Dr. Brad and Natalie Hagemo – Twin Cities Independents

Brad is a successful Optometrist who has been helping people see better for over 25 years in Minnesota. He has been a supporter of – not just financially, but as a time and effort contributor to – community causes involving keeping kids off drugs spreading the “Say NO to Drugs, Say YES to Life” message in the Twin Cities.

In addition to helping Brad manage his practice Natalie works as a freelance writer and columnist.  She is OT IV and writes a column for a local paper called “Outside the Box”, where she participates in activities that are outside her comfort zone and writes about them.

Natalie was Mrs. Excelsior 2008 and competed in the Mrs. Minnesota pageant, all the while promoting her platform which was spreading the “Say NO to Drugs, Say YES to Life” message for the Foundation for a Drug Free World. That was until the church kept distracting her from that purpose by asking her to buy more basics and donate money etc.  Natalie was more interested in keeping kids off drugs. She emphasizes the strength of that interest by publicly relating that her biological father was and is a drug addict so this cause is near and dear to her.

You gotta love this couple.

 Declaration of Independence
Having been dedicated Scientologists in good standing for the past 20 years and patrons of the IAS, it is with a heavy heart and a firm resolve that I Brad Hagemo and my wife Natalie do hereby withdraw our support of and membership in the Church of Scientology International.  We wish to make it clear that we still support LRH, his goals and his legacy of the Tech.  We also want to acknowledge a clear distinction between the staff and public of our Churches and Missions still struggling to maintain a semblance of LRH‘s church, versus those who blindly follow the dysfunctional executive strata of  C of S International headed by David Miscavage.

LRH made it clear that we inherit the condition we fail to assign.  We all have an obligation as free thinking, responsible thetans to look honestly at the conditions which exist in our dynamics and apply the correct formula.  For too long we have ignored the true condition of the C of S because we wanted to believe the smoke and mirrors PR line that we were winning.  When we did look at the isness what we saw was a small, desperate group of individuals playing a new and off purpose game of acquiring real estate, which we cannot afford and cannot justify based on statistics.  Our Church had morphed into something that was both unfamiliar and unwelcoming.

At elaborate International events we would hear about the “demand” for C of S services as a justification for the off-policy fundraising for “Ideal Orgs”.  Fundraising done with full disregard of the very clear  LRH policy against it.  We looked at our own local org and saw no such demand.  We did see endless demands for time and money, overwhelmed staff, and a growing ARC broken field.

We did see tables put in front of doors to stop parishioners from leaving after a Maiden Voyage event turned into a fundraiser.  We did see upstat Scientologist physically stopped from leaving a recruitment cycle, and threatened with ethics actions if they did not stay, by a Sea Org member.  Further being told they wouldn’t be allowed to leave unless they signed the contract.

We did see attempts to break up families.  A recruitment cycle where the husband was encouraged to divorce his physically ill wife because she was “out-exchange” and “not contributing” so that he could then be on staff.   This same “out-exchange” wife made it onto Solo Nots before her health failed, and spent over 30 years of her life contributing to Scientology.  Many times at the detriment of her health.

We have recently seen attempts to break up our own family.  Local staff sent a package of “data” regarding our family to Flag in an attempt to third party us to our daughter, who was training there.  This was done with the intention to stop her from coming home for Christmas.  When that failed an attempt was made by a local  HCO terminal to encourage our teenage daughter to abandon her family and move in with her.  All of this because we as Scientologist chose to stop violating our personal integrity and instead be there and communicate.

We asked ourselves how could intelligent and well intentioned Scientologist be forwarding lines which are clearly not based on LRH policy.  The Church is out exchange and doing harm to the very people LRH intended to help. Scientology Churches are no longer operating on the basis that their products are thoroughly audited Pcs and well trained students.  We continued to look and found example after example of the power of the Church being used to intimidate those who would dissent and stifle free communication amongst Scientologists.

While there are many more examples of the off-purpose direction our Church has taken, our intention here is not to lay out a detailed indictment of the C of S.  Suffice it to say that we arrived at our decision honestly and not in a moment of caprice.  What is true for us is as follows:

1.  David Miscavage and his following of sycophants are the most dangerous squirrel group on the planet.

2.  KSW is being ignored while standard LRH Ethics, Tech and Admin are being altered to the detriment of the Church and its parishioners.

3.  As Scientologists trying to live by the Code of Honor we can no longer in good conscience be associated with a group, which is using the immense power that is the Church of Scientology to hide their crimes while betraying the trust of its members.

4.  We as Scientologist assign the condition of Treason to David Miscavage, RTC and all who continue to follow his illegal orders.

5.  We hereby declare our Independence as Scientologists who cherish personal integrity, and have the courage to observe what we have observed in the face of attacks from a rogue Church.

6.  Let it be known here and now that we are proud to stand in the presence of those who went before us and paid a far higher price in order to stand up for LRH.


Dr. Brad and Natalie Hagemo
Contact: mnnat@aol.com

6 responses to “Dr. Brad and Natalie Hagemo – Twin Cities Independents

  1. #

    Linda // January 2, 2010 at 12:42 am | Reply

    Awesome! Having originally started my Scn path in TC, 1975, I’m glad to hear of Independents rising to be counted in MN – well-come!


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 1:40 am | Reply

    You betcha Linda. There are many more like us. We hope they step forward.


    Thought provoking // January 2, 2010 at 1:15 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie,

    That was a very well thought out and very well communicated declaration! Your dedication to Scientology technology and those who practice it shines through overwhelmingly. It made quite an impact on me and I am certain that it will have a HUGE impact on others.

    Natalie, I fully get your dedication to kids and drugs and I am so glad that you have pushed through the opposition that you encountered. It is devastating to lose someone you care for to drugs, especially someone you love deeply. My daughter had such a long term dependency to drugs and I thought she might not make it out. Our comm line had been cut for several years and couldn’t reach her. I am happy to say that she has been off drugs for over a year and is stably improving her life and dynamics. We have been reunited for about two years and I am beyond happy that she and I now share wonderful theta moments together.

    I welcome two very BIG thetans to the Independents and I am honored to be in such noble company.


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 1:43 am | Reply

    Wow, I’m so glad your daughter is doing well. Drug abuse is a tough one. It’s hard to see glimpses of the person you love while they are being smothered by something that could have been prevented. Thanks for sharing that! Brad and I are glad to be here.

    It’s been very liberating.

    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    I am against drugs too. Just do not take my ritalin away though !

    Cat Daddy // January 4, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Just watched a Scientology Video . So Cocain is equal to Ritalin and Aseprine. Wow I am such an evil drug addict.

    RJ // January 5, 2010 at 12:29 am

    That’s what happens when you have the Narconon working for DEA and supporting their insane “War on Drugs.


    Martin Padfield – UK Indie // January 2, 2010 at 1:29 am | Reply

    Well done and welcome to the lighter side. Excellent write-up. I hope you will share the truth with many others in your area.

    RJ // January 2, 2010 at 1:34 am | Reply

    I’d like to personally welcome both of you to the independent field!

    Interesting to see that what were once considered aberrations ,abreactions and arbitrary in the past, are now established as firm “policy” by the current regime and for some reason the Church has become the distorted reflection in a fun house mirror of what it resisted in the past. In other words the organization has completely reversed polarity right before our eyes.

    Truly amazing!

    Again, welcome!

    Alice // January 2, 2010 at 1:54 am | Reply

    Welcome Brad and Natalie!! Very well written Declaration, I loved it and hope to join the ever growing number of Independents soon.

    Eponymous // January 2, 2010 at 2:26 am | Reply

    Twin Cities + Independents = Twindependents? 🙂


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:42 am | Reply

    Love it!


    Old Auditor // January 2, 2010 at 2:33 am | Reply

    Dear Brad and Natalie, welcome to the world of Independent Scientology!

    You are among friends here and there will be many offers of help if you need any.

    You will find an enormous amount of church and LRH history out here on the net. It is well worth reading.

    I have posted an article, “Finding your way as an Independent Scientologist” http://tinyurl.com/ybaz8bv which may be of some help in orienting yourself in this completely different world where questions are allowed and communication is expected.

    Good luck and let me know if there is any way I can help you.

    Old Auditor


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:44 am | Reply

    Thank you Old Auditor and everyone else for your warm welcomes. It is great to be among friends and wonderful to really BE a Scientologist again.


    Heather G // January 2, 2010 at 2:47 am | Reply

    That’s a brilliant letter and your photo is so full of LIFE. Congratulations Brad and Natalie (and kids). I hope your daughter is safely out too.

    P. Henry // January 2, 2010 at 3:15 am | Reply

    Welcome Brad and Natalie! Great write-up. The epitome of rationality. Undoubtedly your coming forward and declaring your independence will help to strengthen the resolve of others to move off their Q&A and do the same.

    I must say that, for me, there still continues to be a feeling of surreality in regards to waking up to what has happened and what is happening with my religion and my former church. It is something that I never saw coming.

    It’s ironic that in looking for answers I came to find Scientology and by applying the tech I became more free and alive than I had been in a long while. But in finding the answers that I sought, I committed a “mistake” – I stopped looking. And the instant I stopped looking, I began to firmly reattach the shackles of slavery.

    I have for many years ascerted the truth that there is no such thing as a “mistake”. Mistake is a word that describes the interim between not having something go the way you wanted or expected it to go and that point where you learn from the action. In other words, mistake is another way to say, “learning curve.” The shackles are coming off again!

    Brad and Natalie, your declaration was inspirational! Thank you.

    With all the alarms going off all over the place and finally getting shook into a state of wakefulness, I was incited to begin telling my story (we all have one). Here’s the beginning:



    Jim Logan // January 2, 2010 at 4:32 am | Reply

    P Henry,
    Your post on the above link is stupendous! Man, are we lucky to have not just T Paine, but P Henry. I’m certainly honored to be in such company. Now, with Brad and Natalie too. So much for this body being able to express this level of pure joy!

    P. Henry // January 2, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Much thanks Jim for that ack. Also, thanks for reading the first of what will be a growing aggregation of many stories.

    As for being “honored to be in such company”, the feeling is most certainly MUTUAL!

    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 3:38 pm | Reply

    Thanks P. Henry, we are reading your story now.

    P. Henry // January 2, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Thanks for reading my story Natalie. I don’t know if you looked around the site or not but if you looked in the forum you would have found that I took the liberty of importing yours and Brad’s declaration into a category for such there.


    Jim Logan // January 2, 2010 at 4:04 am | Reply

    Brad, Natalie, and family,
    Well done. The condition must be assigned and you’ve done it clearly.

    A win I’ve had recently with LRH technology. A close friend, a non-Scientologist that I’ve known for over a decade, had a niece that was swamped by drugs. He knew that I was a Scientologist and I’ve talked to him about the present state of the Church and the Who, David Miscavige. His niece was in dire straights and he asked me about the Narconon program. I told him that to my knowledge, DM has not messed with the LRH tech on that and that the program was the best one I knew. This was enough for him, and he recommended it to her. She is now off drugs and holding her own so far.

    Your assignment of the right condition to DM and RTC and those who fail to assign the Treason that is clearly manifest, is a perfect application of the policy and facts of that policy: one gets the condition he fails to assign. That is standard Scientology ethics tech and more will win, like my friend’s niece, so thank you sincerely for your integrity.

    Jan 1, 2010, the first day of a great new year.


    RJ // January 2, 2010 at 4:33 am | Reply


    I don’t think Davy really has the balls to mess to much with the Narconon Program as many of the execs are former HAs and might not take kindly to the little guys suggestions.

    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 8:57 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie Hagemo pretty much sum it up and especially this rings thrue to me. There is a big Shizm !

    “We wish to make it clear that we still support LRH, his goals and his legacy of the Tech. We also want to acknowledge a clear distinction between the staff and public of our Churches and Missions still struggling to maintain a semblance of LRH‘s church, versus those who blindly follow the dysfunctional executive strata of C of S International headed by David Miscavage.”

    Continuing regarding Children. Their daughter(bless her heart) was a teen. I do NOT see them as tiny grown ups. Children are vulnarable and need their parents and/or family or anyone who takes up the parantal role to protect them and see them florish into a responsable and stable adult.

    “We have recently seen attempts to break up our own family. Local staff sent a package of “data” regarding our family to Flag in an attempt to third party us to our daughter, who was training there. This was done with the intention to stop her from coming home for Christmas. When that failed an attempt was made by a local HCO terminal to encourage our teenage daughter to abandon her family and move in with her. All of this because we as Scientologist chose to stop violating our personal integrity and instead be there and communicate.”

    So I will disagree with LRH on the subject that children are little grown ups . I acknowledge the research done up to this day and age on the developement of the brain in the sense it WILL develope up to the age of 25.

    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Thanks Cat. What was done with my daughter was done after I made very clear what I would do if that line was crossed. Now certain terminals are having to deal with a very pissed off mama bear.

    Speaking of, I once took bear pepper spray in the face and survived that, so not much slows me down, especially when it comes to my kids. Hmm I should write about that mace incident on my blog, I had almost forgotten about that.

    Scientologist senior // January 2, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Cat Daddy, having studied just about everything that LRH wrote about kids, I can tell that he didn’t mean at all to leave kids without the best of guidance, care and help.

    What he meant is that a kid has rights too! It should NOT be treated as PROPERTY of parents but with RESPECT and LOVE because the kid is a thetan too!

    It does not mean that you allow the kid to come away with anything or that you spoil it to death but that people RESPECT A THETAN WHO HAS A KID BODY and love it.

    If a kid loves a certain toy, don’t throw it away just you think it is ugly. If a kid does not like the hairdo and clothes that you find adorable, don’t force it to look like this. If a kid says it wants to become an artist, do not force it to become a bookkeeper! But if a kid wants to lit a fire in the living room with the sofa pillows, you step in and explain the consequences until it understands.

    If DM’s version of Scientology interprets it differently, then he is to blame.

    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    No Scientoligist Senior. My 2 year old nephew likes dolls. I am tottaly behind that. He likes dolls.

    I am refering to the adults in “little meat bodies”comment of LRH.

    Alsoo WHY the hell is a kid honoured with 1 hour a week contact with his parent(s) (Sea ORG)

    I am very critical when it comes ro kids. I am with UNICEF

    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    I will go along with the if you acknowledge that the brain needs to develope.

    Thought provoking // January 2, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    LRH was a ferocious advocate for children. He would never have supported DM’s corruption of the family unit. In fact, I’m certain he would have had his head over it.

    He wrote quite a bit about them. The treatment of children, how to raise them and how to educate them. There is the Teacher’s Hat and several key articles in the R and D vols. to start with. He loved and respected them and welcomed them.

    DM has completely wiped out this aspect of Sea Org life. If LRH didn’t want them to have kids, he wouldn’t have written so much about them.

    Cat Daddy // January 3, 2010 at 12:12 am

    You are not getting away with that so easily thought Provoking. Geuss what Flag Orders happened.

    Scientologist Senior // January 3, 2010 at 12:44 am

    I hear ya, Cat Daddy. Glad you are with UNICEF. Kids need advocates.

    One thing helped me tremendously to great wins in Scientology. I throw the stuff out that sound out of character for LRH. We all know that there were and are people under DM and unfortunately also before (Guardian Office etc.) who re-wrote policies, bulletins, books, you name it.

    When I get a fishy piece of data allegedly by LRH, I look at it and ask myself: does that fit to the character of that great bright man? If it does not, my OT abilities are telling me that somebody who wants to destroy SCN put his 2 cents in and added shit to our great technology.

    The little meat body thing sounds rather like something DM or the likes would say but not LRH.

    Thought Provoking said it very clearly, LRH NEVER would have allowed the destruction of families. He’d never would approve of DM’s abortions and separations. LRH would be disgusted by that.

    veritas // January 3, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Natalie and Brad,

    You’re a beautiful family! Thank you for sharing your courage and insight.

    “A culture will go by the boards if its basic building block, the family, is removed as a valid building block. So one can be fairly sure that he who destroys marriage destroys the civilization.” – L. Ron Hubbard

    What part of that does Co$ Mestology not get?!

    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 4:04 pm | Reply

    I salute you Mama Bear. They acted unethical and maybe even unlawfull. They acted like predetors.

    I feel like you can take on an Army Mama bear ! I these cases you certainly need to be CLEAR in the sense of keep your hands of my children !

    You took mace. WOW you big protest canon you !. I wish we could bust Cadet Org together right now and free all the children.

    Peace. Kitty Pappy

    LO // January 3, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Mama Bear,

    Poor guys that have challenged you.

    We have raised our Kids as free beings. We never enforced any Scientology on them. Our Reference has always been Child Dianetics (you can’t buy it anymore in C.O.S) and the chapters in the old V.M.H.B (the newest edition is totally changed), Dmsmh and E.O.S. Those data helped us a lot and always we were fighting when a Scientologist, Staff, S.O. member wanted to teach us something else. We never fighted like this for our own rights in the Church, but when it was about our kids we became ferocious.
    The result of it was that our kids were the eye openers about C.O.S. Many times we heard from them something like “Why do you let yourself be treated like this by the church when you teached us something different, you don’t apply what you have teached us”. Many times we had to agree and looked like fools.
    Once we made a Survey odf Scientologist parents to find out what they know about Lrh Tech for kids. The results were schocking. 90 % of them never read Child Dianetics or the chapters in V.M.H.B.. The main data they were using was that a kid is a thetan and is responsible for the condition he is in and were using the Tech as it was being applied to them as adults. This is so sad.
    I hope that in the future there will be once a checksheet for parents, with Lrh Tech and lots of drills and wordclearing.
    Children are our future and we have to care about them.
    Miscavige in his delusions propably is still wanting to recieve the acks he never got from his parents. “Look daddy how good I am ! Well done Son !”

    Have a good day !

    Cat Daddy // January 3, 2010 at 12:29 am | Reply

    Thought Provoking !



    Alex // January 2, 2010 at 4:11 am | Reply

    Very well done on the easy to undestand declaration of independence!

    I have actually known Natalie for years and wanted to tell her that I support her 100% in her actions.

    I look forward to the day that I totally handle my connections with this Rogue Church as well.

    With Respect,


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:48 am | Reply

    Thanks Alex. Now I’m racking my brain to figure out which Alex. Can you email me mnnat@aol.com so we can solve the mystery?


    Freetothink // January 2, 2010 at 4:36 am | Reply

    Wow! What a great way to start the year! I know Natalie & she’s awesome! Natalie with all the great work you have done over the years I’m sure you have a large address book. I hope you were able to send this to your comm lines all over the world. We both know some people that greatly need our help in seeing what’s really happening to our Church. I tried to communicate to them about it but, although I think I impinged somewhat, my message was rejected. I think hearing it from you would impinge even more for them. I know for sure that the friends I’m thinking of are in your address book & you are definitely an OL in their mind. Sorry for creating such a mystery. I’m Freetothink but not quite Freetospeak yet 🙂 . Thanks for your courage & integrity.


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:55 am | Reply

    Freetothink I have the dangerous combination of having a large address book and a big mouth. You should email me to make sure we are have the same people in mind. It is hard for some to confront what is really going on in the Church, hearing it from more than one source does help.

    Most Scientologist I know are good people who will realize the truth sooner or later. I think for each of us we reach that point at different speeds and through different experiences. I’d love to hear from you.


    winsmexico // January 2, 2010 at 4:46 am | Reply

    What a way to start this year!

    Brad and Natalie. Your son must be very, VERY, proud of you. I can´t imagine the emotion he will have when he grow up and realize his parents were true warriors for liberty.

    Any one that comes out of the shadows bring to this group a brilliant light that lets the truth be seen much more and from a fharter distance. Gratitude from the inner core of my heart to you two. Each Independent makes me stronger.

    I write yesterday about joining the red thin line.

    It seems that this year this line is going to be a a vey fat one!

    It´s a fact that we are in a pacific war and we are gaining ground.
    A war very different than all others, one that is fought with facts and communication, with participation.
    With eyes and arms wide open.

    As any war has periods of fear and pain; but as in a session, one walks the walk and ends aware and awake.
    One needs to walk the walk.

    Have no fear.
    You don´t need to be a star to make a change.
    Start this year loosing the shadows of supression. The supression of your own light.
    Let it shine.
    Let be known that we are for justice, for peace, and for wellbeing.
    We are free, we don´t need permission ´cause we are responsible and good.

    I have win much more as a whole in the past 3 months that in the previous 3 years combined. I hope I can share soon my new history with you all.
    I loose a round but I don´t loose the fight.
    Don´t; don´t be afraid.

    I let all of you with a Marianne Williamson quote:

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
    Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
    It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
    We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?
    Actually, who are you not to be?
    You are a child of God.
    Your playing small doesn’t serve the world.
    There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so
    that other people won’t feel insecure around you.
    We are all meant to shine, as children do.
    We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
    It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone.
    And as we let our own light shine,
    we unconsciously give other
    people permission to do the same.
    As we are liberated from our own fear,
    our presence automatically liberates others.”


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:57 am | Reply

    Beautifully stated and great quote, thank you!

    Lise // January 2, 2010 at 5:03 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie,

    I jumped up and down in sheer excitement when I saw your declaration of Independance.

    Thank you for starting New Year with a big theta fireworks display

    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Thanks Lise, we enjoyed your declaration also.

    P. Henry // January 2, 2010 at 7:55 pm | Reply

    winsmexico, that is a wonderful quote from Marianne Williamson. Thank you for that.


    Haydn James // January 2, 2010 at 5:08 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie,

    My wife and I read your announcement together. It had great impact.

    The ease with which you reduce Scientology’s problems to their simplicities speaks volumes of your confront, not to mention your immense courage and the dignity with which you grace the page.

    A truly inspiring announcement.

    We thank you.


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 6:18 am | Reply

    Hi Hadyn. I don’t know if you recall but I was a steward in PBC when you were the CO. My name was Natalie LaFreniere then, I was married to Dan at the time. I was only in the S.O. for a few years and I think the only person to join the S.O. wanting to work in the dining room, LOL.
    As a teenager I loved the randomity of it all, plus i loved to eat, a match made in heaven at the time.

    Thank you so much for your kind words. I was amazed and thankful to see your declaration, also inspired by how you kept your family together. For me that has been my main objective as we move forward.

    Haydn James // January 2, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Wow Natalie, great to see you.

    I immediately recognized you in the posted photo but assumed our paths had simply crossed at a big time event, org or you’d been featured in some mag at one time or another. But I shouldn’t have needed your mention of PBC to remind me because, now that I recall, your humour and good spirits were infectious even back then!

    All the very best from the James Gang to you and your wonderful family.


    Joe Howard // January 2, 2010 at 7:12 am | Reply

    What a fabulous thing to see on this first day of the new year.
    Welcome, Indies! I guarantee that others are now thinking, “Damn, I’ve got to do what Brad and Natalie did.” Thank you for putting that thought in others’ heads!


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 3:48 pm | Reply

    Thanks Joe. In communication with our daughter we shared your story, which helped to open her eyes.

    There are many simmering pots out here just waiting to boil over. The Church of Mestology is dong a great job of turning up the heat. I didn’t regain my self-determinism on the OT levels just to then become someone else’s slave.

    Mickey // January 2, 2010 at 10:07 pm


    “I didn’t regain my self-determinism on the OT levels just to then become someone else’s slave.”

    This is THE summation of what’s going on within this organization. How can you find and practice freedom within a slavish demanding environment that organizations often morph into?

    Again Natalie, your simple statement cuts right to the bottom line of the situation.


    NOTSaware // January 2, 2010 at 7:31 am | Reply

    Dear Brad and Nathalie, well done on your announcement. I’ve also mailed you separatedly a message from my personal address in Italy. ML Ignazio.

    TRUTH // January 2, 2010 at 7:45 am | Reply

    Brad & Natalie!

    You made the start of 2010 the most inspiring and theta year for all Independent Scientologists with your declaration. Thank you!

    Thank you for your continual courage and dedication. You are setting an awesome example for the rest of us to follow.

    Thank you Marty for creating a free and loving space for all of us to communicate.

    This year (2010), Justice will be fully applied to DM and he will be completely removed from his post and behind bars (jailed), and we will have freedom for all the Sea org members.

    What a great day that would be!

    Cheers! 🙂

    Theo Sismanides // January 2, 2010 at 9:20 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie,

    Thank you so much for standing up and speaking up!

    Thank you for joining the ranks of Independents where I see reasoning and intention to take full responsibility for Scientology. Your decision IS correct and ethical.

    I am in Greece, have been to Twin Cities org and the city as an ASHO Day staff member and I am so happy that my 4th Dynamic is coming back to place through this site and the Independents Group.

    You add more power with your write up to the A-R-C of this group, a group of true Scientologists who have fought a long time for Understanding(s) within or without the church.

    LRH says in Org Board and Livingness, it’s not just one Understanding we are looking for. It’s UnderstandingS.

    So, each day we come to NEW Understanding(S) and our ARC increases.

    What we are attempting here is to get Scientologists make these Understanding(s) about Miscavige and the way the church goes.

    Understanding is Dept 5 of the Org Board, Division 2, after Dept 4 which is Orientation, then it’s Understandings (Dept 5) and then there is Englightment (Dept 6) (Dept 4,5 and 6 are the whole of division 2)and then (I think) it’s Energy (Dept 7) (starting Div 3), which we are moving into.

    What YOU DO now with your declaration is HELPING SCIENTOLOGISTS come up to Understandings so they can be ENLIGHTENED on what has been going on and what goes on in our church.

    We are at this point of the cycle and this blog has and is contributing TREMENDOUSLY on that…. (ha ha) statistic (sorry guys, I was so happy to open up my computer this morning, open Marty’s site and there come 2 new Independents, a, I said Marty did it again, there is 2 more, ha ha).

    Sorry, I don’t count you as statistics of course, you can understand this. I am not a nerd or a freak with statistics. But I am not going to be also oblivious to admin tech and how much good it has done to me to be able to put up with this situation.

    The DATA SERIES alone helped me make the Understanding(S) I needed about Miscavige. Admin Tech, important though sometimes or most of the times we tend to neglect it.

    So we are not statistics freaks here, I am just saying that this Universe is based on numbers as LRH said, on raw data and raw statistics which are true, honest successful actions leading to a larger body of something from where action can be taken, increasing ARC.

    And your letter is Theta, full of ARC and reasoning. I see two parents, two people, two humans above the homo sapiens band. I see here Homo Novis fighting a good war with Understandings not with libels and lies.

    We are Re-Uniting and moving faster to the Englightment Era/Dept (sorry, my org board thing again ha ha).

    And you know which post is in Enlightment? It’s the Regges! Ha ha, Those who in the church (but a few exceptions) cannot enlighten anyone a bit but just want your money.

    We enlighten the hell out of our “public” not even taking money, we are bringing them back to focus and true Scientology and the whole church is our Div 6, Recruitment pool, you name it.

    We will have a ball in 2010 for the sake of the planet.

    Natalie your work with children and taking them off drugs is such an OT activity!!

    Nothing can stop a thetan ONCE he’s started! Not even a church….

    We are starting… and as someone very correctly said: the sleeping Giant, the OTs, is waking up!

    Thank you Brad, thank you Natalie!


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 3:54 pm | Reply

    Thanks Theo. You are very right about enightment. There is nothing wrong with being a “freak about statistics” as you put it. I’m a believer in flying your freak flag high, whatever it may be. You made some great points and we appreciate it.


    LO // January 2, 2010 at 10:43 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie

    What a beautiful declaration of independence. It lights my day.
    Thank you for your courage !
    My wife finally decided to grab her E-meter and audit our kids and doesn’t care anymore if C.O.S would agree with it or if she first would have to retrain or do that course first etc….She just will audit.
    She was able to liberate her mind about all the abitraries if she is aloud to audit or not.
    If there wouldn’t be any independents she would still be in a slavish condition towards the C.O.S.


    Your essay about the endless uncertainties about clear was brilliant and is a major why.
    How about an analysis of “Why trained auditors do not audit ?” This is a major sit.

    Have a good day !


    martyrathbun09 // January 2, 2010 at 2:57 pm | Reply

    LO, Thanks. Good suggestion. It is now on the to do list.

    LO // January 2, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Great ! I can’t await to read it !
    There must 100000ds of inactive auditors that have been produced since 1950 !

    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 3:57 pm | Reply

    Lo funny you should mention that about your wife, Brad and I have found ourselves sharing Scientology with more people since we made the decision to leave the church. We have friends reading LRH books now, it’s amazing.

    It is so awesome to just share LRH, to be able to talk about wins and share references etc. Many of our friends not in Scientology know a lot about what is happening with the church because of the media, but because they know who we are, they have been willing to separate out Scientology from the church.

    LO // January 2, 2010 at 4:59 pm


    My wife just looked at your picture. She meant you 3 are very uptone. It helped her a lot; she is still in a spin about the whole matter and sorting it out. You declaration was of great help.
    We have the same experience. As soon as we tell people that we are Scientologist, they want to know about it, put the whole entheta crap away and are demanding services. So we stopped to tell people what we are as we didn’t know where to route them to.
    This after we brought about 10 uptone people onlines and all left with arcxs and we had to excuse ourselves for routing them into the org and had to separate ourselves from the org somehow. Can you imagine that; you bring 4 people into the Org and you had called many times for to be sure that the auditors will be ready , and you were assured that everything is ready for them to go into session and you arrive with your selectees and there is no auditor and the staffs are overwhelmed of so much traffic you brought them. Or you bring 5 people at once to start on their div6 service and there is no registrar in the Org ! We had some aquaintances that were little bit upset we didn’t take them on course too. But at the end we were so happy we didn’t. Our solution was to stop to tell we are Scientologists, as soon one tells them, they want to know and are interested.
    Yeah, we are sorting it out and I hope that soon we will be able to declare ourselves independent.
    We are in Europe and as history shows Europe always takes the good ideas of America with a Commlag.
    I hope your daughter is again in comm. with you.

    P. Henry // January 2, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Natalie, you mentioned a profound point, “…because they know who we are, they have been willing to separate out Scientology from the church.”

    In my many years as a Scientologist I have never been one to wear my religion on my sleeve. I have not felt obligated to convert others into Church of Scientology parishioners. I have, though, always wanted to establish myself as a positive point of referrence to Scientology.

    With so much negativity being out and about regarding Scn and LRH, I wanted to be a counter-point to those negative views. Thereby, the person who had met me would, in viewing the subject, have a conflict of stories (a plus on one side and a minus on the other). As the minus would usually come from the media or some heresay it would tend to carry less weight as the positive. The positive being a personal experience with someone who was a Scientologist.

    I find that it is very easy to be genuinely interested in another person’s philosophy (even if they themselves don’t consider it a philosophy). And, I have found that people, in general. like to talk about their lives and beliefs. And as they say things and you manage the conversation with half-acks and acks, you can also find many opportunities to insert, what I call, “wedges of reason” that validates their rightness. Most often (not always) there is a point in the comm where I can say something like:

    “You know, I have read and studied a lot of material written by this guy named, L. Ron Hubbard. You may have heard of him. Well, Hubbard coined this word, Scientology. It means knowing how to know or a study of wisdom. And for me, that word Scientology, describes what I’ve been doing my entire life. I have been in search of wanting to once again come into possession of all that I know and know that I know it. Until I had come across this word, scientology, I foud it difficult to describe to others what I was attempting to do. Now, though, I can say that I am a Scientologist. I am one who studies wisdom and I am on a path to find out all that I know.” (something like that)

    And, I have found, that people are very agreeable to this notion of “knowing what you know.”

    Thanks much Natalie for your unintentional prompt that got my fingers darting over the keyboard. This is one of the elements of Marty’s blog that I find so rewarding – there is so much spontaneity here. It’s tremendously educational. Indeed, it’s one of my favorite new online course rooms.

    Jim Logan // January 2, 2010 at 8:50 pm | Reply

    Well done on just grabbing a meter and auditing! I read your comment below about routing others to the org when they’ve expressed interest and then having them mis-handled to a resulting ARCX and the resulting in you guys not wanting to tell others you are Scientologists.

    I’ve a suggestion, something that avoids the issue of mis-handled in the org (of course, sometime soon I’m calculating the org will get back on track, but in the interim) why not do what they do in the SO, when twinning on the RPF, that is, Read it, Drill it, DO it. RDD.

    Take some of these new people and yourselves, crack open Self Analysis and give them a real session. You can do the stuff in Handbook for Preclears too. There is also the Intro Auditing and Assists pack from way back when that you can use.

    The point you’ve made is that you DO NOT NEED THE LICENSE OF RTC or anyone else for that matter to USE the drills and processes. Aside from philosophical facts that you don’t need someone’s license to survive, drills and processes can’t be copyrighted and today, these are in the public domain. No small thanks to all those donations to libraries!

    In other words, you have every right legally and every right technically to read, drill and do Scientology. If you run into something you aren’t sure about, there are lots of Class VI’s, VIII’s and a couple of Class XII’s now, ready and willing to help sort out whatever it is. I can tell you how to find them if you have any trouble.

    Cat Daddy // January 3, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Get rid of structures. Even Jezus does not believe in MEST

    Jim Logan // January 3, 2010 at 5:54 am

    But Jesus didn’t go it alone either. How about a lightness of organization, that seems plausible. (There are hard won principles of group action too, I won’t be chucking them.)

    LO // January 3, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Wow ! Jim

    You are totally right. I’d this idea several times and propably this will be the solution at the end.
    In the moment I’m still sorting out the whole matter to come to a clear decision. You know there are lots of comm-lines involved and people and kids that would be hurt. You get it ?
    I’ll take your offer an will write to you personally in some days.


    Dagny // January 2, 2010 at 1:38 pm | Reply

    “We did see endless demands for time and money, overwhelmed staff, and a growing ARC broken field.”

    Add to this financially broken public and this pretty much sums up the atmosphere in my area as well.

    Thank you for taking your stand!

    Terry Pavek // January 2, 2010 at 1:39 pm | Reply

    Hello Natalie and Brad,

    Good move you guys. I’ve been trying to convince Karla since 2005 that something had gone terribly wrong with the “church”. You know my number…you’ve got a friend in me.

    Terry Pavek


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:00 pm | Reply

    Well as I live and breathe, hello there Terry Pavek. Email me your email address if you would, mnnat@aol.com Karla knows there is something smelly going on, feel free to share our declaration with her.

    Thank you for your support!


    Cowboy Poet // January 2, 2010 at 1:59 pm | Reply

    Ride the White Horse

    Since the beginning of time, all through the ages
    Man has sought Truth since before written pages.
    He granted power to those who could show
    Nothing of proof of a Hell down below.

    He bought into faith just because it was spoken
    He gave of his life as if it was token.
    A betrayal o’ time soon forgotten
    Promises lost, hopes fouled and rotten.

    As time came along, a belief was rekindled
    But required a mind, sole purposed and singled.
    And so it was written in all parts of study
    Transgressions against it were made swift and bloody.

    But just as it saved and kept Truth intact
    It was used agsint scholars in a full fledged attack.
    To question the change became to question the word
    Treated with scorn and told thought absurd.

    So just as what ahppened in times before
    Truth was now used to settle a score.
    That which was intended to protect
    Was now used to shield those who infect.

    This is not about me and I don’t write in vain
    But for my children who follow, that they feel no pain.
    So when did it happen, that we fell apart
    Benevolence and kindness sealed off from our hearts?

    It happend when we threw away our ideals
    Justice was lost, no chance for appeal.
    It happened when we took the word of another
    And we lost our ability to move mountains asunder.

    At this point in time, there’s still much to lose.
    So few sages left, so few tools to use.
    Four inch armor we know Truth can pierce
    Stripping away lies, the consequences fierce.

    But it will take many and time’s not a friend
    No spoils amongst us, only assistance to lend.
    Incumbent upon us to stop this black force
    I rally my fellows, we must ride the white horse!


    martyrathbun09 // January 2, 2010 at 2:54 pm | Reply

    Cowboy, Thanks again partner!

    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 4:01 pm | Reply

    Wow, that is beautiful!


    Mosey // January 2, 2010 at 4:55 pm | Reply

    Welcome Brad and Natalie to our ever expanding family of Independents!
    Love Mosey


    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 10:19 pm | Reply

    Thank you so much!


    Underground For Now // January 2, 2010 at 5:02 pm | Reply

    A huge high 5 to Brad and Natalie.

    No better way to start a New Year than welcoming a new member to the, “INDEPENDENT” community.

    Your write up really communicates what needs to be communicated.

    The reply from LO, where he writes,”If there wouldn’t be any independents she would still be in a slavish condition towards the C.O.S.”, made my day.

    My number one postulate for going public was to help others discover the truth about COS and by doing so, many Sea Org & church members would be helped and in return they could help others achieve ever lasting personal integrity.

    IMHO no being can be an OT without personal integrity.

    Nice to know my postulates are coming true in a short period of time.

    Brad & Natalie you are now a member of Marty’s wall of “INDEPENDENTS” and a mighty fine group it is.


    Jack Airey
    Clearwater Independent

    Revenimus // January 2, 2010 at 5:09 pm | Reply

    I had a moment of clarity (if I could only have more of these… Haha) upon reading Brad and Natalie’s brilliantly written declarations. I had a revelation, a cognition.
    It may not give you goosebumps as it did me, perhaps most of you have already come to this conclusion and I’m a little slow. Either way I don’t care and here it is:
    I am a student of KSW and an ethics specialist. Scientology is a salvation for mankind. The tech works. It is the answer. Which simply makes those who pervert it to black scientology to enslave minds bigger villains than the greatest of villains in history. Stopping Scientology is the greatest crime known to mankind.
    Marty and the independent movement therefore face THE Greatest evil on earth. All of you who have announced yourselves are heroes, your efforts are absolutely heroic! Marty has a good plan and I agree with his strategy – but that’s what’s on the line. My postulate for 2010 is that through peaceful resistance and dissent may we bring Scientology back. This moment in time is a critical moment in history. Its great to know and to have all the certainty and conviction in the world that we stand on the right side with the white hats and that we stand for good in a fight against evil.
    if it sounds a bit melodramatic, read the KSW series, and then raise your confront of evil.
    Anyway, I just wanted to share the “revelation” I had this morning thanks to a couple from Minnesota – by the way I know you from PBC Natalie!!


    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 7:46 pm | Reply

    It takes time. Can you match Anonymous resiliance and than some? *wink* I am suposed to get 50 dollars from the Psychs to protest. lol

    Natalie // January 2, 2010 at 10:21 pm | Reply

    What a great cognition, very well put. Awesome that we know each other from the PBC days. Would love to hear from you on email. mnnat@aol.com


    crashing upwards // January 2, 2010 at 5:29 pm | Reply

    Dear Brad and Natalie. Congratulations on being able to see it for what it is and rise above it. Your mention of LRH datum that we get the condition we fail to assign leaped off the page at me like few others have since I have been reading the blog. That is the most appropriate and life saving statement and strategy I have seen here for declaring ones Independence. Its a matter a personal survival as a Scientologist and even as a free thinking being to call it for what it is and distance oneself from it.
    It exists and rises up from a well of inner goodness and sanity which you obviously have and demonstrate.
    But none the less, it still not an easy step to take as its always safest to do nothing and not communicate. So you have fortitude, bravery, and dedication to go along with your goodness and insight. Best wishes and may you all have a great 2010. “The greatest particle of all is admiration”

    Cat Daddy // January 2, 2010 at 7:59 pm | Reply

    I am going to say what is on everybody’s lips: Wow that doctor got a high class gal.


    Jim Logan // January 2, 2010 at 11:10 pm | Reply

    There’s a saying from Science of Survival and the Theta-MEST theory expounded there; theta attracts theta.

    Theta also puts orderly arrangement into MEST. Think about the most beautiful people you know. They are full of life, n’est pas? That life creates any beauty there is. What these beings can do with raw materials is amazing but what gets across is the wavelength of aesthetics and that is way up there. Heck, it even makes ‘meat bodies’ look pretty good (wink). Imagine dat, Mr. Cat.

    Cat Daddy // January 3, 2010 at 12:15 am

    Mr. Cat admires. But the beauty of one loving you for who you are surpasses.

    That said. Wow she is a beautifull woman.

    Cat Daddy // January 3, 2010 at 12:18 am

    My aunt is in a wheelchair. She is full of life too.

    Cat Daddy // January 3, 2010 at 12:22 am

    I Imagine it now Jim Logan

    Jim Logan // January 3, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Well done on imagination. It’s what reality is composed of, ultimately. Splurge on it and you’ll find all sorts of beauty.


    SherryMK // January 2, 2010 at 9:56 pm | Reply

    Dear Natalie and Brad,

    What a beautifully written heart felt declaration. I congratulate you and wish your family the very best in 2010.

    Of one thing I am certain: with the two of you “out”, there will be a huge ripple effect on others. I’m looking forward to that effect!

    If you know Sherry (Tully)..and I don’t think there can be a doubt that you do, and have any info on her and her husband, I’d enjoy any news

    Sherry Katz


    Natalie // January 3, 2010 at 2:49 am | Reply

    Thanks Sherry. I do know the Sherry you speak about. I sent you a friend request on facebook. I can also email you if you would email me your address. Mine is mnnat@aol.com

    We both loved your declaration and your story in the SP Times. It took courage to do that and we are happy to know you are doing well.


    gandiguy // January 2, 2010 at 11:21 pm | Reply

    Ain’t IDing self as there are potential cut commlines.

    One big thought..LRH said that paraphrasing,…when you cut a theta comm line it explodes in your face. As the disconnection threat and the suppression of free comm originates with DM He should be expecting one whopper of a face explosion. It’s just a matter of time.

    Just a personal observation of hypocracy…Prior to joining SO the PR was OT7 will solve the planet. When actually on staff at FLAG I observed OT7s not being encouraged to audit and furthermore being blocked from that activity in a number of ways,…lack of sleep being key. If it was vital that OT7s audit why were so many staff not for one reason or another.


    bigawatts // January 3, 2010 at 12:19 am | Reply

    I know of a number of people who observed the same thing and felt the same way. It was the beginning of their awakening. They are now quietly out. But the question remains: “If it was vital that OT7s audit why were so many staff not for one reason or another.” For that matter, why aren’t those trained to audit OT VII required to continue to audit what is addressed on this level, even once they have EP’d it for themselves, if this truly would clean up the planet?

    In any case, we are glad to see the Independent network growing stronger by the day.

    gandiguy // January 3, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Just out of curiosity do you know or does anyone know how many independents are auditing OT7 in the field?


    Boyd H. // January 2, 2010 at 11:35 pm | Reply

    Natalie and Brad, your article is well thought out and easily accessible to those new to this who observe these problems in their own orgs. I think it’ll have a big effect.

    veritas // January 3, 2010 at 1:20 am | Reply


    veritas // January 3, 2010 at 1:28 am | Reply

    Cheers for Natalie and Brad


    veritas // January 3, 2010 at 1:37 am | Reply

    Thank you Marty & Mosey, and each of you who love life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    ♫*That the tech (and Love) was still there. O’er the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave.♫


    TRUTH // January 3, 2010 at 4:41 am | Reply


    You are a true example of Spirit of Play. I adore you! 🙂


    veritas // January 4, 2010 at 5:45 am | Reply

    😀 Truth, you made more fireworks in my space! Immense, sparkling bursts brighter than any colors. The videos conveyed a pretty good approximation of what I was feeling as I read these declarations and everyone’s comments.

    Thank you so much. I adore you, too. Do you know how nice it is to have someone *love* me for leaping with joy?


    Mary Jo // January 3, 2010 at 5:11 am | Reply

    Dear Brad and Natalie,
    WELCOME! It is an absolute treat and joy to have you join this movement of truth and freedom! I am sure that your message will resonate with many professionals that came through the Admin line with a desire to help many improve conditions– only to find the bait and switch phenomena that has pained so many of us… let’s continue to get the word out that “I am wrong” is the wrong item– the system as it stands is wrong! WE are right, we are alive and we obnose the scene! And we want to help and help is GOOD!

    Kirsi Ojamo // January 3, 2010 at 7:55 am | Reply

    Natalie and Brad,

    I admire your courage. Very well done indeed.

    scispy // January 3, 2010 at 11:13 am | Reply

    Even though it seems like you have lost something, you are going to find so much love, and so many who care, now that you are out. I commend your bravery in calling out David as a traitor. No better label could be used. 🙂 much love and peace to you!

    Christie // January 3, 2010 at 2:48 pm | Reply

    I am so happy to have you on our team! Well done and thank you for standing up. 🙂

    Twin Cities Scn // January 4, 2010 at 2:36 am | Reply

    Brad & Natalie,
    I am also a local Twin Cities Scientologist and was thrilled to see your letter! We have all experienced outpoints here and at Flag and other AO’s and looking back on it, I can’t believe we actually “put up” with what we did for so long. The bait and switch recruitment and regging/ethics cycles, along with phone and email harassment have just pushed me too far. At first, I was actually scared to do a search for others on the internet (THAT’S an outpoint right there).
    I stepped back and was finally able to see what was really going on vs. what we were TOLD was going on.
    Once I was able to apply “look, don’t listen” for myself, I saw that almost everything is operating on the basis of verbal tech.
    You will find out now who your REAL friends are, and I would love to be one of them. (I will be emailing you shortly).

    Look for more of us to be coming out soon.


    Natalie // January 4, 2010 at 7:16 pm | Reply

    Thanks Twin Cities. I know there are many, an almost shocking amount of Scientologist and OTs here who know what is really going on within the church and are in disagreement with it.

    The local org is doing a great job of alienating more and more each day with demands for money and crazy recruitment cycles.


    SK // January 4, 2010 at 3:17 am | Reply

    Brad and Natalie, I salute you for standing up for what you believe is right. This takes courage. And a very big WELCOME!
    Shannon Kimoto

    Lotus Miyamoto // January 4, 2010 at 6:19 pm | Reply

    Good job Natalie and Brad!
    The truth is our armour.

  2. Sherry Katz:

    I may have info on Sherry Tully and her husband. Which husband are you referring to?

  3. Pingback: Auszugsweise Liste von Independent Scientologen | Independent for Life

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