Some witting or unwitting agents of David Miscavige within the Freezone have been running a vicious black PR campaign against me of late. I use the alternative “unwitting” as they could simply be what L Ron Hubbard referred to as “dupes.” In the early eighties Hubbard wrote of unintelligent types who are false data prone. That means people who are so confused in life and about society that they are prone to accept any lie they encounter. The more energetic within the dupe category make a pastime of spreading such accepted lies as far and wide as they can – for a variety of reasons. They can be motivated by jealousy, vengeance, or just plain parasitism, attempting to raise one’s status by attacking someone who they consider more important than themselves.
The particular propaganda line that is getting some traction apparently in particularly out-ethics sectors of the Freezone is that I allegedly censor free speech. The story goes that moderators on this blog are wholesale preventing comments from appearing that might stir dissent.
Let me set the record straight. Here are actual statistics tracked and logged electronically by Word Press, the company that hosts my blog.
Total Comments: 117,808
Approved Comments: 116,166
That means that 98.6% of comments made have been approved and published. That means 1.4% of comments have been trashed.
Considering that L Ron Hubbard estimated in the mid-sixties that 2 1/2% of any given population were anti-social personalities, and modern mental health professionals estimate that percentage is up to about 4% in 2011 (sociopaths), I think one could conclude we’ve shown quite a level of tolerance here.
For those unaware of our moderation policy, please see the following post:
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/blog-moderation-policy/
For those of you have read it and don’t want to read the entire post again, I’ll post here its two concluding paragraphs:
I treat this blog like my home. I entertain a wide variety thoughts and viewpoints. However, when an originator demonstrates it is a one way street and he isn’t really interested in learning something, but only in enturbulating or propagandizing, I show him the door.
Since OSA has had a well-financed, steadily-worked-on campaign going for more than a year to infiltrate my home and this blog with the specific objective of enturbulating me to the point where I start axing people ala Miscavige himself, I think by and large we’ve done pretty well keeping the ship pointed in the direction of moving on up a little higher.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
1.4%. Not an unacceptable percentage at all. It will be interesting to see if any of the 1.4% show up here to troll.
You have allowed too much to go through in my opinion. You were correct to publish the wordpress figures and DA the attack. People follow attack lines. Those unfamiliar with the blog and what you have allowed are vulnerable to this. This all points to how much the attackers fear this BLOG.
Well, I guess some OSA Trolls are just so upset because you won’t publish their entheta, lies and trash.
Wonder what their own moderators rejection percentage is.
Probably about 98%.
Keep up the good work Marty. At the rate you are auditing out the third dynamic engram, most of these guys will as-is quite shortly.
Les
Censoring free speech?
I think someone has you confused with the Radical Cult of Scientology.
And thanks for letting the trolls through occasionally Marty. It’s great target practice (as long as you only let the really good ones through – most are getting so lame they’re not even worth the entertainment value of bull-bait).
+1000. Keep up the fantastic work, Marty. More and more, for two years – this blog is the place to go for the truth. Some few, sadly, ..”can’t handle the truth” – to quote Jack Nicholson.
You blocked pretty much any postings by me, right in the process in which I was trying to explain to you all that I (as non OSA agent) was taken by
surprise finding my name in OSA Christman and Beatty programs that apparently were on Mike Rinder’s computer before he blew.
But you posted Christman’s defamation and hatred against me.
Is that fair and honest? Not in my book
(Christman and Beatty are known because of their hateful postings against Ron, nevertheless, you are supporting them. However, despite of that, I didn’t target them or worked on the OSA intel programs published on your blog)
Update on petitions signed as of Monday, AM October 17th,
as of signature #3,145
The top ten states:
1. 468 California
2. 189 Florida
3. 160 Texas
4. 124 New York
5. 101 Washington
6. 82 Illinois
7. 72 Ohio
8. 69 Oregon
9. 64 Pennsylvania
10. 61 Massachusetts
Next in line:
11. 59 Arizona
12. 52 New Jersey
13. 49 Michigan
14. 47 Georgia, Missouri
15. 45 Virginia
16. 43 Minnesota, North Carolina
17. 42 Tennessee
18. 41 Maryland
19. 38 Colorado
20. 33 Indiana
signing with no location indicated.
746 no location indicated (still takes the overall lead in numbers)
for those not in the U.S.
67 from outside the U.S. or didn’t recognize city, no state indicated
I love it when Trolls and/or Dupes attempt to stir up dissent, hiding behind their computer screens. It always leads to the Truth coming out right afterward, as can be witnessed by the above blog.
Trolls and Dupes unwittingly love foot bullets. They are desperate for somebody to put their ethics in. Hell, they’re desperate for others to put justice in on them as well.
These are the folks who will literally SLITHER AWAY and HIDE when they see you in person at the coffee shop or the grocery store.
I’ve witnessed it personally. More than once.
If anything, you have shown incredible tolerance on what you have allowed
people to post on YOUR blog. In my opinion if someone doesn’t like being censored, they can start their own blog. Oh ya, OSA has tried that and they are frustrated that no one wants to read their crazy bullshit…..
Well, you’ve certainly censored my speech, Marty.
You have little tolerance for direct criticism of LRH, despite what documentation is out there to support it.
This has certainly impacted what I choose to say or not to say on here; no doubt if I, and others, had felt free to express our views here there would be a greater number of posts that you would have censored. As it is, the data reflects the number of posts you actually censored.
It also reflects the fact that a lot of people who would otherwise post more frequently here no longer feel welcome. You have de-selected voices of dissent, instead choosing to surround yourself with people who share your views.
Which you’re welcome to do, of course. It is your blog.
However, the danger in that is that people who otherwise would point out valid out-points are either silenced or encouraged to go elsewhere. This is not dissimilar to what DM has done, BTW.
It also narrows the base of support you might get; both financial and otherwise.
You are a card carrying OSA agent – documented. I am not “supporting” anyone; least of all OSA agents. Adios.
What I’ve done with you Mr. Fancy is refused to post comments that are filled with allegations I know to be false, or clearly non-sequitur swipes that would otherwise derail and interrupt an intelligent discussion. I will continue to do so. People come here for truth and intelligent discussion.
Marty,
OSA surely does attempt to post propaganda here. But, they are entirely identifiable by their cult-think and illogical lunacy–wouldn’t it be better to let their posts through for the whole world to see that and link it with RCS? Think of how OSA’s posting of garbage comments has worked out for them on the many main-stream news sites and other sites–remember ‘Louanne’?
Also, I do have some ‘peer review’-style concerns with the statistical analyses contained in your blog post.
A) How can you be sure that 100% of the posts you are banning are from the sociopaths and none of the good guys’ posts are being banned?
B) Hubbard’s 2.5/97.5 split that you cited refers to the general population. How can you be sure that your blog’s visiting population also perfectly conforms to this distribution?
Wisher
Wow, what a spot-on percentile description of the antisocial!!! It would be very helpful to uncover those who are barking about freedom of speech within your blog – just to know who these trolls are. This blog is one of the more liberal blogs ever…
Huh?
Marty,
You accept all valid viewpoints and you allow open discussions on this blog. How can Mr. Miscavige’s minions say that you filter freedom of thought when they won’t accept any other viewpoint besides their own?
May all beings be well, happy and free to express viewpoints!
GMW
Amen. It’s your blog, it’s your home and you are more than kind, generous and tolerant of other views and people. One of the most tolerant I’ve ever met in my life and it has often given me reason to consider my own attitudes and try to improve on them.
Marty,
I have just posted the following of the Freezone. Org, one poster called you
“corrupt” and in spite of several attempts i could not get specifics about your “corruption” and that of followers. There are people out there who are either drones, LRH quote brainswashed or plain stupid. Nothing to worry about, the truth is the truth and no amount of false reports or whatever can diminish it or obliterate it. This is what I posted today on the Freezone. Org:
“Hello All,
I am currently feeling frustrated and annoyed by the absence of KRC amongst
people who call themselves true Scientologists, they call themselves
Scientologists and some are busy making money applying LRH’s Tech, yet they fail
to see the TRUTH that surrounds them. Scientology CAN HELP THE HUMAN RACE COME
OUT OF THE FOG. It may not be the only solution but it is the fastest and most
accessible solution. But the name of Scientology is being effectively made to
look like it’s a MONEY GRABBING CULT, who’s Leader beats up his own staff and
he’s only there to destroy Scientology’s credibility and to rob unsuspecting
victims who think he is the honest to God inheritor of LRH’s Scientology. New
people seeking Scientology as a method to help them solve personal problems, are
normally not aware of what David Miscavige’s Cult is all about. Many lives have
been destroyed by David Miscavige (Leader of the Cult)after he tok over control
of the Church of Scientolog after it’s Founder L Ron Hubbard died. Hundreds and
hundreds of individuals who trusted Miscavige have been attacked by him and his
Corporate Machine because they realized there was something wrong and left his
“Church” or had the courage to voice their concerns. Many have gone bankrupt
after spending their life savings paying for “help” or handing out control of
their businesses to the ever money grabbing Miscavige Church of Scientology. A
few people, who spent thousands and some millions buying Miscavige’s “spiritual
counselling” have committed suicide at the stage of OT VIII, considered the
highest level of “spiritual enlightement” by Miscavige’s Church.
Now I ask you, even if you were not a Scientologist, how can you sit there and
think it has “nothing to do with you”? How can you sit there and say “REASONS
NOT TO SIGN THE PETITION” TO THE WHITE HOUSE ASKING TO LOOK INTO WHY THE FBI IS
REFUSING TO INVESTIGATE A CULT WHICH IS VIOLATING HUMAN RIGHTS?
DAVID MISCAVIGE HAS BEEN ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFIC FOR YEARS AND HE HAS GOTTEN
AWAY WITH IT SO FAR BECAUSE THE FBI HAS REFUSED TO SERIOUSLY INVESTIGATE THE
ALLEGATIONS (WHICH ARE TRUE AND CAN BE BACKED UP BY PLENTY OF EVIDENCE. WHY??
How many of you love Humanity? How many of you will allow Humanity to be
slaughtered, physically or spiritually be it Hitler,Sadam, Gadaffi
or David Miscavige?
For those of you who are unaware, there is currently a large number of people
who have submitted a petion to the White House asking to look into WHY the
Concerned Authorities (FBI) are refusing to help the USA Tax Payers and many
other people around the world by investigating the obvious RICO and otherwise
crimes being committed by the Church of Scientology against the people of this
world.
This is not just to do with a “religious situation”. This is to do with
outright, by the law, criminality, where an individual or corporation is clearly
committing crimes against other human beings and they are getting away with it.
Think about that, folks.
Alex
PS Excuse typos, I am on f..cking fire!!
Hey Marty, I respect the hell out of what you are doing, and from my point of view, you have been incredibly tolerant of your commenters.
I would invite anyone to compare the tolerance of this blog to:
The church of Scientology
Members of the church
ESMB
Minerva
And then shut the cuss up about “censorship”.
Why does it matter? All he did was give the percentages. Whether all of those 1.4% are sociopaths or not is irrelevant. Their comments are worthy of deletion, and he has laid out the moderation policy pretty clearly and fairly.
I’m happy to see that all of my posts have been allowed to remain.
I was a moderator on a blog once. I removed what I considered to be personal attacks (not allowed per that particular blog) and took some heat in the community. I mean that literally – people stopped me on the street to ask why I removed their post and accused me of violating their free speech rights! The blog survived after a lively and heated discussion. It was finally agreed that either the blog had to require people to register and post using their real names and ban anonymous postings, OR establish parameters that would allow anonymous posts, but keep the discussions on track and protect people from trolls who just love creating havoc. People can’t have both anonymity and free reign to say what ever they want without some kind of restriction (manners).
I think that diverse opinion is healthy and interesting.
In addition to wanton trolls Marty has to provide a secure site that will not offend the sensitivities or ‘development’ of those Scientologists who do not want to see advanced Tech quoted or more importantly misquoted, that is a bit like telling the audience to turn away before revealing the result of a major Ball game that has not yet been televised, I feel 1.4% is a very low ‘rejection’ rate given all the criteria!
So, what is your point, Wisher?? You are not making sense at all. I recommend reading the above post again…
1+++
Please allow me to clarify my post. Which part are you referring to?
You do sensor Marty, and your numbers are skewed.
All you had to do when I posted is be a human instead of saying “more rope for you and your master”. And when the reply comes you sensor and control, because you are a wuss.
By the way I have a better stat than what you posted, you have.had so many repeat posters and those numbers are not unique.
Marty,
Barbara Schwarz is actually a well documented Internet crazy person (aka Net.Kook – http://www.ahbl.org/documents/kooks/barbara-schwarz ).
She has the distinction of having filed more FOIA requests of U.S. government agencies than any other group or entity in the entire country – all in pursuit of proof of an alleged conspiracy involving herself, her parentage, Ron Hubbard and even yourself personally.
There are numerous folks amongst the critic community who reckon OSA was and is using her madness to sew confusion in the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup – even going to far as supplying her with a computer and Internet access after she was banned from using public computers by the Salt Lake library system.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Alex, great write-up! You Rock, man!
“Hear hear” Marty!
Any criticism of the way in which this blog is run is an outright admission that this blog has POWER!
Too much power for some, apparently.
Oh…..and did I forget to mention that this blog is the exclusive property of an individual? And that this individual doesn’t owe any of us one damn thing?
The stats say it all. 1.4% Hmmmmm…..
With my comments having been allowed, common sense tells you this should have never come up as a question or a rumor. 🙂
They’re just groping/grasping or whatever it is people like that do to amuse themselves. Pay no heed.
Marty an the Bunch.
No amount of false reports by Miscavige’s drones can possible affect the momentum at this time. It’s like thinking a shot fired from the bottom of the mountain can stop an avalanche that it’s well in it’s way down!! Just sit in porch with Mrs Rathbun, watch the sunset and have a drink of apple juice
( that is if you don’t fancy a Gin and Tonic).
No worries mate.
Alex
Well, what you are calling irrelevant is what Marty used to prove his point in the original blog post.
Barbara Scwarz is the perfect “dupe.” You can get her riled up about anything and send her off to “attack.” This method of creating “agents” is cover in the LRH advices on “Rollback.” That is what Barbara Schwarz is. She probably doesnt realize it, but it doesnt change what she is.
Ohh plueeese, you are sooo boring and ineffective. Get yoursel a Life Repair, or maybe 15000 hours of Objectives, or perhaps the New Super Power where you will sit for who knows how many hours spinning on your chair while pictures are being flashed at you? Ahh, sorry, I guess you are one of the newly released Super Power people. That would make a lot of sense, considering your present insanity. No, seriously, we are here to help you when you decide you have had enough of the FALSE PERSONALITY you are dramatizing.
Get some kind of help fer goodness sake. How can you be such a ROBOT when the real TRUTH is all around you?
Wake up, unless you are Miscavige, who is dead as a doornail.
“THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY
“THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST
…
“As they only comprise 20% of the population and as only 2 1/2% of this 20% are truly dangerous ….” (“Introduction to Scientology Ethics” by L. Ron Hubbard.)
TO STATE THAT 2 1/2% OF THE POPULATION IS SUPPRESSIVE OR ANTI-SOCIAL IS FALSE DATA.
“Considering that L Ron Hubbard estimated in the mid-sixties that 2 1/2% of any given population were anti-social personalities ….”
Sorry Marty, but do the math, OK? This is not an insignificant piece of data LRH gave us to mind.
(There went my lunch time.)
What I am calling irrelevant is the fact that you assume he said the 1.4% are sociopaths. He didn’t say that. He used the information as a comparison of interest. His point doesn’t need to be proved….. it is what it is. Those are the percentages, and he has been very tolerant. You are trying to mince words. Ridiculous argument.
And you are “concerned” that not all the 1.4% are really anti-social personalities, and that in fact it’s a smaller percentage of them who are being sent ot the trash bin (ergo even more of the 2 1/2% are being allowed to post?). Whatever point you are trying to make seems to be clear to you and obscure to the rest of the world.
Or did you simply want to find *something* to carp about and that was the best you could come up with?
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/Barbara_Schwarz_17.12.2007.html
That is the problem with being literal. You can’t begin to understand Scientology (nor any subject for that matter) in that wise. It is how the 1.1 managers of Radical Corporate Scientology approach the subject; and that is primarily why the organization is dead.
Ferry — the number of repeat posters is matched by the number of repeat posters who go to the trash bin. Doesnt skew the numbers at all.
OSA is still paying you even for this level of clownery? Man, its worth letting one of your inanities through every now and then just so everyone can see where things have descended to in “handling attackers.” Aren’t you embarrassed? You used to be a “big-shot” plant and now you’re desperately trying to get a posting onto Marty’s blog to earn your keep?
The day I reject a CP comment is the day you all can hand me my walking papers.
+1
Totally agreed – incredible tolerance and willingness to allow many and varied, often opposing, viewpoints and communications.
I kind of take exception to the idea that Marty doesn’t owe us a damn thing. By agreement we are helping create his blog.
Marty invited us to this party. When we show up, we don’t expect to be tossed out the door. But likewise he doesn’t expect us to be trashing the party decorations.
I managed one of the world’s largest Forums with over 25 Moderators under me. As the result of endless complaints of Moderator abuse, we carefully drew up reams of rules that would safeguard the Fora in terms of retaining the valuable information archive, protect Posters from Trolls hijacking topics, and set up fair guidelines for Moderator Conduct. We had this down to a Science drawing on historical experiences from the earlier Usenet & BBS inceptors.
Drawing up Forum Rules and posting them widely will keep some of the Trouble at Bay.
However it’s been my experience that approx. 5-10% only came to disrupt the Forums and attack other Posters. And when we booted them off, they violently complained and Black PR’d every Mod on the Board.
So it goes … comes with the Territory. Add to that every resident ESMB Troll considers it his god-given right to bash anyone not towing their hidden anti-Scientology Line, they’ll try to get you in other ways.
I have had 1 single Post rejected in the last 18 months, and was likely a mistake, which can happen now and then. Sometimes it’s a technical Issue in that a Post simply didn’t take because of WordPress or Webbrowser anomalies.
Marty,
I agree with your comment. There are people out there who can only quote LRH (valid or not) but cannot see beyong that. That to me is tantamount to being an L Ron Hubbard Robot, which is never what he intended people to be. As far as I know, LRH gave us data that would help us think, he never meant to make us THINK HIS WORDS literally regardless of the circumstances. Sheesh!!
Alex
Marty doesn’t owe anyone a darn thing. He left hell and came out to tell the truth about it. Does of us who SUPPORT this blog have been made aware of stuff we didn’t have a clue about. How about we owe him uh??
Well, your version of truth of LRH is subject to independent verification, Marty. I have offered several links to that verification which you have prevented the people here from seeing.
But, the information is out there for those who can look.
As for non-sequitur swipes, that is in the eye of the beholder. When you allow fawning over LRH’s family life to go unchallenged, for one example, you are not promoting intelligent discussion. You are promoting propaganda that does not bear up to scrutiny because you are going to be hard-pressed to find many members of Hubbard’s family who remember him fondly.
That is but one example.
Wisher, with all due respect, what part of the following comment did you not understand?
“I treat this blog like my home. I entertain a wide variety thoughts and viewpoints. However, when an originator demonstrates it is a one way street and he isn’t really interested in learning something, but only in enturbulating or propagandizing, I show him the door.”
If Marty thinks something is garbage, so be it.
Marty,
Probably a measurable portion of that 1.4% were my responses that you sent back, lol, and we are friends. Most of mine were derail rants, or I got pissed at someone I thought was stupid and went after them in a little tantrum. I understand this is your blog, and you have a right to control both manners and etiquette and content in your “home”. Though I might have gotten irritated once or twice, I got over myself. You do so much more than me on a daily basis towards ending the abuse, I simply don’t have the right to hijack your forum.
On the Freezone and rumors/black PR, I have a little story to share. About a year and a half ago I was on a crusade to bring understanding and cooperation between different factions of the ex COS community, not to create a shared reality on the tech, or LRH, but rather to help facilitate the sharing of information between “groups” with the common goal of ending abuse. In response, I got some amazingly creative and very personal attacks. Many of these were forwarded by Dexter Gelfand, who I have been told by several respected people is a good guy. Another mouth was Frank Pate, a Dallas Freezoner. Some of the rumors on me were directly (within one person) traced back to Bob Adams, a current OSA Int staff member.
As I have never gone to the media or entered into any litigation with the COS, my major crimes were confined to taking in some three dozen plus ex SO members into my home for weeks or months at a time helping them decompress, giving them guidance and advice on re-building or building a new life.
The rumors were fascinating in part by their wild creativity, and their stupidity (gluts PR) in ways to discredit me:
I have a hundred million dollar business and Jeff Hawkins created a web site for me that is a joke for a business of my power/wealth. (Please God, make the 100 mil business true!).
I am Scientology Illuminati, skimming millions off the top of the church and financing all sorts of things including M&M in consolidating all the Scientologists under them so that when DM moves, they can just be moved back in the COS. That I am controlling in part, as Illuminati, the COS bigger picture.
That I was running a COS funded half way house.
That I was always wealthy, left the SO wealthy, have hundreds of millions of dollars and a hundred million dollar a year business.
That I was lying about having been homeless several times in the first 10 years I left the SO, see above, I came out with millions.
That I was pure evil, global scale pure evil, etc. etc.
That I was running and financing Mike and Marty.
That Marty was running me.
That all of us were really a recruitment pool for the COS.
There are several threads that were created on ESMB to discredit me following this, including one “condensed” 19 page thread “Lets DA Mike Laws”:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?22659-Snipped-noise-from-cult-recovery-thread-AKA-quot-let-s-DA-Mike-Laws-quot
Karen Delac was also getting a lot of it. January 2011 I wrote the following secret letter to OSA. Forgive the typos and grammer, I had a couple bottles of Gluhwein left over from a trip to Germany, drank them while writing this letter getting increasingly excited as I went:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21571-SECRET-letter-to-OSA&highlight=Mike+Laws
Sometimes I think people take themselves and their certainty of the tech and their certainty of their superiority over all knowledge and things a little too seriously. God Bless humility.
How about compared to WhyWeProtest? The Village Voice? Operation Clam Bake?
Basically, you’re comparing Marty’s pro-Scientology blog to other pro-Scientology websites.
When compared to most other websites, the pro-Scientology websites are decidedly against free-speech. Free speech allows all viewpoints to be heard and judged on their own merit.
It is a strength of Western democracies that eventually truth will stand on its own. Only falsehoods need to be protected by censorship.
Marty,
This………
“In the early eighties Hubbard wrote of unintelligent types who are false data prone. That means people who are so confused in life and about society that they are prone to accept any lie they encounter. The more energetic within the dupe category make a pastime of spreading such accepted lies as far and wide as they can – for a variety of reasons. They can be motivated by jealousy, vengeance, or just plain parasitism, attempting to raise one’s status by attacking someone who they consider more important than themselves.”
……is the best explanation of the phenomena I have seen. I have described it as a person who is a “3P magnet”. LRH explained what it is about.
You’ve censored a few of my posts, ones where I thought I was actually making a good point. But hey, it’s your blog; I don’t have a “right” to have my comments posted here so it’s never bothered me (except for some sadness others won’t have the opportunity to ponder my thoughts).
Oh, I forgot one of the better ones: that the Scientology Illuminati, of which I was a member, was intentionally letting DM destroy the COS, driving all the members into the independents, so that when no public were left, and when DM was removed, quietly, Amnesty would be issued, and the independents would assume the assets and infrastructure of the COS and everything would go back as it should be.
Mike, most of my posts are very supportive of the work you and Marty do. But, I’m also not afraid to call things the way I see them.
Let qualify this “free to express” nonsense a little bit. It’s the battlecry of every die-hard Troll.
Forums, and their hierarchical Categories are based on “topical Discussions”.
This is a Pro-Scientology Forum/Blog. Here Users discuss the LRH Technologies and the factors which alter and pervert it, and considerations of remedial Actions.
ESMB is an ex, or anti-Scientology Forum. Here Users criticize, invalidate, and denigrate Scientology.
Criticising LRH/Scientology would only result in more fighting, and end up on the same agenda-based doorstep as ESMB. Behind all these supposedly “reasonable” criticisms of LRH and Scientology are merely concealed intentions to destroy.
If you are generally preoccupied with anti LRH/Scientology Sentiments, you are in the wrong place.
Support from Trolls is no Support at all. One just steps on them.
On the WWP/ex-Scn message boards I’ve noticed that another enemy line floating around is that “Mike and Marty haven’t made real ethics change since the days of working for Miscavige”, and that their “real purpose” is to take over COS once they get Miscavige removed from post. Pretty ridiculous, but people tend to believe what they want to believe.
On a parallel to this subject of censorship, false data, etc, if you have not seen the movie, “Burzynski”, I would highly recommend it. It is about the supression of a doctor who has made spectacular inroads in the treatment of cancer, and the depths to which the FDA, etc, went to supress the truth, only to fail in the end. However, the efforts to try to stop this doctor has depleated his finances and delayed his efforts to save lives. When you see this movie, you will see data of comparable magnitude on how OSA works to spew false data and use censorship to delay or subvert the spreading of truth about abuse, fraud and such within its ranks, and crimes committed against others.
In my opinion, the FDA is protecting the billion $ “cancer treatment” industry much the way OSA is protecting DM and his multi-million $ corporate cult franchise.
For more information, look here: http://www.burzynskimovie.com
Barbara,
Don’t waste your breath bashing ‘Christman’ – it won’t hold water with anyone (her name is Tory by the way – nice attempt to depersonalize her). We know exactly who she is and we’re not about to buy into your generalities about her. We don’t operate on lies, rumors, exaggerations and generalities about how ‘bad’ other people are – that’s why any attempted 3P on any other friend of ours will be completely ineffective.
As for ‘supporting’ her – that sounds like OSA speak for making friends. Sorry if you don’t like it but no-doubt there are plenty of natter boards where your vile and poison will be welcome.
I love, admire and respect Tory – she has qualities you seem to be severely lacking in – judgement, kindness compassion and understanding… oh yeah, and honesty.
If you have a personal problem with Tory I suggest you take it up with her (good luck with that)!
LOL so you are Alex!
Who pulled your chain?
– I treat this blog like my home. I entertain a wide variety thoughts and viewpoints. …” –
———————————————————-
Yes, certainly! And it is Y O U R blog! Nobody is getting forced to read your blog or is getting forced to share your viewpoints.
I don´t understand how anybody could assume (or be that arrogant) that you HAVE TO put their comments on YOUR blog.
And after all- everybody is free to start his own blog!! – And free to communicate there whatever he wants.
And I think, your blog is just fine as it is! I learned a lot.
Just yesterday I could handle a sit which was bothering me for years, due to the data (PTS/SP) you were communicating few days ago. I knew the data but looked at it again and from a different perspective. That handled the sit.
THANKS!
Karola
Fight or Flight
Or
Golden Age Tech Zombification
I have noticed similar physiological changes in CoM ‘Zombies’ performing their self destructive functions.
By using a combination of stress and other mind control methods it is possible to elevate someone into the ‘red mist’ situation of ‘fight or flight’, at that mindset normal rational thinking including cause and effect disappears. You are 100% in the Reactive Mind!
This has been evident in all my close skirmishes and clear in such activities of the Squirrel Busters and the recent axiom142 video outside St Hill 14 Oct 2011.
Basically the body is in battle trauma state running on adrenalin with all the ‘safeties’ turned off. This puts great strain on the body!
Side Effects
Short term side effects are crazed or bulging eyes (often whites of eyes seen around perimeter) and a thinly veneered state of panic.
Long term side effects include rapid ageing and loss of short term memory and onset of terminal illnesses such as cancer.
Marty sure as hell owes me!
I’ve still got 2 ruined computers – one from having thrown up all over the keyboard and one from spit up coffee caused by uncontrollable laughter.
Note to self – must get computers insured.
I appreciate the weeding out of entheta. There is very little if any infighting and inner conflict on this blog. Remaining focused on the right target with the purpose to disseminate facts has made the blog a very big stable datum for me.
+1
I’m sorry, but simply calling my post unintelligible–as all who have responded so far have done–fails to make a persuasive argument against any of the points I’ve raised.
If so, then it’s a comparison of apples to oranges–so what’s its point?
Look, I support Marty. But, sometimes a friend tells another friend the truth as they see it; even if the truth hurts a little.
Marty, all else aside, for someone to accuse you of censorship on your own blog shows an ignorance of the difference between a blog and a forum. While a forum is a public discussion platform, the content of a blog is up to the blog owner – he or she can allow comments or not and set the rules. I ran a blog for a couple of years as you know (Leaving Scientology) and it would astonish me that some people felt I somehow owed them a speaking platform to insult me. Really? Let them get their own blog. While you and I don’t agree on everything, I respect your right to run your own blog as you see fit.
Irrelevant. Troll Post Content is the Issue, meaning the intent to provoke a response to hijack the Intent or Purpose of the topical Discussion.
If the same Poster has a consistent record of Troll Posts, not only are his Posts removed, but the Poster himself banned from the Discussion Board.
Search Google and learn how Forums/Blogs are managed.
You accuse Marty of sensoring, something he admits to. Then you tell him the numbers are wrong whereas they’re computer stats count all posters and all rejects. Then you accuse him of being a wuss for doing what all other blogs are doing. And now you have better stat…. better than all of RCS with all their subsites and millions in advertising….let me see…..
Marty, it is pretty clear that you often refuse free expression that is counter to your own flavor of propaganda, polarization, and desire to sway emotions. What is happening to you, at the hands of DM and company, is reprehensible but no excuse to filter even those deemed as OSA Goon Squad Types. True if they were conducting a Denial-o-Service Flood you would be justified – but your ‘my living room’ analogy doesn’t stand to your virtue to allow free expression – unless you’d ‘Disconnect from a Child for sassing back’ or take them to the village elders and have them stoned for stepping out of line Christian Style. I am happy you have survived and escaped $cientology. I am saddened that you still believe in all of that Pseudo-Scientific Supernatural Mumbo-Jumbo about Spiritual Thetans, Space Alien Cultures especially when never in the history of mankind has any evidence been offered for any of it as found in Hubbard’s Public Lectures, materials, courses. No validation of any of these extraordinary things through open examination, duplication of experiment, or detailed public peer-review of any of Hubbard’s ‘Research’ by the Medical, Psychological, or Scientific Community.
When you continue to offer hope to folks of any ‘After Life’ pander to thoughts of ‘Previous Lives’ and seek to offer the $cientology Spiritual Services to ensure a person a safe ‘Eternal Future’ you, by your actions, demonstrate that you are not free of the dangerous, deadly, and enslaving aspects of $cientology. When you offer $cientology-Like Services to good, honest, and hard working folks that haven’t learned to Think Critically and seek evidence of claims of the Supernatural, Extraterrestrial Civilizations, Invisible Entities, Telepathy, etc you demonstrate that you are still entrapped. When a person is drilled heavily into accepting without question that $cientology Works and is perfect and unchanging via the KSW PL as is found in Every Course Pack they loose their Native Sense of Disbelief and accept things like Belief in Santa, the Easter Bunny, The Tooth Farie, Telepathy with Invisible Living Non-Corporal Entities, etc. that are found in-part in $cientolgy. Telepathy in no form has ever been demonstrated to be anything beyond a cheap Parlor Trick. Nobody has ever measured, tested, demonstrated the existence of a human soul, thetan, cluster of thetans, clusters of sleeping thetans, etc. Even Hubbard admitted defeat in the Elaborate Seaman’s Yarn turned into Book – A Mission Into Time; no buried treasure, no secret chamber, no dead-man’s-chest, etc. Its time to make the final step and drag the curtain aside and see the greed for money, power, or fame that is hidden behind the shroud.
Alot of the art world has let alot of junk in-like a toilet on the wall or just some loose tile on the floor-these are considered by some as real works of art.-yes,there are those who want to communicate THAT, but why? And who wants it?
I like comm from a thetan , not a case.
You should call yourself “Ferris Wheel”. It would be far more accurate as you just go around and around and get nowhere.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientoloigst
Marty-I’ve gotta commend you. I’m no longer a believer in LRH tech and I’ve also disagreed with some things on this blog. You’ve always posted my comments and others as well. There’s not many people who run as open a blog as yours. Keep on moving up a little higher! Differing believes but definitely a fan and I admire your work.
According to the standards of no less an authority than Howard Stern you Sir are a bigot. Not to mention a propagandist.
Howard Strern, on Rick Perry calling Mormanism a cult:
“All religions are a cult,” fumed Stern. “You want to believe in religion? Good for you. No problem—but don’t sit and criticize a guy because he wants to be a Mormon…I hear people, they go: ‘Oh, Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. What an asshole.’ I say: ‘Well, you’re the same asshole.’ So, okay, Scientologists believe, from what I understand, that space aliens came from another planet and came down here and I guess created man or—I don’t even know what the religion is. And you sit there and you go: ‘Ah ha ha ha ha!’ Well go read the Bible, what they believe. It’s as goofy as that. In fact, it’s probably more realistic to believe that space aliens came down and actually populated the planet. That seems—logical—somewhere in the universe there were other life forms that were advanced and came down here. I mean, if you’re going to believe in something—what’s the difference?”
Thanks Jeff.
MF, read the blog post that I linked to in the post you are commenting on. I demonstrated that one poster lasted less than a week on WWP whereas I had given the guy months. You are demonstrating just the type of behavior I noted in the last two paragraphs (taken from the linked post) of the current post. Brilliant.
I haven’t been posting much because I feel that everyone else pretty much covers the territory. But I follow your blog closely. I think you do a terrific job of keeping the communication lines open and flowing, and providing a forum for a constructive exchange of thoughts. There is a responsibility to freedom of speech- it does not include freedom to slander and lie and incite hate. There is a skill to the art of debate and i do feel that if one seeks to enjoy to exercise his right to freedom of speech that he should also seek to exercise it responsibly and learn to develop the skill of expression without base, degrading and false comments and accusations as did our forefathers. Something the cowards at RCS have obvious contempt for – having opted to denigrate and slander others under their “rights” in the 1st amendment while hiding under its skirt.
Thanks for sharing this Michael.
See my other reply to you – you’ve flunked the troll test.
There is no trouble to keep at bay. I am merely exposing a black propaganda campaign.
Xemu X
I was about to post that the problem with some of the other blogs or forums is the fact that many contributors start from the premise that LRH is bad, Scientology is bad, it’s all bad, and the discussion begins from that point. And it is really about hatred, a game of “who hates Scientology the most” and whose stories are the most outrageous regardless of truth or falsity.
I was going to go onto to say that if Marty allowed all of that type of stuff onto his blog it would soon degenerate into one of the hate sites.
Anyway, I don’t need to say all that because your post just proved my point.
Again, the Negators pressing for, and looking for a Hole to open the Doors to Trolling.
… ESMB thataway ——>
I am Katageek and Bunkai
My real name is Will Harper. You have banned me twice. One question:
Does WP include the posts of banned posters from the stats listed above?
And since I will surely be banned again, let me take this parting comment to say “Thank you” to the Scientologists I have met. As I stated on Geir’s Blog, I never would have known “my truth” of the “spiritual being” question without you all.
ENJOY YOUR PATH AND DREAM WELL!
Because Will Harper, I have confirmation that you are an OSA agent. And a terrible one at that. Reason I’ve waited so long to announce this is because we used you to great effect feeding Miscavige bullshit. Thanks for the assist.
“I like comm from a thetan , not a case.”
Exactly!
🙂
Marty,
Thanks for providing a safe place and a vehicle with which I’ve been able to ‘move up a little higher’. I am truly grateful to you and the many others here who’ve made this possible.
You’re a good man. Keep on keeping on.
Thanks for the info, Formost.
“Measure a technique by how much sanity it returns to your preclear. That is all that is important.”
In the Theta/MEST theory, a person with a high endowment of theta can operate quite sanely while walling off huge amounts of entheta. The thrust is to continue to add to the theta, to validate the theta, to increase the available theta. This individual might only have a small percentage of his theta endowment which is unenturbulated, but still manages to operate at a higher tone.
What applies to an individual can apply to a group. So lets consider this Scientology web community as a group operating with its own computations, counter-computations, goals, counter-goals, information, disinformation–well, its own mind/reactive mind.
Affinity, reality and communication (understanding) comprise theta. Miscommunication, unreality, low emotions, and the like comprise entheta.
Theta tends to reject entheta. Entheta tends to reject theta.
That the majority of a third dynamic “operates” (dramatizes) according to reactive dictates, does not gainsay the capacity of available theta to operate with affinity, reality and communication (understanding).
I realize that Marty has emotions. Oh, how horrible! To actually be aware and feel! To respond! Heaven forbid!
But, for the half-wits who don’t get it, you can’t really be analytical without emotions. You can’t live life without emotions and feelings. And to pretend that you can analyze life by excluding that one capacity (emotion/feeling) is pure nonsense.
So, my point?
Sigh.
Why would any sane individual spend inordinate amounts of his life validating and responding to entheta when there are so many opportunities to have a full rich life?
No one one is obligated to entertain or validate or nurture another’s entheta. Only fools believe their foolishness to be important.
Michael
Problem is Wisher, its really hard to make a “persuasive argument” about nonsense. Funny how you seem to be the only one that understand the point you are trying to make? I would put that in the category of “unintelligible” (perhaps for everyone except you – sorta like the marching soldier who comments “How come everyone else is out of step”?)
That is true, Marty. You and other moderators helping you have done a fantastic, evenhanded job of letting people state their viewpoints even when they do not agree with you or with the general tone of the contributors here. I am sure most of us are very impressed and grateful for the outstanding job you have been doing.
Thanks Sandy for keeping this head count. It is very interesting.
+1
Sam, save a hug for me for when we meet:))
I don’t rock, I dance to Cuban music ha! :))
XXX says “When you offer $cientology-Like Services to good, honest, and hard working folks that haven’t learned to Think Critically…”
Honestly, I am tired of being told how stupid I am by people who don’t see what I see. I still make mistakes and learn from them, yes, but I’m not stupid, and I am willing to look instead of closing the door first and then saying there’s nothing beyond it.
Almost forgot……………
Well, my support has ranged from on-line support of Independent Scientology to sending hundreds of messages to my friends to sign the WH online petition to monetary donations to Marty.
I also support Anons in other ways, but they actually, you know, *appreciate* it.
I had considered your cause worthy of support because I feel Scientologists need a place to practice their religion without being preyed upon by their Church; regardless of my feelings of the value of the “tech” or the questionable history of LRH.
A “troll” is someone who “…posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.”
That’s not my intent, at all. I’m not trying to disrupt or cause arguments, but I am pointing out instances where the facts do not support some of the more far-fetched assertions made here.
But, seeing that you, Foremost, and Marty cannot tolerate alternate viewpoints, you both meet this definition: “One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.” I. E.: A Bigot.
And this “troll” is finally done supporting bigots. I will gladly direct my resources back to those who deserve them.
As others have already, mind you. Good job on isolating your selves from the Wog world! DM is not the only one capable of foot-bullets, it seems.
Don’t you just love how zealously the so-called “scientist” radically attacks anyone who has the temerity to put his or her belief in anything that can’t be supported by “scientific proof”? What seems to escape them is that because something cannot be proven does not prove that it does not exist.
Science is a very useful tool in that it does document and codify physical universe truths and in my opinion does this very well most of the time. However, to limit ones universe to be defined only by those scientific truths is not only dehumanizing but also closes ones eyes to the real mysteries and beauty of life. Really it is rather sad to see someone so hung up on their own “beliefs” that they can no longer truly observe. If it does not fit into their worldview then of course any data is rejected. None of us like to be invalidated, and for the “scientist” to accept that there are possible truths, such as gods, thetans etc. that they cannot understand, would of course shake their stable datum and invalidate their own considerations.
So to the extent that a “scientist” can only accept data that can be “proven” by their methods and agreed upon by peer review, they are in my opinion shackled by their own religious extremism.
Mr. F,
What amazes me is that in an intelligent discussion of what you describe as LRH’s ‘family life’, you seem to consider that since you read something that somebody else read about what somebody else read, that you have somehow gleaned ‘facts’.
This is a joke. Right?
You, personally, have no vaguest clue about LRH’s family life. You’ve never spoken to or even seen in person a single member of his immediate family.
How the f would any semi/quasi/partly intelligent being consider your 18th hand rantins as ‘fact’, let alone somebody with the ability to actually forward a reasonable discussion?
You can feel important on various natter boards. Not here, until you actually contribute something to the overall store of knowledge.
Hi Marty
here`s flowing more power to you,Monique and in fact all Indies, who CREATE,CREATE,CREATE this site!!! Had been held in “compression” for years thanks to the intoxicating “Kool -Aid” of Miscarriage and his Church of Entrapology. Just want to say that blogging your site is akin to running LIFE REPAIR processes allowing cogs & F/N’s as well !!!!! Bonus is I get to DECOMPRESS too, just for good measure!!! Message for the ” COB ” CoE and all his fearfully enslaved minions; It IS’NT all about the MONEY,MONEY,MONEY, but the FREEDOM, FREEDOM, FREEDOM. but you just don’t get AXIOM 28,do you??? BTW signed the petition and spreading the word . Keep ” CREATING” POWER to this site,y’all . much luv, Li’ll bit of stuff.
ie. the Ethics on trolling is a bit tighter here. Furthermore, this Site does not have the same Intentions of other Mediums openly rolling out the welcome mats to those, like ESMB, are just itching to take cheap Shots at Scientology.
Regardless what is right or wrong, the Freezone/Independents will not survive if they cater to those of PTS/SP characteristics denigrating Scientology. “Free Speech” troll parrot-drivel is the argument most commonly used to rationalize their covert Attacks on Scientology.
I think you are are a complete Ps****-l*****c, F*****g P****e of S**t.
But the “Free Speech” censorship around here doesn’t allow me to say that.
I wonder why?
I mean, why should we not have the “free democratic right” to bash each other when its the “absolute truth”? I mean its not illegal.
You get the Point?
Or more appropriately, do you not want to get the Point?
Blogs/Forums have Rules appropriate to the Nature and proper Function of the Medium and enjoyment of its Subscribers.
And “Free Speech” troll rhetorics have no basis here.
If I recall correctly, the person that Jack Nicholson accused of being unable to handle the truth was none other than … Tom Cruise! How appropriate…
the success of this Blog is due in large part to the manner in which Marty moderates it.
This forum is here to illustrate the truth of Scientology, the workable technology and the failure of the corporate church that was charged with it’s safe keeping.
I am honored that Marty allows me to post on this blog and to be associated with an amazing bunch of thetans that populate it.
I also appreciate that Marty throws out the occasional “drunk” and/or trouble maker, and won’t allow personal attacks to be voiced as they don’t contribute to the discussion.
Thanks for allowing me to join the party!
Science is utterly dependent upon unproven belief; otherwise, it could never advance.
I think he’s decided to censor us.
I don’t speak for anyone else but I’ve never had a good reality on the consistant gibberings of those whose best talent seems to be making others wrong as their way of creating the apparency of stable space. Couple that with needing to have and please a leader well… that’s pretty much a track to oblivion right there and creates nasty little people who walk it.
My tolerance of those types is getting even less with the small amount I have left as I get older.
Marty’s Blog is a space in which his use of the word ‘home’ seems appropriate – a safe space in which to grow. I like it here, the rules are simple.
+100
“There is a responsibility to freedom of speech- it does not include freedom to slander and lie and incite hate. There is a skill to the art of debate and i do feel that if one seeks to enjoy to exercise his right to freedom of speech that he should also seek to exercise it responsibly and learn to develop the skill of expression without base, degrading and false comments and accusations as did our forefathers. ”
Therein lies the major misunderstood/false data attached to the First Amendment.
Marty & Mosey,
Thank you for welcoming us to your home, heart and ideas. You have every right to expect all visitors to maintain good manners and respect. You owe nobody anything (except Sam for her computers), we owe you for what you say and do daily to expose actual crimes of hatred and betrayal that are violations of law; all the while continuing to deliver and encourage delivery of Standard LRH Tech.
That is being effective, that is why all the noise and bullshit allegations. DM hasn’t anything else to say or do from the corner he’s managed to get himself into. Pathetic actions by a desperate sociopath.
Eileen
Marty
Not only is Xenu X Jr is bigot, but he/she/it has the arrogance to determine who can think critically and who cannot. And like all bigots, he is a coward in hiding and speaks from vast lack of knowledge and experience. Another example of a cur , whose only “joy” in its miserable life is to bark at the caravan as it continues to move on.
Count on it!!!!
‘Marty’s Blog” uhm “Fancy’s Blog ?
Marty,
Personally, I am not at all interested in dealing with outside OSA agents with the “one way street attitudes” who are not interested in LEARNING. These people have a peculiar way of trying to ‘impinge’ which destroys open communication. In that respect, I am very happy to see that the most extreme of the narrow minded are filtered out.
Mr. Miscavige and his minions will never achieve the state of OT as long as they are enslaved in a tangle of conflicting viewpoints. Mr. Miscavige’s physical aggression and recent verbal attacks through his agents are conclusive proof that he has not developed any OT abilities. The suicide of OTVIII Biggi Reichert is conclusive proof that only self-interest rules in the corporate world of Scientology. It is so ironic that the title ‘Chairman of the Board’ found its way into a self-help movement. It reminds me of the weight-loss centers.
When you are ready, Mr. Miscavige, I will point you in the direction of OT if you will just calm down and sort out your mistakes. You can learn from this blog if you pay attention.
Much loving-kindness,
GMW
“Science is utterly dependent upon unproven belief; otherwise, it could never advance.”
Simple statement but it says everytthing !
I likeit. 🙂
Just want to add one more thing. Realised within the RCS that those who don’t get the expected results from their participation within that group really need to have someone outside of that group to blame to remain with the reality of the group The angerer they get the more they target ‘something/someone’ else for their failure to feel better in life – it’s all put in the future for them. Big BIG difference with someone giving you reasons why and the inner feeling of acomplishment.
May the groups’ demise be swift for compasionate reasons.
It says: “… only 2 l/2% of this 20% are truly dangerous …”
(HCOB 27 Sep 66 THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY/THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST)
ROCK SLAMMERS
In a group of 400, the actual percentage of R/Sers is low. It’s about 8 in 400, or 2 – 2 1/2%. Those figures should seem familiar. They are the same percentage for SPs. (HCOB 1 Nov 74 Qual ROCK SLAMS AND ROCK SLAMMERS)
Although history affords us innumerable examples, they are so common in the society around us that one does not have to go into a study of mass murderers to find them. The phenomenon is by no means rare and at the absolute minimum is 2 l/2% of the population. (CERTAINTY Mag [February, 1966] Psychotics)
Word Clearing works.
XXJr., It takes one to know one?
Ferris honey, you need a class in grammer and punctuation. When did you drop out of school?
+100,00000000000
So, do any of those protesting Marty’s “moderation policy” feel that it is wise to allow obvious and avowed enemies total access to your comm lines?
Would you allow someone to come into your home and call your wife a “slut”? Would you let someone, posing as a friend, or simply “exercising his right of free speech”, come into your home and openly attempt to seduce your spouse, or your underage children? Would you allow someone to freely come into your place of business and tell lies about how “bad and dangerous” your products are, to all your customers? Do you actually think that they have that “right”?
I think not.
Also, you may or may not be aware that there is a percentage of people who use the internet to simply cause trouble or to vent their insanities or their dramatizations. Often the content of their “comm” has absolutely nothing to do with anything the targeted blog is representing. To allow that kind of nonsense simply clutters the blog and is nothing but enturbulation. Do you think that they have the “right” to be heard?
To not have some form of “moderation policy” would leave one open to a “free-for-all” feeding frenzy by those who are doing everything they can think of to suppress you and your Dynamics. (friends, family, groups you belong to, and mankind generally) If you think that this is overstating things, then I suggest you read back over just about any post presented on this blog.
Marty has stated a purpose for this blog and a “moderation policy” which is intended to forward that purpose.
I personally find Marty’s “moderation policy” to far more on the “liberal side” of the ledger, and I am in agreement with his stated purposes and his obvious products toward those ends.
Eric S
Priceless !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right !
Sorry, guys, I don’t buy your independence. I don’t read this blog often and this is my first comment but whenever I read it, I read hostility against others who likely gave up trying to communicate with you.
I could handle your serv facs in three days. I guarantee this much, you’d lose a heck of a lot fewer lunch breaks.
Oops, not where I had planned this to go.
This was just intended to be an “open comment”, not targeted to any specific poster.
Eric S
And in fact, several ESMB anti-LRH stalwarts , including Alanzo, were banned from ESMB last year for posting too many tantrums and hissy-fits regarding their “free speech rights” being infringed. They wanted ESMB to be Thunderdome, and Emma did not because she wanted to be more inclusive of pro and con viewpoints. Not all “exes’ are 100% anti-LRH or anti-tech or philosophy.
My point is that any blog or forum will have it’s standards, and violating those can get you suspended or banned when you pick a fight with the moderator(s).
Blessed are those who go around in circles, for they shall be known as ‘big wheels’.
Eileen,
+100. Very well written concepts. Thank you. I fully agree. This is Marty’s home and I am glad we are welcome. But, some have obviously worn out or abused their welcome so to those – adios. And for the rest of us we are still moving on up a little higher.
Hi LI’LL BIT
Well done on taking advantage of the “free Processing”.
Good to have you here.
Eric S
Data correction isn’t personal, sorry if you took it that way. If 2 1/2% were truly suppressive personalities, the remaining 97 1/2% would be Potential Trouble Source. In my view, that isn’t nit-picking.
You make a good point insofar as (for example) waiting for a three-swing floating needle while the PC is obviously happy (and many other examples, such as gross abuse of the term “ethics” and “sec check”). Otherwise, the correct number is 1/2%, just like 1.4% is 1.4% and is to be taken literally and not fudged into 7%. I’m not only on-topic, I happen to be right.
Thanks for a peek into the traffic on this blog that you have to deal with. I think you are doing a great job of moderating the blog, so that there is a diversity of opinions and experiences, but keeping things moving along in a sane fashion. At some point, you might want to find and appoint a couple of trusted and like-minded people who can help you moderate the blog and allow you to take time off and get away from the blog.
Formost,
Thanks for the references, I stand corrected.
I TAKE BACK PREVIOUS POSTS WITH APOLOGIES. Hadn’t read those, and I appreciate the clarification.
My own experience seems to indicate fewer than 2 1/2%.
Carcha.
my pleasure, Karen
I find it interesting, as well.
“I don’t read this blog often….”
it is evident
but, when you do, you ‘read’ it wrong….in my opinion
Please show me a negative post comment on any of the Church of Scientology web sites. Lets see one post for a disgruntled, failed or ruined L’s or NOTs PC out of Flag.
Start your own Blog Ferris. I promise I will read it as long as it is as class an act as this one.
Boy, when the GPM reverse flow eventually hits you – won’t you be one lonely little spirit.
Enjoy your viewpoint – because that’s all you’ve got!
+ 10
My prediction is that on the day that DM is deposed, indicted, blows or is otherwise no longer misrunning the church, the content of Marty’s blog will change dramatically. It might even cease, since it will have served its purpose. People who come here to bash Scn, LRH, Marty, etc., don’t understand that. DM, however, understands it only too well.
As a none believer in scientology and ardent critic of the church of scientology my own experience has been that you have published all my comments. I don’t believe anything Hubbard wrote is any better than advise given in self help guides. I think some of his stuff to be wacky, same is true of most other religions though. I also think some of his stuff to be perhaps misguided. I actually have a lot of respect for LRH in that he did what he did for all his other sins. I am fascinated to see how this independent scientologist movement will evolve and was pleasantly surprised by the post re the definition of independence and many of the comments posted. Call it self help, call it a religion but keep it personal and don’t form corporations or organisations around it, that’s where the trouble always starts as inevitably dogma is introduced and some people use it to exploit others.
Sherb,
What a wonderful observation! In life, as in the “church,” I’ve seen this wrong target used in desperation, when speaking the truth is not permitted, and yet something needs to be communicated … the rallying call becomes a loudly asserted “it’s THEM.” Unfortunately, it doesn’t solve anything because it isn’t based on truth.
And a big + 1 to yours of “May the groups’ demise be swift for compasionate reasons.”
* “Yes, I’m continually looking for Reasons to denigrate Scientology, but it’s not really my Intent to do so.” *
This is a pro-Scientology Blog/Forum, it deals with Topics relating to the State and Application of Scientology from which its Members have benefited tremendously, and have no Questions in Respect its Workability.
I’m sure this isn’t exactly News to you, and I’m sure you are also not particularly interested why these Members have no Doubt about the Improvements in their Lives as the Result of having practiced Scientology.
But this isn’t good enough for you, because after all … you need to degrad… I mean find “The Truth”.
You, from under that Rock of yours, wishes to pollute this Blog/Forum with Subject Matter that invalidates the very Topics that these Members hold dear to themselves. It’s not that your fallible Points cannot be easily shot down, but the Fact that it’s such a Waste of Time and Energy responding to something that has no constructive End-Point … nothing gained by proving you wrong.
Trolls seek to pull down higher-toned individuals by concerning them with their lower-toned invalidative topics, and thereby hijacking the very purpose of this Blog/Forum. Thus a Line needs to be drawn, and invalidating (overtly or covertly) the very Purpose of this Discussion Medium is in Fact subtle “Trolling”.
Generalization … another Hallmark of Trolls.
They probably do deserve them.
Just from the Scientology denigrating Trolls. What you refer to as “WOGs” has actually been very receptive to Freezone/Independent Scientology, as its rather affordable and without the stifling Environment of the Church.
And as a side Note, should LRH’s History ever get in the Way of mind-blowing Gains and Wins in Life, I might give it a Yawn or two.
There’s critical thinking and then there’s narrow-minded absolutism. If you’re the advert for rational thought, I think I’ll stick with Santa Claus.
Lol, Thing is the real babs doesn’t consider herself OSA but she does do Miscavige dirty work like any good member of the church of scientology. She’s more of a mercenary or as marty says a dupe. Her file entry says as much: “…will only do things she can be convinced are ethical, trusted but may need reassurance. Watch.” Basically when given something she may ask a few questions but is easily swayed. Needs TLC is all. Good luck tracing that leak, or will you just mock up something else and pretend it’s not true l33t OSA?
Ev,
You can write to me personally if you like. If you ‘give up’ then, well, that’s a possibility. Maybe you won’t. Maybe you will gain an ARC for independence. In any case, you’ll accept mine.
You won’t likely buy it, but then it’s not for sale.
Why I like, Moving Up a Little Higher.
I like this blog because it does not censor worthwhile information and commentary. If Marty censors 1.4% of posts, fine. I have read much of what he should have censored (IMHO). It falls into a categories of; not worth reading, doesn’t add to the discussion, provides no personal insight, is purely entheta, is a personal attack lacking specific data to support claims made, obvious lies, OSA Agents, useless gibberish, attempts to derail a discussion, etc.
The censoring of vile, disreputable lies and distortions keeps the blog from turning into a place of nattering nabobs. Many other blogs allow almost anything to be posted even drivel from obviously base individuals, so naturally those blogs attract base individuals. These are the people that shit where they eat, pardon my use of expression. I am thankful to not have to read their drivel here.
This forum provides for a more eloquent and intelligent responses and posts from more eloquent and intelligent people. Uptone people shun entheta communications so by censoring the garbage the more uptone persons stays. This is a refreshing change from many blogs containing argumentative slanderous bilge scum for content.
It is interesting to note that those few uncensored posts that Marty does allow, Allender for example, are almost always of the lower tone band in content.
Certainly OSA would like to Move On a Little Lower in postings to this blog thereby driving people away.
I personally appreciate the class of posters to this blog, the various perspectives they bring and their great variety of experience and personal stories.
It enhances my appreciation for free thinking individuals and gives me hope that there still are many decent people that care about what goes on. Their numerous experiences and stories (names, dates, times etc given) flush out our understanding of our common interest and drains the lies and mysteries away.
There is so much lie and distortion of truth on the track it is disquieting to have found it in the Church in such volume. This blog, through its postings and commentary, dispels and unfolds the lies and the truth is revealed, pleasant or not.
So, censor the crap away Marty and let the naysayers have their say elsewhere, all 1.4% of them. Maybe they can form a group and throw their excrement at each other, like monkeys at the zoo.
Meet the Guy Who Snitched on Occupy Wall Street to the FBI and NYPD
http://gawker.com/5850054/meet-the-guy-who-snitched-on-occupy-wall-street-to-the-fbi-and-nypd
“Sorry, guys, I don’t buy your independence”
That’s OK. It isn’t for sale.
Mr. F,
So, does this mean you are taking you aren’t going to play, are taking your ball and going home?
You and I have had some interchanges over the past many months on this blog. I have taken exception to your use of unfounded claims which you seem to fail to see are simply assertions, made by others, taken from others and have no basis in reality. This is the objection I have, and you as well, to what DM has done with his false stats, his LRH hagiography, and the list of bullshit that emanates from him.
Well, you can’t very well emanate bullshit here, and expect it to be taken. So this petulant comment you’ve made is just a load. It’s what we’d call being a “suck”, a whiner, a baby who didn’t get his way.
I personally think you are a much more intelligent person than this post would indicate. You’ve been able to carry on a discussion and willing to look at facts before. Now, waaaaaaaa, I’m not playing with you meanies.
I have little patience for the ill-researched, canned and propagandized nonsense from DM or you. If you want to go sulk, g’head. When you destim and can come up with something more on par with the standard of content here, then you’ll be back. See you then.
OMG. I at least work to have understanding of all viewpoints. I may not always do it but this is just a bit too over the top. You make some good points but then totally lose me with, what I consider, to be borderline zealotry.
Anyway, I don’t expect to come to this blog and talk about anything other than the main points that we can all agree upon and that is okay with me, I like this blog and I feel a camaraderie here regarding the things that we do agree on and that’s a good thing. I genuinely and I mean very genuinely love many of the people who post here regularly and I do not want to be in an us vs them scenario. It’s not my thing.
I am not interested in challenging anybody on anything as I see that is counter productive BUT, when I see posts like the one above, I get very disappointed (to put it euphemistically).
If you were to see my posts on ESMB, you would see that they are, for the most part (unless I get really pissed off) very fair and not personal. I have certain points of view that I work hard to keep constrained to the subject itself and not the individuals involved with any particular discussion.
I think that you will see that certain people who post on ESMB,myself included, will have a hard time being told that they are PTS/SP types simply because they are not buying the whole fairytale (and yes, some of the official LRH history/legacy/story etc. is a fairytale) hook, line and sinker. To expect them to is, quite frankly, still a bit of cult like behavior in that it is denigrating someone for having a viewpoint based on official docs and then enforcing what one wants or wishes the truth to be instead of that which is.
Sam,
Barbara Schwarz is not allowed on any of the critic sites (“natter boards”), either.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Hi Dan
“….It might even cease, since it will have served its purpose…..”
Oh gosh, I hope not. Although it has a purpose of exposing the atrocities that are perpetrated upon decent people, by the “church of Miscavige’s Scientology”, it has the higher purpose of us all “moving on up a little higher”.
Beyond handling the aberration and evil and out ethics that are all too prevalent on this planet , there lays the hope for the future.
I believe this blog has been instrumental in forwarding the humanitarian goals that L.Ron Hubbard, and many of the rest of us, have for mankind, and the spiritual freedom of beings. Thus I value it highly.
Eric S
Thank you, Marty, for the best comm line on the planet.
What do we discuss here? Well, lots of things, but my favorite is about the spiritual nature of man.
Critics? Pah!
If you’re not getting flack, then you’re not over the target.
Marty it may seem irrelevant to post this here but I ask for permission as everybody should be updated on the Petition and it’s the only way in such blog to put it as much high on the thread as possible.
here is the scoop:
Karen de la Carriere has been working flat out on the petition and we now are at a range of 18-25 per hour for the 3-4 laste hours. This shows the amount of traffic ONE person CAN HANDLE. We need an OT number by 4-5 more guys and we are done.
The scene has completely reversed at his pace. We are now at 1723 signatures in 6 days. This is 287 per day or 12 per hour. We are way up at 18 or 20. But Karren guarantees 500 SIGNATURES in 6 days. What about the REST 1223?
We need to seriously get GUYS FLAT OUT ON THE PETITION. Karen has been doing something VerY successful so more people need to duplicate that before it’s too late. We now have a BIG CHANCE.
Thank you, Marty. I’m not sure why, but Barbara Schwartz has written junk (Lies/falsehoods/at best twisted parts of facts) about me for many, many years. The fact that she’s now here is amazing. Thank you ALL!
Mike,
Is it true that Illuminati have green blood?
Seriously,
Jim
Marty, to illustrate a point on how one of the rumor lines started, a fence sitter (respectable person of decent reputation posting anonymously on blogs) talked to his good friend Bob Adams OSA staff, mentioning my name. Bob told him confidentially some of this stuff (about my wealth and senior church connections, that I was connected so high up that OSA themselves couldn’t deal with me, that I left the SO wealthy, etc. Bob then swore him to secrecy on the data and where he got it from. The fence sitter, being a decent human being, decided other people in the critic community needed to know about me “back channels”. Before long it was a full blown rumor “verified by several sources” and some versions rather fancifully embellished.
My Secret letter to OSA was from the hat of Scientology Illuminati that they assigned me, don’t know if they listened or took my advice though.
Zealotry?
Great roll back.
Thank you SO much, Sam!~I greatly appreciate people who have enough courage to not only stand up against “black pr”..but are willing
to call what they see, also. I’ve spent years asking people such as BS to call me, come over, or lets meet for coffee or tea and talk. Naturally
N o n e of them will. Again, thank you! 🙂 Tory/Magoo
If it only ended there! Apparently Emma and my self were the window through which Marty was taking over ESMB through the agency of Mike Laws. Why? Because Marty was working for the IRS (google IRSology) and taking back the CofS “from” or “for” David Miscavige (strike out which ever hobby horse they aren’t riding today). There was even a diagram drawn by Joe Lynn at the time showing how the CofS was controlling the whole critic scene via these (us) tools.Have a look at the venn diagram; http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r195/exscn/?action=view¤t=esmb-infestation02.gif.
Joe now claims that WWP is nearly handled. Good comedy is born from tinfoil.
As I’ve written and spoken about on my YT Site (ToryMagoo44)…I did
work with my then best friend and auditor, Bill Yaude, who was also working with OSA to “Handle the Internet Critics ruining our church”.
As Bill told me: the 3 goals of OSA (re the Net) are:
1) Distraction off of ANY topics they did not want known
2) Degrading of various critics
3) Sliming area—-so literally people don’t want to put their names on that site.
One of the things Yaude also told me is: “We use people”. Basically he’d get in “ARC” with them, and then filter in the black pr they wanted posted.
I’ve often said what grathuln says above: BS is just a dupe. It’s sad, as one of my friends went to find out who she was…and she used to be a staff member, gone pretty crazy. Shame on you, OSA Ops, for using someone like that. Love to ALL 🙂 Tory/Magoo
Yes, thanks, Sandy! We’re getting there!!~! 🙂
Journey,
A study of the various branches of science, and the current grasp in those branches of things such as ‘consciousness’, the animating element of a single cell, an actual definition of time and/or space beyond the one proposed in the Special Relativity of Einstein ‘that which is measured by clocks’, howcome there are quantum leaps of energy states and not a continuity of infinitesimals, and a host of other unanswered questions, will give one pause when citing as ‘authority’ over the subjects embraced by Scientology, ‘science’.
What worth is ‘peer review’ by a person who has no grasp of or reality on something as blatantly there as his very own mental image pictures?
To clamor for ‘peer review’ is to assume that the reviewers have some sort of superior objective view of the topic. What on earth does Xemu base that assumption on?
I’ll tell what Xemy, as soon as one of these ‘peers’ can tell me what consciousness is, from THEIR perspective, ‘scientifically’, then maybe I’d entertain his review of the subject of spiritual awareness of life and source. Till then, he can review rocks falling and wonder if space-time and Minkowski got it right (which is still being tested and currently has NO evidence for ‘gravity waves’.)
Wisher,
As both statistics and sociology are personal/hobby interests, I understand what you are saying, but the concept is irrelevant to the discussion. Peer groups, statistical and social analysis of the type of subject being rejected, and analysis of people posting when many/most do so anonymously and often under false personas is impossible to analyze scientifically. A scientific study required a consistent known or unknown quantity in motivation for posting. Here you have people intentionally trying to disrupt, idiots, covert operatives and all the rest. What you suggest is completely irrelevant in a persons forum that is trying to forward a message and continuity of content.
Marty never said 100% of the posts banned are sociopaths. Though the COS and both my ex wives might define me as a sociopath, the majority of my life contacts and family probably wouldn’t … and Marty has banned a number of my posts. Its his right, its his blog.
Having tried to make piece with some of the most vociferous critics who were banned even from “wild west forums” I became convinced that some of them were bitter people unable to create any measure of “success” or personal interest in their own stories or own thought processes so want/need to jump on the coat tails of others that write and express ideas that have tremendous popular appeal.
This is only a damn blog, a blog that Marty runs in his spare time that a lot of people are fascinated by. Even the people that criticize Marty are glued to it as evident by the many comments from such that he let through here. If they are so upset with him, why do they keep coming back and trying to or posting again? Any rational human being would say “shit, he don’t want me in his sand box, so I am going to build my own to play in”. Problem is they can’t, look at the in-numerous statistically failed very expensive sites put up to trash M&M by the COS!
Your point may be interesting in a college classroom, but in the real world, this world, it is completely irrelevant.
Certainly that is not the only word you wish to concentrate on in all of my paragraphs, is it?
Yes and I said “borderline” to give the benefit of the doubt because I don’t know Formost and words on a page can certainly get misunderstood but there is quite a bit of loaded language in Formost’s post meant to show derision and divisiveness.
I won’t apologize for enjoying the softer arts of kinder social lubrication. I much prefer the posts that come from what I consider to be a place of a lot more breadth of understanding despite disagreements like, say, from OnceUponATime for example. Christie is excellent at that too and many others as well.
Hey, I have a viewpoint and there it is 🙂
I had heard these same complaints, Mr Fancy, and that’s actually what got me to begin posting here. I am not an “Independent Scientologist”, however I respect each person’s right to use whatever tools they find work and/or beliefs they may have. I’ve found Marty to be quite the opposite of what the generalities are, and the people who do post here and have been quite kind to me. He’s posted almost all of my posts, even if they differ in some ways. As Andreas says about his web site: “Please talk with each other as if you were in my living room”. I try to keep that in mind. I doubt people would say much of what they type, IF they kept that in mind.
My best to you all 🙂 Tory/Magoo
WW,
I’ve had a couple of my posts moderated. On several occasions, I’ve actually written requesting it. I’d given second thought to my comments and pleaded for moderation. I can be ‘colorful’ at times.
The 3P op going on is nothing other than OSA whining and working what they think will derail things that they have no grasp of. Since they can’t manage to carry on one of their own blogs to counter what is going on here, now they are attempting to Black PR this one in hopes to stem the tide of its messages. And, to needle their way in. They wanna play too, and can’t so they whine.
This place is the phenom. This is the life force. DM wants to destroy it, so his SP Group members are plying their trade of lie, rumor, gossip, and such.
Quote;
“The story goes that moderators on this blog are wholesale preventing comments from appearing that might stir dissent.”
OMG what a heinous crime. (Even though this “story” obviously it isn’t even close to the truth, given the accompanying docs), but that anyone should DARE to try to interfere with David Miscavige’s attempt to “stir dissent”. Oh my. How am I ever going to live with myself for associating with someone who isn’t willing to let suppressives or their agents run roughshod over his (Marty’s) attempt to bring a little truth and sanity to beings who have been “damaged” by Miscavige’s Scientology, or by Miscavige’s thugs.
And if it isn’t David Miscavige, then who? Who benefits from this allegation? Who else is it that doesn’t want Marty’s blog, and this association of beings, to exist, and if not, why not?
The allegation is apparently not true, so if one continues to forward it, having been presented with the evidence, then their motives are highly suspect. If you find that you have been “duped” simply stop forwarding the false data, and then watch to see who continues to harp on it.
Pull the string.. and then…
Eric S
Absolutely Mate, glow in the dark antifreeze green! Hows life in the wold of wonder?
Marty and guys PETITION—HOT—HOT—NEWS
sorry for intervening but this is HOT NEWS from the front of the Petition. We are now moving at a pace of 30 plus per hour thanks to Karen de la Carriere and other Indies and Freezoners.
Karen leading the Indies is REAPING OFF DMs head.
Her speed and AMOUUUUNT of communication ALONE can Dissolve the BUCKET = DM !
We are now at 3300 almost. 1700 to go but at this pace we can do it in 2 and a half days…..
Monsieur Bailey,
You are endowed with an abundance of life. An aesthetic mind of infinite proportions and I’m sure some very nice sneakers.
First of all, there has to be SOME judgment as to what kind of comm is allowed on any popular blog. One or two percent of disallowed posts is actually very small..Otherwise (even if there was no OSA influence) you’re simply gonna get a whole LOT of looney posts which will make the blog itself unreadable to folks who are serious about the subject being discussed (you’ll start to see the word “illuninatti” crop up and before long a string of posts that will link Marty and LRH with the grassy knoll or some such wackiness). Now, having said that, it also needs to be acknowledged that there IS a corner of the ARC Triangle called “reality” and there most definately IS a shared reality by most of the regular posters on this blog. As with ANY group, there will be both welcome and UNwelcome communication. A saavy communicator realizes this and tailors his or her comm to the group being communicated to. Take Tory Christman for example. I am a regular viewer of all her videos and I can tell you that she has dramatically different viewpoints of LRH and Scientology philosophy than Marty has. But she does not state these viewpoints when she posts on this blog. She restricts herself to the topics being discussed and what interests the regular readers of the blog. Absolutely nothing wrong with that – that is how A, R & C work together. There are boundaries to Marty’s interests and the regular posters of this blog’s interests and there will be such boundaries in ANY group one encounters in life. Some groups are more tolerant of communication than others of course. I think Marty does a pretty good job in that respect, if one posts with manners and some sanity and logic.. At one point in time I hoped that an inspection of LRH’s evolving viewpoint of the 3D and his activities/tone level of such and how this all affected the Scientology world would be a topic of interest to the regular posters here.. But I found out quickly it wasn’t. So I needed to re-look at my application of ARC. The reason there HAS to be some sort of monitoring or censorship on a blog is because if you allow ANY comm to go through from ANYONE on the internet, you’re simply gonna get a ton of crazies, haters and in a situation of criticizing the COS/Miscavige, you’re also gonna get the intended “blog destroyers.” Yes, there is a First Amendment in the Constitution of the United States. But one is not allowed to stand in the middle of Congress with a megaphone and stop the business of the legislature. There are always agreed upon limits to communication. otherwise you cannot have any sane communication at all.
Bravo Lynne,
I too am tired of being told how stupid I am by people that don’t have a real life outside of their computer and virtual worlds, live succeed and have the losses that makes the real world so vibrant. I am also sick of being criticized by people that won’t do anything or take any risk or put themselves out there in the real world to win or fail, pick themselves up, dust themselves off and try again yelling “what a rush!”
Life is a contact sport, not a spectator activity.
Jimbo – G’day mate! – it is called ALTERED IMPORTANCE in LRH speak. Here you have a body of data from a mans lifetime of work that has done more than anyone else to help mankind and then you have a very small percentage of the people in society, who say they are just trying to be “fair” or show “balance” or point out outpoints so that we have have “the true data” about LRH and they glance right over the importance of the mans work. Let me clue you small percentage people in on something – The man himself is of little importance, it is what he DID that is important.
But those who try to discredit LRH are doing so in an attempt to discredit the tech and work he left behind.
I don’t care what LRH did in his own private life, I don’t care one bit about his temper, his drinking, being mean or any of that. What I do care about is when I am – for example – running a grades process on my pc and I watch the TA build up on a process and then bleed off of the process until it stops, then the pc has a cognition and then the needle floats. That’s all technology THAT WORKS. It is utterly amazing! It has been amazing to me for 40 years.
So you “fair” reporting folks or ones who “just want us to know the truth” know that I see you as a 1.1 anti-social who if I did a confessional on you right now you would see that you are the ones with the real crimes. And this goes for you idiots who kicked LRH under the bus in Reitmans POS.
Tom
grathuln,
I’m with you on the phenomenon of material becoming ‘dogma’. There seems to be some sort of cycle where a mystical insight, proposed to others for their experience (or not), becomes widespread and takes on the character of ‘religious ritual’.
Your observation is of the planet and the history of insights made. The messages of Siddhartha become rituals in the practices of the Mahayana ‘vehicle’. The concept of tolerance and pan-determinism of Jesus of Nazareth becomes observation of rules with no substantive manifestation of understanding.
Alas, it appears to be so even in Scientology that insights are construed as “morality” instead of tools for the being to his own native knowledge.
I consider this subject, Scientology, to also have the means to resolve that conundrum and inevitable consequence of the mystic become ritual in that Scientology has within it the means to ‘run out’ Scientology itself. The ways and techniques to see that Scientology does not master one’s thinking, but he recovers or retains his own Ulitmate Truth.
It is because of these devices and data that I see that once released, Scientology has no bag to go back into. It has irrevocably changed the course of the future. These days are just the beginning ripples of the fundamental wave sweeping across this vast spiritual universe.
Brilliant KBM: “Good comedy is born from tinfoil.” With apologies to the great line from Night Shift about Barney Rubble the actor: Joe Lynn — what a comedian!
I have an idea, why not have a section of the blog where you post all the censored comments? I’ve actually been very curious about OSA’s newest assinine propaganda. (I listen to Rush Limbaugh occasionally, as painful as that may be, because I want to know what the enemy is thinking.) Doing it this way none of your readers have to put up with a disturbance or derailment on a post, but if they choose too can see what people are attempting to post. This way no one can cry censorship, you can categorize & reply to the posts anyway you see fit and people curious about the rejected stuff can read IF they so choose – freedom of choice. Just a suggestion, but might be a way to shut the issue up once and for all rather than constantly swatting flies and trying to explain why – people can read for themselves.
Good. Here’s mine. I consider the labeling of that guy’s post as “borderline zealotry” as potentially indicative of some kind of “borderline zealotry.”
Marty, thanks. Wasn’t formal, and several friends helped me track data down, but it was orderly. But speaking of Roll Back, talk about a perverted and destroyed technology in the COS, so perverted that the name incites fear rather than relief at the idea of finding out how things got started.
I had forgotten the Roll Back advices until you mentioned this might be a good subject for an educational essay, roll back, in my opinion goes hand in hand with the Data Series. If every Scientologist were armed with that tool, and the balls to follow back the cause and source of destructive actions within their org, just using good communication skills, it would become incredibly evident where the source of problems were coming from. DM would be sitting there buck assed naked with his rosy red cheeks gleaming.
Is he that cunning to destroy such tech to keep people ignorant and himself hidden?
LOL, Kev, I forgot about that one!!!
You honestly can’t make this shit up!!!!!!
From HCO INFORMATION LETTER OF 2 APRIL AD14:
my bad. missing a close tag there. hope it don’t mess up the following comments.
Bruce
Oooh oohh that’s good news! Thanks Theo! Thanks Karen!
Michael,
Thanks. I think what happened with Roll Back is a microcosm for what has happened with just about all tech and admin technology. Hence, the “church” is dead.
Marty
Tom,
G’day!!
Yes, ALTERED IMPORTANCE, to say nothing of CONTRARY FACTS, DROPPED OUT TIME, and the host of illogics.
I’m with you. When that question given to a person ‘in-session’ jacks that TA, up, up, up, and he then spots ‘what it is’ and begins to say ‘it is a’ and the certainty comes up on his own observation and down crashes that Tone Arm, out pops the postulate and flush go the cheeks, loose and floppy goes the needle, well, THAT is all there is to it.
AFAIK, WordPress.Com does not have any built-in provision for moving comments around on the blog (I’m sure I could write a custom WordPress plug-in in PHP for such a purpose, if the blog were hosted on it’s own virtual server and not WordPress.Com). For that reason, without even addressing the desirability of such an idea, the administrative headache would be far too great to justify the effort.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
This place is absolutely beautiful!!!
And the people are real. So are the kangaroos, lizards, billions of wonderful birds, and yes, well the Eastern Brown at the top of the hill is real too, so I go around 🙂
Formost, although I assume your heart is in the right place, it seems to me you are overzealous in some of your statements. Your characterization of ESMB is one dimensional. ESMB is as diverse as any city. It has it’s ghettos and it’s upscale neighborhoods. It’s purpose is not specifically to provide a place for “LRH and Scientology bashers”, but to provide a place for exes no matter what their politics are. Naturally it is ripe for OSA tools and “useful idiots”(dupes). Nonetheless, Emma made sure that folks like Karen#1 are able to post there. She had to battle quite a bit of antagonism to make that happen, and ended up having to ban some of the more virulent objectors, who wanted to interpret “ex-scientologists” to mean “anti-scientologists” and ban them or drive them out of the ESMB group.
My experience in scientology goes back to the1970s. After 2 years of reading the personal accounts of scientologists more recently in the CoS, I sometimes wonder how anyone who got into scientology after 1985-1990 or so, has any positive feelings towards scientology, it has been so thoroughly poisoned, GATted, GAKed, etc. and twisted by Miscavige and his tools.
I do not promote “catering to those of SP/PTS characteristics denigrating scientology”, but neither do I promote the refusal to engage and handle those when necessary. That is the way of the Miscavige “OT VIII” – to refuse to associate, give assists, or ARC at all with anyyone else they psotulate are “beneath them”, they are so afraid to be “soiled” or “lose their gains” by contact with anyone supposedly “below” their level. They are “zealots” about it, and that is the kind of zealotry we need to not fall in to ourselves. It is one of the major reasons the CoS is contracting – it has been increasingly exclusive and thus inbred, instead of inclusive as Scientology was in it’s early days.
I think this is what Synthia might have meant by her reference to “zealotry”.
That is not to say I want this blog to be like ESMB, or for Marty to moderate it any differently than he has been doing. No. He has been doing an excellent job and making this a place I like to visit daily.
It is to say that from the perspective of someone who has not gone far up the Bridge but still has hopes of it, and has a liking for LRH as far as I know him from his works, I am sensitive to overtones of what sounds like a blanket intolerance and condemnation of people labeled “PTS”. Since I haven’t gone Clear yet, I am probably PTS by your standards; but that doesn’t mean I somehow welcome or accept being labeled and lumped into a “lower” category of people. That kind of action is one reason I stayed away from the CoS.
If I was able to come out of Non-E on ESMB in a constructive way, as was Karen#1, I feel it is an exercise anyone ought to try. But it does take a lot of discipline.
Sorry Sunny, one cannot post the censored comments in their own section, because then they would loose their “censored” status by being posted and not qualify. So its just impossible. Catch 22.
Call OSA if you want the scoop on their propaganda. Just like you force yourself to listen to Limbaugh.
Maybee someday there will be special briefings for those who need to feed on lies and vile and just cannot stand not knowing what was chopped by the moderator. There is always the National Enquirer and supermarket check-out magazines if you cannot wait.
Very good Ferris! Marty does indeed “sensor” accurately most of the time, and then “censors” what he “sensors” to be less than worthy of being posted here!
Jim
Funny you mention that, because I have had posts moderated too. And I was quite pleased they were, on retrospect. It would be interesting to count up the posts that were “moderated” for us that appreciated the help.
I often find I cannot get some of the comments that I write through even my own “moderator”. I will sit here and spew forth on this or that, and then upon reading it over, evaluate that it will serve no useful purpose to post it, so I delete the whole thing. Marty would likely have let it through, but I do not consider it his responsibility to see that I stay aligned to my own policies, intentions, and goals.
I find it curious that some people consider that the US government’s written policy about free speech seems to somehow be transferred to apply to everybody having to adopt that policy personally. What a load of nonsense.
Some people seem to rail against their “right to free speech” and in the same breath attempt to deny the right of free choice of association. I no more have to listen to everything everybody says than I have to associate with anybody I choose not to associate with.
The cries of “not allowing free speech” and “censorship” seem to mostly come from those who consider they have the “right” to hinder or destroy or disrupt any comm line that they please. That their assumed “right” to negate trumps another’s “right ” to freedom.
Oh well….
Eric S
My apologies for previous. I’d settle for Life Repair. Losing lunch breaks isn’t so bad.
Joe-You done said it good!
Marty,
Thanks for this post. It makes sense.
I have run into some instances of intollerance and hate recently. I had the idea, I could make it better but, not possible when dealing with fixed ideas and hidden agendas.
There are still many good people out there with very different ideas who, can let others be as they are and enjoy them despite the differences. This blog is full of this type of person. Thank goodness! Without you all I could have never peeled the onion of suppression and taken my life back.
Thank goodness for the moderators!
Jim,
12EEEE.
Which proves: A sneaker by any other name smells…. just as….sweet?
Which makes me wonder: a brand has a name; does a Coca-cola taste j as sweet if called Loca-cola?
Or, does one’s expectation alter the perception?
Ah, the questions generated by using another’s computer…
Not to mention walking a mile in another’s roses.
ps: It’s all your fault. Really.
BS seem to be channeling DM in a subtle way. Sad. And very creepy.
Cheers
I threw out all my Scientology materials many months ago. I thought maybe I was better off without Hubbard and his “belief system”. Well, last week I got 3.5 hours of expert auditing in LA. It was so, so, so wonderful. I can’t wait to do L11. So my ardent hope for you, mister ardent critic, is that you can get in session with a skilled independent auditor – not just so you can experience it, but you wouldn’t be posting here in the first place if you had no interest in improving yourself. I also think critical thinkers make the best auditors and preclears.
Yes, but I understand hummingbirds like him….
’nuff said.
Eric S
It’s fairly accurate and straight to the Point.
You shouldn’t feel lost, since the “zealotry” with which Scientology is attacked and trolled on ESMB is only the accepted norm.
Trolls attempt to do exactly that under the pretense of “Free Speech”. You may be missing the Point of my Post.
???
No Thanks.
Thank you, Marty (and other moderators) for keeping this blog running. I look back over the last year and wonder how I would have made it to this point without you and the blog.
Remember the time I commented as “Hallelujah” and it ended up first in the queue? I must have been “in hiding” as I sent you an email begging you to delete the comment because I didn’t want it to be “first.” You said, “No, cannot do that.” Nope, no special rules, no complicity there! LOL on me!
I’m so glad you have corrected the false report. That’s the very best you can do because you have the data to back up the correct report.
Yes, “… by and large we’ve done pretty well keeping the ship pointed in the direction of moving on up a little higher.” Thank you! Rachel
I’m one of those whose comments have been moderately ‘moderated’. Indeed, they should be. There is such a thing as proper decorum.
I’ll show you again.
And this time I’m not connecting the proprietor of this site.
Perhaps, though, the one you tube video that gave me uncontrollable belly laughs is at the link posted on my highlighted name. Totally sarcastic and cynical. I don’t agree with the overall conclusions of the producer, though.
I just want the sawed-off little prick, dm, to know that we’re on to him.
None-the-less, POB is a sociopath, aka, suppressive. I’ve seen him in action on his own dad on the FreeWinds. He’s one sick, twisted individual.
His day’s coming.
Scientology via Hubbard has been an instrumental tool in the grand awakening of us, mankind. We, the people, are done with wholesale degradation.
Sociopaths don’t get it.
It is our inclination and inherent disposition to improve conditions, of our own and others.
For the AnonSparrow fans: The Ex that still uses prts of Scientology in his protests.
Overzealous = incorrect assessment/indoication, thus nothing to respond to. Furthermore nothing has been promoted by me.
Just to take Note … that was never suggested. You may need to go back and see what I responded to in the first place, since your response to mine is a bit out of context. The Poster was complaining about having his Posts removed/banned, and the discussion proceeded from that point forward.
No it’s not. Another false Assessment. ESMB is a Toilet with a broken Flusher, and I don’t care who posts there.
You are weaving Way too much alter-is into my Post.
Ev, I don’t drink out of the same kool-aid pitcher as most of the people on this blog. I drink a totally different brand, but I did drink their brand for just under 10 years in the 80’s and early 90’s and got tired of the aftertaste. With that in mind, I read this blog regularly, some subjects bore me to tears others are just plain fascinating to watch. I love the way Marty keeps catching the “keystone cops”, it’s better than watching the old black and whites. But the point is if there were more posts on the subjects that bore me I would move on but it’s marty’s blog and he can post whatever he likes. One other thing, I’ve disagreed on things a few times and marty has aloud that to be posted as well as others who disagree. I’m sure if I got nasty or made snide remarks those might be declined and I would do the same if it was my blog. I’ve been impressed with Marty’s openess although I’m still waiting for the whole story to unfold. It’s been a great show to observe over the last couple of years.
+1
Well stated.
That Poster “knows” with full certainty that people haven’t learned to think critically … just how full of shit can they get?
Great Success Story!!!
What’s funny, is try to comment on an official Scientologist’s blog or on their YouTube videos. They block commenting like crazy. I’ve found a way to get through though, which is send official Scientologists Facebook Friend requests with a message!
Not a catch 22 at all – they are comments “censored” from the main blog for various reasons and posted elsewhere. They remain material cut from the important content of the blog. I think you have an MU and should revisit Heller to clear it up.
Beside your other snide comments, all with deeply flawed logic you apparently believe showcase some insight and wit, there has always been strategic merit in keeping you friends close and enemies closer. You may be fine being ignorant about what enemies plot against you, or their latest tactics, but I believe it’s useful info to keep abreast of such information. Marty is aware of what these OSA creeps post on their websites about him for a reason – it helps him catch them up in their crimes against him and what they are currently up to.
However, if what MH mentioned is true about it being a difficult undertaking to cull comments and post elsewhere – then not worth it. It was just a suggestion, nothing more. I do find the attack mentality on here from some posters disturbing. It seems certain people try to brown nose with Marty by attacking or trying to insult any poster they vaguely perceive might be unfavorable towards any of Martys pov. My post was nothing of the sort, but yet here come the nasty replies – or maybe you’re just a Limbaugh fanboy?
Thanks for the good news Theo. You and Karen have been the real heroes in getting this petition signed in volume!
Keep up the good work, Theo. You guys are the best!
Hi Sunny, yes it could be done somehow, but why bother? Those type of posts can be found at ESMB and other sites, so there’s really no need to give them any greater exposure than that, IMO.
Hubbard.
What a what a wonderfully controversial, productive, helpful and fascinating being. A true 20th century highlight.
Not mean, like the usurper.
A few howl, others bleat.
Those with stupid medals applaud.
The OSA blogs I’ve seen don’t allow comments at all,except possibly the ones they post themselves.
Congratulations Jim!!
OK, I did miss the post/poster to whom you were responding. Yes, it is alter-is. It is filtered through – me.
Beyond that, my only comment is that the real toilet is Flag and the RTC.
This blog, Marty’s Place, is only one of the most happening blogs in the blogosphere with hundreds of comments !! daily !! consistently because it is REAL and RAW. It’s alive, It’s synergistic, allows debate, disagreement, relief, lament, flaming, and even a few trolls (long enough to bop ’em). It trickles down form the top. Courage and CHARISMA!
You don’t get the ratings and the comments and the devoted avid readers that this blog does by being weeny censoring milk toast…. or a whimpy whisper campaigner. It’s called the REAL THING.
Ahhh, the right why. is like a balmy breeze —>
WWP has its rules, and ESMB is hardly pro-Scientology.
In any event, blog moderation is never censorship. Never.
Wow! damn that’s an elusive one, you perceived it, grabbed it and put it into words. So true!
Uh, no. Not everyone is affected by someone who is trying to kill them (one way or another). The general rule is 2.5% SP, 20% affected by them (PTS) and 80% living and loving life.
One of the truly awful false data of Mr. David Miscavige is his apparent insistence that if you sit next to an evil person, on the bus, say, you are automatically PTS (or badly affected) by him. That is absolutely not true.
Very nicely said. Thank you.
Les-You got their number-The overt doth speak loudly !They wouldn’t like my posts.
Sam-I love how you handle them.
Your house, your rules. You’re not censoring anything. You’re not the government. If somebody wants to say something and you don’t let them say it here, they can say it somewhere else.
For anyone unfamiliar with Rollback it goes like this: Mr. A tells you something. You ask A where he got it from and he answers Ms. B. You go ask Ms. B where she got it from and she says Mr. C. Mr. C says he got it from nobody. Mr. C is the person who originated it. Then, by keeping a chart of who told what to whom, you gain a picture of an entire network of people and the communications traveling amongst them. It is a good way to track down the sources of things. That’s it in a nutshell.
WW, well, what I meant is that once DM is gone things are going to change and it is hard to say what will happen then. DM is the first target and DM knows it. 99% of the misery generated by individual Scientologists originates from the mind of DM. The biggest plus point of this blog is CORRECT TARGET.
Mike
Are you telling me off for calling them “natter boards”? 🙂
No offense meant – I just think that ‘freedom of speech’ can become destructive where people like Barbara are allowed to run free reign causing havoc. Glad to know that this isn’t allowed on any of the other critic sites.
No worries.
Any time you’re in my neck of the woods pop over for a cuppa and a chat 😀
Touché 🙂
+1
I had been in communication with Barbara the time she had been around munich org. I had been told that she might be a bit „strange“, but did not care and talked to here back then. Being relatively new to organizational matters I cannot say if what she told me has any truth in it or not. But she told me that she is (at that time) working for the Guardians Office on some projects. The time label on that incident is a bit „pale“ (I should get some auditing to handle that) but I guess around 1979.
Carcha
You may be right. It may be less than 2.5 percent but to be honest all that math makes my brain hurt. It’s not that you’re ‘wrong’ it’s just that the exact figures really aren’t as important to some as they are for you so you’re not necessarily going to get agreement.
I think in broad, simple concepts and getting down to the nitty gritty minute details does my head in (but that’s me). A mathematician may have fun crunching numbers but I find it hideously boring. Different strokes for different folks.
Most of us are good. Those making life hell for everyone else are easy to spot and are a small minority (my take on it).
Peace 🙂
Thank you Scott, I want to say here so ALL of us see it that MORE people need to pull the weight. Karen guarantees that she can get 500 overall!!!!!
At 01.30 am LA time, we need 1628 still to go.
More guys need to pull the weight.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/144249398986435/ This is the Indie Scientology group which has somehow become the headquarters for the Petition thanks to Karry Campbell the Admin hosting us there.
Come on over and see for yourselves. I just do the monitoring when i am at home and people move people to sign up. Unfortunately Europe has a long way to go to catch up with the US.
So please MORE Indies needed like Karen and Pat Krenic to push the cycle through to a Done.
We need the Italians in Europe. COme on Italy. We can do it.
“Remember the time I commented as “Hallelujah” and it ended up first in the queue? I must have been “in hiding” as I sent you an email begging you to delete the comment because I didn’t want it to be “first.” You said, “No, cannot do that.” Nope, no special rules, no complicity there! LOL on me!”
Wonderful, how much control you have taken back of your life in 12 short months!!
And now helping others, you loving care of humanity is a mighty fine memorial of your family’s values and history.
🙂
Jim Logan claiming “Seriously,”
Yeah. Sure. I believe you 😀
My, “when the truth is not permitted…”
If that doesn’t hit you in the theta bucket, nothing does.
3rd Dynamics don’t postulate, ‘they’ only follow.
It takes an individual to change things – nice comment.
Axiom:
The first security guard (who wouldn’t show his ID) is ‘Andy’. He was Saint Hill security for years – don’t know if he still is. Legend has it that he stopped Marc Yeager (who was IG Admin at the time) from walking out of the NOTs HGC with confidential materials in 1990 when corn on the cob did a surprise ‘inspection’ of the base.
Scilon:
Good point on the bulging eyes. Andy never used to look like that. I have fond memories of who he used to be.
Update on petitions signed as of Tuesday, AM October 18th,
as of signature #3,375
The top ten states:
1. 492 California
2. 199 Florida
3. 168 Texas
4. 137 New York
5. 107 Washington
6. 87 Illinois
7. 76 Ohio
8. 71 Oregon
9. 67 Pennsylvania
10. 62 Massachusetts
Next in line:
11. 61 Arizona
12. 56 New Jersey
13. 50 Georgia
14. 49 Michigan, Missouri
15. 46 North Carolina, Virginia
16. 45 Minnesota, Tennessee
17. 42 Maryland
18. 38 Colorado
19. 35 Indiana
20. 33 Nevada
Next in line:
21. 32 Louisiana
22. 29 Utah
23. 27 Kentucky
24. 26 Connecticut
25. 23 Kansas
signing with no location indicated.
842 no location indicated (still takes the overall lead in numbers)
for those not in the U.S.
72 from outside the U.S. or didn’t recognize city, no state indicated
And I love your calm serenity and sanity Ingrid.
I wouldn’t give sending a PC to you a second thought – I know they’d be in VERY safe hands.
♥
Theo you and Karen are doing a great job!
I’ve done a head count and I’m pretty sure I can squeeze out 5 more by the end of the day.
If everyone does at least that then we’ll be well on the way to meeting the target.
😆 Wow, Mike! And Kevin! Didn’t know I was in the midst – I’m not worthy. LoL
Mike, exactly what I was thinking throughout your earlier comments of how you are characterized by dimwits. To them I say, get a real life!
Jim, that so totally indicates to me, being all intertwined like I am with spiritual beings mostly of the Catholic sort. We are all in this spiritual universe together.
Congrats Bryon!
Hey Chad,
maybe you should stick to the now defunct XSO forum? You seem to have at least one friend there who shares your cynicisms. You know who I’m talking about?
You do an excellent job, Marty. Your stats prove it. And having participated in other sites over the years, I GREATLY appreciate your moderating skills.
People communicate truth here and from that, I gain reality on what actually occurred/occurs in the group that was and is such a substantial part of my life.
Nice pic of you, R.
But my comment is for Marty. I am no OT but you are one and an almighty auditor. If OSA and Miscavige are as bad as you say, why can’t you handle OSA and Miscavige other than blogging?
Yes, love to all, except Barbara. Hubbard’s child or not, we hate her. She is the force behind Miscavige.
Bryan, you are one of my favorite posters but I miss controversy on this blog. In my opinion, Marty shuts them off too quickly. We should let them talk and try to convince them of our ways. Tory was rabbit OSA and turned.
Bryon,
Perhaps, to avoid confusion, “critical thinker” might be “analytical thinker” or “reasoned.” “Critical” has such a connotation of fault finding. There are so many intelligent individuals whose tendency is to find faults, to make wrong, to tear apart.
To observe without preconceived notions, to grant beingness to what is observed, and to seek to understand… Now, that’s the ticket. And such beings DO make the best auditors and preclears.
Mike (and Marty) – from my point of view, RB never officially existed, because it was “confidential” and not to be seen or used outside the SO. The ONLY reference I have ever seen on it – was none. Only verbal, and only in a negative, accusatory light.
I had RB run on me once by an SO teenaged girl (this was around 1982 or ’83, when I was in the BC). It was Not Auditing You, of course, and I was wondering what the cuss she was doing. “Roll back,” she said. I had never heard of it, and asked for the refs, which of course, she could not provide.
I can’t remember what she was RB’ing me on. I do remember that it was incredibly obvious – it may have been after I decided not to join the SO after an especially intense recruiting session, but it was something like “The prices are too high” or “SO members have very little free time” or some such thing. At the end of the day, it was my own origination, no something I had “heard” some anybody. I remember that it was incredibly absurd.
I’ll take your word that it is valuable tech, but I will never use it nor have it done on me without seeing the LRH on it.
Exactly Sam, exactly everyone should do 5 people. This is the minimum we can do.
Sunny, let me assume your in earnest and apologize for the snide tone. Perry was overwhelmed by your suggestion and should have handled it better. He is being punished.
If you familiarize yourself with the the policy letters on handling Black Propaganda and Enemy PR (all online) I believe you would see that your suggestion would not be the correct handling.
If you suggested to the Corporate Church that they carry links to Marty and Jeffs blog and website, or carried the declarations and posts of the independents, I do believe they would think you had lost your mind, were naive or were working for their perceived enemy.
I did not attack or belittle your post because it was unfavorable towards Marty’s POV. In fact your suggestion that the corporate position and statements be looked at and dead agented happens often when the situation warrants.
Sam, I’m only pointing out that even the anti’s have limits – and Barbara Schwarz has gone way beyond them.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Hey Eric S Pardon the comm-lag of Oct.17 { was catching up with much needed Zzz’s} Your warm welcome is genuinely appreciated and it feels great to be part of Marty’s group of {mostly} freed beings.Thank you all for sharing your diverse roads travelled which have all converged on Marty’s {soaring!!!} site. There is ample evidence to be found here by even the most jaded, of LRH’s early assertion that ” man is basically good ” and { when DE-aberrated }free to rise to greater heights ” Must therefore applaud Marty’s insight when naming the blog.[“V W D.”] Having read so many accounts of the unprecedented atrocities perp- etrated by this modern-day incarnation of Hitler,it is now now time to remind him and those of his ilk ” YOU WILL SUFFER THE CONSE- QUENCES ” {as ye sow, so shall ye reap {you creep !!} LRH,Mary Sue, and family,Heber,Jeff,Lisa,Mike,Marty and entire populations of decent people have had their lives destroyed /ruined by this sociopathic madman while hiding behind his “perceived” impunity of DM bots and attack dogs.[ all rotten to the core } Sigh … but wait.. there’s hope ???? Yup ! “Pick up the cans,please ….thank you…this is the session !” And no! There is NO hope for the DOPE!! Thanks for the opportunity Marty and Eric S Nice to CLUB {thud!} in ! Li’ll bit of stuff.
This article seems to be a symptom of your missed withholds, Marty. It’s interesting to see what kind reaction one honest blog article and one honest e-mail can cause.
I just don’t think that you, having served some 20 years to one of the worst SPs imaginable, have right to call anyone dupe. The fact that you have so many staunch followers doesn’t prove anything. They probably need to be leaded by a questionable character, it’s just that they replaced Miscavige by you.
I have reviewed the subthread here. it appears your comment is linked to Marty’s response to Mr Fancy, so I gather he is the one you were responding to.
In that context, your comments seem appropriate and to the point.
It is true that ESMB “flushes” individuals only in exceptional circumstances. I’m not advocating that this or any other site be like ESMB. Parts of ESMB are like “bad neighborhoods” in any city. Trolls live there, along with decent and even some enlightened people. Trolls are a fact of life. But even on ESMB, the trolls tend to keep to their own threads. The ones that wander at times are well-known and predictable.
And not every individual who is disaffected with “scientology” is a troll. Many have actually had a pretty bad experience at the hands of the CoS.
I do not visit ESMB often, for the reasons you mention. But I do see ESMB as a pretty typical human community in many ways, and there are some pretty good people working there, just as there are good people in any ghetto. It is to their credit, that they are willing to devote some time to posting in a “Toilet with a broken flusher”(Yes, I can see how that fits :-)). By analogy with the Occupy Wall Street idea, someday it may happen that we will called upon to “occupy ESMB”. And it is the consistent rules about the limits of free speech that are set there by the owner, that will make it possible.
You don’t need to reply, I wrote this mostly to clarify my own thoughts.
You’re welcome Sindy.
But I fear we have all missed the point here, and have misunderstood each other all around by not being specific and discriminating enough.
You, by not being very explicit and specific about what in Formost’s post offended you; Formost by not differentiating among the different types of individuals posting on ESMB, thus creating the impression that he thinks all who post on ESMB are turds of a feather swimming in the same toilet bowl;
and myself for not taking a deep breath and reviewing all the previous related posts before jumping in. But I’m not sorry about that; sometimes it’s better to jump in and sort it out as I go along.
Rereading Formost’s post and reviewing what he was responding to, it seems he really wasn’t very overzealous at all. Just a bit too general about ESMB. There are in fact some “turds” on ESMB; naturally you were offended to be summarily lumped in with them. But I don’t think Formost is a bigot, he just doesn’t care for ESMB, and neither are you, you try to see the best in each person and don’t like to hear generalizations about people.
zeal
n.
Enthusiastic devotion to a cause, ideal, or goal and tireless diligence in its furtherance.
zealotism, zealotry –
a tendency to undue or excessive zeal; fanaticism.
zealotry –
excessive intolerance of opposing views
Well I’ve sorted it out to my own satisfaction. Hope it contributes something to yours. 🙂
Profant, your logic is flawed.
If Marty is indeed a past “dupe” who has awakened and “de-duped” himself, who has a better right and ability to recognize when another is still “duped”?
As for me, if you think you know whether I am here because I need to be “led” by someone, you are your own biggest dupe. I was never a member.
You have never met me, or anyone else who posts here I bet, but you can generalize about us all? You wouldn’t happen to be a psychiatrist, back there in Slovenia, would you?
I Agree, Grasshopper. It is the expression of an ethic.