CNN AC 360 Part One

 

Open Forum on AC 360 Part I, which can be seen here http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/29/video-scientology-a-history-of-violence/  

My only comment is reference to L Ron Hubbard’s words from the lecture Overt Acts, Motivators and Deds (lecture #8) Technique 88 Lectures 25 June 1952:

When you speak of the creator, and you’re probably speaking of something entirely different than implanted religion. Religion is always different than truth. It has to be. Because the only way you can control a people is to lie to them. And you can write that down in your book there-very big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them-lie to them. 

All right, now look. When you find an individual is lying to you, you know that the individual is trying to control you. You can put that down. One way or the other, this individual is trying to control you. That’s a mechanism of control. The individual is lying to you, so they’re trying to control you. Because if they give you enough misinformation they’ll throw you far enough down the Tone Scale so they can control you.

 Conversely, if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not is just going to-but IS lying to you. Check up the facts, you’ll find out they’re always true. That person is trying to control you, he’s lying to you. He’s got to tell you lies, in order to continue to control, because the second you start telling anybody anything close to truth, you start releasing him, and he gets tougher and tougher to control.  So you can’t control somebody, without telling them a bunch of fibs. 

You’ll find that command has this very often as its greatest weakness.  It’ll try to control instead of lead. And the next thing you know, it’s lying to the crew, lying to the crew lie, lie, lie, lie,lie. And it gets worse and worse, then all of a sudden the thing blows up. 

Well religion has done this. Organized religion, tries to control, so therefore it must be lying, and therefore it must know it’s lying-after a while it figures out that even itself knows it’s lying. And then it starts on down the Tone Scale and gets further and further and further and people all of a sudden get down across this spring bottom and-‘Are we going into apathy and die or are we going to revolt?’ And they will revolt. You can only lie to people so long. But fortunately-unfortunately, there’s always a new cycle of lying.

As I use the word religion, it has nothing to do with God.

305 responses to “CNN AC 360 Part One

  1. Well DM if you think for one moment anyone is being fooled by TD and Norman Starkey and the women you put out in front you are so mistaken.
    You are scrambling and it makes you look even worse than you are. You can deny, deny, deny and the only thing it does is leave others with well then why isn’t the “leader” speaking for himself? You will pay for all of your wrong doings to others. You are known for your crimes and no amount of TC’s PR people can fix that for you.

  2. Marty, First of all, great quote. Having just watched the first part of AC360, I am utterly appalled at the blatant lies that Jenny Linson and Norman Starkey are willing to make on camera. Their facial expressions, their attitudes, and their entire composure, come across as individuals who are covering up for someone. And in the process, they blatantly lie.

    Shame on you Starkey. And shame on you Linson.

    LRH says in the PR Series, in capital letters as a Law of PR:

    “DO NOT TELL LIES IN PR!”

    You both have blatantly lied in front of the world, in front of your fellow Scientologists and you have violated your integrity and, in so doing, you have embarassed LRH and the entire church.

    You have made a mockery of being a Scientologist, letalone a Sea Org member.

  3. I saw the show and it will have more context I think when all the parts are out there. This show will have tremendous reach, since every hotel in the world just about carrys CNN International and Anderson Cooper is on there all the time.

    Typical DM move to have all these people show up the day of the show to be interviewed. They frankly all looked terrible! Pale, tired and in some cases very thin.

    Cathy Rinder was in the background and did not look well. Nor did Guillaume or Anne Rathbun.

    The body language told the whole story. Anne Ratbun, Jenny Devocht and Cathy Rinder were all sitting with their arms and legs tightly crossed and strain on their faces. They know they are lying and it is obvious to anyone looking at them.

    Norman Starkey on the other hand is on Mars! He witnessed more shit than just about anyone except for Marty and he had more shit done to him over the years than most people. For him to sit there and rant away is despicable.

    Norman was the former Executor of LRH’s estate and I think LRH would have been angry at what Norman was saying tonight. Norman should be ashamed.

  4. Where there is smoke, there is fire!

    If DM were so clean on this whole thing he would be out in the public confronting all the allegations because he would know they were false and would have nothing to worry about. I think it speaks volumes about what is really happening at INT that he is unwilling to be interviewed or will publicly speak out himself and answer questions. He can’t go on record or he will really have a big legal battle brewing against him and the church.

  5. Fellow Traveller

    Based on the preview I just saw — you are a handsome devil indeed. And you are true criminal — impeccable being thereness and communicatingness. (wide grin)

  6. It was excellent Marty.

    Jenny Linson was so agressive and Ann was contradicting their own affidavits, it definitely made them look foolish.

    While you on the other hand were calm and honest. And we got to see Chiquita again too. 🙂

  7. Pretty good start.

    Norman Starkey looked liked a major Kool-aide drinker.

    The “wives” looked flustered and when one of them accused Anderson Cooper of being “rude” it made HER look rude and “TR’s out”.

    Marty, I salute you. It takes courage to confront this scene and I felt some charge blow in my universe.

    I liked when AC asked the one woman “don’t they have phones??”. The funny part is that they don’t!!

    I think this show tonight brought about some AS-ISNESS. But obviously more needs to be done.

    Thanks again to you Marty, You ROCK!!!!!
    Alex

  8. The above LRH quote completely explains registrars. 🙂

    Thought you did very well on tonight’s segment, Marty.

  9. Also: methinks Tommy Davis doth protest too much.

  10. Well, the best news is that Anderson not only differentiated between Scientology and the Church, but he articulated the distinction very clearly. That’s a good win.

    And Marty, of course, was great.

    I don’t, however, think Anderson has so far made the best case for what is actually going on. A very important part of the picture is that there are dozens of people who have witnessed DM’s savagery, all of whom can back up what Marty said. I hope Anderson does some sort of survey of the sheer number of people who can attest to the abuse, rather than just showing sound bites from a few interviews.

    Also, the way this segment was presented, it’s the word of few people against the word of a few other people. But the C of M members writing the affidavits and insisting that DM is a saint and that Marty and Mike are lying can be dead-agented easily. To demonstrate their motive for lying, someone needs to explain the culture of the church and the fact that all these people would be declared, RPF’d, thrown out, and disconnected from family and friends if they told the truth. Without that understanding, it leaves the audience with a “he said / he said.” But if that is explained it becomes clear that the ex-wives and the church spokespeople are lying.

    It was very nerve wracking to watch the churchies slander Marty and Mike and try to shift responsibility for what DM himself created to those who have actually woken up and taken responsibility for it.

    The worst was Norm Starkey. He was positively scary in his righteous indignation. I hope someone in the various interviews exposes some of his crimes!

  11. First, I liked the fact that Anderson seems to have honestly tried to be impartial by showing a good balance of both sides. This will give the subject a lot of credibility.
    Second, it is obvious DM is desperate, sending people in last minute. I bet those who showed up are doing so as part of some lower condition.

  12. Who was the woman (SO) who told Anderson
    he was being rude? I have a feeling that was the
    first footbullet of the series. THAT attitude, whereby she showed us just a little glimmer of the arrogance, the hubris, the imperiousness that makes the violence against other group members possible, was not lost on Anderson.

    What nobody among the church representatives seems to realize is that Anderson Cooper is smart enough to get to the truth, and he’s dealt with much more sophisticated liars than this before. The church will have to do more than send in ex-execs, ex-spouses, tommy davis and lawyers; they will have to make a convincing case. Having the truth on their side would really help a lot right now. Too bad for them.

    Cooper just whet our appetites tonight. Should get pretty interesting tomorrow.

    Btw, where’s dave?

  13. Great job Marty!

    It’s a contrast to Tommy’s shifty eyes – who’s lyin?

    Anne looks like she’s aged 20 years since I saw her. She and Jenny could not think with question not on their “lines” and so had to attack AC. These two haven’t slept much and needed lots of rouge.

    Norman was on vicious dog attack mode and not genuine, forced tone level 1.5-2.

    I wish AC would keep the segments together, it was quite distracting to hear of other “breaking news” in between.

  14. Absofrickin’lutely!! Just finished watching the CNN special. Holding back the comments until I see what else is in store. Well, maybe not. Tommy Davis has low confront. TR’s are out. Norman Starkey’s eyeballs looked like they were going to come flying out of his head, wrap around and smack him in the back of the head, and Le Serve, seemed to be very antsy, nervously looking about. Here’s my view-I’ve viewed SCN. as my spiritual freedom. The road out. A combination of auditing, but more importantly training. IF the Church fails, I always have the tech to pull my sorry arse out of the muck. I can read. I can duplicate. I can clear words. I believe in dictionary’s. The basics. I also know that man is fallible. Planet Earth is a sorry arse state of affairs. But…when I sit back and watch Tommy2Tone spew forth lies, and listen to Jennifer Linden tell Anderson he’s being rude, which of course never occurs to her that her comments are, I have to have some type of faith in mankind that the truth will prevail. Zana~

  15. Jenny Linson jumped on Anderson Cooper in an alarmingly antagonistic way. It was curiously identical to how Tommy Davis postures indignation. She acted “insulted” and “victimized.” However, it seems like an act, exaggerated and insincere.

    Tommy Davis was dodging his eyes all over the place as he said “never never never never” (4X) did Miscavige absolutely never engage in physical violence.

    I’m very saddened to see the corrupt dishonesty has taken over Scientology. The people on Anderson Cooper were IMHO as much Scientologists as a lamb butcher is Little Bo Peep.

    Marty, I can’t help but think of your courage and discomfort, of the suffering of all involved. Thank you for standing up and speaking out.

  16. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Exactly! I noticed that too.

    But Anderson is sharp and was all over it. Made them both look foolish.

    Who is the Hinson chick? And why didn’t anybody ever let her do a TRs course?

  17. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Meant Linson.

  18. Tone 41 said: “Well, the best news is that Anderson not only differentiated between Scientology and the Church, but he articulated the distinction very clearly. That’s a good win.”

    Yes, I noted that also. Excellent. Factual.

  19. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Yeah. Norman Starkey was consistent with his Mission Holders conference performance. It looks like he went over to the dark side of the force (where only force counts and ARC and theta are cancelled) long long ago.

  20. The people DM sent at the last minute looked frazzled and wound tight. They came off as offensive and hostile also … because they are. They’re mixed up puppies.

  21. War and Peace

    Congratulations Marty !
    You came across as credible, personable, a straight shooter.
    Linson was utterly gross to name call and ATTACK the the host.
    I think CNN put that clip in on purpose to show the BAD Manners and instant ATTACK of a journalist.
    I surveyed some WOGS who watched this.
    Scientology reps was not believed and you were.
    Norman Starkey who was punched so badly by DM that is hearing aid got busted, prattles lies in a fervor for little Napoleon.
    North Korean indoctrination gets a product….

  22. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Well done Marty. I know that must be tough. You have courage and integrity.

    Nice quote too. As I read it the mass for me was Norm Starkey’s performance. Same with Tommy, but Norm just reeks of this reference. And when Norm was saying overt speaking loudly I just thought of him being the example of an overt speaking loudly. He was unsuccessful at trying to project it onto you. He is so stuck in his own mess he cannot even direct any attention elsewhere.

  23. I had to laugh when I saw those affidavits in stacks. It’s OSA’s typical BS to rally up the crowds to put in writing how right they are in their crusade to make them right and everyone else wrong. I stand corrected on the spelling of Jennifer Linson’s last name. Oh, and by the way….why doesn’t Mike come out in the open more often? I was surprised that he didn’t want to appear and comment in public. ~

  24. The fellow at the end — Ray Starkey — made some shocking and disturbing parallels, based on lies (or misinformation) (or both):

    1) The people who are whistleblowers were not “defrocked”. Many of the people coming forward and speaking out were tracked, followed, imprisoned, had to escape, and refused to return to the compound. To say they were “booted out” is a lie.

    To characterize them as “bitter” and “liars” cheesy natter.

    2) Ray Starkey actually drew a parallel between David Miscavige and the POPE? Say huh?

    3) Starkey misrepresented Scientology. He said M “can never come back to Scientology ever again”. That’s Out tech and not Scientology policy. Even hardboiled SPs, who have steps as recourse.

    4) Could there be a more obnoxiously BAD example of what Scientology and a Scientologist is than that bitter, aggressive, irritable lot? The Ex-Wives Club and Tommy Davis and Ray Starkey? Just plain ENTHETA.

  25. Marty,

    Fascinating article on so many fronts.

    Knowing all of the speakers, of most interest was that Anne could not bold face lie to Anderson, “correcting” the statement from the COBs affidavits on you being involved in wholesale and rampant violence to “isolated incidents” on your behalf.

    Where Anne refused to lie in order to throw you under the bus, Jennifer DeVocht cuts her off to embellish and attack not only you, but Anderson for having the audacity to ask questions obvious to any observer. Gosh, what must Tom have gone through married to that pretty package rabid pit bull with lip gloss.

    The other point of interest is that the church refused to be interviewed until TODAY, meaning the planned show for today, the one developed over the past 9 months had to be thrown out the window and the entire thing re-edited probably up to minutes before the show aired.

    Devo looks good, very good, strong and certain.

    You did well, I only wonder how much was removed … look forward to the rest of the week.

    Over all, I think it was a good start, with barrage after barrage of the best attorney and PR efforts the church could throw at it, that this was CNNs opening volley shows that Anderson has a real understanding of what is going on.

    I watched the segment with non Scientologists who openly laughed out loud at Norman Starkey’s statement.

    In summary, DM and his hired army may have prevented some material being aired in this show, but sending in his army of broken slaves gave more credibility to your statements than triple the time of you or other ex int staffers.

    Well done and thank you.

    Your Friend

  26. The haughty arrogance of the Devocht/Linson chick, telling Cooper he was being rude, TR’s out. The “greatest good for the greatest number” would be to not have a leader that has brought on these attacks in the first place and having to be the front man/woman covering up for the man hiding behind your skirts, coward.

  27. ————————————————————
    Dear Anderson,

    I have been a Scientologist for thirty five years and was Scientology staff for most of those including a quarter of a century in the Sea Organization.

    Sadly, the allegations made on your Monday night show regarding David Miscavige’s abuse, violence and the climate of fear and terror he fostered within church management are true and are but the tip of the iceberg.

    It looked like the nay sayers came on to express their outrage and vehemently deny the incidents of violence but in reality they are frantically trying to the keep the lid on the bigger picture/story because they mistakenly think the church will be damaged by the truth coming out. But this pot has come to the boil. That lid is never going back down and airing the truth is the only hope Scientology has.

    Haydn James
    ————————————————————

  28. Before tomorrow’s show there is a discussion (just came across it this eve before the show aired) on a podcast that might possibly be of some interest/benefit in following this report that Anderson Cooper is doing. If you want to check it out go to: http://www.tragedyandhope.com/ Look for the Peace Revolution podcast in the center column. It will probably be showing episode #4 but on the player you can scroll down to episode #1 and I would suggest moving to 25:00 and start listening there. What is discussed in the next 8 – 10 minutes IMO has relevance to watching Anderson’s report.

  29. Marty, you did an amazing job as usual and being very very honest about all the questions Anderson was asking you.
    Beside the fact that all those DM guys, looked really terrible and angry, especially Norman S and that woman (Jenny I believe). While Anderson was asking a simple question from the other woman in front, Jenny did allow the other woman to answer the question, just cut Anderson’s comm and told him “you are rude”!

    Anderson was pretty much in shocked but kept his calm and allowed her be.
    What kind of a “Religious” representative would behave this way?

    Shame on DM.
    Once this week of investigation is over, we will all see more Independent Scientologists joining us!!!!!!!!!! 🙂
    DM will die a lonely man! 🙂

  30. Correction:
    I meant to say that Jenny did NOT allow the other woman to answer.

  31. A dead Agent response to “Marty had done numerous violences over a three year period” might be..If the Church senior management, DM, truly followed the Church policy of no violence, the very first time Marty did one, the receiver or a witness would have gotten that information to his boss, DM, and DM would have immediately handled him. Imagine if an auditor reached over the auditing table and smacked a PC! Would this guy get handled or what? And secondly, adding to Tone 40 above, Norman is really between a rock and a hard place, if he doesn’t back up DM he is out! He’s an older guy, no money, no friends or most likely family on the outside and we all know you don’t get the data that there is a support lifeline outside. What’s he going to do? He’s a lost soul!

  32. And I thought you said Chiquita didn’t fetch. lol

  33. Good points Veritas.

    It’s funny on point 3) above you make about them saying that Marty can never be a Scientologist ever again. (meaning future lives). This is bizzare and probably done because they want to scare others who are thinking of allying themselves with Marty that “their future is at stake.” (veiled threat)

    The other point on this is that some people were part of an Invader force or “blew up planets”, but THEY can be Scientologists. It is just if you are a whistleblower or what they like to say, an “Apostate”, THEN you can NEVER be a Scientologist again. Blowup planets?? Sure, no problem…

    Point out crimes of ours?? You will burn in HELL!!!!

    🙂
    Alex

  34. veritas: Ray is Norman’s brother who’s on the ship. Thank you though, as I was sitting here tonight trying to remember his name. I actually did Reg drills with Ray. They were a bit grueling though in my estimation. ~

  35. Virgil Samms

    My God, the church had the audacity to bring in Jennifer DeVoct and say there is no history of violence. Then she gets near violent with Anderson Cooper! It was really stupid of the Church to bring those people in on such sho
    She is the definition of violence. I am going to tell AC to ask her about her mission to PAC in 1997. Alot of vitnesses there to her violence.

  36. martyrathbun09

    FLUR, You didn’t see her bring it back, did you?

  37. becomingAware

    I loved the pictures of the little man. He always managed by intimidation and was proud of being able to cause fear in people.

    That is the tone that comes across to me from his ‘representatives’, Fear.

    Norman Starkey – what a fall from what he was. It is sad that there isn’t enough left for him to see it and claw his way back up.

  38. Independants – 1
    Scn. Management – 0

    Anderson Cooper very good TR’s, confronts confortably and excellent composure, most professional.

    Marty, open and direct a bit too honest, likeable.

    Scn. Mngt. too defensive, poor fellows.

    Have the ladies and Norm done a Pro TR’s course? Flunk, as Executives they should have set the highest standards of comm. Start or retread Pro TR’s course.

    Yeah, I know its an eval/inval. Tough s

  39. Good points Gandhi guy.

    I thought a similar thing. If their argument is that Marty was doing the hitting all by himself, why didn’t THEY STOP HIM and CALL THE POLICE right away??

    If they didn’t, then it PROVES that they HIDE VIOLENCE. IF they hid Marty’s abuses then it would stand to reason that THEY WOULD ALSO HIDE DM’s!!

    Alex

  40. I recall years and years ago watching Heber on a talk show with the president of the APA. The APA guy was being, well, the pres of the APA and he asked Heber if he could go exterior. Heber smiled warmly and said ‘Sure, want to see it again?’

    Comparing that easy, idle, free needle of Heber then, to the tight, sticky, dirty needle of those speaking for DM today is shows quite a difference.

    There is a point where stupidity crosses over into treason. These people have crossed that line and with no position from which to look personally, they don’t see. What they say isn’t based on perception since they aren’t there to perceive. So much so, it’s obvious to most who will watch this program. Contrary to Norman Starkey’s pronunciamento on forever barred from Scientology, these poor deluded beings will eventually have to walk that road back and find out that they are and then be able to view life as it is again.

    We can only hope DM will play it Saturday night in Massacre Canyon Inn as another triumph of his will.

  41. Marty,

    I wanted to say too that you did a wonderful job. You come across as natural and sincere.

    I can see from this and the other interviews that you were a real asset to the Church; it’s a shame that Miscavige has turned out to be a no-responsibility case coward who can’t confront and own up to his own out-ethics.

    Any decent human being — letalone Scientologist — would come to terms with their abuses, their lies and their covering up of the hollywood sham that they’ve dishonestly described as “explosive expansion”.

  42. Redneck Thetan

    The end with the ex-wives completely blew any credibility that Tommy may have delusions of creating with that stack of affidavits on the table. They claim to go in and agree to a no-conditions interview and then call Anderson rude for holding them to it? Not a good idea. Marty, I know it had to be painful to see on many levels, but you have to feel some vindication and relief, in a sense. At least I hope so.

    I thought one of the most interesting things was that Anderson pretty much broke the fourth wall to tell DM that the door’s still open for him to sit down for an interview. If they’re already trotting out brand-new interviewees at the last minute on night one, it could get really interesting by the end of the week.

    Just send out a lot of energy that there isn’t major breaking news this week. If this had been scheduled for last week, health care would’ve probably gotten it rescheduled.

  43. ” Imagine if an auditor reached over the auditing table and smacked a PC! ”

    Ouch, on that conceptual understanding! LOL

  44. Veritas, this is the first time I’ve ever seen a TV journalist reporting on the church apply enough intelligence to make that distinction, and to make it clearly. Anderson should be highly commended for that!

  45. Alex,
    Speaking of hot seats, I could have sworn I saw some pants on fire! Maybe that’s why they were squirming in their chairs.

  46. That’s a very good pont, Lunamoth. I agree — that’s where it starts; the violence is just a further extreme along the same line, justified by the mindset Linson displayed.

  47. Not only that, but AC swims with great white sharks. Anybody see him on 60 Minutes this past week?

  48. Jim,

    ” There is a point where stupidity crosses over into treason….. ”

    Man, that’s so well stated.

  49. My only disappointment with Anderson was that he didn’t get his follow-up question to Anne Rathbun answered. He Q’d & A’d with Jenny Linson butting in – she apparently could see that Anne had become a “deer in the headlights,” but it really backfired as she herself came off bad.

    Also, I wouldn’t doubt that it was Anderson’s deliberate choice to show some of the most sinister looking pictures of DM. In any case, it proves how blind DM and his crew are, to have ever allowed such pictures to be published ANYWHERE!

    I’m looking forward to seeing enough people backing up Marty and Mike that it will be obvious that they’re not ALL lying.

  50. Correction, Dragonfly, Norman’s brother’s name is Owen. Married to Nan Starkey. One of them, I think Nan, passed away several years ago.

  51. And don’t forget that her dad is Art Linson who was producer on “The Untouchables.” Remember the baseball bat scene? Take the bat out of Al Capone’s hands and you have a typical meeting with DM. I’m not exaggerating.

  52. Great, Haydn! I hope you sent it to him.

  53. Starkey equates DM with being the “Pope” of Scientology. Creates a convenient moral code to follow. The pope is not to be questioned by his subordinates under any circumstances, and is to be supported utterly and completely.

    Jenny had the worst presentation – acting offended over legitimate questioning by Cooper was very transparent as to its falsity.

  54. I would have love to have seen that talk show with Heber and the APA, Jim. It sounds great.

    Heber really did exemplify what we all hoped for in a spokesman and representative of Scientology.

    It would be great to have that remarkable spirit back with us again.

    I hope he is ok and makes his way out of the house of horrors. I sure wish I could do something to help him.

  55. Good ponts. When Anderson was with the crew of C of M liers, he was the one who demonstrated composure and good TR’s. The execs from Int, who should represent Scn and exemplify a high standard of communication, did anything but.

  56. Excellent point!

  57. For your amusement go back over the several video interviews with Tommy and watch his eyes closely. Darting back and forth in some cases like a dirty needle! Check out SOS on eye characteristics of 1.1

  58. How true, Jim. They are only perceiving the insides of their own skulls and trying to keep track of all the lies bouncing around in them!

    And also a great point about Heber. What a difference! That answer of Heber’s is such a classic.

  59. Just remember, all of that crap you saw is for *internal PR* to the Co$ Membership. Trying to keep the marks from leaving the tent – with their caseh, as it were.

    DM could hardly care less what a bunch of “wogs” think about him.

    Michael A. Hobson

  60. Awesome Post Marty. Excellent, excellent.

    Here’s a big-fat lie. NOT EVERYBODY PUTS THEIR PANTS ON ONE LEG AT A TIME.

    Oh no! Not DM, that magic piece of sh!t.

    For years, I called Anderson Cooper/ Anderson Stupid; As he just dished it all out half unconscious. Well, I’m sorry about that now… I didn’t expect him to “wake-up”. Oh, I have many others; Wolly-World for Wal-Mart; And Crappy-Tire for a local National Retailer selling lots of junk, polluting our dump-sites, better known as Canadian Tire.

    The point I’m saying is; The News is a Changing. It’s not a Court Room.

    It’s evolving. It has to keep up with Modern times. The next generation. Kids are never easily fooled, not these days….
    Just the facts, and Solid Truths.

    If Reporters were made to be Doctrine in the Laws, as part of their Degree. (If only Law was part of the fabric of Schooling from Junior High
    up?)
    I still think they come far short from that reality, from an IDEAL, but slowly, it has to happen.

    And if it happens, we find the Truths of LRH, that we move forward, with out stop, and operate more Fabian. Three feet back of “Society’s Head”.

    It was NEVER per LRH. An abberated… abracadabra puff! All of a sudden: “mainstream” Religion.

    ‘Anonymous’ made a huge contribution to this argument a couple threads back (scroll 8o % down) Very much worth the read:
    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/scientology/

    Nothing would of stopped Scientology IF it was sent down the Proper Road. That Road painted or drew, ultimately Directed by LRH.

    I got His vision more then two decades ago, with nothing more then SSII and lots of Lectures; Particularly the ‘How To Present Scientology To The World’ series. “At no time will [Scientology] make broad inroads into society” to paraphrase.
    “don’t even try” He said.

    It is too difficult to understand Scientology.

    What kind of fool would try to “lay that egg”? Something that takes half your life-time to figure out; DM is going to “explain” or appeal to everyone?? What a nut job!!

    My opinion of LRH’s vision is stupid simple:

    A) Have a Central Org near Main Street, an island of sanity. If deemed necessary, have a CC. Keep it clean, STANDARD.

    B)Move out with Missions. Put them where they Count. (This is debatable; but where they count most, is in the bad-est areas, in the worst areas.) ((Go to the deep West, most Cities seem to have worst crimes and greatest need of Help in the west-end. They are usually the oldest part of town. That will keep Orgs inline on countless fronts)). Auditor keeps on Flubbing, might be sent “west”. Always welcomed back. However, that’s not the point.

    Take this Mission in perspective. This is a bizzy place. On one hand, you got a Bum past-out between the entrance doors, on the other, A room full discovering their Bank! For real. You put an SO member on that Stage. He wouldn’t want to do it again. But he’ll doo a bang-up-job.
    So the “dums” and gang-members Change conditions. And their Parents take note. That’s our PUBLIC. And should be moved very fast through those lines… The thing is.

    If the Goal is Responsibility. The MODERN SCIENCE of Mental Health. Which never goes out of style. Has to go to the common denominator of all of us. Your lowest man.

    Oh, but the Psychs. hate us for practicing Mental Health. That is what OSA if for, and with thousands coming up through these lines, these Missions. Speaking like dynamite! It’s game over for them.

    C) Three-feet-back. What Int Base was truly founded for…
    Not a Gov’t would be safe. Not a Group could we not reach, expose, and know. POTENTIALLY.
    The MO and Stable Datum; ‘Leave us alone, we will leave you alone.’
    (Books and tapes…just enough for saturation…no more/no less. With the advent of the internet: FREE)
    Hammering HARD on injustice; Supporting freely anyone in Ethical Business via WISE and particularly, any 3dynamic group ALREADY involved in our aims on all 8 Dynamics.

    D) A World with out (much) Government; with out Crime; With out Insanity…etc.

    END

    The is nothing stopping us, from moving in.

    It will be an Independent Field from here on out.

    Even if we recover from this ‘Outing-out DM’.

    The Independent Field will be ALWAYS be Free Free to work. And work I hope You will.

    I am hell bent, myself, on handling the Indian Reservations of Canada. (A tall Order) But think, they have the most power, frankly.

    Take your Zone. And do good.

    Meet you at the Top.

  61. “The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and light no longer flow into our souls.”
    ~~Elizabeth Cady Stanton

  62. because,
    LRH made the observation in a Flag Order. We can see it with the show’s guests from Int. Lying is stupidity (Scn Axioms). Treason is betrayal. “Perverts, suppressives and critical, snide, ruthless, arrogant or contemptuous personalities are always out of valence. A person who is in treason on the 1st dynamic is always out of valence.” HCOB 2 Aug 69.

    I’d say there was some snide, ruthless, arrogant contempt apparent in a couple of the guests. They certainly have gone past mere lying=stupidity.

  63. Having read all the comments and watched the program again, but without all the commercials and other stories I have a few thoughts:

    1. Jennifer Linson had to be specifically chosen and instructed to be in the front and attack Anderson Cooper or the questions, whenever it was percieved that another wife was getting caught in their lies. That is why she jumped in when Anne stumbled. She has been a DM henchman for years and I am sure she won brownie points with DM for acting so “tough”.

    2. Ditto for Norman Starkey. Act outraged and make it clear to any Scientologists listening or watching that if they listen to Marty, they too will be “defrocked” (what a silly word!) and never be in Scientology again, as if being in the official Church prevents one from applying LRH’s tech!

    3. The other wives look like being on TV was the LAST place in the world they wanted to be.

    DM’s purpose in fighting these stories was to try and scare those wavering people in the Church who might want to leave, not try to convince Anderson Cooper and the world that he was non-violent.

  64. Marty you did a great job! You looked so calm & collected. The way you related the beatings of Mike (yikes) was really believable.

    This whole story about saying Marty was the only one beating others really gets my blood boiling. Don’t they realize how bad this makes the Church look! Not only from a non-Scientologist’s standpoint but also from a Scientologist’s standpoint.

    We are told/believe/promote ourselves as “the most ethical group on the planet, we have the best admin tech, we’re the only ones that can DETECT & SHATTER suppression, we’re the only hope for this planet”.

    It has been established that violence has been going on.

    The question is WHY was it allowed to go on?

    Either DM ordered it, knew & allowed it or didn’t know & in that case this would show a total lack of competence.

    No matter how I look at it, IT’S SHOWS A TOTAL FAILURE IN MANAGEMENT!!!!!!

    Marty I believe you.

    I believe, Mike, Tom, Amy, Jeff, Mark, …. The beatings, the punishments, the degradation. I just can’t get my wits around how was this allowed to happen, not once but repeatedly & for so long. The last place I would have expected something like that to happened would be in a Scientology Organization. Something is serioulsy wrong. I feel like my religion has been hijacked.

    On a lighter note, a bunch of us ex-koolaid drinkers are having a CNN BBQ party on Saturday. We’ll have a special toast for you Marty & all the Independants!

  65. Holy crap!! I can barely understand my own writing!

    WTF.

    Time to go straight up on line.

  66. Can I add this;

    Starkey; Poor Norm. If anyone looks Lied to. if he had any idea what was going on around him…

    Black and blank, his mind is missing.

    Breaks my Heart.

  67. Well. Anyone who was in the S.O. with Jenny Linson knows anyway knows how sadistic and abusive she was. I always knew one day it would catch up with her. But to prop her up on Anderson Cooper’s show with his millions of loyal fans tuned in, and watch her ser fac on him and try to introvert him and shut him up, was a huge disservice to the Church PRwise in the remaining series. Doesn’t she even get it the guy is a star and has his own show because he has millions of followers and fans? Sorry, what happened to Starky? He came off like a royal queen! But Jenny, she really did it in for this series. She couldn’t restrain herself from an invitation to be abusive. What a comedy! You looked real good against the backdrop of that Marty. When you called Anderson Anderson, your ARC was heating up the livingroom over here! I’ve been a fan of Anderson’s for a long time. He is always treated with the greatest respect and has millions of viewers, He’s got the ratings and really does a great job communicating. That was a royal screw up on Linson’s part. She obviously didn’t have a clue about these sorts of dynamics. She needs to find out where she is. It isn’t at a staff meeting and she isn’t Anderson’s senior.

  68. CNN VIDEO of the show Part 1 tonight

    Thank you for speaking out.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2010/03/29/ac.scientology.pt1.cnn.html

  69. Absolutely great job Marty and 3 cheers also for you, Anderson! You are both “The Man!”

    I agree the Co$ stooges did not come across well, but that’s as it should be. They know in their hearts they are wrong. Except maybe Starkey. Does he know anymore? His performance gives the lie to their claim there is “No disconnection.” He seems like the very spirit of vengeful disconnection.

    It occurs to me, the Co$ provides several fertile areas for future investigative stories; one series could be about the off-policy “donations campaigns” and where has that money been going?

    But for now, I can hardly wait for the next installment of this series….

  70. Theo sismanides

    Haven’t watched the video yet but I can say this: Marty you have managed to put the pressure on C of M. Never before has this happened. This series should be called Desperate Ex-Wives from what I am reading here and the C of M is starring in it! thanks for the LRH quote and for Keeping Scientology Exiisting.

  71. Owen and his wife were posted in ANZO for a short while as Freewinds reps. They came to Brisbane where Owen gave a briefing. This was somewhere between 2002 & 2005. His wife was his personal assistant and did all the organizing of everything for Owen. I liked them both very much.

    They left Australia as quickly as they arrived and were transferred to New York (I think) after just a few weeks.

  72. Tommy’s “bad” body language shows his discomfort with the lies he has to tell. Would the people complaining about it prefer he be suave and confident while lying?

    Paul

  73. “I am utterly appalled at the blatant lies that Jenny Linson and Norman Starkey are willing to make on camera”

    At what point in the above video is that part? It’s not in the above video Marty linked to. I’ve watched it 4 times.

    What did I miss?

  74. Ok. my mistake, forget that question. You must have seen the whole video on tv.

  75. Watched AC Blog’s version. It’s short.
    Then watched 10 minutes version on YouTube.

    (poor quality, unfortunately)
    Is that what you folks watched on TV?
    I expected it to be longer…

    Anyway, great start!

    Read all the post above and agree with everyone saying that reps of CoS looked bad and weird.

    Mr. Rathbun,
    You’ve been consistent with all previous exposures and statements. Godspeed to you!
    I’m sure you are well beyond the point of needing praise so words of keeping it up don’t need to be heard.
    You are doing what you can, should and must do. And it’s simply great you are out there doing what you are doing and saying what you are saying!

    Viewing this video independently of prejudices about Church AND Scientology’s teachings I could see that Anderson looked MORE of “what Scientologist should be” than those he interviewed from CoS.
    It’s strange but can be explained as – he and you guys aren’t playing roles, having agenda or digging for more evidences but just being you and saying what you know while Anderson asks what he doesn’t know.

    I’m sure any person with unblinded eye can see that, too.

    About your ex-wife, I think she has some Love in her heart for you. She stumbled to accuse you of “constant violence”.
    Funny how Linson “tagged her” by rudely intruding into Anne’s comm line with Anderson and insulted him with “you are rude and insulting” (so easily came out of her mouth – without even thinking of how it comes across to viewers). Did you notice Anderson’s face upon hearing that?

    Anyway, more power to you, to this blog, to bringing home the truth into hard-line scientologists’ heads.
    The more people post here (on this and such blogs) the more everybody wins (even those still “trapped in the closet”)

    P.S.
    Hopefully, there will be a program where you guys will have face-to-face interviews with DM “The Pope” and his “tag team”.
    I’m positive you will stand tall and those guys and gals will just make more fun of themselves in the eyes of general public as well as in the eyes of drinkers of their “special and exclusive” Kool-Aid. 🙂

  76. It was sent Tone 41.

  77. That woman, Linson; I remember seeing her at Flag . I believe she was with CMO. I actually remember her smiling back then (mid 90’s).

  78. link above only seems to be pre-recorded bit. Is there a link to the whole program?

    Well done to all contributors, it’s pretty clear cut who is and isn’t lying here.

  79. I could only get a 6 min video, does anybody know how to get the full version of it?

  80. The way that Sergeant Linson gave a dressing down to Private Cooper was classic.

  81. Would have loved to have seen the show, but from the videos, I see no Starky or anyone else. just Marty, Anderson, and Tommy Davus. What videos are you people watching?

  82. Come on people, please post links. I have no idea what you’re referring to, and I’ve been all over CNN’s web site. Links, links, links….

  83. Jenny Linson, is Tom Devocht’s ex-wife. She is one of DM”s #1 brown nosers, and held various posts including Commanding Officer of the Commodores Messenger Org in Clearwater, and Watchdog Committee member, etc.

  84. Would like to add couple words about statement of Norman Starkey about Marty.
    He said Mary Rathbun will never ever be a Scientologist.
    Sounds like saying he will end up in hell for Christians.
    Brings to a thought that most of humans NEED and WANT to have hope for eternity or for heaven.
    Such N/W can and is used heavily in faiths and religions to “bring person to senses” while actually making him toe the line.
    That’s sick!

    “God will punish you!” and “We removed your eternity!” to me are the things of the same character.

    On the other side, Church sets itself forth as THE issuer of Indulgences for sinners.

    Now, that brings me to questions like:
    “WHO can sell me my eternity there in CoS??? – Can I get it wholesale at a good discount?
    Who is the judge of my sins?
    How much is the Freedom these days?

    Vadim Dolgov

  85. Interestingly, this show was played 3 times last night…7pm, 8pm and 10pm. Hmmm…

    My conclusion…what we saw in the staffers doing DM’s bidding was a product of spiritual cannibalism. Anyone who’s been in Scn long enough understands indicators and develops a “sixth-sense” when it comes to reading the heart of others, I think. And no ones heart was pumping joy.

    I think the inner “blowback” from the spiritual conflict each time a lie is so publicly stated will become too much for some of them. Eventually, I bet each of us who have left either staff or moved on from Scn completely, all reached that breaking point and someway figure out a way to leave the physical turmoil behind to go off and heal the inner turmoil. And this is what will happen.

    I don’t know any of these guys and gals, but my hunch is there exists a huge empathy amongst recovered and renewed folks in this Indie Scn community, that nothing but a hand of help, comfort and support would be extended to anyone of them once and if they individually reach that tipping point of “I’m not doing this anymore”. It cannot help but happen at some point in time. One cannot be cannibalized upon forever.

  86. These people from Int are so mean! There’s no getting in comm with these people; they’re seething, they’re consumed by a very thinly veiled murderous rage. Is that what the atmospher at Int was like? It seems to me that even five minutes exposure to such people would be incredibly enturbulative. I can’t imagine living day in and day out in such a dangerous, bank driven atmosphere. After all I’ve read about the horrors at Int, I never really duplicated how it must have felt until tonight, seeing these maniacs with such hatred. They have such total lack of any compassion or understanding, and such a total belief in their own righteousness, and total agreement with each other that this dramatization of evil purposes is somehow “Scientology”.
    They all have their own personal way of expressing this, of course; Norm Starkey comes accross as priest from the inquisition, Ms. Linson is a bitter ball breaking bitch, Kathy Rinder is just chomping at the bit to jump out of her chair and rip someon’s face off. I don’t know about Guillaume; he looks like a corpse. And Tommy Davis with his expensive suit and his perfect hair comes accross as a sleezy Mafia lawyer.
    Well, I have to congratulate you guys from Int, making it out of that hell hole alive. And Marty, my respect for you increased even more. That you somehow retained enough of yourself and your integrity to get out of that place, is a miracle in itself. To then keep on movin’ on up, helping others and doing what you’re doing leaves me rather speachless.
    To all you guys who survived and are still with us, my deepest thanks.

  87. HMMM, the only “attacking” I saw last night was from the SO wife on the preview section, looked like M-W/H phenonema to me. and a little bpc from current members. Tommy really needs to do TRs the “old” “hard” way and a refresher on the Manners reference would be good too, for the Church’s PR sake.
    Marty and Anderson, nice job, Cof S, ethics and cramming, looks like more lost tech is surfacing.

  88. From “What is Greatness”

    “We can at least understand the one fact that greatness does not stem from savage wars or being known. It stems from being true to one’s own decency, from going on helping others whatever they do or think or say and despite all savage acts against one; to persevere without changing one’s basic attitude toward man.

    True greatness depends on total wisdom. They act as they do because they are what they are — trapped beings, crushed beneath an intolerable burden. And if they have gone mad for it and command the devastation of whole nations in errors of explanation, still one can understand why and can understand as well the extent of their madness. Why should one change and begin to hate just because others have lost themselves and their own destinies are too cruel for them to face? …..

    When cruelty in the name of discipline dominates a race, that race has been taught to hate. And that race is doomed.

    The real lesson is to learn to love.

    He who would walk scatheless through his days must learn this.

    Never use what is done to one as a basis for hatred. Never desire revenge.

    It requires real strength to love man. And to love him despite all invitations to do otherwise, all provocations and all reasons why one should not.

    Happiness and strength endure only in the absence of hate. To hate alone is the road to disaster. To love is the road to strength. To love in spite of all is the secret of greatness. And may very well be the greatest secret in this universe. ”
    – LRH

    I’d just like to acknowledge the greatness in you, Marty.

    One day we can all sit back and laugh about this.
    Anne, Tommy and all….

  89. Part A

    Part B

    Part C

    Part D

  90. Well, friends, that was a good first quarter. Marty, Tom, Jeff, Mike – you did good!

    When I watch shows like this I don’t get too hot and bothered about who answered which question or didn’t or got cut off or who got to be on-screen longer than whom. As veteran TV watchers, most of us realize these interviews are cut and spliced and shuffled like a deck of cards at a Vegas blackjack table.

    CNN (by which I mean Cooper, the producers, CNN’s lawyers, etc.) aren’t aiming to produce an interrupted videotaped deposition from which testimony can be excerpted and recited by counsel in a court of law. They are creating a video / audio / musical / graphical impression that will (1) publish some version of the truth, (2) attract viewers by pushing buttons, (3) attract and retain advertisers and (4) not get CNN sued. That’s a lot of necessary criteria to meet. Tonight’s goal was: Get people to tune in Tuesday night.

    As a side note, I thought the graphics communicated especially well. That violently red / gold / lava-like background of the title slide, repeated throughout the program, communicates CNN’s editorial POV sufficiently: The CoS is hot, violent, scary place to be. It is not safe.

    I’m also reminded this morning of the old Frost/Nixon tapes and the more recent play and movie made about those events. No one remembers all of Frost’s questions and all of Nixon’s replies, homilies and dev-t responses. What we remember were those scenes where we saw Nixon’s mask dissolve and Nixon the being peering through as he recounted those last nights in the White House. That was when we saw the truth that he, even he, finally confronted. And that is what we remember from all those hours of tape. All those hours led us to that single truth.

    Folks, we are watching truth distilled into a story that must be told and will be remembered. Some call it “sound bites” or “the moral of the story”. Others who have lived through its horrors may call it “oversimplification” or “only the tip of the iceberg.” Those still inside the CoS will see it as “fabrication” or a “slur” or “gotcha journalism.” I choose to see this as the slow, inexorable drumbeat of freedom that human beings will not be denied.

    You don’t have to be a Scientologist or an ex-Scientologist to care about this story and to want to hear every last word of it. Here at this and other blogs and in our private conversations, I feel we are not auditing only the third dynamic of Scientology. We are auditing the fourth and seventh dynamics of all human beings who are willing to look at this church and what it became. This story is actually about much more than Scientology – it is about the unkillable human need to be free and to secure freedom for their loved ones.

    Once again – Marty, Tom, Jeff, Mike and those to come – you did good!

    Thank you,

    Just Me

  91. I concur — it was perfectly staged. Linson jumps in at the slightest provocation and acts offended and slams whomever …

    ACs slightly raised eyebrow was absolutely PERFECT. I doubt it was missed on many.

    And this morning I’m greeted by HEADLINES on CNN.COM about Scientology Abuse.

    Never forget that Linson, T. Davis, Feshbecks and several others have NEVER spent a day AS A SO member — rather they spend there lives WITHIN the SO as the privileged monied crowd. Propped up by their personal wealth and celebrity parents.

    It is not just those who have left the SO that are beneath contempt to them BUT those IN the SO as well as all of humanity.

    Linson for her part has lost any of the youthfulness and beauty she kinda had — granted it was 15 years ago that I last saw her — but she comes across as a tightly wound up woman who is severely in need of …

    WH

  92. Great interview. Marty you are really good to tell the truth to the world.
    Regarding the quote, then how I have to interpret the KRC triangle? As far as I experienced in the last decades and as far as I can tell looking at KSW, all Scientology is about is control.
    Looking into different and ancient “technologies” I begin to realise the lie behind this control. So please, anyone can tell, what Scientology is really about? I am seriously asking this.

  93. crashing upwards

    I recall from survey tech that those movements would indicate FEAR. Rightfully so in his situation. Lying their asses off and worrying about being caught at it. One lie leads to another, as the saying goes. They will get burnt.

  94. Beautifully spoken. Actually I’ve been thinking how – if we could – offer a place for those leaving, after years within the SO and NO money, NO friends outside could come and start to decompress.

    No everyone has a little stash of money from an inheritance and many of the old timers may no longer have parents.

    As we each heal and move beyond our pains, this uplifts the collective consciousness of those of us who are united by our scientology roots.

    Love,
    WH

  95. And last night, I had one of my sea org, scientology nightmares.

    A long discussion with the wife of someone I knew well back at CCLA — who wouldn’t budge an inch on forgiveness, kindness. Nothing. OR take any responsibility.

    It’s frustrating IN a dream.

    Living it at Int today or even in the lower rank and file is beyond comprehension.

    Talking to a stone wall as never been my idea of warmth.

    WH

  96. Marty, I know I’ve said it before but I am very
    proud to call you my friend. Love you, Sargio

  97. Joe,
    I wasn’t swimming last week?!

  98. crashing upwards

    Beebercat. Your so right. Living in that sort of atmosphere is uncomfortable in the least and enturbulative more than likely. Its like being surrounded by people “having a bad day”, not to mention the lies,lies,lies.

    I never fully understood the “jonestown” syndrome or whatever you call it when people blindly follow. I didnt know what Jim Jones’s temple was all about. So it was a unreal to me. But i do know Scientology and what use to be the atmosphere and dynamics of being on staff and involved. And its clear that Scientology has devolved into a dark and blind place and its a bit scary to think what such a state can foster. I saw a glimpse of it last night. And its not pretty.

  99. Antoine,
    Great post dude. I’m in Canada and one of my best fishin’ buddies/fellow musician is Native. Send me an email.

  100. martyrathbun09

    Sarge, the feeling is mutual. Look forward to meeting up soon.

  101. Your tech awereness is very refreshing.

    The “stupidity crossing over to treason” became very clear to me with a very standardly done False Purpose Rundown.

    I kinda wonder when was the last time those Scn. Execs. got standard auditing. That just might justify their current behaviour.

  102. Overdriver,
    From a tape, 28 Dec 51, Chart of Attitudes:
    “We have two levels, then, in Dianetics. Actually, they should be differentiated by two names.
    This channel should probably be called something like Scientology (a new coined word); it
    probably should be. What is it? It is a route—the study of science or the study of truth or the
    study of knowledge—because it is “the study of”; it is not an -etic, meaning “science of.” And
    in bin three should be Dianetics.”

    “Regardless of what we use to compose our scientology, when we nail down these phenomena
    with tenpenny spikes, we have recovered data to the field of useful, relative truth. It is useful,
    relative truth: You can take an individual and do this and do that. You don’t just take one
    individual and do this and do that, you can take all individuals and do this and do that. Of
    course, sometimes you have to do something to the individual before you can do these things,
    but you will find the phenomena go on from individual to individual.”

    This tape, as well as several others, describes an analogy of ‘three bins’. In Bin Three are all of the relative truths we use in our living, in Bin One are the high level truths and new things to be discovered about life and living. Bin Two are the methods of discovery of the data in Bin One to bring it to Bin Three. A scientology is in Bin Two.

  103. She’s always had that beingness, which comes from being a child of Hollywood privilege where anyone who ever counters a thing you say is, by definition, “rude”.

    I’ve worked on many cycles – non-church – like this and the No. 1 thing is that if the guy at the top doesn’t show, your goose is cooked.

    Tiger Woods’ greatest mistake was hiding, because it inferred that he had something to hide. Miscavige is hiding, too (remember TD’s promise to front him for the SP Times reporters in November? What happened to that?).

    You can find your own LRH references on hiding.

    The walls are crumbling. People think revolutions succeed because of what happens on the outside. They don’t. They reflect implosions of the existing order.

    ps – Norman is certifiable with those bug eyes popping out of his head. How PTS does one need to be in order to overlook the harmful acts perpetrated upon him by Miscavige? Norman needs to word clear “Scientology” and “Church of Scientology”. His allegiance is to one, not necessarily the other.

  104. Marty you did an awesome job telling the truth. The other side did not tell the truth, was out of TRs, and their faces showed that.
    CNN report is shown all over the globe, thereby it is a good exposee of the crimes of DM against the world.

  105. That was about the most hilarious thing I’ve read in a while, WH.

    Perhaps Jenny’s annoying bossiness is merely a communication that she is severely in need of ….

  106. What that show reveals is the tone of communication from the church. It refelects Miscavige’s world view of attacks and SPs lurking behind every bush.

    If we look and don’t listen, we were treated to Indignant Protest.

    No light touch, no ARC, no theta, just attack dog.

    Tommy’s a clay demo; he could be moulded into anything, but look at what he’s become. Anger/Antago. Not a single comm that isn’t in this band. And who made him so?

  107. Using emasculated men and ex-wives as human sheilds? DM what a coward you are!

  108. Hymie, these were the South African variety, not the Nova Scotian variety, which are often mistaken for trout or salmon.

  109. Box their ears off for me!

  110. Excellent interview! Marty you gave specific instances of abuse; the one with the terrycloth bathrobe was exact with time, place, form and event. You were precise and to the point; who could make that stuff up with such details.

    Tommy is on this generic never happened they are liars is getting really old; how does he know he wasn’t there and looked very stupid. Norman it was very sad to look at him defending the “Pope”. Ann acted like she really did not want to be there, she let Jenny take over to avoid screwing it up. I am sure kudos are going around to them this morning about the attacks on you and Anderson Cooper but they really looked like idiots.

    I look forward to tonights episode; you rocked!

    VVWD!
    Love, Jan

  111. Norm Starkey’s reference to dm as “the Pope” of scientology was priceless. Apparently that positioning was decided upon as a good idea
    BEFORE the latest and current pedophile scandal was big news, before it came to the world’s awareness that the real Pope had been responsible for covering up the sexual abuse by other priests of scores of deaf boys years ago…

    Oh, my, davey, what bad timing on your part to create that particular relationship in the minds of the public.

  112. Dear Marty

    Great that the truth finally find the way to the light.

    See the CommEv recommendations 1984:

    OTC WW
    UK Conditions Order Nr. 1
    28 May 1984

    COMMITTEE OF EVIDENCE
    FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
    INTERESTED PARTY: DAVID MISCAVIGE
    [This is a back translation of the German Issue. The original is lost so far.]
    We, the Committee met together on 5th May 1984 and verified all data and evidence regarding the charges of the Bill of Particulars which were given to us from people all over the planet. The following are our findings:
    Note: The Interested Party missed to attend the meeting on 5th May as well as all other meetings which were convened by the Committee. Further, the Committee did not receive any material of evidence to the favour of the Interested Party.
    Refusal or failure to attend by the Interested Party results in the recommendation of the highest possible penalty of the concerned Interested Party.
    FINDINGS:
    HIGH CRIMES
    1. Mutiny: Guilty
    Definition:
     Refusing work or persuading others not to work or refusing duty is a crime called mutiny – Admin Dictionary
     Revolt and often forceful resistance against a constructive authority – New World Dictionary
     Open revolt against constructive authority
    Evidence by John Nelson, (ex-CO CMO Int. Dec. 81 – 82) shows that David Mis-cavige, at that time Chairman of the All Clear Unit, falsified in June 1981 a letter from LRH to take Diana Voegeding (CO CMO INT) off post. She was at that time David Miscavige’s constitutional senior.

    2. Organizing a splinter group which takes and perverts Scientology materials or prac-tices, in whole or in part, still calling it Scientology or calling it something else: Guilty
    Definition:
     Splinter – a divergent group that breaks off from the main group.
     Dissent – refusal to keep up to rules and beliefs of the established church.
    On 1st January 1982, the “Religious Technology Center” (RTC) was registered as a company in California. David Miscavige together with additional 6 staff were the “company founders” and “trustees”. No LRH policy existed with this order and until today there is no official issue written by LRH in regards to RTC.
    From evidences which were given to the Committee we found that RTC is involved in many squirrel activities and perverted Scientology practices.

    A. Gang Sec-Checking: in October 1982, Jay Hurwitz the then T/ED LA Day, was taken to CMO Int.
    “On the first day as I arrived at Int, I received a Sec-Check in Nazi-Interrogation style which was delivered by the highest authorities of Scientology. While I was on the meter, 4 interrogators who were in the same room, bombarded me with questions. These were – David Miscavige – one of the three highest Managers who lead Scientology today, Steve Marlow – Executive Director of RTC, Marc Yaeger – CO CMO Int, Vicky Aznaran – D/Inspector Gen-eral.” Jay Hurwitz, 19.4.83
    In October 1982, at the San Francisco Mission Holder conference, Mission Holders were also illegally sec-checked. The Sea-Org publication “The Sea-Org takes over” includes a picture of three people who were sec-checked in the same room by Sea-Org Officers. Viola-tion of HCOB 30.11.78, “Confessional Procedure”.

    B. Declaration to Suppressive Person: The above mentioned Sea-Org Publication shows also a picture of David Miscavige who declared Mission Holder Martin Samuels. This was done right then and there and without convening a regular Committee of Evidence what would have been standard policy. (HCOB 16 May 1980 issue II, ETHICS SUPPRESSIVE ACTS, SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENTOLOGISTS) Later in the meeting one of the Sea Org Officers, Norman Starkey (also one of the RTC-trustees), says “He, (Brown McKee, another Mission-Holder who was declared) will never, never ever again, which I promise you, in any life, ever again receive any Auditing or ever have a chance to get out of his trap and those who are on OT III know what THAT means! It means to die and die and die and die again.! “SO ED 2104 Int.
    Kingsley Wimbush and Dean Stokes were also declared at the meeting.
    Jay Hurwitz explains: “ During my stay at Int I was told repeatedly by the highest offi-cers of the church that I would be hanged and excommunicated.” During this period was as well the idea implemented to legally pursue Scientologists (through RTC) – staff members and publics – as well as the policy of excommunication and the exclusion of OT levels and of any auditing and training for ever.” David Mayo, Letter of 8th Dec. 83.
    This action of the exclusion for ever or “excommunication” is in contradiction to LRH’s teachings:
    “It must be noted however that no matter how severe the case we never close the door entirely.” HCO PL 16 May 1980
    “ You must keep the door open only if it’s just a crack.” HCO PL 16 March 1971 is-sue II.
    Despite these policies RTC still keeps up the policy on “excommunication”.

    C. The “Running Program”: Many prior senior- and experienced church-executives in-cluding David Mayo, Kerry Gleason and Alan Buchanan were taken off post by David Miscavige and RTC and had to do the Running Program. This highly secure pilot-rundown was applied under the order of RTC and existed in that the PCs and OTs ran around a tree or pole until they were exhausted. Then they were requested to get up and run more often longer than 12 hours a day. As the result of these cruel programs the PCs suffered body injuries and impairments including sprained and swollen joints, strained muscles, physical exhaustion and loss of weight. This program of which they were told that was new LRH tech had to be done regardless of other case actions the PC was already on. This violates C/S Series 31, 38 and 42. For this program exists no HCOBs. Until now more than 300 people were sent to CMO Int, LA and Flag.

    3. Public statements against Scientology or Scientologists but not per Comm Ev’s duly convened: Guilty
    At the San Francisco Mission Holder meeting on 17th Oct 1982, David Miscavige and other Sea Org Officers including Steve Marlow, Norman Starkey and Marc Yaeger, made many despised comments about leading Mission Holders as for example “Kingsley (Wim-bush) is declared and actions were prepared to pursue him as a criminal. “These days of cor-ruptions are over. These squirrel days are over.”
    Three Mission Holders were verbally declared without Comm Ev.
    After Diana Voegeding was taken off her post as CO CMO Int, David Miscavige gave an open statement in which he insults her: “… As Gale (Irwin) and myself were degraded he came specially out, stood himself up on the stairs with these people around him and yelled at us that he would personally make sure that we ‘never ever anywhere get back onto the Bridge’ and that we ‘never had done anything constructive’ “. Diana Voegeding Tape De-brief, Dec 1983.

    4. Reporting or threatening to report Scientology or Scientologists to CI VII authori-ties in an effort to suppress Scientology or Scientologists from practicing or receiv-ing standard technology: Guilty
    As already per the quotation from the San Francisco Mission Holder Meeting under complaint #3 shows, David Miscavige threatened certain individuals with police persecution. Larry Heller, a church attorney, employee of RTC said also at the Conference:
    “If later one of you still uses any Scientology-Trademarks there will be reports of the offence to whatever criminal court it concerns because of unlawful business dealings with a possible sentence …. You will then get a fine or go to prison. “SO ED 2104.

    5. Receiving money, favours or encouragements to suppress scientology or scientolo-gists:
    The Committee has no reports in regards to this accusation.

    6. Pronouncing Scientologists guilty of the practice of standard Scientology, also pro-nouncing Scientologists guilty of the practice of the religion of Scientology.
    The Committee has no reports in regards to this accusation.

    7. Engaging in malicious rumour-mongering to destroy the authority or repute of higher officers or leading names of Scientology or to “safeguard” a position: Guilty
    David Miscavige and Steve Marlow took David Mayo (Snr C/S) and his staff mem-bers off their posts in August 1982. Shortly after this a black PR campaign was started to get the technical and personal reputation of David Mayo destroyed.
    “David Miscavige told me about a month after my removal that he would destroy my technical reputation in case I would not ‘turn around’ to their way of thinking as too many people regarded me as an opinion leader.” David Mayo, 8 Dec 1983.
    More technical investigations were conducted for this reason by Gelda Mithoff, Ray Mithoff and Mike Eldridge.
    In August 1983 SO ED 2344 Int was published by the church. “Story of a Squirrel” which David Mayo publicly dammed in that they called him a Squirrel and enemy agent.

    8. Spreading false tales to invalidate Clears: Guilty
    “Everyone who spreads around libellous comments and evil slender about the alleged behaviour of Clears should be declared as Suppressive Person from the first Ethic-Officer who hears about it. Investigations should look for a criminal background of person who spreads around such rumours.” LRH HCO PL 4. Aug 1966,.

    9. Spreading libellous and slanderous statements about the alleged behaviour of Clears: Guilty
    As covered at Charge # 8.

    10. Seeking to splinter off an area of Scientology and deny it properly constituted au-thority for personal profit, personal power, or to “save the organization from the higher officers of Scientology”: Guilty
    As in charge #2 explained, David Miscavige was one of the founders of the Religious Technology Center an organization that is not based on LRH policy. Miscavige placed his org on the top of the orgboards of the international church over the GO, ED Int, CMO Int and WDC. Charge # 2 gives evidence that they used Squirrel techniques to keep up their position.
    To place RTC on the top of the orgboards, Miscavige had to get rid of many Senior Church Executives who possibly could revert his orders and stop his destructive actions.
    In July 1981, Miscavige used falsified LRH Telexes and untrue letters of Church at-torneys to remove Mary Sue from her post as Controller. In June 1981 he removed his senior Diane Voegeding, CO CMO Int, with a falsified LRH message. In December 1981 he re-moved Gale Irwin from his post as CO CMO Int in that he claimed to execute LRH orders. In August 1982 Miscavige removed Senior C/S David Mayo from his post. There were many more such incidents.

    11. Wilful misapplication: Guilty
    Covered in charge #2.

    12. Bringing civil suit against Scientologists without first calling the matter to the atten-tion of Ethics Officer: Guilty
    Such procedures were exerted against Eddie Mace, Bernard Wimbush, Marian van der Linde, Don Hills and Lawrence West. Also covered in charge #3. See also crime #15.

    13. Organizing a splinter group to confuse people about the true beliefs and practices of Scientology or to deceive them into considering that they will be able to study part of all of Scientology or receive standard pastoral counselling from the splinter group: Guilty
    We showed that David Miscavige was a main founder of the Squirrel group RTC. The Motto of RTC which is stated on top of all of it’s publications is: “ Protecting the only road to total freedom – the Religion Scientology”.
    RTC Info Letter #3, 22 July 1983 states: “How did your case run on standard tech? You will find out and are certain in that you let your folder get send to the unit of RTC for Technical Inspection.”
    The purpose of RTC per Info Letter #1 is: “to make sure that services which are deliv-ered under the many marks and trade names in Scientology and Dianetics are 100% standard tech and that the Bridge stays clean, workable and reachable for all who want to become free.
    The above is an attempt to cheat the public of Scientology to the effect that it thinks it could get standard spiritual advice and training from RTC or from organizations under their control.

    CRIMES:
    1. Placing Scientology or Scientologists at risk: Guilty
    Per the Auditor magazine that was recently published by the Church, 25 hours coun-selling cost now 5016 English pounds. The average person and with that the majority of peo-ple on this planet can’t afford this and the Bridge is definitely outside their ability to reach.
    “By average pay is meant the average upper lower class or lower middle class pay scale.
    One week’s process (25 hours) should cost an average month’s pay.” (HCO PL 23 Sep 64)
    David Miscavige has set and enforced the current prices though RTC and the Int Fi-nance Police’s illegally finance policy. These policies violate the above quoted LRH policy.
    “It’s vital for a person who became clear to do the next necessary steps to go on OT I and get through until OT III. [Back translation, date of reference right now unknown.]
    Clears who did not yet get though OT III and public who haven’t yet started on the Bridge were put in danger because of the current church prices which were enforced by David Miscavige and RTC and could not be paid by the public.

    2. Following illegal orders or illegal policies or alter-is, knowing them to be different or contrary to those issued by the International Board: Guilty
    David Miscavige has failed to follow specific LRH policy in regards to prices and jus-tice. He was a main founder of RTC which isn’t based on any LRH policy and which replaces approved management structure. He permitted the squirrel Running Program and was himself involved in squirrel Gang Sec-Checking. (See High Crime charge #2)

    3. Not directly reporting flagrant departures from International Board Policy: Guilty
    See the above.

    4. Permitting a section, unit, department, organization, zone or division to collapse: Guilty
    As the result of actions by David Miscavige to get rid of the majority of church execu-tives and to put himself on top of the church organizing board, the Scientology Church col-lapses everywhere on the planet.
    Since RTC was founded in January 1982 several Missions were closed or split off (Riverside, Omaha, Perth, Stockton, St. Etienne, Hannover, Palo Alto, Helsingborg are all split off) and there were many Suppressive Person declares. This has never happened before in the history of the Church of Scientology. Despite of this, RTC asserts that the Church of Scientology is internationally expanding!

    5. Condoning circumstances or offences capable to bring a course, section, unit, de-partment, org, zone or division to a state of collapse: Guilty
    See previous charges.

    6. Neglect of responsibilities resulting in catastrophe: Guilty
    As covered in the previous charges.

    7. Being or becoming a Potential Trouble Source without reporting it or taking action: Guilty
    As covered above.

    8. Using Scientology harmfully: Guilty
    Covered in High Crime #2

    9. Using a local title to set aside the orders or policies of the International Board: Guilty
    As covered in previous charges.

    10. Instigating a local power push against a senior: Guilty
    As covered in High Crime #1

    11. Spreading destructive rumours about senior Scientologists: Guilty
    See High Crimes.

    12. Falsifying a communication from a higher authority: Guilty
    Covered under High Crime #1 whereby Miscavige falsifies a message from LRH to Diana Voegeding with which she was removed from her post as CO CMO Int.

    13. Causing severe and disreputable disturbances resulting in disrepute: Guilty
    At the Mission Holder Conference in San Francisco Oct 82, Miscavige put the man-agement of the Church of Scientology in bad repute in that he verbally and openly declared important Mission Holders, nattered about other important Mission Holders at that confer-ence, insulted them and threatened them with imprisonment. Various Mission Holder of that Conference are since dropped out from the church and opened up several independent groups. (For example Bent Corydon and Serge Gerbode).

    14. Holding Scientology materials or policies up to ridicule, contempt or scorn: Guilty
    Many HCOBs written by LRH with the help of David Mayo (during the time was David Senior C/S Int) are ridiculed and put out of force in SO ED 2344 Int “Story of a Squir-rel: David Mayo”.

    15. Condoning the suppression of the word “Scientology” in its use or practice: Guilty
    In September 1983 ordered RTC under direction of David Miscavige to take legal ac-tions against Lawrence West of California because of the use of the word Scientology in his Scientology-practice.
    “To communicate Scientology and to bring about a civilization for mankind.”
    The activity to take legal actions against Lawrence West is an act of the suppression of the word “Scientology”

    ADDITIONAL CHARGES:
    1. Forgery of Documents: Guilty
    As shown in High Crime #1, David Miscavige falsified a message from LRH to the then CO CMO INT Diana Voegeding.
    Based on additional evidence, which was handed over to the Committee, we have evi-dence that David Miscavige was an accomplice to the falsification of LRH’s signature on le-gal documents.
    Irmgard Wassard, graphologist and member of the Danish Graphological Society, was presented with two original signatures of LRH, one written 1970 the other beginning of the seventies and two signatures which were done on the so called LRH/RTC agreement.
    After thorough examination of all four signatures she explains:
    a) that the two signatures (1982) were done by the same person and
    b) that the person is not identical with the person (LRH) who signed with his name on the attachment marked H (1971 and 1970thies) since the questionable signa-tures show a variety of differences of the authentic writing which is typical for forgeries.

    2. Forgery: Guilty
    Diana Voegeding explains in a written and testified report, that David Miscavige, in exercising the activity as Californian Public Notary, received signatures signed L. Ron Hub-bard without that LRH appeared there. This is an offence against his status as Public Notary and is forgery per the Californian law.

    3. Violent Attack: Guilty
    During the investigations, three involved persons were violently attacked by David Miscavige in the presence of others – Steve Marlow included. The attacked were John Aczel, Roger Barnes and Steve Warren. Marlow held on to them and Miscavige punched. Aczel ended up with a laceration and bruise on the temple and Barnes had a swollen lip. Warren escaped the hold of Marlow and did not get hit though his clothes were torn in the fighting. Aczel said that Miscavige had told him he would like to cut him in 1000 pieces and dump him at the local hospital. It was ACTUALLY spat at the above.” Jay Hurwitz, 19 April 1983.
    The committee has also evidence of other criminal assaults.

    RECOMMENDATIONS
    References:
    HCO PL 4 Aug 66 ETHICS, CLEARS INVALIDATION OF
    HCO PL 16 May 1980 II ETHICS SUPPRESSIVE ACTS SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENTOLOGISTS
    HCO PL 29 Apr 1965 II ETHICS, REVIEW
    HCO PL 7 Sep 1963 COMMITTEE OF EVIDENCE

    We, the Committee of Evidence recommend that David Miscavige of Los Angeles, California, should

    1. be declared as Suppressive Person for activities that intend to suppress Scientology and Scientologists.
    2. be assigned a condition of treason toward Scientology and Scientologists.

    Respectfully submitted by:

    Chairman, Vincent Barnes
    Secretary, Joyce Barnes
    Member: Ron Lowley

    Member: Mel Smith

    Endorsed by:
    Capt. W. B. Robertson
    Convening Authority,
    Chairman OT Committee WW

  113. “This is a bizzy place. On one hand, you got a Bum past-out between the entrance doors, on the other, A room full discovering their Bank!”

    This totally reminds me of the lady who ran the salon on the ship. Her husband had just died and someone had told her about Scientology. This very proper lady went to the SF org where she had to step over a bum to get in the door. What she got inside changed her life forever.

    In the pursuit of spiritual freedom one overcomes many obstacles (sometimes literally) in the path.

  114. WOW! Great post!

  115. By the way, it always comes up that there is no police report. Someday someone should make a note of why this is. It is against the rules to turn a Scientologist up to the police. That is why it is never done. I think it’s written in the ethics book. This would shed a ton of light on the situation. If you do report a crime or a person to the police I believe you can be declared. People must wonder WHY no body ever goes to the authorities. WHY they permit this abuse. There is a WHY. It is against the culture doctrine to reach for help outside of the Church and especially to go to the police for any help.

  116. I could just imagine Miscavige hiding in some locked room watching CNN and drinking a glass of scotch all pissed off that the woman and old men that he sent to lie for him were doing such a piss poor job. His inability to be responsible for the smallest of his crimes and his PATHETIC defense tactics are dragging the whole show down with him and its only picking up speed. The only one that DM is fooling is himself.

  117. For anyone who has truly understood the ARC triangle and read Science of Survival to gain an understanding of man relative to the tone scale, it is clear that those representing the church are diametrically opposed to the philosophy of Scientology.

    There was no increase in understanding with the church. In fact they got the opposite product…they created and ARC break on camera.

    Jim mentioned Heber’s earlier interview which clearly showed he had nothing to hide. I saw this in Marty’s as well.

    The church representatives show, fear and anger. And the photos of Miscavaige really captured the insanity he is dramatizing.

  118. Fellow Traveller

    Marty —

    Was that the same cool blue t-shirt you wore in the Times vidio interviews?

    The Church seems to be loosing a game of Whack-a-mole.

    So, the Church’s reponse to the SP Times series includes a Freedom Magazine artice: “The Bigotry Behind the Times’ Facade of Responsible Journalism”

    OK. Let’s just say they are entitled to that opinion. What will the response to CNN AC360? Just wondering.

    Now the article goes on to blast the Times:
    “In the most offensive gesture of all, the S.P. Times refused to accept an offer of an in-person interview with Mr. David Miscavige, the ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology religion.”

    For the sake of argument, just say that is true. Well, Mr Anderson reported in no uncertain terms that he made such an offer which was just flat out denied.
    Hmmm. The Times is guilty for not making the offer. CNN is guilty for making it.

    Now, I never heard anything from Marty that denigrated anything about Scientology. He had a specific target. The response included the generalities: He’s a liar. He’s an apostate. He did all the physical abuse. Hmmm. Is this supposed to be a form of not answering the question? Fill the vacuum? No proof of either generality. An affadavit is merely proof of what one uttered. Nothing more, really. So Marty did all the physical abuse over some indeterminate period and there was zip, zero, nada proof that it was addressed? The spouses say that they never saw any signs of abuse. They want it both ways — Miscaviage never abused, it was all Marty, but they were never there and their spouses never showed sighs of abuse nor mentioned it? ‘Scuse me. Did I miss something here?

    Oh. The Renaissance and expansion of Scientology. Say that were true. Wouldn’t the statistics from 2001 and 2008 begin to show statistically significant membership? And from the Leaving Scn blog the following really interesting observation: If there are millions of Scientologists, why is there so much trouble to get 10,00 of them at least on to the New OT 7 level. That is only 0 .5 percent, assuming *only* 2 million Scientologists.

    I with Marty, cool blue t-shirt and all.

    My 2 cents.

  119. Marty,

    It was good of you to admit your part in beating others. It shows you are a social personality in that you take responsibility for your actions.

    You would think that if DM was blameless, he would have shown up, faced Anderson eye to eye and told him that he never hit anyone. It would have been the best way for him to discredit any lies against him. The fact that he did not, says a lot, to me anyway.

    The fact that the CoM had people show up to confront Cooper in the first place shows that the public revelations by ex staff about the treatment is indeed having an affect on the stats. After all, why bother to show up if these allegations are nothing more than lies by disgruntled ex staff. It seems a desperate move on managements part.

    In the coming days and months ahead, I hope we can see more ex staff come forward to shed light on the truth.

    Still in shock,

    Centurion

  120. Has any of you seen any evidence of what TD said “the Church has doubled in size in the last 5 years” ?

    As of 6 months ago my local Org had shrunk or at best stayed the same in the last 5 years. Only a handful of students in the course room & several of them are staff. Which is good but doesn’t show expansion. OTC participation at its lows. Events attendance dwindling.

    I can say the same for ASHO & AOLA.
    I remember 8 years ago, we had a hard time fitting on stage for AOLA graduation with all the OT Levels completions. A year ago they had to do a “PAC base graduation” to fill the stage & that included lots of Basics completions. The comp board at AOLA by the book store was full then & you could barely put your name on it on a Tuesday night. 2 years ago, I’ve watched it a few weeks in the row & it had only a handful of names by Wednesday night. That’s very telling for me.

    In addition, ASHO course rooms were less “populated” than years ago even after they consolidated some of the course rooms to facilitated the Sups jobs.

    The more they keep asserting that there’s millions of Scientologgists & that we are expanding like crazy the more it introverts Scientologists actually in. They either think “what’s wrong with our area, I don’t see this” or they think “there’s no way that that is true. What else are they lying about????”

  121. Freedom Fighter

    Awesome job, Marty! Great reference, too. Very appropriate.

    Boy, I gotta tell you, watching Norm, Jenny, and Tommy “Absolutely Not” Davis last night reminded me of the very attitude that has driven me off. No ARC, no compassion, just Op Term, Op Term, Op Term.

    For a minute there I thought Jenny was going to jump up and smack Anderson Cooper across the face. Norm looked like a raving lunatic, and Tommy, you can say “never” as many times as you’d like, but it won’t change the fact that these things did happen. Lies only cause the problem to persist.

    I wasn’t quite sure if Ann was displaying a sliver of personal integrity or if she went into self-defense mode when Anderson asked why the wives didn’t do anything about the outnesses they saw. Will have to watch it again and pay closer attention.

    I’m very impressed with the way AC is conducting this. I was very happy to hear that he wasn’t making this about Scientology, the religion and thought the opening, where he read the Creed of the Church, etc. was quite good. Can’t wait to see the rest of the series.

  122. Fellow Traveller

    I can’t spell today. Sorry.
    “Times video interviews”
    “spouses never showed signs”

  123. martyrathbun09

    Did anyone notice the 600 dollar an hour lawn ornament with Tommy Davis at all times? Was it lost on anyone that she is a lawyer? Who needs a lawyer as a nanny when having a conversation with Anderson Cooper?

  124. Anderson – the bottom line is that this is NO history of violence in the Church of Scientology.
    If you say that again I’m going to get up and slap the shit out of you!!! Don’t be rude!!! LOL

  125. What stood out for me was that their denials were empty and devoid of substance. They were just “No, it didn’t happen”. In the real world there would be evidence of the investigations that would have followed, email trails, police reports, etc.
    Secondly, Tommy Davis denied just too many times – not credible and the lack of sincerity was palpable.
    Lastly, what an incredible lack of leadership by Miscavage. As a poster said, hiding behind skirts at a time when he should be up front and center.

  126. Fellow Traveller

    Yes, thank you.

    I did but did not know who or what it was. I guessed that it was a lawyer, perhaps that Yingling gal, because of the one correction she made.

  127. Thank you to all who are speaking out.
    My heart breaks for Norm Starkey as he appears beaten down, crazed and downright disconnected from reality.

  128. Just posted on AC360:

    Tommy Davis says that David Miscavige was “not there” when the attacks occurred. I’ll tell you who was not there: Tommy Davis. Davis was only moved up to the Int base recently. The violence has been going on there since the 1980s! I know, because unlike Tommy Davis I was there non stop from 1989 until 2004. I personally saw Davis Miscavige attack several individuals, who if they fought back would have instantly been disconnected from their wives, families and friends.

    Furthermore, I was never involved in any beatings. Only threatened by Miscavige, directly on several occasions because I refused to bend to his will.

    Many people ask, “How come nobody fought back?” As I explained to Tom Tobin of the St Petersburg Times, “Tom, are you married? Do you love your wife? Imagine if this morning was the last time you will ever see her for the rest of your life. Sure, you’d like to beat the hell out of Miscavige, but at the cost of not even getting to say goodbye? Most men would rather take the abuse than abandon their loved ones – since, if you get kicked out, your wife will still be there in harms way.”

    And the proof of that is look who the Church of Miscavige trotted out to discredit Marty? His ex wife. Guess who Jenny Linson is? Jennifer Devocht – ex-wive of Tom Devocht who was also featured last night in a short clip speaking out about physical violence.

    In the end, just before Marty and Tom walked out, I left. I also left behind my now ex-wife of 16 years. It took nearly three months to get out of there, but I did at the cost of my marriage. After 20 years on staff I started life over at 46 with a severance of $500 from the Church of Miscavige. I have rebuilt my life from scratch and today I am very happily remarried.

    Once I got things in order, I started to speak out and today run a rather large website for the purpose, which is a distinct thorn on the side of the Miscavige camp. The point is not retribution, however; it is to stop the abuse and to bring justice. (My website is http://www.scientology-cult.com).

    Church response to the dozens of whistle blowers who’s information is posted on my website can be summarized thus: “Discredit, discredit, discredit.” In doing so, they are “following” a twisted policy of Hubbard to always attack, never defend. Whatever is said, Tommy Davis will just swear “It never happened.” It is also policy to put together packs of “evidence” proving every allegation “false.” But If one knows what policy they are operating on, it becomes quite easy to see through the veil.

    For example, if anyone says David Miscavige beat up someone in November 2003, the Church will supply pages of receipts “proving” that Miscavige was in Florida all during that month. Really it proves nothing of the sort, because those receipts didn’t actually come from David Miscavige. They are simply receipts gotten from the Accounting Department which were expenses from someone else.

    Top-level staff knowingly lie in a misguided effort to protect the religion. They think if Miscavige were to go down, the whole religion would be endangered. This is sheer idiocy, since Miscavige is the snake on the neck of Scientology pumping in venom; nothing can heal or grow until the snake is pulled off.

    Imagine this: Two guys bring a third man to the ER. The doctor starts to examine the patient and sees a live rattler still attached to his neck. “There’s a snake on his neck!” exclaims the Doctor. Instead of pulling the snake off, the friends bring in doctor’s ex wife who explains, “My snake never bit anyone. The Doctor is lying. Actually, he is the one who bit the patient.”

    Those staff – Norman Starkey, Jenny Devocht and others really ARE that loony and stupid. And they got that way by following David Miscavige and taking his abuse.

    I don’t blame anyone for the animosity they feel toward Scientology, it is actually been created actively by David Miscavige since his income depends on “fighting wars.” He has the financial motive to keep things as they are, i.e., to keep Scientology “misunderstood.” Scientologists who know what the philosophy is all about want desperately to help the world understand the philosophy… which means they flow millions of dollars into a “war chest” for the purpose. That war chest is what pays for David Miscavige’s $500 Egyptian hand tailored shirts, his cars, homes, chefs, hair stylist and make up crew who follow him where ever he goes, and his army of Private Investigators who he sends against any whistle blower including myself.

    The key is, we ex-staff know their game plan. We know their rule book and how it is being twisted. We aren’t denying anything, just being truthful in exposing the abuses so they can be ended. And we, each one of us, survived David Miscavige’s infamous Int Base where hellish psychological abuse was the daily fare raining down from David Miscavige, a true sociopath if there ever was one.

    We are the ones he could not break. And now we are doing something about him no matter the cost.

    The Church has an reputation for being tough. Well, today all the people who earned that reputation are outside and we’re cleaning house.

    Steve Hall

  129. I think you are right: the intended point of the COS response is to keep those still loyal something to hang their continued loyalty on. Yes people like Starkey come off as whacked out to most people (and if you missed that part it is because some of it was part of a sneak peek of the next episode during the broadcast). His response was slightly similar to when Heber went off the rails on Bryant Gumbel a few years ago when he was doing a story on Lisa McPherson. And “indignant” is SOP.

    I’ve been a bit disappointed with how AC is presenting the thing. A lot of “coming up” and peeks at the next episode rather than a single coherent presentation.

    And if he was more knowledgeable, he could have followed the response about “of course we have phones” with a quick cut to someone like Marty saying: “You aren’t allowed to have your own phones at Int Base and any calls you make are monitored.” Maybe that is still to come.

    The fact they are covering this is great, but so far I can only give them about a B-

    Since DM is watching this show, I wonder if he’ll decide, as usual, he is the only one who can handle the situation correctly and make an appearance at the last minute. Maybe AC has his number, accounting for the big invitation he gave during the show.

  130. I don’t know, I think all of us who were there really miss a very important point:
    What happened last night was bastardly and sick beyond all belief. For me it was bittersweet. Because the victims had to go out and speak. The guy holding a knife to their throats remains hidden. The victims did what they could to save their necks. Jenny Liston is a victim (although from personal experiences with her – she is not a nice person)
    But just how does it happen? How do you get Marty’s, Tom’s and Mike’s ex-wives to go on international TV and say that their husbands were the violent ones? I mean I can’t even imagine the comm cycle that would go down between DM and them to have them go on TV and do what they did.

    When I saw Anne – I was shocked! Her eyes were red, she was under a tremendous amount of strain – it was painful to see! She did not look comfortable there at all. I feel very sorry for her and for Cathy – all of the ex-wives were married to their husbands for many years. For that to have gone down is surreal – it has never before been seen. Unfortunately it shows the power of black scientology. Many people are thinking that Scientology has become a very dangerous cult – I think this is going to bring an overbearing pressure on Miscavige to come out and speak. The cowardice of last night to force the ex wives to come out instead of himself was as clear as a pane of glass. I know it must have been very painful to have had to see Anne in that state Marty, I can hardly imagine.

  131. martyrathbun09

    Steve Hall, Amen brother.

  132. My favorite part was the look on Anderson’s face when Linson attacked him with the comment that he was being rude. What planet are you on lady?

    It amazes me that the people sent to represent an organization who is being accused of being abusive, would respond in such an aggressively antagonistic manor themselves. I’ve seen murderers defend themselves with more affinity.

    My hope is that the exposer of these and other long term abuses in the church force the C of M to knock it off.

  133. Wow, Steve … that was wonderful!

    Just Me

  134. These are my observations about last night’s CNN piece.
    Poor Tommy not only can’t keep his eyes from darting to the right but he can’t get his eyebrows to cooperate either. Could it be Morse Code for “Help! Get me out of here!”
    Norman Sharkey possibly dealt a blow for his side when he managed to compare, by inference, child molesters, and Marty. It may have been a wash when he compared DM with the Pope.
    What were they thinking when they sent in ex-wives to refute testimony about DM’s violence. Hello?? They’re EX-WIVES!!!
    Linson really blew herself out of creditable waters when she couldn’t counter Anderson’s questions and covered with righteous indignation.
    The church really blew it when they refused to come on the show unless certian demands were met by CNN. Anderson mentioned it more than once. It made them look like a bunch of spoiled divas. Doesn’t anyone understand that “Slappy’s” refusal to come on any public venue makes him look like a little troll who can’t withstand the light of day? (I guess that wouldn’t go over too well if you put it to him that way)
    Lastly, I want someone to answer this question. They showed a photo of DM when he was younger and his ears stuck out like a little Dumbo. Then, in later photos, his ears look fine. Did he have an ear job?

  135. When looking at Norman, tears went in my eyes. Those guys were destroyed and inplanted by a real devil. We should do all we can to recue them. Compassion is a keynote. Old lesson from old masters.

  136. Fellow Traveller

    Brutally funny, Mat. No wonder Marty says he’s afraid of you!

  137. Fellow Traveller

    Man! Is that Sea Org toughness? It certainly is courageous by any measure.

    You fellas (and gals) kick some serious butt.
    Awesome, Steve.

  138. Sorry, I was mistaken….I thought that woman with Tommy was Cathy Rinder, but I think it was that lawyer. She’s the one who wanted to rip someone’s face off. Is she a Scn? Nasty mean woman. She couldn’t wait to jump in there and say some generality to try to discredit Marty.

  139. Where’s the rest?

  140. War and Peace // March 30, 2010 at 4:00 am | Reply

    I surveyed some WOGS who watched this.

    I think you would present Scientology in a much more positive and ethical way by NOT referring to non-scientologists with a offensive, denmeaning, racist epithet. That attitude and word smacks more of a cult inner-circle than a religion.

  141. martyrathbun09

    Jeanette,
    Well taken. But, I think W and P deserves a little more respect. He’s contributed one hell of a lot to the cause and to this blog in terms of education.

  142. The CNN AC 360 segment from last night is being aired again on 1:30 EST.

  143. Don’t you love it how she says that David Miscav. was gone from the base for 3 years and had no idea what was going on and Cooper says to her “You have telephones, don’t you?” She then does her little number of “You’re being quite rude.” LOL!

  144. Thanks Steve!
    Confronting evil is sometimes difficult. But it’s the only way out.

  145. Cat Daddy
    Could you post the Utube links of the shows? I don’t have cable. Thanks for posting what you did.

  146. Norm Starkey forfeited his right to deny anyone’s eternity once he decided squirreling the tech is cool with him. LRH says to leave the door open a crack always but Norm knows better than LRH how to administer PTS/SP tech. Keep in mind Starkey the TRAITOR sees fit to eliminate auditors through the basics, counter clear policy on building fund accounts and posh looking buildings, SMASH the stats for decades on end and use all his might to keep the SP above him in power so the squirreling can continue.

    Norm I hope you read this you little punk because if anyone’s going to need to cough up some concrete answers for high crime treason it’s you. It’s only a matter of time. So how about changing your ways before the brand of coward traitor sticks, and that’ll be the only dictate that sticks for eternity, Tiger forever.

    It’ll read something like, “Starkey led Scientologists down a dead end road, off the Bridge at the crucial moment. He will never ever be posted as an Exec again in any future lifetime no matter the circumstances or amends made”.

  147. Fellow Traveller

    DM’s photo was another coup for the Gold A/V department as single handedly run by DM himself. It was meticulously reconstructed pixel by pixel by comparing the original photo with the real mccoy. The stats for that project have been enshrined in the marble in bld 70 I think it is.

  148. One other point, Starkey’s positioning and comparing DM to the Pope is a delicious irony considering the mess his Holiness is in.

  149. Unfortunately I don’t have cable and hope that these videos are being made available on the net, but from the comments I’ve read, I can only say that if DM never hit or abused anyone like Tommy and others from the CofM claim, why is it that DM cannot come out of hiding and tell us so with a straight face?

    It is crystal clear that Ethics are out at the top of Scn. CNN is putting in Ethics. What a bypass. This alone should warrant the immediate resignation and RPF/Expulsion of the entire top of Scn.

  150. Marty,
    To be fair, you had Chiquita, the dog who wouldn’t fetch, it’s only right that Tommy and the others have their counsel.

    I’m surprised that they didn’t show up with a couple of Master’s At Arms to chuck Anderson in the lake for his impertinence in asking ‘Don’t you have phones?’

    Then again, Jenny Linson could barely sit in her chair and restrained only slightly the ‘Severe Reality Adjustment’.

    It amazes me, only until I think about it, that these guys don’t realize they are NOT at the Int Base. They are in CNN’s studios. The browbeating, the incredulous looks that someone would actually question them and their assertions of ‘we are right, we are right’ (or as Gary Weise yelled at me in a Comm Ev way back when ‘you are not equal!!’) are just so out of present time it’s like watching ‘toons’.

    Anderson asks why the violence, which was widespread and rampant according to the affadavits, but now is isolated and only a few times, wasn’t reported. The response: David Miscavige wasn’t there?! Huh?

    Not only that, but if you ask any more questions about it, well, Jenny the attack dog is going to do what she does; attack. Nope, no violence in any of that.

    I’m getting popcorn for tonight’s adventure of the Int People out in the world. ‘You are not equal!!’

  151. One can look at in different ways. But always the conclusion will be the C.O.S failed. Tommy Davies admitted that beatings occurred, but didn’t give any real facts.
    So beatings occurred in the S.O: A failure on all lines. Even if DM didn’t beat anybody, he has to take the responsibility for it, what he doesn’t want to do. So he is not a leader but a coward. Its a very, very sad story. Those Sea-Org members should be Scientologists that have done the Comm-course and are teaching the ARC triangle to other people.
    Comm on , it’s really sad, they look like freaks !
    No tr O, no arc. What was that ?
    The most ethical people of planet earth ?
    What would LRH say of them ?
    If marty. Mike and all others are liars you would just take them to court.
    BUT the C.O.S doesn’t do it !
    What a mess and how sad to see those once propably great people in that state of Mind.
    It’s a big difference to hear or read about them then to see them, even if it’s only on TV.
    Just unbelievable….unbelievable…
    It’s a hard to confront…
    Who wants to confront and handle it ?

    LO

  152. Jenny Debauchery… I mean, ex-Devotch now Lindsen. Could you please clarify why and how if someone asks you a question “Do you guys not have phones?” — please explain the the world how that is rude?

    On the other hand and talk about Norman’s statement “the overt speaks loudly in accusation” ANYONE who has ever had the misfortune of ever having anything to do with you would know you are the rudest person anyone could ever come across. And I know this because I didn’t just meet you had the misfortune of working under you for 4 years.. never met anyone more RUDE.

    I do not even need to speak Tommy Davis, because, well that is just a lost cause… And poor Ann you can tell she has been put through the “ringer” and probably blamed for being the wife of “Marty” and not spotting what a big “SP” he was. Typical, typical typical…

    You know David Miss-Cavige kept them separated for most of their “marriage” I wonder if he is putting himself in the “hole” for not spotting “Marty” as the “SP” ” Ooooops, I forgot, I never make mistakes — everyone else does around me and I am little Mr Perfect.

    Dont you guys see if Miss-Cavige had any brain cells left he could easily and swiftly handle this horrendous motivator the Church is receiving.. Oh oops I forgot, they see this as “the signs of success” and “Flourish and Prosper” — what about the rest of the precepts? “Seek to live with the Truth” “Dont do to others those things which you would’t want them to do to you?”

    I mean Phleaaaaaseeee… but no, it wont be resolved and it will continue to tarnish the name of Scientology.

    Jenny Debauchery — do us and the Church a favor, study how things are handled in the “wog world”. NO ONE cares about your “title” out here and while you may continue to carry your self and all your “debauchery” inside the Church’s walls, please dont make the Church look worse than it already is… in other words stop digging the grave…

    I am just saying….. I am appalled by all of you, yet again not surprised in the least.

  153. … or a not so subtle attempt to intimidate Mr. Cooper?

    “One step out of line Buster and we’ll sue the pants off ya!”

  154. Hi Vadim,

    Your freedom is on special this week!

    Buy your freedom this week before thursday at 2:00pm and get another one for half price! And this week only I will throw in a free floating TA with every purchase.

    🙂
    Alex

  155. Hello Marty,

    I’m not a Scientologist so I hope you don’t mind me posting a comment here. I’m posting because I wanted to offer my support (and that of my friends and family) to you for having the courage and strength to speak out against your Church under its current leaders. I watched CNN AC360 with a large group of friends and family (none of whom are Scientologists) but we were left in no doubt whatsoever that YOU were telling the truth. (Especially having watched numerous and quite frankly unbelievable responses from Mr Tommy Davis in the past!) It makes me personally very sad to think anyone should have to suffer such abuses in the course of following their religion. I may be wrong but I’ve heard that Scientologists call non-scientologists “Wogs”. So I want to say that this “Wog” and her family of “Woglets” would like to offer our support in any way possible and hope that you and the “Pure” followers of your faith win this “battle” – for want of a better world. P.S. Your dog is cute!

  156. Wow, Jim … “You are not equal!”

    Gee. They’re serious, aren’t they?

    (mouth open, shaking head)

    Just Me

  157. martyrathbun09

    Maggie, You are no “wog”. We are trying to dispense with that term. But its real meaning in the Scientology vernacular is “someone who isn’t even trying.” Well, certainly you and yours are doing far more than that. You helping! Thank you so much. I think I can write on behalf of most folks who consider themselves “independents” and who frequent this blog when I write, God bless you and your family.

  158. The Scientology philosophy is to make you an independent thinker and an OT. Being part of a group of OT’s would be different from being in an “organized religion”.

    DM’s CofM is now an organized religion full of bad control. Good positive control is sometimes necessary to make OT’s. But you get very little of that in the CofM.

  159. Yea and how about that positioning of DM to the Pope by Starkey (Pope is almost equiv to God in the Cath church). Then God said “Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness”. Looks like DM has succeeded in doing just that. Solid, scared, lying, unforgiving, crazed, unhappy, trapped people.

  160. Oracle,

    GREAT POINT!!

  161. Redneck Thetan

    What Jim said about their attitudes on camera leads to something I’ve been wondering since the Jim Sweeney debacle on the BBC – has the church ever hired media consultants? Real media consultants, like the kind that politicians and big Protestant churches couldn’t live without? Because there are so many things they do wrong, everything from the choice of clothing (wearing black on TV is a very bad idea – even if you are in great health you get washed out under lights) to handling questions during an interview. Not to mention that they are doing a horrible job in hiding their obvious disgust for journalism.

  162. lowprofileforthemoment

    Dear Marty,

    You did very well.
    You are a brave soul and I commend you.

    Your honesty and sincerity flowed like water from a sparkling stream. The ARC in your comm cycle spoke volumes!
    Tommy has an angry undertone to his whole beingness, no TR’s and looks like he’s had very little case gain or lost it somewhere, if he ever did achieve some wins. The the ladies and execs all look PTS, sick, out ruds and nervous.

    In about 1995, I was living in LA, doing my LOC at CC. I had a bit of time and went up to Gold to work as an extra on the shooting of the movie Orientation. Thought it might be fun. While there, I observed the director of the movie was at RAGE on the tonescale and quite invalidative to some of the actors. I was disgusted and left.

    If I get any feedback “out in the world” today on the show, I’ll post it.

    I see a brighter future.
    Thank you.

  163. O.K., a little comedy. About Starky, he has always been oblivious. I used to see him at the Hollywood Health Spa after I left the S.O. sitting in the steam room and whirlpool for hours. Some life! He practically lived there! But there he sat, all groomed as any lady would be. And he speaks about accusing others of what one himself is guilty of, and then, as if a frog were hopping from his throat he spits out the word PEDAFILE and begins A=A with the Catholic Church in the most effeminate manner possible. Against the backdrop of all that madness in the news! In fact, an entire special is devoted to this right before tonight’s Anderson series on Scientology! Starky positioned himself with pedafile and the Catholic Church issue and now it will be airing right before tonight’s show! Of all the PR blunders available! And worse, as if any Scientologist watching that, would think, “the overt doth speak loudly, ..yes…and here is Starky throwing out PEDAFILE in the midst of a discussion So far removed from that to begin with! I mean, you know….ha! ha! Yes Mr. Starky, We know the overt doth speak loudly! What’s this pedafile thing you have attention on?……

  164. Just more of the same “domination by nulification” tactics from the CofM.

    Alex

  165. David Miscavige hides behind the skirts of women.

    Wow that sounds a bit chavenistic of me but he sure needs a hell of a lot of skirts to hide behind.

  166. To all of you,

    CNN is showing the mini-story of the segment aired last night on at least an hourly basis and has been since early this morning. I work at home and have CNN on all day as a normal routine, as do many businesses and corporations all across America, especially in lobbies and waiting rooms for clients and tradespeople. There will be NO SENTIENT PERSON in the United States of America who will not have heard about this story, especially the affluent business and corportate types. Additionallly, about every 15 to 30 minutes, the AC 360 Scientology story is advertised for tonight, and I heard one just as I was writing this comment. The hourly segments end, or at least some of them, with the invitation for DM to appear, and also state that this has nothing to do with questioning the beliefs of Scientologists, or the Scientology religion.

    The abuse has gone mainstream in a huge way, and NOW, there is nowhere in the world that DM can go where his crimes will not be known. No wonder he is in hiding! The cold light of truth has finally been shown upon him, IN FLOODLIGHTS, all across the planet! Now, the PLANET CAN BE CLEARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Finally, LRH, his family, (who have been the worst victims of DM’s abuse), thousands of Scientologists, including me and my son, have some vindication for the crimes of which we have been the recipient. I will not call us victims, because now we are CAUSE. MY ETERNAL GRATITUDE MARTY FOR TAKING US FROM EFFECT TO CAUSE!
    THANKS MARTY, VVWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  167. Hi Jim,

    LOL!! Funny commentary, you should write a sit comm about the Int base.. maybe call it ” I love DM”. Daveeey I’m home!!

  168. I wonder what would be the effect if all that are out and are eyewitness to the truth that DM was in fact there would put in sworn affedavits to account of that.

  169. Titus Andronicus

    I just wanted to say that I watched last night’s installment occupying the point of view of the everyday joe or jane — well, I made an effort to do so but surely lapsed into my own viewpoint from time to time.

    Marty — you did a great job, last night. You were lucid, credible and believable.

    I would not say the same about the other side even if I were being generous. I’m going to refrain from saying what I observed if I were an ordinary joe or jane. They can figure out where they went wrong in presenting their argument.

  170. Thank you for the very articulate and hard hitting comment that you sent to CNN.

    I took the liberty of cut and pasting your post to a close friend of mine — I’m keeping my fingers crossed that sooner rather than later, he’ll come forward.

    WH

  171. Redneck Thetan,

    Yes, last night’s showing was rather pathetic, wasn’t it.

    I don’t know this for a fact, but have read online that years ago (don’t know when) CofS hired Trout and Ries (any marketing 101 grad knows who they are) and Hill and Knowlton (ditto re PR 101 types).

    I don’t know whether these CoS reps are getting professional messaging and PR advice. But the difference between TD’s and Mike Rinder’s communication style is night and day. I’d wager, as many here have hypothesized, that the CoS is now scraping the dregs of its theta and professional resources.

    One more contrast to consider … compare these spokespersons’ effectiveness vs. the effectiveness of Christie on the Today Show a few weeks ago.

    It’s a no-contest, isn’t it?

    Just Me

  172. Just Me,
    As serious as a ser fac.

  173. Anonymous at Cause, Empty Orgs as the Effect. Public Scientologists withdrawing its coöperation with staff and management. Scientologists declaring independance. People seeking their rights through the courts. Everybody works from his or her angle. In the end it will be “The dead of a thousand cuts” for the Church. Media finally on board because (deliberate bad grammar coming) Anons made journalists doesn’t afraid of anything again.

    The “Pope” of Scientology is hiding and has no confront at all.

  174. Jenny, Jenny, jenny, Jenny!

    ok, so lets get this clear — “DM was not at the Int Base while all these beating took place”?

    Where was he???

    Oh yes, I forgot he was too busy with his “bestie” T.C — We happen to run into him at the Paramount Studios enjoying the “Harry Potter” screening!!!

    Oh yes, this was right in the “middle of production time” — last person that went to a movie was sent to wash dishes for 3 years, I will back you up and say he didn’t beat anyone at the screening, because I didn’t witness any ambulances being called upon the scene. Then again if he DID beat someone there, he would’t be protected by the Church and charges would be pressed against him, yeah he may be dumb but not THAT dumb.

    The double standards, the double standards. You should tell AC how you dont allow anyone to have phones too btw DM made it a policy so that no one except for his approved clones could ever have a cell phone and all the land lines are monitored and wired so that security can listen in to all phone calls coming in and out of that place. So yes Mr Cooper believe it or NOT, no one has PHONES. And when Jenny answered “of course we do” it was yes SHE does have one but she is one of the approved clones.

    Dont worry someone will catch him on video, he will put a stop to his madness and get caught criminals always do. I wonder what tommy will say then? probably the same though “absolutely all lies didnt happen never happened blah blah blah….”

    On a different note I guess you must be pretty low on perception if all these four wives “knew” their husbands were beating people for three years but DM didnt?? what gives? nothing makes sense.

    The problem will not go away because is a cesspool of LIES AND DECEPTION — SURELY THAT WONT GET ASS-ISED. That is just BASIC AXIOMS.

  175. And as far as the Scientology community goes, very bad PR. The worst! Anyone who is a Scientologist will notice Anderson missed a withold on Jenny right before she ser faced on him and became abusive! That is a textbook missed withold reaction. And. what was it he said right before she blew up?

  176. “You don’t have to be a Scientologist or an ex-Scientologist to care about this story and to want to hear every last word of it.”

    When people all over the world start to notice and care you have to scratch your head at some point and think to yourself: Maybe there is something astray within our Church.

  177. Thanks, Alex! My heart keeps getting filled with tenderness towards you and those SuperHuman beings who CAN and WILL give me eternity and freedom for a modest price.
    I was looking forward to it for ETERNITY!

    And,,, Yeah! I DO need some extra F/Ns for free!
    Otherwise I might feel that it’s type 2 exchange (or even type 1).
    Alex, PLEASE! DO make me all powerful! Otherwise I will die from the degree CoS is making fun of itself. 🙂

    Vadim Dolgov

  178. I think Anderson mentioned at the top of the interview with tommy that she was a lawyer -she’s definitely a solid, resentful, presence, and she’s dirty dirty dirty.

    I guess dm has her there in an attempt to either to keep tommy’s mouth from getting him rpf’d or keep tommy from begging Anderson Cooper for sanctuary…

  179. Why TD needed a lawyer with him in an interview?
    is not a court room???? did he thinks she was going to ” I objet your honor” I mean Mr Cooper to some of the questions?? or something like that??

    or for legal matters they needed a lawyer with him???
    somebody knows????

  180. Thoughtful, I adore you.

  181. And as if everything I’ve posted already isn’t bad enough? Did you see the preview clip of Tom Devocht? His beauty and sincerity streams through the television screen. He makes Johny Depp and Brad Pitt look bad! The minute his face flashes across that screen millions of women will forget anything they heard up to that moment. There is nothing anyone from the Church can say, to erase that image and effect. He has got it over Tom Cruise! That is going to destroy whatever the Church representatives had to say about anything. That beautiful, sincere, rugged, brutally handsome face. His mouth will open and everyone will stand still and listen. And that will be a wrap!

  182. Was the director Mitch Brisker? What’s the deal w/ this guy – he isn’t on staff or s.o. and does very well directing scn films. How /why does he escape the conditions of int? Or does he? Would like it if anyone has any scoop on this guy.

  183. Oracle if it is true what you are alledging about Starkey It saddens me to the core of my being.

    (American:Pedophile/ English: Peadophile)

    If Anons go to task on this will they find his ruin ?

  184. I liked the former pope a billion better, this one has outlived his usefulness very quickley.

  185. People scroll down to Sinars post please of part D It was reupped because it cut of at the wrong pouiint. i witnessed the discussion about that on well you know lol.

    Kingair350 How exactly do you mean that and how is that a problem. I do not undertsand and I am willing to be of assistence.

  186. Fiesty woman. Imagine her grandeur if she was not under the suppression of the Karate Kid.

  187. Huckleberry maybe cheff from the Southpark cartoon series can help with some sweet lovin’…..oops nevermind.

  188. Then why is their talk of a TR-L ?

  189. Yes I think she enjoyes being the Queen sub of DM the Slavemaster, She is submissive to him and she keeps all the other submissives in cherck.

  190. Typical throwing of the subject wich was the phones. that is a TR right ?

  191. Sorry I know that is bullbaiting sorry i asked.

  192. ED INT looked really rough.

  193. Great time to think about the future!

    We’ve all had enough with corporate “Scientology”.
    We were promised one thing, and we had to deal with something else – less desirable, less pleasant, more ugly… you name it!

    Corporate Church is going down. We help it happen sooner. We make TA. We win. They are losing like hell.
    They are never going to get off the ground again.

    Did anybody think of the future of corporate scientology? – I mean, WHAT entity will issue materials – videos, audio, printed materials?

    To me it looks like current corporate scientology did it all – for Independents and for the rest of mankind. I don’t think much of DM these days but he’s been pushing this line – “materials are available”.
    Now we have them available.
    Will anybody take care of the future of that? Who will? Is it needed by mankind?
    Will there be another corporate entity?
    Will it some independent group? (Can we trust them then?)

    I believe those are legitimate questions.

    And they DO have MUCH to do with current review of DM’s obstruction of justice.

    P.S. I personally don’t much care about corporate or independent scientology. I only want people – greatest people I’ve known – to be free to be themselves, speak their mind and communicate without views-filtered-through-scientology. I have great many people trapped inside who won’t speak (even if they are out of SO… and even out of lines).
    P.P.S If someone would give me a tech of how to talk to people stuck into visions of scientology without necessity to see and deal with the real world around them, I would appreciate that very much.

  194. Getting people salvaged from corporate Scientology and from fixed ideas about scientology religion “being the ONLY thing there is” is my main concern. I want free people who were my friends who I can speak to freely and without getting into “scientology truths and axioms” in the end.

  195. God bless you too Marty! You, your famly and the “independents” are in our thoughts and prayers! You admitted your mistakes and faced up to millions of people! You’re a good guy in our books!

  196. Virgil Samms

    I know this has been kinda shown before but the parallels are incredible:

    CNN: “The Americans are marching across the desert. We just watched the live reports of them entering Baghdad.”

    Baghdad Bob: “No, no Americans in Baghdad, they are in the desert committing suicide right now. They met up with the Replublican Guard and they were too much, now Americans are killing themselves.”

    CNN: “But we just saw live feed from Baghdad of American tanks blowing up Iraq tanks…”

    Baghdad Bob: “No. What you saw was Hollywood movie. The Americans cannot be in Baghdad because Republican Guard have stopped them.”

    CNN: “Do you want to see the live feed? Maybe it will help you….”

    Bagdad Bob: “No! No live feed. America is in the desert right now doing suicide.”

    It was huge comic relief. If you want to see more Baghdad Bob, look on Youtube. Tommy does the same thing: Comic Relief: “No, no beatings, ever. No violence. Never. No.”
    “They are all lying?”
    “Yes.”

    Baghdad Bob lives.

  197. Anderson Cooper and ex-high ranking officials expose a history of violence in the Church of the Living Dead.

    Part 2, tonight.

  198. Well said!!

    WH

  199. No shi*t, I thought that, too. Guillueme – the wild cowboy of EU – used to get the continental stats up while not following management’s stream of orders. Go figure.

  200. Thank you both for such sincere and beautiful statements!

  201. You got that right… not 5 minutes before Anderson went on the air, the news anchor was talking about the Pope condoning and covering up crimes by his own priests abusing young boys. Literally, every time Norman opens his brainless mouth it’s a Freudian slip that ruins Miscavige. It’s right out of Mission Earth. On Scn-cult Arthur Doyle has already drawn the parallel between Tommy Davis and J. Warbler Madman…

  202. Since Maggie already seconded that, I want to “third” it. Use of the word “wog” as a pejorative term simply evinces one’s individuation from membership in “the human race.” I am proud to be a member of the human race; that is whom we have turned to for help in stopping the abuse. And they are answering the call.

  203. Steve,

    That says it all. My heartfelt gratitude to you and all the truth seekers. Thank you for your courage and tenacity. It is very much appreciated.

  204. Dear Maggie, I’m very honored to know that you exist and we can be friends even if we’ve never met.
    I’m the first italian independent scientologist!

  205. Cat Daddy,
    I can’t tell you about TR-L, well it’s real intent, because it’s a secret.

  206. Excellent point.

    I can think of two instances right off… the laments of child molestation of a former staff member’s child (she finally left left but remained died-in-the-wool) and a case of felony fraud (over $350K) where Ethics personnel coerced each (by intimidation, introversion, threats) that going to the law would mean the loss of their own salvation.

    Whereas the “handle it within” policy arguably make sense, the ultimate crime is failure to administer justice and resolution. It becomes more of a withhold and ostracization from one’s own society.

    The “us” vs. “them” is one of the biggest blinders that come off once one sees the light. Most people love theta,most people are wonderful, most people would have a blast with Scientology and getting up the bridge. Most people welcome a WAY(tools!) to unravel eons of less bright 😉 choices stupid solutions and misery!

  207. Redneck Thetan

    The complete report from last night, including The Ex-Wives Club, is now the top story on CNN.com. Also, Scientology is the #2 hot topic on the site for today (you can scroll down and see that with the headline farm.) Scientology is also trending really heavily on Twitter today.

  208. ” Gosh, what must Tom have gone through married to that pretty package rabid pit bull with lip gloss.” Friend

    Dear Friend, Obviously his experiences working under her were different than the rest of us.

  209. I noticed that, too! Cooper asking “You have phones, don’t you?” threw her tr’s out, and missed her withhold, because while SHE has a phone, most of the people at Int do NOT. Immediately following that was her arrogant remark to Cooper.

  210. I’ve been watching also. As the headlines “HISTORY OF ABUSE” scream across the screen .

    Geeze those executives are on a motivator flow!

  211. Relevant to the cruel treatment of so many souls at CoS International headquarters and the arrogance exhibited by CoS’s current execs on AC360 this week …

    I just read a great post called “Anderson Cooper – Kind vs. Cruel” written by “Scarlet Pumpernickel” (see http://bit.ly/aN1jRp) over at one of Marty’s sister sites (www.scientology-cult.com).

    Scarlet’s piece includes an excerpt from an LRH essay on kindness and ends with these three sentences:

    “But the fellow who’s mean and who’s ornery and who’s cutting communications all the way along the line, we find he’s in the soup.

    “Therefore, a standard of optimum human performance would be measured on the basis of human kindness as a high and human meanness as a low.

    “So we know the answer at last to whether you should have been mean all those times or whether you should have been more kind: You should have been more kind.”

    Just Me

  212. Does anyone know if Tommy was a witness to any DM violence?

  213. Whoopse! Typo. Check out chart of human evaluation, column Handling Truth for this tone band.

  214. Freedom Fighter

    Last night’s video is now front and center at the top of CNN’s Web site:

    http://www.cnn.com/

  215. Fellow Traveller

    “[B]ecause remember, the only thing more stupid than being eaten by sharks is being eaten and not having a video tape.” Anderson Cooper
    Go AC.

  216. Freedom Fighter

    Looks like CNN is rotating through the stories. Now there’s some other video featured on the home page.

  217. Thanks Steve,

    You exemplify what a Sea Org member is.

    ARC,
    Alex

  218. Well, I think you came off as the credible one. Tommy Davis is denying things he was not present to observe. Anyone else would have said – “I was not there but XYZ did not happen.”

    I do believe that Scientology is currently operating as a cult. Perhaps in its normal state it is a therapy or social device. It is not a religion and I do not believe it should use a cross a symbol, as that is a symbol of Christianity.

  219. Fellow Traveller

    One more observation for today. If you want to control someone lie to him. If you want to own someone, have or make him lie for you.

  220. I agree Marty.
    I think War and Peace is cool.
    The term wog just means worthy oriental gentleman, I don’t think it is always a term of disrespect.
    Alex

  221. Mr. Fair,

    You made me think of this: Norman Starkey saying “the overt doth speak loudly in accusation.”

    NOBODY other than Scientologists would have a clue what he meant by that. Did he say that for the Scientologists or is he just so out of it that he cannot communicate to the everyday man anymore?

    Alex

  222. Terrific, Haydn.

  223. Marty moderate my naïve comment out since it is counterproductive. If I want to haunt the man I can email him.

    naïve in the way posting it on your blog not in that it is not an intresting question

  224. It’s mis-applied TR’s, CD. Sort of the inverted, turned inside-out version. 🙂

  225. Marty,

    Thank you for being the voice of so many, and for all you’ve been through to do it — from the evolution in personal growth & integrity to confronting the harassment and heinous attempts to stop you from speaking.

    Thank you for practicing and upholding Scientology for what it truly is.

    Today, just going about daily work … I met many people who I uplifted, with a smile, by seeing them, by listening, with knowledge…and even by the presence of more free theta since auditing….I love seeing people come up and blossom! They have you to thank too;-) and LRH.

    THANK YOU MARTY!!!!!!!!!!

  226. Freedom Fighter

  227. Steve,

    Ever see “Night of the living dead”??

  228. Owen used to give a seminar on the ship called, “The Power of Postulates.” It was actually quite good, and Owen was a very funny, quite theta guy. I hope he comes to his senses some day, if he hasn’t already.

  229. whoM I uplifted …;) Sorry for typos and letting these comments fly… wanted to say also that it’s TRUE

    ANDERSON COOPER had his TRs in more than the supposed Scientologists.

  230. But he must know what’s happening as he himself has been physically attacked by Miss Savage.

    And you’re totally right about “black and blank with a missing mind.” He’s as far out of valence as you can get. He’s so far out of valence I’m surprised he can still run a body!

  231. Valkov,

    Norm Starkey doesn’t know because he’s too far out of valence. There’s no one there to know anything. 🙂

  232. Theo,

    Keeping Scientology Existing — KSE. That should be the new theme!

  233. Not at all, Paul. I think it’s wonderful that his body language goes along with his lies!

  234. Good point about Anderson, VaD. Anderson, Marty, Jeff Hawkins, and Tom DeVocht were in valence. All of DM’s stooges were far out of valence. Anderson and Marty demonstrated a good comm cycle and high ARC. DM’s stooges demonstrated the opposite.

  235. So true Alex.. SO true!!!!!!

  236. That’s a great idea, WH. But I think the real key is finding a way to get the communication to those in the S.O. that there is a large network of support for them out here. How can we do that?

  237. Redneck Thetan,

    the sad thing is (correct me if I wrong) the Gorging Org Management *has* hired professional media consultants. No amount of lipstick can make that pig look good.

  238. Just Me,

    What a great post. What you say is true and is beautifully articulated!

  239. VaD,

    It is good to see that you are not taking this too serious. Ha,ha. I know the Russians have a good sense of humor!!

    Just for being a good sport, I will throw in a free guest pass to see DM in his tanning booth before an Event and he will give you an autographed picture of himself giving a Severe Reality Adjustment to his junior Norman Starkey.

    🙂
    Alex

  240. Freedom Fighter

    Mat, see the video I posted below.

  241. I cannot say it any better than Lady Minn’s comments. I second all that.
    To Lady Minn – what did you mean by “Finally, LRH, his family, (who have been the worst victims of DM’s abuse)”… Why do you say his family have been the worst victims?

  242. Beautiful, Steve! And thoughtful. This shows who you, Marty, and the others who have left and are speaking out really are.

    And this: “My snake never bit anyone. The Doctor is lying. Actually, he is the one who bit the patient” really illustrates the point. Not to mention that it’s really funny. 🙂

  243. The Hubbard reference in this post is definitely Bingo.

    “Well religion has done this. Organized religion, tries to control, so therefore it must be lying, and therefore it must know it’s lying-after a while it figures out that even itself knows it’s lying. And then it starts on down the Tone Scale and gets further and further and further and people all of a sudden get down across this spring bottom and-’ Are we going into apathy and die or are we going to revolt?’ And they will revolt.”

    and fortunately, the subject itself can continue by shining the spotlight on the difference between
    “religion” and “god”
    between the corrupt Miscavige Corporation and actual Scientology, which is a tool to assist in all that is divine

  244. Thanks Joe Howard for the correction! :} How could I forget Owen’s name?? He’s a formidable man(I was in awe) for sure who loves games and is very sure of his knowingness.

    Zana~

  245. I find that staring into the face of someone I know is lying is like staring into a campfire at night. It’s hypnotic and trance-inducing in a way.

    I discover myself wishing that they could become real. That they could have the compassion to honor their best self.

    But no. They choose “no.”

    And I just stare into the fire.

  246. Curious…does anyone know when the violence started in the CoS. Did it come in with DM or was there a history of violence prior to DM?

  247. beebercat, You are totally right, that is utterly how it was at Int, meaning 5 minutes in their space and you are nearly totally enturbulated. I left in 2004, met with TD in Feb 2009, and within a few minutes I was as enturbulated as ever. The entire concept is “YOU AREN’T BEING HATEFUL ENOUGH. That is what’s going to turn the tide and save the day, just crank up the hate to Force 5 and if you won’t, we are going to attack you like a pack of mad wolves until you do. So you better get in some faces, move into confrontational mode…” bla, bla, bla ad infinitum.

    What would it take to stop Scientology of all things? “Total unrestrained insanity” and there you go. Indoctrinate every Sea Org member to HATE everyone and handle everyone from the tone level of HATE.

    Jenny is a dutiful student of the HATE school.

  248. Thanks to you all, and my heartfelt love and appreciation. None of this could be done without you. I’ve always felt this was a group engram and only the group can audit it out. Mile by mile, we are itsa’ing the suppression, and running out DM.

    One day soon he will be gone, gone, gone. And you can look in the mirror and thank yourself for making it happen.

    We are opening the door for a new Scientology that is true to its own principles of honor, integrity and joy.

    Re humor – you know LRH said laughter was the oldest therapy. ;-P

    Steve

  249. Does anybody and I mean anybody believe Tommy Davis?

    Does Tommy Davis believe Tommy Davis?

    It’s my guess that they are all PTS to David Miscavige.

  250. “DM could hardly care less what a bunch of “wogs” think about him.”

    Oh, I think he cares alot.

    Were’t all scientologists “wogs” at one time?

  251. Tommy’s kin?

  252. Here, here! 🙂

  253. Deirdre,
    “The above LRH quote completely explains registrars”
    That is too generalized. I was a registrar for many years and sincerely did my job, without feeling compelled to lie because I honestly thought that I was helping the public to get LRH tech, and that is all I registered them for—the Tech that frees beings—training and auditing. And, I made sure they arrrived and got it. I did not reg public for mest. But, I am no longer there after all, because I did not agree to selling mest and would not lie to get someone to pay for service.
    Ceileen

  254. Deirdre,
    I agree wholeheartedly.
    C

  255. I know I’m weighin in late here, but a working gal’s gotta work…Last night’s shows, todays articles and comments, open me up again – the raw stuff. I need to talk about it without being a smart-ass for a secnod or two (challenging for me). No replies needed – just thanks for being there.

    Those, The Living Dead, people just like me, people I know. There but for the Grace…. go I.

    Remembering before the big relief of separation from the suppression, when the house of cards started to come apart and I was slowly drawing the curtain back. The short instant relief of recognition of my rightness all along, followed by the deep, internal “holy sh*t” realizations.

    I felt like Ed Harris in the movie The Abyss when he vomits up gallons of breathing-water, as I hacked up the Kool-aid of trickery, betrayal, treason, and complicity, from deep inside.

    Right now, I’m feeling for everyone that’s been there, experienced the abuse directly, indirectly and residually, and for eveyone still there.

    I know there’s no other way than for each person, and thereby the group, to confront the truth, demonstrate transparency and learn authenticity. But, seriously, Ouch.

  256. Steve Hall;

    You nailed it. I will be sending your message to the 11 cowards who disconnected from me so they could kiss DM’s ass.

  257. The question is: Why does Tommy Davis have a lawyer with him now?

    Did he have a lawyer with him on other interviews?

    What can we learn from this?

    My guess is David Miscavige is getting worried that Tommy Davis might say something that could be used against him or the church in the future and cause him or the church some legal problems.

  258. Maggie;

    I welcome your comments. I am interested to know why a whole group of non-scientologists would be interested in what Anderson Cooper has to report about the abuses of scientology.

    I use non capitols letters for scientology because after 40 years studying this subject I have to tell you Maggie, I’m a bit embarrased to tell anyone I’m a scientologist.

    As Marty said, “God Bless you and your family”

  259. Yes, not only does it show a “TOTAL FAILURE IN MANAGEMENT,” but utterly implies a total failure of Scientology itself. Otherwise, how is it that these people were around for all those years, studied and went up the Bridge and came out like that. Implies it doesn’t work! THAT’s what I wish someone would confront the Church reps with.

  260. In about 7 minutes AC will present day two of abuse.

    CNN is holding all the cards on this one. They need to boost their dismal ratings. It is possible CNN is using these five reports on the abuse of Scientology to make hay.

    I predict move ex-wives, more foot bullits, more Starky Markys, more blunders. You have only seen the tip of this ice berg.

    I just hope this gets DM put in a corner so the abuse’s STOP

  261. I finally got to see the videos on youtube. Wow. Starkey. What an angry man. Why does he bring up this padophile thing. We are talking about the abuses of DM and he goes on and on about the pope and monks and stuff like that.

    Ok then lets say at the Vatican one cardinal beats the crap out of another cardinal and this has been going on for years and the Pope is unaware of this happening because he is always on a tour and no one has a phone to call him? (Anderson jumped on that outpoint right away).

    These executives all look unhappy and tired are rude, arrogant, and are lying “for the greatest good” or “to get browny points from the Pope”. And these are the people who run Scientology Internationally. I am so glad that I am out of that madhouse.

  262. Yes, I noticed that the Starkey portion was not on the AC360 website, but only at the end of the actual show. The whole thing will probably be on youtube soon, if not already.

  263. Mine too, Antoine. I’ve known Norman and his brother from the very beginning. Norman was the funniest, happy-go-lucky kid I knew back then. He was a brawler as well.

    What I saw last night was a completely lost soul, barely human. One becomes that depraved only by committing massive betrayals. I cannot even imagine the self-generated horror those poor devils live
    with each day of their lives. We all saw but a glimpse of it last night. If I encountered Norman on the street today about the only thing I could think of doing is offering to buy him a hot bowl of soup.

    AC’s blog comments are running about 98% nix Scn/C of S which is what I expected.

    I think what we should keep in mind is that AC is “preaching to the chior”. The average viewer is just having his suspicions confirmed. As mentioned by other posters, the real good effect (hopefully) is the awakening of many many Scientologists – with 4 more shows to go!

  264. That’s a bit of a leap, marildi.

    It shows a failure of application — or more accurately, judgement — by the management, imho.

    There’s no doubt that there needs to be a massive, and open, post mortem when all of this is over. We definitely have to take steps to ensure that this doesn’t happen again.

  265. Dear Maggie,

    Marty and Steve said it all. This world is a better place for all us (human race) only because great people such as yourself and your family are here.

    We love you all and appreciate your unconditional love and support. God bless you all!!!!!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  266. Moving Forward

    This is my first time posting on this blog (or any site) about the Church and wanted to join the other voices speaking up here. I was on staff and in the SO for 10 years and have been offlines with an FL debt for several years. I have decided to go independent (as has one of my close friends), but cannot go public as yet due to family and other connections. I was a hardliner and never thought I’d consider leaving.

    When I first heard the allegations of violence made here, I just didn’t couldn’t believe it, but there were too many people coming forward; I couldn’t just dismiss it. After reading so many articles, posts, watching the videos and after many weeks of reflecting on my own history in the SO, I have come to believe these stories of abuse and can see that any real internal change at this point will require external pressure. I’m very saddened that it’s gotten to this point.

    I gained some measure of respect for Anderson Cooper while watching him cover the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. He was clearly genuinely affected by the tragedy he was covering and at one point stopped reporting just jumped in and started helping people – not as a PR stunt, but because it was the right thing to do. I’ve never seen a reporter do something like that. I thought he was very fair in the way he presented the information last night, taking pains to point out that this had nothing to do with the beliefs or practices of Scientology, in fact pointing out that the violence was opposed to actual Scientology. I thought that very respectable of him.

    The SO Members on the program came off as arrogant and antagonistic. The women who spoke were inconsistent and Jenny Linson was not only rude but her answers were actually non-sequitor to the questions. When Anderson asked why nothing was done when Marty, as they were alleging, was the one who was instigating the violence (and the story changed from this being constant to ‘isolated incidents’), she just answered “David Miscavige was not there.” What does that have to do with the question? Nothing. It’s just further evidence that the main agenda was to protect Miscavige’s reputation.

    I was in the SO in the 1990’s and I observed an increasingly prevalent culture of distrust, fear and mistreatment of staff. I didn’t witness any actual violence, but I witnessed things that I can confront now were violations of human rights. Anyone who made mention of improving staff conditions was accused of being “worker-oriented”. I always thought it was an awful pendulum swing to take this concept and turn it into having no regard at all for the worker.

  267. If we run out DM thoroughly enough, will we as-is him? 🙂

  268. Thanks so much Steve. I can feel your searing, white hot intention to sever the head of the viper. Remind me never to piss you off 😉

  269. Freetothink, It likely is true that the “square footage” that the Church owns has doubled in the last 5 years (through five years of crush regging for Idle Orgs).

    But actual membership and meaningful stats?

    No way has it doubled.

  270. Linson reminds me of a “Bobble Head”. ~

  271. marildi, good point. But I don’t think many people would ever connect those dots like you did. They won’t connect them, I think, because how CoS is organized around levels of applied tech, does not fit in most people’s church paradigm i.e., faith based.

    Where I live, it seems a new church starts up every few months because those posted in the upper echelons of a particular church had a major upset with one another. Consequently, some stay with the existing church to run it as they wish while others leave the church, taking other parishoners with them and go off and start a new church that they can then run the way they want to. Then they of course continually say bad things about one another. And, before long there’s an upset in the new church and the cycle repeats itself (it appears ARCXs are very effective in spreading religion). Point is, this happens all the time but no one is questioning the workability of the faith, Jesus or God Almighty.

  272. Maggie,

    If you’re still around, I wanted to join in welcoming you. What’s important here is not whether one has ever been involved in Scientology, but whether one is honest, whether one is supportive of his or her fellow human being, whether one wants true freedom, spiritually, mentally, and physically, for all. You are clearly a member of that group. I hope to hear a lot more from you. 🙂

  273. Thank you for speaking up Moving Forward. Welcome to the Independents!

  274. ED Int looked so rought that I didn’t even notice him! He was invisible.

  275. Welcome, Moving Forward. VWD on accurately evaluating the situation and becoming an Independent. I’d love to hear more of your story, and I look forward to seeing a lot more of you around here!

  276. Dear O.O.,

    Thank you for your validation of my comments. They were straight from the heart. I do believe the biggest barrier to Planetary Clearing is being removed, as we speak. (Part II is underway on CNN.)

    In reference to LRH and his family who have been the worst victims of DM’s abuse, you are asking a question that is akin to opening Pandora’s box. I will try, in this short space to explain:

    I attended the famous, or infamous, Mission Holder’s Conference at the Flag Land Base in December of 1981. I got to hear David Miscavige speak, I got to meet and personally talk to David Mayo, I got to hear Bill Franks talk about being held at gunpoint for a few days; I got to hear a lady named Annie, who introduced herself as a WDC member, acknowledge that yes, Bill Franks was held at gunpoint. I got to hear Norman Starkey talk about Mission All Clear, that is clearing LRH of all lawsuits, as it was explained by him at the conference. But the one thing that I will never forget was DM bragging how he “busted Mary Sue Hubbard”!!!. This was off the post that she had held for many years of being The Guardian or perhaps the Controller for the Church of Scientology. Now, I had been on the Flagship Apollo in 1975, and I had been Diana’s Hubbard’s hostess and personal valet, so to speak, when she visited my org a few years later, and got to know her well. On the Flagship Apollo at the dinner table the Commodore’s table always had a place set for LRH and Mary Sue, complete with fine china, crystal and silverware with their names on placecards, in calligraphy. It was very clear that Mary Sue was revered and honored by Sea Org members. Also, Diana spoke lovingly of her parents and told me personal family things. Before being on the ship, I had a great idea for a location for a Flag Land Base, the LBJ Ranch in Texas, which was for sale at the time, (I knew the owners at that time), and I had written LRH and he said to write to Mary Sue about it. I did, and she wrote me a gracious and kind letter, and little did I know they were already working on a location, and it had different requirements than an inland location. So move forward to 1981 with DM bragging about busting Mary Sue. I could not understand this and was in shock. I signed the petition that was passed around assigning the Sea Org Confusion. I did not know how prophetic that Condition Assignment was until later, and actually relatively recently.

    I received a “burn notice” (SP Declare), almost ten years ago at a time when my stats were highest ever. I had a son who was 10 at the time. For eduacational purposes alone, I allowed him to be with his father, a Scientologist. I received a “disconnect notice” from him by e-mail, which I missed, and then by personal letter, delivered by FEDEX. I started dresearching the Internet to see about my rights as a parent. I was astonished at what I found!! Little by little I found out more and more. I read reports from all over the world. I have read reports about how DM cut the comm lines to LRH when he was in hiding and fed him “bad data” about infiltration into the Church and possibly about Mary Sue. I read reports about how LRH’s will was changed the day before he died. I read reports about how Mary Sue contracted cancer and was watched by DM through “helpers” sent by him, I read reports about how DM sent about 10 or so Sea Org members, mostly men and basically coerced her to sign over rights she had to LRH’s estate for $100,000 and how the children each signed thier rightrs away for $50,000, when the rights they were signing away were worth $400,000,000 to $500,000,000. I read reports about how a top SO bragged about telling Mary Sue “no” to her question of “Has LRH asked about m? I have read reports about Diana Hubbard being coerced into signing her rights as a parent away to the Church. I have read that Mary Sue Hubbard’s name was removed from the Patron’s List of the IAS. I personally had seen her name on the list, where she had donated $40,000. I have read Robert Vaughn’s thoughts that perhaps LRH was murdered. I have heard reports about LRH being left alone to die, all his attendents sent away, including his personal physician, who then spent the next year in Las Vegas.

    Years before that I had met Quentin Hubbard at an event at which he was the guest speaker. At the time my fiancee and I discussed asking him to marry us as our minister. A few months later he was dead, with all different accounts of the mysterious circumstances of his death, ranging from suicide to foul play.

    Before DM, the family was revered, honored, held posts and were an important part of Scientololgy. After DM, it was totally different.

    These thoughts may seem rambling and non-sequitur, I don’t have time to do the ususal editing to place things more intelligently, but it is my opinion that LRH and his family have suffered and were victims of abuse. By googling, anyone can find these things I have read on the Internet. What I have told you here is the tip of the iceberg.

    As an aside, Robert Vaughn Young reported in an affidavit used in a court of law in a SCN court case, that he was ordered by DM to re-instate the disconnection policy and put LRH’s name on the HCO PL and that it was done without LRH’s knowledge. Later I read something else that said DM did this to prevent Scientologists from obtaining services from David Mayo’s Advanced Ability Center.

    The heartbreak and the anguish that my son and I have been through because of disconnection is unimaginable, but probably not even 1/100th of the anguish of Mary Sue Hubbard dying alone of cancer believing that LRH did not care about her enough to even ask about her. For this I will never forgive DM, in addition to what he has done to me and my son.

    Marty, I have FOUR disconnection letters from my son. All or almost all of them specify that I must handle my situation with the Church in order for him to talk to me. I can personally prove to Anderson Cooper and the world that Tommy Davis IS A LIAR, and that disconnection is practiced in present time. The last disconnection latter from my son is dated 11/30/09 at 1:41 A.M and in which he urges me to handle my situation with the Church. The other disconnection letters were from him as a minor child, and the first of those is dated 7/24/05 at 9:40 P.M. He revealed to me about a year ago that that disconnect letter was written under pressure to do so and he apologized profusedly and cried while he was apologizing to me over the phone. I am willing to provide copies of these disconnection letters to show that disconnection still exists and is practiced and is still breaking up families. My sister hid my son from me at her home at Christmas due to my son’s insistence and I was not invited to our family celebration because of this and even my phone calls were ignored. My mother, who is 80 years old, has vascular dementia and is losing her memory, so I had the heartbreaking experience of being shunned by my family and missing what may be my mother’s last Christmas and if it is not her last Christmas, it may very well be the last Christmas where she will recognize her family members. She has extreme short term memory loss, but still recognizes us. This may not be the case next Christmas, if she is still alive. I have never missed a Christmas with my mother and my family. I cried all Christmas day, only to find out on the following day that my son had been in town, and I had missed Chirstmas, my mother, my family, my son and being with all of them for possibly the last time due to David Miscavige and his practices and his abuse of policy.

    So yes, Marty is doing the world, all Scientologists and the future track of all thetans a big service by getting rid of this MONSTER, posing as the “leader” of the Church of Scientology. What he really is is THE TRUE PERVERTER OF THE TECHNOLOGY!!!

    There, I have said my piece, if Marty will publish this, and I feel better, and I am moving on up a little higher. The wall of rage I have felt towards this stiatuion is finally dissipating because THE MONSTER has been exposed to the world.

    THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN, MARTY. YOU HAVE SAVED US ALL.

    WITH ALL MY LOVE, LADY MINN.

    AND YES, WE DO COME BACK, AND WE ARE THE TRUE LOYAL OFFICERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  277. Like I keep saying, the Int Base people are not speaking to the “wogs”, but only to any Co$ members who may view the show.

    It’s purely for *internal* PR to try and convince Churchies not leave, otherwise they wouldn’t even be there.

    Michael A. Hobson

  278. O.K., Jenny blew up on a missed withhold. Anderson asked if there were phones at the base. S.O. members are not allowed to have cell phones. PRFers have no access to the outside world. That’s why she blew up. The good new is she is on a withhold about it, so she knows perfectly well this is wrong. As far as Anderson is concerned, in this game DM is f–ked if he comes forward, and fuc— if he does not. In game terms, that is a check mate. Anderson won this one.

  279. That is some serious black magic. But very interesting to know about. Thanks.

  280. Uh, I meant “rough,” not “rought.”

  281. That woman has a self importance button that keeps her afloat. I was in the S.O. with her and saw it all. I also knew her mum. It’s a black magic virus and if it is on her she had to be special to begin with so let’s let it go. She is over to the dark side in a bad way. We ought to be grateful to be on the outside looking in. Let’s have a little mercy here why not?

  282. Alex!

    Thanks for free pass. I’d PAY to see that. 🙂

    Re: Serious?
    Of course not. Not interested in being serious in this whole thing (“deadly serious activity”, which scientology poses itself as).
    Having fun with it feels like more appropriate attitude. 😉

  283. Wow. “Wog” is a term from the original tech of L. Ron Hubbard.

    It is encouraging to see these brave thought leaders realize that many of the teachings of LRH were applicable only for the beginning of the movement.

    Much like how conservative Jews no longer follow the Old Testament command to stone disobedient children!

    LRH violently demonstrated to humanity a great lesson: our minds are hackable.

    Regardless what view one holds of LRH, this is the “stable datum” I learn from him. I witness this stable datum every time I watch Tommy Davis and other “hacked” beings communicate.

    Yup. We’re hackable.

  284. Lady Minn as a mother my heart goes out to you. Keeping a child from his mother, turning a child against his mother are reprehensible acts.

    If you have a way to contact your son do so, keep communicating. You don’t practice disconnection even if he does. He is still reaching out to you and I’m sure loves you.

  285. Thank you for posting. Hope it becomes a habbit.

  286. “I can personally prove to Anderson Cooper and the world that Tommy Davis IS A LIAR, and that disconnection is practiced in present time.”

    Please do, your words will hit home.

  287. You go Lady !!!

  288. Maybe these shows can be studymaterial for later times.

  289. Dear Natalie,

    Thank you for the advice. Actually, it is excellent advice. I have from time to time e-mailed him. When I phoned him he asked me to erase his phone number from my phone. I keep track of him through his wall on Facebook, and also through family members. When I am concerned about him, I have one of my sisters call him. He loves me very much. He never fails to tell me that in his disconnection letters. I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that he loves me. I got him his first child auditing at our org when he was three, and the last time we were in comm he thanked me for getting him that auditing, saying that he had a great memory because of it. I allowed him to stay with his father so that he could go to Delphi in Oregon as I believed that would be the best education he could obtain on the planet; unfortunately that led to the first disconnection letter. A few years ago, he became associated, through marriage by a step-sibling, to DM himself and is under ENORMOUS pressure to stay disconnected from me. I am handling this in a number of ways.
    The policy I apply and probably the reference to your advice is LRH PL 2 May 1985, RESPONSIBILITY, DEFINITION OF

    RESPONSIBILITY: THE NONRECOGNITION AND DENIAL OF THE RIGHT OF INTERVENTION BETWEEN ONESELF AND ANY BEING, IDEA, MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE, TIME OR FORM, AND THE ASSUMPTION OF FULL RIGHT OF DETERMINATION OVER IT.

    L. RON HUBBARD
    Founder

    Natalie, Thank you again for your heartfelt support, mother to mother; I will take your advice and e-mail my son today and tell him how much I love him. Your acknowledgement has rehabbed what I know to be true. Your comm has made me feel much better.

  290. My take is that AC is not particularly being impartial so much as he is methodically laying it all out in the public view, he’s not pushing anything, he’s letting the players act out the scene and the audience draws its own conclusions. In his demeanor with Marty, et al, he seems relaxed and genuine because they are open, sincere and believable. With dmettes is when he is caught unawares because they do and say things that are not “quite cricket”, so to speak. Of course, because they are speaking from false premises, their lines come off a bit stilted, a bit forced (on occasion quite forced) a bit too too. People watching are not stupid and AC is not stupid. It is being done in a way that will end up with the dmettes nailing the coffin shut on the case because they will run out of stage to stand on and then dm himself will lose it and go too far. It will just take a bit of time (not much) and patience, but this will end up like that because of the nature of the beast.
    Ceileen

  291. Dear Cat Daddy,

    I am thinking about mailing copies of my disconnection letters to Anderson Cooper by overnight service. Can someone give me a good address for FEDEX to deliver them to the right (best) place?

  292. Lady Minn,

    You are more than welcome. Please email me mnnat@aol.com anytime. Very applicable quote.

    Your son is being forced to disconnect from you, no doubt against what he knows to be right. This is another horrific example of how the church breaks up families, and for what? Because you have a “label” that doesn’t mean anything, especially coming from a squirrel group.

    This practice of disconnection is one that needs to stop. How many other children are growing up without a loving parent, how many husbands and wives have lost the person they gave their heart to? How many lifelong friendships have been destroyed because this church is afraid of being found out?

    The church has been busy trying to get people close to me to disconnect. In some cases they succeeded.

    My best friend of 20 years and my goddaughters who I love like my own kids were forced to disconnect or be “guilty of a suppressive act”. Keep in mind I’m not even declared, I just left the church and made it known on this blog.

    My goddaughters were told that if they speak to me their brothers in the Sea Org will loose their “jobs” and they won’t be able to speak to them. In what world is that a choice anyone should have to make? If you continue to speak to a woman who loves you unconditionally, who helped you navigate the stepping stones of womanhood, who you have turned to in times of trouble, if you speak to her, you can’t speak to your own brothers. What kind of person puts that kind of a choice on a teenager or anyone for that matter.

    I’ll tell you what kind of person, someone who has an agenda that has nothing to do with the Aims of Scientology.

    Do these people really believe that your son, my friend, my goddaughters lives will be better because we are not in them? It is sick.

    I’m convinced that only external pressure and exposure of this kind of behavior by the church, is the only thing that will stop it. We have long past the point of self-correction within the C of S.

  293. Actually, a faster way to get them there is to scan and e-mail. What would be best e-mail address for Coop? Still would like to mail hard copies though, so would also like best mailing address.

    Thanks in advance for the info.

  294. Just for the record, Jenny Linson’s statement that DM was not on the base in 2003 is one more bald-faced lie. How do I know? Jeff Hawkins and I were meeting with DM nearly every single day for most of the year, certainly from the spring onwards, as we were working out the marketing and copy for the books and lectures releases. Sometimes there were more than one meeting a day on various submissions we had done. Jenny is flat out full of crap on that point (among others). Marty, on the other hand, I never saw until late in the year and then only occasionally. DM meanwhile was pounding the lines to get the books and lectures approved, and pounding on people verbally and physically to boot.

  295. Oracle, I’ve got to cut you off right here. Norman may be a lot of things but pedophile isn’t one of them. You should see his wife, Maria. She had absolutely one of the best figures I’ve ever seen on a woman. They were, and are, happily married. Have been for decades. And both, when not being suppressed out of existence, great people. Norman, like his brother Owen, is quite a character. He’s not the target, DM is. Out from under DM’s heel, Norman would snap back to battery in no time.

  296. Bingo.

  297. Incase that’s been updated here is a dedicated link to Pt. 1
    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2010/03/29/ac.scientology.pt1.cnn.html

  298. This link is working, entire Anderson Cooper 360 Part 1

  299. Thoughtful, that should be an article. Great distillation and well put.

  300. Wow, Joe Howard, that piece of data was fantastic. You should put that in an affidavit, DM style, and then send it in to Anderson Cooper! Then it would be considered documented evidence which could be used in a court of law. (I am certain that is why DM uses “affidavits”, to imply that a lawsuit could be pending; it is one of his “scare tactics”.) They are also pledges “under oath”, subject to perjury charges, I believe, so it would be interesting for AC 360 to have your affidavit signed under oath. You can get an affidavit form online, I think, and just type in your report and sign it in front of a notary, at any bank, and voila!, you have a statement showing Cooper that Scientologists, not under DM, can play that game, too.

    Whether you do this or not, thanks for showing very specific evidence, that DM and his minions are, once again, lying.

    I have some Knowledge Reports that I will be sending to the Church of Scientology, and they are all going to be done “affiidavit” style. All my future KR’s are going to be done this way, until DM is OUT OF THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  301. Tone 41 – Thank you so much for the beautiful reply 🙂 AC360 is a total WIN for you. HUGE list of faux pas from the Miscavage camp! Marty appears so composed and honest in contrast to the hysterical and dubious responses from the Miscavage people. Too numerous to mention! The most revealing responses came from the wives. Their replies appeared almost coached and I saw no happiness in their eyes. Most alarmed by Mrs Rinder’s comment ~ “……EVERY time he broke his wrist”!!!!!! Just how many times did that poor man break his wrist – bless him? I do hope he is happy now! This is going so well for you. Anderson is intelligent and sharp! He Rocks! 🙂

  302. Thanks Jim.

    I have your email. And we have the Tech. Even with a tiny sliver of Standard LRH Tech, we can have a huge sweeping effect in helping our Native American Friends, establish their Independence.

    If only Scientology is made Free from its’ Cult-Enslaving Culture it has become.

    In turn, they can understand our position, and would help us.

    Which by default, True Scientology operates.
    If Scientology isn’t expanding prolifically, a “Someone” is actively Suppressing it.
    That’s a big “duh!”

    It amazes me, just how PTS our little friends in Mestology are. They have the Tech. And yet it is so!? Mind boggling.

    I’m not a musician Jim. But similarly, I see the future of Scientology, in the pure sense, as free as Music.

    Spanding that whole Technical spectrum too.
    From singing alone in your car; jamming in a Band; to the unique highly technical skills and individuals found in an “Orchestrated” group.

    The ‘Garage-Band’ …The “Garage- Academy”?

    Scientology isn’t as old as Music per-say, but the Garage-Academy seems perfectly “normal” as much as the ‘Garage-Band’ in my mind.
    And makes me smile.

    Jim, you might like this 1967 discussion on Indian Affairs. The Native struggle for Independence lacks only in Standard Tech.

    http://www.nfb.ca/film/encounter_with_saul_alinsky

  303. Maggie,

    I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I just saw your reply to me here. As I said elsewhere, don’t leave! Please don’t mind anyone who gets ornery. We need people like you here. 🙂

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s