New York Times

The New York Times – Sunday edition – has published an informative account of Christie King Collbran’s parting with the church and turning Indpendent (she is the first Independent, by the by). Don’t miss the multi-media pieces that go with the main story, particularly the video of Christie.

223 responses to “New York Times

  1. Isn’t the headline kinda misleading? Christie King Collbran broke with the C of M but still considers herself a Scientologist, right?

  2. I suspect it is NOT a yawn, and indeed IS an issue to Ms. Sigal, and to many other scientologists who continue to support the church. The affected boredom aside, I’ll bet money that even that brief interview by the N. Y. Times reported set wheels in motion in her head. All the outpoints she’s seen, all times she’s felt something isn’t right…

    The number of members who are leaving the church is making an impression on those who are not. Staff and public alike are noticing, and they are noticing that many of those getting the hell out are their families and their OL’s. They are affected by it, let me tell you, in the same way an injured person sees their own blood spilling out and has no way to staunch it.

    I am so glad to see the Times putting this all out there again, and the links to the St. Pete Times articles and videos make a double-whammy.

  3. Christie, Marty, Mike, Paul, Marc,

    Thank you for your contributions to this piece in the NYTimes. Bit by bit, chip by chip — all will be revealed.

    Also love the NYTimes link to your blog, Marty!

    Just Me.

  4. Christie well done! Great job and great video and pictures. As for Joanie in Clearwater oh well keep on yawning! Some people will just keep drinking the cool-aid.


  5. Three pertinent points in this piece, all from the mouth of Tommy Boy.

    1. “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.”

    Really??? Forget the ignorance and arrogance of the statement for a moment, let’s look at how there are “millions” of Scientologists in the world. If they were all members of the church, then why could Tommy not provide a number?

    So here we have anyone who’s ever had a cup of coffee at an Org counted as a Scientologist when its suits Miscvaige, but when lifelong members disagree with his leadership, they can’t be Scientologists because they’re not in a church that claims millions of people who aren’t Scientologists as members.

    2. “We have never violated that trust (the confidentiality of auditing folders),” Mr. Davis said. “We never have. We never will.”

    This is an outright lie. And a big one.

    3. “This is a representation of our success,” said the church’s spokesman, Tommy Davis, showing off the building’s cavernous atrium, still to be clad in Italian marble, at the climax of a daylong tour of the church’s Clearwater empire. “This is a result of our expansion. It’s pinch-yourself material.”

    Yeah, we’re pinching ourselves alright. Hopefully we’ll awake to find it was all a bad dream.

  6. Wow, her mother would rather never see her own grandchild and consider her own daughter to be a “snake in the grass” now THAT”S BRAINWASHING.

    And, Joanie Sigal, get your head out of your ass.

  7. David from England

    A good article, but a sad one.

    For me, the most telling paragraph was this:
    “This is a representation of our success,” said the church’s spokesman, Tommy Davis, showing off the building’s cavernous atrium, still to be clad in Italian marble, at the climax of a daylong tour of the church’s Clearwater empire. “This is a result of our expansion. It’s pinch-yourself material.”

    Does he realise how bad this sounds coming from a supposedly religious organisation?

  8. Concerned Citizen

    “Mr. Davis said there is no such thing: “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.” ”
    The above is a quote from the article.

    Really MR Davis, people are not free to practice their chosen religion without your sanction?

    Now how about freedom of religion? The cause the Church so loudly champions and has championed? So you have a right to practice your chosen believes but we don’t? Or the universal declaration of human rights, which the Church so fervently supports? Is that no applicable to us? Are Protestants and Lutherans and every other denomination that split from the Catholic Church not entitled to their own interpretation and application of their scriptures? Are you saying independent Scientologist are different than these faiths’ followers in regard to those rights?

  9. Very nicely done Christie.

    Thank you.

  10. I continue to be amazed that almost all the Scientologists I know in CW are still avid supporters of the church and DM. I only know one long-time Scientologist who has seen what’s happening. All the rest are either still on lines or in between services. They all still have their blinders on and are good little soldiers (robots) following “command intention.”

    I”m not sure how to reach these people who are keeping the C of M going, but when I see a few of them come to their senses and confront the truth I will know that DM and his suppressive scam are on their last legs.

    By the way, Christie and all who contributed to this piece — very well done!

  11. “Does he realise how bad this sounds coming from a supposedly religious organisation?”

    No. Tommy doesn’t realize anything. Tommy doesn’t think. Tommy follows “command intention.” Tommy doesn’t realize, he only spouts.

  12. Sadly I think it IS a yawn to Ms. Sigal — most everyone is beneath her, even those OT VIIIs in good standing.

    She’s part of the elite clan and those leaving are not even breathing in her mind.

    BUT — the Times article is fantastic, the links are great, including the link to Marty’s blog AND there are many more people NOT like Ms. Sigal who definitely must be wondering — WHAT????

    In the end — it will be a handful of pretentious snobs standing around wondering why no one wants to talk to them? And why they are so unhappy afterall?


  13. The C of M doesn’t recognize freedom of religion. It only recognizes totalitarianism (at least concerning Scn.).

    Support of the universal declaration of human rights, and all other support of human rights, is for PR purposes only.

  14. Watchful Eyes

    Remember Baghdad Bob from the 2003 Iraq war? He was a pretty entertaining Iraqi military man who’d give press reports that were always false. Always. The sky could be falling in and Baghdad Bob would say everything was great, that they were winning the war.

    When I read this NY Times piece it dawned on me that Tommy Davis is the new Baghdad Bob. This comment about the Colbran’s cracked me up, “And since they’re removed, the church is expanding like never before,” said Mr. Davis.

    Expanding like never before? Good grief! The C of M has it’s own Baghdad Bob. What a riot.

  15. Christie,

    Thank you. We are here for you if there is anything you need. The Physical Universe is a Comm Lag, so do not despair. As people break their agreements with it, they will come to see the truth in your words, and the integrity in your smile.

    Tommy Davis reflects the values of “Miscavolgy” perfectly. He gets his knickers in a twist over beautiful mest. I would say that the Reverse Technology Center has completed its mission of completely submerging Scientology.

    Again, thanks.


  16. Someone SHOULD pinch Tommy.

    Now he is apparently a religious scholar with extensive knowledge of the world’s great faiths and inside skinny that nobody else know. Anyone ever met one of those Catholics he is talking about who has disconnected from their friends and family (even the excommunicated ones?)

    And on the subject of “pinch-me material” its funny, but that massive expansion demonstrated by the marvelous Super Power building must have happened a decade ago as it has looked exactly the same for the last 10 years! So, I suppose the massive expansion that has been going on since all the SP’s left must be evident somewhere else? Probably its available in Tommy’s secret stash of “facts” that only he is aware of….

    At some point Tommy is going to regret his lies. When those things he says are pulled out by media interviewing him in the future. He hasnt experienced that yet apparently. Still a bit green behind the ears I guess…

  17. Thought provoking

    Yet another win for the Independents! Very well done to all who contributed to this – we will be heard! Will you (church supporters) be listening?

    Christie you did a great job and were very believable!

    Joanie, I always thought you were a smart woman…open your eyes and stop being a mouthpiece for those who really tell lies.

    It is this kind of “blinders on” attitude that encourages people to speak out freely. Eventually it will be all too obvious as to who is telling the truth.

    As an OT, can you factually be self determined enough to confront the truth or will you still be wearing your blinders? Will you be one of the those who goes down with a sinking ship screaming…those damn Independents!

  18. One of these days Tommy is going to have to confront the lies. The Road to Truth isn’t paved with alteration of it; buildings are not Scientology or Scientologists. They are buildings.

  19. UnDisturbed

    One very large outpoint: the slide show attached to the NY Times article. Lots of pretty pictures of MEST buildings and rooms, including “Inside the Fort Harrison Hotel, the newly renovated Crystal Ballroom, with 11,000 crystals in the chandelier.” Not one picture of a crowded courseroom, or PCs waiting for session. Should parishioners be happy that their fees bought 11,000 crystals in the chandelier?

    Has the current Church actually forgotten what the valuable final products of Scn are?

  20. One can feel that tipping point getting closer and closer.

  21. Christie you represented the Independents perfectly. You and Marty got in a few excellent quotes which will get parishioners thinking. Great job!

  22. Mike Rinder your quote too was perfect.

  23. Hmmm…

    Must be the new Perception Management Tech (TM) or PM Tech that has replaced the PR Series and Press Policy at the Church which is really probably the reason for all these ostentatious but empty idle orgs.

    If a reporter shows up just show them a bunch of real estate. Which reminds me of the old S&L scam back in the late ’80’s.

    They used to take all these reporters on a junket in Vegas then take them out to some housing development in the middle of the California or Arizona desert, that was never completed and later abandoned. Just to show everyone that the money was being invested in something tangible.

    Anyway, Davis has become a really slick, sleasy flack since his last interview.

    Now he exudes “apparent theta”. A cloying saccharin or more like Aspartame sweetness.

    While on the other hand Christie came off like a real person.

    To me it’s obvious who is out of valence!

    Is it just me or did anyone notice Davis back peddling like a clown on a unicycle regarding disconnection?

  24. AlexMetheny

    Hi Huckelberry,

    I agree with your three points and could add one other:
    1. I agree with what you said.
    2. I would say that they (C of M ) would say they only disclose sec checking data and that is not a breach of confidentiality. I would say in addition to this that if people knew that the church could use this data against them later it would stop the trust rapidly. Also the fact that the sec checking in most cases is out-tech through mixing it with major actions or using it for political or financial purposes not for case gain.
    3. Snooze…. not this again. The buildings are NOT a sign of success.
    4. Tommy says the church uses disconnection like the Jehovas use shunning or excommunication. (something like that) This seems to be going against his public statements that the church does not enforce disconnection. So which is it Tommy?? Does the Church believe and enforce disconnection or doesn’t it??

    It is obvious to me that they do and this is an abberated policy and it needs to stop!


  25. War and Peace

    Very well done to all concerned on the New York Times.

    I wanted to get an idea of the impact of Chrissie’s video and stats on readership and circulation. NOTE, this is the SUNDAY edition

    From Wikipedia ~
    The New York Times is an American daily newspaper founded and continuously published in New York City since 1851. Although it remains both the largest local metropolitan newspaper in the United States as well as third largest overall in the nation behind only The Wall Street Journal and USA Today
    In March 2009, the paper reported a circulation of 1,039,031 copies on weekdays and 1,451,233 copies on Sundays.
    In addition to its New York City headquarters, The Times has 16 news bureaus in New York State, 11 national news bureaus and twenty-six foreign news bureaus.


    The Times has had a strong presence on the Web since 1996, and has been ranked one of the top Web sites. Accessing some articles requires registration, though this can be bypassed in some cases through Times.The website had 555 million pageviews in March 2005.
    The domain attracted at least 146 million visitors annually by 2008 . The Times Web site ranks 59th by number of unique visitors, with over 20 million unique visitors in March 2009 making it the most visited newspaper site with more than twice the number of unique visitors as the next most popular site.

    Also, as of May 2009, produced 22 of the 50 most popular newspaper blogs.
    The Alexa Traffic Stat of internet activity ~~ it is #96 in the world.

  26. AlexMetheny

    Elizabeth you are funny!

  27. The NY Times is the third-largest paper, it continued to have by far the largest Sunday circulation, at 1.4 million as of last October.

    Great video Christie & Thanks all who contributed to the article! Marc will probably sell more of his books.

    Mr. Davis said there is no such thing: “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.” Tommy better smell the roses, wake up quickly and notice all those Indie’s in increasing numbers, we do exist! Then again it’s probably just another lie, the usual tool for mestology PR.

  28. I just read the online article more carefully and noticed at the end, in light gray, a note says the article “… appeared in print on page A1 of the New York edition.”

    Guys, that’s the FRONT PAGE of The New York Times!

    Just Me

  29. Hey, Tommy, for some real “pinch yourself material” download a kindle version of Marc’s book like I just did. You’ll be be black and blue before you finish the first chapter, dear heart.

    Honestly folks, as Marty so clearly attests in his intro to the book, it is a non-stop read.

    Ok. Gotta get back to the book!

  30. We have never violated that trust (the confidentiality of auditing folders),” Mr. Davis said. “We never have. We never will.”

    Please show quote from Tommy in SP Times aledging crimes of certain defectors that could only have come from confidential folders.

    Please show quote from Tommy in print that there is no disconnection and compare it to his current ack of it being no different than Mormons etc.

  31. Compare Tommy’s statement recently in print that the SP Times was the only press carrying the Indie story and needed an investigation to prove (I’m not quite sure what) and the current NY Times and all the spinoffs to come

  32. Tom and friends,

    Thank you for your kind words and for being there for me! Being a part of this amazing group of Independents has made things a lot easier.

    I am actually doing very well and haven’t been happier in a very long time. Leaving the church and sticking to my integrity changed my life and it’s a beautiful world out here on the Independent side of the fence.

    Thanks to all of you for your support and contributions. This is an amazing group to be a part of.

  33. Thanks Boyd. I’m glad it turned out so well actually.

  34. Redneck Thetan

    I wonder if Davis and other people within the church realize how obsessed with the shiny they come off as to many people who grew up within Christianity. I personally was brought up as a fundie Christian and was told that it was a waste to build expensive shrines and buildings when the money could be used in God’s work.

    Yes, the shiny is very impressive, but think about how many services could be lowered in price by the reallocation of MEST funds. Or, even more shocking, if they changed their priority from fundraising to training and auditing, they might develop a church base that reflect the actual gains of the tech they claim to prize.

    Oh, and it’s very ironic that Davis has no problems with selling non-members millions of books a year that teach LRH tech, but then saying that the only way to actually use the tech those books teach is within the walls of their church. That might be why he has precise numbers for book sales but suddenly can’t figure out how many people are actually on course.

  35. War and Peace

    Mike ~

    “Religious scholar with extensive knowledge”

    Sometimes you are a hoot !

    I have sometimes wondered how you reacted to what Tommy Davis is doing after your 20 years experience in handling the media for the Church.

    I am guessing you cringe or flinch at what he trots out.

    I think I could write a computer program that could spit out that kind of random garbage.

  36. Mike,
    If some of the Press are smart, and I think they are, they will contact you to help pull apart Tommy’s specious arguments. I am glad you are no longer playing the game.

  37. Huckleberry

    Good point, Alex, on disconnection, which we all know exists. Even if it’s just the social pressure exerted on CoS members to sever all ties with rebels who dare question the dictatorship of Miscavige.

    A point of clarification, though. It is NOT only Sec Checks which form the basis of the smear campaigns against dissenters.

    I know for a fact that Tommy himself has zero back-off on marching into the HGC and pulling PC folders.

    Interesting, don’t you think, that Nicole Kidman agreed never to speak of Scientology in public?

    I would imagine both Marty and Mike Rinder have direct knowledge of pulling folders as part of intel gathering on “trouble sources”.

    And they both have been victims of it over the past year.

  38. Jbasoon said in the paper’s comments section:

    “not only has Scientology survived the passing of our founder we are bigger, stronger and in a much better position to serve our members and the community at large now that at any time in the past.”

    That’s a lie, the stats don’t show that I’ve confirmed this myself. The stats continue to downtrend. Jbasoon you are covering for an SP destroying my church from within. The truth sits and waits quietly, unmovable.

    You want to talk about whole track affecting OVERTS you delusional punk? You’ve just committed one. You can’t hide from the truth behind your vague maunderings of the safety of a group, the truth will eat you alive it doesn’t care about that. You don’t necessarily cave-in in one lifetime, if there were no comm-lag there would be no suppression. So keep peddling lies at critical moments and see where it gets you. Ignorance is no excuse, the truth doesn’t care about your excuses.

    WE here are the only hope for mankind, standing in between you and total degradation and pain and we have to win so we will. You think it’s just us on the outside? Well it’s not, and a while ago I got a subtle hint of this. That’s right.
    And they think you’re a punk too I’m sure.

    The weaklings won’t win this time I promise you that. This group is the inheritors and preservers of the LRH tech and admin and we’re going to get the show back on the road.

  39. Cowboy Poet

    Tommy Davis = Befogging the obvious with eloquent nonsense.

  40. Mr. Davis is lying again:

    “As for the defectors, Mr. Davis called them “apostates” and said that contrary to their claims of having left the church in protest, they were expelled.”

    Just for the record – Chris Collbran spent more than a year trying to leave the church. His senior at CMO Int, Danielle Bailey, (and OSA terminals including Kirsten Caetano) tried with all her might to handle him to stay. He was not expelled at all! In fact, she had him staying in his own hotel room, getting full time auditing from a Class 9 auditor, Jane Jentzsch, and doing everything in her power to try to get him to change his mind and stay. This went on and on and on despite him wanting to leave and when we were finally reunited I knew that he would never get out, unless we got pregnant because they would just put him on another sec-check, an another one and another one. It was unbelievable.

    I was threatened in writing, with a declare by Danielle, because she thought I was influencing Chris in his decision (even though I was in another country and had done not a thing to influence him at all). She told me she was going to declare me, and his parents and anybody else that got in the way, and that HE WAS GOING TO BE HANDLED TO STAY – no matter what. That was a despatch that she sent to me.

    Chris first originated wanting to leave in August 2005 and didn’t actually get out until October 2006.

    Hmmmmm, this doesn’t sound like an expel to me. He was practically begging to leave the church, until we gave them a reason that they could not ignore.

    And none of the other people (Marty, Mike & Marc) mentioned in the article were kicked out – they all left on their own determinism. And I am so glad that they did!

  41. Ok in retrospect that’s a bit harsh on Jbasoon, all he did was type in a comment on a website. But this definitely applies to Tommy Davis unless he gets his ethics in…

  42. Shane and Chrissie

    You are awesome Christie!!! So happy you are our friend =) xoxo

    Your courage is admirable, big cojones!!! tee hee hee

  43. Boyd, that poster is talking about Square Feet of Mest as in Mestology. That is the stat of Mestology used as a comparison and it’s a better position in terms of empty space.

    It’s probably true that they are ready to serve more people,IF only some showed up, as in “Field of Dreams”.

  44. W&P — I react the same way anyone with double digit IQ and an aversion to KoolAid reacts. Sometimes incredulous, sometimes amused, sometimes speechless and always embarrassed that he pretends to represent Scientology. It may come as no surprise, but those he deals with in the media find him extremely arrogant and condescending. Tommy apparently thinks this is cool, and no doubt gets high-fives from “COB” for showing the SP reporters who is really the superior being. But they are so shortsighted they cannot see the disasters that are brewing — disasters of their own creation. LRH may not have liked the press, but if you listen to how he handled them, he always treated them like people. He was polite and respectful. Tommy just leaves a trail of enemies for Scientology that will someday have to be repaired.

  45. Me too!

  46. Why is the video no longer available! I wanted to watch it. 😦 Sad.

  47. martyrathbun09

    ARCX, I’d like to indicate it was a break in communication and understanding. Go to the left hand margin at the link, scroll down and you can’t miss it.

  48. Thanks guys! 🙂 Friends like you are the very best in the whole wide world.

  49. Aspartame kills.

  50. thx brotha!
    i saw the video but when i tried several times to watch it, it said that it was temporarily unavailable. tired again and saw it.

    (i went to delphi w/ christie! so i am totally tripping out right now.)

    all i can say is good for her.

  51. obviously i meant TRIED! XOXO!

  52. Touche’ Sinar.

  53. My point exactly Fancy.

    Though I don’t think lil’ Tommy has killed any one yet, unless it’s from people dying of laughter when he’s quoted in the press.

    Tommy, if I were you I’d go “deep background” ,”off the record”, “no comment” or stick to the “Glomar response”.

  54. FreeAndClearNow

    The tale of two Tommys:

    1) Davis from a 2008 CNN interview with John Roberts: Roberts asked him about disconnection, asking if it was true that “if you are a member of the Church of Scientology and someone in your family, a friend or spouse is skeptical or critical of the Church of Scientology, you’re supposed to disconnect from that person.”

    Davis answers, “There’s no such thing as disconnection as you’ve characterized it…Scientology actually mandates – it’s really part of the code of being a Scientologist – to respect the religious beliefs of others, so certainly a Scientologist is going to respect their family members’ beliefs…We consider the family to be a building block of any society, so anything that is characterized as disconnection or this kind of thing is just not true. There isn’t any such policy in the Church dictating who you can and cannot be in communication with, it just doesn’t happen.”

    2) Davis in this NY Times article:
    Mr. Davis, the church’s current spokesman, said Scientologists are no different from Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Amish who practice shunning or excommunication.

    “These are common religious tenets,” he said. “The very survival of a religion is contingent on its protecting itself.”

  55. AlexMetheny

    Well said Cowboy!!

  56. exactly.

  57. AlexMetheny

    Hi RJ,

    I noticed the back pedal and mentioned it above. What is the church’s position? Can he get it straight??


  58. Kathy Braceland

    This is AWESOME! You ROCK Christie!!

  59. AlexMetheny

    Ha ha Boyd,

    Don’t get too down on yourself!! You are passionate and we like you that way. Don’t worry, you are amongst friends!!


  60. AlexMetheny

    Tommy Davis sucks!

  61. FreeAndClearNow

    Video of the CNN interview:

  62. Tommy Davis is really scraping. You can actually see the mechanisms going on in his mind trying to pull some logical scripted response out of his hat of fake comm. What a tough job he has trying to cover for an SP. This is all getting so laughable, too bad the consequences aren’t very funny.

  63. Fellow Traveller

    Awesome, Christie!

    You have impinged. You have demonstrated effective cause very well. Just OT.

    A heart full of gratitude to you, mame.

  64. Huckleberry

    Christie, that’s the acid test: Do you feel relieved and are your dynamics moving up?

    It’s not debateable; you either feel relieved and are doing better or you’re not. Trust your knowingness.

    Your family will find the truth in their own way.

    Remember that it took an enormous leap of faith to become a Scientologist in the first place and in many ways it’s a bigger leap of faith to see what the church really has degenerated into under Miscavige. Takes a lot of confront and everyone gets there at their own pace.

  65. NY Times is never a yawn. This is big, no matter what we say about MSM, NY Times has massive coverage and the article is intelligently written.

    This just made my weekend really.
    I should chide myself for feeling a little smug, I don’t even deserve it, haha.

  66. War and Peace


    You did very very well. You came across as honest, incredible, sincere and personable.

    The LRH reference on those who want to leave is that they should depart in 72 hours. But the Church does not get it. One year on route out lines. Whew !

    This has now gone Viral on the Web.
    Drudge Report is carrying it (upper right hand corner)

    These are Drudge Report Stats ~
    26 MILLION hits in the last 24 hours !
    (see lower right hand corner)
    VISITS TO DRUDGE 3/06/10

    026,920,655 IN PAST 24 HOURS
    776,018,311 IN PAST 31 DAYS
    7,962,841,241 IN PAST YEAR

    Good Job Christie.
    Yes, we are your friends.

  67. This is an awesome Very Well Done!

    I have been noticing the absence of any scientology celebrity stories in the supermarket tabloids and the glossy gossip mags. They were all over the death of JT’s son, I would think the abuses within the CoS would be fodder for them.

    Perhaps they have been watching and waiting?

    Is this the “blood in the water” they need to start piling on?

    By the way RJ, you have gone too far this time! I happen to like Aspartame sweetener and consume it every day in my coffe, tea, and soda.

    Now I will get an image of Tommy Davis in my mind every time I use it, for a while anyway!

    But I get what you’re saying about him and couldn’t agree more.

  68. Christie girl VWD! And yeah for the NYTs!
    As for Tommy D – wow! He just continuously lies and is a very poor PR. I would have sent him to the RPF long ago. Like the recent interview with the guy from Australia — he challenged Tommy regarding the e-meter not being proven etc — yet any real Scientologist would have just said well, yeah, hold these cans and would have just shown him right then and there how his thought read on the e-meter and it all would have been recorded right there on camera and would have been fantastic. But Tommy, being the untrained robot that he his, just stuttered, backed down and let it go. Overall his handlings make my stomach turn. And who the hell is he to say who or what people can believe in. You see, right there, he’s in DM;s “I’m God” valence.

  69. I love how Tommy says all these people were booted out and everything is better because they are gone!!! Has anyone actually ever been booted out besides those with an IQ under 100??

    The first time I heard it would be better because the SP was gone I took a mental note. This was in 2001 and things were at rock bottom. I thought to myself okay well 2002 is going to be good because lets be honest it can not get worse. I hate being wrong but 4 straight years I was wrong it got much worse and even though “SP’s” were constantly being booted (leaving on their own accord) out. Nothing was getting better at all!!

    I remember when Dan Koon (whom I respect tremendously) left. Bloomberg said okay everything is going to get “better”!!! Then there was no copy for anything for months!! And I had no one to talk to about sports who didn’t think it was other fish to fry.

    To wrap up, I am not a violent person at all. I have never been in a physical fight (not including my brother) that I can remember. But I have this uncontrollable urge to just punch Tommy in the face!!!


  70. Great job Chris. And for The ultimate Deluded namely Tommy Davis, wake up and smell the coffee if you really believe we need your approval to be scientologists. You are simply a fool.

  71. AGAIN Mr. footbullet in action.

    – Mr. Davis, the church spokesman, said the Collbrans’ exit was not unusual. The Sea Org is a religious order that requires enormous dedication, he said, and leaving any religious order can be a lengthy process. He said the church does require departing staff members to pay freeloader bills and to sign affidavits drawn up by church officials, but he contends that the affidavits never contain confidential information drawn from auditing sessions.

    “We have never violated that trust,” Mr. Davis said. “We never have. We never will.” The church in Johannesburg is thriving now that the Collbrans have left, Mr. Davis said. –

    Before one gets angry at the parrot. The parrot know as Tommy is doing a fine job of being out of touch with reality. Forward that link by email please.

    I found it sad that the couple was divorcing.

  72. That is a truly excellent video, Christie. Not only your contribution, but the NYT produced it very well indeed, and I think it will get seen a lot.

    Poor Tommy. Imagine spending *11 hours* being grilled by NYT reporters, knowing how much you are lying, and trying to hide it.


  73. “If you built it, they will come”

  74. Great interview Christie!

    Don’t get discouraged Tone 41. I can tell you with certainty that from my comm lines with both staff and public in CW that people are waking up. As someone else described it – when you wake up and find your head in a lions mouth, you slowly and quietly pull it out. For a variety of financial and social reasons many CW public who have woken up continue to hold the Kool-Aid glass but they have stopped drinking. The number of “in between services”
    public is huge. The church is resorting to more and more force in an attempt to get public back on service. Comm evs are being called that are
    manned with OOTs, FSM commissions are being witheld, threats are being made, etc. A silent mutiny is growing. I talked to a Flag staff member yesterday who told me there is only ONE public on the metering course. The rest are Flag staff members or OOTs. I could tell you more about the pathetic progress of those attempting to become trained auditors but I’ll save that for its own post.

  75. Mr. Davis, the church’s current spokesman, said Scientologists are no different from Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Amish who practice shunning or excommunication.

    “These are common religious tenets,” he said. “The very survival of a religion is contingent on its protecting itself.”

    Where is the LRH reference for that nonsense ?
    If LRH would ever read that he propably would send this guy out of that universe.

    My God, upper Management doesn’t know anymore what Scientology is. D(evil)M(an) is the pope and Tommy Davis is a Bishop and Flag is Mecca…no, no soon they’ll call it the Vatican of standard Tech.
    But as it is in religion, grant beingness to them, Miscavige is Fighting a holy war and he has his ideas from Allah directly and Tommy Davis will be soon declared to be a saint or perhaps I think he is an angel sent to earth by the assistant of God.
    Sea-Org menbers are monks and nuns and living in monasteries and giving up their life to …….
    Just extrapolate his nonsense for the next 300 years. What you will have there, will have no any more any resemblance of Scientology.
    We had that nonsense for thousands of years and the guys want to start it over again and I tell you for simple minds those kind of nonsense has always been attractive…This is the computation of Pope David the first, and he could win at it in the end if we don’t roll up our sleeves.
    Our motto “We come back”. Pls don’t forget.
    Have a nice day !


  76. Rory Medford

    OH believe me, this is a far cry from a yawn for C of S it is more like holy crap, the sh*t is hitting the fan. Truth Revealed is revealing as we speak and it is quite revealing. Continue to expose the abuse, lies and tyranny that exists TODAY so people like you, me and others are not taken advantage of. The church will take your last penny if you let them and they will do it without remorse or regard for your well being, incredible but true and you call that a church or a brotherhood? Call it whatever you want but its NOT good and YES people are leaving in droves despite the PR spin they put on it.

  77. Yes and I forget in my rant;
    Well done Christie !

  78. Christie, perfect, very authentic, very there, very convincing, – I felt that I get to know you by that statement and I am so pleased to thus meet you! Thank you for taking that strong and couragious stand!

    I am time and again deeply impressed by the calibre of people united on that blog – deeply.
    VML Fidelio

  79. Christie
    Did I forget to mention YOU ROCK?!
    Oh by the way
    I love your spirit. Go girl!

  80. Nathan Baca did it to Tommy re his denial of OTIII material. 😉

  81. I know Mike is following other media hits more closely with more competence. But by just cruising around this morning, I’m seeing the story has been picked up by:

    The Spectator
    Herald Tribune
    India Times
    Seattle Times
    Austin American Statesman
    Iowa Liberal
    Star Tribune (Minneapolis)
    Google News (front page)
    The Daily Kos

    And, oh yes, the story is now #3 on today’s list of most-read online NYTimes articles.

    Tsunami incoming!

    Just Me

  82. Just got off the phone with a friend in Houston — they picked up this story and ran it in the Houston Chronicle.


    And so it grows — well done again to Christy and all the contributors! I spent part of the morning re-reading the article, watching again the TC video (it has over FIVE MILLION youtube views and over 67,000 unfavorable comments), the slide show which is an appalling display of poor taste etc…. great article!

    Read some of the comments they are priceless!! Love the comments from Catholics going after Tommy boy for his lack of knowledge regarding shunning.

    AND does he even think this is an acceptable thing? Most everyone is appalled by the Mormon, 7th Day etc shunning?

    Perhaps we should start calling it BULLYING — THIS is getting lots of attention these days as more children become tormented by bullying – in schools and online.

    db IS a bully.


  83. Hold on you don’t want to be anybodies jailor I hope. And the RPF practices is Illegal.

    Not even Tommy deserves to be in the RPF besides his mother is Ann Archer after all. Even DM has to kiss ass.

  84. My mother works with the intellectually challenged, tommy’s IQ sadly is above 100 but he is immensly Arrogant and Stupid.

    Forest Gump:

    “Stupid is as Stupid does.”

  85. Christie, impressive!

    This article is communicated so concisely and with no human emotion and reaction. Tommy’s responses are all human emotion and reaction and below 2.0 on the tone scale.

  86. “At some point Tommy is going to regret his lies. When those things he says are pulled out by media interviewing him in the future. He hasnt experienced that yet apparently. Still a bit green behind the ears I guess…”

    Mike, in my opinion, you did a much much better job as the church spokesperson than Tommy Davis is doing now.

    What are they going to do if Tommy blows? DM had the nerve to go on Nightline back in the early 90’s, think he’s got the nerve to go infront of the camera these days?

    He’s a strong tough guy, right?

  87. Wow at 5:00 am 500 visitors on
    At 8:45 am 1500 visitors. America is yet awakening. I bet today it will be highest ever with over 10 000 Visitors.
    This is a Tsunami. Thanks to the Internet the truth can just float freely in space and time and goes around the planet in a second. Perfect dissemination tool !¨!!!!
    Well Done 🙂 Mark, Mike and Christie !!!!
    You got all my support.



  88. 🙂 Thanks so much Kathy. xoxo

  89. David Miscavige seems to think that spending a lot of money is the answer. I remember LRH saying something to the effect that they judge us by our MEST. I guess DM thinks that if he just pretties everything up things will start booming.

    We do live in a somewhat materialist society but even so, spending money will only take you but so far. Pretty things are nice but in my opinion, what people want is something that will improve the quality of their lives in a profound and lasting way.

  90. Fidelio, Thank you. It was really my honor and pleasure to speak out and let the world know the truth. Thank you for being a part of the team!

  91. Sam,
    Thank you! It definitely has something to do with all of the ROCKERS that I have been keeping company with. You all sure make it a lot easier. 🙂 🙂
    Thanks Sam for your enthusiasm – it’s can be felt even over here on the other side of the pond.
    Love, Christie

  92. crashingupwards

    The New York Times is a no-nonsense reputable paper and this article pretty much laid out the facts in an easily readable and understood way. Christie Colbran did a remarkable job, truly. Impressive and ethical by any standard. She held her position flawlessly. A remarkable being.
    Joanie Sigal made some interesting comments. “Its so not news”, says Joanie. In that case why is she still there. I suppose since they are too afraid to leave and too weak to challenge DM, they just have to try to belittle the stories and wish them away. She is a sad case. There are a lot like her, who have gotten their bridge and just want the protests to go away. Selfish is a word which fits many of them. It fit them long ago and it fits them now. They will never be part of the solution. They are too much invested in their own 1st dynamic. But its getting harder and harder for them to plead ingnorance and not look. Be that as it may, the Joanie Sigals out there show just what is the nature of the PR response. And its a weak one, indeed.

  93. VWD, the New York Times and beyond, now. That IS Communication. Salute.
    Hey, does anyone recall when the crystal ballroom was the courseroom?

  94. Great article Christie! I wonder who is yawning now? I am sure I know one person who is not yawning about an article in the New York Times.

    In this century I do not think I have ever met a Mormon, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. who has ever had to disconnect from any friend, business associate, acquaintance or FAMILY member because of their beliefs or disagreements.

    Again Great job Christie, Marty and Mike!


  95. “….I knew that he would never get out, unless we got pregnant because they would just put him on another sec-check, an another one and another one. It was unbelievable.”

    They need to sec-check David Miscavige!

  96. On “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.”

    I’m sure when Tommy said this it was a real “pinch-yourself” moment for Laurie Goodstein. She was probably thinking “Did this idiot really just say that? Insta-inclusion in the article!”

  97. FRONT PAGE is right. I saw the article early this morning at my local newsstand before I even logged on to my computer.

  98. Huckleberry

    Miscavige promised the St Pete Times a November sit down. Well, it’s March … so, no, he can’t confront two reporters, this Big Thetan.

    Tommy, meanwhile, thinks if he raises his voice and mocks anger journalists will cower in fear of him. His schtick is based on antagonism and it’s worn thin, just like that of his idol, Miscavige.

    For the record, no one could ever successfully work that PR job because ultimately, you’re selling David Miscavige, an overt product.

  99. Huckleberry

    Tommy will one day outlive his usefulness to DM, CD, count on it. The Golden Boys come and they go; it’s the paranoid nature of the beast with Miscavige.

  100. Every Starbucks sells the NYT for those who want multiple hard copies.

    Their six bucks for two pounds of mass.

  101. Earth to Tommy….ya still there? Jeeez, this guy can’t even keep his lying straight. Think “Sentient Program” from “The Matrix”. Maybe he should go work for the FBI….oh wait…isn’t he doing that already?

  102. I’m seeing some Indie friends this evening for dinner and a movie. I guess we’ll have lots of new reasons to be enthused! IO

  103. “LRH may not have liked the press, but if you listen to how he handled them, he always treated them like people. He was polite and respectful. Tommy just leaves a trail of enemies for Scientology that will someday have to be repaired.”

    Right again Mike.

    More evidence that the church of scientology is off the rails.

  104. Joanie Sigal, the public Scientologist spokeswoman in the NY Times Article is a very bright, vivacious and talented woman. She is a veritable ball of energy, an extremely hard worker and very caring. And she is brainwashed. And she doesn’t know that she is. And over decades, specific impediments have been installed to prevent her from discovering both her own disabled self-awareness and the techniques that caused it. And she is not unlike thousands of OT public.

    Lay people are appalled that Scientologists are so gullible, suggestible and willing to tolerate unrelenting abuse. They just can’t understand how that could happen to intelligent and creative people. Until you’ve been there, it IS hard to understand.

    If the likes of the Feshbachs, the Jensens, the Zwans, the Chaits, the Baybacks, the Sigals and scores of other talented, intelligent people can be swayed to abandon their critical thinking skills and powers of observation by the techniques employed by the C of S; then you have to credit that there is some powerful, mind-bending stuff in use. Whether that is corrupt Scientology technology, garden-variety Manchurian candidate technology, or an untended result of Scientology auditing and training I can’t say. But something more than stupidity or gullibility or naivety is going on.

  105. Well, Tommy, I hope you realize that an independent can get any service on any continent that he chooses from well qualified auditors with years of experience. So, how does that not qualify them as Scientologists?

    Tommy, did your parents have any kids that lived?

    Still shaking my head in utter disgust at what MestSavage is doing to the legacy of LRH.

    Centurion (plain variety)

  106. You did a slam dunk with that video Christie, I just saw it. Kuddos. You must be my favorit Scientologist at the moment. You where Excellent. You deserve lots of cake and hugs.

  107. Thought provoking


    Thank you for confirming what I had been suspecting. Can’t wait to hear the in depth posting.

  108. Eleanor Gehrig

    I am really proud of my hometown paper. The NYT is considered an authority, and people all over the globe pay close attention to what is written there.

    The one pro-church comment on the Times’ site I read accused Laurie Goodstein of all the crap those still in are indoctrinated to say to fight back against the media. I thought Goodstein’s reporting was extremely balanced, and while Tommy Davis’ outright lies nauseated me, she did her due diligence in the article and in the slide show.

    Jan, I echo your sentiments about religions shunning other members equaling disconnection from a family member. I was raised Christian and confirmed, and this subject was never even broached. It really breaks my heart that the Collbrans are just another church-induced broken-family statistic.

    Glad Marty and Mike and a link to the St. Pete Times piece were included too. I predict a spike in traffic there….


  109. Be sure to make yourself agree
    With all the outpoints that you see.
    If you object in any way,
    You’ll have to see the MAA.

  110. Eleanor Gehrig

    Ha! E, are you a New Yorker? 🙂

  111. “Christie King Collbran’s parting with the church and turning Indpendent”

    Nothing misleading there. And you should be elated that the term Independent has fallen It gives something to grab hold of. Freedom of religion means you are free to practise your belief. No copy right law should prohibit that EVER.

  112. New york times is basically the AP.

  113. “they’re” six bucks. Hard cpoies are good for those trained to avoid the web. Let’s see 2 pounds for 25 thousand members?that’s 50,000 pounds of mass on a good gradient. Just handle the misunderstoods and learn them all!

  114. Jan,

    I know a Jehovah’s Witness who was shunned and couldn’t talk to her family for a year for leaving her religion. I guess you can say atleast they have a time limit!

    Anyway, she was labeled an apostate. Ironically she came into Scientology to get away from such archaic behavior!

  115. Thought provoking

    I just googled the title and the article has truly gone viral!

    Again, Well Done, Christy!

  116. Been There,

    This is so brilliantly put. I have often wondered if there were subliminal messages in the events, promo, etc. Something is really wrong.

  117. Mark Fisher

    “Other Fish to Fry”

    That’s a term I haven’t heard again in the almost 20 years since I left the Sea Org in the real world.

    That term was hobby horsed all the time in the Sea Org and as mentioned, talking about sports on your own time or reading a newspaper, magazine or book was considered “other fish to fry.”

    What a joke.

  118. Lives Well,
    That’s exactly what I was recalling when I looked at the renovations. I recall it was packed on the ballroom floor and on the mezzanine was the Internship, Cramming, Senior CS office and the place was just humming.

    I have many fond memories of the FH Ballroom. Heck, even the day the reporter from the St. Pete Times came up the elevator to the course room and found out it was Scientology.

    The Orders of the Day (OODs) the next day at breakfast had LRH’s comment which was succinct: ‘the cat’s out of the bag’. It was so insouciant and uptone.

  119. Spouting

    Terril made a remark on ESMB about that. The TR’s ?

  120. @Fancy, It is not that black and white

    Aspartame may be a contributor to cancer in certain Individuals just like Smoking.

    What is blackk and white is that Donald Rumpsfeldt leand on the FDA to get it aproved 6 months ahead of schedual because he or his friends owned stock in soft drink companies.

  121. I guess he’s never read the definition of a Scientologist is the Tech Dict.

  122. Has anyone read the old Jewish tale of slingshot boy? History has a way of repeating itself.

    Good on ya Davy Rathburn!

  123. The church in Johannesburg is thriving now that the Collbrans have left, Mr. Davis said

    Are there any Indies in Johannesburg that can document the truth or not truth of that statement? This could be done simply by videoing the front door (with a time stamp) before and after normal course times.

  124. More bad news today that shows how off the rails DM is and how his influence has been incredibly destructive to the good name of Scientology, Scientology celebrities (Cruise, Travolta et al) AND LRH…
    The 30th Annual Golden Raspberry (Razzies) Award “Winners”
    Worst Picture of the Decade: Battlefield Earth
    Nominated for 10 RAZZIES® / “Winner” of 8
    (Including Worst Drama of Our First 25 Yrs)
    Yes, the debacle that is Battlefield Earth is owned primarily by DM (lots of data on different blogs about that)
    And as a note on how PR SHOULD BE DONE. Read the article about how Sandra Bullock showed up to accept her “award” for worst Actress of the year in “All About Steve”. She was a great sport about it and basically handled it in “games” and I’m sure everybody loves her all the more for it.
    Tommy…You’re Fired!
    Mike: we need you! You were the best ever!

  125. Been There,

    I believe it is the dedication to a cause that makes you look in one direction, and never see the rest. And after that, the threat of one’s eternity being at stake, shuts the door on one’s own observations.


  126. ***************ATTENTION*********
    Anyone who has the opportunity to be interviewed by media where ANYTHING Tommy said is quoted please have a copy of the above “The tale of two Tommys:” that you can hand them as a reference for their story.

  127. Gaiagnostic

    Fresh evidence implicating the Church of Scientology in the mistreatment and exploitation of some of its most loyal adherents will be aired on Four Corners tonight.

  128. I was so expecting the St. Pete Times to run a front page article today. When I brought in my Sunday edition I actually had a small loss.

    I was thinking it would have been a wonderful present for LRH on the eve of his birthday.

    Around noon I got on line to learn my dear friend Christie is on the front page of the NY TIMES…..boy did I shoot up tone. Then I read the article….higher and higher up I went.

    Then I watch the video………….where is planet earth….I am so exterior!!!!

    Christie you have given LRH a huge birthday present.

    VWD………this is so not news….Joanie Sigal is so not in present time…hard to be in PT when one has their head up their ass….to quote Elizabeth

    Great job Christie.

  129. The “real runaway train with no brakes”!!! 🙂

  130. No, but not into censoring my immediate thoughts so I guess I could be a New Yorker!! lol

  131. If the church does SO MUCH BETTER and just simply TAKES OFF like a rocket when the disaffected person finally leaves, then why do they do everything they can to keep the person including hiring PI’s, showing up at relatives houses begging, lying, extorting until they have to finally concede loss either through attrition or because the authorities are now protecting the person?

    Doing so much better after the person left?

    That’s like a flea saying, “Once I was forcibly removed from my host’s body and could no longer suck the life giving blood from it’s veins, I was doing so much better.”

  132. Personally I love Tommy Davis!
    You gotta admire what his bumbling incompetence is doing for the cause.
    I can just envision his next interview:
    Reporter: “Tommy what is your response in the face of overwhelming evidence of violence, abortions, slave labor, embezzlement, greed and terrorism tactics the Church is involved in?”
    Tommy: “Ummmm. Did I neglect to mention the pure egyptian hand-crafted porcelain toilets and wash-hand basins in the lavatories? The ones with the gold plated flush chains?”

  133. Christie, WOW! Ole Sarge has a loss for words?!

  134. Fellow Traveller

    Christie —

    Yo gal — you do not rock. That is way toooo mesty. There must be a different word to describe what you have created. Probably an eastern one. Anyway, the Theta you have just injected into the current games is awe inspiring. Theta – Mest theory is at play. I did not recogize it at first, but not only is your analysis of the CoM spot on, your support, affinity, understanding of the philosopy of Scn so good, it bests anything I recall from the WIS book and any associated videos. They are very different things.

    With that theta in the grander 4th dynamic, I am all emotional today. A good friend of mine has broke free from the formal church spiritually. He authored a wonderful letter to some declaring his freedom, what he is free from, what it means. The timing is just way too coincidental. Thanks to you, Christie. Thanks to those here as well who do do what they do so well. There be some Axiom 10 goin’ on.

  135. Skip Aspartame for good, Valkov, be it with or without Tommy’s image. Would be good for your health in any way! Cheers, Fidelio

  136. David from England

    Read this article aand it explains the apparent contradiction in Tommy’s comments on disconnection.

    ‘Church of Scientology spokesman, Tommy Davis, denies that the church has a policy of disconnection.

    ‘He says that members of the Church are free to maintain contact with relatives who have been expelled, but acknowledges that they would not then be welcome in the Church.

    ‘Mr Davis told Four Corners: “If somebody is expelled from the church, anybody who insists on continuing to be connected to somebody who’s been expelled from the church would be told that as long as they maintain that connection they’re not welcome in the church.” ‘

    So that explains everything. The Church doesn’t have a policy of Disconnection. But if you go against it, you will effectively be Disconnecting yourself.

    Phew – glad that that was sorted out…

  137. Love it! ML Fidelio

  138. Valkov, my brother!

    Good to see you posting here.

    About Nutrasweet aka Aspartame, I suggest a little more research on it:

  139. War and Peace

    Marty and Mike and Eleanor the journalist~~

    Do you think DM will hire “Pullitzer Prize winners”
    and so on to “investigate the journalism” of the NY Times like he did with St. Pete Times ?

    It would be nice to hear opinions…..

  140. Thank you Cat Daddy! You are too kind.

  141. Thanks so much Jack! 🙂 Your comment made me smile from ear to ear.

  142. One the the reason Tommy Davis is allowed to do what it does within the media is because MOM (Anne Archer) is a celebrity. I mean, currently if one look at it, he is doing a lots of mistakes and faux pas doing interviews. However, DM may not have found the solution to get rid of him yet (mom would be very disappointed). He is under pressure by a big SP and lost his own integrity for a while now. How long he will last I’m not sure… but the clock is ticking… and WE will fine out as soon as he is off the media lines (No press release by DM for sure LOL).

  143. Hello to all,
    I just wanted to say to all of you – thank you so much for your encouragement and support. I am very happy that this article turned out so well, and that we are getting the truth out. A true Scientologist is a Scientologist, with or without the approval of a church or a PR spokesman, or the media or their parents, or anybody. I’m so happy to be a part of this group and to have such wonderful friends.
    Love to you all.

  144. Jim,
    I too have fond memories of the ballroom/courseroom, and mezzanine, humming, with theta and purpose, tongues hanging out, beads of sweat on foreheads, and really learning, was the norm when i was there.
    (and not just because we ran the 10 flights of steps to get up there before 9 a.m. roll call because the elevators were too full or not functioning at that moment.)
    I didn’t know the LRH- reporter – OODs story, thanks for sharing that :o) it sums up the atmosphere of the time.

  145. The last person who tried to do that was David Mayo *following LRH orders*. Guess how that turned out ?

  146. Tommy Davis is absolutely nuts. He thinks that an empty building, as long as it has Italian marble, is a sign that the C of S is expanding. Really? I thought only tombstones and toilet seats were made out of Italian marble, but now we can add “Idle Morgues” to the list.

  147. And don’t look on the web today,
    or what an awful price you’ll pay.
    Sec Checks for 100 hours
    until your will for knowledge sours.

  148. Been There — sorry but I have to disagree. The people you cited are all incredibly wealthy. With the exception of the Chaits, they got their wealth over the bodies of their staff and others. Jensens are perhaps different but both are incredibly cold fish.

    Zwan was under investigation for years. Feshbacks are notorious shortsellers and not respected in market circles.

    None are or were SO members (except Jensen who was GO) — all of them are treated AS celebrities due to their donations.

    They are heavily invested in their beingness of UPSTAT CELEBRITY TYPE scientologists — this isn’t going to die easily.

    Those cited just have MORE aberrations in my opinion that feed into the POWER STATUS syndrome that is fed by dms events, his statuses and the buildings.

    We all have some of that — or else we would have left at the first blush of things going awry.

    It’s the human condition that allows dictators to flourish until that dictator’s evil finally brings him down AND those still aligned.

    It’s not going to be pleasant to be any of these “intelligent, talented” people.

    Money cannot buy honor or respect.


  149. The New York Times article is on the Drudge Report too which is a major news link that goes to thousands of people.


  150. Been there,

    I’m a bit more cynical about all of this having crossed paths with the elite deviance of the above mentioned and others who are considered “upstat” within the Church, who actually in many cases support Miscavige and his “friends”.

    Where else would they get their cheap and exploitable labor pool of ex-SO members and staff who work for a pittance, without vacation pay and over time?

    Where else can someone like Bruce Wiseman promote his toxic neo-con political agenda from the position of an “opinion leader”?

    Who else would tolerate the criminality and deceit of some of Scientology’s biggest “contributers” and punish anyone who brings these things up?

    I think by suggesting that these people are merely “brain washed kool-aid drinkers” is over simplifying the scene and supporting the agitprop that these people are “victims” when in fact many of them of willing accomplices in the destruction of the Church.

    My suggestion is that anyone who thinks this should read the HCOPLs ‘Field Ethics’ and ‘Counter-Espionage’.

  151. But that deaf, dumb, and blind boy sure plays a mean pinball.

  152. Hi Matt,

    Yes, I would love to hear more about this!!


  153. Christie that was great!!

    You did a fabulous job. You looked very nice and believable and I’m sure that is because you are!!


  154. RJ — completely agree. Well said.

    NOT to mention — the labor force that CANNOT go to the labor board, workmen’s comp or file an harassment claim.

    These rich scientologists have a fool proof exploitation program for their businesses. And almost none of them give paid vacation time or health insurance.


  155. I realized that this disconnection policy is the achilles heel of the C of M.

    They cannot stop disconnection because then the truth about DM will get out.

    If they promote that they do the disconnect stuff then they are totally shunned by the public and the “wogs”.

    They will not be able to expand if they continue disconnection.

    The media will continue to promote the C of M policy of disconnection and more people will find out about DM.

    This is an example of how the solution becomes the problem for DM. Using disconnection solves hiding his overts and his “solution” will become his eventual downfall.


  156. I rarely hear people talk about how insane it is for confessional data to be able to be splatted all over the media and used to intimidate ex-members.

    After all, what’s a confessional in almost any other Church? That which is not revealed.

    If I’d known that some of what I said in Scn would be splatted on the internet, I’d have put down the cans and gone home. I don’t think most members, not even SO members, realize the long-term consequences of the phrase, “I’m not auditing you.”

    This is even excluding the opportunities for culling session data when you are actually under confessional seal.

    That can be used against you by culling, asking about the same incident in an ethics action or in a sec check later.

  157. The Jensons are not different, WH.
    They fit perfectly with the rest of your examples.

    It’s an uncommon thing to be able to see this in our culture, and especially within the culture of the church, but the wealthy,”upstat” and “very able” as these indivduals are often characterized, do seem to have a particular weakness pertaining to power and prestige that predispose them to manipulation by the likes of dm. As WH has pointed out, it makes them vulnerable to this kind of b.s.

  158. Is there any way to get a guesstimate of how many people saw this article from the differrent outlets?

  159. crashingupwards

    WH- I think you were right to give more perspective to the “upstat” and wealthy scientologists that Been There mentioned. I know none of them except the Jensens and I knew them before they were wealthy. They were quiet and reserved when they were poor. Apparently they havent changed and that is taken as being cold fish. I suppose I could have viewed them as cold fish back then, but they seemed decent enough to me. I think we should be careful not to start bashing people with money who are still connected. For the most part they have the same blinders on that a poor person who is still involved has on. And the fact that many Scientologists who have businesses employ org staff or ex-so staff is natural. Is it exploitation? Should staff just go to wal-mart to work or moonlight. Its all about motive. I am sure there have been scientologists who have or had businesses who have exploited staff. But I do not believe they are in the majority. Its not the WHY and they are not the WHO. We need to stay on target here and not start shaving the heads of collaborators. RJ seems to think more sinister forces are at play here. But I am not so sure. The fact that the Church of Miscavige has deified STATUS and MEST has placed those with the funds into role model positions. Totally without justification on those merits alone. But its a mistake for any of us to group and judge others simply because of their bottom line. And those in that group that let their pride and ego be fueled by cash have even further to go to get their cases sorted out.

  160. this is an interesting video on leaders and followers. Who was the first follower of DM …the Broekers?

  161. Follow what you know is true in your heart and it will turn out for the best in the end.

    It’s more important that you stay loyal to the truth than to others.

  162. Tombstones and toilet seats – LOL. What a hoot!

  163. How about the word Namaste? Loosely translated as “the god in me respects/greets the god in you”.

  164. W&P,

    Perhaps this is the “reaction” to DM’s action of contributing big funds to have Journalists investigate their own. I’m sure that action was not well received with the profession.

  165. Thought Provoking

    Crashing upwards makes a good point. It is real easy to start generalizing about those in the church. I have known the Feshbach’s since I first started in Scientology, when they weren’t so wealthy. I worked for all of them for five years and was always treated with kindness, respect, consideration and was paid well. They became my friends.

    My husband worked in Cindy’s mission and said it was a joy to work with her. She really cared about her staff and public. My experience with Matt is that he ALWAYS has disseminated Scientology at every level because it works. I am guessing that their own bridge delivery has been pretty damn good and I am guessing that some of the weird stuff hasn’t happened to them.

    On the other hand, I agree with Rebel’s article titled “The Enablers”. The truth is, they all are enablers and I think they would be thoroughly disgusted at what they have been enabling if they ever confronted the truth.

    But first, they must be willing to look.

    I am sure that many of you have experienced this with your friends. You tell them what’s going on and show them the sites – some look and some shut the door. The only thing I know to do is to keep communicating about it until they can’t avoid it any more.

    That is why this article is such a win. More people have looked and decided to walk. In some form or another, public are withdrawing their support of the church.

  166. Well put, Cat Daddy!

  167. Thanks for the link, G. The hits keep on coming globally!

    If anyone noticed and watched the Video in the article, these Ozzie journalists were nearly run over by a PI who was tailing them in LA in a black truck. Caught live on videotape!

    Good works, well publicized is one definition of PR.

  168. Then the only truly right solution is for them to get honest and straight so they don’t have to keep lying. That would be a novel idea, no? 🙂

  169. Hi Matt,

    Well, that’s very encouraging. Pleaese tell us more — as much as you can! I’m surprised that a current Flag staff member will talk to you too; that’s interesting.

    Most of the CW public I know have been in Scn forever and are still singing the praises of the Basics, or of spending 100’s of hours on objectives. They’re still on course, either on the Basics or TR’s and Objectives, and still talking about both as if they’re the greatest things ever to have happened in the history of Scn. I keep waiting to hear one little shred of recognition that will give me an opening . . .

  170. lunamoth,

    I respectfully disagree. We have many, manhy staff members at our org who are not wealthy by any stretch who did everything they could to become Patrons with Honors, Meritorious, etc. they are maxed on cards and loans, and it’s because they truly believed they were doing the best thing to help mankind. The story is very convincing. These are staff members with hearts of gold and I suspect these other wealthy people who are giving are caring people as well. What if what Miscavige, et. al was telling them was true? What is they really were helping mankind and keeping all of us from oblivion? What then? Do you really think that they think they are paying for DM’s Acuras and scuba diving trips? I don’t think so. I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

  171. “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.”


    Tommy is doing a great job to Scientology as the PR man of C of M. Foot bullet.

  172. Yes, RJ. Agreed.

    Having known such people as the Jensons before they were wealthy gives you some perspective on that, crashing upwards. But unless you’ve got the other perspective, that of the people most impacted by their business practices and their actions to forward dm’s agenda, you don’t have the whole picture.

    There is something significantly different about how these people operate, the rules they think apply/don’t apply to them, and the collateral damage they are willing to create in order to “flow power to power” and thus protect their own status and power.

    It has always been thus throughout history, and those inside the church are no exception to how this works. One does not create and maintain the kind of status and power they enjoy without stepping on others to achieve it, or breaking rules to keep it.

  173. Bob Johnson

    I had a cognition a few minutes ago while taking a bath in my Italian marble bath tub. The Church of Mestology could be described succinctly as this: “All MEST, no theta”. DM has managed to take anything that had theta in the church. He even wants to use computers and automated kiosks to disseminate Scientology, no need to involve humans. I got into Scientology because it seemed like another person cared about me.

  174. Scientologist still in the Church take note !

    Any SO, Staff or OSA member please BLOW NOW because your enviroment is going to be even more dangerous with King Baboon going in a mercilous rant. To David Miscavige “you pulled it in” baby. I advise you to “wordclear” Karma.

    Teaser from ABC 4 corners

    “Tonight’s program, Scientology: The Ex-Files, focuses on the stories of Australians and Americans who have left the church and are now speaking out. Some are taking legal action against the church.”

    -“Scientology: The Ex-Files” goes to air on Monday 8th March at 8.30pm on ABC1. It is repeated on Tuesday 9th March at 11.35pm. It is also available online.-

  175. I beg to differ Elizabeth.

    Aside from any dark sinister conspiracy that may be in play here the historical fact that buying patronage, purchasing emoluments, partaking of indulgences and other forms of graft have only led down one road and that is toward corruption.

    Also there isn’t a single policy ever written by the Ol’man that supports this false hierarchy of status, probably for the above reason and though I don’t totally agree with Mike that it’s all Miscavige’s fault. I do agree with him that the IAS and its clones have done more to corrupt the Church than any other activity with the exception of totally altering the tech.

  176. AM,

    You could take Tommy’s estimates, it can go any way you want:

    Mr. Davis said, “I couldn’t tell you an exact figure, but it’s certainly, it’s most definitely in the millions in the U.S. and millions abroad.”

  177. Imagine making the front page of the most prestigious newspaper in the world. The Church of Scientology has really arrived. This can be spun for this week’s LRH Birthday Smash with a graphic of number of column inches of press–Straight Up and VERTICAL! Spin it, Tommy, spin it!

  178. Apparently got more than 22,000 today.

  179. Yep, I remember when the courseroom was on teh 10th floor of the FH, in what is now the ballroom. We did Student Hat and Pro TRs there (an earlier version that was called “Tech TR’s). People were packed together like sardines and we had a blast. That was back in ’78 – ’79 and things were good. 🙂

  180. McGwire,
    With another baseball season coming up, there’s going to be a lot more fish to fry! Go, Gigantes!

  181. Someone should point out to Tommy that in 21st century western society, the idea of shunning anyone of any religion for being a “non-believer” would be consdered intolerant, out-of-ARC, illiberal, manipulative, and highly destructive. I guess that’s how he and DM want Scn to be positioned!

  182. Funny back in the days of the the GO the stat used to be “inches or feet of good press”.

    I’ve noticed they’ve become somewhat less selective these days.

  183. Thought Provoking,

    It was very good to hear how well you were treated by the Feshbachs. I heard a story from someone who worked with the Feshbachs for years also, and it was a completely different picture. The person who told me about his experiences with them is still a committed church member. He is also quite well off. He worked with all three Feshbach brothers and from what he told me they sounded bizarre, not particularly competent, and quite unethical and cut-throat. (This, by the way, involved only the three brothers, not the wives.) The person who told us about his experiences is extremely honorable, in my opinion, and would have no reason to alter the truth or to exaggerate. It could be that they changed at some point (as they got more ensconsed in church BS?), as he probably worked with them later than you did.

    These people are certainly enablers. I’m sure they start out with the best of intentions, as we all did. But their good intentions don’t excuse the non confront and the complicity (even if not recognized) with a suuppressive regime.

  184. Tommy (and DM’s) definition of a Scientologist is “a person who worships David Miscavige unconditionally.” It has nothing to do with actual Scientology.

  185. Too bad Tommy and DM won’t get the irony!

  186. Very good point. Attractive mest is fine as long as a good theta/mest ratio is maintained. If the admin/tech ratio is suupposed to be 2:1, then surely the theta/mest ratio shouild be 100:1. In the C of M that ratio is inverted.

  187. flunk! That’s Solid Gold flush chains, for God’s sake!
    Nothing but the best
    for the Church of Mest.

  188. As much as I am filled with happiness and pride at your wonderful interview Christie, I too am filled with sadness for the disconnection you are enduring. I do hope your family sees the light soon. Thank you for speaking out.

  189. FreeAndClearNow

    Very well said.

  190. Theo Sismanides

    To Christie and to all of us!

    First of all a big Thank You to Christie! Girl you made it on the NY Times! This is Insouciance, complete Insouciance! Congradulations!!

    The Independents are on the NY Times! This is a HUGE Win. With the LRH Birthday coming this is our present to Ron!

    We are here unmockable and stronger than ever!

    We are teammates with a spirit of play to make it on the NY Times just in about 1 year after this blog was formed. This is a stellar PR statistic.

    Christie, Marty, Mike you put us on the Map of the World.

    What we do now is going to be watched more and more.

    We just need to do more and connect up with movements all around the world while keeping our ARC high.

    We are on the map!

    We are visible. Our people can talk sense and can gain respect for Scientology.

    Thank you Christie and all for being around and being who you are!

    No better present for LRH on a planet which is going mad every day.

    My humble opinion. Let’s forget DM and move on. Let’s create safe environments for Scientologists.

    Even the NY Times who were hostile to SCN were very respectful with Ms. Collbran and her beliefs.

    Now is the time to show what is Scientology. The world is bleeding. Greece is said to be going bankrupt as the EU have stolen all of our resources giving us money they now claim and shutting down every factory in the country. They made us slaves. But we know how to fight. The World Bankers are at it. LRH has spoken about them in Corfu. DM is not going to ever do anything about them.

    We can do something about it and still be respected because we are not in one place. We are really Fabian. We are Webian. Nobody can touch us as a group. This puts them in effect.

    We just need to move on up a lot Higher now. There are so many competent people here to take on tasks that we could soon be a true Scientology organization.

    The Suppression on this planet has gone too far. It’s time we went ahead on our own.

    Thanks to all of you guys, though I don’t see you in the MEST Universe, in my Universe you are all there and I bet I am part of your’s. It is a true honor to have such Players in the Team.

    Thank you ALL!

  191. Christie King, I believe in you. And I believe in Scientology.

    So do, our friends, in Media.

    They understand, much more then they are granted; in the Bar, over their shoulder, when they look around. They understand, their Bosses are abberated. That there is just something not right.

    They understand, the Dynamics are correct and true, weather LRH said they are or not; The eight Dynamics have been with us a very long time, long before LRH.

    Chris, I am sorry to hear about this arcx between you and Christie, a billion year contract isn’t the same. In reality, there are no years, there are no Contracts. Love isn’t a thing. Pinned down in time and space.
    It’s a now, and a remember then. Remember when… in the end.

    Love is choice. That is all it is.

    I believe in Scientology. (I hate the word, right now, but I understand what it means.) And I don’t have much of a choice in that matter.

    The Sun will always rise, for better or worse.
    And so each day, sets another, closer to a better-day. With time on my side. For I have lots of that…

    Scientology works, that’s a fact.

    Last I looked, the Sun was still very bright again today. Blind my eyes, I still love it. We are shinning in it.

    Dark are the days, who betray their truths.

    Love is a choice.

  192. Yes, no kidding!I’m on the west coast. One of my clients, an attorney, emailed me today to say “hey, great article on the front page of the NY Times!” He happens to know I was in the Sea Org and left several years ago. So yeah, it’s huge and for anyone to say “yawn” clearly shows how thick the blinders have become. (Marty – it’s not the same attorney that was involved in the Patrick v. Marks case – lol)

  193. AlexMetheny

    Hi symbiote,

    Boy Battlefield Earth was a real stinker!

    I just cogged that the star of that movie who played Jettero looks alot like DM. I don’t think that was an accident. I think DM influenced the casting and wanted sublimimaly to get others to think he was the “chosen one” the Jettero Heller of Scientologist.


  194. AlexMetheny

    That would be the solution Elizabeth of a sane person. We are not dealing with a sane person.

    I see another side of DM, as being so irrational that he will end up stopping himself. He is incapable of putting in his own ethics. So, being basically good, he needs to get others to stop him and we will forsure!!


  195. exsolonotsdofp


    You did great. It cost me a lot to blow the Sea Org…but one’s honor is more important than one’s present life. Keep going, you are on the right track. Life is great outside DM’s dictatorship!

    Michel Puzzolante

  196. Equally wonderful! Thanks :))

  197. Pat Broeker was a Rival “keep your friends close but your enemies closer”

  198. Of all it places Howard stern was talking about it in the radio. It did make an impact and will continue.

  199. crashingupwards

    There seems to be a lot of gas still in the tank on this issue of Scientology Businesses and employment of Scientologists. Aside from the obvious distaste we all have for the wealthy purchasing status via the IAS,etc, there is more that can be done when things finally get sorted out.
    As the “control” issue is paramount in many areas of concern; (RPF,disconnection, sec-checks,etc), so it should be extended to Scientology Businesses. WISE was most likely created to extract 10% from the use of the tech, keep out-ethics businesses from giving the Church a black eye in the press and keeping these businesses from exploiting staff. Not necessarily in that order. WISE and Org ethics officers were easily co-opted to give a pass to the wealthy contributors and side with them on any dispute if at all possible. So the points made about exploitation have a basis in the close relationship and control of all aspects of scientologist’s lives by the church. These areas need to be seperated. If a scientologist who has a business employs a scientologist and they have a falling out, whatever the applicale state and federal laws which apply should be followed. It should be off lines with the church. If it comes up it should be in the form of their own counselling and ethics. But no doubt there will always be persons who feel so unjustly treated or so in fear for the repercussions for the church of this or that high profile business that knowledge reports will be written. In that case a copy must be given to the party being reported on and if the ethics officer is requested to help and wants to bring them in(if they are willing) and try to sort it out, that is an option. But they ethics officer in no way, shape or form can order anyone from seeking recourse through the law. I would call it non-binding mediation. Its no different from what many a rabbi, minister or priest have done. But the spiritual and emotional control extended to all areas of a persons life must end. WISE should be no more than a blog and/or directory for referrals, stricly Business to business. A chamber of commerce without teeth, if anything at all. “The work was free, keep it so” LRH

  200. Joe,
    If you guys weren’t frying fish so much, you’d have more ice time and eventually learn to play hockey. It’s time on the cold surface learning basic skills, not in the kitchen frying fish!

  201. Christie Girl !!!!!!!!! My sister Independent!!!!

    You know Tommy and Joanie are just doing their PR thing — to be expected. I suspect they do know that things aren’t right, as well as many, many others who are thinking but afraid to say, “What is WRONG????”

    We know the truth, don’t we? And you’ve taken that courage and let freedom ring.

    You remind me of one of my favorite quotes, by Shakespeare: “To thine own self be true.”

    🙂 🙂 Love you dear one!


    Miscavige has been spotted personally trying to remove every Sunday NY Times from all newspaper
    vending machines in Clearwater and surrounding areas.

    I’m impressed, he usually has his flunkies do these menial jobs. I guess he just couldn’t trust them to get it right.

  203. ..oh ya. Just me Crazy. Love is many things. Dare I blurt it? Including a curse! 😦

  204. Re: real stinker. Even the actors, when acting in the movie, had to wear noseplugs.

    BTW, when I saw the movie, it seemed to me that several familiar scenes were fitted in that must have been based on some survey such as, “What is your favorite scene from a science fiction movie?”

    At that time, I thought it the work of DM, who was head of Author Services and I’m sure, must have had a huge hand in the production.

  205. AlexMetheny

    Hi John Doe,

    I know what you mean. It had a couple “Blade Runner” moments but had a certain incongruity with the rest of the over the top laughing.


  206. Yes! And does anyone remember the rush down the stairs at lunch and dinner? Flat out hauling ass, around and around, down and down! Great times!

  207. Christie, your video presented a rational and sincere person that would make any sane organization proud to claim you as a member. Very pretty, very personable, very honest. You’re a living, breathing advertisement for whatever you choose to represent. You are a recruiter’s dream and a detractor’s nightmare.

    My first job out of college was running a multiplex theater. The first thing I did was to search other businesses in the mall for talent to replace deadbeat staff. I just flat our stole the best teen talent I could find. Within months a company vice president came visiting to figure out why our stats had increased so dramatically. Truth is: talent prevails.

    Were I out recruiting for a business, you would have a job app laid before you with a signing pen hypnotically drifting before your eyes as I explained the advantages of working for us. Talent prevails.

    Much luck.

    Very impressive.

  208. Concerned Citizen

    Putting aside my great affinity for the Hogarth family, I think the guy did great job, much better than Davis, whom I used to admire a lot when he was in his own valance.

    Aside from any other omitted facts, lack of expansion etc.

    And South Africa is as beautiful as ever.

  209. Eleanor Gehrig

    W+P, certainly Marty and Mike could provide more insight into how the teeny master thinks and operates, but I think he would be hard pressed to find some poor journalists to do his bidding at this juncture.

    Sure, there will always be people willing to compromise their integrity for money, but since Mo, Larry and Curly did the St. Pete Times “investigation,” I don’t think posts on job boards for church journalists will be as readily answered this time around. This, at least, is my hope.

    Sinar, I have to believe that the Times piece had been in the works for a while. I could be wrong, but the time line of the news breaking about the stooges doing the investigation of the St. Pete Times and the publication of the 3/6 NYT piece was a bit close.

  210. Theo Sismanides

    LOL Victoria!! That’s so good!!

  211. Beautiful, Antoine!

  212. Concerned Citizen

    Here is a pretty consice list of the practice in various religious traditions.

    One may note the catholic Church has discontinued this practice and it was rare in the last century.

    It does not mention the Mormons, by the way..

    Ok I found these accounts:

    However, in most cases, the practice is much milder than the way it is enforced by the Church of Mestology. (According to the data available on the NET)

    Are there any real experts that can tell us more?

  213. Redneck Thetan

    In the mainstream LDS, leaving the church would generally be cause for disapproval and the exclusion from some family gatherings (for instance, temple weddings are inside a Mormon temple, which is only for Mormons in good standing in the church.) There would also be much consternation that the person who left would be unable to reach the Celestial Kingdom, which Mormons believe is the highest level of heaven. But there would generally be no shunning.

    Only a few religions practice outright shunning. One example is the Amish, and many former Old Order Amish have become Mennonite because it’s not so strict in that belief. Also, some fundamentalist Islamic sects advocate the exclusion (and in many cases, punishment) of people who don’t follow the Islamic Code as strictly as they do.

    There is also the Fundamentalist Church of the Latter Day Saints, which you might remember from the Warren Jeffs arrest and the YFZ Ranch raid in Texas. They are an offshoot of mainstream Mormonism that practices polygamy, and they are infamous for pressuring young women to marry and for breaking contact with family members that don’t obey their Prophet’s teachings. A lot of what’s said about abuses within the Sea Org could be compared to things that happen within the FLDS, and I highly recommend “Escape” by Carolyn Jessup as a book that is eerily like Mark Headley’s.

  214. Redneck Thetan

    Oh, that’s Marc Headley, not Mark. Left my editing hat at work, ugh.

  215. Freetothink

    Christie, you seem so theta how can anyone want to disconnect from you. Thank you for your courage & integrity. Shane made a really good choice 🙂

  216. TheEmperorIsNaked

    …about 21 inches tall and weighing 15 pounds. Fugitive has whiskers…

    Yep, that’s him. Hilarious Victoria.

  217. Christie,

    You are certainly a hug POWERHOUSE and I am sooooooooooo proud to have you in our team. My deepest love to you, Marty, Mike and all of those who stand up for truth and sanity in this world.
    Can’t wait to hear your next interview!!! 🙂

  218. Concerned Citizen

    I agree with Crashing upwards. We don’t have all the data, and are too many variables, including time and experiential track. There too is always the possibility that they have snapped valances.

    Tommy Davis was truly an up stat, great heart of gold. he was one of the finest most sincere people I ever knew, so was Jessica Feshbach look at them now.

    Both have had true and undeniable wins from the tech, so are very dedicated. Somewhere along the line they started committing overts (inevitable) and snapped terminals to one degree or another.

    May be, just may be if they walk out they have a change of environment and come more on to themselves.

    That is what is happening to a lot of us; is it not? Are we not experiencing view point shifts and a fluidity of thinking that allows us in hind sight to see what we were a part of for what it is?

    Let’s UNDRESTAND our fellow Scientologist, trapped as they may be. They are Scientologist for the most part for the same reason you and I are or were. And these guys all are in it at a great cost to themselves. They are under similar pressures and have obviously experienced some win, and are hopping for more.

    In my experience it is hope, hope that there is more to be had, that the promise is true and that their result is worth any hardships. You know the wins are real and are tangible, it was so good, if you can just push through a little more the flow may just reappear.

    They are not perfect but they are people, some with more baggage than others who are trying to do the right thing. They are human beings.

    Just recently ran into a ref, called an old poem.

    There is so much bad in the best of us
    And so much good in the worst of us
    That it ill behooves any of us
    To talk about the rest of us

    LRH HCOPL 13 09 78

    I whole heartedly agree. We all have done things we can and probably are ashamed of
    That is true of virtually every living breathing human being. It is not our purpose to censure and denigrate and criticize, it is our purpose to try and understand and communicate from that understanding tot hose trapped in this farce, so as to enlighten them. Don’t forget they may feel exactly the same way about us. Unlike Tommy Davis, we don’t arrogantly assume anyone not seeing things our way is wrong or bad. Let’s keep that in perspective.

  219. David from England

    A late comment, but I was in London today, and walked past a newsagent in Covent Garden. There it was, Sunday’s edition, for all to see. I almost bought it, then thought, ‘no, I’ve already read the story – best leave it to someone who hasn’t yet…’

    Your story is truly the shot heard around the world.

  220. Maybe they will break away entirely like the Swiss or Helmut’s people. Hogarth looks like he can stand up to David Miscavige

  221. Pingback: Maria Pia Gardini a quanto pare non è sola… 963 persone che combattono faccia a faccia contro Scientology | MondoRaro – Sempre più liberi ed indipendenti

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