Some of you may know me. My name is Mark McKinstry.
I did my first Scientology service in October 1975 at the Davis Mission, while a student at the University of California. I joined staff a few months later. My staff experience has been primarily on dissemination lines:
- I was part of the Davis Mission Division VI, which was one of the largest on the planet at the time.
- I worked at both the Guardians Office Worldwide and Mission Office Worldwide when they were headquartered at St. Hill for 7 years. 1977-1982
- I was a partner in Latch Management Services, a group that pioneered WISE consulting and dissemination to professionals, starting with Chiropractors. Sterling Management was an offshoot from this group. At one point our combined clients made up 25% of FSO GI weekly. Something WISE groups had never before accomplished. 1982 – 1987
- I joined the Sea Org in 1988. I held the post of National Sales Manager at Bridge Publications for 17 years and personally got orders for over 14 million LRH books (fiction and non-fiction).
I routed out of the Sea Org in 2007 and have been quietly off the lines since.
I am speaking up now.
For the most part, I was a productive and loyal staff member. My posts kept me on external lines for the most part. I worked directly with Author Services on Fiction lines and Central Marketing/GOLD on the non-fiction campaigns. My job was primarily to help create and present our Marketing and PR campaigns to major retailers like Barnes & Noble, Borders or Walmart and get them to order LRH books and set up promotions in their stores to display and advertise them. I also closed publishers in South America to publish LRH books in their countries. I established the Bridge office in Sao Paulo, Brazil.
As part of this post, I would go to the Int Base for meetings with Central Marketing staff and executives over these areas.
MY INTRODUCTION TO DM
In 1997, there was a plan to create a Scientology marketing campaign, similar to what had been done with Dianetics in the 80’s. The initial book to be “re-released” was SCIENTOLOGY: A NEW SLANT ON LIFE.
The advertising vehicle for NSOL was a TV campaign called GREAT LIES. You may remember it. A psychiatrist holding a brain, yelling “you are just a brain”. Needless to say, this campaign was not well received by my buyers and by the release date of the book, we had gotten orders for around 70,000 copies.
I was ordered to Int along with my Project Ops Don Arnow and after being put on the meter to find my crimes in front of WDC and IMEC, was given the ultimatum by COB that we either make a target of 250,000 books ordered by release or get kicked out of the Sea Org.
Being kicked out to the Sea Org meant the end of my career, my marriage, 22 years of work. This was the ethics gradient for non-compliance to a COB order. A destructive order at that.
If we were to make the 250,000 target and the books ordered did not “sell-through” to the consumer in 6-8 weeks, the books would then be destroyed and our relationships with the buyers who bought those books severely damaged. These consequences were known, but as COB had ordered it, so nobody questioned it.
Don and I with the help of some select CMU staff, put together a PR campaign video (riding on the publicity that John Travolta had been getting with Pulp Fiction) and used this to get orders for 270,000 books. To get this many books ordered at release meant books in every bookstore, airport, Walmart, and many grocery stores in America that sold books. We went to 40 states to do this, mostly by car.
The TV campaign was the bust that the buyers had initially predicted. Over 95% of the books were destroyed by the accounts after they failed to sell in the first two months.
We both were highly commended by COB for making the “do or die” target, had our ethics files cancelled, but severely damaged our goodwill with accounts. It was no victory for me.
Following the 911 attacks, I was attending the Frankfurt book fair in October and got word to return home ASAP I had received an order from COB to get 20 Dianetics books into every store in the U.S. on an immediate basis.
The facts were that 20 books per store, at the rate that stores had been selling Dianetics, would have been a seven-year supply per store. There was no marketing campaign, just the fact of 9/11and COB’s idea that this would increase demand for self-help books.
I proposed a plan that would gradually increase the stock in stores to 20 per store over a six month period, as we created demand for the books as there had been no Dianetics marketing being done for years. This was rejected and the “do or die” order stood.
This time, the “gun to the head of the salesman” did not work. I could not pass the “disagreement check” in order to fire on this sales trip. Others went in my place (and got no orders from any account). Some time later, I was labeled a “stat crasher” and sent to the Pac RPF.
It was there that I met almost 100 SO vets who had been offloaded from the Int base by orders of COB. Each one with the r-factor that they would be declared if they routed out.
I won’t fully recount here what the PAC RPF is like. At best it is a gulag where time stands still. The only thing that makes it bearable are the some of the dedicated staff there. Some had been on the program for seven years or more. That is seven years without a day off, no contact with wife or family, no music, twenty-minute meal breaks. A phone call to your parent’s on Christmas day. A day otherwise spent cleaning floors and toilets. For the most part the RPF is kept hidden from the public and staff. For the most part, we helped build sets for the Int events and furniture for the “Ideal Orgs”.
At one point, following an IAS event, the RPF was allowed to watch the video of the event where Tom Cruise receives the IAS medal and is proclaimed by DM as “the most dedicated Scientologist I know”. I looked over at the guy sitting next to me, a man who had worked on the ship with LRH, had been an SO member for over 25 years, who had been on the RPF for 6 years separated from his wife and family. Really? An actor who has been actively disseminating for a couple of years is the most dedicated Scientologist on the planet?
I finished the RPF program in 2.5 years (a relatively fast completion time) and returned to Bridge Publications. The trade lines (dissemination to raw public) were now completely dead. The national bookstore accounts had not even been visited in my absence. All the attention and effort was on setting up the Bridge manufacturing lines, repackaging the books and more sales to Scientologists (existing public). The HCOPL PROPORTIONATE MARKETING outlines how marketing should be done, with the majority going to raw public campaigns. The exact opposite of what is occurring.
The staff who had made some progress in the 80’s on raw public dissemination were for the most part either RPFed or declared. Most of these people were my close friends that I had worked with “in the trenches”: Ronnie Miscavige, Bill Dendiu, Fred Harris, Steve Hall, Jeff Hawkins, Gabrielle Allen, Phil Anderson, Yael Sherlock. Most declared Suppressive Persons. How could that be?
As an S.O. member not at the Int base, you would never know that they had been declared. They would just disappear off the lines with no mention of what had occurred. The only way I knew that Bill Dendiu was out of the S.O. was I met him at LAX on the way back from Brazil. Someone that I had worked with for almost 20 years.
WHY I AM SPEAKING OUT
When I heard that Mike Rinder had blown, I began searching the internet to see if I could find some trace of him. I had not worked much with Mike directly, but we were involved in many of the same campaigns. At one point when I was being “investigated” I got word that Mike had stood up for me at a meeting at Int. You never forget something like that.
Everyone is your friend when you get commended by COB. But your real friends are those who stand up for you, when it is not popular to do so. It is so easy to find fault with another staff member, much harder to defend them, because in this environment you open yourself the to charge of having mutual overts or in some way defying “command intention”.
What Marty and Mike write on this site is true. It is the only vehicle that I know of that fills the vacuum as to what has been going on. It is information that few Sea Org members and Scientologists are privy to. S.O. members are denied access to the internet for the most part, with filters to keep them from seeing sites like this.
To see Freedom Magazine come out with its “investigation” on ex-S.O. Really? Freedom magazine? There aren’t 4th dynamic abuses worth exposing? We need to convince everyone that anyone who dares to have a contrary opinion is open to have 25 years of service pilloried? I don’t agree.
The reason that people have to go outside the Church to make themselves heard is obvious. The “Emperor’s New Clothes” is in effect full time internally. Who is going to question DM, let alone depose him?
I support Mike and Marty in getting the truth made know so that it can be dealt with before the resources of Scientology are consumed in defending David Miscavige at all costs. Because if enough people don’t wake up internally as to what is going on, eventually the handling will be done externally.
In making this statement, I will be cut off from friends who are “in good standing” with the Church. Or declared. So be it.
If it is one less day that Heber or others have to stay “in the hole”, or the RPF, it is worth it.
Mark, you may be cut off from friends who are “in good standing” with Corporate Scientology, but you have just made more friends (real friends) here than I think you have anticipated.
Thank you for speaking out & making yourself known! Thank you for all your years of services.
Mark,’ as Morpheous said; “welcome to the real world”. It is good to have your likes here. You indeed do have a lot of friends out here that know you.
ML Tom Martiniano
Glad to see you landed on your feet Mark. There is a lot of fresh air here, and freedom to think and do as you please.
Looking forward to reading your posts, and any more enlightenment they shed.
I love that top picture. It looks like you’re standing at the gateway to the world. Great story. Glad you made it out in one piece.
Mark, anyone who cuts comm with you now that you’re “out” isn’t worth knowing anyway. You’ve got a life now.
Hi Mark. Nice to meet ya!
It’s really incredible to me how someone as obviously talented as you are is so freakin WASTED in David Miscavige’s organization!
Wow, how I’d love for you to be my book promoter – just like LRH I’m sure would have valued your incredible talents for doing such.
Your last line really gelled a concept – do whatever it takes to stop the madness and abuse! Quit hiding and the tacit agreement by NOT standing up to this BS that’s going on. Just QUIT IT!
If everybody slighted would stand up and say F U cuz I’m NOT doing this anymore or taking this anymore – boom, David Miscavige’s pretend world comes crashing down! That simple.
Yes, it takes some gradient confront to get to this point but it sure doesn’t take a gradient approach to bring it down. Shout it out loud! Tell everybody you know the truth and nothing but the truth!
Hugs man…I’m glad you’re OUT from under that ridiculous suppressive crap! The ones who might disconnect from you now will not be disconnected for long. In fact, it will be the beginning of their realization that it just ain’t worth it to have to stoop this low for DM!
Good to see you.
Very well written story. I think every being from every echelon has a story. What we were asked to pull off were extraordinary — impossible targets, that we actually got done because of necessity level and in most cases, passion. It made us capable.
For those of us who can see and who are still passionate, that necessity level is now to get Scientology back. I’m not saying that is the case for everyone on this blog, but we have a group of Independent Scientologists who in some way, shape or form disagree with what the (now dead) church has become.
Tom and I now have a group that is delivering. It’s life itself!
Nice to see you. Great pictures by the way. What area is that?
Fantastic that you are speaking out.
You must have been an incredible asset to the Sea Org and this is just another huge example of the suppressive nature of DM. Who in their right mind would waste the number and quality of individuals that DM has?? You might say (if you were a Bot) that DM didn’t know this was happening and that it was someone else doing it.
Well, If DM was a qualified exec he WOULD KNOW what was happening in his own organization. It just burns me up that so many OT Sea Org members have been brutalized and thrown out like so much garbage.
The US Marine Corp and other special forces units have a policy of going back and risking life and limb to rescue their dead or injured comrades. I was never in the Sea Org but have always considered this elite team to be my brothers in arms. That our “leader” could act in such a careless manner is a testimony to his degraded state. I welcome you to our team Mark and thank you for your selfless dedication to helping others. Your efforts will not be forgotten and have not been wasted.
Hey Linda and Tom!!
That is great that you have your own delivery team now!! Fantastic!!
Mark – I am SO happy to see you posting here. I had heard you were out and hoped you would surface. Get in touch with me at firstname.lastname@example.org. We have some catching up to do.
Thank you so much for your report and for speaking out. Marty’s right. You are surrounded by friends.
Thank you for all you have done and are doing to assist Ron and get Dianetics and Scientology into the hands of the people.
It is wonderful to have your voice here.
Big hug from me.
Mark, thank you for your story and welcome! Are you related to Renee McKinstry?
PS. Mark, very well done for not taking 10 years to truly crawl out of the woodwork like I did 😉
What I see more and more is that the CofS is committing suicide.
They were married a LONG time.
Is she still at AO?
I was visibly moved by your coming out story. I embrace you as a FRIEND. Absolutely wonderful essay.
As Marty says, the new friendships you will make ~~ the camaraderie, the loyalty and warm, friendly feeling among comrades, the rapport, the support OUT of Dm’s cult will be BEYOND your expectations.
The destruction of Dissemination Lines defies Reality.
I won’t fully recount here what the PAC RPF is like. At best it is a gulag where time stands still. The only thing that makes it bearable are the some of the dedicated staff there. Some had been on the program for seven years or more. That is seven years without a day off, no contact with wife or family, no music, twenty-minute meal breaks. A phone call to your parent’s on Christmas day. A day otherwise spent cleaning floors and toilets. For the most part the RPF is kept hidden from the public and staff. For the most part, we helped build sets for the Int events and furniture for the “Ideal Orgs”.
What was originally created by LRH for a few short weeks of MEST work with 5 hours a day solid enhancement, has been turned into Drachonian punishment detail of the Sea Organization devoted to punishing and humiliating those who DISPLEASE David Miscavige or DO NOT COMPLY with some unreal, off the wall, non policy DM order.
There is a common thread, common denominator on how DM operates and handles.
He ENFORCES by OVERWHELM
HE ENFORCES by THREATS
He ENFORCES by being TOO GRUESOME
He ENFORCES by PUNISHMENT and HUMILIATION
He PRETENDS he is doing this to raise STATS for the CHURCH while utterly destroying GOODWILL
We both were highly commended by COB for making the “do or die” target, had our ethics files cancelled, but severely damaged our goodwill with accounts. It was no victory for me.
How nice that Mike Rinder was defending you secretly in the background when it was NOT the thing to do.
Sounds just like the Mike Rinder I know !
Warm Warm welcome to our community.
Mark, welcome and thank you for speaking out. Love the picture of you standing at the “Gateway to Freedom”. Wow what a story. You worked with many dedicated people. I remember your name when you worked with
Latch Management Services. Thank you for your time, LRH would be proud of you.
Hi Mark! And thank you for speaking out.
Yet another stellar producer and bright thetan tossed aside in the name of Dear Leader’s vanity. Truly sickening (how he treats decent people); although I’ve read hundreds of pages, it still amazes. Are there ANY decent Execs left at management levels?
I met you on Oct 13, 1976. Wow, 34 years ago! You trained me to be a public reg and turned your hat over when you went off to join the GO. I just have to let you know I beat your number of First Starts!
Joking aside, it’s great to read your story and know you are doing well. I spent 6 hours today with an old Davis Staff member who has been out of Scientology since 1997. He still applies the tech. He had no idea there was an independent network out here. It’s great for people to be able to connect up on Marty’s blog and for friendships to be restored.
Wow. Nicely written, in reality and powerful!
“If it is one less day that Heber or others have to stay “in the hole”, or the RPF, it is worth it.”
This got to me. I feel the same way, and I think about and pray for these people everyday. Even one extra day in the hole for them is a day WAY too late. It is insane to me that this even exists. Putting an end to the abuse of others is something that is urgent.
Thank you Mark McKinstry for your courage to speak out.
You have a lot of scientologists, freezoners, and anons, who are all in this struggle to end the abuse. You likely have many more friends than you can ever imagine.
Welcome to a freer world!
Welcome home! I think in short order this will be more real to you. I noticed that some of the people you worked with are already out of the church. I’m sure they will be very happy to see you as well.
I really appreciate all that you have done and your ability to think in the future, despite DM undermining your efforts. I don’t know how long you have been reading the blogs but many of us have simply decided to bypass the church in delivering Scientology.
This really is a great community out here! I look forward to hearing more from you but in the meantime, have a blast connecting up to old friends. Good to see that you are already enjoying life in an unrestricted environment, great pics!
“Each one with the r-factor that they would be declared if they routed out.”
Ahh so it wasn’t just me (I was ‘forced’ to do the RPF in this manner back in 1994). Seems like this is standard practice – thanks for exposing yet another of DM’s insane alter-is squirrel policies.
Well done for making it out and thank you for speaking up.
May your declaration of independence indeed cause Heber to spend one day less in the hole.
Welcome friend 🙂
Welcome, Mark! Your story is moving, your years of dedication more than admirable – whistle blowing about the abusive management under David Miscavige, loudly and openly in this place of united voices is so important. And very inspiring, each and every time it occurs. Thank you for speaking out. Woop and hot-dang!
I remember when you did some auditor training, and you were a good auditor, as I recall. I was one of the Sec Checker School Sups with Peter Albert, in the late 1980s, when you were auditor for Bridge, I recall.
I’d love to hear more details about the PAC RPF, can you email me privately, so I can ask you some questions about it?
I was on the PAC RPF from Nov 2000 till I routed out in March 2003.
You likely got done so fast due to your tech background, and you likely had a good twin also.
Thanks for being normal citizen and being public about your views on Scientology, the good and the bad.
Please email me so I can ask about the PAC RPF recent years history.
Mark, I remember you when you were on the RPF at PAC, and let me tell you, you look so much better and happier. You probably don’t know me, since we never formally met, but I always took notice of you, when we passed in the hallway. I used to be a junior to Renee, who I still hold in very high regard, as she cared deeply for the welfare of her staff, and getting people up the bridge. She always talked very highly of you, and could not wait until you routed off the RPF. Needless to say, seeing you speak out, really impinges on me. I look forward to hearing more from you, and hearing about your travel stories, the places in the pictures look awesome!
Hi Mark, thanks for sharing your story with us and for speaking out. It looks like you have great disseminating experience and talents. I am so sorry that such people have so much trouble under DM. Dissemination and Suppression Cannot go together. I am glad you are here now. Here the game is called Initiative and we are all doing fine. Good to see you here.
Mark — Welcome! Thanks for speaking up. You, Jeff, Bill, Dan, Ronnie, Steve, Carrie, Peter, Kalleihiki, Jimmy and many others were an assembly of incredibly competent and dedicated individuals who were blown off. Pointlessly. And look at where things are today — Scientology can’t even get people onto their free blog — let alone buy books. Been into Borders or any other chain recently and tried to find any LRH books? Maybe a single yellowed copy of DMSMH. Sad.
Thanks, Harry. She was there a few years ago pushing the buy-mass-quantities-of-basic-books packages, but I have no idea if she’s still there.
I remember seeing you around PAC. I was public and really didn’t make a big splash in the Scn community so I am sure you would not know me.
We are now friends and I send you admiration and respect for taking the right road.
I hope you will share more experiences as time allows.
Thanks for your well-articulated introduction. Please continue enjoying your freedom.
After reading your story, and the stories of many other people who were either at the Int Base and/or suppressed by Miscavige, I can’t help but think of the LRH datum that a real SP will get rid of all the good staff in an org. That is very true, and DM has done exactly that. Now DM is only surrounded by a bunch of brainwashed “yes men”, like Tommy Davis and Jennifer Linson and Ken Moxon, who will do his evil bidding without second thoughts, without compunctions. The current C of S is only a shallow parody of what it was 20-30 years ago or what it could be today. DM can’t expand the church using LRH policy, but insteads builds an empire of “idle orgs”, much like those fake buildings that are built for Hollywood sets in that they only give the outward appearance of something happening. Not surprisingly, DM now hires paid actors (young and handsome, of course) to fill his PR events and to fill out the “grand openings” of empty idle morgues, DM’s mausoleams of excess and stupidity. The C of S 2010 – the Church of Shills.
I hate to break it to you, but even giving away the books is a bust nowadays. I can tell you that Bridge Publications materials arriving at our library go straight to the bin for the semi-annual book sale.
That’s one dollar per brown paper shopping bag full.
Beautifully written and my congratulations to you for setting a great example of personal integrity and creating a new life! Welcome to the free world!
When I was last on training and auditing at AOLA in 2004 and 2005, I ran into Charlie Rush on a few occasions at the student cafe on L. Ron Hubbard Way. He was doing dishes and helping with the food and when I first saw him, I was truly shocked. I knew him from the old CC on 8th St., from many years earlier. After that, he had become one of the Golden Era Musicians and was posted on the ship and touring. To see him slinging dishes really did not make sense to me. I asked him more than one time, why he was there and he just said, “It’s a long story”. Now that I put all together, my best guess is that he was on the RPF.
Years earlier, I was on a very rough flight back to California from Flag. It was pretty much a twilight zone flight, replete with crashing lightening, thunder and tremendous bouncing motion and I was scared to death. Charlie, sat with me, gave me assists and was incredible generous with his help and ARC. I will never forget him for that!
All the brightest and best he tries to crush and burry!
This is David Misgavige’s legacy.
My thanks to you for all that you have done, inside the Church and now outside! I believe the avalanche is starting to roll…I can hear the rocks falling now.
What an awesome thing to see you here on the blog!
I am so happy.
We’ve got all the real cool cats on our side, don’t we! 😉
Looking forward to meeting up sometime.
Much love and a BIG HUGE HUG,
MARK! GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN, ESPECIALLY ON THE RIGHT SIDE. SPLURGE ON YOUR INDEPENDENCE. THOSE “IN GOOD STANDING” TAKE NOTE. WHAT YOUR STANDING IN REQUIRES A CLOTHES PIN ON THE NOSE.
Hello Mark, welcome to real free doom, where you can apply what you learnt.
I am sure you will experience a surge of power and peacefulness after speaking out.
Helmut & Hellen
Thanks for all the responses to my posting. I didn’t expect it to be posted until next week, so am a bit behind in responding.
The photos are from the Great Wall and Hawaii, where I currently live.
I hope my story helps to activate others bring about the reform that is needed.
Charlie was not on the RPF. He was actually posted in the Galley as the dishwasher. The way DM and those who have snapped terminals with him in Snr HCOs in all the Conts around the planet, take the highest trained administrators, auditors, evaluative and MAAs, and turn them into bus drivers, gardeners, toilet cleaners and dish washers will prove in the end to be what has allowed the destruction of the Church to take place.
I know she was still there as of 6 or 7 months ago. I’m not sure about now.
HOW DARE YOU compare the c org to the Marine Corps or ANY military unit!!!
To compare a group of people weak-minded enough to be deluded into becoming members of a cult to people who are risking their lives every day for your freedom is beyond the pale. You obviously have been in NEITHER.
What a beautifully well written and touching account. And the photos…a more perfect depiction your freedom and state of well being, they could not be.
Enjoy your life and all the wonderful peoples of earth. You deserve the best. And know that you are amongst friends.
Thanks Jeff… I’ll be in touch.
Thanks Kris. Much appreciated. Renee is a great person. I hope she makes it out one day. Almost impossible to get communication to her presently.
I worked with Charlie in the galley when I was routing out. He is a great guy whose talents are being wasted.
For the record, those former Int staff who do make it off the RPF for the most part are given menial posts in PAC.
The fact that they are married, with spouses posted at Int does not matter. You would think that completing the RPF program, which includes hundreds of hours of FPRD and a metered/video’d interview to ensure that you have no evil purposes regards David Miscavige, would be enough. The video is scrutinized by RTC before one is allowed to graduate.
What Marty, Mike and others with experience at Int post here is true. The PAC RPF and Pac base is loaded with former Int staff, some of whom worked directly with LRH. Literally hundreds of years of experience being wasted.
Thanks Christie. Looking forward to it.
Thank you for your beautifully written story, and thank you for speaking out. It is true that you have many warm friends here. Possibly it can be that the C of $ can be reformed, but if it can the first step will have to be getting rid of Da Madman, whom multiple viewpoints have shown to be an insane person who has done and continues to do incalculable damage. How will his reign come to an end? I do not know.
Possibly, as you suggest, through some internal reform, although it is hard to imagine enough people at once within the church having a blinding cognition that it must be done. More likely, it will because he be arrested and removed for some of the many crimes he has committed. These include:
* Felony assaults
Thanks for providing a site where we can communicate. Keep up the good work. I am sure that there are many people like me who have been reading your posts and having the true data brought to light. Keep up the good work.
According to reports, also:
* False imprisonment
* Intentionally depriving people of their civil rights.
* Misappropriation of Church funds
Jim Bakker spent 5 years in prison for mail fraud and conspiracy. It would appear that he was far less culpable than David Miscavige.
When say “cult” are you referring to Scientology or the Marine Corp?
Hey welcome aboard Mark!
Thanks for the data. I’d love to make an apprearance at the cafe and give Charlie my card, which has all my info. Might just do it. Since all seem to be totally out of comm in the current SCN realm, it’s really not unthinkable! Thanks for the data Mark. Charlie, I really care about. Incredibley sweet, good guy. Same with Herber!
You sound like you are wound up pretty tight my friend.
For your information I served four years in the US Navy.
Obviously you have never been involved in Scientology so I don’t think you can really have an educated opinion in this discussion.
My main point was that the military don’t leave their team mates behind. If you had been involved in any group where you have given your blood sweat and tears to be dumped in the street or forsaken after given so much to the group is very wrong, that is my main point. If you can’t see this then you have deeper issues that need to be addressed.
Yeaaaaaaaah!!!! another FREE & Theta club member! 🙂 🙂
Welcome to your real team. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Scn is DEAD!!! The people inside are just blind to whats happening. As we all know DM and his thugs are super loose with the truth as a matter of fact he will lie and defraud the parishioners at all cost including trying to annihilate his critics. DM needs to be put in the hole just like he ordered all of the hard working SO members so dedicated to LRH. DM is a joke and the laughing stock in the religious and spiritual community.. There is NOTHING spiritual about DM.
Thanks Mike. I do check the bookstores, and you are right. Not to mention the LRH fiction which is non-existent.
Hey Mark! What a great surprise. Welcome to the huge and non-PTS field of Independent Scientologists and congratulations on taking back your personal integrity by having the courage to state what you have observed. Amazing to hear what really happened with that campaign… DM literally corrupts and kills everything he touches.
Hi Mark – Welcome back.
Hi Mark! Great to see you outside the barbed wire and speaking out! Thank you. I was on RPF with you. I remember watching that event with TC being inducted into the Hall of Fame just slightly under DM. I remember thinking at the time that I personally knew and liked TC some 10-15 years prior to that and that it was too bad that the boy now was so far gone that he actually totally went along with the bullshit. The best of luck in the big wide world!
One more eye witness account of David Miscavige, a blithering idiot.
I, for one, still have attention on Daniel Montalvo, I trust he’s doing fine. His situation stirred up the 2D pot with me so I felt compelled to write a bit.
Nothing to do with the post, but something I had to say:
A Mother’s Thoughts
She looks out the window
At far away places.
Her thoughts making out
only their faces.
Their untied shoes.
The smell of their clothes.
Tear stained cheeks,
Beside a runny little nose.
She wonders if they think of her,
When she was called upon to help,
Them through til they could stand.
The loosening of their grip upon her hand,
When they believed what they were told.
By opportunists in white collars,
Culling out the fold.
For a greater cause than hers.
She wonders if they’re fine,
Or if they’re being mistreated.
No letters home despite the time,
To heal her yearning heart.
For all the years,
They’ve been apart.
She bites her lip when she remembers
All the chatter about the greater good.
As if a Mother’s love was close to sin.
No, she never let go,
But she did give in.
Now you sit upon your crumbling throne,
While this child of hers knows little more,
Then pleasing you and you alone.
Unprepared for life with choices few.
One decision poorly made,
And that was believing in you.
Oh, yeah, the military is just full of the best and the brightest. People that have to be broken mentally and then reprogrammed to kill. Yeah, that is really, really bright. Very laudible. Don’t misinterpret me here: there are battles worth fighting, just NONE in the past 65 years. There is heroism and valor and sacrifice and that is very noble but let’s make no mistake here: war is mankind going insane. What the hell is so great about that?
Mark, We never met but I recall you and Don Arnow mentioned from time to time and it was clear that you two were the guys being relied on the make things happen at Bridge.
Thanks for your well written piece. From the looks of the photos, you are enjoying your new life. All the best,
Thank you for sharing your story. I do remember those commercials. I thought some of them were pretty good.
It’s like doing L-11 leaving COS. Welcome to your new life!
This is another piece of the puzzle. We knew that we were being manipulated into buying all those books as a stat push, but we now see it was because DM had destroyed the standard comm lines to the retail outlets. He obviously decided WE could sell them to all those people we didn’t have comm lines to!
Thanks for your very well written story & welcome to this blog! Though we have not met, we do have quite a few mutual friends. It’s amazing how many competent people, an organizations resources and power have been totally wasted. I saw a list of people who were in the RPF in Pac years ago and recognized many friends and am amazed that a few are still drinking Kool Aid.
Well Done on coming out and thank you for your many years of dedicated service.
It is heartening for me to see others coming out and making a stand. For those of us who have suffered church abuses and are experiencing the pain of disconnection, it gives a measure of relief to hear from others who have seen the light and decided to speak out.
Thank you for helping.
Charlie’s permanent post is dishwasher – never to be re-posted.
Great story, Mark! And Congratulations to you!
As for your story being posted sooner rather than later, let me say as one of Marty’s biggest fans and avid blog reader: things seem to be picking up pace. The more I read, the more research going on of the current scene, seems to lead me to think that things are coming to a head rather quickly. And it is stories like yours that bring more and more people to light, open more eyes of former staff and current public every single day.
Enjoy the communication! It’s about to rain down on you from friends near and far!
A Friend you have never met. 🙂
“To compare a group of people weak-minded enough to be deluded into becoming members of a cult to people who are risking their lives every day for your freedom is beyond the pale. ”
You’re being very judgemental and ignorant in making this comment about people who join cults. For one thing it shows a lack of understanding about how intelligent people can be lured into mind control cults. Are you part of Anonymous? They believe that all Scientologists, even ex-Scientologists are “irredeemable idiots”. However, as cult expert Stephen Hassan has mentioned, the more mind a person has, the more mind he has that can be controlled. Or to put in poker terms, “you can’t bluff a fool”.
Also, for this of us who joined the “c org” (are you any relation to Jethro Bodine BTW?), we all believed in the purpose of what we were doing and made great personal sacrifices to do so. Probably something you know very little about. And it’s quite possible if a social personality had been in charge of the “c org” after LRH had died, Scientology could have been a force for good instead of what it has become.
That is wonderful of you to step up and volunteer to tell your story.
“This to shall come to pass”
EVERY DAY David Miscavige convinces the world he is more of a lame impairment than anyone originally anticipated.
Thank you for sharing.
“If it is one less day that Heber or others have to stay “in the hole”, or the RPF, it is worth it.”
Mark, you will be fine.
You are fine. Best wishes.
Those who came down from Int, are labeled and known around the various cont orgs as “THE EX INT DBS” and are never to be posted to a post of Dept head or higher. So you have former WDC members and Int execs posted as deputy folder pages, etc. at CC, AO, ASHO and the various cont level orgs. The CLOs and CMOs are briefed to watch these people and make life difficult for them. You alway see Nigel Oaks (Folder Page or Deputy Tech Page), Charlie Rush (Permanent Dishwasher) Steve Willet, Ken Mortensen (Folder Admin), Janadair Swanson (Some kind of a page) etc. I saw some of these guys directing parking at the IAS event. It’s amazing the pride DM takes in demasculating people. Truly disgusting.
Dear Mark, Thanks for joining our ranks of free people! You’ve just made a new friend in Italy, (Sardinia to be precise) Good luck!
Wow, what a history. Thanks for sharing, theta is always available by those who who wish to share it. This is such a place – welcome.
I am 100% convinced that is inevitable, and I am glad that is in progress of happening. No Monopoly should have exclusive Rights on any Tech which strives for spiritual Freedom. One could argue that CST/RTC must keep the Tech pure to deter its Perversion outside its Sphere of Control, but the original unadulterated LRH Tech is now only available in the Freezone. Thus Church must step aside, and let those get on with it who are actually making it happen – The Freeing of Beings.
As I had been in the army I had been the driver of a senior way above my level.
His usual modus operandy had been:
Sitting calm in the car.
Nattering about my driving.
Doing this and that. Like looking through paper.
But in a hectic way.
Then an outburst with charge and red head.
Like steam that had been released.
After that sitting calm in the car.
This actually had been a cycle from 5 to 10 minutes.
Every 10 minutes all day I had to deal with him.
I guess David M. has a similar behaviour.
I could not handle that. I only could disconnect.
Saying no or anything to his natter about my driving did not help.
It only speeded up the time to the outburst.
Those who did audit DM or meter checked him and did not report his no progress and failed meter check are those that should go to RPF.
you’ve got a friend.
Thanks you so much for your help to LRH.
Welcome back home.
Hey Mark! Hi all 🙂
Congratulations on your new found freedom. I know you’ve been “out” for awhile, but there’s nothing like fully coming out, and sharing your story, eh?
Thank you so very much! I’ve said it for years, and I still believe it’s true:
IF every person who was out and quiet now began to speak out, and all who are “under the radar” stood up and were true to their own, personal integrity that they JOINED Scientology with—-that disgusting abomination of a “church”, run by Davey boy and gang, would be O V E R.
Thank you for sharing your story!!! As Marty and others have pointed out,
you’ll be amazed at how many *real* friends you now do have!
PS: **To ALL who have spoken out, if I missed saying it to you–my congratulations to you, too**
Daniel is fine. Getting some space and some love. Will update on defense later this week. Don’t want to tip off Big Brother at the moment.
There appears to be something said here that you don’t like, don’t agree with, have some issue with the communication or some break in understanding.
I get that. I really do.
Who did you report your outbursting army senior to?
Thanks for posting this. The seargent speaks very much like DM. The troops respond very much like Int. The differences are as follows:
a) There is no predictable or attainable EP. DM speaks and acts just like the seargent, but there is not product. In the Marines, you become a killer of enemies, or at least one can demonstrate to the seargent’s satisfaction that is where he is at and graduate. Then the degradation ends.
b) At Int with DM, there is only the degradation cycle. It ceases when the target acts like a bumbling, insane, fool. Then he is parked there, and if he later begins to show signs of life, origination, or competence, DM comes back and administers another dose of degradation.
c) There is sleep and food, sunlight and physical exercise deprivation administered by DM with the degradation. Not so in the Marines.
d) In the Marines there is some EP of PRIDE that comes with demonstration of competence. Not so with DM. It is quite the reverse.
The boot camp of Full Metal Jacket is paradise compared to the Hole. PARADISE!
DM’s actions seem to have one common theme.
They, on the surface appear to be an effort fo forward Scientology. But they apparently all have the same end result- collapse of some area. The “handlings” result in the destruction of the area being handled.
I wonder what would happen if the current, more grandiose programs- Ideal Orgs, the “Mecca” and Superpower, etc were allowed to run their course what the end result would be?
Bankrupt and failed orgs completely under the control of COB?
An entirely ARC broken upper levels public?
I bought the set of Mission Earth for a 90% discount in Waldenbooks or some bookstore like that, in a Clearwater shopping mall.
Out of habit, I always check for LRH books when I’m in a book store. They are generally non-existent now days. Compared to ten years ago you could find them in almost all bookstores. Something happened, I think this was it.
How dare you say “how dare you” to somebody who knows of which he speaks.
Welcome Mark! Thanks for all of your hard work and for speaking out.
Welcome to the next stage of this wonderful game. Every skill tested, KRC upped to higher and higher levels. Thanks for everything you’ve done so far.
Thank you for your accounting and thank you for speaking out. You have provided further valuable insight on the death spiral of the CoM.
I have no doubt that David Miscavige is a whole track SP. He’s on a course where there will be nothing and no one left to smash except himself.
We know that books make booms. No books? Kaboom!
My best wishes to you.
Thanks Marty for the update.
Not to participate in military units I think is a badge of honor these days with all the murder they’re responsible for in Iraq, see wikileaks for raw evidence, we were in Scientology trying to make the world a better place. A place without war… That is no weakness.
Welcome out Mark.
If you still have comlines into the book market you may help getting our books (BFG, Jeff, Amy) into the public.
Thanks for your info Mark. I’m with you — I much appreciate having the true data brought to light by Marty, Mike and the many other people who post on this blog. And Marty, thank you, thank you, thank you for publishing DOX!!! It’s so hard to separate the wheat from the chaff sometimes and its just great that you and Mike have made a point of making it possible to verify at least some of the info for those of us who have not personally witnessed what you have.
Are you talking about the Sea Org here, Joe?
“Oh, yeah, the military is just full of the best and the brightest. People that have to be broken mentally and then reprogrammed to kill. Yeah, that is really, really bright.”
I could ‘fify’ that, but, please, replace military with $cientology…and _obviously_ replace “kill” with worshipping a loser Tiny Tyrant, – a (very) small one, actually.
Having served, I do feel offended. Yet, I do understand that is ‘my limitation’. Semper Fi…Leon Uris has written about that. ;-]
I do understand your passionate expression William as I was raised by a marine and so know how they elevate themselves to an elite group that asserts this status at the expense of other branches of the military. He was no role model btw. However your post shows that you have let your emotions override your objectivity over two words – semper fi. The marine corps’ use of this term didn’t signal the end of the concept applying to others who have used this term to describe their dedication to a brotherhood determined to remain faithful to SOMETHING since the days of it’s Latin origin.
Unless you have honestly understood what TRUE Sea Org members are dedicated to and have had the experience of beholding the teamwork in action to pursue their purposes then you don’t know them or the Sea Org at all. What you have read here about what Sea Org members have experienced IS their demonstration of Semper Fi to a much higher goal for all of mankind.
For you and for us all I’m going to go ahead and write what LRH said that makes Semper Fi (always faithful) apply to this blog more than any group I’ve know and that is not to slight the Marines or the lives they willingly have put on the line for our country’s freedom. I DO admire the marines and appreciate the help they have provided toward freedom but there is another freedom – one that is in harmony with yours IMHO :
THE AIMS OF SCIENTOLOGY
A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war,
where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and
where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of
Nonpolitical in nature, Scientology welcomes any individual of any
creed, race or nation.
We seek no revolution. We seek only evolution to higher states of
being for the individual and for society.
We are achieving our aims.
After countless millennia of ignorance about himself, his mind and the
universe, a breakthrough has been made for man.
Other efforts man has made have been surpassed.
The combined truths of fifty thousand years of thinking men, distilled and
amplified by new discoveries about man, have made for this success.
We welcome you to Scientology. We only expect of you your help in
achieving our aims and helping others. We expect you to be helped.
Scientology is the most vital movement on Earth today.
In a turbulent world, the job is not easy. But then, if it were, we wouldn’t
have to be doing it.
We respect man and believe he is worthy of help. We respect you and
believe you, too, can help.
Scientology does not owe its help. We have done nothing to cause us to
propitiate. Had we done so, we would not now be bright enough to do
what we are doing.
Man suspects all offers of help. He has often been betrayed, his
confidence shattered. Too frequently he has given his trust and been
betrayed. We may err, for we build a world with broken straws. But
we will never betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us.
The sun never sets on Scientology.
And may a new day dawn for you, for those you love and for man.
Our aims are simple, if great.
And we will succeed, and are succeeding at each new revolution of hte Earth.
Your help is acceptable to us.
Our help is yours
L. Ron Hubbard
OEC volume 6, p. 519
Maria, I think you are confused, these are not Dox. Dox are just documents – as in actual hard copies of correspondence, orders, statements – basically stuff that in a court of law would qualify as evidence. Hard proof. What Marty has posted here, while great, is NOT Dox. It is Mark’s brief personal story of his experience in corporate Scientology. If Mark submitted emails, written orders, or statements with his post you would have DOX.
When Marty or Mike get around to publishing dox – you will know it.
Much like a good Scientologist I too hate MUs.
Right or wrong, when I meet a member of the armed forces, I thank them. I thanked my father for what he did in WW II to make it possible for me to carry on a life again, in North America, free from the suppression of Hitler. I thank those who face up to the threats and viciousness of those under Osama Bin Laden.
Yes, war is insanity. Sometimes it is necessary to get up off the chair, and apply the correct estimation of effort to deal with some prick with a machete chopping of the arms of women and children. Heads on pikes and with things settled down, audit the shit out of beings so reason can prevail. Sometimes.
The military mindset is one of robotically obeying the master’s orders to murder and maim men, women and children, currently for the reasons of protecting the rich, evil power brokers and terrorizing the citizens of the planet, not to protect anyone’s freedom. What is there to be proud of about that?
David Miscavige is a fool. Revenue is not a strategy.
Thanks, Mark, for sharing your story, including details of the RPF, which violates citizens’ civil rights and laws of human decency.
Amazing that a person would be interviewed specifically on no evil intentions on dm; his paranoia knows no bounds. And dollars to donuts that he personally reviews these videos as god forbid, what if the person reviewing the videos had evil int’s on dm and let someone slip through the mind-fuck machine to seek out and destroy the demeneted one. It only seems to get crazier with each new post about dm.
I got pulled in for an RTC rollback because someone reported I made a critical remark about dm 10 years prior. All very gestapo-like- you had to be there.
Welcome to the ranks of the reawakened! Your story is a compelling testimonial to the work of a psychotic, who dramatizes the personae of another midget, Napoleon. Thank you for your integrity and for sharing your experiences. It seems that there are hundreds — or more likely thousands – of us who share your reality.
You mentioned that Fred Harris was “declared”. I was very close to his wife, Fran, for many years. The last I heard of her was that she was “Books Exec Int”. Do you (or anyone reading this) know if Fran Harris still in the S.O.? If not, I’d love to get in comm with her.
Thanks for being here.
Nice to see you again. Remember me, Dominic O’Brien, working with Rene in AOLA. Give me a shout if you want. dominicnobrien at gmail com. In any case! Good to have you around! Dom
Are you the son of Laura and Jerry Boswell? If so, I know you. If they are your parents, how are they doing?
Love, Lady Minn
Dittos on all points, Jim.
I also thanked my father for what he did in WW II. And I thank all those, in and out of uniform, who stood up to, and eventually stopped, the spread of communism – a suppressive ideology responsible for the slaughter of at least 100,000,000 people – slaughter on a scale that makes Hitler look like a piker.
Loved your last sentence too – “audit the shit out of beings so reason can prevail. Sometimes.”
Has anyone yet used the phrase “Potemkin Village” to describe the public facade of the CofM?
“Potemkin villages or Potyomkin villages (Russian: Потёмкинские деревни) is an idiom based on a historical myth. According to the myth, there were fake settlements purportedly erected at the direction of Russian minister Grigory Potyomkin to fool Empress Catherine II during her visit to Crimea in 1787. According to this story, Potyomkin, who led the Crimean military campaign, had hollow facades of villages constructed along the desolate banks of the Dnieper River in order to impress the monarch and her travel party with the value of her new conquests, thus enhancing his standing in the empress’ eyes.”
Historians (as usual) are divided on the degree of truth behind the Potemkin Villages story.
However, there can be no doubt that the CofM is a Potemkin Village. All one has to do is look.
Maybe this is a case for the Citizins Commisson For Human Rights. to look into :). 25/30 years of Human Rights violations right there.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I had no idea that the raw public dissemination lines for books had been so destroyed. Amazing! Years past, you could go into any major chain bookstore and see huge displays of LRH books. Thank you for your help in getting the word out. Your story is more evidence of the suppression on the lines, and a very interesting one at that!
I realized recently that the Church of DeMonology HAS to hold onto DISCONNECTION as a policy, as a survival mechanism. The Church would empty out in days if all of the information were freely available to church members. Hell, we would communicate to our friends still in and that would be the end of that! I am actually planning a promotional campaign to my friends still in, to disseminate the true data. I know many of them have a vacuum of data about what happened to me, and I am going to fill in the “mystery sandwich”. Maybe we could put our heads together and come up with some good ways to do this.
Your photographs are very beautiful, and convey the sense of freedom one gets from being able to fully communicate with old friends and LRH’s incomparable technology. Currently, I am listening to the PDC’s, a cycle I have wanted to do for many years, which is long overdue.
Enjoy your life of freedom, and just remember Disconnection won’t last much longer. There just is no way to stop the flow of information from this small group of determined individuals who are getting the truth out! Thank you for all of your years of service to LRH and for telling your story now.
Love, Lady Minn
No acknowledgment for what RJ listed? Those were some pro-survival products.
Welcome Mark, You Sir have Balls of Steel.
“I won’t fully recount here what the PAC RPF is like. At best it is a gulag where time stands still. The only thing that makes it bearable are the some of the dedicated staff there. Some had been on the program for seven years or more. That is seven years without a day off, no contact with wife or family, no music, twenty-minute meal breaks. A phone call to your parent’s on Christmas day. A day otherwise spent cleaning floors and toilets. For the most part the RPF is kept hidden from the public and staff. For the most part, we helped build sets for the Int events and furniture for the “Ideal Orgs”.”
This is why.
Incredible Dear Leader invented policy! Just like probational SP declare.
Glad to see you free and enjoying life. Restore some balance.
Your making great choices. Freedom, Great wall of china, Hawaii?
No flies on you. If there are, they are paying rent.
Stay well . And if you want to sell books, we have a lot of authors on this blog who could always use an experts advice. Take care.
“Bankrupt and failed orgs completely under the control of COB”, that he can then sell (the real estate) for a profit, since the public paid for them (especially the Ideal Morgues). Maybe that has been the plan all along!
P.S. You can reach me at LadyMinn@hushmail.com
” RJ | October 18, 2010 at 3:26 am | Reply
We actually shut down Charter hospitals and American Medical Enterprises while I was on staff there.
Two parasitical organizations that would take some desperate kid with a drug problem strap him or her down and pump more medication into them and then completely abandon them after their insurance ran out.
(I remember walking by the FBI Task force and going to the ED asking her what are all these FBI agents doing down here?
And her saying “It’s okay their not after us.
“They just want to review all our files on AME.”)
Also we blocked Jolly West’s favorite bill to lock up black kids and feed ‘em “anti”psychotics even though they’d never committed a crime.
Plus we jailed an array of sexual predators posing as Psychiatrists that even the AMA and APA were happy to get rid of.
Not to mention blocking a plethora of Orwellian legislation.
What has anonymous done except stand around wearing silly Guy Fawkes masks and acting as the State Department’s attack Chiwawa regarding Iran?
Farce so far doesn’t begin to describe your useless actions.
But it’s a good start.”
I applaud this but what I miss in RJ is introspection into his own Organization the CCHR and how it is intertwined with the COS.
“Plus we jailed an array of sexual predators posing as Psychiatrists that even the AMA and APA were happy to get rid of.”
THIS^ More coöperation and communication.
This is why military entities have no place in a religion/philosophy/body of knowlegde/religious philosophy/aplied religious philosophy.
“What has anonymous done except stand around wearing silly Guy Fawkes masks ”
Confronted what many Scientologists did not.
“They believe that all Scientologists, even ex-Scientologists are “irredeemable idiots”.
That is a generalization.
Nicola (male name) Correa – ex RTC – Dir Disbursement CLO EU (was repeatedly refused to assume higher posts – RTC enforced)
Jacqueline Kevenar (ex WDC OSA) – posted in Estates as designer, made it into Dissem as a designer though quatrupliquantum qualled (meaning “actually capable of”, “truly competent”) for higher post, rejected to go back to Int on her re-clearances – believed to be out now.
William Tucker – ex RTC – posted in Base Crew EU – now out
others I don’t recall their names of right now.
Hi Mark – my respect for your products and congrats for being out.
This seems to be the pattern with all the many producers of real products surfacing on this and other boards:
If you followed LRH, you got into trouble
If you applied it smartly, you were in deep shit
If you were brilliant in bringing it into life, a certain somebody went nuts
(and acted accordingly)
But as the producers left or are leaving a very sick puppy-church is not going to survive it.
Welcome back to Scientology.
Marsha Pearlman Sorensen
Sounds just like my SP “Auntie” “How dare they this, how dare they that” “they have such audacity”
I refer to her as Medusa
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Marine Corps. My husband did two tours in Vietnam Special Forces. Marines have a fierce loyalty to the Corp that cannot be broken..ever. If I had to choose between being a Marine in war and an SO member under that little sack of pus, DM, I would choose the former.
The hole, disconnection, constant eval and inval, sleep deprivation, brutal interegations, beatings, poor nutrition, little or no pay as a reward for years of loyal service? Weak minded? You’ve got to be kidding! The fact that anyone comes out of a situation like that with any semblance of sanity is a testament to the strength of those who dedicated their lives to help mankind and got shit on for their efforts.
So, I say “how dare you NOT acknowledge what these people have gone through to help mankind?” You have obviously not been in the SO.
The church doesn’t get any results any more anywhere hardly or no results at all and the entire Sea Org is running around like madmen in search of the “Emporer’s New Clothes”. It is surrealistic. It is like singing and dancing all day to music “Hurrah, we’re going out of business for sure on Tuesday!”
I really admired LRH when I was in Scientology and I still do and I believe that the return of LRH will be marked by the departure of David Miscavige.
It must be heart-breaking for you (like so many others on this blog) to come to the conclusion that you want to do the right thing – even if it costs you friendships – congratulations for doing the right thing. Sorry for the loss of your marriage.
Mark, congratulations for coming forward and speaking out. Thru your time line I can see that we have crossed paths, even if only at a distance, and I would ike to ask you some questions about some of those time periods, if you don’t mind. Please E-Mail me seperately at Nancy@MyBillionYear.com.
Wow, you really think that’s why good people join the military? To be robotic killers? That’s astonishing. Does this sound familiar: PRICE OF FREEDOM: CONSTANT ALERTNESS, CONSTANT WILLINGNESS TO FIGHT BACK. THERE IS NO OTHER PRICE.
Thanks for your story, and all your efforts and success in the past to promote source to raw public. Your story, and Jeff Hawkins’ book, show perfectly well how COB has been determined to destroy Scn, though as evidenced by this blog alone he is failing as the truth will out. As a side note, I was a Div 6er at the old Santa Clara mission, and later at CCLA for 10 years. Towards the end my time in the SO, early to mid-80’s, I saw the tide change, the relationship with field auditors and FSMs fractured, and the stat push mentality “trickled down” apparently from COB, to where we in Div 6 were being pushed for ‘Basics to Majors’ at all costs, and new basic course starts were secondary, not to mention book sales to raw public. Thank you again for stepping forward.
Erwin Croughs and RJ I love you for fighting wrongs in the world like many Anonymous protesters do too.
You as Individuals are needed in this world.
But I am frightened by your reaction to me, not frightened for myself but for others. Ídialism sometimes crosses the boundary into Fanatism into Extremism.
It is that “gradïent” that makes my alarmbells go of with the two of you.
Why ? Because all the PI’s, Suïcides, targeting of Individuals and internal cover-ups.
I want to understand you two better. What I specificly want to know were do you two draw the line ? And are you aware of what the COS uses the CCHR for ?
Hi Joe – I can’t find anything untrue in your post, but the spirit of accusation is not really uplifting. Why don’t you look at your own track at the times you were a soldier? Maybe you killed more people than Nadaspamma.
Jim, wonderful for reply. Just loved it.
Er… Also from me.
Just as in Scientology, there are good and bad people in any service unit on the planet. It is always a matter of the tonelevel. Abu Graibh can’t be blamed on Scientology, but rather on the LACK of on-tech Scientology in the military. Neither can’t Tim McVeigh being blamed on Scientology.
This sounds familiar. Two marines found beating someone:
Anybody in the military an innocent and good person? Absolutely no!
Yes. I believe Jeff Hawkins used it recently.
At least Marines, SEALs, Green Berets, Pink Berets, etc. all get paid, have medical & dental care, decent food & other benefits, for becoming robots, and murderers. However, the military services does not offer them a means to as-is their trauma.
While, in all honesty, I disagree with a lot of what you say and how you say it … I could not agree with you more in this response to Revenimus.
We live on what has been and continues to be a violent world. Politics aside, we would not have our current civilization, liberties and relative wealth, comfort and freedoms except for those sacrifices made by individuals serving in the military.
Politics aside, American military actions have arguably created the majority of positive geopolitical gain, and preventing loss of such in the world if only the war of independance, founding of the US, WW1 & 2 and halting the expansion and ultimate colapse of the soviet union (Cold War). While signifant question remains on the political soundness of other wars such as Korea, Vietnam, and Gulf, demeaning military servicepeople, who have and continue to sacrifice tremendously for the belief of freedom, liberty and human rights, while in the same sentence promoting Sea Org members supporting DMs church as superior is vile and repulsive.
I am a long term SO Vet that has been fortunate enough, since leaving, to befriend and work with many ex US military, and Marines. These people who LIVE by a code, not by convenience, but by choice of their life and sacrifice, are often, if not mostly, better and more consistant examples of humanity than I experienced in a two decades in the Church of Scientology. Church members use their codes in convenience, they disconnect, abandon friends and family for political reasons, or personal gain (being able to continue towards “spiritual freedom”), or to prevent loss of status, prestigue or money.
Were I given the choice of starting a new civilization with Church of Scientology members, Staff and SO; or a bunch of Marines and other military, I would unquestionably choose the later.
Respectfully, Revenimus is an idiot, if not an @ss. Were he in public, making statements as he made above, whether or not ex military were present, I would be the first to beat some sense and manners into him.
I do know those guys and am saddened at their acceptance of their being thrown under the bus, by obvious insanity and anti-LRH Policy. It would not appear that the scene would improve for them and it’s just a matter of time until each reaches their last straw, or kindling temperature, melting point or such. Perhaps it’s the perception of numbers – how can 21/2% and 20% become over 50%?
Dear Mark McKinstry, (there are MANY Mark’s here 🙂 )
Thank you for your story. It brought back some memories.
I salute your departure and wish you great success in your current and future endeavors.
The Army attracts often brutal people just as the Cath. Church attracts pedophiles.
Google soldiers or Marines + crimes, beatings, abuse, women, children, murder and you won’t believe your eyes.
As a Scientologist, I am appalled when somebody posts that they are better than I am.
Hello Mark, do you know by any chance about DM’s involvement in Battlefield Earth? Do you know why that movie is so much worse than the interesting book?
your story is just incredible. You had lot of persistence, and we will soon post your story translated in italian!
Jean-François Genest likes this
I think she’s talking about recent dox (not this posting) such as the recording of the attack on Mike and photos of such things as Tom Cruise’s lounge built by Sea Org labor.
I agree with you that the military has it’s place when force is needed to combat irrational SP groups. My point was that if military groups have the common decency to salvage their own injured or dead from the battlefield, then I would expect the same from Scientology where it’s most dedicated have given their all.
Some men and women dedicate themselves to the military and others have dedicated themselves to helping people from the reactive mind.
For DM to trash the best and the brightest of Scientology is a true tragedy in my opinion. Non-Scientologists may not get this, but I am sure there are plenty out there that do.
Hi Unity Mitford,
I’m pretty sure that Maria was referrig to the many DOX that Marty and Mike have provided in the past days, weeks and months (e.g. audio recordings, video recordings, letters to attorneys, etc.) Correct me if I’m wrong, Maria.
No, that’s not me. I do know of them but have not spoken in years. From what I have heard, J & L are no longer together. Each has re-married and are doing fine. Jonathan is married now too. Great people, but no… that’s not me.
Tears in my eyes. Beautiful Cowboy.
Daniel is in all our thoughts.
Dang Cowboy… heavy stuff right there.
Well done though. You’re name is well deserved.
I think this pendulum swing to the other side ought to end this thread on military. I find the entire diversion utterly disrespectful to Mark, who is standing tall – irrespective of whether the military is honorable, cowardly, needed or not. Mike, please trash any further military diversions.
See, that’s what pisses me off sooooo much. What’s to stop him? Is there anything to stop that? All the real estate and mest he could dump tomorrow and vanish to some far away place with no extradition laws. I think I could go vigilanty over something like that.
The org board, whatever checks and balances it MIGHT have had, failed in the end. Whatever happens next time around… this is going to be a huge factor in the re-organization.
Thanks for your backup Marty.
Actually the funny thing was we got all kinds of kudos from the press and the FBI for all their good work (I can’t take credit since I was merely their Auditor) yet nary a mention of our successes at any Scientology event which I felt was kinda strange.
The only thing that Davy raved about was Jan Eastgate’s success in shutting down Chemsford in Queensland Australia.
Oh by the way CD.
If we had of known the abuses occurring in the Church particularly at Int Base we may have turned our guns in that direction because we were relatively independent and autonomous at the time which may have been a problem with certain factions within the Church.
In fact we had formed an Adhoc committee to kill Hilary’s secret Orwellian health care plan while Cruise, Travolta, Van Sustren and her husband Coale were sucking up to and getting cozy with the Clinton Administration which might have put us in someone’s sights because it was after this that CCHR was “restructured” a euphemism for effectively neutralized.
After this CCHR Int became the Punch and Judy and Dog and Pony show you see today with its grotesque Museum of Psychiatry and their ineffective and feckless war against psychiatry.
Also I do acknowledge anonymous’ efforts at “protest PR” however in my opinion they have become as ineffective and trite as these “protests” that CCHR currently sponsors against psychiatry.
Not to mention the fact that it is obvious that anonymous is being played regarding their exclusive support for the opposition in Iran while there are regimes who happen to be even more repressive so repressive and Stalinisque that they make Iran look like a democratic paradise who just happen to be NATO allies which anonymous seems to ignore.
The onley things expanding are his EGO, IAS funds and Real Estate.
If DM is the onley “scientologist” left in the church he will own it all.
As of 3 days ago, she is still the Public Officer at AOLA. Still on post.
Fred Harris was one of the few SO members who received a Kha Khan from the Ol’man.
Been there done that.
Not only did I get RB but also the enhance interrogation technique known as the TRD.
I was surprised that waterboarding was included as part of the rundown but I guess I got lucky 🙂
Meant to say “wasn’t part of the rundown” but you get the general gist.
I hear they added it after I left by throwing people in a cesspool on the Int Base or something like that.
Anyway this is sort of what the TRD was like for me:
Hi Mark, a very warm welcome to our group!! So happy you are with us..
hope to meet you at one point!!
You lose a lot of friends (friends?) but you gain real one… great great people in the independent field!!
May you find yourself totaly healed – enjoy the real word – not perfect though – but not only bad and full of good human beings with compassionate heart!
May you recover your freedon with this step tof freedom of ”speech” and may you find yourself a happy man on his ”own” road without any ”cult” or ”sacred policies” to dictate your taughts and life!
Congratulation for your courage and Enjoy your new way of living -YoOur true own spiritual journey has already begun on a new way to freedom!
(growing in the mud – the Lotus rises above the surface to bloom with remarkable beauty
as “the spirit of the best of men is spotless, like the lotus in the muddy water which does not adhere to it.” )
I don’t see RJ’s original comment, thanks for quoting it CD. CCHR did indeed do some good things in the beginning. Having worked in psychiatry at one time myself, I felt strongly that CCHR was founded on a noble purpose and was in fact achieving in that direction of reforming psychiatry.
CCHR’s purpose was to “move psychiatry on up a little higher”. One way CCHRwas betrayed from within scientology was, the IAS refused virtually all grant requests, essentially leaving CCHR to “twist slowly in the wind”. Of course the IAS cut across any attempt by CCHR to solicit donations. If even 1/5 of the IAS donations had gone to CCHR, it might have continued to be an effective organization. Instead, it was the lack of funds that may have driven it to become the grotesque traveling sideshow and little else.
In the end, being in David Miscavige’s orbit , CCHR was nullified and twisted to become what it is today.
After all, CCHR was created to expose and help reform brutality and degradation in the area of mental practices. Miscavige certainly could not allow CCHR to shine it’s light on and examine what he himself was doing! So he had to destroy it along with anyone else who might possibly obnose him.
It is just another example of who Miscavige really is.
Also, it makes little sense to me, to speak of Anonymous as a generality, any more than it does to speak of “scientology” as a generality. Despite their “cloaking of anonymity”, it is a very loosely associated bunch of individuals each having his/her own purposes and motives. For example, it is Anonymous individuals who have done a lot of the collecting and uploading of original LRH lectures and other materials to web-based storage sites, making them availbale world-wide.
“Not to mention the fact that it is obvious that anonymous is being played regarding their exclusive support for the opposition in Iran while there are regimes who happen to be even more repressive so repressive and Stalinisque that they make Iran look like a democratic paradise who just happen to be NATO allies which anonymous seems to ignore.”
One picks the battles one thinks one can do something about. About wikileaks ;). Pretty intertwined with Anonymous vbut you will bnever hear from the ones who help asange directly.
What medication do you see as usefull ?
RJ, I agree with a lot of what you say about CCHR – see my comment which somehow is just above yours. I was not close to the scene like you were, but it appears we have come to remarkably similar conclusions about what happened to CCHR – it could have spotlighted what Davey was actually doing, andofcourse he couldn’t have that.
I do think the Anonymous demonstrations are more effective than you think, and if anything, increasing their numbers and frequency would be a good thing. Especially if they find effective themes for their signs and communications to the org staff and the public passing by, and if they could get some media interviews to back up BBC and Anderson Cooper’s shows, it would be awesome. But Ithink they are keeping the CoS in their foxholes with a bunker mentality. That’s good.
“The only thing that Davy raved about was Jan Eastgate’s success in shutting down Chemsford in Queensland Australia.”
Davey had stock in the competitor of Chemsford ?
Congrats to Mr. McKinstry!
It’s always amazing to see mass liquidations of upstats, total nonsensical actions, explainable only by insanity.
Hitler hounded all his top-flight physicists right out of Germany, as well as physicists in nearby European nations he dominated. Most of these went straight to the USA, where they gave America the A-Bomb theories, which US $$ and industrial might made real before the end of WW II..
Miscavige keeps filling the ranks of his enemies with an incredible array of talented people.
This marketing guy, Mark, is another prime example.
Anyway, my wife and I were speculating last night on whether DM has squirreled away any $$ for his eventual escape. He will need a LOT because 3rd World dictators don’t stay bought.
He might be better off starting a schism of his own, where a small band of loyal, demented slaves and he could play the game of “we are the only TRUE Scientology” and “someday Ron will return to anoint us”.
Mark, I don’t think I know you but it’s unlikely we haven’t met while in LA. That being said, I’m very happy to read your message. I know it’s difficult, but the more people such as yourself get the message out as to what REALLY HAS BEEN OCCURRING in the church, the more people can be helped (not just the internal ones, but over the long run as well).
Anyway, I applaud you for this and wish you the best.
I saw the dirty profit potential IMMEDIATELY in the Ideal Org Scam.
I asked a remaining Scientology public friend about this, and he dutifully went to one of the OT VIIIs (who had been dragooned into pumping the public for funds). He assured my friend that “Oh no – the building will belong to the local org, totally under ITS control”.
And if you believe that? There’s a bridge in Brooklyn you might want to invest in.
What is TRD?
One can also take a quick cruise through a given org’s parking lot during what SHOULD be peak hours.
When all you see is a very few cars, some of them very dilapidated? You don’t need a SPY satellite or help from the CIA to know what’s going on!
By contrast, you should have seen a certain Class IV org I was at during the 70s. The org had suddenly *boomed* due to certain key LRH actions actually being done. The youthful staff suddenly had money! Most of them bought motorcycles, so at noon there was an explosion of bikes firing up, blasting off to local restaurants.
Funny how they hadn’t had to shake down the public for several million in donations “in order to boom”. This org just did it by tech delivery! Frankly? Not the HIGHEST quality delivery, a lot of stat pushing, but valid delivery was going on just the same.
There was a lot of stress on staff, but also a lot of up-tone hi jinks.
“For example, it is Anonymous individuals who have done a lot of the collecting and uploading of original LRH lectures and other materials to web-based storage sites, making them availbale world-wide.”
In coöperation with our friends from Wikileaks, wikipedia and Piratebay. All targeted by the COS. Alsoo Youtube and Vimeo are targeted always. A lot of actions anons do you do not see in the street but happen on the net.
It undercuts the copyright claimes. Too many targets for the COS too atack. Overwhelm. DM wants more many: Starve Orgs of public. Starve Bridge publications. Starve any subsidary of the COS of intake of “raw meat”
Spread information: Knowledge is and should always be free
“Information wants to be free” -Wikileaks
for the numbers: We need YOU. You can be “anonymous” too. Would it not be something to call up all your old CCHR buddies and organize a big protest against the abuses on L Ron Hubbard Way.
Hell All independents could bring ARC and friendly signs.
I have a target for you to beat and it is over 9000 😉
This “Marine” thing is just an incorrect inclusion.
SO and USMC both wear uniforms and do drills. After that, the admin scales of these two groups diverge like the SRBs during the Challenger explosion.
A good buddy is an ex-marine. I’m glad they are there, for the purpose they are there for (to slaughter as many of the designated bad guys in the shortest possible time, and to mess up their MEST).
Surely, this cannot be compared to the Sea Org’s purposes.
“Being kicked out to the Sea Org meant the end of my career, my marriage, 22 years of work. This was the ethics gradient for non-compliance to a COB order. A destructive order at that.”
Dear Mark. Would you like to share what made you fall in love with your wife to hear what good things she incorperates without the suppression.
Yes but CD when “the battle” draws you into an invidious connection to the corrupt pillars of power and supports their war mongering agenda which has happened to a large degree with the Church of Scientology.
Freedom Rag for example other than being a fluff piece for Miscavige it seems has become a cheerleader for any US Aggression especially if its cloaked in “human rights” which is what this whole Iran thing is all about.
Therefore you ironically find anonymous working for the same people who currently are holding the Church of Scientology hostage.
This should give you pause.
Thank you for this.
Is it safe?? Exactly.
Probably marijuana and other herbal remedies which is why I support its legalization.
Definitely not that mind numbing poison being pumped out by big pharma code named “medication”.
However that said I think they should legalize all decriminalize all drugs.
1) because I’m a libertarian.
but 2) most importantly:
So those bastards have competition and the CIA and other terrorists will be forced to find another source of income.
Yes they might be effective if they attacked the actual abuses and stopped attacking the religion, its Founder and everything Scientology.
All this does is insulate and isolate the Scientologists you are supposedly trying to “save” by convincing them that your message is nothing but entheta.
By the way this is the same tactic that the Church currently uses against Psychiatry which is a generality and therefore causes ARCXs because it is unreal.
Glad you are out, Mark. Thank you for your courage and integrity.
“Quit hiding and the tacit agreement by NOT standing up to this BS that’s going on. Just QUIT IT!
If everybody slighted would stand up and say F U cuz I’m NOT doing this anymore or taking this anymore – boom, David Miscavige’s pretend world comes crashing down! That simple.”
Charlie Rush was an Academy Sup at the original CC on 8th St.. In order to pass TR0 you had to get by his Pirate schtick checkout to pass. Very entertaining to experience on all flows.
So full of enthusiasm, good cheer and purpose.
There are many extremely good people who’s lives have been seriously harmed by Miscavige and his SO thuggery.
Mark, I wish you the best and I too hope Renee finds her way out soon. She’s a good girl putting up the good fight.
I do see value of various medication taylored to the person. I heared to many of people being janked of their meds.
Cancer, Epilepsy, shizophrenia, DISS, clinical depression, multiple sclerose, asthma, various allergies.
What do you think about autism ? The church suddenly held a fundraiser for PR reasons were i before denied it’s existance.
I KNOW it exists because I have eyes in my head.
Thanks for stepping up and telling your story. I remain in awe of most SO members in and out.
Spending over 2.5 years in the RPF is mind boggling to me.
I hope your story is read by many. It is Ex-SO like you who will make it easier for others to confront the evil of COB and get to this blog to tell their story.
Welcome to true independence.
Thank you so very much for speaking out.
…and thank you for all those years of service in the Sea Org and on staff.
I really wish the abuses never happened. If anything after the initial protests the jounalists weren’t afraid anymore to report about the COS. HUGE WIN. It was pretty arraogant with their lawyers. all being the boss/dominant over the newspapers and media.
Such a veil apparatus. I am glad they got their ass kicked in the Netherlands. Moxon and others.
Ying Ling and Moxon are the ones keeping DM’s boat floating.
Again we need YOU to protest. bring it home. Use that organizing talent you have and organize a big one.
You can do it, I believe you can.
Independent Scientologists for Human Rights
It just keeps getting better and better. You can’t stop the truth no matter how much power and money you have. DM is on his way out (of the church and his eternity) and deservedly so. One less SP we’ll have to deal with.
I think I know you as well. Do you have a safe email addresss?
I wish they had put more value in the expertise of this man:
He got demoted and not listened too. Maybe even made fun of.
A thought from this evening:
The Church of David Miscarriage is a poor counterfeit of the real thing. Sort of like comparing gold and lead. One has value that’s considered eternal and one’s been found to be toxic.
Hence, may Miscarriage rest in peace (RIP). He can take his attorneys and apparatus with him. That includes the implant stations.
Freedom rings. Truth reigns. Always.
ML, Tom Gallagher
(Although, don’t we all seek some form of redemption?)
No, it is more of a grass roots thing. The mulahs prevent the people who are on average young from chosing the leaders they want. The Mulahs can disqualify candidates they disasaprove of.
I actually worked on an aspergages farm with a asylum seeking Iraqy and an Asylum seeking Iranian who was young indeed. They got along fine wich goes to show It all comes down to the leaders and that you are right in RJ. Maybe Ahmedjinidad is the transitional figur. I hope soo. There is a whole country aching to be free from the strict religious rule of the old mulahs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Zamaneh
“Radio Zamaneh was among a list of foreign organizations, including media outlets and human rights groups, which Iran’s Intelligence Ministry placed on a blacklist over their alleged role in fomenting the unrest that followed the disputed presidential election in June 2009.”
“However, the military services does not offer them a means to as-is their trauma.”
Neither does the present S.O under Demon Miscavige!
And Mark and Friends,
I sometimes relay inspirations from the past: From MLK – Let Freedom Ring. History repeats. Let’s continue to get it on. Hear these words. They echo…..
Thruth Run Down ?
Thank you for your wonderful dedication AND for your realization that you needed to leave the DM-S.O.!
I gratefully salute you! 🙂
There are two ways to get routed out if th SO instantly; no sec check or routing form:
1: claim to have suicidal thoughts
2: Claim to have thoughts of hurting DM.
“A Mother’s Thoughts” (of a sad mistake) is the way I read this. Thank you.
There are stories recently on this blog about orgs that THOUGHT the buildings they paid for would belong to the local org, only to find out that they did not in the end own them, and THEY HAD TO PAY RENT. I have been in real estate since the age of 18, (was the youngest real estate broker in my state) and this is the REAL ESTATE SCAM TO END ALL REAL ESTATE SCAMS. Imagine, you get local opinion leaders to lead the way in obaining donations with the locals thinking it will belong to their local group; the building and the renos and all the furniture and fixtures end up belonging to CSI (or to whomever it is deeded) and then you make them pay rent. So when the local staff, who are too small to occupy that much space, shrink and fail, the powers that be say”Oh, too bad, you failed, (under our suppression) and now we have to sell the building because you can’t pay the rent.” It is criminality on a scale that is simply unbelievable. The only scam I know of bigger than that is using an empty building, (Super Power Building) to raise hundreds of millions of dollars that is then used for other buildings (Oak Cove, etc) and God knows what else. Under the guise of religion, the C of DeMonology has become the biggest real estate scammer on the planet! Of course this is my opinion, and if anyone here knows of a bigger real estate scam, please let me know because I want to hear about it!!!!!
Thanks Bozz, glad that’s cleared up. Kept wondering about that. Know J & L and their respective new spouses; just didn’t know if you were their son.
Love your posts!
I do agree with meds that are prescribed to handle an actual physical condition.
But clinical depression????
There’s no such animal.
Just because it is listed in the DSM doesn’t mean its a real “illness”.
I suggest you read Szasz’s ‘Myth of Mental Illness’.
Also this rationalization that “I blew ’em away ’cause I was off my meds” is about as irresponsible as it gets and compares favorably to “I jacked the car ’cause I was jonesing for a fix”.
Give me a break!
Noted that I also wrote that I felt all drugs should be legalized not just those put out by IG Farben and approved by the corrupt FDA.
All with a caveat emptor,
The Truth Rundown.
It’s actually a rundown that was developed to handle actual Black Propaganda.
However in order to actually handle it you have to know what it is which is something that currently is a gross misunderstood or “crashing mis-u” within the Church today.
Also you have the fact that the RD has been completely and utterly perverted so much so that it more closely approximates the following:
And the above 4 minute blip from ‘Marathon Man’.
RJ and CD, Take a win. I think your provocative debate spurred a spam attack against this blog. I am not complaining – the more attacks, the higher the ratings. I don’t know of anything else that happened today that might engender such a response. Just for your bullpen RJ.
It’s clear you believe strongly there’s no such thing as ‘clinical depression’. By that I mean a long-term, hard to unseat, deeply debilitating condition of depression that makes the sufferer unable to function in life, unable to find meaning to life, no longer want to live and even consider or attempt or succeed at suicide.
But I will tell you, based on my own observations of loved ones’ behavior, I believe differently.
I think it is called apathy.
Thanks for sharing your story.
I’m postulating that your friends and family still in will have a chance to read your story to help them WAKE UP and follow your footsteps to FREEDOM!!!
Thank you for sharing your experience and work. Yes, when up statistics get punished, that’s a definite red flag. I pulled a few of those strings myself along the road to seeing the actuality. It seems so incredible, but…there it is. Up statistics punished. Loud and clear. Very well done and making it through one of the gnarliest illusions and formidable disguises of evil, to untangle the truth and keep all the good that is true.
Gary and Margaret, you are correct – I am indeed referring to the videos, etc. that Marty and Mike have been releasing on the blog AND I am thanking Mark for his account of what happened to him. I am well aware that Mark’s story is not documented, but as Marty and Mike have so rightly pointed out, it is certainly consistent with reports from other individuals who were in the Sea Org.
Lawrence – I agree that the C of S appears to be quite batty at this point, but it seems to me that any organization that becomes as isolated as the Sea Org has is going to have a weird view of the world and come up with even weirder solutions. I also agree that there is not going to be any return of LRH materials until DM is gone for good and a really heavy duty clean up action is done. But I don’t see this happening any time soon and maybe never – I believe the future of Scientology will be with the Independents – its the only way to diassociate from the utter mess that DM and crew have made and restore people’s interest and respect in/for the subject.
Bravo to Mike, Marty, Geir and a number of others (including those who started doing this many years ago) for participating in the long process of establishing the difference between Scientology as a philosophy/practice and the Church of Scientology I don’t think Scientology has any future at all unless this is thoroughly addressed.
Again thanks everybody, and special thanks for Marty and Mosey and whoever else works on approving all these comments!!!
Personally I think their role model for this Ideal Org scam is BCCI, Franklin S&L and Nugan Hand Bank with a little AIG thrown into the mix.
Their probably selling Ideal Org derivatives as we write.
Welcome to the free world and please speak up and share your stories. I’m happy for you!
My theory is that the press were being respectful of “Tom Cruise’s faith”, since he had effectively put a human face on the whole thing. At least until he decided to act “inhuman”, i.e. bash Matt Lauer, Brooke Shields, ALL of psychiatry and then announced to the world that “only Scientologists” can truly help others (or that’s how it came across). Anonymous capitalized on the CoM’s attempts to suppress this latter one.
It all would have likely died down by now and the CoM would be happily going about its abusive business, imho, if Marty, Mike and many others who worked at the Int Base (Hemet) had not come forward in the last couple years.
This is not meant to discount every whistleblower of the last 25 years, but it did take both the Internet and the whistleblowing of these Int Base leaders/members to really drive a lethal blow into the underbelly of the Miscavige dragon.
And lets hope more lethal blows keep coming.
Anoname, I believe what RJ is referring to, is the “biopsychiatric” proposition that all “depression” is biologically based, a primarily physical condition. He is not denying that a person can get depressed.
“Clinical” means “observable”. Many people can be observed(obnosed) to be “depressed”. That does not mean the condition has a physical cause, although it can have physical results.
I would think, many of the staff in the Sea Org would be “clinically depressed” right now. “Robotism” is one of the symptoms. Does this mean they need antidepressant drugs because their condition is caused by biochemistry? NO. Their depression is caused by the suppression they are under, that they have internalized.
In my youth, I worked in psychiatry for many years, and witnessed the shift from an emphasis on th emind and experience of a person, to the view that “mental illness” is a physical disease. I won’t go into why this shift happened, but it is largely a false view that does not benefit most patients, because it has led to the wholesale prescription of psychoactive drugs without any psychological testing being done. This does financially benefit MD psychiatrists.
(Well Marty, you may get more spam attacks now, this time sponsored by the AMA! 🙂 )
RJ, I think your impressions of Anonymous may be based too much on reading the WWP site, rather than viewing the actual demonstrations. These are two different animals.
I could be wrong, but my impression is that many/most of the signs Anons carry at their demos are directed at specific abuses. I doubt signs attacking LRH are prevalent.
Many Anons will say their goal is to stop the abuses of the CoS. A minority are “haters” who just like to stomp on things and are on that bandwagon. Just as in the 60s and70s, most antiwar protesters were not “radical” or violent. A minority were. (Perhaps 2 1/2 % , + some who were under the influence of those?) Most were rationally opposed to the Vietnam war etc, but not support the actions of the Weather Underground, for example.
RJ, here’s a couple of links which show Anon signs and many are targeting specific abuses like disconnection and the money-grubbing of Miscavige’s “tshurtsh”:
Of course most people don’t know the difference between “scientology” and the “Church of Scientology”. Over the past decades, Scientologists themselves never made the distinction until now, when push really comes to shove. Most of the people I knew back in the 1970/80s have long since been declared or left anyway. They knew the difference, but nobody was listening to them….
Now we suddenly realize what an important distinction it is.
I’m glad CD and I were of some service.
Actually I thought we covered quite a few interesting topics in our discussion and debate.
I hope CD feels the same way.
As for the spam.
We probably stepped on a few toes as well.
I guess good ol’ axiom 10 would apply.
I don’t know what the COS currently uses CCHR for but when I was there its purpose was to handle psychiatric abuses of human rights and to align ourselves with independent psychiatrists and other mental health practitioners involved in the anti psychiatry movement.
Again as I’ve written earlier you should pick up a copy of ‘The Myth of Mental Illness’ and ‘The Manufacture of Madness’ both written by the noted Psychiatrist Dr. Thomas Szasz.
(Not that pretentious pap written by Bruce Wiseman which is what Tom Cruise tried to shove down Matt Lawry’s throat)
To find out what the objectives of CCHR were before they became the foil of the Psychiatry.
Thank you Mark for sharing your story here and thank you for your dedication and hard work in the SO. It is no surprise just why DM would target and get rid of you. Welcome among friends.
RJ, really important differentiation you made here.
Long live Axiom TEN.
Making that distinction is Major Target Number Two here.
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“My theory is that the press were being respectful of “Tom Cruise’s faith”, since he had effectively put a human face on the whole thing. ”
Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 19:20 ET
The press vs. Scientology
After years of conflict, the church and the media seem to have reached a truce. Is it because Scientology has become less confrontational — or because the press is scared?
By Joe Strupp”
Jan Eastgate has long toes it seems and I step on them every chanche I get.
Jan Eastgate I dispise you for covering up child abuse of an 11 year old and a lot more that I do not kow of I am sure of that.
I think you are a mentally insane psychopath like your slavemaster David Miscavige. I really mean that heey Moxon fancy a visit? You poor exuse for a man.
Ying Ling you Harpy. I know you try to hide and keep clear of your slavemaster David “Nipplehead”Miscavige.
You don’t like to be called nipplehead don’t you Davey boy.
Well okay than ratface Miscavige come and get me.
You are a looser. You can not get me Miscavige. You are Impotent, not capable. David you are a disgrace you little todler. No I should have said you little troll.
David Miscavige King of the Trolls: Ying Ling. Kendrick L Moxon, Jan Easgate and all the other worms that are crawling around in that festering open sespool of push that is the creation of the criminal wifebeating drugadict leader david Miscavige.
I laugh in your face.
My wife and I both cheered when we saw the first video that anonymous made which directly attacked Miscavige and RTC.
So in the beginning they had made the distinction.
However, after that the group deteriorated into its get Scientology mode which you see on WWP.
Then it was obvious to me that the group could easily be hijacked when they started promoting the State Department’s agenda for “regime change” in Iran.
Not to mention the sudden appearance of Boris on the scene.
At that point you might as well put a sign on the group saying:
As far as I’m concerned they have gone the same route as Moral Rearmament, the National Students Association, the Congress for Cultural Freedom, the Unification Church and yes the Church of Scientology in being influenced and controlled by the Espiocracy for political purposes.
Fred Harris was declared? Seriously?
He is a good friend of mine and I haven’t been able to get in comm with him for quite awhile.
Does anyone here have more details?
If there is any proof of this that I can show people?
Believe me, the field out here will go ballistic.
He’s a GREAT guy, fun to hang with after events and party with late into the evening.
LRH gave him Kha Khan because, in LRH’s own words to Fred “You’ll need it” as he was walking off the Apollo on a mission.
Psychiatrist Dr. Thomas Szasz. I know of him I think he is unfair an takes shorcuts on the existance on ADHD/ ADD albeit OFTEN wrongly diagnosed and OVERmedicated in the USA.
My PERSONAL expierience with psychatrists here in the Netherlands is that they are not the pill pushers I always see in Scientology Anti-psych ads.
What I HATE is that the CCHR and the COS as it is NOW dicards brainresearch, MRI scans and so on and so forth as poppy cock.
The Brain may be part of MEST but it is where many “disorders” can be located. To be blind for the advances in the neurosciences would be fending of a part of knowledge or knowing as you will. Unknowingly to himself Hubbard did promisse Neuroplasticity through the practise of Scientology.
Yes but WWP would be like a broadsheet was like back in the days before the ‘net.
It gives a general synopsis of the groups world view.
I’m not saying that anonymous doesn’t have every right to protest or make their views known however regarding the organization and the religion of Scientology.
Regarding the Weathermen and the Peace Movement in general. You know that they were heavily infiltrated by the FBI under COINTELPRO and CIA under MH/CHAOS (however a little known fact was that many of operatives sent in especially under CHAOS switched sides and became antiwar. In fact CIA was one of the few Government agencies that participated in the Moratorium against the war.) according to the Church Committee.
However I doubt if a similar thing would occur today because the agency has become less politically independent these days and more bureaucratic (I’m referring to Tenet’s “slam dunk” despite the fact that the CIA’s own analysts said that any weapons of mass destruction Iraq had had been destroyed shortly after the sanctions) like ….the Church of Scientology… where everyone toes the party line for fear of being ostracized or in the case of the latter sent to “the hole”.
I see anonymous going in a similar direction of “cohesion” where independent thought or disagreement is punished in some way and those “radical” views expressed by a few become the norm just as in the case of the CIA when the neocons took over.
Thus I prefer to be independent any currently not align myself with any group right now.
Tell me how Jan Eastgate contributed to the abuse of an 11 year old boy?
I’m very interested in the story and I promise not to invalidate or evaluate anything you say about it.
THAT VIDEO and the videos of Wise Beard Man have been my Stable Datums if you will.
Fred was one of the first Sea Org members I met when I first got into Scientology this LT.
A very cool dude who used to keep us staff members up into the wee hours of the morning telling us about life on the Apollo or just shooting the sh*t.
The last time I saw him was in the late ’90’s early 2000 (?) when he was working with Diana on a Dianetic book promotion of some kind.
The Iran thing? as we say on WWP : Stay on target
The Why We Protest Iran has a seperate website now. I NEVER go there. But some young Anons feel strongly about it. And that comes out of themselves. Out of their hearts and no comment from you RJ can change that.
Most Scientology Protes Anons are not Involved or Intrested in the Iran bit. Stay on target !
RJ it is not my story 😉 Here you go you Chief Executive of the new ISHR
GREAT YOUR OUT !
KGB CIA FBI, one great lulzfest
I think you will understand it. But that is okay. I think this might be the higher knowledge of the Internet not obtained by auditing or processing.
You may get a glimps but never grasp the whole picture.
I give you one more chanche
Oh and appearantly Anonyomus is “The Demon God of The Internet”
And RJ what did Hubbard say about being (too) serious 😉
Pssst RJ, Stephen Colbert is one of us. hush hush
me? not really.
Hell, I’ll post it, was going to switch to another provider soon anyway: email@example.com
drop a line 🙂
“The Brain may be part of MEST but it is where many “disorders” can be located.”
My point of view on this is that we are so tightly bound to our bodies here that you can easily lose track of where the monkey’s thinking stops and yours starts. And to further obfuscate the matter, the monkey’s brain is divided amongst the Reptillian, Paleo-Mammalian and Neo-Mammalian structures, each “layer” a product of evolution.
Hey Mark (and anyone lurking, still worried about leaving), here’s one
thing that *really* helped me, when I was waking up, pre leaving. (I know you’ve left—but just in case there are any things lingering re “Friends”).
I’d written to Andreas (from Norway)–telling him I couldn’t stop crying, once I began waking UP.
So I wrote to him (who else was I going to say this to?) –telling him I couldn’t stop crying, that IF I left, I’d lose ALL of my 30 year “friends” and my husband of 27 years. (July, 2000)
He wrote me back, telling me he was crying reading my e-mail, and he was SO sorry I had to go through this. BUT he had to ask me this one question:
“What kind of friends could those be, if they’re going to leave you, because you changed your mind?”
That, for me, cracked my Scio-Truman Show wide open (my name
for C of $ and their traps).
Just thought I’d share that with you, and ALL who may be lurking
and having similar thoughts. Again, congratulations to you on leaving and sharing your story with all! 🙂 🙂
“Jan Eastgate was at the time the head of the Citizen’s Commission on Human Rights in Australia, an organisation founded by the church that campaigns against psychiatry. She now heads up the commission globally and is based in Los Angeles.”
There was something I didn’t instinctually like about her.
Thanks again CD for confirming my hunch.
Hey I love cats too!
Does that mean I’m a member of anonymous 😉
More along that line – CD, why not study “the Hand”. Look, it’s fingers move – aren’t they smart! Look, the Hand can pick things up and manipulate objects! Isn’t it intelligent! With smart hands like that, who needs a Brain?!
But seriously, maybe the concept of “neuroplasticity ” proves our case. Straight from DMSMH – “Form follows function”.
There is nothing wrong with doing “brain research”, but there is everything wrong with assigning all cause to the brain. A person also has a mind. Events in the mind can cause changes in the brain and other parts of the body. So which comes first – the disorder in the mind, or the disorder in the brain? Many”brain researchers” simply assume the origin is in the brain. Maybe the origin is actually in the mind, and what is seen in the brain is a symptom, reflection, or secondary effect of what is in the mind.
Maybe “neuroplasticity” is the brain responding and changing form at the mind’s command.
It is the same-old simpistic black-and-white thinking that says “the body is everything”, or “the mind is everything”. The truth is something else.
RJ and I speak of psychiatry as we know it in the USA. Give them another 10 years, and they’ll be pushing pills just as much there, where you live. Especially if they are educated in the USA. The money is just too good to resist, in that pill-pushing business.
“the Reptillian, Paleo-Mammalian and Neo-Mammalian”
What a reactive part of the mi…..oh sorry brain that is 😉
“But seriously, maybe the concept of “neuroplasticity ” proves our case. Straight from DMSMH – “Form follows function”.”
Yes yes yes yes yes. LETS seize this oppurtunity to get rid of the maybes and change them into certainties through scientific research.
I know you get it I know you know. Communicate and partner up
And than you have the creative artist who always doubt his/her own talent throughout their lives and suffer at their own soul. Suddenly you read in the paper your favorit artist has taken his own life.
There’s also another take on some of those possible “suicides” of various artists being caused by something other than “Clinical Depression”:
A heartfelt very well done. Stay true to yourself, as you’re doing, and no arrow will ever pierce your chest.
ps – The above thread on the military is disturbing to me on many fronts, but let’s agree on this: distinguish the difference between soldiers or SO members and the psychotics who run them.
I’m sorry to break this news but no one is protecting our freedoms from Osama bin Laden. This guy’s a bush league two-bit criminal who controls maybe a few thousand guys. He’s a pimple on the ass of the world. They had him in the Tora Bora caves but the Bush/Cheney Hawks needed a bogeyman to scare Americans into allowing their actual freedoms to be taken away for their own “protection” and so they could remain “free”. These bastards should all be jailed just for this act of treason.
Here’s an R factor: Bin Laden’s still in a cave – if he’s alive – hooked up to a dialysis machine. It’s the idea of him that serves the purpose of warmongers. Miscavige uses the same tricks to scare Scientologists into “protecting freedom”.
Also, CD, Jan Eastgate’s a decent human being who, like many in the reign of DM’s terror, has lost her ability to see what is actually there. This is regrettable but does not diminish what she did in exposing the acts of depravity that went on at Chelmsford. I know you’ve got a different viewpoint when it comes to psychiatry, but you have to see that there are those who operate in that field who are deeply disturbed individuals intent on pulling the wings off flies and calling it treatment.
Hi Mark, Thank you for speaking up. I remember you from those days in Davis. Very exciting and rewarding times – those early years before the 80’s. (I’m obviously using an alias here.) It has been difficult to watch the craziness that is going on. I was never in the Sea Org, only went to L.A. and Flag as public, but I saw enough to know that what Marty and others are saying is true. Take care of yourself and be true to yourself. You have more friends than you know.
This is a topic that is near to my heart… Many thanks!
Where are your contact details though?
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