UPDATE SATURDAY A.M.: VILLAGE VOICE WEIGHS IN
By Mike Rinder
At the same time Miscavige’s minions rushed into court in Texas attempting to enforce their unconscionable “contract” with Debbie Cook, they sang a different tune in Pinellas County, pleading that courts have no jurisdiction in matters of religion.
See the article by Joe Childs and Tom Tobin reporting on today’s hearing (which occurred coincidentally with the hearing in Texas): Lawyer tells judge: “Only Scientology law applies.”
The Tampa Bay Times report is accurate and objective.
There is no doubt a great deal of law indicates courts should not intrude in religious matters. But here, where the church has long proclaimed how fair and generous it is in returning money to dissatisfied customers, the new “policy” of refusing to return funds is being challenged and scrutinized. Until fairly recently, the church lived up to representations made to the Internal Revenue Service to gain tax exemption that it was “easy” to get your money back. But it seems there are so many dissatisfied customers that they had a change of heart, and are now refusing to even return monies on account while stating “if they had just followed the procedures they would have had their money by now” with a straight face. I wonder what would happen if a bunch of SPs showed up at the FSO to “do their CVB Routing Form” – imagine the panic that would spread. And if each brought a witness…. I think the FSO should be careful about what they say.
It was rather humorous to watch the church try to claim a 7 page fine print contract is “Scientology law.” Clearly, it was drafted by lawyers, not religious scholars, to be used in court and it even says so in the enrollment agreement.
But the most amazing position for the church to take is “tough luck pal, it’s our rules and if you don’t like them you can’t sue us. Not for anything, ever, because you signed away your rights in order to participate in church services.” But here, they didn’t even participate. No services were provided.
There is little doubt this will be a long battle. The stakes for the church losing are a catastrophic run on the bank. But fighting this will focus more and more media attention on the vulture culture and how far removed it is from what the IRS was told that convinced them to grant the church tax exempt status.
Miscavige is walking a tightrope while juggling and doing backflips in a high wind: trying not to let a dollar out of his grip while at the same time defying what he personally told the IRS about church policy on refunds and repayments, while trying to use the judicial system to enforce contracts to protect his ego and out of the other side of his mouth protesting that his contracts cannot be enforced by any court. Good luck with that.
His contradictions are not lost on the world and as he proceeds down his arrogant path of self destruction, they will catch up to him. He is convinced he is the smartest man in the world and he can play anyone and everyone for his benefit. The truth ALWAYS prevails in the end.
A tip of the hat to Bert Schippers and Lynn Hoverson and Luis and Rocio Garcia for stepping up to the plate and paving the way for justice and equity for many who stand in the same place.
As I recall from my legal studies, the Dave asserting one thing in Texas and another in Florida falls under some thing like “estoppel” or such like thingies.
In Texas he’s seeking to enforce a “contract” in the courts, and in Florida he’s seeking to keep a court out of his “contracts”.
Gee Dave. You are retarded.
This is one of those moments that it really hits me-This is History in the making.
A “catastrophic run on the bank” in more ways than one…
I volunteer to be a CVB Routing Form witness!
Great summary, Mike. It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out. Meantime, corporate Scientology is making it very clear to the world that you’d have to be a fool to join their flip-flopping, money-grubbing criminal ranks.
I’m able and willing to help make sure the truth DOES prevail.
Hey, maybe the two can be combined as a Federal case, based on “diversity” of states/citizenship in Debbie’s case and both dealing with the FSO’s “contracts”.
Thorny Constitutional questions like; can a person abrogate their free speech by contract which contract on its face denies their Practice right? Will the Court enforce a contract that entangles them in denying the right to PRACTICE Scientology?
Holy cats. It’s so apropos that DM’s spokesperson is Poo.
And that’s to say nothing (yet) of the complete reversal of what DM asserted UNDER OATH to the IRS re refunds and repayments. Yikes.
Maybe Dave is drinking his enema bag?
HEADLINE: Church of Scientology’s Pope seeks to use Texas Court to enforce “contract” that denies First Amendment and entangle Court in Establishing Religion.
Comment: That’s some crazy ass Pope on A Box (an applebox). Comment: it’s Alvin on a Box, the AOB.
Yes, great article, Mike. It brings that old saying to mind. Miscavige has practiced to deceive and now he’s all tangled up in a nasty web of his own weaving .
Great peice Mike.
It’s interesting how the cult only wants it their way.
In any PTS handling I ever had inside, it was always “what did you do to potentially antagonize this person that you now see as suppressing you?”
The cult on the other hand when THEY feel suppressed, NEVER looks to see how they created the antagonism.
My wife brought up an example of how the cult uses media and lobbiest to educate the world about the SP Psychs and drug companies. They say that these are the KR’s to the world. But when whistleblowers use the same “KR’s to the world” they are “off line” and ” suppressive”.
It is a truly suppressive quality to not be able to take any responsibility for things going poorly around you and blaming everyone else. These must be david miscaviage’s characteristics as he is the one managing the place, or rather, mis-managing it.
When David Miscavige makes his run for the border, will anyone be able to block all/any of the church’s donations from leaving the country?
I hadn’t read the article linked earlier.
After reading it I can see how the cult is really screwed now. They want to use the justice system like a dupe, the way they use it’s paritioners. If the courts can’t get involoved in religious matters then they can’t get involved in Debbie Cook’s issues and she can say what she wants. The can’t have their cake and eat it too.
Kudos to Luis Garcia and Bert and Lynne. Bert, I loved your line that the “routing form is incompletable”, no shit!!
If the courts can enforse these church gag orders then they must be able to get involved on suits with people trying to get their money back too.
Burn in hell , miscavige!!! Burn in hell!!
Miscavige graduated Magna cum Disgrace from the Machiavelli School of Mismanagement.
Jim Logan makes some excellent points on his posts here. I think it does have to be understood that this is a very special part of American Constitutional Law. The courts have always been extremely reluctant to intefere with any religious practice. Usually that interference has been restricted to gross violations of serious statutes such as homicide, physical and sexual abuse, abuse of children and certain types of embezzlement and fraud, which are VERY difficult to prove against a religion and are VERY rare. (as a note, forced incarcaration/imprisoning/slavery are against American law of course, but try to get folks IN the SO to testify about that) Add to this that the Church of Scientology is a UNIQUE case. I cannot think of ANY other church/religion which has millions of dollars “on account” for counseling (!). That is unheard of, thus no precedents on large numbers of folk who are requesting a “return of donations.” Re: the Headleys suit; I cannot think of any other church/religion which employs thousands of workers who are required to work upwards of 80+ hours a week for hardly any pay. You don’t find this in the world. Thus the court will have a tendency in the USA almost always to bend over way backwards to ensure that a church/religion’s practices and internal policies are protected. The public’s best “protection” is to not choose to be part of that church. And I think that’s the real value of these court cases. They are unlikely to be won (though they MAY be; I don’t think it’s a sure win for the COS), but the real LOSE for the COS is that the case is even heard and publicized. Just keep talking to reporters and holding press conferences and get on even local radio talk shows – every piece of comm helps to expose what is going on. The First Amemendment does not protect free speech in a church by the way. I cannot get up during a Catholic service and stand in front of the priest and start loudly reciting the Koran for instance. I can be hauled out as the parishioners’ rights to exercise THEIR religion trumps my breaking up their service with my “speech.” Same if I did it in a Church of Scientology. Now the courts will have to look at the COS’ right to restrict an American’s free speech after they LEAVE the COS – again, new territory, no other religion even tries this. Parents are going to have to take more responsibility for their children who sign these contracts (when under 18) and folks need to understand what the rules of the game are when forking over cash to the COS. Quite possibly or even probably COS policies will “win” in a court’s decision, but no matter – the real win is letting more and more people know what is going on. Eventually Miscavige’s church will be gone and there will be new Scientology groups with different policies. I don’t think anyone will ever have an exchange problem with Marty or Ingrid.
This is one of dm’s scotch induced confessions.
Mike, This is a great article you’ve written. You’ve really described the scene perfectly.
Two days ago, the CofS has been sentenced in France to pay 600.000 € basicly for not applying Scientology policy and -priciples. They had extracted moneys in undue manner and later refused to return them when asked. Both is off policy. Two execs have been fined for 30.000 € and got sentenced to two years on probation. That’s whats in the Spiegel in Germany.
We in RTC want to have our cake and eat it too! We see the First Amendment as both a sword and a shield that can be used in protecting our lucrative religious monopoly that is not a business.
* We demand that the court enforce our contract with Debbie Cook and her husband Mr. Cook in Texas.
* We demand that the court stay out of any refund matter in Florida and all other states, nations, and planets. Refund is a dirty word to us in RTC and we will never hand over one thin dime to bitter apostates! They can submit to binding religious arbitration with the three members of RTC that are in good standing: COB, his 2D Lou, and their super-wog lawyer Monique Yingling.
* We decry the French court and its outrageous act of levying an illegal fine on us in France. We demand that the US attack and invade France over this heinous assault on an American church!
Please do not support Marty’s blog. Please donate to IAS.
Of course such actions were not just off policy but against the law as well, that’s why they have been sentenced in court. Just found it remarkable that such actions did not belong to the Scientology of L. Ron Hubbard.
Thanks for the heads up Mike. Present time is an interesting place as this senario unfolds.
It’s quite insane to realise none of this would be happening in Scientology were applied.
Geeze… typos are the pits – ‘if Scientology were applied.’
On a slightly different track, I have it on very good information–someone who worked for the lawfirm of Bowles and Moxon at the time of the Church’s big win–that the reason the IRS gave in to the Church was mainly blackmail.
As the hush-hush story goes, someone working for Bowles and Moxon discovered a basement full of dossiers on American citizens. The problem was that the information had been obtained illegally. This is what brought the IRS to the bargaining table. If this is the case, it explains a lot.
Is there anyone out there who could confirm or deny this information?
The LRH policy regarding refunds is very simple and can be found in OEC Volume 3. By refusing to follow the policy, Miscavige is once again making it clear who the “squirrel” is.
Miscavige feels he needs to defy policy and refuse refunds so as to maintain as much leverage as possible in keeping the ever decreasing number of sheeple in the pen.
All its going to do is increase negative PR and decrease public trust. It’s so obvious, one has to wonder if this isn’t his intention.
Tony, LRH described DM to a T several years before DM’s birth in PAB 13, ON HUMAN BEHAVIOR. Anything you do to him can never be made good and anything he does to you is more than deserved. He also has serious food allergies, like coconut, another point straight out of the PAB. Despite any appearances to the contrary, DM fits the characteristics in that PAB very, very closely.
And I agree: great piece, Mike.
David Miscavige has been a catastrophic run OF the bank.
Who is Alvin? The Chipmunk?
“Miscavige is walking a tightrope while juggling and doing backflips in a high wind”
You have such a way with words Mike 😀
Statement from Karin Pouw:
Pouw disputed others who described Cook as a longtime, important church leader, asserting she had “never held a senior management position.”
Someone pass me a tissue – wiping the tears from my eyes.
OMG it gets funnier and funnier!
PLEASE subpoena me as a witness – actually call us all in.
Ringling Bros. and Miscavige & Pouw Circus!
tick tock game over
Thanks very much for the update Mike.
I was thrilled to see in the last thread that you and Marty standing shoulder to shoulder with Debbie. Your combined experience and insights will prove priceless in this action and makes me a lot more optimistic about the eventual outcome. Although as I and several others have noted – David Miscavige has already lost. It ALMOST doesn’t matter what the legal outcome is in the end. The net results will inevitably include:
1. More Independents practising Scientology free of suppression
2. Corporate Scientology income lines drying up with public staying away in droves
3. Miscavige psychosis and bullying exposed to the world in sharper focus than ever before
4. Mass de-PTSing of the fence-sitting, radar-flying sector. Debbie Cook taking on the might of Radical Scientology? I can just see public OTs saying to themselves “is my neck really so precious?” Or, to put it another way: “Friendliest Place in the World Sues ex Chief for Contract Violation” – what’s wrong with this picture?
My own solicitor here who has had some success with refund cases against the cult noted that the legal strategy with Corp Scn was generally to try and overwhelm and bankrupt the individual seeking recourse by means of endless litigation and legal technicalities. There already seems early signs of this in this case. If Debbie’s counsel runs out of funds what happens? In the best case scenario Corp Scn loses and pays Debbie’s legal costs, as can happen in the UK. Is that how it works in Texas?
Finally, the blatant contradiction of Miscavige trying to hide behind First Amendment principles law in one State while trying to flout those exact same principles in another State is well noted.
I’ll shut up now and politely ask all blog readers to let the movers and shakers do their moving and shaking with as little distraction as possible. I’ve done the donation, sent the messages of support; this is no time for off-topic, trolling-type carping and whingeing. There are big beings working hard on all our behalfs. Now really is the time to simply grab the remaining popcorn (that Sam hasn’t already eaten) and enjoy the show.
Ahhhh. I found the perfect rejoinder to this latest piece of madness 😀
“Vanity – is defenitely my favourite sin”
In the late 1980’s, David Miscavige consolidated his
ecclesiastical power; changed the form and direction of scientology;
truncated OTVIII and set up his own ‘church’. He dead ended
by steering scientology to deny its own founder’s doctrine.
He is following the same pattern of contradictions in these legal cases. He
is denying the validity of Debbie Cook’s freedom of speech while claiming
that his church has complete freedom and force of law in its own speech.
He is dead-ending again.
Dave, your only hope is to let go of the idea that you own scientology.
A message to you from Boethius:
“He who once hath seen this light
Will not call the sunbeam bright.”
to rely on estoppel, would probably have to have a final judgment.
With all the Human Rights violations, perversion of Scientology, arrogance and all the mistreatment of staff, public and the mistreatment of his closest and most loyal staff and the mistreatment of LRH´s family and friends, David Miscavige himself has set of an avalanche which is now coming down on him.
And nothing in the world will stop it – no lawyers, court cases, PI´s, stooges, hypocrisy, security measures, advertisement, hoarded up money, sec checking (interrogations), spy on and threat. It is just a matter of time. Truth will prevail!
Me too! Me too!
Hand selected educational video for David Miscavige.
Just like he loves it, with 3D animation.
DM, use a medical dictionary and try to strip your false data afterwards
(there are some animations about cancer, too.)
A lot of people have gotten repayments with incompletely signed QVB routing forms. People would put “refused” in the places that required them to show up or they’d just leave those lines blank. The money was returned. Perhaps Brian Leung would like copies of those routing forms to submit to the court. I’m sure people would be more than happy to email them to you.
Those incompletely signed yet successful routing forms show the cult is being disingenuous with the court. This has nothing to do with following their stinkin’ three panel arbitration but everything to do with plugging the holes in the dike where they’re hemorrhaging money.
Understanding David Miscavige’s psychosis…
(push the play button)
Wow, shocking how the refund/repayment line has been butchered. The church truly is creating it’s own enemies.
Within a ten year time span we have witnessed a covert criminal exchange (Ideal Orgs program) to now an overt criminal exchange…taking parishioner money and refusing to pay it back. Lynn and Bert’s case would set a precedence for others wanting their money back and is another offensive towards cutting the money flow to the corrupted one. Good news indeed…I’ll be watching this one closely!
The very thought has inspired me to send more energy to the defense team!
DM, the above link is not for you! It’s too much entheta for you to handle.
Sam — Their statements are going to come home to haunt them. They keep saying this to try and paint Debbie as “uninformed” and “ignorant.” In the first instance — if she is uninformed and ignorant then that implies she obviously couldnt know anything, or “she’s a liar.” And if she is a liar who knows nothing, I guess they can just pack up and go home as they don’t need to worry about what she said as it is all not true, and there is no prohibition against disclosure of untrue information — clearly if something isnt true it can’t have been covered by an agreement that prevents disclosure of information gained in the church….
But secondly, her statements are confirming the astonishing “expertness” of Marty and me, as they cannot claim either of us never held “senior management positions.”
The more they talk, the more things they say that are harmful to their interests. It’s the same story — Miscavige only thinks about “what is expedient to say to the media” and forgets the courts while he is straining himself to solve the media problem. He then goes back to trying to decide what to do in Texas and ignores its impact on Florida. Then he turns his almighty presence to responding to the Tampa Bay Times and forgets the ramifications with the IRS. It is an inevitable dwindling spiral that is the result of the arrogant lying catching up….
And don’t think for a moment Karin Pouw is saying any of those things — hers is just the name put on the sdtatement that is sent to the media as there isnt anyone else left and Miscavige, though he IS dictating what is being said, is too scared to put his name on HIS words — firstly because it would be “demeaning” for him in the eyes of the public to not be far above the fray [he instigated] as if it goes wrong he has to have a way of saving face, and secondly and more importantly, he cannot afford to be pulled into the litigation as his image would be shattered as soon as he had to testify under oath.
Mat — you ar eright. In a strange way, Miscavie is attempting to get the courts to validate and approve his violations of poliicy. Watch how quickly he uses “the courts validated our rights….” (the SAME courts that he complains have NO ability to interfere in ecclesisatical matters).
Yes, I can deny that information.
Pat — Thanks. Yes, if anyone has gotten a repayment from FSO or FSSO without completing the CVB routing form, contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org. Give me some information when you email me — what year, how much you got back and what steps of the CVB RF you didnt do. Mike
If only his psychosis could be handled with an inhaler. Unfortunately the root of his problems go far deeper. That recent picture of him (a couple blog posts back) does look like he’s on steroids which could be due to the asthma. Steroids can give that puffed up look he’s got in his face. They can also make a man grow breasts, among other things. He might not be sporting those muscle-tee’s any more as he’d look anything but sexy. The word hermaphrodite comes to mind.
Re: “Only Scientology Law Applies”
HGC* = Hubbard Guidance Center
Only Scientology Law Applies?
So you better apply it yourself, dude. Better yet, apply standard Scientology technology and let people apply it instead of stopping the religious contents of Scientology and making nothing out of it.
Make NO MISTAKE about the internal impact of Debbie Cook’s legal, on-SOURCE, on-line, on-policy, theta, and really, really articulate email.
Last evening, for the FIRST TIME IN TWENTY (20) years, I saw an add about Scientology on TV (aired to the Clearwater market). It was full of skewed facts and distortions like “over 10,000 Orgs, Missions and Groups” and “welcomes 4.4 million people per year”, etc. Yeah I know, that second is a jaw dropper. Like, what does “welcome” really mean…? OUT and OUT LIE, but its ok – Scientology is not only a new religion; it’s the new math too.
But I digress: The point is that now, all of a sudden, one sees “a massive dissemination campaign, funded by a grant from the I A S!!!” (read with deep bold voice). Designed to reach millions and drive them into the org. (see below on that point). Debbie and many before her, busted David Miscavige’s ass on the fact that the “massive dissemination campaign, funded by a grant from the I A S!!!” (read with deep bold voice) never, ever happened. Well now, while his lawyers do the two step in Texas and Florida, they are because David Miscavige can say “see, look, the “a massive dissemination campaign, funded by a grant from the I A S!!!” (read with deep bold voice) just like I said we would do with your donations.”
Well it may be lost on others, particularly the sheeple who have never read the Data Series, but it ain’t lost on me. It’s called “Date Coincidence”. And believe me they dusted out the files to get this on the air in a scrabble to look legit to the world. And just like OSA is drilled and billed, there ain’t no such thing as coincidence, now is there.
Its f%^$in disgusting. But the work of Marty, Mike, Debbie, Steve, Jim, Karen, etc. etc. is not lost on me. Thank you very much.
And to our true friend: To LRH.
“….time and pressure…”
PS: At the end of the ad, one is “directed” to go to the church website. So more people will get on line and search the site. That means we need to keep up the use of full spellings of David Miscavige, Scientology, etc. to direct people to this and other blogs of the similar content.
I have seen long ago a problem regarding the wog law vs. the scientology law . It is supposed that a true full OT can be cause over all the factors of the existence ( included the law of any kind ) , so why to follow it if you can just be cause over it, creating it or ignoring it at will ( and i only can think of one person supposedly having acces to the actual OT sections. This hidden data line is creating a person with the authority to abuse the rest of the persons within the church imho .
Although, to be fair to DM on the subject of management positions, Mike. With tongue planted firmly in cheek. As Steve Hall (Thoughtful) pointed out yesterday, let’s face it, there really is ONLY ONE management position in the whole length and breadth of Radical Corporate Scientology.
Mike, although it is true that Scientology law was by all of us agreed to be (in my opinion) not above but, better stated, BEYOND Court law one thing is for sure:
The one who destroyed Scientology Law and order of Standard Tech and Policy IS Miscavige. I have the most basic evidence that Management under him could not even cared to apply HCOBs. Have said it many times here what my situation was in the church. How dares he then now claim that Scientology law is above Court law? Which Scientology law. He ruined it. So now WE take action by common law to put justice in. And I think this world can run and did run even before Scientology law somehow so there must be some rightness even with court law.
Of course we do enforce Scientology law (standard tech and policy on Miscavige) and this is what Debbie did. She pointed out some of the outnesses in regards to the application of that law by DM’s Management.
What makes you think they are in the country now?
Church of Spiritual Technology
TODAY’S BATTLE PLAN:
1) Get nails done.
2) Check Marty’s blog.
3) Get more lawyers.
4) Check safe.
5) Call TC.
6) Yell at someone.
7) Tag on that big reg cycle.
8) Have someone hit someone.
9) Watch those confessional videos from CC Int.
10) Get hair done.
11) Disapprove some stuff.
12) See if I can figure out that damn PR policy letter.
13) Cover up what I did yesterday.
14) Check and see if that endangered species meat arrived yet.
15) Skype meeting with TC.
16) See if those Flag funds have been transferred to Cayman Islands yet.
17) See if Heber is done cleaning that latrine.
18) Work on my novel.
19) Check with lawyers regarding that immunity thing.
20) See if those lazy OSA bastards have finished culling Cook’s confessional folders for potential blackmail, just in case.
To Jim & Joe – I was picked up and drug to the RPFs RPF by my arms and legs. Did I ‘let’ it happen. Yes. I did. I BELIVED I was working for LRH. I would go thru anything for him. Anything. Because he did so much for me. Anything – I would do anything. He gave me an eternity that transends time. And that can not be forgotten.
And it can not be ‘bought’. Nope – cant be bought.
Looks like the Pope on a Box has a Pop for a lawyer too.
I would defy 99.9 percent of the Sea Org members in “senior management” to successfully hold the post of “Captain FSO”. Especially for the length of time that Debbie did.
I have a letter dated August 8, 2011, which states:
“Your request for repayment of advance religious donations with the Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization (FSO) was forwarded and reviewed by the Claims Verification Board (CVB) at the request of Ms. Heller. You have not submitted a CVB Routing Form, but even if you did, for the reasons stated below, you are not eligible for a repayment.”
This seems to deny the need for a routing form. Want a copy?
I haven’t yet read all the comments, so I may be making an uninformed comment at this point. However, I just have to say:
The day the books were deducted from service funds without my authorization, there was a breach of contract not to mention trust. I didn’t put funds on account after Dr Denk’s departure to have them wantonly deducted on a whim. It took hard work — selling an asset — for those funds to appear and be placed on account.
LRH defined a “QUACK” as a person who “TOOK MONEY AND REFUSED TO REFUND IT IF THE PERSON WAS NOT SATISFIED”. So now even DM is admitting he ias a quack.
UPDATED: VILLAGE VOICE WEIGHS IN: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/02/scientology_wan_1.php
Ya, me too Amy.
21) Beat, kick, slap and spit on that c#@%sucker Moxon about that estoppel thing.
If the Church attorney is claiming only Church law applies, why hasn’t someone produced the policy letter from L. Ron Hubbard that states “All Refund Requests Are To Be Paid Within 24 Hours”?
This is itself states anyone can get their money back within 24 hours if they so decide. Are Scientologists REALLY going to have to get the courts to enforce L. R. H policy letters in this day and age?
While Church members donate money to have the Church fight against L.R.H. policy in the courts of law? This is what it has come to?
Yes, you’re right.
I remember that one.
He stated that only Scientologists offer refunds in order to distinguish our practices to any other practices.
But David Miscavige ist not a Scientologist.
Too Funny! By the way, there have been some new laws imposed by the I.R.S. on reporting hidden funds, or funds outside of the U.S.. By beloved cousin who works for the I.R.S. is very curious about this year’s haul.
I just had a thought about the case in Florida. When the cult made it’s agreement with the IRS back in 1993 one of the things that was agreed upon was that people would get their money repaid swiftly. Right? But now they’re asking a FL court to rule otherwise by making a ruling that people have to agree to binding arbitration with pod-people serving as the arbitration panel.
If the court were to agree to the cult’s requests, that would effectively undo the agreement made back in 1993. Does the court even have the power to do this? And is the court aware of that 1993 agreement?
Has anyone made the IRS aware of what the cult is trying to do?
Mike, no need to answer these questions. I’m just throwing them out there, hoping someone, somewhere, in the gov catches this..
This is all a very interesting turn of events. For some reason it inspired me to pull up this video….
all I wanted was…..
A L E R T! A L E R T! ALTERED COB BP!!! ALTERED COB BP!!!!! ALL HANDS SEC CHECKS FOR EVERYONE IMMEDIATELY!! PAY DOCK! PAY DOCK! DROP AND GIVE ME FIFTY! TAKE THAT! PCHOW! OOCH! SMACK! WHAAA!! PTOOOIE!
There is no contract when there is fraud.
Follow-up comment: In addition, I have the Parishioner Annual Statement from FSO which shows the funds were put on services in 2005. “Donations made for qualified religious services (solely intangible religious benefits).” This was dutifully reported to the IRS and legal tax deduction was taken. In 2008, the some of the funds were subverted at FSO to books. This was done without my knowledge or authorization.
The Cof$ long ago left the realm of the absolute protection of the first ammendment when it decided to go the corporate route. Corporations are “persons” formed via permission from the government, and have “civil rights,” really just govt. granted privileges, at best. Those privileges are what the government says they are, since govt. is grantor of said privileges. About the only restriction on govt. is the equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment. That is, if the extent of a govt. granted privilege is adjudicated one way for one particular party then that doctrine must be applied equally to all other similarly situated parties. In otherwords, on paper at least, the govt. does not get to play favorites.
Cof$ wants to have it both ways … it wants all of the protections that are inherent in free associations of people, with rights specifically guaranteed via the first ammendment, and it wants all of the advantages obtained via the privilege of incorporation. I say to heck with playing their game. Since they have gone the corporate route, forget the courts and hit those b’tards with commercial lien actions as per the UCC.
All this talk about Scientology law, is it that the pope demonico thinks that Clearwater is the Vatican? That the law of the land is less in value due to the fact that those of his legal team won the first salvo. Well think again. We are using the unadulterated tech and your weapon was made by you, bad move.
Our motives are true and you, that of evil. Even in bad movies good trumps the likes of you repeatedly. Where is the popcorn I’ll pop this batch.
DM has an interesting solution to his condition … smoke more Camel unfiltered cigarettes.
It is worse than that. The CoS has been convicted of “organized thievery” under French law and labeled a fraud, which could lead to its dissolution. I’m sorry for the good, dedicated staff members and parishioners, some friends and acquaintances, who for many years have suffered terribly in their personal and professional life in France because of the stigma of being a Scientologist. They are only following the lead from Int., following “command intention” and don’t know any better I think, unaware that they have given up their integrity. I used to think, like them, that it is only the French government and psychs who have been responsible for the poor reputation, but now I see the leadership of DM is responsible to a great degree. Also, I have felt for a long time that American-style regging, perhaps acceptable in the US if done with decency, is nevertheless “out-ethnics” for French society. I used to write to the French media, defending the CoS after bad reports, but no more. I don’t know what will happen now.
21. Ask Lou What’s up with her ass, it don’t look like it used to? If no good answer, get order onto TNT to get s’more junk in da trunk .
This is the inevitable road that will start to really shake DM’s hold on the Church. He can only control it, truly, through money. When the money starts to be threatened, his aura of “perfection” will be challenged and eventually he’ll head for the hills. Anyhow, good post Mike. Factual and to the point.
Feel free to visit my blog too. Just posted a new one. Not as brilliant or insightful as Mike’s, but it’s not another shoulder to the wheel, another voice raising the call! – Kool on the block http://koolontheblock.wordpress.com/2012/02/04/wow-nots/
Mike… you think there’s a precedent already set in Radical Corporate Scientolgy’s favor by allowing in Islamic or Sharia law in place of US laws? See the below links. Perhaps a day will come, DM thinks (oh hell, he probably already thinks this!), where he can say “Scientology law” trumps the constitution. Just imagine that being the case if this judge allows the church to prevail using this as their defense. And I also wonder if any of the 50 cases noted in the second below reference were used by RCS in this hearing?
Interesting parallels for sure.
The Cult of Scientology has used the best attorneys and private investigators for decades in order to to engage in bare-knuckled legal aggression, intimidation, and shuddering people into silence. Much of this activity remained hidden for decades behind NDA’s.
Now that the Cult’s PR “flak jacket” has been stripped away in a withering series of revelations, its bare-knuckled legal aggression and intimidation has been laid wide open for all to see.
My prediction is this: The future of the Church will be legal aggression in court rooms. Corporate Scientology is an entity designed by lawyers who had legal defenses in mind. Failing violence and intimidation, the Church of Scientology is ultimately about winning any potential lawsuit by using contract law. Indeed, the only weapon the Cult has left in its scant arsenal is to slug it out in ugly public legal action where it asserts:
1) Its rights and protections as a religion
2) Contract law
The Cult waged a long war against the internet over its trademarks and copyrights. The Cult ultimately lost this war. Part of the reason the Cult lost is because David Miscavige has unclean hands and does not want to ever be put into deposition.
It follows that the Cult will also ultimately loose its “contract law war” for the same reason: David Miscavige has unclean hands and does not want to ever be put into deposition. We saw this famously proven when the Church capitulated on the Eve of the Lisa McPherson trial. This trial would have literally put the Pope in the Box under oath where he would have faced a withering and extensive cross-examination,
There will be a case that makes it to court. This may be the point at which DM announces his retirement, gets into his Bulgravia Escape Jet, and heads out to a non-extradition paradise with his faithful lapdog Danny Sherman and a few other lackeys he pays to pour him drinks, massage his leathery reptilian body, and tell him how great he is.
Alternately, DM may be reduced to fugitive status in which he lives in a dirt hole with a piece of cardboard pulled over the top to elude capture as happened to another dictator a few years ago.
Bienvenue. Je n’ai pas vu votre nom ici avant. Vos observations sur ce qui est considéré comme l’éthique dans la société française sont intéressantes. Vous avez également dit que la décision française a conséquences beaucoup plus graves que nous voir à la surface, et c’est intéressant. Merci pour cette perspective.
(Forgive my usage errors – I haven’t practiced French in many years. Your comments are interesting and significant).
You’re absolutely right Mat. It’s clear as a day how refunds and repayments should be handled (BTW, it’s also clear as day that people who don’t want to be on staff should be offloaded quickly). However, Corporate $cientology will assert that because HCO Policy Letters are “religious scriptures” that a court can’t get involved in the interpretation of them. However, any reasonable person can tell the difference between a business issue and a religious issue. Giving someone their money back for a service undelivered is clearly a business issue.
The “church” has had a long history of trying to have it both ways. When the OT levels first appeared on the Internet, and scientology’s lawyers were trying to get them taken down (does anyone remember an “Avagram”?), they argued that the OT levels were “trade secrets” and their disclosure would hurt their future revenues. Doesn’t this sound a lot like a business and not religion? It does to me.
The fundamental problem here is that the SUBJECT of Scientology IS a study of spirituality, but the delivery of it is a business. In my humble opinion, Scientology should have been organized as a not-for-profit organization, instead of church. We need to “open source” Scientology and make the subject freely available to anyone who wants to practice it, much like software is open source. Scientology hides behind the first amendment when it’s to their advantage, but feel frees to break other’s constitutional rights when it suits their needs to protect their monopoly. If one were simply to take away the “religious cloaking” of Corporate $cientology, we would have A LOT fewer human rights abuses.
Horribly enough, it doesnt really matter in the current matter (though if you could send it to me I would appreciate having it). What they are really saying is this:
We have church policy (law) that we interpret and follow and no court can intercede to dictate what we should and should not do. So, if we announce “You can have your money back if you just ask” and our interpretation of that is “we aren’t giving it to you because you didnt ask the right way”, there is nothing anyone can do about it. It’s “Scientology law” that they can lie and cheat and that is covered under their religious beliefs and practices. And unfortunately, that IS the religious belief and practice of the RCS. The question is whether this allows them to do things that are in violation of the public good and shield their actions behind the First Amendment.
They know full well they HAVE given repayments to many people who have not completed the routing form. They also know they havent given money to some people who HAVE completed the Routing Form. It’s totally arbitrary and they are telling the court that this is OK because “we are a religion.”
The RCS is truly giving religion a bad name at this point. They love to act so superior to everyone else, but the institutional mindset that justifies their acts of human cruelty is only exceeded perhaps by extremely radical jihadists. Miscavige loves to ridicule the Catholic church as being riddled with pedohiles to make himself seem superior. No question, there have been plenty of pedophile priests and cover-ups by church officials, but the systematic violations of abuse by the C of S are more prevalent per capita than the Catholic Church has ever approached.
VERY interesting point!! Great citations.
Scary, too, if one has every studied a bit about the structure and implications of Sharia law – especially if one is a woman! Scary as well to allow Scientology to “disappear” staff members and parishioners onto ships, the hole, isolated outposts or to harass and sue whistelblowers into poverty. Yes, there are major parallels.
Perhaps Corporate $cientology’s new strategy is to not give out any refunds/repayments unless one sues, at which point they’ll give back the money. In other words, just by making it a major pain in the ass, they think a lot of people will be less inclined to attempt to get their money back. For a guy like me, if I wanted to sue $cientology, I’d have to go find a lawyer, pay a retainer, and hope he’d be willing to take on C of $. And on top of it I’d have to personally be willing to undergo everything that goes along with sueing Corporate $cientology – disconnection, character assassination, dirty tricks, etc. I guess it would just depend on how much money I’d be getting back for me to put up with all the BS.
Xerxes – Salamis
Cao Cao – Red Cliffs
King Herold – Hastings
Napoleon – Waterloo
Custer – Little Big Horn
Hitler – Stalingrad
Miscavage – San Antonio
21) Get gold tanning thong cleaned with bleach.
22) Make doctors appointment to find out why I’ve been crapping my pants so much lately.
And even if I were to get a judgement against Corporate $cientology, there is the issue of collecting it. And that could take years with all the legal shenanigans they could do…
“Recently, Australia was sufficiently remiss in following the Code of a Scientologist as to incur potential legal action. I did not understand why and investigated.
The facts resulted in my sending a cable to the Continental Director
requesting that he do the usual- refund the money and locate the bypassed
charge. The case promptly resolved. What was shocking to me is that he had not
immediately refunded, whatever else he did. Of course, he was absent when the
incident occurred, but still his first thought on finding the matter out should have been to refund the money, not because of threatened legal action, but because AN ORGANIZATION IS BOUND BY THE CODE OF A SCIENTOLOGIST.” HCO PL 23 October 1963, REFUND POLICY.
Excellent point Mike on “public policy”. There is clear distinction made by the Court on the extent of religious practice and if it cuts over into violations of public policy (things life fraud say).
In RCS’s instant case, they can rightfully claim freedom from intrusion into their practice on refunds exceptin’ if it clearly and unequivocably is a violation of the public policy of fraud, say. Like for instance if a church offers its services under a “refund policy”, and then “passes off” something else in violation of sworn statements to the IRS (not covered by First Amendment protections and providing another example of “estoppel”).
A fundamental “public policy” in this country and any civilized culture is that an entity engaged in trade (using “trademarks”) has to somehow or other be accountable for what it trades in that egregious fraud, the “passing off” of something that isn’t the something associated with the goodwill of those trademarks, is by defintion fraud and is a violation of “public policy”.
Now arguing about the actual services is a lose as that is excessive entanglement, BUT in the case of a factual repayment for services undelivered, when it has been stated in sworn affadavits by David Miscavige, to the IRS, that indeed those monies will be promptly refunded in accordance with LRH policy takes this out of the protections of practice and into the realm of the Court.
It’s a plausible argument thanks to his majesty, the Pope on a box (an applebox) and his overweening hubris. Thanks Dave.
NOTE: the “accordance with LRH policy” point is not that the Court will interpret that policy, they won’t. Just that LRH said and applied his own policy and PROMPTLY refunded the money, whatever else he did. That was what DM told the IRS would be done. By his telling them that, in sworn secular affadavits, which he is estopped from denying or “taking back”, Dave put this issue squarely in the Court’s jurisdiction.
Just wondering out loud: the top “holding company” for the RCS corporations is not a church, even though it has the word “church” in its name, to wit: “The Church of Spiritual Technology”. As I recall (and I could be way off base here) it is not a 501(c)3. But the corporations underneath ARE (ie: RTC, FSO, etc). So the First amendment protections would not extend to that umbrella corporation (which is a prima facie sham corporation, simply by virtue of the lack of proper oversight and accountability, and allowing Miscavige to destroy Scientology in deed and spirit, as well as in name.
Time to pierce the corporate veil?
Good thinking Pete. Application of the UCC has not been explored to my knowledge, probably because of the “religious cloaking” the CoS engages in.
21b) Check out those new Calvin Klein Jamaican thongs online.
22b) Get a new goddamn gerbil that isn’t so fu@%ing aggressive.
21c) Ask TC where I can find those secret Celebrity Instant Glutes exercise videos.
23) Call those retired IRS guys we blackmailed and remind ’em we still have the photos.
Yvonne, you’re so spot on! 🙂
There is a case, 490 US 680, Hernandez vs Commisioner, wherein Dave argued the “doctrine of exchange”.
For the Florida instant case, Dave is estopped from denying that a central tenet of Scientology is “exchange” and the repayment request before the Court is for something NOT exchanged, i.e., undelivered services.
The Court doesn’t have to become “excessively entangled” into interpretation of church policy on refunds/repayments. All it has to do is cite the above case.
Funny thing this “estoppel”. While DM can contradict himself moment to moment as he runs amok at Int (and no amount of word-clearing of his PT orders only can make sense of what this dipshit spouts in contradiction to himself minute to minute), he CANNOT remove from the Court record what he’s said.
Bert and Lynne have every right to their money. Their “donation” for undelivered services withheld by the FSO is a violation of the “doctrine of exchange” which DM argued to the Supreme Court of the United States.
Church of Spiritual Technology
LIST OF REMAINING PEOPLE TO DECLARE SUPPRESSIVE:
1) That bitch in Saks who turned her nose up at me.
2) Tom Cruise
3) John Travolta
4) That old bastard in San Francisco that’s been on staff longer than me.
5) Arthur Hubbard
6) Ted Koppel
7) That Korean dry cleaner who couldn’t get the ink out of my tie.
9) The Feshbachs
10) That Bart Simpson voice girl who only coughed up $10 million measly bucks.
Merci de votre accueil. Je vous remercie pour votre réponse, et vous vous exprimez très bien en français ! (Thanks for your welcome, I thank you for your reply, and you express yourself very well in French.)
These Shariah law issues seem to cry to be addressed by the Supreme Court, which might eventually happen if the right of individual States to subordinate Shariah to local and national law is ever challenged.
What if a personal renounces Islam? Would they not then be free of Shariah law? The Muslims would probably say “NO”. As other wise, how could a “fatwah” be called against a non-Muslim who, say, insulted the Prophet in a cartoon? There are certainly parallels between some Islamic attitudes and the attitudes of the CoS, as far as their “law” superseding the Constitution of the U.S.
I believe the Constitution ought to be considered the Supreme Law of the land here in the U.S. And if a person leaves a religious organization, they ought to be free of it and no longer subject to it’s strictures.
But in fact, historically, there have always been problems in the realm of the “free exercise of religion”. For example, as the Christian religion was consolidated and established, with or without a Pope, those who had their own ways of practicing their basically Chrisian beliefs were rooted out as “heretics” ( the ‘gnostics’), and in some cases actively slaughtered.
A great introduction to the early history of Christianity is a little book titled “Beyond Belief” by Elaine Pagels who is one of the world’s recognized premier scholars of early Christianity.
The same was true in Islam, in which the “gnostic” elements were warred upon by the established Islamists and some of the greatest philosophers and teachers were put to the sword.
These I feel are unsettled issues in the USA, which nonetheless has a very good foundation for a sane kind of separation of Church and State in which individual civil rights are protected as wellas the rights of a Church group are protected.
It is the balance or “middle way” that has not been completely delineated – yet.
The issue I have in mind is, who can tell an individual practitioner how he may practice his beliefs?
The answer, I believe, is – only he himself. I can consider myself a Christian or a Scientologist, without needing the validation of any outside “authority”, be considered such, as long as I consider myself such in my own estimation.
Perhaps Debbie’s moves now will eventually lead to these issues being thrashed out even up to the Supreme Court, which hopefully would rule for the supremacy of the individual’s rights under the Constitution.
If Karin Pouw states that Debbie is “uninformed and ignorant”, this immediately recoils on Scn INC. It would be considered very poor business practice to leave such a person for 17 years in charge of FSO!
There is nobody else around who has such a great record of doing well on that post.
I would love to hear a description by the church lawyers of, Scientology Law regarding refunds. And, I’d love to hear the steps a person has to take described in a way people requesting refunds won’t bother the church unnecessarily and the whole process will be standard. Doesn’t seem too much to ask.
The RCS is a “church” that doesn’t follow its own doctrine. There are many people that have left the church and want their unused money on account back. It is a matter of principle.
I totally respect your opinion. But as for me, I feel I have been stepped on enough and I will no longer take it. I don’t care if I don’t ever recover a penny, I don’t care if it takes years, I don’t care if it costs a fortune. I will take the fight to the end. And if I win, imagine the flood gates that will open for others then able to get their money. For me, that would be enough of a win.
DAVID MISCAVIGE ON TRIAL:
Prosecutor: “Mr. Miscavige, did you physically punch, choke, kick, slap, throw to the floor or otherwise use violence on these people on this list that I’m holding?”
Miscavige: “Yes, but my religion says it’s ok, so there you go. Your law doesn’t apply.”
Prosecutor: “Yes, but…
Miscavige: “First Amendment.”
Defense: “Objection, your honor…”
Judge: “Mr. Miscavige, did you say your religion makes it ok to use violence in order to be in compliance with your religious order? Is this in your scripture?”
Miscavige: “I believe it is. To me that’s what it’s saying. Rather than let all beings disappear, you do what you have to do, break whatever policy you have to break to get the show on the road. That’s my religion and I’m protected.”
Judge: “Does everyone in your religion of Scientology believe that?”
Miscavige: “Well, if they’re dedicated they do, I believe. And I’m the leader.”
Judge: “I thought Mr. L. Ron Hubbard was the leader.”
Miscavige: “He’s dead. I’m the leader now. I’m in charge. It’s my religion.”
Defense: “Your honor, may I ask what is the point of jurisprudence prompting your questioning?”
Judge: “Well, I ah…what if my religion was throwing people into wood chippers and that was my way of preying to a supreme being or something or the other? Are you saying THAT would be protected?”
Defense: “Government shall make no law…”
Judge: “Yeah, yeah, I know, I know the First Amendment…”
Prosecutor: “Your Honor, this is…”
Judge: “These are not the droids we’re looking for.”
Prosecutor: “But Your Honor…”
Judge: “Case Dismissed.”
CST is a 501 (c) 3 entity.
It IS time to pierce the corporate veil. Time to discover Dave’s unclean hands and what he’s done to violate LRH’s Trust Instruments. The sham of the Boards and the cover up of such by lawyers.
Current “Scientology Law” is whatever David Miscavige decides it is. That changes randomly.
Thanks Mike and I will send along that letter for your files. You cleared up something for me and that is “Scientology law,” in other words, ARBITRARY, and not necessarily based upon one or more sound principles. It’s more like a “law” made and held in place to handle a supposed situation. In my particular case, there isn’t a thing FSO can or will do for me except cause me more trouble; thus, I requested my unused service funds on account returned. This has been denied by the “law” (ARBITRARY) and now it will be theft because FSO will apparently keep the funds. So, there we go.
Shelley had it right about all these guys
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!’
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away”.
Just so you know many Americans are disgusted by what you describe as “American-style” regging too.. The “hard sell” is viewed as distasteful by most members of any society and not something this American tolerates in any form or guise.
I also include attempts at it that range from pushy car salesmen, MLM hucksters, TV ads, and billboards. Nothing will alienate me from a product or organization faster than the hard sell,or “you need it” or simply buying this product will make your life complete & happy – bullshit. Hard sell tactics are only usually only needed when the merits of the product don’t speak/ sell itself, and therefore coercion must be employed.
Miscavige in bathroom mirror combing his hair, making up lyrics to a rap song playing in the background:
I’m short and I’m lean
I’m a mean machine
I drink Mr. Clean
I beat Ted Koppel
Mess with me and you’re all gonna topple
Heh, heh, heh, ha-ha-ha-HA!
With Darth Midget in charge, there is only one management position – bent over with the butt cheeks spread.
Michael A. Hobson
I’m lost for words!!!!
But… All we need to do is make sure we keep talking
Jim, thanks for that!
So, here you are preaching defeatism, eh ?
Pointless to try and get a refund or repayment from Co$, eh ?
Michael A. Hobson
The naming of the Church of Scientology as a fraud (as opposed to individuals) does indeed open the door to dissolving the Church of Scientology in France. I am terribly sorry for French Scientologists, who have been victimized, as have we all, by David Miscavige. I personally spent three years helping to establish the Paris Org 1969-73 when LRH was alive. Small independent groups are the wave of the future in France, I think, as elsewhere. I understood the reasoning on making Scientology a church, but felt that the original assoication format was much more suited to France.
CP, that is Hilarious!
you can take that to the bank!
It’s amazing how we think alike sometimes. That exact quote is what I wrote to Sarah Heller at one point in my cycle. They were of course trying to say I could not get third party help and risking my claim. I told them if they could show me actual LRH to that effect or provide copies to me of any document I signed stating those things when I paid that money or any time prior back to 1978 I would honor it. I then included the actual LRH including the quote you provided showing the contradictions of LRH’s intentions and the current policies.
I saw this attempt to stop all repayments coming. They made my repayment a “confidential settlement agreement” complete with gag order stating they were not in agreement they had to give me back any money at all. I refused to sign or any gag order and got the money. However the writing was on the wall.
A few recent cycles I’ve been advising on went the next step. I have evidence no one who’s declared was being required to do anything beyond the first section of the routing form to get their money back and helped someone get money back from three churches.
I was recently sent an email Cara sent someone claiming again that they had violated policy and had sent a virtually blank routing form (it was actually filled out, treasury account balance confirmed by FSO and no violations had occurred.) She stated they would now have to get an arbitration due to this as their claim was being denied for violations.
I have a trick I used at one point which did work once and expanded that into a plan that I told Marty about that he said he would promote if I wanted. I then decided to hold off as it may have hurt some people’s chances of getting their money who were mid cycle. He agreed. This plan would only be used once it was obvious there was an order that no repayments would be paid anymore. That day seems to be here.
But not quite yet……If this case is lost in Pinellas and a precendent set, it’ll be time to go the next step and big. Anyone interested in details about this “project” please email me at email@example.com
My postulates are with Luis, Bert and Lynne and their attorney Brian.
On another note, two die hards with ties that bind beyond most, who would never have considered leaving previously, are both in comm with me despite my expanded goldenrod and are convinced DM is an SP now. The Debbie Cook lawsuit was the tipping point. Miscavige is on self destruct and it’s only a matter of time now, the end is near.
But let’s keep any new dangerous legal precedents from being set in the meantime as it’s harder to get rid of something that’s been put in place then to prevent it in the first place!
That’s fascinating re now airing a dusted off “dissemination ad” in the Clearwater area.
This shows the amount of pressure it takes on SCN INC from the OUTSIDE for them to ACTUALLY do what they said they’d do (IAS grants used for expansion via ads) and what they should have done anyway.
This also clearly shows that there is NO OTHER WAY than attacking from the outside to bring them back to source.
Add this one to the reforms ACTUALLY achieved after having exerted HEAVY pressure (read exposure) on them: Cancelling Freeloader debts (or greatly reducing them), letting pregnant S.O. members route out swiftly (no more pressure to do abortion), etc.
This is comparable to a good Ethics Officer exerting MORE pressure on a Preclear than his bank exerts on him.
When writing this I don’t mean that there are real THOROUGH REFORMS taking place, rather just some directives sent out quickly to minimize their own exposure to just cover their butts.
DM & Co. have this tremendous attitude of ‘being above the law’, using the law like ‘playing the piano’.
They must truly hate the Internet which now connects dots that were supposed to stay hidden. Now the WWW can see what DM’s left hand and what his right hand is doing.
How thoroughly embarrassing when one cannot be honest, which would be the only way out!
That is “association”, sorry for the typo. In France, there is a special class of entity called an association and the first Scientology group in France was the Association Hubbard des Scientologues Francais. This worked well there. We are always being asked “why are you calling it a church now?” once we had to become L’Eglise de Scientologie de France to comply with international policy. Scientology is not recognized as a religion in France and probably never will be. “L’Eglise” is the Catholic Church. However, an association giving courses and sessions in an applied philosophy (there is a long tradition of philosophy in France) was very acceptable to the public there. Perhaps the name “Scientologie” is too discredited to use anymore there. Another name could be used.
Scientology ‘scripture’ dictates that refunds be granted in a speedy manner.
So does ‘secular’ law trump ‘scripture’ or does ‘scripture’ trump ‘secular’ law?
I tracked this down, once upon a time many years ago. The IAS accounts were in Luxembourg at that time. At least a portion of them. Its banking secrecy laws and notoriety as a tax haven are likely why. IAS money stays in the US for a very short time only. It goes offshore very quickly and is moved multiple times in an offshore network.
doesn’t that take the cake right off the oven?
A little tidbit from HCOPL “Ethics Review”
The PL lists the series of ethics gradients from noticing something non optimum and not even mentioning it all the way to expulsion.
At the end of the PL it states:
“The above is a rough guide to the severity of discipline.
“Note none of it carries any physical punishment or detention.”
Regardless of whether miscavige tries to argue “church” or “corporation” he’s going to get nailed. He can’t argue that this is a “religious matter” because, according to its founder, physical punishment or detention are not part of the church or its tenets. So miscavige is simply lying if he says that coercing or forcing a person to remain is his ecclesiastical right.
I am dying to hear what a jury of twelve normal americans will have to say about Debbie’s treatment. And I’m going to love to see how miscavige tries to spin it into his first amendment rights to treat her that way.
It didn’t work for the catholic church or for momons and their underage “brides” and it aint’ gonna work for dave.
My bet is that if you get right down to it, the only thing Debbie was really “willing” to do was to have miscavige comm ev’d and then prosecuted for his crimes against the church and the individuals he’s tortured.
“truncated OTVIII” OMG this is story in itself. I met an OT8 who was massively disappointed in that level then another who was so glad it was all over and could go on with life. Another one when done with that level was distant and out of comm and not at all jumping in any kind of joy, I thought maybe that person just didn’t like me…now I know the level was truncated. Very sad, are the current OT 8’s still getting this truncated version? Iffing DM.
Mike Rinder is completely correct on this, but I would be extremely suprised if the courts decided to look into whether Miscavige and the COS were either correctly or fairly interpreting/applying internal COS policies. That is almost unheard of. Except……. if there is a poltical reason to go after Miscavige (someone decides to “get him” for some reason). I may research this later, but many of you may remember the Jim Bakker case (late 80s or early 90s I think). Jim and his wife Tammi Bakker had a popular daily TV show and ran a religious retreat called “Heritage USA.” Bakker sold time shares in his new hotel for $1,000 – lifetime share which entitled one to something like 3 nights a year at the hotel. It sold out quickly and he had to start building a second tower. After a 2D scandal involving hush money to a secretary, he was indicted for as I recall fraud, as he quite oversold the time shares and could not fulfill people’s reservations. He wound up going to prison for about 4 or 5 years. It was almost unprecedented that the courts would go after an internal issue like this in a church (at the same time a guy named Tipton from Dallas was offering prayer towels for donations, these towels promising all sorts of blessings, good luck and cures). At the time of the Bakker scandal, there was much publicity over ethics in “televangelism” which probably put pressure on the gov’t to prosecute him. Religions ALL promise eternal salvation and most of them get as much money and mest from parishioners as they can. And people have little recourse to the courts (except such as in last year’s renegade Mormon leader where he was convicted of multiple rapes/child abuse). So I think there would really have to be a VERY unusual reason or an extreme case for the courts to decide to see if the COS is consistently following its own policy. Now, having said that, the exception here may just very well be THE IMMENSE SUMS OF MONEY INVOLVED. If this case can be made to include millions of bucks and/or involve people making charges of “mind control”, “extortion”, etc (and really publicize bizarre reg cycles that involve keeping people up all night, detained on a ship, threats against their familial comm lines and “their eternity”,etc.), then there just might be enough political/media pressure brought to bear where a DA or state’s attorney will decide to make charges against even a church.
Great summary Mike. The 4th dynamic is impinging on Miscavige and he is actually spitting out his counter intention: David Miscavige is above the law.
22c) Figure out how in the world I am going to explain what I have done when the time comes and I have to face LRH
From milestone one, facsimilies: how to handle recordings.
“This is the history of the race. Somebody learns something about the mind. He promptly makes a secret out of it, a mystery out of it and uses it against minds. that’s what is very peculiar about Scientology and the works on which I’ve been engaged in the last twenty-two years. It’s been in an effort to expose ALL phenomena of the mind so you couldn’t do it anymore”
recorded 7 Mar 1952,
Same year as the PDC’s
You’ll notice though it is called “REFUND” policy. When I got into Scientology in 1970, one did occasionally hear about someone on the “refund line.” These were usually folks who were VERY tough cases, out of ARC individuals and they were given their refunds quickly. If these became anything other than rare, it was considered a HUGELY bad indicator on tech lines and investigations were swift as to out tech and out ethics. The term “money on account” was never used. Actually in those days, money that wasn’t used right away for a service was not counted on the GI but put into a special account (and couldn’t be used until the person got the service). Though you have to realize that the vast majority of public only gave money because they WANTED to do the service and so actually got on course or into the HCC. My org at the time was the biggest in the world. What radically changed all this? Ah ….. scheduled price increases created a whole new reg world. “Buy now or it will cost you more next month.” And there were ALWAYS promotional packages of one sort or another….”only good until Thursday, buy now and save 50%.” THEN folks started building up all this money “on account” as this was the only way to “save money.” Back in 1970, ALL services were at fixed prices which never changed and so folks paid when they were going to do a course (HSDC $500, each level $250 but $1,000 if you bought all 5 levels at once, $625 an intensive, still remember the prices from 4o plus years ago!). When this huge amount of money started accumulating, the financial policy of the org changed and those monies on account for future services started counting on the GI and was spent each week. But again, I never heard of people just requesting repayment of money on account; it was ALWAYS refunds for dissatisfied pc’s (never students). But you can understand the RISK now presented to an org as some of these dissatisfied pc’s may have ALSO had money on account for training.
Flash forward to PT. NOW, there are tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars “on account” at the FSO and Freewinds. I realize that very few of the folks who post on this blog would ever ask for a “refund” and claim dissatisfaction with their auditing, but from the COS’s point of view, there is a FORTUNE at risk here if the hole in the dam ever gets wider. ESPECIALLY now that it will become known that folks can go get these services for much less money OUTISIDE the church. $35,000 is chump change to the COS. But not what it represents. And then if folks decide to say “…you know, I don’t really think my auditing was standard per the rules set down by L. Ron Hubbard, I want my money back that I paid for that auditing as now I need to get it repaired.” And if the courts start to look into any criminal practices (fraud, extortion) in regards to Super Power or the IAS? Well, then…..WHOA….NELLIE (sportscaster Keith Jackson used to shout these on college football games, ha)….. then EVERYTHING is at risk for Mister Miscavage. ALL of the money. Y’all dig?
Additions to BP:
24) See if anyone remembers where we left Tommy Davis and Shelley. Ann Archer wants to visit Int and we need a story QUICKLY.
25) Get Kirstie Alley a boyfriend so she stops talking about it on TV talk shows.
26) Call up TC and tell him John Travolta is still in Scientology, he’s just “working on some projects now.”
23) Contact the same lawyer of Mark Facebook boy to see if he can save my a$$.
24) Gradiently start switching out LRH busts with the one I had done of me.
@ Random Stranger. Loved POB’s Battle Plan. I had a very good laugh. Thank you.
@Jethro Bodineo. I concurr with your idea that ideals of the Church would be better protected if it were a not-for-profit entity rather than a religious one. That isn’t to say that it isn’t a religion, only that the not-for-profit idea offers more protection for pcs and staff.
Hope it helps.
Contrast that from LRH with NON disclosure from David Miscavige. Geez, you’d think with absolutes being unobtainable we’d find ONE thing DM doesn’t do completely reversed to Scientology.
It IS a non-profit.
P.S. Hey, Dave, imagine – you LOST Hernandez and now, well it looks like you can lose again in Florida because of what? Hernandez!!
Yep, “estoppel”, funny word that. Funny how the Supreme Court of the United States Court Record of 490 US 680 is “fair game” and has zero “excessive entanglement” issues on your previous sworn statements. Those aren’t covered by the First Amendment shieldy-wieldy Dave. Even if YOU don’t get that, your lawyers do. Or soon will.
Claire, I don’t think another name would be a handling of some sorts or a good option. I think the best is to put out the truth that is:
a) in the name of and disguised as “Scientology” actions and activities have been performed (and are performed) that clearly violate the principles, the policies and the tech of Scientology. Refusing repayments or even making it a long cycle is off-policy.
To audit a process beyond its end phenomena is out-tech. NO auditor who followed the Auditor’s Code from L. Ron Hubbard would do that. (This refers not only to Objectives, but also to entire sections of the Bridge.) etc. etc. etc
b) therefore, Scientology is a wrong target. The proper target is any off-shot practice by the C of S who claims copyrights and trademarks, however practices something something entirely different and contrary than they claim to have a copyright for. And the person behind it.
The C of S behaves like an agent provocateur. That seems to be the line they walk and what directs her actions.
Applause here!! Thanks Luis!!
Thats what the Taliban said too.
“Only Sharia applies.”
But of course, Scn is different.
Uniform Commercial Code.
I did. Will dig out my paperwork forward it to you.
The entire OTVIII level was re-engineered by Miscavige. The level had to be truncated because the narratives on it led to confusion. You now have a situation where scientology denies its own founder.
The bottom line is that in the first few years after Hubbard’s death, scientology scrambled to put together the “Freewinds” and the delivery of OTVIII. It raised millions based on expectations. However, the delivery has never been correct. The OT levels in scientology are far from the standard ‘tech’ that is promoted. Miscavige gives out a simple spoonful
because the ‘truth’ is far too complicated to deliver
There has definitely been a sea change in regards to the Church handling of refund/repayment requests. Up until some point in the last few years, the dollar value of refund/repayment requests and the number of refund/repayment suits were counted negatively as an “upside down statistic”, i.e. the ideal scene measured at the top of the graph was 0 and the quantity of suits or amounts being requested were counted downwards from 0 as negative numbers. This motivated those concerned to actually resolve the RR requests and suits quickly, not stonewall, refuse and right them. This has obviously changed in recent years. It would be interested to know the dollar quantity of outstanding requests and number of outstanding suits now. In addition to fearing a run on the bank, the other motivation is to prevent the migration of these funds from the Church into the hands of independents and independent practitioners, i.e. as funding for the independent economy. The Church does not want to give ex-members large sums of money that it believes may then end up in the hands of people like Marty, Trey, or Karen #1. It really is attempting to plug the holes in the dyke with legally dangerous strategies and maneuvers.
And even if you don’t win the case, Luis, I think the more people who try, the more the trend will go in the direction of people starting to win cases like these.
Vercingétorix wrote ” I used to think, like them, that it is only the French government and psychs who have been responsible for the poor reputation, but now I see the leadership of DM is responsible to a great degree”
I agree. It comes to me now that there has not been a concerted effort against the Church in the media EXCEPT for that which was put into operation BY THE CHURCH itself.
The psychs and government, once intently working on taking the Church apart bit by bit “seem” to have ceased. Why?
Perhaps because they realized the Church was doing itself in? Or was some person(s) co-opted to their purposes, to take their actions internal and work them from the inside – out?
I don’t know, but it seems to me that much changed after the Hill & Knowlton/Eli Lilly debacle and the very bad decisions made in it’s wake. That’s my personal historical perspective on it though, and maybe it really did start far before that.
I agree with Marty that the Church is now rotten to the core. An organization is made up of individuals and this one has both SPs and squirrels in it’s company with one surely at “the top”, as well as those severely damaged, and PTS, to them. We can’t trust the former, or the latter, to run the Church per policy.
You don’t seek to use nonoperational tools, regardless if they’re objects or people. Failure can be the only result.
Mike – a great write-up, right on the money. I truly hope that these shenanigans employed by Corporate Scientolgy(i.e David Miscavige) will rebound on him. Dave deserves this break!!
“But David Miscavige ist not a Scientologist.”
The simplicities sometimes just JUMP off the page and have to be pointed out.
He may sue people in England but he allready lost royally in the dutch courts and by default in the European court as an effect of that.
His lawyers are using “The Jim Jones Argument”
Perfect, Michael. He also had it right about standing up to be counted.
“Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number-
Shake your chains to earth like
Which in sleep had fallen on you
Ye are many-they are few.”
GTC: Make no mistake, this is not going to end until justice is served.
And like his inconsistent positions in Texas versus Florida, they are sooner or later going to find themselves confronting lawsuits demanding money back from the IAS and “Super Power” (the REAL big money) and positions they have taken trying desperately to defend against returning monies on account are going to haunt them.
Check out the recent Garth Brooks case. Charitable donations based on promises made and then not delivered on resulted in a return of those donations plus damages. Food for thought for those who have had promises made to them by Super Power and IAS Regs (wonder if there is anyone who has NOT been promised something — even their name on a plaque/honor roll list?)
“Estoppel” literally means ‘to stop’. It is used when someone persues legal proceedings on something that has already been legally resolved. If you win a court case, and the opposition keeps taking you to court for the same thing over and over, the judge can issue an ‘estopple’, which means no more submissions by the opponent on that issue.
I’ve used it on someone who kept taking me to court to change a court order that had already been heard and denied more than once. That person cannot make any more court submissions to change that court order. The exception being if something relevent was unheard at the time, then the judge can give permission to the opponent to return to court on that same issue again.
26b) Remind TC that I put in more hours last week than he did.
SWEDEN RECOGNIZES FILE SHARING RELIGION
This is true:
That’s not really what Jethro said, as I read it. He said maybe the RCS strategy is to wait until a suit is filed and make the claimant jump through a lot of hoops. And that the intent and result of that strategy may be that few go to the trouble, not that he advocates that. I took what he said as an analysis of the suspected strategy. It’s great that some have been able to find or create the means to go up against the RCS legally, but anyone who ruminates on the pros and cons is a defeatist?
Good point. I will donate as soon as I can.
Association may be the better model here. Originally, I understand, the “mission network” was to function largely independently in a LOOSE association with the Co$. I’ve said this before: the key to making Scientology and the benefits of good auditing known is EXAMPLE. No friend of yours is going to watch you get smarter and happier and ‘gooder’ for very long without a) getting curious enough, b) offended enough, and finally c) subjecting you to a “third degree interrogation” about how the heck you get this, where do you get it, when did you get it, and how can you be so impossibly heartless and selfish to not SHARE the wealth like a decent human being would??! (Capitalists call this “demand”.)
P.S. People in Missouri call it “show me”. Scns outside the “church” call it “results”.
27) I, David Miscavige, am now establishing a new precedent – WHEN WE SAY WE’RE CLEARING THE PLANET, I NOW WANT THE PLANET CLEARED OF ALL BODIES AND LET THE THETANS GO BACK TO THE VOLCANOES.
Ahh… I hope the main point isn’t being missed. If one of the conditions of the religious exemption from the IRS was “prompt refund of money” then I don’t think the religous excuse holds any water. Miscavige agreed to the refund BEFORE they had a religious exemption. Therefore religion has nothing to do with it. He is violating a secular agreement with the IRS.
+1 and Well said, Luis! JB, imagine all the unused $$ the Cult of Scientology has “on account” and had to return…! On top of it all the IAS fraud money! This may very well cripple Miscavige and his cult…
Anyone who is willing to help me and my husband get back our IAS money can keep 10% or 50% or hell the whole thing – I don’t care as long as it teaches Miscavige and his cult a lesson! I am serious; if you are interested contact me: firstname.lastname@example.org
27) Find an LRH elderly look alike so I can make a video of him turning over the organization to me.
I have a question can we ask to TC to start the Operation Valkyrie in Scientology.
Random I have a question are you working on making movies….you are good on this…lol.
Mike, I have received 6 repayments from various orgs, including the FSO, and the FSSO and at no time did anyone ask me to do a routing form. At times, there was mention of a routing form, but the terminals I was dealing with were apparently doing it for me. They would say things like “It’s now on it’s way to the CVB, and after it gets approved, you can have your check.” Would you still like the info on these cycles? These were between March 2010 all through 2011.
Good points, Worsel.
Carcha — You are very right. The biggest source of new public has always been word of mouth. And that requires RESULTS. And that is something in short supply in the RCS these days as the only results David Miscavige is interested in are number of checks received and credit cards dinged.
Yes, I understand. Well said!
I agree completely. A church is understood to be centered around Christ, in France “Église” is only used for the Catholic Church. Spiritual Association or Applied Spiritual Philosophy is much better. Scientologie as a name has been dead-agented, so while the subject of study should remain Scientology, any group would do best to disassociate itself from the name, CoS, by using another. Also, I disagree respectfully with Ron for taking a Catholic cross and “redefining” it, to use as a symbol. It may initially have worked to gain acceptance as a religion, but it creates friction and distrust with the the Christian world. People in France are no longer fooled by this, so the S and double triangles would be better, or perhaps a completely new and fresh symbol would be best.
Yes, agreed. I fully believe that all Scn works, by LRH and others (such as Mary Sue) be released to the public domain. The Bible and Koran are in the public domain, and I see no dearth of Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
Of course, in a few years it all will be in the public domain, but from my point of view, just do it now.
Ahhh… But you have to consider that THE person running the entire Scientology Church, by his own admission, doesn’t “understand what you mean by ‘management”. (this he actually said in a deposition) He has little or no management training at all. So even the current “highest level” of Management in the Church, the self elected COB (Chairman Of the Board) has not, and is not “holding any senior management position.”
He is, in fact, just pretending to be of any significance at all.
Actually it wouldn’t surprise me if he actually used that very defense should he ever be brought into court to answer to his crimes…. I can just hear him squealing and sniveling…”I couldn’t possibly be responsible for any of that because I have never been in management.”
Ah yes, I remember that court transcript. DM was or pretended to be completely out of it. I would say he WAS out of it and remembering that embarrassing moment does not endear to him the prospect of getting deposited AGAIN. Therefore it seems like a great target to go for this, i.e. get him into a position of deposition whichever way possible.
Thanks Bob for duplicating what I was saying. I’m not advising anyone not to sue, I was speculating on what the C of S’s strategy might be. It almost looks like they want people to sue them. Either way, what they’re currrently doing is not consistent with LRH policy and is not in agreement with what was promised to the IRS, and it’s horrible PR as well (not that they ever cared about how bad something looks).
I should say, good points except that the very name “Scientologie” will probably drive French people away in droves, whether it is fair or not.
Since the Justice Chief is their only terminal, the RCS has forbidden them from completing the routing form, getting signatures, etc. They are forbidden by “policy” from appearing in front of those 3 Scientologists in good standing.
You can’t get there from here.
I thought right away when I read “Only Scientology Law Applies” of the Shiria parallel. The interesting thing is that the U.S. Government would gladly get into the trenches with Miscavige and set the “U.S. Government wins where there’s a conflict with your darn religion” precedent. There’s so few Scientologists in the U.S. and the press doesn’t knee-jerk defend Scientology that it’s much more possible that the USAG could see his way clear to tackle Miscavige first.
The other thing that struck me was that the “my religion trumps the US Government rules” has been set in order to allow Catholic Churches to practice their religion and forbid their medical institutions to perform abortions in direct contravention to U.S. rulings. There’s also the “conscience clause” under which a Catholic doctor, nurse, or facility can refuse to give the “morning after pill”.
With evidence that Miscavige promotes and insists on abortions, while the Holy Scriptures of Scientology tell how damaging Attempted Abortions are to the soul of the developing fetus, it might be possible for a clever attorney to prove that Miscavige has been violating “Scientology Law” for decades and therefore Miscavige’s plaintive cry that “Only Scientology Law Applies” has already been set aside by Miscavige’s own actions.
I am getting close to requesting a repayment of money on account at various orgs also and would like any info or you can give me on your cycles as well as any advice you might have.