“Beyond The Pale Of What A Human Being Should Endure”

That is how Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten’s attorney characterizes what Debbie was put through by Scientology Inc.

Tony Ortega at the Village Voice published the first interview with the Baumgarten’s San Antonio litigation attorney Ray Jeffrey.   As I think you will see from the article, Ray has the right attitude going into what may be the biggest legal war of his long career.

Ray has bent over backward to stretch his firm’s pricing standards to make his quality, aggressive representation available to Debbie and Wayne.  And while their defense will likely continue to cost 1/2oth of what Miscavige’s Death Star is pouring into this unprecedented assault on constitutional and human rights, Debbie and Wayne are going to need a huge support base to wage this battle with the beast toe to toe.

Mike Rinder and I both attest that Ray Jeffrey is the best possible man to have in Debbie and Wayne’s corner.  In fact, I don’t think there is anyone in San Antonio, or anywhere else for that matter, who better fits the bill.

For those who have made contributions to Debbie and Wayne’s defense, your donations are well invested.  You are very much appreciated by all of us.  To those who haven’t and wish to contribute, you can do so at Debbie’s personal webpage (see donate to legal defense fund notice in upper right hand margin): Debbie’s legal defense fund.

This is not going to be easy, but the line in the sand had to be drawn in San Antonio.



119 responses to ““Beyond The Pale Of What A Human Being Should Endure”

  1. expelled 4 Life

    Marty is right. This is the line in the sand. If you haven’t already done so, donate to Debbie’s defense now!!!

  2. It’s pure happiness that Debbie has such a competent and willing attorney. The first step toward victory for her. I anticipate this will be a very beneficial time for us all. I hope the misdeeds of the church and it’s leader miscavige are exposed for all to see.

  3. I would not want my ‘help flow’ turned into a damaging one. Can I donate to the defense fund and not ‘taint’ Ms. Cook? Dam the torpedoes and all that but I don’t want to aim any at her inadvertently.
    Just checkin’.

  4. This is the best part of the article to me:

    And Debbie? Is she up for a prolonged fight?

    “For 17 years she supervised well over a thousand employees, managed a budget of 150 million dollars a year, worked extreme hours, had incredible pressures,” Jeffrey says. “You know that saying, that which does not kill you makes you stronger? Well, she’s ready.”

    Our first donation is done!

  5. martyrathbun09

    Of course. Thank you.

  6. My first donation to this important fund too. Even if not a lot, anything is better than nothing. A friend of mine once said “The wrong thing to do is nothing.” :o)

  7. Irony of the line in the sand being in San Antonio. Your post yesterday was well placed. But until you VISIT the Alamo, and see for yourself where the history of it all went down, your just scratching the surface.

    In the scouts, years ago, we biked “the Mission Trail.” Over a dozen spanish missions that still stand in the city of San Antonio can be visited and hear the storys of the lives lived and lost back in the 1800’s. Real history.

    And now comes Hop-a-long Dave. David Miscaviage, after being advised against attacking Debbie and her husband, circumvented sanity YET AGAIN in order to “be right.” OH….. so fitting he picks here and now to make his stand. The postulate was long and hard the he make his fall from Scientology FROM Texas, but how could that be? I just couldn’t see it at the time.

    And yet, here we are. In Texas. And he is doomed to fail.
    A better script could not be written.

    And now… on with the show!!!

  8. Absolutely – “pure happiness” is just how I feel. I had just, not half an hour ago, received an appreciative mail from Debbie thanking me for the donation, and I said out loud, “I hope it is well spent”. Now I know it is. Go Debbie!

  9. Here is the promo for a Bruce Wiseman (IAS) fund raiser to be held this weekend at the Pasadena Org. I think he has it right that “..the forces of darkness do not want the light of truth shown” and that “This is the David and Goliath battle of all time”.

    Ah, what delicious irony!

    On Saturday we are honored by having Bruce Wiseman speak at 3:00 pm. This is what he had to say:

    “There has never been a time like this. Never. We are bringing a religion of truth to a prison planet. And the forces of darkness do not want the light of truth shown. Oh no.

    “But here we come: This is the most fascinating…and challenging time on the entire whole track. This is whole track history. And we are in it, right now. This is the David and Goliath battle of all time. And at this Saturday’s event you will hear some of the greatest victories of all time – and some of the greatest challenges.

    You do not want to miss this.”

    Bruce Wiseman

    Can I confirm you?

  10. Uh oh! Meltdown in the Miscavige bunker.
    Debbie’s got her game on and no amount of OSA 3P games are going to stop the world uniting behind her:
    Indies, Anons, journalists, freezoners, ex-Scientologists, wogs and dogs; All the people Miscavige loves to hate…. Let’s get ready to rumble! 😀

  11. First Donation Done…… 🙂

    Good Luck Debbie!!!!!!!

  12. That is an awesome quote. This is so incredibly true that I found myself nodding and saying “Damn right!”

    Debbie Cook against the pipsqueak of Hemet? No cussing contest.

  13. Donation sent on Debbie’s site.

    This is so egregious it makes me spitting mad.

    I mean, remember – this is a reaction to an EMAIL sent to friends, which recounted time, place, form and event, with correct policy references, and no confidential information. Everything she talked about in her email was very publicly known – the strategies employed by Mr. David Miscavige, and the LRH policies she listed that he is violating.

    Again, this is a single email.

    Mr. David Miscavige, you are an idiot, and do not deserve to be the leader of anything, let alone the RTC.

  14. “Here we are surrounded in this society by lots of people who say, Oh well, there’s nothing I can do about it. But clearly to me, this is and seems to be a situation that one can’t say that about. For the first time we’re faced with the fact that, the absolute fact, that exactly the wrong thing to do is nothing.” L. Ron Hubbard (from Audio CD — Amazon.com has it.)

  15. It´s Mr. Nothing who dramatize being Mr. Something.
    School dropout, failed as an auditor because of out ethics, no OEC/FEBC, a loser.

  16. Marty, can you tell Bluebonnet, and any other readers who may wish to do so, how to donate anonymously? I would think that if there is a reliably anonymous method of donating, that would bring Debbie another whole class of donors who might otherwise be understanably paranoid, considering who the opposing litigant is.

  17. Simply Revolting

    Donation sent.
    Will send more:
    ‘Let the Games begin!’

  18. Great article in the Village Voice. Unbelievable that David Miscavige would get a restraining order that’s so broad it prohibits Debbie from getting an attorney to defend herself. Miscavige must have thought he had things all wrapped up. Too bad for you dwarf because she didn’t cave.

    DM is about to get quite a reality adjustment. He may be king of the cult but he’s just a rabid rat to the rest of society. The court will deal with him.

  19. Marty,
    Thank you for posting.

    IF YOU WANT TO HELP BUT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR DONATION BEING DISCOVERED and your family then harassed, note that there is a PO Box number you can use for mailing. You can find discreet ways to donate anonymously. Her success will help you and yours, so it is only fair to offer her some assistance in the effort to restore real integrity within our greater group.


  20. Joe Pendleton

    My GUESS is that Miscavige would be thrilled to get a one dollar from Debbie settlement IF it includes a non-disclosure agreement on the settlement if it is accompanied by Debbie’s agreement to abide by the original gag agreement she signed. I think the whole strategy is his looking to the future to keep people shut up. We still don’t know if Debbie even wants to keep speaking out about the COS. Should be interesting to see what happens.

  21. by the way, some may choose to mail a money order anonymously, but I think there would be another whole level of donations if there is an online “firewalled” anonymous method. Thank you to Debbie and Wayne for standing up, and to all who are helping.

  22. Joe Pendleton

    What REALLY interested me (fascinated me actually) and indicated to me about Scientology when I first found out about it was all the data that seemed so fresh and new and so REAL – whether it be about the reactive mind, communication, the cycle of action, etc. I have to say that I’ve been disappointed (to say the least) how Scientology rhetoric, PR, etc has moved into the area of “religious myth.” It didn’t start with the opening to “Keeping Scientology Working”, but man, is the old “complete righteousness battling the forces of total evil” being milked for everything it is worth. This may or may not be the whole story of the past 75 million years, but it sure does look to me that this is the story that beings have learned to love above all else. The battle of these forces has rallied the troops in EVERY MAJOR RELIGION and the stories of these battles make up a large part of the myths of every religion (Scientology sadly included). Well, maybe it’s all true I don’t know. I’m reminded of an old saying though that “You can have God without religion, but you can’t have religion without the Devil.” I’m sure somewhere along the line Mr. Wiseman will be asking for his audience to fork over their cash (as Miscavige&Co don’t have enough money to keep fighting the forces of evil – the dirty, rotten psychs).

  23. Another sticky issue the Church may be asked to address is the “volunteer status” of Debbie Cook. Whenever a former staffer complains about pay or conditions the Church asserts they were “volunteers”. But according to the Tampa article on this, there is a quote from Mike Rinder which suggests the Church considers it’s “volunteers” contracted staff members:

    “Former church spokesman Mike Rinder, who also left the staff in 2007, said the agreements they signed are similar to a document the church used to settle litigation and disputes during the last several years he oversaw the church’s legal operations. The nondisclosure language evolved as the church negotiated settlements, he said. It also became “boilerplate” for staff termination contracts, he said.”

    Why would any “vounteer” be held to any contract?

    The Church is the one that maintains that these people are only ” volunteers”. Why would any “volunteer” be held to A CONTRACT? Either coming or going? Why would any “volunteer”: be given a “termination contract”? Would you “terminate” a “volunteer”?

  24. If she was there on a “volunteer” basis, would they have any real rights to hold her to any employee contract?

  25. And why would anyone give a “volunteer” severence pay?

  26. Miscavige kann sich warm anziehen. Means – he can batten down the hatches.
    Debbie has my support.

  27. Agreed. I wanted to know a bit about who the funds would go to. I’m going to donate again – I like this guy’s understated cool.

  28. The Church would need to acknowledge if they in fact did consider her an employee, they owe her back wages for the years she worked. I think that would amount to a lot more than they are seeking in damages. However, if a publishing company did arrive at the courthouse and cough up the amount the Church is seeking in damages, at that point the publishing company would have bought out her contract. So, the Church has basically offered the rights to sell her story for the amount they are seeking in damages. This could actually work out very well so everyone has a win. 🙂

  29. I refer you to the following for instructions on how to make anonymous donations online:


    Follow at your own risk, they sound kosha though.

  30. one of those who see

    My postulate is that because of what Debbie and Wayne are doing added to all the efforts of all other Free Scientologists that Freedom of Speech will be returned to all Scientologists. Meaning we can speak and write without fear of disconnection from our loved ones.

    Had a thought today after hearing ANOTHER story of a Scientologist in good standing being refused service till she does more steps first. This is a whole other topic regarding the insanity going on in the Church. “Many are called, few are chosen” is now the motto applied to the public! Oh, they’ll take all your kids in the Sea Org. But, Scientologists who are not illegal pcs, who are in good standing get turned away from the orgs. Then I realized… by barring the doors shut, they are actually protecting the public from the gross out tech of not training auditors, invalidating your clear state and C/Sing you down the bridge with a purif to redo and overrun objectives. And, I guess they are also protecting staff and sea org members by not allowing anyone to make bridge progress.

  31. I am praying that this case becomes a precedent, rather than relying on precedents.
    It is a truly unique situation, and it should be viewed as such.

    Here we have a formally organized church, with legally constitued boards of directors charged with the duty of ensuring that the church retain certain core values as laid out by its founder. The various checks and balances are supposed to ensure the intent and purity of the delivery remain true and ethical.

    The tryant who usurped control of the church screams bloody murder that what he’s doing is protected by the first amendment and separation of church and state.
    In this tyrants opinion he is entitled to immunity on religious grounds. He is entitled to engage in human trafficking; beating subordinates; forcing abortions; holding good people prisioner; altering the technology; having a middle aged women stand in a garbage can with water poured on her head and a lesbo sign hung on with screaming lunatics demanding she confess “her” crimes. The list of alterations and abuses would fill a full sized novel.
    Nope, can’t look at any of those crimes. They are all protected by my religion, says the tyrant.

    On the other hand, this same tyrant runs to the courts to have the non-secular government punish anyone who disobeys the tyrants dictates.

    I am praying that the court will see the duplicity, the irony and the criminal intent and criminal behavior of david miscavige and have miscavige’s lawyers spinning in circles trying to cover up his abuses.

  32. A restraining order so broad that it prohibits Debbie hiring an attorney !
    That’s right, David Miscavige believes he can trump a basic constitutional right.
    A continuity of THUGGERY he engages in where Sea Org members are not permitted free passage, no use of cell phones, no computers with internet access, no phone calls to family unless “monitored” by security, their sleep areas routinely searched for “contraband” by “Security” and passport confiscation.
    So a TRO where she cannot hire legal counsel !
    If Debbie’s letter went viral, we can only wait and see how VIRAL this court case will go.
    Hurray for Ray Jeffrey !
    Debbie Cook has more support than even she realizes.

  33. I’ve always felt that the primary reason Ron called Scientology a religion (and I do think it is one, by the way) is to lessen the control that governments could exert on it. Staff are not “employees” – they are “religious workers”; “contracts” are really “religious committments”; penalties for breaking contracts are “pennance”, etc etc etc Almost ALL of what goes in the COS can be classified under the First Ammendment clause of “free exercise of religion.” (almost anything goes except for homicide, assault, other forms of physical or sexual abuse, embezzlement, malicious fraud, slavery, etc – and many of these very difficult to prove against any religion). This is how the Headleys lost their case on the minimum wage issue.

  34. George M. White

    Message to Debbie Cook from Boethius:

    “Why, then, shouldst thou feel affright
    At the tyrant’s weakling might?
    Dread him not, nor fear no harm,
    And thou shall his rage disarm”


  35. One other thing I would like to say to every single person who is aware of the workability of the tech and is concerned about our future “rights” to deliver it freely.

    The line in the sand could not be more clear. Debbie has pointed out specific policy and tech violations all of which lead directly to miscavige and his alterations and abuses. She is, of course, only scratching the surface of the list of crimes miscavige is guilty of.
    Everything Debbie pointed out is 100% accurate in her evaluation.

    You who are afraid to speak out, afraid to make yourself known, afraid of being targetted by miscavige, are tacitly giving him power by your silence. I know some of you are going to ridge on this being brought up again. I am not a dictator and I have no power over anyone.

    I do however have a right to speak my mind, and Marty has graciously set up this blog so we all have a venue to speak our minds.

    The line in the sand is purely and simply this: You are either with david miscavige or you are with LRH.

    If you are with LRH, then do the doubt formula and publicly announce your decision on who you are supporting to both sides. Do it now. Every one of you who quits being afraid and speaks out gives power to Debbie’s and LRHs purpose. Every one of you who remains silent gives power to miscavige.

    Tyrants only rule because good men do nothing.

    “The wrong thing to do is nothing.”

  36. LDW
    Perfectly said. Perfectly true.

  37. Very cool. Jeffrey is bigtime, and has 20+ years of battle hardened trial skills under his belt. He’s a trial attorney and he’s going into this hard right out of the gate, not even waiting for the TRO to expire. It’s the right strategic move – it signals to the Co$ that he’s not going to let his client get screwed around with. More importantly, it gets him in front of the judge sooner, and in a way that allows him to easily make the Co$ look like bad guys who are being totally unreasonable. This is going to be good.

  38. Les,
    Two cogent and compelling posts. Bang on.

  39. All true except for one note. Just because someone has not made a declaration , does not automatically mean they have “done nothing”.

  40. And while David Miscavige’s legal leeches demand in courts that she not be allowed to utter a word, he orders missions to all corners of the world to round up the 12,000 plus who may have received or heard of her email, he third parties the heck out of her, and he threatens the email recipients with Scientology hell (disconnection/expulsion from all hope and humanity for eternity) if they dare contemplate, investigate, or communicate about the points in her email.

    David Miscavige’s personal bonuses will probably be diminished because his stats are going down at the upper levels (someone posted on how he rigged his own stats and bonuses some months ago).

    On second thought, he’s probably already changed his bonus structure to square feet of building space multiplied times the number of yards of Ideal org ribbons cut times number of auto play dissemination machines installed.

  41. I do understand that. I am not a judge or jury or decider of virtue or lack thereof. Only the individual himself knows if he’s helping or simply cowering and waiting for others to do the hard work by putting their own necks on the line.

  42. Make no mistake about it – it isn’t money DM wants from Debbie – he wants her very life. He wants to squeeze the life force from her. He wants to squash her like a bug. He wants her life destroyed. Yes, he wants to gag her and anyone else who ever considers crossing him. But it is much more diabolical than that. He is a sadistic f… who wants anyone he perceives as an enemy dead – physically, emotionally, and spiritually – and he will stop at nothing to accomplish that.

    Therefore, we must all band together to protect her and all the future “Debbies”.

  43. TO,
    Yes, you are right. Case in point is Debbie Cook. She has spoken clearly and in a manner that brings into stark relief exactly what David Miscavige is doing: he is attacking Scientologists for PRACTICING Scientology.

    The sweet irony in the Non Disclosure Agreements (an added inapplicable) is that they are in complete contradiction to the fundamental practices of Scientology one key component being AR and C. C being THE operative component of dissolution of any and all aberration. They are in utter opposition to the very principles of the subject. They CUT communication.

    The TRO is a CUTTING of comm. One of the points Debbie makes in her email is a reference to An Essay On Management and the admonition to “drop no curtain” on free communication between the public and the group.

    The NDAs are the epitome of ANTI Scientology. They MAKE bank.

    Another thing that occurs to me at this point; Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun are taking responsibility in the plainest of fashion for any part they played in the creation of these NDAs. THAT is the very definition of ethical.

  44. one of those who see


  45. martyrathbun09

    Yvonne, you couldn’t have put it more bluntly and accurately. Thank you.

  46. In order for Ray Jeffery to say Debbie’s treatment was “beyond the pale of what a human being should endure” you just know she’s talking now. Maybe at this stage it’s only to her attorney but the point is…..she’s talking. In other words, DM can take his TRO and shove it because he no longer has any power over her. None.

    DM is so out of present time, so stuck in a time warp, he doesn’t even realize that the way he rules the cult and the RPF, with no constitutional rights, doesn’t cut it out in society. Now with this court case gearing up, society will know exactly what evil he’s been up to. It’ll surpass viral. It’s going to go pandemic.

    You almost have to feel a bit of pity for the cult’s attorney in this case. Almost. There’s no way he realizes what he’s taken on for a client.

  47. Damn, Miscavige is sure messing around with the wrong Marine. Debbie Cook is 100 times stronger as a thetan than he will ever be. He hides behind his high security prison in the desert, has armed security guards, bullet proof cars, a bevy of slimey lawyers and PIs, and billions of dollars at his disposal. I think Ken-Dick Moxon (convicted prick) has met his match. I have no doubt little ole Debbie will come up on top of this while Corporate Scientology will be exposed as a very corrupt organization. Things are about to get ugly. Miscavige should start planning his escape route to whatever South American country is willing to take war criminals.

  48. A burning question for the Court: Does David Miscavige have the power to buy out the right to PRACTICE one’s religion?

    Does the contract signed by Debbie Cook, selling her free speech, ALSO preclude the PRACTICE of Scientology, which is technically founded on free and open communication?

    Will the Court decide that indeed, the Constitution can be bought and sold and rights mean nothing but a “commodity” traded to the highest bidder?

    This case is a CONSTITUTIONAL case. It is the heart of the matter. The guaranteed right to PRACTICE one’s chosen religion.

    Contractual law is the least of the issues. First Amendment rights of religious practice trump them. Dave has indeed overreached his illusion with this one.

    Bottom line: David Miscavige has relentlessly pursued and attacked any person who dares to and does PRACTICE Scientology.

  49. Very true re Miscavige attacking any person who practices Scientology. With the lawsuit against Debbie, that exact point is clear for all to see. DM has tried for years to hide it under the guise of attacking “squirrels”. Thanks to the lawsuit, the real DM has been exposed. Looks to me like Debbie flushed him out. For that alone, the first round goes to Debbie. Dwarf: 0.

  50. RIGHT ON Jim Logan! Thank you.

  51. Right. Gonna donate some more in a couple of weeks. We got to take care of our peeps!

  52. Karen,

    Here’s my summation of David Miscavige’s operating basis:

    1. If it moves – stop it.

    2. If it keeps moving – beat it.

    3. If it stops moving – send it to the Rehabilitation Project Force.

  53. All good points, Oracle. That last one was kinda funny too!

  54. Spot on LDW, all posts are astoundingly correct, and good on ya for speaking your mind. There are certainly more and more speaking up. From within and out of the church. Rightness, rectitude and the truth prevail in every case; Debbie the first one to deliver a blow from within the church. Many will follow, many will see the truth.

  55. Les and Jim-In the last week or so there are 6 people I have come across who have seen the light because of Debbies letter. Ron talked about truth being able to go through 6 feet of steel. That is what is happening here-all she is doing is communicating the truth. A very worthwhile activity to support.
    DM-you are soooo history.

  56. Les and the above reply-ers,

    Superb summation of the situation, Les. Robert, right on. Excellent points Oracle and Jim. And finally, to one of those who see… Exactly.

  57. This is a good take on what happens to evil ints- dm is melting!

  58. retired, extremely dangerous

    What gets me is this.

    You have a pseudo leader supposedly of the Scientology world who got thrown out of his Class IV internship at St. Hill for assaulting his pc. He clearly can’t audit or have any idea what it means to audit a pc. He has no admin training, tech training, evaluator training or experience thereof in any arena of LRH ethics tech, or admin tech.


    And this lousy excuse for a senior exec has the balls to do anything else but KISS THE GROUND SHE WALKS ON? He ought to be kissing her ass for all the money she made for him. This Scotch drinkin midget thinks he’s going to get anywhere with this bullshit just because he thinks he can scorch the ground she walks on with his high priced lawyers?

    This is not just anyone this jerk is threatening. Yea he’s got the present pseudo Capt FSO “Bully” Harvey Jacques of the FSO in his corner. But this bully is all bark and no bite, just a fat bully who enjoys regging money for his Senior Dwarf who has a multi-toothed She Tiger by the tail. Be careful, that bite will take a whole meal outta your hide and as little as you are, she’ll swallow you whole!!!
    I’ve had my vent

  59. It would be good to know if Debbie needs any particular issues, FO’s, SPD’s, etc. that would help her case (without jeopardizing any strategy).

  60. LDW….you are spot on. I did my doubt formula in October 2009. I’m with LRH and I will be helping Debbie Cook and her husband Wayne in their fight for truth and freedom.

  61. I’m thinking the folk of Texas are going to be performing with some common sense. They do not care about what someone in California bought. They are not Californians. I have never seen the words “religious workers”; “religious committments”; “pennance” in any Scientology text or conversation. Just because a judge in California Q and A ed with this in California does not mean it is going to happen in Texas.

  62. Very well put Jim.
    I’m hopeful the Constitution will be treated as senior to manipulated law practices. Just because someone signs something, that surely doesn’t waiver the founding principles under which the constitution was ratified.
    I have began a flow to Debbie & Wayne and watch with great anticipation.

  63. Yvonne,you nailed it.

  64. +1000000000

  65. Outstanding Jim Logan.

  66. Hi Marty,

    Just a comment on the “straght up and vertical” success of miscavige diseminating Scientology. I hope you can see this grapth. It is from Alexa.com comparing
    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com against

    As of now they seem to be neck to neck in traffic.

    Thanks Miscavige you are really making it (not!)

  67. retired extremely dangerous, lots of truth in that rant!

  68. Yes, Ingrid. And the armor plate that the corporate C of S Kool-Aid drinkers have built up around them is about as flimsy as the tinfoil hat that Miscavige wears to bed at night.

  69. Donation sent.

    “Think for yourself” said the Scn ad I recently read. Thank you for the tip. I did.

    It makes me sick to my stomach that we have to defend our right to free speech from the Church of Scientology of all things. How could this picture be more wrong…? Only one way: if we didn’t do something to defend it.

  70. Got a nice thank you note from Debbie for my donation. Am sending more.

    Are some of you in Central Texas going to attend the hearing(s) and give us a first-hand report?

  71. Donation done and will continue as requests come in. This is EPIC, a religion suing one of its own for the “crime” of pointing out policy violations as laid down by their own Founder!

  72. Yvonne ~~
    You have worded this so well.
    “To overwhelm by superior force, by disconnection, fair game, litigation to destroy them utterly, to menace and assault psychologically is the “Church” strategy.
    If I had endured SP Hole like Debbie had ~~ I too would have signed any document to depart.
    Marty covered Debbie’s SP hole experience here ~~
    In this day and age the rank and file are afraid to talk about their basic feelings even in a session. Any thought against the atrocities, the vicious heavy ethics, the punishments, and predatory management extortion of funds are labelled as
    “attacks”, “Black PR” “Apostates” “Entheta”.
    Dramatizing kidnap, held against will, lockdown at INT base with beatings, SP hole seances, and cruelties on INT execs are in in reality creating greater and more dangerous problems.
    It is really good that Debbie knows and has experienced the length and breadth of SP hole and the modern day torture dramatized at INT base under the orders of David Miscavige.
    No wonder they are hyper ventilating to gag her.
    Not to mention a ton of other hdden criminality.
    Armies win when their supply lines are alive and well.
    Never have their been so many willing to pitch in and help the “supply” line.
    Never in the history of serious litigation have Marty and Mike both together with some 40 years of Church litigation experience, been the OTHER side of the fence…..

  73. Random Stranger

    The Church of Scientology and It’s Products

    How is it that the Church keeps producing horrible products that it has to condemn as horrifically suppressive such as the Marty Rathbuns, Mike Rinders and Debbie Cooks of the world, to say nothing of the phone book size list of others from doormen to celebrities who became bad and suppressive suddenly after decades of application of its Tech and years and years and years of commitment and service and tries to tear their lives apart and shut them up? Any non-brainwashed person in their right mind can easily see there is something deeply and seriously wrong with the Church.

    If it’s own application of the Tech really is pristine and 100% workable then there is something wrong with the Tech itself in order for the above scenario to exist. One or the other, something is very, very, very rotten in Denmark and it stinks like a caved in cesspool.

    The Church stands on the foundation and legacy of the written Tech to carry out and justify its black programs and its abuse. It’s all in the policies, tapes and bulletins and proprietary confidential issues written by L. Ron Hubbard. It is all there, the disconnection, the attitude, the philosophy of over reaching, the importance at stake of why to apply the materials, the beingness of ethics officers, the whole Captain Bligh thing, the better dead than incapable stance, the KSW hard line, the punishments, the tolerance of violence, the whole gambit is there, already written by Source. Most of it is open to interpretation as to HOW it should be applied so therefore it is assimilated and interpreted completely literally or shrewdly manipulated and therefore the potential for over-reaching abuse is unlimited within the entirety of its ranks. Only outside pressure, like when the Church was slammed with FBI raids and the resulting consequences from Operation Snow White did it itself systemically address that part of its own justified corruption. Unfortunately, the corruption was merely reorganized and buried and took a different road with different targets and altered means of address.

    Let’s take the body of scripture pertaining to Suppressives and Disconnection for instance. Why is it tolerated that someone has to be labeled something that they are not? Let’s assume that the data about suppressives is in and of itself true, the supposed 2% who’s minds are whacko and they are trying to destroy everything because they are fighting unconscious battles from long ago. Because someone doesn’t like Scientology or the Church and speaks out against it in part or in whole, they are considered to be and are labeled as a Suppressive. That’s just plain total bullshit. The majority of people I’ve met from all walks of life, in the street, in business, in the arts in various cities across this country and the world who’ve heard of Scientology have told me they do not like it. Even though they may have justifiable and reasonable reasons for not liking it based on what they’ve heard or seen or experienced about it, they are considered suppressive? Is EVERYONE suppressive?

    That approach in this society is unworkable, but the idea, the data, the philosophy comes from the Tech, not my opinion. The voluminous list of crimes and high crimes and suppressive acts are all listed out in the ethics books and in policies and bulletins and it is designed to label a lot of people suppressive for lots of things. Suppressive, from my understanding of the general concept, is supposed to be a truly identifiable thing, as to the state of that person’s mind, their ability to improve, to see, to communicate, work and be productive and social. Yet, without properly identifying a true suppressive using the forensic tools of its own Tech, Church executives and parishioners go right along with the labeling of someone as an SP when they are not one. The way it’s written and the way it’s applied and has been applied for years and years is to unquestioningly follow what’s written without fully thinking for oneself, causing one to buy into an already existing group agreement and further causes a justified thought process, outright brainwashing or a violation of one’s own integrity that one is expected to swallow.

    The list of drop-outs from Scientology was extensive BEFORE Miscavige. Hubbard himself disconnected from his friends and supporters. The black ops existed before Miscavige. He’s only taken it to a finer art. The auditing processes may be able to help someone communicated better or to exteriorize or to have some wonderful and powerful realizations about life, but about the militaristic literal aggressive and oppressive approach towards achieving its aims and how people are treated are ingredients for its demise.

    Why isn’t it OK to disagree with Hubbard if what he wrote is simply not workable, is routinely and destructively misapplied or has a proven vast potential for destructive misapplication? He would rewrite this part of his own stuff I believe, how could he not do so? On one hand Hubbard stated that HE wasn’t part of the equation, that he wanted the hosannas to be for OUR birthdays and NOT his. Was that a hint to not take this kind of bullshit, even from HIM? But on a contradictory note, didn’t he also write that if one made statements against him they would be labeled a suppressive? If one can be led by the nose under the guise of blind adherence, just where can these sheep be led? To slaughter? To the slaughter of others?

    The Church is like The Borg, trying to convert and assimilate the minds of others, but the Tech is supposed to be for the individual. Let an individual read it. Let an individual experience auditing if they have a reason or purpose for doing so. Help them with their ethics if they would like. The reach has to come from the person, not from an other-determined source. Guide people if they are willing to be shown. By all means offer help in the name of help not in the demand of protocol or under threat. That is contrary to the very nature and definition of an applied philosophy.

    The All Hail Hubbard thing is one of the ingredients of the Borg mentality that created Miscavige and allowed him to come to power, that turned against the Broekers, that is trying to crush Marty, shut up Debbie Cook, humiliate dissenters, kick the celebrity in the teeth, muzzle the ex-Sea Org member, overwhelm the disgruntled parishioner, blackmail whomever. For what? So Scientology can take over the world? Scientology as an organized activity can’t even fill up an org, much less take over the world and fix it. Organized Scientology can’t even keep it’s own people in its ranks. Organized Scientology cannot and has not made one single OT with the powers Hubbard talks about throughout his materials, particularly his lectures. I’m not saying it isn’t any good, I’m not saying the Tech as a whole doesn’t work. But if one is really going to confront this thing and straighten it out, then one should confront it and straighten it out.

    Maybe Hubbard was a fantastic guy, I don’t know, I never met him. But in my opinion, with no disparagement intended, L. Ron Hubbard is not and should not be part of the equation of whether one does or does not have a body of technology that is supposed to fix what’s wrong with beings in this universe. The abusive cult mentality could be said to stem from that very point, the adulation of and adherence to everything Hubbard at all costs. The tech doesn’t work because one idolizes and reveres L. Ron Hubbard. He’s just a legend.

    The “LRH wrote it, therefore it’s true and so must be followed or I will be personally responsible for the destruction of the universe” is an LRH-created datum and a gambit to gain compliance. It sets the stage for: “I AM THE SYMBOL THAT REPRESENTS L. RON HUBBARD SO YOU WILL DO WHAT I SAY OR YOU WILL BE DESTROYED.”

    It’s similar to a hardline worshipping of Jesus or Allah or a popular Guru in India. The guy ain’t the message. The improvement of an individual or enjoyment or workability of the subject is the message. Wanna get rid of the destructive cult? Then you have to get rid of the ingredients which make up the nature and fabric that is making it a cult. Miscavige could trip and fall into a wood-chipper tomorrow and they’ll be another entity of the cult that will rise up from the group and carry on with the momentum of the cult. Another symbol that represents the symbol that represented the symbol.

    The Koolaid Drinking Sheeples of the World seem to crave an identifiable deity on an alter they can turn towards, revere and idolize. Maybe it gives them a form of security and confidence, but it also gives them one of the key ingredients for the making of a cult, and if it’s a rough and tumble steely-eyed cult like the Church of Scientology filled with militant adherents who are in it for blood and the duration, then you’ve got a volatile mixture for trouble, abuse, neglect, arrogance and foolishness that results in the diminishment of the individual. Isn’t that the opposite of the entire purpose for the existence of something like Scientology?

  74. Jim Logan, You said, “Another thing that occurs to me at this point; Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun are taking responsibility in the plainest of fashion for any part they played in the creation of these NDAs. THAT is the very definition of ethical.”

    Well noted! I respect them well for taking responsibility as they have.

  75. Pat,
    Yes, that is the point made clear: DM attacks anyone who practices Scientology. That’s ANYONE. That is the essence of what he’s been doing all along, at Int, in the orgs, the “squirrels”, the “SPs” (those who he declares for practicing Scientology).

    If he can’t get them to stop, well then he alters it so that if they do practice it, it is reversed (witness the suppressive tampering with the emminently workable NED for OTs that LRH developed and released in the late 70s early 80s).

    In this case it becomes clear as a bell, he’s attacking a Scientologist for practicing Scientology which he tried to forbid by “contract” and a “consideration”.

    I am not a lawyer. I’m not Debbie’s lawyer and whatever tack he and she takes to deal with David Miscavige is up to them.

    I just find it fascinating to see this play out so blatantly now – here’s DM, attacking a person for practicing Scientology because he gave them money in consideration of their right to communicate.

    It’s got all sorts of legal potentials – including the Constitutional issues.

    But, one thing is now highlighted in neon, screaming flares and a supernova – if you are a practicing Scientologist anywhere, the field, the org, your own living room in Texas say, and especially in Hemet, you are a target for David Miscavige. He will seek to harm you in any way he can and prevent you from applying Scientology.

    If nothing else is accomplished with this, that one fact is now as plain as the fake teeth in his face.

  76. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hi there, some of the most amazing and insightful
    posts here. Unfortunately, am out of touch with the blog updates and developments most of the time, due to intensive and ongoing work commitments.

    Just another quick 2c. worth.

    1. KSW = Keeping Scientology at War.

    2.How to stop a Legal ping pong ball from bouncing
    back and forth in court? Puncture it FULL of large
    holes (truth!)

    3.How to dissolve the Denialists “polystyrene” stable
    datums?…Pour on the gasoline (solvent!)

    Polystyrene = David Miscavige

    Solvent = L.Ron Hubbard

    Gotta get back to work now! ARC, Lill bit

  77. We are all Debbie Cook.

  78. 2FF!

  79. So true. And Debbie is a good example. And there are hundreds of staff every day auditing and working to make the world a better place. For us that towed the lines in the Sea Org on our backs, those who worked hard to get our family and friends up the bridge, our work and good will, will never fall by any wayside. For every caring of every person in front of you, some magic filled this space and made the air more breathable.

  80. This is terrific news. Debbie has my support.

  81. Perfect post. LOVED the video!

  82. Very well said! Also the Church structure is built on the KSW policies. As Chairman of the Board is DM to enforce contracts that cause people to turn against the religion by NOT applying KSW? It seems so and in which case, is he fit to remain in place as Chairman of the Board of RTC?

  83. You know, when I was in the Sea Org, some staff had these attitudes about people that wouldn’t join. The public at the base were called “pool pigs” by some staff. It never bothered me that everyone wasn’t in the Sea Org. I was a public for a long time and staff at one mission and one Org. I viewed it from every angle and I knew how hard public worked and sacrificed to get up the bridge too. Although they were looked down upon, outer Org staff provided the wherewithal for the Sea Org. I have had a wider view on this group, I have more or less viewed everyone involved as a positive force, as another friend of L. Ron Hubbard’s. And I never felt it would do to harass another one of his friends in his temple. So I never scorned his friends who met there, or bought harm upon them. I have noticed L. Ron Hubbard’s friends are gathering here in Marty’s temple. At least there is a place to gather. That is a good thing. Any friend of Hubbard’s is a friend of mine. And any friend of Marty’s is a friend of mine.
    I am simply not going to cover the heads of Hubbard’s enemies. And David Miscavige has worked to unmocked him, and the worthy benefit the man has left behind. I don’t mean to inherit all of Hubbard’s enemies. And I do not mean to turn his friends into enemies of mine.Marty is carrying on a trust from Hubbard. So are the people auditing that are using standard tech. That is between them and Hubbard. And them and the people they help. I am just carrying on a friendship with Hubbard’s friends. Being kind to Hubbard’s friends is my trust. And I think if everyone had assumed that simple trust, we would be viewing a different theater today.

  84. Does anyone know of any LRH policy that sanctions Gag orders/Non-disclosure agreements or $50,000 payouts for NDA agreements? I have never heard of any such policy.

  85. The first quote on the “Quotes by L Ron Hubbard” page of Debbie’s site follows. Interesting, I’d never seen it before.

    An LRH Quote for this moment in my life…
    “You probably read something about the Reform Code, the Reform Code of Scientology. We sent out actually, I think, oh I don’t know the total international figure, I think in England alone, it was 100,000 mailing and we received back anything that the people thought should be corrected. And this resulted in the Reform Code, in which the sec checks were cancelled and all old folders on this had been burned and disconnection is cancelled as a relief to those suffering family oppression. It is no longer required in SP orders, and the person has to handle. The Fair Game Law was cancelled and the prohibition against writing down or recording professional materials was made. And this was actually the extent of the Reform Code. The public at large generally thought we were all right. We didn’t have to do anything more, but these were just the small items that they did say, so we released them as a reform code.” – LRH Excerpt from tape recorded public lecture – Ron’s Journal 68.

  86. Joe Pendleton

    Oracle, I certainly hope you are right. I am a Californian (no longer there though) who has spent a lot of time in different parts of Texas. I don’t have a Sea Org or staff contract here to look at, but I believe they say “religious covenant” on them now, and in them a person agrees to abide by all church policy scriptures and I even think they now do state that one is working for religious purposes and not a salary. I was in Scientology when the word came down from Int (early 70s) to re-label EVERY single pc folder as a “Confessional.” Many other things were changed too, with the words “minister” and “ministerial” being used whenever possible. Auditing became known as “pastoral counseling” by the way. Now it is kind of a double edged sword for the COS though, as I am convinced there is no way someone can be prevented from the free exercise of their religious practice because they are using the words/terms Scientology, Dianetics, LRH, etc etc etc or any of the materials of Scientology (its scriptures). I don’t think copywright law would ever hold up for a religion in a First Amendment case, but……………… one would first have to challenge it and that would take a VERY big committment costing mucho bucks by a very dedicated and able attorney. Of course Marty, Ingrid or anyone else has the right to practice their religion free from harassment of any kind by Miscavige, the COS or anyone else. It could even be argued (and probably will be) that Debbie Cook was excercising HER religion by applying KSW as she saw fit by her conscience and reading of the PL.

  87. Joe Pendleton

    One of those……, interesting comment. Though when one is turned away, there is always a “handling” and that handling ALWAYS involves paying and paying and paying. I was threatened and screamed at and taken off post and course, BUT …… I was always told I what I could do as long as I kept paying (“you can do these ethics conditions, but you need to get the group’s permission first by buying more book packages”…….. “great news, you can get back on lines, just need to start with two intensives of sec checks……..” Right, “start” with two intensives of sec checks, FRD style……… uhm, no thank you.) And by the way, EVERY time I gave money to this end, I was asked for more and more agressively within a few days of the last credit card transaction.

  88. Yes thank you yvonne I am a future ‘Debbie’. There will be many many more.

  89. Chilling, but almost certainly 100% accurate. I get the feeling that what Debbie could tell is even more horrific and unimaginable that what we already know. MWH phenomena will be in full dramatisation. Spare a thought for those still trapped at Int, especially any in the Hole.

  90. Kevin Bloody Mackey

    The CofS only has volunteers, unless they leave, then they get bound by instruments designed to gag employees. And it is a religion, if you want to sue them they feel it should be accorded all of the protections granted under the law, unless you wish to practice outside and not pay their toll collector, then they fall back onto copyright law and all of the protections granted to corporations, that is until you fight back, then chameleon like they morph into a persecuted minority religion, until the next Int event where they need to bilk some actors and well-to-do parishioners, then they are HUGE…the fastest growing religion that ever was….

    Confused? I think some magistrates have been.

    But David Miscavige’s con/ponzi scheme is just about at it’s end.

  91. Hi Marty, As soon I get soon money I will donate for sure. Let so you guys know also I am handling some donations for Debbie from Peru. The have now a group on Independents scientologists.

    By the way this is the site for Debbie Cook letter in spanish:


  92. One of the coolest LRH quotes I have seen where the old man predicts the possible usurping of the church by David Miscavige – thanks to Maggie Kerrigan for referencing it:

    “We could, at this time, put together an organization or a group in Scientology sufficiently strong, sufficiently powerful to run over everything it came to. This would be a fascinating thing to do. Be a game in itself. And then someday-me gone, other guys gone-all of a sudden there sits this thing, this organization. And somebody has to rise up and say, “Auditors of the world, unite; overthrow this monster!” And everybody would see it go down very plainly, you see. Down it’d go. Then they’d say, “Fine! Now we are free.” And they would get another handful of letters canceling their certificates. (audience laughter)

    I try to look far enough in the future to forecast and predict what might be, so as to not do too many things wrong. You must allow me some percentage. And as I look into the future, I see that we are handling here, material of a potential control and command over mankind which must not be permitted at any time to become the monopoly or the tool of the few to the danger and disaster of the many……

    And I believe that the freedom of the material which we know and understand is guaranteed only by a lightness of organization, a maximum of people, good training and good, reliable, sound relay of information. And if we can do these things, we will win. But if we can’t do these things, sooner or later the information which we hold will become the property of an untrustworthy few. This I am sure, because it has always happened this way. But that’s not reason it has to keep on happening this way. I am not of an inevitable frame of mind……

    Scientology, well understood, is a very powerful thing. Poorly relayed, poorly communicated, monopolized or used exclusively for gain, it could be a very destructive thing.”

    – LRH. From the “Anatomy of the Spirit of Man” congress lectures. Tape 6, June 1955.

    Kudos to Debbie for standing strong, and to all those who have her back!

  93. I would donate, be she has to be able and willing to send me an ack for prior comm, before I send and more, including $$

  94. –> retired, extremely dangerous

    Spot on right, but DM is not ” lousy excuse for a senior exec.” that is what those still working for him are.

    What you are looking at with DM is the most textbook example of a whole-track SP who somehow lucked into the keys to the kingdom and was able to corrupt what LRH setup as external defense mechanisms and policies and run them back at the Orgs and PCs themselves. It really makes the CoS a giant theta trap; SPs can be counted on to use policy to thwart purpose. (See your PTS/SP pack for refs)

    DM and his ilk are terrified of powerful free beings (HCOPL 13Jan1983 The Business of Orgs”) The only free beings made in CoS are literally sent off to be butterflies and that sort of thing)

    A big being coming into CoS to handle his ruin or problems will be giving enough “Win” and “Mystery Sandwich” to extract Max $$ and then be actually degraded and introverted along the route up( and now back down) the bridge… Not what is supposed to happen but that is the way it is.

    Sadly DM and minions have ways to neutralized perceived threat that are pure viciousness and very camouflaged. I am sure people running though this meat grinder have died from it. Come to you own conclusions.

    I know of one or two that I feel lots of grief about and I bet you do too.
    LRH would be 101 Next March. I wish he could be kicking it with St. Germain

    PTS :: Became Actual Source of Trouble,quite awhile back… ready to turn the knob up a few notches

  95. “She is, of course, only scratching the surface of the list of crimes miscavige is guilty of.”

    Not least of which is collusion with the United States government in the suppression of the Religion of Scientology. This fact must not be ignored – Miscagives’ threat may be great, but he is the tip of an iceberg large.

  96. Pingback: Corporate Scientology vs Captain Scientology Mecca | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  97. If you have a Vol 1 management series, go to personnel series 14 org series 19 GROUP SANITY.


    Slapping a Church member with a law suit for urging other members to abide by Church scripture would be considered violence by most communities.


    DM is clearly manifesting insanity by the Church’s own bible in disallowing Debbie to BE a Scientologist in good standing (which she cites as her purpose) DO whatever she feels she is her duty as a caring member and HAVE a relationship with her fellow peers as a result of remaining true to her honor.

    There are points to be made in all 11 sections of the sanity scale which directly describe all that David Miscavige has dramatized.

    I highly recommend to anyone who has been reading this blog and still has doubts to work through, to read this policy. It is a very clear summation of all we seen come to pass in the last several years in the Church under the influence of David Miscavige.

  98. Wow, it really is like she flushed him out!

  99. Random S., you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions, interpretations. Got instance, a person isn’t considered or labeled suppressive just because they don’t “like” Scientology. As for Scientology being linked to Hubbard, that is only fitting for an innovator, as electric lights are linked with Edison. Neither Edison nor Hubbard were completely solo innovators — they each had huge teams; but the big guys got all the credit. Or Steve Jobs linked to the Macintosh — he gets all the credit. Is it fair? Actually, arguably it is.

  100. Another “wow” for Debbie.

  101. So, with everything she has going on, all the hundreds and probably thousands of emails, and she has to find yours in the huge stack, and drop everything and have a whole conversation with you, just to indulge your ego so she can get your donation of 5 or 5000 bucks? I’m guessing she might say, “thanks anyway, I’m a little busy here.” Plus, she’s in litigation, and I should think would be rightfully hesitant to make any statements whatsoever, other than through her attorney. You’re asking a pretty high price, it seems, for your contribution.

  102. I just don’t see how one can fully achieve one’s own personal integrity within the cult that the the Co$ has become.
    Here, where I am, I’m free to examine what I apply for effectiveness. A thousand hours of auditing others with no one to tell me what I see or what to think about what I see. has been extremely enlightening. I mostly see people regaining their self determinism and becoming impervious to other-determinism. I believe I see that, because it’s the intention behind my auditing.
    There have been points where I wanted to reject everything “Hubbard.” Yet I continue to audit others toward a greater freedom. Why? For no other reason than that I see it work before my very eyes.
    If anything is presented that does not lead to a greater freedom, I am free to reject it. And I do reject it.
    I know many people who do now approach and apply the subject in the same way.
    The tech will die a slow death if it’s used for any reason other than freedom.

  103. How appropriate. Revitalizes my admiration of the old man. He knew he wasn’t perfect and simply wanted people to be free, in the end.

  104. Wonderful.
    I occasionally reflect upon the points of my own evaluation of the material presented. And every, single, solitary time I did not stick to my “own” evaluation was, if not a step backwards, a future banana peel.

    The subject is meant to be “owned” not rotely repeated. I had no idea of ownership until I encountered this “subject” of Hubbard.

  105. Just so it is known: There ARE Scientologists who received Debbie’s email who are NOT being hounded……:)

  106. Interesting viewpoint.
    While I can see this “protecting of public from out-tech”, this new ‘strategy’ of NOT serving the general public will create an internal vacuum and same as the motto: “hell has no fury as a scorned women” the UNHANDLED case (BPC) of the public will create far more hell than ever imagined. Just look at KSW 1!
    If THAT doesn’t drive the public into the Indie field, I don’t know what will.

  107. Right on JIm!

  108. Holy Cow!!!!
    Highly useable for further dissemination to members on the fence!
    Thanks. Greta

  109. Look at the “REFORM CODE” in the Admin Dictionary.
    LRH was certainly no angel but he changed things when realizing they were not right.
    Get up to date!

  110. Random Stranger

    Of course I interpreted it and yeah, YOU say my considerations are assumptions and incorrect. I say they are truths to me. They are my conclusions, my considerations. What do you say, “Your considerations are incorrect”? If it’s true to an individual, then they are not incorrect. Read The Factors. Do OT VIII. There’s a cramming order for you.

    Now, do you say, “Hey Joe, pass me that Edison Lightbulb, will ya?”
    Is the Mac referred to as, “The Steve Jobs Computer?” No, it’s the Mac.

    And I wasn’t even talking fairness, but since you mention that, hmmm…let me see…Ok, no it isn’t fair to include an ingredient in that cultivates a dangerous cult such as the way the Church of Scientology has become. It is one of my truths, after long contemplation, after serious study and Grade Chart travel, and observation and participation, that hailing the messenger and deifying the designer to the degree that Hubbard has been creates a powerful symbol that can be so manipulated and misused by another person to become an altered version of that symbol (Miscavige), pushing their own agenda (Money, Violence, Ideal Orgs, IAS) leaving the original symbol (Hubbard) unable to protect the purity of their work. The new symbol now does what they want ’cause there ain’t no protection and a big trick can be played. Ha ha ha. Nice trick. A slick trick from a dick.

    Well, there you go, that’s what I have to say about that. 🙂

  111. Random Stranger

    You’re talking cool, LDW.

  112. Random Stranger

    Well Greta, thank you for your statement about what I said. Hmmm…I sold or threw away my Admin Dictionary, so I don’t have one anymore. If I ever run into one, I’ll look it up.
    Your point about “when realizing they were not right” is highly pertinent. The “when realizing” expands into “if realizing” also, which applies I believe to the period of time of Miscavige’s years of abuse of staff and manipulation of LRH comm lines while the guy was still alive. Bad shit was happening and the “if realizing” was even expanded further into “whoops, didn’t realize.” Hey, nobody’s perfect, I understand. I got no reason to dis Hubbard. He was probably a cool guy once you got to know him or even maybe if one didn’t get to know him.
    But I still hold to my considerations. Telling me to “Get up to date!” sounds like a Sea Org Missionaire who came into the org once and I asked her a question and she barked, “GET HATTED!” and that was that. Didn’t do me any good, I was already fully hatted. She didn’t get my comm and wasn’t really interested in using the two-way comm cycle to find out. Hey, nobody’s perfect, huh?

  113. Random Stranger, I’m sorry, but your piece reminds me of old-school pulp fiction on the order of Conan the Barbarian stories.

    “Koolaid Drinking Sheeples of the World”? Please!

    It doesn’t really help me sort out the actualities of the Scientology scene.

  114. Random Stranger

    Cool, but I wasn’t trying to sort out the actualities of the Scientology scene for you. Just stating what was on my mind, a consideration, a proffering of an idea. By the way, I like the idea of that Conan the Barbarian stuff you mention. Sounds good, hey maybe that’s a compliment. Thanks. I think the line, “Koolaid Drinking Sheeples of the World” sounds good rollin’ off the tongue, got a nice cadence to it. Hmm…could do something with that I think. Thanks for the ideas! 🙂

    By the way, what are you sorry about?

  115. Debbie Cook was awesome in the way she kept Harvey Jacques under control. He now has no controls, only a madman to dictate to him, as LRH never meant that much to him, except as a means to an end…how he could get his big sales ideas across using LRH quotes. As said earlier, he is a fat bully, no substance, just blustery hot air. He must have pissed his pants when he found out that FSO was supposed to bring this suit against Debbie because he of all people knows just how powerful and effective she is and he is certainly aware of his own lackings when compared to her. Could almost make one feel kinda sorry for him…not.

    I am pleased and proud to be among such friends. The postings and comments of the past few days have been spot on, insightful and inspiring. Thanks to all. David Miscavige has no clue about what he has brought down on himself by attempting to take on Debbie Cook, with the back up of all here. Dumb. Really dumb.

  116. Random Stranger…you are soooooooooo correct. The workability of Scientology is there, and it may not live up to the “full potential of theta” that Ron discusses in his writings and lectures, but its the best we got down here. Still, the fact is that Ron is a thetan and the tech is the tech. The idea is Knowing how to Know, not knowing who to idolize. The church is inverted and DM and OSA are the manifestation of every unhandled evil int that Ron ever dramatized on people, but to the nth degree. At least Ron had many sides…DM only has one, and the church folks now worship DM…”he has brought us so far”, ‘we are expanding like never before” and they are all so convinced about the greatness of DM…they are truly blind. But the new kids on the block, well, it is very sad as they have nothing to compare to–they have no history and they sure won’t get any real history from the chruch. Ron was a saint etc and his family? what family?

  117. one of those who see

    To Joe and Zephr, Thanks for your replies!
    To Joe: Exactly! Stops, Stops, Stops. Yes, one can persevere i guess and pay, pay, pay do conditions, amends etc…. And maybe eventually get some bridge. I’m sure many just give up. To me, this is them barring the door.
    To Zephr, Agreed! it does drive people to the Indie field.

    I was just thinking of the LRH datum that man is basically good and will stop himself from hurting others by blowing, doing himself in etc.. So i was applying that to the Church. They are in fact stopping people from being able to get the out tech. LOL! Those people are driven to the Indie Field because of no service and the ones that do jump through the hoops, pay through the nose and get the out tech also eventually look to the Indie Field.

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