Prisoner of War and Miscavige Hole Inmate

Please compare the video posted at KABC TV of Debbie Cook signing her walking papers from Misavige’s Hole with the video of an American POW in a North Vietnamese prison camp.  See any parallels?

269 responses to “Prisoner of War and Miscavige Hole Inmate

  1. Is it me or this guy has an earpiece and gets instructions from someone else?

  2. Blinking “torture” while agreeing to good treatment.

    I find the whole process of making a person agree to things offered by an attorney about “good treatment” before signing an agreement distasteful. Where was Debbie’s legal representation in this process?

  3. Tony DePhillips

    If you look closely you can see that Debbie Cook also blinked in morse code, spelling out “d-m is i-n-s-a-n-e….

  4. That PoW doesn’t look abused and certainly not coerced, guess the claim that they were tortured are untrue. How terribly bitter and vindictive they must be to make such unjust libellous claims; probably looking for a hand out. (I might be being a bit sarcastic)

  5. Well done to ABC for their story!

    As I watched the program I couldn’t help wonder how many days of The Hole that fat ass lawyer could stand before he would be willing to sign anything to escape captivity.

    Separate fat ass from his wife, confirm him 24/7 in a hot trailer with 80 others. Have him sleep on the floor with ants crawling on him. Have him escorted to the bathroom and shower. Feed him the most vile slop for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Slap him to the ground. Put him in a garbage pail for 12 hours at a time with water being dumped over his head, a degrading sign around his neck, cult psychos screaming at him and slapping him. Do all this to him without any hope of escaping, without any end in site. My guess is it wouldn’t take many days at all. Does this guy really need the money so bad that he is willing to work for Miscavige?

    Realize how fortunate Debbie was for the opportunity to escape. There are dozens of top level Scientology “executives” who have been enduring this for over 10 years!!!! They are literally POS’s (Prisioners Of Scientology).

    Gary Morehead reported that when he was the Security Chief for the International base he witnessed Miscavige beat Marc Yager as a daily ritual (at a bamboo hut he made Yager build and live in at the swamp) for weeks. Every ex-Int staff member I have spoken to say that Marc was beat up the most. In Debbie’s testimony she states that the first person she saw assaulted when she got to the Int base was Marc Yager. She stated that Miscavige punch Marc to the face and wrestled him to the ground. How many hundreds of times has Miscavige beat just this one person. Shit, Dave even order a Cine staff member named Sadie to run down Marc with a vehicle. To save himself Marc jumped off a wall and broke his leg.

    There are people held prisoner and suffering with their lives at risk. The FBI knows this and yet they haven’t acted. I’m afraid these prisoners already have been or will be moved to a more secret location or out of the country where they may never be freed.

  6. Wow, Debbie seems like a completely different person in that video. Cowed and crushed are what I see. The relief Debbie shows when she jumps out of the chair to leave is palpable.

    Debbie, if you are reading here, I am so glad you made it out to face that creep head-on. And Marty and Mike … I know many have said it, but thank you thank you for taking a stand and doing what you are doing. And that goes for Steve, Karen, Amy, Jeff and so many others that have been there and are facing this evil bastard.

    You are all real life heros.

  7. Mary Leuchtmann

    I am sitting here at my computer completely stunned at that show Elliot Abelson just put on….that son of a bitch. Trying and successfully making Debbie a nervous wreck. I can’t even imagine what she must have been going through. Then I thought..shit! So many others have gone through this same mental torture. I soooo hope that a class action suit is brought against this maniacal, insane selfish asshole and all the evil, lying lawyers that he bribes daily. Those with the dirty hands just for the cash. How the hell do these assholes sleep at night? Thank god all of this is coming out. What religion needs an 18 page separation/confidentiality agreement ? What bullshit, trying to scare these poor slaves who have done nothing but been tortured the whole time they have worked there. F @#k YOU Miscavige and company….looks like your days area numbered. Power to the SEA ORG! And yes the similarities to the POW video are too creepy. This tyrant and his regime are going down and not a moment too soon.

  8. Both tough to fully confront.

    Debbie’s demeanor reminded me of the abused kid who, under interrogation, knows not where to hide or escape or chill out, and further is either afraid of to tell the truth or just wants the thing over.

    The physical manifestations were remarkable. Hunched, head bobs, arms crossed. Debbie could have been blinking or communicating in some language, but the video intentionally, I’ll bet, does not show a good picture.

  9. Elliot Abelson, practicing attorney, in other words an officer of the court, asking someone to sign away their constitutional rights! Hmm. Anybody see something wrong with that picture? Has he been reported to the state bar/s where he has his license?

  10. It is clear Debbie was not trying to make waves on her way out so she COULD leave.

    I spent WEEKS eating rice & beans for breakfast, lunch and dinner while under 24/7 security watch, intensive sec checks and manual labor. I just wanted out, so finally said, “Yes, yes, everything is just beautiful between me and the church. I will be a good person and you’ll never have to worry about me!” “Oh, and Miscavige is a hero.”

    My stomach turned when I said it, but I prayed those words would help me get released.

  11. Absolutely. Both look like they have endured an horrendous ordeal. The tone level for both appears to be apathy — spiritually they bothseem far, far away from where they are. The parallels are uncanny. Although Debbie is not blinking “torture”, the ugliness that was done to her, the torture, is perceptable in her space.

    Michael Fairman from Joy’s computer

  12. Amy — You are so right, and there are many others who would testify similarly. In the end, I got away knowing I was going to lose my wife, children, mother, brother, sister, nephews and nieces — but I was willing to give up anything to get away from the insanity and not have to go back to the Hole. Debbie testified she was ready to slit her wrists. This is truly the stuff of nightmares, and I don’t know anyone who has been through these sort of experiences that has not subsequently had terrifying nightmares of being back in the Hole (or OGH or the basement of PAC or whereever). This is the first time this testimony has been in a court proceeding. But perhaps more of it will see the light of day into the future.

  13. Michael — thanks for your comment.

    What is especially remarkable about this is that the North Koreans thought the world would believe they had treated those POWs so well. All it did was confirm to everyone not in their bubble just how incredibly, evilly, disgustingly creepy they were.

    Now Miscavige, with his own video, is showing the world how incredibly, evilly, disgustingly creepy HE is.

  14. I don’t know how to describe what I just saw…other than saying the smiles of Mr Ableson, his tone and his almost Hannible Lecter-esq com cycle, belied a certain dolosity that even I would have a hard time trying to get out of my head before bedtime.

    I did notice how at the very end, when Debbie left the table, she almost jumped up fast enough to leave her shoes behind.

  15. +1 Amy. Very clear.

    And same here – months eating rice & beans, under watch, sitting in a tiny room everyday with no windows at the HGB in LA next to Security waiting to be ALLOWED to leave and I signed everything, agreed to everything, on video with an attorney and church rep, while crying, and promised to be a “good girl” so I could get he hell OUT.

    Survival mode was on, and Debbie had to get out the only way she knew how.

  16. Where is the bright and joyful being seen in Debbie’s other church videos? If she were not under duress wouldn’t she be casually conversational and pleased about the 50 grand? Instead we see a an intimidated being, careful to say the right things and physically very rigid, warily answering all the questions correctly. Who does this fool except those that are mind numbed?

    Abelson’s amends project continues expand as he seduces the almighty dollar for the price of his soul. Talk about the wrong thing to do. Soaring to new depths beyond even those of Miscavige who merely dramatizes his evil impulses. Abelson feeds on the remains, thankful for his bounty. The man is repugnant.

  17. I have a recurring nightmare that somehow I’m back at the Int base, usually doing a stat evolution with WDC and I don’t have a uniform and no place to go to the bathroom or take a shower. In one of my dreams, you were there letting me know the way out again. Wish I could just dream about winning the lottery or something fun like that!

    I’m very proud of Debbie, and you and so many others who mustered up the courage to not only leave, but to expose the criminality.

    I sure hope to see justice take place.

  18. I cringed when Elliot Abelson referred to David Miscavige as “The Boss”.

  19. Question: If Elliot Abelson’s comment about David Miscavige being so thankful for her service to the ‘Church’ then why wasn’t the little guy present at this little signature party, shaking Debbie’s hand and wishing her all the best?

  20. Elliot Abelson, staunch defender of pornographers – showbiz indeed! Slimey 1.1 guy making mega bucks and loving it.
    And why is it he has to ask so specifically all these questions? Because everything he brings up are culpable issues he KNOWS she’s had trouble with. Everything he gets her to agree with are crimes that have been committed against her.
    Nondisclosure agreements don’t say we don’t want you to talk about us torturing you. They don’t say we did everything wonderful for you but you can’t talk about it. Why does he have to say you will be able to contact family? Every point is a cover your ass ploy for a crime against her.
    It’s really sad to see Debbie in propitiation like that.
    I’m just so glad she got out!

  21. A couple of interesting things to note in the church response:

    1. They now refuse to cooperate with any media, and there are no spokespeople left at all, its down to Karin Pouw’s signature placed on “responses” written by Miscavige.

    2. The “spin” is looking more and more like “spin bin” as the statements become increasingly non-sequitur. Just check out these two gems: “The Church demanded such covenants from Cook for good and sufficient reason: Cook in the past had made similar false and misleading statements and the Church feared that she would do so again.” They are now trying to claim that “Cook” had made “false and misleading statements” before she even left the SO and this is why she was made to sign the agreement. I guess then that every SO member is also a liar as they all have to sign similar agreements every YEAR whether they are leaving or not. There isnt anyone who has been tricked into returning to “route out” that hasn’t signed an agreement like this and Elliot Abelson has been sent around the world as the clown to perform the charade.

    And how about this one, right from the quivering lips of Dear Leader hisself:
    “Using the court to disparage dedicated Church officials who are not even part of this matter is yet another example of the bitter hate campaign Ms. Cook is engaged in, much like the apostates she has joined. It is also evident from her testimony that the entire purpose of violating her agreement is to extort the Church for more money.” One kernel of truth shines through here — this is REALLY about “disparaging dedicated Church officials” (should be singular as she ONLY talked about one person) and he just cannot let it go unremarked upon. But then to claim that this is a money-making scheme is a laugh out loud moment. He sued her demanding $300,000 plus and she is “trying to extort money from the church.” Oh my. Dave, you have got to get a grip on yourself. You really are sounding like one of those North Korean guys….

    3. One of DM’s favorite lines he tells his sycophants is that anyone who has left his little empire is “desperate” to come back. So, he sends a message to us all: “She and her fellow bitter apostates will never enter a Church of Scientology again.” Kind of like Torquemada announcing that he won’t let you back into his dungeon. Not sure how we will avoid the depression that is bound to set in upon hearing this news…. (He is in such an unreal world that he tells his toadies this, they all agree with him, nodding their heads furiously, and so he is now certain of his rightness once again and announces it to the world).

    4. Finally, this non-sequitur requires no comment at all, other than noting it is included. The reason is obvious. Just don’t get why he doesnt put his name… “The ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology religion has dedicated more than 30 years of selfless service for the good of the religion and ten thousand staff and millions of parishioners applaud that service.”

  22. He had his personal representatives overseeing the whole show — of course they were off camera. Betcha he wishes he hadn’t had to be the “big shot” now with his “personal message” from “the Boss”. Landed him right in the middle of the cow pie. Face first.

  23. Bela — It’s one of the best moments on the video. “The Boss” is clearly right in the center of this controversy. What an unfortunate place for him to find himself….

  24. Mat-It is terrifying what you report here-Its unbelievable.

  25. Sweet! 🙂
    Thank you for pointing that out.

  26. I caught that too, Tony! 😉

  27. +1000000000000

  28. That video of Debbie with the Atty was rivetting, although my similar incident of signing my NDA was far less dramatic (I did not take any money). I recall myself nodding my head up and down like Debbie did I just wanted to do sign anything to get the hell out, and this was after I blew and came back for a 6 month “route out cycle” on the RPF. Finally when there was no more guard as I stepped out the door and released- it was the best dialwide FN I had in probably Ten years. Of course I never got a copy of what I signed, not asked for one, I just wanted out.


  29. Mike,

    Labeling someone an “apostate” seems to be SOP for David Miscavige these days.

    It begs the question, If the Church of Scientology is so virtuous, why would someone protest anything the church is doing?

    Miscavige’s answer: The apostates attacking the Church of Scientology are evil and are trying to destroy the church and all of its good works.

    LRH’s answer: Man is basically good.

  30. “The relief Debbie shows when she jumps out of the chair to leave is palpable.”

    I noticed that, too, Margaret. This is really heartbreaking.

  31. Very astute as usual!

    On point 3 I have a feeling that wasn’t written for the media or someone like you or Debbie. It was written for those still on the inside to give them an idea of the full scope of what will happen to them if they get “naughty” with the hopes that being permanently expelled from the Church will be a heavy enough threat to impede further statements from others.

  32. I’d love to see the video of my release signing. It would be like looking at a holocaust survivor just prior to his release from Auschwitz. I was emaciated and destroyed physically and mentally. I also received no copies of the numerous documents I signed.

  33. I hope to see it take place, too, for your sake and Debbie Cook and so many others.

    How many times can this corporation, the Scientology” organization, cry the chicanery “embittered apostate” about person after person after person after person after person after person after person speaking up?…speaking up despite danger to themselves?

    The society owes it to HELP! It’s called social personality … help!!

  34. Haha!! excellent points.

    “They are now trying to claim that “Cook” had made “false and misleading statements” before she even left the SO and this is why she was made to sign the agreement. ”

    Exactly, and video tape themselves handing her a check for $50,000 as “appreciation” for her years of great service! It’s so very obvious she was a dedicated devoted executive, and still is. Not only is Scientology corporate organization lying about Debbie Cook, they are providing their own evidence that catches them in the lie!

  35. Incisive and sharp as a scalpel, Mike!
    The dear ecclesiastical leader David Miscavige simply has to include a twist, reverse of truth and the big lie to it all on the last one. Selfless service, with a whole entourage including the bottle washer behind him and someone carrying his coffee and cigarettes?

  36. OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC have created a new class of enemy: The BDA. The BDA is the Bitter Defrocked Apostate. You can identify a BDA by these characteristics:

    1. They lie about David Miscavige
    2. They claim to have been beaten or otherwise abused by David Miscavige or the Church
    3. They run to media to tell wild and sensational stories
    4. They break contracts with the Church to remain silent
    5. They speak in broad generalities: David Miscavige beats people.
    6. They refuse to do A-E and return to the Church
    7. They refuse to pay Freeloaders bills

    You can clearly see that BDA’s are the enemy. All persons are ordered to have no contact with any BDA. If you spot a BDA please send a KR to OSA immediately. Failure to do so will result in an immediate SP Declare and the loss of one’s Eternity.

  37. Assumed similarities between Debbie and the POW are similar, very similar.

    Excuse me for being flip, but does anyone else see a startling similarity between Ableson and Jabba the Hut?

  38. mark mckinstry

    Isn’t it funny how many “bitter apostates” were directly influenced by David Miscavige. Seems like the longer they worked with him the more “bitter” they became.

    And.. despite the torture, abuse, attempt to ruin financially and in reputation, each continues to support LRH and Scientology. Not a negative word about him or the subject itself.

    If I knew nothing about the subject, I would find that odd.

    The big beautiful buildlings and facade that Miscavige has been hanging his hat on, to show us all how the Church is expanding under his tyranny, has been toppled over like a large rock, and now the earthworms and centipedes are now exposed for all to see.

    I signed the same statement and got my $500. I could have cared less about the money..after waiting for months locked up, one will sign anything to be free from this suppression.

    DM’s days are numbered.

  39. I would welcome Debbie Cook into my home any day! I really like that lady! 🙂 As usual, everyone is a liar, an apostate, a bigot, a contract breacher and ignorant except course – the Church Of Scientology”. 🙂 Will the Church of Scientology ever open its eyes Marty and see that people on Earth are here to be free not listen to their lies? I hope so, because if they don’t it will be very lonely for some people here on Earth for quite some time to come! 🙂

  40. Boy this ABC news story sure riled up the OSA sock puppets. They’re going nuts over there. LRH sure wasn’t kidding about SPs howling when you’re winning! Go Debbie!

  41. LA is the 2nd largest media market in the US…..and as noted, it has the largest population of Scngsts in the US. ABC is owned by Disney…..glad to see their lawyers signed off on this one. Obviously they aren’t afraid of a lawsuit.

    David Miscavige has a crashing MU on the word “Apostate”. The term apostasy is used by sociologists to mean renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, a person’s former religion, in a technical sense and without pejorative connotation.

    Here is another word he should clear: Apoplexy.

  42. Debbie Cook didn’t write anything about confidential matters in her New Years Eve email…
    Miscavige… when will you start using Scientology? Will you?
    I mean look at the incompetence of people around you now.

  43. As a non-scientologist who has followed the Debbie Cook story very closely, I think it could be helpful to give the recent ABC video a much higher profile on this blog. It’s potential educational value extends well beyond comparisons with the other POW video.

  44. Mike, That’s funny. “The Boss” is on his own dwindling spiral, from foot bullets, down to nuclear foot events, down one more level to his personal “cow pie face” events.

  45. In the last 48 hours there was been a scathing media (TV) show from Australia including details on the sadism and brutality and human trafficking of children in the RPF “Rehabilitation Project Force.”
    Then Tony Ortega wrote a masterpiece open letter to Tom Cruise detailing the ABUSE and shocking internal mistreatment and exceptional abuse of power.
    In the same 48 hours ABC TV Los Angeles airs Debbie Cook appearing like a battered and abused housewife even the clip of breaking into tears on having water poured on her for 11 hours….while insults hurled at her.
    Powerful stories and images.
    And how does David Miscavige rebut these images ?

    Bitter defrocked apostates !
    Ecclesiastical discipline !
    She joined a heretical group !

    While the world digests the inner secrets needing to be gagged on video are actual hidden due to extreme felony type abuse and worse, the Church tries to position itself against Roman Catholic priests “defrocked” !”
    “The penance of monks in monasteries !”
    Oh yes, the world buys their very *RELIGIOUS* PR spins.
    We are all born on banana boats and we all just fell off the turnip truck !
    Here is the “Church” response

    Click to access scientology_international_statement_feb_15_2012.pdf

  46. The “Hole” is probably being moved to HV or the PAC basement tonight, under cover of darkness. Riverside LE or Homeland Security should be up in the sky, looking inside those trailers with ultrasound and infrared equipment right now.

  47. George M. White

    Thanks for the great analysis.

    Miscavige says:
    “Cook in the past had made similar false and misleading statements and the Church feared that she would do so again.”

    “the Church feared”? – Mr. Miscavige you should look at your own ‘tone scale’ chart.


  48. Tony DePhillips


  49. Yes. More evidence of the de-facto chain of command.

  50. It just breaks my heart seeing such a beautiful being as Debbie sitting there all intimidated and broken – what an outrage! I am also thinking about and feeling for the many that are still inside “the hole” right at this moment…Current Cof$ member: Wake up from your gleeful oblivion and smell the coffee!!!

  51. Why is an apostate running the corporate ‘church’?

  52. Coincidentally, the following was sent to me this week in a promo email,

    In the FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF DIANETICISTS & SCIENTOLOGISTS, lecture titled “The Uses and Future of Scientology”, LRH says:
    “There’s nothing wrong with loyalty, there’s nothing wrong with honesty. Very strange thing, but in most men’s minds today, they wonder how it is that anybody can see any advantage in honesty or decency—any of these things. It doesn’t pay. One gets it, to be colloquial, in the neck for honesty, decency, fair play. If, in this society today, you go out on the line and you say insistently and continuously, ‘Let’s be honest. Let’s try to carry forward as best we can. Let’s help our fellows and let’s keep going and give the best service we possibly can give to everyone,’ you wouldn’t think that that attitude would be questioned or fought.
    “Too many men know that that sort of an attitude is immediately received by a slap back. People who are low on the Tone Scale are in cruelty and so on. They’re so thirsty, so hungry for admiration, for space, for anything, that they take someone who is acting like that and they chew him up and spit him out if they can. The whole answer to the problem—believe me, the whole answer to the problem is just be too big a mouthful!”

  53. Both Debbie and the POW are in survival mode & saying and doing what they’re “supposed to” in order to go free.

    I watched Debbie’s a couple of times. It’s obvious she’s saying whatever she has to say in order to get the heck out of there. She makes this point clear when she quickly bolts out of the chair headed for the door after coming back in that 2nd time.

    Her true tone level is soooooo much higher than his.

    Yes, she does cry. Scientology means everything to her. At that point, the main question to self would be: “How could something so pure & wonderful digress into a total nightmare?” Not to mention he’s asking her about her area of responsibility at that moment. Her loss is in direct proportion to the size of her zone of responsibility. That is HUGE!

    Mr. Greaseball is something else to watch though. He is clearly the poster child for LRH’s policy on mistakes being made in the vicinity of an SP.

    a. Wayne catches a typo that has to be corrected and initialed by all.
    b. At the start, he addresses her by the wrong name. She corrects him.
    c. He stutters 8 times in the entire video (yes I counted.)
    d. He comm lags 104 (yes. I uuuuuuuuuuuuuh counted those too)
    e. When he thinks he’s finished, he isn’t, he screwed up and has to call her back in again.
    f. He tries to hand her Wayne’s paper work to sign. She corrects him.

    * Watch his face as she goes through and signs each page. People at his tone level have gastro problems or if he does have an earphone on, then he’s being screamed or threatened right then.

    While wrenching and or fiddling with his hands, the biggest and longest comm lags are at the end when he’s indirectly telling her (while struggling for proper verbiage) what the money was “really” about & of course the same type comm lags when he asks her about “the boss”. And he DOES seems mighty proud of himself for that part–must have been an extra bonus or incentive paid for getting that part done….making “the boss” look good is all that matters. Right?

    I don’t particularly like the way he compliments Wayne at the very end of the video (to Debbie.) It seems non-sequitor, fake and more like a covert threat of sorts. I may be wrong, however, it would not surprise me.

  54. Idiot Unableson, Slimedog Millionaire.

  55. That’s a good one!

  56. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hi Marty, I sent you a ‘graphic’ per e-mail of our local
    “copy house,” as another salvo to the cause. Did it
    arrive in usable form?………Kindly ack this… Li’ll bit

  57. The obvious similarity is the brutality behind the facade. Each prisoner being released seemed to assent to everything being dictated (including of course the signed release document). The (gag) attorney himself said she had to be “persuaded” to accept the check (he even asked her to confirm, “You had to be persuaded to accept the check, didn’t you?”). Yes, I’m sure she was persuaded to accept the check the same way she was persuaded to sign the agreement, “Unless you wish to be returned to RPF, you will do exactly as we say, you understand that, don’t you?” It’s tag-team covert hostility: the mediator putting up the facade at the table, masking the brutality she experienced when the cameras were not rolling. What jumps out is her submissiveness. If she hadn’t been terrorized, literally in fear of her life, that jerk would probably never smile again. She was probably trembling the whole time, and he seemed to enjoy that, like the North Korean..

  58. I couldn’t watch this video all the way through. I had to stop. I was so revulsed, sickened profoundly.

    This, coupled with the story of a 6 year in Sydney, Australia and what has become of a group I was so proud at one time in my life to join.

    I am ashamed.

  59. Amy — I agree with you totally.

    For the first 5 years of leaving the SO, I had nightmares at least 2 – 3 times weekly. They were always the same. Nightmares about being held against my will, about not being allowed to leave, about being separated forcefully from my family and from children, and about crazy activities at the Int base involving large groups of people — all acting on orders of DM.

    I don’t have those dreams anymore — and I am thankful.

    I am also very thankful that Debbie and Wayne are out — and I am proud of you, and every other person who has escaped that place — no matter how it was done.

  60. It’s as if there is a parallel universe as to what the church thinks is damning evidence and the rest of the population. The video of Debbie signing the non disclosure agreement is NOT evidence that she entered into it freely. It is evidence that was under duress, if for no other reason then she was being asked by the church’s attorney with the glaring outpoint/omitted being that she did not have independent legal advice.

    Unbelievable an attorney asking someone to waive their CONSTITUTIONAL rights.

    Here is the California Bar ethics number if anyone want to complain about an attorney who should be investigated.


  61. Not too coincidentally Abelson used to be a mob lawyer (Gambino crime family) before working for Miscavige. I guess he likes protecting criminals, and obviously has no moral conscience (kind of like Ken-Dick Moxon).

  62. Does anyone else see the ironic similarity to “Korean POW” and “Karin Pouw”?

  63. One thing for sure – the law sure doesn’t give a hoot about the truth. What a mess made of the liberty of individuals rights. Debbie and Wayne may as well have been at gun point. How in the world would those Scientology lawyers in their office bubbled life ever see nor hear about the what their clients do behind closed doors and razor wired compounds. Ice water must flow through their viens.
    Lawyers – tough act to rationalise.

  64. Mike I just saw the video on Debbie and I can see the only thing she want to do there is to leave asap. She sign the papers so fast. Is unreal but the truth inside the Church.
    Thanks god I just left or other wise can you imagine what will happen with me.

  65. The right thing to do is send the ABC news link to every scientologist you might still have in your address files. Get another email address as scientologists might recognize your email as coming from a BDA (Bitter Defrocked Apostate) … put the subject line as something about ABC news does terrific reporting on the church or something sounding positive

    (it is — but only to those of us in the BDA club)

    I’ve been doing this — no one has responded but no one has responded with “DON”T SEND ME THIS S**T again) — I take that as a good sign.


  66. +1
    Very good analysis, FFT.

    Marty, not to pick nits but Jeremiah Denton was in a North Vietnam prison, not Korea.


  67. Mrinder and Bella,

    I noticed the the Boss comment, too. “We’re talking about David Miscavige” I think Ableson said. This on the heels of the San Antonio attorneys saying we haven’t established any connection between Miscavige and Flag. I guess we have now.

  68. What I find amazing is that the ‘church’ could actually make that video public? Admit it in evidence?

    It just makes them look so f*0%^n creepy…..

    Squirrel Busters look better than Abelson for God’s sake

  69. Stray thought, but after David Miscavige is brought to justice, I would like to see The Hole (or perhaps the entire Int Base) set up as a monument to brutality – people could tour the place, just like they do the former Nazi concentration camps. It would be a sobering but enlightening experience.

    – Ron Matlock

  70. martyrathbun09

    Thanks; corrected.

  71. Good God! I feel so angry that any of you – Debbie, Mike, Marty, Amy, Scott, and so many others – have ever endured such hate and abuse.

    On the plus side, if there can possibly be a plus in all this, it is terrifically gratifying that in Debbie’s and Wayne’s case so much evidence of the abuse done to them has been made visible by Scientology Inc. itself.

    Had the cult not filed this lawsuit against Debbie, her testimony in open court would not have been given and recorded for the world to see. Had the cult not filed all their documents and exhibits with the court and played this video in open court, the media could not have been made the abuse so visible to the world. Had the cult not defended “The Boss” so pathetically in its responses to these stories, the world could not make such a bright connection between Debbie’s and Wayne’s suffering and their tormentor – The Boss, David Miscavige.

    Eliot Abelson, just for a moment, imagine how you’re going to look on videotape when federal prosecutors offer you a plea bargain to roll over on The Boss – and you accept their offer.


  72. Being placed in a position of terror by captors that have total control on your life is hell, those who find a way (any way) to make a stand keep their sanity and self respect, those who make no stand don’t.
    Well done Debbie et al !!

  73. I want to know if someone can answer to me maybe Marty or Mike. I want to know if is possible that Scientology can have the same incident what happen to the Catholic Church with Martin Lutero. Any idea of this?

    Because from my viewpoint is what is going to happen maybe I could be wrong. As you can see the Independent Scientology Groups is getting bigger and bigger with members now all over the globe not just in USA but also in Taiwan.

    Anyway is just what I see in the near future.

  74. I had doubts about Debbie and Wayne because they accepted the 100000 USD to keep quiet. I apologize here. The leaving process is evidently designed by an a-hole.

  75. Yes, Laura Ann! And didn’t the church attorney enter this video in evidence, thus establishing the connection?


    Hello ____
    I want you to know that the LRH Birthday event is specifically
    designed so that you can bring all your friends, family, selectees,
    neighbors, colleagues etc. to the event.
    You will see an exclusive Source presentation showing the
    legendary life of LRH. You will get a whole new view of LRH and an
    insight into his life!

    This will be the grand finale of LRH’s centennial year, with
    expansion that has reached unheard-of heights! You’ll also get to
    enjoy birthday cake and live entertainment by renowned artists, have
    time to meet new and old friends and much more!

    The game is on: Bring 5 others to the event and you will receive a special surprise and a commendation! Report your names to me as soon as you have them, so you’ll be the first to win!

    With ARC
    Corine Chiquet

  77. Mike

    This actually makes the connection of “the boss” and Debbie, something the CSI lawyers were adamantly claiming did not exist, during last weeks proceedings!!!

    Another foot nuke!!!

    “….time and pressure….”

  78. LOL! I think you hit that on the nail!

  79. I didn’t even go through a fraction of a percent of what Debbie went through, and I was willing to sign anything to leave the Sea Org and get on with my life, I’m not sure what mine said, but I do remember it contained a bunch of data, that wasn’t necessarily true, but I didn’t care, the only thing keeping me from getting my car keys so I could leave and get on my life was signing those forms. It’s appalling how the church is treating Debbie, and all she tried to do is get their members to do their bridge instead of donating themselves into insurmountable debt which is not covered in any policy. I am glad KABC has reported on this, as more people are going to get her story now, and hopefully more public Scientologists wake up, and realize the church is in a serious danger condition, and they need to apply the correct formula for that condition.

  80. With the publishing of this video it is clear for everybody to see that Abelson stressed the point that David Miscavige is “THE BOSS”.
    Yes, David Miscavige is “THE BOSS” of what is going on behind the shiny facade of the “Church of Scientology”, that´s right.

  81. Jim

    There have been many occasions over the past few years that I have felt the exact same way – ashamed to have been part of it.

    When I think of the blood, sweat and tears I poured into the endeavor “believing I was on a greater path”. It is bitterly twisted, actually.

    I feel ya, man. I feel ya.

    “….time and pressure…”

  82. Brian I am going to disgree with you. I think you`re wrong. I don`t think that looks creepy at all. I don`t think David Miscavige is a Tyrant. I don`t think this duschebag lawyer looks like Jaba de Hut. I don`t think the Church of $cientology has anything wrong with demanding millions of dollars off parisioners to pursue “Bitter Apostates” and for creating magnificent castles that look beautiful even though they are empy so that David Miscavige can say: “see what I did?” I dont see ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT AT ALL.

  83. From the CSI statement:

    “Both Ms. Cook and her husband
    are expelled from the Church, are
    prohibited from calling themselves
    Scientologists … “

    Religious freedom?

  84. This video “documenting” no coercion is a f#@$in joke and clearly brings to light one of the barriers and traps that OSA has become the victim of.

    The video omits to reveal and can never document what is going on in one’s universe as they sign something. That is the sad truth. It’s not what you know; it’s what you can prove. So the video proves Debbie and Wayne signed. It doesn’t show the shit they lived through to get to that point – and believe it that they are lucky they got that FAR!!! Nor does it show the HCO/Security guards standing outside the door during this “meeting”. But again one can’t prove that now can you.

    The thing I don’t understand is why the one sidedness is never attacked. Wayne and Debbie didn’t get to video the signing with their equipment, and keep a copy for their records. Why is the issue of being denied access to legal advice not brought up? Debbie and Wayne and thousands of others are told to sign these waivers without the right to have someone advise them of what they are signing. That fat f@#$ works for, answers to and is responsible to CSI or RTC or CST – and no one else.

    The joke is one thinks they are dealing with a group one can trust and one IS NOT. That group is full bent on protecting its ass and does not have any other agenda. It cares not what happens to a 30 year veteran staff member. While Wayne and Debbie are being busied with the explanation of the legalese, “the machine” has moved on, four targets down the Battle Plan. What LRH states in KSW #1 about the tigers is alive and well within the confines of CSI/ASI/RTC/CST, etc. etc.

    The trap, referred to above, that OSA falls into??? Relying on MEST for survival. It breeds more solid, MEST. Good luck with that.

    “…time and pressure…”

  85. Andy,

    Debbie and Wayne never got to put on any defense — so the issues you bring up here didnt see the light of day. The CHURCH put Debbie on the stand as the plaintiff. Before she could even complete testifying, they withdrew. Be sure there is a lot more evidence to be brought forth in this case should it continue.

  86. I’ve been through the reverse sec-checking, reverse auditing, intended to break you and introvert you; I was forced into signing similar papers at OSA Int and HCO Int while fearful for my “salvation” (as True and Rule put it), for my Bridge, for my life, and while crying like a basket-case. While I wasn’t privy to beatings at Int base, I can certainly attest to the truth of Debbie’s testimony regarding the enforced signing of release papers under duress. It’s a mockery of all that is sane.

    It brings to mind that old Chech and Chong skit: “Why will you not sign ze papers!?” “Because, … you have broken both of my hands.”

  87. Delusional bubble…. It’s the world they try to convince the sheeple exists. THere is NO Scientology outside the RCS. They have to keep this facade up otherwise nobody would stand for the sort of abuse they have become so accustomed to (I don’t mean the Hole, I mean the Vulture Culture).

  88. Marty: This chilling juxtaposition of two worlds seemingly so different and yet so utterly similar in their intent causes me to deepen my conviction that Scientology MUST be taken back, dm deposed and somehow incrementally the tech restored.

    I would like to add a further comment to those already expressing their horror:

    No one went to North Vietnam (during the Vietnam war and crisis) THINKING they were going to get spiritual enlightenment and gain.

    Thus — what dm has done is ACTUALLY worse – far worse.

    He has taken a budding wisdom tradition – Scientology – and calculatedly worked to destroy its workability, its intention and its community.

    I’m going to quote from one of my favorite books:

    “Rebel Buddha on the Road to Freedom” by Dzogchen Ponlop

    I’m going to insert the word Scientology in parentheses wherever the word Buddhism appears.

    Keep in mind that Buddhism is 2,600 years old. Scientology a mere 62 years old …

    “How do we preserve a wisdom lineage? Its wisdom must be passed from generation to generation. But there’s a difference in preserving a tradition and institutionalizing it. We can fill museums with Buddhist (Scientology) artifacts; we can translate and reproduce texts of past masters and fill the libraries of the worth with them: we can document the rituals and codes of its culture. Then no one will be in danger of forgetting Buddhism (Scientology). It will live on as a fascinating relic, like so many other lost civilizations. On the other hand, we can preserve the wisdom that imbues this tradition by studying and practicing it to the point where we wake up.”

    “My advice in this regard is to examine all your teachers and accept whoever possesses the qualities of wisdom, compassion, and skill, REGARDLESS WHERE THEY COME FROM (capitals are mine).

    “There seems to be no shortage of charlatans in any spiritual scene. It’s important for students to distinguish between such pretenders and genuine teachers and to always follow a genuine holder of the Buddha’s (Scientology) lineage.”

    And in closing, let me say to Jim Logan — no need to be ashamed – YOU are the new face of Scientology. To Marty, Mike, Karen #1 others who WORKED directly with LRH and everyone else who clearly embodies what LRH intended with Scientology, it is truly in your hands to bring this young wisdom tradition firmly into the world.

    Those who TRULY understand LRH and the tech, who understand it deeply and can then carry it forward in MODERN times — revolutionizing it – are tasked with never losing heart, always knowing that a living tradition must never become static, it must have a sense of freshness otherwise we lose our basic heart connection with the spiritual journey.

    (as someone who didn’t “get” scientology really at a core level when I was involved – I am thrilled beyond belief to discover so many here who did — and thus my path now fully has become a Scientology Buddhist –
    as a buddhist friend of mine said — OMG — you are a very different breed 🙂 — I decided to take that as a compliment.


  89. The contradictions between Karin Pouw’s statements and the comments of the Lawyer present for Debbie’s signing are amazing.

    Pouw: Debbie has made, and threatened, false statements in the past.

    Lawyer: (On behalf of the Church) is impressed and appreciative that Debbie NEVER made any demands, or threats whatsoever – never asked for anything.

    Pouw: Debbie was expelled

    Lawyer: Classified her leave as a Medical Leave Of Absence

    Pouw: Debbie is attempting to extort “more” money.

    Lawyer: Debbie never asked for ANY money and had to be talked into excepting it.

    Pouw: Debbie is trying to defame Officials (DM) who have NOTHING to do with the matter..

    Lawyer: Wants Debbie’s view of how awesome “The Boss” is put on record.

    Pouw: Debbie was asked(made) to sign this agreement “for good reason and to protect the Church”

    Lawyer: The Church’s compensation “housing, money, work….” is offered as help and in deep GRATITUDE for her years of service

    The Lawyer, then contradicts himself, by forwarding the Church’s offer of continued help, if and when she needs it, but then caps the statement off with “Hopefully this is a continued non-relationship relationship.

  90. Rachel — Yes, the church put in this video. It was not lost on the judge (or anyone else in the courtroom) that the FIRST thing the church did was complain about the subpoena that had been sent to them, demanding the videos and other documents and the church lawyer stood up and cried “it’s not fair, we didn’t have time to find all these things and get them all the way from Florida….” Debbie’s attorney made the point to the court that they have the stuff right in their briefcases, and next thing you know, they are playing the very video they said they couldn’t possibly find and get to Texas. The Keystone Kops are a precision drill compared to this display of legal ineptitude.

  91. The “spin” is looking more and more like “spin bin” as the statements become increasingly non-sequitur. Just check out these two gems: “The Church demanded such covenants from Cook for good and sufficient reason: Cook in the past had made similar false and misleading statements and the Church feared that she would do so again.”

    I can just see these horrible false and misleading statements:

    Knowledge Report

    I personally witnessed David Miscavige on ___day____month___year
    beating the crap out of __________ victim. The victim refused to convince his wife to get an abortion and Miscavige started to slap him.
    This is off-policy.

    This is true

    Debbie Cook

    No wonder she was in so much trouble.

  92. I understand Debbie fully , only those who are being under such presure will understand what mean fight for your life and freedom… I was on a position that I will sign anything!!!! and I mean ANYTHING!!!!! to get out of there… and as her I also considere to cut my wrist…crazy yes!!!…..but that’s the kind of presure you are on…and isnt’ only the First Amendament you renounce, I had to agree that never will go back to Florida, Clearwater area… such a BS… and believe me I left Clearwater…. and they scorted me to see I was leaving…. … they even bring me son the day I was leaving so he could said good bye mom…. yeah sure they don’t destroy families….they do….
    but when you DPTS from them and regain your Freedom and ability to think ….. then you said to hell with them!!!! and I went back to Florida and recover my family( on this I was lucky) but the damage done to them, will always be there..
    We are FREE and HAPPY!!! and thanks to Marty and Mike that became a big reality……
    Hope others have the courage to leave and enjoy Freedom…AGAIN!!

  93. About 2years back 2 American journalists were put in a N. Korean gulag
    and someone who had experienced such a “re-education” center there
    gave an interview what they did and their daily routines. It sounded much
    better than the RPF.
    You have hit the tip of the iceberg, ABC. Keep scratching and you will
    get pay dirt. Like people in the RPF for over 10 years or putting someone
    in who had alzheimers. And LA taxpayers shelling out 1 million $$ a year
    to subsidize the church irresponsibility on PAC medical lines (2004). N/g
    new but disgusting all the same.
    I for one would like to be a proud Scientologist. OSA, OSA OSA…please
    do something! Hi, I just had an epiphany; do what Ron says!

  94. The Lawyers statements, when added to the NDA, are a kind of sick representation of the truth,

    “Thanks for your decades of service; We are here to help if you need it. Now, get out town and stay away from the Church and by they way, if you ever open your mouth about anything you have seen we will do everything in our power to ruin your life. Good luck. ”

    Yep, that sums up the Sea Org experience.

  95. Random Stranger


    DM: “Bend her finger back.”

    Lackey: (Bends Debbie’s finger back hard)

    Debbie: “Aaaaaaaaah! Oooowwwww!”

    DM: “Ok, you were never mistreated, right?”

    Debbie: “Well…”

    DM: “Break it!”

    Lackey: (Bends finger back harder)

    Debbie: “Ok ok ok ok ok, ow, yes, YES! I WAS NEVER MISTREATED!”

    DM: “Ever here and not by me and you never saw anything, right?”

    Debbie: (comm lag)

    DM: (nods towards lackey)

    Lackey: (pulls out bamboo shoots and looks at Debbie’s fingernails)

    Debbie: “Correct correct correct. I never saw you punch Yager in the face. I didn’t see that guy licking the bathroom floor. There is no hole. No one in it. You never made Heber wear his underwear on his head. I definitely did not stand in the trash can for 12 hours. It was only 11 and we were just playing. You’ve been wonderful, really wonderful. It’s like a resort here. Lots of sleep, great food for everyone. We all adore you.”

    DM to Lackey: “You can let go of her finger now. And put those bamboo shoots away. Call security and tell them I don’t need the cattle prod I asked for and they can let Wayne out of the cage.”

    DM to Debbie: “Ok, you can go see Abelson now. Don’t ever come back.”

    Debbie: “Thank you.”

    DM: (spins around in his chair and hits the unmute button on his stereo system which plays ‘Another One Bites The Dust’ by Queen as he whispers into his camouflaged collar microphone to Elliot.)

    DM to Elliot: “Pie Face, Abe, I want Pie Face on the video or she doesn’t leave, GOT IT??! She’d better be thankful or else! We’re tight on those Shuttup Clauses, right?”

    Elliot to DM: (presses finger to hidden ear piece) “Yessir, tight as a drum, Sir, legally chained, shackled, muzzled, in a vise, screwed down, roped up, tighter than a Sea Org member being shoved down a toilet with a plunger, Sir!”

    DM to Elliot: “Nice. Now let’s get her stinking carcass to hell out of my organization.”

    Elliot: “I’ll have her leave out the back when I’m done. The guards are on her if there’s any trouble.”

    DM: “Just text me the codeword ‘Trash’ when it’s all signed, sealed and delivered and her smell is gone. Get busy.” (click)

  96. Centurian, What is dolosity? shows no results.

  97. Margaret, completely agree. As for these so called attorney’s for the church they should have their licenses taken away. Abelson is perhaps the most unethical and unresponsible representation of the legal field that I have ever seen.

  98. That is precious!

  99. I was glad to see Abelson admit to the Church interfering with family members being in communication with each other; His dictate to Debbie, having her agree to have “limitted contact with them” makes that point clear.

  100. Scooter
    Where we kept you was quite similar to Auschwitz. It had an oven for incinerating body parts (It was part of the old hospital). I too, barely made it out alive, as you know. They didn’t get me to sign anything when I left. They figured that “Dead men tell no tales”. Well wrong again Dave.
    I am concerned that when Dave and his cronies find themselves surrounded by the armies and they realize that there is no escape that he will want to get rid of the wittnesses to his crimes, as the Nazis did. What are we going to do to get thse people out of the hole before it is too late for them?

  101. Amy, you, Mike, Marty, Christie, Debbie, Wayne, Hy, Matt, Mark and Claire…..all of you are heros. You were all there to help create sanity on this planet and I also along with so many wanted and worked for that. In the end we will win!

  102. Can you say “Sanctimonious Hypocrite”? Right per LRH policy on Black PR.

  103. dolosity – (obsolete, rare) deceitfulness, hidden malice

  104. Das ist sehr gut idea! Then we can bring back the sign at the gate that says” Arbight machs frei ” ‘And work will set you free ” (for all of you apostates who have forgotten the sacred language of the cult.)

  105. “The Keystone Kops are a precision drill compared to this display of legal ineptitude.” LOL

  106. “Dolosity is said to mean deceitfulness or hidden malice.”

  107. Thank you!

  108. This is brilliant, Don! What a comedy of errors!

  109. Windhorse, very nice post!

  110. This was supposed to go to Don above

  111. On your comment that DM believes everyone who leaves desperately wants to return, where he says, “She and her fellow bitter apostates will never enter a Church of Scientology again.”

    This sounds like what a bunch of 8-year-olds say to each other when they gang up and kick one of the kids out of the treehouse headquarters of the Super-Duper Secret Bestest Winners Club Ever — boy, won’t little Debbie be sorry that we’ll never let her back into our extra special clubhouse ever!

    This suggests the maturity level of the person at the top who is so consumed by using disconnection — kids that age think that membership in a secret, exclusive group is all-important, so there’s a huge rush of excitement at the power of excluding somebody from the group. Those excluded will feel even more anguish than being picked last on the playground when choosing sides for dodgeball. Over time, as people become a little more grown up and as their worlds become a little bigger than the world of the typical 8-year-old, the power of excluding somebody from a group is less interesting. Insanity and incalculable pain results when a bunch of grown-ups act like a bunch of little kids.

    The RCS is run by 8-year-olds instead of by grown-ups. And Little Davey is probably indulging his revenge fantasies against all those who picked him last for dodgeball.

  112. I had to sign an affidavit on video too, in order to leave. At the point I was a POW. I know Debbie was too. She was waxing to get out the door. My affidavit basically said that I was responsible for anything bad that ever happened to the Church, I ripped the church off and tried to drive it broke, I tried to make the Church less powerful and so on. It was here that I decided I no longer wanted to be part of this organization. If my time on staff amounted to these allegations in the eyes of the Church then I was on the wrong team.

    You know, I was in the Army. I went through combat in a war. Then I worked under wild to hurrendous conditions in the Sea Org as a lot of us have and most of the time you don’t mind because I for one treated all of that crap as “Helping Ron Clear The Planet – Bullbaited”. And a lot of us did the same. But the hole and the musical chairs and the rest of the DM fantasies of being a Don pushed it over the top. And once it got over the top it spilled in the streets for the rest of the world to see. Now it is going to be payback time to the little pimple with a big head.


  113. Interesting how Karin Pouw stated that they had Debbie sign the contract on video because Debbie had previously made derogatory comments against the church of scientology yet in the video Elliot says how the money was in consideration for the excellent services she’d provided.

    What ever else this video shows it’s hardly a defrocking as Karin Pouw also asserts in her comment about Debbie and her husband being defrocked apostates.

  114. In reference to Jeremiah Denton, if my memory serves me correctly, wasn’t he a Texan also?

  115. Random Stranger


  116. The Happy Valley property is back in the possession of the Soboba tribe and has been repurposed by them into part of their resort facilities, so The Hole is not going there. 🙂

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  117. Correction, Kris – the church is not in a “serious danger condition” – it is (and has been for years now) in TREASON at a minimum and, in recent months, appears to have slipped even lower into CONFUSION, based on the increasing number of foot-nukes we are witnessing.

    Treason and Confusion to LRH, to all those who contributed so much of their lives to further his noble goals, and to this planet which is in such obvious need of his wonderful technology.

  118. Several of the OSA-bots are commenting on the ABC News site that Debbie has gained so much weight and she used to be so much thinner, yeah…that happens when you’re not on rice and beans/gruel diet! Maybe that’s a new approach they could use…”Lose weight now! Ask me How! See the RPF near you for details!”

    Do they have to turn in their critical thinking or just their dignity to be OSA?

  119. What continues to be remarkable about the Church’s response is that “All of this expansion is date coincident with the removal of Ms. Cook and a few other select individuals that make up their posse of apostates”. I guess Marty and Mike and Debbie et al were the correct ‘Whys’ and now the Church can expand its real estate like never before!

    Here is what LRH says in Data Series 41RA: Evaluation:The Situation: “Now any time you find thirty people on staff being removed because they were suppressive, you know they had the wrong Why, because the percentages are wrong. It’s just as mathematical as that. If they’ve done that then I can also assure you they’ve left the suppressive on the staff and I can also assure you the guy that did it was suppressive.”

    Tom Price

  120. Well, that was so masterful and brave of them to present their response in a .pdf that cannot be commented on.

    What craven cowards they are to stop communication.

    I like Miscavige’s explanation that someone who WANTED to leave was “defrocked”. What a crazy “explanation”. The man is a computing psychotic, pure and simple.

    It’s funny, I’m re-reading Mission Earth for giggles and grins only because the correlation is so spot on.

    Sometimes I wonder if that satire wasn’t one last prediction …

  121. Literally hundreds of people have been through the David Miscavige torture mill. Thank god the brave ones are speaking out to bring justice despite a lethargic and apathetic and flat-out lazy law enforcement system (FBI) that refuses to wear their hats (i.e. corrupt) and act to protect people until we have spelled out every painful detail as to what is going on.

    I was also confined to the Int base numerous times, usually for months at a time.

    In 1995 I was incarcerated at the Int base and forced to sleep in a trailer behind the Old Gilman House. I told the MAA who happened to be John Peeler that this was a prison and that I was being kept there against my will and I kicked over a bunch of boxes on Building 36 loading dock to make the point. He did his best to calm me down, but there was nothing he could do.

    One night in 2001 after being confined to the Int base I was left to sleep in a filthy trailer up by the swamp with security standing outside all night. I got up there about 4 am, feeling my way in the darkness, laid down in the only bunk available on dirty sheets already there — who knows who had already slept on them. I tried to go to sleep, dead tired from continual sleep deprivation. Couldn’t. Then I realized why — ants fanning out, crawling all over me in the dark.

    I jumped up, brushing off the ants. Got dressed again. Went back down to the Cine Castle and slept in my office where at least there were no ants.

    Dan Zimmatore and I slept in our offices so much he figured out the most comfortable way — put three chairs in a row and sleep astride all three. It was better than the floor.

    When I routed out in 2004, I signed all the same documents on video with a greasy, sweating lawyer pretending to make horrible small talk. Like the POW on video I stated the Church and particularly David Miscavige did nothing wrong, bla, bla, bla (lies). Who at the Int base didn’t know about Annie Tidman being incarcerated for two years? Or Mark Yager for two years? Or Bitty Miscavige for two years? Or Mo? Hell, there was ALWAYS people in Miscavige’s jail — sometimes from the Int base, sometimes from CST or ASI — mostly people who had tried to blow but were CAUGHT. People say, “Why don’t you just leave?” Yeah, the penalty included incarceration against your will, years of Black Dianetics, plus never seeing your spouse again.

    ONE FALSE MOVE during one of those videos and the entire procedure would have been stopped. Any fool knew that. So of course we’re going to say anything just to get out of there.

    I would wish Elliot Abelson to go straight to hell. But he’s already there. Just knowing what he did.

    It’s amazing that Marty found this video of the soldier pretending all is well while blinking the word TORTURE because that is what we went through.

    I would gladly drop everything to testify.

  122. Those with actual knowledge of the original DM coup, no matter how well intended, need to do whatever possible to undo it, in light of the catastrophe it has been over the past 26 years.

  123. Tony DePhillips

    Nice reference.

  124. For Debbie Cook and all of us bitter, defrocked apostates (LOL), and all of those afraid to leave the Church of David Miscavige and to those still in The Hole:

    From L. Ron Hubbard’s lecture DECISION, 20 May 1952: (Fair use)

    “The power of decision is actually the power of sanity. And just as you can run away and then become afraid, as well as become afraid and run away (it works both ways, you see: you can become afraid and then run away or you can just run away and by the action of running away become afraid, because you’re dramatizing being afraid, so you will agreeably become emotionally afraid), so it can work that simply by being decisive, you come way up Tone Scale. You just artificially get decisive. You come up Tone Scale. In other words, don’t look at this now as “The only method of being decisive is to come up Tone Scale and then be decisive.” No there’s another method. And that is: get decisive and come up Tone Scale.

    If you just mercilessly search out of your life, in the actions and the common actions of your life, all the maybes on a decision level, and if you suddenly assert your decisions where you have withheld decisions, I can guarantee you that your life will smooth out pretty well. If you do that in a big office, for instance, where’s there’s a big staff, it may very well be that by asserting your decisions they fire you straight out the door. That’s where you belong, then. You’re a lot better off outside that door. If this environment has smothered your power of decision, you don’t belong in it. Most of the indecision which you will meet in life is strictly based around choice of environment and the ability to exert decision in that environment.

    There is a therapy, all by itself, of placing a person in another environment: environmental therapy. Merely by changing the environment you bring the tone up of the preclear. If you’ve seen a preclear in somebody’s home — this preclear is in somebody’s house and his power of decision is being nullified continually in this house – by moving him to another house you will bring him up Tone Scale to a point where he’ll run much better.”

    Tone Scale: A scale of various emotional tones ranging from the highest to the lowest and these are in part, serenity (the highest level), enthusiasm, (as we proceed downward towards the baser affinities), conservatism, boredom, antagonism, anger, covert hostility, fear, grief, apathy. This in Scientology is called the Tone Scale.

    Preclear: a person who, through Scientology processing (counselling) is finding out more about himself and life.

    Much love to all who have made the hard decisions, and to those who are in the process of making these decisions,
    Catherine Von Ach

  125. Lana – hurray that the nightmares stopped for you! That gives me hope! Wishing you the very best with lots of love and respect!

  126. Tony DePhillips

  127. Carol, Yes – we will win because I believe it’s honesty and truth and real care about people that motivates us …. vs greed and hostility and hate.

  128. I’m pretty sure Miscavige is going to sue his own lawyer for damages.
    Maybe even all his incompetent OSA staff. Damn – his throat must be sore from screaming out curse words to describe all the nasty incompetent people on this planet!!!!!

    “Lou – bring me my bottle of scotch you stupid BITCH!!!!!!”

  129. From online: ” ‘Arbeit macht frei’ is a German phrase, literally ‘work makes (one) free,’ meaning ‘work sets you free’ or ‘work liberates’.The slogan is known for having been placed over the entrances to a number of Nazi concentration camps during the Holocaust, including most infamously Auschwitz I, where it was made by prisoners with metalwork skills and erected by order of the Nazis in June 1940.”

    In the first part of Bill’s comment, he says, “That is a good idea!”

  130. Thank you for telling your story. Would love to hear more. Glad you got your freedom, your ability to think and your son BACK! Wonderful!

  131. “Arbeit macht frei !”

    Was written at the entrance of the Holocaust camps !

  132. You’re absolutley right, Pubilus.
    I talked yesterday with my friend and I pointed out the very same points.
    No one needs to fear about being in “doubt” about the group – as the remaining “Group” is – in respect to LRHs vision and objectives – far below.
    When people realize, that all the “Super Programs” invented by “Chancellor” (Canceler?) of the Boards are the opposite to LRHs intends, they will realize they are not wearing their hats any more (“help LRH to…”). It is treason and confusion.
    The way out is the way up.

  133. Mother of Grendel

    In addition to all the astute and thought provoking comments above… it struck me that this is a media outlet in LA is actually covering this! In the past, the LA media has been too afraid of retribution or lawsuits to dare to put out anything negative about the Cof$. For a local TV station to run this story, they must feel pretty confidant that it will be safe for them to do so.

    The walls are tumbling down!

  134. Don,
    AWESOME observation!

  135. Well damn those bitter defrocked apostate lying extortionist heretic squirrels and their damned legal maneuvers!

  136. Sink David Miscavige with his own evidence. I love it.

  137. +1

    And I also appreciate the volume of combined knowledge of those great individuals on this blog. I am amazed every day by your posts and comments. It is because of you, Scientology has any chance to survive at a quaility level where it is still benificial to its aims.


  138. Nice one Elliott. Ought to really bolster any argument you have to make that David Miscavige is not the Managing Agent of CSI, CSFSO, et al.

  139. Agreed! Don’t think DM acts alone. Any idea what secret service dupe he is?

  140. Funny you should say that. I was getting that flow off of him (mob) and was going to research it to see if I was right.

  141. Yes,

    Tom put the definition for you. The word is obsolete, like DM, and also showed no results, also like DM – case-wise.

    There is a method to my madness.

  142. Well, as soon as the court denies the inevitable motion for a protective order to preclude the deposition of David Miscavige, the Church will dismiss with all due alacrity.

  143. Oh hey, remember when all those Catholic parishoners accused their priests of molestation, how the Catholic Church called all those parishioners heretics and criminals, and had the priests talk to the press about what those parishoners had disclosed in Confession, and then all the parishoners got ex-communicated and harassed by PIs, and the Church said all those parishioners were just colluding with each other and making up stories to bring down the Church because they were bitter, and the Church didn’t even want them as Parishoners anyway? You guys don’t all remember that?? Yeah, me neither.

  144. Moving Forward

    The video is particularly interesting (read: appalling) because the Church probably views it as showing Debbie leaving the Church on ‘good terms’ and whatnot, but to anyone outside of that strange bubble, it shows a person who is clearly very upset, is tense and who has been cowed. Additionally, it shows an extremely controlling environment. There are a few things that really stood out to me:

    1) Abelson makes reference, right after saying that she has agreed to ‘not interfere with the church’s growth’ says that she will also not ‘talk about any of the confidential matters that have come to her attention’. Any reasonable person’s next thought would likely be something like, “What confidential matters are they so afraid of her talking about that would interfere with the church’s growth?”

    2) Abelson, in talking to her about what she will do next (which, in itself is strange) said: “You have family between you and your husband who are Scientologists — there will be minimum (minimal?) contact.” Certainly for anyone outside the church, that would cause a gigantic WHAT???!!!!

    3) Abelson is trying to show that the church has been treating her well and asks if she has had enough sleep, and he said that it’s “probably much more than you ever had on post”. Since earlier in the video Debbie states that she has had a physical condition for 8 years, therefore including while she was on post, even the church’s attorney is openly admitting that she really wasn’t given proper treatment by the church because she would never have previously gotten much sleep.

    4) The document signing goes on for endless pages. It really makes the church look like it has a whole lot to hide.

    5) Abelson again makes reference to confidential matters, this time saying ‘strict confidential’ matters and says that it is in not only the church’s best interests for her to not talk about such matters, but in her best interest as well. Oh really?

    5) Debbie’s manner is entirely opposed to Abelson’s. He is clearly trying to make ‘light’ of it, making a few jokes and personal references, whereas Debbie barely moves, is tense, does not say much of anything other than ‘yes’.

  145. Moving Forward

    I didn’t go through anything like what Lana, Amy and others here did when I left the SO, but after a decade I *still* have occasional nightmares that I am back or of leaving, mostly revolving around the idea of what a terrible person I am for “betraying everyone” and leaving. I hate those dreams, I wake up feeling emotionally battered.

  146. wow…I am speechless once again…

  147. Good points. The biggest “what” of all is: WHAT “church” does this? What “church” has an ex-mob attorney sit with you to sign a stack of papers just because you aren’t going to work for them any longer? Any jury would be left wondering if Debbie was leaving a church or an organized crime syndicate.

    Have to love the fact that DM turned this tape over. It’s almost like he’s begging to be indicted. When you look at his recent actions from suing Debbie to what happened in court to turning this tape over, I can’t come to any other conclusion. DM is asking society to put his ethics in.
    Note to Feds: please give this little man what he wants.

  148. I remember seeing a red tee-shirt with a yellow image of the golden arches made of barbed wire, with “Arbeit macht Fries”. I thought it was kind of cute except there is some truth behind what McDonalds does to keep costs down. It also makes me hungry for some Pomme Frites, except that I really go tor Five Guys.

  149. The KABC video about the San Antonio case is showing on their website at #1 most watched video.

  150. dm is still getting even for not being named as a Loyal Officer by LRH

  151. Theo Sismanides

    Amy, i am so disgusted and angry about all those good execs like you and many others who were/are punished by this maniac. Everything comes out now! This is a turning page in Scientology…. thanks for being here!

  152. Li'll bit of stuff

    Marty, TR-3 on the above? PLEASE ADVISE thanks.

  153. +1 🙂 🙂 🙂

  154. Steve,
    I would like to add something to your post.

    One action which was put in during David Miscavige’s reign was a weekly meter check, right after staff meeting on Fridays. It was not something done under LRH’s time.

    There was a period of time in the late 90’s where guys who flunked their mandatory weekly HCO meter checks would end up restricted and at OGH doing O/W write ups and conditions and god knows what. It was rough when the ever popular Pastry chef who made all the bread and desserts was gone for over a month and his post had to be “covered”. There used to be 20-30 people at the OGH area in this period of time and just added to the pile of growing questioning incidents, not to be spoken or shared with others unless you wanted to go there yourself, as in a Stasi/Gestapo-like environment.

  155. Well, yes. I understand their viewpoint. But do they really want to prohibit others to call themselfs Scientologists?
    What about basic human rights to choose his own religion?
    What about the Creed of the Church of Scientology?

    I mean, how does in work in a case (in court)?
    I don’t think anyone can prohibit me from calling myself “_____ (religion)” if it is what I believe?

  156. Not to absolve Ableson but doesn’t he have plausible deniability? Was he there when Debbie was abused, didn’t she only get to see him at the end of the “process”?

    Not saying he wasn’t aware, the questions he asked of Debbie were quite telling, while they could have been feed to him (I’m sure he’d say so) you’d think a smart man like him would figure it out – a man smart enough to play dumb.

  157. Journey Continued

    Mike this is so disgusting and inhumane.

    Before I left the last time, I was taken down to a cage under Big Blue and told I was being sent to the RPF. But in order to go into the RPF I would first have to sign a release stating that I agreed to it —- I said that there is no way that I would sign anything. Oh they brought in family and close friends to try and convince me, brought in senior execs etc, but all to no avail. So for me it was just the long route out. Of course during this time I was shunned by everyone as a DB and life became uncomfortable.

    But uncomfortable as I was, what I went through was just a walk in the park on a beautiful spring evening compared to the hole. Being forcibly kidnapped, put into inhumane living conditions, starved, tortured both physically and psychologically, with no hope of any change in the future.

    DM is a psychopath, a tyrant of the worst ilk and I do hope that everything that is being done to expose him bears fruit. I also hope that the Church of Scientology et al are forced to recompense each and every staff member that spent any time in the hole to the order of multi-million dollar payouts each under court order – not just a pay out by the church to silence someone. I am not saying that this should be anyones purpose in pursing the church or DM as I know how that just provides fodder for their PR position, but rather that it is fair an equitable given the torture that they were forced to undergo.

    I realise that exposing the truth and removing the tyrant is and will continue to be far more important than any financial recompense.

    Fighting the PR battle with RCS is valuable, but it is through the courts that this tyrant will be brought to heel. This legal action by RCS against Debbie and Wayne is just such a perfect venue to expose DM for the tyrant he is and get the specifics of what he has done on the record for the whole world to see. VWD to you all.

    Unfortunately I think the church will file for a Summary Judgment which will be refused at which point I think that the church will drop the case. If this is happens, then hopefully each of those execs who are out and have had anything to do with the hole or witnessed or participated in any of this kind of abuse will file a suite against RCS and DM. I am sure that there are enough decent people around who would be more than willing to contribute toward that end.

  158. Being defrocked kinda flies in the face of the medical leave (confidential, we won’t tell anyone) mentioned by Ableson in the video.

    Surely grounds for a defamation suit against the church of scientology, given this would be part of the stuff they’ve being telling the Cook’s scientology friends to stop them going to their business.

  159. martyrathbun09

    Never received.

  160. And that’s why a counter suit would ensure the deposition of one POB.

  161. Journey Continued

    Spot on Mike.

    Although I agree it is DM who is suing Debbie and Wayne for $300,000 and not the other way round, I would be very happy to hear that anyone who underwent the hole should be awarded multi-million dollar payouts.

    Just because Miscavige PR line tries to insinuate that anyone who sues the Church is after their money (which they coerced out of their “flock”) and that this is somehow bad does not make it so. The courts are there to administer justice and see that justice is done. Given everything you and anyone else who was in that hole went through, I see that DM/church paying for the hurt and suffering he has caused as one aspect of the correct application of justice.

    But for DM it is all about power and money and the two are intertwined. So I say hit him on both fronts and hit him hard!

  162. The fact that you signed similar agreements, yet freely speak out about Miscavige and his crimes and abuses, however have never been sued indicates what a selective enforcement suing Debbie and Wayne amounts to. The difference? Her email went to 12,000 mostly online parishioners. The real sin is/was telling the truth to the faithful, and that engendered swift retribution. What a pathetic and losing game. Instead of Clearing the Planet, now Miscavige is engaged in keeping truth from the dwindling parishioner base. it would be interesting to collect up all the other people who have spoken out and who assigned such agreements, and who were not sued, as it might come in handy in future proceedings in Debbie’s suit. In fact, one could argue that MIscavige is using the courts to prevent internal dialogue within the membership, the exact misuse of the courts that he is accusing Debbie of, when she was only defending herself from that exact thing.

  163. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks, Marty! will get the glitch sorted so you can get
    this Graphic No chance of any MU’s here! ( a Bummer!)

  164. I looked up “smarmy” in the dictionary and Abelson’s picture was right there.
    (Ingratiating and wheedling in a way that is perceived as insincere or excessive; unctuous. Synonyms: sycophantic – adulatory – oily – obsequious – fawning)

    By the way, I Googled some of Miscavige’s affidavits and declarations.
    There are some mind boggling whoppers in there. Perjury by the line.

  165. The preponderance of evidence is such that the likes of Ray Jeffrey will start doing these cases on a contingency basis to handle the finances of this impending tidal wave. Those individuals already mentioned as being witnesses within the statute of limitations are some of the best and deserving people on Earth.

  166. morelivesthanacat

    It’s time for some Ninjas with video cameras to camp out on the hills with long lenses on 24 hour watch. If it hasn’t happened already, I’d say the hole (wherever it is now–berthing buildings?) will be emptied, under cover of darkness (black boiler suits provided to the prisoners). No kidding.

    I predict they will be given an R factor by POB, a grand gesture of amnesty because of all the great things that are now happening in the Scn world (which will be briefed in GREAT detail); that he feels they’ve “gotten the point” by now, and quite magnanimously he will return them all to post with explicit marching orders to back up the current straight-up expansion (no joke–he’s done this before, like when after Marc Yager was declared an SP in the mid-90s and eventually “did the RPF” twinned with Biddy Miscavige and “graduated”, he was RETURNED TO THE POST OF CO CMO Int by COB much to the astonishment of most of us at the Base. (“wow”! we thought. He really does grant beingness!)–even to someone he briefed the entire base on two years earlier was a raving SP –all gory details included- Speaking for myself, I must say I was impressed at that outcome initially. Though I did find it odd that, within a few years, Yager, still supposedly on post, was a constant target of derision in the presence of other Int and Gold execs at the regular briefings and conference room meetings.

    To continue, he will uniform them, feed them well (to fatten them up), tend to any medical and dental work needed, and, in short, will take full advantage of the “Stockholm” syndrome (Black Dianetics) to return all these missing faces to the top in such a way that they will be eternally grateful (having finally realized he was right and that he indeed did salvage all of Scientology single-handedly in their absence). And they will attack their posts with a new relish as the robots they have now become and will defend Dave –as needed in the future– to the death.

    Hopefully, if this sort of thing is actually in the works, there are a few left strong enough that retained enough integrity to finally take care of Dave.

    Scary thought, isn’t it Dave?

    You just won’t win this one–no matter what you do now.

    I suggest you have Tom take you to Bulgravia. If he’s still talking to you, that is.

  167. That too, but they have already made his testimony an issue, even without the countersuit, as it is an integral evidentiary component of the defense.

  168. love you Amy! the thought of what all of you went through completely hurts.

  169. +1 Beautiful

  170. Elliott Abelson is not licensed in the State of Florida. How is it possible for him to get anyone to sign away their constitutional rights in the state of Florida? Ethics charges…..looks like a good place to start to me!

  171. I am wondering if any of the people who blew the S,O. or org staff instead of routing out are thanking their lucky stars for making a wise decision. I know I am. Watching Debbie go through that was very sobering.

  172. SKM, “prohibited from calling themselves Scientologists…” CSI is completely delusional!

  173. Wasn’t the word “Scientologist” trademarked?

  174. Pope Tiny Ball’s dictum:

    The beatings will continue until morale improve.

  175. The betrayal that some of you went through is heart wrenching. To DM you were “wretched refuse” to be used and thrown away. I don’t have it in me to write about this just now; it’s a very dark subject and when I do that, it takes a while to shake it off.
    So I cannot think of a more appropriate theme that most would know. There has always been refuge in the Truth; it’s like coming to a free land.

    “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
    With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
    Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    Emma Lazarus
    (Partial inscription inside the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty)

    Marty–Better keep the light on, Amigo.

  176. Spoken like only someone who has been there can….

  177. one of those who see

    Watched the videos. Read many of the comments about recurring nightmares. We who haven’t been there need to thoroughly confront that Mike gave up his family to get out of there and Debbie – strong, confident, theta Debbie actually thought about suicide and Amy still has nightmares! Mike mentioned the basement at Pac. I personally know someone who was kept there for a year! Tears in my eyes. This is truly a horror story happening in 2012. I am so happy to be free. I am so happy others are free.
    This nightmare is ending.
    Never again.

  178. one of those who see


  179. I’m trying not to get too worked up, but this shit absolutely blows my mind. As a former Class 5 org staff member (and before starting my internet research into the church directly following the “ex-wives” episode of the Anderson Cooper expose), I had no clue that I was indirectly contributing to this satanic behavior – although for some reason it did not surprise me at all that David Miscavage physically struck his staff based on a past experience with some of his RTC henchmen in the 80s.

    The church IS dead and it’s rotting corpse is stinking to high heaven. Radio Paul – if you’re reading this, do you and Brian have plans for an LRH birthday event protest? If so, I’d be happy to join you as an Independent – I’m sure there are still some staff and public that would be shocked to see me there (although I guess I’m tipping my hand).

    I have no particular insights to add – all I know is that it’s time to turn up the pressure any way we can brothers and sisters!

  180. Yes, I know. Also the terms Scientology, Dianetics, OT, LRH, “L. Ron Hubbard”, NOTs and many many more. LRH was reduced to a “symbol” and so all the other “religious” terms.

    I just wonder what a judge would say.
    She is a Scientologist because she follows the teachings of the Scientology Founder L. Ron Hubbard. She doesn’t sell products where the word “Scientologist” is labeled on.

  181. ” I want you to know that the LRH Birthday event is specifically
    designed so that you can bring all your friends, family, selectees,
    neighbors, colleagues etc. to the event.”

    I promoted that bullshit once as FSM i/c, and believed it will be as said and my fsm’s brought their friends and neigbours, but it was a fiasco as those people didn’t understand a word from the video we showed them ! I was so embarrassed and didn’t know where to hide !

  182. I keep wondering about all the people who were undergoing abuses, who were not high profile execs, who did not get paid off, and who may still be suffering with no way out. What I can’t understand is why the judge, who listened to Debbie’s testimony, cannot order an investigation. Can a judge use testimony as a basis for an inquiry? Where are the FBI? Is the invest on Scientology Int really closed? How is it that the FBI infiltrated the Mormon Ranch and other such complexes and yet they haven’t, to my knowledge, taken the time to go personally to the Int Base? The laws of the land are supposed to over ride church laws. I guess the church must implode.
    Anyone out there have legal knowledge?

  183. I beieve the beatings will continue to maintain the environment where if you hold up 3 fingers and tell someone there are 4 they will actually see 4; or in this case they will be shown empty buildings and see expansion.

    It’s another parallel to North Korea, the people there are so use to having to go to extraordinary efforts to be super zealous supporters of the regime for fear of being disappeared that they come to believe it wholeheartedly.

  184. Stoic-1,
    not only do they have to loose the ability to think critically, they have to loose any ability to think for themselves at all, coupled with no dignity, and most importantly, they must key in all their EVIL INTENTIONS to fuel their dedication to the SP i/c.

  185. KA,
    Abelson thought twice about mentioning David Miscavige by name. He did. Does that establish a “connection”?

    That and the completely contradictory PR statements made subsequently call in question the entire point of this video – to protect DM, as he carries on his farcical reversal of what he says minute to minute.

    This time Dave, it’s not just to the shells that surround you, this time it’s in open Court. It’s now public and nobody is missing the reality. You aren’t 10,000 miles away, you are right there in plain view and smack in the middle of what you made.

  186. Yes, a fair amount of the church of scientology’s litigation has centred around them maintaining a monopoly not just on the name church of scientology but on the scientology tech. Hence “Freezone”.

    I think they’d sue independent scientologists if it had a corporate entity to sue.

    Got me thinking what would the Vatican do if I opened a Catholic called the catholic church that practiced Catholocism but didn’t recognise the Pope? I could be really provocative and call it Our Lady of the Night. OK I digress…

  187. hahaha….too funny,if not too true.

  188. Mike Rinder
    In the most highly “densely populated” area of Scientologists, in the major metropolis of Los Angeles, the “church” of Scientology did not have a single spokesman to appear on ABC TV or Miscavige was too rattled to have someone appear.
    OSA INT may have some 25 staff in the “Internet unit” but do not have one single spokesman for a Los Angeles TV station ~~ ABC TV.
    I am relentlessly sending every outrageous media expose of abuse to all the Law enforcement Email addresses that I have. Today I included Lee Bacca’s office, the Los Angeles Sheriff that poses with David Miscavige in photo ops giving Law enforcement legitimacy.

    Ex-Mafia lawyer, Elliot Abelson indeed used to work for the mob ~~

    This was very creepy.
    “….the boss, David Miscavige…”

    The BOSS?
    It sounds like he is still back in the day …..
    Right out of an episode of the Sopranos.

    Debbie Cook mentioned a beating that lasted for 2 hours ordered by David Miscavige on Mark Ginge Nelson. (The one who had to lick a bathroom floor for 1/2 an hour)

    Ordering a 2 hour beating on anyone is Mafia thuggery and again utterly criminal and a felony act.
    How does the “Church” respond ?
    The REAL STORY is our New BUILDINGS !!!!!!
    Look at our new MEST !

    The REAL story is we gouged local parishioners in the Ideal Org Scam and we increased our net worth in Real Estate. Yeah, that’s the REAL story !

  189. Morelivesthanacat, your post frightened me ! How truth could be buried by this SP Miscavige! He is just a monster. But, always someone would speak up, and that would be it.
    What about if some of his body guards would just put him under arrest. A mutiny? Like on a movie “Sir, you are under arrest.” The one who will do that will save Scientology. Then a juicy com ev. And a 10 pages long SP declare (without disconnection). And a big group engram running and scientologists happy again. But I am dreaming… But there are no exemple in history where SP leaders didn’t finally collapse.

  190. To be fair all religions are prone to becoming tools for abuse because by their nature there are leaders and followers and the followers accept totally what the leaders say; clearly the independent movement demonstrates not all fall for though but enough do.

    Like I’ve always said generally the beliefs aren’t the problem it’s the churches built upon them.

    Even Bhuddism was used by the Japanese to inspire people to fight in the 2nd world war and, more importantly, to become kamikaze pilots.

  191. Thanks Karen. You are on the ball as usual.

    In my mind the real story is this: Miscavige has completely lost touch with reality and doesnt see or hear the world responding to him with either revulsion or laughter. Or both. He needs some of those Objectives he keeps sending everyone else to do. He needs to get back in contact with planet earth and stop fighting the Martian wars….

  192. Just had a vision of David Miscavige fire fighting, jumping up and down to trample out the small flames but then he has the bright idea of urinating on the fire instead. Sadly the amount of Scotch he drinks means it serves as fuel to the fire instead. Whoosh, all up his legs…

  193. Windhorse,
    I hung my head, in shame. I felt it poignantly. It pierced. It humbled me and I felt its pain.

    I feel it again now as I write.

    This time though, rather than fight it, I embraced it. I “owned” it and let it pour over me and realized something – a deeper lesson.

    I shared it. It was not just mine. It was the connection to other lives, other beings, and their very real cries. It isn’t just my shame.

    I realized my denial of the awful things kept the awful things not just for me, but those whose suffering I now know I feel along with them.

    I see that if I resist, and don’t confront, own, and embrace responsibly as a being, then they persist. Then I can do nothing to alleviate them, if I too become embroiled in the fighting of them. Those awful things.

    I can see peace. I can extend my life and that peace, to those others and I am today closer to that which I am, the Ultimate Truth which dissolves all things, pleasant and unpleasant.

    Thank you.


  194. If David Miscavige had any integrity he’d save you the bother and step aside to spend the remainder of his days one the church of scientology’s voluntary spiritual retreats, RPFs.

    He has no integrity and being as it’s an ecclesiastical matter I concur that someone or someones need to take charge.

    You might have a spot of bother with Miscavige, Moxon and the bank accounts though. Chances are if push comes to shove he’ll make like a Nazi war criminal and take the money and run.

  195. Too perfect!

  196. Ditto Dan. Though their PIs located me months later so that Warren McShane & Mike Sutter could visit and get me to meet Kirsten Caetano to sign two sets of NDAs, one regular and an extra additional one for Tom Cruise and VIPs. “Severance pay” was mailed some time later as perhaps an afterthought.

  197. Oh Yeah Debbie is a bitter apostate bu even if she is now, debateble, she wasn’t when she wrote the email the church of scientology sued her for.

    It was also amusing that the video of her signing the contract so contradicts the defrocking claims. She wasn’t defrocked at all (as in dishonorable discharge) she left with honor for medical reasons.

    There is no reason for her to be bitter about her leaving as she did according to the video evidence provided by the church of scientology and yet the church of scientology claims she is bitter.

    What happened was Debbie had some ecclesiastical issues with the church she belonged to as an upstanding public member and she voiced her concerns over the interpretation of scientology scripture.

    Rather than treat this sensibly as a purely internal ecclesiastical matter, which it so clearly is, the church of scientology was true to its manevolent form and tried to say it was a secular matter so they could sue the Cooks; if anyone is money grabbing it is demonstrably the church of scientology.

    I cannot believe the statements by the lawyers for the church of scientology, are they trying to postulate a win for the church of scientology. I really hope Debbie’s defence push hard for progress to the next stage; put up or shut up.

    Personally I feel she should counter sue. Defamation would seem to be evident based on contrary evidence from the church of scientology; summary judgement?

  198. Marty no need to approve this, it matters not either way, but if you could email me an address to which snail mail corrispondance can be sent as near directly as possible to David Miscavige I’d appreciate it.

    Don’t worry, I’m not going to try sending a letter bomb or something equally stupid, while you probably can’t trace me the FBI/CIA could do so with ease.

    I’ll default to gold base but if you know a more direct address it would be nice to know.

    Thanks. Dean.

  199. Oh yeah, Google send anonymous email if you’re concerned I might back trace you; I already know where you live from YouTube though. 😉

  200. Dean: Not entirely true about Buddhism inspiring people to fight in WWII and become kamikaze pilots.

    SOME kamikaze pilots followed the Shinto “religion” and some of these were also buddhist. But there is nothing within buddhism that supports suicide (unless there is serious illness, which is the exception)

    The current practice of some monks self-immolating themselves is a recent tragedy, brought on by the Red Chinese domination and nullification of Tibetan monks in Tibet.

    This practice of self-immolating has been decried by the current spiritual leaders on Tibetan buddhism up to the Dalai Lama and Karmapa.


  201. Threefeetback: ” Those with actual knowledge of the original DM coup, no matter how well intended, need to do whatever possible to undo it, in light of the catastrophe it has been over the past 26 years.”

    This is what I know as a public scientologist at the time.

    An issue announcing the Pat and Annie Broeker were given the rank of Loyal Officers and that LRH the Commodore was now going to be called “The Admiral” as he had gone up in rank.

    Don’t know the date of this issue but it was an HCOB and came out shortly after LRH’s death in January 26th, 1986.

    My ex and I had someone working for us who was the HAS LA Day. She brought the NEW issue about the Broekers having lied about being made loyal officers to the office. It was BACKDATED to look as if it came out BEFORE the Loyal Officer issue.

    They were within days of each other.

    She said she was ordered to round up every single Loyal Officer issue and shred it.

    Sometime during what must have been utter chaos at Int. Pat Broeker blew WITH the non-codified levels beyond OT VIII —

    I had no idea this had occurred but my ex and I would speculate on what Pat could have done to have gotten declared.

    And then months later a friend of mine who was at Int at the time — confirmed that Pat had blown with the materials. She said the whole place was in utter chaos.

    Somewhere on this blog Marty describes recovering those materials.


  202. Does anyone know what happened to the Grand Opening of the Cincinnati (Florence) Ideal Org that was scheduled for 11 February? The day after the Debbie Cook fiasco I guess Dave was too scared to go out in public. Did the local dignitaries (dupes) back out when they got worried he might order one of his minions to break their fingers? Has it been rescheduled?

  203. Who says he hasn’t already taken the money? He just hasn’t run yet. I was told a story by an IAS terminal that back in the late 80’s the Italian gov’t raided the church in Italy. The IAS had money hidden in other countries and were able to re-set-up shop almost immediately. POB was in office then. So what would keep him from just rolling up those same lines again with church money? As it stands now he doesn’t answer to anyone yet.

  204. There are software packages that evaluate stress in voice patterns.,used as lie detectors for hiring people and evaluating truth.Also books on the subject of reading peoples body movements including eyes blinking and looking down, all of that. Run D.M. event audio and so forth check it out for yourself, have a party with ballons and popcorn to get a load of D.M.,
    if it dosent make you sick.

    Debbie Cook has more courage than all of SEAL Team six put togeather.

  205. You miss the point, Buddhism was used not all Buddhists agreed.

    There was a sub sect of Buddhism generated in Japan called Imperial-way Buddhism. This used the lotus sutra to reveal the majestic essence of national policy. Basically convinced many Japanese Buddhists that Mahayana Buddhism supported the emporer’s work.

    This version of Buddhism was used to facilitate the invasion of China and the war on the USA.

    This is not to say Buddhism is wrong, but it makes the point, even if only partially true, that religion is used as a tool to abuse people.

    Given Buddhisms’ reputation as a none theistic belief system it demonstrates the fact even such faith based systems that manifestly support individual spiritual journies without a god can be abused, including scientology.

  206. morelivesthanacat

    Ana, I think the difference in the “Sir, you are under arrest.” movie scene is that while the captain may have been manifestly no longer qualified to hold command, and a danger to the ship, he wasn’t running Black Dianetics on the crew over decades. Some of his crew may have feared him, but none had delusions about either his sanity or their own.

    In extreme cases, men like Stalin simply erased the memory of the nation by outright slaughtering the most dangerous of his perceived competitors (politicians, artists, you name it), imprisoning the rest and cowering the rest of the population with a secret police force with eyes “everywhere”. Didn’t millions actually die by the time that was over?

    Then there’s North Korea. And that place has be so dark for so long, hardly anybody in the rest of the world knows what went on in there.

    As for Dave, he’s been erasing the memory of the group in a much more covert and brutal way using Black Dianetics such that the targets of this long campaign have begun to think that they themselves are evil or wrong or deserving of such punishment. He has been systematically eliminating all the old timers and certainly anyone who ever worked with LRH, thus effectively erasing the memory of the group leaving only the new “brown shirts” (Hitler Youth) who grew up not knowing LRH, not knowing what it was like in the old days, and knowing only COB, “the guy who single-handed defeated the IRS”, something that no one or no other organization has ever done before. That’s what we’re supposed to believe. And remember, that 1993 “The War is Over” event was the first event ever that he was the ONLY speaker at. That was supposed to be the day we all realized that HE was in charge. And from that point forward marked the beginning of the end of every single competent seasoned veteran executive that ever existed or who could ever threaten him.

    Someone could correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

    Nevertheless, you are still quite right. Regardless of all that, someone could still step up with a small cadre and say, “Sir, you are under arrest.”

    That’s what I meant when I said that hopefully there are a few who never lost their own integrity in the process, and, once they are out from behind barred windows and guarded doors, will then deal with Dave.

  207. North korean tech is the standard admin tech used in the staff in present time by the CoS.

  208. morelivesthanacat

    P.S. Ana, as to those body guards–last I knew they were X-military Special Forces type guys. Bought and paid for. Not in their best interest to arrest the little pain in the ass.

  209. Jim, what a cool post. I’m sending you a big hug.

    Also, please get Windhorse to tell how very ‘Scientology Buddhist’ what you just did was. 🙂


  210. Here’s the thing while debating philosophy is healthy, like Debbie Cook tried to do in her email, accepting someone else’s point of view as more valid than your own may not be.

    You must always second guess the motives of others. The minute you unquestioningly accept their point of view then you lend youself to being a victim of abuse.

    I want society to be run by concensus, this means as many people as possible thinking for themselves and a lot of dialogue. There is a lot of research that shows a crowd of people is in most cases smarter, makes better choices, than an individiual or a smaller group.

    Whpo knows this might be the ideal L Ron Hubbard wanted, an enablement of totally free thinking beings.

    As free thinking beings no two beings would agree all the time, or the probability would be remote. The result would be a society where relevant groups decided their fate democratically by a vote. The groups would also be fluid as would be borders.

    Humans would decide their fate democratically (democracy+ means voting on policies not on parties) for better or worse and would learn from it or die out; bear in mind the dinosaurs were around for millenia and so far we’ve only been here a few 10,000’s odf years.

    I believe our instinct for survival would make us more pragmatic but then our tribal instinct may yet get the better of us.

  211. Y’all need to see ‘V’ for Vendetta, the source of the icpnic Anonymous Guy Falks mask. The dynamics are pretty similar.Look for the common enemy, the promotion of fear, the oppression of free expression. The solution though is pretty radical so not recommended as practical in its literal form. Legal disclaimer this in no way endorses any illegal or terrorist act.

  212. See any parallels?
    Yes, it‘s obvious.
    Same behavior.
    See any difference?
    Well you didn’t get killed if you tried to leave, didn’t you?
    You could have walked out of the door if you really wanted to (like some did).
    In case of the North Vietnamese prison camp you only have two choices:
    Do what they want or get killed.
    In the second one a lot more choices are left as I see it.
    The WORST one is to take money and be quiet, IMHO.

  213. The beauty and the real beast. Here is this classy lady, extremely well
    trained in tech, highly trained in admin, data series etc etc, with years of
    experience in running the largest org in the world and successfully to
    boot and on the other side is this creepy, fat, yellow sweat coloring the
    his collar, trying to make light of the situation. She has worked 27 years
    with fur flying, barely any sleep being responsible for impossible targets
    and still making them, over and over, taking responsibility beyond the
    beyond and this little slime bag has the audacity to even address her,
    even holding out his hand to touch hers. Well at least he was scared
    shitless making mistakes and having to read his notes what to say next.
    He knew he was sitting in front of a legend and was duly cringing

    Debbie you are in class of your own and that is way up there in the

  214. Mike-

    Never heard a word and no press.

    Maybe tomorrow I’ll drive by and take a look. I’ll post what I see.

  215. Fritz the dog will enjoy the ride.

  216. Sinar I know you are not exaggerating about this. Back in the 90’s I was on course in the Coachman Building in Clearwater looking up a word in a big reference dictionary set up by the window overlooking the parking lot. Along comes David Miscaviage and his engourage of at least 5 people, stopped there in the parking lot talking, there was somebody carrying his fancy white cup and saucer filled with coffee and another person was carrying a fancy ashtray for his cigarette butts. I just could not believe what a pompous ass he was to expect/demand that kind of treatment for himself.

  217. Tony DePhillips

    Nice article,.

    The Britsih have a way about them, they can tell the about anything calmly but still make it sound as awful as it is. Brilliant read.

  218. I can´t belive this, an army man abused in this way.

  219. morelivesthanacat

    Yea Mike, my wife stopped by the village shop for a lemon and a newspaper, (the Times of London). We found the article, just like everyone else. Not forewarned. Just regular folk reading the paper. And that’s what got me going today.

  220. Thanks Tom. They were promoting it in the media until the shitstorm of San Antonio kinda put a damper on proceedings….

  221. JP…LOL, I think you have it nailed.
    Even the “official Church statement” regarding Debbie and husband is weak (per usual)…they are saying the expansion of scientology is because she left…but wait, I thought it was because Marty left…at least that is what OSA was promoting. I guess the only way the church “expands” is when bad people (the ones holding the International Exec positions) leave. Without the “bad guys” then it wouldn’t expand at all? What idiots, they apparently never think of what that implies. Secondly, the “fact’ that there are ‘new” churches opened since her leaving is such a joke. Sacramento is not a new church…it just had its ‘grand opening’ to the new building a couple of weeks ago…new building, not new church. Finally, they brag about how much paper (pamphlets etc) they can pump out…the biggest digital media center in the world…and this is important because…

  222. Jim, what a beautiful soul you are.
    I always enjoy your posts…from humor, to tech expertise, to heartfelt expression. Thank you.

  223. I also want to add how much I love this post from Windhorse as well.
    Thank you.

  224. another ex fso,

    thank you for telling your story. I am very glad that you are well and happy again!

    So, now we find out that (beside all the other atrocities) a departing member of the “Church of Scientology” is made to agree that he has not to come back to the U.S.. The Church assuming a right which falls under the jurisdiction of the U.S. government??

    I want to thank everybody here who told his story. I am outraged about it all but glad that you talk about it and that all this atrocities are coming to light. No more suppressing of our communication under the guise of “religious faith”.


  225. I would agree. Anybody with half a brain would ask themselves:

    How is somebody highly trained in LRH tech, gets transferred to another post, while still being held responsible for the post just left, and then gets sick, and then blows, and then routes out properly, and then disappears you might say from the scientology general public view, then writes an email saying we need to get KSW in as something is wrong, and then gets sued by the same organization she helped……………..

    why, somebody has to ask themselves, how is this possible? What about the billion year contract? What about the freeloader debt? How come they got paid some money while routing out?

    It just doesn’t add up? One of the most highly trained people in the world on LRH tech, gets sick, and phoof you are gone. Hey, thanks so much for your service, we really really care about you. Oh, by the way, keep your communications to fellow family scientologists to a minimum, we don’t what any trouble. And you agree, you agree, you agree, initial here, sign here, you agree, right?

    It all reminds me about the same as this south part clip on the recent financial crisis and banks:

    It’s Gone, Your service, your dedication, your training, it’s GONE.

  226. LOL…this BDA is almost as good as Jane Kember’s actual list of how to know 1.1 SP’s by the comments they make.

  227. Just the CRIMINAL MIND at work!

  228. It’s not the way the law works. the law is all about somebody bringing legal (law- or knowledge of law) against another, if it is in the law or UCC codes on commerce. the judge is not there to bring actions although they might know of it, it being the laws or codes.

  229. Dean, you said:

    “You must always second guess the motives of others. The minute you unquestioningly accept their point of view then you lend youself to being a victim of abuse.”

    But, if people are indeed thinking with the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” as opposed to the greatest number on a dynamic such as the current CO$.

    Why problem solved. I believe this is called a cleared planet or least a portion of it.

  230. “I want society to be run by concensus, this means as many people as possible thinking for themselves and a lot of dialogue. There is a lot of research that shows a crowd of people is in most cases smarter, makes better choices, than an individiual or a smaller group.”

    this is also called a cleared planet composed of cleared individuals thinking with the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.


    Hey, lets all donate every last penny of our current paycheck to the IAS, we got a planet to clear. HAHAHAHAHA

  231. Does anyone know how to get rid of this annoying black box saying “share this” in the top right hand corner that covers up part of the video?

  232. Absolutely brilliant!

  233. Thanks Cathrin!!

    I was looking for this reference since quiet a while – one of my favourites.

    “… That’s where you belong, then. You’re a lot better off outside that door. If this environment has smothered your power of decision, you don’t belong in it. …”
    That´s what I was reading when being an “ethics particle” (before I was released from the Ship). Was kind of soothing and very pertinent to my situation. – Karola

  234. Sorry – that´s: Catherine (to get it right).

  235. As we find more truth, surely, we must … see our mistakes. Shame in admission is transitory, as it can now be dealt with, in measure. The Beatitudes are a great comfort. The greater shame is in denial. It is the arrogant man, too proud, whose head soon falls at his feet.

  236. It wasn’t a “defrocking”, it was as stated by the lawyer a “medical LOA”.

  237. Jim – As we find more truth, surely, we must … see our mistakes. Shame in admission is transitory, as it can now be dealt with, in measure. The Beatitudes are a great comfort. The greater shame is in denial. It is the arrogant man, too proud, whose head soon falls at his feet. (Double post from above, but it’s short.)

  238. “how very ‘Scientology Buddhist’ what you just did was.”

  239. Pingback: top 100 |

  240. I see a pattern, the more people leave the more the church of scientology expands. If David Miscavige wants to clear the planet he need only defrock and declare everyone else, the expansion would likely clear not just this planet but a couple of others too.

  241. In essence you’re correct, a “cleared” planet is pretty much the same as my ideology. Like I said religions tend not to be the problem so much as what is done by them.

    All those who have been in the church of scientology, at least in recent years, believed they were working towards a cleared planet both individually and as a group.

    Those who are now here woke up and realised the reality that you really weren’t and all you were doing was supporting David Miscavige’s self interests.

    The religion of scientology was being abused to get you to work counter to yours and its ideology. It’s common practise I’m afraid.

  242. Perhaps if you volunteer to testify at the trial as to how such videoing was common practise and your circumstances (demonstrates a pattern) the defence can demand the videos be released. Interesting quandry for the church of scientology if they deny the existence of such videos they cannot use them in subsequent law suits.

  243. While ‘secrecy clauses’ are a common, and important, and legitimate, part of setting bona fide disputes between litigating parties, or parties who have not yet filed their law suits, but are entering into settlement in order to avoid litigation, in the 30 years I have been a practicing attorney, I have NEVER seen such a secrecy clause which was not vetted by EACH party’s own, independent, lawyers. I’ve never seen a secrecy clause written by one of the party’s lawyers, presented to the other party while that party was effectively incarcerated by the party who wanted the secrecy, and not allowed to consult with an attorney of his or own choosing.

    Oh, it is true, many times people who are otherwise acting freely and of their own accord … meaning that they can go home at night to their friends and family without fear of being chased and captured or having their life long ‘friends’ shun them … many times such people choose to not consult an attorney and sign such secrecy clauses on their own accord. But, no attorney in his or her right mind would rely on such a secrecy clause.

    In other words, if you want one of these secrecy clauses to have any efficacy, you WANT, and you MAKE SURE, that the other party IN FACT DOES HAVE INDEPENDENT LEGAL REPRESENTATION, and you DOCUMENT THAT FACT, by, in a clause like this which I have recently written, actualy reciting the name of the attorneys representing both sides IN THE DOCUMENT. That way it is clear that both parties had legal counsel and they both did this pursuant to the advice of legal counsel.

    None of these safeguards are present here, obviously..

    There was nothing voluntary about this, and everyone, including the Judge, know this.

    The kicker is this: A few years ago, I, myself, was ‘encouraged’ to ‘freely’ sign a document … just seconds before I was to start some auditing … thrust at me at the last second, without any explanation, which stated that I had been “unethical” and had even done things which were “criminal”. I had no idea why i was being asked to sign this before I could start auditing, and was shocked. I wasn’t, exactly, told that, if I didn’t sign it, I couldn’t get auditing, or that it was an LRH requirement of my auditing (which I later found out it was not) … but the DofP sort of stood there with this imperious posture, stating that I ‘had’ to sign this. Well, what I did was mark out the part about having done “criminal” or “illegal” things, and initialed them … I didn’t have a problem referring to “unethical” things, as that is a techical term in Scientology which can be easily explained. But, later, I was astonished … did the Church require everyone, as of 2006, to sign such things, intimating that if they refused they’d not get auditing, in order to have some “evidence” later that the person was a criminal … and evidence which, since it came BEFORE the religious counseling session was not, itself, protected by the Priest-Penitent Privilege? Hmmm.

    The point is, MANY of us have been forced to sign things very similar to what Debbie Cook signed. We could ALL be called to testify to the Church’s practices in this regard.

    I think it would be lovely to visit Texas about the time of the trial in this matter.

  244. If you find out, please let me know!

  245. A Slavemaster David Miscavige is, a twisted sadist.

  246. One thing I like about scientology is the concept of self study and lack of interpretation by another – you have to arrive at your own interpretation and while the realisations (cognitions) may be standard I see them more as mile stones that people experience in their own way. This should be emphasised more and more religions should do this.

    Buddhism didn’t inspire people to become Kamikaze pilots, other people did by abusing Buddhism. You’re correct Shinto was also used. Basically the divinity of the two religions was abused to inspire people to commit “God (or Divine) Wind”. Could have easily been Scientology had it been prevalent at the time.

    It has to be said that while neither religion doesn’t in plain form advise martyrdom those who apologise for this abuse are hard pressed to say the practice was not against the religions.

    They’re probably ambivalent on the subject, containing various “special circumstances” that afforded opportunities to reverse various practices; “thou shalt not kill – except….” kind of thing. Either way the people believed what they were told by the leaders was the correct translation of the religions and so committed suicide, no promise of 72 raisins (the correct translation of the word in the Koran) waiting for them in heaven either.

    I stated Buddhism because it doesn’t purport to have a fixed belief in a God figure, no idea about Shinto.

    The point is that to accept what another says about a religion unquestioningly is to leave oneself open to such abuses. You also need to be aware that most churches use cunning ploys to give one “guidance” through your “questioning” such that you arrive at the “correct” result. Hence all those wonderful bible study groups various “higher ups” like to hold – you can always tell the ambitious amongst the flock because they volunteer to hold bible study groups at their house.

  247. Mr. Milton, your sole presence would make a significant difference, you seem to have certainty on this subject.

  248. Li'll bit of stuff

    Marty, re-sent pic.around 08.00 hrs. Copy House
    assured me, this jpg should arrive! Otherwise how
    about assisting me from your side. Ie, clear
    instructions on what to do to ensure a pic. arrives
    at your e-mail address set – up Thanks, Li’ll bit

  249. It’s not really surprising or even shocking that a criminal like David Miscavige is trying to use the law and intimidating ‘secrecy clauses’ to enforce his crimes on others.

    What’s shocking is the fact that some people are that BRAINWASHED that they seem to believe that “legal” nonsense could have any other effect than to get himself behind bars.

    That goes way beyond my imagination.

  250. When I first made contact with scientology in 1998, I became, very quickly, aware of what seemed to be a nearly universal disdain — even hostility — among ‘Scientologists’ for attorneys (which is surprising, as this is the common group think), the civil law and the judiciary.

    I was puzzled by this — the abject ignorance of the critical value of the American legal system to the very existence and survival of Scientology.

    Perhaps this is due to some things LRH mentions in an off-hand way about judges and how the legal system can bring about the wrong result. But, the fact of the matter is that, without the American … American, mind you, legal system, we would not have Scientology as we know it. We would not have LRH’s brilliance preserved. We would not have something for David Miscavige to destroy.

    Rail all you want about the evils of the “legal system” … and do this especially when the result it seems to get is one that you, in your own considerations, do not like — or even find abhorent. But, the very legal system, the very Judges, the very laws which David Miscavige and his minions have used, are using and will use to destroy Scientology, is what will, in the end, save Scientology from obliteration.

    Marty says as much when he compliments the attorney who saved Debbie Cook’s bacon. … And, there are many, many, many …. many other fine attorneys who endeavor to protect our liberties, our freedoms, or rights to enjoy the fruits of LRH’s works without the vile suppression of David Miscavige.

    Those of you, therefore, who want to defeat Miscavige’s putrid mis-use of the immensely wonderful American Legal System, should put your hands in your pockets, and take out all of that money you wasted on CofS ‘auditing’ and help pay for Debbie Cook’s defense. It will be expensive. And, it will be worth it.

    Continue to disdain the legal system and lawyers and treat them with disrepect and suspicion, and Scientology is lost.

  251. Mike did you catch at 2:42 on the tape with Eliot Abelson and Debbie Cook that Eliot corrects himself and says its his “opinion” or what he “considers” astounding growth of the church. Why not just repeat the statements of the official spokespeople when they were there that it is astounding growth not what he considers growth. He makes it sound like some others would not consider it growth? I know the church wont release any stats to anyone.

  252. Jim,

    Technically, since Elliot Abelson is the General Counsel for CSI (see … ….) he cannot testify while he is presenting evidence to the Court. That would be mixing two ‘hats’ … the hired gun/attorney hat, and the witness hat. Attorneys, are not, normally, allowed to be witnesses in cases where they represent one of the parties, for the simple reason that this would put their testimony, and their representation of the client in conflict.

    That is not to say that skilled lawyers do not often “testify” to the Court or Jury (meaning, insert their opinions into the record in an attempt to persuade the Court or the Jury to disregard the actual evidence given by the opposing side, and instead rely upon their (non-evidence) opinions. BUT, this is HIGHLY improper, and if Counsel persists in “testifying” when what he should be doing is eliciting testimony from a qualified witness, he can be sanctioned, or can even cause a mis-trial.

    The evidence upon which the Court/Jury is supposed to rely is supposed to come from witnesses. Not the attorneys.

  253. The corporation drones are dramatizing a Marcab implant or something. They think they can make you “dead forever” by using reverse Scientology. Just as with the Marcabs, they’re exiling all their most powerful, ethical, and courageous OTs.

  254. I worked on church renos with Kirk Steele in L.A. for years. Any relation?

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