Ground Zero For The Future of Scientology

According to the many insightful comments in response to this week’s posts it is clear not much was lost on you all.   Thanks for the dot connecting and succinct  sum ups and observations of the situation.

Allow me to engage in a little more dot connecting of my own.

The main purpose behind the manner in which the material rolled out – from the first Caller Times article on 3 July, to the follow up on 7 August, to the four segments of interview with Bert Leahy – was to provide the definitive Miscavige mafia repellent.   Take the links to the 3 July article, the 7 August article, and the four days of Mr. Leahy and you have a fully self-contained answer and antidote to any invasion of Miscavige’s mafia in your area.   Whether it is Lubow or any Radical Scientology private investigator, one or more OSA operatives or even a Radical Scientology lawyer – the combined links, in sequence, are the answer to them all.

David Miscavige does not investigate.

David Lubow does not investigate.

Scientology lawyers do not investigate.

OSA does not investigate.

David Miscvige only harasses in a vain effort to dominate and destroy and to wipe out the exercise of the First Amendment rights of Freedom of Speech, the Press, and of Religion.

David Lubow only harasses to chill the exercise of First Amendment rights of freedom of speech, the press, and religion.

Scientology laywers only harass – and get paid commensurate with their satisfaction of David Miscavige’s perverse intentions to dominate and destroy.

Office of Special Affairs only does a lower, more covert and illegal form of all the above at the insistance and direct orders of David Miscavige.

David Miscavige, David Lubow, Scientology PIs, Scientology lawyers, and Office of Special Affairs staff are not capable of telling the truth.  They are only capable of lying.   They have lied so often and brazenly for so long, nobody in his or her right mind believes a single bit of filth that issues from their sinister mouths. 

From here on out the links I noted above – with nothing else but that – is my answer to anyone swayed by these cretins in the slightest.  I highly recommend you use them for the same purpose. 

To lie to a major newspaper so persistently and consistently, and then continue to lie after getting busted and caught out  is a brand new straight-up-and-vertical level attained by David Miscavige.  It is the achievement of TOTAL lack of credibility.

Not only is the church’s credibility  dead, but now the credibility of its overpriced “professional” whores too is dead.

Finally, if anyone thinks the South Texas Siege (now in day 118) is merely some personal vendetta against me, think again.

This blog is coming at you from Ground Zero. 

GROUND ZERO:…2) the center or origin of rapid, intense, or violent activity or change; broadly : center.          – Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary

This is Ground Zero in the struggle to determine how Scientology will be practiced and how it will be perceived by the world at large in future generations.

The siege is only about preventing that change.

David Miscavige’s answer to the challenge is two-fold:

a)  Destroy the communication vehicle that is advocating such change and accurately informing the world about the state of Scientology, by destroying rights guaranteed by the US Bill of Rights and the UN Declaration of Human Rights and the Creed of the Church of Scientology.

b) Destroy the sane and effective practice of Scientology, by destroying rights guaranteed by the US Bill of Rights and the UN Declaration of Human Rights and the Creed of the Church of Scientology.

If you doubt my words, then let us hear it from Miscavige’s own agent’s (OT VII/OT Ambassador) mouth: (note, don’t get distracted with my words – listen carefully to Mosey’s which I talk trash over during a crucial segment):


461 responses to “Ground Zero For The Future of Scientology

  1. Wat U Say? Scientology Inc, and its minions, are attempting to prevent inspection by substituting false datums?


    Seems the ol’ man had some tech for that…lessee….
    “How does this stable datum become so fixed? It gets fixed, and more and more firmly as time goes on, by the confusion it is supposed to handle but doesn’t.

    The stable datum was adopted in lieu of inspection. The person ceased to inspect, he fell back from inspecting, he fell back from living. He put the datum there to substitute for his own observation and his own coping with life, and at that moment he started an accumulation of confusion.

    “That which is not confronted and inspected tends to persist. Thus in the absence of his own confronting mass collects. The stable datum forbids inspection. It’s an automatic solution. It’s ‘safe.’ It solves everything. He no longer has to inspect to solve, so he never anises [sic] the mass. He gets caught in the middle of the mass. And it collects more and more confusion and his ability to inspect becomes less and less. The more he isn’t confronting, the less he can confront. This becomes a dwindling spiral.

    “So the thing he has adopted to handle his environment for him is the thing which reduces his ability to handle his environment.” — LRH

    Also, Mosey. YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!

  2. “datums” should be “data”.
    “anises” should be “as-ises”

  3. martyrathbun09

    Perfect reference Tom.

  4. “He put the datum there to substitute for his own observation and his own coping with life … — LRH”

    Oh that is so true. I dare say I’ve done that myself. What a great reference; thanks Tom.

  5. “The siege is only about preventing that change.” This is clear-sighted Mr Rathbun.

  6. Mosey, you are kicking ass with the simple truth in this video. Really well done!

  7. Incredible Mosey.
    You put their ethics in, but you don’t invalidate them, you invalidate their actions. You can see he can’t have it and it shakes his universe.

  8. Beautifully handled, Mosey!

  9. Mosey, you are the best!!!! I love ya girl. I think that idiot on the golf cart had/has no idea how to be in communication. He is an angry man and has no idea why he is angry. I said it before and will say it again, for some this situation (as real as it is) with the COS is just to gruesome for these idiots to confront.They would have to look yet continue to deny, deny, deny.unbelievable. To the biggest ASS of all, DM you will go down as NOTHING . You are NOTHING.

  10. Simon Bolivar

    “He’s auditing and you go around on a golf cart. Who’s the scientologist?”
    😀 Really well stated Mosey, go girl, you rock!!

  11. martyrathbun09

    Brilliant Carol: ” He is an angry man and has no idea why he is angry”

  12. martyrathbun09

    Good observation Lucy: right per the Course Supervisor’s code.

  13. Izhar Perlman - Lisbon

    Your sane and focused responses to this suppression, oppression and idiocy, is a diamond example of how Scientology does have the right tools to handle life when applied correctly.
    Mosey and you Marty are stellar examples of courage and persistence.

  14. I read the up date .The clip was not available to assess

  15. martyrathbun09

    She can float like a butterfly and sting like a bee

  16. Simon Bolivar

    Ho no, he’s got the perfect idea, notice they changed t-shirts, they know pretty well in which trouble they have put themself to.

  17. Bravo, BRAVO, BBRRAAVVOO! Mosey and Marty.

  18. Mosey is my hero.

  19. Carol said it! Mosey, you are the best!!!!

    The OTA in this video, like most churchies only has one side of the story. It is one viewpoint, the only viewpoint. It is the viewpoint that is drilled into them. It is what they are supposed to think, say and do. It’s church wide so it must come straight from the top and they don’t dare sway from it if they want to continue in the church. Only thing it has nothing to do with them. So. it is a rote patter and actions which are repeated rotely. This guy doesn’t know enough to even have a debate or informed discussion of the issues at hand because he has no clue what is going on. He’s angry because someone told him to be angry. It is obvious to me if you just listen to him. It just makes him look stupid.

    Oh! And he says he has seen “parts of the blog”. Ya the parts he is allowed to see, out of context to make the blog look bad. This is IMO, how policy is used these days, out of context and interpreted to futher off policy and out tech actions. IMO, GAT created people who can’t think with the tech and policy anymore and who accept any out of context, interpreted alteration of LRH that comes down the line.

  20. +1 !!!
    Mosey, keep doing what you are doing! Had a smile on my face the whole time. “Yes, he’s f’ing audinting and YOU’RE driving around in a golf cart! Who’s the Scientologist now?”

    Rock… On!!!

  21. My respect to you Mosey…what a beautiful voice the one that brings tru+h forward! My main reason for leaving the CoS was people like this “OT?”, Just a bad example of what Scn should be….

  22. Go get ’em Mosey!

    “Hey Rafial, you tell your Cult leader Miscaviage that if he wants to send a message to me don’t be sendin’ no jive-ass Western Union Messenger Boy.”

    That’s what I call Being There. Funny Marty

    ML Tom

  23. TroubleShooter

    Right on! Mosey’s own progress up the Bridge and career change to help deliver the tech brought that jackalope’s effort to invalidate her to a halt! He took a stab at trying to introvert on what she knew about Scientology and her demonstration of tone 40 not only shut him up but he backed up and sat down! TOTAL CONTROL GIRL! NICE.

  24. + 100

  25. me too 🙂

  26. Marty. Ed Bryan has been relegated to the minors here in the Florida League.
    More insanity and high level PR area control destruction to be revealed when I get home from Miamimother and have a computer rather than a phone.
    You are right about the articles and videos. When Jim Lynch showed up here with two cameramen yesterday I told them to look at the blog and see Bert Leahy’s video. Later in the afternoon Lynch appeared again but now his “cameraman” was one of the SBs. Maybe they got some truth.
    th two camerame

  27. She got him. Well done Mosey! His TR’s were non existent and the last shot showed doubt written all over his face. If this is the best Corporate Scientology has to offer, well, it speaks for itself.

  28. I bet he hasn’t seen ANY of the blog, and even that statement “I’ve seen parts of the blog” is a lie.

    “Your blog is disgusting” is a lie. It’s something he’s told to say and think and he doesn’t know of what he speaks at all.

    Blind and stupid.


  30. +1
    Go Mosey, go!!!
    Love it!

  31. +1
    They’re not only done and know it; to top it off they admit it!

  32. martyrathbun09

    Interesting; hope you can manage to finish this thought, looks like your reception cut out.

  33. OMG, it happened again, Marty, you cracked me up and I spit food out of my mouth when you said: “Tell your cult leader if he wats to send a message, not to send some jive ass, western union, messanger boy!

    Even in the face of adversity, you can be so freakin’ funny!

  34. Sara Finning

    “Destroy the sane and effective practice of Scientology, by destroying rights guaranteed by the US Bill of Rights and the UN Declaration of Human Rights and the Creed of the Church of Scientology….”

    Agree, and would like to add the ECHR (European Convention of Human Rights)

  35. He is not allowed to see this blog. I’m so waiting for someone to ask the question: what’s disgusting about it? And TR 3 the question until they he admits he doesn’t know one iota. That would make beautiful video, especially if it’s filmed calmly.

  36. Christie,
    I bet you’re right!

  37. This post and video is not just a totally accurate statement of affairs, its damned inspirational. You too not only expose the insanity of the Cult of Miscavige for the world to see, you demonstrate REAL Scientology on a daily basis and have for years now, something he can’t have, on both counts.

    Inspired by your example over the last two plus years, I have begun auditing again and I know others have too. And it feels great. I may be slow on the uptake sometimes but eventually the penny does drop. And that’s my big realization. Exposing the insanity of the Cult of Miscavige and helping others, real help for those who need it, go hand in hand. We need both.

    As I said, you two are an inspiration!

  38. Tom,
    There it is. Clean as a wolf’s tooth.

    Service Computations/Facsimiles are generated by the person NOT the bank. With thorough training one is aware of the mechanics of these things and should the circumstances, the confusions of life, present themselves as he goes on in living that are the classic conditions for adopting one of these ‘solutions’ then the being can be at cause over the same old same old that hasn’t ‘served’ all these past eons.

    THAT’S what Scientology represents – a new way to play the game and move on up a little higher.

    Another thing about this ‘interlude’ in the scheme of things; Mosey points out that this whole Golf Cart Brigade thing is a giant, gargantuan, digression (a Q&A in the vernacular of Scn) from what Scientology practiced actually is.

    This is DMology. Reversed vectored to just about anything that comes along. Including golf. (Described on earlier threads on Miscavige The Cheater).

  39. “David Miscavige, David Lubow, Scientology PIs, Scientology lawyers, and Office of Special Affairs staff are not capable of telling the truth. They are only capable of lying. They have lied so often and brazenly for so long, nobody in his or her right mind believes a single bit of filth that issues from their sinister mouths.”

    Marty, this is why there are people who hesitate to trust what’s going on with you and Mike Rinder being the defacto heads of the Independent Scientology movement. I mean you guys ran that shit for so long…

  40. +1 Mosey.

    I haven’t seen an “SRA” like that in years!!! (Severe Reality Adjustment) His TRs went right out because you were speaking the truth.

  41. wonderful reference Tom! These golf cart people don’t even know the true references. They just react, react, react. This truly shows how degraded the COS has become. It is all about a made up war that they are fighting!

  42. Marty, Just listened to this a second time and loved your quote from one of my favorite films ever – Being There with Peter Sellers!!!! lol

  43. Gary Morehead a.k.a Jackson

    Mine Too!!

    Boooo Ya!!!!!

  44. Marty, that Western Union Messenger comment is classic. For anyone who didn’t catch it, here is the context from the All Time Great, the one and only Peter Sellers:
    And if I was in that golf cart, I would be looking for “Joe Frazier!”

  45. Laura,
    From the 5th ACC, lecture of 26 April 1954, GENERAL HANDLING OF A PC, as relates to the abilities gained in a thoroughly done Scn Bridge, and mayhaps OT VII in particular. ( I doubt this is one of the ‘parts’ of the blog this fella will be allowed to read though.)

    we’re trying to pick up his level of knowingness; that’s
    what we’re really trying to do. But below that level, when
    we have to do with space, energy, masses, objects and so
    forth, we are trying to get him to be willing to assume any
    viewpoint in the whole universe; trying to get him willing
    to assume any viewpoint in the universe.”

  46. Tony DePhillips

    Nice job Mosey.
    Numbnuts had no chance against you.
    Marty, I agree this is ground zero. Don’t you have enough evidence now to go after him for damages?
    Love you both!! You guys kick ass!!

  47. “The siege is only about preventing that change.”

    Ahhh yes, now we’re down to basics. DM is a NO CHANGE case. Fixed and terrified. Oddly enough, as soon as he does make that one small change, he’ll begin to get well. He’ll move in time and out of that nassy place he be.

    But there is no stopping what has occurred and what is going to continue. The work IS free and it will be so from here on out.

  48. martyrathbun09

    Edited to take out your quite rude and motivating dub-in and accusations designed clearly to drive attention from the topic at hand. My wife has faced 1,000 times what you ever faced, boy. And she ain’t sitting around motivating ten years later. When and if you ever get the courage, to confront a tiny corner of your own responsbility I’ll have you back. In the meantime, enjoy your sorrow over at ESMB.

  49. Mosey doin it rite, Good show Signôritta. Carry on.

    Caek and hugs

  50. Every day Miscavige pays top dollar and provides the material to have the insanity of himself and his cult documented for the current and future population to view.

    I doubt strongly that if Tom Cruise was getting married today that he would have Miscavige as his “best man” or even invite him to the wedding. I think Tom would rather show up with an old, dead fish tied around his neck.

    Miscavige is so stupid that if you rattle his cage just a little he will beat his head on the bars for a week and never figure out that he is hurting himself. He’ll look at the bruises, get mad and beat himself that much more.

    I’d like to thank all the OSA agents for helping to provide such great footage.

  51. Jim,
    You make me smile. 🙂

  52. Rory Medford

    NIce job Mosey, it was entertaining to see the OT8 squirrelbuster dumbfounded. The truth hurts and he knew you had him pegged for what he is- A BUMBLING IDIOT who has no idea what he is really doing.

  53. No lie can stand before thee, Oh Queen of Hearts! 🙂 – Go Mosey!!!

  54. She’s the best of the best!!!

  55. Yeah, that was awesome Mosey!!!

  56. You tell ’em Mosey!!!! Awesome!!!

  57. Jim, you are so right. The GCP’s (Golf Cart People), only have one viewpoint and it’s NOT theirs! DM is body pawning these robots but of course robots are not sentient. Their ROBOTS. Garbage In, Garbage Out!

    Some day most of these churchies will “wake up” and go “Oh Shit, time to leave!!”.

    Marty’s dots are connected. 🙂


  58. typo… “They’re ROBOTS”

  59. Laura Ann you are correct, the OTA’s only assume the viewpoint they are told to assume. It is drilled into them for sure. Freedom to look, think for yourself and act are NOT possible with this group.

  60. Now that’s what I call true communication. Bam!!!

    No Ot’s or trained auditors that are still mesmerized by the CofM has a chance against you Mosey. I noticed that in an earlier video with that lady at your door. You are not afraid to truly communicate from your heart. You are not afraid to display emotions & say how things really are. It will overcome 100% of the times a drilled in, restrained & robotic communication.

    I love you both. Marie-Joe

  61. Marty – thank you for providing all of the links and articles. If it weren’t abundantly clear already, it is now solid proof in one place concerning the Scientology organization’s criminal tactics against whistleblowers. A great service, Marty – thank you. (Also, Love You Mosey!)

  62. To quote Don Corleone from Godfather III, while addressing his hot head nephew, Vincent,” You are who you are”.

    Raphael, you are who you are: a broken down, Mestsavage engineered lackey who is not producing anything of value in society. Keep up your work as an Ingleside street creeper, in that descredited group which is paid for by your diminutive cult leader.

    Yes, keep at it, because you are about to fully attest to: OT Hate, Truth Concealed.

  63. Jimmy, and it be coming down the track gainin’ speed. Rolling Thunder (The name DM uses for his campaigns is named after the infamous Carpet Bombing campaign in Vietnam and used by DM because of the connotation of killing, mayhem and murder that DM so cherishes) is actually a freight train headed right at DM and it’s loaded with ethics/justice. And Bubba is the conductor and he’s getting ready to punch DM’s ticket.

    ML Tom

  64. Q: How many people did you get into Scientology this year?
    SQB: 8.
    Q: What are their names?
    SQB: (fumble, fumble) none of your business.
    Q: What are their names?
    SQB: (fumble) doesn’t matter, have no names.
    Q: What are their names?
    SQB: Actually, it was 3.
    Q: What are their names?
    SQB: fumble…. no answer….. fumble.
    Q: OK, that’s zero, how many OT’s did you repair this month and how many auditors did you put back in the chair?
    SQB: …..fumble…3….
    Q: Who are they?
    SQB: fumble… answer….
    Q: How many auditing hours did you make last week?
    SQB: 20.
    Q: You were all week in a golf cart, how’s that?
    SQB: fumble… no answer…How many Scientologist did you make?
    Q: At least one, standing next to me, How did you get 20 hours auditing driving in a golf cart all week?
    SQB: fumble…Q & A…. fumble…. blow…
    Q: How long are you stalled on OT VII?……You call that Scientology? If you sleep 8 hours, shave and ask me nicely, I’ll debug you for free (starting with real PTS education and real conditions).

  65. David Franchi

    My twin brother just disconnected from me saying he read Marthy’s blog and the Italian blog, I tried to ask him more information about it but he wouldn’t answer to my questions… I know he hasn’t read any and that he was drilled on what to say to me, he also stated nobody from the church was preventing him to read the blogs, when the whole deal with me was that I was summoned in front of the Dir I&R at ASHOLA to persuade me to stop reading the blogs…

  66. Who the hell are you trying to impress, John? WTF – you’d have to be dumb and blind not to grasp what’s going on. I don’t respect this type of random antagonism in the least.

  67. Jim, thanks so much for this. “The work IS free and it will be so from here on out.” You are absolutely right! This is a turning point in the history of Scientology. We, as Scientologists, are taking responsibility to FREE the work that LRH did, and make it available to the general population; despite the MONOPOLY that the Church of David Miscavige, thinks that they have. This has been my goal for eons; to make freedom available to whomever would seek it! Thank you, Marty and Mosey, Mike Rinder, Christie, and Jim Logan and John Aaron Williams, and all of the Freedom Fighters on this blog, for helping to FREE the subject of Scientology so that the peoples of earth can start on their path to personal spiritual freedom. We have reached a MILESTONE! The path truly stretches out to INFINITY!

    Catherine von Ach

  68. Right on Lucy. Don’t mess with Mosey! Wow!


  70. Tony DePhillips

  71. Yes, McSavage is effectively using other people’s body’s as cloned puppet copies of himself:

  72. Komra Moriko

    Made my day! Mosey you so totally rock!!!

  73. Certainly is an all star cast he’s assembled.

  74. Frankly, the most disgusting thing I have seen on this blog is that guys teeth. Where is his “Way to Happiness” campaign?

  75. “OT Hate, Truth Concealed.”

    Ouchy!! A good solid blow to the groin. I like a man who grins when he fights!

  76. Truly funny, but pathetically the truth of the situation!

  77. And drive it right up his backside.

  78. Ditto, totally perfect ripostes! Go Mosey!

  79. Marty as long as you are promoting Hubbards bullshit I will attack you because I know that he was evil – as long as you are promoting him for me you are evil too. It is as simple as that. Start to really say sorry to everybody you hurt directly or indirectly by using and ordering Hubbards Nazi methods and please stop to use Hubbards bullshit to devalue people who are not trusting you for very good reasons.

    Start to free yourself now!


  80. Wait … I didn’t hear the golf cart jet-setter’s answer!! I don’t think I heard a sound out of that slack jaw hanging there. Reminded me of a big-mouth bass.

    Mosey,you reminded me of how TR 1 is done, crisp, clear, and natural as rain! Plenty good enough. The guy really heard you.

  81. Marty and Mike,

    Sounds like John has FAILED to investigate and verify the stats of DMology and the Independent Scientologists. There’s not a soul on this planet that has not created a bad effect. What counts is that you take responsibility as soon as you are “aware”. As far as I’m concerned, Marty and Mike have done MORE GOOD for all of us then ALL of the Cof$/OSA/RTC/DMology has EVER or WILL do for mankind. Observe the created effects and affirmations of truth and you will someday (hopefully soon) “awaken”.


  82. martyrathbun09

    Markus, the first step in the evolution from basically good into a Suppressive Person is an individual believing that another can be evil. Not that the person has done evil. But that the person IS evil. If you’d settle down for a moment and watch Mosey in the video you might learn something from it.

  83. These guys are running around with DM’s interpretation of KSW stuck straight up and vertical right in their keisters.

  84. martyrathbun09

    Funny how some of these cats rail about C of M, and yet continue to do what in essence makes the institution so suppressive; to wit, continue to make someone guilty for this ACKNOWLEDGED overts.

  85. “Its disgusting” Well yes it is, I agree.

    Its disgusting that;

    An OT 8 has no TR-0, NO composure on camera and is obviously LOW TONED.
    This group rides around in golf carts and little boats making asses out of themselves in front of the world.
    They blindly dismiss the very first things they learned in Scientology
    Maintain friendly relations
    Code of Honor
    Code of a Scientologists

    That they willfully provide a tremendously negative image of Scientology for the worlds to see.

    They ignore the writtings of LRH even when confronted with them.
    They Ser Fac loudly and repeatedly on camera
    They willing cast aside their integrity to engage in ludicrous behaviour
    That they are all DOWN TONE- AND ON CAMERA.
    They are willing to repeat this as many times as necessary to satisfy the orders of a very sick man.
    They fail to see the outpoints of their own actions (forgiven)
    They fail to see the outpoints of the actions of thier fellows (stupidity or PTSness)
    They interupt auditing
    They interfere with the religous practices of another outside of THEIR religion.
    They create a bad P/R image to the point of the local gov’t passing an ordinance against their actions.

    YES, it is very disgusting, I couldn’t agree more. Certainly having these things on display on a BLOG viewed around the world is disgusting. It is disgusting that it is happening, it is disgusting that you, Mr. OT8, engage in this disgusting display of obvious suppression of Scientology and Scientologists.

    It is monumentally disgusting that after all of the 100’s of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of auditing- that this OT 8 is the ultimate product of Corporate Scientology, stupified by Mosey’s telling of the obvious truths that have escaped his observastion.

    If he isn’t ashamed of his performance then he has lost his self respect. This is the point at which a being becomes criminal- lost self respect.

    It is all very disgusting.

    Mosey- You are more a Scientologists than this man every day of the week. Way to go on impinging on this pathetic PTS being.

  86. I think it’s time to pull Red Ride and Tom Cochrane out of the mothballs.

    Lunatic Fringe
    Lunatic Fringe
    I know you’re out there
    You’re in hiding
    And you hold your meetings
    We can hear you coming
    We know what you’re after
    We’re wise to you this time
    We won’t let you kill the laughter

    Lunatic Fringe
    In the twilight’s last gleaming
    This is open season
    But you won’t get too far
    We know you’ve got to blame someone
    For your own confusion
    But we’re on guard this time
    Against your final solution

    We can hear you coming
    (We can hear you coming)
    No you’re not going to win this time
    We can hear the footsteps
    (We can hear the footsteps)
    Way out along the walkway
    Lunatic Fringe
    We know you’re out there
    But in these new dark ages
    There will still be light

    An eye for an eye
    Well, before you go under
    Can you feel the resistance
    Can you feel the….thunder

  87. There’s no such thing as total control. I think that’s the point of all of this, of the Indies, of Marty’s stellar brains and efforts.

    Comm involves two terminals. There’s a source point, and a response at effect point. That response is determined by effect point. The receipt of comm and the response are created by effect point. In this vid, I think the message from source point got through (with upper-case for Source Point, Mosey).

    (Hope you forive me for jumping in and appending my thoughts to your post – no reflection on you, I understand what you’re saying, just an opportunity to get my clarification in.)

  88. Awesome, Haydn!

  89. Wish these guys would study the data series for real and really isolate where it’s coming from and distinguish facts from serfacs/opinions!

  90. Michael Fairman

    What people besides yourself hesitate to trust what’s going on with Marty and Mike? Haven’t you all observed what they have confronted over the past few years; or what has been built because of them; or the truth that is being continually been revealed by them? or that this blog become a focal point, “the ground zero in the struggle to determine how Scientology will be practiced and how it will be perceived by the world at large in future generations” ? In the light of this you have the audacity to bring up the past, and that you and others “hesitate to trust” them! What I suggest you do, John, is take a good look what defines a person’s character — the decisions he or she makes that determines the arc of his or her life.

  91. Welcome to Disconnectionville, David. But I think the walls are crumbling, so hang on, they’ll all be back in comm eventually.

  92. Tom Gallagher

    Central casting at Shorty’s dead cult must be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Ever notice how Raphael has taken on an uncanny resemblance to Boris Karloff in The Mummy.?

  93. Hey Mike, don’t forget to interview those two cameramen, might get some more interesting data, and I’m sure they would rather talk to you than to a Grand Jury. LOL

  94. Another Layer

    Mosey, that was absolutely brilliant! Simple truth, effectively communicated! You could see his engine overheating: golf cart … auditing … golf cart … auditing … auditing? … golf cart? Aieeeeee! Screech! BLAM.

    With all respect and continued support.

  95. Penny, you made me realize that the guy can’t be anything but effect in his comm cycle because he is already almost a solid object just running DM’s commands. LOL

  96. Yes, Marty, that is definitely a CofM standard Method of Operation, to take an acknowledged overt and make you guilty again and again. Not that this is new on the planet, but they’ve sure been using it.

  97. Another thought, Michael, that you brought up, is “Who on this planet could live if they were branded with all the old mistakes they made?” I certainly hope I’ve lived down some not-too-glorious lifetimes. LOL I am who I am today, not who I was when I didn’t know who I am. That has quite a ring to it, huh?

  98. Wow, the clearcut tones of Mosey are not something I want coming at me! High five, girl!

  99. Gotta say, Marty, yours is one of the best (most good-est) replies I’ve seen. True understanding and compassion. Thanks for the example. Thanks for this thread and all preceeding that built up to it.

  100. Komra Moriko

    I would not call it severe, I would call it “the heat of compassion.” This woman cares enough to make her communication connect with this lost soul. I hope he comes around to thank her some day.

  101. Expelled4Life

    You got to love someone who wraps up his career walking on water. 🙂

  102. Mighty Miami

    John, I don’t agree with Marty on the subject of scientology, but I do believe in his commitment to shine a light on the abuses of the CofM. Everyone has done their part, LMT, Anonymous, Ex-Sea Org, etc. We all have our differences, but together we have helped expose the church for what it is and made it easier for others to step out. It’s not up to me to forgive Marty for the past. All I could say is that I respect him for what he is doing with his blog (incredibly powerful and addictive 🙂 ). Mike, welcome to MIAMI. Too bad I missed a chance to see the OT asses in action. Lol

  103. Your humble servant

    Beautiful confrontation, Mosey and Marty. That disgusting creep of a pretended “OT VIII” and pretended “Scientologist” is just a flaming example of how the reputation of the subject of Scientology has been crushed and rubbed into the dirt for the past 25 years.

  104. I loved that movie too! 🙂

  105. Yes indeed Mosey sure did rock his introverted universe.
    What does she know about it? I guess she knows this is all part of David Miscavige’s OT8 process.

  106. Agreed Komra. I saw her comm blow his circuit. I hope he has an OMG moment and quits this drama.

  107. Markus,
    Do you know anything about old hot rod trucks?

    I just bought this 75 GMC, got a bored out 350, 704r tranny, Positraction and the body is in PERFECT shape. Only thing is the electrical is kinda messed up.

    I’m replacing the fuel sends on both tanks, the fuel gauge wiring, the dash instrument panel, and adding in a tach, just for fun. I’m learning all about wiring a vehicle.

    Here’s my question: I’ve got Eagle Alloys on front and rear, but the rear are like 10 inch beasts with high performance racing tires. Would you opt to change them out to match the front which are 8 inch width (15 diameter) and opt for cheaper in the long run replacement tires? Or what?


  108. They’ve probably been handed prepared documents made to look like they come from the blog since they can’t actually read anything themselves or they might get too upset. Gawd forbid the poor thangs. 😉

  109. Dang! That second ‘opt’ in the question should have been ‘go for’.

  110. Lynne,
    Plus 1,000,000!

  111. Haydn, I’m going to almost super secretly drop in here to say I got myself in a session too! I’ll be on OT1 here shortly. 🙂

  112. Me too MJ.

    Mosey is for real.

    Hammer time. Check it out.

  113. Haydn, forgot to say hell yes! Congrats and VWD!

  114. Where truth is concealed.

  115. Mosey,

    You indicated the correct item right there!

    A Scientologist is someone who *audits*.

    Whatever else the Church is doing it certainly isn’t doing that one thing.

    Aside from anything else.

    I remember Ron saying on quite a number of SH Lectures that the biggest upset is *no auditing* and the Church hasn’t really audited anyone since May ’96 with the release of the Golden Age of Tech and began to enforce it as the new “Standard”.

    Now they are actually *preventing auditing*.

    I mean what type of Organization not only doesn’t really audit but actually tries to prevent others from auditing?

    Rhetorical question.

    And what condition would they be in?

    The answer is in the HCOPL entitled “The Promotional Actions of an Organization” where Ron talks about treasonous promotional actions.

    OSA to paraphrase Pogo:

    You have seen the enemy and it is *you*.

  116. Tony,
    That someoma bitch IS the greatess. NO DOUBT.

  117. Claudio & Renata Lugli

    Mosey and Marty we are emotionally impressed by you profound ability to be there confront and PERSIST. Mosey adopted the exact needed Tone Level. It can be that Raphael or whatever is called comes back to Present Time, I doubt it but there is a possibility. Your post is inspirational and gives exactly where we stand. What has happened is very precious and YOU BOTH made it happen. The future is brighter now.
    Thank you for being there taking the heat for all of us.
    Claudio & Renata

  118. Carol-You got it girl

  119. Priceless, you made my day!

  120. Lara Ann-Their so called eternity is at stake if they read anything that might expose the truth. About 5 years ago I talked to a KA drinker and he told he doesn’t care what is going on -he is just going to put blinders on and just get up the “bridge”

  121. Glory Hallelujah for all those getting into session !

  122. John Peeler-there are those who can change and those who won’t-Which one are you?

  123. Absolutely.

    Way to go Monique!

    That told them. No Q&A, just give them the unvarnished truth in plain and direct language. It was very instructive that they didn’t have any response to it.

    And, I found it rather amusing that someone who has been a Scientologist for a relative short period of time, but completely outside the CoS, is much more articulate and has a far better grasp of the situation than these idiots who claim to be at the top of the Bridge but plainly don’t have a clue about what is happening in their own ‘church’.


  124. Raindog-Loved it and the music too

  125. I expect that he, along with all the other OTAs sent out to harass Marty and Monique have been shown carefully edited extracts from the blog. These will have been carefully chosen by OSA to show all the ‘nasty’ things said about the Tiny Tyrant and anything else critical of the CoS, but taken totally out of context in order to portray Marty and his contributors as ‘haters’.

    Given the many hundreds of posts and thousands of comments, it is inevitable that they would find something that they could use. And then, claim that this was representative and shows just how evil all these squirrelly independents are. Hence, idiots like the one shown can claim that they have read parts of Marty’s blog and that they find it ‘disgusting’.

    Obviously the OTAs won’t have been allowed to read whole sections from beginning to end as this might just get them thinking…


  126. Mosey-You have the confront and ethics presence to present them with a goldenrod of “not being a Scientologist” You may have found the condition lower than confusion-not being a Scientogist, when you think you are. These people need to be labeled and you are doing it .

  127. Sinar,
    So true. I don’t think they have the ability to study the data series. When they have decided they already know the answer then the person can’t be student (nothing there to learn to use) and can’t duplicate the Data Series (gigantic fixed ideas in front of their faces.) Add to that the lack of humility blocking their ability to review.

    My guess is evaluation and data series study and application has been fully knocked out. It is the road to truth and if those in the cage could see the truth peek about from behind the shadows the facade would vanish. All would see that when the purpose and product is auditing and auditors and not money and buildings and events the who and why would necessitate a change of exec personnel. You and I know that is not allowed at this time.

    The ability to see, recognize or act upon the truth is forbidden at this time. Rather than an OT organization creating the desired future and using the incredible Data Series as a major tool what we will see is that when the walls are knocked down from the outside those inside the zoo will have a WTF moment – how can this be occurring when we are winning and have the highest expansion occurring in the history of Scn, blah blah BS.

    The SO staff allowing this happen, the OSA staff, the public supporting this suppression, OT Asses etc will be forced to confront the fact that remaining politically correct under DM is impossible. These goofballs and non confront people still believe they can remain politically correct. Political correctness in this instances means one can pick up the turd from the clean end.

  128. Wow! Go Mose! You blew me away!!!

  129. A very apt musical interlude RD,

    “Lunatic Fringe” per the exact definition of a lunatic as covered in HCOPL 3 Dec 64 and as given in the Admin Dictionary.

    The Church is full of them these days.

    (My wife and I call ’em “OT” idiots because for the most part they are untrained and thanks to the Golden Age of Tech mis-trained morons.)

    Notice how this “OT VIII” choose to vanish after Mosey suggested that maybe he should audit someone instead of ride around like an idiot on a silly Golf Cart wearing a stupid T-shirt and a baseball cap.

    Like their faux leader the supreme lunatic.

    They have no concept of Scientology.

    As I wrote before OSA.

    Dave can prove us wrong by giving a live auditing demonstration.

    You can have him pick up one of the many failed case (like the guy in the vid) that your org churns out these days and do a C/S 53 and 40x to F/Ning per C/S Series 95.

    (Like that’s ever gonna happen)

    Otherwise go fuck yourselves and let us apply Standard Scientology.

  130. So you wrote on the blog to report what happened instead of giving in to their demands?
    LOL Go David!
    You rock!!!

  131. John Peeler ~~
    Outside the “church” people can practice mercy and forgiveness.
    There is no need to put heads on pikes out here.

  132. Well done Haydn. I’ll round up some PCs for ya 😉

  133. Brilliant analysis. Top Notch connecting of the dots Marty.
    Bravo Mosey.
    So much said and so much impinged in barely one minute.

  134. Luis Agostini

    Congratulations Mosey.

    To me, your wisdom, and confront, and strength has certainly increased as evidenced by this last video when I compare it to the video with the lady at your door.

    I am in admiration of you.


  135. Spoken like a trained tech terminal with ethics presence.

  136. “Tell your cult leader if he wants to send a message, not to send some jive ass, western union, messenger boy!”
    You hear that DM? Mosey’s ready and waiting to take you on face-to-face. She’s even more scary than Marty ain’t she?
    Chicken shit!

  137. John,
    We all lived and all have been lied to but it’s the way you’re dealing with it that defines you. Of course you can hang up in it and adopt the save solution that everybody lies and that there’s no sincerity, but look who you’re punishing….. you! The only one that can make you feel bad is… You’re the one to antagonize others and create your own emotions; compare them (not trust or distrust) to most on this blog and make your conclusions.

  138. one of those who see

    Mosey!!! Bingo!!! Perfect!!!!
    Maybe these guys in the cart need a doubt formula :
    One one side-riding around in a golf cart (looking ridiculous-overt on 1st dynamic) stalking people
    The other side – Auditing people and freeing beings

  139. Tory Christman

    I agree with all of you: Mosey: You ROCK girl. You attacked what they were DOING, vs just attacking them, as they seem to be doing to you and Marty (and anyone else there). What bozos! What ever happened to “The Data Series”? When *was* the last “Evaluation” actually done?

    Last week-end, we went and picketed Celebrity Center at their “Gala Event”. First off, they had HUGE plastic walls around CC–so they looked like idiots, as these knuckleheads do, here with you all.
    Secondly—their neighbors honked, high five’d us, asked us to come back for the 2 hours I was there. I’ve never seen such support for picketers.
    These idiots in golf carts are THE best example of why NOT to join the phony “church” of $cientology. Actually, thanks Davey boy and continue to prove our points, day by day, year by year.

    My best to all here, and all not here, too. Marty, please don’t speak of Esmb as if it’s something less than. Esmb is home for many Ex-Scientologists and Scientologists, alike, as well as critics, too. Every place people can share information and experiences is important. I think you know that. Thanks for this blog, too. You showing these pinheads helps more wake up, daily. Come one, come ALL>>>Get the Hell out of *there* and come join the parties. My best to ALL 🙂

  140. Markus Stuck,
    Got to love your last name; looks like you have an unalterable opinion about Hubbard and his methods. How do you explain the overwhelming support in and out of the Church for LRH and the Tech he developed? If you hate the Church and its methods I understand but attacking the guy that most effectively fights the Church and its methods, makes no sense.

  141. Excellent, relevant comment and quote Jim.

    Viewpoint 1. I am a free being with a flat Grade O. I can give or receive any communication with anyone and not be the adverse effect of it. I can differentiate and quite easily judge the veracity of statements made by others and can shift my viewpoint comfortably based on new information.

    Viewpoint 2. I have been told by my pope that communication can irrepairably damage me and that it is bad and the communicator is evil and I believe everything I am told by my pope.

    One is factually free to assume whichever viewpoint one wishes. The choice is yours.

    Very very well done on the tone 40 comm, Mosey. I think you penetrated whether the OTA wanted to “get it” or not.

    Well done on connecting the dots, Marty…they are lining up perfectly and the whole picture has become crystal clear.


  142. Welcome on your road up.

  143. Tory Christman

    PS: Does anyone here know IF “Dave” still does “Evaluations”…or is that just something from the past that’s never used? Amazing…if true. It seems, per their actions, over the 11 years I’ve been out…they couldn’t possibly be doing “Evals” OR they have SUPER STUPID people doing them. Marty–pre your leaving, did they do “evals” ..and if so, what the Heck were they using as “data”?

    Either way……….good for all out, super bad for those “in”. Tick Tock, Tick Tock….Time IS on OUR side!!! Tory/Magoo

  144. Exactly Ingrid,
    With excellent TR’s, I might add, so that Ed Bryan had to acknowledge what was said which in turn got Joanne to cut the comm and go completely into defensive mode, shoving him out of the picture!

  145. Tory Christman

    John Peeler….You know I love you. I always will. I have to agree with Amy
    on this one: It’s SO easy to judge others. I lived through the same with Bob Minton, where people just turned on him, over night. It was AWFUL. Then they turned on me, because I wouldn’t turn on him. Just as each person needs to unfold as they need to, I see Marty and Mike doing so…and frankly, kicking some serious ASS while doing so (and Mosey, too).

    Always keep in mind the old saying “Never Judge a person until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes”.

    Remember that one? We ALL (self included) shall do better just keeping that one line in mind. I love you ALL>>>>I know you all care. Peace be with you! Tory/Magoo

  146. Looks to me like the OT VIII actually didn’t learn all those things.

    OTVIII? OT 0

  147. Great news on the auditing!

  148. Second!

  149. John Peeler,

    There is no leader “de facto” or otherwise out here.

    No authority of any kind.

    So who we gonna *trust* other than ourselves.

  150. I just can’t seem to get beyond the fact the Church sent that elderly man out there to harass Marty and his family. He was clearly confused.

    Is NOTHING sacred anymore?

  151. Mosey, WOW!. Good for you. You are one of the few people I know of and have heard on video go right up to a member of the church and let them have it. Those people never shut their g*d d**n f*****g mouths one they get the chance to open them. They are always rattling on like NOBODY else does loud and very insulting. If I had been there I would have done like you Mosey. Good for you! 🙂

  152. I wholeheartly agree, Great stuff Mosey. You and Marty are a great team.
    Re the golf carters, I still scratch my head with their designation as OTs, but I guess we have to identify them with something…

  153. SA,

    One of the reasons why the Church is in the condition it is.

    Which is way below *treason*.

    Is that it has become an authoritarian faith based religion worse than Catholicism (at least the Pope has a theological grasp of the subject of Christianity and is appointed by the selection of Cardinals) unlike Miscavige who just arbitrarily assigned himself the role of “ecclesiastical leader” just because the media and the mindless morons at Int call him that and just because he happens to be the “Chairman of the Board RTC” which in fact no longer exists as a board and hasn’t existed for some time.

    As Miscavige said in that puff piece the St. Petersburg Times put out in the late ’90’s power depends on people who listen to you.

    He could have added to listen to the *big lie*.

    That’s all his so called “leadership” is based on.

    Nothing but lies.

    The fact is that Miscavige is nothing but a parasite. A parasitical entity like the reactive mind.

    One that the PC in this case the organization must follow or be subjected to pain.

    So as we know.

    They dramatize instead.

    So instead of the structure of the Organization of Thetan, Mind and Body we just have Bank and Body with no actual theta.

    The organization has become a massive *bank dramatization* with the biggest meanest bank in charge.

    On that note.

    I remember back in the early ’80’s just before the coup took over they began running out the third dynamic engram at various orgs, Franchises and in the field according to the book “Notes on the Lectures”.

    An action that was stopped despite the fact or more likely because the action was producing results.

  154. Michael Fairman

    You bandy the word “Nazi” about as if you actually know what it signifies,
    just as the right and left politicians and certain polltical commentators use it to defame their opponents. Disgusting in all cases. Can you really compare what Hubbard or Marty did to what Nazification meant to the peoples of Eastern and Western Europe? If in the past Hubbard and Marty intimidated, if they succeeded to besmirch reputations, if they sent people to the RPF, those actions are are light years from what the Nazis did to the Jews, Gypsies, the gays, and other “undesireables” Once the Nuremberg Laws went into effect the Jews were doomed. The “final solution” was under way. Once Germany attacked Poland ,a state of war existed and it was next to impossible to get out. People who tried and made it the shores England, the US and other countries were dispassionately turned away. (except perhaps for Australia, who took them in but forced them into hard labor and a few thousand children, who were accepted by the UK) People were already being funneled into the camps to be exterminated. They could not escape.
    The whining that goes on about what Hubbard did or what Marty did
    is abhorrent. Accusing them of using “Nazi methods” is worse than abhorrent. Marty and Mike see what they were and are attempting to make up for that. Marty, Mike and the majority here sees what is going on in the church and are attempting to find another way. Neither Marty, Mike or anyone forces another to come to this blog. Marty forces no one to come to him for auditing, or once audited, to continue — a far cry from what goes on in Miscaviges Church. If people have been manipulated to stay in the church that is their choice. They still have the freedom to look and if they choose, get out. Sea Org members who are languishing in the RPF for ungodly periods of time, would not be executed if they escaped.
    If they could gather their courage, they could tell their keepers “Fuck You” and escape. Many have. You’re certainly free to call Hubbard’s work or actions, or whatever you meant, bullshit, and Marty’s promotion of Hubbard’s work, bullshit. But think long and hard of what it means to compare what was done and what is being done by Marty, to the Nazis.

  155. Tory,

    I think the last “eval” (if you can disgrace the term that way) done was the one that justified altering or squirreling the tech and initiated the “bright” (as in a singularity or black hole) “idea” (as in fixed idea or service facsimile) known as the “Golden” (as in pyrite or fool’s gold) Age of Tech where in COB (meaning Completely Operating *Bank*) found out that despite the fact that many auditors and C/Ses where trained personally by Ron that the “blind were leading the blind”.

    As far as I know prior to the Scientology wrecking crew pretty much unmocked the orgs capability by eliminating any staff who had been originally trained on the HDSEC which included the evil rotten nasty GO Staff of B1 which was a prerec for becoming B1 staff and all those gold bricks in the FCB who were wasting time doing evals instead of doin’ real work like reggin’ for the IAS and selling the latest release or digging trenches on the RPF.

    Not that they would have been able to do a proper eval anyway with out stats from INCOM which had become nothing but a copy page by then for scanning in ethics reports on people like me 🙂

    Talk about the blind leading the blind!

    Anyway to answer your question Tory.

    There probably hasn’t been a proper eval done probably since say ’86.

  156. Tory Christman

    That’s why they are NOT a “Church”….they are a mafia-like organization.
    Good point, theoracle.


  157. Tory Christman

    Interesting, RJ….that makes sense, thank you for that.

    What DO they operate on now, just all “DM Says”?
    I remember when IAS was formed. We who were Lifetime members
    of HASI…and auditors, complained. The response? “Yeah—the only people we have complaining are the auditors asking “Where is it in writing”. THINK ABOUT THAT, LURKERS.

    To lurkers: WTFU! LOOK. LOOK again. See those “outpoints”??
    THAT IS **NOT** Your fault, as they try to push off on the members.

    How many times do I have to say that? I’m SICK of hearing of people
    D E A D (way too young) OR who took their own lives, due to the
    abusive actions within the CULT of $cientology.
    BAIL WHILE U STILL CAN. Call me if you need help.
    (818) 588-3044

  158. Tory — Like everything else Miscavige does, he also has perfected “Reverse Eval Tech.” He decides what the handling is and works back from there to the Ethics Why (usually on the order of “they are trying to suppress me”), then he comes up with his Why, then he finds Data to fit his preconceived solution, and then invents some sort of Situation, Stats and Policy. He messes this up just like he messes up everything else. Really he uses it to justify his crackpot plans — Marty wrote about this on an earlier post about the Gruesome Age of Tech and Miscavige’s really cool why that the blind were leading the blind (this was in fact his handling — have the blind lead the blind into rote procedures and call it “auditing.”)

  159. Haydn, that is an awesome win, and I couldn’t agree more.

    To throw in my two cents, I recently flew out to LA and did 15 hours of auditing with Ingrid Smith (Ingrid, you rock! : ), and I’m currently wrapping up business and making plans to move to Tallahassee and train up to Grad V auditor.

    My purpose is definitely revitalized. Marty and Mosey are most certainly an inspiration, as are everyone posting on this blog.

    (And you as well, I really loved your article on faith at

  160. martyrathbun09

    Not a joke.

  161. Ingrid, This is probably the case with most. Not-ising the truth, lying to themselves. I know, I did it to some extent, too. 🙂

  162. Don’t forget: you can send messages to these losers telling them just how “worthwhile” their efforts are through YouTube.

  163. Tory,

    My wife complained because she was an LT HASI and she felt the IAS was nothing but a rip off.

    Me I was on staff. So I just avoided them.

    However I did write a report on them when they took a PC of mine who I happened to auditing on Int and locked him in a room for several hours and refused to let him out.

    To say it keyed him in a bit would be an understatement!

    I don’t know if everybody does exclusively as DM says. I know I didn’t.

    In fact practically everything coming from the little rodent I’d write an orders query or a job endangerment chit or an out tech report or….
    but I found it was getting kinda lonely.

  164. Michael, Hear! Hear! Well said.

  165. Here’s an idea Tory. Use those big plastic walls they put up to do a slide show. Get a projector or whatever and show all the Bert Leahy interviews to all passersby. Gives me a chuckle to think about it.

  166. Ax,
    It seems easier to just out and out plain lie, saving all that research, paper, & packs which is “admin”, while their ethics and tech are already out the door. The SQB life is based on lies – what’s another one?

  167. Jim,
    You feeding poor Markus Stuckenbrock your tire wear problems? I would opt with easy replacement if you were keeping the truck for a while.

  168. SA,
    Totally agreed, you have a great way of putting things into words, especially the concept of “the clean end”.

  169. Yeah–about those golf carts, one of the status modes of transportation at the int base. If you were driven around in a golf cart you were a VIP getting a tour of only the things that were all gussied up and made ready for you to visit. You got to whiz past all those staff peons on foot all around the place. So I am sure the golf cart makes them feel very “In” and special. Who-hoo.

    But they are only getting to see what they are allowed to see–or I should say what they are scared to look at or refuse to look at on their own.

    Mosey has never taken a service inside a “real org” and look at her go! And look at these jerks who have spent years in the C of M who STILL don’t get how stupid and duped they have let themselves become.

    There is seriousness to the amount of the suppression, but while watching this little clip I was truly laughing out loud wondering what that guy’s AHA! Moment is going to look like!

    Go, Ground Zero, Go!

  170. “Notes on the Lectures” … one of the LRH books that’s no longer available in the CoM … even though Ron referenced it in various places, including HCOBs and checksheets.

    And it was one of the few handy references which described how to run out a 3D engram using open communication within the group … and now it’s effectively been banned in the CoM. Amazing.

  171. Get Down Mosey!

    I get it now, Marty.
    Thank you.
    Thank you.

  172. Great points, Michael & Lynne!

    Peeler – it’s all about results. Whatever M&M did in the past is now a done deal, the results now is what counts – there are more freed from the POB’s cult and more Indies being made as auditors and getting case gain as PCs and Pre-OTs!

    Perhaps you prefer other practices or spiritual means, but that’s your own choice.

  173. martyrathbun09

    No you can’t – they don’t accept comments.

  174. Thanks for the clip Dan, totally utter Classic lines which Marty delivered to Ralphie, oops, I mean Rafael!

  175. TroubleShooter

    “Yes, keep at it, because you are about to fully attest to: OT Hate, Truth Concealed.”


  176. Looks like he didn’t learn much – things such as Look don’t listen, personal integrity etc.

    However, he has one qualification for the SQB as an OTAss: blind faith.

  177. RJ, I remember something to the effect that every other part of the organization is only there so that auditing and the training of auditors can occur in volume. I got a teeny little bit of auditing at the base (nothing on the Grade Chart of course) in 20 years of working there, and a TON of case gain at Marty’s in just a few days. I had forgotten what it really felt like after all those years of BS.

    So there we have Marty and Mosey in their little Casa deivering case gain and wins every single day, and thousands (?) of KoolAId drinking staff who produce…..uh….IAS memberships and CD lecture sales…and uh….um…..suppression of any standard auditing or training. Wake up, KoolAid fans! The sugary sweetness is a disguise.

  178. Scott Campbell

    Mosey: “Yes, he’s fucking auditing – and you’re riding around in a golf cart. Now who’s the Scientologist.”

    And that’s the bottom line.

  179. OMG! STOPPP with the engaging! It’s so fruitless. Why are you even talking to them?

    It doesn’t make you look all empowered it just makes you sound frazzled and victimised. = THEIR objective “seems” to be achieved..

    If the fruitcakes are just sitting there with their thumbs up there ass it’s all the truth the rest of the world needs to see. Please, I’m begging you, be better than them. Walk the walk.

  180. Scott Campbell


    That reminds me of an old friend who called me from the Freewinds a short while back. Not to long into the conversation i realized, “he doesn’t even know why he is calling me”.

  181. Michael- a big plus one

  182. Mosey, bravo! I think you knocked out some of this guys’s circuits. I saw a bit of fear and confusion on his part. I wouldn’t have been surprised to hear/see Chiquita barking and gnawing at this guy’s ankles in 2 pronged attack!


  183. Probably because it contained too many semicolons or something and other forms of subtle “suppression” left in it by those evil and dastardly unnamed editors or whatever.

    Yeah right.

    I’m glad I kept my original Pubs Orgs editions of *all* the basic books.

  184. Mike- You rock with your plans to TRAIN!!!!!!!!

  185. A fascinating study of inversion.

  186. Sometimes, while watching a game, you see a sudden shift of momentum. In a few minutes, one team goes up fifteen or twenty points and you realize the other team is in serious trouble.

    This short video demonstrates that such a shift has occurred.

  187. Our feelings about others, good and bad, are more often a reflection of ourselves than that person. If you want to find only bad in another, what does that really say about yourself?

    Fortunately, we can change. Fortunately, we can learn to see the good in others. We can forgive and move on. We can find that life really is a special gift.

    This doesn’t mean that you have to believe that the mechanic who has just ruined your engine shouldn’t take responsibility, nor that you should allow him to get away with crappy work. And this doesn’t mean that evil behavior must now be acceptable.

  188. Rock on Mosey! Well done 🙂

  189. Scott Campbell

    Gotta love ‘ol Muhammad. That dude is an original. Thanks Tony.

  190. Yes, Marty and Mosey. Thank you for putting all the puzzle pieces together for us. You have done so much! ml, Laura and Mike

  191. Scott Campbell

    Here’s to the Independents!

  192. I totally agree with you, Michael.

    Godwin’s Law states that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%).”

    Great point.

    But if Hubbard’s and DM’s and Marty’s and Rinder’s acts are not compared to Hitler’s or the Nazi’s, and simply stated as facts in their own context – are they able to be confronted and discussed in open debate on Marty’s blog?

    Why or why not?

  193. To Infinity and Beyond

    First of all, Mosey you are so awesome! Watching this little clip, never mind it being surreal to be happening at all, it dawned on me that these cretins are messengers of “The Leader of all Leaders”.

    David Miscavige, you are such a joke.

  194. Had to leave but wanted to post this. Ground zero is definitely right! And it has become oh so obvious that David Miscavige and those who emulate him, don’t want ANYONE actually accomplishing OT and making it in this universe by any means.
    And if you happened to actually accomplish anything remotely OT already and remain in his midst, he and his clones will do everything possible to reverse any theta you’ve gained.
    Get out as quick as you can with any remaining theta you have and experience how damned easy it is to get auditing away from that guy’s church!

  195. Tony DePhillips

  196. Dear Monique –

    I started out in Scientology in a mission in Peoria, IL.

    It was a “PR” affair, where, per LRH policy, everyone played nice. There were no Sea Org members in fake Navy uniforms, and the people wandering in were allowed to pretty much believe whatever they wanted. There was no heavy ethics, no yelling and screaming. That all came later. Letting the public see that right off would have been too overtly crazy, see, and we would have driven off the new people.

    So, watching what you are going through there with Marty, the former *Inspector General for Ethics for the Religious Technology Center*, it appears to me that you have experienced a kind of “ice-water dip”, or a “Baptism of Fire”, with regard to Scientology.

    You seem to be holding your own, though. And my hat is off to you for that. I very much admire your willingness to fight this fight, and I can see what you guys are doing together. It really is something awesome. You, or Marty, may not believe me, but it really does bring tears to my eyes.

    But I wanted to ask something of you… As far as I know, you’ve lived most of your life outside of Scientology, and you have never been a Sea Org member.

    Could you please make sure that you never forget the common decency that regular, normal human beings share with each other, and could you please make sure that Marty is reminded of that every day he wakes up beside you?

    I have a fear that independent Scientology will become just as crazy as regular Scientology did. And I see you, Monique Rathbun, as a great hope that it won’t.

    I can see that you are an excellent anchor for Marty as he fights to bring back sanity and common decency to Scientology.

    Please keep being that.

    For him, and for us all.

    Thank you.

    Allen Stanfield

  197. Chad Braunersrither

    Marty, Thank you for this past weeks postings. I’ve had “regular” people come and ask about you. (I’m pretty open about my Scientology and SO past life) It really opens their eyes to how abusive the COS is or has become. I don’t know what kind of legs this will have in the world and status quo but I hope you have more in store for us.

  198. Eileen Clark

    You are a jewel, a bright shining starry jewel.
    The SB goons are loathsome, revolting and repelling.
    I am so sorry you are put in the position of having to deal with them.
    But, as you are, I am soooo glad that you can kick ass with such precision.
    The SB goons have gone so far down the scale that they are truly not
    capable of knowing what to do with someone like you. Makes me laugh and cry.

    “Even heroes can have lice.” LRH

  199. Casablanca rocks! 🙂

  200. Confused or not, this OT Ass Ed Bryan also has harassed Michael, Karen #1 in LA with reports to law enforcement there filed and now Mike Rinder in Florida.

    Interstate harassment and stalking? He seems beyond confusion and needs to get out of the POB comatose state.

  201. GR,

    It’s a RED entitled “All Roads Lead to Auditing”.

    Ironic that the higher you were on the Org Board. It seems the less auditing you got.

    We used to get cases all the time from Int Base who’d been there for almost a decade and got as far as objectives.

    Well more like objectives and a bazillion clearance checks!

    Total violation of the HCOPL “Staff Cases and Morale”.

    Glad you got some auditing rojo babe 🙂

  202. wannabeclear

    I know that the constant presence of these people harassing you and your neighbors can’t be pleasant. However, the ingenious plan to wear dopey t-shirts meant to wound you, that are instead the apparel equivalent of a four year-old sticking their tongue out and yelling “naa nee naa nee boo boo” has got to at least provide a little comic relief. That and the whiny “we’re wearing great hats and t-shirts” comeback to Mosey’s biting shutdown of their “very important” Scientology assignment, just makes me feel sorry for these pathetic, mind-controlled, mental midgets. How fulfilling their lives must be!

  203. Definitive moment from Mosey at Ground Zero. This goes down in history. I will always remember Mosey’s words.

  204. Hmm. I knew they didn’t have the sand to accept open comments, but I thought that you could PM them.

    Well, at least we know they’re monitoring this blog.

    Keep up that Confront and ARC, dumbasses!

  205. Look, having an old guy rant impotently at Mosey from a golf cart is just not good PR. I enjoyed watching Mosey easily handle that old boy. He looked rattled. He looked like he was going to wander off into the street muttering to himself.

    Seriously, what’s up with that angry old guy in the golf cart? Was that John Allender’s father? I ask because he has the same angry/crazed incoherence going on as Allender — except he looks like what Allender will look like in twenty years.

    It appears that Miscavige’s roster of crazy OT’s who can be put in front of camera’s is pretty sparse. This is really quite pathetic.

  206. one of those who see

    Marty wrote:”This is Ground Zero in the struggle to determine how Scientology will be practiced and how it will be perceived by the world at large in future generations.”

    A quote from Largo Paris 69: “All religions descend into solidity instead of up into the lightness of the wind.” (LP69 will be writing on his own in the fall when he has access to a computer. A Scientologist since the 70’s, he now supports the Indie movement. I have been filling him in.)

    Scientology, correctly applied ascends up into the lightness of the wind.
    The fruits of correct application include freedom, joy, competence, courage and love. As exemplified by Marty and Mosey.

  207. Yeah Haydn!

    ML Tom

  208. one of those who see

    Perfect Raindog – This one’s on my ipod, but I never knew all the lyrics – perfect!!

  209. Rory Medford

    This blog is exposing everything that is wrong with current Scientology and its management.

    Keep exposing, keep the truth flowing.

    No amount of lawyers or intimidation can stop the truth from coming out.

    Fantastic job Marty and gang at keeping it going against all odds.

  210. Floating Needle


  211. MOSEY!

    I effin love you!

    That’s how we get shiznit done down in Texas!


  212. Yes, perfect reference, Tom !

    And ground Zero, perfect definition. This IS what is happening

    and Mosey, « Yes, he is auditing and you are running around in a golf cart ! «
    Perfect line! This so sums it up !

    I still couldn’t understand why most of my friends refuse to look.

    They have all disagreed with a million things the church was doing over the years, were thrown into confusion, then handled it with stable data like : The Tech works, the church is the Tech, the church is right.

    If they would look, they would be hit with decades of confusion !

    THANKS !

  213. Right, that’s why they dress orange with “CITY JAIL” in capitals; total identification!

  214. Tony DePhillips

    To Marty:

  215. wannabeclear

    Mighty Miami, right on. We don’t all have to be in lock step agreement about everything in order to share some of the same goals and beliefs. Mike, Marty, etal, respectfully, I don’t agree with you on the subject of Scientology either, but I believe strongly in your right to practice it, share it, promote it, FREELY. That freedom of choice without coercion is what separates a religion or belief system from a destructive cult.

    In all fairness, because you were part of the Co$ machinery for so long, there are some people (as John Peeler pointed out, though offensively) who are just never going to trust you. Especially because you have not disavowed Scientology, only the abuses and criminal activity of the Co$. You have to know that if you’d left AND disavowed the subject, the John Peelers and the Markus Stucks would have embraced you, in spite of anything you did while inside. Personally, though, I think the reason you have been so effective in disrupting the Co$ since you left is because you do still consider yourselves Scientologists.

    The sensitivity around freedom of religion makes it easy for Miscavige to throw accusations like “anti-religious bigots” and “hate groups” at Anonymous or other critics who are non-believers. It’s much more likely to make people (like the press) back off from asking tough questions. On the other hand, when they are harassing you simply because you’ve chosen to practice Scientology your way, outside of their reach or influence, they look like anti-religious bigots and it becomes clear that their goal is not freedom of religion, but enormous sums of money and manipulation and control over the minds of the followers of their “sanctioned” church.

    The beauty of being out here is that you get to believe as you see fit. You can question and discuss and debate without fear of reprisal or “losing your eternity.” Although you are now the primary target of the narcissistic sociopath and his goon squad, he no longer holds any real power over you. So, play on Marty, Mike, etc. As long as you are speaking out and helping other people learn the truth, I’ll be here — reading, commenting, agreeing and disagreeing as the conversations warrant..

  216. Chris Johnson

    Once again, I’ll comment that it’s been simply fascinating to watch this story unfold over the years, months, weeks… and now it seems like the narrative and drama get better day by day. It’s amazing how the story keeps topping itself!

    Marty & Mike were among the top actors in the dangerous cult of corporate Scientology. Thankfully, they woke the fuck up and are now top enemies. The cult has thrown literally everything they’ve got to shut them down and it’s only served to clearly document that it ain’t gonna happen. Each bigger assault only results in a more embarrassing humiliation. It’s almost like the story won’t end until somehow, the writers of this demented reality show can figure out how to get dark yellow urine hilariously splashed onto David Miscavige’s screwed-down hairdo.

    The suspense of pondering what happens next is just awesome! I’m hooked!

    Does the Pope On a Box go out in a blaze of Waco-style glory? Or does he slither off to Bulgravia with sacks of gold bullion as per LRH policy?

    Something more mundane is the most likely scenario. Perhaps a steady downward spiral until finally the “Truth Revealed” is that the Emperor has no clothes, and also a very small, very gay penis? But then what? Does some lesser madman somehow seize the reigns?

    It seems to me that the real juice here is the independent movement. By themselves, they appear to determine the long-term arc of the religious legacy. But the assets of Corporate Scientology are considerable and there must be many dark forces with “pull the plug, slice the pie” fantasies about getting their hands on a piece of it. Lawyers, former members with legitimate claims, victims, relatives, etc. It might turn into a muddy free-for-all once things really start to swirl.

    And so the irresistible force meets an unmovable object. Fascinating! 🙂

    PS: Marty can see far because he stands on the shoulders of giants, many who go forgotten. It’s as if we should all observe a moment of silence for Bob Minton, Arnie Lerma, Zenon Panoussis, Karin Spaink, Grady Ward, Dennis Erlich, Paulette Cooper, Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. And especially for Lisa McPherson. So many wrecked lives, so much damage. So much horrifying criminal activity!

  217. Mighty Miami

    After doing some web surfing, I’ve become uncomfortable with some of the comments posted here. I looked up John Peeler, having recognized his name as one of the “good guys”. And yes he truly seems to be a good guy. Marty, I know that the point you wanted to make on this topic was important and John’s comment was distracting from the message, but his point was valid. I read the rest of his post on ESMB and could not find anything rude. Offensive? Maybe to someone who still believes in the tech, but John was in and what he experienced was real. His statements on Hubbard may seem harsh, but I must admit I agree with those views. John’s position in Scientology and knowledge of certain information can not be dismissed. The problems with Scientology began with Hubbard and were only magnified with Miscavige. If people read the rest of John’s post, they would see that his intention was not malevolent, but out of concern that the abusive policies could be carried on into the Independant Movement.
    Marty, I admire the work you have done to expose David Miscavige and have much sympathy for all that you have had to endure with the harassment from the Squirrel busters( you too, Mosey 🙂 ). Mr Fairman, you are right, some people do use the term “nazi” too liberally. John Peeler and Markus Stuckenbrock have an axe to grind, but rightfully so. Their stories should be heard, if we are to create a free and open forum. I hate to see the feuding that goes on amongst ex -members. As an outsider, I only want to see the abuses stopped and justice served. Remember, when it comes down to it, we’re all on the same team.

  218. They took their act on the road.

  219. And the “handling” is always some kind of abuse/degradation. His ‘”preconceived solutions” are nothing but the overts boiling over within him, and he works back from there to “discover”(invent) his motivators and justifications.

  220. ESMB = Ex Scientologist’s Motivatoring Board. I use to think they weren’t too bad after they first started up – they had so many high tech terminals giving amazing insight to many areas both good and bad regarding Scientology but now the majority of posts are stuck in the opp term. Such a shame as they now mostly view the tech as dark and insidious thing.
    Not a recommended place if you like ARC and hope.

  221. This may be a bit off post but I am seeing something really strange with the churchies. There is a grayness about them, lifelessness and a lack of ability to communicate clearly, succinctly with little or no comm lag. This is really sad as I believe the church under DM is auditing the life out of people, when it should be auditing them so as to have a fuller life.

    Watching SYTYCD the other night both my husband & I noticed how Katie Holmes just wasn’t really bright or clear with her comm it was all pointless drivel. She looked suppressed, part of suppression is fear, apathy and way down deep anger.

    I remember the days when well done auditing hours, peeps in class etc was what we celebrated and people were so shiny bright they glowed with brilliance. If you aren’t seeing this in Scio-ists something is very wrong with the picture. Marty I fear that the majority of the current peeps in the current CO$ are in the gray category and the field is the only place available for true handling & clean up.

    Mosey you shine, you rock, you tell the truth. You are a warrior princess. I would gladly fight by your side. We could have a blueberry pancake cook-off and serve the weary traveling golf cart crew some sustenance. Kill them with loving kindness, then give them a dose of reality – like why aren’t you auditing or on course …. this is what helps people.

  222. Except the bridge as currently delivered degrades and suppresses, leaving many very sick. Continued agreement to be suppressed is so foreign to a being, in order to get out of the game he will mock up body death or psychosis. I’ve personally witnessed this. Sad, sad my heart breaks because of the insanity of it all and lost friends.

  223. martyrathbun09

    They have both demonstrated they are died it the wool NCG. Read Science of Survival. To continue encouraging such death comm is to enourage people toward death. Peeler put knowing lies in his post. I’ve engaged these two plenty here and when corrected on fact they ignore it and keep asserting lies they’ve been corrected on with whiney, false, misleading comm intended to drive off topic. There is a word for it, trolling. Trolling is moderated here – and if you survey the majority who keep coming, you’d find that is one of the reasons they do. See my blog moderation policy,
    Welcome to my home, or not.

  224. Me too rehab’g solo skills in prep for doing ‘old’ OT 7. WHOO HOO! Thanks Trey, Marty & everyone hear on the blog for just being who you are you inspire & encourage just by being you. Mosey you got ne listening to my LRH tape library after Marty posted you had finished the Phoenix Lectures.

    Let us all inspire one another and embrace in a new of time moving on up a little higher.

  225. New Unit of time ….. fone finners

  226. A very impinging video. Thanks.

  227. martyrathbun09

    Because unlike a lot of other forums we try to keep it to the facts as much as possible here. So, you see a lot of truth here despite efforts to lessen it and destroy it. See blog moderation policy,

  228. George M. White

    Great post. I can’t stop laughing. He did exactly that in the “Correction of OTVII/OTVIII solo auditing” bulletin that I read in 1996. He had no knowledge whatsoever of the level. He needed some sort of a why to just hit on people(OTVIII’s). I might also add that in the process he inflated himself into the “expert” when it was obvious that he was “clueless”. Yes, he hides behind the title COB and uses his position to suppress and avoid
    any arising of sanity or skillfull thought.

    Much loving-kindness,

  229. George M. White

    Excellent point.
    When I read the bulletin in 1996 which was written by him, I also remember that it contained what we call in my tradition as “harsh speech” This is like the overts boiling over. You could feel the anger and ill-will.
    Also, it hit me. The Buddha considers “harsh speech” and “physical violence” as both nearly equally wrong. Thus, the scenario is that David Miscavige physically assaults people. He is now the motivation behind a siege based on ill-will, hatred and very, very harsh speech. He cannot beat people with his fists. However, from the point of view of my tradition, you can make the case that he is really in significant escalation of blacker and blacker bad kamma. He is closer to self-destruction.
    Much loving-kindness,

  230. My daughter and I noticed the same thing about Katie. It seemed that she had taken notes and kept referencing them to make comments. Sad. But, for people who love dance, what a show!!!!

  231. You touched on something very pertinent:

    “You only take flak when you’re over the target.”

    When I first started investigating the whole subject of Scientology, I heard a lot of chatter from both sides. What really gave away the CoS’ hand was how vigorously they pursued critics, sued over copyright infringement, and generally went apeshit when someone started criticizing them.

    They don’t sue people for libel or slander. They repeatedly sued people for telling the *truth*.

    So I know I sound like a broken record, but this is for OSA and Davey Boy:

    The more you act like a cult, the less the rest of the world trusts you. The more you lie, the more people are going to leave. The harder you pursue critics, the more pushback you’re going to get from society until one day the walls are going to come crashing down on you.

    LRH said you would pull this in. You should have listened.

    Expect us.

  232. Freedom Fighter

    “We’re in there practicing Scientology every day while you people are out here riding around in a golf cart.”

    You go girl! Mosey, you nailed it! Perfect!

  233. Freedom Fighter

    And, I found it rather amusing that someone who has been a Scientologist for a relative short period of time, but completely outside the CoS, is much more articulate and has a far better grasp of the situation than these idiots who claim to be at the top of the Bridge but plainly don’t have a clue about what is happening in their own ‘church’.


  234. Lady Min,

    Freedom Fighters.


  235. Cowboy Poet,

    You cast for the play at hand. You want someone who looks and acts like a bum to play the role.

    What argument could we make if actual OT’s showed up? If individuals filled with insight and understanding played these roles? If individuals who were actually willing to confront and look and observe communicated their message and listened to what we had to say?

    What better cast for the play at hand?

  236. Freedom Fighter

    This is a very key distinction. As one who is working to shed the “head on a pike” mentality that rubbed off on me after 24 years in the “church”, this was a timely comment. Thank you for making it.

  237. Ann,

    Very insightful. Never really thought of it quite like that. It is disgusting.

    Good thing someone is willing to pick up the trash.

    Good thing someone is willing to audit the case.

    Good thing someone is willing to expose what is disgusting and clean up the mess.

  238. My God, they’ve all gone into the valence of the SP and are now fighting a war that doesn’t exist! This is so text book it’s unbelievable!!!

  239. Once I was traveling across the sky
    This lovely planet caught my eye
    And being curious I flew close by
    And non I’m caught here
    Until I die
    Until we die
    Learning to live together
    Learning to live together
    Learning to live together
    Till we die
    I lost my memory of where I’ve been
    We all forgot that se could fly
    Someday we’ll all change into peaceful man
    And we’ll return into the sky

  240. Markus, just because I believe some of the things Hubbard wrote are utter nonsense doesn’t mean I don’t find his larger body of work to be of any value.

    Crowley is considered by some to be an utter nutjob but that doesn’t stop many Wiccans and mystic groups finding value in his work. Throughout the ages, in fact, there are works acknowledged by many, despite the occasional failings of the author. Edison, for example, was accused of being a liar and a thief. Newton, depending on who you talk to, was a vicious loon.

    Oscar Wilde once said, “a critic should be taught to criticise a work of art without making reference to the personality of the author. This, in fact, is the beginning of criticism.” I believe this applies to art, science, philosophy, as well as here. Peace.

  241. GetTheConcept


    I absolutely cannot get enough of your insights into how Miscavige operates. This one about how he does “evals” gives me a huge dose of understanding, as does everything else you say about him. You are very specific and that’s why it really sheds the light. Thanks and please continue.


  242. Brilliant suggestion, Lynne! Tory, do it!

  243. Tony DePhillips

    I love that song.

  244. Tony DePhillips

    Nicely said Allen. 🙂

  245. Tony DePhillips

    HI Chris,
    You said: “The cult has thrown literally everything they’ve got to shut them down and it’s only served to clearly document that it ain’t gonna happen. Each bigger assault only results in a more embarrassing humiliation. It’s almost like the story won’t end until somehow, the writers of this demented reality show can figure out how to get dark yellow urine hilariously splashed onto David Miscavige’s screwed-down hairdo.”

    That was great writing!! Thanks.

  246. John Fennessey

    Jack, well said. Some find it so much easier to swing away wildly and indulge their lower nature or expound their ignorance They will never be able to count you in their number. +1

  247. Jezus! You would think that Vinnie could keep better time than that.

  248. Laura Ann and Ingrid,
    I would say the enforcement of a fixed viewpoint as the only one allowed and not only be thought but also the only allowed to be used as a stable datum. The person then can NEVER come up to pan-determinism, peaks at other-determinism and starts to fall back down scale from there. Now confused the “OT” starts looking around their world and it seems closer to total failure and total effect. It is so sad.

    Mosey shows the ability to rise above that, communicate as a being and not just spout out noise from their bank as the Golf Cart Robots are stuck in. This is Ground Zero for any being to rise above the group bank and that group of crabs in a bucket has no idea how to deal with one who just up and left the bucket, looked at the sun, smiles, and continues walking on down the trail.

    The free being is looking at the world as it’s a great day. The crab thinks it’s another day of keeping them in the bucket and feeding them BS for food. The crabs will someday realize the only hope they ever had was the smiling being that headed on up the trail to make things right.

    The entire future of what we can do with and in this subject to better the world for all is being seriously put into motion right here, right now and the great guys by the Water in southern Texas as setting a stellar example for all. I smile and have good wishes for all who are part of this.

  249. “Kill them with loving kindness, then give them a dose of reality”
    I like this one!

  250. Marty, this is ridiculous and very disingenuous. You re-wrote someone’s comment and then signed their name to it. That isn’t honest. Whether I agree with John or not, I find your actions to be unacceptable. Either post the whole thing or block the whole thing.

    If a person’s comment raises important points, post it in full and respond to it. If the person’s comment is immaterial, false or whatever, don’t post it.

    But don’t rewrite it yourself and then sign someone else’s name to it. That’s just dishonest.

  251. Tom Gallagher


    I for one can validate your policy and moderation. I visit here because of the quality of the communication. I ALWAYS feel a little more and sometimes a LOT more enlightened by these virtual friends.

    ESMB can often turn into something akin to mud wrestling and usually does. Real freedom comes with some lines painted on the sides of the road. That way at least you know where you’re going.

  252. Cindy Pinsonnault

    “The beauty of being out here is that you get to believe as you see fit. You can question and discuss and debate without fear of reprisal or “losing your eternity.”… As long as you are speaking out and helping other people learn the truth, I’ll be here — reading, commenting, agreeing and disagreeing as the conversations warrant.”

    This is true and should be true. One of the basic rights of the independent field should be the right to disagree. Without the ability to at least acknowledge other opinions and viewpoints, we risk devolving into an authoritarian single viewpoint enforcement similar to that of DM’s Co$.

    In the end, disagreeing over who did what and who should or shouldn’t be forgiven won’t get us very far. What’s important is what’s being done now, and how effective that is in moving people forward after escaping the suppression. A new set of fixes ideas isn’t an answer.

    This blog is interesting, exciting and freeing largely because of the broad commentary from independents, current church members, and a variety non-scns. And we’re seeing that freedom of thought is creating conversations that could never happen in Co$. And we’re seeing those conversations help people to renew their desire to train and audit. That’s moving forward.

  253. RJ

    Re. third dynamic engram running… A couple of those were “done” in our area around that time. One was handled in alignment with auditing tech and produced some understanding and relief. ( keeping in mind all the true data was not available to us from above) The second one was being done in a manner such as to invalidate anyone who did not agree with the preconceived “why” of those running it. It was being used as a whip to try to force those in attendance to “contribute more” or “join staff” etc. It was creating more charge than it was resolving. Our Mission Class VIII stepped in and put an end to it.

    Two different intentions, two different results.

    Eric S

  254. martyrathbun09

    I didn’t rewrite anything. Look before you launch.

  255. Lynne

    Yes… Some use their experiences to learn how to handle the universe more effectively… more pan-determinedly… (It takes more than a smattering of the ability to evaluate data accurately, in order to achieve this easily)…..,
    Others do not have, or use, the abilities necessary to evaluate data accurately and so they continue to make the same mistakes and cling to the same wrong “whys”.

    Eric S

  256. Tom Gallagher

    Dear Mosey and Marty,

    I would like bestow a commendation on you.

    You are real Freedom Fighters. The good kind.

  257. Margaret, Yes, NOTL has some amazing references!

    From ‘Notes On The Lectures’:

    “The characteristic point of this turmoil or turbulence, the engram
    of the group, is that it contains suppressed or out-of-sight
    information. If at any moment the auditor to the group suppresses
    information or colours it in any way, some of that engram is going to
    remain, and actually a situation is entered here where the engram is
    left in a state of restimulation where it can do more damage than it
    could have had it never been run. The auditor to the group must be
    composed of persons fully schooled in the ideals, rationale and ethic of
    the group, and whose integrities are not questioned by the group. The
    whole key-note of the group auditor is honesty and truth–uncoloured,
    unvarnished and unsuppressed data. In this way a good auditing job can
    be done. The auditor of the group is discovering what has been done to
    the group and is running it. There is no need of going over and over one
    of these engrams beyond exposing the information thoroughly and
    competently to the view of all and permitting all members of the group to discuss that information as they wish. The group itself may then decide upon certain actions, but so long as the group itself is doing the deciding and not an individual or a few individuals, no engram is created.

    The group will grow and prosper only insofar as it lacks engrams. It
    should not fear engrams; it should only fear the fact that engrams may
    not be discovered and fully processed.”

  258. Claudio Lugli

    Mosey for you! They definetly heard your train coming!!!


  259. Tom Gallagher

    By the way, POB’s golf cart squad might consider a personalized license plate for their buggy:

    OT H8

  260. Do not go diving in off the high platform until you yourself fill the pool with the fresh water you have to bring yourself. Don’t put the symbol “swimming pool” before the thing itself (you have to have water to swim in – the basin of the pool is not enough).

  261. Sapere-very well put!

  262. I see people on both sides and in the middle using symbols of things, instead of getting the idea that the goal of Scn, its highest aspiration, is not “a Scn” or “an OT” or “A Class VIII” or “a friend” or “an enemy” or “trust” or “mistrust” or anything else. Scn covers all of the above. The goal of Scn is YOU (whoever you are, whomever you choose at the moment to be). So it’s like a beautiful empty pool – just bring your own water.

  263. Restatement: the goal of Scn is to make an individual more themselves, to make “you” (whomever) more “you”. One should orient Scn to themselves, not the other way around. As a Texan might say about the Co$, “Big pool, no water.” A being is who he is at the moment because he chooses that, ideally.

  264. Exactly,

    This is how the tech gets perverted by ….questionable individuals.

    I didn’t get it so much in tech but in qual execs would try to “C/S” some case for some ulterior motive other than for the individuals own benefit.

  265. MM, I get what you say, and I knew Peeler back in the day. I’m glad he got out and away from it.
    But I want to comment on one statement of yours. It isn’t whether you “believe” in the tech. Believing is not in the equation. This is a misconception. You either know it or you don’t. If you think you knew it and applied it correctly and there were no or bad results, you didn’t do it right. I’m speaking for the red on white, auditing and training technology. It’s then simple to find out what you need to correct in your application and get good results next time.
    Unfortunately when Peeler was in there were never enough technical people to ensure everyone was sufficiently helped with any misapplication. I don’t think there *ever* was, actually, because less people would be getting fooled now if they truly knew the technology and had gotten good results with it when they started out or first arrived at the int base. More would have railed against alterations forced on the members.
    For myself, and a lot of others, I can say that the benefit I have received from correctly applied technology (both auditing and training others and receiving auditing and training) far far far outweighs other personality or administrative flaws or bad things I experienced. Until Miscavige moved up in the ranks.
    And it follows that not a heck of a lot of the good stuff happened to me while I was at the base. It happened before I got there and after I left.
    I have one suggestion for Peeler, and that would be to take a look at what he did not apply correctly back in his day. It may be hard for him at this point to look in the mirror, but that’s what he’s gotta do. That’s what anyone has to do when they are very wrapped up in something that does not resolve. When you can finally look at how you had a responsibility in it, you instantly have a way out.

  266. Sapere Aude,
    You made my day! ml, Laura

  267. Sapere Aude, well said. That’s a fine example of what the Data Series is capable of. It’s not an easy thing to express how the application of how that tech works, as it’s application is self cleaning and self evaluative. The peculiar thing about it from my observation is that when the ideal scene of almost anything is closely monitored all of man’s foibles come to pass. It would be impossible to use the Data Series for non survival activities, for if you tried you would disappear in to the attitude so fast that destruction to all opposing you would become the only immediate option.
    That’s why I reckon the Data Series appears dificult to learn and even more difficult to apply – it points almost immediately to true survival, fixed ideas and other determinism have a major problem with survival in that survival encompases CHANGE.
    This golf carter mentailty is the perfect example of the fixed idea – ridges hate change, no matter how stupid it makes them look.

  268. Yeah, me too! Thanks for the right reference, RJ.

  269. LMAO!

    They couldn’t buy worse PR than these SQB videos. Who would ever want to get to the top of the Cult of Miscavige Bridge after seeing these OT VIII’s? They think they’re OT because they bought an OT cult certificate?

  270. Right, you didn’t “rewrite” you just “edited” it. You say “potayto” and I say “potahto”. Semantics. You CHANGED what someone wrote.

    That’s fine, just don’t sign their name to it. That’s all.

  271. That’s a good idea. At least it’s fun to think about.

    Certainly would get a lot of attention.

  272. “They don’t sue people for libel or slander. They repeatedly sued people for telling the *truth*.”

  273. Wow! I have been incredibly busy the last week and only had a glimpse of the “series” until today.

    Mosey, you are a gem. Excellent contrast: Marty is auditing while these morons are in a golf cart looking like idiots and acting seriously crazy.

    That us the difference. Those who do Scientology own it.

    Marty, I didn’t catch the Being There ref until I read the comments. I was thinking who the heck is Rafael? Cracked me up!

    As for Bert-You are a true Mensch.

  274. Nomnom — Wow … thanks!!

  275. Off the fence.

    Strange earth creatures, I am visiting “Off the fence” from a nearby galaxy.
    Where we come from, if there are two opposing sides we usually disagree with each other before we fight. Here you agree with most everything, but still the side with all the buildings seems to want to fight the ones who were, (and are) the experts of the subject of which you fight. Lets see, both sides want peace on earth, no insanity, no criminals, where able people can live out their lives productively with happiness and A.R.C. Both sides want to see that L.R.H’s tech is applied correctly so that people can get better and more free. ( By the way, saw LRH at the cosmos bar and grill, Andromeda galaxy, He’s doing well). So you both want the same thing, and you both want to go about it the same way. Hmmm?, I’m wondering how heated this battle would get if you actually disagreed on anything significant.
    Strange earth people.

  276. Licensed professionals are regulated by state boards. You can file a complaint with the state board that they are licensed in. This applies for both Private Investigators and Attorneys.

    I believe you have certainly gained enough evidence to bring a complaint against Le Blow’s license; and you may be able to also file a complaint against whichever attorney has hired him.

    It does not go far enough, but it would be a start with 0 dollars invested on your part.

  277. Laura Ann and Carol-So RIGHT !!!! This is the classic-don’t confuse me with the facts, I’ve made up my mind—more accurately, my mind has been made up for me.

  278. “The characteristic point of this turmoil or turbulence, the engram
    of the group, is that it contains suppressed or out-of-sight
    information. If at any moment the auditor to the group suppresses
    information or colours it in any way, some of that engram is going to
    remain, and actually a situation is entered here where the engram is
    left in a state of restimulation where it can do more damage than it
    could have had it never been run.”


    This pretty much explains what happened after the FBI’s chain saw massacre in ’77 of the GO.

    A lot of information was suppressed, colored or was conveniently placed “out-of-sight”.

    As far as I know there was never any B of I or postmortem ever done on this huge intelligence failure.

    This was followed by the Franchise Follies AKA the infamous Mission Holders Conference when the Finance Dictator Wendel Reynolds and his team “moved in” like locust and again no explanation was given except that more than your average number that is above 2 1/2 % happened to be “SPs”.

    Basically the same pattern was followed all the way to the top of the Org board where the coup that took over even claimed that many of Ron’s personal aids were in fact “suppressive”.

    To say that the Ol’man was distracted at the time by Flynn and vultures like Armstrong and his estranged son FKA Nibs, LRH Jr NKA Ron DeWolf and much of the law enforcement and intelligence community would be an understatement.

    This 3d engram is followed by a secondary when Ron dropped his body and we have Earl Cooley up on the stage claiming that he received some kind of telepathic communication ala Bill Robertson that the Church was in good hands now like an Allstate commercial.

    Moving on.

    We have much of the original Grade Chart vanish right before our eyes as the original OT Levels are replaced with “New” OT Levels.

    I mean they didn’t actually come out and say that the earlier OT Levels were “old” so I guess in their minds it wasn’t really a TECH DEGRADE.

    Then we find that there were supposedly “errors” in all the basic books and even the tech volumes.

    Yet David Miscavige and the good people at RTC “corrected” all these “errors” after offing Loyal Officers 1 & 2.

    So now we know that according to KSW we Have the Correct Technology or so he says until 16 years later he basically says the same thing.

    However before the Glorious Second Revision revenue agent Dave sells out to the IRS while proclaiming “Victory” and introduces “Other Tech” in violation of HCOPL 31 May 1968, FO 800 Scientology Technology by introducing the “Golden Age of Tech”.

    Of course he figures we’re too blind to notice this because supposedly all this time “the blind have been leading the blind”.

    Funny at the time. If I have of been in LA instead of Phoenix at the time I would have been tempted to slap some sense into that little cretin for giving such an evaluative, invalidative *wrong why* (you could say C/S Series 78 was in full force) but all I could hope for at the time was that the little rodent would be struck down by a lightning bolt from heaven or maybe explode like Katanga in the movie version of Ian Fleming’s ‘Live and Let Die’.

    But I digress. 🙂

    Regarding the 3d engram.

    All I can say is Miscavige is a perfect example of one in operation.

  279. TRs retread for the OT 8 after that.

    scary shit.

    God bless you Mosey. I look forward to communicating with you one day. You have a beautiful soul and your tough. Nice combo.


  280. Now who’s the squirrel?..Now who’s the Scientologist?…Marty & Mosey you two set a perfect example for all of us who may have to confront these ass clowns sometime, somewhere down the road. The evidence is overwhelming in proving the COS is criminal, run by criminals and attended by criminals. Time the FBI enacted the RICO Act, so more real Scientologists can get busy helping people with true LRH technology.

    This cycle of ABSURD JUVENILE THEATER needs to stop.

  281. Sherb

    I want to present a little something here for you. Forgive me if I am out of line.

    I had a realization recently that Data Evaluation is something that we do every day. I found that it is not some esoteric thing that is “difficult to learn and even more difficult to apply”. It is the stuff of every day living, and the basis for almost any success at “solving” any difficulty that you have ever had.

    For example: If you were to find water on the floor of your kitchen, you would likely use some form of “data evaluation” to resolve the “situation” (departure from the ideal scene. You know that in an ideal world(Ideal scene) there would not be water on the floor.) Now you search the environment (kitchen and environs) to see if there are other “outpoints”, like a wet ceiling, water coming from under the sink cabinet, shards of broken glass, a cowering dog, etc. You would use this initial investigation to establish where it would be most useful to look for more “things that shouldn’t be” (outpoints). You find a leaky pipe, or a hole in the roof, etc and go “aha! That is where it is coming from”. (“the WHY”) and come up with a “handling”, using available resources (you might have to go buy something).
    If you were correct in your “data evaluation”, got the correct “Why” and came up with a correct “handling” that “situation” should now be resolved.

    Also, I find that this is reflected in the Danger Condition Handling that you find in the Ethics book. It is at this point that you would use Data evaluation, and your success with Data Evaluation will dictate your success with handling “Danger.”

    Just some thoughts.

    Eric S

  282. Tom,Cowboy Poet, Jim

    What a great play guys. 1…2…3 BAM,BAM,BAM!
    Gotta love thetans at play!

    Eric S

  283. plainoldthetan

    “This may be a bit off post but I am seeing something really strange with the churchies. There is a grayness about them, lifelessness and a lack of ability to communicate clearly, succinctly with little or no comm lag.”

    Good observation.

    There’s a drill you do on the SHSBC where you learn to recognize the grayness of a person’s skin. The grayness has to do with where in the process of going out-list a person is. It’s very technical, but the reference is lecture 6301C15 R2-12 DEAD HORSES.

  284. Very impressive Mosey. You ARE a warrior princess!

    This blog represents freedom. It helps spread the word that Scientology exists outside of the realm and control of David Miscavige.

    He must be really worried about that particular message getting out.

  285. Gato,
    I had a golf cart and personal motorcycle at the Int Base as POB in about mid to late ’90s refused to dine at the central mess hall (MCI) where everyone else ate and main galley was set up. POB would only eat at his office area in the upper Villas at the time or personal Lounge in the Lower Villas. The Villas were across Highway 79 and uphill so motorized transport was needed and no status was invoked personally as much as necessity to get the job done.

  286. Good grief ! That is even worse! David Miscavige is using a senior citizen to fight his battles! It would not surprise me if he was prompted , drilled, and walked through all of the mischief he is creating by O.S.A. staff. This is their front lines warrior? An elderly man and a woman sent to Texas to fight DM’s battles. And they are clearly uninformed and pumped full of propaganda and false information. And it is a criminal offense of COB and The Board of Directors to mislead and misrepresent in their duties and trusts. The fact that DM is hiding behind these fragile people spells it all out. How degrading. Has DM no honor, pride, or self respect? And these Martyr’s throwing themselves on Marty’s lawn is a repelling , repelling display of all that can go wrong in Scientology. Ed, if you are reading this, for God’s sake go home and stop letting the Sea Org pimp you into being a criminal. You are being ordered to be a TROUBLE SOURCE! How wrong is that? Those people are NOT out to make the world better place. They only want to rule the world.

  287. Tory Christman

    Great Idea! Actually one anonymous guy DID have a thing to do exactly that….but somehow it would not “Show” on their plastic walls. (Knowing them, they probably got some reflector spray).
    If anyone reads this who does have this tech, please call me as I do have another idea, that will be even better. Best ~~
    (818) 588-3044

  288. Tory Christman

    I agree, Mike—your information helps a great deal.

    Since I escaped out in 2000, I’ve seen them in action, and wondered
    since they cancelled my van to the airport (July of 2000) and had the VP of Scientology at LAX, telling me: “We know where you are going, and you are NOT going there”…what the Hell are these people doing?

    Finally I get some of how this sick machine works. It may have been written about before, but I thank you for going over it, again. One thing I’ve learned in 11 years of being out, is MANY things need to be re-written, re-spoken about.

    Thanks and yes, please continue.


  289. Hi Eric,
    I was there at that time and agree with your analysis.

    It was a dog and pony show which was so obviously a white-wash of actual events.

    This blog, tied in with Abuse at the Top, Blown for Good, Inside Scientology et. al. is the closest thing to a group engram session a guy could ever want. Lots of “confront of evil” needed, but it’s getting confronted and bank is as-ising.


  290. I love Mosey. She told the old squirrel buster the truth! Me thinks it hurt.

    I am concerned about the censorship of John Peeler’s comments. Unfortunately, those posting responses did not have the benefit of reading his complete post. Sure, it’s your blog, but I have to agree with William. Either block or post the entire thing. It’s really not fair to edit his post.

  291. And Ed, they cannot rule the world. In case you haven’t noticed there isn’t one f*%&$%g Sea Org member down there. They are depending on the public to resolve the matter. Again, pushing the burden on the public. If they are so God Damned OT why are they making every problem in Scientology go onto the public domain for solutions? “Buy us a ship so we can deliver OT8” “Buy us a building so we can deliver super power” “When 10,000 people have finished OT7 we can release OT8” “When more people join staff we can deliver Super Power” “When more people donate only then can we have an IDEAL ORG”. Jesus! I only did staff status one and two and I can see how wrong this is. What the hell is up with you people on the other side of this fence? Having some issues with inconvenient truths?

  292. Right on Tom! This blog is effective and achieves it’s purpose because of Marty’s moderation policies. It is an interesting and uplifting experience to read it, because it deals in specifics.

    Posts like Peeler’s “I mean you guys ran that shit for so long…” Is a generality. Not an ounce of time, place, form and event in it. And if Peeler did have a specific grievance with Marty, how appropriate would it actually be, for him to post it here?
    I think, not at all.
    That would be a private matter best dealt with back channel, by email or phone or a personal meeting to clear the air.

    I wouldn’t be coming here if this were a forum for airing personal recriminations towards Marty, Mike R., or any of the others. There are daytime TV soaps and Gerry Springer type ambush shows for those who have a taste for such, that’s not what this blog is for.

    And to Allen’s question, my answer is similar. Even if someone had knowledge of a specific incident of a past discreditable action by
    Marty, this blog is not the place to air it. Isn’t that exactly what the
    Miscavige cult does – air private matters publicly as a “dead agent” tactic? I completely agree that folks who come here to “dead agent” Marty and LRH should get short shrift. They have an obvious axe to grind and are not looking at both the positives and negatives of the person.

    As Ron wrote in his HCOB and article on “The Social Personality”:

    “This differentiation is easily done and no test should ever be constructed which isolates only the antisocial. On the same test must appear the
    upper as well as lower ranges of man’s actions.”

    “A test that declares only antisocial personalities without also being able to identify the social personality would be itself a suppressive test.
    It would be like answering “Yes” or “No” to the question “Do you still beat your wife?” Anyone who took it could be found guilty. While this
    mechanism might have suited the times of the Inquisition, it would not suit modern needs.”

    “The identification or labeling of an antisocial personality cannot be done honestly and accurately unless one also, in the same examination of the
    person, reviews the positive side of his life.”

    I cannot help but question the intent of those who continually bring up
    generalities about some hypothetical “shit” from Marty or Mike’s pasts, without acknowledging the positive sides of their lives, especially what they’ve done and are doing since leaving the CoS.

    Those kind of “critics” haven’t done a Doubt formula in PT.

  293. Mosey, it is awesome how you Tell It Like It Is! Truth really does go right through armor plate.

  294. Hi Eric,
    No you’re not out of line. Indeed every day life uses data evaluation and whys and I feels it’s more common sense, logic and training patterns that dictate the ‘common things’.
    One can find association (Logics) with anything if one tries, ask any lawyer.
    What I see amazing about the Data Series is that it is like a formula applied to monitor any activity and direct it to the ideal scene but it goes way beyond the MEST computation of survival with its capability of directing goals; things like admin scales, ethics and even goals like obtaining the state of OT or running a corporation, it’s a tool of application. Used in conjunction with processing and training it has the power of taking a humanoid way beyond that state. A thetan is a self contained interactive system, operating with other self contained interactive systems in the playing field of MEST. LRH said, certainty in all three universes must be obtained for certainty not data is knowledge. That’s a sky high concept and the tools supplied by the Data Series sure helps weed out the case stuff being thrown about, like implant goals, certain ‘religions’ etc.
    It depends a lot on what goals and ideal scene one is forwarding, the tool of the Data Series truly is a “one size fits all” if ya got the kahonies to put it in certain directions…
    Just my take on ’em.

  295. Mark,

    A “Severe Reality Adjustment” (SRA) is nothing but an effort to overwhelm and restimulate with sufficient force and entheta that hypnotic commands may then be introduced into the target. It is one of the most grotesque pieces of squirrel tech Davie McSavage ever created.

    Neither Mark nor Mosey have or would ever resort to such a thing.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  296. We also had a gas powered golf cart to pick up and deliver mail at LEC (LRH external comm) in the early 80’s and that was more fun as it had a lot of power!

  297. Tom Gallagher

    I guess we could say that the future is now.
    Miscavige, the sawed-off sociopath, won’t last through December. . . .

  298. Sure, SInar, I getcha. Guys like you and Clive and Estates people had them too to get the job done. I’m referring to the Muriel or Cathy or Ken-chauffered carts that buzzed VIPs around on a predetermined route to be sure they got only what they were supposed to see, while being made to think they were so special and how privledged they were to see how “cool” the base was. Beep beep, get outta the way, you peon pedestrian! 🙂

  299. David Miscavige.

    Ser fac: I can fool everybody –> events afterpassing of thge founder

    Se fac: I can get away with murder –> Lissa Mc Pherson and evry other person that died by the COS after that.

  300. JS,
    You can read more about the guy – Ed Bryan – at:

  301. martyrathbun09

    Good observation CD.

  302. martyrathbun09

    That is exactly how the cultists act down here. Good observation GR.

  303. martyrathbun09

    Oh, please.

  304. martyrathbun09

    Bullshit. I gave HIM an opportunity to respond by doing so. Let me guarantee you, he can’t compose a composed, intelligent communication in response that wouldn’t get blocked for containing too much generalized entheta and lies to waste the time trying to disinfect. Dude, you need to read the history of this blog (including Peeler’s attempts to derail it) to understand. Then, you’d offer an informed opinion. Your opinion is uninformed.

  305. ESMB has been hosting Marty’s blog over there for some time. Practically every post goes up there now minutes after it appears here.
    I have had my posts deleted and edited over there, it is monitored too.
    I’m not bawling about it. The headliner mistake is that it is termed “X Scientologists” and a fair amount of the people are not or never were Scientologists. I don’t know how they got into the mix but they are clearly very fixated on the Scientology arena in some kind of police department valence. The false reports and slander are tolerated and even encouraged. Marty, Mike and I have all had entire threads dedicated to fairgaming us over there. They are either vicious or crying about some wound. The biggest screamers and complainers are former OSA volunteer spies. You can speak the truth over there until you are blue in the face and it false on deaf ears. In fact, truth seems to enturbulate or threaten them. They love to hate. It parallels an OSA Op.

  306. Moneca – Its not off post at all. I’ve seen much the same for 30 years. A gradual decline in case states. Its just inconceivable to me that such as Allender and Baillie could attest to OT8 in an ethical organization.
    Back in 1982 there were hit lists of the people to be gotten rid of from the Sea Org. I recall a tape from the 60s where LRH talked about how the types of people who wouldn’t fit in with a conformist society were dumped on Earth.
    The Indie scene seems to consist similarly of those who don’t fit in with a conformist “church”.
    As far as blueberries go you should go up in the mountains and taste the fresh ones the day after a heavy rain. But such as the golf cart crew will possibly not experience having the leisure to do that in this lifetime. If they are upstat they might get a burger and if they are downstat then they eat beans and rice.

  307. “Ex Scientologist’s Motivatoring Board”

    Very funny Sherb 🙂

    Sorta like “Alt Revisionism Scientology”.

    Or the “Obviously Caved in Badly & Motivatorish Board” 🙂

    My fav was Veritas.

    Especially the Anonymous Mailings (years before a bunch of guys wearing Guy Fawkes Masks showed up on their door steps) and the “Squirrel Watcher”.

    Some good people come over here from there like Tory ,Chuck , even Alan AKA Alanzo and quite a few others that I’d consider friends.

    Remember they at one time were the only game in town when confronted with Int Mismanagement and Lil’ Squirrel’s BS before Marty came along with his blog.

    Sometimes the only place to get accurate intel in the “age of furry management” when they were saying things like greater expansion in the last five years than in the last 50.

    Sure then why does ASHO only have 2 people on the Briefing Course and they haven’t made a Class VIII since the elder Bush was Prez?

    Emma’s got her public and Marty has his.

    I know I’m not saying anything you don’t already know Sherb.

    Thankfully Marty has put up a blog for people like us who love the tech but currently hate the “Organization”….if ya can call it such…can go to.

  308. Mike – I think you are severely in need of an SRA!
    From PDC tape 23:
    “When we talk about this universe we’re talking about energy. The only
    way an individual can be held in to this universe is by a conviction that he
    cannot handle energy. Because this is a universe full of energy, and is
    composed only of energy, which operates in a thing called MEST universe space. If you cannot handle energy in its fullest extent don’t think you can be free of this universe or any other one.
    Force begets force, and he who lives by the sword will die by one. I
    promise you! But, funny thing is, you have to be able to have enough force to use an unlimited quantity of force, before you can pass over into a higher band of ethics. One cannot retreat from and cower back from force, under any pretext whatsoever, and still have a beingness above the level of this universe. “

  309. John – Marty and Mike are not the heads of the Independent Scientology movement. The Independents are independent.
    We, unlike you, are free beings 🙂

  310. So will I.
    Great point.

  311. Sherb

    I’m totally with you on all that… I’m likin’ the way you think.


  312. LOL!! That’s them, to a tee! Too goofy…
    Thanks for the laugh.

  313. Scott Campbell

    Axe handle?

  314. Helenfriend

    I’m sorry but that advice sounds more like “sit down and wait” or “just pretend it is not there and maybe it will go away”. I DO get what you are saying here, but it does not seem like a very causative or “proactive” stance. Marty and Mosey seem to be doing this at CAUSE. I do not see it as “fruitless”. I would not wish for them to go to EFFECT. Right now David Miscavige and the people he sends out to harass are totally at effect. They sit around waiting for M&M to DO something so that they can “go into action mode” (read “reaction mode”). The “golf cart gang” are total pawns in this siege. Marty and Mosey “control the board” at this point.

    I do not see how this is the time “to do nothing”.

    And as to “Why are you even talking to them?” I would cite the data on communication being the universal solvent. More communication, rather than less, is indicated in resolving disagreements.

    My two cents.

    Eric S

    Eric S

  315. Scott Campbell


    Nice D/A.

    Before any further pronouncements regarding the validity of LRH’s body of work, I would also recommend that Markus listen to study tape 5, “STUDY: EVALUATION OF INFORMATION” (11 August 1964) in order to find out how to sort out the wheat from the chaff regarding any subject.

  316. Scott Campbell

    The viewpoint PL…

  317. Marty, you disagree?

  318. martyrathbun09

    Good point TO

  319. Scott Campbell

    Good points, Michael.

    This whole thread reminds me of times when I have apologized and made amends to someone for some offense – and yet the person still continued to “hold it over my head” for months or even years afterward.

    Eventually, I just blow up at them and say, “Fuck you. I already apologized and made up for that. If your going to continue to hold that over me, I’m not going to associate with you anymore.”

    That usually knocks out that kind of behavior. If it doesn’t, the person wasn’t worth my time anyway.

  320. Scott Campbell

    Ellipses indicate deletions not in script…

  321. Without the effort to overwhelm and crush someone spiritually, I don’t see that you have an “SRA”.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  322. Valkov –

    This blog’s *central theme* is the airing past discreditable actions publicly. But I understand what you are saying.

    I think.

  323. “Marty, this is why there are people who hesitate to trust what’s going on with you and Mike Rinder being the defacto heads of the Independent Scientology movement.”
    What people John? The kool aid drinkers who cannot see, or think for themselves? And more importantly, who cannot differentiate? I suggest you come up to present time and LOOK John. Why? Because I think you are one of the “people” you refer to, who hesitate to trust what’s going on with Marty and Mike. Forget the past dude and look at what’s going on in PT.

  324. Les

    Exactly my thoughts on this. These independent “forums” are hugely valuable in getting at the truth. The multiple viewpoint aspect can expose data that was unavailable to you and yet was putting you at effect, because of the “unknowness”.

    We are potentially “auditing each other” to some degree, those who seek the truth, and those who offer it. Others with other intentions tend to be quite obvious, and do not really derail the process much, and they are also good for increasing one’s abilities to spot tones etc.

    My involvement here has certainly had good results for me.

    Eric S

  325. Oh man, I really needed that bit of aesthetics right now.

  326. Scott Campbell


  327. You don’t get it.
    Or I don’t.

    I understand what you’re saying and it sounds reasonable, but I think there is an aspect to it you are not seeing.

  328. It seems to me that they are incapable of sane action. Even actions they probably think are sane and correct are infact wrong and insane because their operating basis is insane. Therefore every action they (Miscavige, Lebow, et al) take is insane and destructive to them. Therefore, any action, or “reaction” as you correctly put it that can be gotten from them is damaging. At this point literally every action is a foot-bullet.

  329. Yeah, they have really bad indicators.

  330. Marty, I’ve been watching your site for 4-5 months now since a friend let me know what was going on. This is the first time I’ve commented. I want to say that you are doing a fantastic job at drawing DM & cronies out. I really admire your guts & determination. I know that you know what you’re doing and you are very effective. You are truly leading the charge to eject DM & re-create scientology the way it was supposed to be. I’m always excited to see what the next post holds. I’d also like to acknowledge Mosey. She’s a smart & gutsy lady!

  331. Jethro Bodine

    John – I think Mike and Marty have come clean on all the “big stuff”, like the Lisa McPherson cover up, the Int Base beatings, the false imprisonments, the espionage and use of PIs, etc. I know that some people in Anonymous feel there is more to be told, but frankly, they haven’t offered any real proof that Mike and Marty are still sitting on some kind of big withhold. I think they’ve actually done a lot to expose the abuses that they were involved with at the time, and that has made up the damage for a lot of stuff they did. Marty in particular has said that he did a lot of stuff that he’s not proud of when he worked directly for Miscavige. Just as you, as the Int Base Ethics Officer, did a lot of stuff you weren’t proud of. So, let’s not take a too judgemental attitude toward them; eventually all will be known. It looks to me like you’re holding some kind of grudge against Mike and Marty – why is that? Have you come clean on all your misdeeds? Leaving a cult is a slow process; it takes more than just a physical departure to leave the cult mindset. Mike and Marty are private citizens and don’t have to publicly apologize to anybody unless they want to. Personally, I hope they continue their “cult busting” actions – Miscavige’s blood pressure must be 300/150 by now.

  332. wannabeclear

    I didn’t see what John Peeler’s comment said before it was edited, but I do trust that you didn’t edit it to change the meaning, just removed some inflammatory language. Why bother changing the meaning when you could just get rid of it completely. I actually think it’s commendable that you were willing to leave up the salient portion of the comment, despite the fact that it’s critical of you.

    Let’s face it — this is your playground and your rules. You are under no obligation to post anything that you don’t want to post. This isn’t a public space, it’s your space that you choose to share. If you wanted to only post comments that agreed with you 100%, that would be your prerogative — it wouldn’t be as interesting, but it would still be your decision to make.

    One of the reasons that I continue to visit (and sometimes comment) here is because you provide a very interesting perspective on a subject about which I feel strongly. It’s a perspective that is different than mine and as I’ve said, one with which I often disagree. However, you offer a lot of information that has been unavailable elsewhere and just by your willingness to speak out and take the heat, you’ve helped a lot of people. The behemoth of Co$ has been able to stay afloat because it had the ability to control the flow of information through fear and intimidation. Now that they’ve come against people who know exactly how they operate and are unwilling to be cowed by it, the beast is slowly crumbling.

  333. Sherb:

    I don’t at all appreciate this sort of divisive factional name-calling between the boards. I post over on ESMB occasionally in some (perhaps foolish) effort to keep the OSA minions from keeping the people there continually restimulated.

    Right now, in present time, there are OSA socks running Black Scientology on those guys to keep them stirred up against anyone who might be a threat to McSavage. At least that is my opinion.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  334. Marty clearly pointed out that it had been edited and stated why. Your accusing him of “rewriting” it is disingenuous and dishonest. This isn’t semantics. It’s you accusing someone of something that isn’t true.

  335. Tony Dephillips

    I don’t think Mark meant “severe reality adjustment ” in the way you seem to have taken it. It was used as a compliment.

  336. Yeah I hear you. I dropped ESMB sometime back and can’t even be bothered to monitor it. But I do (or use to) know most of the major players who post on it. To witness such a swing of viewpoint, some were even PCs and students of mine is quite a revelation in the power of bank.
    To blame the gun and let the shooter go is pretty mindlessly stupid.
    Like, who wouldn’t have wanted to be in LRHs Briefing course with him and have gotten their case C/Sd by him along with your co auditor twin.
    True Scientology speaks its own language – it falls on death ears on ESMB and is rejected in Radical Scn.
    The Ground Zero name on this thread is very apt.

  337. Brilliant synopsis!

  338. Mosey is a god send. Where did Marty ever find her?

  339. “All religions descend into solidity instead of up into the lightness of the wind.”

    Very true.

    I’m looking forward to more wisdom from LP69.

  340. Al,

    You may be right, but I don’t think that’s exactly this blog’s “central theme”. If it were, we’d all be sitting around like at an AA meeting and telling each other our degraded stories , like “Before I saw the light and blew from the kult, I used to get drunk on Koolaide and was doing some really shitty things to people, for example I…..”

    But that’s not what we’re doing. You don’t come in here and itemize discreditable actions of your own that you might have committed before you saw the light and blew, and no-one else is doing that here either. Why expect Marty to do so?

    I see the purpose of this blog as having to do with getting as many as possible obnotions(obnoses)(actual viewpoints, not just opinions), about what the CoS is/has been actually doing, as opposed to what it says it is/has been doing, because what “it” says tends to be more or less pure Bullshit. And the Bullshit is coming straight down from the top level of management. Management orders the smoke and mirrors to be set up and put in motion, all the while saying there are no smoke and mirrors…

    That said, there are still a lot of very decent people in the CoS, plus the new innocent ones being roped in by the idealistic PR talk and hard-sell. Which we are more and more clearly realizing IS just propaganda, because the upper management’s intentions are completely contrary to the ideals and goals new people are sold. And existing well-meaning die-hard staff and public have failed to confront the actual scene of the CoS, they are failing to see through the facade Management presents to them and the world, of being an uplifting religious organization.

    So another “theme”or purpose of this blog might be to bring into the sunshine of public view, what today’s CoS is actually all about, and that it is actually a personality cult like North Korea with David Miscavige as it’s focus, as well as a materialistic money-grubbing operation, more than it is a spiritual organization.

    Over the past two years, this is some of the picture that has emerged about what the CoS actually is in PT.

    The essential point is that this picture is not one person’s invention or hypothesis, but the result of many individuals contributing their actual specific experiences and observations, not necessarily just theoretical speculations.

    Marty may have more to say about the central “theme” of this blog, but It hink he has already said his reason for having it is an appication of the “multiple viewpoint system”.

    I don’t know what else he would say, but he might say that the blog has no other pre-determined “theme”; that any “theme(s)” that are apparent now have emerged as a result of the data that has been contributed here by the many individuals who have pooled their experiences of Scientology in and out of the CoS, here on this blog.


    Don’t know whether all that clarifies anything at all……! 🙂

  341. Thanks Ingrid, as usual I am flying by the seat of my pants and it’s good to know I am not completely off the wall! (yet.)

  342. Just look at the VFP of the Org on any Org Board: “well trained students and thoroughly audited PCs”. Or to put it another way from HCO PL 31 Jan 1983 “The ONLY reason Orgs exist is TO SELL AND DELIVER MATERIALS AND SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC AND GET IN PUBLIC TO SELL AND DELIVER TO. THE OBJECT IS TOTALLY FREED CUSTOMERS!”

    That is, or rather should be, the ONLY reason Orgs exist. Was that way once too, as I recall.

    Everything else is redundant/ superfluous/ irrelevant/ distraction/ useless/ destructive or to put it another way, the IAS and GAT.

  343. Brilliant observation Ingrid

  344. Jason, I’ve watched your amazing interview many times. When you say you get it now, do you mean you have answered your own question in that interview of “what the fuck does anybody get out of it? Is it a power hard on or what?” (paraphrased).

  345. It has been SOP for INT management since the coupe.

  346. Awesome song!

  347. “You are truly leading the charge to eject DM & re-create scientology the way it was supposed to be.”

    I’d rather see Scientology be reformed to something better.

    If Marty was merely trying to takeover the CoS, then the weight of the organization would inevitably drag it back down to craziness. Insulating oneself among a bunch of zealots does not improve one’s reality with the world at hand.

    I think that what he’s doing right now is probably the ideal scene. It’s just the auditor and the PC, with no third party to interfere. There’s no one pushing for stats. There’s no one regging for money to buy some building that isn’t needed. There’s no heiarchy to suppress other people’s efforts when they present a genuine alternative to the brand of religion offered.

    I think LRH left in place a whole bunch of policies that have led to its present state. Have they been applied correctly? Probably not. But on the whole, there are a significant number of policies that are better phased out to better match Scientology’s code of ethics, society’s common mores, and the age of the Internet.

    An international church with a Sea Org, RPF, disconnection, Fair Game, etc., is not what Scientology needs. Scientology is most beneficial, and least harmful, in a one-on-one setting.

  348. Thank you so much for this reference. Wow! This explains so much of what has happened, both to us as a group, and to me, individually! I have been the effect of so much suppressed information. I just had a big giant realization about why I got declared. I had information on the past histories of persons in the group, which these people were trying to suppress, (major giant withholds) and they had to get rid of me before I revealed too much. I had told one person in the group of the past of the group leader, a former homosexual, and wow! next thing i know I got declared. They were counting on Disconnection to keep their dirty little secrets from public view. Ah, the power of not wanting to reveal ones’s past! Thus a whole new group engram was created, or continued, and now that group is not doing well! I never realized that this was the Why of my declare. There were a lot of “reasons” given, but this is the one that actually caused the situation to be so urgent! They had to get me off of the lines before I told anybody else!

    David Miscavige does the same thing. He declares people, or puts them in the “Hole”, who know of his wrongdoings, gets them off of the lines, and then uses Disconnection to keep his secrets from public view. No wonder he hates Marty so much! Marty is relentless in continuing to expose Miscavige’s dirty little, and not so little, secrets. When you finally tell all, if that is possible, Marty, will he then leave you alone? Is he attacking you because of the next possible thing you might reveal? You keep revealing the data causing the group engram, and the Liar and the Cheater can’t stand it! But the group engram is dissipating! Carry on, in your relentless manner! The rest of us are having case gain! And, moving on up a little higher!
    Lots o’ love,
    Catherine von Ach

  349. True that you can send very strong messages by engaging them like Mosey and posting it on you tube. It can go viral and well documented mainstream media may pick it up. The value of getting the right messages out with proper impingement can’t be overestimated but don’t expect getting through to a NCG case. That said, your flows should indeed be in that direction.

  350. You go, girl!! Tell ’em how it is! For a while I called the Church, the Church of Stopology! Stopping the state of OT is what they do best!

  351. Indeed Michael, you are entitled to not appreciate anything you like and I can have that. However, I was ridiculed pretty persistently for anything I mentioned pro LRH on ESMB and very much so the wins and reality I have, all by a number of regular posters on that board who give no comm lag on ridicule.
    Frankly if OSA minions have that much power over there to keep it continually restimulated as you claim, why play in their garden? Are OSA agents anyone with an opposing gripe now?
    Having to defend every postitive statement on such a board is not my idea of somewhere to make friends or feel safe.

  352. What I love best about Marty and Mosey: they tell it like it is — simple, straight, to the point. None of these jokers investigate and the only ones who are suppressive are the ones out in the road, wearing loony cult T-shirts, riding a golf cart, doing loony things daily, who have crossed the threshold of insanity in an effort TO STOP and TO UNMOCK. Casablanca Tejas is ground zero for the future of Scientology… and it ain’t goin’ to be no Alamo.

  353. right then. go out there, fight with them. holler in the street, make them take more pictures of faces contorted with anger, twisting the truth. Throw fuel on the fire. Their cause=Make Martys life a living hell. The effect=marty and his wife get frazzled and go out and holler at them in the street. Neighbors see. Freaky cultists sit in their little hotel room rubbing their hands togetherwith glee saying “oh goody! It’s working! see how rattled we got him today?”
    An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind.

  354. “True Scientology speaks its own language – it falls on death ears on ESMB and is rejected in Radical Scn.”

    Good line Sherb.

    Pretty much covers it in 25 words or less.

  355. Mark A. Baker

    What people besides yourself hesitate to trust what’s going on with Marty and Mike? …

    I’m not John, but I can think of quite a few people who don’t trust either Mike or Marty one bit. The principle reason for the distrust being their respective failures to FULLY acknowledge their lengthy careers involving the suppression of the rights of others and support of the criminal activities of the management of the church of scientology.

    Despite the many criminal abuses each has previously engaged in and supported I AM willing to accept that they have both BEGUN a path of change. Yet the hostility with which the MRs STILL greet many of those with unpleasant truths to tell about L. Ron Hubbard & the church of scientology is not at all reassuring; especially in regard to a reassurance of their individual conversions from their pasts ill-conceived loyalties.

    BOTH are entitled to a measure of good will for their attempts to change, but NEITHER has yet to earn a renewal of TRUST.

  356. Karry Campbell

    Alright Mosey, you go girl!

    Thank you for connecting the dots correctly. Well done for getting the air cleaned between you and Mr. Leahy publicly. Great interviews.

    Love to you all!!!

  357. I don’t appreciate that John Wheeler is over here working to shift the tide and set Marty up as a target on his own blog when he has already started a new “fairgame Marty” thread on ESMB:

  358. And now he’s managed to create conflict over here between people when we clearly need each other’s support.

  359. Hobson you’re a hoot.

    Ubiquitous “OSA Agents” stirring up the natives at ESMB?

    You underestimate Emma.

    She’s pretty hip to that sorta thing.

    No the reason that Sherb and me don’t go there is because it is a board that caters to *ex* Scientologists.

    Those who reject the philosophy which is why they call themselves ….wait for it …..*ex* Scientologists.

    Have you read the FAQ to her board?

    If you want to spend your time pissing into the wind.

    Go fer it doooood!

    The reason that you run into trouble over there is because the *majority* on the board over there consider those of us who still consider ourselves Scientologists poor brain washed benighted souls.

    Not because of some “OSA agent”.

  360. And lastly Mike, if you go to ESMB and search “Marty” or “Rathbun” you will find there are over 150 threads dedicated to fair gaming Marty. I think it’s a little late to throw a hissy over HERE, about “name calling”. Also not even the right forum to protest about this.

  361. martyrathbun09

    I told you this in 2009 and I’ll repeat it again for the hard-of-duplicating-and-understanding (Mr. Baker and Mr Peeler) – I have ZERO interest in garnering the trust of you all.

  362. Go read my posting history over there, before you think to instruct me about ESMB.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  363. Sherb,

    I am sorry if you were ridiculed for posting on ESMB, I wish it didn’t happen, but unfortunately it does. But that’s free speech for you – sometimes people say things we don’t like. And, you have to understand that there are a lot of people there who were very badly treated or cheated out of their life savings and even those who have lost family members to the cult. As a result, many are still very angry. And I’d say justifiably so.

    Angry people look for people to blame and often take out their anger and frustration on those that appear to side with the object of their anger. But this isn’t everyone and please don’t tar everyone with the same brush.

    Emma created ESMB to enable Ex-Scientologists to talk about their experiences and help then to recover from what they went through. This was 4 ½ years ago, well before many of the Independents on this board were speaking to a wide audience. ESMB was perhaps the only thing that kept me sane (ish) when I finally left the cult behind. There are hundreds of people who have left the CoS because of ESMB, please don’t overlook this.


  364. My user ID on ESMB is “TheSneakster”, by the way.

    P.S. – Are we not supposed to be holding the moral and ethical high ground here, since was all are so much better than they ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  365. sorry – that should read “… since we all..”

  366. 🙂

  367. I was kidding, of course.

    Vinnie Coliuta is one of the greatest drummers ever, and the way that mob were all diluting and condensing the tempo was truly something to behold. It was a fantastic show of awesome musical ability which wasn’t just a display of technical skill, but a deliverance of sublime emotional satisfaction.

    It just goes to show that a Scientologist like Jim Logan has more to his heaven and earth than is contained in his philosophy.

    He can still spot good drummers, thank God.


  368. I can only speak for myself, not everyone here. I am not standing on any holy grounds. You are over here on Marty’s forum as a “supporter”, defending another forum that has over 150 threads fair gaming him. As a person familiar with some aspects of mathematics, that doesn’t add up.
    I don’t think anyone here deserves to be reprimanded by you. Most people here live in shades of black and white and are not lost is hues of gray. Which is where holiness exists.

  369. What he said to Mosey is the same thing an OSA staff member who came to my house in 2006 to get me to stop posting on the ARS said to me.

    I asked him what he thought of my posts on in the Internet and he said “I think it’s disgusting”

  370. It’s your blog Marty, so your rules. This means that you get to decide which posts you allow and which ones you don’t. I don’t have a problem with that.

    However, I remember you telling me that you welcome other opinions and believe in the importance of ‘multiple viewpoints’.

    Well, here’s mine. I first read John Peeler (writing as BTs2Free on OCMB) talking about his experiences at Int nearly 5 years ago. I was still in the cult then, but what I read from John (and Marc Headley and others) really shook me. It was the first time that I had heard from eye-witnesses talking about the insanity at the heart of my church. I was still in the cult, still explaining away the outnesses I had seen and still pretending that things were going to work out OK. If it hadn’t been for a few brave souls who had the courage to speak out, maybe I’d still be trapped.

    Things were very different then, there were just a few websites critical of the CoS and anyone speaking out, especially from within the inner sanctum of Int, were putting themselves in harm’s way. It took a lot of courage to speak out then, but boy am I glad that guys like John did.

    I have read many of John’s posts (on OCMB and elsewhere) and I have read a lot ofwhat you have put on your blog. I was also fortunate enough to meet with you, albeit far too briefly, and discuss first hand some of the things that you saw and went through. I have spent many hundreds of hours reading about other people’s experiences in (and out of) Scientology. Without wishing to sound immodest, I think that I can reasonably claim to have an informed opinion.

    It is clear that you found what John said to be offensive and I can see why this would be so. But, I have to agree with SWSNBN – either post the whole comment as is, or disallow it and say why.

    It’s difficult to be tolerant when people say things that we don’t like, but let’s not forget who the real enemy is here. Truth and understanding are our friends.


  371. Thanks Moneca,

    Funny how sometimes you see things so clearly with 20/20 hindsight or ignore your intuition about certain things.

    At the time I saw the “Golden Age of Tech” video in Phoenix Org I thought to myself “this is fucked”!

    Especially at the point when the student and coach were running an ARCX and the student shifted to running some withhold and never “F/Ned” the original ARCX!

    I mean it was a total violation of C/S Series 89 ‘F/N What You Ask or Program’ and various HCOBs on Q&A.

    Yet this example of blatant OUT TECH was met with uproarious applause from the audience with Miscavige smiling on the stage like some Cheshire Cat!

    Then I really stepped through the looking glass or jumped down that rabbit hole when I ended up back in LA where practically everyone on lines there had embraced the “Golden Age of Tech” like some kinda mantra.

    Totally forgetting what Ron says about the group bank embracing bad technology in KSW.

    I went along with the total insanity until I came across a Golden Age of Tech “Standard Tech Drill” that was contrary to everything that I’d read about rudiments.

    Somebody had arbitrarily added running Justifications to the Missed Withhold rudiment.

    At that point I began to churn out Out Tech reports and Orders Queries on any and all drills that conflicted with the source references.

    I could have written a book on all the alterations and outright *squirreling* contained in all the so called “Standard Tech Drills”.

    Fortunately I was twinned with an VIII who felt the same way about the drills and so instead of doing what the drill said to do we “cheated” by doing what the actual HCOB said to do instead which was the only way I made it through the (Un) Certainty Courses.

    Can you believe it?

    Here we were applying Standard Tech and if the Course Supe found out about it. It would of been considered “cheating”!


    What was also unreal was the new “standard” for an “F/N”.

    A “standard” that was enforced with heavy ethics which was a complete and utter violation of the HCOPL ‘Tech Recovery’

    I mean there were even so called “auditors” who were bragging about the fact that they overran their PCs consistently.

    You know “just to make sure”.

    Just to make sure of what?

    That their PC was caved in and their sorry ass didn’t end up in Ethics where I ended up quite a lot because I refused to *overrun* my PCs.

    Anyway it was on one of my many excursions to the basement of ASHO that I came across the HCOPL 16 April 1965 Issue II ‘Drills Allowed’ and wrote a long report to RTC recommending that since these drills directly violated policy they should be *cancelled*.

    Needless to say that recommendation didn’t gain me any kudos with the powers that be.

    First they tried to re-educate me in Qual.

    Showing me various refs etc,etc that could be construed or *interpreted* as supporting the Golden Age of Squirreling including a grueling M2 (or what they called an M2) on “A Talk on a Basic Qual” where I cognited there was a crashing MisU alright but it wasn’t mine and it was in the title of the lecture.

    I continued to hold my ground and demanded to know what was the exact *Policy* that specifically *cancelled* ‘Drills Allowed’.

    I mean I was raised in Scientology on the idea that Orgs were supposed to operate on policy.

    Obviously it was out dated idea in as Jeff calls it the “Brave New Scientology”.

    In ending this story.

    Due to my insistence and demand that the Organization apply policy I was turned over to the tender mercies of HCO who insisted that they do an “ethics investigation” on my sorry ass.

    (I guess they couldn’t find enough dirt to outright declare me or something)

    And as far as I know over five years later they’re are still in the process of doing one.

    Who knows?

    Who cares!

    The truth is that if don’t toe the line over there and go along with the out tech and off policy. They’ll find some way of moving you off their lines.

    A sad but true commentary of what has happened to the “Church of Scientology”.

    You try to do what Ron says over there and don’t let the door hit your ass heading out the door 🙂

    By the way OSA.

    If your reading this which I’m pretty sure you are.

    Why don’t you post the policy that cancels HCOPL 16 April AD 15 Issue II?

    You know the one issued on the same day the Hidden Data Line was issued.

    Betcha can’t because it doesn’t exist.

    You guys are nothing but a bunch of fakes pretending to be “Scientologists” like your elitist ignorant and moronic “ecclesiastical leader”.

  372. Some people cannot even perfect A=A.

  373. They think they are at the Indiana State Fair when they are in the middle of Viet Nam or they think they are in the middle of WWll while they are sitting on the net in another century.

  374. Another Layer

    Finally, on my Grades! Hallelujah!

  375. “Marty as long as you are promoting Hubbards bullshit I will attack you because I know that he was evil”

    Now, how exactly do you “know” that?

  376. When someone like Mark Baker (who would argue with you if you said the sky is blue) puts himself up on a priggish pedestal and says, “I don’t ‘trust’ you because you haven’t gotten off all your overts yet,” I have to laugh — especially when he’s talking about Marty and Mike, who are taking so much more responsibility than most for what they helped to create inside corporate Scientology.

    In fact, I would be surprised to learn that anyone who is no longer associated with corporate Scientology, whether they’re still a practicing Scientologist or not, has not committed overts, sins, crimes, and bonehead mistakes in the name of “Scientology.” We all have committed sins of omission and commission.

    I’ve got absolutely no problem with anybody practicing or believing (or not) anything they want — philosophically, spiritually or religiously. But the self-righteous bullshit that usually passes for online activism is mostly that — bullshit. Real activism is when someone puts themselves in the line of fire. Not when all they do, like Mark Baker, is type about it.


  377. “theoracle”:

    Are you sure you want to try to smear me with propaganda spin and innuendo ?

    You who will not even properly identify yourself ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  378. “Markus, just because I believe some of the things Hubbard wrote are utter nonsense doesn’t mean I don’t find his larger body of work to be of any value.”

    Know what happens if you tell a person a high level truth that is so far above their ability to understand, so far above their enlightenment level for them to be able to grasp and understand, so far above their reality?

    They think it’s “nonsense”.

  379. martyrathbun09

    This ain’t ESMB.

  380. Just because a person was connected to the church of scientology at one time does not mean they:

    1. Are a Scientologist
    2. Know what is going on
    3. Achieved any case gain

    As far as I’m conserved, there is no such thing as an “X-Scientologist”!

    Any person who says they are an “X-Scientologist” never really was one to begin with.

    Being connected to an Org or a staff member, doesn’t make you a Scientologist.

    Like knowing the truth, you can never then un-know the truth. Once you become a Scientologist ( know the truth, get case gain ) it is eternal.

  381. Let me say in addition, a Scientologist is an enlightenment level, once it is achieved it can’t be undone.

  382. JM — And what is especially amusing is that I could care less if Mark Baker “trusts” me. I dont even know who he is. I am certainly not trying to persuade him to do anything or “follow me” — maybe its important to him because he is looking for someone to lead him somewhere….

  383. David Lingenfelter


    I’ve been on the road and just now got caught up on all the week’s blogs. You telling that ‘man’ where it is at while he is on his little golf cart is well done. It made me laugh and sad at the same time. Laugh because you told him that the emperor has no clothes and sad in that he allowed himself to get caught up in the insanity of DM.

    You were speaking from power and he was adrift in confusion.


  384. yawp, yawp!
    Marty, me thinks there are cur dogs around.
    It’s your playground, you offer us the choice to be contributive and civilized, help to open and heal wounds and shine the light of truth or to go somewhere else to piss and moan hatefully. I didn’t think it was too hard of a choice to make. Thanks for all you do and put up with and still remain humane and caring.

  385. “I post over on ESMB occasionally in some (perhaps foolish) effort to keep the OSA minions from keeping the people there continually restimulated.”

    So why don’t you do some good over there and make a list of who the OSA minions are so they can be sidestepped?

    I know, I know, emma won’t let you.

  386. “Having to defend every postitive statement on such a board is not my idea of somewhere to make friends or feel safe.”

    I agree Sherb

  387. “The reason that you run into trouble over there is because the *majority* on the board over there consider those of us who still consider ourselves Scientologists poor brain washed benighted souls.”

    Yes, and that’s where they are making their mistake.

  388. “And, you have to understand that there are a lot of people there who were very badly treated or cheated out of their life savings and even those who have lost family members to the cult. As a result, many are still very angry. And I’d say justifiably so.”

    Yes, done people in the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY not by Scientology tech.

  389. “Emma created ESMB to enable Ex-Scientologists to talk about their experiences and help then to recover from what they went through.

    You mean, the reason she gives.

    We don’t know for certain that that is the real reason. What one TELLS is their reason and what their real reason is can be different.

  390. Question:

    When a person is described as being “Sneaky” or describes themselves as being “Sneaky”, what type of person comes to mind?

  391. “Are you sure you want to try to smear me with propaganda spin and innuendo ?”

    Well, we wouldn’t want “theoracle” to do that.

    Smearing others with propaganda and 3rd partying is your job right Mike? 😉

  392. Seems to me that they can’t take a lot of actual communication. In this case the woman started hussling the crew to get going. In the video from the airport the ‘Freedom’ ‘reporter’ intervened to make sure the Chaits didn’t hear too much.

  393. Mike & Marty – numerous times when somebody on ESMB has pushed McSavage’s PR line that you two “just want to take over”, I have pointed out that you have disavowed wanting anything further to do with C of $ and that this messages comes direct from the Freedumb Magazine responsed to the Truth Rundown series.

    The same few parties keep pushing that line and that’s one of my criterion for who whom is most likely an OSA minion over there.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  394. From R and D Vol 9 p76:
    “Anything for which an individual feels any misemotion – antagonism, anger, fear, grief, apathy – is something for which he has not accepted his responsibilty. And you only get misemotion on a case when an individual has refused to accept the rresponsibility in that sphere. If he doesn’t accept the responsibility in that sphere then he is going to get misemotion.”

    “He can control anything for which he has accepted the full responsibility. He is unable to control something for which he has not accepted it.”

  395. Talk about creating a Hidden Data Line!

    Wheeler never gives a date or title to any of these alleged “R” or * Advices that were supposedly included in his MAA pack.

    Generalizes by saying the Manual of Justice is something the Stazi would use.

    Typical of the ESMB crowd which is much like the ARS and OCBMB crowd who all electronically nod their heads like a buncha bobble heads never asking for the exact reference(s).

    Pretty much bank agreement from his comment on.

    They remind me of …. remind me of…..

    Int Base staff under Simple Simon Dave.

    Yeah the other side of the same coin.

    The question is.

    Did you really kick him off this board Marty or did he just go off on a hissy fit because you didn’t post that turgid, uninformed and unreadable comment of his?

  396. I have no intention to harm you. I identify myself with my actions. My actions are my only true belongings. The people who need to know me know me by my actions. This blog isn’t about me, and it is not about you. We are only guests here. Period. Me. You. Guests. Nothing more. I do not care to inherit enemies because of ESMB or one of their own. It wasn’t I who worked to merge the two. This has been a great forum with almost zero infighting between peoples because it has an actual purpose to heal and repair and give people hope and right indications. I only contribute to that as I can.

  397. The irony AC is that ESMB like OCBMC and ARS has become a cult.

    Even more ironic is that they aren’t even aware of this fact.

  398. The point is for all of us that were in the Sea Org, is that we had good intentions. Not for ourselves, for all of mankind. I have never apologized for being in the Sea Org. I will never apologize for leaving the Sea Org. I don’t know how many of Marty’s critics spent those decades wholly in service to others and had to face the disillusionment he did and we all have. But I will not apologize for any of us or for anything we did. I’m not sorry for any of it. Things change. Plans and conditions shift in the wind all the time all over this planet. Look at 911, who saw that coming? It’s not about never making a mistake or standing in the winners circle all of the time. A few decades ago I wouldn’t have been allowed to shine David Shoes. Times change. Conditions change. That doesn’t mean any of us who threw ourselves with good intentions into a plan that sounded good have to apologize for our meaning and our hard work and sacrifices. Nobody but nobody out here had to walk in Marty’s shoes. At least we are not sitting around suppressing ourselves and one another. With Marty’s efforts we are reinventing ourselves and moving forward. These people that are throwing us and themselves out with the bathwater have to live with themselves too. Most of them REFUSE hope in this Scientology Arena and work to invalidate everyone and everything in it. I just choose not to. There is a lot of beauty and magic still very possible. And I am into living with that. Anyone here choosing to blame Marty for any part of this when we all have our fingerprints all over it it just looking to punish instead of making the best of a sticky situation. The truth is, if you can’t roll with the punches you find yourself out of any game. Not just Scientology. And that is why most of the the critics have not moved on to a new game. They know it’s true.

  399. P.S. Nothing I have said is new news either.

  400. Moderating a blog, Facebook Page, etc. is not always an easy job. I think you do an excellent job here Marty.

  401. Not that I mean to step beyond posting privileges by writing a book. Which I seem to be doing. But just to say in finality on this “Ex” “ESMB” “Critic” issue one thing. These people distancing themselves from the others who are still trying to make the best of things, they are NOT “out of the game” in Scientology. They are still very much “in the game”. Devoted to it as much as we are. They have just taken on the form of suppressors in the game. They are still here in the game. And this has always been part of the game. To bump against suppressors. There is nothing they experienced that we have not. We had losses, set backs, injustices, and all the rest. We just held onto our dreams and did not permit ourselves to be unmocked.

  402. The truth of the matter is, that the Church of Miscavige is churning out more suppressors than OT’s.

  403. This is a high note of truth .
    Many people in this game calling themselves “Scientologists” or “Ex Scientologists” never reached the first step of being a Scientologist.

    This is a line of genius. Because it explains many, many things.

    Thank You AC.

  404. Even you guys in OSA have to admit this.

  405. You just keep contributing to this old habit and you will find yourselves in an even more suppressive environment than the one you and I both know you are already in.

  406. For some reason I still hope for you. We do care about you, that is why we are still here.

  407. Tell us you are up to need of change.

  408. “Let me guarantee you, he can’t compose a composed, intelligent communication in response that wouldn’t get blocked for containing too much generalized entheta and lies to waste the time trying to disinfect.”

    To me, your comment sounds like this:

    “Let me guarantee you, he can’t compose a composed, intelligent communication in response that wouldn’t get blocked for containing too much data unfavorable of Hubbard“.
    Of course, as people have mentioned, that is your prerogative. But you’re engaging in the very same information control that keeps people in the fold of Miscavige’s organisation. There are other witnesses, that back up John’s perspective, like Larry Brennan.

  409. “The reason that you run into trouble over there is because the *majority* on the board over there consider those of us who still consider ourselves Scientologists poor brain washed benighted souls.”

    And some people on this blog regard ex-scientologists on ESMB as “no case gain”, OSA manipulated boneheads who are out to destroy the image of Hubbard, and Anons as punks; while posters on this blog “know” they are the holders of the sole truth out there.
    My point is, clashing viewpoints like these will inevitably result in posts that are offensive to either side. And when you enter the turf of either side you must expect to get the replies you get. Look at what I’ve written in the past and the replies I’ve got here. Just gotta have a thick skin 🙂

  410. martyrathbun09

    It would help to learn the Tone Scale in full and be able to use what you learn.

  411. martyrathbun09

    Faust, being as motivatory and delusional as him, I think you’ll need to come up the tone scale to continue to make the very low moderation standards I’ve set.

  412. I have always led discussions on this blog in a civilized manner. Yes, I have asked uncomfortable questions in the past or said things that do not align with the view of the majority of posters here. But that does not make me a troll.

    I understand that after the 100th time of having the same discussion you tire of it. But John Peeler was there, worked in the organisation, just as you and Mr. Rinder did, and there are many others that worked with Miscavige and even Hubbard, that share his opinion. He is not the average run-of-the-mill troll anon that comes only for creating mayhem.
    That’s why I took issue with the way you dismissed him, in my previous post.

  413. martyrathbun09

    Dude, you are overrestimulated. I never called you a troll. This hyper motivator business is a living hell for you. See yesterday’s Grade II story – doesn’t that sound delightful?

  414. Yes, I agree.

  415. “And some people on this blog regard ex-scientologists on ESMB as “no case gain”, OSA manipulated boneheads who are out to destroy the image of Hubbard, and Anons as punks; while posters on this blog “know” they are the holders of the sole truth out there.”

    First, aren’t you a poster on this blog too?

    Second, there is no such thing as one SOLE TRUTH in this universe. It’s a collection of multiple truths.

    Third, nobody can “hold” the truth. I don’t feel that I’m a holder of any the “sole truth” or all truth.

    Fourth, how can they be “ex-scientologists” if they never were a scientologist to begin with? What, because they were a staff member in an org or associated with the church of scientology in some way? Is that what makes them think they were a scientologist? They are not “ex’s” they are “never were’s”.

    A Scientologist is an enlightenment level.

    How can one become “ex-enlightened” or “ex-case gain” or “ex-knower of truth about something”?

    They are simply “ex-church of scienotology staff members” or public or use to be connected to the church of scientology in some way. Therefore they then think that they were Scientologists and once they leave the Org or stop buying books or taking course they then think that they are now “ex-scientologists”.

    But they never were to begin with.

  416. Sometimes. Sometimes it might just be nonsense. Best not to generalise. 🙂

  417. A very valid point Dr Faust and what you say about polarization is very true.

    However I know no one here who claims to know the “sole truth” since many here are familiar with Ron’s article on Personal Integrity.

    Yes and many of us get touchy about aspersions and efforts to malign or character assassinate the Ol’man because many of us consider him a personal friend or have been a personal friend in the past.

    I mean how would you like it if someone started dissing a good friend of yours?

    And while we’re on that topic.

    Many here consider Marty and Mike friends and yet Emma’s allowed over 150 threads to be posted maligning them!

    When has anyone here ever attacked Emma personally?

    Actually I’m very laissez-faire, modus vivendi, live and let live etc.

    I mean those guys over there can natter to their happy hearts content about Ron, Scientology, Marty, Mike, me whoever their little black hearts desire.

    Few of us as far as I know ever go over there to find out whatever terrible things they say about us or about our scheming and dastardly plot to save Scientology that horrible “cult” or whatever or Marty’s efforts to become leader of the Indies which happens to be OSA’s party line well documented in Treaso….er I mean Freedom Magazine.

    As I wrote earlier Emma has her public and Marty has his.

    What has happened here is that someone has been acting as a 3rd Party and actually seems to be trying to create some kind of conflict between us and ESMB and this could be the possible reason for any conflict.

  418. When I first put the KoolAid glass down ESMB was one of the first places I looked. I had fantastic wins going up the Bridge, and even greater wins auditing others. I felt bad for all the injustices I read about. I had some too.

    But the things said about the actual technology itself showed very little to no understanding of it. Right there in the tech itself are solutions to any crappy auditing or “handlings” that got bad results.Guess you have to go outside the “church” to get any decent auditing anymore, but I couldn’t take those comments from people who had obviously done it wrong or received tech that was done wrong. It can be fixed if you’re not total NCG and genuinely want to be rid of those bad effects.

    It can be fixed so anyone can get what they originally wanted personally and spiritually. I’ve seen it and I’ve done it, and it won’t cost you your first born or 24% interest fees on your uber-extended credit cards anymore.

  419. Right on!

    Gato babe.

    The point is they call it the “ex-Scientologist” message board yet many of them over there haven’t even set foot in an Org or even read a book written by Ron.

    (Reading Miller’s Lie -ography or a Piece of BS don’t count)

    The others for the most part say they are NCG.

    I mean they say they never got any gains and its all BS.

    (Guess it musta been someone else who wrote all those success stories attesting to those levels.

    Probably was or maybe they were lying.)

    Which reminds me!

    I love these guys who say things like I spent 30 years in Scientology but now the scales have falling from my eyes or now I see or…

    How could anyone trust someone that slow is beyond me.

    But your right Gato if someone applied standard tech to them they’d be OK even the “NCGs” which is really an administrative term since I haven’t found anyone alive who wouldn’t get case gain even a raving psycho “SP”.

  420. “I post over on ESMB occasionally in some (perhaps foolish) effort to keep the OSA minions from keeping the people there continually restimulated.”

    (F)oolish is right.

    Remember you said it Mike.

    BTW why do you call yourself “The Sneakster”?

    Not exactly a name that would instill confidence or trust which is what you what you need when you are attempting to destimulate someone.

  421. Wow …. just read of all this.

    Mosey – you completely rock !


  422. So now you are seeking to define who is, or in this case who WAS a Scientologist and who wasn’t?

    Presumably you would choose criteria that makes YOU a Scientologist and anyone who disagrees with you NOT?

    I suppose the irony in the fact that DMbots, or whatever we call them are saying the same thing about anyone who visits this blog and that Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Jeff Hawkins, Amy Scobee, etc, etc were just pretending to be Scientologists, is totally lost upon you?

    For the record, there are many ‘old timers’ who made huge contributions to Scientology and some who even worked with LRH directly, that have appeared on ESMB.


  423. RJ,

    I’ll say it again – please don’t tar everyone with the same brush.

    The majority of ESMBers WERE Scientologists and not just of the read-a-book-and-did-a-Div6-course variety. There are several OTVII and VIIIs, dozens of other OT level completions, guys who were in the Exec Strata, EDs of orgs, mission holders and even a couple of Class XIIs.

    Yes, if someone posts something complimentary about the Tech, they get a bit of flak, but it’s just from a few, not the majority and besides, what wrong with someone expressing an opposing viewpoint? There are many ESMBers who see the value in Scientology, but they don’t go banging on about it all the time, they are smart and realise where they are.

    Quite honestly, if someone can’t stand a bit of criticism and counter-argument they can’t be very secure in their beliefs and they certainly aren’t very OT.

    You said: “I love these guys who say things like I spent 30 years in Scientology but now the scales have falling from my eyes or now I see or…”

    Would you say that to Marty or Mike? How long did it take them to wake up?

    I don’t know your circumstances and perhaps you left the CoS after 6 months when you realised that it wasn’t the organization that it claimed to be and you set up an Independent group delivering ‘genuine’ Scientology, but most of us weren’t so perceptive. We stayed in because we wanted to believe and we turned a blind eye to things that we shouldn’t have.

    But, we did get out, eventually.


  424. Ax,

    Scientology is not a *belief* system.

    It is not a “faith based religion” even though Miscavige and his spiritual wrecking crew may be trying to turn it into such.

    It is based on observable *results* and when these results are not forthcoming because someone is preventing you from applying standard tech then it’s time to move on.

    And this is what is occurring in the organization these days under the rubric of the Golden Age of Tech.

    Not only that but “ethics” within the organization has been totally reversed to enforce *squirreling*.

    I personally spend years trying to correct the scene by application of policy by use of “Staff Member Reports” and Querying every order that violated tech or policy.

    In other words I tried to correct the scene and when the scene the scene couldn’t be corrected because of suppression I left.

  425. “Yes and many of us get touchy about aspersions and efforts to malign or character assassinate the Ol’man because many of us consider him a personal friend or have been a personal friend in the past.”

    One thing I am often trying to do is putting myself in the shoes of the one I am discussing with. So yes, I totally understand that you’re angry.

    “Many here consider Marty and Mike friends and yet Emma’s allowed over 150 threads to be posted maligning them!

    When has anyone here ever attacked Emma personally?”

    She has no moderation policy that disallows posts before they get through. To my knowledge she has never deleted posts on the basis that she didn’t like the subject that was going on, but only when it contained personal attacks on another poster on ESMB.
    For example, the “I Am A Scientologist” poster/thread comes to my mind, and right now I find a “why I admire L Ron Hubbard” thread there, where the opening post would align fully with your opinion, and no, it was no irony.
    I agree that even if these ESMB posters were right 100% in what they accuse Marty of, the personal attacks that are going on don’t help anyone. Why doesn’t she delete those personal attacks then? Well, because she is biased, in the sense that she runs an EX-Scn forum, and you are still Scientologists. Just as biased as the moderators on this blog when it comes to maligning David Miscavige, though I think that is a bias we can all agree on.

    “What has happened here is that someone has been acting as a 3rd Party and actually seems to be trying to create some kind of conflict between us and ESMB and this could be the possible reason for any conflict.”

    I know that these are OSAs tactics. But it’s too simple to say all conflict you are getting is only because OSA instigators create it. I am sure that the majority there are genuine non-OSA people who simple don’t like that you continue to tout Scientology.

  426. “Yes, done people in the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY not by Scientology tech.”

    They would disagree, and they have every right to do so.

  427. Just because the vast majority posting there is in agreement in their view does not mean they are a cult.
    If they were a cult, as you claim, they would not allow pro-tech posts on their forums. But they do. That you are getting contra when you post is only natural given the target group this site caters for. Even uncivil comments do not “limit” your freedom as I have seen someone claim on this blog here. These comments are an annoyance, but they don’t send people to your house to make you change your mind. They don’t physically threaten you to keep quiet about what they believe. You are still free to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.

    You will have to come up with more, before you convince me they are a cult.

  428. Again a very insightful comment Dr Faust.

    By the way I was just pointing out the possible 3P.

    I wasn’t implying that the person was an OSA agent though it is one of the tactics they use to create factionalization.

    Many of us call it reverse or black Scientology because instead of using Scientology to *improve* conditions. They use it to worsen them.

    As I’ve written many times.

    I don’t personally care about those people who don’t like Scientology or object to us touting it.

    There are plenty of forums they can post their objections. It is when they come over here and try to show us the error of our ways that I object.

    As far as I understand this is a forum for Scientologists who don’t happen to like what is currently going on with the Organization.

    Also personally I think we spend too much time nattering about Miscavige.

    He is merely a symptom of the deadly disease known as authoritarianism.

  429. can anyone else see it

    “Also personally I think we spend too much time nattering about Miscavige.”
    Speak for yourself if you want to call it natter. As a supposed tech person you should know what is behind natter. And you use the word “I” more than anyone I have ever read. You like to talk about symptoms. You might get somewhere if you saw that as a symptom too.

  430. “Presumably you would choose criteria that makes YOU a Scientologist and anyone who disagrees with you NOT?”

    I’m choosing the proper criteria.

    If we don’t have a proper criteria then a janitor who sweeps the floors at night at the local Scientology Org can then start calling himself a Scientologist.

    Where does it end?

  431. “Sometimes it might just be nonsense”

    How would you know the difference?

    How would you be able to tell the difference between true nonsense from something that was just over your head and beyond your IQ to understand?

    “Best not to generalise.”

    Are you implying that I was generalizing? If so, where?

    ( and that’s “generalize”. )

  432. Where did I say they didn’t have the right to disagree?

    Where is it in my above statement do I discus the subject of their rights?

    I’m saying that their disagreement is incorrect, not that they don’t have the right to agree or disagree.

    That’s a different subject.

    I’m not making a statement concerning their right to agree or disagree but whether or not their agreement or disagreement on this matter is correct or incorrect.

  433. What is your definition of the word “cult”?

  434. “For the record, there are many ‘old timers’ who made huge contributions to Scientology and some who even worked with LRH directly, that have appeared on ESMB.

    What does “appeared on ESMB” have to do with anything?

    We are talking people who attack Scientology tech.

  435. “But the things said about the actual technology itself showed very little to no understanding of it.”

    Exactly, and that’s about 99% of those on ESMB.

    The reason they attack it is because:

    1. They don’t understand it.

    2. They have never been audited properly with it and gotten case gain.

  436. “She has no moderation policy that disallows posts before they get through.”

    No but she does have the ole “ban hammer” and she isn’t afraid to use it on anyone that doesn’t toe the ESMB party line.

  437. “Not exactly a name that would instill confidence or trust which is what you what you need when you are attempting to destimulate someone.”


  438. At least *I* speak for myself.

    Unlike others who claim to speak for anyone else.

  439. A group…

    … in which control of information is practiced through means of censorship and shunning of your followers. For instance, for Miscavige culties, this blog here would be entheta, and any member in good standing confessing to reading it without autorization would be severely punished.
    … in which there is one leader whose word is law and any opposition, and if only in the form of voicing your opinion, will lead to severe punishment.
    … that practices highly repetitive exercises so as to alter established thought patterns and make people more suggestible (running around the pole in Hemet anyone? Ceaseless Sec Checks?)
    … that advocates it is an elite group of individuals that have the wisdom and truth, while everybody else is deluded and chasing mirages.
    … regularly puts its members in stressful situations through high workloads so that they do not start to question their situation (Sea Org, and org staff?)
    … has members believe that their contributions to the group are necessary to avert the destruction of humankind, or even that the world is going to end soon (Like the Jehova’s Witnesses)

    This list is by no means complete, and the most important points are at the top, but this video here does a very good job at listing the techniques many cults use to get totally devoted followers. It is kind of funny, because you watch this video and compare this with the testimonies of people who worked at gold base and you’re going:

    Low protein food? – Check
    Sleep deprivation? – Check
    Information Control? – Check
    One leader who’s word is law? – Check
    Shunning of members? – Check


  440. If what you said was true, why are users like “pip” or “I am a Scientologist” with pro-Hubbard and pro-Tech posts still allowed to post?

    She has used it on people who could not refrain from making vulgar or insulting posts on other ESMB members, and also banned users that are vigorously anti-Hubbard. What you are saying has nothing to do with toeing the “ESMB party line”.

  441. Thank you. I always find your posts well thought-out and reasonable, as well!

  442. Sorry, took me some time to find this post and reply.

    It is delightful, though I am not one to like poetry much, I much prefer music 🙂
    It probably had to do with interpreting all those poems at school from the likes like.. well Goethe, Schiller and Mörike and I never loved doing that very much 😉

  443. I want to answer to Dr. Faust’s definition of a cult, but there is no more room to click Reply to his comment. So I am commenting on the entry from atcause which came just before.

    I was very negatively affected by something that was extremely cultish when I was at the int base. I’m over it now and finally saw through it. It was a specially-collected and published set of FO’s (“Flag Orders,” rules and policy written by Hubbard and others for the Sea Org only) put in an attractive, 1″ thick spiral-bound pack and given out at Sea Org Day at the int base around 1999 or 2000 or thereabouts.

    It was done at the order of Miscavige and given to everyone at the base on Sea Org Day in 1999 or 2000 or thereabouts. We had to study it hard and heavy.

    The FOs that were hand-picked were all about how it’s YOU who are responsible. True, it’s your life and you are in the driver’s seat. But the end result of a pile of paper dinging it into your head in every way shape and form was the farthest thing from Enlightening–it was degrading. By the time I finished studying that pack I was CERTAIN I had a million shortcomings and had no way I could see where I would ever be able to measure up.

    So all that was left was a mental state of “grovelling,” so that not too many others could see how incapable I was–when in fact I was extremely capable.

    I have read many FOs and agree with a lot of them that explain organization, how to rally a team of people to get a job done, and the ones about REWARDS when the job does get done. I even agree with the ones that say you are in charge of your own life. Duh.

    But to force-feed the “realization” to a very conscientious, dedicated and hard-working staff member that they are really ineffective and unable and could never make the expected grade is Mind-Control Cult at its finest.

  444. Thanks Doc 🙂

  445. I Ah ok Marty who gave you that stable datum? I think it is very important to be able to recognize evil people in life. For me Hubbard was evil. He created a mean trap in order to enslave his followers. What you stated above is part of his trap. You soul and mind are still hacked by him so of course you are not able to realize what he did to you. No Marty I don’t think that you are evil but in my opinion you will continue to harm people as long as you continue to promote Hubbards nonsense. And Marty let me tell you why I started to attack you so directly after you attacked John – You know the story of my brother Uwe right? You know how any free communication is suppressed at the Int Base where Uwe was working between 1980 and 1998. There was a very short period of time when Uwe was allowed to communicate with us more often – it was the time when John was his MAA – his “handlings” led to a bit more freedom for Uwe. And let me tell you that I’m not sure any longer that it was the right path for me and my mother not to attack the CoS directly and much earlier for what happened with Uwe all of these years – not to tell Uwe clear and directly that what he is doing in the name of Hubbard is bullshit. We thought we should be carefull in order not to loose Uwe forever – as you know this was not very successfull.
    Please wake up Marty you are wasting your life for this old criminal con man – you are helping to hide his crimes. You have not even truely started to realize that you – yes YOU Marty have committed crimes.
    You are acting like a little child not like a man as long as you hide your crimes behind DM by saying “oh it is and was all the fault of David – he is evil I wash my hands of it.” How many percent of your blog is about telling all the world how evil David Miscavige is and you want to teach me something about what is the first step to an SP. Look at what YOU have done to others and stop to howl about DM – you were not able to see the evil in Scientology and you participated in this mean game of Ron up to this day.
    Love to you and your family – I hope you will regain your true freedom soon.


  446. Well Marty was working for years and years in a totalitarian system called the Curch of Scientology and he was not able to realize that DM is evil all that time – right? Why do you think this could happen? He is trying to tell his followers here that he is the protector of Rons standard technology but all these years he was not able to see the true face of David Miscavige and he even helped him to suppress and to abuse people – I can tell you that I do not need a technology that is so ineffective and harmfull.
    Regarding your problem with comparing Scientology or Marty with Nazi methods I have a little movie for you.


  447. I “know” it because my family is involved in Scientology since 1976. I was “in” between 1976 and 1983 – my father still is “in” and is working at Stuttgart Org – My brothe Uwe joined the Sea Org in 1979 – he became ill with Multiple Sclerosis in 1988 – he blew from the Int Base 1998 knowing that he was very ill. They did not let him go. I know that the Tech is not working because I have never seen any positive results in the history of my family or by watching countless Scientologists that I met in the last 35 years – for me there are simply no results – Scientology is transforming people into soulless Ronbots who are only able to think in Hubbards mind patterns. This is what I observed.

  448. martyrathbun09

    The feeling is mutual Markus.

  449. Thank you for letting my posts through – it is showing me that you realized that suppressing free speech is not a good start for whatever you are trying to do here. I invite you again to read the whole story of my familyat ESMB – later I will explain how Hubbards writings caused that horrible story.

  450. martyrathbun09

    Not here you won’t. I’ve posted you before and you do not engage in discourse – you engage in what you accuse Scientology (generality) of doing, preaching and propagandizing without any possibility of give and take.

  451. Please try to duplicate what I wrote Marty – I asked you to come over to ESMB where I’m writing down the whole story of my family in and in contact with Scientology – later I will relate every abuse, every crime that was committed against us to the writings of Mr. Hubbard. I will not do this here – I just ask you to come over and read it and I invite you to discuss it freely.

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