Independent vs. Radical – more differentiation

Let us not ever lose sight of what sets an Independent Scientologist apart from a Radical Scientologist.  Independent Scientologists represent the hope that the workability of Scientology can and will be salvaged from the reversal of the subject that is practiced and enforced by Radical (Corporate) Scientology.  That will be achieved by recognizing where Scientology has been and is being reversed by RS, and as-ising the reversal by practice of STANDARD TECHNOLOGY. Standard Technology can only be realized by recognizing and validating the fundamental principles and purposes of the subject – and never losing sight of them in practice.   The following passage by LRH from Creation of Human Ability (in an introduction to the Axioms)  describes some of those fundamentals, while at the same time describing the Radical Scientology reversal process quite well. 

Scientology concludes and demonstrates certain truths. These truths might be considered to be the highest common denominator of existence itself.


The following  summary of these truths has the aspect of precision observations rather that philosophic hazardings. When treated as precision observations, many results occur. When regarded as philosophic  opinions, only more philosophy results.




By this it is meant that an idea or opinion is, fundamentally, superior to space, energy and time or organizations of form, since it is conceived that space, energy and time are themselves broadly agreed-upon considerations.  That so many minds agree brings about reality in the form of space, energy and time. 


These mechanics, then, of space, energy and time, are the product of agreed upon considerations mutually held by life.


The aspect of existence when viewed from the level of Man, however, is a reverse of the greater truth above.  For Man works on the secondary opinion that mechanics are real and that his own personal considerations are less important than space, energy and time.  This is an inversion.  These mechanics of space, energy and time, the forms, objects and combinations thereof, have taken such precedence in Man that they have become more important than considerations, as such, and so his ability is overpowered and he is unable to act freely in the framework of mechanics. Man, therefore, has an inverted view.  Whereas considerations, such as those he daily makes, are the actual source of space, energy, time and forms, Man is operating so as not to alter his basic considerations.  He, therefore, invalidates himself by supposing an Other-determinism of space, energy, time and form. Although he is part of that which created these, he gives them such strength and validity that his own considerations thereafter must fall subordinate to space, energy, time and forms, and so he cannot alter the universe in which he dwells.


The freedom of an individual depends upon that individual’s freedom to alter his consideration of space, energy, time and forms of life, and his roles in it.  If he cannot change his mind about these, he is then fixed and enslaved amidst barriers such as those of the physical universe and barriers of his own creation.  Man thus is seen to be enslaved by barriers of his own creation.  He creates these barriers himself or by agreeing with things which hold these barriers to be actual.


There is a basic series of assumptions in processing, which assumptions do not alter the philosophy of Scientology. The first of these assumptions is that Man can have a greater freedom. The second is that so long as he remains relatively sane, he desires a greater freedom. And the third assumption is that the auditor desires to deliver a greater freedom to that person with whom he is working.  If these assumptions are not agreed upon and are not used, then auditing degenerates into “the observation of effect,” a pursuit which has degraded what is called “modern science.”


The goal of processing is to bring an individual into such thorough communication with the physical universe that he can regain the power and ability of his own considerations (postulates).


A Scientologist is one who understands life. His technical skill is devoted to the resolution of the problems of life…

55 responses to “Independent vs. Radical – more differentiation

  1. this was a lovely reference by LRH. I received it so well.

  2. Independent vs. Radical – more differentiation.

    Good, very good.

    New article on distinct differentiation between an apostate and a whistleblower and more on the Independents.

  3. Marty,
    This potent! Thanks for such a laser sharp, uplifting, energizing, and vital reference. I know I will carry these words and thoughts throughout my day, and good things will happen!

    I must say I also like your balance of postings: allowing discussion and airing of the profane, the mechanics, the practicalities; then presenting some of LRH’s most profound quotations, reminding us why we are here, why we are having these conversations, why we want to keep the tech alive and accessible.

    Thanks for the lift!


  4. Very cool Marty!

    To me that’s what Scientology all about.

  5. Well said, Rathbun. And thank you for the quote.

    “When treated as precision observations, many results occur. When regarded as philosophic opinions, only more philosophy results.”

  6. Theo Sismanides

    Marty, the non application of Standard Tech in the C of S is what made me leave the church.

    So you are right about what differentiates an Independent and a Radical Scientologist. It is the right and freedom to apply Standard Tech. Thus we remained relatively sane thus we desire a greater freedom. And, yes, Man can have a greater freedom. In these troubled times where Man is once again enslaved, denied once again the tools of going free, the pure knowledge to set him free, we stand tall against the suppression of the knowledge, preserving Man’s right to go free.

    To the degree that we act as a group of OTs we will make it. That takes daily communication and coordination between us. A flow of data (wins from various areas, references like the above to keep us in ARC, actions of any kind forwarding the goals of Scientology, a resurgence in tone level and thus in responsibility for everyone here) is needed on a daily basis (Communication) so that ARC amongst us is kept high. Just this morning as I was preparing my coffee I thought that a life is not worth it if it is not for a worthwhile purpose. That purpose (the purpose of going free and helping others go free) looks that it has been thwarted by now. But we Come Back.

  7. Tony DePhillips

    As an example of this idea of helping people to get better in lfe I offer this:

    I was talking to a friend who recently got into Scientolgy. He was doing pretty well when he got in and had a philisophical bent. He bought a 7K package and felt good about it and was learning. He was then hard sold to buy more. He didn’t want to but said that he bought into the shpeel from the OT8 who presented himself as the master of life.

    He ended up buying a lot of HGC auditing and told me that he would tell the auditor that he was really stressed out about his finances and the auditor would sagely shake her head and indicate that his needle was floating and carry on with the session. His finances got worse and worse. The E.D. OT 8 would then handle his ethics and then chastise him for violating his finances and the next day regg him for more money. This continued until he was broke and then he was cast aside . He takes repsonsibility now for what occured. He trusted a group and a couple of people who presented themselves as very able and confident that they could take him to a higher place. They failed him. They betrayed the trust that he had in them. You could say that it was all his help for being naive. I say that he took them at face value and they were a major cause for ruining him on his finances.

    Another friend I know went to Flag to do an L. He only went there to do the first one and liked it. They (Flag terminals) then told him that he could not go home because he didn’t have c/s ok. Being a person who was trying to do the “right “thing he stayed even though he had a major PTP about having to get back to work. He said that the other 2 Ls he did were not that great. Here is an organization supposedly designed to help people do better in life committing some of the biggest betrayals imagineable. This is what you get from corporate radical $cn.
    The secnod guy got it handled by an Independent Scientolgist to VGIs and at a fraction of the price. To me that says a lot.
    The first guy is still picking up the peices.
    If you were allowed to speak openly in the cult of cabbage then a lot of this could be prevented. The ED of the Seattle Idle org could be quoted as saying ” I will never apologize for getting someone to buy the Bridge”. I guess that means even if it ruins them.

  8. This is awesome, Marty. Great reference. It truly does describe the core of what Scientology is.

    This is, of course, a complete reversal of what “Science” tells us. We are the product of evolution. We, we human beings, Homo Sapiens, are a random accident of the universe. And yet, we are the only things we know of that can see, perceive, and comprehend what the universe it. In fact, we are the only things that can view the universe.

    Two points, outside of Hubbard, to support the above:

    1. Alan Watts. A rainbow can only exist if there is someone to observe it. Without the observer, the light just moves on. Each person who views a rainbow sees a different one. It is an illusion caused by the light source refracting through the rain droplets, and finally reaching the observers eyes. Without the observer, it is just wet sunlight. Question, then, who creates the rainbow?

    2. Deepak Chopra. Where are we? We are not in our body. Our body is in us. Our body and this universe exists only in Consciousness. We are consciousness. This is a Hindu point of view, modernized by Chopra.

    Scientology and most religions fall completely apart if we are truly just material, if we, Human Spirits, are not spirits at all, but a series of bio-mechanical processes. But, if we are just mechanics, made of chemicals combined in interesting ways, we are exactly the same as rocks. Exactly the same. Emotion does not matter, relationships do not matter, art does not matter. Not even matter matters. Pretty grim if you ask me.

    It is also untrue. Without us, there is no universe.

  9. Oh, and the three assumptions ARE the difference between Scientology and whatever it is that Mr. David’s crew is doing.

    Marty, this reference has been a stable datum for me for a long time – thanks for putting it out there.

  10. Pingback: Quick aside from Marty’s Blog | Grasshopper's Blog

  11. I would say, the difference is that I want to see results in real life. Not just feeling better. No results for me is, that nothing happened. At least there should be some „TA action“ in life. Sample: yesterday while driving to work I put that task on automatic and had a look at some mind stuff. The driver behind me out of the blue reacted and flashed his front lights a view times. No evident reason for that. On other occurences people get mad at me without any reason at all. On the street or train or wherever. If I adjust and think of myself to be normal then nothing of that sort happens. If I go onto the path of going up then I have much to face of this sort. In earlier times also in the org. Especially after a good session. I am now used to it that some consider me nuts. (the mildest form of attemt to get you back on the track of being effect of your environment.) Or in simple words: if others in general pat you on the back you have not made it. The better you are in disconnecting from the trap the more opposition you might face. Would be nice to have it all nice and easy going. My reality is quite different. But there is also a very positive side of this coin I do not want to miss.
    Current corporate Scn is only doing all it can to stop you from going up. They went mad trying to accomplish that. A bit similar to me going out for a walk, being ext and enjoying life. Not long then you have a madman on your toe.

  12. Marty,
    This is a great essay! Thank you very much


  13. Marty – When you originally introduced the concept of “Radical Scientology” you picked an appropriate term. I don’t remember if you said it already, but it makes an excellent abbreviation with regard to R/S = Rock Slamming Scientology. Fundamentalism in religion refers to relying on basic fundamentals or principles of the actual religion but this is an actual misnomer with regard to Christianity or Islam where Fundamentalists operate on fixed ideas as expressions of the lowest common denominator. These are the Degrader parts of “Jokers and Degraders”. Emphasis was usually put on the Jokers and not the Degraders.
    Rock Slams were an elusive needle read and hard to reproduce but you could see them come very much alive when a preclear got into an area of severe aberration – the constant push/pull of O/Ws or just same insane postulate in an engram.
    I bring this up because it is interesting to apply this methodology on a 3rd Dynamic and even 4th Dyanamic basis. DM doesn’t just commit O/Ws but he Rock Slams. Just like a normal preclear, his actual evil intentions are elusive or hard to isolate and blow. What used to blow charge on Expanded Dianetics was Listing and Nulling for evil intentions and then running them out R3R. So much effort was put into the right questions so as to pin point the area of charge and then pluck out the exact lynch pin that was holding it all in place. It would be interesting to a group L4BR or the like on DM and also the “forces” influencing him that have contributed to the dog’s breakfast that now calls itself Dianetics and Scientology but which is called Radical Scientology on this blog.
    The book 8-8008 talks about MEST beings using electronics to trap THETA beings. MEST beings think they are MEST. They are introverted and want to introvert others. DM and his enablers share this nature of introverting others. Not all on-line Scientologists (meaning in the orgs) have been successfully introverted but they have certainly been introverted on the subject of Scientology.
    On the net and in entheta books. Otto Roos claimed LRH had List One R/Ses. I don’t know if that is true; but if it is, I can guarantee that Otto had even biggers ones or more significant ones than he accuses LRH of. Otto had sex with his preclears in the middle of a session. Maybe that’s not as bad as hitting them. He would also intimidate Treasury into giving him bonuses in the thousand dollar a month range (big big money for those times). He was the only staff member who could bypass the messengers and walk straight into LRH’s research room. When he left that was pretty much the end of LRH having anything other than a life guarded by sentinels. After all, he couldn’t trust his most trusted techie.
    If LRH actually had the R/Ses Otto said he did (and in spite of what I have said, I suspect that Otto, despite his screwed up state, based his reports on something), it says something in itself but what it says can be very misleading. The lazy answer is to say that LRH was screwed up. Not a satisfactory answer.
    Scientology represents FREEDOM as was said in the above quotation Marty put up. If LRH had List One R/Ses they are obviously reactions to the subject, and while he certainly would have had personal issues with regard to these items, those R/Ses also represent the forces/counter-forces that he was having to deal with.
    “Who or what would resist Scientology…..trap a thetan….introvert a whole planet……and so on…..?”
    These forces exist with or without LRH and everyone has to deal with them on a group and individual basis. It also reaches well beyond the current sphere of the Scientology movement.
    It has been said that evil is nothing more than a test. If one chooses evil, one has certainly determined their worthiness for the future. In the end, it comes down to how each one of us will respond to what we experience. For whatever he did or did do, LRH helped me to understand these things on a very deep level. LRH also said that Scientology is the only organization or subject (don’t remember the exact phrase) that can run itself out. Having said that, DM has accomplished something that neither INTERPOL, the APA, the World Bank or any other enemies of Scientology could do. He has become symbolic of the biggest engram in the history of Dianetics and Scientology.
    How about this? A million years ago, people are running out DM and his loyals officers like people of this time run out OT III!

  14. Marty, thanks for posting this great passage by LRH.
    I’m experiencing this on a very personal level right now…..seeing others in RS allow their own determinism to be squashed by the group using force and pressure to agree with them.
    I am so grateful to be an Independent Scientologist. What a FREEDOM it is to truly think for myself and make my OWN decisions for my life!!!!

  15. your either a troll or in serious need of some mest work.

  16. Current corporate Scn went mad by trying to stop people and this is somehow similar to you going for a walk?

    That really makes no sense.

    Also, if drivers are flashing you while you’re distractedly driving your car, may I suggest that you focus on the task in hand. The obvious reason for you not knowing why the other driver warned you is that you weren’t aware of your environment.

    On reflection, I guess you’re a troll, here to muddy the message board.

  17. Ahhhhh. Chicken Soup for the thetan 🙂
    – LRH for putting it into words and Marty for forwarding it…
    F/N VGIs.

  18. Nice quotes. That book was so rich. Is it still in print?
    I feel the only chance scientology has is in the independent field. The rank and file church member has followed the church down a long path of change from purposes, postulates and considerations being on top to MEST being the driving force. Add to that thought-stopping in order to stay loyal and “in-line” with the managment and one has a field dead in the water.

    It seems every day the Independent field gets more plentiful from “starts” and “rollovers”. So there is still hope if enough folks are exposed to the truth in time and enough of them are capable to stepping up across the dynamics.

  19. Hey Loki, COHA is in print in the new “Basics” format – not sure how it compares with the real one. One book that is no longer in print is The Phoenix Lectures, a book that blew my socks off. Sure, you can get a set of CDs of the lectures, but sometimes there is nothing like a book that distills it to the essence. Ron published the book – why not Mr. David?

  20. Metaqual, interesting read. From 1950 onward, LRH’s life became totally encompassed in Dianetics and Scientology. He ate, slept and drank it. And he had a case as we all do. He had the same type of reads as we all do. To me, it explains a lot but it doesnt mean anything beyond that. The tech is still a workable set of processes to improve ones life and the conditions of it. Whatever demons or counter-intentions he had in his case, they may have contributed in the less than perfect transmission of the material and the less than perfect organizational ways and means he used. That just means he was human.
    Whats important is what we do with the benefit of hindsight going forward. What corrections we emply to ensure the highest and most altruistic goals of sciewntology are the ones being targetted and met.
    Only in the Independent movement can this hindsight be fully utilized for the good of all.

  21. Thanks Karen #1 for the link! I was raised “Protestant.” Now, I understand about that and how it relates to our current movement. Good stuff! H

  22. That link brings you to an very good essay. Excellent piece.

  23. Metaqual,
    Thank you so much for this post. It is interesting and enlightening on many different levels.
    First of all, I actually had a cognition when you used the phrase “DM AND HIS ENABLERS share this nature of introverting others’ Although I have never liked the term “enabler” because it seemed to have psychiatric roots for its use, it is apt in the case of Church followers. Without their financial support, (through the various lines by which money in the Church travels upwards to him), DM would not be able to do what he does, so yes, they do “enable” him. Also, by following his psychotic and destructive orders, they “enable”him. It is as LRH described in one of the HCO PL’s, they are becoming accessories to the crimes. By participating and upholding his orders and abuses, they enable him to do what he does. Without that, he would be nothing. It is like the friend who buys the alcoholic his next drink, knowing that alkie could kill himself on the drive home. He is enabling that situation.
    I am so glad that I announced my Independence. It has probably been the most theraputic thing that I have done as a thetan since getting my first auditing on the Bridge. The only other win that I have that compares is the actualization of and the attestation of the state of CLEAR OT, at Flag in 1977. My repressed OT abilities are manifesting once again, my postulates work, I have ARC and KRC that rises on a daily basis, I have so many new REAL friends, and for the first time in a very long time, I am happy. That true, genuine happiness that you feel inside that no one can touch or step on because it is there and it is truth and it doesn’t go away. Even though I have been off the lines since May 3, 2001, my unwillingness to openly state that I was an Independent Scientologist, due to fear of reprisal and more difficulties in communicating with my son, was holding me down. Even though I wasn’t really supporting R/S any more, now that I have gone public, it is a whole different arena, a new ballpark, as they say. In my silence, I was an enabler, afraid to put in ethics, a silent accessory to the crimes.
    The above statement is not intended as a make wrong of those under the radar. I have those friends under the radar, and they are there with good reason. In my case, I was already declared, had already lost my Scientology friends, but I had an easy route to get back in, good comm lines with International Justice Chief (he sold me my first set of basic books, if you can believe that), good relations with the Continental Justice Chiefs of Western United States, Pacific Area Command, and the Flag Land Base. I had direct comm lines, pick up the phone and call anytime relationships with these people. I had approval for a new Committee of Evidence anytime I was ready anywhere I wanted it, at Flag or in Los Angeles. In short I was a “GOOD” SP. LOL! I told our new Indie friend,Yvonne, that I had gotten into a Power condition as an SP. But something just held me back. I just couldn’t go back, and didn’t know why. When I started doing research on the Internet on “disconnection” and parental rights, I found out why. OH MY GOD!
    So yes, I still had a lot to lose, as I had an easy route back “in”. But even my silence in that condition held me down from my own personal integrity. A few days ago, I wrote my son, Chase, a Happy New Year mesage by e-mail. I said “I hope it is the best year EVER”. A couple of days later, he wrote me back and said, “Well, it would be, if you would come around”. Meaning do my A to E steps and get back in good standing with the Church. I responded, “Dear Chase, I have come around. I now have my personal integrity back, and I am happier than I have ever been, except for the situation with you.” and typed out the whole reference on personal integrity by LRH. To paraphrase it, as the reference is not handy, “it is knowing what you know, and having the courage to say what you know”. Of course, there is more to it than that, but you get the idea. Many of you will know the reference of which I speak.
    I just want to thank Marty and this wonderful community of friends for providing me the safe environment so that I could observe, know what I know, and say what I have observed and know. Doing so on this blog has brought me happiness and friendship that I did not know was possible in this life, and thank you to LRH for discovering the exact route to personal freedom, awareness and happiness, and communicating it in such a way that we could use it to achieve a better life.
    With all my love,
    Catherine von Ach, proud to be an
    Independent Scientologist from Austin, Texas

  24. Kathy Braceland

    Right on Marty. Beautiful reference.

  25. Always nice to get back to fundamentals, good quote. To differenciate and deliniate purpose as apposed to fixed and uninspected MEST adherence is another way of saying or qualifying sanity – but it’s an action definition, that’s important. As I look at my ‘work a day world’ I often marvel at just what a stellar high concept and activity simply defining what sanity actually is. It’s a lonely pursuit sometimes and the resistance of the many in that work a day world without a workable knowledge of themselves or of where they are is excruciating – more and more this site is a welcome read at the end of the day.
    I have one note of caution from a word clearers’s perspective. It is unfortunate but apparently necessary to use modifiers or adjectives with the term, Scientology ie Radical or Independant. DM’s all too frequent use of the word religion added to mix has created a scenario where something which should be clearly understood and delinated such as the word Scientology itself has now blended into and with associative definitions and other ways to misunderstand words. Please take note that more and more people you will run into will have this associative MU.
    For those apostates who were once capable of defining Scientology accurately but now counter create against it have set themselves up for the worst of worst crashing MUs later in existance, which by the way for them, will become very dark indeed.
    I much prefer the light of truth, lies are all to easy to come by.

  26. wow!!! Great post! its nice to read authentic real standard SCN as opposed to RScn. What a breath of fresh air.

    Scn has become one big reg machine only interested in what status u r and if u don’t upgrade to ur next status, watch out. u will be headed for ethics or worse

    keep on posting, keep on exposing!!!!

  27. George,

    I *get* it. When you go in session, you want to be in session on all dynamics, not just the first. (Also, I have some “R” on the “booms” you mentioned as being aware of in an earlier comment. And yes, I haven’t been aware of them much in a while…) Have you done a Solo Course and any Solo auditing?

  28. Tony,

    As you know, I am friends with one of the individuals you mention.

    I’m as sickened by this as you are. The PTS type A sit this caused for the person is incredebile.

    The same OT8 E/D also told this individual something on the order of “If your family is upset about your finances, just make sure you don’t tell them it’s the church’s fault.” …….Seriously…..if you can believe it.

    Truth Revealed, alright!

  29. Dear Rory,
    “. . . or worse”, you will be beheaded!

  30. Marty, there are two main ideas in Scientology that have been invaluable to me as a spiritual being. What you have addressed in today’s posting is one and the other is the handling of O/Ws to bring about as-isness and relief to an individual. Both are priceless diamonds!

  31. Yes! LRH says one’s personal integrity is more important than their own immediate life. So what’s the big deal about leaving a group or church, especially one that is out-ethics? I remember on the ship, CLEAR OT was one of the most awesome states when you heard it announced in the HGC. To my knowledge, “enabler” is not a psychiatric word but one that was coined or at least imbedded in 12 step programs of alcoholic and other addict recovery programs. It equates to a potential trouble source.
    There’s more to the thread I wrote about R/Ses but its too involved to go into now. Right now I feel that there is a calm before the storm and that is the storm that will be hitting the Church of Mestology. Despite that, I heard of a good result locally. Surprised me. Not even they are all bad but I don’t mean to suggest one should go there.

  32. Independent Scientologist

    The Independent Scientologist says:

    These are all great comments!

    I am currently moving along nicely on the Clearing Course, and having great wins in life that seem to flow directly from my daily solo auditing sessions. I am eager to finish this action mainly because I can’t wait to see what other amazing grade chart actions LRH came up with!

    What I like to stress always with other indepedent scientologists is: you are now free from the clutches of Radical Scientology, you are free to employ standard tech and move up the Bridge – so do so!!! Now!!!

    – Ron Matlock, proud to be an independent scientologist, awed and humbled to be moving into the realm of Clear and OT

  33. And this ED is OT 8 ?

    According to LRH, justifications and destructive acts are dealt with at Grade II …

  34. Is there still the goal of clearing the planet ? There there any thing like “God created all Religion’s Christian and non, to facilitate salvation for all mankind” Vatican II. I’m Catholic and Proud .

  35. Not to put too fine a point on this, but in the version of Scientology 0-8 released during LRH’s lifetime, there was a chapter included (on page 27, I believe) called “Considerations and Mechanics” which echoed the above quote from CoHA.

    Not surprisingly, thar chapter is OMITTED from the Basics version. It is kinda obvious that to DM Mechanics take precedence over Considerations, which is about as reversed as you can get. I think Cowboy Poet nailed it when he commented that DM was “dumb as a post”.

  36. Metaqual
    It is a big deal for her. It was a big deal for me. I lost MANY friends. Others lost family. It’s a big deal for anyone who is still trapped in the PTSness of the church. To them the danger of losing their loved ones is very real. Even after ‘coming out’ it is a long road to recovery for most.
    You don’t have to agree, but common decency should at least allow for some understanding of how other people feel and at most require that you invalidate a heartfelt communication.

  37. I get it Catherine. I went through those fears and the personal battle of personal integrity vs safety.
    I’ve also experienced the amazing resurgence of case gain from actually BEING an OT. It was an incredible unexpected bonus and I’ve heard similar stories from many others.
    Very well done on making it through the sticky Doubt Formula 😉

  38. that should read ‘that you DON’T invalidate a heartfelt communication. Sorry – kind of late in the UK.

  39. Probably what we used to call a “bypassed case” back the AO.

    Another case phenomenon like say ….hmmmm… a hidden standard.

  40. I respectfully disagree Tom.

    A post would probably be more likely accepted to MENSA than Dave.

  41. Hey that’s great Mat!!!

    Don’t rush it and take your time.

    Do what Ron says in the CC booklet and when ya get to the OT Levels you’ll be kickin’ ass an’ takin’ names.

    The adventure continues 🙂

  42. I think the real difference between the Radical or in fact the non Scientologist pretending to be one and the real Scientologist who would have to be independent by definition is that a real
    Scientologist would want to use for his and others betterment the discoveries of L Ron Hubbard. LRH didn’t just invent a bunch of technology that does or doesn’t do something. He discovered certain basic laws that if applied would get a result. Drop an apple and it falls to the ground not because someone says so but because there is an underlying law governing that action. A true Scientologist recognizes this fact and does what he can to apply those basic laws to his and others benefit and betterment. A radical (non scientologist) doesn’t understand this or care to use the best tools to better himself or others. He is just caught up in the whorlwind of organization, social or whatever and blindly swept along with Comand Intention whatever that is never questioning it or comparing it’s workability to a standard (natural law). That is not to say that there are many who just don’t know any better and are just hoping that they will get gains believing the existing Church is using the correct Tech. But it is obvious that the sequence is Be Do Have not Have first.

  43. Catherine I’d tell him his ethics are out and and he’s faking it. Have you been able to get him to look at the websites? I’ll give him an R-factor if you think it would help. If he’s trying to take the moral high ground then he might not even know what’s going on in the first place.

  44. Hi Tom,
    no I did not any upper stuff.
    May I add: since weeks I am thinking about that I should not do any commenting on this blog. I think I do that. Except I have really some essential to tell that only has to do with real MEST happenings. Body, Talk, Sight. Time place form event stuff.
    Good Bye.

  45. So the super phantastic “golden age of tech” doesn’t prevent the bypassed case …

    Good to know.

  46. Tony
    Thanks for that.

    You said: “The ED of the Seattle Idle org could be quoted as saying ” I will never apologize for getting someone to buy the Bridge”. I guess that means even if it ruins them.”

    I personally think that regs should not be there “to sell the bridge” at all. I feel they should be there to get the person onto the next service that will most benefit the person in his life, in the person’s own opinion, and by their own determinism. It is rather at odds in my universe to be applying a technology that has as a purpose “to rehabilitate a being’s self determinism”, only to stomp all over any determinism as soon as there is any sign of it developing.

    I would have to surmise that this EDs ethics are a little wonky.

    To me it sounds like the ED of the Seattle Idle Org, has firmly as his purpose to SELL. That he is supposedly selling “the bridge” seems to just be a convenient excuse. If he was really interested in doing something for a person, I would kind of expect that he would actually DO something FOR THE PERSON.
    His purpose should be somewhere along the lines of “freeing beings” and making them more able. His stat would therefore reflect “freed beings” and “more able beings”.
    By your account his main purpose seems to be “getting money”. Other considerations like “freed or more able beings” don’t seem to come into his equation, or if so, then they seem to be placed at a much lower value.

    Same attitude is evident all the way up to the top of DMs organization.

    The Independent field by comparison? Haven’t heard much regging for dollars. Where it exists it seems to be a totally secondary consideration after “doing something FOR the person”.

    So… regarding the statistic of “Freed or more able beings”:

    The Church of Scientology .. treasonous at best.

    Independent Scientology… Well… Moving on Up a Little Higher, by all reports.


  47. Karen B

    A little something you might enjoy…

    Self Inspection
    I walked the path,
    deep into my past,
    of sins
    and lies
    and shame,
    till I came to the very spot
    where I’d left my Honor lain.

    What joy I felt,
    when all was seen!
    The pure unbridled gain,
    when I finally saw what I had done,
    my Honor,
    mine again!


  48. Naw!

    More than likely By pass more cases than it will actually handle with its totally rote, pedantic, robotic and ritualistic procedure.

    Probably more PCs would probably get more gain from having holy water sprinkled on them or going to an analyst.

    At least in those cases there is a live terminal as opposed to say HAL 9 the “auditor droid”.

    That and the 3 swing F/N or its ethics attitude that totally violates the Tech Recovery PL.

    Did you know you can by pass a grade by overruning too?

  49. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Great link and truly succinct and timely, Karen! 🙂 That’s LRH. Thank you for the rays of sunshine!


  50. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Thanks Marty! Blew lots of charge and went exterior!! The simplest considerations bring the greatest freedom. Θ!

  51. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    It’s a WIN to have so many Independents supporting LRH’s legacy. Just makes my day (coffee helps too)! 🙂

  52. Gary,

    Seems history repeats itself.

    But the high school drop out who thinks that Pearl Harbor was attacked by “suicide bombers” would probably be unaware of this point.

    Which proves that for Miscavige:

    “Ignorance is bliss”

  53. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    “At least in those cases there is a live terminal as opposed to say HAL 9 the “auditor droid”.”

    RJ, I’d be laughing my ass off at this statement IF it wasn’t true.

    GAT is just a robotic auditor trainer tech. Every failure of the PC is from this crap tech. DM is directly responsible for it as it was his “bright” idea. Sheesh. The fact that a person’s case is not being as-ised during auditing sessions is a testament to DM’s Reversed Scientology. If the Cof$ is having major problems that persist, then guess who the WHO is? David Miscavige is THE source to all of the Bad Indicators occurring in today’s (and the last 30+ years)!

  54. Gary,

    I had to laugh out loud when back in the day I was doing my trepidatious forays on to the internet when I was still “in” and came across some FZ wags interpretation of what the initials for RTC stood for:

    “Robotics Technical Center”

    Soooooo true 🙂

    Talk about *reverse* tech.

    I think turning auditors into robots would apply.

    Personally I think the most destructive thing he’s done to Scientology was release the Golden Age of Tech which pretty much violates points 1-10 of KSW.

    The rest is just icing on the cake.

    I think if anyone gets any case gain these days in the Church its pretty much an accident and is soon “handled” by caving the person in with the Clear (Un) Certainty Rundown.

    Or “auditing” them on NED after they have done the advanced courses.

    Regarding stats.

    All you have to do is look at the cumulative stat of Clears made which is now 1/4 of what it was when Dave took over the controls.

  55. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Beautiful. Truth know once again. 🙂

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