Cause and Effect

Mid morning yesterday I posted mention of an Independent Church of Scientology.  Less than a half day later Lil’ Dave (Private Investigator/Black Ops Specialist)  fled Corpus Christi too quickly to be orderly.  He zoomed  a couple hundred miles north to Kemah Texas.  He went straight to my personal Certified Public Accountant’s home (yes, home at 7 p.m. on a Saturday night).  Lil’ Dave announced to the CPA that I had set up a new Church of Scientology and Lil’ Dave demanded to know whether my CPA had consulted on it.  The CPA having never heard the word Scientology before looked at Lil’ Dave like he was looking at Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. Incidentally, creating such reactive Miscavige orders winds up netting us all manner of evidence. Because of the nature my relationship with my personal CPA, the only the way the church could have made the connnection was the commission of a felony.  Thanks Dave(s) on that score.  Beside the point, but I’ll mention it for kicks, Miscavige will find the Independents’ legal and accountancy professionals when those folks decide it is time to summons Miscavige.

A few weeks ago, only a few short days after this blog broke out into a lengthy discussion of Miscavige’s re-definition of a floating needle, his missionaire Hansuili Stahli announced to someone he was trying to herd back into the pen, “Oh, three swings has been cancelled.” Lord knows when and what – of course Hansuili did not elaborate – definition out of Miscavige’s bank it has been replaced  with.  Incidentally, multiple reports on tech from the inside reflect the only changes inside are PR reports about how everything is changing – an unconvincing staff PR campaign. 

In the past several months there have been a number of similar cause and effect cycles.   We publicized the Int base staff being cut off from the outside world and families.  Suddenly, Miscavige is organizing base “tours” for irate families worried about abuses. Of course, the visitors are given no tour at all. Instead, they are taken to the studio castle, put in a room (wired for sound and video) to visit a relative who looks like he or she just walked off the set of  Night Of The Living Dead reciting a litany of pre-rehearsed PR lines.  We educate people that Freeloader bills are, per LRH, literally only for freeloaders by definition.  When enough of Miscavige’s “recovery” missions are stultified by educated ex-staff telling his representatives to take your bill and shove it, suddenly, the Creator of Lost Tech finds that LRH never intended for Freeloader bills to apply to Sea Org members.  After Marc and Clarie, followed by several others, exposed the forced abortion scandal sufficiently wide, Miscavige orders newly pregnant mothers offloaded (as opposed to coerced to obtain an abortion and then if unsuccessful shipping them out to a small, failing, broke org). 

The list goes on and on.  For the most part the “remedies” are superficial and temporary (just so long as the heat is directed personally at Miscavige). And the big, wide abuses – those which Miscavige considers integral to his survival such as felonious and fraudulent regging, barbaric Machiavellian Disconnection pratices designed to keep his crimes quiet, Black Ops on dissidents and critics – continue to escalate to more abusive and bizarre extremes.  

The great martial artist (both in individual contests and in directing larger campaigns) keeps his focus broad.   He does not stare into the eyes of the opponent.  He does not fix his eyes on the weapons or hands or feet of the opponent.  He sees the entirety of the opponent and field of battle.  Applying that to the field we find outselves in, the fact of the matter is abundantly clear:

David Miscavige and his minions are becoming increasingly EFFECT of our CAUSE.

285 responses to “Cause and Effect

  1. Impartial English Girl

    Thinking of you and Mrs. Rathbun at this troubled time. You will come through this – because you are on the side of right. God bless. xx

  2. This is my story.
    My name is Daniel Asse
    I am a prominent member of the Jewish community, Freemasons and Rotary Club in Mexico.
    I was in Scientology for 9 years
    The Church says that you “must handle” big upsets refunds cycles, chaplain cycles within Church lines.
    This is a falsehood.
    I have been trying every single day for 1 year to no result. I have called OSA INT multiple times.
    No one will return my phone calls.
    Part 1.
    I believed in Scientology to improve spirituality. I gave them a LOT of MONEY. They intensely regged me for a LOT of money.
    The Church became one big reg cycle to see how much they could get out of me.
    I paid $60,000 just for my wife’s bridge alone.
    I paid $100,000 to FSO for Ls
    While having L’s at Flag my wife was having sex with the Snr C/S of IFAD (in Mexico)
    Part 2
    When I return to Mexico, they both where waiting for me at the airport, and this guy took me to his church (now as a Chaplain) and enforced and coerced me to have an express divorce, they kidnapped me for 9 hours with no food until I sign a piece of of paper that says that my wife took all the money $127,000 us dollars from my own accounts, pre-sign checks (for emergencies), cash in my house and even money under my mothers account, for her divorce, and that I couldn’t go to court to appeal for what happened with her. I was screamed at for my “CRIMES.” I was constantly threatened with “non enturbulation order” and suppressive person declare.

    But they are the ones who emptied my bank accounts while I was on the Ls at Flag.

    This guy told me that I could lose my house too (I was married under separate assets) he took me for a whole week (in his office, with out allowing me to go out, and threat me that I was going to be declared suppressive if I do not pay him more money for the church, he was pushing me to go back to Flag, then he took me to CLO Latam to many others that knew about this evil plan to divorce me right away so the stolen money out of my accounts had a different spin.

    My wife, had, in my absence given ALL the money from our joint bank accounts to the Church for “Ideal Orgs.” None of this was her money. She came into the marriage poor and penniless. I put the money in the accounts which she gave away without my knowledge to “Ideal Orgs”

    The Church knew that I was in Clearwater for Ls and that the money they were stealing did not have my approval.

    I believe my wife gave them all these funds to avoid Ethics for sex with the Senior CS in Mexico.

    Part 3

    I was hugely upset that all my money was raped out of my possession without my knowledge and consent.

    I threatened the Church that I would go public with this, upon which they threatened my spiritual future and told me

    I was no longer elligible for Flag, to go to Los Angeles.

    This was my life immediately after completing 3 Ls at Flag.

    I went to Los Angeles where they put me to slave labor of filing in Central Files for 2 months while I paid my own hotel and meals.

    I am public, but I am filing in Central Files like a Sea Org member on the decks.

    Part 3

    With co-erced pressure they made me sign a bunch of documents that I would never lay a claim on them, with $10,000 penalty for each claim.

    They did not refund the agreed amount but less.

    I am learning that OSA have so many WITHOLDS that while they ask all day long from “CRIMES” they themselves

    want to cover up inside scandal.

    Why does everyone have to sign pages of documents to not “TELL?”

    During my 9 years of taking services at the church, I realized now, that I lost my wife, my money, my business, my joy of living, and my family, because they made me disconnect to my mother, because she is a psychologist.

    Marty, you are right, the Church does everything to make the family break-up.

    I am trying to get the other $220,000 back from the Church and I heard they told the IRS they would refund to those who demanded it.

    I should report my story to the IRS.

    I do not know if it makes a difference that I am Mexican and not an American Citizen for IRS reporting.

    If anyone has any advice for me my email address is

  3. …..Miscavige will find the Independents’ legal and accountancy professionals when those folks decide it is time to summons Miscavige.

    Hey dwarf, read that line again. Whey they’re ready for you, YOU’LL be summoned. Yes, little man, you are effect and there’s nothing you can do about it. Nothing your PI’s can do about it either. You’ll just have to wait, wonder and worry. Now that’s effect!
    ps. How many people did you berate today? How many did you hit? Beat? Scream at? Did it make you feel good? It’s getting worse, isn’t it?

  4. “Presumedly as a martial artist, I do not fight for gain or loss. am not concerned with strength or weakness, and neither advance a step nor retreat a step. The enemy does not see me. I do not see the enemy. Penetrating to a place where heaven and Earth have not yet divided, where yin and yang have not yet arrived, I quickly and necessarily gain effect.”

    Takuan Soho, “The Unfettered Mind” Chapter: “The Annuls of the Sword Tsia” AD 1637 (approx).

  5. Tony DePhillips

    I totally agree with this Marty. We heard recently that the 3 swing thing “wasn’t being pushed anymore”. Well if not, who is going to make up the damage for all the unnecessary reviews and all the crap a lot of people went through? Is little davey going to take any personal responsibility?? Hell no!!
    The people inside the dead church should thank us for easing their pain and suffering just a bit instead of mocking us.

    Ask yourself this? Are you afraid of your “church”?

    Are you afraid to use your own name?

    Are you afraid to say what you think without hiding?

    Not as a make wrong, but just look at it. To me, this is PTSness. Why should you be afraid of an SP group? The only power an SP has is the power to restimulate. Don’t let them restimulate you, you are better than that.

    The only thing to fear is fear itself.

    Don’t be a “fear-bot”. Just say fuck you!! Go ahead try it!! It is very liberating.

    All men die, but not all men truly live.. LOL!!

  6. Daniel, I am sorry about all this. Sounds as if a number of felonies were committed. Please email me and spell out what the 220,000 was given for.

  7. Marty,

    This is a much better position to be in – 3 ft back of Mestology! Quite interesting that no effects are caused from within but being exterior does the trick nicely!

  8. Thanks Tony for keeping it real.

  9. “Disintegration is something that happens to everything. When a house crumbles, a person crumbles, or an adversary crumbles, they fall apart by getting out of rhythm with the times.”

    The Book of Five Rings – Miyamoto Musashi

    dmology is defintely out of rhythm with the times …


  10. The truth is the Independent field is doing what others cannot and have not been able to do–get the tech back in. Thanks for keeping in communication, Marty. I’m sorry for all this craziness in your family’s life. This, too, shall pass.

    BTW–Hello, OSA! I’m coming out soon because I have been unable, despite my best efforts, to remedy a familial disconnection scenario, which is coming to a head in a couple of weeks. I wonder whatever happened to good roads fair weather? Don’t do that any more? You’re actually NOT going to tell family members to STOP disconnecting, STOP making trouble for the church? Even after all this?

    Don’t say I didn’t warn you. I have never backed down from a fight in my life and I’m not starting now.

    My love to all the Independents who ARE making a difference. LRH would be proud!


  11. Oh my…

    Very interesting. And they found out who your personal CPA was by…..

    Illegal wire tap?
    Theft of mail?
    Insiders at the IRS?
    Breaking and entering?
    Computer hack?

    It just boggles the mind.


  12. Daniel.

    No estás sólo.

    La secretaría de gobernación en México tiene líneas en su organigrama que te pueden atender.

    También la secretaría de salud. No son procesos rápidos pero se puede hacer justicia.

    De casualidad el Snr C/S que comentas no es Zozer Jiménez?

    Bueno. Si te puedo ayudar en algo hazmelo saber; sale?

    Robeto Sánchez Núñez

  13. Imagine – if you can – not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

    Most of us feel mildly guilty if we eat the last piece of cake in the kitchen, let alone what we would feel if we intentionally and methodically set about to hurt another person.

    What distinguishes all of these people from the rest of us is an utterly empty hole in the psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions.

    Meet Little Davey Miscavige–The Psychopath
    Karma is catching up with him faster than he can run…..

  14. Gracias Roberto.

  15. It is on your list – but the list is very short now.

  16. Hi Tony

    In response to your questions. No I am not! I do not use my assumed name here out of fear. I have d-ptsd from the current “church” and have achieved a good deal of freedom in so doing. I am not afraid of David Miscavage or his lackeys in spite of the fact that I could potentially be “hurt” ( as in, you could damage some mest or interfere with my Dynamics in some way, for a time.) I am willing to experience this and would even consider it a badge of honor should I get attacked. Sure… easy for me to say while I am still “anonymous”, but.. Stay posted!

    In regards to why I use this name here. I use it here, for a time, to allow another to have the time to make their own observations regarding the current “church”. I have no doubts that this person will be capable of observing the truth, but I want to allow them to do it on their own terms.

    Also I am looking forward to posting my name here because I want to know if any of my “old” friends are also here. I consider my friends, not my mest, my wealth.


  17. Because of the nature my relationship with my personal CPA, the only the way the church could have made the connection was the commission of a felony.


    …his missionaire Hansuili Stahli announced to someone he was trying to herd back into the pen, “Oh, three swings has been cancelled.”

    Cancelled?? It was never more than a hallucinatory alterfabrication!

    …the Creator of Lost Tech

    I’ve seen the scam on Star Trek, setting up shop as a god but being demoted because of low ethics serving narrow-minded whims. 🙂 Folks haven’t we Been there, done that enough?

  18. I look forward to it to. And you certainly will have a lot of new friends.

  19. Marty

    For all the sound and fury emanating from the “church” and DM, it becomes very obvious that he is not actually attacking YOU at all. He seems to not have the slightest notion of what you really are. He obviously does not believe in Theta, or Thetans or Spiritual Freedom or anything, and I include himself. He KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are only twisted, evil malicious enemies out to get him because that is exactly how he treats others. Undeniable “truth” in his world. He will not be able to better his situation without some serious soul searching, a luxury he cannot afford. His fixation on MEST defines his future, just as ARC defines yours. ( if I may be so bold as to evaluate)


  20. I’m now wondering if the Oct 2000 revision of LRH’s original 1978 bulletin is being re-revised to restore the original. If so, I would give a lot to see the re-revision notice on it. Priceless. I also wonder if the RTRC compiler over whose initials, “sk,” the revision was done is being named as “Who du jour” for this latest recently discovered out tech scene. Or maybe it is just all being done on PR lines via the 3 Stooges (Marion, Hansueli and Sutter).

  21. DM,
    Just so ya know.
    Three-card Monte… er, ah, Three-card Marty is a classic short con in which a shill pretends to conspire with the mark to cheat the dealer, while in fact conspiring with the dealer to cheat the mark.
    You’re getting your ass whipped by a guy with three cards and a cardboard box!
    YOU are a colossal blunder of a man.

  22. whatchu tryin’ to say?

  23. Picture a marionette jerking on a string. Dancing to a song, the words not understood. Moving without grace, panic in his eyes. His hand flicks up, his knee jerks. The song changes, the words still not understood.



    You will be remembered with far more contempt than the artificial contempt you created regarding David Mayo.

    All of your crimes will be revealed in time.

    The world will know.

    Leave now while you’re still a free man.

  25. That his MEST and money mean nothing to someone who can play the game.
    He’s up against an orchestrator and its entertaining to watch.
    He’s got all these imaginary moves that “others” are playing on him and when he follows the string, which is usually inadvertantly set by him, bang, he bumps his head again.
    Aaaaaaaaaand that he’s a dope.
    Hope that helps.

  26. martyrathbun09

    Thanks, sometimes I’m kinda slow.

  27. Sutter has really changed over the years or was he always under the influence and I never saw it? I have no track with Hansueli or Marion. Just wondering what binds them so tightly to the the man that will be the death of them. Those three have the ability to travel and see what is really going on, yet they do not see. They should look back at their goals and ideals when they started and compare to where they are now while they can still do so.
    Sometime soon I would expect that DM will become unsure of them and they will be hit more than they are now and be the newest shit on DM’s shoes.
    What an empty existence. Does keeping yourselves almost kinda well thought and mostly or at least sometimes trusted by DM make up for your lost family. What do you do on Father’s Day Mr. Sutter?

  28. Yes he has established a legacy that will be long remembered. He will be in text books for eons to come.

    He may have grabbed a male body but he is not a man and he is already in hell. Time for the disciples to leave before the kool-aid drinking party.

  29. As far as the Three-card Marty, I believe the phrase “By a minister of the Independant Church of Scientology” was the catalyst that put this move of his into play.
    You had to know he and his goons would hit that like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat.
    And now they’re in deeper.

  30. Marty it is not my intention to abuse my privilage here but I have to get a message out to DM.

    Dear Dave;
    Please send Mike Sutter, Hansuli or Marion to Chicago to handle me. I need handling bad. I promis I won’t act out this time.
    Jesse the devil Prince!

  31. There was a time when DM wanted to APPEAR to be a religion.
    Notwithstanding the labyrinth of corporate shells all designed to protect the loot ~~ like any street thug, it comes down to the Almighty Dollar.

    As DM continues to obsess on Marty, he is not even PRETENDING to be the head of a religion.

    How much of his day is running PIs, reading reports of PIs, instructing the next steps of PIs, approving new fund$$ for PI budgets, immediate phone calls re PIs updates.

    The Ideal Orgs are empty. One report after another shows deserted Ideal Orgs.

    All Senior management decimated, under “Provisional SP declare.”
    And DM’s daily battle plan main focus is Private Investigators shenanigans on those DM has chosen to pursue.

    It is almost sad.

  32. Jesse,
    That ain’t right, I asked for them to come to my place first!

    Besides, I’M Lucifer. Mmooooaaaahhhhhh.

  33. Thank you Marty, I will E-mail you privatly
    Thank you for this website

  34. Muchas Gracias Roberto
    Estas en los correcto justamente es Zozer Jumenez
    Por favor, podrias mandarme tu correo electronico, para que podamos tener una conversacion privada?
    o me gustaria ver si puedo reunirme contigo.
    Se podria?
    Veo que tienes un website y lo voy a leer todo.

  35. Theo Sismanides

    Daniel, welcome here, though not in the best shape for you, I guess.

    I am also sorry to hear all this happened/s to you.

    As Marty says we are creating various effects, so…. you can find a way through.

    And do not think that that mad house is Scientology. It’s not. We are more of a Scientology community here and we keep the basic fundamental principles like… “Do not Steal” (OSA take note).

    Welcome again!

  36. Theo Sismanides

    Hahaha, Sinar best quote of the day: 3 ft back of Mestology!! Wow, love it.

  37. I talked to an Internet old timer who is out, but never posts under anything but an assumed name. I asked if he was afraid of the Church.

    He said no, he was not the least bit afraid of the Church, but he refuses to use his private identity on the Internet. He said he intensely dislikes the “elephant like” memory of Google, prefers to fight his battles face to face, and his friends already know that he is out. He considers Facebook, MySpace, blogs, etc. to be very invasive of privacy. He’s told me that we would all be very surprised to learn how many employers, con artists, scammers and so on make excellent use of the Internet in ways that are either complete invasion of privacy or downright illegal. He also told me he maintains a private email address for friends, family, banking accounts, etc. and a public email address for use on Internet sites where an email address is required or is shown on the site. He says he often gets over a hundred spam emails a day on the public account and periodically changes his public email account to shake off all the spam and constant communication.

    So he’s not afraid of the Church. But he values his privacy and considers posting on the web better done under a pseudonym.

  38. Theo Sismanides

    Hi Songbird,

    I am not going to bed tonight. It’s daylight in the U.S. and it’s night in Greece.

    But my heart lives in the daylight tonight. I am staying connected to the daylight. I am not going to bed tonight.

    I hear a beautiful and strong Songbird.

  39. Theo Sismanides

    Marty you probably have tremendous amount of traffic on your lines. And then all this shit happening with PI’s. Just start assigning some things and tasks if you want them done. It’s OK. I am gonna ask you for a salary buddy. Hahaha. But do assign. Let us know.

    I am impressed over this new post. This Mexican guy. Came here and communicated. He has been conned. So we are winning. No need to fight, you just need to shift a bit, while keeping the Ethics hat on, which you are wearing perfectly, so shift a bit and see the admin of this whole thing.

    I don’t know how you are doing it. Tonight though you kept me up. I am not going to bed. Shit is happening man. Just give us some shit to do. Hahaha.

    Hey, I spoke to Jesse Prince on the Facebook chat. He called me an Ass Whooper, too. He said he is from Chicago and an Ass Whooper, hahaha.

    Shit is happening. Give us some shit!!!

    Oh by the way, Marty having seen all this traffic you have, I don’t have an ARC X on you reading only the first 3 paragraphs of my comment on the other post. Hey, but do read the rest, it’s cool.

  40. Tony DePhillips

    I would get a lawyer if I were you.

  41. As you know Joe,

    The HCOB came directly from the Erratum sheet issued for the Book E-meter Essentials back in ’78 and can be found in the original Tech Vols.

    The ones Der führer ordered burned after the first rewrite of the Basics back in ’91.

    Anyway even though this erratum had been around for years.

    No one other than a complete Village Idiot would interpret the erratum or the subsequent HCOB to mean that the needle had to swing back and forth three times in order for it to be a valid F/N.

    That is…..

    Until the COB (Clown On Board) read the HCOB or erratum himself.

    Lord knows how many Auditors, PCs and PreOTs have gone through hell being forced to abide by the Clown’s interpretation of what an F/N is.

    Probably the only organizational stat that is straight up and vertical is the amount of charge bypassed and cases overrun.

    Now Hansuloo’s idiotic announcement!!!!!!

    Just tooooooo much!!!!!!!!!!


  42. Tony DePhillips

    Hell Ya Songbird!! Feels good doesn’t it??

  43. Theo Sismanides

    Karen #1,

    You are spot on. How much of his “management” time is he spending on PI’s shit.

    But you helped me, get a clear picture of his fixation now.
    Yea, wow, I see his demise now…

    Now he has too many of us, here…

    Listen to this guys… it’s good, I am staying up tonight, not going to bed here in Greece, shit is happening…

    So, listen up…

    I now see his Achilless heel,

    He sees a target (ethics particle, protestor, web attacker etc. etc.) he goes after them.

    He has done that on me and you.

    He has done it in court to others outside of the church.

    But now, shit is happening.

    Why? Because we are like a warp. Turning around and around all over the globe. We get guys now to report their problems inside etc.

    We are pulling him in like a warp. He is so fixated on this “ethics handling” thing and goes after the target like a crazy animal that now that there is a BIGGER AMOUNT OF THETA (AKA “THE WARP) and he cannot NOT-IS it, kill it, stomp it, whatever,
    he goes even crazier and crazier.

    I can draw a picture of a WARP called INDEPENDENTS and two little feet there (of a little man, you know who) falling into it and just showing up for another second before they vanish into it. That’s a nice cartoon. But it’s reality too.

    Your fixation on killing “ethics particles” DM is what is killing you now. You cannot stop that fixation. You killed me once. But here I am now in the thousands.

    W-o-o-p! That’s the sound of the Warp by the way as it swallows… MEST.

  44. Daniel,
    Just wanted you to know again, you are not alone. While I was giving huge (for me) sums of money to the church, they had my husband steal my company’s funds and go to flag to buy The Ultimate Basics package (which we already had) and then after they disconnected from me, it was found out that he was having sex with a staff member at the org we were getting marriage counselling from!
    So, while I am trying to keep the company running and money coming in to pay for services, memberships, libraries and anything else they could dream up, and trying to patch up our marriage – he was having sex with a staff member at that very org!
    Here is what you need to know… you CAN flourish and prosper. I don’t know how recent this was, but I would bet that things began to get better the minute you disconnected. Hang in there. Flourish and prosper. You have friends here. The Tech works. Miscavige is nuts. And you will be fine. Got it??
    God luck. I know you will be ok.

  45. “Cause and Effect” – Ths is a good article!

    I often chuckle to myself about David Miscavige when I hear so many, many, many stories and “gracefully said gripes” by members who are onlines in the Church of Miscavige. A person I was talking to a few weeks ago was telling me how silly it is for the examiner to wait and wait and wait for the F/N, and also how the sec checks were such a bad pestering joke.

    Miscavige can try to bark orders to fix some of these things, but there is one thing that he can not fix… how he looks. I have had many parishioners suggest to me that David Miscavige looks “too good but with an odd complexion”, looks fake, appears artificial, portrays a physical unrealness. These guys are onlines and so they say it carefully. Miscavige’s speeches are a major bore to everyone whom I have spoken with. The speeches are canned and unreal.
    A lot of folks within the church imply that they do not like him. I grin and say: “Yea…I know exactly what you are saying.” There are a lot of “knowing looks” exchanged. Ha!…this Miscavige is kind of a joke even within the ranks.

  46. Tony,
    Beautiful advice for most, well said and very theta.

    But don’t be too hard on the rest of us, some us are in a Danger condition and must follow the formula if we want to get out of it. Doesn’t mean we are afraid, just that we must handle the situation and any danger in it. For some of us, that means anonymity as we have incomes, families, responsibilities and obligations to protect.

    That being said, I loved your post and your spirit!!!

  47. Tony DePhillips

    It must be awful trying to hide the low production of Idle Orgs. I have heard that the orgs won’t let some people into the Orgs if they are “questionable”.

    Well…Org, I hate to break it to you but you cannot hide what goes on inside your walls. We can get the data from dissaffected staff and or public that may go in from time to time. Or if you did manage to collapse your flows enough to prevent that then we could pay some friend to go in and do a Div 6 course and check things out for us. So your only real way of escape is to produce some products. And we all know that won’t happen unless some of the major out-points get handled. Things like the Bad PR… Ever hear of that?? The familial disconnection or any disconnection for that matter that isn’t truly the choice of the individual. Then there is the prices etc, etc. You get the idea. Any staff reading this you need to step up your confront and get something happening.

  48. Becoming Aware,
    I don’t know what he was like when you knew him, but from my recent encounter (see post above), Sutter is creepy looking (has pale, pastey, “alien” looking skin and eyes, is thin and very unhealthy looking), has HUGE comm lags as he carefully considers his next words, is very calculating, and runs his operations like a snake or some kind of predatory animal – he uses stealth setting things up behind the scenes with wisper campaigns and other dirty tactics, and then by the time he pounces and strikes, it’s too late – the damage has been done.
    As for Fathers Day, he is probably busy breaking up someone else’s 2D.
    So, now you know.

  49. Becoming Aware,

    Fucking hysterical!!!!! Absofuckinglutely hillarious!!!!

  50. Fucking Hysterical!!!! Absofuckinglutely hillarious!!!

  51. Thanks Tony.
    We Come Back.

  52. Jean-François Genest

    A) Marty, my condolences for having to deal with those crap flies, mosquitoes and curb dogs. A large effect is being caused indeed.

    I can’t help but think of Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop 1 when he shoves bananas in the exhaust pipe of the LA cops who stalks him. 🙂

    B) WOW!! David Miscavidge came OUT of hiding and went all the way to Kemah, TX → I’ve traveled extensively in the USA & Canada, and I am very good at geography, yet I had to use Google maps to locate Kemah, TX. These stories are pure entertainment.

    C) The Heat is On. Obviously, the amount of effort having to be exerted into an area is directly proportional to the counter intention. (from an LRH CMO ED) Please continue the counter intention!

    D) A word from DM’s sponsors: “we wish to thank all the IA$ donors who generously contribute to the travel expenses of the 2 Daveys, the PIs, the OSA Operations, DM’s extravagance, etc. Please continue to give generously. Thank you. Without you, there would be no DM.”

  53. Don’t you people realize that DM “ascended” to power after he cognited that power is assumed. You should all be thanking him for his detailed attention and discipline on you. He assumed the mantle of the master, therefore he is the master. Why is this so hard for you all to duplicate? You’re all a bunch of ungrateful, pesky peons. He tried to beat it into some of ya’ll but you just won’t stay down like he wants. When he re-writes the whole subject of Scientology the main book will be titled, “Get behind me and stay there”. Then both of the remaining members will carry him in his palanquin.

  54. Marty,
    You fucking ROCK!!!!
    We are all here for you and I am so proud of you for coming clean and doing the right thing. However hard it was to divulge your own crimes, you did – and THAT is what is important. Now you are clean and here helping us. That speaks volumes.
    Willing (intended) or not – you are a leader. And I want to thank you.
    Ron will be so proud of you when he finds out what has transpired!

  55. Peter,
    It is a precise balance between the truth Marty (and others) puts out, and the hillarious shit like this post that keeps me coming back!!

  56. Marty,

    When I read this part: ….”missionaire Hansuili Stahli announced to someone he was trying to herd back into the pen”…

    It reminded me of this YT video:

  57. Jean Francois,
    In response to “D” above…
    I’m sorry 😦
    I quit and I will never do it again 🙂

  58. Jean-François Genest

    Could the IA$ pay for *MY* trip to go visit David Miscavidge’s CPA, please?
    I wish to travel in Business Class with all the good food and perks, please.

  59. It gets worse and worse by the minute. One moment SO members have huge freeloader-bills, then they get forgiven if the just stay “in the fold”, buy the “basics” etc. One day the FN is defined (arbitrarily) as 3 times back and forth and then – there’s just too much upset about it, “we’ll call it back”. One day SO members are being forced to divorce and terminate pregnancies, next day “to avoid bad PR” we’re showing examples of SO couples who’ve decided to not terminate a pregnancy so show that everyone have had the chance to do so all along without consequences. It’s a f—–g farce. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can go along with this. One day a person is a very good friend of theirs, they’ve known that person for years and he/she has proven over and over again to be a true friend, a good person to the core of his/her being. The next day you’re able to throw him/her completely under the bus because some person “in authority” tells you to. Give me a f—–g break. Wake the f–k up.

    The people I personally know at Int and Jens and Anne Kirsten Uhrskov and Kurt Weiland. They are some of the best people I’ve ever had the privilege of knowing. How can they just go along with all the out-tech of the so-called “seances” and the human degradations that are so far from what they originally signed up for. There is a lot of pieces of the puzzles of my past regarding Scientology that have fallen into places and I have a satisfactory understanding of – this is one that I can place nowhere – somebody help me, please!

  60. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Fucati,
    No intention of being hard on anyone. I spoke from my own experience.
    I was afraid. And I broke through that fear and have had some huge wins because of it. I know that people will do it when they are ready and some may never do it. I know that I needed a shove to do it or at least a nudge. I never would have imagined that I would fear “Scientology”. I got into Scientology to be free and to be happy and to help. The idea that I now had to fear that group was unacceptable to me. I know that there must be others who feel that way so this message is for them. You are a thetan, and you have the right to think and speak for yourself without fear of retribution. Do not give up your power or to that degree you are letting the SP win.

  61. Tony DePhillips

    Three card monty is probably not the best positioning. But I took it in the spirit in which it was given by Cowboy who is all good in my book.

  62. Tony DePhillips


  63. Theo ~

    Thanks. I don’t actually know your story, (please tell it) but I contributed BIG TIME for the first 20 years…..Even as a young Interne at Saint Hill UK, there was no one else to audit Power and I had graduated my Class VII internship so I was single handedly the Power auditor for 18 months straight (volunteer) with no less than 3-5 Power pcs on my lines week after week, month after month. That is just the Power delivery alone. (in those days everyone did Power ~~ no Dianetic Clears)

    Pedro Doria was Senior CS and Dalene Regenass was the Commanding Officer. Richard Reiss currently Senior CS Flag had just started the BC as I was graduating.

    Anne Greig was LRH Librarian WW and Irene Thrupp was Personal Secretary WW. They were LRH personal staff and kind of “adopted” me for the 2 years I lived at Saint Hill and it was them that encouraged me to go to the Apollo. I spent huge amounts of time with Anne Greig (who I lived with for 2 years ~~ Clear #6~~ and Irene and honestly and truly got the scoop of the early years like few folk have.

    I must have audited 1500 to 2000 Power pcs. All these actions are actual stats of contribution year in and year out.

    But when I reached out and connected with Marty and Mike, DM ordered a dirty trick worthy of the days of Paulette Cooper. He had an anonymous TIP made that I was smuggling underage children to my CPA !!!!!! ! The voice that made the Anonymous tip was soft and effeminate so I probably erred in stating it was Danny Sherman.

    You got to agree with me, Sherman drones on at INT events in a soft and effeminate voice. No wonder I was mistaken *GRIN*

    Now the only way DM’s cult would have gotten my CPA’s name and city is out of my pc folders. Of course DM’s cult is infamous for using pc confessional folders against you when you leave. So what else is new ?

    So after 35 years of contribution, I get a DM version *STING* ~~ a soft effeminate voice calls in that I smuggle underage children !!!!!!!!!
    The anonymous phone call goes nowhere. As soon as these Law enforcement agents are told I am a whistleblower against the Church of Scientology (DM’s cult) Case is closed. The detectives never even visited with me.
    DM uses law enforcement as his personal army to attack his enemies and
    the word has gotten around in law enforcement communities big time.
    When the detectives visiting my CPA heard the words “Church of Scientology” they had a physical BODY reaction and ended the interview in 2 mins and logged and noted for their Seniors another BOGUS case of LYING to Law ENFORCEMENT which is a felony or misdemeanor depending on state law.

    Just another LIE from DM’s cult.

    I bet Jesse Prince has more stories along this line….. Jesse ?

  64. JF – that was little Davey – David Lubow the PI who is being talked about running around in Texas- not David Mestology. He’s probably hiding in his bunker and receiving reports & reacting.

  65. Alex Braverman

    Hear ‘ye, hear ‘ye! Let it be known and told:
    1. The Truth will Prevail.
    2. Justice will be served.


    ‘Let it further be told that the Independent Scientology Movement will carry on in the true spirit of LRH (and the ORIGINAL Tech) that has made Scientology so inspirationally awesome to millions of believers worldwide. This act of freedom & independence will thrive without YOU and your repressive narcissistic ways.

    Furthermore, you and your cadre of church donations funded private investigators are hereby put on notice that your criminally motivated shenanigans are about to come to an abrupt halt.

    Regards & Good Day , Sir.
    ~Alex Bravermann

  66. theystolemychurch

    No need for a lawyer if you follow what the church agreed when they got the tax exempt status…… If you need ~ I will post it for you… very simple refund request… they follow it or lose the exempt status…

  67. Right on!

    Remember Rajneesh? He of the multiple Rolls-Royces? When he was forced to deport (after being involved in numerous crimes), the whole thing just went “foop!” and it was gone.

    This can happen very fast. Luckily, we can pick up the pieces.

  68. Oh Hai there Mr. Crowley

  69. Hi Jean-Francois,
    It was “the other Dave” (PI) that went to Kemah, TX. Maybe not as exciting, but he broke the law. I think I smell burning toast.

  70. Did I hear that well??
    Did I hear Davey, for the first time in his life, just confess to including inapplicable data in an HCOB? Did he just admit to interpreting HCOB’s and issuing alter-ised technical data, calling it Scientology?


    Davey, now that everybody knows, better get the 3 swing ritual applied with a vengeance, or start packing, or make a deal with Marty, now that he’s still lenient, or……..whatever.

  71. The Beast can´t function on the 3. dyn, therefore he is fixated/introverted on the 6. dyn.

    The Beast is identified with MEST=Total EFFECT.

  72. DM, the new push button automaton.

  73. Joe,
    I wait, with bated breath for DM’s newest ‘HCOB’ on the FN. He sooooo squirrelled the last one from Oct 2000.

  74. “Well if not, who is going to make up the damage for all the unnecessary reviews and all the crap a lot of people went through? Is little davey going to take any personal responsibility?? Hell no!!”

    This reminds me of the now-legendary interview with Jason Beghe where he says of the “arbitaries cancelled” event:

    “About £500m later COB gives a briefing on the Freewinds and this is what they show me: ARBITARIES CANCELLED! In other words all this sec-checking is an arbitary…You think that’s supposed to make me happy? I feel like you should have a f…ing apology. I said if I was COB and I made that mistake I wouldn’t go “Arbitaries Cancelled!” I would say I made a f…ing mistake and I’d make up the damage. My f…ing mistake made me $500m and you don’t even say you’re sorry???” (At about 1 hour into the video)

  75. When I look into the future, I can clearly see that Marty will be remembered and valued as the person who had a (the) major roll in putting Scientology back on the track, as originally intended by LRH. I know Marty, you don’t like to be addressed as a hero, a leader or a star and you would like, as I can see, to live your life ordinary, in peace, helping your fellow man and live be integrity.

    When I look into the future on the other hand, I can also see David Miscavige, I mean the captain of the vulture culture company will be remembered as the worst and biggest squirrel Scientology had to face and overcome, as one that with intelligence, tactic and brutality almost whipped out the subject, MESTified it and turned it upside down. But don’t worry body, you will be not forgotten.
    When I look into the future, I can see that every new OEC/FEBC graduate will have to make as the last test on the course, a case study and analysis of your way to death, as a last warning.

    When I look into the future, I can really see a betterment for the mankind and Scientology being the servant of that improvement.

  76. Thank you Marty, Mike and any who are currently working on what Marty wrote in the previous blog posting: “It is the first of a number of precedents being put in place to establish the absurdity and futility of Miscavige attempting to use COMMERCIAL law to dictate who may or may not refer to themselves as Scientologists.”

    I am hopeful that these precedents include establishing precedents to establish the illegality of a Church using COMMERCIAL law to prevent Scientologists from PRACTICING their religion by using the technology of auditing and the applied, RELIGIOUS, and philosophical materials of Scientology in their own lives and groups.

    If these things can be established, then it is truly GAME OVER for Mr. Miscavige and his enforcers and the beginning of the free once again.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

  77. Thank you Alex, you have a fitting last name.

  78. I don’t mind it, I just didn’t get it. Thick sometimes.

  79. Bodil, very nicely and truthfully summed up. Thanks.

  80. LOL.

  81. PM from Project 36? Hey, how you doin?

  82. THeo, ok. Take charge of Greece. Set up delivery and Clear the place.

  83. martyrathbun09

    Oh, man I wish. The chances of them showing up in your neck of the woods are slim and none.

  84. I don’t get it. Even if there were articles of incorporation (or the Texas equivalent) it would be a public document. No need for cloak and dagger stuff I would have thought?

  85. Marty wrote :

    “Incidentally, multiple reports on tech from the inside reflect the only changes inside are PR reports about how everything is changing”.

    Hell, Hubbard’s red and green ink texts are decades old !

    If they were being followed things would be STABLE and ESTABISHED !

    Instead Co$ members are being sold endless fads, “golden” alterations, “improved” editions, “bright” ideas and “unprecedented” strategies.

  86. Please post the refund request that you’ve found to be successful. Anyone can (or should be able to) get a repayment but refunds are another matter. Aren’t they sticking to the 3 month time limit for refunds?

  87. Please do post it or a link?

  88. Erwin,

    No, you didnt hear that at all. What you will hear, if anything at all is VE pronouncing that he as the Founder of Lost Tech (c) has discovered through his incredible genius and hard work, that some SP misinterpreted/alter-ised/fucked up what LRH said. And that he, wonderful individual that he is, has discovered and “terminatedly handled” this and it will now speed everyone’s route to the top of the Bridge by a factor of 100x like a southbound train on a mountain slide to eternity — straiight down and vertical! It will be heralded as another remarkable accomplishment ([My] Arbitraries Removed III(c)) in the storied career of The Man Who Saved Scientology (r). Watch for it at the next International Mandatory Attendance Reg Event (r).

  89. Bodil,
    I personally witnessed Anne Kirsten compromise her technical integrity and thoroughly embrace the ‘seance’ (though they weren’t called that then as it was just beginning). In fact, I had a confrontation with her on it. She told me, verbatim, ‘the group is what’s important, not individuals’.

    First went her personal integrity.

    I watched as the madness of group think set in. I sensed and observed the hatred from David Miscavige permeate the Int Base, and with each overt of omission and commission engendered, good beings go down a spiral into reactive co-motion with it.

    How does this happen you ask?

    They deny self and their own truth. They compromise personal integrity for ARC with low-toned action. They violate their own Code of Honor.

  90. To be followed by 12 minute standing ovation to the one that knows and sees all. The true reference was actually found in a locked briefcase in an ancient underground sewer in Rome during recent excavations. All Hail the C-O-B.
    Great write up Mike. I remember when the first Arbitraries Cancelled was announced. My FSM was excited as it applied to me, and my only response was who the hell do you think was introducing the arbitraries referring to dm. Thus your parenthetical (My) was too good. Thanks for the big smile!

  91. Here’s what I love about this post, Marty:

    You are showing us how to allow DM to operate his little covert Fair Game ops, and showing that by allowing him to operate this way, he can be caught at criminal acts.

    This has always the best way to handle the pinheaded fanatics at OSA, and DM. Let them do whatever they try, even set traps for them, and then catch them at it and turn them over to the police, or expose them widely on the Internet, or in the media, and show people who they really are.

    If possible, put them in jail.

    Any intelligence that you and Mike can give us in this area from your past experiences empowers Scientologists to be more free and causative after having been connected to the Church of Scientology. It is very valuable information.

    Thank you.


    Allen Stanfield
    “Apparent Theta – Intent Vicious”

  92. Sara — There are probably 10,000 CPAs within 4 hours of Marty. How did L’il Davey know who to go try and shake down at home on a Saturday night? I doubt he threw a dart at a map of South Texas and just happened to come up wth the right one…

  93. Marty,
    DM is the effect of your cause?

    Now you’re just braggin’! 😉

    Actually, you are absolutely correct! Being on the outside looking in, I have to wait for your stories, but I have no doubt of your results. VWD!!

    Keep up the good work! And as always, anything I can do…

  94. Bodil,
    …”One moment SO members have huge freeloader-bills, then they get forgiven if the just stay “in the fold”, buy the “basics” etc.”..

    There are some who paid off these bills, intending to continue to sip the Kool Aid, still being controlled by the vampires and not realizing they were thrown under the bus. I wonder how these “loyals” feel when they see this flip flop? Will they feel perhaps some kind of a betrayal, get an automatic refund from the Vulture Culture or ask for refunds? Perhaps this is their wake up call.

  95. Great to see you here Alex, you’re among friends.

  96. Windwalker,
    You told exactly what I wanted to say.
    Thanks !
    We are on the way, we are organising things and the right time will come.

    Theo !

    Don’t worry ! We are OTs and we we will do it right this time.
    Remember: “Lightness of Organisations”. No more “Central Comitees!

    Greetings to everybody here. i just love you all !


  97. Maria,
    Had very similar considerations. However I do consider that communications, or enabling that is worth much more than considerations on privacy. There are filters to handle spam and other safeguards to maintain privacy and prevent malware and intrusion. That industry, providing protection rakes in very big bucks.

    There is no “truth revealed” if it were not communicated and one stayed in a closet. What’s the solution – to stay inside of the “privacy” shell and never poke your head out -isn’t that being effect?

  98. LOL 🙂 🙂

  99. Any money David Miscavige has to give back will cost him at least 2 times that amount because of his rage about it. Think about it and you know it’s true.

  100. IAS 26th Anniversary Ball – St Hill

  101. “Then both of the remaining members will carry him in his palanquin.”

    LOL It was Satire.

  102. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Sinar, I totally agree with you. I used my blog name to security but I also realized that being recognized and “out-there” is necessary to freely communicate at cause. It’s sort of like having your TRs IN on the world. If you are afraid of being “found-out” that you are a Scientologist then WHAT’S the point of being one? When Scientology gets it’s “repair session” done so that we all can be ourselves with out fear or condemnation, then we will truly be free!

    Gary 🙂

  103. Dan,

    Perhaps Hansueli is just blowing hot air? The next sentence is:
    ..”Incidentally, multiple reports on tech from the inside reflect the only changes inside are PR reports about how everything is changing – an unconvincing staff PR campaign. “…

    In reverting to the original, isn’t the Vulture Emperor admitting he found the wrong lost tech?

  104. More like an One-Arm-Bandit

  105. Kathy Braceland

    I love this! I really like how you continue to put the pressure on Marty. It’s definitely impinging.

    I can’t help but think there’s a storm a brewin’ within the church; staff and public I mean. The more Miscavige pulls these ridiculous black ops thingy’s, the more back peddling he does on the insanities and out tech he’s cemented in place, the more people are reaching their own personal breaking points and leaving. The walls are tumbling down — brick by brick….

  106. Gary,
    I prefer Indy personally.

    Mestology has created and is continuing to create it’s own bad PR, bad hat image due to it’s being altered to a Vulture Culture (TM pending) which I don’t care to be associated with.

    …”A man is as dead as he can communicate.
    He is as alive as he can communicate.”…
    ~ LRH Dianetics 55!

  107. I nominate Marty and Mike for this years Freedom Medal Winners. Do I hear a second to that?

  108. CD – thanks for the advance warning of the warm-up band for Halloween’s trick or treat shenanigans!

  109. I know a few who are not so happy about paying their freeloaders in full, and then having this come down. This is enough of them to completely jump ship and not even sit on the fence anymore!

  110. [My] Arbitraries Removed III” and “International Mandatory Attendance Reg Event”

    ROTFLMAO! That was hilarious, Mike.

  111. Tony DePhillips

    I will second that lookingin. But you know what they will say don’t you?
    Medals?? We don’t need no stinkin medals!!

  112. Hi windhorse, re your comment about flyers a couple of days ago.. In case you’re interested, this is one I threw together recently. It’s still a rough draft, designed specifically for printing back-to-back to make a low-cost, handy leaflet. I did it on MS Word (I’m not a computer whizz, lol!) but thought it may be useful all the same 🙂 (Google Documents)

  113. Marty, Ok I’m gonna say it if you don’t first. ‘ They don’t need no stinkin medals!’

  114. Only trouble with that, aren’t Freedom Medals sponsored by the I.A.S.? Matter of fact they are…..sooooo The Independents will have to have their own Freedom Medals set-up! I know a good goldsmith….

  115. I think we should pick a public event in 2011, gather up a whole bunch of independents and all go to the event. And just as DM is about to speak, everyone stand up, showing a t-shirt with something against DM, stare at him a good minute or two… then walk out.

    A couple hundrend people or more, walking out of an event just before he speaks… I think it would be priceless. Gotta do it live, with him there, like at the Shrine or something. What are they gonna do? Throw us out? We were just leaving! Arrest us? for what? it’s a public event!

    Priceless, I say! 🙂

  116. Tony
    There is nothing quite like in-your-face-truth to blow charge.
    Thank you for continuing to say it how it is.
    You are Personal Integrity defined.
    Deepest Admiration.

  117. Brilliant!
    Jason Beghe at his finest.

  118. You are welcome but I am sure many of you still get invites. How about Celebrating Auditorsday

  119. martyrathbun09

    Sargio, you are getting too sudden for me.

  120. Doing fine thanks, When’s your book out target date?


  121. Great minds I think.

  122. Barry Van Sickle

    I have consulted with Daniel and presently do not intend to take his legal case, however, I am concerned about this frequently repeated suggestion that the answer to refunds for services taken lies in an IRS agreement. I hear this comment all to frequently and it is not accurate.

    It is my understanding from reviewing the tax documents that CSI represented to the IRS in its application papers for tax exempt status that it would refund monies to dissatisfied customers. The suggestion is that there policy mandates this, however, in practical effect that is not the true policy. People tend to consult me after their request has been denied so I do not see a complete cross0section of claims, however, here are some of the typicalresponses to refund and repayment claims that I see in my practice:
    1. The claim is purportedly invalid because of a 3 month limitation “per policy”. ( Note that thie is pe”policy, not per law.). No refunds for services taken more than 3 months prior to refund claim.
    2. Sometimes there is a claim that the payment was a “donation”. They deny any obligation to return purported ‘donations”.
    3. The payment for services has been consumed by purchases—the book campaign.
    4. We cannot find documentation of your claim.
    5. The money has been “courtesy ‘transferred to another Org.
    6. You must fill out our forms and see the chaplain.
    7. You must sign purported releases of all claims—although your are only settling a particular claim for money on account.
    8. We need more time to investigate this.
    9. We do not understand what the IRS deal has to do with your claim.

    There are others. This is just off the top of my head. Unless the IRS takes action, no tax exempt status is going to disappeear because they do not pay your claim.


  123. Marty, I’ve been enjoying being a ‘lurker’ but I couldn’t resist that.

  124. Jean-François Genest

    Ooops! Sorry for the error.
    Thanks for clarifying.

  125. Daniel~This just breaks my heart and leaves me in tears. Nobody deserves such treatment. Nobody! I wish you the best. Please know that you are among friends here and across the planet who know the truth and will help, not harm you.

  126. Tony DePhillips

    Coming from you that means a lot!!

  127. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Mike,
    I think you nailed it. I’m not sure I could sit and listen to him say that…without standing up and saying “You are a liar!!” Maybe somone on the inside will have the guts to do so. That would be awesome!!

  128. Marty,

    I think I’m getting the significance of what your last two posts are stating:

    You and Mike have officially, and legally, Founded the Independent Church of Scientology!


    As someone moving up the Bridge in the Independent field, I officially consider myself a member. 🙂

  129. This IS the video that got me looking. Woke me up from an apathetic slumber.


  130. The problem I’ve always had with “Scientologists” is that they seem to demand to be agreed with and therefore refuse to duplicate my comm because it can be disagreeable which they can’t seem to tolerate since being a Scientologist makes them always right. Therefore they don’t consider they have to use TR 4 and handle originations if the origination doesn’t align with what they think, making them unworthy to be considered and therefore can be dismissed and the best and most justifiable way to dismiss them is to call them natter or the spreading of entheta, which justifies a disconnect and/or a declare. And so I’m conveniently exiled so they don’t have to deal with me, they hope, and the ideal way in which to do this is to disconnect and stop communicating. JB

  131. Dear Barry,
    Thanks for this legal input.
    I do believe the general outrage against DM’s cult is DECLARING a parishioner a SUPPRESSIVE PERSON, thereby cutting him off from family, his job, his friends by enforced disconnection AND AND AND

    KEEPING HIS $$$$$$$

    It is the BOTH that causes fury.

    It is reported that they have $1 billion to $1.5 billion in SO Reserves alone. Who knows what else in other Reserves such as Building Funds, Library book funds and so on.

    Yet, they prefer outrageous, horrendous bad PR such as Daniel’s and Fucati’s stories to be told on the web, rather than just give their money back. This is incomprehensible to me. It makes no sense. They could refund the $$$ and pick up the phone and call Craig Jensen or some either “high roller” to replenish the refund. But they play hardball and will risk horror stories being posted on the web, such is their desire for MONEY MONEY MONEY, to hell with the good repute of the Church.

    We always thought that it was only Sea Org Members that were kept in lock down. Daniel Asse posts that he was held for a week

    This guy told me that I could lose my house too (I was married under separate assets) he took me for a whole week (in his office, with out allowing me to go out, and threat me that I was going to be declared suppressive if I do not pay him more money for the church,

    So the SP Hole treatment has been “exported” and DM’s fine example has had a trickle down effect so that even in another continent such as LATAM, public are being screamed at for their “CRIMES” and held against their will which is KIDNAP.

    Note that he had to Deck work as well. A Public ? With full access to all confidential (Org/Sea Org Org only issues) in Central Files ? Please note the outpoint.

    The keynote of current church conduct is ABUSE. If one formerly thought that ABUSE is ONLY done to Sea Org members and Staff members, one should disabuse one’s self of that thought.
    It is now standard operating procedure to ABUSE the public as well.

  132. LEADERS.

    From the time I first started reading this blog I’ve noticed an inclination to elect Marty as “leader.” And I scratch my head and wonder why in the fuck anyone feels the need to have a leader. Not to disparage Marty, but I don’t need him to go about my life and cause the things I wish to cause. I enjoy the blog. Marty’s involvement certainly makes sipping coffee in the morning a multi-dimensional experience, but if he didn’t exist I would find a thousand other things to occupy my thoughts and time.

    I don’t need a boss. I don’t need anyone to set directions or coordinate my efforts or tell me what to do. When I see something that needs doing, I do it–if I choose. And choice is always senior. Leaders and bosses tend to get in the way of that simplicity.

    Needing a leader is an abdication of responsibility. And thetans do love to assign responsibility to others. That’s how we got a bank. Most of our problems stem from that little tendency to alter-is our own causation and responsibility. Pick any aspect of the bank and you’ll find an abdication of responsibility: ser facs, engrams, problems, overts, withholds, GPMs, BT’s, and on and on.

    The workability of auditing stems from regaining that responsibility. We look at something in session, come to know what’s there, take responsibility for it, and regain control of that aspect of our life. And when auditing fails, the failure goes back to the pc not wanting to take that responsibility.

    Take any area of auditing that failed and you’ll find a failure in responsibility. The individual has a cog and then immediately abdicates responsibility. He didn’t want to be cause. Sec checks only work to the degree that a person takes responsibility. Going OT is utterly dependent on taking responsibility for one’s own cause. And you can only become knowing cause to the degree that you are willing to be knowingly responsible.

    So, (excuse my language) why in the fuck does anyone want a leader? Why does anyone want to assign away personal cause and responsibility?

    If we are auditing out a third dynamic piece of case, that auditing will only take hold to the degree that the third dynamic takes responsibility. But who is that 3D? Who comprises that 3D?

    Individuals, that’s who. A group really can’t take responsibility for anything. Only an individual can. And the more the individuals in a group are taking responsibility and acting as sources of causation, the more a group seems to be acting responsibly. Seems.

    Leaders get a lot of credit. But a leader isn’t shit without the members of the group taking responsibility. Great coaches can raise the responsibility and skill and cooperation of players, but only if the players make the decision to be cause and take responsibility.

    Marty is enough of a target without making him a bigger one. It is a gross mis-estimation on DM’s part to believe his troubles would abate if Marty would go away. He’s mis-perceiving the situation. For years there has been an anti-Scientology movement on the internet. Marty has helped redefine part of this movement as an anti-radical Scientology movement that is (in our case) pro-Scientology itself.

    And it’s nice to have someone make observations that help us better understand the world. It’s nice to have someone accurately define some aspect of life for us. But, then it becomes foolish to depend on that person to further and continuously observe and define for us. Our success in life depends on our ability to make our own observations.

    So, the success of this movement will depend not on having leaders but in taking individual responsibility and assigning ourselves as points of view and sources of causation. Then who does DM target?

    If you’re really grateful to Marty and feel the need to help and defend, then out-create him on this front. An assault on an enemy position becomes much easier when you only have to handle one machine gun nest. You know where to concentrate your firepower. But if there are a dozen machine guns, you have to spread out your resources. And the cross fire is a bitch. You had this one machine gun hammering at you, then suddenly another appears that is throwing even more bullets your way. Shit! And then another crops up that’s outdoing the first two. Double shit! Throw in a bunch of snipers hidden out of reach and the assault becomes even more difficult.

    DM is a single target. Doesn’t matter how formidable his resources and defenses. He’s a single target. The resources he’s using are committing crimes which can be turned against him.

    There is no sense in making Marty our leader. None. And I say this out of great respect for all that he’s doing.

    A little secret: you are the source of your own observations and causation. You want something observed or caused, then you do it. Make your own observations. Be the source of your own causation.

    Trying to assign those responsibilities to Marty by declaring him your leader is a disservice to you and to him. Be selfish. Make yourself your leader.

    Enough said. I’ve got other things to do.


  133. Barry,

    Thank you – surely repayments which is funds given and for which no services delivered are totally different, have no time limit. Aren’t these a totally different species of animal in your books?

  134. Jim wrote :

    “I personally witnessed Anne Kirsten compromise her technical integrity and thoroughly embrace the ‘seance’… In fact, I had a confrontation with her on it. She told me, verbatim, ‘the group is what’s important, not individuals’. ”

    Once upon a time – alledgedly on February 7, 1965 – an ancient sage wrote a sacred scripture called “Keeping Scientology Working” and stated in it :

    “It is the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing”.

    But time went by and his words were forgotten …

  135. John Boice, I hear you.
    Thank you for putting into words what I’ve felt and how I’ve dealt.

  136. martyrathbun09

    JB, If you are unwilling to apply any Scientology communication tech, I recommend you try Dale Carnegie. I think if you applied that you’d get along fine here.

  137. Wonderful.

  138. Aawww, poah JB – they’re all ‘agin ya, yo.

    You realize this also has something to do with you and your responsibility? Perhaps what comes across as you correctly stated yourself is natter and entheta, and not origination needing to be handled.

    Like your current post is just Trolling and has nothing to do with the subject being discussed today? You might need to report to Linda or Kirsten that you failed again.

  139. Or then there’s this I had through yesterday…

    “Help create orgs that are a PERFECT image of Scientology technology.”

    Ugh. 😡

  140. Michael,

    I agree.

  141. DN,
    Never seen you post here, you sure you’re in the right place?
    It’s not Minerva’s & Snowhite’s place.

  142. Slimy bastards they are. It’s too late to play the cause-effect game because the confusion has permeated the tech to degrees very hard to straighten out. It’s deep. To say oh, that’s canceled now, does absolutely nothing to fix the HUGE technical degrade and confusion entered into the tech scene. Laughable antics.
    I’m sorta smart and it took some real searching, reading and understanding here to sort out what really happened. (And I consider I wasn’t even grossly affected since I left in 1999 and before that I resisted auditing that way.) Before I realized what’s really been going on, if somebody said, oh that 3-swing F/N thingy is canceled…I would’ve said, hum, who cares?

  143. Theo Sismanides

    LO! Thanks for the ack. I hear ya, I am with you guys! I get Marty’s intention. I will do my best. Thanks buddy.

  144. Michael — couldnt agree with you more. Thank you for stating it so eloquently.

  145. Hence the reason I only use my first name. Anybody who wants to know me further can find me easily. My yahoo and ebay accounts were hacked in the past (having nothing to do with CofM). I get hundreds of spams a day. As a business owner, to be out there advertising and putting your business name out on the web has its dark side that comes with it. We’ve been scammed by phone too. Our bank was hacked not too long ago…the list goes on.
    I’m not that important to CofM and them knowing me isn’t what worries me…it’s all the other scammers that do.

  146. Sinar~Oh that’s good!

  147. Jack~Nice. I got my copy. Thanks!

  148. Disculpa Roberto, pero no pude evitar ver en tu pagina que mensionas a Mariano Peddersolli (el CO OSA LATAM) , me gustaria comentarte que este hombre creo un caos en mexico con mi asunto, tengo infinidad de reportes hechos inclusive de publicos de ODD, este hombre empezo una guerra entre una union de credito y Cienciologia en Mexico, me gustaria mandarte varios Krs de el, para que realmente sepas quien es Mariano Peddersoli

    Con todo Respeto

    Daniel Asse

  149. Tony
    Ditto 😉

  150. Thought Provoking


    This reminded me of LRH talking about good and bad control where he asks his PC, “Which of your parents would you rather have run 8C on you?”.

    This clearly demonstrates DM’s inability to control anything.

    Even with the cause and effect changes that are occuring in the church as a result of the Independents a person is unable to go up the bridge or make gain in the church as there isn’t any good control.

  151. Thought Provoking

    Excellent post! I agree completely!

  152. Bozz-

    Now you’re talking. I don’t think I would just stare and walk out; how about standing up and screaming something like “Why have so many execs left? What about the stories you are beating up staff?” and then when you get escorted out, the next person can raise another point like “LRH said buildings aren’t important; why are you spending money on Ideal Orgs?” And “Why are the Ideal Orgs empty?” “The truth is on the internet” “Read Marty Rathbun’s blog” and so on.

    It would make for a memorable event, to say the least.

  153. Footage from DMs Lair

  154. Hi Karen,

    Your statement ” We always thought that it was only Sea Org Members that were kept in lock down. Daniel Asse posts that he was held for a week” is very true.

    Although this appears to have only happened to SO members, it was happening in Cl lV & Cl V orgs as well. I personally know of 4 people that were held … for months … one was me.

  155. Ahh, reminds me of my ex …. we were getting marriage councilling and had to see the E/O after … well, that didn’t go well at all … a big mystery to me.

    Sometime later I found that she had hopped in the sack with one guy, and then shortly after the E/O cycle, hopped in the sack with the E/O .

    hmm … I wonder why it was suggested we ‘go our separate ways’. 😛

  156. Tony DePhillips


  157. Good God Michael.

    Thanks for the summary that encapsulates so many thoughts. We don’t need no stinkin’ “leader”. Just good folks getting it on. Marty’s one of ’em. And so many others. Thanks Marty, et. al. I’ll end this comment before I go into an Ack-fest.


  158. Beautifully said.

  159. Barry Van Sickle

    Refunds for services taken are harder to get than repayments for money supposedly held ” on account”, however, there are often problems in getting money back that , arguably, is still your money that they are holding for you until you decide to spend it on services. When you ask for it back, it will not be teated like a simple return of your money.

    Typically, there are disputes about what remains on account. It is not unusual for them to claim that the money has been used for other purposes or “donated”.

    There are other typical problems that I see with money on account. Before giving your money back, they will demand general releases, which they will try to use against you if you also want a refund of IAS payments or money used for services that were not satisfactory. ( From reading this blog I am getting the idea that many are paying for LRH product but getting DM product–that might be false advertising.)

  160. Hey john, I second Marty’s suggestion. Everyone should read “How to Win Friends and Influence People.” It is sooth.

    To your point, yes, ironic, isn’t it? Here we have the TRs, bull-baiting, various communications drills, various information on logic, Service Facsimiles, tone scale – an amazing array of tools, and yet “Scientologists” these days clam up when confronted by someone.

    It is admittedly a pain in the butt to have to deal with someone telling you you are a member of a cult, are a brainwashed fool, are a lackey to a deranged megalomaniac (whether he be Ron or Dave), etc., civil conversations can be had about the subject. In my case, back in the day, I admit to being one of those you would have had trouble with, and I can tell you why I was that way: One, I was tired of it and grouped all questioners into the “Scientology is bad” group, without looking at the person in front of me, and two, there were things I admittedly did not know the answers to about the inner workings of the church – like buying up copies of DMSMH to artificially raise book sales, or whatever. There is a third, and that was when someone would spout something I absolutely knew to be false, and I would get pissed at the questioner, not the source.

    Now, I am older and wiser, and I have taken a broader view. I no longer have a sharp, strong, but uninformed passion, but a deeper passion borne out of reflection and context, and my place in the world. I understand more of what others believe and think, and I don’t assume the questioner has any other motive than asking a legitimate question.

    This is one reason I am not happy with the church – I have grown, but the (inside) group has not. One listen to Tommy Davis or Mr. David Miscavige will tell you that. We have people sitting on the richest mine in the world, and they are acting like the cavemen in “2001: A Space Odyssey” fighting over bones around the obelisk.

    (BY THE WAY – GREAT IDEA: If ANY of you are on course and have the opportunity to do a TR-0 Bullbait session, why not accuse the student of having sympathies with Marty and crew? Say: “Hey, you’re a squirrel aren’t you? Yes, I know you really want to join the Freezone!” I wonder what will happen? You could always say: “Hey, I’m just bullbaiting the guy! He should be able to handle it!”)

  161. ‘the group is what’s important, not individuals’.

    Crashing misunderstood I’ve heard that one inside the compound and seen it more than once. 😦

  162. Please organize this. My whole family will come and stand. I have not been to an event in over twenty years. I never went to the events when I was on staff except for the one where LRH’s death was announced. I loathed events but to this one I would absolutely arrive and bring friends.

  163. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Jim Logan wrote …

    “She told me, verbatim, ‘the group is what’s important, not individuals’.”

    Thanks for posting this Jim.

    Implicitly or explicitly, that is the message of any suppressive group (vulture culture), which includes CofM, of course.

    The mantra Collectivists worship is …

    “The individual can be sacrificed for the ‘good’ of the group.”

    It’s the heart of pure Collectivism.

    WHO makes the decision what’s “good” for ALL?

  164. Michael,

    Just terrific! Thank you. Mmm, Mmm, good.

  165. and, conversely, from a voice of truth we have:

    “Individuals, and not masses, form the culture of the race.” – L. Ron Hubbard

    ““Probably the most neglected friend you have is you. And yet every man, before he can be a true friend to the world, must first become a friend to himself.” – L. Ron Hubbard

    “When you can be your own best audience and when your applause is the best applause you know of, you’re in good shape.” – L. Ron Hubbard

    ““Convince a man that he is an animal, that his own dignity and self-respect are delusions, that there is no ‘beyond’ to aspire to, no higher potential self to achieve, and you have a slave. Let a man know he is himself, a spiritual being, that he is capable of the power of choice and has the right to aspire to greater wisdom and you have started him up a higher road.” – L Ron Hubbard

  166. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    IMO, it’s impossible for ANY church Scientologist to make any real case gain while they’re under suppression (PTS) in a collectivist, vulture culture (CoS).

    Permanent case gain is impossible. There will be constant roller coastering.

    The only way out of this is to GET OUT. Leave. Stop supporting a flaming, true SP.

  167. You know it might be worth it to go to LA for one of their live international events, get in the bldg as if you are a public and then stand and shout in the crowd at COB. Chances are since you are from Seattle people won’t recognize you. This would work even better if they have an event at Pac.

  168. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


  169. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    And may I add Brian Tracy and late Jim Rohn (RIP) books and audios.


    I am sorry to hear of such betrayal in the 2d ethics counselling.

    Thank you for the post re the story that 4 people who were non SO were held against will in a kidnap situation.

    Please tell this story. It is vital that full exposure is given to this kind of conduct. This is ILLEGAL conduct. DM’s cult has no authority whatsoever to hold people against their will. I was also wondering if this within the last year or 2 ? ABUSE such as captivity on non-SO was UNHEARD of in the 70s and 80s

    The severity of punishment, of ABUSE, seems to be deteriorating and getting DARKER as time marches on. Especially at INT Base on Highway 79 from which DM sets a “good” example…..

  171. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    True Leaders only inspire others, they don’t demand.

    Bosses DEMAND. Any thug can be a boss. It’s easy to be a boss. Being a boss has nothing to do with real leadership.

    David Miscavage is nothing but a low-life, thug boss who is pretending to be a leader of a “church”.

    On the other hand, Marty is a true leader in my book. Look at how he’s inspired here. Most others here are leaders too, and they’ve truly inspired me also.

    Thank you Marty. I respect you. You inspire me to do greater things.

  172. It’s just ARC. It’s everywhere and it sounds like it’s applicable on your end too.
    Talk to anybody about anything and invalidate their “R” and you will pretty much get the same reaction from “Scientologists” or anybody.

  173. Barry,
    Could you please send me your email address.
    I have a quick question.
    🙂 Spanky

  174. Karen #1

    Well… Perhaps “unheard of” but still it happened. You know my story of being held in a locked room for hours back in the early 70s.
    It was a “mission” from a Sea Org org that was fired into our area but it actually took place in a Mission setting. Nothing like days, or months, or years for sure, but “held captive against my will” .

    Also, when I was routing off staff from an Org, in the early 90s, I was required to show up on a regular staff “foundation” schedule until the routing form was completed. I was put to work in Central Files doing the Central Files project in play at that time. This went on for about 6 months or so before I finally had had enough and said I would handle the “Leaving Staff Sec Check” personally, at my own expense. I was told that I was not being given my sec check because I was a “downstat” by virtue of being on a Leaving Staff Routing Form. “Downstats” were not elegible for auditing! Since I was no longer “posted” I had no official stat at all. My “stats” on the CF project were at the very least in normal and the project was getting done, but that was not taken into consideration. Note again that a “downstat” (me?) was being used to handle files. In actual fact they did not have any auditors available to audit any staff, “upstat” or “downstat, in any case.


  175. Fucati, Humor is a great response to tyranny. I’ve been out way longer than I was in but still I can’t help being curious about all that’s gone on. Glad you got a laugh out of my post. — Peter

  176. Thank you very much Theo
    Dear Theo,
    Thank you for your welcome
    I had recieved over 30 comendations, I have another comendation
    One week I received the commendation of being a Humanitarian Donor… a major contributor to the new civilization.
    the next month they threaten me with declare me every day of the week.
    When I return from Flag I was trapped, he called for a security guard to be inside the room with me and I was not allowed to leave.
    He demanded money in high volume and I was imprisoned to pay the money.
    This was immediately on return from L12 and Solo 1 in May 2009.

  177. Barry,
    Thanks very good point that you bring up:
    …”the idea that many are paying for LRH product but getting DM product–that might be false advertising” Perhaps that could also apply to IAS Donations in that the usage might be different than what people are asked to donate for.

  178. Dear Fucati,
    Thank you for your story.
    I felt better after telling my story on Marty’s site.
    For the first time I blew some charge

  179. DFB
    Well put.


  180. Tara,
    I feel you understood me so I am thankful to you.
    The pain and suffering I have is that my wife stole my business,
    stole all my clients.
    Because she gave all the money to the Church, she was “high statistics”
    which is no ethics.
    She did not receive Ethics for the sex with the Senior CS Mexico.
    Because she gave the money to Ideal Orgs.
    But it was my money.
    Anyway I send thanks to you.

  181. Hilarious … first time seeing dm dancing at Golden Era Production!

  182. Michael,
    Viewing someone as a leader does not mean YOU NEED A LEADER. It does not mean you need to be told what to do or need a boss. Maybe you should look up that word, it may help you calm down.

    The fact is Marty was a leader within the church (maybe a shitty one as he did get lead astray and did by his own admition many overts), and he is certainly a much better one out here doing the right thing.

    Whether you like it or not he is a leader – maybe not “MY LEADER” or “YOUR LEADER” but he is certainly a leader.

    That takes nothing away from me or you. I’m not giving up any personal power and if you are not either – why the button on it?

    He is leading (guiding) others out of the vipers pit and inspiring them to seek the truth and spot the suppression. That qualifies him for the definition whether you like it or not.

    It was because of these “Leaders” having the balls to come out on TV and state the truth that nudged me to re-investigate and eventually spot where the suppression was coming from – and may I never be the same.

  183. Of course the nomination was in jest, so no stinkin medals for nobody. But can you envision the the two of them up on stage? I mean, dm could actually say that M & M were two of the most dedicated Scientologists he’s known and be right for once ( in reference to his mis-guided statement about Cruise being that dedicated).

  184. Security at the next event should be interesting after these comments (LOL).

  185. Dear Barry;
    What about a class action suit by persons refused repayment? How many people/claims would you need to make it worth while?

  186. Marty,
    Wow, Project 36. Yeah I think that was what it was labelled back then. MOPM move projects or Pac Renos. I worked with Sidney Koppelman and Jamie W(can’t remember her last name). Marc Ingber, Liz Ingber, Cynthia– were our Mission Ops. I was on the initial estimating projects and then put on the purchasing project to make sure all the materials needed for the reno’s were available.
    I was sent back to AOLA from the Purchasing Project. Thought I would be RPF’d for sure but they sent me back to my org instead.
    I don’t know if you remember but when you first joined the SO, I was assigned as your buddy for a few days, to show you around the Cedars complex. I was AOLA staff (D/ Advance Mag ed).
    I remember that you had wild, wavy hair back then.

    Been out since ‘Sept. 82. Life is good but lots of challenges along the way.

    Wish you and Mosley all the best. — Pete

  187. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    I know what you mean as far as “Scientologist” is concerned. Since DM has created such bad PR with that term it is not associated with what LRH had created and wanted. I was referring to WHEN the correct term of Scientologist (in general) is once again the admired term rather than the scorned one (or corn-holed by DM).

    Yep, Indy iz good! I haz it, I bez it, I duz it!! 🙂

  188. JB,
    Perhaps you feel this way because you have only dealt with f ‘ed-up church terminals.
    You will find with some discovery that true Scientologists do not feel the need to be agreed with.
    Even Ron said (paraphrasing) “Don’t agree with me, find out for yourself” Maybe you are feeling so upset about this because what you say is true, and you have been invalidated by church terminals or badly trained scientologists who really don’t know how to communicate. Someone who really gets the tech, can let you have you have your opinion and does not need to make you wrong.

  189. Yep. Satire it was. I was blown away by something in Amy’s book about Miscavige having this big realization that Power is assumed (might as well have said highjacked or pirated). I’m sure Hitler had a similar realization. That, to me, sums up his creativity. If he acts like a big enough thug, he gets his way. How creative is that? Fail.

  190. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    “Watch for it at the next International Mandatory Attendance Reg Event (r)”

    I’m sure DM will come up with more embellishment: “Watch for it at the next Planetary InterGalatic Mandatory Attendance Reg Event Dog and Pony Show Par Excellance!! (r)”

  191. Okay, I’d like to throw in the name of my asswhoopin Lawyer Dennis de Vlaming. He’s not cheap but if he takes the job he will get the job done. Goodle him for contact. Here is a link where he dealth with my situation in grand style

  192. Alex Braverman


    Very eloquently prosed my friend.

    Marty, how do you feel about posting his encapsulation as an actual POST ‘lest it be missed by any future visitors to your fine blog?

    Michaels’s writing actually opens the Independent Church of Scientology to to a new dimension that could be very beneficial, and far reaching. i.e. Only when the abilities, and the desire, to be responsible for one’s self, can one become knowing to the degree that they are willing to be knowingly responsible.*

    Strong stuff.

    *If any active CofM member could accomplish this, do you think they would stay?

    Alex Bravermann

  193. Tony DePhillips


  194. Question for Barry Van Sickle and other legal eagles: At what point does DM, OSA, and their PI’s cross into Conspiracy to deprive former CoS members of their Civil Rights? From the US Dept of Justice website:

    “Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241
    Conspiracy Against Rights

    This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same).

    It further makes it unlawful for two or more persons to go in disguise on the highway or on the premises of another with the intent to prevent or hinder his/her free exercise or enjoyment of any rights so secured.

    Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to ten years, or both; and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years, or for life, or may be sentenced to death.”

    There seems to me to be a clear pattern of Civil Rights violations that are interstate in nature, use phone lines and US mails, and seek to shudder Indies into silence.

    Barry: When do the Indies file with the DOJ and ask for an investigation? Forget religion. As private individuals, Miscavige et al have no right to conspire, terrorize, and plot to harm and deprive other US citizens of their Civil Rights. The Indies should turn to the US Dept of Justice. IMO, what OSA is doing to the Indies falls into the category of Hate Crimes. From the DOJ website:

    By Crime Category
    Crimes against persons

    “Of the 5,770 known hate crime offenders who committed crimes against persons in 2006:

    * 36.7 percent committed simple assault.
    * 35.0 percent intimidated their victims
    * 27.8 percent committed aggravated assault.
    * 0.2 percent murdered or raped their victims.
    * 0.3 percent committed other types of offenses, which are collected only in the National Incident-Based Reporting System.”
    It should be easy to allege that DM and OSA are engaging in Hate Crimes that are anti-religious in nature, i.e. DM and OSA attacking the Indies for exposing DM and OSA. The Indies are acting according to their religious beliefs to expose DM and OSA and are being harassed; intimidated; spied on; are having their privacy invaded; and are having their Civil Rights attacked. Here is the DOJ form to fill out and send in:


  195. RE: Daniel A. being locked up against his will.
    I’ve been reading all the horrendous stories of abuse, and being locked up against one’s will is definetly a reoccuring theme. However, it would seem that this situation should be one which could be proved and brought to the attention of law enforcement. Especially by the public, as at least they are not living in a prison, and so can go directly to the police and work with a lawyer. I know the Church has the $ to tie one up in court,and thereby squash its enemies, but so many illegal acts are being perpetrated, I don’t know why anyone who has been a victim of such couldn’t go to the police about their own sit?
    I would love to help expose and prosecute DM and those following him. However, I have not experienced abuse, so I have no evidence to offer . If a reg or anyone locked me up, once I got out , I would go to the police and report it. Have people done this only to have been turned away and rufused help?
    How about kids in the SO not getting an education? This is state law. I heard they promise , but they don’t deliver. Perhaps I’m too naive ?
    Also, if anyone knows someone who is personally locked up in the RPF
    ( what an oxymoron that has become) why can’t they file a complaint with the police saying that they haven’t seen or heard from whomever and they believe they have been kidnapped or harmed etc.? I ‘m just wondering what actions can be taken on a one by one basis. DM is the who, but there are situations that could be addressed on an individual basis which, in fighting, could help to expose other illegal acts. Anyone who has experienced abuse should not wait for someone else to blaze the legal trail. I hate to sit on my hands “watching and waiting” for the Fall Of the Roman Empire, so to speak. I would like to help others, but honestly don’t know what to do.Any lawyers out there with information or advice? Besides the Headley’s law suite, I am not aware of any thing.

  196. I hope everybody that paid one will demand it back.

  197. *smile* found the page too I see 😉

    “There is only one security, and when you’ve lost that security, you’ve lost everything you’ve got. And that is the security of confidence in yourself; to be, to create, to make any position you want to make for yourself. And when you lose that confidence, you’ve lost the only security you can have. … Self-confidence is self-determinism. One’s belief in one’s ability to determine his own course. As long as one has that, he’s got the universe in his pocket. And when he hasn’t got that, not all the pearls in China nor all the grain and corn in Iowa can give him security, because that’s the only security there is.”

    L. Ron Hubbard

  198. Oh no they aren’t sugesting Miscavige is a “”glib” aren’t they 😉 Oh yes they are!

  199. Your humble servant

    Yes, Jack, I saw that too. I was saddened to see Ms. Ann Carter shown as having been taken for $100,000 for DM’s MEST project. I truly hope it wasn’t her last 100,000 and that she didn’t have to mortgage her home to do it. Maybe it’s just me, but I think I see some pain behind her smile. And I agree that the slogan underneath is disgusting. How can giving all of one’s money to buy glitzy buildings make orgs that are the “PERFECT image of Scientology technology”? What happened to well trained students and satisfied preclears?

  200. Marty,

    Please check this post as it contains some data that should be omitted!

  201. I totally agree OUaT.

    For years I’d been buckin’ the suggestions of others that we needed to “replace” Miscavige with some other “leader” if we wanted to “reform” the Church.

    Replace him with what?

    Another self indulgent nut ball!

    Sorta like replacing a hang over with a migraine.

    Thanks but no thanks.

  202. Boys if you want Mike Sutter, Hansuli or Marion to to come over and play with you you’re going to at least pretend to be a little bit scared!
    And don’t tease the poor things. It’s mean to play with the ethics bait.

  203. I’m just a cheerlead, now stand ..

  204. M*therf&%ing awesome, TEG.

  205. Theo Sismanides

    Daniel, they are insane. This is phenomena of real insanity in the church. I do understand you and thank you for what you have been doing and what you can do as a being.

  206. I’d love to go!!!
    DM am I still banned?

  207. Indie Medal

  208. Daniel Asse – I’m sorry to have to tell you that you are the victim of an evil cult. Pursue all legal options available to you. I realized I was a member of a cult about 8 years ago when I realized there are no “OTs” who can demonstate the OT abilities described in the History of Man. Its tough to deal with. It’s like everything I’ve been told is a lie. I respect the fact that Mike and Marty haven’t sold out, however I have a sinking feeling there’s more to be told.

    I left the controversial Churh of Scientology and have become a born-again Christian because I just want to help people with no strings attached. I follow Joel Osteen who preaches a “Christless” christianiity. In other words, in my opinion, he takes the best of Christianity and separates that from the belief system,

    Anyhow, to all believers, God Bless and good night. You gotta have faith. Peace.

  209. Speaking of Faith, here’s a great clip of George Michael:

  210. Planetary Clearing

    The latest:
    Hello. As you probably already know, we are going to open the Mecca here at Flag in just a few months from now. The release of Super Power will make it possible for anyone to avail themselves of this priceless technology. We are also going to open new Advance Organizations in different continents and the release of the next OT levels, OT IX and X are on the horizon too….

    With the above expansion we are also getting every single Solo NOTs auditor back to Flag before the and of this year – so we can work out for every single one of them what’s needed to get them done with Solo NOTs. Some need to get back on the level and solo audit more, some need to do the Solo Auditor Analysis Line (debug by Qual & Ethics), some need to do a specific auditing program and so on… a different approach is needed for every individual.

    Recently we added more personnel to our Solo NOTs delivery team here at Flag, a Deputy Snr C/S for Solo, more Solo NOTs C/Ses, a lot more Solo NOTs DofPs, Tech Services terminals and so on, just to be able to service our Solo NOTs auditors better – so they can complete and go to the Ship and continue to move up the Bridge.

    There is also a line set up for Solo NOTs auditors, called the Solo Auditor Analysis Line – that is a free of charge service. It’s being done in 7-10 days average and it’s a very effective debug service only for Solo NOTs auditors who went off the level for some reason or another. The line is very specific and since months being a complete success among Solo NOTs auditors.

    While we move several thousands of OT V Completions onto Solo NOTs before the end of this year we are also getting every single Solo NOTs auditor – who is currently off the level – back to Flag and effectively serviced, so they can either get back on the level to complete, or do what the C/S determines technically correct for them to do. Cases are different, but there is only one approach – Standard Tech. You will be delivered what YOU need next to be able to continue with your Bridge – before the end of this year.

    You are invited! For more information, please contact:

    Edina Back – Solo NOTs Project Flag

    503 Cleveland, Clearwater, Florida 33755


    Direct phone: 727 644 0233 727 644 0233 or 727 467 6487 727 467 6487

    Call now!

  211. Veritas
    Beautiful. Thank you.
    Can you give me the references please? I’ve seen the quotes but don’t remember where they are from.
    Hugs friend 🙂

  212. Spot on analysis Jim – so true.
    This IS the group think and personal out-ethics… I know because I believed it for a while back when and I did it too.

  213. Oh that reminds me:
    If I’m not allowed to go to the IAS events does that mean that I’m entitled to ask for a refund for my Patron with Honors membership? Only seems fair doesn’t it?

  214. JB
    As much as you would like to blame ‘Scientologists’ (generality) for ‘refusing’ to duplicate your comm and acknowledge appropriately (‘out TR4’), you also need to take responsibility in that case for your own TR1.
    In order to be duplicated, you need to originate a communication that CAN be duplicated in the first place. If your own comm is out ARC to start with, then how in the blazes do you expect to be acknowledged with any way other than with further antagonism?

  215. Incidentally, technically your ‘origination’ is actually more of a ‘comment’ which does not technically require a ‘TR4’ (nor is any ‘Scientologist’ obliged to give you one)
    Since we’re getting all technical here…

  216. Thanks, more cause and effect. And since my last post on the subject I have even more corroborative evidence that OT IX and X are creations of David Miscavige. THE MOTHER OF ALL SQUIRRELS.

  217. Jesse, Thanks. Have you heard the tribute album to Sly by various Hip Hop Artists doing his hits with a more modern rhythym? And Steve Tyler, believe it or not, Dance To the Music? It absolutely smokes.

  218. Just been rolling something around in the ol’ noggin. I wonder if DM is going to attempt to pull a “Bulgravia” or, a “Bunker”? The ONLY other possible end game is prison…

  219. Well put, as per usual.

  220. Yes, he certainly opened up a can of whoop ass in Jesse’s case.

  221. Peter, Thanks and Hello my first senior in the SO! You do remember don’t you, that Mat Pesch and I were the damn purchasing team for the renos. I think you were there for a short while I/Cing – then Vicki (can’t remember last name – really cool woman) took over cause you got promoted. Maybe you were hfa’ing Project 36 when we started. Mat and I came in as a team off the EPF together.

  222. Man, it is scary when Jesse starts focusing like a damn laser beam.

  223. martyrathbun09

    And that blows charge for all of us. Thank you, Daniel.

  224. martyrathbun09

    You know Wayne, the feeling is mutual. I draw energy from what I hear you and other doing.

  225. I am waiting for the announcement: “six month checks” are canceled as we found it to be an arbitrary. We found some LRH advice’s buried in a keepsake box near the clipper that some SP never told us about. It gives the exact steps one needs to do after OT VIII so you can be ready for the upper levels of the bridge All OT VIII completions are to report to the ship immediately to start this line-up!

  226. How are they going to train all those CLXII’s and other staff in “a few months”? This doesnt line up with the “final 500” promo that was being sent out recently.

  227. Mike~You know the man too well!
    What is VE?

  228. Incredible what an “everyone knows” datum it is that there are so many people “off the level.” It is quite an outpoint that they don’t even consider this glutz PR any more. But if you confront the reality, it is perhaps the most stark indicator of the death of the C of M. People paid HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars to make it to OT VII. This is the pinnacle that all their hours of auditing and all their hard earned money has gone towards achieving. They get there, and more blow off than complete…. Tell that to new public and see how many of them stay — “the majority of the people that make it all the way to the top of the Grade Chart blow off before completing it.” The ultimate recommendation for why NOT to take services in the C of M.

  229. P928~I think you are quite right. How much can a man accomplish in one short lifetime? It’s clear to me that I’ve got to continue where LRH left off – Supreme Test going on here!
    And again, I must thank Marty for being there and communicating!

  230. I got the same e-mail from Edina. My major thought: “someone” is reading this blog. I also heard recently Ethics is no longer “The Poor Mans’ HGC”
    donos are expected for steps 2&3 of liability. “The Mother of all squirrels” is raising the young to mimic intents and harvest funds. doesn’t look like this pendulum is going to swing…..

  231. Sorry Tara. Vampire Emperor.

  232. Wayne,

    Some bosses demand. Some encourage. Some are competent and inspirational; some are mindless and mean-spirited. As with infinity valued logic, you would have a scale of “leadership” and “bossness.” A lot of individuals who are either thugs or demanding never aspire to be a boss or a leader.

    The argument is nuanced and complex. But my points are being made: we must all be leaders; we must all be responsible; single source leadership is neither tenable nor desirable here. If you want something done, don’t depend on Marty or anyone else: do it. Just do it.

    Yes, there is a difference between a boss and a leader. But not always. The two can overlap. A good boss encourages you to take control of your job and be responsible cause over its duties and obligations. If inspiration is the key to leadership, an old woman who sits next to you on a bus, telling you her life story which gives you the sudden insight and courage to change your life and overcome adversity would qualify as a “leader.” Inspiration does not always translate into leadership.

    Leaders are often forced to become policy makers. But, as LRH pointed out, we wouldn’t need policy if people were being responsible cause over their jobs. Purpose alone would suffice.

    So, this issue requires examination against infinity valued logic. You can come down at any point of that scale and make an argument that applies to that level. And those sitting at that level would readily agree with you. And those sitting above or below that level would probably disagree.

    I’m sure Marty has mixed feelings about all this. All that admiration is sure wonderful. But, ah, the burdens and expectations! The need for him to act on behalf of someone who is unwilling to stand up and take on the task.

    So, yes, we can analyze, philosophize and theorize about leadership. But all the significance is irrelevant without action. Get the job done. If someone inspires you, then let that inspiration lead to action, not just good feelings and appreciation.

    I will take a good smack-down with lots of pain and sweat if it leads to progress and improvement. I’d prefer that to sitting around feeling good and getting nowhere. Doing drugs makes a person feel great–for a while. Hard work isn’t always fun.

    So, let us all be inspired by one another. But let us also stand up and share the work.

    Keep our eyes on the prize.


  233. Cast my vote for John Grisham as much of what is being played on the Texas stage is pure Grisham. He does pro bono apparently, but think you might have to sign over the movie rights…. Now, who would play Marty?

  234. This e-mail doesn’t make sense on several counts – I am talking about OBVIOUS outpoints:

    1. As you probably already know, we are going to open the Mecca here at Flag in just a few months from now.

    NOBODY “knew” that it’s going to be only a “few months” as it was “only 500 more Sea Org members” just a short while ago. And “500 more” and “a few months to open the Mecca” in more or less the same breath is dropped out time and not even the same cattle of fish.

    2. With the above expansion we are also getting every single Solo NOTs auditor back to Flag before the and of this year – so we can work out for every single one of them what’s needed to get them done with Solo NOTs.

    Why “ever single Solo NOTs auditor” has to go back to Flag to work out what is needed to complete him/her on Solo NOTs is weird, to say the least. Doesn’t it mean that there is something WRONG with every single Solo NOTs auditor? Why fix something if it ain’t broken? “Just doing the level” apparently doesn’t work, does it?

    While this “announcement” reads like casual and insincere PR (all it takes is to type it) wouldn’t there have to be, out of necessity, another announcement alongside of it: there is NO more fundraising for the SP (Super Ponzi) building? It’s either an omitted announcement or contrary facts.

    It’s just so hollow and empty.

    Is any somewhat self-respecting Solo NOTs auditor going to at least file a technical alter-is (mixing rundowns) chit (what on earth is this “Solo Auditor Analysis Line” anyway?) Could well be another Davy “One C/S fits All” – with “C/$” standing for “Cashing Scheme” – and “free of charge” meaning “come, we reg you when you are here” and “you definitely pay for room and board as our hotel is not well booked”.

    I agree with it being another effect move on the part of the Cof$ – believing you just have to “say” things to make them “true”.

    Actually, it is very EFFECT-ive.

  235. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    By far, the best leadership training event ever created on this planet to date, IMO, is this one …

    Jim Rohn 2004 Weekend Leadership Event

    (Not once during the entire 3-day event did any of the speakers mention how to be a better boss.)

    I highly recommend this (recorded-live) event to anybody who wants to become a better leader.

  236. Dear Daniel, I was shocked just reading your story, i am a X-SOM wich have seen several of this kind of things inside the church, I am really sorry as I personally know you and know all the things you say are totaly true, just never expected happened to you for real. you have my phone and email to see anything what i can do to help you getting the things straight and preventing this happening again. I will be gladly helping you on any way I can find and believe me I believe I can help a lot.

  237. Fucati,

    Goodness: “Maybe you should look up that word, it may help you calm down.”

    “Whether you like it or not he is a leader…”

    “…why the button on it?”

    “That qualifies him for the definition whether you like it or not.”

    Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch! My body and soul are peppered with barbs for which I have no remedy, nor succor. Ad hominem has climbed a nine foot fence and crashed down upon me with a fury for which I am ill prepared.

    As I slowly and painfully rise from the alley and dust myself off, I am reminded once again: hmmm, what that person thought I said sure isn’t what I intended.


    Sure glad you didn’t preface your piece with “I’m not auditing you–and neither are the five guys standing behind you.”


  238. Wayne~Get your session, get keyed out, then BAM, walk out sit at the examiner and get keyed-in. PTS.
    Maybe the examiner waiting for those 3 swings doesn’t key you in. OK. Walk further down the hall and the IAS registrar summons you – BAM – keyed in, afraid, panicked, where’s the door?
    Go to an org and get a huge rundown to full EP, sort your life out to align with your own dynamics to VGIs, come home and have your seniors degrade and invalidate you because you’re not “their kind of product” – BAM – keyed in.
    PTS – Ups and Downs – Roller Coaster Ride!
    It’s an accepted way of life in CofM.

  239. RJ,

    Did you just imply that Marty is “another self indulgent nut ball?”

    God, this blog is just getting too personal for my sensitive soul.


    🙂 🙂 🙂

  240. Indy Metal-Bwahahahaha – Love It! 😉

  241. Can you explain that Marty ? I was under the impression the founder promissed those levels in 1978.

  242. martyrathbun09

    It wasn’t OT IX and X that is being peddled now. That was before NOTS and Solo NOTs were V and VII. THere is no IX and X.

  243. Yes I have and like you I’m a fan from way back!

  244. Michael,
    What craft, what lightness of touch, what joyous finesse.

    My continued admiration.

  245. Fucati,
    It’s wonderful to have you contributing to the motion on the blog and as a Scientologist. Much thanks.

    On this posting of Michael’s re leadership (and Marty in particular in this one instance), I think there may be some miscontruction of the central idea portayed: each individual must assume responsibility for cause rather than relying on that cause from another.

    That doesn’t mean one can’t accept another’s cause and any positive results of it, as you have relayed you have with Marty’s action.

    Actually, there are so many really qualified beings posting and lurking here, You being one yourself, I’d say there’s no dearth of leadership or causation from any quarter.

  246. Tom Cruise is f****d, He has DM who does not take no for an answer.

  247. Mike,
    I think what RJ meant was that when indulging, himself, in an ice cream cone, Mr. M prefers a sprinkle of almond/walnut/filbert on each of the three balls of frozen yumminess. That’s the image I got anyway.

  248. Planetary Clearing,

    these are sweet sweet words.

    Too sweet actually. And I have read such for decades now.

    Remember the Flag promo claiming “your auditor is waiting for you” ?

    And when you got there, there was only one person waiting for the session – you the preclear.

    Why don’t you promise snow in summer and the easterbunny being the ethicks officer ? Same credibility.

  249. Marty,
    Who needs satire when the unembellished truth seems to be even wilder than what I could invent? With regard to what you have said about the non-existence of OT levels above OT 8, how do you personally reconcile the following statements?

    HCOB 30 Jul 73 Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials:

    “There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s full attainment of OT VI & VII.” LRH

    HCOB 24 Jan 77 Tech Correction Round-Up:

    “Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence.” LRH

    LRH ED 301 Int, 17 Dec 78 Ron’s Journal 30, 1978—The Year of Lightning Fast New Tech:

    “OT VIII. This rundown was developed and will be available to OT VIIs who have completed their NED for OTs which is a prerequisite for OT VIII.”…”UPPER LEVELS. There are other OT levels above VIII but these will be released from time to time when people are ready for them.” LRH

    “OT VIII. Although several upper OT grades have been researched, pre-OTs were not ready for them and so they were not released.” LRH

    “The upper levels above VIII will probably be released from time to time into the future.” LRH

    LRH ED 342 Int, 9 May 82 Ron’s Journal 35, From Clear to Eternity:

    “6. The actual OT levels beginning now with New OT VIII and going on up.” LRH

    And of course, let’s not forget Pat Broeker’s statement at the LRH ‘death’ event in 1986:

    “New OT IX and X have also been finished and written up. There are several other OT levels that it is my job to compile.”…“We have a thick sheaf of LRH’s notes for New OT XI, XII, XIII and so forth and then a stack about 5 feet high comprising the materials of subsequent OT levels!” Pat Broeker

    Some questions come to mind and I’d be appreciative if you could shed fact or opinion on them:

    Was Broeker lying at that event?

    Do you think LRH would entrust one sole guy, Broeker, with materials as important as his “fully developed” OT levels beyond OT VIII?

    Was LRH lying throughout the years that these levels really were fully developed?

    Were the OT papers that you and DM acquired from Broeker, by the means you have previously described, the same papers that LRH supposedly turned over to him?

    If, after the supposedly forged issue, “The Sea Org and the Future”, DM pronounced Broeker a liar and a fake, how did he reconcile the fact that Broeker had come into the possession of LRH’s OT papers?

    Wouldn’t LRH have ensured that these OT papers got into the hands of his organization’s technical executives and were duplicated and could be applied?

    Did LRH sign off on the final Int Management org board before his death and did it have a department or section with an in-charge responsible for routing, handling and safeguarding LRH’s unreleased advanced materials?

    Do you know what the crimes were that Broeker was so afraid of?

    Why did Broeker think he could get away with his ‘fraud’, knowing the caliber of person he was dealing with in DM?

    I’ve honestly completed OT VIII (twice) and all the L’s and Solo Nots and trained extensively in Tech, Admin and Ethics, all prior to GAT. I can attest that while officially released Scientology technology, as published on any of the Grade Charts does produce higher awareness, case gain and harmonics of OT, it does not produce full OTs.

    For the attainment of full OT, I can agree with LRH’s statements that working through Band 6 (starting with OT VIII) one could eventually reach full OT, providing the materials were available and thoroughly audited long enough.

    I’ve listened to most, if not all, of LRH’s early advanced lectures, such as PDC, COHA, Exteriorization & Phenomena of Space, Anatomy of Cause, Route to Infinity and read the all the books like History of Man, 8-80, 8-8008, etc. many times. Most of these OT processes and protocols are simply not in use within the Church of Scientology’s Bridge to Total Freedom.

    As you know, the ‘OT Levels’ in the various ‘Freezones’ are a mine field riddled with brain-tumored megalomaniacs who receive precise telepathic communications from LRH, who by the way, now goes by the name of Elron Elray. Yeah, right.

    The church is so screwed up now that even if they announced the release of OT IX – XV, I would not go back in. I no longer trust them.

    Since, according to you and others, these materials do not even exist, what are your ideas for continuing the necessary auditing after OT VIII in order to achieve full OT? Is it desirable to you personally? And do you think it is actually possible to attain this?

    I know this post was long and involved, but no where near as long and involved as our quest has been towards the attainment of full OT.


  250. Yw, Tara. Any ideas/suggestions, let me know 🙂

  251. Major,
    I appreciate the candor in this post.

    Sorry to hear from you that you were somehow dissappointed in your expectations regarding the abilities of whomever it was that disappointed you.

    Good luck on your continued journey in this life and the next, whatever it holds.

  252. martyrathbun09

    It is not for me to reconcile. They don’t exist – I don’t care if God said they did. He may well have been referring to endless possible RDs he could have had in mind ala the old OT levels, and possibly taken from PDC, other OT lectures, Creation of Human Ability, etc. I’d have to see you personally to give a sensible answer to where do we go from here. From everything you have done and studied, I think the answers are all within you.

  253. That’s good news; anyone who wants less risk of attacks from Davey, just openly criticise CoM and any law enforcement that shows up on bogus accusations, will leave in 2 minutes after hearing you’re criticizing him. Thus it’ll be easier for many to take the next step on their conditions and deliver an effective blow despite personal danger.

  254. Cat Daddy,
    You’re elected for this posting I’m writing. Here’s the deal, (something you have little to no reality on as you haven’t done SA Lists like I’ve been urging these past many months) the point made is DM has NO ‘OT Levels’ in the can that are going to suddenly provide one with the ability to create from thin air a Range Rover in the driveway that ‘s gonna take them to Telluride or Monaco for some fine dining and a blonde. DM does NOT have any such ‘OT Level’ that he can provide, now or at any time.

    What does exist is a gradient scale Bridge with two parts, auditing and training, that if thoroughly traversed will help recover for one their innate abilities and the chance to live at a higher plane than has been possible for age upon age, in this particular universe.

    How far any particular individual can go with what has been communicated by L. Ron Hubbard in Dianetics and Scientology is most certainly up to them. He set no limit and never expected a being to wait for him to provide them with what THEY are capable of being, doing or having – or not, at any point or any time.

    There exists, right now, a workable route to levels of awareness and ability that prior to the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology did not exist. As much work that was put in to make that route consistently achieve the results that ARE possible, due to the nature of a being, this is not some sort of factory assembly line for laptop computers. What each being achieves and maintains, has very much to do with that being and what they themselves strive for and with persistence and careful attention, and work, attain themselves with the aid and assistance the full Bridge offers.

    There are no guarantees for any, but there is an actual possibility for every. Right now with what already exists.

    DM’s MESTology, a perversion and distraction from what LRH set forth, has absolutley nothing in the way of some magic one-shot OT Level either IX, X, or umpty ump XYZ.

  255. OTDT,
    I think your post above is probably the clearest statement of these particular questions I’ve seen to date. I personally wasn’t really wondering about them, but others do and you’ve certainly succinctly laid out what I surmise are the salient ones, for those that have them.

    Aside from a question I’d rather ask personally (my email is on one particular datum you’ve raised, I have one other: What is ‘Full OT’?

  256. Jim,
    Ah. Silly me.
    Such a healthy lifestyle. No sickening caramel and chocolate oozing down the sides. Perhaps, my lack of omega 3, found in those nuts, might explain my failures in life.
    And rotting teeth.
    But, living in the backwoods of Missouri, I’m in good company with them teeth. No sense being pretentious about them teeth. Even our dentures come ready made with jagged edges, gaps and discoloration. Around here, we usually get dentures as a graduation gift from fifth grade. I once asked a neighbor what a person would get for graduating from high school and he said, “what?” He’d never heard of such a thing. But, then again, he’s almost forty now, so he don’t hear so good any more–what with all them great grand kids making all that ruckus all the time.

    However, if nuts are such healthy foods, why do we disparage them so? Is there no friggin’ justice in this world? I’m proud to be a nut. Filled with theta and omega 3 & 6.


  257. Michael~May I call you Billy-Bob? 😉

  258. Barry Van Sickle

    I have had discussions with several firms about helping me bring such a class action. We were not able to find enough suitable class representatives to bring the case as we envisioned it. I have made demands for a return of IAS payments, money paid for services not taken , and moneys paid for unsatisfactory services. Such claims are ignored or denied. Individual lawsuits are contemplated.

  259. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Here’s a good 3-minute succinct video on what is leadership, and the qualities of leadership …

    (David Miscavage, take note. Right now, you are not this in the view of many, many, many Scientologists.)

  260. DM not gone no SA. I am very strict. Not that I do not have easy acces to the materials 😉 But that was a very enlightning and well written reply. What I like is the Personal Freedom Angle, reminds me of the Freezone wich in my book is good. No greater good for the greater numbers BS, That’s a huge trap in my opinion.

    Awarness and Ability, I am pursueing other paths.


  261. Why “ever single Solo NOTs auditor” has to go back to Flag to work out what is needed to complete him/her on Solo NOTs is weird, to say the least.

    Those overdue for their 6 month Sec Checks.

  262. My enthousiasm almost borders perversion upon reading your line of thought on a refund. A million times YES !

  263. Barry,
    Can you please provide the best email address to contact you? Or send it to me at
    Thank you.

  264. I think I know who this is — if it’s the same person, he/she has a massive LRH books/issues/lectures and Church publications collection, including most originals and revision thereafter. He/she is no longer in the Church, and currently wishes to remain anonymous for the time being.

    In my estimate, he/she has probably collected the largest originals collection in the world, outside the Church’s collection.

  265. Pingback: Top Posts —

  266. Tara,

    I would be honored.


  267. Barry
    I do apreciatte your opinion about my story.
    thanks for your concern

  268. Thank you so much Rafael, I will contact you
    because any help I could get, it is very need it
    I feel good to know that I am not alone.
    this really help me heal.
    God bless you

  269. OTDT,
    Have a look at this success from Elizabeth Hamre .. she has continued to solo for about 35 or so years.

    Email her … she may be able to give you an insight as to what you can work on now.

  270. one can “backtrack” them using Google-Fu

  271. A younger Gene Hackman.

  272. Felicitas Foster

    I loved it – your post is dripping sarcasm. =)

  273. Felicitas Foster

    Yeah, somebody hasn’t understood that you get what you put your attention on. Shit happens. =)

  274. Thank you, Quicksilver.

  275. Jim,
    I like your intelligent and pertinent question as to what full OT means, as it is definitively in the eye of the beholder. We both know that OT is a gradient thing and one is as OT as he can cause things.

    For me, early on I adopted LRH’s definition of Cleared Theta Clear for my own definition of Full OT:

    “A thetan who is completely rehabilitated and can do everything a thetan should do, such as move MEST and control others from a distance, or create his own universe; a person who is able to create his own universe or, living in the MEST universe is able to create illusions perceivable by others at will, to handle MEST universe objects without mechanical means and to have and feel no need of bodies or even the MEST universe to keep himself and his friends interested in existence.” LRH

    There’s also the various scenarios of an OT which LRH expounds upon in his early lectures which have driven me to walk this road to truth. Since I got into Scientology my objective has been to go as full OT as I could possibly reach this lifetime. I want to have the ability to completely exteriorize at will and operate in a high causative state away from and without the need for a body. Or with a body, my choice.

    I’ve exteriorized before, with full perception completely free of and away from the body and it shot me up the tone scale so unbelievably high it was simply beyond amazing.

    I’d also think it’d be fun to knock some hats off at 50 yards with just a wink of the eye!

    Thanks for responding and I’ll email you about your other question.

  276. Unplaced by chapter or page:

    A culture is only as great as its dreams, and its dreams are dreamed by artists.

    Ideas and not battles mark the forward progress of mankind. Individuals, and not masses, form the culture of the race.

    Unethical conduct is actually the conduct of destruction and fear; lies are told because one is afraid of the consequences should one tell the truth; thus, the liar is inevitably a coward, the coward is inevitably a liar.

    No civilization can progress to the stability of continuous survival without certain and sure command of knowledge such as that contained in Dianetics. For Dianetics, skillfully used, can do exactly what it claims. It can, in the realm of the individual, prevent or alleviate insanity, neurosis, compulsions and obsessions and it can bring about physical well-being, removing the basic cause of some 70% of man’s illnesses. It can, in the field of the family, bring about better accord and harmony. It can, in the field of nations or smaller groups such as those of industry, improve management to a point where these pitifully inadequate ideologies, for which men fight and die with such frightening earnestness, can be laid aside in favor of a workable technology.

    A Challenge !

  277. Marty,

    Thanks for your response. I understand what you’re saying. I personally missed the announcement from God, but I did get it from LRH. The reference (I’m only assuming it’s LRH because I of course do not have his handwritten version as proof) in which he refers to levels beyond OT VIII is the 1982 LRH ED 342 Int of 9 May, ‘From Clear to Eternity’.

    This was after his development of New OT VIII and is not referring to the old OT levels, but is quite specific in his explanation of what Band 6 of the Bridge consists of. He states that OT VIII is the first of the actual OT levels and says to get ready for a long haul at this point.

    If it is true (and I have no reason to think that you’re lying about what you’ve perceived and concluded) that no more OT levels exist in the hands of the official church then I would have to surmise one of the following to be true:

    a) That LRH ED was a forgery.

    b) It is an actual LRH ED but he was lying.

    c) It is an actual LRH ED, not lying but failed to produce the materials beyond OT VIII and instead spent his time writing science fiction novels.

    d) It is an actual LRH ED, he turned over those levels to management but for some reason provided unusable stuff.

    e) It’s an actual LRH ED, he completed those levels, turned ’em over, then Broeker hid or destroyed them for whatever reason known only to him and the stuff that was retrieved by you and Miscavige were left over, ancillary, indecipherable notes.

    f) It’s an actual LRH ED, he was telling the truth, but decided that, as an OT litmus test, it would be better to leave it to individuals to figure out what to do.

    I don’t mean to beat this subject to death but to me, it is a matter of utmost importance. Alteration or squirreling, such as happened with the definition of an FN, can always be repaired back to standard tech. But the possibility of the complete absence of crucial materials that were supposed to have existed simply boggles my mind. I knew something was very fishy when I saw Mithoff’s signature to an HCOB on OT VIII.

    I don’t expect you to solve this puzzle for me or anyone else, but I am very interested in your viewpoint and knowledge in this matter.

    Thanks for responding, Marty. I appreciate your implied offer that should I need some guidance or help I’m welcome to come a callin’.


  278. A younger Gene Hackman as Marty works for me too, Heather.

    Just Me

  279. I told you.

  280. You monkey!

  281. I don’t think it is any of a-f. Here is a fact many witnesses have confirmed, LRH was so ill he nearly died just months before that ED was issued and NOTs had only then recently been discovered. The entire line up was in question. I am still investigating, something I’ve been pursuing for years. When I am sufficiently confident I am as close to the truth as I can be, I am going to share it in tremendous detail. Until then, I know with certainty OT IX and X does not exist from LRH. I realize people can take that or leave it. But, I contend if one freely solo’s NOTs, and is not having black Dianetics C/Sing performed on him along the way, and is of a free mind that is well studied in Scientology and particularly auditing technology and OT lectures and books – there is no hand wringing over what is next necessary.

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