Pimps, prostitutes and disconnection

When I worked as Legal Executive at Author Services Inc in the mid eighties, most nights I drove across Hollywood from the office to the complex after 1 a.m.  One night I noticed a man beating the shit of out of a woman  just off Sunset Blvd.  I pulled my car over and approached the man rather aggessively. He back peddled rapidly.  I then approached the woman and asked her if she was all right.  As she began to speak, the man butted in from several yards away, “you talk to him bitch, and I will kill you!”   I turned and told the guy to shut his mouth and asked the woman again,adding “you need help getting home?”  She looked up fearfully at the man that had just pumelled her then looked at the side walk and said to me, “you just gonna have to get the fuck out of here cracker, just leave me alone.”  I noticed the man smirking.  I recognized I had intervened between a pimp and one of his employees and the employee made it clear she wanted to remain connected to a very real and present source of suppression.  Only then did I drive home.

Was I wrong to suggest the woman perhaps disconnect from the pimp, if even for the evening? 

Some people who opt to throw the Scientology baby out with the bathwater have effectively, and assertively suggested as much to me.  I have got some idiots running a campaign against me because I don’t choose to listen to their abusive, infantile comm.  Comm that clearly has no other objective than to enturbulate. I happen to agree with LRH’s observation that with the First Amendment freedom to speak comes the corollary right not to receive communication one is not interested in receiving.  It is not only LRH who suggests it.  The US Supreme Court has recognized that the First Amendment includes a right to privacy component. Don Migel Ruiz (The Four Agreements) suggests that for spiritual growth it is wise not to communicate with entheta merhants.  He calls it those who traffick in black magic.

You’d live a life of total effect if you did not recognize and exercise those rights.  You’d also be a fool by ignoring the real consequences of allowing a Suppressive to continue to make your life hell.

I am against “forced” or “ordered” or “coerced” disconneciton. I don’t think it has any place in a civilized society. 

I wholeheartedly advise someone disconnect from a genuine source of suppression, who despite efforts to handle, continues to suppress.

When I decided to disconnect from David Miscavige and did so, over the next several months I magically recovered from a number of long-term physical problems.  I have heard a number of people tell me they experienced the same thing by disconnecting from Miscavige and/or his suppressive organizations. 

Moral of the story:  If you want to continuing being a whore, then by all means stay connected to your pimp. But, you don’t have to continue to prostitute yourself.

317 responses to “Pimps, prostitutes and disconnection

  1. Eileen Clark

    Whoa, Dude!
    I am with you on this all the way down the line.
    That was an excellent example given, the situation within cofm is just like that.
    The only power the pimp had over that woman was what she gave him.
    No more and no less.

    I would like to go on notice here to tell SS of SM that I am coming to where they will be this weekend. Just try to mess with me like you are messing with others. Please.


  2. Great points.
    Good real world analogies.

    This blog and many others help to raise a person’s awareness.
    SCALES – Awareness characteristics
    http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/appendix_a/scales.htm#LOWER AWARE

  3. Good Sir,

    The metaphors you’ve been coming up to explain your positions re DM & co. are becoming increasingly brilliant!

  4. Eileen Clark

    p.s. to SS
    Please be well prepared with your answers, I have a long list and am not in the least bit afraid to ask them.

    Eileen Clark
    Friend of LRH

  5. Interesting, isn’t it, that disconnection has to be self-determined. Of course anyone can refuse to associate with anyone else. Of course, it makes sense to stop allowing yourself to be abused.

    On the other hand, allowing someone to enforce you to “disconnect” is wrong. In the case of the prostitute Marty mentioned, it was in her best interest to disconnect from her pimp, but she was unwilling to do so. Is acting like “Big Brother” and forcing her to disconnect the answer? No. Even if disconnection is the right option, an enforced disconnection is wrong, because it opens the door to enforced bad decisions – like forced disconnections from upset family members or friends who leave the church.

    This, of course, was known in the Church “back in the day.” Mary Sue wrote about it, and it was understood that disconnection was the “nuclear option.” The policy is “disconnect or handle.” To handle is the way to do it, if possible. But, if the pimp still hits you, you leave, and you can’t argue that is the best option!

  6. I’ve experienced a few times that people have attempted to accuse me of disconnection when I refused to accept their entheta on my lines.
    It is part of the Code of Honor:
    “8. Do not give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it.”

  7. Virgil Samms

    Marty, I think you need to come right out and say what you are hinting at 😉
    Very appropos posting. Love it.

    I too have repeatedly asked for lurkers to come out. And you need to come out for the following reasons. This is your Church and you need to take FULL responsibility for it:

    1. As Marty said above, it is good for your health and well being to disconnect from the pimps.
    2. It communicates to the pimps that you are no longer interesting in being a ‘ho.
    3. It takes heat off of Marty. Understand OSA combs this blog daily in order to find out who is posting on it so the can investigate the poster. If everyone came out then OSA would have to DO SOMETHING about each and every person that came out and this would overload them and take the heat off of Marty, MJR, Karen and the rest of active posters who have active OSA ops beng run on them.
    4. It is the right thing to do.

    A few postings ago a comparison was made to Nazi’s and the SS. Some people thought it was harsh because the Nazis killed 8 million Jews and millions more citizens of several countries. They tried to exterminate a race. What DM is doing is much more critical because what he is doing is trying to destroy this entire civilization.
    I never like to use the “big bang” to disseminate, but on this planet we have 10,000 hydrogen bombs with unstable governments and terrorists spending billions to get them to sneak them into this country to kill millions of us. And you sit back and watch Marty get the crap attacked out of him and hope all ends up well.
    We are not just fighting for your right to go in session without IAS regging you. We are fighting for your future, your childrens future and the future off all mankind here while DM has the only solution to the future of this planet out for a joy ride.
    Now the last paragraph only counts if you believe what LRH tells us. If you agree with it then you need to get your ass into gear and take responsibility for this planet, David Miscaviage, RTC and OSA International.


  8. Well done Marty – you have moved up to the viewpoint I have held since 1992.

  9. Marty,
    I can also personally attest to vast improvements in health and outlook since I disconnected from DMness.

    It actually had been years since I was on lines, but I was still “mentally” in. Then, when I made the decision, based on careful review of the data set against LRH policy, I made the full disconnection, and from that day on, my stats started back up. Little at first, and now more and more.

    Now, when I read LRH, it impinges on me as never before. In the past, the LRH data would try to impinge, but it would set off conflicts in my very being. Those conflicts were due to observing the church doing things that LRH obviously would not allow per policy. LRH did not create a system that would make going up the Bridge a life destroying venture. DM created just that.

    What you wrote above is an excellent example of what many are caught up in. When you think about it, DM is preventing people from doing what LRH wanted us to rise to: The ability to observe what is really there, and not see something that is not.


  10. becomingAware

    Well I must say that your Moral sums it up with diamond clarity.

    “Moral of the story: If you want to continuing being a whore, then by all means stay connected to your pimp. But, you don’t have to continue to prostitute yourself.”

    No way one can make or keep case gain while remaining the effect of a present time SP, known or unknown. We have all observed the continuing decline in tone of the COS over the years. This trend alone should be reason for the remaining SO members to question the actual goals of the church leadership.

  11. “You’d live a life of total effect if you did not recognize and exercise those rights. You’d also be a fool by ignoring the real consequences of allowing a Suppressive to continue to make your life hell.”

    True that!

    Here’s one way DM’s church suppresses and thus drives a person crazy (totally PTS):

    Convince him that even THINKING about overts means that he’s a dirty rotten scoundrel. Then, implant the idea (via OT authority figures), that OT’s can see your pictures. Then, send him into any org on the planet, put him in front of a few OT’s and watch him introvert into thinking about puppy dogs or ice cream cones.

    I only recognized how vicious this trick is once I got out.

    Get out!!!


  12. Very good analogy and to the point.

  13. In my opinion, anyone who would harass a whistle-blower that’s making information known to prevent others from getting hurt is just as nasty as the creep committing the crimes – and no friend of mine.

    While I may not consider myself a Scientologist any longer, I have MANY life-long friends who are and I respect them completely – particularly those standing up for human rights and risking so much to see that the truth is exposed about how corrupt that organization has become.

  14. but that is the line that the church of scientology is pushing on their current members. I was declared 20 years ago and my family disconnected from me with out so much as a question. For years they told the rest of my family they had no choice and that Scientology was making them do it. When Letters were written to scientology the Family that was in changed their tune and told the rest of the family that they must have misunderstood them. It is their choice not to communicate with me. I wrote letters through the IJC to my family and never recieved replies. I even went so far as to complete my A-E steps (in hope that I would be allowed to communicate with my father) and started to pay my freeloader debt. I wrote the church a number of times requesting a total for the bill. I was met with either no responce or it is being compiled. I had no choice but to stop paying on it.

    My family that is in the church has forfited their right to exercise free will. They are so afraid that they will loose their road to total freedom that they will do what ever their church dictates. I have never been hostile towards scientology and believe that every man woman and child should be able to believe as they wish. still no communication in 20 years has torn our family apart. and this is free will?

  15. Ne Obliviscaris

    Hi Eileen,

    Long time no see. Glad to see your out. I’ve been looking at your posts. You have an interesting take on things.


    P.S. Guys, I need some help. Recently, when I try to embed U-Tube videos in my comments, they just disappear when I post them. Any ideas?

  16. It’s really a simple matter of being able to differentiate when or when not to disconnect. One very important thing LRH said is in the disconnection policy, this is from memory, but you can look it up. “Disconnection is used as a last resort when all other attempts to handle have failed”.
    Couple this with the code of honor, again from memory, “never desert a friend or comrade in need or in danger”.
    Well just possibly if you have a family member who loves you and cares about you, maybe just a crazy thought, but how bout giving them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they’re not an SP, and that possibly the disconnection policy was being a bit abused. Just maybe. Something to look at anyway. Then the person who declared you gets declared, and then that one gets it. Hell, pretty soon no one will be talking to anyone.
    Be a bit awkward don’t you think.
    There’s enough “enemys” to fight without fighting ourselves. Some of the best people on earth are declared scientologists. These are people who help others at the drop of a hat. Maybe we should give them a bit of a break.
    Ya think?

  17. *Blue flash of lightning insight*

    THAT EXPLAINS why DM is Pimping the Orgs!

    No Case Gain there….

  18. “the Nazis killed 8 million Jews” I thought it was 6 and Scientology claimed to have 8 million Members. Or you did it on purpose 😉 Or it was a Freudian slip 🙂

  19. Uck.

  20. Marty have you ever considered that Prostitute was in a duped predicement alike SO Member ? drinking the Pimp’s And socïeties kool-aid.
    If you work the subconsiouss over you can create slaves.

  21. Eileen Clark


    Right On!!!

    That is the way it is–aka TRUTH or ISNESS.

    Not-Isness and Alter-Isness don’t make it all go away.


  22. The first self-determinism which leads to aberration is the decision to be human. The affinity, reality, and communication indulged in by a human being is necessary to being human. One determines to exert ARC. One then becomes subject to what he has determined. ARC with individuals in a very aberrated state is necessarily a very low ARC. It is not that ARC is bad but that ARC with low-toned individuals is bad. LRH, Advanced Procedure and Axioms.

  23. Any man, who permits another man to be in charge of his pee pee has some issues.
    When you need permission from another man to touch your own pee pee, when you have someone else telling you when how and where to use your own pee pee, and you are running around thinking you are a superman, you have some serious issues.
    I’m sorry that is wrong.

  24. And if you are not the one in charge of your own pee pee, you definatley have no business being in charge of whole PEOPLE.

  25. theoracle,

    “…When you need permission from another man to touch your own pee pee, when you have someone else telling you when how and where to use your own pee pee, and you are running around thinking you are a superman, you have some serious issues.”

    Very very very excellent point!

    Of course, my pee pee IS superman, but……..just sayin’……

  26. You are Awesome !!!

  27. Damn!…I like how you said it.

  28. Well done on your Uck Jim. You have finally come up to a level of enlightenment I was at in 1972. Ofcourse, by now I’m many levels above that, but you’ll get there eventually if you keep at it.

  29. Everybody disconnects. They may not know all the tech, but they either disconnect of their own free will or they become PTS to someone in their life at one time or another. I think a mistake people make is noisily disconnecting or creating enturbulation on the line when there doesnt need to be. Thats where the tech comes in. Being able to recognize this stuff and confirm what probably eveybody already knows is very useful. Knowing how to handle the situation (including disconnection) smoothly and safely is vital too. Theres a lot of “critics” and enemies of Scientology that are infact suppressive IMO. Just because independents are at conflict with the church and seeking reform doesnt then mean that every person in conflict with the church is on “the right side”. I keep saying it and I know it’s not all that popular here, but that is why I choose not to have connection with or comm with Anonymous. I think it’s a mistake for any Scientologist to ally with them. For me that includes any thought that they are “useful”. That is a generality, but there is a group dynamic and group agreement of Anonymous which I am referring to.

    Maybe the biggest thing wrong with the COS is that you cannot disconnect from it. If you could disconnect and join some other group you felt was more true to LRH’s Scientology as in other religions, it would be fine, but they dont like that. They sue and attack you and control your family and friends into disconnecting from you.

  30. Ooh. Waiting for the Logan come-back. This is gonna be fun.

  31. Thought Provoking

    This reminded me of a few LRH references that have helped me in the past. It is a little long but they are good references.

    “In order to make up one’s mind to be responsible for things it is necessary to get over the idea that one is being forced into responsibility. Power of choice is still senior to responsibility. What one does against his will operates as an overt act against oneself. But where one’s will to do has deteriorated to unwillingness to do anything, lack of will is itself an aberration.”

    This could be applied to many of the current situations Scientologists find themselves in.

    Should I disconnect?
    Should I read the internet?
    Should I continue to do services in the church? outside the church?
    Should I tell others the truth about DM and the church?
    Should I protest?
    Should I go public? Speak out? Become a whistleblower?
    Should I help?

    Whatever your situation, the truth, the chart of human eval and the code of honor are some of your tools to maintain your power of choice. And a little more LRH which I feel is appropriate.

    ” Reason, the ability to extrapolate, is hand-in-glove with self-determinism. As soon as an individual feels that he has a right to reason, to extrapolate on data, he will do so. As his right to reason is inhibited, his self-determinism is inhibited in direct ratio. As self-determinism is inhibited, not only does he feel that he has no right to move where he wishes or do what he wishes, but he feels that he cannot use the data he observes. The rehabilitation of a person’s self-determinism is the rehabilitation of his ability to reason. They are almost the same thing. His ability to move and act at his own command approximates his ability to reason at his own will on his own data.”

    So, if you can admit that you are not as self-determined as you could be or used to be or if find yourself in conflict with what is happening with the church and are sitting on the fence about something, ( GAT, F/N’s, disconnection, forced abortion, and imprisonment for example) I suggest you apply one of the three valid therapies. Being stuck is abberated,, application of LRH’s Scientology can help.

  32. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    “I wholeheartedly advise someone disconnect from a genuine source of suppression, who despite efforts to handle, continues to suppress.”

    So do I!

    My reality is that most church scientologists are so PTS (thus stupid, ie., the unknownness of time, form, place, and event DSTD) … that they cannot even see the necessity to handle anything … let alone disconnect from their ruthless source of hidden suppression, which they don’t see.

    The blinder (David Miscavage and friends) is doing the blinding of church scientologists.

    (And he is supposed to be the savior of the blind leading the blind with GAT? lol. ROTFLMAO)

    Instead of making the able more able, David Miscavage is making the able more UNable with is false (and black) scientology.

    If you’re a church scientologists still under the influence of upper church squirrel management, I wholeheartedly implore you to see if you are missing “time, form, place, and event” regarding the fallout you’re witnessing.

    You’re reading on this blog right now from some of the brightest scientologists on the planet I’ve ever seen, who have a HUGE amount of confront. KEEP READING.

  33. Marty wrote: “I wholeheartedly advise someone disconnect from a genuine source of suppression, who despite efforts to handle, continues to suppress.”

    What efforts to handle can one use on a genuine source of suppression?

  34. I just “defriended” some people on facebook, I knew that are known OSA deputies, or have suggested disconnection from others in the past, after reading this post. A relatively trivial action, but it does feel good knowing that my actions aren’t being monitored by them anymore, or worrying that some smear campaign against me wont be waged after I post something on Marty’s blog, or having to worry if something I posted is noticed, because it does not toe the line.

  35. In a word.

    Or is that a sound?

  36. Relax, the game of “dick police” is just whole-track dramatization.

  37. Hi Amy –

    As Marty has admitted from time to time, he has fair-gamed a lot of people in the past for the Cult.

    Those people simply, and I believe understandably, do not trust him. Marty has taken some steps to regain the trust of some of the people he has fair-gamed in the past.

    Marty might think that the rest of these people are just too “low-toned” and “punk-like” to bother with. Or that sullying himself with human trash like these people will never get him anywhere.

    But these were people who were the whistle-blowers before Marty, and were doing something about the human rights abuses of the Cult, and Marty harassed the hell out of them for doing exactly what he himself is doing now.

    If you think about that, then it’s pretty easy to understand why so many people who got out of Scientology prior to 2005 distrust Marty Rathbun.

    Publishing this comment on his own blog – I believe – is a sign that Marty Rathbun might be becoming someone who can be trusted.

  38. Nicely put Marty. I like a good analogy with a harsh punch line.

    What’s worse? A being that wholesale murders, implants, entraps and spiritually destroys civilizations? RJ67. Or a man that has the solution to that entrapment and destruction at his disposal organizationally and perverts and destroys the means to achieve spiritual freedom?

    I guess it’s a toss up for the number 1 spot and at best he comes up number 2.

    Davey, your die is already cast, you will be remembered this way. Count on it buddy. How about you others?

  39. I just want to share this. It shows how “victims”or survivors as I like to call them nowadays get doubbly screwed after the fact. I just wabnt to show how the male mentallity goes about shouting it’s big mouth of.

    “If you look closely you will find that most of the “victims” of Scientology
    are women. These women are truly victims, not of Scientology, but rather of
    themselves. For the most part they want to be victims, it is all they know.
    Their lives “after” Scientology are supposedly ruined but look at their
    lives before. They sought out Scientology because they were aimless in life,
    waiting for things to happen to them. Scientology promised a fuller life for
    those willing to work for it. These women did not work for it, they fell
    into their standard victim pattern. These women have no will of their own.
    Now they cluster together in forum such as this one to further their
    victimization. They have no lives except being victims. Victims are
    volunteers, they sanction whatever “bad” happens to them. You’ve seen these
    types – everything bad seems to happen to them. That is what they want, that
    is what they live for. Scientology tried to pull them out of their victim
    mentality but the fought that because it is all they are and without it they
    are even less.”

    Real things happened to real people and their demands are valid.

  40. I’d like to make two comments and hope they are taken in the spirit they are intended — to help people make up their own minds and think for themselves.

    1) Insisting on this blog that the “lukers” don’t take responsibility unless they “come out into the open” appears to me an attempt to use this groups pressure in order to urge others to disconnect, rather than allowing them to make their own self determined choices. Isn’t this then a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

    2) The 3rd MV event this year gives a lot of data and graphic specifics on what is being done with IAS funds for the 3rd and 4th dynamic. The event is well worth watching and should be seen by all here, if for no other reason than to ensure KSW and LRH’s PL on “Look Don’t Listen” continues to be applied by all sides.

  41. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for this. Lurkers are a perfect example. OSA is paying people to remain anonymous and post comments very much like yours. I learned today that they are even paying a private investigator to run blogs designed to disaffect people with me. Sounds like you really were impressed with all IAS is allegedly doing for the 3rd and 4th dynamics.

  42. martyrathbun09

    Allen, your A=A=A sophisms qualifies as communication intended to enturbulate. I’ve wasted far too much time arguing with the likes of you. Adios Muchacho

  43. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, it is not too pleasant having agents posing as friends stabbing one in the back.

  44. martyrathbun09

    What’s your point? You want to play some semantics game?

  45. martyrathbun09

    Right Wayne. Their entire problem is that they are intimately connected with the worst kind of suppressive.

  46. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for that bit of sanity Karen.

  47. Wasn’t it the fact of DM disconnecting from you in 2004 that led to his current PR nightmare?

    If everyone rushes to disconnect from each other without really doing anything to handle, then we will all individuate apart and lose the game.

    Divide and conquer.

    The appropriate LRH lecture on the subject is Rugged Individualism.

    You insist the war is between you and DM, but who is third partying you two against each other?

  48. Allen,
    Know why your bullshit got posted? Because it illustrates what was said in the original post to perfection:
    “I have got some idiots running a campaign against me because I don’t choose to listen to their abusive, infantile comm.”
    You and your fellow crony bunch of self-righteous, know-best, we did it before you, we so much better than you are na na na na na poo poo can take your imbecilic innuendos that Marty can’t be trusted or has some kind of damage he can make up to you by grovelling in reverence to your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it where the sun don’t shine!
    Is that sudden enough you moron?

  49. 200.000.000 splashed om Miscavige himself and still counting.
    Enjoy your future implanting at the Maiden Voyage Events

    Heey DUDE link us to that MV shit if you really care or put the video up !

  50. I’ve been a self-determinist since I was about eight years old. My dad told me that I could do anything I set my mind to and I took him for his word.

    “I love the idea of having control over my life and creating my own destiny. That’s why I love movies like The Matrix and Cinderella Man, where individuals overcome astronomical odds to create their own destiny.”


  51. All should be in “brackets”

  52. “Publishing this comment on his own blog – I believe – is a sign that Marty Rathbun might be becoming someone who can be trusted.”


  53. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, we’d love to see them – outside the IMPLANT FACTORY.

  54. martyrathbun09

    What war? Dude, you got it 180 degrees twisted. I severed the connection from Miscavige – not the other way around.

  55. Austin John :

    Yes, the PR positioning of a Pimp and a Whore does have positioning value.
    The one only thing a pimp wants, is the money.
    He wants nothing else.

    DM’s Church more than anything wants to suck out as much mega bucks as they can from every single parishioner.
    Many folk originate how they were clear last lifetime and are back.
    This is quite a common occurrence to see when you are on CS lines.

    Now let’s think about this. Has anyone been found to be declared an SP in a past life? Has anyone surfaced saying they were declared last lifetime ?
    And if so, would it stop them from being allowed to donate mega bucks ?

    Do you think there is any IAS or Ideals Org reg that would turn down $$$$$ based on last life identity ?

    As a previous poster used to say as his slogan ~~
    Will that be Visa ? Master Card ? or American Express ?

  56. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Yes, absolutely … clearly the WORST kind of suppressive imaginable. I can think of no other more evil suppressive act to humanity than totally DERAILING scientology and in turn CAUSING the prevention of clearing the planet.

    I don’t know an overt worse than ruining scientology.

    That’s exactly what David Miscavage did “for” scientology in the church.

    Anybody remember in 1978 where we talked excitedly about clearing the planet by 2000. Boy did that get derailed! We are so much further away from that now as the situation on Earth today is way worse than then.

    Worse now than in 1978? How can down stats like that be justified by church scientologists?

    If the church has been so effective in applying the tech, why is the 4th dynamic in worse condition today?

    Could it be that tech is not being applied? Could it be the WRONG tech is being applied? (I know, of course, independent scientologists already know the answer.)

  57. Marty,

    With this missive of yours I had to leave the abode and go visit some friends at a local cafe. You know, that change of space thing. I’ve gone up and down the tone scale since I read your latest. Here’s why:

    When I consider the fact that anyone would give you shit for being there and communicating, my jaw drops to my chest. You’ve observed and
    experienced some crap that most would consider nightmarish.

    For some background, I’m considered to be a “trouble-maker” among some non-scientology friends. ( Funny though that they clamor for more conversations (sessions?).) To the point, I consider it a duty to help others, not only see that they are in a prison, but to begin to clang their cups against the jail bars. But that’s not enough.

    When I completed Exec Status One I knew how to operate with an Admin Scale, i.e. how to conceive of an Ideal Scene and up and down the scale so that it works.

    Back to my “trouble-making”. I feel it a duty to convey my understanding of the current scene and some solutions…

    I am known to point out that I understand that “We Come Back”. (No, not as the Sea Org slogan.) And with that I try to point out WHAT are we coming back to. That’s the choice, there is a decision, is it going to be a “heaven or a hell”. As such, what is one doing about it. This is where the gears start to roll and admin scales can start to be filled in.

    Where am I going with this? Here it is.

    Anyone causing trouble for Marty or Mike or Karen or anyone else who is trying to clean up the disastrous effects that David Miscavige and/or his minions and henchmen have wrought upon us, collectively or individually, please shut the fuck up. Trust me. You will benefit in the now and in the end.

    It’s just that quintessential howling mad dogs get under my skin.

    Respectfully yours,

    Tom Gallagher

    p.s Here’s a little song to mark my intention-

  58. David Miscavige is a murderer in my book. I said it Davey Boy. You are a murderer. Want another PR disaster in the Netherlands ? Sue me you Nipplehead.

  59. I wanted to find the video about him being in the RPF but you OSA slaves done well for your slavemaster having it removed from youtube.

  60. You all went up to my level 😉 Next level we are going to fight giant spiders from Mars

  61. Independent Scientologist

    I’ve got a question that I hope somebody can answer.

    I was restudying my PTS/SP course pack today and came across HCOPL 23Dec65, revised 8Jan91. The revisions are NOT marked.

    In my opinion, this PL lists an astonishing number of suppressive acts, including “Failure to handle or disavow and disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts.” So I take that to mean that if a Class VIII auditor is declared an SP, and I have a steady comm line in with that auditor, even if all we talk about is the weather, I am ALSO a candidate for an SP declare.

    Did LRH really write this and intend this kind of disconnection (based on the threat of an SP declare)? And did he also write the full laundry list of suppressive acts? Or was this PL tampered with? My wife’s recollection is that the original version was MUCH shorter.

  62. Jonathan – go to Qual and get word cleared.

  63. Hey Marty – I’m keeping track of OSA Operatives. Keeee-ryst they are coming out like mad right now. Hey 8008 My name is Tom Martiniano. I am free. Who are you? Are you FREE to tell me?

    ML Tom

  64. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    8008, that’s great you 100% support “to help people make up their own minds and think for themselves.” Most others here, including myself, and I’m sure Marty, support this freedom too.

    On #2 …

    Speaking of stats, KSW, and the wise “Look Don’t Listen” concept …

    Can you explain to me why top management is no longer printing actual reprints of the books written “by L. Ron Hubbard”? (the versions that existed when he was alive)

    I know you want to KSW. So do I. As far as I know, so does everybody else here. Obviously, it’s important we have the ACTUAL copies (reprints) of the works by L. Ron Hubbard to correctly and safely study, don’t you agree?

    Clearly, anything less than “by L. Ron Hubbard” works is alter-is and squirrel scientology. With just a little “Look Don’t Listen” obnosis, it’s easy to find the alterations and deletions of later non-LRH books compared to the original “by L. Ron Hubbard” books when he was alive.

    How do you align this fact with what you’re being told at events?

    Has it ever occured to you to wonder why source authorship is no longer acknowledged with “By L. Ron Hubbard”?

  65. Allen
    I know a lot of people that got out earlier. I also know the
    bitch sessions that I have listened to over the years from many
    factions outside the church. The infighting and lack of unity
    many times because of someones own button on self importance
    has gotten no traction.
    What Marty has been able to do is get more traction towards a
    common goal in the last year than all before have.

    SO we should all applaud the effect and not bitch about it. Marty, Mike, Amy, JB ect owe no amends to anyone. You really need to LOOK at WHO is ACTUALLY spreading that line and FIND OUT what thier ACTUAL intentions are.

    Marty: You rock and this blog rocks.

  66. Hi Marty!
    Great post. The comparison to prostitution is very applicable.
    If you give more than what you get back, you’re being taken for a ride. Plain. Simple.

  67. Jean-François Genest

    Dear 8008,
    « … rather than allowing them to make their own self-determined choices.»

    The difference is that the “lurkers” are obviously NOT self-determined.
    There is definitely a factor of non-confront, fear of loss, fear of rejection, fear of retribution.

    Here is an appropriate LRH quote that fits the thread of thought, from the book Handbook for Preclears, text for The Ninth Act:

    « How does a human being control another? High on the Tone Scale it is by letting the individual control himself as thoroughly as possible. Below 2.0, in the misemotion band, a human being seeks to control or destroy another by counter-emotion and counter-thought.

    « The atmosphere surrounding a misemotion person is easily sensed. When one advances a facsimile to a misemotion person, misemotion is immediately thrown into that facsimile. Effort is transfered by physical contact. Emotion is simply transfered by anger, fear, arguement, sympathy, etc., from a misemotional person into the facsimiles of another.

    « You may have noticed how you can become less sure of yourself or uneasy around people who are embarrassed or uneasy or afraid. This is a control mechanism. You are getting your facsimiles “colored” by foreign emotion.

    « Every facsimile you advance, with arguement or persuasion, toward a misemotional person gets counter-emotion thrown into it. THAT COUNTER-EMOTION TAKES YOUR FACSIMILE OUT OF YOUR OWN CONTROL AND PUTS IT INTO THE CONTROL OF THE MISEMOTIONAL PERSON. » L. Ron Hubbard

    You can do a demo (demonstration) of these concepts for yourself with objects such as paper clips, bottle caps, etc. to get mass if need be.


  68. Watching Eyes

    It’s pretty funny if OSA is putting up blogs designed to disaffect people with you. Who’s even reading those blogs? Their own pod people are the only ones who’d even look at them. Kind of like preaching to the choir, right? This tells me the dwarf is awfully worried about losing his flock……….to you. And the dwarf is right to be worried because he is losing more and more people. It’s not going to stop. They can put up billboards and it won’t make any difference. Tipping point reached. Ain’t no stoppin’ it now.

  69. Good points Tom,

    I am reminded of this video. The more that come out, the more that follow! Let’s have a coming out parade. Break free from your chains people. Experience the freedom that awaits you. This group deserves your full support.

  70. This is the time that pan determinism should be first and foremost whether you consider yourself to be a scientologist or not. Whether you like Marty or not you have personal integrity, otherwise Marty is cause over you – you are than effect of him. It is about human rights and the abuses that go on in the very group that all of us supported at one point or another over the last 50 years. The ARC breaks have to be recognized for what they are and move on. Get up tone and do something about the situation once and for all!

  71. Sam, My god I Love it when you get ‘sudden’!

  72. I have been afraid of the Church of Scientology for over twenty years. When I was declared and then disconnected from it was very hard. My father sent me to the Sea Org when I was 13 years old. I embraced it and became a messenger and loved policy and loved LRH.

    I refuse to hide behind a made up “handle” anymore. Reading this opened my eyes to the fact that we need to stand up and be counted. LRH policy shaped me as I grew from a teen into a man. I have had some mixed emotions about that but I no longer do.

    Hello one and all I am no longer anonymous.

  73. Allen,
    I left the Church in the mid ’80s – just after you got in. I would likely have been “classified” as the “low toned, punk like, Human trash” you speak of.
    A little while ago I originated to Marty, and he demonstrated compassion, understanding and granted me abundant beingness. Your assertation about Marty is dead wrong. You are 1.5 at best and are wrong targeting Marty in present time.
    Marty is the “genuine article” and the fact that you can’t see and acknowledge that puts you squarely outside of my group.

    P.S. I don’t like your blog – it comes off as just another natter board.

  74. Tom Gallagher


    It must be a full moon tonight. The zombies are out in full force.

  75. Tom Gallagher


    It’s easy. Scroll down. See share. Highlight. Copy. Paste. Post.

    You can even Google your question. “How do I copy a Youtube video to WordPress.” It’ll walk you right through it.

  76. martyrathbun09

    Ya think?

  77. martyrathbun09

    Good for you!

  78. Marty, I love the moral to that story…says it all! thanks for the post.
    I sometimes have to wonder did those who are still connected to the suppression do they ever realize that the elephant is in the room.

  79. martyrathbun09

    I think DM must have blown more gaskets about Indy weekend than even we predicted. About the right amount of time to get them briefed, fired, embedded and operating.

  80. That is a bit disappointing Marty.

    I thought this was the forum where one can practice the Scn creed for real and voice opinions and views that one honestly wants to communicate. On source Scientology in practice should not result in personal attacks back but communication that deals with the issues I stated. Name calling and avoiding a comm by denigrating the source into some sort of category that people here despise is not dealing with facts and is not Scn. I know for a fact that LRH would not deal with honest originations like was just done in response to mine.

    You can not have it both ways — stating that this blog represents the true on source Scientology one day and then launching personal attacks against people who have different views that do not align with yours the next.

    I’d be happy to post a link to MV 3 if I had one but I do not. Best to just go to your local org or msn and see it for yourself. That is what I did. I just walked in and they put it on no questions asked and no regging afterwards. Walked in, saw it and walked out.

  81. martyrathbun09

    TEG, one primary trouble for the church is its inability to tolerate trouble makers. Hell, Scientology’s best products are trouble makers. On a prison planet what more honorable station to aspire to.

  82. I geuss they can put you on the Indy 500 list now 😉

  83. Allen,

    To be honest with you, Your comment shows everyone here that how much you and those who left the church before 2005 are craving for admiration and importance. If that is the case, GOOD JOB!
    But lets be honest here, for all those years you guys who left the church, how comes non of you could expose DM internationally as much as Marty and Mike have been doing for the past year which open the door for many inside, including myself, to leave too?

    Another point, Allen! PLEASE STOP using generalization by saying “why so many people who got out of Scientology prior to 2005 distrust Marty Rathbun.”
    There might be a few of you guys who “distrusted” Marty, but there are THOUSANDS of people around the world who truly see the good in Marty and trust him fully, including me and my family/friends.

    Allen, Please get a life and start loving yourself so you can also love others and be kind to another decent human being like Marty and Mike.

    Thank you.

  84. ” I think a mistake people make is noisily disconnecting or creating enturbulation on the line when there doesnt need to be. ”
    I think the mistake people make is living in the enforce band on the CDEI scale. When it is enforced on you where your anchor points have to be placed. That’s not living. If you do not have the power of choice about your own connections you have really sold out. I have always found it good policy to reach out and touch the things that scare me. You should be able to do a contact assist with any situation or person and get your buttons flat. And if you can’t sit down for dinner with a textbook SP you definately haven’t made it on pro tr’s.

  85. “I’d like to make two comments and hope they are taken in the spirit they are intended — to help people make up their own minds and think for themselves.”

    I don’t think anyone here needs help making up their minds. They seem to be well out of a lower doubt condition. If you are suggesting there are people here in doubt and in a lower condition, who might those people be?

  86. Furthermore, I don’t see anyone here who is not thinking for themselves and would want you to be the one thinking for them. Most people haven’t had to go off to the Freewinds Ship to “look don’t listen”. What were you doing on the ship looking at waves and listening to speeched the speech writer wrote? Most people here did hard time up lines and walked the walk and were not sitting in some audience getting briefed about what was happening. They were making it happen. I suggest you find out who you really are. Then maybe you can find out who we really are.

  87. Virgil Samms

    Good man Dylan! You are free!

    ML Tom

  88. Watching Eyes

    By “all sides” I take it you mean those of us that are out; the Independents.
    I think it’s pretty funny that the dwarf is now having his agents post comments asking that “all sides” apply “look don’t listen”. Evidently the DM is now reduced to begging people to listen to his lies. Hilarious actually.

    note to dwarf: Trust me when I say this: I looked, I listened, I left. So have thousands of others.

  89. Dylan, Very well done!

  90. When somebody is cramping your style you you tell that person to put a sock in it or GTFO
    Wog tech 😉

  91. Marty, it seems to me the only thing you coul do that would be acceptable to DM would be to crawl under a rock and die. Surviving, having a viewpoint, communicating, defending your honor and reputation. Holy shit. Thats a no-no. You must be destroyed for that.
    So I dont get the idea that you and DM you and DM just need to work it out and shake hands. But who knows.

    Seems like the wrong tech being misapplied to this scenario by Jonathon here. IMO a “source of suppression” isnt always a true SP type person. It can be a low toned, enturbulated, misinformed, third partied, miseducated, PTS, temporarily insane, drugged, drunk, whatever, person.
    So if you feel like it or it’s important to you, then you try to handle. If you try to handle and the guy just isnt going to handle and it seems beyond your ability to do so, or you can see that the guy is clearly trying to do you in then disconnect. It’s not all a bunch of black and white, to me anyway.

    There is also a confusion between people declared suppressive by the church and an actual suppressive person. There is often a difference.

  92. Dear Karen,

    You are absolutely right!

    AustinJohn, you should also know that DM has been pimping for his dear friend (Tom Cruise) for many years, in order to keep TC “happy” and in exchange TC would pay his pimp (DM) millions of dollars in donation. Great business deal between TC and his Pimp, right?

    Now you can see why TC can not break away from his Pimp and will definitely go down with him.
    Yes! Marty’s post has a brilliant positioning value.

    Thank you Marty.

  93. Tom Gallagher

    Marty- You are a real Scientologist. A REAL trouble maker is a Scientologist. Restated: A REAL Scientologist is a trouble maker.

    Marty, nice to know ya’.

  94. This is a pretty complex subject, with much history. The most complete writeup I have seen on the internet is here: http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_policy-letter_history.html

    You also have to keep in mind that the whole purpose of Ethics is to allow honest people to live, and get in tech. The HCOB “Honest People Have Rights, Too (8 Feb 1960) is the basic postulate organizationally. It was also issued as an HCOPL, and is the FIRST PL listed in the Deaprtment III section in the OEC Vol O that I have to hand. Here is an excerpt:
    “Individual rights were not originated to protect criminals but to bring freedom to honest men. Into this area of protection then dived those who needed “freedom” and “individual liberty” to cover their own questionable activities. Freedom is for honest people. No man who is not himself honest can be free-he is his own trap. When his own deeds cannot be disclosed, then he is a prisoner; he must withhold himself from his fellows and is a slave to his own conscience. Freedom must be deserved before any freedom is possible. To protect dishonest people is to condemn them to their own hells. ”

    Justice has always been a touchy subject in these parts. It will likely remain so in the near to mid-range future.

  95. People close to nature do not have these issues. Spirits of the Earth don’t play that silly game unless Spirits from a far are bringing in their own Drama(tization) 🙂

    I heared alot of male masurbating being confessed and such but surely some woman do it too. I’ll bet they are better in abstinance or fooling the E-Meter/Auditor

  96. Ne Obliviscaris

    Hi Tom,

    I’ve embedded videos in my comments many times before. Normally I have to click “Embed” , then copy, paste and post. That way the video actually posts instead of just the link. Are you saying that the procedure has changed?

    I’ll try what you say. Stand by.


  97. If the events are so important I wonder why they dont put them on the internet? I know some are “leaked” ( I caught someone at an event with a video camera once) and put on the internet. But why doesnt the church put them on their site? Then all scientolgists could “get briefed”?

    There is something about the events. They are becoming more and more hypnotizing. The way the stats and data are presented leaves me feeling weird. It’s a massive, fast paced, overwhelming inflow of PR. I thing people probably get brainwashed by it. It’s not Scientology. It’s some other tech. Implant?

  98. Virgil Samms

    Tom, as far as I am concerned this is the reply of the day.
    Here you have thetans like Marty, Mike, Karen working their asses off to save Scientology and then there are weirdos who apparently have nothing else to do but try to push in their anchor points.
    And this doesn’t even take into account what happens to them outside of this blogosphere. Good lord almighty you would think that the common sense thing to do would be to follow Marty’s lead and help him as much as possible in the endevour to save Scientology.
    So, Tom, I am going to harmonize with you – To those who criticize, sit in judgement of, “point out little errors”, and just basically try to shove in Marty’s, Mikes or Karens anchor points – STFU, get on board and contribute to the motion or buzz off because otherwise it makes you appear like like an OSA operator.


  99. Allen,
    I have never met you so I do not know what motivators you may have received from Marty. My advice to you and anyone else who takes issue with him is this. You do not have to agree with him or even like him, but you had better damn well respect him. In my humble opinion he is a being who knows that power is “doing what your doing while your doing it”. He is a fiercly dedicated professional who gives 110 percent to the cause he supports. It is this quality which makes him indispensable as an ally and a nighmare as an opponent. If you found yourself opposing him in carrying out his duty as he saw it, I am not suprised that you are still upset by the result. The simple truth of any conflict is this; the rightness or wrongness of a conviction can always be debated, but the one who is most prepared and the most fierce in carrying out his convictions will have the upper hand. I do not say this to invalidate you as a being. You have every right to your perceptions and convictions. I am merely saying that if you can get past the mis-emotion of getting your ass kicked, there is a lesson to be learned. It is better to have Marty Rathbun fighting at your side than against you. I am willing to bet that David Miscavige is regretting the day he made Marty his enemy.
    To all who are dedicated to LRH’s theta-cause and opposed to the abomination which is DM’s cause, I say it is time to come to PT and ally yourself with those who have put themselves in harms way to stand with LRH.

  100. Ne Obliviscaris

    My old standby…

  101. Yes, I’ve had that same thought.

    I no longer trust PL’s and HCOB’s that are revised late like that and dont describe the revision and who revised it and why. That alone is a major outpoint IMO.

  102. Ne Obliviscaris

    Thanks Tommy!

    Problem solved.

    L, Ne

  103. Well, I have been briefed of late by a class 12 in Italy doing an on ground inspection. Let me share this briefing with you because I know they sure didn’t tell you this on the Freewinds:

    ” Lots of unhappy campers with the Church in Italy. 80% of Italians OT VIIs and OT VIII are disaffected. 30% of the OT VIIIs who accepted to redo SOLO NOTS “MISCAVIGE-STYLE” DIED WITHIN 5 YEARS….Italian auditors trained at FLAG since GOLDEN AGE TECH, have routinely audited over ARCXs, been out-of-comm with pc, eval, i…nval, overran, ran false reads. SOME OF THEIR PCS felt suicidal after the auditing.”

    “I was contacted by my old friend Donatella Cario, who is still very much pro-Church and admits impersonating others and spying for the Church on facebook. According to her harming people of good will is the right thing to do, if it allows her to get her own bridge. She views David Miscavige as a sort of Divinity and infallible.”

    “According to one of my sources top OSA staff in Italy have embezzled small fortunes and forwarded them their private illegal (per Italian law) Swiss Bank accounts, extorted kick-backs and taken commission from merchants. They terrorize field auditors and driven most out of business. They file false documents with the t…ax authorities against defectors, resulting in several cases of the jailing of innocent people.”

    Thank you for your responsibility in getting briefed by both sides.

  104. Look at poor New york org. They certainly aren’t disconnecting from their Pimp. Since when is an FSM rally defined as an IAS crush reg entheta-blood-fest?

    Urgent FSM Rally
    Tomorrow at 12:00 noon, we are having an emergency IAS CALL TO ACTION for all New York FSMs, OT Committee Members and OT Ambassadors. IAS Freedom Medal Winner John Carmichael has an important message to inform you about. Refreshments will be served. Please RSVP at (212-719-3517) and let us know what type of refreshment you would like to have there so that we can accommodate you.
    ML, Debbie Burke Field Control Sec NYF

  105. That’s a decision to safeguard the tech Dylan, good job.

  106. click on the little “embed” button. It will give you a html link to cop y and paste right in your post on Martys blog. You dont have to do any code or anything yourself. Just paste it right in there.

  107. Not sure about that But Jim Logan has a writeup about the history of PTS/SP tech on Scientology-cult.com.

  108. Ne Obliviscaris

    Marty, (Slight reprise)

    As I’ve been told several times before, “You’re a persistent bastard, aren’t you?”

    Let me try again.

    Speaking of the Talking Heads…

    DM’s theme song: (including lyrics)


    “I can’t seem to face up to the facts.
    I’m tense and nervous and I… can’t relax.
    I can’t sleep, cause my bed’s on fire.
    Don’t touch me I’m a real live wire.

    Psycho Killer
    Qu’est-ce que c’est? [What is it?]
    fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
    Run run run run run run run away
    OH OH OH

    Psycho Killer
    Qu’est-ce que c’est? [What is it?]
    fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
    Run run run run run run run away
    OH OH OH

    You start a conversation you can’t even finish it.
    You’re talking a lot, but you’re not saying anything.
    When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.
    Say something once, why say it again?

    Psycho Killer,
    Qu’est-ce que c’est? [What is it?]
    fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
    Run run run run run run away
    OH OH OH

    Psycho Killer
    Qu’est-ce que c’est? [What is it?]
    fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
    Run run run run run run away

    Ce que j’ai fait, ce soir-là [What I did that night]
    Ce qu’elle a dit, ce soir-là [What she said that night]
    Réalisant mon espoir [Making my hope come true]
    Je me lance vers la gloire … okay [I hurl myself toward glory]
    We are vain and we are blind
    I hate people when they’re not polite

    Psycho Killer,
    Qu’est-ce que c’est? [What is it?]
    fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
    Run run run run run run away
    OH OH OH

    Psycho Killer,
    Qu’est-ce que c’est? [What is it?]
    fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
    Run run run run run run run away

    Hey hey hey ha”

    Marty, I love you brother. But remember, SERIOUSNESS = MASS. I know that this is a serious situation, but the last time I got into a situation as serious as this… Well, you know the rest.

    The ability to laugh at your problems is the beginning of solving them.

    Thought you might need a laugh.


  109. “2) The 3rd MV event this year gives a lot of data and graphic specifics on what is being done with IAS funds for the 3rd and 4th dynamic.”

    Raping the 3rd to pretend to help the 4th. If you want to help 3 and 4, make auditors in the academy, and by and large forget about helping Vietnam with assists. Public will originate on that on their own. It’s a question of where is management directing the energies, It’s NOT a question of, anecdotally, giving bits and pieces to mask the mess you’ve made of scientology.

  110. Thought Provoking,
    Thank you for your excellent post. The quotes are excellent, can you please give me the source references?
    Much obliged,

  111. Yeah, I totally agree. But in a situation where you are doing more than having dinner though I think disconnection, even if temporary, is a tool and a right, for me anyway.

    Doing what you say will often lead to an understanding that the person at the other side of the table really isnt a true SP, they have just fallen into the role of enemy or op-term.

  112. Sam,
    Sweetheart, that’s more comeback than I could muster. Youch.

  113. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    I suggest going back to the earlier PL when Ron was alive. How can any scientologist possible trust something revised after Ron’s death?

    Yes, the full laundry list of suppressive acts is listed in Introduction to Scientology Ethics by L. Ron Hubbard.

    Make sure you read a print of the book actually written and authored BY L. Ron Hubbard. The total ethics book is only 70 pages long, not the bulky and horendously ominous squirrelled version which is NOT “By L. Ron Hubbard.”

    If it doesn’t say “By L. Ron Hubbard”, I wouldnt trust that it’s real LRH. I trust only the books authored by him when he was alive. That seems only logical to me.

    My ITSE is a reprint dated July 1975, with the original copyright of 1968 and 1973.

    I love it because I know I’m getting TRUE L. Ron Hubbard data authored by him from when he was alive. The books are small and light, can be easily taken and read anywhere with just one hand holding it. You WANT to take it around with you. I believe that’s as LRH intended.

    I remember in 1978 reading any one of those light books on the bus, and people would ask me, what are you reading? The books themselves created an environment where people would carry and read them anywhere (because of their convenience), and they naturally made good dissemination tools in themselves.

    Since the era of Miscavage, have you noticed that all the books got all overly bulky (even OMINOUS!), and so you really don’t want to carry them with you? They are scary especially to a new person!

    Unlike before, these non-LRH books NOT “By L. Ron Hubbard” are virtually impossible to carry in a purse or in an inside pocket of a suite jacket today.

    IMO, this current situation was subtlely and covertly done by DESIGN to thwart dissemination.

    RTC and Golden Era did NOT improve what LRH already obviously approved back then. Why did the alter them? Why aren’t new books giving LRH credit? Where is the By L. Ron Hubbard byline? That it’s missing is a serious outpoint.

    How can anybody stay connected to this CoS squirrrel group know just this alone. Did you know it’s a high crime to aid and abett a person (in this case, David Miscavage) demonstrably guilty of supressive acts?

    By giving the squirrel group money, that’s exactly what church scientologists are doing. As COB of RTC, David Miscavage was supposed to be safe-guarding the tech for scientologists, wasn’t he?

    However, IMO, that’s where most scientologists committed their overt act regarding the crazy mess we’re in, where they (and me) allowed and trusted an outer source (besides ourselves) to safe-guard LRH’s works. I and I’m sure many here will never let that happen again! We learned the hard way! Wouldn’t you know it, an SP was right there ready to “assume” the responsibility FOR us and then he totally screwed us and scientology.)

  114. I’m taking dfb as kidding.

  115. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    VWD, Dylan.

  116. martyrathbun09

    well put Boyd.

  117. I think the finest product of the bridge is troublemakers.

  118. Yep, they are pouring it on, batting at dust motes in a mad frenzy. I’ve friends, interested in the subject of Scientology, reaching for LRH books, that are disabused of any contact with the CofM reading the effluvium from these posters of OSTer.

    Gog, what a display of the lowest reaches of the scales DMites can ploop.

  119. Hello Dylan 🙂

  120. JFG,
    Merci. Oui, c’est ca.

  121. Jonathon,
    DM disconnected with LRH and has attempted to disconnect us all from LRH. He is a squirrel. Is this the “war” you speak of??? If so, I’m in it, as are you. Straight up KSW, I guess it is a war. However, it is not DM vs Marty, it is the tech of LRH and the freedom to apply it standardly or having no tech at all (or having some squirrel version of the tech = having no tech at all).

    And we had better win – or what we resist we will become. And that makes me and all of us DM – NO F’N WAY!


  123. One thing LRH continually pushed over the decades was for people to take responsibility and be responsible. As he said: “we don’t want you being good, we want you being responsible.” Obviously, the two are not the same thing.

    A repeating theme in Flag Orders was: take responsibility for your jobs, hell take responsibility for Scientology as a whole, don’t leave everything to LRH. As he asked “why is your neck so precious when mine isn’t?”

    I could go on at length but suffice it to say LRH gave us Scientology, it’s ours, and he wanted us to be responsible for it.

    Miscavige came to power because too few were willing to be responsible for Scientology and he stayed in power for the same reason, not because people support him but because too few were and are willing to be responsible for the whole shebang, the whole thing, lock, stock and red hot barrel. And before OSA start carping on: “willing to be responsible for” is not the same thing as wanting to take over, dominate or run Scientology (over the cliff) that’s what Miscavige has done.

    I’m sorry but to really make a decision about what to do with this mess a person would first have to decide that they were willing to be responsible for Scientology. It may be a tough ask but how can you determine or influence the future of something you are not willing to be responsible for? That is the real entrance point and first step for anyone having trouble with this issue — decide to be responsible for Scientology as a whole, the whole thing and then, and only then can you act accordingly.

    The hooker in Marty’s incisive analogy stayed with her pimp first and foremost because she was unwilling to take responsibility for some part of her life so remained controlled by the very thing for which she was unwilling to be responsible.

    A number of people have taken responsibility for Scientology over the years and they’ve done what they could. They were too few.

    Today there are more, but more are needed.


  124. CD,
    Spiders in your arse?!

  125. 8008,
    Umm, should consider changing that nickname. Maybe 4004. ‘Not quite…’

  126. Eileen Clark

    You have the advantage, but I can say that I’ve enjoyed your posts as well. If you’d like, you can contact me directly at free.tobe07@yahoo.com.

    My view is simple. David Miscavige is a Suppressive Person and I am saying NO to him. I want him gone, doesn’t matter to me how, just gone. He has and will cause as much destruction as possible. I cannot weep over that because I cannot change it. I will do all I can to help, just like I have been doing for decades, using standard LRH Tech. The only way to take him out is to say NO on all fronts at all times and keep saying it and keep exposing him until he does himself in, or as Gary so graphically describes…the villagers take him out. That means standing up to him, eye to eye (or down at him if you are taller than me) and facing any of his bullies. I am disgusted and appalled by the continuing support of such a monster. I am in full support of all that Marty and Mike are doing and will back them up wherever and whenever I am able to. I do that because they chose to act and defend LRH and all he did for us without undue regard for their own necks, not because I think they are perfect, but I have a certain disdain for cowards and traitors and admire greatly someone who is willing to put his neck out to defend LRH and his true friends.
    My ancestors didn’t fight on the side of the British in Scotland or Ireland or the American Colonies. I come from a very long line of tough, piss in your face rebels who thought freedom was worth fighting for, against all odds. No offense intended to my much loved Brit friends…. 🙂

    If they’d had some of that LRH Tech to use then, the world would be a very different place now. Just to make things very clear to anyone lurking here about my take on things.


  127. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Andy. I get you.

  128. martyrathbun09

    dfb, really good contribution. We see eye to eye on this.

  129. Virgil~in ’99 when I blew, I thought disconnecting was my only choice. That was the culture then. I wasn’t gonna be a ho. It was a forced disconnection in that sense. I didn’t think I could be connected and that “everybody” felt that way – they wouldn’t want to be connected to me. It’s a vicious head game being the ho.
    Like you’re the ho and you can’t go hang out with your ex-ho friends but nobody wants a ho out in society either. It made me feel very isolated.
    That dilemma is really where this blog came in for me. It made me realize there actually IS another viable option.
    But especially that I am NOT alone.

  130. I was kidding.
    I didnt misunderstand your Uck did I ?
    What I typed was my version of how I read OTVIII’s post.

    “Acking” someone for finally realized something you have “known for years” seems condescending to me. Maybe it wasnt meant that way. I dont really follow particular posters here or judge them aside from disagreing with specific posts, so I dont dislike OTVIII. I just read his post that way.

  131. martyrathbun09

    Well, they certainly aren’t going to call a Hitler apologist “8008.” you stated: .

    “You can not have it both ways — stating that this blog represents the true on source Scientology one day and then launching personal attacks against people who have different views that do not align with yours the next.”

    What personal attacks against whom? Are you reading this blog or just passing messages directly from your handler? Answer my question, then read the post of 13 Aug Murder Outs and tell me from whence such a bizarre, inaccurate claim such as yours above in quotation marks comes from.

  132. Ne~I had the same problem yesterday.

  133. Then they come back at you. Then you have a go at them. Then they counter with an uppercut, then you hit them with a folding chair, then they get out a knife…..

    I’ve never had to officially disconnect from someone. Come to think of it, I dont know if it is even a good tool for me. The “official disconnection”. I have friends who have Disconnected with written letters and whatnot. It has never really worked out well IMO. One case, the person was haunted and troubled by the person even though they respected the Scientologists wishes and “disagreed, but understood” and was off his lines.

    People still exist. You cant really disconnect fully. There has to be some confront even if you are removing the person from your lines and out of your area.

    I’ve read your post a couple times Marty. I must have an MU or something. I dont quite get it. Maybe I’m missing data.

    Are you saying that people who left the church and are against Scientology and the Tech are saying that you shouldnt bother trying to get the truth out? I’m missing something.

  134. Eileen Clark

    Allen Stanfield?
    I don’t know who you are, but I’m sure that to some you are important and listened to. Not knowing you except by this posting, I must say that it comes off as whiny, nattery, self-important and shouts of overts against Marty or Mike or anyone else here who agrees with and supports them. I am not able to determine just what the purpose of your communication was other than to natter and attempt to make yourself seem better somehow. That is how it came across to someone who doesn’t know anything about you. Don’t know who you thought you were speaking for, but it certainly wasn’t on my behalf or on the behalf of anyone I know because they all know how to speak up on their own behalf as do I. Who do you represent, exactly?

    Just askin…


  135. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    “My view is simple. David Miscavige is a Suppressive Person and I am saying NO to him. I want him gone, doesn’t matter to me how, just gone.”

    Welcome to the show that never ends – planet Earth! Very Well done for standing up to DerFrankenBlind. 🙂 Here’s your torch, m’lady!

    Gary (the village is growing and things are getting HOT)

  136. Thought Provoking

    My sentiments exactly, Tom. Also, I can’t tell you how many times this song, including the artist has come into my mind since stumbling across Marty’s blog. Very appropriate indeed, thanks!

  137. Marty~Awesome to hear those physical problems lifted. I didn’t experience relief from the suppression until finding your blog. I hadn’t spotted the real SP pimp before then. By leaving, I think I spared myself a much faster demise and I definitely spared my girls a neglected existence, but I was still slowly moving down the spiral.
    But now I definitely have experienced a resurgence of case level and theta, tone level, outlook.

  138. Thought Provoking

    Awesome, Dylan!

  139. Thought Provoking

    Ditto, on all accounts.

  140. Eileen Clark


    I really enjoy many of your postings.
    This was not one I enjoyed. It is wrong as in not factual.


  141. Ok cool.
    Pesonally, I’m seeing this whole scene in shades of grey now instead of black and white. There are people who left who were not good people. Just because they grab onto real data for justifiers doesnt make them saintly.

    The thing I respect and look for in a member of this group is whether they are applying Scientology. Guys that are auditing and forming groups and independent orgs I LOVE YOU. You are the main thing giving me hope at this time.

    So Marty, I dont think you should give a lot of importance to the opinion of guys who arent doing this. It means something to me that they are not.

    Also, I dont understand why someone would go to all the trouble of making a website to attach LRH and Scientology. I can understand opposing DM and the Church, but what makes some people go so nutty over Scientology itself. For me thats one guide I’m using as to who’s who in all this. I thnik theres probably a couple things that can cause someone to go rabid against LRH. One thing that keeps popping into my mind was in a Bulletin called “The Nature and Formation of the GPM” or something like that. It’s not in my versions of the HCOB’s. It had a paragraph about people having violent ARC breaks regarding this material. People are reading all this OT data and out of context materials and quotes etc, and then they show up protesting in front of an org and they are angry, very angry. In fact, publication of supposed OT materials is the main thing a lot of sites and Anonymous focus on. They keep putting it in peoples faces and I think it’s causing a reaction.

  142. Wayne,
    From your post above “We learned the hard way…..”

    Theta MEST theory – Science of Survival

    This is not a quote – theta smashes against MEST, enturbulates, rebounds, learns, and returns to conquer MEST. It is ironic that the MEST is the Church itself. Who would’a thunk??

  143. becomingAware


    What Donatella is missing is that one cannot ‘buy’ their spiritual freedom. Never could, never will, despite the carefully laid trap of the Co$. Her actions are 180 degrees off her stated purpose.

  144. Thought Provoking


    The first one is Responsibility HCOPL 2 Nov 1970, Iss.III

    The second is Basic Reason-Basic Principles Dianetic Auditor Bulletin, Vol. 2 No. 3, September 1951. Also can be found in Tech vol 1, pg. 148-50 (earlier version) or in the Rand D volumes, I think volume 4.

    If you have the 2D book, they are both in there as well but aren’t listed by the titles given above as they are only excerpts on references. The first on page 187 and the second on 249.

  145. 8008
    You are telling Marty “you can’t have it both ways”

    It is the Cult of DM that cannot have it both ways.
    The Cult of DM SCREAMS that it is a RELIGION FOR 1st amendment privileges.
    Yet ~~

    The Dirty tricks by the Church’s intelligence arm boggle the mind.
    What “CHURCH” would set up detectives to investigate a bogus homicide
    of a brother of a 30 year veteran?
    What “CHURCH” would call in to law enforcement trumped charges of explosives and bomb threats ?
    What “CHURCH” would manufacture allegations of smuggling underage children to a 40 year veteran ?
    What “CHURCH” would keep its members in lock down on a starvation rice and beans diet ? (done in various So units over 2 decades as punishment)
    What “CHURCH” would force their members to throw themselves in feces ponds as punishment (Read the Book “Blown for Good.”)
    What “CHURCH” leader would beat, strangle, punch, spit on, incarcerate, intimidate, bully, punch and overwhelm his own staff ?
    ( could name 1000 other reports I have received of abusive, abhorrent and repulsive actions but you get the idea)

    You see, the CULT of DM wants to be seriously taken as a RELIGION.
    BUT it is you dear 8008 that cannot have it both ways.
    A RELIGION is not a cult that vampires out mega bucks to have a $1.5 billion dollar slush fund for high priced lawyers to hide DM crimes.

    Report to CRAMMING.

    Clay Demo How the Church of Scientology wants respect as a Religion but acts an abusive CULT.

  146. @xcststaff, your post and situation demonstrate the reality and complexity of the disconnection issue faced by those effected by it. Disconnection is not a cut and dry type of problem. All scientologists in the church are indoctrinated, to some degree or another, to believe they have to put their eternity with scientology first. For the most part, it’s not as if members had a choice to think on their own about that conclusion. It was the expectation and if one could not handle in favor of scientology, one disconnected. The indoctrination happens as one progresses up their bridge in the scientology organization with the assistance of admin terminals such as the reg, Qual and the EO/ MAA. It is a fundamental tool used by staff to control members progress. It is embedded in the culture because it has been used so much and so often because there is the perceived expectation that it will benefit the greater good while satisfying the organization’s need to control.
    Disconnection ruins families. Many of us have also disconnected from loved ones who left the church and announced it while we were in. Disconnection was expected if recovery was not possible. Love, friendship, loyalty towards the ‘SP’ had nothing to do with the decisions to disconnect. They became inhuman. They were entheta by Scientology standards just for speaking up. Well, I spent years repairing those relationships I’d abandoned when I was a scientologist . Some are still not repaired but I never give up hope and I pray you never give up hope, too.

  147. Ne Obliviscaris


    Your post reminded me of a quality that I think you, Marty and others on this blog have in abundance. It’s something that I used to tell others in the S.O. when things got serious.

    “Instead of being serious, it’s always better to be sincere”.

    I feel that this is a maxim that always serves us well.


  148. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, I sometimes use the phrase “some people went out the bottom and some went out the top.” The latter are those who left on integrity and principle that they acknowledge LRH tech helped them to develop.

  149. Oh! There we have it! DM’s basic ruin! “Honest people have rights too.”
    Now, just try to get around that one DM and associates. It’s an unattainable goal! No wonder you’all are down in the trenches exhausted dropping like flies hungry depressed and imprisoned by yourselves. There we go now. How the hell will you overcome that one?

  150. martyrathbun09


  151. Thought Provoking,
    Thank you, I will make good ues of these refs.

  152. Eileen Clark

    Love this posting. Thank you.

  153. The bellowing, over-amplified voices at near-pain decibels asserting repetitive sound bytes in bizarre cadences to pulsating flashing lasers? Ya think?

  154. martyrathbun09

    dfb, I have no idea what you are talking about. I think perhaps you are trying to read too much into a rather simple statement

  155. Honey, maybe three people will show up. DM sent the finance police into New York and shut down two missions in a month. The New Yorkers don’t like this and when they get pushed they push back. Nobody in New York is paying any attention to David Miscavige or responding to his “emergencies”.

  156. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    #8 is the one that I live by and has afforded me the most peace and sanity in my life.

  157. That is a bit disappointing 8008. You seem to be operating with the false datum that it is up to you or anyone to grant people permission to think for themselves.

    you wrote:

    …rather than allowing them to make their own self determined choices.

    If there’s something you think people should see, please post it. I think a widespread spirit in these discussion is LOOK … and no permission needed to do that either.

  158. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    heck with it. Here’s the link – Talking Heads “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5VRhmgUNtM”

  159. Jean-François Genest

    10-4 Boyd

    « Refreshments will be served. Please RSVP at (212-719-3517) and let us know what type of refreshment you would like to have there so that we can accommodate you. »

    Obviously → DM flavored Kool-Aid

  160. Jonathon Barbera – One doesn’t “handle” an SP as they can’t be handled, real suppressives that is. One disconnects from a real SP, unless they should come into PT and stop being suppressive. One only handles PTS relationships. Most of the people who have been declared by the C of S in the past are not real SPs but people who have violated church policy, i.e. they have commited “high crimes”, and even a lot of those so-called crimes are invented and/or exaggerated. The SP declare in the C of S is really just a political tool; they don’t want critical people being able to talk to each other and “compare notes”. They also don’t want critical people to talk to the kool aid drinkers who are in state of denial about there being any problems in the existing church. The church was designed by LRH to be a self-correcting mechanism with it’s ethics and justice systems, but when the very top of the church is very corrupt, the system doesn’t work, i.e. “game over”.

    That said, there is no “handling” for a real SP like Miscavige other than removing him from post and seeing him brought to justice for his crimes.

  161. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Spot on Andy!

  162. Awesome Dylan! Nice to meet ya!

  163. It was not my rant between the “brackets”

  164. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    What I’m about to say, IMO, deserves its own solo headline.

    You claim the KSW (Keeping Scientology Working) is important to you. That’s all well and good. So do all other church scientologists.

    However, why don’t you and other church scientologists focus on the extreme importances of magnitude … such as making sure everybody is getting PURE UNadulterated scriptures in all of LRH’s books.

    (Hasn’t KSW been drilled in enough? Apparently, most church scientologists still have MU’s on this.)

    For Example;

    Did you know the church sells a nearly complete ALTER-IS’d (rewritten by specifically whom, we don’t know yet for sure) of the Ron’s …

    “Scientology: A New Slant On Life” by L. Ron Hubbard (Copyright 1965)

    It’s true! Take a look at the 2007 squirrel version (Copyright 2007 L Ron Hubbard Library)

    NINETEEN (19) chapters have been completely deleted from the above squirrel version. You get that? NINETEEN chapters! Ugh!

    Here are the chapters that USED TO BE in the 1965 By L. Ron Hubbard “Scientology: A New Slant On Life”.

    What Is The Basic Mystery
    What Is Knowledge
    The Conditions of Existance
    Myths Of The Mind
    On Death Of Consciousness
    Accent On Ability
    Acceptance Level
    On Bringing Order
    On Human Character
    Past, Present and Future
    Playing the Game
    Freedom vs Entrapment
    The Vocabularies of Science
    How to Study a Science
    The Human Mind
    Records of the Mind are Permanent

    That’s right, in the 2007 Church of Scientology version, all these chapters are now GONE, GONE, GONE.

    These are the chapters that caused people to COG on scientology! It used to be the perfect dissemination tool.

    Is this extreme evil in the church of scientology something that’s OK with you?

    To me, this evil is absolutely REPULSIVE to me! To see LRH’s works deleted and torn up like this? Are you kidding me? It makes me sick.

    Perhaps it my seem unbelievable to you at first, but it’s true.


    Can you really tolerate this extreme evil of deleting 19 chapters from LRH’s book?

    If not, what are you going to do about it?

  165. Hooray!!!!!
    This guy is an AWESOME outdoorsman! If you want to check out somr good fishing, hiking and awesome scenery, just ask. He knows ALL the best places! Welcome Dylan!

  166. Marty, thats possible. I get amost all of it.
    The only part I feel like I;m missing data on or something is:

    “Was I wrong to suggest the woman perhaps disconnect from the pimp, if even for the evening?

    Some people who opt to throw the Scientology baby out with the bathwater have effectively, and assertively suggested as much to me. I have got some idiots running a campaign against me because I don’t choose to listen to their abusive, infantile comm. ”

    I feel like I’m not sure who you are talking about or what the campaign is.

    Other than that I get your points.
    I dont know what it’s like to be in your shoes. From my comfortable, exterior viewpoint I would say fuck em. I think you are working towards the correct thing and they are not. I dont know what they are fighting for. The right to dramatize their own case I guess.

  167. Few things amaze me. If that video is for real, IT amazed me.

  168. On all the “revised” bulletins and PL’s I read somewhere, possibly on this site although I cant recall specifically who said it, that at some point RTC found out they didnt have valid copyrights on these and in order to “fix” this someone decided to newly copyright slightly altered versions of them so they would own those copyrights. Maybe someone will know what I;m talking about and can explain or source it better. It sounded like a possible explanation at the time, when I read it.

  169. Hey 8008, Grasshopper here. Marty and especially Karen know who I am, but I am not publicly “out,” for various reasons. I will say that I am a classed auditor, and OT, and I have been on staff in various roles.

    If I might make a comment from my point of view on this blog: This is a very open forum, full of all kinds of people making comments, including outright “haters.” You will get all kinds of opinions.

    I know that OSA is monitoring this blog as well as all kinds of other comm sources. They have been doing this for years. I personally have had conversations with ex- and anti-Scientologists off and on for twenty years via CompuServe, usenet, and other means. I always stayed fully anonymous until Karen left in June, because Karen is a good friend, so I “came out” to her, and recently, to Marty.

    Since I am very pro-Scientology, I have been accused of being OSA on some of these forums. I have had people who purported to be OSA DEMAND that I identify myself to them (morons). I would always reply that I have no real proof that they are who they say they are, so why should I respond to their “demand.” That pissed them off, to no end! But it’s true. On the Internet, no one knows you’re a dog.

    I do not assume anything about you – you have been accused of being an OSA shill. I personally don’t care, but will take you at face value. I will say that jumping to a conclusion that some poster is a shill is bad strategy for the people here, because the poster may not be, just as I am not and never have been. Makes the team look a bit paranoid. Why not assume the high road? There is no harm in doing so.

    To your points: On #1, there are people who have the opinion, but not everyone does. I personally disagree. Right now, I am in good standing, and there is a value to that. I have other reasons for not coming out. I might get yelled at for remaining under cover, but ces’t la vie. We have Eternity. That said, I am very aware of the antics that are being done to Marty and Mike, and find it atrocious.

    On #2, if you are a real Scientologist, you really should know that event stats should be taken with a couple of tons of salt. Every event I have been to has been “VITAL! LIFE CHANGING! CAN’T BE MISSED!” If I believed the PR from these events, we’d all be sitting on a Cleared Planet by now, with the ships all loaded for Target 2. No reasoning being is going to see an event and all of a sudden see the light.

    But, you are right – look, don’t listen.

  170. “theoracle”:

    The first paragraph you posted is a direct copy and paste from Pierre Ethier’s Facebook Wall. I am not yet a Facebook Friend of Pierre, so I cannot verify this, but I’ll wager the rest of your post is more of the same copypasta.

    The third paragraph is pretty obviously fabricated disinformation, although who actually made it up would be hard to say.

    (1) Why are you making this pretense of a special briefing ?

    (2) Why have you attempted to hide the source of this information ?

    Michael A. Hobson

  171. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Caution: the following contains heavy sarcasm.

    Ah, but Wayne, the new and “improved” books are larger because they have such “wonderful” extensive glossaries. That way you can study them in the new DM way and not need a dictionary. Gosh, you wouldn’t want to actually clear your words correctly with a dictionary would you?

  172. rory medford


    You are crimping the pimping style of DM and he doesnt like it.
    The pimp is a shrimp who will eventually go limp and fade away into oblivion.

    Poetry aside, the truth is coming out from every angle and people are leaving in droves and the support goes away and the castle built on sand washes away into the sea.

    Keep up the good work, it is paying off in more ways then any of us can imagine!

  173. Congratulations, Dylan. Enjoy the freedom that comes from not hiding. ❤ H

  174. Cat Daddy,

    Honey, you just pissed off countless tough-ass women who post and lurk at this blog with your characterization of women as natural-born victims.

    But don’t worry — we won’t hurt you, even though you are a member of the weaker sex.

    Y’all be careful now and don’t over-do it.

    Just Me

  175. I concur with everyone above who responded to 8008’s silly, oh-so-reasonable baloney.

    The times, places, forms and events reported on this and other blogs in the last year or so completely give lie to 8008’s self-righteous generalities and reveal them to be the covertly hostile lies they truly are.

    8008, you’ve failed at your little mission. Go away. Create another sock. Try again. That was pitiful.

    Just Me

  176. Perhaps the people who do not disconnect from the Church of Scientology have a very strong dynamic thrust on the 3rd dynamic and cannot face the loss of it. Perhaps they will suffer very real financial and personal wherewithal consequences as a result of leaving. Whatever the reason, it takes time to rebuild a lifetime of connections and friendships, possibly re-map a career and rebuild one’s sense of trust. For those with families or business comittments, it may not be quite so easy as just walking away. After all, how did the prostitute come to be a prostitute in the first place? My guess? Dire need. Lack of other resources.

    I think it is very important to make a distinction between public Scientologists and staffs, especially Sea Org. I’ve been on both sides of this and I can tell you that a public Scientologist is simply not privy to internal conflicts and situations. It only becomes obvious when DM does something like order all of the orginal books by LRH to be destroyed or declares them old, or we don’t use that any more. That is a technical degrade. It is a high crime. No excuses for that. Did DM order those books to be destroyed? Did he state that they are no longer in use? Did he make degrading statements about them?

    As far as making a public declaration of disconnection, I am not so sure that is necessary and I haven’t seen anywhere where even LRH says you should publicly disavow an SP you have found. I left a long time ago as far as being under orders. The only remaining concern I have is that some SO member in a fit of make wrong will find a way to have my friends and family disconnect from me.

    I am not really in disagreement with disconnection per se. But I am in disagreement with disconnection ordered to serve a self-serving purpose, to cover up crimes or misdemeanors, or alterations and to carry out actions that are clearly against the spirit and practice of the original materials of Scientology. Does it produce raised ARC? Is it done to make auditing more possible? Has there been an effort to right injustices, to repair upsets, etc. Have all reasonable and ARC producing methods failed? Then it is probably the only avenue.

    Disconnection as a “handling” is quite different from whistleblowing. And it is quite different from not supporting a corrupt group. The Way to Happiness booklet suggests that one does not support a government gone wrong.

    The unfortunate thing here is that some of the acts that are being whistle blowed on were allowed to go on for so long. Before the Internet, there was no place to whistle blow from. Marty, I want you to know that I have read some of your personal revelations about your acts as a Sea Org executive and totally cringed. But I much prefer the revelation to having them hidden and having people harassed and disconnected in order to keep hiding them. I very much appreciate that you are a whistle blower. I have had a sense of something terribly wrong for a long time, especially when cross flowing SO staff reactions when a group of senior Execs pass through their area. They are AFRAID. Really AFRAID. And you have revealed just why they are afraid.

    So thank you for whistle blowing. Its painful. Its horrible. I don’t like it. But that’s my Human Emotion and Reaction.

    I do ask that you do not invalidate others who are in different states and conditions than you are by calling them prostitutes. IMO when you do that, you are simply continuing the pattern that we wish to see ended in the community of Scientology.

    As far as myself: I am no prostitute. I have not committed crimes, Scientology or otherwise, unless posting on the Internet has been classified as a crime. I do not and never did support the crazy actions of the Church, if I was aware of them. I am aware of them now and so I have further withdrawn support, in terms of time and money.

    In any case, thanks for whistle blowing, however uncomfortable it is for the rest of us and thank you for being willing to take the hit. You draw the heat because you were there, but I do think that so long as you continue to stand, continue to push the truth and ensure that you are living the title of your blog, then greater awareness and truth will emerge. And we all need that. Very much.

  177. This statement by Wayne Froemke (AKA “Safe”) is worth repeating…
    “…Anybody remember in 1978 where we talked excitedly about clearing the planet by 2000. Boy did that get derailed! We are so much further away from that now as the situation on Earth today is way worse than then.

    Worse now than in 1978? How can down stats like that be justified by church scientologists?

    If the church has been so effective in applying the tech, why is the 4th dynamic in worse condition today?….

    4th Dynamic conditions are much worse now than earlier days except for the aspect that many people are becoming aware of the deceptions surrounding these 4th Dynamic conditions. Blogs like Marty’s help to expose the deceptions and raise awareness.

  178. Joe Pendleton

    8008 –

    Re: Your reply to Marty where you noted:

    “no questions asked……no regging” I was going to ask what planet that was on, but how about I put it to you more directly –

    What org or mission did you just walk in and out of and watch that DVD? (the name of the org/mission please)

  179. I can make a long list of what I think is worse but I’ll give you a hint.

    “We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.”

    Dalai Lama

  180. Joe Pendleton

    Cat –

    I hate to be the one to break this to you, but men play the victim in life MUCH more than women do (generally speaking). I not only say this as a being who is currently of the male persuasion, but as someone who is very well read and well travelled and who CSd tens of thousands of sessions and auditing for many years as well.

    Name one woman who ever held a grudge as long as Sinatra did?

    Anyway, it was my impression that there were many more male posters to this blog than women.

  181. I Wow did you guys think I was supporting that quote ? I was quoting this to show what kind of twisted thinking men could have regarding to Victims or survivors as I like to call them now adays.


    I just wanted to show it because it pisses me of too

  182. Hello,
    I am a loyal reader of your blog. This is my first post here.
    I will start with a quote from LRH.
    Maybe it explains what went wrong in the church.

    PDC Lecture # 20 – Formative State of Scn., Definition of Logic:
    “Let’s take the subject of Scientology and let’s see if there’s any
    logic involved with it at all. There isn´t a mathematics that can embrace the subject of Scientology, because it is an invented mathematics. It´s an
    invented mathematics that accepts gradient scales and absolutes are
    unobtainable. And it is a method of thinking about things and is
    just as true as it is workable and no truer and is not, in itself, an
    arbitrary, fascistic police force to make sure that we all think the right
    thoughts. It is a servant of the mind – a servomechanism of the mind; it is not a master of the mind. Scientology will decline and become useless to Man on the day when it becomes the master of thinking. Don’t think it wont do that. It has every capability in it of doing that.”

  183. Joe Pendleton

    An EMERGENCY call to action by the IAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yeah, I got the email (though I don’t live near NYC ).

    Please someone let us know what this was all about.

    What refreshment would I like if I could attend?

    Jameson or Bushmill’s Irish Whiskey and lots of it. (Don’t bring a checkbook or credit cards of course)

  184. Cat Daddy,

    I read your original post above too fast and misunderstood that YOU were agreeing with the goofball you were quoting. I extend my apologies for saying that was your thinking, too.

    (Meer koffee!)

    Just Me

  185. Thanks Grasshopper, I appreciate you taking the time to duplicate the intent and concept of what I said. There are intelligent peeople communicating here on this blog.

    As to stats at events — sure anyone can make up stats but what impressed me were the video documentations and quotes from Non-Scios regarding the 4D campaigns IAS is funding. That is my whole point — clearly thousands of people are being helped and many of them do not know who COBs is and never will. Nor will many of them even get to know what Scn is. They are just being helped and that exactly aligns to LRH intentions. So at least in these campaigns IAS funds are being used in an on-source fashion. That is my point and my only point. Thanks for listening.

    And again my recommendation — people here should just walk into the next Org or Msn and ask to see MV3, see it for themselves and then, if they want, just walk out again. It is simple and easy to do.

  186. I agree very very true indeed

  187. Thanks for sharing all the comments some harsh but thats peoples views
    in the end WE ARE GOING TO WIN. AND BYE BYE DM !!!

  188. Thought Provoking

    Good catch, Michael.

  189. Independent Scientologist

    My interest in Scientology disconnection was sparked yesterday when I discovered that I know a woman – a truly good, well-intentioned, hard-working Scientologist – who has not spoken to her son in years and has never had any contact with her only two grandchildren (and may NEVER meet them). What would compel a mother to act that way???

    Earlier in this thread, I had a question about current disconnection policy and someone said go find an early green Introduction to Scientology Ethics book for comparison. So I did!

    The slim green volume – printed in 1985 – says this is a suppressive act: “Failure to handle a person demonstrably guilty of a suppressive act.” This implies some ongoing level of communication.

    The revised policy letter from 1991 has this alteration: “Failure to handle or disavow and disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts.” I can understand the reasoning behind this change, but it IS a change from LRH.

    Also the 1991 revision characterizes many more actions as suppressive, including allowing students to eat in a courseroom. Somehow that seems like monotone assignment of importance!

  190. You go Girl..

  191. Independent Scientologist

    Marty, I have never met you, but if I did I think I would like you right away. I certainly believe that this blog is doing Scientology a tremendous amount of good.

    That said, I do know at least three GOOD folk, one of them a long-time Independent and one sitting on the fence, who harbor a strong mistrust for you.

    Please, rather than attack people who express this viewpoint on this blog, just give them a good TR4.

    Independent Scientologists flailing away at other Independent Scientologists is a distraction we just don’t need.

    Other than that – carry on the good work!

  192. Read the first paragraph of his post again, Just Me. It wasn’t his rant about women.

    Mind you, Cat Daddy, I don’t see the value in quoting some anonymous person anyway.

  193. Thought Provoking

    I think you raise some very good points throughout your posting and for the most part it seems fairly pan determined from the viewpoint of someone still in the church.

    I do realize that hearing the truth can be somewhat shocking when one has spent a lifetime in Scientology, having been completely unaware of what was going on at the top. I also understand the difficulties of disconnecting from comm lines that you have established over this same lifetime.

    Yet, what started at the top has now filtered into the whole network. Gross out tech from the top is resulting in failed results leaving those applying it on a continuous ow/lower condition cycle. Scientology is corrupt technically and ethically. Savage ethics actions are the norm, whatever happened to light touch? Ethics is there to get the tech in, but if the tech is out…it will NEVER get it. Thus you have the continuous ethics cycle.

    In this type of environment, life can be quite brutal and enturbulating. As one gets caught up in this viscious cycle one discovers themselves sliding farther and farther down the tone scale until death itself seems more and more real. Imagine trying to use the lines you were taught to handle things on but the tech/ethics scene is so bad that it really doesnt matter.

    It is at that point that one looks at the insanity of their life and decides to take that final leap of survive or succumb. Some have succumbed to it all and are now dead. Some chose to walk away from it all quietly and completely disconnect. Some chose to walk away but pretend to be connected. If you are on staff and you walk away, the church forces a disconnect and in some cases like my own, declares you which not only disconnects you from org terminals but all Scientologist, everywhere. Sometimes you have to choose life over Scientology.

    When that happens, you get space and destimulate a bit. The mechanical things like getting a job, etc. are simple because most long term Scientologists are extremely able. Doing this without being able to use your Scientology experiences as references, more challenging but doable. The longest part is the mental healing, no matter where you are on the bridge an ARC break of magnitude has occured. Connecting up to the truth and other Scientologists is key to mental recovery.

    There is no need for anyone to be trapped. I spent over three years trying to work it out from inside. I went from newly attested clear to totally inverted dynamics. The thing I loved the most was now my biggest source of pain, at least that’s what I thought at the time, before I’d realized the difference between the church and Scientology.

    Once I stepped away, it only took a few months to handle the life and livingness stuff. I put the mental stuff on hold for several years as I wasn’t ready to handle it yet. I was directed to the Times articles and within three months I was back on track again. And, the best part of this was that it didn’t cost me a cent. 🙂

    What people still in don’t realize is that one doesn’t have to give up all their Scientology comm lines any more. You won’t rot in hell and life is not over. Outside there is love, granting of beingness, appreciation and acknowledgement from both Scientologists and non-Scientologists alike. My value as a being was immediately recognized and acknowledged. Inside the church I was degraded and invalidated by others and eventally myself. What an awful thing to do to people who, more than anything, want to help mankind.

    I was not aware of any other alternative than complete disconnection of all Scientologists. If the outside had been as established then as it is today, the transition would have been much simpler. Communicating truth and personal experiences gives others more alternatives to handling the scene they are currently facing. It is all about personal integrity.

    As far as your upset about the prostitutes, don’t take it so personally. It is just an example of how an unaware person reacts to a forceful one…aberrated.

  194. Ne Obliviscaris

    Excellent post and cram, Karen.

    Jim Logan is also an excellent resource for cramming. He is a virtual encyclopedia of LRH data. He knows how to apply it and the appropriate references to give someone no matter what the situation.

    Perhaps a bit presumptuous of me, but may I suggest that if anyone who has been “Sent to cramming” needs help, that they contact Jim.

    He’ll set ’em straight, post haste!


  195. Since actual LRH works are rarely available on paper (and the remaining copies are ordered by DM to be pulped), the only current way to preserve LRH writing is electronically. I would love it if Bridge Pubs and New Era reprinted the old editions. Certainly it could happen if the suppression were removed.

  196. Ne Obliviscaris

    Thanks Dylan!

    You’re coming out helps all of us who are still struggling in obscurity for the nonce.

    It is an act of bravery and defiance that is to be commended.

    Therefore, you are hereby HIGHLY COMMENDED for Publicly Declaring which side you are on.

    By this action, you are supporting freedom for all.

    Very well done!


  197. Marty this is a PERFECT analogy! It makes perfect sense. It takes some a little longer to come to the conclusion it is a NO win situation and others that think it is survival to continue to be abused, belittled, beaten and squashed thinking that they are protecting the “protector”. DM is a master of camoflage and deceit by using others to do his dirty work! When you are in the middle of it; it is very difficult to see the real TRUTH. Thank you for raising the awareness!

  198. Try this test: google your own name and see if you have to type your whole name before it gives you a link to click. Mine does for example.

    (as a comparison try typing in Bill Cli — and you’ll get 11 suggestions for various Bill Clinton areas – like Bill Clinton Foundation etc)

    Now try typing in – in the google search window (to the right of the url window on my mac for example — don’t know about PCs)

    Marty Rathbun. You type in Marty Rath — and bam – you get TEN possibilities – like Marty Rathbun interview.

    This is HUGE. Means so many people are googling Marty Rathbun that google PROVIDES the possible links. OK — so a couple are ANTI-Marty sites — big deal.

    Means the attempts by OSA and those PIs creating anti-Marty websites are only PROVIDING more hits and links to Marty’s site (which provides links to Steve’s blog, Jeff’s blog, and others)

    The more traffic website gets or other websites with that name get– the more googles recognizes the name.

    It’s great when the enemy actually helps the cause – not because they WANT to but because in doing anything against Marty – it only furthers Marty’s cause. Which is:

    To expose dm and his ilk.

    To be a place for Marty’s own “Truth and Reconciliation” (IMHO one of the great things about Marty’s blog — his willingness to be truthful about his own transgressions, and his obvious reconciliation with those he might have
    been upsetting to in the past (J. Logan, J. Prince are two I can think of)

    To bring LRH’s legacy back.

    To provide a safe place for those who have left OR are considering leaving to come and even lurk for awhile.

    (the above “reasons” for Marty’s website are purely what I perceive to be Marty’s reasons for creating this blog — there are probably others. But it’s a blessing to those of us who visit often)


  199. Maria ~

    //The unfortunate thing here is that some of the acts that are being whistle blowed on were allowed to go on for so long.//

    Your comment above pretty much sums it up. I’m not surprised there are now pro-Marty and anti-Marty factions on the internet because the blame-shame-regret game has been alive out here since the first post on alt.religion.scientology

    Overall I think your post is the best so far in response to the whole prostitute/pimp analogy. The bottom line though (in my view) is that raising a hue & cry on the internet, Youtube and whatever cable channel thinks the story is hot won’t, in the long run, “stop” anything. I think the best way to rescue anyone from something like Scientology is to get them to understand why you left. You know…. ARC.

    Pointing fingers has it’s appeal… but it has it’s limits and often the attention it attracts gets closely focused on the finger-pointer and distracts from the larger purpose.

    Just my two cents.

  200. Although I haven’t confirmed this personally, I’ve heard that the latest editions of some books had the phrase “by L. Ron Hubbard” added to the title. That way the books can be altered enough to get a new copyright, but still make people think they are getting an LRH-authored work because it says “by L. Ron Hubbard” on the cover. In the Library of Congress registration, the authorship is actually attributed to a compilations committee. Pretty devious,eh?

  201. This guy Dylan…

    He has a great blog. Very honest, very unassuming and a writing style that is raw and appealing in it’s directness. Thanks Dylan – write more!


  202. thank you one and all for the warm welcome out of the shadows. I guess teh main reason that I stayed hidden was that I thought that if I did I might be able to reconnect with my family still in. It was out of respect for one to practice their religion and I felt if I made to many waves then they would be outed. I’m over all that now. I still believe that anyone should be able to practice and/or believe whatever they want I have just realised that it also applies to me. I still have a few things to deal with but hiding is not one of them. Thanks again Everyone.
    @ TOM I do not know you but I am guessing that you know me 🙂

  203. For anyone who hasn’t got the 2007 version of NSOL (or hasn’t unpacked it), you can see the chapter listings at http://bit.ly/9rzrAx (Google Books)

  204. It's me again


    Thank you for that data. I have copies of the 1979 books that are green, but no copies of what you have.

    And by the way, what the hell happened to all the other LRH books that use to be in print that did not come out with the Basics? Are they even available anymore?

  205. Mike,

    “Why are you making this pretense of a special briefing ?”

    I never said the words “special briefing”. So how could I be making a pretense of a “special briefing”?

    1. You have alter ised what I said already.

    2. Definition of briefing:
    Main Entry: brief·ing
    Pronunciation: \ˈbrē-fiŋ\
    Function: noun
    Date: 1910
    : an act or instance of giving precise instructions or essential information

    1. Where I get my essential information from is another matter.

    2. I did not check with my source to find out if he wanted his name used. So I did not use it without his permission.

    Is there anything else I did that alarmed you?

  206. Thanks for all this information Wayne.

  207. Virgil Samms

    Karen, he needs to report to cramming for whatyou cite but for also being such a lousey OSA Bot. He really showed his had way, way too soon.

    Veritas if 8008 were a real Scientologist he/she would tell us his/her identity and who his/her handler is in OSA Int. But all we’re going to see is more fabrication, alter-is. lies, false directors and other non-Scientology, “fair game” BS.

    ML Tom

  208. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Holy Shit! I just looked at New Slant on Life and you are right – tons of chapters. I used to never get it when people told me they loved that book. I would think to myself, yeah it’s pretty good, but it has so little in it. I never had the old green version until recently when I got interested in what the “old” stuff looked like and started buying it.

    What a wonderful little microcosm of Scn as a whole. DM New Slant – yawn; LRH New Slant – Wow! DM “Ideal” Org – nearly empty but a few butts in seats if you can lean on them enough to keep them there (or bring them in from all over for a photo op); LRH “pre-Ideal” Org – butts in seats not on off policy training, but training to audit and co-audit, bringing friends in just because they are winning.

    Of course, LRH Orgs could have problems, but it was noticable by the academy emptying out (the public always lets you know when you suck). And you just correct to get people winning again and they come back in. Now the obvious world wide indicator of out tech (academies empty of actual auditor trainees with on policy short runways) is simply ignored and we press on with unusual solutions like making them study basics or something instead of debugging why almost no one (except under orders) will do auditor training.

  209. As a wog, I have to disagree. People in the wog world are entitled to disagree with varying points of view. Just because people don’t agree, doesn’t invalidate them as a person or invalidate their points. I’m a Christian with a lot of Atheist friends. If what you said were true, I would have told a lot of people to GTFO a long time ago.

  210. “It only becomes obvious when DM does something like order all of the orginal books by LRH to be destroyed or declares them old, or we don’t use that any more. That is a technical degrade. It is a high crime. No excuses for that. Did DM order those books to be destroyed? Did he state that they are no longer in use? Did he make degrading statements about them?”


  211. There are too many people talking past each other and not to each other. Following the insane Judge Fischer ruling, there needs to be an alignment on a common purpose of exposing and stopping the Cult’s pattern of abusing the legal system to further its fascist agenda.

    The Cult of Scientology has now shockingly succeeded in legalizing its internal human rights abuses with the Fischer ruling. The next legal goal of the Cult will be to criminalize any Free Speech directed against it. Former Sea Org member Gerry Armstrong warned about this:

    “Judicially prohibiting people from responding to Scientology’s attacks, and punishing them with imprisonment and fines if they do respond, creates a new type of slavery, which Scientology, with U.S. Government support, is attempting to export around the world. Since the U.S. Government considers the organization a religion, and confers upon it all the privileges and benefits conferred on traditional religions, including tax exemption, Scientology’s attacks on critics and its extreme measures to silence them amount to a new form of State-sanctioned religious persecution…”
    ref: http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/introduction.html
    The Cult of Scientology really does not care about the villian of OT III; he can be seen as a red herring designed to distract while the Cult does its most deadly work in the courts. Does anyone really want a world in which the following is true:

    “Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal.’ By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not.”
    – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, “LRH Relationship to Orgs”

    IMO, the work must shift away from merely, or only, exposing DM and towards exposing the legal strategy of CoS to misuse the courts to enforce its fascist agenda upon Western Culture.


  212. “theoracle”:

    I now have access to Pierre Ethier’s Facebook pages and I have positively confirmed those *all* those paragraphs you posted are nothing more than copy-paste from his Facebook Wall.

    So, I ask you again: Why the pretense of a special briefing and why did you attempt to hide the source of this information?

    Michael A. Hobson

  213. Ne Obliviscaris

    Hi Eileen,

    I don’t like using email addresses that gather data like AOL.

    How about you email me at neobliviscaris@hushmail.com and we can arrange a phone call.


  214. Hello Mr. Fromke. As a wog, I found what Miscavige was doing was very strange. How do you alter reading material after someone’s death and have the audacity to say it’s the same thing? After the Bible was cannonized, a few different versions came out. As an example, in some versions the commandment “Thou shall not kill” was also written as “Thou shall not murder”, with the latter being the generally accepted version. So, when I watched Aida Thomas explain on youtube on how Miscavige was taking out entire books, entire paragraphs, and found out the 2nd dynamic changed I thought an elder (old timer, wisened one, you get the picture) would be miffed about the vast differences. I also noted how he touts himself as the ultimate leader. And inregards to the size of todays books, I saw it as a cry for attention. “Look how big, glossy, and pretty I am! Don’t you wanna pay an arm and a leg for me? It’s not about substance dahling, it’s about style!”. The large, glossy books can be seen on youtube and on their websites.

  215. Mike Hobson,
    In old baseball terms; ‘good eye’.

    I think the ‘oracle’ is exactly that: a mouthpiece. Just my opinion.

  216. Maria,

    Words of extreme wisdom!

    While we all share the common denominator of the church, we all wear very different shoes in our personal lives/situations.

    We all have our individual responsibilities. Our own vision of what should happen to DM and the church. Our own need to perhaps clean-up unhandled things from our past regarding the church.

    That said, I believe Marty’s words above are apropos if you don’t internalize them as a personal invalidation.

    Due to the very nature of how PR functions to keep people interested in and continually returning to a subject, not to mention supporting it, one sometimes needs to push the appropriate buttons. And I do believe the button-pushing is being directed at the “whores” in OSA, who are directly attacking Marty.

    With these words, “I am against “forced” or “ordered” or “coerced” disconnection. I don’t think it has any place in a civilized society.”, I believe Marty is clearly establishing a healthy dose of sanity and is indeed clarifying who the real recipients of this comm are.

    With respect,

  217. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    I’ve been having the same problem today/last night on posting youtube videos. I think I found the outness. The “embed” code from YouTube is correct but if you paste it into a reply box and then post it Word Press seems to be deleting the “?” character from the end of the videos http address: example excerpt – (…value=”http://www.youtube.com/v/_5VRhmgUNtM?fs=1) (note the “?” after the “M” and before the “fs”). What appears in the posted reply is a big blank space (as least in my replies) because the actual filename for the video now contains an “fs”. It’s the one thing that seems to be tripping up the vid postings.

    Marty, Does that seem correct? When I posted the videos the code looks accurate when pasting into the reply box but after the posting if you select/highlight the section of your posting and then right mouse click on it and select “view selected source” (I’m using Firefox), the corresponding code displays with what I wrote in my previous paragraph. Wrong filename – No video!

    Gary (sorry for the repeated attempts to post the video – I’m wearing my debug programmer’s/qual hat 🙂 )

  218. Long away and far away …

    I was a happy-blissful-drugged-out hippie. Convinced everyone else was too. One day at the student union – a favorite hangout – I proudly announced that I was totally stoned WITHOUT having taking anything.

    The person I bragged this to, an acquaintance, said — wow … that’s too bad.

    That didn’t make me stop doing drugs RIGHT THEN … ie disconnect from what was suppressive to me … but it stayed IN MY MIND.

    And not long afterwards … I did quit drugs AND found Scientology.

    There is NO telling IF that prostitute might not, someday, leave her pimp because someone cared enough to stop and offer help.

    There is no way to know, how many of those who lurk – will leave or when.
    How many of those who “work” for OSA, will leave or when. How many who are FB friends and see various posts, will leave or when. Etc. Etc.

    We can only plant seeds. If we attempt to GROW those seeds as well — then, I’d say we’ve taken on the role of the sun or god, if you will.

    1) Plant seeds. 2) Often. 3)Nurture them as you can.

    Repeat 1-3 for the rest of your life. (not just regarding dm but concerning other sources of suppression and pointing towards another way)


  219. I want to speak up for people lurking and staying on the fence. It’s still dangerous and maybe more so for people to speak up. It depends on the persons situation and abilty to handle the shitload of harrashment the CO$ is still able to dump on them.

  220. martyrathbun09

    slightly edited out of respect for others.

  221. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    I can see you as an auditor with your pc in session… “The pc itsa’s his overts and other problems bothering him. You ack him and tell him his needle is floating. You end session. After leaving the auditing room you escort your pc to the examiner and tell your pc what a fucking idiot he is for doing those things that he confessed to you and then you slap him also.”

    Gee… I wonder where your tone is? It sure isn’t at a point where it would be a help to anyone! I think you think like DM! Every which way but SANE!

    Shoves and Pisses,

    Gary (a villager who doesn’t like his friends undeservedly maligned)

    P.S. Remember Allen, Sam’s got a ball bat and singing a tune – “someone’s gonna get it…” (the rest of us are waiting our turn at bat!)

  222. martyrathbun09

    8008. First, that is not an on Source use of funds in the slightest. LRH never ran or advised campaigns like that. In fact, he state in policy (I believe it was Quality Counts) that he was sickened to hear of an org using money to handle its PR rather than delivering. DM’s hole ain’t delivering. It is all PR. He spends tens of millions on it. You like that; then keep contributing. But, I won’t have you use this forum as a further outlet for DM’s off policy PR – which is in the main, bought. Adios Muchacho

  223. one of those who see

    Hi Allen,
    From 1950 forward, special people rose up and took the time and the effort to find out about Dianetics and then Scientology. We were/are the ones who could see. I see us ALL as a 3rd dynamic. I don’t know about you, but to this day I am the only one in my family that is a Scientologist. Then the church went off the rails and the way I see it, we are all responsible. The other day I went to a location where a Mission used to be. That Mission HOlder got declared and the mission closed many years ago now. I was public and staff there. Standing at that old location, I realized that when the Mission Holder was declared, I just abandoned him. I didn’t even investigate the declare for myself. Major case gain when I spotted this overt from my 1st year in Scientology.
    We are growing up as a group and there are growing pains. Marty was willing take on huge responsibility for Scientology. More than most of us. And he is still doing it! I understand that some, maybe lots of people have ARCx s with him from his SO days. The answer would be for those Individuals to get in comm with him. And also to please LOOK at what he is saying & doing in PT. He has put himself in harm’s way to fix things.

  224. I think alot of people should meet eachoter and talk. See it as some kind of Reünion rundown. Allen why dont you mail Marty for a visit at the shack. I am sure he makes yoiu a cup of coffee at least.

  225. I love it ! Good Job Dylan!!
    you are valuable and special and another strong and true friend of LRH out to really help others….
    Would love to be in comm with you!
    and if you need anything I’m here… 😀

  226. thankx
    you for the data. good job!


  227. Marty this is a very good post!! few people contacted me here in Italy…

    The truth is spreading out… more and more are ready to do the jump!

  228. Ne Obliviscaris

    In looking over the laundry list of wrongs that have been perpetrated on current and former members of the Church of Scientology, a thought occurred to me.

    If Black Dianetics or Reverse Scientology been run on you in the past, it is not Scientology.

    I think that many in the church have not differentiated the fact that just because LRH wrote up the entirety of the subject (Good and Bad) of Thetan, Mind and Body – that it was NOT OK to use the entirety of the subject to control bodies.

    Needless to say, this is a crashing MU.

    I believe that (seeing no alternative) he wrote up the entire subject as well as he could. LRH took a great leap of faith in doing this. He trusted that the basic goodness of man would win out in the end.

    As Many of you well know. A true crashing MU can continue to affect a being lifetime to lifetime.

    So, that being said, don’t be afraid to continue to avail yourself of the Tech. Just make sure to clear up any MU’s as you go. The more you do that the more “You” you will become and the more Pan-Determined you will become.


  229. Read it again I am totally againts this and as to playing the victim. Having abortions forced on you will scar you and no it does not “go away” with more ausditing. It is a pain of the soul. nothing to do with the reactive mind. It is a very consious felt deepseated pain.

  230. Brad H,
    That was an incredible, inspiring post/response.

  231. Woman can take more indeed. mostley shit of men.

  232. flytrike,
    Welcome to the blog and the activity of posting. Great first step. I love that PDC lecture, that quote, that whole idea LRH gets across as clean as a wolf’s tooth.

  233. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    You mean David Miscavage is pulping the evidence?

    Clearly, no religious writings should be copyrighted. Imagine the Bible scriptures being copyrighted. That thought is equally absurd as copyrighting LRH’s scriptures.

    I like this LRH quote …

    “I will not always be here on guard.
    The stars twinkle in the Milky Way
    And the wind sighs for songs
    Across the empty fields of a planet
    A Galaxy away.
    You won’t always be here.
    But before you go,
    Whisper this to your sons
    And their sons —
    “The work was free.
    Keep it so. ”


    The more scientologists De-PTS, obviously, the more aware and vigilent they’ll be, and we’ll have enough good people to get tech suppression off scientology. I dream of the day when real, unsquirrelled LRH’s original work is free, and can be disseminated without fear of retribution. (Sounds ridiculous coming from a “church”, huh. What other church does this?)

    I’m likely not the only one who has had a lot of charge on this matter.

  234. I know, first hand, members of the C of M that are quite aware of the very real damage Miscavige has done and continues to do. They are in no doubt, they know. But they would rather shun their daughters, friends and loved ones (people very close to me) than do anything about Miscavige because that would mean having to take responsibility for Scientology and actually make decisions regarding it.

    The common denominator is that as long as Miscavige continues to make the right noises they are not going to move out of their “comfort zone”.

    We could talk about losing employment, we could say it was because of this and that, but all that is simply “mere explanation” per LRH’s Data Series because it opens no door to any handling. It just kind of explains it all away.

    The difference between those willing to actually do something and those not is in the area of responsibility. This is an important point, because if we don’t take responsibility for Scientology this mess will never end even when Miscavige is long gone and even if the structure has been changed and everything smoothed out because we’ll then be happy to have some other idiot screw it all up – just so long as we don’t have to actually take responsibility.



    I think it’s the big lesson we’re all supposed to be learning.

  235. The “shitload of harassment” is really the point here. We need a bigger army. People like you can sit in the bleachers and cheer, but some others may just need some encouragement to man a post. Let’s go.

    Courage is reckoned the greatest of all virtues; because, unless a man has that virtue, he has no security for preserving any other. ~Samuel Johnson
    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear. ~Ambrose Redmoon

    Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. ~Winston Churchill

    It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare. ~Mark Twain

    Courage is being afraid but going on anyhow. ~Dan Rather

    Courage is doing what you’re afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you’re scared. ~Edward Vernon Rickenbacker

    Courage can’t see around corners, but goes around them anyway. ~Mignon McLaughlin, The Neurotic’s Notebook, 1960

    Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. ~C.S. Lewis

    One man with courage makes a majority. ~Andrew Jackson

    Courage is the power to let go of the familiar. ~Raymond Lindquist

    Valor is stability, not of legs and arms, but of courage and the soul. ~Michel de Montaigne

    When we are afraid we ought not to occupy ourselves with endeavoring to prove that there is no danger, but in strengthening ourselves to go on in spite of the danger. ~Mark Rutherford

    True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but the firm resolve of virtue and reason. ~Alfred North Whitehead

    Courage, in the final analysis, is nothing but an affirmative answer to the shocks of existence. ~Kurt Goldstein

    To live with fear and not be afraid is the final test of maturity. ~Edward Weeks

    A man of courage never wants weapons. ~Author Unknown

    It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. ~Aesop

    Courage is being scared to death… and saddling up anyway. ~John Wayne

    Courage is never to let your actions be influenced by your fears. ~Arthur Koestler

    Courage is a kind of salvation. ~Plato

    Courage could be summed up in
    1) being willing to cause something,
    2) going ahead to achieve the effect one has postulated against any and all odds. ~L. Ron Hubbard

  236. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    You’re very welcome.

    Your green version should be just identical to my 1975 reprint. Look for Copyright 1968, and 1973, and it should say it’s a reprint … REPRINTED (MONTH) 1979.

    If so, you very well likely have an UNsquirreled version. What I’ve found, as a general rule, is if Ron was still active on CoS lines when one of his books came out, the books’ text is unlikely to have been altered or deleted. (Who would dare do this when he was alive and him not finding out?)

    Another general rule of thumb is if the book is titled with “By L. Ron Hubbard” you can feel fairly safe it’s authentic LRH works.

  237. Virgil Samms

    Gotta love the Karen. Gotta.

    ML Tom

  238. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    You’re very welcome 8008.

    I hope you let those you know about this “hidden” squirrelling within the top management of CoS. This is just the more blantant squirrelling I posted about. I’m afraid internal org knowledge reports won’t work and will only land you in ethics. Many others have tried this route (including me), without any correction resulting. There is way too much suppression on the lines right now.

    I urge you to find the SP. That alone will give you amazing case gain.

  239. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    LRH was WELL AWARE of any changes made to New Slant On Life. In fact, he clearly directed staff to make some refined changes to it. He knew the way he had it NSOL lined up was a perfect entrance point for new scientologists.

    On the title page of the 1972 edition, it says …

    “This edition contains several corrections, made under the direction of author to the earlier version; it also adds ‘Myths of the Mind’, replacing an extract from Science of Survival.”

    Back then, the honest church staff DOCUMENTED any changes. Now certain upper church management just make changes to LRH works behind your back. By them doing this, how can they possibly be blindly trusted?

  240. DM
    Short Guy

  241. Virgil Samms

    8008 – And don’t forget, muchacho, it is alright for Marty to communicate whatever he wants to and for anyone else to communicate. First Amerndment.

    It is not okay to try to hijack the blog for forwarding DMs PR.

    ML Tom

  242. Virgil Samms

    Wow Marty. This is the most TA I have ever seen in a 24 hour period. Good job. Good TA. Good gains.

    ML Tom

  243. one of those who see

    Yes!! Love this. Keyed me out!
    Said lovingly from another trouble maker who was not well tolerated by the Church.

  244. Marty,

    Would you categorise Allen Stanfield as a troublemaker?

    While I might not agree with the way he communicates things, I believe that Allen is sincere in his views. In fact, Allen (AKA Alanzo) has been an outspoken critic of the CoS for several years and was one of the writers who got me to look critically at what was going on in my ‘church’.

    Sometimes we need someone to ask uncomfortable questions to challenge us. If everyone agreed with everything we said, how would we grow and learn?

    PS I consider myself to be a troublemaker, albeit a diplomatic one. 😉


  245. martyrathbun09

    I think Allen thinks way too highly of himself. He keeps accusing me of not disclosing ops on him. Never even heard of the guy. You gotta be one hell of a lot more effective to be an ops target. He just is far too ineffective with his victimhood. He needs to come up the tone scale.

  246. martyrathbun09

    Edited the P word in the third sentence.

  247. dfb99
    I’m kind of with Jessica on this one.
    I think the point is to just take disconnection on a personal one to one basis rather than getting into group identities. I have a few ‘anons’ as friends and a few ‘Indies’ I’ve disconnected from in the last few weeks. I also have friends that are avid and vocal non-Scientologists and I don’t feel that’s a reason to disconnect either. I even have one or two C of M bot bots as friends albeit quite a strained relationship at times 🙂
    Point is whether an individual is creating un-necessary conflict and upset or is happy to respect my beliefs and friendships. If someone is going to shove their opinions down my throat or attack me or my friends they’re gone regardless of their group affiliations. Simple.

  248. martyrathbun09

    I agree

  249. That’s a great site, thanks!

  250. LOL. I thank you for wanting to recruite me into your Indy army. I will happily stand with anyone out in the open don’t you worry about that. If Marty wants to visit the Netherlands I happily put him up and 5 others.

    Expect me

  251. A friend of mine recently said – when I told him about “Murder Out” – that Miscavige has done more harm and more to destroy scientology that ALL the prior SPs put together from the past. And that includes government raids.

    We determined that what appears to be the lesson is — in our opinion — that the EP of scientology is to LEAVE scientology.

    Go it alone to find your inner self — USING all the tools you have to hand. THEN come back in whatever fashion and rebuild your friendships, life etc.,
    spiritual path.

    Perhaps THIS is what LRH meant when he once said — “someday the Hosannas will be for you”

  252. Gary, that’s the ticket. TY

  253. Drat — I should have followed Tom Gallagher’s embed video hatting —

    BTW — dont’ remember where LRH mentioned that someday the Hosanna’s will be for you but I vaguely remember it was THE BIRTHDAY GAME!!! 0h yes — the old forgotten birthday game.

  254. It was all about communication was it not ? That is a far cry from Disconnection.

  255. This victimhood thing is some kind of new SP branding ?

  256. JUST in case — someone misunderstands or hasn’t been keeping up with this blog and my various comments — when I say – the ep of scientology is to LEAVE scientology —

    I mean to LEAVE the current structure. (and even the past structure)( the FORM)

    But to embrace the essence of LRH’s tech and use it either fully or in part in your life and your path.

    I do not mean to abandon LRH’s technology.

    Geesch — sorry about the wordy explanations but am attempting to eliminate dm-bot comments.


  257. A source of suppression will always self destruct. At a certain point it becomes a matter of pure physics. The identification with the mechanics of the physical universe will overwhelm.

  258. Wow Mike,
    This is a powerful protest read over my forwarding of that information.
    That’s what I am noticing.
    And that is not about me.
    It’s about you.

  259. Well, I can’t believe how many rabid bites you got out of that simple comment Allen.
    Explains why I don’t find as much time for this blog anymore.

    Allen your communication did not enturbulate me. I mean really Marty? Are you talking about this comment Allen made?

    All of you? You’re kidding right?

    Yep, scientologists can really be a special brand of assholes.

  260. “I think the ‘oracle’ is exactly that: a mouthpiece. Just my opinion.”

    Jim Logan,
    Have I done you some disservice?

  261. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Here are specific examples of ALTERED and DELETED text in just the first 3 pages of “Is it possible to be happy” in 2007 Squirrelled version of New Slant On Life.

    Isn’t it UNTOLERABLE and UNACCEPTABLE for any editorial changes whatsoever to be done to any “By L. Ron Hubbard” writings, especially now that he’s gone? He can no longer oversee any edits.

    NOT EVEN A COMMA should be changed. Only REPRINTS should be done. This is not what’s happening though.

    Perhaps one may mistakenly believe I’m being too pedantic here. However, accepting anything less than straight reprints from “By L. Ron Hubbard” books is being reasonable with KSW.

    OK. Here you go …

    (Note: Words in brackets [ ] are the words and punctuation that has changed. )

    Original NSOL: A great many people wonder whether half of us even EXIST in this modern, rushing world.

    Squirrel 2007: A great many people wonder whether [or not happiness] even [exists] in this modern, rushing world.

    Original NSOL: We take the case of somebody who has worked all his life; he has worked hard and he has raised a big family.

    Squirrel 2007: We take the case of somebody who has worked all his life. (note incomplete sentence) [He’s] worked hard. [He’s] raised a big family.

    Note: [He’s] replaced “he has” in more occasions not posted here.

    Original NSOL: Our main problem in life is happiness, but I’ll tell you more in a moment.

    Squirrel 2007: Our main problem in life is happiness. (missing comma and deleted rest of the sentence.)

    Original NSOL: The world may or may not be designed to be a happy one.

    Squirrel 2007: The world [today] may or may not be designed to be a happy [world].

    Original NSOL: It may not be possible for you to be happy in this world, and yet nearly all of us have a goal to be happy and cheerful about existence.

    Squirrel 2007: It may [or may not] be possible for you to be happy in this world. And yet nearly all of us have a goal to be happy and cheerful about existence.

    Original NSOL: You know, very often we look at the world around us and say that nobody could be happy in this place.

    Squirrel 2007: [And then], very often[,] we look [around] at the world around us and say[, “Well,] nobody could be happy in this place.[“]

    Original NSOL: and so, how could anyone possibly be happy when actually he can’t have everything he wants.

    Squirrel 2007: and [say], [“Well,] how could [anybody] possibly be happy when[,] actually[,] he can’t have everything he wants[?]

    A bunch more [including for the worse] grammer changes and “cleansing” have been made throughout this chapter.

    Original NSOL: Actually a little child derives all of his “how” of life from the grace he puts upon life.

    Squirrel 2007: Actually[,] a little child derives all of his [pleasure in] life from the grace he puts upon life.

    Original NSOL: He waves a magic hand and brings all manner of interesting things into being out in the society.

    Squirrel 2007: He waves a magin hand and [turns] all manner of interesting things into being out in the society.

    Original NSOL: The squirrel text below is not in the original.

    Squirrel 2007: [Where does he do this? He goes down and he looks at the cop.]

    Original NSOL: You know you don’t have to study a thousand ancient books to discover that fact.

    Squirrel 2007: You know, you don’t have to study a thousand ancient books to discover that fact.

    (Notice how just simply adding a comma changes the tone and meaning of a sentence. This is done all over the place in the Squirrel 2007 edition. In the interest of keeping this brief I’m not listing all occurrances.)

    Original NSOL: everything would be just fine.

    Squirrel 2007: everything would be just [right].

    Original NSOL: Well, there are many, many things we could do,

    Squirrel 2007: Well, there are many, [many,] many things we could do,

    Original NSOL: Text below does not exist in the by L. Ron Hubbard version

    Squirrel 2007: [Well, maybe you’ve just neglected somewhere back in the last few years to wave that magic hand.]

    Original NSOL: Other people seek happiness in various ways. They seek it hectically, as though it’s some sort of mechanism that exists–maybe it’s a little machine, maybe it’s parked in the cupboard, maybe it’s someplace else. They’re looking for something, but the odd part of it is, the only time they ever fixed something is when they put it there first. Now this doesn’t sound very plausible, but it’s quite true.

    Squirrel 2007: Other people seek happiness in various ways. They seek it hectically[.] [It’s] as though [it is] some sort of mechanism that exists[.] [It’s made up.] [M]aybe it’s a little machine, maybe it’s [something that’s] parked in the cupboard [or maybe happiness is down at the next corner.] [M]aybe it’s someplace else. [They are] looking for [something (italics).] [Well,] the odd part of it is, the only time [they’ll] ever [find] something is when they put it there [first – italics]. Now[,] this doesn’t sound very [credible], but it’s quite true.

    This should add even more credence to the point (using specifics) on how the CoS management is squirreling LRH works. But I will post more alterations here if it’s wanted here.

  262. At any rate, “thought provoking” and “Jim Logan”, I am not interested in being in a conflict with you, neither pitted against you either one because Mike Hobson is on some protest read. This is how the third party operates and builds walls between people.

  263. dfb99: “I feel like I’m not sure who you are talking about or what the campaign is.”

    dfb, Marty is simply saying that there is nothing wrong with disconnection, if it is done on a self-determined basis. The “campaign” and “who” that he is talking about are those that think that ANY disconnection is wrong, self-determined or otherwise.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, Marty.

  264. martyrathbun09

    Victoria, I am talking about a ten month history of this guy making baseless charges about me. I am simply honestly answering a question posed to me by someone who has been straight with me and contributed greatly to this blog.

  265. martyrathbun09

    Exactamo Margaret, thanks. (oh, yeah – it is a fb campaign and the “who” is ultimately OSA)

  266. So this is KSW

    “ΘTater/GaryLerner | August 15, 2010 at 8:16 pm |

    I can see you as an auditor with your pc in session… “The pc itsa’s his overts and other problems bothering him. You ack him and tell him his needle is floating. You end session. After leaving the auditing room you escort your pc to the examiner and tell your pc what a fucking idiot he is for doing those things that he confessed to you and then you slap him also.”

    Gee… I wonder where your tone is? It sure isn’t at a point where it would be a help to anyone! I think you think like DM! Every which way but SANE!

    Shoves and Pisses,

    Gary (a villager who doesn’t like his friends undeservedly maligned)

    P.S. Remember Allen, Sam’s got a ball bat and singing a tune – “someone’s gonna get it…” (the rest of us are waiting our turn at bat!)”


  267. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Thank you. And you’re most welcome!

  268. Axiom,
    Allen is a Sophist. It’s a wonderful school. Geniuses. It’s still Sophistry.

  269. Hayzues (Jesus) Alou, J. Swift, that’s a mightly wound up li’l posting. Rewax dude, the ‘fascist’ takeover is loudly decried, but is NOT the aim of de exercise. Truth be told, it’s to rule over vegetable gardens, WORLDWIDE.

    Good lord.

  270. Cat,
    In the Welcome to the SO tapes there’s a remark, paraphrased: ‘I’ve been in nothing but trouble for the last four quadrillion years’ so how come you’re so worried about it.

    Man, or ‘mouse’ (masquwading as Cat).

  271. And again Haydn shoots through and hits the clean center.

  272. Personally, I think Jim Logan’s write-up here is the most thorough and accurate:


    (No offense to WiseOldGoat.)

  273. OTATER SAID: P.S. Remember Allen, Sam’s got a ball bat and singing a tune – “someone’s gonna get it…” (the rest of us are waiting our turn at bat!)

    It sounds like you are advocating violence? I sure hope that is not how you meant it?? I for one do not think because someone has a different opinion that they should be threatend with a beating? this is exactly why most of us left the COS.

    THis is NOT OKAY IMO. In this world that we live in people have the right to express their opinion good or bad . I sure hope that I am reading this wrong? I’m not saying I agree or disagreee with Alan But I sure as hell think he has the right to express his view point with out violence.

  274. This is so true. In 1979 LRH sent me a telex in which he stated he wished he had never taken the earlier advice to become a church. “We should have just made the money and paid the taxes” is a paraphrasing of one of these quotes, and during that time, I obviously was not the only one he discussed these matters to as these thoughts of LRH were also repeated in the Forbes 1982 article regarding Scientology.

    When I first joined in the early 70’s I definitely did not want to join a Church, I was all about Thereau and Walden Pond and the Transcendentalists. I was shown policies by Hubbard where in he said that the shift to “Church” was for the Accountants and Lawyers only and would not affect our day to day operations. Scientology was not a “real” church, it was an Applied Religious Philosophy.

    In all my years in Scientology, I NEVER heard things like “Scriptures” or Parishioners or even Churches — it was the Boston Org, the Miami Org, the LA Org (all short for organization.)

    When I was working with Hubbard setting up WISE, I asked him if we should go profit or non profit – his final reply was non-profit, because it went along better with the “church mock-up”.

    When I left, I did leave with some of the most incredible experience of running an international multi million dollar company. This was valuable and useful in the real world. What I learned about God/Infinity/ Universal Mind or whatever people want to call it, was about as miniscule as could be.

    There will be a point down the road where the decision will have to be made. — It”s either a Church, or it’s a self help business – but it can not be both.

    This is in my book, but bears repeating. I was public and had two young sons and realized the first had grown up with no basic understanding of the religions, any religion, I was not going to do the same with my younger so we did a tour of “Churches” of Scientology across the Los Angeles area, the closest we got was at ASHO, During the Lunch Break, While the students were eating, they had a weekly speaker or tape play.

    When I first lived out in the “real world” I would find that churches were a true community. If a mom was sick, other mom’s would make casseroles and come help wtih the laundry. They showed care and compassion for eachother as common group members. I have only heard Scientologists express pubicly the question “I wonder what he did to pull in that cancer..”

    A Church is a placce of safety, friendship and compassion. A place when you hit a rough spot other members of your group step up to the plate to help you out. I am sorry to say that I have never seen that within the world of Scientology.

    Which actually was fine with me, because when I first joined if they had told me it was a “real” church, I would not have joined….
    nancy many

    PS but at this point, so many years have passed that a decision truly does have to be made.

  275. martyrathbun09

    Lay off Sam – you are being a sanctimonious hypocrite at best by piling on to redfine a humerous methaphorical comment.

  276. Mike,
    “So, I ask you again: Why the pretense of a special briefing..”
    And I will say it again Mike, “special briefing” is something you invented.
    It is not something I ever said or implied and my words are right here for anyone to see for themselves.
    You have alter ised my comm, probably because you have an MU on the word brief.
    And you are stuck like a fly on syrup to your own alter is.
    It’s not my problem.

  277. thanks Ensifer and Silvia you guys are about as cool as they come. I look forward to meeting all of you one day soon!

  278. Good moral. Direct, sudden-like. Have fun fishin’ and listen to some Creed….down on the bayou. C.

  279. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    Believe it or not women are not any more victims as you’ve stated, then men.

    The thing you have to understand is that WE are not meat bodies as such but rather spiritual beings. The gender of a human body is just that. Men and women do act differently because of some physical and familial conditions. BUT we all are just results of our own postulates, intentions, concepts, integrity and honor. This is what sums us up. Being a “victim” is enforced initially and then agreed to because of a lack of knowledge as to what the enforcement consists of and who is the source of it.

    Rantings by people that have no concept of what and who they are gives them convoluted truths as they see them. The effects of not knowing what is really a truth gets you beings that cause failure in others as a form of survival. Cause and Effect. If you promote postulates that create ill effects in the name of truth, then you are being suppressive.

    Making victims is an agreed upon effect. By both beings. Male or Female has NOTHING to do with it. It’s an observation that a “guy” or a “girl” are being a victim because that’s what you are LOOKING at. If you see and confront the actual Thetan there then you will see what the truth is in fact.

    Knowing the difference between what constitutes Survival and Failure is what give us civility. Without it we get “pimps” and “prostitutes”! An insane person such as the DMasterPimper has an awareness of others around him BUT does NOT know the difference between the type of effects he considers survival and failure. His products are from his “blindness” to the “truths” around him. Beatings, deprivations, wrong targets, wrong whys, and WRONG TECH are what he produces.

    So, when the person barks to make a noise about something (that he truly knows little about, if anything) and does not help others to survive and better themselves then he helps to create victims.


  280. DFB, I don’t think they’re posted on the internet because then the sheeple could stay home and watch and C of M couldn’t reg them or recruit them immediately after the implant. No control over particle (which is all they think of their parishioners.

  281. Alanzo-

    You come to this blog with innuendo and veiled accusations and then rush to ESMB and bawww about being threatened with violence when a few people respond with joking references…

    If you feel you were threatened with physical harm, did you report is to the police? If not you are just manufacturing drama for your own agenda. And even if you did, my opinion would be the same.

    Grow up.

    And contribute to solutions, rather than throwing peoples past in their face among their friends. (something that in my experience is seldom welcome)

    Alex (PAB 6 virgin)

  282. Nancy, Great data on the original profit:non-profit decision.
    As far as ” I am sorry to say that I have never seen that within the world of Scientology.”
    I am sorry to hear that. Many who were in the CofM, though we were fooled by DM, were there to help. When I was still in I gave one staff member who had gotten cancer daily touch assists as did others. I went to the hospital to help 3 different parishioners, never worrying if they “pulled it in”, but only wanting to help as a friend and auditor, pulling one gal who hadn’t been active for many years out of a coma and helping her recover so she could get back to her family, regardless of whether she wanted to be a scientologist or not, and met many other people from her family and friends (not scientoloists) who also did whatever they could to help. I will continue to use whatever tech I can learn to help others to live happier lives, and don’t need a church or other group to validate me.
    I agree that the church itself rarely takes time to help people in such distress, and even when the ED of the local org was in the hopsital, it fell to his wife to arrange volunteers to help him as the staff were all too busy with their posts; however there have always been auditors and volunteers whose main purpose in being there was to help others.

  283. dfb99, On your own time you can do what you like. In the business world you have a job to do. And if part of your job means handleing someone who is suppressive, you cannot say, “I have to disconnect from this person”. Teachers cannot do it, lawyers cannot do it, lobbyists cannot do it, people in crisis managment, P.R., law enforcment, politics and a host of other occupations cannot do it. So, you learn to handle it. And it can be handled very easily. Scientology is the only arena where you ought taught to run away from it, that I know of.

  284. Well said Karen. Spot on.

  285. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Right on the money, Wayne! If it’s not written it’s not true! If it’s not written by LRH then it’s not LRH. PERIOD.

  286. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Very Well Done, Dylan! (Feels good, doesn’t it?)

    Welcome to Marty’s BBQ! We’re roasting bot nuts tonight. 🙂


  287. 1. It upset Allen 2. This was not Sam’s comment 3. I was not privy to the connection to thewith the West Side Story. 4 as for being a hypocrit I geuss I deserved that. 5. I geuss this is Sparta “(the rest of us are waiting our turn at bat!)”

    Allen IS an Ex Scientologist so he takes it more seriously having been in the rollercoasterride that was the CO$.

  288. I always liked Speedy Gonzalez 😉

  289. Thank you for your replies to my comment and I am glad to see the viewpoints you have expressed. Excellent!

    I was not particularly feeling invalidated by what Marty said, but I did think that there are other viewpoints, mine included!

    I think that you are right about who Marty was referring to, in particular the OSA operatives who are using tactics that are very much a continuation of the reverse use of Scientology to intimidate and harass others.

    But I find it hard to condemn others these days, for I well remember how I was before I had the great auditing that I had. I had no “feeling” or “compassion” for others. None whatsoever. In fact, the very reason I wanted to auditing was because I never felt “love” for anyone – no warmth, no compassion, no real caring. I was very much shut down emotionally and I knew there was something terribly wrong that I could not empathize. Very disconnected. As I did my grade auditing, I blossomed, and at the state of Clear I found myself in a state where I could truly say that I loved others, loved life, and truly truly cared for the first time in so long that I completely forgotten what it was to be fully alive with the whole world a garden in growth. Hard to express.

    I think that many of the staff in the Church are in the state I was originally in and its an awful place to be as it is so disassociated. This is compounded by the prevailing attitudes and methods used by current management, a disastrous mix. So perhaps Marty is right and a slam upside the head will be the only message that gets through, but I do think that slam upside the head isn’t necessarily the most effective action. Its really a pity that they don’t take the hand he holds out to them, for I do believe that he would offer them auditing, the one thing that would bring them into a world of warmth, caring and yes, even love that clearly permeates his world.

    And I do believe that more than anything, that is what Marty wishes for. Just look at the smiling faces of the pices that are posted on this blog, look at the hands that reach out to help, look at the people who have experienced so much relief.

    So really, my post is not a criticism of Marty at all — it is a thank to him for getting on the right track, and that track is clearly expressed in the title of this blog – “moving on up a little higher.”

    I personally do not know how anyone could have reached me when I could feel nothing for another person but I do suspect that having someone rather forcibly tell me to knock off hurting others would have at least given me pause. But I really wanted Marty and others to have my point of view so that they can crank it into the equation at least, if they haven’t already done so.

  290. To the blog post: Amen.

  291. martyrathbun09

    Hi Geir! Howzit?

  292. martyrathbun09

    I think more Spartacus than Sparta.

  293. martyrathbun09

    Who is talking about “running away from”? Man, the dub in around here sometimes gets bizarre.

  294. Cat Daddy~I knew what you meant. Sometimes if you come out against CofM (in this case females) you get “victimized” even more by certain assholes.

  295. oracle,
    You are posting with a different syntax on this thread. It stands out to me because some of your earlier remarks, from some weeks ago, were kind of ‘sketchy’ IMO. Not quite backhanded, but not forthright. But a difference between then and now. You use a pseudonym, so it’s possible more than one writer is posing as ‘the oracle’, much as you adduce in your comments.

    I dunno if you’ve done a ‘disservice’ to me. You can write to me directly if I’ve done one to you.

  296. Marty~Thank you, exactly the facts, not PR. That is how you make a difference over the many other sites that totally turned me off and kept me enturbulated/confused/PTS and to me, made being an auditor outside CofM untenable; too much fighting over who’s right or wrong with disregard for what LRH himself expected. That is the whole point of why I’m here. I want to do what LRH already showed me works and nothing else.

  297. Geir Isene rocks big time ! Hello friend nice to see you here.

  298. L. Ron Hubbard, 1952, History of Man, Chapter 8

    “Theta clearing is about as practical and simple as repairing a shoe
    lace. It is nothing to do with hypnotism, voodooism, charalatanism,
    monkeyism or theosophy. Done, the thetan can do anything a stage
    magician can do in the way of moving objects around. But this isn’t
    attained by holding one’s breath or thinking right thoughts or voting
    Republican or any other superstitous or mystic practice. So for the
    reason I brought up, rule out, auditor, any mumbo jumbo or mysticism,
    spiritualism, or religion.”

    The Creation of Human Ability, L. Ron Hubbard, 1953.

    “Society, thirsting for more control of more people substitutes religion
    for the spirit, the body for the soul, an identity for the individual
    and science and data for truth. In this direction lies insanity,
    increasing slavery, less knowingness, greater scarcity and less society.

    “Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a
    psycho-therapy nor a religion. It is a body of knowledge which, when
    properly used, gives freedom and truth to the individual.”

    Letter to Helen O’Brien, 1953




    The arrangements that have been made seem a good temporary
    measure. On a longer look, however, something more equitable will have
    to be organized. I am not quite sure what we would call the place –
    probably not a clinic – but I am sure that it ought to be a company,
    independent of the HAS but fed by the HAS.
    I await your reaction on the religion angle. In my opinion, we
    couldn’t get worse public opinion than we have had or have less
    customers with what we’ve got to sell. A religious charter would be
    necessary in Pennsylvania or NJ to make it stick. But I sure could make
    it stick. We’re treating the present time beingness, psychotherapy
    treats the past and the brain. And brother, that’s religion, not mental

    Best Regards,


    The Hymn of Asia, L. Ron Hubbard, p. 1

    “Am I Metteya?
    If you see me dead
    I will then live forever
    I come to you in Peace
    I come to you as a Teacher
    OFFICER OF CHURCH OR SECT [emphasis added]
    I come to you as a Man.”

    Fundamentals of Thought, L. Ron Hubbard, 1956, Bridge Publishing, 1983 edition, p. 7.

    “Scientology is a branch of psychology which treats of [sic] human

    Fundamentals of Thought, L. Ron Hubbard, 1956, Bridge Publishing, 1983 edition, p. 8.

    “The term Scientology is taken from the Latin word scio (knowing in the
    fullest sense of the word) and logos (study of).

    “Scientology, used by the untrained and the trained person, improves the
    health, intelligence, ability, behavior, skill and appearance of people.

    “It is a PRECISE AND EXACT SCINCE [emphasis added], designed for an age
    of exact sciences.”

    Fundamentals of Thought, L. Ron Hubbard, 1956, Bridge Publishing, 1983 edition, p. 55.

    Probably the greatest discovery of Scientology and its most forceful
    contribution to mankind has been the isolation, description and handling
    of the human spirit, accomplished in July, 1951, in Phoenix Arizona. I
    [emphasis added] that the thing which is the person, the personality, is
    separable from the body and the mind at will and without causing bodily
    death or derangement

    Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter (HCOPL) 29 Oct. 1962, “Religion”

    “Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis
    throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual
    activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants
    and solicitors.”

  299. Mike H., What you’re trying to dig into doesn’t matter at all. Theoracle WAS briefed by a Class XII via facebook and forwarded good info. It’s helpful to know.

  300. Jim, I had no idea I was so interesting that my grammar was being analyzed. That is fresh. Announcing that I no value beyond being a “mouthpiece” , may have been offensive, but actually not a disservice.
    Words can be useless. I’ll stop annoying you and mystifying you by dropping them here.

  301. To Mike Hobson and Jim Logan,
    Not sure why you guys got bent out of shape by the way The Oracle chose to present that Class XII’s observations, but it’s pretty clear that the way it was presented was innocuous and that the data in fact aligned with and supported observations of other Independents on this blog. Me thinks that 3rd party and or O/W tech might be needed here.

  302. Tara it is sheer invalidation isnt it.

  303. Making victims is an agreed upon effect. By both beings.

    How about and 11 year old girl and an adulrt man

  304. Or a sea org member forced into getting an abortion.

  305. Obviously I was not talking about you Marty.

  306. Gary,

    Surely you can express disagreement with Allen without resorting to threatening commentary.

  307. There is a bit of confusion about this piece of Jesse Prince
    It would be helpfull if you could correct a few errors.


  308. martyrathbun09

    He was not there. Read my book for the real story.

  309. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    I don’t advocate violence. It was a metaphor for my dislike for people who support anything to do with DM. You need to go back a few postings and see the way I express myself. I’m not a person who treats an SP and anyone attached with him (willingly) lightly. And I defend my friends and family. I will support anyone who has a good heart and that wants to help others to survive.

    Since DM is actively destroying the ONE thing, (LRH Scientology Tech), that will help to save this planet and its inhabitants (all applicable dynamics), and I truly know what that means as an OT, then I WILL call ’em as I see ’em.

    If you need more clarification. Just ask politely. 🙂


  310. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    Please see my reply “MY VIEWPOINTS:” in this blog.


  311. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Cat Daddy,

    Please see my reply “MY VIEWPOINTS:” in this blog.


  312. I stated why Marty is not trusted by some people – because he ran L Ron Hubbard’s Fair Game policies on them for decades.

    That’s actually quite understandable and is in no way an endorsement of DM.

    It’s just a fact.

    So tell me – how does “Remember Allen, Sam’s got a ball bat and singing a tune – “someone’s gonna get it…” (the rest of us are waiting our turn at bat!)” not advocating violence against people who you disagree with, don’t like, thinks advocate DM, or is an “SP”?

  313. thanks for the ack on my questions Gary. I’m glad you call them as you see them. 2wc is not a crime and I am glad that we are able to clarify and understand. I respect your position and viewpoint. Thanks again


  314. martyrathbun09


  315. ΘTater/Gary | July 3, 2010 at 1:49 am | Reply HAPPY HAPPY Anniversary, Marty! What a trip it’s been!

    Oh yeah, by the way, Marty, Mosey, Mike, Karen, Heber (I know you’ll get this soon) and so many others here that I’ve read and blogged with —

    I’ve Pulled The Trigger!!!

    Yep, that’s right… I’ve gone and done it.

    My Name is Gary Lerner, Original OT7, OT8, KTL, PDC

    I am Declaring MY Independence as a Scientologist.

    I will not support any regime that has ANYTHING to do with David Miscavage as he is in my opinion a CRIMINAL for taking my Church and it’s Tech away from everyone. He has altered and abused many many many parishioners and org staff and SO staff.

    I’ve been in Scientology since 1978. I have seen hundreds of beings become free and kind and loving. When I got in I took and OCA test and went right onto the Comm Course at the Santa Barbara Org. I loved it and I never looked back.

    I’ve learned so much about life and livingness. Friendships. Caring for one another.

    Soooo many wins that I gave up counting decades ago!

    A lot of people both staff and public have helped me stay the course and guess what? I was just the most natural thing for me to do. From DAY ONE, I’ve always felt good about what I was doing and promoting to my friends and others.

    UNTIL… BRAIN-DEAD DM decided that HIS brand of tech was what everyone should use!! WHAT F_ _ _ING COJONES!!!

    The “Blind Leading The Blind”!!!??? Total arbitrary horseshit! That day that I saw this on paper I decided that was it for me. I didn’t have an executive’s viewpoint with data I could point to and drum it out of existence. Just my knowingness that this was coming from a squirrel.

    When I was told about this blog I was finally given proof. Not just my feelings but PROOF about all of the CRAP that David Miscavage has unleashed on this planet. I won’t tirade over all of it now. BUT little Squirrel needs to know that I have “spotted” you and you really really have no concept about what a pissed off OT can do for you. You’ve fucked with my Bridge and Whole Track and you are gonna pay dearly for that MASSIVE OVERT!

    All of the beings that have left, your spiritual prison, physically/emotionally/and will soon, get revenge and justice.

    I Read. I Looked. I Listened to LRH. Books and tapes. Courses on communicating, auditing, understanding Matter, Energy, Space and Time as it applies to Theta.

    I GOT IT!! DM, YOU DIDN”T!!!

    To everyone here: Marty and this band of merry Thetans, I AM WITH YOU!!

    I am now an Independent Scientologist!

    Love to All for giving me the space and freedom to JUMP! Woooooo Hoooooo !!!

    ΘTater/GaryL, Le, Ler, Lern, Lerne, Lerner

    (Just had to rip off the kimono )

  316. I don’t make an effort to defend myself if I am in the wrong. I am not interested in defending wrong actions of mine. After this noisy attack I thought perhaps I may have slighted Pierre in someway unwittingly. So I tracked him down as well as his wife who manages his comm lines to take responsibility for any disservice I may have been. In the future and for the record:
    From Catherine: “He has 190 people in his friends list , so the information in his facebook is not private. ”
    From Pierre: “It is a well known fact that anything put on facebook has a way of getting spread around. Anyone who accused you of having violated my confidence is not only deeply ignorant of what facebook is…”

    So, for anyone reading this in the future, Neither Pierre or his wife were offended or will be offended by anyone forwarding information that has originated on his facebook page.

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