All that glitters is not gold

I intercepted this comment from Sarge today. It is too important not to be it’s own post in my view. Here it is:

Marty, Great to see you again buddy, but you just set ole Sarge off again. Jim you shine again! Gonna get sudden. I have never seen anything more disgusting to me than the way Pat Broeker and DM spent money that did not belong to them. Pat was the biggest’ hobby horser’ I ever saw and DM had his head up Pat’s ass. They were the bobsey twins with gold and diamond everything.

Just before I went to Creston Pat and DM ran a money thing on me. I was taken to Beverly Hills to a fancy restaurant, the valet parked the Van. Why? We had a very expensive meal. I was supposed to be impressed. Wasn’t. Then I was told to pull a twenty dollar bill out of my wallet and burn it in the ash tray. They both laughed at me because they said I was too frugal and needed to learn that money was not a problem and to buy nothing but the best. To me that was waste. I know if it were up to them I would not have been on those lines as I was too honest. Had it not been for LRH I would not have been at Creston.

 In contrast LRH had all the money in the world and wouldn’t spend a dime on himself unless his stats were up. Let me give you an example. While we were up at Creston, one day LRH said to me enthusiastically, “Sarge, my stats are up. I think it’s time we got some vehicles for the ranch.” I had been driving around the 160 acre property and to town in an old beat up Chevy pick up truck. It was called Kris Kringle because it was painted with green and red primer. LRH said he had done some research and found that the most reliable, and economical vehicles he could find were Subarus. He even researched out how to get the best price on them. He directed me to go out and purchase a Subaru station wagon for off-property business and a 4wd Subaru Brat for his use around the ranch. I found the best deal in Orange county Cal. I bought both vehicles and towed the Brat with the wagon back to Creston. The old man was overjoyed. He loved the Brat. It was black and the wagon was silver.And that was LRH’s fleet. And he drove around the ranch in that little Subaru and lived in his RV on that ranch till the day he died.

134 responses to “All that glitters is not gold

  1. Sarge,

    You need to get sudden more often! This kind of first hand information is real gold. Not the inflatable\deflateable fiat currency everyone is kidding themselves has value.

    LRH knew that. You know that. Thanks for the tour of your heart of gold.

  2. Sarge,

    Your posts are always good. This one is no different. I enjoy when you are sudden.

    Thanks for sharing that tidbit. It’s a shame DM can’t learn that kind of worth.


  3. I think we will see a sudden explosion of Subaru sales in the independent field.

    And, I also agree with LRH. Subaru’s are the most dependable japanese cars on the market, bar none. Have always admired them.

    As a note of trivia, Subaru is a name given to the constellation we call Pleiades, or the Little Dipper. If you look closely at the Subaru name plate, you will see a rendition of the constellation.

    The fact that LRH lived a frugal life in the end is a testamony to what he considered important. And bathing in luxory was not important at such a time in his life.

    Thank you for sharing such a nice story. I look forward to more.


  4. Knowing there is a person like you Sarge to show them what’s what makes me happy.

  5. Thanks Sarge! More Sudden – much more!

    Centurion – I beg to differ; Lexus is most reliable these days by a country mile.

  6. Sarge, I was there on that “burn the money” lesson they were trying to pull on you, if you remember. Unfortunately, I was acting as if I was “on their side” which I am sure you recall I did a lot back then out of my irresponsible and fear motivated idea of self preservation. It feels good for me to tell you now after all these years that I am deeply sorry for siding with them and not you. Your pal, -JB

  7. Concerned Citizen

    I love your post Serge, I really do. Please more, more, more…

    I knew that the opulence of DM and RTC, ASI and IAS contrasted with at least rewards and penalties. I remember thinking to myself and being ashamed of this “enemy line” that it seemed that LRHs intention for auditors to be the highest paid staff in Scientology was not been honored therefore “punishing” or discouraging that activity while Regging and money making entities and RTC seemed to be raking in the rewards. So any staff would look at these things and would have the goal to become part of these elite groups within the Sea Org.

    Admirably, many staff still dreamed of becoming auditors regardless of the poor pay. And Sups and word clearers.

    Anyway I think LRH is an amazing being, that after all his contributions he would be so frugal like that only off sets Dave’s obsession. And your MEST and ability to acquire it makes you a legend.

    I’m so amazed always at how many things I saw that I did not see. I still cannot believe that I stood by all this…

    Sarge please, please, please, let your memories come flooding out in this blog, and your suddenness flourish for it is sustenance for the soul to read your stories. Thank you man, for being here and writing and for being a true friend of the old man.

  8. Concerned Citizen

    It is no secret, I’m an awful writer, I hate it as I’m very bad at it, at school I’d always flunk English and any writing workshops. So now that I have justified myself for my shortcoming, I like to clarify that in the above post “And your MEST and ability to acquire it makes you a legend” I meant to write it so as to describe Dave’s seeming philosophy.
    So I’m no wordsmith, but I like communicating here a lot, thank you all for your patience.

  9. JB, As I told Marty, I have no charge at all on
    anything you did or didn’t do. I remember us
    being good friends and I remember after an all
    nighter I helped you move some vehicles around. We ended up at a burger place in San
    Berdo. I got into one of my moods and started to make you laugh. We were both laughing so
    hard tears were rolling down our faces. Thats
    the JB I remember.

  10. I always had the Old Man pegged as a Ford or a Chevy guy. I learn something new everyday.

    BTW, C of M always keeps a Ford Crown Victoria parked in the horseshoe at Big Blue. It is a narc lookalike car. People who walk by might think the police are inside. I figure the car is there in case DM needs to vamoose suddenly. Wouldn’t be surprised if DM keeps a bottle of scotch in that fake narc car. The little guy might get thirsty one night when he is speeding towards the Mexican border with Tommy Two Tone driving. After the Turin raid, ya’ never know what is next in store for Miscavigology!

  11. Welcome to “Car Talk”! Haha.

    Lexus is a lot more expensive than Subaru though, and has a lot of luxury. Subaru’s are four wheel drive and built sturdy.

    Besides for some reason seemed someone wanted to frame Toyota. With a lot of that hoopla about stuck gas pedals turning out not to be true.

    It’s a great make Toyota, I bought one for a thousand dollars way back when, it had a hundred thousand miles on it, I drove it for another hundred thousand and sold it to a guy that put fifty more on it before I lost track of him.
    And while I am whittering on about cars it just occurred to me that, this happened back when I was on lines… and the car dealer was a scientologist.

    He gave me a deal, and helped me out with the car even after he had got his money. It would be nice to make deals like that again with people you know are good for their word.

    Last time I was traveling in CO many of the cop cars were Subaru’s.

    Mr. Ass backwards has got it all wrong again… if things get much more restless in this country he’d better be careful.

    The pitchfork carrying half way through their last level which they are doing for the third time while working five jobs to pay the loan on the NEW BRIDGE which looks more like a game of donkey kong than anything LRH ever wrote….whew…

    Yeah THEM, they could turn on him and MAN if he thinks WE are a lot of trouble wait till that happens!

    Just to clarify though how absolutely wonderful all the churches real estate is, imagine my delight when I was auditing that little 12 year old PC I have mentioned before, and her ruds weren’t going in. As I dug around a bit it turned out she wasn’t getting much sleep because her stepmother, (SO member,) had just had a baby and my PC had to pick a large roach out of the baby’s mouth in the middle of the night, the baby almost choked to death. Now my PC was losing sleep and worrying.

    The baby was covered in roach bites…

    Yep. Mr. Ass backwards demands nothing but the very very most disgusting for the sea org members.

    I just get the feeling that there’s gonna be payback when the contagion of DE-abberation starts flowing through the lines.

    All roads seem to lead back to some kind of abuse, whether it’s outright physical abuse, or abusive negligence toward the staff or just abuse of trust. He doesn’t actually have any power, seems like he is uses the solidity of anger and duping himself into thinking that is the equivalent of maintaining his position in space.

    And yeah, I’d like to know more about that supposed meeting between Bush and MAB, (Mr. Ass backwards).

    Those upmarket ads may have worked a lot better back in the bubbling 90’s but no one is using that kind of marketing now. Excess has finally gone out of fashion!

    Sarge the incident you describe sounds very familiar. And reminds me of Dean Stokes attitude. His private fridge (padlocked) with only the best food while the rest of the staff ate rice and beans.

    And his stretch limo with a huge set of longhorns mounted on the front and a moo for a horn. I remember we took it down to Austin and the guys down there were mystified! That Austin Org was about a hundred times more sane than Deans mission. Anyway, Dean just degraded them for low havingess and running a scarcity. I got to admit, when scientologists get shitty they can be really annoying. Haha.

    Ya DB with no havingness downstat robot dirty rock slamming SP!

    It’s comical, unless of course it being directed a oneself;)

    Rons entire generation were much more sensible than the subsequent ones in America. They’ve all been sold a bill of goods.

  12. bulletproof

    Hey there buddy,

    Wow, thanks for the reminder of the Sabarus.

    I remember them when I went to Creston shortly have LRH’s passing. DM dragged me there to photographically “document” the Bluebird and other spots of the ranch. I well remember those vehicles which were still there and we drove them around the property.

    I later bought myself a Subaru in the mid 90s after I was out. Without question an outstanding car that seemed to run forever.

    Thanks again for the memories, man.

    Keep ’em coming!

    Love, Ted

  13. War and Peace

    Wow JB.
    Warm welcome to Marty’s Blog.
    I am all too aware of the significance of your posting.
    Super cool.
    Tanya Lewis’s tales are quite something but you are levels above that !

    War and Peace

  14. War and Peace

    Thank you Sarge for another gold nugget on the LRH we know and love.


  15. War and Peace

    F & E

    You made me recall a lovely afternoon with Janadair and some spectacular rare LRH photos…


  16. Mark Fisher

    Hey Sarge, Thanks for sharing that story.

    Although I wasn’t up there at the Ranch with you, I can verify at the Gold/Int base the same was true regarding finances for LRH.

    When we renovated the LRH spaces including his house at Bonnie View, it was not “anything goes”. There was no imported wood from Africa for paneling. Instead it was formica laminate furniture for the Old Man and he was happy with the designs and the looks of his places.

    He also was very generous to his personal staff in the HU and CMO Int as well as with other senior execs. His PRO would buy us birthday gifts from LRH every year and the same at Christmas time. These were not super expensive gifts, but for a Sea Org member at the time, they were very luxurious indeed. I remember getting a Dress suit one year. My ex-wife who was a long time messenger would get jewelry from LRH. Nothing expensive, but tasteful bought in the jewelry district in downtown LA, not at Tiffany.

    Jeannine Boyd would handle these purchases for LRH.

    There were no large shopping sprees on Rodeo Drive or NYC.

    We were happy just the same to be getting something from LRH.

    The same held true when we renovated the Author Services Offices in late 1983 on Sunset Blvd. I was handling the purchasing for the renovations, and the budget was held tight. The place looked great afterwords and you could entertain any Hollywood Celebrity or Lawyer in those offices and they would feel comfortable. It just didn’t cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    There are also stories over the years of Pat Broeker and DM gambling with LRH’s money in Las Vegas and Reno when they used to meet.

    Just goes to show you the criminality going on.

    Yours, Mark

  17. Quicksilver

    Sarge – thanks for the great post … keep them coming … I love it when you get `sudden`!

    A little correction … the Plieades are known as the ‘Seven Sisters’. The Little Dipper is called Little Bear and part of Ursa Minor

  18. Joe Howard

    Speaking of gambling with LRH’s money, I was told by credible sources who worked at ASI that DM lost about $20 million of it in bad, real bad investments, which is what spurred the whole ASI leatherbound books and Frank Frazetta half naked women paintings. DM had to make the money back to cover his losses. And we all thought it was for the preservation of the Tech. True enough, providing DM’s ass is named “The Tech.”

    Like LRH’s house at Gold/Int, his house at La Quinta, which he did live in for some years, was nothing out of the ordinary. Very clean, yes. Upstat, yes, and well designed. Set up for production, absolutely. Spacious, no. Luxurious, not in the least.

    Some people are born to be consumers. Vampires of all sizes fall into this category. They inflow.

    LRH outflowed and all he ever needed was a position from which to do so.

  19. Cured Robot

    God damned heartbreaking, whole lotta love for LRH, thanks for sharing that story. Outrageous indignation over DM and et all for riding on LRH’s coattails, try as they might their candles are extinguishing. A good read book “The Millionaire Next Door” talks about the millionaire’s who made it and it is not due to pretentiousness as prescribed by DM bots but real people, real lives not “star struck” by all their millions who continued to maintain a frugal lifestyle despite their riches. LRH used his riches for a much higher purpose, not to burn $20 bills at a dinner by a bunch of wanna be’s.

  20. CC

    I have absolutely no problem understanding your written expression, and have no attention on the mechanics of it. I always get what you’re saying.

    How much better than that do you have to be ?

    : )


  21. Sarge,

    Thanks for the nice anecdote.
    LRH and you truly understood the power of simplicity.

  22. Janis Grady

    LRH was not a Ford nor Chevy man, he went with whatever brand best fit the need. On the ship he had a pontiac convertible and a Land Rover. In all the years I worked with him, the Land Rover was rarely used, but in certain ports, he would have the pontiac put ashore and go for drives. He had the same cars for the 8 years we lived on the ship. Once we moved ashore he personally went out and purchased USED cars for himself and the new land base in Dayton, he got himself a cadilac and two Matadors for the messengers to use (none of us even knew how to drive when he got them) and vans for the base.
    When we moved to California he had his cadilac
    which the R Transport mostly drove him in to off base photo shoots and he had a 4×4 jeep cherokee which the messengers drove him around the base in. There was also the dodge dart which we had parked out back of Rifle (LRH’s home) as a get away car but when he did leave for Reno in ’77 after the FBI raid, he took one of the messengers 2nd hand station wagons instead. Later when we moved to Hemet, he traveled mostly in a van. He was very practical with his cars. As stated by Sarge, LRH was furgal with his and the church’s money and ordered comm evs on those who over the years overspent, way below the level of Pat and DM
    who is out of control.

  23. Charlie from the love police reports in.
    The one thing I find most encouraging right now is the certainty that most, the overwhelming majority right here; right now are good to the core.

    As the truth unfolds, the divisions will diminish, I already see it happening.

    On another note, I am wondering if anyones computer has been browser hijacked?

    I’m on my laptop right now because my desktop has taken a trip down the rabbit hole.

    No small feat by a long shot since my husband is in IT. Not that easy to get into one of our machines.

    Just curious.

    Sarge, thank-you so much for your stories. They are really special, you’re the real deal!

  24. I’m sorry this is off topic, but I just remembered something:

    I am watching a DVD of the 2007 GAK event where the Basics were released.

    This reminded me that at the ACC event there was something I spotted.

    There was an example of a restored lecture. I think COB said something about the original sounding like it was over a long distance telephone line. The original was very faint and whispy. What in audio engineering you might call tinny. There was no lower frequencies and to me it sounded like it had been run through a filter.

    A filter is a type of EQ that has a hard notch to it. You can set a specific notch or range of frequencies and “filter” out everything else.

    You can for example take a decent recording and make it sound like it’s over the telephone etc.

    Now at the ACCs event this clip came up and I immediately thought “thats a filter”. I wasnt thinking critically or analyzing the event. I was still onlines and interested in the event . But then the “fixed” version confirmed my thought- it was a full frequency range, high quality recording of LRH.

    So far as I know this is impossible. You cannot take a thin, whispy narrow frequency recording and fix it like that because you are dealing with sound that isnt there. You cant simply EQ it because it’s not there to EQ.

    There are processing tools that will synthesize lower frequencies, but there just wasnt enough there to work with IMO. You can make a regular voice sound fuller, but a thin, trebly recording wont sound much fuller because it’s lacking the frequencies. Adding low end synthesis would just make it muddy.

    Watching the GAK event with headphones on I am hearing some stuff too. One clip has old scratchy noises- the kind you would expect to hear on an old recording. Except they sould fake to me. There are digital audio processing effects that simulate this type of noise.

    If you guys have been to movies with CGI where it looks convincingly real, but theres just something about it that your eyes tell you it’s not real. Theres little give-away innacuracies that make it not-quite real. Thats what I’m hearing. These digital audio processing effects have a similar feel to them. They sound 90% real. Good enough for most people, but I can hear them.

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it.
    No doubt a lot of those old recordings are bad. No doubt Gold has cleaned a lot of them up.
    Maybe there is some new technology I dont know about.

    I guess this would be a case of exaggerating for effect? The original is terrible, scratchy, unintelligible. Then magically it sounds like LRH is in the same room- WOW!

    Maybe the original being just a little scratchy and it sounding just somewhat better isnt good for the event.

    Anyway, this was another one of those things that I just knew, like on the instant reads, FN’s and a bunch of other stuff. And when I just know I’m usually right.

  25. Hello, I’m a short term scientologist. I have mostly read the books, did Self Analysis and Dianetics and I also bought a few courses in my local mission and did them. I have benefited from the technology. No one disseminated to me, I never knew any other Scientologist before I found “The Original Thesis”
    Likewise on my own steam I found about Marty and his blog. I found others and I’m currently doing a doubt formula. I have already decided between the Church and the Independents I favor the independents. However I have gone into doubt about LRH.
    Sorry to bring this up here, but I truly am in doubt and need help with my step. I figured that if I ask here, I’m more likely to have the answers I’m searching for without any coloring. I think I can really understand concepts, I can understand for myself. I need to find information that will allow me to evaluate the data for myself. So please if you answer this, regardless of which side you are in, do not give me your opinion or interpretation, just the references. I want to look for myself; I cannot emphasize these enough.
    The main thing I need sorted out is the alleged plagiarism. Please if you think Hubbard was a rotten man, do not tell me that or why, I will decide that on my own, same if you feel he was a great man. I want to look at raw data.
    I know about the idea that he plagiarized; specifics is what I’m looking for like Jeff mentioned Scientology ethics vs Utilitarian Ethics. I looked at both side by side but I need to see more:
    So if you think Hubbard plagiarized something, I need the name of the original author, the name of the work if you have it and the exact reference or piece of tech you alleged he plagiarized, like Jeff mentioned. Study Tech is one I often find reference to, but no original author is listed, so if you have who you feel developed this, please provide me that name. Any other such things you feel were plagiarized, please do not explain how you think they are the same thing; just give me the works and author’s names.
    I also have heard of some Affirmations? I read the content and it does not seem Hubbard’s style of writing, still I want to look further into this, so please tell me if there is a way to authenticate their origin as Hubbard’s I will look at the data myself and make my own decision.
    I have benefited from what I have used of the tech, I doubt this will change regardless of the outcome, but please understand I need to sort this out.
    Concerned Citizen, I’m a fan of yours. Your point that people have different opinions about the same event being a factor in people’s perception of Hubbard was priceless, as well as the idea that we can’t demand he be perfect. I also appreciated your comment on people who hold different ideas from yours, how you learn from them instead of just opposing them.
    I really appreciate a lot of views here, I came to this board because I expect here I have the best chance at actually getting data and people not forcing their ideas down my throat. Thanks again.

  26. Virgil Samms

    Thanks Sarge, your posts glitter because they are gold.

    When you tell your stories I actually can feel the flow from LRH. You duplicate him well.

    ML Tom

  27. one of those who see

    Sarge, thanks so much! These stories are wonderful.
    Especially love this part. “Sarge, my stats are up. I think it’s time we got some vehicles for the ranch.”
    Shows he really lived it.

  28. Sarge, It always feels like home when I read your posts about LRH. Thank you for the gift.

  29. Concerned Citizen, you could’ve fooled me;) I like your writing … it does a good job of getting your *thoughts* across.

    Words be damned! I’d rather have a comma out of place than a sentence without a soul! THANK YOU for all you communicate.

  30. Sarge, your post is “Subarashii”! That’s the Japanese word spanning meanings like “Great” and”Wonderful”.

    I’m sure that’s where the car brand name came from, Subarashii > Subaru.

    Damn I hope you are writing down/recording these stories! If you need a little digital voice recorder to carry around, I would sure send you one, because your recollections are pure gold!

    Sad to think DM looks at those Idle Orgs and thinks “Subarashii!” to himself. He thinks all will be so impressed with them.

    But I think one story from you is more “subarashii” and worth more than all the Idle Orgs in the world.

    Thanks for giving the lie to those who like to insist Ron was “all about the money”.

  31. Thank you for posting this! Makes me feel all warm inside my chest.

  32. Marty,

    Could it be that the “Improve your brian” (ads by Google) that keep showing up on this blog are sponsored by OSA to discredit you and the indie movement?

  33. LOL
    When you ‘get sudden’ you still manage to pull it off with the most confounded dignity and grace.
    Love you for that – I can see why Ron did too.

  34. Greetings JB
    Congratulations on your hard won freedom and welcome to the Ideal Shack:
    The friendliest place on earth 😉

  35. Great post, Thank you!

  36. Victoria did you report it to the proper authorities ?

  37. Cowboy Poet

    Wonderful, Sarge!
    And you’re a stud too!

  38. martyrathbun09

    I don’t know what you are talking about. Connect the dots for me.

  39. martyrathbun09

    Janis, Hey! Thanks for this. Great to have you weighing in here. Don’t be a stranger.

  40. martyrathbun09

    Victoria, I took the link out cause it caused my computer to choke and cough. Maybe your problem has something to do with that link.

  41. Sarge and Mark,

    It was great to get the LRH perspective of MEST aquisitions.

    It is as I had always felt it should be. Little attention on MEST outside of clean and in good repair, all the attention on THETA.

    Not surprisingly, DM is all about MEST and little (if any) THETA.

    And, for those keeping track…Subaru has it hands down for performance and economy. Try finding a used one for sale, the owners just won’t give it up.

  42. Dear Victoria,

    I remember Dean Stokes coming to Austin in that stretch Limo. Wow! What a blast from the past! But, I had no idea that he was feeding his mission staff rice and beans, while he ate the best food! So the aberrations of living rich while starving staff on rice and beans, (if they’re lucky) are not just limited to the SO and RTC!
    Victoria, maybe we know each other! I remember Dean Stokes and Bill Franks at the famous, or infamous, Mission Holders Conference at Flag in 1981?, and they were acting very wierdly. Apparently, they were trying to take over the Church in a coup? There is still a lot of that whole scene that is a mystery to me, so many strange things were happening. It is still a group engram for me. Maybe someday Marty and the gang will enlighten us on what that was all about. I still just get bits and pieces of that era off of various internet postings. In earlier posts, it has been shared that the conference was my first glaring outpoint that all was not well in the upper management of Scientology.

    Marty, thank you so much for the video. It was very enjoyable and creates more reality, as we are dealing in significances, and it was nice to get some mass (the video) to balance all the significance, (words, words, and more words.)

    I have been going through so many changes and so many wins. Every day there is case gain for me as more of the group engram gets cleared up. Sarge, thank you so much for your stories about LRH; they are so wonderful. A long time ago, a Sea Org member, (can’t remember who) said that LRH used his own administrative technology. He didn’t just put it out for everybody else’s consumption and not use it. That had a great impact on me at the time, as I had some sort of ridge sitting there that blew when this person said that. Sarge, you’re telling me that LRH allowed himself to buy two vehicles due to his stats being up, is more evidence that this is true! I myself always reward myself and my 2-D when I close a deal by going to a very nice restaurant and getting whatever I want: steak, shrimp, crab, a nice bottle of wine. Sometimes I would feel a little bit guilty over spending that much money, a couple of hundred dollars. Well, not anymore! I found that it ended the cycle of action on that transaction, some taking months or years to complete, and it rewarded the upstat! To find out that LRH rewarded himself when his stats were up makes me feel great!!

    ML, Lady Minn

  43. Hi Sarge,
    Thank you for sharing your memories of LRH. It helps to hear that my perception of him as a brilliant, caring man who did not care for glitz was true as opposed to what is extant in the current church.

    I started in Scientology in 1975 in a little storefront in Chico, CA. The mission expanded upstairs and we all helped in the renovations (I was public at the time). The place was hopping with lots of wins and the mission holder was the auditor. We all wanted to be auditors!

    Vic and I were done with the church when the upstats were those who contributed the most $$$ and not those who contributed the most in production. We quietly walked away in disgust after attempting to correct what we saw as outpoints on the lines and getting nowhere. We worry about those we worked with including Kurt Wieland(sp?), Heber (where are you, Heber???), and others…

    Thank you Marty for all that you and your merry band are doing to expose the crimes and abuses of the current Co$. It gives me hope that the world’s perception of Scientology can be rehabbed.

    ML, Vicki

  44. Janis, Really good to see you post here. I’m sorry we went out of com. Kinda been busy with this blog and other silly justifiers. We need to
    get and stay in com as you are a wealth of stories
    about LRH as are all the messengers. Love, Sargio

  45. There is a tremendous difference between plagiarism and the advancement of knowledge.

    Plagiarism is simply taking another person’s works and altering the wording to deliberately obscure their source or not crediting their source. In fact, LRH has provided a long, long list of credits for original source works and provides credits throughout his works. You can find a really long list at the beginning of the book “The Phoenix Lectures.”

    Beyond that, the process of advancing knowledge, especially core principles or assumptions, usually starts with a review of existing principles and assumptions, the works of earlier scholars, scientific works, and works that may be unattributable and may culminate in a set of new principles, a new school of thought, a new synthesis or new discoveries entirely. Many of these earlier principles / schools of thought are considered to be “common knowledge.”

    Taking Utilitarian Ethics as an example, it has a long and somewhat obscure history – “The origins of utilitarianism are often traced as far back as the Greek philosopher Epicurus, but, as a specific school of thought, it is generally credited to Jeremy Bentham.” (from

    There are always similarities when fundamental principles are under discussion. Otherwise they would not be fundamental.

    But taking Utilitarianism as an example, utilitarianism is often described by the phrase “the greatest good for the greatest number of people”, and is also known as “the greatest happiness principle”. (from

    This is very different from the greatest good for the greatest number of DYNAMICS. There is no parallel in earlier works for the concepts of conditions formulas, the overt-motivator sequence, to name a couple of really major differences.

    In any case, utilitarianism is not the source of the idea of doing the greatest possible good. You could figure out that people do that simply by watching their actions. All the discussion is to do with ways of ensuring a better application of that idea. I sincerely doubt that it would be possible to trace that idea to any one individual.

  46. Great book!

  47. Wonderful story Sarge, your stories of LRH bring a huge smile to our faces; what precious gifts your memories are! Thank you. Jan

  48. When I first read about Ron’s death, it sounded like he was surrounded by people who did not love him and I felt so sad. I just wanted to hug him. Then I found out Sarge was there. Thank you, Sarge, for loving him. Everybody needs it.

  49. Centurion you missed the point. The conclusion was bying a Subaru but the point is doing the Research. So do the Research before buying a car.

    “he had done some research and found that the most reliable, and economical vehicles he could find were Subarus”

    And Martin, making a luxery Car like a Lexus is a big strain on the Enviroment regarding resourches and energy

  50. JB, Awesome, we are very proud of you. As you know many of us out here are not proud of things we witnessed that we thought were command intention. You have a lot of friends out here. ML, Jan

  51. This is not an answer to ‘In Doubt’, above but this was floating around inside my head and that post sparked this.
    In the late 80’s when I came into Scn I got hit with all sorts of negative press about LRH and the subject. This was never effectively handled. I was never entirely comfortable with the answers I got. They felt brush-off and evasive.

    Coming out of the’matrix’ about five months ago (feels like years!), I took my trip down the rabbit hole that is the internet.
    So, what did I get out of it? In short. LRH was a man, fallible, flawed, like any other. He did some things that were wrong, made some really bad decisions, maybe he did some really illegal things too (perish the thought!). Don’t we all? Did it lessen in any way, what I had achieved by applying his work? No.
    So, what’s the difference?. I feel its in the magnitude of effect. Big being creates big effects consequently the bad ones really stand out.
    What’s the solution? Would we rather he didn’t walk his path at all?

    The spectator will rail against any and all percieved wrongnesses of the trail blazer but when all is said and done he’ll happily walk that trail once it’s a clearly marked and smooth road.

    When we deify a man we do him the greatest disservice by lessening the magnitude of his achievements. Incidentally, I think we simultaneously absolve ourselves of any responsibility to walk that same path. Ser Fac, anyone?

    I looked at and continue to look at LRH, warts and all and my ARC does nothing but skyrocket.

    The more I know of the man the more I can be pan-determined about the tech and so I can become cause and the subject can become my own rather than a slavish adherence to the doctrine of some god.

    Thanks, Sarge for keeping him real.

  52. Sam,
    I think you’ve spawned a real birthday game idea there: The Ideal Shack Program!

    Where stats would truly soar out the roof. I’ll bet LRH would love it.

  53. To ‘In Doubt’, I can’t give you all those references you’re looking for although there are those here who could! I would say – read more; dig deeper; look and ask questions.

    AS to plagiarism, maybe he is guilty of this.

    All technologies are built on the earlier work of others.
    In the words of Sir Isaac Newton, “If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”

    LRH says professionals in any area are those that can get results. There are so many that can attest that results was something he most definitely did get.

  54. thanks for the source briefings !
    I always like them.


  55. “Victoria did you report it to the proper authorities ?”

    Cat Daddy, that is a complicated question. If by “proper authorities” you meant government child protection services then absolutely not, for reasons I won’t go in to here.

    We did however bide our time and eventually the big sister took custody of the baby when she was 18 years old!

    She’d lived at Flag most of her life and had no survival skills or education. Honestly she didn’t even know how to dial a phone. It was like trying to introduce someone to life on a different planet.

    We did what we could for her, I guess. Her dad was groundskeeper at the Sandcastle and he died suddenly of cancer so we were able to get her out.

    Ah, that’s been many years ago and I still don’t feel comfortable talking about it.

    Suffice it to say I have very little trust of the proper authorities, the roaches in most foster care facilities are propably better fed than the ones at the H.I. It’s a toss up.

    I’d like to think even to this day that there is a chance ethics can be got in by scientologists themselves, whether from the inside or the FZ or preferably a combination of the two working together.

    INMSHO the “authorities” are seriously broken and in most cases not where I would look for effective help.

  56. If you are writing a cook book and through research, trial and error until you find the exact perfect temperature to cook roast chicken, is it “plagarism” if that oven temperature is in other cook books?

    I think a truth is what it is and LRH wasnt the only person in history to uncover it. I see bits of Scientology everywhere- in groups, other practices, other writings. BUT when I compare it to my understanding of Scientology I find that it’s just that- bits and pieces. Usually its good and helps people, but I find it’s put together in Scientology. It’s a more whole package. And theres a lot fantastic stuff you will find nowhere else.

    I think it’s in DMSMH and maybe other basic books where he describes his method of researching and evaluating data and how he put the whole subject together.

    The way I look at it, if it’s in some Greek philisophers writings, or some mathmaticians book and you can see it in Scientology it’s because they were close to some truth. LRH read their works (he read a lot) and had that data available to him when he was doing his own research.

  57. CC

    You wrote “I’m so amazed always at how many things I saw that I did not see” WOW me too!

    And on the extravagance line, I remember in the mid 80’s, attending a Marc Yager’s birthday party – he was CO CMOI at the time. It was held at some restaurant off base. All the big execs and RTC brass were there and he was showered with MEST – expensive MEST. I remember thinking how totally over the top the whole thing was. And there I was – looking on – not seeing what I saw.

    I get it – thanks for your post.

    Sarge, Thanks for helping to bring things into perspective for us.

  58. RE: The “Improve your brain” ads.
    I have seen this ads showing up on your blog during the last week. It of course could be coincidental, but the subject for the ads is for sure something that many scientologists will perceive as entheta. It is not a pop-up window, but temporarily imbedded on the blog itself. I will let you know if the ads keep showing up.

  59. In Doubt,

    read the book evolution of a science, written by LRH. It should answer your question, if at all you mean it serious.


  60. I’ve never seen an ad on this site. I think it must be on your computer or popping up in your browser, but I I dont think it’s from this site.
    Is it a seperate window or “popup” ad?

  61. W&P hey man! You’ve been holding out. I want to read Tanya’s stories – where can I find them? Best, Rev

  62. Sarge, JB, Janis, Dan: 2 words…more, please!

  63. I don’t know Marty… maybe there was a problem with that link.

    I’ve been having problems for a couple of days. All cleared up for now fortunately. After removing five trojans.

    I was getting paranoid enough wondering if OSA would infect my machine with child porn or a smoking gun from a bank robbery or something, haha.

    Sorry about that link, maybe Charlie is having his own troubles.

    Sheesh, you must spend absolutely massive amounts of time keeping up with all this! Thank-you for that.

  64. In Doubt,

    As you’ve probably noticed, opinions about Hubbard run from black to white and every shade of grey. He was an unblemished super-being or the greatest con man of the 20th Century. A brilliant philosopher or a plagiarist who stole his ideas from more original thinkers. You can simply pick a viewpoint you like from this spectrum or be prepared to do some research on your own, but I can share a couple of tips from my own evolving journey.

    First, evaluate the sources. I’ve noticed that those who vilify Hubbard the most usually didn’t know him. Ditto for those who portray him as infallible. People who did get to know him well, like Sarge, generally have a high opinion of the man, but with reality. He was larger than life, but still human.

    Second, you do have some first-hand knowledge to use. You’ve read the books, and they made sense. When you applied the material, you got benefits from it. These things you can take to the bank.

    I happen to think that most of what became Scientology was already out there, with some key originations from Hubbard, and early on he did give credit to previous philosophers and to some of his own staff. Later he decided to make himself into a “brand”, and otherwise compatible people will disagree over the wisdom and ethics of that. However, even if Hubbard had done nothing more than condense the working bits from 10,000 years of human culture and make those available to us so we didn’t each have to wade through it all, that’s huge and I for one will be always grateful.

  65. martyrathbun09

    DFB, how about Evolution of a Science? I always recommend that one as a starter for scientific or logical thinking folk.

  66. martyrathbun09

    Victoria, you are beginning to sound like my man Malcolm. “if the Federal Government won’t take their (KKK) sheets off, we will.” (paraphrased)

  67. Google Ads are usually placed within context of the website they are on and the parts of your browsing history that google-anlytics knows of.

    Not everyone get the same and it is very likely that on a website with the term “scientology” often in it you will get a lot of ads for self-improvement and/or church ads, just like you will get ads for tires and car pimping on a motorist forum. Just business, nothing personal.

  68. See my reply to the original comment 🙂

  69. Thank you for your answer Victoria.

  70. Mike Hobson


    I have see no advertising content showing up on Marty’s blog pages whatsoever. I use Google Chrome and it may be blocking these.

    WordPress.Com (the host of this and many thousands of other blogs) may be using Google’s page content driven advertising system to insert targeted advertising. Anyone who has paid enough to Google for the right keywords and phrases can target adverts to a show up on pages related to those keywords / phrases wherever the hosting web site is using this system.

    No “hacking” is required for this.

    You can find Co$ adverts showing up all over the web because of this.

    Michael A. Hobson

  71. “He did some things that were wrong, made some really bad decisions, maybe he did some really illegal things too (perish the thought!). Don’t we all? ”

    No we don’t all do illigal things.

  72. Virgil Samms

    For Victoria, we got attacked here too by someone or something. We had three computers go haywire at the same time on Wednesday or Thursday. We found several trojans as well and got them handled, but I am never too sure about totally handling what the OSA perps may have inserted.

    ML Tom

  73. Concerned Citizen

    Thank you guys, it means the world to me that my comm gets accross inspite my failings. Goes to show what a great group we have here

  74. martyrathbun09

    Saint Cat Daddy speaks.

  75. I stand corrected. Yes, Seven Sisters it is.

  76. Quicksilver

    Hi In Doubt,

    Some of the original books did contain acknowledgments to various philosophers, etc. in the first few pages. Most of these have been edited out on the newer versions of the books.

    Also, LRH did mention a few quotes & anecdotes on various tapes such as ‘I remember when Joe Doakes said …’. These are quite often humourous references to illustrate a concept he is trying to convey. Similarly, in studying the tech, one is going after ‘conceptual understanding’ rather than getting too involved with numerous tiny significances which can make the subject look very complex.When reading LRH, look at it, take it apart, demo it … what is true for you is true for you.

    The subject as a whole is somewhat of a summation of various workable concepts from various religions (Vedic Hymns, etc), studies, etc from ages past. In certain cases, LRH even praises the subject of psychology for certain studies.

    The processes/commands are definitely LRH and are laid out exactly to handle a certain areas of one’s case.

    As for your condition … say you have a goal in mind – and you want to decide on the basis of various bits of data, which group, method, mode, etc., will get you to where you want to be/do/have (optimum survival). It could be something simple as buying a car, or mapping out one’s future.

    So, look it over … Inform oneself honestly … decide to support that which aligns with your goal(s) & pour on the coals.

    Although ‘ethics conditions’ have been used to hit/punish people, the original intention was to raise one’s ability & condition in life – it is a help flow rather than whack flow. The last thing a person needs is to have his/her nose rubbed in their misdeeds.

    Do well!

  77. Maybe this is a little esoteric, but this is my viewopoint: Scientology as a philosophy is designed to help people (and beings) discover truth(s). It therefore should not be surprising that others on this voyage of life have arrived at similar truths through time. Scinetology has (for me) brought about a greater insight into other peoples lives, their ethos, their pathos etc in other times, as well as the present.

    Aldous Huxley wrote a book called “The Perennial Philosophy” ( He defined “Perrinial Philosophy” as
    “the metaphysic that recognizes a divine Reality substantial to the world of things and lives and minds; the psychology that finds in the soul something similar to, or even identical with, divine Reality; the ethic that places man’s final end in the knowledge of the immanent and transcendent Ground of all being; the thing is immemorial and universal. Rudiments of the perennial philosophy may be found among the traditional lore of primitive peoples in every region of the world, and in its fully developed forms it has a place in every one of the higher religions…(The Perennial Philosophy, p. vii).”

    Even in the most cantekerous of Bach’s fugues, unity and harmony is reached, as a metaphor. Should life be any different?

  78. Marty You are right.

    Okay it is hard to do Illegal things in a country where you can buy your Canabis in a “Coffeeshop”

    You have a big point.

    I ment real big whoppers like running from the law or weilding so much power over people you invent extreme, degrading dangerous punishements.

    Never done that

  79. Anons experience with OSA and especially their internet squad is that they are pretty pathetic.

    To be honest, I don’t think a targeted distribution of a trojan, let alone creating one, is within their capabilities. But there are countless other possiblities of getting one, especially if you are on facebook and clicking stuff there.

  80. The only fine I ever got was for relieving myself in the public domain.

  81. Cat,
    that ‘Don’t we all?’, was meant more in the sense of doing wrong, generally.

    As an aside, some laws need breaking. I come from South Africa and we have a history rich with those kind of laws.

    Each to his own. Ethics is a personal thing.

  82. Correct, Padre Gato,

    I agree on reserach before buying a car. Research done, and Subaru still on top in my book.

    To this day I still think Subaru is the best built and engineered Japanese car. Go to and check out the engineering link.

    The only car to receive Motor Trend’s SUV of the year, two years in a row..

    I better stop or Marty will send me a bill for advertisement.

    Centurion (Subaru PR/IT)

  83. I see the same brain ads. It is not a popup or a seperate window.

  84. A friend has had the same problem on his computer, though I’ve never seen this on mine.

  85. FlavorsinGreen

    I noticed a couple of postings on other boards, and I wonder if something is true to this process.

    The following was posted and could it be that the Independents fall in the same trap an how can they prevent it?

    1) Scientologists (rightfully) disagree with DM and his management and sooner or later, they come in contact with people attacking Scientology and LRH

    2) The climate makes these Scientologists sooner or later doubt SCN technology and their own wins

    3) They become enemies of Scientology and LRH too.

    What are you doing to avoid this trap?

  86. “Ethics is a personal thing.”

    Yes you are right. I think my objections are mostley play up wealthy beings get away with stuff non-wealthy beings can never get away with. or other beings getting hurt by a powerfull being.

    I geuss you forgive the founder for that lecture he gave once in your Country.

  87. AlexMetheny

    Great post Fu dog!!

  88. Sarge,

    I was promoted to ASI in 1992, to replace their computer room person who left suddenly.

    I noticed too that ASI were infected with this overly expensive appearance style.

    It to me traced, to an exaggerated misimplementation of LRH’s “million dollar look” that he wrote in a despatch to ASI, but which he obviously meant in the same sense to be implemented in the same manner that he himself dressed and appeared, and NOT in the exaggerated style that Miscavige and Starkey implemented at ASI.

    thanks for the LRH history, since in the LONG term, your stories and JB’s stories of what LRH actually himself did and how he acted, are inevitably far more important than how David Miscavige overzealously, and sociopathically implemented LRH’s orders and intentions.

    Sarge and JB, your stories about LRH are hugely important and I’m sure that many Scientologists in official Scientology will benefit hearting them, and comparing their Miscavige Scientology to how LRH himself lived which you witnessed firsthand.

    I hope existing Scientologists and I’m sure they are, are reading every one of your postings about LRH.

    Thankyou both, you and JB, so much.

    Chuck Beatty

  89. EOS, that might be what I’m thinking of.
    I’ll have to look at my books. I lost some affinity for the “new” books recently. I wish I hadnt gotten rid of all my old stuff. I had boxes of the old thin green basic books many were like new.

  90. AlexMetheny

    I think Fu dog also meant that someone with the courage and cojones to blaze a trail the size that LRH did as well as other great trail blazers made some mistakes and maybe did some “bad” things along the way.

    If a person is hiding in life and not really doing much it could be a lot easier to be a “good little boy” and be the one that brings the teacher the red apple.

  91. CD, I think in this world you cant do what LRH did and travel the path he did without getting in trouble with those who hold power for their own profit and selfish gain.

    You can look at things two ways I guess. Either LRH was trying to steer clear of a serious and supressive attack that used the IRS and other means to destroy him so he could continue his research and acheive his goals, OR he was a “criminal” running from “the law”.

    I meant to ask you- on the Youtube video you linked where it shows an auditing session- what do you think of that? Why did you post it? Do you think auditing works?

    I just want you to know my viewpoint. When I watch that clip I almost cry from the sheer beauty of it. I think auditing is a sacred and beautiful thing. Even this simple “beginner” session shown in the video is wonderful. And that was a really light, quick demonstration session.

    To be able in a few minutes to help someone like that, to clear that junk out of the mind and be freer. Theres nothing else like it.

  92. Pro-tip:

    Marty, you can write to GoogleAds and ask that you want certain ads (for example Co$-ads) be blacklisted for your site cause of the contrary nature. AA sites don’t get ads for booze, for example. Google will then just put random stuff in the ad field.

    On the other hand, those ads are costing a lot of money. Money that can’t be used for other stuff like another bike for Dave.

    Pick your choice 🙂

  93. Saint Cat Daddy,
    ‘Never done that’.

    Never is an awfully long time.

    But it’s good to find the one being on earth who has only done ‘little ones’ and no big ‘whoppers’.

  94. Mockingbird6

    Regarding the question of whether LRH plagiarised or not:
    Whenever I wonder like this, I go back to the fact that someone with bad intentions would never have selected the working datums that brought me out of the mess I experienced all those years before going clear. Now whether he picked those datums out of a sea of possibilities that had already been proposed by others, or whether he made them up out of thin air, does not matter to me: the fact that he put it together and got a result is the “proof of the pudding.”

  95. FU PO regarding what you said about South Africa I agree but the USA and UK or France to a lesser extent.

    “An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.”

    – Martin Luther King, Jr.

  96. Dan,
    In May 1992, when I slipped up the org board and became ASI’s computer room person for 3 years until 1995, I got to read LRH’s traffic to ASI on his investments. His every order on investments was botched, and he finally ordered a stop to all of that crap, excepting one or two exceptions, I forget which, but another reason it would be nice to have his ASI traffic in the public domain to see how DM and Starkey misimplemented it.

    It’s be nice if David Lantz and others on the money lines, Richard Tinklenberg, had the state of mind to talk about how that greed fad spread even then due to DM’s urgings.

    The 1992-1995 ASI staff who’d lived under DM’s thumb in the 1980s, in the 1990s I saw them unbelievably suppressed in saying anything the least bit dissffected about DM.

    One time the DED ASI, Barbara Ruiz, relayed a comment from COB Asst, Shelly, to ASI, that DM was coming to do an inspection at ASI, and that he hated to see people cowering when he showed up. Barbara urged us to act friendly and natural, and not not cower when DM came into our areas! That was around 1995 or 1994.

    LRH wrote a pretty nice list of rewards, depending on each condition the ASI stats were in.

    Hugh Wilhere once commented to me that in the “bad old days” meaning I guess the 1983-86ish period, they definitely spent the money on themselves.

    It looks like the misimplementation of those ASI despatch/advices sits squarely on Broeker and DM’s shoulders, since they called the shots and everyone jumped to DM’s orders.

    And ASI staffer were still cowering whenever DM set foot at ASI, in my years there 1992-1995.

    Probably the most egregious offense I directly participated in, from ASI, is when I took all of the LRH to COB ASI despatches OFF of the ASI computer system, and put those despatches on a standalone computer, in 1994, and sent that computer to RTC so DM had that LRH traffic all to himself. Those COB ASI despatches were clearly marked “COB ASI”. And DM had no right (other than his dominating self) to order ASI traffic OFF of ASI computers and sent to him for his sole viewing.

    I was still such a Hubbard man at that time, though, that I secretly left the ASI COB traffic on the ASI computers, hidden, for only computer operations personnel to someday see, and they would NOT know to remove that material, since the order was a verbal one to me.

    DM is a cunning.


  97. Well, that’s good to hear Kraut. I just assume deep pockets could buy the best hackers. But I’m also aware of other forces at play that would want to tamper with the web toward the same old tired agenda of censorship and taxation.

    Recently the world health organization attempted to collect a tax from the internet for world medicine. Another one of those truth is stranger than fiction moments.

    Sketchy business all round.

    Facebook is the devil, haha…you’ll never see me there.
    Ahh, the world wide wiretap, in all it’s glory.

  98. Lady Minn,
    There does seem to be lots of mising parts to the Dean Stokes/Mission holders story. At least I haven’t been able to fill in a lot of the blanks.

    He definately had his own little special cult going there in Dallas and was slavishly and blindly obeyed by all. Lot’s of intrigue and mystery, whispering in the halls about bad guys that wanted to kill Dean. He geared up a few staff to be his body guards after a while. That combined with Vicki and Rick Aznaran starting up a 2-D while Dean was away at Flag made for some very strange times overall.
    Yeah, Dean used to go on about how theetie weetie the Austin Org was. I mean after ll they didn’t spend 20 hours a day writing personal books for their ED.

    In Dallas down in the basement where mimeo was there was a crew of us doing just that, getting together Deans books. He really was set to start his own religion.

    After he threw me out on my ear, and I managed to sort out my cursed freeloader debt I joined staff in Austin. Yep, they sure were theetie weetie. I was able to work a day job and have a place to live and sill be on staff or study at night.

    I think that one trip down i the limo was when Dean brought his litle group of minstrels to sing for you guys, haha. Yep, the whole meme was Dean was gonna create an entirely new civilization. The biggest favour he ever did me was getting rid of me, thanks Dean…you crazy mofo:P

    Vicki and Rick were really the white hats in my opinion. I don’t know a lot of the details of what happened later on but they were caring people and when they were heading up the mission the staff was treated well and the place was uptone. You could feel it when Dean walked into the building, he had bad vibes man:)

    The last thing anyone needs is a swaggering OT Texan that has lost his demo kit!

  99. Sarge,

    I second Tom’s post. Cannot say it better.

    Thank you for being such a good friend to LRH. It gladdens me that he at least had you and those moments of peace and pleasure that he so deserved.

    Much love,

  100. “Recently the world health organization attempted to collect a tax from the internet for world medicine.”

    Victoria were did you read that ? Do you have a link to that ?

  101. martyrathbun09

    Flavorsingreen, real simple. Stay above 2.0 on the tone scale. Folks whose aims are 2 and 3 in your comment are below 2.0 and on the tone scale, their comm is below 2.0 on the tone scale, and those who fall prey to it, must be capable of being driven below 2.0 on the tone scale for considerable periods in order to wind up at your number 3.

  102. Jim you are going into past lifes aren’t you.

  103. It was 1993, December at the FLB. Staggering amounts of money had been donated internationally, many many millions through the FSO.
    Master of Mest had ordered an obscene gift-giving extravaganza for the FSO Execs. Rolex watches, cars, chauffeurs, an orgy of food, etc. I recall vividly how stunned and uncomfortable I felt about such ostentation and waste of funds being spent on Sea Org Members. Make no mistake, I do not think that S.O. should be destitute and deprived. What I witnessed was excessive and wasteful under any conditions, and obscene to be done within the Sea Org. I was sickened and ashamed that so much was spent that came from parisioner donations. The really awful thing was that there was nobody to say that to. Any other staff who felt that way kept it to themselves.
    That is all I have to say about that.


  104. jswift

    That car is used by PAC Security.

  105. War and Peace

    Janis Grady.
    One of the original WATCH MESSENGER.

    Definition of WATCH MESSENGER ~ at LRH’s side 8 hours a day.

    Janis did this for YEARS. WOW on the stories you could tell…..

    Wow Janis welcome and please post more….

    much love,
    War and Peace

  106. FlavorsinGreen

    You might want to be alert to generalities. Looking at the internet, you will see a wide spectrum of response to information about LRH and Scientology by former Scientologists.

    When a Scientologist reads the negativity, sometimes total denial results: ah, that’s just propaganda! A bunch of lies designed to smear LRH and Scientology! All lies! All lies!

    Or a huge sense of betrayal might set in–either temporary of long-lasting. I’ve been deceived! Those rotten SOBs! I’m going to get ’em!

    But the doubts generated tend to be proportional to how well a person actually understood the subject to begin with. You will find Class 8’s who have theoretically have audited to OT8 who really did not understand. The whole subject was theory rather than reality. And his or her sense of waste and betrayal can seem extreme.

    Same can apply to a Sea Org member who was suckered into a subject he or she didn’t grasp and spent twenty or thirty years working for something they didn’t really grasp.

    I’m not a Scientologist, so don’t mistake me for an apologist here. But, I understand the subject. And I’ve read all the negativity, and went through doubts as I weighed all sides. And in the end, I’ve come down on the positive side. The support side.

    What you will find here are people who may have gone through doubts, but whose interest and certainty increase almost every day. You will find people here who are bigger supporters of Scientology now than at any time while in the formal church.

    So, be leery of generalities. Each of us is different. Each of us handles trauma and doubt differently. Each of us varies in resilience and the willingness to blame others rather than take personal responsibility.

    Reading sometimes requires understanding the author and his motives.


  107. War and Peace

    Lyman Spurlock lost MILLIONS of Church money on oil investments.
    He also was the recipient of DM’s fury subsequently.

  108. Michael,

    May I ask why, if you have come down on the support of Scientology and state that you understand it, you are not a Scientologist?

  109. Michael said:

    “So, be leery of generalities. Each of us is different. Each of us handles trauma and doubt differently. Each of us varies in resilience and the willingness to blame others rather than take personal responsibility.

    “Reading sometimes requires understanding the author and his motives.”

    I completely agree with Michael’s remarks.

    I often see “wrong indications” flying around these boards and blogs, due to our less-than-perfect communications, our anonymity, and incorrect assumptions.

    Blogs and boards serve good purposes, but they’re not perfect communication media.

    Just Me

  110. War and Peace

    Virgil ~~

    Hmmmm….3 computers down at once.
    Mcafee protection is well worth it.
    You call an 800 tel no and pay approx $80 on a credit card they will hack into (remotely access your computer) and clean all trojans, viruses, worms, spy ware and so on and then even install Mcafee protection.
    There is also a free Mcafee scan Google the word MCAFEE.
    Some folk get so frustrated with an infected computer that they throw it out.



    First, you should understand that deleting files, and even
    formatting your hard drive, are not sufficient. Both processes
    really just remove the information the hard drive needs to find the
    data, not the data itself. Deleted files can be undeleted and
    formatted hard drives can be recovered. PIs in additional to
    searching garbage, seek out old hard drives.

    To be sure that your data is removed beyond all practical ability
    to recover it, you should use a wiping or erasing utility. These
    tools overwrite every sector of the hard drive with binary 1’s and
    0’s. Those that meet government security standards even overwrite
    each sector multiple times for added protection. Many utilities (FREE)
    are available on line.

    Wipe — don’t just delete — your defunct computer files, and
    periodically wipe the free space on your hard drive. Definition
    of WIPE is covered in first paragraph.

    Throwing out a previously used computer/hard drive, giving it to
    GOODWILL thinking files are deleted can be deadly. All deleted files can be revived.

    It is a well known ploy in computer circles that computers are deliberately infiltrated and made useless, so that they are thrown out …….and then the Private Investigators grab the hard drive.

    ML to you and Linda

  111. martyrathbun09

    W and P, thanks for the advice.

  112. Pingback: Top Posts —

  113. A couple I like:


    “Economy is [ital]not[end ital] a sign of being broke. It’s a sign of increasing prosperity. Without curtailed and watched spending you [ital]never[end ital] have prosperity.”


    HCO PL 4 Mar 65 Issue I

    “You see,, by just an orderly scheduling of payments (as per dateline paying) and being prudent in setting big amounts owing but not paid aside, an org can move up to present time.

    “I know of no other way of getting an org’s finances (or a pc) to present time except by pulling off the things which hold him in the past.

    “An org is far more aware and far saner if it’s in present time. Just like preclears. Hence, dateline paying and the Reserved Payment Account.”

    Personally, I just love how reges when asked about LRH policy on finances always say, “Oh, that’s THIRD dynamic policy, it doesn’t apply to the FIRST dynamic. Let me show you this reference where LRH says a reg should help someone get a loan to secure services.” Let’s see, one reference about loans, dozens about operating on cash. Hmm.

    One time just after finishing The Dynamics of Money Life Improvement Course, I was approached by an IAS reg for a dono and I said LRH says don’t borrow in this course I just did. She said, I kid you not, “Well, that just ‘basic’ data.” Yes Bridgette Yavarsky, I’m talking about you.

  114. Obnosis,

    My first boss when I routed out of the Sea Org, he was an ex Gold Base staffer of the late 1980s, he’d gotten a business going, and I worked for him as my first job out of the Sea Org. I loved the work.

    I advised my boss, I pulled out OEC 3 right off his shelf and showed him the finance policy saying DON’T SPEND MORE THAN YOU MAKE. And other policies saying that org must never do that.

    I pointed out that Bridgette Yavarsky and other IAS Regs (I knew this from hearing it from David Bloomberg and Leslie Potter) had gotten in trouble for over regging people.

    Bridgette and her cohort came back a couple times, and I couldn’t restrain myself from overhearing how they bore down on my ex Sea Org Scientology boss, and he could only hold up so much.

    He held them off two visits, but sometime when I was not there, they finally got him for another $5,000.

    The escalating or accumulating IAS donations bump the Scientologist donating up and up the Patron statuses.

    Before I moved out of LA, to make my final break with the official Scientology community, I asked my boss how much was he in debt.

    It was about $110,000. I asked him how much had he donated to IAS up to that point.

    It was something like $110,000.

    I didn’t have to say it to him, but his debt was IAS overregging.

    I didn’t report it, though, I just left Scientology behind.

    Too bad there isn’t a way to get that IAS money back.

    LRH wouldn’t let anyone overreg him against his finance policy for a second!

  115. Synthia,

    Sure you can ask me. I’m pretty comfortable with anything you want to throw at me.

    Mostly a matter of choice. I choose who I am and what I will be. I don’t let others define me.

    Just because I’ve studied chemistry doesn’t make me a chemist. Just because I’ve studied Buddhism doesn’t make me a Buddhist. Just because I can build a house doesn’t make me a carpenter, electrician, plumber or mason.

    To know and understand is not the same as to be. To be should be a conscious choice. And I choose to be an exterior viewpoint here.

    Exterior does not mean uninvolved, it just means exterior. It means pan-determined. It means not being biased.

    And being exterior does not mean being unwilling to help. I just remain free to choose which help I will give without being coerced.


  116. No Cat, you not getting me at all.

    It’s not about forgiveness. It’s about trying to understand why he did what he did. Not agree; not disagree just understand.

    Our view is different –
    You are coming from a view of all the wrongnesses and injustices and are intent on preventing that from reoccurring. I can both understand and support that.
    I, on the other hand, have personal experience of the great value of this man’s life work and how, if used correctly, compassionately and ethically it can truly transform man.

    Somewhere between these two views lies the truth.


  117. Thanks so much for your personal stories about LRH! It’s soooooo cool to hear truth!

  118. Argh – hopefully this won’t be the third time this shows up. Swampland radio internet at its finest…
    I’ve been working over the internet for 10 years now. Watch closely and uncheck installing any toolbars. I use NONE.
    Free cleaner: (you can wipe stuff too)
    Antivirus protection also free and user-friendly:
    Use other online virus scanners/cleaners just for extra assurance.
    I don’t see any ads on this blog ever.

  119. DFB because it was relevant and I see that it works notwithstanding that other practises might have too,but the disclaimer stays on the meter preferably.

  120. If their was a specific goal for the regging and the money was misallocated you might have a case especcially if you donated to a charity.

    If you can prove you are misled you have a very strong case.

  121. Flavor, you’re postulating that I lose my ability to differentiate by taking actions to protect Scientology. Why would I or others do that when things are looking better and better. More differentiation is happening, not less. “Further up and further in”. -Aslan

    When I made my announcement a few months ago, I didn’t know when it was posted because I was driving. But I actually did know when because this OT ability along the lines of feeling smarter than ever, like razor sharp intellect which had the potential to cut to the core of anything, washed over me for a solid hour. Calm happiness was mixed with it too. Later I found out my profile went up on Steve’s site at that time. So that’s my take on why that wouldn’t happen. I don’t think your question is worthy of such a lengthy response but I’m in a typing mood so there it is.

  122. Very nice Sarge.

  123. In Doubt,

    A couple of points: Scientology as a subject and technology is not LRH. Two different things. Studying LRH’s life is not studying Scientology. Whether LRH was the world’s greatest con man or not is irrelevant. Whether he stole ideas from others is irrelevant. Whether he was a Saint and never did a mean or dishonorable thing is irrelevant.

    What is relevant is whether you find truth in the subject. What is relevant is whether you can get a result by applying the information you learn studying Scientology and Dianetics.

    And from those results you will either learn to admire or detest the author.

    Second point: The value of any datum rests in the evaluation of the evaluator. A hundred people evaluating a large group of data will come to a hundred different conclusions. Their conclusions will cover a wide range, mostly colored by the “values” and experiences each brings to the table.

    So, whatever “facts” you encounter will be colored by you and by the author of those “facts.”

    An individual is a complex amalgam of opinions, considerations, behaviors, ideas, intentions, and on and on. Good and bad. Complex. And you can find what you’re looking for in pretty much anyone if you look hard enough.

    So, you kind of have to ask yourself what you’re looking for. If you want to find good, you’ll find good. If you want to find bad, you’ll find bad.

    In the end, the data you find depends on how you evaluate it. For each of us, the importance of a datum is the importance you assign it. Data evaluation depends more on the evaluator than the data.


  124. martyrathbun09

    Michael, very well put. Thanks for the clear articulation of these thoughts.

  125. thecountesskrak


    The Cof$ is getting so desperate for public they posted the below on Actors Access looking for actors to cast as “public” for the LV Idle Org, lol:

    “Monday, May. 24, 2010, 5:14 PM Pacific

    Casting Director: Marie Bystrom
    Interview Dates: 25 May 2010
    Shoot/Start Date: 25 May 2010
    Pay Rate: $60-$100 depending on hours on set
    Location: Las Vegas




    We are shooting an in-house video for the Church of Scientology. We are showing a Scientology organization. This specific shoot takes place in Las Vegas.

    Male/Female of any ethnicity, 18-45 years old. Shooting in Las Vegas Tues 25 May. No auditions, direct bookings.
    Rate is $60-100 depending on hours on set.”

  126. OMFG!!!

  127. Does any independent want a job? It would be a hoot to have someone there documenting the staged activities. Even showing this ad says it all.

  128. Prometheus

    We had problems with Trojans infecting our machine, probably from links posted here, though I don’t think it will stop us from surfing.

  129. Prometheus

    A couple of comments on the Trojans that seem to be aflicting some, and the proper way to dispose of a disk drive.
    Use at least one virus protection software (I use two, Trend Anti-virus and Malwarebytes both available on-line basic versions are free, and keep them updated)
    If you dispose of your conputer the ONLY way to really make sure your data is safe is to DRILL HOLES through the disk drive, four or five is sufficient.

  130. marty,
    OK. what about some contributions? you’re in the trenches and benefitning the group. let me know.

  131. Pingback: Montrose and Telluride: two views on Piñon Ridge uranium mill | dress up bolg

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