BBC Panorama – Important note from Veritas

John Travolta the “sweet and humble good guy” who, behind the scenes, repeatedly calls a reporter’s employer to bully presumably the guy getting fired — when Travolta is 100% familiar with the “tactics” used to essentially drive someone to lose their temper (entrapment?)

Check out the video preview in the upper right, they’ve put in the “button pushing” segment of the show! anyone who’s been through a Comm Course knows the tech — how it can be abused depends on the intention.

118 responses to “BBC Panorama – Important note from Veritas

  1. Mr Sweeny,

    You are forgiven for the outburst!
    That ain’t nothin’….

    Want to see a grown man sit in his car, in a parking lot, crying his eyes out moments after he figures out that he just got free from twenty years in a cult?

    Been there. Done that.

    The tech lives on but this Miscavige asshole is really pissing me off.

    Idle Org

  2. Ahh… Travolta. I hope it was a moment of bad judgment and you’ve gotten the koolaid out of your system.

    Looks like this show will be up to the usual high standards of the BBC. Mr. Sweeny showed class even in his outburst while TD showed himself to be a ahole but I’ll just bet that TD and DM were oh so proud of that exchange.

    Is that Psych exhibit where the LRH life history exhibit was located?

  3. Psych Museum of Terror is a mobile exhibit. It normally lives in the CCHR HQ on Sunset Blvd. in Los Angeles (to the best of my knowledge).

    Michael A. Hobson

  4. Tommy Davis is an errand boy, trained by grocery clerks.

    With apologies to Marlon Brando.


  5. The other side of button-pushing tech is not letting your buttons get pushed in the first place (TRO Bullbait). I am sure Marty and Mark assisted Mr. Sweeney with this and he won’t fall prey to church’s silly tactics again. As for Travolta, well, Karma’s a bitch. He’s having his own little problems with bad media these days. Looks like this upcoming BBC programme is going to be fantastic despite the best efforts of the button-pushers.

  6. Oh, and just to state the obvious, this button-pushing “tech” is another prime example of Reverse Scientology. Real Scientology DE-stimulates buttons and does not RE-stimulate them. Perhaps COB actually stands for Chairman of Button-pushing in the new Church of Button-pushing.

  7. Scott Campbell

    Interesting to see how embarrassed Sweeney still is at having lost his temper during that encounter with Tommy Davis.

    I’d say that a bit of this classic British humility and civility would go a long way toward bringing about understanding in any peoples.

    No wonder LRH had such affinity for the Brits.

    “Keep your temper”

    An interesting and meaningful phrase indeed.

  8. THAT was a nummy treat with warm fuzzies all over.

    Great job you three.

  9. What is it with the gum chewing that both Mike and Tommy had in several of the clips shown from 2007? It is highly annoying and just looks plain stupid on the part of the church reps doing this. Who’s idea was this? when I saw the video then when I was in the church I thought the same thing as I do today.

    It is driving me crazy, and my buttons are getting pushed!

  10. Cat Daddy, since this has been carried over, I’m replying to your comment here. You wrote: “What’s most interesting is that any Anon who has been on the Internet knows about trolling, and how to drive people into anger ;)”

    True. It’s a relatively common “skill” to taunt someone into anger — with at least one distinguishing difference I can see: Using a technology of healing for it’s exact opposite is unethical. I liken the Auditor’s Code to the Hippocratic Oath, the oath taken by those of the healing profession (doctors) swearing to use their skills ethically.

    There’s enough power in truth itself IMHO that I don’t see the need for kicking someone below the belt to win. Every person has weaknesses and has erred — a person’s past mistakes do not define them. However, to purport to be a Professional healer then use “trade secrets” to destroy enemies, real and imagined, is not only self-defeating, its an admission of total lack of faith and knowledge in the truths one professes to be “selling.”

    At least trolls live under bridges;) Those trying to SELL bridges to enlightenment should be willing to WALK that bridge themselves.

    I find the treachery and lack of good faith of the Organization’s relationship with humanity and society under the pretense of “help” absolutely despicable. This bit about John Travolta surprised me and is another disappointment; it bashed a last little vestige of hope I held for some still “in.”

  11. I find Mr. Sweeney’s humor elegant and delightful…for example, his reference to the incident resulting in giving the Organization a dream PR gift from outerspace (paraphrase)…can you imagine? LOL Tommy Davis with his cold, calculating agenda, slamming the button over and over (the footage is chilling) thinking people are too stupid to see what he’s really doing. When they drove an open-hearted soul with sensibility such as the likes of Mr. Sweeney to spontaneous, honest anger, Davis and his boss were probably gleeful beyond their wildest dreams of the “Black PR” they had garnered. But…ooopss…I guess people aren’t all that stupid. Amusing and pitiful in the spotlight.

  12. JT would be wiser to stay away from Dear Leader. The last project he was persuaded to do turned out to be one of the worst films for his career as an actor. TC’s acting career has also taken for the worst since being unnaturally close to Dear Leader. Perhaps these two actors should pay heed to their PTS/SP tech they studied and apply their material.

  13. Panorama program airs local time in London (British Summer Time, +1): Tuesday, 28 September 2010, 21:00:00

    Local US Timezone Times:
    * West Coast (Pacific Daylight Time): 1pm
    * Mountain (Mountain Daylight Time): 2pm
    * Central (Central Daylight Time): 3pm
    * East Coast (Eastern Daylight Time): 4pm

  14. I think I made a mistake if I considered anyone in the church an enemy.
    A year ago I would have supported JT in his effort with the BBC. I probably would have emailed the BBC or wrote comments on their page saying Sweeney was a biased hack.

    I think just getting the truth out, talking to people and keeping your TR’s in is what is needed. I don’t think we are at war. We are theta beings correcting the scene and freeing people from lies by disseminating truth.
    The people who created the lies only have power from the lies. So why even lock horns with them when the only power and control they have is from the house of cards of lies they built.

    I’m looking forward to the show tommorow. I’ve been telling people about it. I’m hoping it’s going to be a good dissemination piece for Scientology/Church of Scientology differentation.

  15. Talk about pushing buttons. This sounds like David Miscavige.
    “I give the orders! Do you understand!”…”That is the first intelligent thing you’ve said yet!”…”Ratbrain!”…”I am a psychlo of my word.”….

    AUDIO of Terl – “button pushing” at this link

    (I ran across this website from Craigslist.)

  16. Being an ex smoker myself, I would guess that they are chewing Nicorette which is a nicotine substitute in the form of gum. A lot of Scientologists smoked but when you can’t smoke you can replace it with the nicotine gum. I have noticed myself in videos chewing the gum and your right it looks stupid. I am reading a book now called the easy way to stop smoking to rid myself of this dreadful habit of chewing nicotine gum.
    So it’s either what I suspect above or maybe they just like regular chewing gum but it does detract from ones beingness IMHO.

  17. I don’t get the BBC station here in Pasadena, CA. Will this be posted to You Tube after the show so that I can watch it that way or is there some other way I can watch it. I tried to download the BBC Player but it does not work in the US.

  18. Whoa.. the whole thing is a bit surreal. Seeing Marty and especially Mike in that video after watching numerous CofS events over the years… Life is anything but boring. Remember, remember the 28 of September.

  19. It’s interesting that a Sunday article on UK media covering Lisa Marie even gives a plug for the upcoming BBC program.

    …”O n Tuesday the debate about how the church conducts itself will explode when the BBC’s Panorama reveals the results of a lengthy probe by investigative reporter John Sweeney.

    “Already the Scientology hierarchy is lining up PR firms and lawyers to scrutinise every word uttered by Mr Sweeney, having crossed swords with him three years ago. In memorable scenes, Sweeney lost his temper with the organisation’s Tommy Davis, son of actress Anne Archer.

    “Mr Davis is well known to Lisa Marie as he works closely with scores of US stars.

    “It’s possible he may even ask if she’d release a statement in support of the poor, put-upon souls treated so mercilessly by Mr Sweeney.

    “A Panorama Special: Secrets Of Scientology, Tuesday, BBC1 at 9pm. ”

  20. I’m sure Mike cringes when he watches himself in some of these 2007 confrontations with Sweeney.

    As I’m sure (or at least I hope) Tommy Davis will one day too …

  21. Your humble servant

    Yes, I certainly hope it does make that differentiation. I haven’t really seen it so far in the lead ins. The subject Scientology is taking its lumps right along with the current, official organization known as the Church of Scientology, and right along with DM. It will be very hard for the uninformed public to tell the difference. Still, it is a necesary cleansing. The entire subject of Scientology is already in broad public disrepute, sad to say, IMHO. The history of abuses has apparently been so bad and so widespread that even some who dedicated their lives to it for 20 or 30 years now believe it is a bum subject. Others have a kinder and more enlightened view, having experienced personal realities on the profound philosophical truths that Ron unearthed in the subject, and having experienced fabulous personal wins. Never fear, once the abuses are gone, the goodness of the subject will reassert itself.

    Concerning the angry exchange, there is nothing wrong with open expression of honest anger. Our suppressed society needs more of that, don’t you think? Of course, Tommy Davis, weasel that he is and has been trained to be, was not honestly angry at all but was just play acting to accomplish a purpose. This would be the same type of tactic used by seniors to intimidate juniors and enforce compliance in the Sea Org, if reports are to be believed. I even had it pulled on me, a public person, by a Flag executive many years ago. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that DM himself started and spread the culture in the SO of intimidating people by shouting at them. It is an insane culture which has no place among civilized people. It’s one of the abuses that needs to stop.

  22. I dont think you will have any trouble finding it on Youtube.
    I dont know how, but part of it is already on there.

  23. Actually, what freaks me out is how incredibly thin Mike was in the 2007 program with John Sweeney and Tommy Davis. Knowing now where he was just before those events, I’ve got a lot more appreciation for the hell some of you guys went through. The comparison of Mike’s appearance in 2007 and 2010 is very, very telling.

    Just Me

  24. I never really got how Sweeney yelling was such a huge “PR win” for the church. Sweeney still seems ashamed that he raised his voice.
    Maybe because he’s English or something. I mean, Tommy Davis was in his face yelling at him and he gets a little upset- so what.

  25. I have to admit, this is very interesting. Sweeney is a ballsy mofo for going back in and revisiting the dragon. The Theta-MEST theory at work.

    And, I find it very interesting that Marty and Mike are now the REAL spokesmen of Scientology.

  26. . The comparison of Mike’s appearance in 2007 and 2010 is very, very telling.

    I noticed that, too, Just Me. Both Marty and Mike look radiant now.

  27. Overall, I agree with you. On the other hand, I totally understand why an ex-staff member would be bitter about the experience.

    As for being a good identifier for the difference between the Independents and the CofM, this is an amazing coup for true Scientology. Amazing.

    My strategy is dual:

    1. Expose, expose, expose. Shine the light on the usurpers. Disinfect.

    2. Keep Calm and Carry On.

    DM and crew can only be evil and act stupidly for only so long.

  28. Even Dear Leader, OSA and those and Freedumb are promoting the show!

  29. Marty,
    Heads up, Freedom Mag has put up a new piece on the BBC and yourself, Mike and others. Letting you know in case you were not aware of it.

    [i]Desperate Lies of the BBC
    “Reporter” John Sweeney, pilloried on YouTube as the “exploding tomato,” proves once again that you can lead him to the truth, but you can’t make him think. Watch the investigative video report.[/i]

  30. On the other hand, losing his temper probably brought him more attention than anything else he has ever done. Like they say, no publicity is bad publicity. I cannot help but laugh every time I see that clip. But I don’t hold it against him.

    In case you have not seen it, there’s a counter documentary that is on the Freedom Magazine site – I haven’t had a chance to watch the whole thing. Just found it there.

  31. Actually, that’s a blatant lie and misrepresentation by “Freedom” magazine. John Sweeney himself calls the incident provoked by Tommy Davis & Gang his “imitation of an exploding tomato.” M.r Sweeney’s self effacement is witty and endearing… and such a contrast to the vitriolic false characterization of “Freedom” that speaks in generalities, as if “all of youtube” was saying it. Please. Give brilliant credit where it’s due!

  32. See, here is where Mr. Sweeney himself came up with the wit of an exploding tomato:

  33. LOL

    Tommy Davis: “No, no, no. I don’t understand the nature of you.”

    Correct. Oh, and btw, Tommy Davis

    Mr. Davis #EPIC FAIL #FLUNK on TR2. The failed TR2 that perpetuated an unacknowledged communication globally.

    P.S. Mr. Sweeney, you were absolutely correct and unacknowledged. Tommy Davis was not there at the beginning of the interview.

    Oh, life could be so much more simple.

  34. I hope the special mentions the real purpose of TRs and that management is perverting that; that this isn’t Scn, but it’s being used in this way by DM and his minions.

  35. Gee, the same technique is used in ethics sessions 🙂

  36. I think John Travolta is probably a good guy and probably believes he’s protecting the church from a media attack. Didn’t we all feel that way at one time? In that mindset it would have been an overt to do otherwise than try to get the show cancelled. He’s PTS like the rest of them. The problem is how to wake him up. Maybe he’s insulated from the entheta, I don’t know. Perhaps someone could hand him a letter at a public appearance, like a movie premier. Something validative and not make-wrong, but explaining the situation, and directing him to this site or Friends of LRH.

  37. There is only the teaser on YouTube. You can’t watch the BBC channel on YouTube only from the UK. So outside the UK there is no possibility to watch the program.

  38. I have 2 of these “Talking Terl” toys. They are about 1 foot tall and the audio rotates through all the phrases…

    Still waiting for them to become “collector’s items”….. 🙂

  39. Freedumb mag is apparently our best friend and CoS’ own worst enemy now? Are scientologists being encouraged to actually watch the show? It looks like Dear Leader is “going with the flow”, knowing that scientologists cannot be prevented from watching it in spite of the “command intention” that they avoid “entheta” like the plague….

    A big “Flunk” of the bullbait goes to DM and his minions…. maybe that’s why they’re called “flunkies”? Their TR0 is totally out.

  40. One thing is for sure: you can take the same footage, rearrange and edit it and you make two contradictory versions out of it.

    While still in the c of m, I saw the counter to the first Panorama report (mind you, as a good church boy, I would ONLY see the response, not the Panorama report itself – LOL). Now the c of m has “advanced technology” and produced an “advanced counter” even before the new Panorama show has aired (link has been posted in earlier comments already).

    Watching it is doubly interesting in that there are several parts in this “advanced” counter video that have already been posted and discussed (much) earlier on this blog and elsewhere (Marty going to jail, Mike and family clashing in Clearwater, Mike trying to see his son at the Fort Harrison, Amy covers in her book what her sex “crimes” were and how these have been misused and twisted – samples off the top of my hat).

    If you pause the video often enough (because some documents show too briefly to actually read them) you can read the guidelines and standards for British journalists which the “unbiased” voice refers to and which it says have been violated by Sweeney. I don’t think it requires a lengthy study to see that each one of these rules of conduct have been violated by the producers of this very “advanced response video”.

    I don’t consider Sweeney a saint either. Him asking introverting questions (shouting from behind a crowd “Is Scientology a sinister and evil cult?”, in an interview at CC Int (paraphrased) “Are you brainwashed?”) is not good manners IMO and not “unbiased” either. It is as much a “tech” to get “hot” or “interesting” responses on camera as is intentionally dirtying someone’s needle (cutting someone’s comm, pushing buttons to upset).

    However, there has been a “war” going on for decades now and mud has been thrown both ways. Question is, who’s going to come clean first.

    This blog has some incredible stories of reconciliation on record with former friends and enemies apologizing and becoming friends (or becoming friends once again) despite earlier wrong doings on both sides. Neither caring too much what happened, simply happy to (again) have the other.

    I believe, aside from the proverbial “anyone has some black spots in his past”, that it is nearly impossible for having been on staff and particularly in the SO to NOT have behaved in a manner and done things for which he/she feels ashamed of. Not, if one has survived this environment for some decent length of time. And many on this blog, including myself, count this time in decades.

    And I believe too, that anyone who has sorted things out with “opponents” afterward (family, friends, etc.) who ALSO have behaved wrongly in the past regarding the same subject, will have noticed that they too change their views and behavior once the truth is presented and wrong is called wrong and a past lie has been admitted. The positiveness of these responses can be quite amazing, in my experience.

    That frank, direct and honest communication DOES lead to understanding is plainly visible even in the short video on Mike and Marty explaining to Sweeney what button pushing is. Doesn’t Sweeney appear relaxed and in comm too? I wouldn’t be surprised if his views on Scientology would also (have) chang(ed) . In fact, I would, if it wouldn’t be the case (let the process continue, for it would be naive to believe it is complete).

    In resolving a fight, people often try to end it in a way to not “lose face”. However, to actually end it, someone has to put down the sword.

    Who’s the the mightier warrior?
    The one who puts it down first or last?

    I believe you know who I regard the stronger.


  41. Short note on John Travolta”s involvement:

    I actually never shared the (at least publicized) view as to how great a Scientologist JT was and how much of a positive public figure he was for Scientology.

    To me he was always kind of “evasive”.

    To learn about his behind the scene actions was surprising as well as not surprising at the same time. Despicable, in any event.

  42. On the PTS-ness of Travolta as mentioned above:
    There are just too many facts for every Scientologists to wake up. Especially for those celebrities. They should raise their voice. There is no excuse for Scientologists not to do this. Only reason if they are brainwashed and fearing their 1st dynamic go up the Bridge. Go up to actually where, anyway?

    Why would it be an offense to be asked if you are brainwashed if you are not? If there is no overt or withold there is no ARC break either.
    “No, I am not brainwashed” or “why do you ask this silly question” – said calmly – would be some possible correct answers. Actually going upset from this shows the proof that 1) the person is really brainwashed AND 2) knows about it, so 3) it happened with her agreement (Kirsty Alley).

    “Look what Sweeney does with our people. He ARC breaks them.” Hahaha

  43. And look, the Mirror does not link Freedom mag. But says:

    “Mike Rinder used to be official spokesman for the church and now explains to John that it was no accident he lost his rag – the church’s heavies had been goading him to do just that.

    As Rinder reveals more of the cult’s tricks, he and Sweeney are followed by strangers in 4x4s. And this time there’s no suggestion they’re just being paranoid.”

  44. If I may chime in…
    The name “dear leader” is far too endearing in my books for David Miscavige, he IS NOT a leader, he is going to show the true demise of Scientology.
    Perhaps there is another ‘UN-dearing term for this nutjob?
    Leader, he is NOT!

  45. Just bite the bullet and take your 4 days of misery. The more you Q&A with it the longer you drag that misery out. Just get it done, you will be glad you did. Nor is it really that terrible … there are a few moments of intense frustration, but they come and go. It will pass. Stay well hydrated, take your vitamins, and allow yourself a few sweets. You will be fine.


  46. “BBC – the world is listening !”

    ( classic BBC jingle )

  47. Re Travolta :

    Many years ago there was a ceremony when he received a “freedom medal” or a similar recognition.

    During his speech he expressed his gratefulness – and he started to cry.

    This looked extremely artificial to me. I found it disgusting even then, still being a fervent believer.

  48. I remember, remember alright thank you very much indeed. I also remember remember Admiral Nelsons birthday 29th September-tommorrow-. Somehow he reminds me of LRH. I do’nt know why.

    The Many Faces Of

  49. My wife bought one on sale. My son, who was 2 years old at the time, really liked pushing that button. Rat brain!

  50. crashingupwards

    Samuel, like you I never considered Travolta as a great scientologist. He might be a good or great actor and he just happens to be a scientologist. The church’s focus on wealth and status would position him and Cruise as great scientologists as they equate wealth with beingness and it works for PR purposes.
    Travolta and Cruise were always given VIP treatment, always. Always handled by the best auditors and handlers over any tech upset or 3p on their lines. Thats one thing thats kept them in the fold. Confessional data would be another. Both know the church will spin on them in a heartbeat if needed. Travolta making a call to the BBC is the same call any one of us would have made while still “in”. Its understandable.
    I actually feel Travolta knows a lot isnt right with the organization and he does not go out of his way to promote scientology. Interviews with him over scientology do not appear to be at his request. I think that aligns up with your “evasive” impression of him. But lets face it, he HAS benefitted greatly on a personal level from the tech. We know it, he knows it.
    He is likable and his involvment with scientology has done a lot more over the years to give credibility to the subject than Cruises involvement ever has. And honestly, they have had the best auditing and treatment available. No musters, sleep deprivation, rice and beans, RPF’s. If they ever leave scientology is will be over pride and possibly conscience. Because they have always been afforded the best. Its more likely they will go silent and fade away than ever leave.

  51. DFB,
    It’s called “a viewpoint shift” and that’s good.

  52. V=Victory=Vampire Ship.

    Gunner on the Vampire Vessel

  53. Thank you for the link. I watched the video and I think that John Sweeney really did have an agenda. Asking “what if Scientology is really a brainwashing cult? What if it is a con?” is rude. Heber Jentsch used to handle such situations with false data stripping. He was very good, and showed how this can easily be done through conversation. The other person doesn’t notice it, and the false data falls away and the reporter is now in a frame of mind to do a fair story. He did it with Larry King, Phil Donohue, and many others. Why didn’t Tommy Davis do this? It seems like Tommy is Mr. Glutz PR himself, the best friend of church critics.

    I did find it curious that a man with plenty of grey hair was Tommy Davis’ “underling”. That was certainly not explained adequately. The personal attacks on various people involved in the program were unsubstantiated and illogical, and illustrated church tactics that most people would consider creepy. However, the Freedom mag video does contain a grain of truth.

  54. Exactly! Tommy Davis exhibits thought-stopping in action.

  55. I’ve always been a big fan of Vinnie Barbarino. Give him a break. His arm was being twisted to do those things. Besides, his heart has been ripped out. Let’s leave him alone to grieve.

  56. Someone I know had dinner one time with Hugh Jackman. Hugh was speaking about the difference between Tom Cruise and John Travolta. He said TC would tell Hugh that he really should read a book about Scientology and try it out. Whereas, JT apparently told Hugh – you don’t need Scientology.

  57. The Church has already gotten their response to BBC Panorama’s show onto

    It is very very sick. Especially when you see how they use Mike Rinder and his son’s illness, and his family, against him.

    I am very sorry, Mike. This is unconscionable.

    DM has to go. This guy is a scourge on humanity and can not be allowed to walk around free for one more day.

    After seeing that show, I get it.

    The target is DM.

  58. Regarding JT, anyone who knows him will observe that he is one of the nicest people you could meet. Oddly his first official appearance in cinema is in a moving called “The Devil’s Rain” about satanic ritual. It oddly stars prominent actors although it is a rank b movie including Shatner, Ida Lupino, Ernest Borgnine and Eddie Albert. The movie credits say “Introducing John Travolta” but you can’t even tell the character is him. One wonders who the agent or “pimp” is who got him this role as his intro to Cinematic Hollywood. If you study the pattern of Hollywood and satanic movies, it has been stated that Jesus movies make a lot of money but satanic ones do not. Then why do they produce them?
    JT is a very good actor. He is excellent at pretending and he loves to play. He can slip valences very easily. He appears to be very out of valence but also capable of switching valences and his nice guy valence is very endearing to so many. Per XDN tech, valences are connected to an evil purpose. How deep does the evil go? These are questions, not assertions I am making.
    This is hauntingly similar to TC in “Eyes Wide Shut” which is another film based upon satanic ritual although they soften it to more of a “sex club”. There are those who swear that Stanley Kubrick was killed for “exposing” how the elite of society work but if Kubrick was killed, it would make more sense that he was made to be the sacrifice in the satanic ritual. In other words, the real ritual is disguised by having him make a movie.
    All this comes to the point of whether TC and JT, who are quite capable of being charming and lovely…..they could sit next to you at a sporting event or concert and pull off acting like your best friend….suffer from Multiple Personality Disorder with an antisocial personality that is V-E-R-Y subdued. TC’s, however, comes out when he laughs with sadistic overtones that makes him the target of impersonators.
    I don’t think it is too far a leap for most of you to conceive that these two celebrities might be prone to this sort of influence, but I think it would be far harder for most of you, especially those of you who were around him, that DM is a part of satanic ritual. It doesn’t SEEM that he would have time. Your comments and originations on this would be interesting. Evil has to remain very well hidden for it to survive and have influence.

  59. Martin Padfield

    I agree. The more I see/hear of Sweeney the more I like him. He was just on the Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show (5 – 6 million listeners daily) apologising again for the outburst saying people should be civil and courteous. He said broadly people were sympathetic about the (2007) incident. Vine asked him if he was pressured from the Church while doing his latest piece. His response: he’s been to war zones such as Chechnya and confronted some bad, bad outfits, but “they [The Church/OSA/PIs] were on my case like nothing in my life” The programme cut to a clip of the Mike Rinder interview saying that Sweeney definitely HAD been followed, he was not being paranoid as Tommy Davies was trying to make out. Vine asked Sweeney what the appeal was in Scn. He replied that celebs said it worked for them, then it cut to clips of LA churchies giving their wins. Then I was called to go on air, and put the case for Indies, and made the point that Scientology is NOT the church and one can be a scientologist without subscribing to the cult mentality. Vine asked me about abuses so I kept to my first-hand experience without embellishment so as not to give OSA fodder. Interestingly, there NO Church reps speaking, no one from OSA and no churchies put through on the phone.

  60. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the update Martin.

  61. Did Rinder ever do lower conditions over his attempt to send Sweeney into a psychotic break? I think we should see his write-up. As for Tommy, I think it’s a little too late.

  62. This was quite chilling, to see the cold, calculated use of Scientology tech in a coordinated effort to deliberately get someone upset and cave them in. All for the greater good, of course. It’s like a doctor using his understanding of the human body to ruin the health of someone critical of the AMA.

  63. Joy,
    He’s not my leader and is not “dear”. It is used from the following definition from Wiki:
    “Kim Jong-il (also written as Kim Jong Il, Korean: 김정일, Hanja: 金正日; born 16 February 1941) is the de facto leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (most commonly known as North Korea);” …
    …”He is also referred to as the “Dear Leader,” “our Father,” “the General”, and “Generalissimo.”…

    Dear Leader is the supreme dictator and songs are sung about him in the starving country.

  64. Wow, Dean , that’s quite a stretch. You must have inside info to come up with that.

    Nonetheless, I respect you for taking your due (by policy) vacation every year, no matter what.

    That took (at least) a set of nuts.

  65. Umm… lets see – sociopathic, case in full restimulation, running reverse Scientology over a long duration. I like “Bushy Tailed Judas”, “Corn Cob”, “Miss Cabbage”. Lots of people refer to Hitler as “Der Fuehrer”, so the term “Dear Leader” is used in the same spirit. Except that Hitler had some redeeming qualities.

  66. I think “Dear Leader” refers to this guy …

    It’s anything but complimenting.

    He’s referred to as “Dear Leader” while actually being a butcher of freedom and human rights.

  67. JT’s Scientology is no way the same Scientology the regular Joe gets.
    Are his sessions recorded on video for scrutiny? Does DM C/S him? Did he have to re-do his training for GAT? Did he get declared Un-Clear?
    Anybody know?

  68. Samuel

    Are you referring Travolta’s involvement with trying to get the current Panorama canned? I am still trying to find a report of this from a source other than comments on this blog. I am not defending him nor would I be especially surprised that he could be manipulated to do such a thing given the importance of public perception in his life and the fact that dm probably has everything in his pc folders on a little thumb drive tucked where the sun don’t shine. But I have also followed the events in this man’s life over the past year or 18 months, and I’m pretty sure that he could go either way; he could be completely dave’s boy or he could have finally had enough of the church management he has never liked (per his quote from the 80’s).

    Anyway, if you could point me to an actual report other than on the 2007 event I would very much appreciate it. Thanks.


  69. Most artists are bi-polar (PTS).

    Therefore, using them as “representatives’ for Scientology is fraught with danger and error.

    Witness….Kirstie Alley (Fat Actress)…..the gay John Travolta…..the glib nut Tom Cruise.

    Also, artists are TYPICALLY not auditors, so their knowledge of Scientology is highly subjective, depending on how they “feel” at the examiner.

  70. Oh this is a fun rabbit hole to go down. I will now don my tin foil hat. Jordan Maxwell insists that Satan worship and ritual human sacrifice certainly happens in Hollywood, particularly in Laurel Canyon. Plus, there is a connection with reptile aliens. Certainly there could be a concerted effort to suppress the technology of freeing beings. It could be that when LRH said that the real history of Earth is unbelievable, he wasn’t just referring to stuff way back the track.

  71. Joy,

    “Dear Leader” is used with serious and severe sarcasm and quite obviously so, I should think.

    Michael A. Hobson

  72. Bob-

    You wrote, “I think we should see his write-up.”

    Who’s we?


  73. Excuse me, but you seem to have a big M/U on “valence”.

    Beingnesses that one knowingly and willing creates and can knowingly and willingly adopt or discard (as any really good actor can and does) are not valences in the Scientology meaning of the word.

    Michael A. Hobson

  74. What that thar video is is some expert apologetics.

    Apologetics is the delusional theological art of spinning falsehoods and psudo-science into what appears to be a legitimate answer to absolutely irrefutable claims to keep followers giving, obeying and believing.

    CHRISTIAN EXAMPLE: There is no way Noah’s Ark could hold two of every animal. So creationist apologists use a convenient evolutionary model to get around the grade school addition of Ark capacity by saying that species varied AFTER the ark.

    So they accept evolution on one hand while rejecting it on the other.

    When it comes to such issues, it is pretty easy to see through even the most creative of pseudo-science.

    The goal of apologetics is not to prove, but to create enough doubt in the irrefutable claims through cognitive distortions and logical fallacies that are cleverly made to look like real, researched sense.

    Religious apologetics play to win but will happily accept a stalemate. It encourages all the black pieces to stay on the black side of the chess board and the white pieces to stay on the white side of the board. It seeks to keep the game viable and the same pieces in place. You can be captured, but don’t you dare change colors!

    I personally prefer plaid.

  75. This bogus trailer kinda fits.

  76. It has just occurred to me that reading any article in “Freedom” mag presently is enturbulating due to its malicious twist of ALL information. All that is written in it would therefore be an alter-isness. All the attacks on anybody who speaks out against David Miscavige or the current practices of Scientology are intentionally twisted to result in the reader being enturbulated. Even the “good” articles about good works being done by dedicated and sincere people are twisted. That is how a Scientologist struggling with finding the truth in all this mess is kept enturbulated so they will wrong target and name the wrong source of the upset. That is why it could take someone like me a few decades to “see” the correct source of the entheta as I would discount the perception when I did see it accurately. There is, of course, the use of Reverse Scientology and Dianetics to make the mix even more lethal to a good being whose first impulse is to blame self for having doubts. The evilness of such a regime, being done with the subject of Scientology and to its adherents is mind-boggling. Simply SP/PTS, but to a truly diabolical level.

    To use a very apt description written by Veritas, it generates “a white hot rage” deep in my beingness as I am sure it does with others. Fortunately, a white hot rage is cleansing because I am sickened to the bottom of my soul by what has been made of the life’s work of such a man as LRH. Again, it is fortunate that the truth will out and all will come right in the end, no matter how unpleasant it is to go through now.

    John Sweeney is a good man, I have respect for him and appreciate what he is doing to help clean up the mess of what the C of S has become. That he does so without malice in his heart is truly amazing considering how badly he has been treated by the whim and malice of David Miscavige. And, he keeps his sense of humor, too! His is a much more appealing and believable presence than the evil valence of Tommy Davis.

    Marty, Mike and all others who have made this BBC program possible…thank you.

    SCOTT CAMPBELL!! What a nice surprise so find that Ne is you. I am so happy to see and know that you are well, happy and free. Those were quite the days weren’t they? There is something I would like to discuss with you, would you please contact me directly at when you can.


  77. I remember very well when the Time article came out and how CofM handled it by taking quotes out of context…the pattern remains the same.
    This had me LOL because it’s so whacked and looks like an outright ATTACK on Sweeney. How this is supposed to handle anything is beyond me.

  78. Mr. Sweeney demonstrates a very high level of confront. As an investigative reporter he needs it. That he could get angry, lose it, and then confront it with a public apology shows a being in relatively good shape. He is not stuck in a tone of anger or hatred as, from all accounts, dm is.

    Many posters have pointed to LRH’s outbursts of anger as the source of the aberration that is destroying the church. The difference that these posters don’t get or won’t admit is that LRH was not stuck in that anger tone and in that destructive valence. He could act correctly, he could err, but I do not doubt that he would act quickly, and with compassion, to correct a situation. The tech is (was, under LRH) simply too positively progressive for any other explanation than that LRH worked for the betterment of man and a more workable bridge.

    DM is stuck at the anger/hatred band. That is a destructive band. He has manufactured a valence around that band and has attempted to get his exec structure to adopt that valence and propagate it downwards on all channels. He demands his juniors commit overts of violence against others to aberrate them and lock them into this valence. To my knowledge, nobody has ever accused LRH of asking, demanding or coercing a junior to commit violence on another. If LRH made an error, it was probably in not writing a policy titled “Do As I Say, Don’t Do As I Occasionally Aberratively Do” *tongue in cheek*, and ordering a good dose of grade 4 on anyone working with him.

    The model for behavior is well laid out in tech and policy. It is the “monkey see, monkey do” mindset, adopted freely or coerced into existence, that has promoted the creation of the ser-facs and degraded behavior that we witness today.

    LRH was a genius. He must have encountered unspeakable quantities of charge while charting the path out. My personal experience is that even the charge encountered at lower levels can cause rage, when triggered, and will continue to do so until fully handled. If he dramatized some aberration while trying to sort out the root of aberration – as ONLY his genius has ever EFFECTIVELY done and CODIFIED – then IMHO just cut him some slack. We wouldn’t have a workable tech without him. The best path is to simply do as he SAID: study the tech, apply it to full duplication, and then make a judgement about it.

    One element of the tech particularly germane to the aspect of anger in communication is the use of a tone level to get a communication across. The tone of the communicator must be within a narrow range of the person being communicated to. When anger is used to “impinge”, then communication may fail. An sane order given to a junior may have to be given with impingement, but when anger becomes the stuck level for impingement, then obnosis is out and aberration is in.

    LRH wasn’t stuck on the tone scale. We must be able to confront all the implications of that, and at the same time keep all the implications in perspective. When we can do that we will be able to speed progress into the future and properly handle current and future aberrations.


  79. Vampire On The Ship

    LRH worked for the betterment of man and a more workable bridge for mankind. And with that Sir and in anticipation of a former birthday. we salute to you:

    Vampire On The Ship

  80. Look at the subtleties concerning valences and beingness and see what else can come in between. It can be pretty complex and TC and JT are ever so complex. They are both adept at changing beingness but where do valences and other factors come into play. That is the point. Shape-shfting reptilians and the like and promoting that line is not what you will typically hear from SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse) victims. That stuff is propaganda. Anton LaVey is said to have served as a technical consultant on that movie and while he is not the be and end all of SRA, etc. this is a thread which should be recognized and related to with facts if possible.

  81. Well, I guess we’ll never see it then.
    Woe is me.

  82. Complex Question Fallacy:

    You haven’t established there was an attempt to “send Sweeney into a psychotic break”. All I see is a “Dirty Their Needle” drill and a moderate ARC-Break from all that plus the Wrong Item of “you are a bigot”.

    Furthermore, if there were a Lower Condition in play, it’s between Rinder and Sweeney, who presently seems more than satisfied that Rinder has “made up the damage”.

    Conditions formulas are a set of actions that are to be done, not a “write-up” on a piece of paper.

    Michael A. Hobson

  83. Tara,
    While back I came across Travolta at Flag. He had a full time top exec personally escort him everyplace. He came out by the pool and sat a couple of feet from me, we looked at each other and I nodded but said nothing, he looked at me for a few seconds, didn’t nod back and turned to speak to a cherub little boy in the pool for a few seconds who stood there gap-jawed in awe of Travolta.

    He had a personally assigned full-time one way flow twin.

    Church staff brought his car up to the front of the courseroom for him so he could get in and drive off when he came out.

    This little bit I saw told me he was getting red carpet treatment, elevated beyond regular parishioners. This was quite a while ago so I would imagine his treatment is even more red carpet now, especially at CC or Int.

    From what I’ve heard and read by and about ‘superstars’, they don’t feel comfortable around ‘regular’ people.

  84. David from England

    Just saw the program. All of the ex-members came across as honest and poorly treated. It was valuable that Sweeney allowed them to make the point (where desired) that they were still scientologists, just not Church members any more.

    The Space Opera section was interesting – I know how many Independent Scientologists feel pain when this is mocked, and I can understand that. And I do think that a Church is entitled to ‘secret scriptures’. Nevertheless, the Church has handled the OT3 material in a typically dishonest way and the response of Tommy Davis just showed what a glib liar he is.

    It is unfortunate that the Church’s heavy-handedness with crtics and disaffected members means it highly unlikely that any hitherto unaware person watching this will want to investigate LRH’s work further. That, perhaps, will have to wait until the Church has been thoroughly discredited. For every ‘Beginners Guide to LRH’ there’s likley to be 100 Panoramas.

    Nevertheless, congratulations to Mike and Marty and the others – you came out of this looking very impressive in what is a sad sad tale.

  85. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for that perspective David. I think it was rather pointless; same old, same old almost. I’ll post my views when I get the chance.

  86. “Most artists are bi-polar (PTS).” Seems you are some kind of artist yourself OT VIII

  87. You are restimulated , go do a locational on yourself. I have some suggestions.

  88. Yes bullbaiting was instantanously recognized as IRL trolling by aAnons.

  89. Let’s extend the list:
    _ Der Lowness
    _ Captain Vampire
    _ Missed-Er Alter-issage
    _ His Leechness
    _ Commander Kool-Aid
    _ Your Midgetness
    _ The Great Pretender
    _ His Royal Dwarfness
    _ His Dwindling Hine-Ass
    _ Count Vamp-Hair
    _ Chairman of Ruin Technology Carefully
    _ Charlatan of the Reverse Technology Crusade
    _ Emperor of the Amway Jonestown Coven of Money

    Note to Marty: I know this is silly, I’m just having fun. Delete it if you want. No offense. 🙂

  90. I haven’t seen the full BBC presentation yet, but I watched the posted clips and heard the audio and also watched the church’s rebuttal videos. The church did a does have a better rebuttal/smear this time. Less hokey.

    I hope the hell Sweeney zeroes in on Miscavige’s abuse factors, instead of the same old, “some say it’s a brainwashed cult”.

    Second, I hope someone hatted him up on not doing stuff that can be used against him, such as yelling accusations from a crowd of people at Travolta while he’s on a movie promo campaign. That’s completely stupid and just makes Sweeney look abusive and tabloid-like, as the church accuses him of and in that case, they’re correct.

  91. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Clearly, TR’s were not in. But even without the TR’s, there’s still very old “anger tech”, and wisdom about keeping one’s temper …

    “When angry, count ten before you speak; if very angry, a hundred.” – Thomas Jefferson

    “Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame.” – Benjamin Franklin

    “Speak when you are angry–and you will make the best speech you’ll ever regret.” – Lawrence J. Peter

    “Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength.” – Eric Hoffer

    “My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.” – James 1:19-20 (Bible, New International Version)

  92. I personally regard questions as an excellent opportunity to give a reply.

    The “counter” video posted today by “OSA Freedom Organization” is inane. I didn’t want to laugh, but found myself laughing, line charging, it is comical.

    It attacks Mr. Sweeney for “showing up unannounced” at an LRH BIRTHDAY EVENT, calling his showing up “tabloid tactics.” That’s absolutely flabbergasting. All Mr Sweeney was doing was seeking live, unrehearsed, uncontrived coverage in ACTION. I would have swung open the doors and said WELCOME! Have a piece of BIRTHDAY CAKE.

    If someone asked me if I were sure I was not brainwashed, I would welcome an opportunity for discussion and exploration. It’s something I value dearly, in fact, –i.e., that I think and observe for myself–and welcome every possible reality check. Instead of genuine communication, what does Mr. Sweeney get? the posed “huffy” indignation that is unnatural and flunked attempts at tone scale manipulation. And a “mystery sandwich” of people who get ruffled up, indignant, “offended” and in arms that someone wants to film a birthday celebration.

    Oh please, if the Organization would only do Scientology and drop the rest of their antics and evil rubbish, there would be a lot more happiness in the world.

    Of course, people have agendas. Of course the Organization of Scientology has created questions and doubts in the public at large. People have QUESTIONS. A good reporter knows ethics, knows the expository essay, knows the golden W’s (Who What Where When).

    OSA and Freedom and DM are running around fueling “enemies” in a perverse delusional game. Good people are not all the “big bad wolf.” Uninformed or 3rd partied people are not evil. There are no sides. It’s an illusion created, to opp term the Organization against society. THAT is an agenda. THAT is a cult. That is brainwashing. And that is NOT Scientology. Scientology is being held hostage and abused.

    How do I know I’m not an aardvark? Interesting question. Let’s take a look at that.

  93. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Anger = A tragic expression of unmet needs.

  94. LOL Are you going to join Tommy Davis now in using terms like “paranoid”?

    Bipolar…Earth is bipolar, north and south. And one of these days I want to tour Antarctica.

    Artists in the Golden Age were statesmen, philosophers. Don’t buy the propaganda that they are irresponsible and incapable whimsies. It’s really false data…what more responsibility can there be than knowingly creating?

  95. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Perhaps the gum chewing was compassionate bad-breath prevention as a courtesy to John Sweeney when Tommy Davis was screaming into Sweeney’s nose.

    Or, perhaps Tommy wanted to save himself the potential embarassment of Sweeny screaming back, “Dude, you need to do something about your breath!”

  96. OTVIII,

    You have met “most artists”, for long enough to accurately evaluate them in this way?


  97. Pingback: Top Posts —

  98. I feel in his heart JT is a friend, and a genuine scientologist. I think he comes across as evasive because he has serious doubts about the church, but has not done his personal Doubt formula to completion and is thus caught between a rock and a hard place. He knows the philosophy is good and tech works to help people, and at the same time he knows the church is more and more off the rails, “gone Psychlo.”

    I base the above solely on one brief experience: JT came to town in early summer of 2000 doing a book signing at the bookstore, of the new edition of Battlefield Earth. People were lined up around the block, and security was extreme. My son, about 14 at the time, always hated crowds but we went anyway. As he stood in front of JT to get his book signed, JT quickly looked at him with a full TR0 and then held his hand out for my son to shake hands with him. I believe he perceived my son’s nervousness and anxiety in this huge crowd, and reached out to him for that reason alone. I did not see JT do this with anyone else the entire 45 minutes we waited in line. I did see him speak with a couple of people, but his CCH type non-verbal response to my son was exactly right.

    Ever since, I have thought of JT as a person who would apply scientology as an act of kindness without regard for receiving any credit or publicity for it, but simply to help another.

    I wish him well forever and hope he can resolve his doubt condition before it’s too late for him.

  99. You got it, Sinar.

    I think North Korea and DM’s”church” are extremely alike. The parallels are astonishing. The North Korean populace are brainwashed and mind-controlled in ways very similar to what DM has done within the CoS.

    Barbed wire keeps people in, and the outside world are all enemies plotting to destroy them.

    I posted a synopsis of the North Korean “brainwashing” technique they used in the 1950s during the Korean War, as a comment in the “Reverse Scientology: Hypnotism” thread just prior to this one. DM is doing the same to his church staff and public also, point for point, as the North Koreans did to American prisoners of war, and as they do to their own people.

    Thus I refer to DM as “Dear Leader”. He is a brother to Kim Jong-Il in every way, like 2 peas in a pod.

  100. OTDT~I just don’t see him suffering the injustices or out-tech most everyone else does. He’s been trained pre-GAT and probably never even did GAT, so he knows LRH’s tech. He probably made it up the Bridge the way he was supposed to. I bet he’s never been gang-bang sec-checked either. Even Marty was applying standard tech till he left, right? There probably are a very few standard auditors left, who’ve been catering to and living the good life with JT specifically. I’m just imagining this, of course. And moving the rest of his family up the Bridge is a different story because keeping this facade in place is nearly impossible nowadays.
    Any celeb I’ve heard says they NEVER read the bad press, because so much of it is bull…which is often true. They protect themselves from all that. They don’t watch the news.
    Last summer we went to see mermaids and swim with manatees down near Crystal River, near Tampa and this mansion was being built on the river, supposedly his. So, I’d imagine he never even has to go to Flag…anybody needed comes to him.
    Who is going to get through and tell him the truth?

  101. The Cat is cracking me up! 🙂

  102. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Here’s a good example for DM’s psychotic world of his craving and demand for attention and for admiration, and an aspiration for him to the future of the entire planet.

    With Reverse Scientology, DM will finally be able to dwarf the next best “Great Leader”, Kim Il-sung, by surpassing Kim’s amazing stat of 500 statues of himself, and by forcing by Law, as it is now in North Korea, that every Citizen of the World wear a picture of himself on their person.

    DM, as the ultimate communist “Great Leader” of planet Earth, will finally be able to enforce his dream of outlawing Citizens of the World to even LOOK at the press, just as it is the Law now in North Korea.

    Finally, his dream of a totalitarian planetary-wide society, and the dream of freedom to inculcate into others, whatever he deems necessary, will have been reached.

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” – Edmund Burke

    (Any wonder why Germany is nervous about CofM?)

    Welcome to North Korea (Video)

    (Also, welcome to potential CofM World “civilization”. Never believe inculcation/implanting can’t happen. It already has in North Korea. On a smaller scale, the CofS.)

  103. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    Spot for spot for spot ON, bro!

  104. Veritas,
    THAT is The People’s Republic of North Korea. Oh yes, THAT is also Miscavige’s “Church of Scientology”. They are alike as 2 peas in a pod.

    Both are the REVERSE of what the Philosophy of Scientology actually is.

  105. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Bob Young wrote, “Did Rinder ever do lower conditions over his attempt to send Sweeney into a psychotic break? I think we should see his write-up.”

    Why is that important to you Bob? What need would that fulfill for you that would bless life?

  106. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    OT VIII wrote, “Most artists are bi-polar (PTS).”

    That’s a “highly subjective” generalization, isn’t it? 🙂

  107. VWD y’all! I just watched it all (in stealth mode, of course, for the untainted family o’mine) and I thought it was very well done.
    Mike, now that this has aired, I do believe you can dish, right?
    IMO it was a good portrayal of how the CofM abuses its staff/followers. There were no staff talking normally about it, only staff who’ve left, talking abnormally about it. Showing celebrities acting all weird, which is how they came across to me, didn’t help CofM.
    The meter demo was GREAT and showed some workability to the meter.
    Being followed…crazy and psycho. Why?
    Mike’s recording…proof positive of psychosis. Anybody screaming like that is just upsetting, no matter who or why, especially family members at each other.
    Amy’s point re. CofM sending anything regarding her sex life to the paper and neighbors! WTF…gross and disgusting and surely viewed as slimy in ANY circles.
    Marty, maybe the secrets you told weren’t included, but there were “secrets” that CofM does not want parishioners to know revealed. I was shocked by a lot of this stuff because I haven’t read everybody’s books yet or all the stuff on the web. So without much of that info, it seemed like a lot of secrets of the CofM were revealed.
    IMO if a person who knew nothing of LRH came across this video, there was enough to stop them from walking into a CofM but not enough to stop them from looking for Independents to learn about LRH instead. This is a GREAT thing!
    I am biased, of course, but I’m also deeply immersed in the greenfield.
    Mike, you look like you got the “bring back to life” process run on ya. 😉 Marty, you’re looking quite dashing (and soooooo much better than your swimming pool days of white particularly)!
    The family portraits were touching and heartbreaking, especially to me, a mother, sister and step-granny…I was in tears over their losses.

    So again, VWD to all of you!

    Martin, awesome getting on the air! You came across well and thanks for the props to LRH.

  108. Members of the Church of Scientology who are in good standing cut off communication with their own family members, even cut off ever speaking to or writing to their children and grandchildren.

  109. Church of Scientology executives admit that its own members choose of their own volition to cut all ties with their children, cut all ties with their grandchildren, cut all ties with their sisters and brothers and cut all ties with their friends.

  110. Wayne, that’s what I’m talking about! The People’s Republic of North Korea is the “datum of comparable magnitude” to Miscavige’s Church!

    What an awesomely tragic video. The parallels are astonishing. In addition to the total mind control through isolation and controlled communication, the emphasis on monumental MEST “Idle Orgs” as seen in Pyongyang, built on the bones of starving people who don’t even have rice and beans to eat. And although the video doesn’t show it, Kim Jong-Il does live in luxury.

    I really believe the CoS as it exists needs to be positioned right there with North Korea at every opportunity!

    Thanks for finding and posting that video!

    A word about the “grieving” shown at Kim Il-Sung’s death. I won’t say all the grief was feigned, but it is a prescribed part of the Korean culture to manifest grief at such times as funerals and what-not, whether one feels it or not, and people in that kind of culture are very good at mocking it up when it is socially appropriate to do so. Kinda like standing up and “enthusiastically” applauding DM’s punchlines.

  111. It must be very powerfull stuff that celibrities derive from the kind of pampering they get in contrast to “mear”common scientologists to remain so blind. Or to so tottaly believe in the good of the church. It of course has done them more good than the average church-member

  112. Tara,
    Good question. My guess would be that people are afraid to tell celebs the truth, ’cause they muster up such awe. Ooooh, Tom Cruise! Oooooh, John Travolta! Only say nice easy things. Protect them! That exec I saw watching and escorting Travolta around Flag looked like he was ready to pounce on anyone who ‘interfered’ with or troubled John at all. Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it.

    In the mid-90’s someone close to Travolta told me that he was getting his L’s and was asked how come he didn’t do ’em sooner. His reply supposedly was, “No one ever regged me for them.” If he’d been regular public, with dough, he’d a been regged real early on for ’em, I know that. He’s well protected for sure.

  113. Tara,
    Yeah, except it’s a lie that they do it under their own volition.

  114. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Valkov wrote …

    “The People’s Republic of North Korea is the “datum of comparable magnitude” to Miscavige’s Church!”

    “The parallels are astonishing. In addition to the total mind control through isolation and controlled communication, the emphasis on monumental MEST “Idle Orgs” as seen in Pyongyang, built on the bones of starving people who don’t even have rice and beans to eat.”

    You’re welcome. Excellent, Valkov. You really “got it”. The parallels are so remarkable, it’s likely disbelievable to one with a low confront of evil. However, I believe the brave former Sea Org staff will be the one’s most likely to truly relate to the similarities.

    No doubt the CofS is truly a “mini” North Korea, IMO. I fear the understanding of this parallel, if broadly attempted to be “positioned” this way, sadly will not impinge on the majority of public. They likely just will not “get it”, like you and I do, unless they’ve lived through something similar like the Sea Org.

    The majority will likely believe it’s “just an exaggeration” just to make a point. However, if one studies this report by German Scholars, they will discover it will be difficult to pass off the striking North Korea parallel as “just an exaggeration”.

    Click to access system_so_engl.pdf

    But, perhaps, reaching the majority with this level of understanding will not be necessary to defuse the current NK tragedy going on within the CofS. I postulate. 🙂

  115. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    I think I’ve found another appropriate name for what the CofS is doing. 🙂

    NK Ultra

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