Toronto – David Stokes

You need a scorecard these days to keep track of who is in and who is out of Scientology Inc in Toronto.

On the 31st of August, 1973, I stepped through the front door of the Toronto org for the very first time.  I was introduced to the Public Reg, Judy Breaks.  (She later became Judy Light, a Flag reg for some time, I believe.)  I began the HQS course that evening.  I was on the Bridge to Total Freedom.

On the 31st of August, 2011, exactly 38 years later, I stepped through the front door of the Toronto Org possibly for the last time.  I came for a meeting with the Toronto Day Org’s Ethics Officer, David Felske (David is the son of the local, Toronto DSA, a woman named Pat Felske).  He showed me the two written official Flag Ethic’s Orders that he had received that morning.  I read them both.  The first one declared me to be a Suppressive Person.  The second one expelled me from the Church.  The EO told me I would not be given a copy of either of these two published Ethics Orders.  I left the meeting.  I left the building.

Thirty-eight years.  To the day.

Perhaps now I could get back on the Bridge to Total Freedom as an Independent Scientologist.  Has anyone else, reading this, had a similar thought?

Hello!  My name is Dave Stokes.  I have lived in Toronto all my life.  Sixty-one years.  The Toronto Org has always been my Org.

My personal Scientology history is:

–        I joined staff on three different occasions, completing one 2.5 year contract (’73 thru ’76) and not completing two others (’78 and ’86).

–        As a public, I completed three auditor training courses (HSDC, Academy Levels 0-4, and the Sec Checker course).  I failed to complete all three internships and therefore I have no auditor experience.

–        As a public I made it to Dianetic Case Completion at Toronto Org (2001).

–        I went Clear and did my OT 1-5 at AO ANZO in 2002-3.

–        I began solo auditing on OT 7 in June, 2004.

–        I stopped solo auditing on OT 7 in July, 2005.

–        Having a personal computer, I had been a good boy and behaved myself from 1997 to 2009 by viewing only “approved” web sites and not reading any “entheta” anywhere from any source.

–        My behaviour changed in August, 2009 when I found out about and listened to all the Truth Rundown videos.

–        Thereafter, I had a valence shift and I became a bad boy and misbehaved wickedly from August of 2009 to August of 2011 reading anything and everything I could find about Scientology on the internet and elsewhere.

–        I was Comm Ev’ed in the last week of June, 2011.

–        I was found guilty of my alleged crimes and high crimes, declared an SP and expelled from the Church, 31 August 2011.

–        I am declaring myself to be an Independent Scientologist, Feb. 2012.

What were my high crimes that caused me to become an “overnight” SP, you might wonder?

I looked.  I spoke up.  (We all did this, is that not the case?)

In late 2009, having committed these two crimes, my Flag D of P (Nancy Hawkins) asked me to stop.  I said “No.”  In 2010, a Flag MAA (Wella MacDonald) told me to stop.  I said “No.”  A Flag Tour Qual Consultant (Myron Rapp) ordered me to stop.  I said “No.”  The FSC for Canada (Arda Froese) encouraged my to stop.  I said “No.”  In 2011, two OSA agents (Peter Stevenson and John MacPhail) counselled me to stop. (I did not know they were OSA agents at the time.  I thought they were concerned fellow Toronto Scientologists just trying to help me in my hour of need.  However, the only evidence at my Comm Ev was submitted by Stevenson and MacPhail.)  In 2011, the Chairman of my Comm Ev (Susan Sisson) warned me to stop.  I said “No.”  My ex-wife (27 years of marriage), my son and my daughter begged me to stop.  I said “No.”

Perhaps this is not an unfamiliar story to many others?

Since August of 2009, I have tried hard to inform myself of missing data that was unavailable to me as a parishioner of David Miscavige’s church.  In no particular order, this data includes:

–        Reported physical violence at Int Headquarters on SO staff by SO staff.

–        SP declarations on 18 of 54 Class 12 auditors (meaning one-third of all Class 12’s have been declared over the years to be SP’s).

–        SP declarations of 38 of 54 original Old Saint Hill staff members (meaning 70% of the original Old Saint Hill staff have been declared over the years to be SP’s).

–        The details of David Mayo’s removal from post, his comm ev and subsequent declaration and expulsion.

–        The “instant SP declarations” of many veteran mission holders in 1982.

–        The treatment of Mary Sue Hubbard and the non-announcement of her death in 2002 and therefore no subsequent celebration of her life.

–        The details of the editing of LRH’s written and spoken words after the fact of his death.

–        The details of the re-introduction of disconnection policy in 1982.

–        The fact of the continuing promise of Super Power “next year”.

–        The details of the non existence of the New World Corps and Universe Corps.

–        The details of LRH’s death.

–        The details of changes made to LRH’s will the day before he died.

–        The details surrounding Lisa MacPherson’s death.

–        Pat and Annie Broeker’s disappearance from public view in 1987.

Apparently International Management considers the staff and public of a Class 5 Org to be of such a low order as to be unable to correctly confront and evaluate such data.  For the record, I object.

The only Class 5 Org that I have reality on is Toronto.  Thirty-eight years is enough time to become familiar with the workings of the Toronto Org.  I have done no services at any other lower Org.  In those 38 years I have observed the following key Org stats that have entered a completely non viable range (= condition of Non-Existence):

–        Auditors made (= Non-E).

–        Releases made (= Non-E).

–        Clears made (= Non-E).

–        New public starts (= Non-E).

–        Staff Pay (= Non-E).

The Toronto Org has managed to stay alive only because two stats have not yet slipped into Non-Existence:

–        Gross Income (= Danger).

–        Number of Staff (= Danger).

As well, over the years continual emergencies arise in Toronto like:

–        Unpaid property taxes resulting in threats of being locked out.

–        Unpaid heating bills resulting in the heat being turned off (it’s Canada!).

–        No air conditioning (= unbearably hot auditing rooms and course rooms).

–        Plumbing failures resulting in degraded bathroom facilities.

–        Wasted money due to incompetent local management decisions (like $180,000 wasted on purchasing significantly unusable architectural plans for the new “Ideal Org” reno’s).

–        And no toilet paper!

The Org actually is a smelly near-corpse that should have died years ago.  But people of good will keep it going.  Dedicated, long suffering staff members perform mouth-to-mouth resuscitation every Thursday somewhere around two o’clock.

The basic history of this Org is straightforward.  Its heydays were the 1970’s.  That 10 year period produced several thousand public and several hundred staff (as Jim Logan will attest to).  I was one of them.  As was Jim.  And many of us are still around.  Myself and Jim included.  And Paul Staffer.

There was a gradual decline over the last thirty years.  Now, in 2012, there is a core group of about 200 Toronto Scientologists.  This group is made up of 30 year or 40 year veteran Scientologists and their offspring.  About 30 are on Toronto staff.  The rest make up the bulk of Toronto’s public.  There are about 35 active OT 7’s and 8’s.  There are about 15 staff and field auditors who actually audit others on grade chart actions.

This core group over the years has been abused.  They’ve been knocked around.  They’ve been through building fires and police raids and government trials and bad press and stupid ED’s and psychotic CO’s and staff rip-offs and suppressive quotas and wrong whys and weird evals and unrealistic promises and no heat and no toilet paper and no fun.

And still some of them are here.  Bedraggled.  Bruised.  But breathing.

In my opinion, these Toronto Scientologists only need three uninterrupted hours of truthful information regarding the world-wide Scientology scene to have a cognition. Given that cog, I am convinced they’d soon renounce current management and join the independent field.  But … it won’t happen.  It won’t happen for a very good reason.  The threat of disconnection.

These +30 year, +35 year, and +40 year Toronto Scientologists have their day-to-day routines, their families, their livelihoods, their friends, their associates solidly intermingled.  It’s almost incestuous.  Disconnection would cause any veteran Toronto Scientologist to lose everything and everybody he or she needs or values.

I know.  It happened to me.  It has been six months since I was declared.  In that time, my ex wife has not spoken to me.  My son has not spoken to me.  My daughter has not spoken to me.  My best friends have not spoken to me.  My employer has not spoken to me.  My doctor has not spoken to me.  My accountant has not spoken to me.

Luckily, my personal motto is:  “Be willing to experience anything.”

I am truly enjoying my state of “being disconnected from”.  Maybe I should go to the examiner and attest to something! (Joke.)  If somebody, anybody, disconnects from me given my beingness, then, it’s his loss and my gain.  Being a bad boy is bring back fond memories.  A plus point!  Might it be the same with you?

And I have long prepared for this disconnection.  I figured it was going to happen sooner or later.

In 2005, I left Flag without permission, without routing out, without my confidential materials, and without saying goodbye.  Flag was pissed!  I had been on the level for 13 months.  I then simply stopped auditing on OT 7.  I had had enough.  I had seen enough.  I knew something was wrong.  Very wrong.  But in 2005 it was only a vague knowingness.  I thought it was me!  I thought I must have fucked up.  Again.  You know, more overts.  More withholds. More mis-understoods.  But I was not going to let anyone touch me.  Handle me.  Convince me.  Re-hab me.  Sec check me.  In my mind I was going to withdraw (Theta/MEST theory) and think things through for a while.  On my own.

So I lied to people.  I lied to all the people who tried to get me to resume my auditing.  And from 2005 to 2011 that was close to probably thirty different people.  I lied to them all.  I made excuses.  I made vague promises to continue sometime in the future.  In other words, I stalled for time.  And peace.  Admittedly, I was still concerned about what life would be like after declare and disconnection.

Then in 2009 I watched all the videos of “The Truth Rundown” and began reading Marty’s blog.  I became a lurker.  And for the next two years I did some pretty serious research on the internet.  The main question that I personally wanted answered was: “What would cause a long-time SO member to actually leave the Church after so many years of dedication, persistence and loyalty?”  I reasoned that the answers to that question would reveal the big outpoints.  Perhaps even the biggest outpoint in all of Scientology.  I read so many personal stories of ex-SO members that I lost count.  I read all the posts.  All the comments.  All the books.  Watched  all the videos.  I got all the data I could.

And the answers were revealing.  The outpoints became obvious.  To me.

I then knew why I had stopped my solo auditing.  It was no longer vague.  It was concrete.  The pieces of the puzzle all fit.  It all made sense.  But it had taken me a total of five years.  And didn’t Marty say that he decompressed for four years?  Others have given similar time periods to get over the shock or whatever they needed to get over.

So for 5 years I had been preparing for my inevitable declare and disconnection.  It still shook me.

The Toronto Scientologists, with their lives so intimately connected with everything Scientological, are not so prepared.  And that’s why it is going to be so difficult for many of them to leave.  For many, almost impossible.  Inconceivable.

The fear factor is huge.  Is this similar in other orgs?

The heartening thing is that seven +25 year Toronto Scientologists, all OT’s, contacted me after I had been declared.  They acted independently of each other, of course.  It took courage.  I thanked them individually for that.  The conversations were not too long, just long enough.  Danger hung in the air palpably.  Each wished me luck.  Each voiced fears.  Thoughts.  Considerations.  And each expressed his or her own wish that the PT insanity would soon end. Peacefully.  With no blood (metaphorically).  But each, in his or her own way, acknowledged that being disconnected was not an option available to them.  He or she would avoid SP declaration and disconnection at all costs.  I did not press the point.  I ended by saying that I’d be in touch if anything really exciting happened.  Not one of these seven people told me not to get back in touch.

So … I think the following statement is exciting:

“ I, David Stokes, of Toronto, Canada, (not Boise, Idaho) declare that I am now an Independent Scientologist.”

So, I’ll be shortly getting back in touch with these seven Toronto OT’s and giving them this exciting news.  And Debbie Cook’s email.  More excitement!  We’ll see what happens.

Also, I invite any lurking Toronto Scientologist or any other Scientologist, veteran or neophyte, who wishes to communicate with me, on any subject whatsoever, Scientology or otherwise, local or worldwide, to email me.  My secure email address is:

Those who have known me well over the years know that I pride myself on my discretion.  Any comm given to me I treat as inviolable.  Sacred!

My secret plan is to facilitate a mass Toronto Scientologist declaration of Independence.  Twenty-five OT’s sounds about right.  Twenty-five Independent Beings announcing together that “the chains are off”,  “we are at cause, not effect” and “we think for ourselves”.  Perhaps unrealistic but a plan nonetheless.  Again, a secret plan.  So mum’s the word, please.

Any suggestions?

I wish you well,

Dave  (a.k.a.  Toronto Public)

236 responses to “Toronto – David Stokes

  1. Impartial English Girl

    Fantastic post. Tony, you look like a really nice guy and a great bloke to have around. I wish you all the very, very best of health, happiness and success for the future.

    IEG xx

  2. Fuckin’ A, Dave! I love your declaration of independence. It’s specific and just plain fun. Enjoy the hell out of yourself. 🙂
    P.S. I hope your friends enjoy it, too.

  3. Hey David!

    Well done and written like the David Stokes I have always known.

    I always admired the way you communicated in a no-nonsense fashion, and this is no exception.

    Yes, the OTs and movers & shakers in the Toronto field have been abused over & over. Some of those heating bills I paid for to keep that org functional … it’s hell to see you’re breath in the Academy in winter and turn those pack pages with your mittens. 🙂

    Hey, you forgot the broken elevators!

    Anyways, many of the Toronto public have contacted us and know what is going on.

    Do well and get in touch if you wish.

    Dennis & Isabelle Prunkl

  4. Good write up. Gratz.

  5. Bert Schippers

    Hi David Stokes of Toronto, nice to meet you! Excellent post and welcome to freedom! I love your plan, go for it!

  6. David, you’ve got b____s (word censored.)

    I chuckled a lot at your insouciant way of stating things. Thanks for your good post. And I think most other orgs have just as many people “behind the fence but wishing they could jump over…”)

    Best of luck to you! Lynne

  7. David I am proud to know you and proud to have read your story. I had the same problem. As long as I was quiet, members of the church LITERALLY had a field day on my ass. Once I did what you did, investigated, asked questions, refused to believe they were telling me the whole truth and nothing but the truth, all of a sudden no-one is allowed to associate with me at the church, according to one “member in good standing”. Good riddance. Who needs them? 🙂 I wish you well.

  8. Welcome, Dave. It’s nice to be out, eh?

    I had to chuckle at the “no toilet paper” remarks. I think that also extends to “no paper towels” either. At ASHO in LA, this was a constant problem. At break time, people would come out of the restrooms flapping their hands like ducks to dry off. A Billion $ in the bank and Miscaviage can’t even put in air hand dryers. But I bet his personal toilet paper is damn near made of silk.

    I, too, have lots of questions about what really happened with LRH, Mayo, Finance police, etc., and I eagerly await Marty’s book so we can have light shed on these events.

    It’s great to have you among us. I wish you very well on your postulates to expand the independent field in Toronto.

  9. Holy shit !

  10. Cindy Pinsonnault

    “So … I think the following statement is exciting:”

    So … I think your whole post was pretty damn exciting! Thanks, David Stokes from Toronto!! You definitely have my agreement on your postulate for Toronto’s field.

  11. Meanwhile, in Israel, a new court document has Scientology arguing that David Miscavige spoke lies to thousands of assembled church members.

    Some time last year the contractor responsible for the renovations on the Jaffa org in Israel sued the church of scientolofy for not paying the dues. Naturally the church of scientology sued back saying he’d not completed the renovations.

    Last December David Miscavige told parishoners in the UK Jaffa org in Israel was finoished, staffed and open for business. The event was video and it surfaced on Village Voice. When the contractors tried to use the video as proof the renovations were complete the church of scientology attorney said it proved no such thing because the video was a fake and David Miscavige’s statements a lie. Oh dear.

    Also lots of controversy with the church of scientology, the Nation of Islam and a charter school in Florida that’s gone bankrupt. Apparently lots of funds were funnelled to various destinations other than teacher pay, text books and equipment.

  12. Hi Dave. Osa will contact all of them for you by now.

  13. Great write up Dave!
    I walked away from the FSO too in 2005, just after finishing New OT V. Made lots of excuses too for not returning too. Then read the 2009 Truth R/D in the St Pete Times. Bam!
    When you find its a Ponzi scheme and the “who” (DM) behind it, you have to ACT or lose your personal integrity, which is a greater loss than the temporary loss of friends and family. They will eventually come around. All Ponzi schemes come to an end.

    Welcome Dave.

    I will keep your plan for Toronto OT’s a secrete unless I run into an OT from Toronto, then I’ll let him know to contact you.

  14. Felicitas Foster

    Dear Dave,
    very well done on keeping your personal integrity. Your story is very insightful and complete. I totally duplicate you. The picture you draw from the sit in Toronto matches the ones you will find all over the planet. It is sad but we are here to cause changes and our postulates will create a better future.We are strong and have valuable aims.
    All my love to you – you are not alone.

  15. Com Ev the Toilet paper IC.
    Do the BC as an Independant, keep on trucken aye.

  16. For four years I travelled all over the US. Actually visite 48 out of the 50 states and 9 out of 10 provinces. I sold many products face to face to consumers. What this allowed me to do was to actually visit and take courses in many Orgs. I also worked on cruise ships for 12 years. I have visited amoung others LA org, San Francisico Org, Vancouver Org, Miami, Phoenix, Minnepolis Org, Kitchener Org, London Org, Sanint Hill, Chicago Org, Honolulu Org and more and all are the same.They are all in Non E or lower. No staff anywhere make money. In fact many org staff are supplimented with SO members to just function. Are there any public? No. And when a video needs to be made to create some PR. SO members flood the course room to make them appear to be full. So what you experieinced in Toronto is the same everywhere.

    I saw a DVD of an event where David Mis….mentioned the new Ideal Orgs in Manchester, Sunderland, London, Birmingham and said the UK was ready for a boom. Well I was born in the UK and hold dual passports. So I moved to London to work and join staff. London Day has maybe 16 staff, FDN maybe 20 but most of them come from Saint Hill every day and are in fact SO members.

    And yes I bought my own toilet paper while on course in Toronto. The new buildings in London at least have their own toilet paper, but I suspect they only survive from ‘handouts’ or ‘top ups’ from Int.

    I too looked and then went into the. Org to discuss what I saw. I was made to feel guilty and had a /sec check. This is not freedom. This is not the religion I signed up for and paid a lifetime membership.

    Well I resigned 8 months ago.

    Sad thing is the way Scientology is now it could learn from other organized religions. You can have the freedom to disagree in other churches and the freedom to discuss you views.

    Welcome David

  17. It all comes down to integrity. Without it you’re toast. I went through a similar sequence of actions as you did. I was lucky to have one of my two disconnected children leave the SO and reunite with me about ten months after my declare. The suppression that came off my lines after I resigned from the Church was palatable. Life is quite good, my comm lines more far reaching and my sphere of influence increased. I hope you experience the same. You have my postulate that you will be reunited with your children sooner than later.

  18. Welcome to the independent movement David. If you like to read, I am cuurrently reading a book called “Wild Swans”. It is about three generations of women from China who lived over a decade and through the communism change. This goes back to the early 1900’s and moves forward. The social climate described with the event of a communistic society paralleled exactly what you see in the culture today with the Church. Even shunning and disconnection. Confessing. People writing reports on their neighbors. It is ancient social intercourse the rest of the world has risen above long ago.
    You are right to refuse such suffrage and self denial and self abnegation more than a century later in a civilized and advanced country such as Canada. Confronting inconvenient truths is the stuff that makes way toward freedom. One of favorite sayings is:

    ‎”The important thing is this: To be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become.” ~ Charles DuBois

    We all have goals of becoming. When we find we have sacrificed what we were, to become something less than that, this brings about loss. The most of us did not enter this game to become bullied, shadowed, threatened with loss, and mislead by ill tempered and irrational game plans.

    My warmest wishes for you to get through your internships and become the auditor you planned to be. To help others get up the bridge as you wanted to do. And to be the free and independent you deserve to be.

  19. Loved your write up.

    I was on Mission for several months at the Toronto Org sometime in late ’78-79 — the purpose of the Mission was to find the successful actions Toronto was engaged in during its earlier boom period and put those back in AND to put in the FIRST purif delivered off the Flag Base —

    Perhaps you remember? Everyone did their purif at a local Y or something – which would flap from time to time because people were in the sauna for 5 hours … Emile Gilbert was brought around and some other former GO staff …

    It was was pretty wild time and it looked like maybe for a few moments, a new boom might happen … dm was on the line at that time as Mission Ops — so needless to say, that boom never happened.

    Delighted to share your aspirations for 25 other OTs to come forward. Perhaps the Mannings?


  20. Great write-up, Dave!

    In the Miscavige cult, OT stands for Overtly Trapped.

    Remaining in a messed-up group due to fear of being disconnected from is as far from OT as you can get. It’s as far from pro-survival as you can get, thus it is out-ethics in the extreme.

    I hope that some of the “OT’s” who you’ll be communicating with can make a break for it, despite personal danger or loss.

  21. Thanks, David for your write-up. Wow! Very straight and to the point. Thank you also for relating that Disconnection is what the Toronto public and staff fear. I harp on this subject a lot, because of the damage it has done in my life and the lives of others on this blog. It seems to be the glue that keeps people from actively leaving the Church of David Miscavige, being the coercion and extortion that it is. It coerces people to stay “in” and extorts money and activity from those “in” to appear to be “with the program”. It basically holds one’s loved ones, friends, and family as hostages, as one knows he/she will be cut off if one is not “in” and “with the program”. Unfortunately, it isn’t LRH’s program, it is David Miscavige’s program. I am very happy you plan to communicate with those who are “in” but in communication with you, as that is what will break the back of Disconnection. More communication, not less. Sooner or later, it will empty out the Church, and the Church will be forced to change something, as the Independent field will be bigger than the Church’s field, if it isn’t already.

    For many years I viewed Scientology as the art and science of communication, which is the opposite of Disconnection. Since we Independents have LRH’s tech and are using it, we are winning and will continue to win! Those employing no communication, which seems to be David Miscavige’s program, will lose. That is just the natural law of theta and ARC.

    Thank you for your courage in speaking out, and for your plan to continue disseminating the truth to those who will listen.

  22. David,
    I salute your confront of outpoints, your self-determinism and your integrity !

    No toilet paper in a cold unheated org with faulty restroom plumbing – is that a new civilization or something ?!?!?!?

  23. My My My…You really have been a bad boy haven’t you?

    Well, since David Miscaviage is busy having an expensive gourmet lunch I am going to step in here for him and assign you the following steps so that you might come to see what an apostate, squirrel and SP you really are:

    1. Find a tree and begin running around it
    2. Slap, kick and punch yourself in the face while running
    3. Spit on yourself if you consider stopping for any reason
    4. Decide you are going to order 20 Basic Book packages
    5. End off after 48 hours and then go to your closest 7-Eleven store and lick the bathroom floor clean
    6. Do this everyday until you perish

    Congratulations Dave…love your post! You seem like a great guy. All the best to you.

  24. This is so good! Thank you Dave!

  25. *the video was a fake. The video contained footage of the renovated org which the church of scientology attorney said was fake.

    BTW, when looking at some stills of the interiors of some ideal orgs I have thought they look like ray trace fakes, almost too perfect.

  26. Greetings Dave Stokes,
    Thank you for such a good and poignant write-up.
    It is so interesting to read other’s journeys.
    You might even know me, I was on an OSA mission for many long months connected with the Toronto raid. Cathy was the DSA at the time. Clayton Ruby was the Church lawyer.
    I have sometimes wondered what happened to Kathy and Emile Gilbert, Bryan Levman, Gary and Donna Jepson, Rosi Levman and others~~ if they are still drinking the Koolaid or have moved on.
    Absolutely shocking that Miscavige boasts that the REAL STORY IS THE ACQUISITION OF MORE REAL ESTATE AND REAL ESTATE NET WORTH
    Unpaid Property tax almost locks you out of the building, heating and air conditioning is shut off, plumbing is unaffordable causing degraded toilet facilities with no toilet paper !!!

    Good to read the ACTUALITY when you remove the rosy curtains and look at the reality. This is a “Church” that keeps membership IN by THUGGERY. BY blackmail of losing family, losing one’s entire infra-structure. One’s Doctor, one’s CPA, one’s VET, one’s Dentist, not to mention own kids and close family. and place of employment. It isn’t going to fly long range. Enforced THUGGERY has a shelf like and a life span. No way in this culture, in this digital age of information is the blackmail, reg extortion, enforced and malicious disconnection going to last ad infinitum.

    You gave a super write up. Warm welcome to this blog Dave…..

    PS A lot more than 18 of the 54 Class XIIs got SP declared. Exact head count is over 30. Note that Ray Mithoff and John Eastment up lines at INT BASE are declared even though we have not seen the issues.
    There are only 9 Class XIIs left at Flag.
    Down from 24 in 1982 !
    No replacement Class VIIIs or XIIs are being made.
    NOTE: All 8 Class XIIs trained by LRH are declared, that’s right, all 8 of them, I was the last one , hanging on like you did, finally surreptitiously declared ~~ I had to obtain the issue by other means, hidden in a locked cabinet in HCO ! Out of 8 Class XII CSes EVER made, 5 are declared SP and 2 are dead.

  27. Hey Dave! Well done and welcome out. You are correct that all it takes is just getting someone to look in order for them to wake up and get out.

    Some of these cats have their blinders bolted on pretty hard though. We’ll just have to keep at it.

    Good job, buddy. Glad to have you here.

  28. Centurion……Miscavige doesn’t lower himself to wipe his ass so he wouldn’t be familiar with the toilet paper situation. He has someone following him around to wipe his ass. It’s a well know fact he doesn’t know how to wipe his own ass along with a lot of other things. Like announcing to the world how the Ideal Morgue of Jaffa is manned and delivering when in fact it wasn’t and has since been foreclosed on. (see Tony O’s today post on this).His lawyers trying to cover his lies in court there.

  29. Thank you Dave!
    Good luck with your plans of independence for your OT friends!


  30. Welcome Dave and sorry to hear your all too familar story! At least you got to read your declare…I wasn’t even notified of a comm ev much less my declare…but it’s all good, at least you have your eyes open and are on a good road now!

  31. To me, Scientology still is the art and science of communication, but also much more than that, being among other things, the science of “knowing how to know”. Because I was in sales and marketing, I appreciated the communication skills I learned from Scientology, and as the years went on, I expanded my viewpoint about what the philosophy actually was about.

  32. Hi Dave;

    Glad you made it out okay. I like the game of getting the CofS of Toronto cleared. It is a good game. I’d like to do the same thing in Ottawa, clear the CofS here.

  33. Wow Dave – best summation I’ve read for awhile.
    Strange war we’re in hey? Where the casualties of truth believe they are the causative ones. Independant a thetan always is, the rest in by ‘choice’.
    Best of luck to you too.

  34. David Stokes

    Excellent to have you here. I am from Vancouver BC.
    Thank you for a great writeup. I am working on a data eval, and your “outpoints/pluspoints” and other data will come in very handy as first hand data from the Toronto area.

    I am totally behind you on your secret plan, My wife and I are hoping we can help affect a similar result in our area. We feel that it is only a matter of time before it happens somewhere, and then hopefully turns into a landslide.

    I return your offer of getting in touch.. E-mail… windwalker8008(at)

    Eric S

  35. Welcome David,
    Always nice to have new additions to the blog.
    Best of luck with your target of increasing your Indie group in Toronto.
    Recent comm with folks in Denver gives indication that there is growing number under the radar who are getting closer to dropping the CofS connection. The Debbie Cook story is taking it’s toll..

  36. sunshine disinfects

    WOW!!! Love it. Every word. Great knowingness you had!

  37. There is a pattern here. We all go through the basic events described above. Sometimes I wish I got declared when I routed out. I was very close but somehow did not happen. I thought I was very lucky at the time. Now I have family connections that make it very difficult to do the right thing. I feel like I am playing a twisted chess game. I am trying to do things in gradients. I believe for me the middle path is the best. After a very light approach through several months I finally was able to tell my wife about the staff that goes on at INT and what happened to Debbie. She knows now and she is fine. She already had her feelings about things so once I gave her data she had the right reaction. The next person I need to handle is probably impossible to do so. I honestly have not figured out what to do yet. He just has too many connections. Will see what happens.
    I try to apply what I red once in the R&D volumes on how LRH was disseminating Scientology. I don’t remember the title but it is the one where he just brings up an idea that makes the other person start thinking about things.
    I believe the key step in the whole process is to get the individual to look at the data. With me it happened when a critical close family member who I knew was reading staff on the internet and was trying to talk to me about things just casually mentioned that Scientology is alive and well outside of the church. That started me on my own research and here I am now pretty advanced on the road to be fully independent form the suppressive organization I thought had my eternity in their control.
    What I hate the most is all the no answers I have to give and half truths (lies) I have to say but that is just how this game is. I did not create it, I am just trying to survive in ity the best I can.

  38. Wow, is THAT a dose of reality. Very, very refreshing considering that I just watched POB’s presentation of the opening of the Jaffa, Israel, Ideal Org at last October’s IAS Event at St. Hill, which church lawyers have now declared in court that DM is lying throughout.
    Somehow, I don’t get the same feeling after reading Toronto Dave’s announcement. Congratulations, Dave. Welcome. You sound like a man whose integrity is intact despite the best efforts of smaller, fearful people. The other Dave should be so fortunate.

  39. TorontoTheGood

    Hey, David, very well done on keeping in your Code of Honour and sticking with the truth that you found! That is being a real Scientologist. Wonderful idea of helping to lead the way to the recovery of Scientology with a group of courageous OTs.

    Do you know Chris Black? He’s an independent Class VIII in the Toronto area. (Search for “Chris Black Scientology” and you’ll find him.)

  40. Thank you for posting this. It is extremely enlightening. It is so sad but the bit about the toilet paper made me laugh – I can identify with it.

    You asked for suggestions. Here’s one that might work.

    The research you did and things you found out about – all the things you mentioned – get them printed on a sheet of paper( with websites that can be looked up) – have someone stand a bit away from the Org and hand them out to staff or whoever is leaving the Org.

  41. David
    Your declaration of independence mirrors the image of many of us. The lightness of your touch is refreshing as well as powerfully true. Welcome back into the world of sanity and reason where good men and women can freely communicate. and the granting of beingness is as natural as sunshine. The joy of who you are is reflected in your post, and I am happy to have you among us.

    Michael Fairman from Joy’s computer

  42. Bravo Dave!

    From a guy in Montreal

  43. David-welcome to the group of BAD-I’m so bad too.

  44. A pleasure to meet you David Stokes.
    Welcome to the crazy, insouciant Indies. May you have as much fun as I have playing with everyone in the sunshine 😀

  45. Kool on the block

    Wow, David, that was insightful. I know you’re not an SP, so we’ll leave it at that. Good on ya! Oddly, I just wrote this blog article, just now, and then read your announcement. Seems appropriate timing.

  46. Dear Dave,

    Very well stated !
    Your descrition of your Org:

    ” The basic history of this Org is straightforward. Its heydays were the 1970′s. That 10 year period produced several thousand public and several hundred staff (as Jim Logan will attest to). I was one of them. As was Jim. And many of us are still around. Myself and Jim included. And Paul Staffer.

    There was a gradual decline over the last thirty years. Now, in 2012, there is a core group of about 200 Toronto Scientologists. This group is made up of 30 year or 40 year veteran Scientologists and their offspring. About 30 are on Toronto staff. The rest make up the bulk of Toronto’s public. There are about 35 active OT 7′s and 8′s. There are about 15 staff and field auditors who actually audit others on grade chart actions.

    This core group over the years has been abused. They’ve been knocked around. They’ve been through building fires and police raids and government trials and bad press and stupid ED’s and psychotic CO’s and staff rip-offs and suppressive quotas and wrong whys and weird evals and unrealistic promises and no heat and no toilet paper and no fun.

    And still some of them are here. Bedraggled. Bruised. But breathing.”

    This descripion I can assure will fit any Org on this planet ! I can assure you. I I’ve seen many of them !

    Well done !


  47. Hey David,

    It’s possible we’ve crossed paths. While I was basically on lines out west (Edmonton and Vancouver), I did do some services in the Toronto org, including the Decks Project Force in 82-83. You may also know my brother James Black who was on staff around the same time, up on Avenue Road. He was the world’s top Book 1 bookseller. Diana Hubbard wrote up a program to implement his successful actions. He hung around with Nigel Wilson and a little with Jim Logan and a couple of others I can’t remember. But whatever, I’d like to meet you. I think I can help with your “secret plan” and those 25+ OTs who contacted you. Not that it’s a “secret plan” any longer as OSA is lurking here (hi Yvette!), but what the hey, let’s practice Scientology and put some theta into the environment, hey? So contact me. Let’s see if we can shake the rafters of this universe, eh? I’ve sent you and email as well saying the same thing here.

    And hey, congrats to maintaining your position and your integrity. That’s the secret of real power, isn’t it? And I got such a kick out of your continual “NOs” that you kept telling all the robots. Good on you for looking for yourself. I can tell you this, as a Class VIII C/S, if the Church and those in power were truly clean, they would have nothing to hide nor have any fear or worry about someone looking for themselves – on the internet, in books, on TV, wherever. And that’s straight LRH dope, bud. (Eg. HCOB Clean Hands Make A Happy Life; Clean Hands Program; HCOB Withholds, Missed and Partial; etc.).

    You’ve a bright future ahead. Enjoy it. Chris

  48. Dave on you Dave! BTW, did the ED give you any reason that you wouldn’t get a copy of your declare? Did you ask for one? Aren’t people supposed to be given them? It seems with all the discussion about DM’s “squirrel tech,” this is a pretty glaring example.

  49. Typo, I meant, “good on you.”

  50. TroubleShooter

    Well put David. You sound like David Stoked. I’ll bet all those GAT trained staff in the two orgs including the Flag trained Grad V and Class VIII Snr CSes are introverted as hell as to why they are the “only ones” who aren’t exxxxpppaanndING MULTIPLE TIMES OVER like all the other orgs who are!!!!

    Good wishes and success on your plan.

  51. George M. White

    David Stokes,
    Congratulations on your independence. I was in Toronto from 1979-1981.
    There was a mission a few blocks away from the Toronto Org and I took a few courses. I think it was run by Bridgette Manning and her husband?
    I entered Scientology in 1973 same year as you did. I retired from Scientology in 1989 after completing OT8 on the Freewinds.
    If you need help with any of the old-timers in Toronto, I would be happy to assist you. You are doing the right action. Your freedom and your right to self examination are more important than Miscavige’s verbal data.


  52. Bruce Q Hanmond

    David, it’s great to hear your story. It paralells so many others that participate here.

    The disconnection forced by the church sucks but I love your adoption of “be able to experience anything” as personal policy. I try to live that way too.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the loss of the social network of folks in Co$ when you get disconnected, can more than be compensated by the connection to those outside (indies) that have an R-factor on what you know. Or just enjoy the company of non-Scn folks including those that are antagonistic to DM’s nasty cult.

    Enjoy your freedoms.

  53. How dare you imply that David Miscavige (dear leader) is involved in base bodily functions. Have you not heard of public toilets? It’s clear that base bodily functions are a matter for the state. To mention David Miscavige and base bodily functions in the same post is a violation of the seperation of church and state protections of the constitution and so a crime as such you are liable to a fine and a lengthy jail sentence. Please people show some restraint. (Allergy warning: the previous statements may contain traces of humor).

  54. Go grab Paul Staffer, will you? 🙂

  55. David,
    Great write-up. You’re a good writer and had me laughing in a couple of spots. Yes, the lack of toilet paper was one of them. That stuck a nerve with more than a couple people. It’s just so degrading but what else can we expect from any group marching to DM’s drum?
    I think you’ll find a lot of freedom with your newly announced independent state. Breaking the bonds is very liberating.

  56. I, for one, am glad you said, “No.”

    Great write up that could be written about almost any org and its public! Another self-determined being has joined the Indies, awesome news!

  57. What a cool post to read! Congrats! I agree, the Disconnection is the biggest thing people fear the most. However, more than ever people are quielty (for now) lurking and walking away, making their plans to change jobs and get their families all on the same page. It’s only a matter of time before this thing implodes! Your family and friends will eventually come around, until then enjoy creating a new and exciting life.

  58. Clo staff stealing the tord and torf toilet paper and then having to declare in their o/w write-ups. I know i was there. WN.

  59. Lynne – you’re expanding my vocab! In·sou·ci·ant   [in-soo-see-uhnt; Fr. an-soo-syahn] adjective – free from concern, worry, or anxiety; carefree; nonchalant. Origin: 1820–30; < French, equivalent to in- in-3 + souciant present participle of soucier to worry < Vulgar Latin *sollicītāre, for Latin sollicitāre to disturb; see solicitous.

  60. Fantastic! Best wishes.

  61. Worked with claire manning when she was FR CAN. Strong woman.

  62. Dave,

    Welcome, and thank you for your intelligent and heartfelt message to all who learn about real Scientology by reading this blog.

    The state of the Toronto Org is no worse than most orgs in the world — in fact, I guarantee you it is better. THat is a larger staff and field than most orgs. If you have ever visited any of the other orgs in Canada just for starters, you would see what a comparatively flourishing scene you have there in your org! Seriously. And its funny, Toronto has always been proof that a building does NOT make an org. The Toronto org building was bought under the personal direction of LRH as a “BIC” (Building Investment Committee) building. Perfect location. One of the larger Class IV Org buildings (as it was one of the largest Class IV Orgs in the 70’s) and it is still the model for what an ideal org building would be. Of course, it has never been renovated and doesnt have a FART Div 6 and all the glitzy MEST that Miscavige is so fond of, but nevertheless, it proves that a building doesnt make an expanding org. You can have the most perfect building in the world and if it is occupied with untrained, unpaid staff and delivers only crush regging and out tech, it just isnt going to work.

    The “Ideal Org” scam is once again exposed. And of ANY org on planet earth, if Miscavige meant what he said about clearing the planet when all orgs are ideal, the first one to get the Miscavige MEST glitz makeover would have been Toronto — didnt need to find and buy a building at all. Just use the one that’s already there.

    Sorry to go off on a bit of an off-topic rant, and I dont mean to distract from your wonderful write up in any way.

    It’s good to have you here and hope we see some more of your fellow Toronto veterans follow you into the light in the near future.

  63. Hey Pat,

    Totally agree. In Vancouver, many times I went out and bought TP myself so staff and public could go to the washroom. It is such out-PR. I remember fighting for TP on Ad Council when doing Financial Planning and hearing justifications why we had to allocate that money to SO Reserves or Building Fund Account or GOLD. And I remember not finding any in Toronto a couple of times as well. It’s a crime when there’s so many billions stashed away by DM and IAS that comes from LOCAL PEOPLE, LOCAL PUBLIC, NOT EVEN SO MONIES!!!

  64. Dave Stokes (aka Toronto Public)

    Dennis & Isabelle,

    Thank you for the very kind words.
    It’s good to meet up with you both again.
    It’s been a while, hasn’t it?
    You will hear from me shortly, Dennis.

    Christ … how could I have forgotten those bloody broken elevators!
    My overts are so goddam obvious sometimes.

    And many thanks to everyone else (above and below) who took time to comment.

    I wish you all well.

    Dave Stokes (aka Toronto Public)

  65. Welcome Dave!!!!!!
    At least they showed you your Declare. I found out from a others around the planet who had been called in, shown the order and ordered to disconnect. F- -k two tone Tommy and his lies on the disconnect policy.
    I admire the “it’s their loss” VP and adopted the same. At the same time I am saddened concerning the kids.
    As you know you are in great company here. It’s an awesome free and real group. No need to be robotic or fearfull as an Indy!!!!
    Hook up with Chris Black and Pierre (who returns March 3rd) and enjoy the freedom with your new group!
    Thanks for your contribution here. YOU ROCK!

  66. Great write up David. Its Nice to see you here.

  67. David, you cracked me up!!!!! what a great write-up!!!!! “I left the building”! I can totally duplicate that.

    Was David Felske a relative of Betty’s, the first OT VIII who passed away?

    You have a great attitude and will go far. Thanks for your write-up!

  68. You’re right David, they are almost incestuous!
    Scientologists are no longer a 3D but a big 2D. And god, what a hell if one of the offspring goes in 2D with a “wog”! They advocate the “difference of reality”. The newcomer wiil have to be pushed up the bridge! They are all interconnected, scientologists are going soon to be a race! Some have already a “corporate scientology face” (very much looking like a typical middle class PTS).
    So when one goes overnight SP (no new SP because no new public!), he looses all his big 2D. I know of some crazy story. The girl goes to the SO, blows, get declared, and lost her LOVING parents and all cousin, brother and sister. All alone in life. And I can tell you, they loved her very much, because they are loving and caring people, not druggy/drunky-wog-peace of shit. But if the church says “disconnect!”, they do! How bloody insane!
    Anyway, well done David Stokes for your statement. Now, I think the next statement should maybe not on leaving the church but on firing Miscavige. There is nothing really fully wrong with the church. It is him who should be com eved, declared, expelled. He is the only target.

  69. Dan,
    Whatdya mean Dave is lying throughout? I haven’t seen this video. Please, elaborate for me? Dave lie! Church lawyers contradict the Dave!! Huh!?

  70. I’ve been out for over a year-and-a-half now, and despite the vast number of declarations I’ve read, I never tire of reading the next one.

    Welcome to the independent field!

    It’s a grand place.

    – Ron Matlock

  71. Jim,

    Check out Tony Ortega’s latest post.

    Dave caught with his pants down again….

  72. Hi David,

    Don’t want to give you a full ack here, given recent history, so here is a half ack. The way out IS the WAY THROUGH. RCS can not deal with actual, honest case change, so robotism is the order of the day. “Bad boy” valences are only allowed in the RCS if you are a super duper platinum butt kisser meritorious (WITH golden toilet paper leaves). Out here, meh.
    Up is up.


    Tom F

  73. Spot-on! Welcome, Dave.

  74. Nice to meet you bad bad, Mr. No No No Dave. 😉

    The data you put together here, without all the hype and PR BS and justifications of DM’s group, is really disgusting each and every time I read it.

  75. Stokes,
    For some reason my original comment didn’t come on. So here’s a second version.

    HOLY CATS!!!! I haven’t seen you in ages. God you made me laugh reading your write up.

    Good ol’ Trono Org. All those names and guys I haven’t seen for so long. Does me ‘eart good to see them still hanging in there. Some day soon, Toronto will recover its glory and actually deliver actual Scientology again. That’s all it took to fill it. Good service, for a fair exchange, and delivered to results.

    Secretly, say Hi to George Matz for me. Shhhhhh. Don’t let him know it’s you or me doing that.

  76. Random Stranger


    That’s the last straw! That’s it! I’m done with the church FOREVER!!

    You not only have to read non-LRH books and use non-LRH definitions and bleed money out through your neck veins AND lick floors AND be beaten and humiliated, but…


    Parishioner: “There’s no toilet paper.”

    E/O: “You expel. You SP.”

    Parishioner: “LRH’s words have been altered.”

    E/O: “You mutiny. Expulse to you. Golden Rod you.”

    Parishioner: “The head of the church commits, encourages and condones violence.”

    E/O: “You Eternity cancel!”

    Parishioner: “Lots of big fancy expensive buildings to please Tom Cruise.”

    E/O: “You R/S! Disconnect you! Apostater! Lie! Overt! Crime! SP Person! Treason!! You PDH!”

    Parishioner: “What can I do to straighten this out?”

    E/O: “You buy Basics!! Lick floor like dog!! Deliver blow to enemy!! Put video camera on head!!!”

    Parishioner: “What about the toilet paper?”

    E/O: “You no privilege toilet paper! Use hand!!!! Make go right!!!! More basics!!!!! You buy now!!!!!!!! I bird dog you! You prospect!!!! You counter! I save planet! You parishioner! You pay!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, where you go?”

    Parishioner: “To get toilet paper!”

    E/O: “You enemy!! Non-comply! You blow! You suppress!!!”

    Parishioner: “Shut the fuck up.”

  77. Chris,
    There was another Bookseller, John Cobin (spelling?) that could sell DMSMH like nobody’s business. He was spectacular.

    I went out with him once, door to door cold calling and selling DMSMH. I used to sell them on the street in London and Toronto. Just stand there on a busy corner and talk to people. Get them to look at the book and with two-way comm, get them to be interested enough to buy one.

    Now I realize, since David Miscavige cleared it up for me, that what I should have been doing was putting them in front of a video of HIM, and never mind that complex book stuff.

    I wonder if Dave ever actually got a single person, himself, into Scientology or ever, himself, directly sold or placed in another person’s hand, DMSMH.

  78. Who wants to bet that a Programm came down today from WDC directly to each Continantal CMO titled 5.4x YOUR STRAIGHT UP AND VERTICAL STATS WITH TOILET PAPER. For the next two weeks this will be the most important Programm shoved down the Orgs through the LRH Comm, FBO, D/FBO MORE and Of course the Flag Rep networks through daily compliance reports with photos of each bathrooms three times a day.

  79. Hi David – I am delighted to see you post here. Nobody could keep you down! Enjoy your freedom.

  80. It’s becoming ever clearer that a Golden Age of Toilet Paper is needed. (A probable Why is that the blind have been wiping the blind).

  81. Minor question to Karen #1,

    Was Ron Shafron a Class 12 C/S? And is he alive, and anyone know what he’s up to, if alive?

  82. +1 Great write up Dave – welcome, and well done on standing firm and holding on to your personal integrity.

  83. Yes Ingrid, you are, wicked!!! I’ll be 50 in a few days but still a naughty schoolboy – according to my wife anyway.

  84. Mike,
    Your mention of “BIC” reminded me of how the recent opening of the “Cincinnati” org (in Kentucky) is in such complete violation of the BIC criteria. Supposed to locate central in the city and ON or NEAR the public transportation. Instead the new building is 27 miles out of town and, according to a recent post on this blog, has NO public transportation at all. Further proof of the squirrel admin and complete ignoring of the correct LRH reference.

    Yes, the building does NOT make an org. The purpose, intent, and actions of the staff and public make it a big booming org. Reading David’s detailed analysis leaves no doubts or questions as to why the org’s are crashing into oblivion. Tis only in the world of the Independent that the goals, dreams and purposes of Scientology still burn brightly!

    David – welcome to the world of the free beings!

  85. Outstanding declaration, Dave! Glad to have you here.
    Love your plan and your determinism. Well done on keeping your integrity regardless of the personal cost. This speaks volumes of you.


    P.S.: The Toronto Org sounds like it’s booming compared to what once was my org, “Mighty Orange County.”

  86. Welcome out David. Thanks for your tale from the North. Seems you’ve been independent for a while, kudos to you for maintaining your personal integrity and wish for full success for your plans!

  87. Oh, I see. So Dave contradicted the Dave, himself. That’s different.

  88. Awesome write up, Dave.

    You mean Sue Sisson is still there and drinking koolaid?

    I had thought she was a good tech terminal way back when I was staff in Vancouver. Some of the people I knew and respected back in the old days have become absolute masters at the fine art of not-isness, haven’t they?


  89. Hi Karen:

    Do you mind naming the eight class XII’s who were made by L. Ron Hubbard and when they were declared?

  90. David,
    I honor your courage and integrity of the highest order. Its the stuff of heros!

  91. Freedom Fighter

    PS A lot more than 18 of the 54 Class XIIs got SP declared. Exact head count is over 30. Note that Ray Mithoff and John Eastment up lines at INT BASE are declared even though we have not seen the issues. There are only 9 Class XIIs left at Flag. Down from 24 in 1982 ! No replacement Class VIIIs or XIIs are being made. NOTE: All 8 Class XIIs trained by LRH are declared, that’s right, all 8 of them, I was the last one , hanging on like you did, finally surreptitiously declared ~~ I had to obtain the issue by other means, hidden in a locked cabinet in HCO ! Out of 8 Class XII CSes EVER made, 5 are declared SP and 2 are dead.

    This data, alone, should be enough to get the average Scientologist to take a step back and at least ask WTF??!! This data alone!! It sickens me that this has occurred. Truly amazing!

  92. Great write-up, Dave! Welcome out! I lost some folks, too, but can look the one I will never lose in the eye in the mirror each day. Thanks for your courage.

  93. FCDC Class of 74

    I agree with everyone here when I say welcome. It would be nice to see all of Toronto walk away from the “building” and continue doing Ron’s work, thus keeping Scientology working, maintaining friends and family and at least receiving the fruits of your labour. It is time to take the things impeding the trip up the bridge and put it towards our advantage. No more lining the pockets of the greedy. Redirect our efforts towards humanitarian (best action doing the most beneficial for the dynamics) endevours. We can again help those in need in or neighborhoods and around the world. We invite you as a friend.

  94. Freedom Fighter

    Welcome, Dave! Excellent coming out letter. I can say that I’ve donated my share to keep the doors open/lights on/phones working/bathrooms stocked with toilet paper, etc. at my local Org and Mission. In our area, a resentment toward public had arisen for “not doing enough to help”. If you weren’t going to be on staff, you were expected to be a cash cow.

    Isn’t it interesting the can’t have/must have that is run in on the Legs and Missions by old Davey (Miscavage) boy. Truly amazing!

  95. Freedom Fighter

    Autocorrect strikes again. Should be “Orgs” not “Legs”…

  96. Mr. Stokes,

    Nice summation. Thorough and concise.

    Allow me to add that Psychotic Pygmy Sociopaths, like POB, think they’re immune to justice.

    Well hell, diarrhea is now hitting the fan 360 degrees.

    Side note to POB: Enjoy the ‘breeze’ you sicko.

  97. Out of curiosity, what happened to all orgs the size of Old Hill, as the prerequisite to the release of OT IX and X that Miscavige announced, oh, I forget, maybe1990?

    I think back then we all thought that surely must have come from some LRH SO order or some such.

    Amazing how that has morphed into the Ideal Org scene, and not a mention of OT IX or X since.

  98. … correction, Old Saint Hill.

  99. Your humble servant


    Thank you for this account. You haven’t said when you concluded this 4 year sojourn, although I imagine it’s still the same now as it was then. When was it?

  100. Hello David and welcome!

    Loved your write up and the straight scoop. I liked your repeated No’s to shut up. A good outspoken Scientologists, too bad if someone doesn’t like exposing the truth in observation of outpoints.

    RJ 68 for your friends if they want to hear LRH in his own voice cancelling disconnection and why he did it.

    Great to have you hear.

    Ann Howe aka Tim Swanson

  101. Is Ray Mitoff really declared?!

  102. Your humble servant


    Thank you for yet another brilliant contribution to this blog! Just the one fact alone that “All 8 Class XIIs trained by LRH are declared” constitutes, by itself, undeniable, irrefutable, overwhelming proof that the current organization is corrupt, false and off-the-rails. It is conceivable, I guess, that ONE of the eight could be a “suppressive person,” although that would seem to me to be extremely unlikely. After all, how would you get to be a Class VIII, personally trained by Ron, if you were in fact “out of valence,” and a psychotic and a suppressive person as defined and discussed in relevant tapes and bulletins? How would that have occurred? Surely someone would have noticed!

    Now, to say that all eight of them are “suppressive persons” is just absolutely nuts, and the statement–all by itself, with no other evidence at all–proves that the current organization is loco!

  103. Dave,
    What an amazing write up! I wasn’t exposed to all the hostile acts that you and many others have experience over the years. And I’m so thankful that my FSM pulled me aside and finally told me she too had left COS for some similar reasons. I was shocked to hear of what caused her breaking point, and it is so similar to many other stories that I’ve read here on Marty’s blog.

    I’m sure you have found relief somewhere in these last years to come out and finally tell us your story and I want to say, “Well Done…”

    Hopefully those who are considering joining the church will get a chance to read all the horrific stories of long-time members that they will reconsider. However, there is so much hope still available for anyone wanting to experience a technology that is SO Amazing. So for all you auditors still helping get PC’s up the bridge, I’m truly proud to be part of this dynamic

  104. LOL,

    Sounds like a comm cycle from a mid-east training camp.

    Good laughs 🙂

  105. Hi Oracle,
    I read “Wild Swans” a long time ago when it was still recently published. I loved it – in fact, I can vividly remember crying like a baby when I completed the book – it is truly life changing. Their suffering was incredible, the evil – well really, really evil 😦

    I have always strongly recommended that book to anyone who would listen.

  106. Greetings Chuck.
    Ron Shaffron better known as Shaffy was CS 4 for a short spell.
    CS 4 means Commodore’s Staff 4 (Tech Division).
    He was only very briefly an Ls auditor ~~ less than a year ~~ and he fled with his wife Linda and got declared at a time where a huge bunch of Class XIIs got declared including Murray Chopping, Leon Steinberg, Brian Livingston (now a successful architect in Orange County, CA) Alex Gerber, David and Merrill Mayo, Paulette Ausley.
    Pierre Ethier’s Class XII list is flawed with an amount of errors including naming names that did not even do internships like John Ausley and Mike Maurer (they only studied the courses, (Ausley did not even finish the courses) and never passed/graduated any of the interneships and never had their certs signed by LRH which was done with all Apollo trained Class XIIs)
    A Class XII title assumes the gruelling interneships are done and graduated, not a mere study of a few bulletins as John Ausley (deceased) and Mike Maurer. did. Maurer blew the Sea org 3x and has recently been touting a letter he sent Debbie Cook saying how wonderful it all it is within the Radical “Church” which begs the question why did he blow 3x if it was that wonderful IN the church ?
    No updated info on Shaffy.
    Alain Kartunsuski Class XII CS and Richard Reiss Class XII CS both died of cancer while staff at the Flag Land Base, even though they may have physically died at a hospice.

  107. Ray Mithoff has been a punching bag for David Miscavige.
    He has been kicked, beaten, punched, assaulted, humilated and mortally wounded spiritually..
    He, like Heber Jentzsch has spent years in SP hole.
    He has been verbally declared by Miscavige numerous times.
    Did you not read the book “Blown for Good?” my Marc Headley.
    Numerous ex RTC thatr post on this site have told further stories of Ray Mithoff.
    Miscavige having castrated and pulverized him, then took over the senior tech position inventing the broadsweep rule of 3 needle swings to call an FN (a one time LRH comment taking wholly out of context and made into a Law.)
    Also hallucinating his power as Senior CS so that he “called” the Clear Status of Lisa Mcpherson 3 weeks before her death by watching her on video in a live session.
    Miscavige has been THE ruler that has enforced 6 month sec checks on those auditing solo nots, where Millions are sucked in for the Flag Land Base on these $10,000 per intensive costs for the 3000 or so that return religiously every six months to cough up their “CRIMES” and overts and witholds.

    You do the math on the $$$$$ for Flag. Show me the money, baby, show me the money.

  108. Part of that may be the small issue of not having anything real to release…

  109. Welcome David, nicely done. I sent you an email about some friends up that way about 30 minutes ago. Welcome to the group.

  110. Your humble servant


    That is a fantastic, fascinating account, very punchy and to the point, with an admirable adherence to exact times, places, forms and events! One cannot help but agree with what you say.

    You have addressed questions that are difficult to confront, complex and fraught with potential pain. How is it that hardworking, dedicated staffs can be freed from the suppression they are laboring under? Besides the factors that you mentioned, including the very burdensome problem of “disconnection,” staff also have the strong conviction that if they simply quit they will be letting down their friends and depriving the earth of its one best hope of salvation. They believe that if all the orgs were to shut their doors that Scientology would be extinguished– to earth’s great woe. They do not realize that Scientology is alive and well outside the org and outside the official organization–increasingly so all the time.

    The staff do not realize that their efforts are actually being wasted. Scientology, within the official church, is not expanding anyway. The general acceptance of Scientology by the world is not growing anyway–despite their best efforts. David Miscavige has made sure of that! They are producing few releases and Clears anyway. The products at the “top of the bridge” within the church–OT VIIs and VIIIs–are today no longer real products (beings with greater wisdom, compassion, ability, and causativeness)–certainly not uniformly so–but they are necessarily, to one degree or another, cowed counterfeits and fakes! Except for the upset to their fellow staff members, which cannot be avoided, staff simply walking away would do no harm at all!

    Those who attack the church, and attack the subject of Scientology, make the mistake of not understanding this and attacking the wrong thing. They think, or say they think, that Scientology is bad. Scientology is NOT bad. Suppression is bad, misapplication is bad, misunderstanding is bad. Scientology is supposed to address and cure all of those bad things, and, properly applied, it actually does so.

  111. Nicely put Claire.

  112. Slipping the time stream for a few moments, I found some Toronto Scientologists celebrating their newly declared Independence……

  113. “Kathy and Emile Gilbert, Bryan Levman, Gary and Donna Jepson, Rosi Levman and others….” Yes, so many others, Kathy (nee Wilkens), Emile, Brian and Rosie, Ann Archer, and what’shername, the C/S who married the famous musician…, were declared during some fiasco of the, what. late 1970’s? It seems all the execs, with the few exceptions of Paul Anderson, Fred Hare, and a very few others were declared. Serious mind-boggle on this. Would love to run out the group engram on this, knowing I only have piecemeal data.

  114. I sold you your BC a couple zillion years ago. Enjoyed all that wound up in that. Impressed with your good cheer and friendliness.

    I think that is a fine idea you have about getting your old friends together and having a chat. Tory Christman’s “coming out” story is a fine template of the right way to influence others. A church “enemy” talked with her, with decency and respect and it melted her ridges and the communication got through. Make a churchie wrong and you might have a you-can-be-right fight on your hands; treat them with courtesy and respect and reason and I bet you’ll win many over.

    Just because others are told to disconnect from you does not mean that you have to disconnect from others. Any Scientologist with any training at all and any intention at all can get a comm line in and another to listen.

    Ron’s advices in PTS handling of good roads and good weather and not antagonizing work just as well for an Independent in regards to “handling” the church-affiliated Scientologist. Now there’s a real PTS!

    A half dozen were willing to talk with you personally about it, the other 194 of those 200, each of them, have each had nice long chats with their consciences about this and other similar events and none of them are pleased.

    Fact of the matter is, in the corporate C of S, almost everyone is “half in and half out of Scientology”… they’ve seen so much of things like what you are experiencing right now that it’s became a very tough act to continue to juggle all the outpoints and make any sense at all of any of it.

    I think if you go in and talk with those guys the broom handles and plates and bowling pins are just going to start to fall.

    From “Contact with the Public” tape: “All you have to do to demonstrate senior survival is continue to communicate; I don’t mean monotonously, but when they all think you’re dead, say something.”

    The E/O there and others might think your dead. After all, you’re declared! Surprise them all. “… say something”

    “Communicate and continue to communicate.”

  115. Dave, loved your write up and your tenacity. Welcome to independence. It feels really good.

  116. Hi David,
    Great you made it through the front door but this time in reversed direction;-)
    It is still scary to see how the church, that was supposed to use Scientology to make you LOOK, in reality is forcefully trying to make you TOTALLY BLIND for your environment.
    We can see Black Dianetics and Black Scientology in full bloom here.

    Thanks for sharing your win!

  117. Great Post, I totally agree!

  118. one of those who see

    Hi Dan! Excellent!

  119. one of those who see

    Hi David!
    Truth, Truth Truth. No Q and A, and so clearly stated. Wow. Great write up!

  120. Tony DePhillips

    Hi David!
    Very well done for having the courage to do the right thing.
    It’s men and women like you that will help make the difference in turning the tide of suppression and help to get Scientology back on track.
    The truth is, you are the OT in your area that has the ability to percieve the correct situation and has the guts to act on your perceptions.
    Thanks very much and it would be great to see you at the Indie party if you can make it!!

  121. Tony DePhillips

    The “no toilet paper” thing must be universal!! 🙂

  122. Welcome, Dave. Excellent write up and summation of how you arrived at this point in your life. Wishing you great success.

  123. Hey there! The book was recommended to me by BB (Terrill Park), who I think was engaged to the author. For someone, anyone, who has been engaged with the Church culture it is a mind blowing shock! It is as if that culture migrated here and took possession of the Church. It has devolved into 1940’s communist China social intercourse. I almost feel as if I am reading a book written by someone who left the Sea Org! Anyway, if you liked that one you will also like “Memoirs of a Geisha”. That story time runs through WWll Japan and, it has a happy ending. These stories are good to read because you come to understand we are not actually going through anything too new with the Church culture and a single dictator. Many people all over the Earth have had to endure, and rise above these kinds of situations, and they came out of it O.K. and for the better. Thanks for the feedback!

  124. Disconnect if you have to
    hate me now it’s what you gotta do
    to play the game you know you have to
    follow the rules, the rules that they give you

    Cast aside all the good times
    when you’re making up your mind
    when you’re trying to decide
    who of your friends are really on your side

    Little words that were written on a page
    never tell me what I can think or say
    No one is gonna have that over me
    I can speak of anything I see

    You were angry when you found out
    We were friends until it came out
    I was welcome til I woke up
    asking some questions and I spoke up

    So let them tell you how it should be
    who you know and who you cant see
    it doesn’t feel right, don’t worry
    cut the comm line in a letter and you’ll be free

    Little words that were written on a page
    Should never tell you what you can think or say
    no one should ever have that over you
    You can speak of anything, yeah it’s true

  125. Karen, if Ray Mithoff is declared, who is the current Snr C/S INT?????

  126. Right on about integrity and great on the children!

  127. Li'll bit of stuff

    Dave…………Yes! …..A resounding yes, to the entirety of your
    post and to every single reply given here. You guys and gals
    are absolutely bang on with your assessments and with so
    much agreement, establish an unshakable reality. This reality
    is unfolding naturally, comfortably and without coercion or
    duress of any kind. A far cry from the norm in the Church
    of In$anity, where a constant fear of persecution exists, unless
    one behaves in accordance with the “mind control” ordered by
    David Miscavige. The VFP of David Miscavige? Sheeple People!
    manufactured en mass, to be exploited mentally and financially
    without regret or remorse (EN MASS)

    Gross out point David Miscavige! Enforcing a world WITH insanity, WITH criminals and WITH war…where the previously
    ABLE are now now in free fall to greater “lows” and honest
    beings are stripped of their rights……..these are the aims of
    Miscavology !
    You, DM are the collective CORE (CAUSE) of everything that is/went wrong with the legacy of the fully workable spiritual technology of L Ron Hubbard.

    I urge any doubters and hoverers, wake up from your mind
    altered, hypnotized, confusion and LOOOOOKKKKK!!!!!

    Li’ll bit

  128. RS-That last line is what parishioners should be saying!

  129. LOL, Jim. Love that Canadian humour! You did know that DM was the catalyst and role model for “The Story of a Static”?

  130. It was mid 1995 to March 1999..following that I worked on cruise ships until late 2007. so a fair bit of travelling and stopped in Orgs when I had the chance. Once in Minnepolis I attended an IAS event and emptiied my pockets to donate to the event. Left myself bus fare to get home. We have all done that!!

  131. one of those who see

    Sapere, thanks for the clarification. I thought there was a new org opening up in Kentucky. LOL ofcourse not. Just a new building for Cinci.

  132. Dave Stokes, I just want you to know that you are a rock star!
    I love your style and humor! Wish you best!
    Much respect, Andrew Organ (aka Stat).

  133. one of those who see

    Definitely !!

  134. I have seen the video in the article and would like to comment on two points.
    1. I am glad they make E-meters now available for the co-auditing-teams.
    2. They have rather well disciplined staff. None of the 200 of them showed even a shadow in the film. I cannot imagine that they have used photoshop to delete them all out of the pictures. The only bad spot of their character can be detected when searching the last view. They spoiled the view of the front side. Pretty self-centered of them to appear on that one. Someone should write a report to RTC.

  135. The video doesn’t have anything to do with the song. It was some stuff from a lego movie I was making with my son. It kind of works though. The transformer guy is scary.

  136. SO TRUE!!! When it comes to communication, Scientology “wrote the book.” Disconnection??! Whatever happened to “CONTACT, HANDLE, SALVAGE, AND BRING TO UNDERSTANDING”?!

    Excellent declaration, Dave! Welcome to independence.

  137. How come I “hear” the dialogue with a German accent?

  138. “Exteriorization is simply that mechanism of being able to depart from or have a distance between self and some havingness. That’s all it is.”
    (Aberration and the Sixth Dynamic, 13. Nov 1956)
    Best Wishes.

  139. ANN ARCHER was declared suppressive? She’s TOMMY DAVIS’ mother!

  140. There is something very weird in the Scientology org culture about toilet paper. Back to the 60s and 70s even, nearly every org (and some missions) I have been in has had a problem justifying the purchase of toilet paper! What gives with that!?!?!? Where does such niggardly thinking originate? I really don’t know!

    It’s a HYGIENE issue!!

    Wonder if the Ideal Orgs are carrying this primitive custom forward?


  141. Good luck, David. Thank you for sharing your write up and stories. Sounds like you will be making a better life for yourself now!

  142. Very interesting Karen. Under Mao Tse-tung’s communist re education, he was afraid of the intellectuals . In the beginning he managed witch hunts against them killing off the majority of them, and then towards the end, just labeled them all “undesirables” and they were afforded only the lowest positions in society if permitted to exist at all.

  143. Thank you Karen very much for your precise data. It is horrible. Do you know if the mother of Annie Tidman has gotten the information about her daughter´s death? Jean Tidman was one of the first SO members. She was the recording engineer when one of “Welcome to SO” lectures was given by LRH: There is heavy storm as background. The worst thing for a mother is when own child is dying. And when she was not infoed about it.

  144. Defender of Theta

    Spot on.

    I don’t know if anyone has ever been “made wrong into a cognition.” Usually, if you punch someone in the face, all you ensure is that they close their eyes. Then hit back.

    We know, technically, that attacks CAUSE a person to activate a service fac.

    2WC, data, etc. may not work at first or with all people, but at least they have a chance and, minimally, can plant some seeds. How long it takes those seeds to grow is another question. But, all processes have a start and take as long as they take.

    Heck, we commonly report it takes US four years or so to sort out the false data and to “de-compress!

    I have gotten several people liberated with this approach, whereas an assault would have just cut my line to them.


  145. Defender of Theta

    David, well done!

  146. Centurion, you said: ” But I bet his personal toilet paper is damn near made of silk.”.

    Well, I would bet that Miscavige doesn’t use toilet paper at all, but instead he has a Department in his personal Org Board called WCOBA (Wipe CoB,s Ass), manned by some specially selected “Loyal Officer” who is on call 24/7 and who follows him to the toilet wherever he is and wipes his midget ass.
    I will leave other experts here to figure out the VFP of this important hat, as well as that of the other poor unfortunate sods who lick his toilet clean.

    And I am sure he also has a Sec checker who daily sec checks the WCOBA
    I/C with questions like:

    Have you ever had unkind thoughts about CoBs ass?

    Have you ever wiped CoBs ass without having thoroughly disinfected your hands?

    Of course the stats for the willing holder of this post would always be in an Emergency trend unless his beloved CoB happens to get diarrhea.
    But in spite of the punishments for being downstat and daily sec checks, this poor sob remains loyal on account of he doesn’t want to jeopardize his Eternity or face disconnection.

    Check it out, the above is probably the truth.


  147. Pass the Scotch


    One of the best write-ups I’ve read in a long time– succinct, poetic, and powerful. Your integrity shines through.

    One question: Were you ever married to LOIS STOKES? She was a Class VIII, but I don’t know from which org.

    If so, whatever happened to her?

  148. I guess we are going to hear more such controversies. The empire is crumbling.

  149. Dave Stokes from Toronto,

    Welcome to the greatest pool of Freedom, Truth, Love and Courage of the Century. Enjoy your freedom and stay with the truth with courage and love.


  150. Hi David:) Although I do not believe in Independent Scientology as I think this is a misnomer, I enjoyed very much reading your article.

  151. “Hi David!” and Congratulations!
    It’s such a refreshing refrain getting to say that without being angry about typing the name ‘David’. Thank You.

  152. Due to being a hard core ex Scio I rarely post here, but I have to say this is one of the best announcement posts I have ever read. Thank you kind sir for your courage and intelligence. And massively huge hugs to you.


  153. Well Done Sir!!

  154. Thanks for the data. I highly respect your comments Karen
    I say again Its beggers belief that Know notification of concern has been told outside about their friends inside or if so doesn’t seem to be getting through , also reporting in what state they may be in NOW / Let alone the conditions held under/ threat / degraded / and torture its unbeleivable. Books are made public News acticles / spread Wide and media courage, Yet where are the authorities. ? Why isn’t anything being done.These people are humans and some one should be kicked in authorthy about this blindness.
    And why are blind eyes being turned with an apparency of the unknown or little action / and as to if or when will some thing get done. The
    introvention from Authorities before more lives are gone. Theirs enough about that already.
    The Church /vs Cooks opening trial hopefully did wake up those
    will kick start action, Thanks to Debbie Cook / and all the support Marthy and his team gave / But then is this wishful thinking.

  155. I was heart broken to here Alain Kartunsuski died , a personal friend
    who I knew and couldn’t get com to him, Whats happened to his wife?
    Both were french .They use to be very good friends with alan Roseneburg
    former CC Paris /and he ran into hassle with the court case on CC there.
    I was pleased to know Brian Livingston is doing well.
    Is Minty and Rick Alexandra still in? I heard from reliable source Rick was in the Uk recently promoting ideal Orgs and there event/ s

  156. Theo Sismanides

    Hahaha… Tony… you cracked me up… I also wanted to comment on it but you got me fully covered! Maybe some cool aid drinkers should start donating toilet paper!

  157. Theo Sismanides

    Dave, a truly fantastic post! Very objective and analytical. I am so thankful and happy for what you have done. It took you 5 years and that’s a long time…. The more we get the faster this process will be for every Scientologist to have a cognition on what is really going on. Thanks.

  158. Mike,

    This really shows how much trouble they are in, when their own attorneys in order to protect their client, presumably COS Israel, have to throw DM under the bus to even have a semblance of hope of defending their client.

    But even their argument doesn’t make sense …DM lied for the benefit of the donors that the work was done and 200 staff were in place, trained and delivering Scientology, not a slight detail or ooops …. wholesale lie.

    If they falsified information for the benefit of donors, that doesn’t make sense either … you don’t publicly lie about finishing a multi million dollar building and placing 200 staff trained and delivering Scientology. That cuts of donations, not accelerates it, unless you are lying to say it is done because you have failed to perform and should have performed, or broke performance promises.

    Or, perhaps, DM actually didn’t know it wasn’t done and he was lying, and his few remaining supporters at Int are in a conspiracy, setting him up by lying to the entire world openly in ways that have significant legal consequences.

    The only problem with this, even if there is a full blown internal conspiracy to drive DM out is that he has already thwarted a number of these, he has thwarted too many to be able to say there is another one.

    0. The German Government
    00. The Australian government
    1. The mission holders
    2. The GO
    3. The German Government
    4. Mayo
    4a. RTC, Vicki Aznaran/Jesse Prince.
    5. The German Government
    6. LRH Hisself
    6a. ASI, all those pesky conn men that stole LRHs money under DMs guidance and supervision requiring him to take extreme action of getting donations from public to make up for his catastrophic losses.
    7. The IRS
    8. The German government
    9. The Australian Government
    10. Marty Rathbun (COS stated in legal documents that Marty was the rein of violence, ending in 2004 and everything has been great since, reference Marc/Claire Headley vs COS case)
    11. Mike Rinder, years later was also the rein of violence.
    12. Tom Devo was also the head of the rein of violence
    13-296. Other SPs declared in SP hall or otherwise kicked off the base that were the source of the rein of violence
    297. Debbie Cook, secretly declared 4 years ago, secret even to herself, but openly allowed to communicate with all Scientologists, her presence the real reason for crashed stats internationally for the last 30 years.
    298, Massive victory over Psychiatry saving 37 trillion people.
    299. Victory over Australian suppression, Brian Seymour and Nick Xenophon cowering in holes, requiring massive further donations of money from Scientologists to burn in piles around them so they can’t escape.
    300. German government financing Marty to finance Debbie, but sometimes Debbie is controlling Marty, or is it Wayne creating an international conspiracy of intrigue having affairs with world leaders wives in coordination with the pharmaceutical companies and international bankers.

    Don’t forget the straight up and vertical expansion that has come about each time one of the above major pieces of suppression was removed from Church lines.

    Would seriously suck to be DM now. He is running out of people to turn into enemies if he still wants someone around to wash his underwear and walk his dog. There are so many lies, including in court records, that it is impossible for them to keep straight.

  159. PS
    And I really feel sorry for the poor WCOBA I/C when his stat crashes to N/E when Dear Leader gets constipated after reading Marty’s Blog.


  160. Excellent analysis Michael.

    Only thing I disagree with is that he is running out of people to make enemies. He has not yet gotten to the Red Cross, Girl Scouts, ASPCA, NAACP and a lot of others. And make no mistake, he CAN make an enemy out of anyone. He could turn Jimmy Carter and Nelson Mandela into rabid anti-Scientologists.

  161. That would be David Miscavige — also covering President CSI, ED Int, WDC Chairman, CO CST, Int Landlord, CO OSA Int, as well as Sparring Partner, Mannequin, Torture I/C, Chief Liar and Senior Whiner.

  162. Leonore,
    The Org’s FPs (Financial Planning) didn’t approve the purchace of TP because we were all Thetans and male Thetans don’t need to take a shit, and girl Thetans don’t need to wipe their exhaust pipe. Also because if you were a Thetan, you were supposed to Make It Go Right! Makes sense now? :))
    Old timer Alex

  163. I think it must have to do with some Butt Wipes at the top of the food chain usin’ it all up.

  164. Tony,

    That’s just because DM hasn’t gotten around to documenting the Golden Age of Toilet Paper Tech, piloted and developed in Australia in the late 70s and early 80s, proud to say I was part of the pilot. It is based around staff and public going into public toilets and restaurant toilets, “harvesting” wads of TP (the rolls themselves are generally secured against theft so you have to unroll them), shoving it in our pockets or under shirts or jackets and proudly running back to the orgs, or the FOLO and sharing with our friends. Also, if it is very cold and you don’t have proper clothes, you can take off your shirt, wrap toilet paper around you as insulation, and be warm as you walk back to your org in the dead of winter with only a polyester uniform shirt on.

    The new “Scientology” has tech for everything. Don’t forget that my dear man.

  165. You’ll lough.
    I remember one int event where he tried to degrade the Dalai Lama.
    He allegedly worked together with a “psych” (it was Paul Ekman).
    Anyone who has seen the work of P. Ekman will see that this is not the “target psych”.
    (Even the COLRH ED “The Genius” where LRH gives a proper definition of a “genius” (24 Qualities That Geniuses Have in Common) is from the work of a clinical psychologist Dr. Alfred Borrios.

    This whole thing didn’t make any sense to me then. And it doesn’t now.
    Buddhism is very well known for its positive influence on the whole subject of western psychology. Let the Dalai Lama influence any psych on earth – good for us.

    He indeed CAN make an enemy out of anyone.

  166. Way to go David! Good luck with helping more wake up. Don’t forget those stuck out in the woods of Mono, Ontario.

  167. Further on the Ideal Orgs scam.

    Miscavige showed up to “open” an “Ideal Org” in Florence, Kentucky (the “Cincinnati” org) before a crowd of less than 1000 people (according to their own press release) who came from across 5 states (this number does include his full personal security detail which was estimated as at least a dozen).

    As is his habit, he pompously spewed forth Shermanspeak(r) hypocrisy, including the following:

    “With the inauguration of this new Church comes a sacred pledge to employ the technology of Dianetics and Scientology in the same spirit with which L. Ron Hubbard originally forged it. Which is to say, to apply it broadly, unsparingly, indiscriminately and to the full extent of its power for bettering lives and uplifting populations by engendering kindness, compassion, nobility of the spirit and a love of humanity.”

    Miscavige pontificating on how his church engenders kindness, compassion, nobility and a love of humanity is beyond even his usual ability to lie with a straight face.

    The church press release also stated that this is the “third” new church to open this year — the other two being Sacramento and Hamburg. Hamburg? The one that was already a SH Size, Ideal Org? That one? Before even half the orgs have “IDeal” buildings he is recycling? How pathetic is this….

  168. happybaby89,

    You are way behind the times, baby. Such networks as LRH Comm, FBO, D/FBO and the Flag Rep Networks have long been replaced by DM Comm Office, DMBanking Officer, D/DM Banking Officer and DM Rep. But you may be right, and after David Miscavige has read all the criticism about TP, he may have ordered a few tons of it to be displayed at the reception in all the Empty Orgs, so that the Media can say “we inspected the orgs and there is plenty of toilet paper there”. And Katy True can say that “the Independents are lying and we have always taken care of the parishioner’s bodily functions by buying the best TP parishioners donations can buy”. Miscavige is not stupid, you know? He is very capable of handling all things that really matter, regardless of how difficult they may be how difficult they may be.

    Old Timer Alex

  169. correction:delete the last 4 words of my post.

  170. Another personal connection to LRH being destroyed. DM remains to be making billions in the name of LRH and at the same time destroying his name and anything to do with LRH , but think he become the creator for Tech/ NO He has had no part in the making / any part of it , even if he thinks so , Theirs no one ever going to beleive this , Its not to happen
    All he has ever done is degrade and destroy and enough is on that to be prooven.
    He demands and uses force for his compliances , at what ever costs to who he decides to attack if something does not go his way.or he is challenged.
    The abuse of services charges to public and those donaters to Ideal orgs etc in its promotion and hand ed out to public with its false Hope that isn’t actually going any where, at same time destroying anything and anyone who ever has had personal connection to LRH. ever.
    And he is a joker and degrader and a ultimate destroyer .words nothing can’t describe. but its Insanity, Gosh I would like to hear how LRH would have sounded if he had his chance .I have had the chance to witness
    attempts LRH himself dealt with on attempts to degrade him they didn’t last long.

  171. I will second that about Dear Old Jean her beingin the first lot of Sea Org , I knew Jean well and worked with her, and and saw her under that position at the time, also knew the children aswell Don her husband .If she hasent or wasen’t told of her daugther’s death at time of death, Its an utter desgrace and degrading Its just uncomprenable, You tend to be weiry to acknowledge one was once part of it ,and look what it is today .

  172. Dolores Stokes I knew one under that name ,sorry if I am butting in,
    Think Iis not same one. and she was at St Hill? together with a John Dalhoff !!

  173. Congratulations on your independence and thank you for sharing a thoughtful and inspirational announcement. Best wishes and may your transition be a smooth and happy one!

  174. Notorious, There were few senior executives (from Exec Strata or CMO Int level — Ray is part of CMO Int) actually on post since the year 2000. By 2003, that number had dwindled to zero — no body on post. All the top executives — the ones you used to see speak at DM’s illegal and off policy “International events” for propaganda were all declared in 2000 but left “on post” sort of. By 2003, the “sort of on post” was gone and they were simply off post in the hole supposed to be working out how to get undeclared and doing interminable busy work for DM that never ends.

    Primarily the only thing all these int execs did anyway for since the late ’90s was working on the next event. Meaning, write the speeches, give their two cents on video production which was normally worth less than 2 cents, and get in any photos from around the world that could be used to demonstrate somebody somewhere was doing something.

    As the desperation increased to stratospheric levels, LRH’s warning “never use lies in PR” was flipped around to “only use lies in PR because we got nothing.” DM declared statistics were obsolete because now our progress is measured in “broader terms.” Etc. Etc.

    Don’t assume people are on post. They are not. It’s like the old post of “Reports Officer RTC.” You know who that is? David Miscavige, HFA (held from above). Reports are scanned and they go into a computer that DM reads. So he knows who to shoot. I’m not kidding. DM wouldn’t trust Ray Mithoff to swat a fly much less touch tech lines — “He’s an SP!” is DM’s mantra, and he preaches the same thing about Marc Yager, GL, Janet Light, Wendel Reynolds, Russ Bellin and all the rest. Even Ronnie Miscavige (DM’s brother, Marketing Exec Int for 10 years) blew in 2000.

    DM “doesn’t need” the Int base and has said so numerous times. He doesn’t need HCO and Qual — replaced them with RTC Reps. He doesn’t need LRH — he’s replaced him with David Miscavige. He doesn’t need St Hill Sized orgs — he’s got Miscavige Ideal Orgs. He doesn’t need org staff — he replaced them with audio visual films and displays. He doesn’t need the Grade Chart and Training levels — he replaced them with “statuses” in the IAS. He doesn’t need freed beings — he’s replaced them with freed dollars. And most of all, he doesn’t need the human race — he’s got Tom Cruise.

  175. Mike, You forgot to mention the Int execs whom he declared in 2000. Marc Yager whom he earlier declared circa 1995 for two years (him and Bitty Miscavige were off post doing their own “RPF” program in a trailer by the swamp, guarded 24/7 by security guards). You forgot to mention Bill Dendiu who left in 2007 and really, hundreds of others — EACH of whom was “the reason for crashing Scientology” — no exaggeration. Plus you forgot the German and Australian governments. Virtually the only thing DM has ever done is find conspirators on a personal rampage to destroy Scientology (see Karen #1’s posts above).

  176. MR: Re: Hamburg, if I remember correctly, this was supposed to be a retrofit to include his handy-dandy humanity-less automatic-display Div 6 assembly-line, which did not exist when Hamburg was first proclaimed as an Ideal Org. While I am on the subject, I thought there was no much more he could do to shock me, but that faking of the opening of the Jaffa org for the IAS event actually did shock me. What did the Israeli Scientologists think of that, I wonder? I think if that one got out broadly to the existing loyal (coerced loyalty or otherwise) public, it would actually make some waves.

  177. Miscavige has finally done it: shit his own innards out.

  178. David, You are really setting a good example and demonstrating integrity. To walk away knowing virtually every friend and many family members would disconnect from you — that takes guts. But it is the only workable solution. Out here in the real world, you have everything those inside lack: freedom, integrity, honor, happiness, understanding, observation, the ability to move up the Bridge, financial independence, health and one more thing.

    Toilet paper.

    Congratulations, David!

  179. I think it was roughly in the early- or mid-80s that the concept of the “target psych” was dismantled and redefined in the CoS. Where earlier the idea was that “physical psychiatric abuses” were the target, the new target became “every psych in the world” (to include EVERY psychologist, psychiatrist, sociologist, anthropoligist and basically ANYONE working in the field of the social sciences). And these became the mortal enemy, to be destroyed. If you had any sympathy, agreement or ARC for any part of them, then you too were the enemy. It became pretty radical and extreme.

  180. Excellent post, Dave! I can tell you that the last few times I have been in ASHO, there was toilet paper! But that’s been a while, so I don’t know about now. :- )

    I did hear that they were remodeling ASHO again. Odd when they just remodeled it a few years ago and it looked more than fine to me. Yet they couldn’t afford to pay the very necessary medical expenses of their chief reg. Something wrong with that picture.

    Anyway, thanks for your post. And I love your secret plan.

  181. Tony DePhillips

    A dud means something that fails, or a flop, in the english language.
    My wife is French Canadian so I think you may have done this inadvertently because you are French Canadian.
    Maybe you meant to say Cooldude?

  182. Tony DePhillips

    Plus 1!!!

  183. Tony DePhillips

    Cro-magnum man accent. You may be dubbing in the German part for some reason…. 🙂

  184. Absolutely chilling. Brilliant contribution Karen, many thanks.

  185. This question from theakman reminds me … we need a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for this blog!

    Anyone want to take a stab at writing the questions? And then from there, we can work on coming up with the answers based on the articles and comments here and elsewhere (e.g., etc.)

  186. The last names are actually different. Betty’s last name was “Filisky.”

  187. Mike,

    Sorry I couldn’t make to the local grand opening of POB’s latest scam. I had a few other things to do like take out the garbage and buy toilet paper.

    Here’s the only local news coverage I could find:

  188. Of course since the secret plan has been publicly revealed here, OSA will now run around to all the OTs in the field to warn them of David’s plan for them, and according to the footnuke theory of present-time Church ops, will spark interest in him and his plan by doing so.

  189. Alex. I have red many of your posts and I love your big heart. I am a fairly recent ex-SO and I can tel you that there is a lot of emphasis on these networks but not for the right reasons. These networks are supposed to help the Orgs but virtually the only thing they do is enforce the s..t comming down from from the top. The local ED cannot take a breath without one of these monkeys looking over him/her. I saw it done for years and it was getting more and more psychotic. It is why the Orgs are what they are now.

  190. sam2 thank you.

  191. You sing it?
    Sounds good.

  192. Jean-François Genest

    Dear David,
    Welcome to the Independents! Wow, extensive history & experience. You are a great writer. Thank you for your detailed account. I applaud your dedication to LRH Standard Tech, your integrity and your resilience! Thank you for repeatedly saying “NO!”

    I was in Toronto, in CMO Canada, from 1990 to 1991. I agree with your statement of the org having “stupid ED’s and psychotic CO’s” over the years. Plus, the absence of heat & air conditioning, and toilet paper ARE TRUE and no jokes. Indeed, it was common then as well to study in coats and mittens, and to keep a stash of napkins in our pockets (obtained from near-by restaurants).

    I once committed the “overt” of sneaking and turning on the heat at the request of org publics, even though the org & CLO didn’t have money to pay the heat bill. I got disciplined for that. *So much money was diverted for the on-going court case*. The Sea Org house on Orley Street where CLO staff slept didn’t have hot water due to non-payment of bills. Several SO Members would sneak into the shower in the org’s purif area very early in the morning or late in the evening, once or twice a week to bathe, even though it was “out PR”.

    • It was very funny to see the CLO finance clerk (Martine) scramble at lightening speed to turn the heat ON the day David Miscavidge and Marty as IG Ethics came to visit Toronto. RTC staff had such magic powers, which we all wished we could obtain if we ever made it up The Bridge to OT.

    Yes, there are several Independents in the region. Where I live we have 3 Federal penitentiaries right in town. If OSA agents are interested in visiting me, there is plenty of room to lodge them here. LRH books are borrowed on a regular basis from the public library here. The interest IS there. Good luck and I sure hope to meet you. JFG

  193. Jean-François Genest


  194. PT stats from a class 5 org:
    I have only been in a few years…had some wins…then came to PT for real and saw the truth.
    Here are the present time stats in the small Org I went to:
    Dead: 6 (2 were old) AFFLUENCE
    SP Declares: 7 (nice people just got fed up with the DON’T LOOK, DON”T ASK, DON”T TELL and NO- I will not be a SLAVE for FREE while you continue to CLEAR THE PLANET from all buildings of Churches of Scamonology. POWER
    Clears : NONE POWER
    OT VIII’s – 4 DANGER..cuz they know now the TRUTH and don’t come around. Is an OT VIII suppose to have any money at this stage or is it expected for them to be completely broke and in debt?? I believe that is the status quo of the OT VIII…knowing cause over their own failed purpose?

  195. that was a fun post to read, welcome out!

  196. Dolores I am sure is alive and kicking somewhere in California. Proud of her skills and all that she did to help as a Class VIII. She and her sons David and Wally are not related to “the Toronto David Stokes”. I think Wally might still be on “official” church lines, but Dolores and David have not been for some years. Also none of these are related to Dean Stokes, a one-time mission holder in Texas.

  197. I thought they might have a bidet

  198. Hello One of Those Who See! Nice name!

  199. Wow! DM = a true ONLY ONE, or “we are all one”-implant in action!

  200. The dwarf couldn’t find his ass if he used a mirror on a stick.

  201. Ahhhh! Now it ALL makes sense! 🙂

  202. Dave,
    Bravo on your posting. As you know Kris and I went through the same crap. Our three sons whom we never believed could did! We have been a tightly knit family and for them to disconnect has been an eye opener to see how brainwashed they could be. It reminds me of the good old days in Munich! Woopse giving away past track! Little NAZI youth turning their parents in to be gassed!

  203. Great song, Chris. Love those lyrics.

  204. Awesome write up Dave and welcome to the Indie world!.
    Love your plan to create mass exits out of the Co$ in the Toronto area.

    Maybe coming out together “in blocks” might be the answer after reviewing all of the individual cross connections. Losing a dentist or some such due to illegal application of disconnection is easier to digest than the most immediate family members.

  205. OneFlyingOverTheCuckoosNest

    Goes to show you clearing the planet ain’t in the cards. If we can’t even clear our own family’s, how how on earth do we clear the planet. It’s total control under DM.

  206. OneFlyingOverTheCuckoosNest

    A clear thinks rationally, under his own control, for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. Right? A clear is basically good. Right? But, people are basically good, right?

  207. Good to meet you David. Really enjoyed your write up, good job.

    Regarding the recent org opinion. This location is an hour from Indiana, Lexington and Louisville. It is a suburb of Cincinnati and is now located within close proximity to an international airport. They know exactly what they are doing with this location.

  208. It was fraudulent and full of lies. I saw that video last year and it was quite impressive. “wow, they are really doing well!”. Another con from the con man.

  209. Nice uptone ad for the church, showed only one reaction of “not quite sure of them”. Glad they showed Greta Van’s pic.

  210. FP (Financial Planning) $3021.50 : Staff Pay $50.00, Letters out $50.00, Date line $ 0.00, Phone bills $0.00, Electric bills $0.00, toilet paper $1.50, Fund Raising Buffet $20.00
    Events (Sheraton Grand Ballroom) $2900.00

    Yep…Same picture in Montreal !
    Congratulation on your coming out Mr. Stokes 🙂

  211. Hi, David. Thanks for sharing your story.

    You are luck that there are two Freezone auditors who are based in the Toronto area, Chris Black, Cl Viii, and Pierre Ethier, currently auditing in Ireland, who is a Class Xii.

    I don’t have their emails off hand, but you could check with to see if either listed there.

  212. Ciao David,
    Interesting stuff! I like´d the one with the toiletpaper, had a similar experience, was upsetting.

  213. Different Ann Archer

  214. Re: “Alain Kartunsuski ”

    Dear Karen,
    Your spelling of ALAIN B KARTUZINSKI’s name is flowed . The fact is that he was performed my wedding ceremony and signed my marriage licence in the county records. Minty Alexander was my maid of honour.
    I hope this helps.

  215. Question I understand Alain has died When ? Mintyand Ricky Alexandra
    remain at the FSO yes?

  216. Perhaps if you spell Alain’s name correctly you could find more information about him. Last time I saw Alain, FSO flied him over to convince my husband to return from medical leave. Alain gave a session to my husband at the local org and I did hang out in the corridor. My argument was that when my husband was very sick, running fever from a deadly infection and was going to die, then the MLO at FSO refused to pick up the medical expenses, even if my husband has been a full time FSO staff for 20 years. Sure enough FSO would spend the money for long distance flights to get their slave labourer back with no hesitation.
    Needless to mention that when my husband was run over and heavily injured by a drunken taxi driver, his body was torn apart in pieces in this accident and his leg was reconstructed via surgery, then the FSO shamelessly absorbed the insurance settlement that was set aside for my husband’s medical needs. It was absorbed for books, extra services, e-meters, etc. …even including large amount of sums in their accounts for future services.

  217. I dont feel the question was answered If Alain is alive , because some one had posted a noticed ” ( he had died) so is this wrong ? and about Ricky and Minty Alexandra are they still at The Fort Harrison?

  218. Re: “because some one” – Who ?

  219. Perhaps Mrs . I KNOW IT ALL should of given your reply about your friend who’s name you can’t spell but here you go. I googled it for you.

    Right from Tampa Bay Times : “Alain B. Kartuzinski
    KARTUZINSKI, Alain B. 58, of Clearwater, passed away Friday, Nov. 6, 2009 at H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa. Eternal Rest Funeral Home 727-733-2300”

  220. Thank you for yr data you located. I don’t think it was neccessary to make slide comments just by one asking a simple question. It does seem childish.Errors accur in this world Its not a perfect one .

  221. That has been answered

  222. Perhaps you misunderstood my intentions. What my side comments were implying is that Mrs. ” I KNOW IT ALL” should be looking into her own flows first before she is looking into the flows of others and present as disrespectful of the efforts of others. My 2 cents of a good will.

  223. “John Ausley and Mike Maurer (they only studied the courses, (Ausley did not even finish the courses) and never passed/graduated any of the interneships and never had their certs signed by LRH which was done with all Apollo trained Class XIIs)”

    Dear Karen #1,

    It would be a real pleasure for me to see your Class XII Certificate signed by LRH. I would put a copy in my treasured collection of pictures.

    Can you show some DOX.

    Thank you so kindly

  224. Pingback: The Reppens Rip on March 13th | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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  226. Hi, David! Wow. Wow. Thank you for looking. Thank you for speaking. Thank you for thinking!
    I joined staff at Narconon on 15 March1976 and left on 29 August 1989. I remember the precise moment when my brain turned back on and I began thinking for myself again. I’ll never forget it.
    I don’t have much to contribute to this discussion, because when I resigned from staff in 1989, I didn’t just leave staff and the org; I left Scientology. My letter, left on the HCO Area Secretary’s desk, read: “This is my resignation from the Church of Scientology. Not home. Gone bowling.”
    Val Densmore (a dear friend and my auditor) phoned once. No one else contacted me – until my SP declare arrived in the mail. At first, I was outraged: everything I was accused of was a lie. I fumed for 10 minutes. Then I started to laugh. Just think of it: I, a mere Clear, was so powerful that even OTs couldn’t risk talking to me! How awesome is that?!
    I’ve never looked back, and I’ve never regretted it.
    Wishing you all success in your pursuits!
    And, David, if you’re still in touch with Philippa, tell her I still think of her, still love her, and wish her well!

  227. Pingback: Proč se církev bojí internetu | independent beings

  228. David Palter

    I would like to congratulate you, not only on your independence from the cult, but also on your very eloquent explanation of why you chose to disassociate yourself from it. I had no idea you could write so well. Of course, it has been (about) 40 years since I last saw you.

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