Trouble Down Under for Miscavige:
In case it was lost on anyone, check out Karnac – I mean Mike – Rinder accurately predicting the future. Actually, not difficult for a guy who understands Miscavige better than he understands himself.
Also, More on Germany:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/marty_rathbun_e.php
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Some more media from Australia:
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ombudsman-draft-raises-scientology-slavery/story-e6frfku0-1226136255389
Thanks to the ever growing number of whistle blowers around the world, governments and their citizens are really starting to understand and predict the actions of Miscavige and radical Scientology. The lies, smoke and mirrors are getting less and less effective. The “show” is coming to a close. Some day soon thousands of friends and families will be able to reunite.
That is GREAT news!! I hope the cult has to pay back wages for the people that were suckered by them and used. Thanks to Mike Rinder for all of his work down under.
Great job to you again Marty and Mosey for the excellent work in Germany. It looks like the fallout from that will be occuring for a long time.
That’s my friend, Mike Rinder! And a whole buncha unreasonable Aussies who refuse to sit down and shut up! God bless ’em.
JM
DM’s speech at the forthcoming IAS event will be worth analysing carefully this year; I was reading a report today about the explosive growth in exports of scotch whiskey, wondering what could possibly be fuelling the demand http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2036184/Whisky-galore-Scotch-global-shipments-leap-22.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
You gotta almost – just almost – feel sorry for the little one.
I do not find anything unusual about this. When I worked for the Church of Scientology of New York 50+ hours a week I was paid $3.85 a week. When I was in the Sea Org for weeks I was never even paid and my Supervisor was paid $1.50 a week for a 13 day week with one day off. It is normal for people to look into these kind of financial allegations.
Excellent reports, all. It would be monumental if they were found liable for wages as I am sure the strained funds of the church would not stretch as far as to cover everyone involved.
Brick by brick, wall by wall, the edifice that is the CofM is crumbling. While the idiots are building MEST, the true structure is about to collapse.
I made $17.20 per week when I was on staff years ago – when I got paid. This was less than a quarter of the minimum wage at the time ($2.20 per hour, or $88.00 per 40 hour – ha! – week). You could argue that I was being fed and sheltered. Sure – beans and rice at the base, and sharing a room with 3-5 other guys, and a bathroom with more.
But, you know what? From my perspective (as a teenager), I was cool with it – I was on a mission from God, as we all were. Who cares as long as we were helping people out of this mire? MEST was not a goal for me, and I was not unhealthy (although, God forbid if I ever did get into an accident or got sick. In fact, I did have the flu for a week. Worked anyway).
But to the degree we were truly helping people, it was a non-issue. It was fun, actually. I would never have pulled the trigger for a lifetime(s) of that, like the SO folks I worked with, but I had NO attention on the work environment until things got weird.
Now, we have this: the reason Australia has a case is because the Church is no longer doing what it was doing – truly helping people. Now, we have people on staff and off being a sales vector for the insatiable appetite of the IAS, Miscavige, and his minions, and being part of a phalanx of lying mouthpieces denying EVERYTHING no matter how obvious the outpoints are.
So now it is no longer a bunch of kids on a lark helping the world go free. Now it is a machine using people to prop up a shell and to extract $$$ from anyone and anybody, while lying about their “products.”
The SO, the church, and Scientology will never be what it was back in the ’70s and early ’80s, which is truly too bad, even with the occasional dirt that happened at the time. But, the good news is Scientology is really better now – now that we are no longer forced into the straight-jacket of conformity.
I don’t want to sound too airy-fairy, or make light of the continuing stream of bad deeds and crimes coming from the CofM, but:
Despite the viciousness of Mr. Dave and his minions, it has become a lark once again. That is REALLY what Mr. David and his droids is afraid of: Uptone people doing uptone things.
It shows yet again how different the Sea Org has become from when LRH was running the show. We would get $20 a week but it covered expenses beyond accomodation, uniforms, food, medical expenses etc.
During 10 years in the Sea Org from 1972 to 1982 I had around 650 hours of auditing and did around 1000 hours solo as well as completing many many courses. On occasions there were stints of long hours in an emergency but it was perhaps 5% of the time. The rest of the time there was ample sleep time.
In 1975 the GO ordered us to spend an hour a day on the beach relaxing!
I’m not saying the SO was anything like a holiday just that when LRH was around people could expand across the dynamics.
His orders regarding older people was that they should continue to have staff accommodation even when they could not work with an allowance to cover personal expenses. Retirees would remain part of the Sea Org Community. I don’t think I need to guess to figure who rescinded that LRH policy. According to LRH abortions were an indication of evil purposes on the 2nd Dynamic policy.
We need to work out a decent structure for Scientology that avoids a recurrence of DM. His downfall is inevitable muchly due to Marty’s work.
I just opened up the latest issue of International Scientology News, and what do I see? Out of its 112 pages, 71 are devoted exclusively to BUILDINGS.
“When buildings get important to us, for God’s sake, some of you born revolutionists, will you please blow up central headquarters.” (from the lecture “The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology”)
Hm. What to do? What would LRH do? Thinking…
From HCO PL Keeping Scientology Working:
“Trouble spots occur only where there are “no results.” Attacks from governments or monopolies occur only where there are “no results” or “bad results.”
…
“Therefore the road before Scientology is clear and its ultimate success is assured IF the technology is applied.”
This explains the attacks. DM tech is apparently not getting very good results.
GHop:
You make a very valid point. Staff of Scientology organizations and Sea Org Members are NOT doing what they do with the idea they will make the Forbes 500 list of the world’s wealthiest individuals. And I do believe that people should have the right to volunteer their services to assist a true humanitarian effort and that this should not be controled by wage laws.
BUT, and this is a really big BUT: When huge amounts of money are being taken into the organization and rather than paying the staff a decent wage it is spent on buying gaudy, extravagant buildings, sent to the International Association of Scams, used to pay PI’s and Lawyers to wage war against those the organization wants to silence, used to buy massive numbers of useless books and CDs at exorbitant prices, pays for non-existent “management” from a non-existence church hierarchy that has been systematically destroyed by POB, pays for “training” of staff at the FSO who are put to work and generate INCOIME for the FSO (while they ALSO collect money from their org) and is used to buy bespoke suits, shirts and shoes, fleets of vehicles and hot and cold running servants for POB — then something is VERY wrong.
I have commented and posted here a number of times about the tragedy of how staff are treated and how in 1979 LRH said to handle staff pay so staff could earn a decent living. And how POB has screwed around with this for decades, even announcing in 2003 that he, personally, with undying dedication and brilliance had “handled staff pay” (with a system that was implemented and handled NOTHING and was then forgotten). Well, now the environment is putting in ethics. Because what is being done IS criminal.
This is good news. Too bad the statute is only for people who have worked for the C of S or remained in their employ during the last 6 years.
Just think of all the people who have left after 10, 20, 30 years or more without anything other than scars to show for it.
“I was reading a report today about the explosive growth in exports of scotch whiskey, wondering what could possibly be fuelling the demand”
lol:)
Interesting that Cof$ is also advertising about coming to the new org in Melbourne on Mix 101.1 radio station at the same time as this report comes out… Damage control is DM’s specialty
Mrinder, DM’s program to address staff pay is very familiar sounding. Like a politiician that is running for office by promising to reduce everyone’s taxes and then is caught in bed with a moose! It is unheard of! Especially in a church, a religion, to exploit people. I never thought I would ever say this, but David Miscavige is a worthless piece of garbage. And those are his stats.
GT:
And the remaining pages consist of full color retouched, photoshopped shots of POB striking magnificent poses before his adoring crowds, pitches to increase your “status” in the IAS, donate for more “Idle Orgs” and buy your tenth set of the basics? And maybe one shot of LRH thrown in as an afterthought?
Jessica,
Its better than that.
There was a big presentation made to Melbourne Org this past week.
Bridge Publications (not sure where NEP is???) “presented” the Melbourne Org with a “check” for $125,000 for their “Get out of Non Existence Campaign.” (It was one of those monster 6 foot checks like Publishers Clearing House presents to their “winners” that was a photo op that they sent around to all their public). This money supposedly came from sales of “Melbourne Ideal Org special editions of DMSMH.” It is all a PR stunt. Frantically trying to shore up the morale of the people there who invested millions in a building because POB told them it would “clear their city” and now are facing the harsh reality that MEST doesnt do a very good job of clearing anyone.
Melbourne Foundation promoted that they had AN Objectives Completioin at Graduation — a staff member.
When are these people going to wake up and smell the coffee? (Very much including my family who are sheeple cheerleaders of the first order).
While I was not in the S.O., I was close to quite a number of S.O. Flag and AOLA staff. From 1979-2001, I saw first hand how staff were being treated. Low or no pay, crammed into living quarters with 5-8 people in a room designed for 2, very, very little training/processing that you were promised as part of your exchange. SO MANY OUTPOINTS!
I know that so many of the ex-staff here and elsewhere were treated badly or worse for the most part and believe me, I AM AWARE and you have my support and thanks for doing your posts to the best of your abilities even though you definitely deserved far more in compensation.
I truly hope that you all get back-pay and then some!
My Admiration for you work and ARC knows no bounds.
Love,
Gary 🙂
Lawrence: Unfortunately, many “religious leaders” have exploited people. You dont have to look far — Jim Bakker, Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs. Each of them have met their demise as one cannot escape the overt/motivator sequence, even if you think you are God. POB’s time of reckoning approaches. It’s time for the garbage to be taken out…
Mat, I have to agree with you 100%. You probably don’t remember me, but I remember meeting you in NYC, ca. 1993.
But I seem to wear the hat of the ultimate distrusted contrarian in this blog and I have to say that LRH very specifically stated that (paraphrasing here) traditional business methods do not apply to building and operating the organizations of Scientology. I too have lived on lean diets due to monkish earnings, and gladly so. Scientology is not a venue of capitalism nor union demands. I worked, as did thousands of others as it was a spiritual endeavor.
While this pay tactic may help bring down the Miscavige cult empire, it is not a viable president for the long-term (note, that short-term is likely different) advancement of the goals of Scientology.
I’ve not been accepted as a friend on Marty’s blog here. In some cases I may be wrong, tho…, those who have screed me as a troll, are kidding themselves. I say what I have to say, and if commentators feel that they have to resort to low-toned belittlements of me then they are free to do so.
Grasshopper,
Very well written!
It changed with Miscavige.
GMW
“I knew what happened over there wasn’t going to be talked about here at all. Except for the Village Voice,” Rathbun said. “It’s just the way it is here. Believe me, there’s a lot of stuff I told Tom [Tobin] and Joe [Childs at the St. Petersburg Times] that they never printed. Stuff with CNN, too. But the U.S. media has no balls.”
Marty,
What is it that you told the US media and newspapers that they won’t print?
Indeed. DM vs. LRH = 8:1.
Read my book
How many times have I wished I had brought this up during an IAS fundraising event.
Holy Order? No retail interests? Hallucinatory?
Bravo! Michael Rinder!
This is certainly a seminal event in Australia….
No doubt this will have global repercussions.. it will have resonance among many governments.
I bought my popcorn and I am enjoying the view.
Globetrotter, you read my mind. I was thinking of this exact reference as I was watching the above video. Thanks for posting it.
You claim the hat of the ultimate distrusted contrarian? Wow, that’s quite a supposition. I’m sure that with such a preamble, this can’t be your first post here, but somehow I seem to have missed your earlier ultimate distrusted contrarian statements.
I think that to bring out more of that flavor of being ‘ultimate’, you’ll need well chosen specific contrarian quotes rather than paraphrases from memory.
Pazooter,
The Church of Scientology has to get over its “ends justify the means” thinking. Long term, short term, or whenever. The PR and image of Scientology will improve on the day that that truly happens. But it has to happen for real.
Paying staff and SO next-to-nothing, not caring for their medical and retirement needs, and putting the “stat” before the person and their survival — all while demanding 40-100 hour weeks and a financial rape-and-pillage attitude toward the public — is not only unethical, but it is criminal exchange.
Getting these basic fundamentals of life and living honestly confronted, is indeed a “viable precedent for the long-term advancement of the goals of Scientology”.
Wow!!! I hadn’t heard about that. The plot has certainly thickened!
I used to know your family. I hope they get out sooner rather than later.
Hi Marty,
Would love to hear your opinion about a couple of things. Can I have your e-mail address?
Plus 1 Scott.
I can’t believe they are describing themselves as a Holy Order. Where is that telephone transcript of David Miscavige yelling “Go suck cocks on Hollywood Boulevard!”
This is the work of the “HOLY MAN”.
The greatest illusionist amoungst us.
I surrender my applause, well deserved, to the HOLY MAN for his tricks.
But, this enchantment, is done for me.
The spell is broken here.
I concede to the Holy Man for making the greatest magic, and the few extra tricks up his sleeve.
I only deny the Holy Man, is holier than me.
Margaret, I have to mostly agree with your comment. Yes, the abuses exists, especially in light of the DM excesses. This has long been a complaint of my own. I’ve seen the “taxation” of lower orgs by the Finance Office, sending funds upline while lower org staff went hungry, and Int staff ordered $200 silk scarves just to keep up image. I am an ex Pac CMO staff: been there, done that. My comment to Mat says only what it says.
Toby, Very 1.1 Piss off.
There are some brilliant moves going on-Pretty soon we’ll hear the words checkmate.
Release date? I’m ready to buy!
Grasshopper, I really hope we meet one day. Great comment. I agree, that the low pay wasn’t much of an issue when the organization was out to achieve the Aims of Scientology. We were a religious order.
But, now it’s all kind of obscene. The staff still struggle working for little or no pay, but now they are begging for $$ for direct donations to the Church while working in these expensive fancy buildings. Back in the early 80’s we were still free beings. From the bits and pieces of info I get now, the staff seem to be closely watched. And at the higher levels imprisoned.
Scientology practiced in freedom will bring about the promised Renaissance.
Marty,
Are you taking advance orders? I am more than willing to send you energy if it helps you to complete your book…just let me know. ( I have a feeling there are MANY others that will do likewise!)
Mike Rinder
+5
Incredible to read this ~~
The church had argued that some members were not covered by the Fair Work Act because they were in holy orders.
Yes, indeed I am sure it is HOLY to throw execs into FECES lakes.
I am sure it is part of a “holy order” to engage in Slave Labor. Human Trafficking, hardship, crushing poverty and degradation, oppression, screaming from Seniors, enormous self-sacrifice, children forbidden,annual leave forbidden, muster at 8am and work through til midnight, no day off not even Christmas or New Year’s day.
It is SLAVE LABOR on all continents. I have received Emails for Mexico where 3rd world country Guatemalans and Hondurans slave labor in the CLO and fall asleep standing up while receiving a pittance.
It is Slave labor because its fits dictionary and other definitions
“Slavery occurs when one person completely controls another person, using violence or the threat of violence to maintain that control, exploits them economically, pays them nothing and they cannot walk away.”
All passports are confiscated and one cannot walk away. The Sea Org is complete domination and abuse not only from overwhelming hours of labor for a pittance but for what you are permitted to think, who you able to talk to, what you are to say (thought police).
Greta Alexander who posts on this blog posted her whole story on Scientology Cult where she was put in the SADISTIC RPF’s RPF for 180 days for ASKING to leave.
Volunteers indeed !
Holy orders indeed !
Just think of how much better the church of scientology would be if he was gone. It would probably get back on track within 5 – 10 years.
Try to imagine it.
Mike, “…and now are facing the harsh reality that MEST doesnt do a very good job of clearing anyone.”
Perfect!
Hey, Mike – I totally agree, and while I was waxing somewhat nostalgic, I also know that I was a kid and could afford to be poor.
I was 17 then – I am 51 now. It is a wonderful thing that young men and women are willing to work themselves raw for a good cause – to dedicate themselves fully to doing the right thing. I would have done it for free. Most people I worked with on staff were the same way. This is a good thing.
What is NOT a good thing is for organizations to take advantage of them – to exploit them, to not only accept their incredible dedication, but to demand MORE. To not only extract their youth, but to demand a “Freeloader” bill and fuck with their heads by saying they are in TREASON when they leave. THAT is wrong.
Parts of this were wrong in ’77, but LRH was on the working it, as you noted – and also, we were all in the same boat. I didn’t know anyone who was getting rich off of being on staff. No one I knew of was living high on the hog while others were starving. Mark Inger had his gorgeous red Sunbeam Tiger, but he did not get that from staff money as far as I knew. Jon Horwich had his audio fetish and thousand-dollar speakers, but is was his money, not from staff.
The point of all of this is that organizations have the responsibility to ensure their staff are treated right – whether they demand it or not. To do the right thing across the boards. It is the responsibility of leaders to take care of their people – a lesson few seemed to have learned from that PL.
This is the minimum standard, in my book. This is not “worker oriented” as I have been accused of being by a former boss.
And then – add to that the crap the POB is doing now. It is truly a crime, and totally shameful that the State has to step in to force the issue.
We will meet someday, I am sure of it.
Ralph-When I was on staff in the 70s and early 80s,I could also express my opinions-if I thought some big ol’ exec up in top management was a dufus, I could say it without spending intensives in sec checking. On staff, within my first 3 years I was OT lV and a Grad V. I mean I had to have intention to get that, but I wasn’t stopped. Then I had the smarts to become a field auditor when dm arrived on the scene-staff got alot more menacing.
Now I am OUT and the fun has been put back into Scientology!
Totally agree Ingrid, I love that game!
+1
Trouble down under for Miscavige?
What……is his penis proportionate to the rest of him or something?
Thought so.
“it’s time for the garbage to be taken out…”
So simple, so true.
This is great news! I just recently found my w2 for the year of 1986 (I know, ancient history). I made 283$, and some change. What the hell, it was only 60 hours a week. Obviously I was just a lazy Cl IV org staff member. I did leave mid year so it would have been double that I’m sure (I sware I am not a horder! This one odd file somehow survived my umptine million trips to the shredder, hmm?).
Marty or moderater or whomever, there is a quirk with the village voice link. There is a section that is blocked out with a misplaced comment box, at least from here. You should fix that unless it is my computer glitch.
Yeah Mike! Go Indies’ new worldwide waste management group!
“Hi Dave!”
OMG!! Yes! The C of S is sooo out exchange! And it is so obvious where this think gets and keeps them. And I was them at some long ago time and I know what I am talking about. It was a struggle in the 80’s to overcome the obvious, the pricing, the low staff pay. Any other business would have got a clue and changed their non-working ways (oops, sorry, did I say business?) Of course when you’re in and you talk about such things as “hey, let’s make it affordable, not give it away but attainable” you are immediately labeled an SP. Seriously, I remember auditing in the 80’s, at a class IV org being well above $3000 an intensive. What kind of PR can that possibly create, but bad?
The end justifies the means. I think we call that the overt motivator sequence. The C of S is stuck in decades of it’s own overt motivator cyle and out-exchange. And not to trivialize the criminality of DM, this was going on before DM. DM just took the ball and ran with it, and somehow took control of the draconion system of Scn ethics (draconion when misapplied, of course) and is above a good old fashion sec check.
Too much of a rant and way off topic?
Sorry…. this will probably not make me very popular.
Bruce,
I’ve vouched for you once before and I’ll vouch for you again. I know you’re not a troll and it’s OK to state your opinion and if it runs contrary to other opinions that’s fine. In the Independent field that is NOT a crime!
What bugs me personally is that you continually position yourself as an op-term in this group. There’s no need buddy.
It’s hard to reconcile what needs to be done in terms of exposing the abuses of Miscavige in the name of Scientology with the inevitable negative impact it will have on the actual subject but if we want to continue to call ourselves ‘Scientologists’ then it is a necessary evil and we are bound by the Code of a Scientologist to inform the media accurately of the current state of Scientology and let the 4th Dynamic know that the crimes and abuses perpetuated are NOT intact any part of Scientology or LRH policy. Making this distinction clear will be vital if we want to move forward with the expansion of Scientology in the future without being perceived of as an abusive, criminal, greedy cult (tarred with the same brush).
Is the whole process Distasteful? Yes. In the extreme and we are subject to alterations, and added inapplicable sensationalism from the media.
None of this is pleasant. None of this is what we want. But we are also bound by our group code to clean up suppression and protect the tech and right now we need to be in communication with our 4th Dynamic to do this.
It won’t always be like this. When the suppression is off we can all sit down and hash out the details and handle the negative impact on LRH and Scientology.
That’s my ‘contrarian’ position to your ‘contrarian’ position. I believe we can still be in that situation and remain friends.
As you will find it to be so with others here. Give us bit more credit.
As a final note I once again request that you stop throwing peanuts at the players from the cheap seats in the audience. I’m certain you know the reference on spectatorism. Like everyone else here you are invested in continuing to wear your hat as a Scientologist – that is clear to see and should be acknowledged.
However, Instead of finding fault in what is being done on YOUR behalf to salvage YOUR Bridge, please be let us know what are YOU doing about it so the rest of us can sit back, take a break and pass judgement on your activities.
There is one photo of the Tampa Ideal-Book-Study-Group that is not just telling about buildings. In the back there is the golden head of a lion and a label saying “academy” (probably to make it easier for people on their confusion formulas at some point in the future). However, as far as can be seen from the packs, the persons pictured don’t seem to do any academy courses.
Plus 2 Scott
That response was from my 3D hat.
On a personal level I have just wrapped up an interview with ABC news. Most likely my TRs sucked, I had no stage presence, I wasn’t drilled and polished and a couple of times I was caught off not knowing quite what to say and not everything I say will be politically correct and perhaps at times I will fail to protect LRH when I should do or what I say will inadvertently portray Scientology in a negative light.
If you show me the same disrespect when this piece airs that you have shown others here by weakening my position in the group by deliberately pointing out my flaws just to be ‘contrarian’ after what I have had to confront I will hunt you down and I will punch you really f&£%*ing hard.
I prefer to communicate with real trolls than deal with this kind of crap within our own group.
Rant over.
Drop me a line when you got a mo martymart47@gmail.com
And from a Qual hat consider yourself chitted for the various snide remarks in your post and crammed on the Credo of a True Group Member (assuming you do actually want to be a contributing member of this group and not a mere heckler).
Nope…
Rant not quite over.
If you disapprove of the attitude or activities of this group (as you have expressed both publicly and privately) then you can leave or start your own. Unlike Radical Scientology no-one will try to stop you.
It isn’t his first post. He created quite the scene a few months back posting as ‘Bruce’ which is his first name
The scene I referenced is under this posting. ‘Pazooter’ was posting as ‘Bruce Clark’
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/catching-radical-scientology-spies/
When I was on staff years ago, none of us were required to sign a volunter statement. That implementation was the first indicator that the church was worried about the backlash of no/low pay and long hours…always looking to protect itself and not care about the staff.
The people who get royally screwed are the kids who have been placed in the SO without there consent just because their parent’s want to be there.
They get nothing even close to a real education and unless they put into a tech position, they are used as slaves…it is FORCED volunteering.Then if they want to leave, what are they suppose to do for a home, job, etc?
I can’t believe Dan M’s parents stayed in why he left. I really hope that this Ombudsman draft makes some huge rippling effects on a global scale.
I can’t help think of Quintin Hubbard though; he didn’t want to stay in the SO and he wasn’t allowed to leave- so much for Educational Dianetics.
SO kids are NOT RAISED WITH EDUCATIONAL DIANETICS …THEY ARE GIVEN THEIR PURPOSE AND THEIR POST. WHAT HYPOCRACY!
Europe and Australia report but America is one big no report. Wonder who has so much influence…. and why silence regarding Davey is beneficial for such powerful people…..
CST, where did the hundreds of millions parishioners dollars go?
As in “Here’s the check, mate.” 😉
God I love them Aussies….
Let’s not forget that in addition to being underpaid, underfed and sleep deprived while ‘volunteering’ for the church, Sea Org Members have been forced to pay for the privilege of having worked as slaves for years by being classed as a ‘freeloader’ when they leave and cut off from all possible spiritual enhancement until it is paid. The fact that anyone would apply the term ‘freeloader’ to any ex Sea Org member is disgusting to say the least. Most have completed over and above the terms set out in a standard staff contract and were not in the Sea Org to obtain free services.
If anyone tries to justify the abuse of hard-working Sea Org Members by forcing them to live like slaves by falsely attributing this to LRH policy then they have no understanding of who LRH was and what he would have wanted for his group (to flourish and prosper on all dynamics).
All actions taken to Expose Radical Scientology as the off-source squirrels they are are vital and important – even if the only effect is to expose DM’s human rights abuses and get them ended.
Thank you Mike and Marty. For doing whatever you can and whatever it takes.
Jessica, Need to speak to you — could you please write me at lana@hushmail.com? Thanks.
Even if staff do not work “for the money”, they should all have enough to afford a decent living on their own. The independence gained from that, would help to keep those in check, who believe staff are part of the “property”. Is owning a car “luxury”? Is an annual 2 week vacation “luxury”? I think not. Is one day a week off “luxury”? Unless you work in the slums of Nairobi certainly not.
I hope that the current slavery system comes to an end soon. And where the organisation can not end it, the authorities would be the logical enforcer of basic human rights.
Ah, I get it. The Ombudsman is going down the criminal route because it means that they don’t have to rely on consent; one cannot consent to assault/GBH (gross bodily harm) because the act itself is contrary to the mores of society. Anyone want to have a look at R v Brown which sets the precedent. At issue was whether sado masochists could consent to GBH. It was being done in the privacy of their own homes and there wasn’t any duress.
In other words, most Sea Org members will not agree that they are being held in slavery; that this is their choice, but consent is not in issue.
I have mixed feelings about this and am uncomfortable with so much state involvement. Agree there should be a safety net, but not sure where it should be pitched.
FAO Mark Rinder Excellent You couldn’t have put it much more clearer.
I certaintly recall the times LRH was extremly angry when he got to hear staff pay got cut , having witness him stepping in and saw that 8 weeks pay unpaid was paid to staff, Two oaccssions an investigation was ordered and the FBO was fired, because he considred it was more important to by material stuff such like a trapoline than to ensure proper nutrious food was given to staff first. Only when LRH asked for a financial breakdown and who was the FBO . and why were staff reporting in SOI’s that they aren’t getting proper food.
Great post Grasshopper!
Globetrotter,
Thanks, exactly!
Unfortunately, the attacks will be explained away as the big bad SP’s and most church goers will buy it and donate more money to the IAS.
The machine grinds on as long as people are donating and contributing to it. LRH says what he says. He was counting on people to know, duplicate and apply this important concept.
There are no results or bad results, period! And apparently it’s not a few isolated cases, either. This all it boils down to.
Give me a break, any idiot connect the dots. The CO$ suddenly decides to create new business entities in Aussie land …. Its is like the old saying ‘ if it’s not broke, don’t fix it ‘. They are only trying to cover there asses, so they can create more b.s. And the comments by the CO$ are just more smoke and mirror accusatory rhetoric, said in hopes to put attention on everyone else except themselves. I want to puke!
On the staff thing, when I was on staff in Detroit in the 70’s I got $12 – $23 a week, no housing, no meals, no nothing> Had to buy my own uniform, gray skirt, blue blazer and white blouse. I had a young 3 yr old son, which needed caring for. So another staff person took care of him, he was fed cereal and milk for breakfast, diluted Ketchup -to make tomato soup and crackers for lunch, applesauce and FrancoAmerican spagetti for dinner. A treat was crackers with table sugar on it. The kids were allowed to run wild, were dirty and had many minor cuts and bruises due to lack of supervision. I just couldn’t stomach the quality of treatment he was getting, nor the unhealthy diet. And on $12 a week how to you buy gas, and groceries. If you bought good groceries, other hungary staff would take them with no comm. This created overts, you now had the energy of the staff house with tons of MW’s, tons of GPM’s and everyone being PTS. Lack of proper nutrition, sleep etc. body ruds were OTL.
I was one of the few people with a car on staff and was always asked for the use of my car for ‘church’ affairs, but of course I had to pay for the gas, oil and repairs. BTW if you wanted auditing in any kind of timely fashion you had to pay for it.
On a final note, you combine out ruds =’s super stress to the body, physical, spiritual, emotional, mental and this is the reason people get sick. Sick on all levels. For me the sad thing now is there are literally thousands of ex-church CO$’ers who have been used and abused, they BPC on church, groups, the tech, etc. then slap on betrayal after trust and you have one hot mess. Not much happiness going on. These people need handling and I thank all you auditors out there willing to step up. BTW September 11th was Auditors Day, Robin Rhyne – Indie in Tx. reminded us Texans.
Thanks for reading my missive – helps blow some of my own BPC. Hope it helps some of y’all blow some too.
For me it wasn’t about a ‘church’ kind of thing. I sacrificed for only so long and my sense of self preservation kicked in and I left staff. Those were the best of time, those were the worst of time.
pazooter said:
“LRH very specifically stated that (paraphrasing here) traditional business methods do not apply to building and operating the organizations of Scientology.”
I don’t know what you are referring to, but whatever LRH said, he didn’t say that the Church is exempt from the laws of exchange. The IAS is an institutionalized straight rip-off that funds Miscavich’s Ponzi scheme because very few people are stupid enough to pay for squirrel GAT training or to be “overrun” with 3 swing F/N auditing and a bunch of other squirrel tech and admin.
The people that are taking down DM’s organization are volunteers that are working with the same fervor, the same goals and the same pay as Pac CMO staff. The difference between the 2, is that one has access to information and the other is forced to not communicate.
I think the long term goals of Scientology are being achieved here. Radical Scientology has become as solid as a rock. The MEST universe won. The Church is dead. It is now masquerading as Scientology and confusing the whole world about the legacy of LRH’s, which is his technology. But, Marty, Mike and many other volunteers are successfully pointing out the difference between the RS Church and the subject of Scientology.
LRH did not leave us a Church, he left us his technology and it is surviving just fine and growing among well informed Independent Scientologists.
Governments are designed to destroy straight rip-off organizations. From slavery to cults, governments eventually wipe them out because man is basically good and he does not like to see people suffer, like DM does.
Funny, all the connections that come full circle.
Originally colonized by inmates, Australia seems to know all the crimes that can be committed against a person while they are being “held in captivity”.
Oz probably has some sort of tort reform in place such as England does. In America the legal wolves would be circling, eyeing their prey.
BOOK ? what for a book ? is it available also in german ?
Or cellmate, LOL…
+1000
+100 Sam 🙂
Exactly Globetrotter.
Dearest Sam,
Thank you for your heartfelt, well articulated and on target rant!
I’ve just returned from a 5 day intensive leadership conference with the various center directors and leaders of my buddhist community. It was intense to say the least but when it was all over, we did find some time to just sit and chat.
After a particularly light and spontaneous fundraising (took about 30 minutes) following the final banquet and toasts there were a few who were “APPALLED” that any fundraising had occurred on this “festive” evening. My friend, who had honestly spontaneously started the fundraising was crestfallen.
You could have heard a pin drop and several hearts, when I said — hey, that was NOTHING. In my day when IN scientology, the doors were locked until the goal was met. Sometimes 5 hours later.
First, that shocked them but mostly they were SHOCKED (some knew) that I had been a scientologist. A young sweet girl from Boston said — OMG how did you get out?
So the next hour was devoted to me (OH JOY OF JOYS) as I explained the difference between Radical Scientology and the scientology I joined as a young woman in the early ’70s. I explained how much of the work of Mr. Hubbard was gleaned from earlier wisdom traditions, how he put together a completely workable technology etc etc.
I applaud the work of Marty, Mike and so many others who are attempting to bring to light the wisdom of LRH, while separating what has devolved into a mindless yet very harmful cult.
As a Shambhala Buddhist we are being reminded by The Sakyong (the head of the lineage) to bring into the community a culture of kindness and to exude this kindness.
Sam does this skillfully. This does NOT mean “idiot compassion” – where you let someone run rough shod over your group, especially a group dedicated to helping others. Sometimes the compassionate thing is to STOP that person, either with strong %*+# language or a barred door.
Love,
Windhorse
GH — You re right, both Mark and Jon had money outside of the SO. I remember Mark’s Tiger well. And I agree with you fully about the responsibility of leaders.
OTater, that is not exactly correct. Read this post above:
Ralph Hilton | September 14, 2011 at 12:17 am
Quote: “It shows yet again how different the Sea Org has become from when LRH was running the show. We would get $20 a week but it covered expenses beyond accomodation, uniforms, food, medical expenses etc.
During 10 years in the Sea Org from 1972 to 1982 I had around 650 hours of auditing and did around 1000 hours solo as well as completing many many courses. On occasions there were stints of long hours in an emergency but it was perhaps 5% of the time. The rest of the time there was ample sleep time.
In 1975 the GO ordered us to spend an hour a day on the beach relaxing!
I’m not saying the SO was anything like a holiday just that when LRH was around people could expand across the dynamics.
His orders regarding older people was that they should continue to have staff accommodation even when they could not work with an allowance to cover personal expenses. Retirees would remain part of the Sea Org Community. I don’t think I need to guess to figure who rescinded that LRH policy.” End quote.
From 1979 to at least 1988 there were lots of staff moving up the bridge at FSO and AOLA. And there were many who received bonuses for being upstat. Sure, there were weeks when there was no or little pay and beans and rice when the stats were down. But it was not that often. So please don’t make this scene into a huge generality. Yes, things changed after 1988 when POB became more prominent on the lines. Let’s be clear about that.
Worsel — I guess you didnt hear. The Academy Levels are “old school.” Don’t do them any more. This is the new, modern, RCS created under the motto” “We Love COB” (kind of like “We Love Big Brother”)
Sam,
Of all the rants and raves that have come out on this blog, yours above (earlier in this thread) was in my opinion one of the best.
You have cut through ALL of the DM gibberish, the OSA smoke-screens for him and the dumb as snot mails sent to try and position what we are doing here, what those who have openly reported on the off-the-rails, oppressive, assaults on the physical and spiritual well-being of Scientologists that David Miscavige perpetrates daily.
You have pointed out the Code of a SCIENTOLOGIST!
“As a Scientologist I pledge myself to the Code of a Scientologist for the good of all:
1. To keep Scientologists, the Public and the Press accurately informed concerning Scientology, the world of Mental Health and society.”
Missed the rest of that major thought in the first sentence in my enthusiasm.
It should read: You have cut through…(the attempt) to try and position what we are doing here, what those who have reported on…as anything other than the application of Scientology.
done.
Sara — The Ombudsman isnt going down the criminal route. It is something that is noted in the draft report for referral to criminal authorities for investigation. The FWO is focused on compliance with the labor laws and that one cannot avoid compliance by simply claiming that staff are volunteers when all indicia indicate otherwise: they have to show up on time, they have specific hours, assigned duties, assigned seniors and all sorts of other rules they have to follow. Also, their finance records show they pay certain taxes or make set asides that indicate the staff are NOT volunteers but employees.
I agree with you aboiut the level of state intrusion into religious activities (or any activities where adults give consent), but I dont believe this is outside the boundary of where that net should be — because you well know the promises that are made to people to join staff and how if they do their jobs well, they will be paid. But in the set up as it currently exists, it doesnt matter how well the staff perform they will NEVER be paid (the sytem itself doesnt allow it, add to that the out tech that is being delivered, add to that the absolute fixation on getting money for buildings and the IAS which does NOT go to staff pay) and then they are STUCK. And they are “bound by contract” to stay, because if they leave they will be given a freeloader bill and barred from progressing up the Bridge (Laura Dieckman may change this with her case in California where the Calif Appeals Court ruling effectively does away with freeloader bills — the Church is appealing it to the Calif Supreme Court, but I predict will only end up with a ruling that further strengthens the Appeals COurt ruling).
POB knows the explicit orders to handle Staff Pay. He sees the staff in orgs. And while he wallows in luxury, the staff who are truly trying to save the world live in poverty. It’s not much different than these dictators who live in luxurious palaces, have numerous cars, personal jets, fat bank accounts, personal chefs, tailors, hairdressers, masseuses and who knows what else while their people live bleak existences below the poverty level. It’s morally wrong. And its now being recognized as being legally wrong too.
POB refuses to get in his own ethics. He is incapable of doing so as he is incapable of the tiniest shred of self introspection. He knows everything he is doing is absolutely right and if anyone disagrees or expresses a contrary view, they are simply SPs. Well, that is what governments are for. And when the governments dont do their job to restrain abuses and crimes, you end up with the people eventually standing up and saying “Enough, we are not going to take it any more.” Certainly, there is no reform of RCS that is going to occur while POB is the dictator of the RCS.
Samantha inspired me. This thread has pointed up the egregious out-exchange of the group the David Miscavige is the Pope on a Box (an applebox) for.
A TRUE GROUP has a credo and one of its points states:5. The member of a true group must exert and practice his right to contribute
to the group. And he must insist upon the right of the group to
contribute to him. He should recognize that a myriad of group failures
will result when either of these contributions is denied as a right. (A
welfare state being that state in which the member is not permitted to
contribute to the state but must take contribution from the state.)
In the classic style of Reverse Scientology DM has managed to to make HIMSELF a welfare recipient in RTC. In other words, he is NOT contributing to the group, but merely parasitically draining it of free theta, its energy in the form of capable beings and for the past decades, the energy/attention units of the group in terms of its money and ALL completely out-exchange with the individual members of that group, starting at the Int Base and now spread as a cancer to the public merely trying to help the TRUE GROUP and betrayed by this man, David Miscavige and his Suppressive Group.
The Laws of Life are in high gear Dave. Check and mate.
Moneca,
Thank you for sharing your story. I was never on staff but helped a few with a
meal here and there in the 1980’s.
Much loving-kindness,
GMW
PS As described, the way the children had to live is so wrong.
I found a document: “Your Personal Earnings and Benefit Estimate Statement from the SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION.”
I was on staff at LA Day from 1976 to 1982.
Reported earnings for those years:
1976 0 (probably not reported), 1977 0 (probably not reported), 1978 $622, 1979 $985, 1980 $16 (I think I was training at Flag that year), 1981 $1012, 1982 0.
Dr. Denk was training as a doctor at that time and we had a small income from that; we also had housing provided for free through Long Beach Memorial Hospital.
Other staff members moonlighted to make ends meet but for the most part that was a fun and productive time! L, Rachel
Thank you WH
I think as Scientologist and Buddhist we share many core beliefs and philosophies which are similar. Perhaps even the same goal with different paths to get there. I don’t know too much about your religion but it would have been the next stop on my journey to spiritual understanding had it not been for the fact that most all of my demands for truth were met with Scientology.
We are kin and we understand each other perfectly 🙂
Namaste
I was finance inspector in Latam and the sit was similar.
WH and Sam,
I not only agree with what both of you have posted here, I know I agree with your intentions to make this a better place for all concerned. I must admit that, I have found some of the most incredible beings on this blog journey toward enlightenment, and a better life and future for all. Thank you both m’ladies.
GH,
I remember the Tiger and Mark Levinson gear with exotic electrostatic speakers, those things started some kind of games condition too on the part of PoB. He had to get a convertible car of his own (starting his collection) and fancy AV gear in his room too keep up with the “Joneses.” POB has proven to be far superior by putting them in the Hole or driving them out years later. He was jealous of his own brother’s BMW, Guillaume’s Bimmer, Ray’s Porsche, Yager’s mini van for his post, as I remember.
The main factor was the purpose of achieving the aims of Scn was shared by all, especially from the top. That has drastically changed to building glitzy high tech mausoleums and million dollar palaces for the elite.
The other exchange was in terms of spiritual gains – getting grade chart and care that the old man had to get staff and public more easily up the grade chart which is hard to measure in terms of the 9th dynamic. There is tech POB sat on for decades to empower and make clearing an actuality, instead turned into a money grubbing, public destroying machine and biggest mest in town. That “worker-oriented” accusation is familiar despite the many 16 hour and sleepless days.
PoB is the perversion of all perversions – shoving people down the grade chart and destroying the bridge, asserting that every one else around is suppressive, as well as cleaning their bank accounts for no exchange.There is no one in the RCS 3rd Dynamic to bring PoB, the diamond Dave and ex senior PB to account for crimes against LRH, nor humanity. It is currently more 4th dynamic activity to bring ethics and justice needed 3 decades ago, similar to the estimation of effort to bring Hitler down.
Count,
No generalities intended.
As I stated from what I observed at Flag and AOLA the staff were not treated as they should have been. If Ralph got better treatment then good for him. But I saw and heard and talked with enough staff members to see how the S.O. were being treated. What was YOUR living quarters like, Count? I’m not generalizing to make a point here. Can you tell me if all staff got there 2 1/2hrs study time in? What percentage. How about libs? Or getting time off to do laundry? Or getting descent food? (Beans and rice? Would you EVER feed your family that or crap bologna for several meals because their “stats” were down?) Or family time sufficient to have that dynamic? Yes in the 70’s (at least from what I observed at AOLA (79-81), staff appeared to have family time, but still were not treated as they should have been. Look, I get that there are some staff that did get treated fairly well, but day to day, week in week out… not enough. Of course when DM kicked in full force things really went to shit, but we know that now.
Sea Org and Outer Org staff are not 3rd world beings. Nor should they have ever been treated as such. I do respect the sacrifices made by one and all. I just think that all thetans of good heart should be treated fairly and with dignity.
So, that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it! 🙂
Gary
P.S. Don’t take this rant of mine as an attack on you. Just my viewpoint as I physically observed it living and working in Clearwater and while I was onlines there and at AOLA.
I was being disrespectful and flippant. I wasn’t covert about it. The series of well-reasoned replies that Sam wrote to you indicate – to me at least – that I wasn’t crazy in picking up on what I take to be ridiculous hyperbole and a very odd thing to boast.
Your reply to me here merely incorrectly attacks my tone level and adds a gutter insult. It’s a juvenile kind of attempted nullification and doesn’t seem worthy of an “ultimate distrusted contrarian.”
Cult caught by the short and curlies.
Sam, you are right on many levels; it particularly strikes home that at the moment I’m not even in the battle to rescue the Church, so why throw stones at those who are doing something about it. Yes, I’m paraphrasing here, but that’s my take. Maybe I don’t have a right to say anything until I fully take a side, but the comments I made were not to op-term anyone or anything. True, I may not agree with fighting DM and Corporate Scientology through the media and governments. Also true is that I don’t have a better solution. Maybe the government will arrest Miscavige for the criminal that he is and be done with it. Maybe media-generated public opinion will implode all the black propaganda that’s been spread about Scientology, both the subject and the Church as being all the fault of a whacked-out wayward leader leaving nothing but renewed interest in LRH tech. But I’m thinking it won’t all be that easy and there are very real dangers of trying to remove Miscavige by appealing to forces (government & media) who notably have a long history of being antagonistic to LRH and Dianetics & Scientology. It’s good to see independent Scientologists converging on the problem, as well as getting some real tech happening. I recognize the good that Mike and Marty (and many others) are doing and I certainly won’t try to stand in the way of that. I’ve expressed my concerns. Thanks for holding my feet to the fire. Bruce
Bruce.
Keep trucking.
No hard feelings.
♥
Too bad America Is not only not in the lead, but can’t even keep up. Shame on the US.
Sam, you get it girl! Can’t wait to see ya on ABC.
Ef the likes of that Bruce guy!
He has to BE part of the group to be part of the group.
Totally agree!
That is exactly right! The government has to get ethics in on the organization, at least on this point, just like it tries to do with the mob, for example. How long do they sit by and watch people get their legs broken or fingers chopped off before they step in. This would be the perfect blow to the out-ethics.
The report hopefully will show the public there just what abuse and deprivation their staff and Sea Org members endure – all in the name of helping the public.
Like buying products made by children in sweat shops – can you just let it be and keep buying the products even knowing how they’re made?
Wake up Scientologists and look at how YOUR staff are treated and NOT cared for. It’s just mutual out-ruds to allow it to continue.
“Ombudsman” is one of very few Swedish words that has made it into the american language!
Methinks Fair Gameing in Action!
Xenophon disappointed by Scientology report
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3319927.htm