Corporate Scientology and Corporate Internet Interests

Over the past two years the corporate church has spent millions of dollars on the internet combatting the Truth Rundown.   They have gone so far as to register dozens of domain names using my full name and created a number of sites and blogs with them attempting to divert traffic from this blog.  They have bought huge amounts of internet advertising with CNN, St Pete Times, and a number of other major media.  They have paid Google to place pop up ads for their childish propaganda when someone googles my name.

Coincidentally Google refuses to list my blog in it is news updates under the subject of Scientology. They list a number of blogs and sites that have a small fraction of the traffic Moving On Up A Little Higher has. Sites that do not post news, unrefuted, unchallenged and in many cases news that despite the corporate church’s best efforts goes viral, as routinely occurs here.

I didn’t intend to make an issue out of this because despite these monied interests’ efforts to quiet us, visitor stats just keep climbing.   But I decided to take a broader issue up after Geir Isene wrote to me recently. Geir informed me how he was exiled from Facebook by the intelligence and PR efforts of the corporate church.  You can read Geir’s account at the following link:

A few months ago a number of non-Scientology blogs, and news services broke the news that corporate Scientology, along with a number of other major greed-driven corporations, was using Facebook for intelligence gathering for commercial purposes.  You can read about that at the following link.

I am opening up the discussion on any corporate internet abuses you all may know of.  While at this stage I am only noting outpoints, I wonder whether or not behind them is some large-scale bullshit that is going on in terms of controlling the net in ways to suppress freedom of speech and information. 

Anybody have information to share along this line?

83 responses to “Corporate Scientology and Corporate Internet Interests

  1. On this one. Your doubts are valid.

  2. Google was accused Wednesday of effectively removing from the Internet a Web site that is critical of the Church of Scientology after it deleted links to some of the site’s pages from its search engine.
    The popular search company said it removed the links after it received a copyright-infringement complaint from the Church of Scientology. Andreas Heldal-Lund, Webmaster of the site, said in a Usenet posting that the complaint demanded that Google take down a large number of references to different parts of
    “The complaint mentions a ridiculous list of addresses, which successfully removes the whole site from their engine,” he said.
    Read more:

    One thing I have noticed is that Norton is placing a grey question mark beside all such sites as (I find that URL to be particularly endearing).

  3. Marty,

    This very procedure of using the internet to gain tactical advantage to supress and defeat others, was forcasted, among other things, in a book called The Sovereign Individual (James Dale Davidson/Willam Reese-Mogg). The book even mentioned the Church of Scientology BY NAME, as an example, when it outlined how newer technology could give smaller entities larger powers on par with larger budgeted government operations of years past.

    Now we see the forecast coming true as the corporate entity known as the C of S is using the internet in league with others with similar intereests to join in a symbiotic relationship to gain control and maintain a position against what it senses as a threat to its very existence. And, ironically, we see that your use of the same technology, i.e., this blog, is just as capable of doing battle with even larger entities as the great equalizer, technology itself, levels the playing field.

    I would recommend you read the book. I did, and it was like an OT level. It expands the mind and gives one a viewpoint on which you can assess the tools of the new age and what their use and implementations among the cultures on earth mean for us all, both as large groups and individuals competing with larger groups. Be warned, the book is very highbrow, but not impenitrable. There are words in that book that I never knew existed. A good dictionary is a must if you are to get through it. The best versions are the early versions, before 2000.

    My guess is that you will perhaps agree that you are not as vulnerable as people may think to the larger corporate interests that may align with the corporate monster version of the Scientology organization. In fact, I think your past experience in management and your knowledge of your enemy together with even the most modest use of internet technology, such as this blog, will be a formidable force. More formidable than most will perhaps see.

    Well done on your observations. You certianly do pay attention to your internet presense. Very commendable.


  4. Marty,

    I highly respect Geir Isene…he is a facebook friend and I know how advanced he is with computers


    If you Google
    LOCKED OUT OF FACEBOOK, you will get almost 8 million hits in.111 seconds. It happens every second, every millimeter of a second and that is that.

    +++++I have high end clients locked out of Facebook from all walks of life and different countries.

    ++++++I have friends who never heard the word “Scientology” have their FACEBOOK account cancelled over and over and over again.

    +++++ FACEBOOK has a problem.

    I have more to say on this very good post of yours on Corporate Internet Interests ~~
    but just wanted to give a wider view of FACEBOOK. It can happen to anyone.

    Here’s an interesting write up~~

  5. martyrathbun09

    Centurion, Great post. I’ll read it. Thanks.

  6. Karen:

    Scientologists in the church are well known and documented voluminous complainers.

    While I was in Scientology, the church staff pushed my buttons so bad, that I encouraged myself to go out-ethics and acquire some overts, but the sole purpose of the Scientologists was to show up on the scene and “apprehend me” “in front of everyone”.

    When I had a Facebook account, for example, 2 NY FDN Scientologists named Marcel and Lucille Femine, blocked me, unblocked me, sent me messages that they were going to warn other Scientologists on Facebook to block me, write me up to RTC, a whole list of things.

    People like this FREQUENTLY complain to Facebook, who to keep face unjustly cancels people’s accounts or blocks them. It is a given.

  7. The Venus Project has the same problem. One website that has the movies on them was taken off Google search. It took me a while to get that it was off.

    It means you and the Venus Project are impinging.

  8. It is the Scientology way to make it know to others:

    “Who is welcome and who is not”.

  9. Well Marty,

    Its not just a bunch of greedy guts corps and the Church of Scientology or do I repeat myself that is gathering intel on Facebook but intel organizations as well which is why I never use it.

    Google itself was started by a bunch of ex-spooks which is why Daniel Brandt doesn’t care to much for them:

    Anyway there’s another search engine that is pretty secure from suits and spooks:

  10. Dear Marty:
    David Miscavige, OSA operatives, and others who do not want the truth revealed will do anything to have sites like yours,, arnaldo lerma, ESMB, Geir Isene, Gerry Armstrong, and many other sites out of the view of any one.
    I must tell you that it is not working. People are leaving and reading the sites. It is simply not working for DM, and I know he hates sites that are telling the truth.:-)

  11. Sounds very familiar indeed.


  12. I think we must remember that the “internet” is a generality. The server network that provides this “free” communication line around the planet is controlled just as carefully and thoroughly as the mainstream news media, which is owned by a tiny handful of people. These people have financial, political and philosophical vested interests which serve their own agendas. That agenda does not include freedom, justice, sanity or theta.

    Let us now deceive ourselves by thinking that anything on planet Earth is “free”. As LRH say in the lecture, “The Free Being”, there are no more free beings. We’ve all been trapped. Earth is a prison planet. And, only the application on Standard Tech applied to each other can change this condition.

    For the moment we can still do this. However, like LRH himself, we will be fought, persecuted, vilified and undermined by those who choose NOT to recover our native abilities and freedom to act.

  13. Maria:

    In DM’s castle, as far as I know, if the truth is an upsetting or disturbing or disrupting affair to you, then you are OK in his book.

    But, if the truth is something you can live with happily ever after to make your own and other’s lives go right, in DM’s book that is treason that he does not a get a cut of the fame.

    This is evidenced by these hairstyles of his that he appears coiffured with in public, and the way just the other day I heard him giving a speech and he was pacing back and forth during the speech in front of the podium, but the words were coming out MONOTONE perfectly pronounced in front of the audience.

    Somebody, in the art department at INT must be creating double size cue cards so he read so clearly moving back and forth like that. It was obvious something was bothering him and I know it is his conscience. He has failed as leader of the church.

  14. Lawrence,

    I hear you. Yes.
    It is simply my opinion that if Geir’s FACEBOOK was a target, he would have been removed AGAIN just like that.

    He was able to be up and running again on Facebook almost immediately with a HUGE amount of friends and not a blip more problem.

    It is only my opinion, but I do not see that as an Ops.

    b> What did it accomplish ? He was back up and running with more friends than ever in no time at all.

    This is only my opinion. I am willing to be wrong. I do not have to right. And I respect Geir greatly.

  15. Theo Sismanides

    Yes, Karen #1 is right, and I guess we all know that about FB.

    Recently, here in Greece, a person who had created a Group in FB called Union of Greek Citizens, which amounted to about 1.600 friends sent a link to them about ex-Prime Minister of Greece, Andreas Papandreou, (who is dead now and was the father of the current Prime Minister George Papandreou), showing documents about how the late Andreas had taken money from Rockefeller to establish the Social Party called PAK.

    The FB leader sent the message to all 1.600 friends and the next couple of hours his account was deleted.

    As we are getting more data on this we can see that there is a well controlled mechanism by the Global Enslavers monitoring FB to suppress free speech and support their Special Interests, which IMHO include Corporate Scientology for a long time now.

    So there is a need for a new, free Facebook, I don’t know how it could be named, but imagine it could be made in such way as everybody could communicate freely on politics, religion etc. And be a Social Network, too following the principles of FB.

    I have secured FREEDOMBOOK.NET today. I keep that for the INDEPENDENTS in case someone who knows can build a site similar to FACEBOOK and we can start a new social network free from censorship.

    Imagine there was a Facebook For Free Speech. As a matter of fact FB was created for students to communicate with each other. Such a network for free speech would cover the needs of those on the net who would want to communicate without censorship.

    In any case a NEW FREE FB is needed. One that will cover the needs of those who are deleted from the monitored FB.

    I offer to the Indies, so we can build our own free speech site.

  16. With all due respect they were attacking Anonymous before there was a Truth Rundown.

  17. Mordern-Shaman


    Let me tell some thing very bluntly – a truth is not merely an agreement but a pro-survival-collective- experience , Scientology in its current state is no more then a CULT.

    If we look back history all CULTs died from a movement with in it self , and that movement is preceded by DOUBT.

    If you are dealing with a CULT or some thing which has taken form of a CULT , only way you may give them a BLOW is by giving its followers a DOUBT about its “prophecies”

    Let me be honest, we were all ready for an apocalypse in year 2000, arrangements were made, bunkers were ready and all the key staff members were moved to safe locations or have an access to these locations in no time.What happened, nothing happened — a DOUBT created. What happened in this decade was the replica of the DOUBT in response to the “truth” we all had since 50’s — the annihilation of human kind.

    You , mike, myself and your bloggers are result of this DOUBT, the time goes by we had more DOUBTS.DOUBT is inversely proportional to BELIEFS – the basis of CULTS

    Forget, you cannot defeat or even compete with Corporate Scientology with their strength “financial power” which they acquire by putting their staff members and wealthy parishioners under constant duress and blackmail.

    If we want to save the technology “Scientology” as it was given to us by LRH , then we have to get rid of current corrupt management. Focus on providing the ACTUAL fact to those to whom they rely on their survival like: wealth parishioners, sea org members, IRS and MEDIA.

    Think , plan and act upon to provide ACTUAL fact about the current practices to these stake holders. You did a remarkable job for sea org members and MEDIA. The number of vetran sea org members left the Church were much higher then ever before and its going up week by week. The MEDIA coverage provided under your’s and Mike leadership is phenomenal. Now lets focus on next two stake holders , the wealth parishioners and IRS.

    Now its time to go to the web sites of IRS and Corporate America and let the know about the ills of current management. Write , even ananomously, to IRS tell the ratio of monetary and non-monetary activities of the Church and ask them why it is granted a TAX exempt status.

    Write to the web sites of these wealthy and influential Scientologist and ask simple questions like Do they have those “spiritual” gains are promised by the Church when signed for the bridge and how much do they feel themselves obliged due to “private” information they shared with the Church.I have already written to a famous Scientology couple.
    Here is some tip;
    1. For IRS you will find web page for giving information ananomously.
    2. For Corporate sector like Google, face book ,Amazon, Metropolitan Corporations, Police, FBI, Hospitials , Universities , other churches write or email to the head of these institutions.
    3.For wealth Scientologist, go their web sites and send email to them and if email address is not given them simply write info@the web address or webmaster@ the web address. Do not forget to mark attention on the subject column.

    Do it and see the results with in few months. DOUBT, DOUBT and DOUBT will bring more people outside the fence.

  18. Merely a question as I do not want to state this as a proof of anything but your post made me wonder:

    About 2 days after I had donated to the Free Daniel Fund created by Marty my PayPal account was set to “limited access” which makes it impossible to send money from that account. The notification came with a series of steps to take to verify my account has not been accessed by an unauthorized person which I all did and which have been confirmed as correctly taken. Yet, for nearly a month now my account is still set to “limited access” and I cannot use it.

    Question: Did this happen to anyone else too?

  19. Marty,

    Documentary video maker/radio talk show host Alex Jones, websites and other websites has similar complaints about google and youtube. His documentaries are well researched and well sourced but very controversial, dealing with such topics as evidence that 9-11, the OKC bombing, and the London bombing in July of 2005 were all staged inside jobs. When one of his videos is about to go viral they mess with the stats to prevent that. Nevertheless, truth has a way of getting out these days.

    You may consult with some of the staff of infowars/the Alex Jones show to compare notes. Furthermore, you may get an interview on the topic. Alex would probably not be interested in any religious angle, but would DEFINITELY be interested in this sort of manipulation of the web.


  20. CoS and other firms appear to be “data mining” social media in order to use a technique called “narrow casting” or “narrow focusing” in its advertising. These techniques are used to maximize the return on investment in advertising. One of the central problems CoS faces as we approach 2011 is this: How does it recruit new members given its horrible reputation? CoS has a lot of empty Idle Orgs it cannot fill. It has digital printing plants and CD manufacturing lines that it has to capacitize. Former CoS members have said repeatedly that CoS has been cannibalizing its publics and their AP monies in order to sell product and meet stats.

    This cannibalization and crush regging will eventually end because AP is finite as are publics. Therefore, the job for any CoS PR firm would be to create the profile of a person who would be attracted to Scientology. Developing the profile would require that Scientology find the “buttons” that would cause people to respond to CoS banner ads. Once the buttons were identified, data mining allows CoS to narrow cast, to literally put its ads on the home pages of particular individuals on social websites such as Facebook.

    As a mental exercise, we can ask what kind of person would join the Church of Scientology in 2011 and become a new Scientologist? The profile can be developed by using these criteria:

    * They must have a neutral attitude about Scientology. This requires that they be basically uninformed or even ignorant about what CoS is and does. Anyone who knows the actual facts about CoS and DM would never want to be in CoS. This means CoS is looking for isolated, uninformed people.

    * A person must have a ruin that CoS can exploit. Thus data mining would use keyword searches on Facebook pages. Keywords such as loneliness, communication problems, shyness, anxiety, guilt, and other “ruins” would allow CoS to park ads on the homepages of its target victims.

    * Tools such as free personality tests, free stress tests, or inexpensive books would be offered to target victims. These tools would make CoS appear to be a friendly, ideal, helpful group. In other words, it false advertising because CoS never tells new people what they are really in for once their first sessions begin. Already, the video cameras are taping everything for possible future use against that person.

    In the ever-shrinking world of David Miscavige, up is down, black is white, and failure is success. Even with aggressive, targeted data mining, I don’t see how CoS ever solves its most fundamental problem: CoS has a horrible reputation that it earned over six decades of sleazy, illegal, brutal, mafia-like behavior. While individual Scientologists can be good people, CoS as a group has been inexcusably vicious and dishonest. The public knows it.

    Who would become a Scientologist in 2011? That is CoS’ main problem to answer and I don’t think CoS has an answer.



    LRH said “When in Doubt….communicate.” From the Corporate Scn response to open and free communication, it becomes pretty apparent that their condition is lower than that.

  22. First off, Marty, Facebook is crazy. I do have a Facebook profile, and I have come close to deleting it several times, as Facebook has always violated my ideas of privacy.

    When you look at Facebook on the nice and light, airy-fairy side, it is really great to have a medium that lets you connect to people, find people you hadn’t seen or heard of since childhood, etc. But with that comes the corporate abuses you very rightly note.

    By default, your “likes” are public. Your list of friends are public. You home town, school, all that stuff, are public, and you have to work to cut that off and only share that with friends, or no one.

    So, if you are an enterprising person you can find some interesting stuff. For example. I just signed up to Face Book at “George Hopper.” They would not let me sign up as “Grass Hopper” – violated one of their rules. I followed Gier Isene’s link to his profile. Without knowing Geir at all, I can click on “View Gier Isene’s Friends” and see ALL his Facebook friends. I know he is friends with Amy Scobee, Andreas Heldal-Lund, Bent Corydon, Chuck Beatty, Claire Hedley… All 400 people.
    I randomly click on Chuck’s profile. I can see all his 281 friends – and guess what, Chuck and Gier are both friends with Amy and Bent and Andreas. Hmmm,
    Dig further.
    I see that Chuck is also friends with Ken Urquhart, who is also friends with Amy. Amy has a lot of friends! Some are connected to “Anon” people, some others to ex-SO. To make a long story short, I can see a good chunk of the Indy crew on Facebook, and all their connections, likes, etc. Some people had their “Wall” open to the public, so I could see some conversations. I even saw that one person was friends with a good friend of mine that I have known since 1976.

    And – this is from a new profile with 0 friends. In other words, this information is PUBLIC.

    So, to your point, Marty. I do not consider a company, or the Church, for that matter, downloading a “torrent” of publicly available data for mining and marketing, or whatever. The data is public. It is perfectly okay to mine public information.

    People will post the most amazing things in a public forum. For example – random search for “drunk” in twitter reveals the following: “I’m drunk and the night is young” and “Wheb [sic] did I become drunk.” How about “laid?”: “Made 78 bucks in tips. And got laid. Paid. And laid. (No relation to each other.) That’s what I call a good night.”

    If I were running a consumer brand, I would be remiss if I was NOT mining this information. You have relationships, ages, likes and dislikes, people tell you their brand preferences, their political preferences (even if they don’t specifically say what they are in their profile – you can figure it out from their friends and likes). And, all the data was volunteered. Now, I will say that very few people consider the magnitude of this, and I am sure that in their heads they may be thinking that “public” means that only their friends will want to see it, so who cares?

    It is not the information from one specific person that matters, really, it is the relationship of all of it together. For example, some Indies don’t publicize their friend list publicly, but their friends do – guess what? Now they know you because they know your friends. The size of a group, and salient interests come to light by looking at all the data. Data mining is pretty interesting stuff.

    That is the risk of Facebook.

    Now, can Facebook shut off your profile? Sure they can, for any reason, really. Here is the main sentence from their Terms of Service on “Termination:” “If you violate the letter or spirit of this Statement, or otherwise create risk or possible legal exposure for us, we can stop providing all or part of Facebook to you.” Pretty clear. Piss off anyone, really, and if they complain to Facebook, Facebook runs scared. Pantywaists.

    They are a company, not a charity, and the service is “free”. The only cost is your information.

    As far as Google goes, they are a curse and a blessing. Mostly a blessing for now, in my opinion, but they have a LOT of information on EVERYTHING. But, they are pretty good about not interfering with communications.

    Anyway – there is a lot to this, Marty. The Internet is, in a way, a lot like Scientology. Can be very useful in the right hands, and very damaging in the wrong hands.

  23. Hi Marty,
    The internet is becoming an international concern because it’s new and easily misused. The EU Commissioner on Digital affairs called last month on Dutch tv for ideas to curb its liabilities. Her name is Neelie Kroes, (in)famous for fining Microsoft over half a billion dollar for illegal sale and price arrangements. She urged viewers to send in proposals and ensured us that good ideas will be looked into. If feasible reform proposals come from this blog I’ll forward them.

  24. I know second hand (from a co worker) following:
    Mrs. X working at accounting as supervisor (american company operating in germany). She had been already mobbed. But then she had been called in by Human Resources for an interview. They layed out her activity on the net (facebook, graphics design on her hompage) and mentioned how she can have time and energy left for the company?
    She gave up and looked for another job.
    Another type sample:
    I sometimes visit relatives in US. And surfing the net. Especially some download pages that can be found in US are blocked here in germany.
    (it is told that they do not even block child sex pages. But I know for shure they block IPs from us download pages.) Cause of this now since some month find those US TV series like “the event” or others on rapidshare and germany accessible link info pages as those us based sites cannot be accessed from germany. (not encourage anyone to do illegal things but just to note the facts on the net)

  25. Another sample regarding free flow of information:
    The recent BBC documentary from John Sweeney I wanted to look at the stream from the BBC server. I had been not allowed to do that cause of being in the wrong country. At first glance looks like some copyright thing. But does BBC want to sell the documentary on blue ray in germany?

  26. From the UK’s “Daily Mail”…
    Google finally admits that its Street View cars DID take emails and passwords from computers

    On many occasions, Google has been known to “reset” the view counters of online documentaries. This has happened with some of the 9/11 Truth films and some of Alex Jones’s InfoWars films.

    The Corporatocracy is so pervasive that many people are blind to it.

  27. Here’s a great way of doing search while sidestepping Google’s privacy issues:

  28. Now getting your site linked from this blog is starting to resemble the good ol’ Slashdotting 🙂

    It’s a testament to the traffic gathered by you Marty. Nice 🙂

  29. Oh, good grief, RJ! Google was NOT “started by a bunch of ex-spooks.” The data you offer for this assertion in the junk schematic at is laughable.

    “Intelligence” does not derive from noticing connections, but from understanding them. I’ve got primary and secondary connections to half the people on that screen, and I’m neither a spook nor evil nor working to destroy Scientology philosophy and practices. You might, actually, acquaint yourself with the concept of competing hypotheses. It’s a technique some use for not jumping to foregone conclusions.

    I know I will regret asking this, but what in the world does “Segway Scooter” have to do with “Big Brother”? No, wait. Don’t answer that.

    (Sorry, all, for going off-topic and sudden.)

    Just Me

  30. This — Grasshopper’s analysis of Facebook — is quite correct, IMO. The more I learn about FB (and I know a lot), the more I despise it.

    I’m very good at anticipating trends (it’s part of my job), and one of my anticipations is that privacy is becoming very, very valuable. The good news is that when things become valuable, others figure out ways to maximize and deliver on that value. It’s called business.

    Everything, including Facebook, has its day. Social media is evolving rapidly. Products more responsive to the emerging need for privacy will appear.

    Just Me

  31. Yeah… well… as a person who has been “online” since 1990 it’s easy to see that the Internet poses a very real problem to a vast array of interests. The RTC is a flyspeck in comparison. Whether they did or didn’t (as you suggest) “spend millions” matters little. This stuff has been going on for close to 20 years already and is hardly new.

    The RTC’s desire to control what is theirs is no different that any corporation’s desire to control their marks. Casting all corporate entities as shadowy, nefarious or evil is a stretch. Corporations aren’t good or bad in the same way that a knife isn’t good or bad. People either use them properly or they use them improperly and therein lies the struggle that being waged right now…. with Scientology just one of tens of thousands of legal entities desirous of survival. The real 800 pound gorilla isn’t a podunk religion that gets mean when one of their button men goes off the reservation… it’s governments who are assembling an all-out attack on the free flow of information via the internet. Listen closely to what this guy from the UN is saying:

    Any entity capable of communication will eventually desire to control how their communication is rendered when it leaves their direct control. You may do that in a limited manner as a blog owner by either not allowing words you don’t like on your blog or restricting communication access… like you did with your other blog. The looming war is going to be fought on whether or not entire nations will have access to information and communication that isn’t “approved” by governments. And corporate interests will play second fiddle to the needs and wants of governments who desire their audience be a captive one.

    As to the RTC buying up domains with Rathbun in them… meh. That’s a tactic that goes back nearly 20 years as well. Lots of lawsuits have been filed over the legality of such assaults and though people names like Marty Rathbun can’t be inherently owned by a person named Marty Rathbun unless a Marty Rathbun actually bought that domain – corporate names and identities usually win out when they discover that some enterprising person bought the domain “honda” in anticipation of selling it to the real Honda for millions.

    My only comment on Facebook is that any half-intelligent adult who uses it with their real name deserves what they get.


  32. Here’s a brief interview with Webster Griffin Tarpley on Russia Today on the broad background of Google. This is part 2 of the broadcast. I’ll list part 1 with Alex Jones after this.

  33. Grashopper says wise words bringing knowlegde.

    One should see the Movie “The Social Network” And one can uderstand why the channers call it “Failbook”

  34. Marty,
    Reading the statements made by the Littles, Jim and Meshell, on their own site and on Jeff’s blog, and now reading this day’s piece here, it’s become increasingly obvious just how far wacked DM’s li’l operation is.

    I mean reaaaaaaally wacked, like to the point of just plain ludicrous absurdity.

    Take the OSA site that picked up after Minerva. I check this now and again, with time in between checkings for a fresh view, and it is plain goofy. To the point of a parody. This OSA site is ‘funny challenged’; knee-tards (reactive jerking); Miscavaloid Idiots. And in that they are so outpointy as to cry for rejection with a long laugh or a deep chortle. Not the serious effect they intend I’m sure.

    I’m trying to express here that at this point, it’s hard to take DM ‘seriously’.

    Now, I’m not trying to minimize the destruction or evil of the guy and his ilk/minions. I went through a personal hell myself sorting out this SP’s SPness. I’ve witnessed now numerous other personal hells gone through, the Little’s being the latest. Reading their blog and the long write-up they did, as I went through each point it just struck me – DM is a ridiculous thing. The only ‘validity’ he has is what others give him. When you step back and just look, he’s laughable. He’s no longer ‘valid’. His destruction inevitably backfires and goes right back home to roost whence it came.

    I suppose the hardest part is to separate his absurdity out from the guise of Scientology he puts on. Once done, he becomes increasingly less as to any adverse effect on one’s life and all sorts of gain is possible.

    That gain is evident on the smiling faces of those who are out of his MADhouse.

  35. No, this did not happen to us. g

  36. martyrathbun09

    Jim, so true. I’m going to post their story today. It tells quite a lot about the dead state of that organization. He has successfully gotten rid of anybody with a clue and replaced them ALL with non-Scientologist children.

  37. Yes! It happened to me too. Very Strange???

  38. martyrathbun09

    Samuel, a gentleman who reads but does not post wanted me to pass along the following to you. I am posting it because it might be applicable to others too. Here it is:
    Regarding Samuel’s comment about PayPal and did anyone else get an
    email requesting account verification after donating: No, I did not
    and I use PayPal quite a bit for not only Daniel’s defense but for
    eBay buying and an assortment of other things. On
    occasion, an email will come along that looks like it’s from
    PayPal but it’s really not. Rather than go through the “account
    verification” steps called for in the email, Samuel should contact
    PayPal directly (telephone works! you can actually talk to a real
    person) to verify the validity of the email first. Could you pls
    relay this information to Samuel?

  39. PR for C of $ is terrible. Why? Because people like Tommy Davis VIOLATE the PR series almost DAILY by FORWARDING THE ENEMY LINE! So, even when they try to misdirect, intelligent folks realize there’s something off when a CHURCH spews such venom on long term ex-upper management staff. My first reaction when I saw Marty’s videos on SP Times was, “Wow, he sounds convincing but he could be lying.” What convinced me was when Tommy Davis went completely nuts, practically spitting out pieces of his lungs as he reviled Marty. I knew right then and there, if the C of $ had nothing to hide, they would NEVER have so viciously attacked a long time upper management SO member. The only thing the C of $ is adept at is making themselves look like the goons they are. This is a church? What kind of a Church spews such hate? Most people can see the truth, it’s only the heavily indoctrinated ‘bots that will not see the light until THEY reach their breaking point. And that time is just around the corner, believe me.

    As Shakespeare said, “The lady (C of $) doth protest too much, methinks.” And the public sees it, too.

  40. Watching Eyes

    Good points. And while people are filing those complaints, if they decided to get a repayment/refund from the cult, they need to get their complaint on file with one of these two gov agencies. The press is aware that people have filed with these agencies. At some point in time, when the feds go looking they’ll see just how many people were scammed/conned/robbed.

    These are government agencies and WILL respond to you. Your complaint will not be ignored. You may get a letter back from one of the cult’s attys but who cares. The complaint stays on file.

    For the IAS here’s the one to use. It’s in CA.
    You can plug in their EIN number, just above the “search” button to get the exact name they go by. It’s very hard to find the name otherwise.
    Put the EIN number in your complaint.
    It’s 521840679
    This complaint has to be printed out & mailed via the US Mail.

    For Flag or the Ship this is the one in FL. It’s under the Attorney Gen’s office, Dept of Consumer Services, Bureau of MEDIATION & Enforcement.
    Under Consumer Complaint Form click on “online form”. With this one you can submit it online and attach any docs.
    Note: when you fill in this form, under each question, every time you add in another line of info it shrinks the print. By the time you’re done anyone reading it will need a magnifying glass. The best thing is to do is write on the form referring them to your attached complaint.
    Also, the form asks when you paid. If it’s a real old date, the form might not take it. Put today’s date and explain in your attachment.

    Go for it. If enough of these show up on their desks, the CofM risks an all out gov investigation. Remember, most of the people asking for repayment/refunds are NOT in their 20′s & 30′s. Most are 50 and older. Think “elder abuse”. Gov doesn’t like that.

  41. Lol Russia Today, is that like Pravda ?

  42. Thanks Marty and the gentleman.
    I will do what you have suggested.

  43. Ensifer – There is no problem with using Facebook with your real name as long as you understand the implications, and monitor it. The sad thing is that you really do have to work to keep your “personal brand” clean and relatively unsullied. It is work, and requires skill. The fact is that the CofM owns the names “Scientology,” etc., and so therefore they have the rights to it. It is not evil for Google or any other company to “respect” the TMs and copyrights. It is the legal thing to do, and the corporately responsible thing to do. Which is what makes Mr. David Miscavige’s usurpation of the subject even worse.

    I agree that the real threat is the government threat. They can regulate anything. There is debate of having an “Internet Kill Switch” which will shut down the Internet (supposedly) in the event of some sort of cyber-attack. This is absolutely the most stupid and crazy thing I have ever heard of. The whole architecture of the Internet was designed the way it was to survive a nuclear attack and the take-out of various key nodes. The Internet recovers by routing traffic around the burned-out holes. By having a kill-switch, the government has a way to kill the very thing that makes the Internet valuable. By having a kill switch, you give foreign powers and evil-doers a nice, juicy target to attack – the kill switch and mechanisms behind it.

    In addition, you have laws in each country that regulate content – “Hate speech,” “subversive speech,” etc. Germany has laws, France, the US, and of course China and Iran and the Arab states.

    But the drive and mantra “Information wants to be free” is really, really strong, and has the power of what we all want to do: Speak freely on any subject – to be there and communicate. Constant vigilance, a constant willingness to fight back – “freedom isn’t free.”

    I think for every company that tries to restrict communications for their own edification or gain, there are several others who push the other way. Governments are trickier, but if you look at the superset of countries – US, off-shore Caribbean, the Netherlands, Finland, and others – you can pretty much publish any content and it will get out. Wikileaks is a great example of that. Love them or hate them, they are an example of the power and freedom of the Internet.

    As much as I hate to see OT level material on the ‘net, it is much better to have that than to have a central information clearing-house and approval station. It is better (but not optimum) to have some copyright infringement than to have no copyright at all – and no publishing right at all.

  44. Sorry if this derails the thread somewhat but something just leapt off the computer screen and smacked me right between the eyes… some word-for-word quotes from survivors of the cruel and inhumane cult hazing:

    “I was in a lot of meetings where people were spanked or beaten. I was slapped in a public meeting…”

    “People were brought up front and asked … had to tell who they’d sneaked off to a restaurant with..”

    “There wasn’t a week went by when I wasn’t called up on the floor… because of my behavior, because of my attitude”

    “He would ask “What do you think I ought to do with them? Do you think they ought to get a good boxing?” And he’d get a resounding roar”

    These quotes might sound very familiar to any Int base survivor – in fact these are quotes from Jonestown survivors a few weeks before 909 people, many of them children, lost their lives at the hands of Jim Jones’ coerced suicides. The parallels are uncanny. Again, sorry, but if anyone should doubt what this is all about really – it aint a joke. DM must be stopped asap.

  45. Funny JM how you attempt to discredit or invalidate any thing I post.

    Methinks it has nothing to do with bringing the clear light of truth to the fore. In fact “the lady doth protest too much, methinks”.

    Your claim that there are no intelligence agencies to worry about and there ain’t nothing here but us friendly sheep while failing to mention any wearing wolve’s clothing in my opinion is rather suspect.

    Anyone who has been watching the Internet from its humble inception when it was initiated under ARPA KNA DARPA knows better.

    Social networks is a perfect way of mining for “terrorist” connections and all intel agencies know this and so do people who study intel agencies.

    Obviously you don’t.

    Either that or there is some other explanation for your “theety wheetiness” on the issue less generous for suggesting that people jump into the shark infested pool known as the internet wearing their heart on their sleeve.


    If if it as safe as you suggest.

    Then why are you posting under a pseudonym?

  46. This is ugly !

    Thanks for publishing it here.

  47. @Grasshopper: “As much as I hate to see OT level material on the ‘net, it is much better to have that than to have a central information clearing-house and approval station.”

    I have a question about that, it’s been bugging me for a long time.

    Consider the OT materials and what they represent. By their very nature they are *intensely* interesting. I’ll give LRH the benefit of the doubt and accept that BPI is not appropriate for those writings at this time (I’m not myself OT). But secrecy is a one-shot affair – if a secret leaks just once, it is out of the bag and no longer a secret. The plan with the materials seems to be:

    Plan A: Keep them secret.
    Plan B: there is no plan B. Or C, or D, or anything else.

    There is no way under the fair blue sky that the OT materials could ever have been kept secret for any reasonable length of time. It was obvious from the mid-sixties that they would leak sooner or later – you only had to look at the relentless advances in communications technology even then to know it would happen somehow somewhere.

    So if the materials were surely going to be leaked, why bother keeping them secret at all? And where’s plan B? Dm’s plan is to sue the daylights out of everyone, that’s not working out too well for him though….

    Something’s missing in this picture. Maybe I’m just not seeing it, maybe I have omitted info, but it all looks so hopelessly inadequate.

    Or is it simply a case of knowing what is inevitable and instead concentrate on making as many OTs as possible before it all leaks out so as to minimize any adverse effects?

  48. Hmmm. Your blog does pop up in my Google alert for Scientology. That’s something, at least.

  49. I found this book very disturbing, but fascinating. It was written by William Rees-Mogg, former editor of The Times, (Murdoch owned) who has some fairly right wing views, although it’s interesting that he seems to be a libertarian to the point of anarchist.

    The ‘fourth stage of human society’ where the Sovereign Individual has virtual autonomy (over governments, over banking) is reminiscent of Margaret Thatcher’s infamous quote of there being, ‘no such thing as society…’

    Well, I disagree. I believe in society.

    As far as freedom of speech, Reno v ACLU clarifies that the First Amendment does in fact extend into cyberspace.

  50. RJ,


    1. I don’t “discredit or invalidate any thing [you] post.” And you know I don’t. You say a lot of things I agree with and describe a lot of things I have also experienced. You are not totally wet.

    2. I have (twice?) – once here and once on Jeff’s blog – objected to your A=A=A associations along the lines of (artistic freedom taken here) Joe once shook hands with Jack and had his photograph taken with Jill; therefore, Joe, Jack and Jill must all be in the same Communist cell — or, in your intel-hobby world, in the same CIA spook new employee orientation class. I will also cop to having a button on that kind of naive mis-analysis. And I reserve the right to bitch you out about it again.

    3. Specifically, what I said was that Larry and Sergey who started Google are not ex-spooks. Because they’re not.

    4. I didn’t say any of the other things you then went on to impugn I did (there you go with that A=A=A thing again), e.g., that the Internet is totally safe, that social networks are without considerable threats to those who post there (see my comment below about Facebook), or that governmental agencies, businesses and others don’t mine social networks when seeking to suss out trends and/or intelligence about those who post there and topics they post about.

    5. Finally, I think you suggested I’m either a theety-weety dingbat or a spook. Gee, that’s tough choice to make. Oh, wait, I don’t have to choose either one, because neither is correct.

    6. Finally, I’m ‘Just Me’ here for the reasons you mentioned in your comment above. Probably the same reasons you’re ‘RJ’ here.

    Come on, RJ. You’re better than this. And if not, you need to join a smarter spook club. And read Dick Heuer’s books again. They’re both quite good.

    Just Me

    P.S. One more thing … I do like you, RJ. This exchange illustrates some of the problems with only online communication. It leads to sniping and one-up’ing and and getting pissed off at each other. One day we might meet, and you might like me, too. Oh well, the good news is that now we don’t have to anticipate a post from Safe about the virtues of non-violent communication.

  51. I would like to recommend a book, “Unrestricted Warfare”. It complements to “The Art of War” and helped me a lot to improve my perception and interpretation of observations regarding such operations.
    Excerpts available here:
    In it, two chinese militaries have attemped to analyse todays (1999) means and usages of warfare (mostly non-military) and worked out a formula for “winning a war”.
    I found it very worthwile to read it.

  52. Theety-weety dingbat or a spook?

    Come on JM which is it?


    Come on their association is pretty much main stream now:

    Their former employers.

    Doncha just luv reunions?

    Now stop trying to patronize me.

  53. 😆
    Y’all are cracking me up. Wish I had more time…

  54. That’s a good question to ask.

    I don’t think it looked inevitable back in the ’60s – after all, there were no faxes, copiers were in their infancy. A fax back in the late ’60s was a big spinning drum and cost a ton of money. Copiers were in big companies only. There was no internet. There were no PCs. The best that could be done was taking a picture of the materials, or remembering them. So, it was not so crazy to think it could be kept confidential. Unfortunately, as you noted, it makes for a nice mystery sandwich. You don’t see too much palavering about Fac One, or the Clam (even if some anti-Scn types call us “clams”).

    I also understand why they were confidential. It was not to extract revenue or make a mystery. There is a risk that people will spin when dealing with this, or that people will use it to harm. You don’t become an instant pillar of salt when you look at it, but figure figure on it, and you can get really, really woozy.

    So, I think the goal was to keep it confidential. But, there really is not a plan B, as far as I can tell. If I were to provide a plan B, I would say, become an independent, don’t dwell on it, and get yourself up the bridge. Plan B from the church’s side? Leave it alone. Do NOT lie about it, like those clown celebrities and Tommy Davis.

    Too late for that, of course.

  55. Very interesting way to put it, but very true. We could call them the “Miscavige Youth.” They will need some caring and special attention when the cards fall.

  56. RJ,

    Bless your heart. Now you drag in 2010 events to prove the occurrence of imaginary pre-1998 events that never happened to discredit something I never said. (If you can follow that logic chain, you’re better than I thought.)

    Also, although the 2010 cyberattack against Google by the Chinese government was not the subject of our original debate, if you want a more complete review of those events, in which ‘someone’ tried to hack into the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists and Google reached out to the NSA (the agency responsible for maintaining US computer security) and the FBI to help identify the hackers and stopping them before they cracked the gmail accounts, read this account at Sorry if The New York Times isn’t a news source approved by your spook club.

    If you really want to keep rumbling about whether Google was created by ex-spooks, please email your phone number to my hushmail account. Let’s take this outside — we’re bothering these good people in here.

    Just Me

    P.S. Think about that carefully. I could be a spook.

  57. Thanks, JM. I agree with you on Google not being “spooky,” too, by the way.

    When you think about it, it is incredible that this medium has done what it has done. Only 20 years ago, you had to agree NOT to be a commercial enterprise to be on the ‘net. I first got on the ‘net in 1992. This was pre-browser, and very, very primitive. Not fun. I was on Compuserve, which, if any of you remember, had lively Scn discussions, but was very, very controlled by the CIS (Compuserve) terms of service.

    Now, look what we have. Facebook is interesting, but it is not all-powerful. All the old ladies and old farts are on it, but you only have to look at MySpace to see what can happen – people leave if they get pissed off and do something else. Look at Yahoo – it was Google, pre-Google. Now they have no idea what they want to do.

    AT&T can get greedy with airfees, and – hey, here’s Verizon coming on line with the iPhone in January! Look at Microsoft – Big Bad Microsoft. Ooops. Not so much any more. The incredible enabling factor of the Internet and technologies (like WordPress! We love WordPress, do we not?) that ride on top of it make this a shifting sand that cannot be completely subjugated. This is not to say it is perfect, but just that it is a lot easier to get around oppression with this medium than others.

  58. I just noticed this post. Interesting. The Scientology organization trying to control free communication is like trying to stop a raging river with a sponge. It just ain’t gunna happen.

  59. Barney Rubble

    You are so right. You and I have discussed this for a while and it is true, DM is desperately bringing down the crumbling walls around him, and it is scary.

    He is obviosly dangerous. Do not know a “handling”, but just keep putting the pressure as has occurred for a year and half or so now. He will hope to god just leave.

    Stay the course.

  60. Yesterday I had my email address completely wiped out. One minute I was sending an email, and then an hour later, I no had no email address. I couldn’t log in and I was told that it just didn’t exist! Everything is gone for no apparent reason. I am having it investigated for whatever good that will do.
    Has anyone every experienced this?

  61. “Failbook”

    I liiikkke it.

    Thanks CD 🙂

  62. Not like Pravda was. This is a glossy magazine that promotes Rusia and actually has some interesting stories. At least the last issue I saw was like that.

  63. He is a remarkable guy. And you a remarkable gal.

    Anyone that can leave the church and still speak the truth fully deserves credit. Not because it is quite a feat, but because it is quite a responsibility.

  64. Geir:

    I apologize for when I had a Facebook account and your requested to be friends with me that I ignored your request.

    I am not sure what it is about you, but you scared me in some way.

    Perhaps it is the intense sense of worth, value in your eyes that frightened me away. I no longer have a Facebook account for other reasons, but I wanted you to know that.

  65. Geir:

    If you ever get to be a trusting person such as myself, that has been abused and taken advantage of a lot in life by others, including Scientologists it would be much easier to understand.

  66. Narconon uses thousands of fake internet referral help line web sites to trick people into buying Narconon, pretending to refer people to rehabs that have services like traditional ones when taking credit card information and signing them up for Narconon. There are hundresd of complaints on the internet of this deceptive trade practice. They also violate the law by not informing them of their refund policy and giving copies of receipts and contracts. These sites are run as an FSM game, with owners listed by personal name or by private proxy. The result is that many many roads covertly lead to Narconon with unsuspecting people being ripped off.

    You can read about more about these sites and the complaints that describe the deception at the below links:

    Locatelli vs Narconon Southern California
    Affidavit Venue Motion Opposition

    Complaint vs Narconon Nevada & Narconon Southern California 2009

    2004 list Narconon Spams Search Engines with 100+ Domains

    Article discussing $cientology trying to slip in websites into the mainstream of the internet:

    I and several others volunteer to help these people when we can and refunds have been gotten for some, but not all. There are differing legal statutes depending where the victim lives and what state their loved one ws sent for services. Hopefully there will be a federal case in the near future to stop this fraud.

  67. Unfortunately Alex Jones has a point. We just escaped the most catastrophic tragedies of mankind imaginable. The war in Irak was started under a False Flag to impose a reign of drugs, terror and military dominance. Together with the abolishment of legal financial restrictions, the massive sales of (il)legal drugs and mandatory panic vaccination, it was engineered to create worldwide chaos in which the powerbrokers could usurp ultimate power. It almost succeeded, almost, as there was one thing that they hadn’t considered. Only one thing effectively countered the billions of dollar of misinformation and fear campaigns. One thing was stronger than all the lies spun by Murdoch’s mainstream media: THE INTERNET, a saving grace for mankind without which even Davey could not effectively have been attacked. The Pentagon is taking over the internet to stop free flow of the truth so that future False Flag operations and fear campaigns full of lies (Al Quaida can’t even blow up 3 gas bottles on Times Square nor take out a single plane, even when aided and abetted by the CIA) will succeed. The greatest threat of freedom is the inhibition of free information; I think it’s our responsibility to keep the internet free.

  68. Marty – I just saw this post and with regard to internet manipulations, keep a reconnaissance or at least an awareness of the NSA (National Security Agency) who are pretty much the Chief Of Police. As you get higher up the org board and possibly become threatening to the status quo, they will play their games. When the militia movement became the hottest political topic in the USA, the internet was viewed as a MAJOR threat to the security of the status quo USA. They had at least one huge office building dedicated to monitoring the internet at that time. There are also AI computer programs operating AI computer programs, etc. A lot of it is lame but not all. The militia movement (which might have created more problems than it solved) was sidetracked by Waco and Oklahoma Bombing whereupon most citizens and media became good sheeple. Then we had 9-11, etc. Just something to keep in mind as you get more successful. I’m sure they are not too worried about Casablanca Tejas YET.

  69. If the email address was hosted by Microsoft Live!, they have toasted one of my hotmail addresses with no warning at all because of complaints of spam being sent from it. Spammers often forge the From: addresses.

    Michael A. Hobson

  70. If that’s true, then whoever canned the account at Microsoft Live! deserves to have their nuts squeezed in a vice. Then roasted.

    It is trivially easy for an abuse@ team to verify if the spam came out of your account or was spoofed. There is just no excuse for getting that wrong – it smacks of gross incompetence.

    If a spammer gained access to your actual account by whatever means and sent via that, then all bets are off. But that requires some intelligence, the overwhelming majority of spammers just don’t have that.

  71. RT,

    Not at all like Pravda.

    (Unless you can imagine Pravda being interested in the Libertarian Future of Freedom Foundation and Free Market (as opposed to Capitalism) economics that they did an extensive series of interview on its founder.)

    Some very good journalism in there.

    You should actually read it before you criticize or get involved in stereotypes CD.

  72. As far as I see it.

    The ‘net has sorta become the monster that is out of the control of Dr. Frankenstein (the Military Intelligence Industrial Complex) that created it.

    I was actually on the net for a short time when it was nothing but a BBS and File Sharing was allowed on certain nodes back in the late ’80’s early ’90’s using Vallee’s (that’s right the same dude who wrote all those books on UFOs) model of mailing addresses.

    We had friends who knew this kid by the name of Sky Dayton who set up some servers in his garage and called it ‘Earthlink’.

    Regrettably few of had any idea how big this whole thing was going to get.

    Many of us including myself where frustrated by how rapidly the technology was advancing and that 4GLs (that is English type languages like COBOL, Pascal, Fortran, Data Flex, Basic etc) yet at the same time reverting to binary languages like Assembly and other MCL (machine code languages that were original used on the ENIAC) to handle the massive flow of information.

    If I had of known at the time I guess I would have stayed in computer programming but instead I was more interested in going back to auditing and freeing the human spirit rather than in learning other languages and writing endless lines of code.

    Oh well!

    Now you’ll excuse me while I kick my ass around the block.

  73. Sorry to burst your bubble there but COBOL, Pascal, Fortran and Basic are 3GL – they are iterative, not declarative. Prolog and to some degree SQL are 4GL. 4GL never caught on mainstream, the actual reason is the design of CPUs. But the reason for that must be left to a different time and place, probably even a different blog 😉

    If you get a kick out of delivering auditing and are good at it, maybe you should stick to that path (it’s more worthwhile in the long run). I tried being an auditor but gave it up (I’m genuinely not even remotely good at it) and went back to being a techie, which I am rather good at. Took a huge loss at the time but these days I’m OK with it. A fellow can’t be good at everything he tries 🙂

    And now I work with the 3 Ps – perl, python, php. Be thankful, be very thankful, you do not have to maintain that stuff.

  74. Thanks.

    3GLs huh?

    Well reading the following you can understand our basic confusion:,2542,t=fourth-generation+language&i=43439,00.asp

    Not that confusion was anything new back in the day when it was our constant companion!

    Not that it matters much in the long run.

    I had mis-us to end all mis-us when I programmed.

    But I guess that was the accepted norm 😉

    (I couldn’t get the variables down and ended up asking the ol’ PDP 11 do things that were impossible back in the day when 28K was considered a lot of memory.)

    Also I hated working in frigid air conditioning!

    (Our whole office was built for machines that operated optimally at 68° or even lower….brrrrr…)

    Which meant I spent much of my time nursing a cold.

    I was a Class VI back then looking for a new career path because things were getting rather insecure for Non-SOs at SO Orgs in the PAC area back then and they were actually paying the geeks over at INCOM more than they were paying auditors!

    It wasn’t that I was money motivated then.

    But ya know when you get your ass hauled in front of a Com-ev for trying to help another human being because you supposedly missed a withhold while doing an Int RD (fer Christ sakes!) being an auditor loses the sheen it once had.

    Besides I had a PC who was willing to tech me Pascal and help her do program mods for a guy who was a Class VIII that owned a Software company.

    Actually looking back.

    I made more auditing than I did as a programmer because of all the time spent learning new sh*t and learning about different OSes that had different quirks and trying to decipher error messages in f*ckin’ ASCII &*#$$!!



    Anyway you’re probably right.

    I shoulda stuck to auditing.

    What was it with computing back that turns people into technological lepers?

    I have a friend you used to program at the Pentagon back in the ’60’s doing high level Top Secret sh*t who can’t even access his fricken email account today without my help.

  75. Watchful Navigator

    Really good question – especially since internally to its own parishioners, the “leaked OT levels” is the main argument for staying off the Internet.

    However, for the “true believers” (count me as one) and supporters of LRH’s purpose to bring us spiritual freedom, it can be instructive to re-visit history and contemplate why this (secrecy) was so.

    The cynical say it was for the money, all the way. Certainly there were financial considerations. And certainly the modern church has made it tremendously expensive to acquire these “secrets”, and disappointing to those who report back that these “secrets” weren’t helpful to them.

    (Personally, I have sort of concluded that there are enough who attest to their value, that they are definitely worth doing and having, but get over-hyped, especially with the ORIGINAL OT levels pulled off the line and illegally, per TECH DEGRADES, now referred to as “old” and so not available in the church – but they now -are- available outside of it)

    I have not done the OT levels but I have read researchers discuss them and believe I have a fairly good idea in theory of what they entail. As far as I can tell, OT II (and parts of the Clearing Course) has the “dangerous” “buttons” that could be misused or “spin people in”. The other levels appear to cover very different material and techniques, all addressing a specific area of case, and which would be “unreal” (and thus often ridiculed) by those not prepared casewise, indoctrinated by earlier training, or those untrained and expecting “something else” after going Clear.

    My educated opinion, having studied as much of the history I can get my hands on (which I would like to see confirmed, clarified or refuted by OTs who have done the levels or experienced the “history” firsthand) is that Ron made these levels secret to try to forestall for as long as possible, the possibility of these falling into “the wrong hands” and then being used to enslave rather than free.

    This was a primary concern and one of the top reasons for forming the Sea Org.

    Worries about “case harm” were secondary in the earliest days, and Freezone’s “The Pilot” does a good job in his writings, of deconstructing that now-firmly-engrained myth, while still cautioning against playing lightly with OTII material.

    These OT levels however, were eventually obtained by the US government (the last entity besides communist countries and groups themselves, that LRH wanted having access to) and began using them for military intelligence purposes (remote viewing) in the 1970’s. This had been a prime concern of LRH and I wonder what he thought when he finally learned of this breach of security, detected on GO lines.

    Here is where it gets interesting. Despite the fact that anyone working for intelligence agencies is an “illegal pc” for those very reasons mentioned above and right there in that HCO PL, David Miscavige at an event I watched in 2008/2009 (help! I’ve not been able to recall which one, exactly) bragged in a major event briefing about the small group of Scientology OTs who in violation of LRH’s policies, went to work for a top-secret government remote viewing project, putting the upper levels in the hands of a suppressive organization with the potential to dominate (and ultimately control) the planet militarily.

    This is quite the irony. A suppressive group has had the OT levels a long time, against LRH’s primary worries in trying to outrun the forces of suppression, and David Miscavige brags about it. He was obviously trying to wow the public with tales of remote viewing (which abilities are no longer necessarily attained on the present OT line-up, but were however, addressed in the ORIGINAL OT levels). Trying to wow the very same public who are asked to submit to endless Sec Checking to confirm their “eligibility”. And NO ONE apparently, caught the twisted, ironic absurdity of that presentation and the continued, endless hounding of OTs over security!!!

    (If you have that event video someone, could you youtube that part for us please?)

    Do you get it? It’s okay for the intelligence agencies who tried to take Scientology from LRH to have them, but not for -you- to look at! It is one hell of a CAN’T HAVE on desperately needed tech at a time when planetary survival is as tenuous as ever.

    So why the continued secrecy? I for one, don’t plan on looking over OTII&III until I am completely set up and ready with my e-meter to do so. Yet it remains important I feel, that we in or out of the church get in shape to do so without wasting much time, since as LRH put it, the material covered is what the implanters have used for much of our past eternity, to subjugate and control us (thetans).

    The rest of the levels, from what I understand, have been squirreled by a corrupt management (David Miscavige couldn’t get through VII apparently, and simply blew off the level, yet has invented prerequisites, requirements, off-policy Sec Checking, blanket C/Sing, previously ommitted “updates”, quickie Class IV auditor delivery, etc., all apparently to keep pre-OTs occupied, treading water or even just plain going backwards and spinning in). Altered by those who would never, ever want a thetan in a condition good enough to remote view the abusive and corrupt practices now appropriately referred to as “reverse scientology”, that have been going on at Int Base and Flag, with their effects reaching lower levels, for well over two decades.

    At any rate, I don’t know of a single “new OT levels” completion who attests to being able to do the kind of things that used to wow us in Advance magazine back when most of the “new OT” completions had ALSO done the ORIGINAL levels.

    This is by the way, not an effort to whitewash the crude beginnings of the Sea Org and its embarrassing mistakes and to say the Old Man did it all perfectly and if it weren’t for DM…, but to simply point out that times have indeed changed and the VERY REASON for secrecy and torturous pre-qualifications (other than for the mentally unprepared casewise who could conceivably go psychotic) for these levels is GONE.

    It would be nice if the Sea Org had been allowed to adhere to its purpose of “protecting the only road out”, but embroiled in the private obsessions of a madman usurper, it hasn’t.

    I would further venture to guess having watched others succeed and fail at them (so much so that “OTs” have my respect but NOT altitude with me anymore, unless I can see they are truly demonstrating effective cause in the material universe), that these levels appear to be indeed SELF-SELECTIVE in that the cynical, the unprepared, the unethical, or the unintelligent, cannot gain much from them but can acquire little more power than the power to restimulate others, in attempting to “do” them.

    So why would we leave them only in the hands of an organization controlled by a suppressive person?

    Thoughtful wrote an incredibly inspiring and relevant article
    called “The Iron Door” which gives every serious Scietologist the permission, the encouragement, and the challenge to get through these levels (the original levels as well as the “new” current OT levels) and raise one’s ability as a being, to confront the current travesty DM has made of LRH’s dream.

    The adventerous – many I believe already are at work doing just this – can remote view, perceive and evaluate data and add to the whistleblowing at all the incredibly diabolical attempts across the dynamics in motion right now to crush freedom. OT is about confront. And the evil (lowest confront there is) that’s been around that LRH wrote so eloquently about confronting, is still out there doing far worse than you’ll even hear about at the most select IAS “briefings”.

    Now that we know for sure the IAS or Freedom Magazine are asleep at the wheel, those of us who see the need should really be stepping up our abilities and making the contributions that would really make a difference. That definitely would seem to include getting up these levels. As LRH put it, “…the only faintest chance this planet has…”

    Am I wrong on this one? – or in some way off-base here?

    And Marty, I respect and appreciate your policy of not hosting “upper-level” data on your site, so please feel free to edit out anything if needed to align with that, in order to let my main comment stand.

  76. Spooks don’t scare me JM darling.

    I’ve audited a few of them and know one or two of them personally.

    What’s the big deal?

    You’re the one who has a problem with reality if you think of Larry and Sergey as being pure as driven snow until they as you say “reached out” to the NSA.

    Oh Pauleeeze!

    I’m I to believe that you haven’t heard the phrase “limited hangout”?

    Also please don’t embarrass yourself by scraping the NYT.

    You know the former employer of Judith Miller.

    By the way.

    Has anyone found those weapons of mass destruction yet?

    I’ve abandoned my hushmail account but if you want you can reach me through Marty.

    Love and Kisses

    To the spy who loves me 🙂

  77. Athena.
    This incident occurred in 2002. Did you know that ?
    I think you sounded like this was something recent.

  78. Marty, I’ve been reading your blog for months and think it and you are great. Do you realize that the mobile version of your site has google ads for the “Church” of Scientology displayed in your posts on a daily basis? Unless you don’t mind this fact, you might want to block their ads, which you can do. Or you might want to make as much money from their clicks as possible because I am sure their pay plenty per click. It’s not like anybody reading this blog is about to join the “Church.”

  79. Marty, Google News does not include in it’s news or alerts any blogs , which wordpress is, unless they have a specific Google plug-in installed in their site.

    They do, however, index blogs under the google blogs section.

    A blog is not a website. So, if you want Google News picking up your blog and including it in news Alerts, you need the plug-in. Here is an article that discusses this:

    Google News XML Sitemap Plugin | Chicago Press Release Services
    “The “Google News XML Sitemap” plugin automatically generates an XML sitemap of your WordPress site for inclusion to Google News.

    This FREE plugin follows Google News’ newest (non-deprecated) sitemap format!

    The “Google News XML Sitemap” plugin automatically generates a Google News XML sitemap including new Google News sitemap style and newly required sitemap tags such as “,” “” and “” every time a post is published, updated or deleted on your site.

    A News Sitemap uses the Google Sitemap protocol with additional News-specific tags.

    News Sitemaps are specific to Google News. This plugin automatically publishes your XML sitemap at “” for easy submission to Google Webmaster Tools.

    Unlike other sitemap generators, this plugin does not require any coding expertise and can be easily configured with just a couple clicks.”

  80. Add AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Level 3 and every other major private corporate provider of telecommunications services to the list of entities who illegally under Bush and now legally under Obama, cooperate with the NSA, CIA and Homeland security to spy on all people who live in the USA by monitoring their phone calls and internet transmissions.

  81. What about this scenario?

    DM holds a meeting with the int staff and calls someone out to humiliate them. The person walks meekly up to DM and then suddenly sucker punches him. Then turns to the rest of the people and says, “This is what this guy deserves. He is a a true suppressive squirrel and you know it. Let’s call in the cops, inform them of what we know and prosecute him. You know I’m right and it’s time we stood up and set things right. I don’t care how many cathedrals he claims responsibility for erecting. He did it with the labor of others, the parishioners’ money and our blood, sweat and tears. Who here has the courage?”
    Would it be like Jerry McGuire, where only one reluctant person stands up? Or would a dozen? Or would a hundred? Or do they all think that DM’s estimation of effort is correct? Just stuff I’m thinking about.

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