By Steve Hall, Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun
Being the Indies most often targeted for infiltration and destruction by David Miscavige, and as our blocks have been particularly hot of late, and recognizing that between us we’ve identified and neutralized close to a dozen OSA operatives before they could do much damage: we thought we’d collaborate to share some tips. Tips for living a relatively happy, Independent life while continuing to advance the ball.
David Miscavige’s intelligence operation network, the Office of Special Affairs (OSA) has been very sloppy of late. There is a rule of thumb that can be applied here: The number of Miscavige’s gasket blowing tantrums are directly proportional to the number of bone-headed, over-the-top OSA desperation blunders. The latter are committed in vain attempts to cut down the frequency of the former. As in most matters Miscavige, his psychosis is the cause of those motivators that he runs on everybody else as his cause for going psychotic. We know, a messy scene.
But, we’ve learned a few things in the course of blunting the incursion of some deep-cover OSA operatives. We’d like to share these so that others might be able to guard against the embarrassment of being betrayed by an OSA plant.
OSA agents have demonstrated several – and some most – of the following behavior patterns:
- Name dropping in a sort of creepy way. They particularly like to make themselves sound like life-long comrades of Mike Rinder, Steve Hall, and Marty Rathbun. They make a big point of it – and in every instance we have heard it is a manufactured or highly exaggerated claim used when making pitches that they can be trusted. Please do not confuse this with genuine anecdotes about friends. This is the sort of out of tune “I’m in the inner sanctum”, “I have known and worked with them for X years,” “They are my friends on Facebook, along with X others,” kind of “you can trust me” bull.
- They try to get names and contact information of particularly effective anonymous Indies. More specifically of late they have tried all manner of shifts to find out the identities of:
a) The creator of the savescientology.com website.
b) The persons behind the identities OTDT and Deep Fax on this blog.
c) But in general, any individuals who post anonymously on the blog who discloses damaging information or who appears to be someone important.
- They are very illogical in their own “security” considerations. They are very complex on the subject. While their identities are clearly known by association with certain Indies they still will come up with all manner of excuse for not overtly posting or speaking out or telling all about the crimes they have witnessed.
- Criticism of Miscavige is reserved if uttered at all. Often their critical statements about the church are general, and primarily consist of LRH quotes (intended to make it appear they are very “On Source”). Listen closely, they site policy to stop quite often (an SP characteristic).
- They often ask about “the strategy” or “plans” and have schemes to “participate” or “work together” in order to become trusted and learn all about what is going on and potentially to ensnare or entrap their targets.
- When asked questions about their activities or intentions (by email) they comm lag while they clear their answers with their handlers.
- They have a “sales pitch” they deliver to everyone, whether asked for or not. It sounds like a rehearsed GAT patter – because that’s essentially what it is.
- They do not want to present themselves to law enforcement or government agencies to provide testimony nor do they wish to put themselves into a position to be questioned under oath in a civil proceeding.
- They avoid speaking to the media, excusing it as a “suppressive act” and will even try to dissuade others from doing so, saying “it should be handled through standard channels.”
- They covertly invalidate the purpose of getting in ethics on Miscavige and Co. and attempt to shift their target onto a benign sounding purpose (re-purpose) such as “making money” developing businesses or “just loving everyone”.
- They invite their targets to involve themselves in sketchy activities and situations designed to backfire on the target. They are particularly fond of trying to win agreement with ideas for “taking over” the church (precisely what DM has been falsely alleging since 2009).
- They third party key terminals to create internecine warfare. Examples: they complain they are being third partied when they are not. They characterize Indie’s as “followers” of someone else.
- They roll out elaborate stories designed to covertly, and you have to listen carefully to catch it, impart the message that the Indie movement is creating bad results.
- To establish “reality” with their target, they present themselves as “just like you” in various ways: their history is just like yours, their profession is just like yours, their likes and dislikes are just like yours, their second dynamic is just like yours, etc.
Incidentally, 2 a and b might suggest something to you as it did to us. That is, savescientology.com and OTDT especially are IMPINGING on Miscavige. Why? In the case of savescientology.com, the site documents the exact scam Miscavige pulled, demonstrating with written evidence that he has hijacked LRH’s intentions for the future viability and expansion of Scientology and sabotaged plans for their execution. In the case of OTDT, he/she captures the essence of Miscavige’s personality to a tee.
No witch hunts are invited. Just some tips to friends. The fact of the matter is Miscavige is freaked that the Indie movement is continuing to grow after two years and so he is throwing unprecedented resources at stopping it. Primarily he is banking on intelligence ops doing the trick.
Steve, Marty and Mike
Sorry DM, the internet it here.
It is, in fact, your Vietnam…..a war you cannot possibly win.
Imagine for a second if someone who was actually sane took command after LRH cleared his decks.
At least it would be even.
Looks like it’s working. 🙂
S, M & M,
Thanks for the info on what these cats M.O. is. Good data.
I knew OTDT was impinging ! You so rock!
Thanks Steve, Mike and Marty for an excellent writeup that strips away more smoke and mirrors they are using.
Thanks Marty, Mike, Steve and OTDT for impinging!!
Well, of course DM would be using intelligence. The PR line has utterly slammed shut and “everybody knows” (for once not a suppressive generality) that Scientology has become little more than a punch line in public relations circles. Luckily for him, DM has sheared the sheep of their wool and has ample funds to finance all manner of “intelligence” operations. Of course, unlike the late unlamented Osama bin Laden, Marty, Mike and Steve are in plain sight and communicating freely with one and all. So, one begins to wonder about the wisdom of any “intelligence” operations. By the way, OSA, there are a number of people who know the indentities of the genius behind savescientology and the channeler known as OTDT. Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyahhhhhhh! Skip your personal CSP time again and figure it out. You have enough data.
DM’s effort to stop independent Scientology is the best proof that it is closer to the ideal scene that LRH wanted for our planet.
After all, if independent Scientology was as squirrel as DM wants us to think, then it would NOT prosper; something that DM has reality on within his organization.
I am not a highly tech or admin trained person, but even I know that the best thing DM could do to avoid problems with indies would be to just carry on with Standard LRH admin, ethics and tech and let the indies implode by losing their support because of altering tech.
But, he doesn’t operate as a standard Scientologist , and thus his insanity is laid bare for us all to observe, and his operations are shrinking, as LRH warned it would by altering Scientology.
Long live Scientology. Long live LRH and his legacy.
Now I must really validate Marty, Mike and Steve-You have truly put your asses on the line. Ron would be so proud of all of you. Theta does prevail.
Thanks, Marty, Mike and Steve–this is a good reminder of the techniques. I ran into a few of these and the people were sooooo obvious I felt sorry for them. Nothing that you all don’t already know about. It’s fun to play along with them. Funny thing too–there are more and more and more contributors to this blog. Indie stats continue to go up, DM’s continue to go down–10X faster! Definitely a Lowest Ever! (applause…..)
To the OSA embedded spies in the Indie community
b) AGENT PROVOCATEUR
c) Why you will continue to make a fool of yourself because you work for a Reptilian Predator.
Thanks for this important information. These spies are far too serious for me.
I met a former COS spy many years ago who worked for years in Europe. He told me a little about his method of operation. He met at train stations with his contact and exchanged information. He was gathering “useful data” about government policies and personal activities. He was “under cover” and had to pick up packets of money and instructions. It really ruined his lfe. When I met him, he was working in a retail store and he had difficulty with his concentration. I bought him lunch in a small diner and he was so hungry, I remember. He told me his story because he was broken and confused and totally ill-suited for a productive life. He was used and thrown out which is what happens to so many of them.
Wow! Being a newbie to this blog I am suddenly concerned about my creds! I am also cognizant of the thought and determination that led to this thread. It would have to be known that DM and/or his minions would read it with interest and determination to circumvent the tale-tell signs of being a plant.
Tom M, you would remember me, if at all, as one of the missionaires into the FCB when you were CO, possibly a few months before you left. I was the Sec-checker/RB’er and I can’t recall who the I/C was. Ask Hayden, I did a mission with him into LA Org which was one of its best successful missions.
I think he will remember me, and is also a FB friend. For further cred, my SP declare in 1994 from CCI should be verifiable. (Never been proud of that before but hey, the times they are a’changin’). Can also verify my identity with M. Reppen. Never crossed paths with Rinder or Rathbun, just knew the names.
And to further comment on this post, yes, I am guilty of being curious of the identities of some of the posters. I am also wanting to know the strategy(ies) that go behind the scenes (in order to be a part of them) and I would rather not spill my guts to the cable news guys, tho I could say enough to be interesting.
Not much of a N/E formula, I know. But, well this is me and, hopefully this post will clear me through what is NOT needed an wanted so I can get on with it and be of some real use to those who want to get through this terrible period of Scientology.
Just had 2 glassed of wine; hope all this made some kind of sense.
Thank you, Centurion, for your most eloquent comment. I wholeheartedly agree! L, H
Thank you guys so much for your constant alertness and constant willingness to fight back with accurate comm.
Here we have miscavige and his minions trying to use “intellegence” to “investigate” people who are overt, visible and communicating their intentions on a daily basis while demonstrating them in the real world.
It’s just totally unreal to miscavige or his minions that everyone is not as criminal and covert as they, themselves are. They KNOW we have hidden intentions and activities.
So sad. So silly.
Steve, Marty & Mike: it’s kinda sad… they are like wind-up dolls all made in the same factory on the same assembly line. Like Cabbage Patch dolls, there are minor differences, but the basic DMBot is unmistakable.
Michael A. Hobson
Dan, Thanks for comparing us to OBL. With friends like you, who needs DM, Danny Sherman and assorted fools dreaming up black PR?
Cram on PR Series 27.
TM: 24 hrs
Centurion, What you wrote gave me pause to recall one day back in the mid 1990s when I was twinning with Ken Delderfield (Materials Exec Int) — a hell of a decent Scientologist (whom DM definitely despised) on Key to Life. In looking over the rise and fall of past civilizations and the emigration of populations, Ken commented that throughout the ages, people have always gravitated to the country that had the most freedom. Very true that is.
So, the expansion of Independent Scientology is virtually assured as long as DM stays in power and the CoS continues to betray the purpose and mission of Scientology.
A Reptilian Predator… mmmm… Karen! Well just said it like that or what?
I am not in agreement with Marty that DM is alone. He is more like a Reptilian to me! Now I maybe considered a fool here, but I don’t care.
I think there is a hidden agenda on this planet. The real suppressives never show their faces. DM is their puppet. Cannot be that such a stupid person just because he is as he is, can run Scientology. Maybe on this planet yes. But nowhere else.
So Reptilian Predator. I like that! Have you seen that staring mad look he gets from time to time?
Marty, Mike and Steve thanks for the data. It’s great to see we are impinging and i want to go visit that site.
We are stronger than DM because we are MANY and he is ONE. The Reptilian Predator won’t prevail here. We are many and MORE are coming our way! If DM was not there NONE of the rest would agree with what he is doing. So, he IS just ONE. His fellows are BEHIND HIM and NOT UNDER HIM! Most under him are PTS like we were to a certain degree each.
As we DePTS ourselves and others a lot of free Theta will flow to get that sucker hung by his toes. And the time is coming. All we need to do is keep on the actions Marty and others started through the Internet.
I know you meant it as a joke, but he did say you guys were “unlike” the OBL. I don’t see any disrespect in that. However, comparing Dan to DM and Danny Sherman? Really?? Now, that’s a low blow.
Many of these characteristics of OSA operatives have been observed during their countless attempts to infiltrate and harm the Ron’s Orgs here in Europe. As these ROs exist over 25 years now they were a continuing “enemy” to be “handled”.
Ingrid it has to be driving them completely nuts not knowing the who behind OTDT. Agreed OTDT impinges!
“4. When asked questions about their activities or intentions (by email) they comm lag while they clear their answers with their handlers.”
Very true, I’ve noticed this one for years now.
And the point about asking for “plans” and about the activities of specific people, those are dead giveaways. John Connolly, “spy” reporter asked those types of questions routinely.
I don’t imagine they have any spy media going at you at this time, but who knows what the future will bring. Probably too costly, and probably OSA is happy Connolly was outed, as they don’t have to pay for his work anymore.
I have a question for any OSA ex staff.
What causes OSA their biggest downstats? Do blown operatives cause OSA weekly downstats?
There used to be a whole series of intelligence plus and minus stats, OSA kept, and I wondered WHAT causes them the worst downstats?
And also, do blown OSA helpers get assigned lower conditions for botching up their spying?
Back before the first BBC show ran, the one that Mike was dual teaming it with Tommy Davis, there was a duo of ex Int staff trying to soak me, and even the BBC were shocked at the blatant spy-like behavior.
It was Tony Sheriff and his wife Brigette, who were pumping me and others like crazy all prior to that first BBC show, the first Sweeney BBC show.
Tony Sheriff I outed after the show aired, and his wife too.
My question to those in the know of the repercussions for these volunteer ex Int staff spies, do people like Tony and Brigette get assigned lower conditions when they botch up their spying?
Tony sure botched it with the BBC, who called me, asking what the hell was up with Tony! He came across so obviously as trying to spy for Scientology, and I unfortunately was the relay person putting Tony and Brigette in touch with the BBC, but they got nothing useful, of course from Tony or Brigette for the show, and both were YEARS ago staff from Int.
Later I found out Brigette did OSA and GO spying stuff years earlier, I was told.
Anyways, I’d like to know if these blown spies get in “trouble” and have to do lower conditions when they botch their spying.
It was sounding ok till you put the typo on the two glasses of wine. That seemed rather amateur OSA.
Hey, I want to believe you but I can’t not-is what I’m reading.
By the way, if that was you back in the 80’s who did that qual handling on me thanks very much. That was one of the best handlings I ever got in Scientology. Hopefully you didn’t become an OSA bot.
Karen#1, “Reptilian Predator”…..perfect description.
Thanks Steve, Mike and Marty for this post. And thank you for all you have done for so many over the past couple years.
OTDT – bravo!
I am concerned about the personal safety of Deep Fax. Has he/she been heard from recently?
In Mexico the indie field is growing too. Im responsable to get out about 10 scientologist out of the church. Thanks Steve, Mike, Marty, Jeff, Amy, etc.
THE REASONS COB HATES OTDT
1. When he’s having a screaming tirade fit about the derogatory posts, he gets so tongue-tied trying to pronounce the word ‘OTDT’ he starts stuttering and his lisp becomes embarrassingly amplified, which he hates.
2. Just the letters ‘O’ and ‘T’ side by side send him into fits of fury.
3. The ‘O’ doesn’t fit in with his Pie Face Dictum, especially when it’s near dots or periods, such as:
That’s obviously not Pie Face. Backflash could be coming out of the ‘O’. He needs the Pie Face symbol:
in order to feel secure that there’s nothing evil or suppressive coming out of the Pie Face mouth. Since there is no ‘-‘ in ‘OTDT’ he gets nervous and is compelled into action to stop this beastly suppressive joking and degrading impinging bastard of a writer.
4. His wife caught him laughing at one of OTDT’s postings and that’s why he RPFed her. Now he’s wifeless and blames OTDT.
5. He suspects the posts could contain some kind of embedded hypnotic implant code to make his penis even smaller than it is.
6. He hates what he doesn’t understand, which is why he hates pretty much everything and he especially cannot understand how OTDT has him figured out so accurately.
7. He doesn’t know where to send his Goons to harass OTDT and if it’s one thing COB hates, it’s not knowing where to send his Stooge-Monkey Squads.
8. The ‘DT’ part reactively reminds him of Delirium Tremens, something he hates suffering from whenever he tries cutting back on his Scotch intake, which he also hates.
9. After a hard night of over-guzzling his Scotch, he suspects that HE actually might be OTDT, writing those postings during a black-out. He so hates suspecting himself of being OTDT.
10. He hates not having an OTDT-quality writer on his own staff who can get under the skin of his selected enemies in such an impinging, yet humorous fashion.
PS: Recently, I caught him grumbling to himself about how much he hates me, Deep Fax, following one of his tirades where he heaved his laptop across the room after reading this blog, smashing it to bits and I was called in to clean up the mess. I have a very good Pie Face, so maybe that’s why he doesn’t suspect me.
Once I had a pc who “worked” to infiltrate the Freezone. It was the most pathetic and sad person I had met. After that operation this person had no more friends, not one from the Freezone would talk to him, not one from the Church. For more than a decade this person had lived in a complete vacuum of communication. Just alone. And if I recall right, just before that his case had been badly scrambled. It was so bad. When I FESed the folders I broke into tears.
Add to the cram:
CLAY DEMO: SCIENTOLOGIST
Howard, he/she is everywhere. He/she is camo and shows up in places you would never suspect. He/she is right behind you and then he/she is gone. He/she lives vicariously through himself/herself. He/she is the most interesting man/woman in the world. I hear from him/her all the time. He/she speaks to me through my parakeet.
So OTDT is impinging on DM…… Hell, OTDT is killing me making me laugh my ass off.
♫ We are getting ready to rock!!! ♫
Thanks for the heads up.
Well…OTDT….betcha might have something to say about this. (Trying to maintain my pie face, but…BWAHAHAHAHA!)
OSA bots and wine don’t mix… 😉
All us lowlillies can do is flow you some power whenever we can!
Good job, Jeremy!
Don’t you mean “Interdimensional Reptilian Predator?”
And don’t give me a hard time, either. You know I had to say it.
Were you married to Ann Clark, or was that a different Bruce Clark in the SO?
Thanks for the counter-intel guys.
Suggested reading also is the HCOPL entitled “Counter Espionage”.
Also the book by Christopher Felix (real name James McCarger) “A Short Course in the Secret War”.
Gives some basic data on what these guys are trying to do but seem to be failing miserably at.
Thanx for the pro-tips, guys.
There’s been a few attempts to infiltrate the scene here in Oz and they have been remarkably along the lines that you’ve outlined here.
All the work that OSA ANZO has been doing has backfired big-time on them – and the real joke of it that they don’t know it.
Tick,tock, Davey Boy – not long now!
What follows is tough love:
Part of the more disgusting aspect of the OSA plant ops are to use our ‘friends’ to gain our trust. Unfortunately there are some who pretend to be our friends who are so morally and spiritually decayed already, that they will happily betray us again and again for some cowardly motive to somehow feel better about themselves. Deep down they know they are the lowest of the lowest insignificant bottom feeding slime parasitic lifeforms.
If you truly are who you say you are then you are perhaps a Scientologist who believes that the tech of LRH should be followed and applied?
In which case the doubt formula is the way to go.
Anyone flying completely under the radar is either:
a) A plant and NOT to be trusted or:
b) PTS and NOT to be trusted.
That isn’t to say that a person who is honestly PTS should be immediately distrusted, but why would anyone give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is unable to apply LRH tech to his own life and handle the situation standardly? That person is a Potential Trouble Source per definition.
It’s nice to have new friends. It is sickening when we discover those ‘friends’ are dishonest scumbags.
Welcome to our group. I hope you are genuine and have found your own path to honesty, integrity and truth. I hope you will find the strength and courage to communicate honestly and openly with us.
If you are otherwise then I hope you will find a way to be able to live with yourself once you discover the magnitude of your treachery.
Steve, Mike and Marty,
Thanks for the info. Much of this information fits into what I have experienced regarding plants on my lines.
Seems we have to pull out some weed-killer in addition to the bug spray. Sigh. Pest control.
And the comm lag is a DEAD giveaway because those employed as OSA bots are unable to originate any communication that isn’t completely scripted. Talk about brain dead!
It does bring up a good point: how do we recognize each other?
The answer of course: statistics! Show ’em if you’ve got ’em!
WDAH’s, words cleared, m9, handlings .. What *are* the stats of an independent Scientologist?
For my part, I wish to contribute. I think I will build Chug for us!
“Cannot be that such a stupid person just because he is as he is, can run Scientology.”
Why yes, yes he can
And that’s the ironic joke
Keep feeding him money and he will stay untill he dies.
And may I add, in reference to the op, I know I have been “tainted by association” with a certain suspected plant. My first instinct is always to take people at face value; keep comm lines open and only share information when it won’t compromise a friend or fellow Indie. But at the same time not allow my affinity to be alloyed. I’m very wary about starting some new version of “disconnection” by suspicion, personally. Not least because I have nothing to hide.
OSA UK know rather precisely where I am, what I want and expect (CJC/IJC you have 2 days left to respond to my letter before I pay another visit to St Hill); they’ve done their little hate page on me, they’ve done their spineless, squirrel, slimy little need-to-know covert SP declare (my badge of honour – thanks), they’ve been generous with the contents of my ethics folders to the local field. Either they are confusing me with some one who gives a shit, or they are just too dim for their own good. Either way it all just seems so trivial and silly.
The weight of truth is on my side; that’s all the strength I need. When Marty, Mike and Steve start being less than 50% right, and when DM gets his ethics in (i.e. when Hell freezes over) – then I’ll review my position!
I remember well the statement of Kurt Weiland, standing on the stage in an German Org, must be 1994 or 95, while chasing Vaughn Young:
Quote:”Have you ever heard about the Internet, the total anarchy!!”.
That tells you everything.
What a great post. There is no doubt we are involved in a war. In the last 8 weeks I have grown more acutely aware that we are in one. Who doesn’t fit into some part of or the apparency of the profile of OSA, they use the tactics of familiarity – this is not a matter to be intoverted about but rather it’s a matter of sides. To practice deceit against your very survival is risky in the extreme but such is the short term goals of the insane – have they duplicated nothing of what LRH put forth, I guess not, for even a rudimentry understanding would make you look at self – determinism as your only salvation, for that is basically all what an auditor delivers. To follow someone elses directives is antipathetic especially when it equals no auditing, no lightness of being and what must be a hunted feeling everytime you clock on in the morning.
I must have come across a bit weird when I’ve approached Marty with weird ideas, but hey, they were mine and not part of any agenda. I’m nuts on my own terms…
The OSA prying seems simple: Everyone become a buddhist and then move to New England.
Two things will happen. OSA won’t even bother to visit except maybe in the summer during the 10 days that the weather is nice. (winter, yikes – spring, mud – summer, 10 days – fall, dicey)
As for trying to get “important” information from a buddhist — ridiculous. Everyone knows that buddhist just like to talk on and on about compassion.
That would drive them nuts.
I’m available anytime for a quick conversion class.
🙂 🙂 🙂
I can’t wait for OTDT to show up and post using all the traits lined out above. I’d try, but I’ve decided to acknowlege my better in OTDT rather than compete. 😉
I tip my hat to you, Sir!
“Skip your CSP time” – boy that brings back memories of an insane way to live.
LOL. . . . gives new meaning to those who call DM: MissCabbage. Thanks for this.
As most of you know, I am continually making waves and noise about Disconnection. A wog friend of mine, knowing what I do, called him David Mis-Connection. I thought that was hilarious, as he misconnects most things that he does, like a short circuit, and they blow up in his face!!!
A very interesting thing has occurred. An ex-Sea Org member, whose son made it very clear that he was cutting his comm line to her a few months ago due to her Indie activity, and from whom she has not heard since that time, had a very interested experience on Mother’s Day. The son, still currently in the Sea Org, called her up and wanted to visit her for Mother’s Day. He was on post that day, but wanted to do this before post time. She relayed this to me before the meeting, and we were wondering if this meeting was for spying/intel purposes. They met, and he brought her a beautiful Mother’s Day card and a pot of miniature pink roses! They talked about family things and had a great time! She called me afterwards to let me know how wonderful it was. She did not feel it he did it in order to spy on her.
We are now wondering if Sea Org members have been asked/ordered to be nice to their moms on Mother’s Day. If so, then that shows some more case gain on the part of certain members of the Church. Somebody, at least, is using good roads/good weather on a person who had previously shown antagonism. It was a nice win for her, and I enjoyed it vicariously myself, not hearing from my own son for Mother’s Day, who is currently very pissed off at me for my activities. This does not bother me much, because I know that we as a group are effecting change, at least in those members of the group that can experience change, (the ethics type), and that little by little, it is becoming known that Disconnection as a practice is a stupid thing that only causes more disaffection in the long run.
A nice win for my friend and for me! Hope all of you Moms out there had a great Mother’s Day!
I’m sticking my head over the parapet, and it feels fresh and exciting!
The Truth is not in little nuggets held by the ‘church’ (pthhhh) – it’s out here in ARC-land!
You are all the truth that ever was and ever will be. Axiom One is not first in the list by mistake, and it leads right into Axiom Two. No mistake there, either.
Thanks to the alter-is of the tech, ethics and policy of LRH, and its replacement with thousands of tons of concrete, razor wire, wildly off-target promo and idiot dissem tactics, study of the basics for two years straight, and not run a single process you’re reading about, being trapped on the bridge forever, and getting your anchor points punched in with dimology. Slavery for staff, debt for the public, and PTSness for everyone who comes in contact. Oh, and don’t forget the private tip-offs to disconnect, eh, Cathy (Sprule) Gouws? That’s what’s in the nugget, straight from knucklehead’s ‘tunnel’.
Yes, things are different now, since knucklehead’s hijacking of the group.
Message to knucklehead and your dementors:
How does it feel to be sly, underhand, deceitful, covert, behind-the-back, treacherous, lying, mischievous, trying to spread fear and chaos, cutting comm?
Just like a 1.1, hmm?
Come on, OSA bot, reading this, get the hell out of there! Don’t pick up your £200, sod the routing form, it’s all bollocks, move straight to Go and keep going till you find an indie auditor and get yourself sorted and winning again – remember what that was like? Take a moment now, and recall a time you were happy.
As for any lurkers: please do not ignore the word ‘honestly’ in Step 1. of the Doubt Formula, and be sure that ‘that group’ is the object, the church, and not the subject, scientology. Scientology is not a Third Dynamic. The ‘church’ is a Third Dynamic.
As for knucklehead:
1) Go away;
2) Go further away;
3) Go even further away;
4) Keep going until I say stop;
5) Start NOW!
Thank you Steve, Mike and Marty. Take a win!
And friends of Steve, Mike and Marty, take a win too!
Richard Kaminski (UK)
Wow, Jeremy. This is a big win!!! I want to thank you for your efforts in getting Scientologists to “see the light” in Mexico! Being responsible for getting 10 out of the Church is a big deal! Do you have an active Indie group in your area? Getting connected up and communicating with each other seems to deliver so much case gain and De-Pts’ing! It changed my life completely!
VIVA LA MEXICO!!!
Much love, Catherine
Glad you enjoyed the cram, buddy. But while we put on a pretty good show, I think they’re on to us. And you, you had to open your mouth; they’ll probably add: Comments prone to making “tipos” to their list!
If you are concerned about what kind of impression you made in your 15 comments yesterday, you should set us straight. I for one am most interested in what people do and not what they say. For instance, you say you were declared in 1994. What have you been up to for 17 years? Maybe it would help for people to know. ml, Laura Ann
Wow, Centurion, great comment! If the Indies were not Keeping Scientology Working, FOR REAL, the Indie movement would NOT be growing. Thank you for stating the obvious. It is Flourishing and Prospering because we ARE using Scientology standardly and correctly!!!
WE ARE THE ONES KEEPING LRH’S TRUE LEGACY, HIS BRILLIANT TECHNOLOGY, ALIVE AND WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LONG LIVE THE INDIES!!!!! YEE HAW!!!
OTDT is already a hero amongst us and now Davey makes him immortal!
Thanks Davey, keep up the good works of ousting your arse out of power!
Thanks this is invaluable. And spot on. I’m just wondering (cause sometimes I wonder if I’m paranoid or sometimes they really are out to get you) For the last three days of last week, we had a guy parked outside of our cul de sac. The first day I drove by and he wasn’t quick enough and I caught a glimpse of his face.
The next two days, when he saw us coming he ducked. First to the right side of his steering wheel and the third time was to the left side, not much room between the steering wheel and the door, so I don’t know why he put his head down there. He has pure white hair. I’m in a private cul de sac and to get to my house you would have to cross the federal judge’s private property. So, I feel safe in the middle of my cul de sac. (there are often cars parked in front of our cul de sac – some normal, and some very suspicious.) If it is them, do they have electronics that could hear us in our home that far away? I just hate being paranoid, or always on watch, so I pretty much keep to my family and close friends.
Great “Look out for” piece of hatting.
When I was a spy I wasn’t stupid enough to do all those things, but I definitely did some of them. Also people need to watch for what they say to even their closest trusted friends —some PI may have befriended that person and is getting every thing you say, from your innocent friends.
Nah, not a bot, but if so, only more comm can debot him.
Hey Richard. Nice kick there.
Welcome Richard. Nice to see you here!
Well done Scooter.
DM’s reaction to an invite with OTDT:
OK, I admit that I am an OSA bot and have been working with Bruce.
It was sort of a good cop bad cop routine until he just blew my cover. I report into dm daily and he is not a happy camper. I guess that Bruce drinks too mush wine and makes bad typos as he wants to get back onto the RPF.
Yes, spotting them is a great exercise in obnosis (observing the obvious) and in applying the data series, i.e., spotting outpoints.
Nance: Get a license plate and then invite them to New England. Right now the weather is great except the ALLERGY factor is HUGE.
No worries though — I’ll teach them to meditate and they can do that while sitting for hours outside someones home.
That would be me, tho Ann & I divorced shortly before I routed out; in part because she and our son, Wesley could remain on staff. If you know the story of what happened after that you’ll also know that didn’t work out too well.
I am currently remarried to a wonderfully theta non-Scientologist and we own/run a small Mom/Pop bakery in central Washington state.
This is the first I’ve come out publicly with other ex-SO and what IS true is that, despite my upfront style of comm, I’m still holding back some. I can see that there is a fine line between running out a group engram (DM, et al) and playing the victim. Not a very popular thing to say, for sure, but I am seeing both here in the posts. Mostly though, I’m seeing some really good people here who evidently care. And I’m seeing people like M&M doing far more than I’ve been doing for the past years as well. So…, I’m experiencing some personal changes and learning.
Thanks for your reply.
Like it. A lot. All of it, including your intelligence, attitude, creativity, authenticity and tone level. Welcome.
Heart of oak!
Sam — I love it.
You articulate so well where we (the LRH principles abidin’ Indies) live.
(Note to self: Compilation of Sam’s comments over the course of the life of this blog makes a good Indie orientation and hatting.)
We do build a world with broken straws, but by god, one better duck and cover if one is found out to be intentionally preventing the fixing of or adding to the broken straw.
Richard, your name seems very familiar to me. Have we met?
That is wonderful. Thanks for that.
For all the Mothers I did not contact to personally wish a very happy Mother’s Day, I did think of you and intended that for you. It matters not if we really do know each other. To me, LRH said “Men are dogs.” when he wrote the last couple of paragraphs of Science of Survival, Ch 18. (Now before you get all over me, I am a dog. Dogs are quite valuable and LRH said so.) Mothers rule (or should)!
Nance, The saddest part of this is that so many of us simply joined this activity to help and be helped. And it has become this- to quote the preclear origination sheet, “What does this have to do with religion?”
Re the fellow at the end of the cul de sac, pulling up and asking him why he is hiding when you drive by would probably give you all the info you need. Or even calling the police department to report suspicious activity.
Have we established that Deep Fax is in fact a single individual? It could be a whole movement now.
Well, you know me, the J. Walter Madman of the Indie movement. I am also a security professional as I have proven to you numerous times.
LOL, I loved my time in Asia, especially the mountain regions in Thailand visitin the temples. Helped build a water purification plan there which I need to go revisit and upgrade with the latest technology and solar panels.
I loved learning about Budhism, grew much from it, but couldn’t figure how to reconcile the pacificism part of it … I feel sometimes you have to fight, some things need to be actively stopped.
Also, I never succeded in having a beer with any of the monks I spent time with.
Mike, Marty and Steve,
Good writeup, thanks.
One of the things I have been suspecting, actually have been fairly sure of, is a strong effort to create animosity between the different “factions” outside the COS to prevent sharing of information and knowledge resources. How much of a factor do you think this is in their current strategy, or may I be “over thinking” stuff?
A person that has truly seen the light doesn’t have a problem with delivering an effective blow to the enemy. That is how we get out of a lower condition for our reasonableness.
A person who talks big but takes no action is suspect IMHO.
I believe creating animosity between “factions” is a different subject than trying to send in a plant on someone.
Stirring up dissention/3P can be done in numerous ways, and it is certainly a valid intel target. It’s the purpose of the “anti-Marty” sites, “Freedom” mag, trolls on the blogs, PIs going around and “interviewing” neighbors, friends and business associates (really all they are doing is asking loaded questions “Did you know Mike Rinder eats babies” or “Does he owe you any money — he left behind a bunch of people he owed money to in the last town” kinda stuff) and media statements (they are “all connected to the Anonymous hate group” or they are “all squirrels like Mayo” etc etc). But apart from the intended result of creating a sort of paranoia of “you can’t trust anyone” when a plant is exposed, thus creating doubt and 3P about everyone, these two activities don’t really coincide.
In my experience, usually plants are all for “inclusion” so they can get on as many lines as possible. Their normal intent is gathering information so the “powers that be” can predict “which way cats will jump.”
Now that is a PROPER introduction full of ARC.
I’d say it’s not just a mere factor, but their central theme! Divide and conquer is the rule. Steve
You need to hang out with some Shambhala Buddhists — (not the monks or nuns though) — most of them all drink except a few AA guys or me, who never liked it.
Spending time in temples is awesome. Sounds like a great experience.
There are ways to handle the pacificism actually —
Yeah – OTDT, I think you nailed it with #6 above.
Aww, give a New England “summer” more credit than that. And if you’re a real New Englander, then you know that Springs and Falls are way better than described.
But then again … you did post it on May 9. So I have sympathy. 🙂 (Especially after THAT winter!) 🙂
I love The Blue Dog.
Me too. Big fan.
The person who gave me the cram had reddish hair and I think they had a repaired hair lip. I am not joking here and am not trying to degrade. That is what I recall of the person who did the cram/review on me.
If you are that person then you should go back to auditing people if you have such a burnning desire to use the tech. It is definitely needed and wanted. Or come out on Marty’s blog formally, that is always a good way to deliver a blow.
I’m a big fan of The Blue Dog, too.
Aaah, go ahead and give it a shot!
Thanks for the post guys. Especially pointing out savescientology.com
I did not know it existed, so I went and checked it out. VERY cool site.
You get Ceak
Stat analyis time boys and girls; especially thoughtfull, Mike and Tom Martiniano …. Sydney Day and Foundation actual stats for the 4th quarter 2010. Syd D & F were traditionally the strongest orgs in ANZO, right next door to FOLO and the AO. Might it be possible these types of stats are breeding the desperation to stomp out independants?
Paul talks to Church Scientologists in their own words/terminology
Great post, WH
I was born this life in western Massachusetts and spent 20 years in the cold winters.
Sending you a gift of the Dhamma which is a video which I prepared for Vesak(2,600) which is in May in the Theravada tradition.
Much Metta (Loving Kindness)
The Blue Dog is a friend of mine.
There are a few traits I’ve observed in the few OSA spies I’ve encountered.
1. They try to get people to sell them copies of materials with the intent of taking one to court for copyright infringement.
2. They are generally afraid to go on an E-meter. One girl came to see me, later confirmed as a spy, and I said I’d demonstrate e-meter improvements to her and handed her the cans. She took them without thinking then dropped them almost instantly when she saw her TA was at 6.4 .
3. They tend to turn up at the door without prior invitation.
4. They tend to have plastic gleeful smiles.
Thanks, makes sence … coming back to me … I have been out of the game to long.
Refresh my memory, what would be the full spread of intel/invest tools the Corporation of Scientology would be deploying at this time:
ODC – Overt Data Collection; google, newspaper articles, public record searches, etc. Also going through trash and PIs.
CDC – Covert Data Collection: Hacking phones for records, internet accounts, illegal surveylance, illegal wire tapping, etc.
Harrasment, PIs, disconnection, spreading rumours, slanderous internet sites, etc.
Confessional and ethics folder culling for names and things with which to harass.
Covert Harassment, confidential reports to government agencies such as IRS, etc.
Plants to gain intelligence and direction either to use in legal, PR or psychological harassment.
Internet trolls or trouble makers.
I know I am missing a lot … please, if you could, refresh my memory on the full spread of their “intel/invest arsenal”.
I believe this too.
It seems to me that awhile back when all the squirrel stuff was brought up on the blog that it ruffled some feathers.
I think OSA is trying to capitalize on this and send in “standard tech” blow hards to push buttons and weaken the overall collectivity to unmock Dm, share info, unmock group ARC etc.
Spring is usually completely muddy. Which is why it is called MUD season.
This year — not so bad. But remember — BLACK FLIES — come out Mothers Day and leave Fathers Day. Makes any spring tortuous.
Summer — 10 days — max 🙂
And this winter — OMG — more roofs caved in under the snow than any other year.
OSA spies are welcome. My neighborhood especially. It’s semi-gated and unpaved streets. They would get lost OR would get hemmed in by security.
And then I could bore them to death teaching compassion 🙂
I hope they come.
Good job Martin!
Thank you so much.
Now that’s the appropriate way to introduce yourself!
Nicely done Richard
Pop over for a cuppa anytime you’re free 🙂
(my email is on the back of my Gravitar thingy)
Be fun to publish the whole blog in book form wouldn’t it? 😀
Steve, Marty and Mike,
Now’s my chance to thank you all 3 at once and I can’t think of the words. There are no words. ml, Laura Ann
In all fairness to Miscavige I think we should give a description of what he should look out for in regards to someone who may be watching and reporting on him.
It could be a contractor, long term staff member or even a well respected public. It could be a person who sits in the front row, smiles and claps the loudest. It could be a security guard, personal staff member, his own father or even his wife.
Actually it could be anyone with the ability to think and act for themselves.
That kind of person doesn’t need to be paid, drilled or tightly controlled so they don’t screw up.
Additionally there are top level professionals from governments around the world that are investigating and gathering intelligence in their own ways.
There is a growing number of people watching and reporting on their first hand observations of Miscavige’s criminal and insane behavior. The internet serves as a great way to make such observations public record.
The justice system is there to provide the “hole” and a whole new set of “friends” when the time is right.
Hiding only works for so long, ask Bin… ops, too late.
That’s your real name?
Apologies for the ‘under the radar’ barb. Thought you were going by an alias.
Hi Marty, Mike and Steve,
Thank you for the post and also for the http://www.savescientology.com website. I had not seen that before and it confirms for me many things that I have known and seen but did not had the backdrop of in terms of corporate Scn, RTC, CST and CSI.
I am posting under my full name as in recent hours I received a nasty hateful email from my husband (recently separated) stating that he had put the name Lana into Google Alerts, along with the name of this blog, so that it would alert him if a Lana posted here. He started getting alerts recently apparently, so has been reading through the blog to try and figure out what postings have been made by me.
Interesting…. His upset is connected with the fact that he feels I am endangering his “eternity” if I say anything contrary to the party line with Corporate Scn . His email was in a tone level of hate.
I answered by referring him to read the savescientology.com website and asked him to ask Mike Sutter and Marion specifically about the facts therein.
In retrospect I should have advised him to put the name Lana, sex and pole dancing into Google Alerts so that he can see me in my prime.
I mean heck, between juggling two small children, a business and 2 part time jobs, a girl has got to let her hair down sometimes!
P.S. As you will check this space tomorrow Mitch — I have made it easier for you now. You can put in Lana Mitchell and this blog name into Google Alerts and not have to do tons of searching to find my posts.
I guess Internet trolls or troublemakers could include Cointel Pro / 3rd Party actions which you nailed above as one of their mechanisms.
But I suspect now that all earth avenues are being pursued — voodoo dolls, exorcisms, copper rod tech and my favorite: ostrich tech (OT*). I believe the most positive results have been obtained with the latest developments and refinements regarding OT*.
* apologize for the duplicate abbreviation. Life can be so confusing sometimes.
Then it wasn’t me. Maybe it was ASHO-D but even then the only person I remember there with red hair was Red VanDyke and I don’t think he did that much cramming.
Mat — you da man.
Sorry to hear Mitch is still being a sheeple. I am sure he is scared to look at that website. And how interesting it is that this line of “endangering your eternity” still works. If you actually think about the logic of this, it is absurd. As a thetan, you are unkillable. It is knowledge of yourself, not what someone else tells you, that determines your condition and future state. And I can guarantee Philip that if his concern is his eternity, there is a lot more truth outside the church than in it at this point. But of course, this will fall on deaf eyes (?) when he reads this as “its coming from an SP.”
Anyway, its nice to have you back.
Good luck with your pole dancing. Maybe you can put up a video of it one of these days…
I very much applaud you knowing the stakes of your husband and 2 young kids.
I have read your posts and understand what you say. I have 3 questions to ask you. Please answer them with full flourish and as much detail as you want.
1) What are your current thoughts, opinions, feelings about David Miscavige ? (The “leader at the Helm” )
2) What is your reaction to Miscavige’s Sp Hole / Sp Hall and his way of handling staff ?
3) As a former cramming officer, can you state your thoughts on every single Sea Org member wearing a dual hat to REG the public for $$$$$$ one slot a day, no matter what their post is as ordered and designed by Miscavige ?
Funny you brought this up, had a small lunch over the weekend, and using kevin bacons 7 degrees of seperation had three people in his current inner circle within 2-4 people of just us few. Quite amusing that he doesn’t know how vulnerable he is.
The worst statistic crash happens when an OSA operation has been traced back to Scientology.
Regarding those who messed up an OSA operation : imagine they want to go up Dave’s “bridge” and get their OT eligibility check. And the auditor asks them a question like “have you ever endangered or damaged Scientology ?”. And later the MAA asks them “what are you going to do to make amends for that ?”
There’s a game afoot that hasn’t been remarked on AFIK.
It’s very similar to the Black PR handling whereby the target’s information is invalidated so as to invalidate ALL of the targets statements and activities….with a twist.
A while back I spotted a mole on another popular site. The anonymous poster gave himself away (to me) by referencing an event which only a couple people had knowledge of many years ago. This perked up my ears so-to-speak.
He then made other statements in posts which I knew to be false.
I also knew this person to have done covert ops, as public, in the AAC affair.
So I watched his posts. they were loaded with vitriol and poison toward LRH, the Tech, and only glancingly – Miscavige.
I was a bit puzzled for a bit but finally worked it out.
I saw that the “op” was to make the whistle-blower/Ex community seem so crazy and hateful as to repel any lurkers or lookers among the brethren. Make it seem so insulting and degrading of LRH and the Tech as to dissuade anyone from joining the disenfranchised ranks. Better the devil you know…as it were and better to stay safely away from the nutters out there that hate LRH.
Secondarily, by enturbulating and invalidating any possible gain from the subject, those already disenfranchised would remain in a spun condition and thereby be less effective. In other words, pour on the coals of reverse tech and spin the “SP’s” even more.
Both of the above tactics are working like a charm because a) few if any have spotted it and b) there’s such a fertile field of failed cases and pissed off public it’s not hard to just add to the chaos and ratchet it up a few notches.
Like I said, there is a game afoot.
The harder they fight us the more they will lose. It’s natural law.
They will make us stronger and stronger which if you look at it….IS the case!
Martin, well done! “the weight of truth is on my side”, mine also!
Lana, So very glad you are improving conditions across the dynamics because nothing good can come from being connected to a suppressive group or to people who have become so degraded by being PTS for so long, they can no longer observe anything or think for themselves. You should consider exposing everything the CoS has done to wreck your marriage and silence you from stating what you have observed. Very glad to have you back. Perhaps you never really left.
Mitch — Miscavige IS the SP. The world you are living in is delusional. Why don’t you, for once, apply TR-0 and look? Just LOOK. LRH trained people to confront. You are letting a suppressive group come between you and a wonderful wife who means well.
You are worried about your “eternity”? First of all, you can move up the Bridge outside the CoS. Second, it’s impossible to move up the Bridge inside the Church without becoming so heavily PTS that you bring death to everything you touch. Hell, you are killing your second dynamic as we speak! Do you really think a religion would break up a family?
The problem Mitch is you are not looking at ANYTHING. You are only listening and following and that is a robot.
I dare say you do know there are some things wrong with the CoS. Yet you just not-is them. Now how are you possibly going to go “OT” while your responsibility level is in the toilet? You can’t do it. That is not a route to OT, it is a recipe for disaster.
You are not being ethical. You are being out ethics in the extreme. You would sell out Scientology and LRH and the whole human race because you are worried about your own eternity? You are being suppressive yourself.
Who else would bust up their own marriage to save his own imagined skin? It’s time you came to your senses and stop committing continuous present-time overts by supporting a corporation that fraudulently claims to represent Scientology.
We are all here waiting to welcome you if you have the courage to open your eyes.
If Mitch considers that any other determinism than his own has the power to either grant or remove his eternity, then his eternity has already been seriously compromised.
You’re right, that strategy is to “break up SP comm lines” — verbatim. The old GO used that and OSA still uses it today. However it is only the comm lines they view as “SP.” Hence they roll out all manner of third party, and trolls do the routine of heavily agreeing with the target and then spitting out something that would repel anyone: “Marty is the greatest! The CoS is terrible! And I’m having great wins in my auditing that I’m doing using an old hair dryer hooked up to a sewing machine while I smoke pot.” How do you clear everyone out of the pool? Pay some person like Louanne to crap in it.
Haven’t met them Shambhala budhists that like beer. A new world may be opening for me …
As an Aussie of German Parents, I have no choice but to like it … a genetic requiement.
What are the ways to handle the pacificism?
I commented sometime back that many of the actors involved especially on the the ‘net or usenet:
Directly attack Ron and basically say that Miscavige is just following his policies or directives or some kind of bull shit like that.
In many cases defending the rabid lil’ squirrel as some kind of “victim of circumstance”.
The way I used to handle these guys is ask them specifically what exact policies or directives?
Usually I got attacked myself or they’d responded with some vague innuendo or generality of some kind or they’d ignore the question entirely.
The purpose I believe was to attempt to position Miscavige as the heir apparent to Scientology.
Also to give the impression that an attack against Miscavige was an attack against Scientology.
As if the two were somehow co-terminal.
The “game” has been going on since at least ARS.
(ARS was relatively even handed at one time until OSA went into operation now its totally antiScientology)
What I think they have mainly been trying to do is eliminate Safe Points ( as Ron discusses in the PR series) and despite anything else they have been relatively “successful” at stirring up enough *entheta* that many Scientologists tend to reject this aspect of the internet because of this.
This was pretty much the case until Marty’s blog here Jeff’s as well and sites like Steve’s Scientology cult, Friends of LRH and now savescientology which they seem to be very interested in eliminating because if enough Scientologists became aware of what was on that site.
The corrupt authoritarian infrastructure installed by the coup would probably collapse in a short time by demands to reform the Organization and eliminate its corrupt dictator David Miscavige.
Beautifully and succinctly stated.
What to Believe
I’ve recently noticed a growing claim that it’s hard to know what to believe, “anymore”. I have seen it from the Right, but also from the Left. My first response was to think the truth is as apparent as it has always been; but if people are complaining, “not so,” then there must be something to it.
Too, I am convinced that, at least to some degree, the sudden popularity of claiming difficulty in recognizing truth can be no more than an assertion of irresponsibility for having forwarded some falsehood or other. True, there are a lot of falsehoods being aired these days.
I’d like to reverse this popular embrace of ignorance. Let’s, right now, abuse ourselves of the whole idea that we are all a victim of the lies we’ve been told. We need to get back to the belief that a person has an innate ability to reason. And more, that a person is responsible for being able to tell truth from fiction, and tell fiction from truth, even if it takes a little effort to do so.
Let’s take the example of a tomato.
It’s sitting right there on a table in front of you. It’s of the right size and of a known tomato shape. If you get right up close to it the smell, from your past experience, confirms that it is in fact a tomato. It’s even red!
But then the words of the Left say, “It’s all GMO! It’s a Frankenstein monster of genetic engineering.” And all the good people warn, “It’s the fruit of the devil and should not be eaten!”
Karen, the short answers are too easy, essentially identifying Miscavige as an SP. However the long answers could be their own blog.
Starting with #3, about 2 years ago (Not knowing then what I know about DM now) or so I contacted IJC by email stating I was interested in handling my SP declare, and gave all my contact info. Nothing happened for months. So I wrote again, TR-3. Months later I got a phone call from a D/IJC (forgot his name). He immediately began telling me about the updated LRH books (1st red flag, or 2nd if you count the huge comm lags) so I steered the conversation back to my handling the declare. He then turned it right back to books. This went on and on for over 20 minutes when the guy finally accepted that he had a failed reg/book cycle and hung up on me. I was left in disbelief and trying to digest as best I could that he, and evidently the IJC Office didn’t give a crap about me or handling the declare. After hearing about the dual reg hat I finally understood what all that craziness was about. It’s a real org killer, raking in short-term profits at the expense of long-term viability. Hell, it takes the whole staff off purpose and prevents them from doing their post.
On #1&2 I have to say that I’ve never been to Int and never personally met DM. But I have seen abundant evidence of his culture of intimidation while on staff.
As one personal incident for example, I had become the subject of ridicule during a staff meeting while at CCI. The act I was supposed to be guilty of was based on single report and was false. I remained silent during the staff meeting as it wasn’t the time and place to handle it. Later I requested to speak with the CO personally in order to set the record straight. Before I could even open my mouth when I entered Dave Petit’s office he bombasted me with further accusations and degrading remarks. Then when I tried to have my say he came from around his desk and physically attacked me. Being me, I fought back. The physical fight was short lived as I skidded out of his office. And then, incredibly, one of the security guards had been standing back in the adjoining room came forward to Dave and offered up that he had witnessed the whole thing and say how I had started the whole thing, coming into the office and physically attacking. Dave, to his credit, informed the guard that it was okay, just let me go. I never got into any trouble for the incident. As a precursor to all this, Gary, our Dissem Sec. had just a few weeks before told me how DM had Dave Petit pinned to a wall by his neck while shouting at him.
I must also add that my own actions, especially earlier when on CMO-PAC staff I did some handling that I was not and am not proud of. The fear-mongering has a long history and I am just now leaning its true source.
And, while I’m at it, I’ll say a word about the suppressive use of disconnection policy. I’ve not said this before to anyone, not even Ann, but I do hold the Church’s use of disconnection responsible, at least in part, for our son, Wesley’s suicide. I have to think that if he had been allowed to communicate with his mother and I while he was in the SO then it never would have happened. Obviously there’s a longer story here.
Enough for now. I’m actually going through a lot here, and it’s not comfortable stirring all this up. More later.
Welcome back. Your husband has major not understoods if he thinks any group can give or take away his eternity. He was born with it!
I also want to give you a very well done on the video of you and the flannel flower business. It is a very uptone and honest video. Just as any apparent problems with that farming venture worked themselves out so, too, will any apparent problems with the current “church corporation.”
For those not aware of the award the video is here
Lana Mitchell – 2010 NSW RIRDC Rural Women’s Award winner
And to your husband Mitch – you need to visit this site and really look at what the true actions of the current “church corporation” are. You should be able to observe and know them by their products. Look at the products – absolute insantiy – product promoted of freedom for the spirit of mankind and your tools are razor fences.
Mitch, just google “razor fence + int base” and you will get this:
There are some changes in the buildings but this will give you a true view of a group more akin to a prison camp than the true spiritual freedom for all of mankind. Just look Mitch.
Lana – be strong and let your hair down any time you want. You have earned that.
Pardon me for jumping in here.
Q: “What are the ways to handle the pacificism?”
A: “Beer. And more Beer.”
Amen. Probably the most important cognition I had was that my eternity was MINE and was not determined by any auditor, c/s, maa, church leader or any other being. Now I really am FREE.
+1 😉 🙂
LANA, YOU ROCK GIRL.
I CAN ONLY HOPE MITCH GETS HIS HEAD SORTED OUT. THERE ARE SO MANY STELLAR EXAMPLES OF INDIE BRIDGE PROGRESS ALL AROUND THESE DAYS. ALL HE HAS TO DO IS RIP OUT THAT KOOL-AID IV AND HOOK UP WITH THE BEST.
BTW, WE ONLY HAVE A FEW TIM-TAMS LEFT (YUM).
Aha!!!! Now I know who you are!
😀 😀 😀
Well would you look at that. Communication truly is the universal solvent 😉
Reckon I was getting shoved onto the RPF’s RPF right around the time you were getting declared.
Unless it was in the UK or on the ship, 73-74, then probably not, sorry Mike.
Jeez just read the last bit of your comm (I missed that while I was busy putting all the pieces together).
So sorry to hear about your son Bruce.
I’m going to mostly agree with RJ here (shudder! – :p ). I’ve seen pretty much the same crap as he describes all over Ex-Scn Message Board , the old Operation Clambake Message Board , Anonymous’s WhyWeProtest.Net and the predecessor to all these – the Alt.Religion.Scientology USENET newsgroup.
Michael A. Hobson
Garr! There was other “stuff” typed into the document ahead of what I copy & pasted into my reply. My response should start beginning with, “Karen, the short answers are too easy….”
Sam, trying to place you. From UK?
Thank you guys, for your kind welcome.
Good show (the British phrase), Bruce!
It’s plenty for me to digest for now, so I welcome the respite.
Miscavige freaked about the growth of the Indie movement? Of course he is. Every OT who leaves the CofS is one less person who can be gotten soon onto the gravy train of OT7/6 month checks/”forced accomadations” at Flag/regular Flag IAS reg cycles. And with each blow delivered, Miscavige has to seriously wonder every now and then about the threat from WITHIN……will some of his juniors finally see the light or “have had enough” and hustle him into the back of an SUV and drive him to the state border and drop him off at a bus station with a ticket East and the comm “Don’t show your face here again.” Yeah, just a matter of time Dave…keep looking over your shoulder. You won’t see it coming.
Thank you. Welcome to the blog! ml, Laura Ann
@Sam, PTS, sure, but it doesn’t mean one is in doubt; maybe just sick of getting a hassle.
What kind of ‘church’ has policies on ‘counterintel’?
WOW! Thank you for sharing that cognition with us Yvonne . . . . very cool! Never had looked at it quite that way! It really puts one’s first dynamic hat on in reference to eternity, doesn’t it? I guess I better get back to listening to those PDC lectures!
Are you back from your trip?
Richard — Ship 73-74. A lot of that time I was on the shore unit in Madeira, but Sept 73 through the Feb 74 I was on the Deck Force. ANd then after the Madeira rock concert I was CO FB Comm. What was your post? Mike
Update to Scn movie, now on the net…world-wide distribution:
“It’s not uncommon for a film to hit out at organized religion, but a long-gestating Paul Thomas Anderson script is ready to do the uncomfortable: take on, in metaphor, the Hollywood-centric Church of Scientology.
Deadline reports that Anderson’s proposed film, once under the working title, “The Master,” but now without a name, has had its worldwide distribution rights bought by the Weinstein Company following a multi-studio bidding war. It guarantees a global audience for the film, which will star Philip Seymour Hoffman as a man who creates a religion in 1952, and Joaquin Phoenix as his second in command.
The film, which begins shooting in June, is a long time coming; the script was finished in 2009 and then shelved before the recent movement. According to Variety, the first iteration centered on the relationship between The Master (Hoffman’s character) and Freddie (the lieutenant, to be played by Phoenix. “As the faith begins to gain a fervent following, Freddie finds himself questioning the belief system he has embraced, and his mentor,” the industry daily reported.
Whether this was originally part of the story or not, the new script has Hoffman as a shaken war veteran who creates the religion in the 50’s, which, according to Deadline, “catches on with other lost souls.”
L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, served in the Navy in World War II, and following his post-war release from the hospital, founded the belief system in 1952.
The group has a fervent following in Hollywood, including stars such as Tom Cruise and Will Smith. Clearly, they won’t be a part of the film despite Anderson’s talents; he’s an Oscar-nominated writer/director, whose biggest hits include “Boogie Nights,” “Punch, Drunk, Love” and “There Will Be Blood.”
A 20th century one? A bit more sophisticated than “eye for an eye” or “death to the infidels” ??
Reptilian Predator is a good term.
What is truly pathetic is these dupes working for the Reptilian Predator don’t seem to realize they were thrown under the bus so that their perceived “eternity,” which perhaps is a big factor, doesn’t exist under the Predator’s program and is a total lie.
Much better reality factor.
Yes, welcome to the blog, Bruce.
Thanks for coming back out in the open on this blog. I am completely amazed that guys still consider their “eternity” is some one else’s determination! Don’t they realize that DM has changed LRH’s Bridge to total Freedom to “DM’s Bridge to No Where?”
Perhaps, as Mitch is now more into googling and finding out he would go to the Friends of LRH site: http://www.friendsoflrh.org/COBvsLRH/
You at least spoke your mind; didn’t like it, but respect that part of it. And you showed in the end that you do have a sense of humor. Hi Tony.
How´s that Jeremy?
Thanks, JM. I know I came in with only one foot in this water and spoke my mind rather directly, which can understandably be looked at askance at by those already swimming. Thanks for the welcome
I don’t know why a few have said ” welcome back”? Did you go somewhere and come back?
Your husband (ex) is a moron.
I feel lighter after reading your cog Yvonne! Somewhere Ron says that a thetan actually can’t do anything but survive. It’s all a matter of how we feel about the game as we go forward; how much cause and/or effect we feel. I think you’ve hit on something important Yvonne – we can all take more responsibility for being who and what we are and in creating our own postulates, opinions and viewpoints.
Thank you. You know, I told my friend who advised this blog to me, and noted that I was taking some flack, that it didn’t bother me. But truth be told, it’s nice to feel some welcoming friendliness.
Hi Bruce. Thank you for the welcome. Sorry about the tomato thing (Mis-inclusion in my above post).
I only see stats for Sydney Day, and a random selection of strange ones at that. But there are some interesting facts to be gleaned from them.
The org is badly insolvent, $120,000 in bills and no cash, with the oldest unpaid creditor bill nearly 4 years old! Meanwhile, there is $184,000 in the book account, no doubt transferred from money on account for people buying their (second?/third?) set of books/congresses/ACCs as the org has virtually NO CGI. They average around $12,000 per week GI and $1,000 per week CGI.
Staff pay averages $87 per week for the quarter, though it is jacked up by peaks for the IAS event and Xmas bonus (there is no way with $1000 CGI to be paying the staff even a measly $87/week unless the staff pay sum is heavily subsidized by fundraising commissions for IAS and Ideal Orgs). Lo and behold, they average $71,000 per week of “fundraising GI” – though nearly half of the quarterly total is in the week of the annual IAS event at almost $400,000. There is 6 times as much attention and pressure on fundraising as there is on services to move people up the Bridge.
They average less than one new person per week starting on a Div 6 course – and of the 10 total for the quarter, 6 were on the last week of the graph. They complete 4.5 6B services per week.
The Unused APs stat is false. No way it could be worsening $40,000 in a week with a GI of $12,000 and Value of Services Delivered of $10,000.
Obviously this org, like every other org on the planet, is focused on two things ONLY: Fundraising (not for services) and selling books and lectures to existing public (there are no new public being gotten in).
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Bruce, Some of us can be a little gun shy at times. Thanks for persisting. We really are a friendly bunch! ml, Laura Ann
Hail. A different celebrity is mentioned besides Tom Cruise and John Travolta It’s about time. Those two have been being pulled out of the “Celebrity Hat” for three decades, about time there’s a new one.
Is Will Smith finally out of the closet as a Scientology Incster?
Damn the Scientology Incsters are doing a good job of estranging L Ron Hubbard and keeping people away from the subject. (OK so Hubbard had some weirdo policy letters but those were weirdo times he was living in. Most of his stuff rocks.)
Still, Scientology doesn’t have one really charismatic or spiritual celebrity.
One that has had unwarranted attacks in it’s formative years?
One that is about living — the good, the bad, the ugly.
I am not advocating secrecy. A religion as above would not necessarily advocate secrecy, especially long term. Nor would it advocate like kind retribution.
I quote, the word Scientology is followed by celebrity touting “…with such stars as….” and it’s Tom Cruise, John Travolta…and?
and? annnnd? for years. Decades. Annnnnd? Who else? ? Sorry man. And now a movie that will probably further misrepresent the subject because too many dull tools in the shed. 😦 Damn that ship is running aground.
I have read three very interesting books recently by Nancy Many, Jeff Hawkins and Amy Scobee respectively. It took all of this reading, plus the St. Pete Times story about the “Truth Rundown,” for me to get it through my head that when you call David Miscavige “psychotic” you mean just that. It is not hyperbole. You are not exaggerating nor are you dancing around one word with another. There is just no other way to explain a man who is so heedless of his own interests. This has given me a very different understanding of what could be going on behind the high walls of what you term “corporate Scientology.” All of this makes me apprehensive about what could happen those poor people still within his grasp.
Another tip for Indies. Review the definition of “security” in the admin dictionary and apply it everywhere. Also realize that every posting you make is likely being put together under your “handle” name and any personal data you may have inadvertently given over the last two years in said posts, is likely being strung together to paint a picture so that you can be discovered. What else do the OSA analyzers (har har) have to do??
You should have seen Marty slap me around (Figuratively 🙂 ) when I first arrived. Around here, you have to keep it real or others will help you out. We are all a bunch of pussycats at heart though…
Nice video on the flowers, AND the next video after explains what she means about “Lana Mitchell pole dancer.” LOL I bet her husband is already familiar with what she meant. Hmmmm….
Pearls of Wisdom! ml, Laura Ann
Geeze OSA wants that info on those terminals? Why didn’t you guys just say so? No problem! On the night of May 24th send a good looking Sea Org MAN, (Um, Kurt would do) to the Petrossian Bar at the Bellagio Casino in Las Vegas at 7:00 p.m. with a briefcase holding 50,000.00. He is to order a Nagori Aviation (saki based drink, no MU’s!) from the bartender Bob and pay for it leaving a 30% tip. I will approach the bar and pick up his drink and drink it. He is not to touch it himself. This will be our signal sign. Then He will hand me the briefcase. I will walk away with the money. Thirty minutes later, at 7:30 p.m., someone will walk up to Him and hand him the secret identity list. Trust me, as I trusted you.
How can the OSA Analyzers be sure it’s the same person using the same handle? Some of the handles are generic. Or even if it really is who they think it is?
The OSA Incsters send spam out about poster handle identities but I’m told they finger identities wrong. Maybe they’re being set up by a smarter cat who knows they only way an OSA Incster can point to a handle’s identity would be if they :::shudder::: broke the law heh heh OOops. (but of course, we know the “Church” of Scient-Incology would never cheat or break the law
Chug that fully works would be quite spectacular!
Davey, OSA, and to all whom it may concern: Yes, I have now been given permission to reveal OTDT’s identity…….you have probably suspected it…..it is Shelley Miscavige. A small tablet samsung was smuggled to her some time ago and she posts whenever she can get some “alone time” (usually only in the bathroom of course and even alone time there is not easy to get). Watch it Davey….she thinks she knows “every inch of your body” (though it’s based on some long ago recall….before you became so close to your motorcycles and Tom Cruise…..not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Oh Davey…just in case you think my last post about OTDT and Shelley was a “misdirection”………well, maybe it is someone else you see EVERY SINGLE DAY. As you meet with us….uhm….I mean “them”…..here’s my hint: ask yourself about EACH of them “Does this person REALLY like me?”……”Would this person really like to see me out of here?” Heck, Davey…..it could even be me. Watch out.
Bruce, thank you for providing numerous real-time examples of characteristics laid out in this very blog including “Name dropping in a sort of creepy way” in your first comment. And you didn’t answer Karen’s questions, particularly violating the point about reserved criticism of Miscavige. All you needed to do was state your opinion. Instead, you beat around the bush and ran sideways into the weeds.
Furthermore, if your comments on this thread “stir things up” then something is wrong. Everyone please take note: Itsa actually BLOWS charge; it doesn’t “stir things up.”
People who post on this blog feel joy and a greater sense of freedom as a result. But not you.
Marty asked for no witch hunts. So you put on a witch costume, light yourself on fire, and then run through our midst with your arms flapping? If you are not a DM spy already I’m sure DM will hire you in a flash. You already have the complete behavior down to a tee.
It seems as thought several individuals have granted you tentative acceptance. Perhaps they weren’t paying close attention. Perhaps tomorrow you will have better luck and posting here won’t drag you down so.
By the way, if any of this doesn’t make sense it’s because I just ate a bad taco, snorted some glue and had a brain operation.
Normally I don’t post my observations on plants. But in this case, considering the subject and here’s this guy invalidating by example the very things we are talking about, I thought I’d speak up.
You can vindicate yourself any time you please. Just answer Karen’s questions and use the word “Miscavige” in your answers. It ain’t hard to do.
these guys get a little trigger happy bruce. it all comes out in the wash, tho i was kinda sad to see you challenged… thanks for being so forthright. so sorry for your loss, all the more reason for these people behind the stories band together.
i really admire what you have to say about easy answers. the truth may be simple, but i never heard it was easy. haven’t seen it easy lately either;)
Thanks for the tip. Think I should change my handle?
You need to meet (almost any of) the Indie Day Invitees, and especially the organizers.
Bruce – a suicide is devastating in a family. The suicide of a child – unimaginable.
I’m so sorry and glad you have found friends here.
I’m thinking you either didn’t read my whole response (which you comment contradicts) or are a very nasty person. Hope it’s the first.
Thanks you for your kind thoughts. I think I need to get my Ex (Wesley’s mother) involved with this site. I’m sure Annie would have a lot more to say about it.
Me too……MANY pleasant afternoons strolling down Royal St. in New Orleans and stopping by at the “Blue Dog” (name Tiffany) Rodrigue gallery. Those paintings by the way are SPECTACULAR in person.
One that developed policies in this regard in the “James Bond sixties” when “Man from UNCLE” was a popular TV show and “Secret Agent Man” (by the great Johnny Rivers) was on top of the pop charts. Life imitating “art”. Or religion imitating art. Why just have a church, when you can also have fun playing spies?
I enjoyed seeing your name today. It made the sun shine a little brighter.
If Mitch wants his eternal freedom he can report directly to The Courseroom. He can go all the way up the Bridge without the constant regging and threats to his eternal freedom.
The Last time I saw him we drilled TRs. We can do it again and he can leave his fear elsewhere. I invite him to come find out what true freedom really is.
John Aaron Williams
If he was outed as a bot you would probably be the first to say ” I knew it all along.”
Where did my smiley face for Joe go?
Phillipp Mitchell, your friends are out here! You will be surprised at whom is out here. Come on over and look. Scientology is happening out here, not within the church. You have a beautiful wife and children. Grab them while you still can and dump DM.
Lana Mitchell, keep up the good work of holding your own council! Your husband is a good being, he just needs a little help to look at the facts. It will work out in the end.
BTW, “firstname.lastname@example.org” is sending out spam email, referring people to a fake Marty website. Do not click on links in emails from people you do not know. Each time you receive comm from a plant using a hushmail, report it to Hushmail’s abuse/spam hotline:
Stevie don’t play.
“Which of you is Spartacus?”
“I am Spartacus.”
Several men beging to step forward, each saying, “I am Spartacus.”
“I am Spartacus.”
“I am Spartacus.”
History is made.
Movies are made.
Life is made.
I am Spartacus.
I don’t know how to embed youtube anymore.
Catdaddy ‘splained it to me once, but I forget.
What I find truly sad and terrible is that all these people who have prostituted their very souls to David Miscavige in a desperate bid for Eternal Salvation have already lost it anyway. Nobody is going up McSavage’s now thoroughly squirrelled “Bridge”, *EVER*!
We free beings outside the Co$ are their only hope, yet see how they vilify us because the Terror Midget demands it ?
Michael A. Hobson
Geez, I probably should have been so terse. But this shit gets old.
Find the clip you want and copy that address and paste it in the comment box. It will show up after you send the comment/video.
For a real thorough grasp of what that psychosis is I recommend Case Supervisor Series 22 PSYCHOSIS. This IS David Miscavige, daily, continuously determined to destroy, overtly, covertly and in his case in a generalized stopping across life.
Oh yeah, he’s qualified for the term. Eminently.
The really cool part is that once you understand the actual basis of his or any other ‘psychosis’ whether specific to an area or spread out across all sorts of areas as in DM’s case, then you are that much more able to ride at a point of being cause over it. It can even be handled, if Dave would ever sit still long enough to get an entering wedge into that nasty business he’s got between his ears.
Alas, I think he’ll take the craven coward’s way out…
Even if he does, from here on out, his game is done. It IS a whole new universe, from here on out.
Marty or Mike,
What ever happened to Tommy Davis?
Too late for me Steve. I forwarded his mail back to him and let him know I was starting the OT VI course this week.
But, I digress.
Bruce Bruce Bruce.
Take a deep breath of oxygen.
Thoughtful has done more for the Indie community that almost anyone (I am quoting Marty Rathbun). This is his website. It has 100-200 readers on line 24/7/365.
I simply asked you 3 questions directly on David Miscavige.
Then Thoughtful wrote this~~
You can vindicate yourself any time you please. Just answer Karen’s questions and use the word “Miscavige” in your answers. It ain’t hard to do.
The challenge is that you do not say in black and white anything negative about DM.
That is the #1 RED FLAG, proven over and over and over.
An ability to come right out and say
DM is a sadist and his atrocities leave me aghast.
DM is a pyschopath posing as a religious leader.
That kind of thing.
Once you write like that it is obvious to all you are not an OSA plant. You see, an OSA plant would never say ANYTHING derogatory about dear Leader.
Are you unable to say in black and white your feelings, thoughts and opinions of the way Miscagive is as a personality and how he is running the show ?
Were you Joanne Clark’s husband, and was your daughter up at the Int Ranch as staff up there?
If so, to the above, I remember you in the 1980s when you were at ASHO. I seem to recall your daughter, forget her name, was Int Ranch staff.
When I was in the Int RPF at the Int Ranch (1996-2000), your daughter at some point in those years wanted to route off ranch staff, and somehow temporarily joined the Int RPF for a very short time, then left.
Despite all the stupid RPF stuff, the work on the Int Ranch was fun work for me.
We always had trouble with the coyotes eating things, like the crops, and sometimes staff dogs disappeared, and once the kids at the Ranch left the goats out, and some goats got eaten by the coyotes.
The Ranch staff, Dan Pryzbylski, for a time Barbara Tompkins, Martin Habschied, Andre Taboyoyan’s son (forgot his name for the moment), his wife, and others I forget, all kept the ranch going pretty well.
Dan P I think hired a neighbor to shoot coyotes, and we in the RPF (me and another guy), buried them.
One day your daughter got a coyote with a shovel, believe it or not, and I helped bury that one too.
Beautiful animals coyotes, but they keep eating things that we preferred they didn’t eat.
Isn’t it ironic that Katie Holmes just got Star magazine to cough up damage$ for libel, while she and her strutting hubby Tom Cruise are funding and endorsing goons to libel and smear people they want to manipulate and silence through these OSA. Money motivated, but add with malice to OSA Scientology.
Louanne is even in there! Jumping Hypocrits, It’s Libelers Being Self Righteous!
A comment on savescientology.com. This is for Mike Ellis. Some years back I wrote to you upon you sending me on Senior HCO letterhead confirmation that I had completed A-E and ADDING steps to it, which I pointed out made it A-F, then G, then H. At I, I was done with the arbitraries. I had exhausted all possible within org (and without as I wrote to the lawyers at CST and RTC as well) avenues to deal with the suppression I encountered under David Miscavige and AT HIS BEHEST.
In the letter I wrote to you I pointed out, clearly, that the Church was in violation of the secular documents that exist for CST, RTC and CSI. That’s why I wrote to the lawyers at CST, to implore them to wear their hat and deal with the insane departures from the Estate Planning and Trust Instruments LRH put in place that were being perpetrated by David Miscavige and YOU Mike Ellis acting for him, officially.
This was ignored. I was ‘dead-filed’.
Well, you dumb ass twits. I sure didn’t stay quiet now did I! Hence, savescientology.com.
Even now, as I tell you this, you DON’T GET IT. Well, you will. Trust me. You will.
Hey Chuck….”There used to be a whole series of intelligence plus and minus stats, OSA kept, and I wondered WHAT causes them the worst downstats?”
You’ve been gone a longer time than I, but I noticed something going on at the base that may answer this question to some degree. It was something I noticed while I was realizing the place was full of BS. I finally noticed, that no matter WHAT my graph on the wall said (line going up or line going down) it didn’t matter if I/we had not gotten something done for Miscavige that he was beating up on my seniors about. It just didn’t matter at all. If it was screaming affluence but some submission wasn’t done and “COB was waiting for it…” you were treated like scum, the downest of the downstats. If your stat was truly down or crashed, but you complied to something and got something up to the office, you were fine and could walk tall. (Until it got rejected of course.)
So, the answer to your question, for OSA or any unit these days, is some unspoken yet agreed-upon statistic of Number of Times Miscavige Is Pleased vs. Number of Times He’s Pissed Off. With waaaaay more penalty points for the pissing off compared to the few points you can get for some kind of ack from him. I’m not trying to be funny. It’s true. It has nothing to do with the real stat of a real post.
There is a corollary here….who is going to report their stats honestly anymore anyway? Why bother? Especially OSA. If OSA doesn’t knee-jerk enough when beckoned, the numbers and lines on the paper don’t matter. Might as well try to cover your butt somehow and at least make the graph look good. Just a bunch of guys on such a compromise of their own integrity already that they can no longer confront the truth to much of anything.
Like I say in closing my blog entry sometimes: You guys who feel a need to do that CYA stuff, or feel you are having to do things that are so screwed up that you can’t even believe you are doing them to other human beings….”All I am trying to teach you to do is LOOK.” (LRH paraphrased from the Scn Effective Knowledge lecture.) You can always start to open your eyes and look. It’s not too late for ya.
Star Magazine at least presents itself as entertainment. It doesn’t pretend to be a Church while hiding a slime-bot factory. Star Magazine doesn’t have a fraction of the contemptable malice that the OSA Scientology blogs and sneaky tactics have.
Add to the list of security, malicious libelous stuff popping up? filed and reported: Scientology Inc. Libelers, OSA. Revealing the slimey minds of those cranking out the lie machine 😛
I’ve noted you still haven’t said anything against Miscavige but now I’m “a nasty person.” Well, sure enough — to trolls and DM bots I am indeed the poster child of nasty.
Now I’m adding missed withhold to the long list of crazy outpoints that you are displaying on this blog.
And though I didn’t commend on it earlier, I’ll point out the pathetic sympathy ploy cleverly designed to back anyone off from questioning your “cred.” It doesn’t read right.
Maybe you don’t know this, but David Miscavige personally reinstated the disconnection policy that LRH personally CANCELED. So your son committed suicide as a result of David Miscavige’s direct squirrel off-policy order, truly horrific! Yet you have nothing negative so say about David Miscavige — the very person responsible for your son’s death and the very core of what this blog is all about.
Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
Bring on the missed withhold phenomena and be even more exposed. Or answer Karen’s questions since YOU brought up the subject in the first place.
These polecats’ game includes mostly of covert activity, with scanty contact details. Perhaps the light of day will send them scurrying forth.
How about putting a rogue’s gallery on your website? Call it the Kool Aid Addict 101.
“Also people need to watch for what they say to even their closest trusted friends —some PI may have befriended that person and is getting every thing you say, from your innocent friends.”
Personally I feel that more communication, rather than less, leads to better survival. I understand the issue with “vigilance” but when “lack of trust of even one’s closest friends” becomes the operating stance, one is headed for lowered survival. It may well be true that someone close to you is not operating in your best interests, either knowingly or unknowingly, but I would not recommend withdrawing ARC from any part of your dynamics until a REAL enemy is identified.
I understand that situations can exist that encourage one to become paranoid, but I honestly feel that following that path leads eventually to nowhere but hurt.
Perhaps easy for me to say because I really do not feel that Scientology Inc. can actually do me any significant harm. Sure, they can mess with my dynamics a bit, but my integrity is IN and they are powerless to harm me spiritually at this point.
In any case… Do well in your handling of your own situation.
Who does OSA hire to write slander spins on those comical blogs? sex deviants?
It sounds like the Scientology slime balls have been wanting to do one brilliant babe — and they even lifted a photograph of her from The WOW Report five (5 !) years ago and claim it’s Ms porch this week? Hahahaha!
look at the date! 2006
Look I can see fantasizing about these women but these guys are going about it all wrong!
(Just a wild guess, I don’t think either of these beautiful ladies would have reciprocated their …uh… admiration …) Sure guys, I bet you believe all the girls want you. OSA — more delusional by the day! hahaha!!!!!
Just copy the URL from the address bar on top of the YouTube page for the video you want to show and paste it in the comments box on the blog.
It might be a good idea to keep a copy of this post handy as future reference.
You want to be able to spot OSA ops as fast as possible in order to limit the damage they can do.
Because OSA ops are what they are they have to do certain things and can’t do other things and by that you will know them.
Since they are under the control and orders of DM, they can’t do just anything they want and a pattern with presents itself.
As an added note:
All you have to do is look at PDC, VSD, WDAHs Student Comps SS basically any delivery stats and if they’re in the toilet they pretty well tell the whole sordid story.
OK. That was pretty much a “given”. But the alternative is “HIDING”. That is a pretty direct route DOWN the scale. Let them play their silly little games. Let them waste hundreds of hours accumulating files. Let them totally introvert on their own paranoia.
For us here… I highly recommend pursuing “optimum survival across the dynamics.
Here is a policy that I came across just yesterday, while rummaging through my files.
HCO PL 15 May 1966
ATTACKS ON SCIENTOLOGY
(cancels all sec Eds and Pol Ltrs to the contrary)
Having had some time to think this over and having studied the matter with great care, I have isolated the most successful response to meeting any and all attacks on Scientology, it’s organizations and Scientologists and as of this date this becomes policy.
ADVOCATE TOTAL FREEDOM
That is the Policy – Advocate Total Freedom.
There are technical reasons for this which an auditor will recognize. To discharge later incidents from a mind, one must get the first or basic incident of that kind. In this case the basic aberrated incident was the suppression of freedom of the being. Just before that there must have been freedom. Thus advocating total freedom hits the true basic incident.
This is also the basic purpose of Scientology and the basic purpose of people, so it all agrees well.
This is also the easiest to do. It is easier than fighting Parliaments, or building up cases against people who attack us.
The only liability of using this policy (total freedom) is that it releases energy(a Scientologist knows this as “blowing locks”) which looks disturbing but is weakened.
No other approach we have used worked. We are alive not because we fought but because we went on doing Scientology in spite of anything.
So never advertise an attack. Just advocate more strongly “Total Freedom!” and show Scientology can attain it for the individual.
Careful summary of our past actions in the face of attacks and an analysis of various changes in human history show that the best and only effective thing we did or anyone ever did was advocate freedom. The precise practice of Scientology obtains total freedom so never advertise anything else but total freedom and the Scientology services and steps that bring it about. Courses, processing are the gradient scale to total freedom.
That’s the answer no nation or person can stand up to—if we keep saying it long and loud. SCIENTOLOGY IS THE ROAD TO TOTAL FREEDOM.
Used in argument one can invent reasons that baffle the attacking agency or person – but all these reasons should add up to everyone has rights to total freedom.
I think this alone can move mountains.
L. RON HUBBARD
So I for one would like to say that I personally advocate “Total Freedom” .
MY freedom. Your freedom. Our freedom.
RJ — Those werent included.
Your name seems familiar to me for some reason.
First I’d like to say that I totally understand.
Secondly I’d also like to welcome you here.
Thirdly being a group of individuals we all have our own distinct viewpoint on things that might not agree with someone else’s point of view.
Like for example we may not agree on the why the Org or what I call the Government Approved and Tax Exempt Squirrel Group is so fucked up.
Just that it is.
And that its time to get the fuck outta Dodge.
So again welcome to the bright side of Scientology once again.
“Trust me, as I trusted you.”
You make a lot of typos for a Qual guy.
It is harrassment with the intention to introvert you.
After all, you are going to be on a PANEL revealing some stunning information to a large crowd soon…..
Gee I wonder why Mike?
You beautiful son of a bitch!
Now that is what I call INSOUCIANCE!
Thanks for your posts, you really do a terrific job and a huge responsibility and I thank you for that. Bit off topic but I received an interesting email from a friend of mine who recently put up a couple of ex Flag Sea Org members who routed out a few months ago and stayed with my friend.
My friend is 99% sure that these guys said the following to her….”It got pretty tough after the captain died and the new guy took over and then we routed out”….The captain meaning Debbie Cook.
It kind of got me wondering about what SO members are told when someone leaves and how much do they lie. I know the story in Brisbane and probably the whole of ANZO through WISE say that the reason Tom and Nicole broke up was because Nicole had an affair on Tom.
Maybe we could ask all your commenters what PR lies they were told about people and expose and hopefully get some more truth happening out there. Just a suggestion not sure if it would have value at all but I for one would like to know if others heard the 2 stories above and is it a local lie or planet wide, if its planet wide then it surely comes from the Top.
Steve and Karen,
How would you talk to him if he were you pc? It took Marty years to unwind and LRH developped gradients to improve things. I’d be most surprised if someone new would not change viewpoints by reading this blog.
I was Sam Hitchcock then. I was pulled from the UK by KOT Int (Red Van Dyke) and posted as D of T 4A under Bob Klima.
I think you were posted in Qual.
If you can’t place me it’s probably because I was already in trouble when I arrived and it wasn’t long before I took a magnificent swan dive onto the PAC RPF.
I remember you were a kind person which for me doesn’t fit with the concept of your being a plant.
This may not be true for others. Then again that’s all part of the wonderful woof and warp of this tapestry of unique individuals who think for themselves and won’t be swayed from making their own personal decisions or forced into group think.
The correct target here is OSA messing with the theta comm lines, not the ‘gun shy’ Indies (many of whom still have open wounds and aren’t about to go looking for more betrayal).
If nothing else this is an incredibly interesting thread which bears testament to the fact that the OSA tactics do not work and in fact, fall down rather easily in the face of real, open and honest communication.
I’ve made the monumental mistake of trusting the wrong people a few times and it stings. But I’m still alive and moving onwards and upwards with valuable lessons learned.
“Isn’t it ironic that Katie Holmes just got Star magazine to cough up damage$ for libel, while she and her strutting hubby Tom Cruise are funding and endorsing goons to libel and smear people they want to manipulate and silence through these OSA. Money motivated, but add with malice to OSA Scientology.”
*Q: Is Tommy Davis sleeping with Shelly Miscavige these days?!?
Just for you Joe 🙂
Hey! Did you just PIE FACE me???? 😉
My comm was based on the idea that Bruce was using a fake name.
When one has decided to change groups and is attempting to join a new one there is a condition to be applied. Part of the problem Bruce has run into is the fact that when one is leaving a suppressive group and seeking acceptance into a new group, an orderly progression up through the conditions would be the way to go before asking for trust (it isn’t necessarily ‘doubt’ – it could be a lower one). Many of us have in some way aided and abetted a true SP through our negligence and find ourselves naturally moving up through Doubt and Liability, arriving finally to the point where we can be ‘trusted’ in the new group. This brings with it the reward of being able to be fully part of the group, giving and receiving friendship and support and feeling deserving of love and trust again as opposed to remaining an outsider who can do nothing more than be a spectator having no group of his own anymore. It also brings with it (in my personal experience) the most incredible case resurgence and the restoration of personal integrity.
A person who has a back off from doing this would be well served to at least consider applying the correct LRH tech to resolve the matter rather than shying away from trouble.
Step 6 is usually the sticking point on the Doubt Formula as one may not want the ‘hassle’ that may come as a result of ‘announcing the fact publicly to both sides’. This causes one to hang-up at Doubt. Which LRH covers as follows:
On somebody who hangs up at Doubt, the Ethics Officer or whoever is handling him should check for a PTS condition or false data.
It can be one or the other or both.
A PTS condition is of course located and handled as per the existing materials on PTS tech.
Getting rid of the guy’s false data would have to be done by someone that had checked out on the HCOB on it (HCOB 7 Aug. 79, FALSE DATA STRIPPING).
When the ethics conditions formulas are correctly and standardly applied, the results can be nothing short of miraculous.
With this discovery you’ll get the results smoother and faster.
L. Ron Hubbard
HCOPL 18 December 1982 ETHICS CONDITIONS: HANG-UP AT DOUBT
If it sounds like I’m preaching or lecturing, that isn’t the intention. I’ve simply found in my life that doing what Ron says to do does bring about the results promised and I prefer that my friends obtain ‘miraculous’ results and go free than remain held hostage in a lower condition to an ‘organization’ that would do anything to prevent a person from becoming stronger and brighter.
Good point Laura Ann.
Bruce, perhaps you could tell us this –
Jeff Hawkins on his blog identified up to 8 different ‘types’ of SP Declares DM and his minions handed out. So I’m wondering which type were you Declared to be? Or which type ‘they’ considered you to be?
Int Base SP
Here’s Jeff’s post about it:
Loseranne has returned to the comments sections again!!!!!
(Probably after a stint in the RPF)
Very nicely said Bruce.
Hi Richard. We’ve definitely met – was I your DofP at SHF in the mid-80s? I was the cocky one harassing all the PCs about their sessionability. There were lots of PCs in those days. We routinely did 150 WDAHs a week. Wonder what it is these days??? Drop me a line email@example.com
Yes it seems OBL’s former “friends” weren’t so ….er….friendly this time round.
But I wouldn’t worry Dave…..
Really I wouldn’t.
thank you for the security tip. But otherwise- when I revealed my identity, I line charged for hours.
And for the slave master and his underlings- and for everybody who dares to LOOK on the “forbidden” sites of the Internet (by the way:VWD),
it can be “strung together” of what I think of the abuses and the Human Rights violations.
And the Bridge to Freedom- to get out of slavery- got perverted to a bridge into more slavery. And some “disaffected” SO members, or may be sb who only didn´t have the “right” facial expression/pie face, are under detention and are held like slaves, as reported. Off course “voluntarily” to get “rehabilitated”. Some “voluntarily” for years; yeah, voluntarily my ass.
Sorry, but I can´t restrain myself to post this again, also inspired by the posting by Windwalker of the reference about “Freedom”.
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS
* Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of persons.
* No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
*No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
*No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
*Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or believe, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
*Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers.
OK let’s start again.
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
You are amongst friends.
Steve may take a bit more convincing so in your next message, you need to state emphatically that DM is a gutless, spineless twat and then we’re well on the way to establishing some ARC… Just kidding. But let’s do show our new guest some manners eh? If Bruce is for real then he’s taken some serious flak (from me too) for the ‘sin’ asking for our trust without proof of good intentions.
Sorry for being a jerk Bruce 😦
If you turn out to be a plant after my heartfelt wishes then I’ll eat my words and smack Martin Padfield around for encouraging me 😀
Little Davie might also be found between the pages of Hervey Cleckley’s book, “The Mask of Sanity.” It has been years since I read this book but the term “psychopath,” comes to mind.
I sometimes wonder (not for long though) if DM ever looks over his shoulder at his life and ponders the situation. If he ever did what conclusions would he draw? I suspect, but this is only a suspicion, that he would say to himself, “I was insufficiently ruthless with Marty and Mike and the others. They imposed themselves on my good nature and took advantage of me. No more Mister Nice Guy for me!” Of course he would not use these words, he would use Scientology terms but I think you get my drift.
Wow! What a memory! Impressive! I’m chuffed.
Dir Comm, 24/7, barring cat-naps, at your service, sir!
Sorry, Mike that I don’t remember your name. The only name I remember was Ken Urquhart’s. He was amazing, to me anyway. When I got to the ship and was posted, I found a reel-to-reel player in some nearby kludge, and some tapes. When I played the tapes, they weren’t Ron, but Mozart Quintets, and were brilliant. I played them all the time. One time, I was delivering comm to Ken, and noticed he had rows of cassettes of Mozart, and we had a little chat, but I was in awe of him and the the other top guys and gals, that I didn’t push my luck. Later on, I discovered his fabulous wit, he was able to deliver a joke with such a straight face, had me laughing for days after.
Diana used to practice Mozart, and she was good, too.
The Rock Concert, yes, in the Town Hall. I asked to join the Apollo Allstars, being a bit of a plucker myself, but I guess as I’d only recently arrived, they didn’t recruit me. LRH used to coach the band, using his messengers to relay detailed advices, and it was staggering how broad and detailed Ron’s grasp of music was, giving precise notation via the messenger, and even giving the origin of some obscure African rhythms, and urging the guys in the band not to get these rhythms mixed up.
I did the EPF on arrival, ‘routing’ the decks, in the sunshine. It was a happy gradient, for me, anyway.
Ron’s brief appearance at the New Year’s Eve Ball was so great. He really did have a terrific sense of humour, and dressed up in his cowboy gear. Happy days.
There was fantastic comadierie at all levels, a real sense of aesthetics too, and fun, like the card schools, morning excercise, shore leave, and so on.
Not like today in peanutbrain’s control freakery, paranoid, watch your back, psychosis crazed, I’m gonna rule the world madhouse.
…Also (sorry – Sam in a particularly opinionated mood today)
In my (not so humble) opinion, anyone who would attempt to discourage someone from applying the Doubt Formula fully in this situation (such as ‘friends’ still connected to the ‘church’) would only do so out of personal interests to keep that person under control.
The way out is the way through.
There are no good reasons not to become fully De-PTSed and go free.
Lana, the above video of you rocks! You are such an impressive spokesperson for your business and industry and have got it going ON. Mitch, I gotta agree with others here … you’re just about to miss the boat. Jump NOW!
Is that like “sleeping with the fishes”?
Thoughtful, thank you for sharing this story. I have great respect for Ken Delderfield. I love that datum that he came up with while studying the Key to Life materials. LRH wrote about government hampering American business managers with all of their restrictions and requirements, and I have seen the flight of American business overseas to other countries for many years, and especially in my own community. Your relay of Ken’s comment made me realize that the businessmen of America are going to other places around the world because there is more freedom there to do business without all the interference, along with inordinately cheaper labor!
Freedom is a universal motivation, in personal life and in business!
Richard. Wonderful to put a face and circumstances to the name! Nice to see you again. Yes, those were happy times. The regimented lockstep life was not even a thought in anyone’s mind in those days. It was hard work, but it was wild, random, crazy, enjoyable and different. That was a crew that knew how to have a good time and let loose. Christmas was 3 days of 24/7 partying, with people crashed where they dropped until they aroused and started again. A 24/7 hgh stakes poker game in the aft lounge. It took 3 days to recover and then it started again for New Years! And libs each week was a microcosm of the end of the year knock-out. And I look at what the top of Scientology/SO has become and it is a direct comparison — that was the flair and elan vital of LRH. Today is the repressed control and fear of happiness that epitomizes Miscavige.
Martin, I LOVE the way you are IN THEIR FACE, literally. I have seen one of your videos. You have that confront and ability to do a full frontal assault to make them show where they stand in regard to you. You have my admiration and respect for your courage. It is amazing how cowardly they are with you. They really don’t know how to deal with you. It is my observation that when one deals with them the way that you have, one becomes a LOOSE CANNON, and they become afraid of you because you have the confront and courage to do JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. They seem to fear this more than anything else. So the more overt you are, the more covert they become. I used to think that was operational strategy, but now if just looks like plain ol’ FEAR!!!
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
Much love, Catherine von Ach
Bruce, Thanks for answering this earlier on this thread. ml, Laura Ann
Thoughtful: A perfect example of pacifism …
You have the courage to say it as you see it – even commenting on something I thought but couldn’t quite say – how BC’s mention of his sons suicide seemed to be an attempt to “stop pickin’ on me”.
You didn’t then go on to call him names or point to his character as mean. Or engage in anger.
Just continuing to mention dm as the problem and BC’s apparent unwillingness to acknowledge this.
Pacifism is the opposition to war AND/OR violence. Which I take to mean our personal responses to others in a violent way.
You’ve responded to BC without violence. Clearly.
Just repeating your observations while he calls you names.
I bow to your bravery and sharp observations and hope BC can bring himself to see WHO created the environment of current disconnection and other travesties.
What is his name? d a v i d … come on Bruce you can say it …
This is an blog about what spies do. He suddenly shows up and out of the blue starts denying he’s a spy? That is right out of Science of Survival and a dead giveaway. (i.e., “They have a “sales pitch” they deliver to everyone, whether asked for or not.”) Bad timing if nothing else.
If you want to see how someone real arrives to this blog, read the post of poet13c below. His first words were, “Hi, folks! I’m sticking my head over the parapet, and it feels fresh and exciting!” He’s not confused, getting stirred up, wanting to know who people are, telling everyone he’s not a spy, name dropping — “Tom M, you would remember me” and “Ask Haydn.”
What? He knows indimate details about us — i.e. that Haydn is an OL — but he’s still to green to understand the most basic thing about this blog that it is about the corruption of all things Scientology by David Miscavige?
He’s had a death in his family. All he had to do is clearly connect that dot to Miscavige. And he refused to do it so far.
Well — hey, we’ve ALL lost people. Who hasn’t. I’m not playing the sympathy card. That’s not what this is about. It’s not about being a victim. It’s not about holding hands. It’s about exposing a madman and a murderer and Keeping Scientology Working.
If the guy won’t do that, he has no business here. He’s either cooperating with them, working for them, or he’s too PTS to be of any use to anyone including most of all himself.
But here in this living laboratory we have a live, breathing example of exactly what this article is about. I’m making an example of him because he asked for it and because I thought it might be educational.
Of course anyone confronting him is going to be made to look bad — that just goes with the territory and is part of that little phrase, “constant alertness and willingness to fight back.”
Now I’m very very bad because I am withholding sympathy for his son. Actually, I’m not withholding sympathy for his son. I care enough to expose the killer of his son, but he doesn’t.
The trust placed in us by the human race is that if someone causes the death of another person, we bring the killer to justice. The trust is not “we all sit around and hold hands with the victim’s parent who refuses to do anything about it himself.” Miscavige personally reinstalled the disconnection policy in violation of LRH’s personal cancellation of it, and it caused many suicides not just one. And this guy is too weak to say it?
Go back and read what he’s said so far. He could turn this off in an instant. All he’s got to do is say, “I think Miscavige is a criminal.” Or “Miscavige killed my boy.” So far, he’s avoided it. That is the pattern.
The situation is rough. You can’t trust people who will not prove their allegiance with a simple statement about DM when OSA’s prime directive is to break up our comm lines by all means possible including black ops, informants, third party, false reports, suppressive actions, etc.
The good news is, clearing up your reputation is easy to do. If the person won’t do it — you can’t trust them. Tough situation. Tough times. Grow up.
Everyone here lost people. Everyone. That’s not what this movement is about. It’s about doing something effective to protect remainder of the human race from a madman. Because unless we do something, all the rest will be harmed. They are already being harmed — they are being denied Scientology.
As LRH said, “Don’t ever think that a monopoly of this subject is a safe thing to have. It’s not safe. It’s not safe for man; it’s not safe for this universe.”
Bruce, The strategy is to have no strategy. Hive mentality conquers reptilian uber-centralized thinking every time. Walnut-brained dinosaurs could not compete with geologic catastrophes or smaller, independent, nurturing mammals. Like us! Working frontal lobes are an automatic disqualification in some organizational settings.
Sam, This is an excellent write up. And accurate.
Absolutely 100% accurate observation. The “stats” meant nothing at Int.
Jim, that guy just got confused. You did A-E, but his senior thought you were doing a full hat A – I, and then someone else in the office suggested a new check on A – J, and well….A-E…AI…A-J……too many letters spinning him in from too many people. Maybe you’re lucky no one in the ethics office was doing the alphabet drill (from KTL?) or you might have been put on an A-Z cycle. What bozos. These guys are the Keystone Kops of the “justice” business. Only they ruin lives, so it’s more sad than funny of course.
Mike and Richard, What a great write up — it so captures and illustrates the chasm: where Scientology is today vs. where it could have been / should be (and where we are now taking it ala the Independent Scientology Steamroller).
Okay, OSA, here is your hint as to the identity of OTDT, Deep Fax, et al: you might not know this but an Italian (hint) inventor named Marconi came up with a thing called “radio” about 120 years ago. On this thing called radio today, there are advertisements for something called “beer.” One of those brands of beer advertised is called “Dos Equis.” The copywriter who writes the advertisements for Dos Equis is OTDT. Get your guys onto it, pronto.
You got it Ralph. And regarding the plastic smiles, forced laughter (think Tommy Davis) is a 1.1 trait ref: Science of Survival.
That’s right Mike. Here’s DM’s bridge: prostitute your soul, receive squirrel tech, lose everything, go so PTS that you get cancer and die.
Hi Sam. Remember you well; we used to smoke cigs with Jason outside the Qual window. Last I knew of you was that you blew with Dominguiz (spelling?) Didn’t know you came back. Sent you a friend request on FB.
This is supposed to be
Okay, my hat is off.
If you’d real ALL my posts you’d have seen that I have denounced him several times. But for the record, David Miscavige is an SP, total asshole and all-round JERK!
And I think it’s time that you take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you aren’t becoming him.
I personally know from experience the lies told about people who leave are profound. For example, I have a friend who left in the early 1990s. She made a desperate escape and when she made it home, although she had neglected her parents for years, they were kind enough to help her start life over from scratch even giving her a little money to live on. That was spun by the King of Squirrels and Co. into “her parents offered her money to leave Scientology and she took the money and sold everyone out.” I don’t know if that is clear just how vile that lie was, but “vile” is the word.
It’s like a rape victim fleeing to a safe house where she is given succor. And the rapist tells everyone, “They bribed her to betray us and she accepted.”
Yeah, this happens when programms are worked out in a chairborne division,
and no professional practitioner carries them out. If I just see this stupid operation base: asking straight questions about plans, my hair stood on end.
Clever eval MM&S 🙂
Hi Chuck. I was at ASHO-F during this period and there were no other Bruce Clark’s there. But what you describe here is not me. I was never at Int. My wife Ann (Also ASHO-F) had a son, named Wesley. No daughter. I love the shovel story tho.
Thanks for the tips! You guys are taking the brunt of this, and I know it ain’t easy.
Well done OTDT and SaveScientology.com for making the Most Wanted list!
OTDT, you are a hell of a satirist. Keep duplicating COB like you are, and maybe he will as-is! You certainly are missing withholds… which is funny, because DM’s withholds are not missed in our universe, they are FOUND.
Hello Mike and Marty and Friends:
To first identify myself as a Not Osa Bot (NOB) I invite you to check the included link, (Scientology Enemies List), which was published not long after 1982, where you will find my name, Alex Castillo and of course my then wife Maude Castillo, who used to be LRH’s personal photographer for a time on board the apollo. http://www.xenu.net/archive/enemy_names/enemy_list.html.
Along with our names you will find many, many other people and groups who were, during 1974-1979, effectively expanding Standard scientology around the world. Many you would have know personally.
I joined a Dianetics Group in 1968 and became an HDA (Hubbard Dianetics Auditor), then joined the SO in 1971, joined the Flag Land Base in 1975, just after the move. After all my intense training and auditing, my job at Flag was always Org/Continental evaluator at the Flag Mgmt Bu/IMO. As I remember, my team was good. Amongst a couple of other people previous to him, Kerry Gleeson (he was an OK guy) was the CO and I worked under the same roof with Cathy Rinder and a bunch of other evaluators like Sam Liccardi, while Suzzette was in charge of AVU (Eval authorization) and Diana was CS6 in charge of Div Sixs International. The last person I spoke to, 2 hours before we drove out of Clearwater was Mike Rinder. You may or may not remember our encounter?
If anyone wants to tell me how Scientology prospers when it is delivered standardly, I am a true witness of that fact. During my 5 years of continuos experience evaluating orgs. While an evaluator, I witnessed and thankfully contributed to, the expansion of Scientology around the world. Only Orgs with dangerous looking stats or suddenly very good stats were evaluated, or if reports of out-tech or out-ethics were coming in. It used to be great to, for example discover that WDAH crashed in an Org, investigate and find that the Lead auditor had been the subject of harsh ethics by a green, keen new EO, get the problem sorted, get the auditor back in the chair and the WDAH rockets out of NE.
But I didn’t just sit at Flag reading data and stats and making decisions. I also went on a lot of missions to orgs, both in the US and europe and I saw the real thing folks, lots of smiley people milling around, courserooms full with students looking purposeful, auditing rooms with “in-session” signs, etc, etc. Things were looking up then. Of course, the world was NOT going down while “we” were going up, as the Apollo Trouppe chanted.
At that time, almost every person I was working with at the IMO (International Management Org) was quite contentedly helping expand Scn around the world. When David Mayo came for the grand opening of NOTs the FSO (Fort Harrison) was full of people. And they were not there with their hands in their wallets paying a fortune waiting for the Sec Checker to finish and give them their all clear. What I was seeing, from 1968 to 1979 was REAL expansion being produced mainly by a growing number of NEW people being interested in AUDITING and becoming Auditors. Or Comm Courses filled with individuals and many time entire families.The number of new people being interested in Admin tech was nothing compared to the number of people who wanted auditing or wanted to learn how to audit others. “Handle the case” was the main target. From Flag’s point of view, no out tech could be tolerated, on penalty of hitting the RPF if you didn’t spot and handle the out tech. Julie Gillespie (Mayo), with whom I used to work in the same office, could tell you a lot of stories, since for some time she was CS4, in charge of the Tech internationally.
So, looking back I remember I sensed the change when Miscavige started manipulating things without anyone knowing that it wasn’t LRH making the decisions anymore. The change that was pretty obvious was that the CMO was blatanly disregarding LRH’s basic policies on Ethics and Justice. I was not aware of LRH’s condition because anything to do with “over the rainbow” or the location of the Old Man, was supposed to be “highly confid” so people like me, more concerned with how the stats were doing in our 10 to 15 Orgs I was remotely managing and under threat of lower conditions if my stats went down (etc), didn’t even bother to be curious about what was going on behind the walls of the castle. The GO was still alive and many of us thought the GO would decide what we should know. Kind of accepted reality at the time.
David Miscavige, (not just to comply with Caren de la C-we have met at Flag) security regulations on this forum:))), in my view and probably many others who had the misfortune of knowing him from before he hijacked the ship, this individual, for some reason was in the right place at the right time and being an hipocrite oportunist and a bully who was invested with a lot of power by an unsuspecting, sick LRH, managed to obliterate all oposition and take control of what he saw as a gold mine. Well, me and Maude picked up the bad vibes in Summer 1981 and simply escaped in our car in the middle of the night. What we were seeing was not what we had signed up for.
The other thing that comes to my mind is Miscavige’s history as a Scientologist and my conclusion is that this guy never understood and still doesn’t, is THE VALUE OF SCIENTOLOGY STANDARD LRH TECH TO THE HUMAN RACE. Therefore, his clearly materialistic/greed and power driven management of an effective method to improve people’s lives could make you think that only a madman would conciously destroy the only water well in 500 miles. But most importantly, IMO this guy, from his early days in the SO, with mum and dad Miscavige in good standing with the Old Man and all, missed his childhood days to the SO and NEVER, NEVER understood what REAL Scientology was all about. Would you really believe that this infamous teenager ever knew or understood anything about engrams, locks, chains (I’ll bet he knew how to produce an F/N!), SerFacs?
Nah, he went through it all without learning and knowing the Tech around him. So, anything you say to this guy, LRH tech particularly, will have no effect. It should be extremely clear to anyone who is active inside this Corporate Money Trap that you don’t know what Scn and Dianetics are. If you really knew and understood the subject, you wouldn’t be there being a soulless, ignorant, moldeable unthinking lump of humanity.
And for the people like you Marty and Mike and contributing friends, I admire you and IMO the only thing that counts here is positive results. Scientology, if correctly applied can do that most of the time. And for those who need help, True Scientology is the fastest and best. So you guys should be allright just sticking to the original.
I hope you will excuse my rambling here, it’s just that I have been kind of quiet and after reading what is going on in pt I thought I would like to say something, which I have.
I am now over 70 (going on 45), retired from all things stressful but always very concious of and forever grateful for, having come across LRH in my life. Although I am not involved in anything to do with scn and haven’t been for the past almost 30 years, I am spiritually supporting the current effort to remove from the scene what I can only view (David Miscavige and Minions) as a virus that is working hard at forwarding it’s own materialistic and highly destructive wishes and desires while effectively obliterating what took a long time and effort to build. As a virus, IT is not thinking, It only has it’s own purpose for existence and can not see anything else, not even the threat of an anti-virus.
Well, these were the thoughts of an old soldier who understands what’s going on.
All the best
Bank dramatization tends to be repetitive, right – regardless of which Dynamic(s) it is occurring on.
Michael A. Hobson
(Deep Fax just snuck this to me:)
Office of COB
IMPORTANT: INTERPRETATION OF PIE FACES
Pie Face altering has become contagious amongst execs. Some think they can fool their way through proper, standard Pie Face protocol, but be warned:
I HAVE DONE EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, SURVEYS AND DATA SERIES ANALYSIS ON THE CURRENT PIE FACES GOING AROUND.
In accordance with the New Light-Gradient Sea Org Ethics Protocol Program this information is being made available to all execs and staff:
PIE FACE ANALYSIS:
Standard Pie Face:
Haven’t Slept Pie Face:
Out-Ethics Pie Face:
Sleeping Pie Face:
Evil Purp Pie Face:
RPF Pie Face:
Out-TR-O Pie Face:
Condescending Pie Face:
Lying Pie Face:
Halloween Pie Face:
Still Loyal to LRH Pie Face:
No-Responsibility Pie Face:
Libs Pie Face:
Condition of Confusion Pie Face:
– – –
Affluence Pie Face:
Cry Baby Pie Face:
Standard Pie Faces are the ONLY allowable Pie Faces when interacting with COB. All others are indicative of CI to standard Pie Face Command Intention and will not be tolerated.
Standard Pie Face Unit I/C
for David Miscavige, COB, RTC
Disclaimer: not responsible for digital mis-interpretation of Pie Face symbols. All staff are to M-9 word-clear, star-rate, clay-demo, and get Sec-Checked on all Pie Face symbols. 24 hour TM.
🙂 🙂 🙂
I remember you (and Ann) from NWC 1987-ish, Bruce. You were OK. 🙂
Very well written. I had not spotted that those who are “under the radar” are hung up at step 6 on Doubt. Yikes! Some of the false data I’ve observed is that the church will “ruin their life”. Haven’t ruined mine. I’m in better condition than ever on all my dynamics. I’m seeing the same for other friends who have announced. Thank you, Sam.
I’ve never said this before – ROTFLMAO!
Thank you, OTDT!
Dear Alex, What a beautiful thing you have written. Thank you for helping to make Scientology great during those years. Thousands of people came into Scientology during those boom years including myself and Marty. So we are in part your products that you made possible by your on-Source hard work. Scientology was all about miracles in those days and everyone was using the tech to create new miracles daily. What you have done and contributed to throughout those years remains a lasting beacon to later generations showing just what the true spirit of Scientology was meant to be.
VSD was the 6th stat graph.
Adding some additional data, they have been renting a facility for several years while the old Syd org sits dormant waiting for its narcisistic makeover, at a cost of $390,000 a year. Look at dateline. They have unpaid bills heading back some three years. Comparing the financial numbers with the rent, even with the dateline, it is impossible that they are even paying rent, electricity and utilities on their own, much less insurance, etc. As SO reserves would not be bailing them out, it is almost certain they are using Ideal Org money to pay daily operating expenses.
Good God, what a laugh 🙂
__ you forgot, slapped pie face.
LOL guilty as charged!
I came back after being given the choice of SP declare or RPF.
Guess I should’ve skipped the RPF and gone straight to the declare.
When I was in Sydney last year I went to the “old” org and its a sad affair with broken windows and signs saying “Under renovation”. No sign of any renovation though. After we found the rented location in a back street (it took the cab driver about 10 minutes to figure out how to get there down one way streets in a business type area south of the city, the hired security dude at the door said “Sorry, there isnt anyone here at the moment” — and frankly, I think he was telling the truth. It was mid afternoon and we were there for 15 minutes and didnt see a soul — Scientologist or otherwise! Not even another car driving down the one way street. There were some people at the AO, but mostly they were intent on keeping those inside from getting out lest they catch sight of some SPs. Because there are big glass windows at the front you could see the people coming down to the front door to go out and being turned away by security with much arm waving.
I am sensing the excitement. When old dogs come out of retirement to lend support, we all know that Scientology is breathing again. You can’t kill a thetan, and the sun never sets on Scientology.
incorrigible pie faces! All of you! 😀
WD Jeremy, VWD Beto.
Thanks for sharing Alex. Great to hear from you.
My apologies Bruce, but if you want to make your entry into a blog about spies, then it behooves you not to act like one. This is not a little old ladie’s sewing circle. Welcome.
Thanks for this theta briefing on how it was to be a Scnist in earlier days.
Its really a relief for me to see what/how the ideal scene was. Thats by the way one rason why I started digging in Scientologies past, by searching and reading the stories of the veterans. (I Joined in 1986 and it was aways effort effort effort…to move up the bridge) . I´d like to hear more. In 1988 I had an impressive meeting with a Sea Org member who was on a mission in Europe.His name was Dick Class. He told me that he was LRH personal recruiter in 1974 (I think) . After production he was playing guitar and singing in the Org where he carried out his orders. By speaking about music
he said that he met Jimi Hendrix in 1969 in London and gave him a Dianetics Book!! and added the “Jimi sadly didn´t make it”. Furthermore I realized that Dick had big troubles with his body he was quite thick and moving very slowly. I assume he passed away, I never met him again.
You seem to be having trouble with this new group that you decided to be part of. Do you have any causation for that trouble?
There was another guy here called OTVIII who was supposed to be an Indy. He was a blow hard and sort of know besty. He started by gaining trust then started causing trouble. We ran his ass out on a rail.
Sam is smart.
I wear glasses and I’m loyal to Ron pie face (mine).
Michael A. Hobson
Thanks Alex. Nice to hear from you. And you clearly have the perspective of a real Scientologist. I recall you well. And I had known Maude even before you were married and was quite friendly with her when she was LRH photographer on the ship. Your perspective is appreciated. Stay well.
Thoughtful – Perhaps you should change your handle to “Thoughtless”. The guy (Bruce Clark) just says that his own son committed suicide due to DM’s disconnection policy and you weigh in that the guy must be a plant? How can you be that cold? For what it’s worth, I can verify he’s posting under his real name and is posting about real incidents that happened to him. As far as being an agent for OSA, well, that could be said about anyone here until prove otherwise. Personally, I like to trust people until it’s been proven that I can’t.
Thanks for your post. Don’t know if you remember me… I was in SMI in LA around 1983.. after the Mission Holder meeting.
Good to hear from you.. hope you are doing well.
Mike, the VSD is as fals as chickens teeth. However, it does follow Div 6 comps which is undoubtedly the “basics”. It would be that high with the basics because everyone bought 10 sets or more of basics so when they comp, let’s say – S.O.S. the org will comp all 10 S.O.S. books sold to that individual. See I can think like the current Churchies.
Wonderful write up Alex. I remember you and Maude well as I arrived in 1975 from CC LA and knew many of the Org and Mission Staff from Mexico because of Yvonne’s close connection to Mexico and her love of the people there.
Great to hear you are thriving and thankful for your years in the SO and Scientology before it became infected. I feel the same way.
Sidewinder. His name was Dick Glass and yes, sadly he passed away not long ago.
The Eloquent Elephant I think was his stage name. He hailed from CCLA – actually Axiom Productions.
Thanks for this information. I started in 1973 and I remember a few good years before David Miscavige started his journey to nowhere. I escaped in
1987 after having briefly met DM. Best decision I ever made.
When I started in Scientology, the emphasis was on help and people like you were very, very valuable. After DM took over, I used good old fashioned knowingness to see through this character. I agree that DM never understood and does not understand anything about Scientology. This is very obvious when you listen and watch the DVD’s he keeps sending to my home which feature hours upon hours of DM’s rambling and trivial analysis.
I respect LRH because he provided help during my early years. I can honestly say that Miscavige never did anything. In fact, his use of LRH’s source personal papers was nothing more than a ploy to monopolize power.
Miscavige is greatly in need of total review from all perspectives.
Your service is greatly appreciated.
I remember you and your wife and the Evaluators clearly. You people were ‘the guys’. I eventually came to be a Cram Off at the Flag Bureaux (which had a name change to IMO) and got to cram Evaluators. It was a dream come true for me as I trained on the Data Series and all the pre-reqs to becoming first a Senior Cse Sup and then a Cramming Officer.
The scene you describe with evals done, Missions fired based on those evals and Situations handled and an area prospering IS the real purpose of the Sea Org and that whole thing embodies the exact tech of the S.O. in achieving its aims.
Thank you for relaying the above. Thank you for your contribution. YOU and your fellow Evaluators and the Action Bureau were my role models for the function of the Sea Org in the overall game of Scientology.
Evaluators…man, talk about Cool Hand Luke x100.
I remember Dick Glass well – great guy. I have his record. He did a great rendition of “Never been to Spain.” He came by our mission a couple times back in the day, and it was a party when he was there.
Windhorse!! Thank you. I hope soon I can privately identify you via my private email from the moderator. Perhaps you could tell me what happened to Cathy and Val Garcia from CCLA? I would love to have an email chat.
I was just listening to the Melbourne Congress, and I think that the lecture “Importances” is the most important lecture to capture the current scene. It explains it all, at least in my viewpoint.
Now, as to why S.O.B., oops sorry, I mean “COB” doesn’t cognite, didn’t cognite while listening, and probably never would: “Well I found out that here-and-there, Scientology gets into bad hands. It gets into the hands of somebody who cannot be audited…” What follows is also perfectly relevant, but I prefer to be brief and let anyone interested have another listen to the lecture for themselves. When was it that S.O.B., sorry, I mean “COB” was last audited?
He is not their pc. Are you supposed to talk to everyone as a pc, whether in or out of session?
Hi Mark, were you a friend of Marylin Brewer when she tried to recover us and bring us to SMI. Just tying a loose end here.
Did you ever stop and think that he has a lot more to lose than you do? People hiding under pen names take a lot less heat then people willing to stand with their own name.
Maybe you get the “soft and tender” award but you sure don’t get the “Man doing something about it” award.
Now go back to that cement pond and have a chat with Granny.
Welcome Alex! Not sure if I met you when I was at Flag, but in any event, it is good to hear from you!
Agreed. Cool Hand Luke and ‘The Wolf”.
Hey Jim, I remember you. Yes, it was a ball (a very tiring and exhausting ball) but when we saw the stats of an Org or sometimes even a whole continent start moving in the right direction we knew we had been successful. And to us, at the time, the improved stats and other good indicators coming from the evaluated org only meant one thing: our purpose of expanding scn was apparently being successful. So, for that I didn’t mind the sleep deprivation and the no time off we had from time to time. And yes, the Action Bu, where at one time John Horwich as action chief others whose names escape me. Preparing for a mission was in itself exciting. Yeah. It was cool.
Thank you. It has taken a long time to establish a link with you. It is my real pleasure to see you doing so well and looking good too:)) There is hope for you mate :>)
Keep on trucking mis amigos.
Steve, thank you for your kind words. If i somehow managed to contribute in some minor way to the betterment of the human race, then I’m happy. And THAT is what it is all about. Thanks again, Steve. I am a supporter.
Very Needed and Wanted
A one-stop “OSA FOR Dummies” website to send friends, associates, relatives, neighbors who are approached with Black PR Ops.
It’s so absolutely incredulous that most people need a 101 to wrap their heads around it.
For example, this week Katie Holmes sanctimoniously wins a law $uit against Star Magazine for Black P, while her “church” is busy working double shifts financing Defamation in neighborhoods, businesses and the net. Self righteous smirking while your Organization is maliciously trying to ruin lives? It’s incredible! Evil always is.
So a simple website for the novice and good of heart with the roper reality that summarizes OSA Black PR Ops … and a link to a running list of their “targets”
Thank you for the kind words and welcome.
Some ask if I have been away and came back. The answer is yes.
The short story is that my husband drew a line in the sand about our marriage – stating that either I disconnect from the Indies and recant, or our marriage of 22 years is over.
He did this after a rat named Danny Barram sent him an email conversation that he had with me where I was informing Danny that I was an Indi, and as he is in “good standing” he should stop writing me and questioning my decision. I was telling Danny to go and LOOK in his local org and actually open his eyes. Danny was working as a spy for Marion Pouw. She was the one who wrote the nasty response to my email and then had Danny send it to Mitch to stir him up.
I am writing the full story of how in November last year, Mike Sutter and Marion Pouw came to my house for hours three nights in a row. It was 3 against 1. There were extensive efforts to DA Marty and Mike with horror stories. I am also detailing how our Comm EV was held, and our SP Declares cancelled.
But most of all, my story details how I came to see that everything done by OSA, Mike and Marion, had nothing to do with me, nothing to do with finding out and sorting out true violations of tech and policy, and nothing about actually getting as-isness of what has happened in the past — and it is certainly not about looking at what is happening RIGHT NOW in the organisation they are involved in.
The only, and I repeat ONLY purpose for any dealings they had with me since November of last year, was to muzzle me. To get me to stop affiliating and talking to people who are like-minded and to prevent me from continuing to blow the whistle with information that I have.
The cruncher for me — the FINAL reality check for me — was when Mitch recently commented that I never even said Thank you to him for “saving my life”.
His words were “You might as well have been a heroin druggie with track marks all up your arm, and I saved you. I got Mike and Marion here, got the Comm Evs held and our SPs cancelled. I saved your eternity, my own and also the future of our children –and you have not even thanked me!”
No Mitch — you did not save me.
You ambushed me. You tried to blackmail me — using the threat of divorce on a mother of two young children.
You forced your reality on me and tried to muzzle me from blowing the whistle on CORRUPTION in the Church of Scientology.
Oh — and the story about having my name in Google Alerts, as well as the name of this blog is a fabrication too — as Mitch, it is not possible to do Google alerts on two subjects at the same time. The only way you could have found out that the name Lana was coming up on this blog was because your OSA Handlers alerted you to conversations that they believed to be me. They wrote to you — and you immediately threatened me – as a puppet does.
Story coming soon, to a blog near you…
PS. Best wishes and love to all my dear old Indie friends. Though there has been a small war happening down in Australia — do not fear. I have been through worse (much worse) in the camp of horrors called Int — so water off a duck’s back really…
PPS. Would love to Skype on Independance Day to all and say hello in person. Maybe we can set that up?
Thank you, and in a way I understand. But likely it was because I came in very unlike a lady to a sewing circle that some found offensive.
That said, I am reminded about Marty’s video discussing how confessionals turned into Sec Checks and how it had further devolved into a tool of DM’s reign of terror.
I’ve met some old friends here and am thankful of that. It’s been eye-opening and alarming to learn what’s happened and is still happening to Scientology under DM.
I hope this group can come together to somehow advance his demise. Certainly he will send in his spies and all need to keep the price of freedom to the front. But I also hope the group does not succumb to an atmosphere of paranoia because of it.
I’m an old-timer full of self-confidence (Remember, I was a Cram Off) and have a rather thick skin. I would hope you treat other newcomers with some grace before making unfounded or even suspected accusations.
Love you guys too 🙂
What a theta comment! I got goose bumps! You rehabbed a feeling, I haven’t had for a while! Thank You! ml, Laura Ann
Is this the one? It’s very technical – you have to push the ‘share’ button 😀
Nope. buggers changed it again 😦
@Sam, Great writeup; I really agree with you.
I certainly didn’t mean to discourage anyone from doing their conditions formulas on across the dynamics. Far be it for me to do so.
Speaking personally, the church certainly knows that that I am NOT in doubt and those that know me personally, whether “in”, “out” or indifferent know that I have no love remaining for that organization. I have already gone round and round with various terminals in CoS with some acrimony. I am at this point applying the policy of “Don’t antagonize the SP” (Sorry I don’t have my LRH refs. handy) Posting my opinions with my true name on a public forum isn’t for me (at this time), but I have nothing but respect for those that do. I am sure there is some way to further “De-PTS” myself, but at this point I don’t know what the correct next step would be; just naming the SP has helped so far 🙂
The Scientology Organization doesn’t WANT people to use Scientology.
They’re like parasitic souls feeding off Hubbard’s work. Their purpose is to OWN “truth”. To buy MEST and control power.
😦 It becomes more obvious to the world as they try to attack good people.
And their biggest targets are the ones with life.
Go for it!
Thank you for your accurate observations and analysis. Been there more or less and observed the same things.
Do not forget
FLIP FLOP SP.
A FLIP FLOP SP has had an SP declare. He is then approached by the Church silently and with stealth to do certain actions. He privately talks to designated oSA terminals, and folk such as Marion Dendui/Pouw and Mike Sutter,( DM runners and HCO Cope for those exiting the C of $ and other flappy matters.)
(Hansuili is washing dishes in PAC and is no longer part of the team with Sutter and Pouw)
A Church deal would be to denounce Marty and Mike in public.
write to THOUGHTFUL and ask that he remove an essay previously written on his Site.
A FLIP FLOP SP is then FLOPPED back into the Church with his SP declare canceled.
However, the being himself FLIP FLOPs, one day with this group, one day back with the past group. Hence the title FLIP FLOPPER.
One day he is an anti-social personality, the next day, he is a member of the “Church”~~ and allowed to see his disconnected kids, spouse etc. ~~ just like that.
OVERNIGHT SP as we discussed a few weeks ago.
Although the “Church” claims superior knowledge on who is SP and who isn’t ~~ even with courses you buy on HOW TO SHATTER SUPPRESSION, (courses public are forced to do over and over)
It apparently cannot detect SPs that it has within the Church for DECADES.
DM apparently could not tell for decades that the 25 RTC who have fled and joined M and M were SPs.
Miscavige specialized is hiring SPS for RTC
So many folk who have contributed $$$$megabucks $$$$ and decades of their life, are *SUDDENLY*
an OVERNIGHT SP
++++Definition of OVERNIGHT SP. One who speaks out against Miscavige, blows the whistle against Miscage.
Other reasons for OVERNIGHT SP
+++For reading the whistleblowing sites and speaking out
++++For befriending “so and so” and “so and so” who has “gone south”.
++++For Facebook friendship and other connections with “so and so” who has gone over to the dark side”
+++For visiting with other *SPs*
The ref. is HCOPL “PTS Type A Handling” .
You are knocking me out. Again. I just love how you don’t keep secrets! It takes all the air out of a secret’s balloon when you tell it to everybody, eh?
JM aka Deep Fax
There’s a huge difference even between what I did with you and what DM does. DM forces people to “confess” to crimes and out ethics. No one asked you for any of that. You were simply asked to state your reality, as in do you think DM is a pig or a god? So we can know who you really are, because experience has shown the last thing DM bots will do is bluntly criticize David Miscavige. To them, he “is” Scientology and they have said so numerous times and even hold him above LRH. And they have no apparent problem with criticizing “the Church” — DM does that all the time.
Things normally are pretty cordial here. But in an article about spies, as I said, it’s a bit more touchy. The whole terrain is by definition strewn with land mines.
Jethro, Your natter is noted along with your generalities. This article is specifically about HOW to know who is a plant and who isn’t. Re read it.
All the guy had to do was say, “DM is a suppressive person.” END of issue. He didn’t. Instead he threw out that his son committed suicide. He evaded the question. That isn’t any criteria and criteria is what we are discussing.
I could roll out my own losses, but it isn’t the point.
He cleverly jocked the situation so that anyone challenging him is automatically being “mean.”
If you like to “trust people until it’s been proven that you can’t” then you are by definition unwilling to pay the price of freedom. You would apparently let any wolf into the hen house if he asked politely. What you said is an enemy line.
I think the guy you were talking about Dick Class went by the name of “Eloquent Elephant”. He was connected to CCLA in the old days. He wore a beard that referenced tusks and had big hair. Last I heard of him he was doing a DJ radio show.
Agreed 100%. Love, Amy
Lana, Wow! This is spectacular news! 3 against 1 and THE CHAMP HAS KNOCKED OUT ALL THREE. KA-BOOM! KABOOM! KA-BOOM!
OK, that shit is funny. Including the Independent Pie Faces, Incorrigible, and I’m actually roaring over the Mike H ‘glasses’ Pie Face.
Hi Alex, Jon Horwich is also out of the CoS now. One comment: by the early 2000s, the Eval Corps was demolished and org evals ended as a practice. Today all orgs must follow only RTC programs written by DM himself. They are blanket programs, a complete perversion of everything LRH wrote in the Data Series. And I’m sure I don’t even need to mention they are all based on wrong Whys. – Steve
David Miscavige blew from a session in 1992/1993 and has never received an additional minute of auditing since that day.
Lana – wow, after reading this there’s a lot I could say, but in short – you have my complete respect.
Anyone heard about this?
At least the GO had a certain degree of *professionalism* when carrying out covert ops through B1 while OSA is just a bunch of clown asses trying to play spy.
Your application of HCOPL Counter Espionage really sucks.
You guys are leaking like a sieve.
I’ve lost count of how many times all your plans and operations have been posted on the web.
A word of advice:
It has been changed. What works is copy the entire routing in the address bar of the browser while on the youtube page with the video. Then paste that in the blog. The share button uses different code that works on smart phones but not doesn’t work on a wordpress blog. Hope that helps. 🙂
You ARE and you certainly communicate.
Paul, Every single person who has been proven up as a card-carrying plant has track with us and at one time was “ok.” We have numerous examples. That is the point of this article.
I do get your drift. I’m sure it’d be similar in Scn-ese – along the lines of more assertion of his rightness, till he’s so right he’s dead right. That’s purty much what he’s on about now.
You’ve now gone on and on about how I refused to speak up against DM and seem to remain very self-righteous about it. Perhaps you should go back and read my very 1st post on this blog:
“Bruce Clark | May 8, 2011 at 12:10 am | Reply
I just read your story, and recently several other stories of similar experience, plus what info Marty has posted. I am waking up to the dire necessity to remedy, rescue is the better word, all of LRH’s Scientology from this SP, David Miscavige.”
Thanks for your explanation, you’ve given live mass to the subject and by the way, I love your site and I’m proud to be on it.
If it wasn’t abundantly clear that you wanted Bruce to say something specific about Davey, then I guess it’s pretty much clear by now. I, for one, will never let myself be forced to say something just to prove myself and because somebody else wants me to. I’ll say things only because I decide to, but that’s not the point.
Let’s say he is here because Davey ordered him, how are you going to get him up the Bridge if you just challenge him. I don’t think he feels a lot of ARC for you and comm will be a little stressed. I don’t think of this blog as a session (Tony) but as a group dePTSing cycle so people can start to get gains again.
Of course new people are very likely to be PTS to a certain degree, especially as they’re missing a lot of data and what they read can’t easily be assimilated and evaluated fully within a week. It took me more and I’m out for 12 years, never had a SRA, slapping, lost nobody, etc. but kept increasing my understanding while reading (incl. your site).
Now, that’s what they need: lots of true data to evaluate their false or missing data against so they can make up their mind on their own self determinism. Education is the first action and there’re lots of gradients and ways to do so. None of them include ARCX’s.
This blog provides everything they need and only tolerance can keep them long enough to make it through. Let’s say he’s so very downstat that you wouldn’t want to spend a single minute on him; the beauty of this blog is that there’re others (f.i. Sam) who are willing to make the effort.
I’ve seen people on this blog change so much, so unexpectedly, that I even like to spend time on Snowhite and Standard Tech Zealot (as long as they don’t get abusive). The comm is so valuable and always get results, even if you don’t realize it, they do start thinking; even Davey changes through this blog.
Should we go effect of someone who is PTS? I don’t think we can. I think we should just keep up the good works and get everybody on the Indy 500.
Steve, thanks again for all the great work you’ve done; I got a lot out of it myself.
Remember – we split it. 50/50. The big pharma checks are barely paying for my trips to Patagonia and the lunker Brown Trout are callin’.
I actually wasn’t trying to say that you would discourage others from doing a Doubt Formula. I’m really truly sorry it came across as an unintentional evaluation! I meant it to be in terms of making sure you didn’t have anyone on your lines running false data or control on YOU not the other way around!
I don’t know of any reference that says ‘don’t antagonize the SP’. Are you quite certain that this datum has not been altered and given to you verbally or out of context?
I get where you are at and I’m not saying that taking a massive leap wouldn’t be out-gradient. There may be steps you need to take before arriving to such a point (there were for me!). But I do wish for you ultimately to have the freedom to be able to stand up and declare who you are and what you stand for because I’m pretty certain that it’s something that would bring you much happiness. That being said, spotting the SP and moving over to slight gentle cause is a very valid step forward so very very well done on that! 😀
That little barb you just tried to slip in — that our group has an “atmosphere of paranoia” — is also an enemy line. You didn’t come in like a lady to a sewing circle. You came in like an OSA bot purposely violating the exact points written about in the article, hoping nobody would call you out — that is called “nullification.” Reference: Science of Survival.
Egads, you awesome one.
That remove an article from http://www.scientology-cult.com remark hit something. While I was “being handled” by certain churchies, ah, er, sycopants of the RP *or VE**, the #1 action for me to take to more or less demonstrate willingness to cooperate or seek resolution: contact(email) Steve and ask him to take my name off the Indie 500.
in case we have new folk or like me, no memory:
*RP — reptilian predator
**VE — vampire emperor
both euphemisms for Davie Miscavige.
BOOYA! Thanks SA 😀
That the video Sam. For some reason when I saw that in the theatre I thought of the Sea Org. I meant to post it as a reply to a post about a Scientology movie but I don’t know what happened.
Actually, it embedded twice for me, but then the posts disappeared
“There is no substitute for an all out howling mad charge into the ramparts against life, ONE MORE TIME!” This is NOT an LRH quote.
Thank you! This might be the ne plus ultra demonstration of personal integrity.
ps; I know some people who know some stuff that might be able to do something re your skype request. I am sure the love is mutual.
I knew him as the “Hurdy Gurdy Man”. One of the nicest men I have ever met. Could play guitar very well and had a voice like honey.
“No witch hunts are invited. Just some tips to friends. ”
C’mon guys. Enough already 😦
You kick ass girl and I just bet the Indy bachelors would be very interested in someone of your quality.
You are most welcome Lady Sam I am. I have been helped by so many on this blog and I try when possible to flow help to others. I was irritated that I couldn’t get video to post and finally worked it out. Enjoy your new found skill! 🙂 🙂
It’s not so much a dramatization, its that they are working for an DM and an organization with a SOP and rules and there’s certain things they can do and there’s certain things they cant do. For example, an OSA operative can never out another OSA operative no matter how much evidence you provide, that’s one way to know that he’s an operative too.
They can not operative with the same flexibility as an independent Scientologist and that’s how you can detect them.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Yeah, don’t forget the slapped one. That’s good.
They’re dumber than a box of rocks.
I agree with a lot of what you said here.
One point of differentiation would be “sources of trouble”. LRH wrote of A-J types that create trouble for the organization. For the most part they are ignored .
I would say that we do need to keep an eye out for trouble sources and flush them out. We have our own list of troublesome type people that IMHO should not be “educated” but should be “outed” and booted off the blog.
One thing I have noticed, speaking of characteristics of OSA bots, spies etc is this:
THEY CREATE TROUBLE.
It is a simple guideline to use. Is this new person creating trouble or are they in ARC with the idea that “dm is a pig and not a god”. (lol Steve) Anyone who starts trouble on the blog should be scrutinized very carefully so that we can continue to educate the others who deserve it without distraction.
It’s not a witch hunt.
It is a filtering process for sources of trouble.
If Bruce is such a good Qual guy he should understand about using ARC and that a group needs to protect itself from A-J types. He is not a “rookie” but he is starting to act a bit naive, which is suspect.
I heard from another person that I suspected as a bot and they said that I was getting “paranoid” and that I was acting like the cult. It is a planned attack at introverting and letting the gaurd down to let them go unchecked.
The greatest good in my opinion is to filter them out and you may rough up a few a bit. If they don’t show their true colors right away then they have to take some responsibility for that.
It is not that hard to be here and communicate with ARC even if you don’t agree with everything said. Take me or RJ for example. We disagree at times yet still remain in ARC and it is obvious we are not trying to injure this group or its principle people.
Hey if you don’t like geting roughed up then try acting like a decent person.
Thank you for this wonderful write up. You bring back many memories.
You are indeed an old soldier who understands what is going on ~~and your spiritual support is so welcome !
I remember Maude well from the Apollo, we were also NOTS CSes at FSO at the same time~~graduating our internships on the same day !
Alex, I hope you will tell a lot of stories and warm welcome !
Now that is how you take off the velvet glove and swing the steel hand.
HI Alex! Thank you so much for writing.
In my first few months in Scientology, the Int Finance Police showed up and our Mission Holder was declared.
Since I was last on lines -2007- I have been reading the blogs and have made a point of reading and listening to what went on in the 80’s. Including videos by Frankie Freeman, Mary Freeman and Sunday talks by David Mayo etc…
We are all in this together and I welcome the wisdom of those of you who experienced the early days of Scientology and saw the outpoints as Miscavige took over.
Steve, Mike, Marty, OTDT and everyone else has contributed to this very important post and its comments, Thanks! SaveScientogy must be having a field day. An exposé continues.
Getting back to the diminutive psychotic- I thought the following might put things into context regarding the mainstream non-scientological language as he analyzes lil dave:
Only took a good 24 hours or so to finally respond forthrightly. Hmm…
Chuck, Joanne Clarke’s husband was named Frank Clarke and he is still a Kool-Aid drinker from what their son told me last Xmas. Lives in Seattle area. He was AOLA staff that I remember him from.
What is happening on this blog, compliments of BC, is a perfect example of what happened for so many years that so many of us simply refused to confront what we perceived for fear of looking “bad, wrong, mean, CI, whatever. High-toned individuals always WANT to trust, to believe. Makes it easier for an evil one to successfully employ destructive actions and cause dissension.
BC is good, but M&M&S&K, et al are better.
David Miscavige is the slimiest of the slimes and once you fully face up to that, then you start to get free of the years of suppression. Go for it Bruce. Or, just go away.
Pie Face 🙂
Steve, good call and as WH said, “perfect example of pacifism” (high-toned Theta)
Actually it didn’t. My very first post to this forum was:
“Bruce Clark | May 8, 2011 at 12:10 am
I just read your story, and recently several other stories of similar experience, plus what info Marty has posted. I am waking up to the dire necessity to remedy, rescue is the better word, all of LRH’s Scientology from this SP, David Miscavige.”
Let the justifications begin for all the accusations to the contrary ….
Couldn’t agree more. Until I did my own Doubt Formula in full, I continued to be somewhat affected by old prejudices, opinions, biases formed during 32 years of escalating internal suppression.
Announcing my allegiance to LRH and NOT David Miscavige was one of the most freeing actions I’ve ever done. Still run into the odd idea, opinion, thought, etc. planted by 25 years in the S.O., but at least I can recognize them now and do something about it.
Cathy Garcia to the best of my knowledge is still the Dir Reg at CC Int.
She and Val separated years ago and he went to Las Vegas where I had heard he was the ED of the Vegas Org for awhile. And then finally left and was back to doing music full time.
But, my information is at least 10 years old.
Please ask Marty for my hushmail account, would love to chat although we didn’t know each other well, we have many common old friends.
Over the top!!! Kudos to Deep Fax for once again providing us with the exact policy as written/interpreted by RP.
Better than Batman and Robin.
Good on you, Sheila.
Mariette tried to write but her email was kicked back. Have you changed your email? You can write me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Mitch, pull your head out of your dags.
Can’t you see what you are pissing away?!
(Sorry, dags and Sheila are all the Aussie slang I know.)
Dan — pretty good job mate. Bob’s your uncle….
” . . . Tom Cruise, John Travolta and . . .
By and by, Paul is Scooter and he speaks sooth.
Bruce, I’ve been reading your entries and hoping you don’t really deserve some of the comments you have received. But if you were really a Cram Off you should know the comm cycle. You aren’t using it very well here and it keeps generating trouble. It’s that simple.
If you’re not really on board we’ll see through it. If you’re really on board use the comm cycle to calm the waters, bring more miscavige criminal incidents to light (the best disinfectant) and enjoy your new freedom and friends. Careful–the KoolAid does definitely effect one’s comm cycle adversely.
As of 2007 at least, Cathy Garcia was still the Dir Reg at CCI.
There is some truth to what you say. I have said things that some did not like, and even challenged the group “R.” My Doubt Formula will soon be submitted to Marty. Hopefully he will post it for all to read. I have gained much de-PTSing from this blog. I’ve also encountered a lot of entheta. Lot’s of good people here and my big hope is that the de-PTSing from the DM brand of Scn will go forward strong.
It’s original title was ‘The Master’ and since they never asked any Scientologists who actually knew Ron like Ken Urquhart for example to consult on the film they’ll probably base it on Russell Miller’s turgid character assassination they deceptively call a “biography”.
I’ll be skippin’ this flick like I skipped BE.
Though I’m sure the so called “critics” will be shelling out the bucks to see it first run and claiming it’s the gospel truth whatever.
Thanks for your contributions as well.
Bruce, this is in reply to yours about doing your Doubt formula but I couldn’t click on the Reply button–so I’ll answer you here. When looking at the intentions, etc. of the Indies, do read the very early statements from Marty when this blog was created. Also savescientology. It won’t be complete without really checking these out.
I think this will work properly, now.
Michael A. Hobson
Sinar – that really is the sad part
..it is no longer even possible 😦
Why is David Miscavige more important than your own son? Had to ask that agaim but forgive me for not finishing all comments yet.
Wind Walker –
What an appropriate and timely reference! This totally explains why the Miscavigists can’t and don’t protect what is left of the mere shadow of true “Scientology” DM has so thoroughly squirreled.
THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF ADVOCATING TOTAL FREEDOM.
In the razor-wired camp where most of the only remaining excursions are trips to the clinic for forced abortions, a call for “Total Freedom” would in reality be a hollow-ringing cry of TOTAL HYPOCRISY.
So they can’t implement the LRH handling for 2 good reasons:
1) TOTAL FREEDOM is anathema to MISCAVOLOGY
2) THEY are the ones ATTACKING SCIENTOLOGY
Sounds to me like LRH wrote this policy for Independents (in his day he would have said, “those who think for themselves; who have the courage to see what they see and say…”) – the only remaining, practicing Scientologists; beings of integrity who can actually HAVE Total Freedom.
We are advocating Total Freedom.
Thank You Karola and Wind Walker
Another, possibly forgotten, reference comes to mind and I dedicate it to the Reverend Heber Jentzsch:
(from A PRAYER FOR TOTAL FREEDOM)
“At this time we think of those whose liberty is threatened;
of those who have suffered imprisonment for their beliefs;
of those who are enslaved or martyred,
and for all those who are brutalized, trapped or attacked.
“We pray that human rights will be preserved so that all people may believe and worship freely, so that freedom will once again be seen in our land.
“Freedom from war, and poverty, and want; freedom to be; freedom to do and freedom to have.
“Freedom to use and understand Man’s potential – a potential that is God given and God-like.
“And freedom to achieve that understanding and awareness which is Total Freedom. May God let it be so.”
This rings a bell. The most courageous guys are treated like a piece of shit.
I hate it. Working in that field could drive you Type 3 quite fast. I know it
because I experienced it. Fortunately I came through and won. But the unpaid bills don´t disappear from your files, Kurt.
You must get the most simple code of it
So now I “nattered” about you? No, all I did was point out that you were being overly harsh and insensitive with someone, for no good reason. Besides, Bruce had made it explicit what he thought of Miscavige, but not in the exact words you were looking for. Who the fuck cares?
You must be on some kind of power trip if you think that now everybody has to do things according to your write-up. For one thing, it’s not LRH. When LRH wrote up the 12 points on how to recongize an SP, he also wrote up 12 points on how to recognize a social personality so as to prevent witch hunts. What I find interesting is that there’s no corresponding 12 points in the “how to spot a spie” write-up, which opens the door to it being used for witch hunts.
So, stop these silly witch hunts of yours. Oops, there I go with those “enemy lines” of mine. You’re completely over-thinking this and are actually acting paranoid just because you don’t know who someone is.
Of course we can’t let ourselves we troubled, I won’t. For sure, when people get abusive they should be relegated to proper terminals until handled and I think Marty is doing a splendid job on that. But we have to be very careful to not implement individually or by group agreement the very disconnection policy we hate so much. LRH cancelled it and would always let the door open for everyone and wrote a complete policy for them.
There are so many different realities, so much false data around and so many people of so many different tone levels including 1.1 and lower, that judging by arbitraries like “does he agree with me or not?” will get you deeper into the same trouble you’re fighting so hard to get out of.
I wouldn’t give any attention to heavy PTS people and prefer uptone and able people around me but there’re many who have huge reality on big problems and troubles and wouldn’t even comm with me for my lack of mass.
One of the pearls of this blog is the multiple viewpoint system that shows many sides of the equation. Again, should we go effect of them PTSers? No, but it will happen only if we keep fighting them off and implement bad policy, policy that LRH cancelled. Only we can create our own problems.
The answer is to move them up a little (miniscule) bit higher if you consider them worth it. If not, ignoring is the best next option. This blog provides a very safe way to do both. Withholding education is not smart and discussions with them have proven pretty interesting, fun and educational for the rest.
Of course distraction and abuse shouldn’t be tolerated like in any organization except the Sea Org, but again, Marty is doing a wonderful job on that account.
Check this Blog out … It’s a good one stop explanation.
Wow, I thought they were just rumours. Talk about going in the entirely opposite direction. But then again, considering the mentality of Miscavige, having seen the effectiveness of the Data Series, which is fundamentally designed to find the TRUTH, he would not want to see that tool (well understood and practised) in the hands of anyone below him because he wouldn’t want his outpoints and criminal actions to bee seen for what they are. Obnosis is something that he will never allow his OSA bots to learn.
If they Obnose him and his actions, he’d be in danger.
I said above “complete opposite direction” because when the Old Man was around and all throughout the boom years , he issued specific instructions to the IMO concerning Flag sending random or arbitrary orders into an org without proper evaluation. So it was always, eval, eval ,eval, program and execution of it. It was pretty tidy and an effective way to keep the uptrends and prevent cross ordering from other networks.
It is kind of sad to see that such a wonderful and powerful piece of LRH’s work has been binned along with rest of the standard tech.
I hope some day, in the Indie field, someone will revive the DSEC (Data Series Evaluator Course) and start training people to use it in Life. 30 years ago I left the SO and since then I have found the DS to be an invaluable tool for living and handling life.
hello gorgeous! Long time no see. So good to see you doing so well. Freedom suits you very well, judging by your pictures and recent activities:)). I have been in close comm with Maude since our divorce in 1986 and she is doing very well, enjoying life (she’s now 72) and has spent all these years seeking more spiritual awareness and helping as much as she can.
As for stories, I’m sure eventually I’ll come up with some gem that may be of interest here.
Absolutely bloody right!!! :))))
Thank you all for the additional data on Dick Glass. May god rest his soul.
Ok. Alex. DSE Policies have been honey on my soul.
I love them. But imagine, Within the last 25 years org registrars
haven´t offered me not even once to do the course. I estimate, from 100 publics +local org staff just one or two have done the DSEC. Thats I think is the key WHY, why SCNists can be so easyly fooled by DM.
We can’t leave it all up to Marty.
Also we aren’t disconnecting from anyone. We are questioning them to see if they are the enemy.
This is a game you know?
We can apply : Do not give or recieve communication unless you yourself desire it.
If you are such a bad ass Jethro, why don’t you use your real name?
Or… are you afraid…
It will be interesting to see how he turns out. I would not even vaguely consider messing with him on any other postings. But to turn up in a blog detailing the characteristics of spies, and knowingly dramatize those very characteristics? That’s just too off the rails not to get confronted with the fact.
It’s like having a TV show about animal cruelty and someone in the audience shows up with two dead cats around their neck and picks a fight with the host. Whether the dead cat owner is really cruel to animals or not, it’s beside the point because he’s making a mockery of the show. That’s my take on Bruce.
Is Bruce really a spy? Who knows. What I do know is he was making a mockery of the article, and he was making a mockery of this group, throwing out enemy lines left and right. He had already taken on the color of an enemy.
As for you, you are forwarding an enemy line by falsely suggesting we are trying to give this write up the same status as LRH policy. Not even vaguely and you are either very snide or very ignorant to say so.
Marty wrote this article. Mike and I contributed points. And all we are doing is listing out for others what we have observed about the behavior of DM’s spies since we’ve dealt with enough of them to see a pattern. There is an LRH reference on that and it’s called, “Personal integrity.”
Miscavige’s oldest trick is to label all such acts of personal integrity as “attempts to be Source.” No Jethro, having the courage to say what you have observed is not the same as trying to be source.
That you have a problem with an article about spotting spies, does a great deal about you.
As for “paranoid” I never said Bruce was a spy. Bruce’s actions simply mocked the article. That was the only issue I had with him.
We can’t publish an article on how to recognize spies and then allow someone in the comments to do the exact things just listed out — name dropping, asking for trust, and most of all won’t give a clear statement of his reality as concerns DM — because it’s a way of nullifying the article by establishing a false data that “we don’t actually apply these criteria.” Thus, I confronted him on his actions. I didn’t confront him as being a spy. I confronted him on his observed actions and omissions.
It isn’t because I’m on a “power trip” — it’s because I care about the group and I won’t tolerate anyone impugning it’s honor. Honor — you should learn more about it.
Bruce has got to be PTS if nothing else because he caused a lot of dev-t by doing the wrong thing, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
All he needs to do is speak up loud and clear about David Miscavige and keep on speaking out and he will be fine. Someone who is really on board — you don’t have to coax them to put their shoulder to the wheel. They want to do it.
Maybe Bruce is a nice person. The CoS exploits nice people. Similarly, having suffered a terrible loss is NO CRITERIA. Hello?
If it was, then all an enemy would have to do is casually toss out how he or she was a victim and — boom: instant acceptance.
Only a total dolt would buy that. And that’s why your comments are irresponsible.
You are literally so stupid, or you want to establish that BEING A VICTIM entitles someone to trust?
Knock, knock. “Miscavige spit in my face” — Oh come on in! Here’s access to our bank account.
Knock, knock. “The CoS… disconnection… wife died.” — Oh, come on in! I’m Jethro, my home is yours.
Knock, knock. “Out tech… cancer… now in remission.” — Please come in. Gosh, maybe you can baby sit my kids.
I totally agree with you on this point.
Sure it’s totally okay to bicker and disagree among ourselves.
This is a “problem” that is going to come up when dealing with individuals since we all have a unique point of view.
In an Org.
The main point of agreement would be and should be *policy*.
However we are not in an Organization.
As far as I understand it.
It’s Marty’s Blog.
Not Marty’s Org.
Therefore we are part of the *Field*.
As Ron says in the PL ‘Ethics and Franchise’ the technology that is used on Franchises and in the field in general is *PR* not *ethics*.
To do otherwise is mixing tech.
Personally I really really feel compelled sometimes to repress the urge to start a flame war when someone else demands that another quote get their ethics in unquote and do a doubt formula.
If someone is posting here whether under a nom de guerre or their real name. We know for the most part they don’t have any doubts about the workability of the tech or they would be posting on some “natter board” like ESMB telling everyone how they’d fucked up by the generality they call “Scientology”.
So as far as I’m concerned the condition of doubt doesn’t apply in many cases so is basically forcing a *wrong condition* which will act as a *wrong item* per the ‘Laws of Listing and Nulling’ on another.
The same thing with forcing others to accept Miscavige as *the* SP as if there could only possibly be one SP involved in this whole scene.
True Miscavige is an SP but he may not be *everybody’s* SP.
Again as far as I’m concerned this is just another violation of the laws of L&N point 5.
I mean saying that you must accept Miscavige as the ultimate evil is almost Christianesque as far as I’m concerned and damn anyone who doesn’t brings back not so fond memories of the Inquisition and auto de fe.
“David get thee behind me”.
As far as I’m concerned there are many other factors and actors involved that have already been covered in various lectures, directives and PLs by Ron.
It amazes, actually flabbergasts as in nonplusses me that while many claim total fealty to LRH they disregard these lectures, directives and PLs entirely while asserting that Miscavige is the one and only item.
The one who totally by himself was able to take down the Church of Scientology.
Not that it really matters who or the whos responsible are because it is a *fait accompli*.
The Church of Scientology *is* in *hostile* hands.
Whether these hands belong exclusively to Miscavige or some shadowy Government agency doesn’t matter.
The fact is it is in *hostile hands*.
This should be obvious to anyone who attempts to go up the Bridge, or actually apply Scientology or demand policy be applied within its confines.
As far as I’m concerned dwelling how bad the Church is or continually nattering about Miscavige is a waste of time and a pointless exercise.
Sure Marty is doing a good job of exposing ongoing OSA ops and all of that which is good counter intel.
But otherwise I think it is more important to build a community of like minded individuals who just want to apply *Standard Tech* and be left alone and unmolested so that we can do so.
I know eventually we’ll have to organize ourselves but right now I think the most important thing is just get the actual tech applied.
You know deliver what’s promised and if we have to go outside of the organization in order to do that because the organization is preventing it.
Well so be it!
That’s all I wanted to say on the matter.
I don’t dig this flame war you’ve got going with Bruce.
To accuse him of being a plant because he doesn’t ascribe to the same vindictive you have towards Miscavige or that he doesn’t accept him as the sole and exclusive SP really proves nothing as far as I’m concerned.
I’ve never accepted Miscavige as the sole proprietor of the label “SP” .
Or accepted the lone Miscavige theory either.
Does this make me an “OSA Plant” as well?
By the way Sam and Tony I don’t use my real as well though I have signed my comments several times.
Does this place me in doubt as well?
Some people have their own reasons for not blowing their cover.
Especially if you live in OSA intense areas where some of us do.
It’s tantamount to slashing your wrists in shark infested waters.
Aside from being pointlessly suicidal.
Or do I repeat myself?
Especially when you are still trying to rescue friends and loved ones from the thrall of the Squirrel Group.
Also it just creates antagonism.
Some of us rightly or wrongly try to avoid because it says so in policy such as ‘PTS Handling’ and ‘First Policy’ or because we just don’t want OSA’s entheta on our lines.
Or various other reasons that are *personal*.
We’d rather leave fighting the good fight and bringing down the evil tyrant to guys like Marty, Mike, Sam, Tony and you Thoughtful Steve.
Call us “cowards” if you want.
But to quote Rhett Butler from “Gone with the Wind”.
“Frankly I don’t give a damn.”
I thought this song would be appropriated for this post!
I awake to find no peace of mind.
I said how do you live
As a fugitive?
Down here, where I cannot see so clear
I said what do I know?
Show me the right way to go.
And the spies came out of the water,
But you’re feeling so bad ‘coz you know
And the spies hide out in every corner.
But you can’t touch them no,
‘Coz they’re all spies.
They’re all spies.
I awake to see that no one is free.
We’re all fugitives – look at the way we live
Down here, I cannot sleep from fear. no
I said which way do I turn?
Oh I forget everything I learn.
And the spies came out of the water.
But you’re feeling so bad ‘coz you know
And the spies hide out in every corner.
But you can’t touch them no,
‘Coz they’re all spies.
They’re all spies.
And if we don’t hide here,
They’re gonna find us.
And if we don’t hide now,
They’re gonna catch us when we sleep.
And if we don’t hide here,
They’re gonna find us.
And the spies came out of the water.
But you’re feeling so good.coz you know
that though spies hide out in every corner.
they can’t touch you, no.
‘Coz they’re just spies.
They’re just spies,
They’re just spies,
They’re just spies,
They’re just spies,
They’re just spies.
Yes, Wind Walker, I agree with that attitude and concept being the best road to take. But I am more speaking of upcoming Legal Strategies, or evidence someone has for a trial, or what you are going to share at the APA — the best secret is the one you do not tell, nor talk of.
On regular day to day stuff — who cares, the truth is the truth. nance=y
Yes, and it is so Jr. High… Didn’t I graduate that years andyears ago….
The truth brings light to points of darkness…
Hey OTDT ! Take a look at the robot pie face end of video
Maybe dm lost this body long time ago… I would say that it is a mix of confusion and evil purp! What do you think?
Yours and OTDT’s insouciancingness (I know dm can’t say that one – hehe) is by far the best!
Steve, you persist on spreading the false report that I have somehow refused to deny Miscavige, while the evidence is right in plain site for everyone to see that I did so, calling him out as an SP in my very first post to this blog. You have also been active in spreading other false reports about me, using sympathy, dropping names, etc. And while I understand the need for security on your lines, you have something else going on here ethics-wise. While I have done my Doubt formula and am keeping with that, I am not one to stand idly by allowing someone to spread false reports about me.
You deserve (and have) your own song:
I don’t dig the flame war either – that’s something Steve and Bruce can mash out between themselves and it looks like both of them can hold their own.
As regards to how you handle your own life and how you choose to fight, at the end of the day it’s your choice and whether or not you or others consider this cowardice is purely a matter of viewpoint when all is said and done.
I’m not sitting in judgement on anyone and I’m not saying one shoe fits all, but there are some people who stay on the sidelines out of fear and that IS PTSness and a very uncomfortable position to be in. It’s also assigning OSA way too much power because they simply aren’t in a position to bully anyone once they’re confronted and stood up to.
I don’t fight because I’m naturally a fighter. I hate fighting. But if I really do want to get my loved ones out, I care enough about them to take a bullet or two for them and would hope that some of them would care enough to do the same for me some day. Factually, when those bullets are fully confronted they pass right through with no harm done.
It’s a shame you don’t give a damn. If everyone had that viewpoint (and without the Martys Steve Halls of this world) we wouldn’t be here would we?
Enjoy the ride RJ.
+1. Nicely put Samantha. Especially the part about the bullets.
You don’t dig the flame war but you sure create a lot yourself.
As far as you being a bot goes, nothing is certain, though I would bet against it.
You seem to be more the serfacy type who likes to make self right and others wrong but are overall well intentioned.
Oh give me a freaking break Sam and stop being so damn self righteous.
I’ve taken plenty of “bullets” while I was still in.
Excuse me if I don’t want to paint a target on my back while I’m out.
I suggest you read those policies I cited:
HCOPLs ‘PTS Handling’ and ‘First Policy’.
And get down off your god damn pedestal.
That goes for Mike as well.
You want to play those games that the GO was so adept at playing before they were infiltrated then go for it.
I’m not stopping you, Mike, Marty or anyone else from playing them.
If you want to get on your hind legs and expose the truth about the corrupt organization the Church of Scientology has become like the GO used to expose InterPol, Psychiatry, various Government Agencies etc that’s your prerogative.
And if you want to bare your breast to the “bullets” that group of ass clowns called OSA want to fire at you.
Then go for it.
But that ain’t my game as I wrote earlier.
My game is applying the technology to others.
Not to puff myself up with my own self importance and create some kind of cult that worships the warrior spirit.
Riddle me this bat girl:
How many people have you audited or trained today?
See ya around.
Got out on the wrong side of the bed this morning RJ?
Bit over the top don’t you think in response to a comment that anyone would have a hard time characterizing as outrageous?
If you are a standard tech kind of guy — what would you give as the technical reason for you lashing out like that? You are normally argumentatve, but not quite so vindictive.
But in the light; not in the shadows.
What does it matter?
As long as auditing gets done
Maybe I do have some BPC and that’s a fact but I wouldn’t say I was being vindictive.
Also it is possible that I did get on the wrong side of the bed this morning and possibly Sam’s comment just rubbed me the wrong way by twisting what I said to the generality “that I don’t give a damn” in general which isn’t even close to what I wrote.
Nor was I or am I currently on the “side lines” as she tried to imply.
As if I was kind of spectator.
I’m just not overt about my activities as others because as I wrote earlier I DO NOT WANT TO CREATE ANTAGONISM and I’d rather MAINTAIN FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PUBLIC and quietly go about auditing.
Instead of picking a fight with OSA.
I understand that you or Marty are unable to do this because you are both high value targets.
But me I nobody as far as OSA is concerned and I’d rather remain that way.
So as I wrote I’m not interested in getting into a distractive and prolonged battle with the forces of evil at this point which is as I wrote my prerogative.
So maybe I do have some BPC on the fact that this approach by some of us (me in particular) is just not accepted and acknowledged.
Thanks for the eval Tony,
I hope you didn’t miss the irony of trying to make me wrong by saying I was the ser facy type.
Fair enough RJ. Good answer.
I never said that I didn’t have any ser facs.
I don’t think it means that a person has to have serfacs if they make someone wrong.
You manifest ser facy behavior quite a bit but for the most part are cool. But you can get ugly and it’s not becoming.
As for eval, yes it is an eval. I’m not trying to audit you so don’t get too introverted on it. It’s just my opinion. You have your opinions and I have mine.
Yeah I agree I get ugly at times.
Remind you of anyone?
what I like about you is that you can self inspect and take responsibility when needed. Who can ask for more?
Peace my brother.
DM, Look into my pies….
Happy Pie Face
RJ, Respectuflly, I think you have missed the point and that’s why you are getting BPC. I didn’t call this guy a plant — who knows if he is a plant? It’s impossible to know. That isn’t the point of the article — which I didn’t even write most of it. I confronted him with the fact that he was doing the exact things mentioned in the article. Over to him to vindicate himself or not by clearly stating his opinion of Miscavige. Instead, he started nattering and spreading black PR. So I called him out on that too. That doesn’t = “he’s a spy.” It does = “he might be a spy” and so it would behoove him to straighten out the matter.
And exactly how is it that my repeatedly stating Miscavige is a suppressive person NOT stating my opinion of him? And please quote what you feel what Black PR and natter. If “complaining” about your false reports against me is considered natter, then so be it. As I said before, I will not stand by and tolerate your false reports. If you can state a fact, then state it. If it’s only a gut feeling you have about me, then call it as such.
Thanks for getting back to me Thoughtful Steve and helping to sort out what happened.
Because something definitely did happen to get us so riled up for no obvious reason
Probably the Third Party Law would apply here.
Personally I have no idea if we were being played or not but I just have a *feeling* that we probably were.
Bruce if you’re reading this I’d just like to know whose side you’re on?
Your “doubt formula” seemed somewhat questionable and left ….er….*doubts* as to who’s team you were actually on.
In my opinion a flaky cop out.
Now I’d be the last person to *force* anyone to do a doubt formula.
But if you’re going to do one.
At least do it right.
You know like it says in the policy!
Again thanks Steve for helping to clear this up.
Or Phil Spickler
I think my main problem with blaming everything on DM is that he is a second generation CoS. I tend to view people who were raised as children to be CoS members very differently than those who freely chose to join CoS as adults. Thing is DM was raised in the CoS when it was firmly under LRH’s control. Even more he was in the SO and a messenger directly under LRH for many years. So I have a hard time believing DM isnt the creation of a CoS & SO upbringing and mindset. I have a hard time believing he was just born some bad seed or SP. I have to wonder if DM became a monster of the CoS own creation. How does someone raised with all this superior tech, the stuff straight from LRH, turn out this way and further more get the reins of power?
(& no I don’t buy the DM PR that LRH saw him as a heir apparent, I don’t think LRH viewed anyone as his heir. I do believe DM strong armed his way into power via underhanded tactics. The fact still remains where did a guy surrounded by CoS ethics and tech learn it? Whatever else about DM we can debate fact is he is a 2nd gen and joined the SO as a child and worked as a messenger for LRH as a teenager, so it profoundly shaped the man he is today)
Well, I guess the best argument against yours is “what about the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands who grew up as Scientologists in the 70’s who turned out to be decent people?”
RJ, I was about to write a reply mentioning that a post of the decision to the group is the only thing required by the formula (which is true) but in re-examining the Doubt Formula to make sure, I realized that you were right about my not having done a full standard job of it. The part I totally left out is where it says to announce to both sides, and I in fact have not announced to the corporate CoS my decision to denounce them as squirrel and not be effect of their suppressive leader.
So that is my next thing to do and I do appreciate your sticking my face into the need to do that.
I do not see this changing my decision about this forum. I was told on a post here today that “we” will never know if Bruce Clark is a plant/bot/spy or not. Well, following that I am not a member of that “we” because I for one DO know conclusively whether I am a spy or not.
My point here is not to make anyone wrong, but even if it was all by my own doing, I have found this forum to be a source of a lot of BD’ing information, but not a safe space to put forth communication. Thanks.
This is an extremely *safe* forum compared to others I’ve been on.
(Try ARS if you’re really into to sadomasochism or any of the various “natter boards” as we call ’em)
Marty and Mike seem to run a pretty tight ship but the fact is just as long as you don’t natter about the Ol’man.
Or worse say that Miscavige is just “following policy” (pretty much a dead give away that you are either a complete idiot or work for OSA or do I repeat myself)
And try try try to apply the manners PL.
Yes I know it’s hard sometimes and it is one of biggest failing but we can at least try.
And finally but most importantly work out whatever upset you have Steve either on a back channel or right here.
Steve happens to carry a lot of cred in the independent community and has been posting for quite some time at Scientology-cult.
Aside from that he’s a really cool dude.
So show the guy a little respect.
You don’t have to agree with everything he says but instead of attacking you could respectfully disagree.
Anyway I hope this helps.
For the most part this is a safe group.
And though it may seem otherwise due to sensitivity of the topic being discussed we don’t spend our time outing OSA spies.
These guys pretty much out themselves.
Anyway stick around Bruce and you might get to like this place.
First of all SMQ you obviously haven’t read any of my earlier posts to even suggest that I would “blame” Miscavige for what has happened to the Church.
I never accepted the “lone Miscavige theory” as I call it.
Secondly Miscavige never worked directly for Ron as a messenger he was part of CMO not an personal LRH Messenger.
So right there on those two points your little narrative falls apart or is at least very tenuous maybe not as tenuous as Miscavige’s claim to authority but still flaky as far as I’m concerned.
Thirdly Miscavige has had very little actual training or processing in Scientology.
So what if he was in Scientology all his life?
I’ve known kids who were born to Scientologists and never did a comm course.
It’s like so what?
However most importantly you or anyone else who claims that Miscavige is just “following policy” has not given me AN EXACT LRH POLICY THAT MISCAVIGE IS FOLLOWING.
I don’t deny they (good, productive 2nd gen Scientologists) exist, probably in great numbers, but it seems so many people from that era (I’m speaking of members raised under LRH tech, not what is viewed as the current DM tech) are distanced from Scientology today for many reasons. When you read what is out there from the second generation, raised before the total control of DM, you don’t find a chorus of happy voices. Due to the poor conditions of the cadet orgs & SO parents far more focused on post than raising children and even if they tried to be their for their kids had few resources and little time to do it properly.
To be upfront on my perspective on this I’ve never been involved in Scientology bu I am married to someone who was raised as a second gen (parents met in the SO) Scientologist. My spouse has no
connection to CoS today and is bitter towards the whole subject. Though he has spent years suppressing it, his childhood in the CoS has had a profoundly negative effect on what he had of a childhood and on his family. (he also joined to SO at a young age, but left soon after reaching adulthood) I’m asking questions trying to understand the subject, the conditions & effects of a CoS childhood and help him overcome some of the issues he has struggled with for years.
true… not sure who said this, but it still rings true: Corruption never has been compulsory.
“The necessary and welcome economic growth within our Sangha, in the form of business operations and commercial and domestic investments, has brought along as a by—product an increasing frequency of disagreements and disputes. There is a need for our society to provide resources for the sane, nonagressive resolution of such conflicts in keeping with the principles of Dharma and the Great Eastern Sun. Accordingly I have decided to institute and appoint the Upaya Council. The function of the Upaya Council shall be to mediate and/or arbitrate commercial and domestic disputes among members of the Vajradhatu community, as individuals, groups, or businesses. It shall be the initial task of the Upaya Council to propose to me and my Privy Council a set of guidelines under which it shall operate. There shall be no internal hierarchy within the Upaya Council and each member shall have an equal voice; the findings of the Council shall be arrived at by unanimous consent.”
~ Vajracarya the Venerable Chogyam Trungpa, Rinpoche, Spring, 1979.