Two Moving Up and Little Higher commenters understand what Doven and the Kool Aid drinkers apparently cannot wrap their wits around. I know, not just believe, that they speak for a lot of folks:
Hi All, New poster here. Been listening in for a couple of months now. Laying low only temporarily until the family/work connections
I felt compelled to write after hearing the audio of Michael Doven and Marty. I wanted to let Michael Doven (and DM, who I’m sure is
reading every word of this blog) know that Marty has not just attracted the “disaffecteds.” My spouse and I are considered on-line, upstat, in-ethics, OT Scientologists, having done plenty of donos and “volunteer” work. We have both been in for many, many
My comm to Michael Doven is this:
We’ve never met but I think you’re a good guy. I know several of the other guys who came with you and consider them good guys too.
You are doing what you think is the “right” thing to do. I would have done the same thing myself many years ago. In fact, there was a point in the 70’s and early 80’s that I would have done just
about anything to protect the Church. But I would have been doing it for LRH and the Church that he created.
Things have changed.
I’m guessing that because you have been on “celeb” lines, you have no idea what life has been like in LA for an upstat (and per our
current Church mgmt, “upstat” means lucky enough to have some dough left in the bank to be regged later) Scientologist NOT on the
“celeb list.” I think you have no idea what it feels like to day after day have reges, in groups of 2-3 at a time, come to your door or sit outside your house waiting until you come home so they can ambush you. And I do mean day after day literally. And sometimesmultiple Orgs wanting money on the same day, standing at the
doorstep. I don’t think, being on the “celeb” lines, that you have been subjected to multiple 5-7 hour reg cycles that seem more like
Nazi extortion sessions than anything else. Or ambush sec checks and rollbacks because you resisted coming in for the 7th “briefing”
in as many months. I have a friend on the “celeb list” and he is shocked to hear what us “normal” group members have to endure in
LA. Apparently the “celebs” are treated much differently.
And I’m guessing that the reason DM used you guys for this latest escapade is that you have been the privileged ones. You possibly have less BPC on the way things are lately. I can’t imagine many of my other OT friends in LA being willing to do his bidding at this time.
Marty is correct when he says the Church is dead. The Church that I joined in the 70s, which was full of hope and joy and freedom and
friendship and spiritual awakening is indeed dead. In it’s place is some kind of militant cult. Like Haydn James, I never thought I would use that word in regards to my Church. But I only use it in reference to the current structure, the current “Management.”
Scientology as a tech and philosophy for life will never die. There is too much truth there. I have always considered myself a pretty good Scientologist. I have made much case gain and I thank LRH from the bottom of my heart for all of the tech and for the OT levels and for giving me a much better life. I believe in LRH and I won’t desert him.
Michael, I’m sure you feel the same on that last point. Let me ask a favor of you. Please re-read the Creed of the Church in a new unit of time. And then please take a few minutes to read LRH’s brilliant PL “An Essay on Management,” especially the section “A True Group” and “Power.” It’s possible that these things will not impinge upon you as much as they did me or my spouse–assuming you’ve had a different recent Scn experience than a lot of us in
LA. But just maybe you have other friends who’ve had experiences similar to those I’ve mentioned. And maybe these couple of datums
from LRH will get you thinking about the current scene too.
And please, please don’t be afraid to read the reports of how things have been going for these SO members at Int. If you feel like it’s not o.k. to read reports from those who have been denied proper justice lines, then please re-read the Creed and think about it again.
And to DM: You are not my “Spiritual Leader.” LRH is. Your harassment of Mike and Marty is just more bullying. I’m sure we can expect the usual roundup of OTs in LA for more sec checking and Interrogatories after you read this post. But you can only cut our lines for so long. Let me leave you with a quote from LRH’s Essay
on Management (perhaps you should read it sometime yourself.)
“A true group must have a management which deals in affinity, reality and communication, and any group is totally within it’s rights, when a full and reasonable examination discloses management in fault of perverting or cutting ARC, of slaughtering, exiling or suspending that management. ARC is sacred.” –LRH
Think about it.
Meanwhile, you’ve lost another couple of OTs. Happy birthday.
Marty, it makes sense to me when you say the “Church is dead”.
For me the Church is also dead. In the sense that it’s not what it used to be & it’s definitely not what I think LRH wanted it to be. I think it’s so infected with enforcement, $$$ hungry stat push, too little too late franticness, … that I’m not sure those things can ever be straighten out.
Sure the structure (AOs, Orgs, Missions, Applied Scholastics groups,…) is their but the management mentality & how they treat people that don’t toe the line (invals, punishments, sec checks, shunning,…) is rotten to the core in my opinion. A friendly Church where people regain their own self-determinism doesn’t exist anymore. If you don’t toe the company line you’re an enemy. It’s a pretty sad state of affair. Any Organization that has members that have dedicated years of their lives to the cause but decide to stop attending Events & visiting the Church because of the constant pressure & overall unfriendly atmosphere if you don’t do what they want you to do, is not very healthy. If any of you ever felt that way from time to time, I’m sure you know by now that you were not the only one.
All these great programs (CCHR, Criminon, Narconon, TWTH, YFHR, VMs…) are just a smoke screen in my opinion. They treat the criminals at Criminon better than they treat their upstat members that donate lots of $ & contribute lots of time if those members don’t give all the $ & time the Church thinks those members should give. Anybody with a ounce of self-determinism can see how many Human Rights & WTH precepts the Church is violating. This whole VM thing about “I can talk to anybody for you about anything” is BS. They encourage their members to disconnect & shun family members & friends. They discourage (forbid) their members to find out what is being said in the news & internet about their Church. Take a good look & you’ll find tons of incidences where the Church inhibits and/or enforces communication. Is that what LRH teaches?
So in that sense, for me, the Church is dead. It doesn’t apply what it teaches & that’s why it’s not succeeding in my opinion. Oh true, it has all these new buildings & more people joining staff (at least it appears this way) but where’s the public? My guess is that they have more staff than public attending events these days. Actually probably mostly staff at least here at my local Org. They have to punish & threaten, eval & inval to get the public to participate on a regular basis. They threaten people with the loss of their eternity & comm lines. These days it’s safer to quietly & silently withdraw than to try to communicate when things don’t make sense to you or if you see things that are violating LRH policies. If you question anything, you get instantly punished.
I agree Marty, the Church is dead!
-Free To Think