Miscavige’s annihilation of Tom Cruise (part one)

Every picture tells a story, don't it?

In a letter to the St Petersburg Times dated 20 June, 2009 David Miscavige promised to deliver evidence that would cause the annihilation of Mike Rinder, Amy Scobee, Tom Devocht and I.  Nearly a year, and several million dollars  in investigator fees later, Mr. Miscavige has failed to deliver on that promise. Instead, he has been busily carrying on with the insidious, and devilishly effective, annihilation of his “friend” Tom Cruise.

First, some truths from a prominent and powerful man Miscavige has also been attempting to annihilate post-humously for a couple decades now:

Now let’s say you want to stop something You want to stop something — give it things. Give it lots of matter. And the more matter you give it, the slower it will operate. And you want to stop it dead in its tracks, just empty the dump trucks on it. It’ll stop. Just give it things. Give it things that it considers quite desirable — gold watches and … and Cadillacs and mink coats and … The more you give on this, why, the uh…more upsetting it is to this person. And they…they KNOW they want to have these things, they know that, because that’s right, it says right there on Agreement One: “I want to have the MEST universe.” And it…they say they want things — but the more they get of them, the unhappier they get.

And if you want to just get rid of somebody, just completely, start giving them a lot of presents. You’ll  just…you’ll just — bye-bye. You have to exaggerate it quite a bit, but if you were handy at making things so that every…every 15 or 20 minutes, why, they could receive another present, they…they would either run away utterly or die in their tracks.

That’s one of the biggest mistakes that..that women make — or men make — in interpersonal relationships. There’s good and adequate reason for that, by the way…

…And that’s completely contrary to the way the MEST universe is supposed to run. You’re told very carefully, “Now look: if you’re a success, you get an awful lot of stuff. And you have all these things. And you can have these big beautiful homes and you can have all this way, and you can have all that way, and you can be very happy then.”  And actually you can persist in that…you can persist in that delusion, because it’s a completely backwards modus operandi and it doesn’t fit and it won’t work out that way at all. You could persist in that to kid yourself in order to keep yourself in action. But the second you cease to know it’s a pretense, you get in the trap of it.

You actually have to be in a position like this sometimes to have a superfluidity of MEST to find out what it does to you. It’s just fabulous what a lot of MEST can do to you. It makes an awful “MEST” out of you.

Now, these things are then related. And where you see these things cropping up as manias, where you see havingness mounting up and the MEST stacking up all over the place and getting higher and higher and higher, and that is more or less your object and modus operandi, you’re going to get a stop, and where you get stops, you’re going to get destruction. And where you get destruction and stop and so forth, there’s going to be more matter there. 

– L. Ron Hubbard, PDC lecture “Cycles of Action”

Now, back to the photo that speaks a thousand words, the three motorcycles beautifully arrayed in front of Miscavige’s $70 million palace.  The Harley in the middle is Dave’s. The two bikes flanking it are Tom’s. What are they doing posing in front of Dave’s palace?

Well, Dave had Sea Org craftsmen and craftswomen spend fifty to seventy-five hours fully disassembling his own motorbike and giving it a custom paint job of a quality perhaps unattainable (and at least prohibitively expensive) by outside labor.  When Tom saw Dave’s bike he was so impressed it gave Dave a bright idea in forwarding his calculated plan to corrupt, stop and destroy Tom.  Dave summonsed his underpaid and over-worked Sea Org labor crew to put in another fifty to seventy-five hours on each of  Tom’s two bikes. 

One-hundred and fifty to two-hundred and twenty-five hours of skilled, albeit slave, labor later – voila, another in a series of untold MEST gifts heaped upon a man who once really did have everything, but who under Dave’s program, would soon have too much.

PS: in the event anyone doubts these are Tom’s bikes:

300 responses to “Miscavige’s annihilation of Tom Cruise (part one)

  1. Impartial English Girl

    Odd. Really odd. Isn’t there ANYONE around Tom Cruise who can convince him of the sheer lunacy of all this? Not even his wife? The whole thing gets more bizarre by the day. There was a point, to me anyway, where it would have been funny if it wasn’t so sad and true. But now it’s not even remotely amusing, on any level. I even find myself pitying Tom Cruise at times.

    And why aren’t the police doing anything (unless I’m just ignorant and they ARE looking into it). I’m glad we have the Internet these days, so that truth (however horrible) can be shared and spread. Big love to you Mr. Rathbun. x

  2. The annihilation of his “friend” is truly evil, however, Tom Cruise is just as responsible. He needs to come to his senses and come clean.

    How dare he allow this? In fact, I dare say, he is more responible the DM.

  3. I meant to say, “more responsible than DM”…I have to get better at checking typos before I press “submit”. 🙂

  4. jim cherkas

    Scientology celebs are no better than wog celebs look at travoltas toys like his airplane etc..

  5. I dare say I really do not know who is the bigger villian in this piece.

    I assume these hard working, dedicated SO members were not paid for their labor. Were they thanked? Taken out to a swanky restaurant? Given a day off?

    The fact that Tom Cruise, who is worth a fortune, (and even if he wasn’t) would think it okay to do this in his own religion shows a lack of character.

  6. Jim,

    By the time you get on OT VII, you had better be more enlightened than “wog” celeberities (and btw, that term is nasty).

    There is NO EXCUSE. There are other non-Scn celebs that would have found that objectionable.

  7. The more I read those posts the less I can understand DM or those SO members doing that as described above.
    DM and Tom are very poor souls.
    And those that follow them are very misinformed and fooled.
    Thats the only logic that makes any sense for me. I think that they are way beyond our reach to help them.

  8. All hail our most beloved Pope. Virtuous, humble and unaffected; COB, we salute you. You are the epitomy of The Code of a Scientologist and, for that, for the shining example you set of the effectiveness and wisdom of Scientology, I kneel before you. We truly are in the best hands to clear the 6,822,200,000 people of this planet, quickly and effectively. (I realise my puny mind is incapable of grasping how Tom’s motorcycle paint jobs have helped in this effort, but who am I to judge).

    Your eternal servant,

  9. TC,
    How do you live with yourself? Knowing that such gifts came from the labor of Sea Org Members?
    It has finally come; you disgust me when once I was a great admirer of yours. I can see that you are now no better than the Master of Mest. Sad.

    Master of Mest: it is so comforting to see that you have such a greandiose place to live, much much grander than anything LRH ever lived in. While I had a mere few square feet within a very small room shared with 3 other women and was forced to throw or give away my personal mest when someone else considered that I had “too much personal mest”. You are a brute, a fraud, a thief and a liar and your days are numbered, enjoy them while you can. I am doing all I can to see that you pay, dearly. I and other of LRH’s friends are coming for you. I spit on you and your “friend” Tom Cruise. You deserve each other.
    Have a nice day.

    Eileen Clark
    Loyal to LRH, Always

  10. Let’s review a little basic Scientology here (from the PTS Rundown):

    “The theory is that SPs are SPs because they deny Havingness and enforce unwanted Havingness. They also deny doingness and enforce unwanted doingness. They also deny beingness and enforce unwanted beingness. This is why we have never before been able to run Subjective Havingness. It collided with SPs, Overts, and Withholds on them. ” – LRH

    Gentlemen, start your E-Meters…

  11. David Miscavige, Tom Cruise: no motorcycle will ever make you taller.

    On the other hand, Yoda is a giant:)

    Marty, Thank you for the appropriate excerpt from LRH.

  12. Isn’t there something in the law about being a party to something unlawful? If TC knew and did nothing about misuse of parishioner donations, doesn’t that make him an interested party?

    Just asking.


  13. Chris Black

    Jeepers! That’s all I can say, jeepers!

    Bank is illogical, but jeepers!

  14. Tom Cruise has zero Credibility on the net. Well sat least by people that have their eyes open.

  15. There are’t enough auditors in the orgs, there aren’t any mgmt staff to do evals on orgs, but DM has SO members painting his motorcycles. Awesome. He should take his fat salary and pay for the work! And to think I got shit for buying a starbucks on a recruit tour with tour funds. This shit pisses me off.

    I consider myself one of the biggest TC fans in the world. I think he’s awesome. And as such, it’s easy to explain away certain things. Or at least give the benefit of the doubt. Like, does he REALIZE that everyone is putting on a show when he is at Int? Does he KNOW that the Int staff do not all get paid like DM? Has he SEEN how DM treats people? Does he WONDER why DM has $5,000 suits while SO members are literally lucky if they get their 50.00 per week. SO auditors at PAC can hardly get new shoes, or shirts when the elbows get holes in them, LITERALLY. Couldn’t it be that everyone puts on such a show for him, that he’s not really “in on it”, Truman Show style? I’d love to know more.

    I’d LOVE to know how a guy like Mike Doven got axed. He worked for Tom forever! Is there something worth knowing there??

    Anyway, obviously Tom looks like a huge sucker, but I’m not prepared to put him in the same boat as DM. After all, Tom has earned what he has. He didn’t have to steal it.

    Funny side note: when I watched Magnolia and saw the scene where Tom is screaming at one of his staff on a cell phone and the staff memebe says “What do you want me to do?” and Tom SCREAMS “I WANT YOU TO DO YOUR FUCKING JOB!!!” I laughed and said to a non-SCN friend I was with “Thats funny! That’s something a Scientologist would say!”. At the time, I was kind of proud of that. The fact that he said it so well showed that he was a real Scientologist. Shows you what kind of Scientology I was raised around.

  16. This is so perverse. I am sickened at how SO members are being taken advantage of, how public money is being squandered. That is DM’s home!?!! Vile reptilian!

  17. Mockingbird6

    Since Scientology is a charitable enterprise, and since the IAS is a charitable enterprise, aren’t they required to post their accounts somewhere so the members can see where the money goes?

  18. Mike Hobson

    Travolta does not have $50/week (if they are lucky) Sea Org members painting his airplanes or doing his home renovations.

    Michael A. Hobson

  19. One wonders how much of Miscavige’s personal fortune (which must be in the millions by now) he has donated to the IAS, SuperPower, and Ideal Orgs?

  20. “The crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success as a preparation for his future career.”

    – Albert Einstein

  21. Mike Hobson


    Travolta does *NOT* have $50/week (if they are lucky) Sea Org members painting his airplanes or doing his home renovations.

    There is nothing wrong with JT owning jet aircraft or TC owning expensive Harley-Davidsons, that I can see . Neither do I see anything wrong with any other celebrity enjoying the fruits of their labor.

    There is everything wrong with T.C. getting all sorts of free service from Sea Org slave labor.

    Michael A. Hobson

  22. As much as we always laugh at the checkstand gossip magazines about how unreal it all sounds, I do think where there is smoke there is fire. Haven’t you seen all the headlines and stories printed about Tom controlling Katie and the church controlling her? She had no idea what she was getting herself into, and being a very green scn, she has no idea how to even fight back using the tech in a sane way. There is a point where you can use source and people eventually stop and can’t fight you anymore. The problem with DM, is he won’t stick around long enough to have a truthful conversation about source to even be backed into a corner.

  23. There’s nothing wrong with JT having an airplane. He just truly loves to fly, I don’t see the problem.

    I took a few flying lessons myself at Dal Jet in Dallas, JT used to hanger one of his planes there… all the guys who worked there said he was a really nice guy.

    I’d have a plane if I could afford one, it’s no sin.

    JT as far as I know hasn’t done any of the completely obnoxious stuff that TC has. I doubt JT would even want to get very close to DM.

    I seriously doubt JT would let SO members paint his jet and offer no exchange to them. Actually JT might see it as kind of weird that SO members would paint his plane, because it IS!

    I noticed TC’s lawyer seems to have calmed down a bit now that he sees his client has been completely duped.

    Maybe he could sue Micavige and in discovery some of the laundered money might be tracked down?

    The SO members that testify against Miscavige should also request to be reimbursed for the painting of said motocycles.

    I’d like to see a class action suit and I’d like to see all this laundered money recovered and Daves “assets” liquidated.

    Then we could take that considerable amount of money and at least START with those people who lost family members due to neglect and downright malice on the inside. Money won’t cure anything but it could help with some of the children who have been left with no parents.

  24. Is it just me or is Dave’s bigger than Tom’s?
    Gift or no gift the pecking order is quite clear
    (or is that ‘pecker’ order).

  25. PS
    Hmmmm Marty.
    Seems DM isn’t the only one who able to unearth ‘secret documents hidden in the attic’ 😉

  26. rory medford

    mark my words … on a very very reliable source this is the year many things will come tumbling down for DM… & the funny part of it is.. DM KNOWS its coming they might find him in a bunker just like Sadam Hussein

  27. Tom Cruise needs to man up and step away from this violent regime up top Scientology to at least salvage what’s left of his faultering career. I suggest people boycott his next movie until he does so. It is his responsibility as a major public figure to speak out against this type of physical, mental, and emotional violence by Miscavige. If he won’t do it, then he’s just as responsible for covering up such heinous crimes. Be a man Tom, step up to the plate, it’s time you denounce this type of behavior once and for all.

  28. I assume that Tom paid his federal taxes on that “gift.”

  29. Gawd, at the end of the day I would ask both TC and DM how many people have you truly helped today?

  30. crashingupwards

    Marty, this is an interesting angle on the seduction of Tom Cruise. I have to believe Tom Cruise’s EGO is off the charts and he must be sucking and slurping up all this attention from DM. Your right its a trap. But one which Cruise apparently rushed into. I still think Cruise needs to experience the “dark night of the soul” before he actually begins to climb out of the mess he is in. That might be his work for another lifetime. He is in deep.

    Overall, this motorcycle picture and the mansion drives home a major point to me: This is not the Scientology I knew and this is not Scientology. Period.

    After all these expose’s, anyone who gives another cent to IAS or any fundraising is a complete fool/sucker/status seeker/ and as lost as DM and Cruise.

  31. Quicksilver

    Well, there are a couple things that really burn me on this:

    1) That low payed church staff would be used to dump frivolous gifts on Tom

    2) That David Miscavage lives such a lavish lifestyle while S.O. & org/mission staff bust their butts to give Man a bit of freedom. This is aside from the fact that my wife & I have donated about $500,000+ and can’t afford to even think about auditing/courses

    3) The embarrassment of having the Scientology symbol on the front of a personal residence … yes, I’m sure it was classed as a ‘necessary business expense’ for tax purposes … sheesh

    It’s not like me to wish ill will on anyone at all, but a blubbering Jim Baker scenario would sure seem just.

  32. Marty,f

    I can’t have that anymore.
    I disseminated to 1000d’s of people, regged millions for the orgs, was dissmissed from staff after having produced one highest ever after the other on Gi and having put it in a total new range and was presented with a freeloader bill that I fool paid. My own life blood that I lost in those years is in that mest that those pictures represent.
    I never understood why Tom Cruise played a vampir……..
    Sucking theta out of others….
    Makes sense.

  33. martyrathbun09

    Jeff, what a question. You are brilliant man.

  34. martyrathbun09

    Mike Hobson, I added the word “not” in there, assuming you inadvertently omitted it.

  35. martyrathbun09

    Leonore, no, it is his office.

  36. In all sincerity that is a waste of saliva.
    Samantha Domingo
    Loyal to LRH, always

  37. Quicksilver


    I missed another post above from Marty while I was posting saying this is his office, not his residence. Well, what can I say … nice office.

    I cringe at the thought of what his residence looks like.

  38. Yea, motorcycles. DM is corrupt a bit.

    What intrigues me in the photo is the windows.

    Why do they look like they are fake, and bulletproof? It doesnt look like window coverings.

    How sinister that a office building is built that seems to acknowledge that the outside is dangerous and unconfrontable. That sends the message that what goes on in it is secret and needs to be hidden.

    Is this just the facade covering the entrance to secret underground areas?

    That is my impression. Tunnels and chambers back into the moutains behind it.

    DM is more sinister than misusing parishioners money for some toy motorcycles….

  39. martyrathbun09

    Dave, Good eye. Yes, the windows are bullet proof – subject of a later article.

  40. Probably not a dime! He is so busy doing everybody else’s job, that to him, that is his contribution above and beyond!

    I just got done reading this weekend both Amy and Marc’s books. I think one of the most sickest things I got from both of them was running people over with cars at the order of DM, and then chasing people through the night on motorcycles around the base, like deers in headlights. I don’t even think Hitler stooped this low on the scale of humanity.

  41. Watching Eyes

    Is this where the money for the Super Power building went? Didn’t Laurie Webster used to say in her letters that they were 70 million short? Hmm, wonder why.

  42. It was more of a hole than a bunker

  43. The bunker under Cruise’s home no doubt!

  44. War and Peace

    Marty, what a photograph.
    DM’s palace built on Sea Org Blood, Sweat, Tears and Sadistic Abuse.

    The Financial irregularities :
    First the policy when an entity has Tax Exemption.
    The basic prohibition against inurement is found in the Code and is further refined in related regulations. Code §501(c)(3) grants a tax exemption only if “no part of the net earnings of [the organization] inure to the benefit of any, private shareholder or individual * * *.” While nonprofit organizations do not generally have shareholders, applicable regulations explain what the code section means. A “private shareholder or individual” is defined to mean “persons who having a personal and private interest in the activities of the organization.” Treas. Reg. §1.501(a) -1(e). This definition is broad enough to include anyone who, upon later examination, appears to have not had and arms-length relationship wilt the organization [..]

    In simple language a Cardinal or head of Church cannot rake in donations and spent the loot enhancing or purchasing a private yacht.

    Sea Org labor is used for personal benefit to DM and DM”s buddy Tom Cruise in violation of the 501c3 status ~
    David Miscavige is recklessly endangering the 501c3 status by daily, weekly monthly GROSS Financial Irregularities.

    SO members did not sign a contract to pimp cars for DM or paint Tom Cruise’s motorbike.

    SO members at Gold base suffered SLEEP DEPRIVATION to plant wheat grass and flowers to make the landscape outside Tom’s villa look aesthetic.
    “In the weeks before [Cruise’s]arrival, the base was a hive of activity as the five hundred or so Sea Org disciples painted, pruned, primped, and cleaned the gardens and buildings so that it was in pristine condition for his arrival.” Cruise was housed in a “plush guest bungalow” and given his own chef and butler, SO member Sinar Parman for the duration of his stay.”
    At Tom Cruise’s wedding to Nicole Kidman, “the event was choreographed and orchestrated by Miscavige, who arranged for two Scientology chefs and other Sea Org members  to cater and care for the newlyweds and their guests.”  
    Miscavige’s wedding gift to Cruise and Kidman: “A team of twenty Sea Org members  was set to work digging, hoeing, and planting wheat grass and wildflower seed near the Cruises’ bungalow” after Miscavige learned of the “couple’s fantasy of running through a meadow of wildflowers together.” [legal affidavit testifying to this from Karen Pressley] 
    “At Gold, in addition to their VIP bungalow and personal chef and butler, Tom had two motorcycles, a Mercedes convertible, and a motor home garaged in the compound, while Nicole had her own private garden. When Tom and Nicole wanted to play tennis, Sea Org members built them a private court.” 
    “Miscavige had a gym built for himself and Tom at Gold, which could be used only by senior executives and only when the actor was not around.” David Miscavige’s father, Ronnie Miscavige, estimated the cost at $150,000. 
    DM has shipped Tom regular gifts of fine wine, but on at least one occasion he sent an SO member with a picnic hamper to Tom’s Gulfstream jet for his enjoyment.” 
    etcetera., etcetera, etcetra……

    TRADE OFF ????

    a)On behalf of Scientology, Tom Cruise has met with United States government officials to protest the treatment of Scientology is European states such as Germany and France, specifically, in 2003, Cruise met with the then Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and Scooter Libby on separate occasions.
    b) Tom Cruise goes to DC to lobby for Government funding $$$ for Study Techinto schools.

    Does Washington DC know the personal and private favors Tom Cruise gets to lobby for Scientology?

  45. “Wickedness sucks in the greater part of its own venom, and poisons itself therewith.”

    – Michel de Montaigne

  46. You have a point.

  47. Why would DM donate to those things, anyway? Afterall, he IS those things!

  48. This paint and detailing must be part of the ecclesiastic duties for the master. This is horrible. How can Tom Cruise be an accomplice to these crime of slavery? DM is this church work ??? you are a criminal

  49. We must rapidly begin the shift from a “thing-oriented” society to a “person-oriented” society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.

    – Martin Luther King, Jr.

  50. Mockingbird6, I asked that question many times. Got one response, what don’t you trust those running the church ?

  51. Obviously, Miscavige has Cruise convinced that he is the 3rd coming of Christ.

    Miscavige, of course, being the 2nd.

  52. I’m with you Sam. Not worth spit.

  53. Albert would spin in his grave if he knew about the student loan (read indentured slave) scam too.

  54. Sam,
    I would take the six-cylinder Honda over the Harley. But that ‘s just me. So, Tom’s is ‘bigger’ than Dave’s.

  55. Does anyone know how much money Tom has given to the church? I suspect that DM does not put beans into a project (like presents or parties for TC) without getting a lot more beans back. I’m just saying maybe we need to have more data before judging TC. Celebrity can be a golden cage, built of the finest MEST of course. Would you really say no if someone offered it? It is a brilliant trap.

  56. I’m with you

  57. Synthia –

    I agree and the “nasty”. The intent behind “wog” has become as rude, insulting and prejudiced as “fag” or any number of other derogatorily aimed labels.

  58. The top picture really tells a lot.

    The message I get is: Here is the secret RTC headquarter run by motorcycle snobs who don’t give a fuck about the subject or LRH but sure love cash, fast overdone vehicles and lavish lifestyles at the cost of others who have given all their lives, disconnected family, went into severe debts, worked for less than slaves, stayed up countless days and nights, worked, worked, worked and some of them died for the cause.

    I feel so sick looking at these pictures.

  59. Marty,
    I think this is a truly brilliant juxtaposition of posts. First, the wonderful free theta of Sarge’s ‘sudden’ (which we love!) and now the MEST of Mestcavige.

    Great excerpt from the PDC’s. SOOOO apropos.

  60. His office????? then where does he lives????

  61. yes I want to see where my $250,000.00 went

  62. Cured Robot

    The only thing missing in this photo is: Where is DM’s Tammy Baker?

  63. First –

    “This shit pisses me off.”

    I think that’s gotta be one of the most concise and down to earth summations of DM’s reign.

  64. Mark Fisher

    I love this quote from a recent interview given by Amy Scobee regarding Tom Cruise. I had not thought of this before and I agree with what she says here::

    “Personally, I do not have much respect for Tom at all for a few very important reasons. First of all, I think he has abused his “power” as a well-known figure to gain special favors from Scientology. I know of several examples of this, including the fact that I was personally assigned to select his personal entourage, which had nothing to do with my job at the time. I was a full-time staff member in the Sea Organization. I did not get paid for that service, I did not get thanked for that service. I was at the International Management base in Hemet when he came to do Scientology services for an extended period of time. The staff members there were not set up to service a celebrity at that property. People were pulled off their own jobs to cater to him. I knew of people [Sea org members] doing his laundry, supervising him in the course room, supervising his counseling, the music studio conference room was converted to a course room for him, many staff members were utilized to establish audio-visual facilities in his home. Many staff members had to stay up day and night, because on the 500 acre property there were some brown patches on the lawns — it’s in the middle of the desert in Hemet. Those brown patches could be seen by helicopter per David Miscavige, and Cruise was going to arrive via helicopter, so we laid sod for days — night and day.

    The other factor is that Tom Cruise has proclaimed David Miscavige to be a “LEADER OF LEADERS” and announced to all Scientologists attending the International Association of Scientologists Event in 2004 that David Miscavige was the best leader and said that he should know “because I’ve met them ALL.” That’s an arrogant statement, plus David Miscavige viciously beats his staff members. So to give Miscavige all this praise puts in concrete to Scientology followers to listen to this “leader” who has NO BUSINESS being in that position because he’s DANGEROUS.” – Amy Scobee Interview in Popeater.

    Thanks for sharing this with us Marty. I am sure there is much more to come.

  65. Why are the double triangles positioned above an illuminati pyramid? Or was DM’s inspiration straight off the dollar bill itself?
    Or is it just a strategically positioned hanging lamp?

    Dave Adams that was my first thought also when I saw how backed up to that hill the building is.

    I guess if you’re DM and not willing to so much as do the purif, you need an extra study bomb shelter.

  66. Wow. Little Davie, you get to be a MEST hero with other people’s money. And you get to use your “SO slaves” to be a big shot with your “friends.”

    At least TC achieved his position of power legitimately. He exchanged with his audience. And if 90% of the Scn public have been fooled in the past by your antics, I can’t really sit here and blame him for falling for them too. I’ve been on OTVII. I know how much ass you need to kiss to stay on the level. So I can’t blame him for at least wanting to be on your good side while he tries to go free.

    But let me say one more thing (and Sarge, I think I’m getting sudden here too)… Look, Dave, apparently I’m just as trained an auditor as you. I don’t think I would know how to steer this ship. It’s a huge job. So, I’m gonna tell you that from my viewpoint, I don’t think you have a f*&% of a clue what you’re doing. This ship is sinking and you’re taking us “online, upstat, Scientologists and more importantly, amazingly dedicated and hard working org staff and SO members” down with it. We are so far from the Ideal Scene and if you want to check out “Third Dynamic De-aberration” and “Group Sanity” in a new unit of time, that might give you a clue as to what’s wrong. Sure opened my eyes. I might respect you more (which wouldn’t be hard since I don’t respect you at all right now) if you would just own up to the fact that you don’t even know what hat you’re supposed to be wearing.

    And one last thing–my 2-d and I have donated over $250,00 (not including probably $500 grand for auditing). Had I known I was paying for your fancy ride and your lavish office…well, geez, I might have thought twice. I’m done. Your hand is out of our bank account.

  67. Jack,

    That was not subservient enough. You will be flogged at dawn.

  68. Jeff,

    I never would have thought of that…you ARE brilliant. Only months ago I was on post as the IAS Membership Officer. We, of course, had many. many fundraisers at our org and SO MANY TIMES the staff were the ones that really pulled it off dono wise. We had so many Patrons on staff. They were, of course, only able to become Patron because they had major moonlights which, of course, was required as servicing the public became secondary in many respects.

    So, Miscavige, where’s your last dollar going to the cause? Where’s your ultimate stretch to just make it go right for the cause? Where’s your sacrifice?

    Unfortunately for you, you will pay the ultimate price for your unwillingness to do what you have demanded of others. Really, how do you sleep at night?

  69. Ashton Traydrill

    I wanted to point out that not one person who had been “appointed for life” is still on post. At the end of the day these were just people. So too is little dave. What he has done and continues to do is no less than a betrayal of magnitude on the whole track.

    One only needs to look over HCOPL Group Sanity under the section on hatting. LRH says criminal or antisocial conduct occurs where there is no hat. Then he says who isn’t trained on his post and hatted? and you can answer who is causing the trouble.

    There simply is no hat for the chairman of RTC. That’s an organization that was supposed to be the super Qual of Scientology. In order to hold that hat, a person would have to be a highly trained and apprenticed auditor and C/S as well as an OEC / FEBC with a record of successful application. From what I understand, dave is none of these. How could he possibly wear that hat?

    Then again, that “hat” somehow morphed into the guy running all of Scientology. There’s certainly no hat for that other than LRH’s and dave is just another pretender in that area. He tries to be” Source 2.0″ by repackaging LRH’s work and discovering “Lost Tech” (they use capital letters in the promo).

    All I can say is, “We’re not buying it anymore.” We’ve had our own wake-up call and the nightmare is over. Arbitraries removed is really arbitraries installed. And if we take what you say as the opposite, we’re right on track.

    At the end of the day, you’re basically good just like the rest of us and you certainly must have wanted your withholds uncovered because you told us to study the Basics. We did and found you out. It’s right on the Chart of Human Evaluation in the 1.1 to 2.0 area.

    As Pete Townsend said, we won’t be fooled again.



  70. Rory,

    Any more tidbits you can throw into that bombshell you just laid there? Can you expound at all?

  71. Freedom Fighter

    Victoria, it’s the Dianetics triangle, but I know what you mean. I had the same impression about the RTC logo — very Illuminati-like. I also think the building is reminiscent of the Third Reich — mainly the stone used for the exterior of the building.

  72. Lady Lancelot

    I highly recommend the movie “The Joneses”. It is about materialism gone wrong and the trap we often fall into. I had a few “ah ha” moments and could see parallels between the scam the Joneses were running and the scam the Church is running. Good movie I thought.

  73. Marty, just out of curiosity, when was the pic of the 3 motorcycles in front of RTC taken?

  74. Freedom Fighter

    Looks like there are bars on the windows too.

  75. Bryon,

    I apreciate your human kindness and your giving him the benefit of the doubt but, if TC knew about any of those no amount of donations make up for and can be considered exchange for human trafficking, slave labor, or even basic financial impropriety.

    This isn’t the mafia. Or is it?

  76. Why does the “S” and Double Triangles on the cover of the most recent issues of the Scientology News mag look exactly like a serpent head? Take a look, this is not imagination…it’s clear as a bell.

  77. martyrathbun09

    Well put Ash. Welcome.

  78. When I was the Treasury Sec FSO the Div 4 HGC was ordered to audit family members of Tom Cruise for FREE. I never did get to see the total amount of free auditing given because I sent a KR to RTC Reports when it hit $100,000. Soon after my 7 years as the Treasury Sec ended and I was removed from post without a comm ev to be posted “permanently” on the lowest post in the Furniture Mill.
    Tom Cruise is the biggest free service sucking Scientologists I know.

  79. If you can stand it, there is currently one of 3 videos at http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/video-a-workers-paradise.html which shows a lot of the premises (and then “the shack” and good old Marty, himself). Contrasted against what I knew as staff and SO, it leaves me speechless.
    There are NO PEOPLE in the video. Not a one. Pretty creepy.
    That MEST is hiding an awful lot.

  80. Virgil Samms

    From HCO PL 27 Oct 1964R Policies on Physical Healing, Insanity and Sourcesof Trouble.

    “Sources of Trouble…

    “Persons who claim that “if you help such and such a case (at great and your expense) because somebody is rich or influential or the neighbors would be electrified” should be ignored. Processing is designed for bettering individuals , not progressing for stunts or giving cases undue importance. Process only at convienience and usual arrangements. Make no extraordinary effort at the expense of other persons who do want processing for normal reasons. Not one of these arrangements has ever come off successfully as it has the unworthy goal of notoriety, not betterment.”

    So how much of other parisoners money went into TCs digs up at Int and their wheat fields that he and Nichole ran through?

    ” Scientology works, you don’t have to prove it to everyone People don’t deserve to have Scientology as a divine right, you know. They have to earn it. This has been true in every philosophy that sought to better man.”

    Sea Org members earn it on a daily basis. TC has not earned it. JT has earned it.


  81. Amazing. Just. Amazing.

    Dedicated Scientologists, working to clear the world, have degenerated into motorcycle painters and slaves. How long will the House of Cards built by this egotistical POS finally shift and fall? Every law of physics will not stop it’s eventuality. It is a matter of time before the breath of the abused blows down the flimsy cards renamed Scientology by such an obvious Suppressive Person and his loyal dog, Tom Cruise.

    How interesting it is that Slappy has forgotten history. too. The oppressed only remain oppressed until they cannot take any more. The oppressed will always fight back. It’s a matter of time and the time is coming. More and more people are blowing. More and more of the abused are finding words to write books. Sooner or later, they will all rise against you and come to their senses. Like dreamers awakening from a nightmare. And when they have, they will be coming for you, Slappy. Nothing will stop them.

    We will watch and cheer them on.


  82. Marty, this is a great topic. CoS’ Seduction of Tom Cruise was all about capturing his Mind. The MEST/Mind program run on TC could be called “Love Bombing” in language of cult studies. Those of us who were active as CoS critics prior to the 2005 Tom Cruise fiasco watched his public transformation into a DM Robot in astonishment. The media and the tabloids called every working CoS critic of note when Tom Cruise was on the Warpath for Dave the period 2005-2007.

    Re: The motorcycle paint jobs: What I find appalling in CoS is how much money is always available for frivolous luxuries and incredibly expensive equipment and yet SO gets <$50 a week, no medical insurance, no 401K, no social security contributions, and are treated as disposable, throwaway people. DM has it ass backwards: He worships MEST and throws away people.

    True story: The disposable people come back to places like this blog, ESMB, and other places and talk. DM forgot a basic LRH teaching: Thetans survive. Thetans don't need DM or CoS to survive.

    By way of comparing notes, what were those of you who were active in CoS thinking when Tom Cruise went on Matt Lauer and Oprah? How was that whole period of Tom Cruise's craziness PR'd in CoS?

    I gotta tell ya' Marty, I consider your blog to be a DMZ (demilitarized zone) online. It is great to be able to come here and compare notes with former CoS. The dialogue helps to expand the knowledge on both sides so that a middle ground develops.


  83. Lots going on, lots of good TA. Keep up the contacting folks. I don’t even have time to comment nowadays, I’m usually contacting when online. That and making auditors in the field in training centers is how we’ll succeed. Then later on the smoke will clear and the sun will come out because we all took action.

  84. At some point I’m looking forward to discussing how the RTC rep system, as put in place in May ’96 put the entire Sea Org management system from Int down to orgs, into a permanent state of bypass and a permanent Danger condition. Nail in the coffin.

    For crying out loud, the RTC rep was a daily attendee of tech heiarchy meetings at AOLA. Was the CO CMO there? CO CLO? Snr C/S WUS? Captain? Chief Off? Of course not. Just RTC micro-managing down to the smallest detail, on a daily basis.

    There should be no such thing as an IGNW Bulletin. In fact, I think the only reason they exist is because of DMs vanity. He wants to be seen as the source.

    If he was SMART he would make Int managemnt release his brilliant programs from themselves so that when they failed, he didn’t have egg on his face! And if they succeeded, he could still take credit.

    When he continually touts at int events how such and such and so and so was an RTC project, an RTC eval, and RTC pilot…all he’s saying is that he cant Phase 2 his way our of a paper bag!!

    Why is RTC having to do everyone’s job? He acts like it’s a badge of honor. But at as exec, it’s just a badge of failure.

    That’s what so many public who adore him seem to miss. If it’s one man acting like he is doing everything, where the hell is the org that that one guy was supposed to put there?

    Where is the 10 other echelons of managers? Why are they selling books instead of managing?

    Something is going to happen soon. I can tell. There’s too many strong people who have given more than they could afford, who have given up their family, who have given up promising careers to push power to something who are now finding out they’ve been duped.

    As LRH describes in the lectures that acompany AP&A…if you are going to damage (paraphrased), by god make it stick. You better succeed. You better hope to god you don’t fail. Because once you do, you’re going to get that effort right back on dynamic 1.

    Well I’ll tell you what, COB has failed. And I hope his little bunker is fortified. Cause he’s going to need all he can get to stop the counter efforts that have been building up in reserve.

  85. Unlike other Sea Org Members, David Marcab-vidge sleeps VERY WELL at night, every nights. He is not phased at all by his criminal activity & consciousness.

  86. Thank you for the clarification, Marty. Palatial office or palatial home, custom motorcyles, Mercedes, or Mazzarattis – nevertheless, the whole thing is sickening and parasitic, especially considering the sacrifices of ordinary SO members, staff, and public. I was further disgusted with the stories of enforced gifts by staff members to get around non-profit inurement rules.

    I pity staff members who have nothing to fall back on or no place to escape to. Some, if not many, must see the outpoints add up but just comply and turn a blind eye to survive.

    OSA members (and any others) reading this – DO SOMETHING for yourselves because things are not going to get better as long as DM and those under his influence are in power. Most of the things people are reporting here are TRUE. If you aren’t sure – find a way to read more. You don’t have to have done the DSEC to see the truth! READ your original LRH policies/advices/orders. Read the Creed of the Church – you should be able to think freely and talk freely and observe for yourself! Think it through, consult LRH, find a way to do what is right – at least for yourself. Do not let your self-determinism or your cases be wrecked, and don’t contribute to the suppression.

    Best wishes…

  87. FlavorsinGreen

    I heard bits and pieces of DM wasting Scientology money. Scientologists are entitled to hear how their donations are used.

    Can somebody with insider knowledge make a list of this waste? Having an own cook is waste. Why the hell can’t he eat the food that the others are eating?

  88. As a former cult member, I am deeply moved by all of your posts. I don’t know whether to cry or scream. I have much to say, but I don’t know where to start (pretty much speechless re: the flagrant abuse, mistreatment, arrogance & slave labor on the part of DM). Your articulate posts have pretty much said it all. I am behind you. I support you, I wish you all the best of luck, and keep up the good work.


  89. Close.
    Marcab-vidge is working hard at ensuring the “second coming” is a success. Religious mania restimulation is in full swing, even in the ‘faithful’ IAS Donors.

    Don’t take my word for it, see & observe for yourself …

  90. AlexMetheny

    What I want to know is why he needs such an elaborate office? Is this office on the Int base? Who ever comes to see him at this office?

  91. Gary Morehead aka "Jackson"

    Hey Mark, What’s up buddy…. Let’s not forget the differences in treatment between JT and Tom while at the Int Base. Mr. Travolta used to stop and chat with my guards and I regularly. We all know John slept during the day and was up and about mostly at nights. He used to pull up to Broadway or the Main Booth gates and chat for a few.He was always excited when Jet was coming to hang with him for the day. I’ll never forget watching him raise Jet up and race him around as though he was flying. The smile on John’s face was priceless! And the laughter comming from Jet! John would cruz in shorts and flipflops as casual as could be. There was NO entourage or anyone with him. He had the freedom of movement around the base. A San Jacinto cop – who hung out at the Fire Station I worked at, told me the story of pulling JT over on Sanderson Ave one night. He was impressed with how cool and civil he was, totally willing to recieve the ticket he deserved for his crusing speed of 107 mph in his Jag. The officer just couldn’t issue the ticket as JT was simply genuine and very sorry for what he had done.( that’s what the officer said) The cop felt he’d done his job and was proud to tell me ” I gave him a warning!” . He was giddish. During Tom’s stay, he too was pulled over for speeding on Sanderson doing 125mph in his Porche. Base security was tightened up due to the security leak of the locals now knowing of Tom’s presence. Anyway, my point is is that the treatment of Tom vs JT was clearly different which I thought was insulting to JT cuz JT was just being there, enjoying the great company he had there ( Int Base Staff) where he could roam free without concerne from outside distraction. Tom too was cool but the atmosphere and attention to detail of his being there was clearly different. The one clear mahor difference was the Mother F-in threat instilled into the crew if they were ever found to be out of line with the goose stepping expected of us during his stay! (And Dave, don’t tell me this was not the case) I used to have to do a uniform inspection of Kevin Caetano before each of his sessions by Tom. I always felt weird doing this cuz I felt it introverted KC by having to “look” good before picking up the can’s for his auditor. ( Kevin actually recieved a new set of uniforms to help guarentee his looking god for his sessions with Tom while the rest of my force continued to wear their older worn out ones’s) Since I know you are reading this ….. Hey Dave Miscavige, could you please ( or have your self-assigned troll Snowhite report on your behalf) clear up a long standing question of mine… That $40,000.00 plus rolled up wad of hard cold cash wrapped with a rubber band that you left on the table of the Captain’s bar at the Ship (Star of California) , Bonnie could’nt remember if you said you or TC won it in Vegas. I was left hanging on that one cuz I’d never seen so much money in one place – except on the money runs I used to escort, Bonnie was just as shocked as I was. We both stared at it as long as we could before Lou would come to collect it. Please oh please could you answer this for me! You can call me with the answer if publically anwering me here hurt’s your ego. — Jackson

  92. becomingAware

    Very true Mark. And when they did come in by helicopter what was seen. Dirt and concrete off on the North end of the property in the ditch, construction rubble. Well DM tore Gold a new ass$@# over that. The entire Org was marched out there in the dirt and made wrong. We were in whites, whites no longer. So another project was started over vanity and that TC could see something that DM did not want him to see. I have other stories about this relationship but not now.

  93. becomingAware


    Some of those windows look like the ‘smart glass’ that was installed in the auditing rooms at the Sandcastle when it was rebuilt so many years ago. The glass that becomes frosted and somewhat opaque when a voltage is applied. True or just the way the picture was taken?

  94. I remember long ago when a family member told me that donation money to the church was most likely supporting top echelon members in luxory. I scoffed at that notion, thinking that all SO members, even the highest, were living simply in berthing. I assumed this since most SO recruiters told me that was the case, and that I would be assigned such quarters. Fair enough, I thought, since it was not money that was the motive in being on staff.

    Wow, and to think I kept that picture in my mind for years while DM was living it up on champagne and caviar while I thought he was drawing $50 a week and eating beans and rice.

    Man, do I feel stupid for having worked my tail off for years with maxed credit cards and no vacations while the midget was living the life of a multi-millionaire, beating staff and altering the tech that was spinning me in.

    The little sh-tball needs to be gotten rid of. I am no fan of the psycho IRS, but on this matter, I hope they nail him good.

    I presume the gathering storm centers around the picture that Marty is slowly painting with these unfolding stories.

    I am fuming. I may need a visit to the Shack to run out my PBC, or I am going to explode.

    Centurion (tic toc tic toc….)

  95. rory medford

    the correct terminals are very aware and are crossing their tees and dotting their eyes and will move forward when appropriate but they are the correct authorities to put justice actions in.. eventually the truth gets revealed but in he process many are hurt mentally, physically and financially and of course spiritually. DM has broke the spirit and hope of mant SO people and continues to do so in PT

  96. UnDisturbed

    US society runs on a ‘wrong why’ of buying things will bring you happiness. Nice clothes, nice cars, nice houses etc do not by themselves make you happy. It won’t get you out of the game.

    Not dissimilar to any of us old hippies who thought drugs would make us free. If you took LSD and it opened the door to the other side, it just as quickly slammed it shut in your face. It proved to be the ultimate trap.

    Money won’t buy you freedom, and neither will drugs. No matter how much status and donations to IAS etc you make, it won’t buy you an OT.

    It’s your own hard work, study, application and persistence that will open the door and allow you to walk thru. Looks like the management of the Church of Scn needs to learn that lesson.

  97. Magnolia, I too am in for over a hundred thousand only to have my clear STILL in limbo when I threw in the towel. But as far as I have read the actual statute of limitations on a claim does not start until the plantiff discovers the fraud.

    I’d like to see you get your money back. Hell, come to think of it I could use a hundred grand myself. Maybe adjusted for inflation, with interest.

    Oh, that would be a fine day.
    As for Dave well he could give up the bike and run everywhere he goes for the rest of his life. He might eventually come into present time.

    My guess is, TC hasn’t had much training. I started seeing alot of these quickie OT’s when it became kosher to skyrocket up the bridge on zero training if you had the cash. Also there was some investment broker, Fishbeck or something…skinning the stock market for those who could afford to gamble.I remember some momentary moaning about how that was out exchange as there was no product attached to it. But that attitude was quickly quelched.

    anyway, it turned out some really squirrely product, not to mention a cancer epidemic.

    But also my favourite twin ever fell over from it too, and she was training and co-auditing mostly. There was a time period in there though when she somehow came up with a chunk of cash and was on th OT’s levels before I could believe it!

    Looking back at all that, maybe I was incredibly lucky that no one semed to be able to figure out my “case.”

    I don’t think LRH named it the non-interference zone for his own amusement.

  98. rory medford

    In reality DM is already in a hole/bunker call it what you will but he is already in his own little world

  99. Marty, did DM or someone try to push your buttons by calling you “Rathbone” in the past?

    The “PR” materials coming from the church right now are bizarre. A lot of the stuff seems like DM wrote it, or wrote it through someone.

    It has weird attacks on you and the other guys, but they are really strange. Like showing a picture of you sitting at a pool proves something.

    The average person viewing this stuff (From the Freedom magazine website) would think the church is nuts. It’s like something from the Onion or Monty Python or something. It’s really quite surreal. They produced three “response” videos to the AC360 show attacking Anderson Cooper and everyone else. But even in the responses to specific points they dont actually give any direct answers.

    DM beats staff is handled by showing that he flies around a lot. That staff are mistreated and the Gold base is like a prison camp (or whatever, I’m probably misquoting badly) the response is to show the buildings but no staff- no people. I think all three videos have the main communication of “look at all our MEST”…”How can we be bad if we have such nice MEST and buildings and everything”.

    Even if I was still totally in I would think these videos and other stuff coming from the church was weird. It’s just weird. I can feel someones weird case all saturated in it.

  100. The Chaplain

    “Now let’s say you want to stop something You want to stop something — give it things. Give it lots of matter. And the more matter you give it, the slower it will operate. And you want to stop it dead in its tracks, just empty the dump trucks on it. It’ll stop.”

    Wouldn’t it work in the other direction too, with dump truck sized donations for extravagant quarters to Ideal Orgs?

  101. LOL thanks Jim. That clears up a lot for me.

  102. Cured Robot

    Yea, TC as you did in Valkyrie, step up.

  103. Pingback: Miscavige's annihilation of Tom Cruise (part one) « Moving On Up a … | Tom Cruise Celebrity Monitor

  104. I join the team on this one.
    Always Loyal to LRH!

  105. dechevaliere

    Just came across this LRH in AP&A
    book. I wonder if it’s one of DM’s tactics:

    “In handling men, you can put them in a hypnotic, automaton state by posing rapidly a series of factors they then see they cannot of themselves evaluate and then get them to a point where they are in an anxiety for you to make the decision. Depress them low enough
    in this wise and they obey like robots. THUS

  106. Theo Sismanides

    Ashton, really good point. I never heard of DM lecturing on a tech briefing. Like he has some deep knowledge of the subject like LRH did.

    No Freedom there with DM. Meaning no Free Space, the guy is small and is suppressing our space and the space of Scientology.

    Now, it’s our turn to show how big we are and take that space. I don’t care about the church, I don’t care about the Scientologists who just expect orders, I do care about what is happening in the world right now and it ain’t good.

    This is our space guys. Forget DM. He will come down anyway, one day or another. He is not cause over life. He is cause over the Sea Org and the C of M.

    I care about the oil spill and what is going on with other leaders of the world. Like what happened to the Polish Prime Minister who denied to have the IMF in his country and denied the flu vaccines. He is gone with his central bank director, his wife and many others on that plane crash?

    The one worlders are at full play. BP has done a major damage to the Gulf and no one is taking them down. It’s like the Sea Org under Miscavige. If you one who has donated to the cause you are protected even if you comit the most horrible crime.

    I care about my country which has given this civilization a philosophy to go on and now is deep in debt with the German governement now again manipulating financially whole nations and making slaves out of them. And the “Goldamn Sucks” and all of that capitalistic system sucking up money out of thin air.

    I care about a Robert Kiyosaki who has come out to say few things about the Conspiracy of the Rich and has written books on how to handle finances in this new age.

    What do we do now? What is our purpose in existing? To take down DM? Is this our purpose in life now?

    Or is it to grow and BE ourselves with the help of Scientology?

    And what does this mean? And how can we proceed from here if we agree this is a worthwhile purpose?

    A-high-order-of-a-new-postulate is needed here. I think the postulate has been made by everyone here. However it needs to be put into concrete. It needs to be named.

  107. ClearlyMistreated

    I’m not going to jump on the anti-Tom Cruise bandwagon so quickly. How is he so different than all of our friends and relatives that are still mind controlled by the cult? In fact, I would think the church is even more controlling about his comm lines than the people we know. They’re not bad people, they are just very afraid of looking.

  108. YUK! Where does that architecture even look good? I guess maybe if I know what it all costs I’d be impressed but if I just look at it…YUK!
    Of course knowing where it all comes from makes it even uglier!

  109. I also have a feeling Miscavige wrongful use of Scientology by enforcing it as the only solution makes people singleminded. I remember Kidman on Letterman when she was married to Tom, she looked tense and different and after they had divorced she was much more loose and relaxed.

    Miscavige insane enforcement makes people singleminded, a behaviour Cruise has shown every once in a while.

    My advice: Scientology is great if it’s used the right way, but please: Loosen up, get a grip, stop being fanatic. It doesn’t look good.

  110. Tom has two bikes but Dave only has one? It’s not like DM to let someone else be “better”. Surely there must be another bike. Ah! There it is – hiding! Click the image to see it full size, and you’ll see bike 4 almost obscured by water. But the colours are the same and you can see the mirror.

  111. And probably now you do understand why the Anons, who usually have the attention span of the blink of a chameleon, are still here after 2 effin years. It’s not that we coulnd’t find something more lulzy.

    Whether lrh was a genius or a loon, each and everyone is entitled to his own oppinion there. But the organization he created is a real monster by now.

  112. Chairman of the Bored

    What is all this natter and 3rd party about my dear friend, Chairman of the Bored?

    When I was at INCOMM in 1988 there was a glitch in the computer program that was used by CSI Treasury (GOLD) to cut checks for Sea Org members at the Int base. The programmers at INCOMM had built in a “bozo check” so that a single check to a single Sea Org member could not be more than $9999.99. It turns out that range check was too small for DM’s 1988 Xmas bonus. How big was DM’s bonus that year? $12,000.00. My Xmas bonus that year was 1 percent of DM’s bonus.

  113. Chairman of the Bored

    Besides, why do DM and TC think the Church of Scientology should be represented by a bunch of bad ass biker wannabes? Perhaps they never saw the Clint Eastwood movie “Every Which Way But Loose”, with DM being the leader of the Black Widows (notice that he beats his staff):

  114. reading through the comments looks like we go upscale to 1.5 on the subject. At least me. Can I tell you what I would like to do right now?
    But I can withhold that and wait until I come trough 1.5.

  115. Is it just me or does anyone else see what I’m about to state what I think IMHO is the obvious.

    DM treats TC like a man of means would treat his mistress.

    Here is my question: Are these two men gay lovers?

  116. Dart Assassin

    I believe LRH bought his own houses and fixed up his own bikes and cars.
    He could confront and handle his MEST.
    He put SO members and Thetans to better use!

  117. martyrathbun09

    Theo, I am with you man.

  118. martyrathbun09

    The entire base has been shut down since first week in April working on that stuff. My take? They will drive more of their own to go watch the original interviews.

  119. martyrathbun09

    becomingAware, no, what you’re seeing is a blind that was pulled down.

  120. Wonder what Katie thinks about all that if she gets to know all that at all! Wonder if she is allowed or willing to read your blog, Marty.

    Hope she has a good, strong loving family to back her up when she eventually has to face the bs of her hubby. She seems to be a sweetheart and a very intelligent woman. (Wouldn’t want to be in her shoes …)

  121. Hmm, in comparison, does anyone recall when the castle was built at St. Hill?
    I remember the atmosphere at AOLA and at the Manor, public were buzzing, so excited there, it was an open invitation for public to go and help built something special, it was a priviledge and honor, it was for Ron. Joy of creating, No $$$$$$ regging, just by word of mouth, wow we can help! Many public Clears and OTs packed up and went to England to help build Ron’s Castle, with C/S ok, ofcourse.

  122. martyrathbun09

    Ouuchh, boo-yah.

  123. martyrathbun09

    Crystal, thank you. It is nice to have you here.

  124. There will be no way for her to NOT find out sooner or later.

    Then all the good spirits be with her.

  125. Where does this idea that SO members get as much as $50 a week come from? In 5 years I was lucky if the weekly pay was more than $20, but usually much less, often nil. We dreamed of $50/week.

  126. Yes, but Tom’s got a PAIR! na na na na na . (pretty OT feat though that he can ride 2 bikes at once).

  127. martyrathbun09

    First, Your observations are right on. Habitual violations of HCOPL Dangers Conditions, Why Organizations Stay Small, alone, makes church demise a forgone conclusion. I slightly edited your last paragraph so that it couldn’t get misinterpreted. Hope you don’t mind.

  128. martyrathbun09

    Jonathan Swift, Thanks, You’ve made some observations I concur with. I don’t know how Lauer went down as what no there. I can tell you, that show was the valence of DM in full blown dramatization.

  129. Religious mania restimulation:

    -Pesecution of gays
    -Building chatedrals
    -Playing the guiltbutton
    -Physical deformity comes from bad behaviour(You pulled it in)
    -No sex before marriage
    -No heavy petting
    -Can’t have (to much)personal possessions
    -The Church knows best and is allways right
    -Classification of people
    -You serve the Church , the Church is not there to serve you.
    -Onley the church has your eternal salvation
    -Heritics are presecuted
    -Covering up crimes because it looks bad
    -Wealthy people are better than people with less money to donate.

  130. No worries.

  131. Lucy James

    Seeing the motor cycles posed in front of the “Religious Technology Center”. Do you laugh or do you cry?

    Tom Cruise is not like other Scientologists who are in and under the suppression. Tom has nothing to lose if he left the church. In fact he would gain respect from the general populace. Sure he got caught out by DM but there’s a point where any ethical individual says enough is enough and won’t accept DM’s shenanigans. I suspect he has been involved in too many harmful acts with DM and that is what is truly sticking him.

  132. Pete T also said in the same song “Meet the new boss – same as the old boss”. Let’s not kid ourselves that Yaeger, Starkey or Leservre standing up at a briefing in a years time saying “We did it – we found the SP! All is well again!” is going to fix it.

    The song itself is worthy of a quick listen 🙂

  133. dm’s secret documents and those at EVERY church, I’m assuming, not just Turin, is HOW dm sleeps at night.

    He knows where the bodies are buried. And TC has his share. Starting with wife one — Mimi Rogers.

    The dark forces seem to be winning this … BUT!!!

    What we lack in evil, we make up in good. We aren’t blackmailable not because we haven’t done bad things — but because we DONT CARE if they are exposed. We are the ones who shared our secrets.

    dm can’t even tell another living soul his crimes. With every brick and poured concrete of that mausoleum he calls his office, he solidified his “soul” That is going to take untold eons before he sees the light of day.


  134. I am curious, but how much is JT involved in actual bridge progress or was he? You don’t see much hype about any donations he makes to IAS or any other org. Is most of his major bridge progress from the early days?

  135. And how many Idle Orgs could have been purchased with this cash??? It makes me sick receiving endless emails (aka spam) asking ME to cough up £££ for yet ANOTHER (off-policy) building in the UK whilst our most beloved Pope (hail!) sits back in his $70m palace (SEVENTY MILLION, ffs!)

  136. “Like what happened to the Polish Prime Minister who denied to have the IMF in his country and denied the flu vaccines. He is gone with his central bank director, his wife and many others on that plane crash?”

    Oh sweet mother of God. Planes do crash more than you think and the IMF is not a terrorist organizations and bankers are just little boys who’s greed got out of control by lack of supervision.

  137. Yes but onley if they can prove DMs crimes in a court of lw and can prove TC knew about them.

  138. Kinda sorta off topic but then again not…when I was at CCInt or maybe at Flag, the mantles/fireplace surrounds were made with some faux treatment to look like stone, marble, etc. I thought they were absolutely beautiful. I asked someone who made them and was told S.O. staff did and there was a hat write-up on how to make them.
    I would love to have this hat write-up if anyone has it. tmb.stuff at gmail dot com pretty please.

  139. To qoute a protest sign

    “Down with this sort of thing”

  140. I agree, where are the people. If this is a luxury retreat and resort, why don’t you see people playing volleyball, swimming in the pool, or what about a few rounds of golf??? Not sure who they are trying to convince here with this video, but all SCN’s know that being in the sea org is hard work, and you don’t get much time to play, even at the lower orgs. The hole that they are digging with all of these types of videos and reports is beyond ridiculous. When are they going to answer the real questions about “why were SP’s allowed to be on post for so long?” (just using their own party line here) I don’t want to hear how this is an internal matter. Go and attend a few WISE seminars and fix your own problems before you start dishing out advice to the rest of us!

  141. These are beautifull Bikes!

  142. You took the words right out of my mouth. I never got 50 bucks in a week – we went for months without a paycheck and on beans and rice. I remember at one point I only had one pair of pants and they were so worn out!

  143. Quicksilver

    Beautifully written, Jack.

    And speaking of the Pope, I remember getting a panic call late one night to buy a plane ticket for someone who had a meeting with the Pope the next day … I dutifully whipped out my credit card & gave the info.

    Now I’m wondering if I had my Popes mixed up.

  144. The website is very slick and the videos are very well produced, but the content just doesnt communicate. Or it does, but not what is intended. It’s basically an internet 1.5 flame war with someone who has a multi-million dollar A/V production studio to use as a weapon.

    A year ago I wouldnt have been aware of some of the outpoints. For example- the pictures they used of you, Amy Scobee and others are surveillance pics from private investigators. Pics like Amy Scobee in a bathing suit and far-away looking pics of you and the other guys that were on AC360. Creepy.

    I think you are right, it’s self destructive in that it will drive many to view the original interviews and the AC360 show. I cant imagine it’s an “on-policy” action. It seems like a mistake to use so much resources to produce attack videos like these. It’s not the product that should be coming from Scientology.

    Even if they were right and the AC360 show was a bunh of lies, this is a stupid PR move. It makes the Church look like a hateful organization that will try to destroy people. It’s just confirming the worst behavior that I have heard about in regards to how they handle critics and guys like you.

    I just realised- this is attitudes (1.5) that had been kept hidden for many years and now it’s coming out. More overt in a way, except it’s behind the veil of “The Church”

  145. Money shouldn`t be the motivator for serving in the Sea Org. Even Christian Orders are often poor in mest but rich in spirit. And the Sea Org is a religious order too. Both can sleep and eat for free. A lot of people hasn`t got 50 or 20 Dollars a week to spend freely! A lot of working people didn`t reach the final days of each Month with the money they earn. And Sea Org Members have important work to do. They are great people, wonderful Thetans. You betrayed them, especially Marty, by leaving them alone. In your case, Marty, you are forgiven, because you really were damaging from the inside. Now from the outside. I`m sure, the criminal courts soon will look at what you are doing.

  146. LRH loved big Motorcycles too.

  147. Holy crap! I just saw the video – they call the Star of California “Communal” HA! I was there for 10 years and sawm in that thing twice (both times on Sea Org Day in the early 90’s. The times we had access to all those wonderful things were once a year for a few years anyway. And yes you can be a slave working in those idyllic places if you’re not getting paid and horribly sleep deprived! It would have been nice if they did interview some of the blue collar Gold staff.

  148. martyrathbun09

    Snowwhite, thank you for exhibit “A”. DM attempting to throw LRH under the bus at EVERY turn. DM is the biggest source of Black PR on LRH in the history of Scientology. He makes Nibs look like a piker by comparison.

  149. martyrathbun09

    DFB, I concur.

  150. martyrathbun09

    And if you put a tooth under your pillow the tooth fairy will reward you handsomely.

  151. Vicki,

    thank you for that find.
    I am appalled. What a brilliant smoke screen. And : What brilliant people are still left there, able to make such a piece of perfect “DA” for the unsuspecting duped SCN and non-SCN public.

    God, would I want that somebody had pictures made from the darker sides of Int base existence, from the sewage in the lake, the bunk bed rooms of the RPFers, the poor sanitary installments, the carpentry, the trailer office cubicles, the big conference room where so many execs got abused and the musical chairs event occurred, he tents and gardenhose showers….
    Trusting the whistleblowers and knowing what goes on there and seeing how it still can be covered up is a huge upset to me. I am floored and a bit hopeless in the moment…
    DM must be still VERY assured to be safe in his saddle.

  152. Quicksilver

    Yes, I was there while the castle was being built. It was a great time … very exciting and we all worked as a real group.

    I especially loved studying (no power/heat) under candlelight in the dungeon – we were all huddled in our winter jackets, materials open the the flickering flames lighting up the OTIII Wall of Fire mural on the wall. It was surreal !

    There are so many good people at St. Hill – many who were there when Ron was there.

    As a group, we cared for one another and we got things done.

    Great memories, great times, and the best of what Scientology represents in a true group

  153. martyrathbun09

    Fidelio, the cover up is magnificent, costly and in the end will be the tyrant’s undoing. It is called obstruction of justice.

  154. Yes they all shine so pretty don’t they, Oooooh shiney stuff, now I don’t have to use my brain.

  155. Huckleberry

    You are, as always, astute Marty.

    The Big Picture involves DM torpedoing TC. He bestows him with gifts and flattery in order to bring him close, from where it’s easier to destroy him.

    Ultimately TC is – in DM’s held-down-7 view of life – his biggest threat.

    I sense much indignation on this board but it’s like we’re expecting a cannibal to stop shrinking skulls. It is what they do …

    Miscavige is the only cowboy left at the Little Big Horn in his stuck incident, and we’re ALL indians.

    He’s picking us off, all the while very cleverly careful to avoid being found out. He is the good guy in his mind.

    Why is he so obsessed about quieening the MRs, or Janice or any of the execs he’s ridded himself of?

    Because they can expose him and those propping up his little two-bit dictatorship might just snap out of the trance he’s got them in.

    btw, Cruise is in DM’s winning valence, an unfortunate truth to which I can attest.

  156. Dave just flunked his A – J check

  157. When I first saw the photo I thought it was Tom Cruise’s home. I think the I.A.S. likes this though, didn’t they gift DM a custom BMW from donations given to protect Scientology? I think they should have gifted one to every Sea Org Member, actually. Wonder why none of the other Sea Org Members got a BMW? I don’t have a problem with DM having all of this stuff. I have a problem with the fact that none of the other Sea Org Members have anything. I have a problem with the fact that DM is not there on the same terms as anyone else. I have a problem that DM is running “Can’t haves” on all of the other staff and they don’t seem to object. “Can’t Have” 2D, libs, Training, auditing, sleep, decent food, phones, mail, computers, money, etc etc.
    But as long as they want to remain in this marriage with him, that is also their right. I guess the staff that are still there are even defending this marriage by attacking the ones who decide to leave or protest. This is how many cultures live especially in the Middle East.

  158. Go back to the St. Peterburg time with DM in the late 90’s (I think 1998). Now that all of us have had our eyes opened to what really goes on, and the whole existence of Dm, while reading the article it actually makes you sick to hear some of the things DM says in the article. He wasn’t hiding it then, and he isn’t hiding it now. Reading it today brings a whole new appreciation for what this guy really is!

  159. DFB;

    Weird is the perfect description.

    These videos indicate a level of impingement on Miscavige beyond imagination. He is desperate.
    And that is making him even more weird.

    While they accuse Anderson Cooper of Yellow Journalism, any non-Scientologist that views these videos is going to gag. Repeatedly. They are SO incredibly self-serving and laced with vitriol that they (like the appearance of the Stepford wives and Captain Morgan Starkey on the show) make the point that the C of M has in fact degenerated into a cult. The arrogance coupled with the whiny cry-baby language courtesy of Dan Sherman is just repulsive.

    Miscavige must be worried about the staff and public — as this is the only audience that could begin to buy the bs (if he thinks others are going to get a kick out of 1.1 comments about Anderson Cooper’s choice of T-shirts, he really has lost his marbles). But to spend that amount of time and money to try to shore up the staff and public is an indicator of how he feels he is losing his grip (qnd income sources).

    Because those videos are useless — no, harmful — for any other public.

    And one last comment — compared to what he could have done withh the material he had, Anderson Cooper’s dedication to “balance” in his coverage would qualify him to audition for Cirque du Soleil.


  160. Were any ex-Sea Org members here allowed to play basketball, baseball, volleyball, go on picnics or swim in the pool, as those videos say you did?

    I suppose DM didn’t want to show any actual staff in those videos of Int, because they too will end up escaping soon enough.

  161. Snowwhite, honestly, are you the best what they have to send these days?

    Even Joel’s drivel over on RFW is more interesting to read.

  162. “Scientology celebs are no better than wog celebs look at travoltas toys like his airplane etc..”

    Maybe you should have a look at the PTS SP course data. Just because someone isn’t running a “Can’t Have” on themselves doesn’t make them abberated. Running “Can’t Haves” and “Must Haves” is suppressive per Hubbard. Scientology is about BE DO HAVE. What I find abberated is someone who can BE and DO just fine but agrees to not HAVE. Hubbard did not run Can’t Haves on himself. DM is not running Can’t Haves on himself. If the Sea Org Members want to run BE DO CAN’T HAVE on themselves they have that right. That doesn’t make John Travolta wrong.

  163. War and Peace, very intelligent input. That’s sexy.

  164. The videos are sickly, patronising, 1.1 commentary and underscored with that tinkly elevator muzak so popular with Church productions. The outpoints are too long to list, but the best bit for me was the evidence that Marty, Jeff and Tom DeVocht must have been colluding with each other because… they have similar facial hair!!! Priceless.

  165. Marble is a common faux finish. Not for beginners, but an exeprienced faux painter should be able to do it pretty easy.

    You could look it up google or buy a book and practice a bit on some cardboard or something.

  166. Yes, they will drive more of their own to go watch the AC 360 interviews, since without knowing those, the glitz videos don’t make much sense.

    Seeing all the glamour, the videos have one big value to me: Gives me an imagination on what the real accomplishments and products of the RPFers are! And thinking of the 70 Mio for the office building, spend just for materials and not for labour wages (which is normally the bigger part of the calculation with constructions!) makes the expenses even more capricious and outlandish.

    Who the hell would have signed a SO contract to end up building that type of environment, pampering a spoilt celebrity, – what could be further away from training and auditing and helping people to get free?

    Marty, I HOPE very much, that cover up will be understood and seen as actionable further obstruction of justice.

    Thank you all here for turning the screws harder and harder.

  167. Tom Cruise, if you are reading this, look, DM has not had a session in over ten years. Could you PLEASE for us, just ask to give him a session? Just fly his ruds. How bad is a request like that? If he has any witholds from you, you can handle those too. Who else can get him in the chair? We are only asking that you help the guy by going over there with your charged meter and leaving until you get him in session and help him. Just fly his ruds. How bad is that for a request Tom?

  168. Nightmares Getting Less


    Actually DM last went in Session in 1990, make that 20 years.

  169. Jackson, that was awsome. I would say ouuchh times two! a big Arizona Boo-yah to you Jackson!

  170. Maybe Davey will take you for a ride. Oh wait, he already is!

  171. Martin, love those WHO!

  172. smowhite you and the Youtube user Marcotai should hook up. You will be friends in no time. I promisse.

  173. DM hasn’t eaten “with others” since the mid 90’s other than public functions like IAS dinners and he has a Chef – not a mere “cook”. There is a difference.

    Diet is a specialized one which takes what his personal physical trainer recommends – 5 meals per day, with specific ratios of protein to carbs to fats by calories.

    It includes liked items on the menu and the quality of food is way above that which any regular SO exec or staff has on their approved food allocation from financial planning done.

    There are also specialized foods like sushi which is gotten (take-out) from expensive local restaurants like Nobu every weekend for him and entourage, 20k for food is not too excessive.

  174. Thank you Rory. There is hope.

  175. dm is a godsend to the dark forces. He has almost completely destroyed the workability of LRHs tech. He has almost destroyed all well meaning staff and public.


    But the whistleblowers — Marty, Mike, Jeff et al are making scientology FAR too noticeable.

    dm almost succeeded in burying one of the best hopes for this planet and mankind into the dustbin of unworkable technologies, intended to help but oh sorry, failed.

    The evil forces cannot be pleased with their puppet.

    And when the puppet masters aren’t happy — the puppet is left without power.

    It will implode.



  176. When the power of love overcomes the love of power,
    the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

  177. Yeah, send them a particle flow too fast to duplicate
    and they go on pause real fast. That is what some people are breaking free of when they say they need to “decompress”.

  178. Jack — this is so far out of the realm of possibility for most people, no one has commented.

    My gay friends have insisted for years that TC is gay …

    and dm — well, I’d put him into the S&M camp. Think Pulp Fiction basement, leathers and chains. So lovers — no. dm can’t love.


  179. Mike,

    I am glad for your evaluation of the guy’s mindset in the moment, you know the man and I am sure you can “read his mind” better than anybody else.

    And given the material, you know Anderson Cooper had, I wish he would “balance out” the viciousness of the unbalanced attacks of the “Freedom Videos” by using that material in a much juicier follow-up . Let’s see…

  180. This is rather Huge information. Sea Org Members don’t get auditing for free. Actually they don’t get auditing at all unless they are routing out. But if they leave they get a bill.

  181. Good thinking Theo, let’s move on to plan B. We should call ourselves Plan B Productions. Fifty ways to leave this mess in “the past.”

  182. 20k? Huh? How big is his entourage, then?

  183. By the way, so little interest on this web site they are using it now as a paid advertisement. Yes, I saw it today as a paid advertisment. Quite a flap accusing Cooper of not granting interviews after DM refused to show up and be confronted by Anderson Cooper. They must think everyone in Scientology has an I.Q. under 80!

  184. Natalie,

    Back in the 90’s we used the pool for SO Day (until that was canceled by DM). Same for the baseball diamond, volleyball courts etc. Since then, these are reserved for DM and his guests, though in about 2003 there was a mass “overboarding ceremony” in the pool overseen by Dear Leader where all of Int Management went “swimming” in their full uniforms.

    The soccer field is reserved for David Beckham — should he ever actually be persuaded to show up at the Base by TC. He annd DM have been trying to accomplish that since around 2002. THe soccer field was made perfect: leveled, resodded (not seeded) and watered. It is DM’s “Field of Dreams” — he built it now he hopes Beckham will come.

    As for the golf course, there hasnt been an SO member on that golf course in 15 years, other than maybe Dear Leader.

    It was a pretty strange video — the “Worker’s Paradise”. I guess they could have done one showing the magnificent antebellum homes in the south with large verandahs for sipping mint juleps, and lavish gardens for afternoon walks and huge rooms with pianos and perfectly set tables with elegant dinnerware and on and on — all PROOF that slavery didnt exist.

    My only comment on that video: What Wall?


  185. I know a family member of Miscavige’s wife, ex SO with an unpaid FL debt, who also got free auditing, at AOLA, due to their “family connections”.

  186. Mat,
    that is disgusting!

    And yes, Oracle, staff auditing meant to be the exchange for the service they give, is NOT occurring and/or billed by obscene “freeloader bills”. Equally disgusting.

    Gawd, let the travesty be ended soon.

  187. mjrinder, a year ago I would have swallowed, or justified this type of stuff, but now looking at it from another viewpoint and knowing more of the behind the scenes details I am seeing it more as what it is and it’s not good.

    I dont know if it happened quickly or I guess it just crept up on me and hit all of a sudden, but the church isnt what I thought it was at all. I think I was putting my own mock-up in place of the church and somehow justifynig anything that didnt fit with that. Right now I’m sort of coming into PT and looking at things for what they are and I dont like what I’m seeing.

  188. When I was being recruited for the sea org, I was told that every morning I could go swimming. It was a bunch of crap then, just as it is today.

    The stranger thing is Anderson Cooper made it very clear in the beginning of his program that he was not doing a piece on scientology or the church as a whole. He was only covering DM and the abuse at the top. So why would he go and see church buildings, etc… if the story was about DM, the only relevant person to interview would be DM. So if everything is so transparent, then why was he not available for interviews?

    I am still waiting!!!

  189. Mike said: “I guess they could have done one showing the magnificent antebellum homes in the south with large verandahs for sipping mint juleps, and lavish gardens for afternoon walks and huge rooms with pianos and perfectly set tables with elegant dinnerware and on and on — all PROOF that slavery didnt exist.”

    Perfect analogy!

    Just Me

  190. Mockingbird6

    I just watched the slur video on Anderson Cooper. It made me sick to see the emphasis on how beautiful the MEST was so therefore it couldn’t be possible that people were worked to death to run it.

    The statement that no slave camp could have a cathedral (?) particularly sickened me. One of the Nazi concentration camps was set up using a large church as its headquarters. Once you came through the barbed-wire gates on that side, you went directly to the headquarters and saw only the beauty of the old church. There was nothing visible of the suffering, only the glory of the headquarters with all the nicest mest you could imagine. I think I will go throw up now.

  191. I think this is what events are. All this information, all these huge “wins”, bam, bam, bam, one after the other. All stuff that you didnt and couldnt have ben a part of.

    It made me feel like there was some mystery group of OT’s working magic and I wasnt OT enough to be involved. This leaves the public that attend events (or read mags) feeling pretty apathetic about actually being part of the group doesnt it?

    At some point I started actually looking at the stats that were being presented and some of them looked like a load of PR BS.

    You are trained into this idea that the only way you can help is with money. That you are very out-exchange and sort of out-ethics because you arent getting it done, but the routes for you to actually help are shut off so you are trapped in that state.

    It’s sort of a trap really. A big theta trap for the whole of Scientology. All the people who could be really doing something about this world are stuck in this trap. They have so much attention on how they are going to pay their credit card bills and donate more money, and maybe get up the bridge and buy the next lectures that they arent really even operating on the third and fourth dynamic many of them. I think a Scientologist should rock and roll on the third and fourth dynamic.

    I was in a state of mind where I think really I was selfish. “How am I going to get up the bridge?”
    I know better than these wogs because I’m a scientologists”, all the while I’m not outflowing and creating any big things on the third or fourth dynamic because I have been tricked into believing that my large financial contributions to the group were doing this work for me.
    Now I see some examples of what IAS money and other donations is spent on and it’s not good. It’s not good.

  192. martyrathbun09

    mjrinder, hold you hat. I just found out that – in spite of your and my estimations that this tripe was only intended for internal public- the tyrant had it send out to all major US media? He’s just outdone himself for about the eleventh consecutive time in magnitude of foot missiles launched.

  193. DFB said: “It made me feel like there was some mystery group of OT’s working magic and I wasnt OT enough to be involved. This leaves the public that attend events (or read mags) feeling pretty apathetic about actually being part of the group doesnt it?”

    Badda-boom, DFB! The sociology of the whole scheme is fascinating.

    Just Me

  194. Marty,

    Will the wonders of Dear Leader’s arrogance never cease? He has completely and utterly lost touch with reality.

    Does he really think that other media are going to look at this and go “Wow, let’s do a story on Scientology showing all these wonderful buildings?” Maybe he thinks he is going to intimidate them all because they are worried about having a video done on them if they dare do anything on Scientology not to his liking? But those videos don’t scare the big media. It’s sort of a badge of honor for them — like having a Declare Order for a Scientologist.

    Wow. Even with all his other insanities, this move is the most bizarre yet.

    Way to go Dave. You are making our job easier every day!

  195. When I was at ITO in the early 1990s, an entire floor of the HGC building in Hollywood was cleared out (the 11th floor IIRC) and renovated at great expense to be made into a lavish RTC office. I personally participated in these renos on several occassions. It was very fancy, a lot of high end materials. At the same time, a wing of one floor in the PAC dorms was turned into lavish quarters for COB to use when he stayed at PAC base. ITO students were stacked up like we were living in a submarine; we lived on the 7th floor yet were forbidden from using the elevator. Yet there was plenty of space an money for RTC quarters and office that were never used. Outpoints galore.

  196. Marty, Mike,

    really? That IS remarkable. This guy is calling for disaster and havoc raised on him. What an astounding gig.

  197. Theo Sismanides

    Cat Daddy, I have been hearing you long time now. You can be as reasonable as you want. But do not tell me who is the IMF and that bankers are just little boys.

  198. Mike Hobson


    What’s taking Bert Fields so long to send you another threatening-letter-that-is-not-really-a-legal-threat ?

    Michael A. Hobson

  199. Natalie,

    The “sportsfield” was constructed in the late 80’s with considerable undue pressure and duress and lack of sleep for construction crews. It included a fitness trail or parcourse which were lit at night.

    Not shown on the video are tennis courts too near the “G’s” which were VIP cottages which TC, Nicole, and assistant stayed at, made for their use only.

    There was a time in the late 80’s- early 90’s (brief) whereby Int base staff had mandatory “exercise time” in their schedules based on LRH policy and would use the parcourse to start with and volleyball, basketball etc. This, of course dropped out with the various event production crunches and other “emergencies” wiping out lots of sleep time.

    The pool or Clipper ship or Star of California was originally built in ’82 on advices by LRH and was supposed to be an LRH space as he didn’t have a pool at his house at the time. So, it was limited as to it’s usage by staff.

    Local public were given tours by PR’s saying it was constructed as a “set” during “open houses” on Sundays.

    In the late 80’s, it became used for SO days and celebrations like DM’s birthday parties. Then when Celebs/VIPs started to be brought in to the Int Base to get “case handling”, it became their dining/lounge area. This included TC, Andrea Morse who was his assistant, Mimi Rogers, Nicole, JT, Kirstie Alley, Lee Purcell, Feshbachs, etc. TC’s family (mother, sisters etc.) had a big Thanksgiving dinner in ’90 at this facility. The G’s cottages were not good enough so TC and Monique stayed at LRH’s house in the 2000’s. Anyone who was in the SO or staff knows it’s not OK to use LRH’s spaces as it’s off limits to anyone else, per issue. Only the Household unit is supposed to have access to clean and maintain it.

    The green room at the Castle were for other Celeb/VIP/talent like Larry Anderson and Jason Beghe. The green room at the Music Studio for guys like Edgar Winter, Isaac Hayes, and those talent for recording albums etc.

    The berthing buildings were at the planning stages in the late 80’s and took decades to complete, wasting millions in having to pay rent at apartment buildings in Hemet and buses.

    Worker’s paradise? I think not. No workers shown in the video. Perhaps that was done so that if the talent on the video leave, the videos don’t have to be re-done like the Orientation film.

    The video seems to be very similar to the Idle Orgs videos with glitzy mest and no sign of intelligent life.

  200. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Sinar. An accurate, straight-forward description.

  201. martyrathbun09

    Ask him.

  202. Also interesting is the different colored tiles on the roof of the building.

    LRH had established a Scottish motif for the base of blue roof tiles – obviously DM and RTC is not subject to that!

  203. Theo Sismanides

    Sinar, I am just reading LRH PDC lecture 33, the Anatomy of the Genetic Entity. I had great wins on reading about how to treat the body, haha. I am not going to order any sushi tonight!!

  204. martyrathbun09

    Good point Sinar, among quite a number of more important LRH policies.

  205. There is blatant evidence that David Miscavige is operating in direct conflict to Hubbard’s policy. That has been established. The mystery for me is WHY?

    So, I am curious if anyone here knows if DM has even read that much of Hubbard’s policy on managment? What is his training level in managment? Maybe he is only staff status 2?

    Also, DM did deliver a lot of cash to Hubbard when the from the mission network plunder. Was the CofS sold to Miscavige? Because if he paid Hubbard for it he can actually do whatever
    he wants with what he got handed.

    If he did pay for it, should he disclose this to everyone? That he managed to pay Hubbard for the CofS. Because if he privatley owns it, it is none of our business what he is doing. But I think the staff should be told?

  206. That is definitely incredible! But then again, I guess the only resource to show his “upstats” is glitzy Mestology!

  207. Dear Dave, Thank you so much for the awesome videos. You really handled me. Here I was listening to ALL these people who were actually THERE and said they witnessed abuses. But now I can clearly see that there are beautiful BUILDINGS there. Wow, that handles everything. Obviously because there is such beautiful MEST, these guys are ALL big fat liars.

    Some of my friends just don’t get it. They were complaining that the videos were “slimy.” But I think what they meant to say was “slick.” And one even went so far as to complain that there were no staff members shown enjoying all those amenities. But you and I know that the video was probably shot on Ping Pong Tournament Day, so everyone was inside at the Rec Room…Duh!

    Anyway, I was thinking that maybe you and Danny should have a picnic with the staff later today or tomorrow (after golf of course) and discuss how to make the next videos just as good. You know the ones…where you explain why Super Power which is the answer to all the evils of the world (according to the latest promo) has taken 20 years with no opening in sight, or what happened to the Saint Hill Size Orgs, or what happened to OTIX and X, or how you’ve altered the tech. Stuff like that.

    Oh and one more thing…you guys had me rolling on the floor on that Rathbone bit. You Int. Management guys are such a hoot!

  208. Oh my…! lol

    Things I’ve learnt today:

    – A slave camp is not actually a slave camp if it looks pretty and has a fountain.

    – Mike Rinder is a disgusting “beer drinker”. Here he is sipping on a can of Bud Light. He is clearly a brazen alcoholic that cannot be trusted.

    – Anderson Cooper is clearly a liar. Look at his silky t-shirt!!!

    – (My personal fave) Marty, Jeff and Tom are all obviously in cohoots because…they have the same facial hair.

    Now THAT’S journalism! 🙂

  209. Boo-yah Jackson, don’t hold your breath.

    JT is a great guy. One time while we were serving him, Bonnie told him it was my birthday and he had her get me a carton of Camels from the canteen as a present, which was a big surprise.

    Unfortunately he got involved with DM and Battlefield Earth, after which he, Kelly & director Roger Christian got a big tour of the Base and 5 course fancy dinner at LRH’s house, which DM built for 30M.

  210. Nightmares Getting Less

    I told my non- scntist Aunt and Uncle to watch CNN AC360 show when it aired(they’ve known about Scn for decades), and they couldn’t believe of what a coward DM was for not showing up on the show, and sending the stepford wives and the former ED INT acting like a 7 year old boy having a fit in his place.

    Now having sat through this 3 part video series on freedommag.org, I almost puked on my keyboard. We should re-name the Int Base- Biggest Idle Base on the planet.

  211. slimedroid…er, ‘scuse me, snowhite

    if what you say is true, that means the Master of Mest is not a Sea Org Member. Seems right.

  212. To my friend, Lee, in STB….

    This is what you choose to protect and defend?
    Used to be that good Scientologists defended and protected LRH…SOURCE. Get it?
    I thought better of you. Thought you were smarter.
    Why don’t you find the answers to the questions you were recently asked by somebody who has more balls than you do. Where is Heber? What happened to Debbie Cook? Why is Guillame Leserve no longer ED Int? Why is your org still struggling, almost closed, despite all the wonderful ‘programs’ being run from RTC?
    How come you and your wife haven’t gone back into the Sea Org? Wouldn’t be as much freedom as you have now, would it?
    Have a nice day.

    Love, Eileen

  213. I heard he paid Hubbard 450 million for the CofS and raised the money from sending the finance police out to get it from the mission network, which they did.

    He acts like it is a privately owned company and he is the sole owner.

    What we may be seeing as outpoints could be simple reality.

    The point is then, it is not a Church as it is displayed. And we already know all of the documentaion of the legal structure is bogus.

    Let’s face it, in reality it is a privatley owned company and the owner is David Miscavige.

    His crime is that he is not paying wages to his employees under the “Church” banner.

    If they rip his “relgious” status, he just becomes sole proprietor.

    If he is owner IN FACT (a legal term), he is obligated in many ways, for many people for many things.

    But I think , I mean, I myself see it very clearly without charge when I look at him as the sole owner of the place. Because then everything makes sense.

    He behaves with all the rights of the sole owner of a company.

  214. I mean, he sure isn’t taking orders from Hubbard, or anyone else.

  215. krautanon

    CofM was NOT a creation of LRH, get your targets straight. If you can.

  216. This is it!

    The HOT button Money.

    The message “THS IS WHAT YOUR BUYS”, “HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY IT?”, with a list of outpoint (like the above post) will outrage or a least soften enough the hardliners IMO, because it’s visable and can’t be justified.

  217. JT is a kind, caring, totally unpretentious and very interested in others man. When he was at the FLB he loved going to the Denny’s in the middle of the night and would spend a couple hours there talking to the staff and few customers in there at that time of night. He is real and approachable. The difference between JT and TC is like night and day, I would bet money that he chose not be a chosen one, he has too much personal integrity to do that. TC is not in his class, not even close.

  218. Ashton Traydrill

    Saw the 360 “rebuttal” videos. Actually got bored after the second one. Technically proficient but the concept and the script were strictly amateur.

    In HCOPL Group Sanity, LRH talks about the “mad kings who built great structures.” So somehow having expensive MEST means that you treat your staff well? Since when did having a castle mean you didn’t also have dungeons and torture chambers? Are you seriously thinking we’ll believe that staff at Int were hanging around on their time off having picnics, playing golf and tennis and generally enjoying the amenities of this first-class resort? And what’s this about the Int Base being open for tours? Guess you mean guided tours like they used to have in Communist Russia.

    But if anything, these videos do make a point. They say quite loudly and clearly that we don’t practice our own Creed and that the only opinions we permit to be freely communicated are ours. We don’t believe in freedom of speech or freedom of the press. Unless we write or edit the story it’s not OK with us. Cross us and we will retaliate. We’ll spend lots of money and man hours on it so that we have the last word.

    You’re making a high production value mockery of our Aims, Creed, the Way to Happiness and our association with any human rights activities. And our Valuable Final Product is spiritual freedom!

    Your “Enemies Made” stat is going up but sounds to me like somebody needs some post purpose clearing.


    Counter Propaganda Division
    KSW Alliance

  219. Sinar, Great to see your type.

  220. Well it comes from the fact that that is the current pay rate, before taxes of course. I did say they are lucky to get it though, because it often gets cut or reduced.

  221. Sinar, Now if you would just turn around. Yes,
    all the way. Now I can say with confidence
    ‘its good…to see.. your back’.

  222. Yes, I agree with y’all’s comments. Also, I was intrigued that 1.1 was the tone used. I thought that their site was meant for Scns and others to “get the truth”…why would you want to communicate at 1.1 to your parishioners?
    Just curious.


  223. Sownwhite – yes, LRH loved big motorbikes, but it doesn’t mean he needs to go buy one with his nor the churches funds. On the ship he purchased himself 250cc Honda motorbike that he would ride around on, then one day West US put money together and gave him a bigger motorbike for his birthday – he didn’t want the bigger bike, as he was happy with what he had.
    Though he kept being given MEST for his birthday all he would ask for each year was for the orgs to expand. Ahh, but there was one gift he got in 1976 that he got a good laugh out of and proudly showed off – a belly button brush.

  224. That’s just about the facsimile that serviced me very well for a long time! Kept me stuck right there…

  225. I’ve imagined propitiation from DM towards TC for transgressions of this nature.
    But I can think pervy things sometimes. ;^)

  226. DFB~I have done faux finishes but this is a particular cement/plaster type treatment involving molds. Just hope some S.O. person pops up with it. Had to ask.

  227. This blog is a treasertrove


    Bertram Fields
    Greenberg, Glusker, et al
    1900 Avenue of the Stars
    Los Angeles, CA

  228. Excellent point and plea.
    If you are the slightest bit trained, you can fly ruds. Help DM please Tom. Do it yourself. Don’t take any excuse not to.

  229. Congratulations Marty, Jeff, Amy, Steve and Tom!

    DMs videos about Anderson Cooper are so incredibly stupid that they inevitably will drive more people to see the original Anderson360 series.

    I will personally use the Freedom site and videos as an introduction for scientologists who are not yet aware of DMs beatings. The perfect entrance point, since the “ethical” scientologist do not have to read “entheta on the internet”, but instead safely update themselves on the churchs own site!

  230. Or as a caller told me when I answered, “No, I don’t have those and I’m not getting them either.”
    Hahahahaha, you’re so cute!

  231. Bankers are the most spoiled self-rigthious whiny characters on this planet. I agree that their work contributes to the military-industrial complex knowingly or unknowingly. But I do not see them assasinate the president of Poland.

    I know your country Greece is under scrutiny, My own country the Netherlands even insisted on it.

    “Dutch government backs IMF option for Greece”

    (THE HAGUE) – The Dutch finance minister has supported the idea of Greece getting financial help from the International Monetary Fund but said it would probably not be enough.


  232. Just watched those stupid videos. What a load of total crap; they made me mad and were also boring. You see NO staff members anywhere; you see NOT one single person; the berthing give me a break and the laundry room with sheets being washed and ironed for staff was a complete joke.

    DM has hit a new level, I think he expecting to be crowned with sainthood! The golf course, basketball court, etc have not been used by a general staff member since the early 90s, just before DM cancelled SO Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.

    I would love to see staff honestly being able to use these facilities; but that would never happen.

    If DM had all these wonderful pictures to show CNN on how wonderful life is in Hemet then why did he not appear for an interview. Because it all crap!

  233. Janis,
    A BELLY BUTTON BRUSH! They make those things!! I have been picking that stuff out of my belly button all these years and there is a tool for it!

    Now THAT is some kinda useful MEST.

  234. WOW, This is what the COS is using to DA the CNN series? It’s terrible and if people are buying it, they are being robotic. Even a non-Scientologist would be able to observe that something is amiss. No public at all in this idealic environment? It’s unreal. Could you imagine any high end resort showing promotion with no people? This looks staged and fake, for appearances only. It was especially funny that they compared all of this beautiful, empty MEST to the CNN offices (probably full of people working).

    It is interesting to view the “handling” when one has been getting all the data. The number of out right lies is unbelievable. I am so glad that I can see the truth now. It is hard to fathom that I might have bought this handling at an earlier time and that people I know are still buying it.

    WAKE UP all you church goers! Your partnership with the church is making you look foolish just like the televangelist viewers that get suckered into donating all their money to for some great cause. It is degrading to see people representing Scientology in this way. How do I know this is true? Look at dissemination. The Ideal Orgs are empty. People would rather go to a shack, than an org. If you haven’t noticed a certain public in the org recently, it’s because they are probably here…reading the blogs trying to get directions to the shack.

  235. War and Peace


    Thank you for a great post.

    $40,000 in cash lying around in Captain’s Bar on the Ship built in the middle of the desert.

    Supposedly “WON” is Las Vegas.

    Great anecdote.

  236. Sarge,
    That is freakin’ hilarious. Hi-lar-i-OUS.

    Sinar, I did the parcourse when it was on. I remember the LRH advice on gettin’ off our arse; “You are all too young not to be handsome and beautiful” (paraphrased).

    I was listening to some of the talks to the musicians, from the early 80’s one time. There was LRH in a control room, with his Messengers and a plate of chocolate-chip cookies. He was marvelling, and kidding the Messengers, how one little cookie could end up as a pound of fat on the hips. I was in the Rehearsal room at Int, and I laughed out loud. I teased Annie about it and to this day, when I eat a chocolate-chip cookie, I wonder how the hell it can turn into a pound of fat on my ‘love-handles’!

  237. That is kind of what I thought.

    I wonder how the staff still trapped at Int felt about having to make those videos? Having to go along with this facade of “we go on picnics and swim whenever we want”.

  238. Martin Ottmann

    I am not sure if I am welcome here, as some of the participants might regard me as an enemy of Scientology, because in the past I had provided information on the FSO to the CWPD or due to the fact that I had appeared as a witness on behalf of the German government in court cases in Germany against Scn organizations.

    Nevertheless, due to the fact that I worked for almost two years in Dept 5 of the FSO, I would like to add something that might be interesting in the context of the on-going discussion.

    A lot has been said about the special treatment that Tom Cruise received from the CoS. In this context, I would like to provide a few personal observations on John Travolta.

    I was a staff member at the FSO between 1990 and 1992, and during that time Travolta came quite often to the FSO for services (OT 3 and Ls). Unlike other high caliber VIPs, he mingled with the general public, he went to graduation like everyone else, used the elevator to the course room like everyone and, most notably, paid for his services like everyone else. He had a folder in the Central Files, and one day out of curiosity, I read it. As far as I can remember, he had paid the normal rates for his OT 3 package and some Ls Intensives.

    Needless to say, there a CF file for Tom Cruise did not exist.

    My 5 cents.

  239. I never knew about the term “wog” until Scientology. I believe that some Scientologists use it in a more derogatory sense than others, although I wonder how many of them know the word has racist connotations. (I certainly didn’t.) Regardless, I chose it for my handle very deliberately, and knowing what I know about LRH and Scientology, I can truly say that I am proud to be a wog!

    Annihilation by presents? I may have to write a blog entry about that!


  240. War and Peace

    Thanks for posting that Mat.
    Although my little anecdotes above go way back in time to days of Nicole and Tom,the repeating pattern of DM conduct is clear.

    Special favors for Tom.

    You scratch my back, I will scratch yours.
    There is actually policy in the A to J policy (Type G) or A to J
    which strictly forbids FREE auditing to someone RICH or INFLUENTIAL

    OEC Policy Volume 1 p985

    Cruise may after all, be needed by DM to call the Prime Minister of a country pleading “Religious Persecution”
    when that country is investigating Church of Miscavology CRIMES.

  241. So lets be clear!! All those facilities do exist at the Int base resort! They are beautiful!

    However, it is still run as a slave camp. Whats worse is that all of that was dangled in front of you as a treat and the taken away. It would have been better if it were barren and ugly. It added insult to injury that all those great facilities existed and we hardly ever used them.

    I am sure Dan Koon would agree with me on this being a big sports fan.

    In my 9 years at the base I used the softball field no more than 1o times and I used it every time there was a game I can assure you of that.

  242. Bryon.
    That is I would say ‘no’.

  243. Freedommag.org confirms the following:

    “Every supermarket tabloid was envious of Cooper.”
    “Cooper must have been referring to the working conditions.”
    “Anderson Cooper broadcast it, so we better look inside.”
    “It must have been the certified slave camp sound mixing facilities.”
    “It wasn’t the offices themselves that make it a slave camp.”
    “That’s what classifies as a camp drudgery for slaves.”
    “The most trusted name in news.”
    “It’s all work and sleep, but no recreation.”
    “The slaves are forced.”
    “Everybody knows.”
    “Rathbun used to live at the facility.”
    “Cooper, he’s just plain vicious and dishonest.”

  244. About Cooper…he has millions of fans who would be hugely upset by this statement because they know it’s an outright lie.

  245. KrautAnon

    It is more honest (and less biased) to look in THIS place for the product of LRHs creation than the ‘monster’ that is called the Church.
    If you see good, truth, light, integrity, love and honesty in this group, then THAT also must be the product of LRH too – at least the same degree as that which you claim above.

    If you can see no good here amongst these people right here right now that make up part of the group you have willingly allied yourself to, people who, like you, fight the injustices and crimes to humanity perpetrated by the Church in LRH’s name, then I humbly proffer that you have a ways to go before you understand fully what it is you are fighting.

    I consider you a friend and ally regardless of the fact that you suggest one of my dearest friends is a ‘loon’ and hope you can find a way to be a little less judgemental amongst people who are open and willing to be your friends regardless of having to listen to (well read actually) words that wound rather than heal.

    Take a page from Cat Daddy’s example of respecting the sensitivities and feelings of others yet still remaining true to his own ‘group’ That is greatness.

    Just sayin’

  246. You know, internally I’m sure all this is easily justified. I wouldn’t doubt if there are set-asides weekly for “promotional actions” or “capers”. Just like putting on a party for staff, public Scn or general public to validate them in some way is acceptible, so are the things bought for TC (speculation on my part).

    I’ve seen orgs spend plenty on awards, plaques, parties, entertainment, shirts, hats, bobbles, etc. in the name of promotional activity. “Hats & whips” can get extended to any number of things.

    Sadly, I have little doubt that DM would easily be able to cover his tracks with these outlandish purchases and/or use of SO manpower. I’m sure the benefits coming back to the church from Tom are far in excess (if not financial, then as perceived PR — or lack of negative PR) than the cost of the item(s).

    That being said, these types of things may ultimately be what brings DM and the current management down. Financial irregularities, indentured servitude, human trafficing, human rights violations, labor laws, etc. These are the very things that can cause inquiries — and with those inquiries we’ll see indictments for crimes…

  247. Pingback: Top Posts — WordPress.com

  248. War and Peace


    Please tell some stories on SLEEP DEPRIVATION.

    Jeff Hawkins of counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/
    posted a really good definition of DM

    Compliance: Accepting and completing a task assignment from Miscavige, whether it is your job or not, overcoming all barriers, problems, need or desire to sleep or eat, doing anything at all necessary to get it done including violating LRH policy and tech and your own personal integrity, within the extremely impossible timeframe given.

  249. martyrathbun09

    W and P, Jeff is a master,

  250. David LaCroix

    The first time I saw those two together, at a CCI Gala, my first thought was ” those guys look like they’re queer for each other”

    “Not that there’s anything wrong with that”

    LOL…but at the time I shrugged it off as just my tendency to think offbeat thoughts on occasion.

    Then the ’04 IAS thingy…and there was that thought again.

    They’ve obviously got man crushes on each other…at the very least. And if it came out the two did a little “grab ass” when they parked their bikes on the side of the road, I wouldn’t be surprised.

  251. Hey, that was really interesting news Martin, thanks for letting us know.

  252. Fidelio, I like the way you talk. It’s a little bit like a lullaby. I can feel your emotion when you said, “God, would I want…” It spills from you.
    It spills from all of us. Our dismay and worse, the wrong indications that because we announce our stand against the sham and lies and injustice, we are catagorized by the Church we labored to build as an enemy by the people we long to free.
    I can let it go by when Fidelio talks to me. Your writing becomes more interesting than the thing I am protesting about. Thanks.

  253. War and Peace

    Chairman of the Bored !!!
    Now Now NOW

    How can you see an OUTPOINT ??

    Heck, 5 million more square feet in Real Estate doesn’t impress you ??????

  254. @ceileen

    Dear Eileen,
    technically and legally it is still the “Church of Scientology” and its founder was Lafayette Ron Hubbard.
    RTC and ASI own the rights of his work, he gave those rights to them.
    Larry Brennan and CMO worked out the corporate structure, legal ramifications and advantages of being a church and were approved by LRH. If it asked for, I can provide the link to Larry Brennan’s declaration, but due to the amount of confront it would take to read it, I shy away from that.

    But maybe you can ask yourself: if it was possible that a person like DM was able to take over the church and twist it, what was wrong with the setup from the getgo to let that happen? Why did our checks&balances not work? How come the watchdog comittee was a bunch of teethless dogs?

    And please don’t determine my targets for me, thank you.


    Dear Sam,
    to the first point, yes, absolutely. I posted before to the effect that I believe that an actual real believing faithful scientologist is someone trying to help others to achieve the gains he himself has had from something he perceives as a very good thing. Not an evil creature by heart at all. But I reserve the right to believe that the thing itself isn’t that great.
    This doesn’t hamper my trust in the good intention, friendliness and personal integrity of the individual scientologist.

    I feel honoured that you call me a friend, but I would respectfullly suggest that we stay with being allies. If I was in your shoes, I’d probably call me a temporary asset. Or probably just an annoying bugger 😉

    Well, for that judgement of the personality of LRH, I left that open if you re-read my comment, just so to not push any buttons. Didn’t work obviously. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are wrong, and there also is a world of difference of LRH in the beginning and LRH at the end (of this incarnation. See, I belief in something as well 😉 ). So, who knows.

    And as for wounding and healing…

    You know, I have been following this thread with particular interest. Some of the people here got really really upset and enraged at the sight of Dave’s bike(s), the silly pseudo-cathedral-office and that your donations and work went that way. I sat here and read and was just asking myself “Hell, everybody on the outside who takes some time on researching Scientology knows what the money is used for. How could they on the inside possibly not?” But eventually, I came to think, they really had no idea.

    If those bikes already get you mad, I am gonna tell you one thing: brace yourself for when you see what else apart from ,err, MEST your money bought. There will be way more wounding words coming via the TV once the whole thing breaks down than me insuating my personal views.
    And now don’t anyone come and say “you’re just trying to scare us”. Its a sincere, well-meant warning: brace yourself.

  255. martyrathbun09

    Anon, I think I’m going to let you get back to WWP from whence you came. Note: save the natter about “censorship”; you guys are prohibited from coming here for any other purpose than trolling according to your own policy. They even cut and paste each every one of my posts on WWP so as not to “boost” my visitors numbers. Just like DM does. Your tone level matches DMs. We are about healing; your comm is about enturbulating. All the way down to your juvenile “brace yourself” business. You have ZERO idea what is coming out. None. Stay tuned – through your cut and paste I/C.

  256. Oh, ok.
    I’m familiar with plaster finishes and stuff, but molds is new to me. Sounds like cast plaster molds and then faux. Too much work for me.

  257. You’re quite right, Natalie!

    Another friend who’s now out was involved in shooting public info films on human rights.
    She realized that those human rights only applied to those NOT at the Int base!

    What a cognition to have, I guess it was one of the ones which added to her resolve to get outta the place!

  258. I commend you for posting that last post of mine and bid you farewell.

  259. Funny, Sarge & Jim..

    LRH used to give us cookies in ’79 when he was upstat, though I didn’t hear about the bit of how fattening they were.

  260. Concerned Citizen

    If DM would allow brilliant minds like Barry Stein do his job unmolested, the results would be fantastic as well as economical and very sound. But a prodigial musician and Architect, Barry works on a lowly post in estates. Any designes he proposed were always amended by the midget.

  261. Workers paradise or twilight zone? Workers paradise with not a worker in sight gave me a l-o-o-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-n-n-n-g laugh. Would someone give Dave a hug, he may be feeling vulnerable.

  262. I looked up Gold on google maps today and it was just a bunch of S.O. staff cleaning brush at the sides of the road.

    That perfect mest is proof positive of just how much slave labour goes on. The staff must look so bad that they can’t be caught in the pictures for their film.

    When you have grounds that huge it’s no wonder Dave had to put 90% of the staff on the RPF.

    All I got to say to Darling Dave is;

    The Federal Reserve Bank in NYC makes the White House look shabby.

    I doubt I even have to mention the Vatican.

    You blend right in.

    WTF?, with all his “governmental” meetings?
    It wasn’t that long ago that the City of London bobbies were reprimanded for taking too many generous gifts from the COM.

    I guess that beats out poor Italy who just discovers that instead of cushy bribes they’re gonna get the blackmail treatment.

    Tsk, tsk. The criminality is shining like a spotlight…

    Next time DM flies over to London he’d better buy some higher wellies, it’s really getting deep, and it stinks to high heaven.

  263. Concerned Citizen

    Hi Martin,

    We met, I was unaware of your involvement with the German government, a year ago, ai would have been furious at you, today I’ll cheer you on as long as you insist in differenciating the church from the philosophy.

    Do well my friend.

  264. Theo Sismanides

    Cad Daddy,

    There is more to this than the eye can see. Just read Robert Kiyosaki an enterpreuner, a non Scientologist and see what he has to say in the book Conspiracy of the Rich.

    Now, we as Scientologists have even a different view of bankers. We know that the real SPs are not even known to the public, they manipulate people and miinds.

    That Robert Kioysaki names in his book the General Education Board by Rockefeller, founded in 1903 as an institution which was to use the power of money not to raise the level of education in America, is just another little, little point of what we know. When Ron has numerous times referred to Rockefeller as one of the SPs and now the Kioysakis come out and say the same things in a different way not using such wording as we do, does show what we are talking about.

    And I just touched a little, little tip of the iceberg just as an example.

    The IMF is what it is, it is an instrument for Global Government and Greece now is another country that needs to fall in line. And can serve as an experiment.

    All those methods and rules and regulations and things remind me so much of how the SO became after 1995 after the New Era of Mgmt was issued.

    Any Prime Minister is just a puppet in their hands. The same I believe for DM. Their infiltration techniques and what they would do to usurp power goes to unbelievable depths.

    Our only hope is to move on with Plan B. I agree with the Oracle. And we will.

  265. If you go to Google Earth, 19625 Gilman Springs Rd, San Jacinto you can see DM’s office building. It’s as deep as it is wide. The picture is dated November 2009.

    Re the point of LRH’s house at Int Base being used to house guests, I believe I recall somewhere in this blog that it was built after he died, at great expense. I remember LRH’s office in my local org and also in the Advanced Orgs in LA – it used to be great to go look into these offices and imagine him sitting there (when he was alive), and then after he died, mentally saying “Hi Ron!” . It was a real theta connection visiting these offices.

    I love this blog! I’ve been wondering since 1978 what happened to Scientology in my area – it bombed at that time, after the Mission holder was forced out by the SO. A couple of years ago I read about the 1982 Mission Holders Conference on the net and I thought, no wonder! I felt I had finally found the WHY after wondering all these years. It wasn’t until finding this blog at the end of last year that things REALLY fell into place with a WHO. What a relief!

    In the meantime I have been selectively spreading the word and finding like minded individuals. Some people are very relieved and a few people still think that what they are looking at is Scn, not realizing it’s pretend Scientology.

    Thanks Marty, Mosey, Mike, Steve for all you have done for so many!


  266. Hi there,

    this is not a troll post, I don’t expect you to approve it, but I kindly ask you to at least read what is written in here, you might find it interesting.

    > Note: save the natter about “censorship”;
    > you guys are prohibited from coming here for
    > any other purpose than trolling according to
    > your own policy.

    There is no policy requiring us to “troll” your blog. Our Forums are open as you have noticed. If you do the research, you will be able to confirm what I am saying.

    As to the censorship: Sometimes, not always, you are evading justified questions from posters that are, and never have been trolls, this is all too easy an excuse. Just like the Church of Miscavology is labeling you a “psychotic” to invalidate your probably legitimate allegations about DM. The only misdeed is that their view doesn’t align with your concept of Scientology and is thus entheta. But that’s fine, it’s your blog and you’re not a government entity with any obligations.

    > They even cut and paste each every one of my
    > posts on WWP so as not to “boost” my visitors
    > numbers.

    Not everyone likes you there. That feeling is certainly mutual I guess. Kha Kha Khan or whatever he’s called has decided he wants to do this for whatever reason, personally, I don’t care for which one. I visit your blog regularly on my own anyways.
    Also, the links to your blog are usually included. Just check the statistics how many are visiting this blog via the link on WWP.

    Whether anons or the now “apostate” exes are fond of your persona or not… that you’re being copypasted must be a testiment to the fact that you’re doing quite a job of at least giving Miscavige hell.

    > Just like DM does. Your tone level matches
    > DMs. We are about healing; your comm is
    > about enturbulating. All the way down to your
    > juvenile “brace yourself” business. You have
    > ZERO idea what is coming out. None. Stay
    > tuned – through your cut and paste I/C.

    We don’t have a position of “In Charge”. You’re trying to transfer Scientology’s organizational structures to anon. This will never work, as there are no such structures of this sort.

    I want to point out that even if you might have gotten the feeling it’s all anons and ESMB exes that are specifically out to destroy Scientology, this is not the case. Yes, there are many of those who aren’t particularly fond of LRH for many reasons, including similar tales of abuse from times long before Miscavige took power. But I for my part will be content once the abusive organization that calls itself “Church of Scientology” has fallen and their crimes exposed. I can only speak for myself – however I believe the same holds true for many other anons. You can also look at the anon video way back in January of 2008 which started the whole Anonymous phenomenon. You will find this video only speaks of the organization, not the belief system.

    I would also like to tell you this: At the conference in Hamburg two months ago, with Amy Scobee, Jesse Prince, Marc Headley and the other speakers from the USA, each and every one of these names was speaking in support of you and saying you’re a decent guy.

    And now to my last point: in that phone conversation you had with that anon way back, TBH, I think that guy did not get his point across well.
    I’d like to restate it from the position where I personally stand: *if* you start your own Scientology offshoot, and the very same stories of abuse start to surface from your “brand” of Scientology, like forced disconnection, the bankrupting of individuals, the dying of people due to the withholding of necessary medication etc., anon will take as much a stance against that as against the current “Church of Miscavology”. You called this anon’s telephone call a threat and it might have sounded like one. I would call what I have written at least a warning. who aren’t particularly fond of LRH either for many reasons, including similar tales of abuse from times long before Miscavige took power.

  267. Theo Sismanides

    Dear Oracle, I am for Plan B.

    And this is the key word, Plan. This is what we face now, a plan to move on. There is a lot happening in Europe, with auditors such as Ignazio going around, with Geir meeting with Scientologists and moving on to do something. With other auditors who obviously are around.

    We can organize seminars and give people an idea of what’s in LRH’s lectures as such data is of high order to a thetan.

    I am reading the GE lecture 33 of PDC, awesome stuff, people should know about this data.

    We can and we have to get together and find an organizational structure and move on.

    Meetings, lectures, auditing, training centers even at homes can be part of that plan.

    Getting together with other groups, who do not know anything about Scientology but do good, volunteers who help the planet, for example, helping them with admin tech.

    We definitely need Admin experts to put in organizing and create expanding groups full of theta… This is one sore point here. This is our first priority. Getting people together on a common purpose contributing to the Overall purpose of getting the thetans to go free.

    We have the Tech, Marty & Ignazio and other auditors are precious like gold. We have to give them an organization of some sort and without committing the same mistakes (how could we, if a DM walks in, we will all be aware this time) get them to be able to deliver.

    This is a big, big, big, I cannot describe how big advantage.

    Am I the only one out of my mind here?

    Can’t you guys see, all the riches we have? All of that Tech and the people who are knowledgeable in it?

    I will tell you one little thing and Ignazio will agree, if he reads this.

    I will tell you half a year ago, Ignazio was without money. And we talked on Skype. And he said this to me and said he was Class VI. And I just told him come and audit us and you get 1.000 euro from 3 people. He did and he got that money and we were more than happy as PCs and we got some auditing and now Ignazio is so booked, he is up to his ears with PCs. So he cannot come here till September.

    Now this is a situation. September is too far. You see, this is not really cooking. I mean till September… I am not blaming Ignazio, I am happy for him and for what is happening. I am blaming myself for not being able to put that organizational form in but I will this time.

    Marty you have already mentioned something on that line. let us know please. There is so many resources around that we now have to put there some stable data/terminals and create some energy.

    This is Plan B now. There is a whole world out there and this is our field meaning our responsibility.

    I cannot just watch BP go unchecked after such, such damage. I feel great sorrow to leave my kids watch on youtube black fish and birds coming out of the waters. This is OUR Dynamics calling…. it’s not DM or any church calling… This is OUR kids and fellow men calling for us…

    I disagree to be a spectator anymore, I was one for the last 10 years.

    I disagree that we are so powerful and yet we don’t use that power.

    I disagree with anyone who is reasonable now.

    I agree with those that are eager and friendly and just do not know what to do.

    We will find THE solution.

    I agree with those who just FEEL and are MEEK in the sense Cowboy Poet put it, they are teachable.

    We have to be TEACHABLE in the New Ways.

    I agree with Marty going like Tone 45 !! I agree with Mike going like Tone 45!!

    I just disagree that we throw away all those resources and the Admin Tech just because an SP made it look horrible.

    I agree with LRH’s ways and vision and my dream has been to create it and pull it further on.

    It can be done. Those who say it can’t simply do not belong to this blog. Or I don’t belong to this blog. We will either move ahead or can sit here and chat for the next million years.

    We need to have that Plan B, now. We can all work on it. Even from a distance.

  268. Jim, since you bought it up, I mean “wogs”, my children are “wogs”.

    “No better than wogs….”

    You know Jim, I think if Hubbard was here today and could take back the one phrase he invented that may be it.

    This is another huge WHY.

    Ask yourslef this, Did the Sea Org Creamate Hubbard?

    Did the Sea Org manufacture the drugs Hubbard needed to pass on?

    Did the Sea org build Hubbard’s cars or provide the power to his home?

    Does the Sea Org grow their own produce?

    Does the Sea Org manufature thier own energy so they can run emeters?

    Does the Sea Org build their own airplanes so they can fly the Int Execs or manufacture the energy provided to keep the Int Base running?

    Does the Sea Org put up their own telephone wires or satellite?

    The Sea Org and Scientologists are wholly dependent upon “WOGS” for food, energy, medical, transportation, communication, and yes, even for money and future Scientologists.

    This “WOG” ser fac, as if they are liability, is hallucinatory.

    Without them the Sea Org and Scientology would vanish as a people and a spread of knowledge.

    Yes, to survive the Sea Org is wholly dependent on WOGS.

    How fucked up is that?

  269. The last sentence is out of place and was accidentally copy&pasted from a prior paragraph. my bad.

  270. And you know, you have these Scientologists walking around too uppity to talk to Wogs now, and the entire subject is getting lost. The Freezoners will not reach out to green people. Go ask Jenny Devocht or David Miscavige to approach a wog on the street! And if we do not get them onto Scientology we all die. We are like vampires that cannot live without them yet we sneer. And that is just too dumb at all! How fucking blind can this subject of Scientology make you while you are going free?

  271. And you know, this is what is really enturbulating the CofS. Marty is out here on top of the wog comm lines. And the Church is wholley dependent on Wogs. And Marty is on top of those comm lines now. He has the media working for him. If that isn’t a bust! And I am all over the wog comm lines. And we are down on the street and we are in with the wogs. And the Sea Org and the Church are dependent on us. This is the trip. And they think we are dependent on them to survive and that is hallucination. DM is in an Ivory Tower. Marty though, Marty has taken the streets. Marty is effecting the flow of traffic into the Orgs.

  272. You’re a fine fellow Boyd. I hope we meet some day.

  273. martyrathbun09

    Dr Faust, Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. However, please heed Sam’s advice – friend or not. You know what a rich rancher or oil man calls a busboy in a Taqueria in South Texas? Sir. People of any station grant respect (or as we’d say in Scientology, grant beingness) to anyone of any other station and he or she keeps that respect until the person who received it demonstrates he or she doesn’t deserve it. I am trying to maintain at least South Texas Taqueria standards in this joint. If you can’t divine from our many months of communication here where we are coming from and where we are going, and cannot differentiate it from that which you posit must be opposed in the future, then you can read a whole lot more before popping off veiled threats. The latter won’t be broadcast here

  274. Hallo, Martin

    couldn’t think of anybody here not welcoming you. As long as you provide so interesting data to the point…:))
    And not knowing what you said in court – just that comment:
    The whole scene unraveling here is certainly much MUCH worse than a single witness ever could have painted wherever he spoke out.
    I for one welcome you (if you please allow me doing that, Marty)

  275. Hello,

    > If you can’t divine from our many months of
    > communication here where we are coming
    > from and where we are going, and cannot
    > differentiate it from that which you posit must
    > be opposed in the future, then you can read a
    > whole lot more before popping off veiled
    > threats.

    Thank you for your reply.

    Believe me or not, I have been reading quite a lot of what you people have been writing here on this blog as have many other ESMB and WWP regulars. And believe me or not, I have read the book of Dianetics in its entirety and done my own detailed evaluation of Hubbard’s theses, which I am not going to get into here right now.

    I know that you’ve been receiving much fire from two fronts, some of it might be warranted, lots of it is not. And the way not few of these allegations against you were worded was quite nasty. And I understand your anger you hold towards anons.

    And I can also tell you exactly why you are drawing all this hostility at least from the side of anons and many exes from ESMB, if you are really seeking to understand the other side. I see one chief reason for the hostility:

    You blame all fault of the current state of the “Church of Miscavology” on its current leader David Miscavige, but fail to acknowledge that even prior to his taking power, heinous crimes against human rights have been committed, as is verifyable in court documents, by the OSA predecessor, the Guardian’s Office. I am giving Paulette Cooper as a very vivid example. Sure, she might have written derisively about the subject of Scientology in her book in your eyes, yet what has been done to her by the GO I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy to live through. Freedom is the freedom of others to say what I don’t like to hear. She paid a steep price for taking that freedom. She is not the only example.
    You are living through a fraction of this yourself right now. Being followed by PIs and getting the usual harrassment by Miscavige. But the SO has become weak compared to 30 years ago. Its thinning ranks are spread on more and more targets. You are announcing independents every week, a barrage of media reports is coming in and politicians are taking action. And like it or not, us anons have given additional protection to people leaving the organization and speaking out by just drawing resources from OSA.
    And now you enter the scene and say Miscavige is the only reason the current “Church of Scientology” is corrupt. This is a direct slap into the face of people that had very painful experiences before Miscavige. To date, in your blog posts I have not seen you “grant beingness” to these people from pre-Miscavige time in your blog posts.

    And to come to the conclusion of my post: I think you and the Scientologists on your blog are a well intentioned group of people. But I don’t see you looking at testimonies about what happened to people in pre-Miscavige times. As long as this is not happening I fear a story like the one of Paulette Cooper could repeat again under a new Scientology organization. After all, the noisy investigations you are experiencing were approved by LRH in an HCO Executive Letter from September 5th of 1966.
    And this is also the reason why I felt it was necessary to spell out this warning, or “veiled threat” as you call it.

    Maybe you could write a blog post about this. It may calm the waves.

  276. There are two dimension here. “IN” Scientology. “OUT” of Scientology. If you cannot walk both dimensions you are excluded. You check out the condition of the people that believed they could not be half in and half out of Scientology. Those are the people that are loosing somewhere along the line. You can and must be half in and half out of everything. You look at the people who cannot “relate with wogs” or function outside of the barbed wire at Int. Those are the people who bought into this idea you cannot be half in and half out of Scientology. I know what you read, but you have to look at the results. You look at the people that have made it up the bridge, and are not PTS to the Church, and are doing well. What are they? Half in and half out of Scientology. Wow! Hubbard said what is true for you, do not believe anything that is not true for you. Why are we here and why do we have any chance at all? We are half in and half out of Scientology. Because we live in a world, in a universe, that is not at all even 99.99999999999999999999999999% Scientology. That we are even half in Scientology is a HUGE contribution. Everytime Mart speaks up or someone else does, you make people “curious about” Scientology. Right up the CDEI scale swoooosh! And you get the witholds off. And this is what is actually enturbulating DM. We are making people curious about, Scientology. Well, they are not.
    WE are. And if you are not half out, you have no comm line to 99.9999999999999999% of the people you NEED in order to keep the subject alive. Half in half out is what is keeping us and the subject, alive.

  277. Martin Ottmann

    Hello and thank you for your kind words.

    I consider myself an atheist, but I believe that anyone can believe anything he or she wants. I don’t think any religion is better than the other.

    What bothers me are activities that are illegal and violate human rights. And with regards to these two issues, I spoke out in German courts.

    We met? Were you a staff member of the FSO? Now, I am curious.



  278. And, this is what happens when people cannot think with math.

  279. You forgot to mention one minor detail

    EU report slams Greece over false statistics


  280. I’m here to flow power to those who will ensure the Bridge is attainable and to help in that effort in any way I can.
    I quit those nasty places in cyberspace a long time ago because that’s not what they’re about. They only kept me in an upset state, which is not going to get me or my family or anybody anywhere good.
    The auditors and tech people out here need ARC and KRC because we are the ones who can accomplish the above. We’ve been the ones intentionally targeted for destruction.
    You’ve got me back on purpose again and I’m not gonna let the bastards get me down again!
    Thank you, Marty & Friends!

  281. “There is more to this than the eye can see. Just read Robert Kiyosaki an enterpreuner, a non Scientologist and see what he has to say in the book Conspiracy of the Rich”

    Two words: Greed and Power. Kapitalists should never be trusted to oversee the markets they play in. Reminds me of the movie “Wallstreet”. Gordon Gekko banks the phrase:”Greed is Good” in that movie. Pretty much sums it up.

  282. Well I must admit I find the comprehension of the English language is high with my fellow German Anons.

    For what it was I think it cleared up a few things.

  283. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. Your view, as a spectator, is completely understandable. Perhaps you should continue to spectate here and let us get on with the eradication of evil in the fashion we see fit from our perspectives and experiences, while you all do the same in your chosen way.

  284. You know, on the Freedom site with the videos? The CofS is saying that was Anderson Coopers lowest rating week ever. And I believe it. He obviously fell for the propaganda about how many people were involved in Scientology. Worse, he must have been shocked to discover nobody is interested in hearing about Scientology. The Int Execs have failed utterly to have the nation “curious about” Scientology. Nobody even wants to listen to a tale about Scientology. And here is the idiot putting up the Freedom Site, BRAGGING about it. They are flouting it! Anderson Cooper has more facebook fans than L. Ron Hubbard, and he could not get the nation interested enough in Scientology to tune in for a little info. People nationwide just are not interested. Thanks DM. Thanks Ray Mitoff and the others. Thanks editor and producer of the Freedom Web Site, for admitting it to all of your members.

  285. Theo Sismanides

    That’s great Tara! we can do it. We will find the solution as long as we persist.

  286. I hope that someday you will experience what it is like to really be in session. There really is nothing like it. We want others to experience those gains and so we fight against people who are suppressing the technology — particularly Miss Cabbage. There is a difference between reading about and experiencing. Applies to Scientology as well as sex.

  287. I got my “clear” totally clear in a DCSI from Otfried Krumpholz. Definitely the best auditing I ever got.

  288. Their friendship is just very special, that’s all. I would put DM as the bottom if they really are “wrestling”. And I wouldn’t make them wrong for it.

  289. Theo Sismanides

    Oracle, yes, they cannot get anyboby to be “curious about” , much less a nation.

    There is something there to those people now, missing the salt of the sea or something… There is no taste anymore to Scientology, it’s like a canned thing. I guess it’s that DM brand on the can that spoils the whole thing. Too artificial now… boy everytime, I write about that artificial aesthetic of the C of M I get sick. All the events and the trumpeting and the Ideal Orgs… and watch who are attending those Ideal Orgs ceremonies. The VIP’s, a couple of them where rather involved in goverment circles. The one in Belgium I think… it’s interesting to see people who are guests and speakers and see the connections to governments they are trying to make or… they already have as a secret agenda.

    Something has been cooking a loooong time now and it ain’t smelling good.

    This whole implant strategy is not just DM’s creation.

    Look for Cathy O’ brien on youtube and find out what she says. There is another woman saying the same things. There is a book or several about abuses by well known politicians. If we are going to stand up to our titles, ex or whatever, we need to be able to know about such things. This is what keeps people and nations, if you want, “curious about”… Honest investigations not a bunch of hocus pocus…

    Dedicated to all free beings:



    THEORACLE SAID: “You know Jim, I think if Hubbard was here today and could take back the one phrase he invented that may be it.”

    I don’t know, I hope that after seeing all the destruction that has gone on in scientology, I hope he would have regretted more than just the invention of the word “wog”. How about the invention of Disconnection, The RPF, The Children’s RPF or, I don’t know, maybe a little thing called The Fair Game Policy????

    I seriously hope that if he had the chance to rethink some of his creations, the above policies would way more heavily on his conscience than the word “wog”

  291. My thoughts on this video:

    First of all, the parishioners within the church are not as stupid as DM thinks and I believe they have pushed their brand of BS about as far as they can and a big boomarang is about to hit them in the face.

    First, before I make my point about the video, a related topic I believe is our events:

    1) Can the C of S be much more bland and uncreative? Can we maybe change things up a little? Not have Jeff Pomerantz narrate every event? Change the script? Change the set? For goodness sake, it’s excrutiatingly non aesthetic to continue to have to endure the same garish sets and graphics over and over and each event seems just like the last one with the only difference: A different set of false stats and lies.

    2) At these events I am always suprised how the same background music is ALWAYS used behind the stupid personal testimonies in regards wins on the Congresses, Basics, etc. or behind the testimonies of the public figures, or behind LRH quotes during the events. Same, same, same, same, same, same….yuck….

    This brings me to this video. In my opinion it was very stupid to use the same narrator as was used on the all new, all emcompassing, Dianetics DVD (which is actually quite good). He is also the voice over for the entire C of S site in regards our beliefs, creed, etc. and now DM takes this same voice and makes the guy say really juvenile and nasty things and he just sounds vindictive and judgemental and creepy. This “positioning” is a mistake, even for his supporters. Deep down, they know.

  292. So sorry to dig up an old thread Marty, but I’m researching DM’s $70mil property shown in the motorcycle pic on this post, and hope to tie it googlemaps info for additional images. Any chance i can pester you for specific location details where this palace is at address-wise? Thanks.

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  295. A little off topic, but I have a Tech Q.

    I did the PTS/SP course many years ago and as I recall, an SP was an SP because he was stuck in some howling incident in the long ago past. (Sorry, I don’t have the exact reference.) I believe I had to clay demo it.

    An LRH quote was posted above as follows:
    “The theory is that SPs are SPs because they deny Havingness and enforce unwanted Havingness. They also deny doingness and enforce unwanted doingness. They also deny beingness and enforce unwanted beingness. This is why we have never before been able to run Subjective Havingness. It collided with SPs, Overts, and Withholds on them. ” – LRH

    This is a bit of a “chicken and egg” question but would it make sense to conclude that an individual can get keyed-in to some howling incident in the long ago past by denying Havingness to others?

    I would appreciate any clarification possible.

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