Marie-Joe & Tony DePhillips with Marta
Tony and Marie-Joe DePhillips ARE two very dedicated Scientologists. I have included their declaration of Independence, and two write ups telling the story of each of them. I have also included two links at the end of the write ups. I think this material should be read in full by anyone wanting to know how the church of Scientology currently treats quests for the truth even by some of its most steadfast supporters. Thank you Marie-Joe and Tony for holding your positions in space and for standing up and speaking out.
Declaration of Independence
Tony & Marie-Joe DePhillips
a.k.a. “Alex Metheny” & “Freetothink”
Preamble:
We have always loved the writings of L Ron Hubbard. One of my favorite LRH statements is from the lecture Differences Between Scientology & Other Philosophies: “ If it is true for you, it’s true. And if it’s not true for you, it still isn’t true. Not even if Ron told you is it true. It’s just not true, that’s all.“ ~ LRH
In addition to this as a foundation, the ARC triangle, the granting of beingness, the code of honor and not needing a license to survive, are just a few of the building blocks we’ve used to improve our lives. We have had many great wins in Scientology and know many well intentioned staff and public Scientologists.
How we got here:
Our personal story of shock, disbelief and declare will be added as an attachment for those who are interested. You will be able to see how we went from among the top opinion leaders and contributors in our area to SPs, in just a few months.
After reading The Truth Rundown and Geir Isene’s Doubt formula we were deeply troubled about what was going on in the church. These stories were believable to us because they aligned with many of our own observations and experiences. After trying to communicate about the things that were troubling us in the church, we started to get attacked as ourselves being the problem – for speaking out with any disagreement or questioning. It became very apparent that we did not have the right to say what we were observing in regards to our own church or its management. It also became very clear that we did not have the right to associate with people who the church had deemed were “BAD”. Evidently, we were supposed to give up the right to decide who we would or wouldn’t associate with. To us, these are fundamental rights of an American, fought and died for by many!
I have never been good at being bossed around. Some might think it’s a “button” (problem or character blemish) that I haven’t dealt with yet but, on the other hand, maybe it’s an ability that’s helped me retain my self-determinism and freedom of thought. We quickly realized that we had been PTS to the Church for many years, and applied handle or disconnect. When each attempt to handle was met with bigger and stronger messages to cease, desist, and “get handled” (including a Non-Enturbulation Order and ethics interviews), we decided to disconnect by officially resigning from the Church. Our resignation letter to the church pretty much sums it up:
IJC 13 January 2010
Flag AO MAA
Seattle Org Day and Fdn HCO
AOLA MAA
ASHO Day MAA
Tony and Marie-Joe DePhillips
We have both been in Scientology for over twenty years. We have contributed about xxxK to the Ideal Org and over xxK to the IAS. We have spent in the neighborhood of xxxK on services from the Church and donated a decent amount of time participating as volunteers.
We have had some great wins.
Over the last few years however we have noticed more and more things that we do not like about how the church operates. Heavy ethics, make wrong, heavy regging etc. We have made attempts at correcting these things with reports with no result.
We have seen and heard of too many abuses, human rights violations, misuse of resources [people, money,…], and worst of all, too many LRH policies being violated. We can’t, in good conscience, continue to participate and support the church as it is being managed at this time.
After making our own observations and hearing the stories of Marty Rathbun, Geir Isene, Mike Rinder, Amy Scobee, Jeff Hawkins, Mary-Jo Leavitt and many more Sea Org members, OT’s and highly trained auditors, we have made our decision.
We have always been told that these people on the internet were crazy SP’s. After hearing their stories we were not able to come to that conclusion. We were shocked to realize that many who had been painted to us as evil and suppressive were in fact whistleblowers trying to expose the abuses and violations.
We both have experienced excessive sec-checking and heavy ethics even when our contributions (money and time participating) were showing that we were stellar members of the public.
We love Scientology when it is applied with ARC and not with enforcement to get everyone to conform.
We came into Scientology to find our own self determinism and to have gains. Progressively over the years we feel that we have been forced overtly or covertly to “toe the line”, or follow “command intention”, without being able to use our own judgment or our own ethics. If you do not do what is “expected”, you are shunned/punished in various ways. When you assert your own independent thought and it doesn’t align with command intention you are quickly shown you are not a good group member.
In conclusion, we no longer feel confident in this Church’s ability to operate in a manner that we can be proud of and disseminate to others.
We hope that the Church of Scientology will get it’s ethics in and make the changes necessary for it to be a church we can once again be proud of.
Sincerely,
Tony DePhillips Marie-Joe DePhillips
We heard the church lie about its not having a policy of enforcing disconnection – We’d already received many reports of our friends being told not to talk to us.
As someone once said “If they lie about this, what else will they lie about?”
Our conlusions:
After exhaustive research and communicating, we decided that the abuses did occur and that they were and are extensive and widespread. We also saw that the church was actively involved in creating their own enemies and seemed to take very little responsibility in remedying their wrongs. Furthermore, we wondered what kind of a leader would allow these things to continue to go unhandled and in fact seemingly encourage such activity.
We got into Scientology to become more at cause in life and to do better in life based on our own realities. We still feel that this is what LRH intended. We didn’t, and still don’t, believe or agree with everything that LRH ever uttered. But as he himself said, we don’t have to.
We believe that the church is being run in a fashion that, to us, is destructive overall, as well as destructive to our personal goals of being at cause over our own lives. The Grade Chart states that on OT 7 you will be cause over life. That may be possible, but not if the church refuses to let you be at cause over your own church!!
Also, first and foremost to us is the abuse of the Sea Org members. This to us is obscene. These people dedicate their lives to Scientology only to be treated as sub-humans. And when fed up with that treatment and wanting to leave, they are treated in an abhorrent fashion. These people are some of our best and brightest. This cannot stand. What gives DM the right to run roughshod over these people? Who anointed him to be above the law? The out-points are too many to be listed here, we’re sure you all have examples of your own.
We believe that everyone who stands up and throws off their shackles will make it that much easier for others to do so. That has been true for us. The others coming out before us have made it more real for us to take our stand.
We could not live with the idea that we were too scared or bullied into having to hide our god given rights to be here and communicate. Especially when it is the right thing to do!
So we hereby declare ourselves Independent Scientologists.
Independent: One who is independent in thinking, action, etc.
That is how we see ourselves. We do enjoy the Scientology philosophy by LRH, when we are practicing it as independent people, not having it forced down our throats.
Final thoughts:
We also very much appreciate LRH’s views on infinity valued logic. The idea of two-valued logic such as right-wrong, good-bad is too simplistic. The idea that any man or woman is infallible or perfect is not realistic. All men and women have good and bad in them, it is just a matter of degree. And the fact that we feel Mankind is basically good means that there can be salvation for all and no person has a monopoly on that. DM is not totally bad or totally good just like the rest of us. He is not above the law or above the Scientology justice system. DM IS NOT SCIENTOLOGY. We believe that it is the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics that DM step down from his position as leader and that steps are taken to reform the church of Scientology so it reflects the values of this current culture and promotes ARC, tolerance and the values usually associated with spiritual goals. We have finally answered this question for ourselves: Does the end justify the means? For us the answer is NO!! Or another way of looking at it is: The means are the end. Scientology was supposed to give us a way of setting an example as good and honorable people. That is an end in itself. The way Scientology has been treating its own people is a disgrace and a degrade of Scientology, and has to be rejected.
Thanks for listening. Thank you all for what you are doing and will do in the future.
Much Love,
Tony DePhillips (Mid OTVII, Prov. Class IV Pre-GAT and Fully Hatted Ethics Officer)
Marie-Joe DePhillips (OT V,KTL/LOC, Level G SHSBC)
Church of Scientology’s Slippery Slope:
from Solo NOTs-IAS Patron-Ideal Org Humanitarians to Declared SPs
Tony’s Story: I got into Scientology in 1978, a confused Navy sailor. I joined staff in San Diego, married a Scientologist, subsequently divorced, and left staff in 1985 with a $12,000 debt to the church. I paid off that debt and moved up the Grade Chart through OT V in Los Angeles, just winning like mad through FPRD and PDC and right on up. I was a “Cadillac PC”.
And, all throughout, I was being a “good Scientologist”, deciding not to have children so I could get up the Bridge without distractions and living very modestly in order to pay for auditing. My wife, Marie-Joe, and I have spent hundreds of thousands on auditing. I spent close to $250k just on Solo NOTs, without completion.
I originally started Solo NOTs a couple of years prior to the “Golden Age of Tech”, costly even then in both dollars and time. From the time I arrived at Flag the customer service atmosphere was one of suspicion and distrust, right from the start. But, I let it go because I was at the Mecca of technical perfection and the “friendliest place on Earth” after all, so it must be “ok”.
After being on the level for about a year I was informed that I would have to retrain on everything at my expense. This was quite a shock. I’m not a wealthy man. It took me five years to regroup financially and get back onto the Solo NOTs level.
After seven intensives of sec checking prior to getting onto Solo NOTs the first time and another seven, plus the FPRD, the second time (plus the ever suspenseful wait for “eligibility”) I finally made it on again. Then 18 months into Solo NOTs round two, I was C/S’d for an advanced program of eight more intensives (five of which were sec checks).
Meanwhile, I wrote a KR on the Landlord Office regarding mismanagement of the local Ideal Org purchasing process, and in going over it with the local ED an argument ensued (I was going over my KR with him to ensure my facts were correct). He said “If you weren’t so critical and helped more we would be that much closer!” I had only donated about 30K at that point, so I guess I was down-stat. I retorted, “If I have to do whatever you want me to do to be your friend you can kiss my ass!!”
The local Org tried to issue a “non-enturbulation” order for that, but instead I got recalled to Flag at my own expense. I was upset, and when I got there I thought they would treat me as an OT and I would have a nice comm cycle and all would be good. It wasn’t. Silly me.
I was grilled for my crimes, on the meter, by the MAA. It was so frustrating I asked to get a sec check so at least I’d feel I was being heard. Those 25 hours of sec checking cost me about 14K and I felt like crap afterwards. I told Flag they could keep my Solo NOTs materials and left. To their credit, an auditing correction later handled the lingering upset.
I did a Liability formula for all of this and my wife and I donated another hefty chunk to the Ideal Org, bringing us to over $100,000 donated. My apologies, if this is boring – it certainly is therapeutic for me to write it.
Onto Solo NOTs again for the third time, after another grueling eligibility cycle (seven more intensives and the waiting “sweat out” period). The level was getting more and more solid for me. The gains I was getting on the solo auditing seemed to be negated by the sec checking and the feeling I was “bad” or a “slow case gain” or not “trusted’’.
I received PTS handlings when I didn’t feel PTS. I felt and said, “I don’t want to become what you want me to be. I want to be who I WANT TO BE!!” I have never been good at being bossed around. But it’s an ability that has helped me retain my self-determinism and freedom of thought.
I received ethics handlings on a report I wrote on DM speaking derogatorily about the U.S. President at an event, stating I thought his actions weren’t good PR for our Church or its leader. I caught flack for that! I guess they figured I had “crimes”.
This period seemed like a never ending blood bath of regging and stress. I had to live up to this state of OT being laid out for me. I had to be “helping” all the time, donating to this- that-and the other thing, buying books, going to every event…on and on and on. I started hating it. The IAS regges described the world as a nightmare, creating a very dangerous environment for all of us.
I know I’m describing what others have experienced and written. I am collaborating with you. I also witnessed it, lived it, experienced it. The more you do, the higher in the organization you get – even as public – the less respect and freedom there is if you don’t toe the line.
On my last visit to Flag, I decided if I didn’t finish it that trip, I would route off. I thought I could end off and remain friends. I figured that would be the worst case scenario. But I was nervous…why? Because of the previous heavy handed dealings I had. When, I found out that I wasn’t going to be allowed to attest, I just decided to turn in my materials, route off properly and go home in ARC with the group.
That was wishful thinking. It was off to Qual for a hefty attempt to convince me how abberated I was. Then ,to HCO where the MAA informed me that my auditor and Qual terminals were “enturbulated” by me. I said, ”They are enturbulated by me answering their questions??” Yes, that was indeed it, he confirmed, and threatened me with a Non-enturbulation order. I said, “You have to be joking!!” He wasn’t.
I wrote it up to RTC and no order was issued. But, needless to say, I wasn’t having much fun, or feelin’ the theta. The auditing was good but the other actions were painful. While I was trying to route off the Level I was informed by the Flag AO Tech Sec that if I left without my materials then all the people who’d worked with me there would be Comm Ev’d. I told her that wouldn’t be my overt but someone else’s. I held my position right up to leaving the Yachtsman motel to go to the airport. My Solo C/S, Mike, rolled up in a van with my Solo Nots D of P, Lill – Mike trying to persuade me to go home with my materials. I was in grief at this point. He told me he thought I was close to finishing the level and on hearing that, I decided to take the materials home.
Long story a little shorter (and this is abbreviated a lot!!) I sent my materials back a few months later after deciding that they couldn’t “handle” me, and that I wasn’t going to “go on hoping” while paying $7,500 per intensive for mostly sec checking and FPRD. This was the third & last time I took myself off Solo NOTs.
I continued doing volunteer work as Chaplain at the local Org, two nights a week, to good results. I let people talk and I called things as I saw them. Purely a help flow and NO REGGING…
Then, one weekend while scanning news articles, I ran across the St. Petersburg Times’ The Truth Rundown http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/
– I read it all and watched all the videos. I was shocked!! Could this be true?? Marie-Joe and I spent hours filling the vacuum, looking at different web sites and blogs to fill the void.
WE WERE SHOCKED!!
I realized that I had been tricked. I was reading about, by and large, people who had been screwed over by the Church and then became enemies to it. These were not crazy SPs. These were primarily former members, “enemies” largely created by the Church!
I realized all the sec checking I had been getting was to help the church find these “enemies”. It hadn’t been for my benefit!!
By the way, I have had some great wins getting off overts and withholds. I am not rallying against that. I just think that it can get out of hand and be out tech and done for political reasons instead of for the betterment of the individual.
I was paying the price all along the way, for the CofS creating its own enemies and being afraid of its own creations. This endless sec checking was being done from fear, not because we needed or wanted it. C/S series 73 points this out nicely. There is a write-up on this subject by a woman named Virginia, that I think is definitive and awesome! I had to give her props on that!! http://www.freezone.org/reports/virginia.htm
Realizing this, I thought I would be a good boy and report in to Flag about it. My former NOTs auditor said that I had a major out-ethics situation because I said that I believed the people in the Truth Rundown article. He had asked me a question and when I started to answer, he cut me off – to which I said “don’t ask me a question if you don’t want to hear my answer”. He replied, “I don’t want to hear that natter!!”
I realized then that I couldn’t talk to the group anymore.
PTS?
I have been told at various times that I was PTS, and it’s come up in my programming. I have had many handlings on this topic but none of the items have indicated until now.
I have been PTS to my own Church! And, looking for the suppressive person behind the group, it would have to be its leader, DM. I was shocked at the tales of DM abusing his fellow team members. What gives him the right?? Where is it in writing that DM is above the justice of the group, not to mention the law? What makes him the unchallenged leader of our group?
I was PTS to this group and this leader because I was becoming more and more afraid to communicate about my concerns to them without retribution. I was becoming more afraid to state the out-ethics behaviors, as LRH said is our duty. I had come to feel that if I spoke up and stated what I saw that I would be attacked unjustly. It is not safe to communicate what you want without some kind of retribution, whether it is sec checking for political purposes, invalidation and evaluation from other members, ethics actions, withholding your ability to move up the Bridge, etc.
I was embarrassed to disseminate to my associates because I was no longer proud of how the group operates. Marie-Joe and I have been told that if you don’t disseminate you are PTS. Well it’s true! We have been PTS to our own church!!
I have experienced injustice for speaking up and saying what I believe. I have read about the many injustices on the internet that have occurred to good Sea Org members and good group members who could have, and were, very valuable to the group. I cannot just sit back and say this has nothing to do with me. No more.
We are not going to be afraid of the Church anymore.
I have tried to get at cause over this situation from the inside by writing reports, to no avail. I have been made wrong for bringing up out-points and situations that I see.
More recently, I’ve heard that prior to our written resignation, while volunteering at the Org, there was an interrogatory being conducted about me. I was not informed at the time. The “out-ethics” not ever discussed with me.
Things started to escalade when one day the Fundraising I/C sent us an email to attend an Event. You will find the whole exchange in a link below. Some might find it interesting since it lead us to being Dead Filed.
A report on me for forwarding Mary Jo Levitt’s KR to one of my friends, in combination with the email exchange, did the trick – a few days later a non-enturbulation order was issued on me.
Never once did I receive one phone call or communication from the Org about the non-enturbulation order.
I have since received unofficial word that our SP Declare has been issued.
How have we gone from Solo NOTs, IAS Patrons, and Humanitarians of the Ideal Org, to declared SPs?
It is because the group has gone off course and is following the dictates of a suppressive. I have been the effect of this for too long. I am disconnecting from that suppression and using the only ethics gradient I have left to put ethics in on the group.
How sad.
Did LRH ever envision that his own organization would be hijacked in this way? Was this LRH’s plan? Marie-Joe and I don‘t think so.
Nevertheless, we’re here now in this situation.
We have resigned from the current Church of Scientology. We will no longer consider ourselves a part of that group until we feel it has been sufficiently reformed.
We admire LRH’s auditing tech and many of his philosophic writings and are taking this action in our best efforts to create a better group.
Our sincere admiration for all the people who have helped Scientology make the world a better place and for those who have the guts to say what they see, despite its unpopularity.
Much Love,
Tony & Marie-Joe DePhillips
Marie-Joe’s Story
& Encounter w/the MAAs
I got in Scientology in the late 80’s. I’ve had many life changing wins. Many tools I learned in Scientology are now part of me and I can’t ever imagine not using them.
I spent the last four years serving as I/C (in-charge) of the files project, among other things, at my local Org. I did nearly 2000 hrs on the files project alone, while spending a lot of my own money for supplies and food for the volunteers. Within just a few months I went from being one of the most up stat Scientologists in my area to a declared SP. My crimes were standing up for my rights and the rights of others, pointing out violations of LRH policies and disconnecting from a suppressive source that I could no longer handle.
I agree with and can corroborate everything in Tony’s story. I would like to add a few comments.
For years I was given the impression that something was wrong with my husband, that most people were flying on OT VII and that Tony was one of the rare ones that was having a hard time with it. Many times I questioned how the Tech was used to handle him, and I also questioned Tony. Although Flag was allowing him on OTVII they were also treating him like he had lots of crimes (extensive Sec-checking). Although Tony is no angel, he’s a wonderful husband, a very hard worker and an extremely honest man. I was not seeing any crimes, but I often got introverted into thinking he might have hidden crimes, because of all the extensive sec-checking he was given and the resulting BPC.
I felt so betrayed by the Church when I found out that many were struggling on the Level and that the extensive sec-checking was out tech. I sincerely apologize for having doubted my husband and ever considering that he might be the problem.
As Tony mentioned, we were shocked with the Truth Rundown article. For many years, I worked on different social reform programs; Say no to drugs, World Literacy Crusade, Youth for Human Rights. I successfully used many of these tools to help others, but found myself constantly having to defend Scientology’s bad reputation and explain how it was not a cult.
In the last several months, I started realizing how it is actually, from my perspective, a cult. And that I had, in fact, been PTS. My whole world had been centered around Scientology. When I became aware of the abuses and stopped rationalizing all the out-points I was seeing, my universe started reeling. I so much wanted to handle it from inside the church, with reports and references. But, I rapidly realized it would not be possible. Even after our resignation, I spent hours with MAAs trying to sort things out. Here’s a brief description of what happened, to give you an idea of what to expect.
I met with the MAAs three times, a few hours each time. During the first two meetings I had asked them for stats of established Ideal Orgs. They showed me some of the stats of the newly opened Org in Rome, which were good, but as I pointed out to them it was not an established Ideal Org – it had just opened a few months before. These up statistics could easily have been from people flocking from all over Europe to visit the new Org. They also showed me the CGI from CC Nashville that had been opened 10 months earlier. Not bad (average 15k/week), but certainly not enough to sustain 100 staff with viable wages.
After the first few meetings, where they seem to be interested in my concerns and showed a certain willingness to resolve the issues I was bringing up, things definitely changed at the final meeting. It was made clear that they were not there to assert that everything is perfect in the Church, but that they have certainty that any out-points were being or will be address and resolved. They said that the sequence of actions would be for me to do a “standard” doubt condition and once I decide which side I’m on we could proceed with further steps. Although they were nice they made it clear, from the references they showed me, that I had committed a suppressive act by resigning (HCOPL 17 March 1965 Issue IV – Organizational Suppressive Acts) and unless I “come to my senses & recant” I would be treated as such.
Which pretty much means that I will have no contact person in the Church and can’t do any services until I first “come to my senses & recant”, then do A – E. It also meant that, although they said they do not “enforce” disconnection, any parishioners that want to stay in “good standing” and continue going up the Bridge would have to cut communication with me. But, it’s their “choice”, the Church will not “force” them. If they want to give up their Bridge or to be in communication with me it’s “their choice”.
It’s insane! Especially if I respect my friends’ choice to be part of the Church and don’t try to convince them otherwise. I asked them how someone stops being part of the Church if they choose to play another game. Their answer was showing me a reference like “you can’t be half-in or half-out”. If you’re in we treat you like you’re in if you’re out we treat you like you’re out. I said many people have left the Church a long time ago but are not subject to this because they did not resign. They admitted that my way of doing it was more honest but came with consequences. My response was that for years I defended the Church not being a cult, but now I’m confronted with the fact that it has lots of the characteristics of a cult, especially since you can’t leave it without being considered “evil” even if you have no other “crime” than leaving. They had no comments.
“If a person or a group that has committed a suppressive act comes to his, her or their senses and recants, his, her or their only terminal is the International Justice Chief,…” HCOPL 23 Dec 1965RB Revised 8 Jan 1991 (!!!!!) Suppressive Acts Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists
I asked if a CSW to declare me SP had been sent. They said no. They pointed out that whether I get declared or not I have still committed a suppressive act, so the reference still applies to me. They pointed out that the reference doesn’t say “if a person has received a declare ” but “if a person … has committed a suppressive act”. The MAA’s explained that no matter whether I think it’s not suppressive to resign, or whether anyone else agrees, it is a suppressive act since the policy (Organizational Suppressive Acts) states that it is.
They offered me a chance to do a “standard” doubt formula. They said that by exposing myself to the internet I had put myself in a very narrow world, created by SPs that are taking specific situations in Scientology and making them a generality, and that the church wanted to give me the opportunity to come back to reality and look at the true data. I felt like telling them that I was looking at reality but that they were in their cocoon of ignorance. I didn’t because I didn’t want to start invalidating them. They wanted me to read Marty, Mike and Amy’s declares. They said that a lot of the out-points had been created by Marty, Mike and Amy, and that’s why they had been kicked out. They said the group was doing a lot better since they had left. I told them I didn’t need to see their declares, because whether they are SPs or not doesn’t change what I have experienced and observed. I told them 4 – 6 months earlier I was looking, inspecting and researching, but since I’m not in doubt anymore applying the doubt formula didn’t seem right to me. In addition, I told them that from the references they just showed me the doubt formula is set up for me to either stay in the Church and conform or basically be “evil” if I choose to leave. I told them I felt it’s an unfair way to look at resolving a doubt.
Although I haven’t seen it yet, I heard that there is an SP declare now out on us.
I appreciate all that came forward before me and hope many others will follow. I will continue to listen, encourage and defend any whistleblowers that come forward. I will create new friends and I will flourish and prosper.
Now, Free To Think more than ever, Marie-Joe DePhillips.
LINKS:
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Wow you guys, what a great day today is, to have you both out in the light!!
I have appreciated your comments and contributions to the blogs and feel like I know you already. It is GREAT to see your faces!
THANK YOU for all that you did – all the well-intended contributions, help, hard earned donations and dedication. I know what that is like. And then to be labeled as such a “monster” is a betrayal of huge magnitude. It is the biggest lie in one’s “road to truth”!
THANK YOU for your strength and independent thinking that withstood all the coercion and manipulation.
I am so happy we are traveling the healing path together and then in turn get to help many more.
You have my admiration, gratitude and support.
Love,
Mary Jo
Tony and Mary-Jo,
What wonderful and informative write-ups. We welcome you with open arms to the “Indie Field”.
Feel at home here. You are allowed to be “free to” as you wish.
ML Tom
Hi. Great to read your stories/adventures with the COS. Particularly happy that you could see what was actually happening and not be effected by the “illusion” they build around you.
I have met Marta, and expect to see her again soon. All here, enjoy your newfound freedom. The bridge is still here and available and also affordable.
Bea–utiful, thanks for doing it Tony and Marie-Joe. I say keep demanding a comm-ev!
This new thing about rumors of Declare isn’t standard. You aren’t declared until you see it. If the church dodges policy by not showing it to you in writing, or not bothering to tell you formally that you should come see it, or not comm-eving you, then it’s not a declare. I’m not in agreement that someone is declared when the church gives Ron’s justice procedure the big middle finger F*** You – “Hey Ron you know what? You and your ‘policy’ can go F*** yourselves! Besides, you’re dead so we can get away with it! We know best!”
If you’re given a comm-ev and your peers declare you for fighting an SP, they’ll just dig themselves into a hole through self negation. I bet they wouldn’t even dare do it after you lay out references etc in a formal setting.
Most importantly, LRH policy on this was enacted in part to prevent this exact situation from happening, the church has no right to bypass LRH standard procedure with the justification that LRH didn’t foresee this type of situation. Arbitrary justice from on high? Indeed he did predict this.
Hearing your stories gets me so fired up, but remember “Don’t get mad, get on facebook – breath.” That’s my mantra.
Wow!! Quite the write-ups, guys.
Congrats to the both of you for stickin`to your guns.
Your lives almost parallel ours … I do understand. I expect there are so many more still on lines in this very situation.
It seems to start out with noticing outpoints where there shouldn`t be any, looking within one`s own universe to see whether I`m the nutcase and really not seeing or have overts, confirming that I am NOT a nutcase and do in fact see what I am seeing, writing it up and hoping like hell someone has a cog and change occurs for the betterment of all concerned.
Well, unfortunately that last bit seldom occurs … the info gets buried, one is at first tactfully told it is `being handled` and to not write up anymore, and finally confirmation that, yes indeed, I am a nutcase and one to be shunned.
It`s an evolution I keep telling myself and that whatever we are evolving to (and I mean that in a spritual sense), will be realized sooner rather than later.
I am very excited for you guys – great pic and great smiles!
Do well!
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Dear Tony & Marie-Joe,
I absolutely loved your resignation letter, particularly your assigning the church the responsibility of getting its ethics in.
I have seen people going off for the 6 month checks and knew they often had to deal with “stuff” while there. Your accounting of being public dealing with stuff shows how off purpose the top end of the bridge has become.
As a personal note I had a dream last night that I was involved in and independent Book 1 event and there were all these auditors in little cubicles auditing raw public. As I walk in, a head pops above one of the cubicles and it is a friend of mine, veteran Scientology field auditor and OL. I was grinning from ear to ear, surprised by seeing an old friend and someone I deeply respected had joined the independents.
Your announcement brings me great joy and hope that one day it will be one of my friends staring back at me. A big hearty WELCOME to you both. You have contributed much to these blogs.
Thanks Mary Jo,
Are you Mary Jo Leavitt? If so, you do know me. I used to be the E/O and Dir. I & R at Sterling Management Systems.
Thanks for all the good wishes and for what you are doing!!
ML,
Tony
Thanks Virgil!!
We look forward to meeting you.
ARC,
Tony
Thanks Pat Krenick!!
Thanks Boyd!! It’s good to finally be out of the closet!! I have enjoyed your posts and am happy to consider you a friend.
Tony
Thanks Quicksilver.
I look forward to hearing your story when you are ready to tell it…
ARC,
Tony
Tony and Marie-Joe,
Welcome and thank you for exposing more. I’m going to send your write-up to a dear friend who is struggling with this “whole thing”. I know of several horror stories of wonderful public who are on the OT VII treadmill.
These declarations spawn others………..
Love to you both,
Linda
Tony and Marie-Joe,
You know, when I opted out of CoS and Marty posted my notice here, Larry and I had been alone in our search for answers and resolution to the steady stream of dichotomous crazy-making being generated by the Co$. And we decided we’d rather cut ties, just the two of us, than tolerate or condone any more of it even in silent non-support. Getting that suppression and stress out of our lives was what we needed to do for ourselves. We had no idea the positive impact it would have on others and the waves of encouragement and friendship we would receive as a result.
It wasn’t long and we were in touch with you two again, as well. Your courage in speaking out “in” the church is impressive. We’re proud and pleased to be associated with you, to call you friends, and to share the LOLs as the BS falls away – and we surely do share the LOLs!
Indeed, we’re going to flourish and prosper! No more Bots, no more dictates. Thanks so much for sharing publicly – for you and every other life your stories will touch.
Marta & Larry
Willson
Welcome both of you!
The more of these I read, the more I realize how good people basically are. The amount of Dev-T and just plain false data you persisted through is astounding! For a “church” to use that basic goodness as a trap is just EVIL.
I am glad you are here. Thanks for everything you have done. This is really a new beginning for us all.
Man’s greatest survival tool is the ability to change his mind.
CD
I appreciate you backing me up at various times with my posts over the months, Tony. Never acked you for it but it’s always appreciated. It’ll be nice to meet you someday.
Theta boost!
Thank you for continuing to blaze the trail!
I will be joining you soon and am looking forward to the day my smiling face and story can adorn this lovely theta spot on the web.
much love,
freescn.com
Tony and Marie-Joe: Thank you for keeping your Personal Integrity intact, de-PTSing yourselves, and joining a similarly-minded group of free and freer beings.
Our membership stats are now up by 2 this week.
“Straight up and vertical!”
I was massively impressed by how fast you got a non-enturb order issued through channels. Were it only possible that DM would receive suitable goldenrod as rapidly….sigh. But, as my Dad always said: “Shit flows downhill”.
Tony, I was delighted to see you’r picture and know you are out of the PTS mess. I met you at Flag in about 2002 when I was starting OT6 and we would talk in front of the Oseola after course,my name is Peter. I had to go back to Australia after only three weeks and thakfully I never returned. You were trying to get back on 7 at that time. My experiences in the Church are similar to yours and everyone elses. Good to see you being OT now.
Dear Tony and Marie-Joe.
You look totally VVVGI’s. You obviously made the right move.
Its a testimony to your goodness and being on-purpose that you worked so hard for so long to do the right thing and get things sorted out.
Well, you spotted the threads of truth in this blog and the articles you mentioned and your now free again to reach for those stars.
Congratulations on your independence. Enjoy the long weekend.
I agree CD. What’s great about life is you can always change. The best people can change a whole paradigm by the hour if truth demands it. The essay “Self Reliance” by Emerson talks about this quite a bit.
Tony and Marie-Joe,
Great and well written declaration of Independence. It’s great to see more beautiful really smiling faces out!
Hi Sylvia,
My wife said she knew you from the BC and she was a big admirer of yours. I am sure she will respond separatly.
Thanks for all you are doing and blazing the way!
Tony
HI Karen!!
Thanks for the nice thoughts and I love that dream! I am sure that is more of a perception of the future rather than an idle dream.
Thanks for being there and communicating!!
Tony
Thanks Darla!
Yes, I know that I wasn’t “the only one” having troubles on Solo Nots. It sure was painful. I had some good moments too, but that just shows that the tech is powerful even with all the other craziness attached for “good measure”.
I do hope that this helps others as others have helped us!
ARC,
Tony
Tony & Marie-Joe,
A very brave and important announcement.
As OSA people often ask of us (in covert ways) what’s the Independent strategy, what’s the strat? After all they’re freeking out because they can’t figure it out.
Well, our “strategy”, if you want to call it that, can be summed up in just one word: T R U T H.
And your write up contains a massive, massive dose of just that.
At the rate the church is going if Ron did come back the first thing he’d probably do is dig through the declares, haha.
That’s where he would look to find those that would not stand for the destruction of the tech.
Sorry you had to go through so much:/ But Welcome to the other side!
I’m in awe of the number of people who are now coming to their senses and seeing for the first time from where the suppression is coming. It was so dangerous to become aware of it back in the earlier days, and no doubt formulaes could ever work. They weren’t even tolerated, not really, because there was no way you could do one, not standardly, since you were not allowed to ask the questions you needed to ask.
It began to hit me hard back in the early ’80s, but I stuck it out as long as I could. In trying to get data so I could handle my own doubts, I realized that every Scientologist was out Grade O, since they were forbidden to talk to any one or the CofS about their concerns. Then it dawned on me that huge bpc was being created when we were run on grades above an unflat Grade O.
I was going PTS to the CofS. Wow, try to put that into a conditions formula and see what happens.
In an attempt to handle my own doubts, I wrote 25 KRs to upper management, none of which received a response.
I wrote personal letters to DM, MY, GL and others, explaining my need to get things sorted out. The AOLA MAA at that time, Gary Jacobs, said he’d forward them for me. No response, so one day I went and grabbed my ethics file, and found that Gary had just dumped them all in there. I confronted him on it and I wrote more KRs, was give a Non-E order, threatened with an immediate on the spot Declare, so I immediately resigned.
That was 18 years ago.
I think a lot of those who went up the OT levels would get a great resurgence if they were run on Grade O, using the CofS and others as items on the grade, then fix up what was missed on the other grades due to the out Grade O. Not everyone would need to do so, but I know I sure did!!
Bravo Tony and Marie-Joe!
Tony, have you been able to resume your solo NOTS outside the chruch? If so information on that may be helpful to others in similar situations.
MaryJoe and Tony,
I loved your writing.
Vwd Mary-Joe of not falling into the trap of 3rd party against your Husband. This is an standard operating procedure in C.O.S, I could write a book about it and have seen many marriages being torn apart with that procedure.
Vwd Tony on being there and communicating (the biggest crime in this universe) and not giving up.
I know of several Ots that gave up speaking their minds and so could attest to ot8 and are living now in a “brave new world” and have the official status of OT8. They are at any event, giving money, giving a semblance of activity in the OTC and sometimes very shy, they natter a little bit, but they can’t communicate any more freely and honestly.
Again very well done and now you really will become OTs as Lrh wanted.
LO
Hello Tony and Marie-Joe….so happy to wake up this morning and be greeted by another powerful couple of Indies…I love your honour and integrity and strength in standing up and saying NO MORE.
Thank you for your excellent write up!
I don’t know how a new staff member could ever make it these days when he sees basic LRH policy he studies on the staff statuses being violated right before his eyes.
Is it any wonder orgs are shrinking?
Great write-ups. Congratulations on your new freedom; your new lives.
Tony, I hope you’ll demand the FSO refund every dime you spent on all those intensives of sec-checks.
Tony and Marie-Joe, Welcome!Wow what an adventure you both had. Very well done on your Independence. Your lives I am sure are changing for the better. I know for me, the expansion just keeps on a coming. It’s a beautiful thing ! No one needs a license to survive.
Tony I would not hesitate one second going after all that money paid for sec-checking. What occurred was CRIMINAL.
PlainOldThetan,
Maybe channels are more streamlined these days as there aren’t as many vias (humans) in the way of command intention.
Tony,
I was around San Diego in the seventies. When I saw your photo, I thought, “Hey, I know that guy.” But, it’s been a long time and we change, so I couldn’t place you.
That was back when the org moved from La Jolla to a store front at the edge of downtown. Later moved to some house owned by some parishioner up near the park.
What’s happening with the San Diego Org these days?
Michael
Well my friends, what can I say other than how proud I am of your courage.
You absolutely rocked the house at our org for literally decades, giving unprecedented help and assistance…. and they treated you like shit once you began asking questions.
Shame on them! Shame on our DSA. Shame on our E/D’s. They are not Scientologists. They are not worthy friends. They are criminals, extorting millions from our bank accounts for MEST, with heavy make-wrong and penalties for refusing to comply or even thinking for oneself.
Shame on them!!!
They are truly cowards. You guys know, as I do, that they are desperately trying to protect the big lie. Deep down they know better and we know it!
We’ll have to go out and celebrate soon!!!
Much ARC,
Idle Org
Tony and Marie-Jo – great to see your smiling faces here and read your very intelligent and perceptive announcement. It was goodto meet you guys up at Amy’s.
Jeff
Hi Mary-Joe and Tony, Wonderful right ups! I will be reading this more than once. I hope it is ok that I join in here. I guess you spurred me on!
What is so key is “what are we going for with Scientology?” I so agree with your points. The goal is freedom from Aberation, regaining of self-determinism, regaining certainty and abilities lost during the dwindling spiral. Recovering truth! Then, we can make a Real Civilization. I truly believe that if Scientology was truly being applied in the last 25 years, we would have a very different situation on this planet!
Where the church should be about validating theta and the spiritual side of things, it is more concerned with Mest.
Where the church should have the highest level of communication on the planet. It has one of the lowest. I think we all can fill in our own examples.
Where the church should be granting beingness and consulting the person’s self determinism – both out of respect for the thetan and for his betterment, we see force and invalidation.
Lastly,Per HCOB 10 June 1960 KSW series 33 “What we expect of a Scientologist” “…What do we expect of you? To become the best Scientologist that can be and to get on the comm lines of the world and bring a big win where it counts. We don’t expect you to hang up a shingle as a doctor and have a private practice. We’ll repect you if you do. But we’ll respect you just as much and even more if you get trained as a pro and go out and up in the world of action and of life…” LRH
Are our children being recruited with this in mind? Is their self-determinism consulted? And, if you hire a Scientologist to work in your business or join your club etc…and then they decide to join the Sea Org, is your business respected with a proper project prepare? I have my own experiences with this and have heard stories from friends. Would like to hear from others on this point.
So, again where the Church and Scientologists should have the best manners – well I am getting redundant.
Having said all of the above – I am confident, we can turn this all around. Afterall, we have the tech. We have the policy and at least referring to the Independent Scientologists and the many more Scientologists joining each day – we can think!
Again, Mary-Joe and Tony, Thank you and well done for keeping your integrity.
HELLO you beautiful thetans, you!!
OK, now I can read the writing.
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Dear Tony and Marie-Joe,
Wow! Your write -ups were great and very inspirational. Your persistence and the efforts you made to “correct” the Church were and are commendable. I am utterly amazed at all you went through. I know how hard this must have been for you. It is really a revelation when you find out that you are PTS to the organization that is supposed to resolve PTSNESS! And not only that, it was supposed to resolve it for the whole planet, and then you find out they are creating it! It takes a lot of confront to do what you did. Your write-ups are making it easier for me to take the final steps that I need to take.
Thank you for posting your experiences here. Hope to meet you soon!
Much Love,
Lady Minn
And another thing…..
I’ve known these two bright thetans for years and years.
They freakin’ rock!
They are opinion leaders!
They set the example and were loved by our field!
I am disgusted at the fear-bot cowards at my implant station….I mean….org!
That being said, anyone who comes to their senses and recants……I welcome with open arms into the Indie field!
How’s that for a reverse flow.
Lastly, thanks to Mr. Rathbun for giving my friends and all the rest of us a voice!
We may not be Sea Org or Management big wigs, but we’re damn good and important people.
ARC Tony and Marie-Jo!!!!! And Marta, too!
It’s thrilling to read your declaration and see your photo here. Seattle org and the C of M lost two amazing Scientologist when you left. Their loss is our gain!
Thank you for speaking out and sharing your story. I can’t wait to see you both. Hugs to you both.
Tony ~ did I count about 20+ intensives of eligibility? That right there screams of disgusting out-tech and funky metering, just unbelievable! God gawd, I wondered how you could even make up that much bad stuff to run – you’d have to be a full-time crim-de-la-crim and then still you’d run out of things to say! Which of course leads to end of endless repairs of repairs of repairs, ad infinitum…
I know when you’re stuck inside it, it looks different, but when you back up and see it as somebody else, well then you see you were actually an upstat being squashed down and hard!
I don’t believe it’s an accidental squashing anymore because I read stories like yours and Marie-Joe’s and the other good people’s here and every one of them was upstat yet systematically squashed down and ostracized and belittled, etc.
It takes longer for them to squash out public paying good money than it does auditors who don’t…
I’m sorry that happened to y’all, I really am.
I am so happy to see you and happy y’all left with your integrity in tact!
Fabulous! Wonderful! Excellent! Wooohooo! Thank you so much for joining us. I am so happy that you have – and very much looking forward to meeting you soon. 🙂 🙂
P.S. If you would write up your experiences with “disconnection”, especially in Affidavit form, then we will be one step closer to inundating the next “Anderson Cooper” expose with stacks of written affidavits and reports to show that DISCONNECTION IS ALIVE AND WELL IN THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY, OR HOW MANY LIES TOMMY DAVIS AND MONIQUE YINGLING TELL.
Thanks,
Lady Minn
To Marie-Joe and Tony. Wow! My greatest admiration to you both. The write-ups were very illuminating.
Reading this I saw very clearly just how deeply imbedded the whole bullying/extortion culture is now ingrained into the CofM. Anything that isn’t the Party Line is branded “enemy line” or worse. DM’s personality is really reflected in the whole modus operandi of the Church, right into the field at every level.
It reminded me of when I started asking legitimate questions, I was told to write up more O/Ws, as if anything anything wrong I observed was simply the result of my own evil. I think LRH says somewhere (MOQ?) that making others guilty of their own overts is the most suppressive thing anyone can do. Towards the end of my enquiries in the Org I was being made to feel like a criminal, and guilty of everything – to the point where I realised I could not be part of this group and maintain personal integrity any more. It was one or the other – but not both.
I applaud you both for standing true to your integrity and may you continue to be an example to many others. Thank you.
Dear
Tony, Marie-Joe and Marta
Thank you so much for standing up for what is right and in so doing defending LRH and Scientology by assigning correct cause to what is happening to both.
With both the Scientology and LRH being dragged through the mud due to the enemies to that DM has created, it is vital that OTs stand up and be counted if we have any hope to salvage our religion.
I admire your courage and integrity deeply. I know once you’re ‘out’ it can seem quite simple and is beautiful and liberating, but I also know from experience that the journey can be painful and restimulative in the extreme.
Welcome to the sunshine and the theta that is the just reward for your courage. So happy to meet you here. You made my day 🙂
Hi Tony and Marie-Joe. So nice to “see” the both of you again. If you haven’t met these two (three for the sake of Marta’s presence in the pic too..) you are missing out on the warmth that washes over your face by their presence. I know I’ve said this before to the both of you but again… thank you both so very much for maintaining your personal intergity. You know LRH would be very thankful of you two for doing so! Anytime you are in Portland, contact me so we can hang out again. It was way too short of time spent together during Amy;s release. — Jackson
PS
Really really really happy after reading your write-up that I made the decision not to give in to pressure to stay at Flag for OT VI and VII.
Whew! dodged a bullet!
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Can Marty or anyone tell me what happens if you audit or start an “org” outside of the Church? I know they label you a squirel, but can they shut you down?
It doesnt make sense to me that you couldnt practice Scientology freely outside the church. How can they own Scientology?
I can see some legal right they have to the materials, but that would just mean an independent org couldnt sell books and materials. But they could buy them, and you can always buy the books and materials somewhere.
You could have a library of materials. It doesnt violate copyright to own a library of books and materials if they arent illegal copies.
Surely they cant stop you from auditing and training as an independent org.
It wouldnt violate trademark law if you made it obvious that you were NOT the Church of Scientology.
I’ve just been thinking about the future recently.
I think floods of people would leave COS if there were a few good, Independent KSW-style orgs and they had some confidence they were on-source with LRH.
Dear Marta and Larry,
What a joy having you both as friends!!
We look forward to lots of LOL’s!! And lots of good BBQ’s without any BOTS!!
ML,
Tony
Hi Tom!
Thanks for the nice communication. You are an example of why we got into Scientology in the first place.
ARC,
Tony
Thanks Cat!!
I appreciate you helping us bring down the suppression!!
Welcome (publically) to the bright side of the road Tony and Marie Joe!! Can’t wait to meet you!!
Love Mosey!
IO,
Damn, I sure wish you’d just go ahead and tell us how you really feel, eh? 🙂 Rock on!
Holy cow! What an engram — I mean adventure — I mean engram!! Well done, both of you, for standing up to this BS!
The terminals you dealt with have thrown LRH out the window and are doing whatever they damn well please to justify the overts they are committing on a continual basis. They wouldn’t know an actual SP if one hit them square in the face. It truly is reverse Scientology when people with your stats get labeled as enemies.
freescn.com,
Thanks for the nice ack.
I look forward to you coming out when you are ready and reading your “story”. Comint out into the open is very liberating and my wife and I have been making some good “case gain” from it.
Scientology is about truth. Exact time,place form and event. Part of that is WHO I am and what my name is. That is part of the exact incident. when we hear our friends stories it is real reality and it increases the ARC of what happened to our group. When I read and heard what happened to Marty, Amy, Jeff, Steve, Geir etc I was friggin infuriated. I knew it was true!! I didn’t need to hear (even though I looked at the Freedom Mag) the churches side. I already had enough evidence for a conviction in my own mind.
Thanks POT,
You have been a beacon of leadership. Thanks for all that you are doing for the cause!
G-day Pirate!!
I’m sure I would remember you if you sent me a picture. a.dephillips@comcast.net
I had many a “conversation” while I sweated it out waiting for my ok to get onto Solo Nots. I think overall you are very lucky you missed all that unnecessary sec checking at huge expense. That was very OT of you. I hope you drop me a line as I would like to rehab that conversation.
ARC,
Tony
Thanks crashingupwards!!
You have a nice weekend as well.
Thanks Sinar,
We hope to meet you soon and hear some more of your stories up close and personal.
🙂
Tony
Than you Mary-Jo! You were such an inspiration for us. When we saw your KR last summer we were cheering in our living room as we were reading each paragraph. That was so amazing! Each point you were bringing up we had observed ourselves & several of them we had reported ourselves on.
I felt like hoping on a plane right then & there to come visit you. But we hadn’t quite decided how we were going to handle the situation at that time. I still had hope that we could handle it from within the group & save the day 🙂 Alas, we rapidly realized it would not be possible.
Dear T Payne,
You have been a real inspiration for me. Your writings and logic are awe inspiring.
I wanted to get out of Scientology the qualities that you exhude. I have gotten some of them through hard work and diligence and am on my way toward more. I would rather be in a smaller goup of incredible honorable beings than a larger phoney group that are pretending to be about truth.
Thanks again for all that you and your wife Lucy are doing and have done for Mankind.
Hi Victoria,
Thanks for the nice words. I always enjoy your posts. I can recognize a kindred spirit.
Tony
Hi Pat, you have a wonderful website. I look forward to meet you.
Tony and Marie-Joe,
Thank you so much for your stories and welcome to the independent field!
Your story gives me hope that maybe sometime soon my own sister and her husband will likewise start reading the internet and the numerous stories out there and come to their senses too.
They are public Scientologists living in the CW area and have been disconnected from me for almost 20 years now and have been disconnected from my brother for almost 30 years.
They too have been trapped in the house of cards built by DM saying that we are all “SPs” when all we were objecting to was the abuse. Not LRH. DM and his abuse. They have been used as pawns by DM and OSA to try to silence me and it doesn’t work any more.
I can now confidently count the days to my family reconnecting again after all these years thanks to your stories.
Thanks to what Marty, Mike and the rest of the independents out there are doing, there is now hope for change.
Mark Fisher
Dear Bobo,
Your words moved me.
I appreciate all that you did long ago and are still doing. I also want to ack all the “old timers” who were cast aside years ago and with no real structure to fight back. The amount of stuff written and the amount that was done starting way back in the 80’s is truly amazing.
I do feel that some of the old timers have not really been fully acknowledged for what they did to blaze the trail for us newer rebels.
The way I see it is that we are all on the same team. We may have different ideas about how to go about changing things, but the common denominator is that we can comminicate and grant some beingness. (I liked that grade 0 idea by the way!!)
I do think we will get the job done.
Thanks for your kind words,
Tony
Boyd —
Before I let the comment on the rumor of Declare pass, I wanted to confirm that the latest lost Tech sure seems to be the perfection of 3rd Party. There are minions of the church who issue emails with “do not communicate to these individuals.” Now in my case, I have not seen *any* golden rod. But I do have it on really good authority that that has happened.
If I had received the evidence direct, it really would not be 3rd party would it?
Bruce Pratt
LOL, that’s a good mantra Boyd.
Thanks for the kind words. Not interested in a comm-ev though. I don’t trust their justice. All we get are evals & invals so I’d rather just disconnect & spent time creating my future 🙂
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the ack. No, I haven’t been auditing on Solo Nots. Ethics has to go in before tech right?? When you find the correct ethics sit and it indicates you can get tons of gain. Right now putting ethics in on the church is getting my TA flipping around. I will run that till flat.
Tony
Thanks LO,
Your writing has always had a big effect on me.
You seem very intelligent and refined.
I am happy to have a communication line to someone of your caliber.
Tony
Welcome Tony and Marie Joe! So glad to “meet” you here!
Meisha
Hi Lise,
I am happy to be on your ranks. When I saw you come out it was really impressive. A tech terminal of high quality. It really is irritating to see the CofM waste so many good beings. As someone else said earlier. “Their loss, our gain”.
Fair dinkum, (?)
Tony
“The greatest overt act in the world is making other people guilty of overt acts. That is the greatest overt act in the world – about which, more later. So don’t think at this moment that I’m trying to make you guilty of overt acts! The only thing I’m trying to do to you is get you Clear! That’s all I’ve got in mind. And that’s why no resistance, no attack for ten years has
been able to get anywhere on Dianetics and Scientology. Because basically, as far as
the subject is concerned, there was nothing to hide. That’s why we’re still alive.”
State of Man Congress
1 Jan 60
RESPONSIBILITY
Bruce Pratt
A/MOQ/IT (in training)
You want to talk about out-tech and funky metering? I know someone who at the FSO around 2000 – 2001 doing a “redo” of OT VII said it was so bad the examiner was putting in BUTTONS!!
Thanks Quicksilver! I know what you mean. So many times I see comments on this blog & others & I tell myself “Wow, I could have written these exact words”. We have so much in common. That was one thing that really shocked me when I started looking on the internet. Before I thought I was the only one observing/feeling critical of the outpoints & suddenly I was finding out that 100s of people from all over the world were observing & thinking similar things.
Looking forward to read your story.
I hear ya Axiom!!
Beautiful Silvia! It was such a blowdown for me when I saw your declaration. You always had been an OL for me. You still are. Sending you a big hug!
Hey. I am soooo late to this party welcoming y’all to the even more free and INDEPENDENT world. So I have a “ditto” to all the above welcomes.
Bruce Pratt
“I love that dream! I am sure that is more of a perception of the future rather than an idle dream” I agree 100%. Stay tune. You never whose beautiful face might appear on this blog next 🙂
So, Tony. I gots to ask now.
Why Alex Metheny?
I got nada, butkis on a google search.
This inquiring mind would like to know.
Thanks.
Bruce Pratt
Thanks watching eyes.
I am not sure if refunding the unnecessary sec checking is realistic. I would hope the church would do the right thing on their own someday. I know now that they won’t.
I used the analogy before about someone buying a used car and it breaking down on the way home. You get in comm with the dealership and they say ” what did you do wrong??” They don’t handle it so you tell some friends about it and go to the better buisness bureau. finally the used car dealership says, “Ok, what’s the problem??” You tell them. Then they say “well we can fix all that.” “But first, we want you to tell all your friends that it was all a big mistake and retract your letter to the BBB, then we will take a look at fixing your problem.” Ya right!!
Linda, I admire & appreciate all that you & Tom have been through.
Don’t hesitate to send our write up to whomever it might help. If more direct comm is needed, just let us know. I’m happy to get in comm with anybody who reaches out or has questions.
Thanks Carol.
Yes it is quite a process, but very rewarding too.
My wife and I go to Arizona every now and then and would love to meet you and your husband sometime.
ARC,
Tony
Dear Michael,
You are correct. I used to be on staff at the San Diego Org. I was a lot younger then. In my early 20’s. I was the ethics officer there for awhile and used to be married to a lady named Judy who was later to be the ED there at the “house” near Balboa Park. We had some crazy times back in the day. do you remember Larry Hanson the big guy who was the supervisor?? How about Joe Fowles??
E-mail me sometime if you want to reminisce. I live in Seattle now so don’t really keep up with San Diego anymore. Although I think they have BOT-ITIS down there as well.
🙂
Tony
Marta & Larry, we are so proud to have you as friends. You are 2 very gentle souls & we enjoy your company very much.
Big props to Marta for her great editing skills!
Namaste
Hey Idle Org!!
You make me blush..
You are such a kind and smart person and MJ and I are so glad that we were able to retain our friendship through all of this madness. As an SP, I find it hard to see you as anything but an enemy but you are SO THETA you always manage to snap me back into my true beingness!! LOL!!
Much Love,
Tony
Alex and Mary-Jo,
TOP NOTCH write ups. I salute you.
These days an SP declare is Badge of Honor.
SPs these days are the Pioneers that blazed the trail for others to follow.
There are very specific reasons why I have not come out YET……
But I applaud you, send you High Fives, Salutations, respect and affection.
Looking forward to meeting at a future get-together.
much love,
War and Peace
Freescn, I just added your site to my favorite. You are not alone. If you haven’t gotten in comm with Jim Logan, please do so. He’s the firsst person I thought of when I read your blog. Looking forward to see your smiling face & hear your story when your ready.
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the kind words, coming from you that means a lot!!
I cried when I read your story. And you were a big part of our decision to put ethics in on the church. You were the cream of the cream. ( still are) I would never want to be part of a group that would treat someone like you the way you have been treated. Do they really expect us to believe that this is all a conspiracy to bring down DM??Because you all are hurt that you are no longer there??? WTF!! I my not be the smartest guy on Earth but I am not a friggin retard!!
Another thing is I can hang with whoever I want to!! I know you don’t consider yourself a Scio anymore and that is ok with me. I can understand it after the shillacking you took. But I know you are not an “SP” and I really respect your writings and capacity for logic and my wife and I still want to take you out for dinner the next time we go down to Portland.
🙂
Tony
Marie-Jo,
I highly recommend you read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
There is an entirely relevant clause about changing one’s religion.
One can resign one religion for another, and one has that human right.
I highly highly doubt that the free Scientologists who are practicing Scientology therapy in the world today would EVER penalize their fellow free Scientologists for resigning or leaving free Scientology.
I think it best for people still in official Scientology to do like you did, resign, and that they ALSO bring along a copy of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, and read official Scientology staff that it is YOUR human right to resign one church or religion and choose another.
I urge MORE usage of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, that religious changing clause.
One religion has no right to penalize and deny a person their right to change their religion or church.
Chuck Beatty
Chuck, I think you have it backwards. We never changed our religion, DM and co did.
I can’t look at the picture of you guys and not drop every and anything and just wallow in the life.
I have not met you formally, but somehow you are familiar to me. Familiar like home.
Yes, like free, creative, infinite.
Thanks Boyd,
I already knew that you appreciated it. I had instant ARC with you. I duplicate you.
I am having more fun lately with all this. To me this is Scientology. Getting to the truth and working out handlings for real that make sense. Not phoney PR. I can recall hearing LRH say that he couldn’t stand phonies. Boy he would be pissed now!!
IO, you’ve been an inspiration with all your contributions.
For all of you that don’t know IO, IO his a very gently soul. I’ll keep my additional comments for your comming out party 😉
Sending you a big hug!
Hello Tony and Marie Joe!
So nice to see you, although I’ve *known* you in your posts, and a rose by any other name …:)
Wow, what you’ve been through.!!
What a doozy, isn’t it, PTS to one’s own church, to the hand extended in “help.” But here you are! Well done to each of you! This is for you…
oh, and so nice to see Marta in the pic. Also hello all here! Loving you and grateful.
Now for the song … (and that’s me at 1:59 in the video 😉 (in spirit, how I feel when I see everyone here)
The UN Declaration of Human Rights allows one the human right to change one’s religion.
This is pretty much an intellectual issue.
Free independent Scientologists are technically still Scientologists, I pretty much think all scholars would agree.
The independent and freezone Scientologists have a much nicer reputation for NOT tromping on their members, NOT needing to threaten and harry their fellow practitioners.
I think the UN Declaration of Human Rights gives you free Scientologists the right to practice your religion as you see fit.
Scientology is a therapy religion, the main practice is the spiritual therapy.
You have a right, at least here in America, to practice it.
I think scholars will call you a religion and if you drop all the business and offensive irreligious stuff official Scientology does, then you in my opinion win the battle of being considered even MORE like a religion than the charade official Scientology is currently pulling.
Check out the UN Declaration of Human Rights.
I think it applies.
Chuck
☼ Jim, so true, and beautifully expressed (home)
Actually Tony, tech comes before ethics. LRH on the Class VIII course goes into it in detail. It makes sense. You have the tech, you create admin to get the lines under control that the tech creates, then you put in ethics when things go awry.
Get back on your solo NOTS asap. Get the tech back in.
Hi Bruce,
Funny story on this one. First I started as “Alex” just because i liked the name. Then a couple of other guys started posting as Alex and I didn’t want to be confused with them. I added Metheny becasue I love the music by Pat Metheny, the jazz guitarist. What was funny is that Annonymous has a list of a few hundred people who have spoken out against the church. They added AleMetheny to the list as if he was a real person. LOL!! On the list they even said he was on staff in Germany or somethin like that. LOL!! I created a synthetic identity that will live on for eternity!!
Well done on keeping your personal integrity and insisting on being yourselves and being free.
One of those who sees,
Thanks you for that amazing writing!! I am glad to have you as part of the team here. Hope to hear your story someday!!
ARC,
Tony
Jeff, your story turned my world upside down. How had I been sacrificing (I’m not just talking about $ & free time but also personal integrity) so much to support a group that treats its members in such a way? When I first started your story I can honestly say I was in doubt. Should I stay or should I go? By the time I finished your story, I was so disgusted with Management I was ready to walk out.
Thank you for your courage. Looking forward to come visit you soon. Maybe we can come down for your book release 🙂
Thanks Lady Minn,
We hope to meet you too someday soon. It really is very liberating saying who you really are!!
We know it is a process. I can tell also that you are a high confornt and uptone thetan. I could never understand how the church could be so willing to throw these thetans on the scrap heap. The arrogance the church has had over the last few ,several years, is appalling.
I’m up for anything that will help bring about change and is legal. The means is the end right??
IO, you make me blush….
blush…blush….
Yeah Marty you rock!!!
🙂
Tony
Well then maybe the advertisement should be rather:
“If you are feel no where to go, and you are still a Scientologist, there’s the free independent Scientologist and freezone.”
I imagine the freezone Scientologists have already crossed this bridge several decades ago.
I was thinking, myself, when I was trying to figure out HOW to get out of the RPF, when I was on it, in 1997, I read the UN Declaration of Human Rights, and read the clause on changing one’s religion, and saw that as a ray of light for getting out from underneath all the barriers to getting OUT of the Sea Org that faced me at that time while on the Int RPF out at Happy Valley, “Castille Canyon Ranch” the first time I really wanted OUT of the Sea Org for real.
The UN Declaration of Human Rights are still there for those that might be able to use it to their advantage.
Chuck
Hi Natalie!!
Natalie is our good friend from way back when she was on staff at the Seattle Org.
I think she was our last really good PES.
Well….aughhhh…it’s nice being out in the fresh air! Isn’t that the sweet smell of freedom??
Smells like…..VICTORY!!
Natalie, I was so thrilled when I saw your beautiful face on this blog! Especially because I had no idea that you were also seeing what we were seeing. Your decleartion helped me increase my confront. I hope ours does the same for others. I’m very excited about seeing you soon & meeting your family. Hugs back at you.
Bruce,
No matter what he may say, I’d love to hear you make something up. Splurge. ‘Alex Metheny’ the man who invented gravity. How?
Nice Bruce! Here is another from the Tech Dictionary:
BASIC OVERT ACT, making somebody else want mest. (HCOB 17 Mar 60)
That just kind of says it all, doesn’t it?
Wow Tara,
You struck a nerve on that one!!
Yes you did count over 20 intensives and that was just to get on the Level the three times I did. Not counting all the “refreshers” I did.
Why they called it refreshers I will never know.
I can get case gain from almost anything. If you asked me a repetitive question on “why do you like to work?” or anything mundane like that I think I would get gains.
The sec checking got so oppressive though it got to be too much. With the f/n problems I would have sec check sessions that would grind on and on. The auditors putting in button after button to try to get the thing to f/n. It is actually painful to try to recall all of that.
As I said I did have gains mostly early on getting off overts and withholds.
But the more it went on the more and more solid it got. Dwelling on masturbation type stuff and minutia, just to try to appease the auditor and c/s so I could be considered clean or good.
I knew early on it wasn’t for me, it was for them.
But I wanted to “go free” so I cooperated like a good little robot until it got to be too much and then I said “HELL NO!!” this is not going to go on anymore!!
A thetan in good shape will only take so much bullshit. And then he gets pissed. Getting pissed can be very therapeutic if done at the right moment.
🙂
Tony
Thanks Chuck!!
That makes a lot of sense. I still want you in the new religion as you describe it. We need smart people like you and we can get you through grade 0 too!! LOL!!
Anyways, I think your a cool guy.
ARC,
Tony
Hi guys, Graet post. I hadn’t gotten to talk to you yet about how you got started in the church so thanks for the full story. It’s great that you guys were around and willing to hook up when I decided to resign. I had thought that other than Mat and Amy, I would not see any of my friends for some time, and you guys invited us into the group right away. Other than family all of my friends for the last 29 years have been scientologists, and it’s a bit tough to adjust to not knowing anyone who knows about ARC, KRC etc.
Call on us anytime for any reason
Mark
Wow, you guys are all so awesome! Marta had warned us to get ready for an incredible ride once our declaration would get posted.
An incredible ride it is!
I haven’t had a chance to respond to all yet but I will try in the next couple days.
I was sad thinking I had lost some friends but I probably have more friends now than I ever had before.
Here’s a bit more info about me in the hopes of re-connecting with old friends.
I’m french Canadian 🙂 & my maiden name is Marie-Josee Roy.
I got in Scientology in 1989 at the Sherbrooke (QC, Canada) Mission.
1989-1993 CC Montreal & Montreal Org.
1993- Jan 2010 Seattle Org.
2010- proud to be an Independent Scientologist 🙂
I did OTI-IV in Jan-March 2002 at AOLA.
OTV in March 2008 at AOLA.
I was on the BC at ASHO from 2004-2009 a few weeks every 6 months or so.
I’ve never been on staff or in the SO but was always really active on the OTC’s
If you have ever met me, please get in comm. You can contact me at mariejoe@comcast.net. English is my 2nd language so I’m not always super fast in responding but I will respond 🙂
I just wanted to say that I am so friggin keyed out!!
I realized that when you NOT-IS something, (like what is going on in your own church) you build up mass on it. Well, this has been a major blow down getting the truth and linking up with all of you awesome thetans!!! I love it!! My needle is floating and I didn’t have to sit at the examiners station for 5 minutes to wait to hear it called…
Hey Tony,
Great to see you here!
Beyond pleased. Welcome!
My congratulations to you and Marie Joe, for maintaining your personal integrity.
Your write ups were excellent and all that you did contribute in the name of helping others was amazing.
I arrived recently, but it was a long time coming.
If you want to say hi, my contact info is on my web site.
By the way, you look great! It’s been a long time.
Warmest Thoughts and to a beautiful future for you and Marie Joe!
Penny
Hi Tony
You are absolutely right, we are on the same side, we are able to comm, and granting Beingness to Beings is Standard Operating Procedure. To not do so is degrading to the one not doing it.
It is a great thing that now there are structures available for the ‘disenchanted’ to grasp hold of, and keep themselves steady as they seek truth. Prior to the internet, we were all alone. No one knew who to talk to, no one knew who was disaffected, you were utterly, completely isolated. There was NO comm at all, none. Either you denied your knowingness and succumbed in order to continue, weird when you think of it, or you were a Robinson Crusoe, alone on a deserted island. I was a coward and I denied what I knew, I assumed I was ‘bad’, for years, for years and years and years. That is the most tramatic episode of my journey, my self doubts, my personal degredation in my own eyes. I believed in LRH, what he had done, what he suffered in order to do it, and for me to be in a situation where I was questioning the whole thing, how could it have come to that? I was bad. I used to read the OEC volume on HCO, over and over in order to understand myself. I memorized, practically, every paragraph in the Scientology Bible, the ‘Science of Surival’ on SPs, though not called SPs at the time, knowing with absolute certainty that I was going to be declared, knowing that I was going to lose all that mattered to me, my life, my friends, my family, my dreams… I read it over and over and over, trying to handle myself.
And all that while trying to get up the Bridge.
And again you are right, together we will get the job done. The tech of LRH cannot be allowed to disappear from the face of the earth. It cannot be allowed to tremble, to be diminished, to be ursurp even by governments, as LRH predicted it would be, by the way.
It must be kept pure.
As you may recall on the OT 2 films and data, the only time you can ‘change’ the tech is when the meanings of the words change, and so people are not going Clear. As far as I know, that is the only reference that allows for changes in tech.
I’m glad you are here. Keep auditing.
Dear Tony & Mary Joe,
Thank you for your TRUTH. You are definitely loved by all of us (your new friends).
Alex and FTF,
Well, it worked. My dear friend had read mine, and Eileen Clark’s and now yours and it put her over the top. The truth is powerful. She’s got some work to do before she “comes out” but that’s understood.
Linda
Reading the email exchange and the Non-Enturb order one can only shake one’s head and observe that these staff are quite literally insane.
…and what always surprises me is that I can say “been there, done that”.
Hey hey you guys!!! You did it! What a great way to start my day today..opening up this blog and seeing those great faces I met at Amy’s.
Thank you for seeing this through…and for all the long hard years of persisting and doing the best you could to “handle from within”..and all the years of dedication to LRH.
Love
Sherry Katz
Tony,
VWD on your posting, it is really good.
Mary Jo, thanks to your KR you lead the way on this one, you did your job.
I hope others are taking notice. Enough is enough.
My God! This is good news! I’m very glad you guys have officially joined our team. None of your handlings is news to me having been on the other side of the fence. It’s a shame that even Nots auditors can’t audit anymore inside the church. It takes me no effort at all to audit my pcs, mostly OTs on whatever is really needed fot them. Nobody complains even when I ask for their overts, simply because I audit them at cause instead of suppressing them with squirrel practices. My assistance is at your disposal, feel free to ask.
Welcome out. 🙂
To me, you and others like you represent the current and future trend for the CofS. The good people will, more and more, leave. Therefore, DM and his minions will be ultimately diminished. Eventually everyone who is still “in” will come to their senses about all the outpoints and just separate themselves from all the non-Scientology that goes on there. So, congrats on moving on! Welcome!!
To all those who have take a stand,
for all those who are still thinking of taking a stand,
from the man who has always spoken his mind:
“I’m not afraid to take a stand
Everybody come take my hand
We’ll walk this road together, through the storm
Whatever weather, cold or warm
Just let you know that, you’re not alone
Hola if you feel that you’ve been down the same road”
Loved reading your write-ups! No more group judging your way of life, no more suppression of thought.
The story about your OT7, Alex, could have been my own. I got chills thinking about it.
It is great reading! Welcome!
Thanks for your beautiful ack (some salty water in my eyes).
Whoever posted as “Chairman of the Bored” is not me. Scary. Bob Johnson here.
Tony and Mary-Joe,
Wow! Your story of your Flag experience is very close to mine. Tony, I have seen you around the Sandcastle. I was on VII and decided to turn my materials in and walk away. What ensued was just pure chaos on the Church’s part. That was one of many eye opener’s. The final result of that was not care or help but an ethics summons from Alfonso, Dir I&R FSO saying I was out ethics for not being on the level and I was to report back to the implant station immediately. (I have a copy of that email if anyone wants to see it, turns out it was a bulk email to everyone off of VII).
Good to know you can’t be bossed around!
Ha! I had a feeling it was Pat Metheny, one of my favs too. Great write up you guys. I can see this helping others on SN to see the truth, yeah, sec checks gone wild…well done.
That’s a darn good cog. In my case they were used remove any IAS extortion counter-intention.
Once merely a technical matter, now exclusively a political tool.
Total squirreling of the Tech.
They should hand out certs for these type of declares.
SP Number: 12,345,789 … and still 2,348,612 to go … before everyone else is too … lol
Not having enough money may soon become an act suppressive to the IAS.
They’d probably do best if everyone left.
I had no idea that 3 out of 7,000 Sea Org members leaving has such a monumental statistical effect … lol
They could probably then double their Stats if 3 more were kicked out and achieve “Vertical & Straight Up” … lol
lol.
Well Tony I would have to say in the most aussie way:
The Independent Scientologists are the best of the best and that is Fair Dinkum (aussie saying denoting something is true)
Hi Tony & Marie Jo,
Well done on getting out from under the yoke of constant sec checks and regging for donos…Welcome and congratulations.
I hope you are thinking about requesting your IAS and Idle Org donos back. You can always file an amended IRS return and pay taxes on the amounts. But you would be reducing the fuel the CO$ requires to burn through people and your donations were not insubstantial!
There was an address and contact info on the previous post about the IAS (interesting that IAS is just one letter off from IRS!)…Good luck!
Vicki
Tony & Marie-Joe,
Congratulations on your cognitions, personal strength, and escape to freedom. I’m very happy for you. I’m particularly happy that you were able to stay together throughout your ordeal. We’ve seen too many families torn apart by the disconnection policy of the Church of Scientology, and it is good to hear of one that escaped intact. For me, your loyalty to each other is the most inspiring part of your story.
As is sometimes my wont, I cross-posted your story to the Ex Scientologist Message Board (ESMB):
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=18296
I also cross-posted your story to Why We Protest (WWP), the home of Anonymous on the web:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/325-marty-rathbun/tony-dephillips-marie-joe-dephillips-leave-church-scientology-67403/
I did so with respect. I understand that you are now Independent Scientologists who see value in the Tech. I understand and respect that. I cross-post in an effort to further communication and understanding between the various groups. As I’ve said before, I recall learning that communication is the universal solvent.
If you are interested, I can recommend the Ex Scientologist Message Board [ http://www.forum.exscn.net/index.php ]. Despite the name, it has a lot of “Tech” people — albeit mostly Freezoners. It is a pretty warm and supportive place.
I would caution you, however, about Why We Protest [ http://forums.whyweprotest.net/ ] , the home of Anonymous. It can be a rough and critical crowd, to say the least. Still, I post there to do my part to try to keep everyone educated, informed and communicating. In addition, Anons have been caring and helpful to me regarding a painful disconnection situation that came to light on ESMB.
Again, congratulations on your freedom. Please know that I’ve seen people express happiness and support for you everywhere your story has been posted or discussed.
— Kha Khan
Bruce, Indeed. I clarified my thoughts. The only reason to squirrel justice procedures, which is what they do, would be if you’re protecting a squirrel. If a nasty squirrel movement formed, it’s so easy for a good management to bat it down by taking the key members and comm-eving them then declaring and issuing BPI.
DM can’t do that, all the references are on our side.
You make a terrific point, “I can hang with whoever I want.”
Jeff is an amazing writer and some of the things he writes are very profound. Look at how much he has allowed each of us to extend our viewpoints.
Cat daddy often comes out with very astute words.
All the “not in good standing” people who really just got blown off the bridge and are getting rehabilitated.
For me, being an Independent just takes “inhibit” right off, I would have none of these comm lines from which I have gained so much KRC and ARC inside the church.
This is a great post, Tony. Like you, I recognise that we are able to stand as we do, and to know what we know, because others fought to make that information available at a time when it was much more lonely to be speaking out against the CoS.
Hello my friends,
Thank you for your courage, for your strenght and for your thoroughness. I specially appreciated te specifics, time, place form and event and the evidence to boot!
Veritas, that is one of my all time favorite songs.
However, it’s OK if someone else wants to use my handle; we just need to be aligned on this.
I hope no one regards Marty;s blog as a “natter board”. The fact of the matter is that this blog is a community and a moderated blog. If you find your own viewpoints are not consistent with this blog, then perhaps you should find or create a forum more attune to your own religious beliefs.
DFB, I think you’ve got the legalities right.
But I’m not a US Lawyer.
Go forward.
What a great joy to see you, Tony and Marie-Joe, and to celebrate your new-found freedom from suppression.
Marie-Joe, I was struck by your observation that the only options the church wanted you to have were to stay and conform or leave and be evil. Thankfully, they don’t get to decide who is evil and you are not.
God bless you both and I wish you much joy and peace.
I got that too, Jim. I have this persistent FN just being part of this exchange of theta surrounding Tony and Mary Joe.
>I think floods of people would leave COS if there were a few good, Independent KSW-style orgs and they had some confidence they were on-source with LRH.
DFB, I agree. The more visible the indie scene becomes, the less power the CoS will inevitably have, imho.
This intensive has been pretty cheap too! 😉
Bobo,
I’m glad YOU are here. Very glad. Well done on persistence mate, that’s the dynamic in action and you’ve got it in spades.
Tony and Marie-Joe, wow! Thank you for writing this. It is clear that the purpose of the CoS has now deteriorated into nothing more than the self-preservation of a squirrel SP and the contagion of his aberration. Thankfully, the bubble that has been so deftly created has now burst. Your declaration is a shining example of this. 🙂
Darla,
I couldn’t find your post, Linda, but I just wanted to say that’s wonderful news. I am so happy for you!
Woohoo! Thanks for sharing the great news.
A present for Jim Logan
“scientology litigation kit ”
“Sources to defend oneself with
when sued by Scientology.
(Anyway, I used them, and won.) ”
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/idx_coskit.html
Tony,
Your write-up reminded me of a letter I got from an OSA-ite a couple of months back. He was relaying to me the viewpoint emanating from on high relative to public on the upper levels.
Here’s a couple of snips from one of those letters:
“The way I see it COB is saying to these OT8s, that if they want to be OT 8s, then they can forget about taking off and doing their own things and watching butterflies in the woods.”
“He demands that they be part of the team, and he puts them under real pressure to do so.”
“I don’t want people like xxxx and yyyy and so on drifting off and claiming to be OT8, and yet not having their shoulder to the wheel and pushing 5 times harder than the rest of us. If they won’t do that, then in my book they are not OT at all. Forget being ‘self determined’ for now. Pull your freight!”
“There is only one person that has the balls to enforce this and that is COB. I applaud him. I say “right on.” Sure it makes some of them squeal. But so what?”
Now the above is filtered through to this person and that’s his interpretation of ‘command intention’. He is well placed in the hierarchy though so that’s a pretty good rendition of the ‘command’.
What does it portray?
DM considers that those public who get to the upper levels are HIS objects. They have no right to decide on their own self-determinism, what game to play. They OWE him. He after all allowed them to do the upper levels and now they are his.
This ‘think’ is spurious. It is sophistry. Here is an LRH policy on the subject:
” No good worker OWES his work. That’s slavery.
We don’t OWE because we do BETTER. One would owe only if one did worse.” PL 6 Mar 66, Rewards and Penalties, Vol O.
Perhaps the letter from the OSA guy will help some of you out there understand the viewpoint that brings that pressure to bear on you; it’s contempt and it emanates from David Miscavige.
Testimony McShane in RTC vs Panoussis, May 1998
In which McShane declares under oath that the OT materials have been read by 20 to 25 thousand people. Based on this, the Dutch court in The Hague decided that the OT levels should be considered to have been legally published, and that one is thus allowed to quote from them.
Hi Tony, yes, I remember you!
And Marie-Joe, it is very rewarding to know that my KR helped you guys and supported your own struggle. I hope to meet up with you both in the near future.
Enjoy your freedom, each day it gets better and better!
Love,
Mary Jo
Tony, Just as a note, on the no F/N “problem”. Do you realize you could have had a dial-wide FN that only swung twice and it would not be indicated? Whereas a 1/2 inch ” three-swing F/N” would occur in far less time than the above much wider F/N/ and be accepted. The FPRD is supposed to result in more space and havingness, not less compounded with solidity. Intentional overrun= spiritual abuse.
I really appreciated your story and the fact that you have held true to LRH.
Tony,
Don’t remember Larry. Did know Joe. He was quite the character. If you were the ethics officer, you would have been pulling your hair out over me as I was ahead of the curve on being an independent.
I just set up a hushmail account. Don’t know how to use it yet. But: picovolt@hushmail.com
Michael
You’ve been given the similar runaround treatment I got back in 1985. I don’t put up with such for so long. It’s inhumane.
Thanks for the info Tony. Yes getting in life ruds makes sense.
Personally I believe the more people soloing NOTS the better. The effects are far reaching. And it being done outside the church is a blow to their….out ethics. Along the lines of flourish and prosper in the face of suppression.
I dont want to evaluate for you specifically, but do want to evangalize for the level and its effects.
Perhaps anyone else reading this who is soloing NOTS outside the church and can let others know it can be done and how?
yeah, that’s how it works!. The post is closer to the top (for any one else’s info)…about the 26th or so posting (under Darla).
ML, Linda
Oh wow Jim, they are being quite overt now, aren’t they? That is exactly right, as an VIII you are allowed NO self-determinism and you are in fact owned like a slave. Not only does it emanate from DM but it is forwarded by many, many. And anyone who forwards that shows his slave color, his brand.
That is why so many VIIIs have disappeared – and I mean that literally. You finish VIII and if you have any sense you need to run for the hills! An excuse can simply be that you are broke and need to handle debts – and they do know you are flat broke and heavily in debt by the time they are done with you and let you get off that Ship.
More VIIs need to see this comm you got, as that is where they are heading after finishing VII. It does NOT end with VII folks, that is just the beginning!
Thanks Bobo,
You must be a very strong Being, that is obvious to me. Thanks for the great communication.
ML,
Tony
Thanks Christie.
We look forward to meeting you and Mike too, and your son.
ARC,
Tony
Hi Martin,
Thanks for the nice ack.
Love to have a Guiness with you sometime.
Your mate,
Tony
Thanks Sam!!
Your spirit, insousiance and wit were an inspiration to me!!
ML,
Tony
Hey Jackson!!
For sure when we come to Portland next we will hook up. It was a bummer I didn’t get much time to talk with you at Amy’s party but I look forward to hearing more of the horror stories and maybe having a nice dinner too eh?
ARC,
Tony
OT phenomena for sure!!
🙂
Tony
Thanks Mosey!!
We feel the same!!
We have been wanting to go see Marty. But he is “too busy” to squeeze us in. I guess that is a good indicator.
🙂
Tony
Hey FF,
Yes it was a bit of both. (engram and adventure) It still is to some degree. I just can’t get over how nuts the church is. I was telling someone last night: We used to help the public to get out of the trap. Now we are trying to get to the Scientologists to help get them out of the trap that they are in!! WTF??
Thanks for the nice words.
ML,
Tony
The pwofessow doth speak.
I am game there Jim. It is such a grave task, I should put it under separate correspondence lest I detract from the gravity of Tony and Marie-Jo’s declaration.
As a preview, though, I thought I might start thus:
In the beginning there was God. Before that there was Alex. Alex Metheny. Alex was flexing his postulates at one point and noticed a certain harmony among them. He enjoyed that until he tired of the uniformity. As an inspiration, he changed the alignment in the harmony he had postulated. There were now highs and lows when compared to each other. Alex was pleased with this result. So he decided to maintain this new arrangement. To do that he developed a property to hold certain alignments in place. To that property Alex chose to hold the lows in place, he added additional significance. Alex grinned to himself as he though “heavy”. This property did perform per Alex’s postulates. What to call it now preoccupied Alex. He thought it would be a serious violation of his effect should this ever be tampered with. Alex chose gravity as the property name. So the inventor of Gravity: Alex Metheny.
Bruce
To Fellow Traveller, Once Upon a time and Karen. Sorry I wasn’t able to respond to your ack’s and well wishes. I love being here too! What a wonderful group.
To Mark A. Baker, Thank you for the SOS reference. It is a fantastic reference and I like to think it is pretty ingrained in my process.
Prepare yourself because now I’m going to get a little sarcastic.
What does SOS say about taking things literally?
Ne
Hi Mark,
I read your story on Steve Halls site. Pretty impressive history. You are a very good Being too, I see this very clearly. No person is perfect and that is what I always loved about Scientology. It could help anyone to get better. Now the church has gone off track and we need to get it reformed. Your background in Data analysis is very valuable. I’m sure you could( and probably are) using it to help.
Hope to meet you someday!
ARC,
Tony
Hi Meisha,
I am glad to join a group that has someone of your stature!! All of your translation abilities and your honesty and integrity make me proud to call you a (if I may?) friend.
ARC,
Tony
Hi War and Peace,
Your write-ups were an inspiration to me and in making my decision to come out into the open.
I have no doubt that you will do the same at the correct time. But what you are doing is very valuable , so don’t feel bad. 🙂
Look forward to meeting sometime too!!
Tony
Thanks MOQ!!
A very theta ack and we feel that same about you!
Hope to tip a few with you sometime.
( I’m starting to sound like an alkie now aren’t I?)
🙂
Tony
The famous Veritas!!
Thank you for the beautiful words!!
ML,
Tony
To Mary Jo and Tony,
Thank you for taking the bold step of declaring your independence from the church.
Nothing would make me happier than to see you receive in kind for the exchange in abundance that you have given and continue to give to others.
Thank you for helping us.
Ne
Thanks for the explanation. “Alex Metheny” has been deleted from the list. By now the list has over 1,000 people.
All smiles. Yeah!
Mary Joe and Tony,
Great on your declaration of Independence.
All Scientologists with Integrity would do the same thing.
Welcome aboard!
Tony and Marie-Joe,
Thank you very much coming out and telling your story. All of your points are straight forward and are spoken from a panned-determinism viewpoint. The links showing your (LRH referenced) comm. to the fundraiser, followed by the non-enturb order, really shows how simple the situation is. Truth, LRH, Ethics and Integrity, are simply not aloud in (DM’s) Church of Scientology. Thanks again, and it’s onwards and upwards to all!
Not sure if this has been mentioned before on this thread but Tony was always the big opinion leader in Seattle, that is, until he took a stand and his long-time “friends” turned their back on he and Marie-Jo pretty much instantaneously.
During the rough period all of us good people go through (the doubt period where we know something is wrong but haven’t made our decisions to leave yet), Tony would step up to the plate and lead the charge at fund raisers from time to time.
He would make a new game where he would donate an obscene amount if the others in the room would kick in a certain amount themselves. And while Tony does quite well, he is not wealthy, so it always stings financially. It’s a real sacrifice for the sake of duty.
A chant would go around the room of a hundred people or more: “Make Tony Pay!!! Make Tony Pay!!!”
He was always there to help. He was able to take a sick and twisted off-p0licy activity and at least put a smile on people’s faces.
I had three people come up and originate fabulous wins during Tony’s chaplain cycles with them.
Our OT Vlll E/D told him he gets more products on his part time staff schedule than most people get while full time.
Sounds like a real SP to me! 🙂
Marie-Jo is the smartest person in the room.
She knows people and how they tick. She always smiles. And like Tony, she tolerates zero b.s. from 1.1 churchies.
Several days per week for many many months or even years, you could see her leading the folder project at our org. Over 2000 hours of help.
Another real SP! 🙂
I loathe our little DM-Bot team at the Seattle org.
I encourage any public from Seattle to get some testicles and think for yourself.
Look at the tone level of the DePhillips’. That photo sums them up.
Look at the tone level of the org. The fact that they kicked Tony and Marie-Jo out pretty much sums that up, too.
C’mon Seattle thetans…..WAKE UP!!!
Veritas,
“….PTS to…….. the hand extended in “help.”
Line charge……………
What a statement! Says so much.
Thank you sir. I’ll bet that synthetic identity ain’t your first!
Jazz is the music genre most appropriate for a scientologist — both can have a great deal of improvisation.
Bruce
Tony & Marie-Joe,
WOW!!
What a write up. I’m so impressed. I admire your attempts to handle before disconnecting — just like the book says. Your collection of references regarding finances and the Ideal Org out-tech is priceless and I will keep it and refer to it.
Before our public announcement, Suzanne and I had been feeling better and better, and freer and freer as we followed the path of de-PTSing from the Church. We kinda thought we were done with the wins from that cycle.
But once we made that last step of publicly announcing our disconnection from the SP in our lives we were really surprised to experience even more expansion and freedom. We just didn’t expect that we could feel that much better — but we did.
So I know how you must be feeling. It just gets better from here. I wish you guys all the best.
Attached is a survey I got from Bridge and my answers to the survey. If you have this survey, please answer it according to your heart
Please answer in the space provided below each question:
1. In which 3rd and 4th dynamic Scientology activities do you currently participate?
I am an Independant scientologist. This means that I no longer am a member of the current Church of Scientology. This makes me free to practice the religion without giving my lifes earnings to the false organization of IAS or Superpower. I am no longer connected to the Suppressive Person, David Miscaviage, who is working overtime on destroying our church.
2. What is it about these activities that makes them something you want to participate in?
They are honest, truthful and forthright.
3. Since being in Scientology, have you ever had interest in becoming a Sea Org member?
Yes, I was in for more than 20 years. It was a love-hate relationship. I loved Scientology, but I hated David Miscaviage and his suppressive leadership.
4. When you were interested, what was it that interested you in it?
L Ron Hubbard and his wonderful tech.
5. Are you currently interested in becoming a Sea Org member? In the future?
No,I’m too old to go toe to toe with some of the assholes I put up with while I was in. I would have to resort in kicking the living crap out of some of them. And that wouldn’t fly.
6. If the urgency, importance or reality of actually clearing the planet were made real to you, would you reconsider becoming a Sea Org member?
No, there is no way that the current church could make it real to me that they were going to clear the planet. It would have to be done outside of the Church.
7. Do you know if you are qualified to join the Sea Org?
No, I don’t think I am.
8. What Sea Org positions would you be most interested in holding?
Ex
Tom
If you dare to deliver the OT levels, RTC might sue you and claim that the OT levels are trade secrets. This is what happened in the RTC vs. Robin Scott, Church of New Civilization lawsuit. At the end, RTC lost with its claims (in 1996). Here is a summary:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Religious_Technology_Center_v._Scott
“In January 1985 RTC sued Mayo and other persons connected with the Church of the New Civilization, a splinter group of the official Church of Scientology, contending that they were making unauthorized use of stolen documents relating to the religion of Scientology. RTC stated that it was ‘the protector’ of the religion of Scientology, its philosophy and its technology ‘including the Advanced Technology’ consisting of ‘confidential and proprietary information regarding counseling and training,’ and was the owner of various trademarks registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office protecting the Advanced Technology. The coplaintiffs with RTC were the Church of Scientology International, Inc. and the Church of Scientology of California, Inc., both nonprofit California corporations which RTC stated were authorized by it to use the Advanced Technology in accordance with certain terms and conditions in conjunction with the marks it owns. Thirty-one marks were identified in RTC’s complaint, in addition to which there were a number of other marks for which registration was pending or marks owned by RTC but as yet unregistered. RTC sought an injunction against the use of this material by the defendants. […]
“Mayo counter-sued for false designation of origin of the documents and for unfair competition in violation of the Lanham Act, for libel, and for intentional infliction of emotional distress. After 1,825 docket entries and nine years of pretrial litigation involving three discovery magistrates, a special master, the recusal of two district court judges, the denial of five petitions for writ of mandamus, three appeals […] and three denials of certiorari by the Supreme Court, the third district judge, A. Wallace Tashima, entered Final Judgment. […]”
Congratulations and well done, Tony and Marie-Joe. You have my admiration and utmost respect.
It is becoming more and more apparent to me that this de-PTS’ing action is the missing ingredient in today’s technical predicament in Scn. We know there is out tech but by all accounts my earliest auditing in the 80’s was pretty out tech and I flew! Even with roughly applied tech I did fantastically! LRH says something about this (help me out here, Jim), I think. But a PTS sit of this magnitude! The entire field is PTS and we wonder why Scn is up shit creek!
Never mind the elephant in the room; I think, as a group, Church-going Scientologists have to come up to confronting that there is a room there in the first place!
Virgil,
That’s fantastic. What a trouble-maker you are.
“At the end, RTC lost”
Tom(Virgil Samms),
I LOVE your response to their survey. Hopefully the reader of your survey will wake up and leave too.
Oh, Mary Jo, I can SO attest that what you say is true. My experience exactly, as a fellow VIII.
Jim, thank you so much for posting those bits from the letter.
“I have never been good at being bossed around. Some might think it’s a “button” (problem or character blemish) that I haven’t dealt with yet but, on the other hand, maybe it’s an ability that’s helped me retain my self-determinism and freedom of thought.”
Great to see you out in the open. Do not ever loose your “rebbelion”
congratulations
Jim,
Fascinating commentary. I missed the earlier conversation you had with the OSA operative regarding “command intention” and OT8s. (I’ve only recently been reading here). This explains to me now why a few OT 8 friends have done what they’ve done after finishing OT 8. It seemed to me that their reach in society for positions of influence and responsibility where they could do much good was rather reduced, considering that they’d worked so hard for decades to accomplish OT 8.
DM’s demands to virtually own the lives and self-determinism of OT 8s again twists and reduces what LRH has asked of Scientologists. One-of-those-who-see reminded us above of the policy quoted here again:
HCOB 10 June 1960 KSW series 33 “What we expect of a Scientologist”
“…What do we expect of you? To become the best Scientologist that can be and to get on the comm lines of the world and bring a big win where it counts. We don’t expect you to hang up a shingle as a doctor and have a private practice. We’ll repect you if you do. But we’ll respect you just as much and even more if you get trained as a pro and go out and up in the world of action and of life…” LRH
It seems to me that many in the field been so drained of funds, energy, and time that Scientology has come to look like just another cult to their families and non-scientologist acquaintances. Where are the OTs out in the broader community leading, influencing, setting good examples, inspiring, utilizing the tech to good effect in small and great ways and being respected for their successful lives, leading others to want to get on the bridge? There a very few, and there are proportionally way to many Rex Fowlers, the Steve Bracketts, the ponzi scheme guy, the OTs who’ve gone from affluence to poverty, the lack of scientologists navigating the educational and other obstacles it takes to get into professional positions, the relative lack of people in the Arts who lead magnanimous and not selfish lives – JT and a few excepted.
This post explains a lot, and reinforces my conclusion that the ship CofM is being steered straight onto the shoals.
Good luck to Marie-Joe and Tony.
Leonore…
That’s pretty darn good Bruce. Very entertaining 🙂
Yes we’ll tip a few. And not that Bud Light stuff either, but a few pints o’ the black, Guinness, as you mentioned.
Virgil
I have never been a Sea Org member, but I got a strange sense of justice and satisfaction from reading your survey responses.
Besides the obvious benefits to you for having communicated your reality so honestly and unflinchingly, I am thinking those same qualities about your comm are going to impinge on somebody.
A Quebecer, Tabernac! Well done on maintaining your integrity Marie J. What a boost to see you smile in that picture. I can’t help but do the same seeing you guys.
“5 times more effort…….?” WTF?!?!?
It has been my experience that “OT” is postulate band …..not EFFORT. That might be a crashing MU right there!
Oh wait….it’s COB of the Reverse Technology Center….got it. TOTALLY STANDARD “tech” for him….
Beebercat. Thanks and glad to know another Metheny buff.
ARc,
Tony
Trevanaon, thanks for handling that. I felt like it was an “overt” LOL!!
Hi Bruce!
For sure not my first and probably not my last.
🙂
Tony
I like it!!
🙂
Tony
Thanks Matt!
Your friend,
Tony
What’s up Doc??
Sorry, couldn’t resist! Thanks Mark and we will see you soon.
ARC,
Tony
Fo-Sho!!!
Hey Penny!!!
Good to hear from you again. I miss seeing you in Seattle. Let’s catch up soon eh??
ML,
Tony
Thanks Truth!!
We love you too!!
Tony
Thanks Nomnon!
Hope you are getting over it,
ARC,
Tony
Hi Sherry!!
Good to hear from you again.
You were a big influence in my getting all the way out. You have a lot of theta.
I remember you posting to me once and saying “come play with us.” Just those simple words had quite a profound effect on me.
Thanks for all you are doing and have done.
ML,
Tony
Thanks NGL,
Hope they go away altogether someday. I know I still have one once in awhile.
🙂
Tony
Hi NOTSaware!!
You impress me as one of the few Nots auditors who were able to get out of the trap. That says alot about you.
I would LOVE to get auditing from you sometime. But you are in Italy or Sicily aren’t you? My wife and I would love to travel there sometime when the time is right.
ML,
Tony
Thanks Deidre!!
ARC,
Tony
Thanks Mike!
Yes, they are going to have a real BOT-fest!! Pain and suffering for all!! LOL!!
Tony
Tony,
I just read the Non Enturbulation Order on you.
This by the way is squirrel. Not LRH. I’ve had a couple of these myself and neither were they based on the actual, SINGLE policy on a Non Enturb Order.
It is PL 1 July 65 TECH DIVISION, QUAL DIVISION, ETHICS CHITS.
“The most attacked area of an org is its Tech and Qual personnel as these produce the effective results which make Scientology seem deadly to Suppressives.”
“The policy then is: NO TECH OR QUAL PERSONNEL MAY OMIT GIVING ETHICS CHITS TO ETHICS ON ANY INCIDENT OR ACTION COVERED IN THE DEV-T POLICY LETTERS OR WHICH INDICATES SP OR PTS ACTIVITY.”
“Ethics will find then that only two or three people in those areas are causing all the upset. This fact routinely stuns Tech and Qual personnel when it is called to their attention-that only two or three are making their lives miserable.”
“What to do with the 2 or 3 students or pcs causing trouble?
“Ethics issues a Non Enturbulation Order. This states that those named in it (the SPs and PTSs who are students or preclears) are forbidden to enturbulate others and if one more report is received of their enturbulating anyone, an SP
order will be issued forthwith.
“This will hold them in line until tech can be gotten in on them and takes them off the back of Tech and Qual personnel.”
You see, it is to do with Tech and Qual lines, and enturbulation by persons ON those lines, messing up tech results.
Your’s is completely inane. So, of course it’s NOT LRH POLICY!!
Thanks VaD!!
You sound like a great guy!!
ARC,
Tony
Hi Stefan,
I am glad you missed out on all the fun!!
ARC,
Tony
Hi Chrissie,
I followed your story with your boyfriend and am glad that turned out good for you.
Yes, I am sure I have seen you at Flag too. Most likely with that hunted look we all mostly had. 🙂
Look forward to meeting you and your guy sometime.
ARC,
Tony
Thanks Jim, that says a lot!!
I felt that intention and always fought it. To me DM is trying to re-write LRH and I reject that.
Thanks Lucy!!
🙂
Tony
Behind every great man is a great woman. Not that you are behind him…just sayin…
I know most women probably don’t like that saying.
🙂
Tony
That’s good wildbank!! You sound smart!!
Tony
Hi Ne,
Thanks for the kind words. I really GOT that!
ML,
Tony
🙂
back at ya!!
Thanks Theo!!
We really enjoy your thoughtful posts and are proud to be part of this group with you.
ML,
Tony and MJ
Hey Itsa-fest!!
Thanks for the ack and we hope all is going well with your family!
ML,
Tony and MJ
Make Tony pay!!
You had to remind me!!
Thanks for all the acks Idle Org! It was worth all of it to retain the true friends that we now have!!
ML,
Tony an MJ
Thanks Craig and Suzanne,
Your declaration really resonated with us a lot!!
You guys are a class act and we would LOVE to meet with you sometime!!
ML,
Tony and MJ
I thought of this and wanted to share it:
How a session could go nowadays in the CofM.
auditor: This is the session! Is there an ARCX?
pc: Yes, I am upset with the direction the church is going….
auditor: Let me stop you there. Have I missed a withhold on you? What’s that??!
pc: I don’t see anything.
auditor: That!…that!!
pc: Well, I forgot to brush my teeth this morning..
Auditor: gets time place form and event….no f/n.
E/S missed withhold?
pc: I don’t really feel any charge on this.
auditor: False read? nope. Puts buttons in on E/S question. Puts buttons on the buttons on the e/s question..
PC: I feel like crap.
Auditor: Lets do a confessional correction list.
Asess’s the list: Takes up “has an evil purpose been retimulated? Blah blah blah..
finally calls an ARCX f/n and back to the arcx quesiton. How does that seem now?
PC: fine (apathy)
Auditor: the next thing on your program is a Sec check: I AM NOT AUDITING YOU!
PC: Oh boy, here we go again. (thinks to himself) not wanting to really be in comm so he doesn’t have to go through all that bullshit again. Thinking: this is costing me how much?? About $7500 and intensive!!
ARC,
Tony
Tony back at ya. We would love to meet you guys to. You can contact me at kramerc@cableone.net. Looking forward to it.
Hahaha …
Ahh, Virgil … I busted a gut on your answer to #5
Man – priceless!! hahaha
To Dave Adams: I continued to do my solo NOTs (and beyond) after I left 12 years ago. Very doable and MUCH more rewarding than in the CoM. I was pretty comfortable with the materials and didn’t have any problems. If anyone needs assistance, there are plenty of competent terminals out here that can help.
Tony said: “I am not sure if refunding the unnecessary sec checking is realistic. I would hope the church would do the right thing on their own someday.”
Forget realistic. Their reality doesn’t count. Yours does. Demand it.
As far as the church doing the right thing someday, forget that too.
They can’t show you any LRH to support these inquisitions (sec checks). They don’t have a leg to stand on. They’re out-exchange with their public. Put their ethics in and demand they return the money you spent on squirrel actions.
Bingo! This squirrel non-enturb order is being used for the sole purpose of attempting to nullify the recipient and anyone else thinking of speaking up or disagreeing with “command intention”. Absolutely NOT LRH and SQUIRREL!!
What gets me about NON ENTURBULATION ORDERS is that they appear to contradict the public creed of scientology which includes:
“That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;
…
And that no agency less than God has the power to suspend or set aside these rights, overtly or covertly. ”
An organisation with a creed that recognises “inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others” has no business issuing such a thing as a NON ENTURBULATION ORDER as such a thing is clearly an attempt to “set aside” (quash) the expression of said rights.
Matt, Mary was my LOC sup before being promoted to Esto. She was an amazing terminal.
I understand she was RPFed, is now out, and per what I’m told will not so much as discuss the subject of SCN with anyone. What happened????
Nice post Foremost!!
Good to hear from you!!
ARC,
Tony and MJ
But it was too late for the CNC. Years before the end of the litigation, the CNC ceased to exist.
What this case makes it interesting was the legal tactic of RTC, which failed miserably. In the beginning, they claimed that the “Advanced Technology” (i.e. OT levels) were a trade secret, on the other hand they stated that they were scriptures too and that the organization had no commercial interest whatsoever with regards to that technology. When they saw that such a position would play into Mayo’s hands, they suddenly made a turn by 180 degrees and said that they indeed had a commercial interest in the OT levels. But the courts just didn’t follow that “logic”:
“[…] RTC argued that Mayo’s unfair competition and false designation of origin claims were not justiciable under the First Amendment because they would require the court to entangle itself in underlying questions of religious doctrine. […]
“The district court agreed, finding that it was Scientology doctrine that L. Ron Hubbard was the ‘source’ of all ‘Advanced Technology’ and that adjudication of the Technology’s authorship would undermine this religious doctrine. We do not reach the issue of justiciability, however, because we find RTC estopped from raising the non-justiciability defense. […]
“The district court granted the Church a TRO and later extended it to a preliminary injunction, prohibiting the New Church from ‘using, distributing, exhibiting or in any way publicly revealing’ the scriptures. […] The preliminary injunction was based on the district court’s finding that the scriptures were trade secrets and entitled to protection under both RICO and California law.
“On appeal, we vacated the preliminary injunction. We held that the scriptures did not qualify as trade secrets under California law because of the failure of the Church to claim that the scriptures had any commercial value. We rejected the Church’s argument that the scriptures qualified as trade secrets because of their spiritual value.
“The Church returned to the district court and filed a second Ex Parte Application for Temporary Restraining Order and Order to Show Cause, again asking the court to restrain the New Church from using the scriptural materials. This time, the Church argued that the scriptures qualified as trade secrets because they had economic value. Specifically, the Church contended that if the New Church was not enjoined from using the scriptures, ‘[p]laintiffs will be forever at a loss to protect the confidential nature and resultant economic value of these materials. Defendant will obtain an economic advantage that they would not otherwise possess which will be used to divert parishioners, the value and goodwill of which cannot be monetarily measured for plaintiffs. […]
“Moreover, there is little doubt that RTC is playing ‘fast and loose’ with the judicial system as required in the minority view of estoppel. To first assert that its unfair competition and false designation of origin claims are justiciable and at the same time assert that Mayo’s identical claims are not is at best questionable; in light of RTC’s documented history of vexatious behavior, RTC’s actions are indefensible. […]”
Bruce,
Impressive grasp of how things work. Hmmmm.
Tony,
Now that’s what I call auditing! Whew! Not letting the pc dictate the session. What does a pc know anyway?
Ye gads!
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Tony and Marie-Joe,
Whew! Wow! Thank you so much for this write up. It is so real to me. Tony, as I was reading your story and you paused to apologize if it was boring, I literally could not help myself and I began nodding and spoke out load, “No! It’s not boring!!!”
I had to laugh about the email exchange regarding the fundraising and the “Under-current of your communication. Ahhhhh, that deadly, pesky, under-current of TRUTH.
I was really struck by how honest you were. What integrity! I applaud you both and I am so glad to see that you were able to also stay together.
I am so glad to now know who freetothink and Alex Metheny are, two people whose posts I always appreciated!
Love, Synthia
The preps were a beeeaaaacchh!
But I am enjoying the theta oh so vicariously.
Thanks!
Bruce
It’s probably more obvious, noticeable and direct as those who are near the top of the bridge are only at arms-length away from him.
At the local org level, one can feel 3-P spooked by terminals robotroning the “Command Intention” assembly-line belt.
It gets rather insidious and asinine when each IAS Attendee is given an FSM-type responsibility … “appointed” to rob each other blind.
When I signed up for Services, I did not sign up to be arbitrarily prodded and puppeteered from the top down. From an “uncompressed” outsider point of view it comes across as “incessant harassment”, the staff way too PTS to see they are also being manipulated under the pretense it has something to do with “Planet Clearing”. As is plainly evident, 26 tears later and billions in IAS lootings has done absolutely squat to achieve that.
Besides, at this point, there is nothing really of any value anyone could contribute to Planet Clearing anyways. The place needs some serious reformation first, and it ain’t gonna happen from within.
Padawan gratefully accepts praise from members of the Jedi Council.
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That’s brilliant! I look forward to receive my next survey 🙂
Thing is it’s such a q and a from a dispassionate analysis of stats etc, that OSA person’s writing that is. It strikes me as so stupid to think like that when I can provide 3 pages in small text of LRH going over stats trumping everything and how stupid people can be with dub-in.
Kha Khan, you can cross-post our story anywhere you want. It’s really real to us that communication is the universal solvent. We appreciate your advice about the different boards & thank you for the kind works 🙂
Tony & Marie-Joe
I answer about one survey or promo piece a week to different orgs too. I try to shock them into awareness as it’s always one way comm.
Good point Jim. At some point I’m making a website with all these policy and tech points like that in bullet-point form so it’ll be like expanded friendsoflrh.org. So keep it up, it won’t be re-lost tech swallowed by the blog’s volume.
Marty, thanks a LOT for letting me this song posted! You are THE MAN!
Tony, i AM a great guy! (It’s just happens that not many people see it. 😉 )
Now, having said that “I AM a great guy” I lost my Importance.
That’s what I’m working on – bringing down my self-importance (and I advise to any scientologist to work on it, too… because Scientology makes one think that you are “one of the few very important persons in this world”.
Thanks Heather!
We appreciate that!
Tony
Thanks Jack!!
ARC,
Tony
Thanks Fu dog,
I really like your posts!!
ARC,
Tony
Hi Synthia,
We really LOVED your declaration!!
We are so happy you saved your husband and your marriage. You sound like a very smart and theta woman.
Our best to you and your family.
ML,
Tony and MJ
It literally makes me vomit to hear how much money you WA$TED, and gave to the ‘church’.
Uch. YUCK!!!!
Hey Joey,
Don’t rub it in!!
🙂
Tony
WOW! This is quite an amazing story! Mary-Jo, you may not remember me but I knew you back at the local org back in the early nineties. I remember you always being uptone, always willing to communicate honestly with anyone with a lot of ARC. You were a stickler regarding verbal tech and always managed to find the correct LRH reference and judging from what I just read, I’m glad to see you haven’t changed! People who really wanted to help like yourself were one of the reasons why I stuck with Scientology back then. I wanted to help and go up the Bridge myself back then but I slowly came to realize, sadly, that I just couldn’t do it in an environment where one was afraid to question anything without it being called a nattering, or black PR or even worse, an SP. So I kept my mouth shit and just quietly went offlines. I couldn’t take all those reg cycles anymore and from what I’ve read from these wonderful blogs, things just have gotten worse. So I’m not surprised yet quite happy that you came to those conclusions regarding the current Church management. Keep up the good work in shedding the light on all the outpoints and hopefully it will one day soon be possible to do real standard tech without having to go through hell. Sorry for my rambling 🙂
So again congratulations Mary-Jo, and Tony as well! Glad to see you both so happy!
Chris
Hi Chris, I don’t ever remember being a stickler regarding verbal tech but maybe it came across that way, LOL. I do remember getting in trouble a few time for giving verbal tech so you might have witness me trying to stay out of trouble, LOL. I wish you would tell me a bit more about you so I could remember you. Don’t hesitate to contact me, mariejoe@comcast.net if you want a more private exchange. Thanks for your kind words. Now that you have a platform to communicate your thoughts without being attack I hope you also found a way to continue going up the Bridge without getting regged all the time. I’m not quite ready for that step yet but I can just imagine coming out of a great session not having to worry about running into a reg, LOL. That would be quite something!
Yow! Laughing and pounding the table! Very nice.
Welcome –
as I always said and knew during my own dificuties in the church ” in SCN it always will workout OK”
and you now ARE in SCN again- but you knew that !!
welcome again.
Love Helmut & Hellen
Thanks Helmut and Hellen!
I remember when I got Hellen to come to Seattle and do a seminar at the Org. She was great!
Look forward to seeing you both someday soon.
ML,
Tony and MJ
Buttons at the examiner?! No way!!! All I can do is shake my head in disbelief. Holy Flippin Shit!
Tony~I understand completely what you’re saying about getting wins easily – being open and in-com and fully participating in your session with the goal of actually attaining some end phenomena or goal – simple and freeing.
And yes, it is spiritual abuse to turn it into anything else!
Any departure from that simplicity is WRONG.
And just so damned introverting and invalidative and ultimately a black hole that you will NEVER dig out of due to the very reasons you’ve ended up there.
I know the technical references to apply but inside the CofS that wouldn’t matter because even if I sorted it out applying the right tech, the next person in line might not, nor the next, or the next!
Your story proves that no one will make it to OT through the CofS.
I sort of joked about Mr. Rinder’s comment of going on hoping and how I’ve so been there, done that and how we should make that a step on the Grade Chart.
I can attest to that state! I bet you could too!
When I got the EP is when I left. The EP of G.O.H. is to STOP GOING ON HOPING because it IS NOT going to resolve the way it’s supposed to!
It’s probably more obvious, noticeable and direct as those who are near the top of the bridge are only at arms-length away from him.
Yes. When our new mission holders came in…I kept wondering what is wrong with these California people? LoL
Of course through this blog I’ve come to recognize it ain’t California… ;^)
(Come on, everybody knows anything weird comes from California!) LMAO
Has an F/N been invalidated?
Thanks for your post. I am also almost ready to come out… have to get my 2D on the same page. It’s not easy.
Hi Kha Khan,
I saw my name on the annon list. Can you add an “s” to my last name= DePhillips.
And I was in over 30 years if that can be updated too.
My e-mail is a.dephillips@comcast.net
Thanks,
Tony
Tony,
I have communicated your data to one of the Anons who maintains the “Big List Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out” and the related wiki site. The Anon has received and acknowledged your communication, and it is much appreciated. My understanding is that the corrections have been made, or will be made shortly. Also, if you know of anyone else who should be added to the list, please advise.
Thanks.
— Kha Khan
Hi Tony and Mary,
Great declaration. Good for you guys. You’re both looking very well, by the way!
I could not have Imagined Tony D posting on Tony O, what a small Imagination I have, haha
Hi Cat!
I love Tony Ortega’s blog. He is very informative and knows more about the cult than most ex-Scientologists. The only think lacking is some of the wins that can be had which helps to explain why so many intelligent people got caught up on the trap. I hope all is good in your world!! 🙂