– attributed to Buddha
Confidential
Attorney-Client Privileged
April 11, 2006
RICHARD LEIBY
A friend asked Leiby how his trip to California was. He said that it was terrible because of the rain. They know each other through Ida, and she knew he had been in California working on an article. The topic initially was Ida and some concern about her health.
Leiby said that he has been busy working in other priorities. When the friend wished him good luck on his story on Scientology, he went down tone. The friend commented that he did not appear to be enthusiastic about it. Leiby response was, “sometime other things take priority and you get taken off something and don’t get excited any longer.” Leiby said that it would take some months before he does anything with the Scientology story and he said it as if he had no idea himself of when this would be. He then told the friend that he doesn’t have an exact timing or deadline to do it.
The friend wished him well and ended the conversation.
CHUCK BEATTY:
As he’s usually close to Lerma and plugged in to “media” the subject came up in a routine conversation with a friend. Beatty said that he used to get two or three calls a month from young reporters who asked him questions like “does Scientology brainwash?” Beatty was nattering about these reporters because they asked him stupid questions and it clearly showed that they didn’t do their homework. Beatty said that he is not qualified to answer such a question anyway. The friend then brought up having seen an article by Leiby from last year (on the web). Beatty said that he knows of Leiby and that he is a very good reporter, but he did not know of anything that Leiby is doing in PT.
—
Expecting data still from other sources.
end
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Great quote Marty.
Marty,
Great quotation by the Buddha!
Whatever foe may do to foe,
or haters those they hate
the ill-directed mind indeed
can do one greater harm.
Dhammapada ch3:43
Attributed to the Buddha.
See you after Vesak(May)!
Grasshopper and windhorse,
You are very welcome. I will now be on leave until the end of Vesak as I will be devoting more time to the Dhamma.
I am very impressed by the devotion to Scientology on this blog. The regular members especially convey a sense of deep intelligence and insight. There is also a freedom inspired by Marty and Mike which is so refreshing. It reminds me of the Kalama Sutta in which the Buddha expressed the idea of the complete freedom of thought for everyone in regard to religious matters.
I shall add a special section to regular Pali Chanting this month for the well-being and happiness of ALL. May all beings be well and happy! May the Devas render assistance to the cause of freedom.
Good god!
Do you suggest I go through my own phone records and figure out who this friend is, or do you already know!
I’m certainly not being called and my opinions asked at all anymore, these days. So this “friend” doesn’t have me on their radar anymore.
People who are close to Mike and Marty will be the ones who get approached by “friends” asking for what the “plan” is and what media are doing stories on Scientology, etc.
This whole GO/OSA game of trying to contain and “nip in the bud” upcoming critical press and “anti” Scientology coverage is a whole wrong activity.
I’ve always thought that any flaws in the Scientology repertoire need to be dealt with, so Scientology ceases causing the controversies that they (OSA) are trying to prevent being exposed in the media!
“Friends” who are asking for the latest of what Marty and Mike are doing, those are the ones doing the intel gathering today.
It’s so stupid though. Why can’t Scientologists just defend their beliefs publicly, and not have the OSA filter doing the “handling” of critics.
The GO and OSA are institutional crutches which don’t let Scientologists speak freely and fully about the WHOLE Bridge to Total Freedom, in all it’s theory and practical details, and including the theory of the “upper levels”.
Scientology doesn’t need OSA. And to me, the “upper level” confidentiality rules, are a fundamental block on free communication and discussion, and I don’t buy ANY of the reasons as valid, for avoiding full discussion of the no longer secrets of OT 3 and NOTs, and all the other formerly confidential tech and confidential theory.
Scientology’s verbal data rules are also overly constraining in discussing the hard questions that Scientologists SHOULD become individually trained enough to answer, without resorting to ad hominem character assassination tactics. (“Who’s Xenu?” “What are body thetans?”)
This intel atmosphere that Scientology runs on its parishioners and critics and ex official members who are independents and freezone Scientologists, and against all “enemies” of Scientology, is a menace and counter productive.
Professor Hugh Urban from Ohio State University is studying OSA.
I hope he carries through someday and publishes, and I hope he somehow gets to see the docs. Which is really the reason I gave the okay to have the FULL unedited version of of the “Handling Beatty” program put into the public domain.
Experts in universities who are paid to research new religions should have access to the raw docs.
People wanting to contact Professor Hugh Urban, here’s his info:
Hugh B. Urban
Professor, Religious Studies
Department of Comparative Studies
Ohio State University
431 Hagerty Hall
Columbus, OH 43210
urban.41@osu.edu
614-292-9855 (o)
614-447-0706 (h)
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Scientology/Mind-Over-Matter.aspx?p=1
Chuck
Chuck, Thanks. Yes, any light you can shine on this will be valuable.
“Ida” in the above certainly refers to Ida Camburn, a staunch Old Guard warrior against the tyranny of suppression brought down onto Scientology by David Miscavage.
Sadly, she has passed away on 1 Sep 2010.
Michael A. Hobson
Just google the “Barbra Streisand Effect” to discover the utterly futile and completely counter-productive game the Cult of $ is playing. They are simply fanning the already considerable flames of the relentless negative publicity about their “church”!
Hugs!
John in Austin
Marty
I posted a Policy the other day entitled “Attacks on Scientology”.
Well damned if I wasn’t looking for a reference on “fair Game” when I came across this one. (Actually the next issue in the OEC volume 7, p. 491.)
I am only posting part of the first section, but the policy is an interesting read and shines yet more light on how far off the rails Scientology Inc. has gotten on this subject.
Here it is: ( start of fair use)
“HCO PL 18 Feb 1966
ATTACKS ON SCIENTOLOGY
(continued)
(This Pol Ltr augments HCO Pol Ltr of
15 Feb 66, Attacks on Scientology)
When you hold up an image of freedom, all those who oppress freedom tend to attack. Therefore attacks, on whatever grounds, are inevitable. Holding up a freedom image is however the only successful forward action even though it is attacked.
It remains then to take the handling of attacks off emergency, predict them and handle them by proper tactics and administrative machinery.
The first group of actions have not been effective in handling attacks: (The G stands for Group, the following are three different Groups of actions):
G.1.1. Hiring outside professional firms:
G.1.2. Writing Scientologists to write their representative in government:
G.1.3. Advertising the attack to the Scientology “field”;
G.1.4 Being carefully legal in our utterances.
This second Group of Actions has been of some small use in deterring attacks:
G.2.1. Direct letters from the org to a Congress or Parliament (ruined the US Siberia Bill):
G.2.2. Circulating pamphlets about the attack (got rid of Wearne out of the Enquiry);
G.2.3. Suits against sources of libel or slander.
The third Group of Actions have been positive in stopping attacks:
G.3.1. Investigating noisily the attackers;
G.3.2. Not being Guilty of anything;
G.3.3. Having our corporate status in excellent condition;
G.3.4. Having our tax returns and books accurate and punctual;
G.3.5. Getting waivers from all people we sign up;
G.3.6. Refunding money to dissatisfied people;
G.3.7. Having our own professionals firmly on staff (but not halfway on staff);
G.3.8. Going on advertising total freedom;
G.3.9. Surviving and remaining solvent by stepping up our own usual activities;
G.3.10. My catching the dropped balls goofed by others and hired professionals;
G.3.11. Being religious in nature and corporate status.”
(end of fair use)
Seems like the “indies” have a much better handle on this than Scientology Inc.
WW
Please note the terms “a friend” “the friend” not “his friend”
It is not our friends who are evil. The evil resides in those who poison their minds, turning family members and loved ones against one another. What these friends try to do to us (‘the intentional wounding of minds’) has already been done to them.
This too shall come to pass.
Sapere Aude ,
Thanks for the hatting. I’m putting my ‘new found skill’ to good use 😉
A wise quote there from the old father assuming it was his wisdom. Too late to save Thor on this planet.
I think it is criminal for OSA to use the same old tactics to try and destroy anyone who dares to have an independent thought about the Church and all their illegal actions. What a demented game they play using LRH tech to always, always make themselves right and everyone else wrong. I am sick and tired of hearing their justification that this is the way to bring freedom to the people and clear the planet.
Freedom is a cesspool like that – impossible. Slavery under a benign boss would be preferable.
I liked the opening quote a lot.
Like that is a big distinction?
related news:
http://gawker.com/5801298/secret-files-show-scientology-stalked-another-reporter
Absofrigginlutly!
I don’t know of any LRH statement to the effect that getting one hands “dirty” was acceptable. Even HCOPL 16 Feb 69 TARGETS, DEFENSE reiterates this position of keep our own house and staff and members in good order.
Let the Sun Shine In. I hope this is appropriate accompaniment:
Bruce Pratt
So one successful action for handling attacks is “not being guilty of anything”? Boy, did that one get dropped out!
Hey Sam … good job applying your ‘new found skill!’ I am not nearly so proficient. Could you please link Guns N’ Roses’ song “Civil War” up the queue under Communications Course?’s link? If you can do it, thanks! H
Chuck — I have taken a line from your comment:
“This intel atmosphere that Scientology runs on its parishioners … .”
I can personally express this as true when a well-known Scientologist has departed this life. It wasn’t always that way, you know. But, by the year 2004 and with the circumstances I observed, it was quite obviously an “intel atmosphere.” And, it continued well beyond the bounds of common sense and decency.
For the last 2 years I find that I have been swimming in uncharted waters. These are good waters and they will definitely take me some where. I find, though, that there are a lot more dangers in these waters than normal.
As time goes on you learn more and more how dangerous the waters become. Sometimes a pretty fish turns out to be deadly. After a while you begin to suspect all of the pretty fishes. Then all fishes. Then all water. No good.
And I have had people befriend me for reasons not survival to me. I have had “friends” take advantage of me. But I don’t care, really.
Here’s where I am at: I cannot live in a world where I have to be wary of people befriending me. If someone wants to befriend me for reasons other than my friendship or company, then let them do it. It’s their stupid game. But I am going to see to it that their life is going to be all that much better for doing it. I will somehow inject theta into their miserable existence and make them better for knowing me.
This way I can live in peace.
I’m learning boss.
ML Tom
Tom, I hear you and feel you on this one.
Putting it here for you 🙂
Just copy and paste the URL from the address bar.
+1
Tom, I think we are all moving up a little higher. When we connect to theta we become more theta and the entheta although disappointing just becomes a silly game. I don’t play the entheta game. Love, Sargio
G.3.2 – Not being guilty of anything.
Amen! Fundamental. Stupidly fundamental. This is so damn key to the whole shooting match. People with overts put themselves to the effect of those they have overts against.
First of all, it is not cool to do illegal things on the face of it. We are good people. Illegality should not even enter the picture. But,
Second of all, if you do indulge temptation to go outside the law for a “higher cause,” you are still committing an overt, and the whole O/W sequence kicks in.
HCOB 5 October 1961 “Clean Hands Make a Happy Life” – M9 Start Rate, starting with OSA and Mr. David Miscavige
Rachel,
This ‘intel’ atmosphere (using the term as an oxymoron in this context) is way over the top of ANY necessity for it. It’s an altered importance of the subject in the present. So what if Lieby is doin an article on CST. It makes NO difference what he writes at this point or in 2006 for that matter, since there is no need to withhold the existence or function of CST. The ONLY possble issue relative to CST that DM wants withheld is HIS unmock of its corporate structure and the very real illegalities of that.
This whole anachronism of the ‘under attack’ atmosphere at this juncture is for the vast majority of cases a DM manufacture.
For those several cases that it isn’t, well DM sucks at this subject, so they don’t get handled.
He’s a study in illogic.
Absolutely. Better to be open and be burned occasionally than be closed and sitting in the dark, all alone. And it is always better to spread theta than hold it back.
There is nothing I can add to that but to agree wholeheartedly!
Peace, GW.
Marty,
The following quote by LRH from the above PL just struck me:
“When you hold up an image of freedom, all those who oppress freedom tend to attack. Therefore attacks, on whatever grounds, are inevitable. Holding up a freedom image is however the only successful forward action even though it is attacked.”
What C of $ and OSA opposes is Freedom. We stand for Freedom. That is what we are all about. This is what the C of $ and OSA attacks. Freedom of the press is the enemy of OSA. Freedom to be there and communicate is the enemy of OSA. In short, freedom is not needed and wanted by the C of M. But freedom is what they promise. Freedom is their bait. Freedom is their trap.
So we are going to be attacked when we free people by either getting them on board with us or when Marty or any other Indy Auditor frees them in session and advertises their successes. I don’t believe the C of $ has spent as much money on any single project as they have on stopping Marty and the rest of us. They probably spend more money on us than on advertising Dianetics and Scientology.
Ergo, if we want to accelerate the demise of the C of $ we advertise on all fronts Indy Freedom. Success stories from Indies will probably drive Dear Leader INSANE
ML Tom
Tom, that mechanism has definitely been in play. Gonna expand on this soon, talking strategy.
+1. Tom, This shows what a decent and good being you are. You still have the intention to inject theta into their entheta game. You win and they “may” if they take the opportunity also come out a little better. You show good intentions in the face of their evil intentions. Why – because you are the better person. Another great difference between Indie’s and bots – enjoy your peace my friend.
Village Voice adds some context:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/05/scientology_sta.php
Tom.
Yes. I’m with you there.
I think I’ll wax all Philosophical here, for a moment.
Living in the MEST universe at all, these eons, is not particularly “safe”.
But, if you consider that you are immortal, and you hold that the “Theta MEST Theory” has some merit, then with a little “daring do” you can get into the “game” of it all.
It may seem to some that they have too much to lose, but take pause for a moment and notice that you are still here, after all the wreckage, suppression, betrayal, and whatnot. You are still here! And not really in such bad shape when you come to realize how much force has been leveled against you.
You are immortal, so you cannot really lose totally.
You get into the occasional scrap with the physical universe and it’s inhabitants, perhaps get your hair mussed up a bit, and withdraw briefly to lick your wounds. But you LEARNED something! If you take what you have learned and apply it to survival ends, you get bigger. If you use it to justify hiding, or getting revenge, you will inevitably make your dynamics smaller and less under your control.
I used to feel that “life isn’t fair”. There were abundant examples I could cite to “prove” my point. But the real reason that “life isn’t fair” is because we have each abandoned some of our own “cause”. We have attributed our own cause elsewhere. The very consideration that “life isn’t fair” is a perfect example of this. We have allowed, or even encouraged, another agency to come between us and our own dynamics.
Now THAT is not “safe”.
So here is my wish for all beings:
May we all have total access to the data and experiences of our pasts. May we come to be able to use this data and our own “Reason”, to live in happiness in the present, and to shape our futures toward optimum survival across the dynamics.
Let there be FUN!
Let there be ACTION!
Let there be LIFE!
Let there be FREEDOM!
WW
♥
🙂
Important Notice
Slight derail – sorry, but this is something all should be aware of:
The official Church position on “harassment” as of today is that it is automatically a police matter. Today I received a letter from my Cont Justice Chief (HFA) Snr Has UK and some time OSA chappy Rupert Pady. It states in part “You have come to the Church with a friend of yours also expelled from the Church with a film camera trying to create a stunt out of delivering a letter that should have been put in the mail instead. I MUST PUT YOU ON NOTICE THAT ANY FURTHER HARASSMENT WILL BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE.”
That’s right, when you are being harassed by OSA or a DM stooge, they EXPECT you to report it. It’s your DUTY.
[BTW, anyone who saw the video of this will see only too clearly who is harassing who; I had no option but to hand-deliver my correspondence as I was getting no joy with conventional letters. The security guard immediately intercepts me, and says on his radio to “bring the other guards” then “get the DSA” and “get OSA”. All in all there were at least 5 staff surrounding me. I clearly posed no threat, did not raise my voice or antagonise anyone, just for the record. St Hill is open to the public and visitors are “welcome” according to the web site].
Sam, I actually believed that ad. Trust is nonnegotiable. Thanks for posting that. It brings back wonderful memories, and also reminds me of the loss of what I thought I had found.
Tom, you learned a good one there. Its a very useful bit of wisdom that we cannot control what others do or their intentions, but we can control how we react to it and/or view it. Its liberating.
Corporate scientology has always attempted to control both sides. And it cannot be controlled. That attempt has been at the root of most of the problems they have had with the public. Whether it was PR or Intel actions it was pretty much a wasted effort at best and destructive at worst.
In a world gone mad scientology went mad right along with it. Not blaming anyone. Human faults. It could have been a different course chartered, it just wasnt. Hopefully the lessons have been well learned by those willing to pick up the pieces and carry on.
I’ll be any part of that strat!
ML Tom
DM is one of the most paranoid people on this planet. He is constantly after others witholds and what they know about HIM. Anyone looking at him is enough. But to investigate him-OMG! there isn’t enough money to go after someone doing that.
Marty is in a class by himself in this regard and that is why Marty is his public enemy #one.
Marty,
Maybe the Squirrel Group that calls itself the “Church of Scientology” should ask itself why at this point it has such an ARCXn Field.
Of course since it has become a suppressive group itself.
Self inspection isn’t one of its strong points.
Hope you’re taking notes OSA.
For what it’s worth – I was once told many,many years ago, by a GO Invest staff member that he was the one that started the whole going-through-people’s-trash form of intell in the GO. He was no longer in the GO by then, but hired as a PI.
Marty and Mike – you certainly know how and when to strike. I can imagine the “high alert” that many senator’s and congressmen’s aides are on re: Corp Scn. Make no mistake about it. When you go after someone who is now senior editor of one of the most respected papers in the country, and election season is coming up……
Sam:
I wonder 2 things:
Were any of these people really Scientologists or just actors? and If any of these people were actual Scientologists are they still? because I don’t recognize any of them.
But, this was from the 80’s and it is 2011? Like 30 years later? Did the planet go Clear yet Sam? Weren’t they talking about this on the news that the whole state of Iowa attested to OT III? {LOL}.
The church just doesn’t get any real results because the people that are in it believe LRH’s tech is something that can be used to lure people into the church to vicitimzize them in one way or another, meaning that church is composed of insane ones. Tom Cruise being at the top of the list, second only to David Miscavige and Kirsty Alley. Kirsty Alley is SO… PTS. I have never seen a woman before that professes to know so much about weight loss and spirituality, whose wieght goes up and down up and down up and down, rollercoastering, Unbelievable.
Thor:
The other day I say a movie with you in it. {sic}. “Thor: God Of Thunder” starring Chris Hemsworth. Oh my god!! Chris Hemsworth is not an independent or corporate Scientologist but he is one of the most sexiest men on Earth in his clothes or out of them. That must have been you in the movie because your name is Thor! {LOL}. Do they have a rundown for this sort of thing? Most guys hate being chased down the street by a gang of 13 screaming girls!!
RJ, “Maybe the Squirrel Group that calls itself the “Church of Scientology should ask itself why at this point it has such an ARCXn Field”. Agreed,well from what I hear, members of this so-called church continue to point fingers at one or two in their field that are classified as SP’s. Then go on to place all the blame on them. A lot of power is granted to the one or two individuals.
I so agree self inspection is not one of its strongest points and quite frankly never has been.
Martin, these goons don’t have a clue about harassment because they do it all the time and it is natural to them.
Ingrid +1
Kirstie Alley wouldn’t act on Frasier because it’s about a psychiatrist but she mugs in photos sucking whipped cream off her finger and calls herself a whore (seriously on twitter etc) not my ideal example of a woman (or weight loss! LOL) It’s kind of like she’s being right about grossness 😦
Doesn’t Kirstie Alley look like Katie Holmes in this photo? Lookee the sideways crooked smile smirk is exactly identical. Do they know something we don’t? lol
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1707314176/nm0000263
sorry to be off topic but out points are outpoints.
I want to show one of DMs early training films-this is before pieface was enforced. I hope I can get this video on.
Thanks so much Sam! I’ll try it next time … L, H
Lana — I’ve been around quite a while and don’t recognize any of the actors/actresses.
Thanks for the comment, Jim.
I’ve thought about your response for most of the afternoon and come up with this:
Creating an “intel atmosphere” is like “smoke and mirrors,” but mostly the smoke which hides the illegal unmock of the CST corporate structure by DM. To go off talking or doing something about the smoke is the altered importance when one should confront and handle the illegal unmock of the CST corporate structure by DM.
Do I have it? (Be glad I didn’t give my football game example; you would have laughed!)
Rather than get into semantics on how the word “friend” was used, how about if we just switch to “fiend”? It fits.
uhm…….you think?
Re: Kirstie Alley – I do have to say that I’m an admirer of Ms. Alley. First of all, she’s a terrific actress, comedy to tragedy and back again, does it all and extremely well. Personally, she’s “kinda kooky” – seems like she’d be a lot of fun as a friend. Yeah, so she’s fat at times and can’t stop eating – well, I’ve learned over the years that even with lots of case gain, we all have our zones of “no total freedom” in our lives. So freaking what? Have as much fun in life as you can and treat others well and extend halep to them – those are my words of wisdom for today. Kirstie – keep eating and keep dancing, baby! And if you get the chance, make some love too – it brightens the day.
Sneaking around and looking through people’s trash! Is it really easier than picking up the phone or getting in communication?
What a respectable activity for a “Church” — and even more bizarre, since when was it okay for Scientology to attack, libel and harass artists? Anyone notice there are more artists and celebrities leaving than robotic?
WW – you are SO freaking right, I’m gonna go out soon and get some blueberry yougurt and enjoy it. You know, if the New Orleans Saints can win the Super Bowl and the San Francisco Giants can win the Worl Series IN THE SAME FREAKING YEAR, all things in life are possible!
No, you don’t, Sarge. XOX
Pretty good.
Also think Merchant of Chaos creating an environment amenable for hispurposes. An intel atmosphere implys danger lurks.
Bruce Pratt
v — and that trust is, in my humble opinion, what keeps some so anchored in their own viewpoints. LRH detailed how help became betrayal. And in the aims details how that will not happen again. So, under that A=A of Miscavige=Scientology, of course he will not betray us — can’t happen. I’ve found that think hard to crack.
Potent parcel of upset and charge, that betrayal.
That promise of a better tomorrow, potent too. I think we, outside the VC0D, are doing that — movin’ on up a little higher.
Bruce Pratt
+2 Soldier of Light.
Bruce Pratt
VCoD operating definition of harassment: Communication neither controlled nor caused by VCoD.
Sorry cat.
My 2 cents.
Bruce Pratt
Lana, re Kristy Alley, my thoughts precisely…lots of MASS.
Ingrid, LOL
I think it means the same in the context. Are you saying that they meant he was a friend of the Church? I don’t think so dude.
Ingrid. LOL! Nothing like proper gradients, and total unbalance between intelligence and use of force, eh? A perfect demonstration how some people, while appearing to function (as the drill sergeant), are living in their own world and don’t see reality at all! Surrounded by foes. The why is the raspberry. Oh this illustrates so many outpoints. Thank you for the laughter!!
Rachel,
Unfortunately, and Jim and others who remember it, there’s the LRH policy on the relative overall seniority of what LRH said, called the “Seniority of Orders” policy.
What has happened, is the top dog, Mr. Miscavige, has warped the seniority of orders.
The GO/OSA LRH writings, and the other private writings and some public, like even RJ 38 (which I, atheist ex Scientologist, but advowed super interested ex member, listened to 3X times the other night), LRH in RJ 38 gives almost carte blanche “okay on your okay” to DM and others that were reporting the latest news to LRH back in 1983 when LRH spoke what he spoke in RJ 38, and it is my “expert” opinion that LRH’s comments in RJ 38 and LRH’s despatch traffic to ASI in the 1980s, is what Mr. David Miscavige is using as his “marching orders.”
As opposed to policy. And per LRH in “Senior of Orders” policy, it is policy that is senior to orders by a long shot, yet, DM is operating on LRH’s final years of writings to DM, and DM due to his own personal case deficiencies, is dramatizing his own perversion of LRH’s final years of tweeking orders to “top management”, of that “top management” DM always has considered himself the ultimate “arbiter” and final deciding point, that is, until Pat Broeker and Annie relinquished their even more intimate positions as being right there with LRH, when LRH made his final years’ comments about all matters relating to Scientology.
Ah, Rachel, I wish we could all “let our hair down” and just talk freely.
I so appreciate your going public, Rachel, it’s not easy and I have to commend you!!!!!!!
You being at ASI for so many years, you had a unique viewpoint of the people at ASI dancing this way and that, to all the fads DM ran on ASI, my god what a era of elitism.
I had always wished that Scientology wasn’t so stratified and elitist, and while it was a privelege to be “in the know” is also rubbed me the wrong way, and even though I am not a Scientologist, I have to admire freezone Scientologists and independent Scientologists for just getting back to basic Scientology!
Thanks so much for commenting here Rachel!!!
Chuck
But the truth is that Kirsty Alley is acting psychotic on the “Dancing with the star”. She is definitely not setting a good example as a celeb Scientologist for David Miscavige.
There’s a video?
Carol,
I don’t know what orgs you were connected to but the one’s I worked in were pretty much willing to admit they’d made an error and even do a Free ARCX session to resolve any upset.
(You know just like it says in the policies)
Also I don’t remember this constant effort blame the field when Ron was on the lines and even for a short period after he left.
So as far as I’m concerned this phenomenon is relatively new and is similar to the Auditor blaming the PC.
Jim,
You are SO right in your comments!
After the 1992 “War Is Over” event, the regs at ASI were ALL in a state of “What The Fuck!!!!” For years, the Regs at ASI were getting slapped around for talking details of CST, and “what the hell!!” DM in the “War Is Over” event just goes into all sorts of “confidential” details about CST (of course the media had exposed in the early 1990s, I read it myself in the “OSA passarounds” (see below for definition of “OSA passarounds”), DM spilled more “confidential” info on CST in the “War Is Over” 1992 IAS Yearly event, than ANY of the ASI regs who routinely got slapped around for detailing details about CST!
Oh god, there are SO MANY details of history, so much pointing to hipocrasy, and admitted, I could have DM being a better human being, I think we all wished DM were a better human being, but he’s “failed us”, granted, and we’re “stuck with him” and he’s engineered years of his own “downtown” fads that had left a whole sub trail that blemishes the better points of LRH’s, and I guess this is “history” for planet earth, and none of “us” ever squared off and knocked DM off his thrown, he is/was a formidable little “player”, he’s “won” the king of the mountain, and I’m sure many of us have contemplated having MORE positively influenced Scientology history; my sentence structure sucks, but I mean to say overally you nailed it Jim!
(God you were fun working for, when I was your Chief OEC Sup, and you were D of T, you had “pluck”, the English “pluck”!)
Chuck
Ditto!!!!!
Even though I am NOT a Scientologist, I’m a born again atheist, I am completely otherwise DITTO with what you say!!!
Just be regular citizen again, is what I tell the people who call me on the 866-XSEAORG “toll free line” and if people are just left Flag, and want some help, I will refer them to Marty.
Gosh, people ought to just be what they want to be!!!
LRH said people are basically good! I agree!!! I think people will sort whatever problems they are having, out, one way or the other, and I just think helping the person in front of you, is the normal human thing to do!!!
You are a good person Tom!
This blog is priceless also, I’m so glad, even though I am far from being a Scientologist, to see people talking like free normal human beings here, and NOT worrying about the OSA tactics, because human behavior and demonstration of good human character transcends ANY of the crappy intel crap that even the down deep good people at OSA are oblidged to do, is my viewpoint. (OSA staff I found one for one, good people, stuck for their own personal reasons doing a form of institutionalized “evil” in so many respects tragically, despite their individual goodness, which is why I forgive them carte blanche, and wish they each someday return to freedom that exists out here.)
Thanks again Marty for going public, and setting up this blog, letting us ex and continuing Scientologists comment!!!! This freezone/independent dialogue conversation is a good thing!
LRH would have adapted to the freezone/independent movement, undoubtedly, in a manner NOT being done by DM.
I’m a positive hopeful type, and hope DM does evolve, and somehow does MORE to make official Scientology less dreadful. (I fear he is sort of like Richard Gere’s charater in the movie “Officer and a Gentleman”, where Richard says in desperations “I have no where else to go!” when the drill sargeant was trying to pressure Richard to quit.) DM can’t quit, he has nothing else!
I think the best we ex official members can do, is impact/embarrass/expose/influence DM, to get him to react in a ways that lessen the suffering predicaments official Scientologists are suffering.
(My own atheist long range thoughts, eternal to Scientology, are that whatever happens is fine, it’s everyone’s Scientology who participates in somehow changing away from this dreadful current period.)
Freezone and independent Scientologists have “won” the game of Scientology, in my atheist expert ex member view, in the moral highground aspect. Freezone and independent Scientologists are at least in communication freely with the wider world!!!
Chuck
Oh Marty,
On a whole other level, I DO think we as citizens DO have GOOD media.
Tony Ortega, I am so glad he, and others like him, exist!
Tony has so done his homework, he’s in a whole other class of reporter, in my opinion.
I said it before, but I’ll repeat it, when you FIRST emailed me, for my pick of which media would get your story correct, meaning in my mind which media would walk right down ALL the details, I said Tony Ortega!
Fucking Tony Ortega needs to get some sort of mention in media back slapping awards, in my opinion, for being so goddamned ahead of the curve on Scientology history!!!!
I personally believe, and never has failed to believe in the free press, and this tiny update in Village Voice is right on top of Scientology history!
Thankyou Village Voice, and thankyou Tony Ortega!
What I most would love to see, is this “friend” to go public and call Marty, and Marty and Tony lay out the truth of what our “friend” has been doing!
Scientology does NOT need the OSA tactics. Scientology apologizing and dropping the OSA tactics (the LRH Guardian’s Office tech that DM micromanaged and ensured continued to exist to guide Office of Special Affairs today) is the BEST thing official Scientology could DO!
I’m so glad of our media, personally, for listening to “us” (Scientologists and ex official Scientologists, for our tiny little story. Thankyou bigtime Tony for even listening to “us”).
Chuck
Lana,
1. I believe the people in the video were on-lines public – that’s the usual pool used for these films as far as I know but I wasn’t there when the film was made so I can’t answer that question.
No the planet didn’t go clear.
But what is happening within the Scientology community is that the theta-entheta ratio is reversing by virtue of mass De-PTSing. Clear evidence that Scientology is working now that it is being correctly applied outside of the suppressive environment of the church.
I couldn’t comment on Kirstie. I don’t know the details of her personal life or her current stance on the church well enough to evaluate.
Ditto V
RJ
Not that new.
At Flag 2 years ago I queried why so many staff members were off post sick and was told that there was an SP in the field and they were trying to find out who it was. Very much ‘blaming the PC’.
Yes Flag is very willing to pull in off-lines public for an ‘ARCX’ handling. I was offered a free auditing by a Class XII last year (a year after being verbally declared). The problem was that this ARCX handling was actually an opportunity to pull my ‘withholds’ and prove it’s ‘all me’ so I could be gotten back under control. It isn’t ARCX handling, it’s behavior modification (implanting).
It isn’t new.
But RELATIVELY new. Yes.
I honestly doubt that setting a good example for David Miscavige is anything thought would garner any kind of merit from him to the person setting the good example. Good examples make David Miscavige LOOK BAD because he ALWAYS SETS BAD EXAMPLES so most people that do try to set good examples for him are declared. Ask some of them yourself. I have.
I know what happened to me in Scientology and for a long time I was wondering if there was anybody else that might have had the same or similar type of bad time like I had. I couldn’t find anybody until the internet came along. Now there are thousands of people telling their stories. If what happened to me, happened to me, and it is no pretty story, and it is a story that is not for sale, then I used to ask myself “What is the probability that something like what happened to me could have happened to somebody else? Can I be the only one?” Ever since I realized the true answer to that question I always believe a former church member when they leave if I get to talk to them. I want to hear what they have to say. They need a good listener, and I know they are telling the truth.
Kirsty Alley has about as much influence in this society as a Shirelles record. She got her whole Bridge. Yet, there are people that have been in the Sea Org for over 20 years that have never even went Clear. And David Miscavige tells them they are helping man.
No, my dear, it is like Marty Rathbun has said, the David Miscavige IMPLANT STATION. Those poor souls trapped in the Sea Org right now are bound their by their ethics, their morals, their belief in LRH tech and being used, used, used, used for corrupt, perverted purposes.
David Miscavige may be a somebody of sorts in the Sea Org, but out here in the real world he is a true nobody. All a judge has to hear is the word Scientology and you can expect the worst for the church. I am glad it is that way. Why should anybody trust those people for? And there are many in the Sea Org who think David Miscavige is some kind of deity. Excuse me, what? A diety? Perhaps he should put Kirsty Alley in charge of the Sea Org because she goes dancing with movie stars.
Hey Chuck,
It’s good to see you in here pitching with us even though you are a confirmed atheist.
(BTW the offer for a free review session is still there if you ever get down to LA)
Yeah I know.
Listening to RJ 38 in hind sight with the luxury of rear view mirrors you wonder:
What the hell was the Ol’man thinking????????
But then you also got to consider that the Ol’man was getting old and he wasn’t getting any younger.
So some young turks came along and managed to convince him that they were a “clean team” and that they had taken care of those nasty “infiltrators” that had “infiltrated” the GO who trying to seize control of the organization and that they had established RTC to “preserve and protect” the technology.
Just sign on the dotted line Old Man and we’ll take care of everything from hereon out.
And so it took almost a decade to find out that they were actually running a ***false flag**** operation and that actually it was a carefully orchestrated ***coup***.
However none of us knew this at the time until the confusion had finally blown off and we found that some retard who probably couldn’t tie his own shoe laces without assistance had somehow taken over.
He didn’t know much but he knew one thing and that was that “power depended on having people listen to you”. Probably something that he picked up not from Ron since he is so ignorant of policy and tech (since he didn’t know that “Between Lives Implants” is an actual LRH lecture on Night Line) but probably from his good friend Bob Gray of H&K.
Anyway people who should have known better took this moron seriously and actually listened to the little twerp who was whether he or they knew or not working for the other side.
You know the ***dark side*** and here we are today going.
WTF?????????
Anyway going back to when RJ 38 was released a lot of confusion was going on.
A lot of confusion that gave us the fixed aberrated stable datum known as “Miscavige”.
Now I got what you’re saying about the HCOPL “Seniority of Orders”.
Because that PL plus “Orders Illegal and Cross” have been grossly ***violated***.
In fact the whole Franchise Fiasco was in direct violation of the PL ‘Ethics and Franchise’ and even if Ron *ordered* it it still should have been queried per the HCOPL “Orders Query of” but it seems nobody did.
I mean I would’ve but like most Scientologists I found out about it after the fact when it was proudly reported in what was ironically called “‘KSW’ News”.
All I could say was oh well like WTF?
It was a done deal.
A fait accompli.
A direct hit against the Mission Network but the hits seemed to just keep coming like some top 40 radio station they managed to abolish the GO.
Abolish the GO!
We say the GO doesn’t exist and therefore it doesn’t.
Yeah I know the GO wasn’t popular back then nor is it popular now but the fact is that *you just can’t abolish Network* by an order it requires a policy per the HCOPL “Policy, Source of” no matter how unpopular it is according to the policy you cited Chuck which is “Seniority of Orders”.
In fact if you look in the “new” OEC there isn’t a single policy that cancels HCOPL 1 Mar 66 ‘The Guardian’ yet this “clean team” bunch of chuckle heads went and canceled it by an order.
Anyone who knows anything about the phenomenon of *not is* shouldn’t wonder why the stinking corpse that has become the GO Zombie known as OSA is still haunting us after all these years.
But what can you say?
It seems that they knew best and continued in that “tradition” with the Golden Age of Tech which is directly against the HCOPL “Drills Allowed” but who cares because Ron “ordered” it on some obscure lecture called a “Talk on a Basic Qual”.
Ron also said that you should assess a rapid LIC before starting the Int RD.
Ron ain’t perfect nor are any one of us but we try to do what works and avoid what doesn’t and the fact is that drills written by others as *suggested* in that lecture didn’t and were pretty much shit canned until the MIC that’s Moron In Charge decided like the insane psychopath that he is to try something that hadn’t worked in the past *again* based on some “eval” that is laughable in its idiocy that came up with some kind of “why” which is actually a *ser fac* that the “Blind (which I suppose includes Ron were supposedly)leading the blind”.
Instead of hauling his sorry ass of the stage and running the prescribed brackets on his little announcement we instead “listened”.
(I now believe with the evidence to hand that actually listening to David Miscavige makes intelligent and sane individuals ****stupid***.
I mean the guy isn’t merely mocking up implants.
HE IS A FREAKING IMPLANT!!!!!!!)
Anyway sorry Chuck for going way off on some kind of tangent here but I do believe that you are absolutely correct when you say many of our troubles started when we failed to apply the HCOPL “Seniority of Orders”.
Ml
RJ
Arghh. My apologies moderators and viewers. That is not the appropriate video. Now don’t have the right one for Let the Sun Shine in (to the DoRP — Den of the Reptilian Predator).
Bruce
Sam:
That is just fine sweetheart, and don’t fret about it.
If you want to know more about Kirstie Alley, and dear, I mean “the truth about her” just go to the supermarket and go shopping. At the checkout counter you will find at least 6 magazines {I saw one just today} with Kirstie Alley on the cover and all kinds of bizarre stories about her.
I know what you think about those magazines, and you are entitled, but yet just like corporate Scientology sweetheart, they are in business too. If you were to read at least one you would learn for example that Kirstie Alley has had at least 8 abortions this year alone, was arrested for drunk driving, frequently had fist fights with her family when she was young the scars from which she says Scientology also helped her to heal and an entire tome of information about her that may not even be included in her auditing folders yet! {LOL}
Juicy tid bits about Ms. Kirstie Alley most people wouldn’t know are true! {LOL}
Know what I mean honey?
Carol.
I so agree self inspection is not one of its strongest points and quite frankly never has been.”
Yes, I have to admit it has been a rather rare commodity.
Over the years I have had the good fortune to work with, and for, many beings who could look at the effects they were creating and see the errors in their judgement, or in their actions. Some were totally able to “be the cause” and deal with that cause and it’s effects in a sensible and honorable manner.
In my opinion THAT is pretty much what “Ethics”, as a workable tool, comes down to. That and then moving on to better and more survival choices, or causes, across the dynamics.
One has to wonder, if one is cut off from the fruits of their own causation, how can they possibly “Move on up a little higher?”
WW
Tom,
I loved that comment. That is the attitude that we should all have. It is much more fun and peaceful to live that way.
Rachel,
You get it.
We’ve no need of these petty, vindictive, mean spirited things. And especially for something as innocuous as an article on CST. The reaction from Dave is indicative. Any body who has either had, or pulled a real, MISSED withhold recognizes this. He’s bat shit crazy over these. Those carrying out these wonkers things, have long since crossed the line of stupidity into Treason. The above is a betrayal of the trust reposed with what Scientology actually is.
You’re a good bean Chuck.
We’ll see this through.
+1
Hey!
Where’s our friend, Tommy Davis, lately???
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3218705664/nm0000263
Even Chiquita got in on the act on this one. She is looking at Kirstie as if to say, “Hun, get your booty down to Casa Blanca before you eat another bakery out of its inventory”.
“Here’s where I am at: I cannot live in a world where I have to be wary of people befriending me.”
Tom, this is beautifully said, thank you.
I have a similar consideration regarding “trust”: “I do not want to live in a world were there is no trust”.
Where I work, it happens occasionally, that people cannot pay (due to certain circumstances). Thinking about how this problem can get handled easily, I started to do the following in this case: I give them an envelope with my address and tell them to send me the money. First reaction is always astonishment and disbelieve. When I tell the person that I fully trust and have not the slightest consideration that I wouldn´t get my money back, the person brightens up and looks relived. And I don`t think it is only because of the solved problem about the money but also about being trusted. And every time they sent me the envelope with the money. Some wrote me so theta letters and thanked me for the trust I gave them, that it brought tears to my eyes. It´s not about the money- it is about trust. So for me it is as rewarding to have this happening as for them. And if somebody wouldn´t send me the money, it wouldn´t hurt me, but only himself.
This doesn´t mean, that I am not alert to somebody who would want to trick me. But I refuse to somehow silently accuse the others of not being trustworthy.
Karola
Hi Scott!!! (!)
I agree, it is fun.
L, Karola
“To destroy” “To ruin” “To crush” “To spin in” “To freak out” “To restimulate” “To enturbulate” “To key in” “To frighten” “To cave in” “To make unsure” “To degrade” “To humiliate into a body” “To make believe they are crazy and nothing” …
CIRCLE IN RED INK
Just like the video Ingrid posted, the insane drill sergeant uses a 16 ton weight to kill a basket of raspberries.
But what is most gross is the lies and he duplicitous immorality with which the OSA campaigns are devised without regard for fact or fairness, or the law.
The Black Propaganda tone and campaign is 1.1. With pretended “Help” to the Planet, all manner of slime is justified against good people. Whatever is being said in the OSA tactics is actually 100% the opposite. Whom do the ignorant and fearful most want to discredit as a “liar”? What do they fear most? The person telling the truth! Hence one reads “liar” and can know it means 100% inverse: truth-teller with courage. Those little generality labels stuck to people are so obvious! Bingo. Covert Hostility dramatization evil does not speak truth. Period.
Another thing feared is free theta, ability to communicate, aesthetics — so one sees someone being labeled a “degraded being” or other immoral characterization in a smear campaign and take a look! it really means the exact opposite, i.e., a big soul.
The OSA tactics themselves need total overhaul as they patently indicate failure: Failure to differentiate between ARCXen public, out list, injustice, real SPs, misunderstoods. Failure to differentiate between someone trying to do their part to correct outness and someone who wants to “destroy Scientology.” Failure at TR4 (as outlined in the PAB Jim Logan posted). Failure to communicate! With public, and with the world. Failure to protect upstats. Failure to look at all indicators. Failure to see if a person gets case gains. Failure to handle the FEAR of free theta. Failure at real security. And most important: Failure to DELIVER what they are pretending to do: Scientology as it was intended.
What is that subdued, squashed, condescending, no ARC demeanor so obvious when corporate staff and those in the Scientology corporation step forward to speak?
And we read and see people are not allowed to “think” without fear they have committed an overt to have a personal thought!! It is not in and of itself an overt to doubt. It is not an overt to want to look and to question. On the contrary, that is what cognition is.
Most people don’t have a problem with the ideologies or practice of the subject. And No, “all those evil masses out there are pissed off and anti religion” is not a sign that Scientology is expanding. If that were true, we’d see the same antagonism, protests and outrage happening other social betterment activities that improve knowledge and put the world into communication…companies and corporations that in the past five years have boomed into billion dollar enterprises…without remilking their same tired Glutamus Patronius Maximumses for third morthages.
No. The exodus of good hats from the institution that took over Scientology, the exodus of OTs, of artists, the protest of hundreds of thousands of people, the ill-will created toward L. Ron Hubbard rests squarely with nondelivery and wrong target. And immoral violation and arbitrary misapplication of policy and off-purpose management.
OSA’s overts on society and humanity, on its own fellows and members, the callousness with which they can dismiss and turn on a person, has as a fundamental that individuals are “disposable.” How the hell can great wonderful people turn into an SP overnight!? Only to an ignorant mind. The smear Defamation campaigns are fueled by fear, inability to differentiate and know (therefore apply proper handling) and justified by the think “the group is more important than the individual.” Well, hey, how does that parse with “Ideas and not battles mark the forward progress of mankind. Individuals, and not masses, form the culture of the race. ” Same person, L. Ron Hubbard, wrote that. They are not contradictions! Only to a binary, robotic mind are they contradictory ( On or Off? Off or On? ) What is auditing if not to restore the state of the SELF in a pan determined harmony with all Life and dynamics?
Marty aptly tagged this post with #Healing. Because those who have confronted the immense betrayal of which OSA is an instrument requires healing. I can think of no greater betrayal that to see what goes on behind the scenes of the stated Creed and the sacrosanct Auditors Code.
The waste I see is an utter travesty and horror. The insulated reality of justified “Rigid” “robotic” following of pieces of policy without cross reference and understanding of purpose is dangerous. It is, by definition, zealotry: i.e., violation of a purported religious value in order to live that value.
One can only spin that Tinkerbell is really Jabba the Hut or slaughter humanity because you love God for so long before a lot of people start noticing and comparing notes.
With Love, in veritas! (truth)
On my FB page.
Garbage Buster:
This video is descriptive. However, I would not represent OSA as the kind of people that STAY at one’s house going through the garbage, they almost always steal the whole garbage bag and sometimes the can with it and don’t tell you, so that you are not only suspicious of why someone did this, but when you wake up in the morning you may fight with your neighbors after suspecting one of them of doing the deed. Plus, you may have to go out and buy a new garbage can.
Is this what achieving and enjoying freedom is all about? Is that how one maintains one’s freedom is by stealing other people’s things to see how they adversely respond? People can get confused sometimes when someone comes along and says “F*** this cult*! Lest we forget Scientology is a learned subject, not a cult, the corporate Church of Scientology is an Al Capone like mob minus machine guns and banks to rob.
Sam, I agree with your last statement. Yeah, it’s always “YOUR withholds” that explains why a person is not “with org” or “with Scientology.” Somehow, that became the distallation of all the problems a being has. I got into Scientology in 1970 just about the time L-10 was introduced on the ship (overts), and then a couple of years later, sec checking was re-introduced in a big way as confessionals, called “Integrity Processing”, then LRH got into Expanded Dianetics (Evil Intentions), then of course False Purpose RD, Happiness Rd, List One RS checks, eligibility checks, yadda yadda yadda….and so on and so forth. At one point LRH had thought it was a REALLY suppressive thing to do to make others guilty of overts…….and at first of course, getting off one’s OWs was for one’s own PERSONAL case gain….and we know where that ended up by the end of the 70s and into the 80s.
Focusing SO much on one’s OWs actually many times results in mocking them up so much that one starts to wallow in them, believng one IS them (talk about overrun!!!!!!!)
Dear Thetan,
Thank you, with love welling from an infinite spring. Thank you.
In veritas,
Jim
Tom M,
We be aa-ight, brother.
Chuck —
Thanks so much for this comment and the other comments you have made on this topic! I always enjoy your input and consider you quite a historian. In fact, “When Chuck speaks, I sit up and listen.”
Yes, I too am quite pleased I have made my statement. It has allowed me to freely communicate. Now that I can freely communicate, I have learned a great deal.
Working at ASI was an interesting phenomenon. As non-SO and in the later years working in a non-SO space, I rarely was “in the know” on what was going on in the organization beyond my office. Oh, sure, I’d see some staff changes, etc., but realize how busy I was with Writers/Illustrators of the Future! It was neither my hat nor did I have time to get involved with the body of the organization.
Which is why after Gene departed and I was escorted out of the org, I asked “who” did this. To this day, I have never found out who issued the order, made the suggestion, commanded it, whatever …
And, I guess it’s a good thing because my next question would have been “why.”
So, we’re now talking a magnitude of years in what I consider a major administrative error. I doubt things have been easy within the WOTF/ILOF activities and perhaps there have been flaps as a result; I wouldn’t know but if that’s the case(s), someone should have thought it through very thoroughly before “making a mistake” (that’s what I was told).
But, I became a target (public) and that’s just a bunch of smoke to cover up the administrative error and the “who” and the “why.”
Yes, it’s great to communicate! Rest assured, however, I’m still very angry that someone had the unmitigated nerve to screw up the game.
I think DM has a huge MU on the word ‘guilty’, actually. Guilty to him means, “showing outwardly that you know you fucked up”.
If you’ve actually *done* something, but don’t feel any remorse or bad about it, then you’re not really “guilty”, in his eyes. This justifies, then, everything. “Power is assumed!”, indeed ..
Big MU there, boy!
You guys do realize that the Church can (and does) track anyone who clicks on a Youtube thread in these links, right?
“Kirsty Alley has about as much influence in this society as a Shirelles record. She got her whole Bridge. Yet, there are people that have been in the Sea Org for over 20 years that have never even went Clear. And David Miscavige tells them they are helping man.”
Kirsty Alley is *NOT* a Scientologist. When was the last time she got someone to Clear?
Indeed, its high time we started seeing the KR collection on Miscavige!
Head on a Pike! Start with Dave and work down!
Please clarify that ominous statement.
Sam
Relatively new perhaps.
In around 1993(?) I was offered a free intensive of auditing by AOLA handle the very out tech auditing they had done years earlier ( I have posted some of the gory details here, in the past). I took the opportunity and, as it happens, it was pretty much just a repair action that was delivered. It took a fair chunk of the intensive to handle. It was actually a nice, clean handling, no additives or bullshit, or tough regging to follow.
WW
Hi. Thor and Loki were actual persons whom like all other people on this planet need some help from the old fathers tech.
They both had many other famous/infamous names consequent to that lifetime when they were known as Thor And Loki.
I also have seen the movie twice. I thought the hammer looked very sexy too.
Only a being as benevolent and generous as you would think to consider the basic goodness of others under those circumstances. You’re a gem, Karola.
L, Scott
Maybe he is following a career as a “gimp” like the one in the movie pulp fiction.
You realize you are the dumbest fuck on the planet, right ?
I can explain it for you Marty .. If I wanted to start fishing details about who is visiting this blog, I’d put up a few relevant yt videos with no public access and then I’d post them in here, and wait for the clicks off to YouTube. I then can fish details about your visitors from the yt links .. For example if you are logged into YouTube and follow a video bait link from here, I’ll get details about your YouTube account and so on. From this I can correlate user info to start building a map of visitors.
Just be aware that the bony finger advices are being used to farm data about this group .. I would seriously discourage anyone from embedding yt videos in this blog, and from following those links too ..
does that apply to yt videos that are on public access?
Yes, it does. Any off site link made in a comment here is a security risk.
Exactly!
Who needs friends?
Oh, and friends don’t respond in 1.1 ways, okay honey? 😉