Texas is Independents’ Country

Corporate Scientology has gone bat shit crazy in Texas.  So much so that the Independents of Texas have firmly established the state of Texas as Indie country. Radical Corporate Scientology is a nonentity, it has become at most the creator of material for sad jokes.  Here are the most recent evidences of Corporate Scientology’s meltdown in Texas:

Here is what the central Idle Org of Austin Texas is up to:

The church of Scientology is not going to do anything about putting ethics in on the sleezy investment class that has single-handedly crashed the world economy. Note: this is no criticism of capitalism and investment but read Adam Smith – source on Capitalism – investment should reward the servicing of a salutary cultural purpose, not be a casino for the idle to cash in on the labors of others. In fact, rather than play the role of the mighty reform organization LRH gave it, the church is going to make as many sleezy investment class members as it possibly can – that way, goes DM’s reasoning, someday “I can own it all.”

Finally, CCHR – the once vanguard of patient’s rights and foe of policitically motivated committment procedures, has declared war on a Bill introduced by a long-time State Assembyman representing the ghettos of Houston.  The bill seeks to create a suicide hotline to prevent what is becoming an epidemic of self-destructive “solutions” in poor areas.  The bill further seeks to afford protection from rampant gang violence inflicted upon inner city children trying to get on with an education and becoming productive members of society.  Is the church proposing to man its own suicide hotline or bullying protection line in Houston, or anywhere else?  No, of course not.  Their ONLY target is to STOP.  You can google HB 1386 Texas – read the proposed legislation to see whether my analysis is unreasonable. Here is a “church” of Scientology emergency call to arms in the year 2011:

Corporate Radical Scientology is dead on Texas soil.

Viva La Independencia.

276 responses to “Texas is Independents’ Country

  1. Joe Howard

    I wonder how the Feshbachs would fare in Muslim countries where charging interest is forbidden and when a bank makes a “loan” to an enterprise, they become a stakeholder in the venture. In other words, they only make their money back if the venture succeeds, very unlike Western banking where if your business doesn’t make it, the bank gets your assets but you are still on the hook for the loan. Islamic banking, from what little I know of it, seems about 10 times saner than Western casino banking. I have sometimes wondered if the difference in banking practices isn’t a reason for the constant strife between Israel and the Arab world. In the Middle Ages, handling money was considered the lowest of the low on the employment ladder and was one of the only trades that Jews could practice in anti-Semetic Europe. There is an irony in there somewhere.

  2. It’s just a little ironic that the Feshbachs made their fortunes by betting on failure.

  3. I was born in Mexico and Texas used to be ours until it was sold by Santana to the US, therefore now that we are talking sanity, I think Texas and Mexico should once again become one, from Roberto Sanchez in Leon, Guanajuato, Mexico, to Casablanca in TX.
    Si senores y senoras y senoritas. Viva la Indepencencia y arriba y adelante!!

  4. Has anyone been by to check out any ideal orgs in Texas to see what’s happening or not happening as may be the case?

  5. Wow! Joe Howard! I never knew that about banking in Muslim countries. That is great information. I love getting information like that. I research many of the false claims by states. This also makes perfect sense for what is going on in Libya which evidence reveals is being fomented by the West and has a banking connection. I am off and running to find out more about this.

  6. George White

    Marty, Great Post!
    “but read Adam Smith – source on Capitalism – investment should reward the servicing of a salutary cultural purpose, not be a casino for the idle to cash in on the labors of others.”

    I’ll add in the Great Henry George(1839-1897), Progress and Poverty:
    “The vulgar explanation of progress is, I think, very much like the view naturally taken by the money-maker of the causes of the unequal distribution of wealth. His theory, if he has one, is that there is plenty of money to be made by those who have will and ability, and that it is the ignorance, or idleness or extravagance that makes the difference between the rich and the poor.”

    Also , Capitalists do not like to hear that Adam Smith was first of all a moral philosopher, and that in the end he was cautious about the spread of Capitalism.

  7. Hey, look what I stumbled upon:

    What’s this, Ideal Org and Saint Hill size being combined? Thought they dropped the Saint Hill size idea.

  8. martyrathbun09

    It is crazy how the greediest, economy crashing “capitalists” refer to Smith as some kind of God, but when you look they haven’t a clue what he wrote or stood for. Sort of like Corporate Scientologists and L Ron Hubbard.

  9. Bill Holly

    I f I were not Clear (as a minimum) I ‘d feel like puking when I see this and other unusual solutions from DM and his Miscavology.

  10. Great! Eleven staff members in Dallas? That’s more than DOUBLE Austin… Day & Fdn both!

    :::rolls eyes:::

  11. F.Y.I. – They can’t have Feshbach’s event at the org. The plumbing is backed up, it smells upstairs and down, and the A/C is on the fritz.

    But otherwise, I’m sure it’s a great place to deliver “standard tech.”

    …. Sheesh! I’m in a nasty mood today! Snide, snide, snide.
    I’ll go lighten up.

    Hook ’em Horns!

  12. And lets not forget the Aussies:

    It’s like “Boom, Pow, there you go!”

  13. Take a gander that dis. A good example of what the church of miscavige is about to do, rope and tie themselves.

  14. scilonschools

    Very worrying about request to halt HB1386, of coursr an awareness and confidence to stand up to ‘bullying’ would hamper DM’s new ‘Golden Age of Terror’
    As for the Austin orgs Bat watching, some of us feel that certain elements of the CoS have been Batsh## Insane for years!!
    Marty et al” Deep in the Heart ofTexas ”

  15. Sorry the money system will always create stuff like the church. It is not just Scientology that does this. Only a resource based economy and ethics will handle it. Auditing would help as well. Otherwise nothing else will handle it.

    I am not kidding about what I said above. You will never have a stable society till you get past the money system. Why do I say that. Well look at the damn church. It had all the tech and it still did not keep itself clean. Why? Well maybe there is a flaw in this whole system that LRH grew up in and did not see it. He did see some of it but he was a man of his times. Times change and so is this system.

    It is not just the crazy bankers and others that is causing this but I know that they and China is getting the blame. Also illegal immigration is getting the blame as well. But look at the real underlying cause and it is not the bankers and yes they did push the economy over the cliff faster then it might have as well as jobs going to China.

    There is at least a few Independents that has seen the real cause of it and one Trish House has gone even farther to create and Eco Village to help handle the transition over to a resource based economy as it is going to be a rough ride between this money system to the RBE system. Others has seen it and yet those who can’t think beyound the news bites of the cause of such can’t think of it and most that were in the church are going to have a hard time thinking that there is another way to have man kind exchange besides money. Boy I know for I tried to tell them for a year and it is so set in stone that I gave up on trying and thought I failed but a few contacted me and told me I got to them and I did not fail. But to the extent I wanted to I failed.

    What is the real reason things are going south in the economy. It is technological is the reason. Most jobs are going to machines and they are never coming back. JOBS ARE NEVER COMING BACK. HEAR THAT.

    Chinese jobs are going to go to machines too. The bankers just pushed it over the cliff faster than it might otherwise have done.

    Also have you guys ever notice that for the money comes over the Mother earth health. Money always comes first because it is needed for survival in this world. We are now moving to a stage one Society which Dr. M. Kaku has described. Just because we were in the church does not invalidate others research. The tech of Scientology has remained stagnant for the last 30 years but the rest of the world has moved on.

    People will do anything for money rather than starve and money creates a mental addiction one has to have more of it because of it creates the feeling of power and even better survival. So that will never change in the church or other groups as well and why I kind of renouced being an independent anything. I can think indendently being out of any group and yet I can still support the parts of the group that is workable. The money system is not workable. It might have somewhat workable when mother earth could have healed the damage man caused in his persuit of profit and man himself still could get some money to survive. NO it is not government fault and most people are social so I don’t want to hear the socialism argument either. Man was born to be social and work together or there would be no cities.

    I am rather tired of trying to explain this obvious fact to people who can’t think of out of the box.

    Otherwise all the stuff goes back in the box.

    This is how the game in this society is played but there is an moral at the end.

    Watch the movie at http://WWW.ZeitgeistMovingForward.com. I do think they found the mechanism that lays in the engram and they do talk about how unborn kids pick up stuff.

    Here is my video I made about the end of the above movie.


    Why is it so hard to explain the obvious to some people. But lately locally the people I talk to are getting it when they did not do so before. So maybe there is hope and I am doing it one more time here. The MONEY SYSTEM IS DYING A FINAL DEATH.

    Some economists are starting to see it now and their solution is a basic income grant. Nope that still will not handle what I said above. Technology will only progress. When the RBE comes you will have plenty of time clearing people that want to be cleared and yes I got a few RBE people interested in being auditors and or working with auditing.

  16. On the church side of things, yes, they are going bananas and will dontinue to do so with DM at the helm. I am sure someone will argue that bat watching is somehow extroverting and will give case gain. Quite frankly, as far as what DM is doing to LRH’s legacy, bat watching is probably a high point in his program.

    With respect to the corruptions in the banking system/wall street, my opinion is that the repeal of the Glass-Steagall reforms, during the Clinton administration, which were put in place to control speculation, was the chief cause of the debacle that followed. The repeal of the Glass Steagall sections of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between Wall Street investment banks and depository banks. Reinactment of these reforms would, in essence, cancel all of the worthless debt dumped on the people, and place it back on the foolish speculators who originated it.

    Further, in my opinion, only when we move back to allowing the Treasury to utter credit to the States, sans interest, as originally intendend by the framers, and do away with the corrupt Federal Reserve System, will we see sound money and improvement in the world’s monetary system.


  17. martyrathbun09

    Glass Steagall certainly proved to be a wise move – with relative prosperity during the ensuing sixty years after its implementation, no?

  18. Dr. Kaku on stages of society.

  19. Also It is insane the church is doing that. I used to drink the coolaid and now I refuse to. I woke up the hard way.

    Good Marty for supporting helping poor people.

  20. All that promo is going to do is piss off the thousands of public who have spent/are spending 10 to 20 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get through OT 7. They have been given so many false whys and promises over the years that they are sick of it.

    When I was the Treas Sec FSO I had staff who were responsible for calling public to collect for their 6 month C/Sing. It was about as much fun as doing dental work on a pissed off alligator.

    In reality Flag can’t touch its ass with both hands. Any day of the week you can find 3 “technical experts” watching an e-meter on a BIG screen tv, in slow motion, played over and over again and trying to get some agreement on whether something was an “F/N” or “instant read”. It’s the norm.

    I watched OT, long term, highly trained Sea Org members like Judy Sanders Christianson assigned to the RPF for “a non standard courseroom
    at the Sandcastle”. After over 10 years (3,650 days of 5 hours enhancement) of “rehabilitation” under the daily supervision of the Deputy Snr C/S FSO and the Deputy Qual Sec FSO they still couldn’t correct this staff member. There were about 70 people on the RPF and the average person had been there for 7 years (!!!!!!!) trying to correct some minor outpoint.

    Oh ya – Flag is going to get you through the entire Bridge and make you a “super being” in one year – and monkeys are going to come flying out of my – you know what……

  21. I have mentioned the fact that LRH was not a fan of capitalism and gotten reactions that are toned down harmonics of outrage. Of course I have to then produce the reference.

    In his words from the Rewards and Penalties reference HCOPL 6 Mar 66:

    And get no idea that I beat any drum for capitalism. That too is old-old-old hat.

    Capitalism is the economics of living by non-production. It by exact definition is the economics of living off interest from loans. Which is an extreme of rewarding non-production.

    Bruce Pratt

  22. The roboticizing and propagandizing of CCHR was one of the early signs, to me at least, that the CoM was willing to give up any rational discourse with society on improving the field of mental health. CCHR used to have members who could actually think rationally with and defend their arguments. By the 2000s, it had lost all good sense and just made more and more idiotic public statements that could never be rationally defended.

    In my opinion, the supporting of Bruce Wiseman’s “Psychiatry: The Ultimate Betrayal” (1995) and setting up of the “Psychiatry: Museum of Death” as it did, were the ultimate examples of how irrational CCHR had become.

    I remember in one of Jason (Beghe’s) videos, he described being asked by CCHR Int in the 2000s to be a national spokesman for CCHR, and Jason tried to find someone in CCHR or the CoM who could actually give honest and logical responses to the criticisms about the “Museum of Death”, CCHR, etc. And literally, no one could. Not even the leadership of CCHR. The leadership of CCHR were just robotically following orders, unable to think with the ridiculous statements that were being spewed by The Museum of Death, Bruce Wiseman, etc.

    There are plenty of areas in the field of mental health that could use improvement and reform. But the use of historical revisionism and propaganda are signs of cultic and thought-stopped thinking, imo, and not a sincere desire to improve the field of mental health.

  23. Fat Freddy

    You are right . Mohamed has forbidden charging interest. If you look at it
    the interest system is destructive on LONG TERM. The game is:
    Give me all/ everything (back) + 5%(or 8 or 12). What most people don´t realize is that- in order to pay interest back- the money must be entered somewhere somehow into the monetary system,and it is/was also a loan.
    During the decades the system is progressing in a way that more and more
    debts are being accumulated. Today,countries , companies, and individuals
    are so heavyly in debt that they are hardly able to pay just interest but no
    redemption. Its a trap. There is no way out.
    If you look the film “The International” there is given the answer why
    banker made this set up. The only purpose of the system is TO KEEP
    companies, individuals and countries in debts. Then they are able to controll all activities and enforce all kind of stupid stuff. (for example (warfare)
    Even is an individual or a company is prospering and do not clollapse,
    they are still part of the country and the condition of the country fights back…look at ireland, greek….Higher taxes, and expropriation follow.All
    kind of fees are being raised. Government enforce investments in the name of climate protection….more debts for the house owners.
    The effects of the interest system cannot be observed or evaluated easyly
    because it goes over a loooong period of time.
    Mohammed was a clever guy.

  24. Centurion,

    You are spot on with your analysis IMO. The repeal of Glass-Steagall rigged the system for the unbridled theft from the people by the kleptomaniacs with their debt based fraud and schemes.

    I offer the following video for some food for thought. In a way, it can be seen that Corporate Scientology fits in this mold:

  25. Thanks for reminding me of that but he also was for the money system which is and creates no different effect than capitalism.

    Even communism is still in the money system man it still does the same things. Equal denominator = money.

    Any ism that has money in it will not work.

    LRH did point teach money as exchange and that is what I recall the most for the church pounded it down my throat and forced me to do something that they thought was right which did not handle the problem.

  26. I read the legislation. You have to wonder what happened, how many children ended their lives to prompt this kind of legislation. Why on earth would Scientologists oppose mandatory notification to parents of teenagers who might be suicidal? I would want to know if one of my kids was in serious trouble.

    I also disagree that “to prosper” equals making a boat-load of money (even if it causes misery for others.) What ever happened to doing something you love, producing a valuable product that other people want, hard work, and being successful at it, while maintaining a work/life balance. Now that’s a challenge!

  27. In 1993 A stack of blue directives was placed in the registrars office at Flag.

    Anyone who would pay 100,000.00 and was qualified could go up to Int and get Super Power. The Feshbacks went.

    For almost 20 years now DM has been sitting on that tech, with holding it until members of the Church purchased him a new building.

    I think DM should be down in Texas teaching people how to squeeze dollars out of people, not Joe Feshback. Who has flourished and prospered in this game? DM. He has managed to with hold this Super Power and keep people away from it for decades in exchange for cash. He has been REWARDED for running a can’t have on people with the Scientology with huge donations! Blatant suppressive acts and having to have before we can do, and the public are throwing cash at it! It’s like magic! This is the speaker I want to hear about how to make a dollar!

  28. That is just the symptom of the current system. It will always cycle down to crash. Always in any money system.

  29. If anyone cares to see the movie Zeitgeist Moving Forward to see what the system really does.

    Here is the link for it on youtube.

    The rest you guys keep saying and pointing out is the symptoms not the cause. You need to go deeper into the cause.

  30. Flourish and Prosper by Joe Feshbach? Yeah like I want to hear what he has to say, give me a break! Corporate Radical Scientology is so dead. Great post Marty.

  31. People have a complete confusion between Capitalism and Free-Enterprise.

    Free-enterprise isn’t lauded as it should be because it is driven, primarily, by the market. Meaning, if your goods are shoddy – eventually you won’t have any customers (sound familiar). Then those shoddy product makers want LAWS in place to protect them. Farmers want subsidies cause they can’t produce efficiently – blah blah blah.

    And of course the consumer suffers with higher prices for shoddy good.
    (sound familiar)

    Without OSA, declares, fear and fear mongering – Corporate Scientology would have died years ago —

    People aren’t REALLY stupid. Corporate Scientology just thinks they are and thinks they can fool everyone ALL the time.

    Too bad they didn’t predict the internet, something critics, independents, news agencies etc — wow looks like OSA just drove up.
    No kidding.



  32. AC:

    1. Miscavige announces that OT IX and X will be released when all orgs achieve the size of Old St Hill.
    2. Miscavige destroyed management, so there is no way to achieve the goal — can’t even keep the ones that had been announced as St Hill Size pretending to be large and expanding (Orange County, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Paris, Moscow, Tampa, Joburg, Tokyo, Caracas (OMG), Stevens Creek etc etc).
    3. The public realize the “carrot” cannot be attained as there are no SH Size orgs being made, and even the ones that are announced shrivel and there’s no staff going OT in any of the orgs as there is no Universe Corps.
    4. Miscavige repositions the carrot — “Ideal Orgs” and the beauty of this is that he can keep showing “expansion” because all you need is money to buy and lavishly renovate buildings. Added bonus: those OT VIIIs wanting the non-existent OT IX and X are made responsible for the fundraising Tthey can’t sit around and complain about no OT IX and X when they havent gotten the money for their own org (and then others — look at Jensens, from Pasadena to Valley, LA Org and San Diego). And final added benefit for Dear Leader: he gets money for NOTHING. No exchange necessary — just buy a building that you put on the asset side of the ledger.
    5. But what of these small and failing orgs now located in plush palaces? They need a game — something for the future. Oh, that’s easy — let’s now do what Ron said! But, let me add some handicaps for you just to ensure you can’t get there (but hey, who would want to be “CI” to LRH, so we have to at least wax enthusiastic and smile for the promo piece like this is really FUN):
    a. There is no management so you get no evals on your org which is the foundation of the entire management system LRH invented
    b. You cannot train auditors — everyone has to do the interminable Golden Age of Aging line up — so named because by the time you get through it you will be too old to do anything else
    c. You cannot TALK to new public — you may only use the Fully Automated Robot Tech (FART) to disseminate
    d. Dont you dare start using the internet — we have a new $50 printing plant so you you are going to be shipped TONS of promo and pay for it to be mailed — everyone knows the boogie man lives inside computers
    e. Put off any thought of getting paid, all the FP goes to paying the electricity, property tax, insurance and promo mailing
    f. There’s no GI anyway, because the public are exhausted from the Idle Org campaign, and in any event, they are expected to the International Association of Leeches before they give anything to the org
    g. Oh, almost forgot, if the org does get any income, it’s probably for books and that comes off the CGI.

    That’s the big picture.

  33. Whew — good news. Just someone in a polo shirt with logo — looking for my neighbor to sell him a metal roof.

    I was surprised — but nothing these days really surprises me. We are all so interconnected, when the butterfly spreads its wing – who knows what happens on the other side of the world 🙂



  34. Old School

    “investment should reward the servicing of a salutary cultural purpose”

    Sorry, but that is just tripe. I don’t invest in stock because the company making widgets, “is servicing salutary cultural purposes.” I do it because I think the company will produce well in the future.

    The part about CoM is correct however.

  35. Tom — you are right. They are not messing around in their efforts to put in ethics. There is more on the horizon that is going to be giving Corporate Scientology major headaches. Things aren’t looking good for Dear Leader down under.

  36. Bozz — I am sure that while they can’t afford a plumber or to get the AC fixed, they are frantically trying to reg for their “Ideal Org” (and probably have a couple of hundred thousand set aside for that — but it cannot be spent on the current org building of course….) How sad.

  37. Yes, I find common ground with your remark. And I am sure we could also find further common ground in the idea that had income tax been eliminated with a concurrent check in federal spending, so as to not even need an income tax, we would really be in clover as a nation today. Instead, we are teetering on oblivion for want of sound monetary policy.

    I don’t see long term survival without a return to Glass-Steagall. However, the banking cartels have other plans. And mass individual prosperity is not one of them.

  38. Kathy Braceland

    Spot on Mike!

  39. Carol — My wild, stab in the dark guess is that this may have *something* to do with giving money for the “Ideal Org” and that to “open up your flows” you should give to a worthwhile cause. And what could possibly be a better thing than building another palace for Dear Leader. I wonder how long it will be before these Ideal Orgs have pictures of Dear Leader prominently displayed in them (of course, every event video showing in the lobby features his smiling visage and bizarre cadence — he is all you ever hear when you walk into an org) . The first Ideal Orgs had offices for him (Dept 21) — not sure if that practice is still being done. And after that some bigger than life size statues… The possibilities are endless….

  40. Interesting video. By the way, Rock and Roll is a tool of The Man. Bands like the “Red Hot Chili Peppers” and “Rage Against the Machine” feed The Man by allowing the slaves to seem like they are protesting the system and being “really free”… during concerts. After concerts, they go home to their little jobs, you know, the ones where they are allowed to have piercings and tattoos. Work for The Man during the day, “Rage against the machine” at night. Rock and Roll and Pop music has replaced religion as the opiate of the masses.

  41. Somehow my comment is in the wrong place. It is a response to AC’s comment about SH size, not the rope and tied one.

  42. Hey WH, I would argue that without OSA, declares, fear and fear mongering, Corporate Scientology would not be in the mess it is in now. If the Church just stuck to delivering Standard Tech, we would be in a different world.

  43. TroubleShooter


    When I read this,
    “Is the church proposing to man its own suicide hotline or bullying protection line in Houston, or anywhere else?”
    my thought was WOW what a great idea and so how long will the comm lag be where cob launches his latest brightest idea to do just such a thing and tell all the dozens of Scientologists still going to events about the watershed it will prove to be in the winning battle he’s winning against psychiatry!…let’s see how long he takes to do something with your idea…


  44. Here goes the old free market theory again.

    I kept saying no difference in capitalism or free markets. People use it as a religion or something.

    Both eat up the resources of the planet that are limited.
    Both toss stuff in the trash can for planned obsolesces.
    Both pollute the planet and then you go back to what we have now. It is so simple to see but yet I had to read to learn myself.

    The money system as anon would say = big fat FAIL in this society of technology and population growth.

    How do you fix the billion that is now starving. Don’t tell me it is free markets for I will not believe that story. I get a bit cranky because for me it is simple to see and yet I know it took me a long time to see even when I was ready to see it.

    Click on the link on my name to see the way for it.

    Once the resources are burnt up for profit and the planet is polluted with radiation and chemicals then we will have to find a new home to do it all over again unless we change it NOW.

  45. Yes, Bruce. I remember reading this refernece long ago and I felt puzzled by it. LRH admitted to living off of capital during an interview by the BBC in the late 1950’s. He concluded that it was wiser since in those early days of income taxation it would have taken a larger bite had he taken income rather than capital gains. I do not begrudge LRH for doing so, and I find no hypocracy in his words either. Simply stated, his money was legaly earned and wisely invested. He had worked like a dog all his youth, and in our system, one can rightfully claim such a position. He did it in an honorable fashion, and didn’t steal from others or engage in rampant speculation for a one time killing, or buy companies and liquidate them like Gordon Gecko.

    No outrage from me, my good friend. You rock.


  46. Actually, capitalism is a crashing misunderstood today. I thought it was Hubbard who said Marx coined the word and never defined it. Marx was not observing free-enterprise capitalism though. He was observing British Mercantilism. The so-called American brand of capitalism was pushed by Alexander Hamilton who wanted to mold American on the British system. It’s hardly free-enterprise or free-market. It lead to a central bank which steers an economy, aka centrally plans, for the sake of the banking cartel and money elite. To label it capitalism has set up this false dichotomy we have between needing some strain of socialism to fix or moderate which is then mislabeled as “progress.”

  47. I don’t see any long term survival in any money system.

    Look deeper. You guys are not looking deep enough.

    1. Planetary resources being used up at a rate that the planet can’t make for another billion years. Then it is made into stuff that breaks then goes to the land fill. I stopped a guitar and other things that work from going to a landfil. Also other stuff.

    2. People will always do what they have to get money to survive and so there will always be crime in a money society.

    3. Technology is replacing humans for the jobs. They got robots that can fold clothes and the rep rap that can make itself and it is a 3D printer and there is more out there. Look up the science stuff to see how far advanced we are getting.

    3. Corporations will always do stuff for profit and that means cleaning up the pollution is not on the balance books so look at BP and the Japanese reactors which you are probably eating the radiation from by now.

    4. No profit in helping nations that don’t have much resources so the people there starve instead of sharing planetary resources.

    5. Wars will never end to take some other nation’s resources such as Iraq’s oil and possibly Libya.

    Between the pollution and eating up most of the planet’s available resources there is not a lot of time left. Soon there will not be an ocean that we can eat from. They are tossing radioactive water into the Pacific. Count the Gulf of Mexico as toast too.

    I keep tabs on the earth and people pulse not just on the cult which I don’t care about any more. The people choose to be there and until they make the choice not to be there there is not a lot you can do but to point out stuff.

    Society, Corporations and governments have their own brainwash which is starting to wear off due to Dr. Kaku stage one society that is now forming.

    Everyone has it and no one who does thinks they do. When you were in the church and the true believer you did not think you were brainwashed and neither did I. Question everything and not just the church. Otherwise one is gullible.

  48. Sue you are the first one here that is on the right track to see what is going on.


  49. The hard work days are coming to a close what the movie on the link of my name to find out why.

    Otherwise I am going to give up on this blog for the people have not seen it that it goes deeper but I see you are on the path to seeing it.

  50. Joe Howard

    There was an enlightening article a couple months ago about the Rothschilds being behind the revolutions in the Middle East. Turns out that Tunisia was about to become the new center of Islamic finance and the Rs wanted to blunt their expansion to protect Western casino banking. The middle eastern market is apparently about to expand greatly and the Euros don’t want anything like a fair and just banking system messing up their further money grabs.

  51. I am pretty sure Texas out produces Phoenix too.
    Most of the promo they produce is nothing but outpoints.

    For example- the most recent one.

    Why are they “the champions”? They do not train auditors and don’t make clears. They don’t have an auditor on staff. About the only activity they do do is hold a continuous stream of events where they hold people in a room and demand millions of dollars for no exchange.

    Are they champions for their VFP statistics? Are they champions for delivering Scientology?

  52. Barb — You are on the wrong blog.

    Here, we tend to agree that if you removed people’s aberrations there would be no crime. You seem to believe that eradicating money would accomplish that objective “because people will always do what they have to get money to survive” Good luck to you (but don’t leave your potatoes out when the crops havent been good lest the guy walking past the front door steals them because he is dying of starvation).

    I dont disagree with your objectives, I doubt anyone would.

  53. Glass-Steagall is right for the Hamiltonian system we had, but it was not right to repeal it using the system we are under. Don’t forget new and untried regulations were also put in place in its place. So the foxes were put in charge of the hen house.

    In another system GS wouldn’t necessarily be right. By that I mean a system of fractional reserve banking, central banking such as the Federal Reserve which can turn on the spigots for printing paper money, provide cheap and easy credit
    ( Remember those regular 0% offers?) putting govts of the world and their peoples and students in ridiculous levels debt which is entrapping the world into involuntary servitude.

    The whole game creates moral hazards galore.

  54. Fancy-Barb
    LRH says money is just an idea backed buy confidence. If it wasn’t money it would be something else. It’s always been something at one time….even salt and coffee.

  55. Typo– “by confidence” not “buy confidence”. Pun not intended originally.

  56. martyrathbun09

    Producing what? Heroin? Or ECT machines? Or a product that serves some pro survival purpose? Or don’t you give a shit as long as you make lots of money? If it is the latter, go join the church of Miscavology – they love your type.

  57. Though CCHR might have a valid point as regards the legislation, seems to me that they’re treading a fine line due to their status as a 501C non profit organization:
    “Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct.”

    Bat Watching and fundraisers for their Idle Orgs and to pay their staff are far safer activities!

  58. I see you got a long way to go to understand. The planet which is humans that shares resources so no one has to steal at all.

    I am not on the wrong blog. If you were starving you would steal clear or OT or not. Parents would too.

    Watch the movie to find out otherwise I am not telling you guys again.

    Lucky you guys are not going to choose the future of the planet. It would still fail with the tech too in an system that suppress. I know auditing will help but I been out of the church longer than either of you (Marty and Mike) and others here. I have been able to shed my brainwash the tech will fix everything. I have seen it will not.

    I am not the leader of the group that saw it first either. You are not the first to see the truth as you keep saying here. Others saw it before me and I saw it too well before most you guys came out of the church. I see why people pick at you for you don’t admit that truth. I am going to be blunt here you got a worse case of brainwash than most. I find I like the world better in a non Scientology world. People are nicer so far by than most I saw in the church because in the church they are often 1.1 .

    You got about 6 -10 more years probably longer to figure that one out if you ever do. It depends on how deep the programming goes. I been out going on about 11 years and I got less of the brainwash but it still took me that long to see it. I see that is still is on this blog. Talk to me when you get farther out of the church and stop trying to fix it like I did a few years back. It is unfixable. The Freezone realizes it and stopped picking about it.

    I realize it is a step on the debrainwashing as I did it too but I woke up by reading the world news and learning data that they don’t teach in the church.

    There is data out there the church did not want you to know. The tech is not going to save the planet but it can help do so and yes I still like auditing but I became more aware of what is and why it is.

  59. LRH was sure competent in working the existing system, whatever system. It seemed he always had the gradients from where it is to where he wanted to go, and that sure seemed to be upwards on all dynamics.

    Yeah, I don’t see investments necessarily the same as a loan. If I invest, I become a stakeholder in that investment’s future. I give a loan, I want my money plus interest back at some point in the future, no matter what the stake of the loan recipient.


  60. I learn so much on this blog!

  61. That’s the truth.

  62. They piggy backed on other people’s losses all the way up the bridge.

  63. And hey, did you notice they are all dressed up like Sea Org Members now?

  64. Ideal Morgue

    Are you familiar with “Western” Venture Capital? They invest in start-up companies and only make money if the company does well because they’re shareholders in the company. Just about every successful high-tech company was started this way, e.g. Apple, Google, Facebook, etc. The founders of the company and the employees also make out well if the company is acquired or goes public. However, investments and loans are two different things. Most high-tech companies get investments until they are financially viable. Most investments are not structured like a loan in that they don’t have to be paid back.

  65. Howard Roark

    Thanks for that comment. Free-enterprise and capitalism are two different things.

    In addition, capitalism and financial capitalism are two different things by definition but that is point for discussion at another time. I don’t want to take away from the rest of your comment and the Condition 1 exchange of the Cof$.

  66. Glad you got it all worked out. As I said, good bye and good luck.

  67. Dan,
    Not sure & don’t understand what interest has to do with stock markets, as these are two different subjects, but there are quite a few markets in the muslim or arab world: http://www.asmainfo.com/

    Joe could find some stocks to short in that arena, perhaps.

  68. Howard Roark


    Once they’ve bought the building then there is the renos. Signage and such made in the slave labor camp in Commerce, then sold to the org at top dollar. That’s a cash cow that can run for years.

  69. Hi there —

    I’d argue that there are some basic flaws in the way it way/is set up, which sadly lead to the arrogant place we are now. ie the Sea Org and anything that places extreme trust letting human mete out justice.

    But that’s an argument for another day.

    And I’m no expert on justice, corporations, free market, money, exchange or anything.

    Heck. I can barely keep up with the weeds in my garden let alone deep economic theories 🙂


  70. Jow Howard,
    I omitted a comment on this part which I need to clear up in regards to my first post.

    “In the Middle Ages, handling money was considered the lowest of the low on the employment ladder and was one of the only trades that Jews could practice in anti-Semetic Europe. There is an irony in there somewhere.”

    Jews were also not allowed to own land and officials, both church and secular, closed many professions to Jews marginalizing them into occupations considered inferior. Professions related to money such as tax and rent collection as well as lending. Lending money was considered a sin and forbidden for a Christian. So these money related professions were dominated by Jews by circumstances.

    However, I would argue the strife was much greater between Christians and Jews in Europe with Jews getting along better, until modern times, with their semite brothers of the Middle-East. Also, animosity and conflicts between Christians and Muslims was much greater than it was between Jews and Muslims. Even if there was Dhimmi for both Christian and the Jew in Muslim lands, it never really amounted to what happened in Europe.

  71. Very good points anyway, Mike! The rope and tied is as a result of all those points you bring up.

  72. Howard Roark


  73. Howard Roark

    In September 2010 I was in CC Int. There were banners prominently displayed around the Rose Garden Cafe promoting the upcoming IAS event. These banners all had DM quotes from past events on them. No LRH quotes. Never returned to CC Int.

    btw, after I put some thought into it I concluded that there were no LRH quotes because THERE ARE NO LRH QUOTES regarding IAS. I doubt LRH even knew IAS existed before he departed.

    I know, I know – I should have gotten photo evidence.

  74. Wow… quite the thread. Very much an eye opener.
    I’ve never quite observed or gotten the mass of organised insanity shown or explained so efficiently before. Sure it puts the bottom of the tone scale on the table as well but the concepts and exposure of what and how money is defined by the pinstriped suited insane bears great weight.
    I have never quite connected the dots like I am now in seeing the downward spiral of this planet, truth is a slippery character sometimes, thank you very much, a lot more of what LRH said makes greater sense now.
    Once again I all I can say is, DM what have you done?!

  75. Howard Roark

    The Church of Scientology wants you money. All of it.

    Then they want your labor. Preferably for free in the slave labor camps in LA.

    Then they want your friends.

    Then they want your children.

    The Church of Scientology is not the Philosophy of Scientology as developed by L. Ron Hubbard.

  76. The Golden Age of Aging-too funny!!

  77. No, he means produce profits.

  78. Mike,
    Not good for Dear Leader, but it’s lookin’ good for Indies. Yep Dave, those fellas that don’t take your gibberish, with inimitable Australian style.

  79. Barb,
    You’re at the wrong blog, please troll elsewhere!

  80. I watched the trailer. I’ll watch the movie when I get home.

  81. Howard — you are totally correct. There is no LRH policy on the IAS and he didnt know about it. WHen he found out about the GO’s Save the Environment Fund (SEF) that they were regging people to donate for the support of the GO indictees he hit the roof and had it canceled with an atomic branding iron.

    No need for photo evidence – pick up any IAS Mag or watch the IAS events in October or on the Maiden Voyages or go sit in any of the IAS Reg Offices: David Miscavige is the poster child, cheerleader and chief spokesperson of the International Association of Stupid people.

  82. I was restudying my Qual hat today in order to route through the first graduate of the Independent Scientology Course Supervisor Course (c) and the following just sort of plopped out on the table. This is an LRH Policy of 7 May 1968, THE KEY QUESTIONS, THE DIRECTOR OF SUCCESS. I’m putting a couple of bits of it here for interesting reading. I wonder if any of the public at Flag know this reference. Might prove interesting to them to have this KRC.

    “Key Question One
    And the KEY QUESTION for students is:
    Key Question Two

    “If the answer is NEGATIVE or will not clean on the meter even with Protest, Suppress and Invalidate buttons put in, even if the person has been saying “yes” (propitiation), the Dept of Success Interviewer MUST MUST MUST send that pc or student directly to Review AT THE COST OF THE ORGANIZATION and must insist that STANDARD TECH is used to straighten up the case…”
    NOTE: Emphasis on ‘AT THE COST OF THE ORGANIZATION’ is IN the original, by L. Ron Hubbard.

    If you don’t succeed in your auditing or training, then say something!! The org has to repair it AT THEIR COST, NOT YOURS!!

    “Success is the final police point of an org. All students and pcs must go to Success before leaving an org even on a “leave of absence.”

    “If Success fails to do this job, then the field will begin to fill up with bad cases and flopped students and the Distribution Division is given the IMPOSSIBLE task of bringing public in where word-of-mouth is bad.

    “Distribution cannot do its job where STANDARD TECH is badly done.” L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 7 May 1968, OEC Volume 5. (To OSA, that’s the Qual Div. That’s MY div. But you know that.)

  83. Jimbo – yeah, they don’t buy the gibberish and can’t stand rip-off level “exchange.” Aussies tend to be rather pragmatic — you are expected to get what you paid for and pay for what is fair. Kind of basic laws of the universe. Senator Xenophon is vilified by the C of M, but he started out ONLY because people complained to him about being ripped off by the church, and they complained to him because he had made a name for himself standing up to the gambling industry saying they were ripping people off and destroying lives with one arm bandits (poker machines). His entire crusade is based on what is fair and it has a lot of support in Australia — NOT because everyone there is prejudiced against Scientology, it is in fact a very liberal country — but because of the inherent sense of fairness that prevails.

  84. Scholar-Thanks for the data.

  85. Probably are Sea Org Members. A ‘garrison mission’ to make the org look like it’s actually staffed and doing something (camouflaged hole).

  86. Well that As-Ised for me.

  87. You want to be on a Dooms-day forum.

  88. On the Opening Piece, so it would seem DM’s public are the same sort of fellas LRH found as ‘who’ for the current state on Planet Earth. Wow.

  89. Jim-i didn’t know that! Very interesting and it makes perfect sense.

  90. One last li’l bit from that 7 May 68 PL.
    “STANDARD TECH works. It works even on SPs and PTS pcs.”
    So, all that bullshit, ‘Joe’ and ‘Minerva’ about ‘it’s the preclear/preOT’s fault they didn’t make gains’ is a direct violation of the above Policy and CS Series 95 FAILED CASES. But you know that.

  91. On CCHR – I remember an interview years ago with the then-leader of the CCHR, Dennis Clarke. He’s not there now, and he was pushing Vitamin D last I heard.

    He was railing on and on about how bad Psychiatry is, and how bad psych hospitals are, and how bad psych influence is, and how psychs are drugging and hurting the insane, and all that. The interviewer asked a very good question:

    “What is the alternative?”

    That stopped Clarke. His answer after some hesitation was “to not do it!”

    I remember thinking – that is bullshit.

    Here’s the deal – IF the church is going to attack Psychiatry, THEN PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE.

    There is no alternative. NONE supplied by the Church, as Marty pointed out.

    We KNOW what to do. But, the Church is hamstrung on two counts:

    1. “Illegal PCs”. I hate that policy. I know the policy, I know why it exists, but I hate it because it closes out so many people from the fruits of the tech. I say, BE A MAN, and deal with the occasional fall-outs of suicides, full-on Type III sits, etc. WE DO ANYWAY. What do you call the situation around Jeremy Perkins? About a number of SO members and others who just went nuts? I have/had a really, really good friend who went insane a few years ago. What did we do? We locked him in his apartment, tried to get him to de-stim, and when he was toned down a bit, SHIPPED HIM TO HIS MAMA. This was an OT. And he was full-on Type III. It was a very eye opening experience for me.

    The Church’s concern, by the way, was not for him, it was for the out PR of an OT going nuts. Handle it quietly, ship him out as soon as possible. He is now Illegal, declared Type III, last I heard. That is the policy for anyone who goes Type III: Handle quietly, ship them home. NOT bring them back. Why? I could never figure that one out.

    What do you call a religion, or a man, who can ONLY HANDLE THINGS WHEN THEY ARE GOING OKAY? Who bails when the going gets tough? Who freaks out when someone throws a fit? I am sorry, but I thought we were here to help people.

    2. The second count is that we don’t commit to handling people who really, really need help. I get the concept of “making the able more able.” I really do. It is like trickle-down economics. But “making the able more able” should NOT mean “ONLY make the able more able, and screw the downtrodden, the messed up, the in-trouble, the so-called ‘down stat.'”

    THAT is bullshit. Let me tell you – we are all floating on this little orb together. We are all rowing the same boat, and we are all stuck here on this prison planet. All of us – at least all the people I have met, OT or not – are currently dependent on these meat-popsickles we are in. We cannot (do not, really) operate with each other without it. We are all to some degree or another beholden to the mechanics of the body, the vias of the body.

    You want to know why there are so many OT’s with cancer? Because they not-ised their body for so long, and it bit them in the ass. You smoke like a chimney, do NOT get regular screenings for colon cancer, do NOT get your moles checked, and do NOT exercise and keep the body ruds in, and you wonder why you get cancer? You get cancer because you are in a neglected meat body! And, yes, the stress of having to race all the time to keep the maw of Mr. David Miscavige’s machine fed, and the stress of squirrel actions definitely contribute a lot to the cause. Out body ruds + neglected body + squirreled tech and policy make a bad combination.

    So, to add to all that the incredible lack of compassion, lack of care, complete distain for ALL “weakness,” “illness,” “PTS-ness,” “Not making it go right-ingness,” “Being a victim-ness” and ALL that – and for kicking everyone I know UNDER THE BUS when they are no longer “productive.”

    To hell with them. To HELL with them. They are already there, actually, I am just indicating it!

    IF we gave a shit, we would have set up real mental asylums. Where “asylum” really means asylum. With real doctors and nutritionists to help with the physical aspects, and lots of nice, calm rooms, peaceful environments, open spaces (or closed, if needed). No ECT. No Thorazine. Etc. And, observations to ensure that the people who are there are really getting better, as opposed to rotely following some untested plans.

    But, no. We get emails from CCHR telling people to stop legislation designed to help people. With no alternative.

    (Pardon my rant! 🙂 )

  92. I can see it now….

    — ring, ring —
    “Hello, Church of Scientology Suicide Hotline. How can I help you?”
    “Ohhh. I just can’t take it. I am in foreclosure, the IRS is hounding me for back taxes, and the flood took out what the twister left behind. Ohh!”
    “Make it go right!”
    “er, wwha what?”
    “I said ‘Make it go right’, you nattering c^&% sucker!”
    “ah, well, I have this gun, see, and…”
    “Look, don’t give me any crap about guns. You are out-ethics. If you were in-ethics, you would NOT have pulled this in. What have YOU done to the IRS?”
    “Um, well, I made some money, and…”
    “Hold it right there – how much”
    “How much money?”
    “Umm, not much left, just a few thousand – that’s all I have in the world!”
    “Well, then! What’s the problem? You can help change the world!”
    “Er, I don’t get it. I can’t go on! I am being hounded, and my dog died, and…”
    “Silence! It is ALL because _YOU_ did NOT DO ENOUGH! You can fix that!”
    “Send it in.”
    “Send it in?”
    “Yes. All of it. It will return to you 10-fold, guaranteed! AND you can settle your IRS sit – no problem! There’s a seminar this Saturday with Joe Feshbeck – maybe you heard of him?”
    “THAT BASTARD. Shorted the company I worked for. I was laid off!”
    “Well, he can help you now! Just sent it all in, and we’ll get you rolling in no time!”
    “Damn – and right before 2, too!”

  93. Howard Roark

    Mike, I’ve never even heard of SEF not to mention LRH’s viewpoint on it. My guess would be that most of the current CofS members haven’t.

    I know there was a HASI, and I assume the IAS replaced the HASI after LRH departed. If so, what an insult! Closing down LRH’s membership organization and replacing it with DM’s.

  94. Jim, Yes, I do. I also know that at some point on the Bridge, we can rise above the influence of SPs. Not in the Church’s bridge apparently, but on the real one. See HCOBs on “Search and Discovery.”

  95. It get’s worse, Mike. The Austin org has no plans for moving. They are in the IDEAL, by Ron’s own testimony, location for an org!!! If they would fix up what they have, even $10,000 would go a long way from where they are now. But OH NO!!! Not without Dear Leader’s say-so! Heaven forbid we not be micro-managed into the ground. Literally.

    Once upon a time, there was an Org Board. And that Org Board showed who was in charge, and who to talk to when you have a problem. Then, Emperious Vampirous appeared! All decisions, all thought, all everything Start, Didn’t Change, and Stopped with Him.
    And the world went to hell.
    The End.

    It would be laughable if it weren’t so sad and so true.

  96. Holy Schmoly

    Good point, Grasshopper!

    You wrote:
    “What do you call a religion, or a man, who can ONLY HANDLE THINGS WHEN THEY ARE GOING OKAY? ”

    Exactly. “Handle things that are okay” is an oxymoron.

    The Church of Scientology is a Failure.

    What do you call a religion, or a man, who
    1. covertly launches and finances universally considered antisocial activities behind a facade of trust and “helping” people
    2. blatantly lies to destroy lives as a “fix-all solution”
    3. sees “enemies” “everywhere
    4. hates women and resorts to calling people of the female gender “whores” and “sluts” when they can’t think of anything else to “destroy” them
    5. regards the majority of the world as degraded scum, justifying owning all anyone ever is or does
    6. abides by no moral if “justifying” its actions
    7. gets people to pay $$$$$$$$$$thousands of for trusting them to hear “confessionals” (intelligence collection!!) which are in fact not holy sanctity but archives they use to destroy “enemies” behind a sham of credibility as they paint lies to cast people as worse than they ever were!
    8. makes up crappy stuff about members who want to leave
    9. pays people to libel, cheat, frame, lie about, trick others
    10. has a history of arrogance thinking it can break the law with impunity, including infiltrating and using the federal government as pawn in its schemes (Operation Snow White, and they are still at it)

    ….and that’s just for starters…

    Just what does one call such a “Religion” or “man”?

  97. mrinder, could be, however Cindy walked away from her Palo Alto Mission and I understand it has been picked up by Dusty Pope and has relocated. Joe, well he needs a job so what better way to get paid then to move from the Bay Area to Texas to try and pull the wool over the eyes of the Texans…not going to work!

  98. Joe Howard

    I was referring, I guess, to the larger subject of money, which ought to be a public utility, like water or electricity or air. Things started going downhill when money came to have value in itself. “The Secret of Oz” on YouTube explains it all in under two hours. Very educational.

  99. Grasshopper, the standard verbage was “You are a DB”. That applied to anyone who could not come up with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

  100. So, uh…
    What’s you’re point?

    You do have an excellent point. Back when Ron was around, Scientology and field auditors could have been part of the solution. Now-a-days… neither exists. At least, not in volume. Field Audiors are “under the radar” trying to avoid the CoM… which in turn is NOT Scientology, but claiming to be, creating a problem, a misunderstood, and false data for the current public.

    Ron’s vision not only got haulted, it’s been going backward in terms of PR. There’s gonna be a lot of work to be done to correct things… and make Scienology a solution in the eyes of the public again.

  101. No disrespect intended to Marty and his Field Auditor status. He’s one of the few exceptions to the rule. The exceptions know who they are! Radar or no.

  102. Excellent rant my dear Grasshopper. You tikked all the boxes. It’s the Rant onley a Scientologist can make to WAKE his fellow Scientologists THE HELL UP.

  103. Go live somewhere they don’t have money than.

  104. Who would have thought ripping of people was not fair 😉

    what a novel Idea.

  105. gern gaschoen

    I think you must know the concept of Cleared Cannibal? I would advise you, based on my understanding of your position, really .. to demo the concept.

    In my opinion, the point is made not nearly enough, that if you are an asshole in the first place, Scientology will make you a Much Better Asshole.

    This is why, in fact, there are policies in place to make sure the non-Assholes, civilization builders and so on, get some Scientology done, first. It hasn’t worked as a mechanism for group survival – because it hasn’t been applied at the very top of the org board, which is currently being marauded, as a post, by a very hungry Cleared Cannibal!

    In my experience, as you say, out here in the real world, versus my Church experience (decades), there were some really, really amazing people, the nicest I’ll ever know, and hope to see again some time. Deep in the bowels of those Church buildings, are some truly operating thetans.

    But you know what – there are cases of operating theta in the ‘big bad world’ too. Its out there. You can see theta persist in its effort to describe itself, and thus the Universe, on nearly every street corner.

    Its just all gotta get organized.

  106. Can't Fool the World

    Go TEXAS.

    Take a look at the NAME David Miscavige and Management have made for Scientology!

    GALLUP Poll
    Scientology is rated below Radical Muslim and Atheism 😮

  107. That money system has made it possible for you to post here on this blog.

  108. Joe Howard

    Things can change, however. Bolivia is about to pass a law granting the natural world the same rights as humans. In other words, the movement to counter the irresponsibilities of corporations (a completely abstract construction) is beginning in, fittingly, the country named for Simon Bolivar.

  109. Good Rant GH

    BTW, Grasshopper informed me he made good on his payment for losing our little wager in March.
    For those who don’t remember, GH offered up a prop bet for the Over/Under on DM being gone before/after March 13 of this year. He wanted the Under and I took the Over. (not because I wanted the little weasel to still be around…but to give GH a game)
    The stakes were set that the loser would buy Daniel Montalvo a nice dinner.
    GH recently informed me he sent a gift card to Daniel, enough for him to be able to take several friends out for a great dinner!
    Thanks GH

  110. Can't Fool the World

    ‘Special Affairs’ is right. David Miscavige and his limp biscuit not so bright Special Affairs have dumped and driven Scientology right into the Special Collections.

  111. This reply from Mat was meant for the previous post regarding doing the entire bridge in one year.

    The new post here is unreal. Bat watching? It’s the same phone number to buy your bat watching ticket and to reserve a seat at the “FREE” Joe Feshbach money seminar. It’s all for one purpose:


    I really don’t understand their promo to vote “NO”. They don’t even say why. They just want the lemmings to do what they’re told.

  112. “The money system as anon would say = big fat FAIL”

    let’s see for ourselfs ewhat Anon says 😉

  113. fred h - new jersey

    Has anybody thought about the real reason David Miscavige is bankrolling his Spy & Destroy operations on innocent people and members is because you all are hurting his poor little feelings?

    And maybe it’s easier from his point of view and more fun than actually applying a communication formula? I mean, look at it from his point of view. He has collected millions from parishioners. He can buy the sleaziest amoral people on the planet. He pours a scotch and pours over all parishioners “sins” as nightly reading. He walks the halls with that “I know everything about you” fixed smirk-glare. People cower. He buys buildings.

    Isn’t it easier for a man in his position to write checks to destroy people than to actually handle the genuine grievances and betrayals perpetrated? He’s a busy man, after all, the greatest spiritual leader of the world.

  114. “Some economists are starting to see it now and their solution is a basic income grant.”

    And this includes no money ?

  115. Laughter!

  116. Mike I would be curious if you , or anyone, knows the financial mechanics on these Ideal Orgs. The local public come up with the money to but their own org ,but does the real estate belong to them, the ones that paid for it, or the CofS legal infrastructure? And if so, do they (DM), take possession of the building and then force the staff to rent it from them?

  117. Holy Bat Shit, Robin! The Scientology Corporation field trippers are blind as bats, and NO SONARS!

    Little do they know they are puppets of the Littlest Biggest Battiest Bat there ever was!

    The Office of BatScavengers blows smoke and incense flattery: As long as they keep depositing their dollars, they are “immortal beautiful batlings” …But run out of quarters (or question a wrong) and Whoa! they’re BATtered and labeled the Guarana Lice Infested critters they once confessed they feared being in a Bat-fessional.

    Littlest Biggest Battiest Bat will send his myopic BATtalions to try to push every possible buttons, except…they’re blind. And some people care about truth more than button interference. Holy Guarana, Batman. POW!

  118. He will probably be scouting the room for investors.

  119. “1990, Sept. Keel, Pius suicide Reported in October 21, 1991 DER SPIEGEL Pius Keel, 22, Germany, threw himself under a tram after Scientology got all his money.”


  120. Yep – that is true. Said with not even a sneer.

  121. When canabalism is set in a cultural/social setting and is practiced acording to comunity rules there is no insanity in being a canibal.

  122. Joe Pendleton

    About 6 years or so ago, there was a top CCHR guy on the Anderson Cooper show. After railing aginst just about everything having to do with psychiatry for a while, the CCHR guy was asked by Cooper if even just drug free “talk therapy” would then be OK if a person really needed help, and of course the CCHR guy (after stuttering and comm lagging) had to say (confusedly and not making much sense) that ANY action by a psychiatrist is bad (with no data or even any reason to back it up). Of course, we all know he HAD to say that, but it was a truly embarassing moment for me and my friend (a Cl VIII) to watch. He offered no solution at all. The only solution the CofS would (or could) have would be is to “change your religion to ours.” LRH’s wisdom and tech DOES have a very important part to play in the future of planet Earth, but……not as an authoritarian/mind controlling church. I want to say more about this at a future time, but I have come to the conclusion recently that this whole Miscavige/”management” totalitarian regime (with its suppressive “ethics/justice”system, RPF, money hunger,etc) is a actually a GOOD thing for the eventual survival of the applied religious philosophy of Scientology, because it will eventually result in the end of the church of Scientology. With all its money, real estate and brainwashed young people, it may take another 40 or 50 years or more for the CofS to fully wither away, but it’s on its way to that, baby. The future of LRH’s body of work lies with small groups and individuals who have understood and successfully applied it and who want to truly help other beings. The church of Scientology, with its “top down/vertical” control of all aspects of its parishioners’ lives doesn’t need to be reformed or saved; it NEEDS to eventually COMPLETELY collapse and cease to exist. The Independant movement in Scientology is THE hope for the continued application and dissemination of Ron’s work.

  123. Tony DePhillips


  124. Michael Fairman

    BRAVO Grasshopper! This post is right on the truth. The lack of compassion from many of those still in the church is abominable! I asked a former “friend”(who was on VII and now is an VIII), when he spoke about “clearing the planet”, what about those billions of people who would never be inclined or afford to set foot on the bridge; who barely have food or shelter? His answer was. “Well, they’ll just have to be left behind.” WTF? And you’re absolutely correct about the deluge of e-mails from Wiseman and CCHR. E-mails forwarded on by “Scientologist” after “Scientologist” imploring me to call my Representatives to kill Obama’s Health care bill because it was evil. Never mind that millions of kids were getting health insurance and that millions more would be able to afford care who had none. No, the single issue CCHR decried was funding for psychiatrists and drugs. Instead of building ideal orgs, hiring PI’s, sending OSA bots around the world chasing after those who have fled the church , use the money to EDUCATE the public about alternatives, and as you mentioned, set up real “asylums. I’ve heard homeless people being dismissed by “Scientologists”( adults and children), as bums, DB’s and downstats, with of course, never bothering to find out the circumstances. No, there is no real compassion in the CofM. Only a pretense. That sham is obvious in everything you spoke about. The robots now in the church continue to be chained, deep in Plato’s cave and forced to stare at Miscavige’s “reality”. It’s sickening Evergreen thanks again for your “rant”.

  125. Tony DePhillips

    I always knew that GH was a stand up guy. 🙂

  126. I’d say that’s a good assessment of the situation.

    The question is, how can we convey what’s going on to the staff members still in? How can they be made to see what is really happening?

    The group that has legal rights to the name “church of scientology” is not the same one from the past.

    The real church of scientology, the one from the past when things were running as LRH intended, still exists. Those people left and are scattered around the planet. It might be worth trying to assemble the members of the church of scientology from the past, the ones who cared, the ones that were trying to bring man up and help the planet.

    In the end it’s not about money, trademarked words or copyrights, it’s about people. It’s about people helping other people.

    That’s what exists in the Independent field it’s the most important thing.

  127. Astute observations as usual, Marty.
    You know how to get the adreline flowing around here.

    For all you fence sitters, lurkers and OSA Bots who just can’t decide what is and what isn’t true. And for those of you who think the Australia commission is just another attack on the wonderful world of miscavige, try this.

    Next time you are asked to donate for IAS or Superpower or CCHR or your local idle org, ask these questions:
    1. How much has been donated already?
    2. Where can I get a full accounting of where the money has been spent?
    3. Where is the written program authorizing this donation and detailing exactly where my donation will be spent?
    4. Where is the LRH policy authorizing this donation?

    All the Australians are doing is putting in ethics on one of the most out-ethics groups on the planet. It’s pretty sad that it had to come down to this.

  128. Dan,
    As an option in the stock market, one could invest into “Sharia” funds such as:

    There is an explanation for these Muslim type of investments:

  129. Equilibrium EM

    Here’s something interesting. There is no question that some of the services sold by Scientology are helpful, obviously people have benefited and the writings and creeds make sense when read or practiced.

    That’s a personal choice, and respectable.

    The breakdown occurs elsewhere. Scientology sales tactics of hard crush sell and aggressive manipulation disregard (disrespect) their clients rights to live whole and balanced lives. This is what makes a travesty of the Scientology “help”.

    The help is used as bait on a hook. Under the guise of helping the individual, they destroy individuals and justify that it is for the “good of all.”

    Whatever it is called, in plain human it is dysfunctional fraud. Here’s how it goes:

    Paying for a service is, in itself, a respectable way of obtaining help.

    People pay for Help or the pursuit of wisdom. They get it. They achieve and attest to States of Enlightenment and are given certificates. OK. Good enough. (Granted, lately some of these “products” are debatable, but that is a different topic).

    Then these enlightened, super able clients (members) see something dishonest or not right in the Church. They speak out. Abused clients and/or staff are not offered effective remedy by their very “church” (where they are paying clients, attested & validated/authorized by the “church” to evolved states of enlightenment). They become disgruntled and rightly seek remedies to wrongs.

    THEN the Fairy Tale ends. These enlightened, Evolved Immortal Beings … Why, they aren’t wonderful talented Beings after all, the Church decrees! In fact, not only are they not spiritual beings, they’re SUB human. The pathological “Discredit Lying Machine” begins. Turns out the Church now reserves the right to label these beings anything they please ….with no regard for the truth or facts. Today a Super Human. Tomorrow, a scum bag.

    In fact, the Church Corporation has its own special offices behind the scenes. This is the nonsecular part — the untrained, non spiritual sneaks that read people’s counseling sessions and twist facts and hold people’s fears or whatever they happened to blurt out to their “trusted” “Church” as ammunition to try to harm.

    No, you see, by the Church’s own admission, the states a person achieved, the client’s inherent “basic goodness” is only ‘true’ as long as the collar is on. The fraudulent Corporation believes it can Grant and Take Away people’s Dignity as well as their Eternity at Will.

    Not only that, they proactively engage in “destruction operations” that former clients and all their associates and family lives become ruined, destroyed, miserable. Gas lighting, frame jobs, libel, you name it, they’ve got the Scientology Special Squad to do it.

    Wrapping one’s mind around this taxes even the most intelligent and decent person — you can’t make up the disrespectful stuff this “respectable Church” flip flops into.

    Talking facts: The Scientology Church has turned out thousands of people who one day were wonderful, then…gong…just like that, suddenly are attacked and depicted as just the opposite of anything they ever were.

    Seriously? Oh REALLY?

    Scientology Corporation admits its own failure. It does not stand by or respect what it purports to have delivered and produce… in fact, look at the failure! All these nasty evil degraded people they once gave a Certificate of Enlightenment.

    And BTW, I tend to believe that these people DID achieve Enlightenment and betterment. And is precisely why they were able to turn and look and distinguish (differentiate) between what part helped and what part of the Church is pure evil. And I mean evil.

  130. Unfortunately GH the alternative has been suppressed. There is an alternative and it’s called Scientology. It is not only an alternative, it is the solution. Poverty , degradation and crime have been going on for eons. No “good solutions” have been going on for eons. The current Church is not embracing Scientology, which is compassionate- it is dramatizing suppression. Dm will do anything to keep people stuck in their cases. Thetans when they truly move up the Bridge and really handle their cases become saner, more compassionate and in a position to help.
    You can put in the sanest system and there are always enough insane people to destroy it. That is why Ron gave us tech on suppression and insanity. All of us have to really get our confront of evil way up or we’ll just keep going around and around and people won’t get helped.
    Ironically, as an auditor for years I had to audit out the bad effects of psychiatry, now I have to audit out Miscabology.

  131. Watchful Navigator

    An activity that “produces” -profits- as its “product” is usually a PONZI scheme.

    this would include:
    -The Federal Reserve Banking System
    -The Bank of England
    -International Banks
    -any of the millions of their “duly chartered” member centers of Euro-American casino banking and ponzi finance
    -most, if not all, of the pyramid schemes that have been promoted by Radical Scientologists as solutions for “affording your Bridge”

    And then next in the line of MEST control operations: the “corporation” as a MEST machine, granted “thetan status” (“all the rights and privileges of an individual”) which is just the ultimate in abdication of individual responsibility. And then by the legions of laws cooked up to prop up this phoney arbitrary, actually results in a _legal_obligation_ to manage for the bottom line – i.e. for “profit”. Or else the Board of Directors can be sent to jail for “breach of fiduciary responsibility” to its “shareholders”.

    Heroic exceptions have existed and bless them, for they are whom LRH celebrated as “the few desperate men carrying the world upon their backs”. Trouble is, they don’t stay around forever, and their heirs don’t follow them up with the best intentions.

    And after this game runs its course we get a total domination of the individual by government, “corporatism” which is the fully-developed machine-state version of FASCISM, with the total loss of individual freedom and democracy, in order to “protect the group from the individual”. This ends up being of course, an inversion of the natural thetan-mind-body order LRH was working with in his design of the Org Board, which ordinarily permits individuals to engage in satisfying cooperative activities which produce exchangeable and truly valuable, final products.

    Thank you Marty, it -does- matter -what- it is that is produced and invested in.

    These perverted whole track systems in subservience to MEST-as-“God”, were imported to planet Earth by the Rothschilds-Rockefellers and the virus is consuming our planet. The Holy Bible illustrates their impending apocalyptic collapse and warns us of its end result. And LRH in his writings (see also, last chapters History of Man) puts it all in terms we can easily understand.

    Their secondary and final, “final product” is ENSLAVEMENT.

    It’s no accident that as Larry Brennan recounts, the MisSavage jumped on the corporation model and the above-mentioned convoluted legal machinery developed by generations of SP lawyers and accountants, to reshape the church into a perversion of LRH’s mission, with its primary activities all but devoid of exchangeable product.

    And with the IAS and its loyal and well-paid army of FSMs, a real, bonafide PONZI scheme, fueled by a network of statused parishioner ponzi-schemes, for his personal benefit.

    When enough of us wake up to all that and act on it, we’ll get to go free as a 4th dynamic.

  132. The church takes possession and they become assets of “International Reserves” which is controlled by Dear Leader. If the IAS or “Int Reserves” bought or paid for any part of the building they are expected to pay rent.

  133. Fred H — The Life and Times of David Miscavige in 100 words. Amazing. Dan Sherman is turning in his coffin (he sleeps there during daylight…)

  134. Very cool. I like a man of his word. And a gracious winner who acknowledges his opponent.

  135. CD – dont waste your keystrokes….

  136. Grasshopper, around 1970 when I was first discovering Scientology, I was working on the “Convalescent Unit” of a University psych hospital. It was not a locked unit and most of the in-patients there were not particularly “insane”. They were going through some rough spots on their journey through life. We provided a calm orderly environment in which they could withdraw from the hurly-burly of life, kinda take a time-out and reflect and have some folks around they could comm with about their concerns. They were there voluntarily and it was often helpful to them.

    The serpent in the garden was the psychiatric ‘tech’, chiefly too many drugs prescribed almost compulsively. This is because for whatever reason, psychiatry is basically about nullification and control not about the interests of the individual.

    Among the nursing staff, we used to say sometimes “Can’t tell the players without a score card”, referring to patients vs. their doctors. But the doctors were usually identifiable by their expensive suits.

    Back then, I thought by now there would be institutions based on scientology principles. It did happen in some hospitals in Italy. Not here in the USA. And that was certainly a ‘win’ spurred by CCHR.

    In fact, all the necessary infrastructure existed herein the USA. The buildings were there, many still are, although almost all the State hospitals in Michigan are long since shut down. This was the result of the advent of “biological psychiatry” in the 1970s-1980s and their promotion of ‘new miracle drugs’ that would allow institutions to be closed and patients moved out into what was being called “community based psychiatry”.

    The truth is, insurance companies were screaming bloody murder about the expense of hospitalizations that were often lasting a year or more and psychiatry was under heavy pressure to come up with ways to produce quicker results or else. This is really what has allowed ECT to survive as a treatment modality. It is one of the few things psychs do that demonstrably create a quick effect on patients. You may say it’s a destructive effect, but even some activist “ECT survivors” will tell you that is not exactly what they are objecting to, about the practice. What they object to, is psychiatrists deceitfulness about ECT’s ‘downside’, some of the ill effects people suffer from it.

    To sum it up, if the mental health system could have been put “under new management” it would have been a wonderful transformation. Buddhist monks or Scientologists could do the job better. Just about anybody could!

    But I rather think LRH was right, that psychiatry is part of the overall control systems the “vested interests” have running. It’s still possible to break the area free or evolve it as was done in some locations in Italy, because the “vested interests” often operate by means if ‘influence’ rather than outright ownership of political and social systems, but they are relentless and would often prefer to ‘bend’ rather than ‘break’. Give ground ‘here’, only to recapture it ‘there’.

    I believe this is because they would prefer to stay hidden in the background rather than be an obvious visible presence.

  137. Bozz — wow, the “Men of Few Words” are out in force tonite. “Once upon a time.. to “The End.” summariizes a hell of a lot!

    Yeah, cant beat being across the street from UT.

  138. Joe Howard, brilliant. How would the Fesbachs fare in Muslim countries…perhaps they would be headless!

  139. Marty, I agree with everything you said on this post except for the bill in Houston. If you read this you will understand why the bill must be stopped. “The bill would amend the Health and Safety Code to require the Texas Department of Health, in coordination with the Texas Education Agency, to provide a list of recommended best practice-based early mental health intervention and suicide prevention programs for implementation in public elementary, junior, middle, and high schools.”
    Basically, it is a covert way of putting it all in the hands of the psych’s. I worked in legislation and saw how many bills of this type were lobbied by the psych’s to get more business. Pure and simple.

  140. +1 Fred

  141. +1 Mike

  142. On this subject of Economics. Robert Heinlein’s first novel titled, “For Us, the Living”, written about 1938, was first published posthumously in 2003.
    In chapter 8 or 9 I believe it is, he describes the basis of a sound economic system and also describes a ‘demo kit’ in the form of a board game anyone can make at home, using which one can work out the inevitable result of any theory of economics, from capitalism to communism and every one in between.

    Heinlein’s thesis is that every existing economic system used by Man at this time, inevitably leads to Bankruptcy.

    He also describes an economic system that does NOT lead to bankruptcy and in fact leads to a decent standard of living for everyone. This book can be found for cheap on Amazon and Ebay, and also check your public library:


  143. Watchful Navigator

    Awesome post, GH.

    What I was thinking but didn’t quite know how to put it…

    Thanks for taking the time to state it so well!

  144. Mike-you are so good with these acronyms as to what they really spell out

  145. Howard

    Yes, I am a lifetime member of HASI. It is very likely that a lot of people who post here, or visit, are too. Suddenly that wasn’t good enough, because HASI was abandoned/unmocked, it seems, and the IAS was instituted. Had to buy your lifetime membership all over again with the IAS, at a much higher price. Well you actually didn’t really HAVE to buy it but you didn’t get any of the price reductions if you didn’t.


  146. one of those who see

    Bats, Investments = Church off the rails. AND, overtly off the rails. Staff and public who really think things are fine must be at the point where they are dubbing in.
    Regarding the CCHR thing. Look, I don’t want kids being put on drugs and given tons of the false data that psychology and psychiatry spew forth. Not sure what’s in this bill. But, if there is a hotline – terminals available for someone who is desperate to turn to, to just itsa-they may very well save lives.
    Wouldn’t it be a cool thing if the VMs set up a hot line for any troubled person to call. Not a reg cycle. Not a “way onto the bridge.” For God’s sake, not for book sales!! Just people available to listen and maybe with some hatting so they can help blow some charge.

  147. Tony DePhillips

    Why don’t they have a bowling night?

  148. Margaret, I have heard that what happend to CCHR is they were doing good work exposing human rights abuses, and the possibility arose that CCHR’s spotlight might turn to the abuses going on within the CoS itself. Whereupon the IAS stopped giving CCHR any grants, leaving CCHR to twist slowly in the wind as the saying goes.

    Up to that point CCHR had done a lot of good work, including exposing kickbacks for admission referrrals and insurance abuses in hospital systems in Texas I believe, as well as elsewhere. I believe CCHR was invovled in getting some mental hospitals in Italy turned over to being managed by the people who needed them most, patient groups. Also the exposure of many psychiatrically caused deaths in Australia and Canada.

    I haven’t read”Ultimate Betrayal” but the title rings true to me in that going for help because you are having trouble coping with life and wanting to improve your conditions, but then getting drugged and electroshocked as the solution seems like a betrayal to me.

    Now I’m inspired to get it and read the book, because I’m thinking it may actually have parallels that apply to the abuses the CoS has been indulging itself in!

  149. DM in a three letter acronym: COB= Chimp Or Baboon.

  150. “Any ism that has money in it will not work.”

    Money is an energy, not a virus. See how fast you get across town without a bus token. It only represents LABOR performed or services rendered or goods delivered. If it is obtained honestly.

    Some interesting revelations about employee relationships and why company owners go public and start selling stock in their company:
    By the way, it’s ISM.

  151. Well, it wouldn’t be the first”church” in history which opened it’s doors only to the “right kind of people”, those who bathed before church, dressed correctly, didn’t use bad language and put up a good front ‘before the Lord’. Not to mention always put something in the collection plate.

    On another note,
    Seen on ESMB: “What kind of Church forbids it’s members from following it’s own Creed?”

  152. Actually Ingrid, ALL decent alternatives have been suppressed, as far as paid-fro, institutionalized mental healthcare goes. A healthier system could be run by Buddhists, Christians, Humanists, RD Langian ‘antipsychiatrists’
    the Salvation Army, many schools of psychologists, just ABOUT ANYONE with some compassion and some ‘people skills’.

    Psychiatry IS a ‘vested interest’ that serves other ‘vested interests’.

  153. Scott Campbell


    A great book that proposes permanent solutions to all of these problems and more using EXISTING technology is: “Prescription For The Planet” by Tom Blees.

    By it. Read it. Promote the solution.


  154. Thanks. I wonder how many Orgs are paying rent to Int Management for giving Int Management most of the the money to buy the building. This sounds really bad. Like they are under mortgage terms or obligations.

  155. Scott Campbell

    Really – Please… Stop helping me!

  156. Scott Campbell

    Once again Barb. “Prescription For The Planet” by Tom Blees.

  157. “My wild, stab in the dark…..

    No out 2D’s on Marty’s forum!

  158. Damn rights Sam!

    The whole organization is One Big Camouflaged Hole.

    It sucks the life and prosperity out of anyone who enters the doors.

    No matter how much money is given to the church, there will ALWAYS be more reasons & emergencies created which will inevitably result in cries for more cash to fund these ’emergencies’.

    It is a bottomless pit where the actual products of an org are virtually non-existent.

  159. Hi Marty;
    Looks to me like Joe Feshbach is promoting his own criminal tech on LRH’s lines. Hopefully it will be seen for what it is, degredation of self and others.

    Flourish and prosper occurs when you create a valuable product coupled with the attitude of exchange in abundance.

    A good idea, guts, integrity and the liberty to act are the keys to success, not finding ways to screw up others.

  160. Yes LDW, it is sad that the CofS has become the CofSF, the Church of Ser Fac. How right can it be? Dead right. It’s already so reversed in ARC it rejects theta wholesale.

    Nice job Dave. You’re quite the manager.

  161. Hi Howard;

    The key to understanding the IAS/HASI thing is to realize that they are memberships to two entirely unrelated organizations.

    The IAS is not the membership for the Church of Scientology.

    The IAS is the membership for the Scientology Religion.

    These two organizations are NOT the same thing. The Scientology Relgion is a totally separate organization from the Church of Scientology. Those who buy IAS memberships are not members of the Church of Scientology, but of the Scientology Religion. The IAS will ‘accept’ members of the Church of Scientology into the Scientology Religion. The original wording to that effect was very condescending.

    It is, in my opinion, a bait and switch type of scam.

    HASI is and always has been the membership for the Church of Scientology.

    If interested, you can google ‘CST IAS HASI’ and that will lead to the light. Another good place to start is:


  162. Hi Scholar;

    It is interesting that the Jews being forced to make a living by handling money made them and their skill mobile, and they were in great demand by various princes and states to come in and set up the economy, which they did.

    Further, to their advantage, they were not subject to the feudal system, which was what allowed them the mobility.

    In many ways, prejudices aside, it could be argued that they were in a better position than any one else.

  163. ♥ Go Texas Independents !! ♥

  164. martyrathbun09

    You doing anything to solve childhood suicide and beat downs/violence in schools?

  165. Count,
    Having worked in psychiatry I know how you feel, but now I believe that is a battle we have already lost simply because we are unable to offer and put in place an alternative. We had a chance 20-30 years ago and blew it. We had CCHR, we had Scientology, and we let them slip away. The fact is there were counter-intentions to our goals of which we were just not cognizant enough.

    I believe LRH said something to the effect of “First, bring order.” Unfortunately it is psychiatry that got it’s foot in the door to be the one to bring some order into those kind of scenes, as much as we think it is a low-toned and suppressive order, which it is.

    We are back to square one. Well, actually we took 3 steps forward and slipped 2 steps back, as CCHR efforts were successful for sometime, in ‘bringing psychiatry under the law’ and some reforms have been done.

    But we haven’t accomplished a ‘revolution’. So we have to get back to accomplishing ‘evolution’. Americans spend more money on ‘alternative health care’ than is spent on the institutional medical system. Let’s keep that trend going, by offering better alternatives and also by watch dogging and whistleblowing on psychiatry.

    Scientology is Scientology and as such ought not be squirreled. But applications that filter out into the society should not be condemned out of hand because they will be evolutions towards a higher scene than existing psychiatric care. Going back to the 1970s, there were many psychologists who could have been our friends. Even some psychiatrists were, like Eric Berne. The trend among the CoS was to attack them as ‘squirrels’ and make enemies of them. They may have been squirrels, but they were our friends and we invalidated them. It was a mistake then and it’s still a mistake.

    Have you ever heard Buddhists denouncing psychiatrists or psychologists doing research on meditation, as ‘squirrels’ because they didn’t follow ‘Buddhist KSW’? I haven’t. And now ‘mindfulness meditation’ has been established in the practice of many psychologists to the benefit of many patients.
    That’s an evolution upwards.

    It could have been TRs or widespread use of Self Analysis. Eric Berne used to start his group therapy groups with 20 minutes of TR-O. He was a psychiatrist who could have been a poster child for dianetics and scientology. But he was condemned as a squirrel. Which of course technically he was. But he was helping to move the evolution in the right direction. And if you’re not a “scientologist” to start with, how much of a “squirrel” can you be? Either/or doesn’t always work in the real world. There are shades o fgrey, as well as all the other colors.

    It is the fault of literal-minded Scientologists who cherry-picked policy, failed to evaluate for importance, and used policy to stop the evolution upwards. They used policy to prevent uplifting ideas and practices from filtering out into the society. It’s the same kind of Miscabogian thinking that promotes that when the psychs are all gone and the Ideal Orgs are all built the whole world will suddenly be cleared and all our problems will vanish. It was a lie, a delusion, an effort to stop pretending to be “on Source”.

    Buddhists in their quiet way succeeded where scientologists failed.

    It’s our own mess to clean up.

  166. martyrathbun09


  167. “The Secret of Oz”
    Dan, You are right. Great documentary which every American should see.

    Aaron Russo’s documentary “America: Freedom to Fascism” is another great film. (By the way, an independent Scientologist helped Aaron in making this film.)

  168. OK Tom, you win the MOFW award for today!

  169. Yvonne Schick

    Having organized too many events of this type, here is my prediction. At the end of the seminar, Joe will ask people to share their wins, then ask them to write a Success Story. After they are all pumped up and have shared how much more money they are going to make because of the wisdom he has imparted, he will pass out donation cards and they will be asked to make a donation or at least pledge a donation based on the value of what they just received.

    And, yes, they must have this off site in the very upstat Austonion because the org building is so hot (no working AC) and smelly and moldy that even the most dedicated public can hardly tolerate being in the building.

  170. Traditionally in that pic, you have all your staff members in it.

  171. This is the news alot of people have been waiting for. The Church of Scientology is no longer about Scientology it is about “Look what your money can now do for Scientology and POSSIBLY yourself as well”.

    These advertisements prove it.

  172. Marty, it sounds to me like the Count has reached this state of mind here and maybe needs a little rehab?

    When you were young
    And your heart was an open book
    You used to say, “Live and let live”

    You know you did
    you know you did
    you know you did

    But if this ever changin’ world
    In which we live in
    Makes you give in and cry
    Say, “Live and let die, live and let die”

    What did it matter to you
    When you got a job to do
    You got to do it well
    You got to give the other fella Hell

    When you were young
    And your heart was an open book
    You used to say, “Live and let live”

    You know you did
    you know you did
    you know you did

  173. Dallas pic

    A lot of public and staff in the Dallas area have quietly ‘faded off’ from the Church of Miscavige and are reading this blog and/or have researched some of the links. Even some of the current staff know that things in the church are weird… …very weird.

    Some of the past threads and comments by witnesses on this blog are real eye-openers. I would like to see some of these highlights resurrected from time to time to help edify new readers.
    For example: David Miscavige and the thick copper wires grounded in buildings so he can get off his charge. Miscavige’s training level and how he hit a pc. The hole. What happened to Mary Sue. Heber. etc.

  174. Hey! The Chimp and Baboon Anti-Defamation League is already onto your comment! You are in BIG trouble!

  175. Interesting video. However, a lot of people are pretty good at observing outpoints in life and inventing explanations. Thats sort of what religion is. Where it leaves the category of “interesting” is when it leads to practical application in some way that makes things better.

    Another point of comparison to religion is that the author is clearly assuming that some “higher power” or man at the top is controlling everything and has some sort of plan for all this. I don’t know that thats true. Maybe it is, but I tend to think that humans are all in the same mess and don’t tend to have this type of viewpoint. I think we fear this viewpoint from the whole track the same way we fear things like societal collapse, war, enslavement and a bunch of other things we would have no reality on if we really only lived once.

    Again, I don’t know that some of this stuff isnt true, I just think a lot of the fear and concepts of it come from other times and places and are not a present time observation of truth. I think things happening on earth right now are just lower order dramatizations of the past. Not that thats a good thing.

  176. Bluebonnet

    Would we have to change the name back to Tejas?
    Has anyone notice the Texas state seal? It sure looks like the Sea Org symbol except the branches are of live oak and olive. I would attach an image but I don’t know how.

  177. Phoenix did that.

    Bowling, karaoke, barbecues, garage sales, movie nights, costume parties, coctail parties, gambling nights, donate your gold teeth night, whatever it takes to get people to show up- Except Scientology.

  178. AtCause, Hahaha!! Viva Las Vegas! How frikkin gaudy.

    That picture of the Dallas org front is some twisted person’s idea of “similar Reality” OMG hahahaha Just like the “faux coliseum marble” in the Rome Italy org.

  179. “read Adam Smith – source on Capitalism – investment should reward the servicing of a salutary cultural purpose, not be a casino for the idle to cash in on the labors of others.” – Mark Rathbun

    True and thank you. Marty, the depth of your cross-cultural understanding of the human spirit at different times in history in our quest for justice and wisdom, is very enriching. You often cite examples, quotes, you can draw parallels and see outcomes, errors, and things that worked for so many individuals whose works you recommend and share. They only help me appreciate your appreciation for Scientology all the more.

    I’m grateful for the time you take to share it. You’re really bright. Thanks. Thanks for all you put up with for this, too.

  180. Joe Pendleton

    A bowling night AND a fish fry! (Yes, we have other fish to fry and they’re actually FISH!)

  181. To flesh out the scene a little, here are my views about some of DM’s possible objectives, from earlier postings:

    The orgs have indeed been bleeding from their arteries and have been since the formation of the IAS in 1984. But it is my view that they are and have been all along deliberately bled.

    DM’s objectives include not just the “negative gain” of obliterating LRH tech. He has an Ideal Scene of his own in mind, of replacing LRH’s scene with an entirely different one.

    The IAS has essentially destroyed the viability of the orgs by financially Third Partying between the orgs and their publics. IAS reges overtly tell public they will get more case gain from donating than from auditing and training. All of the public’s money has been siphoned off so no-one could afford to pay for going up the Bridge.

    This of course destroyed staff income and has also prevented myriads of people from going Clear and getting trained as Auditors, thus killing two or three birds with one stone.

    That’s why I call the the IAS the #1 Suppressive Group on Earth – because it has been a successful direct attack on all of Scientology, by posing as “a friend of scientology”. “We are the IAS”? Uh-huh, sure. Just like “DM is Scientology”.

    I believe this has been an intentional strategy to destroy the viability of orgs by impoverishing their publics, thus cutting their financial lines, and making staff posts not viable. It has not been the result of simple mismanangement, but a deliberate strategy.

    The Ideal Org strategy is part of the overall objective – the destruction of orgs delivering Grade Chart services and training and substituting for them “upscale” MEST “cathedrals” which have the possibility of attracting wealthy corporate donors and government support.

    The “government support” angle might be to make some of the technology available to selected government agencies, agents, and VIPs.
    How about a “Superpower for Supersoldiers” training program? Or one for spies? VIPs could of course be offered the carrot of “Clear”. Since this is a government that has been known to pay $600+ apiece for hammers, well, how much might a VIP pay to have his “Eternity” secured? And the military spends enormous sums just to train ‘ordinary’ soldiers….

    Having bled the “common” man-in-the-street type public donors dry, DM has been going after the big money of wealthy patrons. Since he really doesn’t want people getting trained as auditors and going Clear and OT (THAT is what really makes him “panic” to say the least),
    he doesn’t care whether or not the orgs are losing public. He is hoping they lose them all except the wealthy, because he only needs a relative few wealthy patron donors or lucrative government contracts to keep himself in the style to which he is accustomed, and the Devil take the rest. The only kind of ‘publics’ he wants are the Feshbach types.

    And he can accomplish all this while continuing to play one of
    his favorite games as described in the Transactional Analysis branch of psychology – “Look How Hard I’m Trying!”(I’d have the planet Cleared by now if I wasn’t surrounded by DBs and SPs, poor me!)

  182. Joe Pendleton

    Valkov, you make some great points here. Re: psychiatry – HCO B “Pain and Sex” covers a lot of ground on a couple of pages. As someone who regularly enjoys sexual activity and also experiences physical pain, I can fully understand how these flows/sensations/compulsion can stick a thetan’s attention onto his body in a very bad way. The points LRH makes about that indicate to me as truth based on my own experience. The point he makes about psyciatrists though is very sweeping, without any backup data whatsoever to support it. One is just expected (in the CofS) to accept that “whatever LRH says is true.” Or one could apply the “Personal Integrity” essay. One could argue that the backup data is “all confidential”, but I have had teenage MAAs (who have studied very little Scientology) go over this with me as complete, accepted truth. LRH was quite willing to work with psychs as allies in 1950, and then some of them worked against him. Thus psychs were now “the enemy.” And so goes the same old story. (None of what I said, by the way, is to sanction shock treatment, lobotomies or any other psychiatric abuse) But I think it is pretty to think that all psychiatrists are suppressive.

  183. Joe Pendleton

    I meant to say “Pretty SILLY” there at the end of my last post.

  184. Equilibrium EM . Nice post and nicely written. You may not be a Scientologist, but as a Scientologist myself of 40 years, I agree with you 100%.

  185. Valkov, this says it all! —> “What kind of Church forbids it’s members from following its own Creed?”

  186. Thanks, Scholar. Some very salient points you’ve made.

    LRH mentions that money is an idea backed by confidence in his excellent PL on economics (sorry, can’t remember exact title and date), and you will find this definition in economics dictionaries as well.

    Another good definition of money is that it is a medium of exchange. It facilitates exchange because people agree to use it instead of bartering. Civilizations through history were able to grow and prosper and disseminate culture through the use of forms of money. Money as MEST is just a thing; therefore not good or bad by itself. It represents energy.

    We Scientologists ideally focus on spirituality and ethical exchange and playing a game where everybody wins. Almost any system would be workable if maintained by high-toned individuals. In any case, a high-toned society would keep whatever is workable in a system and discard the harmful over time.

    Management at Orgs and internationally seem to have lost sight of the notion of EXCHANGE of Valuable Final Products – and measuring such through stats as Value of Services Delivered, GDSes, Cash/Bills, and so forth. Hiding the actual Org and international stats or displaying graphs with no statistically verifiable parameters or scale just shouts that there are withholds and lies, and little by little more and more public and staff distrust.

    This situation really is BATTY!

    So what are we doing… applying ethics gradients the best we can! MENTIONING to others, at the least…is one such, on this blog.

  187. Ingrid, this applies to everything you read on the internet, don’t assume you are learning something until you verify. I’m not in any way disparaging the fascinating convos here but blog comments are not a bastions of facts. If you read something you didn’t know, or it perks your interest, always verify via established sources before you assume you have learned anything.

  188. Valkov-Scientology is young and many who have used it have abused it. Ron has given us tech that can be used dangerously and stupidly such as the tech on the tone scale, tech on suppression etc. I’m very grateful he didn’t withold that data, because when used properly can produce miracles and I believe will ultimately handle major issues on the 4th dynamic. The big goof was not using it when it came to DM-it’s the huge lesson we have to learn. We are all waking up from a major 3rd dynamic engram.
    Ron understood force and that is why auditing is so effective and why the 3rd dynamic will be very effective, once we get our acts together on that dynamic. It takes a lot of work to do Scientology-the study-all the words you have to look up and then what you have to go through to really confront stuff. But, DM made the study of Scientology unconfrontable-As a result most of the “cherry picking “of PLs are done by him and his implanted robots- ignorance is a product of an SP.
    For me the main evolution that has to happen is for Scientologists to really understand Scientology. Then you will have a lot of people going “holy shit-this is unbelievable stuff” Then they will handle the environment in a sane way.

  189. +2
    Compassion is an intuitive, theta quality. Many are the founts from which it can spring.

  190. Thanks Val,

    I’m a big Heinlein fan.

  191. +++ DITO +++
    There are so many intelligent, knowledgeable, self determined, helpful people……… UAU!
    You never stop amazing me.

    Mille Grazie, Ladies and Gentlemen!

  192. 40 Yr Scientologist

    Pertinent to this discussion, I feel are some recent tweets by the Dalai Lama:

    “Rather than working only to acquire wealth, we need to focus on the welfare of humanity as a whole.”


    “The aim of spiritual practice is to become the friend of all beings, concerned about them and ready and able to help them.”

    And this one, which to me describes for me what the Indies are achieving:

    “Human nature is such that the individual is most happy and relaxed when he or she can share happiness and trust with others.”

    – which, of course echoes LRH on that subject.

    I recommend “following” the Dalai Lama on Twitter, if you are into that (@DalaiLama).

    Tons of wisdom, in elegant little tweets, highly compatible with the true spirit of Scientology, as it was meant to be practiced (and now is, outside the Cof$)

  193. …or badminton games for sunny days. Attendance/participation mandatory. I can just see the KRs flying and lower conditions assigned if one is absent from bat spotting… ‘CI to command intention’.

  194. A bunch of VAMPIRES

  195. Anon Orange

    Google Joe Feshbach.
    One of the most prominent articles about him is this:
    In the article you’ll see:
    Q:What is your highest conviction stock position in your fund – long or short?
    A:Our long position in Cytori Therapeutics (Nasdaq: CYTX) is our highest conviction.
    When Joe Feshbach was asked the question, (Jan 2010) CYTX was around $8.20. Note that he says “long” and not “short”. By July 2010, CYTX came down to $3.15. It has since gone back up to $8 and now it’s $5.61. Note that most stocks have done great in 2010.
    By investing in this turd, you would have lost 61.6% of your value in less than 6 months! Most people would panic and get out.
    In this stock’s entire lifetime since 2006, CYTX has fluctuated wildly between $3-5 and $8. It’s not going anywhere, it just fluctuates.
    Because it is a small company, it’s possible that it’s being manipulated and someone is cashing in on the fluctuations both UP and DOWN.
    If that’s the best advice that Joe Feshbach can give you, you’ll get better advice from my cat Danny’s stock pages at the bottom of his litter box. Right now, there’s a big turd over CSI, CST and RTC. Short it!

  196. Oh, good fucking lord!

  197. LOL!

  198. TheWidowDenk

    fred h – new jersey —

    Thanks for commenting. Don’t recognize your “handle.” Just in case you are new to this blog, it’s good to refresh a post made October 12, 2010. The following words are from a COB transcript of mid-2007. It says a lot!

    “In the last few weeks, it has not been nice. Do you know that pimple you saw? Well, I popped it. We’re talking two guys buying X-rated movies and masturbating simultaneously in the same room with one being the husband and one being the wife, going through Dean and Deluca (a gourmet mail order catalog) catalogs as husband and wife and the bald-headed guy buying the other one cheese as a favor. We’re talking about the guy who was on the finance lines and refused to get you the finance issues, waiting for R to come back so he can be permanently appointed for the rest of the universe as the International Finance Dictator. We’re talking about me finding out exactly what Mike was doing in 1982. We’re talking about Marc’s op. We’re talking about me knowing exactly what MR has been doing on his sympathizing for all the SPs who got nothing done.”

    These are the words of “a busy man, after all, the greatest spiritual leader of the world.”

    Lest we forget …

  199. Old School,
    Plenty of people (lenders, venture capitalists, individual investors) are motivated to invest in ventures that produce something of a broad value to society. Why? Because we want to get a fair return for the risk we take and because we want to improve the chances that the economy and society will continue LONG-TERM to create opportunities for more (not fewer) to flourish and prosper. Winning a quick buck (by investing in war machines, for example) is neither the wisest nor most profitable kind of investment. That kind of investing is very short-sighted. But I guess those kinds of decisions vary, depending on how long your long-term view of things is.
    My two cents’ worth.

  200. Green Robots

    Not only is there a lack of compassion in The Church of Scientology, there’s a lack of spirit and warmth but there is a mean and vicious streak.

    The Church of Scientology is in its prime doing what it does best: lying to the public and attacking someone who is trying to “stop them on the Bridge” (and we know the world is FULL of such people!! they are everywhere!! some are even green!) … Then all manner of malice comes out.

    We are collecting the ways they go after former members. What a hoot! Every escaped “member” of the Church who is male is harassed for having a male organ. Every escapee who is female is harassed for finding sex enjoyable (and we know what THAT means, why the hussies!)

    What a great book showing the robots who write the Harassment Campaigns, (we have their names!) who infiltrate local communities, who act worse than any bully on Earth in all their mean petty glory, thinking they are crushing people by finding buttons or digging dirt, and just plain making it up and throwing out generalities … And the clincher? the only filthy ones in the room are THEM DER confused evil zealots.

    No David Miscavige and OSA bots are not defending Scientology. Their crimes against the tenets of the church they purport to uphold are just plain old mean evil.

  201. Seriously? They really said that? So, if I don’t want to buy the IAS regges’ out-exchange bullshit then I’m the DB? And I’m the one who’s out-exchange? Wow. Really wow.

  202. Green Robots

    Michael Fairman, + 100 !!!

  203. Anon Orange

    In case you’re not yet convinced about Feshbach’s negative investing prowess, check this out:
    He recommends four stocks: URI, SIR, PDX, KCI.
    Q: Your portfolio is very concentrated. Why?
    Joe Feshbach: Concentrated investing has been advocated and practiced by many legends of the equity markets, including Warren Buffett, Carl Icahn, Joel Greenblatt and others since time immemorial. We hold six positions today, because we believe that by investing very selectively in very few situations where we have developed specialized expertise, we can significantly outperform over a three- to five-year horizon.
    (That’s not true, investing in ALL stocks through market indices is the safest AND most profitable way to invest. I also know for a fact that Warren Buffett is very diversified)
    But let’s see how well Feshbach’s picks did:
    In early 2008 SIR sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection! Yes Sir, bankrupt!
    PDX is defunct. http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/pdx
    URI was $35 in 2007, now it’s $25, but went to a low of $3.
    KCI was $65 in 2007, now it’s $60, but went to a low of $15.
    I just hope that DM has his personal money invested with Feshbach. Tom Cruise too!

  204. Ingrid, nice! +1

  205. Being a field auditor under the CofM is not viable. Your income and life can be disrupted ay any time by some arbitrary rule or decree by the minions of DM. This was made clear back in the ’80s with the slaughter of the mission network. So, being independent is the only way to sail that ship, like Marty and Trey and many others.

  206. TroubleShooter

    lol – to all the above

  207. Thanks, Cat. Part of our culture got the best of us. There is, in Scientology, a certain military, “suck-it-up” culture streak that comes through, especially in the SO. A really good analogy in pop-culture is the Klingon culture in Star Trek. There is a certain joy and mission in being a warrior for the cause. If you are on staff, a mode of operation is “No Case on Post,” meaning, effectively, “man up and deal with it.” This is a good way to be when you are performing the functions of any job – in the corporate world, it is sometimes called “edge” – as in willingness to make the hard decisions and focusing on the goal, without letting your emotions get in the way. On the other hand, too much “edge” gets us a culture of layoffs and doing anything to raise the bottom line.

    In the PR part of Scn, you have “HE&R” – “Human Emotion and Reaction” – which, by implication, is negative. It is something to bulldoze your way through and get around. Yet, it is also what we address in session, so to treat people who are exhibiting “HE&R” with distain is to treat your public and PCs with distain – that is not very enlightened. I would rather help them.

    This culture is based on truth – we are ultimately the author of our own destiny, and we are responsible for our condition. This concept is very empowering, because we can undo what we did, given help and the right tools. But, you cannot just snap out of it at the wave of a wand. Ron tried the “One Shot Clear” thing back in the ’50s, and it was an elusive goal. (By the way, this is the true humor of R2-45 – the frustration of going for the “one shot clear.” Just shoot him and he’ll exteriorize, all right!) If you can entertain the concept of past lives, it took eons to get into this mess you are in. Going “poof!” is not going to make it all go away. It takes work.

    The EXACT other half of the Klingon culture is the nurturing and caring culture. It is an amazing dichotomy. Every effective auditor I ever knew was a true joy to be in session with, and they deeply cared for you. They worked for you, and were rooting for you. Most of my auditing was done by students and in co-audits. The students were on course, going for their course completion and certification – and yet, they were not there to get through the course when we were in session, they were there for me. In every case, the auditor I had finished the grade and action on me, even after graduating from the course. This is because it is the right thing to do. And because they cared. I did the same with my PCs.

    The PURPOSE of Scientology is to raise people up. This means everyone, at all levels.

  208. Thanks, D. While it is unfortunate that DM is still in there, and it would have been a nice present for LRH to have the usurper out of there, I had no problem making good that bet!

  209. GH, you nailed it here on so many counts. If it was a rant, it was a brilliant rant!

    I especially agree with your take on “Illegal PCs”. I always considered that policy to be something of a cave-in to the litigiousness of the current culture. The more people you try to take responsibility for, the more likely it becomes that someone somewhere will fall through the cracks. There will be botched cases. It is inevitable. The wrong thing to do is throw them under the bus, or otherwise try to offload and not-is them. Psychiatry has failed cases, suicides etc, every day. It’s never held against them. We are held to a different standard. That is a rant for another day however.

    I also agree 100% with what you said about the relationship between decades-long not-isness (abuse and neglect) of the body and subsequent development of cancer. I’ll probably take another hit from RJ on that one, but it just seems so blatantly obvious – sort of like “First Dynamic O/W 101”, impossible to deny.

  210. Watchful Navigator

    Awesome comment, Grasshopper.

    Love the way you laid that truth out there.

    This is such a good statement of the fundamental problem with the culture that has developed under MisSavage’s direction, with so many having adopted his “no-sympathy” valence as a shoddy substitute for actual, genuine “toughness”.

    It’s really all about HELP, and that element has been suppressed for too long.

  211. TroubleShooter

    Funny you should mention Dennis Clarke…another casualty of the cob machine. He’s destitute, suffering crippling effects of a stroke, out of health care benefits and living in his car in Hawaii. Last news was that he’s had no help from anyone and a few strays from the herd have been seeking to raise some money on their own origination to help him.

    I don’t know what he did to piss of the cob but he disappeared from view years ago and like so many former faces of the church became non-entities…

    People don’t matter, individuals don’t matter. The only contributions that matter require a deposit slip and even those stats expire within a few days if you can’t come up with more. The machine is programmed to move on to new targets but only after their final reg tool used, introversion. Help? What’s that? Have you ever been in dire need of assists after a fall or an illness and tried to get such help from your local church or field members?! I know of a few instances of people stepping up to BE Scientologists, real ones, in such times but for the most part it’s – cricket, cricket. I wonder if Dennis knows that he didn’t get to where he is all by himself – it took HELP to get him to where he is today, help in the form of betrayals. I hope he gets to the point where he discovers the importance of assigning ownership for actions and events with a high level of responsibility. Only then will the scene begin to improve.

    “It’s the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing. It’s the bank that says we must fail.” LRH, KSW#1

  212. GH, you are on fire today. This is a beautiful, absolutely accurate post.

  213. Thanks, Michael. I am ashamed to say I had a similar attitude when I was younger. I was a hard-core libertarian as well, and I drank deep the draught of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged.” It fit in – let the bums go down. Let the old folks float off on ice floes since they are no longer able to produce.

    This is the attitude of a young man who has not lived and seen the world, and who lives in a strong, healthy body that can move mountains, as I could when I was younger. It is the attitude of someone who has no real responsibilities and who can indeed live in hollow logs or in poor quarters and not feel too bad about it. It is the attitude of someone who, while being fully capable, strong, ready, and willing to work, never lived though a situation where there are no jobs available no matter how good he is, and who never had to look at his wife and child and wonder where they were going to end up. (I imagine one reason actors and musicians tend to be “liberal” is that no matter how good they are, there are only so many TV shows, movies, plays, and record deals).

    It is the attitude of a child, basically. For me, it changed when I started living and observing, and stopped being so self-centered.

    People are good. Every one has a story. They can be helped, and they should be helped.

  214. Well, exactly. That’s what pissed me off about Clarke’s answer. And what pissed me off about the “illegal PC” policy.

  215. There is one thing I would like to learn from Joe Feshbach, and that is, how to develop the raw nerve to continue to show my face in public and (apparently successfully) continue to promote my “investment” prowess after having lost billions of other people’s money over the last 30 years.

    Talk about Terminators or Energizer bunnies. These guys (Feshbachs) have ZERO shame. It might be worth a trip to Austin just to see someone that Bat Shit Crazy in person.

  216. Thanks, V. For whatever reason, “crazy” became a medical condition, rather than a spiritual or existential condition. I know for a fact that there are therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists who are there to genuinely help people. So, it is not an up-or-down thing. To me it is a distraction to focus on bringing down psychiatry – especially without providing the alternative. The museum in Hollywood is a LIE – not because there was and is significant brutality afflicted by psychiatrists, but because not all psychiatrists and not all of the mental health professionals fall into that camp. It is demonstrably NOT TRUE.

    On top of all that, how can we argue with someone like Dick Cavet or Mike Wallace who claim how much good ECT has done for them, and how they have been helped? It is a losing argument. This is why Tom Cruise’s speech to Matt Lauer is so ridiculed and came off so badly. IT IS NOT TRUE. Not 100%. It makes no sense to argue with it.

    The only thing to do is to do what LRH has been saying all along: Do Scientology. Do it right, and for everyone. Make it available to all.

    And, also, to promote and encourage true help, no matter who does it.

  217. Par for the course, unfortunately. “What have you done for me lately?” How could we have let this fall so low? Isn’t it crazy that we don’t celebrate our heros? I may not have agreed with Clarke in all cases, but he was steadfast.

  218. Valkov,

    To me, it seemed that CCHR and the Church were never able to openly admit and come to grips with the actual reforms that the field of mental health had undergone between the 1950s/1960s through the 1990s/2000s. And for that reason, they aren’t able to argue or debate logically when faced with valid questions.

    The problem with Wiseman’s book and the Museum of Death are not that they are technically “lying” — it’s the data that’s omitted. They are propaganda, by omitted facts. To any intelligent observer, it’s clear that the author (or museum creator) has a pre-conceived agenda, and is not interested in being balanced, looking at all the evidence, and considering things in perspective or in historical context.

    With all that said, I’m not giving psychiatry or the pharmaceutical industry or all modern “mental health” treatments a pass. I’m not even suggesting that one be “reasonable” with psychiatry, in the Scientology sense. I’m all for protesting and speaking out. But I think the CoM, in its over-the-top extremism and dogmatism against psychiatry, does more foot-bullet damage to Scientology and Scientologists, than it does good. And the result is that even the current non-CCHR anti-psychiatry groups and doctors out there are afraid to ally with CCHR, because CCHR is so clearly controlled by the CoM and has become so extremist and dogmatic.

  219. Joe, The allying with reform-minded psychiatrists continued well into the late 1970s. Heck, even CCHR was co-founded by a psychiatrist (Szasz) in 1969. The managing of CCHR for the last 2-3 decades has been more of a study in dogmatism and kool-aid drinking, than anything else, imho.

  220. Joe, I guess I need to clarify my meaning.

    I did not say ‘all psychiatrists are suppressive’. I said that the order psychiatry brings to the area of mental health is low-toned and suppressive. Perhaps I should add ‘relatively’ suppressive. Psychiatric ‘tech’ is low-toned and relatively suppressive. It is all based on ‘controlling bodies’ and even ‘punishing bodies’. Or think around 1.2 on the tone scale. Think ‘police force’. That’s basically what psychiatry is. Police are also relatively suppressive. Both police and psychiatry operate on stopping things.

    That does not mean, and I do not mean, that all policepersons or all psychiatrists are SPs. They are not. Please don’t read that into what I said in my post.

    An entire profession or an entire ‘milieu’ can be suppressive or have suppressive tendencies. An example off the top of my head – a college fraternity that goes in for heavy degrading hazing of pledges while the pledges are drunk. That’s suppressive. It happens not infrequently. Every year some fraternities are suspended for it. It also happens to be the very definition of PDH.

    I hope that clarifies where I’m coming from.

  221. TroubleShooter

    agreed on all points Grasshopper

  222. PS: Marty, you wrote above…..”read the proposed legislation to see whether my analysis is unreasonable. Here is a “church” of Scientology emergency call to arms in the year 2011:”
    A) This is not a CHURCH emergency call to arms. It is CCHR Texas. So you have the wrong target.
    B) CCHR Texas is following exactly what LRH said to do.
    C) YES, your analysis is unreasonable. Like I said earlier, it is NOT CCHR’s hat to set up things like suicide call lines. The way you presented this thing on STOPPING the bill makes it look like you are saying it is suppressive. That’s just nuts Marty. If it wasn’t for CCHR “stopping” a lot of bills, the psych’s would have even MORE of a field day than they already have. Even LRH himself worked on STOPPING the Siberia bill a long time ago. So go back and READ the LRH references Marty.

  223. Joe, ever wonder why LRH said that the psych’s are the SOLE cause of decline in this universe? And that they destroyed every great civilization on the track and are hard at work destroying this one???

  224. Good point One Of Those Who See. It would be a good thing for VM’s to do. Like I said earlier more than once, it is not CCHR’s hat.

  225. Howard Roark

    That is quite interesting. Wonder how anyone would explain that to Ron.

  226. Dutch households saving more, spending modestly
    The greek goverment lied to the European union about the state of their finances. And they have been doing that since the day they went into the Euro zone.

  227. Howard Roark

    “The IAS is the membership for the Scientology Religion. ”

    I noticed that on their website. Interesting.

    The IAS is destroying Scientology.

  228. The Irish dream big, perhaps too big
    “The developers and the bankers ruined this country. They pushed up prices. And then, what was the government doing? They haven’t a clue. The guy who is head of Ireland’s financial affairs is a former schoolteacher. I’ve got nothing against schoolteachers, but what does he know of finance? And he’s over there negotiating with the Germans.

    “The Germans know what they’re doing. They don’t want to finance our mistakes. And who can blame them?”

  229. Mike, I really do see it as putting their ethics in. And if they try to circumvent the operation of the law, then we’ll just keep going at it until they MUST get their ethics in and change how they behave.

  230. “Miscavige’s training level and how he hit a pc”

    What? Hit a PC!

    I missed that one. When did that happen!

    Is that the auditor’s handbook upside-down or what?

  231. Joe,
    Having written the above clarification, I see I can make some further differentiations. What I wrote applies most clearly to psychiatric institutions and the psychiatrists who work in them.

    Actually, the whole of psychiatry in the USA at least, breaks down into several zones, much as ‘scientology’ activity does. There are psychiatrists who are ‘independents’ and ‘freezoners’. Many of them. Most psychiatrists prefer to have a private practice rather than be working in an institution. Or they may combine consulting or teaching with a private practice. Some do research.

    So there really is a wide gamut there, and some psychiatrists are enlightened and helpful people. But remember that they are all products of the institutional educational system. and much of the research they are involved into day is brain research. For example, Transcranial Magnetic Brain Stimulation has been tested for a variety of what are viewed as “neurological disorders’, including depression. Research tends towards looking for physical ways to control people’s ‘minds’, by electricity, implanting electrodes etc. Magnetic fields are used to induce very small electrical flows in the brains of subjects. It’s all about ‘controlling bodies’. “Biological psychiatrists”, who are the dominant breed in research and teaching in the USA and Canada do not believe in the existence or importance of the mind as such. They operate on the idea that MEST(the brain) is senior to, and is actually the source of, considerations.

    To rise above that, and many do, they have to leave the education they get behind and move out into private practice where they can develop and follow their own ideas or other ideas. However I believe the idea that ‘the brain thinks’, prevalent in society today, comes from psychiatry. Previous generations of psychiatrists were psychoanalytically oriented and more inclined to think in terms of mind, emotion, and ‘psychic energy’ than today’s ‘biopsychiatrists’.

  232. Forgot to include this link to Wikipedia about TMS:


  233. I hear you Ingrid and don’t disagree with your POV.

    However the ‘cherry-picking’ I mentioned was already going on back in the 1970s by some individuals even on the public level as well as some in orgs. They were basically literal-minded black-and-white thinking people who just weren’t uptone enough to differentiate very well and latched on to LRH quotes they then used as blunt instruments with which they made others wrong.

    I agree with you that it is some “scientologists” who need to understand LRH and scientology better. Case in point is anyone who is still in the CoS, no? Those who can parrot the catechism without understanding what they are saying, those are the kind I mean. These existed from the start and were already ‘cherry-picking’ LRH to make others wrong instead of granting beingness. Those kind were already around pre-DM, in the 1970s. Now they are the ones who ‘sig heil’ DM.

    The ones I noticed back in the ’70s were not necessarily ‘bad people’, (although I am willing to believe a few might have been), but they were not very high toned, not very brave, and not very bright.

    Unlike today’s Independents and those Scientologists who did ‘get it’ from the start. 🙂

  234. Howard Roark


    Read the links thanks. This data is of primary importance. Wish the mainstream media would run with this.

    Where is Bob Woodward when you need him?

  235. The Count,

    I am not Marty, but do you feel CCHR is still wearing it’s hat and following it’s purpose?

    Because as I posted upstream, I believe CCHR was emasculated by DM several years ago, precisely because it was effective at spotting and blowing the whistle on human rights abuses, and posed the threat that it would turn it’s eyes on the abuses of DM and the CoS itself. The IAS then stopped providing CCHR grant money. Well,who tells the IAS what to do?

    Back when LRH ‘stopped’ the Alaska bill there was still a realistic hope that scientology could and would provide an alternative to psychiatric care as it existed then. I have no such hope for the immediate future, as authentic Scientology is just beginning to get itself together outside the CoS. And of course the CoS has no alternative to offer.

    Now I think CCHR is a shadow of it’s former self and possibly just a puppet of DM and the CoS.

    This is the devil’s choice here – stop the bill and have no care for these people, or let the bill pass and have care that is far from optimum but possibly better than no care at all?


    I am Marticus.

  236. Yeah I agree. Unfortunately VMs are working 2 and 3 jobs to keep up with the donations programs they “must contribute to” and also pay for the sec checks they must get in order to supposedly ‘go up the Bridge’ at Flag.

    But I don’t disagree with your Ideal Scene at all.

    Looks like you and I really have our work cut out for us.

  237. LRH said in lecture he selected psychs out as an opponent kinda arbitrarily. And the reason he knew what they were about was because he had been one back on his track.

    However, he also called them ‘priests’. And he wrote much material about their characteristics so we could identify them better.

    So you tell me, is every psychiatrist also a ‘psych’ in LRH’s meaning of the word?

    Do you think every person who went to medical school and specialized in psychiatry, is automatically one of the 2.5% of anti-social personalities? Just because they are called a ‘psychiatrist’ by education?

  238. I wish Marty would run with it. If open discussion on this occured, who know what would suddenly appear. There are people here who have knowledge in the area.

  239. “Truth Revealed” about Joe Feshbach.

  240. Scott Campbell

    Hey man,

    I’ve been getting my “buy’s” and “by’s” mixed up too lately. What the hell is goin’ on here?

  241. Scott Campbell


    Great ref. Congrats on your imminent graduate!

    L, Scott

  242. I’ll tell you something else Count. The Church is all against psych drugs until they need them to solve a problem. When I was at the base a woman went type three and after too much resources were spent on her, she was doped up, and escorted on the airplane back to her country by the chaplain.

  243. The message has shifted from “Clear the planet” to “stop the psychs”.
    If we had boomed Scientology the rest would have been handled.
    Failing to boom Scientology, starting with DM wiping out the Mission Network, we had to start to stop instead of create. Making Scientology wanted and needed is the solution. NOT making psychiatry unwanted and needed. And, you know what CCHR’s stat is? Do you know? It is G.I. from donations.

  244. CCHR is a Church begging unit just like the I.A.S.

  245. Actually it is now but when it was founded in ’69 its purpose was to get ethics in on the Psychiatric Community using Dr. Thomas Szasz as its opinion leader.

    CCHR was actually accomplishing that purpose quite well until the “SO moved in” and took over CCHR Int then it became an extension of the IAS.

    Always regging for money and really doing nothing in exchange except that stupid psychiatric side show called the “Museum of Shame” or whatever.

    Like the VM program after IAS took over.

    It became nothing but a continuous Feel Good Photo op.

    Nothing but PR.

    Of course it appeals to the limo libs who can pretend they are contributing to a “good cause” while really doing nothing.

  246. RJ — the IAS hasnt taken over CCHR or VMs or anythng else. They leech off them like they leech off the orgs. They simply use them to get photo ops and then use that to reg. Ever struck you as odd that while the IAS claims “credit” for CCHR activities and is collecting millions a week, CCHR are also out begging for money? If the IAS was funding their activities how come they are begging? Why does IHELP beg people to “sponsor” a VM to be sent to the latest relief effort? The IAS gves these (and the ABLE programs and the Dissemination programs) a pittance for show and to create photo ops. The IAS could not take over anything. And as for the Sea Org “taking over” CCHR — no more than the GO “took over” CCHR? It was under the GO, not doing much of anything, and when the GO became OSA it fell under OSA, but was never SO.

  247. A lot has changed since 1969.

  248. I can see you are passionate about this and it is coming from a good place in your heart. I don’t want to destroy the “psych” demons for lack of drama. But to say THEY are the SOLE cause of decline robs everyone else of any responsibility. I don’t believe Hubbard wrote that. And if he thought like that it was a different Hubbard than the one who made Scientology pop and put people at cause point. This directly conflicts with numerous other writings. Right now the only people I see as sole cause of decline are the ones enabling David Miscavige and supporting his efforts to destroy Scientology. Right there under our own roof, not somewhere “way way over there” that is an old Carnival trick.
    Beyond that Ron said in a tape, and someone here would know which one, maybe anatomy of cause? — His game with the psychs was just his own little bit of side randomity. That is what his voice said.

  249. Now I could be wrong about this next thing I’m going to say. Because it only adds up in the math. But I would bet if you go back and trace this policy letter where Hubbard supposedly says the phsyc caused it all, (blame), you go back and date that “incredible new policy”…and you will find it came out suddenly when the Church took over CCHR and set up these beggar teams.
    Yeah…let’s see about that.

  250. Mike,

    I was there when the SO took over CCHR Int and replaced the ED with an SO bot and got rid of most of the staff.

    It was just after we took out NME and Peter Dox formed a coalition to kill Hillory Clinton’s Health Care plan.

    I don’t know where you were Mike but under the GO CCHR did a pretty good job at keeping the excesses of Psychiatry at bay.

    A trend that continued even under OSA.

    Reason being was that many of the staff were former psychiatric patients.

    When the SO took over they basically terminated these people because they were not staff qualled and illegal PCs.

  251. Thanks Mike. I know I’m late posting here but do appreciate the info on IAS and SEF. I remember giving $ to the SEF and wondered then if LRH knew about it. I got lots of questions accumulated from my 40 years as a Scientologist. Thanks for some answers.

  252. Fat Freddy

    You see what happens. Even if a country like Germany prospers
    they are forced to cover the debts of the downstats. Germany in fact
    covers 120 billions (from a total of 750 billions) of the EU emergency chute. Bankers always make sure they get their money back. If one refuses the next war is coming soon. Hitler refused to pay the reparations which were agreed in the Versailles contract,the compensation for all damage done in the First world war…….

  253. Well RJ, here we go again. Where was I? On the GO “takeover” missions, first to WW (after having done the first SO Mission to GO Legal WW to put some sanity into the horrendous disasters being created in the civil damages cases in the US that were sucking LRH into the litigation at a dsastrous rate — including the GO accepting service on his behalf). I was then in Legal OSA Int and CO OSA US. I did the eval on the terrible state of CCHR at the time, crossed cash bills and terribly disorganized. CCHR US was is a tiny storefront on Fountain Ave with 3 part time staff. So not sure what “staff were gotten rid of” or who the “”SO bot” was that you say took over. Fred Ulan? CCHR had been decimated following an eval done by Bill Franks as ED Int who said the church should be maintaining friendly relations with the environment, so attacking psychs was a wrong target. NME was closed down many years after the “takeover.” Who are you referrng to when you say MANY of the staff were former psychatric patients? The only one I know was Jan Eastgate in Australia? The closing of Chelmsford and expsure of the horrors of deep sleep therapy was real CCHR activity — it was why she was brought to be the head of CCHR Int in later years.

  254. Joe Howard

    Speaking of ideal locations (as written by LRH), Sweden’s Malmö Org was once located right on the city’s central square, kittycorner to City Hall. It was 500 meters from the train station. There were people everywhere all day long. Foot traffic heaven. The Div 6ers would simply greet passengers coming off the train and stuff a DMSMH into their hands and the CF went from a few hundred to more than 30,000, where it has remained for 25 years. Today, the Ideal Org Malmö is located in an old sugar factory outside of Malmö in an industrial suburb with absolutely zero foot traffic. But someday that building will be ideal for the marketing firm for Sweden’s armaments industry. (That is about how warm and inviting it looks.)

  255. Joe Howard

    Just read a report that listed Australia and Canada as the top two countries in terms of the citizenries’ feelings of well being. Sweden was third. The Int Base was dead last, just behind North Korea.

  256. Joe Howard

    Agreed 100%, Centurion. The Constitution grants Congress the power to “coin money and regulate the value thereof.” So, how the hell could the U.S. be in debt? I sure never would be if I could coin the money I needed. (Of course, I’m not in debt anyway. No money = no debts!)

    BTW, the Fed’s charter is up for renewal in 2013. If not renewed by Congress, it will expire. And wouldn’t that be a great day?

  257. Joe Howard

    The Palo Alto Mission was in a nice location on El Camino Real about a mile from my home. The building had a “For Lease” sign on it one day and shortly thereafter someone told me that it is now located in a U Store It type facility. Bit of a change from the days of Phil Spickler, Sarge Gerbode and John Brodie.

  258. He did not say that. There are people out there who are dedicated to subjugation and control of other people, and they will use whatever tools and guises they need to forward their purposes. Thus, we have evil priests, evil medical doctors, evil politicians, and guys like DM.

    None of this condemns religion, medicine, or even psychiatry.

  259. Valkov, the difference between the ’60s and ’70s and now is that LRH was on hand to put the ship back on course. He did that a lot. He is not here now, and we are on our own. We are, as Scientologists, finally taking on that responsibility via the Independent Movement.

  260. Mike,

    I never was in CCHR back then.

    I thought I made this clear in my earlier posts.

    I was at CCHR Int in the early 90’s when Tanya Baboa was the ED

    Our office was in an Office Building on Hollywood Bivd just across the street from the HGB near Ivar.

    Not anywhere near Fountain Ave.

    In a highly secure basement office that was called “the bunker”.

    And yes quite a number of staff there were former psyche patients.

    I know this because I audited them as Staff Staff Auditor.

    Bob Kosal was my Case Supervisor.

    It was Tanya and her team that shut down NME.

    Jan Eastgate had nothing to do with that.

    I was there when the FBI Task Force took over the case and transfered our files to their offices in two white vans.

    I also audited our Washington lobbyist who set up the coalition to stop Hillory’s Health Care plan.

    Just over a year after that Fran Andrews (?) who signed an SO contract and took over.

    And at that point all staff who weren’t SO or HCO qualled were terminated.

    So you are talking about two different periods of time here Mike.

    So you are right Mike.

    Here we go again!

    We seem to be talking about two different periods of time.

    Also I happen to have a lot of bypassed charge on this “know all” attitude that Int had back then when in reality they knew nothing.

    Things would run along fine until Int got in there and changed everything.

    This was what happened at AO a few years earlier when they got rid of the Non SO staff there.

    I was there as well.

    Are you going to dispute this point?

  261. RJ,

    You started out talking about how the SO had taken over and destroyed CCHR which had been doing so well under the GO. That was in the 80’s and now you are saying you are talking about the 90’s?

    I said nothing about Jan Eastgate being involved in NME, I said she is the only CCHR person I knew who was a former psych patient.

    No dispute about the NSOs being kicked out of the SO orgs — again, I dont know that it was a good thing, but I do believe that handling was implemented as a result of a stat analysis response where LRH directed that be done (it was described in Flag Orders and back then in order to change something like that it requred approval or orders from LRH).

  262. Mike,

    I was only referring to it as historical background data because of your claim that CCHR never did much of anything under the GO which is contrary facts.

    CCHR under the GO and as part of the AntiPsychiatry movement led by Dr. Thomas Szasz actually accomplished quite a lot including effectively knocking out the use of ECT, lobotomies and transorbital leukotomies and other barbaric practices and in establishing a Psychiatric Patient’s Bill of Rights and requiring informed consent by the patient of any treatment.

    What you wrote seems like sour grapes of some kind to me.

    I also know that the GO managed to infiltrate SMERSH or the WFMH and had agents giving them intel on their plans for world domination.

    Information that was used to expose their secret meetings.

    Now all OSA and CCHR does is claim they no longer exist which is utter BS:


    I don’t know where the idea that Ron was opposed to Non SO being hired in SO service orgs with the exception of Flag.

    In fact he wrote a FO recommending that SHs and AOs hire their students on their Class VI or Class VIII course that we all had to high crime before being hired on.

    And was one of the key reasons why Saint Hill became Saint Hill sized.

    There was never any restriction on hiring Non-SO until the ol’man departed and both AOLA and ASHO were booming back then even when 60-75% of their technical staff were *Non SO*.

    It was the idiotic know best morons at Int who destroyed AO and ASHO by demanding all technical staff had to be SO.

    Even after it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it was us Non SO who contributed to AO and ASHO day going Saint Hill size!

    Talk about a WTF? moment!

    Neither AO or ASHO have recovered since that arbitrary order was issued that crossed ordered the original FOs on hiring Non SO.

    Personally I doubt very much that the Ol’man anything to do with that orgacide!

  263. Kevin Bloody Mackey

    LRH said in the tape “The five conditions” that in the state of emergency one had to discipline them selves or the environment would do so most savagely and cruelly. Well a lot more conditions have been discovered since then a a lot was written on ethics and justice too. The fact is the CofS is going the way of the dinosaur. Their behaviour has been socially deplorable for a long time and it isn’t getting better, it’s now come under the notice of the Australian Government and it’s many departments, this is not going away, but I think the CofS is.

  264. Just to make things worse, he he he he, there is this:

    1. (Individual Sports, other than specified) Sport: the situation in which a player or team in an eliminatory contest wins a preliminary round by virtue of having no opponent
    2. (Individual Sports & Recreations) Golf: one or more holes of a stipulated course that are left unplayed after the match has been decided
    3. (Team Sports / Cricket) Cricket: a run scored off a ball not struck by the batsman: allotted to the team as an extra and not to the individual batsman See also leg bye
    4. something incidental or secondary
    by the bye incidentally; by the way: used as a sentence connector
    [a variant of by]

  265. I had to go “bye” and missed this earlier by


    “If you read something you didn’t know, or it perks your interest, always verify via established sources before you assume you have learned anything.”

    Verifying is good and I am all for verifying SunnyV, but “established sources” aren’t always correct either.
    In fact one can find they have not examined data their own data passed down from others, including professors who live in Ivory Towers and accept false data that they then pass onto others—or have their own misunderstoods. So you can’t merely appeal to authority either. That’s a logical fallacy.

    I assure you I haven’t always taken LRH’s data immediately at face value either, but sought to verify myself. His words are what got me looking at what some “established sources” had claimed in the first place. Afterwards, I began with examining them carefully with my own observations as well as using his reference on “Propaganda by Re-Definition of Words.” So far his words have guided me well, plus my own personal experience in business while I researched economics, money and banking. I am by no means done either.

    You may not have been signaling me out alone, but I just thought I’d clarify because I felt included. I do need cite the LRH references even if I get them up late. I see someone has done one already.

  266. RJ you’re totally welcome! Robert A. Heinlein was one smart man! I grew up reading his stories for “juveniles” as well as his fiction and essays for adults. In fact his novels usually contain some great essays in the dialogues between the characters.
    He was a contemporary of Hubbard’s, along with a lot of other very intelligent sci-fi writers.
    I gotta pick up another copy of “For Us, The Living”. I gave my copy away to my friend’s son who is a Libertarian now living in New Hampshire.
    The economic theory and ‘demo kit’ he describes in it blew me away!

  267. Not really,

    Will still drive cars that consume fossil fuels.

    Fight idiotic wars for no reason other than to fuel those cars or other Real Politik issues.

    Still have morons who don’t know how to Govern.

    A Federal Reserve and a Banking System that is robbing us blind.

    Institutional Psychiatry and Psychology in league with Government trying to alter our perception of reality.

    What has changed?

    Except that now we have the internet FKA the ARPAnet.

    Betcha the elitists in Government are ruing the day they let that cat out of the bag.

    Now no matter how much they try they still haven’t been able to walk back the cat on that one.

    They’re are about as effective as their friends in OSA.

  268. On FLourish and Prosper promo, it says at very bottom small print “head count required at start of event”. Does that mean if not enough people show, that Joe will not come from right around the corner or something?

    On the Legislative Alert, at the top is says NOT to forward to your Congressmen etc. I hope somebody DOES forward the thing to EVERY Congressmen and a couple copies to the IRS and FBI please.

    Thank you.

  269. Oracle, sorry for taking so long to reply. Been extremely busy. In fact LRH DID write it. Here is the exact quote: “Under the false data of the psychs (who have been on the track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe) both pain and sex are gaining ground in this society and, coupled with robbery which is a hooded companion of both, may very soon make the land a true jungle of crime.” From HCOB HCOB 26 Aug 82 Pain and Sex
    Besides the above mentioned bulletin, LRH also wrote many many policies and bulletins exposing the psych’s and how dangerous and useless they are.

  270. Really Grasshopper? He didn’t say it? Read this: “Under the false data of the psychs (who have been on the track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe) both pain and sex are gaining ground in this society and, coupled with robbery which is a hooded companion of both, may very soon make the land a true jungle of crime.” From HCOB 26 Aug 82 Pain and Sex

    Also, I have a question for you Grasshopper. Why are you so “reasonable” about the psych’s?

  271. Yes Valkov, I do think “most” psychiatrists are suppressive. In fact, they are the dregs of medical schools. I’ve worked on the front lines fighting their atrocities and met many in person, and have seen the damage they do. I realize it might be incomprehensible if you have never been up close and personal with them, but LRH didn’t write the numerous policies and HCOB’s damning them for no reason. Who do you think were the first attackers of LRH and Scientology way back in the 50’s? (Right after DMSMH was published they went berserk). I suggest you first find and read all the stuff LRH wrote about them, and then walk into just ONE mental institution and see for yourself. Also, look around at society. MILLIONS of kids on psych drugs (and millions more adults) for INVENTED “disorders”. The psych’s DSM (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual) has dozens of disorders. And then there are dozens of drugs to handle these so-called disorders. And it gets worse every year. In fact, they VOTE on what the next disorder will be at their annual APA convention.

    LRH also made it very clear in this article he wrote in 1969 called Today’s Terrorism:
    “While Western countries are spending billions fighting terrorist activities abroad they are neglecting the one they have at home. The psychiatrist and his front groups operate straight out of the terrorist textbooks. The Mafia looks like a convention of Sunday school teachers compared to these terrorist groups.

    Setting himself up as a terror symbol, the psychiatrist kidnaps, tortures and murders without any slightest police interference or action by Western security forces.

    Instead these forces attack churches and peaceful, decent social groups under the direct orders of these terrorists.

    Rape is rape, torture is torture, murder is murder. There are no laws that let even a medical doctor do these things.

    A psychiatrist kills a young girl for sexual kicks, murders a dozen patients with an ice pick, castrates a hundred men. And they give him another million appropriation.

    One can only conclude that psychiatric terrorism is not limited to the families of mental patients. It must extend all the way to the top.

    Extortion, kidnapping, murder—these are crimes. Yet where are the security forces? Thousands of miles away tending to other people’s business.

    Very few people can be brought to testify against psychiatry. Yet 4 out of 5 contacted in a recent U.S. survey had family or friends who had been ruined by psychiatry! They said, in general, “If I spoke up or complained, they’d take it out on my (son, friend, relative).”

    I well recall a conversation I had with a Dr. Center in Savannah, Georgia, in 1949.* It well expresses the arrogance and complete contempt for law and order of the psychiatrist.

    A man had just called to inquire after his wife who was “under treatment” in Center’s hospital. Center asked him, “Do you have the money…? That’s right, thirty thousand… well you better get it or I’ll have to send your dear wife to the state institution and you know what will happen then!”

    I was there doing work on charity patients the local psychiatrists wouldn’t touch. Center had forgotten I was in the room.

    He looked at me and shrugged, “He’s sold his house, car and business already and he isn’t good for any more. So over she goes to the operating room. It’s just as well. The attendants got her pregnant and we’ll have to abort her anyway. So we may as well wash her out. Hell of a business to be in for some quick bucks and a few kicks.”

    Thousands and thousands are seized without process of law every week over the “free” world, tortured, castrated, killed. All in the name of “mental health.”

    Terrorists never operated more effectively in any land with less interference and less outcry.

    The evil is so great the public won’t confront it. 1984 here we come! ”

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