Independent and Proud

  I have told a number of friends that there will come a day when we know we have accomplished a major target in the mission to salvage the subject of Scientology from the havoc the church is playing with it. That benchmark will be achieved when the following scenario becomes common place: Someone mentions that he or she is a Scientologist to someone generally uninformed on the subject. The second person then asks the Scientologist, “are you with the church, or are you an independent?” When this becomes common then we’ll have achieved stripping the subject from the atrocities of the organization in the minds of the general public. Once people know you aren’t a bot with no imagination or confront, they will actually start inquiring about the subject and listening to what you have to say about it. That has been my experience on a one to one basis.

 An independent Scientologist sent the following email to Bill Handel a talk radio host broadcast on KFI in Los Angeles. The entire email was read on the air. While the discussion went to the j and d side with references to Xenu and the playing of Cruise’s DM directed IAS medal rambling the host seemed intrigued about the idea that there was an independent movement afoot separate and apart from the church.

Hi Bill, I listen to your show every day on my way to work. I heard your segment ridiculing Scientologists and their efforts to help with the disaster recovery in Haiti. I felt it was ill informed and filled with inflammatory rhetoric. You are attacking the wrong target here. Scientologists as individuals are among the kindest, most ethical people you could ever want to know. I can also tell you that there are serious problems with the church management that are causing trouble for the parishioners and staff members of the Church of Scientology, let alone the public at large. Many parishioners are now abandoning the formal organization of the church and declaring themselves Independent Scientologists. They have been doing so since the mid-eighties. 

 As you know, virtually all of the founders of other religious movements – Jesus Christ, Mohammed, The Buddha, Abraham, et. al. left a legacy that has seen the organizers and followers of those great religious movements go on to pervert and corrupt the revered tenets and foundational principles of their own religious organizations over time. Scientologists are no different. However, if you were to count the outpoints regarding the Church of Scientology, I think you would find that they are attributable to a very different “who” and “why” than the innocent scientology parishioners that you routinely attack and ridicule.     

 All I am saying is, if you are going to report on this subject, please do us a favor and do some real research on the goings on within the Church of Scientology. If, after you have done your research (which should include interviewing members of the church and Independent Scientologists) feel free to attack or support the right target. By the way, I am a 25 year Scientologist, 16 years as an independent.  

 Incidentally, this independent has done more to defend the VM’s than DM or Tommy combined from what I can tell.

 Finally, the independent told me that for  many years he has been embarrassed to mention he was a Scientologist. He said with the events that have unfolded in our community over the past several months, that is no longer the case. He is for the first time proud to call himself a Scientologist to his friends and business contacts and has no back off on talking about the subject.  He just makes it clear he’s an independent one.

66 responses to “Independent and Proud

  1. From my experience, the thing that tripped me up as a Scientologist was this:

    You read LRH’s books and listen to his lectures and you get an idea in your mind as to how the church of scientology is in present time based on how it was when LRH wrote those books and gave those lectures.

    You think that if you were to speak out against or criticize the church of scientology in present time you would be criticizing it as it was in the 50’s and 60’s when LRH wrote and gave those lectures.

    In my experience, the church of scientology is not the same as it was back in the 50’s and 60’s and I don’t mean in just in size and wealth. In my opinion, the church was alot more closer to the way it should be in the 50’s and 60’s than it is today.

  2. Whenever I protest, the Independent Scientology movement is an option that I always try to make whoever my “handler” is on that particular day, aware of.

  3. I share the same sentiment, before went Independent I feel shame of saying I was a Scientologist, now I proudly tell my friends I’m an Independent Scientologist and it feels so good!

    It has to do too with you all nice people, Thank you!

  4. In the 35 years I’ve been a Scientologist I have never been more proud of the fact than at this moment in time.

  5. Fellow Traveller

    Wow! And in Davy’s back yard.
    Whaddy mean Scn Co$ = DM?
    Ouch. That’s gotta hurt!

    My gratitude to all that are creating an environment where this can occur. Something comes to mind from the data series and sanity is the ability to differentiate.

  6. Similar experience here. For years I’ve told people I’m a Scientologist, but not involved in the Church. When I tell them why they usually talk about how they’ve experienced something similar in their own church. Then they want to know about Scn. and Dianetics. There’s nothing like honesty and leading by example.

  7. Good article Marty.

    Actually the people who frequent your board are Scientologists in the truest sense, that is those who want to change conditions for the better.

    However, the way things are now most us feel that we must distinguish ourselves from the corrupt organization that calls itself “The Church of Scientology” by using the “Independent” adjective.

  8. Hi my name is Alex and I am a recovering “embarrased Scientologist”.

    I used to cringe being put into a position where I had to admit I was a Scientologist and bring someone into the Org where they would be hounded to death. I couldn’t do it anymore.

    Now I tell people that I am no longer part of the
    “official” Curch of Scientologist but that I am an independent Scientologist. I can easily tell them about the out-points with the church and tell them I really like the philosophy. It actually makes me more real to them because I am being real with myself. I think that is how the ARC traingle actually works…duh.. and I feel great!!


  9. Kathy Braceland

    I’ve got the biggest smile on my face…this is so great. My hat goes off to you, you wonderful guy that sent this email to the radio guy. Nicely written and what a heckuva delivery! Thank you.

  10. For me the big win would be when a scientologist is welcome in the church even if he/she was active outside the church, or had advocated reform. (or even, heaven forbid, strayed and experienced other practices)

    Yes, the recognition of scientology as a philosophy and technology independent of the Cult that is the church now, is an important benchmark.

    Things will be right with the world when it isn’t important.

    Some people will naturally want a different culture or group to be active in than the main church, but it is important also that the church does not continue as something that gives negative connotations to the subject.

    Independent scientology is an important step in the evolution of meta-scientology, just as the church was an important step in carrying forward the technology in an organized fashion.

    But I hope that the church/independent divide is not the envisioned ideal scene, or what we see when we look back 5 or 10 generations from now.

    Can there be different “flavors” of scientology and still be true to the intent and even KSW?

    I say yes.

  11. This is it perhaps. The outflow on a large scale that tips the balance and “breaks the ice” on the flow opening on a large scale.

    This is really good news as an ack from the physical universe it would seem, which often takes such a long time manifesting. Awesome!

  12. This resonated with me, both as someone who aspires to be an indie Sci (as TC said, it really is something you have to earn the title of) and as someone who works in the media. I think that so many negative postings were made about VM during the early days of Haiti, and it made me both sad that the VM’s are being both used by their church to spam other media about everything they did, but to make fun of the assists they gave out. The fact is, there’s a lot of things that smell bad about that whole thing, but I DO think that we all have the right to use tech to improve conditions, just as much as a Christian has a right to lay hands in prayer on a sick person. But the good message gets drowned out by the bad.

    I would hope in the future that more journalists would be fair in looking at all sides of a faith and not pull out the parts that fit their story and instead give an evenhanded look at the religion’s core beliefs. And those aren’t always found by finding all the stuff people have no concept of, like some ridicule the Mormon belief in baptizing for the dead.

  13. I too feel proud today. I used to be open with being a Scientologist but there was always effort involved – not today – it is with pride, effortless.

  14. Marty,

    Just so that I can have a better idea of what you mean (in general, not just this article), Would you care to post the following picture:
    And tell who is who in that picture, who is still in and who is out and any data you have on them?

    As you say many people have deserted, etc. This picture was one of the first presentation of RTC when very little was known about it. Scientologists regarded this group as the best among the best of the best. So I am curious, if most left, then it would be a glaring out point.

    Thank you.

  15. Theo Sismanides

    It is not the structure that counts but the function. We as Independent Scientologists adhere to the functionality side of Scientology not the stucture of a church. And we don’t need a church for a via as immortal thetans.

    We are a new movement. One like the internet, we have no positions in space per se, if I may call it that way. We are all around on the web and lead our lives on planet Earth each one on his own ground.

    But on the web we have our very heart and mind which is impenetrable. We have this function, this communication channel upon which Theta pours by the dozens.

    We have returned to Scientology a very basic thing: Respect for fellow man and the basic tenet that he is basically good… not that he is basically an SP as in the church has proven to be.

    Thanks Marty, thanks guys.

  16. I share the same feeling, I can’t imagine calling myself other than Scientologist, but not it’s got the right prefix Independent! And by the way, for the OSA morons who read and report to RTC and his dwarf, I’m an auditor and will always be one despite all efforts from the RTC reps who attempted to make it impossible!!! My answer to them is Fu.k Y.u!!!

  17. Soothing article Marty thanks. Differentiating is the key to justice everywhere and always.

    And a bold and brave and thus very effective move on the side of that independant Scientologist. Bravo on getting the good and engaged guys out of the a=a=a wrong targeting created by the most gross PR flops the Church seems unable to avoid time and again.

    (Please, help on “the j and d side”- I don’t get it.)

    While the stats of smoke and mirror dm are actually reverse to what he claims (even the most irrelevant ones he is boasting with) I can SEE your stats, Marty: more and more people joining, contributing valuable and deeply sensible information to the full picture, clarifying confusions in an endless row and leading through the fog created and still whipped up hard by that guy and his sheeple.

    What an incredible amount of TA handled most beautifully. Thanks again.

  18. Thank you for doing that! It’s not the hallmark of those anons I experienced so far, so I appreciate independance in that field very much, too.

  19. The independent movement might be better to re-brand – call yourselves Hubbardists or Hubbardians or something like that. Sticking with the Scientologist brand is a misnomer because there is no discernible link to any science, and also automatically blackens your name bacause of the outrages of the Church of Miscavige.

  20. Marty ~~

    You said
    “…. salvage the subject of Scientology from the havoc the church is playing with it.” I pondered on that for a moment.
    Without going too much off topic, I would like to take a moment to discuss the Emeter use in current Church (as opposed to use of Emeter by Independents)

    The Church of Scientology says its E-Meter is “a religious artifact and can only be used by Scientology ministers or ministers-in-training.”
    This is an extreme falsehood. Miscavige has made the Emeter a tool for punitive reasons.
    The meter is not used for “religious” purposes at INT BASE, Freewinds (when you are there for HCO reasons) or in any RPF.
    At the Gold Int Base The E meter is used to overwhelm, get coercive confessions, browbeat, bully, and break the spirit of the pc.
    Nancy Many who wrote the book “My Billion Year Contract.” where the Emeter used interrogatory style caused her to have a mental breakdown.
    The Church says ~~
    By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral counseling.
    The Emeter will be used for INTERROGATION to harrass you with insane and paranoid questions about your deep dark secret connections to the FBI, CIA, IRS.
    The Emeter will be used to find out if you are psychiatric PLANT or PDH’d
    (Please laugh with me~~ The Emeter will be used to find out if Eli Lilli the Drug company sent you into the Sea Org to destroy the Church)
    The Emeter will will be used for INTERROGATIONS by the hour on your Counter Intention to David Miscavige, your overts on David Miscavige, Your crimes on David Miscavige, your unkind thoughts about David Miscavige, your intention to “upset” COB.
    The Emeter is used for Black Dianetics to give you an aversion to auditing.
    The EMeter is also used as a tool to rake in $$$$Buck$$$$ “Not auditing you” HCO style Sec checks every 6 months in the middle of Solo Nots.

    Religious Artifact ? Come on.

    Scientology Independents you are head and shoulders above the insanity that passes for the NORM and the squirrel use of the Emeter

  21. martyrathbun09

    Fidelio, j and d = joking and degrading.

  22. blip,
    I’ve got an idea, it will cover all the bases: Hubbard Association of Scientologists International. Seems to me, this might be free.

  23. WnP,
    By itself, the emeter does nothing.

  24. “Therefore as a rule, while engaging in any collective, social or organizational activity, you have to foster individuality.”
    LRH notes, Oct 78.

  25. martyrathbun09

    War and Peace re the meter. You have opened up an interesting subject here. The church for years tried to falsely portray the Founding Church v FDA case decision as saying that a meter could only be used within a Church of Scientology. That decision said nothing of the sort. It said in essence that the meter could be free from FDA oversight if it were labelled that it was only used for pastoral counseling and it was used in a religious context. It was a pretty enlightened decision by a famous appellate jurist, Skelly Wright. In fact, I believe you are onto something here. Now, the ONLY place the meter is used lawfully, in the religious context that Wright said made it safe from FDA regulation, is OUTSIDE the C of M.

  26. As a member of that general public, I can say that this blog and other Independent sources have changed my viewpoint such that in conversations with friends I will certainly make the distinction between individual Scientologists and the “Church” that has been victimizing many of them.

    I should also mention that one of the texts that altered my perspective the most was “Super Scio”, by the late free zone figure once known as The Pilot, AKA Ken Ogger. To many of you, this fellow was a squirrel par excellence: self-avowedly out-tech and quite possibly mentally ill. But what made such a strong impression on me was the experimental, exploratory, non-dogmatic character of his writings. Surveying this material, it dawned on me that Scientology may truly have a future as a subject and a discipline even if the “Church” does not or should not. This blog and the community that has grown around it and other similar sites have reinforced this notion.

    Finally, I’ll take a brief moment to say farewell and good luck: this forum has evolved in such a direction that there is a lot of very important work going on here that simply does not pertain to a total outsider like me. I appreciate being welcomed here and allowed to participate. Please know that you’ll always have an ally in me. You have my best wishes for your success.

  27. martyrathbun09

    Eponymous, Thanks. Check in once in a while. And good luck.

  28. Just came across this:

    Ex-Staff to Expose Abuse and Human Trafficking Within the Church of Scientology

    Press Conference – February 12, 2010 10am – Center for Inquiry’s Steve Allen Theater

    (Los Angeles, CA) Six former Scientology staff (members of the Sea Org, Scientology’s paramilitary force) will expose abusive conditions inside the church of Scientology, including exploitation, physical abuse, and forced abortions. This press conference coincides with the two-year anniversary of global protests against the church by the internet group Anonymous.

    Speakers include:

    • Marc Headley, author of Blown for Good. For 15 years Marc lived at Scientology’s International Base, where he worked 100-hour work weeks for less than 50 cents an hour, enduring mental and physical abuse. Marc made a dramatic escape from the heavily guarded compound in Hemet, California, and started a new life with his wife, who also escaped.

    • Nancy Many, author of My Billion Year Contract. When she was five months pregnant, Nancy was sent to Scientology’s re-indoctrination labor camp, where she was forced to work ten hours a day, followed by five hours of study, while living in a garage. Nancy suffered a mental breakdown after relentless interrogations and confessions.

    • Laura Decrescenzo was recruited into Scientology at the age of twelve. Married at sixteen, she became pregnant and was forced to abort her child; Scientology staff are not allowed to have children. In desperation, Laura swallowed bleach to get herself thrown out.

    • Jeff Hawkins spent 35 years working for Scientology all over the world, including the top level at the International Base. Jeff left Scientology five years ago after suffering beatings by Scientology’s leader, David Miscavige.

    • Will Fry was raised by scientologists, and attended Scientology boarding school while his parents worked for the church. As a teenager, Will joined the Sea Org, but immediately realized he wanted out; it took him almost three years. Afterwards the church billed him $12,000 for a so-called “freeloader debt.”

    • Maureen Bolstad , at age 15, “got tricked into making a dumb mistake” and signed a contract to join Scientology staff. Maureen was promised an education and regular pay, but instead worked 18 hours a day, seven days a week, and developed health and emotional problems. She was allowed to leave after three years of being made to “confess her sins and evil intentions.”

    • Mark Bunker (moderator) is an Emmy-winning journalist who has been covering Scientology since 1997. His website ( features video and commentary covering the controversial church.

    The conference will include a Q&A session and individual interviews. The event is expected to be attended by Anonymous protesters.

    Time: Friday, Feb 12, 2010 – 10am
    Location: Center for Inquiry’s Steve Allen Theater
    4773 Hollywood Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90027

    Note: Apparently videos will be posted to YT soon after the conference is over.

  29. The anons have a lot of work to do. I am sure it would be in the highest interest of the powers that be to paint them as “terrorists” or unsuccessful overgrown kids that live in their mama’s basement. But the anons have a specific chaotic energy that is called for in this overly corrupt world at this time. Look at what they are doing in Australia with the government attempts at conducting a heavy internet censorship test run. The hackers and anons are a huge force for hope in this new digital society. A society that is unaware that it has reached a technological singularity that has provoked a power struggle that not many are even aware of, much less have the technical skills to push against.

    This letter is a great idea… for years I have been commenting similar things on articles and blogs when SCN’s are mentioned. No matter how ridiculous it all got I never really stopped thinking of staff as my peers, and it burns me up to see them ridiculed. For brevity I usually just say it all happened when Ron died during a greed and power struggle. Everyone speaks that language. As a matter of fact I am seeing the independent field mentioned more and more in comments section. Seemingly written in third party, “I think the Scientologists out in the field aren’t bots” or such things as that. I give most of that credit to anon for stirring up the hornets’ nest and the independents that showed up at those protests, who, like the author of this letter, did worlds more to defend the subject than the goons with video cameras. Anon never came close enough to where I live but I always saw that as a great dissemination opportunity. One Rons Org guy I know even took an e-meter to the protests and showed the anons how it worked.

    It kind of cracks me up how the Xenu material is so controversial, I guess the world is just flat on the beliefs of some of the major religions that make no logical sense whatsoever.

    I’m surrounded by Mormons, and as a native american they think the devil made me. Honestly that is one of their beliefs, it’s kind of amusing.

  30. TheEmperorIsNaked

    That’s good. How does one find that reference?

  31. Jim Logan, I had a Lifetime membership card that was a HASI that I paid $75.00 for. I was very proud of it. It was a little card the size of a credit card or a driver’s license. Of course, many years later, I paid $2,000 for the membership in the IAS. How about an AIS, Association of Independent Scientologists, that cost $75 for clerical expenses or Association of Independent Scientologists International, AISI, pronounced I SEE, as in I see the light! Marty has one that would be AS-IS, but I can’t remember how the words go. It would be great to have a general membership directory that we could all use to contact one another. What do you think?

  32. There are some of us still using their “lifetime” memberships in HASI….


  33. Blip,

    Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning “knowledge”)

    What link to science would you have to validate scientology in your mind? Academic recognition? Government funding?

    Hubbard used the “scientific method”,

    Hypothosis, experimentation, observation of results, modification of hypothosis, lather rinse repeat, to develop our technology.

    Yes he did experiment on willing humans rather than mice ormonkeys as it now the custom, but if you read his early works, you can see the anecdotal accounts of how he did it.

    Most of his experimental research is contained in the case folders and writings that are not published, but the “science” did occur. What is published broadly are the results, a workable applied science, a technology.

    It is common for people to accuse “scientology” of not being peer reviewed, double blinded, and not having the appropriate rigor and impartial examination. The solution for that in my opinion is for those who say that, (and maybe you) acquire the materials and try them yourselves, although experimenter bias would seem problematic…

  34. Live broadcast of exscn press conference is in progress. I’m listening to it and watching it now. Find it here:

  35. Lady Minn,
    What I think is that the IAS should be made defunct and the original LRH policies on the HASI restored. As far as I can tell, as delineated on the sc-i-r-s-olgy site, that organization is no longer there because it simply fell between chairs and its charter wasn’t renewed. LRH’s association of Scientologists is the HASI and there’s explicit LRH policy on it (not so with the IAS). Since I’m a Scientologist, and LRH is Source of the materials, I’m an LRH Scientologist. I too am a lifetime member of the HASI.

    Hey, what happened to the HASI?

  36. P. Henry thanks for the feed. Came in on the last part. wow well it all needs to come out and it all needs to stop. Interesting perhaps now once the media clammers the investigators will go in. Many beings have taken part in exposing the injustices. I would say this would make a dent in their day!

  37. That was an amazing news conference. Well done to all those who spoke today. There was no mocking of the tech but rather a lot of information on the abuses.

  38. Jim,


    The old HASI is owned by others, whom we do not want to be art of this new HASI for the most part. This new HASI is owned by independents.

    How about as the non-profit purpose and goal of this new HASI: KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING.


    How about a charter that allows this HASI:

    To accept donations from anyone and everyone, including C oM, but it is ONLY allowed to give donations to Scientology Independants who are truly working on KSW projects disrelated from C o M projects and NO money can be given to the C o M.

    And as one of the statutes in its charter: No member nor any executive can draw any salary. All works is to be done FREE.

    Are you with me on this Jim?
    Anyone else?

  39. Fellow Traveller


    Hi my name is …. I am, ah, er, was a PTS scientologist. I was completely PTS to my church “leadership”. I am dePTSing now. I have been dePTSing for several months now.

  40. HASI-KSW,
    My view of the scene today has been stated clearly on various sites and blogs and so on. I’ll have to answer your question by stating it here.

    I am bypassing the broken line that is the Church of Scientology under a Suppressive Person, David Miscavige. That church has departed from the actual materials of LRH to such an extent that it falls within the admonition LRH wrote into the Charter and Bylaws (the latter in clearly expressed terms) that should any Church of Scientology, be that RTC, any part of CSI, ANY church depart from LRH materials in the fashion that DM has wrought, then Scientology and that Church of Scientology are NOT ‘coterminal’. They are different.

    While bypassing this squirrel group we call the Church of Mestology, Church of Miscavology, Church of Cant-havig-ology and various apropos appellations, and going forward training and auditing with LRH’s Scientology, I fully intend to see that DM is removed, and the Church of Scientology is put back on to LRH materials.

    In the meantime, a number of lightly organized entities are showing up here, individuals, small groups and such and networking to deliver and disseminate actual Scientology, not DMology. I’m one of those individuals. I will continue to do this and see that as necessary the distinction between LRH Scientology and DM’s travesty is clear.

    When the removal of DM occurs I foresee a broad and inclusive amnesty, with the exact same intention as the one done in the 60s to ‘end rancor’ among other things. From there, all the various individuals and small groups and the networking that is coming in to existence now, will be one part of the overall movement, along the lines of LRH’s policy on Missions, Franchises and Field Auditors and such and LRH ED 54 Int, Superior Service Image.

    In other words, inclusive and widespread and with the bulletins, The Role of A Scientologist, Special Zone Plan applied for real.

    So, nope, I don’t want to establish a new HASI. I’d like to see the original back and this IAS done.

    I think LRH policy, understood and applied as per 11 Apr 70, Third Dynamic Tech, i.e. by bright minds who can think with it, embraces all sorts of what the meaning of ‘field’ was and is ‘those who practice in a given subject or area’. The ‘field’ is all of us, Central Orgs, missions, field auditors, Flag, the whole works. Independence is an aim of the body of work. Groups are the 3D, part of the coordinated activities of independent beings, by agreement.

    There’s plenty of room for everybody in this game. DM’s the one that can’t play with others. Of course he can’t cause they are all ‘after him’.

    Whew, that was long. Hope it’s clear.

  41. Oops, left out the acronym CST on the ‘charters and bylaws’ sentence.

  42. I posted a lot on on 28 July 2007 from Ken Ogger which he asked be released in the event of his death. Those who wish to experiment would be well advised to read it.
    It starts:
    Beginning in December of 1999, I went into a total case spin and mostly stopped posting to the net except for post69 at the start of January.”

  43. I believe it’s from the World out of Comm eval.

    Right Jimbo?

  44. Marty ~~~

    Good info on the Legal.
    The point I am making is that the E-meter can be used brutally for punitive actions and coercion ~~ even the Church of Scientology term was coined “gang bang sec checks” when it was 3 or 4 against one. I had one of those.
    This is Religious ?
    AND what you say in these “Religious Sessions” can be broadcast at group musters, used against you to publish on line, used against you to give to the Media.

    Religious ? Priest/Penitent privilege ?
    The Saint Petersburg Times published private Ethics conditions, other data from pc folders e.g. Amy Scobee’s private and personal stuff.

    I will stick my neck out and predict that there will never be a day where an Independent would make the pc “Fair Game” and abuse privileged session data to the Media and publish the pc data on websites.

  45. Marty,

    Didn’t Wright’s decision also limit the meter’s use to Scientology Ministers and Ministers in Training and used only in pastoral counseling?

    Something the Church itself violates constantly with ethics interviews and stress tests.

  46. Alexis de Tocqueville

    Very nice post, this. My thanks for it and my gratitude to the Independent for writing a wonderfully worded and truthful missive.

    I am firmly of the opinion that the Fourth Estate needs to become engaged in this great matter and that media needs to be looking in the right place, just as the person responsible for this email above has directed it to do. Rachel Maddow and Jeff Sharlett have probed into The Family, its C Street house, and that organizations opaque geo-political engagements perhaps in violation of their 501(c)3 status. Apart from having US Senators and Congressmen in their rank and file, they are really small potatoes when you come down to it.

  47. Yeah I agree Victoria those Mormons are a strange bunch especially when they own a state like Utah.

    Try ordering a steak rare, there!


    As far as the Anons go.

    The problem is they seem to be capable of falling into the same trap that such radical groups fell into during the sixties.

    I.e. owned and controlled by CIA:

    As we both know there ain’t no such thing as an “ex” spook.

  48. martyrathbun09

    RJ, yes, otherwise be subjected to FDA regulation.

  49. Eponymous, I’m like you. An outsider who tries to add value. And I am slow to say it, but … (grits teeth) … I’m hopeful that this group may actually deal with their cult dynamics.

    I recently heard on YouTube a world class OT give a lecture and refer to Lifton’s “Sacred Science” criteria of mind control. Later he referred to some practicing Scientologists in his forum as “culties” or something similar.

    Most impressive! Go-Go Independent Scientologists!

  50. crashingupwards

    brilliant . AISI.

  51. Great job Fellow Traveller!!

    We should start having weekly meetings like they do in AA! 🙂


  52. Jim,

    I have been a proud Member of the HASI since 1969! Scientology, by LRH definition, is “a body of wisdom”. It is not an organization. However, the members of the HASI, as an organization, are actually trying as hard they can to apply standard LRH technology.

    This is the ONLY thing that defines a Scientologist — applying LRH standard tech, standardly.

  53. Jim,

    Yes this is a very clear outline. Appreciated ! I am with you and will be in touch.

  54. What she said! 🙂 I thought so, too!

  55. Question: So was the Vatican *really* being Christian during the Inquisition? Can one honestly call them Christians? (torture, killing, corrupt brothels in the Vatican, political favors and assassinations, selling redemption) Wondering about this.

  56. Dear Crashingupwards,

    Thanks for the ack on my idea of the “AISI”, and for calling it brilliant. However, after reading Jim Logan’s reply on the HASI, I have to agree with him. If HASI could be put back together, then that is what we should do. If we can’t put it back together , at least now in present time, due to legal or other reasons, then maybe we could have an AISI organization just for purposes of identifying and staying in comm with each other, and locating old friends. I completely agree that whatever we can do to re-establish the original tech and admin and admin lines, as laid out by LRH, is the on-Policy thing to do. However, until such time as true order and tech is restored, we are all on “Cope”.

  57. Emperor,
    Send me a mail and I’ll show you where I found that quote.

  58. I have used this as my catch phrase for 6 months now. I no longer need to justify the organisations out-ethics to make survival tech agreeable.
    To quote Hymn of asia prologue in describing the name of Mettteya (LRH’s identifier in the work):
    “But Siddhartha Gautama did not regard himself as an end point. He looked upon his
    work as incomplete and prophesized that at a later time a successor would arise to complete his work.
    The most specific wording of this prediction in Buddhist literature states that 2,500
    years after Buddha a red-haired or golden-haired man would arise in the West to complete the job Buddha began.
    In Buddhist literature his name is known as Metteya (or Metteyya with two y’s) in
    Pali, or Maitreya in Sanskrit.
    Metta is the Pali word for love. Thus the name could mean “One whose name is kindness”.
    A more fluent translation of Metteya in English would be “friend”.

    I am a friend. I hope I can be befriended and give friendship that supplies a foundation for happiness. I am keen and shrewd in my friendliness, I do not suffer others ill chosen ways to undermine their own trustworthiness or their inadequite adjudications of mine. In fact I will use many and varied methods to trick and conspire to bring about as much love and happiness as possible, unfortunately the world sometimes requires those carrier waves to get understanding across. I am rather proud of my ability to say “I love you” in the majority of tones.
    Our goals may be great and carry huge burdens of a oneness of love, or the dissemination of truth, may include great courage and honour, but we will prevail, we cannot fail… we are statics, eternity is not a hope, it is inevitable… intrinsic. We KNOW, we ARE, and we WILL achieve the goal of continueed improvement of understanding and it will be brighter, happier and easier. And we will be able to acknowledge the love in our hearts for all.

  59. Jim,

    “When the removal of DM occurs I foresee a broad and inclusive amnesty…”

    This is something I’ve wondered about. When DM is removed, who will take over charge of the CoM? If all the top execs have been imprisoned and have been being tortured for months, years on end….who, inside the church, is going to be able, much less qualified, to step up and take the reins of church leadersip?

  60. The assertion that “Anonymous” is owned and operated by the CIA is just as ludicrous as the Church’s assertion that they are owned and operated by Eli Lilly. “Anonymous” is not owned or operated by anyone. That’s the point. They don’t have “cells.” They don’t “receive orders.” It’s not a top-down structure. I would recommend reading “Here Comes Everybody” by Clay Shirky for a better understanding of internet activism.

  61. MacScientology spokes Tommy Davis says witnesses “lose credibility” — and yet he his been caught lying to the public more than several times.

    Why does Davis blink blink blink his eyes so much when answering questions?

  62. Actually I meant “owned and controlled” to be facetious in a way.

    Manipulated and deceived would probably be more accurate like activists have been in the past.

    See following documentation:

    Documentation as opposed to a vague theory about internet activism.

    History repeats itself fish! Even those who think they are immune to history.

    Also why don’t you explain to me in 20 words or less why anonymous has accepted with open arms “former’ CIA operative Boris Korczak as one of their opinion leaders.

    I’ll be waiting at my end of the internet.


  63. My main employer is in Hollywood, even married to somebody famous. We have had a fantastic relationship for almost 10 years with very open, honest communication and talked about L.A. often. I finally, very apologetically, told her I had been in the CofS for all those years and all those trips and she stopped me.
    There’s no need to apologize. We know what good people there are in Scientology and you don’t have to apologize for it.

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