Idle Orgs — The Proof

By Mike Rinder

Remember the FIRST “Ideal Org.”  It was NOT Buffalo. Buffalo was bought with money obtained from a suit the church filed against an eminent domain action to demolish the old org building to make way for a freeway off ramp. But Buffalo did set the wheels in motion that unleashed Miscavige’s Masonry Frankenstein,  now terrorizing cities everywhere.

In fact, the first “Ideal Org” was Tampa.

I commented recently that Flag was made “responsible” for Tampa Org by Miscavige.  After the Buffalo building fiasco, he heard that Tampa was located in a strip mall, and that they were having trouble paying their rent and were being threatened with eviction.  To make a long story short, he then wound up Jenny Linson and Angie Blankenship and sent them off like rabid pit bulls to start gnawing on the legs of Flag executives and public to make them responsible for Tampa org.

Many “OTs” were persuaded to join staff, including the ED’s of both Tampa Day and Fdn and most of the tech staff and regges.  A lot of money was sucked out of Flag’s public to pay for buildings for Tampa:   the org and its “Community Center” as well as “Test Centers” in Ybor City, St Petersburg and Plant City.  THIS was the widely promoted “model Ideal Org” and was the pattern everywhere else was to follow.  The ribbon was cut with great fanfare in 2003 and in doing so Miscavige threw the switch on his first bricks and mortar Frankenstein monster (Joburg and Buffalo would soon rise from the dead to follow).

The good Dr. Frankenstein heralded this as the future of Scientology and how the planet would be cleared.

With the artificial influx of staff, money and public from the FSO, Tampa SHOULD have become the biggest org on earth. Let’s not forget, the church has told the media there are 12,000 Scientologists in the Tampa Bay area (Karin Pinnochio Pouw recently told The Independent in the UK that one in five people in Clearwater is a Scientologist… that’s about 21,000 JUST in Clearwater which is about 2 1/2% of the Tampa Bay total).  The FSO is NOT supposed to be the service org for Tampa Bay public. Even if 12,000 were only FSMing one person every 6 months, it would be 500 public onto service every week without Tampa doing ANYTHING to get new public through any other means.

Tampa Day was declared “SH Size” and told that the FSO was their “Universe Corps” – a cheap gesture by Dr. Frankenstein that had little significance as most of the staff were already Flag OTs and those that weren’t didn’t make it up the Bridge to Clear in Tampa Org anyway.

But, then last year, with much fanfare, the good doctor moved the Tampa “Ideal Org” from their model Ideal Org premises to “More Model More Ideal Org” premises “to facilitate their massive expansion.”  Everyone knew that was a lie. Tampa Org, along with his other palaces of excess, is like an autumn leaf: aesthetically pleasing to the eye but unquestionably dying if not dead.

So, what follows is hardly a big surprise.  But it is another of the stunning revelations that keep leaking out of the RCS that document what is REALLY going on, rather than the shermanspeak PR puffery that spews forth from the Emperor with no clothes.

One would be forgiven for thinking that 9 years after they were blazed across the headlines of the Scientology world as “the first model ideal org,” and then last year were moved into an 85,000 square foot building in order to “facilitate their expansion”, that Tampa would be a big, booming org, easily surpassing the size of Old St Hill.  After all, it’s run by OT’s.  It’s right here in the second largest concentration of Scientologists on earth.  It’s supported by Flag. CMO CW are their hands-on “management.”  THE model Ideal Org not making it in Tampa would be like a Mormon Temple failing in Salt Lake City.

Here is the message just sent out by the ED Tampa Fdn:

 On Monday, April 09, 2012 11:36 11:36 “Lynn Irons” wrote:

Dear Kim,

Even with your busy schedule, I could really use your help on something:

I am looking for several exec-type personnel as I have some holes in my EC/AC and need to get some competent people on and helping put this Ideal Model Org there.

It is quite an adventure (as you well know) and with a few critical postings, I feel we can reach St Hill Size very soon. We have our ‘Non-E’ campaign launching in a week or so which is a carefully laid out media blitz using our $250K fund. A new Dianetics Campaign might also launch by May 9th, as well. I have most everything in place and this could drive us over the top.

I would really appreciate it if you could take a little time and scour you contacts and give me some names and contact info of people that you would like to be on your team if you were in my place.

I really want to give COB a jewel of an Org in exchange for all that he has done for us.

ML, Lynn

Did you actually gag over his last line? I did.  Anyone who thinks the RCS is not a cult of personality, is in a KoolAid induced daze. And the old accusation that this is L.Ron Hubbard’s cult has long since been put to rest by Dear Leader, Dr. Miscavige. We’re not “Clearing the Planet”, we’re not even “doing it for Ron” any more.  In today’s corporate Scientology world, we are “doing it for Dave.”

To those who know him, Lynn Irons has a reputation as a sleazeball.  But this is brown-nosing that would qualify him for the butt-kisser Olympics.

And for any who still object to me or others saying the church is dead – here is Exhibit 1001.

277 responses to “Idle Orgs — The Proof

  1. martyrathbun09

    Perhaps to state the obvious, if an org were anything approaching St Hill size, it wouldn’t have any “holes” in the EC/AC – Exec Council/Ad Council. If it did, it would have ample competent staff to draw from to fill them.

  2. Thanks Marty. Sorry, I didnt make that clear….

    I also didnt mention that they wouldnt have empty course rooms, HGC, reception, Div 6 and parking lot, nor would they have CMO staff sitting around in the courtyard holding their “battleplan” meetings….

  3. I saw a video by Tory on her Youtube channel, part of her series on cults, where she showed pictures of a few orgs, first as the church showed them and then as they actually are. The difference was startling. The church shows flash fancy well lit buildings when the reality is dull, run down buildings. Some side by side pics would be nice.

    Also what is a “None E” campaign?

  4. “Non-E” even

  5. I too gagged. Then I laughed. “I really want to give COB …” What a looser!!

  6. Dean: Glad you noted that, I also forgot to mention it as another glaring outpoint (I just got stuck on the “Do it for Dave”).

    A “Non-E campaign” is a campaign designed to get them known and recognized in the community, as they are in a condition of “Non-Existence” (ie unknown). A bit contrary to the assertion that they are undergoing massive, straight up and vertical expansion and one in five people in Clearwater are Scientologists….

  7. Ah, LOL.

  8. Sounds like the quote, ‘do it for the Gipper…’

  9. cmds.kd .dv.kvs.

    Great post. A couple of posts ago, there was some interesting discussion about setting up a series of photos of the properties, as the neutral bystander would objectively perceive them. That sure would augment the points being so well made here in text. The juxtaposition of two facts: the need for a Non-E campaign and the assertion of 1 in 5 Clearwater residents is jarring, I would imagine, to anyone! I’d love some info on who Tory is and how to access his/her youtube videos.

    Price G

  10. Mike you sooooo right about Tampa Day. I was doing my Objectives, (as I was told I couldn’t get any auditing until I completed Objectives…even though I got a correction from another Class V Org for being 80 hours over-run on my original Objectives!), at the Org on Havana just before they moved to Ybor City. There were days when I would, literally, be the only public in the course room AND the Practical room. It was terrible being in that space.

  11. The man just can’t run the business model…

  12. I cannot stop laughing. What a complete joke and I did gag… the kool aid drinkers ,,, open your eyes, it is right under your stinkin’ nose and in plain sight, you are being brain washed. St Hill size is not going to happen at Tampa org or any other org. Dave is working very hard to make sure it doesn’t happen.

  13. In the mid-1980s, I served under Lynn as Promo Assembly Line Officer for his San Francisco Mission on Sutter Street. Lynn was Mission Holder. Robert Reifer was Executive Director. I was under a two-and-a-half-year part-time staff covenant. Lynn’s idea was to build his Mission into a San Francisco Celebrity Centre using WISE feeder-groups like Sterling Management to promote LRH Admin Tech to medical professionals (dentists and chiropractors), to then have them receive their Bridge services in San Francisco. It was a wild time. Seeing doctors in the Midwest being flown out to SF to receive Life Repair! And the bookstore sales and regging was unbelievable as well. ‘Postulate-loans’ from Hong Kong. Out-2D activities. Some day I’ll write-up a debrief. After Lynn got his Mission to Birthday Game status, he went on to work in Russia for U-Man, and later got involved as an exec with the infamous ‘blue-balls’ laundry disk MLM as Erwin Annau’s TradeNet Marketing scam hit Scn staff and public in the early-’90s. Oh, yeah. Lynn is BIG fun. LOL!

  14. retiredfromthechurch

    I would also point out that the CMO is dead. It’s been replaced by the SS. But you’re right, the

    uilding is emptier and emptier.
    Where is the corresponding letter from the ED Day, Wayne Fuller? I would expect that he is really spinning his heels in the Day Org! Maybe they are making just enough from the monthly rents from the Spaghetti Factory and Creative Loafing.

  15. Mike,

    I may have this wrong and it’s been awhile, but I thought that in order to have even Org status, all positions within the EC and AC would already be there and represented.

    If so, this ‘Ideal Org’ is really a Mission and moving towards Gung Ho status.

    And YES, I did gag.

  16. Dennis — you are correct, though there are probably only about 5 orgs in the world that have every EC and AC and Network position filled single-hatted…. But then Missions are supposed to have certain minimum requirements too, and virtually every one of them is not even a gung-ho group. And the “groups” are anyone who bought a “group kit” whether they even opened it or not…

  17. MIke, what was the “Buffalo Building fiasco”?

  18. Ziba Feulner

    For starters: The following sentence is making me gag, “I really want to give COB a jewel of an Org in exchange for all that he has done for us.” Really??? What has Miscavige done for you??? And what about LRH??? Any mention of him???

  19. Random Stranger


    1) Ybor City is known for spiritual enlightenment, not partying.

    2) Just the other day someone found an actual available parking spot.

    3) Crime in Ybor City is so…well…it has been known to actually decrease a bit, here and there, for a few minutes at a time, occasionally.

    4) That entire square block looks so much better without any pesky pedestrians cluttering up the sidewalk.

    5) It makes for such a nice compound, complete with high walls, fences, surveillance cameras and security guards.

    6) Their tenant, Creative Loafing newspaper, will be able to more knowledgeably enhance their friendly journalistic coverage of the C of S.

    7) The other tenant, the Spaghetti Factory, loves the idea of being able to offer their dining guests a free personality analysis and a chance for personal spiritual salvation. What a meal!

    8) Lynn Irons single-handedly took over Russia years ago, so conquering Tampa should be a cinch.

    9) It’s a great spot to build upon the screaming success of the testing center that thrived on 7th Avenue for so long.

    10) Ybor City drunks are way easier to sign up for billion year contracts, high level executive positions and big packages of services.

  20. The Buffalo Org — forever a tiny, failing org, was being evicted from their premises through eminent domain. They didnt have the money to get another building. It almost resulted in the church being closed down. So, the solution became for Eric Lieberman, CSI’s lawyer in NY City, to file a lawsuit as a stalling action. Eventually the lawsuit was settled and the city paid the church to relocate. That is the “seed money” that was used to get a new building. But Miscavige wanted something “grand” so of course there was not enough money from the city, so the fundraising began and months and months of “planning” and “design”. One public in Buffalo (Joe Sgroi) became the sugar daddy and gave millions (Buffalo basically had NO field, so it was the “OT’s” that were expected to step up to the plate to “back-up COB.”)

    Buffalo was a bloodbath internally also. The CO CLO EUS and CO FOLO EUS were assigned to become janitors in Buffalo by POB as he accused them of not backing him up — they were not interested enough in Buffalo and were spending time trying to manage the other orgs in EUS. But when “COB is on something” EVERYONE else should be doing the same. They were not the only casualties.

    So, Buffalo moved into a building that was about 5 times larger than it needed. Manned with staff taken from other orgs and the Sea Org. Big, glitzy opening attended by the great man himself and promoted forever.

    And the “Buffalo pattern” (a complete failure) was then ordered by Miscavige to be “implemented everywhere” because he considered it such a roaring success (he is the greatest consumer of his own bs — big Grand Opening and a glitzy org staffed with ringers is his ideal scene).

  21. Tory Christman previously Bezazian is an ex church of scientology member and declared suppressive person (she laminated the golden rod and often shows it).

    Google Tory Christman for details, she has a Wikipedia entry as well as a page or so on Religious Freedom Watch.

    Her Youtube channel is torymagoo44.

  22. Thank you for exposing Miscavige’s backup plan for what happens when people aren’t impressed by a big Idle Org building plopped down in an inconvenient out-of-the-way corner of a city and thus fail to flock to the Church of Scientology as planned. If the big new Idle Org doesn’t attract enough people in a couple years, build an even bigger, newer one!

    This is an example of primitive thought at its finest. If sacrificing a dove to the gods doesn’t bring victory in war, then sacrifice a goat. If that doesn’t work, sacrifice a cow. And if that doesn’t work, sacrifice the chief’s daughter. In that world, victory is a function of how elaborate the sacrifice, rather than being a function of whether your military strategy could have been improved or your soldiers equipped with better armor… In other words, primitive thinking has no understanding of basic cause and effect.

    You slice up the number of claimed Scientologists in Clearwater and the Tampa Bay area. But as you or Marty have said before on this blog, the fact that they’re having trouble filling Eckerd Hall for events (2,000-and-something seats) says that the real number of active members is far below the 12,000 claimed for the whole area.

    To get an idea of just how Idle the new-and-improved Tampa Idle Org is, it would be interesting to drive through the parking lot a few times to count cars, particularly by taking a count at off-times (i.e., 9:30 on a Monday morning when the staff is at work but nobody is actually coming in for classes/auditing/service) and then at peak times when you’d expect the maximum number of people to be in getting audited, etc. That way, you could get an estimate of how many people are actually receiving services at the Org, and of how many staff they actually have.

    Publishing hard verifiable data about how many people are actually coming in to get services could cause a major flap back at Int Base. Imagine being able to say that over a six week survey, “every Monday between 9:30 and 10:00, we counted 14 +/- 2 cars in a parking lot with 185 spaces, and every Tuesday evening at 7:30, we counted 19 +/- 3 cars in the lot, implying that on its peak night of the week, Tampa Org had an average of 5 people in for services.” Hard data would confirm what the rumors have long maintained. It would be interesting to see then what they do to try to shore up the “Potemkin Village” facade that people are flocking to the Extra-Ideal Sooper Dooper Tampa Org for some of that “straight up and vertical” expansion. I would volunteer for the job except that I have never been to Tampa, and am a long ways away from the nearest Org, which is not yet ideal anyway.

    You also made the case that if 12,000 Scientologists each reached out and got two fresh bodies in the shop per year that it would yield 500 new public per week. Based on stats from San Francisco org published in SF Weekly, a sister publication of the Village Voice, if they get 5 new bodies in the shop a week, it’s a miracle. Of course, the 12,000 number is bogus, but even if it’s 1/5 of that, 2,400 bodies, why not at least a could dozen new recruits per week?

    I have gotten the distinct impression that “public” don’t really disseminate anymore. Everybody assumes somebody else is going to sign up “fresh meat.” In the olden days, people were excited about Scientology and signed up their family and tons of friends, and shared about all sorts of good things that Scientology did for them. But today, it seems like people are almost embarrassed to be known as Scientologists.

    It also seems like the focus on money has replaced the focus on the number of new bodies brought in. I don’t see the IAS giving a “Gluteus Maximus” award for number of bodies brought into the shop by a given person, only for how much cash they fork over. Is the focus on money a tacit admission that the RCS has forgotten how to “sell the product?” Is the willingness of members to part with large sums of cash a way for them to support Scientology without having to risk embarrassment by going out and disseminating to their friends? Is it even possible for the Church of Scientology to recruit new members any more?

  23. Think skidmark has heard Lisa Marie’s new song yet? Talk about a stake thru the, well, skidmark

  24. eminent domain meaning a government’s ability to take over private land/property

  25. What he says: “It is quite an adventure (as you well know)…”
    What he really means: “This is a freaking roller coaster ride and I am stressed out to the max!!”
    Reading between the lines on that letter…it’s painful, yet he masks it well …hmmm…1.1…the tone level of the Church, as lead by David Miscavige.

  26. I assume then that the Buffalo org is now a “tiny failing org” still, just in a big fancy building.

    If Miscavige were the CEO of a large public company, nobody would be worried about whether he is an SP, etc. The board would have removed him long ago just based on the crashed stats and the waste of funds. Ah, but Miscavige IS the board. That explains it, I guess.

  27. Random Stranger


    Dear COB Sir,

    I am working very hard to meet your exhilarating target of Clearing Tampa by the end of the month. As you know, I enjoy a good challenge.

    The known obstacles I am confronting are very unique and I’ve only encountered a small amount of counter-intention, which by the way, is getting less and less. I was only thrown out of the Spaghetti Factory twice this week and the manager is not quite so angry at me.

    We actually got a person in yesterday and we were all able to get her to actually watch all the videos! We even sold her a book, which I loaned her the money for, but she’s promised to return next week to not only repay me, but to sign up for a course!

    Another thing I wanted to say is…ah…fdtyghjfei$%3zzzzzzzzzzzzz …sorry, I fell asleep for a second there, ha hah, sorry…I’ve been working for eleven days straight with no sleep and I don’t believe I’ve eaten in three days as that would be out-ethics.

    Where was I? Oh yeah, I’ve started to hit people as you suggested and I just want to tell you…wow! The stats shot out the roof, so straight up and vertical that I actually pinched a nerve in my neck looking at how high the graph line went. I’ve now implemented that as S.O.P. #1 mandatory for all staff.

    The group confessional procedure you hatted me on is starting to get some TA. We finally got the fistfights going and the suppress is coming off, just like you said it would. So, thank you!

    Thank you for all that you do for us, sir, COB Sir, your majesty. I’m going to go now as I heard there was a person walking a few blocks down the street and I want to chase him down and give him a pamphlet.

    Thank you Sir, I remain truly yours and much love,

    Lynn Irons
    T/A ED, Tampa Compound

    PS: I’ve started moving the chess pieces on that phenomenal idea you came up with for the free-drink Happy Hour to attract the local populace in on Fridays. I’ve got to start a fundraiser for the liquor license but I know our Flag community team will support Command Intention 100%.

  28. You forgot to mention Lynn Irons’ stint as part of IMV…Irons, Marcus, Valko, where Lynn and Revane Marcus pretty much ripped off the chiros and delivered very expensive overt products and then both headed for the hills with money from all those chiros and dentists, leaving delivery to Ruth Valko who soon up and died. Luis Colon was part of that fiasco too, as the reg. It was your typical hit and run ripoff for these jokers.

  29. The Copper Grounding Rod Video with Mike Rinders story
    completely got me. I was convinced I had seen everything, Been There Done that , NO MORE SURPRISES, EVER. Then Copper ground Rods by David Miscavige. (Toto, we’re Not in Kansas anymore)
    Now then, to fill Tampa Org is easy. move Academy couse room some place other than the Academy. Any place,even the roof does not matter, that is Step one. Open Academy to Alchololics Anon for 12 step programs ( court ordered) Say Monday,Wensday and Friday. Tuesday and Thursday open for Gamblers Anon ( court ordered) Thats step two, You are done!

    The people will be over flowing the Academy by the hundreds . Puirchasing DMSMH by the truck load and belive it or not,getting onto Scientology lines.
    Court Ordetred Alcoholics and gamblers include Lawyers, Chiropracters, Dentists, Business Moguls, actors.

  30. Perfect duplication of the existing scene…

  31. Theo Sismanides

    Mike, thanks for the Data Evaluation you did! No Idle Org can replace ONE MAN who CARES. And you Care and we care! We are not on Automatic. If DM would understand LRH he wouldn’t try to get anyone on Automatic. Thanks for NOT being on Automatic and being on the side of Theta the Thinker and the Solver.

  32. A Non-E campaign. What a joke. If they’d stop moving the org every time Miscagive has a new bright idea, they just might have some recognition. Which reminds me, isn’t there a Policy where LRH says if you move an org three times, you might as well have burned it down?

  33. Jesus, this Idle Org obsession of Dave seems quite similar to North Korea trying to con the whole world and it’s own starving citizen’s that yes we can & will successfully launch a rocket. Lynne Irons sounds like from his dispatch, a North Korean Kool-aid abuser.

  34. moneca ryane

    Priceless Mike! I laughetd and laughed. It’s sad that we are laughing about our church. Yet the insanity of it all leaves one little else and sure does bring great relief from the sad truth of it all. Love your writing style!

  35. Thanks, Jerry. Yup. Lynn’s BIG fun!

  36. Mike — you are absolutely right. I went to East Berlin shortly after the wall fell. The sections of the city close to the wall (i.e. those you could see from the West) were modern buildings, clean streets, lit at nite (and generally devoid of people), but if you drove half a mile away, you came to the reality of East Germany — apartment blocks that still had bullet holes in them from WW II, everything literally falling apart/decaying and the grayest, most depressing sights you could imagine. The shiny buildings and well swept empty sidewalks were a facade. Just like POB’s “Ideal Orgs” — “Look at how wonderful we are, expanding like never before and the proof is in all these NEW orgs” (of course not a single one of them is a NEW org, just a new building). King David, the king of MEST.

  37. Mike, Interesting on Berlin. Check out this photo in today’s LA Times article on North Korea, a prime example Miscavige propaganda.,0,4424261.story

  38. Lynn Irons: Battered Wife Syndrome

    In Frankenstein land, Ideal Org means: Ideal LOOKING. Not Ideal FUNCTIONING

  39. Moving Forward

    I visited Buffalo not too long after the grand opening of the new building and was just shocked at how utterly empty it was. Toured the whole org and there were zero public (I think it was a weekday afternoon) — literally no one in any of the course rooms or HGC — and about 4 staff in the building. The staff member who toured us was trying to be upbeat about how beautiful everything was, but also seemed rather embarrassed by the reality of the scene.

  40. Lynn Irons was another OT casualty. He originally was staff at the Davis Mission and an able capable guy. When he was running the SF Mission he got into trouble when the mission started having huge refunds due to lack of delivery. (Most of the public were located in other cities as they were Dr.’s and Chiro’s FSMed in from Sterling). Instead of looking at the rightnesses that were occuring in SF and handling the wrongness (lack of delivery) the place got desimated. Lynn was threatened with Declare and got sec checked galore and the result: another OT cool aid drinker. Lynn’s daughter is in charge of cleaning DM’s cars from my understanding. Lynn’s admin training is limited and he has no clue how to run an org so he will not succeed. He was only delivering one to two intensives a week (which most sole Indpendent auditor’s deliver?????)

  41. Moving Forward

    Interesting… what an apt comparison. There are other similarities between the former East Germany and the CoS.

    The Stasi controlled the populace through fear and control of outside information and had a large network of informers (I immediately thought of the OSA agents and facebook police). Nothing negative could be said about the state. Also, it took great personal risk to leave.

  42. Richard and I know a little bit about Lynn Irons from our days when Richard worked for the Clearwater Charter Committee. Back around 2002, Lynn had been going around promoting for donations to help pay for sending him back to Russia (he had been there previously and supposedly accoumplished something, but I don’t have the details). He did get some donations for this project, but he ended up using the money to put himself back on OT VII. Someone who had donated money for the Russia project registered a complaint with the Charter Committee about the misuse of these funds, but as far as we know this never got resolved.

  43. This non-e thing must be the reason Seattle Org is suddenly advertising on billboards, radio and even newspapers. Hilarious, though, that the radio station is one that people with independent, analytical, rebellious tendencies (such as anons) listen to, and the newspaper is the one that advertises for hook-ups of every gender. ROFL

  44. Kind of hard to do your objectives when you’re the only person in the courseroom. Will the ROFLs ever cease?

  45. If you’re going to go down the path of Miscavige’s major mistakes, his admin mistakes would have resulted in him being removed even before he ‘got started’ were LRH around to have overseen even the blunders Miscavige directed ASI (the over-flogging of the “prints” to rich public and spiking ASI’s stats with the huge “comission sales” that eventually old Ryland Hawkins ended up settling with the several Scientologists who’d been led to buy huge quantities of the “prints”, etc., DM would have been RPFed for that alone).

    To me, 339R Int is about the best starting place to administratively lay out Miscavige’s major decision making mistakes.

    LRH would simply also remove him for NOT ensuring CMO Int and WDC put an effective Exec Strata there. Period.

    And effective Exec Strata would and should wrestle with 339R Int execution, and that Exec Strata “failed”, that is where attention should have been placed.

    Miscavige’s mistake is using policies, particularly the policy of “not filling a post with incompetent execs” and instead using this policy to NOT fill and make effective WDC and Exec Stratas.

    I wish to heck we had a copy of the CBO or Flag Order called “Flag’s Relative Importances”.

    LRH ED 339R Int and “Flag Relative Importances” and a careful study of ALL of LRH’s final years top level administrative writings, and sorting them all out, based on earlier years policies, (going back to the fundamentals in “Essay On Management” and then selectively looking at all key policy viewpoints throughout OEC green volume policies from 1950 to when LRH died), and taking some of LRH’s final comments, like the huge huge comment in LRH’s non-existence formula answer despatch to ED Int (Lesevre), that despatch opens the door to the authority that a well trained Exec Strata “think tank” has, to guide the top level strategic decision making.

    It’s never been allowed to come to fruition, and MOST (95%) of the ex top leaders think even solving the admin setups situation is an impossibility.

    It almost takes outside wiser influence, in my hindsight opinion, to be extremely selective in LRH’s admin major principles, to resolve a few key things.

    In 10-20 years, maybe a convention of ex WDC and ex Exec Strata people, should be called, and have them intermingle and see what they think if even the final setups LRH laid out are doable and workable to resolve the movement’s top strategic planning level decisions.

    LRH left a very top down organizational setup, and it’s been simplified by Miscavige by essentially not filling the WDC and Exec Strata positions, and using the policy saying it’s better to leave top positions vacant than fill them with incompetents (leading to arguments that the smart decisions that Miscavige has rejected coming from WDC and Exec Strata we haven’t seen what those “bad” decisions might have been, since Miscavige didn’t allow them.)

    LRH has simply NOT even remotely been analyzed for his administrative setups.

    I’ve argued that Exec Strata has to get up to the LRH ED level of pilot, 1-2 year long pilot, administrative ventures level operation.

    That I think was allowed to happen somewhat, but the two top councils, the two top “committees” (WDC and Exec Strata), getting them functioning and coming up with better strategic decisions, Miscavige has avoided that messiness by simply unmocking those top two councils.

    This is just a longer historical problem of the top ranks administrative history of the movement.

    Again, I’d like to see ALL of Hubbard’s private issues (CBOs, FOs, COLRHEDs, all the private issue types, all his raw despatch traffic the final decade from the late 1970s until he died, to “church” leadership, to ASI, to RTC—I forgot about the IG Cramming Officer despatch and the IG MAA hat writeup answer LRH gave to Gary Conley which then Chris Guider I think was the main implementer of the IG MAA stuff), ALL of LRH’s final years traffic needs to get out so anyone really willing to get their wits around what all he said, and put it ALL in context, and think their way OUT of this Miscavige era mess, well it goes back to KSW #1 “having the ……”

    There are so many pitfalls and conundrums advanced critics can easily paint ALL of LRH’s admin solutions into a corner, making it all seem impossible to ever sort out, and I think it’s true, that if one centers on this or that policy, one absolutely can be forced into unsolvable predicaments.

    But, that advice to ED Int, from LRH, about what ED Int’s job was, regarding dealing with arbitraries, and tying that concept of dealing with Arbitraries BACK to the old Class 8 principles of dealing with arbitraries, the option to resolve arbitraries is the way OUT of the Miscavige era.

    That to me, having Class 8 staff at the top ranks of the admin positions, and people who actually can C/S and know the Class 8 arbitraries and flexibility options level understanding of applying any Hubbard ideas, is necessary.

    Plus put all the WDC and Exec Strata people though University for 4-6 years, studying world religion history, and get a world education, so they aren’t so cultish.

  46. We experienced that same tour in Las Vegas at their ideal org a few months after it opened. It was in a location far from anything, so there would have to be cars in the parking lot for those attending. There were about 15 cars as I recall, and yes, we were shown all the glam, but the rooms were empty. Duh!….

  47. If Karin “Pinnochio” Pouw said, “My nose is about to grow…”. What would happen?

  48. scilonschools

    Very interesting and relevant article!, thanks for the link.

    “The North Korean regime considers military success a question of survival — that it’s better to be famished than let the insidious Americans kill you,” said Andrei Lankov, a leading scholar of North Korean history”.

  49. Talking about “proof”, is RJ 38 really said by LRH?

  50. The daughter is DM’s personal steward, who is responsible for his personal (and Shelly’s) spaces, clothes etc. and part of his entourage and very much of a kool aid addict. Some years ago she was busted to the Freewinds engine room and bilges for fully washing his new white egyptian cotton uniform instead of spot cleaning it. She apparently managed to work back to his good graces. Where is Shelly, by the way – has she not managed to work her way off the decks in the last 5 years?

  51. typo: should read – “not fully washing”

  52. mmm, Saint Hill size hey?
    Isn’t there meant to be 200 students in the TTC (tech training corp)?

  53. Random Stranger

    Someone, perhaps some brave Iraqi church member, should throw a shoe at Miscavige’s head at the next event. (void where prohibited by law)

  54. Getting auditing out from under the suppression is a whole new ball game, it’s happening at lightening speed. I had a Floating TA yesterday 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 Go peeps – get in session and rev up your horsepower!

  55. These “ideal orgs” are such a deep, cultish mockery — havens of sheetrock instead of ARC — it is revolting. The church is a rotting corpse infected by a deadly microbe, and these sheetrock orgs are scabs covering up what’s festering inside.

    Technically Mike, the church is not dead, it’s below death. Taken as a whole, if you look at everything they are doing against the Tone Scale, the tone level of the Cult of Miscavige is -3.5, APPROVAL FROM BODIES. The ideal org program says, “come in, look at our corpse, isn’t it beautiful? Don’t you approve?” Lynn Irons wants COB to approve of him. COB wants to approve of his bodies. “Let’s all just bask in mutual approval. Can you feel it now? Ahhhh, man, this is really where it’s at. He approves of me. I approve of you. COB approves of us. We approve of COB. Two guys came into the org just last month and they said how beautiful the place was. Ahhhh, so great. So great to get their approval. That’s all we need.”

    No one is trying to get anyone up the Bridge. Just come in, take a tour and please give us some approval so we can send it uplines.

    If you think about it, how much of the comm inside the Church, certainly at the upper management levels is taken up with the phrase “COB approval”?

    They’re all degraded beings. And they aren’t just butt kissing, they are making out with DM’s butt. It’s pornographic.

  56. Mike,
    Please clarify what the Board is that dm is the Chairman of, and who are the Board Members????

  57. retiredfromthechurch

    Here’s an appropriate video – for all those in and out.

  58. LRH ED 339R Int, was written 13 mar 1982, revised 30 July 1982.

    It is designated “(Not BPI)” and that means it is NOT in the OEC Volumes, nor in the Tech volumes, it only is allowed in packs that are designated for staff of orgs, missions and of course higher admin units.

    Miscavige’s biggest blunders are discovered by reading LRH ED 339R Int, and comparing the scene today, to what LRH ordered in LRH ED 339R Int.

    If one allows that LRH ED 339R Int is itself a “failed” LRH ED, and one allows Scientology leadership the option to apply “Seniority Of Orders” policy, then one could even scour policy, like Miscavige has done, and come up with the prior major all pervasive “Ideal Orgs”, an earlier era strategy for building up the Class 5 orgs.

    One could even stretch one’s mind to allow that building up the Class 5 churches with better facilities, and trying to beef up their staffing, as actually in accord with “Flag Relative Importances”, (which per my memory the top of the list is Class 4/5 orgs health being number one Flag priority, with Flag meaning the “top management” at the time LRH wrote the “Flag Relative Importances” strategic all important guidelines).

    When I go into mental policy robot mode and use my memory to scour policy, I can even allow that this dropping off oc the LRH ED 339R Int priorities, is a calculated strategic decision, that is allowed.

    I’ve thought that making “standardized” similarly looking buildings, with their ground floor layouts similar, their whole floor by floor layouts similar, all pretty much in keeping with LRH’s extensive private orders and the OEC policies on spaces for orgs and churches, it all kinda is following LRH writings.

    So, if one is going to fully look at what LRH all allowed, the whole way LRH operated, I see, in a way, that even Miscavige is going through his own long term learning curve, as if HE were LRH and that LRH expected someone to even assume the LRH position. That’s a role LRH did NOT expect though.

    Not even discussed in any book, and only discussed on some blogs and by a small number of ex senior members who’ve read enough of LRH’s final admin writings (1978-1985 writings) have even brought up this MAJOR criticism of Miscavige taking on a role that LRH didn’t even specify.

    I mean, I look at it, like would have WDC/CMO Int and Exec Strata have done on their own, or were they even authorized to do as Miscavige has experimented and done, and the answer is YES, the way LRH operated would have allowed Exec Strata and WDC to have done what Miscavige has done.

    But would they, of course not. Exec Strata would not have come to the conclusion that LRH wished Exec Strata to cease to exist and cancelled themselves, nor would any generation of WDC and CMO Int have come to that conclusion either. LRH ED 330R Int in all its details is just too rich with positive suggestions that its illogical to retire those solutions which they are allowed to do, per policy the Seniority of Orders policy allows LRH ED ideas/solutions to be retired if those ideas/solutions prove not working.

    This is all boring, and average Scientologists don’t give a damn about all the admin details, and usually the people desirous of even getting into the movement’s major admin strategy details aren’t the type to want to rise up and hold the top WDC and Exec Strata positions, and really spend the time and sink their minds into ALL of the history of the admin setups, and sort all this out.

    How to fill the top ranks positions in “top management” has been a long term challenge, and LRH wrote so much detailed stuff about the top ranks, in his final years, and it takes a lot of reading, weeks just to read all the INCOMM, ASI, Int/S, RTC, CMO Int, Cine/Audio, Music, HU, Archives,, traffic by itself, and put it ALL in context of LRH’s full OEC layout and all the admin lecture series (FEBC and Esto), and all the limited edition Sea Org policies, and then ALL of LRH’s tens of thousands of private comments all through all the submissions he ever approved in the whole history of the admin setups of the movement, , it’s a huge daunting, and frankly off-putting career choice for any Scientologists to wish to want to become one of the top execs in the movement.

    Anyone want to chat on weekends about admin history, off the record, my phone number is 412-260-1170, I’d be glad to hear old WDC and Exec Strata and former “top management” people’s views today in hindsight about it all.

    Chuck Beatty

  59. Orbal 1I was there too-I’m sure we knew each other.
    Lyn was a sleazeball for many many reasons. His winning of the Birthday game was based on a number of false stats. The DofP alone heavily falsified.
    The regging was as bad as it gets and was responsible for a number of the stories recounted in the famous TIME mag article, The Church of Greed. One of them was the wife of a dentist, who was type 3 (she thought she was LRH re-incarnated) and they kept regging her husband!!!!
    Towards the end, the mission was facing on a constant basis of about $250.000 in refund requests. They never told the remote public that there were other Scn. centers right in their own backyard.
    The bookstore officer was Behrooz (sp?) who at one point made about $120,000 in one year by criminal means. He also propositioned a public to watch porn with him. I always wanted to take a shower when I went through his space. The DofP asked me to audit him and I told him I don’t audit SPs.
    He was finally caught forging a bank deposit so he could get a big commission. he was loved and protected by Lyn- just his kind of person.
    And guess what?? Lyn is DMs kind of person all the way!

  60. Mike – how can you be so ungrateful? We all know that COB works his fingers to the bone because of the incompetence of his staff. I know of no one (except COB) that has such an exceptional ability to rape and pillage, not only his staff, but the public as well and convince them that it is all for their own salvation.

  61. Looking to fill “holes” in E/c or A/c is just another outpoint on the ED Fdn. There is ample policy on posting an Org from the top down, not bottom up. Unless there are NO staff under the ED this person is overlooking vital Dept. 1 and Esto Policy which is a solution instead of the problem of asking others for recommendations.
    Just saying.

  62. Tom Gallagher

    The only ‘Proof’ POB needs comes in a bottle and indicates the alcohol content.

  63. As a friend recently told me who got it straight from a Kool Aid drinker, they are ignoring the current scene because “they are building for the future.” That is the actual computation keeping this 3D service facsimile in place. That is what they are using to hold back the confusion that would hit them square in the puss were they to look one millimeter beyond it.

  64. Was wondering where Lynn Irons disappeared …

    But we must not forget his stint with the FAMOUS and LOVELY Victoria Morton of Suddenly Slender fame. (dripping sarcasm here). Lynn was her D/ED and ALMOST hired me (as I knew him from all those earlier fun fun times).

    UNTIL Victoria came OUT of her fog and recognized me … I kept telling her … “DONT you recognize me … As THE person you “baby watched” in Tahoe for 3 months” (*baby watch = euphemism for 24 hour watching of someone who is seriously messed up and might harm themselves or others)

    Actually she didn’t watch me AT ALL but ran the out ethics teen age boys who did. (they were doing amends – watching me)

    Oh — they were wonderful. One would get so irritated with me he’d pick me up (he was 18 and 6’2)(I was around 45 and 5″2 – 119) and he’d body slam me into the dry dusty dirt of the high desert.

    So much fun. And very non-restimulative as you might imagine.

    Victoria would then report to the Class VIII CS how I was getting out of hand.

    She would make nurse Ratchet look mild.

    Anyway, Victoria got me out of her office fast fast fast – saying they weren’t hiring when in fact there were signs “hiring now” all over the office.

    I guess I was easier to confront when I couldn’t —

    Lynn ALWAYS finds himself with those who can figure out how to make a buck – usually by standing on others to get there.

    Victoria had no problem with that. Used my scene to route herself OUT of the SO, knowing she now had some money.

    Miscavige continues to surround himself with people who are scorned in society … the cowards, the bullies, the thieves and bank robbers. He’s got sufficient blackmail on all of them.

    He’s too dumb to realize that those people are the first to flee when he loses his footing — and several guns have been fired recently that WILL get the avalanche started.


  65. DM wishes he could fool that many people for that long. There must be 80,000,000 dopes in North Korea. He’s got maybe 20,000 left worldwide. He is strictly small potatoes compared to some.

  66. Lynn Irons would have died on the battlefield of Troy when he entered the
    fray of the fight against Diomedes and Diomedes would have killed him if
    not for the intervention of the Goddess–his mother, who whisked him away
    from the battlefield (where he was mortally wounded). He was healed by pure Olympian theta, not just by his Mother but by the other Olympians who
    took the Trojan side, including Apollo. And of course,today, almost every
    school child and classics students who study Greek mythology would not
    hear of the adventures in the book which bears his name. At the S.F. Mission his wife at that time an OT VII and Class VIII- Judy Irons was that
    very same past-life Olympian Goddess–Athena and after OTVIII and Her L’s she became a very powerful OT and could really pump-out the theta
    power when she wished to. Now she works exclusively for L.R.H. and knows the scene here on the Planet besides the doings of what goes on
    in the Church. ——-Thyrsus

  67. Richard Royce

    Dear Retired,
    Please fill in a bit on the Spaghetti Factory? Is that a profit making business supporting the church??? I never heard about that!

  68. Now THAT is a great comment. Hilarious. Would give anything to see it happen.

  69. Chuck, this is an impressive piece of scholarship into the details of LRH policies for running an organization. For those of us unfamiliar with the details of LRH philosophies and procedures, would the following be an accurate summary?

    1) LRH admin policies are difficult to sort out into a consistent road map, given that they were laid down by a single man in a hurry over the course of 30+ years.

    2) Regardless of inherent contradictions and ambiguous priorities in LRH policy as written, Miscavige has completely ignored it. In particular, he has used the rule of thumb of “it’s better to leave a post empty than hire incompetents” as a way to decimate WDC and Exec Strata, two groups that would have power to override his decisions or remove him entirely. So using that principle above all others is a cynical way to justify eliminating threats to his power. (This leads directly to the Hole: “See, these guys were all so utterly and completely incompetent that the only way I can save the organization is to put them in the Hole!”)

    3) Miscavige’s earlier screw-ups including ripping people off at ASI, would have gotten him put into the RPF or worse, but he somehow dodged this bullet.

    4) Things that would make the organization run better include:

    a) Clear prioritization of conflicting rules and policies, done by a body of appropriately qualified experts.

    b) Everybody running the organization should be either somebody who “makes the product” (i.e., is a qualified auditor) or “sells the product” (i.e., is a registrar or somebody who delivers services in the org). Miscavige is neither.

    c) Everybody should have experience in the “real world” before they go on staff, so they have some other experience to criticize the organization and thus make it stronger.

    So far so good… These are all suggestions that involve a lot of good common sense, and a lot of MBA-waving corporate strategy consultants (myself included) would agree with them.

    But in reading what you wrote, I’m struck by one thing: at the end of the lengthy, complex process you describe, if that process could ever actually begin given the political climate at Int Base, the end phenomenon is an organization that is fully restored to the way LRH intended it to be… 40-50 years ago.

    That is like taking a rusted out hulk of a 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 sedan and restoring it to showroom new. You’ve brought it back to what its builders intended, but a more modern car is 10x safer in a crash, 5x more reliable, and a new car has air conditioning, power windows, seat belts, high quality sound, GPS and gets way better gas mileage. The restored Ford is an art object that brings back memories. But it is not something you would want to drive every day to work.

    By today’s standards, it seems to me that the Hubbard-designed Org is woefully inefficient, in large part because it was invented in the days before computers, and in the days when communication between parts of the organization was tough. Hubbard deliberately styled the Sea Org on the Navy. Back in his day, Navy ships were out of touch with their bosses on the shore for weeks at a time except for the briefest of messages (“Under attack at position ______”). Today, sailors on Navy ships have cell phones, Internet connectivity and video conferencing. The data links to command and even to resupply are as fast as they are on land. There’s no longer any reason to build an organization around distance and isolation, assumptions that were valid back then.

    So does each org really need its own EC/AC at this point? Should they have one just because Hubbard wanted it that way in 1972? Local advertising control was probably a good idea when communications back and forth between HQ and the orgs were far more cumbersome and more expensive than they are today. You needed local expertise in advertising, especially when HQ advertising people were overwhelmed and unable to meet the demand of 100+ local orgs. But today, marketing teams are much more efficient, and most companies have moved marketing/advertising decisions and implementation back from the field to corporate HQ. You could do as much with 10 advertising people at HQ as you could with one advertising person at each of the 140 orgs worldwide.

    Efficiency matters today, even if you have abundant low-cost labor like CoS does with staff and sea org wages. Foxconn, the iPad makers, pay workers something like $10 to $14 per day, or $0.80 to $1.20 per hour. Yet they are as aggressive as anyone in the world about efficiency and cost-cutting.

    If the CoS were to become concerned about efficiency, they might be able to disseminate more effectively. Let’s assume here that we’re talking about an organization run by honest trustworthy people committed to making Scientology successful, rather than to their personal power. In military terms, efficiency is called the “force multiplier.” In WWII, destroying a German tank factory took weeks, with dozens of planes bombing every night, and it took hundreds of mechanics to keep all those planes in the air, and hundreds more people to build and service the thousands of bombs that were dropped willy-nilly all over the landscape. Today, to destroy a building takes one or two planes and a couple precision-guided bombs. It might even happen with a single cruise missile. It takes a couple of mechanics a few hours to overhaul the aircraft after such a mission. The net result: the US Air Force is infinitely more deadly with 1/20 the number of planes and 1/50 the personnel as it was in WWII.

    Bringing the organizational structures and procedures up to date, even if the finished organization looks way different than it does today, seems like a good idea.

    So while Scientology is suffering today because Miscavige has absolutely corrupted the implementation of its management structure, is the goal of simply rolling back his corruptions to the way LRH decreed it a half century ago the right goal to have at all?

  70. Richard Royce

    The Charter Committee was the WISE Charter Committee. I was Ethic Unit I/C for it and handled the out ethics that occurred in the business field of Scientology around Clearwater Fl.

  71. retiredfromthechurch

    Tom, I am ROFL at that last comment. With all the High Proof Malt that he consumes his liver must be at the bursting point. He must get massive Vit C injections from Megan Shields every week just to keep up!

  72. it hasn’t been our church anymore for a loooong time

  73. What do you mean by “gung-ho group”?

    To me it means their eager and enthusiastic though perhaps somewhat reckless or unthinking in their outlook.

    The meaning doesn’t relate to group size as I think it’s meant to given the context.

  74. And talking of things linguistic “their” in line 4 should read “they’re”.

  75. Seeking4know

    😀 agreed!

  76. Moving Forward

    Not entirely on-topic, so I apologize if I should include this here, but I just watched a great talk given by John Cleese on creativity and he ended with this bit on how creativity can be stifled in organizations. It struck me that this is very much how the CoS operates – particularly DM based on all I have read by those who’ve had the misfortune of working for him (apologies for any mistakes in my transcription – video link here if you’d rather watch it – the bit I transcribed starts at about 33 minutes, but the whole is worth watching, I think):

    Here’s how to stamp out creativity in the rest of the organization and get a bit of respect going:

    Allow subordinates no humor. It threatens your self-importance, especially your omniscience.

    Treat all humor as frivolous or subversive. Because subversive, is of course what humor will be in your set up as it’s the only way people can express their opposition since if they express it openly, you’re down on them like a ton of bricks.

    Let’s get this clear: blame humor for the resistance that your way of working creates. Then you don’t have to blame your way of working. This is important, and I mean that solemnly, your dignity is no laughing matter.

    Second: keeping ourselves feeling irreplaceable involves cutting everybody else down to size, so don’t miss an opportunity to undermine your employee’s confidence. A perfect opportunity comes when you’re reviewing work that they’ve done. Use your authority to zero in immediately on all the things you can find wrong. Never, never balance the negatives with positives. Only criticize, just as your schoolteachers did. Always remember, praise makes people uppity.

    Third: demand that people should always be actively doing things. If you catch anybody pondering, accuse them of laziness and/or indecision. This is to starve employees of thinking time because that leads to creativity and insurrection. So, demand urgency at all times. Use lots of fighting talk and war analogies and establish a permanent atmosphere of stress, of breathless anxiety and crisis. In a phrase, keep that mode closed (note: reference to modes of operating, i.e. ‘opened’ and ‘closed’ as discussed earlier in his talk).

    In this way, we no-nonsense types can be sure that the tiny, tiny, microscopic quantity of creativity in our organization will all be ours. But, let your vigilance slip for one moment and you could find yourself surrounded by happy, enthusiastic and creative people whom you might never completely to control again.

  77. I wonder where this $250K fund came from. Have other orgs also been given $250K to run Non-E campaigns?

  78. What is it about dentists and chiropractors?

    They seem to feature a lot as a target group; you don’t see the same stories in relation to bankers, lawyers, general practitioners, nurses etc.

  79. Random Stranger

    We’d at least get to compare his ducking skills to Bush’s, which actually were pretty good.

  80. Tampa was the org I quit at. I was there when they transitioned from the strip center to the “old cigar factory in Ybor.” While it was a nice transition it came with major harassment by everyone in Clearwater and Tampa. I was constantly being fount over by regges for IAS money, Idle Org donos, my Clear package, to Join staff, ad infinitum. At the end of the day the org while I was there from 2003-2006 was never even at half capacity and more than often empty. The OT committees would flow Clearwater public in there to stat push and make it look like it was the big thing to do. I myself drove from Clearwater every day during the week for course. They had Sunday BBQs which was free to bolster attendance on the weekends right after Sunday service.

    It didn’t matter how much I had given whether in cash or on credit, I was always being hounded for more and reminded that I would become more able and therefore it would be easier to pay it back.

    I bet if I walked in there today it is dead in there.

    Good luck Lynn, you DM loving butt kisser.

    Your org will never make ST. Hill because Tampa is broke and it is impossible to go Clear on your price structure unless you are married to Tom Cruise.

  81. Random Stranger

    I would love to have the opportunity to bullbait Miscavige for…like…a hundred hours. Maybe he’d accept the offer. If he enjoys it I could work Tom over the coals, too. No extra charge.

  82. Windhorse: Lynn Irons is now a partner in a Clearwater company called “Ulan Nutrition Systems” or UNS. It’s located on Cleveland St. NE right behind the Dodge Gas Store on Drew St. Dr. Freddie Ulan, trying to emulate LRH, took nutritional data already existing and compiled a muscle-testing system. Their training is expensive. One course called PGA (Personal Growth Enhancement) cost $3995. and consists of three Div 6 courses: 1. Comm Course, 2. Up’s And Down’s, and 3. Improve Conditions. Pretty hefty huh?!
    Also, their “crush regg’ing” has become well kown for making several women literally cry. The pressure for money was so much and so intense these students (mostly Chioro’s) came apart at the seams. Lynn Irons, from time to time, gives talks to the groups about his adventures in Russia.

  83. P.S. Wasn’t the main Scn Org Raided in Moscow a few weeks ago?

  84. Hi, Ingrid. It’s Charlie Sweeny. I used to work with Kingsley Wallis in Div 2. Lorelei Parman was his 2D. I worked at SF Msn from ’86 to ’89. Amy Tuttle (nee Sufrin) was a reg, as was Bill Bradham and his (now ex-wife) Carolyn. Yes. Behrooz Sarafraz was Comm Ev’d for off-policy booksales regging. (I don’t know about the porn thing, though.) Robert Reifer, the ED, dumped his wife Donna for some 18-year-old brunette hottie. Lynn (and his now-deceased wife Judy) were pulling-in $1000 a week (I saw Lynn’s check sitting in the beanstalk comm center), while Kingsley had to borrow money from me to pay his rent. Ohhhh, so much FUN! And I’ll never forget the time I met Claire Edwards from SMI doing her walk-through of the Mission. The place looked like a sauna or hot tub palace! (Remember all the wood-planking on the walls?!) LOL! Too much!

  85. I knew Lynn pretty well but I never took him to be a “sleaze ball”. I believe him to be a person of good will albeit at this time misguided. He is very dedicated to LRH and Scientology but like so many others seems unable or unwilling to LOOK. He is someone who could probably have made a lot of money doing a lot of other things but choose to stay on staff or doing other dissem activities like WISE or IHELP. Actually, I’d say he is (or was) a bit of a rebel. To be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if Lynn wakes up one day. If he does, he’d be a force to reckon with.

  86. I don’t want to come off as the designated “Lynn” defender but my understanding is that Lynn was brought in at the very end of the flap to try to right the ship. That’s what I recall.

  87. Ruth died long after IMV was dismantled. Valko & Associates was very successful and doing quite well at the time of her passing from what I know. She died in what should have been a fairly routine surgery. I spoke to her a few days before her death as she asked me to consider merging my company with hers if anything happened to her. I just don’t think it’s right to A=A Ruth’s passing with having previously been involved with Lynn in another company. This is the kind of labeling and out pointy conclusions that are rampant in the Church.

  88. John. The system that LRH left behind is not so bad as long as in the future we avoid having an idiot psychopath in-charge.
    Just like it takes years to obtain an MBA it takes years to really grasp the subject of running a Scientology organization.
    In my 15 years in the Sea Org I have met many individuals who on their own initiative came up with ideas to bring the organization up to date with the world in computerization, marketing, property management and public relations. They even submitted wonderful proposals, we call it Completed Staff Work, that ended up nowhere because in order to be implemented throughout the church it curently needs to be approved by Miscavige who by all indicators does not want Scientology to succeed.
    A Scientology organization naturaly is not as ridgid as it looks to be now. One just really has to understand how it works.

  89. I gotta admit I could never figure out how Lynn could be involved with Suddenly Slender. It seemed embarrassing. I guess I thought he must need to pay some bills and then he’d be back on some kind of dissem activity.

  90. In general they are the sole owner of the business which makes sign up much easier. For consultants who have a good KRC for how a dental or chiro should be ideally running the admin tech works like a charm. IMHO the WISE groups were the key to rising Church stats from the early 1980s until whenever they began their descent. Just look at the top IAS donors and you will find many, many docs who came up through a WISE group.

  91. Jan Racheff (now Sillber) and I were asked by Lynn to handle the husband of that Type III woman so that they would not refund or sue. We actually did “handle” him not to sue or refund until some idiot at the SF Mission actually wanted to charge him for the Type III handling!!! The cycle then blew up and Jan & I were left to sort it out in coordination with OSA. The SF Mission ended having to get a loan to pay the huge refund and legs threat they now had. Pretty much ended the SF Mission as it was back then. I don’t what Lynn’s part was but I can tell you that the regging at the SF Mission was insane and Lynn was certainly responsible as the Mission Holder as he had a psychos on the reg lines who could sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. Of course it’s no more insane then the current Church regging which is why DM probably adores Lynn. I would say Lynn is a little crazy in the finance area but not necessarily for personal gain.

  92. Random Stranger

    They were into blaming David Singer for their failure for a while, probably rightly so at that.

  93. Now that made me laugh out loud!

  94. Thank you for the comment. Your post brought up a number of ideas. First, yes, Miscavige’s incompetence is a key reason (if not the key reason for the current decline.

    Second, I’d argue that organizational rigidity is something that Hubbard strove for. That’s at the core of KSW, which was probably written when everybody went off and more or less did their own thing when it came to auditing and lots of other stuff… Hubbard knew that you had to do your best to ensure the same auditing results worldwide if Scientology were ever to grow big, just as McDonald’s learned long before that you had to make hamburgers exactly the same way at each of the restaurants, so people know what they’re going to get. But the pendulum has changed — successful companies want to be continually reinventing themselves and being more flexible than ever before. McDonalds, which didn’t change their menu for over a decade in the 1980s-1990s is now aggressively changing the menu every couple of months, and they are now back to putting the hurt on the competition, this time by being more flexible instead of being more rigid.

    Third, I am not surprised that many people worked so diligently on CSW suggestions to automate and improve things only to be shot down. As I suggested in a comment on a previous article here in the last day or two, upgrading the name and address computer system would quickly expose the lie of statistics because name and address de-duplication software is extremely good these days, and would probably cut down the number of folders by 80% or more as duplicates are discovered. And Miscavige is afraid (justifiably) that this would expose “unprecedented expansion” as a complete and utter lie.

    Lastly, it should not be so hard to run a Scientology organization that it takes years to learn what to do. From a business strategy standpoint, the Church of Scientology looks a bit like an educational tutoring company (like Kaplan SAT prep classes). It offers classes and one-on-one tutoring (auditing). The principles for running a business like that are well understood and should not take a long time to understand, especially not at the relatively small size of Scientology compared to big companies like Kaplan.

    That’s the whole point of what I’m saying: if you get rid of Miscavige and go back to strict Hubbard-based policy, you’ll still have something far more bloated and complicated than it needs to be that makes people (even good, competent, non-evil people) far less productive than they could be. Why not acknowledge Hubbard for making a pretty good guess about how an organization was run for 1954 for a guy who wasn’t a businessman by training, but start over and use modern organizational “tech” and move on?

  95. Lyn is no worse than many but isn’t an angel either. He’s motivated first for saving his own hide – once that is accomplished, he’ll take whatever he can get that earns him not JUST money but status.

    I’m not sure that Lyn could make money doing a lot of other things — there are those who seem to ONLY be able to make money IF they can twist the truth a bit —

    Sudden Slender for example — there was a huge truth stretcher —

    And didn’t Lyn BEGIN his launch into the chiropractic world etc as the ED of Lloyd Latch’s management group — not sure about this …


  96. Kevin he is well intentioned for sure and I hope he wakes up.

  97. That’s right! I forgot about involvement in that.

  98. Path of Buddha

    John P,
    You have very progressive ideas and I can relate to your thinking even though my MBA is over forty years old.
    I ran a mission about thirty years ago and found out the hard way that the MBA route is not a perfect match for selling Scientology.
    After several false starts, I realized that what Hubbard had accomplished was unique. Once I got a qualified auditor out in the field, the mission was able to create positive experience for many people. However, the same problems existed 30 years ago. Once the public person was ‘sucked up’ to a higher org, the ‘greed regging cycles’ started. At that point the whole system fell apart just as it does under miscavige.
    I actually agree that Scientology will survive only if it throws off some of its old thinking. I have been out for a very long time and enjoy every moment of freedom.
    May all beings be well and happy!
    George M. White

  99. I knew Lynn very well. And from the above posts, it seems he IS getting special treatment. CMO helping out in a class lV org? If Lynn Irons ever flipped into the Independent Movement there would be a mass exodus from the Church. DM is clearly besotted with him. As is everyone that comes within twenty five feet of him. He is slick, street smart, genius, unafraid of anything or anyone, competent, witty, controlling, dynamic, elegant, charismatic, loyal, brutally handsome and dangerous. And his former (now deceased) wife Judy was equal to him in every way.

    He has a history of pioneer work, going where others have not gone yet. He has set a lot of trends. He has always prospered but so have the people connected to him. Ruth Valko of Valko and Associates did not suffer financially in any way as a result of Lynn Irons. He built that company and basically handed it to her to manage and own.

    The bad news is, if Lynn Irons can’t make Tampa Org fly, it isn’t going to happen. And DM and everyone else from Florida to California will know it.
    No wonder DM has CMO propped up in there.

  100. Watch the film “the lives of others”. A fictional but historically correct depiction of both east Berlin (pre freedom) or life in Scientology today.

    History repeats itself.

  101. should answer your organizational questions.

  102. Thanks Chuck. There is a posted version of LRH ED 339R INT here:

  103. What Thoughful Steve said. Yeah. Death is north of the existing scene.

  104. Totally agreed, Steve. Before and after these Idle Orgs occur, suppressive acts like Musical Chairs minimally have to happen aside from the financial irregularities of the financing for those Mausoleums.

    The cycles of the org board and livingness spriraling upwards in the case of true org expansion does not occur and the place remains below death.

  105. Don’t worry about it, in my experience individuals who happily commit great evil still do things which endear people to them. In fact such people can be more endearing than the average joe.

    There was a discussion about the death of some member of the church of scientology in the UK, some thought him a very nasty piece of work while others said hang on he wasn’t all bad. My take, even Hitler had family and friends who loved him, it all depended on which side you experienced.

    Very few people are universally nasty. In my travels I’ve had fascinating conversations with people who, were i to judge them on their behavior with me I’d say they were fine people, except they’d killed people in one case several children.

    Your experience is valid, others just have to weigh it up with the rest.

  106. No worries, Kevin. Rocks are hard, and water’s wet. No defense or apology or whatever needed…at least to me. I’ve never been harmed or hurt by Lynn Irons, personally. I’m just simply relating some wacky times in San Fran. (And looking back on it all…indeed they were wacky.) 🙂

  107. North Korea is one giant “hole”, the whole population are “holies” and Kim Jung Un is David Miscavige.

    A documentary film crew went in to North Korea following a humanitarian team that did 1000 cataract operations in a week (something like that). It was freaky listening to the people praise dear leader for the return of their sight, one even said she would work even harder in the salt mines.

    Their society is totalitarian and one in which individuals are “disappeared” if someone accusses them of not supporting Dear Leader enough.

    You don’t argue with your neighbor in North Korea, then again one takes great care not to offend ones’ neighbor too.

  108. The Spaghetti Factory was in the building’s separate wing years before they bought the building. The Creative Loafing in same building upstairs. Must have a lease with them. Public come in and out of the gate for the restaurant and you don’t see any wander across the courtyard to Scn. Chances are Scn are getting rent from them to pay some bills. Only parking is metered on the street or a pay parking lot across the street. Public hardly goes into that section of town. Oh, but the building is historic and looks good, in and out, just empty and costly to visit. Real Smart!

  109. It’s a very basic establishment of delivering D&S services, below that of Mission qualification, usually a start up group intending to grow into a Mission. There may be a little more to it as I haven’t looked at that definition in 20 odd years.

  110. It’s a society based on “knowledge reports”. You keep your head down and prey you don’t have dandruff.

  111. Chris — wonderful movie. First recommended to me by John Sweeney of the BBC.

  112. … and, my Admin Dict is still in storage and sorry, but I’m not flying up there to get it for you, (unless you want to pay me).

  113. Concentration camp of $cientology, with more and more straight up / vertical Ideal Rockets being launched (and failed in the middle of air). What else we can expect? More exploded rockets (failed orgs/missions/groups/individuals), that are all suppressives to the emperor. Well, one day the emperor may finally have a successful rocket launched and sent him back to where he came from — Mars.

  114. Ingrid and Charlie, “Birds of a feather”……Lyn Irons and DM!!! I saw what the two of you saw.

  115. Fantastic Random Stranger and exactly right on!
    I should read all comments before I comment, but enjoy spontaneity.

  116. My point is they’re not dopes, they’re people who’re so suppressed they “love” their suppressor. The church of scientology is like North Korea on a smaller scale.

  117. Lynn Irons says in his comm-

    “It is quite an adventure (as you well know) and with a few critical postings, I feel we can reach St Hill Size very soon”

    How long have we heard this? How long have we heard this carrot since DM took over? How long have we heard the carrot of OT9 and OT 10 being released? How about Super duper Power?

    Round and round it goes.

    Please note Lynn Irons is always at the receiving end of money. Not the giving end. As per recalls in above posts

  118. and I might add this statement ““It is quite an adventure (as you well know) and with a few critical postings, I feel we can reach St Hill Size very soon”

    Is the same statement probably used to get OT’s in the fields to assume ED positions in Org’s by DM when he started the Ideal Org thingies. Round and round it goes. But, where’s the beef, where’s the public? What about the out-tech on F/N’s? It’s just a rhythmic sweep of the dial. Put your hand left, then sweep to the right. What about sec checking endlessly every six months on people on OT7, $7k a pop every six months.

  119. Makes sense John P. 😀

  120. “The bad news is, if Lynn Irons can’t make Tampa Org fly, it isn’t going to happen. And DM and everyone else from Florida to California will know it.”

    And DM and everyone else from Florida to California will know it.

    Explain to me me how this will happen? that everyone will know it. PT staff won’t know it. Public will not know it. The comm line is hidden. There is no open comm line. Nobody will know it. Except thru leaks here. And that is the beauty of the DM CO$ which is not COS per LRH.

  121. Great posting Mike.

    I went through East Europe by car about 10 years after the fall. The tourist type buildings were slowly being re-built but the brightest and most colorful things were the tourist cars from the West and the street signs to guide them around. I think that is what a lot of the Indie movement is about: Bright colorful signs to help guide those waking-up from a Micavige koolaide induced sleepwalk.

  122. Sorry Kevin if I mis-wrote. Ruth was the best part of IMV and true she did deliver well after Lynn and Revane left. I compressed time, but my take as a client was that I received an overt product mostly of hype and little substance. Ruth appeared to me to have the highest integrity of that group. I never had the precise data of her demise as you described but the business was not totally separate. It was a continuation of what IMV started but only Ruth remained at that point. Nevertheless, I stand corrected on your point.

  123. HCO is always weakly held by people in orgs, yet LRH states the HAS is the roughest position to hold. Got to wonder why newbies are promoted to HAS or blown off. The REG is the position to fill, those with salesmanship, crush sell abilities.

  124. Sheetrock Orgs. Love it. You have a way with words…

  125. so 7k a pop every 6 months is $3,500,000.00 at 500 OT7’s doing the level. At SO staff pay of 50 bucks. Or whatever.

  126. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ oh but forget about the out tech that people forget about.

  127. Gung-ho actually originated with the U.S. Marines’ adaptation of a Chinese phrase roughly equivalent to “all for one” (AFAIK) – meaning, all-out for the team..

  128. Dean “I am an athiest” Fox — Seems kind of odd to me that you would direct anyone to RFW for information about someone. Most of us posting here are “ex church of scientology members and declared suppressive
    persons”, as well.

    It seems kind of odd to me that you would go out of your way to point that out – especially given the fact that you were supposedly never a Scientologist yourself, so why should you care about that?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist.

  129. It was not a freeway off ramp as there is no freeway in that area. It is a parking ramp. Just wanted to make that clear as that was the org I went to and I live in the area.

    They did tear down teh building of course and the current Idle org is starting to deterioate the last I saw it the paint was starting to chip on the outside. I have not been in the area for a while but I was thinking of going to the art store nearby to check stuff out there. T

  130. Captain Bob, if you haven’t lived in local Clearwater / Tampa , it is as small town as it gets. Everyone is linked and knows what everyone else is doing and thinking. There is NOTHING down there for Scientologists but Scientology. This is where the lifers end up. The people that want to make their life in and about Scientology. They pull up roots and move down there next to the base. Lynn has been a fixture there on and off since the base opened it’s doors to the public. He has had a home there for decades. His current wife Sheryl (former Sheryl Cassano, former Sheryl Festa) is a beauty salon owner in a salon full of Scientology women all day long.
    Lynn was a fixture on the West Coast from Davis to San Fransisco. Lynn put thousands of people on the bridge through his missions and consulting practices and his friends stretch coast to coast. His comm lines are anything but hidden. Public will know it.

  131. “Please note Lynn Irons is always at the receiving end of money. ”

    That does not offend me. So are a lot of people that work hard. How would you know what Lynn Irons has not given? He financed all of the companies he set up and Missions he opened. He financed his bridge and the bridge for his wife. I doubt he is making a fortune working at the Tampa Org right now. But so what if he has demanded an exchange for his services? Money is energy, it should not be a shock that someone involved in Scientology wants to be at cause over energy. I don’t think it is true that Lynn is not on the giving end of money. And I am not going to fair game him on the internet for something I don’t know about. The class lV Orgs have street people working in them. Most of them have to keep a roof over their head. I know it hasn’t been in fashion for any of them to prosper or even move up the bridge, but it does not bother me to see one of them break the mold.

  132. Dean Fox, your exacting invalidation and evaluation and harmonic distortion within the physical universe and other valuable wisdoms are not lost here. Just so you know. Many of us are looking and listening. We could all learn something from you, no doubt.
    Please expound.

  133. Jerry, Lynn left IMV and gave that company to Ruth because his wife was dying. He was devastated when his wife finished OT8 and promptly died. They were abandoned by everyone at the Base and the Freewinds. It was as if staff got pissed at her for having the nerve to get ill after completing OT8. It was expected of Lynn to keep her hidden! She was a highly trained C/S who dedicated her life to Scientology and getting people up the bridge and she died in bed with nobody by her side but Lynn. This took months and also took Lynn back to the West Coast. The company did not go south and get offloaded onto Ruth. The company was GIFTED to Ruth and did very well until Ruth also finished OT8 and got sick and died.
    It is my understanding it is because of the huge noise Lynn made about these issues that someone looked into the OT8 materials and realized there was something very wrong with them and that is when it all came out that these people who did the original OT8 were scammed by the Church.

  134. Christ I’m glad you’re not my auditor RS, we couldn;t get anywhere for the gut wrenching laughter!

  135. Excellent analysis, Chuck

  136. John P,
    The core of KSW has to do with TECHNICAL application of the protocols of auditing, and training auditors, NOT the policy governing coordinated activity of a group.

    It’s this kind of cursory look at the body of work that ends up in silly digressions into meaningless rhetoric.

  137. 🙂

  138. Excellente! I needed a good laugh tonight.

  139. What do you mean, “given?” The wording is more properly, “extorted from parishioners.”

  140. I don’t know what is happening, but my handle should read “ingrid smith”, not oasis…..
    Oh yes there was Revein Marcus-another one!
    Charlie send me a comm to

  141. Dear The Oracle: How you perceived Lynn Irons is exactly how I perceived him. It been a couple of dozen years since I last saw him. Plus+ on your posting.

    It is too bad that Lynn’s dropped to the level of butt kissing DM. Too long a connection to DM will even destroy the highly capable. Thank God Marty, Mike and others walked out on DM.

  142. Kevin-I was unfortunately there so i know what happened-Lyn knew very much what went on and was on top of all the reg cycles. he even had reg meetings with the regges, the C/S(his wife) and DofP who would give folder data to the regges to really arm them. Lyn created those meetings and was in them. I learned about all his shenanigans cause I wanted to know what the hell was going on.

  143. John. You might think it should be easy to run a Scientology organization but it is not at all. I don’t want this to sound cheesy but Scientology is attempting to deal with a subject (men’s spiritual advancement) that has historically a very low success rate.
    For someone to be able to effectively runn a Scientology organization, especially at an international level, need to be a trained auditor, trained in scn administrative tech and should have a college level understanding of the workings of the world as well. Each of those can take months and years.
    I agree with you that a lot of policies, directives etc need to be weeded out but it is still a complex operation.
    It will be interesting to see how the independents will do once the church collapses. My guess is that eventually they will end up somewhere half way between complete independence and a completely centralized operation.

  144. typo correction above: “Plus+” should be “+1 on your posting.”.

  145. WH-How unbelievably gross….

  146. Tony Dephillips

    How noble of them to ” build for the future”. True martyrs. Blah!!

  147. Tony Dephillips

    Lol!! Thanks for all you do ….

  148. Mike – There are a lot of people who know more about the Co$ than many Scns and are very much aware of the scenes surrounding it and exploring the web isn’t a sec-check offense outside it, neither is calling oneself an atheist. Tax season is OVER as of Monday. – C

  149. Mike you are down right poetic: ” like an autumn leaf: aesthetically pleasing to the eye, but unquestionably dying if not dead.”

  150. heh buddy,

    good to see you here… I thought you didn’t give a damn about Scientology anymore… LOL hard to get out of your blood isn’t it?

  151. heh buddy,
    Is this who I think it is…

    good to see you here… I thought you didn’t give a damn about Scientology anymore… LOL hard to get this shit out of your blood isn’t it?


  152. Scientology! Yay! (A floating TA means the auditor can’t get the needle back on the dial. It falls off to either left or right – a floating needle times 10.)

  153. Nope. If you listen to the tape, it’s his voice – but does it sound like the way he talks – in over a bazillion other lectures? The answer is no. I have it from someone who worked at Int. that the tape was made to help establish RTC. Is that true or not? You decide. Pick up any ten tapes of LRH and listen to them – then listen to RJ 38 – you’ll see what I mean.

    Back in the 1980’s it was high-tech. Today, you can take a tape, and take words on that tape made by the speaker and cut them up to say anything you want him to say. Add to that voice technology, and you could literraly sound like the President giving the State of The Union address.

    A simple Google search into audio technology should answer your question.

  154. John, you have really given me food for thought here.Abandon the Org Board? Everything is open for reconsideration these days, however.

    One thing that really struck me on emerging after years in orgs was that modern businesses run a great deal by consenus, not on the strict line-of-command model. It took me some time to get used to and function in this.

    Also, the current Church is really behind in IT. Why aren’t the red volumes on searchable CD-ROM? I called Pubs Org once to ask this and they said it was not high on the priority list.

  155. Rob,
    I am rolling on the floor laughing my ass off! I remeber the shit you and Tina were going through. I was just joining staff just as you were leaving – you should have warned me! But, in your own way, you did, just by leaving. :0)



  156. To answer someone’s question on where the $250,000 comes from… When an Ideal Org building is purchased, while the rest of the funds are being raised for the renos, and the recruit mission is building the staff, and the CF mission is revamping the entire CF… Bridge has printed 500 special leather Dianetics books in that Org’s name. These special leather bounds are sold for $500 each around the world. By the time the org is ready to open, the 500 are all sold and the $250,000 is turned over to the Org’s 6A department (overseen by the mission) for what’s called the “Non-E campaign.” This money is used for billboards, newspaper ads, radio, etc. The intention is that it will create such an inflow, that the org can thereafter self-sustain their marketing campaigns in the ideal org.

  157. Roy,
    ESTO Policy? ..LOL, finding a true hatted ESTO in a class 5 Org is worse than trying to find a needle in a haystack. The ESTO/ProOff system has always(?) been a huge administrative outpoint. That is why you can get prod/offs just nailing people to the wall (probably literally) and this crazy bassakwards “expansion”.

  158. Yes, and as long as we are talkin’ about Lynn, he dumped the first bay area Applied Scholastics school on my friends lap, telling her that ‘all you have to do is teach and I will take care of the money and the students” … she agreed, and then he made like the proverbial bananna and split.

  159. @ dankoon;
    The ‘doing it for Dave’ thing made yell out loud, “that makes me sick”, and then I read the next line about “gaging”…too funny, but then I read your comm about ‘building the future’ and now it’s ROTF time. It’s so friggin stupid that I can barely confront it, so I have to keep laughing. Thanks for the comic relief.

  160. RS,

  161. Lizabeth,
    just curious, were you a supervisor at PAC?

  162. I don’t mean to suggest the above email is not an outpoint. It is. But I am missing a lot of data. I don’t think Lynn’s whole life is an outpoint and I don’t want to take it in that direction.

  163. “I have gotten the distinct impression that “public” don’t really disseminate anymore”.

    Very true. If the public ask themselves, as I did WHY they don’t disseminate and honestly confront the answers it would lead them to the rather obvious realisation that it’s because they don’t want people they know and love to have any part of it.

  164. Ah, thank you for the explanation Kevin, that makes sense.

  165. Mike, Do you suppose you really need to bypass the former RTC of Inspector and Reports and conduct a witch hunt here?

    Let me point out something.

    There are just a few hats here. There is the author of the blog. Think of Socrates in the present age. He does not have to sit in the village square surrounded by a few curious people wanting to understand what the hell happened and the hell it all means. He can post questions and informations on the net that cause people to become more aware. That is one hat.

    Then there are the people who come to listen as he has a better view of it all, and exchange ideas and thereby become more aware.

    There is no hat really that calls for interrogating the curious. Whatever “most of us here” are, we are not a gang. I have not been declared suppressive myself. So I am not in the “the most” catagory.

    When you start one of your witch hunts, it is a subtle indication that Marty is not aware of the current scene and you need to bypass him.

    Per LRH, you can therefore know your enemies by anyone who seeks to knock out a few things from beneath you. Power, support, wealth, reputation, a few other items.

    Before you move to knock out anything from beneath Marty ask yourself
    if he really needs to be bypassed.

    I really don’t think so. It seems kind of odd to me that you think you need to bypass Marty and conduct interrogations here. Marty attracts people from all walks of life. He is not limited to the comm lines of “most of us”.

    I have friends that have never been in the Church of Scientology that have read his blog upon my telling them some story about it or him.

  166. Ah Michael, it might be a little presumptuous of me to assume the audience of this blog will be familiar with the nature of Religious Freedom Watch (RFW). Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

    For those who have not heard of RFW it’s a web site that’s supposedly nothing to do with the church of scientology that claims to expose the crimes of evil anti religious people. Coincidentally all the individuals featured on the site are or have been prominent critics of the church of scientology, draw your own conclusions. They have very sensationalised write ups on these individuals (think tabloid news on steroids and speed) I doubt anyone could take them seriously except perhaps David Miscavie. Suffice to say RFW is not a source of reliable information.

    I mentioned RFW because Tory mentions it along with her Suppressive Person declare quite a bit in her videos. Hence when I think of Tory those two key points come to mind, along with what a really nice person she seems to be.

    I realise of course most here are declared suppressive people. Again I mentioned it because Tory does and in part so the audience of this blog would know that, unlike me, she was in the church of scientology and that like many in the audience she “woke up” and was declared for her trouble. Also I suspect like many here she lost her relatives who are still in but gained so much more; she appears happy and thriving.

  167. Inconclusive – it would clear up a mystery for many if anyone here knows definitively. With Winzip you can listen to it here:

  168. Ooooh that pisses me off that he sent some kid to the engine room for laundry mistake. Isn’t that sweet? Is she washing his underwear too? Who is washing DM’s underwear? Who has been entrusted with that most holy duty? Imagine being sent to clean an engine room for a laundry mistake? This is HUGE! Shoot this over to Tony Ortega for a cover special. DM brutalizes kid over laundry error! Is this for real???????????? One day that ” egyptian cotton uniform” will be on display in the Scientology Holocaust museum! Like someone’s life ruined because Tom Cruise got sick on a shrimp!

  169. Please don’t start on Wayne Fuller. He has zero history of enturbulating anybody or throwing anybody under the bus or letting anybody down. Sorry, Wayne is a stand up guy that would give you the shirt off his back.

  170. Holy crapola—that’s a stretch. “Building for the future”
    That must be Texas Moonshine Kool Aid.

  171. Miscavige’s alleged “strategy” for building orgs is the ultimate in “Quicky”. There is a boatload of LRH policy on how to build an org and no where in there does it say to bypass posting, hatting, training, building up a trained and audited field – by crush regging for large quantities of money to build empty palaces to supposedly attract people, gang pressing people from other orgs to staff the place, and raise money by more crush regging to substitute for the org earning its way by honest delivery of the actual products of good training and auditing. Quicky orgs – just add crush-regged, no-exchange funding – is a recipe for disaster and it is clear in LRH Policy. I remember when the Buffalo strategy emerged and the Buffalo evolution took place, and I thought to myself this had nothing to do with LRH Policy. Mr. Quicky has managed what no one before him could have done, i.e. terminal across-the-boards squirreling of LRH tech and policy. And he has the unmitigated audacity to label his critics as heretics and squirrels.

  172. No worries and I agree about Ruth. Lynn has certainly been involved in a lot of odd 3D situations. I was pretty amazed he was put on as ED Tampa after being part of the SF MIssion mess.

  173. There is no doubt, as you know, that the SF Mission went very, very wacky and Lynn was central to that wackiness. Behrooz, the bookstore officer, was an utter embarrassment. However as long as the money flowed in and went up the line to Bridge, etc. everyone was happy. What eventually happened was quite predictable. That Lynn was put on as ED Tampa is really amazing when you look at the mess he helped create at SF Mission.

  174. To be honest the more I recall what Lynn has been involved the more I scratch my head on how he ever became the ED Tampa. Lynn should stay in Div 6 doing lectures. That’s what he’s good at. He’s also a very good recruiter. But it is obvious he is an utter failure as an exec with a resume of being involved in numerous failed 3Ds. Oh wait, that’s why he was chosen! 🙂

  175. You nailed it on what Lynn is good at: Developing pioneer areas. That’s is where his talent lays and where he has gotten products. Once an activity gets rolling he should be extracted and sent off to another pioneer area to start something else and so on.

  176. Joe Pendleton

    Thank you Chuck and John P – fascinating points you both bring up here in your posts.

    I just re-read 339R. CMO, WDC, Exec Strata….. and you, might add RTC and others. LRH wrote tons of policy and I think the vast majority of his writings on organization are not only extremely interesting, but also contain important applicability, which of course is mainly his objective. But I think in totality, taking all of these policies together, Ron violated one of his most stable datums – that the degree of complexity is equal to the degree of non confront. I do realize that many of his later policies and series (like Org series) were an effort to get his earlier stuff more understood.

    But the tremendous complexity! The Org Board itself is involved enough (and I’m not finding fault with it as its functions are indeed functions which need to be fulfilled in most businesses or even lives as we figure out personally when we do LOC), but it “wasn’t enough” when the International Org Board kept being worked on. What I mean is this: HCO puts the org there, Qual corrects it and keeps it there (along with HCO functions of course) and the Exec Div is responsible for coordinating it all. And at one point internationally, Ron kept the same basic structure with Commodore’s Staff for Div 1 being senior to all Div 1’s and reporting to LRH, etc. But it all kept “growing” – so who overlooks it all and makes sure it is “all OK” and on point and policy and tech? Why, there’s the Watchdog Committee….. no wait, thee’s the Commodore’s Messenger Org …… wait, there’s “Exec Strata”, which I think the previous two are included in…… there used to be (still is?) the Flag Rep network to make sure management intention is being carried through….. the LRH Comm network (we had this in the 70s and 80s) to make sure “LRH’s postulates stick”, which basically means all of his policies and bulletins are being followed…… then the RTC which REALLY make sure things are all on LRH tech and policy…..and it goes on and on and on… just look at the poster of all the org boards and seniorities in Scientology.

    Whew !!!!!!!!!!

    And so, how ironic it is that a dictator takes over this whole vast bureaucracy by simply reverting to a very old time honored tradition in autocratic societies…….”I’m the all powerful big boss and you all will do everything I tell you to do or suffer the consequences” ….. and essentially with that attitude and the cleverness and nerve to back it up, ALL of the vast complexities of two plus decades of thousands of LRH policies go by the wayside….

    That’s usually what happens when there’s simply TOO much. Extremely basic and vital writings like “Essay on Management”. “Theory of Scientology Organizations” and one of my personal favorites “Expansion – Theory of Policy” get lost. The basic ideas are not really applied in any effective way as folks can take one or two lines out of context from one of thousands of LRH writings and miss the overriding basic ideas. You can of course blame misunderstoods and bad training and you’d no doubt be correct in most cases, but so many of the “frozen at the controls” and no real responsibility taken by individuals in Scientology comes from the hugely bloated, complex structure of the overall organization as it was developed over the years. Yes, folks have argued that the US Constitution is a bit too brief (there are of course still debates over the meaning and applicability of the first and second ammendments and just a couple of weeks ago, we saw the debate in the Supreme Court over the differing views of what the Constitution means when it says that Congress has the hat of “regulating interstate commerce.”) But I would argue that is the better way to go and the US Constitution has been more effective for the USA than the complexity of the totality of policy has been for Scientology (and I might add that the US Constitution has in many of its parts been copied throughout the world and so is actually as an idea expanding – its stats up in dissemination, which Scientology is no longer doing).

    To close here, just look at the not understanding of and non application of one of the most basic of all LRH policies, that of “Senior Policy.” Take a look at what “senior” means – not JUST most important, , but also “higher in rank or status” (Oxford American Dict). So to service the public and deliver what is promised, an exec in a Scientology Organization could actually claim that any action he took in that regard (and any OTHER policy he needed to ignore or over-ride to do that action) would be VERY much justified. Pretty simple and vital, but …. in my three and a half decades on staff and also as a public, I’ve hardly ever seen that done. But I HAVE seen 75% of the staff at an org suddenly completely fixated on the policy that all students need to have their own materials (written by LRH of course before the BC lectures were all mass produced and another 15 G’s or so was added to a student’s credit cards) and yet completely ignored the most basic of all policies. Yes, you can always “blame” any number of execs for all this mis-application, but I will make the case that the BASIC on all this is simply TOO MUCH of a too intricately and involved bureacracy out distancing anything even conceived of in the old Soviet Union.

    I do NOT think this will be the case for the future of Scientology as the Independant Movement will almost certainly focus on the very basic LRH organizational ideas and add the others as they become applicable and necessary. Unfortunately, the boom of the 70s really ended (the beginning of the end) at the 1982 SF Mission Holder’s Conference when Miscavige really ended any indpendance in Scientology and started to fully establish the top heavy total dicatorship. BUT, conditions were all set up for him to do that.

    *added note: and if you think this loss of independance of local Scientology just began at that point, think again. I remember very well in the 70s (I was OES Org Officer before I became a CS) that our ED was followed around the org CONSTANTLY by the Flag Rep, who charted his every move and how the Paid Comps were doing on an hourly basis, not just making sure he followed Flag Programs. She sat in on most EC meetings as well. Also she was joined much of the time by the LRH Comm who was “on” the ED a lot to make sure LRH EDs were complied with. Yes, and there was the Guardian’s Office network, and the FBO network…… sheesh… and you think the President of the USA has a complicated bunch of people to please…. of course, much simpler nowadays, just do “command intention” (Davey of course).

  177. Good God, WH! So sorry you went through such tough times. But look at you now 🙂 🙂 🙂

  178. RE: Building an Org VS Pioneer Areas: This is in response to those who mentioned how able Lyn is and what he did with Russia, Valko, etc …

    And the MESS he is predicted to make with the Tampa Org (IMHO).

    LRH speaks directly to pioneer types who are either TOO stupid or something (can’t remember) to follow simple policy. They operate best in PIONEER areas, getting something started and THEN someone who CAN follow policy and build predictably and stably will take over.

    Lyn is a pioneer type. He is charismatic and “fearless” — going where others have never gone.

    BUT to think he can and will BUILD an org — folly.

    Jens Bogvard was a pioneer, and there are others. But they cannot and will not BUILD an org.

    That takes fearlessness, patience, a dedicated purpose that does NOT put themselves FIRST. Pioneers HAVE to be FIRST — it’s their nature and serves well in a pioneer area.



  179. Wow! The Church of $cientology’s current stats are sinking rapidly, but the ronbots shouldn’t worry because Co$ is “building for the future.”

    Somewhere there must be a list of all the stupid rationalizations dictators in decline spout to keep the final few slaves bowing down.

    Thanks for that one, Dan.


  181. Kevin: You must be channeling me 🙂

    See my later post about pioneer areas …

  182. Or I’m channeling you 🙂

  183. TheWidowDenk

    Ah ha! That explains why I was called to purchase a special leather Dianetics book in an org’s name for $500.00. Somewhere in Texas, I believe, several years ago. I didn’t buy it.

  184. The body slams weren’t the worst — it was when these teen age morons would go out rattle snake hunting and bring them back.

    Now THAT scared me. Not to mention how inept I thought they were with their 45’s — the place was a good replica of hell.

    Propelling me forward to do whatever I can to enable myself and others NOT TO LIVE in hell.

    Thanks for your kind words 🙂


  185. The Oracle: I remember this what you’ve posted about Lyn and his wife.

    As for Lyn correcting OT VIII — it’s worse now than when I did it, his wife did it and Ruth did it.

    People are STILL dying from OT VIII, still going irrevocably nuts.

    He might have TRIED to fix it — but with dm at the wheel — it will never happen.

    Lyn is a good guy just hooked to dm. Lyn’s whole life has been in the limelight of scientology – he’d be without any “beingness” were he to leave and wake up — OR SO HE THINKS.

    He’s doing himself the biggest disservice he ever could — he is living a life that is NOT authentic. He lacks the BIGGEST courage there is — to live a life that is TRUE to yourself, not what is expected by others.


  186. morelivesthanacat

    That’s rumor mongering. Ask Dan Koon. I seem to recall he directed Ron Clifford (“RAV”) and commented on it in this blog. And I believe, besides the fact that LRH was much older and hadn’t lectured in years, it was done in the 12 mic battery (12 high quality microphones balanced around his body, set up by LRH himself for such purposes, though I believe it was the first and last use.

  187. “… sit in the village square surrounded by a few curious people wanting to understand what the hell happened and [what] the hell it all means.” ROFL! Classic!

  188. You are correct WH.

    An additional factor is that central orgs are meant to be just that, central. Meaning they would be a stable datum for smaller orgs, missions and groups, created by the pioneers. Miscavige destroyed all that in 1981 when he made sure that no able bodied person would ever dare to create a booming mission or group for that matter. What Miscavige did to the successful mission holders (declaring them on the spot) served as a warning to others. As a consequence, central orgs have suffered since.

    True to his style of course, Miscavige makes orgs wrong for this. His Ideal Org “program” is one big make wrong.The horse is now before the cart. Irons was successful in the mission field but could see the wring on the wall.

  189. Path of Buddha

    The Oracle,
    Thanks for the missing information about Ruth and OT8.
    After I completed the original OT8, a friend of mine, who also completed, walked around thinking that his body was going to blow up and burn any minute. He was terrified. Another completion thought she was a kamikazi pilot and kept ‘crashing in to the Freewinds’.

    May all beings be well and happy,
    George M. White

  190. WH – Sorry you were put through that. It’s an example of deviant behavior to pervert Scn into an excuse to commit overts..- Carcha.

  191. That’s scarily like they’re in the batten down the hatches and weather the storm mode; we must prepare for when the storm passes (the mothership arrives / judgement day / the
    ressurection blah, blah).

    If they’re buying in to that I really hope they wake up before David Miscavige decides they all need to regroup in the next life time when LRH will lead them to a glorious victory or something similar that compels them to mass suicide.

  192. I hope you’re being sarcastic because reading what I wrote I think perhaps I’d had more vodka than I thought.


  193. OMG! what would happen if someone shrunk his silk knickers????

  194. Alexis de Tocqueville

    I gotta come out of the closet one day soon. I read this blog and the comments folks post and realize ‘how cut off’. By way of a heart-breaking example, I did not know Ruth Valko had dropped the body. Too young when she did so.

    This post of Mike’s fills a gaping info gap with respect to Tampa Org. Living in the greater Tampa Bay area for several years now, it’s not hard to recall the fanfare to which the old cigar factory on Himes or Habana Avenues (?) was opened in 2003. ‘Historic building’ and all that pomp and circumstance, as though they’re doing the community such a huge favor. If you’re really community-minded, an entity such as a church exempt from property tax restoring and inhabiting an historic building has very little tangible exchange value. More, Hillsborough County has way too many churches to begin with — of all sorts of denominations — which leaves the rest of us to bear the burden where county taxes on real property is concerned, particularly with respect to millage rates. But I digress.

    Then, lo and behold, Tampa Org is announcing a new grand opening of a building down in the Ybor City section where most of the younger-crowd night life can be found, albeit they poorly chose the site imo as the building is near or on the western edge of YC and not really ‘where the action is’ closer to Centro Ybor. I’m a fossil and even I know that. I guess they have really great body routers.

    Not long ago, I drove past the place on Sunday afternoon when the Foundation Org’d be in full swing, based on how things were back when I got in during the 70s. Having seen the photos, the nigh to shabby air the place had, though a lovely old brick building right by the trolley tracks, and the dearth of life, save the private security dick out front, was shocking.

    Mike, I may have missed an earlier posting — what does the ‘R’ in ‘RCS’ stand for?

    And thanks for a very informative post.

  195. “Personal Growth Enhancement” sounds like one of those creams that the junk e-mails flooding my inbox are always trying to sell me, promising me tons of “unprecedented expansion” in a “straight up and vertical” kind of way.

  196. Hey WH – have you told this story in detail before? I mean, wow. Why Tahoe?

  197. I was doing a drill at Tampa Org, circa 2004, and the sup said I was doing it wrong. I showed her my references and she said that’s not how they do it at Flag. I was do it the way they do it at Flag or go to Ethics. I went to Ethics and the EO said do it the way the supe said or don’t be on course till I got a letter back from RTC or whomever saying I’m right. Didn’t matter what references I had.

  198. And I completed thinking that past and future lives were a lie … (I completed about 2 weeks before you did, George)

    Needless to say — THAT torqued my psyche a bit 🙂


  199. Tony Dephillips

    I used to be the Dir. I&R at Sterling for awhile and knew Wayne Fuller pretty good. We even went shark fishing. He’s a cool guy. Very able. I hope he wakes up. Last time I saw him at Flag he was getting free sec checks (woo hoo) while being the ED Tampa.

  200. Dean, your comment here reflects one of my favorited Professional Auditor’s Bulletins (PABs), PAB 95 “Valences.” An excerpt:

    “As another example, one is told consistently and continually that all men of force or all conquerors are bad, and one is warned never to become a conqueror. This is of course an excellent way to make nothing out of an individual, but here we have a false valence—a personality which never existed—and we discover in the lives of the conquerors that they actually were not totally possessed of bad characteristics. In order to dominate his fellow beings to the marked extent necessary in a conqueror, one could not possess totally bad characteristics, and the actual character of most conquerors is quite different than the assigned character given them by the society—a fact which does not make a conqueror any less liable for the crimes he commits, but which gives us an insight into the tailor-making of characters who never lived.”

    The point being that as bad as people like Hitler were, the historical “Hitler” does not reflect the “Real Hitler”. The Hitler persona (“valence”) is a collective invention by all of us.

  201. Mr. David Miscavige has an MU on what an “org” is. It is not a building. It is a coordinated group of people banded together to achieve a common purpose. When you replace one building with another, you are not creating a new “org” you are creating a new shell for the org. Talk about shell games!

    When you have a group of people trying to get along, and then saddle them with a behemoth of a building that increases their costs by 5.4X, you are suppressing the group of people – the org. The “Ideal Org” program is therefore suppressive. The stats are supporting this.

    Ron never confused an org with a building. Most people don’t.

    Image and symbols are all that matter to Miscavige. HIS image, and HIS symbols.

  202. Tony Dephillips

    I heard someone was RPF’d for not fully erasing one of his skid marks. He was declared a list one rock slammer for returning d’s undies back an overt product.

  203. Tony Dephillips

    RCS=Radical Church of Scientology. I believe.

  204. ROFL

  205. Betsy, awesome!!!!!! I can feel it!!
    Love Carol

  206. The same old LDW

    No. LRH said that there were 200 students co-auditing in the academy.

    At Tampa, when they went “Saint Hill Size” there were two staff co-auditing on M1, one couple co-auditing on objectives and a total of four people actually training to be auditors in the academy.

    How do I know? I was there and I actually counted them.

    I asked Mike, the reg at the time how many people were in the academy training to be auditors and his response was, “why do you want to know?”

    That was when I was young and ignorant of the overall scene.

    A couple of other interesting points regarding their so-called Saint Hill Sized Org:
    I was there for five months on my IV internship. During that time there was a cramming officer on post for two weeks out of five months.
    The tech/admiin ratio was approximately 8 admin to 1 tech.
    The last five new people I brought in for service all left within and hour because of high-pressure regging and a “creepy” feeling they got from the staff.
    Out of 135 staff there were only three people who could deliver NED.
    The average number of basic course students on a daily basis was four. Four, in a facility that could easily handle a hundred between Ibor test center and the org on Havanna.

    If you took the actual Ideal Org Program written by LRH and evaluated it against the existing scene in Tampa, there was nothing but out-points.

    The staff apparantly believe with ferosity thier own as well as davey’s GLOWING BUT FALSE REPORTS.

    The sheer simplicity of building an org by simply learning some LRH tech and applying it with ARC to help others seems to elude these folks. I guess their delusions of grandeur don’t allow such menial actions to interfere with their grandiose plans.


  207. No Jewel. I just really think what John P. has written makes a lot of sense. I got my business sense from working with my husband OT7, CL6, former SO member, Mission holder. We had a successful business for 22 years and I learned from him.

  208. Ya know Jim, when newbie Scientologists who are almost uniformly dissafected by their contact with these Ideal Orgs, come calling me on the 866-XSEAORG number, I tell them to read Janet Reitman’s book, “Inside Scientology” and take the implied challenge at the end of Janet’s book.

    Which is that it will be up to the young new generation of official Scientologists who rise up, wise up, and fix their movement internally.

    But that’s such a ridiculous challenge, I then jokingly say: “Well, then just join the freezone and Independent Scientology movement, get all the tech for free off the internet, or for 1.99 per book cheap on Amazon, and do it with other free independent Scientologists, and just wait till next lifetime to see what things will be like when Miscavige is gone.”

    I tell them to do like people have advised, just get ALL the tech for free off the internet.

    My current top piece of advice to people insisting on finding out about the tech, get it for free on the internet, freezone sites, and when official Scientology regs come calling, tell them “I’m buying the books I want off Amazon for 1.99 per book, and I’m gonna wait till next lifetime after Miscavige is gone!”

  209. ingrid, oh yes, indeed, good ole Revein. Now that was a complete crazy. I will never forget the day Steve Basio brought him to our home for a briefing. I had recovered people who had been off of the bridge and thought it could be a good afternoon…..not, it was a complete nightmare. Told them both…look at that door, now open that door, now GET OUT and don’t ever come back!!!!!!

  210. ” He is slick, street smart, genius, unafraid of anything or anyone, competent, witty, controlling, dynamic, elegant, charismatic, loyal, brutally handsome and dangerous. ”

    With all of the above comes responsibility!

  211. Added note. My husband was also an English Lit. teacher in London. He worked in between Scn gigs at the American Consulate office, a wog job to pay off freeloaders debt, sales job. His side line in the states was counseling and TIR (Traumatic Incident Reduction) Counselor. He was much more educated than meh. How lucky was I to meet and marry him? postulate? karma?
    Look what you got for your curiosity 🙂

  212. Thanks Grasshopper, that’s where I was heading with that one but having had a few to drink I evidently began being a bit inventive towards the end.

    I’ve never spoken with a child killer. I have seen recorded interviews with killers who were “quite charming”. Not quite the same thing. Getting carried away with myself I’m afraid.

  213. “Goodbye to Lenin” is another gem that has echoes in DM’s propaganda machine.

  214. And I have a friend who did OT VIII around 1989 or 1990, who drank himself in to an early grave and died recently at the age of 68.

    Geeze, Dave, I can hardly wait. NOT.

  215. One reason for his “failed 3D” is him being a core competency:

    A unique ability that a company acquires from its founders or develops and that cannot be easily imitated. Core competencies are what give a company one or more competitive advantages, in creating and delivering value to its customers in its chosen field. Also called core capabilities or distinctive competencies.

    A.K.A. “Working installations” in Scn lingo.

    He establishes the identity of an activity with his fingerprint. When he pulls out the core competency is lost. The 3d folds.

    This is a real situation. Look at the total tail spin the C of S has gone into since Marty and Mike pulled out from under DM. THEY were the core competency, NOT DM. He hid behind them. Mike Rinder was the best P.R. person the Church ever had. Geeze Christ he could win an election.

    Marty solved every PTP that hit DM’s plate.

    Look at the solutions DM puts out there. Squirrel Busters! That 3d is in tailspin.

    This does not mean Mike and Marty have a failed 3D. DM lost the core competency. It sure as hell wasn’t him.

  216. black knight

    the key question is do you want others to have similar wins and gains?
    I do not want my friends having the same shit as i got .

  217. Anyone with a copy of “Flag Relative Importances” the Sea Org policy issue, that’s somewhat a clue about the hoopla focus on the Class 5 orgs today.

    Since Miscavige doesn’t share his strategic decision making process, it’s only guesswork what else is on his mind for making the glitzy reno’d buildings.

    I keep think that in terms of all the people who are NOT moving up the Bridge, their support of the buildings might privately be a “next lifetime” hope that at least those buildings will be there next lifetime, because NOT getting up the Bridge is the experience of the majority of them!

    There used to be an advertisement in one of the Tech films, about a young teenager walking up to a Receptionist of some futuristic Class 5 org, and the young man announces “I’m back!!”

    It’s an ad for the Scientology Passport.

    That ad is full of future lives implications.

    Another longterm thought, I read in a sidebar Wall Street Journal article in the early 1990s, a groaning comment backhand complaint that with the 1991 edition green and red volumes, that fact of publishing LRH’s works were thus going to inevitably result in making Scientology a subject that will ensnare/interest a certain number of people for a LONG time.

    Well the buildings as “islands of sanity” in the sea or the world’s craziness, that IS an LRH long term concept.

    And now that factually and physically there are these buildings (empty as they are, due to a variety of valid complaints and factors) and now that there are this huge mass of Hubbard books all over, Hubbard’s certainly put his name out there, and there’s the apparency that his subject is “open for business.”

    Most of the calls on the 866-XSEAORG number are new people, who somehow haven’t seen the internet negative stuff, but all my recent calls once I point callers to the internet, they agree with all the complaints listed on this blog.

    It’s gonna be beyond our lifetimes to see the long term effects, is all I continue to think.

  218. I met the Irons family in 1984. Judy was a woman for the ages; a special being with a big heart and the skills of a respected Class VIII auditor and CS. Their youngest daughter, Atlanta, was super-bright and vivacious. I am horrified to think of her at Int as DM’s steward, if that is the daughter serving on that post.

    Judy died in 1997 from a cancer that is 100% curable when diagnosed and treated early. I got the impression that she didn’t get any kind of routine gynecology screening and her cancer was diagnosed when it was metastatic. Even then she didn’t pursue conventional medical treatment. Her death was a huge blow across her active and far-reaching dynamics.

    Ruth Valko died from advance ovarian cancer. She had symptoms for at least two years before she sought treatment. By then, way to late. Mercifully she died right after surgery. She had an excellent surgeon who opened her up, realized how seriously advanced the cancer was and closed her up again; nothing she could do. Had Ruth survived that surgery she would have suffered horribly.

    These women put too much faith in Scientology. Whether it can prevent cancer or not, once a person has cancer no amount of auditing will make it better.

    And cancer is NOT caused by loss (or whatever) on the 2-D. Sorry, but people buying that as a solution are DEAD. While there is nothing wrong with cleaning up losses and overts-withholds on the 2-D, that is not going to stop cancer.

    Here is what I want people (and especially women) to understand:

    1. There is no substitute for a healthy lifestyle: nutrition, exercise, adequate sleep, stress reduction, avoiding toxic chemicals, xrays, etc.

    2. Get preventive health care and screening. No woman in this country should EVER die of cervical or uterine cancer or colon cancer EVER! Medical care is not bad or worthless. It saves lives.

    3. Scientology will NOT protect you from getting cancer (or any other disease for that matter). It MAY be preventive (handling OW, PTS, etc) but that is completely unproven. By all means, audit and train, but don’t let that be a substitute for medical screening and care.

    4, Remember that Scientology is only a part of your eight dynamics. Never allow it to subsume them.

    Lynn Irons is a victim of Scientology. He lost a wife he didn’t have to lose, maybe more than one of his three daughters is in thrall to Scientology, his entire life has been subsumed by it. And he is the ED of a Class V org. Not a very good hand as he approaches his senior citizen years. Who knows how that will play out for him. Get out Lynn.

  219. Moving Forward

    Lynne — Same thing happened in DC, actually, although it wasn’t completely devoid of life as was Buffalo. I went through the ‘old’ new DC building a few years back and the staff outnumbered the public by about 4-1 — and this on a weekend day. Div 6 was completely empty.

    I heard they moved or were moving to yet another new building since then. Those crowds should be pouring in any day now… Yep, any day.

    I never saw Mountain View’s building, but I know it was apparently in a residential area for some reason. They opened up a testing center on THE main street in MV — an area with plenty of body traffic — but that closed down.

  220. Tony Dephillips

    Just as a data point, I saw a Youth for Human Rights add on Italian T.V. tonight in Rome. I don’t think it’s doing much for RCS image. Oh, by the way Dm the Vatican puts any of your Idle Orgs into the stone age. You can’t even win on a mest level.

  221. When I started in the seventies, dianetics and scientology gave me the hope to rehab very intimate feeling. It was very near my soul. Every word of LRon Hubbard I would understand while listening to Jefferson Airplane,
    Santana… I was heading really for higher state of beingness. There was
    a duplication of the purpose to move on up higher.
    It was positioned on modernism of this time.

    Now scientology is positioned as a fascist group to the image of Miscavige. He actually looks like a soviet apparatchik.
    Scientology has shrinked to be a little cult. it is so far from what it really was.
    I used to pop on the org and talk about my case with the guy on the reception, and he was interested. You felt you could tell anything to anyone there and you would be understood.
    I would look at the grade chart. I loved the EP of OTVI “ability to operate exterior”. That was it was all about. Going exterior, being OT.
    I did read a novel of Ray Bradbury from “the golden apple of the sun”, a short story , “the little april witch”, a story of a little girl moving out of her body and flying over the country.
    It inspires me on my purpose for going up the bridge.
    I had a lot of wins, but this state remained a failed purpose.
    I’m no longer young, my body is in a bad shape. I have been betrayed.
    Dm is a criminal on the 7th dynamic.
    The distance between him and the purpose of total freedom is huge, opposite.
    Hope he will pay. But we have been all blind coward. To some degree our punishment is to still be homo sapiens.
    Scientologist : the blind leading the coward.

  222. Richard Royce

    Moving Forward,
    Thank you for the link to John Cleese. That was brilliant. It nails the current flavor of the Church absolutely!!!!!!!!

  223. Yep, it is absolutely LRH. He concocted it as a PR message to parishioners after the messes in 1982 and 83, created by Wonderboy himself false reporting to LRH about all manner of things. Anyway, I had been the Director in Cine for a while (and he most unsuccessful in the long and rocky history of Cine) and DM pulled me up to direct Ron Clifford who had been a voice talent for radio stations before joining the SO and had a good set of pipes. That is definitely LRH on that tape.

  224. Poetic and a lot of truth. This is not the final curtain though. Neither Lynn or Wayne Fuller come in on the loosing side in any game. It is not their style. I am only suggesting we keep the porch light on for both of them. They both belong in this group.

    Meanwhile, when they do wander over here, this is for them:

  225. I would also guess that those two types of providers have a major chip on their shoulder, economically speaking, since they make a lot less than most categories of physicians but they have often put in as much time getting their degrees. So they are probably a lot more receptive to any “admin tech” to help them boost their income, particularly if it is along the line of all that scummy get-rich-quick stuff like aggressive pre-selling of complex treatment plans that WISE typically recommends. It is those people with an economic inferiority complex that are easy pickings for WISE reg’s.

    I bet the number of high-end medical specialists (surgeons, anesthesiologists, cardiologists, etc) using WISE inspired “ripoff tech” is close to zero, because they don’t have to engage in questionable business practices to make tons of money, more than most chiropractors and dentists will ever see. And they’re also deadly afraid of being sued, because they know the amount of time it costs them to defend against even a bogus case.

  226. 30 years of Miscavige is similar to 70 years of sovietism.
    We are the only people on free countries to have been subjected to a totalitarian group.
    When DM will be gone there will be an upsurge of hope, life, health, joy…

    The removal of DM will be as a relief on the 7th as the death of Hitler on the 4th.
    After 2ndWW, suddenly all this terror was gone from the present time.

    If some OSA read this blog, please, in the name of freedom, go on his office, put him under arrest, throw him on the hole, and you will have done the same help to mankind than Stauffenberg if he would have succeed in killing Hitler.

  227. Brett you are incorrect. LRH did make that tape. It is not doctored. Probably why his manner of speaking sounds different to you is that he asked for and was given a script for his talk, so he was not talking extemporaneously like he usually does. Also he took the script and just did it, he did not reject it a million times like dickhead does with the speeches written for him.

  228. Path of Buddha

    That’s interesting. I completed OT8 in OK shape since I had just about memorized the PDC lectures while I was in Canada during the very cold winters.
    The PDC lectures acted as a buffer and whatever narrative was thrown at me, I had an answer of some type. Once I finished OT8 and met miscavige, I wanted nothing at all to do with scientology. The OT8 narratives made me conclude that I was better off on another path.
    I re-discovered the Buddha after a few years of decompression.
    The rest is history. In the end, I did not need the ontology of Scientology and found out about the diamond within.
    Much metta,(loving-kindness)
    George M. White

  229. HannibalTheFirst

    Cheer up friend. We will get out of this mess.
    You have to give DM some credit. He indeed manages to extract hundreds of thousands of $$ from upper level preOT’s for their own self destruction.
    The Nazis had the method of having the jews pay for their own funeral, before they killed them. Davie is even better than that he offers a status of OT that best can be described as the total loss of the ability to think, and makes them cough up big time money for it. Talking about a neat trick.
    I heard Sea Org is now showing and ED from I think from 1982 where Ron approves of Scientology management to “prove” Davie is the chosen one. It does not even occur to them that there are 30 years between this issue and 2012, or the plain fact that the almost all the menagment staff of that time, except the dwarf himself are off post, demoted and destroyed or blown.
    If this ED from 1982 proves anything, than the fact that DM has worked against LRH and demolished the management praised by LRH. Any first grader with his head screwed on straight would detect that that. But here is the Sea Org dead agenting opposition to DM with an ED that exactly proves that DM is an SP and is working against LRH. These “elite Sea Org” Fratzkes are so PTS and robotic that they lost all ability to think. And rather than ripping the Sea Org Fratzke a new one for the attempt to bullshit them, some OT VII and OTVIII consider this as prove that LRH obviously approved DM’s regime.
    That is why I say cheer up my friend. If a vicious dictator has to disable the mind of his followers, he has not much time left. This robot army will crush and burn.

  230. Fascinating info, all. Fascinating and thanks so much for sharing.

    Perhaps it is indeed as Karen has told me, count my blessings for missing out on it.

  231. Dear John P,
    Your questions make me go way more in depth, to lengths I’d have to think more about to answer properly in summary, the harshest critics, and some of the high ranking exited members and even some who’ve been successful leaders in businesses have commented already.

    No, the Hubbard writings are NOT complex, there’s just a lot to disagree with, frankly, because most good business people take the easiest and best of Hubbard’s, and use it wisely with their sane own common sense.

    But the problem, Hubbard’s problem he gives top administrators, is his confining rules about how much the top people have to be “on source” while at the same time, they face daily the ramifications of the Hubbard policies (disconnection can so easily be wrongly executed is the biggest all time fault of Hubbard’s, along with the accumulating number of penalties that are excommunicatable that he began issuing from 1965 to the end of his life).

    It is the accumulation of his penalty rules, which hamper the top administrators (Exec Strata are supposed to be the “think tank”), it is THEY who get nailed and fussed over and nitpicked to death by CMO Int and RTC and now DM who has nitpicked the top managers into non existence and imaginary “treason” and “suppressive” failures!

    I’d say in answer to your first comment, that it is Hubbard’s unfortunate LARGE accumulation of “High Crimes” and “Suppressive Acts” which allow a bully tyrant who bullied and prevented saner people standing up to him, there’s just too much Hubbard admin writings that any admin person can condemn themselves for violating, and it takes a really unbelievable amount of self confidence and bottom line almost a “I’m better than you (you being DM), and you’re wrong (meaning DM is wrong), and then facing honestly a standoff with DM.

    DM being the one to utilize ALL of Hubbard’s penalty condemnatory writings to bully ALL around DM, 24/7, which is DM’s “winning” the what I consider today, the “Lord of the FLies” “King of the Mountain”, or in LRH’s PDC lectures justification “Boots in the Sky” “top dog” and “final buck stops here” ultimate “leader” service facsimile (fixed idea).

    See, it just gets too messy discussing the admin BS mentality of the “top” leaders who had to face off Miscavige, and who submitted to DM’s “superiority” which ultilmately is human bully and power from LRH, being the guy who had the “comm lines” to LRH, with Pat Broeker.

    Naw, I defer to hearing MORE public domain stories, and I defer to waiting until Marty’s book is out.

    Marty’s book I hope goes into Marty’s view of things, and hopefully Marty’s book is NOT too editorializing in the history details.

    Hopefully Marty saves his editorializing conclusions for the end, and hopefully Marty draws on the “Gang of Five’s” viewpoints.

    LRH wish the “best” for us, and in truth, in history, there is no perfect human being, so what actually the “best” to any of us means, comes down to a LOT of details about that person’s life.

    The MORE history from people who knew LRH, the better, and of course, that you, a person not even privvy to the LRH “high wine” writings, and who hasn’t sifted and absorbed nor taken seriously (most honest ex leaders have turned 95% percent against Hubbard, and this is my opinion, but I believe that good honest surveying will back my opinion up, since I tend to be MORE of an apologist for the best in Hubbard and the best in the movement and the best in the freezone, if you know the A-J PTS types, I’m honestly a Type H on acid) , I’m bottom line most hopeful that Marty and Mike and all the big ex cheezes inspire a NEW human tradition of transparency about Scientology and about Hubbard.

    Your questions are overwhelming for my nerd brain, sorry.

    Your comments are so essay length, that my answers would be chapter length, to honestly satisfy me in feeling I did your questions justice.

    You’re one hell of a good observer though.


  232. Well at least you were sober enough to catch a glimpse of what I was saying, so we’ll call it fair enough for now.

  233. I was in the Bay Area mid 88 through mid 90, albeit mostly MTV, giving myself here, but whatever. Reg cycles a little nutty, no way!! LOL

  234. giving myself “away” here

    Reg cycles nutty? Hell I invented nutty.

  235. I popped into Buffalo Org back 2006. Since I was in the area for a short spell, did several course periods on my PTS/SP Crs. Admittedly I was there only afternoons, but the Academy at best had 3 or 4 other students. My girl friend at the time, was also getting auditing on NED, a couple evenings I waited for her in the HGC, and I was the only one there.

  236. John P, (2nd answer)
    Honestly, the answers to your questions and comments, and implications, are answers that in a best case scenario world, if the movement had people able to hear your comments, and were capable of sanely answering without fear to any bullying CEO/COB, would be the way out of the mess.

    Like Jim Logan and Marty earlier commented, this is just so stratospheric theorical and pie in the sky, the experience in the trenches at the top ranks didn’t even begin to entertain or appreciate these “rhetorical” (better word is hypothetical/sane interpretations of Hubbard’s writings) discussions I’ve led you to go into here.

    In one sense, take Hubbard seriously, and you have to have brute power to prevail in the trenches at the top, against the Miscaviges, but then you have to have outside world smarts to see where Hubbard’s admin theories are wrong, and to look for the Hubbard loopholes to a saner administrative modified future, that accomplishes bottom line goals for the movement, without perpetuating the hated characteristics of the movement (characteristics that are unintended or possibly character flaws of Hubbard himself).

  237. Very grateful! The day might come, when official Scientology behaves like the freezone, and makes EVERYTHING free. Like that wonderful quote the freezone people use as their stable datum, which I wholly agree with them is the best justificiation for spreaking LRH’s ideas.

  238. I’d like to second GH’s request for more detail – for one thing, that post was about as “sudden” as ever expect to see WH get, and for another, I’m curious about Tahoe being involved as a location.

    Honest to God, rattlesnakes?? I watched a special that Greta did last night on the Manson family reining psycho out in the desert. I know what WH described was not the Mansons, but it sure sounds like a bunch of nut jobs committing mayhem. In the name of their religion?? It truly boggles the mind.

  239. ps: I recall now parking was at a premium, best chance, drive around the block several times hoping someone would leave unless you wanted to park a few blocks away. No matter day or evening. Day parking was paid meters on the street only, if you wanted to be anywhere near close.

  240. Dan you and Mariette, keep on sharing! You guys have priceless history in your minds!

    I love ALL your and Sinar’s and Mat Pesch’s and Mike RInder’s and Jackson’s, and Jim Logan’s, and Marty’s and Lana’s and and and Amy’s book, and this is some really different time, isn’t it?

    Who’d have imagined former IG Ethics would have a site with this amount of truth on it!

    This is what I envisioned when I was doing Grade 0 processing, and thinking what the EP of Flow 3 Grade 0 truly meant!

    Thank goodness for the internet!

  241. I agree with you Oracle. It’s been a couple of dozen year since I saw Lynn but I saw him do huge games that expanded the church. With that being more than 2 decades ago and it being more than 2 decades since I’ve had any data regarding Lynn or Judy Irons, even with this huge period of omitted data I have, I’d still place my bet that both Lynn and Judy did not receive the help and exchange from DM’s church that they deserved.

    However if Lynn shows up at Marty or Mike’s door with a camera on his head, I’ll change my mind. But Captain Bob postings won’t change my mind about anything.

  242. I was just thinking that if parishioners still had $250K, the IAS or Idle Org campaigns would have swooped in and scooped it up long ago. The parishioners must have been cleaned out right down to the pennies in the cracks of the sofa. Parishioners can barely afford a TWTH booklet. Marty criticized Miscavige for not spending IAS money to attract new public… Would DM let go of a sliver of his billion to try to make Marty wrong?

  243. Well that makes sense – I stand corrected.

  244. Well that makes sense – at least it’s plausible… I stand corrected.

  245. Beautifull wordsmithing Mike!

  246. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :))))

  247. I’d film it, standing if I had to.

  248. yes, that is true. the line being fed is also with the release of OT9/10, we need orgs manned up and looking good for the flood of people that will come in. And the why for ideal orgs in addition was the line fed was also that when OT8 was released the Berlin wall came down. It’s the theta – entheta line being fed. This is being fed to staff and current OT’s. And the staff and current members believe it. But in actuality, it’s more than likely the indie field that is creating the free theta, yet the church is taking credit for it and don’t forget current members do not even know there is an independent movement. Of course, as you know, current members think indie’s are squirrels and SP’s.

  249. nicely said LDW – “The sheer simplicity of building an org by simply learning some LRH tech and applying it with ARC to help others seems to elude these folks.”

    In my opinion, it’s done on purpose. You make things complicated and thus the truth never gets found out.

    You got an ED, HES, OES, PES. First posts to fill with highly trained people that can do everything below them. A four man org. Seems it would be easy to expand as you get one public person in that 4 man org to get some real auditing. And then just continue with four conditions of exchange.

  250. I agree. Lynn’s whole life is not an outpoint. He is though fallen into the trap of DM. Mistakes will happen. I doubt he wants to “BE” ED of Tampa, but he can’t get away or out from it and probably forced into the position one way or the other. He is trapped. And the sad thing, which I do not know, is he my not even know it.

  251. In KSW 1, does “correct tech” include admin tech?

  252. ok. I ain’t arguing with yah. I was just making a point on the hidden comm lines of people not talking and those talking to others does not mean it becomes well know. As everybody is in fear of talking because of fear of ethics actions. So i disagree somewhat.

    Other posters here have noted about Lynn being a poineer. As my reply to you know is on Apr 15 @ 7:00 pm pacific time, so I have read all the posts here noting time frame.

    I will tell you this. Lynn at SF Msn had “Big Think”. He wanted to turn the SF Msn into a celebrity center for San Francisco. The money was rolling in, staff were paid well, everything was going well. PC’s were doing well. Then refunds/repayments hit the scene, and staff started to leave. It went downhill rapidly. My personal observation was LRH in PL’s was not being applied. Tech wise I do not know. That is all I know regarding that scene. So the goal of becoming a CC went by the boards. Thus the mission ended for all purposes. It has never recovered.

    Lynn left, then the Steiners took over in the middle of the decline and RR’s. It never recovered. All I know is LRH HCO Pl’s never really applied by the exec’s. I do not know about the tech end at the time. Mind you many staff were clear and above when Lynn ran the mission. But know were hatted nor trained HCO Pl’s.

    Lynn was a big think guy and attracted like minded people. Now he is ED of Tampa, he is suppressed, and that is the bottom line. In my opinion.

  253. When a subject comes entirely from one living Source, a strict line-of-command model helps everyone stay in sync with the latest developments. When Source goes off the lines, those top-down command channels become a weakness that can be exploited by a parasite. After Source has moved on, a very different structure is needed so that those who “get it” can stabilize the organization against those who strive to divert it to their own ends.

  254. Thanks!

  255. And I will tell, when that group was on purpose of turning into a CC, it was a lot of fun, it was unbelievable. It was truely a true group. And I wanted to be there, everybody was winning big time.

  256. Thank you very much for explaining.

  257. Radical Corporate Scientology

  258. “Lynn Irons is a victim of Scientology”

    Right. As are all of us here posting. But not Scientology. Victim of DM leader of Scientology. How does one know this as I state? Simple read Ideal Org’s PL or Pl on only two memberships per Debbie Cook facebook email of 1-1-2012.

  259. Another update on the Universe Corp…..

    A couple of years ago, 2008 or 2009, the Tech Sec TpaD needed to attested to Clear and needed to route to FSO to attest and do his CCRD. See Tps D lost its privelages to the CCRD and Sunshine Rdn materials (yes, the MODEL Idle Org could not deliver the CCRD).

    Well, for all of US who are familiar with the LRH ED on the Birthday Game and still want to give LRH a gift (not the little one) know, the Org is required to get their staff up THROUGH Clear. THEN the Universe Corp will get them up the OT Levels.

    So the Tech Sec arrives at FSO to do his CCRD…. OOOOPS! He was told he had to pay for it, as he hadn’t attested to Clear, so he couldn’t attest on a Staff Invoice, because the Universe Corp only takes those who are Clear, already.

    Round and round you go!!!

    Well, I am sure a couple of lightening bolt orders from CMO CL, with phone calls from the ED and others eventually “sorted it out and got it handled” and adjusted realities, etc, etc,. Never heard the end of it. He doesn’t speak to me anymore.

    “….presure and time…”

  260. Mike relative to the comments on the $250k “given” below. When I first came to CWin the late 80s many of my upper Bridge friends were affluent. You know nice homes ect. In PT I can only naame one who still is. The rest have degressed near to near poverty due to “donos”

  261. Wow, Thanks for the update. It sounds like you have had some adventures too! Maybe one thing a lot of us have in common, is having been in ideals scenes and experienced them. Knowing better what a bad situation looks like. I think there is some outpoint in Sea Org running Mission staff. I can see how they came to run the class lV Orgs, but not the missions. But this was a situation many mission staff had to cope with.
    It could have contributed as well . Stat pushes, unreal orders, and finance police made for disaster. When you really think about it, you should not give someone an order unless they are in a danger condition and you have to bypass them.

  262. I agree. I don’t know how he came to land in that situation but there must be a great story behind it. Backed by CMO staff too is highly unusual. That is a signal of mistrust and/or desperation. As whimsical as DM operates he may have Lynn on special project payroll. Loaning out Sea Org Staff as personal assistants. This is a mystery. We are probably missing withholds by discussing it here.

  263. Well said.

  264. That is so wrong. Indicative of the bureaucratic system the Church has become. It is easier to get a drivers license at DMV in Manahattan than it is to get a clear attest through lines in the Church.

  265. Tory Christman

    Just curious—but we were told out here (LA) that “Orange County Org” was the first Org to make “St Hill Size” and get the “Universe Corp” (Which was supposed to audit…give counseling…for all of the staff, for lurkers who don’t know what that was for). So this is diff than Tampa. Can you fill me in on that, just FTR? Was their an East Coast St Hill Size and a West Coast? (Shakes head). Argh.

    Also…I remember the days when Yvonne Jentzsch (Creator of Celebrity Center back in the 70’s) Said “Mexico will be the first Cleared Country”?
    I guess those days for C of $ came, and left, eh? They seem to have ZERO attention on any tech at all, except the darker stuff.
    Best to all, Tory/Magoo

  266. Tory Christman

    PS This really goes to either Marty or Mike…thanks to you both for this.

  267. no problem for the update. Adventures – yes, and I agreed to it when I read Dianetics as have others, terra incognito (sp?) and it kind of pisses me off now finding out the truth from you inside guys serving in the sea org and posting here your experiences. Me on the outside most of my experiences but a one week experience on the inside and seeing SO in black jumpers I said I’m out of here and left. And living for that week with a bunch of others like me, new recruits, several in room sleeping, crap food, and just quickly seeing the whole scene, I said this ain’t for me. So I blew, and if the SO declares me, fine, I can do A-E. Those were my thoughts at the time.

    But now, you stat this Oracle – ” I think there is some outpoint in Sea Org running Mission staff. I can see how they came to run the class lV Orgs, but not the missions.”

    I don’t understand that statement by you at all. With my limited training of the tech and admin PL’s, although I have read a lot. My understanding, my personal overall view is that the SO is there to get ethics in, not run things or run each org or mission. But to just help them apply conditions to their individual scene. And SO Missions are sent into orgs or missions to help them get the tech of admin and HCOB’s applied so as to get in more pc’s and auditors in training via co-audits.

    But, reading the stories by you ex-SO guys, why it is so unbelievable how the church is so corrupted now and twisted. Nobody knows what “is” anymore in the official Church of Scientology. And listening to a lot of the videos at village voice, and elsewhere. Whistle blowers which are ex staff, et al. My conclusion is The official Church is crazy. And my conclusion is the indie field is not crazy.

    I am glad we are having this conversation.

  268. Ingrid,
    since you were around the mission in SF , did you know a kid named Vadeem (my spelling is phonetic). He actually worked at the Org, but he worked with the mission alot.

  269. Hi Lizabeth,
    thanks for the info…I am a curious cat and love to hear about the adventures of others. There was a sup who worked at AOLA who is also named Lizabeth. I was just checking as you never know who you will find here! What is a Traumatic Incident Reduction Counselor? That sounds like a cool thing.

  270. RD, I hear ya. I got in Scientology for spiritual reasons…for OT reasons, not to cure shyness or to cure a physical body thing. DM has ruined the organization, but, I know that there are 7’s and 8’s who are not capable of being out of the body at will, nor can they fly all over the universe..and this is PRIOR to DM and after DM.

    I know that people (usually OT’s) want to say that it’s just about taking responsibility and cause over a zone etc, but Ron talked a talk regarding OT (just do the OT doc course), yet, the truth is that beings get what they get out of auditing, and OT abilities are not part and parcel with the levels and even ‘back in the day’ there was no ‘ability gained’ that was reliable regarding the OT levels. The proof is in the pudding.

  271. Jewel, Lizabeth came from the sky, otherwise it’s D. Do you remember the Metapsychology group, with Mayo and others back in the 80’s? TIR evolved from that time period. It is used by few psych counselors and my hubby was under an umbrella therefore a legal counsellor. One has to join and be trained and I believe it’s more complicated today. It suited our needs in the 90’s +. Our psych guy who was hubby’s pc is retired now, tho still attends conferences of sort.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s