Corporate Scientology’s Ideal Student

Now that you’ve seen the Ideal OTA, Ideal OT VIII, and one hell of a lot about the Ideal orgs of David Miscavige, let’s take a look at his Ideal Student.   A year, almost to the day, after having come to Corpus Christi with 19 other Corporate Scientologists –  including Tommy Davis, Michael Roberts and the Duffs (Denise and Michael), Jan Eastgate, Chris Smith, et al – aboard Tom Cruise’s private jet on a mission to “intimidate” me so as to kidnap JB, Michael Doven has been rewarded for his failed mission.  Miscavige is now touting Micheal Doven as a celebrity of sorts: the first Golden Age of Knowledge Completion.

Get it people, four years after the release of the largest single cross order to Scientology Training in the history of Scientology, ONE person has completed Miscavige’s line-up to hell.   Is Michael auditing anyone?  No.  Is Michael even an auditor?  No.   Is he enrolled to become one?  No.   A year after having the opportunity to have his head screwed on straight by me personally, Doven has been taken OFF the Bridge.  Here is the exclusive interview I had with Michael last April where you can witness Miscavige’s ideal student acting like Miscavige’s Ideal OTA Allender:

*transcript available at the end of his post compliments of Margaret

Here’s the post giving the context and what lead up to that interview:

There is a reason Doven was awarded full time study by Dave (and called an “internationally recognized artist”) after his failed mission.  The clue is in the interview link – and Doven’s waffly, doubt-ridden, comm lags.  If he ever jumped ship – having served as Dave’s live-in spy to Tom for the ten years he was out of Scientology –  Dave and Tom couldn’t handle the fall out.  Having nothing but cowed, ill associates has its advantages.


Transcript of phone call between Marty Rathbun and Michael Doven on Wednesday, April 28, 2010:


[Sound of birds chirping, footsteps, car door opens/closes, clearing throat, rattling keys, etc.]


[phone picks up]


MARTY: Michael.


MARTY: Hi, what’s happening?

MICHAEL: Well, uh, love to chat. Uh, love to chat you up a little bit, and see if I can inject some sanity into this thing.

MARTY: Inject some what?

MICHAEL: Sanity.

MARTY: Into what?

MICHAEL: This whole scene, Marty. This whole … this whole scene, you know?

MARTY: Yeah, well, you know I’m willing to talk to anybody on any subject, my Grade 0 is fully in. Uh, but I don’t think you know me well enough to know the incorrect way to approach me is to have 12 people … or 16 people in 4 cars descend on my place.

MICHAEL: I understand that. I mean you don’t know me well enough to know … I actually understand that.

MARTY: I know .. I know you know. But yet .. but yet you DO it. And that is the frightening thing. I mean there’s this gamemanship, this intimidation stuff, and you’re being a vehicle for it. And I know that you know that it’s not right.

MICHAEL: Yeah, yeah. Well that’s uh … that’s not my gig…you know …

MARTY: I know that Michael.

MICHAEL: … everyone has their agenda. And … and … there are certain … you know there are individuals with passionate feelings about .. you know … communicating with you in different ways. Right? And uh … and uh … you know, although there may be some agreement as to … uh … the desire for that to occur … and/or the uh … you know, the … what they want to communicate … uh … that’s … you know the HOW that takes place … that’s uh … I’m calling you now. I’m calling you now. And uh …

MARTY: Where’s everybody else?

MICHAEL: Well I don’t know everybody else … I’m at McDonalds with … uh … two friends. Uh, I don’t know if you know ‘em, Michael and Denise Duff …


MICHAEL: Michael and Denise Duff …

MARTY: Uh huh.

MICHAEL: … and Michael Roberts.

MARTY: Michael Roberts? And uh …


MARTY: Wow. Who were the other guys in the car with you?

MICHAEL: That’s who was in the car with me.

MARTY: The guy in the back with the blonde hair is Michael Duff?

MICHAEL: Uhhh … this morning … that is a dull morning … No, that’s not … no Michael Duff has black hair.

MARTY: Right, he was in the front seat with the camera.

MICHAEL: Uh yeah … uh yes, but the guy in the backseat’s name … I don’t frankly know.

MARTY: Is it an Int guy?

MICHAEL: Um, I believe … I don’t know.

MARTY: You got a guy in your car you don’t even know Michael.

MICHAEL: Yeah, well there was a car load of individuals, and I didn’t know … have everybody’s name.

MARTY: Ok. I just uh … this is very odd. I like to identify who it is who came to visit me.

MICHAEL: I know, I know that. I understand that. I … I uh … I would have chosen to … uh .. you know … I would have preferred to call … email … then show up. You know? And make an appointment. Something … that would have been more … uh … more uh … more my choice. I’m not going to make less of other people’s choices, but that that would have been what I would have chosen to do. And uh … it’s just a straighter uh … straighter approach … you know?

MARTY: Mmm huh.

MICHAEL: So … so … uh … so there you go. That’s … that’s that.

[Car door opens and closes; sounds of cars driving by.]

MICHAEL: Umm … I just wanted to talk about your … you know, over a number of months … it’s just like … Alright, what’s taking place here? HOW is it taking place? WHY is it taking place? WHAT is taking place? You know, how … how … how we get to this point, to where one who wants help and who wants to help people I know and care about … uh …

MARTY: [while walking] I’m helping people Michael now … this is the wrong button … I’m helping people now like I’ve never helped people before. In fact, I’m doing my job unobstructed like I’ve never been able to do my job before. So I don’t … that paradigm doesn’t really work for me.

MICHAEL: Yeah, but let me ask you a question. At one point, before, just earlier, somewhere earlier, was there a sense of KNOWING you were helping with certainty and KNOWING that it was working, and KNOWING that you were contributing to something good? Was there that point?


MARTY: You told Tiziano that I was “the who”. What did you mean by that?

MICHAEL: I told Tiziano that date coincident with the time that I spent with you, or directly after, were the lowest work years of my life.

MARTY: Mmm hmm.


MARTY: And you attribute that to me?

MICHAEL: I don’t know where else to look, Marty.

MARTY: [Laugh]

MICHAEL: I can look at myself, I can take responsiblity for my shit, alright …

MARTY: Everything was … everything was hunky-dory until Dave got his talons into Tom [Cruise], and now Tom is a mini-me David Miscavige and that’s your problem.

MICHAEL: Well, I … I … don’t know …

MARTY: And I saw it, and saw it, and I witnessed it and I observed it, and I was completely in a position where I had no obligation or no fish-to-fry with anybody, and I observed it.


MICHAEL: Okay. And … and..and..and… uh [unintelligible] … that’s your viewpoint.

MARTY: I mean … it IS my viewpoint.

MICHAEL: Yeah, okay, you’re entitled to that. I … I got that. I … I got that. I uh I don’t work for him. I haven’t for a number of years. I haven’t seen him. I’m not currently … that’s not … I’m not here to represent him, you know? I just have my own … you know, whatever. I got that. But I got the sense back then … did .. you know, you said you didn’t, you weren’t … you had no agenda at the time. You know, and you were just … but, were you helping? Did you help …?

MARTY: To answer … to answer your question … an earlier time when I was helping …?


MARTY: I think when I got Tom’s case straightened out from all the quickie bullshit he got from Ray, Dave and Greg … got his OT IV straightened out, got his OT V done, got him through his divorce, got him his life together … got him to start helping people like he’d never helped before, like Jaime … that was help.

MICHAEL: Okay. Okay. So you had a sense of helping, alright? So at what point did you decide “Okay, now let’s just fucking destroy them all, and destroy everything that I’ve just worked for ….”

MARTY: What are you talking about?

MICHAEL: “… and anybody that’s had any gains.”

MARTY: Where’s this generality coming from? Where’s this generality coming from?

MICHAEL: Well, what do you mean … which generality?

MARTY: Destroy … who am I destroying? Who have I … attempted to destroy? Who have I … I have not attempted to destroy anybody.

MICHAEL: Well, listen …

MARTY: Who have I attempted to destroy? This is Dave’s case you’re running on me.

MICHAEL: No, no, no, no … (unintelligible).

MARTY: Oh this is. This, this, this is. You’re trying to put intentions into me that I have not demonstrated, I have not communicated. Nor have I demonstrated in my actions.

MICHAEL: Well okay, how about this? In terms of your actions, let me just … just ask you … in terms of the numbers of individuals around the planet who you know and have cared for at one point, who have had absolutely wonderful wins and gains, HOW are they being affected by your actions now?

MARTY: Who? Name somebody. Is there a problem with somebody?

[Sounds of interior airport noises in the background.]

MICHAEL: Any, any upstanding current member of Scientology …

MARTY: Yeah …?

MICHAEL: … are you helping them or harming them?

MARTY: I’m helping them. And …

MICHAEL: And HOW is that help?

MARTY: Because they are stalled and they are getting reverse Scientology applied to them. And they are becoming, and doing things against … they’re doing things against their nature, and they’re being requ … [to someone else next to Marty] … hey Peter, how you doin’ my man … you got my marine corps cap on bro …

PETER: [mumbling] Mmm …yeah …

MARTY: … you big time …

PETER: [mumbling] …mmm …mmm…

MARTY: …been a long time we talked …

PETER: [softly] … yeah right …

MARTY: …alright bro, I’ll catch ya. [To Michael] … Umm, reverse Scientology’s bein’ run on all y’all. And the fact …

MICHAEL: Okay … okay …

MARTY: And the fact that you’re having to go out and do things that go against your better judgement, is the proof of it. The fact that you admit you come out down here with 16 people to try to ambush Marty and try to intimidate him somehow … I mean I know you Michael, you know that, you know me better than that. You spent two years with me, man.

MICHAEL: Well … I uh … I’m talking to you now.

MARTY: I know, and I’m talking to you.

MICHAEL: [Softly] I know. [*deep breath*] Here’s the deal Marty. I … you now, the people I run into … and I got that you have attracted to you all the disaffecteds and those who have …

MARTY: That’s not true.

MICHAEL: … bad things not …

MARTY: That’s not true.


MARTY: That’s not true. The disaffecteds … you know the Anonymous people called me … and said I’m a much bigger threat to Miscav … to them than Miscavige will ever be. Because they see the same thing. They see this guy as taking the whole ship down with him, and they’re afraid of me. So the disaffecteds and people that want to attack Scientology, fear me more than they fear David Miscavige.



MICHAEL: … well what does that mea …? … I don’t know what that means.

MARTY: What it means is that this conver … what it means is that this conversation you’re having with me should be being had with David Miscavige.

MICHAEL: Yeah, but …

MARTY: He’s your problem.

MICHAEL: But I see …

MARTY: He’s your problem.

MICHAEL: I got … I got that you … that that’s your viewpoint. I see … what I see is I’m winning … and doing well … and having wins … and expressing those wins … and sharing them … and pitching in … and joining orgs … and helping … that’s what I’m seeing.

MARTY: Have you read my blog?

MICHAEL: I’ve read parts of it, not everything. I’ve read parts of it.

MARTY: Well, you know, it’s like spike Lee says … judge me by the body of my work, don’t judge me on some individual thing, ok? Read the blog. It’s like we’re … it’s like two ships passing in the night right now. I wear my … I wear my Self in the wide open, and I bare my soul. It’s all there for the whole world to see. And for you to start telling me that I’m doing things to *attack* uh … multiple … even multiple individuals, let alone uh, you know … multitudes of people … it’s just inaccurate.

MICHAEL: Well how are you HELPING all of those of us, including yourself in earlier years … [inintelligible] … put some chance of hope there for people … how is that helping?

MARTY: I don’t know … I don’t know where to begin with you, because it’s all there. Scientology’s been hijacked. It’s been hijacked for the personal aggrandizement of a extremely egotistical person.

MICHAEL: So what are you gonna do, take it back? Or just give it away, or just destroy it? What’s the plan there? Wreck it because it was hijacked? Or make it better?

MARTY: Take it back? What you mean “take it back, destroy, hijack” … no … what I …

MICHAEL: I don’t know, what are you going to do with it?

MARTY: What I’m doing with it is applying it. Applying it as it was intended to be applied. And making it safe for others to do so. You guys gotta wake up and smell the coffee, man. The Church is dead, man.

MICHAEL: That’s not true for me and thousands of others, but if that’s true for that’s true for you, and I’m sorry to hear that.

MARTY: The Church is dead. He killed it. It’s dead.


MARTY: I’m doing that right now, man.


MARTY: That’s why you need to … that’s why you need to do your homework … instead of just taking orders from DM … and find out who you’re talking to, because you’re talking to a reality point ….

MICHAEL: I haven’t talked to him or seen him in two fucking years!

MARTY: And you’re going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that you’re not following his orders right now … you tell me Tommy Davis uh … commandeered this whole plan and figured out to send 20 people down here?

MICHAEL: I’m telling you I volunteered to come and speak with you because that’s what I wanted.

MARTY: Because we need some straight R on this … I mean if we’re gonna have a talk, let’s talk R, let’s not talk bullshit.

MICHAEL: Okay, I’ll tell you straight, I volunteered to come because I wanted to talk to you.

MARTY: You wanted to *stop* me? Where’s that at, man?

MICHAEL: I wanted to get in comm. And I gotta tell you, you must know by now … that that probably isn’t too popular.

MARTY: Iknow, it’s completely unpopular.


MARTY: Utterly, I understand that.

MICHAEL: So that tells you where I stand, you know.

MARTY: Shheesh … Michael, you came down with 20 freakin people, please.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Well …

MARTY: I gotta pick somebody up, I’m gonna have to call you back, I’m sorry they’re coming in right now. And I’ve got one of your guys is video-recording me, in the uh .. in the … in the … you wanna tell these guys to back off, or do you wanna …

CHRIS SMITH: Who are you talking to?

MARTY: I’m talking to him.

MICHAEL: They’re not my guys.

CHRIS SMITH: No, I’m talking to you right now. No, I’m actually talking to you right now.

MARTY: I’ve got Chris Smith doing a confrontation with me …

CHRIS SMITH: I’m doing confrontation?

MARTY: And a guys got a video camera in my face …

CHRIS SMITH: Now this is Marty “Destroyer” Rathbun …

MARTY: …so you wanna talk?…

CHRIS SMITH: … being videotaped. Who is it you’re talking to Marty? Who could be more important than us?

MARTY: Here you go …

MICHAEL: Now we’re …

MARTY: (Back into the phone.) I gotta go. I’ll talk to you later.

122 responses to “Corporate Scientology’s Ideal Student

  1. Old School

    What a shame. Maggie B. was such a sweet person so long ago.

  2. Is this GAK supposed to be a prerequisite for training now?? This seems to be a big departure from “Read it, Drill it, Do it” 🙂

    If one didn’t know better you would think that DM was on a campaign to stamp-out the practice of Scientology everywhere…. That’s too harsh obviously, he just wants to eliminate that other-intentioned practice of “auditing”; It really distracts from the purpose of Orgs, Regging.

  3. I love that at this event you will “Find out exactly what is slowing your progress up the grade chart….”

    Comedians can’t write irony better than this.

  4. For those who might need/want it, there’s a transcript of the Interview here:

  5. Translation of the above poster:

    We want to attract you to the event by showing you someone who finally finished listened to the altered and edited lectures.

    We have people on hand who’ve practiced extensively how to field your statements in a way that is designed to lead you towards giving money.

    We’ve thoroughly word-cleared the word ‘to’ as in “moving to OT”, meaning not attaining it, but merely possibly in the direction of paying homage to the idea of.

    We still have two C/Ses left.

    You have to make your own hamburger, as practice for joining the Sea Org as a cook if you don’t have any money to give us.

    Other than that, not a bad poster design, really.

    Don’t forget to RSVP because it’s really going to be so packed they’re already worried about the budget for the hamburgers.

  6. All I can say has been noted before: If you want to control someone, lie to him. If you want to own him, get him to lie for you.

    Looks like Mike D is bought, paid, stamped, wrapped and put on display.

    Bruce Pratt

  7. I worked with AOLA on events and recovery tours when I was on their OTC . The ‘Bridge Acceleration Events’ were poorly attended reg cycles (attendance improved slightly with the introduction of food). What the hardworking Div 6 staff who organized them failed to confront was the obvious reality that the reason their public aren’t going up the Bridge is because they’re broke on having given donations, their Bridge actions (and ‘set ups’ and inevitable repairs) are too expensive to buy. They really don’t want to take out yet another loan (and in all honesty they’re not doing so well since their last session but don’t want to say anything lest they incur costly ‘repair’ auditing).
    All is not lost though. I suspect many inside the C of M see the glaring out-points and have just yet to confront who the SP is. My favorite auditor at AOLA., having a penchant for telling it like it is, once told me “Maybe if you two gave less money to the IAS you’d be able to get more Bridge done”. Rumblings of dissension in the ranks Davey?
    Keep looking good people still trapped inside. Keep pulling the string. We’ll see you on the other side.

  8. Hi Marty;

    Sad. The audio tape of your friend Mike clearly demonstrates the failed product of todays Scientology Religion; this lost soul can’t seem to put five words together without his mind stuttering.

    He can’t be very happy these days.

    I wish him a speedy recovery when he wakes up.

    Hopefully fence sitting lurkers will listen to this recording, and understand the failures it represents.

  9. “Build your own sandwich and hamburger bar???” Say WHAT? Has some one been playing Photoshop? That CANNOT be for real.

    OTDT, over to you.

  10. Karaoke anyone?

    Hit The Street

    You got nasty habits,
    the kind that bother me.
    This crap you’ve been passin off,
    is not Scientology.
    My best friend, I can’t bring to you,
    You’ll serve him up to eat.
    Doncha think there’s a place for you,
    out upon on the street?
    C’mon now, Davey
    Doncha wanna hit the street?
    C’mon now, Davey,
    Doncha wanna hit the street?

    There’s scores of screwed up people,
    that’s more than you can see.
    They got BPC, they got only bills,
    it was their bet on eternity.
    They queue up right on Thursday,
    Just round about one forty-five.
    Don’t ya think we need some Standard Tech
    To make it come alive?
    You’d look good, man,
    rolling on down the street.
    C’mon now, Davey,
    Doncha want a piece of me?

    Those OLs are so flighty now,
    they make you want to buy.
    Some piece of shit old building,
    to satisfy your lies.
    The Tech, it’s gone, it makes no sense,
    it’s down the bloody drain.
    And when you talk, it’s laughable,
    it’s fodder for insane.
    Now doncha think that maybe,
    things’d be fine without you?
    So don’t ya think, Davey
    you don’t even have a clue?
    Yeah, c’mon now, Davey,
    Doncha wanna hit the street?
    C’mon now, Davey
    Doncha wanna hit the street?

    Note: In 1965 (I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction was composed and written at the Fort Harrison. In light of that amusing historical significance, I shall not be remaking it. As each individual likely has their own version, I shall leave that up to you and suggest perhaps a musical soirée some summer evening in Texas.
    Mix Lips

  11. I was just thinking of a win that I had seen from Maxim Lebedev, very unique that went something like this:

    “My space is very clean now, my auditing now goes much better because I can look into the space of my PCs and see things, and blow these by looking at them.”

    Never seen this in the Church. We should aim for this kind of win as independents.

  12. Status Scientology. Doven is an arrogant douchebag.

    He’s got a big cert, but no practical application or doingness to show for it.

    I kept asking about the lack of practical application on the Basics. A SrCS told me something like “They wanted to, but it would have made the courses too long”. I don’t know where he got that data or why people don’t mind throwing out bits and pieces of LRH.

    I can’t study and learn without practical. I got about halfway through and I just couldnt do it anymore. Sitting there reading books and listening to lectures for months or years with no practical. That makes me into a zombie or something. You can’t evaluate data if you can’t use it.

  13. Enough Already

    Exactly right. The Church doesn’t even ATTEMPT to train auditors in volume anymore. It’s all THEORY, THEORY, THEORY. An old-time HQS student (beginning Scientologist) could do more to help people (with Touch Assists, Contact Assists, How to Make a Person Sober Assists, Objectives, and Self-Analysis auditing) than Michael Doven could ever do with all his “2 years of full-time study” on the “Basics”.

    After all of Miscavige’s perversions of training, we should all remind ourselves WHAT TRAINING IS NOT– pure significance, no doingness, Michael Doven. While Marty audits, Michael talks.

    Every one of us should take a few minutes to read over the following LRH references on exactly WHAT TRAINING IS:

    They have all the LRH quotes on what “training” really means. It’s supposed to be about DOINGNESS, not endless theory. (Thanks to Marty for originally turning me onto this website via his blogroll.)

    Note to Michael Doven: You may want to read the above website yourself and learn to AUDIT and INTERN the way it was designed by LRH– Remember him?

  14. Wise words of the Day!
    From the great audio between Marty and Michael Doven:

    Time 11:51
    ”What you gone do, take it back?
    Give it away or just destroy it?
    Wreck it, because its highjacked?
    What’s the plan there?“

    “What I´m doing with it, is applying it.
    Applying it, as it was intended to be applied and make it safe for others to do so.

    You guys gone wake up and smell the coffin, man.
    The church is dad man!”

    Thank you Marty for standing tall and to walk the talk.

  15. “Sitting there reading books and listening to lectures for months or years with no practical. That makes me into a zombie or something. You can’t evaluate data if you can’t use it.”

    Perhaps that is the point.

  16. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Margaret, I copied and pasted it into the post.

  17. That’s sounds like me man. Ever since I threw in the hammer, I just sit down with a few jugs of Irish Cream Cappuccino’s and click on a few lectures and breeze through a few LRH books to remind me of old times.

  18. Freedom Fighter

    I was just listening to an LRH lecture this morning from the “Life Continuum” series (29 Dec 51) where LRH emphasizes action as opposed to just putting a bunch of knowledge into books and letting the books sit on a shelf to collect dust.

    Given that this is the type of action I’ve seen comming from DM and his minions, however, no thanks:

  19. Yep, you got that right! Nice analysis, OTDT!

  20. I like that!

  21. Lesson on robots; how they speak – well, how they don’t speak anything intelligible.
    Sad, ’cause that guy could have been an interned Grad V in that time and actually DO something for somebody – actually make Clears!
    He is the product of his master – signed, sealed and certed.
    Yeah, does anybody remember LRH anymore?!

  22. Howard Roark

    Thanks for posting the transcript. This Doven guy isn’t a very good communicator. Reads like his Grade 0 isn’t fully in.

    When I started on the Bridge I thought these OT VII’s and VIII’s were someone to look up to. There is not one that I would want to end up like, and I know many.

  23. Mother of Grendel

    About a year ago I spoke to an org’s Cl 8 Sr C/S who’s an old friend. I pointed out how ridiculous it was that we had to study the Basic Books out of context of auditor training and wouldn’t it be wiser and more productive to have these same people who are in the course room now, on auditor training? You know with the same push you could sign them up on auditor training and make that the thing to do. They could read the books AND get trained AND audit, co-audit, go Clear! Why this diversion??

    He sheepishly grinned, giggled, shrugged and said, “I agree with you 100%. It makes no sense to me and we could have 100’s of auditors in the same time it’s taking folks to read these books – kill two birds with one stone. I would prefer it.”

    Obviously not the intention of DM. How many years later to get the “Ideal Student” award? And he’s not even trained?? Gimme a break.

  24. Former Flag Customer

    This is sad.
    After two years of BASIC study, Michael could not complete a simple cycle of action. He even avoids ARC and other tools of Scientology.
    The $COS is drifting.

  25. crashingupwards

    This Michael Doven is at the bottom of the admin scale and program steps. He is a “product” and their “ideal scene”. But he cannot audit. Like a pretty picture, hang him on the wall and admire him. And he wants to challenge Marty on “helping people”. I dont think so. Your just someones tool. Wake up. And if you can’t wake up, at least be an auditor and put your money where your mouth is.

  26. Mix Lips-Now I can”t get that tune out of my head.

  27. That Michael Doven guy used to be in Tom Cruise’s shadow and is now a puppet — Not surprising, he speaks like the person who pulls his strings: unintelligibly. In that entire conversation, Michael Doven cannot complete a whole thought — because he has not been allowed thought of his own.

    In a couple of places Doven manages to get out “sound bytes” that have been “drilled” (not as in practice makes perfect, but literally drilled) into him — some hem and haw about he’s not gonna evaluate.

    The Promotional Poster is trying to fabricate Doven into another “celebrity” now. Did anyone catch the News Video on CNN last week, about another “Artist of the Stars”? I watched it and saw paint by picture portraits of John Travolta, then Tom Cruise, and thought: WOW this guy is not a good painter, and the stars are the usual tired closet of Scientology celebrities. I wondered if he wasn’t a Scientologist and looked him up: sure enough David Zimmerman. Cookie Cutter “artist” and attempts to inject “celebrities” (READ: worms on the hook) into the culture so the public will bite.

    Sorry David Zimmerman, you need to break free too

    I believe that more than anything the Corporate Scientology Organization fears real artists — real artists are unique, they inspire and uplift and they communicate well and freely.

    Michale Doven is a puppet. As they say in Hollywood: You can’t polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter.

    The problem is Scientology is not a turd, but what the Glittery Organization is selling and the people coming out of there are *nothing* like the unique, bigger than life, eccentric genius Hubbard was. Say what you will about the man, he did give people a chance and had faith they could be as rowdy, ethical, and awesome and big as they wanted to be. I only see that in people who left. The ones coming off the production lines of the Corporate debacle calling itself Scientology are glittery, obedient, polite turds. Ouch…that is a tragedy.

    Hope they shake off the glitter and go for the real gold of wisdom.

    All we “Degraded Beings” out here are smarter than the arrogant turds give us credit for.

    Thank you.

  28. Love it!

  29. Dude, there are sandwiches _and_ hamburgers! That is some MEST that I can get behind, particularly if I whip up some cholesterol bomb with bacon and pastrami and a kind-of-beer patty.

    I wonder if you have to fry up your own burgers, though.

  30. Doc Holiday

    But I don’t want to build my own sandwich and hamburger bar! I have a very nice bar in my game room complete with wine and Coor’s Light. Why would I waste my time building something that I already have? Perhaps we will be building the bar for TC? But I’m sure DM and TC have their own bars, so why are we building bars for them? This is just another example of using our slave labor for their material gain.
    I’m sure this makes no logical sense but neither does DM when he talks without the aid of a written speech and a teleprompter. So I thought he’d enjoy it!

  31. Joe Pendleton

    I just read the whole transcript (though haven’t listened to the audio yet). Notice the continual attempt to invalidate/make Marty guilty/wrong. To make him “bad.” This ties in with one of the most significant cogs I’ve had about Scientology this past year. Scientology is a SUBJECTIVE philosophy/religion. There are thousands of pieces of knowledge and wisdom in LRH’s work that one can use to be more enlightened in life, happier and to improve conditions in life. But it is all up to EACH person to study the subject and have their OWN realizations. Each person will have their own abilities on Grade 0 (and each auditing level). Some folks WILL be able to communicate better and with more ARC and certainty than others. We all do the TRs course, and some people keep their TRs in in life and some don’t. The OT levels indicate to some people as truth and they have great wins on them, and to some, these levels don’t indicate as truth, and they do the levels and are still “sheeple” at the other end.

    And these overheated. corporate, military, “Star Wars” Sea Org/”religious order” dramatizations have very little to do with increasing one’s awareness in life. I personally have a very strong urge to survive as a member of groups – a strong third DYNAMIC – but certainly I don’t have ANY desire to be dominated and overwhelmed by any group, whether it be a religious fascist type organization like the CofS or any other type.

    This is how it ends up when you are an independant being who looks and thinks for himself. The gestapo/mind control unit comes to your door 14 or 16 strong (they NEVER come singly using ANY amount of actual ARC) with their moronic cameras (dramatising some whole track deal, all to intimade you). The huge amounts of money, the big chunks of MEST (buildings), shiny uniforms, movie stars (there are only the same THREE List A actors in Scientology mentioned by the media all the time and they’re not getting any younger) etc etc etc…….well, give it another 20 years or so…maybe 30. Davey will be in his mid 70s, Tom and John and Kirstie will also be in their 80s……the buildings will be sold slowly over the next 50 years or so to pay the bills. May take 70 years.

    Want to know something about all this? Only a very few people on this entire planet even give a fuck about the actual subject of Scientology or most of what we’re talking about here – to most folks who even check out the internet or gossip shows, Scientology is a “juicy” news item on occasion because of the three celebrities, the “interesting” in-fighting and the ton of money and real estate involved (Yes, MEST definately IS respected and feared on planet Earth – there ARE reasons why some Earth religions have been “successful”).

    So….to wrap up this rant…I’ll just say that in 100 years, when there is no more “church” of Scientology AT ALL (I think the corporate structure with the real estate will last many decades even as the membership dwindles year by year), there will be small groups of people who find value in LRH’s work and will study it and apply it to imporve life. They will audit each other and maybe these numbers will steadily grow until maybe in three or four hundred years from now, we will see the numbers we saw in the 70s and 80s. Who knows. I don’t really care any more. The important number is ONE – yeah, YOU…..and ME. We can each study and if we wish, get auditing or audit others and have our OWN wins, and help others have THEIRS.

    Corporate Scientology can try to intimdate Marty and friends as much as it wants to. I don’t think it will work. And we can be thankful that groups like the CofS can’t roll up Marty’s driveway with weapons and take him prisoner and torture and kill him as was usually the method with fascist religious groups in the past. Threats of loss of livelihood and loved ones’ ARC is now the method (along with the same buttons being pushed all the time to cave a person in – you know, the overts they are committing against friends and “help”). But each year, that will get less and less and less, until……..

  32. Do you mean Dick Zimmerman?
    If you do I don’t know that he’d be excited about breaking free when encouraged with the words:
    ‘WOW this guy is not a good painter’ and
    ‘Cookie Cutter “artist”’
    Come on. Hate the system but don’t tear up the artist please. There’s enough of that going on in the ‘Church’.
    Zimmerman is PTS. He’s an artist and as such he’s a magnet for the SP. Simple.
    …And I like his some of his paintings.

  33. Joe Pendleton

    I shouldn’t end a long post wallowing in negativity. I do admire Marty being there and standing up for what IS important about the subject of Scientology. As well as admiring the others who post on this site for continuing to “keep the faith” as was once said in the Bible (by Paul I think) and for continuing to “fight the good fight.” Those are great games. And of course, for actually USING the ARC Triangle.

  34. Sorry Doc that’s a flunk.
    It was silly but completely coherent! 😀

  35. Tony Dephillips

    I like how they put it in CAPITAL LETTERS about the build your own sandwhich/hamburger bar. Like it is a BIG DEAL. Actually it probably IS a big deal for those whose havingness has been destroyed by the cult. We know you are starving, we stripped you financially so if you want to live and eat a juicy burger you will ATTEND OR DIE OF STARVATION. That’s the only hook they have now. Sad.

  36. LRH? You mean that guy that messed up the tech and had to be bailed out by DM? That LRH?

  37. The sad thing is, there is a correct point on the training bridge to read all those basic books and listen to all those tapes.

    It’s called the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course. Class VI.

    LRH put it there at that point, because that’s where it makes sense, after regular Academy training. DM jabbers on about making perfect auditors before they start to train to be auditors. Well, I don;t see “perfect auditor” as the result of any training on Ron’s Bridge. I see “expert auditor”, I see “flubless auditor”. I do not see “perfect auditor”.

    Which reminds me, quite often here the idea comes up that DM will commit some massive foot bullet to make those inside wake up and leave in droves. I think he’s already shot that bullet – it’s this Basics crap, if THIS didn’t do it then nothing will – and I don’t see people leaving en-masse due to it. My conclusion – the last possible chance for the Church to redeem itself and get back on track has come and gone. It didn’t bite, show’s over, church is dead.

    DMs little scheme will fall apart and crumble, people will drift away and be left confused and wondering “WTF happened?” Many will find a safe place to do Doubt after the fact, more will just stay confused until we find who and where they are. And it looks like this process is starting – every day I see new nicknames I haven’t seen before. These people know the lingo and certainly appear to be Scientologists who are staying under the radar for now.

    To all these new folks (fondly referred to as “lurkers” 🙂 ), I’d like to extend a big Hi! and a Welcome! Hang around as much as you like, post when you feel it’s right to do so. Folks here have their TR0 in, we don’t do pressure.

    I always post as splog (it’s an in-joke that makes my friends laugh), my real name is Alan.

  38. Hearing Doven’s confused and trembling voice reminded me of beaten down, broken and abused child. It prompted a strong sense of pity and sympathy within me.

    That said, “Having nothing but cowed, ill associates has its advantages.”

    Well Marty, that pretty well sums up the operating basis of the puny sociopath, doesn’t it. That and FundRaping(tm) for all of his assorted Tech killing schemes.

    Yeah. The church is dead and continuously dramatized by the remaining few deadheads who have taken on the characteristics of pall bearers at their own funeral. Ugh…………

  39. Howard Roark

    good comment penn.

  40. Are all of the basic books and tapes now a pre-req to academy training?

  41. Legendary

  42. Enough is the perfect website for references on training. I also highly recommend it. Ron never meant for training to be theory only. He was actually trying to help people, which means doing something, not thinking about things. On the tone scale action is at 20.0, thinking is way down at minus 3.0

  43. martyrathbun09

    Yes. However, I heard recently that some public was told by some org idiot that COB had removed that “arbitrary”. They alleged just discovered what I’ve been saying since the start of this bizarre episode – how in the hell do the “basics” books come BEFORE the academy, when the BASIC BOOKS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ON THE ACADEMY LEVELS.

  44. That poor kid on the phone, he’s too young and too naive to know what’s really going on. You can hear it in his voice. He’s too easily deceived, too easily misled, too easily overwhelmed into agreement by pure force of personality. The current training lineup is so long, so hard, so arduous, practically nobody will ever finish again, and that WAS the INTENTION! I was there at FLAG as an outer org trainee when the Gold Age of Tech came out in May 1996 and I said, “Fuck it man, I ‘ve been here long enough at way too much of a personal cost on every dynamic!” I felt betrayed. You’r e a HERO Marty for putting all this together on one web site. Keep up the good work. Bin Laden just went down. Let’s see who else is going down!

  45. Michael Doven is actually one of those “really nice people” you sometimes meet. I’m not trying to make a joke. A Class IV auditor too, trained in the late 80’s, I believe, before the tech got really messed up.

    He is highly intelligent – again, no joke, but (sorry, Michael) has no balls. He always used public relations to try to keep things smooth. That was/is his way. (You see what he said about making an appointment to come see you).

    He does have the intelligence to recognize the numerous wrong things going in the COS, and I am very sure he sees many of them. But his RUIN (yes, you know this is ruining your life, Michael) is that he CANNOT ACTUALLY STAND UP TO ANYBODY of authority, and this haunts him.

    He thinks of himself as having great integrity, and in relation to COS he “tries” very hard to somehow make it all fit in. I am sure he rationalizes having become the “first GAT dude” as: “well, all I am doing is listening, learning LRH, that is a good thing”. He firmly believes this (or at least, he firmly tells himself this and tries hard not to think too much about the details). And he is proud of being a “good example”.

    But, I have been reading between the lines about him, and he wishes, oh, he really wishes that somebody with cajones would come along and stand up to the things going on in the COS. In fact, that is the only reason he “decided himself” to “come talk to you, Marty”. He KNOWS that you, Marty, have the capability of fighting the good fight ON THE INSIDE, and he is just angry because you “left everybody inside” to fight the uphill battle. A battle he would secretly vote for ANYBODY strong enough to fight, and once the battle looked like a SURE win, he would come out openly and support them. But only then.

    OSA, Michael is right at the edge of being an independent. Don’t let that “first GAT dude” achievement fool you. Oh, he will be a “yes man” for as long as he can convince himself he is connected with LRH. But Michael will WILLINGLY back a real fighter who would fix the things he KNOWS are so wrong with “his” church. He does try not to think about all this and tries to be a “loyal member”, but often he dreams of a “savior” who will come and rescue them all.

  46. GetTheConcept

    “So you had a sense of helping, alright? So at what point did you decide “Okay, now let’s just fucking destroy them all, and destroy everything that I’ve just worked for ….’ ”

    I’d like to point out that that question is a great example of Reverse Scientology in itself. A non-standard question based on a complete evaluation. I could see much harm caused by that question on someone who didn’t know any better than to introvert and try to answer that question. And he may have thought that he was trying to help you.

    Would have loved to hear you call him out on that, though I understand that being in that situation, it wouldn’t have been easy to think of it just then.

    I wonder if since that time he knows better now that he’s studied all that theory.

  47. Watching Eyes

    how in the hell do the “basics” books come BEFORE the academy, when the BASIC BOOKS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ON THE ACADEMY LEVELS.

    It’s a good way to overwhelm a student and make sure he doesn’t make it onto the Academy Levels, isn’t it? EP = NO auditors made.

  48. TroubleShooter

    Wow, that’s good news if it’s true! I haven’t heard that arbitrary that barred the road to auditor training had been lifted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You and every auditor trainee, supe, CS, Tech Sec and saavy exec were saying the same thing some openly, some under their breaths. Some shrugged and complied and some communicated disagreements and paid the price in varying degrees depending on their assertiveness, some left when their contracts were up. The game changed and it did not go unnoticed by the staff generally speaking in my experience. I know very many who were staff before the Basics came along and knocked everyones hats off and smothered the orgs purpose, stats and solvencies who are now no longer staff.

    As an aside, I’ve met a few “org idiots” I think was the term I read above which might not have been intended to be rude but it came across that way a bit. More of what I knew were dedicated staffers, lifetimers to the cause who didn’t want to or couldn’t join the SO. People who wanted families but also wanted to pursue a duty and passion. Many had higher educations. Don’t think for a minute that the staff warriors were/are oblivious to the outpoints of management. It wasn’t “management” because that implies that there is managing going on. I knew people who wanted to sell and deliver materials and service to the public and get in public to sell and deliver to. They wanted to deliver the BRIDGE NOT THE BARRACADE!

    Until the dam breaks and indisputable crimes of DeMon’s spill out over the org board and headlines I’m using the good ol one on one comm cycle to inspire greatness in those I know to look and act on what they see. The various blogs, websites and articles provide data and gradients to make it safe for them to reach for their own truths.

    But I’m sure as hell looking forward to May rolling out and seeing how much closer we get to the dam breaking…

  49. GetTheConcept

    My opinion: There’s nothing wrong with studying all those lectures consecutively as long as you: 1) Duplicate and understand the data very well, including by working out for yourself how to apply it, and then applying it, and 2) You don’t mistake the studying of the books and lectures a substitute for actual Academy training, or think you are training by studying them because you aren’t.

    The chronological study of the books and lectures has its own purpose and Academy training has its purpose. Substituting book and lecture courses for auditor training in a Div 4 Academy is the thing that is squirrel in this case. The church shouldn’t be putting book and lecture courses in Div 4 and calling it Academy training. This is a misrepresentation.

  50. Curious Wog

    Him being the first doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the only one, it could just be an honorary title, like Clear #1.

    I like the part about “Consultants to locate and remove any barriers on your bridge progress.” In other words, salesmen to shake you down!

  51. It’s utterly amazing to compare and contrast Marty’s in-valence sanity to Doven’s out-of-valence blabbery.

    Why are thetans (myself incuded, for twenty years), so fucking tractable?

    Doven is not in posession of himself.

  52. TroubleShooter

    ” I was there at FLAG as an outer org trainee when the Gold Age of Tech came out in May 1996 and I said, “Fuck it man, I ‘ve been here long enough at way too much of a personal cost on every dynamic!” I felt betrayed.”

    You were.

    We all were.

    I agree with you on the hero thing.

  53. Man, brings back memories. always something new being added before someone who wants to audit can audit. By the time they get through it all(complete with arbitraries inserted) oops things have changed again, more “breakthroughs” and more pre-reqs! Nothing “Golden Age” here…. More like the Dark Age of Endless Academia.

  54. Sam, You make a very good point. I looked up the art and some of it is good. The portrait of John Travolta/Kelly Preston and others to me (personal opinion) looked like one of the JC Penney or SEARS Photo portraits. Again, this is my personal opinion.

  55. I was gonna post the same thing. She really was/is a sweet person. I would imagine that being married to David helped protect her some and that being a CS keeps her somewhat out of the fray. However, she can hardly “not know” the tech altering and degrading.

  56. Scott Campbell

    Righty-O Marty.

    I always find that the theory truly goes in when the practical is applied. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of significance. Oh sure, perhaps some random pearl of wisdom or bit of data will stick with you or help you cog – but your never gonna “get” the data from just studying a book like you would by doing the Academy Levels.

  57. UnDisturbed

    We just don’t like him because he is not part of ‘our team’. He is one of ‘them’. He is a Kool-Aid drinker. We are the independents. We are the cool guys. DM and the rest are the nerds.

    It’s the same game they play on us. We are the squirrels. We are the SPs. They are the Standard Tech folks who are to be trusted. Them against us. Us against them. How old is that game?

    I believe in getting trained and audited. Flourish and Prosper. Let the other side expend all their energy playing this child’s game of they are better than us. But if it really makes you feel better saying what a lousy guy he is, go at it!

    Tom Price

  58. GTC,

    This is why you do the Saint Hill Special Briefing!

    The study of Scientology and the practice of Scientology are *interrelated*.

    Why do you think it is called an *Applied Philosophy*?

    This endless study of theory is for the birds!

    I don’t care if it is in chronological order.

    It’s still wrong!

    With no or little practical application.

    Never mind absolutely no actual practice!

    All it will do is produce a bunch of glib idiots who do nothing but *philosophize* about the subject.

    And do right off the freaking wall *squirrelly* shit like try to audit people over the phone as in the *case* above.

    Obviously the *moron* responsible never read the HCOB “Illegal Auditing”

    Maybe the real name for GAK should be GAG which stands for the Golden Age of Glibness.

  59. And the senior C/S at AOLA is Ms. Maggie Butterworth! And there is lots of yellow on the promo! Someone had their thinking cap on because I want pancakes!

  60. Just because it seems appropriate here: duh leder has done yet another misdirection: training has now become study.


    Bruce Pratt

  61. Luis Agostini


    It took me one major disagreement with the 1982 Scientology to begin the awakening from my severe disconnection to my own viewpoints and to my own knowingness that I did not belong there.

    In my view, as long as one does not gather the guts to disagree and refuses to engage in an activity that one perceives is wrong one will stay being a sheep and will not start waking up. Wanting the security, being part of a group brings, is to me, quite a strong impulse in us humans.

    For, in my view, it is terrifying to confront saying no to a group which paints itself as being all knowing, all correct, all truth, and all exceptional and instill the idea that any thought or action in disagreement is a sign of flawed inferiority.

    And so, I understand Michael Doven’s dilemma and his comm lags, mumblings and lack of confidence, his attachment to the only source of security/stability he has in his life (the Church), and his desperateness in trying to find a stable datum that would make Marty wrong (HIS APATHY ATTACK) and thus quiet down the biggest threat to the stable datums he so desperately needs to hold on to.

    Labeling him in a negative, insulting manner, is very often to me, an attempt to place oneself in a superior position by assigning inferiority in another.




    ‘The Regular Parishioner’ – Cheap stale mashed bun, crappy fatty ground cow ankle beef, packets of mayo, relish, ketchup squirt bottle, roll of paper towels nearby. No Charge. Drinks extra.

    ‘The Celebrity’ – Exquisite hand rolled prime semolina wheat bun, Prime Kobe hand-massaged beef from high-toned cows who’ve slept on velvet cushions and moo in several different languages, sliced heirloom tomato, leaves from three different types of lettuces, fresh made-from-scratch mayo whipped up by a special saucier flown in from Tuscany, Belgian monk-woven 800 thread count napkins, French truffles, complimentary Mimosas, a personal attendant to help you make your sandwich, a valet standing by in case you spill something on your shirt, and a framed and autographed PR photo of a beaming David Miscavige with his arm around the obviously impressed Pope.

    ‘The Donor’ – A somewhat half-way acceptable cheeseburger, what you might expect to get at a beach tourist spot if you were stuck there and were real hungry. Special ‘Celebrity’ upgrade price: $5,000. With drinks: $5,500.

    ‘The Staff’ – Wonder bread piled with beans and rice and salt and pepper and hot sauce, with side of ‘Celebrity’ plate scrapings. Mmmmmm.
    Price: One billion consecutive years of your lives.

    ‘The COB’ – 12 ounces of pampered Holy Kobe veal, blown on, talked to and massaged for 12 hours a day their entire lives, cooked medium slanted towards an iota of rare, no bun, with a pile of Pope-blessed arugula, the last of an extinct strain of Tibetan tomato, sliced thin, with a Guinness-size tumbler of single-malt Scotch. COB ONLY. Free drink refills.

    ‘COB UPGRADE’ – Available to everyone. Eligibility: sec-checked within the last month, no disagreements with COB. Upgrade Price: $50,000.

    ‘TABLE STATUS’ – The eight positions circling COB’s table are up for auction at any given time. There are no reservations at this event to sit with the COB based on any past donor status, as has been the practice. If you wish to sit with COB at this particular event, when you arrive please fill out the form: COB Seating Auction Form and hand it to the Maitre de’ who will place you in a holding room until all guests have arrived and the auction winners are determined. You will then be escorted and introduced to COB and are required to adhere to the following protocol:

    1. Always look COB in the eyes with confidence
    2. Always be above 4.0 on the Tone Scale
    3. Always laugh at COB’s jokes and humor or whenever he laughs
    4. Always listen intently to what COB is saying
    5. Always increase your R with COB by agreeing with him.
    6. Always pick up COB’s napkin if he drops it and then quickly arrange a new one for him (just in case his valet misses it)
    7. Always agree profusely if COB says anything derogatory about anything
    8. Always be ready to dive in front of or on top of COB if you ever hear what sounds like gunshots or expolosions , or the codeword “GUN!” being yelled.
    9. Always respond positively if COB suggests you increase your donation status
    10. If COB spits his food out because he obviously doesn’t like it, immediately spit your food out too and look over at COB to see if you need to emphasize with gagging, spitting and faux vomiting sounds and then take the appropriate actions, such as complaining loudly, calling the cook over to the table, or offering to take everyone out to the most expensive restaurant in town, with COB as special guest to celebrate a new, spontaneously created higher donor status levels, excitingly named such as:


    NO SUBSTITUTIONS (Except for COB himself)

    EATING: Eat as quickly as you can so you are done before COB, as there is limited time before the official beginning of the event and also the COB does eat rather quickly and does not like to be the last one eating, ever, ever, ever.

  63. scilonschools


    MARTY: I’m doing that right now, man.”

    I think i’d go with Marty on that one!

  64. Tom, It goes well beyond “we don’t like him (Dovan) because he is on the other team” and “DM and the rest are the nerds” or some such silliness. DM will stop at nothing to suppress and prevent the delivery of Scientology in the field. His alleged threats to stomp it out or destroy Marty “by any means necessary” is a scary threat that should be treated seriously, and probably reported to law enforcement, IMHO.

    Dovan being part of one of several dispatched goon squads sent to Corpus Christy to intimidate Marty, stalk Marty’s parishioners, etc. shows just how sick and twisted these people are.

    Documenting the self-destruction of the CoS/KoS is a good defensive strategy, even if not Marty’s main motivation. If anything were to mysteriously happen to Marty, I think the FBI would have some pretty good leads on folks to talk to.

    The public service that this blog represents is huge; It wakes people up, and encourages them to begin to as-is (cause to vanish) the theta trap that they have enmeshed themselves in. It de-PTSs the participants by putting them at cause over what has become an SP group and it helps form a new group that might rise from the ashes to help realize LRH’s dreams for what Scientology could be when applied to people for their benefit.

    Exposing the madness is not the “same old game”; The disclosures and discourse are vital if we are to get trained and audited and flourish and prosper. Its a vital part of getting the show on the road.


  65. GetTheConcept

    I’ll take that as your opinion, which I agree with in part. However, all the data in Scientology can be applied in life, not just auditing. You can study all the data from the 1950s, some of which isn’t even on the BC, and apply it in life, even if you don’t use it to audit. If you listen to the PDCs, for example, even though the lectures are centered around auditing techniques, and there is a lot you can use in life. Same with the axioms, my God, they are so applicable to everyday existence, even if you never audit a single process. I use LRH data from books and lectures that I did not do drills on, every day of my life.

    So the part I agree with you on is the fact that you HAVE to apply it. When you study it you have to duplicate it very well and observe how it works in life and work out how you can apply it, and then apply it. Just studying it with little or no application is, as you say, for the birds.

    But I disagree with the part where you seem to be implying (correct me if I’m wrong) that it is completely useless to do a chronological study of the books and lectures from the 1950s. You are correct, in my opinion, only if when studying, you don’t work out how to apply it and then apply it. But you seem to be implying, if I’m understanding you correctly, that it is impossible to apply data that is not studied on a course that has drills and practical on it.

    I’m doing an ongoing study of these myself and I am not satisfied until I can work out how to apply them. But I do not confuse that with auditor training, which I have done as well. And in the church currently, they are doing pure theory study in the Academy, which I’m sure you agree is squirrel because the Academy is there to make auditors.

    The guy who just studies theory glibly and philosophizes about it and then tries to audit over the phone and has zero auditor discipline is confusing theory study with auditor training.

  66. Penn
    That one wasn’t my favorite either.

  67. Wow. That’s quite a stat. ONE completion from DM’s golden age of hell. If that doesn’t tell the story, I dono what could. More proof that there are far too many sheeple buying his bullshit.

  68. Yes, I agree. Acceleration! Acceleration? LOL

  69. Wayne Oppelaar

    Soooo….You make it to the epitome of the bridge – and you end up sounding like David Miscavige?
    ‘Sounds like a rip off to me…

    Closing Thought:
    What a brilliant bunch of imbeciles COB has in his clutche$.

    Wayne Oppelaar
    Haarlem, NL.

  70. Firebreathing Frog

    Great post.

    On Michael Doven CV, we can read:
    “Education: Administrative Tools and Professional Certifications include:
    Volume 0, Data Series Evaluator, Ethics Specialist, Volunteer Minister, Exec Status, ACCs, etc., etc.”
    Taken from his website at:

    To Michael Doven:
    I think you should review your data series.
    You talking a lot about “viewpoints” or “opinion” in your comm to Marty.
    From Data Series 1:
    “A FACT is something that can be proven to exist by visible evidence.
    An OPINION is something which may or may not be based on any facts.
    Yet a sloppy mind sees no difference between a FACT and somebody’s opinion.
    In courts a psychiatrist (who is an AUTHORITY) says ‘Joe Doakes is crazy.’ Joe Doakes is promptly put away for ten years, tortured or killed.”
    – LRH. HCOPL 26 April 1970R “The Anatomy of Thought”

    Did anyone told you “Marty is crazy”?

    You have seen him auditing Tom Cruise to very good result, so how can you explain all the lies on Marty?
    If he is such fkecur, why was he appointed as Tom Cruise auditor in the first place?

    Please, peruse Marty’s blog with a data series viewpoint and look only at the FACTS, not the opinions.
    Let us see if you can still confront the truth.

    Last question for Michael Doven:
    With all the training and auditing you got, and all the knowledge you gain studying LRH, do you think you will meet LRH in the future?

    If you believe that this may happen, What will you tell LRH?
    That you didn’t know?
    That you could not see?
    That no one told you?

    And whatever answer you will give LRH, do you really think he will believe you?

    Let me have your comment on this.
    Looking forward to reading you.

  71. Maybe so, Luis, But Doven’s still stuck in, and you are all still out.

    That IS a superior position; one that takes guts, integrity and sacrifice to make. He hasn’t made that cut, yet.

  72. Marty:

    Will these people ever just leave you alone and let you to live you life in peace retired from the daily troubles corporate Scientology brings to itself and other people?

    When are these “cultists” from the church going to get they have been understood, duplicated and acknowledged and that their religous practices are their own, not necessarily everyone else’s and people DON’T HAVE to tolerate ESPECIALLY in Texas, troublemakers getting in one’s face trying to force their wrong beliefs on people.

    I wish they could just vanish and leave you and Mosey and your cute little fat dog in peace. Nobody in the world except the “Midget Miss Cabbage” understands what these corporate sent religious loons are up to.

  73. Hallelujah

    RJ —

    Now we’re talking. Do the Briefing Course … Bless it, I really tried!

    Believe it was 1995-1996. 1 1/2 years on the BC and made it through the last level with tapes, K? L? M?

    I was SOOOO close to being in the auditing chair I could actually feel it and I was ready to apply what I had learned. I had been an auditor previous to 1982 — M-1, HSDC, NED, Prov. Class IV — so I knew what was at the end of the auditor training. I was even thinking in terms of lining up PCs.

    But no, there was no provision with GAT to complete the BC cycle. In fact, I was given a blanket (backwards) TIP (Technical Individual Program), just as every other student was given.

    Only, my TIP didn’t FN. That wasn’t even checked for. I was ready to audit and the runway had been considerably lengthened.

    So, I went off the BC and I distinctly remember doing The Hubbard Elementary Data Series Evaluator’s Course after finishing Study Certainty.

    However, I never picked up and finished the BC. H

  74. martyrathbun09

    Fat? Ok, soon I’m putting up Chiquita’s response to Jason who started this obese line.

  75. martyrathbun09

    Well put, “hasn’t made the cut yet.” This may sound flip to some, but it is as close to the reality of matters as I’ve heard expressed lately.

  76. martyrathbun09

    He is no better than a Diamond mine administrator doing the bidding of greedy racists in South African cirica 1980’s. IMHO

  77. martyrathbun09

    You are right from your viewpoint. From mine it is quite different. Day in and day out for going on two years now I am dealing with people who are being actively stalked and harmed on several dynamics by this institution that the likes of Doven arrogantly spend thousands to perpetrate. The fellow flew – on Scientology Parishioner’s dime – half way across the country with 19 others in an attempt to capture an escaped slave. By all means go about your training and audited in peace. But, don’t diss others who are confronting and taking on a tangible evil in society.
    “A” in your scenario most definitey does not equal the “A” you posit. When you have sixteen people in four cars block the roadway on you at 6 a.m. then let’s talk this over from another viewpoint. Peace.

  78. martyrathbun09

    LRH worked over decades to create the line up for training, so that it included auditing in the chair very early on. Miscavige has cancelled it. Simple.

  79. That is the result of a very confidential and proprietary COB-taught technique that only certain auditors qualify to learn, as eligibility is quite tough. The IDEAL PROCESS OF LOOK AND BLOW involves the following:

    1. Staring at a chunk of Ideal chunk of cement for one hour per day before Ideal Bedtime.
    2. Learning how to smell Black PR and Out-Ethics by increasing your Ideal Olfactory Sensitivity. If they smell, then you must take appropriate Ideal Ethics and Sec Check actions in order to hone your Ideal Perceptions and increase your Ideal Confidence.
    3. Meter-Bypass Drill: without a meter, by staring intently at a PC’s head, you can start to see the molecules inside vibrating in a minutely disharmonious manner. You have to validate your own Ideal Knowingness or else the ability diminishes.
    4. Ideal Hitting: hit with Ideal Force, this often jars loose any hidden debris in their universe that otherwise would remain submerged. After the Ideal Strike, demand something, anything; if they come up with something, then you were correct and should take note of that.
    5. Mass-Clearing by Looking: this drill consists of looking, looking, looking, willing, willing, willing, looking harder, willing harder, postulating TR-8 style, postulating TR-9 style, willing, commanding, looking, willing, looking, running, running, running, donating more and more and more, chanting anything at the wall over and over, looking and looking some more.

    Soon, Look & Blow (The Ideal Process) will become THE prominent practice by Ideal Church members. You will start seeing more and more Ideal Scientologists standing on hills, mountain tops, skyscrapers, telephone poles and swooping by on hang-gliders, looking, gazing, staring, eye-balling, willing entire cities to blow every chunk of charge in their universe until they are, each and every one, Ideal Clears.

    Ideal Video Cameras, especially mounted on one’s head provide more consistent Ideal Looking and have been found to significantly increase the power of this process, as more Ideal Looking can be achieved by more Ideal Lookers, thus more looking-power, blowing of charge, Ideal TA (prominently noticeable even without a meter). Ideal Behavioral Changes will bring about a new Ideal Renaissance of an Ideal Civilization and Planet, putting us all at Square One, poised for the next step, this one much tougher, an accelerated rocket-ride to Ideal Native State.

    Upon successful completion of this Ideal Pilot, all other techniques and processes will no longer be Ideal and will be obsolete. With LRH’s main lesson achieved, ‘Teaching How To Look’, it’ll be game over, planet won, whereupon Dave and Tom will finally be able to take their often discussed, well-deserved and earned Ideal Vacation, that is, right after the planet-wide Ideal Celebration for the achievement of an Ideal Planet, before embarking on the next step of their Ideal Program, IDEAL NATIVE STATE ATTAINMENT AT ALL COSTS, thus finally, after trillions upon trillions of millennia of floundering around in the chaos of dangerously misunderstood labrinths, we will all be able to fly free, unencumbered by the wretched, undisciplined dark forces of existence.

  80. You learn fast Sam,
    Pass on your robot speak!

  81. Their burger menu looks interesting and even honest. Bit pricey, though, if you want their top shelf burger. I’d like to try that ‘Celebrity’ burger.

  82. I think it’s safe to say that Grade 0 is out on all Churchies. Their most senior rep walks out of tv interviews, all regges that have called or written me in the past couple of years broke their comm cycle, whether it was on the subject of Davey, expansion, squirreling, amount of Cl XII’s, their own overts, prices, etc. The only comm the Church seems capable of is printed lies, to A/V redirected questions and overwhelm by a flog of regges preying on lonely victims.

  83. My perception of this is that the whole GAT, GAK line-up is driven by DM’s “knowledge” that 1) Nobody on the planet is capable of auditing (except possibly Him). Anyone actually daring to sit PCs down and audit them would definitely fuck it up as everyone is so incompetent, and 2) Scientology doesn’t work anyway. It seems to me the entire CofM network has been rebuilt in His image with those 2 certainties underpinning the whole show. (Reminder to DM: Scientology works when applied correctly).

  84. Hallelujah

    I’ll field this one … leave Chiquita alone. No need to eval or inval as she’s wearing her hat.

    “I wish they could just vanish and leave you and Mosey and your cute little dog in peace.” H

  85. martyrathbun09

    Thanks H, Chiqs is wagging her tail.

  86. Maybe DM just wanted to show how he could SPIKE a graph up anytime he wants, ’cause he’s so powerful and able, close to Superman. Like the STARTS stat from making everyone enroll on his new Basic Course, BAM! graph shoots straight up and vertical, just ’cause he WILLED everyone onto the course.

    Booksales graph: BOOM! straight up and vertical. “See? See how it’s done?!”

    Auditing hours: KAPOW! Everyone back in the chair on Objectives!

    Square miles of carpet: BAVOOOOOOM! Lay that stuff out!

    Flag Arrivals: SWOOOOP! take the org’s PCs and route ’em to Flag for their grades.


    When recently asked what was the secret formula for all his success, COB responded, “KILO-TONS PER MICROSECOND OF OTHERS LISTENING TO ME.”

  87. UnDisturbed

    Marty, thanks for posting my post, and thank you for your reply.
    Peace too,

  88. Nice graph though, zero at the bottom, one at the top, that’s a no-nonsense straight up and vertical line.

  89. What is most gross about this, is that “Golden Age of Tech” (Not during Hubbard’s time, during DM’s time, cleaning up Hubbard’s overt products) was how many years ago did this hit the world? And only one person after all of these years has finished the training? And they are raving about it. I mean, it isn’t even a with hold! And then they send out promo about it that makes people think of House of Pancakes. This brings us into the the : Golden age of Comedy.

  90. Tony Dephillips

    I like the way the promo piece says to get to OT NOW!! Like they have actually created some and you are the only sap who hasn’t made it.
    If this guy is their ideal scene, I will remain an abberee.

  91. Tony Dephillips

    She makes some damn good pancakes too.

  92. That “painting,” like his other portraits, are painted photographs. This is a common trick used by many painting mills overseas that promote that they can provide you with a realistic portrait of yourself, a dead loved one or a pet, at a ridiculously low cost.

    Look at the difference in painting skill demonstrated in Travolta’s face and compare that to his execution in Travolta’s sleeve on his bent, left arm. Step back an look at the proportions – the relationship between sizes in heads and bodies – it’s off. This is because the photographic images of John and Kelly’s hands and faces have been applied to the canvas, and painted around and over, and not very well.

    Now read the “Procedures” part of his website with this in mind, and he obliquely tells you he does this without coming right out and saying it in a way that most people will immediately get.

    My point here is not to tear down this artist’s skill – rather it’s to say that this artist is being a little dishonest – he’s “cheating” in the eyes of most people, especially those of us who can do this without using this method. But through careful wording on his site (and I suspect, in speaking personally with people), he skates around the fact that his work is not what most people assume it is when they see it.

    There’s nothing wrong with using a photograph or any other medium in a piece of art, but this fellow is being cagey about it and selling one thing (which would be the result of having the correct tech of portrait painting and the skill to use it) and delivering another. Because people are led to believe it’s the former, it makes what he does deliver an inferior, cheap substitute, and to any self-respecting practitioner of the art of painting (especially of portraits), this IS an inferior and dishonest product. Sound familiar?

  93. Such a nonsense !
    I can remember very well, each time Lrh put out some new rundowns and tech the public was just pouring into the Org and some weeks afterwards thousands of completions were produced with raving results.
    More new Tech DM is inventing more public is pouring out of the Org and to have at least one completion of his nonsense it takes him years !!!!!!!!!!!
    Most orgs are heavily onto call-ins to get the blows on the basics back onto it !

  94. freespirit

    “We want to attract you to the event by showing you someone who finally finished listened to the altered and edited lectures.”

    ……and share with you his altered and edited “cognitions”.

    Four years? In FULL TIME Study????

    Oh the sheer pain of it……..

    BTW OTDT, your satirical tongue continues to get sharper and sharper.

  95. I can understand you very well.
    I started the basics, but hated it. I reread dmsmh for the 3-4 x and was originating to the sup that there are lots of conflicting data to modern dianetics and still wasn’t able to audit book one as I couldn’t get those r3r commands out of my head and thinking it would be more effective and so what happened was a mess !

    Modern Dianetics is straight forward and clear cut and very easy to understand and apply, why should try out all this experimental stuff ?

    Nobody asks from a windows user to work with dos programms to better understand windows. You just would give him lots of losses !
    After I did S.O.S I blew the basics as I wasn’t aloud to study at the speed and the way I wanted. As soon I started the course they were pushing me to complete it and I felt like an idiot when I was flunked on my answers to the sometimes very silly questions I ‘d to answer.When I was protesting the flunks the sup told ” Yes your answer is also correct, but you have to answer exactly the way it’s written in the book on this page and that page and you can’t include what is later Scientology . So I just did that, writing down the words of the book, finished the course and never went back. This is really for idiots !!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  96. Tom, I personally had a first hand experience with Michael Doven. Marty is absolutely right about Doven being DM’s spy. Doven takes order directly from his master (David Miscavige). Only DM would give a fake title “World renowned artist” to those who obey him. Doven is a photographer, not even a good one, but DM has Doven on all his celebs lines taking some nude pictures of them which DM can use later if any of the celebs turn against DM.
    Doven is a nasty man.

  97. Chiqs isn’t fat she’s ‘sturdy’ 😀

  98. Lol!

  99. I guess they were going to pull DM from behind a curtain?

  100. Good point, CW.

    However the being the first completion of GAK, perhaps you would call him Gakker #1? It really means no achievement on the training or auditing side of the grade chart! Not a classed auditor nor advanced state on the Bridge, having spent years on this, per the LRH grade chart. What is the new awareness level or ability gained?

    On one of his web sites MD takes credit for being certified in:
    Volume 0, Data Series Evaluator, Ethics Specialist, Volunteer Minister, Exec Status, ACCs, etc. Yet, the conversation with Marty sure does not show applications such as Logic which the Data Series teaches. All this “hatting” did not make him a stable terminal as shown by his comm lags and ahs and ohs.

    That he’s the number one DM Gakker just shows it and speaks for itself.

  101. Too funny!

  102. I snorted Diet Coke out my nose with that comment. Ouch!

  103. Dick Zimmerman was the Keith Richards of Scientology. A mere minstrel.
    There for the good times. Did a killer photo of Lisa Marie that landed on the cover of People magazine. If DM dropped dead tomorrow I think he would be willing to take a picture of the body. I wouldn’t label him an enemy or useless. He’s just cruising. Great fun to be around . Escaped ethics continually with charisma. I don’t think he has done anyone any harm. Rather a plus point in the Scientology arena.

  104. As I read this transcript, it adds evidence to the pile that makes it clear beyond a doubt what’s going on, an where this is headed.

    Let’s use history as an example of perception and predictability: Jesus Christ didn’t walk around in red velvet capes holding a 24 kt. gold jewel-encrusted scepter. OK? In fact, he washed his friend’s feet as a metaphor for humility. He defied matter and space/time, putting the spirit in the proper priority insofar as form (physical word) serving function.

    I can tell the difference between people who practice Christianity (by genuinely working toward achieving its virtues) and those who only practice wearing pastel hats on Sunday. It’s clear as day.

    I know a woman who practices being fair in her speech, kindness, community service to all dynamics, and distinguishing between her “sins” (more mortal aspects of human nature) while improving the immortal virtues …and you know, she does have a halo a la religious paintings. Why? Because that’s the glow of spirit, of soul, of theta. I like hats but that glow sure beats paper flowers any day 😉 She never pushes the fact that she is Christian. She lives it, and I notice her living it, really trying. One could even audit her with no conflict! Conversely, there are rosary-whipping “Christians” who don’t practice or aspire to a virtue but gobble up the Sunday pancakes and status while tooting razzleblowers that they are Christians. No ha-glow.

    In the transcript speech above, the self-appointed “Pope” is using the word Scientology, and makes references to walking people through rooms, and touts his master plan is building “bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger…”:

    Why the country? Because you can build it bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. And economic wise for people to get, to live around that area, etc….

    herein squats the toad:
    economic wise for people to get, to live around that area, etc

    Isn’t that just like a Papal State? The era when the Vatican set itself up as a government, forcing people under its rule? In fact, the activities for centuries in which the Vatican engaged were such a blatant departure from the teachings of Jesus Christ, one has to wonder….what were people thinking? Well, many were manipulated and oppressed, their power of choice removed.

    An interesting and extremely important thing about “Popes” Gone Bad. In the Middle ages, the Church was no longer “holy” IMHO. When did it stop being holy? When the position of Pope was being sold by the Church.
    Repeating: When the position of Pope was being sold by the Church.

    In the Middle Ages, a person’s background, knowledge, spiritual aspirations, none of it, mattered — as long as the money was up front. They were made Pope. As long as there was money up front, sins were “forgiven” and privileges and status were given. And positions were bought. And the government was infiltrated, and then bypassed. And the Vatican became the government.

    The Vatican became corrupt. Not that long ago, it launched brigades of zealots and mercenaries who rode around the countryside terrorizing, torturing, harassing, slandering people. It hijacked the name of a person (Jesus, and God) who professed people were all spiritual in nature, and under the symbol of a cross, practiced the exact opposite of its purported teachings. It dragged people in for torture and inquisitions, into pillared opulent buildings before supercilious arrogant men pretending to be priests, and in corridors of smoke and incense, with the teachings of a apirit turned into hocus pocus superstition. It commanded citizens to give up artwork and gold and contribute it all to the Vatican…for their salvation.

    In my opinion, the Vatican never got its mojo back, and perhaps never had mojo since its first departure from what it was pretending to be. I am not dissing Christianity, I am dissing its abuse. I am saying, I can see the difference between someone who practices it, and others who assert they are Christians. And I can see here “religion” is being pretended for the goal of political conquest of human beings.

    The motivating intention can be deciphered. despite this gibberish that doesn’t clearly give any answer. The endeavor is acquisition of Real Estate … the plan is right there: bigger bigger bigger real estate out in the country, so economic communities can be built around it.

    The Vatican’s endeavor was to become financially so powerful it could bribe or make its own law with no accountability to anyone — it justified all manner of action by claiming it was the icon of “god” — when in fact, engaging in obvious actions that violated that “god’s” core teachings.

    Even today, after it got penalized and the world finally woke up and depowered its “influence” the Vatican is not the most potent ambassador of Christianity. Had the Vatican indeed been practicing its purported religion all these centuries, its products would be very very different.

    I can say the same, with absolute certainty, about Scientology.

    Scientology practices, as developed by L Ron Hubbard, were developed for and are available to all citizens o Earth! ENJOY!! Don’t accept substitutes!

  105. Big H,

    If I was you’re SSO or DPE I would have TIPPED you to complete the Briefing Course after any hatting cycles.

    If I was TIPPING you as a public which is different from staff the BC would have been the first course you completed before going on to any other training.

    To do otherwise is simply suppressive since it leaves the Staff Member or Public person with *incomplete cycles*.

    And we both know suppressives can’t seem to complete cycles of action themselves or allow others to complete them.

    Now about the wall of significance and study of the alphabet called the “Briefing Course” these days.

    When I did the BC back in the early ’80’s you spent half of your time studying and the other half *auditing* while on course.

    Every day!

    Just like they did it back in Saint Hill.

    So the course was balanced back then.

    Then in the early ’90’s someone came up with the “bright idea” of putting all the auditing recs on the last two checksheets which basically destroyed the course in my opinion.

  106. GTC

    Yes it’s nice to do a chronological study of the tech but this should be done in your own time since the purpose of the Academy is supposed to be:


    Saint Hill is supposed to make you an expert AUDITOR that now understands why these processes and actions work.

    Class VIII is supposed align all this data that you’ve learned in the Academy and the BC so that you can apply it STANDARDLY.

    All this other fun stuff that has nothing to do with the actual practice of Scientology should be taught in a Specialist Course room of some kind or in Div VI.

    Have you read the references regarding training linked to by someone else to the ‘Friends of LRH Website’ ?

  107. Dick has been a n artist since the age of seven. And has a fine education in arts and lots of great products.

    Another fabulous photographer to the stars was Richard Laird. He worked with me when I was modeling in New York and did some great portfolio’s for me. Sold me to clients all the way to the Moulin Rouge in Paris. He was quiet in general and when DM wiped out the Mission network in New York he disconnected from the Church. His mission with all of friends (mine too) was closed down by the finance police. One of Richard’s jazz images has now been licensed by The Smithsonian Institute! One of the photos he took he took of me is on my facebook page!

    These guys are just great guys.

    And I expect sooner or later we will be hearing from them over here. Sooner than later. So why not keep the porch light on?

  108. Luis Agostini

    Hi Fancy.

    There is a difference between being in a superior condition or position attained by, as you state, guts, integrity and sacrifice, than needing to feel superior or be regarded as superior by invalidating others.

    I am just informing about that particular phenomena which I see happens here.

    Seeking superiority by putting down another is, to me, destructive to the soul.


  109. Hallelujah

    Thanks, RJ —

    My opinion (clearly stated as my opinion) was that most certainly there could have been at least one process I could have run on a pc after each of the levels A, B and C. Level D was the metering. Then I could have gotten in the auditing chair on simple CS’s. It could have expanded from there as the levels progressed. This surely would have offered a balance of mass and significance; application with study; much as the Briefing Course you did in the early 1980’s.

    Regarding the TIPPING, yes, what a delight when it’s done standardly. I used to do it for staff as the SSO. Somehow I got myself in a position as public where I decided what I’d do next. I actually got quite a bit done and tried to keep the training balanced with the auditing.

    Too bad I didn’t finish the BC! However, the day I finished the tapes I felt I had a wealth of source under my belt! No regrets there … L, H

  110. I think he is into counting blow downs now on the release stats.
    Well that is making every action count.

  111. GetTheConcept

    Yes, I have read it and it was the turning point for me in seeing the corruption of the current church. I realized that I and the whole org and all staff everywhere were in treason for following COB’s illegal orders by allowing these courses to be delivered in the Academy and to be substituted for real Academy training. In fact, I wrote up a condition assignment on myself and a recommendation that it be assigned to all the staff at my org, based on that very thing. When that was ignored, I knew that my staff career was over.

    I agree with you (and I have been saying this all along in our exchange that we are having here) that the Academy is there to make auditors. Did you read the part in my first comm where I said, “Substituting book and lecture courses for auditor training in a Div 4 Academy is the thing that is squirrel in this case. The church shouldn’t be putting book and lecture courses in Div 4 and calling it Academy training. This is a misrepresentation”?

    I agree with you that the chrono study should be done on one’s own time and should not be part of Academy training and I said this from the beginning. What I was disagreeing with was only that it seemed that some people were saying that studying the books in lectures in any way was a complete waste of time regardless of where they were studied. Maybe you and they weren’t saying that but I did want to give my opinion and personal reality that studying those, with the intention of application, is a very worthwhile endeavor.

  112. GetTheConcept

    That’s a very good point. I Suped the BC for a short time as a Sup trainee and that outpoint was one of those things that I noticed on a low level of awareness and didn’t really confront at the time and now that you bring it up it is obvious.

    I kind of wondered how the students could retain all that data by studying each lecture just once and going on and on doing that and then, finally cram all the drilling at once at the end of the course.

    I also wondered why so many BC trainees at Flag, when they went onto their internship were on it for months or even over a year, so there may be some correlation there too.

  113. Your humility makes you strong, Luis. 🙂

  114. Marty,

    I read something by Robert Vaughn Young about how being in an abusive cult had a similarity to being a woman in an abusive relationship. It always starts out great, with lots of love (“love bombing”?), good times, etc.

    Then, things get a little rougher. The abuser may apologize, back off a little bit, promise that it won’t happen again, etc. But, the envelope has been pushed. Control is re-established.

    The abuse continues to escalate, but the abused still remembers the “good times”, how much love they have gotten from the relationship in the past, how many feelings they still have for the abuser. So each time that the abuse happens, regardless of the actions of the abuser, the abused *still makes a CHOICE to stay in the relationship*. And what’s really F’d up about it, is that one perception that makes it easier to stay is the idea that maybe she actually DID do something to deserve it. (She “pulled it in”).

    There are lots of reasons to go, but there is a lot invested in the relationship already, and there are still sacrifices to be made. Maybe the abused doesn’t have an income of her own. Maybe she’ll be homeless. Maybe she has kids to take care of. In other words, the status quo may not be all that great, but it is hard to leave because of the losses she will have to go through.

    From the outside, it seems obvious-why would anyone put up with that abuse? But there is more going on mentally than meets the eye.

    So Michael hasn’t made it out, yet.

    One of the things that I feel strongly about is helping women involved in domestic abuse. I contribute to safe houses around my area that provide shelter, support and even help set up households for abused women. It is essential that they have a safe place to go, or they are likely to go back.

    That’s why I am so glad that you all are helping people get out of the Sea Org. What you did-and are doing- for Daniel Montalvo was nothing short of heroic. Keep it up.

    And I hope your sources on the inside could find a way to let others still in know that there are people out here ready and willing to help.

  115. All the smart ones have blown, Wayne.

    That’s why the CoS is getting progressively weaker (and weirder, IMO). The only ones are the truly gullible and emotionally cowed. Their thinking processes are severely repressed because of all the rationalizations they have to make. Not very effective thinkers, but they do perform some entertaining footbullets.

    I just hope it does not all end up like Jonestown.

  116. “BUILD YOUR OWN SANDWICH/BURGER BAR” is the CoS’s contribution to the 2D. Creativity!

  117. Cowboy Poet

    You are a pro!

  118. Wake up and smell the coffee man. LOL
    I bet the smell is waffing there near your place hey Marty? amazing taped call – thank you Marty.

  119. WindWalker


    I think what Doven was attempting to do was “run” the HELP “button” on Marty.
    Looks like he was trying to get Marty to recall a time when he helped someone.
    Several problems with his “handling” though.
    One is that he did not even acknowledge that Marty was helping in present time. So, right off the bat he was not “handling” Marty at all. Marty doesn’t seem to need much “handling” on the “help button”. Seems to be doing just fine to me.
    Then when Marty did say how he had helped others in the past, Doven followed up with an invalidation. Not a workable way at all to get someone to cognite ( the awareness characteristic above “help” is “recognition”). He seems to have actually attempted to “demand improvement” of Marty’s current beingness, doingnesses and havingness. ( note, ” demand for improvement” is the level below “help”, as an awareness characteristic)
    So, whether done calculatingly or not, the action, as applied by Doven,
    would actually tend to drive a person into lower states of awareness.
    Marty, having more free theta than Doven appeared to have at his disposal, did not go downtone, or into a lower state of awareness, in fact he actually brought Doven up a bit, in my estimation.

    Just a different aspect of the encounter.


  120. Wow WW, that’s a pretty in depth analysis and you may be right. But for my money, its far simpler. Doven doesnt have a clue. He just blabbers wth social circuitry entirely inappropriate to the circumstances.

  121. Hey Marty. This link doesn’t seem to work:

    Would like to hear it if still available. Thanks.

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