Buildings and the Founder

A couple years ago Bill Mahr did a very interesting and entertaining documentary on religion called Religulous.  Readers of this blog forwarded me  short excerpts from Religulous that show some interesting parallels between the church of Scientology and the Roman Catholic church.  Might make for some lively and enlightening discussion.

120 responses to “Buildings and the Founder

  1. “You’ve got to just live and die with your stupid ideas!” Ha ha ha ha.

  2. Thought Provoking

    Interesting parallel to what the church has become.

    I recall listening to tapes where LRH is talking about taking a bus ride, and the way he explained the subject was to put the guy in session right there on the bus. Seems he didn’t need much of a building.

    The old time auditors at my first mission used to tell stories about auditing in their kitchens…in the early days.

    The only thing needed was a place where the PC could put his attention on his bank. Nowadays, with meters and all a table and chairs might be in order. Just the basics. 🙂

  3. There is very little comparison between the Church of Scientology and the Roman Catholic church. Even Catholic churches RESEMBLE churches as opposed to “for show only buildings”.

    I had a cousin once named Pauletta. Very affluent, lived in a very affluent community in New Jersey, had a big house, a pool, diamonds, several cars. I had to go to her house to a party once and the house was beautifully furnished. Living room, dining room, kitchen, all brand new furniture and appliances after all this was her home.

    The only problem was that the rooms were closed off, every room, with a theatre red velvlet divider and two brass posts. Why? Because this was her and her families home, but “please don’t touch anything or go in any of the rooms. We do everything downstairs including the bathroom.”

    If Pauletta’s house is not like a modern day Org or INT Base then I would not know what it is.

    At least in my house or in my church, you can sit down if you want and be made to feel guilty that you may have caused a depreciation in the value of the property.

    I feel this way in today’s orgs. It is like “Look, but don’t touch, unless you buy!”

    Go away DM and take this church with you!

  4. I forgot about that interview. Love that priest. Talk about a laid back guy. Now, HE should be the Pope.

  5. Bill’s schtick on Scientology in the movie is funny too.

  6. You could. I tried that when I was younger, when I was in high school, auditing a person right out of the DMSMH.

    A person that is really focused and is truly auditor material can pull it off without an E-Meter.

    Never mind about Pauletta’s house.

  7. Scott Campbell


    When I clicked on the play button, it said: “Embedding disabled by request, Watch on YouTube”. I clicked the title at the top of the video and it went directly to it on YouTube.

    I saw that movie. To me, this was one of the funniest parts. The old priest cat so nonchalantly acknowledges how it’s all a sham and how none of it reflects the “founder’s” wishes anymore. He also doesn’t care one whit how people practice his religion. Why should he? He’s got his, and that’s all that really matters to him.

    Boy, the C of S is sure “evolving” quickley! It took the Catholics hundreds of years to get to where they are today.


  8. This version gives a bit more background to the interview:

  9. We need more Scientologists like this priest.

  10. That guy was just so brilliant and different, doubt you would find many priests with such an open mind.

  11. I noticed this first when I recently joined a group of predominantly Catholics – not a religious group – and discovered they used all the basic tech of relationships and building an örg’ in the manner of scientology and the catholics seemed to move as a bloc and weild power to keep their non-friends ‘down”. It is a ‘human’thing’and could be learned at business college. the leader of the group even acted in a similar manner to the captain of the last org i was in with a kind of ethics, black PR and fair game when things went bellyup ie I decided i wasn’t going to be used any more. it is a ‘human’ thing. Even LRH said to do it to protect the orgs. Check out way back to 1968 in the Dumbleton-Powles inquiry in NZ

  12. I just love Rome……

    You know, those of you who have studied history will remember that Emperor Nero, the last of the Julio-Claudians (blood related to Julius Caesar), started an abberated high cost building project that was started after the great fire of 64 AD. The costs were covered by raising taxes and murdering many high net worth Romans who were given the option to either kill themselves and allow their survivors some portion to live on, or live, and lose it all. However, it still cost more than they could raise and the Roman economy was decimated and starvation ensued for many of its lower and middle class.

    Nero considered himself an artist with few peers. He wanted to bring aesthetic beauty to the city and instill greater culture in its history. However there was one problem…..He was nuts, and the ruling class knew it.

    Eventually, a faction of the army set in motion the will to overthrow Nero, and he was forced to leave Rome and he later committed suicide with the help of a slave (he was reportedly too cowardly to do it alone). “Oh what an artist dies in me”, he is reported to have said at the end.

    As I reflect over all of the material we have read on this fine blog, and the many wrongs that we have been made aware of with the leadership of the church, I cannot help but see a similar streak of insanity at work.
    Marty has hinted that DM’s bank could collapse onto him and cause him to end it. I wonder, if that should happen, would his last thoughts be,”Oh what a real estate investor dies in me”?

    Pax Romana,

  13. I laughed my ass of at this documentary. Don’t you love this guy? He was raised with a jewish mother and a catholic father. Yet he did not know until he was 13 yrs old that his mother was jewish. The family stopped practicing catholicism when his father decided he disagreed with the churches stance on ‘Birth Control’

    “I wanted to interview the pope, a cardinal, or even the Monseigneur, or even the flying nun, but apparently I’ve been on the Catholic shit list for awhile”

    Sounds a little like John Sweeney trying to get an interview with David Miscavage(the pope) or even his closest minions or slaves, doesn’t it?

    Any type of religion is a way of controlling the masses, and this includes Scientology, probably the worst religion on earth because it demands it’s members to give HUGELY in the offering plate. If the members don’t have the finances to give hugely, yet want to practice in Scientology, then you will work as a slaves.

  14. I forgot to add..

    I have read Marty’s board here for some time. It sounds like there are many, many, many talented people coming out of the clutches of the COS, and gaining some freedom with their knowledge and expertise, and realizing that they needed to have a real life, other than being in a prison.
    Good for everyone of you that have seen the ‘light’ Your life will be much more fulfilling.
    I think that the worst thing about this church is that it has the highest score on how to disconnect marriages, children, grandchildren and parents. And then send PI’s to their homes, workplaces to stalk them and haunt them.
    As John Sweeney says “What type of religion does this to its x-members? What type of religion stalks people at their homes?”

  15. My former roots ~~ The Catholic Church.

    Following the trail of something I read on Jeff Hawkin’s Blog, I decided to re-visit the Catholic Church in downtown Los Angeles. I just wanted peace and quiet ~~ a place to contemplate and meditate and think about things.

    I had already made my decision to befriend Marty and Mike Rinder which I had previously been warned and cautioned by an Exec at OSA was IRREVOCABLE……

    I had much to contemplate. I was exiting a life and Church I had contributed to for 35 years….

    I drove downtown to the heart of Los Angeles to a magnificent Cathedral ~~ Our Lady of Angels. Yes it was posh, marble, a flawless piece of architecture, inside though were humble Mexicans huddled together, and others~the rank and file of life displaying no opulence ~~ all happy to find solace and comfort in this magnificent structure.

    I wandered in as Tourist, but I had a strange sense of returning home. I recalled my childhood and attending mass, the comforting sounds, the sense of communion.

    Unlike the Sea Organization this Catholic Church was a safe Space

    An Organ was playing, I wandered down one flight down to the Mausoleum. In front of me was a crypt of the actor Gregory Peck. OLD Hollywood. More memories.

    My eyes gazed at the plaque with the legend

    The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels Mausoleum is the only structure in the world where the opportunity for interment in a site of such religious significance is available to all – not just a “privileged few”.

    I am doing mental comparisons. My mind is computing. “Not just a privileged few”

    I am doing a Confusion Formula inadvertently


    I sat down in a wooden pew to think.
    I found I could think in logical sequences without *NOISE* in my head

    I gazed along the main corridor, and saw the sixteen large stained glass windows along the north and south hallways, A lot of vibrant earth tones ~~ red, yellow, brown, orange and rust. Light also enters the Cathedral and devotional chapels by way of large, slanted shafts. I love great lighting effects.

    There was no frenzy, yelling, bullying, sentencing to the Gulags, threatening, punching, abusive and vulgar language ~~ none of that ever occurred or would ever occur ~~ in this place of sanctuary.

    I wandered by the religious figures and the little chapel offshoots.
    No one is asking me for money. No one is insisting I buy the latest release ~~ no one is trying to route me to some Reg for my next IAS status !

    I contemplated more and more how the frantic rhythm and insatiable urge for a rising Thursday 2pm stat took everything profound and beautiful away from my “Church”.
    How could this happen ? How could my former husband Heber Jentzsch be in a lockdown in SP Hole for 6 years unable to see his son but once in 6 years ? I thought about many things.

    I passed a Collection Box and wilfully deposited a generous donation.

    The traditional Catholic Hymn AVE MARIA was now playing. It is emotional music. I am on a journey, a journey with consequences to my actions.

    For no reason at all, I knelt down and wept.

  16. Interesting. While I respect people’s religious beliefs, I contend that Religion has been used as a mechanism to control people through the ages, by harnessing people’s spirituality and locating it in physical constructs which can then be regulated.

    Spirituality is not located in buildings, rules, regulations, and poltical agendas which always end up being shaped by a few, to tell the many how to behave. This is a perversion of what spirituality actually is .

    Every human is free to pursue their own path, no “middleman” is needed.

    The above is my opinion, based on observation.

    To illustrate my point, a quote from Desmond Tutu:

    ‎”When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said ‘Let us pray’. We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land” – Desmond Tutu

  17. Fascinating. Catholic is as Catholic does. Imagine what the world would be like if all who professed to be Christians *really practiced Christianity*. The central idea taught is love by a being in human form who said he was an offspring of a spirit, God (infinity, 8th dynamic, Creator) incarnate, and that all humans were “children of God” ∞ The latter part, that ALL were “sons of God”, was conveniently censored by the Holier-Than-Thou You Sinner Racket that hijacked Jesus and morphed it into the Rolling Thunder Strike You Down Deity.

    The whole Resurrection idea in Catholicism is supposed to be about being senior to the material world, even one’s own physical body and immediate life. Further, Christ did not set himself above others as a deity. His whole point was, “If I can do this, so can you.” We are all “sons of god.” Call it what you will, bu the sacrament of Communion is kind of awesome…like merging with the Infinite Love of Creative Power.

    What does all this have to do with wearing flowered hats to Mass on Sunday, building crystal cathedrals, waging War and selling forgiveness? The truth is that the Vatican hijacked Jesus, turned truths into a goldplated palazzo then shrouded it in mysterious puff smoke and incense.

    The Vatican was a political body put together for the assimilation of power and territory. By 1000 years after the death of Christ, the Vatican Inquisitions were in full swing, in “his name”. Using Jesus and God as a banner, Grand Inquisitions launched massacres, wars, burnings, torture, blackmails and heinous mayhem and persisted until the 19th century! Um, Thou shalt not kill?

    We wonder why so-called Scientologists inside the McScientology Corporation cant differentiate between LRH writings and arbitrary, rampant abuse under the guise of Scientology — and yet when people take on a lemming mentality, history proves masses don’t ask questions. Did anyone ask “What Is Wrong With This Picture” when a guy holding the banner of a Love God torched his home and murdered his family? No, they are happy to join the McJesus Club and bake sale, rather than research, read and practice the teachings of the person they profess to follow.

    In the 2nd century, a philosopher named Porphyry wrote a work consisting of several volumes (15 in all) entitled “Against the Christians,” that was directed not against Christ or his teachings, but against the Christians of his own day and their sacred books, which, he argued were the work of ignorant people and deceivers. In the volumes, he attacks the purported “Christians” on both philosophical and exegetical grounds. It’s not surprising that his works were banned (in 448) and ordered destroyed — but fortunately large segments of the volumes remain in the writings of Augustine and others.

    Group-think, also called mob mentality, is all the same …the patterns are the same — fill in the blanks with different contents, but they’re still the blanks.

    The only thing unique is individuals who are free to be and perceive and create. Scientology, the actual practice developed by Hubbard, offers people a valid tool with which to achieve betterment, insight and liberation from ignorance and mob mentality of eons. And yet here we see it being canned into a gaudy mockery, a synthetic substitute.

    It is absolutely VITAL in this day and age to finally graduate and make the distinction between a religion’s professed doctrines, the people who practice (i.e., live) them, and the people that follow/abuse them.

    As well as public outcry against synthetic substitutes and abuse, part of that conversely involves the respect of understanding of a religions actual doctrine, how a doctrine might work for someone, and not mocking or ridiculing what someone finds holy or a workable practice (…the actual doctrine as opposed to the politicized imitation version. Pulling out people’s tongues for being “heretics” is not a religious doctrine).

    (To this end, I disagree with Bill Maher’s suppressed smirk generalized at doctrine soundbytes, although he otherwise makes excellent points…would Jesus live here??)

    If someone says they world for Animal Rescue and then you see them capturing or shooting dogs for sport or profit…it’s pretty obvious, right? Why should a religion be different?

  18. If it’s all about organized religion and not about getting any sort of results, and that is the way it appears to be going and has been for some time regarding the Cof$, then obviously the Vatican/pope has it hands down over Cof$/int base/DM. Better real estate, better religious costumes, better idols, and a fabulous art collection, some of which was here on display here in St. Louis.

    Perhaps DM should start selling stone carved replicas of e-meters that people can burn insense in front of.


  19. Correction to what I wrote above, Porphyry lived and wrote in the 3rd century (not 2nd). Circa 232 – 305 AD

  20. Religulous is a great movie. It should be required viewing for every Scientologist. What I love about this old maverick of a priest, is that he speaks his mind freely about all the humbug that the Catholic Church serves up and doesn’t seem the least bit concerned about being censored for it (or comm ev’d)!

    I went to Catholic school for 12 years and got a great education and an incredibly cynical view of mainstream religion. I always thought Scientology would be different but it’s the same old dramatization. Oh, well.

  21. “Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.” -Henry David Thoreau

  22. John 2:13-16
    13 The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

    14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.

    15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;

    16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.”

  23. Didn’t he say,”You just got to live and die with THEIR stupid ideas”?

    I like the priest’s practical attitude. He is very accepting of his flock and it seems he would grant any parishioner a lot of beingness, getting right down to the nitty-gritty of trying to help them with good counsel. Kinda like that “Don’t Worry, Be Happy!” guru from the 1960s.

  24. Kitchen!

    Are you talking about the Ritz or what?

    I remember the HQS being so overcrowded that we had to audit in the bathroom 🙂

    I bet the PC in that session probably made more case gain than any PC has in one of those Micky D type “auditing rooms” they have these days at the …”Church”….

  25. Good one.

    Brothers and Sisters, let’s lighten up and let’s just have a good laugh in between. It’s even therapeutic! As a result we’ll see even more outpoints to laugh about. And that includes a good laugh about ourselves because me and thee ain’t necessarily without sin either, brother.

    I don’t think the Vatican is necessarily opposed to DMology – it’s a great opportunity for a future real estate merger. As part of the deal, DM could become the Crazy Officer of Buildings and transform monasteries into monstrosities.

    Obviously the Pope would have to make some concessions too: the censer must be swung back and forth three times exactly with the altar boys showing an appropriate smile at the exact end, indicating it is VGI (Very Good Incense).

    Naturally, my three favorite sites (Marty, Steve and Jeff – known as MaSteff – if you thought this word has a typo, you got it!) is Declared as being part of the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. Firmly incorporating NOI (“NO Internet” as well as another definition) into the believe system of the Tchurch achieves yet another goal: What a Wonderful World (also known as*e* on, don’t you get it?)

    Thus having Cleared from the minds of hundreds of minions (read Millions) any newly defined OWs (Other Websites) gets DMology THAT much closer to its end goal.

    Which brings me to my final point. Chairmain of the Bullshit so appropriately said while thinking in Futures (has a stock exchange definition too, gee, do I have to explain my jokes): “We no longer measure our success with our own statistics (so true) but in terms of external footnukes planted by ourselves” (which is why the special effect displays of statistics so often end in explosions) .

    Moreover, combine all “I” (COB) have said and done with that merger and we’ll have Mestology cleared from this planet.

    (Rolling Thunder please)

  26. Very interesting post, Karen. Of course the Catholic Church has its own brutal history that lasted way over a thousand years. But great to see that they have spaces that can now give you and others comfort.
    I was in Rome last year and visited the Vatican a number of times. Absolutely beautiful and breathtaking. I’ve never been in any church quite like it, including Notre Dame in Paris, which is also spectacular. NOTHING wrong with having places like these. Actually I LOVE aesthetic buildings. They are high art and wonderfully theta. If the C of S handn’t become a militaristic, authoritarian, money oriented organization, I would take great pride in our beautiful historic new org building. As it is, I have never even seen it again since I have become inactive.

    By the way, I wanted to visit the new Org in Rome, but as far as I could determine from maps, it is not actually IN Rome!!! The location I found was way beyond the last metro stop and not near a bus line either. ???????? Would one locate a New York Org in Central New Jersey?

  27. …for no reason at all, tears welled up when reading your post…

  28. Agreed. The parallel I saw is that this Priest spokesperson HAD his TRs in for real, and could actually PROPERLY acknowledge, REAL TR 2, REAL TR 1, I mean his TRs and acknowledgements for Bill M were so good, that Bill enjoyed them and was entertained by them.

    Really, I did my 27 years in the Sea Org, and the parallels I see in this priest that “we” NEVER, in all the years of my full support, developed from amongst “us” such a smooth PR Priest spokesperson.

    If Scientology is EVER going anywhere, it needs PR people like this Priest.

    And that Catholicism ALLOWS such a priest, to do this type of free speaking for Catholicism, without immediately defrocking him, etc, etc, THAT shows Catholicism is centuries ahead, still, in the “religion” game.

    There are some videos of the the “anonymous” protester “Angry Gay Pope”, somewhere, where AGP is protesting in front of a Catholic church in LA region, doing his normal provocative offensive badgering. IN Angry Gay Pope’s Catholic church protests, what I noticed is the average everyday Catholics who stopped to talk to AGP acted ALSO like I had someday wished “we” Scientologists would do.

    The Catholic religion members are freer than Scientologists, is the biggest message I take away from this section of the Bill Maher clip, and from watching who average Catholics deal with offensive badgering protesters like Angry Gay Pope.

    To me this Priest has the Pro TRs EP and is in NO fear of his Catholic superiors hitting on him for what he freely says to Maher.

    And this type of material shows that people are already quite capable without the TRs course, etc, and all the courses and auditing, etc, etc.

    People out there are damn capable already. To “help” those way more capable people out there, would take some Scientologists to come down off their Scientologist high horse superior mentality, and SEE that people out there in life ARE way the hell more capable already, than the vast bulk of Scientologists who think they are superior due to their Scientology tech knowledge.

    That’s also what this clip led me to think.

  29. The Christian church suggests a 10% tithe.
    The Miscavige church demands a 90% tithe.

  30. This video highlights for me how our individual needs for ARC can lead to personal and global disaster, including the needs we each have to:

    1. Be in fellowship with those who recognize us and support us
    2. Gain more clarity and reduce confusion
    3. Focus our energies and achieve something
    4. Protect ourselves and our loved ones

    It comes down, I think, to understanding better and better what we are really agreeing to when we agree with something.

    There’s another piece of this which I don’t think everyone values, which is the ability to recognize and tolerate the good and the bad that is in everything. As I have grown older (and wiser), it has become an option for me to not reject or destroy something because it has some imperfections, or to not adore or pledge eternal allegiance to something because it has some good elements to it.

    Religions and religious discussions are usually about making choices and committing to all of something, not about studying the religion to understand which elements are true and right and which are wrong and evil. And it’s not even that simple, for there are elements that are 49/51% or situationally mostly right or mostly wrong. But, as I said earlier, I’m not sure that everyone is up for this.

    We all like labels on other people, so we know ‘what they stand for’ and how to react quickly to them. Are they friend or foe? Are they like me or not like me? This innate ‘rush to judgment’ instinct we all have is the human trait that’s most difficult to civilize. It developed for obvious survival reasons. Yet it is a symptom of what keeps us all from continuing to look, to inspect and evaluate beyond our first impressions.

    Just Me

  31. Perhaps a deeper common denominator to controlling a group or individual is “Thought Stopping”.

    Demonize a topic.
    Make a thought or question “sinful”.
    Unsafe questions.

    An auditor asks a question in a safe environment.
    “Reverse Scientology” makes questioning unsafe.

    We know that a person’s Understanding improves as aspects of ARC improve.

    The Church of Miscavige puts “ARCU” at the low end of the CDEINR scale.

    Our government and mainstream media have utilized “Thought Stopping” on the topic of World Trade Center Building 7 and its symmetrical free fall collapse. This helps them to control our society.

    Suppress the free interest, the “curious about” inclination, the ability to thoroughly investigate, the willingness to look, the right to question, etc …and we then see a more easily controlled individual or group.

    This blog offers multiple viewpoints and a freedom to look.
    I like that.

  32. One things that is often overlooked in the insanity of Roman emperors, particularly Caligula and Nero, is the consumption of their version of “soda pop” which was a delicacy and was made with mercury. Mercury would give the fizzy effectgs we are all so familiar with today and it was a “heavier” fizz. It, of course, poisons the body and particularly the brain. These people became the ultimate biochemical personalities. Don’t know how much of DM’s toxicity has to do with any of these factors but he is definitely toxic. In homeopathy, you give the patient just a little bit of the disease causing agent so that he will build up antibodies to it. Many of you who were in his direct or semi-direct employ had way to heavy a does of DM. The society, however, is getting just a little dose of him and one that is not damaging to them like it was to those of you who have made the near supreme sacrifice. This will enable society to create enough antibodies to reject him and his stranglehold on whatever he has a stranglehold of (mostly comm lines). From a Taoist perspective, the process is already working and working well. It just takes time. In the East, they are never in a hurry.

  33. martyrathbun09

    Interesting. At first blush seemingly ironic, I considered my greatest ability attained in Scientology was the ability to disagree. That ultimately became the unpardonable sin in the Miscavige regime. Not so ironic if you listen to the PDC. Unknowing agreement is the trap of the physical universe.

  34. martyrathbun09

    Chuck, Heber was heading in that direction until he ran into the train wreck that is DM.

  35. This is not worth commenting on.

  36. martyrathbun09

    I was far more impressed with the hole in the wall pizza cafe around the corner from the Vatican.

  37. Thought Provoking

    Thank you…beautiful…I understand.

  38. martyrathbun09

    Dude, you got rolling thunder from the shack. You gotta come down here once and while to bring me uptone.

  39. Karen – A moving experience. When I have been in such, I have noticed how the art work resembles or is the same as symbols I’ve seen in the Tarot or occult schematics. Ancient cathedrals, and all churches are meant to mimic this to some degree, were based upon the architecture of the womb which is the vessel of creation. Cathedral comes from the Latin cathedra “an easy chair (principally used by ladies),” also metonymically, e.g. cathedrae molles “luxurious women;” Going deeper, the word relates to the Hebrew “Kether” which refers to the top Sephirot (sphere) of the Cabalistic Tree of Life. This is the crown of creation from which all things stem. The “ket” and “cat” are synonymous and both relate to the cat or feminine energy. This is the inspiration for the Cathars of south France who espoused the feminine.
    In the olden whole track days of the Matriarchy, the goddess was the object of worship by the congregation. The word synagogue means “to know together”. Her naked body and menstrual blood were sacred because they are the source of life, not a Pontif ruling over a congregation. The modern church co-opted the ancient rites and altered them just like DM. Julius Cesar was the Pontif Maximus of the Vestal Virgins and the Catholics co=opted that name too.
    In the Tree of Life, “The Fool” and “The Magician” spring out of Kether and this relates deeply to the archetypal experience of OT III as it relates to so many. I will post this separately as it relates to Bill Maher.

  40. martyrathbun09

    Kinda like a good auditor too.

  41. martyrathbun09

    Dean, and then college students seeing his ability to disagree with the MEST universe and greed, asked him “what should we do?” He said, something to the effect of “give all your worldly possessions to the poor, and follow me.” (quotations of course are speculative, but you get the meaning, taken from Will Durant’s History of Western Civilization). Note, he didn’t say, “give all your money to the IAC (Int Assoc of Christians)”,or “give your money to Mecca fund”, or “give your money to the Idle Org fund”, or “give your money to me.” He said, “give all your worldly possessions to the poor, and follow me.” Not a lot did. But, some got rid of everything, got a functional robe and sandals, and headed out to the wilderness. Probably went exterior too, I guess.

  42. Margaret,
    Yes, the provides some more background, the parallels are more apparent. We have COBal Infallibility – passed by one vote.

  43. martyrathbun09

    Please, I hope everybody reads this.

  44. As a young man surveying the religious and spiritual offerings available to me, this litany of spiritual abuse that Bill lays out formed some of the basis for Scientology becoming my chosen religion.

    Scientology was supposed to be different. It was never supposed to have all this bullshit.

    Now I know that there is no religion run by Man that does not have some form of these corruptions.

    So I play tiddly-winks instead.

  45. martyrathbun09

    What a beautiful wavelength.

  46. martyrathbun09

    Margaret, very good selection. Highly recommended. Scientology got papal infallibility, WITHOUT a vote.

  47. Samuel,
    Perhaps you could compose the Screed of the Church of Miscavige. In the vein of the above, and we could laugh off the outpoints 🙂

  48. Thank you for sharing this Karen, I felt akin with you and blessed reading your account about your own personal journey. Your precious spirit seems to always shine through in the things you write.

    You wrote: “For no reason at all, I knelt down and wept”

    And when I read this, I was there with YOU. As I too had sought solice in just about every single chapel, church and cathedral in the foreign country where I now live. Though I am not Catholic,… into every beautiful and peaceful chapel, every church and every single cathedral I could go…I was there. It became a quest for me to pray for my son and my family back home… in every religious house (church) that I could. Besides the peace you sense there, the history and art in those magnificent cathedrals, the creativity and masonry and architectural design that went into creating them…is amazing. I understand the concept that there is no greater beauty and peace for our spirits to be found, than can be found out in nature…but at the time I needed the security and shelter that being inside a church could provide.

    Most of all, I found the comfort I needed to help my spirit after facing EVIL like I had never known existed…

    When I did not become a Catholic, nor pay huge fees for their many kindnesses, nor make a huge donation…no one cared. All that mattered was my survival as a human and spiritual being. No one from the Catholic church decided I was an enemy and sought to destroy me…whether I believed in the Catholic doctrine, knew how to pray, knew the words to the songs…or if I left through those chapel doors… once I was strong enough to make it on my own again. Instead they cheered me on…and provided a safe place to always go at any time…should I need it.

    The music within those churches was healing to my spirit & soul, and the priests were very kind to me. The nuns took me in and gave me shelter, a room…’fit for a princess’, clothing, food and encouragement. They assigned others within their faith to nurture and watch over me…as my spirit had suffered grievous injury…and all that I had known had been threatened, stalked, harrassed…crushed, raped and pilaged and destroyed…and I had left behind everything I ever held dear in my life…just to survive…so that one day I could find my way back home…I too have been on a long journey…a journey with consequences to my actions…actions I would never have otherwise taken. In these other churches, no one asked me for a donation…no one regged me to increase ‘stats’…no one judged me…or my value according to my financial worth and what I could do for them. They simply offered kindness and took me in…a refugee from another country…no need to explain, nor even tell my story.

    Whether we believe in a certain religious philosophy…or not, my own spirit was comforted, inspired and renewed…and not a single nun, priest or anyone else attempted to ‘convert me’ to their doctrine. They simply were kind and loving. An entire Order of Priests became like fathers to me here. They watched over me as if I was a daughter. they took me with them on walks to feed mere little birds…and gave me simple tasks to help me heal from the extraordinary trauma I had experienced at the hands of some of the most EVIL beings I ever encountered (OSA), they provided couseling at the Monestary were they lived…all for free, they provided many hugs and many prayers…without any strings attached…and introduced me to people to expand my circle of ‘friends’…so I would feel supported and less alone in a country that was not my own.

    On my long journey home, I am and always will be eternally grateful to have found the care and peace that there is within those beautiful cathedrals, churches and chapels here where I am. Doctrines aside, I am grateful for the safe places they provided at a time I felt very alone and needed to be reminded that there were places one could go…where EVIL was shut out…and where Peace Profound, LOVE & Goodwill prevailed…it is there in those churches, chapels and cathedrals…and it should be there in every Scientology Org. too.

    For many reasons, and many times, in sorrow and in gratitude…I too had also knelt down and wept.

  49. Thought Provoking

    You got me thinking on this one. My awareness of my spirituality started well before I ever became a Scientologists.

    In the beginning, Scientology offered me a direction and tools to have a better, more moral life. I liked the non-denominational application of these tools and I was at a cross roads where my life could have taken a completely different, less moral path. I chose the one that had people who were interested in life.

    For MANY years, Scientology was my tool chest. Like any other aspect of life, I was better at using some tools over others. But, Scientology was still a methodology for me.

    Auditing changed that. Each time I went in session, I would become more aware of my spiritual self. When my certainty of self came in, the mechanics fell away. I don’t have to use mechanics to get somewhere, now I can use mechanics at will but have found much truth in the concept of theta being senior to mechanics. That’s some pretty powerful stuff!

    I was fortunate to have missed a lot of the horror stories of inval, eval and continuous sec checks. But, I know that it is the current operating basis and is preventing others from using Scientology which essentially means a route to freedom has been cut off. That is never a good thing.

    So, I’m thinking…there is this tech that does truly help many understand their own spirituality but it is currently being ripped out of the universe by a madman who somehow or other got control of it.

    And, the only conclusion I can draw is to ensure that this technology is rightfully returned to those who seek spiritual enlightment and that it be further protected from any attempts to usurp it and make it unavailable to others. After all the early attempts of government interference, isn’t that what LRH really wanted? To keep it free?

    If one looks at the idea that the church was formed to organize, expand and protect the tech, keep it standard, etc. The church has failed to do its job. The multiple viewpoint system of information has proven to be successful in finding out the truth about the corruption and abuses in the church
    I think this same concept can work with independent Scientology entities who govern themselves. Standards are met by having training facilities available but the real test is the actual products achieved on others. Those who stay true to the tech get excellent results. Just like we do now when choosing a doctor. If we don’t like one. we move on to another who duplicates us and handles us expertly. Knowing that success or failure depends of standard results, one is more inclined to deliver standard results. Such a system removes the control factor that tends to pervade religions.

    We have the technology. Because of DM’s intervention, we have personal experience on seeing that it can be corrupted and many of us have discovered newly, what “knowing that it is correct” really means. In a new unit of time it is up to us to apply the correct technology.

    Grand buildings have nothing to do with accomplishing the above. Purpose is senior to policy.

  50. Just recently a friend suggested a book: The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. It’s fantastic and I’m only on page 40 or so.

    Reminds me of The Shack — with it’s unorthodox view of the Trinity.

    I’m reminded of a quote from my teacher – Sakyong Mipham – “A community cannot survive if it doesn’t believe in kindness.”

    And if they don’t have “others” as their core focus … not themselves.


  51. Thought Provoking


    Great addition selection. WOW, does this sound familiar!

  52. Impressive! And wise!

  53. martyrathbun09

    Interesting. He had already been feterred and shackled mentally by Miscavige by then. Left to his own devices it would have been an entirely different picture. Nonetheless, compare that to what now gets presented as the public face of the church of Scientology.

  54. Karen#1~Thank you for such an insightful and heart felt post.
    I watched the video last night and have thought about how to answer/respond. You led by example.
    I spent the weekend with alumnae at a Sacred Heart convent built before the Civil War, where the “religious” devoted their lives to helping and serving others, in this case, through the education of girls.
    I went up to the shrine where a young Episcopal nun in training had the spirit of a young preist-in-training appear to her and heal her. He appeared to her later to warn of her death as well. There are two large paintings of the two in the shrine. (See photos on my FB page)
    The luncheon cost a whopping $25 and included tons of food, beer and wine. No regging before, during or after.
    (The school is very expensive, but very much delivers what it promises in exchange.)
    During the mass, the priest gave his sermon using a Pentecostal minister’s “make my baby jump” analogies, filled with passion and excitement. His focus was on making the future noble, taking Gospel and applying it to modern day life. I watched the tech of turning wine and wafers into something sacred and symbolic. There is a tech to it, done exactly a certain way. I chose not to participate in taking communion (as did a few others) and no one said a word about it. No eval. No inval. No dirty looks. No KRs.
    I realized we are kindred spirits by agreement and we all create on that just by being there.
    Some younger graduates made sure my friend and I were invited to their party and that we got there later Saturday night. There we had more great food and drink, watched some football, listened to vinyl records with husbands and boyfriends, talked about old times and new times, etc.
    The basic tech of Catholicism is there but the people make it what it is and thankfully, it’s evolved culturally.
    My uncle is a retired Bishop who has lived a “life of poverty” but thanks to donations from parishioners, lived in great comfort at the same time. A “life of poverty” is not all about money, but rather about not fixating on money. (hint hint like DM) His parish grew. He used billboards to recruit priests. He was quite the astute business man who joined the priesthood before he even graduated high school, from a family of 12 kids, knowing he’d not only finish high school but get college educated because of it. He dedicated his life to helping others through his religion. His church never lavished him with money, but his group made sure he lived comfortably. He’s now living in a nice nursing home which tthe church does pay for. Another relative, now deceased, ran a huge Catholic hospital in Biloxi, MS. She retired to a beautiful retirement village, all paid for by her church. These systems are set up all over the world for them, not just because one good person creates it for one or two.
    Family connection is a huge part of this religion. Parishioners strive to bring families closer together in times of strife, not pull them apart, at least in my experience and in the memory of my people.
    Bill Mahr may not be able to see the Pope, but I can if I really want to. He probably could have if he’d tried a little harder too. But he’s a critic.
    No, I don’t think you can compare Catholicism to Scientology under the thumb of David Miscavige. He’s absolutely ruined the culture in HIS church so that it won’t survive. I do think WE can keep it alive and nurture the culture to ensure Scientology survives like Catholicism has. Maybe our Vatican will be PAC base one day. But that will only be through our creating the culture to keep it alive so that the goodness in it persists. And even so, we have to have LRH tech working underneath it all.

  55. Just Me,
    As I’ve continued on in the study of living, living while I do it, I came to the extrapolation of the somewhat idiotic circumstance of me, an immortal spiritual being, working on ‘survive!’

    At first look, an apathy of serious proportion kind of swamped me. What the hell is the point? was the question. Down I went into this goo, wallowing around. Then I realized something I was doing as part of the wallow – I was adding an aesthetic wave to it. This was ‘beautiful -apathy’. Bingo! I understood the pre-cursor to the PDCs and 8-8008; 8-80 and the Dichotomies. I also understood ‘the reason why’ (NSOL). From there I finally got this phenomenon of the being holding things apart, but in proximity, to gain an interchange and the generation of energy and sensation.

    There was one part of LRH’s description of this Two Terminal Universe that I am chasing down for more clarity and use – the idea that in the ‘Plus’ there is some ‘Minus’ and vice versa. The other day, while looking up the significance of the well-known Yin Yang symbol, I noticed it has a little bit of Yin (a dot) in the Yang and vice versa. The circle of life is a manifestation of Two Terminals, with a little bit of one in the other, which I suspect at this point in my searching for the truth of this, is for affinity, reality and communication of one Terminal with the other.

    Complete separation into ‘us and them’, ‘good and evil’, ‘right and wrong’ is a fallacy. With no ‘us’ in ‘them’ there is no contact, no relation. With no dichotomy, no persistence (time) and no ‘survive!’ It’s a balance of the two to gain duration and havingness.

    It appears to me that what Scientology has as a game where everybody wins, is a game above and beyond the one fixed for this universe – survive! It’s one where, with no fear of ‘not survive’, all the old rivalries dissipate, one can be what he couldn’t and a new culture of beings is possible.

    Just some thoughts on the idea you’ve put forth.


  56. I agree.

  57. Veritas~I wrote my little sermon before reading this. You explained it perfectly! I believe I gave a living example of what you said here:
    “It is absolutely VITAL in this day and age to finally graduate and make the distinction between a religion’s professed doctrines, the people who practice (i.e., live) them, and the people that follow/abuse them.”

    And I would like to do the same, live by example and apply the works of LRH.

  58. Karen, thanks for that beautiful post. You got me wondering about when was the last time I felt an Org was a really, truly, SAFE place. I’m afraid it’s been way too many a year. I think back to CCLA in the late 70’s. That place was very uptone (at least for us students). No matter how you felt walking in, after spending a couple of hours studying LRH, life just felt good. Staff were uptone, co-audits were happening right there in the Academy (remember co-audits?), the courseroom was full, training and auditing were affordable. And nary an IAS or SuperPower reg in sight. Amazing.
    I, for one, am postulating we find the way back to THAT org. The one the Ron built. I feel we’re making progress, with all of you ex-SO continuing to expose the who, and everyone else adding illumination and insight from all other corners. These are interesting days indeed.

  59. And you know, with LRH tech we’re able to actually recall living in these times. 🙂

  60. Lovely story, Tara. Thank you.

  61. Karen, I too have had this experience as I traveled throughout Europe, where the Churches are always open to anyone. I visited all the little Churches and the magnificent Cathedrals and was always struck by the serene, safe environment.

    I well remember the day that the monthly price increases were implemented on auditing and my horror that auditing was being sold the way one would sell used cars. “Buy now before the prices go up” became a constant chant reaching a crescendo just before 2pm on Thursdays.

    I remember sitting in Mary’s Chapel in Notre Dame in Paris in the early morning long before the tourists started arriving and suddenly finding myself in tears, crying for the loss of the sanctuary of the my early days of Scientology. I lit candles for everyone I could think of and I prayed in my own way for their safe-keeping, redemption and yes, salvation. For I did experience redemption and salvation from the auditing I received way back when, wondrous and awesome – the state of Clear. And all these years later I still can recall the tremendous leap of awareness and ARC I experienced as I attained the state, I still have this all these years later and with all my heart I wish this for others.

    I understood that these works of man, of beauty and magnificence honor that dream, that hope, that reality. Those moments of pure transcendence.

    I cried for my Church. I cried for the loss of it as mere trappings and appearances became more important than the essence of honor, redemption and sanctity, the finest impulses of mankind, impulses embodied in the heart and soul of these old Churches and Cathedrals throughout Europe.

  62. Very well said, Veritas: “The central idea taught is love by a being in human form who said he was an offspring of a spirit, God (infinity, 8th dynamic, Creator) incarnate, and that all humans were ‘children of God’ ∞ The latter part, that ALL were ‘sons of God’, was conveniently censored by the Holier-Than-Thou You Sinner Racket that hijacked Jesus and morphed it into the Rolling Thunder Strike You Down Deity.”

  63. Marty, thanks for throwing in that short note 🙂

    Reading all these truly sincere (and many wise!!) comments almost made me feel I have been too flippant and my practical jokes inappropriate. Your ack got my needle unstuck after the 3rd swing.

    BTW, visiting the Lord of the Shack at his palace has been on my list for a while. However, before I can do that I gotta do a few things this man gotta do and Steve would say he can’t talk about it yet. When done it may even be a good read but prior to that I have to get the intended product. Solely to cover my ass I might even hushmail the “evidence” to you in due time as in essence it is a rogue prank committed with a very sincere objective.

  64. What beautiful and very personal stories Marty’s post today is eliciting. Thank you for sharing yours, Miss Bridgett.

  65. Opps — big mistake (shows you I have a long way to go 🙂

    Should be — if they have “others” as their core focus … not themselves.

    The rest of the title of the book, The Disappearance of the Universe, is:
    Straight Talk about Illusions, Past Lives, Religion, Sex, Politics and the Miracles of Forgiveness …

    I’m learning how important that last bit is — forgiveness.

    It’s pretty big and all encompassing.


  66. Karen, thank you.

    I observe that when we are lost and betrayed at the deepest level, we often seek sanctuaries of sense. Physical places where things are quiet, holy and kind.

    I hope Heber will be released to find such places and enjoy them.

    And IMHO some of the greatest humans alive are those that stay up to help keep such places safe and sacred. People who know the grounding one can find in clean, well-lighted places.

    And one of them has a light for Heber. In fact, I think there is a clean well lighted place somewhere for all of us.

  67. Very lovely, Jim. Thank you for sharing that. And it rings true for me, too.
    Just Me

  68. Pingback: Buildings and the Founder (via Moving On Up a Little Higher) « My LRH

  69. Immortal Mess

    I have walked past churches a few times and seen that the buildings are already their to hammer the correct target ruin of this planet namely pre-OT III. Churches of- “John the Baptist”, whom in my believe was a Moses-Son Of Buddha-John The Baptist followed through. Buy some time or be a radiation particle again or an implant slave with no hope of man for religious freedom. Until LRH could get the handling for this tranced mess of a section of this universe.

    I am sure that Jesus and the Virgin tasar would not be in disagreement either.


  70. …and to clarify further, the Org that Ron built was done so with the likes of the very dedicated Sea Org. Didn’t want y’all to think I didn’t know that. :->
    (P.S. Hi to Chris Baer. I remember you fondly from those old days.)

  71. For a moment there, Heber looked like he wanted to agree with Phil that the prices were too high.

  72. martyrathbun09

    He did agree.

  73. John Boice,
    Not worth commenting, yet you did. There is a def of responsibility that comes to mind, ‘admit causing, able to withhold’. You keep at it, study and audit (give and receive), and someday we may suck back a cold beer and catch a fish.

    Can you fish?

  74. Dear Karen,

    Thank you so much for sharing this experience. It brought back to me the solace we received from listening to taped lectures by Catholic Fr. Richard Rohr as we were driving out of LA. The way of being in the world, the openness and love of the least of us as exemplified by Fr. Rohr, was a true balm.

  75. I love that Priest. He actually reminds me of a Priest I had teach religion while I went to Catholic school. The big posh buildings have nothing to do with being spiritual. Never has, never will. This world is going through some big changes from what I see. Getting back to basics!

  76. Thanks, TP. One of the best posts ever on this blog, IMO. Beautifully expressed.

    Unlike most days, today I found myself becoming more & more depressed as I read through the comments. Starting with Karen’s. I found it very hard to confront that an LRH trained Class XII would wind up achieving solace and comfort inside a Catholic church instead of her own chosen church.

    This is not in any way meant as a negative comment on Karen’s experience, which I also found very moving. Rather, it is a comment on how far down the path to ruin DM has taken what LRH fought so many years to bring forth to a world, indeed a universe, desperately in need.

    All these other religions and practices have had their chance. I don’t care how “safe” it is to sit inside their magnificent structures. They failed. Yes, we can and should grant beingness to their ideas and (if not harmful) their practices. But many of these have existed for millennia on this planet, and not one ever “brought a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it”.

    The philosophy and tools of Scientology are still the best hope of mankind, bar none – regardless of what DM has done to tarnish them.

    Your post brought tears to my eyes. Of hope. Thanks.

  77. Karen – pure poetry.

  78. Al/Theta Networker

    Marty, Dean, Tara,

    Why do you all have to be so spot-on and unserious, instead of unaware and solid 🙂 … I’m trying to go out for lunch and instead I’m staying on this blog!

    Rolling thunder, indeed …


  79. Al/Theta Networker


    Thanks for your observation about the manifestation of balance within the Yin Yang symbol and relating it to LRH materials …


  80. Al/Theta Networker


    Heard of The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard from a BodyTalk practitioner … Haven’t gotten to it — or even gotten it yet, so thanks for the R-fac on it — or I should say, what you’re perceptions from it are …


  81. I just got turned on to Thomas Merton, some super-monk. He makes some simple, yet profound statements about standing on one’s own feet, which he cognited on after talking to the Dali Lama. Harmonizes well with what you said here.

  82. The priest said it all…”they just have to live with their stupid ideas”.

    LRH said that “Stupidity is the unknowness of consideration”. He was the first and only guy to confront the implanted material that IS the Reactive Mind. Through the application of the techniques he developed we have a chance to dig ourselves out from the accumulated mass of 76 trillion years of mutual implants, cross-implants, counter-implants, etc., that, cumulatively, have turned us from the No-Thingness of Theta into MEST, or unknown considerations.

    Fortunately, if we apply the technology, we still have a chance to undo “stupid ideas” we have been living with throughout the entire dwindling spiral of this universe.

    The building of aesthetic churches, or any other Theta Trap (which are ALL baited with aesthetics), is only a symptom the the dwindling spiral is still dwindling. Stupidity is a 2nd Postulate (Not Know, Alter-Is, Not-Is), following the 1st Postulate of (Know, or As-Is). The resulting by-product is MEST, or unknown considerations, or stupidity.

    Stupidity is a game of automaticities that WE co-created. However, most of us have forgotten to remember that we’re still playing it. This Blog is evidence that a few beings are still around who might like to remember to remember, apply Standard Tech, and As-Is our “stupid ideas”.

    Like Karen, may we each discover a quite sanctuary in which to examine our “unknowns” and to recover Our Selves.

  83. Publius~I agree that LRH is the best there is and saw so many ways it would make the Catholic experience that much better while I was there.

    Through LRH’s Method One Word Clearing, I actually recalled quite a long history I’ve had with this group of Christians. Marty’s comment reminded me about how the straps on my sandals (called thongs at the time) 😉 and how I tied them, actually were symbolic of my status of the time. How much better than that can you get? I say, none! 🙂
    I’ve been doing the spiritual enlightenment thing for a LONG time now and LRH mapped out what experience has shown me to be THE way to achieve it.

  84. Who’da thunk M1 Word Clearing could bring such spiritual realizations?!
    LRH did! Thank you very much!

  85. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    Starz series PILLARS OF THE EARTH
    A very good representation of what a church really is. Ken Follett wrote the book by the same name. Two appropriate quotes. The first regarding evil betrayed leadership. The second one
    addressed to the full congregation on completion of the cathedral on what a church building represents and what a church actually is. 

    PILLARS OF THE EARTH (Starz NW – summer 2010)
    Without the benefit of the back story….. This monk who was punished unjustly was was offered a significant promotion, a position to replace the Bishop, who was to return to Rome. THe position was offered and expected to be taken by the bishop himself, the very same bishop who delivered the initial punishment (though carried out by others).  The monk delivers this response to the bishop:

    “You have taught me, you see. 
    Politics may be a bargain between beggars;  but compromise … between good and evil is never possible. God’s work does not blend with power or greed. 
    Your model is corrupt, and the walls of the church will crumble and the roof will fall and you and everyone who worships with you will be crushed. 
    I would rather sooner live out the rest of my days feeding pigs at the monastery than feeding your ravenous ambition.”


    The same priest/monk’s closing statement to the congregation from inside the cathedral:  

    “When we began work on the Kingsbridge Cathedral, King Stephen was newly crowned and the princess Maude fled to France with her newborn son Henry. 

    “For years England was torn by war and great suffering.  King Stephen is since dead and Maude’s son now rules as King Henry the second of England. 

    “Now we have peace and hope for a bright tomorrow and for these gifts and our beautiful church I thank God, our King, the people of Kingsbridge and several generations of tireless workers. But the cathedral is not finished and nor will it ever be. 

    “Just as human perfection is something we all strive for, and can never attain, so this church will forever be changing, growing, crumbling at times, an ongoing legacy of our feeble efforts to touch God.  

    “A cathedral my friends is neither stone, nor statues, nor even a place of prayer. It is a continuum of creation, beautiful work that pray God will never end. 

    “And as one final note of grace….. I…. uh…need I point this out….. Jack finished the windows with….who would have heard of it ……. colored glass…..[laughing]….. [Jack’s mother] …he filled this world with light – God be praised. “

  86. Yes indeed. I can just see and hear this priest if he was a scientologist – “Three swings of the needle? WTF! PHFFFFTTTTT!” – tosses e-meter over his shoulder and turns back to really auditing the pc…….

  87. OK, I’ll bite – since nobody else has…. (after all, since Kulture’s not my strong point I’d only look stupid trying to make intelliegent comment on this vital subject…)

    Screed of the Church

    “We of the CofM believe:

    That all men, preferably sort of Aryan looking, (dim tolerance of blacks and Jews reluctantly permitted), were created with certain rights;

    That such men have inalienable rights to their own DM-brand of reverse-Scientology practices and their performance;

    That such men have inalienable rights to their own obedience to Lord Miscavige;

    That such men have inalienable rights to their sanity (defined as acceptance of the rightness of Lord Miscavige) ;

    That all men have inalienable rights to Lord Miscavige’s defense;

    That all men have inalienable rights to conceive, choose, assist or support their own Idle organisations, (Amex welcome; remortgages happily arranged);

    That all men have inalienable rights to think GAT-style, to talk GAT-style, to write freely of their own slavish adoration of Lord Miscavige’s most wonderful benevolence;

    That all men have inalienable rights to the creation of their own kind, except if not allowed to, and if abortion-persuasion-tech has failed ;

    That the souls of men have the rights of men, within certain parameters as periodically updated by Lord Miscavige;

    That the study of the mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should be abolished since Lord Miscavige has proved standard tech pre-1986 doesn’t work;

    And that no agency less than Lord Miscavige has the power to suspend or set aside these rights, overtly or covertly.

    And we of the Church believe:
    That man is basically (up to no) good;

    That he is seeking further sec checks;

    That his survival depends upon Lord Miscavige and upon his fellow Kool Aid drinkers and his attainment of brotherhood within that universe.

    And we of the Church believe that the laws of God make it inconvenient but entirely possible for man:
    To destroy his own kind;

    To destroy the sanity of another;

    To destroy or enslave another’s soul (except in the good cause of going straight up and vertical);

    To destroy or reduce the survival of one’s companions or one’s group.

    And we of the Church believe that the spirit can be saved by acheiving the staus of Patronus Maximus Mastercardus and that the Lord Miscavige and OSA Int alone may save or heal my body.

  88. Jim – Those are excellent sentiments on the yin-yang. Here is a visual example of how it works and how it can go wrong.

  89. This has been a great thread and brings much to mind. Jacob Needleman who teaches Philosophy at San Francisco University has wriiten several good books. “Lost Christianity” comes to mind. He writes, to paraphrase him, of the constant need to infuse religion with the Holy Spirit(Theta), moment to moment, in present time. This is done by living beings, in other words, by us.
    Otherwise religion becomes form empty of substance, as it has in the Co$ of Miscavige. The “substance” is “life”, Theta, the Holy Spirit.

    Here is one example of how it is done: the Missa Luba is the Catholic Mass set to traditional Congolese music. This is from the original album. Also check out the same Mass (Missa Luba) done by the St John’s Student Choir.
    The “Kyrie” is one part, the entire Mass is well worth listening to.

    “Kyrie Eleison” is Greek. It means “Lord Have Mercy”, but also means more. It is an ancient invocation which calls down the Holy Spirit, Theta, to be present among us and within us.

    Or as one translation from the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas has it: “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”

  90. Funny.

    I’ve always considered the Golden Age of Tech as an effort to turn the Applied Philosophy of Scientology into some kind of rote religious ritual.

  91. You’ve said it all. Damn fine, too. I’m LMAO. Tx.

  92. Missa Luba needs good speakers or earphones. The big bass drums are totally lost when I listen on my laptop without earphones.

  93. True that the video is not embedded on the site and you must go to YouTube to view it.

    But I’m sorry, the person that Bill Maher is interviewing in the view seems like he is “out of his mind” in many place and I don’t see how Bill Maher could be having such a good time interviewing him.

  94. “passed by one vote.”

    LOL. I didn’t get the joke (by Bill Mahr), until you just posted that. That was funny.

  95. Or it “just passed by one vote.” (DM’s)

  96. “Now I know that there is no religion run by Man that does not have some form of these corruptions.”

    Yeah, something seems to always go wrong with the comm formula.

    That’s why the religion thing only seems to work best when it’s as close to one-on-one as possible. And when personal integrity’s along for the ride.

  97. martyrathbun09

    “Stupid” ideas. The priest is perfectly right. Scientologists’ pretending to know all, and able to answer all questions, makes them boring, abhorrent little creatures to others.

  98. Would be releasing if DM simply disappeared into the sewers, where he came from.

    But how should an org/church/movement then be reorganized?

    Have just listened to these two wonderful SHSBC lectures, and they may present a piece of the answer.
    States of Identity(#6609c08)
    Government & Organization(#6611c01)

    On the second lecture there’s stuff about government of Rome, and why it failed, but the fascinating thing for me is how LRH explains the fundamentals of setting up a governing body, where the key concept is representation, and he mentions it should be used in scn too when the movement becomes a certain size(quite a surprise for me). Looking at DMs mess, it is absolutely incredible how many transgressions he is doing against this lecture. Could almost seem as he is on a complete reverse vector.

    In both lectures there is also stuff about ethics/ability, which gives a much better understanding of why all these ethics codes and policies had to be pushed into the movement. As many have commented on this blog, that push did not seem to go very well and was part of why things got very tense and so difficult to keep on the rails, afterwards (easier to hit than hat).

    How many codes and rules does a group need to be safe from real SPs, plants and suppressive environments? That is a very interesting question. All the introduced security/ethics codes have not prevented SP slime like DM to rise to power, which is what it should have effected, no? Maybe the track of scn shows that going the way of relying too heavily on massive amounts of rules for safety does not work even in a very bright and OT group. So less rules and more theta present with precise courteous ethics/justice handling is required in the future, or what?

    Certainly, many other groups who are attacked have this same kind of track of inadequate defense, corruption, ending up being a ‘building’, with the message muddled or lost. The video is a great example.

    Looking forward to experience a better organized and safer scn movement rising out of the ashes of the dead church.

    Pax Romana to you too Centurion and all the others on this blog!

  99. There is an interesting discussion evolving onESMB, on this thread: Karen Neil OTVII Behaving Badly. This went off onto some Anons discussing why it is so hard to get through to churchie scientologists and get them to “face the truth”.

    The answer is summed up in this post there:

    [QUOTE=Kookaburra;483640]Panda, we’ve been hitting the “were here to help” and “it’s OK to have doubts since we started. I have yet to hear “You’re f’kn brainwashed, You Stupid Clam”. It’s just not what Anonymous is about. Every effort is made to get through to Scientologists.[/QUOTE]

    Here’s the answer:

    “Anons are failing to get through to church scientologists for one simple reason: they are not providing the the key message that would enable and empower those still “in” to cut the strings – “The entire Bridge as LRH intended it to be, is available outside the CoS cheaper, faster, and pain-free.” (By which I mean no reging for donos, no sec checks, no threats, no phony ethics actions, etc.)

    Think about it – what do churchies think they are defending and protecting? It is basically their access to “the tech”. They do not know it is available worldwide outside of the Co$. That’s the only thing keeping them in -their belief the tech is only available within the Co$.

    Until Anons and critics confront THAT truth, their efforts will be stalled as they are now.
    Do you like negative “attack” ads in politics? Would you buy a Chevy because GM aired lots of ads saying “Ford sucks, Ford is evil”? I wouldn’t. It’s always better to promote the benefits of the alternative.

    Anyone knows it’s better to promote the positive, than to attack with the negative all the time.

    The problem is, some Anons and some critics have an agenda, which is to turn people away from scientology completely. These do not really want to give anyone a free choice, so they can’t bring themselves to adopt a strategy that would actually work to get people out of the Co$.

    If you really want to get people out of the Co$, just hammer home the idea that all the scientology tech they want is available cheaper, better, and faster outside of the Co$.

    How many critics and Anons really have the balls to do that? To stick up for the real freedom of choice of others?”

  100. There’s only one comment I’d like to make regarding that Screed:


    Good one Martin 🙂

  101. One of my favorite Pope stories is about Michelangelo’s painting of The Last Judgment, on the altar wall in the Sistine Chapel. It depicts Jesus Christ with “enlightened souls” on his right going up to heaven (freedom) and “damned (solid/twisted) souls” going to forever entrapment (fire/hell). Around Jesus Christ are suns, planets, and saints. Souls are rising out of bodies in graves, etc.

    Well, the Pope really knew a artist when he saw one (and Michelangelo was that — also a great poet, and I have 100 of his poems translated into English, wondrous honesty of soul). And he paid Michelangelo to paint and sculpt (NOT gaudy faux “art”, we’re talking the real thing! that packs power. And communicates across centuries)

    Michelangelo regarded the human body as something pure, not shameful, and as simply a form, a creation of Eternity (8th dynamic). He painted the human form nude.

    One afternoon, Michelangelo heard the Pope’s Master of Ceremonies, a man named Biagio da Cesena, complaining about the nude cherubs and people, saying it was scandalous and filthy. He frequently went on that the human body was “shameful” and these were not the images for a church, but for a brothel.

    At one point, as a result of this influence, they hired artists to go around painting little cloth “flourishes” over Michelangelo’s figures to cover up the bodies. These artists, more tradesmen than creators, were derisively called “britches makers.”

    But the divine part of the story is the day Biagio da Cesena came to visit the Sistine Chapel and noticed Michelangelo had painted the character Minos, the Judge of Souls, in Hell ….in the spitting image of Biagio himself! Minos in fact was a portrait of Biagio da Cesena, the papal Master of Ceremonies, in Hell, with jackass ears!

    Biagio was outraged! He complained to the pope about having been placed in Hell by Michelangelo and demanded he order him to remove the fresco painting. .. to which Pope Paul III opened his arms and sadly shrugged, telling Biagio that if Michelangelo had painted him in Purgatory, maybe he could have done something about it, but not even a Pope could get someone out of hell.

    At least that Pope knew and respected artists must speak Truth!! 🙂

  102. Markus Stuckenbrock

    Dear Karen,
    I’m sitting here in front of my monitor and tears are running down my cheeks. “For no reason at all, I knelt down and wept”
    I had some very similar experiences since my brother died in October 2008
    – kneeling in a beautiful church thinking about my loved ones who were robbed and killed by this so called church. My mother saved me from a similar fate like my brother Uwe had to endure in the Sea Org in California

    when she and my grandma gave me shelter and love after my escape from the CoS in autum 1983 -I even had signed the Billion year contract in Copenhagen and was on the EPF in Flag- she was able to do this because she never fully stepped into this trap. She always remained a Christian with all the loving and caring aspekts of this religion – so visiting a church is like coming home for me – churches are the places where my mother (who died in 2004) and Uwe are with me very often. It is the peace and love which is living in these holy walls and the memories from the childhood – Christmas – Sankt Martin – Easter – a loving mother spending a lot of time with their children buying ice cream and go to the lake for a bath, doing handcrafts with chestnuts, baking cookies and even visiting soccer games in other countries with me because I no longer had a father who had time for such simple things because he became a true Scientology believer and left his family alone. Uwe is with me there – a marvellous brother who was free and full of life and dreams for his life then. We are sitting on the big birch tree near the harbour in Friedrichshafen at The Lake of Constance again watching the ships coming in and sailing out. My brother showed me how to climb the trees then. He wasn’t as lucky as I was – when he needed the care, love and shelter he was too deep in the trap to be able to escape and the love to his wife held him back too long – so the distance, his illness and the criminal suppression mechanisms made it impossible for him to break free for good. And after he managed to escape from the Int. base once he was lured back by the woman he truly loved – but she betrayed him and left him alone with his MS.
    I kneel down in front of the burning candles – I light three new candles and I’m saying a prayer for Mum, for Uwe and my family.
    Next time I will light a candle for you and your family too.
    Emotions are wonderful things without them how do we love? Without love how do we care? Without care how do we live.


  103. Old cuff said:-

    “The building of aesthetic churches, or any other Theta Trap (which are ALL baited with aesthetics), is only a symptom the the dwindling spiral is still dwindling. Stupidity is a 2nd Postulate (Not Know, Alter-Is, Not-Is), following the 1st Postulate of (Know, or As-Is). The resulting by-product is MEST, or unknown considerations, or stupidity.”

    Yet LRH wrote the art series.

    We here are playing games. Yes per our scriptures aberrated, yet
    “Evidently the greatest curse is idleness.” True for me.

    Most of my early life I was an atheist/agnostic. Then Scn reached me.

    Never liked what I knew of Christianity until I met my father again after decades. He was an episcopalian priest and, ultra liberal and radical [ I bless such genes 🙂 ] and an excorsist and healer.

    Also a member of the Westar instuitute, aka the jesus Seminary.

    They re translated the new testament and with input from the sayings Gospel of St Thomas considered by vote, 250 or so members, which of the alleged sayings of Jesus were actually said by him. Among the many logical parameters they used was that common place statements could not be
    assigned an author. However iconoclastic and new statements may be
    original to this iconoclastic reformer. Perhaps surprisingly the movie director Paul Vervhoven is a member

    Such is the parable of the good Samaritan. One who is considered at the time socially abhorrent to a pharisee helps him. Its like OSA
    helping Marty by giving him formerly not available materials.
    [Hint] 🙂

    The book is titled ” The Five Gospels.” Has 91 sayings by Jesus as
    voted by around 250 biblical scholars including Jews and Muslims.

    So I am some sort of Christian.

    My interaction with ” Cathedrals” is primarily aesthetic. Been to
    Notre Dame, Cologne, Salisbury and in India Ajunta and Ellora,
    and the incredibly beautiful temples of Khajuraho, noted for the erotic content.

    Liked the earlier COS publications of how other and old religions were saved by scn concepts. Now I see them as simplistic and facile.
    So decades older etc. 🙂

    Dunno if they ever considered Crowley who LRH recomended as good reading material in PDC lectures. He it seemed took his ideas from much earlier commentaries, possibly going back to ancient Egypt, via the Kabballah. And we their find the precurser to the factors!

    So we are looking at religious philosophy and so on. For me I
    experience this among other ways as music. I love the great masses, whether Catholic, protestant or other. However the greatest most inspiring example is Bach’s Mass in B minor, have 5 versions and still collecting.

    For those who are not into classical, lend me your ears. 🙂
    The final exhilarating movement.

  104. Thought Provoking

    Great story!

  105. Pingback: Top Posts —

  106. Very impressive, Veritas (as usual)!

    FYI, the Crystal Cathedral has filed bankruptcy – Perhaps the idle orgs will follow suit if Dear Leader doesn’t support them from his coffers offshore.

  107. Oh wow! Love it!

  108. Valkov~You’ve hit the nail on the head. THAT was the bottom line for me, as I’m sure it is for everyone, because even losing your friends, family and job is easier to face than losing the tech.

  109. Thanks for the confirmation Tara. I kinda thought I was on a roll today, it’s good to know it clicked for another, too.

  110. Yes, the formidable The Wall of Drills. Gets one to the operating state of DB VIII – totally Robotic auditor, attention fixated on the e-meter, and released from all responsibilty for the session.

  111. Your humble servant

    Great story, Veritas, thank you!

  112. “This will enable society to create enough antibodies to reject him..”

    Excellent point MQ. It’s allowing those of us practicing independently to start to speak out in public forums about the difference(s) between Corporate Scientology(TM) and the subject of Scientology as a philosophy and set of tools.

    I think these interviews by Trey Lotz are an excellent example:

  113. Right on Terril.

    MEST maybe a trap in it’s own way, but didn’t LRH write that “Theta is engaged upon the conquest of MEST”? That’s how Theta learns, isn’t it, by reaching and withdrawing, getting itself “trapped” and finding it’s way out again until Theta achieves mastery over traps?

    And MEST is one of the 8 dynamics, after all. To achieve wholeness(OT) again, it must be embraced and mastered just as the other dynamics, as part of one’s self.

    And the great artists, whether architects or musicians and composers, are tops at confronting and fashioning MEST into more than it started out being. By shaping it as they do, they “move MEST on up a little higher”…..

    Those old boys like Beethoven, Bach, Michelangelo, and the creators of the cathedrals really knew how to do it, too. Shaping sound or stone into an esthetic, uplifting experience for us all.

  114. Yep that pretty much describes it.

    My wife had the suspicion that it was Cruise that helped devise many of those insane robotic drills.

  115. let’s get exited.

  116. Karen, that was more than a post; it was a meditation on spiritual beauty and peace. Churches are sacred spaces, house of the Holy Spirit. A great deal of care goes into building a true Temple because a sacred relationship between Divine and Human energy occurs. The altar is the place where Heaven and Earth meet and gifts are offered.

    Metaqual’s incredibly beautiful post on the Cathedral as the womb of the Goddess, the seat of Creation speaks to the primacy and sacredness of Life. A Cathedral expresses the reverence and gratitude of a spiritual community the Gift of Life and Divine Love, Grace, and Mercy.

    Agape, the unconditional love of the Divine for all people is poured out in sacred spaces from cathedrals, to fields, or to wherever else a person or a group meets to commune with the Divine in whatever form they behold the Divine.

    A scared space can be magnificent or humble, it does not matter. What matters is what the people who gather therein do, how their hearts are illuminated and filled by the Divine energies.

    What is lacking in a Church of Scientology Orgs is a sense of the Sacred, of the Divine, and of Love. A CoS Org is a place where business is transacted in dollars and cents and technology is delivered with a view towards turning people into obedient robots whose TR’s are optimized into sterility infused by fear.

    I work in lighting. When I look at lighting in great sacred spaces, I can see that it is skillfully designed to uplift and inspire people. When lighting, music, and architecture come together in a sacred space, the Divine manifests and fuses with the spiritual community of people gathered therein.

    As a lighting expert, when I look at Scientology Orgs, I see the same lighting layout used in Barnes & Noble. The lighting in Orgs is a competent commercial grade layout designed to sell books and CD’s. The lighting is also designed to integrate with the subdued surveillance cameras.

    IMO, Orgs are nothing more than retail spaces, They are designed for both sales and loss prevention.


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