Cisco Kid Is A Friend of Mine

I call Daniel Montalvo the Cisco Kid.  He got that title after I found myself listening to War’s classic by that title shortly after Daniel had stood up to a considerable wall of suppression late last year.  You know, the dashing Latino-American cowboy hero with one hell of an integrity quotient – he fits the bill.

 Here’s how Daniel earned the moniker.  First, he was coerced into a trap by Scientology Inc in-house counsel Kendrick Moxon.  Moxon promised Daniel that he would be greeted at the airport by his wife and be provided with a hotel room so that he could route out if he returned  to Los Angeles from the safety of Tom Devocht’s home near Clearwater.  Instead, Daniel was picked up by an OSA agent and couriered to a room where he was interrogated by the best LA lawyers Scientology Inc could buy.  Daniel was coerced to throw me and Mike Rinder under the bus by confessing to a conspiracy of Miscavige’s imagination.  When Daniel held firm to the truth, he was escorted to a dank cell at the East LA branch of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s office.   Without Miranda Rights being read he was treated to more interrogations by an LA County Sheriff Deputy Detective, bought and directed by Scientology Inc.  Again, the demand to thow me and Mike Rinder under the bus became, well, extreme.  Luckily, Cisco had strength and the good sense to utilize his one phone call to get hold of the Tiziano and Jamie.  

We got to spend some time with Daniel in November at the Beghe ranch and at the Luglis’ place.  Thanks to you all,  he’s done a hell of a job in getting this strength up.   “Coincidentally”, the church sent a couple of gumshoes to Tiziano and Jamie’s house while we were visiting.  Scn Inc paid one Frank Salerno (one of many retired LA County Sheriffs who has claimed to be THE solver of the Hillside Strangler and other high profile cases) and his partner to put the screws to Cisco, as you can see here:

With each round of attempted intimidation and Miscavige over-the-top-overreaching the Cisco Kid  just keeps getting stronger.

Here is a very brief (necessarily so) update on Daniel for all those who helped keep him out of the Scientology Inc stir:

Ask not what Scientology Inc might do to the Cisco Kid, ask what the Cisco Kid is gonna do to Scientology Inc.

322 responses to “Cisco Kid Is A Friend of Mine

  1. The Cisco Kid is a friend of mine too! A man of integrity and honor I am proud to call a comrade in arms.

  2. Those were the days! Eh, Cisco. Eh, Pancho. See you soon amigos. Hah! What a dreamboat!

  3. Marty, Mike and Tizio,
    VWD. Life is a game, and Scientology Inc is getting really serious – and we know what LRH says about seriousness. Ron wants real Scientologists to play a game and to win at it. You guys are winning. The world can see who has the confront and who is upfront in the communication. Either the PI’s knew exactly what you asked about or the church and its lawyers are even now scared to brief the people they hire. It doesn’t really matter because it does not change the truth.

    I noticed at :27 into the video you stated your name, his face changed a bit, voice up, and “Ohh”. When you called him on that he acted like he didn’t know who you are. Other yes or no or acknowledgement questions did NOT elicit that response. The video shows the real answer.

  4. This is unbelievable and seems like prima facie evidence of corruption at the highest levels of the LA County Sheriff’s Dept.

    On what grounds did they arrest Daniel?

    I think this story deserves more context to help it garner the rage it deserves.

    By the way, has there been any mention here of the Star’s front page story on Tom Cruise, slave labor, JB’s story, etc? This issue is on the magazine racks in every supermarket in the US. It slams CofM HARD. I’m hoping the National Enquirer will pick it up next. Those tabloids have more influence on public opinion than just about any other publications.

  5. Wow. Thats all i can say: Wow. Marty contact me, I want to come out there and Eff with these A$$ holes . No seriously. I would love to stand toe to toe with these jagoffs who try and intimidate people. Im only 510 ans 200lbs but I can give as good as I get. I dont have a dog in the fight. Never even met a Co$ member that i know of. I just hate what they have they have been doing.

  6. Daniel’s a cool kid, for sure. And so are his friends!

  7. Gotta be one of my favorite postings!!
    Mountain range to mountain range F/N!

  8. It is so incredibly obvious that it’s ALL ABOUT THE MONEY to these guys. What do you figure they make an hour? They accomplished absolutely nothing but time on the clock = $$$. There when the 3 of you are there too? No coincidences in Miscavige’s church!
    What your donations buy, huh?
    Glad Daniel’s doing okay.
    Also glad you mentioned he doesn’t even have a GED…the product of slave labor.

  9. Data for Cisco Kid case and all other minor children abused in the SO system. The California Children and Family Services Act has a lot of teeth. I personally don’t like CFS as they can be very Nazi like. They may act in error and are immune to suit. If complaints are considered valid they may rescind the parental permission. In the case of Daniel, negligence could be construed by a 19 year old with no GED and not because he quit school. He was taken out of the school system. A different issue.

    Any parent who approves their under 18 year old to join the SO better make sure their children are still taken care of. The CFS is senior to the parent when they act. OSA staff – you had better start covering your backsides and get into action programs to clean up the abuses being disclosed publicly. You are dragging the name Scientology through the mud for no “greater good purpose” and you know it down inside. I am sure the blog “watchers” in OSA feel down inside that something is not right.

    I have said for years “you can’t personally handle sh.. without getting stink on your fingers.”

  10. I enjoyed this video. Liked how you gave those PIs some background data. They listened, I believe.

  11. Please, can someone name other “church” in the entire world that does this kind of thing.

    This presents a problem for people who donated money thinking it was going for anything but private dicks. Because of these types of operations there are scores of people who want their money back. These people need help. Out of this demand a new service has been formed and manned up. The name?
    Want more info? Send an email to:
    Yes, we know trolls will write in. Yawn. We’re not afraid of them. Our computers are very protected.
    So, spread the word. Help is available.

  12. What’s the status of the case/charges against Daniel?

  13. If you read Amy’s book, Scientology: Abuse at the top, you know the church gave her mom assurances when Amy joined the SO at 16 years old that ahe would continue to be schooled daily, would graduate from High school and would have a mentor who would watch over her, but instead she was sent immediately on a mission to Copenhagen , and never recieved one day of schooling while in the SO.

  14. At 5:39
    PI:”May I ask who you are, Sir?”
    MR: “Sure you can.”
    PI:”And would you be so kind as to tell me?”
    MR: “Probably not.”

    lolololol……such a master of understatement.

    Nothing like getting the drop on a couple of gum shoes.
    Oh, and would that be this Vicki Podberesky?

  15. That P.I. I noticed in him the impulse although not the bodily strength to go for the jugular. Maybe I have seen him somewhere before:

  16. Daniel is being used to set an example. Like just how SERIOUS it can get. If Daniel gave the stuff back and there was nothing to hide, what’s the big deal? This is an old lawyer tactic. Just keep applying pressure and tightening the screws until the person cracks and gives in. The real targets are Marty and Mike. Daniel, you are one tough, high integrity cookie. Thanks. love, 1 SP

  17. martyrathbun09

    Link’s no good.

  18. martyrathbun09

    Stay tuned.

  19. (my first post disappeared – here it is again – delete in case it shows up twice)

    MissCabbage / OSA products:

    * young adults without a basic schooling degree
    * parents and children separated (even if the both work in the SO)
    * declare them, should they decide to leave
    * harass them with PI’s, should they decide to speak up
    * sue them if they won’t turn on their friends

    Besides each one of these being a human rights violation (so colorfully promoted by the c of m), I don’t think I venture out too far if I said that legal action is being considered, planned and executed in different countries (not even coordinated with one another) for

    * minimum wage
    * refunds of any kind of fraudulently obtained “donations” (IAS etc.)
    * material as well as immaterial damages (be it neglected health care or because of disconnection enforced with lies and threats).

    We seem to live in a time where tyrannies end. This one will end too.

  20. Impartial English Girl

    I’m glad to hear the latest on Daniel – funnily enough, I was only thinking to myself last night “I wonder how that Daniel chap is doing?”

    Sad to see that intelligent and respectable-looking investigator demeaning himself by taking DM’s tainted dollars. Yet another footbullet for the mini-maggot – his wretched little trotters must have more holes in them than Swiss cheese by now.

    Have a good weekend. Especially Daniel.
    IEG xx

  21. Impartial English Girl

    That amused me too! Cheeky AND funny 😉 x

  22. Paul J Salerno

    No relation I assure you.

  23. Our hearts are unconditionally dedicated to Daniel and his plight. Say the word and he has our full support.

  24. Impartial English Girl

    She looks like Liza Minnelli without any make-up on, except without Ms. Minnelli’s charm and grace.

  25. The church must have a real achilles heel on this Danny Montalvo business.
    And Tiziano, nicely handled. You came across very credible, relaxed and with a lot of ARC.

  26. Kathy Braceland

    I love the Cisco Kid!

    Daniel as the Cisco Kid. I love it!!!!

  27. What your donations buy!!!

  28. How quaint. Two praetorian guards dispatched by the Emperor Zero to run proscription on a 19 year old kid. I presume to cause him to blow his brains out would be the product that would satiate the blood lust for the Emperor.

    I loved the look on Salerno’s face and that of his undertaker friend when Marty showed up with the camera.

    Immortal Liberators!

    I salute you!


  29. I’m amazed that these private dicks would even think they would get information. Underneath it all, they probably do realize this but hey, they’re in it for the money … an easy gig for them.

    Meanwhile, the church continues the never-ending harassment of honest people exposing David Miscavige’s & the church’s crimes using parishioner’s money.

    Time to give it up Davey … it just ain’t working.

    Another embarrassment. Another fail.

  30. Daniel, I look forward to hearing more about how you’re doing. Please let us know if and how we can help. Ditto to the Beghe family.

    Marty, Tiziano and Mike — looking cool, boys!

    Gumshoes — not so much.

  31. Thanks for the update on Daniel. I’m reposting the link to Free Daniel for those who have not heard the earlier story and sending another flow towards his legal fund. Unlike the church, I know exactly what my donation is buying! 🙂

  32. Because this is a fair and balanced blog, it is only right that we get a take from WAR on what is happening to the C of S these days:

  33. uuuhhhggggg, she looks like she’s been in the rpf’s rpf for a LONG time

  34. Good work! thanks to all of you

  35. martyrathbun09

    Love it. The poor man’s Curtis Mayfield.

  36. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Paul. I was concerned maybe I was a tad impolite. But I feel better now.

  37. That was great… and so true!

  38. You called that right, SA. I saw that, too.

  39. … I was thinking Howard Stern, both with and without his hair…

  40. One of the greatest overts to me has been the vampirish treatment of the youth of Scientology – the children of Scientologists in particular. Much as would like to pin it on current management, I cannot. Sorry to say, I saw this predisposition pre-David Miscavige dating back to the 1970s at least – a hippie commune mentality actually. The attitude was/is that because we are first and foremost “theta beings” and not bodies, we don’t have to go to school or get an education beyond basic reading skills and some basic study tech. While the rest of western civilization has cast the hippie commune model aside as being an unworkable vestige of drug culture, institutional Scientology has clung to it.

    What I see is the continued sucking out of the energy of young people without any investment in them. Even though we are in an increasingly global and technological society, the Scientology kids I’ve encountered are often so minimally culturally and intellectually literate; they have a very limited range of knowledge of the greater world! The ones I’ve seen have little choice but to join the SO or work in Mom’s/Dad’s businesses or maybe (if in LA) go into show business where education doesn’t matter (though show business people all seem to think they know everything – my aside).

    We have no real leaders! We have no physicists, no engineers, no (few) inventors, no designers of vehicles/systems to travel intersteller space, no mathematicians, no biochemists to keep ethics in on that community, no economists, no creative thinkers inspiring young adults, few community leaders other than within the insular world of Scientology, and so on. Scientology’s big names are almost all “celebrities.” In the greater civilization – at least to my mind – celebrities are just passing glitter – have little influence except on fashion and entertainment. Granted, artists can be the dreamers and artistic products can inspire and lift society. But how many artistic/entertainment products have there been from Scientologists that have truly elevated our civilization? We just seem to have neglected an important facet of making Scientology indispensable.

    Daniel is just one bright young person who was victimized. Now he has to make up for lost time just to get a basic life going. With the strength has has demonstrated thus far, and with guidance from his friends, I am sure he will work it all out.

    For anyone who might be in this situation or who has friends/relatives in this situation – in many states you DO NOT have to have a GED or HS degree to take classes at a Community/Jr. College. Some of these programs are phenomenal, and with a bit of study tech and taking one step at a time you can jump start a life or a career with these programs, move on to just about anything you want to do!

    (Anybody ready Isaac Asimov Foundation Trilogy? It was the priests who had the scientific technology “how-to” keys; the uneducated just operated the push-button space opera equipment and were oblivious to the science of it all. Any Marty, LOVE the Lensman reference).

    I would like to see us reach for a LOT more global responsibility. Foundational is… the good auditing and training that will open visionary minds and spark postulates of what could be!!! So perhaps this Independent community, spear-headed by those who’ve kept the vision, can just re-start the whole forward thrust … a civilization without war, without insanity, …

    Just my thoughts… Leonore

  41. Johnny Goodboy

    Marty and Mike,

    You really got my attention now. Cisco Kid was coerced making statements against you two? What kind of DM conspiracy theories are you talking about?

  42. This is idiocy compounded on the idiocy of having Danny arrested in the first place.

    Go Cisco!

  43. SA,
    I would be very careful about bringing those types in. Right now he’s safe, fed and I’m sure forward motion has been created to enable him to prepare himself for his future.
    My first inclination is to let that sleeping dog lay.
    Cisco’s welfare trumps all other matters right now.

    God bless those who opened their hearts, homes and wallets to him!

    BTW Thanks for the hot tip about the plumbing profession. The two remaining laws associated with being a plumber are:
    2. Don’t put your fingers in your mouth.
    3. Payday is on Friday.
    You may all now consider yourselves Journeymen Plumbers!

  44. Standard practice in the SO is to give kids some “schooling” on some weekends (emphasis is on “some”) and then skip the whole thing altogether. Various efforts are made from time to time (does this mean “from flub to flub” ? ) to put schooling back in and it drops out about as fast as it was “put in” (usually some amateurish stat push cycle).

  45. Glad to hear the kid’s doing well.

    What a couple of Guido’s, eh? Straight out of the Gamboa clan. The C of $ and their attorneys send these two goons to put the screws on a 19 year-old KID. This really is out of the DM auto-screenplay of “How a Little Guy Like Me Can be a Big Mafia Don,”

    No, seriously. Take a look at this video. Instead of sending a lawyer, or even a paralegal to talk to the kid or even set up a meeting, or even doing something standard like a deposition, they send the 2 thugs to wait in ambush for the kid hoping to get a piece of him and then do their two-on-one and crush him.

    I’m an insurance adjuster who also does PI-like stuff and I can tell you we would never get an assignment like this. Never. Real attorneys would wait for the depo. But DM isn’t going to depo is he? That would open the door and light up his little kingdom. Even if they got to talk to the kid, nothing the Kid would say to them would be admissible. No,they weren’t there to ask questions, this was straight intimidation, that’s all – Mafia-style. DM-style. DM’s MO is starting to show patterns that are recognizable.

    No Marty. They didn’t know you and Mike were there. If they knew you were there, they wouldn’t have shown up like that. Besides, Frank “The Tank” almost threw up on Guido #2 when you told him who you were. He just recovered really well, and in less than a second.

    What a show. You can’t write movies this good.

    ML Tom

  46. The Cisco Kid…love it, great handle Daniel. I would say Daniel’s back is covered!

  47. one of those who see

    Hi Danny! You have my upmost respect for keeping your integrity in under, I’m sure quite scary circumstances. You’ve obviously got the best watchin’ your back. Hope you are enjoying life on the outside. It’s got to be a blast at Jason’s.

  48. Dan,
    While on the line of WAR music, perhaps those still sipping Kool Aid at the Int base and the hole are singing this song:

  49. Absolutely brilliant post, Lenore!

    Loved what you said about hippie culture, western civ, celebrities, education and everything else.

    And yes, there is at least one participant here who read, and loved, the Foundation Trilogy (along with just about everything else Asimov wrote, including his 2 volumes on the Works of Shakespeare).

  50. Sinar,
    Loved that album of theirs. Lee Oskar, their harmonica player, lived with my parents for a year after arriving in the U.S. from Denmark. He and my mother are still great friends. His harp playing was on a par with Paul Butterfield.

  51. Considering that photo #1 was just before 10 years in the RPF and photo#2 was right after, I’d say they got their product.

  52. Does it strike you that P.I.’s are sent because they can bypass the right of the accused to the presence of a lawyer when being interrogated?

    Did you also notice the one guy was asking for hearsay evidence? “What did he tell you about this….”

    And do you trust the enemy’s P.I.’s to get the data straight if you did answer any of their questions? Or would they then say you told them something incriminating? Probably best not to speak to them at all.

  53. Freedom Fighter


  54. Freedom Fighter

    Without Miranda Rights being read he was treated to more interrogations by an LA County Sheriff Deputy Detective, bought and directed by Scientology Inc.

    I’m no lawyer (nor do I play one on TV), but I’d say that this, alone, is enough to get any case against Daniel thrown out of court.

  55. martyrathbun09

    Unbelievable. I was about to ask whether you’d ever heard them live.

  56. The same one you’re involved in JG.

    Though Marty and I disagree on the actual *source* of the conspiracy.

    Personally I think it goes beyond Miscavige since he is too much of a moron who can only “communicate” in monosyllables and profanities.

    However it doesn’t matter what Marty or I think.

    The fact that Moxon and his team of high powered shysters broke the law when they confined Danny against his will and began “interrogating” him in an effort to roll over on Marty.

    You remember Michael Miesner don’t you or have you forgotten?

    Let me refresh your memory.

    The so called GO “Conspirators” were charged with kidnapping him also when he turned state’s evidence on them based solely on his testimony.

    This is in fact a fait accompli in Danny’s case.

    If I were Moxon and Assoc. I’d worry about more than merely being disbarred.

    Funny how former DOJ employee Yingling took a power on this one.

    Coincidences never cease.

    Never mind the fact that the LA County Sheriff’s Department may as in more likely be up for Civil Rights violations.

    In other words the dominoes are beginning to fall and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near the Church of Scientology when they do.

    Especially heaven forbid working in OSA!

    So my friendly suggestion is that you make copious copies of what is on your hard drive and get the fuck out of there JG while you still have a chance at avoiding incrimination.

    Because I figure sooner or later probably sooner than later the FBI is going to be forced to act whether they want to or not on all this incriminating evidence.

    Think about that JG…..

    And have a nice day.

  57. Rex Fowler just found guilty of first degree murder. The church managed legally to keep itself from being an accesory to this murder of Thomas Ciancio. But the public knows the financial pressure on Fowler to cough up money for the church was part of this tragedy. Nasty business. The church has blood on its hands.

  58. CP,
    Agreed – that is why I mentioned Nazi like. This isn’t in reference to Daniel but to other minor children if they attempt to make them disconnect from Independent parents. Just revoke your permission and get CFS backup. I don’t like it but it does impinge.

    I was told 2 things needed to know to be a plumber
    1. sh.. runs downhill
    2. payday’s on Friday

    I think all other rules are common sense.

    I always enjoy your cowboy poetry.

  59. Johnny Goodboy

    Maybe you mistake me for somebody else, RJ. I have nothing to do with any of that. I’m wondering what kind of conspiracies are on DM’s mind.

    Is he thinking that Mike or Marty put Daniel up to stealing that computer stuff? Or has he other ideas? I simply trying to figure out what’s going on in the mind of that man.

  60. Leonore and Publius,
    Another participant – have the Foundation Trilogy and all of the Lensman series. I have read both twice. The comparisons of these great writers continues to astound me.

    And to have untrained Scientologists – there are some of us with advanced degrees and I believe in the future there will be more. I always view that we were to add to our value with Scientology training, not think that was all there was. It was a tool to better understand the dynamics. But, the details of the 5th and 6th dynamics and that understanding is vital in so many areas to make this mud ball a better place to live.

  61. He’s psychotic and anti-social and a world-class sociopath.

  62. Ugly as hell………….

  63. I completely agree with the idea of anyone who lacked formal education taking advantage of the Community college programs. Not only do they have excellent programs, they have financial aid to help anyone who needs it. My daughter who had very limited education applied, was blown out that she passed the entrance tests with her limited schooling, is on the home stretch to getting her AA degree and is talking about continuing through to her BA.

    It is never too late to get an education! It also is very helpful in establishing new comm lines to a lot of different people.

  64. JG: “I’m wondering what kind of conspiracies are on DM’s mind.”


    It’s a mad scramble in there. Everyone from his personal servants, all staff of Gold and Int to Big Pharma, the psychs and the Trilateral Commission are intent on suppressing and destroying him. The emails he gets are overt attempts to kill him. The media is seeking to crucify him. Trees and bushes are after him. The lady in his BMW Navigation system is engaged in a plot with the microwave that is used to warm his milk at nite. Bedlam would be a bed of roses compared to the hurricane inside his head. And yes, I do mean most of this literally. He lives in a state of fear — his staff are all regularly accused by him of trying to kill him (if they overcook a dish or put his slippers in the wrong place next to his bed so he stumbles when he gets out of bed), people that work for him are trying to kill him by “overworking him” (while they sleep 3 hours a nite and Dear Leader always has time for his tanning bed and biceps). Of course the media are all engaged in a massive conspiracy (you can see that in the responses that are given to the media by Mad Tommy). I am sure that if his car Navigation lady gave him a wrong direction he would tell everyone it was “trying to kill him” and accuse the car of being a nazi (I am not joking).

    He is obsessed, 24/7, that people are trying to do him in. He has to be constantly alert as there is danger everywhere. It’s rather a grim existence. Of course, he thinks everyone else is doing it to him (it’s funny — when it comes to Dear Leader that oft-overused phrase “what did you do to pull it in” never gets used, nor does “you are responsible for your own condition” nor “you are wildly PTS”).

  65. Daniel,
    If my children grow up to have the honor, integrity and strength you display I will consider my job as their mother well done.
    Jason, Tiz and Jamie… ♥

  66. mrinder, WELL SAID!!!!!

  67. What you describe is what I’ve perceived and duplicated about the man.

  68. No kidding. Is there any official word on Fowler from the CofM? They took his $. What say they now about the guy?

  69. Scott Campbell

    How serious are they? Dead serious. Just ask all those who have met an untimely death at the hands of the C of S.

  70. Just a tad. But not more than that.

  71. Scott Campbell

    A Curtis Mayfield classic.

  72. Perhaps that well known retained civil rights attorney there in LA took to the case. Can’t remember his name …..

    Sure would get a lot of attention given everything else going on with the lilliputian psychotic, wouldn’t it.

  73. Scott Campbell


    I’ll put my knuckles up against your advanced degree any day.

    Just kidding bro. It was however, the first thing that came to mind – so lacking a censor, I had to say it.


  74. Scott Campbell

    Thanks for the update Marty.

    Let us know if you guys or Daniel need any help.


  75. Well said. As a former Scientology kid, I can attest to the lack of support. My parents were actually incredibly supportive in some ways – at least my dad sprung for my early courses and even a couple of intensives when I was a young teen.

    On the other hand, this idea that we are all beings with eons of experience, and therefore body age does not matter, was very permeative back in the day. I was on staff at flag at 16 years old. I was on my own doing my levels at ASHO at 15 years old. Any idea that an org or, especially, SO staff can be “in loco parentis” is completely unsound – even though the reg said they would make sure I was in school while on course, etc. Thank God I was not a rowdy youth, because I had no constraints keeping me from getting into serious trouble. Training and being a Class IV at 16 saved my ass. Had I just joined staff, I would have gotten in a lot, lot worse trouble than I did.

    I don’t regret this. But it could have been done MUCH better. Back in the ’70s, we were all still young and inexperienced, and really, part of the counter-culture whether we liked it or not. There is no excuse now. This system bore Mr. David Miscavige, and had I been more power hungry, I could have been right there with him. I worked with Yeager when he was a kid – a child. I worked with all the brats at Flag – all my age, all children given some pretty heavy responsibilities and tools. It really is like giving liquor and car keys to teenagers. It was fun in a “look at me, ma! I am tightrope walking across the Niagra!” kind of way.

    I would NEVER let any child go on staff in any position. Period. It was fun for me, but my time would have been better spent getting educated in Scientology and at school.

    The ironic part is that because of Scientology, because of study tech and the tech in general, and having had such responsibility at such a young age, I have been able to become rather successful career-wise despite the lack of “credentials.” So, it is a double-edged sword. Scientology gave me tools to learn. But I still had to learn.

    The combo of Scientology tech and a real education (broad-based, math, science, liberal arts, music, culture, etc.) is a killer combination. Scientology is a catalyst for education and a platform from which to attach new ideas and experiences, not a be-all, end-all. We owe it to our kids to let them get the fruits of this.

    The sense of “We need to clear the planet NOW” is a contributor for this kid neglect. All time is compressed. We need to do it NOW – no time to get educated. No time to do anything but work for the CAUSE.

    Another factor is the incredible self-centeredness some Scientologists have where they would dump everything else for their “bridge” including their kids. I saw that first-hand, too.

    We have time. We have the responsibility. Regardless of how many lifetimes a kid has lived through, he is still a kid, and a teenager is still a teenager.

  76. Mike,

    A great post … it had me laughing, but it parallels DM’s thinking so exactly.

    I can only imagine the pressure his staff are under – talk about walking on eggshells!

  77. …”— his staff are all regularly accused by him of trying to kill him (if they overcook a dish)”…

    How about guilty of having cooking smells while cooking and serving breakfast in his Hacienda apartment & dining area for a couple of years and then and having to move to another apartment to cook with a Steward then having to bring food from there so the smells of breakfast don’t intrude?

  78. Great story Dan. Then again WAR has the classic disconnection song very applicable to the ” PR wise – It doesn’t exist” but we really do it anyway:

  79. Hi , my name is Kim and I hope it is OK for me to post something here . I have never posted on a blog before and I kind of feel like I am intruding but here it goes . I have been reading this blog ever since i saw Mr. Rathburn and a gaggle of ex-wives on Anderson Cooper’s show. I was riveted. As a TOTAL outsider to Scientology ( and all religions i might add – i am a recovering catholic with nuns in the family so i know whereof i speak) ~ i watched the glazed over eyes of these people who were there defending the church of scientology and some guy named David Misgavige – against what Mr. Rathburn and others were saying and i have to tell you all seriousness and total honesty ~ they looked like their souls had been sucked out of them . How do you defend a guy like this David Misgavige person? Why are these people so devoted to this MAN as opposed to their belief systems ? Sinead O’Brien ripped up a photo of the pope on SNL a few years back …she is still a catholic. But that panel of people ..made up of ex wives and that Tom Davis guy – it was like watching a care wreck in real , live time and hoping someone would stop it . Made for great TV but there was a sad side too . My dad was in Vietnam and does not really talk about it a whole lot . He talks about people having a certain kind of far away look in their eyes when they forget who they were and where they came from , and who loved them when they left . Then , to see and hear the people who had left this weird money grubbing tax scam run by some guy with a HUGE Napoleonic complex ..what they had gone through , what their families were put through – i was mortified. Power corrupts ..absolute power corrupts absolutely . I found XenuTV- this blog , watched the entire Jason Beghe interview (WTF??!) -listened to the Larry Anderson recording of him wanting his money back , read all of the St. Petersburg Times stuff .. all over the course of about a year . I have felt like I have been watching something unfold . I have felt like a creeper at times but I can’t seem to be anything other than ( sounds strange ..) but PROUD of all of you . Because no joke – to the real outside world – they all look like a bunch of freaking whack jobs. It takes tremendous strength to leave a church that will rip you from your children,your spouses, your families. ( my aunts were sent to France for 6 years but could write and call and visit twice a year for crying out loud ..and those nuns are tough ) I wish you all the best and it seems like you have a good , supportive community . I may not agree with certain belief systems but i have a lot of respect for people who take a stand . The catholics know what happens when a church is eaten away from the inside out ~ and we are all just as sick as our secrets . Congrats to all of you and i hope more will follow .

  80. crap – i meant to write Sinead O’Connor – all us Irish are in the same family anyways ;_

  81. Scott Campbell


    You’re fucking hilarious! “Trees and bushes are after him.”

    I’ll take care of this…

    Now let’s see. Where’s my 2″ x 4″? Ahh, here it is.


  82. Thank you, Mike. I have long suspected David Miscavige’s mental condition is as you have described it here; it is nice to have it confirmed by someone WHO WAS THERE and WHO KNOWS. And, someone who probably has been, more than anyone else, the recipient of his physical violence. This physical violence, in my opinion, is a direct manifestation of his insanity. I say recipient, because the last thing that you are, Mike, is a VICTIM. I am so happy that you survived, with your sanity and willingness to help, intact.

    Gradually, we, as a group, are coming to a condition of CAUSE over him, and your willingness to tell us the ISNESS of the situation (how it really is) is an important part of the process. You have my eternal gratitude for all that you are doing to help us all move on up a little higher!

    ML, Catherine von Ach

    P.S. Sinar, it is stories of the paranoia described above, that led me to the conclusion that DM would never go diving with anyone else who had a knife!

    P.P.S. There is an old saying: “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to kill you.” It is this kind of paranoia that got me into Scientology — it was my “ruin”. It took a lot of auditing, and real life physical universe experience to find out someone really did want to kill me! For an insurance policy, no less, to which they were the sole beneficiary, if I met my untimely demise. I credit the awareness I got from Scientology as saving my life, AND MY SANITY. It is this experience that makes me feel that I understand at least a part of what is going on with DM.

  83. This is yet another example of Miscavige using parishioner donations to create another “enemy” for Scientology.

    Daniel only wanted the freedom to choose the direction of his own life. It’s a pretty simple concept, but no.

    Once again Miscavige has created a big problem for radical Scientology.
    He’ll tell the staff and public that it’s all an SP (suppressive person) attack on Scientology due to “all the expansion”. He’ll say it’s the same people he blamed for the Lisa McPherson flap – German government, U.S. government, mafia, police, drug companies and psychiatry (no joke).
    He’ll demand more IAS donations from the staff and public to fight the attack. Miscavige will pretend that he is having to save the day. That Scientology would be doomed if not for HIM. He’ll stop by the “HOLE”
    where past Scientology international executives have been labeled as suppressive and kept imprisioned and sneer at them and brag about how HE is having to save the day – once again.

    It is standard procedure for Miscavige…..

  84. Sorry JG,

    Personally I don’t know what “conspiracy theories” are raging in little Davy’s mind but they probably have to do with long dead enemies of some long dead yesterday.

    As you might have noted I’m not in with the “lone Miscavige theory” crowd.

    The guys got cover and he’s got some kind of back up.

    For all we know he may be following the “advice” of his long time consigliare Monique Yingling who as I noted earlier was a former employee of the DOJ or even on of those oh so *Special* Directors of CST which would include his ol’ buddy Meade or one of the Lenske bros both who have interesting connections themselves.

    It could even be a suggestion by Spooky Bob Gray the Agency’s version of Warbler Madman Madison given as a PM issue.

    Who knows?

    It’s possible that who many think of as being a master of manipulation is being manipulated himself.

    In other words the so called “player” being played.

    Personally I think the ability to conceive of complex conspiracies is beyond Miscavige’s simplistic intellectual capability.

    In other words I think the guy is too stupid even to be paranoid.

    I personally think the guy’s shoe size is bigger than his IQ.

    And how he got to where he’s gotten is with “A Little Help from His *Friends*”.

    Sorry I can’t view the guy as a looming monolith of malice made bigger than his diminutive stature.

    As far as I’m concerned he’s just a little twerp who’s been assigned too much power.

    That said.

    I think this whole thing with Danny was a mad scheme hatched by a bunch cock roaches who like to work in those dark places and crevices few of us ever enter.

    They were going to nail this poor kid for “stealing” a fifty dollar hard drive.

    A hard drive that he probably thought he could use as evidence against his oppressors.

    Far from committing any crime Marty suggested that he give it back.

    Yet those who work in the slimy darkness thought they could use Marty’s efforts at being a Good Samaritan against him and turn the kid against him.

    Thus it was an effort to take down the Independence movement as well that failed.

    I mean here we have an Organization that is currently involved in human trafficking, possible kidnapping, maybe even circumventing immigration laws to bring in possible terrorists as “religious workers”, various violations of their 501ciii status perpetrated by their mentally retarded “leader” so that he can maintain his star power and may be involved in activities of espionage on an international scale who is stooping beyond being low to nailing some kid for *borrowing* a hard drive due to the fact that he offered to return it.

    Talk about the criminal mind at work!

    Anyway as far as I see it with the inclusion of the Sheriff’s Department it was just another gambit that failed in one objective and ostensibly miserably failed in another, boomeranged, back fired or given those responsible another foot bullet.

    I write “ostensibly” because what it succeeds in doing once again is place the generality known as *Scientology* in a bad light with the public.

    And giving the media yet another opportunity to bring up that guy Xenu yet again for the millionth fucking time!

    You know and prattle on about how Ron wrote Science Fiction before he developed Scientology and go over his the time he worked for the ONI once again etc ad nauseam.

    Though in the long run it may have the salutary effect of driving another stake in that lumbering monstrosity falsely calling itself the “Church of Scientology” and actually exorcizing the dark demons that have possessed it .

    Including the short stupid one.

  85. Clearwater Lawyer

    You got it right. Basically any evidence that is obtained in violation of an individual’s rights will likely be thrown out – referred to as “fruit of the poison tree” . Often this means the prosecutor has to dismiss the entire case because that’s the only evidence that they have.

    Lynne, that’s a good point. I found it very disturbing that these two investigators are coming out to look for this young man. Did they have an appointment? Did they really expect to be able to speak with him alone? Initially they advised that they just wanted to “talk” to him. Then they clarify that they are the ones asking questions and not answering them. That doesn’t sound like a “talk”, it sounds more like they were hoping to be able to interrogate him.
    It is impossible to believe that they thought that Daniel would speak to them, alone! I’m sure Daniel is aware of the overall problem of talking alone with two people who work for the attorneys that represent an adversary. Not that these particular investigators would be dishonest (yes, I am being serious) but the possibility exists that he would be in a situation later where it would be his word against the word of two people as to what was said or suggested in that “alone” conversation.
    I’m glad he has the support of everyone here. That is important!!

  86. I remember doing one of those cartoon style ‘double-takes’ upon entering the Detroit Org for the first time in 1971. I was still in College and fresh off of reading the Foundation Trilogy (just 3 at that time) and very impressionable about any sci-fi and space-opera affiliations this new adventure/experience that Scientology seemed to be.
    I hadn’t actually scrutinized the giant, full wall “organization board” in the reception area immediately.
    I remember turning around and taking in this elaborate diagram of divisions and duties…when my eye scrolled down toward the bottom and I saw a big bold “FOUNDATION”…
    I thought (to myself) OMFG!!! I had found it! haha

  87. Thanks Kim,

    You are welcome to post here any time as far as I’m concerned and ask questions if you want.

    I’ll be happy to answer them.

    Loved your description of the inch wifes.

    Yeah they do look like they got too close to some kinda soul sucking entity.

    Or like those pod people in the Invasion of the Body Snatchers 🙂

  88. Reminds me of this definition:

    “MOTIVATORISH CASE: a preclear who only gets off motivators in a session. The motivator case is well aware that each motivator answer is not truly real, but reactively he is incapable of looking at the cause side of the picture and considers any effort on the part of anyone to attempt to get him to do so as an effort on the part of that person to punish him or to make him guilty. Such a person has many overts of blaming others and uses any motivator as a justification of his overts against others.”
    HCOB 12 July 1962

  89. This just in from Tommy Two Tone:

    “There is no such person as Rex Fowler.

    “Any information you may have heard that Rex Fowler was a Scientologist is the same old tired lie told by the same old apostates who are proven discredited sources.

    “Scientology, under the brilliant and benign guidance of our leader and savior Mr. David Miscavige is expanding faster than at any time in history. We have magnificent new buildings in cities all around the world. Hundreds of thousands of square feet of finest italian marble hallways are proof of the incredible growth we have experienced as a result following the guiding light mapping the stairway to heaven set forth by our Dearest Leader.

    “Anyone who would make such a vicious claim as this must be being paid by interests antithetical to the aims of Scientology — recently restated by the Illustrious One as “A world without war, insanity or individuals with any money left they havent given to me.

    “And finally, you can tell that Marty Rathbun that I am mad. Really mad. Truly and insanely mad.”

  90. Kim, the Irish know when someone is full of shit and your topped off. All that explaining on what brought you here and you messed up on the names. Sucks. But you’ll be back with a new name and a new story soon.

  91. Thanks Catherine.

    Sometimes paranoia is a good thing.

    Especially if they *really* are out to get you 🙂

  92. Dear RJ,
    You said “Funny how former DOJ employee Yingling took a power on this one.”
    What did you mean by this? She previously worked for the DOJ? I thought she used to work for the IRS. What do you mean “took a power on this one”? Please elaborate in your wonderful enlightening way.
    Thanks, LM

  93. Yeah I had a friend who thought being in the Sea Org was going to be like being on the starship Enterprise.

    Needless to say she was somewhat disappointed.

  94. The same thing they said about Reed Slatkin.

    Reed Slatkin who?

  95. Scott Campbell

    Honorable Grasshopper.

    Fantastic post. You encapsulated nicely what Sapere Aude said above and illustrated your point with your own personal story.

    The benefits of being a Scientologist and being “well-read” or “well-educated are indeed incalculable.

    I would say however, that one needs to be pretty savvy in order to avoid the pitfalls of indoctrination inherent in any “institutional” education system.

    Who needs more doctors, lawyers and politicians anyway?


  96. Yes, that paranoia and the subsequent auditing I received, and “constant alertness and the willingness to fight back”, saved my life, in a real physical sense. I appreciate the acknowledgement. I haven’t mentioned this aspect of my history in decades; in fact, had completely forgotten about it, as my motivation for doing whatever it took to receive services. I was definitely in “need of change” and “demand for improvent”! The DM story put it back in my mind. Maybe that is why I have the high ARC for the “spook” speak, technology and stories, of which you seem to be a virtual goldmine of information. Can’t wait to talk to you in Texas face-to-face!

  97. Scott Campbell

    Sooooo Cynical!

  98. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    The lady in my GPS keeps telling me to drive to my local TorchDepot for more supplies! Sheeesshh…..

  99. Thanks GH,

    Miscavige pretty much proves how terrible an enfant terrible can get with out proper adult guidance.

    I agree that training is the key.

    Many of these kids were untrained morons and remained untrained morons pretty much through “adulthood” like….you know.

    Me I got in this lifetime when I was 18 so I wasn’t really a kid and wasn’t really an adult.

    Had dropped out of school because I found it oppressively pedantic and much of the “information” they were ostensibly “teaching” me was pretty much useless.

    After the BSM and the evaluating importances drill I was able to learn on my own faster then I would have learned in School or College on some fixed all is *important* curriculum.

    So I don’t have a degree.


    Personally I think “Higher Education” is overrated.

  100. “The lady in his BMW Navigation system is engaged in a plot with the microwave that is used to warm his milk at nite.”

    I thought I was the only one who thought his kitchen appliances were conspiring against him. Mine is more a conspiracy of reliability, though.

  101. Nothing like reading the exact TRUTH.
    Great post Mike Rinder.
    LRH specifically names the type of being who believes
    THE MARTIANS are AFTER him !

  102. I meant to say” took a powder”

    See link:

    Also as far as I know Yingling is former DOJ.

    Justice Department I believe Former AG’s Office Attorney

    Meade Emory is former IRS.

    Treasury Department.

    Former Commissioner.

  103. Scott Campbell

    I believe RJ meant “Took A powder” meaning, bailed out, begged off, did not confront or otherwise “blew”from the cycle.

  104. Scott Campbell

    She’s the best, guys. She can and will get your money back.

  105. DM is doomed! Fret no more time and support is no longer on his side. Yes u still have the crazies who give give give BUT that well will dry up too. He has single handedly destroyed LRH’s name and legacy.

    he will pay dearly for that.

  106. so will the peeps who bow to DM’s every wish!

  107. Thanks Dear Lady,

    Now ya got me blushing 🙂

  108. The cult will never live this down. It doesn’t matter if they managed to keep from being named an accessory. They are forever linked to this case in the court of public opinion.

    Rex let himself be driven to the breaking point and this is what you get; convicted Scientologist murderer. Good going dwarf.

    I hope the victim’s wife/family go after the cult for damages. Rex’s wife should too. Oh OSA if Rex’s wife ever turns, you’ll have one huge problem. Just think of the tales she’ll have to tell. Just sayin’.

  109. Long time listener, first time caller…if you will…

    Mike, that post just answered the majority of my questions about that man. The Napoleon complex was obvious all along, but I honestly didn’t realize that he was shit-house-rat-crazy to boot. Thank you for the
    summary. Wow.

  110. Mum is the word. Between the mind-numbing incorrectly run overrun FPRD and the crush tactics of the IAS, a person was driven insane in my opinion. And will spend the rest of his life in prison with no parole. And the c of s sits quietly in the corner deflecting attention. Not to mention the disaster to the deceased and his family.

  111. I am dumbfounded at the arrogance of Miscavige. He puts Lous XVI of France to shame.
    I am dumbfounded that these high priced attorneys do his bidding. I cannot believe that these people are completely unaware of the lies he manufactures.
    I am dumbfounded that these PI’s take these assignments.
    How sad that these individuals have forsaken their personal integrity and human decency for the almighty buck.
    I am delighted that this blog exists as a beacon against this arrogance and criminality.
    Thanks for this update. Very well done to one and all.

  112. OMG!


    That is so funny Mike!


    Really ya gotta write a book entitled something like “My time with the Megalomanic Psychotic with the Insane God Complex”

    That one about the navigation tracking system totally had me ROFL!!!!!!


  113. Scott,
    Got one of those too. Graduate degree from the school of hard knocks. I think most of on this blog have that cert, proudly earned.

    Yeah, your lack of censor – think that happened way before I met you. Don’t think you need it repaired, you would just wear the new censor out like the old and back to Scott – bare knuckled, not known to be soft spoken about his opinion, feelings or thoughts!

  114. LOL — THAT was funny! Reminds me of the Stepford “Every square inch wives”, too.

  115. Easy enough…I’ve been following this channel since day one!

  116. They’re hoping that someone will be stupid enough to say something stupid! They don’t realize the real stupidity comes from their employers: the Church of Scientology, run by DM and OSA.
    You’re right, ANOTHER FAIL!

  117. “Trees and bushes are after him. The lady in his BMW Navigation system is engaged in a plot with the microwave that is used to warm his milk at nite.”

    LOL!! 😀

  118. ….and Tony Hitchman who?

    Actually what I really want to know is whether Dan Jacobs was ever declared.

    See, all the other bad guys were (as far as I know), but Dan Jacobs testified in a way that undercut Slatkin’s possible “blame it on the Church” defense.

    If Jacobs wasn’t declared (he was sentenced to 4 months and ordered to repay $450,000 for obstructing the SEC probe, so he was certainly “involved”) that would suggest something to me at least.

  119. Sinar, MAD (Moms Against Disconnection) may have to adopt this song of WAR’S It could/should be our theme song! THANKS!!

  120. theystolemychurch

    So funny, while drinking kool-aid, my daughters did NOT finish their education, just went on staff. Yet, years later (13 years) my son went to school and graduated with a 4.0 and went onto college.

    Guess the kool aid was wearing off by then.

    Not to worry, BOTH of my daughters are in college now and very happily doing so, if I might add. As my amends, I am helping them in any way I can. I do value an education.

  121. what I wonder is if this case is about criminal charges for stolen property, not a civil case why the hell is the church sending PI’s when they aren’t even employed by the prosecution. The allegations are the COS are victims to a crime, they aren’t trying the case themselves. If the prosecution needs to dig up dirt to make their case they would send the police detectives to collect more information to build their case. This is basic law and order that anyone can get from watching TV am I right?

  122. theystolemychurch

    Me, too! But, I really do have that!

  123. Didn’t LRH write an essay about the need for intelligence AND force? Something about one without the other is not ideal? That is why I like my COMMANDO GIRL valence. There are some people who won’t listen to REASON or INTELLIGENCE. For them you find the “nine foot high fence” . . . . .

  124. Marty, Only once in the mid 1980s, but by then they were not the original band any longer. Some record exec in Hollywood completely screwed surviving band members to the point that they can’t even call themselves WAR any longer. Sometimes the original surviving members play as The Original Low Riders. The current incarnation of WAR is a bunch of other guys who only use the name and play the original WAR songs. (As we all know, there are SPs in other areas besides Scn Int Management.) Lee has told me he promises to get the best of this crim one day.

  125. OMG…completely Type III…when you’re not stuck in, the guys actions are hysterical.

  126. Gambino clan. The Gamboas are the sweetest folks your could ever meet. Which you have, Tom!

  127. Scott Campbell

    Plus I got that retard strength too!

  128. RJ,
    You and I agree. I have a college education and a Scientology education. If one has student hat and PRD and THEN college for some subjects it is just fine. When one thinks of designing airplanes, bridges, emergency medical surgery, etc – there is value in further studies. Part of the problem is today there are BS additives to the college education just as in C of M.

    The generalities of “Higher Education” is overrated. Most, without study tech and the ability to differentiate as per the data series are the following:
    BS bullsh.. degree
    MS more of the same
    PhD piled higher and deeper

    But if stripped to basics and true needed data they would be just like a Class 4, then Class 6 then Class 8.

    LRH covered this in the WOOC eval. The dumbing down of the world is occurring and the “higher education” is about as truthful a statement as we here at Int events about the unheard of expansion of Scientology.

    But, if I mash up this body in a severe auto accident then haul me into the nearest Level 1 trauma center and I want someone trained patching me up and keeping the body alive unless I wish otherwise. Let the doc with the degree work on me and not the self taught emergency surgeon.

    There is value in all of this. It is just missing study tech, conceptual learning and false data stripping.

  129. plainoldthetan

    I was watching a documentary today called Hitler’s Bodyguards, which made the point that at the time when Churchill had a handful of bodyguards, Hitler had thousands of bodyguards. Yet there were still 42 failed assassination attempts on Hitler that are known about. I’m suspecting that Marty and Mike have very very very few bodyguards. ‘Cuz they don’t need them. I even suspect that Mike and Marty manage to move about without bulletproof vehicles.

    Things that make you go hmmmmm.

  130. Scott Campbell


    I like it. Something sexy about it too!

  131. Joe, thanks. I swore I wrote Gambino. I know Fernando and he is a thetan plus. Anyhow folks – Gambino.

    ML Tom

  132. Scott Campbell

    DM in a nutshell, Mat.

    An old favorite…

  133. I found the reference: ETHICS, THE DESIGN OF, HCO* PL* 7 DEC 1969, Issue I*
    “1. Strength is nothing without skill and tech and, reversely,without skill and tech the strength of brutes is a matter of contempt.

    2. Strength has two sides, one for good and one for evil. It is the intention that makes the difference.

    For you non-Scientologists,
    *HCO means Hubbard Communications Office, and
    *PL means Policy Letter
    *Issue 1 means the first policy letter written that day.
    Much love, Lady Min

  134. Clearwater Lawyer

    Often the facts involved in a particular situation can have both civil and criminal impact. You are right that criminal charges and the underlying investigations is handled by the prosecutors office. This does not necessarily mean that a ” victim” cannot seek civil remedies. Remember OJ Simpson case, where the families of the victims filed a civil suit after the criminal trial. What seems odd is that if the state was going to prosecute they would want the “victims” to hold off on investigating any civil charges until the criminal charges are over. The prosecutors do not want to have the investigation compromised by an outside private investigator . Additionally it makes sense for the victims to wait until the criminal case is completed so they can later rely on that evidence without having to do it themselves . Maybe there is no longer an ongoing criminal matter .

  135. Thank you for that, Scott, it does a girl’s heart good to be called sexy, when you’ve been around as long as I have. Most of those who have had to witness it, don’t usually walk away from it saying it is sexy, (if they can still walk). But it is a nice fantasy, huh?

  136. lucy,
    The criminal case is probably dead in the water. Now, they go fishing for some excuse to bring into civil court to attempt to drag in all who help Daniel. It is the short story of – have no case- lets invent a case. They need something to even justify filing and naming defendant’s. Just a demonstration of more incompetence. This entire cycle has been an instant reaction and then work to make the reaction seem correct. This is more glutz PR.

    I like the fact that Daniel is now getting on with his life. He escaped, he is still free, he is expanding this freedom. The rest is noise from the peanut gallery. The losing side just can’t admit when the game is over.

    Don’t forget – who gets to watch TV at OSA?

  137. You crack me up! LOL! The Starship Enterprise! I am sure there are those in the Sea Org wish the starship would take them away – to a galaxy, far, far away . . . .

  138. Thanks RJ and Scott.
    To me, the value of education came home to me when I heard a man named Jonathan Kozol interviewed on the radio a few years ago. He is a graduate of Harvard. He is as left-wing as they come, and I am libertarian for the most part. He was talking in the usual words of the Left – “Struggle” “Social Justice” “Privilege” etc. So, I was not inclined to agree with him at all on anything.

    But, he started talking about the educational system in America, and the programs that were put in place, and the intentions behind them, and the absolute failure of American schools – and compared them to what “the Rich” get in their best private schools. Small, sometimes one-on-one tutoring. Open curriculum. Wide body of study. Educators that educate.

    He spoke of the language used by politicians of both parties when discussing education: “Training” and “Retraining.” “Jobs.” “Productivity.” “Keeping up with [insert country here]”.

    Then he said that the politicians were saying “we need to train our kids to be the highly-skilled workers of tomorrow!” Sounds lofty no? No. Kozol said: “Bullshit. You train your kids to be the ‘highly skilled workers of tomorrow.’ I’ll educate MY kids to be the highly paid CEOs of tomorrow.”

    The scales fell from my eyes. Education, higher or otherwise, is not about getting trained for a job, or even getting a good job. Education is about becoming a fully-developed human being. It is about being aware of what is going on on this rock of ours and our place in the universe, and about the plight of all of us. It is context. It is knowing what other people know, whether you agree or not, and also knowing how it fits in with your way of thinking. And, it is about challenging your way of thinking. This, to me, is what a true liberal arts education should provide, and used to provide before colleges became corporate and sports-business recruiting grounds.

    I believe every kid who has any intellectual curiosity (and let’s face, some do not) should have a good, four year liberal arts education – not majoring in anything that directly translates to a job. Majoring in “business” is basically throwing your education away. They should also be trained auditors. The two mixed, as I noted above, are truly awesome.

    I back-filled my education over the years, and have been astounded at the scope of knowledge out there and the greatness of the human spirit. It makes sense. People are pretty amazing. People can also be pretty despicable as well. It is good to know that we are not unique in our troubles. And with this back-fill, I have only found that my knowledge of Scientology only gets stronger and better grounded.

    Education is a good thing. I do agree that you have to be wary in who you let educate you!


    ” Ms. Yingling was a Trial Attorney with the Tax Division of the Department of Justice, Washington, D.C. from 1978-1983.”

  140. Tory Christman

    Well said, Mike!

    Also, a great book to read on DM and gang out at Gold is
    BlownForGood by Marc Headley. If you haven’t read it,
    I highly suggest getting it. He’s an excellent writer, it’s a day
    by day blows of the insanity, and it’s also very funny! 🙂

    Phew—it’s raining here in LA! Happy week-end to ALL ~~

  141. Tory Christman

    No, no…come on kids…let’s get the “Real Why” here for Davey and his gang:

    “L. Ron Who???

    There lies the under ground road of Davey-the-wanna be leader-M!
    Remember, boy: Tick tock, Tick Tock….Time is on *our* side! 🙂

  142. I agree totally SA

    As you know most good doctors become good doctors just like good auditors not from study alone by interning as well.

    That’s one thing society in general managed to actually get right!

    The problem I have with “higher ed” is its authoritarian pretense which hasn’t really changed all that much since the middle ages and the fact that much of it is purely theoretical.

    Like for example ‘Economics’.

    I’ve personally known one or two who can’t even balance their own check book!

    Ron discuses it in the DAB ‘Education and the Auditor’ in Volume 1 of the new and the original Tech Vols.

  143. Kim, thank you so much for your comment. It was wonderful, and VERY insightful for a non-Scientologist. Your observations are very astute, and please feel welcome to post your opinions here anytime. They are very valuable. I loved this part: “They looked like their souls had been sucked out of them”. Also, what your father said; mine was in Viet Nam, too. Three tours of duty there, at the end of a very long career that started right before WW II. I have suffered disconnection from my son, so I really appreciate your empathy, for the plight of those who suffer losing their loved ones from this cruel practice. It is interesting that you mentioned the Catholic Church, because an attorney with whom I am consulting mentioned some parallels between the Church and the Church. (C of S and Catholic.) There might be some legal precedents there that will help those of us suffering from disconnection. Thank you again and wishing you the best,
    Catherine von Ach AKA Lady Min

  144. It would be nice if you concentrated on her good qualities and intelligent observations, instead of a couple of inconsequential mistakes. It takes courage for a non-Scientologist to post here, and she should be validated for being willing to speak her mind, and supporting us in our fight for our spiritual freedom. Just my 2 cents.

  145. An absolutely perfect characterization of David Miscavige.

  146. prophetic, thank you

  147. Daniel, also known as CISCO KID, you are truly an inspiration! Keep up the good work, rebuilding your life and fighting the suppression. We are all behind you. You keep us old-timers going, with your youth and persistence and courage. CISCO KID, YOU ARE DEFINITELY A FRIEND OF MINE!

    To further your education, I’m going to give you a Latin lesson:
    That’s Latin for:

    You have our love and support. Let us know if you need anything.
    Always, Catherine von Ach

    P.S. My son Chase, now 20, could take some lessons from you. You would be an inspirtion to him, too, if he had the good fortune to know you. Hope to introduce you two some day, when Disconnection has ended, as it will soon. I know that you miss your mother, and I know that she misses you, and that you will be together again, soon. Just keep that love in your heart, because “To love in spite of all is the secret to greatness. And may very well be the greatest secret in this universe”.
    — From LRH, “What Is Greatness?” (March, 1966 ) CERTAINTY, Vol.13 No. 3 Official Periodical of SCIENTOLOGY in the British Isles. Found in TECHNICAL BULLETINS, Volume VI, Pages 154 & 155, First Printing, 1976

  148. There are a number of very good comments on education – or the neglect of it – as it relates to Scientology kids in particular. Don’t feel I have the bottom of it but this is the direction in which I think:

    Many (most) Scientologists actually avoid efforts in educating their kids, reaching their own goals, running their lives etc. by going the “Thetan route”, i.e. its all spiritual (and solved because there is a LRH reference on how it is solved). Before you think I’m “anti thetan” – it’s quite the opposite.

    The outpoint is that Scientologists often factor into the handling of their problems those tools which they (personally) are NOT capable of mastering. They heard of them but they can’t do them. Here’s an example of what I think of: in the PDC Lectures (lectures on the capabilities of a being, a thetan) LRH talks about education and gives the example of exteriorizing a kid, asking him to sort out his (mental) math “data base”, throw out all the false data and bingo, in 30 minutes you have a well educated math genius. Sounds great. Even believe (the emphasis is on BELIEVE!) it’s possible (but only have seen certain shadows thereof – some of them pretty strong shadows – and some of these shadows I have produced in others as well as myself).

    Using the Data Series you find out why a certain situation (problem) exists. Whether you use the Data Series or you own logic to find out why a problem exists you now need to come up with a handling. The Data Series (and regular logic) tell you ALSO that you only have those “resources available” that you ACTUALLY have and not those which you believe are possible. It’s on the same level as wishing to buy/pay for something and only having a certain amount of Dollars. How do you solve (handle) the problem (difference)?

    The c of m (and the superficial “believe” approach) is “Do the Money course” or “the next course”, “do the next auditing level”, “do the L-Rundowns”, “do OT VII” etc. as it will solve everything. While all those courses and auditing actions certainly are CAPABLE of producing the most phenomenal results, unless you actually HAVE achieved those capabilities they simply don’t exist (for you!). And the route I believe many went was simply going on hoping of achieving the necessary horsepower on the “next step” to handle the now bigger problem (because they neglected to properly handle the first one). It’s a route where the hope to find the magic key gets bigger while the unsolved problems pile up more and more.

    This gives LRH tech and policy a bad name every time someone talks about applying such and such a (LRH) datum without being able to actually produce the phenomena spoken about. Illness, PTS situations, finances, any kind of problems etc. etc. – unless you are actually capable of solving those things in yourself and others (by using whatever tech, methods or steps) you are just talking hot air. If you can solve these things you simply do solve them and your environment and your condition in life will speak volumes.

    It’s a matter of integrity to know and say what you know (I know, its from LRH and the rock bottom of how to approach Scientology) and you are better off saying you don’t know if you don’t don’t – for you won’t be able to handle a common cold if you can’t, no matter what LRH said in how many references. There’s no substitute for REAL training (not just for kids in school but for anyone in Scientology as well) where you actually have to show (to yourself!!) that you actually can master these tools. Unless you are auditor trained or personally have experienced something, how on earth can you truly say “well, auditing handles that”? Which is how I understand LRH when he said “a Scientologist is a trained auditor” (or something to this effect). It generally takes a lot of doing and making mistakes and truly learning! Merely citing a LRH reference won’t do you any good (neither will donating to the IAS, idle morgues, SP (super power) building, 6-month-checks, etc. etc.).

    Once parents properly learn themselves they will also properly educate their kids. Parents neglecting proper education of their kids will neglect their own education (as adults) as well (and I don’t care what education in what subject you are talking about) as a cool-aid alcoholic will not promote a sober environment.

    “What in Scientology that you have read or heard about CAN YOU ACTUALLY PRODUCE YOURSELF” might be a good starting point. It may help sober some cool aid drinkers.

  149. CORRUPTION of the part of LA Sheriff’s Dept that might be in cahoots with
    Scientology cut-out Private Investigators.

    When Daniel held firm to the truth, he was escorted to a dank cell at the East LA branch of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s office.   Without Miranda Rights being read he was treated to more interrogations by an LA County Sheriff Deputy Detective, bought and directed by Scientology Inc. 

    Scn Inc paid one Frank Salerno (one of many retired LA County Sheriffs who has claimed to be THE solver of the Hillside Strangler and other high profile cases

    I have forwarded on to those who would be interested.

  150. Thanks, Publius. I think you duplicated me well, and I appreciate it.

  151. 40 Yr Scientologist

    Great choice of videos, Scott. VERY pertinent, and fun.

  152. And here’s a great “theme song” to have playing in the background during your PI encounters…..

  153. Well RJ, whooda thunk it was really gonna turn out to be a “resistance to Command Intention is futile” Borg mothership…..

  154. she looks stoned in this picture. Same look she had on CNN.

  155. Lady Min, this is not a real person reaching out and offering support. If you were writing and wanted to mention Adolph Hitler do you think you would write Adolph Von Ach by mistake? Only if your name was not Von Ach. It was not an inconsequential slip. Beyond that she or he goes to great lengths to create a legend of how they got here, etc. Not real.
    I am sorry. It is a stupid game they are playing. You were right to welcome her in your honest and upfrint style and it is a testimony to your goodness. That will hopefully have its own effect.

  156. “Most of those who have had to witness it, don’t usually walk away from it saying it is sexy, (if they can still walk). ”

    Another reason you should not mess with COMMANDO GIRL! LOL

  157. Samuel – I enjoyed reading your post. The comment about the lack of education (apart from Scientology education was eye opening for me.
    My observation is that the bulk of the Scientology staff and Sea Org members that I know cannot make an independent decision. They are dependent on some policy for their decision. No common sense is demonstrated just robotic obedience. Policy is just a guideline.
    Wonder why there are so many botched up handlings in the Church. And one more thing – what a way to live somebody else’s life.

  158. RJ, SA and GH…excellent comments and we are very much in agreement. Possibly my comment was a bit shortsighted in expressing my full idea. I think this post of yours GH is closest to my ideas.

    I am very aware of the pros, cons and deterioration of education but if you look at the shape that most SO are in when they leave, it is pretty rough. Education is one of the three valid therapies and can be quite therapeutic for the over-restimulated and heavily invalidated beings.

    Sure they can take a GED, go finish high school or they could go straight to a JC. In the world outside of Scientology, the latter will have the greatest impact on opening corporate doors.

    California is very liberal and “a piece of paper” doesn’t mean as much in getting an interview but you head out east and the think is quite different. That piece of paper might be a major factor in why you didn’t end up in the circular bin. Lack of it can effectively prevent doors from opening.

    But idealy the person would have certainty on study tech application and at least rudimentary understanding of the data series before taking that route. They would know they were a thetan and when the universe seemed intent on stopping things, they could disagree and create their own universe, company, foundation, etc. When a person is trained and educated, then there really is no limit.

  159. My vote is with you on this one. Something just doesn’t feel right about the new poster.

  160. When will DM and his aggressive sidekicks ever learn?
    “Strange game, the only winning move is not to play”

  161. Karen B,
    Truthful words. If a German or Swiss citizen is booted out of the SO or manages to blow and has no “paper” it is really hard to get any good job. Parts of the US don’t pay attention but I know Germany is quite strict, even anal, about this details.

    As we show with our interactions, we who post here are able to see things from a pan determined viewpoint. It isn’t a strict pyramid with one pointed top and minions within the walls.

    The truth can set you free applies in so many different ways. We know the sun shines above by day and the moon by night and sure as an apple will fall to the ground tomorrow we continue to move on up a little higher!

  162. LRH really loved children and had very clear expectations of what education they should receive which he outlined in A TEACHR’S HAT. In many ways it parallels the same ideas of what he expected of auditors. He also talks about further education and whether one should do it or not.

    Mary Sue compliments this with the Nanny Hat which goes more into the treatment of children. Also the R and D vols have several articles on education which are outstanding and they detail how to educate in such a way as to bring about the highest level of self-determinism and reasoning in a person while educating them.

    At one time, I was so inspired by what LRH wrote on education that I thought if I was ever to join the SO, it would be to deliver that product to the children of the SO. Of course, I had no idea that future children had been banned in the SO. I only learned of this somewhat recently.

    Rather than taking his recommendations and working toward an ideal scene, Scientolgy Inc. does the complete opposite which by now is probably no big surprise. But, just as auditor training is still valid, so is the educational technology and it can be applied independently by anyone who has children. There is nothing that can prevent any aspect of the tech from being applied out here in the independent field.

  163. There is also a Scientologist named Bob Salerno, a former Olympic ski champion who runs a ski training facility in Santa Monica. Anybody know if there is a connection with this Frank “we’ll ask the questions” Salerno?

  164. Um – I am REAL person . I live in Denver – have a job, a family , even a dog and a cat. And a TV . Loki – I am not sure what the hell was done to you but believe it or not – there are REAL people out here who read this blog because the person who started this blog was on NATIONAL television with Anderson Cooper – talking to millions of people who had no idea who David Misgavige was . Please …stop thinking that everyone is some sort of reptile with a person suit on . You post here so you obviously have left but for crying out loud – you do not live in a vacuum . And Sinead O’Connor (Got the name wrong last night ) really DID rip up a photo of the pope on Saturday Night Live like 20 years ago .but maybe you are too young to remember – or by accounts here , maybe you were not able to have a normal life outside of the church and if that is the case – as a mother – i am really sorry about that -I thought you were all here to support each other ( and that really does seem to be the case ) but Loki – ease up ….not every one is out to get you and from what i have been reading here for the past year …you have all been put through the ringer so maybe your paranoia and disbelief that a REAL PERSON would offer some human to human “atta boys” is warranted – but then again – maybe your religion taught you to just assume the worst about people . Or maybe you are just a dick . I apologize if i interfered in a family discussion- it will not happen again .

    p.s. if any of you are interested – some guy named Rex Fowler was convicted of murder here in Denver yesterday – said there was a connection to Scientology ( not sure what )

  165. CW Lawyer,
    Please email me at

  166. Loki,
    Same impression I got. Just a bit toooooo much effort to explain while simultaneously trying to seem out of the loop. As if DM were an unknown or only slightly known. Too much effort to seem sincere. The wording was off.

    Though, I do appreciate a good hoax. And I do appreciate “outsiders” stepping up to the keyboard to lend support.

    However, in the end, none of us are outsiders or insiders. That’s just illusion.

    And our material selves, our masks of personality, are also illusion, creations put forth for the interest of self and others. So, I’m not really condemning anyone’s effort to create a persona by which to play the game.

    After all, which is the bigger lie: one we know we perpetrate or one which we no longer know we’re perpetrating?

    So, for me, “Kim” is a gorgeous Irish redhead with dazzling green eyes and an impish pout. Ah! Those lips! (And we will not address how she looks in a bikini as that would be an address of undress. And the Isle is much too shivery to walk around half naked pondering the misfortunes of those still trembling from religious misfortune.)

    And if “Kim” believes herself to be a boy, then I refuse to agree. Reality is agreement and I have cast my lot for Kim being of child-bearing potential.

    If only I could manage to be more politically correct, I would fit in much better, be more real to you all. But alas, the crosses borne.


  167. Good posts, Grasshopper. I have both a formal and a Scientology education, and I’m immensely grateful for both.

    Months ago, I posted at Jeff’s blog about how fortunate I am to have had the great teachers and learning experiences I’ve had from the first grade through grad school. Because of these good fortunes, I find it hard to understand why anyone would claim to be better off for having missed any kind of an education.

    This next bit comes from my Scientology education: I believe everyone is mostly responsible for the education they wind up getting. If you want to learn, you listen and read and ask questions and argue and apply and then go at it again. You don’t sit silent or sit on the back row or read only the minimum (if that) or fail to clear up your own misunderstoods. If the subjects that interest you aren’t being taught in the school you’re in, you find your own teachers and texts and schools that do, whether they’re certified or not. If your parents are rich and can pay for your education, congratulations. If they’re not, you can qualify for scholarships and borrow money and work part-time and full-time jobs to pay for your education. Because at the end of the day, MEST is temporary. What you learn (however you learn it) and what you can do (however you gain that) is yours forever.

    Just Me

  168. These two PIs were all set up to be good cop/bad cop. The one doing all the talking was so 1.1 that I’d have trouble not inviting him to my next birthday party.
    And the “I ask the questions, not you gambit” might work well in an interrogation room where he has a badge and authority, but guess what–he doesn’t have squat for authority. He doesn’t have squat for altitude. His ethics are out. He’s a criminal, involved with a criminal endeavor.

    His stable datum and his anchor points rest on his self-delusion that he still has the authority of the badge. I bet if you followed down this path, asking him about being a cop and not being a cop and not having authority but needing to hold onto authority (all pursued with a bit of boredom and disinterest) and serving criminal ends might make for interesting conversation. And every time he (or any other former cop/PI) throws out some crap like “I ask the questions) it might be fun to pull the rug out from under their self-delusion.

    “You ask the questions? Not me? What!? You got a copyright on the question mark? You’ve got a patent on inflections at the end of a sentence? Where, pray God, did you ever get the idea that ONLY YOU have the right to ask questions here? Let me see some authorization about that. NOW! HAND IT OVER, BUDDY!” You as-is his position.

    Another thing about control: if you control location, you control the situation. If you start dictating where the person is standing by moving them, you have gained, to that degree, control over them. “Hey, we need to move over here. Can you move over here out of the street?” And walk him a few feet off to the side. Then do it again once he’s settled in. Start, change, stop. It’s not about the ideas being argued or making conversation. Let the guy talk all he wants. Give him all sorts of irrelevant answers. Then physically move him. Not by grabbing him (assault) but just by manipulating where he can stand. If he wants to talk to you, you dictate where you are, so you can control where he has to be to continue the conversation. And it doesn’t matter how far you make him move. Or in what direction. Just force him to move, force him to change location.

    And this is stuff that can be drilled and improved.

    Just some thoughts and observations.


  169. Karen – “Education is one of the three valid therapies” – Bingo!

    As for the “piece of paper” that is true in CA as well as Boston. Those with the paper don’t realize the prejudice against those that don’t have the paper, especially in the professions. I know for a fact that I have been skipped over because I don’t have a college degree, and not hired for the same reason, despite years of experience in my field, and despite having had direct-reports with MBAs, MS’s and even Ph.Ds (some of whom needing some significant guidance).

    So, from a career perspective only, it is good to have the sheepskin. Far better than not having it. From a pure mercenary “get the bucks” point of view, it’s value cannot be denied. I am an unofficial member of a CMU old-school network because I worked with a team of guys who were all CMU grads, and we worked together for years. In addition to the degree, the bonds of college are strong, too, and people channel jobs and business to each other years after they left the old alma mater.

    However, again, the “ROI” feature is not the value of education. It is what I noted before: It helps a person become fully-developed, oriented to this planet and the universe, and to each other. And, Karen, what you reminded me of – it is one of the three valid therapies. So absolutely true!

    I had study tech in school, and training, as noted. That was immeasurably valuable to me. Getting a child through HAS, HQS, and Student Hat at least when they are in their High School years is a good TIP for any kid. Add the Data Series and Self Analysis.

    The danger of doing the Student Hat when you are in school is that Ron is pretty disdainful of schools – at least the downside of them – so it is easy (very easy) to dismiss the need for getting through high school and college. But, first, Ron was educated. His vocabulary alone attests to that. Second, Ron states the value f education and learning from those that know when he talked about his experiences with photography school. Thinking you already know is a huge barrier to study. Third, looking at school from over your shoulder is very different from looking at school as a future activity. Without the tools and the data series, school can be and oftentimes is an indoctrination camp. But it doesn’t have to be.

    I’m going to give some thought to what a good education program might be for a Scientologist.

    God knows the Church hasn’t!

  170. With all the documented cases of PIs following people around on behalf of the C of S seemingly just to harass – wouldn’t that be a strong argument for the people who want their donations back from the IAS? They were told their money would go to educate children in 3rd world countries, relieve victims of natural disasters etc.

    It seems to me that on a worldwide basis there are at least 250 PIs working full time. Most have specific assignments and don’t work full time, but this is on an average. Let’s say they make $100,000.00 per year, including the overrides of the companies they work for. That’s $25,000,000.00 per year. Then let’s say that on the same basis there are 50 high powered attorneys who make $250,000.00 a year. That’s $12,500,000.00 per year. Combined that’s $37,500,000.00 per year. Can anyone here tell me if I’m somewhere close or what. One thing seems for sure to me, the IAS spends more on PIs and attorneys worldwide than the C of S spends on staff salaries.

  171. I bet the nightly scotch helps.

  172. From my own point of view I agree with you completely. A good knowledge of the sciences has allowed me to get more out of both Scientology training and auditing than I would believe possible otherwise. Conversely, Scientology data, training and auditing have all provided nuggets that have helped me understand physical universe phenomena better than I could pre-Scn.

    If I had the opportunity to re-do my life training I would certainly want study-tech hatting at an early age, but then I’d want to be set free to learn what I wanted. That certainly would include both the sciences and Scn, as the Scn data was what I was seeking this LT. Scientology is definitely a science of the mind but, compared to the hard sciences, Scn is more of an art – the filling in of the colors of the paint-by-numbers picture of the universe and life. Hard science, I believe, can help us understand the numbers and thereby help us to get the right colors in the picture. I’m not saying that everyone has to become a physicist to go free. But I think a few of us need to become physicists and extend the correlation between science and Scn.

    However, in the mean time, and for one and all, a study of Scientology 8-80; TRs the hard way – 0 to 9 (especially TR8); and some light reading of the Lensman series can provide some “interesting” realizations.

  173. When Miscavige over saw the C/Sing and handling of Lisa McPherson which resulted in her death, I was the Treasury Sec FSO (Flag Servive Org).

    I would estimate that the FSO paid out $35,000,000 to $45,000,000
    for the legal handling. That was only a part of the total money spent
    as we could not keep up with the money needed once we emptied all our reserve accounts.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if IAS and SOR (Sea Org Reserves) didn’t kick in a similiar amount. Add to that all the bad PR for Scientology and the death of a person and you get the cost of just one Miscavige screw up.

    Of course Miscavige pretended to be the hero and the one saving the day and when the whole thing was finally over he announced it as a BIG WIN!!!! Everyone stand up and applaud while DM’s flying monkeys walk amongst the audience to spot anyone not clapping like they mean it.
    No joke.

    As a note – Debbie Cook, Don Jason and Tom Devocht were amongst those that winessed Miscavige C/Sing the auditing of Lisa McPherson.
    At the time they were 3 of the highest executives at Flag.

  174. Michael, your right, its just a game within a game within a game. Illusions, veils, tears, sorrow and joy. Multiple identities, some acknowledged, some not. The many “I’s” each of us has or had. The road is long, the path is not wide, but it can be travelled.
    And you have caused me to see “Kim” through a different lens than my too often cynical one as Scott rightly noted. Impish pouts work for me as well So “Kim”, in the spirit of play, WELCOME .

  175. Rex Fowler conviction for First Degree Murder nicely covered in the Denver Post
    Thomas Ciancio believed in ethics and treating people fairly, but he paid for his ideals by being murdered by his business partner, Ciancio’s older brother said Friday.

    “Tom wanted to separate himself from a system of beliefs that said it was OK to mistreat people,” said David Ciancio. “He wouldn’t stand for that, and that’s why he left” Fowler Softwa

  176. Kim,
    “…– ease up ….not every one is out to get you …….”
    Couldn’t agree more!
    Thanks for posting and have a nice weekend.

  177. Mrinder, LOL…your comment says it all.

  178. Kim. As you live in Denver and the Rex Fowler case AND its connection to Scientology has been in the forefront of the news for months and months, its funny you do not know what his connection is to the church, since you state you have read or watched nearly everything else concerning scientology in the news for the past year. Give it up.

  179. Dear Marty,
    Could you please include in the right colomn of your blog a link to the “The Courseroom” website to help promoting them?
    Thank you, Tatiana.

  180. LM, the very best reference on this is the SHSBC lecture “The Free Being”. Some great Space Opera stories in it too, which as we know drives the anti-LRH crowd up the wall. But it’s one of my all-time favorites and a great one to listen to when I feel the need to reconnect with my inner OT.

    Austin and Texas Forever!

  181. Kim,
    Thanks for posting here. I am glad you have found our little “drama” compelling and interesting enough for you to invest a significant amount of time into understanding it. That surely cannot be easy what with all the lingo and acronyms involved.

    As an aside, I don’t believe you are an OSA Troll because quite honestly, I don’t credit them with enough creativity nor understanding of the public at-large to be able to conjure up such an amazing description of the path you have taken in order to end up here. They just don’t have sufficient depth of perception and understanding about the greater world around them.

    If I’m wrong about that, well, welcome anyway…because you ARE welcome whoever and whatever you are.

    I spent quite a few years with the full-time occupation of communicating to people about the merits and opportunities within Scientology. It was my job to bridge the gap in understanding by people who were new to the subject.
    And my own initial contact with the subject was the result of my independent investigation and initiative to learn about it. And so again, I appreciate your effort to sort through the fog.

    40 years ago it was a far easier task . Scientology was pretty much wysiwyg.
    Today, not so much.
    To greater or lesser degree, we all feel we have fallen down the rabbit hole, or gotten unplugged from the matrix…or whatever metaphor may be appropriate to describing the total mind-f*** it is to discover our noble cause has been hijacked by a madman.

    Coming to grips with the reality that corporate Scientology is nothing more than a criminal syndicate is very disturbing for us all.

    Kim, you add a very valuable dimension to the discussion here and I hope you keep posting and giving us your perspectives.

    REAL Scientology is a very big tent. Those of us trained in the subject do NOT practice an exclusionary or elitist brand.

    All of good will are welcome. As far as I’m concerned.

  182. Being of Denver, I have observed that Fowler’s scene has hardly been at the forefront of the media for months and months. In fact, it has been surprisingly quiet. And before you go off on me, google Rex Fowler and you will see a minimal amount of traffic in the Denver media for some time.
    My question is who elected you “MAA” for this forum?

  183. Tory Christman

    What the Hell was that meant to say? Go on, spell it out. I know for me who is *always* first in line to try to push alcohol, incorrectly, I might add. So go on, you said it—fill me in.

    And for the record: I don’t drink Scotch or anything nightly. If you’re referring to Marc, IF correct, it’s his business. My Dad had Scotch every night, and was quite successful all his life.
    I still say to anyone who hasn’t bought Marc’s book: Get it! It’s funny, factual, and nails Dave on a daily basis.
    And it’s on the Top 10 for months on Amazon, too 🙂
    Ha Ha Davey boy 🙂

  184. Mat,

    I don’t know what the tech staff at Flag were thinking allowing Miscavige to “C/S” Lisa’s folder.

    When I was auditing at AO the CO’s Communicator came down to the HGC once and told me how the CO wanted a certain case to be audited saying “that’s what _wants”.

    My response was “I don’t give a fuck what _wants.”

    I mean it was back in the days when AOLA’s HGC was in a 12 week continuous affluence so I wasn’t taking much of risk by telling the CO to go fuck himself.

    However back when I worked in Qual we had all kinds of Execs telling us what kind of auditing programs they wanted their juniors run on.

    Sometimes they’d even give us a kinda wish list in writing of some kind which we’d immediately burn after reading then go ahead and program the case according to Standard Tech.

    This even happened to me when I worked on the Exec Series 40 project where we’d even have luminaries like Guilliame for example making suggestions on how this or that case should be audited which we’d totally ignore.

    That said.

    What happened at Flag is a perfect example of violating the PL ‘Orders Illegal and Cross’.

    I mean what is their defense?

    That even though the “C/S” was a “Class XII” he followed the dictates of a know best moron who never even successfully completed a Class IV internship.

    Not that I’m positioning myself as a sterling example since the fact is I’ve always had a button on authority anyway which is probably why I wouldn’t have lasted for two seconds under the New Regime if I had signed a SO contract 🙂

  185. Stunning. Thanks for the data, Matt.
    Information like this – both the financial and the witnesses to DM’s CSing the MacPherson case – shines a bright light onto secrets scientologists ought to know. The goldenrod on DM is one long bill of particulars.

  186. Good lecture Publius!

    Another favorite of mine is “Between Lives Implants” which is on the BC too.

    I remember getting into a heated debate with somebody from RTRC because they were thinking of removing such lectures from the SHSBC.

    You know to make the course more “acceptable” or “mainstream” or whatever.

    Sorta like they removed all refs to GPMs from the Study Tapes on the Student Hat.

    My response was:


  187. Hi Kim,
    I posted several days ago to offer my support and was met by some skepticism as well. At first I was hurt and felt the need to validate myself but then I realized something:
    Being an “outsider” and reading about and watching what the cos has put these great folks through is one thing- but actually living it is another. I will never pretend to truly know what they are feeling- because that would be impossible. But what I CAN do is follow their journey, offer my support from afar and wish them the best.
    I put an offer on the table to help in any way that I could and the offer still stands. If no one wants my help, that’s OK too 🙂 The most important thing is that young men like Daniele (who is the same age as my son), are getting out and are beginning to live the life they were meant to live.

    No reason for thin skin. If you are real and sincere, your love and support will be felt. That’s how I’m viewing this…
    My name is Kris Watters. I hail from WI (MA originally). I am a good, kind person. You can check out a pic of me on Twitter (@kikwatters).

  188. Good show Sir, Carry on.

  189. Oh my, doing the type of work she does looks as though it has taken its toll.

  190. DF,

    I agree with you that policy is just a guideline and that purpose is senior to policy and all that.

    But I think blaming Policy is the wrong why since most SO currently do not even operate per policy or even FOs.

    Instead they follow the insane orders of a lunatic because he is “senior” in the chain of command.

    Also the reason why orgs do *not* follow policy is because they do *not* know policy.

    A lot of this could be bypassed of course if many staff knew what the purpose of their post is.

    However most do not even know what the purpose of their post really is because they’ve never been Post Purpose or Product Cleared!

    This was supposed to be part of the DeOp tech that Ron wanted to institute but for various reasons the Coup that took over found ways to sabotage this program.

    Again Ron found from his famous Eval known as WOOC that the reason staff have problems on post is because they can not study and the reason they can not study is because they have basic mis-us.

    So he developed the KTL to address this and initially it was supposed to be delivered to all Scientology staff first before being released to the public.

    Well as we know the coup hijacked the program and started delivering it to public before even a fraction of started it.

    Never mind completed it!

    Same with Super Power which was supposed to be delivered by NWC to the staff *first* but now has turned into some money making scam in order to acquire big bucks and real estate!

    Policy is not the problem here.

    It is suppression, greed and probably an intention to destroy that *is* the problem.

    Even if policy were applied robotically and glibbly the Organization would be in better shape than it is now which currently “operates” under a whirlwind of *illegal* and *cross* *orders* and SPDs that have nothing to do with actual policy.

  191. Just Me,
    “I find it hard to understand why anyone would claim to be better off for having missed any kind of an education.” What a wonderful thing to say. I loved learning in Scientology. I loved learning in college. I love learning just sitting and talking with someone.

    If you’re not learning, you’re not really living.

    I remember taking a course and having the cognition that the material was only a fraction of what I could get out of my study. Most of what I got out of that course and every one that followed was what I contributed. If you don’t “give your soul” to the study, you’re cheating yourself.

    LRH was the only individual I ever studied that I thought contributed more insights into the subject than I did in my study. And that’s quite a tribute coming from an egotistical asshole like me. But, even there, his insights were his, and mine were mine. Without my insights, Scientology or Biology or Philosophy or Calculus would have been completely without value.

    It’s like I tell my kids, “Nothing is interesting in and of itself; it’s you who provide the interest.” To say a subject had no value is merely to say that you didn’t provide the interest and value. You didn’t give your soul, didn’t contribute your own insights.

    The most boring person you ever meet is a fascinating study of life itself. The most boring subject you will ever study is just a test of one’s ability to supply the interest; supply the knowledge, responsibility and control of the data to bring out the meaning.

    So any discussion of a subject is initially less a discussion of the subject than an examination of the student’s ability to learn. No subject has value if the student can’t learn. And to the degree that a student can study and learn, every subject has value–the value assigned to it by the student.

    So, Just Me, the value of your education is a tribute to you as a student of life.


  192. BODIL.

    As a 501C3 there is no auditing of the books.
    DM has a free pass as to what he does with the raped $$$FUNDS$$$$$

    I think the public would be STUNNED to read what this TAX FREE entity PAYS annually for Private Investigators and Lawyers and the John Connallys and the Frank Salernos of this world.

    The Public are raped for $$$$$
    The “Religion” hires a
    HUGE amount of High Priced Lawyers and PIs to cover its dirty deeds and HARRASS and FIGHT its enemies.

    Inside INT Base, top execs have been DECLARED SP including Marc Yager, Heber Jentzsch, Guillaume LeSevre, Marc Ingber, Janet Light (Mcloughlin) and a host of other 30-40 year vets.

    SEANCES have been held with gang bang punching, hitting, all nighters, demands for CRIMES. Sadistic lock down and held against will.

    There is no free passage in and out of the Guard Gates.
    Can Miscavige HOLD AGAINST will a few hundred people in the year 2011 ?

    Russ Bellin former head of CST tried to escape about 1 year ago but his leg got caught in the fence and alarms went off and Security hauled him back.

    He has not been heard of since.


    We can only imagine what penalty he paid for trying to FLEE…

    What “Church” carries on like this ?

  193. One of my favorites!

  194. Kim,

    Of course you’re a real person. You post, therefore you are. And to the degree that you post, you gain agreement or disagreement and a level of reality.

    We’re all levels and layers of real and unreal. And we’re allowed to have some fun with it.

    This post of yours was very real to me because it was so heart felt. Please continue to feel free to post. We don’t all get along here. We bicker and snarl at times, as you’ve witnessed reading the blog. (And, it’s even permissible to be a dick or a bitch at times. We’re a forgiving bunch.)

    Sometimes, we’re right in what we say and sometimes we’re not. I have been called to the carpet at times and humbled–but I learned a few things in the process. And learning is more important than being right.

    As LRH said, “When in doubt, communicate.” And I’ll add, “Even when not in doubt, communicate.” Communication just adds so much to this fun thing we call life.

    Hope you, your family and kids are doing well. I’ve got kids and love them to pieces. Unfortunately, they leave the pieces laying around and the place is a mess. But what the hey, such is life.


    ps: As an artist, I’ll just start a new canvas for you and move the “red head” over to the west wall where it gets the lovely morning light. No sense giving up such a beautiful creation.

  195. Kim,
    You need to re-read the comment you posted. Really read it. In it you’ll see all the hallmarks of a missed withhold. There’s something you don’t want known or you wouldn’t have become so nasty toward Loki. Remember, it was Loki who called you out. See, I’m not buying the bs that you’re new here and don’t have a clue what’s going on. You do.
    Please take your hostility and nastiness elsewhere…… back to your handlers.

  196. Gawd, I feel like I’m in the friggin twilight zone. That PI was so wanting to move from his 1.1 to 1.0 tone level down to hiding. Pathetic.

    I agree that Cisco Kid, M&M and the big T deserve major kudos for exposing that much more indisputible evidence that the Cof Miscavology is completely insane.

    Me: gee, lets get a new person through the comm course so he can have a better life.
    DM: F-you, you pussy. Lets hire some PIs and cave-in some criminal malcontents. Everybody knows they are all out to get me.

    Geeze, what a fraud that church has become.

    On the bright side, I succeeded in completing my comm course student. DM has failed utterly to cave any of us in:)

  197. Samuel I could not agree more.
    I had this life a good education. And a good training on electronics. Especially in electronics repair you learn the basics of finding the right cause. And the data series is basically the same tech. You find the real why and then handle it. You can enhance your skills applying the data series to e.g. electronics but without that training and only knowing the data series you cannot repair electronics.
    Sometimes scientologists do not like doctors and say „be not pts“ then you do not need one. But guess what: I do not like tooth extraction with a gripper. I go to the dentist that is well trained on his craft.
    I am eployed at a company that likes to promote to supervisor position (starting them on management career) people that are not educated and have nothing in their pocket but a interrupted university study. Why they do that: to better control them. They think twice to leave the company as they would have a hard time to get a good position elsewhere. Its all about control. In the mid ages the normal volks had been denied education. It’s all about better control.
    As we have carneval here in germany do not take this last line to serious: We postulated all very strong that DM (or little dictator) leaves the stage but now all the other ones especially in the arab world go first.

  198. Thanks GH,

    Never wrote that education wasn’t a good thing.

    Just how the siren call of “higher education” is used to manipulate and control others.

    Also as far as I’m concerned many CEOs along with many corporate execs are over payed leaches and actually prevent “productivity” which is ostensibly their aim.

    So they find some country that is willing to use unpaid slave labor or use the CIA to bully a country into banning trade unions so they can get a bunch of cheap workers to make a cheap and inferior “product” that actually costs more in American tax dollars and blood then to make back here in the good ol’ USA so they can make a tidy profit for their do nothing, unproductive and parasitical “investors”.

    (BTW if anyone gets the idea of labeling me a Marxist. The fact is that I’ve been a libertarian for years and actually shook Ron Paul’s hand back when he was running as the Libertarian candidate in ’88.)

    Anyway much of the “education” offered by the Corporatocracy is mostly aimed at making a quiet class of drones who don’t protest their mercantile and imperialistic actions that lead them to “jobs” in the “service industry” like emptying out bed pans and patting down lil’ old ladies.

    Unless you happen to be a scion of the elite.

    In which case you are “groomed” on how to take “command” of the masses.

    Anyway sorry for the rant but as I wrote I have nothing against education per se or in educating oneself.

    In fact I spend quite a lot of time each day learning some subject that I know nothing about that I happen to be interested in.

  199. Okay wrong Office but correct Department.

    However Monique does more than just advise lil’ Davy about taxes.

  200. lookingin, the story comes and goes as all do, but it has been a major story in Denver for over a year. For anyone who professes to read and watch anti church sites ,and who also lives in Denver, its unlikely they are ignorant of Fowlers church connection. Thats my point.
    Sorry if I offend you. No one elected me MAA and no one will. I am not the MAA. I just have a healthy distaste for deception. Frankly I am sick of it. And the church too often has lived on it. And they want to bring it to this blog to derail it. Marty recently stated that very fact. Perhaps in some small way I can, on occassion, while I am still engaged here, contribute to the motion that might prevent that from occuring. If I am wrong, the most harm done is that I will look stupid, feel badly and be ignored. I am sure you can live with that.

  201. I don’t think the comment from Revenimus was in response to your’s. Also, I think he was talking about COB’s alleged taste for scotch.

  202. Watching eyes, thanks for the observations . If we are wrong, we can be wrong together. I was starting to have some doubts until “Kris” came to her defense. There is a G-d.

  203. Leonore,
    At the moment children in Scientology are kept ignorant and made into slaves like all Kool Aiders. I don’t think that was always the same. I did formal schooling for 13 years and I vowed to never touch a study book again. Then I did the Student Hat and I knew I had learned more in that year than in those 13 previous years. After that I loved study and did a lot in many fields including the basics and congresses (a couple of times).

    I wished I had done the Student Hat earlier as that would have made all studies a lot easier, sensible and interesting. If kids are trained on Study Tech and then become an auditor I think it’s a very good career. It’s impossible to stay ignorant about formal schooling because any M1 and word clearing on their pc’s that have formal education should enlighten them as well as.

    While doing the most valuable job on the planet they’d get to know all the interesting fields of endeavor of mankind. LRH did so and could easily judge whether a field had good or bad logic and how it should be changed to become sensible. The outpoint is of course that Cool Aid kids never make it to active auditor but are used to manipulate family and friends and kept busy collecting 24/7 for Davey.

    Davey’s Catastrophedral has quite some leaders like doctors, realtors, artists, dentists, chiropractors, singers, investors, salesmen, etc, but they’re very actively destroying the fourth, fifth and sixth dynamics because of the mind control. However, it’s not necessary to have great leaders or big lobby groups if you want to change the fourth or fifth dynamics, you don’t need to have graduated with many degrees either to do so.

    In my country the educational system had been going downhill for decennia due to psych infiltration and 4-5 years ago a postulate was made to change that trend. Ever since the SAT scores have been up and dropouts were cut almost in half. I think only Finland still has a better education in Europe but we’d be winning the birthday game. Other countries are not only looking at our educational system but also at our healthcare (worlds best by now) where a similar postulate was made (Fact checker Cat Daddy will undoubtedly find the links).

    Of course, for such postulates to stick a vision, passion, constant alertness, understanding and KRC is needed. As reality is a great acceptance issue you better know about the prevalent educational systems and what makes a country tick.

  204. woah… That’s a little extreme- wouldn’t you say?

    As an outsider, I have understanding and compassion for your plight but take it from me- after following your thread for quite some time- it DOES take a certain amount of courage to speak out to support you (for this very reason).

    The notion alone that we are “outsiders” puts us at a distinct disadvantage. We are not part of your fraternity. We don’t know the “inner workings” of the church. We’ve never experienced their trickery.

    In all sincerity, how would you and others want people to post their support on here? Are there “magic” words that need to be said? Again-I’m being sincere.

    I don’t know Kim but then again, I don’t know the cos, either. In my opinion, she spoke from her heart and was just as disgusted as me by what we’ve been watching and reading in the news. And to me (again-i’ve never experienced the bullshit from the cos trolls), she was being sincere.

    What harm is it doing to you to take what she says as face value? You can only get hurt by people if you let them. To me, she has done nothing to hurt you. Am I wrong here? Am I being naive?

    Also (and I do know this first hand), there are many, many, many people who don’t know who DM is. Who dont really know what is going on behind closed doors at the cos. These people have jobs, families, hobbies, their own religion, responsibilities, etc… I would think that the few people from the “outside” who stand up and offer their support should be welcomed with open arms so we can spread the word of your plight (just like I have done). 🙂

    Peace and love.

    Kris Watters

  205. Hi Tory,
    I think Revenimus meant DM’s scotch!
    For me, scotch is yum in small amounts.
    By the way, I read your postings months before I came across this blod – so well done on your persistence and spreading around the truth.

  206. RJ, I don’t do “authority” period!

  207. What are DM’s tech certifications anyway? The most I’ve seen is that he did an Academy level IV internship where he slapped a pc! How could he have been certified with that kind of performance!?! …As I added to OTDT’s list of high crimes – pretending certificates and levels not attained.
    Does anyone know what his actual certifications are?
    – Leonore

  208. Jeez, Loki. Got manners? And, frankly, who cares if OSA hangs around here anyway.
    Hi, Kim. Stick around. I hope you enjoy your time here.

  209. Isn’t it funny how what seems self-evident to one person is not at all obvious to another.
    Kim, as I already said, I hope you enjoy your time here.

  210. In the witching days of Salem there was trial by water, trial by fire and a few other nasty items. In the days of blogspaces it’s mostly trial by time.

    It takes communication and understanding to become real as a poster. Bear in mind that there is an incredible reality gap between what former SO members have experienced (especially at Int) and the rest of us.

    The rest of us can most often only sit back and go “Holy shit, how’d they survive?” What they did survive and what they learned along the way definitely peaked the spider senses and other bulls**t detecting mechanisms, so when they go off, realize that is what is happening and that it will just take more communication and reality to handle it.

    Time and continued communication will always tell the story of who one is. In the interim, don’t take an attack or suspicion too personally. It’ll sort out.

  211. Karen,

    I am not an accountant or a lawyer, but I am surprised to hear you say that the Church’s books are not audited. It was well known that as part of the agreement to get their tax exemption granted that they had to agree to an annual inspection of their “books”. In fact it was an annual “event” that Treasury had to prepare for every year. Apparently we had an outside accounting firm, who had studied our Volume 3 OEC and the Finance Series, come in every year to inspect our records. Now this was at FSO, I don’t know about anywhere else. My understanding was that we were required to show compliance to our own policy on the subject of finances. Seems like an odd requirement from the IRS, but that’s what we were told. Plus it wasn’t just that “someone told us this was happening”, I also knew Treasury staff who would comment to me personally when they were under the gun getting ready for the upcoming inspection. I guess my point is, there are many clever ways to “launder” money. The mafia has been doing it for a long time. So I would assume that these guys are pretty “savvy” in terms of knowing how to show things the way they want. There is also the old way of having 2 sets of books. Unfortunately, with the kind of money involved they could afford to hire the best “mafia” consultants around. Sad but true.


  212. Thank you very much, Michael! And what a valid viewpoint you’ve described — interest and value comes from the student.

    I miss you. Let’s talk soon?


  213. Karen.

    Not to be contrarian but I reject the conclusion that “Scientology Inc.” actually controls the Sheriff’s Department.

    To me it’s just another brand of Illuminati conspiracy.

    Different cult different name but same conclusion.

    Also it’s the type of conclusion that the CIA funded Anti Culties love.

    Yes some nefarious and secretive cult fill in the blank actually secretly rules the world!!!!


    As far as I’m concerned Church of Scientology has become another cat’s paw.

    Another front in the practice of unbridled greed and corruption like the Jesuits of the past or the Skull and Bones or the Thule Society or Opus Dei or whatever.

    The key to all of the above is that they are or were to an extent influential and to some extent secretive organizations that aside from having influence can be influenced as well by certain factions and can be aligned to their interests.

    I mean the interest of the Sheriff’s Department is to look like they are “enforcing the law” and some poor kid is an easier target to portray that illusion with than say some rich or influential group or individual with a phalanx of legal eagles.

    Thus for them it is easier to kowtow to the “Church’s” demands than the demands for actual *justice*.

    True it is blatant corruption but they’d be doing the same thing for some other rich influential benefactor or maybe some Federal Government Agency who controls the purse string on their budget.

    First I’d like to break this idea that David Miscavige is any kind of a Scientologist.

    He’s about as much of an actual Scientologist by definition than say Charley Manson is.

    He just happens to have a lot of juice and an organization with a bunch of unquestioningly blind “kool-aid drinking” adherents and others who hide behind his actions as well who like him are *suppressive* but who like him can wield the organization like a club or a hammer.

    The objective as I see it is not to get Scientology banned by claiming it is the root of all evil but to eliminate his and his “friends” corrupt influence over the subject and the organization.

    Any way those are my thoughts on the issue.

  214. Exactly Val my friend!!!!

    A well placed punch line if there ever was one!

    I’m personally nominating you for the OTDT Excellence in Comedy Award 🙂

  215. I’m with you loki. I am an outsider and after a year of my own investigating I knew David Miscavige and Tommy Davis inside and out. I knew what their positions in the Miscavige CULT were and what assholes they both were. The RPF, OSA, SEA ORG–etc…. The wording is all wrong. Too much info (sisters sent away for crying out loud??)
    Sounds like play nice, make friends, lets email each other, then come the nails in the back! It’s too obvious. Also, CULT posters who leave comments on articles around the net and on youtube continually play the Catholic game stating the Pope is far worse than “Dear Leader”. lol

  216. A picture is just a picture and maybe it’s just a bad one, but she does look strange. Like theres no one home or something. There’s no sparkle of life in her eyes.
    Maybe she’s on psych drugs.

  217. Sfcott Campbell

    Commando Girl,

    Sexy is a state of mind. You’ve got it in spades – and that’s the reality of it.

  218. Scott Campbell


    You just nailed the ref you were talking about.

    Sexy is a state of mind. You got it in spades – and that’s the reality of it.


  219. I guess it is some sort of attempt to establish a posting name

  220. Your humble servant

    Watching Eyes,

    I am very surprised at this attitude from you, which strikes me as rude, hostile, and uncalled-for. I was also dismayed by Loki’s antagonistic comments. From my perspective, real “trolls” as you call them can be seen to covertly attempt to spread doubt and dissension among Independent Scientologists, to covertly support David Miscavige or the current church organization, and to simply distract whatever discussion is going on with irrelevant matter. I do not believe Kim O’brien’s posts have done any of these things. I take her to be exactly the person she says she is. I appreciated her posts.

  221. Scott Campbell


    Thanks for the considered reply. The U.S. education system was modeled after the Prussian School system of the early 19th century.

    It is designed to “separate the the wheat from the chaff” and selectively rout specific candidates into government, science, industry, media and education.

    Our public education system was also heavily influenced by John “the great reformer” Dewey of Columbia University teachers college. More like the great brainwasher if you ask me. His heavily psych and “social reform” laden agenda has brought our education system to it’s knees and imperiled our country’s future.

    Like you say education has it’s value, but your values better be right before you avail yourself of it!

    Some LRH on Dewey. “John Dewey (1859–1952) the “great” US educator who revolutionized teaching in America (and brought revolution into its universities) was a follower of Wundt’s theories. In Dewey’s time US psychologists were sent to Leipzig to study under Wundt.

    Pavlov and the “great” US educator John Dewey had the same teachers.”

    I agree with much of what you say but also feel that we need to implement entirely different methods and priorities regarding learning and living if we are to evolve to higher states of being.

    “The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.” –Albert Einstein


  222. Scott Campbell

    No need to get all “mushy” about it.


  223. Scott Campbell

    The first time I saw that was with my daughter and I went “OMG – it’s HIM!”

  224. Scott Campbell


    HCOPL ‘Orders Illegal and Cross’ was and is always the best shield to raise to deflect any kind of ill considered authoritarian orders.

  225. Samuel

    Excellent post. Thank you.

    I think you pretty much nailed it. The proof of any activity is in the “statistics”.

    As an example, one could ask oneself, “How am I doing on achieving the goals of my dynamics right now, and are my actions, on inaction, making improvements, or not, in that direction?”


  226. Clearwater Lawyer

    Scott, thanks for the clarification. Lady Minn, thanks for asking for the clarification. I was didn’t know what it meant either. Cl

  227. I’m with you on this one Hy.

    Know the Treas Sec of AOLA when the Secret Closing Agreement with IRS was signed and she told me the IRS Agents involved in verifying the Church’s accounts had been hatted on Scientology Finance Policy.

    Since as you know there are really no books per se in Scientology accounting a fact that my wife who’s trained in accounting used to bemoan when she worked in Treasury as a Non-SO.

    Also each invoice is also labeled as a donation for what and the appropriate Tax form which I believe is a 1098 is always issued before April 15th etc so the person can claim the deduction on their 1040 etc.

    That isn’t really the problem.

    The problem is if the money is being spent for all these “worthy causes” and how much is being absorbed by “administrative” costs etc and if these funds are being used for the inurement of the various officers responsible etc?

    Something the IRS is not obligated to do is keep track of is how the money is spent which is something the person who is making the donation is supposed to keep track of.

    They are mainly concerned if the proper forms are filled each year for the donations received which the Church does religiously.

  228. Your Humble Servant,

    I get what you’re saying. However, there are degrees of covertness. A real ace would churn up dissension among group members, wouldn’t they? Suddenly people would be off-topic (in this case not talking about Daniel and the PI’s) and would now be arguing over some other matter (is Kim a troll or not). Think about it.

    I’m a straight shooter. I call it like I see it. I can spot out-points a mile away. They literally jump up at me. Sometimes I’m not sure if that’s a curse or a gift but it is what it is.

  229. Very true Scott,

    It’s too bad the Reverse Technology Center and Int *mis*Management acts like they never read that PL.

    They are too busy applying “Message to Garcia” by the wrong Hubbard.

  230. As far as I know the lil’ turd doesn’t have any valid certs for anything other than being an abusive big mouth knew it all.

    For that he’s probably got GAT Red Sealed Cert.

    Other than that he thinks his false position on the Org Board gives him all the knowledge that comes with his false power.

    To most people Knowledge equals Power.

    However in Miscavige’s case it’s a total reversal of that equation.

    Power somehow equals Knowledge.

    Though he’s got his Orwell down as far as “Ignorance is Strength”.

    Probably his main “strength” 🙂

  231. You are correct that all 501 c3 organizations in the USA have to publicly make available their tax returns every year and it is a matter of public record. Where the church ducks and weaves this is they move a lot of their money off-shore so it is not based in the US. If you look at the churches tax returns you will see a lot of money being moved around from entity to entity ultimately being paid to NON us based entities so you don’t know the line itemization of where it was spent. The IAS is based on Curacao (Dutch Netherlands) , I think the majestic cruise lines (freewinds) is based in Panama or somewhere like that. And rumors has it that there are church accounts in Europe (lichenstein, etc…) certain countries that are known for complete financial privacy. The US based orgs are broke on paper and the SO reserves aren’t in the US.

  232. Carol,

    A true soulmate 🙂

    I believe I hear our song being played:

  233. here is the exact wording from the IRS website

    Disclosure Requirements
    Public Inspection of Exemption Applications and Returns – Section 501(c)(3) organizations must make their application (Form 1023) and the annual returns (Form 990 or Form 990-EZ) available to the public for inspection, upon request and without charge (except for a reasonable charge for copying). Each annual return must be made available for a three-year period starting with the filing date of the return. The IRS also makes these documents available for public inspection and copying.

    For tax years beginning after August 17, 2006, section 501(c)(3) organizations that file unrelated business income tax returns (Forms 990-T) must make them available for public inspection, and the IRS must make those returns publicly available.

  234. Words of wisdom.

  235. Scott Campbell


  236. I totally agree with you Chris and welcome to the discussion.

    Just as I welcomed Kim who I believe was making an honest and sincere reach.

    BTW to those who suspect that just because Kim doesn’t consider Miscavige the antichrist incarnate means she must either be a “troll” or works for OSA.


  237. Sorry you feel this way, “Loki”. I actually for bad for you that you have been so damanged by this horrible cult that you would push well-meaning people away.

    You have my info. If you doubt who I am, shame on you.

  238. Erwin,

    You da man!!!

    What you’ve written is very very sooth.

    Love your comments 🙂

  239. Dear Hy Levy,

    The Church’s books are not audited.

    There was a 5 year probationary period after the 1993 closing Agreement , during which the books were audited, this ended in 1999.

    The Church’s books are NOT audited by the IRS.

    The WALL STREET JOURNAL leaked the Closing Agreement.
    Good Stuff to read.

    Thanks for asking Hy. ✩ ♥ ❀ ♫ ☺ ❀. ♥ ♪ ☼ ♪ ☼ ♥♥ !!

  240. Kim and Kris,
    Many have come here honestly and sincerely. Many others to derail the blog or get posters to give up enough personal data to be tracked down. This does occur and posters get the short end of the deal. If you are sincere then your participation is welcome. How you post and what you post will establish your “credibility”. I will take you for your word.

    In summary trolls and those that wish to derail this blog get it off the topic of the day and into personal bickering. This has been done for over a year. That is why many of us are hesitant and gun shy. As you both said you observed and it looked insane. You haven’t a clue of how this insanity has impacted some of our lives, split up families, people lost jobs, etc. I also greatly appreciate all blog members willing to go to the defense of the blog. Without that function we would be far less able to handle or confront a large well funded and nutty group of people. If you read the posts of the operations and projects to shut us up you will get an idea of what we deal with.

    Have a coffee or tea, sit back, enjoy the ride and participate as you can. Your comments and input are what will establish you as one of the group here. I say lets get back to the subject of Daniel, his escape, and his moving on up to a happier and more functional life!

  241. (Retrieved from DM’s shredder)

    Office of the Devil

    Private Correspondance

    To: Davey Miscavige

    My Dearest Davey,
    Thank you for your letter of the other day. Yes, it is hot as Hell here. Thank you for asking.

    Your request to break our contract is of course denied. What do you think I am, such kind of idiot pushover? Get real, man. There’s no canceling of contracts with the Big D. You made the deal and now you have to live with it. Hey, has it been so bad for you? Just look at the perks you’ve enjoyed so far: unlimited power, nifty clothes, big stashes of cash, jet setting lifestyle, movie star friends, vacations up the whazoo, the opportunity to beat people whenever you want, fleets of cars, everything you asked for.

    Break our contract? Because you’re worried about getting your ass burned in Hell? Bwahahahahahahahahah!

    You’re in over your head Miscavige and there’s nothing you can do about it. So far, you’ve lived up to your end of the contract, so I have no complaints. What you’ve done to screw up the tech is just plain genius. The F/N thing alone was good enough by itself to practically drive a stake through Hubbard’s heart.

    Davey, you’re really good at this, I don’t understand why you would want to stop? What the hell, Hell ain’t so bad once you get used to the heat and pain. After a while you hardly notice it. Besides, it can’t kill you, you’ll already be dead! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    The FBI investigation is not a bad thing at all. It’s going to make you even more famous. That’s one of the things you wished for, right? More fame? Well, I’ve been delivering in spades on that, have I not? Power over others? Given you that. Great wealth? Your safe can barely contain it all. A good body? Hey, your mirrors ain’t lyin’ to you, are they? You were already too short, so there wasn’t much I could do for you along those lines.

    Yeah, in hindsight you never should have hit that PC and you definitely should have cleared up those MUs like your mother told you, but…you made your bed and now you have to lie in it. Prison won’t be so bad. You’ll get used to the food. The clothes, heh, don’t even worry about that. It’s no fashion show. The prison sex? Well, you’ll either enjoy it or you won’t, just like a lot of life.

    Just look at it this way, you’ll be getting what you deserve. Deals get made. Deeds get done. Prices have to be paid. Flows man. Flows have to balance out or else there’ll be a ridge. You don’t want to be a ridge now do you Dave?

    Routing out or blowing? Ha, don’t be ridiculous. You think I’d let that happen? There’s no routing out and there’s no blowing. This deal can’t be broken. You understood what you would be receiving and what you’d have to give when you agreed to this contract. It’s too late to change that now. Everybody’s gotta pay the piper sooner or later.

    So, enjoy your last days. There aren’t that many of them left.

    Yours truly,

    Satan the Devel Beelzabub
    Hell COB

  242. WE,

    As far as I understand the discussion is always fairly open and not necessarily limited by the post only guided by it.

    I mean how many times can you say Danny was fucked over and that the PIs that work for the Church are a bunch of jerks?


    Many of us were talking about education and its influence on society.

    Some of us about the Church’s Tax Exempt status.

    Others like myself were hatching crack pot conspiracy theories.

    Does this make us trolls or OSA ops?

    So we get an OSA op or a troll every once in a while.

    So what!

    Maybe they might learn something.

  243. Lucy. RJ , HY Levy

    Please NOTE that


    and what is done in an IRS AUDIT is different than an
    “Annual Inspection”
    or “Publically revealing TAX Returns”

    An IRS Audit is an IRS AUDIT.

    Marty ?

    This was your cycle.

  244. I think we are going round and round about two different things. IRS Audited vs. publicly available. I know that ABLE groups use to go through some kind of INTERNAL audit process. No clue about the church entities. I do know that I have requested from the IRS the tax returns and those are publicly available. But like most personal/business tax returns you have no clue where the money really goes and since they have million dollar tax attorney’s you can bet they cover their asses to the moon. You will never be able to tell specifically what your donations buy from the tax returns. and with as much money as the church collects, the IRS isn’t going to nit pick and scrutinize them where this million and that million was accounted for.

  245. martyrathbun09

    Two different animals entirely. The annual inspection was a tea party. An audit is a nightmare.

  246. Lookingin:

    “Between the mind-numbing incorrectly run overrun FPRD and the crush tactics of the IAS, a person was driven insane in my opinion.”

    Bingo! Add in the ethics cycle that came out of the FPRD that was probably run HCO Sec check style since he was on 7. Hence, the demand for indulgences — ie .. IAS donos, other donos, etc.

  247. RJ, Identities, similarities and differences…people discussing various matters about the church is different from people arguing about whether or not someone is a troll. Have you noticed Kim is MIA.

  248. Marty, Tiziano did a good job and you did , too, helping Tiziano avoid the attempts to get him to talk. It’s only natural to communicate but with PI’s one must beware.

    Frank Salerno should just walk away from this case and leave his reputation intact. He is way out of his league here as a retired detective. You can tell he’s probably not such a bad guy and was probably thinking afterwards as he walked away ‘what the heck did I get myself into’, lol

  249. Scott Campbell


    I see what this is all about …SENSATION!

  250. Karen#1, does this mean the COS can become the next Bernie Madoff? So is there no accountability. That agreement was made almost 20 years ago so does this mean they have immunity forever?
    Maybe it’s time people spend time at this link.

    Click to access f13909.pdf

  251. Scott Campbell


    I concur.

  252. Scott Campbell

    Trying something else to embed…

  253. Scott Campbell

    Wow. Embed procedure has changed for me. Now it is click “share” “copy” and “paste” in blog comment box. Different now. Before – it was “embed”.


  254. If you’d like some more info on how the IRS complaint process works go here:,,id=178241,00.html

  255. If you really want to feast your eyes check this one out. It’s a 52 page IRS doc on the subject of………….INUREMENT. Want to guess what group’s name keeps popping up in the doc?

    Click to access eotopicc90.pdf

  256. ROTFLMAO 🙂

  257. you are correct. See my post below where I state they are two completely different animals.

  258. Yay! I agree with you wholeheartedly SA.

    I apologize for jumping in and coming to Kim’s defense. That was not my place. I just felt like perhaps she was being accused of being a troll when she really wasn’t (because that happened to me and honestly, it hurt my feelings). I could be wrong about her, but I always give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise (I’ve also been accused of being rather naive in my life, so go figure 🙂

    As I stated, my son is Daniel’s age and after reading what he has been put through, I decided to speak up. It is so inspiring to read that he has people that truly care about him and are willing to help him even though they face harassment and whatever else may be thrown their way. It’s so wonderful to follow his story and know that he will now have the same opportunities my son has. THAT is what prompted me to tell you all how much I admire you all.

    I am going to continue to follow this blog whenever time allows because if there is ever anything I can help with from an HR perspective (labor laws, osha, etc…), I am a resource in that area based on what I do for a living.


  259. Ah ha. See you can get into trouble with MU’s. I assumed it meant something else.

  260. RJ- thank you for your comments. My intention was not to blame policy but merely to point that I have observed in the my org that policy is used to control and intimidate and to make one wrong if you do not toe the party line. I don’t need a lecture about how it should be because it isn’t as it should be.

  261. OTDT ,



  262. Tory Christman

    Oh…thanks, Bernie! I missed that one, sorry, to
    Revenimus, if that is what he meant.
    Soooo happy to hear my postings helped in any way, Bernie!
    Thanks 🙂
    Also: Guess what??? It SNOWED in Burbank, CA today!
    I’m not kidding—I had ice on my car window when I headed out to the store. Once on the roads, I saw the white slush, really. (I grew up in Chicago–so this is far from *real* snow—but still!)

  263. Tory Christman

    Yeah………I’m so sorry. I’ve literally spent YEARS with
    C of $ and OSA claiming myself and others out were
    “alcoholics” “Drug addicts” oh Gawd—too many false labels and lies to waste time on, for 11 years, now. So I miss read that comment and I am sorry R. Thanks DFB and Scott.

    So Davey boy is a Scotch lover, eh? Maybe I’ll bring out some out to him. LOL.
    “Hello, I’m here to deliver some Scotch to Mr. Miscavige”.
    I can hear it now:
    “TORY::: GET THE HELL OFF THE PROPERTY OR WE WILL CALL THE POLICE” (same as they said last time I went out there telling the bozo at the gate I wanted to see the midget Davey boy and I wanted my money back! Many years ago, now).

    Anyways, let me get my crow bar out to get my foot out of my mouth. Love to ALL 🙂

  264. Now that you mention it Carol


  265. Tory Christman

    Exactly, DFB. In 2000, once I actually saw what OSA was doing, (re spamming the Net back when it was one newsgroup: ARS), I asked Yaude: “Isn’t this going to be obvious this IS C of $?”
    He: “Oh Hell no! We’re spamming ALL kinds of other web sites so they’ll never get it’s us”. (Plus they hired computer people to post, also).

  266. Love it OTDT 🙂

    And Dave here’s a song just for you.

    Just say your ticket’s already been punched and the conductor’s smilin’

    It ain’t so bad enjoy the ride:

  267. 40 Yr Scientologist

    Just frickin’ awesome, man.

    “Break our contract? Because you’re worried about getting your ass burned in Hell? Bwahahahahahahahahah!”

  268. Your info-lines are mighty good OTDT.

    Daniel inspires a lot of folk to communicate…good times!

  269. 40 Yr Scientologist

    Great selection, Scott. Rod Serling so often really nailed it!

  270. The name is Daniel, Daniel Montavlo

  271. Listen to Mike Rinder RJ, It is just gross no refined conspiracy. Just filthy bribes and cynical inhumanity, small people politics and people who can’t contain their perversity, Perversity about money.

    All made possibile by a filthy little man with to much money at his disposal.

  272. Athough on other boards I would tottaly dump on her picture. A picture is a snap-shot.

  273. Or dissacociated. Being not really there. In the CNN case I would say dissacociation. A picture is just a snapshot. Maybe in the latter she is just not well rested.

    She is still a bitch tough. Corrupted soul is Corrupted.

  274. If you want something done . It’s wise to employ people who know stuff about what you want being done.

    Knowledge is power.

    DM lacks knowledge and even grass roots understanding of legal Matters. It maybe frightens him. Yingling and Moxon understand and have knowledge of legal matters.

    Therefor Moxon and Yingling are DM’s defensive system. And that Eliot Abelson guy.

  275. “constant alertness and the willingness to fight back”,

    “The price of freedom is constant alertness, constant willingness to fight back”

    -L. ron Hubbard

    “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”

    -Thomas Jefferson


  276. RJ,
    You have to realize that Miscavige is the “dictator” of the Sea Org. He can and does do whatever he wants internally because he has no one to answer to.

    Realize that the key technical people at Flag are mainly veterans of the Sea Org who have served between 25 and 35 years. Many of them are in their 60’s. They own liitle to nothing. They have no money, no credit, no job history and no real place to go.

    If ANY Sea Org member even looked incorrectly at Miscavige he could order them to the lowest possible post or to the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force) or thrown into the street and it would be done instantly.
    Not only wouldn’t they get a chance to say good by to their family and friends – due to the disconnection policy, they would probably never see or talk to them again.

    Don Jason told me that when he stood next to Miscavige, while Miscavige wrote the C/S instructions in the folder of Lisa McPherson for her to attest to Clear, that he wondered to himself if Misavige was even C/S trained. For his own self survival at the time, he decided not to challenge Miscavige on the point.

    Miscavige is a cancer inside the Sea Org that can not be corrected internally as he has removed the checks and balances originally put in place by LRH.

  277. LOL!
    OTDT gets some competition here.

  278. Thanks,
    I know you know!

  279. In politics you can attack a person or his idea’s; the first will give you an endless fight, both sides making up arguments to proof themselves right. The latter will often end in both sides finding out where the basic illogic came from which made them disagree. Scientologists would know this and don’t attack persons, especially not those who offer help and forward insights previously unheard off.

    Attacking propositions, idea’s and statements will generate a productive discussion where both parties may learn something and increase ARC. A troll would get himself in more and more trouble to the point where it becomes plainly visible and he may admit or even shed a few coats upon cognition or (sadly enough) be whistled back by his slave master.

    In the end, no matter what someone says or how he acts, everybody loves to go free and this blog might provide a stepping stone.

  280. Communication works greater wonders than overwhelm or rejection. Gradients are much more applicable than instant accusations based on perceived outpoints, especially if those could accompany any new poster what would actually make them plus points.

  281. Hmm. Thanks, RJ. I know you’ve said that you think that he is really rather a dim bulb, and you think others are keeping him up propped up in that position. I don’t know if it’s that he’s dim, just carrying around too many demon circuits, has too many evil ints, skipped his own basic education, whatever. It just baffles me – despite all the conversation – how such an unqualified SOB can occupy that post for 25+ years.

  282. OTDT,
    You really have an amazing imagination. Another great metaphoric caricature that completely captures the concept.

  283. Karen and Marty,

    Thanks for the clarification. I always enjoy being educated by those who know what they’re saying. By referring to the inspection as a “Tea Party” it also expalins to me why things even I knew about that wouldn’t stand up to an “audit” somehow got by the “inspection”. I guess the accountants they hired were more like “trained seals” than “man eatin’ grizzlies” when it came to really looking into things.


  284. Karen,

    Another unconventional (but probably legal) thing I was aware of was how they bought properties in CW from local Scientologists. They would buy the property for an agreed upon amount and write the person a check for the full amount. In the agreement (written or verbal I don’t know), the public agreed that they would pay back in a portion of the amount (different in percentage and amount for each individual) for services. This money was then NOT invoiced as income (GI) but was separately invoiced by the Finance office as a different kind of transaction. Their services account would then be creditted for that amount of service. This bypassed the whole FP line and the money went straight back to the Building Fund account where it came from. This was explained to me by the then Finance Officer FLB. I found out when a public came to me to buy 2 12 intensive packages on a Thursday morning (about $ 130,000) and I found out I couldn’t count it as GI. So bascially the FSO had to deliver the service for free (as they received no income for it) and the property was. I assume, then owned by the Int Landlord Office (DM). A new wrinkle on getting the org to put more money into DM’s pocket (as an asset that could later be sold of course). This was done with all the condos owned by Scientologists at 300 N. Osceola as well as other properties in that vicinity. It was for the new accomodations and new Flag Solo HGC building that was planned to be built right next to the Sand Castle. Just thought I’d mention this little tidbit.


  285. Watching Eyes,
    Thank you for your viewpoint. It is the multiple viewpoints on this blog that bring us to the truth. I would like to address what I believe is a common mis-understood reguarding missed withholds. The indicator of which is criticism, carping criticism, not borne out in fact. Then there is the indicator of bypassed charge, antagonism. And nothing creates BPC like a wrong indication. I did reread what Kim wrote 3 times. I see no carping criticism. I only see the the reaction of a stated wrong indication. I hope you don’t feel offended by my mention of this but, it is a pet peeve of mine. This type of wrong thinking has caused harm to many a case. It is also ok to disagree. sincerely, 1 SP

  286. “Kris”. I believe anyone who trusts you does so at their peril.

  287. RJ, Kim went out of her way to bash the church. That is not even the point. You impose your views everywhere as you are a prisoner to your intellectual pride , self importance and your need to be right. Your a pompous ass in my opinion. I will not miss you.

  288. Watching Eyes, its a gift. I am sure it has and will keep you on the sidewalk and out of traffic. Best wishes to you.

  289. Kris,
    Understood. You did what you felt was correct at the time and had the integrity to state it. That is the same as most of us on this blog. Hang around and don’t get lost. We have our own language and reference material unknown to you. But, you will find most of this blog is posters who are the most decent well intentioned bunch of people you could find. We cover the world from EU, to AF and Australia to North and South America.

    What we have in common is a belief and understanding of the basic goodness of man and the fact that true Scientology had technical procedures to help increase that goodness. We get rather heated over the alterations of this technology and the mistreatment of other staff and members of Scientology. We are on the outside – so for a great degree we post and argue points to help those still stuck in the inside.

    In this manner we, and those we care for can all continue moving on up a little higher as time marches forward. To those to whom Scientology is unknown we wish new people to have the available of the original L Ron Hubbard writings and lectures so study. Then they can find from those what is true for them. Nobody has to listen to another’s determination of what is true for me, or for you, or for your son. We are free independent spiritual beings all living on this same mud ball of a planet and we need to learn the truth of how to survive together.

  290. Once again , I genuinely apologize . I was only trying to offer my support – and I do not know the lingo in order to do that without being considered suspicious. I used my real name and email .I had never written on a blog before and I did not expect to take the reactions against my post so personally . ( thus this follow up post – a weakness of mine ..i do not like it when people think badly of me when i am actually not being a bitch for once ) It hurt my feelings to be considered a “troll” and it got my irish up . There really are people who wish you all the best – i hope that you can feel it and once again , i am sorry . I got in way over my head with something that i really do not understand so reaching out was not the best choice – if there is a need for this young man Daniel , and there is a pay pal account of some kind – I have several friends ( all mothers )that would like to donate to him ..but only if it needed and appropriate.

  291. TroubleShooter

    Good post Kris.


    For those who have no experience in this battle it is BECAUSE of the varying degrees of intimate understanding of the tactics used by OSA by most who post here that your postings may generate suspicion, cycnicism or sarcasm. It may appear to the outsider that there is an inordinate amount of suspicion to those who post who have no personal experience with the church of Scientology. I can absolutely see that myself.

    For me personally it’s a bit of a surprise to see postings from people such as yourself. Because it takes time to keep up with the blog and the media stories and other blogs and books etc on this subject – I ask myself why would you spend your time on this blog or other sites if you have no personal connection to it? From there past experiences can kick in and conclusions hinted or plainly stated ensue.

    I think it’s safe to assume that it’s NOT that your input isn’t welcome or Marty wouldn’t put your postings on his blog. Historically however such postings HAVE been found to be more the work of OSA directly or indirectly.

    This IS no place to be if you have thin skin that’s for sure. Scientologists are some of the thickest skinned people I know. There’s a fundamental spirit alive on this blog and that is to be FREE. To pursue that for self and for ALL takes guts, courage and VERY thick skin even to a fault but surviving has for most here required an acute ability to ferret out deceptions and/or audit them out with the e-meter.

    You will become known for who you really are sooner or later based on your own communications. So if you can take the heat – we’ve got a big kitchen.

  292. Brrr!!
    Bernie 🙂

  293. Kim,
    I posted a note above to Kris you should read. To help Daniel you can either donate with a note of for what on the donate button at the top of the page of email Marty (on the welcome button at the top of this page.)

    There were several thousand dollars from around the world to help Daniel to get free from jail collected here and none was kept but all passed on. You can ask Marty for details on how to help with Daniel at this time.

    Your willingness to help is to be admired and acknowledged. Just participate in the blog and you will get to see what the trolls do that is damaging and why some are sensitive to trolls on this site.

  294. RJ

    Please read Marty’s essay and my response.
    Nowhere does it say
    Not to be contrarian but I reject the conclusion that “Scientology Inc.” actually CONTROLS the Sheriff’s Department.

  295. Thank you HY.


    Please Email me privately on Facebook or Gmail.


  296. Yours truly,

    Satan the Devel Beelzabub
    Hell COB


  297. Hi Kim,

    Carol and I were just wondering where ya went that’s all.

    Glad you’re back 🙂

    We are the last people on Earth who would as we call it “reg” people for money.

    But no none other than a utter moron (which proves Miscavige isn’t an utter moron just a complete idiot) would refuse financial help once offered.

    Anyway as I wrote earlier you are totally welcome here and if you have any questions I’m sure many of us will be happy to answer.

  298. You got a beautiful site. I like the product and hope you keep expanding. I don’t know about the standardness of the Tech in the Freezone but as far as I can tell the intentions and results look wonderful.

    I understand your universal love desire but I think LRH has written KSW and many ethics and justice PL’s as well as codes to ensure the Tech doesn’t get lost and reaches all dynamics in a reasonable time frame. It can’t be that bad if people like Amy and Marty speak out, which brings you new customers.

    Keep up the good work and I hope Marty will post your link.

  299. Thanks loki.

    And I love you too 🙂

  300. Well pardon me all to hell Karen,

    But I was getting the impression from your comment that you were elevating the Church of Twisted Sisterology to the level of the new Illuminati.

    If I was wrong I apologize.

  301. Some food for your thought.x

  302. Thanks Hy for that interesting “tidbit”.

    This whole thing looks like a financial irregularity on steroids!

    I mean as far I understand it Herbie was fired from guns by the ol’Man for far less!

  303. Very good observation 1SP.

    I’ve seen many cases messed up because someone accused the PC of having a Missed Withhold.

    Besides the fact that it is also called “Illegal Auditing”.

  304. martyrathbun09

    Hey Chris. Just like you to add some enlightenment. Thanks.

  305. Thank you – I understand better now i think . I made a donation for Daniel to go out and do something fun.

  306. Snowed here in Glendale too Tory.

    Yeah I know you guys farther north are probably laughing your asses off at us.

    But we’re not used to this stuff down here.

    I mean a snow flake hitting the 101 can cause a twenty car pile up down here.

    And cause all kinds of UFO reports.

    Anyway I’m glad I put the top back up on my Jeep 🙂

  307. martyrathbun09

    You are appreciated.

  308. Tory,

    It was Davy’s Criminal Mind workin’ overtime agin’.

    He’s probably toking a few spliffs with his JW Red.

    You know for medicinal purposes 😉

  309. CD,

    I beg to differ.

    Mike has his view and I have mine and you are entitled to yours on the matter.

  310. CD,

    Sometimes you can be annoyingly didactic and pedantic.

    Also Marty has said Miscavige is a dupe.

    Megalomanic patsy.

    He follows the “advice” of people he thinks that are at his elevated level of godhood who actually get him and the organization into further trouble.

  311. Kim,
    Thanks for persevering to the point of understanding. I also want to give a big thanks for support toward Daniel. As you continue with this blog you will find facts, stories and solutions that are applicable to many areas of life. Glad to have you alongside.

  312. Mat,

    I sympathize but the facts are that the C/S responsible didn’t query the order ,allowing Miscavige to violate the Ivory Tower rule and became an accessory to committing a high crime by allowing Miscavige to “C/S” a folder.

    The least he could have done was write a Job Endangerment Chit.

    Personally I don’t buy the Nuremberg defense.

    As far as I’m concerned the person who follows an illegal order is just as guilty as the person ordering it.

    Especially if they know it is *wrong*.

    Also it wasn’t exclusively Miscavige who eliminated the “Checks and Balances”.

    *Others* were involved in dismantling them as well by instituting an authoritarian system of government within the Church by eliminating WW, Ad Councils, FP Committes, the GO and turning the Exec Councils into nothing but a rubber stamp.

    Also *others* were responsible in failing to personally apply standard policy and tech in this instance in particular by not at least demanding to see Miscavige’s credentials.

    So what if he sent them to coventry or whatever for asking!

    At least their integrity would have been intact and just possibly Lisa McPherson might still be alive today.

    And finally I do not have the same abiding faith in Government you seem to have and I sincerely doubt that their outside intervention will “save” the Church even if Miscavige is eliminated.

    Unless those within the Church decide to reform it.

  313. Leonore,

    Because he is being held in place by a prior confusion just like any other evil intention or non survival postulate.

  314. Why thank you. I feel all warm and fuzzy now.

    Nah I think it’s more animalistic. He recognizes his fellow snakes.

  315. Kim and Kris,
    One last comment. I know you are trying to understand how some of us feel. You can go to the following link:

    This is the International HQ for the church. This is where you find Gold, Int, RTC, etc. Abbreviations you may not understand but they are organizations with different functions.

    At that link about 1/4 down is the razor fence staff are kept behind. Almost half way down that page is a red outlined photo. The top left of that photo (click on photo and it expands larger) is the area marked “detention compound”.

    I want you to know many who post here have been kept behind that fence and in that detention area. Some still have friends/family located there. To an outsider it may seem bat crazy. To us, we want serious changes and freedoms for all Scientologists, inside the current church or outside as Independent’s.

    If you are like me some of those photo’s on that link are shocking – in the US, in California, in 2011 – and this exists! Take with sincere understanding reactions you get here. The “trolls” we speak of are working for those maintaining that fence and that facility. We don’t have any patience or desire to be nice in that area. Hope this brings some enlightenment and more understanding.

    Thank you both for your help and input. Hope to see you continue with us.

  316. Just Me,

    Sounds good.

  317. Absolutely. Could not have stated it better.

  318. I’m sorry you feel that way, “loki”. I, on the other hand, wish you nothing but the best 🙂

  319. Thanks for that 🙂
    Like I said, I’m going to continue following this blog as I admire everything you all stand for….

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