Survey: What Impinges — Results

by Mike Rinder

 I recently posted a survey designed to discover what caused people to stop supporting the Church of Miscavology and what current Scientologists are disaffected about.

 Many responded on Steve Hall’s website, many more sent private emails. Thanks to everyone who participated. There were enough sordid stories to keep a horror movie fan occupied for nights on end.  

 The responses may be helpful in reaching out to others. They are summarized below.

 First, what impinged on you to start looking (there were 3 questions designed to get these answers and I have combined the results – of course this totals more than 100% as there was no limit on the number of things anyone could mention).

 Not too surprisingly. OUT TECH was the most common response. Of the 68% who answered with this, most said it was problems with Clear or being sent back to re-do steps on the Bridge.

 64% said it was the VULTURE CULTURE that shoved them out the door. More horror stories of late night reg visits, money being taken off account without permission, absolutely no concern for Bridge progress – just relentless and incessant “Give me your money. All of it. Now. Take a loan and give me more.”

 The next highest percentage (36%) was squirrel ETHICS/INJUSTICES. Many mentioned being on the other end of an ethics cycle where the Church protected a big contributor in direct violation of standard policy.

 35% said they saw Tommy Davis or the wicked witches LYING on TV or read the over-the-top Freedom Mags. Its always good to know what a great job the C of M PR machine does to swell the ranks of those who see the real truth.

 And Dear Leader’s IDEAL ORG strategy apparently only fools some of the people some of the time because 33% said they saw the lies as they had been in the orgs and knew they weren’t expanding, in spite of what the Chairman of Bullshit was trying to shove down their throats.

 25% also said they saw the INTERNET and various write-ups/KRs from Mary Jo, Jason Beghe, Haydn, Jeff, Sherry, Geir, Paul Haggis etc usually after seeing a MEDIA report

 And the other main answers were — the disappearance of management terminals in the church, seeing Dear Leader pretending to be Source or just being himself up close and personal (“unlikable” is the polite term), being forced to read “the Basics”, forced disconnection, mistreatment of staff, and the Glittery Age of Tech Alteration. And just one other noteworthy point – one in twenty said the behavior of Tom Cruise made them start looking for the truth.

 Now, these responses were interesting, but the real eye opener was: “What things do you know from personal experience are sources of upset from on-lines current Scientologists? (What have you heard others say — not just suspect).”

 This question may have gotten the single most uniform response I have ever seen on a survey.

  90% (the other 10% were people who said they didn’t speak to anyone currently in the church so had no answer!) said current Scientologists are upset about the VULTURE CULTURE.

 This broke down as follows:

 Crush regging/IAS creating dangerous environment/no interest expressed in Bridge progress only where is your money/endless phone calls – 62%

 Prices (mostly cost to do endless OT 7 sec checks) – 17%

 Mandatory events/briefings which are actually just reg events – 11%

 There were other answers about out tech, disconnection, injustices, Ideal Orgs, no delivery, GAT/Basics, the impossibility of reporting outnesses internally, lies at events and how it doesn’t add up to what is seen in the orgs – but there is a button that is guaranteed to hit home with current church members: REGGING.

 And more specifically, regging for the IAS/Org Buildings.

 This opens a BIG door. Many have commented in the past that the way to get someone in the church to look is give them an LRH reference. Of course, there is no LRH reference for the IAS or the Ideal Org “strategy” so its hard to show an omitted.

 But there is one LRH reference that is exactly on point.  It is something you don’t see referred to in the C of M these days, though it used to be broadly promoted. It is a magazine article LRH wrote in 1970 entitled What Your Fees Buy (title was changed later to What Your Donations Buy because fees sounded too commercial). Because this is such an important issue, the full text is made available on Steve’s website at You will not find it in the OEC or Tech Vols.

 To summarize the salient points – LRH says he knows Dianetics and Scientology services should be free and wishes they were so. But what you pay for SERVICES has to cover all manner of expenses as Scientology receives no government handouts. Your fees cover the cost of providing the services (the buildings and staff), the support for Sea Org Management, legal defense and PR, eradicating psychiatry and planetary suppression and implementing 4th dynamic programs to help society. You can now show to any Scientologist what LRH says your fees for SERVICES cover.

 Of course Dear Leader, finder of lost tech and stalwart of On Sauciness, has thrown this LRH reference out the window. What the hell, its “inconvenient” to current plans. So, let’s lose it – after all, I am the lost tech king, and it’s good to be the King!.

 Today Scientologists are expected to pay the IAS, the Ideal Orgs, CCHR, ABLE and WISE before you buy services. And even if you run that gauntlet and make it to a normal reg, they will try to sell you another set of Basic books or ACCs for your garage storage or to donate to libraries before they show any interest in actually moving you up the Bridge.

 But, the picture inside the Vulture Culture is even grimmer. While Scrooge McDuckage sits on his ever growing mountain of gold the subject is going to hell in a handbasket.  That mountain is well in excess of a billion dollars – and if someone wants proof of the orders of magnitude, see the IAS 25th anniversary Impact Mag listing ONLY those who  attained new Patron statuses just for the event – it totals $92 million. That does not include anyone who has ever become a Patron Gluteus Maximus or any other status at any other time, or annual or lifetime memberships. How much do you think the IAS has sucked out over 25 years?  

 Now, here is where the depravity really comes in. Dear Leader has become a broken record about how his “Ideal Orgs” are the only thing that will accomplish planetary clearing. In fact, he has conditioned the release of the mythical OT IX and X on all orgs becoming “Ideal”. And of course, an “Ideal Org” is a MEST item, not a Saint Hill size org. A lavish building. It’s why all the vultures circle – to get the MONEY to buy and renovate the building in order to make another “Ideal Org”. You cannot be an Ideal Org unless you have a new fancy building including the “Fully Automated Robot Television™ Public Divisions” (FART).

 So here is the burning question every Scientologist should be asking.

 If you could actually handle this planet and move people on to the highest OT levels (people who have been waiting for 20 years) by creating Ideal Orgs everywhere – why not BUY THEM FROM THE BILLION+ DOLLARS YOU ALREADY HAVE? (Granted, Dear Leader doesn’t let on how much money he has, but any blind bat with a calculator could read the IAS glitzfest mags and see the orders of magnitude)

 If there are 100 orgs needing buildings (and there are certainly NOT more than that as there hasn’t been a new org in 20 years) and you allocated $5 million to each (which will buy and renovate a palace in most cities where there are orgs all the most expensive cities except Tokyo and Paris are done), that’s only half a billion? Wouldn’t even use half of McDuckage’s mound of gold (and just think of the massive income those orgs would generate, flourishing and prospering as they would be AND Dear Leader would still own all the property!) So, why not do this to save the planet?

 Because it is predicated on a HUGE lie. These buildings do NOT make an org that flourishes and prospers. They send 50 Sea Org Missionaires to force some stats out of thelatest ones for a video and the majority languish below make-break point. Invite anyone to visit the original pilot Ideal Org – the one everyone else is supposed to pattern their expansion on: Buffalo. It’s a small and failing, empty org in a lavish, oversized and now rundown building. Or stop by San Francisco where teenage bodyrouters in Girl Guide uniforms will entice you into the org to give you free energy saving lightbulbs and then try to convince you to take a FART tour. Or, or, or.

 But, I am afraid, it is even worse than this. Dear Leader is seeing that his sales pitch is starting to wear thin. It is becoming obvious as more and more “Ideal Buildings” are bought that this is NOT clearing the planet. So, what’s the new line of the vulture culture?  Donate to the IAS so they can make a stable planet so we can build Ideal Orgs!!! Whatever happened to making a safe planet through delivery of Scientology? That’s what LRH said.

 So, you want to impinge on those who are still blinded by the bs?  Hit them where THEIR BPC is boiling. And give them an LRH reference, and some logic that cannot be denied, because it all comes right out of Dear Leader’s mouth and his publications.

 And hopefully enough people can be woken up before what was formerly known as the Church of Scientology becomes just a bunch of empty palaces with the only sign of “life” being the hollow sound of videos reverberating off the perfectly decorated walls.

413 responses to “Survey: What Impinges — Results

  1. The reserves of the church are in excess of a billion dollars.  This COULD buy a multi million dollar building for every single org on earth (even if it was $5 million per building and there are 100 different orgs that need them, thats only half a billion). So reserves could cover Ideal Org strategy without gouging the public any further.

    A billion dollars is a tremendous amount of money.  Looking at it from another perspective, if a billion dollars earned 3% interest annually, it would pay $82,192 a day in interest.  That would be enough to refund two patrons their $40,000 donations every day, day after day, every day of the year.

    It also could fund “scholarships” and a lot of freedbies for National of Islam without even TOUCHING the principle.

    That is why it is so appalling to hear of the rank and file of Scientology being gouged to give more and more for IAS status, and buildings even to the point of taking out further mortgages on their home.

    DM is making minimally $82,192 a day in INTEREST !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Make no mistake he absolutely controls the finance.

    The impression given out by those “EMERGENCY MANDATORY IAS Briefings” is that money given does enormous amounts of good. With increasing world wide emergencies, more money is needed to handle these crises.

    What great cause has been achieved in the last 2 decades ?

    What the public is not told is that he uses parishioner funds as a personal piggy bank ~~
    IAS gives him whatever he wants. Charter jets, expensive vacations, an entourage of make up artist, hair dresser, personal chef, personal computer guy, personal communicator, personal security which are his own personal “Secret Service” fly with him in luxury and bow like toads to his every need. He lives like a rock star.
    How about all the Sea Org labor to maintain his fleet of cars and motorbikes and so on ?

    I was Emailed the story of Raymond Peace, a 92 year old gent from Texas who lived on L Ron Hubbard way who got taken to the cleaners by Howard Becker and Michael Roberts.  I needn’t go into all the story right now, but basically they came by his apartment and exerted undue influence to take everything he had–about $35,000.  He did get some of it back.

  2. Speaking of getting it back, rumor has it that damage control missions are out to forestall disgruntled OT 8 major contributors from asking for their donations back. I guess if you’ve donated a million bucks to the IAS and your spouse has been refused service from Flag because he/she has cancer, that might tend to tick a person off.

  3. Mike,

    A billion dollars, maybe more. All that money doing nothing good. It was extorted from parishioners by lies, lies and more lies. It has been used to fund Miscavige’s lifestyle and persecute escapees and whistleblowers and compensate those who lie to steal more money from parishioners. The wheel goes round and round — a mandela of extortion.

    That money doesn’t belong to Miscavige. It doesn’t belong to the Co$. It belongs to those from whom it was stolen.

    Even Judge Judy would give it back.

    Just Me

  4. Just Me — you are oh so right, as usual. Ill-gotten, out exchange money burns more than a hole in your pocket. It burns holes in your thetan. Even Judge Judy knows that! Mike

  5. Mike,
    Thank you for the results and the appropriate reference folks can print and USE with their fellows who are still contributing to David Miscavidge’s enrichment.

    I also enjoy your sense of satire and VERY creative writing.

  6. PackMan – You’re welcome. I believe there are two really important points when dealing with current Scientologists. Talk about something that is REAL to them and have an LRH Reference. It’s no more than what LRH says in the ARC triangle. I was surprised that the responses were so overwhelmingly similar. And there are a lot of people who will remember this reference — it used to be used all the time. Sarcasm comes naturally when assaulted by the overwhelming outpoints that leap out of the C of M like the alien leaped out of thatguy’s chest in the movie Alien. Mike

  7. Some time ago I was a major mover and shaker on the ABLE lines. My accomplishments were being used by IAS regs to get more donations. I kept asking over and over, if parishoners are being asked to donate because they think they are funding causes like the mine then why can’t I get an IAS grant or have access to some of the money being regged on behalf of my results. I had been paying for all of the expenses using the money we received for services we delivered. It was a tough haul, but nonetheless we paid for ourselves without the help of ABLE or the IAS. I finally get pissed off enough and submitted an IAS grant application via ABLE. I was denied because I was told that Monique Yingling would not approve it and there wasn’t the funding available. It just didn’t fit the current mission and purpose of ABLE and the IAS. So you tell me how they use my efforts and my results to suck out money from other SCN’s, but yet it doesn’t fit within the current mission and purpose of those sectors?

    I worked my butt off to bring LRH tech to the social sector I was involved with, however the thanks I got was keep on busting your ass to give us the wins, but don’t ask for any money!

  8. Lucy,

    This is a very important point. Evidence from individuals like you that while the IAS gathered together your wins to reg with, you never got a cent to support your activities is invaluable. People do not know that the promotion of the IAS to sucker people is no different than the promotion by Diamond Dave to convince people to give money to his Idle Orgs because they are all flourishing and prospering so well and it is what is truly clearing the planet.

    If there are other out there that were in ABLE (or Marketing, they did the same thing with marketing campaigns — used them to reg but didnt give money to marketing other than enough to get something on the air to show at an event), chime in with your information too. I will keep track of it and compile the testimony.


  9. Thanks Mike and I have a lot more details of what went on and the inside of ABLE workings. It is frightening having looked back now that I am sitting on the outside. Rena Weinberg will be shitting her pants if she thought I was about to expose what I know. If she is out of SP hall, she will be headed right back there!

    ABLE is still reaping the benefits TODAY from my accomplishments. Not just in one sector but many sectors have benefited because of what I did.

  10. Ne Obliviscaris

    Excellent product, Mike.


    Here’s to a boom year in the independent field.

    And yeah, Davey boy was lookng a little red-eyed at this years MV anniversary, wasn’t he?

    Good on ya’ Mate,

  11. Ne Obliviscaris

    By the way,

    I had to deal with this a couple of times yesterday after a couple of people who are still in C of S contacted me.

    And yes Mike, I did use the “What Your Fees Buy” ref from Steve’s site. Your survey was spot on as a “why” finder.

    Just as a practical note, in both cases I had to point out that it is (just like you said) what your donations for SERVICES buy. Not a general, “What your donations buy”. For some reason people gloss over this important point.

    Thanks again for the correct indication.


  12. Now that is clear what has taken place all these years in the “Church” under DM, I do not plan to finish my OT levels under the CoM. I know where I can finish them, so I am not concerned on a 1st dynamic basis. What does concern me is how to get trained up to class 6 and how to get others trained as well.
    Also, I feel there needs to be a strategy for regrouping so that we can continue to do what we all wanted to do when we got in…increase our spiritual awareness and that of others. I think of the KSW policy. At this point, DM is a barking dog chasing its own tail. We can get free of him and his whirlwind, but how do we push forward the theta purpose. The planet is still on a steep downward spiral and this deserves attention and is heavy on my mind. Any suggestions?

  13. Mike,

    Thank you again. Your post denotes lots of work and effort to keep us informed, and I assume you get 0$ for all this. You truly know the meaning of serving your fellows. Nobody will ever say you were out exchange here.

    One would think that disconnecting from LRH Source would make one feel a loss. When I disconnect from COB-ology, a loss was not what I felt. It was the opposite. All I had to do was just be honest with myself and examine that feeling to know I did the right thing.

    Your observations and your kind donation of time to this blog is greatly appreciated, and your contributions are highly enlightening.

    You rock, as well.


  14. Virgil Samms

    I want to ask a favor of the lurkers or those under radar. Please either go to your org or ask someone who is on lines or just check it out and see if you can get the following stats:

    1. GI average for last 6 weeks.
    2. VSD average for the last 6 weeks.
    3. STP average for the last 6 weeks.
    4. WDAH average for last 6 weeks.

    Don’t need the exact stats. If someone knows a supervisor at an org that knows approximately the stats from meetings or so forth will work.

    I don’t need this data for mysef because I have been in a pile of orgs in the last year and I know what is going on. But I want to use the data for dissem purposes. Getting dialed in on the orgs would cause a tremendous surge in a lot of things.

    Please email me at and it will be kept confid. Please do this right away.

    Thanks, Tom

  15. Freedom Fighter

    ” Talk about something that is REAL to them and have an LRH Reference. It’s no more than what LRH says in the ARC triangle. ”


    EXACTLY! The key part here, IMO, is “something that is REAL to them“. It’s similar to finding the person’s ruin.

    If someone had come up to me and told me that DM beats his staff and was holding people prisoner at the Int Base, I would have blown them off because it wasn’t real to me at the time. But when I read an e-mail sent to me about specific examples of widespread out-tech and off-policy actions along with the references violated (such as what is shown on, those things were real to me as I’d witnessed/experienced many of them myself. I was so relieved to find that I wasn’t the only one who was seeing these things and it ended years of introverting.

    Great survey! Thanks for doing this!


  16. Mike thank you so much for the results. This is just disgusting. I can tell you from people I personally know, “Idle Orgs” are so empty, the public are so burned out, there is no more money to give. It all needs to be given back.
    It is a crime and anyone involved in this “regging” is a criminal plain and simple.

  17. Virgil Samms

    Mike, as usual, you bring a tremendous amount of data to the table. Your leadership and work is legion. I hope OSA learns to read soon. I hope they learn to do stat analysis as well. I’ve been in the orgs and sent others in the orgs and it is not a happy scene out there.

    Someone came on my lines the other day and asked me to hook up with him and I told him my status. He tried to handle me with the party lines. I pointed out that the party lines are full of empty stats and asked him to actually see the stats himself. His response? He gets all the stats he needs from events. I asked him for specifics and he could not give them to me. I sent him off to do a doubt formula.

    Your data is going to be good to punch through this non-confront these public seem to have in spades these days.

    ML Tom

    ML Tom

  18. Thanks Tom. You raise a very good point about the state of the orgs. I was thinking today that maybe we should put together a website and compile the real scene in the orgs. There are people that read this blog all over the world that could walk into their local org and actually observe what is going on — are there any public? Are there any students on course? Any auditors in the HGC? Anyone in Qual? They could even take photos. It would be good to have a central location where they can be gathered together. Maybe Steve would devote a section on his site to reports from orgs around the world. Lucy brought up the IAS donations never making it to the programs they raise money for — same thing could be done there. I will get together with Steve and maybe we can get something put together. Mike

  19. Tom. I just responded to your other post saying this exact same thing!!! I hadnt seen this one yet! You are way ahead of me. Mike

  20. Thanks Centurion. You are very kind. I do what I think is the right thing to do, and that has its own rewards. Mike

  21. Scott — my pleasure. If it helps just one person to see the light it served its purpose! Mike

  22. Tony DePhillips

    Great point Lucy.

    Another bullshit outpoint spotted. It makes no sense for them not to finance you. Thanks for doing what you did.

  23. Mike,
    I didn’t partake in the survey, but count me in on the Elitist Vulture Culture and out-tech categories as reasons prompting me to stop not-ising the flood of out-points and start taking a hard look.

  24. Lucy,
    I don’t mean to derail this, but Monique Yingling is on an approval line for funds? Huh?

  25. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Mike for doing all this and continuing to bring justice. When I used to see you as a public at events I always felt that you were a man of integrity. You are walking the walk as Marty would say and I am sure I speak for everyone here that we really appreciate what you are doing and have done.

  26. Scott Campbell

    Theta the Solvers in comm. Fantastic.

  27. Mike,
    Thanks for the survey. It was good therapy to be a part of it, and even more so seeing the results presented in your no BS manner.

    Just rich, really really rich. And right smack on the money!

  28. Karen,

    One other thing I forgot to mention in the post. Remember “SEF”? The fund the GO started to raise money to defend those in the crminial case? When that was found out about, LRH shut it down. And of course DM was very vocal about how criminal the GO was for trying to reg people for anything other than services.

    Oh, how times have changed.


  29. Dan — yeah, I have heard the same thing. Those Damage Control missions are pissing into the wind. They don’t have anything to bring to the table to make things right. Meanwhile, the damage is being inflicted from within with increasing force and regularity every day. Mike

  30. Mike,

    Can you post some of the relevant policies regarding fees/donos …. I do remember the ‘What You Fees Buy’ reference off a course I did in the ’70s, but if we could compile a few, it would be a quick reference /dead agent pack for epople on the fence.

    I’d also like to write you back-lines with some other info & questions.


  31. Oops … I need your email – forgot that 😛

  32. Scott Campbell


    I was on Exec Council on the Freewinds. Sometimes I would have to go down and 8-C the Advisory Council to finish it’s weekly stat analysis so they could start on the Financial Planning submission and we wouldn’t have to stay up too late.

    Wally Burgess had an LRH stat analysis that he would bring with him every time.

    My favorite line in it was (possible paraphrase) “Let’s see, Gross Divisional Statistics are down… HCO must be running a Heavy Ethics campaign.”


  33. This is exactly what is needed, IMHO. As any of those who have been in the SO know, you can not talk to each other about anything that could be considered derogatory against the C of Mestology or counter to “command intention”. Therefore, the only thing staff can say to each other about “Ideal Orgs” is what the party line is feeding them. If they were to say what they personally observe, it could become an “ethics” matter and end them up on the RPF. I know of someone in the SO who talks about the Ideal Orgs with great pride, but that person has not stepped foot into any of them. He is getting his data from other SO who have first-hand data. What he is being told is how wonderful it all is and how successful they are. I asked this person — what about the Buffalo Ideal Org? His answer is, that org only got their Ideal BUILDING, it never became an IDEAL ORG… BUT, he says, the orgs that have become Ideal Orgs are flourishing and prospering. He isn’t considering the fact that THE TRUTH CANNOT BE TOLD, only the party line can be forwarded. (You can’t even mention to your spouse, for example, that you might like to have a baby, without the high possibility of getting into trouble. — I wonder how many people reading this blog who have never been in the SO even realize just how bad this gets.) So he, and others like him, continue to think the “SO” is doing all this good for mankind and moving forward in winning the war against insanity, etc. and thereby continues to believe in what he and his fellow SO members are doing IS the greatest good.

    Having no personal data about any of the Ideal Orgs myself, there was nothing more for me to say about it. If those who are near can get the actual data about the Ideal Org in their area, that would be very helpful.

  34. I’ll make a couple of points:

    You natter about Ideal Orgs and how bad it all is over there (at the Church) but what Scientology have you delivered in the last year? Where’s your devlivery stats?

    Since you also complain (natter) so much about how the Church is being run you obviously must know how it should be done. But, why is it that when you had your chance and were over the FSO way back in the early 1980s, you ended up in a heap of trouble for destructive actions and were sent to the RPF? (And don’t give me the lame, crap, cop-out excuse that LRH was given false data about you.)

    I know that you hate Idea Orgs, but you hated the FSO too back in the day when you had your chance and were summarily fired from the job. In fact that is what got you into trouble?

    I guess you haven’t changed much have you?

    To sum up, you’ve got zero stats on building any org. So, if the squirrels want to follow you, so be it and good luck.

  35. Jewel, As for training up to Class VI, you could do a lot worse than reading all the Basics books and listening to the accompanying lectures for starters. Meanwhile, start reading the tech vols and the issues that came out in between the release of the books. You’ll find the lectures listed in the tech vols. You don’t need to listen to all the lectures listed, just the ones that are part of the Basics. Then, when you came to the SHSBC lectures, listen to those in chrono order along with the tech vol issues. When you finished all the tech vols, you’d have a full theoretical grasp of the entire subject. At some point we’ll have Independent Checksheets for everything but for the time being, this would get you started.

    Future expansion, in my opinion, relies HEAVILY on putting as much heavy lifting on the internet, making materials available on-line, working out ways to critique TR and metering on-line, which, with Skype, is a piece of cake and similar internet-friendly solutions. Oh, yeah, having the tech films would help too. I guess some independent thinking org Tech Films I/C will have to take some initiative in that regard. The fact is, the Scientology movement needs LRH’s materials made available far and wide and at as low cost as possible–only a very small percentage of the world’s population can afford any books or lectures at current prices much less services. The point is to bring LRH to the planet, not bring those relative few who can afford it into glittery buildings for reg interviews.

  36. thanks for doing this survey Mike.

    Orgs were supposed to be places that picked up the ball when bad field auditing messed up people’s cases.

    Now it’s reversed roles.

    Is it possible to sue RTC for failing their duties?

    Is that too costly and tricky to do?

  37. rory Medford

    Is there a worse word then VULTURE? if not we should create one as the church is wayyyyyyy out of hand and they will take your last penny and some if you let them.

    They are super duper vultures with blood sucking fangs!!!

    i don’t know, I think they are worse then that…

    they prey on the weak, they prey on the strong, they prey on the uninformed, they prey on the parishioners who just do NOT look at whats going on

  38. Mike, good job on the survey and compilation. Your entertaining analysis is much appreciated as well.

    The Semantic Wiki (defined at the link below) would automatically tabulate and update the totals of on-line public reported from all over the world whenever someone made an update to the wiki. Any kind of list can be kept updated automatically and it doesn’t rely on the work of any one person to maintain it. (Lists of independent practitioners, releases, OT’s made…anything, can be tabulated AUTOMATICALLY by the semantic wiki)
    Automatic survey results tabulation, search-able reference library, search-able LRH biography by date range or research track or location, projects…are a few of the other amazing things this technology can do as well. And it allows for an unlimited number of contributors so the quantity of data can explode in a very short time.

    There’s some amazing technology available, all that’s needed is a little willingness to use it.

  39. VS:

    Seems this posting really struck a nerve Dave.

    As to your first point — what I HAVEN’T done in the last year is any of the following as you have:

    1. Crush regged people and taken their money for NO EXCHANGE under fraudulent circumstances.
    2. Lied to the Scientology public about the massive expansion and how well the orgs are doing in order to sucker them into giving more money for a squirrel strategy that is destroying orgs instead of building them towards what LRH said in LRH ED 339R.
    3. Delivered squirrel services and pretended they were real Scientology.

    Your memory seems a bit distorted. I was sent to the RPF for the stats of the SO Orgs, not the FSO. I went to the RPF and did the program, RDD’d all the way through NOTs in order to be able to do FPRD, and returned to hold numerous executive posts. I guess if I was that bad then it doesnt say much for Dear Leader putting me on as CO CMO Int or WDC OSA or International Spokesperson for the Church or being on the Board of DIrectors of Church of Scientology International for 20+ years?

    You would do well to worry about what is happening inside your organization and doing something about it rather than spending your time trying to dead agent the messenger.

  40. Good old Wally. Or, er, rather Cmdr Burgess.

    Here’s a recent photo of Wally taken in LA,

  41. Rory — agreed. It rhymes with culture and was sort of descriptive and catchy at the same time. Maybe vampire empire is better? Mike

  42. I was involved with Criminon in the 1990’s. We wrote a grant to the IAS for $30,000 and did recieve the funds. That year Joan Lonstein won the Religious Freedom Medal. The next year, we sent a grant into the IAS for another $30,000. After months of waiting, we recieved a comm back that the IAS would only approve one grant ever for any one organization. But, to this day, the IAS uses Criminon in their regging efforts.

    By the way, for those of you who knew Joan Lonstein, she passed away in June 2010. She had completed OT VIII several years ago and became very ill upon her arrival at home. She had been sick since then, many Dr’s were contacted but none could find a cause of her sickness.

  43. VS,

    You might want to look up the definition of natter … asking for references and stating an outpoint & pointing someone TO a references for outpoints observed does not constitute natter. Nor is a survey and posting the results for that matter.

    It is time for you to really LOOK at the outpoints you know are there and have thought about yourself.

    That’s what Ron wanted – why shouldn’t you?

  44. rory Medford

    Yep that is more descriptive because the entire empire from top to bottom have become crush reg vampires

    so the EMPIRE of VAMPIRES is a good description

    It sounds like a movie and DM can be the lead actor he would be a NATURAL

  45. Tony DePhillips

    Smack that bitch down Mike!!!

  46. Scott Campbell

    You’re right, Chuck. Commander Burgess.

    Wally was my buddy on the ship. We often consulted regarding the disposition of the WQSB, Sea Org history and traditions, etc.

    One of my favorite stories regarding ‘ol Walley is when a friend of mine was getting the kangaroo Comm-Ev treatment.

    Just before going into the meeting, he spotted Cmdr. Burgess in the hallway and asked him “Any advice?”

    Mr. Burgess looked him dead in the eye and said: “Don’t let the bastards get you down.”

    ‘Nuff said

  47. VS weighing in for DM.
    Do you excuse Assault and Battery ? it is a felony, you know

    I was a highly-positioned staff member of the Church of Scientology for many years and most people would be shocked to discover the extent of my positive contributions. After some 25 years on staff, however, including a span of approximately 20 years in Scientology’s international headquarters in Gilman Hot Springs, I decided to leave staff due to the unethical practices of David Miscavige, the self-appointed dictator of the Church. Specifically, on four separate occasions Miscavige physically assaulted and violently battered individuals in my presence, sending a strong message that anyone in the room was likely to be next, especially me. Once he picked up a large, heavy glass ashtray and threatened to strike me with it. The standoff lasted about 60 seconds, him fuming, ashtray in hand stating he was going to hit me with it. Me, standing on the other side of the conference table, incredulous, alarmed, having no clue why or even what I had done wrong. Prior to that, he had walked in holding one of my “submissions,” a legal-size manila folder about 2″ thick with paper, wrapped with strong rubber bands, weighing about as much as a ream of paper, and threw it at me hard. Another time he threw a submission at one of my staff.


    Miscavige drew close. “We’re standing there sort of at attention. He looks at me, he looks at Rinder. He looks at me, he looks back at Rinder. And then suddenly, with violence, he flashed his arms up and grabbed Mike Rinder’s head and body-slammed his head into the cherry wood cabinets. “He lifted Mike Rinder nearly off of his feet and smashed his head into the wall, and he banged his head into the wall three times, just BANG, BANG, BANG!”

    Care to comment VS ?
    Got anything to say on the beatings instead of prattling hogwash on “Delivery Stats?”
    You are an embarrassment as a DM emissary.
    You embarrass yourself

  48. rory Medford

    one thing LRH was 100 percent SPOT ON all the time and that is

    The truth will be revealed and life itself will put ethics in on an individual and a group

    Its just a matter of getting the truth out on ALL THE COMM LINES of the world to expose the criminality and injustice the current management puts on its members

    One by One the flock leaves and the orgs will continue to be idle and empty

    DM and his staff are worried and concerned as a matter of fact they are shaking in their boots bc true 1.1 are cowards and spineless

  49. Karen,

    You really are wonderful. Thanks for collecting all this intel and then distributing it — right on point and right on time.

    With great respect,
    Just Me

  50. Karen#1~There’s something I hadn’t even considered…the interest. So do you think he’s actually got money in any interest bearing accounts?
    There’s a whole ‘nother source of income never talked about, of course!

  51. Suddenly Karen! A beautiful if somewhat terrifying sight when seen in full flight…

  52. MR, nice survey

    Boils down to Tech out, Ethics out and Admin out clear and simple!

    How is it going to be justified now that you SPs have been purged from the Church?

    Shouldn’t the stats have recovered since the King Pin and his minions been declared?

    Or have the Psychs returned from obliteration, like a reinfestation of termites?

    Or will it be a few infiltrated enemies discovered hidden amongst the great peoples of the Nation of Islam?

    What will be the next lie/why from the CofM?

  53. Dan,

    If you need the SHSBC packs & checksheets (A-F), let me know.

    I have them in .pdf form

    Tapes would have to be added

  54. Hi Marty, Mike, all you wonderful guys.
    First thing. Any of you recall Mike’s voice when he was up on stage? What a great voice. I read the above dissertation while imagining him being on stage at a “vital, critical, must-attend” event for ALL Scientologists. I could hear his voice and imagined the look of abject horrer on the DM Bots faces as he eloquently rammed home every line. Oh my God, what a picture.

    Second, this is to VS. Maybe you can forward it to him, Marty?
    Okay, here it is. In the last year our little two-man org has produced the following: 9 people through Purif, TRs Objective, ethics handling and full NED DRD to the EP of off-drugs for good. These were all totally new to the subject of Scientology and heavy druggies. Three people through Solo 1, Solo 2 and onto their OT levels. Ten very upset people through a QUARL, cleaned up and eager to get thier next step on the bridge (these were all people who left Flag EXTREMELY unhappy. Five brand new people through Life Repair. Six botched clear cycles from FLAG cleaned up and winning with three of these now on their OT levels.
    This, my dear friend VS, from a tiny little two man group out in the middle of nowhere. I know who you are. I know the angst you feel. I worked on that super secret OSA project for three years. Wake up my friend. Do a stat analysis. Almost all the really good class VIII auditors and C/Ss are out here having tons of fun getting people UP the bridge. The best tech terminals are HERE….not inside Miscavige’s cult. It is a cult, my friend. We are not.

  55. On my last post, should be QARL (Questionable Auditor Repair List).

  56. VS,

    Why are you here if Mike is an incompetent Exec? Are you worried that he just might be more able and powerful then you were lead to believe and now your ser-fac needs to put thing right?

    Chill-out Mike alright. Go and make a kinder gentler more loving Church would you.

  57. There is also the GLF (General Liability Fund) and BF (Building Funds) as well as a percentage of an orgs GI (Payments to Flag) all taken automatically from the orgs and sent to “Flag” (in other words COB). The GLF and BF are being invested by Int Finance and have accumulated probably in the billion dollar figure alone. The Building Fund alone are probably sufficient alone to make the “Ideal Org” strat happen at the blink of an eye. So while staff members don’t get payed, SO members eat crap and public are being robbed, Lord Farquaad …

  58. theystolemychurch

    Mike Rinder

    Thank you for this survey and results. It totally indicates.

    My refund letters to the ias and the various orgs have been sent. I am sure my sp declare is being written, well that is if they get the backlog done so that can do mine… I am sure they have a backlog.

    I have to say the “FART” system still has be laughing.. very, very funny!

    I love that the “anti Mike and Marty sites” always claim your arrogance!

    In fact, the day I met you, I was in the room with several other people and I was the only non-SO there. I was also getting products….and I do not think they were.

    You did not acknowledge the SO members, but you did turn to me and acknowledged me and the products I was getting….

    You carry with you a level of pride and presence, I think that is was it so heavily complained about you on those other sites. My hat is off to you and thank you!

  59. Ops, should be; “Chill-out, Mike’s alright.

  60. Totally agree, there are quite a few fully hatted tech terminals who are Indies. At this point, one needs to find other Indies to get Academies and HGCs set up – Indie forming Missions anyone?

  61. I used to love my Church

    I’ve never had a hole in my thetan before, whew, that must really HURT!

    Good one…..


  62. Probably as legal counsel having to approve transfer of funds from a non-profit to a for profit corporate entity.

  63. VS, just know this, “Justice Is Coming”. You will not be able to stop it.

  64. Mike,
    Thanks for doing the survey and relaying the results.
    And thanks for doing your damndest to improve conditions when you were in the Church those many years.
    I appreciate that.
    And I appreciate seeing everyone’s perspectives.

    I am often reminded of the awareness characteristics when I read these threads. I go through these. (e.g. ruin, fear of worsening, need of change, etc.)

    There are many stories about the violence and crass verbal abuse in the upper echelons of Scientology. This behavior and aberration becomes contagious all the way down the line to the Orgs and Missions. During my 30 years on lines I have run into many wild senarios in the Orgs and Missions. I am glad to see things being exposed for what they are.

  65. becomingAware

    It would not surprise me if a portion was invested. Perhaps some was lost in bad investments. Hmm . . . Might be a way to track that down.

  66. Note that “natter” is being used by DM-bots to shut off anyone merly pointing out out-points. I was once assigned a condition of treason for spotting an outpoint. The charge was “natter”.

  67. Mike,
    Thanks very much, it’s a great use of survey tech and LRH Admin. It sure makes it simple for how one talks to those still “in”. A friend had to open two other stores in addition to his very successful, bread and butter store despite the shaky financial times in order to afford his and his wife’s 6th months checks on VII which I think they’ve been on for a decade, including re-dos!

    I recall a “Survey” that DM did sometime in the ’90s. It was whether the crew preferred to be berthed in town or on the base (within the fence with ultra barrier and gates controlled by Security.) One had to really second guess this and answer correctly, irregardless of what your opinion was. Those who answered the former got in trouble, and there was a reverse PR/make wrong campaign on all at the Int base. Quite a number of staff liked to shop in town so the Canteen got Von’s shopping carts and a big “Von’s” sign on it.

  68. Marty – you are a DANGEROUS foe, I sure hope I never cross swords with you! DEADLY survey….my own main beefs were (in this order):

    1. Insane “ethics” actions
    2. Out-tech
    3. Lies from upper management
    4. Silly “programs” for orgs that were/are MILES away from right targets
    5. Apparent abandonment of The Data Series by orgs and upper management
    6. Myth-making vis-a-vis LRH (painful for those who were around when he was)
    7. Abuse of MSH and the Hubbard family

  69. OOPS! My mistake, in my previous post I addressed Mikw as “Marty”.

    Everything applies, however.

    Great analysis, really clear thinking.

  70. Mike, ThankYou very much for doing this survey and compiling the results.

    My guess was most responders would name the IAS/crush reggingVulture Culture as the major factor driving people away from Scientology and preventing them going up the Bridge.

    I have been off the Bridge for many years, and I find your results are very validating for me, that the IAS was and is my ruin, and the reason I did not progress further. It is also the reason I stopped disseminating – I could not bring myself to introduce new people to an org that allowed the IAS vampires in.

    So thanks again for backing up what I felt about the scene. Piece by piece, you guys are putting together the nails and the coffin for Miscavige and his cronies. Good job.

    And, what does VS stand for? My guess – “Vampire Suckup”.

  71. Lucy,

    What you describe is called fraud and can be a crime.

    “Common law fraud has nine elements:[2][3]
    a representation of an existing fact;
    its materiality;
    its falsity;
    the speaker’s knowledge of its falsity;
    the speaker’s intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
    plaintiff’s ignorance of its falsity;
    plaintiff’s reliance on the truth of the representation;
    plaintiff’s right to rely upon it; and
    consequent damages suffered by plaintiff.”

    I think the church endangers itself by allowing this to occur.

    And since fraud can be criminal in some circumstances, the whole weight of the government can be brought to bear.

    The damaged party would be the parishioners who had been misled, and with all the people leaving the church, someone may just want to pursue this.

  72. Jesse Prince

    Karen, I love the way you did the numbers. You were always more aware. but that in itself is a double-edge sword. Check out my new post on my facebook page. Please don’t be mad. I can’t imagine you without “Gully” whom I suspect may be long gone.

    Jesse Prince

  73. VS=Very Stupid
    And that ain’t no ancient Chinese secret.

  74. Virgil Samms

    Hey VS, I’m telling OSAI that you are on Marty’s blog, which, I believe, is now a suppressive act, unless ou have special permission. Is that the case?

    ML Tom

  75. Ready to jump


  76. Boy, this sounds like little Dave himself speaking!!! Do you know that I’ve audited more than your org in sardinia just by myself in the field? It’s a shame that your fucked up personnel can’t audit and train people anymore. And if that’s not enough, I’ve even had to activate an assistant to audit these I couldn’t do by myself due to overwelming demand. How do you like that asshole?

  77. Virgil Samms

    Hey Mike, great minds and all that. Yes, let’s get this data collected. I can handle it here with a spreadsheet and post it. I think this information would be stupendous.

    So guys, please get the info to us. We need it as fast as possible. Thanks!!

    ML Tom

  78. Mike and Marty,

    Great job on the surveys.

    Two things I wanted to point out. First, the Auditor Magazine article you reference — “What Your Donations Buy”– actually CAN be found in the OEC Volumes. The reason I know this is because I saw it quoted on the Friends Of LRH website many months ago, and exactly after that quote, they give the OEC Volume and page number.

    This can be found at:

    Once you’re on this page, you go to the category, “Buildings and Fundraising,” and click on “Donations”.

    This brings up an even more important point for me. My husband and I recently wrote in to Marty’s site and explained how we recently evaluated what was working for us in getting people to cog on what was really going on in the church. I pointed out that our best results by far were from using the Friends Of LRH website because of its cold, hard, undeniable facts and figures. I also noted in that same blog to Marty that Mike’s survey also had at least 6 or 7 people who wrote in that the Friends Of LRH website turned the tide for them too.

    As Mike correctly points out, people need something REAL to them along with ACTUAL LRH references. I know of no better tool than the Friends Of LRH website that does just that. There are so many categories covered in just the first section titled COB versus LRH that there’s something for everyone who is willing to look.

    Because my husband and I have had such great success in using this site to get through to current church members– and the results of Mike’s survey show that many other people have too– is there some way you guys can make a stronger point of this on your next blog?

    Thanks for everything you do.

    Devon McAuley
    Ian McAuley
    original Class VIs

  79. Scott Campbell

    David LaCroix,

    Good idea David. Are you conversant enough with the tech to set something like that up and hat people on how to report?

    If not, you need to TR-3 it till it gets done.


  80. Scott Campbell

    Right on, Mike.

    As LRH said, most of the freedoms are “freedoms from”

    Why aren’t Scientologists free to just BE – in the Church of Scientology.

    All of this doing without having can only result in one thing for Scientologists in the C of S.

    NOT BE.

    VS, when are you going to let them BE? When they’re dead?

  81. Mike,

    Thanks very much for the above report!

    One month after its opening, the Seattle org averages less than five public at any given time in the academy during Day hours.

    This from a trusted friend, still on lines, known by several local indies.

    Point is, the only thing that happened is that a lot of good people gave up a lot of money for fancy real estate but nothing was improved where it counts: service.

    A staff member who doesn’t know I’m out told me this week that staff are routing off. That the promoted 170 number was quickly diminishing.

    Our long-time GAT trained Senior C/S is literally missing in action. The shore story coming from the org is that he is taking a year off to help a sick family member. Anyone who knows anything about this church knows that no Senior C/S would ever be allowed this priviledge, especially right through the Grand Opening of your Idle Org!

    Me thinks the C/S and his long-time Day auditor wife are all done. It’s pure speculation but does the above make any sense?

    Our org doesn’t have enough parking. About 22 spaces. The staff hog it, overcrowding with cars parked at angles, etc. They have to turn in their keys at the front desk should there need to be a little musical cars.

    There is no cafeteria. That’s right, the Seattle Idle org has no lunchroom. No place to sit while eating. No place to store food.

    There is no storage for student course materials. You literally park a block and a half away, if you get lucky, carrying your dictionaries and course packs along with you to and fro. Oh….and don’t forget to grab your meter, too!

    Lastly, the front of the building, with its fancy illuminated cross and SCIENTOLOGY letters, can only be seen if you’re standing within a block of the building. It’s in a high-traffic, nowhere zone, just north of downtown. Hard to get to and totally obscured from the main arterials or any foot traffic in the area, of which there is almost none.

    Any Seattle indie here can confirm the above.


  82. Forget about it !
    I asked for it 2 weeks ago.
    You’ll never get any stats. The only stats
    you get is about wdah of FLag.

  83. Mike;

    Just had a moment to re-read your post (I’m at work)…it had seemed to me that Miscavige had staked WAY too much of his credibility on the foolish Ideal Orgs program – and that this could be the tipping point where a palace coup becomes possible. I now have staunch, “yeoman” Scientologists complaining bitterly to me about the book pulping pgm, DM in general, and Ideal Orgs. These are guys who have remained loyal no matter WHAT.

    I think DM has shot his bolt. We’re getting close to a spontaneous uprising.

  84. my I add:
    My way out was not being able inside to clear out the Clear cycle. Any out tech leaves behind a “ball of charge”. As you quoted: “services should be free” and as I know too that in this society that would be impossbile I ask those kindly who know:
    Would be a good idea to compile data and things one could do alone, to at least handle some of the “ball of charge” left behind. Shure there had been some issueing “self auditing” stuff on the net. But I do not trust them.
    Why I ask for that?
    Can you imagine that it would be very difficult after going through some “chruch” experience to hold the can an trust the auditor?
    No matter who.
    I think that is the key damage CofM had done.

  85. Problem is that DM has decimated the tech with his squirrel alterations and training. Even if he wanted to exchange fairly with the public (which would be a foreign concept to such a criminal) the tech results from the biggest squirrel group ever at best are poor and at worst are downright dangerous. The church can no longer sustain the over-inflated prices the public have to pay to NOT recieve LRH tech. Whatever the excuse used to squeeze more money out of the public, whether it be barbeque fund raisers or raping the spirit in ‘exchange’ for his freedom the result is the same. DM no-longer has anything of value to exchange with. The tech is gone and the church is dead.
    Mike… no words. Time and again you prove that you have risen to a level where nothing can strike you down. Thank you for the DM/VS smackdown, I enjoyed that. As always, deepest respect.

  86. VS
    There is more delivery of real Scientology in one day on this blog than the ‘church’ pretends to deliver in a year. Scientology is about people helping people, not fancy graphs and bullshit PR campaigns.

  87. Karen isn’t ‘sudden’ she’s a lethal weapon 24/7.

  88. Independent Scientologist

    Last night I got an out-of-the blue call from a woman I knew casually when I was recently on lines at AOLA.

    I couldn’t imagine why she was calling me. Was it to share wins? To catch up on what I was doing? Had she heard that I was now an Independent Scientologist and needed to talk?

    None of the above. She was dialing for dollars. Ran out of intensives on her OT V at AO, so they gave her the boot, she had money on account at FLAG and showed up there, it still wasn’t enough to finish her V, so in order to avoid being given the boot by FLAG she was calling anyone and everyone in her rolodex to loan her a substantial amount of money.

    I politely declined to give her anything (she’s not a bad person), wished her well and after I hung up thought, “Damn I’m glad I’m out of that church!” This woman sounded frantic and degraded and she was clearly directly parroting lines fed to her by a FLAG reg for why it was OK to beg for money to do Scientology services.

    I’m temped to call her back and try to straighten her out.

  89. Ghost Wizards

    You know, does not Empire Caligula resonate E/S ( earlier similar) to Empire Dracula?

    Just a query

    Both Wizards, just horseing about ( Vampire horse-that is) more horses=more consular power. ” Not just a daft wizard” !

  90. dm™ can´t control himself, therefore is his responsibility and knowingness low.

  91. Note: Could you please replace my earlier comment through this one? I added the evidences in this one.

    Tara, if you want to look at some evidence you find it here:

    Click to access fst-to-irs-1023.pdf

    Go to the last sentence on page 5: „Currently, its primary source of support is interest on bank deposits. “

    I happen to know some persons who took a loan themselves so they could „support that urgent intention of LRH“ and who took a personal loan to give it to the Flag Ship Trust and payed bank interests for years before they had it payed back. When they found out that their money was just sitting on another account, giving interest for the FST they were quite annoyed. To them a completely different picture was presented and it was even specified to them what equippment was to be BOUGHT with the money from them.

    The Flag Ship Trust was started on 26. Dec. 1985 with initial $ 5,8 Millions from the IAS (from me and you). The persons representing the IAS in this were: Mr. Carl Heldt, Paulene Chatterton, Helen Wehl. ( ) Then that Flag Ship Trust started to collect donations. From the data available it appears that this money has never been spent for that purpose.
    The vessel is owned by San Donato Properties Corporation and is chartered to Majestic Cruise Lines Inc.( ) From 1990 on the annual charter was US$1,250,000, before that year it was US$ 2,500,000. ( . FST was the sole shareholder of San Donato Properties. Another FST-owned Panamanian corporation, Transcorp Services owns the mortgage on the Freewinds ($12,500,000 . Majestic Cruise Lines is a Panamanian corporation which operates the Freewinds, receiving payment from FSSO for the use of the ship. (There is also a section on this in the „Freewinds“ entry in Wikipedia.) (Use a demo kit or pen and paper. It is complicated.)
    In short: We have been paying twice, once with the donation „to get the ship“ and again with the „service fees“. And we even payed for the money-machine FST itself with our IAS-donations.

  92. It’s a sad state of affairs when every email or mail received from one’s church is either a glossy advert selling something (at an exorbitant price), or a “donation” request (IAS/Idle Orgs/Super Power). And when one starts to ignore calls from one’s church (to avoid being regged, or invited to a reg event) then things really are in the shit.

    Sorry, Dave. Your “church” is not for me anymore. Never has it been more blatantly obvious that you have NO INTEREST in clearing this planet. You wipe your ass on LRH policy, and disregard even the most basic of tech. (Ever heard of ARC?). As leader, you are supposed to embody the results of your product. Sorry fella, on that point alone I’m just not interested.

  93. I have thought for years that a single person could deliver more than my org does.

  94. Thank you for the work and posting of this useful survey + results.
    There are still people who doesn’t know what’s going on in CoS and it just feels good to educate them, one by one. Still looking forward to the day when we can write a “Done” on this job.

  95. Centurion, by altering and misapplying the Tech, it is the official Church under DM that has disconnected from LRH. The still have the label “Scientology” but they have left Scientology long since.
    By disconnecting from them you have not disconnected from LRH.

  96. Hi Mike, From having been pretty much full time on public lines (including reg and fundraising lines) from 2000 to 2006, I can tell you your survey is spot on.
    And while this is clearly the BPC of the old timers it is also what happens with the new public, who are systematically crush regged before they can complete their Div6B service and therefore be a product of 6B, as per the org board. If they’re poor, they get crush recruited instead. Most people just run away, correctly so.
    So not making any new Scientologists, the orgs have to achieve the vulture culture’s insane quotas with the old hats, so these get canibalized even more. And of course, now they are so disafected that they don’t FSM. And so on. It’s so obvious and widespread a 4 year old could make this evaluation, yet it’s completely taboo “because it comes from the top”. (The latter line was also the line used by the nazis to get compliance. )
    With regards DM’s Div6s, he’s killed it. I toured for more than a year with the WIS? Expo, I/C of the Div6 activities, along with the OSA and PR missions. Already then the idea was that people would run into the org after reading the panels , because they were s-o-o beautiful. What a load of crap. Just does not work. And by the way, for the VSes of this world, who even dare to attack you, I doubt DM has any org experience as all his handlings are completely destructive and disconnected from reality.
    He mainly hates the orgs. Anyway, I wanted to use the expo to sell books. I thought NBSRAW should be the analysis point. It’s per LRH. I fought about it all year, amongst other things, while being run on bodyrouteds only so dear leader could tell the stat at the event of how many people saw his bloody panels. To boot, one year later when I went through all the key EU orgs again, there were no new Scn from the “Crusade”. Every reach had been gotten rid of by the vulture culture. An expensive disaster.
    Another comment, there were new orgs made by EU Cont in the last 20 years, even less. These were Athens, Budapest, St Pete and Moscov. But that was only because they were so far away from DM we could do it despite him.
    And lastly, about Ideal Org fundraising. I’ll take the example of Tel Aviv. I was on mission there to raise the funds for the building and we raised several million dollars. I was told when I was routing out that because I blew and the org found out, the IAS paid for what was missing to buy the building, to handle the PR flap. In retrospect I am quite happy about that.
    In any case, to evade Israeli income taxes, the donated funds were going to SOR and not to a local corporation. The org is not in the name of the org nor of the people who paid for it. Now that building is worth double what it was worth in 2006 as the market has been real strong here. Yet, the parishionners are still paying back the loans they took, and still being regged for the renos I believe. The building just sits there empty making money for SOR, not helping the org that is located in the red light district of Tel Aviv in a back alley, and nothing creative is being done to redirect the parisionners funds to their accounts, for instance.
    If you do this website about the current states of orgs, I’ll go take you plenty of photos. Anyway, there you go. Thanks for all you do.

  97. Do it. It would be a kindness to throw her a lifeline.

  98. How about MISCAVIGE?

    “The public are being miscaviged for every cent they have.”
    “Tim left after being given a brutal miscaviging by the IAS regges.”
    “Sadie decided to stand up to the miscavigery behind the Ideal Org campaign.”

  99. Good TR-4!

  100. Please don’t disrespect Vlad Dracula. He may have made a few mistakes, but he was trying to bring fairness, honesty and a brief breath of freedom to the good people of Wallachia. Those times were different than the modern world. I believe that someone like DM would been skewered real fast.

  101. Daisy,
    Sorry to hear about Joan Lonstein. It’s just so bizarre that many VIII’s crashed, burned and died. I did OT VIII twice and escaped the died part. A hundred hours of GAT reverse auditing pummeled me into a stupor afterwards, resulting in me moonwalking out backwards with a plastic smile on my face in order to escape the rest of the “product”.

  102. VS, I see a valid product done here with no Org, by Mike. Case gain and handling of BPC happens also out of a pc chair. Hundreds of people by just reading the truth that Mike & Marty & many other are making available are getting gains and are de-PTSing themselves. They rehab their ability to see the obvious and to perceive the truth that got invalidated by years and years of bullshit lies told by Miscavige. This is a valuable product.

  103. Mike, David Lee Roth called me last night and he’s really pissed off and insulted that you’re referring to DM as “Diamond Dave.” Now he wants to meet DM on “Mean Street” and give him a swift roundhouse kick to the face. I told him to smoke a bowl to calm his nerves.

  104. Taking the leap worked great for me. I think the key is the intention of the auditor to really help the PC. In the church, the intention can get blunted by suppressive management but outside the church, an auditor losing the intention to help will simply stop auditing. So, it is quite safe to get auditing outside the church.

  105. And, what does VS stand for? My guess – “Vampire Suckup”.

    My guess – “Very Small”.

  106. George,
    You could do the Self Analysis lists, particularly the list that is in the back of the book (at least it used to be) that is recommended in case one gets too restimulated. There are also some solo processes I believe in the old Handbook for Preclears.

  107. ‘stalwart of on sauciness’ LOL
    My local Org now appears to be a social club – BBQ’s, paintball, karaoke but no Bridge. Break-point for the Church may be near. The Ideal Org strategy started six years ago; the more time elapses the more blood-thirsty the vamps get and the more drained of energy the field becomes.
    ‘Oh Davy boy, the cells the cells are calling…’

  108. Worsel~Thanks for the info.
    What your donations buy…it’s all about the money! You get to borrow money and pay interest while they bank it and EARN interest by not using it!
    To hear the torture stories and misery and degradation the S.O. staff are put through on the Freewinds with no pay, crap food whilst Flag Ship Trust rakes in mucho megga bucks…
    It makes me SICK!

  109. Great post Mike.
    You have a brilliant mind. Thank you for all the work.
    I have a question about the IAS. As the legend says it was form in 1984 by some 9 or so very determined and courageous Scientologiest. I always wandered who they are, why they are never shown or named on the events, special at the #25. Do somebody know the names? Or is this just a myth, another DM “Trust corporation invention” . Does he had a major role in the creation of?

    And at least some lesson to the dwarf, the sunny boy ecclestical leader, tech know best, last earth implanter, GOLD assistant cameraman:
    Source of LE Lectures, CD #3, Force as Homo Sapience and as Thetan, Responsibility
    “People can be beaten into being moral, but they can never be beaten into ethical. Because an ethic requires a very good estimation of force. You have to be able to judge to be ethical” LRH

    So what do we learn today, DM never ever wanted to have and create ethical, self-determined individuals around him.
    Thank you for reading.

  110. The only stats you really need to measure service delivery of the orgs are:
    – New Clears, (and cumulative Clears made long-term)
    – New Auditors (Cl5 and Cl6)

    All other “production stats,” while interesting, are only sub-stats of the count of these VFPs that represent the actual forward progress of scientology. Without New Clears there are no New OTs, and without New Auditors, there is no expansion. Don’t get hung up on the sub-stats.

    These stats can be doped out from the “completions” section of the published magazines. Data probably already available on the internet, try a Google of “scientology statistics” and see what comes up…

    The Audtior used to publish the cumulative number of total Clears made. Some years ago they changed to the statement “now there are almost 50,000 Clears,” then they stopped mentioning it altogether. I don’t get the publication anymore — don’t know what’s being done currently.

  111. Independent Scientologist

    Ditto on Friends of LRH.

    There is absolutely no railing against DM on this website (as richly deserved as it is).

    A visitor just gets to see a stunning side-by-side comparison of stats from the 1970s and stats from the DM era.

    Says it all. Quietly and convincingly.

  112. I am laughing…what nutty planning! …a clown act.

  113. Mike, Thank you for your survey data and all you do for real Scientologist in the Indie field.
    How very sad and telling that VS had to use “Ideal Org buildings” as an example of how the COM is out producing the Indie’s.

    Marsha Pearlman Sorensen

  114. Felicitas Foster

    can you please post the link here – I would be interested in what you are referring to here (couldn’t locate it on your FB site).

  115. Tom, I emailed you yesterday email me or something – did you not get my msg?

  116. Felicitas Foster

    I am interested in a copy of the SHSBC packs & checksheets (A-F) . Ist there a place to download them or do you need to send it via email?
    Would also need a list of date and title of the SHSBC lectures.
    Please contact me:
    Thanks a lot in advance.

  117. From August 1993: FST’s initial religious purpose was to receive donations from Scientology parishioners for the purpose of acquiring and outfitting a suitable ocean-going vessel to serve as a religious
    retreat where the most advanced Scientology religious service, New
    OT VIII, could be ministered. FST accomplished its initial purpose in 1988. Since then it has served as one of the repositories for the central reserves of the Scientology religion and makes grants to support the activities of churches within the Scientology international ecclesiastical hierarchy pursuant to CSI’s direction.”
    CSI formed five corporations, all of which are wholly owned by FST. Four of those corps have no staff. If you work on the Freewinds not doing tech delivery or ethics or church stuff, then you work for Majestic Cruise Lines, the fifth corp. FSSO does the church work and FSSO leases its space aboard the Freewinds from Majestic and pays Majestic for the room and board of its staff. FST does not have any staff. It employs SOR Services Limited, to conduct its administrative functions. SOR Services is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Scientology International Reserves Trust that performs administrative, bookkeeping and banking services for FST, SIRT and another non-U.S. trust, Trust for Scientologists, and several non-U.S. Scientology churches.
    FST’s sources of support primarily have been donations from Scientology parishioners either directly or indirectly through IAS … Currently, its primary source of support is interest on bank deposits…
    The trustees of FST receive no compensation from FST – each serves as a staff member of other Scientology related entities; Carl Heldt, Maureen Brigatti, Helen Wehl
    FST employs SOR Services, Ltd. to perform financial and accounting services. Carl Heldt and Maureen Brigatti, also serve as Trustees or Directors of Scientology International
    Reserve Trust, Foundation Church of Scientology Flag Ship Service Org, International Association of Scientologists and Trust For Scientologists. Carl Heldt also serves as a director of New Era Publications International ApS and as a Trustee of International Publications Trust.

  118. Sorry to hear about Joan’s death.

  119. So who are these people?
    Carl Heldt, Maureen Brigatti, Helen Wehl

  120. That really says it all….

    As I write to complain, I stop and wonder “What could I have done?”

    I really didn’t do much except stand on the outside and pay my way. I saw an organization I was not interested in being part. I just was happy to get my auditing.

    Many of you dedicated your lives, only to be betrayed. I have always felt leery about ideological organizations. The sad thing is that I was right. You look into the time track and it is riddle with failed groups. I suppose that is the game of this universe. The ruthless opponent is formidable for honest beings. But could that be the challenge??

    So what’s the plan?? A safe place to audit, I suppose.

  121. Naomi, your comment is full of great facts and details. Thanks for all this info.

    Just Me

  122. OTDT~I’m very happy you made it out in one piece!
    See, nobody can read meters anymore in David Miscavige’s church.
    My suggestion to anyone still getting that wacko crap is smile big, think happy and get the fuck out of there ASAP!
    Like you did!

  123. Scott Campbell

    Yeah, It’s a great site. I’ve used it several times now for referring fence-sitters to what LRH says.

    If they are afraid to look. You can usually get them to agree to “look at what LRH says about it” on that site.

    Good Post, Devon and Ian.

  124. LDW~That is awesome news! I aspire to something similar. It’s coming for sure.

  125. Scott Campbell

    You’re right Sam, I do it at the merest hint of distress. –Scott

  126. Idle Org~When I blew in 1999, that was the same “shore story” used on our public too.

  127. Joe, at some point, would you perhaps consider giving your opinion concerning the accuracy of the “Basics” books? From what I’ve read here, many readers of this blog question how on-source (or not) these book compilations are. Did you see enough, or participate enough, in their compilation to be able to say with certainty that they are closer to source than the earlier book issues? For example: a couple of comments to prior posts have mentioned how Problems of Work and New Slant on Life bear little or no resemblance to the originals.

    I bought the Basics a couple of years ago. However, I find myself very reluctant to read these books, because I wonder how much is LRH and how much is DM. I’m NOT interested in reading “DM’s version” of LRH. If DM did alter these books, I’d prefer to dig my “old” LRH books out of storage, stick with them, and offload these new books to Ebay.

    Forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the impression you believe the Basics are true to LRH, maybe even truer than the earlier issues. And, you were there at the creation, so to speak. Just thinking, a little more clarification from someone who was involved in their compilation might be helpful.


  128. Naomi – this was very, very informative. Thank you for sharing.

    Mike, I’ve had numerous conversations with people (in, out, all around) and I concur that your survey results are spot-on. Amongst non-Scientologist, I found that their biggest upset with Scientology is family related – never hearing from their relatives or outright disconnection.

    Love, Amy

  129. Great survey! Did you all see the latest Scientology News magazine? Again PAGES and PAGES of empty buildings and furniture. The new, beautiful “Ideal Orgs”” – all MEST – not one person in sight, oh, sorry, except DM – ONLY DM. the Chairman of Bldgs and his buildings. There was an LRH article in the back – one photo. A complete degrade.

    I showed the magazine to some non-Scientologists and asked them for their impressions of Scientology based on the magazine. . Sort of an informal survey “They must like buildings a LOT”. “If this is suppose to be about making people better – WHERE are the people?” “What is this fixation on buildings?” “WHO is that guy- why is he the ONLY person highlighted in the magazine?” “What a waste of money – that is expensive paper!” “They are obviosuly spending a lot of money on stuff, why?” “Looks more like a museum exhibit or movie theatre lobby.”Uniformly, all thought that they were pretty extravagant. No one had a favorable impression. And no one saw it as a RELIGION.

    “The public knows us by our MEST.” Need I say more?

  130. Naomi,

    Wonderful post, thanks.

    Interresting. The WIS tours were started by me as LRH PPRO and as the stat of the LRH PPRO is NBSTI I pushed the booksales as THE most important thing. Sad to see how everything has gone down the tubes…

    Got it on the new orgs. I had forgotten those 4 — each of them done by the locals. There was also Kaohsiung — same story (though that one had been promoted as part of an IAS Medal Winner as being a huge mission taking over the country so it had to become an org). Int Management had no involvement in them at all. Should probably say its no new orgs in the last decade (though maybe Athens squeaks in? BTW Athens becoming an org was a flap. Guillaume had told them they could become an org if they did certain things. Miscavige found out and GL got all sorts of shit for it because he was a DB with “low standards” and would let anyone become an org. Last time anyone in management even whispered any sort of encouragement for opening a new org, unless it was Dear Leader at one of his glitzfests announcing Harlem or South Central or Battle Creek…)


  131. you thetans so totally knock my socks off, Les.
    this is what it is really all about… moving yourselves and others up the bridge, standardly, and continuing to flourish and prosper in spite of any and all odds.
    much thanks from me to Mr. Rinder here, and all of the other soldiers, past and present, (myself included.. 🙂 ) who have each, in their own way, maintained their willingness to fight back, and their own Code of Honor.
    the road gets smoother and less bumpy all the time.

  132. Olska,

    The most recent information from ASHO that they send around to their “field” contains the list of “recent” completions. Two SHSBC level comps (no Class 6es), 3 Academy level completions, 2 staff statuses and 15 basic courses. So, this is the grand total, INCLUDING staff. Back in the day, ASHO used to produce full BC Completions every week and the list of BC level completions was lengthy. The sad thing — they are proud of it.

  133. Jimbo — She approves ALL IAS expenses. She oversees the IAS with an iron fist. It is the single most important thing to be protected in the Scientology structure (as it is the biggest cash cow and the biggest source of unencumbered money). She gets paid a LOT of money by the IAS. But more important she has specific orders from Dear Leader that she approves no IAS grant without his approval — thus he has a perfect “cutout”. He can say he does not directly authorize their expenses — Monique does it for him! And of course, she can never be forced to testify about this sort of “attorney-client” privileged communication. Dear Leader’s ornate sandcastle is very carefully constructed — only problem is that he forgot that the tdes of truth will wash it all away… Mike

  134. Sinar — I recall Dear Leader’s survey well. Those that said they liked to go to Von’s were on a blacklist for a LONG time. Meantime, while he mocked those who wanted to shop once a week at a Supermarket as being “Non SO, other determined”, he was eating at Spago or shopping on Old Bond St in London. Ah, the hypocrisy.

  135. TeeHee

    Tee hee…

  136. This article blows charge.
    It takes the whole mushy crim reg scene and lays it out.

  137. See, whaditellyou — this is all you need to know:

    New Clears: ZERO
    So much for an “OT” civilization for the future…

    New Auditors: ZERO
    So much for expansion…

  138. Joan was a great friend of mine. She was a very determined, tenacious person. After she returned back from doing OT 8 in approx 2004, she wasn’t the same. It was as if she was a beaten down dog. She said she would never, ever do the levels again even if they came out with some new and improved version. I think she recognized that she was overrun or had some very squirrel auditing. The saddest thing is she died with a very big ARC break with LRH. She thought LRH had lead her down a path with the tech that caused her to die. She thought that his tech was bad and why would he do this to her. If she only knew that LRH tech is correct, it is the 20+ years of DM squirrel tech that killer her!

  139. Quicksilver,

    Could you send me the packs too ?

    Felicitas !

    Do you need a good twin ?
    we could team up or start a shsbc course room in Europe !

  140. Devon and Ian — Thanks for your response. I very much agree that the Friends of LRH site is invaluable as a repository of alterations of LRH. I looked up their reference to What Your Fees Buy — OEC Vol 2 p 106. But, alas, it seems this particular reference no longer appears in current editions of the OEC. Guess it was “old tech.”

  141. Very Funny !

    in 1979 0r 1980 we had 50 000 clears already !

  142. IO — Thanks. This is exactly the sort of specific information about the Idle Orgs that should be made known. Maybe you can get your friend to dig up some stats — as well as going to the HGC and seeing how many auditors are actually auditing and how many pc’s there are on the scheduling board. 5 students in the Academy — what an absolute disaster! If my memory serves me right, a SH Size org is supposed to have 200 students in the Academy. Even splitting it for Day and Fdn — (so two orgs total one SH Size) it would still be 100. And they promoted that they had 170 staff!! They must be getting paid nothing — an org cannot survive or be viable without a flourishing Academy. Now, VS — there ARE Independent Scientology groups with more students than that!!

    How sad this is. But how inevitable — No Div 6. Nobody allowed to study the Academy because they have to do the Basics (and now redo them along with the ACCs). Nobody knows what an FN is. And the vultures circle relentlessly and tear away at anyone unfortunate enough to walk in the front door.

  143. this is not really Jesse. This is an osa bot trying to point you to a FB page that is disgusting. I just tried the search on FB

  144. Sam — you invariably get right to the heart of the matter. Laser Saber Sam. Of course, the vulture culture is only a byproduct of no standard tech. The vulture culture can ONLY exist in the absence of a delivery/help culture which is what Scientology is supposed to be about. Love you Sam.

  145. Dark And Light Wizard

    I thank you for your post. They were most trying and difficult times at Castle Vlad I ultimately concur.
    However Wizard as unearthed a Who and a missing earlier sequence at the Castle that as until most recent times been “unknown” and unrevealed,throwing the Castle into it’s Darkest terror. AND prior to the original Countess’s propulsion from the high castle parapet. There WAS ANOTHER at the castle!!..And certainly it was not Bathor-y. Truth at Castle “V” and BEYOND to be disclosed soon from chronicles of the Wizard.

    Darkest Wizard

  146. I am glad that you clarified this. I have had a few conversations with her trying to get IAS grants. (on conference calls with ABLE and Monique).

    I was also told that all IAS grants requests are passed through a hand full of trustees around the world that are secretive that approve or deny grants. I kept asking why secretive and who are these guys? No answer and I was told there never will be an answer. Terry McMahon use to run the grant lines for the IAS from the ship. Very nice irish fellow, but certainly controlled. I think eventually they pulled him off the grant lines and he solely became the Freedom Medal winner handler.

  147. Freespirit — “Need I say more?” No.

    In truth, the problem is not the buildngs themselves. If the result of buying these buildings was flourishing and prospering orgs, nobody would complain. But its a bait and switch — pretend that in order to have a flourishing org you must have a new building. Call the program a sexy sounding, on Sourcy kind of thing like “Ideal Orgs” because it sounds vaguely familiar as an LRH reference to a lot of people but they dont know what it says as it actually talks about a good Academy and HGC etc etc. Then convince everyone that massve expansion is happening because these “Ideal Orgs” (buildings) are being opened every few months (just enough for the next Glitzfest(tm) Event). Fly in SO members and steal the trainees from other orgs to make it look like there are staff, and then move on to the next one. (They cannot put people in the photos because half the “staff” that are there leave within a month).

    The really sad thing is that a big part of the con is convincing everyone that their local org is the “Only One” not doing well. (Local SPs? PTSes? CI? Out Ethics?). Few people travel to more than one Class V org so they dont get to see the lie — with few exceptions they are ALL failing.


  148. To anybody lurking: DEMAND YOUR MONEY BACK

  149. Virgil Samms

    Chairman Of Buildings. I love it!!

    ML Tom

  150. IO — Seattle missing Senior CS is either done (as you surmise) or has been sent to fill the hole in another “Ideal Org” (Nashville maybe) or is on a post at the FSO (supervising Basics students). Some recent out org trainees from the FSO told me that they would be rounded up and press-ganged to go to new “Ideal Orgs” in order to fill their tech hierarchy if the org had no tewch staff. If they refused to go (it was considered an honor to head off to support Dear Leader’s wonderful program) they would be assigned to Sup Basics until they got a certain number of graduates and replaced themselves.

  151. Cheers Mike. I’m getting the picture, sort of like Dorian Gray’s.

  152. I thought this statement from an email I received today from Portland Org applies to what is written above so I thought I would share it, the rest of the email was just pictures, and then at the end of the email there was another announcement for ANOTHER event this Saturday night:

    Pasadena’s Ideal Org Grand Opening Event
    The video presentation of Pasadena’s Grand Opening Event brought a swarm of Portlanders to the Sherlock Building once again Saturday night. Beach-front food set the mood as everyone grabbed a seat to watch the parade of dignitaries who took to the stage. In few words, these people made clear demonstration of the effect the Scientology technology has when it reaches out into the community and brings order to chaos. The video ended in cheers as everyone witnessed one of the latest West US Ideal Orgs join the ranks of those who’ve said, “Done Sir. Opened and ready to save lives.”
    When the presentation was over, it was time for Portlanders to catch a few waves of their own. Chris Flamm and Clarke Balcolm were the first to successfully catch a ride on the board. They steered a big one toward freedom and in turn brought wave after wave of other donations to shore. The pace was fast and furious, and even when fundraiser Jeremy Arezzini tried to bring the evening to a close, there was no stopping Portland’s mighty surf on this night. The breakers were “unsolicited donations that would not stop”, and they kept pounding the board, one after another until everyone present felt the win of an unstoppable purpose in creating an Ideal Org. Totally Cool, Dude !!

  153. Tom,
    Yes, I suspect that’s the case as this person post’s on OSA sites under the same Very Seedy moniker.

  154. Chuck,
    Yes it IS possible to sue RTC for failing their duties. Here’s the tricky part; who defines their duties? The court will not delve into any aspect of religious duties. They WILL and CAN investigate corporate duties and various other things.

    In other words, let’s take DM’s butchering the LRH defintion of an FN. This is covered in an article on Scn Cult recently put up. He took a section from one HCOB and interpolated it in LRH’s definition of an FN and came up with a perversion of the LRH definition. Can’t really cover that in a court case since it is out if its jurisdiction and involves it in questions of religious significance.

    On the other hand, the current corporate structure is a sham. It’s a falsehood and DM rules across any and all corporate boundaries. That’s ripe for the ‘suein’. The court will go into that thoroughly, and has complete jurisdiction to do so.

    The ‘internal’ stuff of corrupting Scientology beyond recognition shows up in empty orgs and dissatisfied beings. It shows up in those beings, you, me and all of us, raising up here and there and saying loudly and clearly NO, YOU MOTHER FU#@ER, THAT IS NOT GOING TO CONTINUE ON OUR WATCH.

    The legal aspect, well, just between you and me and the guys reading this, including Dave (and VS), that is being ‘pursued’ as Dave (and VS) sits and gawks and squawks at today’s postings.

  155. Jesse Prince’s Facebook page:!/profile.php?id=100000125333302&ref=ts

    Michael A. Hobson

  156. And Mike, despite being on the ‘list’ I went to In N Out every Sat night, stopped off and got some Raman Noodles, even some for Marcus Swanson since he liked them, cold, and then I’d get a video from Blockbuster to watch on the machine I had in my room.

    I did that all the way up to the day he declared me an SP. I think it may be on the Comm Ev Warren McShane did later, listed somehow or other among a ‘suppressive act’ 🙂

  157. I don’t know why I’ve take so long to do it, but I just got off the phone with the I.J.C. office and told them to take me off their list, no I would not be doing my A to E, and no I was not coming back under any circumstances.

    The poor girl had no come-back. When she asked why, I explained to her,”the Church is off Source. The ethics book is an alter-is of the HCO PL’s it is based on. Ideal Orgs have no foundation in policy, that going St. Hill size was policy. That I left over 15 years ago because of out-ethics in local and International Management, and for the I.J.C. to offer to lessen my freeloader debt from $255,000. U.S., to $20,000… and this would include a full set of new basic books and lectures!… the whole thing was unethical and I would have no part of it. She had nothing left to say.

    So. That’s that!

    Hello. My name is John, and I’m an independent Scientologist. Now, to do up a proper Doubt formula and tell everyone else.

  158. Apparently (and Boyd H has more data on this) DM also took out the policy Org Programming as well. That’s the one that decries ‘fund raising BBQs’.

  159. I always knew you were a total criminal. Now I have proof positive! 🙂

  160. John — good for you. I am curious. Did they send you something in writing about reducing your “freeloader” bill? Why did they say they were doing this?

  161. Wissards,
    Yep, as a collective, yous fellas are as crytically significant as well, say your fellow Illuminati. I think you may have become adverse effect of your own cause – the first error of wissardry I might add.

    Lay off the newt, the bob-tail horse fly, and plllleeeeese, hold that wand right side to!!!

  162. Nothing in writing. I was first sent the single DVD of the book release. that was followed up with a 6 DVD case of two congresses, the book release and something else, never watched them. After this, I had my two regular IJC terminals call me and put “the” IJC on the phone, and she told me about everything. This was followed up with one of the first girls reducing my debt FIRST to $50k, then to $20k in order to help me get the debt paid quickly, and get on course through the IJC.

    I get the impression that IJC has been reduced to BSO for the purpose of getting anyone and everyone back on lines to create more fodder for the vulture regging going on these days. HELL! That was one of the reasons I left in the first place! When the ED sits in the Reg’s office and bangs away trying to reg anyone and everyone for anything…??? *spit*

  163. Hello John,
    I’m surprised you had ANY comm cycle with a person in the IJC’s office.

    Aside from that, welcome dude, you are among friends.

  164. Pascal Dorion

    Great post! Yes tech is out in CoS due largely to a gone Qual and insane Div 1. With that in mind it’s impossible to sustain CoS using “fees” and hence IAS and desperate crap must be dreamt up by the classless dwarf. A leader is little more than a magnet and DM has not attracted any talent to CoS and has repelled any talent there were. His regime is doomed, his end nearer than we think. We are the future. DM is nothing.

  165. Ghost Wizards

    Dark and Light Wizard,

    Yes, “V”s are certainly coming home!

    Ghost Wizards

  166. John, congratulations and well done. Welcome!

  167. Virgil Samms

    Scott – Love the Wally, Cmdr Wally that is.

    Ah, Judy looks good as well. Has not aged in 20 years.

    ML Tom

  168. Mike, loved your last paragraph it is so true. Then the 3p invests start, they have to go on a witch hunt for the WHO. It is so nuts!

  169. Not all funds are bad. There’s also the BCF – Birthday Contribution Fund which was started by LRH, I believe on one of his birthdays. It is for the sole purpose of helping individual SO members, by providing loans to them in times of personal emergencies and paid back as they can, with no interest charged. This was run by the Int Finance office.

  170. Thanks Mike that’s pretty devilish of dear leader! Had wondered why she was kept on the payroll at pretty big bucks for all these years, after what I thought was her grand finale in ’93.

  171. Thank you Mike for this post and your survey.
    You are absolutely correct. When the right Reality is found then it is easier to communicate and help the person to see the truth and leave the C of M.

    This was a valuable tool for me as a Power FSM to get people on the Bridge and now that I am out, it has been a VERY success tool to get people out of the C of M.
    David Miscavige has under estimated the power of the correct application of LRH Tech.
    Thank you Mike, Marty and many great freedom fighters. I love you all.

  172. Mike,

    I’ll see what I can dig up in the way of stats and I’ll share them here when I succeed.

    Another quick item: I drove by our downtown testing center (Life Improvement Center), and saw three masked Anons protesting next to the staffers trying to hand out promo to all the tourists who will be leaving town soon.

    I should’ve brought them some milk and cookies for their efforts.


  173. The same thing happened to me just a week or so ago. I met guy on Freewinds 2003 and we semi stayed in touch, hadn’t heard from for YEARS, then suddenly he calls asking for $9000 to re-do a sec check he already did 7 years ago: “Right now I am stuck with this cycle in the sense, that one intensive was not enough, and need to find pre-financing for the second intensive. If you can see a way to lend USD 9,000 in whole or a part of it for one year for an exchange in abundance, or help to find a way for me to do that, I would appreciate your help”.

    Of course I could help, and did, with this reply:

    Dear XXXXX,

    Hello to you!

    It was lovely to hear from you out of the blue recently.

    I only just got back a few days ago from a long trip away; from Hungary we went across Slovakia to the Polish border for some rafting, then after a few days in Siofok to Slovenia, stayed in Austria and Germany before going home again.

    Regarding the main point of your mail, I do like to help where I can, and there is something that caught my eye in your mail. “Before I can get started with these Bridge steps and go on Div4 services here, I need to redo a Sec Check that I did 7 years ago in XXXXXXX Org”. When I saw this it reminded me very much of a cycle that started for me at Flag in 2001. It went like this:

    I go to Flag for 50 hours case-cracking Sept 2001. I am told I need to re-do a sec-check I did many years ago while in the Sea Org at St Hill. I protested but was convinced by the auditor that the C/S insisted – I had no choice. After a lot of protest (and very little coming up on the sec check) all the hours were used up. 50 hours at Flag rates of “I am not auditing you” sec checks. Not for my benefit as the PC, but for Flag’s benefit.

    I reconciled this many ways, but ultimately it was simply gross out-tech and a blatant violation of Senior Policy – see OEC Vol 0 (“We always deliver what we promise”). , and I realised that trying to rationalise it any other way was simply going into agreement with out-tech. I had many meetings with the Flag Rep in the UK over many years to try and get some sort of resolution on it, or even just an apology, but nothing was forthcoming. Together with a number of other outpoints I noticed, such as the collapse of training auditors since GAT came out; the emphasis on no-exchange “donations” such as Ideal Orgs, IAS etc, I started to look into things a little more deeply.

    This may not seem like help, Kolos, but believe me, this is the best, most honest help I could give you: The Church of Scientology has gone off the rails under the (mis) management of David Miscavige. I could tell you many things to show you this is true, but you would probably tell me, if you are being a good onlines obedient public (that is what Miscaviges Church loves, blind obedience), that it is all lies and “entheta”. So I will simply say this:

    1) If it doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t. I bet you a £ to a penny you no more need to re-do a 7-year old sec-check than fly to the moon. (Just as the OT VIIs who are constantly ordered back to Flag every six months are being made to pay for off-policy sec-checks)

    2) If you see or even sense an outpoint, LOOK. Don’t be afraid to look. THAT is what is expected of a scientologist, after all. The ability to confront. When I did this for myself, my life turned around, I blew more charge than in any previous auditing, and I felt FREE for the first time in eons. It was only fear that was holding me back before; the fear of “losing my Bridge” or “forsaking my eternity”. This I realised is simply spiritual blackmail. No one can take your eternity away from you except YOU!

    I have distanced myself from the Church until such time as it again becomes what LRH envisioned it to be; a place where people are free to express themselves and do do services at a realistic affordable cost, free from harassment and intimidation and definitely free from spritual blackmail.

    I will say no more at this time, save to urge you to consider seriously what I write here; and if you need any more info or help, I will be happy to do that for you.

    When I realised the extent of the betrayal of good, well meaning public such as yourself Kolos, I was sickened. It is hard to confront, but the rewards for looking and confronting the truth are beyond description – and will save you a shed load of money!

    Best wishes,


  174. Mike,
    That’s right! Those survey results were announced I think during those toasting “briefings” on Sat night, right before “source night” or tape play.
    I remember going “shopping” with DM in London – Harrods, Hermes, Ralph Lauren, Holland & Holland and other stores. Those prices were outrageous due to the currency exchange and he bought some kind of a fossilized dinosaur egg over $1.5K. Something which contributes to bettering the planet! I think you and I shared the plane trip back to Orlando after that shopping trip.
    I’m more like Jim – doughnuts, chocolates and teas at Sainsbury’s.

  175. Why is that so ?
    A non scientologist ?
    What is the explanation for it ?
    Whom is really controling that women ?

  176. VS, when you look in the mirror…what do you see?

    “The first step of handling anything is gaining an ability to face it. ..We are looking here at the basic anatomy of all problems. Problems start with an inability to confront anything. ..It is a truism that one never solves anything by running away from it.” — LRH, MORE CONFRONTING, Ability #54, 1957

  177. It just keeps getting better (actually worse). Part of the reason its hard to get the minions of the C of M to wake up is the “unbelieveability” of the truth. Be that as it may, I’ve distilled all the data and concepts I’ve been reading about into one simple concept that explains it all: So, here it is……….Wait for it…….

    Corn on the COB

  178. Dear Jesse,
    I am touched that you remembered my beloved cockatiel “Gully”.
    Wow Jesse, we go back a long ways together. Not to mention you were in Happy Valley and I was on INT base decks all at the same time.
    Here’s more on Gully for those who are curious and what I ended up doing because of Gully.

    Jesse, please email me
    I am following you on Facebook.

  179. Tara ~~

    I threw out some figures, because all money sitting around makes interest.
    Of course I cannot document $82,192 a day in INTEREST from the $1 billion in Reserves. I merely presented an idea. Perhaps the interest is more, perhaps less, who knows….

    This we all do know.

    1) DM has carte blanche (complete freedom and authority to act) on the $$$$$$ of DM’s cult.

    2) There is an obscene amount of money on hand but the Vulture Culture of the Vampire Empire obsesses on sucking out more $$$$ from Scientology parishioners relentlessly even if it re-selling you books you already had that DM had redone, re-selling you your CCRD and other rundowns which you must do over and over again, sec checks every 6 months for those at home auditing, redoing your Bridge after OT VIII as it only JUST got discovered that you were not clear !
    As another poster used to say..

    Will that be Visa ? Master Card ? or American Express ?

  180. Mike, thanks for the initiative, this is a very important issue.

    I am however a bit surprised of the result of the survey, For me, and at least 10 people I know personally, the issue that started our “investigation” and the following doubt condition was the alleged violence of David Miscavige, i.e. the St Petersburg Time videos.

    What do you think of the idea to tabulate the result as follows:
    1, public vs staff
    2, time, i.e when the person decided to investigate, find out the true facts, read the blogs and so forth

    It would be reasonable to believe that there are big differences between a SO veteran who have seen DMs mismanagement from the inside, and public like myself that have only seen and to some degree bought the BS that he spits out at his fancy events. In other words to find the buttons that can impinge on the public and staff members today, in the present situation.

  181. Theo Sismanides

    David LaCroix,

    Isn’t it amazing? We can have a Web Org guys! With some Web Tech Wizzards! David, you are one of them!

    It’s not just willingness, it’s also hattingness and timeness that are missing.

    I am going to post my comment further down about Mike’s survey, always from my Admin Hat viewpoint.

    But it is amazing when the functions start being done what CAN happen. And it will happen.

    So, David, that web thing function you have it man! Don’t think that everybody else knows what you know on that area.

    Just pointing it out because I got so keyed out about Mike’s survey guys.

  182. >and if someone wants proof of the orders of magnitude, see the IAS 25th anniversary Impact Mag listing ONLY those who attained new Patron statuses just for the event…

    Somewhat off-topic (apologies) but if anyone has got this edition of Impact to hand, I’d be interested in your thoughts. The audience photo on the contents page (if I recall)… I’ve binned the mag since, but I remember thinking this image looked a little odd (particularly audience members towards the back of the shot). Was this photoshopped? Can anyone tell? Ever since the so-called “goof” (yeah right!) in 1999 (see I’ve always been somewhat wary of CoS audience pics…!

  183. The Auditor magazine, December 1980 issue, reported there were “over 27,000 clears.”


    Just Me

  184. You natter about Ideal Orgs and how bad it all is over there

    Aside from the Generalizations, obviously any standard Data Eval indicating Off-policy Church Activities would naturally be labelled “Natter” by CO$ Bots.

    And instead of complying with RTC/DM Tech Alterations, anyone practicing Standard Tech beyond the Long Arm of the Church would automatically be labelled a “Squirrel”; Since no Definition exists that makes any Reference to any Sphere/Authority where the Tech is practiced, why don’t you do yourself a favour and look up your MUs.

    But, why is it that when you had your chance and were over the FSO way back in the early 1980s, you ended up in a heap of trouble for destructive actions and were sent to the RPF?

    Let you in on a little secret. The only Source of Trouble is being in the Vicinity of RTC/DM.
    While you are at it, look up PTS too.

    (And don’t give me the lame, crap, cop-out excuse that LRH was given false data about you.)

    The Difference between the “Fact” & “Excuse” can also be cleared in a good-sized Dictionary. Watch them Cinnamon studies too, eh? … lol

    I know that you hate Idea Orgs, but you hated …

    Hormone de Femme.

    I guess you haven’t changed much have you?

    In front of Mirror, Method 6. “Do I have an ARC Break?” … lol

    So, if the squirrels want to follow you, so be it and good luck.

    DM Bot Squirrels arriving to the Freezone daily for actual LRH Tech.

  185. Naomi,
    Thanks for the personal story, I like hearing things from the horses mouth, so to speak. Can you tell me what SOR means?

  186. Theo Sismanides

    Sam, you are soooo right on this! We are delivering FREE SPEECH and FREEDOM of EXPRESSION !

    Enough with auditing and a muzzle onto my mouth. I DON’T need auditing, I need ETHICS and FREEDOM to say things to people and guide them right.

    Enough with your pseudo-delivery, imprisoning people’s minds.


    Sorry, Sam, I became a bit sudden, haha.
    Thanks for the right indication.

    WE are delivering!

  187. Thought Provoking

    Your comment about Joan having an ARC break with LRH because she didn’t know that DM was the one squirreling the tech is a perfect example of why a person should become independent publicly. Too many people have been the victims of DM’s out tech. People who should be getting more able and self determined are coming back beaten, sick and dead. How many more people have to die before one speaks out against the destructive technology that is being disseminated in the name of LRH via the church? How long until one gets the courage, integrity and confront to put a stop to the abuse? Over a thirty year period DM’s covert ops to destroy the tech have become completely overt. He is evil walking in plain sight and he will continue to destroy lives until he is stopped. I sometimes wonder how people can sleep at night knowing that someone they care about may be receiving this black tech. Arghhhh!

  188. Thought Provoking

    Still reading through the comments on this post. Wow! So much information and so many great links from posters. I’ve gone to almost every one of them and taken a few detours of my own. Boy, am I getting educated and had I known what I know now about the IAS formation, I’d have never agreed to it.

    This post shows the IAS is still the hot button! Thanks for putting it out there for us to confront and discuss.

  189. Theo Sismanides


    Now that you mentioned Athens, I have one question for you. When you were in OSA, back around 2001-2002 did you hear or had reports about me doing some TV shows about Scientology back in 2001-2 and getting quite some TA from there?

    That was just before Athens became an Org. And by the way, I have a feeling that just after my blow from the SO and my wive’s and another translators international mgmt wanted to give something big to the public so that things get going again.

  190. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    When the Church of Scientology leadership has been secretly altering and deleting the works from the “by L. Ron Hubbard” books that existed when he was alive, that is a hidden data line.

    Instead of making only REPRINTS of them, they are changing them without Scientologists’ knowledge … let alone carefully documenting those changes and explaining the reasoning for doing so for all to openly see.

    I don’t trust NON “by L. Ron Hubbard” books. IMO, I’d stick with the green books published when LRH was well aware of them. (It would be awfully gutsy to alter his books when he was alive.)

    Here’s a small example of the new 2007 “Basic Book” (L. Ron Hubbard Library version) of “The Fundamentals of Thought” versus the original “by L. Ron Hubbard” version.

    These brackets indicate where LRH has been altered or deleted [ ].
    CAPITALIZATION indicates where the words were altered or deleted.

    Chapter Eleven – Scientology Processing

    1956 ORIGINAL (Reprint 1975):

    “Scientology is applied in many ways to many fields. One particular and specialized method of application of Scientology is its use on individuals and groups of people in THE ERADICATION OF PHYSICAL PROBLEMS deriving from mental states and the improvement of their abilities and intelligence.”


    “Scientology is applied in many ways to many fields. One particular and specialized method of application of Scientology is its use on individuals and groups of people in [ADDRESSING THE PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS] deriving from mental states and the improvement of their abilities and intelligence.”

    1956 ORIGINAL (Reprint 1975):

    Fourth sentence:

    “ERADICATE those psychosomatic PROBLEMS”


    Changed to “[OVERCOME] those psychosomatic [ILLS]”

    1956 ORIGINAL (Reprint 1975):

    Fifth sentence:

    “It is the only SCIENCE OR study known”


    “It is the only [deleted} study known”

    1956 ORIGINAL (Reprint 1975):

    2nd paragraph;

    “Scientology processing amongst other things can improve the intelligence quotient of an individual, his ability or desire to communicate, his social attitudes, his capability and domestic harmony, HIS FERTILITY, his artistic creativity, his reaction time and HEALTH.”


    “Scientology processing amongst other things can improve the intelligence quotient of an individual, his ability or desire to communicate, his social attitudes, his capability and domestic harmony, [DELETED], his artistic creativity, his reaction time and [WELL-BEING].”

    The above is just a tiny example.

    Does one want PURE LRH, or does one want a deluted, deleted, altered, and a “cleansed” version of his written works? Personally, I feel much safer sticking with the former.

    I can cite many, many more examples of alterations and deletions like the above, in more chapters of this book, and many other (formerly) LRH works. As a KSW Scientologist, the idea of following the 2007 “Basic books” is repulsive to me. It’s not LRH.

    The world has been infected by thousands of NON LRH books, yet most people have been and are made to believe these altered books ARE straight LRH.

    I believe correctly TRAINED Scientologists can spot whether something is LRH or not. I encourage anybody to read the original “by L. Ron Hubbard” green books, and compare them to the “new and improved” altered 2007 (squirrelled) version.

    Surprise, surprise!

    Pretty evil stuff. We have a lot of sorting out and cleaning up to do just in the area of LRH’s written works alone.

    How can anybody possibly trust and believe David Miscavage now? … thinking that LRH’s works has stayed and will stay PURE under DM’s suppressive domination?

  191. Sherman — are you writing everything now? Even individual Ideal Org newsletters?

    Not getting any better at this stuff, are you.

    Just Me

  192. Thought Provoking

    Your handle was so much better than the one I was thinking of. 😉

  193. Awesome survey Mike. Spot on summary!

  194. There was an email that had been sent a few months ago that was giving options for reducing Freeloaders debt. I think more harm was done from the email. I had a friend who received the email and was so pissed because she had paid 100% of her original freeloaders bill to get back onlines and was still getting the run around about buying all the basics and congresses in order to be cleared for services as ex SO. She wanted to ask IJC was she going to get a refund of what she had paid since the new norm was 10-20% of your freeloaders bills or at least credit on account for additional services. her request fell on deaf ears on no response to this day.

  195. Thought Provoking

    I find it odd that so many Scientologists, including myself had bought DM’s whole Ideal Org concept as being something LRH referenced. The actual LRH reference is so beautifully filled with theta and purpose and could never have been confused with DM’s building campaigns in any way. I think it is out here in the independent field that Scientologists can find LRHs ideal orgs. One by one they will come into being. One only has to avail themselves to the truth to find them.

  196. John,
    Don’t pay ANY ‘freeloader bill’. Invoke Violation of Staff Covenant, and LRH approved issue (captured on tape, his approval) a PL DM cancelled.

    I have to send you the full write up on ‘freeloader bills’ that I put together. I’ll remind myself and get it to you.

  197. LDW,

    (Hey, where’s my scan of that issue?)

  198. Thank you Mike, this is another great post and obviously is hitting the nail on the head for many people. I left the SO in 1986 before some of this insanity and off-source activity had gone full-blown, but heavy and invalidative crush regging was becoming common at the org I worked at, not to mention regging for auditing and training when someone was barely on the comm course and had no idea what he was doing there yet. It often created BPC in virtually raw public. It wasn’t fun at all, and I believe there is an old saying “if it isn’t fun, it isn’t Scientology”. We all gladly worked 80 hour weeks when it was fun! I worked at CCLA, as it was called then. I recently talked to an old friend who had been my junior and a public reg back in the ’80s. He said things were so much better now, thanks to the Golden Age of Tech??? This really stunned me, based on the overwhelming evidence that DM has had books and hcobs altered or invented. He had gone from regging public on to the Bridge to regging celebs to stay at the Manor Hotel, or whatever it is called now.He has routed out of the SO, and he too was having virtually all of SO debt forgiven, I don’t know why.
    Thank you again,

  199. Theo Sismanides

    Mike, great post and great survey!

    I don’t want to sound “smart” but I am going to take advantage of this action of yours and point out exactly that this is what I mean by talking about an Org Board.

    I don’t want to be tiring, if doing something about the planet and TR3ing things is interpreted as “tiring”. Real Tiring is to have all this BS happening with SCN and DM on its helm.

    And there we are, good, competent and on purpose people and there come VSes (there are always going to be there) to tell us WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR SCN, GUYS?


    So, just because this Universe responds to Force and Intelligence (50%-50%) that was a demonstration of high Intelligence on our part, Mike. Doing this survey.

    But just intelligence guys, won’t cut it. We ARE missing the FORCE thing. Of which Miscavige knows very well and though he is NOT intelligent (he maybe smart and cunning), he controls things.

    So, that Force thing is the Org Board and what I mean by that, is NOT Orders and hierarchies etc. etc. but just organizing ourselves and, for example, promote this survey on 100 or 1000 sites or comm lines via the Internet.

    This I call Force and putting some muscle to it. All of us. Or many of us who can easily do it.

    Apart from my Admin lectures, I want to really thank you Mike because this is really key and a button, what you have found. And it is an on Source action and this is what I am saying when saying all this admin things. That so many resources don’t get waisted.

    I will send it to local Independents here that I know and will post it on my FB and Twitter accounts.

    I think we should all do that.

  200. Exactly Mike,

    If the Class V orgs that exist today were re-evaluated for ‘Org’ status, most would not even qualify as an org, let alone a mission.

    I hazard a guess that there would be many DCGs and a couple of Gung Ho groups to boot

  201. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Spot on, Worsel.

    That “church” is wrongfully LABELED “Scientology”, when it’s clearly the Church of Reverse Scientology designed to oppress and abuse, not free.

    The CoRS is THE actual, main squirrel group now PRETENDING to practice Scientology.

    With obnosis, it’s easy to spot who’s who. Just compare the wonderful Theta here compared to there. We’re not MEST. Just look at where the THETA is. I found it HERE.

  202. Dear Mike,
    I just wanted to say that I have much respect for you, and when I saw that you had left the church, it confirmed my own observations (outpoints that I was noticing) for years. In fact, one of the last events I went to (I stopped going because they were not live, like in the 70’s, and they got boring!) I turned to my husband and said, “Mike Rinder doesn’t look right, he has lost alot of weight” and it appeared that you were pale. I was use to seeing you at events, so I figurered you must have been sick or went on some kind of unhealthy diet. I guess you were sick from being “under the influence” of
    DM! My Org, SFO, had an SP ED for a long time, who finally got busted after being promoted up lines…but better late than never. In this case, I can attest that it was one of the few true declares. Everyone around him, especially his new wife, looked pale and downtone. I fought tooth and nail with him as he had a lot of interest in my div…div 6. He also fought with my husband who got hit (literally) for trying to put in an “A” priority telex from LRH. I saw a massive exodus of staff leave (including us) and I saw how he interpreted policy and how he was so covert in his communications. I also audited his exgirlfriends! He was slimey on the 2D while prentending such ethics. I’m sure you have much more R on all that type of behavior, but the SP indicators are so visible for anyone who can see. I wasn’t even trained on SP tech at that time , but I could sure point it out. Just like now; what is true, is true for those who look.
    I am glad that you are safe, alive, and willing to fight back. I am also relieved that you are dealing with time, place, form and event in your communications. Truth will prevail, and the best way to show the Scientology world the truth is to promote the actual stats and the actual scene.
    I would like to see all the crimes of DM and company be unleashed in a court of law, but with all the financial resources and slime laywers at the Churches disposal, I don’t think that is the way to go. You, I am sure, have a better insight on that one. As LRH stated, the idea is to crush the enemies by hitting their pocket book and bankrupting them, not by winning the cases necessarily (of course he meant real SP enemies). So, the Church will simply want to tie up the “enemy” in court. Who has the bucks for that? So, publishing stats, stories, etc. seems like the best way to shed the light. I have been reading everything I can on the web for the last year. Unfortunatley, there is quite a mixed bag of “data”, some of which is “joker degrader” on LRH and against the philosophy of Scientology. These people are not on my team. Scientology and LRH are far from perfect, but the correctly applied Scientology is the best thing that has hit this universe for a time! I do think that a united admin scale for those of us who want to take down the SP, is in order. I am creating one, because there are alot of mixed intentions in the independent field, and it reminds me of the sixties: so many people protesting for and against one thing or another,the messages became convoluted and a lot of confusion resulted.
    Those people who just want to say that Scientology is “bad” (meaning the whole kit and kabuttle) and that the tech “doesn’t work” and that “LRH is a con artist”, have the right to their opinions based on their experiences. However, their communications have no solutions and serve only to enturbulate . Not an uptone purpose. I hope that anyone who seriously wants to shut down the supression and right the wrongs does not hob nob with people who just want to create entheta. For instance, I do not see the point of Anonomous shutting down the computers on PAC for a day. According to my son, they were successful. So how does that align with anything; it seems childish and pointless and created a small effect which was easily corrected.
    In closing, I would like to say Thank You for your courage and that whatever things you did while being pts to an sp, are outweighed by the good that you have done, and that which you are doing to bring down the correct enemy of Scientology. I do want to help forward this goal in a sane but timely manner as possible. I would like to know if you have created a program for this purpose? Also, do you know what actually happened to Diana Hubbard?
    With ARC,

  203. In the 80s and 90s I had the opportunity to visit many orgs in the USA, often on a recurring basis. I observed that generally, what was “wrong” in one org was very likely going wrong in OTHER orgs (for example, orgs not having HEAT during the winter). Prove one or two “Ideal Orgs” as empty and failing, and you have proved it for ALL.

  204. Mike
    “the vulture culture is only a byproduct of no standard tech”
    Wow – Your post brought forth my own cognition and then you expanded on it to raise my duplication of what I had seen even more.
    Thanks! Love you too!
    Great ITSA! – Now that’s what I call Scientology 😉

  205. Worsel,

    You are correct and that is what I meant to impart. I have been up late in recent days as a currency trader and my mental functions are not at 100% which is reflecting in my posts.

    By all means, I have re-connected with LRH… yes indeed. In fact, I will attest to the fact that simply disconnecting produced case gain. Huge case gain. Thank you for your spot on commentary.


  206. LDW,

    What an AWESOME post! Get that, David Miscavige?

    Oh, I forgot — you don’t care about THOSE kinds of stats. Just the $ kind.

    Are you sleeping badly?

    Just Me

  207. Jetero
    “Many of you dedicated your lives, only to be betrayed”
    Would you make so little of what was done? I was a part of the Sea Organization. I do not regret a moment of the time spent forging bonds and friendships that will last an eternity regardless of the MINOR stop that DM poses in our forward game. Our lives are not over yet and our ‘ideological organization’ grows stronger in it’s new OT form. Far from a failed group we grow ever stronger. WE COME BACK regardless of any ‘ruthless opponent’. To call DM ‘formidable’ is a mistake. He is an SP who’s (only) power to restimulate grows weaker daily as we heal his futile attempts to restimulate this group into submission.

  208. I used to complain about the difficulty of communicating with IJC. I didn’t have a phone number though. I wouldn’t complain if you posted it here and I would write it down even if I never use it.

  209. Hi John
    Welcome to FREEDOM! It gladdens my heart to see you arrive 🙂

  210. Lo,

    I’ll need an email.

    On the way Felicitas

  211. SOR = Sea Org Reserves

  212. Theo
    My response:
    Ethics, Tech Admin (in that order).
    I can’t get into this too much at length or I won’t sleep tonight but we have an SP running amok amongst a lot of PTS people. We can deliver Scientology services where we have the resources of course, but until the job of getting ethics in fully is done there will be adverse reactions in delivering the tech. There is much to be done on ETHICS and JUSTICE lines.
    I could cite a half dozen references on this but I’m sure you can look them up for yourself.
    I agree we need to get the show on the road but I for one will not go effect of subtle barbs to introvert me into the idea that we are not delivering. This is not true. It is an enemy line forwarded by OSA.

  213. Pingback: Top Posts —

  214. PS
    If DM was as smart as you say he is he would be protecting LRH tech and ensuring it is delivered 100% standardly. DM is not smart. He is actually incredibly stupid to be stirring up the hornets’ nest that is about to reverberate back upon him.

  215. LWD,

    Wow, what admirable accomplishments.

    It makes me smile so comtentedly.


  216. Karry Campbell

    Hi Mike,

    Long time no see.

    In June 2010 I received an invoice from a woman at the ILO that I knew from my time in the S/O. She and others from OSA and other orgs had been calling me or Scott off and on for years about our freeloader debts, etc. The offers seemed to always get better and better until ultimately I had an offer to cancel my freeloader debt if only I would start reading one of the new basic books (my still on-lines parents had bought them as a gift for us).

    I agreed and actually received an invoice stating that my freeloader debt to any Sea Org organization was canceled. However, it is a very generic invoice and not on Church stationary.

    After it came, the phone calls started coming about “when are you going to start your basics, we need you to donate money for ideal org packs (whatever that is) etc.”

    The whole purpose of this exercise was always geared to getting me back on lines as a public. Any comm along these lines to Scott was to rejoin the S.O. or other things regarding his cycle. I was always suspicious as to why him S.O. and me public. Seems like a divide and conquer type thing.

    Not gonna happen. They tried it on the ship when Scott was sent to PAC
    RPF in the midst of his psychotic break. I quickly shot down the idea of divorcing him or even remaining on the ship with finality.

    Ultimately, I politely declined to do anything even as small as to start reading a basic book at the church’s bidding.

    Now we’re so done with the church we don’t even care about these stupid “bills” one whit. To me they’re just a psychological blackmail tool that the C of S uses to try to control former staffers.

    Don’t fall for it guy’s! It’s a trap. It’s all a trap.

    And we have a bigger trap to get out of.

    L, Karry

  217. Yes. Extortion is extortion. The money regged for IAS, building funds, library donations and any other donation not covered in policy by LRH needs to be payed back.

  218. one of those who see

    This is fantastic!!!!! Love this kind of news. Thanks for posting!

  219. one of those who see

    Sorry to be graphic. But, I think I will go throw up. Really, hard to believe.

  220. I used to love my Church

    I went to Buffalo Org. Couldn’t find my way in. The front door was locked and enmesty. I went to leave but noticed a side door. It opened….OK, found a way in. I sensed fear in the air.

    I got a tour. Maybe 10 staff, 2 public total between the acad/purif/hcg, the whole thing.

    This was about a year ago. Just low toned……but nice MEST!

    Toronto, I saw about 10 people in the academy, some were staff. Seemed OK, not too much entheta in the air…..

    NY Org, Fdn, paranoid people!!!! They’d barely let me in for a tour without a DNA test. After I met 4 people that knew me I was able to move about freely. It was busy with staff and only only saw 1 or 2 public. Staff look WORN OUT!!

    Not much data but it shows a picture.

    All the best.

  221. Ha, ha, ha, chortle, snort, glurg, ha, ha!

    Corn on the COB.

  222. one of those who see

    Wow. Well said!


  224. theystolemychurch


  225. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Mike and Tom, Wasn’t it a right of anyone onlines or staff at a church to be able to go to HCO and view all of the posted stats (such as the ones you’ve mentioned)? If you are doing a Doubt Formula on CofRS, (like you really need to do one – NOT), to see if they are worth supporting/stay joined at the wallet/sucking dm’s umm… thong (sheeesh!), wouldn’t getting the stats of the group/org be part of that?

    Gary (Ditto a million thanks for being here and helping!)

  226. Lucy, I’m sorry to hear about Joan but IMHO only her body died & she is still very aware. Hopefully she stayed long enough in this area of the Universe once free from the shackles of her body to perceive what DM as done. She might even be able to perceive your comm. It’s worth a try…


  227. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    It sounds like DerMini-man has set up a real “UnRon” corporate-shell scam!!! But it does seem to me that if ANY of the financial “approvers” of the IAS know about ANY misappropriations of the donations that where advertised for specific reasons and they willingly continued with the DM authorized misuse of the monies than someone (DAVID MISCAVIAGE and CREW) needs to go to JAIL for (IMHO) LIFE!!!

    Attorney – Client Privilege is a fine thing for the sake of justice BUT it is NOT OK and in fact illegal if the attorney knowingly contributes or allows the continued overts that DM and Crew are doing.


  228. Wow, you’re right Mike, what a disaster!

    The outpoints are so flagrant it’s hard to believe that the staff & public can believe that my husband & I are the big “SPs” that are preventing the Org from flourishing & prospering. Somehow the DSA has this fantasy going on that Tony is doing everything he can to get people out of Scientology. Tony doesn’t have to do a thing. DM’s strategy & the vulture culture is doing the job!

    BTW, I have noticed that both the Org & the Life Improvement Center have security guards at the door!!!! Quite a way to create a safe environment for staff & public!


  229. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    She’s my guardian angel!! Actually she’s all of ours!

    Thank you Karen for having our backs!!! We surely have yours!

    Gary 🙂

  230. Thanks, Mike, for the very useful information.

    Your efforts have provoked the release of more amazing and startling data in this thread than I thought possible.

    If I were author John Le Carre, I’d have found enough raw material in this and other threads, for at least 3 gut-wrenching novels, filled with enough treachery, betrayal, heroism and diabolical scheming to rattle even the
    most cynical reader. But, in second thought, this shit is just too unbelievable. And why do I hear this faint but unmistakably clear voice whispering “You ain’t heard the half of it, pal.”

  231. Great, informative posts everybody. I think we have ample evidence that the “church” should lose it’s tax exemption. The IAS was supposed to be a separate membership body. The fact that church goers are continually being extorted to “increase their status” in the IAS or else face disciplinary action inside the “church” truly violates the agreement that was made with the IRS. Anyone know a good lawyer? All the sleazy ones work for the C of M.

    BTW, I walked into a McDonald’s restaurant in LA the other day, and who did I see? None other than IAS FreeDumb Medal Winners Jeff Pomerantz and Michael Roberts (making money regging for the IAS since the acting gig is not paying well these days), along with IAS Field Disseminator Howard D. Becker. They were sitting with their latest victim, er uh I mean “prospect”. Apparently this guy’s mom had just died and stood to inherit a large sum of monery; in other words, he was in a gang-bang reg cycle. I could tell from the look on this guy’s face that he wanted to be anywhere else except at the table with these three vultures. All of a sudden, due to the intense stress he was under, he keels over from a heart attack and lands face first in his french fries and ketchup. Instead of performing CPR or calling 911, Jeff Pomerantz says “Quick, see if he can still sign that check”. Michael Roberts then pipes up and says, “Don’t worry, I know a person who’s really good at forging signatures.” About that time a large drool comes out of Howard D. Becker’s mouth, touches the table top, and then goes back up into this mouth like a spider, after which he says “I wonder if he’s gonna finish those fries?”

    The VultureCulture™ is alive and well folks.

  232. Thanks Karry. Yes, too long. Very interesting. Wonder what all the people that DID pay their freeloader bills think about the new way of dealing with them. I can imagine they feel a bit like they were taken to the cleaners…. Mike

  233. The term “Ideal Org” constitutes a false report.
    All LRH-statements concerning false reports apply.

  234. Tintin — the media certainly played a role in prompting those who are out now. The overwhelming response about the vulture culture was kn response to the question about what people have heard current Scientologists being upset about. So, perhaps a higher percentage of ex-staff saw the SP Tiimes or CNN or whatever else. Mike

  235. Karen#1~I knew those weren’t exact. I just put that blurb together for my own and perhaps others’ understanding that everything was paid for by 1988 and that there’s hordes of money making interest yet IAS poor-mouths on and on.

  236. I had a similar experience a few years back. One of my best friends was at Flag, and I hadn’t heard from her for years (I had moved away from the area). All of a sudden, I get a call – how nice, I thought. Well, it was for a loan because she was out of hours at Flag. I politely said no. It pissed me off, because there was no other comm before that.

    I have a family member who is ill and has very bad eyesight, to the point where the person can no longer effectively read. Still, the person was regged for the books – to give to someone else! Regging a fixed-income, sick old person. The sad fact is that this is so common, it almost doesn’t shock me any more.

    What gets me about DM and his minions is that he took a bad activity that was an annoyance at churches and blew it to (in DM’s own overblown language) MASSIVE PROPORTIONS. Anyone remember postulate checks from the ’70s? Okay. Crush regging is not a new phenomenon. But, it is now extremely bad, and all they have. At least if you were regged back in the day, you got a product.

  237. Yeah, and his smiles in the magazines these days are looking much less “I’m the cocky master of the universe” and much more “aw damn”. Poor little guy.

  238. Jean-François Genest

    Shelly Corrias could probably help us with the reprinting the ORIGINAL books by L. Ron Hubbard.

    Just chop off the books’ spine, re-create the shooting-boards or make digital images then reprint away.
    I could screen print the covers 🙂 LOL

    “Intention is cause” LRH

    [Additionally, I am sure that there are Independants out here who have the complete library of the early editions of all LRH books. They can be re-typeset, printed and sold at an affordable price to cover manufacturing costs and feed the printers (not beans & rice…]

  239. rory Medford


    The data from the surveys are very eye opening but not surprising at all.

    Thanks for sharing the data and getting the “TRUTH” out on the internet.

    You are sharing with anyone who is willing to look to uncover the scam…

    This site is making a HUGE difference and changes lives for the better.

    thanks a million or should I say a billion LOL-

    a billion dollars is a mere morsel compared to the effects you are creating

    keep up the good works guys and gals

    I look forward to this blog EVERYDAY its inviting and inspiring

  240. Trouble Shooter

    OT VIII, Excuse me but did I miss something? I’m pretty sure that I didn’t. But in the spirit of benefits of the doubt being granted – something to realize isn’t necessary to grant you due to your recent rude, disrespectful posts on the thread regarding Scott and insulting SO members in general – did you handle yourself with the others on this blog whom you owe explanation and apology??? If so I missed it and would be grateful to you for the summary of how that restoration of ARC was achieved…it’s just that your caustic attitude earlier is what inspired me to communicate on this blog for the first time. So please understand for me that this is important and so would like to complete the comm you started.

    Trouble Shooter

  241. Jean-François Genest

    Please add the NEW stat to be collected by CIC (Control Information Center) International:
    (Marie-Noël Pietch @ CMO Int)

    NEWOTVIIIOBJ: Number of OT 8s who re-completed the Objectives

  242. Tony DePhillips


    I had a similar thought myself. Like if you just had 4-5 guys who really gave a crap and weren’t so worried about stats and just wanted to help. Then get away from all the dev-t management was throwing at them, they could get some products and maybe make enough to live on. Simple really…yes I think it could be that simple. Once we get the suppression off the lines it will happen more and more and maybe then we can make some real progress on helping Earth.

  243. Tony DePhillips

    That was great Martin.
    I this Martin Paddfield? I hope you are doing ok if it is. I haven’t seen you post for awhile.

  244. Trouble Shooter

    A new CF project is going on in Tampa org. How many of these get done before it’s d-o-n-e by the way? Anyway a conversation recently with a staff member revealed BPC on the fact that there had only been 28 public on course in the org’s academy for the WHOLE WEEK while they’re trying to boom the production to move into the new building “COB gave to them”! This is the local line – “COB gave them their building”! Then again maybe he’s doing his liability formula and personally bought their new building with the interst and investments and did give it to them! He only wanted this exchange – quadruple your staff and fill it with actual new public instead of Flag’s OTC and their kids and do it in the next 3 months! …so in summary – 28 academy BIS and COB gave Tampa their building to expand into.

    Trouble Shooter

  245. Jean-François Genest

    Go Tom !

  246. Jean-François Genest

    Sorry to hear of Joan’s passing.
    Θ Get pregnant ladies, and help Joan Lonstein and our other friends return in a good home !

  247. Theo, I love the way how you TR-3 the Org Board.
    I just had a cognition about that. We all ARE using the Org Board heavily, already and an enormous production is occuring right now. However, it is not the Technical Production of Division 4. Large parts of the group have not arrived yet in Division 4; they are suppressed and in a PTS-Condition. To find and indicate the Suppressive is part of Ethics-Tech. And Ethics we find in Div One. We are moving right now through that part of the cycle.
    Suppression is a “harmful intention or action against which one cannot fight back.” Thus, when one can do something about it, it is less suppressive. (Lecture of 13 Dec 66, Scientology Definitions III). Many realize that “something can be done.” And after that realization they are less PTS. Soon there will follow the question, “What can be done?”, or “..should be done?”, or “…has to be done?”
    So there is unbelievable production in this Division of the Org Board. And, allowing no arbitraries to enter, the process will carry the “preclear” through to the EP on that specific process.
    Some have moved further and have arrived in Div 4; they train and audit. Others hold a Qual-type of position. Others disseminate. And so on.
    And to this member above, who tried to indicate that there would be no production I would advise: When you handled any critical or antagonic impulse, study the lecture “Org Board and Livingness” (6 April 1965) and have another look.

  248. Jean-François Genest

    Very well done LDW !
    That is awesome news! Keep up the great work!

  249. Trouble Shooter


    I have heard of this occurring and is a perfect example of how policy is being completely disregarded at Flag. Per HCO PL 30 December 1979R TECHNICAL TRAINING CORPS : “4. TTC members may not be used on mission or errands or tours, assigned other duties, or otherwise rippped off overtly or covertly for short or long periods of time. Any instance of this should be reported by telex to CS-5 or Emergency Officer flag if not handled at local level.” I don’t know if Snr CS FSO is even on post right now – he was battling a serious illness last I knew which was some months ago. I can’t imagine that he would have stood by and let this occur especially when another quote from that policy states “The Senior C/S is responsible as well for seeing that the TTC is built up and not ripped apart.” If he’s in a weakened condition however and not on post it would explain a little bit of the abuse of these TTCers. As a complete aside and not to derail this matter – it’s yet another example of an Solo NOTs OT, a highly trained OT, getting seriously, physically ill…WHY is this OK?!

  250. Jean-François Genest

    My favorite awareness level is Source

  251. Trouble Shooter

    “I now have staunch, “yeoman” Scientologists complaining bitterly to me about the book pulping pgm, DM in general, and Ideal Orgs. These are guys who have remained loyal no matter WHAT.”


    still waiting, patiently waiting

  252. You are welcome.
    I am glad you said it that way, so this differentiation could be discussed. Thank you.(^^)

  253. To get to the historical Vladimir Dracul one must first strip off the Bram Stoker Imigary.

  254. Trouble Shooter

    That’s beautifully written. Thank you for the inspiration.

  255. Trouble Shooter

    It’s 2:30a.m. and I’m ROFL!!!! tears side hurts jaws need a rest! and it starts all over again!

  256. Virgil Samms

    I’m asking for a refund for what I paid on my on my freeloader bill. That’s what.
    I’ll report anyone that tries to stop it to the State Labor Board.

    And while I’m at it, WHERE THE F*** IS SHELLY AND HEBER???

  257. Good point, Theo. I found a bad looking vulture and posted it, and it gets the message across.

  258. The link doesnt work for me, but is it the infamous pic from the 2000 New Years event in LA?
    If so, I was there and I would say it was 70-80% full. If there was photoshop used I assume it was to fill in an empty spot here and there. However it seems unimportant because there were in fact a lot of people there and it was a huge venue.

  259. Jean-François Genest

    Some word clearing for our friends:

    WIS? = What is Scientology?
    NBSRAW = New Books Sold to RAW publics (non-Dianeticists/non-Scientologists)
    NBSTI = New Books Sold To Individuals
    SOR = Sea Org Re$erves
    FSM = Field Staff Member (Public who gets commi$$ions (EXCHANGE) for bringing people to the org for SERVICE.

  260. Ha!
    I can beat that.
    Have you guys seen this?
    “A continuous campaign of fundraising events…” Yay! Put me on the confirms board.

  261. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Perhaps it’s not commonly known HOW BAD the squirrelling of “by L. Ron Hubbards” works are. Here’s just ONE other example (out of MANY I could post);

    MORE SQUIRRELLING BY the Church of Reverse Scientology in LRH’s book “Science of Survival”

    [ ] Brackets show where alteration is

    CAPITALIZATION shows the actual altered words in the 2007 squirrelled (the NON “by L. Ron Hubbard”) version of Science of Survival.

    The Goal of Dianetics

    1951 ORIGINAL (SIXTEENTH PRINTING (Reprint) … the “by L. Ron Hubbard” version):

    “And what of the practitioner who [has devoted years] to [the study of methods and theories which are suddenly shown to be obsolete and even harmful?]”



    Besides the radical rewrite, what’s with all this extra added text?

    WHO IS this “mystery writer” in the squirrelled version of Science of Survival?

    The mystery writer describes Dianetics as “MUCH LESS HARMFUL”?

    Is he/she serious?

    I didn’t even know Dianetics was harmful in the LEAST, unless it’s Black Dianetics. So perhaps the L. Ron Hubbard Library mystery writer is describing the latter, which they currently practice at CoRS in present time.

    Surely this must open some eyes in aghast, doesn’t it?

    I’m convinced if it was really known how bad the squirrelling of LRH’s written works are, that this information would IMPINGE like nothing else can because it’s so OUT-KSW.

  262. I believe that the concept of all saint hill size orgs then release ot 9 and 10 was made up by DM? I asked for the refrence and was told LRH advices that suggested it and was also told the altering of the tapes was allowed even though no refrences were suplied. I dont remember LRH even mentioning the ot 9 and 10 comming out.

    I wonder if DM would take the survey results and change whats going on, nah because that would mena he would care and that doesnt fit DM!

  263. Jean-François Genest

    Please compare David Miscavidge’s and Tom Cruise’s delusions of “Ideal Orgs” to L. Ron Hubbard’s vision and concept of the Ideal Org:

    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

    Issue II
    Data Series 40

    (First appeared as LRH ED 102 Int, 20 May 70, refering to evaluation)

    The ideal org would be an activity where people came to achieve freedom and where they had confidence they would attain it.

    It would have enough space in which to train, process and administrate without crowding.

    It would be located where the public could identify and find it.

    It would be busy looking, with staff in motion, not standing about.

    It would be clean and attractive enough not to repel its public.

    Its files and papers, baskets and lines would be in good order.

    The org board would be up-to-date and where the public could see who and what was where and which the staff would use for routing and action.

    A heavy outflow of letters and mailings would be pouring out.

    Answers would be pouring in.

    Auditors would be auditing in Div 4 HGC and Qual would be rather empty.

    Supervisors would be training students interestedly and 2-way comming all slows.

    The HCO Area Sec would have hats for everyone. And checked out on everyone.

    There would be a pool of people in training to take over new admin and tech posts.

    The staff would be well paid because they were productive.

    The Public Divisions would be buzzing with effective action and new people and furnishing a torrent of new names to CF.

    The pcs would be getting full Grades to ability attained for each, not eight minutes from 0 to IV, but more like thirty processes. And they would be leaving with high praises.

    The students would be graduating all on fire to audit.

    One could look at this ideal org and know that THIS was the place a new civilization was being established for this planet.

    The thousand or more actions that made it up would dovetail smoothly one with another.

    And the PR area control would be such that no one would dream of threatening it.

    Such and ideal org would be built by taking what one has and step by step building and smoothing; grooving in and handling each of its functions, with each of its divisions doing more and more of its full job better and better.

    The business is always there – the skill with which it is handled and the results on pcs and students is the single important line which makes it possible to build the rest.

    The ideal org is the image one builds toward. It is the product of the causative actions of many. Anything which is short of an ideal org is an outpoint that can be put right. The end product is not just an ideal org but a new civilization already on its way.


    Now, to those of you who are still IN the so called “Church” ←
    Is THIS what you OBSERVE and SEE in those “Churches of David Miscavology”?


  264. Hmm. Don’t remember SansPaulo (I think that was his name) ever pushing me on books. Just visits. Weird. Anyway, a lot of good things were also done — we were getting up to 20 FSS a day in some areas. When does that happen? But anyone who’s read Vol6 would have had to do it “against the tide” so to speak. And that inflow was gotten rid of later by the vulture culture.
    About Athens, it’s just hypocrisy of course on DM’s part as otherwise he’d return places like Clermont Ferrant or St Etienne to Mission status so they could get correctly managed per Org pgm Number One and not with 15 different 339R programs that give crew lists like “ED, BSO, MSO” end of crew list. Management has destroyed these “small failing orgs” through lack of evaluated handlings and enforcing stupid “all orgs” type orders as senior to policy.
    And to answer you (partly) Theo, your actions did make a lot of noise in the CLO but making Athens an org had to do with EU’s Gung-ho spirit which was still alive then, and getting 50 birthday game points so Walter was sure of winning because he’d do anything to not be recalled to Int, having seen how the place had become a living hell. Sounds like a bit of a shortcut but truly Purpose became very much colored with fear as DM’s terror regime reached down to CLO level.

  265. Ahh Theo!
    You got what I was trying to tell you.
    Good 😀
    Love the sudden 😀

  266. Tommy Davis said publicly that things are alot better in the SO since marty was removed and stats went up many times over as the number of groups missions and orgs grew to over 8000 now. Of course there is no address for all these places in the world that deliver scientology!

  267. Theo Sismanides

    Sam, thanks for the response. I consider you one of the wittiest people around the globe. For you have that knack there, Sam, the witch’s magic wand! You should know that! DM and OSA must be very afraid of you! Haha!

    So, many people also here have defended Scientology and have made it possible to stop enemy lines, one of which is that we don’t deliver. You said above, and I agreed that delivery now is in putting Ethics and raising people’s tone level which is after all the ONLY purpose of auditing.

    So, we do agree. My point has been and will be that we have more resources that we know of. We are so rich that we don’t even know it. In resources, in good people who want to do, want to contribute, want to do something about it.

    I was so happy and thrilled to see Mike do a Standard Survey, one which must have been done by the church to find out what the real problems of Scientologists are.

    So, he did it. We did it in some way as a team. Some helped him do it by answering it. This is an admin thing. Of course the purpose is Ethics.

    But where you have two people involved admin gets in.

    Admin has a very, very bad name because of the church. They hear Admin and think of orders, compliances and other such things which are not really what Admin is.

    A good administrator given a situation can collect ALL the resources and handle it.

    This is what I am talking about and not in a Recruiting, Do You Want To Sign a One Billion Year contract Fashion. No. It’s just what can you be doing now! What are you a specialist at? Oh you can forward messages on various channels on the web (FB, twitter etc.). How much do you want to do of that? Let’s do it. Here is a survey by Mike. Can you promote it?

    Ignazio just put some fire here in Europe going around delivering auditing. One year ago he had told me, he was doing something else. I told him come and audit us. After that he just delivered.

    So, I never said we are not delivering. As a matter of fact mine and many others contracts say put Ethics in on this planet and the universe, so I just don’t care about the rest. Honestly. But Ethics also has to do with no wasting not even one moment, one resource.

    As an example, see this Survey by Mike. It’s The thing. It’s nailing the button and the big item for all of Scientology. Crash Regging. So, it should be promoted to many. That takes some decision by some and then some action. Simple as that. Nothing complicated, but, hey, I never thought that no commitment to anything ever did any good.

    This is our chance now. I am not willing to waste it. For 10 years I was alone. Now we are all together in this. And I am going to work with this team. You are my teammates. The people I trust the most and I love the most because they do something about. I want to put attention units on this. Many.

    The only enemy line Sam is this: “chill out, be cool and be apathetic about it”. Or even “hey, don’t get hyped here, this ain’t the big game here”. Be Conservative that is. The hell with Conservatism, let’s get the show on the road. This IS the big game now.

  268. Theo Sismanides

    We know that IQ has nothing to do with the Ethics of a being. Hitler was smart, too. But he was used and he used people to make a world war and get millions killed.

    An SP as smart as he can be, caves in. DM didn’t cave in for so many years because people couldn’t believe what he was really doing. He didn’t make a war, he was covert in his operations and used the PR of: We are doing Scientology here, so we might kill a couple thousands as well. No problem. He was not a dictator, he portrayed himself as a savior.

    Now, he is confronted with Those Who See. Us! And it’s the first time in Scientology’s history that such a movement is forming up. Why? Because of the Admin Freedom that is given to us by one thing.

    And which is that?

    The Internet.

    We all have been there, all of us. But without the communications lines offered now by the Internet this group wouldn’t have been formed.

    You called it about a new OT form of a group. I agree. As a matter of fact we are like a Web. We are spread around the globe as a Web.

    Maybe that’s the new form. A Web Type of Organization, driving the SPs crazy. There is no just one center, though I must admit that Marty is playing a key role into this. However, more are willing to be the focal points and should and will. That’s also some tech, some hat to be passed around. Not one focal point but many, many, many.

    So, this is a new OT form as you called it. I totally agree. And it operates not on Effort but on Games and Postulates and Knowledge. And we all have a lot of those.

    We are the ONE biggest MENACE to DM and his MESTOLOGY ever in the history of Scientology. Because we KNOW how to KNOW.

  269. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    I had to add this …

    MORE SQUIRRELLING BY the Church of Reverse Scientology in LRH’s book “Science of Survival”

    [ ] Brackets show where alteration is

    CAPITALIZATION shows the actual altered words in the 2007 squirrelled (the NON “by L. Ron Hubbard”) version of Science of Survival.


    1951 ORIGINAL (SIXTEENTH PRINTING (Reprint) … the “by L. Ron Hubbard” version):

    “You can’t drive anybody mad with dianetic processing. Cases driven mad by dianetic processing do not exist. [SEE ADDED TEXT HERE FROM THE SQUIRREL VERSION.] Cases do exist where reversed techniques have been criminally use on persons.”


    “You can’t drive anybody mad with dianetic processing. Cases driven mad by dianetic processing do not exist. [YOU CAN MAKE PEOPLE SOMEWHAT UNHAPPY.] Cases do exist where reversed techniques have been criminally use on persons.”

    So now we’ve been “educated” from the squirrel version that Dianetics can make you “somewhat unhappy.”

    As you see, the L. Ron Hubbard Library “mystery writer” is at it again with added text (in CAPS). Does anybody honestly believe that the added text was a “correction” and the old man really wrote that part?

    Can you see how that added statement may startle people and may even turn them OFF to Dianetics? … or perhaps even scare them? Who wants to be made “somewhat unhappy” with self-improvement?

    I haven’t even gotten to Page 1 yet in this squirrel issue.

    Did I mention this squirrel version no longer dedicates this book to Diana Hubbard? (Ron’s daughter) The “by L. Ron Hubbard” version had a full page just saying “Dedicated to DIANA HUBBARD”

    There used to be another full page dedicated to and acknowledging “fifty-thousand years of thinking men”, along with naming names. DELETED. Now GONE.

    Also, the Publisher’s 23-Page Introduction is DELETED. GONE.

    To any church Scientologist reading this,

    Can you in good faith excuse these alterations of the original reprints of “by L. Ron Hubbard” writings by claiming this is “KSW” at work by the Church?

    Or could this be a HUGE OUTPOINT which needs confronting? Is it possible that altered LRH works are a clear indicator that something sinister is (has been) happening inside the CoS?

  270. What is the IJC phone number? If I am a lifetime member of IAS can they cut off publications and al comm to me without refunding or prorating my membership back? I think the straight donations for Ias is not refundable, but what about the lifetime membership? What if they kick you out cant you get a refund? Any Lrh on the Ias? It was formed when Lrh was alive!

  271. Jesse ~~
    What a lovely re-union. I am still smiling.
    You went through it ahead of a lot of us.
    It is quite a journey….
    The time track is the time track.

  272. Independent Scientologist

    John – well done!

  273. Independent Scientologist

    Jewel – please email me at independent_scientologist Thanks. I announced my independent status on Marty’s blog a few days ago.

  274. >Yes it IS possible to sue RTC for failing their duties. Here’s the tricky part; who defines their duties? The court will not delve into any aspect of religious duties.

    I’m totally in the dark about the legal wotsits, but what about in a country that doesn’t consider the CoS a “religious” entity? Could the promotion of their product as “standard tech” be open to claims of “false advertising”, for example?

  275. I didn’t pay any freeloader bill but I would suggest EVERYONE who did pay a Freeloader Bill (but does not fall into the actual definition of a “Freeloader” – which will be very close to if not 100% of the people) should request a refund of any money paid.

    Besides being the right and just thing to do – it would also put pressure onto the C of M to STOP issuing fraudulent freeloader bills. It would help you AND others that are on their way out of the C of M.

    CJC’s and IJC will then receive a LOT of refund requests which somehow have to be dealt with. It could well be that they never answer the refund request so put a time limit onto your request before you file a refund suit with the courts.

    I am sure there will be lots of lawyers who will do this for a moderate fee (you should see that any fee you have to pay is moderate and fair – otherwise find another lawyer). The lawyers could even co-operate and co-ordinate their actions – even using the internet platforms already established – possibly Steven Hall at could make yet another category for all those who wish to file refund suits (IMO his site is the best suited for this type of information).

    I wouldn’t be too concerned that you have paid the bill “out of your own agreement” – there is malpractice in this (see the article EXTORTION MONEY on Steve Hall’s site:

    ALSO: the Headley’s case would be flanked by other actions as well.

  276. dfb, yes! That’s the one.

    Sorry, the url didn’t come out right (the closing bracket got tacked onto the end of the link). Go to and follow the links therein.

    I remember being quite upset when this erupted. It was the first time I think I had observed my “church”, a group I wholeheartedly believed (at the time) to be “the most ethical group on the planet”, actively attempting to mislead. The PR response was denial, that it was simply a mistake, “a goof”, despite the intricate work that surely must have been involved. Hmmm…

  277. Jetero
    Fair ’nuff 🙂

  278. Holy cow! This can’t be. It must be the latest internet scam coming out of Nigeria, right? Or the emails you get from a friend’s hijacked account saying they are stranded in London (always London) and can you send them $2,000. Dialing for Sec Checks.

  279. The majority of Class V orgs have no produced one clear since 1996. Fact. You could count on one hand the number of Class V orgs in the US which are even allowed to deliver a CCRD.

  280. VS

    I don’t follow Mike. I don’t follow Marty. I follow LRH and would like to follow him much further up the line.

    Where exactly do you get straight up LRH? If you say, within the Church of Scientology, take another look. Just walk into a Church of Scientology anywhere and communicate. You will immediately find yourself unable to speak freely and say whats on your mind and to that degree you violate your integrity and you are once again “going along to get along”. It’s a trap.
    You can gamble with your eternity all you want. Not me pal. I am so over and done with that.

    Call me a squirrel if you like, I’ve been called worse.

  281. Order Of The Wizards

    Dark Wizard Prince thanks you for that Jetero

    Dark Wizard Prince

  282. Hi Tony and Trouble Shooter – thanks for the warm words. Yes, ’tis me, doing just dandy thanks, and winning across the dynamics. Just back from a LONG break away across Europe. Just about to start exercising my rights as an Honour Roll IAS member (well, since no one from IAS Admin has volunteered giving my donations back I still have all the rights, right?) . Stay tuned!

  283. Sam,

    A quote from PL Third Dynamic De-Aberration, 6 Dec 70, in your Management Series as Organization Series 18:
    “As the universe is full of beings and one lives with them whether he likes it or not, it would be to anyone’s interest to be able to have functioning groups.

    “The only way a group jams up and (a) becomes difficult to live in, and (b) impossible to fully separate from, is by random and counter-purposes.

    “If one thinks he can go off and be alone anywhere in this universe he is dreaming.

    “The first impulse of a hostile being is “to leave” a decent group. What a weird one.

    “The only reason he gets in jams is his inability to tolerate or handle others.

    “There’s no road out for such a being except through.

    “Thus all we can do to survive even on the first dynamic is to know how to handle and be part of the third or fourth dynamic and clean it up.”

  284. Worsel,
    It’s nice to have you on post. Very, very nice.

  285. Tom,
    I’m sending you the write-up I did, complete with case citations, on the subject of ‘freeloader’ bills. DM’s actions are in complete contradiction to LRH policy and he’s extorted millions of dollars in false ‘freeloader’ bills. He knows this which is why the feeble attempt to cover it up with ‘reduction’ and ‘special deals’.

    ‘Freeloader’ bill, as administered by DM is also a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment, the one on peonage. THAT may well be a subject the Court CAN and WILL look into being within its jurisdiction.

    The last Supreme Court case prior to the 501(c) approval is case precedent, and DM’s acknowledgement of the ‘doctrine of exchange’. Value your service to the org using LRH HCO PL, PRODUCTION AND ONE’S STANDARD OF LIVING, in which he states categorically it HAS a monetary value, and compare that to the ‘freeloader’ bill. The difference is important. Mine was upwards of between 5-10X of the $350,000 bill. In fact, according to LRH policy the 3D owed ME and was grossly out-exchange.

    The upshot, aside from being completely contrary to LRH and thus legit, CofS policy, ‘freeloader’ bill has been found by the court to be illegal. The peonage aspect is a new twist, and one that if pursued would likely end up slamming the door on the whole thing.

    In terms of the First Amendment and the court’s reticence to intrude into ‘doctrine’, well, ‘doctrine’ is OK, as long as it doesn’t cross up with ‘public policy’ and the laws of the land, such as the Thirteenth Amendment.

  286. Thought Provoking


    Thanks for the link on Gully. Seems his journey in life parallels some of those in the hole. His story really speaks of the power of theta in healing. Great info on birds. Some of it I knew intuitively but the first aide and feeding stuff was very helpful. You are like the underground railroad for birds, and a very well known one at that.

  287. Thought Provoking


    It would seem that if a person was doing an honest doubt formula, being very overt about it, requesting a look at the stats and then were refused or disuaded, then that in itself would be quite a discovery when trying to evaluate the group called the church since it was in Scientology that one learned the formula for handling doubt.

  288. Wayne, I remember the event where me and a couple other guys, including staff looked at each other in disbelief about the “naughty transcriptionist” story. Why would it take so many years for this to come up? @ 60 years for anyone, including LRH to notice these errors and omissions from a crazy transcriptionist and an SP editor?

    Maybe there was some truth to it, but as stated, the story didnt fly with me.

  289. Remember Safe Environment Fund? I still have my pin! Wonder if it would be worth anything on eBay 🙂

  290. Hello other Jim,
    There is zip, zero, not-a, nuttin, goose-egg, anything LRH on the IAS.

    You have just become aware of a large ‘string’. Pull on it and you’ll eventually end up with THE false, external influence that is the parasitic goo on the Cof S.

  291. Dark Wissard Princess,
    Does the word ‘drek’ mean anything to you?

  292. Tony, I had a funny dream last night. I was back on staff, but there was no longer any office space allocated to admin staff because the org was full of a bunch of circus stuff, similar to what the OT committees are doing for Ideal Org fundraisers. Costume parties, clowns, also all the weird public displays, video stations like in the Idel Orgs. There was a bunch of events going on simultaneously- IAS, IDeal Org, etc. It was like a circus but no actual production. The org had been effectively replaced with a bunch of off-purpose crap. I complained about not having a desk and the person (HCO?) said because the org was so busy, staff have to share an area. She pointed to it. It was a call in space with all the phones next to each other. I guess so everybody could do full time call in for events.
    I usually dont have dreams. It was sort of funny though. I;ve been doing a lot of heavy physical work last couple days. Maybe I need some vits.

  293. DW,
    I’d like to hear about this ‘who’. And prior to the original Countess you say?

    Well, that should be interesting. I expect when you start speaking with an R factor that actually communicates something factual, you’ll drop this ‘wissard’ symbolism and put up or… well you know what I mean.

  294. Trouble Shooter, I;m not really following all this, but I just want to add in a bit of data I have found to be true and apply myself since I deal in a lot of emails and written comm in my work.
    A lot of things are missing from a written communication, facial expressions, subtle facial hints at humor, emotion tone, voice tone etc. So sometimes unless you are a great writer you can write something that reads a bit different than what you intended.
    Not sure if there any of that going on here or not.

  295. Another big being has been saved from Corn on the COB last night. I had dinner with a person who had gotten a taste of the new level of technical delivery and service at Flag earlier this year and the end result of his trip was of course an overt product (his viewpoint at the end was “I do not want to be around these people anymore”). After my indoctrination we now have a new member reading this blog and seeking true freedom outside this rotting COB of corn.
    My true purpose and game this lifetime has been to get people into the Church of Scientology – now its to get them OUT! (In truth, my true purpose is to connect people to LRH sufficiently enough to jump start them on the path to their spiritual freedom).

  296. Thought Provoking


    Outstanding handling! Though you only knew him briefly your care of him was superior than that of the church.

  297. Jack, I’ve been to every event for @ 5-6 years and most of them before that about ten years. The last couple years I started noticing obvious lies in the events.
    For example, in the ACC’s event, there were false sound samples in the “before and after” part. There is no technology I am aware of that will “restore” frequency response that is not present in the source recording. There was one in particular that sort of sounded like it was recorded over the phone- weak and thin, no bass. They “fixed” by making it sound full and rich. like a good recording or LRH;s voice.
    I work with sound and I know what I heard. The “before” had a frequency filter applied to it and an computer effect that simulates an old recording, scratchy and pops etc. This is like photoshopping sound.

  298. Meant : “Like a good recording OF LRH’s voice”

  299. Thought Provoking

    That’s awesome, John! Can’t wait to read your doubt formula! 🙂

  300. That objectives for OT VIIIs thing is totally insane! I did at least 200 hours of objectives as part of the old HQS course when I first got into SCN. Fifty hours on Op Pro By Dup alone. And more objectives somewhere on the Grades. I did OT VIII twice. And a hundred hours of “repair” and sec checks after that. More objectives, huh? Look at that wall…Thank you. Walk over to that wall…Thank you.

  301. MajorWynn
    LOL. I’ve been that guy, except it was a Dennys and I had a heart attack in my pancakes.

    One time Howard came to my house late at night with an OT8. Apparently you can get off the hook if you join the possee and go hunt someone else.

    Dont get me started on this shit. I have the feeling I am not even aware how upset I am about all that. I cant confront it.

  302. Virgil Samms

    Thank you very much, Iulmc, This is excellent data on NY, BUF and TOR orgs.

    ML Tom

  303. Thought Provoking

    Thanks for posting this. The mission I started at in 1979 had almost all of these points in and it was a wonderful place to be in.

  304. Theo Sismanides

    Thanks JF, for putting there Source as to what Ideal Orgs really are. I’ll get a read on that.

  305. Theo Sismanides

    Jimbo, I can’t believe supposedly you owed the church 250,000 $!! That’s so absurd. You are much more worth it. They need to pay you 1,000,000 $ and still can’t have you, IMHO! Hahaha!

  306. Tony DePhillips

    Pretty fiesty there Trouble Shooter.. 🙂
    We are looking for thetans like you.
    Oh, OT VIII , It’s not that hard to handle it. Just be in comm, that’s all. Things that are not-ised tend to persist.

  307. Tony DePhillips

    Good to hear it Martin!!
    Minerva said that you were all alone in the UK and I started feeling sorry for you. Is it true that you are all alone?
    (I didn’t really feel sorry for you) I knew you were of tougher mettle.

  308. The photos of those portrayed activities are just so completely unreal and bizarre and off the mark. It doesn’t look anything like Scientology. Wouldn’t it seem to make sense to have photos of ACTUAL winning students and PCs and exuberant staff all BENEFITING from Standard Tech being applied in a nice org environment, instead of Japanese pirates and cowboys and golden glitter costumed Elmer Gantries? Was this Hollywood-type production suggested by Tom Cruise, I wonder?

  309. There are several tapes of talks between LRH and myself in late 1979 concerning this exact subject of Sea Org Freeloaders and how the longer one remained in the SO the debt became too large, making it impossible forEx Sea Org to get back on the bridge or even return to the SO, if they wised. We then agreed during these talks to change the policy for Sea Org members to align with Class IV org policy taking the debt back to 0 for each five years of service. I wrote up the issues on this which were all LRH approved. On the tapes I can be heard explaining in detail each of the issues I wrote, based off several recorded conversations over time on the subject of freedloader bills and staff pay. In these tapes LRH asks me questions about various points and has me make changes to certain points and in the final tape he verbally approves all my issues. For corporate purposes, LRH was not supposed to be involved in church decisions so these issues were put out in the name of the Board of Directors and he did not sign them as approved, but his verbal approval is on those tapes. DM has the transcripts of the tapes and even the original tapes but still ordered these issues cancelled.

  310. Jewel,
    What is the name of the SP ED at SFO? I knew a couple of them there myself.

  311. Theo Sismanides

    Worsel my friend,

    Thank you indeed. The ref is Org and Livingness.

    thank you for putting it the way you said it. Yes, Div 1, Ethics, right now.

    And surely you give me a hand here to continue if you permit me. It’s not just Div 1.

    The Org Board is the Bridge turned horizontally and its departments (awareness characteristics) coincide with the levels of the Bridege.

    So, what have we got, here?

    We have first Source and that’s Dept 21.

    Then we have Existence Dept 20. Before we arrive at Div 1, which you are mentioning, we have Div 7, right?

    And then we have Dept 19, in Div 7, conditions.

    And what is the Condition?

    There is always a Condition in life, so what is the Condition in Scn?

    DM has usurped power and he is playing Source, a pseudo Dept 21.

    So, we have the Existence of a pseudo SCN, which is actually the C of M.

    This is what is the Condition here.

    So, now, Div 1.

    Dept 1: Recognition. Scientologists recognize that this IS the condition. They become Independents.

    And then Dept 2. It’s awareness characteristic is Communication. LRH say s in Org Board and Livingness what does a good auditor do after he/she recognizes a condition? He communicates.

    So, this is where we are at NOW. Communication. And Marty has provided the communications board for all of us.

    And then you have Dept 3 , which is Perception and where actually Ethics is. Department 3.

    So, I TOTALLY agree with you. We are at this right now. Puttin Ethics IN, big time. And Marty and Mike have been instrumental on that.

    However… however, as you point out, the Org Board is… we ALL have an Org Board and you just don’t survive with one or two Divs.

    So, we get into the rest of the Divs and they form the Cycle of Action. Which is completed through Div 6 and then restarts from 7.

    I could say more but the best thing is for one to read LRH, Org Board and Livingness.

    All I want to say is that we don’t have to deal, all of us, with Ethics, we can deal, many of us, with the other Divs.

    Thank you for the duplication.

  312. Theo Sismanides

    Great Stefan, and guys, Understand this, we haven’t gotten to the rest of the Divisions and their Departments. We are just in Dept 7 and 1, Source, Existence, Conditions, Recognition, Communication and Perception. Imagine we start getting into Orientation which is Dept 4 (in Division 2), but we are getting there through Perception that we now have and it’s agreed upon. So we get into Orientation now and then it’s Understanding (Dept 5).

    I have been trying to understand the Org Board to its details for years now. I wish I could. I will keep it up. Thank you all.

  313. When I left in 1986, I never inquired as to my”freeloader” debt. my first 5 years in the SO I actually had some staff enhancement, did the Purif, attested to Clear, started KTL and did the OEC/FEBC at Flag in 1980. My last 5-6 years, not so much. Virtually no auditing, most study time spent in Qual doing cramming, or on post because of a stat issue. I came back from Flag and held multiple Div 6 posts from above while trying to keep other Div 6 staff from blowing. I was not the only one, and I know that I am responsible for my conditions – but the whole debt thing had no meaning to me and my circumstance, and in fact does appear to violate LRH policy.

  314. Jim,

    Whilst the IAS may have been formed in October 1984 ( whilst Ron Hubbard was still alive), that does not imply that he either approved of or even knew about it. Ron Hubbard’s communication lines had been completely under the control of David Miscavige and his then partner in crime Pat Broeker (Ron’s trusted assistant at Creston Ranch) since early 1981.

    Not one single Ron Hubbard authored or approved issue of any kind has ever even so much as mentioned the IAS.

    Michael A. Hobson

  315. Jean-François Genest

    Thank you for all this “proofreading”.
    You’re hired ! 🙂
    Yes, the planned, deceitful alterations are atrocious indeed !

    It is interesting that while in the Sea Org, one of my career goals, along with my good friend Isabelle from France, was to go work @ CST with the LRH Tech Preservation Project. Your comments have re-kindled that purpose for me.
    Thank you, JF

  316. Virgil Samms

    Mike, I just re-read your survey and had a cognition. There was an earlier beginning to all this.

    I was the CO ANZO in 1984. I had one hell of a time with NEPI pushing debiting, debiting and more debiting. They would actually tell regges and book outlets in orgs to debit training packages because “public weren’t going to use them anyhow.” They would actually hat regges and org staff on how to talk public out of their training packages; “You don’t have time to train, so listen to the tapes in your car or at home.” and so forth. NEPI was my biggest enternal influence and when I got into combat with them and tried to stop the wholesale debits I got a call from Marc Yager and DM and told to “knock it off” and was told that I was “CI to selling books.”

    When I got back to FCB I found this debiting mania was causing insolvency in orgs everywhere. But when I tried to knock off the debiting I found myself being berated by Norman or ASI or WDC Pubs, or, or. And I sat helpless watching orgs CGI dwindle to insolvency.

    “Suppose one sells books only to people who come into the org. Well, this is backwards. If you sell books to raw public, a certain percent will walk into the org. Another example-Pubs Orgs market to in-org public. If they do only this, their market shrinks-and they can do this in several ways-by omitting to publish basic books is one.”

    And this is what was happening. Following LRH said in that same issue:

    “But let’s look at this-here Dianetics and Scientology sit, a total monopoly on effective handling of the mind and spirit-no other even close rivals or competitors at all-and a group is selling to in-org public? Preposterous.”

    By the way, you will not find this issue in OEC Vols. It is designated as “Management Only” It was in the earlier OEC Vols.

    So this was the first assault on training. Regges were actually told by the pubs orgs to talk public out of training and turn their training packages into books and tapes.

    LRH said in 1962 in an advice to AOSHUK that someone reading this advice in the future will find that the SHSBC is knocked out (which it is right now) . He said this will be done by an SP because the target to knock out is specifically “Problems Processes” and if you knock out Grade One and Problems then PTSses willl not get detected and handled and SPs will then be able to run Scientology and get rid of it.

    So it appears the gauntlet was thrown down prior to 1982 with the advent of killing training. Once training is gone, so are problems handling and then people go more PTS and this is why there are so many ‘bots inthe Church right now. In addition they not allowed to run problems on Execs or Sea Org terminals so they go effect totally.

    ML Tom

  317. Mike,
    I’ve been thinking a lot about the results of your survey. The circumstances of each category unto itself were enough to drive a thetan to drink. But Scientologists, as you know, are a tough breed of character and I don’t believe that any one of the categories in full bloom were enough to drive someone out of the Church, even if it were justified.

    If the Tech was really good and standard and being applied with consistent, visible results and accolades, but there was crush, vulture regging going on, I could see how it could be tolerated, although disdained.

    If the environment was safe and welcoming and productive, with no crush regging, but there were points about the altered tech that needed to be addressed and corrected I think one would have the tendency to stick around in that nice environment and help fix it.

    If there was physical and emotional abuse taking place, but the environment was safe and the tech was cool, again I think one would not have such a desire to leave. (like it was in the 70’s)

    But…combine all three of these factors and you’ve got a catalytic slow-fuse explosion of black, solidifying entheta that is going to drive away anyone with an ounce of unhypnotized sense left.

    Regarding the Out-Tech category: When I did OT VIII, the first glaring out-tech I saw was the HCOB on OT VIII itself. It was not written by LRH, but overtly written and SIGNED by Ray Mittoff! An HCOB! As a long-time Scientologist I had always had the understanding that only LRH could write and issue an HCOB. That’s in writing, isn’t it? In basic policy. At least when they had those crappy BTBs you knew it was someone other than LRH who was writing and issuing it. I understand that there were prior HCOBs written by others, such as Mayo, etc. and issued under LRH’s name, but at least it could be called a mistake by someone who ultimately uncovered and remedied it. This OT VIII bulletin, blatantly issued in Red on White, as an HCOB (and very poorly written by the way) seemed somewhat then and glaringly now to be an overt flaunting of the willingness of the Church to violate sacrosanct and sacred protocol. Overt Squirrelling. I remember looking over at my twin and pointing it out and her shaking her head in disbelief. I called the Sup over and asked how could this be. It was justified as, “Well, they are from LRH notes”. !?!?@#! The Sup even said something like, “He was authorized to write it”. Again, by whom? And where is it in writing that LRH relinquished his hold on the issuance of HCOBs? Out-tech.

    Now, somewhere LRH wrote something like, “The only hope for man is to get him on and up through the upper OT Levels” (not an exact quote but very, very close, from memory). Why, if so vitally important, did OT VIII not get written up in proper HCOB form, qualed and verified every which way to the moon and back, etched in concrete with an atomic branding iron WHILE LRH WAS ALIVE and then issued to it’s public? This was prior to the issuance of the whacky GAT!

    Sorry for the length of this post, but I have another thought about one of the other categories of your survey, the beatings and abuse by Miscavige. What brought this thought to mind is the recent pop news item about the airline steward who quit his job in an insouciant, grandiose manner, popping the chute and the beers and a few choice words. I’m just thinking, there may be some guy at Int now who’s ready to quit and get out. Who’s been abused by DM. Who’s really good at martial arts. I’ve known guys who were so good at this and so tough they could kick the ass of fifteen tough guys at once. So…this guy at Int waits for the opportunity. DM abuses him and he kicks it into gear. Just wails the living shit out of him, busts him up really bad. I know it’s probably illegal to push such a thing, so I’m not saying to do it, I’m just posing a what-if for the purpose of entertainment. (this should cover me legally in case it actually happens) OK, so he kicks the living shit out of Miscavige, preferably just before an event. Breaks his teeth, blackens his eyes, scars up his face, breaks a few bones and just for good measure, rips his hair out. All out of self-defense, mind you. And knocks out any of his guards who try to interfere. It could be done in less than 10 seconds, before firearms get entered in. He might be arrested, but if he’s attacked first AND if he has witnesses who, upon seeing their Great Dear Leader FINALLY get his ass kicked into unconsciousness it just may cause a spark of theta and causativeness and a willingness to testify on his behalf to the police AND to Miscavige’s resulting Comm Ev that could come about from the juggernaut of theta generated by all those who witnessed him get his ass royally kicked. It would be using DMs own tech of Severe Reality Adjustment against him. Sort of like how Judo uses the force of the opponent to defeat him.

    OK, well at least one can dream can’t he?


  318. Jean-François Genest

    There are a few of us posting/reading on this blog who are “Returners”,
    second time around, same thetan, different body.
    LRH even wrote an HCOB about “us” which can be found in the Case Supervisor (C/S) Series. I don’t have it so I can’t quote from it.
    Sir Jim Logan might have it though. I would love to see it quoted/posted.

    We were THERE when LRH wrote & published those books, and IN THE AUDIENCE during the lectures. David Miscavidge can’t fool us, try as he may.

    “WE COME BACK !” and “We shall overcome !

  319. Scott Campbell

    “Hold the Form of the Org, Don’t Bring About Danger Conditions” – LRH

    Good Job Dave. Is that falling sensation you feel Scientology falling off of a cliff?

    Or is it just you personally.

    We’re still here and so is Scientology. It always will be.

  320. Virgil Samms

    Correction. I meant the advice to St Hill, not AOSH UK. Of course, I do not have the advice, so it is a paraphrase.

    The point is that training and problrems processing were knocked out in the early 80’s and now we find ourselves in this day and age with training completely obliterated. Now SPs and PTSes can RULE in the Church with impunity. This is the mechanics on how dickwad did it.


    LRH Predicted it and here it is, now it is up to us to do something about it.

    ML Tom

  321. @Theo, You cracked it. World Wide Web -> WWW

    “A Web Type of Organization, driving the SPs crazy.”

    Now of wich “Organization” does that remind you of ? 😉

  322. “there are no limits on what you can believe. But there are limits on how you can behave. It is called the law, and no one is above it.”

    Nick Xenophon

  323. one of those who see

    Just saw the mag from the New York Org-Day & Fnd. At first glance lots of completions. (not sure how often this mag is sent out). Then look closer. There are some basic courses completions, 3 HQS completions, The Basics completions-they list book by book, Dianetics Pro Course-5 completions, PDC completions, Some Congress and ACC completions.
    Student Hat -2
    Pro Trs -1
    Pro Upper Indoc TRs – 2
    Pro metering -2
    HDA – 6
    PTS/SP -1
    Academy Levels completions – 0!

    Life Repair- 12
    Method One -1
    Purif – 21
    Objectives – 12
    Scn Drug Rnd – 4
    Happiness Rnd – 4
    ARC Straight Wire – 3
    Grade 0 – 4
    Grade 1 -2
    Grade 2 – 1
    Grade 3 – 1
    (took an extra look at grades completions-just 4 different names in the 8 completions)
    NED DRD – 3
    NED Relief Rundown – 2
    NED Serfac Rundown – 1 (again took an extra look at Ned completions-just 3 different names in the 6 completions)

    State of Clear – 4 (I figure this is temporary. Just till they hit a higher org)
    New York is Ideal and Saint Hill Size, right??

  324. JFG,
    The only similarity I see between the LRH Ideal Org reference and the PT scene is the part that says that Qual would be rather empty….

  325. LO et al,
    Just looked at my Clear bracelet. In July 1979 I was supposedly Clear # 19,742.


  326. I also, was a friend of Joan and Tony’s. I well remember when Joan returned from doing OTVlll and became sick, for years trying to figure out what happened, never finding out and going into despair. I am truly saddened to hear she passed. Loveliest of people she was, Tony and her entire family, gracious and caring.

    I wonder now if she had asbestos poisoning and it went undiagnosed. Some of her symptoms would lead me to believe that was a possibility. She started having problems when she was on the ship if I recall correctly.

    Ah me. And so it goes. Another of my OTVlll friends dead.

  327. UnluckyPatron

    My opinion on the cash reserves of the C of S: LRH left in excess of a quarter billion dollars to the Church when he died in the ’86. If you just estimated what that is today due to compound interest, then you add the huge donors and all the profit from Scn materials and the intellectual properties of LRH….you’re looking at a cash reserves in excess of five billion dollars, quite easily.

  328. one of those who see


  329. Scott,
    That’s really funny & sarcastic – it’s one of those Policy Letters which Dear Leader violates every other minute with his micro-management mode of operation. A classic example was that he ordered me, his personal Chef at the time, to improve the food standard of the Freewinds for the 10th MV anniversary, bypassing all kinds of management (WDC, CMOs, Management orgs, etc. not to mention the Ship org and their terminals.) It did get done, through a lot of unusual solutions of an assistant fully onto doing it & NSO Chef hired.

  330. It was thanks to this that is was feasible for me to pay off what would have been an uncomfortable debt. This was called a “pilot” in PAC. Knowing is could be cancelled any moment, I borrowed the $2,500 “hatting fee” as my debt was zeroed out due to years of service. I was thrilled.

    I got back on the bridge and spent lots and lots of money doing OT IV thru OT VIII plus plenty of donations.

    It was a fair and equitable way for all involved.

    One more act of stupidity and short-view and just downright suppression.

    Thanks Janice and LRH


  331. I will be scocked for you.

  332. Whilst the IAS may have been formed in October 1984 ( whilst Ron Hubbard was still alive), that does not imply that he either approved of or even knew about it.

    Just some Data for Consideration. First of all, DM did not know LRH was going to pass away within a Year and a Half, unless one wants to suggest that DM had a Hand in it. Secondly, to incept a new Scientology Organization without LRH’s Knowledge, Consent or Authorization is cause for Post Removal/Declares. Thirdly, IAS events were widely promoted, and its highly unlikely he would not have Known about it.

    LRH is not stupid, and certainly not so clued out that he would not suspect DM and Pals possibly supplying him with erroneous Information.

    Further, I doubt LRH would allow anyone to completely sever his communication lines, incl. phone access to contact other “Unknowns to us” to verify Data given to him by DM/Broeker.

    I’m sure LRH did not know all about it, but not that DM would eventually use the IAS to subvert Scientology.

    Anyways, merely a couple cents …

    But then there may yet be other Data in Existence that would clearly point out that LRH was incapable to assess the Scene.

  333. Hear you loud and clear Theo 🙂

  334. You mean do a “Jesse Prince” on huim 😉

  335. Janis,
    These facts you relate are THE facts of the issue. I would think, especially considering the fact ‘freeloader’ bill has been found to be illegally applied in at least two separate court cases, that if one had a mind to and an ethical purpose, that this is a valid avenue to take DM to task -legally. That is, DM, personally. He’s the one that cancelled the LRH approved issue.

  336. ✩Thank you so much for posting this, Jean-Francois!!✩

    It’s Music to my soul.

    Even without having read this, it’s what I think of when I envision an ideal org! That is all there is to it.

    Mike Rinder’s survey nails the gross departures in the Impostor Cult. These fester as gaping wounds swathed in the hype buzz-word “Ideal Orgs”. The fund-raising (money for no exchange) line is rampant: “We need to HAVE before we can DO this.” See how inverted it is? “We need Ideal Orgs :’X so we can deliver.”

    No more excuses for nondelivery. I don’t care how shiny that styrofoam gilded gold column and marble is.

    I’m going to print this out. Thank you again, Mike and Jean Francois.
    Issue II
    Data Series 40

    (First appeared as LRH ED 102 Int, 20 May 70, refering to evaluation)

    The ideal org would be an activity where people came to achieve freedom and where they had confidence they would attain it.

    It would have enough space in which to train, process and administrate without crowding.

    It would be located where the public could identify and find it.

    It would be busy looking, with staff in motion, not standing about.

    It would be clean and attractive enough not to repel its public.

    Its files and papers, baskets and lines would be in good order.

    The org board would be up-to-date and where the public could see who and what was where and which the staff would use for routing and action.

    A heavy outflow of letters and mailings would be pouring out.

    Answers would be pouring in.

    Auditors would be auditing in Div 4 HGC and Qual would be rather empty.

    Supervisors would be training students interestedly and 2-way comming all slows.

    The HCO Area Sec would have hats for everyone. And checked out on everyone.

    There would be a pool of people in training to take over new admin and tech posts.

    The staff would be well paid because they were productive.

    The Public Divisions would be buzzing with effective action and new people and furnishing a torrent of new names to CF.

    The pcs would be getting full Grades to ability attained for each, not eight minutes from 0 to IV, but more like thirty processes. And they would be leaving with high praises.

    The students would be graduating all on fire to audit.

    One could look at this ideal org and know that THIS was the place a new civilization was being established for this planet.

    The thousand or more actions that made it up would dovetail smoothly one with another.

    And the PR area control would be such that no one would dream of threatening it.

    Such and ideal org would be built by taking what one has and step by step building and smoothing; grooving in and handling each of its functions, with each of its divisions doing more and more of its full job better and better.

    The business is always there – the skill with which it is handled and the results on pcs and students is the single important line which makes it possible to build the rest.

    The ideal org is the image one builds toward. It is the product of the causative actions of many. Anything which is short of an ideal org is an outpoint that can be put right. The end product is not just an ideal org but a new civilization already on its way.


  337. I know, that Minerva’s a giggle, aint she? Here’s a couple of other classic Minerva quotes “I agree with you that the Church is not perfect and that there have been abuses”. No kidding! Another: “the truth is that Marty is trying to feather his nest” (the same Marty who refused to take a dime from me for auditing me in London). Then there is “What if every dissatisfied customer’s demands were met? I am sure you can see that it is not something that is going to occur with the Church”. But I think this is my favourite: “No donations are ever regged that are out exchange”. Yup, she actually wrote all these things to me. So when she says she thinks “I am the only one in the UK” I allow myself a wry grin. If she only knew….

  338. What if Miscavige Gambled a substantial bit of money away.

  339. Keep on surveying

    It will reveal the actual condition and opinions of the current C of M

    People BELIEVE surveys

    Just do more surveys and post post post

    get the word out on the crush regging and insane conditions the church forces on their members

    Extra extra read all about it

  340. Thank you Janis.
    For new readers, Janis was an original “Watch messenger.”
    A “Watch Messenger” spent 8 hours a day ON WATCH with LRH on the Flagship Apollo.
    Not all messengers had that schedule or proximity to LRH.
    Every month, every week, every hour, we hear of how DM changes, alters, squirrels, interferes with LRH orders, policies and tech HCOBs.

    Several ex INT Base staff have reported that DM squawks into a microphone all day long…for hours giving orders, often cross ordering his previous orders. These DM monologues are faithfully typed up by DM typists in “office of COB” and put in binders “not to leave INT Base” binders. (Of course ~~ he would not want the world to see his squirrel cross-orders of LRH) Painfully and excruciatingly no one can submit a CSW on anything until they have Method 9 word cleared every word of DM’s orders on any given subject in the binders.

    There were also orders that staff who needed to do the Method 9s were not permitted sleep that night until they had word cleared DM’s babble

    This is the squirrel DM technology and policy. DM tries to call others squirrels, while he does nothing but Squirrel 24/7/365.

    These binders of DM orders over ride and supersede LRH policy !
    RTC supposedly there to guard LRH tech, but instead bow like toads to DM’s orders over LRH policy and orders.
    Quote from Marty ~
    DM cross ordered the majority of the Int base and for months had them working on hundreds of binders of drills on PROCEDURE. He then proceeded to jam the binders down the throats of every Scientologist internationally, bringing delivery of Scientology as it was once known to a grinding halt.

  341. Ha! and OSA likes to think we’re not ‘delivering’ 😉
    Well done Knowbody.

  342. Tony DePhillips

    Maybe that was a premonition. You have the sixth sense.

  343. Tony DePhillips

    I like where they say “fully CAPITALIZE on these events.” I am sure they mean that literally. Boy that phoney crap turns my stomach.
    Gee wilikers it’s FUN giving my lifes savings away!! Hip Hip hurray!! I am a total robot, isnt that nifty??

  344. Scott Campbell


    I’ve always used that policy and also “Orders, Illegal and Cross” to hold my position in space and to create a stable base from which to generate power.


  345. Virgil/Tom~The reg counted it as GI when they sold the training package (which usually also includes lots of materials) so it’s a totally false stat of selling books…there’s no selling of books involved. It’s totally a stat push and personal income maker since they would then get a commission based on the debit.
    I’d bought the SHSBC @ $8K and after I blew eventually started debiting books/tapes/meter, etc. (And like others, debits were done without my approval too.)
    That income for the SHSBC came years before the debits and of course there was no money put aside anywhere. The stats were all effed up…none of them real anymore.

  346. Tony DePhillips


  347. Karry Campbell

    I felt like we were taken to the cleaners by the C of S itself before even receiving a Freeloader bill, let alone paying it off!


  348. Thank you. I enjoyed it immensely.

  349. “When the Master governs, the people
    are hardly aware that he exists.
    Next best is a leader who is loved.
    Next, one who is feared.
    The worst is one who is despised.

    “If you don’t trust the people,
    you make them untrustworthy.

    “The Master doesn’t talk, he acts.
    When his work is done,
    the people say, ‘Amazing:
    we did it, all by ourselves!’ ”

    Lao Tzu

  350. one of those who see

    You said “I’ve been thinking a lot about the results of your survey. The circumstances of each category unto itself were enough to drive a thetan to drink. But Scientologists, as you know, are a tough breed of character and I don’t believe that any one of the categories in full bloom were enough to drive someone out of the Church, even if it were justified.”
    Then you went on with examples.
    I think you are right that it takes several outpoints. We do tend to hang in there.
    Last time I was on lines there were so many outpoints. It was wild. 1. couldn’t get in session 2. A feeling like no one was talking to me or took the time to find out what was really needed to get me winning 3. “Your’e the only body in the building that doesn’t have the whole basics & lectures.” This was about quotas ONLY because another family member had the lectures and they were in my house! There were other huge outpoints , but can’t go into them here as I need to stay under the radar. I eventually left and at some point went online and typed in “where’s ray Mithoff?? Didn’t turn in my old books either-still got ’em. Just couldn’t do it.

  351. Dear Mike et al,

    Thank you for this magnificent compilation of well considered thoughts and viewpoints. The “truth revealed” is here. My admiration could not be overstated.

    A word to the (D)emonic (M)idgit: Hasta La Vista Baby. Seems the dam broke. This movie scene says it for me.

  352. What about Leeches. Blind bloodsucking worms living in the swamp?

  353. Your humble servant


    That was a beautiful, caring, detailed, helpful reply, and an excellent model for how others might wish to reply under similar circumstances.

  354. Your humble servant

    Thank you Jean-Francoise. That was important!

  355. one of those who see

    Well done on your recovery of this being. If you are reading here just wanted to say hi!

  356. Quicksilver, I too plan to study the BC in the freezone. Would you please sent those materials to me at ? I will be eternally in your debt (until I audit a bunch maybe).
    Mark Elliott

  357. becomingAware

    Very well said Andy!

  358. I had a battle,too – concerning the destruction of training – and I used HCO PL 3 Dec 1964R, Booming an Org Through Training. (OEC Vol 4, p. 336)
    “public weren’t going to use them anyhow” and ““CI to selling books” level top in stupidity concerning that subject.
    When the PL was applied in our org, the org was very successful. When I left the area training-packages were regged to pieces.
    And the org went on a long decline.

  359. OTDT, possibly I risk to become unreal, but I would invite you to think about the following points:
    1. whether we like to look at it or not, DM is part of our dynamics. There is no extra place for him, like “our 8 dynamics” and “DM”. We are also part of his dynamics, whether he likes it or not.
    2. By disconnecting from a part of our dynamics, by considering it to be an enemy, by counter-creation, we have created an area that we cannot control – and there we have lost power. (So at some point it might be considered that those who wish to, confront any O/Ws that might be available on the subject, so enlarge their control.)
    3. From your current position, what are the existing resources you have at your command to improve the scene? (even if it may be just gradients)
    4. (I do not say that you should do this or that, because it might not apply to your situation. ) Have a look at my first essay on Steve’s page “Participation in the Dynamics” and the references given. Please note, Ron has issued this tech in Dec 78, quite soon after developing NOTs.

  360. Jean-François Genest

    Dear OTDT,
    You’re right → it IS insane.
    Yet it is Miscavidge’s NEW cru$ade. The big problem is that

    ♫ ♫ … and it brings us back to DO, a deer, a female deer … ♫♫ … and it brings us back to DO, a deer, a female deer … ♫♫ … and it brings us back to DO, a deer, a female deer … ♫♫ … and it brings us back to DO, a deer, a female deer … ♫♫ … and it brings us back to DO, a deer, a female deer … ♫♫ … and it brings us back to DO, a deer, a female deer … ♫♫ Infinite loop.

  361. Foremost,

    The IAS has evolved into something much different than what it was in 1984. I think in 1984 it was just a membership group with a comparitively small one-time membership fee. No endless statuses, no crush regging.

  362. DFB aka Dfb99

    There seems to be some not-is’ing going on here. I’m not sure why though, whether it’s intentional or not.

  363. Joe Pendleton

    Hi Jewel,

    That all happened in San Francisco? Sounds more appropriate to the happenings in a banana republic…… the 70s…… maybe a country like Peru (if you dig my drift – other South American countrys also produced tinhorn dictators, but I’m pretty sure this time it was Peru). if you (or anyoen else) want to say hello

  364. Felicitas Foster

    And then use the quote out of “From Clear to Eternity” and imply it is about money – a disgrace. Makes me sick – first time I am having a physical reaction while reading this blog.

  365. Correct, Tom. As an exec in my org, I did fight for years against this practice of pushing debiting, being targetted by CLO, pubs org and my own staff as being “CI to selling books”. This push stats alone started to undermine tech delivery and violates like hell the policy “We always deliver what we promise”.

  366. OTDT:
    Hi, the man was named Juan Prentice. Were you on staff back then?

  367. Felicitas Foster

    The interlocking between Curch and IAS is also documented by the posting of a representative for the IAS in Div 6.

  368. joe howard: thanks for the advice. I have to say that I have some of my old green basics, which I read several times , and I have done some comparisons to the new basics. I’ll read the old ones, because there have been changes. I lost my tech vols from the 70’s (I won them in a book selling contest) in a storage unit. Maybe I can search around for “old” tech vols. or borrow someones in the meantime. I love and agree with your ideas…just get the tech out there and the internet thing sounds interesting.

  369. oh, thank you!

  370. Excellent piece of work Mike, thank you.

  371. Thank you and hello to you.

  372. Re: Death from OT VIII,
    I have a feeling the level was not issued in it’s originally intended completeness. Once it left LRH and went through the filtering machinations of Church mismanagement it could have been chopped up in some manner. The level does produce a powerful spiritual phenomena. But I’ve also seen it produce a very strange almost blankness with those having done this level. It’s very much like the “Up the Pole” phenomena LRH describes on one of his OT hatting tapes, I forgot which tape, though. Maybe Creation of Human Ability or Anatomy of Cause? It’s a greasy pole. The ride up is spectacular, the slide down is an interesting reversal.

  373. I don’t think asbestos acts that quickly. It usually takes a number of years to show up and have it’s effect.

  374. Jewel,
    Email me at and I’ll tell you about my Juan Prentice experience.


  375. Thanks for the tip. I also have been searching for LRH books and OEC vols published in the ’70s, on ebay, as I am wary of getting stuff in the ’80s that may not be source. Any other ideas?
    Thanks again and ARC,

  376. Worsel,
    I’m not familiar with Steve’s site, so if you would please direct me to that, I’ll look at your article. Not sure why you wrote those 4 points to me, but that’s OK. Regarding the O/Ws you suggest to confront, I confronted O/Ws for a hundred hours of professional auditing at Flag AFTER OT VIII, as well as in my own personal ethics handlings. I’m thoroughly trained in that subject. But your ideas and suggestions are well taken.

    Regarding DM, although he very well may be SP and has weasled his way in charge, I do not consider him to be the sole culprit behind the mess in the current Church. There have been many like him, big and small. I’ve met many of them over the years. This whole waffly tech, mashed up mystery Mayo tech and DM crazy management soap opera has been going on since the 70’s (from what I’m aware of) with the issuance of BTBs and then supposedly fixed with the HCOB Tech Correction Roundup and then happens again with the Mayo tech/supposed hat turnover, and then now the GAT and book alterations, etc. So it’s been going on and tolerated for quite a while, really. The amplified and institutionalized DM beatings were the straw that broke the camel’s back for a lot of these top execs who’ve left in recent years.

    I’m personally still in mystery as to why LRH did not make a tape or video or write-up that left exact management instructions, all OT future levels etched in concrete, and a specific advisory management program that could have kept the train on the rails. Instead of unissued notes and out of context advices and mysteries flying all over the place. I am in awe of LRH. He’s probably the greatest person to have existed on this planet. But it doesn’t invalidate the fact that the absence of what I mention above has put his entire mission in jeopardy.


    PS: By the way, I don’t consider it as disconnecting from any part of the dynamics if someone were to totally punch out DM, get him arrested and comm eved. I would see that as extreme, active participation. Of course, one would have to have honed their martial arts and TR-O to a very fine edge. It’s a spiritual practice and has it’s uses. I suggest that those in “the hole” start secretly practicing and then create a juggernaut by busting out the sides of that double-wide and pull a coup de tat. Could be done but very hard if they are so weak from the overwhelm of suppression and their own complicity in the current scene.

  377. Jewel, not sure if I posted this earlier in the wrong spot, so:

    Email me at and I’ll tell you about my Juan Prentice experience.


  378. dfb99,
    It’s mind-blowing how many of us experienced and put up with this type of stuff. Flag reges and IAS regges camped out at my house with their OT 8 sidekicks as reinforcements just pounding and pummeling away to see if they could get me to crack up and pay up. How about hours and hours sitting in the IAS office at Flag being yelled at and invalidated for hours by multiple terminals, made to feel that if I didn’t give them more money then I was personally causing the destruction of all life on the planet? Objections to this always fell on deaf ears.

    How about the IAS trick where they showed you the confidential hand-written note by LRH that talks about big beings and small beings and how most people are just like grass? Ever see that one? If you didn’t pay, then you were just like the insignificant life force of grass, but if you paid then that was demonstrative that you were NOT grass, but more likely…a BIG BEING! I didn’t want to be grass.

  379. Time wasn’t ripe for Jesse to have gone the whole way with this. He would have been alone and therefore on the losing end.

  380. You are welcome and Affinity, Reality and Communication to you too Chris

    This Website may be of intrest to you:

    WWP is down now but there is a very big Thread of Leaks there.
    Longcat is Looooooong

  381. OTDT,
    OMG, 100 hours of O/Ws after OT VIII! That sounds VERY strange!
    The article you find here:
    I absolutely share that feeling for LRH. And for sure, there are data I would like to have, too. But since we cannot ask him anymore we will have to do without them.
    I would like to recommend two lectures that have helped me very much.
    23 March 1953a Review of Dianetics, Scientology … and 23 March 1953b What’s wrong with the preclear and how you can do something about it.
    (They are quite high levelled. I listened to them several times and needed quite a while to digest them – and found them extremely rewarding. LRH held them a few weeks after the Philadelphia Doctorate Lectures and they are from a course for professional auditors from that time!)
    If you wish I can mail the transcripts to the adress you gave below – and answer any questions you might have on the subject. (or at least try to.)

  382. Ideal Orgs: LRH vs. Miscavige

    From HCO POLICY LETTER OF 12 MARCH 1975, Issue II, Data Series 40, THE IDEAL ORG
    (First appeared as LRH ED 102 Int, 20 May 70, referring to evaluation):
    “Such an ideal org would be built by taking what one has and step by step building and smoothing; grooving in and handling each of its functions, with each of its divisions doing more and more of its full job better and better.”

    From International Scientology News magazine, Issue 48, article titled “Opening the floodgates for millions, A Golden Age at the threshold of The Bridge”, page 54:
    “The Ideal Orgs crusade was all premised on the “Why” blocking honest-to-god Planetary Clearing. Specifically, orgs were attempting to move beyond the point of make-break on a gradient, yet that is precisely the think and doingness that will invariably prevent target accomplishment.

  383. Joe and Jewel,
    Juan Prentice from Peru was the ED SFO FDN in late 70’s, early 80’s. He was a complete 1.1 asshole/SP and he was fully supported in his antics by Flag and FOLO management. He purposely soccer-smashed a fellow exec friend of mine in the face really hard with his head and fucked him up bad. (during a stat push) He got a slap on the wrist.

    He liked intimidating others and he was only interested in stats, power and image, not in helping anyone. He rose from body router to ED with the snap of a missionaire’s fingers.

    I knew him very, very well and left staff mainly because of him. He invalidated everyone all the time, sometimes overtly but mostly covertly, dripping with his “charisma”. He tried to trap me in his web but failed. He didn’t mess with me on the physical abuse because I think he knew I was willing to ram a sharpened pencil into his eye if he did.

    His sole mantra to his junior execs was, “GET MAD! GET MAD!” Like it was a magic formula he was bequeathing to them so they could go forth and implement this “powerful strategy”. He could also be very “charming”. I disliked him more than anyone I’ve ever met or worked with. Still, small potatoes compared to Miscavige’s antics that are being exposed.

  384. Worsel,
    Thanks for the link to your article. I read it. I’m a big fan of all LRH definitions pertaining to responsibility and pan-determinism across the dynamics. I don’t think that suppressed person rundown works as given though, even if it does come from LRH.

    Thanks for the tape references, I’ve heard them. I’m pretty well versed in the whole subject. But thanks for the offer anyway.

    Regarding your statement: “And for sure, there are data I would like to have, too. But since we cannot ask him anymore we will have to do without them.” I disagree with that idea, as I think a lot of these mysteries could be answered from information he left behind that is hidden from view. If I had access to all LRH notes and advices and secret tapes and archives I may be able to see with my own eyes what his actual instructions were and probably fill in a lot of missing data. I think they may be exposed and published one day, if the Church ever gets it’s shit together whereby parishioners have the right of access to this vital archive of material.

  385. Jewel,
    I must know you from SFO because I’m very familiar with the exact incidents you describe!

  386. Cat Daddy,
    Yep, thanks. I am pretty familiar with the Friends of LRH website. Some of them there knew me in my SO days at CCLA.
    Good deal and thanks,

  387. Nice job Mike. What your FEES buy.

    FEE: “A charge for professional services”

  388. I am not advocating violence. In my mind it styays cartoonesk. A good dress down would have been earned on DMs part though. Somebody should have kicked the little shits butt a long ytime ago but Pat B. had his six on this before being shot down by the little weasle himself.

    I actually wish him to find true love. In jail that is 😉

  389. I understand.

  390. I loved this post MIke… Thank you!!

  391. Pingback: IAS lies exposed: At risk of FRAUD charges? « SILVIA KUSADA's Blog

  392. Theo Sismanides

    Hey guys, is the site for most LRH materials. Just confirm an e-mail address and you can have them.

  393. Theo Sismanides

    I hadn’t a clue about this. Thanks Tom for clarifying per LRH.

  394. Theo Sismanides

    Hey Knowbody, that’s great!

  395. Theo Sismanides

    Ha, ha, go Tom!

  396. Theo Sismanides

    This is meant for Cat Daddy, hopefully it’s gonna appear at the right place!

    Cat Daddy, you mean the Anons, right? Point is I am not anonymous, I am Theo Sismanides from Athens, Greece and I am a Scientologist. Sorry…

  397. Theo Sismanides

    OK, Sam, we are tracking then… I am so happy to be here and one reason is you. You are one of the wittiest people I’ve met, I mean it. Actually it’s an honor to be around all of you guys. We stand tall without BS.

  398. Theo Sismanides

    Cat Daddy, as a matter of fact, wanted to write a bit more to you. I woke up this morning in a very good mood. And I can say that you have stood in here and you kept your position in space and being an Anon, I still don’t know your name, haha, but you did good, more good than bad.

    So, the Anons… OK… Just tell them to help get Scientology back to where it belongs, no BS please, have respect for our religion, actually an applied philosophy, a body of knowledge and just be in comm with us so we can talk like you do, even if sometimes you have your carping comments, haha.

    That’s all, it’s good to be here with you, I actually love to talk with people of other denominations, hahaha. Just a joke! 🙂

  399. Is there a new set after 1991? My 1991 has it (i.e. What Your Donations Buy).

  400. The IAS morphed into something completely different than what it was promoted as being originally in 1984. In 1984, it was supposed to be a replacement for the HASI (Hubbard Assoc. of Scn Int, a membership group that had been setup by LRH decades earlier). The IAS in 1984 had a $300 annual fee, or a $2,000 lifetime member fee. That was it.

    In the years after LRH’s death, it morphed into a no-exchange status-driven extortion vehicle.

  401. Might be true if not for the $4 billion spent on mobster legal fees, PIs, asbestos-filled ship costs, and endless over-the-top promo mailings over the last 24 years.

  402. Lucy,
    Can you tell me what project you did while in ABLE? What was your post?
    I use to be connected to APS re; a school and study tech in the field.

  403. Pingback: SURVEY RESULTS: This is why people leave the Church of $ « SILVIA KUSADA's Blog

  404. I audited Marty Rathbun after he witnessed the shooting death of Diane Coletto. I also trained many people at Pubs. I have not published or written much about the Church or nattered about them like Marty has so much I see. Rather I have helped build on the truth and am helping build the Church of Infinitology which takes the politics right out of religion and the religion right out of politics. Good luck to all you ex-scies and see you in Infinity!

  405. martyrathbun09

    You never did audit me. You all farmed me out to a field auditor. I think you have a crashing misunderstood on the word “natter.”

  406. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    “I have helped build on the truth and am helping build the Church of Infinitology”

    Really? You say …

    “That is why I, as the Tantric Master have founded the Infinite Freedom Foundation, the Church of Infinitology and the International Tantra Institute.”

    (Last sentence on the page)

    So you are “THE” Tantric Master? Let me bow.

    I found your “sage” advice on sex …

    “Sex only leads to hatred, jealously guarded secrets, shame, blame, regret and all manner of other social diseases.”

    (third sentence)

    I tried to go to the link of your church and there is no website there about your “church”.

    What happened?

    The page where you have that bad link is here …

    Your message on the above page did not communicate to me, either.

    What does your post here on Marty’s blog have anything to do with its subject matter?

    Why are you here?

  407. Bill Straass

    Scott, you got the story a little bit off regarding the advice I received from Cmdr Burgess. I was being Comm-Eved after I wrote a report to RTC regarding the Chief being railroaded and threatened with declare for not having a full set of spare parts for every machine (at a time when the ship could not even buy fuel and water). My then wife Sharron Corbell-Kimball-Straass-Weber….the Dir I and R told me that she would have Mr Burgess (He had been removed as Cmdr by then even though I saw a hand-wriiten OODs item from the Apollo by LRH Congratulating Cmdr Burgess on his assumption of continuous command of the Flagship Apollo. ) The next day He came by and saw me while I was in the drydock (93) He said “Don’t let the bastards get you”. Thats all he said. That night Sharron asked me if he had talked to me and I repeated what he said. She was shocked.She was expecting him to get my ethics in. He did.

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