Last night Ursula Caberta and I were the lead interview on arguably the most popular tv talk show in Germany, the Markus Lanz show. Some have posted links to a Youtube download in the comments section to the last post. I am providing a direct link to show’s webpage here, http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/1433942/Scientology-Aussteiger-Marc-Rathbun–. At least here in Germany you can hear my voice better than on the youtube versions. If someone comes up with a subtitled version Mike Rinder might be able to substitute it here today. Mosey and I will be out and about Germany today. From the reaction of German audience members and Mr. Lanz and other production crew I have a feeling this might wind up having more far-reaching effects than day one’s events.
For any Indies who can make it to Hamburg by Saturday a.m. you are invited to join us for a briefing by me and a meeting amongst us. It will be held at 10:30 am. in a reserved conference room at the Hamburg Ministry of Interior: 4 Johanniswall, at the corner of Johaniswall and Altstadterstrasse. Be sure to bring your passport as you will need it to gain entrance to the building. Any potential OSA agents, recognize attempted infiltration will constitute a felony which will be prosecuted. If you think you might make it contact Steve Hall – text at 214-450-1355 or email firstname.lastname@example.org. He is here in Hamburg making waves.
We should wrap up the meeting by just after noon. We will then hit the streets and parks and just rap. We may even take you to a wonderful, circa 19th century authentic German Pub and Grille Mosey and I discovered while wandering the streets last night, for some mean schnitzel, fish soup and Deutschland Riesling.
Have a great day.
Here is a version with not very accurate captioning of my responses. Hopefully, someone may come up with more accurate ones.
accurate translation of the second video:
MARKUS LANZ: What is difficult to understand is this: You’re sitting here telling what’s happening and complaining about it and rightly so in my opinion. At the same time you’re saying “I am adhering to the teachings. I’m still a Scientologist”. Why?
MARTY: Because I’m talking about conduct, I’m talking about secular conduct and how they interact with the world, and how they deal with people in the world who know about them, such as Ursula Caberta … VERSUS … belief, practice, how you follow your path to a higher place. These are two separate things.
And that’s my message.
And I think that what I’ve found in Germany is that Ms. Caberta, contrary to what they’re alleging against her, feels the same way. If you want to go into the privacy of your home and do what you want to do that’s going to help you spiritually, go ahead and do it. But if you go out onto the street, and you start doing coercive tactics, if you start playing politics, if you start ruining lives … that’s, that’s not protected.
And so I see they’re two different things, I’m differentiating.
Markus, let me tell you. I don’t think anyone has attempted this before, because I get attacked from both sides. It’s a difficult place to be, in the middle. But I’m going to tell you something. Ultimately, it is probably the most effective thing from her perspective too, because for the first time in the history of Scientology, inside active Scientologists are listening to my message, because I’m not attacking the practice, the belief, and the peaceful practice of what they’re there for.
And so … You know, there’s a big ban on listening to the Cabertas, or the people that don’t [have familiarity with] the organization. They don’t read the papers, they won’t watch this show. But, because I don’t go after that, a lot of people get the message who wouldn’t otherwise get the message.
[Conversation between Markus Lanz and Ursula Caberta, transcribed directly from German into English in the video.]
MARKUS LANZ: Fanaticism is the cue. As a conclusion I’d like to have Marty tell about the inner life of the organization again. Is it true that employees are regularly exposed to vicious physical violence?
MARTY: Yes sir, and as a matter of fact, Vaughn Young, who she [Ursula] talked about, turned out to be prophetic because — and this is partly why I left — because he [Miscavige] got to be more zealous and more zealous … into fanatical … into maniacal.
But from the year 2000 on, Miscavige literally began to regularly use physical violence on the highest managers in Scientology. And ultimately — and this kept escalating over time — during the early 2000s up to a point … by late 2003, he literally locked 80 Church of Scientology managers in a room about the size of this studio, and he made them stay there 24/7. They couldn’t go out to eat. They couldn’t go out to … to go to bed. They had to sleep on the floor. And then they had to do these group confessional situations, where they would have to get up and confess “thought crimes” against David Miscavige. If he didn’t like the “thought crime” — if he didn’t think it was juicy enough, if he didn’t think it was sexy enough, if he didn’t think it was evil enough — he would BEAT the person in front of everybody.
THEN he began to make everybody else do the same to others. In fact, I was asked if that was an incident for me. I was finally put in there only for three days, because by the third day, I escaped. Because I just … to me …
MARKUS LANZ: So you beat employees back then?
MARTY: Yes, as a matter of fact, my own good friend who I worked with for many many years, Mike Rinder, and I … I was directed specifically by Miscavige to do it to him. And the second time — and it was shown on the opening video — there was a point where I realized I was doing things that were against my nature, and against my rationale … and stepped out of it. And shortly after that I got on my motorcycle and escaped through the security gate. And I’ve never been back.
MARKUS LANZ: What is your recommendation to people who say “I want out” after this appearance, but who fear possible reprisals?
MARTY: What I recommend to them is go to my blog markrathbun.wordpress.com. That’s an effective way to deal with this sword of Damocles that they have over everybody’s head, this fear.
If more and more people stand up, then ultimately they [the CoS] won’t have the resources and means to do this to everybody.
And I think if we clearly hit that point, now with so many people standing up, and standing courageously, and then creating a network, that they can’t effectively do this [create the fear].
I think what’s going on — and the reason why they’ve put so many people on me now — I think Miscavige has decided that the only way to make people afraid of this kid [Miscavige] … is to take out the guy who said: “the best way to combat him, is to not be afraid of him”.
MARKUS LANZ: Thank you very much for visiting our studio, to you Ms. Caberta and to you, Mark [Marty]. I wish you all the best and that the worst fears won’t come true.