by Steve “Sarge” Pfauth
Toward the end of my years as ‘rover’ I lived in an RV park in a small town called Devore. Devore was a little town north of San Bernadino California. I coined the term ‘Rover’ as I didn’t really have a post. During those years I just floated around and did backup stuff for Pat Broker and LRH. We used the Devore RV park for ‘meets’ with DM and JB and a safe place for Pat and I to operate from. .
Early 1983, after LRHs birthday in March, Pat brought a horse to Devore. The horse was a beautiful thoroughbred mare named ‘January’. January was a birthday present from Pat and Annie Broker to LRH. We found a local with a corral for rent in the town of Devore and I took care of ‘January’. I fed, brushed and curried her and would ride her around the corral bareback (didn’t have a saddle). She loved me and I her.
One day in early May ‘83’ Pat came with a horse trailer and we loaded January up and off they went. Pat also had me look for another RV park where we could park an
RV or vehicle. I found a place on hwy 95(?) west of Victorville, Cal. It was a little RV park tucked away in a box canyon in the mountains. Later on when I was courier at Creston I would use this park as a vehicle relay point to change vehicles before going to Int (S) or LA. Well, after the Beverly Hills restaurant thing where Pat and DM had me burning a 20 dollar bill, I knew something was up.
It was mid May of ‘83’ when Pat showed up at the Devore RV park and told me to
pack up my stuff. He said I was moving and wouldn’t be back. We drove for a long time and finally we arrived at the sleepy little town of Creston. Creston was a small town in the coastal range of California in San Luis Obispo county. This was horse country.
Kenny Rogers had a big horse ranch there. Creston had two bars (Longbranch and Loadingshute), a Church, a small school, Post office and a few houses. Whispering Winds Ranch was about a mile south of town on a private road.
Pat didn’t tell me where we were going until we made the turn south of Creston. Pat said I was going to a ranch to work for the ‘old man’. Pat told me that I needed to choose an AKA (also known as) name to use. We had the radio on and the group ‘Carpenters’ were singing ‘its only just begun’. So I said Carpenter. I needed to choose a first name and I had to eliminate other names I had used. I thought about it and I just wanted to be an ordinary ‘Joe’. So now I was ‘Joe Carpenter’.
We got settled in and Pat showed me around the ranch. I saw my old friend ‘January’ and she was as glad to see me as I her. I also met ‘Rojo’. Rojo was a large ‘American saddle’ horse that we got with the property. Rojo was suppose to be my horse. He was a gelding and had a great disposition. We got along fine.
I started to work the next day and met the electrical contractors that installed all the electrical for the RV hookups at the stables. I ran all the water lines and plumbing etc. I went to town and bought lots of tools etc to setup the place. The ranch had been neglected and was very run down after a messy divorce by the previous owner. The ranch looked bad but it had potential. Lots of work to do.
After a couple weeks of setups, about early to mid June, we had completed the setups and were ready for LRH. Pat took me for a walk and stopped me and said “Sarge! If you ever blow, I will track you down and I will kill you”. It was tone 40 and meant to impinge. Now, Pat and I didn’t always agree but we got along and I thought we were friends. This just blew my mind. Anyway he told me he was going to go get ‘the old man’ and Annie and to expect them mid to late afternoon.
I hung out at the stables and cleaned the stables apartment and took care of the horses etc and waited for his arrival. I was very nervous. I double checked everything.
There were two vehicles. The ‘Bluebird’ was a large bus converted into a motor home. The ‘Country Aire’was a 40 foot long trailer pulled by a truck. The ‘Bluebird’ entered the gate first and stopped about 50 yards from the stables next to the lake. Annie was driving. I was standing at the end of the stables when LRH came bounding out of the ‘Bluebird’ and yelled ‘SARGE!’. Yikes! Anyone who knew LRH can attest that he had a booming voice. Now all the neighbors knew he arrived. I was surprised and happy at the same time. I hurried to the Bluebird to greet him. By the time
I got there Annie was there beaming at me. She said ‘hello’ and gave me a big hug.
I don’t remember seeing LRH so excited. He was giddy. All smiles and I could tell he was happy to see me and finally have a home again. Wow!
LRH gave me a conspiratorial look and asked “what’s your handle”?
I said “Joe Carpenter”. He laughed and told me that was a great name. Made me feel good as I thought so too.
Then he said my name is ‘Jack Farnsworth’, and he laughed again. I told him that was a great name. We exchanged ‘shore stories’ so we were on the same page. Pat was Mike Mitchell, the owner of the property. Annie was Lisa Mitchell, Mike’s wife and LRH was Lisa’s father. I was Joe, a friend of the family hired to help run the property.
LRH stared at me, still smiling, and asked me “who do I look like”? I said I don’t know. He said “ no, really who do I look like”? He could tell I was uncomfortable so he said “Colonel Sanders!” He laughed again and then we all did. He really did. His hair was long and white with a little red and he had a beard and he was dressed like a southern gentlemen.
Pat and I got the RVs hooked up and everyone settled in while I cooked dinner. I setup a card table in the stables living room and we all sat around eating and talking. It was great. LRH loved what I cooked and that was the end of the first day at Creston.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Sarge,
Thank you for sharing this with us. Amazing post!
Thanks Sarge,
I’m hanging around with Ken Urquhart right now doing my OT Levels and I’m getting some great stories from him also. Wow, he was his butler at Saint Hill and he worked with him daily. Wonderful theta stories.
We want more!
Thanks Sarge.
I love reading these stories.
So don’t stop writing them.
Or “I will kill you” 🙂
Ml
RJ
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Joe Carpenter – That was beautiful! Thank you for sharing that with us. Contrast the kindness and genuine friendship on that day to what you have in the church today. It’s astounding. We have it again here with the new group. Lots of love to you Mr. Carpenter. Big hugs!
Sarge,
I really just needed to see exactly this story tonight.
Glad you picked up on my intention;)
This was wonderful, thank-you.
What a generous gift!!
What a treat!
Thanks Sarge!
Great “first day” story, Sarge. Thanks for sharing it. I can’t picture LRH with a beard … but the image of Col. Sanders helps. 🙂
Your stories are such a treasure, Sarge. Thanks again for sharing.
Thank you Sarge for sharing this wonderful story of you and LRH.
What a great story! Thanks for sharing it, Sarge. I couldn’t help but get a big ol’ smile on my face reading how LRH greeted you when he arrived. 🙂
Why all the fake names, secrecy, and “shore stories”?
And Joe arrives with a with a great story! Wow!
Thank you, Sarge.
Bruce Pratt
That’s awesome.
Sarge, please keep ’em comin’. We LOVE these stories! What a theta way to end the day. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks Sarge! You made my day.
Thanks so much, Sarge. Please, please, please, give us more! I love your writing style! ML,
T
Great background story.
What a fantastic story! Thanks Joe… er ah, Sarge!
Sarge, Great, great story. One of these days I swear I will do a portrait of LRH with that old mock up of his, with the long hair and Colonel Sanders goatee. Only a few of us have ever seen that mockup and to me it was unbelievably cool. He looked so goddam cool with that long red hair spilling down onto his shoulders and wonderful white goatee. That was the same mock up he had the day you dropped us off at La Quinta back in 1977. He cut it back a bit when Cine started and there were a couple photos of him at the time but I guess he went back to the Col. Sanders get up later on again. Very, very cool.
I can see why you’re so dangerous, Sarge. You put a human face on the Old Man. Keep it coming! ML, Huck
Thank you Sarge/Joe for all the theta you bring to this blog. PLEASE keep writing more. This was the desert, now it is time for lots of juicy main course. Keep it coming my friend.
I love reading your stories with LRH.
Awesome Sarge! I’m hanging on waiting for more. The horses sound fine. What a rover you were. 🙂
Peaches and cream Sarge! Love these stories from you. I really do get the wavelength of the scene when you tell them.
More Joe Carpenter!
ML Tom
Sarge, the “LRH Biography” is unfolding for everyone to see – Wonderful!. Anyone having been around the block for a while knows from the “old days” that “LRH stories” were a MUST at events – told simply, no hype, not polished – simply real, the way you tell it. Keep ’em coming as so many comments before mine already say. It’s wonderful. It’s totally OK with me if you write very, very, very long “stories” 🙂 – on this blog you have a very large audience, much larger than some other ‘events’ not appropriate here to mention as it might be considered bad taste 🙂
Beautiful story, Thanks Sarge, please continue.
Sarge, I’d love to hear all of your stories. I can never get myself away from them. They always fill in some gaps for me and complete something. Ever considered writing a book? 🙂
Dominic
Great to hear another LRH story, Sarge, Thanks a bunch!
It’s always good to read your stories, please keep them coming as they occur to you.
As an afterthought: at corporate c of m events “LRH stories” are treated as almost “confidential”, handed out sparsely and almost without context so as not to get a proper picture of the whole – just another way, really, of saying, Sarge and other old-old timers, please continue …
Dear Sarge,
Only you could fill us in on these Creston Stories. Everyone wants more…please do continue. You told this one beautifully. Thanks much for sharing.
You made my day!
Hot dogs! Thanks!
Tell us more!
…not to mention the death threats.
Just another day in the golden age of Scientology.
Grazie sarge, il battaglione italiano e’ sintonizzato !! Tku sarge , italian battalion is connected !
Great story. Looking forward to the next chapter.
Dear Mr Pfauth
Thank you for taking the time to write up your memories of your time with LRH. It truly means a lot to me.
I got into Scientology in London in 1975.
Scientology actually saved my life.
I was alone and desperate at the time. Coming from Australia, I had never heard of Scientology. When I needed some work, I answered an ad in a London paper. It turned out to be Tony Brown’s cleaning company (Tony was also an Aussie). When I went for the interview, a bloke called Gerry got me to do a personality test – 200 questions – took forever. When Gerry did the evaluation, it blew my mind as to how accurately it descirbed my life at that point in time.
I already knew that communication was my button. (I wasn’t out the bottom as such, just having difficulties with reality – the drugs didn’t help. Was I in a state that I wouldn’t have made it if I hadn’t come across Scientlogy.) When Gerry said I should go and do a communication course, I was there, it indicated. He gave me an address in Tottenham Court Rd and said to ask for a Phil Stedman. A day two later I went to this address (that was my comm lag at the time), walked in and ask for Phil. I signed up for the Comm Course and have been a Hubbard Knight ever since. (I well remember Hayden James from London org. The embodiment of ARC. I have your email address Hayden and will drop you a line sometime soon. Seems I still have a comm lag.)
So, in having said all that, I’d like to conclude with this. I would consider it a great privilege if those who have worked with LRH could at some time, write up your experience with him (good or bad) and publish it on Mr Rathbun’s blog (if he will permit it). It will provide a connection to LRH which can fill a space in our reality. As such, it would be greatly appreciated.
As a postscript. Even back in the late ’70s, I realized that micromanagement by stats was nuts. Having been the effect of it from time to time by various staff terminals (people who were trying to avoid a bollicking).
When the “Under New Management” sign goes up on the orgs, AOs and Flag, stats had better be one of the things missing in order to entice me back in. Except for these two: Number of PCs having wins, and, Number of students having wins from learning the tech to become auditors (voluntarily attested). All other stats, as far as I’m concerned, are bollocks.
Cheers
The Wolf
Second that request in FULL.
It’s the LRH Biography as told by those who have worked with him first hand (not second, third and many other hand). Yes, all, the good, the bad and everything in between.
OK, I say it: P-L-E-A-S-E – !
Nice story. Sarge, keep writing. Its good for the soul. Yours, ours, the groups.
Wonderful story about LRH and the two horses.
Sarge,
Thanks for telling us about these events and circumstances. It really has provided a nice way to start out my day. I took note of the horses. Then I ran across a quote this morning that ties that together.
“Until one has loved an animal a part of one’s soul remains unawakened.”—Anatole France
I look forward to meeting you someday.
ML, Tom
You da man Sarge! Thanks for this great reminiscence.
Over on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board, there are lots of people like DartsMohen, Mystic (Gordon Bell), the late Alan Walter, and many others who have told lots of first hand stories about LRH and the development of the tech.
Some of the original members of the Sea Project are there, staff members and students from Saint Hill, some of the original crew from the Apollo, Mission Into Time, and of course many of the staff and crew when Ron developed OT 3 and many other OT levels are all there.
There are even 1 or 2 who were in Phoenix with Ron in the early 50’s, who did the Hubbard Professional Course with him there.
There are lots of first hand stories to be heard on L Ron Hubbard.
So come on over to ESMB.
It’s what all the cool kids are doing!
Mostly by folk with monstrous self-importance buttons, from the motivatorish, small-minded viewpoints of those who wanted to be the man, but couldn’t be the man, cause they weren’t the man. That is why I say you all are really DM supporters by a another name. He hates LRH as much as you all do. Try posting a simple, factual day-in-the-life story about Hubbard that doesn’t have some sinister slant there and get run out of town in a New York minute. Alanzo, I suggest you watch the Larry King interview with John Stewart, with particular emphasis on his view of what has happened with US media and its fixation for feeding the public with personal outpoints about people. People like you act “open minded”, but in fact are part of a cult. The cult destroys any idea or observation that doesn’t coincide with the pack mentality. Acknowledged by you, as evidenced in your last line with exclamation point.
Marty,
One of Miscavige’s more devious plots has been to hijack the Old Man, so that LRH* has been reduced to a *Copyright, legally owned by DM.
This is his way of controlling LRH, the only person who could ever stand in his way.
This is why the Old Timers, from Sarge to the original Messengers, are so dangerous to DM. This is why he had you watching the Vegas crowd when they no longer posed a danger; because while they were alive and remembered LRH, they posed a danger.
LRH as playful, mocking himself up as Colonel Sanders, isn’t in the interests of Corporate Fascistic Scientology. (Way too much fun for Miscavige to be able to have).
The first-hand stories of LRH actually return the being to life, so that he’s not merely a Copyrighted image, controlled by a mad tyrant.
Could I suggest setting up a forum within this construct so those with personal LRH stories can share them?
This injection of Theta will deal a blow to Miscavige.
Hey Alanzo and the other bloke….
Before this gets out of hand, take your questions and shove em. If you have read through even 1/3rd of the posts on this blog you’d have the answer to your questions.
My dear friend Sarge has taken the time to relate some of the most intimate aspects of HIS OWN life, that happens to include specifics about his relationship with LRH, a dear friend to many of us here. It is unadulterated and beautiful. In fact, it simply is information about the unaldulterated charachter and personality of both Sarge and LRH. After reading such stories you can do nothing but see how simple and gentle these two men actually are.
For me personally, Sarge’s, Dan’s, Janis’s and others stories not only acknowledges the true beauty of their own core charachter but it gives good clarity into what we as INT Base Staff , Messengers etc.. were all about and for whom it was we really were working for — a great great simple joyus man, LRH. IF you talked the talk and walked the walk of each person whom I saw at INT then you’d have a valid place and voice into this life of ours.
Shut the fuck up, sit back, listen and enjoy. PLEASE!
Marty, I know you work outrageous hours and are passionate about allowing valid, contributing productive voices and comments on this blog, mine hopefully being one of them, but can I ask….. can we keep those who stop by to lay a turd on the freshly cut and well grommed lawn of ours? I really hate the brown spots they inevitablly create! If not possible, well then they had just better be ready for a stiff dose of Jackson when they show up and deliver such crappy contributions.
Sarge, thank you man. Thank you, thank you – THANK YOU!
— Jackson
My needle is floating!
Awesome story Sarge! Thank you for sharing.
This is a very good time for those with no “axe to grind” regarding LRH to tell their stories, as truthfully as possible, after so many years.
Myth-making by Miscavige tends to obscure the real LRH; an SP like Miscavige is delighted to do this.
“Truth” about LRH doesn’t HAVE to be ugly. That English butler did a very tasteful service to LRH in telling his LRH stories.
Miscavige lied outrageously to the SCN public, dismissing Pat Broeker as “mere domestic help”. Broeker, quite evidently, is just one more spineless 1.1, but this does NOT mean that “Miscavige is therefore right”. Nonetheless, anyone who has been privy to the goings-on at Author’s Services circa mid-80s knows that Broeker was “in the loop” on many key decisions.
He was NOT a “butler”.
The 1.1 was beaten by the 1.5.
We need many more revelations to let us all know what was really happening back then from 1983-86. This is a CRITICAL POINT in human history…..let’s not blow it, as Dr. Denk did.
Sarge,
Your stories are so wonderful! As someone above said, it is great for the group for you to tell these stories, so that we can know what LRH, the man, and LRH, the friend, was like. Don’t wait too long for the next one!
Lots of love, Lady Minn
Sarge,
Great beginning of the story. Continue!
Thank you Sarge for your fine Story of accounts of things. Thank you for being the man you are.
CD
Sarge,
Thanks for the very personal R story. Very enjoyable.
The Highway you were trying to refer to near Victorville, CA is the 395 btw.
The 395 Hwy leads to Mammoth Lakes, and beyond to the Tahoe area. The highway begins in Hesperia, and I suspect that RV park is around the town of Adelanto.
Sarge – these stories are priceless, absolutely priceless. Thanks so much and look forward to the next chapter! SK
Nice story Sarge.
I guess this is the only place to get a “day in the life of LRH and friends”.
Thanks!
And alive to tell the story!
Phil Spickler. Nuff said.
I second your motion, Jackson. It is one thing to offer up thoughtful viewpoints, even if they are contrary to the viewpoints of others. It is quite another matter to come here for the sole purpose of disparaging a man for whom most of us have the utmost admiration. Alanzo seems to wallow in such disparagement and it really does get tiresome.
Thanks Sarge. You made me feel more ‘whole’.
I was in the SO 20 years. I heard many many first hand stories. Back then I didn’t ‘need’ them. I LOVED my life in the SO. The bad experiances faded away because the work was so much fun. In fact my biggest grudge is that I had to spend a few hours after post writting KRs. Even thou I was OT IV, the case gain from post competance and helping others was at least equall.
Now I ‘need’ them – these stories.
It also may have helped you to share.
Thanks Sarge & Marty and all you out there that are picking up the pieces and bringing all us wandering souls back together.
I feel like I had a real session 🙂
Hey there Sarge,
Thanks so much for writing this up. Pay no mind to the naysayers.
For you and some of the rest of us, this is in many ways an intensely personal matter.
While I was in communication often with the Old Man during this era, and was able to see the Creston Ranch shortly after he passed on, it is priceless to hear these every day stories – living and working in the Bluebird and taking walks on the ranch.
I’m sure we’ll hear more and you are the only one positioned to tell us!
Take care buddy.
Love,
Ted
Jackson
I don’t want to get into an argument with you or upset anyone.
I posted here the other day and basically said good luck to you in your attempts to create a reformation of a very sick church.
The current church has a shocking response to criticism – it won’t hear of it, won’t countenance it, it viciously attacks critics.
I think you need to do better than your response.
All the comments to this particular post are astonishing to a non-Scientologist. Here we have evidence of the lengths LRH went to in order to avoid detection by the authorities, not to mention the behavior of his top Lieutenant in threatening Sarge with death.
Marty needs to continue posting comments from all sides of the spectrum otherwise this will just turn into another version of the “see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil” Co$.
I reckon I HAVE read the majority of the posts on this blog. Perhaps you would be so kind as to point me to the one that explains this story.
In turn I would like to link you to some on-line books written by authors who researched the lifetime of LRH in some detail. I won’t try and link to them here, I reckon that would be pushing my luck. I’m sure you can find them if you want to hear multiple viewpoints of the life of LRH.
Alonzo, some of your posts show a good sense of humor and that is a sign of intelligence. Assuming you deserve a courteous response to your question, LRH was under threat of subpoena from the IRS as far back as 1974 where they had literally hundreds of IRS agents waiting for the Apollo to come ashore at Charleston, South Carolina. If you think the IRS had a valid complaint, study the constitutionality of the IRS and its private incorporation. No other legal body had a supboena on him. Gov agencies also were after him. See my post on the previous days subject.
Sarge, what a wonderful post. Great memories and so clearly stated. I could totally experience the entire story. Thanks for that.
Love Carol
BR,
Not quite, it’s not as far North as Adelanto, more like towards Pearblossom Hwy.
Sarge
Thank you. Your stories are filled with warmth and love. I will always adore reading them as they come from a very special place… your ♥ 🙂
Sarge, I really enjoyed your account. I also appreciated the non-judgmental way you related time, place, form, and event. If I may, I would like to now go off-topic.
I was awakened last night between 11 and midnight by my cellphone ringing. I did not answer it in time, but immediately called back the number displayed, since it originated in Texas where I spent most of this lifetime. The gentleman firmly stated that he had NOT called me. I then noticed I had a voicemail from the same number. It was a reg call from Flag, asking me to call them back at an 877 number. The phone number displayed on my cellphone was from a tiny Northeast Texas town. This morning, I sent an inquiry to AT&T, my wireless provider. I just got this reply:
“We are aware of certain Web sites which may provide a way for a caller to gain unauthorized access to a customer’s wireless voicemail. This is done through technology that makes the call appear that it is coming from a number specified by the “spoofer”, that is, coming from the wireless device itself.
With this unauthorized access, a “spoofer” can use the account to take actions like listening to saved and new messages, setting a password, and placing an outbound call through the return call feature. The “spoofer” can also make it appear that an incoming call is coming from a legitimate business number, shifting accusations to an innocent party for hoax calls to 911, the local pizza place, etc.
We encourage our customers to steer clear of answering calls from any number they are not familiar with. If a charge results on your account that you believe was a result of being “spoofed”, we encourage you to call customer service and have it removed. To file a complaint, contact your local public utilities commission or the Federal Communications Commission at 1-888-CALL FCC (225-5322 ) or http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html.”
Thank you.
More valuable than can be imagined.
More – Please!
What a great story Sarge. Thank you and keep going. I’m going to Burlington, WI this weekend. Why don’t you email me at metaqual@hushmail.com
Here’s another LRH story from my past. I was a new recruit aboard the Apollo and was torn off my basics and assigned to the Tech Training Corp. I would study the Primary Rundown most all day. I noticed I my wallet was missing one day and it had about $200.00 in it. Asking around and not finding it, I was disappointed. It was about all the money I had in the world save for a few Portuguese escudos in my pocket. At the end of each day on the Apollo, we were invited to write a Daily Report to LRH and tell him about our day. Half the crew on an average day wrote to him and you did not expect an answer. He would acknowledge all the reports with a blanket ack in the Orders of the Day. I told him I had lost my wallet and was hoping he could remote view it for me. As usual, I did not expect an answer, but I put out a comm line as a last resort of help. A few days later, I was stopped at the gangway by Stuart Moreau, the MAA , as I left the ship to do morning exercises on the dock. He said is this yours? He was referring to the wallet and gave it back to me with all the money in it and said to thank the Old Man (referring to LRH) as he had something to do with it. I never heard exactly what happened, but I believed LRH was pissed as hell that someone would steal (he did not like thieves) and had HCO do a series of meter checks and what not until the wallet was found. In any event, this was one of many events that taught me to trust LRH. Three years later, my wallet was stolen at FOLO WUS by a kid named Mookie Johnson. It had only six bucks in it that time but I lost my social security and driver’s license and it was a royal pain trying to get those lost documents back. When I returned to the Apollo, I was told about Lonnie Gariepy being put in the chain locker by LRH because he was caught stealing. My visceral response was “Good!” as I hated damn little bastards that stole wallets. As I said one time earlier, Lonnie would have had his hand cut off in a Muslim country, providing it was his first offense.
LRH’s actions towards me and internal PR led me work with him later on in his Personal Office. I can relate well to Sarge’s picture and I tend to agree with Marty’s assessment of those on the other posting boards. I think there is sometimes valuable data about LRH in the entheta posts but they color it with too much of their own issues and opinions.
Another point on Alan Walter. I got to know him a bit when I was doing some work with SMI and saw him almost every day for weeks in the SMI office. I know he likes to brag about how he invented prepared lists, but it came up during that time that he was also the reason LRH created confidential levels. It was when R6EW was being pioneered or just released and Alan was having some domestic squabbles with his wife. In the midst of this, Alan started yelling Routine 6 End Words at her which were considered highly restimulative at the time. Acting as an arbiter in some respects, LRH made the levels confidential so they could not be misused in an overwhelming fashion or to restimulate another which was Alan’s intent. Out of this incident grew the broader confidentiality of future levels.
Thirded!
Alonzo and Sid – do not attempt to take advantage of Sarge to push your agenda.
‘We’ (and I do confidently take the liberty of speaking for many here) will not tolerate it.
Besides, I’m telling you for your own good – you’ve already got Jackson all riled up – trust me you don’t want to get Sarge going sudden again! 😀
You sound like a very sudden handy man to have around Sarge.
Great Story.
Alanzo,
How about getting some good standard auditing to clean up your BPC? You know you’d feel a whole lot better and life a whole lot brighter.
BTW, I knew Alan Walters personally. There were things about him that were quite disturbing, but can all be attributed to his huge ego. Take a look and see for yourself just how much he really cared for his fellow man.
Thank you Sarge, that was riveting from beginning to end! Can’t wait to hear more, leaves us all feeling so good.
Your obnosis on something was up when DM and Broeker were burning a $20 bill was very foretelling of the future. DM is burning through the Church’s and parishioners money, burning thru LRH’s legacy by altering the tech, and on and on…
Dear Sarge,
Thank you very much for writing your personal story about LRH.
Many of us know the kind of man LRH was, whether we actually met him or not, and the sacrifices he made to give us the body of work known as Scientology.
We also KNOW the difference between what David Miscavige and those in Management who follow him are doing to the tech and what LRH intended.
Over the years, David Miscavige has caused untold damage and has succeeded in dragging LRH’s name through the mud. In so doing, he has managed to make LRH appear “goofy and nonsensical.” This has been done through altered tech, elimination of family time, forced disconnections, redefinition of F/N’s, unwarranted sec checks, falsified stats, and horrible PR. For it to be SO BAD, for SO LONG, cannot be an accident; it could only have been done ON PURPOSE and with FULL INTENT to malign LRH’s name.
Even though many of us get this, I find there is still that reactive tendency to forget things we already know. That’s why stories like yours are so vital in reminding us of who LRH really was and what his mission was all about.
Please consider putting your stories together in book form so the truth about LRH is out there for ANYBODY who is truly interested in finding out. I have a good friend who is an accomplished writer and superb editor. He told me he would be more than happy to volunteer his services free of charge to this cause.
Hey VIII, this might be it for you. Your 1.1 stab at Dr. Denk is not only evil there is no basis for it. If you didn’t try to slide things by like this authoritatively – as if you know something other don’t – I’d let you slide. But I think we’re done with you.
The AMA and APA spent hundreds of millions for the “detailed” “research” you cited. I do this for nothing. They’ve had monopolized forums for decades. Now, we’ve got a free one and we’re not rehashing the big boy’s propaganda. There are many weaker forums that do it day in and day out, slavishly, like cult members going after anyone who has anything nice to say. If you want to keep commenting here show some respect to the likes of Jackson, who dedicated his entire teenage and adult life to helping people through the subject Hubbard discovered.
Do we know what ever happened to the Bluebird? It is kind of special.
Sarge,
Thanks for the insight!
I have one question for you (or anyone else that may know) which property in central California had a concrete bunker installed?
Again, thanks for the refreshing story on how it was. You wrote your experience so vividly and well. I can’t wait for your next installment.
Regards,
AB
Marty, I knew Gene very well and I loved him like a brother. Thank you for standing up for Gene. Gene was a good man and a great doctor.
Sarge,
Thank you for your story! I love to hear personal stories with LRH that VALIDATE his true beingness!
Marty,
Can you tell me where the Steve Besio article is posted? I read it, but now I can’t find it. I have been filling in an old friend on the current scene of the Church, and she is finally ready to look for herself. However, she wants to read Steve’s origination. Thanks.
And did everything LRH asked him to.
LRH Made one big mistake, especially in California which is known to be very trendy.
When LRH realized that Sarge looked like Colonel Sanders to him, how come he didn’t send him out for fried chicken?
Pumpkin said “Thanks Sarge & Marty and all you out there that are picking up the pieces and bringing all us wandering souls back together.”
I have to second this. This is an incredible, beautiful and important thing-the reconnecting.
Hi Sarge,
Thank you so much for taking the time to tell these stories. You are an important part of our history!
This is so great!! I love to hear about Independent Scientologists going up the bridge. I hope you will post some wins, maybe on Marty’s new blog-Casablanca.
Very Well done to you and Ken.
Excellent account, Sarge. Thank you! We always love to hear such stories.
Gary:
The truth of the matter is even though LRH tried for make Sarge recognize him as the new pin up guy for the Kentucky Fried Chicken franchises, they didn’t even order Buffalo Wings!
It is a nice story. They all had a good time on their first day at Creston, especially LRH, even in spite of the reasons for them being there and the circumstances surrounding the affair.
DM Is just trying to compensate for many, many past lifetimes of failure by irresponsibly attempting to assume control of the church in this one. Epic fail of course. Knowledge causes a responsibility not ATTITUDE or PRETENDED FRIENDLINESS, which DM is so famous for.
I apologize. My English sometimes needs a repair. Should say:
When LRH realized to Sarge that he {LRH} looked like Colonel Sanders…
Sorry about that.
Sarge, thank you for sharing your very real and down-to-earth stories about Ron. There is a huge void between the spit-shined BS from the church and the rabid rants of those who noisily insist that the man never drew a worthwhile breath. You, by telling your experiences in your own words, are helping to fill that void and create an honest legacy for LRH.
Years ago, I once watched a 1980’s ‘B’ movie; a very, very low budget SciFi movie about a fellow from another planet (who I think might have had a short dark beard).
What stood out very plainly to me were a couple scenes.
In one scene, this fellow was auditing the person in front of him. It definitely was auditing. The person from another planet was asking the other person to recall areas of the past in order to resolve some kind of trauma. Another scene had a semblance of a touch assist or healing.
I often had tried to find it by searching the internet, but have not yet found it.
Do you know anything about this movie?
Marty:
And here I was thinking that OT VIII was an OK guy.
He had me completely fooled and I thought he was an OK guy!
Dr. Denk is Dr. Denk NOT other people’s crude images of him.
Sam, Wish I knew how to make a heart, back at you.
AB, I don’t know about a concrete bunker. Maybe it was put in after I left.
Damn! Shazam! Thank you for this, Man!
I am very glad you too found this place for your anecdotes and choose to use it.
Bruce Pratt
I liked Gene.
He treated me several times when I went PTS and had an excellent bed side manner in Scientological terms high ARC.
Fascinating story, Metaqual. For guys like me, who saw everything from the “outside” more or less, these are the stories we all figured were there waiting to be told. Talk about Omitted Data. I hope those of you who were there, know how interesting your stories are to those of us who weren’t. Thanks, and please keep them coming until they’ve all been told.
Thank you all for your wonderful support of my stories. Ted said it well when he said its personal stuff but I also understand my responsability to
all of you to share those days with LRH. I’m glad to do it. As I said before,
I don’t want to be a rock star. My stories are written from my point of view and they are about my life and times. Sometimes I read what I’ve written and its more about me and not too much LRH. I really don’t know how else to do it and still be accurate. Its been so long ago and the best memories are well remembered but please don’t ask me to tell you what I made for dinner. Looking back it was all a little like ‘Forrest Gump’. All this was happening and I was just there kinda walking through it. I did my best.
“Truth” about LRH doesn’t HAVE to be ugly. That English butler did a very tasteful service to LRH in telling his LRH stories. …. OT VIII
That “English butler” to whom you refer is named Ken Urquhart. Ken is a gentleman and more to the point a gentle man. Out of a sense of personal loyalty to an old friend Ken likes to remember the better side of Hubbard in his recounting of public anecdotes. However, Ken is far from denying the cruelty & viciousness that Hubbard was routinely capable of administering, or willing to condone a general whitewash of Hubbard’s character.
Ken has himself publicly apologized elsewhere [http://kgurquhart.blogspot.com/] for his own failure to be more effective in reigning in and deterring LRH’s many abuses, most especially of the children on the Apollo & rpf’ed staff. Ken is a great being and has always sought to take the high road. This is why Ken left off involvement with the church in the late ’70s, while Hubbard still maintained control of church organizations through his less conscientious associates, those who were themselves more than willing to condone openly criminal activities.
Marty,
I hope you will take this in the spirit that it is intended.
Complete bollocks!
Most of the guys I have come to know on ESMB have no ‘button’ whatsoever on self-importance and your description of people “who wanted to be the man” is unrecognisable to me. And the fact remains that there are many people there who knew LRH and have their own stories to tell.
Tarring them with the same dirty brush just because they don’t have the same view as you is something that I saw too often in the CoS and one of the things that convinced me that things were very wrong. When I met you in London, you impressed upon me the importance of ‘multiple viewpoints’. Well, you are getting some now and you appear to be rejecting them because of some pre-conceived notions about the subject. Aren’t you doing exactly the thing that you have accused DM and his minions of?
And as for saying that we “all are really DM supporters by another name” is frankly ludicrous and obviously untrue. There are many, many ESMBers who have taken positive action to expose and bring to an end the abuses committed by the Tiny Tyrant and his cronies. I don’t like to mention this because I’m sure it is a sore point with many here, but there are plenty of ESMB regulars who were speaking out and protesting the abuses while many of your regulars continued to toe the line and went along with the flow even though they knew things were very rotten in the heart of Scientology. And just so we’re clear on this, I am including myself in the latter category. It was reading the personal stories of those brave few who posted on ESMB and other sites, that convinced me that I had to leave and helped me to find the courage to GTFO.
You are entitled to have your own opinions Marty and I respect what you have achieved here. But I won’t stand by and see you unjustly malign a group that has helped so many people escape the evil embrace of the cult. You aren’t the only one who is doing something about it and just because we don’t always agree with you, doesn’t make us all wrong.
Axiom142
I used to have to do DA cycles on public persons who had read some of the critical books. OSA gave me a DA pack that was bout 8″ thick but I don’t remember anything about APA/AMA funding.
Is there a back story on this?
I could be wrong, but I don’t think OTVIII was knocking Gene for some nefarious reason. It sounded more like “why didn’t he speak up about the mystery surrounding the departure”. For the vast majority of Scientologists, whether in or out, it still an incident full of out-points and contrary facts. In such circumstances dub-in goes wild. I hope Sarge can provide the definitive account and set the record straight.
Great story. One thing I always noticed about LRH. He was always thankful to the people around him. He would make an effort to show some gratitude. Simple, but makes such a difference . This from my limited knowledge of the man and the subject, am I right ?
DM does not do this in the least.
Sarge I just realized what Alex might have been referring to was the CST vaults near Petrolia though I could be wrong.
We also had something we facetiously called “the bunker” back at AO that was an underground facility for all the confidential back folders which was just behind Bridge and later became the CLO.
Sid, believe me, I have read all sides of Ron Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology. I know all the little salacious details. I know all about OT III, all about the various Space Opera stuff, all about Snow White – Hell, I was at the Pac base when it was raided by the FBI. Turned my life upside down.
I have read everything you have. Some of it I know is true. Much of it I know from personal experience is false. I can ascribe all sorts of reasons why someone would want to supply false information about Scientology, but motives, while sometimes alarming, are not important. What is important is that there is a lot of very false information out there. There is also a lot of damning true information out there. This crew knows all about it.
Here, you have the opportunity to actually interact with Scientologists who have been involved for a long, long time, and have seen more dirt on this subject than almost anyone existing. And yet, we are still involved. You may want to ask yourself, “why?”
Do not assume you are telling us something we don’t already know when you try to enlighten us about the death of Hubbard, say, or his personal life, or Nibs, or the death of Quentin. We know all this stuff.
We all have something over most critics of the subject: We actually know the subject. That makes a big difference. We have endured because we know the subject. We have endured despite the craziness. Again, you may want to ask yourself, “why?”.
If you want to bitch and moan about how mean and rotten Ron was, there are a multitude of places you can do it. We don’t do it here, because we already heard it all, and it is boring.
Great story, Sarge! I would have loved to have met and worked with the Old Man.
Sarge, if I may,
You’re a bit demure. Actually you’re a hero. You gave and give comfort above and beyond the call of duty. Your reference to ‘Forrest Gump’ however refers back to the actor, himself.
His acceptance speech should or could be your own.
Thank you for everything you have done and continue to do. You’ve made and make the world a better place. Sincerely, thanks!
Tom Gallagher
I agree. Dr. Denk was a kind, compassionate and competent
doctor. And Marty has exercised much more magnanimity
toward this character “OT VIII” than he had any obligation
to.
Sinar,
Probably the 138 Hwy then, was just on it today. Starts off the I-15 goes through Wrightwood, and Phelan, eventually gets to Palmdale.
I enjoyed the story Sarge, looking forward to many more to come. BTW, this if the first time I read about Pat Broker making a DM-style threat, “Don’t blow or I’ll track you down and kill you”. Please keep this sort of commentary up as those in the SO at the time need to get a better understanding of this guy (Broker). Perhaps he would have been as corrupt as DM if he had been left in charge. BTW, do you know if LRH really gave the Brokers the ranks of “Loyal Officer”? DM always maintained that this Flag Order was a forgery.
I can help but enjoy LRH’s sense of humor – “who do I look like? – Colonel Sanders”. LOL, I had thought the same thing myself. BTW, what did you cook for LRH that night – fried chicken? I’d love to hear more true stories, especially regarding his meals. I heard he was a tough person to please and was very specific about how things were supposed to be prepared (I actually heard he didn’t like pepper on his eggs, for instance).
Sarge,
Thank you for sharing another story with us. I have always considered LRH to be my closest friend through all the work he has done. To have awareness and knowledge of such a person has been a complete joy for me. To realize 30 years later that he was cut off from his staff and the general Scientology public by a manipulating tyrant waiting to take over the church. Well, I have had some upset on this, to say the least.
Being able to hear stories about someone I care about, confirming my own reality on who he was and knowing that there were also many friends in his life that made HIM happy too takes away some of the sting.
DM has been exposed and is history. I’d much rather celebrate the love and life of a wonderful man through the individual moments he had with others.
Thank you for this moment.
You’re doing a great job Sarge, and I can’t wait for the next one. Thank you again.
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Awesome! Thanks for the story. I think I remember Mookie.
Agreed, RJ. He was a complete professional, totally on purpose, and to boot a very nice man. Reminded me of the doc, Moonlight Graham, from Field of Dreams, who came within five minutes of an at-bat in the majors when he was a young man, but never regretted his course in life. “Son, if I’d only gotten to be a doctor for five minutes… now that would have been a tragedy. “
@AB: you are referring to the CST Preservation Project vault at Petrolia, CA. — far, far removed from Creston in both space and time (over a decade later, IIRC).
Michael A. Hobson
You are reasonable, in the Data Series sense.
Yes, you can read some of it in Garrison’s Playing Dirty; or you can wait for my book. Garrison’s account has some accuracy. The problem with it though is that it reads like Freedumb magazine (everything stated in propaganda language) because the entire purpose of the book was to defend the GO people who went to jail. A travesty for the story to be spoiled in that context. Why you don’t see it in church DA packs might be because Miscavige is a proponent of drugs, sold out to Eli Lilly, and might be the biggest hypochondriac I ever knew.
Re-read my post. I wasn’t even talking about you, unless of course you all really have become a cult and you instinctively take every criticism to a select segment of the group as against you personally. Jeez, OSA could use a few more good soldiers like that. Oh, yeah, several of those who are black PRing LRH on the natter boards ARE IN FACT OSA already.
Ken is a fine gentleman. But, he did not leave in the early 70’s of his own accord. He was kicked out in the early 80’s.
I must ask: Does anyone else here get a wicked vibe about DM and the death of LRH?
So beautifully expressed, these are my sentiments also!!
Barney, Thats the road. Hugs the mountains. Been a long time and I was guessing.
I used to get birthday cards and holidays from LRH. He always made me feel appreciated, understood, acknowledged and VISIBLE! There is nothing more beautiful than being perceived and understood… well, second to perceiving and understanding others and Life that is.
Sarge, gentle powerful being! SARRGEE !!! I can hear him now 🙂 THANK YOU Sarge.
Ken gives his recounting of the events, from his point of view, here. (For the record, he was kicked out in the early 80s after announcing his intention to leave prior to that.)
Here is a link to his interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX4XXAc4oqU&feature=player_embedded
It’s called Alien Warrior (in the US). Has a bunch of tech in it. It’s very very B movie…..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088695/
Hilarious.
Though our VIII’s not very reasonable.
Methinks our Eight’s really Henry VIII
High five on dat one GH baby!!!! 🙂
Sid,
Metaqual is right on with this statement. Not only were there IRS agents waiting at Charlotte, but probably DEA and others. Who knows what might have been planted on the ship if it had actually come in . There were some VERY nasty rumors deliberately being spread that jeopardized LRH, the Apollo, and its ports-of-call.
Thanks to some folks and a lot of urgent communication, there was a change of plans at the last minute and the ship did not dock, leaving some very disappointed agents and their handlers, no doubt.
Sid, what you and other non-Scientologists are missing is the experience of personal case gain that comes with good auditing. It isn’t about belief and factual knowledge – you can’t just read it and get it. It’s a phenomena – like having a brick lifted off your head that you didn’t know was there – but more spiritual. Or, like living in a cave all your life, turning a corner, and suddenly, for the first time, you see green grass and sunlight sparkle on a lake. That’s why we love LRH – because he gave us tools we could use to have such revelations and change the way we look at our lives and what is around us.
Thank you, metaqual, for the memories…
Leonore
Thanks! I’ll dig it out from my bookshelf.
It’s in there someplace.
I’ve been called worse! 🙂
Larry,
Could you imagine the confusion that would have reigned if Ron showed up at the local KFC looking like the Colonel?
🙂
Thank you Marty – this bears repeating — OSA really does black PR on LRH. I wonder how they worked it all out to be the “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics”?
Sarge,
Thank you for the delightful story!!! Brings smiles. Please do share more! These anecdotes connect us to our original postulates and reasons we dedicated years.
Leonore
Someone should collect all the positive stories. Even Hana Eltringham Whitfield used to tell positive stories before she turned hostile. Probably the main reason she turned hostile was when she routed out (she was very friendly during this period as I interviewed her on a lost tech matter and she glowed enthusiastic and positive over LRH when she had no reason to….I was not doing an ethics interview) and they declared to her to have an excessive Freeloader Debt. I dug up a Flag Order written by LRH that said Sea Org members had no debt if they were in exchange. It was from about 1968. I started circulating the info and the FO soon disappeared from mimeo, a high crime. Then the new policies about freeloaders came out, modifying the debts but not for people who had done advanced training. This is not what the original FO said. Hana was screwed out of being a Scientologist, from another angle than the Mission Holders were.
Grasshopper-
A very thoughtful reply.
As one of the “non-Scientologists” I think I would add that what I react to are the 100% moon-eyed, fawning, glowing – pick your adjective – responses firsthand descriptions of the “Old Man” uniformly receive here. For all the dirt people like you have claimed to witness, I never hear any of the Independents bring up anything about LRH’s dirt. Yet the documented record is full of it. Such an uncritical look at the topic doesn’t make Independents appear any different from DMbots who can’t see what is right before their eyes.
Don’t get me wrong: the more firsthand stories the better; I enjoy them (and in fact take them at face value) and it helps me understand LRH’s appeal better. Pointing out some of the obvious issues takes nothing away from Sarge’s, or anyone’s, story. It’s natural in a discussion of diverse viewpoints.
And as to the AMA and the APA spending hundreds of millions for anything related to Scientology, it simply defies all reason by a couple orders of magnitude. Dianetics/Scientology’s significance as a movement pretty much peaked in the 50’s-70’s and went downhill from there (as opposed to peaking in book sales, i.e. late 90’s). Talking about these supposed enemies like that doesn’t add to the credibility of the Independents’ case.
Thank you Marty!
Personally I think “OTVIII” is one of Yaude’s new handles.
Dr. Denk was a great guy and a great doctor. Thanks to everyone else who acked him too.
KB, simply and eloquently stated. I share your sentiments completely.
Per Ken’s Blog
“1982-83 Became increasingly unhappy with how the Scn group had changed from the group I had happily joined; I had to leave what I couldn’t give loyalty or support to. Just as I was leaving quietly, the new C of S management, RTC, threw me out noisily and nastily. One of their senior executives spat in my face.”
You are correct that his actual departure date from the SO was in the early ’80s. During that time period, if you chose to leave local management made sure to “throw you out”. Evidently the group has a bit of a “group service facsimile” on the “make wrong” of someone choosing to leave willfully of his own accord. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I am not seeking your approval, obviously.
The only thing that comes to mind was the Ol’man’s requiem back in ’86 when the crowd at the Palladium was obviously in shock and grief over the loss and Miscavige seemed to display no empathy whatsoever.
Steve,
Thanks for validating my knowingness. On Highway 138. You shall take this a call to come back to So. Cal, eh?
I can sleep tight tonight.
Brendan, thanks for your response. Look at it this way: There were lots of people who enjoyed working with Ron, felt his praise as well as his wrath.
Some people did not appreciate his humor – anyone who takes R2-45 seriously is squarely in that camp. Anyone who takes is little comment on a tape about being the “Prince of Darkness” is too scared to exist, really. Anyone who thinks Ron was crazy because he hooked up meter electrodes to tomatoes just does not get it. And, of course, those people will have issues with Ron. Fine. I have people in my life who think I’m the devil, too, and will tell a very convincing story.
Whether by ignorance or by design, there were a number of state agencies in several countries that were trying to ban Scientology. It was banned in the UK in the 60’s – despite Saint Hill being right there. The church was raided for selling vitamins, for “claiming he e-meter cured disease,” by the F’ing FDA, for God sake. The FDA did not raid all those Baptist churches that laid hands on people – no, they had to get the weird “cult.” My dad had to lie to authorities to get into the UK to do a course there. That’s what defies all reason. Even with all the crap that the current Church leadership is doing, the subject itself should not be banned, the leadership should be jailed.
You realize the the heart of the subject is two people sitting across a table and talking to each other, right? No electric shock. No drugs. No coercion when done standardly (which is one of our beefs with the current set of fakers). Just two people, being there and communicating.
So, yes, you will see nice stories about a complicated genius. Yes, I said it. Genius. (And complicated, for that matter! :-).
But I will tell you this: no one is telling nice, light stories about how great it was to work with David Miscavige.
Brendon~What then would be your purpose for being here?
Sarge, you can copy and paste the heart right back. 🙂
Sarge~I just love hearing the stories from your viewpoint – besides, who else’s viewpoint are you supposed to have? 😉 The horse’s? LoL I do want to hear more of them too, by the way, but I’ll be patient (my weakest virtue).
If the proposition that the AMA spent millions looking to discredit Scientology and LRH defies your reason, all it tells me is that you have not done your homework concerning the AMA and your “reason” is not very well informed.
I suggest you start with a book titled “The Serpent on the Staff: The UnhealthyPolitics of the American Medical Association”, published in 1994 by 2 award-winning medical reporters from the Chicago Sun-Times.
Among what you will learn is that the AMA has throughout it’s history attempted to block anything it saw as possible competition; for example, the AMA spent decades, and lots of money, trying to eliminate the practice of chiropractic nationwide.
Can you imagine? They felt threatened by chiropracters! Eventually, the AMA was sued in Federal court and lost. Among the charges that stuck, was that the AMA indulged in “anti-competitive practices”. The fact is, the AMA exists for the purpose of furthering the economic interests of MDs, and has always pre-emptively struck at anyone who even talked about offering any kind of better health by any means. And the first step is “research”, in order to create ‘dead agent’ packs against the potential competition, to present to their members and most importantly, to legislators
MDs are not the “top dogs” they are in established medicine because they have more to offer in the way of healing skills and knowledge, but because of their political acumen in keeping others – like nurses, psychologists, socialworkers, osteopaths, naturopathic healers, traditional Chinese doctors etc. – down.
Beyond that, people like you and Alanzo are completely missing the point about why many of us visit this blog.
“We” are not trying to build a case. That’s not why we’re here in this thread. And I personally could care less whether you think “we” have case. (Although if you are an attorney, and you happen to think we have a case of some kind, then perhaps you are welcome to offer your services in some capacity.)
In the meantime, I suggest your time might be well spent reading through this thread and others, and seeing if you can understand why most of us are here and why we visit often.
Later downstream in this thread, I will post a comment to Alanzo about this, and if you haven’t figured it out by then, you can read the answer there.
Yes, Petrolia, I forgot all about it until Sarge’s story made me think about the rural nature of where we put that vault. Thanks for refreshing my memory.
Sincerely,
AB
Axiomguy, I have to say I read Marty’s comment as referring to the 3 people Al named – Mystic, Dart Smohen, and Alan Walter, as the people with “big self-importance buttons”.
Al did not mention that others of a more positive slant post there too. Even Karen deLac has introduced herself there.
Alan Walter is no longer with us, but for some reason Al chose to reference 2 of the biggest LRH denigrators on ESMB. Strikes me as really pissing in the soup, especially in this thread which was all about Sarge’s story, which many of us have been waiting and hoping for, for quite a while.
It not only seems like a Grinchy and inappropriate thing to do, but seems like an ad hom or “dead agenting” of ESMB by Al, to mention just those 2 as somehow representative of ESMB. How do you feel, being associated with Mystic, for example?
Talk about big-time 3rd party action. But no doubt Al will get love-bombed by some of his cronies over there, for successfully widening the rift between various groups of exes.
What a tool he now seems! Major footnuke by Al, just to curry some favor from those he thinks of as ESMB’s “opinion leaders”! Which they are not.
Thank you so much for this story Sarge. It means a lot to hear it from you who was there with him – thank you for helping the old man in so many ways. After reading DMSMH in 1987 I knew I had just met a friend. I asked my Book One Auditor if she might know what he is doing these days, when she said he had passed a year prior I couldn´t stop tears rolling down my face. My auditors TRs and saying “he is very much with us in a spirit” helped me to get over that loss. I got busy and joined staff to give back for that friendship. Would likely still be there if it wasn´t for …
It is totally absurd to compare Phil Spickler to Mystic or Smohen from ESMB, if that’s what you’re doing, CD.
Oh please. Gene Denk was LRH’s personal doctor. He had a duty of care to him, and isn’t going to breach confidentiality because some people are curious about LRH’s final days.
Similarly, the lady down the street just got taken by ambulance to hospital. Maybe I’ll ring up her doctor and get the scoop.
Alanzo,
At risk of repeating some of what I posted above to Axiom142, which you should also read, this one’s for you.
I think you completely miss the point of why we are here, reading Sarge’s story about LRH and other posts. We are here to enjoy the ambience, the friendliness of reminiscence, the pleasure of hearing something good about LRH for a change.
The tabloid scandal-focused gossipy style of “reporting” negative information about LRH is all over the Internet. There are clambake type sites galore, almost totally one-sided. Anybody can see that. And spin and slant that’s put on it aside, some of the negative information may well be true. Some may well be false, as well.
So you tell us, Al, where do we go when we want to hear some honest positive, feel-good stories about LRH from someone who actually knew him?
What if we’re not in the mood for (yet another) “shocking documentary expose of LRH”.
What if we want to hear some stories about his good
side? (Assuming you even believe he had one. I believe he did, myself. It is evident in much of his writing and his
lectures).
So tell us, Alanzo-tulpa, where do we go to hear the good things about LRH?
You can cry “censorship” or “information control” all you want, but if you find yourself being rejected on a blog like this one, or getting banned, it is really because you are either one really socially retarded dude, or a mercenary with an agenda that just does not fit with this community.
You remind me of a realtor-neighbor of mine, who always attends the neighborhood Memorial Day picnic, but we all know he’s there to prospect for people who want to buy or sell a house, not because he likes our company and wants to kick back, enjoy some good eats, maybe chat and maybe just be a bit contemplative.
At least he has the good sense not to talk about American soldiers in terms of how many atrocities they may have committed before they died.
He has an agenda, in other words. And so do you, but your agenda is not the same as ours. You’re trawling(prospecting) for recruits for your club(cult?) here, and it doesn’t fit. It’s not what we’re here for. We’re here for stories we like and pleasant company.
So when you come along and piss in Sarge’s soup, what kind of reception do you expect? If it’s motivators you’re looking for, hell, I can give you plenty of those!
But for now, I’ll continue to try to be helpful, and just suggest you get a book by Miss Manners and read it cover-to-cover and try to socialize yourself.
Thanks Sarge! Love the stories, please keep them coming.
BTW, I seem to be missing a chapter. I searched the site but can’t find it. The last Sarge story I found had LRH not looking well at the end of the Cine period, and this would be c. mid to late 78; this newest story picks up in 83. Did I miss something?
Thanks so much for sharing this history.
“Hundreds” of millions. That was the claim. And it is ridiculous.
Prozac dreams…
Tara and Sid –
I’m here because I’m interested in the topic and have been since the 60’s.
I don’t think LRH was being 100% serious with the R2-45 comment, but I don’t think he was 100% joking either (I don’t cite it as a Scientology process if that helps). On the other hand, on another critic’s fave, I do read the cancellation of Fair Game as cancelling the term only.
I know what auditing is. I’ve known auditors.
I am aware of the FDA raids — and the bad behavior of the GO in Snow White and what they did to Paulette Cooper. I’m also aware of the COS’s RMGROUP attempt of a.r.s. I’m here, in part, because when those were happening the “independents” did nothing. I’m happy to see you stepping up. Finally.
I believe Scientology was not entirely blameless with bringing the raids on as the organization has constantly tried to obtain the benefit of being a science when it thought it to its benefit and a religion when that worked better (the latter has worked better).
I agree 100% with the idea that “the subject itself should not be banned, the leadership should be jailed.”
Ron hooking up a plant to a meter was Ron being Ron: he saw himself a scientist. But of course he had a science fiction writer’s sense of science (which Kurt Vonnegut once pointed out about science fiction writers, was not much).
In my opinion Ron was a genius in this respect. He was a genius in observing human behavior and relating it to others in a systematic way.
Just a few rambling thoughts. Gotta run and, this now being an old thread, it’s hard to know if anyone ever reads the comments in the old threads!
I do wish you, and the independent movement, well.
oops, should have addressed that to Tara and Grasshopper.
That is it!
Thanks!
There are many subtle Scientology type interjections in this movie.
(For example: A CCH objectives type “handshake”.)
GH, another in a long line of great posts from you. Thoughtful, articulate responses to the critics (of the tech) are so valuable.
Thanks, and keep them coming.
Lenore, when I read through the comments, I like to acknowledge the ones that communicate most clearly why, to paraphrase Grasshopper above, those of us who actually KNOW the subject are still here, still just as dedicated to LRH and the tools he gave us as when we had our first wins, if not even more so.
Your next to last paragraph that includes “It isn’t about belief and factual knowledge – you can’t just read it and get it” – is perfectly stated, from start to finish.
BEAUTIFUL story, Kirsi!
Naysayers, LRH-bashers, riddle me this:
When was the last time you read about someone crying when they found out the author of a book they’d just read had recently died – someone they had never met (and probably had never heard of until they came across his book)?
Thanks, lovely short story…
any more?
Actually hundreds of millions is a conservative estimate.
Chump change.
The AMA has expended billions on trying to shut down alternative health care and monopolize the “industry” with the help of Pharmaceutical interests.
Maybe you should actually look beyond the PR and maybe read something other than the AMA’s own press releases.
Sarge,
You and your stories are so dear and lovely. I enjoyed very much this story you’ve shared you and January and LRH as a southern colonel and your first evening at Creston together.
Here with thanks are all the hearts you could hope for, which you can enjoy and then share with others:
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Just Me
Brendon,
Howard Walinsky and Tom Brune, the authors of the book I cited above, devote an entire chapter to delineating the the AMA’s deep pockets and how it has used the money it collects and spends, for political action to protect it’s own interests and expand it’s influence and monopoly on health care.
For example, in 1949 alone, it spent $1,500,000 to fight President Truman’s attempt to pass a government run health care system. (Yes, some presidents have tried to institute health care reform long since – the AMA alsways led the charge against it.) Over 3 1/2 years, the AMA spent $5,000,000 on that effort. That would be more than $30,000,000 in today’s dollars, on that one campaign, between 1949 and 1953.
I don’t know where Marty got his figure, and I don’t know how accurate it is, but it is documented that the AMA spends tens of millions of dollars on such matters. Over a period of say, 20 years, it adds up to a lot of moolah anyway you look at it. Doctors are, and have been for quite some time, the richest profession in the USA.
Read the book. “The Serpent on the Staff: The Unhealthy Politics of the American Medical Association”, published in 1994, by Howard Wolinsky and Tom Brune.
Brendon~Thanks.
RJ~Exactly. And let’s add in advertising dollars to the figure…cha-ching!
Kirsi~Me too! Same thing, same dates, same, same, same. 🙂
RJ-
I’m very happy to look behind the PR. How about you providing me with a source of factual information behind the claim that the AMA/APA has spent “hundreds of millions” to discredit LRH?
I contend that won’t happen because a) it doesn’t exist, and/or b) Marty won’t publish this request.
Or maybe we just have to wait for Marty’s book.
One of the great paradoxes of Scientology is that it only claims to make the able more able. It doesn’t claim to cure anything (the FDA had it wrong, right?), and a true nut job would be an illegal PC.
So how is that competition for the AMA/APA?
The other side of the coin is the argument that the AMA/APA are financially aligned with the interests of the pharmaceutical companies in essentially “creating” diseases and syndromes. I think this argument has considerable merit (I can’t tell you how many problems I never used to have that I now have — and surprise, someone has a pill to sell me to fix it! My favorite is “restless leg syndrome.”)
But that really has nothing to do with Scientology (save for the COS’s general opposition to unecessary drugs, psyche drugs, etc.) As an alternative to medicine or psychiatry, Scientology has simply never been anywhere significant or large enough to register as a competitive threat.
Valkov-
I think your note and my reply just above got approved in the same round. The modern version of “crossing in the mail.” I’m not ignoring you.
Mostly I’m trying to bring the scale of whatever the AMA/APA’s concern with Scientology might have been (if any) into some semblance of reality.
“Tens of millions on such matters” is a generality. The amount of that pointed at Scientology and LRH…?
If the book is in my library I’ll check it out.
Regards,
Brendon
Nomnom said:-
“I used to have to do DA cycles on public persons who had read some of the critical books. OSA gave me a DA pack that was bout 8″ thick but I don’t remember anything about APA/AMA funding.
Is there a back story on this?”
Phil Spickler has just done another interview, and gives an overview
of AMA and APA reactions to Dn/Scn. No documents or such. I have
seen one or two on the net occasionally.
Phil also gives some fascinating and lucid analysis of some fifties
tech including a ” Help clear”.
http://freezone-tech.info/
It has everything to do with Scientology. When you’ve read Garrison’s book you can keep commenting on this. Until then you are blabbering about something of which you know not.
Brendon:-
“For all the dirt people like you have claimed to witness, I never hear any of the Independents bring up anything about LRH’s dirt.”
Not really true. The independents in general are not into criticising
LRH as a mainstream part of their activity. I’ll just quote two examples that I think are important. You may have seen the first interview with Phil Spickler, and he bursts into tears at the loss of his group, and the wrong directions LRH took and the loss of his friends including … ….LRH. Phil worked with LRH in the founding church in the fifties and loved LRH. Some of his archived posts on the Ivy forum, best accessed on Alt Clearing technology, are sometimes
much more caustic on the path taken by COS when LRH was where the buck stops.
Ken Urquhart worked directly with LRH for a decade, and loved him. But on his blog he gives a similar view to Phils, that LRH took a wrong path. Both of these estimable beings still use LRH tech and audit. I feel truly priviledged to have met them.
This area reminds me of part of the conversation when I met Marty in London. He asked what was my relationship to LRH. I said I didn’t have one, I had a relationship to the tech.
LRH? I’ll quote the final lines of the Movie ” A touch of evil”
directed and starring Orson Welles, and Marlene Deitritch, and she said ” He was some kind of a man.”
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1063401631293
I don’t think he would have been recognized as such. {LOL}.
On the other had, this is a sad thing, because LRH is the source of all the Tech. He wrote it. There is no more qualified OT in the universe at this time than him. There won’t be. His research continues beyond what was accomplished here on Earth.
But, for LRH to say, and he did say in writing, that any being fully trained in Scientology Tech {ethics, tech, admin} “could walk through a battlefield unscathed” and “have not possible enemies”.
And then he ran into hiding from simple IRS documents that he may have owed taxes?
That part sticks in my mind.
Its been bandied around that LRH said the best way to make money is to start a religion. Being the story teller, humorous raconteur he was I think it likely he did say this. I know someone on the net, and a real life friend of a close friend who testifies he said that at a sci-fi convention. Wouldn’t suprise me. But all this was I believe later than events recorded below by an expert Dianeticist, name forgotten, and was on Arnie Lerma’s website, [ or one of them?] read the complete comments recently.
This is a far more likely reason that LRH started a Church.
—————-
“Now, I must backtrack a bit. “Our” HDA was a Medicolegal Expert for
the State of California; Marshall Trout, PhD, MD, ScD, LID. A
brilliant man, a fine legal and medical scholar; he had been a
Superior Court Judge at one point, and preferred to be referred to as
“Judge Trout,” rather than “Doctor Trout.” His opinion of the Medical profession was not high. Scientology can really be blamed on him. One afternoon, while in conference with Hubbard, he being one of the two or three people for whom Ron had any real respect, he told Ron as follows; “If you in Dianetics go on curing Asthma and Arthritis and Bursitis and Cancer and Diabetes and all the other psychosomatic ills to which Humans fall prey, the AMA is going to come down on you for practicing medicine without a license, and we’ll all end up in jail;
the only way you’ll be safe is to make a Religion out of it! Also, the
primary, stated goal of the Religion can be Spiritual Healing, but not
Physical Healing; that can come as a result of your “Worship
Sessions,” but cannot be a stated purpose. Look into incorporating as
a Religion.” The rest, as they say, is History.”
brendon,
Who ” claim(ed) that the AMA/APA has spent “hundreds of millions” to discredit LRH?”
Other than you.
What you wrote is such an archetypical example of creating a strawman that it should serve as its epitome.
Now if you want actual numbers I suggest you research the activities of the AMA’s own “Investigations” Division starting with their campaign against what they call “quacks” (based on their use of quick silver in remedies) even though it was the medical profession itself who started using mercury as an antiseptic (anyone ever hear of ‘Mercurochrome’? ) and in some cases as an analgesic as you can see in this Standard Medical Dictionary:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_3kpAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA889&lpg=RA1-PA889&dq=mercury+analgesic+used&source=bl&ots=xaLJEp6abK&sig=Hx4QmKGc5-FwA02M-aBElN2bV1I&hl=en&ei=jWrHTIO1FIWisQObhqm-DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=mercury%20analgesic%20used&f=false
I mean how hypocritical is that?
Anyway all you have to do is study the arc of the AMA and their close budies the FDA (created after the Food and Drug Purity Act) to see that most of their money is spent trying to put any alternative system of healthcare out of business.
Also I don’t know how much money they spent on Scientology itself but I’m sure they intended the same fate for the Ol’man as Wilhelm Reich when they raided the DC org back in ’63.
Only problem was he was in England at the time.
Thank you, Publius.
My best wishes, and hope all is well for you.
Leonore
There is a lot of truth in Marty’s response to Alanzo.
Alanzo’s thinking is very reactive and fixed. I know from first hand experience. This is the same guy who once had a big argument with me on ESMB supporting electric shocking people.
This is what he said on ESMB after Marty’s response and his justification for posting here:
“Information Control is my main target: Information control on all flows. Break up the information control on all flows and any possibility of a cult, mind control, or any vestiges of brainwashing, are gone. Gone, Baby, Gone. Socrates said that. Not me. ”
This is the same ESMB who’s registration is now frozen and that has no tolerance for a pro LRH or Scientology viewpoint. If you express one, you will be gang attacked and eventually banned, as I was. ESMB has become a closed cult in its own sense.
His plea for no “information control” is a plea for the reactive mind to reign.
WHo are you quoting T?
Sounds like you’ve got a hidden standard.
Uh RJ-
You wrote:
“Who ” claim(ed) that the AMA/APA has spent “hundreds of millions” to discredit LRH?”
Other than you.”
In this very thread, Sid wrote:
“In turn I would like to link you to some on-line books written by authors who researched the lifetime of LRH in some detail. ”
To which Marty replied:
“The AMA and APA spent hundreds of millions for the “detailed” “research” you cited.”
If Marty’s quotes aren’t suggesting the research was biased and tainted, what was he trying to say?
And I’m sorry, I don’t see the connection between the AMA/APA being out to get LRH and Mercurochrome.
The issue here isn’t my straw man. It’s your non sequitor.
And a note to Marty: Omar Garrison? You mean the guy who the Church ended up paying off the publisher to NOT publish the bio he was hired by the Church to write about LRH? The guy who described the COS as a “cult” on 60 Minutes? You want me to believe HIM?
Oh come on Terril.
Its a bit more complicated than that.
http://www.aberree.com/v01/n01p01.html
Hmmm. Well, *something* about DM and the death of LRH just screams TREACHERY to me. Can’t quite put my finger on it…
Brendon, I don’t want you to believe anything.
Actually I personally think you have a very narrow perspective on the entire scene Larry.
He wasn’t “hiding from the IRS”.
Contrary to Miscavige’s innuendos to that effect given in his so called “Victory” speech.
There are bigger enemies to the cause of total freedom than a bunch of “tax cruds”.
They were merely a stalking horse.
As I wrote none of us stated that the AMA expended billions of dollars to stop Scientology alone but to stop alternative medicine and practices in general.
Also if you can’t see that accusing others of being “quacks” for using remedies that contain quick silver while incorporating such “remedies” themselves as part of “standard” practice as a blatant case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Then I don’t know what to do.
Other than issue a primer or draw a diagram for you.
By the way brandon do you sometimes suddenly wake up at 3 am to laugh at the punch line of a joke someone told you several days earlier?
Dr. Denk passed away years ago, so he will definitely not be breaching any of Ron Hubbard’s confidences ever.
Michael A. Hobson
@eddieVroom: if you can produce any evidence that David Miscavige had any slightest involvement in the death of Ron Hubbard, then kindly present it or quit the bullshit speculation. By the time Ron Hubbard relocated to Creston, McSavage was no longer trusted by Hubbard and he was never allowed anywhere near the place.
All the available evidence says Ron Hubbard died of a stroke (“vascular accident of the brain”) – the last in series over the previous 10 years or so. Are you suggesting that McSavage found a way to induce a fatal stroke, remotely ?
Ron Hubbard was not murdered.
Michael A. Hobson
Atcause,
ESMB’s registration may be frozen because Emma wanted to retire from running it and was looking for how to do so. She has found a new Admin, and will continue in the background maintaining the dedicated server and tech support for the forum. I think she will also do some posting, now that she is free of her Admin role. I’m guessing registrations will be re-opening.
In some respects, Atcause, I must disagree with your viewpoint on ESMB. ESMB has been likened to a “City”. This is very apt. It is not a little homogenous village; in a city dwell all kinds. A city has many different neighborhoods. Some you do not want to go into at night; some you want to get out of as fast as you can, if you don’t fit in. Some have comfortable coffeehouses where you don’t mind at all visiting for awhile and chatting with the people there. ESMB is like a city.
It is also true that it has been dominated to some extent by “antis”. This is natural, since there has not been an outspoken “pro” community until now, and after all, allthose peopleleft scientology for a reason, or a myriad of individual reasons. But they all left because it wasn’t working out. Some of the bitterest-sounding “critics” of LRH admit they still use some of the tech.
At this point, demonizing ESMB is counter productive. To avoid ESMB is like the Co$ staff hiding from Anon protestors. You put yourself at effect and the negative posters at cause over you, if you runaway from them.
There is a clique within ESMB who perhaps think of themselves as “THE opinion leaders of ESMB”. These are the few. They are the “big man on campus” types, legends in their own minds. They are also the ones Alanzo tries to curry favor with. He is like a young kid trying to impress the older “hoods” with “Watch me! I’m gonna run in there and throw a thought grenade in among them! Watch me do it! I’m cool enough to hang with you guys, huh? huh? huh?”
Emma herself started a thread introducing Karen#1 toESMB, and made it known she expected all to treat Karen in a seemly manner.
This has become a very long thread. My point is Emma has always set a high standard of conduct of posters towards each other. Everyone is free to express their own opinion anddisagree with others. But there are limits and rules, as there must be in any civilized society. But free speech rules.
I am trying to say that the culture of ESMB is basically founded on very positive principles of free speech.To the extent it has an anti scn or anti LRH flavor, is that there are not enough pro posters there, and because a few strongly critical antis have been dominant. It’s not that easy to get banned from ESMB. A person has to engage in some extremely unseemly disputes with others there, to get banned. Terril posts there regularly, catches the same flak from the same few posters regularly, and goes on posting.
My point is, on ESMB, barking dogs are allowed to bark, cats fight loudly at times, but there are many extremely intelligent people there. Many have done a lot of Bridge, and a lot of training.
It’s an interesting place, but don’t go there unless you have a strong stomach, a high confront for disagreeable (to you)opinions, a good ability to state your position, and high ARC = Understanding of others. And make sure you understand the rules there, as you would anywhere else.
A word about Alanzo. Without prejudice, let me say this. I have interacted with Al a lot on Geir’s (now Claire’s) forum over the past year. I have a back ground in psychiatry/psychology, and more than 8 months ago, I began to believe that Al had received ECT at some point in his life, possibly after his break with the Co$.
ECT typically produces personality changes that exactly correspond with the 2 Atcause mentioned – fixidity and reactivity, or rote responses on some topics.
Unfortunately, it is also true that some people experience a relief from suffering when they receive ECT, and feel that ECT helped them in a way nothing else did. Thus they will defend it. There are “ECT survivors” organizations, like “The Committe for Truth in Psychiatry”. (Google for it, please). This is not allied with CCHR, and one must be an “ECT survivor” to be a member. These people have testified before Congress. Their beef with psychiatry is not that ECT is bad, but that psychiatry has failed to fully disclosed the “other effects” of ECT – like the memory loss and personality changes, and impairments of mental functioning that occur all too often. It is as a result of this group in particular, that psychiatry has been forced to do a lot more disclosure of the risks, require a waiver to be read and signed, and in most states, do away with involuntary administration of ECT.
My point here is, many of these “survivors” still say ECT “helped” them by providing a relief from their suffering, usually a serious overwhelming depression, when all other means available to them had failed. Thus they will defend ECT and insist that it be available to those who really want it.
As for Al, I of course don’t know, it is an inference on my part. The way he acts is consistent with what I have speculated, and it is no way intended to denigrate or diminish him, or make him look bad. If it is as Ithink, more power to him, that he has survived.
It is speculation based on what I have gathered about the after effects of ECT on a person. He is an intelligent and at times likeable person. Unfortunately, he also has a fixed agenda I suspect he is powerless to deal with.
If I am wrong, and he really is acting completely on his own determinism, then let’s lynch him and get it over with, or just take him to the Humane Society and….. 🙂
OK, for the literal-minded out there, please do not take my joke and spin it that I am promoting euthanasia. It is a joke that Al, knowing me, The Feral White Russian from Manchuria, I think would understand as a joke.
If you do take it literally and post such calumny about me, I will send the Russian Mafia after you…. 🙂
If you are asking me if I think LRH was murdered the answer is no.
Do you really think LRH would allow himself to murdered?
Now come on. I may have a narrow viewpoint at times but there is no dartboard hanging around my neck.
Marty:
I hope I don’t.
I just don’t think LRH was murdered or committted suicide over and IRS problem.
I wished he had come forward and just straightened out the IRS for the world in front of everybody.
But no, instead, he put DM to the place to get it done for everybody, and look at the way it turned out.
Most of the people I like that I thought were still in the church and my heroes, are commenting on this blog above and below my own typing.
And yes. I see what you mean. I know about the other enemies to Mankind’s total freedom, such as, for example:
DM’s New standard for floating needles.
I understand. Now that’s it. Before I run away.
I’m afraid this article is in effect only signed with initials,
and its where I took the quote from.
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/rxxx.htm
Someone who was around in these early days could easily identify this person from what has been written. Maybe someone on this blog can.
Clearly wherever the idea of designating Scn a religion came from
it was an excellent strategy, enabling auditors to audit without licencing, psychological training, and attacks from the AMA. For
me its perfectly valid to consider scientology a religion, and I do.
OSAbot chimes in. Does this scare DM?…
Now if DM was “on the outs” with LRH, and knowing what we know of his personality, does that make him:
a.) more likely a suspect.
b.) less likely a suspect.
…and what does “allowed” have to do with anything where Crimes are concerned?
And now, ladies and gentlemen, a parable:
“His first overt act began in Dayton the following Saturday. He was in Norton’s Emporium, a glorified 5 & 10 ¢ store, when he saw the sign:
NO SALESPERSON
MAY LEAVE THE FLOOR
WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION
OF A SUPERIOR.
THE MGT.
What! he thought, are the poor girls supposed to pee in their panties if they can’t find a superior? Years of school came back to him (“Please, may I leave the room, sir?”) and rituals which had appeared nonsensical suddenly made sense in a sinister way. They were trying to reduce us all to predictable units, robots. Hah!…The following Wednesday, the Midget was back at Norton’s and hiding in a coffee urn when the staff left and locked up. A few moments later, the sign was down and a subtly different one was in its place:
NO SALESPERSON
MAY LEAVE THE FLOOR
OR GO TO THE DOOR
WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION
OF A SUPERIOR.
THE MGT.
He came back several times in the next few weeks, and the sign remained. It was as he suspected: in a rigid hierarchy, nobody questions orders that seem to come from above, and those at the very top are so isolated from the actual work situation that they never see what is going on below. It was the chains of communication, not the means of production, that determined a social process.. Nothing signed “THE MGT.” would ever be challenged; the Midget could always pass himself off as the Management.”
http://www.rawilson.com/illuminatus.html
And another thing: There was, to the best of my recollection, only an incomplete and rushed autopsy. Somebody seemed to be in a damn hot rush to dump the old man in the drink…
@eddieVroom : you are calling me an “OSAbot” ?
So, having no proper response to my comment, you go directly to ad hominem. Why am I not surprised ?
Michael A. Hobson
here it is in scribd form.
He is like a young kid trying to impress the older “hoods” with “Watch me! I’m gonna run in there and throw a thought grenade in among them! Watch me do it! I’m cool enough to hang with you guys, huh? huh? huh?”
I agree. I think that’s just what Alonzo and others from ESMB do from time to time. They know that Marty and the Independents are in the front seat driving the reformation and that they are in the back seat, and it pisses them off.
Larry,
Where did I suggest or imply that the Ol’man was murdered?
Also he never put Miscavige in charge.
I suggest you read the HCOPL 6 Jan 66 ‘LRH Relationships to Orgs’.
Also the subsequent PL of 8 May 73 entitled ‘Founder’.
The only reason Miscavige is there is because of a power push.
Anyone who thinks that Ron would have set up a dictatorial leadership of some kind to replace him.
Obviously hasn’t read Policy.
Hey CD,
I’m not only a dinosaur but a retired one. All I could find in this
URL was promotional material for scribd. Which is also an unknown word but just googled them. You did a bad key hit, or am I at least as
computer ignorant as I think I am?
Well, Marty sure seems to have you pegged:
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/miscaviges-people-cant-lie-straight-in-bed/#comment-71351
Learn to read, Dumbass.
Marty wrote:
“You [addressing me] just outted an OSAbot [OT VIII, whom I had just caught in a contradiction]. Thank you and well done.”
Fuck Off and Die, please.
Michael A. Hobson
Probably a semantics problem. Mike, you don’t need to chop his head off.
@Marty: OK, but I’m hardly an “OSAbot” and this fellow owes me an apology. Fortunately for him, this is not the late 1800’s.
Also note, he still hasn’t produced any evidence that Ron Hubbard was murdered.
Michael A. Hobson
@eddieVroom: It is entirely Out of Sequence to try to pin a crime on someone, before it has been demonstrated any crime has factually occurred.
What you are doing is no different than the brand of “justice” displayed at any CoM right now: decide someone is guilty, then select only those available facts that support (or alter them until they do support) the predetermined conclusion.
Why do you have a problem with the notion that a 76 year old man with a history of strokes died of a final, fatal one? Human bodies do that pretty routinely, you know.
Michael A. Hobson
The Coroner’s full report is available online at the following URL (Hubbard death reports). No sign of any physical trauma or abuse of any kind. Symptoms reported (by Dr. Denk) consistent with a stroke. Blood toxicology report showing only trace levels of Vistaril, an antihistamine (allergy suppressant) with sedative properties . No other drugs or toxic substances.
Besides all that, we have at least one person (Steve “Sarge” Pfauth) on this blog who was present at Creston Ranch when Hubbard passed away. He has already told us David Miscavige never allowed near the place, so Miscavige never had any opportunity even if he did have motive. You haven’t even stated what means was used to commit this alleged murder (which would have to be consistent with the Coroner’s Report).
I dislike McSavage as much as anyone, but accusing him of non-existent crimes he could not possibly have committed only damages the credibility of the Independent and Freezone communities. There are plenty of real, provable crimes this cat actually has done or ordered done, so we have no need to go making them up.
Michael A. Hobson
It appears Alonzo doesn’t mind expressing his views on fora he doesn’t control. My opinion is that it is a sign of intellectual health for one to allow himself to post and exchange ideas and views on fora which are not under one’s control. This means one trust his ideas and views to speak for themselves, while censorship and ad hom are an implied admission of poor confidence in one’s own ideas or views.
martyrathbun09: “His plea for no “information control” is a plea for the reactive mind to reign.”
Do you realize that is an argument David Miscavige can also put forth as a rationale to control information for the “benefit” of Church of Scientology good-standing members?
VALKOV said:-
“A word about Alanzo. Without prejudice, let me say this. I have interacted with Al a lot on Geir’s (now Claire’s) forum over the past year. I have a back ground in psychiatry/psychology, and more than 8 months ago, I began to believe that Al had received ECT at some point in his life, possibly after his break with the Co$.”
This is ad hominem, and really ridiculous.
Marty its not a good reflection on yourself to allow a post like this here. Seeing as you are selective and all. So Alanzo has pushed your buttons, or limits, whatever. He spent x [7?] number of years as staff. In a rotten church. And left. A certain amount of respect is due I’d say. Minimally not allowing such false attacks.
Alanzo has been supportive of the independent/FZ area on occasion.
Don’t really have any axe to grind in this area, family members are psychologists and estimable people, but allowing an ad hominem
from a psychiatric/psychology viewpoint is probably not the message you wish to promote.
MARTY in response to Alanzo:-
” His plea for no “information control” is a plea for the reactive mind to reign.”
I’m inclined to think you misposted. Done such lots sadly.
Seems like an inval of study tech for starters.
Terril, that is why I say some of you cats are just plain squirrel. You ought to have learned on objectives that uncontrolled information IS your reactive bank.
Situation noted: Extreme Reasonableness.
Recommended cram: Retread the Data Series, and clay demo reasonableness.
R, what he is describing as constituting “information control” is a plea for R6 to reign. I offer the bulk of his communication on this blog as exhibit A. I know for a fact you don’t let guys come into your home and denigrate, backstab, and enturbulate you daily. I don’t think I should be held to a different standard.
And what is Alonzo producing? I find free-for-all, 1.1 attempts to undermine – with zero give and take – suppressive.
martyrathbun09 | October 30, 2010 at 1:21 am | Reply
“Terril, that is why I say some of you cats are just plain squirrel. You ought to have learned on objectives that uncontrolled information IS your reactive bank.”
MARTY
” His plea for no “information control” is a plea for the reactive mind to reign.”
Clearly, and as I thought there is miscommunication here.
Uncontrolled info[ from the bank, or perhaps whatever] is not the same thing as controlling info, eg censorship banning etc.
I did objectives on the old and good HQS course. Then on both the HSDC and NED course. Read it, drilled it, was drilled on it, audited it, was audited on it on all of these.
” You cats are just plain squirrel”?
Thats just swearing. 🙂
Read the success stories I post, most easily seen on the FZ success stories on ESMB. very few if any could be regarded as “squirrel”.
I personally am very liberal.
Thanks for responding. 🙂
I’m a fan. 🙂
Terril, I am posting on blog policies in the not so distant future. I treat comm here like I do in life. If some guy starts roughing people up I don’t generally stand for it. If you read a lot of the comments here, you’d know I allow a wide variety of viewpoints and ideas. When someone demonstrates they are here for some other purpose than to move on up a little higher and they clearly intend for others not to do so themselves, then they can go somewhere else to achieve their goals and purposes.
I totally agree Marty.
Marty, your doing a great job.
I think that before someone can truly criticize LRH or Scientology tech, they have to provide a better alternative at the same time. They are always telling you that this is bad and that is bad but they never provide any solutions themselves to what ills man. They say LRH did this and LRH did that, what did they ever do to save mankind?
One more thing, Marty do you want a real laugh? You know, a real knee smacker. One of the biggest posting nut balls on ESMB ( Zinj ) actually believes that the reason you don’t post on ESMB is because they don’t “gush” affinity or admiration to you enough. You know, they aren’t “gushers”. 🙂
Can you actually believe that they think that’s the reason you don’t waste your time in that degraded 1.5/1.1 sewer?
martyrathbun09 | October 30, 2010 at 1:26 am | Reply
“Situation noted: Extreme Reasonableness.
Recommended cram: Retread the Data Series, and clay demo reasonableness.”
Cool! I say go for it. 🙂
More seriously:-
Comments that me and mine are squirrel, really?
You asked me for techies and I connected you to Trey Lotz and
Ken Urquhart. The latter I believe you were already connected to.
There are many more outside COS who are highly trained that I’m
connected to. I’m really happy you reach people I can’t.
I don’t deliver auditing. Its hard to thus be a ” squirrel”
I’m really good as a word clearer.
The FZ and independents are really aligned.
Whether you like it or not.
🙂
bb
bb, it is not who you know, it is how you walk the walk.
RJ:
DM’s Policy is “Power is assumed” and NOT “The handling of power can be enhanced by doing the FEBC”.
Larry,
This is Machiavellian tech (TM) and has nothing to do with policy.
Miscavige probably studied ‘The Prince’ instead of the OEC/FEBC.
That is if he can study anything.
MARTY
“bb, it is not who you know, it is how you walk the walk.”
“Terril, that is why I say some of you cats are just plain squirrel.”
You were of course addressing those I know as well as myself.
The walk I walk is promoting standard tech most places I can in the teeth of often very hostile reception. Just google my name and you will see a hint of this. Its been a very successfull action resulting in an average over 10 years of roughly 20-25 people a month asking for an auditor or joining the three FZ forums I promote.
I walk my walk. It may not be exactly the same as your walk.
I started on the net as a critic after reading the horrendous stories
connected to COS on the net. One way they were horrendous is that they gave an awful perspective of the tech. I fairly soon started promoting tech in a very general way with no techies to really send people to. Then a guy, Tommy Thompson, started a freezone forum
and many scientologists on the net joined, and I started promoting this forum even before I became a member. Tommy was in fact
fair gamed by COS, one assumes under yours and Mikes watch. I
have no issues re that and don’t feel any need to forgive or anything.
Far as I’m concerned you’ve both redeemed yourselves and will
continue to do so.
You of course are also being a critic of the CO$ and IMO doing it better than anyone. More power to your elbow. 🙂
Me squirrel? To some eyes I guess I am. I don’t like KSW 1, but approve of the intense resolve to train people to get results. Its a really difficult area to handle, and I consider scn is by far the most effective method in this area.
I also approve of the efforts of some of our best and brightest to
advance the tech.
I actually wrote an admin scale on this for the FZ whereby research
of higher bridge levels was in goals or purposes.
Note that “OT” and for me in particular ” Cleared theta clear’
has not been achieved. I’ve surveyed the most highly trained, and furthest up the bridge on …” to handle mest objects without mechanical means” [ from Tech. Dict Def cleared theta clear] and there are only sporadic, and mainly uncontrollable, unrepeatable results.
I’ll mention Rolf Dane class VIII here who is not in hiding,
he has tried to refine methods of handling GPMs. LRH failed here.
Mostly. Apparently L’s does do something in this area. Apparently not controllable or repeatable.
Rolf used Effort processing, repeater tech, and creative processing
to handle this area. I confess I was audited by him via skype, and
found it really interesting but was not ” my item” it seems. Others have had great wins.
Note that it was Dan Koon who suggesting he incorporate effort
processing.
Is such research squirrel?
I’ve communicated with and met many of the most highly trained. Heard things that may relegate them to squirreldom in some eyes
from many. Not naming names.
” Have you ever been or still are a Squirrel” 🙂
I have no problem you referring to me as a squirrel. I have
confessed. 🙂 But please don’t tar with this brush those I know.
Its detrimental to a wonderful crowd of people.
Here I’ll set you up with someone you may use this swear word against, Mary Franklin formerly Maren, who with her husband delivers both NOTs and Rons org EXCAL. Both class VIII with LRH.
As a side note this gorgeous Class VIII is well over 60 years old.
Compare with those still in COS. 🙂
Really Marty your use of the word squirrel is quite inappropriate.
Its a not is attempt, a swear word.
Scientologists want to save humanity. That they want to discover tech that helps better is not a crime. Those trying are very well versed in tech.
Thanks for the opportunity to give a rant here.
Hope you allow it. 🙂
As my man Jason says, “whatev.”
Alanzo is just another invalidator from that Anti-Scientology Troll-infested Nest called ESMB. I wouldn’t be here much longer either if this Board were also overrun by this decrepit Lot.
It’s true that pro-LRH and pro-Scientology stories receive heavy condemnation on ESMB. In general, that’s what I’ve seen. Maybe that makes it a cult, but I don’t view it that way. I feel I understand the reason why such ESMB posters write what they do. They have personal experiences which differ from yours.
A few years ago, I was afraid to simply speak publicly about my experience with Scientology, good and bad. Fear. Afraid to just speak plainly. This was awful.
I see LRH as a man with many sides. He wrote the policies threatening me with an SP declare for communicating with the press or certain other people, such as I’m doing here. And he wrote the Way to Happiness, urging me to judge for myself.
I’m grateful to be where I am now. I’m grateful to the folks at ESMB, who made me feel at home. I’m happy to see you, Marty, communicating publicly. I’m happy to hear the full range of stories about LRH. They all make the puzzle fit together.
So, being able to call each other “cults” is way better than where we used to be, all stuck in a single cult, unable to speak freely at all on the subject. So, keep it up. This will work out.
Mac Stevens