It’s Safe to be a Scientologist in Germany

Update videos courtesy of Hamburg Anons:

Incidentally, the Hamburg Anons have been nothing but helpful and friendly.

The church of Scientology’s total contribution to date has been a literal dramatization of the Spanish Inquisition which Mosey caught a glimpse of on our way into the Ministry of the Interior:

441 responses to “It’s Safe to be a Scientologist in Germany

  1. You go, Marty!!!!!!!

  2. George M. White

    Very well done, Marty.
    Nice confront.
    It’s going to get very interesting now.
    Much loving-kindness,

  3. So cool Marty. This made me smile from ear to ear. 😀

  4. Sun Tzu by the book.

  5. I don’t think this is anything new. The German government has never had an issue with the FreeZone, just the Church of Scientology.

  6. Little by little people find out about the benefits of the tech and they are also finding out about the independent field. Good job Marty!!! The Independent field will continue to grow and get enormous support bith in and out of the field.

    C of M is being EXPOSED Daily at a rapid fire rate. His tactics and antics no longer work!

    The constant forcing, harassment and take the members money at all cost is coming to an end.

    Freedom at last!!

    Keep on exposing the madness and build the Independent field!!!

  7. Impartial English Girl

    That’s top stuff! Compare this clip to the inane and, frankly, embarrassing twaddle spouted by Tom Cruise on the widely-leaked and parodied “Meal of Honour” speech (the one with the sh*tty ‘Mission Impossible’ twanging in the background) – and they are entire universes apart. Glad that, seemingly, the press conference went so well.

    IEG x

  8. That’s great news. VWD Marty!!!!!

  9. Absolutely fantastic!

  10. Very nice, Marty. This communicates very clearly that there is an alternative to the oppressive organization that the CoS has become and directs the government attention away from “scientologists” and toward the corporation and its practices that violate human and civil rights of people who come into contact with it. It is interesting to me that Corporate Scientology’s response has been to ramp up, or continue to defend, the very things that people are repeatedly pointing out as offensive, illegal or immoral.

  11. keep on rocking in a free world, super stuff eat your heart out anti free-zone peoples, thank you for you direction and purpose.

  12. Germanic history is filled with the story of fierce resistance to being subjegated by others. The Romans learned this lesson, having never fully conquered the Germanic tribes.

    I think the DM church is being taught the same lesson. Germany can have Scientology, just not DM’s iron thug version of it.

    I look foward to more from Germany.

    DM must be melting those copper rods this day.

  13. Great Work Marty.
    Also good on exposing Church propaganda and lies on Ursula ~~ when one can see more of the picture as seen on the video.
    I never cease to be amazed at how I swallowed the Church’s LIES LIES LIES on “those big bad SPs” who, it turns out are decent human beings trying to right the humongous Church crimes.

  14. Wow !!! Wow !!! WOW!!

  15. Marty, that’s a great soundbite. (And Mosey?), great videography. 🙂

  16. VVGIs here, Marty. I liked how Caberta was nodding in agreement to everything you were saying.

  17. A very effective, clear, and to the point, presentation.

  18. Tony Ortega — First Video from Germany: Ex-Scientology Exec Marty Rathbun On Meeting with Ursula Caberta

  19. Before any more people ruin themselves financially to ‘protect the Scientology’ I hope they go on line and see who the real enemy is and escape.
    Go Marty!

  20. I think the differentiation that Marty is doing here is brilliant, strategic and completely necessary.
    Assumed similiarities are not similiar; assumed identities are not identical.

  21. Who is Lombar Hisst ?

    i hope Marty´s acitvities will change the situation for all scientologist here in Germany for the better.

    Is there more to come ?

  22. John Fennessey

    Its ironic that the German Government, who has been painted by the church as anti-scientology, would allow the free practice of scientology outside of the church’s control and that it is THE CHURCH ITSELF that has a problem with Independents. Quite telling when you think about it.

  23. Tony DePhillips

    AMAZING MARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Was that Mrs. Cabarta sitting next to you?? If so this is HUGE!!!! It’s huge either way, but the lady sitting next to you seemed to be in high ARC with you while you were saying some very good things.

  24. Wonderful news! You are continuing to do Great Work, Marty!


  26. Honestly, I’m sitting here crying tears of joy. I’m so proud of you, Marty and Mosey, proud beyond words!

  27. Marty, Mosey and Ursula Caberta:

  28. Brilliant !!

  29. So, in effect the evil witch, enchantress, SSSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPP, Mrs. Caberta and the equally SSSSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPP Hamburg authorities have a problem with the exact same things Scientologists object to – to wit – the cancellation of the Reform Codes by David Miscavige and the re-introduction of enforced disconnection, fair game and the pounding down of individuals for various and sundry things that are completely and utterly OFF LRH policy!!!!

    Wow, who would have imagined that communication would resolve a ridge. Imagine that. Holy cats! Now THERE is some ‘lost tech’ Dave. But you are the one obfuscating it now aren’t you.

  30. Cheers, Marty! Cheers Scobee! Cheers Rinder!

    Bed Man, thinks you guys kick major asphalt!

  31. DM must be having epileptic hissy fits with bouts of extreme diarrhea and upchucks seeing you sit next to her, with her nodding in agreement to what you’re saying. Who knows, maybe the end result will be that the official CofS will be banned but Independent Scientology declared legal in Germany and with that precedent other European countries will follow. Chew on that one all mighty one!

  32. top of the vale

    Marty, this is an extremely VERY WELL DONE!!!!

    I must admit that altho’ I had taken the Co$ side against Germany and Ms. Caberta, I can see that I was wrong. The abuses that RCS has imposed on its members over the years has been nothing short of Gestapo antics, something the German Gov’t will not and should not tolerate coming into being ever again.

    We are all very glad that you are defining a difference between LRH’s brand of a Scientologist and the RCS’s non – LRH brand.

    You are and will do well there for all of this Planet’s Scientologists.

  33. Very well done Marty! Keep up the good work!

  34. Not to deny the importance of this, but I haven’t seen it posted anywhere:

    Marty… who is it you are talking to?
    Are you addressing the German PM? Parliment-like body?

    I have no doubt that this is huge, and I do applaude the guts it takes to speak out at this level. I just am curious exactlly what level we are talking about.

    Good luck and continued best wishes! Safe travels and hope you are finding just a LITTLE peace while you are over there! You deserve a break!

    Looking forward to hearing more about this.

  35. What’s new is, Scientologists used to defend the “church.”

    It’s getting harder to say that these days.

  36. Izhar Perlman - Lisbon

    Nice to feel the TA blowing down and SEE that this indicates to the “declared enemies” of Scientology. Fantastic achievement Marty. You rock!

  37. Marty, my gawd outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!! I am soooooooooooo happy! thank you, thank you. Love Carol

  38. I think I see smoke in the direction of Gilman Hot Springs. (Someones head exploding)

    Whatever else comes of this trip, the Independent Field will be more widely known. I see more defections in the near future as more dissatisified Scientologists recognize there is an alternative to the Church’s monopoly.

    Amy +1

  39. Well said, Marty. You’re lookin’ good kid.

  40. Anything new??? Please don’t make less of this. This is a resolution. The first.

  41. Godspeed………

  42. Tony DePhillips

    It’s very new when the previous “right hand man” is reporting on dm’s abuses. This is VERY new.

  43. I was in the IAS for 6 months. I paid 50,000. I requested my money back.

    No response. Not even a word back acknowledging my request from the IAS.


    How is this possible? How is this not criminal?

    How can I not be entitled to my money back?

  44. Fantastic news on the ability of all concerned to see what is the subject matter of Scientology versus the actions that are found to be anti basic human rights. VWD! Another step up for mankind.

  45. Very nice job, Marty! Finial some good PR for the _subject_ of Scientology and great differentiation of such from the cult. Made my day!

  46. Outstanding! Outstanding!

    Boy do I feel like I was “taken”, tricked, fooled, lied to, by Miscavige and the CoS, about Germany!

    It took a Marty, a REAL Scientologist, to get in comm with them and the truth is revealed! Big reality shift in my universe!


  47. Very well done, Marty. Very understandable by someone who is not a Scn – in or out. A breathe of spiritual and logical fresh air.

    But I feel a little teased, like this is a movie trailer. Is there more? Where were you speaking?

  48. Awesome! This is excellent work.

    People have been trying to lay claim to Scientology since Book 1 was released. The HDRF owned the copyright to Science of Survival until reconciliation in 1955 (hence the Dianetics 55! book). There have been claimants all along. Up until 1986, the core group was the one Ron put together, naturally. After 1986, Ron has not been here to put the stake in the ground (other than what is in the books and in senior policies). DM tried to wear the mantle of the old man, but sadly was not up to the task. The worst thing DM did was identify himself with Scientology. He is NOT Scientology. He is a guy who drunk from the well of power, and lost it. Which is what happens when you try to hold an atom bomb in your hands.

    I have been traveling and extremely busy the last couple of weeks. One of my tasks was to pick up my copies of LRH that have been in storage (we have been moving). I started re-reading my copy of “Handbook for Preclears,” which I bought as a teenager in 1976 (August 12, to be exact – I put it in the book!). In the first chapter is this gem:

    “Amongst the many things Man has done, in his worries about his mind and his state of being, in his effort to control others, is the adoption of slave philosophies. Each person who invents or uses such a philosophy more or less tends to be, himself, exempt from the slavery thus imposed and to hold, by the invention, the force of others nullified. This is a trick of very limited workability for it leads eventually into the entrapment of the user himself. It is a demonstrable law, not an opinion, that he who would enslave his fellows becomes himself enslaved.”

    This very well describes what DM has done. Written in 1951 by the old man. It is very ironic that DM put together a slave philosophy to “protect” Scientology, which is a philosophy based on Freedom! You must give up all your money, all your time, all your family, all of yourself, to save Scientology. How can people who are NOT free protect those that are?

    This is a milestone – Marty is doing great work. We are shedding the mantle of the false valence of “Scientology” and shining through. VWD, brother!

  49. Very, Very Well Done. Having been born in Austria, with relatives still there, and having lived three years in Munich, Germany, it is so wonderful to know that any conflicts with the philosophy of Scientology and the German government can be worked out! And to be done by sitting down and talking, (my, what a novel idea!), and clearing away the differences between the abuses of the subject and the philosophy itself. It shows that LRH is right, “When in doubt, communicate!”. Thank you for making the trip and your continued communication to set things right.
    Catherine Von Ach
    Austin, Texas

  50. Marty fantastic job! Wow.

  51. Yes, Tony, that be her.

  52. Tony DePhillips

    Sum gum war su up.

  53. I didn’t get my $20K back when I asked. Bad karma is coming their way. Just be glad you’re not in their position. And I hope you do get your money back somehow.

  54. Tony DePhillips

  55. Jim Logan,
    Brilliant comment!

  56. one of those who see

    Wow, Wow, Wow Marty!!!!!! I love that this communication is happening. Well done. you look great in the video by the way!

  57. I cannot wait to witness DM’s retort. I can practically guarantee multiple foot-nukes on multiple continents. It will be lovely !!!

  58. Its funny that Miscaviage wasn’t invited to talk to authorities in Germany – after all – he’s the “Pope” of Scientology. Instead, they asked to talk to Marty. Marty is currently cleaning up the mess Miscaviage makes. I guess Miscaviage made it dangerous to be a Scientologist in Europe.

    Miscaviage makes these messes because he always approaches everything the same way: With anger, hate, resentment, antagonism, pain, – all the anger tones. He creates enemies on a daily basis by being stupid. That’s why it takes a higher IQ person like Marty to handle Davids messes. People don’t like being handled with lower tones. They like the basics of Scientology which is ARC = U. That formula has nothing to do with anger, hate, resentment and so forth.

    Theta wins, Always.

    ML Tom

  59. Don’t get me wrong. I think the visit was valuable.

    I’m just pointing out that the German government’s issues with the Church of Scientology have always been about the CoS’s anti-democratic policies and not religion. Marty’s presence is a further indication of this rather than a cause of it.The FreeZone is apparently not insignificant in Germany and has never been under investigation.

    Conversely, the harassment of Independent and FreeZone Scientologists shows that the CoS is only interested in freedom of religion when it suits them, such as when it wants to complain about German authorities.

  60. one of those who see

    Marty, this is huge. What you have accomplished and are accomplishing in such a short space of time is amazing. Well, it’s OT. That’s what it is.

  61. All movements develop as a process.

    What makes what Marty is doing so important is defining Scientology as a religion versus Scientology as the corrupt and criminal business. Once you pry apart the two so that governments can make the distinction, once you distinguish the business from the religion, there can be no hiding behind the laws of religion to protect criminal activity.

    And the list of criminal activity hiding behind religion is long, long indeed.

    And the jail time waiting for those involved will be long, long indeed.

    The incorrect definition is being applied to the church. And to Scientology.

    With a little work, Europe will understand first. Then, the idiots in Washington will play catch up.

    Not that our politicians are short on the capacity to differentiate. Nor long on the capacity to identify. After all, anyone can see that A=A=A–especially, if it gets you votes–or an autograph. Luscious secretaries.

    Or a chunk of the power pie.

    Power pie. Yum. A la mode. Or with whipped cream. Delicious.

    ps: Marty, you dress up nicely.

    pps: for those still supporting the criminal organization, might I suggest that you step back and ask yourself, “is this right? Is what I’m doing really for the greatest good? What exactly is Scientology? What is the purpose?” Once you separate the two definitions, maybe a light will turn on. The actual bridge is available in the independent field, not in the church. No one is making the bridge in the church, despite earning numerical certificates, because auditing has ceased to be a religious activity and become purely a money-making scam. The gains people are making has more to do with the residual power of the tech rather than the misapplication occurring inside the corporate walls. If you are serious about your spiritual freedom….

  62. Marty, that was pretty damn cool. Nice work.

  63. Wonderful !!!!!!!
    Never have seen caberta with such VGIS. Marty you rock ! Well done !

  64. ACK.

  65. THANK YOU Marty!!!! I have said it before and I will say it again. YOU are the ONLY one who is getting the TRUTH out worldwide and helping the world to differentiate between Scientology & the organized church and truly bringing all the ex church members together (Independents, Freezoners, etc…). For the first time you are making it safe for us to practice the standard Scientology tech without being attacked.

  66. I also would like to thank Mike R, Christie, Amy and many many others who have and are still exposing the truth.
    We are winning!!!!

  67. German TV

    The whole thing, courtesy of Anonymous Hamburg:

  68. I know not all of you have had a problem with being a Scientologist.

    I am glad you live someplace that is safe for you to be you and live without apology.

    The United States is not a place like that is every area.

    The thought that I may be able to walk free and admit what I am doing with the tech without being attacked by extremists, hate groups, hate people, sadists, Church police and government officials because of what the “official” Church has practiced as a culture made me break down and sob. This is the second time in 16 years my husband has seen me cry.

    I am tired of having NO HUMAN RIGHTS because of the corporate Church and the hate groups full of extremists and sadists that are on a continuous mission to DESTROY. It has not been safe to be a Scientologist for many decades.

    There are MANY innocent people in this game that have never been abusive, that have never been dishonest, that have never supported disconnection or human suffering that are Scientologists. And we are sandwiched in between the suppression from the corporate Church and it’s staff and the vicious hate groups. It is a hard place to stand.

    I’m, tired. I have had a lot of charge on this. I never thought or dreamed I would see a day when we didn’t have to live in these punative conditions. But today, Marty caused me to dream a dream.

  69. +1
    This is REAL Scientology at work. It is entirely new.

  70. Is this room rocking? 😉

  71. Thank you Marty, you’ve created a safer space which will now continue to grow and grow and combine with many other efforts to have LRH tech available to everyone – as it was always intended.
    A good day indeed.

  72. ARC
    Isn’t it beautiful? 🙂

  73. Such fantastic work Marty, so many will benefit from your work in the future.

  74. By the time I was 22 I had been commissioned to do work for five world renowned movie stars/celebrities/opinion leaders within the field of endeavor I was in.
    So why three years later did I leave it–hang up my pistols?
    Not enough freedom if you can believe that one! LOL!!!
    I had no misgivings—being an arrogant young man and full of himself and recently introduced to Scientology, I felt like most any vocation I would approach could satisfy my urge as an artist. The realization that caused me such insouciance was that there really was no other way to do things but aesthetically. Didn’t matter what it was…especially living itself.
    This is for all those people who live life accordingly.

    The Artist

    The maker of universes,
    the day never done.
    They dance with the angels,
    up close to the sun.
    They cause us to stare,
    at that evening star.
    And wonder of ourselves,
    who we really are.

    It’s the songwriter who spins,
    her silk sparingly.
    A voice like fine wine,
    yet stings like a bee.
    Or the actor who puts,
    himself on display.
    And changes your world,
    by the end of the play.

    It’s the architect’s building,
    filling your eyes.
    Being used every day,
    in its pure design.
    It’s real gift the art,
    that will be history’s next find.

    It’s the mechanic who makes,
    the race engine purr.
    Even the man at the corner,
    who ignores passing slur.
    It’s the art of this life,
    it has no earthly bounds.
    Just create it yourself,
    and it will be found.

  75. And I guess it would be pretty easy to figure out who is living their live on an exceptionally high plane—save for the occasional DM downdrift to make it seem otherwise.
    Go for it, Amigo. Ring the bell clearly.

  76. Good Show Marty, carry on.

    Somebody somewhere is gonna throw with wiskyglasses at the computerscreen.

  77. I always hate when people tell me that I “clean up well”…what am I the rest of the time, jerk? But you do look sharp in this video–not that that’s a substantive matter. What does matter is that your honesty and sincerity come through clear as day.

  78. it’s part of the creed::
    “That all men have inalienable rights to their own lives.”
    “That all men have inalienable rights to their sanity.”

    One piece of Scn DM apparently DID read is the Code of a Scientologist; he is applying it in reverse, word for word. Read it (again) and see for yourself if you concur with my opinion.

    “4. To decry and do all I can to abolish any and all abuses against life and Mankind.
    5. To expose and help abolish any and all physically damaging practices in the field of Mental Health.
    6. To help clean up and keep clean the field of Mental Health.
    7. To bring about an atmospherew of safety and security in the field of Mental Health by eradicating its abuses and brutality.
    8. To support true Humanitarian endeavors in the field of Human Rights.”

  79. When I lived in Germany and still was part of the system, I remember how hard the CofS was fighting Mrs. Caberta. As a German Scientologists we were told that she was a mere suppressive trying to destroy Scientology. However, it is good to know that she does not seem to mind the Independent movement or Scientology but the Cof$…

  80. Oh man! DM must be ripping his hair out right now. Great work Marty. See y’all when you get back to TX.

  81. Ursula is such a sharp lady. I thought she would agree that bettering one’s self and others with Scientology is a good idea for anybody, BUT…the way the Church of Scientology advocates a person should go about it uniformly results in people that become worse in some way instead of better following the church’s advice on how to better themselves. Is it any wonder why the Church of Scientology has not won the favor of the German people and the German government after all these years of the church “bettering people”? Somebody has to expose the truth somewhere. Excellent spearheading campaign Marty. Did you see Krautfag? 🙂

  82. True enough Jim!

  83. one of those who see

    Always wonderful to hear from you, Grasshopper. By the way I own the dvds of the kungfu series. LOL

  84. Just adding my VWD. Thank you – is a simple statement but holds much gratitude for all your efforts on behalf of Scientology and Scientologists everywhere.

  85. This is news; it is history—your beautifully concise statement of common ground with the Ministry of Germany regarding the abuses of Corporate Scientology under the Miscavige Administration. Sane people, no matter where located, understand these abuses. And that there is no monopoly on the technology! Marty – Thank you again for all you are doing.

  86. More of the press conference:

  87. Cowboy, you are a skilled artist, and I have so enjoyed your wonderful art. Thank you for making and sharing it.

  88. Kevin Bloody Mackey

    They may well Lombard, but that’s up to you guys too. Do you think that once DM is convicted the CofS will stop their destructive practices of crush regging, real estate pyramid scams, enforced disconnection,abuse of priest penitant data, enforced abortions, human trafficking and child sex cover ups?

    If so, you fellers will probably enjoy a long and prosperous future.

  89. I think the whole universe is rocking…. so awesome! 🙂

  90. She agreed so much I thought she was going to interrupt him to say so!

  91. Damn nice job! German Anons rock! Thank you!

  92. Just marvelous!


  93. The light of truth always seems to find a way to over come the darkness of evil – thanks to brave and good people.

    Miscavige and his little band of flying monkeys better get their sun glasses on.

    Well done, Marty. Well done, Ursula.

  94. Forgot part 2, here you go:

  95. WHAT?

    People are leaving the Church because they disagree with disconnection, crushing financial burdens and Church control over your eternity?

    What a Heretic you are, Marty! How dare you offer a sane alternative to PoB!

  96. George M. White

    Thanks for posting this video.
    There is no place for violence in this “religion”. It must be rooted out.
    Marty told the story in a few well-chosen words and provided the proper links
    for the German authorities.
    Much loving-kindness,

  97. I don’t know David Miscavige, but have heard much about him, his psyche, his style, his capabilities, from dear friends who know him well. In the face of today’s events in Germany, I imagine he must be going nuts.

    Davey, tick tock.


  98. Just watched the short version, and my comment is that it cannot be expressed any better than Marty did it. Perfect.

    Viva la independance!!! (pardon me on any screwed up French/Spanish)

  99. I just realized I’ve had a headache for years.

    ML Tom

  100. +1 Exactly, K#1. We were fed how the German govt. was against the tech, when in actuality they were seeing the greedy and controlling actions of the church’s administration and taking issue with that. Those actions are all contrary to the tech anyway and why there has been such a huge exodus.

    Marty is so relaxed and straightforward that you can’t help but listen calmly to him and let it sink in and make sense. What a great step in the direction of freedom and I am so thankful he was able to get over there and do this. Much more to come in Germany and all over Europe due to his efforts.

  101. Thanks Marty and Mosey! VWD

    By the way, in case anyone missed it, here’s a shot of the best Pope Shorty the 1st (and last) could muster:

  102. Marty, I have to say that I am really impressed.
    You have really opened up Scientology in Germany.
    There is a small further step in that we need to differentiate from the “Freezone” that follow Bill Robertson’s strange alter-is of the tech.

  103. Can you imagine the heart attacks IAS regges like Howard Becker are having? Peace and communication are destroying their income. Of course, they’ll keep the lies going as long as they can.

  104. S-W-E-E-T….very sweet…Marty forever the OT point guard bringing the ball of freedom down the court to set up the next play.

    All smiles from this sector.

  105. Amazing video. Wow!

  106. theoracle, I hear you loud and clear and agree with you 100% sister!

  107. +1 Jim. You nailed it again.

  108. I said it before. We are actually wearing the hat, Marty and Mike and many others in the Independent Movement in the biggest way, that The I.A.S. was supposed to wear and didn’t. They are sitting up there with DM right on top of them pts as hell, GENERATING flaps, out PR, and conflict.

  109. Marty and Mosey, all I can add is another Thank You to you both. For everything you do and for everything you’ve had to put up with. You are big Beings creating big effects where they need to be made.

  110. JM,

  111. Anonymous,
    Great Videos! Thanks for these!

  112. This is a milestone and definitely an incredible occurrence to have a sovereign entity – a government of a nation really start to recognize that there is a difference between POB’s cult and their more secular, greedy, brutal & abusive behavior and LRH – the founder’s- religion!

  113. Phenomenal press conference! This will send shock waves across the planet. The truth wins the day; the lies are blown.

    Thank you Marty. Thank you Ursula Caberta.

    ps. Wanna bet who’s getting very drunk tonight…………the dwarf!

  114. Scott Campbell

    Yaaaay Marty!

    Good job, brother. Another strong voice in the land is exactly what’s needed and wanted.

    And brother, that’s what you are!

  115. Michael Fairman

    THE postulate is sticking big time. Here are some mixed metaphors:
    You are Mr. October jacking them out of the park and it’s not yet mid-September; and you’re on your way to delivering the Golden Fleece — very soon you will be bringing it home. VVVVVWD!

  116. Epo,

    It’s like “break a leg” in the theater. Not to be taken literally. If you tell a woman she looks really good in “that” dress, it doesn’t mean she looks terrible otherwise.

    Of course, if you’re secure in yourself, a person can come up to you and tell you look like shit when you actually do look like shit and it just makes you laugh. “Yep, I do, no big deal, huh?” Because you know, deep down, you really do clean up well. Even when you’re filthy.

    Beauty is not skin deep. Beauty has depth and goes all the way through. Real and lasting beauty.

  117. CP, thank you thank you thank you. Wow! Makes me want to paint somethin’!!!

  118. Absolutely stellar, Marty!!

    I feel like a cubic mile of ridge just evaporated!

    Brilliant and feather-light, postulate-level application of the third-party law.

    dm must be going berserk. There’s nothing to hit. There’s no mass, there’s no energy, there’s no force. It’s simply truth as-ising years of lies piled onto Germany’s painfully recent group engram/overt. Of course they fought the church, they knew the consequences of allowing another sawed-off fascist to gain power in their country.

  119. Looking 4 Myself

    Wow. DM is really going to blow a gasket over this one. I imagine his goon squad in IOB will be doing something to shoot themselves in the foot with a bazooka when Marty gets back home. I need to go to the store and stock up on a jumbo size box of popcorn. I have a feeling things are going to get even more interesting than they have already been.

  120. Could there be a more perfect example of open, direct willingness to connect to other human beings … who just so happen to be members of the press and possibly German government.

    Excellent Marty!! Excellent Mosey!!


  121. Floating Needle

    The room just got brighter by watching this!

  122. Marty You are the best

  123. What’s new is the DIRECT LINE of COMMUNICATION with the powers that be. No op-terming. Straight up communication! This IS Scientology – the practice of the Cult (COS) is NOT Scientology. The line is in the sand clearly differentiates Theta from Entheta!

    It’s a beautiful thing! VERY POWERFUL!

  124. Scott Campbell

    Beautiful sentiments and poem, Cowboy.

    Thanks for the wonderfully worded reminder that life is best lived at aesthetics. You’re right. It is the best way to live!

  125. Precisely!

  126. CP-Great quality of comm

  127. Did you get an instant read?

    sorry, just couldn’t resist

  128. She’s a VERY good-looking woman!

  129. C D – Here”s live video news feed from Southern California-

  130. Exactly!

  131. You bet your bippy, Jim! 🙂

  132. Well said Mat.

  133. WOW! Thank you Theoracle. Me too.

  134. Wonderful picture!!!!

  135. Very well said, Grasshopper! Isn’t it amazing how LRH gathered and/or discovered all of this wonderful tech that just plain flows together. If something is true it will continue to be so. Hmmm…. guess Scientology works!


  136. martyrathbun09

    Post updated with additional videos.

  137. Tory Christman

    I love to see Ursela’s face…as Marty begins. Her smile tells ALL.
    **Finally** she is speaking with someone who *was* at the very top,
    next to Daveyboy, and can confirm MUCH of what she has heard from others, in years earlier. I’m very happy this is going so well!! 🙂
    Love to ALL 🙂 Tory/Magoo

  138. Michael Fairman

    Re: Scientology and Germany

    When I was interviewed by the writer of the German documentary team a few months ago, I asked about the prevailing general view regarding religious freedom in his country.The writer is a correspondent for the Berlner Zeitung, a major newspaper. He said there was wide spread religious tolerance. I then mentioned to him the points of view I had been fed by the CofS excoriating the German Govt;s position against Scientology. He said the German Govt’s objections were the litany of crimes and abuses — tax evasion,shady investment deals, child labor, disconnection, OSA spying etc, that we are all too familiar with. There was no one to indicate to them the differences between the practice of the religion and the way the church was being run. The baby was thrown out with the bath water,so to speak, and it seems that it has now been recognized by Ms Caberta, The universal solvent has been uncorked.

  139. “Church of Scientology members dramatizing the Inquisition” MR

  140. I’m yet to see all videos and comments. Look forward to more. 🙂

    My main activity is promoting the FZ in places. By definition they are hostile.

    Marty has exceeded my efforts.

    I see that Ursula Caberta’s body language is extremely supportive of Marty.

    This is REALLY obvious.

    I protest with anons. I’m happy to protest with Ursula.

    Lots of this and that about Marty ” Handling” Ursula.

    To me it looks like they are friends. 🙂

  141. theoracle

    Wonderful… Yes quite wonderful.

    Thank you.

    Eric S

  142. martyrathbun09

    Post has been updated with more. It was a press conference held at the Ministry of Interior in Hamburg.

  143. Scientologists have been told that evil governments are out to get their church because it is so good. They are not told that it is because its citizens have been being victimized by organized Scientology in some of the following ways:

    Organized fraud of financial institutions.
    Financial fraud of individuals
    Crush registration causing the financial ruin of individuals
    Theft as in running credit cards with no authorization
    Violation of child labor laws
    Violation of immigration laws
    Violation of tax exempt laws
    Covering up of child and adult rape and assaults
    Breaking up of families
    Actively causing individuals to loose their jobs
    Obstruction of justice
    Corruption of the justice system
    Government espionage
    Human trafficking
    Forced abortions
    Etc, etc, etc

    The truth is that cult leader David Miscavige needs the German government to remain the big bad Bogie Man. Here are a few reasons why:

    When he contributed to and over saw the destruction of Lisa McPherson that resulted in her death, he could easily explain the investigation into the incident and the resulting flap as just another government attack.

    He could hold power by convincing the sheep of his cult that they needed him to protect them from the Bogie Man while he ate one sheep after another (starting with those he saw as a threat to his “power”.

    As a “church” just selling and delivering Scientology services,it was insolvent by hundreds of millions of dollars and was worsening by hundreds of thousands of dollars every week. Scientology had taken in advanced payments worth hundreds of millions of dollars for which it promised future delivery. The problem was that it had already spent most of that while the cost of delivery continued to grow. Even the Flag Service Organization, of which I was the Treasury Secretary for 7 years, had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of service owed while it had about 10 million in reserves.

    The “church” told its staff and public that due to the Bogie Man it needed direct donations to its “war chest” for which no direct service or exchange was expected. This type of registration was given top priority and attention and raised over 1 billion dollars.

    You can expect the next “Freedom magazine” to put a PR spin on Marty’s trip to Hamburg in an effort to increase fear, money and “power”.

    As a note, the direct donation line for the “war chest” led the way for other direct donation lines like:
    Super Power building (about $200,000,000 over the last 25 years)
    Ideal Orgs
    Books to libraries
    Preservation of the technology
    Social betterment
    etc, etc

    I covered a lot of the above in much more detail in a series of articles I posted on the internet years ago. They can be found by searching
    “Little Dickie – Bed Time Stories”. There is one specifically concerning the Super Power building called “Super Power or Super PR”.

    The truth is that society and its governments have been forced into the position of having to put in ethics on organized Scientology due to its continued criminal activities and REFUSAL to take any responsibility and thus reform.

  144. These videos are a whole bag of nails in David Miscavige’s coffin!!

    Thank you!!


  145. Finally!
    Hugs to all there.
    And Sam check your mail:)

  146. 🙂 – theoracle, Your needle is floating! (Mine too!)

    Love and ARC,

  147. Thank you very much for the whole press conference. You guys are on the ball!

  148. You guys are hilarious!! 😀

  149. And you sir are a master artist. Thank you for being our friend.

    Love and ARC,

  150. Tory Christman

    PS: And congratulations to Anonymous for helping, and any and ALL
    Ex-Members and critics who have taken the time to go educate
    Germany on the very abuses spoken of, here….in months and years past. 🙂

  151. Thank you Marthy and your team for the excellent video made with your trip to Germany. Hamburg . Very Precise and clear and well presented . You appeared tired and hopefully you did get some sort of rest between ,It helped to see you surrounded with a nice flow of people that showed support for getting your message across in Germany .Germany is a very nice country and I spent many a years there .

  152. Marty

    Thank you. This is HUGE. Thanks also to all those who have contributed to the motion that has brought things to this juncture. It looks like it is forming up to be a real milestone for those who choose to use Scientology in their lives.

    Not like the nonsense announcement of “this is the most important thing since the release of Dianetics The Modern Science of Mental Health”, that was used to try to get me to go to the event where the “Golden Age of Tech”, and major LRH degrade and alteration of his works, was released.

    Yes… This is good… very good.

    Eric S

  153. Thank you. AWESOME!! You did a terrific job. This is a monumental accomplishment for spiritual freedom and the fundamental human right of free practice of religion.

  154. A bit of wisdom that transcends times, cultures and continents;

    “The right to be left alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms.”
    United States Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

  155. Marty! From the bottom of my pea-pickin’ heart, you are one courageous bastard! (In a gooooood way 🙂 )

    Thank you Marty and Mosey and Mike and everyone here that has traveled this road to freedom.

    Love and ARC,

  156. hear hear

  157. DM must be going bonkers trying to figure out how to put Marty back into the bottle.

  158. I’m with Gary, thank you Cowboy Poet for being our friend.

  159. That huge explosion and earthquake we felt on the west coast of the US this morning was DM’s head exploding!!!!

  160. Anonymous, Bless your heart on giving us these videos. I hope someone does a translation of the above (and any other) German press that results from this.

    And Marty … wow. You so rock. Thank you thank you. You were superb.

  161. Excellent job on the differentiation between the philosophy of Scientology and the dictator of the current perverted church, and –
    Valuable info on DM’s efforts to black PR Germany. That exposure alone will be causing some upset in some circles. I had not heard about any of those efforts.


  162. There is a choice:

    Two headed swords.

    Or a kiss on both cheeks

  163. one of those who see

    One of my favorites. Spirit is appropriate today!

  164. POB

  165. one of those who see

    You’re The Voice – John Farnham
    We have
    The chance to turn the pages over
    We can write what we want to write
    We gotta make ends meet before we get much older
    We’re all someone’s daughter
    We’re all someone’s son
    How long can we look at each other
    Down the barrel of a gun?

    You’re the voice try and understand it
    Make a noise and make it clear
    Whoa oh oh
    We’re not gonna live in silence
    We’re not gonna live with fear
    Whoa oh oh

    This time
    We know we all can stand together
    We have the power to be powerful
    Believing we can make it better

    We’re all someone’s daughter
    We’re all someone’s son
    How long can we look at each other
    Down the barrel of a gun?

    You’re the voice try and understand it
    Make a noise and make it clear
    Whoa oh oh
    We’re not gonna live in silence
    We’re not gonna live in fear
    Whoa oh oh

  166. Suddenly, the room seems brighter. : – )

  167. Right on Matt!

  168. lesson: even if people believe the total opposite of what you believe, people will be people and most always try to help you.

  169. They don’t like to give back straight donations, but they are required to give back unused service donations. The only thing that works is TR3, and appropirate threats.

  170. Auditors SHOuLD be hilarious.

  171. Marty,
    You handled Ms. Caberta so beautifully!!!! You established reality with her. She sees a true Scientologist who can and does acks the facts! You didn’t use the tactics the church uses to hide their actions by attacking with false accusations, but instead you confronted the wrongness and educated them on the rightness of the tech! My hat is off to you! You are as I told you before, a true giant!
    With Love, respect and admiration.

  172. I fair use quote the founder of the philosophy:
    P.A.B. No. 79
    10 April 1956

    from the section: WHAT DO I THINK OF AUDITORS?

    To be an auditor you only have to be willing to guide a person’s attention to an area in life that is bothering him by asking him an exact auditing question, and then be willing to listen attentively to the person’s answer and then be willing to accept that answer and acknowledge him for that answer.

    Whole lotta that goin’ on in Hamburg.

    If this world has any faintest chance of surviving it will be not because I write but because auditors can and will think and do.

    You betcha. Watch and learn.

    I think we’re a fine crew. I know we can make it. And I know that if it’s a better world in the future it will be because Scientologists are what they are, not what I made them.

    Amen, sir. Maybe some stumbling, but I think we’re finally gettin’ the hang of it.

    Bruce Pratt

  173. Damn fine work Marty!!!

  174. Amen to that, Tory!

  175. Marty – I applaud your fabulous ability “to tell it like it is” .Your communication really communicates. A most excellent job!!!!

    PS I had to abbreviate my name from dutyfree to df as for some strange reason my comments for the past 4 days have all been rejected.

  176. I don’t think so. Neither was I present because I am from the other side of Germany and I’m a bit short on money right now. Though I’d have loved to be there.

  177. Marty,

    Did you used to play hockey or something, when the gloves came off I saw a real enforcer!
    DM, be afraid, be real afraid.
    Germany has annointed Marty as the only legitimate spokesman for LRH over you.
    As the little boy who cried wolf found out when the real wolf comes around……..

  178. Humbling…thx.
    No big deal. Just kickin the can down the road. 🙂

  179. Well congratulations Marty! I think you are having the effect you had intended and kudos to you. I had been a Scientologist for forty years and while I am no longer a Scientologist I do feel that the independents have the right freedom of religion. You are making it clear that the current C of $ is not really a religion but a corporation that is using harmful and destructive actions to destroy good people and all of these orders are coming from one evil sociopath: DAVID MISCAVIGE.

    I want to thank you and your crew of independent Scientologists, the Anons, Ursula Caberta, Tony Ortega, and everyone else who has spoken out and exposed the evils of David Miscavige and his regime. Very very well done.

  180. She’s been fighting the organisation for over 20 years. She went through the whole barrage of harassment tactics including lawsuits filed against her. The only reason that she managed to stay on top all these years was that she had the Hamburg senate backing her. 20 years ago, the Scientology organisation was much much more aggressive. It is in no small part her dedication, that has effectively pulled the teeth and claws from the Scientology organisation in Germany.

    Having Mr. Rathbun sit next to her spilling the beans on things she could have only suspected 10 years ago without definite proof is the best thing that could have happened to her. And the worst thing that could possibly happen to Miscavige.

  181. Your eyes stink.

  182. Empowering, Cowboy Poet. Namaste.

  183. Yes indeed!

  184. Pingback: It’s Safe to be a Scientologist in Germany (via Moving On Up a Little Higher) « My LRH

  185. “Reform codes”?

    I hadn’t heard that before, care to enlighten me?


  186. This just keep getting better and better.

    Great job Marty. You have caused a blowdow in Germany. V V WD.

    I swallowed the Churchs lies about the German gov’t and the German people. Watching your video handled much false data I had. It is amazing how much in the way of resources the Church has put into third partying Germany and many in the gov’t including Mrs Caberta. Truly staggering efforts to cover up Miscavige’s crimes.

    I’ll put up the plane fare if he flies there to be interviewed by her on live television. Of course he may need some assurances that he won’t immediately be arrested.

  187. Simply Revolting


  188. Levitra Phallus


    I’m not sure if you’ll post this but I sure hope you read this. After seeing your great talk in Germany today, I am starting to believe that some Anons aren’t giving you enough credit, including me. I subscribe to Mark Bunker’s attitude regarding the tech, but I also agree with some statements you’ve made to the media about the benefits to some aspects, including the talk therapy. Most of us fully believe in religious freedom and want to support you, but not for the fact that blind faith in LRH’s policies created the black/white thinking that fostered abuse and gave the drunken dwarf authority to lie, cheat, steal, tear apart families, and drive people to the depths of despair. I hope that the Free Zone or the Independent movement can acknowledge the good and discard the harmful practices. Some acknowledgment from your camp that LRH was a flawed human is all we can hope for.

    Please try to have some discussions with some of us, or try to engage us as we have the same goals in regards to stopping this evil. I saw you as a real human being today, and I think your talk was on target and very revealing.

    Thanks, and safe travels back home. I know you’ll be prepared and ready for what idiocy they will pull when you get home.

  189. Beautiful post. That got me.

  190. Thanks for doing this Marty, and what a good job you guys did. I was amazed by the expose of the Co$ connections and 3rd party of the US gov’t during the Clinton years and again now. This should be pretty embarrassing for them.

    Your comm cut right through any propaganda to the truth. I think we’ll see a new wave of Indies after that shot.

  191. Marty,
    So many thoughts are going through my mind right now on all the positive ramifications of what’s been done here.

    All I’m going to say is, Thank You for so eloquently presenting the differentiation between the workable tech developed by LRH, and the atrocious behavior of David Miscavige.

    The truth WILL set one free.


  192. Marty – good work.

  193. From HCO PL 2 Sept 1970, Issue II, entitled “FIRST POLICY”:


    The first policy of a Scientology Org, laid down on about 8 or 10 March 1950, is:



    Marty and Mosey – Very Well Done Indeed !

    DM … well … FLUNK !

  194. Pingback: Marty Rathbun in Germany : XENU TV

  195. Marty and Mosey, thank you with all my heart for what you are doing.

  196. DM’s head must feel like it has a tight band around it.

  197. TheOracle,

    I got involved in Chanology (the Anonymous challenge to the CoS) so that you and others like you could enjoy the freedom to believe in and practise scientology, or not, as you choose, free of all abuse, harassment and oppression.

    My hunch is that Ursula has done her work for the last 20 years for the same reason. I understand she has not gone after the Freezone. I believe Mike Rinder would have discovered the same when he met Nick Xenophon; that he supports your right to believe and practise your religion, so long as it does not involve abusing people.

    By loudly and publicly eschewing forced disconnection, abusive regging, fair game and harassment, Independent Scientologists can educate the wider public, who may not know as much as the Caberta’s and Xenophon’s of the world, that you will not expose people to those dangers. Marty is showing how that’s done. Good job, Marty.

  198. One step at time.
    Their cancer (mega bucks induced) might be hard to kill but let’s, for a little time anyway, soak in what has occured and see where the chips fall. It’s a long hard road as you know only too well. Have the strike at the enemy, it is well placed.

  199. I feel a group hug coming on.

  200. Yeah Marty stay for a awhile. See if the German government will start granting asylum and protection to people fleeing the Church! RELIGIOUS asylum! That would be fresh!

  201. Well done Marty! I feel this has an immense effect.

  202. Stat/Andrew Organ

    Time to make another expensive-looking, self-righteous, stupid video, OSA, I mean, DM. The public Scientologists tend to to use Google once in a while, these days.. Next thing you know, staff members will too…Oh boy… I already have more and more people contacting me from the church, who refuse to agree that I am an “SP”. I wonder why. Not really. Thank you to all of you brave and smart enough to speak up, despite of perceived or real consequences.

  203. A new age of Aquarius!!
    And danc’in in the streets.
    Let the big man with the Texas tan
    set’em free in Germany..
    And Yippee ki yay mutha-hush yo’ mouth!
    to Davie… Lying around try’in to get a tan..
    he got no products..he’s the little man .

  204. Marty, you did a beautiful differentiation between the church and Scientology. Just fantastic.

  205. And thanks from my heart for giving hope to the future.

  206. Stat/Andrew Organ

    P.S. Or perhaps a Freedom magazine special issue too?! On how Marty and Mosey got hooked up with Nazi’s, who are also psychiatrists, who are also pharmacists and world bankers. And all the money involved… C’mon, the world is watching now. Breaking news – the “wogs” are not stupid. Duplicate that.

  207. John In Austin

    The saddest part of this whole thing?!

    The primary country in the world founded on “freedom of religion” is perhaps the ONLY place in the world where Independent Scientologists the Powers That Be turn a blind eye to the deliberate, ongoing and illegal campaign by the Cult of CofM to prevent Scientologists from practicing their religion!

    Would LOVE to see the Merry Band of Brain-Dead Pranksters and High-Paid Private Investigators show up to hound and harass and prevent Marty from exercising his Freedom of Religion in Germany, Singapore, Peru, Israel or literally any other of the 205-odd countries in the entire world EXCEPT the United States and see what happens!

    In 204 of those countries, the $cientology Morons would immediately be arrested and detained for considerable periods of time. Only in the United States of America are they free to continually, openly and defiantly trample on the civil and religious rights of Independent Scientologists.

    Keep the faith!

    Big Love,

    John in Austin

  208. Wow Marty, that’s just great! VVWD!
    Enjoy your vacation abroad.

  209. Marty,

    If you can’t travel back come down to Switzerland. We will have a place for you.

    Max Hauri

  210. Marty-

    This is truly amazing. I watched all three videos. Your ability to communicate the truth is having a worldwide impact.

    Truly amazing.

    I mentioned in one post last month, this blog has implications bigger than Scientology itself.

    It is an example how how corrupt corporations and governments can be brought to accountability through the medium of open communication and the availability of raw, unfiltered data. The emerging “Iceland” model if you will.

    Axiom 10: “The highest purpose in this universe is the creation of an effect”

    Love to you and Mosey,

    Your friend Brian

  211. Theo Sismanides

    Marty and Mosey, thanks so much… you are melting all those ridges… I am so proud Marty that you can confront and communicate!!! This is real Scientology bringing everything to light!

  212. Good one there! Thanks!

  213. This is a remarkable application of “communication is the universal solvent”.

    Co$ has a huge track of creating antagonism & enemies in Germany :

  214. It could, but there are open issues as to how much of Hubbard policy and instructions actually do comply with law and human rights. In Germany you can believe anything and practice anything as long as it isn’t abusive or simply against law and human rights. CoS was abusive, disconnecting, ruining people financially already before Miscavige.

  215. I just wanted to point out that the scientologist in red protesting was not part of the Spanish Inquisition, but was meant to portray Baron Munchhausen.
    The Baron is a character based on a real person known for his exaggeration/tall tales/lies.

    (These images actually comes from the German 1943 version….so it was made during WWII)

    The John Neville/Terry Gilliam version:

    Carry on

  216. Excellent post, Mat. Thanks for all this.

  217. Bruce, I agree with Jim. Simple. True.

  218. There is so much desinformation about Germany vs. Scientology amongst scientologists:

    Scientology is not illegal or forbidden in Germany and never was.
    Scientology just couldn’t convince as to being a religion. German authorities found more indicators that it is a money driven business, no reason for tax exemption.
    And CoS is watched by the constitution protection police (Verfassungsschutz) because Hubbard states in several parts of his writings that the goal of the CoS is amongst others to take over governments by infiltration. This is not democratic so it doesn’t fit. And we’d like our constitution to stay as it is. And people or groups who come to our country have to accept and comply with our laws, our constitution and values as well as the ones of EC. Freedom of speech is one of them.

  219. marty this is incredible!!

  220. Tony DePhillips

    I feel like I’m floating.

  221. Tony DePhillips

    Mat, you da MAN!!!

  222. Tony DePhillips

    Yes!! Thanks Anonymous.

  223. Tony DePhillips

    Kind of like a 3-d engram running EP. 🙂

  224. Hi Yvonne and Marty,
    I think it is great that Marty came here and spoke out. Of course Marty didn’t change anything in Germany’s laws since spiritual freedom and free practice of religion are and have been secure in Germany except during the time of yelling dwarf Hitler.
    The reason CoS has a problem in my country is due to its conflicts with our laws and constitution. We require people who stay in our country to comply with our laws/constitution. Any individual or group planning or committing noncompliance with law/constitution will be in trouble.
    And a group who uses our infrastructure while making money has to give something in exchange. Like paying taxes or giving tangible social services for free. It’s for example not enough to say I believe in chewing gums, sell them to the public, this is a religion, it works and helps people, so Wrigley’s don’t pay tax, don’t pay their employees while using our infrastructure. You see ?

  225. exactly:)

  226. Martin Padfield

    Absolutely perfect musical / artistic interprepation of this moment. This is momentous. I’m known as a bit “stiff upper lip” not prone to high emotion, but I can’t stop the tears of joy this morning. The whole of Europe, and probably the world – as this will surely go viral – will now see what a true Scientologist looks and sounds like – human, real, warm. I’m just sorry I can’t get to Hamburg this week-end to thank you in person. Love and respect as always – Martin (+Maria, Alicia and Emily). xxx

  227. There is so much good stuff from Ursula Caberta’s conferences exposing the crimes of the CoS.
    Jason Beghe and others at the Sept 2008 conference . Amy Scobee and others at the March 2010 symposium .

  228. George M. White


  229. Round trip tickets to Germany ain’t cheap! 🙂 It is better that Marty went because he worked for the church for so long and is really familiar with its inner workings, a lot more than me as well.

  230. Kev,
    I would agree that history doesn’t vouch well for organized churches/religions not being self-serving. However, what change is brought about has always been from pressure—internally or externally.
    So I say crank it down some more.
    What goes in its place? Something better. Maybe not even a church—who needs a friggin church to have a set of tenats or philosophy to live by? (I know plenty of folks who didn’t ask for permission to have what they believe in.)

    Organize it as a church and it takes on an entity of its own, it IS an entity of its own. Then I think you’ll always have an inherent problem—there’s always gonna be people who are susceptible to drinking from that deep chalice of Kool-Aid…and always those who want to stir up a new batch of it too.
    And how else can it be? If you give someone absolute power over yourself, he’s gonna do with you what he will. Sooner or later you’re gonna find yourself with your knickers down around your ankles and quite honestly, you will have put them there!

    Hope everything is well with you.


  231. You may subscribe to any old attitude regarding the Tech and tolerance of deviating attitudes even yields more support. If there’re tens if not hundreds of thousands who have benefited hugely from the Tech, at least let them have their wins and their own spiritual believes.

    Blind faith is exactly what we oppose and even LRH wrote that he’d be offended if we followed his writings blindly without investigating it. Your purpose and ours are similar, away from authoritarian domination and towards self determinism, exactly the purposes of Scientology. Picking up the good, self determined investigation, and throwing overboard the bad, Davey’s perversion of the Tech, is what many of us seek.

    LRH might not have been perfect but that doesn’t define him. In order to come to a correct estimation you’ll have to investigate all facets and actions and weigh the good against the bad. I don’t tell you what my conclusion is after 25 years of thorough investigation, spending an average of 2-4 hours a day, but I would like you to start your own and honest investigation. You made a good start by reading this blog as a lot of correct and true data can be found here.

  232. Ok, I subtitled the first two videos from local media together with Krautfag:

    I will start subbing the conference itself now.

  233. Mat,

    I remember watching the flying monkeys on black and white tv when I was a kid–and loving it.

    The question I have: Will we get to see the wicked little bitch of the west melt?

  234. Mr Fancy,

    Is “sanity” not relative?

    Isn’t sanity in the eye of the beholder? After all, a sanity earned is a sanity saved. Plus, two (opposing) sanities do not make a right. Not to mention, a sanity in time saves nine.

    And, least we forget, if you give a man his sanity, he can eat for a day; but if you teach him to make self and others sane, he can eat for the rest of time.


    Excuse me.

  235. Mr. F,
    Certainly, keep in mind there are no ‘guarantees’ and it all depends on you walking the whole road.

  236. Freedom Fighter

    Excellent! VWD! Communication: the Universal Solvent. Just like LRH says.

    IAS, I want the tens of thousands of dollars that you fraudulently extorted from me over the “Germany situation” back. NOW!!

  237. Ralph,
    A couple of refs come to mind; LRH ED 54 Int, SUPERIOR SERVICE IMAGE is one and HCOB 22 Jan 77, IN TECH THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE IT is another. From that last one:
    “The dominating factor of tech being in, is whether the auditor really wants to do a good job and help the pc. It is a matter of professional competence and pride.

    If the auditor does not have this there is no amount of rules, reading or supervision that will bring about technical successes.

    Fortunately the vast majority of auditors have a high professional conscience and are willing to study, drill and do everything possible to perfect their tech. The Course Supervisor, the D of P. the C/S and Qual Cramming terminals must realize this and must do all possible to fortify it and must abstain from invalidations and accusations and injustices which tend to nullify it.

    From this springboard of belief in the auditor and a willingness on the part of those training and handling him, to strengthen the auditor’s determination to be professionally competent, in-tech will only then blossom in an org.”

  238. Just me,

    The clock he hears is the one sitting in the belly of the croc who chomped off his hand. This crocodile, Mr. Grin, Tick-tock the Croc, has been sunning himself in a little town off the Texas Coast, just waiting for another bite. I hear tell that Mr. Croc has decided to travel to Brobdingnag to entertain those folks with stories of fairies and little people. People so small they must stand on boxes to talk.

    Not to mention, tales of lost boys and savages.

    Oh, the scary stories Mr. Croc does tell.

    Recent reports have the pirate captain hiding in his stateroom, stomping hither and thither with sword brandished, threatening the walls, yelling at his crew, screaming, “you fucking cowards! If I were there, the Croc would be dead in no time! He would run away as fast as he could. See how he’s run to Brobdingnag just to avoid my mighty thrusts.”

    (And he demonstrates an array of might thrusts with sword and hips to prove his point.)

    No one bothers to mention that the croc has been leisurely swimming along the walls of the ship for days before leaving for Brobdingnag. It’s best not to upset the pirate captain.

    “Am I going to have to handle this too, you fucking cowards?” Stomp, stomp. Tantrum, tantrum. “I’m already handling the entire universe. Hell, I’m handling…, huh, infinity… Infinity–and beyond!!!!!!”

    (Which he demonstrates with more thrusts and jabs–oh, what mighty thrusts and jabs they are, too.)

    Then, enraged by his trembling men with their meager excuses for failure, in a violent fit of proof over how busy he is, the pirate captain smacks them around, kicking them toward the door. As the crew scurries out, reminiscent of rats on the retreat, bent and low and fervid, he screams, “And shut the fucking door!!!!!!!!”

    A door of which he is most proud. The most expensive door available, paid for with glorious plunder. Thirteen inches of steel. Hardened steel. Impenetrable by crocodiles. With thirteen locks. Unpick-able locks. Unpick able by mice nor men–nor crocodiles.

    He takes a deep breath and sighs, looking at all the chests of gold and jewels lining his stateroom. His children. Visiting his children always makes him happier.

    After lifting the hundreds of lids on his chests filled with plunder, the captain begins to imagine how much power he has. He is certainly the most feared swordsman in the land. He and his lovely sword. What a lovely sword. An invincible sword. Wielded by the most magnificent of hands. What he would do to that croc with that sword. With his skill.

    Thus, enrapt, the captain begins to caress his sword, thinking of actors who might play him in the movie version of his life. Errol Flynn. Tom What’s-his-name. Thinking of what he would do to the actors. Of what he would do to the crocodile if he ever caught him.

    Such a lovely sword.


    No wonder that crocodile is so frightened of him.

  239. LP,
    Reading your wonderful post here I am struck by what we as practicing Scientologists call the Granting of Beingness. It’s tolerance of other viewpoints, a willingness to be and see from some different point and factually give life to those you live with.

    The sincerity is clear. Thank you from one being making their way to another willing to help.

  240. Just to let you Margaret the usual transcipts and translations will follow as soon as completed.

  241. Tom,
    This is the best demonstration they could gather?

    Wouldn’t this warrant an all hands? The biggest SP in the universe has come to town to destroy Scientology, for Gawd’s Sake!!!!!

  242. Michael,

    Uh, you weren’t kidding about mixed metaphors.

    If there’s one thing that really ticks me off, it’s a mixed metaphor. A real man doesn’t add ice or water or soda to his metaphors. He takes his metaphors straight up.

    Like a man.

    A real man.

    Preferably, using the most expensive imported metaphors OPM can buy.

  243. DM: it’s not wolves you hear in Europe, it’s bells, and they toll for thee! Who are you going to blame this time for yet another major flap?

    ‘Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only where there are “no results” or “bad results”.’
    HCOPL KSW 7 FEB 1965

    Come on, you OSA dupes, frogmarch the nutter out and chuck him into the street before he does any more harm!

  244. Michael,

    One of life’s great joys is collecting babies thrown out with the bath water. One finds them everywhere. And usually in great repair. There is a thriving market for such babies. All around the world. One could easily become rich collecting and selling babies thrown out with the bath water.

    And without paying taxes.

  245. Mat,

    I loved your Little Dickie–Bed Time Stories.

  246. Bruce,

    finally gettin’ the hang of it. Yep.

  247. I’m glad to be part of this group seeking freedom for every human being of goodwill… leading to OTs with goodsense…
    Glad to live thru such historical moments for Scientology…
    Italian Indipendents are actively on target.

  248. Every human is flawed, including LRH. LRH stated this numerous times.

    LRH also allowed for changes and updates in his policies, per his own policies.

    The hagiography surrounding LRH is a Miscavige creation (that took hold in the 1980s), not an LRH one.

  249. Good point Ingrid. For years we fed false data by IAS reges like Howard Becker so that we would give the IAS more money. We were led to believe the German government were treating Scientologists EXACTLY like the Jews in Hilter’s Germany. I could never understand how things could keep getting worse in spite of all the money we were giving. We now know that this was all a lie just to get money out of us.

  250. What’s ironic is that PoB has destroyed so many people in his search for a scapegoat.

    Things aren’t going right? Must be an SP we need to put on the RPF or offload!

    Crazy orders resulting in bad stats? Must be that counter-intention from the faggot who’s screwing up my orders!

    DM has no hesitation to put someone’s head on a pike when things don’t go his way; when he’s the stupid ass who’s causing so many problems.

    Marty, you made it clear that DM and the crazy church policies he’s been implementing are the real “why” in Germany. I hope Public Scientologists continue to abandon the sinking ship.

  251. Indeed, as mentioned a couple times in the comments, a M I L E S T O N E:

    “An important event, as in a person’s career, the history of a nation, or the advancement of knowledge in a field; a turning point.”

    Really well done! L, Rachel

  252. Heather — You believe right. Senator Xenophon is no bigot (despite how the church attempts to label him). His interest in the church began as an effort to protect his constituents who had complained to him of abuses from the church. That has now broadened to doing something about the abuses of the church towards any citizen of Australia. When he first began to speak out, he said some things that were perhaps inadvisable, but as he has worked to become more educated, he has focused on the abusive practices of the church and no generalities about “Scientology” as a religion as he has come to understand, in spite of what the church tries to assert (“The Church of Scientololgy IS Scientology, David Miscavige IS Scientology”) that the church is NOT Scientology and that there are many good, decent, caring, non-money-grubbing individuals who practice Scientology.

    I believe this is the case with Ursula Caberta too.

    The reason the “church” cannnot deal with this is that they MUST try to defend the insanities of the vulture culture and enforced disconnection and that simply convinces people like Sen. Xenophon and Ms. Caberta that there is no end in sight other than the eradication of the source of the problem.

    Communication and education, and a willingness to see what the real issues are and acknowledge the wrongnesses goes a long way towards resolving the GPM that builds up between the church and these so called “attackers.”

    Of course, the “church” will never address things this way (even though it is EXACTLY what LRH did with the “Reform Code”) because POB is R-I-G-H-T and its just “SP’s” and the way you handle “SPs” is “attack them.”

    He is incapable of seeing the world around him — he (and by extension RCS) is going to hang onto his “rightness.” In fact, it is so being “right” it is now dead.

    I recognize the courage of Sen. Xenophon and Ms. Caberta. They have not wavered in their underlying conviction that they must ACT to do something to end the abuses. For that they should be thanked and commended.

  253. Such a simple point, and so easy to handle.

    Since it’s church policy to obey the laws of the land and it’s church policy to “maintain friendly relations with the environment and the public,” all anyone in Germany who wants to audit and train auditors needs to do is modify thier operational policies so they are in agreeement with and in ARC with the laws of the country.

    Gee, why didn’t Davey think of that?

  254. Mike,
    It’s just so bizzare that when you try to correct such flagrant violations of basic civil and human rights with a Knowledge Report inside the church, you are villified and actually declared suppressive if you persist.
    And here we have the “SPs” of the “wog world” who are actually the white hats trying get ethics in.

    So Very Well Done to you guys. It’s quite possible that all the work done by many speaking out with the truth in the past, and now you guys stepping up to the plate to hit the winning home runs are saving the subject from really being outlawed.
    Thanks for your courage and for your insights and your actions.

  255. Why?

    That difference only matters to us.

    Are you saying you want *us* to have rights and be free of government opposition and them not ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  256. ingrid, you have got that right!

  257. Brilliant! Truth will out and truth prevails. Death by a thousand cuts to RCS and you just effectively delivered a big and deep gash. Ouwwee!

  258. Levitra Phallus


    Thanks for the clarification in your response. I will admit that I’ve spent a minimum of five years reading about Scientology albeit only from the side of the critics and those harmed by the cult. I believe that I know enough on the topic to stay away from the corporate church and I don’t have any curiosity to try the practice elsewhere. As long as people are not being harmed, I say “God Bless” to those that continue the tech.

    I was not aware that LRH asked his adherents to question even his own policies and spur change, so for this bit of information I am appreciative of what you all do. My own interest in corporate Scientology is around the policy of vilifying psychiatry and psychology due to intimately knowing one that was a target of corporate Scientology, a well-known psychiatrist. The black/white thinking I mentioned above also forbids acknowledgement of these two sciences, which is strange, considering how it has benefited many that suffer from biologically-based, and often genetic, illnesses.

    But that’s a topic for a different post. Thanks again, Marty, for opening the floodgates. Please keep up the good fight. Not all of us are funny, costume-wearing, masked script kiddies, many of us are mature adults that try our best to educate those around us.

    (I will say one thing, though, and I bet that the pissed-off-poodle tried to dress up the protesting Scientologists in Hamburg so that everyone would think they were Anons. He’ll never learn)

  259. Just fucking awesome!
    My guess is this will actually create more productive effects worldwide toward the ending of the abusive and illegal activities of the ‘church’ than any other single thing done to date. The aftershocks may continue for years to come….
    Mark my words: This is just the first rumblings of a MAJOR EARTHQUAKE.
    Bravo Marty and Brava Ursula!

    Two brave, fierce warriors
    Sworn enemies eternal
    Now working together.
    Lies exposed,
    The walls come tumbling down.

  260. You guys are doing a great job of helping place the attention back onto the Radical CO$ and it’s abuses while differentiating the philosophy itself from this debacle.

    Thank-you, Vic

  261. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    I think this really is a wonderful change, but I don’t think that it is Germany or Ursula Caberta that have changed. They’ve always said that they oppose the abuses of a “totalitarian organization that seeks to control everybody else, a dictatorship”, and meanwhile Scientologists of the FreeZone were left alone. Now Ms Caberta has reaffirmed that position for independent Scientologists. So what has changed?

    For years, DM’s organization has kept Scientologists inside a bubble. In that bubble, any criticism of problems and abuses was interpreted to members as counter-intention on the part of a vast conspiracy to suppress Scientology, hate Scientologists, and the critics were demonized in the worst way. Selling Scientologists the idea that they are persecuted victims seems like an evil perversion designed to keep people inside the bubble.

    What Marty and Ursula have just done is pop that bubble for many of you. Certainly the world may look different, but I think the change is mainly in yourselves (and no less wonderful).

  262. OMG. This is huge. VVVVWD!

  263. And Les, who woulda thunk that LRH even left policies in place for Church leadership to modify the Church’s operational policies?

    Davey could have even used the Green (policy) volumes to modify the Green volumes.

    Instead, he decided to destroy the “floating needle”, “instant reads” and create the Golden Dark-Age of Tech. What a swell guy.

  264. When I search “Mark Rathbun” on Google, there’s now a big paid ad at the top of the page for the Freedumb magazine New Yorker parody, sponsored of course by the Co$. I wonder how much money they pay Google when you click that link? Google could use that money for better purposes than the Co$.

  265. Katrin, the church has always had Hubbard policy in place to modify or cancel existing Hubbard policy, as needed. The problem is, you have to have a sane and intelligent leadership in place for that to happen.

    Instead, Miscavige (CoS’s supposed “leader”) has decided to destroy Hubbard’s auditing technology … instead of keep the group’s policy in line with societal laws and requirements.

  266. Martin Padfield

    Jeff – I was re-watching your SP Times interviews by coincidence today. Hope all is going well for you. Don’t hear nearly enough from you, IMHO.

  267. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    I think that the members who were crush-regged for that war chest money could have used it for better purposes than either of them.

  268. I think Marty has become the International diplomat of the Independent Movement-my personal and very humble Commendation!…for the sake and the permanence of the Tech this needs to be held at and promoted to other countries with similar misinformation on real SCN; Spain, Denmark, etc.

  269. Dr. Faust and Krautfag,

    Thank you for your energy in all of this, and for your consideration is posting this here. (I was curious as heck as to what this guy could possibly say, given the rather tight corner he’s painted into. I hate to smack anyone when they’re down, but even Johnie Cochran defending O.J. didn’t have as deep a furrow in his brow as this guy in the vid does!)


  270. Martin Padfield

    You have a way with words, Jason!

  271. Jim, In fairness to all involved, what is needed ARE “guarantees” and no one should be expected to “walk the whole road” in order for a real reform to take place. Church policy should EXPLICITLY state what has been cancelled — and all related policies (which still bring about the undesired result, even if under a different name) also need to be cancelled or amended as a result. This applies, minimally, to “fair game” and “disconnection”, and to some degree to “sec checking” and various policies surrounding “declaring someone an SP”. It also applies to plenty of confidential policies, formerly for the GO, now for OSA.

    While there were “reform codes” in 1968, these were never permanent and thorough, and the lack of permanence and thoroughness allowed Miscavige to do what he did, imho.

    Modifying or cancelling certain LRH policies has to be on the table for this to occur.

  272. Superb.

  273. I wish I could help, but my two years of German in college were … well … I can barely say “good bye” in German (auf widersehn). Probably can’t spell it though. 🙂

  274. I’m in 😀

  275. +l, Sherb.

  276. No, I think what he’s saying is that he doesn’t want society to equate being a Mormon with being a Catholic or a Protestant.

    But you’re right, it does only matter to us.

    Everyone deserves religious freedom … except when they’re raping the kids or bankrupting their members (or building up to a Jonestown).

  277. Guten morgen, Margaret. Vie geht es ihnen? (I took three painful years in high school many moons ago, but couldn’t track with the German interview above. I’ve probably misspelled too! Rachel)

  278. I can hear the pounding of little fists on the floor somewhere near Hemet.
    Someone’s having a tantrum.

  279. Guys, thank you very much. After all the mis-information we’ve been fed about Germany vs. CoS, actually hearing/understanding what the German media and policiticians are saying is very helpful. Thank you again.

  280. Ralph,
    Oh, and of course with KSW added in, with judicious application. That arising from duplication and understanding. That involving judgment and the correct estimation of effort. All based on the fact, THE assumption point, that man IS bascially good and seeks to survive in this li’l game.

  281. Indeed, I had goosebumps. Jason, you should try your hand at screenwriting too (if you haven’t already).

  282. And we have to realise that there are people who are just doing 3P beween the different groups outside the CoS.

    I am part of the RonsOrg and I am extremly happy that I did find an auditor outside the CoS who got me through the grades to Clear. RonsOrg is a fantastic group and doing a great job.

    What I do not understand is why you are allways trying to distroy reputation of the Rons Org. Is it because PCs are prefering going to the RonsOrg instead to you???

    It seems that you are acting like the CoS.

  283. I guess you missed Marty’s post about Max Hauri?

  284. 🙂

  285. blind faith in LRH’s policies

    This “Blind Faith” nonsense is entirely your own faulty Assessment and Falsehood. It tells little more than you have no clue how it works and why. The current Church is not applying these Policies correctly in many Circumstances, but that is easily corrected. If you want to know about empirically retarded Policies, read about indebted Gov’ts handing out Billions of taxpayer Funds to Bankers.

    Some acknowledgment from your camp that LRH was a flawed human is all we can hope for.

    The same decades-long re-parroted drivel used as a rationalization to divert attention from the workability of Scientology.

    You seek Character Assassination to establish exactly what unannounced agenda you have?

    This is really nothing other but the usual 1.1 attacks of those who know nothing about Scientology but echo back Black PR from others, probably nothing more than something you read someplace.

    Sorry, but this isn’t any form of support.

    And who is “We” that is doing the “hoping”? And what for? And of what benefit to you? You think you are doing Scientologists or the World a favor by seeking to denigrate its Author?

  286. one of those who see

    Hi Max!
    That is so theta. I hope Marty can visit with you. Great to see you here on his blog.

  287. Tony Dephillips


  288. Wow, what is the “Reform Code”? I’ve never heard about it before. Please do.

  289. I did. Can you direct me to the subject area?

  290. Katrin wrote: “German authorities found more indicators that it is a money driven business, no reason for tax exemption.”

    It certainly became that way, Katrin. More importantly, the CoS became far more “money/stat motivated” than “spirituality/betterment motivated”. And for that reason, I can’t blame any government for seeing it more as a business than as a church, especially over the last 25+ years.

    And CoS is watched by the constitution protection police (Verfassungsschutz) because Hubbard states in several parts of his writings that the goal of the CoS is amongst others to take over governments by infiltration.

    In particular, there is the confidential “Targets, Defense” policy written for the GO in 1969, in the middle of the Cold War and around the time when people like Martin Luther King and John Lennon (and others then considered “dangerous” and “fringe”, including LRH and the CoS) were being viciously and unfairly attacked by the powers-that-were. Then, 28 years later, that LRH policy then “re-surfaced” and was put in confidential use by OSA — amongst other old questionable GO/OSA policies.

    While we may or may not agree on the general need/validity of that or other policies in 1969 (have a look at the Wikipedia article on Martin Luther King to get an idea of how certain fringe leaders were being treated in those days), I am sure that we can agree that it was a mistake for those policies to be in place in the 1980s, and especially in the 1990s and thereafter.

    In my view, those policies were written at a certain time and to address certain conditions going on in the world. Since those policies were written, the Cold War has ended, Alternative Medicine has become mainstream, and psychiatry has gone through substantial reforms. For those GO policies to be put back in use in 1987 (and still today) is ridiculous. And while LRH made it clear that no laws were to be broken throughout “Targets, Defense” and other policies, I can understand Germany’s concern about “infiltration” based on the wording of “Targets, Defense” in particular. That policy, and others imho, should have been retired years ago.

  291. I can agree with this, too.

    I’m stalking Margaret with statements of agreement.

  292. Mike, I think he was referring to Ralph, not Marty.

  293. I don’t think these issues and debates are about rights, freedoms, or finance. These are exchange of ideas between trained auditors. The only way to exchange ideas within these types of arenas is to get trained and audit people. Know for yourself.

    If you got up through the grades to Clear anywhere that is a very well done on you!

  294. Margaret,
    You are well aware of the extant LRH policy on review and adjustment of ANY existing policy according to the principles of those issues (THE STRUCTURE OF ORGANIZATION: WHAT IS POLICY? being one prime issue.)

    The Reform Codes were such an application by LRH, and had a sweeping positive result in stats and expansion and much improved relations with the society in which we all live and work.

    My favorite description of policy is from 23 Oct 63 REFUND POLICY:
    “The more thetan you have present, the less policy you need and the better things run. Only a thetan can handle a post or a pc. All he needs is the know-how of minds as contained in Scientology. That was all he ever lacked. So, given that, sheer policy is poor stuff, as it seeks to make a datum stand where a being should be. That’s the whole story of the GPMs. So why not have live orgs?

    Policy is only vital where agreement must exist between two or more thetans working together. Beyond that it fails. A needful policy is “We’ll start work on time” since without it the org goes ragged. A useless policy would be “The Registrar must always smile at an applicant” for that puts a datum where a person should be.

    So there are two kinds of policies- those needed to obtain work-together ease and those which seek to put a datum instead of a being in a position. The less you have of the latter the better things will get. The more reasonable the former, the more work will be done.”

    I recall in the PDC tapes a point where LRH eschewed establishing the character and form of the group. He said, paraphrasing, ‘it’s YOUR group, you form it up as you see fit.’

    Eventually, since he was there and he being who he is, he began to formulate the operating principles of the group however, as you know and as it is stated in some of the very fundamental policies of the group in Volume O, it is all based on what is functional to attain to purposes of the group and those are the delivery of training and auditing. ANY policy which gets in that road of delivery is ‘off-policy’ as that delivery is the prime purpose, the goal the reason for being of the organization.

  295. Brian,
    Perhaps if you were to begin making deposits in my International Banker Account (PIN double aught 21) the flow would open up for you.

    Just a thought.

  296. This is the work of a true leader. You inspire others to come forward honestly and openly and to tell the truth to each other so issues can be resolved and existing conditions can be improved.

    This is a true break from the past. It leaves David Miscavige in the dust. It also gives law enforcement the information they need to do their jobs. It exposes and clears away what LRH called a “3rd dynamic engram” in his original policies from the late 1950’s on how the Church and its administrators were to conduct themselves.

    This is the Scientology I originally signed up for. This is the Scientology with courage, with integrity, and with the kindness of human truth, openly and honestly applied.

    Keep up the great work, Marty.

    Allen Stanfield
    Independent Person

  297. The only way forward for Scientology is if none of that stuff ever happens, within an Org, ever again.

  298. Well, on the other hand, the German government might have by now come to the conclusion that the best strategy against their ‘hated Scientology’ is to let itself squirrel itself, to death.

  299. There are different ways to respond to people with false or omitted data. One way is to attack the person for being so 1.1 and being an enemy and by inval and eval try to nullify.

    Another way is to use the basics of FDSing, DA or any Tech that might raise understanding, or use the comm. cycle for a change.

    The ramifications if you do so on a widely attended blog are quite great. The first, RCS way, breeds that what you resist and the more people who read it, the more of it you’ll get.

    The latter tends to clear up the MU’s carefully implanted in the general public to accomplish the first, not just in the person you’re talking to but also in all the others who read it and who had the same considerations.

  300. Oh, if so, never mind then….

  301. There aren’t any subtitles on the video that I watched.

  302. Formost,
    Well that’s another way of looking at it… I guess.

    How about this from LRH:
    ““It goes without saying that everything you are working on – I refuse to leave any errors in it just to be right.”

    “I don’t consider that repute is more important than getting the job done. I don’t care what you think of my repute, I’m going to go on being honest. When I find something wrong, why, I jolly well reserve the right to say so. And when I have been wrong I have uniformly been the first one to tell you. When something can be improved and make the job easier for you, I don’t care what it invalidates, I’m going to tell you.” Lecture, 26 July 1962, part of the St. Hill Special Briefing Course.

    No need to be ‘thin-skinned’ about LRH’s so-called ‘repute’, he certainly wasn’t. As a Scientologist, and as perfectly demonstrated by the very Opening Piece of this thread, YOU have all the means to be pan-determined and cause over life, including this here post you are commenting on.

    Chill bro’.

  303. >Modifying or cancelling certain LRH policies has to be on the table for this to occur.

    I don’t agree. What is needed is better Scientologists who actually read the policies, understand them, understand the purpose and intention of LRH in writing these policies and placing them within the doctrine very specifically, and carefully. Scientologists who apply the policies from the perspective of understanding, not under duress.

    For “Fair Game” and “Disconnection” to have been applied at all, in the absence of any truly really good Scientology PR, has been criminal. To have been using it against “Grandma, who only knows about Scientology what she got from her own personal cults” all these years.. forget it: Fair Game is not applicable in this situation, in my opinion.

    Fair Game is a very delicate policy and it is a drastic, dire one, but it definitely has its uses, and to remove any education about Fair Game as a process for handling situations in ones life, would be a serious omitted in the philosophy of Scientology.

    If Fair Game is to be applied in the future, it is to be applied with HIGH ARC and KRC, effectively: BUT ONLY IN UTTERLY DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES, and certainly never against critics or only as a handling for some PR flap. Fair Game is the end of all PR, by the way, and is a dire survival tactic; but it *is* a tactic, and should be understood.

    Against the rioters attempting to burn your building and drag your staff out on the streets for a lynching, if all else fails: Fair Game is applicable, and therefore worth educating staff on. Fair Game is valuable as a policy in only the direst of circumstances; where even Government itself, has already failed.

    Fair Game has its time, and its place: when you HAVE to fight back. I wouldn’t consider applying it, though, in an Org situation in anything less than a near-total, or total, failure of the state (as in, Civil) and would be applying it with Org Staff in protecting someone from a psychopath.

    Would I apply Fair Game in a terrorist situation in a big Org? You bet.

    Now, HANDLE, or DISCONNECT. Definitely mis-applied, definitely a supressive use of the technology of disconnection, which purpose has been perverted over the years in lieu of truly effect handlings.

    But, for sure, there are times when disconnect is *the* handling for the situation. Ever taken a real prostitute whose pimp is scouring the city trying to find them into session? I have; and it won’t happen unless disconnect has been very well done.

    So you see, these policies have a purpose, and they have a meaning. That they have been criminally applied by psychopaths installed in the corporate body known as the Church of Scientology is definitely unfair to those of use who may well use these policies, effectively, and with good purpose and results, to improve conditions in life.

  304. +1

  305. It’s great that you allow different viewpoints and did some investigating yourself. Just up the effort and try to find more and different data, not just from one side. Let’s leave psychiatry for another time indeed; next to Scientology I’ve spend a lot of time investigating that issue from all sides and learned a lot. btw: POP is braindead indeed.

  306. Der Tonarm bewegt sich wieder ! VWD !

  307. Interesting. As there is clearly a distinction between the RCS and independents, if LRH was an independent Scn, and in Germany, would this be the All Clear?

  308. Mike – do yo mean this one?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  309. Dear Marty,
    I have had many difficult years as a public SCN, trying to make things “go right.” I began reading your blog in recent months and it has helped me to sort out my own pain and fears. But, that is a subject for another day.
    Today you have done something I never thought could happen. You have separated crazy COS actions from the incredibly sane tech— in front of the whole world. You have been through much, yet have the courage to rise up and tell the truth no matter how painful. Your presentation in Germany was incredibly clear . . . your points salient and sane. Today you may have just marked a new path for Scientology. I believe that LRH would be proud of you.

  310. Marty, thank you for all your hard work and the hard work you will do in the future. You really are making a very big difference and I must say, I wouldn’t want anyone other than you over there in Germany telling it like it is. I found the “In-Scns” outside of the building rather amusing, yet extremely pitiful and ridiculous looking in their horrible costumes and miserable expressions. I feel sorry for them and I hope that by the end of your stay that they become Independents.



  311. When the 7 man German Film Crew (in Liason with French TV) visited the United States a couple of months ago, I was asked for an interview. I spent a long evening on camera which went right into the night. (several hours)

    I did not hold back. OSA/RTC had sent Squirrel Busters to ring my bell in my private residence the evening before and I was in no mood to be reticent.

    I am a mom that lost my son Alexander Jentzsch to this criminal entity. It is a hard pill to swallow that I let him join the Sea Org and this is the end result.

    Having lied to Alexander and spun the black propaganda on me, they not only got him disconnected from me, but

    1) Got Alexander to Guide me to the malicious hate tabloid web site they built on me with lies fabricated out of whole cloth.
    2) Despicably OSA used my own son to spy on me. They used Alexander to befriend my former CPA and Lawyer Jim Jackson to pump him for information on me.
    3) Alexander Jentzsch ~~ an OSA Spy ~~ it breaks my heart.

    Back to the German Film crew ~~~
    I covered FAIR GAME (Heck the “Church set me up for peddling children for underage sex after 35 years of contribution !)

    I covered the ABUSES, the domination hierarchy of the Sea Org, and told stories never revealed before. We will see what makes the final edits.

    Happily, I connected the German Film Crew up with significant other whistle blowers which subsequently got interviewed.

    At one point I was asked what I thought of Ursula Caberta.

    Of course I had been ingrained in the masterful “Church” propaganda of how Germans lost their jobs and got children kicked out of school because of Ursula….. etc etc etc.
    The Church had painted her as a monster.

    “So Karen, what is your view of Ursula Caberta?” I was asked on camera.

    I was silent for a moment and thought about it.

    Ursula gets people kicked out their jobs for being Scientologists ?
    I happened to know of plenty of Scientologists who lost their job because OSA. I happened to know of Scientology kids kicked out of Scientology schools once their parents became Indies or spoke out against the abuse. (We have a top poster here Sam Domingo who’s kids were ousted from Greenfield school)

    I answered head on ~~ I was asked a direct question, I gave a direct answer.

    “Ursula was AHEAD of her time.” I responded
    “She saw the abuse before I did ! She saw the vulture sharking and raping of Parishioner finance before many of us did.
    She saw the abuse of disconnection before I did.”

    There was pin drop silence in the room.

  312. Thank you for an excellent presentation and for setting the record straight! It was obviously well accepted and it was great to see high ARC at the German conference. I left the SO in 2001 after 20 years and felt the Church and SO had gone very squirrelly by then. I stayed off the commlines for years and only recently reconnected. I see that you and Mosey, Mike and Christy (and MANY others) are clearing up the lies DM has perpetrated. THANKS for exposing the actions he used to lay waste to LRH tech and the Church of Scientology. Terry Brawley

  313. /////

  314. Another great blow to the cult and great PR for Indies by a true Ambassidor for the cause.
    Thank you Marty (et Al)


  315. Levitra Phallus

    Thanks, Erwin. I actually will take you up on that. I’d love any suggestions on reading material or sites if you have any.

  316. Marty !….AWESOME you are.
    x 1000

  317. Jim Logan,

    Sometimes, I am so glad you are there.

    Well, I would say I’m glad you are there all the time, but some times I’m not aware that I’m glad you are there. It’s that rarification/condensation phenomenon.

    And some times, there is not “time”, so being glad that you are there has nothing to do with time, nor adverbs, nor other modifiers.

    You feckin’ fecker, you.

  318. Katrin,

    What you said got me thinking about churches and tax exemption and exchange. Here are groups, as you say, using the society’s infrastructure and not contributing to that infrastructure.

    I understand the importance of ideas to a society, but just what “ideas,” what beliefs? And how do those ideas and beliefs actually contribute and continue to contribute?

    Like a house, is there some point where the ideological mortgage is paid? Must the society continue to pay forever for ideas that this specific group did not even originate? Living off poppa’s creations and contributions.

    Shouldn’t a group contribute new ideas? Or is it okay to subsist on the legacy of one’s ancestors? The heirs using up the principle of their heritage and not adding new value.

    At what point does the exchange with a stagnate ideology become unbalanced?

    Personally, I think tax exemption for religions is foolish. When you have to pay for a moral compass, that compass becomes distorted, biased and corrupt. The money magnate pulls the needle from true north.


  319. Levitra Phallus

    I am not seeking character assassination. I only wish an honest discussion on the person who wrote the words that created the church as it exists today. LRH wrote the very policies that the current corporate church ‘leader’ uses to destroy people. It’s also a good talking point to discuss whether he uses them as they were originally intended (of which I’m learning from you all on this blog that he is misusing the written policies, and I wouldn’t have known this but not for Marty).

    Shutting me down and shutting out my voice by calling me 1.1 does nothing to help me understand your point of view. But an open discussion would.

    When I say ‘we’, I’m obviously only speaking for myself but I’m also parroting some other Anon’s posts on other forums.

  320. Cowboy Poet,
    “…that there really was no other way to do things but aesthetically. Didn’t matter what it was…especially living itself.”

    Love it.

    I can always tell when “life” has gone awry. The aesthetic is disrupted. Understanding has an aesthetic “wave.” When understanding is disrupted, theta aesthetic is disrupted. And vice versa.

  321. Expelled 4 Life

    Love it! Especially the references to picking up glasses in Hemet.

  322. Sam, count me in!

  323. The Q&A session

  324. Brian, well stated indeed!

  325. Just goes to show that one does not need to be assigned a job to do the job.

    Marty, thanks for creating and contributing what you have.

    Maybe, you deserve tax exemption as the warrior monk.

  326. Oh goodie, a chance to comment on Rons Org. Yes, they are fantastic. Am I going to do Excalibur instead of NOTs? I don’t know. I am not at that point in my life. I haven’t seen Marty make any negative comments about Bill Robertson for some time. After all, it makes sense to judge someone by their products. We do that for other deceased people all the time.

    I would like to remind people of the Church’s attempt to trademark the term “Ron’s Org”. They filed suit with WIPO attempting to claim ownership of this. Through the competent efforts of Otfried Krumpholz, also a great auditor, they did not achieve their goal. Rons Org is free to use the name freely in Europe, and the Church is prohibited from using it there. However, in the USA it works the opposite way, and is considered a valid trademark for the Church.

  327. I wrote: “>Modifying or cancelling certain LRH policies has to be on the table for this to occur.”

    Gern wrote: “I don’t agree. …”

    Gern, I read your whole post, and I do agree that the lack of “big picture” understanding of policy is a large part of this. However, when LRH (and the early execs) were on the line, cancelling/modifying/adjusting policy was the norm … it was done carefully and judiciously, but it was done with transparency and with the full view of the old cancelled/modified policies listed, with reasons why they were changed/cancelled.

    That is the sane approach.

    What we’ve had the last 30 years has been obfuscation and a pretense of “always and forever perfect policy” — that LRH could predict every possible societal, political and technological change. That was the lie that was added. And it hasn’t been working out too well.

    All I’m saying is — if it ever even gets to that point — let’s return to a sane, transparent approach, where policy change is allowed and stays in step with changes in society and the environment.

  328. Perhaps, but I think with the data now that TC, Travolta and DMs attorney etc have been tattle taling out of school so to say, a whole new complection has emerged.
    It must be a little embarrassesing for their diplomatic agencies, but such is the different angle Scientology data and effectiveness is and has been (good or bad depnding on the viewpoint) to impinge at such a high level.
    I reckon a few legal/diplomatic discussions are taking place behind closed doors to anaylise what has just occured and what to do about/with it. More than likely a whole new direction or strategy will emerge that will be a new option for them, called something like “The Rathbun Solution.”

  329. martyrathbun09

    I’ve covered this quite extensively on numerous occasions on this blog. Hubbard wrote millions of words and spoke and recorded as many. It is a running record over development over 3 1/2 decades. He advised to use the words sensibly and wisely befitting the circumstances that one confronts. Now, watch the videos – and particularly my answer to the question about what I’m doing in Hamburg with Caberta while being a Scientologist. Every single Fzer and Indie I know – and that Caberta has encountered – find the words you refer to inapplicable in the 21st Century. Caberta gets it, why can’t you?

  330. Claudio & Renata Lugli

    Dear Marty & Mosey
    we think that what you have done is of historical proportion!
    We agree with Jason view when he describes it as : This is just the first rumblings of a MAJOR EARTHQUAKE!
    Yes it is. And it is possible because of something you wrote in your recent post:
    “We never lose sight of the mountain and always have the broader, longer view in mind and keep long-term projects advancing.”
    Without the above in mind one can lose himself and never will really get accomplished.
    Thanks to you both for being there and never losing sight of the mountain!
    Claudio & Renata

  331. TO, There was actually a reform by LRH to the policies of Fair Game, Disconnection and Sec Checking in 1968 — they were effectively abolished. You could have found their cancellation in the old OECs (policy volumes) through the 1970s and up to the early 1980s, and heard them mentioned in the LRH taped lecture RJ68. These cancellations and other changes in ethics policy became known as the “Reform Code”, which had been implemented as a result of a large “public opinion poll” undertaken in UK (by the CoS) of that year, and also apparently because of complaints by the Australian gov’t around that time. There were other changes of ethics policy too, around this time, and even the Justice Codes in the “Intro to Scientology Ethics” book were reformed.

    However, by 1991, all mention of any reform or “reform code” was wiped clean from the OECs, and the new versions of Intro to Scientology Ethics had disconnection re-implemented. Further, “fair game” — though not existing in name — was alive and well in GO policies that had been reborn (confidentially) as OSA policies.

    This was all done under DM’s watch.

  332. You may have to enable them manually via the “CC” button. If it does not show up consider updating your version of macromedia flash

  333. Bruce, LRH did pass the “torch” to us, huh? 🙂

    In order to be “you”, in order to be “free”, you have to be an auditor.

  334. J. Swift video above, ends with a spoof on Claire Headley’s blow.

    At the end of the video the Assistant wants to blow so is asking to get a Doctor’s exam for eye glasses in Hemet !

    This is how Claire Headley blew.

    It is known as the ” Jan Simms Blow method. ” See p323 of Marc Headley’s Blown for Good.

    Jan Simms was an RTC staff member who wanted out. So she faked a Doctor’s appointment and went to the Doctor and never returned…..

    So the “Jan Simms” method is asking for Doctor’s appointment and then FLEEING the Sea Org forever !

    Of course, this is a church where one has no freedom to come and go. No longer is a Sea Org member permitted to have a medical appointment with GUARDS and ESCORTS ! They might FLEE !
    You are just about imprisoned when asking to leave…..

    +++++You might have to threaten suicide to leave !
    +++++You might have to call Law enforcement or Sheriff’s to ask for an escort out
    +++++You will be asked for your CRIMES for months on end. Only a CRIMINAL would want to Flee !

    Many things were a turning point for me. Blown for Good the Book kept me up all night…

    I sent at least 20 copies to Law enforcement, and it was well received.


    I have nothing but praise for Marty’s actions by truthfully blowing the whistle on the main points of corruption and abuse.
    Sunshine really does disinfect !

    I am betting more Governments of the world and Government Officials will turn to Marty. This is Church of Scientology history in the making…

  335. Dr. Faust, Krautfag and Anonymous Hamburg,

    You all are to be greatly commended for your helpfulness in documenting this vitally important event.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  336. I think that means she is going to flee. 😀

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologists

  337. martyrathbun09 | September 8, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Reply

    “I’ve covered this quite extensively on numerous occasions on this blog. Hubbard wrote millions of words and spoke and recorded as many. It is a running record over development over 3 1/2 decades. He advised to use the words sensibly and wisely befitting the circumstances that one confronts. Now, watch the videos – and particularly my answer to the question about what I’m doing in Hamburg with Caberta while being a Scientologist. Every single Fzer and Indie I know – and that Caberta has encountered – find the words you refer to inapplicable in the 21st Century. Caberta gets it, why can’t you?”

    Below something I’ve posted many times, and which I think Marty is referring to here:-

    HCOPL 13 MARCH 1965 Issue 3

    ” Periodic sweep-outs of antiquated and didactic laws [rather than general concepts and subpurposes ] MUST be undertaken by a being,
    organisation, group or race or species.”

  338. Most Excellent, and Well Done Mr. Rathbun!

    I was particularly moved and impressed by what was probably the most difficult and uncomfortable time for you during the press conference–which was when you were talking about the madness at Gold during your last months there, and what you “found” yourself doing to your friend Mike Rinder. It was hard to watch you speak about that, but I admire the vulnerability and courage it took for you to speak about this in front of a room full of strangers. Regret is a painful feeling, but when I saw you “clearing your throat” repeatedly during that part of your talk, I understood the “why” of why you are doing what you are doing. I believe that honest regret can lead to redemption–I saw that in action as I watched the video of the press conference.

    Again, very well done.

  339. Michael, Churches are not given tax exemption because of their ideologies and ideas, they are given tax exemption because historically they “give something back to society” of tangible value (e.g. feeding or housing the homeless, teaching the illiterate, providing food or clothing during calamities, building houses, etc.), that society at large agrees is of value and in the public good.

    The truth is, if the Church of Scientology truly DID fund and provide requested and needed assistance to victims of tragedy, this would be a good thing. Instead, the “Volunteer Ministers” are expected to largely fund themselves, are used as “photo ops” and “stat opportunities” during DM’s events, and as propaganda to get more “IAS donations”. And while TWTH is a wonderful booklet, it’s not what flood or earthquake victims need in the days and weeks after their homes and lives have been devastated.

    Further, the ABLE groups pay the CHURCH money, instead of being funded BY the Church. That’s the reverse of how the rest of the churches/temples in society operate.

    If the Church of Scientology wants the benefits of being a “church”, then it has to act like one.

  340. Wow, this is great. Thanks Anonymous! That first half is completely new footage that I don’t think we’ve seen here yet (even including the reporter’s questions). Thank you!

  341. I had started to say protect ‘the church’ and changed it to Scientology. Should have dropped the ‘the’.

  342. “My tone arm is floating!” LOL. Love it! (Thank you 🙂

  343. This is how Claire Headley blew.

    Ahhhh … that’s what it was. Thanks for explainin’, Karen.

  344. plainoldthetan

    Marty: Looks like there might be some unaddressed BPC on the events leading to your departure from the Sea Org and Int Base. It got me to wondering. Who audits the auditor? I’m willing to give it a go…

  345. Thanks for coming out Terry, welcome to the Indies!

  346. one of those who see

    Hi Jeff,
    Great day for a reunion. Some new people writing in and the pioneers too. (new wave-I’m sure the 80’s wave of pioneers are here too)
    Always great to hear from you Jeff. All the best!!

  347. plainoldthetan

    “I was not aware that LRH asked his adherents to question even his own policies and spur change” I don’t recall that LRH said that people should question his writings “and spur change”. My recall is that he never wanted to hear “it’s true because Ron says it’s true”, and that he expected people to “inspect” before accepting. Does anyone have the LRH quote where he said to “spur change”?

  348. Right to the heart of the matter. Love your insight and the way you communicate it.

  349. Amen!

  350. +++++ WOW +++++

    This is huge.
    History is being made.

    And here I say it again:
    Germany is one of the most democratic and socially adjusted countries of the world.
    Of course, Germany is not perfect but, HOW IS?
    The Germans are not stupid and most of the times very helpful and tolerant people.

    At this moment in history I would trust a hundred times more for real help and true and impartial justice, if need, the German government and there institutions, then the corporate “Church”.

    IMHO, 95% of the problems the CofS has in Germany are self created.
    About 3-4% are as a result of the natural resistance and effort of a being to hold on to the Status Quo and maybe as a very broad estimation 1-2 % are problems caused by real enemies.

    I love the Philosophy of Scientology.

    I love Germany.

    Ich liebe Deutschland.

    Thank you Marty.

    PS: You look great and made a great interview.
    You speak very clear and truth words.

    If I remember correctly that is SENIOR policy!

  352. Levitra Phallus

    Marty, I do get it now. I didn’t before but I do now, and I was wrong in my previous thinking/judgments so I was trying to state as much. I have a new appreciation for the FZ and your own practices, so I thank you for helping me see this.

  353. Markus Lanz interview with Marty (Marty talks in English) rest is in German: The show aired on German TV about 11pm their time.

  354. I’m with you OUaT, Logan is simply transcendental.

    Feckin’ fecker is right.

  355. Jim wrote: “You are well aware of the extant LRH policy on review and adjustment …”

    I am indeed. I’ve quoted from it many times. Additionally, there are (or were) specific LRH policies of how to issue policies not by LRH and/or how to make adjustments to existing LRH policy. These all seem to have vanished in the latest (1991) OECs.

    Jim, I think we’re on the same page.

  356. LP, in my experience the “blind faith” and “black/white thinking” comes from people who don’t really understand or know much of what LRH had to say and who substitute parroted phrases for actual observation of what is in front of their faces.
    I’ve often observed that some people seem to think that if they chant the right words or assume the right attitude that everything is going to come out all right. All I’ve ever been able to figure out about that is that they have the practice of Scientology confused with some earlier practice. But there may be a possible explanation for the “blind faith” and “black and white thinking” you are talking about.

  357. Right on Karen! Right ON! 🙂 Right to the point and RIGHT ON!

  358. Brillant Jim, slick and to the point.

  359. I have heard someone say that everything LRH wrote was written by somebody else earlier. Now I don’t think that this is true and I trust what LRH says, I am just not so certain about his policy on decorating Christmas trees. If an Ethics Officer came to my house at Christmas and looked at our Christmas tree I am sure I would be declared! 🙂

  360. Bryon,
    It should actually be called Bill’s Org. LRH had nothing to do with it, or the technical materials Bill Roberston formulated. Zip. Zero. Nothing. It’s not Scientology tech, by definition.

    Safeguarding Technology is very much an applicable policy as regards the Bill’s Org materials beyond OT III. Caveat Emptor.

  361. NOTE: I don’t know exactly what is what below OT III either, but apparently there are some who espouse nothing of LRH’s material beyond 1972 for reasons that, well…they’ll tell you. Oddly enough they refute New Era Dianetics yet embrace Bill’s rendition of New Era Dianetics for OTs.

    All based on the FALSE datum that LRH was not alive or incommincado or non compos mentis from varying dates of 72 to say 80 ish. All based on Bill Robertson’s personal experience, and contrary to the rest of those who were actually there, with LRH.

  362. A song-

  363. Sara,
    Ear to ear grin.

  364. Nice to have you here Terry. And wherever you may be!

  365. I simply wish you well.

  366. dahlia,
    I agree with you. That point of confront on Marty’s part was cathartic. In those moments, and with that courage, I too faced up.

    We all benefit from this man’s character. From his ethos.

    And move on up a little higher.

  367. Wow – total theta, and my German isn’t even that good. I am so happy to see this.

  368. So good to see you here!
    Much Love,

  369. Marty, the last few days have been the very best ones in a long time. I had forgotten what it felt like – but it’s coming back to me now!

    Awesome job, well done.

  370. Plainoldthetan, I think LRH tried to be as right as he could, and was confident in his rightness. But he also acknowledged that policies and laws could become didactic and/or no longer applicable (refs: “THE STRUCTURE OF ORGANIZATION: WHAT IS POLICY?” and the “Interpretation of Policy” section of “EXPANSION: THEORY OF POLICY”), and further described ways in which policies could be created, cancelled and/or amended (refs: “COORDINATION COMMITTEES AND MANAGEMENT COMMITTEES”, “TECH AND POLICY REDISTRIBUTION”, “POLICY: SOURCE OF”).

    In the old OEC (policy) Volumes from the 70s, there were explicit LRH or LRH-approved policies on how Church staff members could propose policy and how Church management would approve/issue/modify/cancel proposed or existing policies. For example, the OEC Vols from as recently as 1980 had an LRH-approved policy called “HOW TO SUBMIT A PROPOSED POLICY LETTER” (Vol 0, HCO PL 13-MAY-1969). This HCO PL no longer exists in the (most recent) 1991 OEC Volumes.

    The LRH policy letter “POLICY: SOURCE OF”, however, does still exist and describes how the “International Board” of the CoS has final authority over the issuanace/modification/cancellation of all official Church policies (including HCO PLs). As we have learned these last two years, David Miscavige has appointed himself the only individual with any authority on this so-called “Board”.

  371. Woo hoo!

  372. Helmuth, There were reports from Freezoners in Germany saying that just being associated with or agreeing with anything that LRH said or wrote, was sufficient reason to not get hired for civic jobs in Germany. Not sure how accurate that was (or how widespread it was), but it was coming from non-CoS Scientologists. I suspect that the tide has been turning recently (wrt Freezoners) in Germany, but those were the reports we were hearing over the last couple of years.

  373. Ibero,
    You have gone off on a tangent in your ad hominem. My point is that they are quite simply not doing LRH OT levels but are putting people on wierd levels sourced by Bill.

  374. Marty, you are one awesome speaker – I have enjoyed your eloquently presented DM Head-shot!!! He is going down!!! 😉 😉 😉 …

  375. Sinar,
    Thank you for posting this!
    You were awesome!

  376. Love!!! the “have to pick up my glasses…” comment 😉 …

  377. The great thing is, being an indie requires no enforced, robotic hip hip hooray’s. All I have to say is “Great fucking job, Marty! Really really great work, man!”

  378. Oh Sinar, this looks great. It’s like a German Oprah interview … I really wish now I could speak German … it’s hard to make out what Marty is saying over the voice-over translation in German, but you can tell that the questions are at the level of the common public. I sure hope this one makes it up with English sub-titles. This looks like a key 20+ minutes of great interview …

    (And Steve (Hall) … I saw you in the audience! You made it to Germany for this you lucky dog. Wish I could have joined you.)

  379. Mat-I’m sure you have alot of interesting stories while being in treasury.

  380. Spot on.

    Very sane viewpoint !!!

  381. I found it with English subtitles on youtube. Here’s the link:

    (Thank you to Ackerland2 and/or whoever is adding these subtitles.)

  382. Behold, for I present to you this:

  383. Fully subtitled version of the Markus Lanz show with Marty and Caberta courtesy of Anonymous:


  384. (Well, the translation isn’t the best … but probably better than none at all.)

  385. Markus Lanz show on YT with English subtitles:

    Part 1.

  386. Thanks to the German Indies & Anons!

  387. There is to be no more “Church of Scientology” holding trademarks and copyrights and monopolies and central policies and “your eternity” in its inept and incompetent, cowardly hands.

    DELIVER WHAT YOU PROMISE. The whole subject of Scientology is on trial here. Instead of delivering freedom, intelligence, and love, the church delivered enslavement, stupidity, and hatred.

    Did you not listen to what Mrs. Caberta said? The Co$ is dead, extinct, expired … it is an ex-church. It is not ‘just napping’. The subject in its entirety is being given a second chance. There will not be a third chance.

  388. Terry — Nice to see you posting here. Hope all is well down your way. Hope to get back to vsit you again soon now that the weather isnt so hot!

  389. I am not seeking character assassination. I only wish an honest discussion on the person who wrote the words that created the church as it exists today.

    He is known by his writings. Exactly what is there to discuss?
    There has been plenty of information posted on LRH’s Life from every conceivable corner on the internet you could study for the next decade onward. I do however caution you that most of it has written by those with yet another axe to grind. Their agenda is usually the very first thing one notices.

    LRH wrote the very policies that the current corporate church ‘leader’ uses to destroy people.

    LRH policies are never used to destroy anyone. It’s the lack of their proper application and/or other actions contrary to LRH policies that could be harmful.

    David Miscavige thinks he needs to walk in LRH’s Shoes as a “Second Coming” Commander when in Fact the Scientology Structure after LRH’s Departure was to be run via Boards, Committees, Checks & Balances. That is the very Basic on the Chain of Policy Violations. Furthermore, he thinks he’s Scientology’s “Spiritual Leader”. There is no such Thing, merely a Figment of his Imagination and again, no such policy, position or responsibility exists.

    Shutting me down and shutting out my voice by calling me 1.1 does nothing to help me understand your point of view.

    Aside from the fact no inference was ever made about you personally … it all depends.

    Exactly what are you seeking to understand by having people who only know LRH by his writings acknowledge his Faults? Tell me how does that helps you to understand Scientology Technology? Do you ever study any of it and apply it to your life?

    “Shutting me down and shutting out my voice” is entirely your own Fabrication.

  390. Tony DePhillips

    You are one gutsy lady.

  391. Thanks for the Quote.

    LRH’s repute is not the point.

  392. Tony DePhillips


  393. Tory Christman

    Excellent! This is SO historical, and yes, Thank you to Marty and to Ursela
    for meeting each other, and hearing each other. Davey boy has to be having a major heart attack over this. Also, my greatest thanks to ALL the Ex-Scientologists who have fought long and hard for many, many years, to expose these very abuses.

    In the 90’s thanks to OSA’s work, the “Critics” were created (People who never, ever did Scientology–but began standing up for Scientologists as Scientology cannot push people away on the Net–“not on our watch”.

    After in 2008, came Anonymous who MAJORLY changed things for many, many people. People who had been speaking out without their names began to say their names, and their titles, write books, and TONS more began to leave.

    Most recently, Marty and Mike left and created Marty’s blog which many Independents now speak out on. That Marty is meeting with Ursela in German is truly amazing. Bless you ALL 🙂 Tory/Magoo

  394. Tony DePhillips

    I saw no English subtitles on any of those clips.

  395. Geeze, I didn’t know. Thanks!

  396. Thank you.

  397. Li Po (Olivier Gilet)

    From the 7th ACC “Things in time and space”:
    “Now, any system is the antithesis of self-determinism and this goes for Scientology as well as anything else. Any system is the antithesis of self-determinism. The expression of self-determinism of locating things in time and space will bring your preclear up pretty far,but the truth of the matter is, there are higher levels to reach than those reached simply by locating things in time and space. But you have to be able to locate …know by locating things,be self-determined by locating things in time and space before you can go upstairs and, and otherwise.”

  398. Wow, you made my eyes water with that reference.

    Thanks, you’re a wonderful being.

  399. 1) don’t hit the cc button
    2) if that doesn’t work update adobe flash

  400. These types of arguments only create further noise and reasons for us to split up. Don’t go there. Attempts to instill opposition amongst the people who have left the Church is a primary action of DM and OSA and though filtered by the moderators of this blog, still manages to creep into these threads by the share volume of blogs and websites covering the subject.

    Marty has pointed it out time and again and I’m repeating it here. The various views of LRH and whether this or that is good/bad are pointless and only prove that you don’t have a fundamental grasp of the material LRH wrote.

    Whether some piece of controversial information about LRH has truth to it or not, is not important. He never claimed to be perfect and he never claimed Scientology was perfect, but he claimed it was workable. This is the important factor. If you fully grasp the material with conceptional understanding, it is workable. That’s all.

    LRH found that trying to organize any sort of groups to administer the tech was necessary as he couldn’t do it all on a one-on-one basis. But due to pure stupidity, lack of understanding, personal vested interests or pure destructive intentions, LRH found it almost impossible to leave the organization up to someone else. He spent countless hours trying to formulate policy to handle all these factors. At times when things were especially asinine he may have written policy that was overly dictatorial, but often later he revised it when he found that this too created problems.

    All he really tried to do was to create a machine to forward the tech into society to help the society and he tried many ways and means to accomplish such. There is a back story to every new policy letter and change. Without knowing the back story, it is sometimes hard to understand the policy, but it becomes clear if one understands the circumstances.

    LRH never wanted to be deified. He made it very clear in “My Philosophy” and many other essays. Some extremists have spent thousands of hours to find faults with LRH as a person, while DM and Dan Sherman has spent thousands of hours portraying LRH as some sort of Uberman. Both are extremism and irrelevant in the overall picture.

    Even the arguments of what tech is valid or not only shows a lack of understanding. The basic factors of the NOTS band are factually covered in DMSMH. LRH didn’t know all the factors in 1950 but he knew what gave results and he said so very clearly repeatedly and it was the only thing that mattered. Later he uncovered more and more factors behind why things were the way they were, and the actual origin of things and the tech got revised and streamlined. But also know a lot of the streamlining was to make others able to create a Clear or an OT. LRH created OTs back in 1952 and by the time of Creation of Human Ability he had it fully outlined, but, only he with all the knowledge he gained consistently obtained results. The rest of the 50’s and 60’s were spent trying to get others to obtain the same results – all for the purpose of making the technology available to the masses to help improve mankind.

    KSW #1 was written after the organization was practically destroyed due to people with a lack of grasp of the material had their own ideas which simply weren’t beneficial. This is clearly described under the group think sections of KSW. Maybe this reference was too dictatorial, but it was written because LRH had observed that any attempt to “improve” the technology failed and made it unworkable, the one premise LRH knew he had achieved and the ONLY premise he repeatedly stated Scientology was about.

    Even observe the amount of views among the independents. Bill Robertson is/isn’t correct. David Mayo is/isn’t correct – several individuals dedicating their life to “improve” the technology or find better ways. Maybe there are better ways but unless one has the full knowledge of life the chance one comes up with a more workable technology is rather small and hence one runs into the “no result” factor which is the only real threat to making Scientology not “work” and hence be available for mankind to improve their conditions. Sure, this is supposed to be a free world, so I don’t want to spoil anyone’s ambitions, but don’t spread your theories all over these websites until you have it 100% worked out, tested and proven. Then you can announce it if its beneficial to one and all.

    It is completely pointless to investigate LRH as a private person. It is pointless whether he was a war hero or not, it is pointless what he did within his personal family, etc. What is important is that he formulated a technology designed to help mankind and it was workable. Any organizational actions or policy were written with this intent. The end result wasn’t always what was predicted and hence some things changed, but it was still the basic intention.

    Let’s just stick to this basic intention and protect the Scientology technology to be applied in the way it is workable because that’s constructive, and any technology or policy which can be interpreted as abusive or any other negative means is most likely either taken out context in the historical development, or was changed, or was re-instituted by DM for reasons unknown. If one just considers LRH’s technology as workable, maybe not perfect and maybe not the only technology (as there are many other workable technologies in existence in fields concerning the betterment of a human being) then we will be on the right track and can follow LRH’s footsteps of getting a workable technology applied to mankind for the purpose of betterment for one and all. That’s the only thing important, and factually, the biggest barrier to this is just as it says in KSW, the group bank think and lack of real understanding and stupidity which is so easily observed on these types of blogs and websites where a multitude of people jump on the band wagon whenever someone posts a new controversial concept or idea.

    Let’s stick to simplicity and personal integrity and try to understand the tech in its basic workability in alignment with what is true for you and we can actually make a difference and be united as a group with the same aims, goals, purposes and intentions.

    Thanks for listening, Raul

  401. Welcome to the Indies, Terry.

  402. Margaret,

    Then it behooves the government to require some demonstration of this tangible value rather than merely accept on faith that this occurs–which it does not in many churches. The churches I attended growing up were mostly cliques/social clubs, helping their own. The churches in this city are mostly about serving their own needs. As a percentage of income, what churches spend on “tangible value” outside their group is probably fairly low. Many preachers and pastors live quite well while skirting inurement.

    Exchange always comes down to value given. So, what is “value?” A guy who can’t get a date might find sufficient value in a decent looking female roommate to let her slide on utilities, groceries, even rent. Just having her there is valuable to him, even if she thinks he’s an idiot and treats him with disdain. Just the satisfaction of having her around suffices. In a Christian society, the policy makers might find sufficient value in letting their churches slide because, hey, it’s God’s work–so why not let our good buddies slide on the rent, groceries and utilities.

    You could argue that if churches were taxed it would be tantamount to the “income” being taxed twice–when the person earns it, and (hypothetically) when he would donate it to the church. Those into stock dividends argue the same thing. After all, corporations are people too.

    Yeah, yeah, I know about the tax write-offs for donations.

    But, the joke is, income is taxed many, many times. You earn it, get taxed, spend it on something that pays a worker’s wages which get taxed, and he spends his wages on something that pays another worker’s wages which get taxed. You have a concatenation of income taxation. It’s never ending. Like rain becoming streams which rivers which become oceans which become rain.

    Ok. So you’ve got the good works theory and the double taxation theory. But, what about the real estate? I earned money, got taxed on it, bought a house, and still have to pay real estate taxes every year. Same goes for cars, boats, motor cycles. Doesn’t matter how much charitable work I do from the house, I still get taxed. So, for me, the mystery is how churches get away without paying taxes on real estate that the rest of us have to pay. Seems unfair.

    And I know of a little piece of crap who has exploited this loop hole in real estate taxation to the maximum.

    But, hey, we live in a democracy where a majority think churches should get a free ride, so what’s an agnostic to do? I think churches should pay their fair share to support the society’s infrastructure. But, I’m such a cad that I would expect my roommate to pay her share of the rent, groceries and utilities no matter how good looking she is. The throes of infatuation be damned. I’m just as valuable as she is.

    And just as valuable as a church.

  403. Formost,
    I understand.

  404. You are welcome

  405. It is First Policy, Greta. Senior policy was stuff on the order of maintaining proper schedules (study and sleep as well as work), making sure people produced worthwhile products, allowing for liberties, those kind of things that were totally out at Int. Yes, DM started at the top with his policy crushing campaign.

  406. An excellent argument for doing away with all income taxes and shifting to consumption taxes instead.

  407. Tory Christman

    Mine has German subtitles….but when in German, doesn’t have English
    subtitles. What do you mean by “Don’t hit the CC button”? (As my Adobe Flash is updated). Thanks 🙂 TLC

  408. Tory Christman

    Good job, once again, Marty and Ursela! Can or will Ursela (or anyone from Germany who has heard you and been moved by this) speak with other Governments and possibly help to move things along? Great job helping the Thursday at 2:00 Stat Crash for C of $, too. LOL..>Davey boy: You can run, but you CANNOT hide! Tick tock…..:) Oh yeah baby!!!

  409. Tory Christman

    PS: Ok, Got it! Thank you, Dr.Faust! Your explaining how to get the subtitles on (clicking the cc at the bottom of the YT video) worked.
    Very key to hear both sides. What a fantastic interview, in many ways.
    Have fun in Germany, now, Marty and Mosey, and a safe trip back home. 🙂

  410. In the 2nd interview Marty validated some of Ursula’s 1994 comments as prophetic. Urusula needed some payback, and Marty’s paid her some due, which I have to thank him for!

    It is just something that only ex senior officials of Scientology can do, which is go out and tell the people “we” attacked, that “we” were wrong.

    Official Scientology can’t do it.

    Only ex members can!

    Thanks very much for THAT Marty!

    Ursula has done a SHITLOAD with the State of Hamburg’s funding, to help former Scientologists get back on their feet after leaving Scientology.

    Good on Hamburg!

    thankyou Hamburg!

    And thankyou Urusula, for providing a free safe space for ex senior members to go speak to a sympathetic audience!

  411. Anyone want to talk on weekends about how Int Management should operate, NOT how it has operated, I’ll gladly download all I read of LRH’s final years writings to anyone who calls me. 412-260-1170

    I wish to heck someone would leak ALL of LRH’s final years private traffic to the internet.

    Anyone wanting a better future for the movement, I urge them to find out what LRH last ordered, and how his orders have still NOT been carried out!

    That is absolutely relevant, and despite all good that senior ex members do, the bottom line, is official Scientologists, still study the green vols, and the green vols are LRH.

    And how off the rails Int Management has gone under Miscavige’s direction, well the “back on the rails” means read what LRH wrote to Int Management and the top echelons.

    That info needs putting out so Scientologists can study and see how and what they want to do with what he ordered.

    There’s a massive omission of discussion of what LRH even wrote and intended for how the movement should be running.

    Miscavige isn’t mentioning it.

    I’ve seen no public appearances of WDC or Exec Strata members, and frankly, Exec Strata members OUGHT to have been the positions that were filled with the most qualified Scientologists, NOT the WDC posts, frankly. I have detailed disagreements with even the HR postings of the top roles. RTC got even “more qualified” people than CMO Int, supposedly.

    The whole point of running the movement sanely, dealing with the problems, that goddamn means manning Int Exec Strata with the smartest minds in the movement. They are supposed to be the “think tank” who know the RIGHT LRH solution for any problem.

    WDC just needed to be above to ensure Exec Strata was posted with the best on the planet. RTC should NOT have been so domineering and consumed with their power, etc, etc.

    What a huge HR disaster all the personnel trends were, over the 1980s and 90s at the Int Base.

    “think tank” is the crashing MU for Int Management. I’d have taken ALL of Int Base Int HQ and taken them to a half dozen of the top think thanks in the US, and THEN told WDC, that THAT was the type of quality Scientologists needed in the Int Exec Strata.

    Manning the Int Base, manning Exec Strata, it’s just so far from what was necessary.

    What LRH wrote will be around, and the sooner it leaks to the public Scientologists to take responsibility for their movement, the better.

    The Int Exec Strata, to me, is the management “analysis point” of how to confront and deal with the damage Scientology’s done.

  412. Chuck, Miscavige was inexperienced and incompetent … made worse by his lust for power, narcisism and violent streak. What you say is absolutely what should have happened, and I too would LOVE for one day to have LRH’s final advices see the light of day.

  413. Right on Andy!

  414. VVWD Marty! Your whole interview and Question and Answer section was a major blowdown. You did an invaluable service by getting people to differentiate between the tech and POB. This is EXACTLY what has been needed and wanted for years. I am grateful that you were given the opportunity to do so by Ursula.
    As an aside, you helped me to also blow some charge on the connection between the CofS and Clinton. I remember having a conversation with an old friend one night who told me that OSA was promoting Clinton as a good man to back up. And my instant thought was “excuse me? Is someone in OSA insane?” Now I understand. Again, thank you Marty for all you have done and are doing. You are a TRUE Scientologist.

  415. P.S. Marty….LRH would be proud of you 🙂

  416. Our Dutch parlement has decided that research on sects (cults) is needed for some reason. Last studie was 30 years ago.

  417. plainoldthetan

    Margaret: I was merely trying to point out that Levitra Phallus was phishing by pointing out there was no such LRH reference. “Questioning” does not equate to “spurring change” in my experience. Sometimes if I have questions, it means I don’t “get” the whole thing and need to look further. Also, as erudite as Levitra Phallus sounds, the exposition doesn’t sound as if LP’s done any actual Scientology. Like delivering 5000 hours in the chair before blasting it. Like serving out multiple terms on staff before blasting it.

    LRH himself saw there were outnesses needing correcting. I’ve written on many of them over at possiblyhelpfuladvice. The problem is that even if LRH ordered abuses be ceased, someone(s) kept doing them. Like HAZING.There are numerous Flag Orders and Policy Letters from 1968 which Ron issued to address abuses. It doesn’t mean they were followed. Especially after he died.

    But thanks for the references.

  418. Marty,

    Your view of the politics … i.e., use of political friends for influence with the Clinton and now the Obama administrations on behalf of Scientology … convincing them that there may be a resurgence of the NAZI thing in Germany due to their “persecution” of Scientology … I don’t buy for a moment that they are that stupid. They have all manner of intel resources, and one of the most obvious would be web chatter regarding Scientology. From that alone they could figure out that the “persecution” angle is a sack of road apples. That means that there is something in it for them, but, it is in the govt. interest to pretend that it has to do with the German govt. starting to act like NAZI’s again. What is in it for them? I would go with the Wollersheim hypothesis, that somebody who is a total zealot and an OSAbot at the same time could be asked to do things that he believes are for the Cof$ but are really for the govt. such as carrying out a false flag operation.

    Bottom line … I don’t buy that the Obama administration is that stupid or incompetent … they are just evil.


  419. It takes a man of strong character to do what you have done. You are an inspiration.
    Thank You!!!

  420. Marty’s a good guy. He’s made mistakes, but we all have. It’s hard to judge a man who has endured what he has throughout his life (lots of pain and agony), and was basically entrenched in a mind altering cult most of his life in ways most of us would never understand. He’s speaking out, he’s doing his part, and although it may not convince the masses that he’s genuine, he’s convinced me. He can study and believe whatever he wants, and his auditing is mainly free, unless you willfully donate.

    I support you Marty, and although I’m in Los Angeles, I do hope to meet you one day.

  421. I am late here with my post, but I fully agree with Gern Gaschoen’s post.

    Both, “disconnection” and “fair game” has it’s uses. But must be fully understood.
    A Golden Age of Tech drilled EO will often loose the point.
    Tech should NOT be used by ‘memory banks’. You will need a thetan to do this.

    I have seen many videos with Caberta over the years.
    I also have seen these ones. Very well done, Mr. Rathbun.
    You know your message and you know how to apply TR’s and ARC and you handled this situation well knowing that a being is good and you know how to grant beingness.

    However, Ms. Caberta must make her point about Scientology in Germany.
    She must do some TR3 on her statement “I have nothing against Scientology but agains the vulture culter and the current management”.
    This point is missing.
    In past 20 decades she made live for Scientologists very hard. That’s because she generalized the subject.
    I know what I say.
    It was the first time I heard her saying, that she has nothing against the philosophy but agains the church. Thank you very much for this!

    But, for the avarage Scientologist in germany the old “mantra” will not communicate.
    She must correct her modus operandi and use the “correct target”.
    If she really want’s to help the avarage Scientologist, she should make some “R” factors using some correct data.
    I.e. citing some LRH policy which shows how finances should be handled per LRH policy and how this is abused (best examples “The Auditor #51 / Ideal Org PL”.
    Make people listen to her.
    She must make the point what she is against.

    Too many people had a hard time because of her having not a well defined target.

    In doing so she could one day really reach the avarage (on-lines) Scientologist and this will stop money flows for “Mammon” Purposes.
    Scientology to me is spiritual teaching, perverted and monopolized in 1982 by Corporate Scientology.
    This is not known by the avarage Scientologist.
    A good being with good intentions measures others by his own standards.
    This may be his weakest point if he never learned to analyze and evaluate data.
    The “authorities” of Corporate Scientology arranged the whole thing in such a way, that the avarage parishoner can’t see the misimplementation and misapplication of data.
    One thing may help to hit those authorities hard: show he correct LRH data. Spread it widely. Do not harm the people by saying him that his “Church” is a bad institution. He won’t believe it. I never did.

    But I did lose some jobs only for the reason of being a Scientologist (so called “sect-filter”).
    This was not hard to me. I love being a Scientologist and I soon found another job.
    But it really hits you hard if you loose good friends because they have seen some talkshow about Scientology and are now afraid of being brain-washed by you.

    So, “for the gratest good for the gratest…” I think it was enough if the money-flows towards IAS / Idle Orgs would stop. And instead the money goes in the right direction: service!

    But I know what you, Marty, have done and I know that this was a good first step.
    I also liked your mock-up in the TV interview (this communicates here in Europe 🙂 )

    Please, keep on you good work!!!

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