Carol Kramer

Carol Kramer is our first End of Endless OT VII completion.

She is an incredible being.  Artistic, yet unbreakable; theta, yet unyielding.

My blood brother Jason Beghe has my eternal admiration for questioning GAT from the get go, and never compromising his reality despite endless ethics, sec checking and eval and inval to get him to introvert and bend. Similarly, Carol drew the line on GAT for OTs and endured twelve years in the wilderness cut off from most friends she made during her adult life.  Yet, when she welcomed me into her Arizona highlands home she was as bright as a lighthouse on alert. No rancor, no motivating, no self-invalididation. Just pure ARCU.

As I returned home flying over the Western Texas flat lands, contemplating the wood we chopped together these words came to mind: the way out is the way up.

Carol and her Rock of Gibraltar David

Hello to all. I am truly not the type of person who tends to talk about herself. I post as “NCT,” short for Navajo Code Talker – a name a very dear friend gave to me. My name is Carol Kramer. I am OT VII, Class IV, OEC, KTL and LOC trained. Most of my training was done in the Bay Area. I left there 6 years ago just to clear my head.

I was originally attracted to the tech in order to truly help people. I spent years on tour for Flag helping enlighten others on the L’s, which for me were truly fantastic. I experienced wonderful auditors and wonderful gains.

I spent years touring with some dedicated SO Members, and headed up a Flag office in the Bay Area. I truly had some great times and met some special people. I held the post of ED at the Baton Rouge Mission when the Mission Holder would go to the FSO or ship for services. I worked for the San Diego and Miami orgs and for field groups. I even did PR for the Church in Washington, DC.

Things changed for me when the GAT came out. I said to myself, “This is truly arbitrary.” Then to hear DM make the statement that the Why had been “the blind leading the blind,” my thought was, “The only blind person here is DM.” Anything I wrote up at the time went unhandled; never a response. I waited and watched. Then I observed changes that were not the sort of thing I got in for. I saw auditors and pcs go into a very dark place. The worst memory of all was seeing my beloved Class XII auditor, Claire Reppen, die. 

I knew this GAT business would not work for me. I remember thinking at the time that GAT was really just a marketing ploy: make a few non-LRH changes, repackage it, call it something new (GAT) and charge for it all over again. Hoping I was wrong about this, in 1998 I decided to try the Solo NOTs Certainty Course. To my horror, what I saw was that LRH’s tech had been thrown out and DM’s squirrel tech ushered in. If that weren’t bad enough, I saw people – from RTC staff all the way down to public – marching in lockstep to this “new brand” of Scientology. I finished the course, but did not go on to do any of the auditing. I quietly made my exit, and once again watched and waited.

Now I come to the level of Solo NOTs itself. Here is what I have observed – what is true for me:  Achieving the results of any auditing level or rundown takes what it takes. Since the arrival of GAT, I have observed a very long runway for those on Solo NOTs. No one has ever produced any LRH reference that states it takes ______ hours to complete the level. According to DM, the level took LRH 1000 hours to complete. Okay, well hey – it may have taken Ron 1000 hours of research and auditing to get through, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to take that long. After all – he was blazing the trail, and we’re using the end result of all his research work! Imagine being told you aren’t Clear because you didn’t audit as many hours of Dianetics as LRH did while trailblazing and refining it over twenty years and then being made to carry on with intensives of NED. I can only go with the datum LRH insisted on: What is true for you is what is true for you – not what someone else tells you is true. People are being run on this never-ending rundown for one purpose: money. This is not the LRH tech I signed up for. For all of you out there who feel stuck on the level, I say be true to yourselves. There is so much of life out here to experience. When the right indication is made, you will see the difference. Your world will open up. You will come to life and live beyond what you could ever imagine while stuck in this cycle.

Hooking up with this group – independent Scientologists – has been an awesome experience for me. I am me again. Marty Rathbun is such a being of character. Seeing his granting of beingness, knowledge of the tech, and genuine caring about mankind completes the true cycle for me.

I truly know that for me not to announce who I am and what I stand for would not be freedom. I’ve realized I couldn’t ever be free without standing up for what I know freedom truly means. Marty, I cannot thank you enough. You are welcome here anytime. What you offer is true Scientology.



170 responses to “Carol Kramer

  1. Carol,

    Thank you very much for your inspiring writing. The more I read the blog, the more I come to understand what has been going on.


  2. crashing upwards

    Wow. Give me whatever she is drinking. She looks like she is ready to burst right out of her skin. Nice. Thats the way its supposed to be.

  3. What a truly wonderful story!

    Carol, I am sure you already know by now that there are many, many Scientologists who are on the way out of Mestsavages home brew tech, and heading for the independent field.

    Your story inspires us all to keep our heads held up very high and maintain our positions as the guardians of LRH’s tech – pure, unaltered and applied as written by LRH.

    Marty is on the vanguard of this exciting new journey to the restoration of the legacy of the tech. You are as well.

    Well done.



    P.S. Marty, you bum, had I known you were in AZ I would have loved to have gotten out of non-e with you. Next time. 🙂

  4. This is really incredible. VWD to Carol! See also what Robert Dam in Denmark has to say about GAT:

  5. I knew there was something wrong with the GAT when in order to learn the entire tone scale, you have to do the whole thing by memorization. There’s even a “patter drill” for this, but the tone scale has no patter. Go figure. Whoever invented this drill is a sadist. GAT must stand for:
    “Glib Arbitrary Training”

  6. Carol,

    This is terrific! Thank you for telling us your real name and connecting it with NCT. I’m looking forward to exchanging with you in conversations here and elsewhere.

    Up, Up, UP!

  7. Carol, If you could look into my heart, you’d
    know your there. Thank you and welcome.

  8. Barney Rubble

    Well Done Carol, so incredible to see you have such a resurgance!

  9. martyrathbun09

    Centurion, I’ll email you in advance next time.

  10. Congratulations

    And I agree with you about GAT OT6 and 7,
    I had the same feeling when I hear DM saying the blind leading the blind, Oh my good something was pretty bad.
    How DM dares to invalidates LRH Tech???
    So for me that was it, but like you I did try OT6 certainty and I realized that this was pure out tech. and after expending 4 intensives in elegibility (sec checks) I walked out the door.

    What is true for you is what is true for you

  11. ☼ ! !

    I need to get my sunglassses on, you are each so radiant. 😎

    Congratulations and hello, Carol! Thank you for sharing your experience and observations with us. Thank you for sharing the triumph of your following the path of your personal integrity.

    Marty, in every picture your spacesuit is dropping decades, you are positively beaming.

    Carol your bright expanse is a joy to behold!

    They aren’t called Indicators for nuthin’ 😉

    WOW!! VVVVVVWD!!!!

    Thank you Carol, David and Marty for lighting up the day and world.

  12. lol crashing upwards, I think she already did! 🙂

  13. Carol,

    Gretchen and I welcome you to the bright new world of going public as an Independent.

    It is an amazing step up even for those of us who considered ourselves independent for years, but were reluctant to speak up and be counted.

    May you experience as many wins as we have enjoyed just by joining the independent community of ex-staff, ex-So, and ex-cult members.

    There is so much that is good in the technology we used once we discover how to use it self-determinedly.

    The future is bright again… 🙂

  14. Carol, I observed many of the exact outpoints you mention.

    This statement by DM was just outrageous: “…the Why had been “the blind leading the blind…”

    If that isn’t pure suppression, let alone bushy tailed squirelly, what is?

    LRH and4 decades of Scientology invalidated in one stab …and using a tacky cliché no less?!

    How about some obnosis? (observing the obvious) Tech has always been Golden, the wins always stellar. Do we see people in orgs and connected to orgs walking around *now *blown out and beaming?

    It is disheartening as I think about the snarled up cases, the cowed and cowered and spun in people. But integrity pulled us and will pull others through.

    My personal opinion: that’s *rage* in DMs eyes, mistaken for dedication.

    DMs hijacking of Scientology has to be the greatest antisocial crime of eons.

    GAT … Go Away Theta, every SPs dream. (After all, it’s so nice when things don’t move) ::shudder:: Not pretty. But I’m not blinking.

    And Carol, thank you, and thank everyone here, and thank you Marty, for ☼BEAMING☼ and being True!!!!

  15. Carol,

    Your story’s and mine are very similar .

    In fact I had the very spooky experience of reading in part my own history written by someone else.


    I myself spent time on the endless qual to ethics treadmill because I had the audacity to question GAT.

    I only asked for one thing and that was a policy specifically canceling or at least modifying the HCOPL ‘Drills Allowed’.

    Of course there isn’t any such thing but it was interesting watching their efforts to Hobson-Jobson various inapplicable references, none of them policy letters to justify their overt.

    Back in the old days we used to call this activity “leading the PC or student to ‘cognition'” that is the “acceptable cognition” the auditor or supervisor wanted their PC or Student to have. A practice that was frowned on by the Ol’man and anyone else who applied standard tech.

    That and the “technique” Miscavige developed known as the “SRA” or Severe Reality Adjustment used on those such as myself who once led to the Koolaid who refuse to drink it.

    In fact I spent most of my time after GAT as an “ethics particle” because I refused to comprimise my reality and sell out my integrity to the bunch of squirrels who seized control of the Scientology Network.

    Like you I refused to “get with the program” and comply with their perverted concept of “command intention”.

    Fortunately there are more of us now than there was before and it seems our numbers are growing daily.

    In truth probably the only stat that is truly “straight up and vertical” is the number of Scientologists who are now “disaffected” with the Organization and its money grubbing crew who are selling out the subject.

    Anyway, welcome Carol from the great state of Arizona!



  16. I just about jumped out of my chair when I saw the name Carol Kramer. I know your name very well though I don’t know if we’ve met but David sure looks familiar. Your name was always conected to something exciting and important and you are well loved by many OTs and OLs in the bay area!

    Going out quietly was exactly what you did. Some time around 2004-2005 I stopped hearing your name and wondered what had happened to you. Now I know that you were just ahead of the pack that knew the fishy breakthroughs really stank.

    I am so glad that you have spoken out. One of the hardest things about going independent is the missing comm line to many beautiful people still in the church. Many of my friends were OLs and having someone of your caliber and influence might just put a chink in the armor of lies and propaganda spewing from the church.

    Welcome again, newly Carol and David! I’m delighted to see you join the independents!

  17. Congrats on your OT7 completion! You look fab and beautiful! (Even without make-up)! Great story about hanging on to your integrity. I too ceased doing training after GAT, it wasn’t what I signed on for either.

    As for Claire Reppen, we hold the midget responsible for her untimely death!#X%&

  18. Carol,

    Great story, it evoked similar feelings on the GAT biz. Those memorization wall drills, originally created by LRH for R3R Standard Dianetics commands where it was essential are way overused and violates Study Tech.

    Welcome to the Independents.

  19. Kramer, you are still my hero. We welcome you to the light side. The dark side is still trying to figure it out! You rock, Girl!!

  20. Welcome Carol. It is so nice to make your acquaintence. I especially wish to validate your perceptions re: GAT. Some people spent 15 years on “Solo Nots” and still “were not done”.
    There are many like that recently “out” and telling their stories. ( is just one example. )

    I had the pleasure of having a conversation with 2 long term, still onlines Miscavologists recently…they were shocked, shocked I tell you, when the opinion was voiced that DM was appearing to supplant LRH as Source, by substituting “New Improved” LRH Basic books with “DM’s Perfect Rendition’s”. They just simply refused to confront ANY evil about the man or his plan. I had to admire the blinders they wore. You, I see, never put them on to begin with. Welcome!

  21. You set a good example Carol!!

    Thanks for your integrity and for being part of this group.


  22. Beautifully said, Carol. Wonderful to “see” you. I just went back through recent posts to see all your comments, and you sure like to tell it like it is. And a Pink Floyd fan as well. My kinda gal!

  23. Carol Kramer

    mini bobi well done to you for walking out the door.

    love Carol

  24. Carol Kramer

    David and Gretchen
    A big thank you.

    Love Carol

  25. Carol Kramer

    Veritas thank you so much for your acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  26. Carol Kramer

    Thank you Barney Rubble.

    Love Carol

  27. Carol Kramer

    Sarge thank you for allowing me into your heart.You are in mine.

    Love Carol

  28. Carol Kramer

    Marta I look forward to exchanging also.Thank you for your acknowledgement.
    Love Carol

  29. Carol Kramer

    Centurion, I appreciate the acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  30. Carol Kramer

    crashing upwards good description, I truly am bursting out of my skin. Thanks for the ack.

    Love Carol

  31. Carol Kramer

    Paolo, It is good to know you are finding out what is true for you. thank you for the acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  32. Watching Eyes

    Wonderful posting and congratulations my dear friend.

    As someone who knows Carol as only a BFF can (that’s Paris Hilton speak for “best friend forever”) I feel compelled to comment on the before & after. Before what, you might ask. Before the auditing she had from Marty. After totally coming out.

    I don’t know how else to put it other than the static electricity is gone; utterly & totally gone and all that’s left is Carol. Oh Dwarf, you’ll hate this but getting correct, on-tech auditing has a way of doing that. Also, not compromising with what you know is true goes a loooong way too.

    I laughed out loud at the comment by crashing upwards, “‘Give me whatever she’s drinking.” That picture really shows it, doesn’t it. It’s a great picture. The girls out there will appreciate this but Carol commented about her hair in the picture (bad hair day) and lack of make-up. I told her that nobody sees that; they’re looking at YOU and love what they see. It gives people hope because they see, once again, that it’s attainable for them too.

    To anyone out there having a hard time, just know that you can change it. Yes you might need a bit of help from Marty for some auditing or maybe some good long comm cycles with a trusted buddy but you get the YOU back in your life. If you’re still holding on to a declare, don’t feel bad about it; either burn it or frame it. A declare from the C of M isn’t a bad thing. Look at it as a right indication; they were telling you that you don’t belong to that group of out-tech squirrels pretending to be on-source. Look at that above picture again. Those are three people who have & know the real tech and are experiencing what it can do.

  33. Redneck Thetan

    Congrats, Carol! I have to say that I don’t think I’ve seen any three people happier than all of you in that picture. You could power a city with those smiles!

  34. Navajo Code Talker,
    You little sweetie, you!
    This woman could eat a bowl of 16 penny nails for breakfast and then be so genuinely smooth and sweet that it just cuts through your heart like butta.
    And fun, fun, fun! Unbridled enthusiam!
    And then there’s David who unassumingly gets it done.
    Here’s one someone sent me the other day that’s made for you and David that should be shared with everyone:


    One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
    He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all.

    “One is Evil – It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

    “The other is Good – It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”

    The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: “Which wolf wins?”

    “The one you feed,” the old Cherokee answered.

  35. Carol Kramer

    Thanks for the Ack. Alex, integrity is truly what it is all about.

    Love Carol

  36. Carol Kramer

    Cowboy Poet, you da man! you are a bright light in my life. You are a true friend. I love you, Kim, Tristan, Dillion, Elizabeth and all the animals. You rock man. Having you as a friend truly helps to complete my life.

    Love Carol

  37. Carol Kramer

    Redneck Thetan, I thank you.

    Love Carol

  38. Carol Kramer

    Watching Eyes, you are my BFF and I love you from the bottom of my heart. We have been through a lot together. You are always there for me and just know I am always there for you.

    Love Carol

  39. Carol Kramer

    Martin, thank you for your welcome.

    Love Carol

  40. Carol Kramer

    Gretchen, darling you be the best!

    Love Carol

  41. Carol Kramer

    Tom, thank you for your ack and I truly get it about your “2 long term still onlines Miscavologists”.

    Just remember at the end of the day you have you to confront. Someday they will get it.

    Love Carol

  42. Carol Kramer

    Sinar, thank you for your welcome.

    Love Carol

  43. Carol Kramer

    Flourish, thank you for the congratulations.
    Good on your perception and holding on to your integrity. I truly got it on holding the midget responsible. In the end it will all come out okay.

    Love Carol

  44. Carol Kramer

    Karen, I truly appreciate and thank you for your acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  45. Carol Kramer

    RJ thank you for your welcome it mean a lot to me.

    Love Carol

  46. Carol Kramer

    Veritas, as long as we can keep on observing we can help each other get through this.

    Love Carol

  47. Carol, welcome. I was flabbergasted by the statement you attribute to DM that LRH took 1,000 hours on Solo NOTs. Where did he say that? Are there other Solo NOTs people out there who have heard the same thing and are operating on that datum? I’d be really interested to know because that’s not what I was told by two people who would know.
    Glad to see you here, Carol. I’ve enjoyed your posts as NCT.

  48. Carol Kramer

    This is a message to whoever slashed Cowboy Poets tire, we are watching you. Get a real life and do something constructive with yourself you little creep!

    Carol kramer

  49. Carol thanks for telling a bit about yourself, its really appreciated.

    Its funny you know, I didn’t get into Scientology until 1999 and as a very green Scientologist, the first thing I was given to watch was the release of the GAT event. I didn’t understand a god damn thing but funnily enough I had the thought of “what was wrong with the old tech”….of course that was handled very quickly and being new I never questioned it further. It was when I got onto the Student Hat that I started to question it simply because of the repetitive of pattering was in direct conflict with the SH tape I was listening to at the time.

    It wasn’t until I discovered Scn-cult and Marty’s blog and friendsoflrh that the real out-tech of Scn today hit me and each time I hear someone ele’s story false data blows from me. I love this site and all the others and everyone who posts.

    I know very little about OT levels etc but I do know the lower levels and the arbitraries that exist there and its interesting you mention “hours” in your story Carol because that is exactly the arbitrary on the Objectives here, its an “everyone must have hundreds of hours on Objectives” and that I believe came straight from David Miscavige

  50. I love your Two Wolves Cowboy Poet, just brilliant

  51. Cowboy Poet,

    That story is going in my “keeper” file! 🙂

  52. Darn feelings got hurt.
    My main gate broke about a day after Marty left and I just noticed my wife’s truck under the breezeway had slashed tires.
    Slashed–absolutely no mistake about it.
    So let me get this straight, Marty gets a locksmith and pizza delivered that he didn’t order…so now I wanna know WHERE THE HELL IS MY PIZZA!?!?!?!?
    It’s Saturday night for cripes sake!
    Shortchanged and shemped is what I got!
    Not even a goddamned chicken wing! You fellas are tighter than two coats of paint…you horsethievin’, card countin’ cheapskates.
    If you don’t bring me over a pizza POSTE HASTE, I’m kicking the dog out of the house tonight an bringing out the “chrome cannon”, loaded for bear.

  53. martyrathbun09

    Cowboy, Big mistake DM. Big…

  54. Carol Kramer

    Lise ,to you a big acknowledgement on your knowingness with regards to the arbitraries. A thetan knows what she/he knows.

    Thanks for the acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  55. Carol Kramer

    Hey Joe thanks for the ack and yes I heard him say that in an announcement about GAT and why we all had more to do on Solo Nots.


  56. Dear Carol, David and Marty,

    Thank you for sharing the truth. You are all so radiant and beautiful, this must be killing the little midget.

    Carol, you are a very special person! 🙂

  57. Redneck Thetan

    I know this kind of action isn’t shocking for OSA, but where is in the tone scale to act like a jilted lover?

    Cowboy, I suspect where you live is like where I come from, where someone who stirs it up is infinitely luckier to be caught by the sheriff than anyone else in the neighborhood, because deputies’ guns are smaller.

  58. ROFLMAO…..

    I Totally Duplicate what you are saying there Cowboy….

    Just say the word and I am locked and loaded, ready to have some fun Arizona style…:)

  59. Cowboy Poet … did I understand this right? Someone broke your gate and lashed your wife’s tires? ? ??!?

  60. Watching Eyes

    Hey Joe – Joe, aka Joe Howard,

    I can’t place who you are but that’s okay.

    As far as your question about the Dwarf saying it took LRH 1000 hours to complete Solo NOTS, I thought I heard it too. Does it matter where he said it? No, not really. I don’t think it was ever about the 1000 hours anyway. What it was really about was the $$$$ and lots of it.

    You just know the Dwarf, aka Mr. Shoe Lifts, had to have figured out how many 6 month checks he could get these poor souls in for and therefore how much money he could get from all the sec checks.

    Do you really think someone who’s made altering the tech into a fine art would relay true data on anything LRH said?

    It had nothing to do with the 1000 hours but everything to do with the money.

    ps. You just know it has to kill Mr. Shoe Lifts when he looks at that picture of Carol, Dave & Marty and is reminded how tall Marty is.

  61. War and Peace

    Carol ~~
    Thanks so much for this great write up and your story.
    GAT caused further destruction to Field Auditors who certs were no longer valid til they redid it all with GAT all at own expense.
    Many did not.

    The current Field auditor quantity is nominal.
    So the Mission Network was demolished and the Field auditors were demolished.

    I knew Claire Reppen as well from a mission I did. I believe she passed while in the RPF.

    It is great that you recall her as a beloved Class XII.

  62. Carol Kramer

    War and Peace, thanks for the ack. I am aware of the destruction GAT created among my friends who were Field Auditors.

    The expense of GAT was also passed on to those already on Solo Nots. My thought was you have got to be kidding me we have to pay for this out tech!

    Claire Reppen is truly a great being and will always remain in my heart.

    Love Carol

  63. Carol Kramer

    Truth, you are welcome. You are pretty special yourself.

    Love Carol

  64. Carol Kramer

    Redneck Thetan well done on the duplication!

    Love Carol

  65. martyrathbun09

    Whoops. Carol’s contact info is
    I have added it to the end of the post too.

  66. Hi Carol,

    How great to meet you! I’ve always enjoyed your posts; they’re very theta. It’s great to have the full name and background behind NCT.

    That’s so well done for observing the truth and refusing to go into agreement with the alter-is and insanity. You saw that the emporer was wearing no clothes and you didn’t invalidate that reality, even while everyone around you insisted that the emporer was wearing royal robes.

    It’s great to be part of such a great group of people who can see for themselves, think for themselves, throw out the arbitraries, and operate on true ARC, the way it’s supposed to be. 🙂

  67. lowprofileforthemoment

    Dear Carol,

    My very sincere and enthusiastic congratulations!

    Well done Marty and well done Carol. Loved your write up and it was very inspirational.
    Thank you for sharing and coming forward and last but not least, being so smart!

  68. Cowboy Poet, let us know if you need a posse. We all need an excuse to get together anyway . . .

  69. Carol, I honestly said to myself “Bad hair day? No makeup? Surely not!” All I remembered was being struck by what a beautiful woman was standing there in between those big guys. I went back for a look and I was right.

    Congratulations on taking another step toward freedom and I hope you gain much joy from having done so.

  70. Wow. Guess it is time for a bit of FDSing. One may find it odd that Solo NOTs is the ONLY auditing action on the Bridge that has a fixed minimum number of hours that must be audited before one can attest to completion to the level.

    Here’s what I know of how this came about: LRH’s folders were collected and gone through and Ray Mithoff, Snr C/S Int and one-time Inspector General for Tech, told me that LRH audited 250 hours on Solo NOTs. So THAT was established as the arbitrary figure that any pre-OT had to audit on the level to be considered to have completed the level. 250 hours is a completely arbitrary figure but since that’s how many hours LRH audited, I guess it is as good as any. But it is still an arbitrary. I doubt the irony will be lost on any Scientologist familiar with the datum that the ultimate aberrative arbitrary is time. And it has been applied to the most extensive of the available OT levels.

    Now, if someone had to audit 1,000 hours minimum, well, that would mean at least 4X the number of trips to Flag for 6 month checks and lord knows how many additional intensives to repair the feelings of overrun, despair and frustration. All of which means more Advanced Tech VSD, which is the stat that RTC bases its weekly condition on . . . not to mention COB’s post bonuses.

    Getting back to that 250 hour figure, again, that is strictly an arbitrary. How many pre-OTs actually completed the level at 200 hours or 150 but were forced to audit many, many more hours on . . . . what?! I can only imagine what that might do to a case. But LRH audited 250 hours, so YOU have to audit 250 hours before you can even consider being complete. That was LRH’s case reality. Yours might be different and most assuredly is. Every other level has a specific attainment that is expressed as a change of condition. None contain the additional datum of a specific number of hours.

    Now , whatever confusion or frustration or disgust or dismay you’re experiencing reading this, multiply it by a factor of 4, courtesy of DM.

    I’d never heard this 1,000 hours false datum until reading your post, Carol, and it stunned me.

    In DM’s own words, “The criminality never ends.”

  71. “Just remember at the end of the day you have you to confront”

    Great words, Carol Kramer!

  72. A well-described term: ‘end of endless OTVII’. Congrats to Carol for completing it!! 🙂 
    Despite using lies and out-tech to keep OTVII’s on that level forever ( making people leaving the level and OTs getting cancers etc)  Mr DM is having a hard time to accomplish his stats of  
    10,000 on solo Nots.

    So pathetic,  after how many years -about 15? and still so little people on OTVII?

    It almost makes the outsiders and the uninformed question, “what is wrong with the tech?” 

    But nothing is wrong with the tech. The tamperer just needs to be dealt with.   

    Well done to Carol for being courageous to walk out! 

    Your post not only inspired me and other OTs ( the people who have walked out and did not waiver in their personal beliefs despite being invalidated and harrassed by church are OT in my eyes) but it has also sent a loud message to DM, “Mess with OTs and U have no idea what kind of riot u will have in your hand!” 

    Also, every post here and in other web sites chip away at the income source of DM.

    The more new public read about the info here and in other independent sites, the more they stay away from the church. 

    Existing Public does not want to give $ to the church endlessly and out-tech will park people off the bridge– there will always be that one straw that broke the camel’s back for somebody. 
    With much decreased donations, DM’s schemes will all collapse. 

    So let’s continue to chip away.


  73. Virgil Samms

    Carol, thanks for being there. You are a bright spot of theta!

    Cowboy, let me know if you need more arty over there.

    ML Virgil

  74. “the way out is the way up”
    sounds to me as a better slogan than “the way out is the way out” now that I see so many nice, caring people in this independent community who are not after destruction, anarchy and nihilismd but after going up without “having to drive stats up” as their sole intention “for the sake of planetary salvation”.

  75. Theo Sismanides

    Carol, thank you very much for standing up! You do a great service to the world by stepping on the other side. The GAT is a suppressive tech and was another big indicator of who DM is. Well done on not agreeing with it.

    Here from Greece what I can see happening is that the Americans are standing up. I hear Arizona, Texas, California and people from other states.

    This is most interesting since it was not like that some years ago. Now it’s all coming back to us and with the Americans standing up it’s like in World War II. One of these days we are going to have our D Day. LOL

    It’s easier now for all of us to keep our attention there since there are so many points around the globe and this fire cannot be put out easily.

    We are gathering up from all places of the planet but most importantly now that the Americans are standing up this will make a difference. That was missing before, it was just Europe and Russia mostly with the Freezone. It’s intersting to see how this parallels World War II. There are so many resources in the U.S. that it is inevitable that the fall of DM is going to come from there. He is like a Hitler, I am sorry to say, a dictator, who has sat in the helm of Scientology and has managed to turn it into a blackness.

    D Day is coming!! The world will be free if we act together and under some lightness of organization.

    Thanks again.

  76. The more I look at this, the more I realise how huge this is. There have been so many stalled cases on GAT OT7, and now we have this incredible completion, sorted, just like that! Marty Rathburn, Texas Ranger, delivering standard tech! 🙂

    Pretty soon, it is going to be well known that if you want Standard LRH Tech, the place to go is – the Independants!

    There’s just no beating this kind of case gain, expansion and theta, seen here in this story and pictures. This is the real thing, the true product, this is standard tech Scientology.

    Thanks again, Carol and Marty, this incredible story will be shared far and wide! 🙂

  77. Dear Carol it’s an honor to get to know you and acknoledge your outstanding accomplishment. I’m looking forward to see you post again after completing OT8 if not done already.

  78. Carol,

    Congratulations to you and David on having created such a beautiful life there in Arizona. You both look mahvelous, dahlings! What a wonderful week you’ve just had with Marty.

    And Cowboy Poet, you deserve much more than a pizza! How’s about a box of .357 ammo? I’m so sorry to hear about the tires, but love hearing how you put things in perspective so quickly.

    Very best to you two extremely able people,

    Just Me

  79. BTW, Marty, Carol and David, I have this spectacular blog post photo posted on my fridge for all our friends to see.

    You three are “pure joy personified”!!

    SW Virginia is a brighter place today!

  80. Carol,
    Here it is Sunday morning and I’m gazing out over the river sparkling in the sun, spring is here and the ‘cheeseburger birds’ (cheeeeese-burger, is one of the calls of the Black Capped Chickadee) are scarfing up the sunflower seeds, there’s the Ringnecked Pheasant eating in the grass and the place is alive with new life.

    It all pales in comparison to your beaming faces and words and beyond that the free theta emanating here.

    Wow, what a glorious spring it is!!

    As is my wont, I’m putting up stuff from my recent study, the ‘Admiration’ tapes of the London Spring Lectures of March-Apr 53. GAT drills and the whole machine like auditing they engender miss the entire point of the axiom:

    Robots aren’t auditors. Live beings are and it takes the auditor plus the pc to get a session done.

    The more arbitraries you put on a line, the more vias, the more it is stopped as it MESTifies. DM has apparently a close intimacy with MEST and so with his arbitraries and vias (like the ‘patter’ of a robotic auditor) well, auditing doesn’t occur, no matter how many thousands of hours he arbitrarily deigns necessary.

    Auditing occurs when two live beings engage in postulates and live communication with the modern miracle of Scientology tech. Just look at you guys!

  81. Cowboy Poet,
    I’ve just read about ‘all angels have two faces’ and it seems the truth is out there, two wolves being the Native version.

    Take a being who is all the dynamics, complete responsibility for all efforts and counter-efforts and there is no game. For randomity, give up responsibility for some of the dynamics and you’ve got the potential for ‘opponents’.

    Two wolves, two faces. It’s nice to know the whole story.

  82. Hi Carol-

    I am very happy for your success.

    What struck me most was the TONE of your communication-specifically, the distinct absence of H,E &R. You clearly describe out-points in the current c of s, but you do so with out shame, blame, regret nor revenge. It smacks of someone who is in PT and taking responsability. It is as though you are holding out your hand to others to be mutuallly IN-RUDS with you – as opposed to the opposite. Not a bad party to be invited to….

    Throuout my journey of trying to help, I have come to rely on certain considerations that I have found useful when helping people who are still in the traditional “church”. Two of the most axiomatic (for me) are:
    i) All members of the CofS are actually in a condition of Doubt regarding their support of the organization. And,
    ii)Always use scientology when dealing with scientologists.
    These two tenets have yet to fail me.
    Regarding “i” (Doubt)–The only thing that is missing is the data (for current members) to inform themselves honestly of the actual stats, intentions and activities of the group to which they belong. I firmly believe that current members KNOW something is wrong (we have all heard the natter) but are compelled to deny it.
    As to the “Why” for this compulsion I will leave to the experts–perhaps it is some kind of mental coersion enforced upon them coupled with a fear of confronting being ‘wrong’ about something so central to their lives. Whatever the true reason for this denial, those of us who have gone through this Third Wall of Fire know that it can be a bitter pill to swallow.

    I won’t go into how ii (use scientology when dealing with scientologists) is applicable in any detail right now as this is turning out to be a much longer comment than I anticipated. It’s not hard to figure out my logic for yourself. Suffice it to say that, to be effective, i and ii must go hand and hand….

    The reason I am saying all this is because I want to acknowledge how effective I think you will be (are being) in helping others who are still in the church. Like Geir Isene did earlier, you state the facts clearly and without force. Your comm is inbued with such ARC and U that it makes swallowing that ‘bitter pill’ so much more palatable. How beautiful that you are able to continue on your originally stated purpose to “truly help people.”

    Love and Thanks,

  83. Jim,

    I hear ya. One of the first datums I learned was that “Complexity is proportional to the degree of non-confront.”

    From there is becomes very simple to remove the factors that impede confronting.

    GAT is a serious “complexity” for which there is really no need. Unless you don’t WANT auditors or free beings around….

  84. Carol Kramer

    tone 41, that was so well put and I thank you for your acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  85. Carol Kramer

    Heather , I can only tell you that each moment of everyday becomes bigger and brighter. The way I always knew it should be.

    thank you for your comment.

    Love Carol

  86. Carol Kramer

    lowprofileforthe moment, thank you for taking the time to comment.

    Love Carol

  87. martyrathbun09

    re: JB’s comment, Carol you really impinged. With JB’s hunt and peck this is equivilent of a book. Thanks Doc.

  88. Carol Kramer

    Freetobe, Wow well stated and it is truly time that the OT’s stand up and become the Operating Thetans that they truly are, without compromise.

    Love Carol

  89. Carol Kramer

    Theo you are truly a person of character and integrity and I have always enjoyed your posts.
    You see and you act.

    your acknowledgement means a lot to me. thank you.

    Love Carol

  90. Carol Kramer

    Thank you KB, I believe it is what we all got into Scientology for.

    Love Carol

  91. Carol Kramer

    Gretchen you are so cool and welcome here anytine girlfriend!

    Love Ya

  92. Hunt and peck THIS!

  93. Carol Kramer

    Jason, Wow thanks for posting. This means a lot to me. I watched all the videos with you starring in them and I have got to say you were so right on. I laughed and cried all at the same time. I truly want for all what I gained and know this is possible.

    If I can help you in anyway don’t hesitate to contact me.

    Love Carol

  94. Carol Kramer

    Oh Jason I absolutely loved your video presentation. It truly communicates and I find myself watching it more than once.

    Love Carol

  95. Carol Kramer

    Jim Logan I truly appreciate and love you.

    Thank you for your comments. You nailed it.

    Love Carol

  96. Carol Kramer

    Just Me, Thank you for your ack and indeed it was the best week of my life!

    Love Carol

  97. Carol;

    High 5 for achieving OTVII the old fashion way.

    Welcome to this growing group of keyed out “INDEPENDENTS”.

    Your compelling story will be read by many lurkers and this “truth revealed” information will help many make the decision to leave the teachings of DM and return to the teachings of LRH.

    IMHO this drip, drip of “truth revealed” by many on this and other blogs is turning into a slow moving creek of vital information about the current state of affairs within the Church of Scientology. You know creeks can connect to other creeks and in time they will turn into a river of such force it cannot be stopped.

    No amount of broken gates, slashed tires and hot pizza’s can stop a ragging river.

  98. martyrathbun09

    Jason, It was a compliment. In two years I’ve never received an email that long from you. I’m jealous.

  99. Carol Kramer

    Hey Jack thanks for the high 5 and back at ya.

    It is time those who slash tires and deliver unordered pizza’s and whatever get a real life and start enjoying it, and stop trying to make themselves right!

    Love ya Jack

  100. “I truly know that for me not to announce who I am and what I stand for would not be freedom.”

    Very welcome to the shining side of the force!


    The most interesting thing for me today is how so many people can still believe all this story of “all the SP´s attacking scientology”.

    How decent people like Tom Cruise or John Travolta can have such a signaled degraded being like David Miscavige as his personal friend.

    How can so much people NOT CARE for what happens on Int base and the people in it.

    It seems that this has turn from “the blind leading the blind” to “the DB leading the racket”

    In the near future when all the truth is wide known and David miscavige just a sad memory for Scientology and for human freedom at large…
    What would current followers of C of S say?
    What would be his justification for NOT being able to spot the outnesses in the right time?

    Roberto Sánchez Núñez

  101. Carol Kramer

    Hey Joe thanks for the information and as for me I have NO confusion as criminals will do what criminals do!

    In the end when one’s integrity is in change will occur. It is so about the individual and not about the group think.

    Love ya

  102. you’re my daddy

  103. Thank you Coybow Poët for the whole story of two wolves.

  104. Wow to YOU!
    Thanks a LOT.
    That makes me very happy.

  105. Sorry for the misspelling.

  106. Excellent description.

  107. Well this is an ongoing theme with pittiful OSA members giving the Evil Lepricon his little immature chuckle. This “fair gaming” is something the Old Guard Critics, Ex-Scientologists, Freezone Scientologists, Independent Scientologists, New Critics and Anons have in common as the recipient of. Recently an Anon had his face punched in Melbourne by a Cultie. The leprican does not undrestand that now a days it onley hardens ones resolve. The Lepricon is holding on to his pot of gold and his evil is oozing out making his face into a grim mask.

  108. “I am so glad that you have spoken out. One of the hardest things about going independent is the missing comm line to many beautiful people still in the church. Many of my friends were OLs and having someone of your caliber and influence might just put a chink in the armor of lies and propaganda spewing from the church.”

    Karen said it so well.

    Carol, I remember you so well from my time on staff at the FSO. You were a bright shining star, always so much fun, so honest and sincere. From your picture with David and Marty, I can see that you are still a bright shining star!

    Welcome and thank you for adding your full theta power to ours. We stand tall and be ready to kick some major butt!!

    Love ya,
    Eileen (Haworth) Clark

  109. There is a well written editorial today on the leadership crisis in the Episcopal Church in the Washington Post (Link to non-registration copy on ESMB: which I think is worth reading and reflecting upon. It could just as easily apply to Scientology or Catholicism.

    Top down power structures are crumbling all around us. Hopefully this is a portent of a greater awakening on the part of Mankind. An evolution towards greater heights of civilization.

    In the meantime: “So the ogre that might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. Its our possible failure to retain and practice our technology.” – LRH KSW 1

    Rick on, Indy’s.

  110. Jim Logan,

    I love you. Your posts are so theta, so correct, so as-ising, so aesthetic, so…..(just add any ol’ admiring adjective you want here… 🙂 )

    Thank you again for the magic.


  111. Carol Kramer

    winsmexico, you are certainly a man of integrity and courage. Thank you for your ack.

    I truly believe at the end of the day those who have their integrity in will take a stand. For some I believe it is about losing friends, family whatever. In the morning when they look into the mirror they only have themselves to confront. The confront will come up.

    Love Carol

  112. I was infoed at the time by a reliable source that Claire was RPF’ed for miscalling FN’s. Keeping in my mind that she had audited for years as a highly productive Class 12. I would say more people have been caved in by this misdefinition of an FN by miscaviage, on all four flows, than we can even imagine.

  113. W & P
    Claire was not on the RPF at the time. I had the dubious pleasure of being one of those who was assisting her while she was ill. (not dubious because of her, but because of the reason). Claire is one of the most beautiful beings I’ve had the pleasure of knowing, ever. Her daughter, Chris, painted me a beautiful card and penned one of her lovely poems just for me to say thanks. It is one of my few treasures, because it is so lovely, but mostly because I love Claire.

  114. WoW Carol!!! I open an email I usually delete. I click 1 link, another, end up here and BAM there you are! Did you want to see me? LMAO

    I can’t even tell you the BPC I’ve blown off in just the last few days thanks to this blog and the folks who contribute here. WoW again! My purpose is revitalized. Thank You So Much!

    I am thrilled that YOU ARE (be’s~do’es~haves) =^)

  115. Joe,

    You also also have to include in that 250 hrs the time it took to develop the Rundown.

    All the mistakes that were made before finding the right way to do it, very much similar to R6.

    Also auditing takes as long as takes.

    However, from what I understand Misaudige has also been applying this arbitrary to the lower levels as well such as objectives.

    Yet he is a walking contradiction because now he and his squirrels now claim that all lower grades can be done in a matter of two weeks, if you come to Flag.

  116. Cowboy
    Petty vandalism…where is that on the Tone Scale???
    What sort of person would resort to that?
    Surely not a fine, upstanding, ethical member of the Cof$??? Oh, of course, probably not. That is what money’s for…to pay someone else to do your dirty work….right?
    You have been honored with the outright verification that you are considered to be a very dangerous person. Glad to know you!

  117. Cowboy Poet
    Nice cowboy response to what was done to you.
    That’s what’s called ‘a slap with a white glove’

  118. Watching Eyes

    I was just talking to Carol about my vision. She suggested I post it so here’s what I’d like to see.

    I envision the Int Base (concentration camp) being turned over to the Independents. The barbed wire and extreme fencing will be removed and sold as scrap metal.

    This New Base will be a place where current or ex-staff members can go to get back on their feet. Auditing will be available as will ethics when needed. Medical and dental will be available too.

    Children and grand children will be welcome at the New Base.

    The purpose will be to get these people back on their feet so they can have a life free from the effects of wrong ethics handling, out tech auditing and bodies left untended to. When they’re complete and ready to go back into society they can………..or they can stay and help someone else.

    It’ll be a place of hope and joy. The picture at the top gives you an idea of the tone level.

    That’s my vision. Don’t think it can’t happen.

  119. Carol — congrats in finishing OT VII — great.

    Your name is so familiar to me and yet I can’t place if we’ve ever met. You mentioned taking over as ED of the Baton Rouge Mission when the Mission Holder would go to Flag — was that Peggy Westerman? And do you remember the years?

    My ex and I were pretty good friends of the Westermans and would always visit them either to or from Flag — for years.

    At one time Peggy herself was extremely unhappy with management (don’t remember when exactly I think around 1984 or so) — then came the whole upset with the property … and along came LD who then bought the new space. I would think the Westerman’s would be out; however, reading Rhetts independence declaration it seems not to be the case.

    In any case, just trying to sort out my somewhat mishmashed time track during those rather confused years between 1983 and 1993 when I left the building.

    I echo Jason’s email — you will be and are going to be a great help to those who are still locked in. There is no rancor in your voice.


  120. Scientology Policy Directives


    19820223 SPD 1 – A New Issue Type, Scientology Policy Directives.pdf
    19820502 SPD 4 – HCO PLs & HCOBs, Who Writes Them.pdf
    19820627rb SPD – Understanding Copyright Notices and How to Use Them.pdf
    19820707 SPD 19 – The Integrity of Source.pdf
    19820813 SPD 28 – Suppressive Act, Dealing with a Declared Suppressive Person.pdf
    19820813 SPD 28 – Supressive act – Dealing with a declared suppressive person.pdf
    19820813 SPD 29 – Suppresive Act, Dealing with a Declared Suppressive Person.pdf
    19820826r SPD 31R – Understanding Trademarks and the Use and protection of SCIENTOLOGY and DIANETICS.pdf.pdf
    19820826rc SPD – Understanding trademarks and the use and protection of Scientology and Dianetics.pdf
    19820826rc SPD 31rc – Understanding Trademarks and the Use and Protection of SCIENTOLOGY and DIANETICS.pdf
    19821106 SPD 58 – Scriptures Defined.pdf
    19821208r SPD 59R – Staff moonlighting rules and penalties.pdf
    19821208ra SPD – Staff moonlighting rules and regulations.pdf
    19821208ra SPD Staff moonlighting rules and regulations.pdf
    19840316 SPD 85 – How Trademarks are Used in Speech.pdf
    19850307 SPD 111 – Master US Trademark list Plus Current Notices.pdf
    19850726 SPD 118 – Labelling of Technical and Ethics files.pdf
    19900806 SPD – The Standard Student Points System.pdf
    19901026r SPD – Understanding copyrights and how to use them.pdf
    19940703ii SPD – Compliance with tax regulations, Commingling of org and personal funds.pdf
    19940703iii SPD – Personal loans for the Bridge.pdf
    19951018 SPD – Outside firms and terminals forbidden to operate on org premises, HCO Area Sec’s to enforce.pdf
    19951018r SPD – Outside firms & terminals forbidden to operate on org prermises (color).pdf
    19951018r SPD – Outside firms and terminals forbidden to operate on org premises, HCO Area Sec’s to enforce.pdf
    19951217 SPD – Approval for Use of Outside Professionals.pdf
    19960313i SPD – Return of donations.pdf
    19960313ii SPD – Statements by staff members.pdf
    19970126 SPD – Scientology Policy Directives, Background.pdf
    19970407 SPD – Keeping business disputes off church lines.pdf
    20000822 i SPD – Enrollment Form Lines in Your Org.pdf
    20000822i SPD – Enrollment Form Lines in Your Org.pdf

  121. Dear Carol,

    You look absolutely radiant! Congratulations!! I am so glad you got through the End of Endless OT VII, and are now validated as having the case status you deserve. Your perseverance and stick-to-it-tive-ness is an inspiration to us all!

    I was on OT V at Flag and had numerous out-tech things occur. Now, after reading your story, I am glad that I did not get onto out-tech OT VI and OT VII. Your story has convinced me there was a reason I “stalled” on the Bridge. I also stalled on training when I had to re-do the Student Hat GAT style. I could not understand that after 30 years in Scientology ( that was nine years ago ) I had to repeat things by memory to a wall, especially a course I had already done. I did not realize at the time it was squirrel tech, but stories like yours blow the by-passed charge. I could not understand why I could not get through it, especially when it felt like being in second grade again.

    I knew Claire Reppen and was very saddened by the news of her death, and saddened even more when I saw a photo that said she was in the RPF. She had been an examiner for me at Flag after some great sessions, (before the out-tech), and she was very standard and very validative of my wins.

    I still have a son in Scientology who has disconnected from me, and I am attempting to handle that. It is a very painful situation and I know that you understand.

    Congratulations once again, and you give us hope that we can make it up the Bridge.

    Hope to meet you someday soon,

    Lady Minn

  122. When I first heard about “Golden Age of Tech” in the late 90’s, I could sense that something wasn’t right.

    Where in LRH’s books or lectures does he speak of any “Golden Age of Tech”?

  123. “This above all, to thine own self be true. ” -William Shakespeare

  124. Exactly. GAT, the Golden Arches of McScientology

    Gimmicks Altering Theta

  125. Jason wrote a book?

    Well Jason, congratulations! 🙂

    “I just finished my first book!” ( audience claps )

    “Thank you, thank you. Now, I’m going to read another one!” – Rodney Dangerfield.

  126. JBs post …! So very well perceived and said, a pleasure to read. Truth is always an orienting experience. ∆

  127. Carol Kramer

    Eileen, you also are a bright and shining star and a very dedicated one at that.

    Love ya

  128. Cowboy Poet and others,
    Set up security cameras. They aren’t very expensive, and it would be good to put a few of the church vandals into the court system. That would be a PR nightmare for them because of the continuous denial of “fair game” policy.

  129. Carol Kramer

    Tara, you my friend I will always hold dear to my heart.

    Love you

  130. The new lightening speed grades depend on the pc having done a thorough Purif, Objectives (100’s hours), HRD and ARC SW expanded.

    Purifs are also being judged on how long the PC has been in the sauna.

    Re doing Purif & Objectives is in a “condition” of affluence. Some pc are on their 3rd Objectives run.

  131. Carol Kramer

    Watching Eyes

    I like it and it will happen.

    Love ya

  132. Carol Kramer

    WH, yes Peggy was the Mission Holder at the time. She was finishing her OTVII and then going onto the ship for her OT VIII. Peggy created a wonderful environment for her staff. I was there on and off in the early 90’s. There was always lots of pressure put on that mission by the EUS Managments at the time. I personally just didn’t buy it!

    Let’s just say the time is right when it is right!(that’s my navajo code talk!).

    Thank you for your acknowledgement.

    Love Carol

  133. Carol Kramer

    Cat Daddy wow you have done your homework.

    Love Carol

  134. Carol Kramer

    Lady Minn
    thank you for your kind comments and I look forward to knowing you also.

    Love Carol

  135. Carol Kramer

    Tim H, you got it! good on you.

    Love Carol

  136. Carol Kramer

    Marty and Jason, you two are a hoot. You both certainly know how to throw a party!

    Love ya

  137. Jason,
    I respectfully disagree about the doubt comment for current church members. Many are in enemy, treason, or worse. Doubt would be a step or so up, and apply doubt when you’re in another condition won’t work.

    Much love,

  138. Carol,
    Congrats! Lot of excitement and enthusiasm generated. Some day what you have done will become commonplace, but for now you have set an example of what is possible. You have offered hope.
    Before Roger Bannister broke the four minute mile barrier, many claimed the feat was impossible. Not many years after he did this, several high school milers ran even faster than Bannister. Today, breaking four minute miles are so common as to be completely unremarkable. And that is where we are headed: independents attesting to the upper bridge in vast numbers.

    Much love,

  139. You are welcom Carol K

    My homework has been done by ” the collective” in this case, but I like to share. Anything DM does not like It is my aim to do.

    This material can help with legal cases and refunds.

    Alsoo this 19821106 SPD 58 – Scriptures Defined.pdf is very relevant to Lady Minn

    “Anonymous always delivers”

  140. Carol Kramer

    OnceUponaTime, I appreciate your comments and agree with you, some day it will become commonplace. I believe that will happen more and more each day. “To thine ownself be true”.

    Love Carol

  141. Carol Kramer

    A message to all of you who post here. Whether you are staff, public, whatever you are all so valuable. I just want to acknowledge this group of extrememly Operating Thetans. The world is so much bigger and brighter with all of you contributing.

    I love you all

  142. Fantastic News!! Carol, MKarty and Jason… thumbs up!!

  143. Carol wrote: ” Okay, well hey – it may have taken Ron 1000 hours of research and auditing to get through, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to take that long. After all – he was blazing the trail, and we’re using the end result of all his research work! Imagine being told you aren’t Clear because you didn’t audit as many hours of Dianetics as LRH did while trailblazing and refining it over twenty years and then being made to carry on with intensives of NED.”

    Carol you made me think at what I was told at Flag Nov 2008 by my D of P. You will never attest OT7 if you do not start to sell books… Ah Ah! Was not even matter of hours…

  144. Carol Kramer

    Silvia, Sell books? well there ya go. Perhaps by 2010 it’s when you join staff!

    Love Carol

  145. Wow! Great story. Thanks and welcome Carol! Glad to also know what “NCT” stands for. Have to admit, I tried to figure it out but of course was totally wrong. Things are even brighter now. We have a bigger and greater team and it just keeps growing!
    Shannon – Atlanta Indie

  146. You look suddenly so skinny and your teeth are so white . What are you eating?

  147. Thanks Lise, for the interesting intel.

    Fact is that they are probably don’t have enough auditors so they resort to quickie grades. This is what I suspect.

    Also it wouldn’t matter how many hours of purif and objectives (with the exception of Grade I) since according to the HCOB Case Gain Completing Levels each grade is itself.

  148. Rory Medford


    You are to be commended! Let the games begin, its people like you who gets the ball rolling and leads by example. Many more will follow and thanks for your courage and spot on realization we ALL have done actions in the church that we unnecessary. I had to do my Clear RD twice and it cost me over 25K what a waste and that was what broke the camels back for me.

  149. I stopped in just to look at that photo of you guys again. It makes me soooooo happy! lol WOW. Whoa! Whoa and Wow!

  150. I’m guessing Marty has THETA every day, breakfast of champions.

    Marty you’re so radiant, even the photons on the digital picture are transmitting the Life you are and imbue.

    Ditto for Carol.

  151. Hi Carol “the Glow” Kramer,

    This reminds of being in the Fort Harrison circa 1980, got into the elevator to the 7th floor. I was having a bad time, the elevator stopped on three a lady walled in and by time I got out on the 7th floor I was laughing so hard tears were running down my face, but not a word was ever spoken, just a “glow”.


  152. Cat Daddy,
    “Anything DM does not like It is my aim to do. ”

    I share that sentiment totally.

    Hope you don’t mind my asking, are you in Las Vegas?


  153. Carol Kramer

    Rory thank you . You are to be commended for hanging in there. Its time to make up the damage.

    Love ya Carol

  154. Carol Kramer

    because you are truly welcome!

    Love Carol

  155. Joe,

    Everything you said is true, and whether the number of hours is 250 or 1000, it’s an arbitrary and an “added inapplicable” either way. But here’s something else to consider: Even if someone were to audit 1000 hours on Solo NOTs, if that person were to audit just 20 hours per week, it would take him or her less than one year to audit that 1000 hours. There are people who have spent 15 or 20 years on Solo NOTs! So it’s not just 1000 hours of auditing that’s being enforced. Yikes, how many hours has someone spent on the level who has been on it for 15 years? Some of these people must be overrun to the point of being burnt to a crisp!

    Obviously they do this for money. What do they care if a person is killed by overrun as long as money from the out-tech six-month checks keeps pouring in?

  156. Jason,

    What a sane and articulate comment. Please grace Marty’s place with more posts, and make them as long as possible, hunt and peck or not!

  157. Watching Eyes,

    Beautiful idea! Let’s also postulate the money now controlled by DM made available to fund your theta vision.

  158. Once,

    I would guess that Jason meant those still in the church are *at least* in doubt. I’m sure he would not disagree that some are in a lower condition.

  159. No I do not mind but no I do not, somebody posting here is though. I live in the Netherlands.

    There is an Org in Amsterdam and a CCHR adress and a Narcanon adress here.

  160. How about Confusion?!

  161. Carol Kramer

    SK, you are welcome. You are correct and it will continue to get even bigger and is so needed and wanted. Thanks for your comments.

    Love Carol

  162. lowprofileforthemoment

    Congratulations Carol! Wonderful! Congratulations also to Marty!
    Very inspirational and you ALL are beaming with such theta….it’s rolling off my screen!

  163. Carol, it is so good to meet you!! Thank you for your wonderful message. But I do have a question: How does a person who has been so active “quietly make an exit”? I thought that was impossible!
    I look forward to chatting with you, we have great friends in common.
    Mary Jo

  164. Carol Kramer

    Mary Jo I look forward to chatting with you also please send me your email address. I look forward to chatting with you.

    Love Carol

  165. Ok v…. the “Gilded Age of Technology”

    2. having a pleasing or showy appearance that conceals something of little worth.
    (gilded def’n ref:

  166. Would this be the same Eileen once married to Richard and good friend of Renata?

  167. Indeed, I’m sure that’s exactly where many of them are at.

  168. OMG CAROL is BACK, watch out we’re in for some changes; she is one dynamo thetan. Want things done, she’s the one!

    Carol although we’ve talked on the phone since Marty was there, I want to publicly ack your transformation! Thank You Marty. Actually and a big TY to Cowboy Poet for getting him there. VWD in spades. I look forward to meeting you both; you’re hysterical, and so fitting to be her friends!

    I’ve known Carol since the early 80’s, to say I love her doesn’t adequately give expression to how I feel about her. She is the most truthful person I know, and inspiring, and caring (the epitome of ARC ) and most of all what I’ve missed is her humor, she is FUNNNNY. When we’d meet to talk, have coffee, wine, whatever, by the end of our day I’d be holding my cheeks from the laughter, my mascara was gone from the tears streaming down my face~Oh what fun days ahead.

    I am so grateful for Marty and his deliverance of the 100% technically correct data; LRH is proud it is in such good hands!

  169. Carol Kramer

    Let the Truth be Known, back at ya.

    Love ya

  170. Pingback: Proč se církev bojí internetu | independent beings

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