One of the reasons I call Dave Lubow Lil’ Dave or Mini-Dave is that historically he is brought in in times of desperation for David Miscavige when Black Ops are called for in his mind. For many years we made a conscious effort to keep a tight reign on investigations so that no felonies were committed or overly aggressive actions were taken that might indicate we had adopted or condoned the Black Ops days of the GO. That was for survival reasons, since the public and courts had been given a heavy dose of Guardian’s Office Black Ops through the release of tens of thousands of documents by the DC Federal District Court in the late seventies.
But, when Miscavige’s own goose was being cooked, and his demands for retalitation and silencing became overpowering, and post removals became imminent, we brought in Dave Lubow. Lubow is a creep to be sure. But, he is a perfect 1.1 which is qualification number one for a spy or Black Ops operative. In many ways he is the perfect duplicate of Miscavige himself. That is, clueless when it comes to fundamental human virtues like love and forgiveness and empathy. But utterly ruthless and devilishly clever when it came to manipulation, black propaganda, and destroying lives by any means necessary.
His first major assignment was to infiltrate the Las Vegas crowd in the early nineties. Miscavige was obsessed with Terri Gamboa, former Commodore’s Messenger and ED Author Services Inc. Lubow lead a double – or triple or quadruple – life in Las Vegas, California and Australia during that op that lasted for several years. Lubow lived with and befriended the Gamboas, the Gradys, Mark Fisher and others while doing all he could to pursuade them not to attack Miscavige.
When Bob Minton of Lisa McPherson Trust fame had his attorneys on the verge of putting Miscavige square into the middle of the McPherson case (where he firmly belonged) Mike Rinder and I were personally assigned by Miscavige to run Lubow on a no-expenses-spared international operation to cave Minton by threatening his money. Lubow created a number of identities, trotted around the globe creating a web of third party about Minton to the point where we actually had a large portion of Minton’s money frozen in a Swiss bank account. Unfortunately for Minton, and regardless of his later humanitarian motives, his fortune was in fact amassed by less than ethical means.
By that time – early 2000s, Lubow had made so much money committing overts on behalf of Miscavige that it became relatively easy to convinced him to begin taking Scientology courses and auditing – with the not so subtle hint that because of the nature of his work he could not be trusted unless he was firmly on board. Considering himself a “Scientologist” (Miscavige style) created the perfect terrorist. A man with absolutely no scruples when came to taking out Miscavige’s enemies by any means necessary. A black ops specialist on a radical religious mission.
Since I do not have large Swiss bank accounts nor the backing of well-heeled enemies of Scientology to draw upon, Lubow’s tactics with respect to me are different.
Miscavige had Lubow steer clear of me for a year and one half, correctly reasoning that I was not susceptible to either of the only two missiles in Miscavige’s arsenal – pressure to the point of caving, followed by pay off. Instead he had Lubow concentrate for months on those close to me – Mike Rinder, each and every one of my pc’s and pre-OTs. Bless each and every one of their hearts, not a one caved and turned. And so, quite naturally Miscavige and Lubow (the spineless cowards that they are) are now targetting Monique Rathbun.
It is the worst of the tormented world between the ears of David Miscavige. Miscavige’s psychotic obsession with breaking up 2D relationships combined with his favorite Black Ops specialist.
So far, aside from rekindling and strengthening a number of old, local friendships of mine that had sort of gone dormant during my 20 months of whistleblowing, Dave Lubow and the Black Ops Squad, on behalf of Dave Miscavige, did the following recently:
a) Surveilled Mosey’s ex-husband’s (a man whom I have never met) home and photographed his current wife coming and going, third partied his ex-wife to the point where he felt compelled to defend her.
b) Told Mosey’s current associates that her ex-husband had her surveilled during their divorce several years ago (before Mosey ever knew me). A manufactured LIE, creating bonds between Mosey’s past and present associates.
c) Told Mosey’s associates about my mother’s suicide nearly fifty years ago, along with the rest of the Freedom Mag and anti-Marty sites material, and warned there is every reason to worry about Mosey’s well-being with me.
d) Expressed the intention (threatened) to contact Mosey’s immediate family with the same litany.
AND
e) Said that there is reason to question the validity of the marriage of Mosey and I. Specifically claiming that Michael J Rinder is not a “legitimate minister”.
Now, you’ve probably heard many stories about Miscavige’s obsession with breaking up 2D couples. I am not the first he did it to while in the church and then continued to pursue it after I left. I am privy to documentation that he spent months and huge sums of church parishioner donations trying to break up Marc and Claire Headley after they left the church (something he attempted to do to them for years while they were inside the church).
Miscavige has Mini-Dave challenging the validity of our legally performed and certified marriage. Pursuant to the Cold War era intelligence tech he operates on, Miscavige simply spreads the lie, full well knowing it is a lie.
Now, I’ve been waiting for the appropriate moment to share this. Mosey and I never intended to have a big, public wedding (here it is in the event you missed it, https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/back-in-the-saddle/) . There was really one reason for being so overt about it. And Miscavige’s latest psychotic behavior serves as the perfect prompter to say why that occurred. That is line 23b of the marriage certificate, which asks for the name and title of the person performing the ceremony. The answer in bold print is, MICHAEL J. RINDER, MINISTER OF INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY. That certificate has long-since been signed, sealed and delivered by the Clerk of the Pinellas County Florida Court to us in Texas. It is the first of a number of precedents being put in place to establish the absurdity and futility of Miscavige attempting to use COMMERCIAL law to dictate who may or may not refer to themselves as Scientologists.
Our marriage is a legal, certified FACT. But, love is a far stronger bond than any authority can acknowledge or bestow. No matter how many PI’s little Hitler hires to spread no matter how much black propaganda to no matter how many people he will not change those FACTS. All he accomplishes by doing so is to alienate people (and boy are they creeped out by Miscavige’s crew).
That Miscavige is reduced to such childish tactics, demonstrates three things in my estimation:
a) He remains fixated on personal destruction of peoples’ second dynamics.
b) He is one of those low-life terrorists you see in the movies; you know, the ones that grab the protagonist’s wife and puts a knife to her throat when his back is to the wall.
c) He does not have the balls to challenge the legal FACT that his agents claim is not a fact. What he doesn’t understand is that when he has Mini-Dave do that to an audience that has not been made captive (kool aid drinkers) he not only strengthens the bond he seeks to break, he makes enemies by the dozens.
Do not get me wrong, I am not complaining. One reaps what one sews. I helped to create these monsters.
I think all I can do now is to do what I can to bring about as-isness to that creation.
So, I’ll continue with attempting to impart truths as it is truth that brings about as-isness.
Memo to the two Daves:
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. – Bible, New Testament, 1 John 4:18
In case you can’t wrap your wits around that one, a simpler memo to Dave (s):
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
“So, I’ll continue with attempting to impart truths as it is truth that brings about as-isness.”
I appreciate that Marty.
It does a soul good.
Damn, Seal can wail!! That was awesome..
Marty. I like how you deal with things. You keep it real and you look at things from the philosophical view while still not knuckling under.
You are an impressive Being!
🙂
Tony
Marty, I haven’t even read the post above but I wanted to tell you that I do love you, man, for what you are and what you are doing. You gave me back a purpose even through a distance. You brought me back with friends and fighters of the recent past who I have seen see the same as I do. You did a lot Marty. You are NOT a hero but what you did is heroic for me, man. You just communicated for the last 1 1/2 years no matter what. I will remember this buddy, that I have a friend in you and you do in me. Thanks dude, carry on man, you ARE NOT alone buddy, the org board is f…ing forming up, man, and people are helping left and right. And more will come because We (=not “we” as such, but “we” as to what we represent, the Theta Force) ARE Un(f…cking)mockable, buddy and now at this TIME in the MEST Universe you ARE (sorry buddy) the DRIVING FORCE of that Theta Force on this Planet.
Through this blog, Marty, we have not just whispered it but we have screamed out loud LRH message on Standard Tech. I salute you and let the f.cking PIs get some money to continue their pathetic existence on this prison planet. I salute you from Prison Sector Greece. Y0ur friend Theo.
an SP, on being discovered to be one, goes completely crazy. Keep on truckin’ buddy.
And as I am reading the post I see you are unfolding your heart to us, so do that, buddy, we can audit ya, now.
Miscavige is desperate and pathetic.
He’s relying on his old circuitry, breaking up relationships, without bothering to notice that there is no susceptibility to this strategy on the part of you and Mosey.
He must have finally lost it. He’s standing on the street corner, dirty and disheveled, drinking out of a paper bag and screaming at invisible opponents. Somebody tell that man to put on some pants.
Marty, I did read your post. Thank you for communicating on those matters which have been plaguing your heart for years under DM’s terror. I do understand you and as I said: We ALL audit ya now, buddy. We audit Ya right here and right now.
You are as-ising the poisonous stuff.
On Monique and You and your marriage and Mike being your Minister and your marriage being legal or not, it’s not Miscavige’s problem. What the f.ck is he doing now?
Is this a Church/Applied Philosophy leader?
Come on LURKERS, every fucking time Marty writes about one such stupid thing, ONE of you should come out.
So, please do. DO YOU SEE what IS going on?
DO you think Marty should be going through this? So, do come out guys and FORM UP THIS INDEPENDENTS ORG BOARD.
And yes, the marriage IS valid because we as Scientologists consider it valid.
Considerations are OVER Mechanics Dave. We are re-creating our own Univserse and you just stick to this MEST one. Gaiagnostic, in case you didn’t see it, made you a nice flyer we are going to print out and share it among us in the future.
I hear the impending sounds of a “Death Rattle”. Is that you Dave?
Keep it up Marty. Apparently DM’s new management policies don’t include an understanding of safe pointing and P/R area control, which you have aptly put in place. Nice work.
25:
“There was something formeless and perfect
before the universe was born.
It is serene. Empty.
Solitary. Unchanging.
Infinite. Eternally present.
It is the mother of the universe.
For lack of a better name,
I call it the Tao.
“It flows through all things,
inside and outside, and returns
to the origin of all things.
“The Tao is great.
The universe is great.
Earth is great.
Man is great.
These are the four great powers.
“Man follows the earth.
Earth follows the universe.
The universe follows the Tao.
The Tao follows only itself.”
Tao Te Ching
Lao Tzu
Seems like Miscavige delusionally thinks that ALL people ultimately want back into the church of MESTOLOGY and that these childish, out-dated tactics will work on true indies.
Not!
We are with you. His tool of destroying the 2D is to remove stable datums to throw you into a spin and make you more controllable. It was tried on me in the SO and didn’t work. That is the reason we left.
Love to the both of you.
“I helped to create these monsters. I think all I can do now is to do what I can to bring about as-isness to that creation.”
Thank you for this. ❤
DM has hit a new low…
However, I am sure he will find even lower lows to conquer and for us to explore and admire as he continues his quest to waste as much church money on these nutjob missions of his.
Even if you were not “legally married”, his attempts to belittle that show just what a lower class, mindless, backwards thinking little pissant of a leader he is.
How anyone can consider themselves a spiritually advanced, forward thinking person, and still be connected to Camera Boy is one for the books.
Centurion
Wow Marty, this little prick is so obsessed with you I don’t know how the hell he can get anything done. Well he needs to put his attention back on himself and how old he is starting to look. Time for another face lift DM.
Marty and Mosey you have my total support.
Love Carol
Vell, Herr Doktor. Even though your FrankencreationminiDave seems to be hurling some very sour lemons, that’s a tasty lemonade you’ve made. Sweetened with pure Scientology analysis, understanding and handling. No Koolaid sold at this pop stand, folks.
Franken…Dave should consider one thing – you added the bolts to the neck of the creation. You know where it’s nuts are, too.
Marty,
What amazes me the most in all of this last year cross flowing your actions, David/Davies reactions and OSAs actions, is the amount of enemies they make and are willing to make on a weekly basis. Enemies when the mission of the church is supposed to be building islands of sanity and a general clearing of the planet.
For instance: I’m in an Italian family and Italians believe that family comes first over anything else. I handled all of the negative fallout from 60 Minutes, 20/20, Readers Digest and so forth throughout the 70’s and got a lot of my family thinking favorably about Scientology. Lately OSA had my children disconnect from me and several weeks ago my brother asked me how my daughter is, his favorite niece. He has sent her emails but she doesn’t answer him. I told him what happened and that my kids won’t talk to me anymore and probably also disconnected from him because they were forced, by my Church to disconnect. My brother went ballistic. There was a family reunion shortly after and the word spread like wildfire that my Church caused my kids to hate me. Now a few hundred Martiniano’s want to burn the Church down. I’ll never be able to repair it, never. They will never trust the Church again. And this type of thing happens on a weekly basis, just making thousands of enemies so one won’t endure the rath of one little punk-assed mini-wannabe false, cameraboy I-want-to-play-ruler that no one can seem to stand up to.
That OSA cannot spot this and rectify if is astounding to me. They got to know this is not the mission of Scientology. And because of all of the enemies being made and that there is not that many degrees of separation from these families and the world in general, it has to be killing the Church.
Ben Shaw, Linda Hamill and other OSA execs, it is best to re-examine your lines and who you are running with because the theta universe is not going to be kind to Dear Leaders friends when it all ends – and it will end. Evaluate your position against First Policy “MAINTAIN FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PUBLIC.” Declaring everyone and enforcing disconnection is not doing that. Quite the opposite.
ML Tom
OK, VE Dwarfie, BRING IT ON! WE ARE REDY FOR YOU!
Marty,
I’m not sure I have anything to say after this article. That’s because I’m sitting in complete joy, widely F/Ning, and in amazement at the aesthetic as it cuts the ribbon of the Daves.
You get first pass through the Home Pool, with a rising 20 pound, fresh, silver Atlantic salmon, and my favorite and secret fly, on a fall day, leaves ablaze and spice in the air. Followed by a Cuban cigar and a glass of demerara rum.
Sweet Fancy Moses 🙂
Good one!!
I actually think your family’s reaction is sane. Can’t you protest instead with that 100 Martiniano’s.
“MICHAEL J. RINDER, MINISTER OF INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY”
Hell ya bitches! Eat that one! I love it. 😀
I’m gonna hold you to that one Jim. Can’t wait.
Freedom of Religion for all. Purrrfectly played. I wonder how they are going to spin that on there Religious FREEDOM Watch website.
Now a few hundred Martiniano’s want to burn the Church down.
Tom, tell your clan not to worry, the Dwarf has been doing a pretty good job of exactly that. All by himself he’s managed to burn it right to the ground and not just figuratively. Remember when people were supposed to burn their old books? Remember someone posted about the tapes being cut up?
Without standard tech what’s the dwarf got left? Buildings and slaves.
Maybe that’s all he wants out of it
Thanks, but don’t come out on my account, we all have different levels of responsibility for what is now before us, or behind us.
That the “church” steps (stomps) between loved ones is why I started speaking out and exposing their abuse. It’s wide spread. I’ve heard a number of horror stories along this line – enough to fill another book!
Well, it didn’t work when they tried to separate me from my mom – who is now OUT, along with my step-dad. And it didn’t work when they tried to convince my husband’s family that I was the reason they were torn apart and if they’d just get rid of me, everything would be rosy again.
That’s never going to happen – love is stronger than any amount of threats, leverage and the concocted lies being shoved up people’s butts to try to sway their feelings and turn them against close family and friends.
Thank you so much for the continuing expose, Marty.
Love you to and Mosey,
Amy
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” — Yoda
Marty, Sometimes you come up with a doozy and this one sure is a doozy.
And it makes my blood boil thinking about the years I spent at Gold trying to be a good contributing staff member trying to make things work and never getting over the frustration of not being able to do so. I didn’t have a chance. With all this SHIT that was going on unbeknownst to me I was actually just contributing to an outright criminal activity and didn’t have a clue. Keep shedding the light. One day soon it will reach the ones we left behind.
Marty, I have been a way for a bit but wanted to add your comm if I might.
Initially, I wanted to add to the ack re your website. In the last 24 hours, I have come to find out 4 important people to me and Scn are all over your website and you have provided a continuing platform form for communication and relief. And we are in LIVE comm about it!
I have referred to this movement at various times as a groundswell that continues to rise- but some of it is visible above the surface and some is amassing below. It is far bigger than can be estimated in my opinion. My daughter and I have helped you with providing LRH materials from “under the radar” and my suggestion for those that choose to remain under the radar is to take a more active role in whatever fashion they choose. There is an LRH tape entitled “The Wrong Thing to Do is Nothing”- unfortuntely the IAS utilized it to suck money from people, but it is a landmark lecture. We took more satisfaction in getting those materials to you than any “dono” cycle, because it was the right thing to do. And it helped the cause.
HCO B “OT Maxims” states that ” A way to improve your control or another’s is to do it on a gradient”. So my opinion is to ask yourself what is the next gradient to apply if you believe in what is being carried out here on this forum?
Once again, Thanks Marty. And to those assisting you directly or indirectly.
Thanks for posting this Marty. It helps a lot.
What is DM’s Achilles Heel? You know probably better than anyone, but I think it is “Truth Revealed”. He is trying desperately to hold onto his power and position. He is living the good life hob knobbing with all his celebrity friends. He is sitting on a mountain of cash and uses it as he sees fit, while abusing those underneath him and his perceived “enemies” on the outside.
Your blog is such a great tool for those on the outside as well as the inside. Thousands of people are reading your blog everyday and the more you and others tell their stories and reveal the truth about what is going on, DM gets weaker and more people leave.
There are multiple viewpoints to any story. Comparing notes is key. I was talking with Jesse Prince the other day for the first time in years. He read my story on facebook and it made him remember things from his point of view that he hadn’t looked at before. We then compared notes together and have a greater understanding of what crimes Dave Lubow and DM have been involved in.
Same thing happened with you and I. When we talked, all of sudden I found out about Ferris Khan and what he had been up to for 11 years and was able to expose him and cut him out of my life.
That is why DM attempts to keep us all separated. He doesn’t want everyone comparing notes so that the full true picture is out there.
Bob Minton had skeletons in his closet I guess regarding his finances and he held protecting that over his integrity in the Lisa McPherson case. Lubow got leverage on him, straight out of Mission Earth.
Well what is the leverage we have on DM? What is he most afraid of losing? What does he most want to keep concealed?
Revealing those truths to the proper authorities and to the public will continue to make his life miserable and he will make some huge mistakes which can bring him down.
Ayeeechihuahua, I forgot to mention that the Deadliest Woman of the Water, Monique Rathbun, is of course going ahead of us on the Pool. I will watch in wonder as she conjures the beast to the Secret Fly. Poetry in motion and a twinkle in her eye.
Mark you are absolutely right about ‘truth revealed’ being the solvent. Truth be told, the majority of church expenditures are not for MEST these days. They are devoted to covering up the truth and destroying the purveyors of it. I lost sight of the imporantance of the Ferris Khan matter. For those not in the know, Khan was Lubow’s successor in Las Vegas and was literally on Mark’s lines attempting to prevent his speaking with the St Petersburg Times on DM’s dime.
Thank your. Your provision of Source materials was incredibly important to me and my continued survival. Yes, every little action added to every other little action results in an insurmountable tide.
Steve, I get your view. Sometimes I lose sight of what the truth means to folk who were in fact kept in the dark about how much of the money you all helped make was put to dark, nefarious uses.
Amy, you just reminded me. I was wracking my head last night trying to remember another recent example of DM continuing to try to drived wedges between couples who had already left. And it was you and Mat. Christ, just a year ago OSA agents were out trying to turn Mat and his mother and father and sisters against Amy. Bless you and Mat and your family for standing strong. I forget about the storm they attempted to create on that side of your family.
Marty, thanks for writing this up and letting the world know what has happened. I do have a question. Who is the attorney that hires David Lee and pays him. Is it just one attorney or is his method of payment spread around to different attorney firms. Is he paid cash under the table? How do these snakes get paid? I think it would be helpful to expose the attorneys behind the PI’s because behind them is DM. If you still remember, please expose the names of all of the attorneys and PI’s involved in black ops over the years. Exposing the crimes of these the private investigators and associating them with thier handlers will begin a road map to the network of scum they use to destroy people.
Clearly, DM has underestimated Mosey in trying to subvert this 2D.
Jesse, Eliot Abelson pays him. As you know that is simply a front. OSA runs him directly – most likely Linda Hammil. It is the old drill, brief the PI, THEN have a wink, wink, innuendo-laced comm cycle that tacity authorizes the most criminal of behavior. That way Eliot and Lubow keep the gravy train running and Linda and co can report “it is all cleared with the attorneys.”
Virgil,
Thank you for sharing about you family, after I left the Church, six more family members are fallowing me. The Church is dead, and soon you going to have yours children back.
Karen, that is what her ex-husband said to the PIs:
PI: Marty doesn’t work and Monique supports him.
ex: You don’t know Mo.
PI: We fear Marty is physically abusing Monique.
ex: You don’t know Mo.
Marty to PI: Bo, you don’t know Didley.
And the skid marks are showing. Hey, is that ‘Ol Grandad in the paper bag?
BTW – Loved your story on Jeff’s site. Beautifully written and sadly moving.
Dear Marty – yes, and it’s still happening to this day – trying to get at my family. They just had my aunt as their “keynote speaker” at a Writers of the Future event. She didn’t know it had anything to do with Scientology or she wouldn’t have gone. They just told Mat’s brother and sisters when they pleaded to let the family come together due to a medical emergency, that it was not an option — but if Amy & Mat were separated and Mat got back in “good standing”, then maybe. They must not know Mat very well. They don’t have a chance in hell of EVER manipulating him or convincing him to re-connect with that sick, controlling, blood-sucking CULT. Never going to happen.
Another less recent example of DM’s obsession with breaking up 2Ds was that of Vaughn and Stacy Young. He was obsessed with breaking them up while they were both still in, and continued that obession after they left. Ironically, in the end, it was Bob Minton that finally broke them up. DM must have relised that. But the lengths DM went to over the years in and out to break them up (mid-80’s to mid ’90s) shows this is not a new low, but SOP.
If Robert Vaughn Young were still alive, I am pretty sure he would have been able to add a Lebouw story as well.
Tao
This brought tears to my eyes.
lunamoth
MICHAEL J. RINDER, MINISTER OF INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
Have you people read that ??????????????
INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY !!!!!!!!!!!
I repeat it:
INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY !!!!!!!!!!!!
and again:
INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY !!!!!!!!!
Marty, this was the BIGGEST UNDERSTATEMENT you ever did in your whole whole track time.
I repeat again for those who didn’t get it:
INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
Marty, please send me an membership application form !!!!!!!!
🙂 .) 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
And Miscavige will reap what he sows. Bring it on!
Marty,thank you for putting a target on Eliot Ableson. Yes I know the scam of OSA controlling the PI’s but this is not what they want known. We all know there is no way for you or Mike R to defend yourselves against the daily onslaught of PI maddness. However you do have a resouce that is greater than DM and his army if you use it. That resouce is the US Government police agencies. Let me explain. For anyone out there, if you are being harrassed by DL or any of his ilk the first thing you need to do is file a police report for harrassment. Take the reports and file a bar complaint on Elliot. You do not have to make excuses for Eliott and say it’s all OSA because that would be illegal for them to do. So the resonsibility lies squarely with Eliott, that’s how any agency investigation will percieve it. We know how the scam is set up to keep PI activity at arms lenght from Scn. If DM’s back gets put against the wall he’ll just say the PI,s were being handled through attorneys to limit liability for him and Scn. So please throw DL and EA all the way under the bus. If DL and EA get investigated who do you think they will throw under the bus? You and Mike should file bar complaints galore against these people and you should encourage any of your family members to file police reports on harrasment and black pr ops. The thing with filing reports with the proper agency ensures someone will start looking in DM,s direction and we both know what kind of panic sets in for him when that happens.
What a bunch of miserable pathetic weasels, cowards and snakes.
Messsage to DM and your band of thugs: We won’t back down!
DM is compulsive. That is his major issue. He cannot stop himself from attacking. Each plan, each attack makes us stronger and him weaker. Each lie he creates puts another wall between his own self and reality, making him nuttier. Truth wins, lies fail.
Luna:
4
“The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the external void:
filled with infinite possibilities
“It is hidden but always present.
I don’t know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God.”
Tao Te Ching
Lao Tzu
Nameste!
Had to laugh at the recent Freedom mag as it was very bizarre. It’s supposed to target an external public, but the recent issue featuring Mike Rinder said more about the author than it does about Mike. The slant about a 55 year man having a relationship with a 30 year old woman, or <> “woman young enough to be his daughter” is a bit glutz, and actually gives Mike street cred. People I have relayed the story to say, ‘Go Mike!’
Please do what Jesse says.
This seems as good a post as any to write my open communication to my local OSA – OSA EUS.
To the CO OSA EUS, Tim Lomis, and his beautiful wife Heather…get out NOW. This does not end well for you if you stay. Tim, take Heather and go have some kids and enjoy your life. Stop letting the overts stack up day after day. Stop being someone you are not. Tim, you have a responsibility to your wife who doesn’t know as well as you do what this whole game is about and you DO. Go back to being a musician. You know you are just being a bull shit artist right now. Knock if off.
The person I admired the most while I was in, you, is the person I have lost the most respect for and now you’ve pulled Julie in to the mess as well. Evil.
You, Jackson, Bert, etc. yada, yada, yada, can all keep telling your lies and ya know what? That will NEVER make them true. I see you. You are a good man Tim but if you keep protecting a psychopath, YOU LOSE. Who cares how bad you think you will look? Who cares how completely out of character others will think you are behaving. I had to do THE SAME THING to follow my own personal integrity. What is so precious about your neck? GET OUT NOW.
BTW, where’s my Golden Rod?
Marty, I had a thought last night. I know about 5 people off the top of my head who were forced to leave the SO by OSA because one or both of their parents were “attackers”.
In these cases, the parent was NOT making a stink about their son/daughter being in the SO, these SO members were NOT minors, were NOT connected to the parent who was “attacking” and did NOT WANT to leave, but were made to. These were highly productive ethical SO members, not ethics bait.
Yet, Mike’s kid remains in the SO. WTF?
Jesse, Thanks for the sound advice. You know you are preaching to the choir.
We don’t need no stinking application forms.
Here is perhaps the most frightening aspect. How could they not know Mat and Amy, and what they are made of, after all of those years of service. It boggles the mind.
Marty,
You have become a living example of Consideration being senior to Mechanics.
I’m so glad that you have this wonderful being (Mosey)to share your adventure with, and I thank you for sharing it with us as well.
I am sure that by your actions, countless thousands have woken up to the fact that the “sacrifice yourself for the greater good” rationale does not work and only results in the individual in question becoming another sacrifice.
By the same measure, the rationalization “We all need to make it or none will make it” is also a fallacy. You are living proof of that.
We all are going to make it, regardless of any consequences we suffer. As seen thus far, negative attention from the church only serves to make one stronger.
Also, if anyone needs help with anything, we (personally and as a group) will give it as we can – without strings attached. This is what makes Independents beautiful and great.
Thanks for continuing to put this there for us.
Scott
First, they are deployable assets for Miscavige. He evaluates these situations very cooly before flying off into his rock slam sessions. Watch Anderson Cooper 360 History of Violence series. Four ex wives. And realize, after the wives performance DM was seen exchanging high fives with them.
This is dead right. And file them in every state that he’s registered in.
I am not 100% sure on this but I do believe Vaugh had passed away before Stacy and Bob hooked up but maybe Jessie can answer since he was there.
Just saying.
Hey Jim you should come up to the Miramichi for Salmon fishing. World reknown and great hospitality to boot! 🙂
Amen, Brother.
Marty,
Thanks for the most revealing post – I had wondered what brought the nastiness and GO Op basis back, that Dear Leader had condemned earlier when he “disbanded” it.
Mark, I do agree with you as the truth is being revealed every day here and brought on the next gradient of nefarious nastiness about.
On the post for today: …”But, when Miscavige’s own goose was being cooked, and his demands for retalitation and silencing became overpowering”… As a Chef I do like to cook things so they are perfectly done. What was the recipe at the time? Perhaps if this were totally duplicated and continued the goose would be nicely golden browned and totally finished. (Though probably totally inedible.)
Terri knows that he’s not the anointed one and tons of financial and money making schemes Dear Leader was involved in, as well as control of Norman Starkey, the LRH trustee.
You’re right about preaching to the choir, but the choir has gotten so large lately I just want all of us to sing the same song! : )
Thanks Jesse,
That empowers the receivers of the nastiness to put them back at cause if they weren’t already.
Steve,
I understand the frustration and I understand how revelations like this can stir emotion.
You contributed to much more than DM’s wacked bs. I for one thank you for being there and pushing along side of me to the future. I mean that.
“MICHAEL J. RINDER, MINISTER OF INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY”
Instantly happy. ♫♫♫ ♪ ♪ ♫ to my ears
☼
♥
Lead on my man. Pretty soon I’m gonna get my bounce on.
Marty, do clear up exactly “don’t come out on my account” as I don’t get the full meaning of the phrase, though I have an idea.
You are right on the responsibilities we ALL share. My responsibility is and will be to re-establish confidence on Scientologists re the Admin Tech and how it can be used for what we are doing.
I never meant to not take responsibility in my life. But 10 years ago when I gave it ALL within the SO I saw an iron wall there. Well, now it’s a different time of course and I believe that each one of us can be doing different things and helping in different ways.
Please do clear up the above expression for me. Thanks
LO It keeps you a moving target instead of a sitting duck.
So David Lubow became a member of DM’s ever shrinking band? Ha, serves that evil little worm right. If I had not seen this on your web site I would not have believed it.
As a former employee of Bob Minton I can say we were certainly aware of Lubow. Ray Emmons had a fat file on him that was added to frequently. Too bad it was never in our means to go after him. Minton had money but the supply was not endless. We had the right people, a number of former police detectives and FBI agents who hated Scientology had contacted us, but we simply lacked the recourses. And of course at the end of the day would it have been worthwhile to spend that kind of money to send David Lubow to prison for a few years, even if we were successful in uncovering his illegal activities? Probably not, a guy like him might have enjoyed jail. With so many kindred spirits to meet on close terms he might have felt right at home. -Bob Peterson.
Yes!!! Music to my ears.
“We don’t need no stinking baaajes!”
Amy, Marty,
It boggles understanding and any sense of decency to fathom how the “Church” had the gall to have your Aunt as a keynote speaker at “Writers of the Future” when they have been trying to sabotage and undermine her family behind her back?
Unless the right hand of the “church” doesn’t know what the left is doing? Do the “Church” staff people running Writers of the Future who booked your aunt know what goes on behind the front? Do they know what OSA operatives have been wreaking on the hearts and lives of your family and friends?
The travesty is the lack of devoted sincerity to the actual purpose, in this case fostering writing and writers.
It begs the question: Have any of those “Writers of the Future” made it into the future beyond being used in a pony show that has a different agenda? Would a real writer who actually blazed frontiers of thought and communication be welcomed?
I can fill in some of the stories of what was done to Vaughn and Stacy. I was in touch with them throughout the 90s. Stacy and I were twins on the RPF in the early 80s and graduated together. I knew Vaughn from the mid 70s.
Dave Lubow was sent up to Seattle and organized up protests in front of the Youngs home calling them bigots and other nasty things. They also contacted their landlord and neighbors.
Reports were filed with Health Department authorities accusing the Youngs of having diseased cats that were carrying AIDS. The Youngs were involved in rescuing homeless cats, getting them spayed and neutered and then adopted out to good homes.
One of the Youngs dogs was stolen and when it escaped and was found, all of it’s teeth had been kicked in and and the dog walked with a bad limp from being abused.
Finally, Lubow tried to get Stacy Young committed to a Mental Hospital against her will as “mentally unstable.”
When I visited them in Seattle, they were constantly tired and worn out from the constant harrassment, but they stuck to their guns. Vaughn correctly predicted years ago that the internet would lead to Scientology and DM’s downfall, and he is being proven correct.
Stacy later got turned along with Minton, but Vaughn and Stacy were early voices out there taking the risk of speaking the truth and exposing what was going on when it wasn’t a very popular thing to do and carried heavy harrassment.
I was on the ship when this particular series of Ops were carried out. However, I acknowledge I learned of them when I returned. And it was touted as cred for Lubow’s trustworthiness, leading to his use on the Minton Op, which I did run.
The qualfier of something being slander (a crime) is: the act of spreading things that are untrue, and also irrelevant and spread with an intent to harm.
Marty, Mosey, this is clearly slander and stalking as a black ops, and that is against the law.
I am so sorry, beyond the principle of the thing, but personally because I know Marty and Mosey as good persons who sincerely want and to, and DO, help others in magnitude. Monique, with works in human rights, you were doing that even before you met Marty. I know how many people Marty has helped, beyond me personally, and I know his respect and service to the liberation and evolution of thought, and to L. Ron Hubbard.
One reason they are targeting Mosey is actually explained in a Scientology reference, about hitting at the person close to a power. What is the reference that comes to mind that sheds some light on the basic cowardice and strategy?
I wish the Organization behaved as the Church they purport to be. But they have altered the writings of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard. They treat persons as disposable commodities, and with the disdain and arrogance that they are playing chess with broken pieces. 😦 A gross underestimation, as well as a travesty against life.
The purpose for the black ops against Marty and Monique is pretty obviously not defending L. Ron Hubbard or a religion. It’s defending who knows what!! I’m seriously concerned about the mental state and responsiblity of any corporate decisions to allocate the obscene amount$ of money in attacking good people who just want to live and grow and help others. WHY? Certainly not compassion and helping others. Certainly not uplifting the planet.
Theo, we all have different levels of responsibility in handling that which we helped to create. Obviously, I have a higher level of responsibility than most because I virtually created immunity for the monster over the course of most of my adult life. So, because I am getting hammered by the Ops squad I helped create I do not believe translates into an obligation for others – who perhaps had no clue about what Miscavige and crew were and are up to with their money – to stand up to “support Marty.” I think it helps correct the problem, I think it is an honorable thing to do, and think it assures it will be corrected. But, I don’t think it necessarily creates an obligation or duty for most. Capice?
Thank you for your post and the good work you’ve done
aaaaarrrrrrgggggg!!!!!! I get the image of a beautful space pirate riding a rocket like Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove. In a good way, of course.
Some of you blog writers here have been surprised about OSA creating enemies – which is most obviously contrary to the goals of Scientology.
Don’t assume that OSA are some good Scientologists just working in another department.
OSA are quite the opposite of what the philosophy of Scn represents. I have yet to meet one of them who is not (a) a fierce fanatic (b) considering himself more important than any other staff (c) and who is on a full blown control obsession and (d) loaded with justifications.
Let me tell you one factual exampe from my country :
Once upon a time there was a field auditor and FSM. He happened to meet a journalist. He gave him a session. The journalist liked it – and wrote a very nice and quite big newspaper article about it !
OSA saw this and became very interested in this field auditor.
Now you might think : “well, of course, OSA wanted to know what the successful actions of this field auditor had been. Because these could be used to procure more good press !”
Oh no. OSA reprimanded that field auditor severely – because he had not followed a policy that you have to ignore reporters !
That’s the way the OSA cookie crumbles. THEY are most important and THEY control what’s happening !
Davey boy has a long history of breaking up 2D’s.
David Miscavige sent his own wife Shelly away
David Miscavige forced his own parents to divorce.
David Miscavige ordered all RTC staff to divorce their spouses or be busted out of RTC and posted in a lower org.
David Miscavige ordered that there were to be no more marriages at the Int base.
David Miscavige ordered Warren McShane to divorce his wife Marcella (Marcy) of 30 years who worked in the Snr C/S Int Office. Their son Sean McShane left the Sea Org and neither Warren nor Marcella can speak to him.
Laurisse Stuckenbrock was ordered by DM to divorce her husband Uwe after he blew from the base. Uwe was sent to the RPF in PAC and later died.
Greg Wilhere was made to disconnect from his son Darius who was sent off to Africa. Darius’ wife Becky was made to divorce Darius once he was offloaded from the Int Base. This whole family was torn apart by DM.
Carol Bourke was ordered to divorce her husband Thomas Bourke who was a Gold staff member. They had been married for over 20 years.
Darnelle Bloomberg and David Bloomberg were forced by DM to divorce asDave was not in RTC – another marriage destroyed after 20 plus years.
Fleur Thomas was made to divorce her husband John Thomas when he was offloaded from the Gold Base.
Luzia Radstrom was ordered to divorce Jesse Radstrom as he was a Gold staff member and not in RTC even though they work 5oo yards from each other on the same property.
Ailon Barram (former DM personal secretary) was married to Rebecca Redmond and he was made to divorce her when she was suspected of “snooping” and being disaffected with DM. She was promptly sent to the PAC RPF and Ailon was forced to divorce her.
Brousseau, John (“JB”) – Divorced from Deidre who was in Gold
McKay (Viau), Tori Lynn– Divorced in the early 90s from her then husband Ghislain Viau.
Graves, Chelsea – Divorced husband (Adam Sala) so that she could go to RTC – because Adam didn’t “qualify” to go to the Int Base. Adam was also later offloaded from the Sea Org.
Matsumura, Nori – was married to Jenny Gaynor. Divorced in the early 90s (apparently Jenny since died of cancer).
Rossi, Liz – was married to Jim Moonie but was forced to divorce him when he was busted out of RTC in the late 80s/early 90s.
Irons, Georgiana (Dave’s personal steward) – was married to Ron Sommerville- now divorced.
Valerie Light (Dave’s personal steward) – was married to Danny Light, son of Janet Light (head of IASA on the Freewinds). ordered divorce.
Sue Piche was made to divorce Gilles Piche in the early 90s when he was busted from RTC and sent to the RPF. She later married Greg Wilhere (1998) for which both her and Greg were then busted from RTC due to Sue’s blow history (an out qualification for RTC – she blew the Sea Org in 1995 to go see her SP declared parents in Africa).
Tanya and Stefan Lewis. Oh Boy. One day this story will be told. They are both out.
This story is electric. Tania previously worked in RTC as DM secretary.
Hara O’Hare was busted from RTC after working there for 20 years because she refused to divorce her husband of 30 plus years and father of her two children – Brenden O’Hare and Leah O’Hare.
Mette Jensen Pereznieto was forced to divorce her husband Leonardo after he was sent to the RPF (mid 90s).
Marion Dendiu was forced to divorce her husband of 10 years – Bill Dendiu – in 1997 after he blew from the Int Base.
Elsie Tucker Benhraiem (RTC Rep) was forced to divorce her husband William Tucker when he got in trouble with DM.
Jesse Reiss was forced to break off his engagement of several years with Ari Brenner when she got in trouble with DM and was sent to the RPF at Flag.
Mariette Lindstein was forced to divorce Billy Lindstein after being separated from him for six plus years (he was sent off the Base as a command team member in 1996 and was later sent to the RPF).
Lesley Worstell (Tyrer) was forced to divorce her husband of many years, Robert Worstell when he was offloaded from the Sea Org due to a medical condition. This was not before they had been separated for at least four years when Lesley was posted on the Int Base and Robert stayed in LA as he was not qualified to go to the Base.
Susanne Widmer Hattenbach was forced to divorce Jonathon Hattenbach. Most RTC Reps sent off from the base were separated from their spouses at the base for several years. . A couple of examples from this evolution are Melanie and John Peeler: Melanie was sent off to Flag as an RTC Rep in 1996 while John remained at the base. They were separated for 4 years. John left the SO in 2000 and Melanie was forced to divorce him.
many more found here:
http://www.webquake.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=379352&sid=730d5398eff613e83841f9a8498bca15
Righto. I saw that series. The “every inch of his body” mantra will live on in infamy!
Marty says:
And realize, after the wive’s performance DM was seen exchanging high fives with them.
Unquote
To elaborate, “the dirty dozen” or the only 12 INT base staff that were trusted to see the CNN show “Scientology: A History of Violence”
~~when the 12 stepped out of the $72 million dollar Buckingham Palace “RTC office building” at INT GOLD Base and gave each other HIGH FIVES and Joyous acclamations !
While the rest of the world felt REPUGNANT, felt DISGUST,felt the wicked witches ~~ the snarling wives were OFFENSIVE “I know every square inch of his body”~~ morally DISTASTEFUL ~~ they gave each other triumphant High Fives !!!!
What wall ???
What planet do they live on ??
Are they that demented to be so far OFF SURVEY ????
Miscavige’s obsession with counter-creating the
2D….that makes him an obvious, dramatizing OT III
case doesn’t it?
Much fluff has been published on the internet about
OT III – it is a comment on analytical shutdown,
however, that the main thrust and purpose of the OT
III implant has seldom/never been mentioned (vis-a-
vis 2D). ‘Nuff said!
Martiniano’s family’s reaction to his children’s
disconnection shows the strong bonds of 2D, and
“connection” in general. A big reason for the
fascination with the plight of the Chilean miners is
the powerful subject of CONNECTION itself. This
really stirs the heart, not to mention stirring the
massive logistics required to restore connection to
these men and their families…..but Mankind would
expect NO LESS an effort.
A Vietnam vet would appreciate the impulse to not
abandon a comrade on the field of battle.
“Death”, of course, comprises extremely distasteful
concepts of “permanent disconnection”. Sad…..but
FALSE, of course. You cannot do anything BUT live
forever, the only real issue is the length of time
it might take to restore connection with your
friends.
And that’s just a protest “button” after all, right?
Marty,
Personal stories like this are incredibly powerful. As it rolls out in real time it is mesmerizing.
Very Very good expose.
Mark comments on TRUTH REVEALED
and asked probing questions ~~
Mark mentions
HUGE MISTAKES which can bring him down.
Yes, I agree.
But there is something else on-going which is now being broadcast far and wide ~~
The culture within the Church has become a culture of DISCONNECTION of whispering campaigns, of turning friend against friend, child against parent, business owner against employee….. a culture of escalated attack on former veterans who know the scene…a culture of Private investigators, Dirty Ops, Black Propaganda, INTELLIGENCE Ops
with great expense of TAX free dollars under the religious cloaking
AND 501C3 with no accounting of the $$$$$.
and all this might be the single most DEADLY WEAKNESS in spite of their MEST wealth~~~~, that can actually or potentially lead to downfall (Achilles heel)
EVEN with their $1 billion in reserves and millions in glossy Real Estate.
Oh my god I didn’t know that it was THAT bad 😦
Amy and Matt,
Thank you for your input. Thank you for writing this highly recommended book.
http://www.amazon.com/Scientology-Abuse-Top-Amy-Scobee/dp/0692008012/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284248646&sr=1-4
There was a time, when I was proud to be a Scientologist. I had all kinds of links on my home page to “Way to Happiness”, how to purchase purchase of the book DMSMH and so on.
As the years progressed, it was a total liability to have such links. High End Art collectors Googled the words Dianetics and Scientology and would send me Emails that I could not answer. The mood towards DM’s cult is pretty adverse.
Vaughn Young gave a prophetic statement before he passed on.
The Internet is to Scientology, what Vietnam was to the United States.
A WAR THAT CANNOT BE WON.
The Internet is Scientology’s Vietnam.
There will always be a Marty Rathbun
There will always be future Marty Rathbuns
There will always be MORE Marty Rathbuns.
The Internet is a war Scientology cannot win.
“Well what is the leverage we have on DM? What is he most afraid of losing?”
The crown jewels: The 1993 tax exemption.
“What does he most want to keep concealed?”
The fraud and the lies that were used in order to obtain it.
From the “Closing Agreement” between the Internal Revenue Service and the “Church Tax Compliance Committee” of RTC, CST, CSI, CSFSO, CSWUS, BMS & CSRT:
“[…] 1. In general. By executing this Agreement, the Church signatories in their trust or corporate capacities, and their subscribing officers or trustees individually, certify under penalty of perjury the following to the best of their knowledge, information and belief:
“a. that all Scientology-related entities are in compliance with the Code, Treasury regulations and other Service pronouncements of general guidance and applicability;
“[…] “c. that no Scientology-related entity or Scientology-related individual (in his or her capacity as such) has, after 1986, knowingly committed any act of fraud or criminal conduct that might constitute a violation of public policy endangering the tax-exempt status of any Scientology-related entity (assuming for the limited purpose of this paragraph that all Scientology-related entities are otherwise described in Code section 501(c)(3)); […]”
This agreement was signed on October 1, 1993 by David Miscavige, Norman Starkey, Mark Rathbun, Heber Jentzsch, Marc Yager, Jonathan Epstein, Nigel Oakes and 4 other individuals.
When I was active in scientology, the policy on suppressive acts – which includes this suppressive act: “reporting or threatening to report Scientology or Scientologists to civil authorities” was used (abused) to keep staff and public in line and maintain scientology PR.
I hope that knowing this policy is NOT REASON for an Independent to blink at confronting AND REPORTING TO AUTHORITIES any abuse/illegal activity they may be under, regardless of the perp.
IMO, to not do so is condoning and supporting suppression.
Dave flambé.
Personally I find it inspiring the level of responsibility Marty is taking.
He clearly states — look – I helped create these monsters therefore it’s partly up to me to dismantle them.
Furthermore, while he doesn’t whine about the despair he must feel at times – he did hint many many articles ago about how Mosey was the one who nursed him back to life – those years when he was ready to just die …
I can’t help but feel that those feelings – the despair one can feel when things just seem to be going so badly – might come back occasionally. And Mosey is there yet again to say — buck up bucko – you’re in Texas now!!
And Marty grabs his hat and saunters over to the window to give little dave the Texas salute.
May you enjoy your 30th wedding anniversary overlooking the Gulf watching the dragonflies skimming the water knowing that what you started with this blog created ripples which became the tsunami that washed over dms house of evil and pulled it out to sea.
Love,
WH
I think that is a great viewpoint to take Marty.
It is my view that you are a person of good will and should be supported. I think a person should come to that conclusion on their own and become and Indie on their own and when ready. I still feel that the more that come out, the more it will help push things to a “done” faster. And even though you have taken more responsibility in this scene based on your own reality that you need to, I feel that you are doing it (knowingly or not) for all the rest of us too and because of that I feel you should be supported in any way possible.
In my reality you joined the Sea Org to help Mankind, which is why most of us got into Scientology. You went into a very high level and had to handle what you had to handle. Maybe you made some mistakes along the way. But your intentions were good and I am sure that you helped enormously. The fact that after all you have been through and are going through, that you still give a shit says a lot to me. Thanks for giving a shit. Thanks for being a good man.
I don’t mean to pump you up, that is just the way I see it.
I have a brother who was in the Guardians Office (the forerunner of OSA) back in the late 1970s, and one of the most interesting things I remember hearing from him was that the GO had different hours than other Sea Org members. How does the line from Animal Farm go – “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
While everybody else in the SO was working long hours seven days a week, the GO staff worked 9 to 5, Monday through Friday. He was able to moonlight every Saturday with a Scientologist-owned accounting firm on Saturdays to earn extra money. He thought it was strange but never spoke up or complained. But he did mention that the GO considered itself above the rules (and I guess above the law).
Ron Matlock
Marty I get it.
But to stand up and support you is also to support ourselves as you are the uniting force that drew us all together and continues to bind us. How or why that came to be is unimportant. It just IS (as Sarge likes to keep reminding me). Therefore it is a constructive action along our own dynamics to support you and your loved ones. An attempt to destroy you is really an attempt to destroy all of us.
Also the group that has emerged and evolved here is something I have never experienced fully before. It is an awe-inspiring brotherhood rich in spiritual beauty. Group support or defense of any other group member under attack is as easy and natural as warm sunshine.
So that being said;
If you want to take ownership for creating the monster then you should also take for credit for creating this… The Shack pack 😉
If you consider the org board, it seems like a post like DSA would be beneficial. The basic problem is that staff do not get their own cases handled through auditing. OSA posts in particular would tend to attract staff with the impulse to stop activities. Without staff auditing, cases could truly run amok and the most able staff and public driven away.
Christie, you are too awesome!
“bitches” is the exact right indication.
Bring it on bitches…
lmfao
Marty, Keep on as-ising and communicating. The one defensive tool that exists today, that didn’t exist as much in the 80s and early 90s when these “Davey monsters” were being created, is the ability to document everything and broadly communicate it. So just keep it up. And don’t be afraid to ask for help if needed.
Marty
Thank you for filling in your own involvement in these matters. I don’t listen to the crap one occasionally comes across on the internet regarding your culpability and “dirty hands,” and other nonsense I won’t repeat here. I make up my own mind about someone based on my own evaluation. Everything else is noise. But I appreciate your willingness to “fess up” in this way, and thank you for telling us.
Anne
I think we are definitely in the territory of the last desperate throes of death.
I didn’t see that in the Freedom Mag but why am I not surprised? DM’s hypocrisy knows no bounds. Ron was early 40s when he married Mary Sue in her early 20s. And then there is Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes.
DM, you are an embarassing, hypocritical moron.
Tom,
It’s definitely a very sad scene on the 2D stemming from Dear Leader’s 2D severe aberrations – Where is Shelly Miscavige? Does OSA know or why she has been hidden for years? Is it an admission that no one get’s corrected or better using Mestology tech and ethics?
Perhaps any comm to OSA is useless – they are complete minions of Chairman of Buildings by totally agreeing and kowtowing to his insane actions – not LRH. OSA staff must have realized by now that it’s NOT the same Scn, SO and Staff that we all joined in the present time and in it’s form. Each OSA staff has not-ised that the suppressive is inside, not out there!
Hey Jimbo,
Don’t you need someone to prepare the catch correctly for a feast? Will bring my own Cuban cigars.
Synthia,
Isn’t goldenrod the Indies’ favorite flower as pictured here:
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/counterfeit-dreams-in-stock/ ???
First,
The “every inch of his body” biz was deemed successful by the Kool aid drinkers and high fives given out!!! Not sure you got that – it’s a bit of twisted reality with twisted puppies within those ultra barriered walls!
Dave Lubow comes from an esteemed investigative background of “Bicycle Salesman”…
I think it was 1995 in Boulder. Bob Minton was coming into town and meeting some folks for dinner (Jesse? Were you there? I know Stacy was, and probably Wollersheim). Myself and a few friends went down to mess with the PI’s. It didn’t take long to spot them standing around outside the restaurant.
So we started watching them, really, really obvious like. They, of course, notice us and start acting really skittish. There were about 7 of us, and maybe 4 of them, including a woman. They didn’t know what was going on, and why we were watching them, and obviously decided to send their female counterpart away. One of our fellows followed her to her car and stood in front of it, rather obviously writing down her license plate.
This sent her male co-horts into a tizzy that culminated with them coming up to me and screaming, “Why are you following us?” to which we played stupid and said, “You were following us!”… A shouting match ensues where both sides are accusing the other side of following them.. The head PI totally lost his cool and started screaming about how we were “complete f-ing idiots,” etc., etc. Remember, they had no idea who we were. We hadn’t walked in and talked to Bob… we just showed up outside and started messing with the PI’s.
So these Boulder PI’s thought, for a short time, that we were following them. Then they thought that we thought they were following us. And finally they thought we were just a bunch of morons. After convincing them it was all just a big misunderstanding, I called Bob and he came out of the restaurant, in full view of the PI’s, where we walked over and gave him our hysterically funny update.
I laugh when I think how much worry, frustration, irritation and money was spent by those particular PI’s on that particular night. Plus, we got to leave with a few license plates. They really hate it when the tables are turned that way.
Anyway, we went in to sow confusion and have some laughs, and hopefully give Bob a few laughs as well at the expense of DM’s PI fund.
Don’t suppose any of this rings a bell, does it Marty? I would love to have heard how this got reported up the lines.
” (and boy are they creeped out by Miscavige’s crew). ”
’nuff said.
ML
EX CofM Member
Independent Scientologist
Owner of my Constitutional Freedom(s)
Marty,
I have a lot of admiration for the fact that you used to be a strong component of the corrupt DM machine and you saw the light, quit guzzling the Kool-Aid, woke up, left and are now doing something about it with sincerity and effectiveness.
On several fronts, exposing the truths, helping others out, as well as your personal delivery of Scientology to your PCs, you are taking responsibility that you don’t even owe, but is earning you a personal Karma and high ethics condition from which you are going to enjoy your future.
I don’t like to kiss ass and I’m very critical, especially after my own thirty year journey of betrayal, of anyone who tries to do it right and says THEY have the way to stay on the road to freedom, but I’ve enjoyed every exposure you’ve achieved, every reference you’ve given, your videos, your honesty and your writings overall. Keep up the great work and I wish you the best.
OTDT
Most who were at the Int base liked Pinucchio (Nucci) Tisi. This was because his desserts were great and he was the Pastry Chef Gold. He was made to divorce from his wife of many years – Antonella Tisi who was the RTC rep in EU for years. In fact prior to the SO they had a bakery in Bergamo, Italy. Their grown son Fed Tisi is an exec in Gold and now has divorced parents which put him in a weird situation.
Nucci and Anto were flown to Telluride in Tom Cruise’s jet from Hemet airport in Dec ’90 and he made the wedding cake for Tom and Nicole. Happy 2Ds under Dear Leader’s insanity? Perhaps they need to think it over.
WH,
Very awesome wishes and salute to M&M. I second the motion!
When you say Texas salute, that wouldn’t be the hook em horns, but the one finger type?
PS: I waited till today 9/11 to put up the WH prayer flags.
Indeed, he’s already marinated in Scotch – wouldn’t be difficult.
Have no idea.
Marty,
I know I shouldn’t feel worried about Mosey because I know she is a strong person that is perfectly capable of fending for herself and battling her own battles, but I wish I could stand in front of these f—-s and ensure that she is not privy to this dark and disgusting world that we know exists, but we wish didn’t. She truly doesn’t deserve this. There is one stable LRH piece of advice that cannot be repeated enough – IN THE FACE OF SUPPRESSION, FLOURISH AND PROSPER. I hope you both will be able to apply this in spite of the crap that is being thrown you way.
No. Stacy and Vaughn were doing the cat sanctuary thing in Seattle, and were being harassed out of existence. Bob Minton had unknown to them been watching from the sidelines, and eventually contacted Stacy to hekp, after she put out an appeal for help that was circulated privately. It was Bob Minton who bought them their home on Vashon Island, so that they could have a better place for their cat sanctuary. For Stacy, this was a dream – being helped by a wealthy, powerful man. I won’t give too many details, out of respect to Vaughn’s memory, but I knew him and Stacy very very well during the 1997 – 1999 period, and I knew eveything that happened then.
After a while, it became a choice between cats or cults, as Vaughn put it. Stacy wanted to hook up with Bob and do the cult thing, Vaughn would actually have preferred to look ater the cats. He was a sensitive, creative person. They ended up going the cult route, the cat sanctuary ended, and Stacy went off with Bob to do the LMT, leaving Vaughn devastated.
And DM rejoicing in the background, no doubt.
Tom,
I know Italians don’t take kindly to small little dictators. Not that I would wish this on anyone, but history has not been kind to despots that over-step their bounds: http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm
You were asking, Sir? 😉
Thanks, Mark. So it was Lubow who was behind that one. And no doubt the subsequent harassment and spying that persisted even when they were on Vashon Island. No doubt when Vaughn and Stacy split, Lubow went off to conctrate on Bob Minton and Stacy, and the LMT. Vaughn was harassed after that too, but not to the same extent as he was not part of the LMT, but did continue to provide affidavits in court cases.
He went on a road trip all around the US, with his dog Mac, and I still have all the postcards he sent me from each town he visited. Not long after that, he became ill with prostate cancer, and retired from the battle. Even when he was ill, he did not stop writing, and created a blog where he documented his journey with cancer: http://www.phoenix5.org/rvybio.html
Thank you for lightening things up here Sinar!
I was not in the mood to keep my mouth shut today. Maybe I shouldn’t have named names here. I probably should not have made personal attacks here either.
I was upset. Sometimes the inhumanity and the criminality of this organization are just too much to take without spewing. Unfortunately I didn’t really feel better afterward because the truth of the matter is that I actually love these people that I am so mad at right now.
Let me rephrase this. Tim and all my “used to be” friends, but especially you, Tim….How can you continue following the dictates of David Miscavige? There is no way that you, an OSA staff member that reads everything, can any longer just turn a blind eye. You have to know the truth. If you don’t, if you really still believe that all is okay and going according to plan and that we really are clearing the planet. If you really, really believe that going off post to reg for the IAS is the right thing to do. If you really believe in all this registration and the Ideal Org program, etc., etc., etc., If you really don’t see all the outpoints, even after reading friendsoflrh, (which you told me you did)….well, then this is a nightmare because that is scary as hell.
I will end off by saying that I am sorry I called you a bullshit artist but only because it is too derogatory a term, not because I believe you are not lying.
I wish you would tell the truth. My heart is breaking.
Hey Marty, OK. Thanks, I get it now. My American seems to fall apart a bit so sometimes I don’t get the full meaning in the first place.
And here, on this one, I wanted to be sure what it meant.
First of all I don’t think you were the ONLY ONE in creating that IMMUNITY.
There was (is) NO immunity.
There was (please note the past tense here) KSW.
And potentially there IS KSW. Potentially. Potentially. I am writing it and I almost weep. The man put it there for all courses. They do it now like the priest in church who opens the gospel and reads the whatever Prayer first each time. IT (ksw) became a rote thing.
And every little bastard from us who was (IS) inside or outside had (HAS) the potential no matter how HIGH or how LOW, PER KSW, to undo the “immunity”.
There is NO immunity Marty. DM has made Scientology and KSW a mad circus.
Even kindergarden Scientologists should see that.
So, that said, on the “support Marty” obligation thing, oh, is that what you meant?
Hell I disagree again. Because all of us have been around for a long time now and what have WE done?
Nada, nothing, zero. Some did something but not that much. Talking about the boots in the sky here.
Come on buddy! You did it in the past you can undo it now. It’s not an obligation to YOU, it’s an obligation to ME and my dynamics and you just happen to wear those boots in the sky a little bit more effectively, smartly and handsomely than the rest of us. We will make the grade, too but don’t think that those boots fit everyone right now.
Oh, yea, they fitted LRH perfectly alright. But the Old Man is not around buddy and the boots need to be worn.
I never supported a “YOU”. So I don’t feel an obligation to “support you”. Never supported names and labels and symbols but BIG IDEAS behind big beings. I never supported DM after 1995. I support KSW. And you happen to be one who spit his guts out as many others do now. And this is courageous and higly ethical in the mere senses of Scientology Ethics. You did (do) the Conditions properly now. You (we) are moving up a little bit higher each day. This is Conditions, this is changing things in Scientology universe, this is ethics.
And you have created now something that makes ALL Scientologists again responsible per KSW because all DM did was to make them irresponsible and forget the boots in the sky giving them instead a pie in the sky.
Come on guys, let’s audit the hell out of this thing.
We are not “supporting” things here, we are as-ising them.
And this may be one of the biggest ridges ever in Scientology. DM and his pie in the sky.
Capice? Haha!
Marty,
I’m in tears as I write this. I thought I was past all the BPC, but I see I am not. My 2D was broken up by Miscavige and Mike Sutter. I didn’t know about his big obsession in this area. I certainly do now.
Thank you Marty for being out here, maybe you can stop the same from happening to others.
It’s funny that you mention cell phone tapping as a friend of mine and I have been suspecting that was happening to us lately. Because of it, he can’t talk to me about certain things and is going to have to come for a visit just to discuss some things with me. Do you know of any way to tell for sure if this is happening?
Marty, what do you think will happen to Miscavige for all the destruction he has wrought?
Again Marty, thank you for all you are doing – I hope it helps others before they suffer the same fate.
I was thinking the one finger type 🙂
Nice touch on the prayer flags. Auspicious indeed.
Love,
WH
Way to go, Marty.
Way to go.
Government agencies and law enforcement, just like Jesse said.
Way to go.
Marty
You are being effective in your site, and a lot of people are leaving. If you were not a threat, I am sure DM would not send PIs as David Lubow to intimidate you.
Take it as recognition of your importance to the moviment. You are telling truths that DM hates them and wished that were never revealed.
Sorry this is off topic but I just came from sitting through the most BORING Auditors Day Event 2010. I couldn’t help yawning and propping myself up. The first 1/2 was ok but the second half was all about Ideal Orgs around the planet and their stats.
It ended with the reading of “The reason for Orgs” and why you need to join staff. Really no kind words about auditors or that people should train as an auditor. The only auditor quotes came from the local CS giving out local awards.
Just a big propaganda 2 1/2 hour infomercial about doing the Basics and ACC’s.
My havingness is down now…….it was such a downer.
Marty, I beg to differ. You say you are not a leader, and by your utterances on this, I would say that you aren’t by your choice. But you have been elected to lead by those who are following you, which is all of us. We follow your lead. Therefore you are elected. It is just the natural selection of those who are smarter than the mob who get to lead.
So the natural thing to do is for us to defend and protect the leader because, simply put, without you we would be royally screwed. I know you don’t like me or anyone else talking like this, but too bad, you are it by default. It is just the natural law of the Universe. Re-read the seven points of power. If you organized up this activity and made generals, who make officers below them this game would end a lot sooner. Its actually covered in FEBC tape #4 where you establish points of power and they in turn establish points and so forth.
You see, this is not just your personal crusade. We all contributed to the monster, not to your degree but we all want to make up the damage.
In the Responsibilities of Leaders HCO PL, LRH says:
“For one is committed to certain irrevocable natural laws the moment one starts out upon a conquest, either as the man in charge, or a person near to him or on his staff or in his Army. And the foremost law, if ones ambition is to win, is of course, to win. But also to keep on providing things to win or enemies to conquer.”
So you are it. Organize this puppy up. Put people to work for you and duck the torpedoes. You started the war, you take responsibility for involving us all in it. Now give us our marching orders. (If you don’t want to post this then email me and tell me the real deal).
ML Tom
I am sure this is being done but if not;
1. Discover who is the correct IRS terminal to receive data of non compliance to agreed upon terms of the 501(c)(3) agreement.
2. As factual data is uncovered or stated with affidavits a steady feed of this information be sent to that terminal.
3. Discover what is necessary to reverse a 501 (C)(3) status.
Perhaps 3 should go first.
Yeah and Hiro was ordered to divorce me (as I was in the PAC RPF) or he would have to leave the Int base after being there since ’83 — which he actually paid for but then changed his mind and was subsequently sent to CLO EUS — And 0n Sept 12th (today) we celebrate our 28th wedding anniversary.
Sorry Davey — didn’t actually succeed on this one!
In the rudimentary forming up of our indi org it would be good to know who in our field has special interests and abilities. For example, likes to research stuff, or is legally trained etc. Then to deligate small jobs to volunteers like the above post.
Does Tim read this website?
Jesse,
My long lost friend and funniest room mate I ever had while at the base. Thanks for those memories and the ones from the RTC days, and “Mid Resivoir Studio Days! Well, there were lots actually! We have to talk….
Now, more to the point…
I can confirm Marty’s simple review of how the PI line works. I was in many of these “meetings”. The “wink, wink” is factual and THAT is how Dave Miscavige get’s er’ done! That is the fine line of transition between his financial gravy train authorized use of the donations by parishioners and giving direct direction to the PI’s.
These “meetings” by the way is the “high” Linda Hamilton, Kirsten Caetano, Kurt Weiland and others soak into their souls acting as reasurance and reconfirmation to continue to do what they do after David Miscavige has dispensed the greenlit “Gravy Train Drug”.
Here is another very real reality on how financial lines work in the church. Example: OSA has two “Rush” PO’s submitted for approval… 1 for toilet paper for the staff @ $200 and the other is for “Legal Fee’s and Expenditures” for $10,000.00 . Guess which PO is approved and which is rejected!!?? Staff are left wondering why there is no toilet paper…. BTW… because I submitted MANY RUSH PO’s for “Legal Fee’s and Expenditures”, I discovered submitted Rush PO’s makes money for the FBO authorizing them. I believe the FBO Account see’s anywhere between 5 and 10% of the ammount authorized so as to serve as a penalty to the FP committe for having to “Rush” funding outside of standard financial planning and for which the FBO is authorized to keep and dump into their account. Standard LRH Finance Policy frown’s upon them but understands there is a need for such a line,
I bet FBO OSA Int now a days has become numb to the penalty aspect as they are making a mint every other hour of any given day when they authorize the “Rush PO” to “protect the church from Marty”, thus taking in thier own piece of the “donations provided by parishioners Pie.!
One other thing…. As my dear dear friend Christie put’s it….. “Hell Ya Bitches! The Mutha Fookin Truth! Truth, Truth, Truth — Nutt’n But da TRUTH! Come on folk’s spill it!! Confront it and SPILL IT like your and others lives depends on it!
“On the Day in which we can fully trust each other, there will be PEACE ON EARTH! Who said that….. Oh yes, my and many others dear friend L Ron Hubbard.
Peace to you Jesse!
C-ya… I’m out….!
— Jackson
Mark,
Every religion in the past had it’s martyrs. We should henceforth refer to Vaughn as St Vaughn!
LOL !!!!!!!¨!!!
And how in the world can these activities be justified under the terms of the 501(c) Code?
RTC and CSI are supposed to be *charitable organizations* – “organizations that are organized and operated for purposes that are beneficial to the public interest” (from Wikipedia). Considering the amounts of money that is spent by CSI/RTC on PI activities, I cannot help but conclude that they must be blatantly lying in their filings to their IRS about the way and nature of their expenditures.
Okay – got my wordpress ID right. This is Grasshopper.
Tom, to the point of having your kids disconnect – that to me is just ridiculous and stupid. I have family members that are ex-Scn, and have been for years, and were when I did my OT Levels and BC, and they were quite unhappy with Scientology. I never disconnected, because I refused to let it be a problem. I also saw the incredible problems my friends had with their families, and the amount of trouble they went through to try to keep things civil – like you did with your family. I did a lot of that with my family too – those who used to be in, and those that were never in – born-again Christians, agnostics, whatever. My uncle used to tease my mom, asking her if she was still pleased with her $15,000 of enlightenment! (This was well before the current prices!).
But this current spate of kids disconnecting from their parents! This is absolutely BS and absolutely squirrel. Unless there is immediate physical danger (like you are seven years old and your dad is an alcoholic junkie with a gun collection and a bad temper) there is no excuse for disowning your parents.
This can ONLY be spiteful, because it is so incredibly destructive. And spite is just 1.1 or maybe just a smidge higher. Certainly not pan-determined.
If you think about it, what could be more survival than having your kids be in touch? Even if it is a fair roads/fair weather conversation only? Same for Karen’s son, or any other child of an ex-church member? Especially when the world is watching? Forget human warmth. Just for cold, hard PR purposes, would it not make sense for Karen’s son to give Karen a call? Even if he’s PO’d that she left the church? For your kids? For anyone’s kids? They fly celebrities and money-men across the country to try to talk someone out of blowing, but they won’t let their kids make a phone call?
No. That is just cold, hard, reactive spite. And cold, wet fear that mom or dad could get their baby to see the light.
Thank you, Marty.
Oh my God. This guy hates the 2D. This is insanity.
What is really, really ironic was that the Church was apparently in favor of Prop 8 in California, which outlawed Gay Marriage. Perhaps it was misunderstood that the Church opposes in practice all marriages, gay or straight!
Marty and Mo and Mike, I know you really don’t have a choice but to put up with this crap, but I want to thank you for doing it.
(Forgive me Marty but I wanted to ad this in:)
By the way, to you non-Scientologists reading the blog, I am using Scientology nomenclature. That is usually a sin in Scientology circles, because misunderstood words lead to non-comprehension, and non-comprehension can lead to animosity and even violence toward a subject.
However, there is a catch – and that is that if you know you don’t know the words, you can avoid the animosity. You just don’t know the words.
So, you have two choices: one, realize you don’t know the words, and leave it at that – Scientology remains a mystery. Or, two, learn the words by reading the materials of Scientology where they are defined. Then, you will understand what the terms of Scientology are, and you should have enough knowledge to make a truly informed decision about it.
This is sort of a red pill/blue pill moment for you. But, I will no longer hold back on my use of Scientology because some innocent bystander might get caught in the cross fire of misunderstood words. If you don’t know the word, look it up!
And stuffed with the finest cuisine.
Cult keeps abusing the elderly.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=472099&postcount=1
Phil Phantom
Just curious how Mike and Marty feel now that the shoe’s on the other foot. Any wins and cognitions?
The purpose of the OSA-department is sensible, of course.
But the methods … there is a confidential OSA training manual ( invest officer hat ) at wikileaks.org . It has the checksheet and the confidential HCO PLs. It names military and intelligence books to be read.
And there are LRH instructions like “if you cannot control someone, use overwhelm.” One of the most questionable LRH statements ( in my opinion ).
Often it will not be possible to “overwhelm” someone by legal means. What remains then ? The crime. And if LRH said so then it must be the greatest good, right ?
And lo and behold, now the OSA operative has a perfect justification to live out his evil purposes. He had to withhold them for so long, but now all of a sudden he is fully entitled to do what he never permitted himself to do …
Some of the OSA strategies are the same that are being used by government intelligence agencies, Illuminati etc.
http://www.gangstalkingworld.com
Mitsu,
Ahh yes, the Miramichi!
Sinar,
Open invite for you Sinar 🙂
And the more cigars the better!
And for that fact alone, Hiro deserves the smartest guy in the room award 28 years running 🙂 Mike
I find the nomenclature fascinating . It is like an anthropologist journey to me.
Vic,
The High Crime you are referring to states:
“Reporting of threatening to report Scientology or Scientologists to civil authorities in an effort to suppress Scientology or Scientologists from practicing or receiving standard Scientology.”
The operative terms are ‘in an effort to suppress…from practicing or receiving standard Scientology’. NOT the mere act of reporting.
As in ANY act classified as a High Crime, intent is key. In the very first policy describing this, that of 7 March 65 Issue I, it states clearly:
“SUPPRESSIVE ACTS are acts calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist”.
Again, the operative term ‘calculated’.
At this stage of the game, one might argue that failing to get DM’s ethics in by reporting to civil authorities his corruption of the actual practices of LRH’s Scientology is a suppressive act calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist.
The final paragraph of the above PL, it’s most recent version, states:
“Nothing herein shall ever or under any circumstances justify any violation of the laws of the land or intentional legal wrongs. Any such offence shall subject the offender to penalties prescribed by the law as well as th ethics and justice actions.”
What fog?
M&M, I figure they once were real honest theta wives with high moral and purpose until Davey put his paws into their pity souls. I don’t think the loss of those wives is to be greatly mourned; their loss of their integrity and sense of reality is far more worrisome.
However, there’re still doing us a favour; the lying bitches op puts oil on the fire of wog public awakening to violence and lying being part of Scientology today. It doesn’t matter who is violent or who lies because it’s filed in the collective mind as part of Scientology; the more controversy, the more discussion, the more general awareness.
It also proves that Scientology doesn’t have any sec checker not even worth his marginal $25 pay check; the unwarranted criticism against the interviewer, denial of admitted documented facts, no answer to the question, downplaying a leaders responsibilities, recrimination and other W/H phenomena wouldn’t be accepted by any auditor worth his title.
Han Solo,
You might check out PABs 13, 14 and 15 for some additional material on the area.
PAB 15 appears to have a typo (an omission ) in the first paragraph, third sentence of something on the order of ‘degraded/debased/ aberrated’ or some such.
Resisting something sets up eventually, a craving to fill the vacuum of the scarcity created by resisting. This mechanic is based on fundamentals described in the Factors.
I’m with Mike on that! Yayyyyyy HIRO 🙂
GH,
Actually, DM specifically opposes marriages, the 2D (unless it is either suppressed or exaggerated). As pointed up by OT VIII’s comment earlier, it’s a dramatization of an aspect of case, carefully designed to suppress Creation and Destruction.
DM is out of valence. He isn’t there as a being and what you see is a Reactive Mind on full. Since he isn’t there ( a valence can be considered a ‘viewpoint of dimension’) and can’t view personally, all he has is what Mr. Mind ‘sees’. That is something not of present time which colors anything in present time with its significance and force.
Not every person in the Church, indeed not the ‘Church’ acts this way. However, to the extent they too do not view in present time but merely act according to DM’s dictates, and in that commit and omit in contra-survival acts, they become Trouble Sources. The result is what the SP, DM, seeks; a generalization of entheta to attempt to hide behind. Mask the source. Have ‘no source’, and especially not DM.
Ooops, it seems OT VIII’s comment follows mine. See below.
Ron,
It may very well be that MSH established the schedule for the GO. She was always pushing standard schedules, and included Family Time and the Dynamics.
The Sea Org too had as a Base Flag Order, 226, entitled SENIOR POLICY, a standard schedule including 8 hours production, 8 hours sleep, hygienc time daily, Liberty, and Leaves. It’s an LRH issue. I used it frequently at Int and eventually was found guilty by an RTC Comm Ev, Chaired by Warren McShane, of a ‘suppressive act’ for doing so.
“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” – Jimi Hendrix
Hey there General Talia,
Man, it must be cozy where you are. The land of ‘never done’.
Thanks. It is very doubtful they are tapping your phone. Don’t get paranoid – remember a major objective of theirs is to get into your head.
gandiguy – was that meant to be sarcastic, or serious? If the former, in very bad taste, if the latter, Vaughn would hate that. He was no saint, and he knew it, but, like so many, he tried to do his best, and help put things right by speaking out. The situation with him and Stacy was complex.
My reason for citing Vaughn and Stacy was to provide another example of how DM relentlessly obsessed about splitting up 2Ds. And also to give an unheroic account of what happened, without violating privacy by giving too many details.
From my observation, Marty and Mosey will be fine, because of different characters and circumstances. And I thank Marty for speaking out with honesty, both in the ops on him and Mosey, and for his response to the Vaughn-Stacy sceanrio. Enough from me now.
Thanks for the update KB. Just another piece of the puzzle to this convoluted tale. 😦
Major Wynn,
I find it odd that anyone could read this entire posting & comments and then ask such a question. Surely you know you sound like OSA.
I seemed to have answered in the wrong place on your comment KB. Darn the 2 finger typing. Anyway thanks for the update on Vaughn. He did seem to me be a genuine caring being and too bad he didn’t live to see this day. Any man who loves cats is ok by me in my books. 🙂
Han Solo s the Wiki here are other leak sites.http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/puddle-leaks-49134/
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/PROJECT_CHANOLOGY/LEAKED_DOX
Marty you don’t have to answer this as it may be too sensitive at this time but can you confirmn that DM have something to do with Tom Cruise’s break up with Nicole? Doesn’t seem much of a stretch given the standard SOP of DM. Also I find it truly hilarious that they would make comments about Mike R and Christie when the “most devoted scientologist that he knows” (according to DM) i.e. Tom Mapother the III is much much older than his own current paramour. Hypocrite much?
Tom,
I’m afraid for M that there are ‘irrevocable laws’ at play. However, in this instance it seems ‘marching orders’ aren’t needed: OTs are apparently acting as such and as Associated Terminals. That is, self-determined beings, co-operating in a pan-determined manner.
It’s actually as cool as anything I’ve ever been a part of.
Grasshopper,
Marty mentions later in this blog that DM carefully evaluates each situation before taking action. I think Tom’s handling is because DM thought he could quash Tom by pushing his family buttons, same with Mike, Karen, etc. They all have information which could be quite harmful to his rein of Scientology. DM was wrong.
I, on the other hand pose very little threat except that I communicate. I’m declared and have publicly declared my independence but am mostly out of comm with my org. Although I have had some minor interference, many would have missed the connection. I just happened to spot weird information that came to me from a wrong source and the only other place it was known was in my life history. No harm done but just an indicator of SOP on defectors.
I am still in contact with my octegenarian dad who is on service (doing the basics, of course). The orgs he is connected to knows it, as does flag. Though it has been hinted that he shouldn’t be talking to me neither org has ordered disconnect or done any ethics handlings of it.
You see, he still buys the koolaide and although he himself is penniless, he desperately wants to go to flag for the new and improved grades. Flag happens to know that he does have a money source connection and that makes him a hot prospect. He has already been told that he can’t stay on base because of physical conditions (don’t want another death scandal, you know) yet he is getting daily calls from flag/qual to get him okayed to receive service.
Why would they work so hard on an old guy like him and even let him talk to his declared daughter? Because he might be a GI cycle…He’ll never be able to do the service (trust me, I know his physical condition) but it will be an inflow to the org, followed by bad news from the CS and suggestions on how to donate the money he just paid for service.
Each situation has its own handling.
🙂 I knew you were an explorer/adventurer!
Amen to that Marty.
A storm is a brewing. And every truth that comes out may only be a raindrop by itself but many raindrogs together can make a veritable deluge and create a powerful storm which DM can’t neither control, or hold back.
Don’t know you at all but I like you! Truth without drama.
Karen, I believe the motivation is GI AND to try to put him into a position to influence you. My guess.,
OSA motto: “The perceived threat is as effective as the actual threat” applies here.
All very well in theory. But reality is quite another thing. When I post details of harrassment of me, I get less reach, less support generally. I also get people originating rather flimsy theories about how they might have their phones tapped and the like. A small minority who are in it for the long haul step up. And a couple or few come out of the shadows and contribute something tangible that materially forwards reform. But, cheerleaders tend to give themselves a little more distance. I could I suppose appeal to patriotism (the last refuge of the scoundrel per Gore Vidal) and create some group think charge over the rampart. To what end? In LRH’s own words – which I have posted from a lecture earlier – become a copy of that which one seeks to destroy. Beware of Responsibility of Leaders. It is Miscavige’s bible. At the end of the day it did not serve LRH nor MSH well.
Okay, here’s a story that will initially seem inapplicable but intimately applies:
England paid ship owners to transport convicts to Australia. The death rate for convicts shipped rose to about a third. Ship captains could sell excess food, so why feed the prisoners? No incentive. Britain’s moralists were in an uproar over the scandal. An economist suggested the obvious: instead of paying for prisoners shipped; pay only for prisoners that arrived alive. This resulted in a nearly 100% survival rate.
Economics runs on incentives. Not just monetary economics, but moral, mental and spiritual economics. What does one gain from one’s actions and behaviors and investments?
There are positive rewards. And their are avoidance of pain rewards.
Most criminal organizations are broken from the bottom up. Put pressure on lower individuals to come clean and rat on those higher up. And just keep moving up the food chain until you reach the top.
Criminals are without honor or scruples. They don’t have much loyalty. History shows over and over that the immoral will turn on their bosses when the reward is sufficient or the avoidance of punishment is sufficient.
These PIs are filthy and their past will be full of crimes. They aren’t immune to the tactics they employ. Shining a very spotlight will send them scurrying across the linoleum. A noisy investigation of them should work–asking their neighbors the same questions they ask of others. Reprehensible, but effective. The law and courts can be used against them. They want their money and their status, both of which stand on tenuous circumstance.
As for the big cheese, has anyone thought of putting a billboard up along an LA freeway with his picture asking: “Substantial reward for anyone with information leading to the arrest and conviction of this person regarding the following crimes: Tax Evasion, Inurement, Human Trafficking, Extortion, Assault & Battery, … (fill in the list.)” Contact: StopTheAbuse.com or call ….
One billboard should work. The media would go nuts. Use individuals with no money and resources as board members of the StopTheAbuse organization. Get it incorporated as a shield.
Just keep everything legal and true so that any court case will immediately lead to increased exposure of the criminal activities being protested. And the media will be able to report without fear.
Michael
This one’s for you, Marty:
Barn’s burnt down
Barn’s burnt down —
now
I can see the moon.
Alternate translation:
Since my house burned down
I now own a better view
of the rising moon
Japanese poet
beautiful.
It’s understandable.
The more Marty does, and the more Mike does, the more it starts to go away for me. But you have to realize what a shock it is to find yourself on the business end of a group you deeply and sincerely believed was there to help you, and to help all mankind. You devoted your whole life to them. When you find out that they are just a bunch of fucking criminals, when you see how much they lie, and how much they try to destroy peoples’ lives, it is really bad for a person to wake up to that.
I would wish it on no one.
And so that’s why I’ve been critic and a whistleblower for 10 years.
There are a lot of people out there like Major Wynn. That they are not understandable to you means you really don’t understand and are not taking responsibility for Scientology’s impact upon the world – a major part of the Code of Scientologist.
I can see Marty beginning to, and Mike, and many others who were formerly part of the criminals of Scientology. Their real world actions to put period to the criminal element of Scientology are helping me heal.
It would be nice if more Independents applied the Code of a Scientologist and at least made an effort to understand Scientology’s real history in society when they got out of the Church. And when they run across one of those who have been destroyed, or attempted to be destroyed by Scientology, that they say “there but by the Grace of God go I” and give the person some slack on Marty’s blog.
Allen
In support of your central premise, I highly recommend the documentary FOOD INC.
The game of generals and officers is quite aberrated. If you need an authority figure that bad, what you really need is more auditing.
Back on the subject of billboards, are their available billboards near orgs where ads could be placed stating such things as:
Ron wanted you free; COB wants you a slave.
Stop paying for off policy MEST.
The bridge is available! Your freedom awaits.
When in doubt communicate: read markrathbun.wordpress.com.
Find out the truth about upper management’s squirreling.
Find out the truth about who’s stealing your donations for a lavish lifestyle.
Get the entire bridge for a fraction of the cost.
Enforced disconnection is a crime against you and your family.
Etc.
Also, we should campaign to get this type of message of hope and truth employed during pickets of orgs. We’re trying to change minds and salvage beings. The empty orgs still have fence sitters who need a shove to get them to honestly examine the actual statistics and products inside the church and in the independent movement.
Michael
Pab 15
1st sentence, 2nd paragraph
” The body is a very craven and degraded thing in an unprocessed state and rather rapidly debases its spirit … “
Billboard idea: Only YOU own the copyright on your eternity!
Allen,
Very compelling. Some of your own responsibility for that which adversely affected you would help you heal. Similar acts. You ‘criticizing’ isn’t the same as you assuming a viewpoint of cause/responsibility.
These cries of betrayal in your posts, for example this one, smack of ‘I never done nuttin’ to nobody’ and a hapless effect point. Surely there are rightnesses and wrongnesses in life, yet random, 1.1, carping criticism, when not borne out in fact, are consistently shown to be indicators of comparable deeds. Hence the loud protestations and claimed innocence.
You’ve complained bitterly of mistreatment of your father. It was indeed, as you portray it, most foul. Nothing that I haven’t personally experienced, in this life, and at the hands of persons that today I have a real, deep, and lasting friendship with.
There will hopefully come a point in your existence where you find relief from this seemingly irremediable things that you claim have been done to you or your dynamics. Responsibility is the way to that state of being.
“The body is the Temple of the Soul”
Everytime you excersice you pray to it
Ya, but you are looking at what I am saying with a half-glass empty attitude. What I am talking about is organizing this activity up for purposes of planetary clearing, which I hope is the end game of all of this. If not, oops, my bad for assuming.
I mean why put all of this energy into a fool (DM) when it can be put into rebuilding from the outside. DM will take care of himself. LRH says to flourish and prosper in the face of suppression – that’s how you deal with suppression.
I’ve read all the negative responses like Helmuts response of SPs hinding in lines. Thats about as McCarthy-ish as it can get. And Responsibilities of Leaders didn’t let LRH and MSH down. We did. I was at Int when the coup against Broeker took place and we all knew it took place when it did.
I’m not talking about an over the rampart heave to take back the Church. The Church is dead. I’m talking about starting anew. To hell with DM and OSA. Let them Keystone Kop themselves into the ground. Let’s build an anvil they will break themselves on. “Well Organized activities survive. The survival of individuals in those organizations depends on the highly organized activity of the Activity. A small group extremely well organized, has excellent chances of survival. Even a large group, badly organized, hasn’t a prayer.” LRH Org Series 29-1.
ML Tom
Quicksilver,
Yep. The omitted in the 1st para, third sentence is likely ‘debased/degraded’ and the sentence would read “The personality which we know as the individual is a spirit (debased/degraded) by its contagion with the body.”
I apply Data Series 9, ERRORS, to this sort of thing: “The reason misunderstood words or typographical errors were not regarded as a barrier to study was that people converted them or not-ised them.”
Cat Daddy,
In that light, you should look up ‘R6 bank’ in the Technical Dictionary. The term ‘R6’ does refer to Routine Six as you’ve found, however, what Routine Six addressed is what is being referred to in the colloquialism ‘R6’.
Oh Jackson! I can’t help but smile as I try to type thinking about you and the fun and shit we went through! Thank you for the details of how the financing is done. All of it is perfectly illegal. This is why I think if you follow the money there is a easy rico law suit just waiting to be won against the madd Scn dictator. I wish some bad ass lawyer would get on thier ass again. One can only hope. Yeah you and I need to set aside some time for a phone call. You know we could talk until the season changes in both our locations!
Maybe someone in ‘the know’ should inform the feds about the ‘Limited Edition’ poster scam run by the CofS. I think it continued beyond 1986.
Marty,
What I take from Responsibility of Leaders, is the data regarding ‘power’ and THAT in light of the Factors.
In terms of holding a position in space in this here universe, one can generate power when they can. That’s mechanically derived from the two-terminals and the all important ‘base’ (as covered in the PDCs among other places).
Inevitably, one who CAN hold a postition and causitively apply the Qs, is going to be a ‘power’ source. Others, of comparable magnitude say, can ‘hook up’ and voila, lots and lots of power can be generated.
It comes to the Factors and the mechanics of this universe. In that respect, we’ve agreed to those mechanics. You’re still here, power thus can be generated. Too bad you can assume a viewpoint, extend points to view, hold terminals apart as the base and fwap all sorts of stuff in between. If you were a wimpy li’l thetan you’d have an AAAAAAAA battery. You, not, wimp.
The last thing on the PL Responsibilities of Leaders, and the data on ‘power’ I take, is the difficulty of divesting all, every, the works, of the lines one has to this universe, established by holding various positions and applying the Qs and putting terminals there and being the base.
DM’s version of these ‘laws’ is an instance of him stealing the position LRH established a la An Essay on Management, and as a parasite on those theta lines. That’s not a good ‘model’.
LRH, MSH and various others along the track, have run into the difficulty of severing all lines, all contact, any agreement/co-postulating of the ‘time continuum’ of this here universe.
I rarely, if ever agree with what Allan writes. It’s usually too slanted to the full anti-LRH/scn side.
However, this post speaks to me. “There but by the Grace of God, go I”
I also have noticed that many who post here through the months have tempered their speech and are seemingly (heaven forbid) more open minded about not seeing the world completely black and white.
I really appreciated Marty’s comment about “The Responsibility of Leaders” not having serving LRH and MSH well.
If we are to survive as a species on our rather raped earth – we had better come together as fast and as honestly as we can.
That takes constant alertness and constant willingness to fight back — AGAINST ones own ego.
It is within that one can find peace and the ability to view others with equanimity.
And it takes a hell of a lot of work.
Marty constantly amazes me with his ever expanding and honest view of himself and the world.
That is a leadership quality. Not marshaling up the troops to march to his tune.
WH
Mary,
Sorry, I probably shouldn’t have even mentioned it in this post, because I am not worried about OSA, or anyone else for that matter (I’m a little fish with no real big money, and I actually started wondering around the time that I retained my very high profile business/tax atty- I think it’s on his end and I really have nothing to hide) Sorry for throwing in that confusion – forget all that mess, what I really wanted to know is what you think will happen to Miscavige for all he has wrought. What will be the outcome?
Ron says a man doing these things will cave himself in – but he has been doing this stuff for almost his whole life from what I understand, and yet he seems to be still successfully pulling the wool over the eyes of many and raping their pocketbooks. From the outside looking in, he doesn’t seem to be caving at all. Me – I have one little w/h and fall to peices – and yet DM is a monster who seems to just continue with no conscience or consequence. He just trashes our fammilies, robs our bank accounts and runs off to his great lifestyle. What am I missing here?
I’m doing better now with outside auditing straightening me out, but it definately seemed for a while that here I was crashed on the rocks, my comm lines broken to my husband and tech terminals at the church and this monster was running around still giving orders — his minions faithfully following him straight to hell! I just don’t get it. What am I missing that it looks like he is winning?
I just want to know there will be justice. I do know that you (and many others) are working to bring his his evil deeds to light, but what will be the outcome? What can someone like me hope for?
Will there be justice, and what will it look like?
Will we be able to get enough others trained up to be able to carry on the tech while he waits patiently in a dark pit for us to enjoy the good life Ron promised us until we decide enough of the planet is cleared to safely bring him out for handling? Will he just turn his own self into a rock or a slug? Will he just continue on with impunity because he has fooled so many by now and legally owns all the acccoutrements he fooled us into setting him up with?
I guess I am looking for some hope of justice for my family and the thousands of others this has happened to. You have been around a long time and have seen much, what hope can you point out for me? What justice can we expect? When will it come and what will it look like when it gets here?
Just curious — why do you keep going back?
Marty, I had no idea you were aware of this kind of knowledge. I’m really impressed, no kidding
I remember an event like you describe here but it was in 1998. This is not to say your date is incorrect as there may have been earlier meeting in Boulder that I did not attend. However I did reside in Boulder for a short time. Thanks for the memories!
Allen and let’s not forget. Let’s get the money!
Jim –
If a person lies to you, you are not responsible for his lies – even if you have lied to others in the past. In the same way, if a person commits a crime against you, you are not responsible for his crime.
Exposing the lies and criminal acts of Scientology *is* taking responsibility for having been involved in, and supported, Scientology. If you can involve law enforcement and have the criminals arrested, tried and convicted – even more so.
You were taught as a Scientologist to assume responsibility for lies you did not tell, and for crimes you did not commit. This is not a path to sanity, or even responsibility.
Responsibility must include separating out the correct ownership of all the factors involved in a situation, and assigning that ownership correctly – without misownership – and seeing that all distinct elements are cleaned up – each back to their correct source.
Because of the teachings you have espoused above, Scientologists have learned to blame the victim for the perpetrator’s crime.
It is the wrong lesson to teach, and the wrong lesson to learn.
Allen
Tom,
You have repeatedly posted here your view of the necessity of creating some sort of organization and have said that you are going to do it and nobody is going to stop you. I admire your conviction but on the other hand seem to want Marty to give you orders? If you really need someone to give you orders, then you are not going to accomplish anything. You know management tech — if a person (or org) requires orders, it is never going to be a success. You want to deliver and organize some sort of group, get going man. Nobody IS stopping you.
Mike
If you are not a high-profile target, this is unlikely it is happening.
But I’d still like to issue a warning about the security of mobile phones. The GSM encryption standard was broken 2 years ago. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#GSM_service_security
This type of surveillance can not easily be detected as for this kind of attack would suffice a PI in a van with some digital equipment in the trunk. Landbased lines are more secure, because there you would actually have to tamper with the hardware which is a higher risk for the PI.
This is why I urge you: If you are a high profile target, and you have important business to discuss, do not, under any circumstances, do so via cell phone.
Someone in OSA EUS reads this site, I am pretty sure.
Happy Anniversary to you both! I know you will have a wonderful day. Tony & I were very impressed with the strength of your 2D & how you stuck together through thick & thin. Sending you both a hug.
Marie-Joe & Tony
SK , don’t forget to turn his phone off 😉
Karen,
I get ya. It’s like they are on another planet. It’s very sad, actually. They have become poison, toxic personalities while all the while assuming and asserting superiority. They are caricatures, two dimensional entities that have completely forgotten who they really are. They are prisoners. That kind of spiritual imbalance leads to psychosis and disease. I do not envy these people. They are so trapped. Surreal.
Mike, I never stopped on building a group. I am very close to opening and have been working daily on it. What I am talking about is planetary clearing. Are we going to use all of the talent and power that is around for anything other than an audience? Survey the public on lines and find out what they want to do, be and have.
ML Tom
Of course!
Why else do you think I would have been a critic on the Internet for ten years?
It’s all about the MONEY! :>
Allen,
Again with the ‘wrong target’. At least it’s consistent. Nothing like a rut.
Use those two holes above your nose to peep the truth Yo. Go into any org, any one of them. If you cannot see the cave in; nothing I say is going to convince you otherwise.
Thanks. What I was referring to was the central message of inspiring others to flow power by any means necessary (the ends justify the means) and then having inspired or even directed that, abdicating responsibility for its effects (Dober in the hospital, pink legs, etc). Karma, overt-motivator sequence, reaping what one sows (no matter what language or philosophy – virtually the entire world recognizes the inevitability of it) is as inevitable as the morning sunrise. I’d supply references to support this idea from LRH himself, but there is not enough room on this blog for them.
Yeah, I think it was 1998. I’d have to dig through old pictures and a.r.s. posts to be absolutely certain. But yes, 1995 is certainly too early.
Marty,
Is there anything we can do here to help you rally against the immediate suppression you are going through?
The reason I “outed” myself here (even with my picture) is because I got tired of feeling I had to hide for fear of my own personal safety. I felt this has been cowardly of me for the last 10 years since the CoS scared the daylight out of me in 1999 and effectively shut me up when they hunted down my real identity under my alias of “Safe”. (Anybody ever feel that hunted feeling?)
Now, after you and Mike have taken the lead to bravely publicly out yourself, I decided to do the same myself here, also. I feel I’m among friends now, and that if worse comes to worse, that others here, hopefully, will come to my aid to defend me against the CoS if needed.
I made the news back in 1999 when the “church” forced AT&T to reveal my real name under my “Safe” identity.
The reason? Because I posted the 274 rules of the “church” from the unbelievably expanded 1999 (squirrel) edition of “Introduction to Scientology Ethics”.
It’s obvious, the church did not (does not) want these rules (crimes of the “church”) to be broadly known to the public. No public I know, in their right mind, would ever knowingly subject themselves to this huge list of supposed “ethics’” rules. IMO, this gargantuan set of 274 rules (list of “crimes”) apply to Staff, not the new Scientologist.
I believe the real why behind me getting hunted down by CoS is not because I violated their copyright (religious text copyrighted???), which to this day I believe fell under the “Fair use” law. The real why is because I exposed their obvious totalitarian rule by revealing the giant catalog of 274 “crimes”. It made it obvious there was a pink elephant in the living room or that the emperor was not wearing clothes.
AT&T caved in to CoM and revealed my real identity to CoS. CoS rushed through procedure to where I never had enough time to fight. Here’s a little history on what happened.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-226676.html
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/06/19998
The list I wrote included items such as “Discourtesy and insubordination” and “committing a problem,” as well as 272 other “crimes” of the Church of Scientology.
Clearly, I hit a sore spot and a button with CoS that was “out PR” for them. To this day, I believe this information should be driven home hard. But it’s not, and it stupifies me why it’s not being used to demonstrate to public how the “church” puts such suppresive duress on Scientologists, especially Staff.
Anything I can do to come to the aid of your situation, let me know. I’m a “safe” terminal. 🙂
Actually the Writer’s of the Future award is highly respected by the SFWA and has introduced quite a few new authors to the genre which is what the Ol’man intended.
So no it does not have some other “agenda”.
There is a difference between pointing out actual out-points in an individual or group and merely just poisoning the well.
Are you serious? Proceeds go to CST. The PR is used by the Church of Scientology. To not disclose that to participants whom are used to forward it is fraudulent. I don’t care if God said otherwise.
Wayne, what you do day in and day out with disseminating your important research is plenty back up. Thank you.
I am certainly enjoying this blog and all of the free exchange of opinions going on here. I am not a passive person by nature and I’ve learned to maintain a balnce devoid of exclusion. We are all just here. I appreciate the respect most people here show one another even while disagreeing. That being said I’ll say this. I’m not sure of the relationship history between Jim Logan and Allen Stansfield but when I read the exchange between the two I was way less than impressed with the way Jim communicated with Alan. I thought it was rude and unnecessary. Anyone that has honestly studied Hubbards writings understand the principle of granting beingness. It is not my intention here to call Jim out. My response to that exchange I read on this formum is based on the integrity I’ve earned in this life. That integrity does not allow me to be silent or complacent with any thing I prercieve as bullying or denigration of another. If this is Jim’s playground I will surely leave it to him. I would be less than a friend if I did not try to inform someone about a mistake in trying to find the love. I will always speak if I see someone mistakingly foraging for trash instead of treasure.
A large part of his ego and source of power is that he obtained the tax exemption. If it were lost due to his violations of the agreement a significant portion of his power base would also be lost.
Well, one wants his posts to come through moderation, doesn’t one? 😉
Exactly. This is another reason why I follow this blog with great interest. Even if I do not hold a kind view towards Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard, as Marty would call it.
And another reason I wanted to chime in is this:
With this I am not passing judgement on the tech, it is just my observation: I helped one person out of the Scientology organisation a few years ago. What struck me was that even years after her escape she kept having feelings of guilt and would go on for hours how it was all her fault how her case was mishandled. It got better with time. But it was clear to me, that people were being made very introverted in the Scientology organisation.
What Allen says rings really true to me. It is an important step to regaining your independence to know you are not responsible for all bad things that have happened to you. No matter whether you choose to still adhere to LRH or not. At some point, even you, Jim Logan, had to come to the realization it’s not your fault Miscavige ultimately turned out to be this tyrant.
Sure, you could say you could have seen it earlier and could have taken action while in. But now you’re outside and fighting back. And if you don’t mind my saying so… right now you’re taking more responsibility than all of those true believers of Miscavige.
Jim,
You begin your refutation of Allen’s post with the words, “Very compelling.” I agree with you. His words are very compelling.
Definition of COMPELLING
: that compels: as a : forceful b : demanding attention c : convincing
— com·pel·ling·ly adverb
Examples of COMPELLING
1. The novel was so compelling that I couldn’t put it down.
2. He made a compelling argument.
3. I would need a very compelling reason to leave my job.
4. She had a compelling need to share what she had heard.
BUT then you go on to show that you didn’t find his argument compelling at all. It appears that you almost allowed it to impinge but then fell back in line with the usual “think”. I am not trying to insult you but you were close to actually listening and then you put ear muffs on.
His arguments don’t ALWAYS have to be batted back by you. He does make sense if you just listen without the filter.
Jesse, There’s history here that I think provides context for Jim’s seeming lack of tolerance. Alan has a months long history of posting something fairly civil to get past my BIG BROTHER CENSORSHIP that requires some level of civility. Once he is on, he launches with very belittling, evaluative, and aggressive comm. So, I don’t blame Jim for seeming to over react, when he is probably anticipating what he’s seen time and time again.
Scott
” We all need to make it or none of us will make it’ is also a fallacy.”
Hmmm.. I have an understanding of this that I would like to share with you. To me the statement ” We all have to make it or none of us will make it” is totally spot on. When you consider that the “goal” of the Dynamics is “optimum survival across the Dynamics” then if I want my Dynamics to be optimum I want to Be, create, and Have my Dynamics surviving optimally which includes all other beings also surviving optimally across their Dynamics. Anything less, for me, is non optimum and therefor still needs work.
Assuming that the stated “goal” of the Dynamics is true, and I have certainty it is, and as we each have Dynamics, I conclude that at that level we all desire to achieve optimum across the Dynamics and thereby include all other beings.
Some may not agree, but that is how it works in my universe.
Love to you all my fellow Gods.
WW
Marty is the catalyst. We each make our own way based on circumstances and ability. I love this group. Thank you all for letting me contribute.
Yes, and the next section states (without reference to intent or calculation) “bringing civil suit against any Scientology organization or Scientologist including the nonpayment of bills or failure to refund without first calling the matter to the attention of the Chairman at Saint Hill and receiving a reply;”
My point was how the policy was “used”. I was staff and sea org. The GO intervened on ANY leaning toward any scientologist (including public) going to civil authories and it WASN’T done IF you wanted to remain a scientologist in good standing.
There was a time that this policy and the way it was implemented (enforced) would have prevented me from going to civil authorities for any reason. I know for a fact that it (and the ethics/GO enforcement of it) affected others in a similar manner.
The “church” does whatever it wants, legal or illegal.
Please don’t let the term “scientologist” prevent anyone from reporting abuse/illegal activity to the proper, civil authorities. And, don’t be fooled into thinking that the proper “line” is within the COS.
This is crucial and important now. Nobody and I mean it NOW, NOBODY has a RIGHT here to denigrate people’s intention to organize.
I am not going to the other extreme now and please people do not go to the other extreme either.
If there is a disagreement whether we should take further action and organize more or less, this has to be discussed keeping in mind that the people here are higher beings, really free people, warriors or visionaries and they just sit still.
So Mike R. I disagree with the way you answered to Virgil (Tom).
NOBODY is going to start on HIS own. WE ARE ALL GOING TO START. And as a matter of fact, if you haven’t noticed we have started.
We are just like hungry wolves here, so someone better find a new game or the game will be You. Remember that from Responsibilities of Leaders. Sorry, I trust that ref. no matter how Miscavige misapplies it to his sick purposes.
I know Miscavige. He was my leader once. Always Far Away from the troops.
Now I have my own troops. Yes, troops. This is a war Mike. And I am wound for a long time now. So, what’s the deal?
So, if it’s the orders that is a problem I could say that if I am allowed here to post orders or instructions as to what is needed to be done I can do it. And others can do it. Someone HAS to do it.
All Tom is saying IS for Christ’s sake, let’s give those people SOMETHING TO DO IN A MORE ORDERLY FASHION = Admin and policy.
If you want I can start of course with the help of people here. Like OK, let’s see who is coming to Greece for auditing, we have some stalled cases here (hahaha, I am going to take advantage of course). But jokes aside what TOM says here is we need some ORIENTATION now as PERCEPTION is already high enough. We can move to Div 2.
I am not going to accept any denigration of my intention to help the planet. I got it by the C of M, I can have it by anybody else now. But I am not going to accept it. And if Marty created the game here, Tom is right IMHO, we have to take responsibility for it. And you know it that LRH created policy to handle a planet and tech to handle thetans.
Discussion boards are good provided there is action after a certain point of time.
So which actions? Let’s see what each one of us here wants to do and what also needs to be done. Pretty simple. And then move ahead and start doing it. Let’s put ideas on the table and discuss this one thing: what is the next level we are going to move to. And what actions are we going to take.
10 years ago Marty and Mike when I was screaming in AOSHEU and CLO EU about the HCOBs on translations and I was being put on MEST work for Standard Tech and I was separated from my wife for more than 2 months for speaking up, and was locked and sleeping in the dorm of the stupid security guys who just followed orders no matter how rational it sounded to them that I speak about HCOBs (fuck them, they helped the Immunity thing and aren’t here yet) you were part of that monstrous INT MGMT. Then you came out and said sorry. OK, good. I don’t need any sorries though. I need those fucking HCOBs APPPPPPPPPPPLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEED right here and now! And I mean it!
I stayed on the ethics side 0f it for so long. Well let me tell you now boys and girls that there is another side to this translations thing here. We are all grown up now.
The lack of translations on Tape were the Why for Europe. LRH said that on LRH ED 5, 6 or something.
So, imagine now with Europe being so fucking PTS to the EU (actually the global enslavers for who I don’t hear so much here, which should also be discussed unless you guys think there are none anymore), so Europe being so PTS it can’t do shit about the planet. China, India the Arabs , the Russians could. And look what is happening in Russia. LRH books are being bunned. why?
Has anybody thought about this? Are we going to just discuss just DM or are we going to pick up those issues too?
Do you have any idea what is happening in Greece, the guinea pig of the international banks? Do you care about this?
So, back to the translations Tapes.
That cut all SOURCE to the world. That did it. The no application of those HCOBs. For many years now. The Tech has not spread around the globe in Academies as COURSES, no just books. as TAPE course for people to do courses in Academies.
I have studied the subject. One aspect of what LRH’s intention was for the Tech for the planet. He wanted fast translations on Tape not books in the first place.
So, China, Asia and other countries. Africa, oh, Africa, give me a course in African or everybody there speaks english? Maybe. But the rest of the planet? Where is the translated Tech.
So those HCOBs and their non application is not just an Ethics matter, it’s a Tech and Planetary Dissemination matter. And I know it.
And it’s a perfect moment when the world goes mad, mad, mad, for
ALL OF US TO COME OUT AND SAY: “HEY, HOW COME YOU DON’T APPLY HCOBS, DM?”
PERFECT DEAD AGENT. Perfect Stable Datum, an HCOB not being applied. What more evident to that for a Scientologist.
All the rest is Confusion so you pick up ONE stable datum.
One little, poor HCOB by LRH which has never been cancelled.
So, this is ORG BOARDING now and this is, I don’t know, Div 7 and Div 1 and dead agent the shit out of DM?
Our allies, the under the RADAR ones who have comm lines with inside the church Scientologists can make a campaign out there and we can help create it. And say “hey, we found out some HCOBs that are not applied and can CREATE PLANETARY PEACE. FOR THE ARABS, THE CHINESE ETC. We need to inform Mgmt about them and get a bonus because somehow they haven’t noticed.”
You know a plan.
I can tell you more but you get the point. It’s NO little thing.
Those specific HCOBs. And we see about the rest of the crimes afterwards.
I don’t hold you responsible any longer for the HCOBs. You are out of that monster. But I can hold anyone responsible for just playing with my sanity. I am going NUTS. Either I do something or I die in the attempt. This forum, if Marty does not want to be a leader of it, belongs to everybody then. Because Scientology belongs to everybody and we have a forum here now, and the people in it want to do things. I never got into Scientology to… discuss. I got there to act. If there is something I am missing here, write to me at thetamag@yahoo.gr
Google the words “Private investigator arrested” and read up on how and why PI’s get arrested. On this note, breaking news from Colorado:
“GREELEY, Colo. – A local private investigator is under arrest, for what some say is simply doing his job. And a Weld County father is in jail, simply for hiring the investigator. Weld County District Attorney Ken Buck is charging both with felony stalking…
“We talked with other private investigators who expressed concern that routine surveillance was being considered a felony. They say the GPS devices fall into a gray area. Some private investigators use them, but many do not.”
ref: http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-schudel-arrested-txt,0,1711028.story
This Colorado arrest got the attention of every PI in the US. Under powerful new anti-stalking laws, it is possible to get PI’s and their employers arrested; contact your local police or county prosecutor for details. The emphasis is this: PI’s are private citizens. They have no special rights and are not law enforcement officers of any kind. Here are some points to consider:
* Is a PI stalking you? If there is a pattern, the PI may be deemed to be stalking you. Therefore, keep a log of date and times. Get license plates and physical descriptions of the PI’s for police. You may be able to get the PI arrested or get a TRO. In either case, a police record is created that can be used in a civil lawsuit if you sue the PI.
* Is the PI harassing or terrorizing you? Is the PI making you fear for your life? If so, tell the police or DA those words. It is illegal to stalk, intimidate, or terrorize you for your religious beliefs as an Independent Scientologist.
* Is the PI carrying a concealed weapon, even with a permit? If you suspect so, call 911 and tell police that you fear an armed PI is stalking you. Even if a PI is former law enforcement, you can get them detained or even arrested. Again, you want to get a police report created. This is a public document. You can use it to go after the PI’s license.
* You can sue a PI in civil court for intentional infliction of emotional distress,. Sue for big money: No private citizen has the right to inflict emotional distress on your, your spouse, family, or friends. Get enough evidence and sue the PI for all of his or her assets. Sue their employer. PI firms have insurance and their insurer may settle with you to avoid a legal case. The PI may want to settle. If you win a civil lawsuit, you can then go after the PI’s license.
* Sue a PI if you catch him or her lying to your friends or family. Go after their license: “California’s Private Investigator Act (“PIA”)(1) prohibits private investigators from committing “any act constituting dishonesty or fraud.”(2)The court of appeal in Wayne v. Bureau of Private Investigators and Adjusters(3) broadly applied this prohibition. In Wayne, an investigator retained by the defendants’ insurance companies visited accident victims at home and misled them about who had retained him. The investigator never lied but did not identify his principals. The court of appeal upheld suspension of the investigator’s license”
Ref: http://www.privacyrights.org/ar/PIs-Caragozian.htm
* Sue for invasion of privacy: “Many attorneys do not place much importance on knowing a PI’s credentials or history of success and sources, nor do they care whether the PI they use crosses the thin line of legality. They just want “information.” They do not realize that with this attitude they can jeopardize their case, even wind up in court along with the investigator who oversteps the boundaries of appropriate behavior. Fearing just that is the greatest worry for some lawyers according to Brian Rishwain, a partner in the Los Angeles law firm of Neville, Johnson & Rishwain. One of Mr. Rishwain’s clients sued the opposing counsel and their investigators for invasion of privacy, claiming that the investigators had already done so by misrepresenting their identity to secure information about a real estate dispute. A California appellate court ruled that indeed there was an invasion of privacy. The investigators were also sued on the grounds that a private investigator is effectively an agent of a lawyer and his client. ”
ref: http://www.mcminvestigations.com/attorney-info.html
* Tom Cruise was sued for using a PI: http://covert-pi.com/blog/2010/01/01/five-questions-to-ask-your-private-investigator/
* Independents who have been spied on should pool some money and have an attorney file a class action lawsuit alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress and mental cruelty, harassment, invasion of privacy, etc. Sue the PI’s and whoever hired him or her. Fight back.
*Out the PI’s by name online. Post their name and photos with date, time, and circumstances.
* Pay to get a PI’s publicly available data on arrests, divorces, bankruptcies. Know your enemy.
* Go after the PI’s license with your State PI licensing bureau. Document violations: PI’s speeding, running red lights, and driving recklessly may constitute possible felony endangerment. Call the police if a PI breaks the law.
/////
News just in:
I am in comm with a staff member at the local Seattle Org and this person tells me the Org is a ghost town. That staff are trying to put on a brave front but that it is starting to become obvious that the Idle Org is already a failure and this only weeks after the “Grind Opening”. This staff member is feeding me valuable info and is going to leave at the right time. Looks like some on the Kool aide CAN wake up. Ha,ha!! Boo-ya!!
Another friend by the name of “Invictus” has started his own Feild group. This guy is OT and a veteran in Scientology. He has been contacting OT7’s and OT 8’s. He thinks real big!! Watch out dm it is all starting to crumble down…
O.K. So obviously I could see the stats down, no one having fun, high stress, etc – I guess after 18 years of Scn and never being given service (until my marriage counseling which ended in DM breaking us up and my ex blowing the service), I still have a bank, big one, and maybe I’m just a little (ok, who am I bullshitting, right), MORE than a little bitter, and was surprised he wasn’t sitting in a straight jacket rocking in a corner by now, or running around with his head on fire, but now I get it — HE IS!!!
Now that I see it, I don’t feel so good.
Not that I think he deserves pity or feel sorry for him – he made his own bed. But many times in the last year, many a person has told me that my ex, due to his misdeeds was indeed suffering whether I could see it or not – a fact which never made me happy.
As evil, slimy, and crappy as these people may be right now — I have a feeling the way the universe is set up, we either all make it – or none really make it.
Okay, but my plea is let’s all get past that. I’m particularly sensitive to that sort of thing so I may be the one out of order here. I apprecate the time and effort you put into this blog and you are doing a great job. I am not here to raid your site with my opinions, but sometimes they just slip out. Like I said I’m not a passive person, I can’t help it! Jim are we Okay? Meet me on FB
Re No. 1: Within the IRS, you would find it in the Criminal Investigation Division:
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=98398,00.html
I would think that every major field office of the IRS has a CI Division.
Just as a side note: About 6 years ago as part of a one-man-effort, I delivered the results of my private research into the activities of the organization to the IRS (through the US attorney’s office). This is what came out of it:
Click to access ottmann_documents-20020506-gd-reply3.pdf
This would give you an idea of how they operate. Of course, I never heard back from them.
Ask yourself this? Are you afraid of your “church”?
Are you afraid to use your own name?
Are you afraid to say what you think without hiding?
Not as a make wrong, but just look at it. To me, this is PTSness. Why should you be afraid of an SP group? The only power an SP has is the power to restimulate. Don’t let them restimulate you, you are better than that.
The only thing to fear is fear itself.
Don’t be a “fear-bot”. Just say fuck you!! Go ahead try it!! It is very liberating.
All men die, but not all men truly live.. LOL!!
Marty –
I got to say my piece to Jim, and he had an equal opportunity to respond.
I feel good about it.
I appreciate you giving me the chance to stand up for myself on your blog.
Allen
ULTIMATELY – we are all responsible for what happens to us – good bad or neutral.
Scientology didn’t say it first – the buddha did and I believe before him, the Dao.
HOWEVER, the time to remind someone that he’s ultimately responsible for what happens to him is not when he’s bleeding, lying in the street having just been hit by a car.
Same could be said of those who leave scientology and are bitter or broken or scared or just fend up.
And frankly, I’ve found that there are so many causes and conditions that lead to a particular event, that being able to pin point it to ONE cause — oh this overt over here (one chain of overts) — is perhaps the biggest failing in scientology.
How do you KNOW which lifetime triggered which event which triggered which event and so it goes.
Life is just too complicated for pat answers.
So yes ultimately — you are responsible for all the bad things that happen to you — and you are responsible for forgiving yourself for all the bad things you did that caused you to now be a puddle on the floor.
The method that scientology uses to create guilt is wrong.
It’s CONTROL based. It’s power OVER others.
That is what is wrong IMHO.
Not the piece about ULTIMATE responsibility. That is in actual fact quite empowering.
WH
Yes.
It seems that Marty is well on his way to doing a VERY thorough Liability Formula..
By the time you are done Marty you won’t have to ask to be part of the group, you will have won all of our admiration and support from your sheer balls, sincerity and determination. I also am pretty certain that getting our admiration is not why you are doing all this but it is one of the products of “getting ethics right.”
VVWD!
WW
Jesse ~~
I want you to know that I really enjoyed our marathon live comm cycle, filling in so much and connecting all the dots.
The FBI received 300 seperate reports of THIS and THAT in the last year. I am sure OSA is trying hard or will try to use Freedom of Information of ACT to find out what is being sent in ~~ but NO documents are released connected with on going investigations…..
DM gets away with a lot under “religious” cloaking in spite to being a THUG.
But for how long ?
Synthia,
You presume I have some ‘filter’ or as I would put it a Ser Fac that I hold in place of my own observation.
Allen’s comments can be ‘compelling’. So? They are routinely 1.1. That’s ‘apparent theta – intent vicious’.
Who is failing to confront what here?
I took the brunt of DM’s hatred for me, my wife, my marriage, LRH in a nightmare of relentless crushing attack. If I can rise above that to embrace with forgiveness those that were party to it, and assume responsibility for life, then I know any other being can – including this guy.
Fucati
I think you will find, upon closer inspection, that DM is TOTALLY caved in. What vaguely appears to be a being operating at some level, is actually a being who has so little free Theta that he is virtually a total puppet of his reactive mind. There really is no David Miscavage left.
The thetan has long ago “left the building”.
WW
Grasshopper and Jim:
Even though DM uses an Iron hand over 2d and marriage (the word is that ALL marriages are forbidden at Int Base as of the last years) ~~ as Mike Rinder pointed out ~~
He can hardly speak without using highly vulgar language at every meeting, all day long. He apparently cannot speak any other way.
C**ck S**cking mother F***Cker !
C*nt
Take your mouth out of his d***ck and answer my question…
Pull your d***ck out of his ass
The only expansion you know is ramming your d*ck up his ass
This is often screamed at to the top Execs of Scientology who are all under “Provisional SP Declare.” a DM made up status.
on and on and on and on. The 2nd dynamic in its most EXTREME vulgarity is the tone and climate and culture that DM sets the example for as “Pope” of Scientology
Allen
Per the understanding and application of the HCOB 2May 85, “Responsibility, Definition Of” and the concept that “you are totally responsible for the condition you find yourself in” I do not see where “blame” comes in.
I consider these two pieces of tech or wisdom as giving a being back their birthright. I am Cause.. and I wouldn’t want it any other way!
WW
Doc,
This remark “Because of the teachings you have espoused above, Scientologists have learned to blame the victim for the perpetrator’s crime ” is NOWHERE in the subject of Scientology.
It is NOT a principle I espouse.
This is:
“Responsibility is the ability and willingness to assume the status of full source and cause for all efforts and counter-efforts on all dynamics.
There is no compromise with full responsibility. It lies above 20.0 on the tone scale and is descended from in order to effect randomity but is descended from with the full knowledge of its assumptions. It means responsibility for all acts, all emotions
on every dynamic and in every sphere as one’s own. It includes such “disrelated” data as the death of an individual one has never met on a highway on which one has never travelled at the hands of a stranger no matter how culpable. One does not send to find for whom the bell tolls without full willingness to have tolled it and to have caused the cause of its tolling.
There is a scale of responsibility between full responsibility and full other-responsibility where the former is above 20.0 and the latter is at 0.0. Complete negation of responsibility is complete admission of being under the complete control of the
environment. Assumption of full responsibility is a statement of control of the environment and persons within it without necessity of control.
There is a cycle of responsibility. One acts and seeks to negate his responsibility for such action by placing the “reason” at another’s door. This works as long as one succeeds in making another accept responsibility for the action. The moment this
action fails and another does not accept it, the entire action comes back at one. It is then a matter of fault and fixed (by another) blame and stirs the emotion of guilt.”
The latter, and its failure and the consequence of that failure, is applicable to this li’l interchange re Allen.
It is very easy to know if your phone is tapped. See Below.
It is highly illegal to do so and DM’s cult would tread carefully before doing this given the speed of internet exposure.
DM’s cult have screamed to high heaven on Anonymous Hacking.
For them to then do likewise…..
In a nutshell, your cell phone would run out of battery in 20 mins if it was compromised. All cell phones work on battery. The battery is used a lot more if it is doing “other work”
See this You Tube video for a simple explanation ~
RJ : I see. Please name a couple of writers who were discovered by the contest. I sincerely would like to know as I can’t think of one, and I appreciate facts. As for the SFWA, would you point out evidence that the Writers of the Future is highly respected? Not that it’s significant, but my impression is there are mixed opinions and I’d like to know if it’s otherwise.
I understand what Hubbard’s intention as an artist was for Writers of the Future. The way it is run appears to be a completely different story. Please provide facts if I’m mistaken!
As with all other activities within the Organization — Writers of the Future is run and managed by staff, isn’t it? Just my personal experience, but I’ve seen underlying and other agenda, i.e. to promote Scientology. This in itself would be all right if there wasn’t effort to create the illusion of separation. IMHO, to the degree it undisclosed, it’s a form of manipulation (lying to control), making it a biased and insincere activity.
I think CS Lewis is a writer who managed to beautifully write religious metaphor in the Narnia series without compromising the art. However, had the Vatican started having “Narnia Workshops & Contests” with the underlying agenda of getting more money, priests and parishioners for the Church, all the while hiding the purpose the integrity of the activity as a literary endeavor would be diluted and corrupted, as would the integrity of Catholicism. ( sure, they “love writers” too, and want to “back up LRH”, but that’s not the point)
What is “poisoning the well” — an apt metaphor you use — is the seeming other-intention that underlies activities with which the Organization aligns itself: be it the Arts, The Christmas Parade, the Boy Scouts, the fund raising for Haiti. They are above all PR activities. A PR outreach itself would be okay if there was sincerity. But how sincere is pretending to embrace the values of the groups used to gain “social positioning” in light of the REALITY that the Organization is poisoned by use and abuse culture? I refer to the rampant practice of shunning members who disagree, and stalking, and slander employed as regular operating basis.
These things to me appear to be justified by a group Borg-type “assimilation” justifier — by an arrogant assumption of superiority over others, imposing other determined activity. Itt borders on “disdain” of “outsiders” (unless one is being “admired” per the Tone Scale by the reg … Astonishing and disturbing all that admiration and “friendship” can turn on a dime).
Sadly, today I can only conclude that even the actual services and products that the Church is supposed to be offering– counseling and training — is used as bait in a money-making machine that puts endless obstacles, retreads, redos in a labyrinth route.
Knowing how to manipulate others because you know the Tone Scale or how restimulation works, knowing how to slam people’s buttons does not a god make. — no matter how brilliant and “noble” the cause that supposedly justifies it.
It is not “doing what you’re doing when you’re doing it” when there is nondisclosure that Writers of the Future is a “Church” operation, run by Sea Org staff. The well is poisoned by the misundertoods that drive rabid robotism and fanaticism which obstacles sincere ARC and PAN DETERMINED points of view — something Scientology is supposed to empower.
That Insincerity is anethema to real writers, to artists. That insincerity drives the false “value” system at “Celebrity Centre”, where $$$$$ equals celebrity. I’ve seen “care” levels fall and rise in multiple staff members depending on how much money was thought to be in my and others’ bank accounts. I’ve seen psychophantic blatherings to materialistic self-worshipping messes, and real artists were less “important.” Real artists have the raw power to affect change.
Hubbard was about genuine art and genuine communication, which is the driving illumination in a society. If “Church” management and “Celebrity Centre” really duplicated him, they would not be worshipping the likes of the Rich and UnFamous gold encrusted status seekers.
Then again, mediocrity pervades most things today. I personally think there is a bit of a stigma to being an “American Idol” winner. It’s like throwing artists to the coliseum. For the money God. And “manufacturing” safe, contrived demogrpahically “art product” to throw to the masses with their white bread and beer.
Why not really nurture the arts and sciences in society instead? As the Chinese proverb says: “Water the tree, and it will give you fruit.” Those thinking only of the fruit neglect the tree.
Thanks for listening.
Marty,
They can try to use him as a pawn…but he looks to me, not the other way around.
…and the biggest conflict/outpoint I see with the Organization running Writers of the Future is censorship, another one of the top outpoints with which the hijacked brand has become synonymous.
How can we reconcile that outpoint? For speaking an opinion — something writers do best — one is subjected to stalking, spying, and devious campaigns??
Writers also like to read. How can an Organization that discourages reading of any other philosophies other than itself pretend to sponsor Writers of the Future? What will those “championed” writers contribute?
Allen Stanfield,
You said:
“…Because of the teachings you (Jim Logan), have espoused above, Scientologists have learned to blame the victim for the perpetrator’s crime.”
I say:
Because of the psychotic, criminal cult David Miscavige has been carefully building for more than thirty years, Scientologists have learned to blame the whistle blowers for the perpetrator’s crime.
The “argument” between you and Jim is from a 3rd party known as David Miscavige.
I believe that if you focus on him as a correct target, and drop the resentment toward everyone else, your life will become instantly much more enjoyable.
IMHO
Jesse,
I’ve never aspired to some sort of static state of monkdomhood. Not my goal. I prefer to remain volatile on the Tone Scale. Serenity of Beingness is ‘no game-no contact’.
I have game and I contact. Allen has been ‘contacted’. Why else do you think he posts here?
I figure I’m granting him waaaay beingness by acking and engaging him. That’s purty darn nice o’moi. All things considered.
ANoAnon, lol. Love that film. 😀
…by the way, the reason it matters to me is that I admire Hubbard and personally share his vision for civilization, heart and soul.
Marty,
I wasn’t aware of the CST connection.
However there is no doubt that the contest itself helped the career of various writers in the Sci Fi genre and continues to do so just as the Ol’man intended.
It’s contribution to the Church of Squirrelotology is minimal compared to the big money investors like Adnan Khashoggi and his lovely family or TC and company.
The fact is that you can take any salutary activity and pervert it such as the Church of Scientology for example.
This doesn’t mean the activity itself has some kind of “agenda”. It means those in control of it do.
Virgil
“Anything other than an audience” is the classical church eval/inval talk I heard for years.
We are all OTs and what do you think we are doing ?
Just being an audience ? Then the whole blog here would be worthless.
IMHO
LO
I recently did a comparison between an old green 1970s version of Introduction to Scientology Ethics and the Basics version. I was astonished to see how much the book had expanded in volume and I especially noticed how the list of suppressive acts seemed to have grown exponentially and ridiculously. Go look at it if you don’t believe me, but for instance if two students in a course room talk to each other the course supervisor can potentially be declared suppressive. As we used to say in the military in radio communication style, “What the fuck – over.” Two students talking is equivalent to a REAL suppressive act like murder??? I would say that indicates a complete inability to evaluate relative importances! And therefore, not LRH.
Ron Matlock
Not to make light of this in ANY way, but I’ve just been reading about the new movie Red (starring Bruce Willis, John Malcovich, Helen Mirren and Morgan Freeman).
“Red (based on the graphic novel by Warren Ellis) is the story of several ‘retired, extremely dangerous,’ (aka Red) CIA agents who have been framed by ‘the agency.’ The ‘hunters’ have become the ‘hunted’ and must now band together to fight for survival.” — Screenrant
Looks great (and hilarious!). Trailer below, if anyone’s interested…! 😀
Thanx, great collection of materials there !
Synthia
Anyone who can read that and be moved to self-reflection is already dead.
lunamoth
What kind of scam was this one?
Jim,
thanks for the PAB references. I assume you are not quoting them to criticize LRH for writing some of his confidential OSA instructions.
HA! Good one!
Allen,
I also rarely agree with what you write, for the same reasons stated by Windhorse below. But you are 100% correct in this statement:
“Responsibility must include separating out the correct ownership of all the factors involved in a situation, and assigning that ownership correctly – without misownership – and seeing that all distinct elements are cleaned up – each back to their correct source.”
This is straight Scientology, straight LRH. He states it just like this (not necessarily word for word), many times, many lectures. I wish I had an exact reference for you, the most recent time I recall hearing it was on a CD, perhaps Anatomy of Cause but don’t quote me on that.
One way Ron put it that I distinctly recall is: if Joe caused a situation & you say you caused it, you’ll make things worse. If you caused the situation but you say Joe caused it, you’ll also make things worse.
Only by assigning the correct causation will you be able to as-is an unwanted condition.
It is true that many in Scientology have a hard time grasping these truths, even when they come straight from LRH. Among many, if not most, there’s a belief that “if I’m critical, I must have overts” or “if he/she got sick, they must have pulled it in” etc etc. I’ve heard these sentiments so many times over the years from even highly trained Scientologists. I see this as a sort of viral alter-is that permeates the Scientology community.
But I NEVER heard that from LRH. It is NOT Scientology.
I’ve always supposed it was either misunderstoods, or ideas from earlier subjects/practices getting in the way. One often hears similar sentiments from believers in Kharma (and for all I know, they’ve got Kharma wrong too).
There are processes in Scientology whose sole purpose is to help people increase their ability to correctly assign ownership, responsibility, source.
I’ve also heard LRH talk about responsibility this way: you can take responsibility for handling a situation, regardless of whether you had anything to do with creating it. That’s a sign of a big being (IMHO).
However, this approach or attitude has nothing in common with victimology, an example of which might be “I’ll take responsibility for what happened to me & others by telling everyone how bad YOU are.” Which is what we often hear from the chronic natterers and to which many of us react rather negatively. Yelling “You did me in” through any and all available megaphones is no way to take responsibility.
Publius
Yeah, good catch LO. A low, and very inaccurate, blow.
Whew. Smokin’.
Here are a few more ideas I believe will impinge hard in pickets, and show church Scientologists that we really are Scientologists legitimately protesting …
STOP KSW ABUSE!
Scientologists for KSW!
Scientologists for PURE LRH!
Stop Altering LRH Tech
End the Squirrelling!
REMOVE the Squirrels!
Find the REAL SP’s!
We want 100% LRH!
“Look. Don’t Listen” – LRH
Say NO to Destruction of Tech!
Keep LRH Tech Alive!
IMO, these show verisimilitude to members of CofM. We’ve got to move them up to a level of believability and curiosity. How can they possibly not wonder what’s going on with these signs?
Eventually, but hopefully soon, they will cognite we are real Scientologists.
Many anon protesters are doing a horrible job of actually connecting to church Scientologists. The church members just look at them as loony bins.
Be WE Scientologists have the power to turn that around, and can truly connect with church members, IMO. Good ol’ ARC.
Theo, I read the first three paragraphs and decided to answer: bullshit. Production talks, bullshit walks. And the bullshit is DM’s bullshit, being adopted and repeatedly broadcast in the comments that Mike is answering to: having to have before you can do. Many fine people are delivery outside the church of Scientology and they didn’t need Daddy to set them up or tell them what to do.
IMO, it behooves independent Scientologists take much more responsibility in the area of pickets, rather than leaving it up to anon picketers. Many of the annoners are at cross purposes with real Scientologists. Some even want the entire destruction of LRH Tech! The annoners main public they end up connecting to are mostly non-Scientologist passer-byers of the Orgs, not church Scientologists.
So I see two challenges:
1) To nudge annoners to agree with our new style of picketing much more effectively to Scientology public and staff Scientologists so the annoners harmonize with our effort.
2) To truly connect to church Scientologists in pickets in a way that enable’s them to LOOK instead of self-sabotaging their real salvation by blindsiding themselves to Truth.
I think their efforts are much better spent deliverying or contributing to the delivery of Scientology.
RJ, That really sums it up well.
Jesse,
I’m very happy you choose to post here. I haven’t had comm with you for ages and it’s wonderful havingness. Of course we’re OK.
Not passive? Me neither.
Planetary Clearing? To do that, you need to get people auditing and training in great numbers. And to do that, you first NEED TO GET PEOPLE INTERESTED IN SCIENTOLOGY.
I have a suggestion about that at the end of this post which MIGHT work today. but I certainly don’t have any “ultimate” type of answer.
I do know that up until the early 80s, Scientology as a religion/movement was steadily growing. Had growth just continued at that pace, I think today we would be well on our way to our ultimate goal.
“Wog succesfull actions” in establishment of religion on Earth certainly work, but they work at a great cost in terms of individual freedoms.
People used to become intrested in Scientology because of its data on expanded personal ability to postulate in life and to lead a “non reactive mind” life.
When LRH decided (maybe he just couldn’t help himself) to play the role of “the commodore” (a combination king/legistature/judiciary which is what an autocrat is – even a very enlightened one), he set the wheels in motion for the NEXT King to take over, and as we know now, Miscavige started doing so when LRH was still alive (though in personal decline, at least physically).
As I have noted before, LRH’s methods established the first viable international religion on Earth since Islam in the 7th century.
At the same time, he also put into practice policies and methods of operation/ behavior which have created the current scene in the church. These policies weighted the church down in a heavy buearacracy with lots of “authority”, offenses and penalties, dictatorial jailings and “executions”, tons of money and power over church members personal lives – in other words, wog religion on planet Earth.
My ultimate point being here – there are probably close to 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Did you know that it is a capital offense for a Muslim to leave his faith for another religion? There may be as many Christians (though not usually as committed to their religious practice as Muslims) and in Christianity, the “only way to the Father” (salvation and heaven) is through Jesus – there IS no other way. There are of course probably even more Buddhists in the world as well as committed Hindus and smaller sects.
So, who becomes a Scientologist? Back in the day (1960s – 70s especially) it was that small group of individuals who were either seeking another truth than was commonly available and/or who found that what they read about Scientology REALLY INDICATED to them and really excited them (this is what happened to me after being body routed to the org as a 19 year old college student in 1970). And this was all done in a cultural context when young people were questioning authority and accepted practices. And I quickly joined staff as did many other young people to become involved in the 3rd and 4th dynamics. And became a Cl. IV auditor fairly soon after that.
But the Scientology third dynamic “system” was becoming one based on authority, orders, compliance, FORCE, big money, coercion, etc all in a military type context with uniforms, ranks, etc. Along with communist/nazi style purges, where long term Scientology heroes like David Mayo were discredited and thrown out of the church.
And the “wog wheel” turned as Scientology more and more began to imitate/dramatize the worst aspects of wog religion/politics, now even with a Sea Org concentration camp system, young Nazi youth types, thought control, continual harping on the “enemy” – “psychs” and so on and forced control of parishioners’ money and assets.
So….who wants to join this group now? And you talk about planetary clearing?
And PLEASE don’t elect David Miscavige as cause of all this. Yes, he is VERY able and clever in the uses of power, coercion and creating games and enemies for the parishioners – otherwise he wouldn’t have been in power almost 30 years.
LRH’s third dynamic system was indeed workable as witness its success, but it had DEEP flaws in it which have promoted the use of authority , force, punishment and abuse. Ron built in some safeguards, but they were neither emphasized enough or practical in the face of actual power.
All to be discussed more later, yes?
A “possible way to go” for the future:
Small “Indpendent Scientology Reading Rooms” (Christian Science model) in all major cities and smaller ones too. Manned by volunteers. Full LRH library and equipment to listen to the lectures to and a quiet place to read LRH. These organizations would be aligned with independent auditors, so that those who wanted auditing could get it.
And maybe this would be a way to get people interested in Scientology data again.
Jesse, I was reading some of the same of what you expressed. I appreciate you expressing it, too.
NYPA
Tony,
I guess Seattle is now less than an IDLE org. It is sputtering on its way toward being a DEAD engine!
Tom,
I don’t think we’re at the stage of organize. I’ve you’ve been on the old man’s lines then you know the first thing is Production! Action and not significance.
Just three little words here and a big exclam!
MOQ!!
You da Man!!
I think Jesse is missing data and if not then he is off base.
🙂
Tony
Hi Jim, I can attest to the fact that you are nowhere near passive. You’re a drummer for Christ sake! I still like you anyway : )
Agreed. I apologize if I unintentionally communicated that meaning. Just suggesting some ideas for consideration.
Bravo, Cat Daddy! I couldn’t agree more.
Wow, this is hot, hot hot! Thank you J Swift for this great information!
I 100% agree this is much better use of time for those competent auditors trained to deliver pure LRH. But for those who are not, there are other actions they can do to contribute, such as the ideas I maybe not so gently suggested. lol.
Perhaps I missed some history somewhere in the last 10 years. Is it safe to outright open up an Org now calling it an Independent Church of Scientology without fear of attack by CofM?
I hope I’m wrong, but I thought that the only way one can still get away with delivering Scientology outside the official CofM, without putting themselves in harms way, was through a basis of a one-on-one (not a group org) “clandestine” operation.
Virgil: Seconded.
Marty?
JSWIFT:
This is a very thorough and useful hat write up. I see a huge amount of potential in future use. Thanks for compiling all this and posting on this blog.
As you well know DM, lives, breathes, thinks, and does his THUGGERY via
Private Investigators.
Therefore your compilation above is useful to say the least.
Fucati
If I may chime in here…..
Regarding “justice” and “hope” .. I would not recommend waiting for justice to happen. Justice and ethics are things that YOU create.
You will inevitably live in the universe that you create. Create a good one for yourself and your loved ones. Create a good one for those who have been betrayed and abused. Do not waste any time creating anything else if you can help it and if you cannot … continue to pursue personal freedom, at least until you can.
Create something truly beautiful! You do have it in you to do so!
“Your abilities are much greater than anyone ever dared allow you to believe.” LRH
WW
Ok if I am your leader, here is your first order. Read the blog again from day one, being very certain you do not go by any misunderstoods. And if at the point you are still demanding orders, then word clear the OEC.
Come on Marty,
The juice starts from the 4th paragraph.
You should read my whole comment as I said it is crucial.
Sorry, I read ALL of your’s, each time for 1 1/2 now.
Of course this is my own self determinism and I do not intend to re-create a C of M, by passing self determinisms.
But as I said we are grown ups now.
I don’t like confrontations as I consider that what you and Mike are doing needs support.
But then I don’t like being NOT-ISed either.
As I was with the HCOBs once. Back then nobody heard me. There was a huge distance and a bureaucracy in the SO. Yes! Do we have it here? Nope.
And don’t think that I have NOT done as much as I could here in Greece.
I am the only person as an Independent here in Greece who has done something for a few people and did 6 TV shows attacking the C of M and the State for what they are: brothers actually from now on.
I called an auditor twice here to audit us a bit.
I actually started Ignazio Tidu as an Independent auditor. Never said that like that but now I will.
I am modest enough up to a point. I am polite up to a point and never really push what I really did. But maybe you need to know this, except if you read my comments up to the first, two paragraphs.
I don’t care Marty. I have given my half life this lifetime to LRH and I don’t have a must have with anyone now.
If you understand I am spitting MY guts now, like you did a couple of posts before and I pointed that out to you and said, don’t worry buddy, we can audit you on this, even long distance.
Who is auditing me on those HCOBs?
NOBODY! NO BODY. So, I push my own little thing here and there as I did in the church. But there it was BIG obviously because I was kept imprisoned so that I shut up and be made docile. Now I am here in the middle east almost and not a threat to anyone. Raising my children like a good father and a good citizen.
But one day, Marty…
Anyway, you said about theories and bullshit, I don’t want you to get started on romanticism now…
So, I started Ignazio and now he is going to Europe auditing people. He doesn’t even have time to come over. He is so booked!!! And I am happy.
One thing I am not happy. Where is Ignazio now?
And then I need money to get him back.
But I started him as an auditor. He wouldn’t believe he could do it a year ago.
So, where is he now? I need the money to do it.
If I was on staff (which by the way I AM, I always have been staff for LRH, what I do here is, yes LO, I am writing for an audience here, we ALL are, the Lurkers and lord knows what they are going to do, so I am writing for them, too) I wouldn’t need money. I always got my auditing and my whatever bridge (=sec checks) as Staff.
You don’t want to take responsibility for that whole thing, OK, fine.
But I do and I am through my writing. It’s the only thing left to me.
I don’t think I think the same way as you and it is my right to not agree with you.
As to the HCOBs on translations I am so sorry to see, not you, but Scientologists in general, inside and outside (the same for me) not being able to enforce one stable point upon this mess called “the church”.
Not everybody has the time to create central blogs, Marty.
You, Steve, Silvia Kusada and some others have.
But remember, you too are building this thing on one thing: the trust of the Independent Scientologist.
Maybe you can survey people as Tom said and find out what they want to do. And those who want to do, let’s get them to do and those who want to talk and communicate let them talk and communicate. Two different breeds of people. Can’t always fit together.
Excellent link, Cat Daddy.
Only when all of LRH original and unaltered written and audio works are in torrent files will LRH Tech finally be safe, IMO.
Hi Joe, this was really nicely written. Really made sense to me.
I think you did a good job explaining Marty’s viewpoint on the matter, If I get it right.
I know initiative and how it can work. And it is true, though Max Hauri many times here tried to get us to do something as a course room, this never happened.
Now I am hooking up with various groups, political, on-the-fringe type of groups, here in Greece and we are organizing third dynamics and maybe I could do it there, because with the local ex-Scientologists (I wouldn’t really call anyone Independent from Greece, since no one is even writing anything here or anywhere as far as I know) I have given up. They will have some cognitions in the future.
But then Tom and I, talking about “planetary” clearing maybe meant the same thing as you. You see one word “planetary” throws one off.
At least I mean planetary, like on a global basis and somehow aided/assisted/coordinated via a central/focal point (which through the web now doesn’t even have to be a MEST location as 3-4 people can do that as a team deciding upon things, from various locations).
Imagine Joe (and yes, I am a theoritician but postulates work) we the Independents decide to give it a shot. And we have this much of money set aside for various reasons. So, some missions have opened in various places and we want to open one in Spain.
So we can send two great guys there and establish a little mission. Help them put it there.
Who are the guys? who cares? There are many guys who can and would like to do it in the future.
That’s all I am saying as to having a “Leader” or some people leading this thing.
We can all do it. Decide and do it. But there must be policy which is made know and accepted by all.
And on this note I would like to let you, Joe think a bit on policy.
Because I think that you were a bit harsh with LRH on policy. It was not his fault Joe. He put the lines there. It was your’s and my fault and this is why we are still here, I guess. So, you see another reason why I am wounded?
This is not leading anywhere as long as we cannot duplicate successful actions. If you think that we are going to do it just with Ethics and little Tech and no Admin at ALL, I don’t think so… that’s all I have been saying all along here.
Wind Walker,
Thank you so much for the post. You are EXACTLY RIGHT.
I have been doing my best and will continue.
I appreciate the kind words and support.
Although justice and hope are mine to create, and I am doing my best, your post has also given me just that – and I appreciate you for it.
Fucati
Dr. Faust,
Thank you for the data. I appreciate that.
Fucati
Karen,
FUCK. I’m a peace activist.
Thus the need for an attorney. Luckily he told me I have been completely following the law and protecting myself well. Just wanted to make sure – an ounce of prevention…
But the good news is no symptoms here!!!! Yea!
Thanks for the post and vid.
Fucati
WW,
I do believe you are correct sir!
Thanks for the reply, it makes alot of sense, and looking back I can see that. Only a completely out of control lunatic with no reasoning ability at all would do what he has been doing.
Fucati
Awesome J-Swift.
I will keep this data in my files and use it if needed.
🙂
Tony
Jesse,
🙂
p.s. not on FB. We’ll get together on other lines.
Hey Cat, whatever works for you. Study away!
Mark,
Thanks for filling in the gaps on the story with Vaughn and Stacy. The black ops and dirty tricks were sheer inhumanity & insanity.
My experiences were similar to his which he writes about at Creston and Newberry, being at the latter 3 years & as well as working for Pat prior to RVY arriving and getting familiar with the place & person. He was an excellent writer, but as such embellished things a bit from just pure facts so they became more interesting to the reader – I disagree with some of his deductions and conclusions he arrived with. He wasn’t good in daily operations of a ranch and did best ruminating & working behind a desk. He excelled at PR and writing.
Well, Allen, et al – this is a hornet’s nest indeed.
It is a fundamental of Judeo-Christian belief that we are born sinners because Adam and Eve ate the apple, and therefore all of Adam’s offspring are sinners. We have sinned against God before we took our first breath. We are condemned to die for a crime we did not commit. We are guilty of a crime we did not commit. I understand that theology, and I think it puts this in a bit of context.
Scientology does not blame the victim for the perpetrator’s crime. However, we are responsible for our own condition. How can this be? If you look at life as a single instance in time, then someone shooting you in the head means that you are blameless, and the murder has full responsibility. But the point of the concept of Responsibility (as outlined in Advance Procedure and Axioms, Overt/Withhold theory, and a lot of other places in Scn) is that from a whole track point of view, you have put yourself in a position where some murderer can shoot your brains out.
But, here is the point that seems to be missed: This in no way absolves the criminal of his crime and it also means that victims of brutality, criminality, and abuse should be treated with compassion and understanding.
From a whole track point of view, yes, here we are humans on Planet Earth, in a position that we can get shot. We are responsible for being here.
And the reason this is important is that by knowing and understanding that, we can work on our responsibility for the position so that we are no longer in a position where we can be affected adversely by the likes of people with guns and despotic church leaders.
Now, look, I understand that if you believe that we are destined to live only one life, that working to be in a truly bullet-proof position is a pipe-dream. And, perhaps you are right. Perhaps we are truly destined to shine on this orb for only a few years, and disappear forever. And so, we have no responsibility at all for what someone else does to us. I get that theology too.
But, here’s the deal. There is nothing in Scientology that absolves the criminal of his crime – in fact, it is very clear that the only way a criminal can ever hope to rehabilitate is to take FULL responsibility for the crimes they commit. FULL responsibility.
If that criminal happens to an executive of the church, well, he is not exempt. So, I agree with you on that.
I believe I utterly failed to clearly communicate the picket sign idea as it apparently didn’t register anywhere here yet on the “richter scale” as a good idea and effective use of time.
So please allow me to further explain what I mean …
I have never seen anoners be effective communicators to church Scientologists. But how could they? They can’t speak from the pureness of heart in what you and I, as Scientologists, know.
IMO, if all the current protest attention was spent to be much more effective communicators, the existing church public could be emptied in record time to disable a suppressive, Reverse-Scientology management.
Unless existing management staff become more aware and use courage to confront DM, I never see CoS getting ethics in on itself. I’ve lost hope of that ever happening over the last 11 years.
So I see no other way to solve this dilemma other than to hit the finance and staff lines, as “cruel” as that may seem to some who may be less briefed on all the data.
Many anoners may have the right idea and intent. But they’re just going about it incorrectly. Real scientologist have an R factor to truly communicate in “scientologese” once they’ve found a com line with a church scientologist. Anoners don’t.
With the protest signs I’m suggesting, I believe church Scientologists will be able to pick up our pure intent of good, not evil. It would be tough for them to misconstrue or for CoM to black PR it. That’s where the anoners totally miss the beat.
Imagine a CoS “church” surrounded with all these signs (verbage in the previous post) in a picket demonstration. A church scientologist may even get the idea it’s a demonstration sponsored by the CoS themselves! lol.
How could church Scientologists read wickedness or evil intention into these signs? Unless there is extremely heavy paranoia on their lines, they can’t!
Instead, it would have to puzzle them to no end, wouldn’t it? Especially if this was done repeatedly. Wouldn’t they finally get curious to seek a com line to find out what’s really going on?
How could church management possibly be believed if they tell public Scientologists and Staff, “See those people holding those signs (such as “Say NO to Destruction of Tech!”), they are SP’s!” lol.
Church management would have no credibility saying this with THESE signs (above). If they did, that alone would raise a red flag to some church members, wouldn’t it?
Pickets are proven effective ways to communicate if done in ways that impinge with high ARC. If one’s goal is to take our church back and for CoS to get back on-source, IMO, this is one of the best ways to do it.
However, herein lies the problem I see with this;
How many brave, independent Scientologists are willing to “out” themselves by picketing, who are not in fear of CoS?
Many “can’t” even do it online, let alone in front of an Org. Of course, the answer is for each individual to get their confront up. Just a few high-confront and courageous people such as Marty, Mike, and a few others isn’t going to work.
But with numbers, we CAN succeed.
I don’t believe effective picketing is a waste of time.
Not everybody is a trained auditor of pure LRH, nor do many feel safe yet even exposing themselves online, never-the-less delivering Scientology auditing and courses outside the CoS with a fear of threat.
Scientology needs to be made safe again. Scientologists need a safe environment without duress. Those Scientologists who are not auditors could use, I thought, some positive action ideas to be effective in creating that. It’s something they CAN do about it.
Again, my apologies if I didn’t make myself clear before, or if I came across in a way unintended. This is just an idea for thought and consideration of acting upon.
That is why I decided to go public.
I’m originally from Chicago.
It is not part of a Chicagoan’s nature to cower.
We’re more the “fuck you and the horse you road in on” mentality.
Ron Matlock
No apology needed, The onley thing I dare to ask of you would be to follow your own conscience regarding creating awareness.
Thank you for throwing it out there though, It does help. My View Is this: Waves. Anon was a wave that caused journalists not soil their panties anymore and to get the Church in the public eye, Ex scientologists provided the next wave working the politicians and now it’s up to Independants to get the last ones out.
Non of this could have been acomplished without the Old Guard hanging in there all these years together with the freezone.
You have my sword though on Freedom of Speech , Freedom of Religion and the lot. People who write constitutions are generaly bright lights of their time.
Knowledge is Free, CD
Anounce it at your local supervisors board that you are going to open one , see what falls out of the three. Alsoo Freezone has Orgs.
Coming out in Terms of Identification is secondary to Contributions to the Cause. Not important WHO you are, but WHAT you do. And support is not limited to Notices on Bulletin Boards, but occurs in the background in the form of assisting others in moving up the bridge in the Indies/Freezone, the highest possible purpose.
A voice of support under any Nym goes just as far as any Actuality. Don’t forget, DM & Friends share your Point of “Coming out” as it increases the Target Black OP Database. Thus, as has to be to facilitate Action, some people will in plain view, others more effective elsewhere.
If you think DM will be impressed and backed off by the size of Indie Memberbase, I believe you are badly mistaken. DM will merely utilize such Data for another Angle of Attack. He cannot be impressed, backed down, made to come to his Senses or anything else to induce a more amenable Frame of Mind, so don’t ever try to appeal on that Basis. There are no Ethics Gradients for this Boy, he’s pure slime !!!
He’s gotta be taken down cold … nothing else will do.
Swift indeed 😉
Keep up the good work Sir, Your efforts do matter.
If the Indies/Freezone out-delivers CO$ at any given time, its game over.
And that is well in progress of happening.
And it will be a quiet and peaceful Death for the Church.
All the Blah-blah on Discussion Boards is for the Birds if not backed up by Scientology Service Deliveries.
Ultimately that is the most powerful Weapon.
Jesse, I agree with your spirit of how we ought to treat each other. And I agree with some of Al’s sentiments, when he is not being disingenuous. At the same time, I am aware of the history Jim and many others
including myself have with Allen “Alonzo” Stanfield.
I have been a participant on Geir’s, now Claire’s, “The Scientology Forum” for the better part of a year as has “Alanzo”. He has
the highest post count, most all of them what he calls “thought grenades”. He occassionally brings up good points. But most of his posting is composed of innuendo, insinuation, and denigration of anyone and everyone who has any positive regard for LRH or scientology. This is his agenda. A good illustration of this is his recent inappropriate “thought grenade” comment on Jeff’s blog, in response to Lunamoth’s guest post there.
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/following-the-light-into-the-darkness/#comments
On Geir’s forum, there is a 29 or 30 page thread about “LRH on Disconnection”, that Jim contributed hours of his time to. This thread is
a part of their “history”.
Whether he means to or not (I’ll let each person be his/her own judge of that), Al does a lot to alienate his readers, in ways I have
already mentioned.
After nearly a year of interacting with him, I have become convinced he is not in fact interested in any dialog, but only in pushing his
own “party line”.
Here is his latest thread on The Scientology Forum, in which he, like the famous green ghost in “Ghostbusters”, petulantly “slimes”
everyone from Marty to Amy Scobee and Jeff Hawkins, lumping all into the same category:
http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg&th=630&start=0&S=0ee160be3296f9903a9cc64724a8966a
Your doubts are valid.
Hey Theo. I truly admire your passion and your responsibility level.
I’m not trying to be harsh with LRH so much as I am trying to understand the evolution of all this mess. Its roots lay before Miscavige and Ron himself obviously liked Miscavige and concurred in the expulsio of Mayo (as far as we know – his name is on the goldenrod).
I am a traveling man, and maybe next year I will visit Greece and we can meet.
Well Sharon, who is the being here with power and self-determinism?
An unintended result of this blog (I’m sure) has been to increase my respect at least for Miscavige’s ability to assert his OWN power and self-determinism.
All these folks just said “yes”? What case gain did they get? Now you see why I have concluded that case gain itself is a very personal and SUBJECTIVE thing.
The old grade chart had “freedom from overwhelm” as the ability gained from OTIII. I think it’s fair to ask if this was true in any objective sense.
Either Heber is a VERY other determined and overwhelmed being OR he has been in agreement and active support of Miscavige for over 25 years. He can’t say “no” to divorcing his wife? Wow – that’s someone I want to be like.
So…who’s the being who has the powerful postulates here?
Hi;
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this.
Sometime in the 80s, someone, I think it was Author Services, had a great idea to get more money. What they would do, was to make ‘limited edition’ prints based on images from LRH’s works, ‘Battlefield Earth’ and ‘Mission Earth’. Thses posters were large, framed and matted, and were of a limiteded number, thus more valuable. They’d sell them for $1500.00 each, I think was the ‘issue’ price, but if you bought them before they were issued, you’d get them for $750.00. The idea was that you’d buy one or dozens for the $750.00, and when they were issued, you could sell them for more and make a killing. Debbie Mace I know bought into this and set up a ‘business’ to sell all the ones she bought. Her target was to make $1,000,000.00 the first year.
And, here was part of the hook, they’d buy them back from you at $750.00 if you needed to do so.
Big promo. Once the market, ie Scientologists, dried up, no one could get rid of them, so countless Scientologists who bought them to sell them, now had them stuck on their walls with no place to go.
I guess at first you could get the $750.00 back, but that dried up real fast. No one could complain, of course.
Same with the ‘Limited Edition ‘ books. Issue prices of $1000.00 or so, used as a source of income since their value would only increase. Total flop. Buy them back, not a chance.
The various limited edition emeters, particularly the first of them, the ‘Black Edition’ sold at higher costs, about twice as much as the not limited editions. As soon as the market for the limited edition blacks was saturated, ie no more sales of limited editions, good old HEM started making regular emeters black, since it was so popular, and destroyed the uniquenesss of the limited edition ones.
People lost lots of money, but the CofS, made huge amounts. And of course, no one reported any of it.
Wow Bobo, interesting. How very church like. 😉 Sounds more like a Multi Level Marketing craze and a get rich quick business scheme than it does a religion.
But ya know what? Those people that bought into that were as corrupt and stupid as any other “investor” who let’s greed take over his or her rationality. Many of these people are the same people who enable this crap to this day.
Also, how hypocritical of the church to put someone in ethics trouble for “making money” off the org’s CF when the church itself is involved with such gross financial irregularities.
The whole thing is just repugnant and SO NOT SPIRITUAL. Unfortunately and sadly, power and status along with the tremendous pressure to make enormous amounts of money to pay for the Bridge (and all the other coerced donations) causes the worst in character to rear its ugly head. I put myself in that category big time. As a registrar I became something I very much did not feel good about and it finally led to my departure.
The scam went much earlier than that. When the LRH ED came out about the ‘Solution to Inflation”, which stated books, tapes etc were to be increased by 10% a month, guess what? People were convinced by book sellers and registarts that they could buy numerous ets of books, PDC tapes etc,. and were guaranteed a 10% increase in value, could later sell them for a grand profit! Great idea, but of course, you couldn’t sell them to Scientologist because doing so cut into org GI. That part was not mentioned, until a couple of people, one a dear friend of mine, were declared for cutting org GI.
RICO, as far as I am concerned.
IS..
“While everybody else in the SO was working long hours seven days a week, the GO staff worked 9 to 5, Monday through Friday.”
There were only a few SO members in the GO, most GO staff were contracted staff. They were paid differently and more, although not enough to properly support themselves, hence they all had weekend jobs and some also worked at night during the week. As an SO Member, I found this a bit weird so I would go over to GLA in the AO building and help Heber. My “moonlighting” was to do PR capers for Heber. It was so weird because I “walked and talked like a duck, but was not a duck”, so to speak. I recall standing in the back of the crowd during Sea Org Day ceremonies, not really part of it all because I wasn’t staff in an org.
My point is that, rightly or wrongly, the GO was never intended to be run like the SO as far as schedules went, and other things. When the GO was unmocked in the early 80’s, all the staff were given the choice to join the SO or leave staff. That is when Craig (he had taken LSD in his younger days and thus was not SO qualled) and Sally Jensen started on their road to becoming “perfect” public and stellar examples for all to follow. I used to like and admire them, now I see under the veil. There are many other such couples who did not join the SO, but did become good little public, a lot of them live in CW. All of them were required to jump through many and expensive hoops to “earn” their way up the Bridge, even more than the usual usurious donations required to pay for “freedom”.
Eileen