Second Dynamic

It has come to my attention recently that a couple of people have used good things I’ve said about them in the past to establish trust relationships with others and then severely breached those trusts.  One was a formal auditing relationship. Another started relationships under the pretext of using Scientology to help sort people’s lives out.  In each of those instances the person trusted took advantage of those who trusted them on the 2D. 

A lot of people have asked me to give my blessings for them to start a 2D with someone.  For some time now, I have given the same pat advice to whomever asks.  That is something like this:

The Second Dynamic is one of eight dynamics; it is no more or less important than any other one. The 2D can be very abberative for a number of reasons. One strong reason is the genetic and hormonal urge to forward the species is connected with the 2D.  My advice is that no matter how strong the passion, no matter how strong the “electricity”, you’d best remember that the Second Dynamic is only one of eight dynamics. If you are so hardwired to the body that the second is all that seems to matter, then you ought not be making decisions on the second dynamic. You ought to be using the many tools that can help span your attention and raise your tone so as to  become aware of all your dynamics.  If you are going to get into a relationship you are in for trouble if you don’t take care to be sure the prospective relationship aligns with the rest of your dynamics. If it does not you are guaranteed trouble. If it does, you’ve got it made.

When it comes to hearing of people using a relationship of trust, whether it is a formal auditing relationship, acting as a Chaplain or an Ethics Officer, or any other Scientology advisor type of relationship, I have zero tolerance.  I happen to agree with what LRH says about the matter in Science of Survival:

An auditor who is a wise auditor will steadfastly refuse sexual relations with a preclear. The auditor who yields to temptation at this level finds himself in a bad situation because his preclear is on the way up and will shortly pass this propitiative level and achieve more honorable levels of the Tone Scale. Auditors who, knowing this, permit themselves such actions are themselves at the 1.1 level and have no business auditing. None but a despicable cur would seek to benefit from this phenomenon; none but a chronic or acute psychotic would find enjoyment in it.

Promiscuity is a 1.1 trait, pure and simple.  It tears orgs apart. It is tearing the international Scientology org network apart at this moment because it is unchecked at the very top.

I have no authority nor inclination to probe into or control peoples’ personal lives and will make no effort to do so. Far be it for a guy who gets busted on Bourbon Street to be moralizing. At the same time, I have standards when it comes to actions that adversely effect others and particularly when someone uses my name or Scientology to do so.  If someone starts abusing Scientology to obtain sexual favors, he or she is no friend of mine.

This is an ethics gradient.  No names.  However, if in the future I find anyone using an alleged friendship with me to establish a Scientology relation of trust along this line, next time there will be names.

While we are on the subject of the 2D, I have a little something that might blow some charge, or perhaps bypass some depending on your point of view.  I saw some fairly extensive notes of LRH that he wrote in his final years.  He quite explicitly stated that the entire problem with breach of monogamy (beyond the physical risk of STDs)  is the breach of trust and the lies connected with it.  He said nary a word about whole track implants and the like (i.e. Pain and Sex).  For the robots who want to accuse me of  “verbal tech”, what am I to do?  DM will never publish the writings to which I refer – he is way too sick on the 2d for them to see the light of day.  Am I to just keep what I observed to myself?  When pigs fly.  You can take it or leave it.

The Second Dynamic can be a beautiful thing that enhances all other dynamics. After all, it encompasses the activity of creation. Why destroy in the name of creation?

165 responses to “Second Dynamic

  1. Quite a comment to write
    The old man was very logically in his perception and understanding of this sudject.

  2. UnluckyPatron

    Hey Marty, this is just an aside to you, that doesn’t really need to be published as it’s not relevant to the blog post, but more the whole blog.

    Coming from an online marketer standpoint, and thinking in increasing your rankings on Google, when you write DM, it’s not as effective as David Miscavige. The more it shows up and in it’s full form, the more likely you are to rank higher for his name. Same goes for any other topic you’d like to rank high for – write out the full name of it.

    Anyway, not a comment but just a side note to you.

  3. Right on Marty. One more world class post hits the airwaves!
    Betrayal is not a fun game.

    Loved your advises and the gradient set forth and agree with them totally.
    Looks to me like you are in a condition of POWER and anyone that is stupid enough to abuse your comm line, particularly for some 2 D advantage is an idiot and fool at best. If they need a shovel, I have an extra one.
    You have united many. Revitalized failed purposes, given hope, defined and clarified past suppressions, wrong indications, betrayals, changed many lives for the better and continued to fight against the human rights abuses that are occurring daily within the church.
    You take responsibility and with your honesty I can only admire you courage.

    Just as an aside, it’s pretty obvious by what comes out of DM’s mouth, where he lives on the 2D.
    Reference is “The Criminal Mind”. Don’t have my pack here but if anyone wants to throw up a few quotes,
    and the date of the policy letter, I found it to be extremely enlightening information, at one point in my life.

  4. I had often wondered if DM was remaining true to Shelly, even if she is technically missing in action.

    Then, sure enough, a recent report on Steve’s site mentioned the possiblility of DM hooking up with Jenny Linson.

    Well, it could all be rumor, I have no way of knowing, but the point is that I fully expect DM to be abusing the 2D in some fashion or other because he has demonstrated that he is full blown 1.1, underneath the apparent fury.

    Thanks for writing the above, Marty. I’ve personally watched questionable usage of the 2D have devastating effects amongst a few non-Scn friends in my time.

    It usually involves one of the terminals being in a vulnerable position and the other taking advantage for sexual favors, initially under the guise of “help”.

    It always ends in deeply hurt feelings from betrayed spouses, suffering relationships with one’s children, money problems, “sudden” health issues, and in one case, getting fired from a high-paying career at Microsoft and starting a hard core regimen of psych drugs due to the stress and strain (and massive distraction), of trying to hide his affair once the wife got wind of some clandestine emails. Ugly stuff.

    The temporary “romantic” courtship and subsequent sexual gratification just ain’t worth all the rest that WILL come with it, usually much faster than a person thinks it will.

    The funny thing is, if there is anything funny at all here, that the betrayers always seem to look so “shocked” at how badly they get stung in the end.

  5. That was one of the best articles you have published.

    You have given some good advice and reminded me of some areas to improve on in auditing.

    Well done, man.

    Sorry to hear of someone using your good office to gain some kind of abberated 2D advantage on another. That is most unfortunate.


  6. DFB aka Dfb99

    Thats a good idea.

    I misread your post at first because I think it has an extra comma. I think it should be:

    “Hey Marty, this is just an aside to you that doesn’t really need to be published…”

    How’s that for anal retentiveness?

  7. Oh yes, in regard to the notes you mentioned that you had the opportunity to read written by LRH. I believe it.
    Never really tracked totally with the Pain and Sex Issue put out by the church of scientology. Just seemed a bit out there to me.

  8. crashingupwards

    Marty. I like it

    Its all about character. “Be advised” is what your saying to some and “be warned” to others.

    We have never been at a loss for grifters, fakers, back slappers, name droppers, scam artists and worse in the “church”. We have had our share. Not so much on staff as in the “field”.

    Glad you drew the line early. Give everyone a heads up to be on guard. There are a lot of users out there.

  9. DFB aka Dfb99

    I think relaying your observation of unpublished writings is fine with the disclaimer that it’s just your duplication of something you read. It’s a matter of trust and the reader being able to evaluate data. It’s not like you’re going all Astar Paramejgian on us or something.

  10. An honest question:

    In my 42 years, believe it or not, I’ve actually……gasp…….masturbated!!!

    In the church, I was told by an OT VIII that this is a direct impediment to Bridge progress and was shown a reference in Handbook for Preclears about it pulling up old pictures of pain (paraphrasing here).

    I’d love for any tech trained folks to help out my understanding of what is or is not survival regarding the subject, if appropriate.

    If not appropriate to this blog, it’s okay if it’s not even posted.

    But, since we’re on the subject of the 2D…


    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex



    “Definition: A criminal is one who is motivated by evil intentions and who has committed so many harmful overt acts that he considers such activities ordinary.

    There is a datum of value in detecting overts and withholds in criminal individuals:



    The FBI agent or executive accuses others of graft and even sets up ” abscams” to manufacture the crime. But an FBI agent regularly pockets money supposed to be paid to informers and then screams to protect informer sources that do not exist.

    The FBI agent is terrified of being infiltrated and accuses others of it when, as standard practice, he infiltrates groups, manufactures evidence and then gets others charged for crimes his own plants have committed.

    The FBI acts like a terrorist group posing as law enforcement officers. Their targets seem to be legislators and Congress and public individuals who might someday have power over public opinion, such as Martin Luther King, Jr.

    From all this we get another datum:


    You have to be very alert when criminals are around.


    Doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists and the government form a tight clique. Only the government would support such people as the public hates them.

    From all this we get another datum:



    Apparently they add it up this way: “If I accuse him of robbing, then it would be assumed by others that I have not robbed a bank.” By loudly voicing a condemnation of a crime, the criminal, with a crooked think, supposes people will now suppose he is above bank robbery and won’t suspect him.


    It is inconceivable to the criminal that anyone could possibly be decent or honest or do a selfless act. It would do no good whatever to try to convince him, for he knows all men are like himself.

    Thus one gets another datum of value:


    One of the reasons he does this, of course, is to justify injuring others. Because everyone else is useless, worthless, criminal, an animal and insane, why then, he reasons, it is perfectly all right to injure them.

    The criminal mind is a bitter and unsavory subject. The percentage of criminals is relatively small but the majority of grief and turmoil in the world caused by criminals is a majority percent. Thus, the criminal mind is a subject one cannot avoid in research as it is a major factor in the distortion of a culture.

    It is a mind like any other mind but it has gone wrong. It is motivated by evil intentions which, even if idiotic, are greater than the possessor’s ability to reason. The criminal, even when he seems most clever, is really very, very stupid. The evil intentions get dramatized by senseless overt acts which are then withheld, and the final result is a person who is more dead than alive and who faces a future so agonizing that any person would shudder at it.


    — L. Ron Hubbard
    HCOB 15 September 1981 The Criminal Mind

  12. I want to make clear I do not agree entirely with the Examples used and that some are caught up by time in my opinion.

    I am Glad J.Edgar Hoover is long gone now. The uncrowned king of America.

  13. Marty,

    you write:”… He said nary a word about whole track implants and the like (i.e. Pain and Sex)….” Does that implicit the HCOB “Pain and Sex” was not written by LRH?
    Sorry, if I’d hear grass growing – to me it came across like that – please clarify.
    Thanks, Fidelio

  14. Idle Org,

    All I can tell you is this – as an “Old Timer”, Class IV and Sec Checker, all us auditors care about is this – Is the TA moving or not? If the PC is moving along, pops off the withhold and we are in session, not caring about anything else.

    If it becomes a problem, quick handle and back in session.

    Believe me, we’ve heard it all and could care less what anyone is doing to anyone else as long as our PC’s are kicking the banks butt in session.

  15. martyrathbun09

    Fidelio, I don’t know the answer to that one way or the other. What was implicit was that it is not an “effect” thing. It is not on account of what somebody else did to one. It is a simple matter of honesty and trust.

  16. Understood! Thanx! 🙂 Fidelio

  17. Masturbation on time is a courtesy to the Lady folk when you do not have a 2D. It makes a man relaxter and it prohibits awkward public sitiations and or men that are so built up they harras women.

    Don’t be like the Chatolics on this.

    It will make you go blind. It will make your palms grow hairy. Such myths about masturbation are largely a thing of the past. But the latest research has even better news for young men: frequent self-pleasuring could protect against the most common kind of cancer.

    A team in Australia led by Graham Giles of The Cancer Council Victoria in Melbourne asked 1079 men with prostate cancer to fill in a questionnaire detailing their sexual habits, and compared their responses with those of 1259 healthy men of the same age. The team concludes that the more men ejaculate between the ages of 20 and 50, the less likely they are to develop prostate cancer.

    The protective effect is greatest while men are in their twenties: those who had ejaculated more than five times per week in their twenties, for instance, were one-third less likely to develop aggressive prostate cancer later in life

  18. I just overheard a mumbled comment from a frost giant that we have under ethics and cramming in a near by cage whom happened to be looking over my shoulder as I read your blog.
    He was pulled for being a tad destructive around the Asgardian valleys. But muttered something like Why do,nt you chop off the offenders cajones and then give them back with thier attainment of thier “Clear” certificate ?

  19. Thanks for the reference. I wish I had had that statement when I knew an auditor who had out 2d with a pc. He said it wasn’t a break of the Auditors Code, and I scowered to find something specific that said “no”.
    It was so built into my understanding of an auditor’s beingness s that I was amazed at how difficult it was to find and show correct materials.
    This is really appreciated.

  20. Marty, it’s one of the characteristics of a cult that members often require the blessing or approval of the Leader in order to start a personal relationship. The line between personal and group life is obliterated. DM is certainly trying to get this sort of thing going in the Church – approving and disapproving relationships (usually disapproving). What’s disturbing to me is people who feel they need your blessing or approval to start a relationship! I would suggest they take back their lives and get over the need to have a leader or a group approve their own personal decisions. One of the potential after-effects of being in a heavily authoritarian group is that is can tend to atrophy one’s own decision-making process and instill fears about “making the right decision.” I would say – be brave, be bold – you have no boss or leader in your personal life, just yourself.

  21. “Don’t walk behind me, I may not lead. Don’t walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.” Albert Camus

  22. With regard to masturbation, the first night after we got married my wife came back in from another room and caught me beginning to masturbate. She looked at me and said, “You were going to do that without me?” I looked at the responsibility of that and said, “You’re right!” From that moment on ‘masturbation’ has never been an item for me.

  23. martyrathbun09

    Jeff, I agree wholeheartedly.

  24. Virgil Samms

    Well, to me it means that with all of this “Freedom” one has to take on more of an attitude of responsibility. I know what DM is thinking: “I am the King, I can do what the hell I want and NOBODY can sit in judgement of me.”

    This sort of think gets a little diluted further down the org board but is basically the same at our level: Now that we are all Independant doesn’t mean that we can now all do whatever our little banks want us to. It means we have to be even more responsible, more ethical and more on source. After all, we are protesting that the Church is off of the rails, so doesn’t that mean we have to be more ethical than they?

    ML Tom

  25. When I was a messenger I met a beautiful (2nd gen scientologist and sea org member, Bronwyn Bolger) We fell in love in Clearwater and were married. We had a fantastic 2D and were able to juggle everything else involved with clearing the planet. We were both sent up to CST and our 2D remained strong. It never overtook what we were doing on our other dynamics. We had a good balanced relationship. When she was sent to RTC for clean up our good 2d stopped. I got no comm from her for four months. I sent comm and got nothing back. Come to find out Shelly Miscavige was intercepting both of our communication. this went on through both of our birthdays. Soon I was sent to RTC as well for cleanup and ended up out at happy valley. Still writting letters (nothing bad just normal 2d stuff i.e. I miss you hope you are well etc) and doing the DPF I was still not allowed to see or communicate to my 2d. I started writting letters to Shelly to find out why none of my comm was being recieved and I was then sent to the RPF.

    It is strange how two people functioning on all their dynamics can have their worlds turned upsidedown by a third party focused on one dynamic.

    I love your post above Marty, it shows that all the dynamics are important. One of the only scientology books that I have left is an orig SOS. I love it and it has helped me greatly in my life outside of Org Scientology. LRH was very wise when it came to the balancing act we call life.

    Thanks again Marty for refering to source time and time again! you have my attention and support.


  26. I love this quote! I try and be a living breathing example of this in my everyday life! Rock on Jeff!

  27. “If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.”

    – Aboriginal activists group, Queensland, 1970s

  28. Chris Black

    Hey Marty,

    Thanks for the insight into LRH’s notes. That actually makes sense and aligns with pretty well all his other input on the area as well as just generally everything he’s ever talked about: life and livingness. One can align new data to known data and be able to evaluate it. So, makes sense.

    But my real question is, it sounds like there was/is quite a bit of unpublished works. I remember you mentioning in another posting that a piece of tech probably wouldn’t see the light of day. I wonder how many more there are.

    So I guess my question is/are two questions:

    How much LRH writing do you think hasn’t been issued? And do you think there’s anyway it will ever be issued/published, or is it lost? Can it be recovered, do you think?

    I ask because I love reading the old man and any chance to read new viewpoints of his would be most welcome. As well, it would probably shed a lot more sanity on current issues than the C of M does these days.

    Thanks, and Cheers,

  29. Hi Marty,
    I must say that when I left the CofS I did go a bit awry on the 2D. It took me quite a few years to get it under control.
    I’m happy to say that now I can separate things out. People overrestimulated by the misauditing of the CofDM can go into a sexual frenzy on leaving.
    It is my undestanding that “Pain and Sex” was written by LRH.
    With the 2nd and 3rd dynamic we must go back to basics.
    I find it hard to believe that people can audit in the CofS as it exists without auditing over an ARC break, problem, overt or withhold.
    Marty – you’ve sort of opened things up with your confession – its a bit like the “murder routine”
    I never spent a night in the slammer but that was probably a matter of luck given some of my antics.
    The amount of sensation available on the second dynamic can create a great deal of vulnerability. DM exploits that to the full.
    I agree with Marty fully on this point.
    I should additionally say that anyone from Clear to OT5 can be especially vulnerable on the 2nd dynamic.
    I have audited people who have been engaged in very unethical behavior on the 2nd dynamic and do know that case change is possible.
    As far as what is an overt that can impede one’s progress on the bridge I think LRH explained it well.
    Idle org – to answer your question I would say that masturbation does not cause harm to others and if pictures appear then that is something that can be taken up and handled in your next session. My opinion is that the so-called OT8 is FOS and probably is severely PTS to DM&co.

  30. You are correct Marty. I was doing book One on a PC and previously she want a 2D. I refused and keep my eye on the price and not deviate from that principal.
    I am proud of myself.
    Thank you!

  31. Smart wife!! 🙂 Fidelio

  32. Two of my friends share the following disgusting experience: as a bachelor and public scientologist, getting auditing, feels great, self confident and meets a woman in a bar, have sex with her, tell somebody in the org about it, are told by a very “concerned” staff member to read the sex and pain bulletin while the staff is waiting, and ends up feeling really confused, pissed and invalidated.

    The road to freedom? WTF!

  33. I’d like to point out that the problem isn’t having more than one partner per se, it’s the intent and/or the communication that’s the problem. It’s not promiscuity that’s 1.1, it’s hiding one’s true nature or withholding vital information from other concerned parties.

    In the polyamory community I know in the SF bay area, communication and safety are the norm. “May I sleep with your husband?” is a valid question. And then, one negotiates what one may or may not do, and safety is practiced. And yes, generally one does also ask the person who is not directly involved so there can be no misunderstanding. Everyone knows what to expect — it’s a real non-E formula.

    So while that is promiscuity, it is not 1.1. There ain’t nothing covert about it. There is no hostility. In fact, I’d say it’s out of the anger band entirely.

    From the alt.polyamory FAQ (

    “I think the key in defining polyamory is *openness*, that is, having multiple relationships with the knowledge and consent of your partner(s) rather than by deceit. (How much openness, how many details are shared, of course varies widely.) A great many people have secret affairs while they’re in a supposedly monogamous relationship. I think those people might have the potential to be polyamorous, but I do not think they are practicing polyamory. Another key in defining polyamory, IMO, is that it need not involve sex (although it often does).”

    Stef (whose quote that is) and her husband have been friends for years, so I can say that their arrangement does seem to work for them. I’ve known long-term stable triads and quads who lived together.

    FWIW, I am polyamorous, but I have only one sexual partner.

    Regardless of how you feel about the issue of polyamory, the FAQ is worth a read, especially if you audit others.

  34. The destruction of all things to do with the 2nd dynamic is a David Miscavige special.

    + A huge amount of ordered divorces…here is small handful

    +Enforced abortions for some 24 years, only now the Church has changed their tune due to impending law suits and legal advice. My son Alexander Jentzsch and his wife Andrea were pressured to abort their baby some 3 years ago (and they did) but it was endemic in the culture of the Sea Org and has happened countless times for well over 23 years.

    +Severing connections between parent and child, brother and sister, splitting up families and making anyone who did not drink the Kool Aid and toe the party line a disconnected person

    + Recruiting kids of Scientologists and putting them through slave labor in the Sea Org without schooling. (A lot of changes and window dressing tweaking being done to stop this practice now due to Legal issues.)

    + There is a Loft in downtown Los Angeles with some very inexpensive interlocking apartments where a huge bunch of ex SO kids live. They are known as the LOST BOYS. Many have parents at INT BASE, some in other SO locations. The parents do not have parent time and give these kids no parenting. They are lucky if their parents see them once a year. Their parents are working from 8am to midnight for David Miscavige. These “Lost Boys” were raised in the Sea Org ranch at 36491 Bouquet Canyon some 2 hours from Los Angeles. They were raised to defy authority and never report anything to Law enforcement.

    + I hired one of them for some 6 months as an assistant in the last year. One Saturday night on Hollywood Boulevard this kid got beaten up by a gang member badly. Police and ambulance came. He was taken to a hospital unconscious. His girlfriend call me and told me what had occurred. I made a bunch of calls to OSA, to the Chaplain at GOLD repeatedly.

    HIS MOTHER WAS NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE GOLD TO COME DOWN WITH HER SON IN HOSPITAL AFTER BEING BEATEN UNCONSCIOUS. She was on post at INT BASE (GOLD). This young man like several of the LOST BOYS have experimented with drugs, have a complete lack of self discipline but hey ~~~ their parents are working around the clock for “COB.”

    DM application of LRH policy of Way to Happiness, and 2d references.

  35. Isn’t it cool how real ethics is so clean and charge-less because it has the survival and well-being of all concerned at heart? No moralizing, no self-righteousness, but application of proper gradients and just setting the standard! How it’s done. So nice to see in action.

  36. Thanks for this wonderful post, Marty.

    I agree 100%.

    We cannot afford to have ANY mistrust among us if we are to be an effective group of Independents and expose Miscavige for who he really is.

    Nobody should use help as a button to get sexual or financial favors or serve his own twisted agenda. This is a fast track route to breaking up this wonderful group and will undoubtedly help Miscavige win in the end.

    Let’s keep our ethics in, each and every one of us, and keep our eye on the prize– a world where full human rights is a reality for ALL!

  37. I completely agree with Jeff on this. One reason would ask if it is okay is knowing that it isn’t to justify what they are doing; I guess. That is pretty twisted not taking responsiblity for your own actions. Just my thoughts. Jan

  38. Marty,
    Your recent posts on the 2nd and 3rd Dynamics have been outstanding, as have been your LRH references. It was a really wonderful 3rd Dynamic experience the other day, with your confession and all the duplication and ackowledgement that came back, extremely positive, sane, and Scientology all the way.

  39. DFB aka Dfb99

    Couldnt one become cause over something he is the effect of?

    It seems to me that sex and the 2D is part of being human even if it is part of whole track implants.

    I cant quote any LRH here, but one thing I;ve observed about thetans is they like to take something bad and make into an asthetic, thereby altering it into something theta. I dont know if the way I said that makes sense, but hopefully it does. Like making broken glass into a piece of art.

  40. Thought Provoking

    I’ve always liked this quote.

  41. Thanks Cat Daddy!

    That was useful.


  42. Snicks,

    Excellent points and excellent logic!

    Thanks for the ack!


  43. Not surprizing that the resulting problem with breach of monogomy are the overts and withholds.

    True for about everything as you go down the grade chart…

    arcx -> o/ws -> ptps -> out comm -> things get worse -> alcohol/drugs

    A person goes down as well as up.

    My opinion of course.

  44. Thought Provoking

    Disappointed to hear that there have been some unscrupulous 2D activities going on.

    There are 2 things that have always been sacred to me. The pc/auditor (extend to Ethics and Chaplain as well) relationship and the 2D. Both flourish when they are honest and truthful and can be disasterous when these are violated. Not only do they harm the parties involved but every terminal connected to them as well. It is hard not to experience the enturbulation connected to it.

    I have also found that the most successful 2D’s have been those whose dynamics have been aligned with each other. I have found doing admin scales to be helpful as well.

  45. Does somebody knows what is happening to the website ??????
    I’am getting error message since this morning
    and I cannot link it from here
    I called a friend so she try and she cannot enter

  46. I’d like to say to Lars who used to be my auditor at LA Day back in the early eighties, thank-you for having such integrity… because I was SO in love with you! Heehee.

    Or maybe I was just clumsy and easy to resist lol.

    I wonder where Lars is?

    I was in 2-D trouble several times while onlines, looking back in seems kinda silly.

    Most of us were young and single and innocent crushes abounded. The majority of it never got physical. I always wondered why it was taken so terribly seriously really.

  47. Personnaly I don’t mind you lot taking on a whole girls fraternity as long as all is with consent. The Ethics are more in the way marriages are not broken up. Young SO girls not being raped or sexually harrased by seniors. It’s actually easy to be more ethical. Just don’t lie and cheat. And if you do it is not something that you deserve jail for.

    Ethical does not mean turning into a monk. Let alone a priest and we all know what celibacy gets you in the Catholic church.

    When you are single do as thou willst. When you have a partner be true too him or her, otherwise there is no point.


  48. I think shelly did a can’t have on you both because she can’t have herself.

    It’s Envie

    And again the Why is DM

  49. Although I am not tattaly on-board on this read David Miscavige instead of Destructive creature

    “Destructive creatures who do not want people big or reaching—since they are terrified of punishment due to their crimes—invented pain and sex to shrink people and cut their alertness, knowingness, power and reach.

    “Thus, you see people who are “experiencing” either pain or sex introverting and not producing much.

    Pain and sex were the INVENTED tools of degradation.”

    It does NOT mean sex is bad it just means it can used as control like rape is alsoo. DM uses it this way like the Catholic Church does.

    It’s all about control(ling bodies if you will)

  50. “Keep feeling the need for being first. But I want you to be the first in love. I want you to be the first in moral excellence. I want you to be the first in generosity.”

    – Martin Luther King, Jr.

  51. I have no Sympathy for DM and I have no Sympathy for the Organization he has created.

    He will never step down willingly and you lot KNOW it.

  52. A person who asks you to be a match maker is a loser unable to create a 2D for himself.

  53. Why doesn’t he rather sleep with his wife?

  54. Freedom Fighter


  55. I wonder too if DM had affairs but how can one prove its?

  56. when my kids where minors I always told them that I will never never let them join the SO, if they want to join they will have to wait till there were 18 yrs old.
    They are in their 20s now and none of them want to join the SO at all.

  57. Marty;

    My own 2D issue way back when involved a wife who had been absent for most of the previous five years, and had no intention to partake in either motherhood or sex.

    That I commenced a real 2D one week before informing the putative spouse? Not relevant.

    This did not comprise a campaign to perpetuate continuing “lies”.

  58. That is very beautiful Marty.
    We should have a terminal for ethic and chaplain matter so as to be impartial and do not allow data to be perverted. We should learn more about communicating with each other instead of forward secrecy. Secrecy always covers desire to control or out-ethics. Only seldom is necessary.
    Ethic is not punishment and directing attention on creating and validating the good while correcting the fault it is necessary in order to get the person out of it in good shape.
    Thank you for this wonderful article.
    I hope we all learn from this.

  59. Oh, goody – let’s talk about the 2D!

    I’m not a dummy, but I never was a genius on the 2D. Every year while writing down my new year’s resolutions, somewhere between #15 and #20 I’d remember the 2D and write down something like: “Find a 2D who’s not an asshole.”

    When I was 50, after being single for 15 years, I finally figured it out. Like Marty and Mosey, my baby and I met online and wrote to each other for months before meeting. We are PERFECT for each other. Although we’re exactly the opposite in terms of personality and style, our values are the same. We are wonderful partners in life, love, home, fun, and adventures. For us it’s like Rocky said about Adrian, “She’s got gaps, I got gaps, together we fill gaps.” (No pun intended!)

    Don’t misunderstand this next bit, but a really, really great 2D is so much more than sex. When it is good, it is magical, full of joy, adventures, such wonderful peace and the safest place in the universe. Doubtless, some of you were smarter than me and found your great partner when you were young. Some of us just had to keep practicing until we got it right.

    I’d say a great way to find a great 2D is to first get to know yourself. Then when that wonderful partner comes along you’ll recognize that they’re a perfect fit for your own beautiful “gaps.”

    Just Me

  60. Yes, it is quite down.

    Hello, Steve??

  61. martyrathbun09

    Just talked to Steve. He is checking it out. He said that sometimes his server does maintenance updates unannounced – and at this point is not alarmed.

  62. Marty, Thanks for this post. I was happy to read the above reason for the clause in the auditor’s code when I studied SOS a couple of years ago, though I always followed the code previous to knowing the reason behind it.
    I have a very special 2D. When Bonny and I decided to get married (She had decided to join the SO and I’m not qualled, but didn’t want to lose my soul-mate, so asked her to marry me first), the first thing we did was an admin scale to ensure our goals and purposes alligned. Although goals can change, mine never did regarding my 2D. I would never consider cheating, as any instant gratification could never make up for the loss of the love of my wife.
    I look at the 2D, and all the dynamics as a separate beingness, an organism in it’s own right. When a dynamic is fully integrated it operates and strives toward survival as itself. Violating the agreements of the dynamic will cause a lessening of survival.
    The third dynamic operates the same way, one can feel as betrayed by a group member secretly dealing against the group as one can in the 2D. This is the main reason we get so upset with DM, he went out-3D on us.

  63. Joe Pendleton

    Yes, to use 3D connections or ANY connections for unethical 2D advantage is way NOT OK.

    LRH wrote many, many things that can be used to have a successful 2D (ARC Triangle, OW Tech, Formulas, etc, as well as data on creating). Also, I don’t discount HCO B Pain and Sex. Just wait until the next time you are really in pain, or really horny (or hungry even) and watch how much your attention is controlled and how at effect you are.

    Having said that, I have certainly realized the complete folly and disaster of agreeing to put one’s 2D under the control of a church or religion. Religions have always (ALWAYS) on our planet used sex as a means of control and punishment (and Scientology has proven to be no different).

    I have NEVER gotten any good advice or direction on the 2D from an ethics officer (and much worse, from the teeny bopper ones in the SO) in 40 years involvement in Scientology.

    My experience (and I have CSd ten thousand staff sessions) is that staff are just as loony in this area as the general public. And the Sea Org? Just look at the multiple marraiges and brutal must have/can’t have and obscene RPF punishments for even “wrong flows.” This is religion for you. Or I should say, ALLOWING religion to control your sex life, money life or any other part of your life.

    Again, LRH had many wonderful and useful things to comm about this area. But he was also kind of fucked up himself in this area, right? And I’m not just talking about 3 marraiges and abandoning his very loyal last wife. Look at the way he handled his children (especially his sons – REAL bad problem there – LRH himself was unable to handle a Type A sit with his oldest son, and we wil leave alone the tragedy of Quentin for now). And if you youtube Hana Whitfield’s lectures at Hamburg, you can get some other data.

    I’m not really interesting in trashing LRH, as he has contributed to positive world culture a million times over whatever he did that was not OK, or counter to his own tech.

    My point is just that, for ME, it has been a loser to take direction or orders on the 2D from Ron or any member of the church. (or take “directions” in any area of life really). Read the data, make it your own and MAKE UP YOUR OWN FREAKING MIND. Religious philosophy can be very enlightening and make life more worthwhile and enjoyable. But organized churches also exist to control people exploit them and rob them of their self-determinism.

    This goes WAY BEYOND Mr. David Miscavige. He’s just one of the inevitable results of this repeating whole track religious game.

    I see the positive of making LRH data/tech freely available to any one who wants it and anyone who wants to use it (to audit others or counsel in any way). And it will be a better day when the church eventually fizzles out (as numbers decrease slowly over the next 30 years or so – my prediction anyway).

    You are responsible for your 2D. Not Marty or anyone else (hey, you’ve seen the “ex wives” on the Cooper show – THESE are the types of folk who would control your 2D if they could)

  64. Just Me,
    What a wonderful post.

  65. Martin Gibson

    (NOTE: this is my understanding, but it expresses my understanding of a couple of bodies of data in a condensed fashion) I think a good rule of thumb is ‘to help’. Bearing ‘to help’ in mind while evaluating a course of action raises my personal level of sanity and rationality. Sex is an awesome validation of deep affinity, used in a shallow context the fireworks are more aligned to explosive emotions rather than raised perceptions following the jump in Affinity. Help and betrayal are buttons the church either neglects or consciously uses in a reverse scientology fashion. I have identified it as the button that will straighten the whole shit fight out, of course thats after LRH found it, but I mean from personal application experience, straighten out help aligns purpose with intention and raw thetan power flows towards survival. Alternatively dont and a bloke ends up running subconsciously on 7 other dynamics to knock out the first dynamic. Like it or lump it, 8 parallel help flows exist, if the first heads towards destroy the other 7 exert force to pull off those ‘foot bullet’ postulates with effortless efficacy and accuracy.

  66. Idle Org,
    Here’s the quote from Handbook for Preclears you were paraphrasing:
    “The facsimiles of an individual can become considerably scrambled by masturbation. Practically all the ape family and Man masturbate. Masturbation is a prohibition result. It couldn’t drive anyone crazy. But it can make the individual pull old sex facsimiles into present
    time for self-stimulation and opens the door for him to desire facsimiles to be in present time.
    After awhile he will be pulling pain facsimiles into present time.”

    As a humorous aside, considering the bulletin, The Nature of A Being, is there any such thing as ‘auto-eroticism’?

  67. Appreciated the reference post and your comment, CD.

  68. Deirdre,

    I like what you say. There ain’t just one way to do relationship just as missionary position isn’t the only sexual possibility. We’ve gone through quite a sexual/relating revolution in my life… with more to come.

    Not long after I left the church a girl friend invited me to a weekend workshop on intimacy and relationship that turned out to be clothing optional. It was an empowering moment to be in a hall with 150 people mostly naked and do various exercises.

    Afterward I had a vision of what it would be like if Sea Org execs and DM in particular were to be present without clothes… without the pomp of uniform and rank or gaudy backdrops. Some real communication might occur.


  69. Yes, Jeff, I agree. Very well said. Let’s steer clear of the cult-mind habits and behaviors, no matter they may still seem “normal”. Let’s behave newly in a new unit of time.

  70. Excellent quote.

  71. Love this quote. So appropriate.

  72. I like the stuff you say here, Cat Daddy.

  73. Another subject, but anyone who’s posted their name here and not then contacted Steve Hall at to put their name on the Indy 500, can you do that? I think you have to contact him to get on, don’t wait for an invitation. We’d be near 200 names by now probably if everyone wrapped that up.

  74. In one session abut 20 years ago I had the opportunity to examine some lives of extreme debauchery on my part. Afterward I had this wonderful feeling of compassion. My realization was that if I could accept myself having done all that then I could feel compassion for all the pervs and criminals in the here and now. That doesn’t mean condoning. Just compassion.

  75. Thanks Joe for this comment. I totally agree with you.

  76. Considering that only David Miscavige could send his wife to the RPF, I think we can assume that they are no longer really married. Who the he’ll would graduate the RPF and return to the “loving” husband who sent her there?

  77. DFB aka Dfb99

    Hey, does anybody know the ACC’s real good? I’m trying to find a lecture. It used to be in the “Game of OT” lectures. It basically covered the subject of the dynamics not being native to the thetan. That he sort of agreed to take these areas on.

    Anyway I remember about ten years ago it blew the top of my head off and I’m trying to find it, but I cant find it in the new ACC’s. I cant even tell which lectures are the Game of OT lectures.

    I felt it related to this topic as it totally changed my viewpoint on the dynamics.

  78. Eileen Clark

    One wonders just who and why such actions would be done. Looking for ammunition where there is none? Odd that.

    In case that comes across as a bit too cryptic. I’m just saying that 1.1 is not a trustable tone level and that it is very likely that person, whoever they are, is not a true friend of M&M, but of David Miscavige.

    Good on you, again, Marty.


  79. rory Medford

    “The Domino Effect” is happening in the C of S. Dynamic by dynamic the truth will unfold hence plop goes the weasel

  80. Eileen Clark

    Just Me

    You have given me hope!

    Yes, it is a wonderful post.

  81. Thought Provoking

    “I’d say a great way to find a great 2D is to first get to know yourself. Then when that wonderful partner comes along you’ll recognize that they’re a perfect fit for your own beautiful “gaps.” ”

    I agree completely!

  82. Item 13 of the Supervisor’s Code: “The Supervisor must not become emotionally involved with students of either sex while they are under his or her training.” If it’s forbidden for a sup, it must surely be the same for an auditor. Of course I’m assuming that the 2D relationship would contain at least a modicum of emotion!

  83. RobotFighter

    One of DM’s main lines of attack has always been the 2D since it is so easy to introvert people into irrelevant actions like masturbation. In case it has been edited out by Adolf Mudcabbage, there is an LRH lecture where he said as auditors we are NOT interested in things like masturbation which are simply part of the unseemly side of life.

    I listened to these lectures when they were still on reel-to-reels and before Mudscavenger put his own spin on them.

    There was a second lecture — and I know Mudcabbage took this one out — and perhaps some old timers will also recall these references — where LRH said if anyone were to sneak into his bedroom, he’d probably get “short shrift”.

    This was a lecture from Saint Hill and of course “short shrift” is the prank of bringing the sheet up from the bottom of the bed so when a person gets into bed, their legs can only go half way. If you examine the definition of an overt, which is doing something to harm self or another, ordinary masturbation as well as “thoughts” are frankly not overt acts. Here is an example of an actual overt: masturbating on the job. But the overt wouldn’t be “masturbation”; it would be “wasting time”.

    There used to be an old saying: “90% of the human race masturbates. And the other 10% are liars.”

    Many people have never taken responsibility to decide for themselves what constitutes an overt. Now what Mudsavage has done is turn that into psychological warfare by doing exactly what LRH said not to do: making people wrong for their overts. But in this case, it’s not even an overt, so it’s a double whammy.

    The result is preclears fixated on the subject, false overts, false guilt… and then they go DOWN the tubes, while trying to go UP the Bridge. It is a recipe for disaster.

    The solution is for each person to get trained (hopefully using earlier uncorrupted lecture transcripts) and to stop being wishy-washy and work out for himself or herself exactly WHAT is a violation of the moral codes they subscribe to.

  84. Hi Mina and Gary, The Twitter module I was using somehow got itself corrupted and had to be replaced. The website is otherwise completely secure. Thanks for letting me know!

  85. Joe, this is really well said. The fact is, every person is rising toward “cause over life.” That would include gaining the ability to be one’s own ethics officer. It’s right in the code of honor as “keep your own counsel.” It’s a matter of deciding to cease being a victim and take responsibility for yourself.

    While on the subject, it is also impossible to be “cause over life” while one is still blindly taking orders or accepting EVERYTHING in Scientology as true. The point is not to negate the tech, the point is LRH said what is true in Scientology is what is true for YOU.

    The 64 million dollar question is, “What is true for YOU?” Most Scientologists have never decided and thus have never achieved personal integrity… by definition! They are operating on “other determinism.” Even when LRH is the “other” it’s still “other determinism.”

    It is wrong to accept everything you hear as “correct” just because you trust the source. LRH never told anyone to be a robot. Quite the contrary. He said to wake up and take responsibility. The basic confusion as regards the 2D is actually… on the first dynamic. People have simply not yet come up to the point of realizing that their own opinion matters, and that forward progress up the Bridge hinges upon one’s judgment and evaluation on what is true for them.

  86. Doc "Smith"

    There is one LRH datum on the 2D I’ve always kept in mind. I heard a tape play early in my Scn track and don’t know the lecture title, so if anyone does please let me know. To paraphrase, Ron said the two areas of money and sex are the most aberated areas on the track, so until you get up to OT, there will be problems, just pick someone and make it go right.

  87. This is the kind of private Email I receive on the subject of splitting up families and DISCONNECTION at

    Dear Karen,

    You likely know my family ****** and ******* and *************

    I was kicked out of the Sea Org (Thank GOD!!!!) they gave me $300.00 a suitcase and I had to pay for  greyhound out of town… born and raised in the Sea Org, left at 24 years old with nothing to my name… no credit, no money, didn’t know anyone NOTHING! anyways… I am doing great, having a a kid, make great money, life is great…

    I haven’t seen my parents in 8 years, they don’t even know I’m having a boy…or that they are going to be grandparents.

    They were ordered to DISCONNECT from me, and I was thrown onto a Greyhound Bus like a discard.

    (the rest is confidential)

  88. In fact, Cat Daddy, there’s a book called “The Ethical Slut” about the ethical framework for polyamory. I haven’t read it, but several people have recommended it.

    There’s a lot of forms of “true” in relationships.

  89. Lady Lancelot

    To Idle Org–thank you for raising the subject of masterbation (blush) and Joe Pendleton for the medical article regarding benefits of such and to everyone else for your input. I learned a lot. Some misconceptions got cleared up.
    And Joe Pendelton, thank you for your post. You said well, what I have thought and wondered myself from time to time.

  90. I’m a widow, and ordinarily you’d think that was my greatest 2D loss this life. It was phenomenally painful, that’s for sure.

    But it wasn’t my biggest. It wasn’t even my second biggest.

    My first was the relationship I gave up because an E/O told me to. The second was a relationship I might have had while I was in, but wouldn’t permit myself because of what had happened before.

  91. Many Religions engange in ruling 2nd D and eating. Scientology in addition found sleep.
    I did observe this for long time but never found the why behind that. Mabe I found out a bit.
    It is a big control operation for homo sap.
    First we put the thetan into a body that needs food and sleep. (I would say this body needs also sex, but many would deny that) And then we do not grant that. Thus we create charge and all that persons attention is on getting food, sleep and sex. Thus in the end you have fat people, nuts ones and sex addicted ones.
    In case you are in that trap, do not add more rules but get back to normal operation if possible. Your body knows what food he needs, how much sleep he needs at what time and how much sex he needs at a given age. Listen to your body not the rulers. The rulers want you to go crazy on sex, sleep and eat.

  92. Marty, welcome to the side of the people “that LRH would abhor”. (I hope you know what I’m alluding to.) Awesome beings! 🙂

  93. Martin Gibson

    While I am at it, and following a cognition that will blow charge like dynamite (or a correct item) for some: there is a bulletin called ‘How Help became betrayal’. While my professional training is non-existant, this time round at least, here is a little pearl, gem, what-do-know-joe. In presession processes help is the bottom rung, THIS IS INCOMPLETE DATA. Havingness was found to be above interest in case opening and cracking, thus, with the addition of havingness Ron renamed the steps Prehavingness. Now when someone, such as in a 2d, falls BELOW help, and following overts (which of course are betrayals), becomes fearful of help (as help can lead to betrayal). Now when this occurs you may say ‘but I love you’ only to hear non sequitour statements. REMEMBER FEAR is a dispersal band. You say ‘it was not my intention to hurt’ pc (or 2d), now in FEAR dramatises a dispersal ‘but but but’. This can blunt your purpose to re-establish trust. Keep in mind when putting in order disorder comes up and BLOWS OFF. Of course after fear is covert hostility (mona lisa grin with sadistic purpose etc) keep putting in theta. I have run this out using light 2-way-comm on establishing what trust could be, then running 2-way help. EP was ‘I want to help you!’ (actual wording of real life EP). Now… Below havingness is substitute and waste, on the havingness scale (this is a different scale from above), one can substitute ABILITY (to create a 2d) with using anothers drawing-power (in this case Martys) to amalgamate a concept of self with prosurvivalness. Also note to do this one may be in the band I-am-too-painful-I-must-be-someone-else. Thus the perpetrator is badly in need of help as below the social veneer one can be aiming for aesthetics as the (as tone level of auditor required for case, science of survival gives underlying understanding). Help the poor bastard, but dont risk trust until flat on it.

  94. Ahh Qual Ninja is back.

  95. OUT-3D!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You got it¨!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Word of the century.
    Why did we never say that ?
    You’re out 3D !

  96. MissBridgett

    Hey there Cat Daddy, Idle Org, et al you *boys*,

    …I am a *lady*, but also an RN, and I can attest to the fact that the article in the weblink you posted above (thanks Cat Daddy) is medically sound & correct. No one should be ashamed about sexuality. It is a personal thing, but nothing to be embarrassed about. One of my instructors in Nursing School was a Catholic Nun, and she made sure we *ladies* got over any difficulty discussing anything/everything regarding sexuality…as we might need to talk about it with our patients when discussing health matters…she also informed us that if we thought that priests did not masturbate…think again! :-)…the body needs what the body needs. But to remember…a *healthy individual* is in control of their physical urges and doesn’t just act on them *willy~nilly*…Je’m’excuse the pun! 🙂

    And just a bit about the 2D…it has agrieved me much al the excellent healthy 2D’s that DM and his minions have split apart…part of a strong organization, group, community…and even a civilization is all the stronger for it GOOD relationships on the 2D…

    …instead it appears that DM plays musical chairs with just about everyone’s 2D relationships…perhaps even more so the very well matched 2D’s…now that is something to be ashamed about!

    MissBridgett, wearing her RN hat for a moment.

  97. Jim,

    I always love your posts and this one is a real goody! Auto-eroticism indeed! LOL.

    Thank you Marty for posting the info you read in LRH’s unpublished works. I was been completely mystified by the current Church’s obsession with sex for a while, but once I realized they were truly operating in the band of controlling bodies and that band of the tone scale, it made perfect sense to me that they would have their focus on sex. And pain. And suffering.

    That’s why I think the work you have been doing on this blog is so important. The staff in the Sea Org should be getting good auditing as a matter of course, not threats, degradation, and attempts to force them to be “good.” I think it was in Science of Survival where LRH said that there were three valid therapies — change of environment, education and auditing. And auditing results in a permanent rise in tone. Boy, do we need that!!!

  98. Well, Larry,
    that’s what I was talking about. Don’t you think she made Pericles exactly do that? 🙂
    Peace, Fidelio

  99. martyrathbun09

    Doc, I noticed too. Brilliant sum up.

  100. martyrathbun09

    Martin, thanks for the spot on reference. It was absolutely betrayal in the guise of help on several levels.

  101. martyrathbun09

    well put Steve, good point.

  102. For the ladies . Men tend to make you feel bad if you pursue your own sexuality.

    Don’t let them bring you down, It is just their insecurity that plays up.

  103. Marty-

    Another thought provoking post.

    Here’s a thought of mine regarding the 2D:

    The 2D for me has gotten screwed up whenever I’ve allowed myself to get so low toned on the tone scale that I’ve found myself in the band of -1.5 controlling bodies down to (particularly) -5.0 WORSHIPING BODIES. That’s when I’m not seeing the Being that’s there, just the MEST.

    I believe it’s all a matter of keeping things in perspective regarding all of the dynamics. Your general advice above really says it all.



  104. “When it comes to hearing of people using a relationship of trust, whether it is a formal auditing relationship, acting as a Chaplain or an Ethics Officer, or any other Scientology advisor type of relationship, I have zero tolerance.”

    Add the 2D to that list and I’m with you all the way.

  105. When someone gives you their trust they have given you a sacred gift. They have told you that you are worthy of your trust. It isn’t something that should ever be taken for granted or abused. To do so is to degrade both the giver and the receiver of that sacred gift.

  106. Dear Karen,

    should you ever publish that compilation of personal information you are about to gather, it will be a heck of a doc on horrors and HR violations committed by that cult.

    God, do I hate to have supported that unknowingly by all my years “in”. I just have to accept it as something I have done.

    Hope the spook is over soon and we see dm behind bars. Fidelio

  107. Just me, I salute you !

  108. Very well put, Joe. Whereas I have encountered many of those”teenie bopper” ethics officers, I have also been the beneficiary of some real help on the 2D from an ethics officer at LA org about 20 years ago:

    I had been pretty much raging around the place, having been dumped by my wife and facing divorce. The C/S put me in for a confessional, a sincere help flow to me, not some brutal “I’m-not-auditing-you” interrogation.

    After the auditing, which only took a couple of sessions, I was sent to the ethics officer, and the totality of the handling was for me to do an admin scale on the 2nd dynamic. When I wrote it up and showed it to her, she wouldn’t completely buy it, as I had glibly written, under “Programs” and “Projects”, something like, “Write and do as needed”. She had me go ahead and figure out, thenwrite what should be the current programs for my second dynamic. So I wrote a “Get a Divorce Program” and a “Prep Self to Begin Dating Program”.

    Snapped me right out of it, in a gentle, friendly, helpful way. And <i<not by order, edict or direction, but by dusting me off enough to allow me to benefit from this amazing admin scale tool, and then stepping aside and letting me get on with it. That stays in my mind to this day of how Scientology is supposed to work.

  109. A few years ago I was on the Freewinds and didn’t know yet about the new 3-swing definition of an F/N. Like most P/Cs though I knew when I was having one. When the auditor didn’t call it right away my attention then went onto the auditor, whose attention was on the meter, waiting for it to ‘play Dixie’.

    The F/N never made it to the third swing, at which point the auditor went fishing for O/Ws, specifically sexual ones although that didn’t have anything to do with the action being run. “Have you gone out 2D?” No. “Have you masturbated?” Well yes, I’m not a eunuch. But I don’t consider it an overt, so why do you want to know? “How many times? Where did you do it?” Etc., on and on.

    FInally, she called an F/N. It must have been an ARC-break F/N, because by then I was pretty fed up with this wild goose chase that I’d been paying for by the minute. It was only after I got on this blog last year that I had an answer to the mystery of why 1. Auditing was so crappy, on the ship of all places, and 2. Why the auditor was so obsessed with finding sexual O/Ws. It’s all part of the little dictator’s own obsession.

  110. Wise words are wise. Thoughtfull you have the integrity worthy for a chaplain.


  111. Keep up the good work Karen you’re a trooper. And the best of luck to all who seek your councel.

    ML CD

  112. Meaning of facsimile (noun)
    copy; reproduction; replica

  113. Jim I have run Havoc and virtally unchecked on Marty’s Blog. Welcome back.

  114. I love it when you say sexy things like that Sam.

  115. In our group, we use the Policy LRH wrote in 1967 to outline Second Dynamic Rules. To the best of my knowledge this policy has never been cancelled.
    I include the entire text here to show the comparison between what the CoM is doing as opposed to what the founder of Scientology actually published as policy regarding the matter.

    I’m actually kinda surprized at how many Scientologists, both in and out of organized Scientology, are not aware of this reference.

    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    Remimeo BPI
    It has never been any part of my plans to regulate or attempt to regulate the private
    lives of individuals.
    Whenever this has occurred it has not resulted in any improved condition.
    All I have been interested in, so far as Scientology law was concerned, was in removing
    retarding elements or practices from the path of progress toward freedom.
    Man is aberrated. Otherwise we would not be here. He is hard to rescue as he has been
    carefully “trained” to do himself harm.
    I have no concern about the second dynamic activities of Scientologists save only
    where they bring suffering to others and so impede our forward progress.
    In their place, any husband, wife or individual whose processing or training has been
    impeded or interrupted beyond any reasonable doubt by second dynamic activities on the part of staff or associates or their husband or wife may have recourse to the HAPLAIN’S
    COURT, Division 6, of any Scientology organization, and any case heard, if it be proven beyond reasonable doubt that, without provocation, a person’s training or processing has been impeded by the irregular second dynamic actions of the defendant, a fine of not less than oe1000 sterling or greater than oe5000 sterling shall be awarded the plaintiff and until paid, the defendant shall have no further training or processing.
    This policy is not retroactive (occurrences before this date may not be tried).
    No Ethics order shall be issued by reason of second dynamic activities. All Ethics orders
    now in force relating to the second dynamic are cancelled.
    No staff member may be punished, transferred or dismissed because of second dynamic
    No student or preclear may be suspended or dismissed because of second dynamic activities.
    Nothing in this policy letter lays aside our actual knowledge of the consequences of
    second dynamic overts against husbands and wives being processed or the degree to which training or processing can be impeded for someone because of another’s acts.
    We are also aware that those org staffs which are overactive on the second dynamic
    seldom prosper.
    We also retain any and all technology relating to the second dynamic.
    One of Man’s primary areas of aberration is the second dynamic.
    Processing, not discipline, is the only thing which eradicates aberration of such depth.

  116. People who have a proffesional relationship with another person were their is a institutial dependance by that other person on them are disciplined harder or at least the law intends to do so. Think Teachers, professors,policemen and yes psychologists and psychatrists or any other health-proffesional and any other relationship where there is assymetry of power.

    However I view infidelity on the 2D as a personal matter between two (ussualy) people.

    The Tolerance remains zero but the handling should be diffrent.

  117. martyrathbun09

    I’m not the only one who can talk trash.

  118. dfb99,
    I know the datum you’re talking about, but can’t recall offhand which lecture it is from. Send me an email and I’ll get back to you on this one when I get a moment to search my tapes.


  119. “Don’t walk behind me, I may not lead. Don’t walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.” Albert Camus

    Fantastic point, Jeff, and excellent quote, thank you! Best to all,

  120. XCS,

    I remember that and know that Bronwyn was pretty much devastated after that cycle for a while. However, she’s had another 2D cycle broken up similarly and still drinks the Kool Aid so, go figure!

  121. It was a joke jeezzz.

  122. You are a wise parent.

  123. Hubbard has a reference on how to spot your enemies. I do not have the exact reference with me at the moment but I have posted it on this blog before.

    Something like :

    “You can therefore spot your enemies by anyone who seeks to knock out your:


    and a few other things.

    When someone piggy backs on your reputation or goodwill for gain and then turns that into a bad outcome that is a form of treason.

    I myself am in the middle of juggling from keeping a lot of things from being knocked out from underneath me. (And my family)

    Hubbard’s advice is MAXIMUM creation and MINIMUM destruction.

    That is easy math to follow.

    If the 2d resulted in a tribe of children coming forth, it could turn out to be a good thing Marty!

  124. churchie site came up with this

    “GAMES CONGRESS—AUGUST-SEPTEMBER 1956 · 13 lectures · Spiritual and Material Requirements of Man · The Anatomy of Human Problems · Games Conditions versus No-Games Conditions · Third Dynamic Application of Games Principles · Auditing Procedure 1956 · Universe · Havingness · Demonstration of SCS ·
    3 Group Processing Sessions: Crave to Know; Keep It from Going Away; Hold It Still, Mama and Papa. “

  125. Why should Marty think his opinion on such things is important? It isn’t.

    He’s only in a position of assumed authority because he is as big a thug as David Miscavige, and less honest.

    Go on, publish this.

  126. Feel free to do with this inquiry as you see fit. I do not think you will want to post it publicly as it is a private matter and I am only seeking clarification. However I never put anything in writing I wouldn’t want to see on the internet.

    “It has come to my attention recently that a couple of people have used good things I’ve said about them in the past to establish trust relationships with others and then severely breached those trusts.”

    So, I want to ask you about this, about 2 months ago I was approached by three people who asked me to comb your blog and hit people up for donations (for them) to sponsor various programs you were running.

    At that time, I said (to all of them at the same time) that I did not think it was ethical for me to contact people on your forum and reg them donations for “Marty causes or missions” without your express written requst. I was assured by all three of them I should go right ahead and start contacting people subscibing to your forum, to donate money to them.

    Not feeling good about it, hell, I just started financing them myself. The last was the “cross country org eval mission”.

    Do you know your blog is being used as an income source for certain blog watchers?

    Is it O.K. with you if people are being regged for donations that you do not ask for yourself?

    I am thinking I would want these things clarified for myself and others at this time. As I am down about 7,000.00 in cash and resources (not to you) in the last eight weeks just funding the crew you have working for you in my local area?

    Do you know anything about this?

    Do you mind if people on your blog are being contacted for donations by other people on your blog?

    It has been a grey area for me and I am asking for a clarification.

  127. Easy for you to hide behind a monitor where face to face confrontation is excluded as a possibility “willy”. Who is the bully here?

  128. Guys, thanks for the sweet words. All I can say is it really was worth waiting for. And as we say, time ain’t no nothin no how.

  129. martyrathbun09

    Oracle, I do not know anything about these matters. Wow. In fact, it sounds like an OSA Operation to me. Please email me with particulars on this “mission”. I’d love to post your comment, but got the idea you didn’t want it posted. Can’t do a post for the forseeable future cause today’s is just the tip of the iceberg.

  130. If you would love to post my comment, post it.

    I just didn’t know if YOU would want it posted.

  131. In fact, I offered it in case you wanted to alert people that you are not authorizing or behind donations regging on your forum. Need a few minutes to do write up. Coming by you this evening.

  132. O.K., before the wtares get any muddy er.

    Maybe you should just contact Eileen Clark, Tom and Linda, in Las Vegas. Because I want my information verified. Ask them about hitting your forum for donations and asking me to hit your forum for donations. Ask them about this croos country Org eval I sponsored. Show them my comm to you, ask them to deny it or verify it. I would be curious to know if they deny anything I have written. But I do not think they are OSA, maybe just some crazy gypsies? WTF?

  133. Well hell, Eileen has been asking for the “safehouse” address so she can go see it for herself to report to you?

    So far I have told her this is just between you and I and have refused to give her the address.

  134. Are you flirting with me 😉
    LOL relevant to the posting?

  135. I eat my trolls with honey
    I’ve done it all my life.
    It makes the trolls taste funny
    but it keeps them on the knife.

  136. You are talking about commitment wich can be to some a very sexy thing. And yes I am flirting 🙂

  137. Say what?!?

  138. martyrathbun09

    I guess it is not enough for these locusts to reg their own carcasses, now they are regging our people under the guise I somehow am directing or am a recipient.

  139. Willy,

    “Why should Marty think his opinion on such things is important? It isn’t.”

    You are absolutely correct. His or anyone’s is really not important. The only thing that is important is true data. That goes for LRH too! It is each of our responsibility to evaluate data not the messenger. The biggest problem with the indi movement is the David Misgavage followers’ first look at the source of the data and discount it if the source is disapproved of. They don’t look at the data and if the data seems odd they don’t then try to verify or prove incorrect to themselves that data. There are many eye witness reports on these blogs. First hand data is impressive especially when it is verified by numerous other eyewitness bloggers. What has been the most damning data is that one can observe personally like the” having to have before you can do” of the IAS , Ideal Orgs and Super Power. Also the illegal regging for donos when LRH said in his “Make Scientology do it policies”. Your second part is nothing but slimy character assassination which is no better than the DMbot position.

    What is great about these blogs is the open forum to tell one’s story and to question stuff. The Church doesn’t give us a place to do that. Basically a cut communication. LRH said Communication is the universal solvent and a lot of TA is occurring on these blogs. For that alone they are of value.

  140. Thought Provoking

    Perfect, Sam!

  141. Thought Provoking

    I like what you said. It holds true for me.

  142. Thought Provoking

    Good to know this – buyer beware, or should I say blogger beware!

  143. She is probably up at Twin peaks CST. And he can not divorce. That would damage his Mr. perfect status to the outside world.

  144. Mike Hobson


    Sorry, I mean the comment by “John Doe” to which I am replying in this comment.

    It has broken italics HTML markup pair.

    Michael A. Hobson

  145. Mike Hobson


    Be very careful with this kind of report. This whole matter could be a false flag OSA op – including the person making make the allegations.

    DM would love nothing better than to see you wrongfully shooting fellow Independents.

    Michael A. Hobson

  146. martyrathbun09

    Mike, Who am I shooting? I am stating the fact, I never asked these people to raise money for me. I’ll say it again: I never asked people to raise money for me; and I never saw any of it. Man, people are are touchy with the truth. Too many games and intrigues going on to my liking.

  147. I’m of the opinion that 2D suppression that occurs in the SO is just as abberative as out-2D.

    As well as Pain and Sex, I think Jokers and Degraders is being misapplied as a method of thought control. Not only are we supposed to feel guilty to rubbing one out once in a while, if we make a self-deprecating joke then we get a KR written up on us, or if we call an outpoints as we see them in the church we are CI to Source. I would love to hear that these two references are bogus.

  148. Michael A. Hobson


    I guess I’m not writing clearly. I’m sorry.

    I only meant that it should be confirmed that these named persons really did solicit money in your name.

    It is absolutely reprehensible, if they did.

    No, I don’t like all the games and intrigues, either.

    Michael A. Hobson

  149. O.K., understand. There WAS a cross country Org Eval that happened. The money / goods raised WAS used to support the Independent movment. I know that for a fact.

    I am only trying to find out if this was a gypsy (independent of Marty or any group) effort.

    I also wanted Marty to clarify this issue about hitting this forum for donations.
    Or if Marty was aware of this or directing this or knew anything about it.

    I asked for clarification.

    I did not say causes are NOT being supported with the resources.

    I do not want to be on a cross withold where I am not saying “just in case” for any reason.

    So, I said.

    I am not assuming Marty is directing this group in any capacity anymore.

    And I think it is clear because Marty has now established a donation button, that if I want to donate to Marty, there is a direct line.

    I did not think any of the cash or goods were going directly to Marty.

    I did think Marty was in the know or directing this group and their activities.


    And I don’t think there is anything the matter with my sorting these things out for myself.

    I don’t like “maybes”.

    Beyond all of that, the people mentioned are clearly dedicated to the cause and the movment.

    If the people are acting on their own initiative that is fine with me too.

    I just don’t want to be sitting around thinking Marty is some place he is not or directing people he is not or doing something he is not.

    And obviously I have been doing just that.

    Again, I only asked for clarification.

  150. martyrathbun09

    TO – good. So I think we have established I sent no one out on my behalf, but at the same time the folks you referred to were all acting above board and ethically.

  151. When in doubt, communicate.

    Why should I be stuck in a lower condition?

    I was in doubt. I communicated.

    Glad I am not wrong sourcing anyone.

    Yes, I know the people mentioned above were acting to help the cause.

    Now I know they were acting on their own initiative.

    It’s all good.

    My head matter to sort out.

    Thank you.

  152. Before reading the comments, I just have a little story. I was on my NED course in L.A. and had audited this cute young guy who was also training. We would drill together on different things. We were doing his drill for nerve assists and he commented to me that his girlfriend didn’t like his nerve assists too much.
    Come to find out…he was rubbing her in all the wrong places during the assist and he’d get all excited and never want to finish the assist to EP!
    Therefore, she does NOT think nerve assists work.
    I wonder why.

  153. Ralphi Milgram (?) used to do a fantastic 2-D seminar. I loved that guy and I think about him often. His seminar is where I first realized what that buzzz buzzz was and it damned sure wasn’t LOVE!

  154. Excellently perfect answer.

  155. Mockingbird6

    I went to his seminar too. His examples completely explained to me why I “pulled in” a certain 2D to “make up for the overts I caused on the person before!” That’s a mistake I don’t intend to make again.
    However, I do love the “buzz-buzz” and I think it is something we should causatively do with our current 2-D’s for fun.

  156. Mockingbird~After divorcing my 2D and 3D and moving away, I went to local to meet men. I had 2 lil girls, lived in the swamps and was entirely too hot to hang out in bars or meet someone based strictly on physical attraction. It was introverting as hell to have just about every male put the moves on me where I worked. I mean, that’s flattering for about a minute!
    They, of course, were strictly operating from that buzzified place. They didn’t know anything about me – nothing!
    I truly got internet dating down to an art. I got to know them first by their profile, then by our emails, then by telephone, then would meet at a public place for conversation in person (only if I’d qual’ed them to that point). I had a fantastic time with most men I went out with. I met some incredibly smart, interesting, creative men and went to concerts, plays, festivals, camps, movies, road trips…fantastic!
    I found my now husband online. His photo was really geeky but his profile and info interested me a bunch, so I contacted him. I followed my usual qual cycle and he made it to the final certification. 🙂
    So I married his ass to make sure he didn’t get away! (He actually proposed with the rock without me knowing ~ in the French Quarter!)
    In my list of quals, definitely the buzzzzzz was an important one! 10 years later we’ve still got it going on!!!! 🙂

  157. Well people, this 2d advice comes from me:

    Girls, when you are looking for a mate, you are looking for somebody’s Daddy. You are likely to make that guy somebody’s Daddy someday. How would you like for that guy to be your Daddy? Huh? That’s how to pick a guy.

    Guys. Chances are when you are looking for the “right one”, that is going to be someone’s mother someday. You will put some child in the position of having that woman for a mother. Is that someone you would want for your mother?

    That has worked just fine for me people.

  158. Good way to go and a good suggestion for my teenage girls.
    I’m not looking since I already found my Mr. Right! 🙂

  159. Fidelio,
    The Pain and Sex HCOB was definitely written by LRH. It came down to RTRC and was sent to Mimeo for issue. I wasn’t working in RTRC at that time but I believe others who are now out were.

  160. Thank you Dan for clarifying that.

    My very best, Fidelio

  161. Michael Varnsbury

    It seems to me presumptuous to accept that promiscuity is sourced in covert hostility without independent evidence. Is there a credible body of data from a scientific source to support this belief?

  162. Hi. This is a little off the topic, but I couldn’t help but notice that LRH wrote in 1965 that “1 has been done” in reference to “have the correct technology” in the KSW reference. An outpoint is that in the 1976 edition of handbook for preclears, Every axiom has after it a hyphen, whereas the new one has a colon. Also, many of the importances have been altered, such as by adding capitalizations, italics, and more divisions throughout the book. The reason that I bring this up is because If LRH wrote this tech and was such a mental expert, then he must have had his reasons for laying his work out the way that he did- and leaving it that way since 1951. I’m sure that there’s results possible with the new Handbook, but I myself went through it once or twice and didn’t get near the results that I’ve had from doing the ’76 edition up to only the third act. I actually display the tone antagonism, which I used to pretend, as well as my physical activity level and ability to hold my own viewpoint and communicate with others smoothly have already gone way up, and it’s only my third day. Here’s an Idea for anyone who’s having trouble understanding the concept of theta. In algebra, if you saw x, which represented space, you wouldn’t expect to be able to touch x, but you would expect to be able to use x to solve certain problems. Well, theta, the idea, is similar to x representing something. It is simply something which we haven’t been able to locate, but which LRH uses to represent the part of the organism which is ultimately in control, which we can’t touch or see, but which we can influence and rehabilitate, (or not). I’m sure there’s more to it than that, but I’m just kind of using that as a stable datum because the way one of my friends talks about it, you’d think that “theta” came in aerosol cans, but in fact, it’s as simple as LRH probably tried to locate the control center of men, but didn’t, but rather than give up there, he tried to influence it still and so came up with the word “theta”-from greek, of course, to be the “x” for this thing that he was rehabilitating, but couldn’t touch, see, etc. If anyone has additional material from LRH that you could direct us to, I know I’d be grateful.

  163. In my view, and in my own experience, NOTHING LRH wrote should be amended in any way. Even if “so called” developments are made, then the original statements should be retained in their proper place. Forgive the verbal, but did not LRH say words to the effect “I am not saying that you cannot find a quicker way, but don’t change what I have written as it is a definite route through”. I have been in CC London, confused and with aggravated mood on reading from the “Tech Dictionary” no less. I put my hand up, for help from the supervisor, and gues what – out of all the senses offered in explanation, the only one causing me problems was “BPL” ( Board Policy Letter), all the other senses were LRH. I am not OT but I have my own experiences that lead me to believe that LRH had the answer. That being the case, why are changes necessary. Get rid of the misunderstandings – yes, but otherwise leave well alone! That is my view.

    I no longer attend sevices in England and I am fed up with looking at such a brilliant man’s work being adversely publicised. I found reading this article a great help in reinstating my own Dynamics balance. Thank you!

  164. Very interesting post!

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