Jason Beghe phoned me to catch up with hurricane aftermath news. He told me that shortly after the New Yorker story ran a John Connolly, who represents himself as a Vanity Fair regular contributor, phoned Jason. Connolly tried to pump Jason for anything he knew about the New Yorker’s investigation. A covert investigation of the author Lawrence Wright. While doing so Connolly attempted to drive a wedge between Jason on the one side and Mike Rinder and I on the other. Since Jason didn’t just fall off the turnip truck Connolly did, hard.
John Connolly has been a Church of Scientology Office of Special Affairs informant for nearly two decades. He has infiltrated several journalists doing stories on Scientology during that time, posing as a like-minded investigative journalist working on a Scientology story. Journalists have apparently either not compared notes, or simply not noticed that Connolly hasn’t delivered on a Scientology story in the twenty years he says he’s been working on one. Connolly was originally recruited by Eugene Martin Ingram.
Here is an excerpt from a document authored by then-DCO External OSA INT (currently CO OSA INT – and at all times since the early eighties to the present Intelligence Chief OSA Int effectively) Linda Hamel. The document is dated, coincidentally, 14 February 2006 – five years ago, today. It reports on Connolly’s spy work against the author of the unauthorized biography of Tom Cruise, UK journalist Andrew Morton.
Welcome to the sunlight John Connolly.
14 Feb 2006
Connolly was here in LA working on the Pellicano story and contacted Morton and met with him on the basis of gaining his cooperation to be interviewed for an article for Vanity Fair about the books Morton has done on celebrities including the one he is writing on Tom Cruise. Connolly wanted to see what Morton was like and get any information about where Morton is currently at with regard to writing the book and to see if Morton would agree to be interviewed for an article. Based on the meeting, Connolly said that Morton seems to have finished his research already and is busy writing the book.
Connolly told Morton that it would not be a puff piece and would show both sides including what would be said about Morton. (Connolly will use the article to investigate Morton’s past treatment of other celebrities, use of sleazy sources, etc. that would undermine Morton’s credibility). Morton said he would check with St. Martin’s Press to get their take on cooperating for the story. Morton seems to be interested in generating publicity for the book.
Connolly’s impression of Morton is that he is a serious writer and is a focused person but enjoyable to talk to. He knows how to use his charm to get people to talk. Morton also told him that it only took him five weeks to write the Monica Lewinsky book – so he is capable of churning out a lot in a short period of time.
Morton said that he thought that Tom Cruise was a good story and that is why he wanted to write the book. The reporter got the impression from talking with Morton that Morton has collected a lot of information about the Church and that this will be well covered in the book. Morton also mentioned that he has an assistant who is working for him.
Morton also said that he had met Paul Barresi a couple of times but did not go into the details of what Barresi said.
Connolly’s impression is that Morton is a formidable adversary who is not going to back down. He thinks that Morton has made up his mind already as to the angle of the book but did not specifically say what it was.
Morton mentioned that he had received a nasty letter from Bert Fields – he didn’t have any further comment about this.
Morton asked if Anthony Pelicano ever worked for the client (the Church). Connolly, who is an expert on Pelicano said “no” and he doesn’t think that Tom Cruise has ever met Pelicano. Connolly will be getting back to Morton to see what St. Martin’s Press says. He has been given background documents that we have on Morton and on Barresi who we know that Morton has been using.
This UK reporter that we have a line to has helped get information out about Morton hiring Paul Barresi. He is willing to continue to feed information and documents to the UK tabloids to discredit Morton. He made a proposal that he could rapidly write a pre-emptive positive book about Mr. Cruise, which he thought would undermine the one from St. Martin’s Press. However, when this idea of a pre-emptive book was checked with Tommy Davis, it was not something that he felt Mr. Cruise would want.
This UK reporter will continue to be used for feeding information and stories to the UK tabloids about Morton. There is a rumor about Morton no longer being with his UK publisher Michael O’Mara which will be checked into to see if there was a conflict or a falling out. This could possibly be another attack point on Morton if it is found that there was a falling out.
In the US Connolly, wants to do an investigative story and put a piece together on Morton and his use of sleazy sources in the books he has done about celebrities such as Madonna, the Beckhams and Tom Cruise. This would attack Morton on his reputation questioning the credibility of his sources.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Marty,
I dig how you can handle a serious issue (the entire DM problem and all of its ugly sub-products like this Connolly snake), but at the same time, not be serious ABOUT it.
That, plus having the truth on your side, and we all win.
VWD!
Ahhh … I just love that sunlight! John Connelly – You’re da Man!
And Linda Hamel … get that bikini line taken care of – it’s time for a tanning 🙂
I think there needs to be a Rogues Gallery of the agents that work for the Office of Special Affairs that can be posted on the internet.
Mat, there is an out of date – but fairly accurate – one on the net that I saw not too long ago. Sure would be a great service if someone picked up on that, brought it up date (both with info and format wise).
Marty ~~
It was good that you briefed me on who John Connally was before I connected with him.
I loved it that I could feed him what I wanted OSA to read…..
John1885C@aol.com.
He’s a “Journalist” who has not written or produced an article in 20 years.
Indeed
Spirit of Play, Baby!
Marty,
How Linda keeps it up day after day is amazing. First Snow White and backing the Go crims but leaving no scars on her; hen CO GO US during the short reorg in 82; after that and always OSA INT Intelligence.
Never in trouble, never doing decks and never the RPF.
Clearly a woman who knows too much, but obviously not not enough to actually live her Code of Honor and Personal Integrity.
Once a wonderful being and now so in the trap.
How DMs sucks the truth and theta out of the best never ceases to amaze me.
Well put.
The Church is like a Jenga tower – and the last couple of sticks are getting pulled. Well done on this Marty!
This obsession with Tom Cruise is way over the top. Sure, he is/was a number 1 box office draw, but really. I am sure that Travolta never played that game, at least not lately. But, I have to wonder what Travolta IS up to. Surely this crap is washing up on his beach, too. I have to think that it is tiring to keep covering up for these morons. I know it was for me.
Donations hard at work creating OT’s and Clears by running bozo intel operations that make the keystone cops look like Phd’s.
And, BTW:
Just got my Scientology News commemorative edition of the New Years Eve Event for 2011 – special edition since this is the 100th birthday year for LRH. And, who is on the cover? LRH?? Nope – DM.
With the revelations above, we know who DM thinks is “number one”.
Lastly, I am overhwhelmed with the level of counter intel that Marty and fellow independents are running on the DM glutz PI network. Every time DM tries to score a few points, he gets cut off at the pass…gotta love it!
Centurion
Need I say, more mud slinging?
I don’t wish to focus any topic on myself, but people like this posing as investigative journalists is the reason why I came to the conclusion that it would be best not to make public my experiences in Scientology.
Is there anybody the church has not yet “brainwashed” into doing their dirty deeds? To think that I was a part of that church saddens me.
Every day one hears NOT success stories coming out of the church, but reports like this, back room sleaze. It is what makes the Church of Scientology today so newsworthy.
Centurion,
Me too, got many copies of the New Year 2011 Scn News Mag. Lots and lots of news about Mest and false stats Idle Orgs,etc such horseshit.
Also new from a KA drinker they (KA) have been buying these mags/pub all a long, but now-most are disinfected or sick of it. As for me. me too.
Centurion,
Yes, an interesting Scientology News edition. LRH as the only photo on page 93 near the end. 5 pages had only DM on them. Due most likely to his increased status for finding the errors Ron left in his written books. Now we know the real reason Tiger Woods spit on the Dubai green playing golf. Even Tiger is thoroughly disgusted with the sad state of affairs.
DM keeps getting beat at the pass because only the Independents are applying LRH. HCOPL 21 Nov 72 How to Handle Black Propaganda.
Fair use quotes:
“The basic characteristic of extreme madness is perpetual attack, attacks on anything, attacks on persons or things which contain no menace.
Extreme, not petty, crime is at the root of such an impulse.
The attacker has an evil purpose in life. He is a thing of death, not life. And his harvest is a death harvest. …
His evil purpose takes many forms and expressions. The end product is the same – death. …
Where an attacker lacks the physical means of destroying others and where his own purpose would fail if disclosed, the attacks become covert.
He uses word of mouth, press media, any communication channel to spit his venom. He hides himself as the source, he makes the verbal attack seem logical or real or proven. …
This is black propaganda.”
—
On the part of Marty and the fellow independents it is where we see the handling as written by LRH.
More fair use quotes.
“In the face of a black propaganda campaign, … these are some of the rules that apply.
1. Fill the vacuum of omitted data with factual data.
2. Prove all false utterances heard are lies.
3. Discredit every rumor encountered.
4. Handle the interest level with any utterance.
5. Carefully study out the scene until the exact source is located.
6. Use the knowledge of source to impede or destroy the source of black propaganda by noncriminal means.
7. Continue to fill the vacuum of no data with good data using any channels available.”
“So a continual truthful and artful torrent of public relations pieces must occur. Then one day there is no enemy. And one’s repute is high.” LRH
—
That is the correct on source handling and that is what we see on this blog. When we factor in the delivery of standard Scientology in auditing and training done by the Independents we even make it easier.
HCOPL 22 Sept 88R PR series 34 Defense.
Short but sweet by LRH.
“The best defense on any front would be an enormous increase in popularity and delivery volume of Scientology. Public opinion could be built up formidably.
Whatever other defense is in progress, the above could be and will be, if done, the key factor: overwhelming public popularity.”
If OSA would just word clear and understand and apply the LRH policies the current PR flaps and garbage being caused by the current Church actions would not exist. Instead – they aren’t delivering volume standard Scientology and therefore they are not getting overwhelming public popularity.
Yes, Centurion, DM getting cut off at the pass … gotta love it!
Was this it? http://www.privatedicks.org/
Well Done to all of you guys. Marty you have done a lot to expose little Davey as have Mike and many others. More and more people are leaving the C of $ all the time. I was contacted by four old acquaintances just this week who have left and are no longer supporting the little midget. Praise God.
Matt and Marty,
That would be cool. Kind of like the bulletin board they use in murder mysteries or organized crime org boards to get to the true henchman/murderer. We could also see how cheesey their operations really are.
Marty,
I love it how you have all this intell on OSA. It tells me that they don’t have very good security and not very good loyalty. All the signs of a dying organization.
What no connection between Pellicano and Cruise?
Connelly must have fed Morton this disinfo which means that Hamel made an end run on that potentially embarrassing revelation.
If that had been included in Morton’s book it would have certainly made it more interesting read than it was.
One thing you gotta admire about Hamel though is that she is a pro at running agents and actually makes OSA look competent.
Just as Mike did before he left.
Hopefully she might have a cognition and direct her considerable espionage skills at the correct target.
LINDA HAMEL.
CO OSA INT ALWAYS HEAD OF INTELLIGENCE IN OSA.
Former GO program OPs..
Always familiar with the Dark and Dirty side, sees and implements the OSA programs to take out CHURCH ENEMIES.
She lives and breathes the deepest Secrets of the more SHADY,. the more DARK, . the more CRIMINAL . side of the “CHURCH.”
I think Media and Law enforcement should know that current CO OSA INT, is simply one of the more shady OLD Guardian’s office personnel.
What a load of codswallop the declaration from the “CHURCH” that the old GO were a bunch of *CRIMINALS* and that the Church has turned a new page and they are all gone ! .
Linda Hamel was as deep into it as anyone, Paulette Cooper, Snow White, the breaking in to Government Offices, the ANONYMOUS phone calls to Law enforcement in attempt to MAUNFACTURE salacious criminal acts of their ENEMIES.
LO and BEHOLD, with expertise from the GO in running Black Operations, she has been CO OSA INT for the some 5 years or more ~~ to running OSA for David Miscavige !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wrote about Linda Hamels’ amazing survival on this very blog months ago.
What a sweetheart relationship, her and Miscavige ~~ it defies reality.
Everyone around Miscavige is PURGED, BEATEN, RELEGATED to SP Hole (even DM’s own wife has vanished for some years undoubtedly getting North Korean re-indoctrination and daily SEC CHECKS) ~~
but LINDA HAMEL lives on. Untouched.
Linda Hamel never hits the skids, never is removed, never hits the dust, never gets RPFd.
What do we have here ?
We have a woman who knows the EVIL. We have a woman who is privy to all the WEB reports and knows the PSYCHOTIC BRUTE that she works for..and she keeps doing it !
The Leopard does not change its stripes….
More OSA OPERATIVES.
Thanks to Anonymous for sharing ~~
3 OSA Operatives stayed on the phone the full 2 hours to butt into Marc Headley’s Programe. Here’s who they are ~~
QUOTE >>>>>>>
One identified herself as “Mary.” Her real name is Lisa Lirones. When she was at the Int Base she was known as Lisa Dawn Huber. She worked at the Int Base for years and was one of David Miscavige’s favorites until she got on his bad side. As soon as he stopped treating her like a queen, she blew the base never to return. She left the Sea Org and is now trying to get back in good standing. She works as a graphics/website design artist in Michigan. As part of her A-E steps, she posts regularly on the internet as “Louanne”. And yes, she still always wears those dorky rainbow iridescent sunglasses that you can get at the local gas station for $4.99.
The second guy who called in was John “Willow” Willoughby. He also used to work at the Int Base. He was David Miscavige’s personal chef. He also blew the Int Base. He lives in California and works with OSA to get intel from people that have left. He reports in to OSA and helps them to keep tabs on former Int Base staff.
The third and last OSA caller was John Carmichael from New York. Most people know his story.
(He was kind of gross in that interview where he put his face 3″ away from told a demonstrator “I smell Pussy”) How very religious of a minister !
Greasy, slimy yuck! Connolly, Pellicano, Barresi. Miscavige, Davis, Hamel.
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.
Yeah cool game, Reverse Technology Centre already has such a board with Marty and you on top. I’m gonna donate my picture, see if they accept it.
FOR,
VAMPIRE IDEA, the personality which absorbs the life and lives on the life of others. Tech Dictionary
John Conolly, an alledged journalist, working for Miscavige. Welcome to the truth, John.
I heard an earlier similar story from former German cult critic Renate Hartwig. She wrote a book with the ”assistance” of a journalist. Later she found out that this journalist was with the cult. The book contained lots of legal traps. After publishing the book Hartwig would face legal action by the cult.
At that time she had only 3 weeks left to deliver the book to the publisher. She gave that journalist the boot and started her book from scrap. It was called ”scientology – I accuse” and got on a famous best seller list for many months. The first 15000 books were sold within a few weeks.
Epic fail for the cult’s journalist.
Great!
Tell them I love to see them on this blog: they’ll have instant new friends, many!
Correct targets? Not ever gonna happen, not even in jail due to mutual out ruds.
Karen,
Don’t forget Lou Stuckenbrock who has also slid through the cracks for years and years too unscathed like a snake in the grass. She slipped right into the #2 spot without blinking an eye.
Marty, you are like a rabbit out of a hat! This is what I meant some time ago when I said 3 Card Marty; DM comes up short every time. He needs to just get out of the game, it’s way over his head.
South America??
Centurian, Supere Aude (and others) for your spot on contributions. I’m tellin ya…
And Karen #1—you got some style, Lady. Always enjoy your comments.
Renate Hartwig soon afterwards wrote another Book, in which she corrected all the accusations, telling her readers, it was no more than that, accusations, but they all turned out to be false! I persuaded her to write that book, to fix the damage, she might have done with the other Book. I received an autographed copy of it. The Book is called: “Die Schattenspieler”. Read it.
Ian Punnet, the C2C host that interviewed Mark last Saturday said he’d been hearing rumours that John is toying with leaving.
Hopefully it wouldn’t be too complicated for him.
Friend,
Ouch. Tha’s a nasty spiral to dwindle down. Waaaaay down.
Hey, Linda, and NOT to be facetious, Scientology applied correctly CAN handle that. You know this. Do it. It’s much better when you do, much, much, much, much better. You CAN be happy.
Jim
Centurion,
What’s that ref on ‘when you take my picture down’? You know the one that covers emptying orgs.
Here’s another, PL 7 April 69 ORG REDUCTION OR ERADICATION. A few salient points:
“1. Leave the Executive Council unfilled as posts.
2. Assign it or its Executive Council or principals an unreal and vicious
condition.
3. Combine the Day org with its Foundation.
4. Deny it the right to promote.
5. Involve it in insolvency such as running up huge debts.
6. Use policy to stop.
7. Inhibit initiative.
8. Reward downstats and punish upstats.
9. Give Scientology and Dianetics a hard sell and then let tech go out and
fail to deliver so that the org gets attacked.
10. Pretend that “we don’t entirely agree with Hubbard,” at which, by actual
test, the public leaves it alone in droves.
11. Extend heavy credit and leave cash-paying pcs to struggle to get service
in a Tech Div overloaded with freeloaders.
12. Change prices on the public.
13. Fail to give service in general.
14. Use the org just to get materials and Worldwide service for use by a
small clique.
15. Let somebody hang around who is trying to get the staff to engage in
some other “remunerative” action.
16. Fall for the line that it should be run as a business on business methods
instead of Scientology policy.
896
17. Violate the tech/admin ratio.
18. Use ethics suppressively.
19. Use hard ethics on the public.”
You could checklist these and find every violation, all those things that per Data Series 5 are “all the “”facts” you protest in life and ridicule or growl about are all one or another of the outpoints.”
I like the IAS one, #15. Geez Dave…duh! Or how about the point just before, #14 – the Basics one and making the FSO, the highest priced place in Scn, the place only affordable by a select ‘clique’ of high-rolling IAS Patrones.
Good move Dave, put your picture on the mag ‘celebrating’ LRH. Duh!
Oh yeah, the key point for me, #10:Pretend that “we don’t entirely agree with Hubbard,” at which, by actual test, the public leaves it alone in droves.
GAT, three swing FNs arising from a forged HCOB written by DM. The books. The list of ‘we don’t entirely agree with Hubbard’s’. That’s gotta be the kicker.
Geez, Dave…duh!!!
JM: Fleas… Or rabies?
Karen #1,
John Carmichael, hmmmmmm…he’s one of the guys that wrote to me early on, like last year sometime. He blew off, with a nattery flair, when I gave him a list of LRH refs to read. Hmmmmmm. Not the reaction I was thinking a Scientologist would have to reading LRH. Hmmmmmm. Curiouser and curiouser.
BTW, here’s John Connolly himself at http://www.thedailybeast.com/author/john-connolly/. A real you-scratch-my-back-and-I’ll-scratch-your-back reciprocation expert. Standard op for “journalists” (with air quotes)? Yes. Standard op for journalists (without air quotes)? No.
With regard to disinfo specialists, there has been much written about their tactics. Some interesting takes are at http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html (“Twenty-five Ways to Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation”) and http://www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html (“Eight Traits of hte Disinformationalist”).
BTW, I’ve long observed that those who flap their gums the most are often not those who they hope you think they are.
JM
You can send pics and info to webmaster@freeheber.com. They’ve made a good start on this at freeheber.com.
These goomba’s get special search engine “treatment” so people can easily find them. haha.
(google Elliot Abelson or Dave Lubow for example)
Pics and data as listed in this post by Marty, are much appreciated by the web dev team at freeheber. Pics especially are welcome. Some of these toolbags have been very adept at keeping themselves away from camera lenses and they need some light shown on them.
Snowhite , you persuaded her to write that book ? BS !!!!!!
Here is – for the german readers what she is saying about it.
http://www.renatehartwig.de/rueckblick.html
WE , WHERE ARE YOU ??
Karen:
As Jeff said, Lisa Lirones was one of the most hated people on the Int Base (only exceeded by Lisa Schroer?).
She was one of DM’s pets while the books were being done as she was the book designer (and competent at that). She had bad leg inflammation problems and DM was terrified she would develop a DVT (deep vein thrombosis) which was the cause of death of Lisa McPherson. So, he had the org buy her a personal golf cart (presented to her as his personal “gift”) and she was allowed to work half days (basically set her own schedule). Because she was a DM pet, she treated her juniors and anyone else around her like utter pieces of shit and was widely resented for it.
Then, after the book designs were done DM didnt need to coddle her any longer, and she started being treated like everyone else. She became disaffected real quick and blew.
Now someone has persuaded her to “make good” (no doubt canceled her freeloader debt and some other pot-sweeteners) and she can say “Miscavige gave people gifts, and I know that people (me and him only) got plenty of sleep and we had a great life….” Gag. Yeah, it was SOOO wonderful, she blew (I am not sure, she may have been recovered right away and then routed out because the book designs were done and she was a potential flap with her legs and messed up case/”disaffection”.)
She is a real piece of work. Anyone who knew her at the Int Base will no doubt recall her as one of the most unlikable people they have ever had the misfortune to meet.
Karen,
John Willoughby, unlike Lisa Lirones, is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.
He lives in Riverside and works as a truck driver.
I suspect he is doing this to try and protect the line to his kids…
RJ
In response to my question on yesterday’s post about the book “Bare-faced messiah” you said it was, I believe, grossly inaccurate. (I’ll be reading that “Sex and Rockets” thank you.)
Bare-faced messiah’s author, Russell Miller, who no doubt had his agenda, mentions that Ron was married to both Polly and Sara at the same time. He points out, just as the New Yorker’s Wright did last week, that there is no record of a Commander Thompson ever existing in the U.S. Navy during the years mentioned by Ron. Also that no one was ever located who ever saw the “Excalibur” manuscript. These are things that I as a longtime Scn’t and former staff member have never heard before.
I don’t give two shits that Ron may have embellished his pre-1950 life but I would like to know WHAT he embellished. I fully appreciate the need for him to bolster credentials and entertainment for those who can’t simply evaluate the tech on its own and may need some aesthetic seduction. My interest is NOT to uspet anyone on my possible altered importance on the subject of Ron. I simply blow-down on finding out the truth about his life experience, warts and all.
So is there a source of data about Ron, outside the Church, that you could recommend?
Does anyone know who was behind Russell’s writing of “Bare-faced Messiah”?
(I looked at “Madman or Messiah” and it was obviously a tirad of absurd lies, even to my thirsty eyes.)
Thanks.
More on Anthony Pelicano:
How about #19? This is now the main specialty.
A rather base question. Is Linda Hamel a hottie or something? To what extent does DM surround himself with hot chicks (assuming he’s into that), and to what extent is that “relationship” abused? It’s one area that people are either reticent to talk about, or simply doesn’t exist in the first place. I’m just curious.
Also known in the auditing world as a ‘theta suck’.
Jimmy – HCOPL The “Magic” of Good Management.
ML Tom
Well, you have probably condemned yourself to a lifetime of mystery if you have a need to know what LRH “embellished” about his own lifetime. The records are so old and so much effort has been made on either side of the spectrum (to deify him on the one end, and villify him on the other) for so many decades that no irrefutable proofs will ever be settled one way or the other. The major defect I saw in Wright’s New Yorker piece was an evident effort on his part to paint LRH as having made fraudulent representations, and he shaded his presentation to leave that impression.
Here’s some additional footage from the Int base…
Carl Von Clausewitz – “A great fire attains quite a different heat from several small ones”
It’s my opinion that the Cof$ is internally creating “small” fires with every seedy action it undertakes to intimidate and obsessively suppress and control everything and everyone.
These “small” fires are now speading in the field like wild fire as more and more Scientologists flee from the blazing inferno.
Ahhh I can see it now – the landscape dotted with independant small fires burning brightly. What a warm feeling.
Hi Mike,
I am always impressed on how you stay so calm dealing with all the backstabbers and sycophants from the church of miss cabbage.
Brilliant!
Mat, This relates to an older blog re the dm birthday and Xmas presents. I spoke with someone who was on Treasury lines at the HGB and the “presents” were taken from their pay prior to disbursement with no choice allowed when this person was in the area for a couple of years.
You’re really a funny joker !
Hahahahah
Got it.
The New Yorker prides itself on being expert fact-checkers. What I hear you say, if I might, is that there are certain points in LRH’s story that can NEVER be confirmed so therefore to assume he lied is denying him the benifit of the doubt.
But I’m refering to their own fact-checking logic, such as the omitted datum of Commander Thompson’s U.S. Navy existance. And that’s where I get sucked into the mystery of what else did he lie about.
On a happier note, my life was salvaged more than once by some auditing a long time ago. And my dynamics have benefited immeasurably by my use of Scientology. I don’t have a mystery on the tech.
But I guess I’ve held certain stable data on what a human can do – from hearing all of the larger than life anecdotes regarding LRH. And no doubt some of them are true.
Thanks for this Marty. Later.
Dabblers in invest/intel are dead agents fast and cause irreparable damage, (for the org/gov they work for). Really funny *lool
Sounds like she’s the J. Edgar Hoover Dirt I/C of SCN management. Either that or she gives a hell of a hummer, like Edgar too, from what I’ve read. Maybe both, again just like Edgar.
Security at Gold already has a thick binder, with photos and descriptions of SP’s and critics. Funny that you mention it, it’s actually called the “Rogues Gallery” and sits right there in the main booth with Danny and Murphy. It’s updated regularly by the photos that come in from PI’s. I remember that the portion for Jesse Prince had several (recent at the time) candid photos of Jesse Prince. From my take on it, Jesse was probably unaware that photos were even being taken of him. When I was an MAA, the main booth was kinda like the water cooler for Security and Dept 3 personnel to chat it up and exchange notes. The Rogues Gallery was akin to our newspaper or entertainment rag to keep up to snuff on what those evil SP’s were up to.
This is so true. A few years ago I got a call from an Investigator doing a story on Scientology, that he could then sell his references and information to a real
bona fide Investigator. That struck a Red Flag right away. Then he went on to ask me a series of questions and he asked that what I would be willing to say about all the Celebrities that I had worked with at CCINT, and also for years later, I FSM’ld them. He had already spoken to Karen Pressley. (Another former President of CCInt) First I traced back to the supposed “referral” of this individual” and found that was a lie. He mentioned that there is no way an investigative reporter would share his sources with others. Then I called Karen and we conversed about our questions we were asked, and it soon became clear that this “reporter” had asked me only about the Celebs that I knew it was an op. I wanted to continue to be in touch with this guy and feed him what we knew would freak them out. But Karen was so Angry she just outed him. I was also in touch with another investigator
a real one, and he told me that OSA had used similar ruses in their actions against the IRS.
A few months later, or before, I was called by a “student” who was doing research and he had some Questions to ask me. He gave me the name of his advisor and her phone number and the college he was from. So, I said OK,
I will do your survey. We got thru about 5 questions and then he began to ask me questions in the format the LRH had invented. These were not survey tools that were known to the public, my blood ran cold, and I knew I was talking to OSA, so I continued the survey, knowing it was an OSA Op.
And yes, I do know a lot of things about a lot of celebrities that I “shouldn’t Know”, from the availability of their PC folders to me – both at Int and CCInt.
But I won’t mention any personal information that we discussed, not because I have a Priest/Parishioner rule, but just because there is so much trouble with being famous and the people that sold out to tabloids, these people to me were not “Celebrities” they were my friends. There are many Celebrities who have dabbled in Scientology for a while. I will never out the ones that haven’t outed themselves.
during those years, and with Karen, they asked her only about the ones with
Celebs during her years as an FSM.
But their research into what Karen and I would say to a reporter about these various celebs was what they were trying to find out. Find out how much of a threat we were, both of us knowing so many intimate Details of Celebs personal lives. They have no ethics in “outing” anyone they care too, and they were thinking that Karen and I would be just like them.
Nancy
I’m with you Karen. How Linda escaped the RB mission at USGO is beyond me. A lot of orders for B&Es and other crim ops lead to her doorstep. She was quick to pass those bucks to her seniors and let them take the heat. She especially implicated MSH.
Shady girl indeed. She appears “theta” but she likes that dark side. Oh my.
ML Tom
Hey Mike, I agree, John Willoughby was always a stand up guy and fun to work with. What’s sad is that when I wanted to route out of the SO, just like his son Arepa at the time, we were both held at OGH for months and months and months with no outside contact whatsoever. It was essentially a miniature RPF. For me, I didn’t have any family on the base and it still killed me that I couldn’t talk to my mom or sister who were literally 2 hours away in Los Angeles. For Arepa, his parents were right there on the base, and they wouldn’t come up to talk to him. Why would a parent even put up with that? As a dad, I would have punched people’s lights out to be able to speak to my son, and if I knew my child was put into an abusive situation, all hell would break lose. It’s very telling in how deep and how thorough people can be controlled into allowing abuses to occur – even to their own family members. But that’s something that John failed to mention while on Coast to Coast. The other really crazy aspect of this is that Lisa Lirones Huber was also at OGH with us for a couple months at that time because she wanted to leave the SO. Her leg problem had really been flaring up at the time, and she required constant MLO attention. That was back in early 2000, so even by then she was already becoming disaffected with COB (like many of us were) and how she was being treated. She was known to throw major tantrums, scream in the faces at her juniors and other PDO staff, and even threaten to walk off post if she didn’t get compliance or cooperation as she was always working directly on COB’s lines in some way or another. For quite some time, I think Lisa was COB’s favorite person on the base. She was exempt from many of the activities we were all required to do such as reno’s, cleaning stations, reporting to musters, missing staff meetings, etc… because she was always working on something for COB. I didn’t know that she was out until this radio program, but as I knew her very well, I can confirm that that was her for sure. That accent and her “sugar sweet” voice gives it all away. Thanks Lisa for lying your ass off and making yourself look ridiculous.
Perfect, Mat. So dead-on perfect. 🙂
Mike,
John Willoughby surprised me with his call to put in his two cents (if it was worth that) on Coast to Coast. Marc knew him right away as John has that Kiwi accent & his message to listeners was totally ineffective.
His wife Brigitte used to be my assistant personal Chef to Dear Leader. They told me they lived in San Bernadino and John lied about calling from Rancho Cucamonga on the air. John is not a Chef but used to own a restaurant and knows the food biz. The two took over the DM personal Chef post after I left for the next 3 years, until they also had enough tried to route out and blew.
The two were involved in the “bad shrimp” debacle with Lana whereby Tom Cruise was ill and got food poisoning while staying at BV. Apparently John had called Lana at the galley to defrost some shrimp and between that & the finished food being kept warm for too long before serving by the Household unit steward resulted in a big flap where a doctor had to be brought in to treat Tom Cruise. Lana was offloaded to the PAC RPF for the flap.
I had been talking to them for a few years – one thing of interest is that they would not give any personal details (no email address) nor meet up other than a shared coffee the first time we met. Answers to questions were pretty vague/no answer type of affairs needing a lot of TR3. There were also some things he told me which made no sense such as having some personal stuff at the Int Base which they were going to pick up and so forth which there was no answer to some time later. Invitations to meet, Thanksgiving dinner or have lunch were always turned down.
Both of John’s kids (with Ana, Kiwi ex-wife) grew up at the Castile Canyon ranch which most of us called “Happy Valley”. John’s eldest son Arepa was the CO of the Cadets and routed out of the SO shortly after graduating. The younger daughter Kirimoana was sent to Flag among most of the cadets prior to Happy Valley being disbanded, RPF offloaded to Flag & Pac and property sold off to the Soboba Indians. The Indians renovated the property: http://www.theoaksatsoboba.com/
Kiri recently routed out and according to John lives in LA. She is on FB and most of her friends include those who grew up drinking Kool Aid at the Happy Valley kids ranch. It’s very interesting that a large number of these kids whose parent(s) were at the Int Base are out and kept drinking the red beverage! As they are connected to the Maori’s of NZ according to John, Kiri was going to business school, financed by the tribe.
John called me a day or so after category 7 storm New Yorker hit and was pumping data from me. It was notable as he didn’t call very much at all and the reason he gave was that he was going to NZ this Thursday for a month’s vacation. I do also think that the leverage the cult has on him is that the youngest daughter’s lines – her mother is still at the Int Base.
I do agree that John’s one of the nicest guys around, but it’s an extreme disappointment to find out that he’s addicted to Kool Aid and thus a Spi for OSA, pretending to be an old friend.
When Heber Jentzsch was jailed in Spain, we were in frequent communication.
Linda Hamel found out about this and interviewed me in a small room at BIG BLUE the main building
She pretended FRIENDSHIP while she debriefed me of every word back and forth “in an effort to help.”
I don’t know what she debriefed to Miscavige but Heber was thrown under the BUS,
summoned to INT when back from Spain
and put through HELL from Miscavige.
HELL and I mean HELL.
Out of jail and into the hands of MISCAVIGE !
Worse than Spanish Jail system !
( I was already out of the SO and Heber was given a SEVERE REALITY ADJUSTMENT for maintaining the comm line with me)
I have the debriefs from blown RTC and others.
I have experienced LINDA HAMEL * up close and personal*
Lana’s story was covered earlier on this blog at: https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/thats-what-im-talkin-about/#comments She has since gone quiet to keep the peace as the husband still drinks Kool Aid.
Fleas, rabies and Distemper!
If J.T. is seeking to live with the truth, how can we help him strip away the complexities and get outta there? Who here is an OL for him? What a coup it would be for us — us, meaning humankind, as Steve H. so well put it.
Dear Mike,
Valuable input.
Did you actually HEAR what Lisa Dawn Huber/ Lisa Lirones said ~~ The TISSUES of LIES spouted was incredulous. She fooled no one.
+++++INT BASE was a happy place !
+++++Lots of good meals ~~ hot food !
+++++Medical paid for immediately !
+++++Miscavige was KIND, BENEVOLENT, a warm and fuzzy SWEETHEART oozing support to one and all
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then she blew it by stating Marc was saying these things to sell a book and win a Law suit and totally turned the Moderator/Host against her whereupon he called her an OSA STOOGE/A PLANT/AN Operative.
By the way she lives in Indiana not Michigan as mentioned above.
Actually, her first book _was_ challenged in court. Several parts (including one about a crazy woman who claimed to have a child from Miscavige) had to be blackened or removed. Additionally, jointly with the publisher, she had to pay up money to a Scientology attorney whom she had libelled as being part of a “murder plot” against her.
Many years later, after being ostracized by all reputable german critics and the media, she wrote a book claiming to “expose” these critics. (The person Hartwig hates most is Caberta, Gandow is next, and then Heinemann – all whom are still active Scientology critics) That book was rather weird, although the rumor is Scientologists loved it.
The rumor is that she made some sort of “settlement” or “peace agrement”, but this is just a rumor.
Sinar, just to clarify something about Arepa, he was an MAA in Gold from the time I arrived at the base in late 1990 and held mainly HCO posts until I left in 2000. He and I were at OGH and routing out at the same time. I’m not sure if he actually routed out at that time because I had to figure out a different route of escape – I lied and said that I was handled and wanted to go back onto a post. Later blew from berthing when my restriction was lifted. A whole story in and of itself.
I wasn’t going to mention this, but since you brought up the strange happenings with John not giving you any contact details, Arepa actually called me about 2 months ago to see how I was doing and what I was up to. He said that he’s lived in Austin, Texas for a while and was playing guitar and stuff like that. I asked him for a phone number or email address that I could reach him at and he said that he didn’t have one, and that he was talking to me from a phone he borrowed from his friend which I found very strange. I haven’t heard back from Arepa, but this is quite odd that both he and John are showing up out of the blue. Very interesting indeed.
I don’t mean to derail this thread. But today people are protesting in Iran and also in Bahrain, where they’re chanting, “We’re not Sunni. We’re not Shiite. We just want to be free.”
What someone’s threshold for suppression varies from person to person, from culture to culture. But it seems pretty damned obvious that when that limit has been crossed, people just won’t take anymore. They will blow, resign, sit down on a bus seat and refuse to move, or light themselves on fire in protest.
To everyone still in the Co$, what is your tipping point? Where is the threshold that the Co$ may not cross without losing your affinity and allegiance? Has it already been crossed?
Just Me
I’ve been following your mission for quite some time, and have been hesitant to speak up because I am not part of Scientology. However, the more I read and learn about DM and his evil ways, I can no longer restrain myself. I am appalled that this is happening right under our noses and I commend/applaud/respect and admire every one of you for taking a stand, and doing the right thing.
I am reminded of one of my favorite quotes:
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” -Mark Twain
I currently live in the mid-west, but will be relocating to the Clearwater area in the near future. Anything I can do to help- just let me know.
God Speed to you all
Kris
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=82101&postcount=14
Thought I’d cross-post this from ent.org, is that ok?
If not, lemme know and I’ll delete the list, immediately.
Wow, how the list has shrunk!
And wonder who thinks Mary DeMoss is hot?! She’s definately not ugly, but never woulda thought of her as hot, lol.
Office of Special Affairs – International (Los Angeles)
Linda Hamel (Invest Aide HFA)
Kirsten Caetano – OSA (hottest woman in OSA)
Kathy O’Gorman – Data Chief
Tom Whittle – Freedom Editor/Writer
Acky Heinrich – PR
Joan Long – External Estab
Karin Pouw – PR Aide
Ed Parkin – VP (now a PR and out of Legal)
Bob Adams OSA, VP PR something
Charlie Earl – Invest
Jim Morrow – Legal Aide
Judy Ross – External DSA Programs
Jeanne Gavigan – Litigation (she’s a real attorney)
Nora (french name?) – MAA for OSA
Celine Muir – french girl – Dir I&R
Lynn Farney – Internet PR and does all DA’s for anything
Jean Callaghan – holds reception
Steffano Beccaccini – External Comm functions, still does driving up- lines for delivery, etc.
Wendy Beccaccini – PR
Beth Bond – Treasury functions
Neil O’Reiley – Private Investigations
Office of Special Affairs -Eastern United States
TIM LOMAS – CO OSA EUS
TONI CHRAMBANIS – D/CO EXTERNAL OSA EUS
BEV MCPHEE – SOCIAL REFORM AIDE OSA EUS.
Route Outs
Mary DeMoss (second hottest woman in OSA)
Nancy O’Meara
Leisa Goodman
Michael Rinder
John Carmichael (needs confirmation)
By contrast, here is the list from 1994 provided by another user in this thread.
Quote:
Shaun Allen OSA INT T/Dir I&R
Joelle Aoudai OSA INT HCO Expeditor J.A.
Gail Armstrong OSA INT T/PR Aide
Sara Asay OSA INT T/Data Analysis Officer
Brian Asay OSA INT T/Freedom Researcher
Attila Balazs OSA INT T/Computerized Files I/C
Leanne Barram OSA INT T/Legal Preps Projects Off
Glenn Barton OSA INT T/Interfaith Coordinator
Janet Beatty OSA INT Data Requests I/C
Wendy Beccaccini OSA INT Wendy Beccaccini
Stefano Beccaccini OSA INT
Debbie Blair OSA INT T/Drug Reform Coord
Thomas Boelsterli OSA INT T/FOIA Requests I/C
Beth Bond OSA INT T/RAM Chief
Terry Brawley OSA INT HCO Expeditor
Maryse Breuer OSA INT Maryse Breuer
Geoff Brown OSA INT
Leslie Browning OSA INT
Klaus Buchele OSA INT Klaus Buchele
Sarah Burrough OSA INT T/Chief MAA
Marcia Callaghan OSA INT T/TM Lic & Usage Off
Jean Carnahan OSA INT T/Data Collection Officer
Allan Cartwright OSA INT
Angel Casillas OSA INT
Sheila Chaleff OSA INT Sheila Chaleff
Carla Cohen OSA INT T/PR Pubs/Props Dist Off
Pascal Cottier OSA INT T/Cont/Sect Inv Hand Off
Kathy Del Amor OSA INT
Audrey Devlin OSA INT Audrey Devlin
Joan Diskin OSA INT Joan Diskin
Lillian Doyle OSA INT
Charlie Earl OSA INT T/Invest O/O
Lynn Farny OSA INT Lynn Farny
Ellen Farny OSA INT T/Litigation Files I/C
Eunice Ford OSA INT T/Tax Compliance Admin I/C
Nancy Gahwiler OSA INT Enhancement Sec
Marina Garvin OSA INT PCO
Dan Garvin OSA INT T/Data Computerization I/C
Jeanne Gavigan OSA INT T/Transactional Attorney
Samantha Gibson OSA INT
Mr. Roman Giessauer OSA INT T/CO’s Pgms Op
Luis Gonzalez OSA INT Luis Gonzalez
Leisa Goodman OSA INT
Howie Gutfeld OSA INT T/Defensive Lit I/C
Sandy Guthrie OSA INT
Grace Marie Haddy OSA INT T/FOIA I/C
Mr. Linda Hamel OSA INT Mr. Linda Hamel
Evanie Hamilton OSA INT T/Fax I/C
Jerry Hanlon OSA INT Jerry Hanlon
Christine Harris OSA INT
Caroline Heinrich OSA INT T/Internal PR Officer
Aky Heinrich OSA INT T/Social Reform Aide
Anne Hogarth OSA INT
Sheldon Hogarth OSA INT
Maddie Hooper OSA INT T/Attorney Services
Bee Huber OSA INT
Mr. Gavino Idda OSA INT T/Legal Pgms Exec Off
Gloria Idda OSA INT Gloria Idda
Doug Jacobson OSA INT
Kirsten Jarry OSA INT
Mr. Heber Jentzsch OSA INT T/President CSI
Frida Johannsson OSA INT T/Disbursements Chief
An Johonnesson OSA INT
Joyce Kelly OSA INT T/Legal Preps Chief
Lee Kemp OSA INT
Frits Kevenaar OSA INT see skeds
Jacqueline Kevenaar OSA INT T/OSA NW Training Off
Bodo Krauss OSA INT
Anne Labourdique OSA INT T/Cont/Sect Staff Security I/C
Giovanna Landini OSA INT
Teo Laus OSA INT T/TMI Handling I/C
Vincent Lefevre OSA INT HCO Expeditor
Mr. Sue Lerner OSA INT Purser
Nancy Levin OSA INT
Neil Levin OSA INT
Ken Long OSA INT Ken Long
Joan Long OSA INT T/Legal Safeguard Exec Off
Chris Marchant OSA INT
Eugene Marsh OSA INT T/Tax Preps
Shelby Martinez OSA INT T/US PR Pgms Exec I/C
Aron Mason OSA INT Aron Mason
Lara McFadyen OSA INT
Lea McFarland OSA INT
Olaiya McGauhey OSA INT Olaiya McGauhey
Nick McNaughton OSA INT Nick McNaughton
Brian Mills OSA INT
Andrew Milne OSA INT T/PR DA Writing I/C
Donna Morrow OSA INT T/CSI Invest Officer
Mr. Jim Morrow OSA INT TT/ax Compliance Off
Carol Nelson OSA INT Carol Nelson
Jackie Nelson OSA INT T/Librarian
Carol Oakes OSA INT
Mr. Kathy O’Gorman OSA INT T/Data Chief
Nancy O’Meara OSA INT
Kei Omura OSA INT
Neal O’Riley OSA INT T/CSI Spec Handling Off
Ed Parkin OSA INT Ed Parkin
Rita Parkin OSA INT
Philippe Pedersen OSA INT T/Data Distribution Officer
Mariano Pedersoli OSA INT T/Msn Ops
Peola Pedersoli OSA INT
Linda Peters OSA INT
Karin Pouw OSA INT T/PR Aide
Bonnie Rice OSA INT
Jo-Ann Richardson OSA INT T/Receptionist
Mr. Mike Rinder OSA INT T/CO
Scott Roland OSA INT T/Computer Input I/C
Judy Ross OSA INT T/Legal Preps Planning Officer
Mr. Carol Rush OSA INT
Linda Sarkovich OSA INT
Gigi Scudellari OSA INT
Anton Selfe OSA INT T/Freedom Writer A.S.
Lynne Shape OSA INT
Ben Shaw OSA INT Ben Shaw
Mr. Judi Shervell OSA INT T/PR Pgms Exec Off
Greg Shulman OSA INT
Krystal Simmons OSA INT T/Data Receipt & Logging I/C
Linda Simmons Hight OSA INT T/PR Periodicals Officer
Rhea Smith OSA INT T/Gov Reforms Pgms
Sandy Sternson OSA INT
Glen Stilo OSA INT T/Immigration Officer
QC Strom OSA INT
Colin Thorne OSA INT
Becky Turner OSA INT
Georgina Tweedie OSA INT
Abel Uemura OSA INT T/Litigation Atty’s Secretary
Mr. Janet Weiland OSA INT Mr. Janet Weiland
Mr. Kurt Weiland OSA INT T/D/CO
Liana Weiland OSA INT
Hyla Wetherill OSA INT T/Data Collection Off
Mr. Tom Whittle OSA INT T/Freedom Editor
Richard Wieland OSA INT T/Special Props Off
Comentary that goes with that list is not mine and the list is from the old home of protest Anons, Enturbulation.org.
Jim Logan ~~
The OSA DSA for New York is “Reverend John Carmichael” He has held that post for some 30 years.
You likely had a different John Carmichael in touch
Here’s the Reverend John Carmichael
saying “I smell pussy”.
How very Reverend of a Church of Scientology Spokesman …
Thank you Tom, OTDT, Jan, Mike Rinder and John Peeler.
Any Government document is available for a small fee
Freedom of Information Act.
The GO raid in 1977 took boxes and boxes and boxes of documents from the Guardian’s Office.
Here’s a A 54 page PDF file (2.5 MB) of GO drills on spreading rumours, third-partying etc. etc.
Click to access cg0nwmnsyf15uo2kofj.pdf
Guardian’s Office DRILL for Disinformation, Black OPs.
You can’t make this stuff up
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its Black…
Drill :
Recognizing basic effectiveness of plans. Take into
account effectiveness, security, legality, workability,
etc. when making your decisions. Chose which basic
plan is best.
1-. Order hundreds of dollars worth of liquor in
Jones’s name and have it delivered to his home
to cause him trouble and make the liquor store
owner dislike him.
2. Call up Jones’s boss and Accuse Jones of
being a homosexual.
3. Send Jones’s boss evidence of Jones accepting
bribes on his job, with copies to police and local
FBI.
b. General scene: a psychiatrist who has instigated
attacks on the org via police and press.
1. Expose his nazi background to the press with
evidence that he still attends local Nazi meetings.
2. Wake him up every night by calling him on the
phone and threatening him.
3. Send an FSM in to be a patient of his for a
year to disperse the psych during sessions.
c. General scene: a newspaper executive Clyde McDonald
who’s behind local attacks.
1. Poison him while he’s asleep so he’ll never
start another attack.
2. Make known to the paper’s owner that McDonald
is responsible for the paper’s decreasing advertising
revenues.
3* Spread a rumor around to the paper’s employees
that McDonald is a communist.
4. Put itching powder in McDonald’s clothes so he’ll
scratch himself all day, thus preventing, him from
writing a story.
d. General scene: 8 grammar school teacher who got
an applied scholastics grant cancelled and is con-
tinuing to causa trouble for ASI in other schools.
1. Cleverly kidnap her and run reverse processes
on her while implanting the phrase, “I will never
attack ASI again, I love ASI.”
2. Get copies of the court records where she was
found guilty ol child molesting and send a copy to
the scnool principal, board of education, and a
few school childrens parents.
3. ‘Send a male FSM in on her who, after she falls
in love with him, will get her to cove out of the
country with him.
4. Pay ten of her students to write dirty phrases
about her on the schoolroom blackboard.
e. General scene: a local Catholic bishop is causing
many local attacks on the org.
1. Send several FSMs over to the Catholic church
to svear at him in confessionals.
2. Connect him up to abortion end/or pornographic
activities.
•
J. Write the Pope an anonymous letter stating that
the bishop is really a rabbi under cover.
4. Spread a rumor around town that he’s against
air pollution.
Tom,
It wouldn’t surprise me that if one explored Linda’s deep dark past that there would be some connection to CIA or some other intel agencies.
That she burned Mary Sue is no surprise either.
Kinda reminds me of the spook “Sasha” covered in the book the ‘Secret History of the CIA’.
The other factor to take into account is that since TRUTH RUNDOWN Miscavige has systematically been paying off high level route outs with lots of bread, lots in exchange for continuing control and cooperation.
Kind of like the shrinking crew lists of the Idle Orgs…
Karen
Before that John Boy was B1 EUS and it wouldn’t be surprising to find his finger prints all over ‘Op Freak out’
Like Linda the boy’s led a charmed life probably because he knows precisely where all the bodies are buried.
In any event it exposes Miscavige’s lie that he eliminated the GO.
The only possible solace is that the ghost of the GO may return to haunt the rabid squirrel.
Snowhite claimed :
“Renate Hartwig soon afterwards wrote another Book”. Soon afterwards ? It was actually 8 years later !
An excerpt from this German website http://www.arztwiki.de/wiki/Renate_hartwig shows the actual facts :
1994 Hartwig’s book “Scientology: I accuse”
1994 Hartwig’s book “Scientology: time bomb in economy”
2001 Hartwig’s book “Scientology: the plot and the cronies”
2001 Hartwig’s book “targeted by Scientology”
2002 Hartwig’s book “die Schattenspieler”
That’s 7 years of books against Co$. In this time period and even earlier Hartwig was a very vocal critic. She reported major OSA harrassments, infiltration etc. – and an offer of 2,000,000 DM ( about 1,3000,000 $ ) if she would leave Scientology alone. She even published a bi-monthly magazine about Co$, featuring Co$ business men, uncovering OSA agents etc.
Then – apparently out of the blue – she recanted. She wrote a book full of illogic claims that she had erred regarding Co$.
This was in 2002 ; 8 years after her first book “Scientology: I accuse”.
I have no doubt that she was “handled” one way or another.
What a coincidence. Not a scientologist but following the mission and now relocating to clearwater and looking to hook up. Its amazing. Small world. You simply must come over for a strategy session and some kefir.
But i did like the Mark Twain quote. Thanks for that.
John (and Ana) Willoughby are remembered with great fondness by those of us in ANZO who knew them. Hearing John’s attempted “handling” of what was being said by Marc just floored me.
I’m happy that he’s out of the SO but saddened by the possibility that he’s still actively stooging for the criminal cult.
C’mon, mate, I love you but, for God’s Sake, try to remember who you really are!
Ka mate, ka mate
Ka ora, ka ora
Tenei te tangata puhuruhuru
Nana i tiki mai whakawhiti te ra
Upane, upane
Upane kaupane
Whiti te ra.
Translation:
It is death, it is death
It is life, it is life
This is the hairy man
Who caused the sun to shine again for me
Up the ladder, up the ladder
Up to the top
The sun shines.
That has to be about 50% of all the staff in the cult of miss cabbage handling damage control. It would be great if one or two of them actually thought things out and could see that the ship is sinking.
Or it could be the passanger list of the Titanic.
Hi Loki-
Oh my. I’m not sure how to take your response? did I insult you in some way or am I just being sensitive?
The reason for following your mission? I have a very good friend who has been telling me about her experiences with Scientology in the 80’s as part of your Sea Org in the LA area. She and her husband escaped, and to this day after relocating to many different States throughout the U.S., they still get info from the church. It freaks her out, and freaks me out as well.
And since I will be moving to the Clearwater area (I am now an empty nester), I thought I would throw my hat into the ring and offer any help I can to provide people with a safe place to go to if needed. That’s all. Didnt mean to come across as being weird.
Believe it or not, I know many non-Scientologists who are following this website and hoping for nothing but good things for all of you.
Hey Snowhite,
Well I’m posting this to “fix the damage”. Take that!
Trying to get a Refund / Repayment?
For the IAS here’s one to use in CA.
http://ag.ca.gov/charities.php
http://ag.ca.gov/charities/eri.php#Location:SearchResults
Plug in their EIN number, just above the “search” button to get the exact name they go by. It’s very hard to find the name otherwise.
EIN number: 521840679
This complaint has to be printed out & mailed via the US Mail. Do it.
Note: If you were regged in Florida for IAS monies, I’d suggest you write to the two agencies below and skip Calif. Make sure you let them know that IAS doesn’t appear to be registered in FL despite raking in millions from their offices within the state.
For Flag or the Ship there are two agencies you can write to. Both are in Florida.
1. This one is under the State Attorney Gen’s office, Dept of Consumer Services, Bureau of MEDIATION & ENFORCEMENT.
http://www.800helpfla.com/complnt.html
Under Consumer Complaint Form click on “online form”. With this one you can submit it online and attach any docs.
Note: when you fill in this form, under each question, every time you add in another line of info it shrinks the print. By the time you’re done anyone reading it will need a magnifying glass. The best thing is to do is write on the form referring them to your attached complaint.
Also, the form asks when you paid. If it’s a real old date, the form might not take it. Put today’s date and explain in your attachment.
2. The other one is the Pinellas County Consumer Affairs agency.
http://www.pinellascounty.org/consumer/
This is a good agency and is in the same county as Flag and the ship office.
Don’t worry about invoices that you may no longer have. The cult has the records and will send you copies as your cycle moves along. If you find unauthorized debits, you’ll request that money be given back to you.
Know this, you will get your repayment although sometimes they’re slow. Give them 3 – 4 weeks to write back with the routing form to get your money. If you don’t hear in that time frame, file a complaint with the agencies above. The cult HATES being on the radar of a gov agency. The key thing here is to get these requests into a gov file which is why you need to file with one of the above two agencies.
Dereliction of duty! LOL. Thanks for the nudge. I just posted in response to the OSA-bot.
Snowhite
So in effect you would like us to read “Die Schattenspieler” to convince us that the Church is an innocent victim of outside influence and attacks (as is the basic premiss of the book you are attempting to recommend).
Might I remind you that the church is the cause of any such attacks and if you are the seasoned Scientologist you claim to be, you may want to take in LRH’s advices in the matter:
HCOPL 7 February 1965 KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING
“The only thing you can be upbraided for by students or pcs is “no results.” Trouble spots occur only where there are “no results.” Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only where there are “no results” or “bad results”…
…So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It’s our possible failure to retain and practice our technology”
L. Ron Hubbard.
You and your buddy DM declaring to the world that the Church is under attack is merely an admission that you have failed utterly to Keep Scientology Working.
You are being reasonable. At best.
My thoughts also.
And even my “fear” (not really, I’d actually like this to be true), is that Connolly, or other of these convenient “spy” fake journalists are in fact under pay by the FBI and spying on Scientology (OSA).
Another reason to just evaporate OSA, and all of those people.
It’s NOT religion. It’s advanced “taking in one’s own laundry” and likely OSA is infiltrated via others, if not Connolly, who actually are keeping the FBI abreast of OSA’s dirty deeds!
I thought, well if Ingram gave the nod on Connolly, then what about Ingram?
Ingram is likely the best candidate of all to be slipping intel on OSA to the FBI!
What I’d like to see, is Connolly come clean.
If he can’t, then I fear he’s a mole for other people, and he’s been playing Scientology for someone else.
If Connollyl can’t expose what he’s done for Scientology, spying on me (since he’s been in constant touch with me, I’ll write in detail on my site once I hear back from John Connolly), but if John won’t expose Scientology, that means he’s got skeletons that Scientology hold over him, OR it means to me, John’s working also for someone ELSE, and that might be a good thing if John’s ALSO been basically spying on OSA and keeping the FBI abreast of what Scientology’s been using him for.
I’m personally FOR the FBI and US Justice Dept nailing Miscavige and OSA, and if it comes out that John’s actually helping in that zone, that’s about his only saving grace reason for him not being able to just expose him helping Scientology.
In any case, I left John Connolly a message on his phone, that if he’s in some way guilty of all the above Linda Hamel spying work, (which Marty’s confirmed the above IS true) then he should expose what he’s done. If he’s not at liberty to expose it, since he’s helping some other agency, and he might want to keep his relationship with Scientology, well to me, that is unfortunate.
LRH said covert operations were to always remain covert, all the way through.
Now that THIS is blown, I hope John details how he’s worked for Scientology, and I hope he has no major axes over his head preventing him exposing his working for Scientology.
He should just expose his whole OSA spying history as a press story.
That would get him a story sold, I think.
Chuck
Is this John Connolly any relation to the Jim and Kay Connolly in the SO?
In his defense he might mean by pussy somebody who is a coward
Does anyone have current info on Janet Weiland?
Very excellent thread Marty!
Thankyou.
And excellent comments on this thread also.
Lessons I’ve learned:
a) Fake journalists DO still work for OSA, so watch it, those who deal with journalists. (I’ll post in detail how I’ve been “taken” by John Connolly, going on 3-4 years now, he contacts me and get’s updates every month or less sometimes, from me, but no longer, thanks to this blog post and blowing this OSA operation.)
b) PI’s like Ingram are the ones who pushed on Marty, the John Connolly option in the first place and Linda Hamel’s been “using” John Connolly for a long time. So lesson here, is if one were in OSA, how the hell can they trust even Eugene Ingram. How does OSA know that Ingram and Connelly aren’t helping the Feds keep tabs on OSA?
c) Scientology, despite anything LRH said, should get the HELL out of the intel business. Disband OSA, just get rid of it. And I suppose DM is to thank for why Linda Hamel and the Bu 1 Intel stuff goes on, which doubly opens up official Scientology to infiltration from outside, but also the bigger problem is this 1984 spying by all the members on the ex members, it’s just NOT religion. GET RID OF ALL OF HUBBARD’S INTEL CRAP, PERIOD!!!
b)
Chuck your logic expressed as “What I’d like to see, is Connolly come clean. If he can’t, then I fear he’s a mole for other people, and he’s been playing Scientology for someone else” is utter illogic. Since when does the church of Scientology – AND PARTICULARLY ITS AGENTS – come clean on anything? Calm down man. Shit happens.
Posting your request on ESMB
Karen,
Having studied the Church Report transcripts about how the FBI used agent provocateurs as part of their COINTELPRO to setup and frame various organizations that were considered a “National Security Threat” that I wouldn’t be surprised if many of these “programs” weren’t initiated by informants and operatives working on their behalf.
Also *not all* documents from the FBI’s chain saw massacre have been released and made a matter of public record.
For instance Pat Price’s detailed accounts of his work for the Agency as a psychic spy are strangely absent.
Also Puthoff and Swann’s weekly reports to Yvonne about what was going on at SRI at the time have mysteriously vanished without a trace as well.
You can trust the FBI to make an accurate accounting of what was going on but frankly I don’t.
Especially after reading the spy fiction classic known as the “Stipulation of Evidence”.
Also I’m not a supporter of the GO was evil incarnate by evil incarnate himself agitprop.
In otherwords there are a lot of outpoints particularly omissions in these documents.
Chuck ~~
You are a dear friend~~ please do not take offense when I say
say that the above post is pure speculation.
You do not have one shred of evidence that John Connolly reported to the FBI.
You have not one shred of evidence that he will ever turn on the Church and “come clean ” with you or his spying for the Church of Scientology.
How much do you want to bet
CONNALLY WILL NEVER RETURN YOUR PHONE CALLS.
You were set up, it’s as simple as that.
Be good if we could get Connolly’s phone records over the years to see who he spoke to and how much he reported back to INVEST, OSA INT.
Joe Yanny comes to mind. He chose to lose his lawyer license and exposed the dirty stuff he was pushed into at Scientology’s direction.
There are ample numbers of the people pressured to lie for Scientology who’ve come clean.
You come to mind, Mike Rinder comes to mind.
Both of you lied for DM. And come clean on that.
There have been decades of ex staffers coming clean on doing harmful things as Scientologists.
Joe Yanny, as a Scientology lawyer came clean.
I think some PIs who did dirty immoral stuff for Scientology and now this opportunity for a “journalist” to come clean on any spying he’s done.
Nancy Many in her book came clean on her RTC/OSA spying on David Mayo’s group.
Patty Pieniadz did dirty DSA/OSA crap on Robert Minton, and she came clean and detailed all the stuff she did.
Christ, the whole thrust of most of the expose stuff on Scientology, is just people who were (and some continued to be) Scientologists finally saying whatever stupid stuff they were drawn into doing in their official Scientology roles was bad, and they realize it, and they detail it.
I want to just see any of the people lulled into OSA’s spying games and PI harassment games to expose what they did.
Getting RID of OSA would end a lot of this stupid stuff.
Then OSA wouldn’t hire PIs, OSA wouldn’t then get “FSMs” to do these immoral spying errands.
I mean if one really wanted to KSW fully OSA, I’d just cancel ALL of the OSA Network Orders, and disband OSA!
Then there’d be no OSA intel/covert ops/spying going on, to even come back and bite Scientology!
My point is, don’t hold your breath. Every major defector since Mike Rinder has been paid high five to low six figure numbers to stay on board. I guarantee you they’ll pay Connolly on the order of mid six figures to low seven figures to take a powder, or man the denial ramparts. The spy business is frequented by 1.1s. Plain and simple. Expecting them to grow wings of virtue is a bit naive.
We don’t need no stinking phone records. Stay tuned.
I tried to repley to Cat Daddy but I kept getting knocked off line. Anyway, I was interested to see the name of Mary DeMoss as working for OSA. I think this is the same woman who led a group of loons into the offices of the Lisa McPherson Trust one day. There is a video of that on YouTube. They acted like a bunch of confused carnival workers or some low Morris dancers who drank too much coffee. I am glad for her that somebody has found her attractive but I am a bit puzzeled as to what work, other than yelling and making faces, OSA could have found for her to do? If this is the same woman that is. BTW, I find this blog the best reading on the net.
RJ.
The GO had a lot of good staff members.
Not everyone in the GO was in the Black Ops /Intell Division.
The Paulette Cooper story was horrific. Even having a GO set up to the point of sexual intercourse with her.
The Frank Oliver FULL HAT gives current OSA network orders
Well thank god for you and Mike!
Thanks for NOT taking their filthy lucre.
And I’m sure there will be MORE principled persons who DON’T take the money, and will set history straight!
Sad sad sad.
Thanks for this blog, this is just a whole good new level of honesty and exposure.
Keep going!
No worries, you’re likely correct.
Marty privately said Connolly’s conned others, not just me, and that he’s almost as smooth talking as Ingram.
I knew Ingram was smooth, as Ingram smooth talked some other ex Int staff.
Some people have the gift of gab, and they can do wonders.
One lesson I learned from an Ian Halperin documentary movie “His Highness Hollywood”, was one Hollywood executive said, I paraphrase,
“If you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made.”
The lesson is these smooth talking fakes can really fake sincerity.
anyone can defect out of the bad OSA stuff and expose it.
Imagine Linda Hamel’s book: “Linda Hamel, Scientology Spy Chief, My Life and Times”
No.
John Connolly is a New Yorker, and not related to the Connolly’s who are from ANZO.
I know Karen,
I used audit GO staff including their covert operatives.
(You know the ones with no name on the folders and their names carefully redacted from the auditing reports with an Exacto Knife?)
Any Oliver’s OSA NW Ords are not the same as GODs particularly those issued by Ron or Mary Sue.
Maybe those issued by Kember, Budlong, Parkhouse, Miesner et al have similarities because it seems to be Dave’s job for some reason to maintain all destructive actions which includes running ops similar to “Freak Out” continually.
He’s a lying sack of shit when he says he eliminated the GO.
All he did was place it under his direct control and change its name to OSA so as to placate the authorities.
Of course we can see Miscavige’s capability as a “spy master” by the fact that Marty keeps blowing his ops.
My suspicion is that those involved in taking Scientology down looked around to find the most loud mouthed delusional and inompetent moron they could find and settled on David Miscavige as the perfect operative.
So far nothing has proven my working theory wrong.
The guy has “successfully” undermined Scientology beyond the capabilities of the combined efforts of various Government agencies in the past and even their allies abroad.
This guy is the perfect poison or Trojan virus.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=22123
feel free to sign up
Mark Bunker thought she was atractive too. I must ad he is very happy now with his beautiful girlfriend heather now.
Mark……. a full blown “crush”!!!
Chuck,
Personally I don’t see anything wrong with pure intelligence as opposed to espionage and covert ops which seems to be what OSA seems to be concentrating on these days.
Predicting which way cats were going to jump was the main function of the GO until Kember perverted it and directed it more towards espionage as opposed to simply intel collection and evaluation.
Basically a microcosm of what happened to the CIA under Dulles.
A good book to read is TimWeiner’s ‘Legacy of Ashes’.
Chuck said: If Connollyl can’t expose what he’s done for Scientology, spying on me (since he’s been in constant touch with me, I’ll write in detail on my site once I hear back from John Connolly), but if John won’t expose Scientology, that means he’s got skeletons that Scientology hold over him, OR it means to me, John’s working also for someone ELSE, and that might be a good thing if John’s ALSO been basically spying on OSA and keeping the FBI abreast of what Scientology’s been using him for.
There is another choice: Connolly is ON THE PAYROLL.
Another thing: Linda Hamel never going under the DM bus, and Lou – the oldest reason in the book. Same reason why NO U.S. President could ever get rid of J. Edgar – because he had FILES on them – like Linda has on DM, and I guess Lou too.
I don’t think they are going to think about “coming clean” necessarily – but I think it would be very satisfying if they turned States Evidence, to save themselves.
How about it, Linda, Lou? You can see where this whole thing is headed right? At least Linda can. You know it is IMPOSSIBLE to answer up and coverup for all the charges that will be leveled against DM and THOSE WHO AIDED AND ABETTED HIS CRIMINAL ACTIONS.
States evidence.
Kris. Offering a safe house for people who need it is very generous. Seems that it is more than compensating for the trauma your friend (who left more than 20 years ago) is experiencing by still receiving mail. Particularly since your not even a scientologist. May I learn generosity from you. Be sure to let Marty know your Clearwater address so he can send the SO escapees there for safekeeping. Your the best.
Re: Ingram. How does OSA know that Ingram and Connelly aren’t helping the Feds keep tabs on OSA?
Ingram has been in the employ of the dms church since circa 1985. In fact, bragged about to the point that his wifes interior designer was told by Mrs. Ingram that her husband was a top person in dms church.
People get their facts wrong – duh – but he was making $$$$ way back then.
IF he was helping the FEDS he’s done a p**ss poor job since it’s been over 25 years of his “help” and hmmmm we still have a mess.
I’m sure though Mr. Ingram has a REALLY nice mansion by now, multiple cars and maybe even traded in his wife for a newer model.
Rich men can do that 🙂
WH
Virg,
Check.
Chuck,
I’m with you on this one.
Personally I have no problem with the FBI taking down Dave.
The guy obviously failed to put in ethics on himself.
The Organization failed to get in his ethics and not only that but aided and abetted his injustices as well.
So now the rabid squirrel is in the FBI’s cross hairs.
Let’s say I’ll be cracking open a bottle of bubbly when they throw the book at the lil’ sucker even if he is only a patsy or dupe.
First Principle,
This is kind of redundant but I missed your thing yesterday on the book. You have, in the posts yesterday, and today, more concentrated factual data on the fallacy of that work by Miller than on any other site, blog, chat room, message board or any place in the whole wide world web.
It was a work of embellished quasit (just made that one up from the Latin, what, as in WTF). A bag of rattlesnake heads. I’d say Miller is a researcher manque. Ironic, that.
Read the book. Go back to the posts here in these past two days. Pull down the contrary facts, omitteds, the gamut of illogics as you need to to sort the thing out.
All I know is that LRH made a wonderful 27th President. The rest is tripe.
Sam,
Superbly written.
Kris,
You can get trained just outside Tallahassee. Go to Scn Cult and look up the training in the Independent Field. Good stuff.
Are Jim and Connelly still in the SO? Jim used to work at ABLE int, but then the last time I was there he was no longer there. I asked and got no firm answer on where he was. Kaye use to be an LRH PPRO for WUS I think.
A blatant plug for a new article on DM over on SaveScientology.com.
Panda, Agreed! After I was busted by COB off of the TTC and Dept 3 lines, I was posted in the galley at Gold for a while as a cleaner in MCI. This was after I spent about 6 months literally as a scum bag prisoner over at OGH. The galley was made up of mostly people who had been busted from other areas of the base, (the ones lucky enough to not be RPF’d) but we were a really tight group of friends. John and his current wife Brigitta were really great friends of mine at that time. That’s one thing about the Int base I will always miss, are the friends I had and how those of us who were friends, considered each other like family. The really messed up thing is that most people at the base who you feel this way about, will turn on you the instant you’re not with the program. It’s been a while now, but I still remember that feeling you get when one of your really close buddies gets shit canned, gets put in lowers or on the decks, gets Over Boarded, gets pushed around by other staff, gets berated in front of the crew, and made to feel like the scum of the Earth, sometimes for months or even years. There were those once great people who will forever be branded.
Arepa was also a really close friend of mine for quite some time, so I really hope that he’s just moving on with his life and not worrying about what OSA needs him to do for them. Arepa and the Willoughby’s don’t owe OSA jack shit.
Quite a few photos of OSA ladies to be found here:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/osababes/main.html
Unfortunately Lana has not just gone quiet, Sinar. She wrote an article on the Marty hate site under a topic called “A Different Perspective”
+1
I like your flow Mrs F of R.
Seems like a waste of manpower getting into childish skirmishes like this.
I would like to see Scientology have a little dignity in the world. Is that too much to ask?
FP,
It’s been many years since I slogged through Miller’s turgid and inept prose but I believe there is a bibliography though I think its more for window dressing than anything else because just cross-checking the actual transcripts of ‘Babalon Working’ reveals that Miller tends toward hyperbole.
Also this fools errand of tracking down Snake Thompson verges on the absurd.
Hubbard was supposedly quite young then and its possible he might have gotten the spelling of the name wrong or the name wrong entirely or the good Commander was operating under an alias or its possible that the Naval records are incomplete or that he may have been in another branch of the Armed Services or even another component of the Navy such as ONR, ONI, the Marines, etc.
There may dozens of possible reasons that they were unable to locate these records other than the conclusion that the person never existed.
Personally I think these so called “researchers” were already on some predestined and predetermined course to “prove” that Hubbard was “lying”.
Also there is really no dispute that he may have committed Bigamy but this may have been unintentional since he had already been separated from Polly for some time before meeting Sara.
My god the way some of these “researchers” go on and on and on and on about this point you’d think they existed in some puritanical bubble of some kind.
I think the book “The Scarlet Letter” describes the hypocrisy of such people quite well. Especially Miller who idolizes Popov a man who took sexual promiscuity to the extreme.
It would have been understandable if Hubbard himself was a prude but we all know he wasn’t.
Aside from the *fact* that these biased “researchers” say he made *claims* about his past he never personally made.
In other words they are too busy creating straw men to knock down to do any honest *research*.
If they’d bothered they probably would have found Hubbard quite a fascinating character as none other than Fletcher Prouty has noted.
A man whose been around the block a few times himself.
Anyway when it’s all said and done.
Ron would have been the last person on Earth to have wanted a biography written since he felt that the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology represented his legacy more than anything else.
Karen,
I know your former 2d Heber would ever treat the press in such a disrespectful manner.
Personally I think this is the new “f_ck you” “PR” handling that has become Tom Cruise’s trade mark style and what has made him such a pariah to the press.
What ever happened to being dignified and applying TRs 1-4?
You never see Ron handling the press this way.
Even that reporter who did the slanted BBC special on Ron was treated with respect (even though in my opinion he should have experienced “overboading” for himself) when he encroached on the Apollo.
Don’t these guys realize that getting in a reporters face like that or walking off the set in huff at the bare mention of Xenu only makes them look like a looney tune?
You’d think Tom Tom and John never heard of TRs and a comm cycle.
OL’s of the stars are media as they make/break their popularity and carreers. Media love to report on high rollers and celebs like M&M, Haggis, Jason, Sweeney and other authorities. Media also love to report conflicts in courts, especially if celebs are involved. Getting mainstream media to report more truth more frequently is by far the most effective dePTSing tool. That also handles lots of misconcepts and identification of Church and Tech by the public. It also makes it safer for Kool Aiders to start searching and kick off.
I like spy movies. But I do not like them in real life.
The report reminds me of the East Germany „MFS“ or so called STASI.
In munich org after 1990 we had an ex MFS as staff.
After MFS some ex staff of MFS looking for jobs might have been hired by OSA?
They had been the real pros on the subject.
By the way in mid 80 I had a spy on my heels from an US agency.
For whatever reason he contacted me in person on a train.
And in late 90 my wife had been contaced by a german agency.
And my phone had been tapped for a while. (A guess of mine. On one occasion I noticed one online and me greeting him. After the „good day“ to him it made a klick on the line.)
A spy has one inability. He cannot withhold it forever that he is a spy. Maybe cause they feel so great about themselfs that they have to communicate it. You know: „My name is Bond. James Bond“.
Kris,
We’re over-sensitized to plants and trolls just appearing on the blog and offering allegiance. If you really do follow the blog you should be aware of that fact and it should come as no surprise that others are suspicious.
If your offer is genuine and your experiences true, then welcome and thank you friend.
If you are in fact an OSA troll or plant then what you are doing is disgusting and pathetic and we will find out in time.
Is Kris your real name?
Wise words JM. Thank you for that.
Here’s another link on The Courseroom:
http://community.freezone-tech.info/courseroom/about/.
Kris, to follow-up, any chance you might find the time to handle the address lists of the independents as well, sort of keep the files up to date. Handle the communication lines. That would be useful and since you’ll be in clearwater anyway, why not really jump in. Your the best. What a godsend.
First Principle,
I thought about this a bit more and will relay my experience with Miller’s book for what it’s worth.
I was presented this work immediately upon being declared suppressive and expelled from Scientology, my life smashed, my marriage broken forcibly, by David Miscavige. My family witnessing this debacle, wanted to help me sort out things. My mother, having gotten the book from someone else, asked me to read it. She was very concerned for her son. I read it.
In its pages I recognized many names, many people I knew, many personally. I read along, shocked by its apparent revelations. Especially shocking since there I was, falsely declared suppressive, and witnessing things that were madness itself – all at the apparent hands of Scientology. My images, mental pictures of what I thought I’d been involved in, my life to that point, began to unravel.
I was in a turmoil. What did I do? Well, the first thing that came to me as a solution was from Scientology. This was a confusion, the thing NOT to do, was ‘solve’ it with an idea or conclusion that didn’t actually solve it, but put in place a fixed idea to act as a dam on the confusing torrent of things flowing at me.
Another datum popped to mind, again, sensible in the circumstance, and from Scientology and allied and aligned with the above on Service Computations – the first barrier to learing something is thinking you ‘know it all already’. Well, it would seem I DIDN’T if the pages of this book were ‘true’.
The next thing, and this was all in a similar time frame, that came to mind was fixed ideas I already had in place re LRH, Scientology and the whole experience. One such, that blew on inspection was the stable datum I’d adopted when I became a Scientologist many years earlier. That experience followed an enormously confusing period of my life. I’d found in Dianetics, the first day I read, an answer to that confusion – the single source of human aberration – the Reactive Mind. This answer was different than others though. It actually made sense and DID dispel, with no dregs or adverse effects, the vast majority of what I had been confused about.
However, in the days when I was on the ropes, declared, my life a shambles and was looking over and turning over everything in it to come to some sort of resolution I realized I had put in place a Service Computation – I am a Scientologist -THAT stable datum and certainty that Scientology was ‘right’ had somehow or other fixed itself and resulted in an a lessened ability or willingness to LOOK. Noting from the materials on this that one of these things, the Ser Fac, is as insidious as it appears to align with survival, I laughed, heartily and for the first time in all that mess. I also recognized that the reason I COULD laugh and find relief, was an understanding of what had happened that I got, yes, FROM Scientology. I saw that this subject, unlike any other I know, allowed one to ‘run out Scientology’.
I’ll shorten up all that occurred over the course of reading this book Bare Faced Messiah several times during the coming weeks and months and point up just one of the illogical things in it, one of the little strings the stuck in my particular craw as I poured over the pages, deflected off by the dripping sarcasm and unmistakable disdain for LRH that oozed from Miller’s proverbial pen.
It was when he described LRH as a sort of skulking, terrified, running rat, having been cornered in Dunedin in the year 1976. The portrayal was of a man on the collapse of his charade, in hiding and with empire shrunk he madly carried on commanding a few remnant ‘loyal officers’.
What struck was not that imagery, but the date. The exact time period, close enough to the exact time. I was THERE. I had the location. Immediately the image appeared that utterly contradicted what I’d just read, except for the date and location.
I was walking down S. Fort Harrison, in CW, one Sunday morning coming back from a laundramat, having done my clothes for the week. It was a beautiful spring day, sunny, warm unlike my home in Toronto. I was there for training.
Smiling myself walking down the boulevard I noticed down the road, coming towards me, a copper Cadillac. I saw a big arm hanging out the window, and in the driver’s seat a guy with Ray Ban Wayfarers and a large grin on his face out for a drive, obviously enjoying it and without a care in the world it looked to me. More or less the same feeling and demeanor I had walking down the street.
As the car approached, me looking all around noticing my great environment, I turned to look at the driver to smile a ‘Hi’ at them, give a nod to a fellow enjoying life as much as I was. It got closer, the driver looked my way, I looked his, we exchanged our little ‘heys’ with a slight ack of each other, and he drove on past.
A few steps down the road, I slowed my gait, I paused, I turned around and saw the copper Caddy, the arm hanging out the window, as it carried on down the road.
It was L. Ron Hubbard.
From there, and with difficulty, as I read Miller’s book, I began to pull the salacious tidbits he presents down. It was hard because this was before any internet. Since that time, I’ve found it much easier.
One of the more interesting refutations ( the term its author used)was that of Fletcher Prouty on the military records issue. That’s available.
I’ve done with Miller’s book. It’s a non-issue. But I will say, it sure wasn’t when I made my first opening of that bag of rattlesnake heads.
1982 – I know, I hired him.
🙂 — like I said — he’s doing an abysmal job at helping the FEDS.
Just to lay that speculation to rest.
After 29 years you would THINK his intell TO the FEDS would have produced something.
The ONLY product that Ingram has managed, IMHO, is to become excessively wealthy over the backs of others.
Once a dirty cop, apparently always a dirty cop.
WH
When it comes to romance I can’t offer advice to anyone seeing as how I have been divorced twice. Still, the attraction of OSA women cannot be denied. For myself I have always gone for gals with more ambitious proportions. I remember looking at Maureen O’Keefe with a glad eye when she came to enliven our picketing.
Jim, thanks for that very personal story.
And to your points of evaluation, of comparison to other data, and of identifying uninspected viewpoints, I do not understand why Scientologists (or, frankly, any civilized persons, but especially Scientologists) would either (1) refuse to read anything that was written or listen to anything someone wanted to tell them or (2) believe unwaveringly anything just because they read it or were told it.
I see this all the time … hands over ears and eyes (and avoiding certain Websites) to avoid enturbulating information, as well as unwavering acceptance of something they read or heard.
As Scientologists we have put massive efforts into learning how to know. Although we may not do it perfectly all the time, we sure as hell should have learned something about this subject AND BE ABLE TO APPLY IT.
I see things written here all the time that I think are false. I also have said some things here I later decided (based on new information or a better reasoned argument by another commenter or poster here) were wrong. And, yes, sometimes the trolling on this and other blogs/boards is pretty aggravating. I also think Marty and Mike keep some people here close just so they can watch them more easily. 🙂
BFD. It’s just evaluation and bullbait and evaluation and bullbait. Moving on up.
This is fascinating stuff, Marty. Connolly was pulled off a Vanity Fair piece in 07 on the suicides of Theresa Duncan and her 2D, Jeremy Blake. Graydon Carter offered no explanation as to why he took him off the story but consider this: Duncan was telling the world that her friend, Beck, wanted to get the hell out of the CoS. After that, she started getting threatening phone calls in the middle of the night and was being followed. Beck later denied that he’d ever told her he wanted to leave CoS.
You are forgetting that MissCabbage has his PC folders. Like all of us, there are things in those folders JT doesn’t want to be made public. Let’s call it what it is: spiritual blackmail.
The Pelican was a paid henchman for Fields. Draw your own conclusions from that.
I’d guess Snowhite is young, German-speaking OSA EU. How naive to use the ‘Snowhite’ ID in an attempt to identify with critics of the regime.
Sinar and Sharon,
Lana is no longer Independent. She wrote that article after many conversations with Mike Sutter and Karen Pouw and the promise of a Comm Ev. This under the influence of her husband upset with her Independence. She may regret this when she finds the promises false and the existence inside about the same as when she was there before. Her choice. There are many ways to buy off people.
Huck,
Can you forward me more details on that affair, if you have access?
Marty
Good points RJ,
Yeah … what happened to basic TRs? Granting of beingness ? Code of a Scientologist? Code of Honour? (even that’s been twisted to justify disconnection )
Now it’s constantly adversarial – ‘enemies’ everywhere
Forget the TRs – just put up a shield or some crap flow or ridge and a general ‘screw them’ attitude. Not even close to what the Ol’ Man envisioned.
This whole modus operandi it is, and has been for years, right down at the public level. Not only were the public on lines pummelled with this crap, they now take part in it.
OT Vs, VIIs, VIIIs, or for that matter any Scientologist, acting in this manner? Sheesh
It’s an embarrassment.
Jim, this is one of the best posts ever, IMO. What a great story.
I know someone else who was also training at Flag in ’76 who saw LRH driving down Ft. Harrison in that same Caddy.
Hope I’m not being overly self-referential when I say this, but I made it a point of personal integrity from the day I got into Scientology to read anything I came across regarding Scientology. Not that I would seek out negative stuff, but if I saw it, I’d read it. And compare it to my OWN experiences in Scientology. Consciously deciding to always reality check myself as I proceeded through this most fascinating of all adventures.
I never met, worked with, or set eyes on LRH. Never set foot on the Apollo. But every article or book about him and Scientology that I ever read was loaded with inaccurate descriptions about things I had DIRECTLY experienced. So I figured the odds were good that the inaccuracies also permeated the parts I had not directly experienced.
Coming up to PT, I hope Marty or someone can open Lawrence Wright up to the idea of getting a bit of training and auditing as he does the research on his book. Maybe convince him about the importance of at least walking through some of what Hardeep Singh Kohli did in his video series (see comments section of Marty’s last post).
IMO it is simply impossible for anyone, no matter how “objective” or “fair” (as I believe Wright is) to do justice to Scientology without DOING enough of it to at least have a win or keyout.
Scientology (the subject, NOT Miscavology) has to be experienced to be understood.
http://www.somareview.com/printarticle.cfm?datekey=07120702
The broader story, that Duncan believed she was being followed and harrassed because she publicly said that Beck wanted to break all ties with MissCabbage’s “church” has been well documented.
Also, Connolly wrote extensively about The Pelican. I’m guessing quid pro quo with OSA on that one.
I seem to remember, too, that in the early 90s, he wrote a Scientology expose, maybe for Premiere magazine?
Here is one aspect of it:
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2007/12/how_well_did_jeremy_blake.html
Can somebody upload pictures and Videos of Mike Sutter somewhere on the net ?
Huck,
Yes – he informed on Premiere when they did a report on the early 90s. Take a look at his treatment of Bert Fields in the Pellicano stories. Fields was absolutely in bed with Pellicano. My guess is you’ll find the connection downplayed in the stories.
Marty
Fields is a survivor but the links to The Pelican almost cost him his career.
I have a question for you: if Connolly has been on CoS covert lines since the early 90s, who cultivated him if neither you nor Rinder knew about him?
Nicole on ESMB
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=538205&postcount=4
Imo it’s the same Janet Weiland….
http://www.facebook.com/people/Janet-Weiland/100000506145474
Not the right person CD.
Marty, the story of John Connolly as an OSA Spy/Informant may well become one of the biggest stories you have broken online. Connolly as an informant explains many things, especially when Eugene Ingram is added into the picture. This gives OSA a good cop/bad cop team comprised of two former law enforcement officers. Personally, I would like to see Connolly arrested for phishing — and that may be possible if it can be proven he posed as a journalist online or over the phone in order to spy on people for OSA. If OSA used Connolly’s data to silence or otherwise control people, then there is a probable conspiracy for DOJ to investigate.
*****
RJ wrote: Also Puthoff and Swann’s weekly reports to Yvonne about what was going on at SRI at the time have mysteriously vanished without a trace as well.” I definitely would like to hear more about Puthoff/Swann sending reports on SRI’s Operation Star Gate to Yvonne.
/////
Either naive OR an ‘in your face’ arrogant, Kool Aid drinker who will fight to the bitter end in blind support of the dwarf. My money is on the latter.
SA & Sharon,
Thanks for the update, seems Sutter/Pouw have been busy and have tons of frequent flier miles as Indie damage control.
My bad
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/ida-hoden-opinion.htm
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/scientology-in-seattle/
lucy | December 9, 2010 at 11:43 pm | Reply
Where is Janet Weiland these days? I was also followed and watched by her in LA. I really liked Janet and I thought she had a lot of ARC, but man when she turns on you watch out!
Tory Christman | December 10, 2010 at 10:57 am | Reply
lucy,
Correct, re Janet—on both counts.
Where is she? I think she vanished shortly after
I escaped out. Perhaps she’s in the “hole” with the rest of
the Executives. Marty? Mike? Any clue?
http://angrygaypope.com/gold/gold_base_missing_persons.htm
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/radical-scientology-torture/
you’re missing Dir Soc Coord, Humberto Fontana
Yep. You nailed it, Jim.
LRH knew what would kill off Scientology, and DM is following those precise steps while he goes cocka-hoop over Tom Cruise getting food poisening while writing LRH out of the picture.
And people actually applaude the guy while he does it.
So, Marty, if you had been offered six figures to shut up, would you have done it?
That’s what he’s talking about!
Judge: Scientology no issue in Fowler murder case
http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_17402680
Hi folks-
Sorry it took me a while to respond (yes Kris is my real name).
I will be more than happy to give Marty my address and any info you or others desire as soon as I figure out where I’ll be living in the Clearwater area. My plans are still in their infancy.
After I wrote my initial post- I realized that I may have been mistaken for a troll. I feel so bad that based on your past experience, you have no choice but to protect yourself by trusting no one. I’m so sorry for that.
Also – my job is that of an HR consultant. I work with large companies throughout the state in which I reside to help them with any OSHA or labor laws. I’ve been meaning to bring up that based on the multitude of labor law violations I’ve been reading about- looks like those people who were forced to work for as little as $50 a week have some back-pay coming their way!
Rest assured, my intentions are pure- I’m just a compassionate person who can’t believe what she’s been reading. I’ve raised my son to always give back and help out others in need and I do likewise 🙂
Thanks Jim- I will certainly look into this!
So PROUD of you folks!! As an “outsider”, it warms my heart to see you all come together to conserve what you feel so passionately about. You are setting a example for all to see and you triumph! 🙂
Are you serious?
Jim, Plug away. You don’t just talk, you walk the walk and I’m proud to call you my friend. Sarge loves the Fudd!
please forgive my typos- i’m multi-tasking!
Marty, please feel free to give my email address to anyone who desires it. I don’t know if you can tell- but I’ve had the same account for well over a decade.
Thanks!
No, I realize that is my naive paranoia about how things supposedly work.
I’m still learning.
Someone’s gotta write OSA’s history, and the full history of how Guardian’s Office tech became OSA’s tech, and the personnel who made the GO to OSA transition. There’s a ton of info already on the internet, just needs to be researched and summarized, and put into a history, I feel.
The point is the apologist scholars were bamboozled on this point of OSA not being the same as the old GO, and yet, Marty’s blog is full of the evidence that the dirty spying and character assassination and “FSM” harrassment, is still going on.
All that stuff is so NOT The Way to Happiness, and I personally disagree with LRH on the Simon Bolivar PL underlying justification for all the OSA org board and operations that go on today.
Scientology applied by the freezone and independents get along just fine without using disconnection like blackmail, and without running a GO/OSA setup for themselves.
I think official Scientology needs to have OSA exposed and exposed and exposed, until it battered into non existence.
The pilot program for living without a GO/OSA is the freezone and independent Scientology field.
this threat and the other threads on all the ongoing OSA crap of the last decade are so excellent.
Sam, I agree with Jim. Those in warmer climates probably see the snow as white. But us northerners know just how much dirt and debris is just under the surface now that the sun came out and melts the facade. God bless the sunshine! Love, Sargio
Thanks guys.
I am really glad to hear your take on this.
Jim – You duplicated my confusion perfectly, on how such a great group of people could be capable of such crappy behavior. I am currently at the part where I too, am getting over the Ser Fac of being a Scientologist who knows everything about mental and spiritual matters, and who knows the evil media only tell lies about LRH. I don’t have a satisfactory stable datum yet, except that this blog is currently my best avenue for blowing off the confusion I’ve accumulated.
I’ve been in a swirl since the “Truth Rundown”, comparing my own downward spiral in Scientology these last 10 years with accounts from ex-staff as well as non-Scn sources. All in the attempt to find out – “How in the hell could this happen?”
Hence, when the Church gives the New Yorker LRH’s war medals, two of which didn’t even exist until after the war, I have to conclude the Church lies about him, rather than let his inconsistancies be. Why it’s not good enough that LRH merely developed the most effective mental techniques in the world, it’s beyond me.
I’ve lost the urge to read Bare-Faced Messiah. I’ve come to the point that until a trusted source can come forward to tell all he knows about LRH (hey Marty!) and the disintegration of the Church, there really isn’t objective data out there except for the first-hand witnesses such as who post on this blog. I’m so grateful this blog is here.
And RJ –
as to the “fool’s errand” of whether Commander Thompson actually existed… If the New Yorker asks the Church for 971 fact-checking queries – and at least one of them was about Thompson – and the Church can’t provide ONE postcard, ONE letter, ONE cable, ONE document establishing Thompson even existed, yet they’ll palm off phoney war medals… C’mon RJ. I’ve heard LRH in a lecture mention that he sold his war medals, for cheap at that, so maybe the Church was earnestly trying to compensate for that. But to call it a “fool’s errand” is ridiculous. LRH was an avid writer, 16 or older, when he would have met Thompson. To say he may have misspelled his name or mistaken his branch of service, or rank, does not prevent the Church from using its massive resources for tracking down ANY evidence of Thompson. Not when they’ll risk looking like sleaze giving fake medals to the media. It merely points to my conclusion that LRH made some things up. And it doesn’t have a wit to do with how amazing, life-changing, and brilliantly workable I find his techniques and philosophy to be.
I don’t believe “Excalibur” ever existed either, for the same reasons. And I’m totally fine with that. It’s almost a non-issue. But to imply that its “bull-baiting” for me to try to get to the bottom of LRH’s mythology, after 29 years of getting hammered with this tripe… Please allow me the validity of trying to get a foot-hold on the mass of outpoints that is “The Church of Scientology”.
“Advanced Procedures and Axioms” can remain a jumbled mess for 56 years!! and you RJ want to infer its “evaluation and bull-bait” or a “fool’s errand” for someone to try and pull the string on what the hell these people were going through all these years?
I apologize if it all sounds like a pissing contest. I really do simply just want to know the truth about LRH. And, as Marty says, most of this will never be resolved if it hasn’t been by now.
J Swift,
Hal and Ingo were both good friends of Yvonne so they basically kept her apprised of what was going on at SRI.
It was pretty much known by the public and staff back then that the CIA were interested in their “psychic ability” especially those abilities gained on the original OT Sections above III.
Many especially Ingo thought that by introducing the US Government to a thetan’s capability they would create a Paradigm Shift by proving the existence of “psychic phenomenon”.
All good intentions that led to the road to hell because though many in the Intelligence Community embraced the phenomenon as an intelligence gathering tool others were in abject terror of it.
Fearing that if these “psychic’s” could reveal their enemy’s secrets they could reveal their own as well.
One experiment which didn’t quell their fears at all was when Swann and Price described to NSA’s super secret Sugar Grove facility hidden away in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Another one was probably an earlier experiment where Ingo was able to influence the readings of a magnetometer protected by a Faraday cage and encased in concrete under the floor of the Varian Hall of Science at Stanford University.
This instrument was supposed to be impervious to any electromagnetic particles bigger than a quark yet Ingo was able to flat line its readings by putting his attention on it while describing it.
This was actually the point when CIA their began funding under what they called “Biofield Research” and began taking an “interest” in the Church of Scientology’s Advanced Courses.
No surprise there.
Since the early ’60’s the CIA under Mk Ultra subproject 136 had been interested in psychic phenomenon. Unfortunately not just the phenomenon itself but also in its potential as a psywar weapon. In much the same way the UFO phenomenon was being used.
You see on one hand they’d deny their existence while on the other hand promoting their existence especially when one of their experimental secret aircraft such as “Oxcart” was viewed in the skies near Groom Lake.
Anyway this is the backstory behind Ingo and Hal’s updates to Yvonne about what was happening at Menlo Park.
From what I understand they were more informal than a case officer agent relationship. More like a chat about what’s new at SRI so that Yvonne could keep her public and staff informed on the inroads that Hal and Ingo were making at SRI in proving to the world the effectiveness of the Advanced Courses.
Think of that section in the Advance Mag called “OT Phenomena” only on a broader scale.
In fact Ingo was interviewed twice by the editorial staff of Celebrity Magazine about this.
In both those interviews Ingo only alludes to a Government interest but the interesting part of both interviews is that he says that whatever psychic ability he had lay dormant until he reached the level of Power Processing a confession he later denies making when he is eventually recognized as the “father of Remote Viewing” when the CIA eventually declassify many of the files in the mid ’90’s under “Stargate”.
Hal on the other hand tries to obscure any connection he had in the past with the Church of Scientology and has since been involved in the covert intelligence operation known by researchers as the “Aviary” (called that because the FIOs and IOs involved use bird names as cryptonyms) used to promote what is called “the core story” which is the Government’s direct involvement with extraterrestrials.
Also both Pat Price and later Yvonne Jentzsch die under mysterious circumstances within a few years after the project was initiated at SRI.
In fact you could extend the list to include Quentin Hubbard who many claim committed “suicide” (even though the actual autopsy is inclusive about this and there is some evidence that foul play was involved) just outside of McCarren International Airport which just happens to be in the same city, Las Vegas (the saying “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas” seems to be very true as far as Scientology is concerned) where Price supposedly had a fatal coronary one year earlier even though there was no autopsy done to confirm this prognosis followed by Yvonne who develops a sudden “Brain Tumor”.
Seems key celebrities of the Scientology movement are dropping like flies between the period of 1975-1977 at a rate of one per year.
But by then any of the GO’s efforts to find out what actually happened are interrupted by the cacophonous din of sledge hammers and chain saws…..
RU serious M6?
The first thing OSA does is try to bribe (AKA as Hush Money) any key players into silence which includes a video of the agreement and various self incriminating “affidavits” that are signed which is probably the reason why the brain trust at OSA released salacious data from Marty’s ethics files and Pre OT folders.
I thought you would have known this by now M6.
Hi Folks,
Just spent the evening viewing Magoo44 YouTube posts.
WOW!!
If i had any doubts about what the CoS is about …. they are blown now!
Too bad the CoS KoolAid drinkers are not allowed to
LOOK & LISTEN & THINK FOR THEMSELVES!!
They would see up close and personal what a real Scientologist is supposed to be all about. A Director in the CoS once said to me ” We do not make
“Scientologists” (acting out the quotes with the rabbit ear finger bend)
“We make Free Beings”….. well, it appears that only thing the CoS is providing is Free Beans as in Rice and Beans for people who signed on for
“not what they got”.
Folks, I don’t know how you see this all playing out…. but a lot more lives will be broken or lost ….if this goes on much longer..
A televised U.S. Congressional Hearing might be a good way to go.
You cannot be sued for statements made in a Congressional Hearing…
Or retaliated against….like forever…(maybe).
I would wager the Congressional Event would garner “Boffo” ratings.
What say you?
Panda & JP,
Thanks. John, I remember you ending up in the galley. DM is very much loved as he’s the best personnel recruiter for the area.
Seem to recall Winston Mellor ended up there from the TTC as well and Sandy Wilhere to dishwasher at one point. Quite a number of RTC other than Lana also ended up there such as Angie Trent who was the rep on the Freewinds for a number of years and was at the FSO as part of the fallout of the Lisa McPherson flap, Kevin Popovich who was Dear Leader’s personal body guard, Sherry Murphy from Exec Strata as examples and many more.
John, you also reminded me that there were also times when good producers like the Pastry Chef Nucci Tisi (well liked due to the desserts he made) spent weeks off post, at OGH because he flunked a weekly meter check which all staff had to get (I bet Dear Leader never had to!)
Willow actually went up and down a few times to other posts and busted to the galley. Brigitte is Austrian and didn’t have a driver’s license so when she took over as COB Chef when I left, John had to help her with the logistics & food delivery which involved driving. Willow actually outed himself as an OSA Bot as he wrote an affidavit for the Anderson Cooper 360 expose attesting that it was Mike and Marty involved on the violence & nastiness as a contrast as to how dear leader is most appreciative and is upstat in terms of real estate etc. in one of those toxic kool aid freedom sites.
It is completely remarkable that Willow and Brigitte don’t realize they were thrown under the bus with very little grade chart gain gotten under Dear Leader reign, Non existent Bridge for all, blinded by Mest, buckling their own integrity to spout untruths under Terl’s leverage of disconnection. Perhaps they still believe that Dear Leader is in charge of their eternity!
FP,
Why would there be a post card or letter from Thompson?
I mean according to Ron he talked to the man as a teenager and credits him with giving him an interest in Psychoanalysis.
Do you receive a post card or a letter from every person you’ve talked to in your life?
If so then your Postman must need a Mac Truck to deliver your mail.
I’ve also done the whole Briefing Course and I don’t remember any lecture where Ron says he hocked his war medals.
Though its pretty likely he might have or used them for target practice with his Service issue 45.
Could you give me the precise date and title of this lecture so I could hear it for myself?
However I do know that Ron had a falling out with the USN when he quit because they wanted to exploit his work in the field of the mind and that he revealed what he knew about the Government’s mind control agenda at the time in his book ‘Science of Survival’ under the sections referring to “narcosynthesis” over two decades before “Artichoke” “Bluebird” and “Mk Ultra” became household words.
Don’t you think they would have found some way to discredit the Ol’man as a means of “neutralizing” him?
They do this sort of thing all the time.
Look what happened to Gary Webb the author of “Dark Alliance”.
BTW the Intelligence Community particularly the Technical Services Division of TSD of the CIA is very adept at creating false legends for what they call “back stopping” an agents creds.
Their predecessor the OSS were quite good at it as well and I imagine that the ONI also had a certain degree of skill in creating “legends” as well.
Seems somewhat serendipitous that the main area of contention seems to be Ron’s 201.
Funny how that is?
I mean our Government would never do anything like that!
Create a pack of lies in order to vilify someone or say start a war.
Never happens.
Sorry I even suggested it.
Yes, yes and yes !
QS,
I think this whole reverse ARC process started when the EST like “Severe ‘Reality’ Adjustments” became popular among Sea Org Missionares and then moved down to the lower levels of Scientology much like a disease or virus as a “Standard” handling.
The malady moved out even farther as the way to handle the public and the press as exposed in Cruise’s rude and crude manner.
I remember them even bragging about Cruise’s Fuck ya attitude toward the press at one of the events.
As if this was a means of achieving Scientology’s acceptance!
Pretty damn sick.
Huck,
Alex Constantine has some interesting things to say about the Duncan, Blake double “suicides”:
http://alexconstantine.blogspot.com/2007/08/murder-of-theresa-duncan-jim-cownie.html
Kris
I would hate to learn the ‘lesson’ of wholescale distrust. I would much rather take you at your word. So welcome friend and thank you for your kind heart.
And thank you for explaining yourself when we pounced on you 🙂
Yeah I know.
Obviously my subtle effort at sarcasm failed.
Sheeesh.
Another fact is that Pelicano divided his time between organized crime and the CIA (or do I repeat myself) while keeping tabs on Cruise’s enemies.
Was a very busy PI of the Robert Maheu mold until he got busted.
RJ, you’re pretty good at severe reality adjustments yourself.
Just sayin’.
Yes, her first book, written in 3 weeks, was challenged in court. No time to get it checked by lawyers. She didn’t repeat that mistake with her other books. On the contrary: she was sued many times by scientologists, and got used to emerge as the victor.
There were more peculiarities. A publisher and book merchant was into negotiating the printing of a Hartwig book. That publisher’s car was blown up by a bomb. His wife had a nervous breakdown. The criminal who had placed the bomb was never caught.
I heard the rumours that she had made a deal with OSA. Maybe it’s true.
Reliable data show that OSA operatives had tried to handle her by a tailor-made strategy of pushing her buttons, e.g. self importance and desire for admiration. Don’t know how much this contributed to her “handling”.
CD,
Not sure if this is what you want but a Photo identifying Sutter is here and he is third from the left.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=410870&postcount=118
Quite a few errors on names here – it’s Greg Wilhere instead of Hugh (brother).
Yawn. What does she know?
Mike, Please allow me to second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth your sum up of Lisa Lirones/Lisa Huber a.k.a. Louanne a.k.a. Mary. Lisa was like a vicious Nazi guard at a death camp. These types figure out the way to stay friends with the top guy is to slash and eviscerate everyone around you as often as possible, especially her juniors. Thus she decided to become an SP. She had only junior, but she was ruthless and merciless on him — especially in front of RTC (because she knew they would report to DM — whereby every time she opened her mouth it was unrestrained hostility. He’s out now and he’s no longer a Scientologist. I don’t blame him with a witch like Lisa to work for.
Lisa’s deteriorating health and looks reflected the vomit festering inside her mind. She became that and still IS that to this day. I noticed on her website she covers up her nearly her entire body because it is unwholesome. She wraps a scarf around her neck and hides behind fly-like sun glasses. She’s got a personality like battery acid. Caustic. She needs to come to her senses and stop being an SP.
First Principle,
Hey. Glad I could help.
Like I said, on anything that hangs in the ‘bullpen’ , sorta sitting there, not filed away, with persistence and a willingness to look, you’ll get that piece of data that resolves it.
I can’t recall exactly where or what offhand, it was that cleared the Thompson thing from mine. It seemed odd to me the NYer guys brought that one up. Sorry I can’t be better help on that one, but it’s gone for me, and I certainly don’t seem to be left with it was a fabrication out of whole cloth.
The Excalibur one. Study the early tapes. Up to the end of 53 at least. One proviso; you’re grasp of the data is enhanced if your study of Scn is once through for reality on what’s real to you, coupled with some hefty areas of charge handled as reality on a lot of this stuff is proportional to charge off. If you still have something in the pen on that one then. Write me, I’ll give you my copy.
FP,
OOPs, it should be once through for reality, and then back to before the beginning and go up through again, coupled with some charge off those very heavy areas. That’ll do ‘er.
Hey RJ,
Commander Thompson was one of the 25 men Ron thanked for their contributions to his philosophical development at the beginning of Science of Survival, before the new edition omitted it.
They would be SOME remnant of their comm line, if only a corroborating diary entry, if he had existed. The Church would’ve surely produced SOMETHING to avoid the New Yorker’s fact-checking query to go unanswered and allow them to state that LRH lied. Dan Sherman can stand there and positively state, for instance, that LRH never met Gore Vidal. Such is their certainty of minutia of LRH’s comm lines.
And we’re talking one of LRH’s mentors!
Regarding the tape I heard about his medals: I listened to all of the Basics Lectures, and most of the Congresses. He was talking about how he brought them into a shop, and the owner quoted him five bucks or something, and then Ron discovered that the owner thought Ron wanted to BUY them from the shop. I forget if Ron ended up selling them after all.
It’s neither here nor there I know. The tech works thank goodness and the rest is just hobby horsing on my part. But I will be devouring Marty’s book when it comes out!
Sarge,
I’m so much richer knowing you and having you consider me your friend. The Fudd loves Sarge wight back.
Jim, your story reminds of an incident at Flag, also in 1976. I had just completed OTIII at AOLA and decided to take a detour to Clearwater on my way back to NY. The new location was still officially a “secret” at the time but there had been a newspaper article about the Church’s new properties in the area, so I decided to go take a look. I was only there for a day or two but I could have sworn I saw LRH in a car as it was briefly stopped at a light. I even wrote to him to ask if it was really him and the reply I got was something along the lines of “Well if you think you saw me, it’s quite possible that you did”. Your story, Jim, is a nice confirmation.
Commander Thompson found?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Cheesman_Thompson
That’s the guy.
RJ, I don’t doubt there’s more to the story, but Alex Constantine has a vivid imagination. Who on earth gave Charles Manson 150 hours of Scientology auditing in prison????
Well okay FP…
Like whatever….
Please ‘splain to me how come I come out looking like Torquemata on this one and Jim ends up comin’ off like Mother Teresa?
…..sigh……
Well if you’re happy I’m happy 🙂
Thanks Sam (my son’s name btw 🙂 )
I’ll continue to spread the word regarding your plight…
Yawn,
No surprise that the New Yorker is slightly *slanted*.
Well at least we can count on the media occasionally getting it right.
Hey “fact” checkers over there.
Why not put down the doobie before “checking” the “facts”?
sheeeesh
Hi Jim, (and I did see your addition below)
If you are offering me the chance to borrow your copy of Excalibur, I will definitely be taking you up on that!
(Really??!!)
I think listening to all the early tapes once again is a splendid idea. Reality being proportional to charge off makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to it.
And thanks again for sharing your hello with LRH. How nice when you have your own observation, damned what someone else tries to tell you of the scene.
You mean the guy who likes his Vodka martinis “shaken not stirred” George?
No surprise that OSA would hire ex-Stazi ,KGB, Mossad, CIA whatever.
These guys’ll work for anyone who pays well.
Anyway Ron wrote a directive about how to handle such agents but obviously it isn’t being applied.
Since Ron would have never imagined that OSA would have used these guys to run covert ops and surveillance against Scientologists but I’ve been in a similar situation myself.
In the wonderful world of espionage they call it “fun & games”.
RJ and QS,
Yup. No application of ARC and unwillingness to grant beingness to any viewpoint but their own. The SRA is an attempt to cram some reality down someone’s throat even when it doesn’t apply. The current actions of OSA, RTC, etc reminds of this:
This is an awesome link!
Has it been posted to the New Yorker yet?
Of course the Co$ couldn’t provide it, they are allergic to searching the Internet! Not to mention DM wants to throw LRH as far under the bus as he can, so omitting to provide this kind of proof of Commander Thompson’s existence would be right up his alley…..
Also, Peter Soderqvist posted extensive information about Commander Thompson on ESMB over 2 years ago. Peter does do meticulous research.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=210322
Janet was on the Pac RPF as of September 2006.
RJ,
very informative. Thanks to that. Just want to add:
I am a trained electrician. Shure one learns during training about faraday cage. Shure one never questioned those data. Many years later I did an experiment. Had such a cage and found out that my bodies biomagnetic field has no problem inducing some current to a device inside this cage. Another small experiment: Put my blackberry into the microwave oven. Thought no microwave should come out and into the oven. Guess what, my blackberry did work inside the oven. This tells me that even the very basics of physics might be wrong. (or my micro [maybe any] is not save.)
Thank you. I wonder who photoshopped the few extra inches on COB.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=82093&postcount=6
“There were stories that existed in Scientology that this guy, Snake Thompson, was a personal student of Freud, and that LRH studied with Thompson.
When I was first assigned by LRH to the Pers PRO office on the ship, one project I was given was to write a sort of mini-bio on him that would come out as an 8 or 10 page issue for orgs and missions. I wasn’t a professional writer, and my “research” consisted of just taking things from book jackets and whereever else I could find info on LRH’s life. I remembered this story about Thompson but could find no real data or reference about it, so I asked LRH about it.
LRH told me that he never studied under Thompson; that Thompson was an acquaintance of Hubbard’s father, and that when LRH was a kid, his father once introduced him to Thompson. That was it.
Mike Goldstein”
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=5390
LOL at Wiki Providing the answer two years ago allready whit the Pesky Anon affiliated mods at the helm.
Awwwwww! 😀
Jim
Excellent blog. Perfect for anyone who is looking for answers about what is going on in the church backed up with exact LRH references.
Thanks Qual Ninja – I can use this 🙂
OK, well this opens up a whole spectrum of discussion aside from the main topic of the blog-post.
I didn’t know Hal or Ingo personally but I knew Pat Price very well. (shared a house with him and his wife the last year and a half of his life)
Pat was THE superstar of the RV experiments IMO. He was part of a class of OT’s who came up the line at a time when OT’s were validated and respected and allowed to flex their muscles. The original OT levels. And not be constantly mailed-to, emailed, called, reg’d, brow-beaten, invalidated, badgered, sec-checked, assigned conditions…
Disgusting environment for OT’s today.
Yvonne, who I knew well also, was the ultimate in walking, talking pure theta endowment with the ultimate and super-human ability to GRANT BEINGNESS.
So at that time, anything was possible.
Pat confided many things to me but what freaked me the most was when he told me about reporting to his handlers on conversations going on inside the Kremlin. I’m afraid it spooked (pun intended) them as well and again, IMO, put the wheels in motion for him to come to an untimely end.
Remember, this was the height of the cold war. Which could be very HOT for those considered on the front lines and a potential threat. Pat was aware of the danger but took his usual devil-may-care approach to the subject and carried on. (he was finding unknown coal deposits for coal companies when he died)
As long as it was all about bending spoons and identifying what color socks someone was wearing in another city, it was all fun and games.
I think Pat scared them though, and also put a big red bulls-eye on Scientology and the tech as well.
I’m sure it’s not hard to fill in the blanks from there as to why the tech and Source needed to be corrupted.
My 2 cents.
RJ: Ingo Swann and Hal Putoff – I was at CCLA during the years of Ingo Swann and I don’t remember seeing you there. Perhaps you could remind me of your time on staff or as a public as CCLA. So, your comment about being briefed on Ingo and Hal’s doings at SRI seems perhaps second/third hand. (which always gets embellished through the telling, I’ve found)
She never briefed the staff regularly on Ingo’s doings. I remember perhaps once. Mainly Ingo was renowned for painting what I thought was a rather atrocious painting/mural on the side of the La Brea CC building. At least it was a good landmark for people. You know the building with the bulls eye painted on it?
Was Yvonne’s tumor mysteriously caused by CIA advanced and pointed radiation or something targeted at Yvonne? That is a really long bow to me but then I’m not really into all that clock and dagger stuff – though surely it exists.
That said — Yvonne was NO fan of the GO. Heber protected her often from being removed from post. By the time she did get sick, she HAD been removed as CO of CCLA, shunted over to the corner as the EXTERNAL CO but it was all BS … and she went downhill from there.
IF you subscribe to PTSness (sarcasm inserted here) I would say years of duress from her FOLO seniors and the GO created an environment for Yvonne that was untenable — not CIA operatives beaming her from afar.
WH
Valkov,
OSA and DM know the LRH references that stories want controversy, big names, etc. Time was taken to try and shift the controversy away from DM but it was ok to lead it to LRH. Throw him under the bus, absolutely. Protect Der Leader at all costs – even if it costs LRH’s name. Spend hours to argue every point of truth regarding the brutality of DM but don’t spend 5 minutes to search the net to find an easy truth regarding statements about LRH. Just more disgusting and altered priorities.
Kris,
email me
firewitch888@yahoo.com
Sam,
you have precisely spotted Snowhite’s character and attitude, which I have seen so often displayed by him/her on this blog og German Independent Scientologist Anne :
http://www.kommrein.wordpress.com
More often than not, his/her narrow-minded comments have been an inspiration for other bloggers to tell their actual experiences in Co$, or to quote sources about Co$ abuse and crimes.
Awesome! Thank you Scott.
LOL!!!
Sapere …
Hilarious … exactly the same as the current OSA/RTC Ops.
Do I hear the sound of a deflating balloon?
CD,
If you look down, he’s standing on wooden grating which adds probably 1 1/2-2 inches to his height. Everyone else is standing on the teak deck.
Hi Marty,
Thought you might like this, its from Philly and I see comparisons between the “official” church and its injured members/reformed church and what you are doing.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20110217_Ronnie_Polaneczky_.html?viewAll=y
Jim,
I should tell you Jim, though its a little after the fact, that I really did think you may of had some secret copy of Excalibur. It looked to me that you didn’t want to part with it unless it was absolutely necessary to save my sanity! Oh man. It shocks me to see myself manifest lower tones of “Literalness of Statements Received”. I could enjoy your closing one post with “LRH was a great 27th president”, but this other humorous sign-off totally went over my dreamy little head. I realized when I woke up this morning that you were making a funny, and I didn’t want my sincere surprise to be interpreted as being 1.1.
In retrospect I must have been quite in the mood for magic.
BTW- Scott Campbell and Valkov just posted links to the existance of Commander Thompson. New Yorker did’nt to use Wikipedia!
Again Jim – When I exclaimed “Really??!!” in my post yesterday I really did think you had a copy! It would upset me if you thought I was being rude, and not just the niave guy that I evidently am sometimes.
Also”to be a student of” a certain person does not automaticly mean you have met the man. You can be a student of Plato or Freud like that.
It can be fancy way of saying you are studieng someones work.
You can even say “I am a student of the fine arts” or fill in what thou willst 😉
RJ,
I’ll tell you how! You missed my withhold that I was taking all this just a little too seriously. I do appreciate your response. I feel very much flat on the subject of what was accurate vs. what was embellished regarding LRH’s past.
Didn’t mean to get so feisty RJ. Later.
Okay
Joseph Cheesman Thompson, M. D., (1874–1943)
He didly died in 1943
And here are the medals
http://img51.imageshack.us/f/hubbardstolenmedals2b.jpg/
FP,
See the post below by Scott Campbell and it’s link on the Thompson question.
Rogues Gallery
HERE BE THE RULES FOR THE ANONYMOUS ROGUES GALLERY
What IS a rogue’s gallery?
A rogue’s gallery is where Suppressive Persons local to an organization are stored for dissemination/fun. Generally, they are kept with the secretary of the organization or the Executive Director or with the DSA for the organization. In this respect, we will be detailing the intimate details of all Scientologist provocateurs, employees, agents or private investigators.
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/rogues-gallery.8660/
FP,
No worries mate. I saw that my li’l comment wasn’t gettin’ across…yet, but had faith it would.
Besides, maybe I DO have a copy!!! I couldn’t tell you one way or the other now could I. You or anyone else out there 🙂
We’re cool I hope. And yes, it does seem odd the NYer didn’t Google and find the link. Hey, they are human reporters what can I say.
Valkov,
DM, through Tommy D and OSA WANTED to forward the Gerry Armstrong/Russell Miller nonsense. It was INTENTION on DM’s part. When I read about the ‘DA’ pack and Tommy’s efforts with the NYer, I was disgusted that it was this gibberish they brought. Not even vaguley valid, and worse, false and given BY GERRY TO DAVE.
Recall, DM is the one that persecuted Gerry, Wollershiem et al, relentlessly and ‘crossed-over’ the GPM and which one of those two is who at this point is apparently pretty blurry to them both.
RJ,
But dooooooode, the dooooobie is my inspiration, man.
Dave’s not here.
http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/CoS/docs/manson.html
The most egregious one of all in my mind is #6, using policy to stop.
Policy has levels of scope and seniority. Senior policy is “We always delivery what we promise.” Other senior policy is to answer people’s questions.
In the admin scale, goals and purposes are senior to policy. It is obvious that where a policy obstructs a fundamental purpose, the purpose wins, not policy. After all, policy exists to help a group stay on purpose and achieve its goals.
The whole validity of the Independent movement is completely authorized by Ron (posthumously, of course) because of these two factors:
1. The church is violating policy and using the policies it does have to stop (and in fact actively reverse) Scientology’s progress), and
2. Where policy is in conflict with the goals and purposes, it MUST be put aside.
Hence, Independents want to use and practice Scientology, and, really, rescue the subject from the clutches of a megalomaniac. They want those that say that are practicing Scientology (those in the Church) to either actually practice Scientology, or stop pretending. In other words, the goal is to forward the aims of Scientology, to which ALL policy should be aligned.
Thus, while Independents are truly violating some key policies on splintering, public censure of Church leadership, etc., and while these policies are very valuable and should be followed if the Church is on purpose and is making progress against the goals of Scientology, the policies are moot at this point because of the dog’s breakfast that Mr. David Miscavige and his minions have made of the “official” Church.
Now, of course, it is dangerous and tricky to pick and choose which policy to follow, and which to disregard. And, in a sane environment, we would have a mechanism in place to adjudicate this. But we don’t. So, we are left to use our best judgement, and follow the Honor Code and keep our own council.
But, to sum this up, using policy to stop is the number 1 crime of the Church. From there extends all other evils.
Jim – Awesome – thanks for the post.
What I know of Scientology I know from the pen and mouth of L. Ron Hubbard. I have read millions of words, and heard probably as many more on lectures. I have applied the materials, and had them applied on me. I have run and blown engrams – they are real. I have run and blown Service Facsimiles – they are real.
I had a withhold missed on me big time when I was 15, and did not know the missed withhold phenomena at the time, and dramatized the missed withhold phenomena to the letter… only to find out shortly thereafter that, wow! That withhold was missed, and that I was advertising it broadly to all that would listen about how much of an asshole the person who missed it was. Ooops.
ARC, GPMs, Listing and Nulling, the list goes on. If Ron Hubbard wore drag on Sunset, I would not care, because it DOES NOT MATTER.
(Of course, I have friends who actually did wear drag on Sunset, but you know what I mean 🙂 )
RJ, you are right – but let’s look at something even MORE cussed up:
Tommy Davis SAID to Wright that “if it is true that Hubbard was lying, then all of Dianetics and Scientology is a lie too.”
UNNNN-Believable!
RIGHT THERE, you have Tommy Davis admitting he does not know Scientology. Because if he did, that asinine statement would never have entered his head, let alone escaped from his lips.
It also was the whole subject of the “Fresh Air” interview with Wright.
It was not Tommy’s highest moment.
Fantastic research. Lot’s of corroborating evidence.
My search consisted of me thinking, “I wonder if I can find this guy” Then typing in “Commander Snake Thompson” in the google search bar.
Maybe I could get hired as a “Fact Checker”.
Not by the New Yorker though.
Scott
RJ,
Hey, cut me some slack. OSA records these things and if I get one where I’m Mother Theresa I’m takin’ it.
Hey, OSA, world, all those that watch these things, Robin compared me to Momma T!!!!!
No probrem (a ninja accent, hopefurry not too objectionabre).
Spread the word on the site. It’s well researched and well presented. A whole other tack on the problem at hand. Another road leading to Rome.
Thoughtful.
Thanks for this input.
Quote:
sum up of Lisa Lirones/Lisa Huber a.k.a. Louanne a.k.a. Mary. Lisa was like a vicious Nazi guard at a death camp
This was DM’s “PET” ?
Incredulous.
While her bad leg radiated ODORS ? (other reports to me)
More incredulous.
DM smashed long term Opinion Leaders on the Base and world wide like Heber Jentzsch, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, while FAVORING the likes of Lisa ~~ a screaming hostile vindictive lunatic ?
How do you account for DM good taste in high end motor bikes and luxury living quarters and YET ~~ a remarkable taste in affection for PSYCHOS ?
????????????????????????????????
You know, I never thought of doing this previously, but perhaps I should consider doing a “Louanne ” on the web.
Everywhere she splatters, I should counteract with horror stories far more deadly in content.
Perhaps I should just SPAM like LOUANNE.
Cut and paste endlessly with far more EFFECT, stories the public can relate to. I started already with Village Voice
and a couple of other on-line media.
Louanne is inspiring !
An ASSET to OSA
Who ever is recruiting OSA volunteers…….GOOD JOB !
High Fives !
Hi Vertley,
Glad that you could join the discussion.
I never met Pat but I heard that he was a real nice guy.
Ingo I tried making contact with by e-mail and ended up going through a mediator of some kind.
I was trying to get a copy of a paper he published in around 1973 entitled ‘Scientological Techniques: A Modern Paradigm for the Exploration of Consciousness and Psychic Integration’ for the First International Psychotronic Conference in Prague at that time.
He said that the Church should have a copy and that his paper was mainly about study technology.
Uh huh…..
Personally I think the Church would be the last place that anyone would find this paper and Ingo knows this.
Anyway one researcher who I had been in com with (not a Scientologist) said that he had interviewed Ingo who said that RV had nothing to do with Scientology and that he actually gained these psychic abilities he had as a small child.
Sure…..
So I sent him a copy of both ‘Celebrity Center’ interviews.
Needless to say he was livid about the fact that Ol’Ingo had hoodwinked him.
Personally I think his handlers in the CIA and DIA have told him and Puthoff to *deny* that any of these psychic abilities had anything to do with Scientology processing.
Another thing I found that was interesting was that Pat was assigned the Target of viewing a possible Terrorist training base in Libya just before his untimely demise.
Turns out that according to Trento’s book ‘Prelude to Terror’ that there just so happened to be a base exactly where Pat said there was one but that it was an off the books operation run by several CIA operatives.
Curious and curiouser…..
Anyway according to an account by someone who was there Pat told him that he suspected he had been poisoned just before arriving in Las Vegas.
That same night Pat dies of an alleged heat attack but no autopsy is done to confirm this because some suit arrives from Washington and tells them that Pat had a heart condition and that no autopsy is needed to confirm cause of death.
Yeah sure….
“Trust me because I’m from the Federal Government and there’s really nothing to see here folks so let’s move along”
Anyway Vertley nice to have you here posting and backing me up on some of this.
Ml
RJ
“Google is your friend”
Nope, your assumptions are wrong.
Microwave ovens have metal cases to prevent leakage. The aperture grill on the door is not just fancy holes so you can see the thing inside, the size of the holes is carefully tuned to the frequency emitted by the magnetron so that they cannot pass through.
Your blackberry runs at a different frequency.
As an analogy, you have a red light filter and are wondering why green light passes through. Well, red light filters do not filter green light.
p.s. your microwave is very likely to be perfectly safe. It’s hard, really hard, to break them. I’ve only ever seen one successful way – take the door off and break the safety interlocks.
Funny thing is “using policy to stop” is a double edged sword that the Church currently uses.
For instance when I was there and accused RTC, RTRC and the Senior C/S office of violating KSW particularly point 4 and HCOPL ‘Drills Allowed’ I was told in no uncertain terms that I was using policy to stop and was preventing students from gaining the benefits of the wondrous “Golden Age of Tech” and basically if I continued to insist that the Church apply standard policy and tech they would have no other choice but declare me a SP forthwith etc…etc….
Not in so many words but the intention was there.
Yeah I mean I wore drag on Sunset but I could never turn a trick.
Hmmm…
Maybe because I forgot to shave or something 😉
Sorry Scott,
If you want to be a “fact checker” at the ‘New Yorker’ you have to pretend that google doesn’t exist and take your meds.
Scott, The New Yorker said that there was no Commander Thompson at the time of the separation papers, not that there was never a Cmdr. Thompson. My recall of LRH’s mention of Cmdr. Snake Thompson was as an influence in his younger years while traveling overseas with his family to his father’s duty station- this was on LRH tapes, if my memory serves. The Wikpedia article states that Snake Thompson left the Navy in 1929, which is well before the 1940’s separation papers. But the 1929 and earlier fits well with the LRH traveling as a teenager on sea vessels overseas and encountering Cmdr. Snake Thompson stories.
As to why are there two different sets of separation orders with different names on them, maybe that fits with the two sets of files theory. For me, who knows and who cares?
Good catch on that one GH.
Tommy must have taken the RTC approved course of “How to Destroy Scientology in One Easy Lesson”
I mean Tommy seems to be going the extra mile beyond merely being a Glutz PR.
Sheeesh
There are actually two different Commander Thompsons in question.
1. The Commander Joseph “Snake” Thompson, to whom LRH refers.
2. Commander Howard D. Thompson, who the Navy says never existed in their records, yet who signed LRH’s seperation papers according to the Church’s records.
The Navy’s records show someone named “Rhodes” as having signed LRH’s seperation papers.
When Wright says on NPR’s Fresh Air that “There’s no record of Commander Thompson ever existing he was refering to Howard D. Thompson. And hopefully didn’t conflate that one with “Snake” Thompson. As I certainly did.
I like to ad I am willing to believe overzealous Fanatich Church Scientologists gave up their medals because they believed Hubbard should have earned them.
Any thoughts ?
I think we should run a few ads ourselves:
“Like tired of being part of a “Church” where the so called “Pope” is accused of assaulting and battering its staff?”
Or
“Tired of being a member of a “Church” where its so called leader continually kisses Tom’s or any well connected rich fuck’s ass any chance he gets?”
(working could be changed slightly)
Or “Part of Church where the so called leader alters the scriptures any time he’s low on cash”…..etc.
CD,
I see the New Yorker is real big on what medals Ron *didn’t* (too bad they couldn’t have been as thorough ’bout locating good Ol’ “Snake” but google musta been down or something) earn but don’t say what 4 medals he *was* awarded.
I mean two of them could have been the Silver Star and the Congressional Medal of Honor for all we know?
All I gotta say is thanks again New Yorker for your slanted and biased report.
I’ll put you right up there with the National Enquirer as an accurate *news* source.
Jimbo,
That’s what I thought when Glutz Tommy handled over those “dox”.
They musta come from “All we’s got’s ta do is allege” Gerry’s stash false documents.
Busy guy these days when he isn’t selling Ron’s false past he’s out there pushing MJ 12.
Huck,
Funny how you accuse any one who doesn’t have your narrow minded view of “having a vivid imagination”.
Tom gave you the link.
The fact was noted in Vincent Bugliosi’s book Helter Skelter which I read back in the ’70’s.
Also for any of the so called critics out there.
Manson was never a Scientologist.
Another *fact*.
He joined up with the Process Church and had a connection to Church of Satan after being released.
RJ.
What he earned he earned, I was SUPRISED somebody managed to put in a very high french medal and a very high dutch medal into the mix
Indeed because DM does not care about L ron Hubbard that is passed of as the truth.
Church members WILL believe it
Marty can you get the New Yorker straight on old Snake ? Maybe they are willing to post an Interview with Independants ?
RJ, why don’t you stick a sock in it.
Sometimes you give a great impression of an OSA “rile ’em up” sock.
Just Me
CD,
You gotta good theory there.
As I wrote the GO once (probably meaning Mary Sue who was a hard person to say “no” to) had Ron write an info letter that was a 2 page bio which they used to hand out to curious newsies.
Because the Ol’man himself wasn’t interested in doing a bio.
Anyway the obsession to do a full Bio didn’t arise till the early ’80’s sometime when Dave as head of ASI thought it would be a great money making scam.
You know something he could sell to Scientologists till he caught onto the idea of just rewriting the basic books every decade or so.
Anyway Ron from what I understand either used what ever medals he received from the Navy for target practice or mighta skipped them across the Potomac after he resigned.
So this is pure speculation but I think Dave with the help of others went about creating a false past for the Ol’man just like they’re trying to create a false past for Scientology in general.
WH,
Never said I was at CC during that time.
Also never said that Yvonne was working for the GO either.
Never said that the *staff* as whole were briefed weekly about the events at SRI either.
So those are three straw men so far that *you* created
Frankly I don’t really give a damn if you’re interested in the cloak and dagger aspect or not.
Seems others are.
I’m not writing these posts for you specifically.
If you are going to correct me on any errors I made.
Then I suggest you correct actual *valid* errors instead of straw men.
Otherwise you’re being disingenuous when wrapping yourself in the mantle of “truth”.
Did they actually say that applying KSW was “using policy to stop?” Unbelievable!
GH,
Overall you could say yes.
Simply due to the fact that one of the PLs listed in my KR was KSW in particular point 4 and that by writing this KR it was strongly *implied* that I was using policy to stop.
I mean some of the so called “handlings” I got belong in “Ripley’s Believe it or Not”.
There was a point just before I left that being in an org was a WTF? moment 24/7.
RJ — You really do have a penchant for picking fights. I sometimes wonder if this is your full time occupation. WH is one of the sanest, smartest and gentlest souls to participate on this blog. Anyone who points out anything you may be in error about can expect a diatribe back about “straw men”. I dont bother correcting things you say too often these days as its not worth the 5 back and forths that will undoubtedly ensue.
But while we are on the topic of “straw men” you have done a number of posts deriding Larry Wright because he “couldnt find” Snake (Joseph Cheesman) Thompson.
OK, how is this for a “straw man”? Here is the quote from the New Yorker and I ask f you see reference to Joseph Cheesman Thompson (who LRH met enroute to China as a youth and had nothing to do with his separation papers from the navy 20 or more years later):
“On the church document, the commanding officer who signed off on Hubbard’s separation was “Howard D. Thompson, Lt. Cmdr.” The file contains a letter, from 2000, to another researcher, who had written for more information about Thompson. An analyst with the National Archives responded that the records of commissioned naval officers at that time had been reviewed, and “there was no Howard D. Thompson listed.”
Now, how about climbing down off your high horse and being a little nicer to those on this blog who may have information to impart that, god forbid, you didnt know or weren’t privy to? Maybe THEY could possibly be right? Or have some valid information?
And by the way. I have seen THOUSANDS of LRH despatches that are NOT issued as policy. I typed a bunch of them from his dictation. And because he wrote despatches, didnt mean he was violating his own policy. And yes, many of them WERE by definition POLICY and TECH, not just a momentary order. It’s RTRC existed.
You contribute a lot of interesting and useful information to this blog, but you need to keep your combative nature in check somewhat. I dont want people not to feel safe posting here (unless they are trolls) and your sort of combativeness is not conducive to people wanting to give their views.
JM
Did you know that implying that others are working for OSA is a pretty good indication that the person making the accusation works for OSA?
Me OSA…
Yeah right.
And Porky the Pig is a bar storming ace
Mike, thank you, thank you, thank you!
JM
RJ: My point RJ is that you were not on staff at CCLA during those years NOR were you public. Therefore your information is coming from someone else who was … and could have been embellished.
Reread what I wrote about Yvonne and the GO. I NEVER said she IN the GO and didn’t say that you did.
I said she hated the GO as they were always trying to stop her expansion ideas, fought with them bitterly and her husband Heber, who WAS in the GO protected her from them the best he could.
And I never used the word weekly, when talking about Yvonne and briefing her staff. I said regularly which I felt you implied by saying she was briefed often by Ingo.
No doubt they are several who are interested in the cloak and dagger. It makes for exciting reading. I personally believe however, it’s important to not border on the sensational otherwise this blog could start to look somewhat yellow.
(as in yellow journalism in case you miss my point again)
WH
Mike,
Me combative!!!!!!?????
By the way I wrote something like anything *broadly affecting* policy or tech is issued as a PL or HCOB or FO.
All the *Standard* procedures for any rundown exist in HCOBs.
All the *usual* actions within an Organization and the structure of the Org exists in HCOPLs and in the case of SO orgs in FOs.
As per the following PL:
(begin fair use)
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 APRIL AD 15
Rernimeo
Sthil Students
Franchise
THE “HIDDEN DATA LINE’
Some students have believed there was a “hidden data line” of tech in Scientology, a line on which Scientology
tech was given out by me but not made known to students.
This started me looking. For there is no such line.
I wondered if it was a “missed withhold of nothing”. There can be one of these, you know. There is nothing
there, yet the auditor tries to get it and the pc ARC Breaks. This is “cleaning a clean” with an E-Meter.
One pc I cleaned up very nicely had been harassed for years about “an incident that happened when she was
five”. A lot of people had tried to “get it”. The pe was in a pitiful condition. I found there was nothing there. No
incident at all! The meter read came from the charge on previous auditing. I think probably she must have sneezed or
her finger slipped on the cans when first asked about “an incident when you were five”.
An auditor who “sees a read” when there is no charge makes a “missed withhold of nothing”.
This is the other side of the ARC Break-the gone something, the non-existence of something. No food. No
money. These things ARC Break people.
So it is with a “missed withhold of nothing”.
Take Johannesburg. Some years ago the field there was upset by 3 rabble rousers who alleged all manner of r
,Jd things about the Scientology org there. They held wild field meetings and all that.
uth was these three people had done a vicious thing and screamed to high heaven when I sought to query them.
They made a “missed withhold of nothing” in the field in that area! There was exactly nothing wrong with
Scientology there or us. There was something wrong with those three people. They had been stealing from the org.
The field kept looking for what was wrong with the org or us. Nothing was. So it couldn’t be cleaned up because
there was nothing to clean. There were three thieves who had run off with org property and defied orders to give it
back. How this made something wrong with us is quite a puzzle. They are still “cleaning up this ARC Break” in
Johannesburg! For it is not cleanable, not being there to be cleaned! Unless you realize there was nothing there at all!
It’s a missed withhold of nothing. The basic org and staff and we at Saint Hill were just doing our jobs in ordinary
routine!
Governments looking for evil in Scientology orgs will go mad (I trust) as they are seeking a non-existent thing.
They are easily defeated because their statements are so crazy even their own legal systems can’t help but see it. So it’s
easily won.
The only person who goes mad on a missed withhold of nothing is the person who thinks there is something
there that isn’t.
So it is with the “hidden data line” students sometimes feel must exist on courses.
There is no line.
But in this case there is an apparency of a line.
When instructors or seniors give out alter-ised technology or unusual solutions, the student feels they must have
some inside track, some data line the student doesn’t have.
The student looks for it and starts alter-ising in his turn pretending to have it when they become instructors.
186
It’s a missed withhold of nothing.
The whole of technology is released in HCO Bulletins and HCO Policy Letters and tapes I do and release.
I don’t tell people anything in some private way, not even instructors.
For instance, all the instructors I taught to handle R6 we taught by my lecturing or writing bulletins for them.
Every one of these tapes is used to teach GPM data and handling to students on the Saint Hill Course.
Any new data I have given on it has been given to all these people.
The instructor then knows only to the degree he has studied and used the very same HCOBs and HCO Pol Ltrs
and tapes the student is now using.
There is no “hidden data line”. To believe there is makes an ARC Break.
The apparency is somebody’s pretence to know from me more than is on the tapes and in books and mimeos, or,
brutally, somebody’s alter-is of materials. This looks like a “hidden data line”. It surely isn’t.
All the lower level materials are in the HCOBs, Pol Ltrs or on tapes.
All the GPM materials released are here waiting for the student when he reaches that level.
One could say there was one if one was way off the main data line. But it sure isn’t hidden. It’s on courses and in
orgs.
I laughed one time at the top flight US Government White House entrusted psychologist. He looked over some
startling IQ changes, said such a thing would revolutionize psychology overnight if known and added “no wonder you
keep your technology secret!”
That is very funny when you look at how hard you and I work to make it known to all!
The data line isn’t hidden. It’s there for anyone to have. There’s lots of it is possibly a source of trouble in
releasing it. But it’s all on courses in Academies or Saint Hill. You could have. a copy of everything in the tape library
if you wanted. It might cost a lot, but you could have it.
There is no hidden data line.
There’s a lot of data I haven’t had time to write down and put on a line for sheer press of time. But I work hard to
do it.
But even my closest staff and communicators when it hears of a new process or plan from me verbally, sees it in
an HCOB or HCO Pol Ltr a few days later.
Don’t for heaven’s sake mistake alter-is by somebody as evidence of a hidden line.
In Scientology we say “If it isn’t written it isn’t true”. That applies to orders. Somebody says “Ron said to . . .”
and on a veteran staff you hear the rejoinder “Let’s see it”. I’ve had raw meat walk into an org and say “Ron said I was
to have 25 hours of auditing”. And in the raw meat days of orgs, they sometimes were given it. So we have learned the
hard way-“If it isn’t written it wasn’t said”.
And that applies to anybody’s orders, not just mine.
And on tech and policy, it’s equally true. If it isn’t in an HCOB or an HCO Pol Ltr or recorded on a tape in my
voice, it isn’t tech or policy.
Next time you hear a pretended order or a squirrel process attributed to me, say “If it isn’t written or recorded it
isn’t true”.
And watch how tech results soar then in that area.
L. RON HUBBARD
LRH:ml.rd Copyright (C) 1965 by L. Ron Hubbard ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
(end fair use)
Personally the reason many of us are out here is because of the Org’s failure to apply the above PL.
Regarding the ‘New Yorker’.
Really Mike it’s a big as in huge magazine and I think the research staff will get over any ribbing that many us have given it over *mistakingly* thinking they couldn’t find Snake Thompson.
I think it’ll survive no how many peanuts the peanut gallery over here throws at it.
So honestly I don’t feel one iota of guilt for jibing them.
Sure if Wright calls me on it
I may apologize.
Till then skip it.
Now regarding JM.
Accusing me of being OSA is to quote Yosemite Sam:
“Dems Fightin’ Words!”
Also I noted that she made a comment earlier about me being skilled at SRAs or something to that effect which I ignored.
So obviously I’m not the only one being “combative”.
Personally I think JM’s halo is just a bit tarnished.
RJ — For the record, my comment concerned your response to Windhorse. Not JM (who is ALSO one of the sweetest, smartest people to grace this blog). Slow down Yosemite… You can holster those six shooters…
Oh and another thing Mike WH may be the kindest gentlest soul you know but he wasn’t that way with me when he jumped down my throat because a friend of mine reported seeing Ron’s Bluebird in the parking lot at flag in the mid 80’s as if the entire fate of nations hung on that one erroneous report.
BTW there are two sides to every argument. Actually three according to the 3rd Party tech.
RJ, I’m far from narrow-minded, or I wouldn’t have made it as far up the Bridge as I have.
Here is what I see from that doc: a crim – who may or may not have been trained – in the early 60s was running god knows what kind of auditing processes on other crims, including Manson.
Manson reportedly alternately loved and hated Scientology.
That doesn’t surprise me because knowing cases pretty well, I’d imagine he alternately loved and hated pretty much everything else in life. Why do I think so? Because they guy’s a fucking R/Sing psychotic!
Anyway, no, I don’t accept this doc as proof that Charles Manson received 150 hours of Scientology auditing.
Hi Sam-
Sorry I didnt respond sooner- I just shot you an email 🙂
OSA should get private lessons from Rainer Rupp, the most clever an smartest after war undercover agent (codename Topaz) of the earlier East German Gov, sitting in Nato Headquarter in Bruxelles Belgium. This guy was really a genius, simply because he was able to kept his cover, the most vital ability neccessary for spys. To hell with the noisy invest crap.
Well Okay Windhorse.
I agree we shouldn’t over sensationalize.
However we shouldn’t evade actual facts either because they *seem* sensational either.
The “cloak and dagger” is integral part of Scientology’s track even from the limited perspective of the GO and OSA.
Never mind the actual involvement of Government Intelligence agencies.
I know for a fact there are many in the Intelligence Community who would give their eye teeth for an actual psychic spy or one capable of psychokinesis and some who *know* that the original OT Levels are capable of producing one even while denying it.
If this seems too sensational well I’m sorry.
However to me it is another aspect to consider in the general malaise that has stricken the Organization.
Something that Ron himself suggested in the following PL:
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 10 JANUARY 1968
(Reissued from LRH SECED 56 INT June 14, 1965)
Remimeo
BPI
POLITICS. FREEDOM FROM
1. I hereby declare Scientology to be non-political and non-ideological.
2. Politics and ideology may be no part of any decision to train or process
individuals, and any such interrogation shall cease to be a part of any application for
training, processing or membership.
3. This does not change any policy relating to suppressive persons. It does
delete any words in any form which seek to bring about a statement of political
allegiance or antagonism.
4. It must be kept in mind and brought forward emphatically that Scientology
does not work in the absence of official control and no matter who sought to use its
principles, has uniformly failed in the hands of non-Scientologists and organizations
not controlled by the Central Organizations of Scientology or myself.
5. The reason for this declaration is the consistent disaster visited upon her
“allies” by the United States government and the efforts of that government since
1955, stepped up since 1963, to seize Scientology in the United States rather than
forbid or stop it and the role played by the United States in inspiring the Victorian
State attacks in Australia. Scientology technology is no longer offered to the United
States government in any effort to assist her in political ends. Our participation
extends only to our willingness to process U.S. officials as individuals unconnected
with their political aims, if as individuals they are not debarred by other existing
policies relating to treating the insane or our Ethics system.
6. All statements attacking any political entity or ideology are hereby
withdrawn and cancelled in any lectures or literature.
7. Scientologists may be members of any political group on this planet without
restraint only so long as these individuals or that group do not attempt to seize
Scientology for their own warlike ends and so make it unworkable or distasteful by
invidious connection.
8. Scientology is for a free people and is itself on this date declared free of any
political connection or allegiance of any kind whatever.
L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
LRH:jp.rd
Copyright © 1968
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
How do you know the Government hasn’t seized Scientology and left a shoddy tax exempt substitute led by a lunatic in its place as some have suggested?
You don’t and neither do I.
But I think it is a possibility worth exploring.
To suggest otherwise is *censorship*.
This is what many of us got out of what calls itself the “Church of Scientology” to avoid.
Also, for the record, there appears to be two distinct ‘Thompsons’ in question. One’s been cleared up, Snake, the other is on a completely different issue – LRH’s ‘separation’ and exactly what , who , where , why LRH performed for his country in the Navy, or any other service overt or ‘covert’ is where this other Thompson appears to have come up.
Just sayin’…for the record of these proceedings 🙂
RJ — let’s just agree that we don’t see eye to eye 🙂
My ex has been studying conspiracies, listening to various people, Icke, Rense, etc for as long as I’ve known him (over 30 years) starting with None Dare Call it Conspiracy way back when. We even had Joel Skousen (brother of Mark Skousen, nephew of Cleon Skousen) for a weekend of chatting.
So – these theories etc are not new to me.
Could the current church actually be run by some alphabet government agency? Certainly.
However, as I used to say to my ex — what difference does it make to OUR lives, knowing about all these international SPs etc. How does it make us more compassionate, friendly and better parents?
The same could be said about knowing XYZ agency runs the church. How does knowing that make us better people?
Instead it seems to make us oriented towards paranoia, having a lack of trust and certainly being TOO busy with “important” things to take the kids to the local zoo.
In any case, to me — these theories don’t really solve things. But simply become more fodder for endless speculation.
There never seems to be an ENDPOINT of these theories. The buck never STOPS anywhere you could hang your hat.
So — to me. Getting rid of dm is the focus. I concur he’s less than a genius and it seems impossible to imagine that he could pull off this capture of the church on his own. BUT, he’s supported by hard working, well intentioned staff who THINK they need to tow the line.
In any case, feel free to question my comments. Just as I will continue to comment when I read something from you or others that seems to be in direct conflict with my own personal observation of the facts because I lived them.
That’s fair, right 🙂
Oh, one more thing — I’m not Mr. WH but Ms. WH 🙂
WH
That is an interesting question Huck. Also interesting would be the ‘wedge issue’ Connolly brought up with Jason. It seems to me that the simplest way to deal with DA is to expose it and address it directly. After all, OSA’s only ‘power’ is in secrecy.
Joe
Thanks Mrs Windhorse or do you prefer Ms. 🙂
I have a confession to make.
Uh hum…..
Even though a good friend of mine in the GO recommended “None Dare Call it Conspiracy”
I never finished reading the whole book.
(I went back to reading the Lensman Series instead 😉 )
Regarding Icke as soon as he got to the part about the Royal family being lizards or something I tuned out totally.
I have a friend who’s a big fan of Lyndon LaRouche who nix the lizards is almost as bad as Icke.
One researcher I did have a com line in with before we had a falling out over Remote Viewing was Alex Constantine.
Another one is Richard Dolan who wrote ‘UFOs and The National Security State” and Gary Bekkum who posts a blog entitled Spies, Lies and Polygraph tape and recently wrote a book ‘Knowing the Future, UFO Spy Games’.
All three above have done impeccable research with documents to back ’em up.
I also a big fan of the late Fletcher Prouty, who wrote the “Secret Team”.
So I’m not just your average Conspiracy wacko.
I’d say I was above average 😉
However I do agree with what you say to paraphrase via Bogie that it don’t amount to a hill of beans if some alphabet soup agency has taken over using Davy as their favored sock puppet and now what seems their patsy.
I mean we still have the tech right.
Still we should be aware that the scene goes well beyond some insane nut ball who calls himself COB who is trailed by a claque of camp followers that call him “sir” and follow his insanely destructive simple simon orders.
That way we don’t fall into the same trap again.
Also the Government connection if there is one should be exposed for what it is and that is a blatant violation of the First Amendment.
I have no problem with members of the Intelligence Community receiving Scientology processing.
The only problem I have is when these guys try to take over the place and steer it toward some other agenda.
Anyway thats my think on the whole scene.
However though we may disagree on some things I’m sure we agree on many.
Windhorse if you or your Conspiracy minded other half would like to contact me.
You can both reach me at:
archangel88(AT)hushmail(DOT)com
Ml
Robin AKA RJ
“I don’t care if you are a kid posting with a pseudonym or the chairman of some gigantic corporation, or the head of the FBI for that matter. In that regard, one poster demanded I confess to the FBI. Well, his J.Edgar heroes had me under intense surveillance, ran informants in on me, and tapped my phone over an extended period of time – all while I was in. When I got the two feet of transcripts of my phone calls through FOIA, the agent who ran the operation told me,”we did our best, but you just wouldn’t take the bait.” So, a) they are the last people who are entitled to any confession by me, and b) I know for a fact they don’t have the balls to ask for one. And that goes to the very top, to the punk (and I use the word advisedly from personal experience) who spent a year travelling around the globe trying to put me behind iron bars.”
http://75.125.131.44/proxy/index.php?q=aHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtLmV4c2NuLm5ldC9zaG93cG9zdC5waHA%2FcD0yMDMyNjMmYW1wO3Bvc3Rjb3VudD0x
Joe Lynn
I had meant to publish this as a question, labeled under a subject line of ‘Change of Heart?’, but, apparently I fucked up. Thanks for actually posting it Marty. As much as I may disagree with you I’m often surprised 🙂
Joe
Agreed, Joe. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant.
Well Okay Huck,
Sorry if I insinuated or implied that you were “narrow minded”.
Actually I came right out and said it.
But we’ll move beyond that 😉
You’re right.
Manson probably never received what you or I would consider auditing and probably more closely matches Squirrel Tech (TM) given at the orgs these days.
If that.
The fact that he hung out at the Process which is sorta like Church of Satan lite with some BOTWO Scn “tech” thrown in after he got out of the joint.
Shows you were his head was at.
So he had some connection to Scientology.
BFD.
Hitler as far as I know was a Lutheran.
Let’s face it the creepo critics like to exploit this stuff.
Maybe it makes their weanies feel bigger.
Who knows.
However Constantine ain’t one of those.
His research is fairly meticulous though he does tend to leaps of logic and of faith.
The main angle I believe in the case of Manson is the intelligence angle and the fact that spooks love to use “cults” as cover for more sordid ops.
Anyway that’s my view.
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/latimes/ingram012781.htm
I think it was Kady who went by his house back in ’99? and there were two cars there. One Ca. license #OT GAMES and the other WAR ROOM. I’ve always wondered whose those were.
Joe
Or Marcus Wolfe before he kicked the bucket.
Head of East German Intel who ran circles around Western Intel.
Maybe if their lucky they might get the cell right next to Robert Hanssen or Aldridge Ames 🙂
Is it me or is Davey heading for a sexual discrimination suit as well?
Apology accepted, RJ. My point is that it serves us no good at all to be perceived as tin foil hat-wearing lunatics who constantly point to conspiracy theories in order to explain the world. We’re smarter than that.
Also, as you correctly point out, the implanted degraded freaks whose life mission is to destroy Scientology just love to throw out shit like, “Manson got 150 hours of Scientology auditing” which in their A=A=A rat trap of a mind translates into Scientology made Manson do what he did. Well, no, it didn’t.
Like you, I personally believe all kinds of nefarious things are going on behind the curtains. But to me the way to out those who live in the shadows is to shed light upon them and their deeds and the way to do that is Time, Place, Form and Event. Cold, hard facts.
Look at Julian Assange. There’s no plausible deniability, he’s got the docs.
Jim, your right. 2 thompsons, from from lrh’s youth and the “navy” one, who may or may not have existed.
“My point is that it serves us no good at all to be perceived as tin foil hat-wearing lunatics who constantly point to conspiracy theories in order to explain the world.”
Hey!
I resent that remark!!!
Jus’ kidding 😉
Huck,
Mainly the problem with “conspiracy theories” is guilt by association.
I mean I’ve known a few spooks or spies myself in my past even audited a couple of them.
Does this give me some deep dark connection to the Agency?
I mean it would be nice ’cause I hear they have a bitchin’ retirement package and awesome 401k.
Also they tend to exaggerate the malevolence of such people.
(I mean how many times on TV or in the movies have you seen some kinda “wet team” sent out by the NSA?
When in reality the average NSA employee is like some kind of IT geek.
You know with the plastic pocket protector, slicked back hair, white shirt and still wearing polyester pants.
Ewwww scary dudes!)
Most of them like most Government employees are pretty nice people.
Not all them are the epitome of evil even the G-men that came to CCHR to inspect our files on NME were all pretty nice.
However just like everywhere else you’re gonna get a few SPs in the mix and the PTSes who go along with them.
Like ya know….
And since guys like Constantine don’t know anything about SP/PTS Tech they go off onto some kinda tandem that’s way out there.
Also as you say they tend to have a vivid imagination at times.
Confusing capabilities with the potential capabilities covered say… in Science Fiction.
Like for example I got into an e-mail discussion with him about the Remote Viewing project which he dismissed as some kind of fallacy.
I wrote back saying that the descriptions of various targets in many of the RV reports were fairly accurate.
He wrote back to me saying that the reason for the accurate descriptions was because they had a spy satellite somewhere beaming down holographic images back to the remote viewers and I was “deluded” in thinking that it had anything to do with psychic phenomenon!
Okay so I was “deluded” for suggesting that these accurate descriptions of the target were because of psychic phenomenon while he considered himself quite rational in suggesting that we as in our Government had the capability to project images directly into the brain via satellite!
I was going to suggest Reynold’s wrap works pretty good at preventing the Government from injecting holographic images into the mind but we broke off communication at that point.
Especially after he suggested I move to somewhere in Idaho with all the other “wackos”.
Anyway I thought Alex had a wee bit of a problem with projection but it had nothing to do with holographic imaging.
Though like I said he does do meticulous research and does track down and interview various sources though he tends to fall for the occasional disinformation and misdirection like in the case of Ingo who told him that his psychic ability had nothing to do with Scientology which is completely contrary what Ingo said in not one but two Celebrity Magazine interviews.
So in the case of Alex you got to read between the lines sometimes.
Like in the case of the Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake suicides there is a Scientology connection due to Beck being involved however the spooks assigned to the case by OSA or maybe someone else must have been pros like the ones who followed Art around which I suspect is the case when high value targets are involved.
Not that Marty and Mike aren’t HVTs but I think OSAs approach is to scare off Scientology public by being overt.
What spooks call cascading “surveillance” which is more an intimidation tactic than actual surveillance.
You will also notice that Alex doesn’t exploit this connection like the crazy critics. He mainly just mentions it and moves his research to other areas.
Even though he may think Scientology is bunk. He pretty much respects other people’s religious freedom.
So you got to admire him for that.
Anyway Huck.
Sometimes I tend to go on and on.
But you are right that we shouldn’t go off into the conspiracy theory hinterland and just stick to facts.
Ml
RJ
You know what I like about you, RJ … you’re alive, buddy! There’s a lot to be said for that. Keep it up! ML, Huck
I know RJ. But for me its a big difference, if one is sitting in an office
coordinating action, or working self BEHIND the front lines. It feels
like this: http://www.manonwire.com
Thrill thrill thrill. 🙂
So true SW,
Loved the metaphor 🙂
This is what happens when you turn a church into a clandestine operations agency. You set up disinformation agents to further muck up an already obscured story. And when you’re running intelligence ops instead evangelical outreach you send out bizarre emails like this one that was sent out today … “I want to let you know that the Sea Organization is here, in OC. They are
here to handle the org and make it a safe place.
Come in. We look forward to seeing you.
Much Love,
Orange County Org”
So my question is does anybody feel safer now?
Oh yeah,
The way the SO has been operating since the early 80’s with heavy ethics, random demotions and dismissals plus gang bang “sec checking” and other procedures that rival CIA’s “enhanced interrogation techniques”.
It makes me feel “safe”, not!
Like it’d a cold day in hell before I’d set foot in OC org.
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I’m definitely staying tuned to see what you have Marty, because right now all you’ve got is a memo that doesn’t prove that Connolly was working for Scientology. Can you produce some real proof? You seem to be indicating as much. Good luck with that.
I filed dozens of stories on the cult while you were in, and many more since you blew. Connolly often knew about these stories before they were published, and he never sold me out.
Best,
Mark Ebner
If you weren’t such a prick, I’d show you how you were infiltrated. But, you’d have to employ some basic civil self-decency and ask nicely.
Marty,
We don’t have to get into name calling man. I’m stepping up in defense of a long time friend and colleague and asking for some proof, and you’re calling me a “prick” for doing so.
Anyway, can you kindly show me how I was infiltrated by John Connolly? By the way, I’ve long known about his “relationship” with Gene Ingram.
Thanks,
Mark Ebner
Mark, I am not talking about Connolly in your case. You can email me.
Marty – I sent you an email, but I’m not sure if I had the correct address on file. I’ll re-send if you shoot me a note: MarkEbner59@gmail.com
Thanks.
Yeah, I got it.
Does anyone know if this is the same Connolly who wrote for Spy Magazine in the 90’s?
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