Rolling Radical Scientology Rats

This is a study in the anatomy of Radical Scientology’s dog-eat-dog, Gestapo-like cultural computation (read serv fac) of ‘to preserve my own neck, I’ve got to serve up a half dozen friends’ necks to the chopping block.”

If one were to do a deep-reaching survey that really found out people’s genuine considerations, it is my bet that this cultural computation is probably the most
frightening aspect of the subject of Scientology (to date largely actually mistaken for Radical Corporate Scientology).

Enslaved peoples and freed peoples for millennia have understood that horizontal bonds are more important, more valuable, and more durable than vertical ones.  They understand innately that vertical loyalties, while in the short-run sometimes remunerative, are cancerous when they are used to impose oppression and treachery onto horizontal lines.

Because the Resistance (Indies not yet identified publicly) is growing as rapidly as publicly declared Indies, we have come across a growing body of documented evidence of the suppression that is Radical Corporate Scientology.

The documentation below gives great insight into the dark, insidious nature of the current Radical Corporate Scientology tyranny, and more particularly into how that plays out in the lives of individual public Scientologists.

We are going to pick up where we left off earlier in the week with the strange case of Susie Lewis,  the South San Francisco Bay Area Scientologist who was squashed and made amenable to rolling over upon others.  For background, see:
The earlier beginning for Susie Lewis being exposed and flipped against her
Scientologist friends in the bay area was Scientology Inc leveraging personal
tragedy into betrayal. Standard Operating Miscavige Procedure (STOMP).

Barbara Nisbet completed OT VIII in 2007. She was a well-respected and loved
veteran Scientologist in the Chicago field. Her daughter is Jennifer Latch (San
Francisco Org Tech CS and wife of Snr CS SFO Stephen Latch) and Barbara’s husband was a long-time Chicago area Scientologist Class VIII field auditor Rich Nisbet.  After Barbara underwent treatment for cancer in 2009, Barbara and Rich moved to the Bay Area in order to be closer to Jennifer and her two  daughters. Ultimately, in September 2010 Barbara lost her struggle with cancer and passed away.

Rich Nisbet was thought to be echoing the sentiments of Barbara when he told a number of Scientologists that it was the continuously administered sec  checks through OT VII and OT VIII and the “EP” of this squirrel, oppressive regimen that caused the death of Barbara.  By the very nature of his sentiments Rich went further underground and furtive on the outskirts of the Radical Corporate Scientology community.

However, not possessing the courage of his own convictions, apparently not wanting to lose connection to Barbara’s daughter and grandchildren, and
having a 1.1 streak (never addressed because it is becoming a requirement in
Radical Corporate Scientology) instead of doing the honorable thing and standing up, Rich did what is now quite more acceptable conduct in the Radical Corporate Scientology community.

Within a month of Babara’s death Rich was busy stealing the wife of another Scientologist and good friend Dan Maas, another Miscavige authorized field auditor Lynette Maas. By December 2010 Dan Maas caught onto what was up with Nisbet and his wife. In January, 2011 Maas not only put a nasty physical beat down upon Nisbet, but through a well-chronicled, widely distributed email he informed public and staff far and wide about his investigation and his execution of street justice upon Nisbet:


Sadly, apparently by January 2011 street justice was all Maas could obtain
because Nisbet’s crimes had entered Flag Service Organization’s (FSO) STOMP
processing mill. That is, Flag found out not only about the out 2D, but also
caught out Nisbet on associating with potential Indies, Scientologists taking a
look at truth and chatting with one another about it – and STOMP policy is IMMUNITY FOR RATS.  That is, regardless of the crime, it is more or less forgiven if you participate in the worst kind of violation of several provisions of the ONLY ethics code in Scientology, the CODE OR HONOR.  At the Flag Service Org Rich Nisbet  was rewarded for stealing the wife of another Scientologist by way of the simple expedient of fingering his “friends” for a good long twisting in the wind dangling from the gallows. Flag, in its now inimitable style, turned Rich Nisbet from something resembling a man into something resembling a mouse (rat).

Please see the attached email cycle between Nisbet and an FSO MAA.  It reads from bottom (earliest) to top (latest). Slavka is a Flag MAA. Apparently, as of December Nisbet thought he was gonna slide out of FSO by giving the FSO MAA a little bit of ratting. But, Nisbet was disabused of that by the MAA, who informed him that under STOMP, you gotta give up everybody in order to walk. YIKES indeed Mr. Nisbet:


Black Dianetics rarely is applied without its implants. And implants were dutifully applied to Nisbet’s by then compliant, passive, receptive and injured mind.   Nisbet was coercively disabused of  his (and perhaps Barbara’s) initial, uninfluenced views that perhaps Barbara’s condition had something to do with the hundreds of thousands of dollars that were sucked out of her like blood from a vampire’s host, the years of invalidative control and Black Dianetics palmed off as the “upper levels”.  In its place was firmly planted the  following invention,  180 degrees diametrically opposed to truth. He was implanted to  forsake his dead wife’s views and adopt those of David Miscavige.  To wit, Barbara died because Rich and she discussed the possibility Flag and FSSO under the suppressive Black Dianetics of David Miscavige might have had some effect on Barbara’s health.  In other words, a brush with the truth is potentially lethal. Folks, it does not get any darker than that.  Miscavige is not just death, he is insidious megadeath.

I have never engaged in public discussions about the possibility of Upper Level Black Dianetics being a factor in the frighteningly high numbers of Flag and FSSO public OT VIIs and OT VIIIs dying of cancer. I haven’t done so in order not to contribute to the misconception that the tech of OT VII and OT VIII could in any fashion lead to illness of any kind.  I have in fact curbed such discussions from the commentary on this blog. But, having investigated this entire matter and learned of the broken, twisted lives and deaths of the characters involved (and compared it with so many similars), I am getting the idea perhaps we do have a duty or common decency obligation to do something about Miscavige and Radical Corporate Scientology driving people at the Upper Levels toward Miscavige’s cinder-hearted graveyards. It is not the technology in play. It is the Miscavige STOMP – taking people’s life fortunes, splitting their families asunder, invalidating and implanting them in the name of “upper OT levels”, forcing them through economic and familial coercion to commit serial violations of their own personal integrity and THE CODE OF HONOR.  Then, not simply leaving them to die in peace, but punishing them, further splitting their families for the afterlife by squeezing the last bit of remaining integrity out of the survivors. Relatively innocent out tech of relative short duration on the Upper Levels ain’t gonna hurt anyone to amount to anything.  Systematically abandoning the CODE OF HONOR, one’s personal integrity, and one’s sense of the rightness of things – AT ANY LEVEL – is quite capable of KILLING anyone.  That is Megadeath’s STOMP.

What has all this got to do with the simple tale of Susie Lewis?  Nisbet went on to rat out a number of “under the radar” truth seekers including, but by no means limited to, Susie Lewis.

Ironically, or perhaps not since we are doing nothing more really than
trafficking in truth, the exposure of all this is creating a bit of an Independence
exodus – particularly in the Bay Area.

Stay tuned.

Be connected.


Have your integrity.


476 responses to “Rolling Radical Scientology Rats

  1. Rory Medford

    Once a cockaroach always a cockaroach. We all know SCN is filled with cockaroaches, rats and other low life animals of the lowest order. I have NEVER met an OT who actually impressed me or made me say, “wow, i want to be like them . Quite the contrary, I’m not impressed with ANY OT I have ever met. They never seem to be in PT and the ARC they exude is minimal. I wonder why? Maybe little Davey knows why? Of course he does, ikts all a game of smoke and mirrors and Davey is the King at playing the shell game and manipulating. He is a CON man of great magnitude and a man of great deception!!!!

  2. Pathetic…

    Truly, truly pathetic.

  3. Looks like we found the real Con-man (Rich) and Adulteress (Lynette)….. Guess the true King-pin (Dan) “pounded the f*** out of” Con-man’s ass!

    Praise the C of S for its Upstats.

  4. Scott Campbell

    This is great Marty.

    I’m really glad you finally did address the fact of a higher cancer death rate amongst VII’s and VIII’s.

    I have noticed this phenomenon escalating for over 15 years now. To me, there is only one reason why this is happening. The VII’s and VIII’s are trying to succumb in the face of suppression.

    I recall something from LRH on cancer where he says something to the effect of, (paraphrase) “Cancer is an effort by the ORGANISM to survive when the BEING is trying to succumb”.

    If anyone knows where to find this ref please point me to it.


  5. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks so much for continuing to have the guts to be the conduit to let us know what is happening with the savagery of the cult of dm.
    I lived for many years under the suppression of Flag and dm and his minions running their black Scientology operations on me and finally got out. I can tell you that I experienced severe BPC that would never seem to handle because the right target was never located. I was continually given wrong why after wrong why. I feel great now!!

    It wasn’t until I learned of the Truth Rundwon and heard from all of you brave souls what had been happening.
    For that I will be eternally grateful.
    As someone said, the road to truth has to be travelled all the way. When you try to half ass it, as this pitiful shit did, the consequences can be gruesome. This guy is busy making his own hell now and I think he really can’t blame anyone for it except himself since he had found the truth and is now denying it.

  6. Marty, with this group the truth does not hold any water. They cannot handle the truth! This has been ongoing for years .

  7. Marty — have been a bit absent but have been following recent blog article (kudos to Steve Hall). Am heading back to school so my time is a bit more crunched but I’ll read and touch in from time to time.

    As for Barbara Latch — how do Connie and Lloyd Latch tie in to this? — unless it’s just a coincidence that Barbara was from the SF area.

    L. Latch was actually quite a renegade with ethics etc and not all in lock step way back when — but a scoundrel with regards to his large exceedingly successful and costly practice.

    The bay area must be in a screaming free fall.

    Will be interesting to see what shakes out from Mountain View as well


  8. “Hey Jimmy, I just wanted to let you know that I went and beat the living shit out of Rich tonight.” Gotta bypass normal habits and routines, harm attack and suppress sometimes, that’s standard tech, right there in the ethics book!
    Frankly, I think that is more uptone than running to Flag and throwing a bone to the “master at armada” down there.

    “Under investigation…..” this phrase says it all.

    The C.I.A of the Church. Cult Investigation Association.

  9. You know most people here are Scientologists right?
    Maybe you are on the wrong website.

  10. William Johnson

    Marty, Marty, Marty. Those first three ‘paragraphs’ were incoherent gibberish that only you could understand. If you honestly wish to pursue a career as a writer, you should consider furthering your education in regards to grammar and sentence structure past the 6th grade level! Just out of curiosity, how many of your ‘followers’ actually finished college, or high school for that matter? You may be able to ‘thrill’ them with each post, but out here in the ‘Wog’ world, it takes more than being a card-carrying cult member to sell books!

  11. Tony DePhillips

    This is an example of a true Indie taking a beating and then talking to dm:

  12. Yoh know Marty, this kinda reminds me of Gold when DM would visit a renos site and start bitching about this or that. In a heartbeat the execs would start pointing fingers at one another until someone not only got thrown under the bus, but thrown in the lake; someone was going to pay. I always thought this was odd for execs to act this way. But now I see it is the M/O Wherever DM is.

    ML Tom

  13. Howard Roark

    Excellent post Marty.

    I know the players involved. This is not the first wife Rich has betrayed. He betrayed his previous wife in a similar fashion while FSO and the Chicago Org gave him a pass.

    Class VIII. OT VII. And it took an irate husband to deliver him some justice. VWD Dan.

  14. Howard Roark

    BTW Rich’s patron is the Earthlink guy.

  15. Marty

    We seem to keep coming back to the tactic of “divide and conquer”. Jim Jones had this one down to a real masterpiece. I suspect it is common among cults, and also any regime that is dead set on total control.

    David Miscavige has been using this tactic of “individuate everyone from anyone else and then systematically from his integrity and finally from his core beliefs.” First you cut the existing comm lines, then you replace them with “report lines” used to gather “intel” on group members. These same lines are used to spread lies to further individuate the group members from each other. Once the members of a group are even partially individuated from each other, the wedge of control, via secrecy and lies, smashes the true nature of a “group” to pieces. You no longer have a group, you have a cabal of spies. They are no longer held together by a survival purpose because that has been insidiously replaced by fear of retaliation from their leaders and their fellows. As the tone level of the group descends, individuals tend to become more devious and untruthful in what they put on these lines. Their “creativity” in this matter becomes totally directed toward self preservation and sacrifice of the components of their dynamics. They will eventually even throw themselves “under the bus” at some point.

    It is not wasted on me that that exact same tactic is the tactic that is being most aggressively pushed by David Miscavige and his pawns against any dissenters, the Independent Field in general, and you and Mike and Amy and several others, in particular.

    I have come to see that this particular tactic is the CORE TACTIC used by David Miscavige to initially seize and then systematically dominate and then destroy the entire group that was Scientology under LRH.

    The only defense against such a tactic, in my opinion, is to communicate. Prosperity is a function of communication.
    Survival is a function of communication.
    The very condition of our dynamics is a function of our communication.

    We must continue to communicate against all provocations to withdraw our communications or to isolate ourselves from our fellows.

    It is communication of the truths on this blog and others that is breaking apart David Miscaviges stranglehold on the Church of Scientology. It is communication that will take David Miscavige down.


  16. The Scientology Corporation justifies advertising its services with statements (misrepresentation) like the following on their websites: “Scientology does not require that one change his or her beliefs or convictions to use it successfully. ”

    This, originally, was once true. In fact, Scientology — the actual authentic ideology and practice, which is distinctly different from the operation now calling itself a church — hinges on one thing: personal integrity! to which the ability to observe and know is integral.

    What is auditing if not that process by which personal integrity is restored? Looking and knowing. How can that process take place when people are not allowed to look and think? Why is there a rampant distrust in intelligent people’s (let alone highly trained and “OT”) innate ability to evaluate data?

    The corruption of the Scientology Corporation is internal. Corrupt…from the Latin corrumpere (broken in little pieces), the exact opposite of Integrity (meaning Whole/Intact). Who is kicking the cat? Who is losing the mail? Who is driving off good staff and loyal public? Obviously attacking public and staff is not solving anything. And not for a minute is anyone but a handful of robots going to believe the sky is really brown. Time to wake up.

  17. The fact that you have an email SHOWING the BCC recipients indicates to me that we may have a new Indie in the making…;)

    Re: “I am getting the idea perhaps we do have a duty or common decency obligation to do something about Miscavige and Radical Corporate Scientology driving people at the Upper Levels toward Miscavige’s cinder-hearted graveyards.”

    YES! It is time we granted each other the beingness to fully get in our Grade 0 on this sordid subject. Frredom IS NOT Slavery. Total Freedom therefore is NOT Total Slavery. Too many people have died unneccessarily under the Miscavige Regime, both in lower org settings and upper org settings, from the invalidation of case gains, squirrel Out Tech, and grossly weird evaluations…not to mention rampant Auditor’s Code breaks.

    Here is an example of Miscavige Tech:

  18. Rory Metford,
    I don’t think I’ve met you.

  19. TheWidowDenk

    Uh oh, here comes that ball right into my court. LRH’s doctor is seeing 150 patients a week at the Center and he goes uplines every other Friday to see patients there; he’s also on OT VII and finds out he has cancer; the battle is unsuccessful and he departs this life at 56 years of age. His wife then becomes the target. Questions?

  20. martyrathbun09

    None, it is crystal clear to me.

  21. WindWalker


    I cannot go there with you on this one.
    I have met OTs that I truly admire. I would not say I want to BE them, but I sure have enjoyed their beingness and their theta. It is not true of all OTs, as nothing ever is. Part of the point of being OT is that you have an “individual”. They may not be what you expect them to be but that does not mean they are not OT.

    Now, the part I do agree with is that it is surprising some of the nonsense some OTs have gone into agreement with. And if you really have a powerful individual as an OT you will see that power manifest itself in the effects they create.
    Fortunately beings are “self limiting”. If they are doing harm to their dynamics they are making themselves smaller. The more OT they are, the faster and more thoroughly they will see their overts and take themselves out of the game by giving up their OTness.
    This I have seen.


  22. For those on any OT Level in DM’s Reverse Scientology, leave. That is a stark statement. It is the best advice one could give.

    Indifferent auditing, above one’s reality ‘unreal’ auditing, that’s one thing. What DM’s Reverse Scientology does…that’s another.

    DM’s monopoly of the Advance Material is over. You CAN get good auditing, you can do Solo from any number of beings who deliver this tech, outside DM’s pernicious influence.

    Write to me.

    P.S. DM, LRH beat you. The work was free. It is so.

  23. martyrathbun09

    You got it Tom.

  24. Howard Roark

    I first went into the org in the ’90’s. Every staff member who was OT V or greater is now DEAD. They all died in their ’50’s of cancer, except for one who died in his ’50’s of a heart attack. I will not name them out of respect for the departed.

  25. Scott Campbell

    I flunked sandbox three times before they kicked me out.

  26. Howard Roark

    “Scientology does not require that one change his or her beliefs or convictions to use it successfully. ”

    Scientology is not faith-based. It works when standardly applied whether one “believes” or not.

    The Church of Scientology is different.

  27. Another independent auditor died last week. Frank Pate of Tampa. OSA through his wife by reports on FBook got his computer.

    Thought I tell you guys.

  28. William,

    Your posts make you out to be not only blind, but foolish.

  29. Mike Hobson

    @Howard – Do you mean Sky Dayton ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  30. As I think about it, the irony and travesties of this operation are ever more blatantly and starkly egregious.

    I first found Scientology when I was just out of my teens; I was in theatre at college, writing for an Arts paper, had a large readership and letters pouring in from Capitol Hill and was winning prizes for poetry. I embraced Scientology as an applied procedure. The generic teen angst and brief difficult time of human earth travails (parents divorce) was behind me, my life was full and beautiful, I had traveled and lived around the world with my family, worked in the arts and was in love with life and my quest for truth.

    I didn’t come in to an org on a ruin, I came in because of my wonder and love of life and knowledge, and it was the best tool I had found in my quest for an examined life and truth. After my HQS course, when I sampled the efficacy of auditing and saw a person have a cognition (oh, beautiful things that they are!), I bought my Bridge on both sides, up through Cl IV and Grade IV. I was an uber case gain pc. (Floating TA on Life repair for 3 weeks was the beginning of my love of that side of the Bridge). I joined staff (much to the surprise of bands and artists with whom I worked, but they are still my friends) and was on the Tech Training Corps (even though I had bought and paid for my training), and over almost 2 years delivered up to 50 WD and VWD hrs per week as an HGC auditor (day & Fnd). One of my pcs put bought 10K of services at the org because I was able to handle a tough case. I also bought all the sec checking (tens of thousands of dollars) I was told I need to make sure I wasn’t a plant (palm tree:-) I called all my friends and sometimes brought up to 40 people in the org in a week. I’ll get to the point — is there any other place that sells its services, where one goes and purchases, pays for, a course, then is not “allowed” to leave? Because it is beyond ridiculous that the Scientology Corporation treats people as though they own someone who has paid them for services! I never once handed over or signed up for giving anyone the right to tell me what to know, see, do and believe, with whom I can or cannot communicate let alone to disrespect my rights.

    Anyone whose advice I do respect and seek would never do that to me! Hubbard never did that to me. And I genuinely respected him, and I respected doing the conditions when I did decided to leave staff (and replaced myself with two fully interned Cl IVs), but it was a positive, joyous thing.

    Fast forward, after disagreements in 1986 that a Flag mission fixed and ” regained my trust” (I was sincerely impressed) and after paying yet more tens of thousands of dollars for services to continue upper level, my parting of ways came over a principle of honor over someone I brought into an org who was embezzled by two OT 8s, and we were asked not to go to the law. When the upshot of my reports and attempts to handle internally was being told I should not have “trusted” two people because they were OT8, and all internal standard policy application attempts to handle failed (were ignored), I assigned the organization a condition of liability.

    No one called or contacted me in 17 years. What happened? In 1992, Dave Petit actually sat on my doorstep three days in a row when my husband was a millionaire. Because he “cared so much” about this “new person”. I suppose I was dead filed and it would have been fine with “my” “Org” that I die or disappear.

    It’s been almost 20 years. Or maybe it was a good thing I never bragged about my wealth or assets. And they thought I didn’t have any money left.

    I see the Condition I assigned should have been Treason.

    But in all this, I have not lost my admiration for the ideology and practice of Scientology. IT is not “truth”, it is a tool for truth. Truth is yours. Are are you, YOU (your soul), nobody’s but your very own.

    When a tool for truth is used for death and personal agenda, and is leveraged by the stupid, it is no longer the tool for truth.

    In the current Corporation of Scientology, an SP is NOT the Hubbard definition. It has nothing to do with one’s SOCIAL characteristics. They are not in the business of protecting SOCIAL PERSONALITIES, as they were entrusted to do. Because the day that a dolphin, life loving, social, helpful, sparkling, uptone, case gain theta person is declared an SP and/or attacked (without a declare no less)…baby, something is seriously very very WRONG! Multiply that by all the declares of such… Such persons have no right to even utter a person’s name, let alone lay claim to their “eternity.”

  31. How about the datum that cancer occurs because of …something…on the second dynamic? How about all the stuff that is being done to ruin people’s second dynamics? Most of it qualifies as heavy disruption, suppression, etc.

  32. Eileen Clark

    Finger painting. Just never could get the hang of how to get the color on the paper with my fingers.

    * *

  33. Five years of college here, National Merit Scholarship, Teaching degree, B.S. So now tell me your credentials, William Johnson. Graduate of Institute of Toilet ScrubbingTechnology?

  34. And Frank Davis in Clearwater:
    Apparent cause of death – suicide. But somehow OSA claimed his computer. Very shady.

  35. Eileen Clark


    Sooth. Eloquent. +1000

  36. When I went to check out the teacher one of my kids would have in fourth grade, something went wrong in her class and every kid started to point the blame at somebody else, whoever was handy. “Not me, it was him!” “No it wasn’t, it was her!”

    At that moment I knew that the teacher was suppressive. No kid fears the blame that much otherwise. Obviously I found another school for my kid.

    Well, it applies to DM too. When everybody starts throwing someone else under the bus, they have a reason, and it’s because the suppression is too great to bear.

  37. Too big a generality, Rory!
    ““All generalizations are false, including this one.” – Mark Twain

  38. Howard Roark


  39. Yeah I knew Rich back in the glory days of the ’80’s when I was auditing at the AO.

    He seemed pretty genuine back then but ya never know.

    Too bad about his wife.

    I lost a couple of friends myself who were on NOTs.

    Mary Sue died while on “the level” as they call it.

    Poor Megan who was her attending physician her daughter died under mysterious circumstances.

    Supposedly a suicide.

    Some of us speculated that she actually might have been suicided.

    No proof just speculation.

    Just speculation that it was some kind of “warning” to Megan to keep her mouth shut about what was actually going on between the “Church” and Mary Sue and why they’d let one of their founding members die like that.

    All I can say Marty this NOTs thing is a big ugly rock with something sick and evil lying under it.

    The fact is that NOTs can turn things on like any advanced level that should be handled by either completing the action or repairing the action and completing it.

    It’s like restimulating an engram only worse.

    One of the reasons why you can almost kill a PC by skipping items on R6.

    This is the reason why the Confidential levels are CONFIDENTIAL.

    It has nothing to do with monetary concerns as many of the critics assert.

    So I disagree Marty.

    The fact is that these deaths can be attributed to failure to actually complete NOTs or in some cases overrunning it.

    Also another factor that may apply here also is that Ron admonishes against pulling withholds or prepchecking while a PC is in the middle of an engram.

    Just look at any version of L3 and the warning is right there because Ron says it’ll “mush up engrams”.

    Why is NOTs called NOTs?

    Because its New Era *DIANETICS* for OTs.

    Yet what do they do with cases on their six month checks?

    They run nothing but sec checks!

    Anyway I think there is a lot more to this whole scene than lil’ Dave being colicky.

    Me thinks the tech has been intentionally perverted to kill people.

  40. You are one savvy dude WW. Perfect duplication.

  41. I decided very early during my former tenure in the Church of Scientology that my personal ethics and integrity were senior to anything else.

    That is why I didn’t last so long in the church. I could not find anyone to agree with me. When I would do something or suggest something correct the response was always inevitable “What? You do things ethically? Is there something wrong with you?”

    Well I am glad I finally got the chance to answer! “No there is not something wrong with me . And even if there was what business might it be of the Church of Scientology to know about it?

    And that would include you Miss Cabbage, the man who knows everything but in actual fact doesn’t know too much at all.

  42. Howard Roark

    This is a beautiful post. Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

    And I 100% agree with your final paragraph. An SP declare is a tool used against perceived enemies by the C of $. It is not about labeling someone with the antisocial characteristics. It took me 15 years to be able to make that differentiation, at great personal expense.

  43. Willie — I presume from this masterful critique that your hero is Dan Sherman. Dave (and Dan) will tell you he has magnficent writing ability — well beyond 6th grade. In fact, he is a magician — he can string together words that sound sort of impressive, in his own unique sentence structure (at least 75% of the sentences must begin with “again”, “then again”, “notwithstanding”, “if you thought that was impressive”) that when broken down says absolutely nothing at all. All form, no substance.

  44. Geeze, one hell of a ser fac for what? That was very well written! There are plenty of best sellers out there by people who did not finish high school however. It’s the story that sells, not the style. And Marty has one hell of a story!

  45. Tony DePhillips

    Hey Johnson,
    This guy has more credibility than you do.
    If you are going to take shots why don’t you be man enough to use your real name instead of hiding like a little girl.

  46. Veritas:

    This is wonderful of you to share this story with us. You earned my eternal respect at about the third sentence. Carry on girl!



  47. What’s your story William?

    “I woke up and pulled the pants on. Waddled to the computer looking for someone to assault. Damn I have it going on. Sat hunched over the threads like a snapping turtle lurking in the mud on the Bayou, I waited for some life to happen so I could snap. Then I found my target! Ah, the swamp is blessed in it’s own way! What a day it has been! My fingers touched some keys and some of the hate left me!”

  48. Lol!

  49. Good for you on the school sit!

  50. WindWalker

    So…. In the spirit of more communication, I offer this:


    My name is Eric Strudwick

    I am a Scientologist from Vancouver, Canada.
    I have been a Scientologist since 1971.
    I plan to continue to be a Scientologist.

    I would like to share with you some of the things that I hold dear to my heart.

    I have found much wisdom in the writings of L Ron Hubbard. I find his philosophy very much to my liking. Of the ones I have studied, I have found his technologies generally quite workable. I have experienced many gains in the application of Dianetics and Scientology technologies to myself, to others, and to my life. I have used Dianetics and Scientology technologies to help others and found that, when understood and applied correctly, they produce desirable results.

    Here is some of my own Philosophy and understanding, much of it acquired through my connection with Scientology and Dianetics and the wisdom of L. Ron Hubbard.

    I believe that we are all spiritual beings.

    I believe that as spiritual beings we are all basically good.

    I believe that when that goodness is not evident in one’s thoughts or actions it is due to aberrations that have distorted or masked that goodness, received at moments of some degree of overwhelm, or to acting upon inaccurate or incorrectly evaluated data.

    I believe that one has the right to evaluate the truth or workability of any data received, on the basis of whether or not he finds it to be true for himself, from his own viewpoint, and the right to use it or discard it as he sees fit.

    I believe that a being has the right to the creation of his own dynamics, and to the pursuit of TOTAL FREEDOM, whatever he conceives that to be.
    I have found it to be true for me that the “goals of the Dynamics” are, in fact, my own goals as a being. I do not acknowledge any other person’s or agency’s right to interfere in my pursuit of those goals.

    Some of my chosen “purposes” toward achieving the goals of the dynamics are:
    helping others achieve increased understandings and spiritual awareness;
    advancing my own spiritual awareness and understandings;
    assisting others in the resolution of difficulties they may be having in the pursuit of their own lives and the creation of their dynamics.

    I will support those who are aligned, or at least not counter, to those goals and purposes.

    In contrast;

    I do not condone attacking or deliberately harming another for personal gain.
    I do not condone any means or activity intended or used to suppress beings.
    I will not support or assist any person or group condoning or participating in these activities.

    So, to set the record straight:

    I am not attacking , the Philosophy, or the Technologies of Scientology.

    As a Scientologist, I am being vocal against the use of “out tech”.
    As a Scientologist, I am vocal against “squirreling” the Tech of Scientology.
    As a Scientologist, I am vocal against those who have taken suppressive actions against Standard Tech, the practice of Standard Scientology and Dianetics, and those Scientologists practicing Standard Tech.

    After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that DAVID MISCAVIGE the so called “Chairman of the Board” of the Church of Scientology, IS A SUPPRESSIVE PERSON, and that the Church of Scientology, under his leadership has taken on the color of a SUPPRESSIVE GROUP.

    His actions have led to The Church of Scientology being held in disrepute.
    He has altered Scientology technology, or its application, so as to render portions of it unworkable in making beings more able and advancing them towards TOTAL FREEDOM.
    He has suppressively altered the structure of the Management bodies of Scientology in order to serve his own purposes, and for his own profit.
    He is suppressing the freedom of beings, both personally and organizationally.

    These Suppressive Acts, and others, and his crimes, should be the subject of a “Committee of Evidence” duly convened and carried out according to the policies and codes of Scientology.
    However, due to David Miscavige’s own suppression of the Ethics and Justice bodies of the Church of Scientology, (or those following his orders) this avenue is effectively blocked, and anyone attempting to “see justice or ethics policies followed”, (which do not align with the dictates of David Miscavige) is immediately attacked.
    It has therefore become necessary to pursue the Ethics and Justice actions necessary to resolve this situation, from a position exterior to the current Church of Scientology and it’s Organizations.
    By taking this course of action I have exposed myself, and those to whom I am connected, to the full wrath of David Miscavige and those who do his bidding, but I cannot sit in silence on this issue.
    I believe that connection to someone who is actively suppressing you is detrimental to your life, your spiritual advancement, and your health.

    I am willing to communicate to anyone who earnestly seeks the truth. I highly recommend that you look for yourself and keep your own council.

    The price of freedom is constant vigilance and a willingness to fight back.

    Eric Strudwick , AKA WindWalker

  51. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Eric. Beautifully put. Welcome!

  52. Plus one brazilllion!

  53. one of those who see


    But to humor you – National Honor Society in High School and BA degree-College. However, there are many people writing here that are trained Auditors and Supervisors who’s vocabulary and ability to write exceed mine by a long shot. They may or may not have attended college. So your point is?

  54. one of those who see

    P.S. DM, LRH beat you. The work was free. It is so.


  55. Robert Earle

    Dear William,
    Which word , term or abbreviation do you not know the meaning of prior to your difficulty understanding the first three paragraphs? Bob Earle

  56. Tony Dephillips

    Hey Wind Walker!
    That was great!!
    You instantly are now part of our Pacific NW Indy group!!
    Email me if you want at a.dephillips@

  57. Likewise. And many here to thank! And here we are, ultimately with great personal gain.

    To that end I can say I don’t curse any experience whatsoever and can even thank those on my road to truth who had other goals or personal obstacles in mind. I know who I am. And I can’t imagine a transgression against life much bigger than trying to trap/trick/degrade/manipulate people into believing they are less than they are (for WHATEVER reason)

  58. 🙂 TY

    And in the third to the last paragraph I typo’d but meant to say:
    As are you, YOU (your soul), nobody’s but your very own.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Ok, and we get Mexico then.

  60. Tony Dephillips

    I think technically Vancouver is part of Pac Nw. But ok, you can have as far south as Acapulco. 🙂

  61. martyrathbun09

    Ok, you can go as far east as Winnepeg, and we’ll get over to the Yucatan on the east.

  62. はいどら

    I am an independent in the Bay Area looking for services, who should I get in touch with?

  63. Tony Dephillips

    Veritas ,
    That was sweet. Hit the spot.
    I think that was as close to you going “sudden” as I have ever heard.
    For a second I thought you were going to divulge your secret identity.

  64. Tony Dephillips


  65. Tony Dephillips

    It’s your world I’m just living in it…

  66. WindWalker

    Guys, guys, You don’t need to divide anything up. We’re all part of the same beautiful international group here. I just wanted to let ya’ll know that there was a light on up here.


  67. David Miscavige admits to nothing and denies everything. THAT is why he does not want people watching television shows and reading this blog. He ordered and trained his top executives to lie on national television on the Anderson Cooper show. Why should anyone, any human being have to “confess” to conversations they had in their own home or things they read on their own computer? Because David Miscavige wants to know WHO knows about him. Why should anyone have to apologize to apologize to the Church who supports his lies and abuse? This is really pathetic. What did that girl Susan do but talk to her friends and gain information? More information than the Sea Org Members have! Those people are not allowed to read or watch television or talk to public even in confidence. The people out here know more about DM and the Church than the staff do! How can you confess when you have more knowledge than they do? They are not privileged as we are with information! They are handicapped to have any clear sense of justice as they are kept in half truths and / or living a lie!

  68. “William D. Johnson” Sit Down.
    Your use of “In regards to” is both Substandard and Vulgar, although it appears unfortunately often in the spoken language of some people. It never appears in Edited English. You get an F.

  69. The ARC you exude escaped my view. I must be out of PT.

  70. Robert Earle

    Dear Eric,
    Thank you for your declaration. I for one feel very much as you do. I have enjoyed your posts on this site and they have consistently reflected what you have just declared. You are clearly a Scientologist. Bob Earle
    PS Regarding the DM CommEv , perhaps the US Attorney General could be convening authority and dept of justice hatted on comm ev . Clearly DM has these hats in Cof S inoperative and someone should wear them.

  71. Welcome Eric!

  72. William, I take it that means this post has impinged.

  73. Scott Campbell

    Hey Eric!

    Welcome and well done. I’ve always enjoyed your well considered and composed comments. Thanks for standing up and being counted amongst the Independents!

    L, Scott

  74. Scott Campbell


    If Tony gets PAC NW, then I’ll back you up on a claim to SW U.S.

  75. Tom:

    This IS indeed shocking news. I was personally acquainted with Frank and his former wife Susan Christie Davis.

    I don’t think she cared about him anymore after his SP declare. Anything to make the man at the top happy I guess in the sordid life of corporate Scientologist. I am truly saddened by this news. He was one of the few people that ever really made me laugh. Bye Frank.

  76. Wonderful Eric. Welcome 🙂

  77. Kathy Braceland

    Wow Eric. Nicely said. I’m glad you’re here.

    Another Canadian…yay! How about those Canucks eh? I want them to bring the Stanley Cup home where it belongs!

  78. Scott Campbell

    I’ll see your brazillion and raise you a columbillion and a venezuallion!

  79. Scott Campbell

    Well no shit.

  80. Joe Howard

    Just in case DM or OSA didn’t understand the sound your heard at the end of Veritas’ post, I’ll say it in a language you can understand: that was you being ripped a new asshole.

  81. Outstanding Eric!

  82. Rory is related to William Johnson.

  83. Eric,



  84. WW-beautiful declaration of independence!

  85. TY. Um actually Sudden is my middle name;)
    But Identity? Secret? LOLOL!!

  86. I thought ARC was something that went up and down the tone scale.
    For example, an angry man will communicate anger- his reality is anger and his affinity is anger.
    You might prefer higher toned ARC. (I sort of do too)

  87. WW, well said.
    a) If Scientology is applied people can change and they do. This is evidenced for instance by what you see occurring in the independent field.
    b) I remember having read one issue, describing OT-Levels being a “series of drills”. Only when I found the original OT-Levels in the internet I found such. These levels above 3 differ entirely in subject and approach from the current “New” upper levels. To avoid being unfair, this calls for differentiation. Very probably most of those OTs that have “not impressed” you may not have done these OT-Levels at all. It would be unfair to expect results from actions which haven’t been done.
    c) If one is impressed by someone, is an uncertain measure stick. It might be influenced by factors not coming from those persons so measured.

  88. davemessenger

    I like this part:
    “Enslaved peoples and freed peoples for millennia have understood that horizontal bonds are more important, more valuable, and more durable than vertical ones.  They understand innately that vertical loyalties, while in the short-run sometimes remunerative, are cancerous when they are used to impose oppression and treachery onto horizontal lines.”

    How about some documentation of exactly how many OTs have contracted cancer, and whether those figures/percentages exceed non-scientologists?

  89. JM & SC
    I guatamalillion say, thanks for listening 🙂 ☼

  90. Veritas-You communicate in a way that coveys so much feeling and compassion. Thank you for you having stuck to your personal integrity.

  91. WW
    And that is because “Communication is the universal solvent!” LRH


  92. Luis Garcia


    Touching and profound… beautifully expressed.

    Welcome to the light.


  93. Hi Eric, Thank you for sharing your purposes and beliefs. You’ve always shone loud and clear!

  94. I have to admit that I like Dan Maas’ style.
    And by way of commenting on the ‘death and dying’ topic…I’ll wager Dan’s not likely to go effect of the sick environment and twisted mentality pushed off on the poor slobs suffering under it.
    There are many of us who missed our chance at delivering a physical or moral beat-down/ass-kicking when it would have been called for.
    It’s actually quite therapeutic to call it straight and not stand for people dishing abuse on you.
    There IS such a thing as PTS. And it CAN be deadly.
    Dan seemed to demonstrate a very un-PTS characteristic to me.

  95. Hi Marty;
    This post I find disheartening. I knew Rich very well back on the SHSBC, both when it was on Temple street and then on Berendo. He and I and Cassidy used to ride from the Arapaho House to course every morning on his motorcycle. Cassidy was his dog, and that dog could really ride on the bike! I really liked the guy.
    I have no doubt whatsoever that he’ll see how he was mislead, and we’ll see him here. He is much bigger than this.

  96. Professor Veritas,
    Excellent classroom management. William Johnson needs to watch these inappropriate outbursts. Did you notice that he split subject and verb with the adverb “honestly” in his second sentence? Also, Mr. Johnson’s interjecting the phrase “in regards to grammar and sentence structure” between the object of the sentence’s verb and the prepositional phrase “past the 6th grade” is awkward construction and reflects immaturity in his writing. The most egregious error, though, is use of four sets of apostrophes around rather ordinary words. Even if Mr. Johnson meant to use quotation marks to note specialized jargon – as the word “wog” might be considered to be, his overuse of this device confirms the F grade you have given. Well done.
    Dr. Leonore

  97. VWD, welcome to freedom Eric!

  98. Hi Eric,
    Thanks for the open declaration. I’ve been withholding telling some folks that you are out, but now I can communicate to a few more people about you. I have a few cliff hangers at Flag who will be happy to hear this news.
    I love the way you expressed your intentions. Great quality of comm.

    Hope you don’t mind my saying this, but as well as being an excellent writer, Eric is also a tremendous sculptor. I just recall seeing his work at the Mission in Vancouver and being in awe of the quality of comm.


  99. Jethro Is In The Zone


    You may be onto something here. Besides cancer, a lot of “OTs” have gone type 3 and/or suicidal. These are the Rex Fowler (2009) and Chuck Prenner (1987) cases. When I was on staff in 1987, I met an “OT 7” who was so restimulated he felt he could have a psychotic break at any second. In 1985 I met an “OT 4” who couldn’t stop crying uncontrollably even though he was told repeatedly to have no case on post. Something ain’t right here.

    This Rich Nisbit even has a website offering services on relationship counseling:

    “I’ll give you simple, powerful steps to resolve problems you may be having with; raising kids and teens, relationship difficulties, lack of personal direction or power, money issues, learning difficulties and more. I have been counseling, coaching and consulting individuals, kids, couples and businesses for over 26 years. I know what works and what doesn’t work.”

    Nisbit seems like the last person I would go to for ethical advice. What a charlatan.

    He also wrote a book called “This Lifetime” which preaches scientology stuff. Doesn’t this make him a squirrel? Didn’t Peter Gillham and Ruth Minshel get in trouble for books like this?

    Perhaps Nisbit had some “street justice” coming, but Dan Maas admitted to committing aggravated assault. This is not OK and hope you still don’t condone this sort of physical violence even if Nisbit “deserved it”.

  100. Frank was our sup when we operated in Tampa. He was an awesome tech terminal. Gonna miss him.

    How in the hell does OSA go about getting his computer? I mean, I can see why they would want it, but how do they pull that off?

  101. Rory Medford

    Oops sorry, let me clarify, I’m a Scn as well. I was referring to the products of the Church of David. Seriously the OT’S I have met did not really impress me
    I’m sure there are plenty of OT’s that are very capable, able and exude tons of ARC but i have not encounter any. Maybe I’m giving to much credit to being OT or all the hype about going OT does not match my observations of the OT’S I met. Yes I was being too general. Sorry!

  102. I think people get cancer because the body is dying and then compulsively tries to procreate. Davey compulsively brings people down into an obsessive stop which means death to the body. So, no matter if he does it by 2D disruption, financial leeching, disconnection, prolonged out integrity, physical restraints or long term unfinished auditing cycles, they’re all valid means of killing a being.

    The high coincidence among VII’s and VIII’s is in direct ratio to intensity of contact and amount of stress inflicted. VII’s and VIII’s are trapped deeper than others by the 6 months policy (perversion of), their assigned role model, their incredible desire to be good and do good, their willingness to help and the blackmail levelled at them. Davey has a much stronger leverage on them than on mere lower public who refuse to take 3 mortgages or consider their integrity more important than the Bridge.

    Ironically, considering the Bridge more important than your integrity and incurring too many debts are the very reasons why they get into a situation where they can be blackmailed into death.

  103. Michael Fairman

    Eric Who Walks With The Wind
    This is a beautiful post, honest and true. You reality affirms mine. Thank you and welcome.

  104. scilonschools

    DM and his ‘Golden Age of Terror’ certainly seem to be making all the right ‘connections’ at the moment
    (Birds of a feather flock together!)

    Top Aide to Nation of Islam Leader Arrested in Guyana in Terror Probe

    Jaffa gang suspected of plotting to kill sheikh, blame rightists for crime
    Attorney Gur Finkelstein, who represents the Scientology Center in Israel, was detained several weeks for allegedly hiring this gang

  105. There is a great definition in the admin dictionary that caused me to have a major BlowDown when I first read it. It is something I posted earlier, but I feel bears another look. The definition of competence shows that sanity and competence are 2 different things. We have all known brilliant people who are completely insane. The current Church doesn’t catch them, because it is 1.1 and is doing their best to create insane people or “better yet” dead people. I have found that there are major red flags with these guys all along the way and that they are quite dedicated to their insane ways. The Church gives them the red carpet.
    I have also known brilliant people in Scientology who are also quite sane and despite being subjected to insane tech and very often succumbing for awhile, still prevail with their personal integrity and fight their way back. They are dedicated to the truth. The Church is doing all it can to destroy them.

  106. So, while I feel for Dan, “pounding the fuck” out of someone (especially when it was planned for two days) is ILLEGAL. It is assault and battery. I get that it is no fun being the cuckold.

    I don’t know any of the players here, but it is a sordid mess. One thing is clear, and that is Rich is (was, now, I would think) being a mole for the FSO.

  107. Awesome, Eric! Good to meet you! Excellent declaration!

  108. I wonder if Dennis Dubin, and Evelyn Hawkes had Blk Dianetics used on them. Both were upstats and doing something effectively to expand Scientology (must have drove DM nuts). Or, is it possible that he had access to how to mock one up with cancer and “inject” that entity? I think that that could be. A convienent way to be rid of those that “threaten one” (see thru one and have more power… know and SP is threatened by those more powerful and knowledgeable and can see their crimes.)

  109. I would tend to disagree with your assessment Erwin because in one case a friend of mine who was on his “New” OT V died of cancer.

    Thus never had any connection to Flag and their sec check mill.

    There are technical reasons why one would contract cancer while on NOTs covered in the NOTs Series particularly NOTs Series 27.

    NOTs is actually quite a powerful rundown.

    Remember the EP if run correctly is “cause over life”.

    Personally I think a lot of Scientologists including Independents tend to underestimate the power of these levels or of auditing in general.

    After seeing for myself the “concentrated hell” of an out list.

    Actually quite a few being a review auditor.

    I wouldn’t underestimate the actual power of auditing or how it can be abused.

    Miscavige is a fool that doesn’t know what he is dealing with because he himself has never experienced actual gains being an NCG.

  110. Dear WJ,

    I happen to be an Italian who speaks 6 languages, one of which, I wrote the grammar for myself; I happen to have a degree in Applied Linguistics; I read Shakespeare; I read Cicero in Latin. I read Dante in Old Italian. I AM a writer. On top of all this, I have done KTL and gotten through 100s of people on it, so I know those materials by heart.

    I find that Marty’s articulate writing is quite interesting — not only for the subject matter being addressed on his blog but also because he uses the English language very well. I do not mean to judge you like you judge him; but I think that you should refrain from posting nonsense such as this: it proves that you are quite the Neanderthal.


  111. JIIZ,

    I’m on the same page with you here.

    Tolerating this type of violence even when it seems “just” only places us at the same level as the culture of violence at the Int Base.

    If there is one thing we should eschew it is that.

  112. You heard of spiritual warriors.

    Well Dave’s a spiritual terrorist.

    He probably was Juan de Torquemada in one of his earlier lives that is when he wasn’t being an inanimate object like a rock or the creature under the rock and never forgot how much fun it was to torture heretics.

  113. Rex Fowler on OT VII, convicted of first-degree murder, February 2011.
    Steve Brackett, Ex of Bart Simpson voicer Nancy Cartwright, suicide 2009.

    This week:
    Attorney Gur Finkelstein, who represents the Scientology Center in Israel, has been indicted for allegedly hiring this gang to help him with his own criminal endeavors (including blowing up a Scientology building to frame someone else).
    “The operation, dubbed “Violet Wreath,” has been said to unearth a plot “stunning in its scope, sophistication and far-reaching ramifications,” police sources said Tuesday.”

    Tip of the iceberg. Tip of the iceberg.

    A lot of people owe a big thank you. Thank you Marty Rathbun for being on post to make sure the original purpose of Scientology isn’t corrupted. Thank you everyone speaking out. More people are on the tails of the criminals harassing good people than they realize. You will be vindicated.

  114. Hail, greeting messenger of Dave.
    Count the OTs dying or who have died of cancer. What percentage of the OT auditing/Scientology population do they comprise?

    Compare to worldwide.
    The American Cancer Society estimates that there are 12,000,000 (12 million) cases worldwide. Wikipedia reports that there were approx. 6,706,993,000 (6.7 billion) people in the world as of July 1,2008. So…0.18% (about 1/3 of one percent) of human population has cancer worldwide.

    How does that compare to the number of OTs/staff/Scientology community?

    Read more:

  115. martyrathbun09

    RJ noted: “Personally I think a lot of Scientologists including Independents tend to underestimate the power of these levels or of auditing in general.” I think overestimation of the power of them is an integral part of the trap that keeps Radical Scientologists locked in a living hell.

  116. Sapere Aude

    Eric, WindWalker

    Thank you for such a beautifully written communication. From the heart with truth. I believe in the future those that look back will see that the only true free beings during this chaotic time were either on this blog, or others like this, or following these blogs. The drops, become a trickle, become a stream, become a river, become a deluge – and then wash away all opposition which attempts to thwart their forward momentum in the rush to be free from the confines of whatever forces attempted to control this free flow intent. Welcome my friend to the only group I know which has the clean intent of good for mankind, with the assistance of the technology left for our use by LRH.

  117. He needs some Depakote (a drug used to treat the manic phase of bipolar disorder)

  118. Classic Troll is Classic

  119. Wonderful Eric, thank you, so beautifully said.

  120. Welcome Eric.
    Clearly you have been walking with this group for some time.
    Lovely to have you here.

  121. +1!!

  122. I think there are many ways people can get cancer without any auditing. Just look at the amount of radiation or chemicals one is exposed to that may make the body cells think they’re dying. Or just a blood vessel restriction that stops oxygen supply or any heavy restriction of survival potential.

    I’m sorry for your friend having died while on OTV and it may very well have been out Tech. I was shocked as well seeing the phenomena of an out list and stunned at the recovery when the correct item was found. It’s real to me that people can get cancer from out Tech but only if unhandled over a prolonged period.

    But the biggest out Tech now is being part of the radical church and getting auditing as that alone puts you at danger. Your item is constantly denied and we know what that means in the long run, so it’s not surprise at all that they fall by the bucket load. Anyone there that gets auditing is at risk and the higher up he is, the more risk.

    Marty has a point as well. Auditors will always be better than pc’s, always, and that’s because they’re at cause. Pc’s are not and thus tend to overrate the power of auditing and thus stay effect by assigning cause over to auditing. I think the ability to do something about it is infinitely more worth than all the money you spend for others to do it for you. And in the end it’s impossible; you’ll still have to step up and do it yourself.

  123. Marty…MArty….MARTY!!!! How come you..??!!….oh I see. A demo how Johnson’s practice their.. uhm ..religion. Point well taken.

  124. Sapere Aude

    Thank you. That was a real treat to read. So pure and simple truth. The essence of what we want – simplicity and truth about ourselves and about life. Without the lies, and dramatization of evil purposes we see in the group under DM. You want to know more of life and help another. Sweet!

  125. There’s also the possibility that the blue asbestos on the Freewinds is substantially responsible for cancer cases among Miscavige followers.

  126. Sapere Aude

    Leonore and Veritas,
    Poor Willie. He, and DM, show there is a no understanding on the part of either that WORDS WILL ALWAYS RETAIN THEIR POWER. Now, he merely wants to quibble about grammar. Tis the words that speak to the world.

    In the following video we could replace government with CoM and change some names and find it quite fitting. There is even a bit about the those that cannot confront the truth so continue to prop up the lies just as this blog main story is about.

  127. LOL, hilarious!

  128. William: how is selling books relevant to this post? Seems perhaps you’re concerned about Marty’s upcoming book?

  129. OMG! That was my thought when I read RJs post, having completed 7. Thanks for putting it in the right perspective, Marty!

  130. Mother of Grendel

    The “Church” passively or actively contributes to the breakup of marriages if one of the spouses is less likely to mortgage the children for the sake of Bridge. This is usually followed by the defaming or declaring of the “disaffected” partner. It seems that the Church’s attitude towards divorced spouses/parents is “just walk away” – no support, no responsibility, no confront. I saw a friend be threatened with declare for expecting to receive child support and 1/2 of the marital debts!
    It’s a tough lesson to learn, but encouraging public to divorce in order to move up the Bridge does not give them more money to do it with… it’s often just the opposite.

  131. Marty,
    The ‘overestimation’ is in terms of the false aim of a human on ultimate steroids. The state of being that is OT is not just homo sap on +20.

    False goals are part and parcel of the trap.

    It is my reality, having experienced it directly, that the awareness level that must exist to some degree, even if just a little below so the being CAN reach up, in order to get the full accomplishment of the auditing at the NOTs level, includes the step up to an entirely different reality of the essential nature of life as it is lived in this universe at this point on the track of this universe.

    Cause over life entails grasping what life actually is. Attainment of that truth necessarily involves leaving behind the falsity. The states of being that a thetan can achieve are beyond the scope of the human condition. OT and ‘human’ aren’t in the same frame of reference.

    DM’s group is pushing a false paradigm. The MEST being, with ‘OT Powers’.

  132. TheWidowDenk

    RJ —

    You state:

    “Poor Megan who was her (Mary Sue’s) attending physician her daughter died under mysterious circumstances. Supposedly a suicide. Some of us speculated that she actually might have been suicided. No proof just speculation. Just speculation that it was some kind of “warning” to Megan to keep her mouth shut about what was actually going on between the “Church” and Mary Sue and why they’d let one of their founding members die like that.”

    I was in comm with Megan at the time. Megan’s daughter committed suicide shortly after Dr. Denk passed. Megan was lined up to speak at his memorial service; after all, they were friends and business partners. After her daughter committed suicide, she understandably declined to speak but did attend the service. No real need for speculation …

    This was all a very disastrous scene and one that would have done well with
    an RTC investigation and subsequent handling. I personally requested an RTC investigation after Dr. Denk’s death but that request was ignored. However, we now know that such an investigation would never have standardly taken place as COB had already gone quite criminal and would do most anything to save his neck.

    This is why, when each of us who are independent, can and should relay any accurate data we have. It really does help connect the dots. In the end, we all have a far better picture of the truth.

    Hope this helps!

  133. This sort of attitude is the result of hidden standards about OT.

    Just what is an OT? Someone who believes and thinks as YOU see fit?

    NO. And probably they are outliers in the common culture. Different, unique and completely themselves.

  134. Sad to say..
    I really have to go along with Rory. I really haven’t met any OT’s I was impressed with because of their OT abilities. This of course doesn’t mean they weren’t capable people and good friends, but observing them I assumed they must be OT on some other plane.

  135. “The fact that you have an email SHOWING the BCC recipients indicates to me that we may have a new Indie in the making…;) ”

    Maybe more than that …

    Each one of those BCC’s now have a copy of Luis Garcia’s letter to DM … and I’ve already had response.

  136. Hey Eric …

    Nicely said!

    You’re close to me … drop me a line lookinforadventure AT

    Note to Kathy: The Canuks WILL take it and bring the Cup home 🙂

  137. Marty,
    Thank you for including Williams comment.
    Proves everyone has a purpose. Even if it is only for a bad example.

  138. TheWidowDenk

    RJ —

    Again, picking up another of your statements:

    Now, I do realize this is out of context of your full comment and you have a great deal more to say. However, to at least this portion, I have a response … see below.

    “All I can say Marty this NOTs thing is a big ugly rock with something sick and evil lying under it. The fact is that NOTs can turn things on like any advanced level that should be handled by either completing the action or repairing the action and completing it.”

    I was a SOLO NOTS auditor for approximately 2 1/2 years. I enjoyed the level and made gains from the auditing. In fact, I have no idea how I would have made it through Dr. Denk’s cycle if I had not been auditing 4-6 sessions daily.

    My Bridge, however, consisted of ample training and processing. I tried to keep a parity of the two sides. When I did the BC (incomplete), it was an attempt to bring up the training side of the Bridge to a level where I was ready for OT VI and VII. I had also done the earlier OT IV, V, and maybe VI (cannot remember).

    I leave it to those far more technically trained (like you) to call the technical shots as you see them. What happened in my particular instance was that, rather than assist me to get to Flag after Dr. Denk’s memorial service, someone ensured I was escorted off post and out of the org, and contacted by the IAS reg. At that point in time, I had missed two refreshers as Dr. Denk’s condition would worsen when I mentioned I should get to Flag.

    After Dr. Denk’s memorial service, I purchased my ticket to Flag. After being escorted off post, I cared enough about the post and its products to cancel my trip, as the above executive action would have crashed it. I did reschedule my trip to Flag for a month or two later. And the first action I had when I arrived at Flag was a sec check. That’s how I remember it.

    The point of all this is: It may not be just a matter of the tech. Most certainly, my cycle was not correctly handled administratively.

  139. Jack Airey

    Eric AKA: Wind Walker;
    Your DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE was a beauty. The hair (what little I have left) on the back of my neck was at attention. Your declaration needs to be emailed around this planet over and over again.


  140. I know some people who did the old OT8 who are pretty OT.
    New OT’s in the Church- I’ll agree that something is wrong there.

  141. Asbestos in walls as insulation is unlikely to harm you. You have to breathe the particles that are stirred up when it is handled. Workers who handled it, installing and removing it over a period of time are the ones who get sick from it.

  142. These days it is probably not a good idea I guess. But I long for the old days when men could have a good fight.

  143. Jack Airey

    Veritas….you take my breath away with your writing…


  144. Spartacus:

    This is about as important as the “10 Commandments”! {LOL}

    The Church of Scientology using its own people to plot to blow up one of their churches so they can make it look like someone else did it!

    Are they crazier than you or me yet, or are some people just hallucinating these stories! {LOL}

    Every day I shake my head about what the hell in the world prompted me to go to an Idle Org in the first place ever for help!

    Love this story Spartacus!

  145. I think the Independent Movement will save lives simply because the proper SP has been found and is being handled.

  146. Scott Campbell

    Yes – I’ve seen data about “whole track out 2-D” as well. Good point.


  147. Okay lovelies. church OTs go to the doctor when it is far beyond tooooooo late.

    dieing is mandatory. no one recovers because of too little too late.

  148. Fellows, fellows, now wait a second.

    Isn’t Yucatan east of Windsor which is just south of the northern part of eastern Acupulco which is west of the most northerly part of southern….just fooling with you…in case you wanted to be exact about boundaries! {LOL}

  149. Scott Campbell

    Nice semantic strangulation Flavio.

  150. Because having cancer means you are immediately an OUTCAST and thus can’t be homo novis OT don’t confront illnesses by contacting their physisian.

    It’s Survival of the fittest baby

  151. TheWidowDenk

    Hey Marty,

    I’m sure you have your reasons for allowing William Johnson’s comments to post, i.e. freedom of speech, public forum, etc. But, if you could just put a symbol or something after it, we could just ignore the comment and continue the discussion on the topic at hand. I didn’t memorize all of OTDT’s suggestions or those who contributed their own. Maybe Eileen has it right?

    * *

    What do you think?

  152. You did it for yourself, confidence my friend.

  153. non-scientologist

    I just read Rich’s page, and I noticed two interesting things.
    1) Other then saying he’s been counseling people for 26 years, he provides no credentials, academic or otherwise.
    2) He doesn’t mention Scientology or dianetics.
    I personally find that deceptive. Before I turned myself over to anyone, I would want to know if they were COS, and I would be subject to recruitment, or involuntary information sharing.

  154. “Architect Lawrence Woodcraft talks about his experiences aboard Scientology’s flagship, the Freewinds. He was brought on board to renovate sections of the ship and quickly uncovered deadly blue asbestos.”

  155. Hallelujah

    Sapere Aude — Incredible comment!

    Eric, WindWalker — Incredible DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

    Welcome under your real name, Eric. L, H

  156. non-scientologist

    To be fair there are some references to LRH on the page, but many people who are not scientologists wouldn’t notice the connection, from casually reading the website.

  157. WindWalker

    Thank you everyone.

    You made me go all misty there with your beautiful acknowledgements. You have not only made me feel welcome, you have made me feel loved. I value your friendship, your points of view, and your contributions to this cause.
    Should anyone choose to communicate privately, I can be reached at:

    Thanks again.

    WW, Aka Eric

  158. Hallelujah

    Veritas = Truth = Love = Ability = Theta = Spirit = _____ = _____
    = _____ = _____ … Just keep filling in the blanks. L, H

  159. freespirit

    Today’s post certainly is very wide ranged: on one end we have Mr. “William Johnson” – trapped and blinded by the darkness of his suppression and evil – on the opposite end of the spectrum- light,truth beauty and freedom from Eric aka WindWalker.

    Eric, I’ve always been impressed by your posts, your depth of perception. I am moving into the Pacific NW soon and I look forward to meeting you and the whole gang up there!

  160. Recipe for cancer:

    Gain profound knowledge and control over life through auditing while denying responsibility for the total destruction of Scientology by David Miscavige. Stir violently. Mix in equal parts NOTs, squirrel ethics handlings and out-tech sec checks intended to introvert while also violating the No Interference Zone policy. Beat. Whip. Now bake for several years. Baste with alternate layers of extensive financial ruin, maxed-out credit cards, and depleted savings accounts all the while contributing to the destruction of Scientology with your own continuous overts of condoning misuse of the disconnection policy, out tech, and squirrel ethics so it is impossible to get a case gain. Remove from oven and let cool while turning a blind eye to “body snatching” — DM’s recruitment of young people and turning them into robotic Nazis. Write your own name on top with the blood of your own Scientology friends (not to mention blood from the hundreds of Sea Org abortions) who have already died while you did nothing. Now eat your own suppression layer cake. You will soon feel deathly ill.


    Physical death follows spiritual death. Reference: Self Analysis.


    Warning: The medicine may be bitter, but it works. Take responsibility through the sensible application of Steps A to E in the Ethics book. (A) Stop committing continuous overts by supporting suppression, so you can get a case gain. (B) Make a public announcement explaining why you supported the Miscavige regime at first (perhaps you were tricked) and expose DM’s conspiracy. (B1) Get the exchange in by recovering any funds ripped off from you and others by the CoM. (B2) Do an amends project of your own design that is clearly and undeniably of benefit to Mankind. (C) Recover your training knowledge and put it to use, rejecting false data from Miscavige that stopped you from applying the tech. (D) Keep notes on all the above. (E) Inform the world when you are done.

    Personal opinion: The suppression we are dealing with goes far beyond a simple doubt formula or routine ethics conditions. It’s more grave than that. As Lady MacBeth discovered, the blood on your hands will not wash off. You either take responsibility or die.

    I have been working on an article on this subject for about a year. It has gone through several morphs and is now on its last revision. IMHO, it’s no mystery why people are dying. As a group we are learning a brutal lesson. We will come through it and the world will be better off for it.

  161. Scott Campbell

    Thanks Ingrid,

    You’re right. And that’s why you’re here with us now.

  162. Scott Campbell

    Dr. Faust,

    If the cases were predominately mesothelioma then I would say that a link to asbestos could be true. I haven’t seen any indication of that however.

  163. Debbie Cook had that M/O down to a fine science, which kept her on post as the Captain FSO (with continuous and steeply down trending statistics) for over 10 years. To this day she is still selling out for her day to day existence.
    It’s some sad shit….


    Yeah Dave, I know. How DID that Basics thing work out for you?
    Have you gotten your GED yet? Or even finished the Basic Study Manual?

  165. Anyway I think there is a lot more to this whole scene than lil’ Dave being colicky.

    I pretty much agree with that.

    That being said, I found auditing outside the Church to be much more enjoyable, as one isn’t being incessantly pelted with organizational agendas of one sort or another.

  166. Yvonne Schick

    Dear Eric, Your comments are always a real contribution but this one tops them all. A beautifully written announcement. Such great certainty on who you are and what you stand for. You have made my day so much brighter. Welcome to you new life as a declared independent being. I am confident it will bring you as much pleasure as you have brought to all of your fellow indies. Much love, Yvonne

  167. WindWalker

    Thanks for your acknowledgements.

    I would love to be of some use in helping anyone unravel this whole sordid affair.
    One of the main reasons for my declaration here is to be another terminal in our area, so yes, feel free to tell anyone you please. Hell I’ve just told the whole dang world, and some of those certainly will not have my best interests at heart.


  168. “…mortgage the children for the sake of Bridge.” LOL

    MOG, you have a way with words!

  169. Flavio, you are a Renaissance Man!

  170. WindWalker

    Thanks Tony,

    I suspect that your group may already contain some people that I know. Thank you for all you do for the Independent cause, and particularly in helping others to continue on their journeys to Total Freedom.
    It is an honor to be accepted as some part of that.


  171. Scott Campbell

    Perhaps the prodigious amounts of coal smoke drifting over from China to the U.S is also a factor…

  172. I read a large portion of “El Poema de Mio Cid,” in the original 14th century Spanish, in the ninth or tenth grade. (Finally bombed out on misunderstood words, it was a tough go.)

  173. freespirit

    Regarding the OT levels and your comments concerning their long term effects on OTs: I would like to share my own personal experience. I did the original OT levels. I worked very diligently to get up the Bridge and do the levels. I was not disappointed. I got more than I bargained for, and I was grateful. I was doing great in life. I was profoundly affected by doing the levels.

    However, the Bridge changed and the new levels came out, What happens to those remarkable abilities and wins I had? Where did those levels go, what do I do with all this stuff? Why am I now not OT 7, but OT 3? Huh? I didn’t understand. I asked these questions in D of P’s , I brought them up in sessions. I wanted an “R factor”. I got NOTHING. Despite my continued originations about this, the response was to ignore me.

    I thought that was interesting. I was upset, bothered. Then I started looking at this this: why should I even care about an “R factor”. Why should I be bothered by the lack of response to me? Did I not make true gains? Did I not get wins beyond my expectations that are real to me? This got me re-evaluating some things- including the over arching “group think” or “group acceptance” of things. And I concluded that no matter what anyone did or say – no one could take away, nullify, invalidate, pretend I never got my own wins, my gains. I reaffirmed for myself then that eternity – my existence – would be as I dictated it. It belonged to me and the only person who could tamper with it would be me. And truth be told, no org, no individual, no powers that be can take away any state that I achieved. So certs no longer mattered. What did matter in the end was my cold hard certainty of self. Now and for ever. In any case, I knew I was in a good place, and I had no interest in doing the new levels. I didn’t have a disparaging view about them – it’s simply just that I felt I didn’t need to do them.

    I thought it was wrong however that the tech people sort of just ignored these originations and I saw a level of out-tech that was profound. Not something that one individual auditor committed, but a blanket operating basis or practice. That also raised my eye brows.

    Then the amount of sec checking that started taking place…. we are all familiar with that. In fact, despite my being a very productive SO member, in the entire time I was there, the majority of any auditing that I received was sec checking. I found these to be dangerous because I found myself introverting and mocking things up to run. And then I found myself mocking up case to be solved. And with that I found myself feeling less able and less OT. Ok, enough, I said.

    On a very personal level, I had realized that to continue in that operation would be the death of me – I felt conflicted since I was living under a banner of purported freedom, that to think the very place that was to give us freedom and light would be the place that was also making me feel as of I were dying a slow death. The attack of the OT was quiet, but the undercurrent of its devalued existence as a staff member was made ever real to me. Not that I even needed validation. But there was no communication about it. It was just never acknowledged as anything that really existed much less to be respected. It just somehow just wasn’t there.

    Many, many years after being out I got a call from someone who had wanted to get me back on services, and they had gone over my folders and the C/S wanted to give me an “R -factor”. It actually made me laugh and shake my head. I didn’t need an “R-factor”. I think one just gets to a point where he or she knows themselves pretty darn well. Ha, how else can you really “operate”?

  174. WindWalker


    “How in the hell does OSA go about getting his computer?”

    They probably simply DEMAND it. They may use excuses like, “we are concerned about confidential materials being leaked”, or “there may be ‘intel’ on the independents on it, and we need it to ‘protect’ the church”, or some such. ( they would likely be concerned that something on it may be damaging to the churches “image”, or they are still looking for anything that they can use to further destroy the person’s credibility, or to use against the surviving family and friends.) Point is that no one who wishes to continue to be connected to the church would likely DARE to refuse an ORDER from OSA.


  175. When I was in the Flag RPF in 2005 I pointed out that doing hundreds, if not thousands of hours of False Purpose Rundown (FPRD) auditing in the middle of OT 7 violated the technical reference on not mixing major auditing actions.

    In response to my origination I was asked “Do you think we would do something here at Flag if it wasn’t standard?” I gave the obvious answer – “Yes.”

    I soon persisted and got out of the RPF and the Sea Org. The other OT 7 RPF member that I was supposed to twin with when I arrived (Alain K.) did try to do the squirrel RPF program ( his only hope of seeing his wife again).

    I later heard that Alain died in the RPF due to cancer.

    Did out tech contribute to him dying? Did the heavy suppression to his dynamics contribute to him dying? I can’t say for sure, but I can say that
    the situation existed, he was in a NASTY trap and I felt bad for him and the other RPFers (some of which were imprisoned for over 10 years).

  176. Mike Hobson

    Holy Crap!
    It’s perfect!!!!

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  177. Mike Hobson

    Well, it was perfectly comprehensible Standard English so far as I can see. But then, I actually graduated High School with good grades in English Grammar and Composition.

    Complaining about the form of the message rather than discussing the message itself is the hallmark of a man with no rebuttal.

    The rest of your comment is nothing but an Ad Hominem attack on Marty and the rest of the Independents. Another unoriginal Fallacy of Argument, dear child.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist.

  178. I had the name wrong. It was Frank Davis and I understand he was ill and he could not handle the pain any more.

    There are several Franks out of the church and I sometimes get them confused.

  179. I read his Xwife gave it them.

  180. I talk to a person on FB and he talked to Frank a lot and is am empath.

    The being said he was depressed, I suppose the pain and he is doing ok now. That he is fine.

    I felt the death myself. I now think I have an ability in this direction.

    I read his Xwife was the one that handled OSA the computer.

  181. That’s one way to look at it. However, Miscavige has been delivering physical and moral beat-downs for years, which I’d witnessed numerous times. Didn’t solve a damn thing — only proved to me that he was incapable of controlling his rage, despite supposedly knowing/having the technology…

  182. Good on ya Eric and welcome. 1971 was a banner year for all of us who got into Scn that particular year. Magic.

    ML Tom

  183. Rachel, there is an old belief that when a messenger delivers his message, he is destroyed (modern days would be dead-agented) to keep the message confidential. However, this particular messenger might have told his wife things so the wife has to be destroyed too.

    ML Tom

  184. Joe Howard

    That’s it? 0.25%? From the stories in the mainstream media I thought it was at least 25%. I’ve been duped. (Again. Susan Lewis. Cancer. My title of World’s Most Gullible Person is safe. Of course, any CoS parishioner could rip it from me at any time.)

  185. love it! awesome reference thanks for sharing

  186. martyrathbun09

    Great suggest. One of the reasons I put his comments up from time to time is that they parallel Miscavige’s mind precisely. One thing Miscavige ran on me incessantly was that “you can’t write; you think you can; but you can’t write for shit.” I realized after a while that he commonly did this to get me out of the room where Int guys were putting their speeches together. He hated that I would regularly smell falsehoods and tell Guillaume or Marc Yager or Ray, “hey, you can’t just make shit up.”

  187. Tony Dephillips

    Eric ,
    My pleasure. We have get togethers all the time. If you like 3-d activities you can join us. We have other Canadians who make the trip down too.

  188. Some even stayed with book 1 and never became Scientologists

  189. So low ARC does not mean low on ARC

  190. WJ,
    a free mind should disagree with what it finds rejectable.

    You state that you disagree with Marty’s grammar. That’s your priority, obviously.

    But I disagree fully, completely and from the depths of my heart with all those “OTs” who got cancer and went through a painful process of dying. Note that they had put their faith in LRH and – erroneously – in Co$, underwent all procedures they were told to do, paid and paid and paid even more, learned to agree with Co$ and to ignore its obvious outpoints, did their best to become good Scientologists, supported Co$ with activities and donations, and so on.

    I remember the faces of those “cancer OTs” that I knew (almost all of them died). They were not bad people, none of them. They were a bit more agreeable than I was. And they paid dearly for that.

    A great many people witnessing these “cancer OTs” have been figuring about this mystery and have by-passed charge on it. LRH promised happiness and health even below OT, and these “OTs” experience quite the opposite. WJ, all propaganda in the world cannot make these deaths go away.

    I do appreciate very much that Marty is going to shine more light on this ugly matter of “cancer OTs”.

    And if you like to live and to be healthy, you should too, WJ.

  191. Well the stuff came loose during the redoing and it remained in the airvents

  192. WindWalker


    “Auditors will always be better than pc’s, always, and that’s because they’re at cause.”
    Yes, the auditor is the control point, but for most of the upper bridge the PC and the auditor are the same person. It is the only way that a being could ever reach the highest levels of freedom, because he MUST eventually assume the viewpoint or beingness of being total cause.

    We used to have a joke around my neck of the woods that suggested that the highest OT level would be the “auditing out” of Scientology. It seems one cannot be totally free until he is able to be TOTAL cause. At some point in our development as beings we will need to let go of the “lifeline” that is Scientology.

    Reminds me of a joke. ( I may have taken a few liberties with it.)

    This guy has stepped too close to the edge of a very high cliff, slipped,and fallen over. Part way down he somehow managed to grab hold of a small tree clinging to the cliff face. He notices that his weight is slowly pulling the tree from its hold. He looks up toward Heaven and calls out, “Oh God please help me. I will do anything that you ask, but please spare my life.” There is a rumbling from above and a great booming voice fills the valley. The voice says…”You will survive but only if you let go of the branch.” The man is stunned. He calls out.. “But if I let go of the branch I will fall to my death.” The booming voice again…”let go of the branch.” The frantic man hangs there for a moment longer as the tree continues to loosen. Finally he calls out again…
    ” Is there anybody else up there?”

    At some point I feel we all have to “let go of the branch”


  193. Tony Dephillips

    Great post Steve.
    Your post made me cog that if we just REVERSE everything Dm is running we will get it all right.
    Love the new a-e steps!!

  194. Thank you for that comment Freespirit,
    Very inspiring!

    Personally I think what is going on is a gross violation of the HCOPL Tech Degrades, Tech Down Grades and the HCOB C/S Series 2.

    I remember we were still getting cases who had quickie grades in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

    We didn’t invalidate them by saying you had Quickie grades and your grades are invalid.

    We just said that there are more gains to be had on the lower grades and that we are expanding them like Ron said to do in the LRHED regarding it.

    I also remember when I was auditing at AO doing preps we’d get some old timer who had many of the grades processes in the 60’s.

    Instead of just plowing ahead with grade auditing and invalidating any wins they had we used to rehab the grade EPs they had and if needed fill in any missing grades.

    I think this whole tendency to invalidate the earlier Grade Chart probably started with the “New” OT Levels.

    Yet I still remember the distinction being made that the Pre OT was “Original OT VII” doing NOTs or whatever until the arrival of the Technical perversion known as the “Golden Age of Tech” at which point there was a total invalidation of whatever came before it.

    In fact that’s the reason why I got the hell out of the Squirrel Group.

  195. Technically, low ARC means poor or even damaging/dangerous ARC.

    CD, check out the chart in the back of “Science of Survival” to get a sense of low and high ARC in Scientologese. (The chart can probably be found online — the full name is “Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation”).

  196. Of course, you are right. I forgot to ask about which types of cancer occured.

  197. Thanks Rachel,

    You are right RTC would have never done a standard invest because they were pretty well compromised at this point.

    In fact if any “investigation” would have been done it would more likely have been a cover up of some kind.

    One wonders what Megan would have said if she wasn’t so shattered by grief at the time?

  198. Thoughtful-beautifully put!

  199. All the ones who matter most right now have your best interests at heart, my friend:)

  200. I have never met Debbie Cook and do not know what’s in her heart. However, I have read the story here of how she was abused in the Hole at Int and how she and her husband finally escaped the day-to-day wrath of David Miscavige. Those stories certainly made me respect her native courage.

    I’ve also looked at her Facebook site, which is telling. She is very careful NOT to say anything specific, one way or the other, about anything. Most of her posts are LRH quotes and could be exhorations to her (WISE-affiliated?) dentist clients to promote themselves and their practices. Or she could be encouraging her old Co$ public Flag clientele to stay the Co$ course. Or the LRH quotations could even be mistaken for sekrit messages she is passing to Indies to flourish and prosper. I cannot, for the life of me, get any kind of viewpoint about anything she has ever posted there.

    The other bizarre thing about her FB page is that she has more friends than any other real person (not celebrities) I know. She has thousands and thousands of friends. Either she is really loved beyond anything I’ve ever seen or some kind of mass DM order went out to all Flag Koolaiders that they were all to befriend Debbie and surround her in their suffocating embrace. In fact, I’m surprised this woman can even breathe. SHE SEEMS TO HAVE NO SPACE OF HER OWN AT ALL.


  201. Thanks Rachel,

    Administrations exists so that auditing can get done.

    On the most basic level as in auditor administration it exists so that the C/S and Auditor know what auditing actions were taken especially so aren’t done again or so that if they were run incorrectly they can be corrected.

    It is particularly important when any listing has occurred so these lists can be repaired if needed.

    Since auditing over out lists is like taking a walk through a mine field.

    I’m sure you know all this.

    However admin as practiced in the Squirrel Group these days is more likely used to *prevent* auditing and this is what happened in your case.

    If I was your C/S.

    I would have demanded that your senior find a replacement or HFA and that you were gotten into session as soon as possible after your loss and instead of *sec checking* I would have handled the *secondary*.

    What they did to you shows just how callous the Government Approved Squirrel Group had become.

    To audit anyone over a Loss which itself is a huge ARCX especially on sec checks is just plain *cruelty*.

  202. ‘stay tuned. be connected. communicate. have your integrity. peace.´
    -Marty Rathbun

    Happy to know you and be your friend.


  203. “We used to have a joke around my neck of the woods that suggested that the highest OT level would be the “auditing out” of Scientology”

    Actually, LRH does mention this somewhere – unfortunately, I don’t have the reference at hand.

    My auditing (for the most part) and my training are pleasure ‘moments’ for me … but could be a sticker when considering total Cause.

  204. Actually as an HGC auditor and I worked in Qual I always send a PC or Pre OT who reported to me ill or injured straight to the doctor per the HCOPL “Dianetic Registration” and the HCOB “Handling Physically Ill PCs and Pre OTs”.

    In many cases it was the PC or Pre OT who objected to going to the doctor and preferred going to some New Age quack who feed ’em some disgusting gruel or zapped ’em with some insane bug zapper.

    In some cases I had to fight with my seniors in order to get the person to a *Medical Doctor* because the squirrelly New Agey *Squirrel* was either a friend of theirs or some kind of Patron Parasite who fed off the Orgs sick public and in some cases made ’em *sicker*.

  205. Yeah I agree.

    Just put a sign on his comments saying:


  206. WindWalker

    Thank you veritas, beautifully stated.


  207. Hello Sapere Aude,
    Thanks for the video reference. I have not seen the movie – don’t always keep up with pop culture, but this looks interesting. I’ll have to put it on my list. This must be where Anonymous got the idea for the masks! I have to say, it does appear that RS has become the oppressive entity that those of us rooted in Enlightenment principles teach our children to be on guard against. It has become what LRH cautioned us about! Yikes!

    Yes, Marty’s words and meaning in this article are perfectly clear to me and to most of us here. Willie’s attempts to push buttons are weak and off the mark, but it’s fun to kick silly little “Mr. Johnson” around a little – just some tit-for-tat (a most winning game strategy!).


  208. WindWalker

    Thank you for your wonderful ack.
    My “declaration” is now in the public domain. It was offered because I felt it might help in some way.
    Feel free to have your way with it.


  209. Foremost,

    Could be because your gains are not being continually invalidated in a suppressive environment and that you allowed to have your wins.


  210. WindWalker


    Ahhhh…. You just gotta love the sound of that. I know I do.


  211. Mother of Grendel

    Thanks, Lynne

  212. ARC is just affinity, reality and communication. It’s between two people. It’s not something that one person “has”, as in “he has a lot of ARC”. If you talk to someone on the phone you say we were in communication and now I understand him a little better, and perhaps like him more (affinity).
    A higher-toned person will have a higher potential for having ARC with people and things around him. But also you might notice that groups can have a tone level and people of the same tone level gravitate together.

  213. Hallelujah

    Yup, I agree it’s a good idea to put up his comments from time to time to remind us of Miscavige’s mind.

    * *
    __ and carry on! L, H

  214. I don’t know. It’s not really an important topic, but:
    Asbestos exposure becomes a health concern when high concentrations of asbestos fibers are inhaled over a long time period.[33] People who become ill from inhaling asbestos are often those who are exposed on a day-to-day basis in a job where they worked directly with the material. As a person’s exposure to fibers increases, because of being exposed to higher concentrations of fibers and/or by being exposed for a longer time, then that person’s risk of disease also increases. Disease is very unlikely to result from a single, high-level exposure, or from a short period of exposure to lower levels

  215. Matt,

    I see they were playing the *Authority* card there.

    That’s how I wound up on the TRD by questioning the *divine* rightness of Management and RTC.

    Me being the querulous type used to question or query orders all the time if I didn’t agree with them, even Ron’s.

    Ron never once said to me.

    “Well I was the one who developed the subject and you’re going to do what I say.”

    Or anything like that.

    But when the *coup* took over.

    It seemed like their inane and insane orders became sacred all of a sudden.

    I got this “lesson” when I was auditing at AO and had the bold audacity to query a C/S by God’s Messenger Joyce Issacson.

    As if her “C/Ses” were inscribed on some tablet found near some burning bush or something.

    Oh please!

    Talk about the self importance of the not too bright!

    Joyce if you’re reading this.

    You were one of the lousiest C/Ses I’ve ever audited for.

    Even worse than James Marchant and that’s saying something.

    However you both would have made great tin star despots.

  216. Hallelujah

    Thanks Tom! This is a wonderful parable you relay in your comment. It has a great deal of reality for me after what I have observed for the last seven years. L, Rachel

  217. Amy,

    The guy was nothing but a *fraud* and probably a mole.

    Always was and still is.

    His actions of destroying the Church of Scientology are simply masked by his ***false*** authority as it “Spiritual Leader” and “Pope”.

  218. Hallelujah

    And there you have it in a nutshell! That’s why we communicate … L, H

  219. This is a HUGE, HUGE, issue. Is it the tech or the culture? PTS is PTS and suppression is suppression. I couldn’t believe the entheta that was dumped on public while they were on lines. After one training cycle at Flag , where public were made to run as if they were on the RPF, and being called “pool pigs”, I decided I would not train there again. I trained in the Freezone at a Freezone Academy and those were the best days of my life. The mere fact people ARE ALL THE WAY UP UP THE BRIDGE AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED to go more than six months without a sec check as if they were criminals is inval in itself. What were the Super Power beggars telling them? “We have to get Super Power Building and deliver Super Power because all of the OT’s are out ethics!” (How out ethics is to beg for no exchange and withold the tech and run a can’t have on people and have to have before you can do?) And WHY were “All the OT’s out ethics?” Because they did not join the Sea Org! Because they would not align themselves with such out ethics! Well, I could write a book about the outpoints. I think it’s more the suppression of the culture than anything else. I am getting NOTS and the benefits to my health and physical well being are too numerous to mention. I have a great auditor in the Freezone and I am very happy with the Scientology as I am knowing it now.

  220. At that place called solo nots on the bridge, on lines, all of Scientology you experience is a must have or a can’t have. That is what it seemed to me. And the people on solo nots were NOT happy campers. The lowest tones spot at the base was the Sandcastle.

  221. New GAT OTVIII are David Miscavige’s products and their case has been mess up by Miscavige’s technology. Yes! They need a good clean up by Marty R.

  222. one of those who see

    LOL!! they’re just having some fun! Boys will be boys!
    So, Hi Eric!! Is it warming up, up there yet?
    Yes, we are all one group and it is so great that you are here.

  223. I haven’t read Marty’s comment yet so I won’t comment on that yet but I disagree that PCs or Pre OTs “overrate” auditing since auditing done well can deliver gains beyond the PC or Pre OT’s wildest expectations.

    However I agree that lack of training is a factor in all of this and also a false sense of security in the belief that just because they have done the Solo Course they can handle anything that comes up on the Advanced Levels.

    Worse than not knowing is thinking that you know something when you don’t which is Miscavige’s SOP by the way which can be summed up as KNOW BEST.

    And is itself a deadly illness right up there with Q&A which could also be a factor in these OT deaths as well.

    That is the Pre OT restimulates an area of case and instead of *handling* it they blow from it and do something else.

    The factor is that when you have an untrained Pre OT.

    You have to have C/Ses who actually *C/S* and Review Auditors who actually *review* the case instead of ordering and doing another sec check or sending them to some Squirrel Group approved *Quack* who will feed them nothing but gruel or zap them with some squirrelly bug zapper.

    And yes there are many environmental factors that cause cancer and I am not ignoring these however as you well know there are actual conditions that can turn on in auditing and that the maxim here is “What turns it on will turn it off” according to the HCOPL ‘Processing’.

  224. +1 on this, Jim.

    Cause over life at a tone level of +20 or +30 is quite different than cause over life at a tone level of controlling bodies and owning bodies.

    Miscavige is a mest being, at the lowest trenches of degradation. His idea of “admiration” is his sappy adoration of TC’s body and having TC adore his body and mest buildings.

    Those of us who embarked on the journey of the bridge from a predominatly spiritual viewpoint see Cause over life in terms of liberating theta, creating theta and enhancing theta.

    Miscavige and his so-called-church see Cause over Life as being totlly free to crush any being who trys to stop them from attaining their mest goals. That’s why so many upper echelon WISE guys are seemingly devoid of scruples. They are living thier dream. And their justifications lean heavily on their pretense of forwarding the purely spiritual goal of a civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights.

    Twisted the hell out of that one they did.

    You, Marty, Trey, Ingrid, Karen et al. can communicate with Life and by that alone can liberate and help life blossom.

    miscavige is only capable of seeing the crass force of power crushing others into obedience. He relishes and revels in its glorious effect.

    Cause over Life, to me, is the ability to be in the presense of life and as-is, upon inspection, those lies that prevent that life from flourishing.

    How can one possibly attain Cause over Life inside the cult miscavige has built? Every good being on NOTs who is trying to use the NOTs tech for freedom inside the cult KNOWs that something is terribly wrong with his group. Many just can’t quite confront the evil queen that resides in the center of that termite hill. Many can’t quite confront the loss of income or the loss of a family member or friend. But that lack of confront is the key to them becoming cause over their own life.

    The degree of complexity is directly proportional to the degree of non-confront. Lot of complexity in that group.

  225. one of those who see

    Eric, do you have a website? Would love to see your work.

  226. RJ

    “You heard of spiritual warriors.
    Well Dave’s a spiritual terrorist.”

    He hasn’t twigged to the fact that he has a bomb strapped to his chest yet though.
    I highly recommend that nobody stand too close. It is just a matter of time before he “blows”, and anyone standing too close is going to get a lotta SP splattered all over themselves. The damn stuff is a real bitch to get off.


  227. WW,
    Incredible posts! Thanks for standing up! You’re awesome! ml, Laura

  228. The more I read and try to understand the effects of radical Scn the more the concept of a square wheel materialises – just as workable.

  229. martyrathbun09

    I didn’t say “overrate auditing’, I was referring to “overrating” the potential “power” in the sense of danger. Mind’s protection, people. DMSMH. To forget that is to set onself up for self imposed overwhelm, just like the little one wants you to do.


    “Myth number three: the “safe” level of exposure

    The notion that there is a safe level of exposure to asbestos has been around for a long time. These levels are not the product of objective scientific research. They reflect a hard fought defence of the profits and defence of the industry, tempered by reluctant concessions to the health of workers and the community. Nor is “safe” used in its normal sense. “Safe” becomes the number of deaths that the industry, aided and abetted by government, deemed “acceptable” at the time the standard was set.”

  231. New Age Quaks, You hate them too I feel close to you now.

  232. “Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”: FDR’s First Inaugural Address

    People it’s like Voodoo. believing you will get ill makes you ill indeed.

    Just like thinking you get pneumonia from a certain thing;)

    It’s Psychosomatic

  233. Again I disagree Marty.

    I don’t think it has any thing to do with the “overestimation” of the levels themselves but the overestimation of the Squirrel Group itself and the *belief* that the Government Approved and Tax Exempt Squirrel Group is the only *authorized* purveyor of these levels.

    Yes I agree that the thetan himself is very powerful and everything.

    But don’t you think if he was able to get out of the trap without auditing he would have done it by now?

    All the Squirrel Group is doing right now is claiming that they are the exclusive road to freedom and holding up their fancy Tax Free certificate and their so called *status* as a Government approved “Religion”.

    We are the “Church of Scientology” because the Government says we are.

    And Miscavige is the “leader” because the media and the Government say he is.

    This is the agreement that I broke when I left that sorry bunch spinning squirrels in the Org.

    However having audited thousands of hours of auditing myself and having personally witnessed miraculous results myself I can say with total certainty that anyone who underestimates the value of auditing or the actual levels that Ron developed has no reality on it or them.

    That’s the way I see it and will always see it and no “reasonable” argument is going to change my opinion on that point.

    I mean if it was all up to the thetan than why bother sitting in the chair behind a meter on either side?

    Just because the Suppressive Squirrel Group invalidates the power of auditing.

    It doesn’t mean that we should follow in their footsteps and say it’s all hot air.

    You said yourself that Miscavige himself invalidated anyone who claimed they had gained or more accurately regained some OT ability of some kind or said they were operating as a thetan.

    I’m pretty sure he was doing this on behalf of his “friends”.

    But even if we ignore what Ron says in maybe dozens of lectures, PLs and GO Directives.

    The fact is that the Church of Scientology has gone into some kind of reverse polarity of some kind where auditing has actually become detrimental and that instead of regaining his or her abilities becomes more caved in and in some cases goes psychotic or even dies.

    *Proving* that auditing is “dangerous”.

    And I believe this is an intentional effort to discredit auditing and by association training and in general Scientology.

    And I believe that this is an intentional effort (and we won’t say by who for now since it doesn’t matter) that has been planned for some time.

    Probably since the CIA witnessed for themselves the capability and power of these levels during the Remote Viewing project.

    (Levels that are no longer delivered to the public in general within the Squirrel Group.)

    Maybe even earlier when they discovered that Dianetics could undo or at least expose their efforts at mind control.

    As far as I’m concerned Miscavige is late on the chain of an engram that fails to erase because there is earlier material before it.

    I mean all an SP is is a dramatization of an *engram*.

    And almost all engrams come in chains.

    Something that anyone who has done the HSDC or NED Course would have done in clay.

    And far as I’m concerned Miscavige is late on the chain.

    However that is neither here nor there.

    The fact is that someone is working very hard in plain sight to take down the technology of Scientology by offering a perverted and altered or more accurately a *squirrel* version of it to the public at large.

    A version that has been so perverted that it is capable of killing people.

    In a word or two words actually:


    As BLACK as it gets or more precisely BLACK DIANETICS for OTs.

    It could be more accurately called BDOTs instead of NOTs.

    So that’s the way I see it Marty.

  234. TheWidowDenk

    Thanks RJ! Interestingly enough, though, I also had a CS and D of P change at Flag date-coincidentally with everything else that was going on. Good grief, you would have thought I was going to sue or something. Clearly subversive actions. L, Rachel

  235. I only know what I know. Within a couple months of completing OT8 in 2005, I started having somatics and later became ill. By the time I made it to Marty’s house in March 2011 I was in chronic pain and it was effecting my quality of life. I had been to a number of doctors. Nothing helped. The moment I walked into Marty and Mosey’s home, the pain literally disapeared for the whole time I was there. The imediate feeling was, wow, now this is real Scientology at work!
    I won’t lie. I still have some problems but, at least 70 to 80% of that pain is permanently gone since that vist.
    I was asked by a church member after visiting Marty, “what could have happened to YOU in Midland Texas that could have been so bad?.” I didn’t answer the question because, I was talking to a fixed viewpoint. But the answer is, it wasn’t what happened to me that bothered me. It was the damage done to good dedicated people I was hearing of over and over. People who went through horrendous conditions so I could “go free”. I know OT’s who are “in” right now that would do things that people shouldn’t do to “go free.” I’m here to tell you, if you are “in” working to “go free” on other’s peoples suffering, it will Never happen! I would put my Declared Ass up against any one of those guys any day of the week.
    It is my belief that the only reason Marty (and Mike and Steve) is attacked so heavily is because he gets results!
    I hope those OT’s get it together for their own sakes. love, Laura

  236. I’m not sure that many got the significance of this point. To me it seems very vital and the most important point in that post.
    It deserves a thread on its own. Many in the earlier Independent field have tried to establish vertical loyalties. They have tried to establish themselves as “authorities”.
    Horizontal loyantly, as I understand your communication, is far more powerful.
    Please elucidate in detail – I think it will lead to a strenghtening.

    “Enslaved peoples and freed peoples for millennia have understood that horizontal bonds are more important, more valuable, and more durable than vertical ones. They understand innately that vertical loyalties, while in the short-run sometimes remunerative, are cancerous when they are used to impose oppression and treachery onto horizontal lines.”

  237. One of those who see

    Yes, finally it is warming up a bit. We are having a late spring but it is starting to shape up pretty good now.


  238. Welcome Eric nice post.

  239. It is particularly curious that the core nucleus at the center of the “Church of Scientology” is a group that specializes in pejorative PhotoShopping of it’s “Arch Enemies” (a chihuahua, auditors, TinkerBell, poets, actors, directors, artists) and spinning lies “to ruin” people on libel/defamation sites that can’t come up with more than twisted fabrications and self-revealing perversion by accusations that some person g has had sex when…


    What does the “Church of Scientology” have to say about their very own attorney indicted in plots to blow up buildings and MURDER?

    Absolutely no question, this organization is rotting from the core.

  240. Thoughtful, very well stated…got love that a-e. It is right on the money!

  241. one of those who see

    Sorry, no. Actually I never got that far on internet 101. I was sculpting for TV commercials and some movie jobs for a while there, (I have retired from that part) but I have not done fine art sculpture for some time now, unless you consider (like I do) that systematically landscaping my 5 acre property is sculpture. Not the same, I know, but it keeps me healthy and it is creative. Anything creative pretty much works for me.

    Maybe I will find a way to get a few things up on the web yet.



  242. Scott Campbell

    Wonderful comment Steve.

    I too love those A-E steps you recommend. Can’t wait to see the new article. Thanks for the S/A ref.


  243. freespirit

    Yes, that would be grand. I am looking forward to meeting the whole gang myself. I consider a lot of Scientologists in this area to be my friends. I know there will be some who will feel it necessary to cut our comm line, but I am hopeful that we will all come out of this a little further UP the spiral.


  244. Got it, Rory. Thanks for clarifying. In similar observations, I realized it’s important to look at the clay demo, not the significance (paper label). It’s tragic that so many have given it a bad name… but the name is not the thing.

  245. martyrathbun09

    I recommend you watch the movie Spartacus for starters.

  246. Thanks guys.

    Your communications, well wishes and validations have inspired me to write a poem.


    Standing on the edge of a cliff
    overlooking the open sea,
    arms outstretched in welcome,
    I leaned into the breeze.

    I longed for greater wisdom,
    I longed to truly be free.
    I longed to reach the Heavens,
    so I stepped out onto the breeze.

    Eric Strudwick
    Aka WindWalker

  247. I see a Drug Personality. Replacing one drug (or more) with another in an attempt to handle addiction is not, imho, an ideal solution. Especially not an alcoholic with a drug known to cause and exacerbate liver damage.

  248. Ideal Morgue

    Question for anyone – Isn’t adultery considered a Suppressive Act/High Crime? How come the people involved, Rich Nisbit and Lynette Maas, were not declared SP? In the Sea Org they would have been RPFed.

  249. Although this is probably obvious to all the stellar independent auditors, if you use your computer to store your PC data, contact info, etc, I would recommend that you encrypt your PC files (and whatever else) with a good encryption program, such as Steganos.

    It is all too obvious that OSA makes it a priority to steal data from computers when they can. The technology exists to prevent your private data from falling into supressive hands should you have your PC stolen or you depart this life before formally retiring and selling your practice, etc.

    As Oscar Goldman told the team who put the 6 Million Dollar Man back together, “we have the technology”.

    May all your F/Ns be dial wide…


  250. Hi,

    My name’s Henri, and I’ve never visited this site before. And I don’t know anything about Scientology. And I don’t know who Marty or Mike are to save my soul. But, I have to say, this site is getting weirder and weirder.

    Can someone explain to me just why sneaking around behind your spouse’s back and having an affair is so bad? And if you’re having an affair, of course you should be lying to the spouse about it.


    No sense getting in trouble about such a silly little diversion.

    None of you seem to understand how the real world operates.

    Take business. Never tell your client the truth about your product. How can you sell by being truthful? The more lies the better. And better still is if you can dupe the client into spending all his money so he’ll have nothing left to sue you with when you don’t even deliver what you “”””””promised””””””” (snicker).

    He’s left bankrupt and you’re flying to Vegas for a little high-priced nookie.

    Survival of the fittest.

    Only the strong survive.

    Never give a sucker an even break.

    Get a life you guys. Then you’ll see how the real world operates.

    Lying to your spouse is such a rush when they’re all sooooo worried about you cheating. They’re so confused and helpless.

    But not nearly as helpless as when you have the power to lock them away some place where no one else can find them. Talk about really being helpless and confused! The look in their eyes. Priceless. The desperation. Such a rush going down to the dungeon for periodic visits just to watch her grovel.

    And the people guarding her are convinced you’re right and she’s wrong!

    Fucking right she’s wrong. Kept holding me back. Worried about me messing around behind her back. Joke’s on her.

    Fuck her noise about communication. Fuck all of you people’s noise about communication. All this bleating about honesty and communication just makes me want to vomit.

    The only thing a sheep is good for is shearing. Well, one other thing.

    There’s not another single fucking person on this planet worthy of communication. Especially not my communication. I’m way more valuable and more important than all the rest of you combined.


    Unless you’ve got some money. Or enough fame to attract some other people who have some money. Then I can pretend you’re worthy of my interest.

    Which makes me wonder why I’m even bothering to write to a bunch of half-wits who can’t put two participals together to formulate a subjunctive thereby devolving a superlative adverb that extrapolates formative gerunds bracketed by prepositions followed by pejorative dislocutions. Since none of you could possibly understand such simple statements, I won’t even go into the significance of mitochondrial integers fractating in ellipsoidal amalgams shunted to bipolar propagants of Calypso scatological emergicides.

    Suffice to say, that until more of you have grasped these simple statements, I’m not about to release any of my truly, mind-boggling, universe-shattering ideas which will absolutely turn your lives inside out.

    All I got to say is that you people need a severe reality adjustment if you think honesty really has a place in the real world.

    But, I’m new here so I don’t really understand why any of you pay any attention at all to that Marty character. Why don’t you just all grow up and do something else. Anything else. Anything. I don’t fucking, goddamned care what. Anything.


    Dr. Bob Edwards — who is really, really new here.

  251. +1

  252. Oh man, that is a priceless snapshot of reality (telling three of the most senior execs in SCN “Hey, you can’t just make shit up”). Right up there with two of the then-most senior RTC execs at the FLB, Angie and Rikki (sp.,) arguing with a ruler and a slow-mo machine about lengths of reads! Priceless!

  253. Sapere Aude

    I feel exactly what you have written. You reached a state of OT that is almost unknown and unheard of today. History cannot just write you away and therefore the change of title, status, attainment – whatever you want to call it. You reached OT VII. The current public attain New OT VII. An attempt to bury the original doesn’t make it go away. Possibly someone wants us all to forget about it or those that know and did it to die away. Not so easy.

    Only in that manner can these original levels be released with new titles and the pretense they are something new and great. Current New OT VII, as great as it is, is the final step of negative gain. Your OT VII was in a world of positive gain. I would say most who have never seen an OT that impressed them have not seen the likes of many of the original full OT VII’s.

    Just the original OT VI, “Ability to operate freely as a thetan exterior and to act pan-determinedly, extends the influence of the thetan to the universe of others.” (Grade Chart 1970), can only be dreamed of by most today if they even knew of it. That ability, under the current regime, must be curtailed, contained or destroyed. Only in the Independent field, such as on this blog, would that ability be allowed to exist.

    To be exterior, to act pan-determined, to influence the universe of others – very very dangerous to those controlling the current flock. No, you don’t need any validation. I can assure you that your personal certainty of self is as stable as anything that can be found to compare it. You don’t scare me. You don’t scare us (Indie’s, blog family). You do scare them – the evil in control and the enablers keeping him there.

    Thanks for being here.

  254. Joe Pendleton

    Haven’t been in computer contact for a few days and so haven’t been able to read all the comments here yet and not able to download the attachments either (will read them when I get home in a couple of days) but still wanted to get in my two cents worth (of course!).

    Marty, you could not be more correct about the horizontal vs. vertical issue and also about The Code of Honor as really THE ethics code in Scientology.

    The betrayal of friends, the fear of losing friends and family and the heartbreak of lost loved ones involved in current Scientology “ethics handlings” is indeed shocking and deplorable. Adding to this nightmare is the fear of losing one’s living and ability to survive financially after being driven into financial distress by the church.

    The dramatizations involved no doubt go back a LOOOOOONG time. But I couldn’t help but be reminded of more recent history – the 1950s – “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?” – and the whole “naming of names” requirement to keep one’s job and at the same time losing one’s self-respect and honor.

    I’ll just add Marty that the “death issue” does need to be addressed at some time. Besides the fact that friends bring it up to me in conversation, I have lost a few very dear and loved friends who were OTs to cancer.

  255. No surprise Rachel.

    They were probably bonded and briefed by OSA before your arrival as well.

    *Subversive* is right!

  256. WindWalker


    OK. But here is another little tidbit that I think bears consideration, under the definition of THETA, from the Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary.

    3. THETA is thought, an energy of its own universe analogous to energy in the physical universe but only occasionally paralleling electromagnetic-gravitic laws. The three primary components of THETA are affinity, reality, and communication. (SOS, Bk. 2. p. 3)

    So… I feel that one can actually “have it”. I have experienced this for myself. “Having it” might be a reflection on a beings ability to bestow it or create it, but it can be tangibly present in a beings vicinity and even seems to have characteristics peculiar to the being, in some cases.


  257. For reference (from the admin dictionary defn 1 of 5):
    1. the competence of a person is in direct ratio to his degree of consciousness and their awareness (now I’m talking about the eyeball) of their environment. Competence is directly proportional to those two things. So don’t expect a half knocked out druggy to be very competent. He won’t be. Now similarly the insane are all degrees of competence. There have been some of the most brilliant geniuses who are utterly screamingly insane. There have been some of the dumbest boobs that were utterly screamingly insane. It has nothing to do with it. It’s not on the same scale. We’re dealing now with the scale of aberration as the scale of competence. The number of out-points the guy is carrying around in his skull is how aberrated he is. It has very little to do with his sanity, it has everything to do with his competence. How conscious he is and his width of awareness (can he see?) is what demonstrates his competence. (ESTO 10, 7203CO5 SO 11)

  258. It’s dead.

    You know who and his coterie killed it………….

  259. Steve,
    We have not “spoken” before, but I wanted to tell you this comment caught my attention.
    It is a very different take on the scene for those wanting to get self corrected and straight after an extended period “in” the church. Well done on your analysis. This indicates to me as a viable way out where the Doubt formula never really did. As a classed auditor who looked at the GAT evolution, then turned to my wife and said “that’s not going to fly” and then watched as every single opinion leader (of mine) in the tech field was systematically blown off the lines, the way forward has always looked fairly murky. How do I get my nose clean and regain my former love & enthusiasm for auditing after repeated heavy (out-tech) ethics in the early 80s (regarding auditing specifically) rendered me ineffectual as an auditor.
    Thank You for spending the time to gain the objectivity needed to write this.
    I would definitely like to discuss this further with you sometime soon – maybe in July ? 🙂

  260. For the most part they are copy & paste jobs from, a BOTWO site that emails its subscribers a weekly tip (loosely based on an LRH quote or two).

  261. Marty,

    Yes I see your point but despite what the lil’ rodent wants us to think (and as I said before I never gave much credence to what he said even when I was in) is the fact that the Advanced Course materials do indeed have the power to overwhelm people and this isn’t coming from David Miscavige but from the Ol’man himself in such issues as the HCOPLs Security of Levels and Enrollment in Suppressive Groups of which I’ll include the current “Church of Scientology”.

    I have experienced this factor personally myself.

    I’m also not disputing “Auditor and the Mind’s Protection” here either because it is a simple matter to locate and indicate the BPC.

    Just like it is a simple matter to correct an out list by finding the correct item.


    In fact I suggested as much to RTC once and you might have received the report that instead of making people wrong for incautiously restimulating themselves by reading the confidential material on the internet that we train field auditors in handling any BPC that was stirred up instead.

    Yet instead of doing this simple action the powers that be decided to invent that ridiculously useless “filter” we started calling Scienositter and throw anyone who ventured onto the internet into ethics.

    In other words devise a means of *mind control* instead of handle the BPC.

  262. Not according to the HCOPL “Second Dynamic Rules”.

  263. Cowboy Poet

    “Standard Operating Miscavige Procedure (STOMP)”
    First time I’ve ever heard that one–I like it!

  264. Well said, Windwalker.
    Go Canucks.
    (Yes, I am from Vancouver too.)

  265. Beautifully expressed, Les. Thank you for writing that.

  266. That sounds right.

  267. The higher percentage of smoking among Scientologists should also be kept in mind.

  268. Watchful Navigator

    Still hoping to see someone come forward with the two cancer references spoken of here. (I remember an old-timer having the quote from a lecture about the “out-of-control 2nd dynamic” aspect of cancer growth.)

    But here is a fair-use quote from the covertly-retired (and no doubt bonfired in some places) “All About Radiation” book, on which we once again find DM’s totalitarian regime in high Treason against humanity since the Northern hemisphere is being showered by Fukushima radiation for the next several years at least (additional note to Scientologists from the same book and ’57 lectures, that I hope calms things a bit, in case you haven’t seen this: “THE GREATEST DANGER OF RADIATION IS NOT SMALL INVISIBLE PARTICLES DRIFTING THROUGH THE AIR, BUT THE HYSTERIA OCCASIONED BY THE PROPAGANDA, THE MISUNDERSTANDING AND THREAT WHICH ACCOMPANIES IT”).
    “Cancer merely says, ‘We cannot go on. Procreation from here on is impossible on a cellular level.’ The cells feel that they can no longer procreate and instead of procreating in co-operation with the body the cells simply procreate in a wild and abandoned manner in some other direction. In other words, the cells are driven into an independent action or reaction in the lines of growth.
    “That is one type of cancer. The other basic type is simply erosive, corrosive, death of tissue, malignancy. Both are associated with ‘no future’ as a mental reaction.”
    -end quote-
    Actually, now that I look at it, it seems to fit at least the “out-of-control-2D” aspect of cancer.

    And might I point out, that SUPPRESSION is bound to create effects in a being’s universe that can include “an urge to succumb”.

    By the way, I’ve seen here before, some posting here about Scn’ists and staff sent to Mexico for alternative cure and “not making it”. While true, the posters then went on to assert the real “why” or at least the “bad thing”, was “seeking to avoid standard medical practice”. Unfortunately, this ignores the very much more real to me aspect that Marty underscores above – the PTSness under a suppressive regime, unhandled in all these cases.

    But even worse, this tends to drive the unwitting back into one of the most dangerous, ineffective and poisonous practices in modern medicine: Chemotherapy.

    I know, someone is going to froth over the few exceptions. But chemotherapy is no better on cancer than electric shock on the “mentally ill” (“we poisoned the patient to kill cancer cells” – and destroy his/her health). The survival rates under chemotherapy are pathetic – far worse than alternative attempts to beat it – and tons more expensive (they get some people to pay up to a $1000 per dose for their own self-destruction). I have a loved one who beat cancer under chemotherapy (after finally refusing it, back when that was even possible), who was also under suppression and not even being a Scn’ist, spotted and handled this and only then got better in his/her own words, so I feel I have a right to comment on this.

    Cancer is being beaten by many with cellular oxygen-boosting (peroxides, baking soda) concentrated, fresh enzyme intake, and other natural cures. But what can one expect in either case, if they can’t be persuaded to distance themselves from an evil, abusive regime? – one continually suppressing the being by crushing underfoot their own failed, deep-to-the-core, spiritual purposes and aspirations, along with abusive, inhuman treatment?

    This is what it means to be a V-VIII pre-OT under the MisSavage administration. (Hell, I never had a real, vicious and destructive succumb postulate even flicker on my screen this entire wild, roller-coastered lifetime, until I experienced post-2000 Miscavology in all its ugly reality, run on staff, so I have a vague idea of what that “driven to succumb” state might be like…)

    And finally, these stats don’t lie:

    Evil takes a bit of confronting. Chemotherapy kills.

  269. Sapere Aude


  270. It’s like the chicken and the egg Oracle.

    Which came first out tech or out ethics?

    Actually according to the Class VIII materials out tech comes first since before you have out ethics you get no gain.

    Sure you go ethics tech then admin according to the Esto Series etc but from a purely technical point of view of which I have.

    Allowing the tech to go out is what contributes to all the later evils and this is what the coup did which as Ron says in the bulletin by the same title is an act of *treason*.

    Mithoff for example didn’t stand his ground as the Senior Tech Terminal and say I’ll be damned if you are going to allow a bunch a squirrelly drills that are completely off policy and out tech see the light of day in any course room or anyone “trained” in these abominations near a PC.

    Instead he said yasa boss and implemented the Golden Age of Squirreling or GAS for short.

    In other words caved in.

    I’m not saying that Ray deserves to be in the hole but the guy should of shown a bit more backbone than he did.

    The least he could have done was write a Job Endangerment Chit or Queried the Order.

    At least if he was removed from post by the lil’ tyrant he’d have been on record as against them.

    As far as I know he took neither action.

    He just “complied” to an *illegal* order.

    Now it might have been his out ethics that started all of this but it was the out tech that was being perpetrated that in my opinion precipitated the whole ugly scene that followed and continues today.

    The natural consequence of failing to hold his location in space and probably the reason that he and the rest of management have been bypassed by an insane psychopathic lunatic.

    As far as I’m concerned following an illegal order makes the person following it as guilty as the person as the person who ordered it and Ron agrees in the policy by the name ‘Orders Illegal and Cross’.

    And in my opinion the reason why they are in the hole and the lil’ squirrel or rabid rodent isn’t is because they at least have a conscience and the Mr. road kill doesn’t.

  271. Robert Earle


  272. Thank you Steve.
    NOW I got it.

  273. Davey Miscavige?

    Is that you? 🙄

  274. Whoever you are I’d like to know why you introduced yourself as Henri and then signed off as Dr Bob Edwards and then you say you’ve never visited this site before and yet you find it getting weirder and weirder. Then as this brand new person to Scientology, you use the term-severe reality adjustment.
    Don’t mind me, just doing a little exercise in data analysis.

  275. “I’m here to tell you, if you are “in” working to “go free” on other’s peoples suffering, it will Never happen! I would put my Declared Ass up against any one of those guys any day of the week.”

    Well said Laura … makes me wonder about the OT FSMs/Ambassadors who coerced public & staff to take out heavy mortgages some illegal, coercing others in increasing & maxing out credit cards, collecting double commissions GBSing accounts, regging others for almost anything other than getting them on the next step on the bridge, getting wealthier parishioners to lend money to others who then couldn’t pay, … and the list goes on and on and on.

    Now, the methods used pit former friends against each other, husbands & wives against others, ex-staff against people they worked with for decades, and cutting comm lines to both family, friends and business co-workers.

    These guys are not even close to the concept of OT.

    And to think at one point there was ARC.

  276. Scott Campbell

    Dr. Bob,

    Your theme song:

  277. Rory Medford

    Yeah DM has everyone or just about everyone in the fold believing his way or the highway.

    DM has single handedly ruined SCN beyond recognition and he is the KING of SQUIRRELS!!!

    DM and his gang has perverted SCN to such a degree he should call it something else.

    Anyone recommend a good name change from SCN?

  278. Hey, on the Doubt Formula- anyone who’s done conditions in the Church, did you do it as “deciding between two groups”?

    I think I had a major MU here. Maybe it wasnt just me because I’ve worked with a lot of EO’s /MAA’s and the concept I always got was that one is deciding between two groups. For example- Scientology group that is saving the world or the bowling league. Be a musician or be on staff. Be a wog or be a Scientologist etc.

    But I just noticed it doesnt say that at all. It says ..“When one cannot make up ones mind as to an individual, a group, org or project, a condition of Doubt exists”

    Also, step 4: Evaluate onseself or one’s own group, project or org as to intentions and ojectives.

    Evaluate oneself. How come I never really noticed that oneself part. I did not know that was an option.

    So I don’t really have to leave the Church and join another group. I can just leave. That just sort of simplifies it. One can then examine the group he has doubt about, and not have to compare two groups, one of which he may not have doubt about.

  279. The “Church”knows one thing. It does not want Bi-polar or Shizophrenic people to join because of the risk of suïcide, That is the only thing it’s got right.

    “Episodes of abnormality are associated with distress and disruption and an elevated risk of suicide”

  280. Scott Campbell

    Bingo Jimmy.

    Concise and nicely stated.

    Indeed, “The MEST being, with ‘OT Powers’” does not and by definition cannot exist.

  281. Thanks to all for speaking up. I was not sure what kind of effect this little post would create. My tentative introductions to the subject have met with mixed responses. However, in the last two years I have been almost haunted by the random realizations that my own actions seemed to be paralleling the a to e steps. It was difficult to sort out because the Church of Treachery creates a problem by labeling us “suppressive.” But in this case, the solution to the problem, was the problem itself.

    The suppression was not in being antipathetic to David Miscavige and his “command intention.” The suppression was in not being antipathetic enough!

    We, as a group, are guilty of failing to attack DM, expose the conspiracy and warn others of the danger sooner. That’s all. It’s 180 degrees reverse.

    The subject was hard to sort out because just entertaining the idea seemed dangerously close to validating what the Church of Treachery has said all along — that we are suppressive. Finally, on May 14th, I finally broke through and could see so many things more clearly. Why do some people leave the Church and condemn the tech? Why do some people remain quiet or sit on the fence? Why have some people been effective at exposing the beast and others not? What can people do? What should people do? Is there any road map? Is there some LRH tech we can apply to get us out of this mess?

    I think steps a to e give us a datum of comparable magnitude by which to evaluate many elements of this situation we have not previously been able to understand. It gives us a road map by which we can successfully navigate our way out of the maze.

    When I joined the Sea Org in 1984, LRH was still alive. SO members could have children. There were no “international” events. Things weren’t perfect, but they were far from what we have today. But the cancer was already growing and it was malignant. In the end, I realized what was going on and left, but not before getting spattered with blood. And that is a stain that won’t wash off.

    Anyway, I have watched myself through the past two years, following my intuition. Selection routes and taking actions that I knew were right. And I’ve steadily watched others take similar actions. And as I said, the idea has continued to dawn that somehow we were following those steps a to e. But not in the way the Church of Treachery demanded, for that would just take us back into slavery.

    Thanks for letting me test the waters. More to come soon. 🙂

  282. 10 YEARS ?????!!!!!!
    10 years with no day off, no connection and free speech to family and friends, no power of choice where to go, to whom to talk to (no music, no books, deprived of all havingness- when I understood it right).
    10 years of other-determinism??? This is nuts!!! And evil!!! How much must one hate human beings to let this happen. How robotic can one get to contribute to this. Or do I miss something here???
    What´s the product of this??? Slaves???Zombies??? Robots???

  283. Scott Campbell

    “Jealousy comes about because of the insecurity of the jealous person and the jealousy may or may not have foundation. This person is afraid of hidden communication lines and will do anything to try to uncover them.” — L. Ron Hubbard

  284. Looks like this whole Rory thing and William Johnson thing is just a feeble attempt to divert or at least dilute honest discussion of Marty’s honest data that is presented here. This is one hell of a topic Marty has brought forth for public view. It sure makes sense to me why such a topic with evidence scares the hell out of David Miscavige.

  285. theystolemychurch

    How many are there in there? Seems you have “friends” with you!

    You are getting much sleep, are you?

  286. Well, Michael was using the OnceUponATime moniker before …hmmm


  287. We could call it the Church of the Golden Age in reference to Crowley the Golden Dawn but probably more apropro to acknowledge David Miscavige total perversion of the tech beyond pornographic extremes I think the Church of the Golden Shower is most appropiate 🙂

  288. Eric,
    this is beautiful, as is “WindWalker”.
    Few words, but communicating it all.
    I am glad you ARE and you are here.
    And I really like your comm.


  289. Michael Fairman

    Hey OnceUponaTime, Dr. Bob “Henri” Edwards

    This is a wonderful, spot-on monologue for an actor auditioning to play the lead in the inevitable bio-pic, “The Rise and Fall of David Miscavige”.
    Would I were 30 years younger! OMG! What is wrong with me? TC would nail this — blow everyone else away.

  290. I see what you mean but once fully at cause, who cares about a life line? However, I don’t think it will be soon as there’re 8 Dynamics to go.

  291. Unfortunately, Marty, an all too familiar story, similar, but not identical to what happened to my family. Luckily, no one died but it could have easily gone in that direction. FLAG is no longer, if it ever was, “the friendliest place on earth”. It is one of the most insidiously EVIL places I have ever had the misfortune to be connected to.

  292. True, auditing gives huge wins and tremendous relieve and you need auditing to conquer the bank, there’s no overestimation there but assigning cause over to the Church is a big mistake.

    So indeed their overestimation of the Church as authority to deliver keeps them at effect. They rate (potential) auditing from the Church (or Church related friends and income) over their integrity which is the basic reason for their sorry state.

    They wouldn’t do so if they were actual auditors and decided from a cause point (auditing while not-issing your SP is a crime). However, the only ones left are either bots abiding by BDOT’s, untrained pc’s or black mailed victims and none of that includes causativeness or auditor beingness.

    They are at continuous risk for their lives as they’re out list and their vectors have been redirected 180 degrees.

  293. To be honest, I have never had gains invalidated. Mostly all the other obnoxious and nauseating “Get you to …” “We want all your money …” stuff when you just want them fuck off really. But then their modus operandi is that everyone needs to be harassed ceaselessly in order to be made “Responsible”.

    Seems the main responsibility the ‘Top” takes is in making others being “responsible”. Considering FSM’ing is dead in the water with greed-driven events (Something you don’t want your Wog Friends to know about, or subsequently have egg running down your face after they usually blow them), last thing one needs is to be given Targets that “have” to be met before going into session. In this fashion the focus of your sessions can be sabotaged with the agendas of Stat Pushers.

    Its my firm conviction for the most part unwarranted Sec Checks merely serve the organization, which you always get to pay for.

    So, more baloney along that line rather than invals of gains.

  294. Eric – beautiful poem.
    It is a powerful statement of freedom to stand up and state your name.
    A quote From Arthur Miller’s ‘The Crucible’ in your honor – where John Proctor refuses to sign a confession of witchcraft and give up the names of his friends:
    ‘PROCTOR, (with a cry of his whole soul): Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet of them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; leave me my name!

  295. Dearest sudden palm tree
    Every word spoken a work of art in it’s truthful simplicity. Thank you for sharing your story.
    Bringing red lipstick for the 4th? 😉

  296. Or to borrow from our Bhuddist friends:
    “Words have the power to both destroy and heal.
    When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.”
    – Gautama Buddha

  297. Another thought struck me (because this opened a can of worms).
    At Flag if an OT has a problem the ‘solution’ is always to go in session and ‘audit it out’.
    Life is there to be lived and OTs need to get out and confront life and be in communication with it if they wish to actually BE an OT.
    Hiding away in an auditing room to ‘audit out’ life is akin to telling a person to stop living and a certain way to destroy OT abilities.
    Another discovery made in the Indie Zone 🙂

  298. Oh – oops. I missed that when I replied to your earlier comment. Nix the disagreement I expressed. I’m witcha!

  299. Haha!!! Genius. 🙂

  300. The simplest answer to that is contained in RJ67
    “…an OT cannot be an OT in a world which is insane or a universe which is mad.”
    – L Ron Hubbard – RJ67
    the world of an OT inside the C of $ is insane.

  301. Aylesbury Wolf

    Try Miscavology.

  302. Ideal Morgue

    No offense, but find your MU RJ. Adultery would fall under this type of “Suppressive Act”, specifically:


  303. You really got a way to detail the effects there Joe.

    v — beautiful as usual. rich in visual imagery, an excess in emotions.


  304. Marty and all the rest who posted thus far.

    Wow. OMFG. (That’s the best ack I got. It ain’t appropriate.)

    I am overcome with emotions on this live demonstration of what happens when Act One drops out and what happens when it’s put back in.
    Here, it is not separate from, and is likely a consequence of, the dropping of one’s Code of Honor and Personal Integrity.

    Bruce Pratt

  305. Who said anything about “bipolar disorder”? The man is, by observation alone, addicted to drugs. The clip above shows the characteristics of a Drug Personality to a tee. So what kind of a-hole would dare to suggest he has “bipolar” before he is even clean. Arrggh! It makes me so angry!

    1. Substance abuse in first-episode bipolar 1 disorder. Baethge, C. American Journal of Psychiatry 162 (2005):1008-10.

    2. Association between illicit drug and alcohol use and first manic episode. Frank, E. Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior 86 (2007):395-400.

    3.The effects of antecedent substance abuse on the development of first-episode psychotic mania. Strakowski, S. Journal of Psychiatric Research 30 (1996):59-68.

    4. Overdiagnosis of bipolar disorder among substance use disorder inpatients with mood instability. Goldberg, J. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 69 (2008):1751-7.

  306. Marty – another great, spot on post. Corporate Scientology will do anything and everything to keep you in line. Its only purpose is to perpetuate whatever DM wants. Since it tries to solve problems from that viewpoint it never arrives at the correct solution. No wonder the orgs are in a tail spin ! No wonder the Scientology field is shrinking!

  307. Watchful Navigator


  308. Michael Fairman,

    So many “Michaels” so little time.

    In a contest of acting between you and Tom?

    I remember being severely disaffected with Scientology and cringing every time you appeared in a commercial.

    Now there’s a guy who embodies the concept of ‘Clear’, I’d think. Damn him, anyways. You were just too fucking good.

    Each of us has a distinct quality. For actors, that quality underlies all they do, regardless of their skill and craft.

    Though Tom has a great deal of presence and talent, and though he sells a lot of tickets, I’m far more impressed with your quality and talent. Far more.

    It’s the difference between a gourmet confection and a gourmet meal: both taste good, but the meal offers actual sustenance.

    As for Tom blowing people away in this role, I wonder if he realized he was spoofing DM in “Tropic Thunder.” Very, very funny. (The truth trying to emerge?)


  309. “Evaluate oneself. How come I never really noticed that oneself part. I did not know that was an option. ”

    Likely because the E/O or MAA at the time was strictly interested in the 3rd Dynamic viewpoint where the group (staff/S.O./Scientologists) was number One, and you as an individual – nothing.

    This concept of ‘3rd Dynamic only’ quite often gave one the idea that you could not be an individual self-determined Scientologist at the same time as being on staff or even a public. I guess someone forgot that little gradient of pan-determinism above that.

    Ethics/justice handlings really were perverted more & more over the years – they went from being a help flow to raise an individuals responsibility and help one through a rough patch, to being used as punishment and to degrade one for their ‘crimes’.

    I can only expect those being routed to the MAA in the last few years cringe at the thought – they KNOW they are going to get slammed in some fashion.

    On top of that, you have untrained or poorly trained E/Os and MAAs, some who have been operating like this for years now … they have forgotten the basic goodness of individuals (no matter in what condition), granting of beingness, and the overall goal of this game. Hell, I remember the MAA Koz from Flag calling me up to say my ex and her – the MAA (who was down for L’s review – she had come home a basket-case) had just figured me as the SP in her life – this was after paying over $30,000 for the 1st round of L’s, countless hours of FPRD, and another chunk of change for review … go figure.

    Ethics/Justice was never meant this way.

    On the other hand, I’m rich in experience.

  310. TheWidowDenk

    Thoughtful —

    I believe you could better call your article, “Recipe for cancer,” the following:

    “Recipe for Disaster.”

    The use of a single physical condition, cancer, automatically excludes any other condition, i.e. shooting one’s business partner. Yet the recipe you have come up with could just as well apply to that condition and quite a few others I can think of.

    I believe many who read this blog will be able to come up with a genuine disaster pending or a potential disaster now averted or an already-occurred disaster from which they are now recovering. The recipe reads just the same. It’s a matter of viewpoint and why not embrace as many viewpoints as possible with the recipe?

    And, not all disasters end in body death. Many who have experienced personal disaster have gone on to communicate.

    I particularly enjoy the “Antidote.” It rings true to me. Rachel

  311. I’ve been impresed with Marty’s willingness to allow obvious dissagreement with SCN to appear on HIS blog. It seems to generate serious thought on the subject of the day. I am a WOG troll with no love for thought control, thats why I’m here. Watching the cult fail, listining to the stories of thoses who left remindes me that freedom must be protected, from whoever is trying to take. If I dont care about your freedom, will you care for mine? Disagreement IS freedom. Mike

  312. So true, Sam

    I always loved that line where Ron mentions ‘rubbing elbows with all manner of men’ … to be held in a cloistered environment and not out communicating, experiencing & creating the universe is the exact opposite of OT.

  313. Excellent observation, IMHO, Steve.
    Got me thinking about some cogs I had toward the end of VII.
    Relates to how we go about dismanteling implanting activities without it recoiling on us this time around.

  314. “Sheen’s negative drug test suggests that addiction is unlikely to be his only problem.”

    Read more:

  315. I’ts Human Rights Abuse as well as an afront to the US constitution.

  316. Marty/Mike,
    Thanks for the nix 🙂

  317. I have to say that I fell for the generalization. But Quaks are Quaks.

    There well maybe many good things “New Age” has brought us

  318. William Johnson wrote: “Marty, Marty, Marty …”

    Let’s see, now where did I hear something like that before …?

    Oh yes: “Matt, Matt, MATT … you don’t know the history of …”

    Seems like quite a popular valence among the DMbots in the CoM.

  319. It’s sad that parents let their teens get into the Sea Org

  320. While I understand that out-2D can momentarily hamper a pc getting case gain, to label it as Suppressive seems excessive. Breaking the Auditors Code (no 28) is somewhat different than telling a husband & wife how their 2D should be … I expect that knowledge and awareness in this Dynamic increases as in any other.

    The HCOB that RJ references explains it:

    It has never been any part of my plans to regulate or attempt to regulate
    the private lives of individuals. Whenever this has occurred it has not
    resulted in any improved condition. All I have been interested in, so for
    as Scientology law was concerned, was in removing retarding elements or
    practices from the path of progress toward freedom. Man is aberrated.
    Otherwise we would not be here. He is hard to rescue as he has been
    carefully “trained” to do himself harm. I have no concern about the second
    dynamic activities of Scientologists save only where they bring suffering
    to others and so impede our forward progress. Therefore ALL FORMER RULES,
    place, any husband, wife or individual whose processing or training has
    been impeded or interrupted beyond any reasonable doubt by second dynamic
    activities on the part of staff or associates or their husband or wife may
    have recourse to the CHAPLAIN’S COURT, Division 6, of any Scientology
    organization, and any case heard, if it be proven beyond reasonable doubt
    that, without provocation, a person’s training or processing has been
    impeded by the irregular second dynamic actions of the defendant, a fine of
    not less than 1000 sterling or greater than 5000 sterling shall be
    awarded the plaintiff and until paid, the defendant shall have no further
    training or processing. This policy is non retroactive (occurrences before
    this date may not be tried). No Ethics order shall be issued by reason of
    second dynamic activities. All Ethics orders now in force relating to the
    second dynamic are cancelled. No staff member may be punished, transferred
    or dismissed because of second dynamic activities. No student or preclear
    may be suspended or dismissed because of second dynamic activities. Nothing
    in this policy letter lays aside our actual knowledge of the consequences
    of second dynamic overts against husbands and wives being processed or the
    degree to which training or processing can be impeded for someone because
    of another’s acts. We are also aware that those org staffs which are over
    active on the second dynamic seldom prosper.
    We also retain any and all technology relating to the second dynamic.
    One of Man’s primary areas of aberration is the second dynamic.
    Processing, not discipline, is the only thing which eradicates aberration
    of such depth.
    Copyright @ 1967 .
    by L. Ron Hubbard
    L. RON HUBBARD Founder.

  321. oops … sorry for the crappy copy & paste

  322. Tony DePhillips

    HI Michael,
    I can never resist when given the opportunity:

  323. The A to E steps applied back to the CoM … brilliant, Steve. Thank you. That so indicates as the right move.

  324. “I wonder if [TC] realized he was spoofing DM in “Tropic Thunder.””

    Michael, I thought that as well.

  325. Amen to the very important point you make about smoking. I don’t care how OT you are, if year in and year out, you engage in an activity that irritates, harms, poisons critical part(s) of your body, sooner or later you are going to pay a price.

    Smoking is a contra-survival activity, pure and simple. And a serious addiction to boot.

    Many have known for years that rampant smoking within the Scientology community was a ticking time bomb.

  326. Out tech? How about NO TECH. I didn’t see any staff one the bridge and the pts sp detection materials had been removed from all the basic training. They did not KNOW what PTS and SUPPRESSION was.

    Out tech, yes! It is out tech to have no tech.

    Ray Mithoff has issues. Mainly financial from what I know. He confessed to sending false reports to Hubbard so he could get cash bonus’ and was betting down on Eli Lilly stocks before the Church ran the Lilly attack for profit. My personal take is that he was misutilized. He should have been posted as dir of registration at Flag. What a waste.

  327. I have a feeling he wouldn’t get that post now. Someone would be afraid he might run off down the road if he had access to the front door at the Fort Harrison.

  328. Watchful Navigator

    Hey RJ, CD
    You might be interested in my comments (and LRH quotes) elsewhere on this page, about cancer and doctors. Arguing doctors vs. quacks in my opinion, bypasses the real Why.

    It’s also ironic to me, to see this stated so, since RJ’s above discussions on the real Why (suppression) are fascinating, intelligent and have been a great help in clarifying all this.

    In my opinion there is no Quack more quacked than a medical doctor trained with psychopharmeceutical money into completely ignoring common sense, real science, nutritional-based therapies. The suppression of knowledge of Vitamin D3 and its critical rope in preventing and curing, cancers, is one such example. And so, in or out of the MisSavage empire, I support any being’s fundamental right to reject such authoritarian-based mis-treatment.

    That said, I fully agree with LRH’s instruction to send for medical checks and tests, and utilize doctors “where only medical means will serve.” But also be careful to note where he points out the limitations and sounds important warnings.

    I’m also not saying that alternative therapies are all good and medicos all bad, but that the real underlying Why could be significant enough to make all that almost a moot point anyway.

    We live in an environment statistically almost designed to produce cancer! Just add a little suppression and it’s way too easy for a confused being to succumb. But that doesn’t mean we should blame those who eschew further destruction-disguised-as-help therapies in the form of expensive and destructive treatments that the doctors admit have little (less even than the 20% LRH says witchdoctors will cure!) chance of curing.

    Approaching cancer on a spirit-mind-body basis seems wise.

    Thus, “those awful quacks” or “should have seen a mainstream medical professional”, doesn’t really cut it. A great many non-Scientologists (even many doctors!) not only admit that they can’t do much of anything externally for a patient about cancer, but that it depends greatly on the person’s own struggle with it (i.e. spiritual factors, suppression and its relief).

    (I know, I realize you are talking in the main about people who refuse to get checked up and then when it’s too late, expect a miracle out of “alternative” therapies)

    But those alternative “quacks” you mention at least know that cancers observably thrive on radiation, toxicity, sugar, yeast, parasites, electromagnetic radiation, etc., and thus at least identify physical -causes- on which they can attempt to create effects. But the medico of today is not in the business of curing cancer, but rather in (often unwitting) collusion with the pharmeceuticals marketing chemo at up to $1000 per dose!

    “My hair fell out, I vomited so much I couldn’t go to work, and my immune system is in worse shape than an AIDS patient, but the doctor says the tumor is receding” (check back a few years later and they’re dead of another cancer or other immune-suppressed illness).

    The following are shockingly similar in their effect – widely “accepted” even though completely insane and utterly destructive:
    *Chemotherapy (poison the body and destroy its immune systems because it “seems to have some effect on tumor growth” – even though it’s killing the patient)
    *Electroshock “therapy” (wipe out the wiring connections to all memories in a person’s life – again, kill the patient with the cure)
    *6-month-checks mixing major rundowns for NOTs auditors (introvert, thwart progress, create financial barriers and otherwise squirrel-up in violation of LRH warnings, the majority upstat pcs doing well, because “we must put ethics in on these OTs” and “we must never again have the mutiny like we went through with those German pre-OTs” – or the host of justifications RTC and Flag personnel give to explain away the insanity DM has engineered to stop beings from going OT and to MAKE MONEY).

    All of the above strategies also depend on PTS, overwhelmed beings who surrender their self-determinism to “the authorities” and who all too tragically often…

    Sometimes evil has a level of fascinating diabolical genius worthy of some degree of admiration.

    To finish my point, and why I love reading RJ comments so much, I see a primary, common evil intention at work here on beings in this place and time. Nazi Psychiatry, Big Pharma, MK Ultra SMERSH and Corporate Scientology have a lot more in common than first meets the eye. (Whether actual connections exist between David MisSavage and SMERSH remains to be seen – sometimes such compounded evil operates as a random collusion of similar interests and not necessarily as a planned conspiracy of criminal minds).

    So RJ on your earlier comment re- DM controlling LRH’s Scientology -having an earlier beginning. This seems to me to be a first for this specific subject, place and time. The jury is still out that a deeper, darker operation is at work and he is simply their willing puppet. But it’s admittedly quite plausible. We can probably of course, acknowledge the way-earlier beginnings to be found in the psychs/priests and yes, …medical doctors. Reference Nazi Germany.

    And can I also add that the above discussions of NOTs, BDOTs, cancer, power of the tech, etc. is one of the most fascinating I’ve seen. It is truly wonderful to be at this opportunity to learn from all those mistakes in the past and to approach the OT levels and the state of OT with more knowledge and wisdom on it than beings have possibly ever had before.

    So Thanks Marty, RJ, CD, MsDenk, Erwin and everyone else contributing to this indescribably valuable discussion!

  329. Debbie needs to do steps A to E for supporting the destruction of the Church, for allowing thousands of Scientologists to walk unsuspecting into a trap which resulted in hundreds of dead Scientologists (rough estimate) over the past two decades, for failing to warn friends and staff of the impending danger she SAW and even experienced. She is now punishing herself by remaining in a suppressive group, and her continued support and condoning of DM conspiracy prevent case gain because such “support” as well as the silent act of condoning the destruction of Scientology by refusing to speak out is itself a continuous overt act. Her actions and those of her husband are indeed suicidal, and death of the body follows the death of the spirit. She has already crossed that threshold. How can anyone in such a trusted position betray so many people which indeed caused the death of many? What you do to the dynamics you do to yourself by extension, because an OT is the dynamics and per LRH, the dynamics ARE help. Debbie Cook is a dead being walking. Hopefully she will read this and come to her senses.

  330. martyrathbun09

    No, I mean the original by Stanley Kubrick.

  331. If you acieve this 😉 Scientology is just another mock-up

    At some point one is to eventually reach the state of Cleared Theta Clear, a spiritual state which Hubbard describes this way:

    “A thetan who is completely rehabilitated and can do everything a thetan should do, such as move MEST and control others from a distance, or create his own universe.”
    Independent creation of perception”
    In Scientology 8-8008, Hubbard states that Scientology training can make one aware of one’s ability to turn illusions into MEST reality, and that even a preclear is “capable of producing illusions sufficiently strong to be observable by others”.[11] Hubbard speaks of “rehabilitating” the preclear so that he “begins to recognize that his viewpoint is expanding and that he is becoming all-pervasive”, and then goes on to say:

    “He is above the level of energy, if one can use the term, on the same wavelength with all other beingness, a condition which does not permit differentiation. As he rehabilitates his abilities in independent creation, he can change this wavelength at will, and can go in or out of agreement with all other points of beingness. The matter of perceiving, then, becomes a matter entirely of self-choice”.[12]

  332. Watchful Navigator

    Moderator – please if you would, change the above “rope” to read “role” in paragraph 3 – thanks!

  333. Spectacular insight. Spectacular post. I just wrote to you about adding your name to the Indie 500 list.

  334. Thanks Rachel — yes, you are totally correct!

  335. Sapere Aude

  336. Watchful Navigator

    Let’s not forget that Ray Mithoff used his position and his access to intimate LRH folder data, to cave-in Mary Sue Hubbard in a cold, heartless manner, in order to win favor with David MisSavage and help him accomplish the complete takeover of the church.

    That story can be found in Marty’s video testimony and corroborated by other written accounts.

    That heartless bastard falsely led Mary Sue to believe that her husband Ron made no mention of her before his death and “didn’t care about her any more”. She broke down in tears and eventually under protest, after being pressured alone by a roomful of uniformed Sea Org Execs, signed away all of her rights to the administration of a subject she had a key role in creating.

    Before standing treasonously silent on the Golden Age of Squirreling, Ray Mithoff went on after that stabbing of LRH in the spiritual back, to participate in wrecking the release of “New OTVIII” and the resultant wrecking of “New OTVIII” cases which led to several deaths.

    As far as I am concerned he can stay right there in the hole. It’s the other folks there who don’t deserve it.

    On second thought, no one deserves it, let him out – he’ll be in a “hole” of his own making for a long, long time.

  337. I have hope for the family doctor
    I even have hope for new age doctors 😉
    “But those alternative “quacks” you mention at least know that cancers observably thrive on radiation, toxicity, sugar, yeast, parasites, electromagnetic radiation, etc., and thus at least identify physical -causes- on which they can attempt to create effects”

    Sometimes I think you all live in the wrong country.

    “Dutch doctors to test new breast cancer treatment”
    “Dutch doctors will try to administer a new treatment to breast cancer patients in December by using ultrasound heating to kill tumor cells, the world’s first attempt of its kind.”

    “Dutch doctors warn of dangers of overuse of antibiotics in farming”
    “Public health experts in the Netherlands are calling for an urgent reduction in the use of antibiotics in farming as evidence mounts of transmission of antimicrobial resistance to humans through the food chain.”

    “The Earliest Fetal Memory?”
    “In a study of 100 of pregnant women in the Netherlands, researchers say they found evidence that fetuses have short-term memory of sounds by the 30th week of pregnancy, and develop a long-term memory of sound after that.”

  338. Marty,
    Question: What is a “Fair-Use Quote?”

    I’ve noticed this phrase going around the web lately, over the last few weeks.
    Pardon my smart-alike humor, but either it’s LRH or it’s not. Either we can quote him, or we can’t.

    Am I missing something?
    Sorry… my bs-meter beeps a bit whenever I see stuff like this.
    Just checkin’.

  339. Passing a drug test does not necessarily mean the individual is “clean”. Even when off a drug, particularly if stopped abruptly, the individual can still exhibit symptoms to suggest otherwise. (Google “withdrawal syndrome”). But hey, let’s face it, I think we can both agree that we don’t know the guy and therefore can only speculate. “Armchair diagnoses” of mental illness rattles me, that’s all, particularly when someone recommends a drug (controversies aside) as something they “need”.

  340. Watchful Navigator

    CD – That’s really nice, that you live in a country where doctors can still be doctors and have an independent voice. All of the above that you mention are good examples of good doctoring.

    Unfortunately in the USA, big Pharma has dominated medical education to the point where very few voices of reason are allowed to emerge, and those almost never in the mainstream media. Of those few voices, none are educated in nutrition at med schools anymore, so they pick it up somewhere else.

    Don’t forget that in the USA it is still ILLEGAL to cure cancer. Sometimes it’s illegal to even mention you have a product that has anything to do with even assisting recovery from cancer.

    That said, I also don’t mean to generalize too greatly in my above comments. Psychs, priests, AMA-FDA doctors, RTC, etc., are all examples of suppressive groups gone awry and man being basically good, individual exceptions to their groupthink, overall tendencies to work evil, abound.

  341. Bozz my man. You’re not really missin’ a thang.

    It’s a term used to allow “limited” reproduction or copying of someone’s copyrighted text. LRH stuff is (or was) copyrighted. So this is some legal CYA.

    In some situations, you may make limited use of another’s copyrighted work without asking permission or infringing on the original copyright.


  342. Ditto!!!

  343. Hallelujah

  344. Hmmm anybody ran in to him lately ?

  345. Hallelujah

    Watchful Navigator — Really nice summation!

    I wish to add my 2 cents worth:

    Many of us are not trained doctors or health care specialists. We, thus, can only form opinions regarding health, and care and treatment of the body. Therefore, when needed, we visit the specialist of our choice for advice.

    Yet, most of us do believe the last statement of the Creed: “And we of the Church believe that the spirit can be saved and that the spirit alone may save or heal the body.”

    To me, this presents and concludes the matter in its ultimate simplicity.

    Try $2500 a pop for chemo in 2004! L, Rachel

  346. Actually Mithoff wasn’t a bad guy before he joined the power push against Mary Sue.

    I think that and other overts pushed him OOV.

    He became the IG Tech for a while and Jeff Walker took over as Snr C/S Int.

    That’s when he became as cold as hard chromed steel and had that psychotic killer stare Miscavige has.

    I agree that he and the others may not deserve the hole but he Guillame, Lyman, Norm, et al did contribute to the poor woman’s demise and opened the door to unworkable technology and the destruction of the Church.

    As I wrote earlier the only reason the rabid squirrel hasn’t joined them is because they at least have scruples and he doesn’t.

    Besides Miscavige is in his own personal hell already.

  347. Thetabuddy

    Thank you Free spirit I agree with you completely!
    When I was told I had to do the “Advance Program” basically CCRD again. I looked to myself ( my Code of Honor). I had stellar wins on my OT levels. Any trouble I had with any auditing was because it was non standard. My “solution” was not to resign or I would just blow until someone freaked out ( I got their attention) and did the standard thing. Yes, I was a BIG pain in the ass to those who would be non-standard but one is supposed to become more CAUSE . Digging my heels into the dirt and saying NO I will not just do what YOU say, what does LRH say is being CAUSE. And funny thing is that those staff that were “forced” to do it standardly were actually happy about it. Imagine that.

    After all that is the point of reference CAUSE. I think that sometimes people go up the bridge at effect “the solution to all my problems”, “if I just do this grade then I’ll feel better” instead of thinking about the tech as a TOOL. LRH has amazing tools BUT you have to assume a CAUSE viewpoint to use them. LRH says you have to BE OT to GO OT. Man ain’t that the truth!
    The folks in the Church of DM are being Effect. Sheeple is what Mike calls them. Very descriptive.

  348. Another Layer

    So inspiring! Thanks for your great announcement and this lovely poem!

  349. RJ — Guillaume was CO Europe and Ray Snr CS FSO (may not have even assumed that role yet — he may still have been in training) when Mary Sue was taken out. Neither of them were involved. Ray didnt become IG Tech until 1987, long after Mary Sue was relegated to house arrest. Guiullaume did not become ED Int until I brought him from EU to assume the post (it was my job to find a replacement for Kerry Gleeson and was run directly on this project by Annie). That was well after MSH had been removed. I also beg to differ that Ray Mithoff has ever been hard as cold chrome steel — he is soft as a wet noodle. He doesnt have a mean bone in his body — in fact I have sometimes wondered whether he HAS any bones in his body. I don’t know what you are basing your comment on about either of them?


    “1987, long after Mary Sue was relegated to house arrest.”

  351. He was very uppity. Hugely self important when visiting “lower orgs”. He was blatantly disgusted with everyone and everything was my experience. I recall thinking he clearly hadn’t had his ser facs handled. True Sea Org Royalty in every sense of the word. Sense of humor No. Sense of class Yes. He was an upper class thetan.

  352. WN,

    The point I was trying to make here was that it is *policy* to send a PC or Pre OT to a medical doctor if they are sick or injured.

    It is also part of the Auditors Code as well.

    True Ron does say some good things particularly about Nutritionalists in the HCOB on the ‘Current State of Scientology Materials’ and I’m not going to tar all alternative practitioners with the same brush.

    My point was there were a lot of leeches who hung around the Church who entertained what I could only sum up as squirrelly methods of therapy like for instance there is a “nutritionalist” who operates in the LA area who actually leaves her *victims* or patients as she calls them malnourished and unable to be audited because they are practically starved by being placed on some kind of gruel of some kind.

    This person should be correctly labeled as a *squirrel* yet she is tolerated because she is a big buck patron of the Church.

    Another one is uses a shock machine of some kind to shock the virus or bacteria which is supposed to kill them off.

    Yet really does nothing except key in electro shock engrams and whole track.

    Again same story big patron, big bucks etc.

    Then of course there are other sham shamans who hang around the Church like vultures waiting for the next victim to fall ill.

    The fact is that though it is true that MDs have become creatures of Big Pharma they are somewhat restrained by the Hippocratic Oath and most cases they work with the patient to at least alleviate the condition and are humble enough to ask for second opinion if they are stumped.

    As far as Doctors are concerned people like the late Gene Denk and Megan shields were god sends because they not only knew medicine but Dianetics and Scientology as well.

    And knew when they were up against something that was psycho somatic in origin.

    While these other “practitioners” don’t acknowledge that possibility or don’t care and will assign the ailment to one cause such as ominous “parasites” (I guess it takes one to know one) and use zappers or some inedible gruel to eliminate them.

    Despite any contraindications and any ineffectiveness of their so called “treatment”.

    As far as cancer is concerned.

    Yes this is the one point the medicos fall down on and it is because the AMA only recommends three methods to treat cancer and that is either by surgery, chemo or radiation.

    They consider it a desperate illness that requires desperate measures to handle.

    Yet there are people whose cancer has simply gone into remission by changing their environment, their diet or their associates.

    In some cases simply by auditing.

    I’ve known several cases whose cancer went into remission after a few sessions including one PC I simply word cleared in qual once who had advanced lung cancer that went into to complete remission confirmed by a doctor.

    However a lot of it has to do with the person themselves and if they are in succumb or have a succumb postulate then I don’t care what method of treatment you use you will not get a result because the person wants to die and is using cancer to effect their demise.

  353. Watchful Navigator

    Wow – really confused now. I’ll have to go back to the videos, stories and see if I can figure out who was what, and how I came to those same conclusions (that Guillaume and Ray was there, and that Ray as LRH’s last auditor was there helping convince Mary Sue to sign things over…)

  354. For the fallen Royalty:

  355. Mike,

    I am basing my opinion on second hand information and personal observation of course.

    Supposedly according to legend Mithoff was part of the team that went directly to Mary Sue’s place and threatened her into signing over her rights to the copyrights.

    If this is not true then I stand corrected.

    Also I never gave any time line to Ray’s rise to IG Tech and his eventual fall because I was there and it was actually mid 86 not 87 when he moved off the post to IG Tech and Jeff Walker took over as Snr C/S because I have a retread order somewhere in my cramming file to prove it.

    I also noticed that when Ray moved onto IG Tech he had cut his hair and assumed that psychotic “fixed dedicated” stare that everyone else had in the edition of KSW News had assumed.

    (Sorry Marty.

    Actually you seemed to have more ARC in that photo than both Ray and Greg combined)

    That photo pretty much assured me that Ray had gone to the dark side and had joined Darth Vader Miscavige on his crusade to “purify” the tech.

    You could say that even back then I didn’t have much trust in RTC and over time I’ve been totally proven right not to trust them or the spawn of evil Miscavige its titular “COB”.

  356. Watchful Navigator

    Guillaume was not around at that fateful meeting, true.

    Ray Mithoff certainly was. There are multiple accounts including the auditor who heard confessionals from some of those in attendance:
    and that Mithoff was LRH’s last auditor rings true since he is a signatory to the “last will” of 23 Jan 86:
    which is itself scandalous because LRH was supposedly signing this last will 3 days before his listed death and David Miscavige himself gets in on this one.

    Given what MisSavage has pulled off since, I have serious doubts about his actual role in all “those events”…

    “it was hoped that this covert form of Euthanasia would pass medically and legally as ‘Death from Natural causes’. Even RTC’s lawyers would approve it as a ‘faultless plan’.”

    No statute of limitations on Murder One.

    just sayin…

  357. Hey RJ — you are right not to have trusted RTC — it was better under Vicki Aznaran than under DM!
    No, Ray wasnt part of that visit to MSH — as I recall it was DM and Janadair Swanson (and possibly NFS and/or Mike Eldridge).
    All I can say about that photo of Ray having the cold chrome steel look is that makeup and photoshop can do wonders… Ray is a spineless jellyfish.

  358. Nobody deserves the hole. You are right about that. And as long as there are people who think other people “deserve” to be in holes, we will keep making holes to put people into.

  359. Well WN, there are a lot of “stories” that circulate, based on presumptions, guesses and plain old dub-in. Though I am not trying to be the blog police, every now and then I chime in to try to provide the historical facts about something that seems to have become “urban legend.” No, neither Ray nor Guillaume were there. Maybe you are thinking about the SFO Mission Holders Convention?

  360. WN — you have years of dropped out time. Ray was not there for the “resignation” of Mary Sue in 1981. He was certainly at the ranch with LRH as his last auditor in 1986. All the speculation about the will and LRH’s death is just that, and the conspiracy theories of “Murder One” are crap, pure and simple. Don’t go besmirching Dr. Denk with that garbage here. There is one of the less than half dozen who were there in theose final days and he posts on this blog. Please don’t spread this sensationalism here — there are other places to do so if you feel the need.

  361. Another Layer

    I agree with you, Marty!
    Before I read OTVIII Geir Isene’s Doubt (and from there, the Truth Rundown, and your and Steve’s blogs), although I felt that things weren’t right, I kept my eyes and thoughts shut because I didn’t want to complicate my eligibility for OT levels. And mind you, I was not even on the grades … LOL! But that OT eligibility/denial of eternity button started sometime in the early 80’s and kept bubbling just below the surface as a low-level, not quite perceptible, yet constant threat, until I finally jolted awake in mid-‘09. And I’m sure this is nothing compared to the pressures of RadScn.

  362. I am afraid you have succumb to some form of Radical Scientology

    “It’s your own fault you die of cancer”

    “However a lot of it has to do with the person themselves and if they are in succumb or have a succumb postulate then I don’t care what method of treatment you use you will not get a result because the person wants to die and is using cancer to effect their demise.”

  363. And for the Royalty still holding out: (DM)

  364. Another Layer

    Woops! I misspoke. “(and from there, the Truth Rundown …)” should read “(and before reading the Truth Rundown …)”

  365. Mike,


    Actually it was either Steve or Vicki who were our seniors over Red when I worked on the Squirrel Buster project along with other SO and Non SO auditors and C/Ses who were assigned to the project.

    I like Red he was a cool dude but I couldn’t bring myself to totally trust RTC just like I didn’t trust the GO even though I was assigned to audit their staff and handle any DPE cycles on them.

    Seems the only person I trusted back then was the Ol’man who pretty much defended me against the whole damn organization one time when I got into some real trouble after the new coup took over and tried to declare and expel my sorry ass.

    Also Sandy and I got along well when she was garrisoned at AO she was personal C/S while I worked in the case cracking unit.

    I have a funny story in relation to that if you’re interested.

    Anyways you could say I had and have trust issues and I especially didn’t trust any Scientology entity that wasn’t actually on the org board like the RTC or had their own “unique” way of doing things like the GO for example.

  366. Watchful Navigator

    MrRinder – Thank you.

    Got it on the dropped out time. Exactly. We are talking about two different events. This visit to Mary Sue in question was supposedly after the death of LRH.

    Here also is Jesse Prince’s account of that one:

    I didn’t even know that something had ever been insinuated on Dr. Denk, and I certainly did not mean to do so. What I understand is that Dr. Denk had been sent to Las Vegas during that time period. Which itself raises more questions as to who ordered it and why.

    The level of Vistaril found in the autopsy, the timing of LRH’s “last will” and its use to launch the trademark/copyright empire, the means and the motive present at that time, the Miscavige power grab and follow-up.

    Pierre’s article is composed by one who heard confessionals on at least a few of the players involved. I don’t think his resulting speculations are so far-fetched at all.

  367. Sigh… It seems strange to comment but the Scientology Culture has become who will retain his Royal status’, remain in favor with the King, and hold a place in court.
    Who will be kept in the tower and who might suffer a public execution or be sent into exile. No queens no heirs no jesters make court such a dull place to be. No more wizards or magic. Nothing exotic permitted (out qualed). No magic forest about the castle, only desert and Hemet.

    No benevolent King………

  368. “And we of the Church believe that the spirit can be saved and that the spirit alone may save or heal the body.”

    And if this spirit is wise it will go to the doctor on time

  369. Watchful Navigator

    RJ – Thanks for the clarification – we agree – and wow, you’ve got quite an experiential track in this.

    CD – it’s true there is way too much “blame the victim” and lack of compassion in Radical Scn. But I think RJ has a good point about the person’s disposition to get better, in that even in the general public it’s accepted that one’s “will to live/fight to live” has something to do with it.

    One solution might be (spirit-mind-body) to get the person away from Radical Scn and work with the person to help him uncover succumb postulates, letting him “have” items like “Flag” and “David Miscavige” and “RTC” as “suppressive” terminals (you could never, never say this in a Radical Scn session!) and other spiritual/mental assists while also addressing any physical factors that are known to contribute to the cancer (dietary, environmental).

    Because a lot of cancer survivors, like Suzanne Sommers recently, like my family member, report that they turned things around when they decided to take complete charge of the recovery on their own and studied the condition and made adjustments to diet, lifestyle, own attitudes, etc.

    You can’t do this very well when you know you have a technology that works and could help, but you’re prevented from using it. And everyone around you that you hope has the ability help you do something, is prevented from doing so because “you’ve got cancer and you’re not qualified to be at Flag” or similar Radical Scn blame-the-victim response. You’re right, in Radical Scn it’s “all your fault”.

  370. Radical Scientology?

    Next you’re going to tell me that someone who commits suicide wants to live!

    Get fricking real CD!

    Also you’re twisting and perverting my comment.

    I never at no time said it was their fault if they died of cancer.

    You are the one who put that straw man there.

    People decide to die all the time CD that’s why suicide rates are so high in your part of the world.

    Or maybe you hadn’t noticed.

    The way you handle it is by erasing the succumb postulate.

    Not pretend it doesn’t exist like you and radical or I won’t even give it the distinction of calling it Scientology *Squirreling* seem to be doing.

  371. Jesse Prince said he was there with Ray. See the Jesse Prince tapes / transcripts.

  372. Thank you for your post Veritas

  373. “Silence is betrayal”

  374. You are a Big Spirit Eric 😉

  375. I feel your empathy with those still in Dennis

  376. self-determinism


    ” No, you’ve got to me, because this gets frustrating. I told you exactly what happened. Raymond up and dropped the bomb on her that he didn’t care about her, she hung her head and just started signing whatever they stuck under her hand.”

  378. I knew Dan and Lynette when I lived in Chicago. We were very good friends for the year I lived there and shortly afterwards. I would do anything for Dan because I know he would do the same. Dan is the MAN and I know Rich has experienced this through an ass beating. I loved Dan and Lynette and this breaks my heart. Rich, God must have spent extra time on you.

  379. I agree Mike,

    Though there is evidence of Government infiltration and influence within the organization itself there is absolutely no evidence that the Ol’man was murdered or even abandoned to die as much of the *disinformation* on the Internet suggests.

    One of the major sources of that particular rumor was dearly departed RVY.

    Another one are those cats over at Sc-irs-ology and some members of the FZ who claim that Ron was somehow replaced with a ringer of some kind.

    While on the other hand claim that he was killed after amending Trust A.

    Talk about contrary facts!

    Come on which is it guys?

    You chide me for entertaining “conspiracy theories” (which by the way are not theories because they *are* documented to an extent) WN while falling for that load of horse pucky.

    Ron got tired of living in a body and accomplished what he wanted to accomplish so he dispensed with his mortal coil.

    If you want to find out where he went.

    Then read Scientology, A clear Procedure Again.

    Also read what Ron says about the Theta Body again.

  380. TheWidowDenk

    As far as Dr. Denk goes, he had read the Dianetics book and was well onto the beginning Bridge before he ever set foot on his medical doctor internship. In fact, by that time he started the internship, he had comp’d the TR’s course, HQS, HSDC, PRD, Class 0, 1 and 2 auditor training (not necessarily in that order) at Seattle Org.

  381. Thoughtful

    Thank you for the validation re. my post.
    When I started getting into it, it just all fell into place for me.

    The instant that you get the notion that it would be “safer” to not communicate, you can be certain that you have suppression on your lines.
    I am not saying that it is always wise to just blurt out everything to everybody, all the time. But I think that when one chooses to withhold communication for “safety concerns” one would do well to spot the source of the suppression and handle it accordingly.

    And yes. Great idea on the Indie 500 list. I’m “all over that one”.


  382. Orlando Furioso

    Hello Eric.
    Actually many compliments for your statement that I saw about an hour ago on the Italian blog.
    These words are very touching, RON bless you.
    ML by all the independent Italian

  383. Anyone looking for an auditor in the bay area could contact Marina at

  384. Erwin
    Yes, totally. But my operating goal is not Tone 40 or above, my operating goal is somewhere around 20. That is where LIFE really happens. Any further down from there and you are withdrawing toward becoming more MEST, less engaged in life. As you move up from there you are withdrawing towards more THETA, but less involved in the GAME OF LIFE.

    It is perhaps “The Great Middle Way” espoused by Sidartha Gautama.


  385. For falsely reporting to the Ol’man and playing footsie with SMERSH he should have been comm eved and replaced with a real C/S who applied *Standard Tech* which included being honest.

    I’m sure his stay in the hole is an effort at self flagellation just as Guillame’s is for perverting Ron’s personal com line SO #1.

    I’d be the last person to say they deserved what they got.

    But they made their bed or desk or whatever they sleep on these days.

    If any of them had a pair of balls between ’em they would have held an Executive Comm Ev on “Mr” David Miscavige who being in or is Dept 21 as he claims is still *under* the Executive Director.

  386. martyrathbun09

    So was I, which is a far sight more credible.

  387. WN — Good, glad that got sorted out. Pierre Ethier was nowhere near this scene, and if he purports to use information gained from confessionals to make hs speculations credible, then he shouldnt be calling himself an auditor (unless he intends to be the DM type “auditor”)

  388. Mike,

    I happen to know Pierre personally and I know that he would never violate the Auditors Code and use confessional data on his website.

    By the way I read the same article myself WN so I no idea where the data that Pierre used confessional came from because it wasn’t in there a few years back when I read it.

    Aside the fact that confessional data is the worst place to try and garner intel from unless you are looking for a who or trying to turn on an R/S.

    Other than that the data is worthless for any other purpose than black mail.

    See C/S series 91 ‘The New Grade Chart’ section on Grade II.

  389. Watchful Navigator

    RJ – I don’t recall “chiding” you but I did openly mull over that idea of yours that DM has “backing” somewhere. It actually rings true for me most of the time. I love your posts – they do lay out a compelling pattern – and hope you don’t feel too “chided”.

    Re-listened to all Marty’s Tampa Bay videos – nothing there on this – sorry – my own dub-in earlier.

    Myself, I’ve got nothing vested in this either way, but I sure harbor questions and doubts.

    All of the responses here have been educational. It’s been helpful to get pointed out sources of some of the rumors. This is probably not a topic to do much with here and now. Perhaps a Truth Commission someday will put it all to rest.

    Don’t expect meanwhile, that people don’t continue speculating on the numerous outpoints. I get awful upset, as I am sure others have for all these years, about having lost our founder and his guidance. At all the changes and attacks on the legacy. At the bullshit shore stories to back off all further inquiry.

    This and related blogs have been a great help in getting more and more truth to re-orient on.

    I can’t wait for Marty’s book he’s mentioned working on, re DM destroying LRH’s family and legacy.

  390. Can’t wait to read the book!

  391. Newly out

    Wow…Another Vancouverite on the blog. How cool is that?


  392. Wow. This is major news. And I have to say, of all the surprising news I ever heard in this arena, this tops the list . I thought I had issues but, this guy has really out created me!

  393. Oracle,

    Jesse is basically a good guy but he has a tendency to hyperbole at times just like RVY.

    Personally I think there were a lot of other factors involved in Mary Sue’s abdication than just that one incident.

    She had been through hell.

    Her eldest son had died followed by a good friend of hers the following year and my opinion she was railroaded into Federal Prison based on the FBI’s own conspiracy theories based on the testimony of that rat bastard Miesner and now her husband who she loved dearly had just died.

    What upset me was that no one ran out the secondary like you do with someone who has had a recent loss.

    If you are a real Scientologist.

    Instead they basically terrorized the poor woman after she just returned from the hospital from being diagnosed with lung cancer.

    Not only that.

    They had several cards they were holding as well.

    Diana, Arthur and Suzette who were all Sea Org members.

    I’m sure the hybrid Squirrel/Mole Miscavige insinuated or implied that he could make their lives more difficult.

    As far as I know from personal knowledge and experience he had pretty much declared open season on the Hubbard family who were all members of the International Council.

    Aside from that he had a visceral hatred of Mary Sue probably because she missed his withholds.

    Not to mention the fact that Mary Sue represented his opterm Control as the Controller since he was an Agent of Chaos.

    I wouldn’t doubt that the little rodent practically went into convulsions around her trying to suppress his LIST 1 R/S.

  394. Orlando

    Wow. On the Italian blog. Now how cool is that?
    When I was wee lad I did some traveling in northern Italy. It was a fantastic experience.

    Good to hear from “the Italians”. You guys Rock! Keep up the good work!


  395. Watchful Navigator

    I don’t actually know if Pierre based his write-up on confessional data, or not. If so, he certainly didn’t compromise any one person’s confidentiality. I appreciate having his write-up. It put to rest a ton of extraneous conspiracy ramblings for me. And I don’t think he laid out those points that he did in his write-up, lightly.

  396. Robert Earle

    As a point regarding this topic. While it may not be generally known unless you have read the LRH policies having to do with reissuing policies.(OEC vol 7) It is LRH policy that when reissuing an LRH policy letter if some part (a rule or policy) of it has been changed in a later LRH policy letter then in the reissue if the earlier one the parts which have been changed or deleted are to be changed or deleted in the reissue.
    For example, in the above case the crime refered to by Ideal Morgue is I believe first listed in the 7 Mar 65 PL. Obviously the reference by Dennis is 1967.(later) therefore in any reissue of the 7mar pl that crime would not be there. Unfortunately this rule has been neglected in reissed PLs at times. The issue on students guide to acceptable behavior is also in this same catagory as having been reissued later than the Second Dynamics Rules but not properly updated on the same point. There are other examples but I will leave it here for now. Bob Earle OEC grad/also a former LRHcomm

  397. TheWidowDenk

    Good grief! My comment looks totally out of context. How did that happen?

    Anyway, it is a response to RJ and the comment up the queue:

    “As far as Doctors are concerned people like the late Gene Denk and Megan shields were god sends because they not only knew medicine but Dianetics and Scientology as well.

    And knew when they were up against something that was psycho somatic in origin.”

    I’ll try to do better next time! Rachel

  398. Robert Earle

    Sorry for the several typos in my above. I might add that this above rule regarding reissue of LRH issues is very important to know when trying to sort out apparent conflict of policy and requires a carefull study of the dates as well as who reissued and why . Very well illustrated in the Article “3D ENGRAM” on Steve’s site.
    in which DM pulls this same thing.

  399. I’m likin’ this Les. Nicely put.

  400. RJ, Just providing the source to the “Ray on Mary Sue” story. I didn’t say I endorsed it. I would trust Marty’s accounts above anyone else’s.

  401. Another Layer

    What a great point! One of those little caption bubbles of extraneous concepts that I had read into the Doubt formula just popped. Blip! Gone! Very cool.

  402. Rachel,

    No fear I totally got what you said.

    It was just finding a place on that long comment thread to say that 🙂

  403. Understood WN.

    There definitely is some kind of dark conspiracy regarding WordPress and their lack of reply buttons on any lengthy comment thread 🙂

    There’s an interesting article Ron wrote called “Cultural Destruction” that could explain Miscavige which I’ll link to here:

    All I can say is no auditor has ever gotten close enough to Miscavige to find who he really is working for.

    I’m sure a Form 7A or a Joburg would be an interesting adventure 😉

    If you could get his hands off those copper rods of his.

    Anyway who he is working for can be left to speculation.

    What he is doing is blatantly obvious which is destroying the organization.

    If he isn’t actually working for the enemy he is definitely achieving their fondest objectives.

    Who knows.

    Maybe some day under the FOIA we may find a 201 File for covert agent Dave under some digraph and cryptonym like FU/CKUP or something like that.

    But that’s neither here or there for now.

    Another thing that might have same a lot of heartache and grief probably would have been a postmortem or B of I of some kind before the grand restructuring or *coup* as I like to call it.

    Maybe some precognition mighta helped as well.

    Because I had no idea back then as I do now that we were marching ‘long the road to ultimate Squirreldom.

    All I can say is…oh well.

    At least we have the Tech.

    They can keep that squirrel group they call the “Church of Scientology”.

  404. Every time I see a rant about the “dangers” of smoking I think of the out point Ron discusses in Data Series 15 WRONG TARGET example 5.

    Read it Pub and listen to Question and Answer Period at Saint Hill early or late 62 I believe and take your smoke free nonsense some where else.


    “A Dutch team has succeeded in boosting chemotherapy dosage by combining MRI and ultrasound”

    EU-funded researchers continue the good fight against cancer. A Dutch team has succeeded in boosting chemotherapy dosage to tumours with the possibility of easing harmful side effects by combining magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and ultrasound. Their research is funded in part by the SONODRUGS (‘Image-controlled ultrasound-induced drug delivery’) project, which is backed with almost EUR 10.8 million under the Nanosciences, Nanotechnologies, Materials and new Production Technologies (NMP) Theme of the EU’s Seventh Framework Programme (FP7).

    Eindhoven University of Technology collaborated with Philips Electronics to create sophisticated technology with the potential to help patients in need. The team performed a demonstration of this technique for the first time ever in a preclinical, proof-of-concept study. “

  406. Tell that to all the woman getting breastcancer, children getting cancer, Man getting prostate cancer. All people getting lungcancer.

    Hubbard alsoo claimed smoking cured cancer.

    He a man bot God, he makde mistakes like you and I do.

  407. He is a man not God, he males mistakes like you and I

  408. Never cared for Blavasky’s Theosophy too much nor Robbins or any of the inspirational gurus but I thought Reich was pretty cool.

    Especially his treatise ‘The Mass Psychology of Fascism’ which I consider a classic *must read*.

    At least he wasn’t theaty weatie like many of the rest of them and called a spade a spade.

    Too bad the Nazis at the FDA killed the poor man after he had barely escaped the depredations of the Third Reich.

  409. Very insightful Thoughtful Steve.

    Your screen name is very appropiate 🙂

  410. Robert Earle

    “The suppression was not in being antipathetic to David Miscavige and his “command intention”. The suppression was not being antipathetic enough!” Oh how true. The first two paragraphs of my SP declare of 23 Jan 2000 read as follows.
    “Bob Earle of Denver, Colorado is hereby declared a suppressive person.
    On the 20th of July 1999 CLO WUS placed Bob under a Non-Entubulation Order. The Non-Enturbulation Order was issued after discovering that Bob had been spreading black PR and enemy lines regarding the Golden Age of Tech and the IG Network bulletin programs to other staff members in the Denver org.”
    Just to be clear on this. My actions which brought this about were primarily to refer other staff to actual LRH refs which were being violated by the above. I had also written uplines about this prior to this with either no response or “go to cramming” (on GAT,etc)response.
    Steve’s statement is very true my transgression was to fail to make my point stick.
    I know how right he is as there was an earlier time when I had done a very similar thing back in 78-79 regarding a collecton of BPLs which cut accross LRH issues. At that time I had also written up lines as well as refused to follow the cross policy of others. It had a similar effect in the org . I ended up removed from post by the AG then and then declared. A few months later all the BPLs were cancelled. also that AG was removed from post and with a Comm Ev on my declare and an amnesty I was back to ok. That time I made it stick with the help of others uplines. I have no regret on that cycle.
    Thanks for the insight Steve. Bob Earle

  411. For the “clever” OSA prying eyes, you guys would be much better off applying standard scientology while you also hold a proper job, pay your taxes, and abide by the law of the land, while also being a contributing member of the society you live in, and of course you’ll have to follow the existing moral codes, which aren’t too bad in your part of the world. Well, you know, it’s called Democracy. Don’t look for the word in the Tech or Admin Dictionary. It’s not there.

    Cruel, violent and corrupt dictatorships is something that cannot be tolerated by any decent society today and we happen to live in a decent society full of people who care about the welfare of other human beings and would not calculatedly, intentionally dismantle another person’s life in the name of completing a target or mission. But the good thing is that you DM OSA Inc. are a very small minority in the world. Well, thank goodness your boss is so small minded, and no offense guys but small minded people tend to collect small minded people and by natural law, your minority will not remain just a minority, it will shrink and eventually disappear because you are offering a fake and dangerous product to honest, well intentioned people seeking personal improvement, and if you guys are thinking business, forget it. History will show you that in business, whether you’re selling Scientology or tomatoes, the only thing that counts, that can keep a business alive and growing, apart from good honest management is CUSTOMER SATISFACTION. I mean, I say Miscavige is small minded because if he wasn’t , he wouldn’t have destroyed that which could have made him a great man and a hero, if he had kept LRH’s wishes in mind, making Scientology and Scientologists flourish and prosper, and he wouldn’t be having to spend parishioner’s money trying to defend himself against people who are only fighting for what is RIGHT. And what is RIGHT for the Scientologists around the world who KNOW LRH’s legacy,( many learned the Tech directly from the founder), is that, whether you understand it or not, such technology is so valuable to us and the Human Race (which you don’t seem to be part of) , that it should be clear to anyone calling him/herself a scientologist that it must be preserved without alterations. You see, out here we know EXACTLY what LRH’s Scientology and Dianetics is all about, have benefitted from it and can apply it and achieve wonderful results and obviously YOU DONT.
    Frankly, I don’t envy yout future….Selling fake Scientology and then milking and suppressing your customers when they complain about what you sold them? Yikes! Your days in the market are numbered :<

  412. Now we are in tandem on this point Erwin

    It’s almost impossible to overestimate the tech yet it is possible to overestimate the organizations potential or ability to deliver it.

    You are correct most of this overestimation comes from ignorance i.e. the person isn’t trained and has had no experience applying the tech to another person’s universe.

    (Did you know that on the original Solo Auditor’s course one had to at least fly ruds on another Pre OT?

    Now that is no longer required.

    Not only that but most aspiring Solo Auditors are disinformed that by doing the Solo Course you acquire the skills of a Class IV auditor since you do all the GAT drills for that level.)

    So not only are they ignorant but they pretend they know something they don’t because they’ve done a bunch of squirrelly drills.

    In this case it is an *overestimation* of their level of auditing skill.

    I guess training in general is this way when they are told that if they do the levels with these stupid and useless drills that they will end up being “perfect” auditors

    So I think the overestimation is mainly at the level of training.

    Nice way to set the Solo auditor or Auditor up for a loss.

  413. I got it Foremost,

    A yes the everyone wearing the hat of product officer syndrome.

    Yeah I know it well.

    That was about the time I decided to make my exit stage right from the whole miserable scene.

    It’s the inverted concept that the public are there to serve to staff.

  414. Today I got a Scientology Promo Mail. Think he has a solution for the above:
    I translate:
    The Rundown for Repair of Ethis and Justice.”

    More Sec Checks and Ethics?

  415. No offense but I suggest you *read* the PL I cited and handle your ser fac.

  416. Dear MR and MR,

    Recently I posted something and Karen said she expected some stories. My stories about my life in the SO (mainly at the flb) have never been horror stories because most of my memories, including RPF are not hurtful, except for one, something which happened about 3 years after I blew the so in 1981.

    When me and my wife blew the SO date coincident with Miscavige heavily influencing the scene via his CMO network, the time when all the tested and proven Ethics and Justice LRH Policies began to be ignored and replaced by arbitrary, politically oriented miscavige orders, and by the way, that was the only reason for my leaving the SO, which I had held very dear for a decade. I was a bit lost as to what direction I should take, just for a while, then I had my evaluator hat back on and I soon had a job in Dallas working as production manager for an electronics company. And I was doing well there until we heard David Mayo was in Santa Barbara. We went there to visit and the visit ended in David recruiting my wife to be a major part of the new AAC. She had done NOTs training under david mayo, they had been on the ship at the same time and so he completely trusted her. When we eventually moved from Dallas to Santa Barbara, CA, I decided to stay out of the game and literally mind my own business. I think I sensed what was coming( AAC early days) in the way of plants, PIs, etc, all out to put David Mayo out of business, all orders from Miscavige being executed by Vicky Aznaran and others.
    Still, lots and lots of people from all over the world were coming to the AAC and Mayo seemed to be achieving whatever his goal was at the time.
    Meantime, while the AAC seemed to be booming in spite of the daily RTC gunfire. I did not want to take part in that battle. I could see David and Goliath fighting each other and didn’t think David would win this time. I just wanted to build my life in a new unit of time, and understood the nature of the battle being so close to it, but wanted no part of it.

    I opened a business in downtown SB. I am an automobile engineer and at the time, after 10 years of being SO 24/7, and now free of restrictions, I felt good about starting my own business. So my new auto repair shop was going really well, I am very good at it, I got busy and my attention moved to my work rather than the aac vs Miscavige, although I would get daily reports from my wife. And by golly I even got to meet the legendary SP of all times Otto Roos!!

    But one day I saw a car drive into the shop, two people came out of it, flashed badges, promptly approached me, asked for my name and quickly one of them drew his gun and rested the barrel near my ear while the other handcuffed me.
    Next they looked around in drawers and cupboards and when I asked what they were looking for, they said they had been told I was illegally in the country, that I was an escaped convict from a nearby country and that I was probably armed and dangerous!! They were genuine INS agents following a “tip” provided by RTC.
    By now I started to realize who was behind this. When the feds were getting me into their car, I saw a car parked nearby with one guy hanging out the window taking pictures of my arrest for evidence. They were smiling. There are about 90 miles to LA from SB. During that trip to LA, I flat out asked them how much was the church paying them to get me arrested. They were truthful and told me they had checked with my country’s authorities and I was clean of those allegations, but for the “tip” that put the validity of my immigration status in question and therefore a court would have to decide after examining all pertinent documents. Meantime, I would have to be behind bars.
    When we got to the court house in la they put me in a holding cell and came back later, took me out to a quiet corner and told me they knew how much money the church (DM 1985) had spent to produce this result. They also adviced me to contact the LA Times and tell my story. And they gave me a reporter’s business card which I never used.
    I was eventually transported to another facility they use to hold illegal immigrants. Nancy Many wrote this episode in her book. We were friends at flag, and she told me this before she wrote the book. She says she witnessed the day when I was taken away from the LA court, how my wife was in tears watching helpelessly and a bunch of “church” people gathered for the event and cheering while my life was practically being destroyed, just like that.
    I went back to work after the AAC posted my bail (I was not a member of the AAC! But my wife was a big part of it.) I hired a lawyer who immediately gave the impression that I had a very strong case, etc, so I just kept on working until all the profits were going to the lawyer’s wallet, I couldn’t keep up the legal expenses, so I capitulated and asked the government for what is called “voluntary departure”, they agreed, and I was gone.

    Sound familiar?

    Yeah, old habits never die. DM was busy at this sort of thing from the
    beginning and he hasn’t stopped. Publishing Marty’s whole life history to make him look unstable is now a more refined evil intent but just as transparent as he is. No danger there as long as the good results keep on truckin’.

  417. ❤ Eric.

  418. WN,
    Being upstat you’ll get attacked, just for being upstat. The only way you get and maintain a power is constant alertness and constant willingness to fight back. Europe has just emerged from the most vigorous, deceitful, venomous and well funded attack on its health ever launched.

    The American medical, mental and pharmaceutical cartel has, through its Rockefeller and other suppressive foundations, successfully overwhelmed and almost completely wiped out good doctors, ethical practice and (medical) education there.

    So, in its glorious mood of victory the cartel thought Europe would be a piece of cake and tried all its successful American tricks on Europe. However, the plans backfired unexpectedly and it had to take some heavy beating.

    At the moment the power push is in withdrawal here and the EU is still furious (something you won’t read in the mainstream media). So they appointed an ARCX auditor, Obama, to try and safe some of their European interests.

  419. martyrathbun09

    Erwin, well put: “So they appointed an ARCX auditor, Obama, to try and safe some of their European interests.”

  420. Alex,

    Terrible story, so sorry to hear this. I did not know this had happened (at the time all matters concerning AAC were handled by RTC — under VA and Jesse Prince, the direct day to day management was Warren McShane supervising Greg Ryerson and Allen Cartwright), but I am sure this is true and it was the prevailing mindset. “Little people that get in the way or cause trouble get squashed — itys the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” — somehow it just doesnt fit with the compassion and concern for human rights that is sold to the world.

    I hope that in the subsequent years you have put your life in order and are doing well.

    There is much we can all look back on with pain and regret, but we can also take everything that has happened as a learning experience — so we can move forward. One of my all time favorite sayings is: “Never regret yesterday, life is in you today and you make your own tomorrow.” I learned a LOT — and I am trying to use that knowledge to make a better tomorrow.

  421. Good for you !!

  422. “One solution might be (spirit-mind-body) to get the person away from Radical Scn”.

    Agreed if New Age means healthy living than I am all for it.

    “Because a lot of cancer survivors, like Suzanne Sommers recently, like my family member, report that they turned things around when they decided to take complete charge of the recovery on their own and studied the condition and made adjustments to diet, lifestyle, own attitudes, etc.”

    I KNOW there these people and I am very happy they fixed the problem themselfs.

    But I am talking about “Too Big to Fail”

  423. RJ,

    I thought we’d come to a mutual understanding about this issue a few months back in an earlier exchange.

    As far as I’m concerned, Ron’s opinion on smoking is just Ron’s opinion, and from what he wisely said in one of the PDC lectures, we as self-determined beings are free to agree with his opinions or not.

    And my opinion is mine – based on facts as best I can ascertain them. HOWEVER I have no interest in enforcing my opinions on others, because way more than fearing the harmful effects of smoking, I fear the totalitarians of the left who seek to impose their opinions about everything large and small upon all mankind.

  424. Keep up the good fight !

  425. This thread has been as hot as a pistol. Really interesting and intelligent exchanges going on. This blog has turned into the Scientology Internet hot spot. The conversations that had to happen are finally happening. Thanks all for the pleasure of your company and thoughts, and thanks to Marty for tearing down the walls between us.

  426. Oh, excellent.

  427. Watchful Navigator

    Hear, hear! I like that post. I’ll have to read that book soon. Heard of the guy and the book – just needed the recommendation.

  428. Mike R, thank you so much for your heart felt answer. I, like you, learned a lot during my decade in the SO and I used what I knew to build up a new life away from the old fold. For the record, I have never in the past 25 years looked back at my Scn life with pain or regret but I think I needed an ack concerning the incident I have related. I am well, my family is well and believe it or not I thank my lucky stars for putting me in the path of Scientology, one of the best learning experiences I’ve had this lifetime.
    Thanks again, Mike.

  429. Alex: You are most welcome.

  430. Watchful Navigator

    Thanks RJ. We’re really tracking on this subject – the “R” is quite high. And thanks for the article link. LRH Freedom articles are still so very relevant, in my opinion.

    I suppose it’s a fine line between “having the confront of evil to think the unthinkable” and “mocking up something, where there is a really a nothing”. Not always easy to tell, but you have to start somewhere.

    “Confront of Evil” + “Willing to be Wrong” are both critical ingredients for a capable investigator aren’t they?

    Getting disentangled from the GPMs (games conditions – “Scientology”(monopolized) vs. “its Enemies”(manufactured or pre-existing) ) of the past, as Independents we now have a far better shot at arriving at the truth.

  431. Three words – Freewinds Blue Asbestos

  432. You’re welcome WN.

    Yes I think Confront of Evil as long as one doesn’t fixate on it and willingness to be wrong at times are not just important to investigation but to living as well.

  433. A Sparrow told me the FDA is looking into the matters of the E-meter again.

  434. Ironic isn’t it that thanks to the actions of Anonymous Wiki is flooded by Scientology info. Maybe not always nice but nevertheless it’s up.

  435. CD,

    Are you sure it wasn’t a Coo Coo Bird?

  436. Publius,

    It may be his opinion however it is based on his data set regarding the effectiveness of Dianazene which as you know contains Nicotinic Acid NKA for PC purposes as Niacin.

    So there may be some validity in suggesting the possibility that those who smoke don’t smoke enough in order to run out the restimulation of radiation which we know *is* a causal factor in cancer.

    While on the other hand there has been no direct causal relationship between smoking and cancer.

    One for one someone who is exposed to a high dosage of radiation will contract cancer.

    On the other hand there is no such causal relationship in relation to tobacco.

    The Surgeon General just disingenuously says there is.

    In other words the whole campaign against Tobacco is predicated on a *lie*.

    Brought to you by the same Government that claims that Marijuana is a deadly narcotic.

    So “deadly” in fact that they place it under schedule 1 when in fact it a relatively harmless analgesic (compared to Demerol, Oxycodone, Morphine, Heroine or any other opiate derivative) and a mild hallucinogen.

    In fact Ron himself lauds its by saying it is less harmful than alcohol in general and its action in “keeping a neurotic producing”.

    (In the earlier editions prior to the “Basics” jihad)

    The only problem with Pot is that its effects are longer lasting and stays in the system longer then alcohol and thus is more likely to affect auditing unless the person dries out for several days at least. Preferably one to six weeks.

    Tobacco itself unlike alcohol which requires at least a 24 hour dry out has no direct affect on auditing at all.

    Thus whether the person smokes or not is *not* a factor that is relevant to case gain.

    In fact as an Auditor I have found that attempting to quit smoking just as changing one’s diet in the course of auditing to have more adverse affects to auditing than just allowing the PC to do what he wilst whether I approve of it or not.

    (I mean I’ve had several PCs who ate no where else but McDonalds a place I personally detest because I consider that the packaging probably has more nutritional value then their concept of “food”.

    Yet these PCs got a nice basal metab at the start of session.

    So what was I going to say?

    On the other hand I’ve seen Pc’s who tried to eat right so they could get auditing.

    So they’d only get their food from Whole Foods or as we call it in LA “Whole Paycheck” and kill their metab.

    I’ve also had PCs who tried to “kick the habit” while getting auditing and end up running nothing but the PTP of Jonesing for a smoke.

    Or spend all their time trying to run out nicotine.

    As if auditing was directed towards nothing but a smoke free existence!)

    Besides there are worse things that are more dangerous to the PC’s well being and auditing in general than a little cigarette smoke or junk food.

    Such as Zyban and Diet Pills.

  437. I agree that Ron was not a god and he was just a man and that he made mistakes.

    But he never claimed that smoking *cured* cancer.

    You should really listen to that lecture again and hear what he really says.

    He never said that smoking was a cure for cancer.

    Nor is radiation or chemo or even surgery for that matter.

    Even doctors who use these methods don’t promote it as *cure*.

    They say get lucky and the cancer goes into *remission*.

    What I can say will possibly *cure* cancer I won’t even suggest because your friend Sparrow’s friends in the FDA say that it is illegal to even suggest that a remedy of any kind will *cure* anything.

    You can only say that it is “safe and effective” in treating whatever ailment it is including cancer.

    Also there are actually more than just three ways of treating cancer but the AMA strongly recommend only three that are the most radical and damaging.

    Personally I’d rather smoke a carton of Camels a day then subject myself to those other three but that’s just me and it should be my *choice*.

    Not some self important technocrats.

    I’d say the odds are about the same 😉

  438. Here is the only cancer reference I have seen:

    The reference is a lecture called “The Scale of Havingness” given on 29 Nov 1956 in the series “How to Present Scientology to the World”.

    “Cancer is not caused – never has been and never will be. It is not a caused mechanism by the external environment or some physiological
    activity. But certain cells of the body individuate and try to build a body when the second dynamic genetic line is blocked. They say,
    ‘We cannot go on from here. We cannot have any babies. There cannot be any more of this. And therefore we, completely independent of the
    body and its activities, must create a cellular entity.’ And they proceed to do so.

    “It always requires a second dynamic or sexual upset, such as the loss of children or some other mechanism to bring about a condition
    known as cancer. This is cancer at the outset. I have examined too many cases not to have recognized this, because it is present in every
    single case that had cancer that I’ve ever examined – real wild curve on the second dynamic”

    The CoS has been egregiously destructive towards the 2Ds of scientologists, breaking up marriages, breaking up parents and children, enforcing disconnection, encouraging and enforcing abortions, etc. The CoS has created loss after loss after loss on the 2Ds of it’s members.

    Perhaps that is the present-life basic on some of these cancer deaths.

  439. Yeah, there’s quite some difference between the tech and the ability to deliver it. Davey has developed just about every trick conceivable to prevent delivery. Personally, I don’t accept any delivered action by anyone if it conflicts my integrity, period. If that costs me my eternity, so be it. If it upsets the senior C/S, the Dof P, the intern sup, the EO, CLO or RTC, that’s their problem. I experienced that exactly that attitude allows real as-isness and saves a lot of trouble. I believe most of those on this blog have that attitude by now and I think that altered importance (auditing more important than integrity) prevents auditing from happening and is the main reason people stay in the Church while incurring trouble beyond comprehension and which forms Davey’s basic leverage.

  440. It was an Anonymous Sparrow 😉

    This won’t effect Independants only the “Church”

  441. SHSBC-35 6107C19, Q-and-A Period: Auditor Effect on Meter, 19th July 1961:

    “Well, there are societies in England that are having an awfully good time fighting the cigarette. They can’t do anything else, so they fight cigarettes. And they say that the cigarette causes lung cancer. And they’ve — you’ve been hearing something of this, I’m sure. Yeah. Not smoking enough will cause lung cancer. Not smoking enough will cause lung cancer! If anybody is getting a cancerous activity in the lung, the probabilities are that it’s radiation dosage coupled with the fact that he smokes. And what it does is start to run out the radiation dosage, don’t you see. But I’d say that would be better than not running out any of the radiation dosage at all and the number of lung cancer cases which exist, of course, that don’t smoke are just forgotten about by these societies, but they are very numerous.

  442. Great response, RJ. Sometimes you come off as pretty contrarian – a quality I admire.

    Love the part about trying to quit smoking or change diet while on auditing. I agree with you 100%, if I’d had any pc tell me they were doing either of those things while receiving auditing, I’d say forget it too – wait til we’re done!

    I do however know someone who self-determinedly quit smoking and handled all associated somatics while on a solo level & never resumed the habit again. I admired the hell out of that. Regardless of what one thinks of the risks of smoking, it is truly a difficult habit to break.

    Whole Paycheck indeed. I am with you on that one too. Give me Jack In The Box (or McDonald’s) any day!

  443. A visual aid

    “One size does not fit all: how the tobacco industry has altered cigarette design to target consumer groups with specific psychological and psychosocial needs”

    “Tobacco Companies Admit Their Products Cause Cancer, But Not In Those Who Sue Them”

  444. “One size does not fit all: how the tobacco industry has altered cigarette design to target consumer groups with specific psychological and psychosocial needs”

    You’re kidding right….CD?

    This is supposed to a ****shocking *****revelation?

    “Tobacco Companies Admit Their Products Cause Cancer, But Not In Those Who Sue Them”

    There’s is a difference to “admitting” to something and actually “doing” it.

    Or did you fail to note that distinction?

    I have a book you might enjoy reading CD:

  445. Thanks Publius,

    Well even though I partake in “the habit” I’m into taking vitamins and eating healthy food (as opposed to eating Health Food) and I can tell you that the regular super markets like Vons and Ralphs have finally broken Whole Paycheck’s monopoly and are now selling organic.

    Though they don’t have as big of a selection as you know who.

    But the prices are way better.

    Also Trader Joe’s is pretty good too.

    Personally I have nothing on anyone quitting smoking on their own determinism.

    I just object to reformed or ex-smokers preaching to us smokers as if they found religion and want us all heathens to convert to their smoke free religion or something.

    I’ve noticed a lot of people quit when they personally decide to quit because they don’t enjoy smoking anymore.

    I mean if you don’t enjoy doing something then it’s time to pack it in.

    When I was a teenager I drank cause everyone else drank yet I hated the taste of alcohol so I just quit one day and ordered coke or some other non alcoholic beverage when I went to the bar with my friends.

    The only down side was I ended up being their designated driver 🙂

  446. Good point Val,

    There seems to be a correlation between incidence of cancer among SO Members and the issue of the SOED forbidding children.

    Not to mention with the public in general when disconnection was enforced.

  447. Thetabuddy

    Stellar post!!!! Thoughtful. You nailed it!

  448. CD,

    I don’t know what kind of world you and annon sparrow live in but any investigation by the AMA’s and the Drug Industry’s favorite attack dog the FDA will certainly affect us *all*.

    AS is either deluded, stupid or suppressive or all of the above.

    I doubt if the FDA moves to infringe upon our religious freedom it will make a distinction between Churchies and Independents use of a *religious artifact*.

  449. GetTheConcept

    I noticed that too. It took years but I finally realized it. In fact, in the LOC book, it showed a picture of a guy in an office thinking with two thought bubbles, one of them where he takes a job helping the environment and the other where he takes a lucrative office job as a middleman. That is someone’s interpretation.

  450. “Tobacco contains over 4,000 different gases, particles and compounds including tar, nicotine and carbon monoxide. Tobacco smoke “tar” is composed of several thousand chemicals that can damage lung tissue and cause several diseases. Some of these chemicals include: acids, alcohol’s, aldehydes, ketones, aromatic hydrocarbons and corrosive gases such as cyanide and nitrogen oxide.”

  451. “Tobacco contains over 4,000 different gases, particles and compounds including tar, nicotine and carbon monoxide.”

    This is a generality CD and you know it.

    Since not all tobaccos are equal and others are chemically processed.

    As far as I know the FDA or the Surgeon General’s office has never bothered to test organic or natural tobaccos to see how they compare to *processed* tobaccos.

    Maybe they’d find that tobacco is good at alleviating certain conditions like Parkinson’s

    It’s also been known to increase mental acuity and alertness.

    (Maybe it makes people too alert which is probably why the Government doesn’t like it.

    But that’s just my own theory 🙂 )

    Not only that but as mentioned in the article it is proven effective in fighting depression.

    (Probably why our dear friends in the Pharmaceutical Industry want it banned like they managed to do with Marijuana because it cuts into their multibillion dollar profits.)

    Also it can act as a stimulant and yet can have tranquilizing affects as well.

    (I can just see the stock on those purveyors of uppers and downers plummet if these data got out to the general public. Not the mention….)

    And it is well known to suppress appetite as well.

    (There goes the sales on Dixie….er I mean Diet Pills.)

    The American Indians were very smart people as far as knowing about natural or herbal remedies.

    Something that the Eurocentric Smoke Free Nazis tend to ignore in their anti Tobacco jihad which is based on the same “scientific” research that brought us *Eugenics*.

    Last but not least Tobacco is what financed our war of independence against oppressive domination by a corrupt Monarchy.

    “Tobacco smoke “tar” is composed of several thousand chemicals that can damage lung tissue and cause several diseases. Some of these chemicals include: acids, alcohol’s, aldehydes, ketones, aromatic hydrocarbons and corrosive gases such as cyanide and nitrogen oxide.”

    Again as I mentioned earlier.

    *No Spectral analysis has ever been done on pure unadulterated Tobacco so what they are probably measuring are the chemicals used in processing it by some Tobacco companies of questionable ethics.*

    Of course instead of recommending that people should only smoke natural or organic tobacco much like the religious wackos here who only urge abstinence instead of using a condom.

    They’d rather have people die from poisoned tobacco so on one hand they can tell people how “dangerous” it is while taxing the hell out of it.

    Just like they’d rather have teenagers die from sexually transmitted illnesses rather then recommend that they use a condom.

    How nice?

    Good enough for Government work I guess.

    Not only that but have all these smoke free shills forward their agenda without even paying them a cent.

    How nice!

    However since I don’t work for the Government.

    I’ll recommend that if you are going to smoke.

    Smoke only tobacco that hasn’t been processed.

    I’d also recommend that you increase your intake of Vitamin C.

    But since the FDA has made it illegal to prescribe supplements I won’t.

  452. Gee I feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that the Fascist Drug (Industry’s) Allies are on the case.

    AKA as Fanatically Drugging Americans.

  453. Texas to get $15.3 billion–Tobacco industry settles suit over health-care costs

  454. Hi! Quick question that’s completely off topic. Do you know how to make your site mobile friendly? My web site looks weird when viewing from my apple iphone. I’m trying to find a template or plugin that might be able to resolve this problem.
    If you have any suggestions, please share. Cheers!

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