You all ever despair that we aren’t heard?  Take a look at the latest promo for the C of M, for the LV Idle Org where DM will  be this weekend, no less.

Cramming Order – David Miscavige

report to MOQ for cramming

Outness noted: First of all, well done on taking our cue and  at least trying to promote LRH’s definition of the attitude of a Scientologist. But flunk on the promo piece. That is more like posed cheerfulness (with more than a hint of PTSness evident).  In order to demonstrate insouciance, you’ve got to walk the walk.  Roberto Sanchez is insouciant. Chrissie Pearlman is insouciant. Sam Domingo is insouciant. Mary Jo Leavitt is insouciant.  Hell, your Cramming Officer (MOQ) is damn insouciant. The lives of the independents listed on this blog are your Art Series 8.  Good on trying to talk the talk. Flunk on not even trying to walk the walk. You can’t fake insouciance. First thing you’ve got to do is de-power the reign of terror hanging over everybody’s heads.  Now, for you, that is a real trick. But I am sure if anybody can sort you out, the MOQ can.

Recommended handling:

1. Fly all Cram ruds.

2. More intense study of the Independent movement, maybe even some participation, as that is definitely your Art Series 8.

Jimbo, you all set? By the way Jim, please also cram on routing policies and on cleaning cleans. He sent the damn promo to Dave Adams and Jamie Sorrentini.  Now Dave Adams doesn’t need any lessons in inscouciance. And we all know Jamie Sorrentini is insouciant. Tiziano Lugli is insouciant. Cathy Greenbaum is insouciant…………etc and et al…you get the point.

312 responses to “Insouciant

  1. If ever a City fitted the personality of Miscavige it would be Las Vegas.

    • Hey there! Watch it! Some of us live there!! 🙂

      (It’s actually a great place to live as long as you don’t gamble. That’s how we pay for our roads and schools in Nevada… )

    • Hmm, you may have a point there, Cat Daddy.

      • My sides seriously ACHING with laughter!!!!
        Thank you, thank you, thank you.
        Hey y’all gotta watch this!

      • Sam, You’ve encouraged me.:-)

        Well, since this thread is about Insouciance, maybe it’ll be fun to see — exterior from the situation — how some “Leaders” treat their staff.

  2. Enforced insouciance anyone? Looks like an old GAP commerical. sorry, GAP did a better job!

    • Ahah…that’s exactly what I thought when I saw it 🙂

      Old GAP, Banana Republic meets Armani Exchange a bit blurry coz she’s trying to be real – close to an Apple commercial like the ads they have been doing lately…everyone trying to look Hip and Cool, because the image that the raw public have of the average scientologist, Ain’t Necessarily So.

      • Tiziano & NCT, the picture reminds of the ads that inundate and infest the Los Angeles Magazine which the overwhelming smell of cheap Tequila and bad perfume.

        My eyes started to water and I felt like sneezing when I saw the ad!


        My ass!

        You’d have to smoke a dimes worth of splifs to be insouciant in Miscavige’s orgs.

    • Enforced Insouciance.


  3. Yes; Wensey is insouciant…

    I hope she is in touch with the real life also.

    It´s easy to be “armonic insouciant” when you toe the line and things arround you are gotten right by others.

    As soon as one needs to keep the ship out of the rocks this type of insouciance vanishes and you hit the real panic.

    I wonder if she is doing something to avoid the ship to crash in the sad tale.

    If she is like a lot of us: a veteran of decades of service with lots of training and hard battles on his shoulders and yet keep this “insouciance” then my hat is off.

    Hope she´s not a newcomer looking all sweet and light.

    Someone´s going to be RPF´d to death for using this word on the ad.

    By the way; I will call to Jackson Walker to see if I qualify.

    • Roberto,
      I am SURE you qualify in Insouciance!

    • Yeah. Let’s see. Do I qualify?

      This is what happens once people apply and are on the inside, GUARANTEED.

    • BTW, we laugh as charge blows … but the facts are pretty grim that this footage depicts a dictator who lived, who ruled, and who wreaked havoc and sorrow, affecting millions of lives.

      We ask, how can it happen? Yes. It really happened. The answer, the real answer to that question, will keep society from repeating similar forms of insanity.

      Keep Scientology free and true. Imagine if Hitler had the A bomb. Well, in the realm of the spirit, the Tech is similar when in the wrong hands.

  4. Marty,

    It sure seems like we are being shown the nicer, sweeter side of corporate Scientology but this will backfire on them badly and will result in several staff being dispatched to the RPF.

    Anyone who knows the definition of insouciance and follows up on this offer will get hit in the teeth with enforced reality in the first interview.

    If that doesn’t send them careening out the door, they probably are so low toned that enforced reality is where they live and they will find a home in the new, improved, on purpose and no sympathy Church of Mestology.

    These people are lost in the depths of their big lie and cannot conceive of viewpoints based on the truth.

    Epic fail, again!

  5. She’s in an invisible cage

    • Boyd,

      Spot on!

      My initial thought was that Wensey is miming being trapped behind an invisible barrier. Perhaps an unconscious cry for help?

      She looks very nice and I hope that she does find her way out soon.

      And, I find it rather ironic that now the CoS recruitment promo is promoting the theme of ‘insouciant’. I always got the impression that the staff at St Hill thought I was a bit of a ‘joker and degrader’ and wasn’t taking things seriously enough.


  6. Marty,
    I think I’ll let this one go in terms of a cram. Following the line of thought that they’ll become what they resist, that be us. Sometimes, it’s better to do nothing, the process is working.

    Other than that, I think Wensey is darn cute. Like her suit too. Kind of a cool name. Heck, she can come and join us!

  7. She looks like Elaine from Seinfeld having a nervous breakdown. Lol!!

  8. Interesting image – does not communicate the intended message unfortunately. She is dressed all in black. I know DM favors the “blackshirt” look himself, but it has nothing to do with insouciance. It tends to be somber or even ominous (probably why DM likes it). The bare concrete floor and blank wall suggest austerity. The woman’s body language suggests a nervous glee. Her hands are raised defensively, elbows close to the body, legs together. The tension in her face and neck suggests a grimace.

    • Fishdaddy, a very professional critique by someone more qualified than most to deliver one.

    • TheEmperorIsNaked

      Yeah. The neck especially was wierding me out. It makes her look 20 years older. Don’t you take 2 or 3 rolls of film and pick the best shot? Is this it?

    • Fishdaddy,

      perfectly put! Nervous glee – that is it. Very spot on! Thank you for giving words to that picture lingo.

      ML, Fidelio

    • After I quickly looked at the image last night I was left with a vague impression of there being something “wrong”. Thinking about it later, I remembered that her hair was unkempt and there was something awry with her lower body, but didn’t recall what precisely what it was. It’s one trouser leg that doesn’t sit right.

      I don’t want to make any assumptions about Wensey’s health – she might be quite healthy – but she seems an odd choice to convey insouciance. I worry that behind that buttoned up pin-stripe suit (message = constraint) that there’s nothing to her and she needs a good holiday and a feed.

      Great smile. But it doesn’t overwhelm the other messages.

    • Before they decided to go with a younger, edgier
      approach, the original caption of this shot was

      “When COB says jump…”

  9. Seems more Theetie Weetie and glee rather than Insouciant.

  10. Thought provoking

    This is way too uptone…do you think he’ll get it? I’m betting that he’s taking a gamble on this button. (ha ha)…only in Las Vegas!

    PR is so low these days that DM has to make an apearance at the opening so at least the public will show up! Las vegas already has its own PR woes with the church. It should be interesting.

    No way that a single staff member at this event will be insouciant. They have been working flat out and they will be wiped out and worried about pulling everything off without a hitch. No way the can walk the walk at this event! The best thing they can do is wax entusiastic and hope things go okay.

  11. To Cramming, VIA ETHICS!

  12. Marty,

    I feel this particular post reflects poorly on this blog. I know plenty of current staff who are in fact insouciant and on purpose and I feel it makes less of them.

    Just my two cents.

    • Name one, including the post and the org.

      • Naming names would to easily assist in “outing” me but I can assure you that is my experience.

        Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of way too serious, forceful staff members as well. This is something my spouse and I both observed and did not like over the past few years.

        I support your efforts, Marty, but what’s useful for me and I think most who read your blog are cold hard facts of severe out ethics at the top of the Org Board, not sniping about promo pieces.

        But what do I know. 😉

        • My TWO Cents, Thanks. “Outing”? What do you mean? A guy who lives a life where there are some grave circumstances hanging over his head if he is “outed” for defending DM’s orgs on my blog is going to tell me which way is up? Look, if there were a single insouciant staff member on planet earth, they could have taken a picture of her. But, that is not even the point. The entire concept of an Independent Scientologist came about from the observation DM’s machine produce precisely the opposite. If you did your homework on the blog and its links, you’d find we use this term continually as a standard, referring to an LRH lecture where he used that very word to describe the defining character of a Scientologist. The point is we have become so many, DM is trying to be like us. And it is strictly a marketing ploy. He continues to produce folk who have to worry about being “outed” for looking and observing and learning. That is the reverse of what Scientology (LRH Scientology) produces. If you don’t know that talk of the Church’s producing anti-insouciance is rampant in the Scientology field, and even with a lot of staff, then apparently I know more about what is happening in the Scientology field and at the upper levels of management than you do. Which proves my point. These are cold, hard facts that are a result of severe out ethics at the top of the Org Board, and is not sniping about promo pieces.

          • Hi Marty. That was well stated. I’ve noticed that whenever somebody disagrees with you, they never seem to come back with anything to prove their point after you respond with a beautiful rebuttal. Just sayin’…I don’t know the score but I think you/we are winning! You are a man of great integrity and wisdom. Your love and respect for LRH and the tech is admirable (for lack of a better word).I have a question after reading this post. Is there something more to the word insouciance than I am getting? I looked it up in the dictionary and it says “cheerful lack of anxiety or concern”. Just wondering if it’s that simple or if there is more to the word than that simple definition. That picture is odd to say the least. It looks forced. And the background/set or whatever certainly doesn’t reflect the meaning of the word insouciance IMHO. It’s cold and sterile and unwelcoming. And the way she is smiling and posing looks very unnatural and tense. I think the heading of that picture should be “TENSION”. She looks like she is on the verge. Of what I don’t know, it’s just odd. Maybe DM should spend more $ on art direction at photo shoots instead of attorneys and private investigators. Whoever came up with the idea for this “photo-shoot” should wind up on the RPF. I only say that because it was probably DM or TD!!

            • ArcX, thanks. Here is one quote from LRH on the word: “You want to know what seriousness is? Seriousness is solidity. You ever hear of a ‘solid citizen?’

              “There’s nothing that succeeds like insouciance. Plain flippancy will actually get more done in less time than anything else you can name.”

              “And the more seriously you take the game, the less chance there is of winning.”

              My original reference came from a lecture I listened to years ago wherein LRH said insouciance is the best word describe the attitude of Scientologists. I’ve yet to locate the lecture on the outside. But, I swear it exists. I sat right in the Massacre Canyon Inn (appropriately named) at Int “Source” night and heard it noting the diametrically opposed opposite Scientologists were being pushed toward by DD.

              • You want to know what seriousness is? Seriousness is solidity. You ever hear of a ’solid citizen?’

                “There’s nothing that succeeds like insouciance. Plain flippancy will actually get more done in less time than anything else you can name.”

                “And the more seriously you take the game, the less chance there is of winning.”

                Makes me think of the protests.

                Marty was the lecture called: Seriousness_and_Approval ?

                • imo there can be a definition for Seriousness like just “focusing attention”. What is needed in many occasion to accomplish something.
                  Insouciance on the other hand can be defined in certain situations as “lack of responsibility”.

                  • OD, play the game with lightness and don’t lose focus on the fact that it is a GAME. When you go down the scale, you find seriousness, where things become more solid and outcomes become must have/can’t have.

                    Unfortunately, if thetans knew the result of every game, they’d be bored and quickly lose interest, so they tend to mock up this idea that the result’s a mystery, unknowable. It keeps interest in the game high but the side effect is forgetting that (a) it is a game and (b) they can win or lose it at a whim.

                    So, when you say insouciance is lack of responsibility, I say, don’t be so serious!

                    Keep smiling and keep laughing and keep winning.

                  • OD. focusing can alsoo be “having a game mentality”

              • That is such a great reference.
                I remember getting upbraided frequently for being too insouciant.
                Even though we chinese schooled that quote at CCI if you applied it well then you were for it. And that was years ago. I can’t imagine someone having the balls to do what I did or said then.
                They would seriously be dead I think. Or just blackballed in to non existence.

              • Theo Sismanides

                Marty, here is the reference: it’s in PDCs


                I have copy pasted 2 pages so that we get an inkling about REAL Insouciance:


                Guys, read those paragraphs where LRH describes Huang the Innovator in China and the static he set for China. Then came the Conservatism.

                This is what is happenind in the church and we aren’t part of it. Who is INSOUCIANT NOW? HAHAHA !!!!

                PDC LECTURE EXCERPT
                „Let’s pretend“: when a man loses his Spirit of Play, he’s dead. That means that guys
                start dying at about 3.0. And sure enough, 3.0 down a guy will tell you, „Well, I had some
                illusions when I was a kid, but I’ve lost all of those. I’m practical now. We’ve got to face this
                thing practically, and what we’re doing here is very serious, and the reason I work hard at the
                office every night and work until ten or eleven o’clock is I have to keep those Cadillacs
                going. And uh… help keep the Cadillacs going because of the social position of the wife, you
                know. And uh… it’s terribly important, and so forth, and keeping the big house going, and
                that sort of thing.“ Some night he goes home and she’s run away with the chauffeur. This
                uh… and he says my heart is broken and all is lost.“
                Why? Why does he say this? Isn’t that… isn’t that fascinating. He’s got a MEST object
                which he kept giving things to until he had it enMESTed thoroughly, then he wondered
                why it went down tone scale so it didn’t have any morals and no responsibility. He introduced
                the factor of automaticity to such a degree that nothing could exist, except matter. And then
                he wonders why the boy has trouble at college. „What’s all this? Yeah. The gods have afflicted
                me“ he says, as he stuffs another spoonful of decayed whale down his gullet.
                You want to know what’s wrong with your preclear? Well, your preclear is too serious.
                You want to know what seriousness is? Seriousness is solidity. You ever hear of a „solid
                citizen“? You want to get something done, don’t get any of these serious boys. Shoot them on
                sight – or process them. But if you want to get something done, don’t have anything to do
                with them.
                There’s nothing succeeds like insouciance. Plain flippancy will actually get more done
                in less time than anything else you can name. That’s a funny thing, isn’t it? It’s not serious;
                the guy’s flippant. The guy says, „Oh…“ It’s something like… There’s there’s more battles
                have been won for some general by some sergeant, or something of the sort, that said,
                „Well…“ Oh, by the way, one of the ways that Tamerlane really made a reputation was knocking
                in Hashshashin’s headquarters. Timourilang, the Iron Man, the Great Limpur – oh boy!
                He was good and serious. He had a sense of humor, though. You know this uh… this uh…
                old uh…old thing about the guy with the gold uh… Midas? You know, he couldn’t eat his
                gold, and he… that goes around a lot. He evidently, possibly, initiated that. I think it was in
                Cairo, and uh…he heard that the sultan there was very, very wealthy and when he got to the
                gates of Cairo, why there was no army, and he went in and he couldn’t understand this. He
                said, „What the devil? You’ve got all that gold and you can’t buy yourself any protection?
                Well, we’re going to be good to you.“ So he shut the guy in the tower with nothing to eat but
                his bags of gold. I think the legend more or less originated there. He had his flippant moments
                too, but kind of grim.
                They used to make pyramids of… the Khan, Genghis Khan used to make pyramids of
                skulls. Fascinating.
                Uh… his idea of flippancy was just a trifle grim. For instance, one time 35,000 soldiers
                surrended to him and laid down their weapons and so forth, so he put them in the center
                of his camp and at twelve midnight had his troops slaughter them. He accepted their surrender
                because he would never take a man who was not taken without arms in his hands.

                He would have nothing to do with a man who was not taken… not fighting. A guy
                could only expect mercy at the hands of the Khan if he had about ten of the Khan’s best
                troops dead in their tracks at his feet.
                Now he had a code he ran on, pretty down scale and all that sort of thing, but it was
                there. Well, he got a big reputation one time that he didn’t deserve really at all. He kicked in
                this stronghold, he heard this stronghold existed, his troops were just tremendous. Those little
                guys were just fascinating to look at. Anyway, he… he uh… took this citadel, and this citadel
                – Hashshashin had more or less controlled a large section of Asia at one time or another – it
                was more or less in decadence. And one man was responsible for taking it.
                They had a rank called Kha Khan. Kha Khan was like a medal. It ten times forgave a
                person the death penalty. He could ten times incur the death penalty and uh… not get it, if he
                became a Kha Khan. Well, this kid became a Kha Khan. But he, by his lonesome, scaled this
                tremendous citadel which had stood for hundreds of years completely impregnable to everything,
                and kicked open the front gate. He went up a sheer mountain cliff and went over
                sheer towers and battlements and down into the midst of the enemy, and went in and opened
                the gate and took the castle. One guy.
                What do you think his idea of insouciance was? Everybody knew you couldn’t possibly
                do anything like that to that much MEST. It had stood for all these centuries and it fell
                to one man.
                Look down the line at the spirit of the men of great or murderous deeds, even here in
                the decadence of action on Earth, and you’ll find out they are strange boys, very strange fellows.
                They just kinda never kinda nailed down in the right places and did just exactly the
                right things. You looked in vain for the old school tie; you… you looked in vain for this or
                that. Like… like an ecstatic young ensign I saw once uh… standing on a dock, ordering
                destroyers to load up gas drums and freight them across to an island to make a refueling depot.
                He didn’t have any authority, the captain of the destroyer didn’t have any authority. Nobody
                owned the gas drums. They had just more or less come by those, and so forth. And th…
                this level of action is actually the kind of action that makes things happen in this universe.
                The second somebody makes something happen like that, into his tracks and into the vacuum
                moves conservatism.
                There was a great old fellow in China named Huang the Innovator, and Huang the Innovator
                practically turned China upside-down and right-side-up again and then upside-down
                and left it that way. But he organized a lot of systems; he organized a system of agriculture,
                he also organized the Ja… the Chinese civil uh…service which we use in this country. Uh…
                we don’t use Chinese in this country, but uh… we use the same system.
                Anyway, he invented that system, and uh… this guy was… he laid down the laws that
                are going to be this way and that way and the other way; and he laid them all down very nicely,
                and he had them all patterned out beautifully. But he himself didn’t kind of follow that. He
                was a wild man! He was a wild man. Nobody could ride up alongside of him. He had more
                women than he could count. Uh… and his whole principle was „The world has… has got to
                be in good shape“ and that sort of thing. Boy, he accomplished it in all directions.

                And he actually laid down the spirit of innovation. And he said that without the progress,
                without change – and so on. He said all these things and he explained it all, these things
                and everybody said „Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, yes Huang. Yes Huang. Yeah – yeah – yeah.“
                And then the old guy died and poom! In moved Chinese conservatism and there hasn’t been a
                stick altered in those things that he set up. I mean, it’s really rigid.
                He set up a static China’s never gotten off of. I was just giving you a look there. But
                he wasn’t serious and they were. And where’s China? It’s been „et.“ I trust that they found it
                very indigestible.
                Everybody who has desired China, by the way, has always ultimately found it awfully
                indigestible. Here we have these same laws at work.
                Now uh… how does this all apply on the level of processing? I’d hate to think that your
                goal was to get your preclear serious about his sanity. He… you would never accomplish
                your goal, then. Never get him serious about his sanity. He’s had seriousness piled at him
                until you can actually just trigger a line charge by explaining everything to him in a careful
                tone of voice about how serious he’s got to be about this. You could just explain it to him, sit
                and explain it to him carefully, that you don’t want any laughter. You don’t want him to take
                these things lightly, you see. You just keep piling it on him in this wise. He’s getting a type of
                selected flow he didn’t know existed before, and that alone will free him somewhat.

              • Marty, this is perfectly true, but it also implies I guess that your “professionality” is way above what the situation demands 🙂 Cause if you do not have the perfect knowledge how to handle the scene than insouciance alone can get you into trouble…
                Otherwise it is absolutely true. And I really respect you for your sharpness.

            • ARCX:

              I’m not here to argue or keep score or tow the line.

              I’m here to learn.

              Mainly I’m interested in time, place, form and event data that I can use to evaluate the scene with.

              The shit hit the fan with St Pete Times series. That was six months ago. After 33 years in Scn, with many wins, many friends and two kids in the SO I’m not going to throw that all away until I know with 100% certainty that the C of S can’t be reformed.

              If this doesn’t follow the established narrative my apologies.

              • Two Cents
                I get you loud and clear. It’s a hell of a lot to confront and I know that the protection of children comes first. Good luck.

              • Good to have you here my2¢, all the pennies you drop here will add up.

                “Scientology” and “the church” are generalities, and I agree specifics are needed to evaluate. Someone indicated to me a while back that a long term doubt is a sign of a pts condition, an indicator of connection to suppression.

                What is true for you can still be true even if some of the window dressing, “the church” needs to be changed. No need to throw it all away.

                I’ve been in for about the same time as you and share your observation that there are good people still in the church, and still wins from training and application.

                But also have the experience to contrast that with the culture and momentum scientology had in the 70’s and 80’s….things changed on a gradient many did not notice, till we have the problems we have now.

                LRH’s warnings about keeping scientology free are what we need to be looking at now…

                From the tape lecture called “What Scientology Is Doing”, part of Anatomy of the Spirit of Man Congress (1955-06-06):

                “But I would be a very sad man to realize after years of work that we had created not a greater freedom in the society but a stronger more powerful organization in place of existing organizations.”


                “And as I look into the future, I see that we are handling here, material of a potential control and command over mankind which must not be permitted at any time to become the monopoly or the tool of the few to the danger and disaster of the many.”


                And thats my 2 more cents into the pile to buy DM curtains for his future accommodations.

              • m2cents,
                If you EVER get to the point of 100% certainty that the CofS can’t be reformed, no amount of anonymity is gonna keep me from finding you and slappin you upside the head.

              • It’s really sad that “Looking” and applying the proper doubt condition, i.e., getting the facts for yourself, would entail “Throwing all that away.” But sadly, that is indeed the situation.

                That in itself is one of the grossest outpoints existing in the Regime calling itself a Church.

                You know that would happen if it were discovered you merely had questions and wanted to know for yourself — how sad that it has been instilled in you that this would mean “throwing your life away.” And how said that, yes, it would result in more hell any person ever should go through, for yourself and your loved ones.

                There is never more certainty obtained than when one *sees* personally.

                That you are threatened with the loss of everything, your children and 33 years of life, for asking valid questions and looking, is — in and of itself — a regime that is in direct contradiction with the true Scientology Codes purported and with teh definition of Operating Thetan.

                Your life and actions are yours to decide. The fact that you are *fear driven* and *threat controlled* (and I don’t say this as an offense, I say it as a factual reality that thousands of people share and have had perpetrated upon them, including myself) is, in my personal opinion, a travesty against the gift that L Ron Hubbard gave us.

                “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” -Aristotle

          • Staff members are tending to be robots. That is a condition far from the state of insouciance.
            Anyway, how anyone can be insouciance with such a little money that his daily living is at risk and with on the other hand such a demanding hours on duty? How a slave can be insouciance?
            Both the photograph, both the promo piece are “overt products”.
            The girl with the motion blurred hands looks like a crippled woman that is a mistake when a photograph is done. Cut is at the ankles and although that is not obvious as you do not actually see the ankles, you do not cut a person at the ankles. Trousers on left leg is in bad shape. Floor is messy, looks like an unfinished building, wall has a bad shape at right side down. Typography is indiscriminate. Quickie, bad job.

      • 2cents,
        ‘What do I know’, well, you know enough to say what you observe and you’ve done that. That’s a good thing. I appreciate it as well as many others on this blog doing the very same thing.

    • I smell a rat my2c, I think you need to be more insouciant.

      You sound very very serious…

      • My2c

        This is a game of jump rope – remember that on the playground at school? The game is already in motion, people swinging the rope from both ends, and you want to join in. Being able to jump into the moving rope without tripping up and spoiling the game depends on being able to duplicate the rhythm and anticipate where the swinging rope will be as you jump into it.

        What you don’t want to do is to stand there and not jump, complaining that the rope is being swung too hard, or too fast, or somehow not to your liking. If you do that, the game stops, the fun stops, and people will want to play with you.

        Duplicate the game, join it as it is, and then co-create it in the way you wish.

        Now, wanna play?

      • correction: People will NOT want to play with you.

    • My 2 Cents,

      I don’t doubt that somewhere today there’s still a genuinely insouciant staff menber. But were you around in the late 70’s? Talk about insouciance! Our mission back then was a truly incousiant environment, and for that reason it was always full of people congregating , whether or not they were on services.

      That mission/org (it became a Cl V org) no longer exists. The last time I visited it before it closed for good there was not a single public person in the place. The purges of the early 80’s took care of that. The Mission Holder’s meeting of the early 80’s made the missions safe for . . . robots, not insouciant public and staff.

      So yes, maybe there’s still an insouciant staff member someplace in the world (though I haven’t seen one in years, I’ve only seen resigned looks on the faces of staff). But in a truly scientological environment the whole place is insouciant and people gravitate to the scene and don’t want to leave.

      Is there any org or mission today that anyone can say that about?

    • My 2 cents,

      my first reaction was the same as yours.

      But being trained by the Independants on that blog and on scientology-cult to LOOK, I immediately searched for CoM viruses, I realized my thinking to be quite contaminated with over the years. And while examining that and having seen Fishdaddy’s extremely well and sophisticatedly worded analysis of the picture lingo, an LRH statement from 25 March 1953 (Tape: The Elements & How to Run Matched Terminals) sprang into my mind:
      “For instance, there – fear is a sort of reversed enthusiasm. You can watch somebody exhibiting enthusiasm and he’s coming out thataway, you see? Well, a person with – doing fear is really doing some sort of a level like that and you can very easily get a person who is continually in fear mixed up with a person who is enthusiastic. You are dealing with somebody who’s about 1.0 on the Tone Scale and you think you’re dealing with a person who has a tremendous amount of enthusiasm.
      “Only all this person’s trying to do that has all this enthusiasm, he’s just trying to hold everything off of him. With what? By being afraid of it, see? Push out that outflow, push out that outflow, and that will hold them all off. And you’ll – this person very oftem will mistake this for enthusiasm.
      “And it’s merely this: It’s if he can put it out fast enough and hard enough and acceptably enough he drives them off hard enough. So sometimes he’s more scared than others. Okay.”

      This is what I could observe over and over and over again with these “insouciant” staff I met time and again, and that LRH quote solved the riddle I had with these Wenseys (who are by the way very able to make you feel guilty if you don’t jump on their train).

    • crashing upwards

      my2c, I could grant you your point and sense you only want to hear about the crimes and not any side trips doing critiques on promo. I trust you consider the out ethics in higher every serious business. Which it is. I am wondering what more you need to hear. Whats your tipping point before you demand publicly that change happens. I am not a scientologist. I dont have any skin in the game like you. But I am amazed that scientologists still lurk and do nothing.

      • To all:

        Been in since 1977. Org pay was non existent, lived in a room with six other men and ate peanut butter and moonlighted. Got married had two kids and was bombarded with entheta from damage claim lawsuits. Did a “Clear Interview” to attest to Clear (despite only one session of NED) followed by DCSI a few years later where I was still determined to be Clear. Yeah, right.

        All this was pre DM so in my opinion the “good old days” are a myth.

        “Post DM” I’ve had many wins in both training and auditing. I have two daughters in SO who are incredibly able and theta. They’ve been in SO for 15 years.

        Sorry if this doesn’t fit the narrative.

        I have often been treated like shit for being in the GO (probably because of DM), have observed MUCH I don’t like but I won’t ignore the GOOD I have observed either.

        It has only been six months since SP Times article came out. I will continue to observe and apply my Code of Honor.

        I long ago abandoned the Thursday by 2:00 PM
        mentality so what’s the rush? 😉

      • Dear my 2¢ — thanks for the further r factors. I think a great deal about WHERE someone was on post in the good ole days has a great deal to do with their memories.

        I was on post as a new scientologist at CCLA — got married, had my OWN berthing with my ex — ate very little, got paid less but we were ALL really in love with Yvonne and what we were doing. Went from zero to OTIII there.

        The fact that you were GO — possibly allowed you a tad more time with your daughters. Always a good thing. Most GO that I knew were never denied their days off, their moonlighting (thus more money) or their family time.

        I have a few friends still active in Scn whose children are in the Sea Org and have been for years AND those kids are good, and doing well.

        Another one – has been declared and hasn’t seen his daughter for 10 years. When I saw her last she was just a tad bit too harsh in my book. I think she missed having a dad and mom.

        Anyway — part of the rush is …

        I’m concerned about the hole at Int and whether good people are ever going to be able to survive it intact. This latest about the couple who were for YEARS at the tip top and have now left due to her health is another shocker.

        I’m confident you will, like me, will at some point stand up and be counted. It must come with our own sense of timing.


  13. Marty,
    Aside from the insouciance, I have a cram. PR Series 8, TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

  14. :Lets’ get one thing strainhgt.

    1) If anyone was truly insouciant in the David Miscavige regime of ™ ® © spirituality, they would be scowled at and slammed for being “airy fairy.”

    1) ™ ® © spirituality Promo will say *anything* that a survey determines will push the local buttons to get people in (hooked).

    1) “Insouciant” obviously came back as a marketing survey “button” — so they pushing it. But fail fail fail … If THAT is insouciant, the sky is black.

    1) The ad targeting locals to take the bait for ™ ® © spirituality is more like Conservative Cheerfulness,. Caption: “Who me? My hands are clean! I’m so care free. See? Look at me. And I get it for less, Shop LV.”

    Can you spel CON trived?

    Hey all you insouciant Las Vegas locals …the slot machine clanging light happy implant is what they’ve targeted you for. Hooks baited.

    1. 1.1. is 1.1. is 1.1. is 1.1.

  15. I’m laughing. BTW sorry for the typos! Running to make a phone meeting.

  16. This is insouciant! lol

  17. I was told agaon today by a Kool aide drinker that “they are acusing others of what they themselves are guilty of!”

    Now i believe that some people have done this before; acused others of what they are guilty of. But it is not an absolute. If a woman is raped and acuses the man who raped her of the crime, does that mean she is the guilty one??

    To use this datum as an absolute shows a very low IQ in my opinion.

    I acuse you all of being able to think for yourself!!


  18. Speaking of the Las Vegas “Ideal Org” location, let me tell you that DM needs to be crammed as well on the LRH advices and policies on location of Scientology Orgs.

    Those of us former SO Members who live here laugh at the location of the new org.

    They couldn’t have picked a WORSE location. It is located on the older east side of Las Vegas down a side street that dead ends and is surrounded by old residential areas. And when I say old, I mean old homes from the 60s and 70s.

    If you weren’t looking for the street the org is on, you would miss it completely. The building is a former Jewish Temple.

    Las Vegas for many many years used to be the fastest growing city in the USA because of all the work that was available here. It also attracts people from all over the World.

    What they should have done is put some sort of Div 6 Public activity on the Las Vegas Strip that disseminated to people from all over the world, not just the Las Vegas area.

    Then put a large org in the Henderson/Green Valley area in the Southeast or the Summerlin area in the Northwest. These are the areas of town where people ACTUALLY LIVE who work here.

    Another major league waste of your donations I am sorry to say.

    Cramming order extended.

    • Mark,
      It looks like it’s as Joe says, to Ethics first, and then retrain, from ‘have you ever seen this book before?’

    • Mark, When I visited the new “Ideal” Org in Malmo, Sweden, last summer, the place was not even in Malmo anymore but in an industrial suburb with literally zero foot traffic. In fact, two girls we stopped on the street for directions hadn’t even heard of the street. (It was two blocks away.)

      Then when we asked the guy at the reception gate to the sugar factory in the next building where the Scn church was he asked, “Are you going there to get brainwashed?” In other words, the org’s PR Area Control did not extend 200 meters from its front door.

      I went in and got a tour but then a CMO Int staff member on mission to get some staff inside this mausoleum saw me and escorted me out. The staff had definitely seen the TRs film, though, I can attest to that.

      Someday, DM will be able to sell the building to a high tech marketing firm for a bundle if the org doesn’t make it and the Int Landlord Office will pocket the dough, even though Malmo public paid for the entire thing with donations. Is this a racket or what?!

      • Joe and Mark, I take it you guys have seen the ample LRH BIC advices, that instruct management to locate orgs dead center of the busiest foot traffic areas of any given city.

      • The ideal org in Portland was purchased a couple of years ago. It just about broke the field to scrape up the money for this thing. What they didn’t tell the field at large is that the local org doesn’t own their own building, they pay market rent back to Int Landlords office even though the local donations paid for the bldg. To this day they still have not moved in and are leasing another space. They int landlords office is collecting the rent from the current tenants and it is not going back into the local ideal org fund.

        Now the real kicker is that about a month ago they announced to the field that the ideal org bldg which was purchased – and not even being used is going to cost too much money to reno. They bought at the top of the market (if they would have held off maybe 3 months they would have saved 20-30%) as there was so much pressure to make it go right! So now they are going to sell the current bldg to then buy another one that doesn’t cost as much to renovate. If they only knew how ridiculous this all sounded to the public. They are going to lose money on the bldg they bought at the top of the market, so a big loss there, the bldg they are wanting to buy is not even for sale, and has a very famous longtime restaurant in the bottom of it, and the price tag is going to be higher than what they paid for the first one. I know so many people in Portland who are just beside themselves at the PR lies and just plain out right craziness associated with this. People who probably would not have blinked an eye at giving donations, but for the first time they finally see how bad the business really is!

      • Going to get a tour of the org! Damn Jim that’s insouciant 😀

      • Oops sorry – I mean Joe. I mean you too Jim in general LOL

      • Freedom Fighter

        I’ve seen some of them and have even heard that, in some cities, LRH even said specifically where the Org should be placed. Of course, in some areas, this is “too expensive” so the handling: buy 2 buildings — one in the outskirts for the Org and one downtown to be set up as a test center!

      • Nashville CC is located in an industrial area. Zero foot traffic. It is gorgeous though.

      • Marty,
        It’s been a while, what’s BIC again?

        • Jim, not sure precisely, but I think something Building Investment Committee.

          • Marty,
            I recall it is Building Investment something too. One of the other guys should pipe up. Chuck?

            It’s a fact, the more I go up the line, the less pictures I have around me and all I’ve got on this one is pretty flimsy. Everytime I go to look, poof, it isn’t there. By the time I find the battery that’s supposed to be putting it up, poof, gone.

          • That’s right, csw’s get sent to them in two parts, BIC 1 and 2. They approve location and building plans from what I know, but I’ve never seen a written definition for it.

          • BIC = Building Investment Committee. LRH set it up so that Sea Org Reserves (the members)would invest in upstat orgs, securing their future by buying a building for them in prime locations. You could CSW the committee too
            but you’d better be able to prove that you were worth the investment (viable and expanding). Sea Org reserves were used, NOT public donations and no expensive renos or furniture would be paid for.

            Historically it went in spurts, sometimes LRH would order a series of building investments made for orgs.

            Many of the orgs excellently located today were LRH BIC orgs, chosen based on strict adherence to BIC checklists. But that all seems to have been thrown out the window by DM. I drove by the “great” Tamps org recently. It’s on a side street in a residential district. Are you kidding me?

      • Joe,
        that’s INSOUCIANCE to enter Malmö Org and get a tour —
        Still ROTFALOL picturing you being escorted out by a CMO Missionaire… OMG:

        HCO bring order!! I am cracking…

      • Haven’t heard that term BIC in a long time. I think it means Building Investment Commitee. John McGinley used to be the Chairman of it at one time when he was LRH Pers Comm if I recall correctly.

        The other major outpoint here in Las Vegas is that they are renovating a Jewish Temple, when they could have designed the layout of a perfect organization, bought some land and built the place from the ground up the way they wanted for less money probably than they paid for the temple and the resulting renovations.

        Particularly now with the down real estate market and construction companies out of work.

      • Joe, Thanks for the Obs Mission report!

        I think the years overseeing Cine has rubbed off on DM. He runs things by “smoke and mirrors” so purchasing buildings out in the sticks with no foot traffic and bussed in public fits his “image is everything” agenda.

        Sort of like those Hollywood sets where the building looks great on the outside and on film, but when you go through the front door, it is just a facade held up by 2 x 4’s and cement blocks with handles on them.

      • Sam,
        It’s OK, Joe is about the most insouciant guy you could know. He always made my day and still does. Imagine, ‘Hello, I’d like to take a tour of the org’ and he’s Joe Howard! Man, talk about helping the greenery do better with free theta, Joe Howard.

        bluecharm aka Jim Logan

      • So Lucy..that is why the AOLA MAA was recently sent up here to Portland to “handle a flap with the OTVllls”…very interesting.

        By the way, I’d enjoy getting together if you’d like. You can reach me through facebook. Sherry Katz. Shoot me over an email.

  19. I suppose he also thinks his own sadistic smile is insouciant!

  20. Call to see if you too qualify and you, too can be “insouciantly” doing some of these antics (documented on tape) for their Fuhrer. Staffers: Lie to start frivolous law suits and Hide in bushes and snap photos! Wheeeeee. How insouciant is that?

    Just saw this exclusive report about staff caught on tape in action in their “insouciant” tone level. See for yourself.

    “Today Tonight” Show footage

    • Flora Sullivan, OT 8, making a “coo coo” gesture at the glass door. Insouciant. And Sue Hunt, lying, making aggressive gestures.

      These people, puppets or not, give LRH and Scientology a bad name. I’m disgusted and incensed.

      Insouciant? *That is 180 degree diametrically opposed and opposite* of the reality, documented here in action: Arrogance, slimy stealth, condescending superciliousness, whiny paranoia, dishonest manipulation, cheating, lying.

      This is insanity. We are looking at it. Just like people looked at Hitler and *tolerated and obeyed* him.

      • I agree with Cowboy Poet on this point. 75% of SO staff at Flag are under 30 years old and many of them under 21. Youth, in its inexperience, is a whole different ballgame from veterans both of the C of S and of life. While Scientology has some valuable truths and a workable system, it is limited. There just in no substitute for living and SO members don’t get to live, in the sense of all eight dynamics. Raising children and working with children and young adults for decades, it is obvious they are not “adults in small bodies”. These kids are being programmed and brainwashed, pure and simple and their youth makes that job all the easier for the C of S.

    • veritas,
      This Australian tv spot is an absurd anachronism. On the part of the reporters and the players. The idiot senator is quoting from an issue cancelled decades ago. That’s dropped out time, again, an anachronism. I’ve seen people post stuff about Paulette Cooper on a 3rd Flow, sympathy flow, as if it was yesterday. It wasn’t. What is painful to watch in this tv spot, is that these morons miss the fact that today, right now, in Gilman Hot Springs, California, mirrored around the world in Sea Orgs and Class V orgs and in the living rooms and homes of public, are present time, suppressive insanities.

      The only reporters that have proved the rule, by being an exception, are Tom Tobin and Joe Childs.

      What a ludicrous circumstance to witness, that tv spot. On BOTH sides, which leaves me to wonder… to gawp, to shake my head at the product of the Church of Mestcavige.

      God, what a horrible travesty.

      Marty, Sam, Roberto, Cathy, Chrissie, Christie, Jack, Mark F, Sarge, Sinar, Jackson, and all I’ve missed by name, we will get this back. We ARE back. One day, maybe, the half-wits in this news story might even notice. I ain’t holding my breath.

      • Jim, I agree with your analysis. I’ve been saying this for months: when you wrong target policy for the DM administration’s crimes, you are wrong targeting. You give the perpetrators a pass by giving them a defense. And it is plain false. Even if the policy were extant or intended to followed as they claim, in DM’s organization you are not allowed follow policy in either event.

      • idiot, morons, half-wits? Even if you’re right about the policy, Jim, why do you have to speak about people of good will like that?

      • Jim Logan. This is how the outside world sees it. Out of date or not. This policy gives ample ammo because in my opinion it should never have been concieved by a human mind in the first place. But many a policy has past under the bridge by many men in history. The outside world LOOKS and sees people being harrased by the C of $ and they go look for the why. Indeed these people are not scientologists but that is not the point. The Policy as written fits perfectly the behavior displayed for the outside world by the church. Alsoo calling the good senator an idiot is a way of dead agening. This man is an Independant senator and from what I have seen he is a very capable man. By the way the original meaning of the word Idiot that is derived from the greek means: “He who does not dable in politics”.

        I know what you mean, I know your viewpoint. But as long as the C of $ misbehaves itself you message will not come through. The more reason to strangle the serpent a bit quicker. On paper it all looks good but in practice………..

        Marty policy or not, In my eyes there is no defense. And the perpatrators may put up this defense but that will sound much like the defense of the Nazis: “Befhel ist Befhel” Either way they are screwed. In the end if they have the courage they have to point up.

        Whit regards CD

      • Heather,
        Are you ‘serious’? Loosen up there. I know the american’s don’t wear the wigs that barristers do, so it can’t be that that’s too tight.

        Intellectually challenged? Um, mentally shy, coy? Er, in anonspeak ‘tards’? What pray is the PC term for a guy who, if he had half a brain would be a half-wit. A person who is desperately trying to get two cells to click together to generate a thought. Um, you know, a technically referred to on various IQ tests ìmbecile. Let me know.

      • Jim, Thanks for summing it up so well.

        And Marty, I see, yes, the attitude in that TV spot “justifies” continued aggression/illegal and heart rending activities by the Church of Mestology, the flip side of the same coin.

        One of the best things we can do for the ‘world at large’ is to provide the information for that very distinction — Real Scientology vs. Church of Mestology.

        Dave Adams wrote: ““Scientology” and “the church” are generalities, and I agree specifics are needed to evaluate.”

        Tom Tobin and Joe Childs deserve prizes for journalism. They should be lauded for their courage and integrity.

        It’s sadly telling of the state of our media, i.e. *owned*, that journalists are afraid to step in and investigate the real atrocities, ongoing atrocities, and distinguish them from the real Scientology.

        In retrospect, it will be one of the great stories of history. As usual, only perceived by those wronged. And then the masses ask how people could just stand by and let it happen.

        We really need more to distinguish the differences and similarities, instead of sticking with the polar opposites “Scientology is evil” ragged old “drive up the ratings” line of this story.

        In a society that worships money, the Church of Mestology is one more nail in the casket.

        • Veritas, a lot of truth there. I am going to confirm some of it about the “owned” corporate media in a future post once some final dots are connected in a several month investigation.

      • anoncatdaddy,
        OTAY, the good senator is not an idiot by the derivation of the term. As to the aussie tv spot, I guess you have a point, there are lots of people that read the National Enquirer and the Star, over here, that do consider that Elvis’s alien baby is really Elvis, they do, they really really do.

        So, I suppose that this drivel is pablum from one to another. As to ‘defend’ , I think you missed that that policy has never been cancelled. With judicious use, and as the correct estimation of effort, it is every bit as effective as it ever was. Unlucky for some, the current fellas don’t really get it.

        • Jim, good call. I hear the natter boards are astir with how I allegedly “torpedo’d” the good Senator’s plans. Wait till you hear what a cheap, grandstander this cat turns out to be. Will post once the anti’s have gone from their high simmer into a full righteous indignation boil.

          • That was wholly predictable. It took me a few minutes of research to conclude that Senator X reeked of opportunism.

            Many moons ago, I worked in that game; it’s a magnet for car salesmen and personal injury attorneys and this guy has the worst qualities of both.

          • “All warfare is based on deception.”

            Sun Tzu

    • “anoncatdaddy,
      OTAY, the good senator is not an idiot by the derivation of the term. As to the aussie tv spot, I guess you have a point, there are lots of people that read the National Enquirer and the Star, over here, that do consider that Elvis’s alien baby is really Elvis, they do, they really really do.”

      *Catsquints* I just wanted to say that the C of S will be judgded by its behavior. This behavior will be handlled by the existing laws and viewpoints that exist in the socïety where it is judged.

      Jim logan, I will applaud your appearance in any courtroom explaining from an expert standpoint on Scientology policy.

      I do not know if the window of opportunity is closed yet or even has opened at all to get your policy expertise in. The C of S would cringe if they ever saw you coming ready to give in evidence or statements. Tghey would do anything to discredit you or even destroy you if they can.

      To the outside world the current behaviour of C of S members ir mesmerizing. The hiding, the flipping the bird, The false AVO’s. They wonder why high ranking people of a Church (would be any church for that matter) behave in this way.

      “So, I suppose that this drivel is pablum from one to another. As to ‘defend’ , I think you missed that that policy has never been cancelled. With judicious use, and as the correct estimation of effort, it is every bit as effective as it ever was. Unlucky for some, the current fellas don’t really get it.”

      As for the National Enquier and the Star (wich I untill now never have heared of). Even here some people believe Elvis is alive lor that he was an Alien from outerspace. This slobber that this magazines put out is certanly bland sdoft cereal for people hardley beyond infant stage as you so aduquatly described.

      As for the total works of Scientology cancelled or not the Law of the land is the one acording the behaviour of the c of S and/or its members will be judged. But your expertise is refreshing and your interpretation can help keep implemantations between the bounderies of the Law.

      Kitty Cat

      P. G. Wodehouse:
      “The trouble with cats is that they’ve got no tact.”

  21. Cute—bet that “wanted poster” will bring in those young bucks like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat.

    Poor thing…in a year or two after the love of her life is shipped to an “outer org” or a gulag and she’s been coerced into an abortion right after he leaves, some of that bloom she’s got will be a bit faded.

    It’s just not right.

    Most of the people on this blog had much the same or worse happen to them with the important exception that what was received or bought did not come with directions that said,

    “We’ve now reached the point where training is a matter of ‘just add water and mix’.”
    LRH Birthday celebration, March 13,
    2005 (and reprinted in Scientology News issue #31)

    This young girl, with her whole life in front of her, is about to be betrayed, lied to, manipulated and cheated.

    Having raised four children successfully, I get fighting mad when I think of the impressionable and forthright young people that are being set up for losses in this travesty of truth.

    It’s no different than the politicians and priests have done since the beginning of time.

    • Cowboy Poet, Welcome back partner. You made a huge splash with your poetry around Xmas time as I recall. Again, you’ve laid down some hard truths in a very understable fashion. Thank you, and please don’t be a stranger.

    • No doubt. When I was a staff member in my 20’s if someone had told me that when I grew up and had daughters of my own the idea of them joining staff would become my worst nightmare, I would have thought they were crazy.

      You can accumulate a hell of a lot of people with major BPC in 30 years time eh? Most of them having managed to get some real tech under their belts too. Hmmm, talk about back lash.

      I’m with you cowboy, I have an entirely different viewpoint on these kids, something much more than others to self flow but the others to others flow that really sets off my Charles Bronson streak.

      This promo is very strange, and my god, big flunk on the bad cloning, the wall is blothchy and you can see that in reality that is an old cinderblock wall that’s been cloned over. Also, that ugly grey/beige carpet the standard stuff you get in any down market rental. Not even so much as a baseboard. If nothing else it looks thrown together with little attention to real quality and detail on the part of the photographer or graphic artist.

    • Cowboy-

      You’re right: big win on the hotness factor. Don’t know a thing about insouciance, but marketing that Scientology attracts babes can’t hurt. Heck, it makes ME want to go.

      I keep waiting for the new org uniforms to show up. I don’t have the pictures handy, but they were a hoot.

  22. For the record Wensey, if you ever see this, you look very cute and indeed Insouciant from the photos. I hope you aren’t hurt by this.

    I hope you come to understand why you are being “picked on” here, it has nothing to do with you really. You probably feel the same excitement at the recognition of the value of “scientology” that many others of us did at one point and still do in my case.

    I hope that when you find that the church has subtle diverged, (and less subtly) and become less and less a representation of what LRH wrote, that you will be able to again find your insouciance. Some of us have, some have not.

    For some it has meant the abandonment of their hopes, to have had the experiences they had with the church. And that is why you will see some anger, and sarcasm, and seeming entheta expressed about the church.

    But scientology is not the church. Scientology is what you know, and the skills you gained in acquiring knowledge, and the technology to remove the barriers to knowledge. The church is/was a tool to help with that. Nothing more.

    The church is not scientology.

    You are Wensey. And me, and Marty, and a whole bunch of cool people. And what LRH said and wrote.

    And David Miscavige? Call me. Lets do lunch.

  23. Underground For Now

    I just wish Veritas could find another quote for his, “airy fairy” quote.

    ML, Jack Airey

  24. Throw that poor girl a hamburger!

  25. Wensey can afford to be insouciant for now. About 4 weeks ago a mission of over 50 people came into the LV org to man up the posts that the local staff were unable to fill.

    The Day ED, Mary Gay was replaced by a Sea Org member Char Cook. Mary has been a dedicated staff member for over 30 years. Last report I had on her was that she was kicked to the curb and is now a body reg.

    I would say that the current staffing is made up of about 10% locals and the rest recent outside recruits. When the party is over and everyone picks up their chips and leave, Wensey will be really stressed on trying to survive on just staff pay.

    • Ron, thanks for this. You know this is a pattern. They did the same thing in Dallas. In order to satisfy an over-reged ARC broken public, they very publicly hung the ED – saying she was the WHO for crim reging. Then they had a new crew shake the public down for tens of millions for DM’s org in a business park out by the airport. When the dust had settled, guess what they posted the WHO of crim reging on? You got it, REG.

    • Ron,
      I hat to presuppose something that may not be true but those 50 missionaires sent in to man up posts that the staff weren’t able to – my guess is their MO’s include they have to hold the post until they replace themselves. And where did those 50 missionaires come from, probably musical chaired from posts all over the SO. I wonder where these Missionaires are holed up? Who is paying for them to be there? In LRH’s time a 50 man mission was unheard of.

  26. Google web definition;
    •insouciance – carefreeness: the cheerful feeling you have when nothing is troubling you. nonchalant; indifferent; casually unconcerned.

    I personally dont know any scios that are still “in” that fit this description.
    Interesting piece of promo. It doesnt communicate at all.

    • Seems Wensey left a career in Real Estate to join staff….

      Noble intentions. I hope the best for her.

      I’ve got my invite to the opening Saturday, almost makes me want to do a road trip and say hi…

      I wonder? Does COB do the receiving line, mingle with the masses thing?


      • *
        Dave Adasms wrote: “Seems Wensey left a career in Real Estate to join staff…”

        Under the COB ™ brand regime, she has not switched careers.

      • Good point, Veritas.

        What I was going to point out is that a career in real estate probably left Wensey. The L.V. real estate market tanked last year and had not recovered. Being r.e. agent in L.V. is a lot like
        being unemployed. Now she’ll be employed, just not paid.

    • And on Facebook she obediently lists her two demi gods, Tom Cruise & John Travolta. ROFL.

  27. Bravo Marty !!

    You have a KNACK of saying the Right thing, at the Right Time !

    Including the CRAM ROFL !

    Including the creation of this BLOG…..

  28. Awwww shucks!!! Thanks Marty!!! The whole seriousness and feeding friends to the wolves game is pretty boring.. been there, done that, got the t-shirt!! LOL!!
    Isn’t mockery supposed to be flattery or something!?
    If we are the “bad” guys, I am happy to be among true friends who don’t “KR” for their own personal status or hidden crimes…
    Here’s to living life and playing BIG GAMES!! =)

  29. This picture reminds me of a time when Scientology was FUN. It seemed everyone was winning, everyone had smiles on their faces, everyone was helping one another. BIs were rarely seen and when seen were handled. Now the orgs are ghost towns, now you walk into an org and feel the flow of effort – forced ARC.

    Now this blog is the weightless watering hole for all the insoucance anyone will ever need. Drink up!

    Thank you Marty

  30. I agree. They didn’t even do insouciant right. If you look closely…her palms are right up against a seemingly invisible wall! And DM is trying to make it seem like she’s having “fun”! Welcome to the show!

  31. She obviously hasn’t gotten her first staff pay yet, or checked her comm basket for the KR on her for not getting target blah blah of IG Network Bulettin blah blah done. And the order to get on the next plane to the AO for ethics and cramming. Ah, the good old days….

  32. ClearlyMistreated

    Notice it’s a 323 area code? Obviously LA is having to bypass the locals to recruit.

  33. Hello Marty,

    So you know, Debbie and Greg Hugues are out of the hole and the S.O… They both re-joined theirs kids… Apparently from today source … They are on indefinite medical leave… Looking for a job and a new house… Debbie is apparently sick and need to have medical attention. they were not SP declared and did a standard leave… Some change from Int… Not everybody is being declared those days…

    • Holy freaking cow! What a piece of good news in the thread all about insouciance! Greg Hughes is probably the most insouciant person on planet Earth. At least he was and may still be. Man, what great news. I’d love to say hi. Any contact info on them would be appreciated.

    • Awesome news!

  34. my2cents,
    What Marty and Dave said.

    35 years ago, when I was 18, I read DMSMH, I’d been told about it by an acquaintence that day. Four days later, when I found out you could, I joined the Mission. A month later, I moved to the Central Org for Canada, Toronto, by the first week of January 76, Foster Thompkins and Dave Englehart had me sign a Sea Org contract. By then I’d been assigned Kha Khan by a Flag Mission for having a course room with over 250 students. I sold hundreds of DMSMH myself, on the street. I KNOW and still feel, the exhuberance, the joy that is so far above a body’s ability to express and put out. A spirit of play, of excitement at the amazing fact, Scientology exists and I’M a SCIENTOLOGIST.

    For me, I’m happy that the above poster and it’s sentiments still are the ideal. I understand your support of that. I support you in that.

    Here’s the rub, today, the facts of the scene reveal that poster, despite it’s hope, as 1.1. I wish it weren’t so. Honestly I do. So I could know that what is possible, what I gained and what I felt exuded down through the old wood and beat up carpet of that building where hundreds of people came, early to get a seat in the course room, every day, were possible for Wensey too.

    If she’s tough. If she studies and finds a person who she can co-audit with, she may just make it and stay with it to see what I’ve seen and felt and lived with and in Scientology. But, is there even a co-audit?

    Truly, I have cried, laughed, cringed and risen in righteous indignation and determination over the postings made on this blog. I’ve heard of unimaginable tech atrocities, things that leave me in speechless stunned dismay at how they could occur in something called a Scientology org. At FLAG, where I cut my teeth as a Sea Org member, where I knew any case would be cracked and which now, to my regret, I find I steer people who ask me, away from it, so they will have some chance to experience the real miracles and truth that is LRH’s work in that life.

    Wensey’s poster is a far cry from what existed when I got into this. It’s impressive to me, an audience, to see how far we have come in some of our promo. It’s 1000% better than any event I’ve seen in the past decades.

    By putting in ethics and justice on the suppressive elements that make that poster a sham, I sure hope that it will become as real to her and others, that insouciance, as it is for me, all these years later.

    • Jim,

      I believe most of the “bad” stuff I read here even if I didn’t personally observe it. The stories ring true.

      An example of the problem: I selected the children of a friend onto the Bridge. They trained up over the past two years and are now interned Flag Auditors. One as a staff member; one as a public. They are excellent products. They are now both in a far better places than they were as wog kids going to college.

      It is hard to want to attack or unmock a group that is getting that product.

      On top of that I can directly observe both the good of the SO and the bad of the SO in my own children.

      It is quite literally a GPM.

      • 2cents,
        I’m glad to hear of the two you mention, sincerely.
        In any organism, including the group, and we’re talking of various groups here that arise, the LV org is one for instance, there is the fact of survive-succumb. The Tone Scale.

        If an organism crosses over the make-break point of survive-succumb, it succumbs more than it survives and the opposite is true too.

        The overall organism of the Church of Scientology International, under an SP dictatorship, has taken on the tone scale characteristics of a fascism, a totalitarian dictatorship, as per the Tone Scale of groups. That doesn’t mean that various aspects of the larger CSI, an org, a mission, a department of one of them even, is not seeking to survive and is above 2.0. They will get products and thank goodness they still do.

        I saw JT the other night on the tube and HE got a product in Haiti along with all those who helped including the VMs.

        It can be a difficulty, along the lines of the GPM idea that you mention, when we are confronted with such insanity as has been described and on the other hand, there are still people getting Scientology results in various places. Frankly, it’s hard to have the joy that there is, even the picture of Wensey, stilted or real, when on the other side of that picture is a reality that must be confronted and dealt with.

        I say, have wins where you can and the two you mention are some. On the other hand, imagine what it could be like, and how many more wins, there would be were the top of the org board not peopled with PTS persons and dominated by a fascistic Suppressive.

        Sometimes the omitted, what should be there, is harder to see since it’s not there. What should be there is so much more. That omitted and the added inapplicable suppression is what we’re talking about.


      • my2c,

        I can sympathize with those sentiments.

        But when you get a good taste of injustice yourself things start to swing in the other direction. When you give your blood, sweat and tears and then see others that have and get smashed about you realize that the good cannot last if the insanity doesn’t stop.

        My opinion is the ones here that are trying to do something about this are the new ethics officers. People that know there is good still available to have but will not turn a blind eye to the out-points.

        I hope you join us.


      • The new auditors can’t audit, they are not “excellent products”, that’s just part of DM’s big lie. My eldest daughter’s case was butchered by the very lastest and greatest “excellent product” at the “mecca”, just three months ago. And after he’d finished throwing the Auditor’s Code out the window (under DM’s duress) he refused to take the red tag off and she was kicked out of Flag, just dumped out on the street like you put out the garbage. After that she left the C of M of her own accord.

        These auditors are being betrayed by their “training”, I’m not pointing the finger at them. They should be excellent products, but they are not.

        T Paine

      • my2¢,

        I can understand you very well. I’ve the same problem as you do. One learns to not care about entheta in Scientology, to see the good things and concentrate on theta. but i know that the told stories are true as I experienced similar things in the last 35 years.
        Nevertheless I continued to concentrate on theta and had all kind of justifications for wrongdoings and became older and older and thought that only next life I’ll make it to real OT, or that it doesn’t exist the way I envisioned it, that I was wrong with my postulates about what the bridge will deliver.
        I came finally to the conclusion that Scientology is my religion and my faith and totally forgot the reason why i started it at all.

        It ‘s no more my faith or religion now, but it’s again SCIENTOLOGY the science to know how to know and the road to total freedom. I’m no more pissed about attacks on the religion of Scientology as its not my religion. I’m no more fighting for religious freedom. Why should I ?
        Look at the history of religions. My purpose is to teach other people about the science of how to know and want to teach people that there is a road to total freedom

        And since I’m “LOOKING” and don’t compromise anymore with my own reality, I start to become the Real OT I was dreaming of in my youth.

        Nevertheless, I still have to a certain degree a kind of a circuitry in my thinking after 35 years of being a Scientologist that goes like this:
        ” Oh, the vm’s in haiti are successful and JT is all over the media, he is OT, we are expanding and I should immediatedly report to the org, to be part of this expansion, that’s really full of theta, DM must have a strategy I can’t get as being to fool to understand, but we expand, how theta!!!!”

        My final conclusion about it is and it’s hard to confront:

        – Hitler created so much theta, everybody had a job, the whole nation was doing sports, he built Highways, he built lots of houses for the population, the germans had nice hollydays camps where they could go to. He cared so much about the youth, they were in organisations where they had fun together, they had good schools and everybody could go to school. This was all so theta and many people with good intentions helped on it and did concentrate onto theta and didn’t care about the funny rumours. The whole population went each week into the pictures to see a movie and before that were shown all the great wins and new deeds of Hitler.
        So what’s the problem ?

        As LRH says the TRUTH will set you free!

        Have a nice day !

      • luna,
        Keep in mind, auditing, including the 3D auditing we`re doing, converts entheta to theta. So, enjoy the theta. Meanwhile, we`re going to continue right on down to the source of the entheta and handle it. The tech here is ethics, to the point where tech goes in. Man, this is fun, so you and 2cents sort out what you gotta and with that and more free theta, heck, things solve. They just do.

      • Oops, should have for LO. Sorry luna, I got my ‘ls’ in a loolp.

    • Yup, you are right, bluecharm. It gets easier to do that every day, and this blog is a big part of the reason why.

      Say, being a beautiful fishing lure and all, you don’t by any chance look like a little butterfly or moth, do you?

    • Thought provoking


      After reading Musial Chairs, Int Based Style it became clear that the church I knew was no longer there. When I looked at the list of people in the hole I recognized someone I knew personally.

      I reflected on the fact that, while I was studying about the purpose of Int mananagement and it’s team of specialists, they were already in the hole. The whole concept was a sham. I decided to withdraw my allegiance to the church at that point.

      If you want to get a great perspective of the magnitude of the suppression, read Conterfeit Dreams by Jeff Hawkins. It is an easy read and short but very explosive in impact. You will move up and down the tone scale throughout the book. It is his accounting of life in the Sea Org. He clearly shows how DM on a grand scale, not only suppressed Scientologists, but Scientology.

      You have to wonder what Scientology would be like today if DM had never been in the picture. And, I think you will understand why he needs to be removed.

      • Theo Sismanides

        Thought provoking,

        You are so right. If DM had never been in the picture… this is the attitude! Yes, the picture would be much much different.

  35. What a shame that LV org doesn’t follow LRH PR & Marketing policies to come up with a better idea and more inviting promo!

    I think Jackson or someone in the PR dept. will be busted by DM.

    Is DM going to really see LV org or going there to have some real “fun”?

  36. Ask that staff member if he was feeling insouciant when he was sitting at the backseat of a Grayhound bus for a day, blowing from his church after he was forced to take a post he did not want. Or ask that staff member who was put under 24hr watch for weeks because he refused to hand over his passport to the MAA. By the way back in the day LRH trusted this same man so much so as to hand over an envelope to his custody marked Section III, OT; his original discoveries of that level.

  37. Many years ago I lived in the UK. Most, not all of their billboards were utterly incomprehensible to me.

    Didn’t make a lick of sense. How is THAT good marketing?
    I mean you had to be some sort of decoder to get the drift.

    THIS promo piece? HUH? What is she doing — jumping on a mini-trampoline? Why the hands up? And for many what the heck does insouciant mean?

    Marty nailed it. This promo piece is for US —

    It continues to get more bizarre — I expect the next post from Marty to be a real shocker.


  38. Two Cents
    My take on this (no eval intended) – just food for thought. I have often seen ‘enthusiam’ displayed at the events where one and all will admit that they HATE being forced to sit through 3 hours of inflow.
    The video of the announcement of LRH’s death (where the details of such were brushed over quickly in order to get to the more important point of where the money was going) shows a very ‘enthusiastic’ crowd being forced to bypass any personal grief in the loss of their friend… and… cheering! (google the video for a demo).
    I think the following reference applies:
    Lecture 25 March 1953:
    “… There’s always something below 2.0 on the Tone Scale which is a mockery and mimicry and a pretended agreement with something actual, high on the Tone Scale.
    For instance, there – fear is a sort of a reversed enthusiasm. You can watch somebody exhibiting enthusiasm and he’s coming out thataway, you see? Well, a person doing fear is really doing some sort of a level like that and you can very easily get a person who is continually in fear mixed up with a person who is enthusiastic. You are dealing with somebody who’s about 1.0 on the Tone Scale and you think you’re dealing with a person who has a tremendous amount of enthusiasm.
    Only, all this person is trying to do that has all this enthusiasm, he’s just trying to hold everything off of him. With what? By being afraid of it, see? Push out that outflow, push out that outflow that will hold them all off. And you – this person very often will mistake this for enthusiasm.
    And it’s merely this: it’s if can can put it out fast enough and hard enough and acceptably enough, he drives them off hard enough. So sometimes he’s more scared than others. Okay…”

    • Sam, now here is a trained Scientologist correlating and using tech with personal integrity.

      • Marty,

        My initial reaction was WTF? The books were messed up for 30 years. How could that be??? I also remembering thinking I didn’t like DM laying the blame on a few steno gals.

        I was appalled at the over the top regging that occurred for the next two years when the tapes got released. There is one Church terminal I will literally not talk to to except in a “Good Roads Good Weather” as a result. If that ever occurs again I will without question tell terminals to F off. I can tell you one thing as a result of yours and others efforts I have no “fear” of the MAA.

        As for the courses themselves I was not impressed. I do not like to study with so much theory and no real practical. I think it is a joke the PDCs and other OT type lectures are considered “Basic”.

        The Sups were for the most part very high ARC but allowed unbelievable amount of out study tech to go by as there were only one or two sups handling quite few students and between targeting and meter checks they didn’t have much time to watch the course room.

        I was particularly dismayed when there was word
        that DM was in town and suddenly the course room was filled with Sups like you see in a promo piece. Then it went back to one or two sups handling way too many students.

        As for the books and tapes themselves they seem like very nice products. The only real major alteration I’ve verified is the one PDC tape. The glossaries are nice but I think they go a bit over the top on defining pretty simple words on almost every page.

        • My 2Cents. That is what I thought. I didn’t ask about the rest of your clever PR for DM that you just had to throw in; but it seems to always come no matter what you are asked. The German people were quite satisfied with the improvement of their life styles under Hitler too, and were quite willing to ignore how those gains were made possible. We’re not. You’ve confirmed yourself as a DM troll. Will probably be your last comment here. For those who don’t get why, I think it will become clearer when I describe DM’s “intelligence” strategy which I have become privy to.

          • Marty,

            Sorry if I itsa’ed too much. If you think I was PRing DM I’m really not sure what to say but I can assure you I’m no troll. I just call it like I see it. If you want to cut me off it’s no skin off my nose.

            When I blew in the mid 1980s and contacted Mayo’s group I was also accused of being a “GO plant”.


            • 2Cents said: “When I blew in the mid 1980s and contacted Mayo’s group I was also accused of being a “GO plant”. ” Exactly. And because Mayo’s group didn’t have training and 20 years experience in your field, they q and a’d with your type – and became history.

              • m,
                so its either all in or all out, no fence sitting right?

                • protect your source,
                  Hmmm, lemmee see, well, err, jus’ a sec, ummm, well, I’m not sure, but, then, ummmm, errr, I dunno.

              • Marty,
                Sir, there is good reason that Qual and HCO are a bit up on the org board. I may be good at the Qual hat, but you, you excel in HCO among other talents. Yesirree bob. That be a ‘cha-ching’ as a couple of pennies go in the can.

            • my two cents: I say desperate smooching atempt is desperate.

            • 2cents, if you’re so interested in exonerating yourself you should comment on the 20 year stat graphs. But you won’t of course.

              “Sorry if I itsa’ed too much.” But you didn’t itsa you laid out a very clear case of loving the squirrel stat crasher to death. Lip service to “DM is bad” means nothing. Get back to me on the stats and what that means for what Miscavige has done to Scientology.

              I’m at war with all fence sitters at this point. Family concerns DO NOT come first. This is the most dire situation on your whole track compounded by the fact that we need momentum right now and we won’t get another chance.

              You are an instigator and lots of things but above all that you are a slave and you hate the fact that free beings still exist

              • Boyd.

                One word: insouciant.

                • Lunamoth, insouciance isn’t all. “Above all else be effective” -LRH (don’t have reference). Also here’s another nice quote:

                  “A preclear, very often, when he is processed, is completely unintelligible about what he wants. You ask him, ‘What do you want?’ And he’ll say, ‘I want to be happy.’ Well, that is the biggest, the biggest swindle in this universe. That is the great swindle: that one can live in this universe and, twenty-four hours a day, twelve months of a year or a hundred units of galactic time be happy. He can’t. It’s impossible. Because he’d be miserable if he were.

                  “He himself is seeking drama, strain. I have never seen anyone enjoying life so well as some girl playing the beautiful sadness of having been jilted. It’s only when she can’t play the beautiful sadness of having been jilted that the beautiful sadness overcomes her and you have to start processing it.

                  “As an auditor you run into this in a case: This case has had the most remarkable love affairs, and it’s done this and that, and is perfectly happy to tell you about them, rather proudly. But always watch for that glint of pride under this. This is not aberrative material. It’s the time when they couldn’t put out any kind of beingness, and so stopped and dammed it in its flow, that they got into trouble. People then were working to refuse them the ability to be some specific thing. They were refusing beingness.”

                  — L. Ron Hubbard
                  from “The Granting of Beingness” ,2nd American Advanced Clinical Course.

                  • I’m familiar with that excerpt, too, Boyd.

                    What I was commenting on is your tone in the earlier comment. I happily left that behind in the church. I don’t see that viewpoint to have gotten the church or anyone other than dm anywhere. It’s not the winning valence to me.

                    I don’t mistake the no-sympathy attitude for toughness anymore. I have found that granting of beingness, especially when it overrides the desire to knock heads, is usually the most effective way to go.

                    You’re entitled to your opinion of the relative value to “the universe” of someone else’s family. I would just urge you to remember that you’re talking about someone else’s dynamics. Unless they share that second dynamic with you and unless you are also taking 100 % responsibility for it, you realistically have no say in it, and just dismissing it the way you did will only earn you an opposing terminal if the person is in reasonably good shape, and low-toned aquiessence if they’re not.

                    I can see from your comments that you are still a very dedicated scientologist and that you have lots of experience in many areas that I don’t. It’s also obvious that you’re a dynamic and brave guy – I read your bio. I don’t think you’re wrong to feel this way, but I do think you might want to re-examine this viewpoint for it’s workability, and that would include how much help and support you illicit for your cause from others when you assert it like that.

                    • Posted in the wrong place due to my learning the ropes, so I’m repeating:


                      Very well stated. Creating opposing terminals and ridges is a waste of time & energy. I appreciate invitations to look and As-Is.

                    • Thanks, Lookingness.

                    • I don’t k now if anyone’s still listening on this thread, but just in case . . . this is very well put, Luna.

                      “I don’t mistake the no-sympathy attitude for toughness anymore.” Yep, that one (mistaking no sympathy for toughness) is a real wopper of a false datum.

                      Agreed that granting of beingness, whenever possible, is the most effective way to collect agreement and momentum, and no-sympathy (and similar flows) is the best way to collect and create opposing terminals.

                    • tone 41

                      Oh, I’m still listening! : ) And we are in agreement! Thanks.

                    • Hi tone 41 and Lunamoth,

                      I’m still listening too.

                      I get your points on the no sympathy stuff. I generally agree with that. The COS has taken that to a new level of absurdity. I will say however that IMHO that “tolerance” can also be brought to an absurd level. Judgment is always required and I think errors can be made in both directions. To be “tolerant” of of a rabble rouser can be counter productive and can be the least good for the greatest number. It is all a matter of viewpoint and personal experience I guess.

                      It is nice to communicate with real people though. People that are not totally fixed on their viewpoints.

                      Thanks for caring.


                    • Hi Alex,

                      I agree with everything you said here, especially about having real, unfixed people as terminals. 🙂

                  • Great reference Boyd!!



                  • Off topic a bit but I am LOLing big time! Not long after I left staff, I divorced my 1st husband (wanted to for 11 years but he was the GI maker) and dated a bit. One man I dated was Mr. Ego-man control freak. Long story short, I’m gonna have that “I believe you live more than one life” talk (2D basic rudiment) and he blows a gasket.
                    (I’d met a fantastic man somewhere in between who was just persistent as hell and would not take no for an answer, by the way.) Anyway, we’re headed to a college football game and Ego-maniacal man turns the car around and drives us back over an hour (berating me the whole while as I’m a captive audience) to my place and very dramatically declares he’s leaving and that is it! We’re through!
                    I had to stop from laughing, realized just how happy that made me but then how inappropriate it would be to bust out laughing in his face and say THANK FLIPPIN GAWD!
                    So, I sat there and thought of the tone scale and pretended to be wounded and grief-stricken and mustered up teary eyes (though I sadly could not produce a dripping tear) and watched him gather his things up and leave. I let a good hour go by to be sure he didn’t come back then I called that other man…
                    I’ve been married to him for 10 years now. ehhe =o)

                    Side note: I was emotionless when I left staff. I had suppressed my emotions so much, from age 21-33 that I really had to learn to experience what REAL life in my own valence was all about.

              • Boyd H,
                You leave me cold with “Family concerns DO NOT come first.” It is thinking like this that helped start this whole mess in the first place. I have no interest in joining with you or thinkers like you even though I am aligned with removing DM and the independent movement. Your dire situation sounds just like the crap we have to endure from the DM followers. The ends justify the means. They don’t.

                • I’m right with you, Flur.

                  The “deadly serious” argument turns me off completely. Played that game, no thanks.

                  Nobody is going to prioritize my dynamics for me again. I will not have the importance of my family marginalized to fit an agenda forced upon me as a requirement fo my membership in a group.

                  Now everybody lighten up, dammit.

                  • Goodnight Johnboy!

                  • lunamoth,
                    It seems to me that there are 8 dynamics and that if one is out, it will adversely affect the others. I read that somewhere. Hmmmmm…

                    Sure, each being may emphasize one or more, but to the exclusion of others, nah, that don’t work. Full responsibility for all efforts and counter-efforts on all dynamics. Reaching out, embracing life, that’s the only way through. I read that somewhere too, hmmmm… seems to make sense too.

                    • Makes sense to me, too.

                    • I’m sounding like a broken record, but the above
                      comm was supposed to go beneath Jim Logan’s post to me, far above, “It seems to me there are 8 dynamics…”

                    • martyrathbun09

                      lunamoth, there is a faint “reply” option on each post. It will appear under what you are responding to if you punch that “reply” option first.

                    • Thank, Marty, that’s what I used. Perhaps the problem comes from adding my post to an already long thread by hitting reply near the top of it (the first appearance of a “reply” option)?

                      The number of posts on your site for any given
                      day just continues to climb, so if that’s the problem I’ll learn to work around it! : )

                  • well put.

                  • Lunamoth and Flur:

                    Thanks, my sentiments exactly:

                    “The ‘deadly serious’ argument turns me off completely. Played that game, no thanks.

                    “Nobody is going to prioritize my dynamics for me again. I will not have the importance of my family marginalized to fit an agenda forced upon me as a requirement fo my membership in a group.”

              • boyd,
                I agree we need momentum and fence sitters are no good but I am not sure that we will get that momentum unless we really do follow the creed of scientology, which we are preaching and are committed to.

                • protectsource,
                  I’m not literally totally intollerant of fence sitters but my sentiment was intended to swing the pendulum.

                  • protectsource actually I’ve cleared my thoughts on this. There’s an expected comm lag when I first tell people about this site but if after a week or two they don’t budge after they know as much as I know then yeah they’re my enemy.
                    Lunamoth, you’re clever but don’t overplay. I don’t want to talk to you.

                    • Boyd,
                      Re lunamoth, settle down and on private messaging after a ‘settle down’ period, communicate until the incipient ridge here dissipates. Get this up to Tone 4 or I’ll find both of you and upside the head it is 🙂

                    • Allright Jimbo

                    • LOL!!

                    • Again, my post didn’t go where I expected it to go, so I’m not laughing at you, Sam, but at Jim Logan
                      tell Boyd and me that he’s gonna slap us upside the head!

                    • Boyd,

                      I understand.

                      The love and kisses part was not sarcastic. Sometimes it’s hard to communicate over a long-distance comm line. I appreciate you and
                      your contributions to this group.


                    • Lunamoth & Boyd (and those arguing the pros and cons of ‘fence-sitting’)

                      “…It is very easy to see that two in conflict are fighting. They are very visible. What is harder to see or suspect is that a third party existed and actively promoted the quarrel.
                      The usually unsuspected and “reasonable” third party, the bystander who denies any part of it, is the one that brought the conflict into existence in the first place…”

                      IMHO 2 cents found our buttons and tromped on them hard.

                      The Doubt Formula is very clear in terms of the steps to be taken in these trying circumstances and if one wants to ask the question ‘What would Ron do?’ I think the answer is clear when following the steps of that formula.

                      However, all three of my girls have been ATTACKED, RUTHLESSLY. I took precautions to ensure that they would be safe before taking a public stand, but even then, I underestimated the lengths that OSA (and the ‘Scientology Community’) would go to in attacking me via my children.

                      Anyone with children must take steps to ensure the safety of such. I am on constant damage control and my children have been hurt (which just makes me more angry and determined).

                      On the other side of the coin, I consider it my responsibility to protect my children by fighting suppression and ensuring that they will have the tech and the freedom to go up the Bridge themselves. It is their inheritance and their right.

                      Speaking up was a personal decision, not enforced, and one that was made armed with the ethics conditions. (I started way below Doubt by the way and on more than one dynamic).

                      And yet, it’s a serious mistake to underestimate children! My kids (and some of their friends) have surprised me in their own tenacity and determination to fight suppression for themselves and they are stronger for it.

                      Two cents
                      Plant or not. Suppressive reasonableness is unacceptable. If you have been around as long as you say you have you then you are no innocent. Therefore my own summation is that you are attempting to shake stable data and create conflict. If I ‘knew’ what you claim to know I would drag my kids away from the Sea Org kicking and screaming or otherwise because I love them enough to do that.

                    • PS
                      In my personal circle I know 6 independent Scientologists and 15 flying under the radar.
                      I personally wish I had some of those 15 standing next to me and deflecting some of the heat and attention off of me. However I appreciate and respect any help and support in what ever form it is given.
                      For any trained Scientologists who really want to take a stand but are suffering from ‘Hang-up at Doubt’ – you know the reference on that 😉

                    • martyrathbun09

                      Sam, Thanks for being a stable terminal. And your reference is right on the money.

                    • Sam you kick ass!!

                      What was your post in the Sea Org?

                      I’ll bet you were one hell of an ethics officer? Or if not you have an incredible grasp of the subject.


                    • Alex
                      KOT 😉

              • Hi Boyd,

                Good points.

                I don’t know if my2c is a clever OSA operative or not, but he could be. I spoke with an Org ED the other day and he was parroting off the same “company lines”. It is so weird how the COS now comes up with these “techniques” to get people to beleive in what they are doing. I have watched for years all the crazy bullshit and it has only gotten worse.

                Sure we can help the fence sitters but I don’t think we should baby them. This is a tough situation and if they can’t hang then get the f— out a here and go back to Mestology and play with them!! There will be more where that one came from.

                By the way I gave that ED an ear full and I think I impinged on him.


            • think yo overplayed the hand here, my2c.


            • This is from Sam; she asked I move it from where she posted it to here:
              Two Cents,
              eeeeeuuww! self-righteous martyrdom!
              Someone hand me a loofah!
              I need a shower after reading that!

          • “But I still OBSERVE some very good products being gotten out and IMHO when all is said and done there are many more good products coming from the C of S then from anywhere else.”

            You haven’t commented on THE problem,


            You can’t get around that. Specific examples of someone getting auditor trained are meaningless in light of the stats since 90′, right?

            With My2cents and Pedro Perrez and others, this is always the pattern.

            • Boyd H;

              You have the correct problem. If even someone believes that all is rosy at Int, SO members are treated well and the buildings are beautiful, it will not take away from the fact that the stats are crashed. That is the only two stats that matter:

              1. Trained auditors
              2. Satisfied preclears

              Every other stat is there to produce those two. That is the exchange we have with society and how our organizations should be funded. When you concentrate on those stats you do not have crossed cash/bills. I know this to be true because I have lived it.

              DM and upper management should be removed for crashing the stats.

          • Marty – Great Obs, I fully agree!

            There are pictures painted by the 2Cents artist about course rooms being full, great products from Mestology than anywhere else, SO having libs and vacations and being insouciant, totally done in fantasy mode.

            It did point out that the PDCs aren’t really basics correctly.

          • Good call Marty. His first post hit me in the gut. Thats why I questioned what more does he need to hear. Its a fine line to walk that you dont want to have the blog totally one sided and suppress other views on the issues, either yourself or by some of the others here. But at the same time these guys will water it all down and look for “balance”. And its bullshit. Good call. Dont be afraid to block anything you smell as a OSA PR move. The “open forum” should be available withing the Cof S. And thats the goal. I hope you have no reluctance to block any posts aimed at slowing momentum. When all views can be freely expressed in the C of S, then its a win. Until then, you have editorial authority and i hope you exercise it. The fact that havent to date shows its not something you would abuse. Dont let the enemy derail this train.

    • I was present with my stepkids and ex at LRHs memorial at the Pallidium. It was PACKED. People had been called literally in the middle of the night and told they MUST ATTEND.

      EVERYONE thought it was the release of OTVIII — my ex and I suspected it was either the death of LRH OR his arrest by the IRS.

      Before the talks — a requiem was playing. Loudly.

      I knew then — and said to my ex — LRH has died. This is a requiem. I think it was Mahler. My ex started to cry.

      (a grown man btw — (WH winks to Jason Beghe – WH btw is no guy)

      In any case, the vast majority of the public didn’t have a clue the significance of the music and when his death was announced — like FOOLS they all stood up and clapped.

      I think that was perhaps THE big day when I said — OMG — these lemmings are my friends?

      I don’t think so.

      Sure is a joy to find so many REAL Like minded friends here!!


    • I hate sitting through events. The last one I went to was probably the release of the Basics. I was not too happy with making some poor steno gal the big SP of all times. Yes, there is a lot of “waxing enthusiastic”. Yes, there are obvious abuses. Yes, I have major issues with the Church. I don’t all the “now you’re suppose to”. But I still OBSERVE some very good products being gotten out and IMHO when all is said and done there are many more good products coming from the C of S then from anywhere else.

      There’s also way too much BS, crap and silliness coming out of the C of S.

      I’m just not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      • TWO CENTS, that’s all that bothered you about the basics event?

      • my2¢ — One can’t help get a “good product” with any amount of truth intermingled in the bait, which is exactly what hs happened with the current Management. There is just enough truth and LRH in there to hook people. Then the rest of the miasma crap *suppressive* and illegal (definitely out ethics) stuff is tolerated.

        I would like to see the “good Products” *In the Society* Making a difference in their community. Shining examples.

        In all these years, only a handful of “celebrities” that have as much Ethics presence as Bozo the Clown? And in home town communities … Mi definition of a “product” is people shining, happy, winning bringing in 30 – 40 (at least) of their friends and everybody having a blast going up the Bridge. I’ve done it, I’ve seen it happen …. UNTIL

        things changed.

        As for throwing the baby out with the bathwater …. Locate the Baby. The Babdy is the TECH. The murky bathwater is all the Additives, with a capital A.

        Did you once, sitting through that event, ask yourself “Why is this petite creature standing between gold spray painted styrofoam columns yelling at us all in this auditorium that we didn’t get all the LRH we had previously read till now because the books have been all messed up for 50 years?”

      • my2c,

        Another way to look at this situation is you see all these out-points right? But you see the good too.

        Well, try talking about these out-points to some staff and try to get them handled. You see all the good going on, then why don’t you help to insure it will continue instead of being afraid to communicate.

        Then you will see the “benevolent” side of “management”. If you really care then you should be in comm witht them and see how they handle you. If they are not applying the DM tech then they will listen to you right? See what happens when you tell them you look at the internet and see if they think YOU are good.

        That is the true test. Does your group allow you to communicate?


      • my2c: For a little history of some folks at Flag in times past “talking about these out-points to some staff….to get them handled” as Alex said, check out this interview with the Barnes’. It’s the one which really got to me for when I was done watching, my exact thought was, “If this can be done to some public like them–being Flag OTs and all–it could happen to anyone. I could no long agree to being self-sacrificial to this group anymore after seeing this. Amazing interview.

      • Thought provoking


        Great documentation with the Barnes’! I hadn’t realized FLAG had gotten so bad.

      • You would be shocked at how flag handles their public. I know from first hand experience, which I won’t go into at this time.

        My reality on the 6 month checks for people on Solo Nots are twofold:

        1. Create a money stream for DM
        2. Create a black PR data base for DM for those OT’s who later don’t “comply”. similar to what J. Edgar Hoover did with the FBI.

        The out-tech this creates on people is obvious to anyone who has ever been on the Level and seen people on their sec checking, grinding away. It is out tech and creates tons of BPC.

        Witness the guy in Denver who was on the level and apparently murdered his employee and tried off himself. This is a sign of BPC.


      • Mickey! Thank you for posting this – I’d seen it a couple of months ago and wanted to show it to a friend (just recently out) but could not remember the couple’s name! Now I can send this…
        Thanks again!


  39. Why are her hands Photoshopped? Once you have seen them, you can’t look anywhere else in the ad.

  40. Marty,

    I agree that there is mostly a lack of insouciance in Orgs. I recall being told last year that graduations were now more “fun” which I thought was an odd comm. I have observed strained efforts to introduce a “Spirit of Play” into activities. I have observed a lot that I don’t like but I have also observed a lot of good in my two daughters who are both in SO for close to 15 years who do often display an insouciance. Of course that may be because when they are with me they are on libs!

    As more reliable sources that I know personally (such as a Debbie Cooke) come forward it will be easy to go public but I’m not there yet.

    One daughter went on vacation recently and I was very close to putting a copy of BFG in her suitcase but I’m not ready to create that “situation” for her yet.

    I can tell you that they are both aware that I’m not happy with management. In fact a couple weeks ago over dinner I said more than I should have to one of them.

    • My2Cents, Thanks. I bet you brought your daughters right on uptone. Remarkable that they get libs. If you are waiting for more reliable sources from staff to go public, you will likely wait in vain. Once Mike Rinder left, Miscavige started buying those with intimate knowledge at the gate. So, you are going to have to consult the Code of Honor, observe for yourself, and be your own adviser.

      • Marty,

        I am observing and applying the Code of Honor. I appreciate you granting me that beingness.

      • You’ve mentioned dm paying off those disaffected staff before. I’m wondering if he does with with installment payments; otherwise, what would keep someone from saying — yummy — thanks much for the dinero and I’m now going to use it to print my book, make my movie, tell the world about YOU.

        So — I’m guessing its installments.

        Fair enough. Possibly once they have gotten their own feet on the ground — even though done with blood money – they’ll separate from dm and the money and come forward.

        Not ALL — but some.

        That’s my hope/prayer/postulate for my friends who have left but aren’t coming forward yet.


    • my2c,

      That you have two daughters in the Sea Org and it is hard to confront handling that is duplicated.

      Just think if you don’t tell them what is going on and they become a scapegoat or something, how would tht make you feel if you had the data but never gave it to them?

      Just a thought.


      • Alex,

        As a mother, I’m pretty sure that My2c has already considered that.

        As a matter of fact, after finding out what is really going on, people with children inside the church IMMEDIATELY think of their kids and all the possible ramifications of telling/not telling.

        How this is handled is a personal choice and has to be the result of the individual constantly assessing the changing scene and weighing the new implications to his/her dynamics, especially the effects on the child and the child’s dynamics.

        I’m grateful that here I’ve been granted the right to make that decision for myself, and I certainly extend that same consideration to others.

      • Hi Lunamoth,

        Good points. I really wasn’t trying to “enforce” an idea on him but was just throwing one out.

        To me, it starts to bug me a bit when people “see” the out-points but do not do anything about them. When Marty and all the others that are stepping up at personal risk and for some to be spectating is a bit annoying.

        Just as they have the right to communicate their own Q&A, I feel that I have the right to get them to look at the other side of the coin.

        It is ok to be a spectator for awhile I guess.


      • I know what you mean about seeing the outpoints but doing nothing about them. That’s actually one of the hardest things about feeling constrained by family ties (actually, any theta comm line). One may feel (at first) unable to act, and one really wants to.

        But don’t make the assumption that those who
        are not “out” aren’t doing anything : ) A trained scientologist isn’t going to allow themselves to stay in such a PTS situation, especially once they realize in which direction freedom actually lies.

        I can’t speak for My2c, of course. Just speaking for myself.

    • Spirit of Play in current organizations …
      I’m all for the Joy of Creation but when an organization’s Management can’t conceive of Spirit of Play much higher than Nintendo, it sort of can’t help but trickle down and affect staff, operations, and public — not to mention Policy.

  41. I’ve heard this lecture too long ago and have had a heckuva’ time finding it again. It was a really good lecture. 🙂

    • Yeah, one of my favorites of all time. Think it was in D.C. in early sixties (not State of Man). If someone finds it I’ll be indebted to you.

  42. Marty
    Spirit of Play is from PDC Lecture #26 (FLOWS: CHARACTERISTICS OF)
    And I got one word to say to you…
    GOOGLE! 🙂
    I knew it was from PDC but didn’t know which one so credit to ‘Blue Spirit’ on ESMB where I found it.

  43. My 2cents. I have family members on the inside too.

    But I’ve been up lines for 10 years and I’ve seen firsthand things described on this post. What you don’t understand, what you will NEVER duplicate are exactly how one feels when one is picked out of a crowd of 500 people in a meeting and told one is a criminal, and when one is too nervous to speak – people with stage fright, you’ve never felt stage fright like this! Getting screamed at by a crowd that’s been frenzied into psychotic rage, then escorted to the lake at night and felt the cold sweat – you then think, I really am a piece of shit and don’t care when you feel the cold water…

    Reform? Gimme a break! I dig you have kids in, but we are the reform.

  44. 9 December 1952, FLOWS: CHARACTERISTICS OF

    That may be the reference on – I cannot verify because I do not have the lectures at hand.

  45. I posted this on another thread 2c but seeing as we’re having this comm cycle here, I’m putting it here, too. I understand your dilemma with CoS, and it’s one I had, too, but reasonableness isn’t the answer. The solution can’t be waiting for DM to come to his senses and resign.

    He’s done a clever and expert job of A=A’ing us into believing that he IS the Church of Scientology, therefore any attack on him is an attack on the countless good beings in the church as well as LRH and Scn itself.

    And, yes, there have been good things done over the past 30 years because there are good theta beings in the CoS.

    Beyond that, I’d say that Mussolini got the trains to run on time and ensured “order” in Italian society. And he and his black shirts “protected” the people from Italy’s many enemies in a very dangerous world. The only price to pay for this protection was the removal of a few freedoms here and there and turning a blind eye to some criminal behavior (all done for the good of the state, of course); in all, a small price to pay for security, no?

    Not so small, it turned out.

    So when I think of the many advances which have occurred on DM’s watch, I think that a coffin lined with velvet is still a coffin.

  46. BIC = Building Investment Committee. LRH set it up so that Sea Org Reserves (the members)would invest in upstat orgs, securing their future by buying a building for them in prime locations. You could CSW the committee too
    but you’d better be able to prove that you were worth the investment (viable and expanding). Sea Org reserves were used, NOT public donations and no expensive renos or furniture would be paid for.

    Historically it went in spurts, sometimes LRH would order a series of building investments made for orgs.

    Many of the orgs excellently located today were LRH BIC orgs, chosen based on strict adherence to BIC checklists. But that all seems to have been thrown out the window by DM. I drove by the “great” Tamps org recently. It’s on a side street in a residential district. Are you kidding me?

  47. Poor Wensey.

    I can clearly recall joining staff 30 years ago and thinking it was going to be a good thing, maybe I even looked a little like Wensey. Of course it was the worst decision of my life, but I don’t have to convince this group of that.

    If she actually feels insouciance now it won’t last long.

    I feel bad for what’s ahead for her, but I wish her all the best.

    Run Wensey, run.

  48. On this Ideal Org / new buildings sub-thread emerging here, I have a couple of questions – hoping that they haven’t already been addressed and, if not, that somebody here will know:

    1. Does the church go through real estate brokers and pay a brokerage commission when it purchases buildings?

    2. These days when the church buys real estate, does it do so using loans / mortgages?

    If the answers are yes, who would benefit in the form of commissions and how might those commissions be shared? (The above questions don’t address issues like who owned these properties earlier and to whom any old church buildings are sold.)

    I raise these issues because “other people’s money” is an old, old game that has been played time and time again by a reprehensible but familiar type of Scientologist (think the Snopeses of Faulkner’s Yoknapatawpha County). Real estate is often the equity engine (and one of the smoke screens) that runs the game.

    In my life I’ve learned there are at least two (and probably more) kinds of “crazy” (as in this doesn’t make any sense to me at all): (1) those things that really don’t make any sense and will suck the marrow from your bones if you continue to try to unravel it and (2) those things that really do make sense, but just not from the POV you’re holding and the rules by which you’re trying to untangle the mystery.

  49. I suppose you need to be harsh, Marty, given the cloak and dagger game you’re in. I came to the same conclusion as you about 2cents – despite the apparent allegiance, the “reasonableness” advocated would serve to merely keep the status quo – but the difference between us is that I’m hoping that I was wrong and you are sure you’re not.

    I’ve got a lot of track as Huckleberry The Merciful, which more often than not has meant that I’ve been betrayed by those I trusted. And yet every time it happens, I’m surprised. Weird, eh?

    I’ve a feeling it won’t happen to Rathbun The Ruthless.

    One other thing I’ve been meaning to ask: Who is the Third Party in all of this?

    Because there is one.

    From The Third Party Law:

    “The usually unsuspected and “reasonable” third party, the bystander who denies any part of it, is the one that brought the conflict into existence in the first place.

    The hidden third party, seeming at times to be a supporter of only one side, is to be found as the instigator.”

    • Huck, the 3P is OSA. They are running an op straight out of COINTELPRO. It was done with Mayo, LMT, and every other “group” that ever arose outside their control. The game is to put all sorts of “hidden third parties” into the fringes of groups and use whatever clever shifts they can to start quarrels. I don’t consider my self as ruthless as I am unreasonable. If I Q and A’d with my knowingness on two or three key occasions in the past year, we wouldn’t be conversing right now.

      • True about the unreasonableness and that you’ve had to keep pedalling in order to move on up a little higher. This is what I meant by Rathbun The Ruthless and why, guilty of being an OSA mole or not, 2cents will by necessity become collateral damage.

        You are not wrong but it does take a certain constitution to keep your eye on the prize and refuse to be slowed by arguments of reasonableness.

        Especially when dealing with an unreasonable foe.

        You know better than I OSA’s SOP. It makes sense if the goal is to marginalize dissidents and blunt their effectiveness.

        But I still wonder who the 3p is in the bigger game: CoS against Independents. Or, in microcosm, Marty Rathbun against David Miscavige.

        Who stands to gain by Scientology tearing at itself?

      • Huck,
        The 3P is OSA. Who runs OSA answers who is behind the tear up of the CofS. Who are the independents and how did they get here has the same answer, aside from individual whys for each person. There comes a point on the list where the needle goes loose, the item is found. Go past it, the needle packs up. As Marty has covered, the 3P at this point is OSA and behind them, well Der Manipulator.

  50. Marty, from you last comment to my2cents it sounds like you are under a bit of pressure. There is plenty I’m sure you have not told. I look forward to the next chapter in the unfolding…. playing out as we write…. story. This blog qualifies in ny book as a group process.

    I had to do a double take… more like a triple take… when I read the blog. A discussion as to who is really insouciant??? I barely saw the headline “insousiant” in the ad. I just saw a pretty woman smiling that I wouldn’t mind running into. That part of the ad worked on me.

    My friend Bashar the channeled ET has a response to assertions that aren’t aligned with who he is. He replies, “IF YOU SAY SO.” He also has said that if you really know something you don’t have to prove it to anyone else…. the greatest power is the lightest touch. I highly recommend him as a model of insouciance.

    What I learned about journalism is tell the story and let the audience make up their own mind. For me using that ad to make a point didn’t do it. However, it did evoke an interesting discussion, so the process must be working.

  51. Alexis de Tocqueville

    Add’l two-cents.

    Wensy will likely not be quite so cheerful — or insouciant — when someone other than me notices the missing base mouldings and the ratty carpet frays in the photo and orders the place gutted and ‘poshed up’ to the tune of 500 Grand. Oddly enough, despite the evolution to make the CL V orgs look like hedge fund managers’ second homes, it sure looks like the same old Las Vegas org I was at 15 years ago for a visit.

    More, I read a comment posted above where the Day ED, Mary Gay, had been kicked to the curb and replaced. That sucks. Mary was the kind of tough old gal that a town the likes of LV needs. Heck, she’s turned me on to The Gambler bulletin when I toured there. She was the best of caring, tough and smart.

    Maybe she’ll read your blog some day, Marty.

  52. Marty — I get your point re: my 2¢ — I write about the LRH memorial and how awful it was —

    He answers about all events and how he doesn’t like them.

    Can ANY event ever be compared to hearing that LRH was no longer amongst us. My ex went into a tremendous period of sadness (he was well audited mind you and on OV VII) …

    Also I just cogged how this troll thing works — and the 3P op of OSA and how damaging the marginalization of the various groups no longer IN lock step is.

    In the outside world, there are people who are not happy with Genetically Modified Food, OR with income taxes, or with micro-chipping, or with other things of this ilk. IE – anything that isn’t part of mainstream media. They might not agree with each other on these various things however.

    All these groups are marginalized — pointed out how NUTS they are — so IF you should mention that you don’t like GMO foods — OMG you are immediately targeted as a radical, or a tree hugger or whatever.

    ITS VERY VERY hard to get truth OUT without some vested interest pointing out how that very truth is a lie and YOU are suspect now.

    No one said it would be easy. I just keep hopin’ though.


    • WH, you are very wise. That is why NOTHING is spent on disseminating Scientology to people for decades, and the moment DM’s tit gets caught in a ringer (Mid May 09 when SP Times asked him to answer up), he spends tens of millions making Scientology PR (Public Relations and NOT dissemination) omnipresent.

      • My observation is that this “pr” piece was intended for us, and not for the demographic most will assumed it is for. I frankly doubt that the word “insouciant” connects at an emotional level with many of the 18-24 year-olds likely to join staff for the first time.

        As a wise person once said to me, dm doesn’t plan, he reacts. Every time Marty’s blog hits a nerve you see a knee-jerk reaction from the little guy in short pants. Hackers. Trolls. “Edgy” new promo. Please.

        Already so predictable.

  53. iThoughtful: New Article: The Hidden Standard – Suppression Exposed
    What a well written article! My God, having been in Marketing before Scientology when the norm was not selling any longer, the same was repackaged and sold again only wrapped differently. I am so thankful I spotted this and chose not to continue. I hope this blows as much charge for others as it did for me.

  54. Here’s another 2 cents gem:

    “All this was pre DM so in my opinion the “good old days” are a myth.

    “Post DM” I’ve had many wins in both training and auditing. I have two daughters in SO who are incredibly able and theta. They’ve been in SO for 15 years.

    Sorry if this doesn’t fit the narrative.”

    Straight out of the playbook. It’s either

    – being extra nice and not contributing anything with substance until you’ve gained support; then posting some cheap shots, or

    – Boasting about how you’re a free thinker and don’t fit into the rigidness of the forum. Yeah right, as if. There’s plenty of room for different opinions here but if you’re asked to explain why you support a verified stat crasher and you don’t answer up and instead flake out or blow that’s a different story.

    I’m sick of these two tactics. Also another line is “Don’t turn this into a witch hunt.” Please…. everytime someone’s taken a bag off someone’s head it’s been one of DM’s DBs underneath defending the stat crashing and lack of auditors. No one’s misfired in months and if so they quickly apologized.

    • Brilliant!!! “Don’t turn this into a witch hunt”

      I remember when I first left the SO — and was out in the real world finding my way. If I disagreed with someone, they would say — you are just not open minded (meaning no longer a free thinker but “brainwashed”) that’s why you won’t try — x y or z.

      So in order to PROVE that I wasn’t brainwashed I would try x, y, or z.

      To my peril.

      So — trying to disprove a negative is in TWO words:
      im possible (to quote Samuel Goldwyn of Hollywood fame)


  55. 1. Huckleberry said: Who stands to gain by Scientology tearing at itself? This is easy. DM and his favored people – it doesn’t matter if Scn wins or loses, just so THERE IS A WAR – so you keep things nice and confused and people NEED TO GIVE MONEY TO THE WAR CHEST, which of course only one person decides how to spend that.
    2. BIC was Building Investment Committee like Fisher said. It was very well organized and had several very long checklists that were required for an org to be approved to get a building. The missionaires doing the inspections for potential properties had to get photos, provide body traffic count (had to be a busy body-traffic area) and all sorts of data, as well as physical inspection of building itself. The key policy was HCOPL Building Fund Account, and the checklists were made around that policy. No building would be purchased in any other way.
    Nowadays, this thing they are doing with “Ideal Orgs” is completely counter to the Building Fund Account policy.
    It looks like a new DM “policy” to make fancy quarters so people will donate money and so celebrities do not have to feel embarrassed sending people in, i.e. the Church of Mestolology, where you attract people with MEST and not THETA.
    I cannot believe that the COS could possibly pass a proper audit of all the money these days. Last IRS audit was????? Anybody know?

  56. Serious Fellow Traveller

    All this insouciant comm has me all serious. So,

    From the Milestone One Lectures

    Fair use quote: “How serious is it that you live? Well, if you’re going to die, it becomes very serious that you live – becomes serious business. And a person, actually, is situated on the Tone Scale to the degree that they are serious about living. They are also effective in inverse ratio to their seriousness. You can show me any person who is taking it very, very, very seriously and I’ll show you a long chain of failures. A person gets most serious about living when he is dying.

    Now, an index of sanity is not only a future index but a “serious” index – the serious button.”

    Ok. So I better get really g.d d..n serious about getting my f…ing personal integrity in and making sure it stays in.

    Where does that start? It starts with Personal Integrity: (fair use quote)
    “If what we really observed was what we observed, That we took care to observe what we were observing, That we always observed to observe.”

    OMG. I am now serious about observing! Well, just what do I observe with the CoM? And what am I observing? Well I observed, read, some of their publications (Freedom Mags and such), the church pubs, *not* LRH works, they read and look really really good. Cool, theta. Uh oh. I need to take care to observe what I am observing. Well that throws a monkey wrench into it. I am looking at claims, not actual stats and products. And no substantiation for the claims. Oh that is a bother for such serious observation.

    Well, ok. This being so serious and all, I better observe some more. Can’t observe too much, can I? I need to make sure all my bases are covered so to speak. Afer all it would be pretty serious to not have covered them all. So I observed some church terminals dealing with the media. It seems the church has a serious problem with people leaving and speaking to the media. So there is a church terminal seriously trying to handle this. And what did I observe. Pretty serious out KSW, that is what I observed.

    But this being the serious task and all, I did not stop there. It would be way too serious to do so. I got in comm with some of the terminals associated with this blog. I asked my serious, direct questions. I persisted to get my answer. (And for those of you on the receiving end, I do take some serious f…ing responsibility for the way those went at least initially). What did I observe while taking care to observe? This is one seriously bad assed bunch of take no prisoners, don’t dwell on the past shit, let’s get this job scoped out and done, fun loving crew. And those are the low toned ones.

    Oh. These are the insouciant people I was expecting to find in the church. They may not all consider themselves as scientologists, but I am seriously not quibbling about that point.

    This is about the truth. Another fair use quote:
    “WHAT IS TRUE FOR YOU is what you have observed yourself And when you lose that you have lost everything.”

    Everything? Did he say everything? OMFG this IS serious!

    • Theo Sismanides

      Well Serious Fellow Traveller, thanks! Haven’t seen you posting before. Anyway, welcome to the unserious… hahaha

  57. Marty

    I don’t know why, but each time I hit “reply” to a specific comment to do so, my reply still goes to the bottom of the thread, which makes it non-sequitar to the one it is now below. ?

  58. It pisses me off that Alex gets on his high horse and tells others to stop being spectators even though they have hostages when he has no family to lose whatsoever.

    • M6,

      How do you know I don’t have any family to lose whatsoever?

      Everyone in this game stands to lose things. We all have our crosses to bear. To me a fence sitter or spectator is one who sees all the out-points and does nothing about it at all. They don’t necessarily have to “come out” but DO something. If they just Q&A endlessly then they have other issues that need to be handled in my opinion.

      Try not to take it so personally.

      And I like my high horse, he is real cool. I got sick of having a monkey on my back and now I ride high again and it is awesome!!


    • Mockingbird you have EVERYTHING to lose. You don’t see the stakes maybe?

  59. @CatDaddy:

    Yeah LV fits his personality. And actually while I am thinking of it. Anyone read The Stand by Stephen King? Now that we’re on the subject of DM and LV.

    • The Stand is my favorit book. I red it when I was 11 and red it again because in the first editiomn they edited 400 pages out to cut it down to 600. I am glad I red it in the 1000 pages form too. I red many a book of Stephen King when I was 11/12

  60. I wander who the idiot is who decided to take a picture of a girl gesturing “whatever” with a gleefull look in her eye to represent the COS. As a public that’s where I must to go to go free? Did anyone there take any sort of marketing classes. Because that promo does not instill confidence in the brand!! Thr COS just kicks themselves over & over & over. When will they learn?

  61. Revenimus ~

    Good post. Good description.
    The psychotic rage of Miscavige in front of 500 others creating a frenzied mob was surreal and out of Hollywood casting ~~~

    Marc Headley might want the likes of you and me if they make a movie out of his book “Blown For Good”
    to verify the madness of these repeated explosions and the theatrical drama of it all.

    Readers here may not realize that the earlier punishments ~ James Byrne ~~ putting in “SO etiquette” were throwing SO members into the COLD lakes some 150 yards from Building 36. This lake was so bad, you could smell the death in the lake from 100 yards away.Dead birds, dead fish, advanced bacteria, rotting debris and so on. Only when SO members got very very sick, did the punishments move from this lake to overboards (even late at night) into the COLD swimming pool.

    • WnP,
      This chuck ’em in that skanky lake thing started after the flood. Remember? It was Byrne and Wilhere with the Reality factor to the assembled Gold crew that during the lower conditions if one was late for a muster it was lake time and then it was ‘instant RPF’.

      One morning I was sleeping out at the apartments. Annie got home from being up all night and woke me up. I’d missed the bus and it was 8:40 a.m. YIKES! I leapt out of bed, fairly postulated my clothes on, kissed her quickly and ran as fast as I could to my Suzuki 1100 motorcyle. I flew down that road past the turkey farm, past the watermelon field and got to the red light on the cross road. Looked at the little duckies in the pond in the ditch and was freakin’ out at the red light not changing. I almost ran it! Anyway, it finally changed and bam, full rolled on throttle up to almost 110 mph down to Highway 79, slide into the turn, only just avoiding scraping the knee out my white pants, and screamed down to the main booth, down the hill and screeech the brakes. Hopped off and just as I got to the back of the line of my Dept ‘THAT’S IT’ and roll call.

      I never did go in that lake. I didn’t go in the RPF again. I did get illegally removed from post and eventually declared by DM. But, I’ve got a new old bike, a ‘rat bike’, GL 1200 stripped down and still drive pretty fast, but not so much.

      • MOQ, thanks for sharing that one!

      • Jim Logan ~~

        I loved that description……whew….ohh the memories. You take me down memory lane~~

        James Byrne got purged after being a Golden Boy.
        Snake Greg Wilhere goes in and out of the severe SRAs.

        He was busted from IG post for lying in his worksheets while auditing John Travolta.

        A lying IG Tut Tut

        • W and P, not true on Greg. The mission with Byrne was his “do or die” after being busted from IG for causing an embarrassment to DM concerning Cruise. That is a chapter in itself.

  62. Boyd, First you say “I’m at war with all fence sitters at this point. Family concerns DO NOT come first. This is the most dire situation on your whole track compounded by the fact that we need momentum right now and we won’t get another chance,” which sounds just like an IAS Reg (and yes, I hope you are insulted.) Then you say, “I’m not literally totally intolerant of fence sitters “. Sure sounded literal to me.

  63. “The “deadly serious” argument turns me off completely. Played that game, no thanks. ”

    What does that mean though? You can have fun being serious as long as the game isn’t playing you, football players don’t smile much in the game but they can have fun. Actually real fun for me is any big adventure with danger and drama as part of it, but it would be a mix with insoucience included at times.

    Do you disagree that Scientology’s expansion is deadly serious? So you don’t believe in multiple lives or the compounding nature of engrams or that this is our only chance to turn things around or something? Because that’s what I see from what you wrote lunamoth. I believe this is deadly deadly deadly deadly serious. Dire Dire Dire Deadly Deadly serious, and our highest imaginings of the importance are a 100x under-estimate. And OSA plants are theetie weetie but some of them are evil, don’t you agree?

    It’s just you keep coming after me so I’m asking you some stuff now too, I want to clear this up and be done with it. I like your emotional wattage in some past posts but we need to find out where we differ, you’re coming at me every other day now.

    • Sounds like My2c has successfully stirred your pot, Boyd. I can see you’re feeling attacked. Not my intention, but you can’t expect to make statements that invalidate others in this group without creating an effect, especially if they’re not afraid to speak their mind, too. I know you value that quality in your friends; so do I.

      I consider you one of the good guys, so I’m not even going to answer the emotional attacks contained in this email.

      And thank you for complimenting my “emotional wattage.” That’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me.

      love and kisses


  64. Everyone,

    I think it makes us a little bit like the C of M when we see trolls and plants too easily.

    Maybe you all know something that I don’t and My2Cents really is a troll, but I don’t think so. Remember that anyone who’s been a member of the church for 33 years has been given a lot of “implants,” for want of a better word. All that false data comes off in layers. There would have been a time when I might have been saying things similar to what My2Cents has been saying, and I’ve certainly never been a DM troll. I did, however, tow the party line, as I think most of us did at one time, and I didn’t go from towing the party line to thinking 100% independently overnight.

    One thing that differentiates us from those inside DM’s “church” is that we use Scientology basics, including ARC and the comm cycle. We don’t think those can be thrown away when the end justifies the means. If I think it’s adequately demonstrated that someone is a troll, I’ll be the first to jump on him of her (as I have on SnowWhite and others). Until then, I can allow that a member of the C of M has a lot of PTSness and a lot of false data, and that doesn’t all get peeled off at once with one big cognition.

    We have every reason to be ever vigilant. But I think it’s always better to err on the side of tolerance and ARC.

    The C of M is all about public lynchings of anyone who doesn’t agree with prescription thought. Of course, on the other side we don’t want to fail to spot and handle those who really are here to disrupt because we don’t want to allow them to disrupt. But to me the greater liability is to use antagonism and ridicule and to assign bad intentions to someone who is not ill intentioned, but is just loaded with false data. Such a person can be helped, with patience and reason. My sense is that My2Cents has been able to peel of some of his false data. He might not be working through it fast enough for our taste, but it looks to me like he’s trying.

    The intolerance and make wrong in DM’s church is something I never want to emulate, as I’m sure none of us do. I think that’s pretty important to the beingness of our movement.


    • Tone 41. “Public Lynching”? Please. You are playing RIGHT into the hands of an INTELLIGENCE op OSA has been running for months. Send in, disrupt, very subtly of course so as to stay in as long as possible, then when Marty or Steve outs you, scream bloody murder “they are paranoid, injust and ruthless.” In other words, position us as being just like you know who. How do I know that? Multiple view point system (for every comment on this board I get three emails or calls) and 22 years of experience in the subject they are practicing, they are mis-applying I should add. It just so happens that the rejection of the bloke yesterday had very little to do with his differring viewpoint (that he would continually TR3 after refusing to answer the question at hand by the way). That was simply the first indicator. No, it was something else he was trying to interject (which when combined with email messages he sent simultaneously – and others sent in tandem, were very clearly intended to a) set me up for a hard spill, and b) prevent some very important truths from ever seeing the light of day. Sorry, I cannot elaborate at the moment. But, it will become very clear when it all rolls out, assuming I can navigate the mine field they’ve set up. With waves of intel ops being directed this way, staying above water is like playing three D chess. As LRH said sometimes being the target of such things can become “just too thick.” How about you afford me a little of that “tolerance” you are quick to preach we give to DM’s intel agents? I am sticking my neck out. The fellow you defend, who by the way was a Br 1 Bu 1 GO veteran (RJ and others can tell you the significance of that), is not.

      • B1 your dealing with the old intel/info bureau of the GO. Some of these guys have either been trained by the best or are FIOs themselves.

        In other words they know the “trade” quite well.

        “My 2 cents” may be what is called a “dangle”:

        (begin fair use)
        DANGLE. An operational term applied to an agent who is deliberately deployed close to a target hostile intelligence officer in the expectation that he or she will be the subject of recruitment, thereby allowinga double agent case to develop. This procedure is also known as “coat-trailing” and was a tactic often used during the Cold War.

        (end fair use)

        Historical Dictionary of International Intelligence

        Nigel West

        Possible, because “My 2 cents” is very coy and seems to require a lot of “convincing” about something that is all too obvious or should be with all the available intel.

        Though, I could be wrong.

        I do agree with A41, we shouldn’t go totally paranoid, like the late James Jesus Angleton former CIA Counter Intel Chief and get lost in a “wilderness of mirrors”.

        However, what “Two cents” has posted so far hasn’t instilled any confidence in me that he or she isn’t a really “double agent” playing a potential “defector”.

        One things for sure if Miscavige and whoever may be controlling him is sending in “former” GO then the situation must be getting desperate, which means you are doing an excellent job Marty.

        I suggest that anyone who doesn’t want to get played on this board read the HCOPL ‘Counter Espionage’ and the book by Christopher Felix real name James McCargar ‘A Short Course in the Secret War’, B1’s operating bible.

      • Marty,

        Comminicating a viewpoint isn’t the same as preaching, and my intention was not to defend the dude, as I think should have beeen clear from my email. The only person I’ve explicitly defended on this blog is you, and I’ve done that a number of times and in no uncertain terms. So you should have no question where I’m coming from.

        If you have info I don’t have and you *know* he’s an OSA agent, then fine. I havent’ seen those emails and I don’t have all the data you referred to.

      • Thanks for doing what you do Marty!!

        I find it hard just to play regular chess, and then if you have people looking over your shoulder second guessing you ….wow!! That must be a pain in the ass.

        Keep up the great work, you are a true leader!


  65. Theo Sismanides

    This is a misleading advertisment. It’s been done by all those who lie in an effort to sell something big time when it ain’t what it is.

    R (Reality) is the basis of PR, so this ad violates the basics of PR since it aint’ true. Staff aren’t insouciant at all, they don’t even earn any money and they cannot be cause over MEST. Insouciance takes much more than just following orders.

  66. A little perhaps unknown fact:

    Mary Sue loved astrology. In fact Diana, who learned from my then SO husband, that I could read palms – asked me to read hers. OMG — right there at her desk in front of all the aides. I demurred.

    LRH himself wrote in a private letter about his fascination with numerology. I read this letter, circa 1949 in Virgil Wilhite’s collection of personal private correspondence that he had.

    MY POINT? — for kicks or a healthy dose of INSOUCIANT curiosity go to: and order your own sign. (BTW I’m NOT connecting in any way to Eric – just an admirer – no kickbacks!!)

    I was astonished to read my report for this year. All about stepping in to a NEW way to bring humanity together.

    WOW — does he read this blog? How prescient!!


  67. My English is not so good, so I thought this promo is just a fake, a joke…
    Now, read the comments and begin to think this is real…
    This just makes no sense to me.
    How the word “insouciance” (casual lack of concern) meets the word “responsibility” in any way…
    This promo must be a joke…
    Regarding above a discussion on Fair Game policy and that it has been canceled, I just have a thought that ROn said, there is no hidden data line. That’s OK but there are Flag Orders for example. These are actually hidden (administrative) data lines for the public, as many I’m sure do not even think that kind of orders exists. So, imo there can be many levels of policies we do not have a clue about…

    • OD

      This is something that has always bothered me; I know the policy concerning Hidden Data Lines (as in, there aren’t any), and yet the group that governs the entire church is run on secret policy.

      I was once told, verbally, by a CCI staff, that a certain (public) individual was a “d.b.” because he was EX sea org. I rejected this out of hand; I knew and admired many individuals who had at one time been in the s.o. But when I asked this person to show me the reference, she said she would (several times) but never did. I was told later by a friend that it’s an s.o.-only ref.

      How is one to have confidence in or feel any trust for one’s government when it’s clear that there is NO transparancy? It goes for the government of my church as well as that of my country.

  68. Underground For Now

    I love the smell of “INDENPENDENT” posts in the morning.

  69. Boyd,
    Thanks for the clarification. What is your new mission and purpose in life? What is it you are trying to accomplish?

  70. Lunamoth,

    Very well stated. Creating opposing terminals and ridges is a waste of time & energy. I appreciate invitations to look and As-Is.

  71. Oh — one more thing.

    I’ve never been particularly good about spotting tone levels. Other than anger 🙂

    IF someone says to me – this and that. I believe them.

    My ex however, has always been a master at 1) spotting tone levels 2) seeing how someone is deflecting attention 3) having the courage to say so and stand up

    For example, as Int management started to change after LRHs death the six month checks at Flag would include asking about disagreements with Int Exec.

    I would just — err — lie — I never WANTED TO STICK MY NECK OUT —

    My ex would say what he felt. Somehow at THAT time we didn’t get ousted off the base.

    Br1 Bu1 GO was BTW the GO Stasi Arm — ie — reporting on INTERNAL affairs within the church and getting rid of dissidents. (if I recall properly)

    I appreciate the instant hatting we are receiving right here on this blog about OSA operatives. I appreciate that I am not the one with my neck on the line.

    I appreciate that the pressure must be intense and I for one never hope I have to learn to play 3D chess.

    Hell — I can’t play chess — at 9 years old, I taught my 5 year old brother how to play. He beat me. I’ve never played since.

    Thanks Marty. And Mosey


  72. Having gone back and read 2cents’ posts, what strikes me is that he was setting up Marty for a loss if Marty could not deliver Debbie Cook to the Independents.

    The numerous mentions of Debbie and positioning her as the key to the whole enchilada is SOP for setting up a fail, especially if you know Debbie – for whatever reason, and that includes blackmail and intimidation – is not going to jump DM’s ship.

    • Huckleberry, you are a wise man masquerading as a riverboat adventurer.

      • The wiser I need to be, the wiser I am. So it seems you’re making me wiser.

        Twain said of his seminal novel that “a sound heart and a deformed conscience come into collision and conscience suffers defeat.”

        Interesting how life mimmicks art imitating life.

        The sad part in this sorry episode is that I’m now quite sure Debbie Cook’s not going to turn against DM.

      • Ah, yes, it’s all so clear now that it’s over and you
        guys have explained it all to me in great detail…

        Jeezus, I’m naive. I didn’t start to suspect until after Marty said something about it and My2c made that stupid remark about having been suspected of being a GO plant when he “blew” in the ’80’s.

        Well, I guess I’m drilling “spotting trolls,” and it seems I’ve got a good teacher.

    • It also seems to me that the whole thing was about Debbie Cook. Only I have the idea they were trying to flush Debbie out, that is, force Marty to say whether he’s been in comm with her. In other words, the whole thing was trying to get something on Debbie.

      • If that was the purpose it would’ve been done much more quietly, beebercat.

        I think they think they’ve secured Debbie and therefore if they push the line that the entire Independent movement depends upon Debbie Cook joining, the loss would be tremendous if she doesn’t, especially if DM trots her out to denounce Marty.

        By hook or by crook they think they have her secured, so they know the outcome should we allow the goalposts to be so positioned.

        The correct viewpoint is that Debbie Cook’s a powerhouse thetan and suffered greatly at the hands of DM but ultimately, she’s one of many.

    • Debbie Cook was a powerhouse and was an OL for me and others at one time, but the truth of the matter is that she fell into lower conditions and contributed to the motion that DM created.

      She has yet to earn her stripes outside the church and should be given no more credence than any other Ex-SO member until she has shown that she is equal to the task of being independent.

      According to reports published on this blog, she is still connected to people who are close to DM. If she is still under the influence of Benetta Slaughter, she is PTS and may still be in the valence of a DM follower.

      In one way or another we all have overts of omission or commission that contributed to the present failed state of Scientology.

      What counts now is what are we doing to make things go right and to make up the damage done by the church while we were a part of it.

      If we take a former Scn celebrity (SO, Staff, or Public) and do any more than welcome them warmly, we are validating a non-existent stat. By all means give them a welcome and make them feel at home, but do not place any credence in them based on distant history.

      Give them a chance to contribute and see what they produce. These people have gone through hell and need to put themselves back together and show that they have truly moved up through the conditions before they can be considered opinion leaders of the independent field.

      Advisors, yes, if the advice is useful to the field, but most will need to do an extensive Non-E formula before they understand the field and what is needed and wanted.

      If Debbie is working through Non-E, I think our expectations will be met.

  73. Marty,

    The “Insouciance” quote comes from a larger article where LRH talks about the Spirit of Play. Somebody showed it to me in the Flag bookstore in 1982, and I believe it was in a Tech Volume. Sometime that year somebody else handed me a single piece of paper published by the church with what I think is the whole article by LRH. I saved it for all these years because it is one of my favorite LRH references. I looked in the current Tech Vols but couldn’t find it. I am posting it here for all to enjoy.

    THE SPIRIT OF PLAY by L. Ron Hubbard

    Nobody could possibly be serious and win in this universe. The more serious a person gets (and 1.5 is real serious) the more they have to do things by flows, and the more they have to agree and the more they have to follow the rules, and the more broken the piece becomes.

    This universe starts surrendering to a Spirit of Play. And one of the Spirits of Play is “Let’s pretend”.

    Really the most valuable thing that a thetan possesses is his spirit of play. This is a sensation of play and is not just energy. It’s a tremendous sensation.

    A guy has practically lost it if he’s here on Earth at all. He’s depending on all sorts of the soggiest, low scale emotions imaginable in order to get any sensation. In substitute for what? Spirit of Play. For instance, sex is about eighth-rate as an emotion. It is just dull, incalculably dull compared to the rapidity, randomity and actual sensation of the Spirit of Play. It’s way up there.


    When a man loses his Spirit of Play, he’s dead. That means people start dying at about 3.0.

    You want to know what’s wrong with your preclear? Well, your preclear is too serious. You want to know what seriousness is? Seriousness is solidity. Did you ever hear of a “solid citizen”?

    If you want to get anything done, don’t get any of these serious boys. There’s nothing that succeeds like insouciance. Plain flippancy will get more done in less time than anything else you can name.


    As we go up the tone scale and things become lighter and lighter, a person can become much more ethical and at the same time a lot less serious.

    It sounds funny, but a person who is very serious is liable to fall short on ethics. He’s more likely to go into a moral code – something good and solid and heavy that will kill somebody unless he follows it.

    But when we get up the tone scale, we find that individuals are airier and lighter and more aesthetic.


    So the more seriously you take the game, the less chance there is of winning. The bottom of the Tone Scale is “lose” and the top of it is “win”.

    This tells you that it takes lots of space, and lots of “unseriousness” to win!

    from ADVANCE! Mag
    ISSUE 51
    Copyright 1968, 1982 by L. Ron Hubbard.

    • beebercat. Thank you for this. But, there is also a lecture in which he says it the hallmark of a Scientologist.

      • Oh, I forgot that you mentioned you heard it on a tape. What I saw must have been a written excerpt of that tape, but I definitely did see it in writing. Maybe somebody with an old set of Tech Vols can track it down and find out what the name of the tape was.

    • Theo Sismanides


      Hi, it’s from the PDCs, see my other post below.

  74. Sam,

    You’re formidable! LOL! Man!

    And you’re correct that My2c is a third party, but aside from not agreeing with Boyd I don’t consider that I’m fighting with him.

    Ok, well just to clear one thing up, I am not on the fence. I know which end is up. The objection I have to one of Boyd H.’s posts was his out of hand dismissal of the importance of someone else’s family. End of story.

  75. my post earlier should have gone at the end, but instead went under a reply position, under “OD”‘s post, many posts up. I know I did not hit the reply button.

  76. Hi Sam,

    KOT, shweeet!

    How is that for irony?


  77. 1st impression>GLEE

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