The land of milk and honey and virgins galore

The following email sent out by the CO Flag Ship Service Organization is another sign of the death of the church of Scientology. 

It is twisted and sick on a number of levels.

The Commanding Officer of the highest service organization regging at all marks a sad era.

Any church of Scientology staff member, let alone the CO of the FSSO, regging for IAS is doubly wicked.

The CO FSSO being given a quota by David Miscavige (who sets ALL IAS regging quotas – just ask Debbie Cook and know by her silence) for over a million dollars for the IAS is about as off purpose a management order as could be imagined.

The CO FSSO going to OT Ambassadors (presumably the highest case level, most dedicated C of M members) to enforce such an off purpose, illegal crush reg demand is simply over the top.

The worst of all this is the promise of the land of milk and honey.  It is like the old assassin trick “go commit an unpardonable sin upon others, and you will be rewarded in the afterlife with streams of milk and honey and endless virgins at your disposal.”   Tying their access to OT IX and X to committing financial irregularities of the highest order is simply unconsionable.

It  is an outright fraud being perpetrated by David Miscavige. There is no OT IX and X.  The idea of OT IX and X was a creation of Pat Broeker, dreamt up on the heels of the death of LRH to keep the masses from open revolt and keep the vampire  Miscavige from his own throat.  He proudly announced that  “OT IX and X is compiled and ready for delivery.”   Those around at the time may recall the utter shock Miscavige suffered when Broeker (with no prior coordination) surprised everyone with that out-of-the- blue announcement. 

A two year series of intrigues ensued between Miscavige and Broeker jockeying to control the holy grail that did not exist.  You may have listened to my story about the raid on Broeker’s ranch that I lead to retrieve LRH’s auditing files (St Pete Times video interview). That was done because Broeker said the keys to OT IX and X were in those folders and to hold DM off from deposing Broeker, Broeker threatened to have IX and X copyrighted in his own name.

When the folders turned out to contain no holy grail, Broeker then said he had other LRH writings that constituted the keys to OT IX and X.  Another raid ensued – in which I coordinated a squad of armed outside security personnel to secure the premises.  It will take a couple of chapters – and hopefully I’ll get the time soon to complete the entire picture – to connect all the dots on this, but suffice it to say for now, it turned out to be yet another Broeker bluff. 

When Broeker’s bluffs were all called, he resorted to claiming he was channeling LRH and LRH was pissed about Broeker being reined in.  Quite often the channeling revelations were done in druken stupors.

All this IX and X promise business – for insane dollar demands for, of all things, a “war chest” –  are in my opinion the final step before Miscavige starts channeling LRH and telling his minions  in real time what the old man is allegedly ordering.

If you learn to walk the walk – rather than becoming an at-effect psychotherapy patient addicted by guilt to his or her sessions – OT VII done honestly and thoroughly, coupled with a thoroughgoing understanding of LRH OT lectures and books in application IN LIFE you will get to where you want to go.  OT VIII – unadulterated original LRH version – will connect the dots for those who don’t get there on VII.  On Source VIII is akin to a CCRD for VII, you can get there on VII, or you might need to connect the dots, clarify it and validate it with VIII. But in either event, you have got to walk the walk. You cannot pay any price for it – even $25 million to the IAS won’t get you there.  It is very easy to tell those calling themselves VIIIs who decidedly did not make the grade.  They are still acting as sheep, pimping for Miscavige.


    From: Int OT Ambassador Office <>
    Date: August 1, 2010 12:27:13 PM PDT
    To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
    Subject: Message from the CO FSSO


    As the Ambassador Ship for Top Command and you are an OT
Ambassador I need to go over a specific Ship target we have been
given that is crucial to achieve as it means New OT IX and X coming
closer for all. I know you understand what  I am saying.

 Additionally the ship is known for making its target no matter how.

 However they made to the degree my OT Ambassadors pitch in and assist in pulling it off.

    I am positive you have seen the IAS MV 3 event and realized the
scope of our activities on the 4th dynamic as well as the thrust to
disseminate and promote Scientology worldwide.

    And as I stated above we have a target that means you and I,
and that ship target is $1,200,000 raised for the IAS in 2 weeks.

    I am expecting you to assist your OT base! As part of your
responsibilities as an OT ambassador includes the success of the
IAS and moving up in status. Your donations are going toward to
greatest salvage programs that have ever existed for all mankind
and are the only programs that will ensure survival.

    You know the importance of releasing New OT IX and X and what
it means for this planet. The faintest chance this planet has lies
on the upper OT levels.
    Just like LRH states in the following excerpt from Ron’s
Journal 67:

    “We are no longer dealing with the time span of man which is 70
years – we are dealing with the centuries, and we have enough time
at the upper levels to bring it off, providing we work quickly
enough at the lower levels and within the framework of the society
itself, to prevent it from destroying itself before we attain our
purposes and goals.”

    To pull this off we need the IAS to literally keep the planet
here, so we have a chance to make it all the way.

    I want you to do your next status in the IAS now or at least a
meaningful donation and I want it to be given to the Ship IAS
office. What is your answer to my call?

    ML, Sharron

    Commanding Officer FSSO

353 responses to “The land of milk and honey and virgins galore

  1. Yuck! Somebody show that IMB about Solving it with Scientology to the CO of FSSO!

    Criminal – plain and simple.

    Who knew that from all that study of life and OT and all the rest, that our church needs to beg for $$.

    Cause over life?

    The organization that says it can elevate you to new high levels of beingness has its hand out for charity?

    (Vomits in his mouth)



  2. Don’t all the cap-in-hand, grovelling IAS donation beggars (we cannot call them registrars, since they don’t register anyone) get a 10% commission? Oh yes, give your money to the IAS office on the ship.

    Clearly the Church has been twisted into a clever and powerful theta trap. Guess what? We are going to fix that.

  3. Watching Eyes

    Sharron, CO FSSO, asks “What is your answer to my call?” Here’s my answer: Buzz off, you squirrel.

    I guess I missed the part in her email about people doing their next training/auditing step.

    She’s a complete & total disgrace.

  4. This is a little hard to follow – it’s poorly written.

    So much is implied here rather than clearly stated. Still, the reader gets the message that it would not be good to ignore this comm, since the world will clearly end if compliance isn’t obtained and if the ransom, er, target is not met.

    Without actually promising OT IX and X in exchange, it’s made clear that NOT raising the money will result in those levels NOT being released. I guess that’s just evidence of the church going further down-tone. Now they can’t even promise good things if you comply, they just promise bad things if you don’t.

    Makes me wonder how much money is still left in the field. Any? And how much willingness to hand it over the the church? This should be interesting.

    It occurs to me that dm probably figures that he wins either way; if he gets the money out of this, well, he’s got the money. If he doesn’t get the money, he doesn’t have to come up with more excuses as to why he’s not releasing IX and X.

  5. Did I just read this correctly :
    There is no OT IX and X. The idea of OT IX and X was a creation of Pat Broeker, dreamt up on the heels of the death of LRH …

    Looking forward to more details on that, but that is a shocker.

  6. Pingback: Tweets that mention The land of milk and honey and virgins galore « Moving On Up a Little Higher --

  7. Certainly a case of Villainy Victorious? Is’nt that face familiar on the front cover:

    sorry, got mixed up. Did you mention something about a vampire?

  8. So! IX and X: The Emperor’s new OT Levels.

  9. Beyond staggering and heartbreaking.

    Sharon has chosen this life in the SO. And yet:

    She has a remarkable story of survival as a young woman shunned from her own family and the family of the man whose child she bore.

    History seems to have repeated itself though as her choices in life appear to be —- status over family. Prestige over honor.

    Those who have left C of M have taken a difficult route – venturing into the unknown.

    Those who stay do so because of a certain comfort level. No matter HOW costly in real dollars or real family or friends. Nonetheless — it feels safe and comfortable.

    Kind of like the poor frog in the pot of cold water, on the stove as it heats up …

    Those that stay – never feel the water getting hotter. Those that leave figure out the inevitable conclusion and make that leap OUTSIDE (the pot) before it’s too late.

    Karma is like that. Cause and effect. Pure and simple. Karma itself isn’t good or bad.

    It just is. Cause and effect.


  10. Virgil Samms

    ” To pull this off we need the IAS to literally keep the planet here, so we have a chance to make it all the way.”

    WTF does the IAS DO to “literally keep the planet here”?? What does that mean? How do you literally keep a planet here? Is the CO FSSO saying that the planet is going to go away and only IAS can save us all now? I want to know how this omni-potent IAS organization can do this.

    The last time I knew, Scientology could help salvage this planet if we get thousands of OT VII comps and tens of thousands more auditing on OT Levels and doing things in the environ to change the scene.

    It befuddles me how people listen to this extortion-controlled manipulation crap.

    ML Tom

  11. Whelp, the coffers must be refilled. The PI’s are expensive. I do not have sympathy for those that keep givng just because they are ordered to do so.

    Even the SO IAS Regs are leaving the SO. I noticed that Kay Rowe is now out of the SO. She had been a IAS Reg for many years.

    Last week, Herb Zerden paid his was back into the good graces of the church by paying up to the IAS. There was a huge poster in the Sandcastle AO last week announcing that Herb had stepped up and paid his Patron Meritorous Golden Plantium Silver Copper level. Now if you recall, Herb Zerden and John Wooduff were in the National News in 2007 for their nationwide Foreclosure scam. They were sued by the Attorney General in several states for their company FAS. But, what does that matter when you can donate your way to good standing in the C of Mestology and the OT levels?

  12. martyrathbun09

    Great analysis lunamoth

  13. I used to love my Church

    LRH has never even heard of the IAS.

    Marty, I’d love a real Chronological order of Ron’s death and the events leading up to it and the events following. This power grab is intriguing.

    Also, I hear (brace yourself) from many Kool Aid drinkers that Super Power and OT IX and X will be released by the end of THIS YEAR, for sure!! And they believe it. What will wake these guys up? Obviously broken promises won’t.

  14. rory medford

    insanity breeds insanity

    Independent intervention and exposing the craziness will BREAK the insanity

    we just need o keep outflowing the truth and the insanity and follow DM at all costs will minimize and then and only then will people become free

    keep outflowing the truth no amount of armour can hide the truth

    the castle is crumbling

    look where saddam hussein ended up

    in the same hole he put everyone else

    eventually justice was served

  15. My answer?

    Sic Semper Tyrannis. “Thus always to Tyrants”

    From a native Virginian.

    – Tom

  16. Another George

    The IAS-pay-now mail is gibberish and sick.

    The WOOOOOWWWWW item is:

    There is no – and never was – OT IX and X.

    That means: that every Bridge to Total Freedom on display in orgs contains a falsehood too (at the very top – namely, that the OT levels up to OT XV have been researched and will be released – when enough people have achieved OT VII or whatever – at least this is what I believe it says).

    Again: the WTF OMG What-a-crap item is: there is no OT levels above OT VIII.

  17. I am shocked. What about this statement you hear all the time that OVIII is the first true OT level and the rest are pre-OT levels? Do you mean no one ever saw this in writing?

  18. No OT 9 and 10…….. I say it again. No OT 9 and 10! Cooked up by Pat Broeker.

    Seems to me all of this fund raising by the IAS so that OT 9 and 10 can be released is now a good case for FRAUD in case anyone wants to get their money back.

    Anyone care to give a legal analysis on this?

    Attaining OT through some future level that has not been released is putting the carrot before the horse and now we find it is just a ruse to get more money out of the public.

    Instead as Marty mentions, OT’s just need to live life and follow what they have learned through their processing and training in order to be real OT’s and set good examples for others.

  19. OMG Kay Rowe is OUT? I really liked her. She really believed in what she was doing. Like, how far out? Is she on public lines or out out like the independents?

  20. Dear Marty,

    I felt the ground shake with this posting.

    So OT IX and X don’t exist? This constitutes World-Class FRAUD. Is the $1.2 million one last dip in the well while the wholesale collapse of COM continues its course?

    Seems that “Truth Revealed” is delivered here, not on the Freewinds!

    Thanks again for another stunning write-up!


  21. Tony DePhillips

    Sounded like fancy begging to me. With a couple of handfulls of manipulative mumbo jumbo thrown in.

    I reccomend that Sharon goes back to being a hairdresser.

  22. Not surprising at all! But here is my answer to Sharron Webber: You have become a total disgrace in forwarding the fraud as ordered by Miscavige!

  23. WH, It sounds like you know Sharron personally, and I do also. This breaks my heart because she is actually a wonderful person. However, last time I spoke to her, the control was so strong there seemed to be almost nothing left of the amazing, energetic woman I’d known and loved before. Sharron is the reason I check in regularly on this site and others. I wonder sometimes if it is even possible for someone in her position to get away from the Freewinds. I await a miracle.

  24. Do you know where Kay Rowe is, or a way to contact her? We became friends many years ago and of all the IAS personnel, she seemed to be the one with the most integrity. I have often wondered what happened to her. She is smart and it wouldn’t be hard for her to have figured things out. Thanks for any data you might have.

    Also, are you talking about the same John Woodruff associated with the Orange County Org that became St. Hill size. Where is he?

  25. I see you have decided to take the gloves off. DM is reeling from these last two blogs, and that was before he opened the bottle of scotch.

    Very Well Done.

  26. Thank you for this! For some reason I had a substantial blow down on the news of OT IX/X, non existence of!

    One of the last times I saw Sharron (about 2 years ago) was when she came to reg with one of her star regges in Sacramento. Her appearance was touted as giving her famous lecture on ethics. (Also, SAC had to confirm at least a certain number of people would show up first before she would come.) Well, it was her lecture on ethics, a shortened version, and that lead straight into a group regging session. I was rather shocked at the time as it was such an obvious gimmick. She seemed desperate. The $$ that time was supposedly for the renos of the ship.

  27. Theo Sismanides

    For me too. Not that I would demand more from LRH, he has already done an incredible amount of work for us.

    It’s US now, guys. What WE do from now on!

  28. DFB aka Dfb99

    I always wondered if LRH would have intended OT IX and X to be not released 25 years after his death, if they did actually exist.

    Same with SuperPower. If these things are going to save the world it seems like we should release them. Unless there is some LRH in writing that explains why not.

    I cant imagine LRH saying “I’ve developed a fantastic new level that will save the world. Please sit on it for 25-30 years.”

  29. I guess the purpose of “A World without War Insanity and Crime” has been supplanted with pleas for money; happy audited pc’s and trained auditors replaced with pleas for money.

    I guess if we give the IAS enough money the planet will be Clear and OT. Sounds great, if not off policy and purpose. OK I’m in please pass the KoolAide. (heavy sarcasm)

    The no 9 & 10 is a hard pill to swallow. LRH mention’s L’s as coming from upper level OT material. How does this wash? I can believe the CoS has no 9 & 10 to deliver but I find it difficult to believe there was no additional work done by LRH on the subject. How do you get there? (Genuinely interested)

  30. “The following email sent out by the CO Flag Ship Service Organization is another sign of the death of the church of Scientology.”

    That says it all, Marty, right in that sentence.

    Stunning story about Broeker…I can’t wait to read your full story about this!

  31. I’m not surprised about Sharron doing this.

    She was in LA last year doing a seminar on ethics and toward the end she asked the entire group of about 100 to write up any of thier Scn friends who might’ve been spreading any “entheta” around after having looked at the internet.

    She generalized the “SP’s” as “Crap! Lies!” and what have you.

    She said she wanted to take the KR’s home with her and read them.

    I had this on an email audio recording, covertly recorded by a friend from LA. I sent it to Dan Koon around Christmas time ’09, so he’s my witness, but my computer has had problems in the meantime and so I believe it’s gone now.

    Very telling of the squirrelly crap-out, DM-bot Sharron has become.

  32. >Those who stay do so because of a certain comfort level. No matter HOW costly in real dollars or real family or friends. Nonetheless — it feels safe and comfortable.

    The same could be said of the Independents vs. those who leave Scientology entirely.

  33. If I were a Freewinds public and I received this email I’d print it out and take it into the bathroom when I did my business. Then I’d put it all behind me and at least her communication would have served some small purpose.

  34. Clearwater.Lawyer

    I love the title of this post. It sounds like the C of M is creating its own extremist jihad group to extract “donations” from the public.

    Lunamoth, good comment and analysis.



  35. David Miscavage makes up tech, so what’s to stop him from making up OT 9 & 10?

  36. Wow….so just to clarify..

    If LRH never wrote up OT levels past OTVIII, then why does the Bridge To Total Freedom go to OT XV?

    Or, is it a matter of LRH having done so, but such has been lost or is not compiled into usable tech?

    Any data on this?

    And, I agree that if OT IX and X are not going to be released, that such tactics are despicable. In Roman times such deceptions lead one to the arena – and not to the spectator section.


  37. – Vicki and Rick Aznaran –

    This is probably a good thread to bring it up. (I have some reluctance, because intuitively I think that Vicki and Rick would like their names to remain below the radar.)

    ~~ During the Broeker vs. Miscavige tug of war, what occurred with Vicki and Rick Aznaran?

    I will be candid. I knew Rick and Vicki before they were in the Sea Org. I liked them. I felt that Vicki had great compassion and concern for people. She had other great qualities. I trust her. Rick was a fun guy, very able, with a bit of a wild hare daring at life.

    I once asked Heber “How is Vicki doing? I haven’t seen her in any recent events.” Heber always had a gracious way about him, and he told me that she was working on some things.

  38. Vicker — what are you saying exactly?

  39. I did know Sharron — the first time as a rather ditzy but happy young woman who joined the SO only to be forced to leave because of legal threats by the father of her child.

    Then she returned – years later with a stellar rise to the top. I was no longer in the SO when she returned but she was quite kind to me during a rough bout.

    I’m sure there are others who love and adore the Sharron who once was — perhaps our collective “prayers” will bring enough space into her mind, she’ll be able to step outside the box.

    I believe in miracles btw — it’s actually the way the world IS — but clouded over by all the delusions 🙂


  40. This is all very disgusting and sad at the same time. One of the biggest outpoints about a lot of scientologists who are in the church and what they will do (murder, lie, cheat, extortion,…..) just because of money, and just because they think they have to BUY their spiritual freedom. What is so sick is the more money you give, the less freedom you are buying.

    Those who are under the radar or those that have been around a long time, start thinking about how many different get rich quick schemes have been involved with different parishioners. Everything from Reed Slatkin, mortgage companies, foreclosure services, etc… that rip people off all at the hands of getting more money to donate to the COS.

    If people were winning and applying LRH tech from finance policy to ethics tech they would be begging for more services and would be happy to pay more for more services. You would be doing well in life and the money would come as a secondary thing. There wouldn’t have to be hard core regging, and it certainly wouldn’t be arm twisting. It would happen naturally that orgs would boom.

    People wake up and start to LOOK!

  41. Only FSMs (and other non-staff and non-SO), get the 10% commission. Think Jeff Pomerantz and Michael Roberts.

    The others (staff and SO) are doing it purely for the stat.

  42. Marty, My friend you sure know how to get TA.
    I for one would like to buy an advanced copy
    of your book. You Sir are the best auditor I know. Well….second best. Love you, Sarge

  43. Tom,

    It seems to go hand-in-hand with the PR line that the IAS is now funding/sponsoring “all of the Church’s major 4D projects”, including “Ideal Orgs”, “VM Crusades”, etc.

    Don’t know which “Ideal Orgs” have been funded by the IAS … but I know at least a couple dozen that were funded by bleeding the field dry of every ounce of cash, credit and equity that could be crush reg’ed out of them. Same goes for the “VM Crusades” and “Human Rights Campaigns”.

    Maybe if the IAS throws in $100, they can legally claim that “the IAS is sponsoring” them.

  44. Tara, Now that is scarey!

  45. The original OT 4, 5, 6, and 7 are fabulous levels. If there’s a release of OT 9 and 10, it wouldn’t surprise me if they contained some (or all) of the old OT4-7. God help them if any of the original full OT7s are still on-lines.

  46. Me too.

    Marty, as far as you know, were those final LRH single lectures (RJ 36, RJ 38 and RJ 39, where LRH announces OT VIII), *really* LRH … or was it somebody playing with the editing machine? Or both?

  47. He had become the ED LAD in the later 1990’s but was apparently removed and under guard for falsifying stats in that org and the rumor around PAC at the time was that he was given the choice of SP Declare or an RPF like program. I never saw him again either way.

  48. There is nothing really wrong with Sharon. She is just a wrong-target, though she pushes the Miscavige agenda, she may be doing it against what she knows is right. Her only real fault is bending over to the orders of COB. She’s little different than Debbie Cook in that they both know about the atrocities that have been done, but have compromised their integrity and knowingness and put up a blinder on what’s going down “for the greater good”. Kinda sad how OT’s can be tricked and held down.

  49. That’s a good point KatS. I know that some of the longer-term (and higher tech trained) Independents think that doing the original OT 4-7, *after* Solo NOTs may be the best way to go.

    That one seems to indicate most to me, since it seems that NOTs was put right after OT III as an undercut to the original OT levels. Perhaps.

    I’d be curious to hear the opinion of the highly tech trained individuals here.

  50. Marty — perfect example why certain SHOCKING facts should be reposted/restated every month or so. (like dms life style and salary, lock down at Int etc.) Perhaps a GLARING facts section 🙂

    No OT IX and X was a topic months ago. New people to the blog could miss a post and by now the site is so huge, few are going to be able/willing to read each article AND the comments.


  51. IAS donations financed the purchase of the Freewinds and was the first of it’s kind as I recall, so renos of the ship seems to be a similar deal.

    This seems to be the model for the current Idle Orgs real estate creation venture for DM.

  52. Yeah, I’ll validate IO’s comments about the recording. The sound wasn’t the greatest, but she was on a roll about writing up KRs on your friends. Shades of East Germany under communism.

  53. Holy cow, if that’s what the Aznarans were like way back in the day, they both underwent serious transformations and not in a positive direction.

  54. “WTF does the IAS DO to “literally keep the planet here”?? What does that mean? How do you literally keep a planet here?” – Virgil Samms

    Tom, Good point!

    This was my greatest wake-up in the hallmarks of CoM deceptions.

    There is tremendous amount of 4th Dynamic deception going on which is very easy to see (if a person “looks” and has common sense think like the DATA SERIES).
    The IAS deliberately has not exposed any of these blatant 4th dynamic facts (e.g. the origination and private ownership of The Federal Reserve, the IMF operations, 9/11, etc.) (Just the facts…not theories.)
    The IAS has avoided any semblance of revealing what is really going on with the 4th D.
    I found this non-disclosure by the IAS silly and criminal, especially considering the awareness and tech level of Scientology.
    Almost anyone with confront (who will look) can find out about these 4th dynamic issues.

  55. Not sure of the numbers, but the RJ which came out in December 82 is a genuine LRH recording, recorded on new recording gear sent up to LRH for that purpose.

    It was mixed and only the usual noises, gaps were cut out. I ran off copies to send to all the orgs.

  56. What I’ve heard elsewhere is that Ray Mithoff has forgotten key instructions on how to compile OT IX and X. Ray told me once that OT IX is a training action much like OT VI and that OT X is a long auditing level. Marty’s post taken with LRH’s statements in earlier writings one of which is in the 1974 HCOB Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials wherein he mentions upper OT levels and Ray’s comments while BSing one day lead me to believe that there are, in fact, solo levels beyond OT VIII but that they are in such a state of disarray that nothing is likely to come out of them until there is a period of stability and peace within the organization where tech people can sort them out, pilot them, modify them, reverify that the materials are workable and then make them available. Given the current state of the organizations this should occur right after we get back from ice skating in Hell.

  57. Of course there is an OT IX and OT X and beyond that. All that need be done is to recycle the old OT levels that were abandoned in the 80’s prior to making all of the OT

  58. More outpoints that you can shake a stick at.

    1) The IAS puts very little, if any, money towards 4th dynamic “expansion” activities. In reality, it’s used to hire PIs and lawyers and to do DM’s dirty work. But the bulk of the money remains in offshore accounts collecting interest.

    2) As Marty pointed out, why is the CO of a service org regging for the IAS? Why is the ship given an IAS reg target? Per the documents submitted to the IAS for tax exemption, I recall that the IAS is supposed to be separate corporately from the service organizations. In fact, the majority of the IAS reg events are supposed to be done off the premises.

    3) Tying this pathetic reg attempt to the release of OT 9 & 10 is really nothing more than FRAUD. This is good because I want to get my money back from the IAS and they seem to refund money when you use the “F” word.

    4) The IAS is really nothing more than a distraction as it provides no exchange for any of the money donated to it. It’s worse than a Ponzi scheme. Money donated to the IAS can not be used for services, so money is diverted away from getting up the Bridge.

    5) An “OT” needs to continue to move up the IAS in status in order to remain in good standing. I call this EXTORTION.

    And the list goes on…

  59. In 1977, in broadly released issues LRH announced that at least 15 new Levels were fully researched and merely awaiting final write-up. Also the Class X, XI and XII materials make repeated and specific references to these Rundowns coming from “research on OT VIII-XV”.

  60. Is there any way you can source this email for us?

    I agree it’s more than a little creepy, but knowing if it’s valid and how it came to you would make it an even more powerful indictment of the current regime.

    I’ve been told by a close friend of the money-raising tactics of the IAS and this aligns nicely with what she conveyed to me. I’d be comfortable using something like this to help several other friends sever their ties to the CofS if I knew the particulars of it.

    Whaddya say?

  61. Kay Rowe is on facebook. I am not sure the exact reason she got out. She was at ASHOF as a library donations reg, less than a year ago, we had some good comm cycles while she was on the post, and she mentioned to me that she was having serious health issues for a while(to the point where she needed surgery, I forgot what was wrong exactly) when I asked why she wasn’t posted in the IAS anymore, but she said she was doing well now. My guess is that is why she had to leave the Sea Org.

  62. martyrathbun09

    And one year later he discovered NOTS, later OT IV-OT VII were cancelled and NOTS and SOLO NOTs were turned into OT levels. So, I kind of dig your implication, but if you are waiting for something beyond OT VII, you got a lot of waiting to do my friend.

  63. martyrathbun09

    Dan, If you believe “there are in fact, solo levels beyond OT VIII” you are in for a surprise. Not from L Ron Hubbard. All the speculation is meaningless if you actually experience what I put down in the last para of the post.

  64. martyrathbun09

    Ensifer, Sorry I can’t. One of several very reliable close friends of mine whom the C of M thinks is drinking Kool Aid, but has long since ceased.

  65. “Additionally the ship is known for making its target no matter how.”

    There’s that “by any means necessary” thing again that to me is so disturbing.

  66. martyrathbun09

    Good catch Paul.

  67. Foremost:

    Document that with the original Ron Hubbard issues.

    Michael A. Hobson

  68. ‘Joe Howard’ ,
    Wow!? …What happened? Fill me in.

  69. Vicki joined the SO while still married to Dean Stokes I believe and threatened him with declare etc if he kicked up a fuss. Dean capitulated but was never happy. Vicki tried to set up a Mission prior to joining the SO but failed.

    Rick? Well, he was nice enough. (remember Hillary/Barack? — you are nice enough 🙂 —

    In any case, I think Vicki was right up there battling for the LEAD position and she got taken out. That would have been her modus operendi. But she lost early on to Broeker and dm.


    She was one of the most unfriendly and unkind people as soon as she joined the SO and her rocket climb to the tip top kinda shows how willing she was to walk OVER the backs of others.



  70. Are they afraid us SPs are going to as-is the planet?

    I have better things to do!

  71. John Woodruff — same guy. He was public after a while. I don’t know where he is or what he’s doing, but Claire (presumably still his wife) is a real estate agent in Dana Point.

  72. I became very sick on the subject of money when I was in. It took some years to exorcise all of the insane think I’d accepted as okay over the years I was in.

  73. Margaret,

    The 10% commission goes directly to staff pay. The staff do get paid on all donations regged. It is NOT solely for the stat. There were most definitely weeks where I was on staff where the majority of pay came from IAS donos.

  74. I did OT VIII early on (not Maiden Voyage but shortly afterwards). I’m pretty sure it was the original (albeit shortened … per earlier article from Marty).

    And what Marty says about getting to OT VIII by connecting dots wasn’t my experience but ONLY because I tend to be rawther dense and need dots as big as the moon to connect them.

    My ex – on the other hand – knew OT VIII before he even did it. Not being the dense sort 🙂

    I concur with Marty’s last paragraph.


  75. I’ve never done the older OT levels, but I have read them, and they sure seem like easy things to add as OT IX, X, XI, and XII.

    Most of the people now in would never have done them and wouldn’t know the difference, frankly.

  76. Idle,

    I was at a similar event and we were all asked to write-up KR’s on our friends and she said she would take them directly to DM.

    I didn’t participate and got some interesting looks. LOL

  77. Geez Joe, what a waste of printer ink unless you can feed Charmin through the printer feed it would not be very comfortable either! Good idea, otherwise!

  78. Interesting. I knew them too, TL and I were on staff together there in Dallas.

    I liked them both. What happened Joe, do you know?

  79. What I think is creepy is that to save the plane they pushing staff to kill (abortion), to break families (if one of the member is not agreeable on donations) and they soon will come up with advices (if not done yet) of the sort of ” you should go to your rich grandma or parents and give them the command to leave the body tone 40″, so you get your heritage and therefore be able to contribute to the IAS and save the planet…

    The word “Clear” the planet is not even mentioned anymore…

    Thank you for sharing this!!

  80. Thanks Marty,

    I was aware of some of the actions going on in those days, but didn’t know the details. Await your couple of chapters detailing more!

  81. And one year later he discovered NOTS, later OT IV-OT VII were cancelled and NOTS and SOLO NOTs were turned into OT levels.

    RTC monkey-do. The Core of OT8 was written up ‘in 69. NOTs unburdening of the Case was required first before OT VIII could be run.

    So, I kind of dig your implication, but if you are waiting for something beyond OT VII, you got a lot of waiting to do my friend.

    My previous post was just a response to several people on this thread claiming the very upper OT levels do not exist. Some believe they do, other don’t. It would be nice to get the true facts on this.

  82. Sinar,

    These are the lecture titles and years I have:

    – RJ 36 “Your New Year” (1982)

    – RJ 38 “Today and Tomorrow: The Proof” (1983) (this is the one where LRH gives lots of stats and talks about the new management; there is also the voice of a male assistant on a computer in this one, which was pretty unusual)

    – RJ 39 “My New Year’s Gift to You” (1985) (This is LRH’s last recorded lecture [as far as I know] where he announces the completion of OT VIII, and it’s delivery to management.)

    I don’t know if there is an RJ 37.

  83. The carrot of XI and X is oldie, moldy and pretty rotten now. Wasn’t it supposed to be all Orgs to St Hill size?

    Now it’s straight cash to the coffers? Or else….?

    Does anyone still believe in the carrot after decades?

  84. WOW – great posting Marty.

    After you laid out the truth…..reading the email from the CO FSSO was like reading a campaign propaganda speech from within the book 1984. There is no truth to it at all, it is beyond sad. Reality has been utterly compromised.

    OT 9 and 10 are not coming. Don’t even exist right now.

    The IAS does not spend it’s money on “the greatest salvage programs that have ever existed for all mankind and are the only programs that will ensure survival.”

    The money is being spent on Daves’s lifestyle, legal expenses, freedom magazines to black PR the whistleblowers, an ungodly amount of PI’s, etc, etc, etc.

    It’s just a complete fabrication from beginning to end. He has a completely altered reality with followers who all agree it’s “real”.

    Thank you for this posting Marty. You have pointed out the obvious so aptly.

    It makes me so frustrated that many of those who received that email (and dozens of other emails), like my parents for example, still cannot see the forest for the trees.

  85. As a quick add-on to this, it also seemed that LRH’s intention (at least on 17 Dec 1978) in “Ron’s Journal 30: 1978 — The Year of Lightning Fast New Tech”, was for the lineup of the OT levels to look like this:

    OT I
    OT II
    OT III
    OT III Expanded
    OT VII (original)
    NED for OTs (NOTs)
    OT IV (original)
    OT V (original)
    OT VI (original)
    OT VIII (the original)


    Which raises the question: in which issue did LRH ever drop out the original OT IV-VII after NOTs?

    I read on here that it was Pat Broeker who suggested that “New OT VI” become the “training part” of Solo NOTs, and that “New OT VII” become the solo-auditing part. Can anyone else confirm that?

    Does anyone know if Pat Broeker had a hand in dropping out the original OT IV-VII? The guy certainly doesn’t sound like the most honest and trustworthy guy in the world, based on Marty’s writeup above.

  86. This is very disturbing news on so many levels. But it’s the truth and on THAT level, much appreciated, if hard to confront.

    I can not imagine that it will be very much longer before the total demise of the C of S as we know it will occur. All this crush regging and desperation is sooooo far off policy and the original purpose of Scientology that there can not be that many public who are not simply sick and tired of it. The same story over and over year after year, event after event. It’s exhausting just thinking about it.

    Sharon’s email will only serve to push more public into the background. OT Ambassadors were never meant to be used in this way, she knows it and so do the OTVllls.

    I am saddened by the deception that has been wrought upon the Scientology community for the length of time your communication indicates. The criminal activity that has been allowed to continue for all these years under the guise of “obtaining total freedom” infuriates and sickens me.

    One thing is certain. Every current Scientologist, whether in or out of the C of S needs to be aware of this information, most importantly, every OT.

    Thank you Marty,


  87. Kaye Rowe routed out of the SO and relocated to Colorado aproximately one month ago. You can contact her thru Facebook.

    The last time I had any data on John Woddruff was that he was selling rugs by the roadside. And yes, this is the John Woodruff from OC and LA Day.

    Here is a link to the Herb Zeden scam story:

  88. Enjoyed reading your blog.

    I believe you were once a friend of Steve Ganns? Is that correct? A Texan. Don’t remember the circumstances of your friendship but it was back in the early 80’s.

    He is btw still “in” but hasn’t been to Flag for years. We are not in touch, just info through the grapevine.


  89. Marty/Dan,
    At the end of 1978 (RJ 30), Ron still had the original OT IV – VII in the OT levels lineup. Is there a specific LRH issue where he removed them? I just looked through the Tech Vols from 1978 on up, and there is no issue which changes the line-up of the upper Bridge (though there is one that changes the lower Bridge).

    How did the lineup of the upper Bridge get changed?

    Could it be possible that Broeker is the one who took the original OT IV-VII levels out of the new upper Bridge?

  90. Tara:
    This is an excerpt of what I posted a few days ago ~

    Anyone who did OT 8 in 1989 did a complete different OT 8 to someone who did it in 1995
    And a completely different unrecognizable *EDITION* in 2001 and then again a super new different *EDITION* in 2009.

    These OT8s no longer in, got together and compared notes and could not recognize that they did the same RUNDOWN !

    So who is making up this stuff ?
    Does anyone believe LRH wrote 5 different versions of OT 8 ?

    ++=As more and more OT 8s depart and get together to compare notes, it was a shock for them to learn how their OT 8s could be so different will be revealed more and more on the web.

    ++** All this while DM sadistically has top Execs clean the bilges in detention punishment for several hours a day thinking he is out of legal jurisdiction to mete out horrific punishments. DM THINKS he can hold against will SO members on Freewinds that do not want to be there any longer. DM may THINK he is above the law.

    Most psychotics and sociopaths live in delusion even when red lights of warning hit them in the face day after day after day ~~ they are incapable of doing danger and bypassing to handle the DANGER.

    Great post Marty.
    Your book will be a masterpiece best seller.

  91. I need to go over a specific Ship target we have been
    given …

    Hmmm sounds vague. Given by whom?

    …that is crucial to achieve as it means New OT IX and X coming
    closer for all.

    How much closer? Always dangling in front of the nose. Isn’t that carrot really moldy by now?

    I know you understand what I am saying.

    You’re still being very vague but I’ll take a good guess: You’re toast under duress of severe punishment & degradation in the hole and we are SPs who want the planet to die if we don’t hand over all our money to you (er DM). Now.

    To pull this off we need the IAS to literally keep the planet here, so we have a chance to make it all the way.

    Did you really just say “literally keep the planet here”? Did you really just say: “Fill my coffer$ with money, hand me $1.5 million instead of doing the Bridge (getting services) … because why? because I am keeping the planet here?” You really just said that!?

    Let me get this straight. Hand you over 1.5 million dollar$ so you can keep the planet here. Then I can maybe soon (its closer) do my Bridge and get services. No questions asked, no accountability, and that OT IX and X is…soon just around the corner. and it’s so vital but THAT will not keep the planet here, giving you all our $ will.

    Couldn’t I just, um, do auditing and training? You know, have my Bridge?

    I want you to do your next status in the IAS now or at least a
    meaningful donation and I want it to be given to the Ship IAS office.

    And I want you to wake up. Now.

    What is your answer to my call?

    It’s called fraud. Wake up.

  92. *make it go right* Language ripped of from the Mob

  93. I’m not quite tracking here. The land of milk and honey…. a cleared planet, an OT universe, only possible by concerted effort of the few in this brief window of time by applying the tech…. is the MacGuffin that drives the scientology saga. Why would people put their life savings on the bridge, sign billion year contracts, refuse to speak with family members, undergo years of abuse, abuse others, etc. if not for good cause The macguffin is the one thing in a story that the main characters are willing to do anything to attain. (see wikipedia for more).

    Questions of whether or not the tech works or acting in integrity can easily get put aside when there is such a compelling vision driving one. I was under its spell for 29 years. It started with Ron’s Journal 67 where he says “we are mankind’s only hope” and that he has borne the burden too long by himself. In 1968 I journeyed to St Hill to go OT. I got the famous quickie grades and made a fuss expecting more that. It wasn’t until LRH put in expanded grades that people gave themselves the luxury of thinking that the quickie grades weren’t everything…. and yet many were quite satisfied with them. Oh the power of the game maker and the power of belief.

    At some point I came to the realization that the grand dream just wasn’t true for me though I imagine some readers of this blog still hold some version of this future unfolding as they work to right the abuses.

    A far more fundamental and universal dream is expressed by saints and regular folk… the brotherhood/sisterhood of man… love they neighbor as thyself… do unto others. Marty, you are doing great progress on that front…. reaching out and embracing people no matter their beliefs or past. IMO, fostering an atmosphere where we can all be ourselves and appreciated or only tolerated for our version of reality is a more potent tool than the tech itself.

    Kudos for eliciting a touching response from Jesse Prince among others in your quest to move a little higher.

    H. Beam Piper wrote a great sci fi short story about the power of hopes and dreams called Graveyard of Dreams


    If not LRH you make me wonder who wrote that issue stating there were 15 levels beyond OT 8 or that all orgs had to be St Hill size before the release of OT9. I remember the many attempts to bring LA org to ST Hill size including the day org being open nights and weekends… when most people came… all but completely bypassing the foundation org that was suppose to function in that time slot.

    The religious scholar Karen Armstrong writes in the wall street journal about two ways of knowing. Logos, the logical, practical and Mythos, the territory of the imagination:

    “Most cultures believed that there were two recognized ways of arriving at truth. The Greeks called them mythos and logos. Both were essential and neither was superior to the other; they were not in conflict but complementary, each with its own sphere of competence. Logos (“reason”) was the pragmatic mode of thought that enabled us to function effectively in the world and had, therefore, to correspond accurately to external reality. But it could not assuage human grief or find ultimate meaning in life’s struggle. For that people turned to mythos, stories that made no pretensions to historical accuracy but should rather be seen as an early form of psychology; if translated into ritual or ethical action, a good myth showed you how to cope with mortality, discover an inner source of strength, and endure pain and sorrow with serenity.”

    Looking at the Ron’s stories from that angle they take on a different meaning. In many ways they did just what she said: “…showed you how to cope with mortality, discover an inner source of strength, and endure pain and sorrow with serenity.” Some of us maybe took it took too far. Didn’t know when to get off the ship. Didn’t realize and appreciate the mythic nature of what we had embarked on.

    Others, I know, are full steam a head in living and bringing back the dream. Happy sailin’.

    I see I could have posted this on my own blog but you inspired me and I am most grateful to be a participant in the discussions. Plus you have a bigger audience 😉


  94. Ditto!

  95. I am gap-jawed…

  96. martyrathbun09

    Max, thanks for all that good food for thought.

  97. My (adult) daughter read this posting today and suggests that Sharron might have more success with her fund raising if she were to change the opening line of her email to “I am a Nigerian Prince…”

  98. martyrathbun09

    Veritas, Your sharp eye never ceases to amaze me.

  99. martyrathbun09

    Thank you Sherry.

  100. Thank you for saying that FOS. I have known Sharron a very long time, since before her first stint in the Sea Org. Debbi Cook woke up, others have awakened and come here or left altogether. Sharron will someday see the truth. My heart and home, all that I have are open to her, and she knows where to find me. I left a trail of pebbles on my way out to freedom!

  101. The Bridge to Total Freedom grade card goes up to OT XV

  102. Oh, that’s true. The Org’s income includes the 10% commission. I was on staff for 2.5 yrs (1984-1986) before the deluge of IAS donos, so I didn’t really experience that too much.

    Most weeks we went without pay, and I don’t know that we ever broke $50 per person in pure staff pay in our highest ever week (not including book/meter commissions).

  103. Hahahahahahaha! You crack me up LunaM…you AND your daughter!

  104. Wait a minute: WHO allready paid for those OT levels ?

  105. LOL!!

  106. non-scientologist

    There is something I don’t understand. Why hasn’t DM simply raided some previously released LRH material, and then released it as OT IX and OT X?

    Would there be a lack of internal consistancy that would make such a release obviously suspect?

  107. As the Ambassador Ship for Top Command and you are an OT Ambassador I need to go over a specific Ship target we have been given that is crucial to achieve as it means New OT IX and X coming closer for all. I know you understand what I am saying.

    Why is it “New OT IX”? This implies an “Old OT IX.”

    Also, dear, it’s clear you don’t agree with this target because you’re not owning it. You’re speaking about it from a position of effect: “we have been given.”

    This is as good a place as any to point out, can’t remember if I said it before, that Michael Hobson pointed out to me that “Golden Age of Knowledge” and “Golden Age of Tech” are, in a sense, tech degrades, as they imply that the tech is better now than it was when Hubbard was alive.

    Additionally the ship is known for making its target no matter how.

    It’s nice to know that MEST can do that.

    However they made to the degree my OT Ambassadors pitch in and assist in pulling it off.

    What does “they” refer to here? There is no appropriate plural noun referent. This is a gramatically bizarre email, have you done KTL?

    I am positive you have seen the IAS MV 3 event and realized the scope of our activities on the 4th dynamic as well as the thrust to disseminate and promote Scientology worldwide.

    The ship has no fourth dynamic activity. Scientology has no fourth dynamic activity. Some Scientologists, to the extent they’re permitted to do anything outside the third dynamic of the Church, may, though.

    And as I stated above we have a target that means you and I, and that ship target is $1,200,000 raised for the IAS in 2 weeks.

    First, you have a target. “We” do not have a target. You do.

    You’ve become a problem, dear. Enjoy your transition into MEST.

    I am expecting you to assist your OT base! As part of your responsibilities as an OT ambassador includes the success of the IAS and moving up in status. Your donations are going toward to greatest salvage programs that have ever existed for all mankind and are the only programs that will ensure survival.

    Because people weren’t surviving before and the human race was on the verge of extinction? Didn’t happen.

    You know the importance of releasing New OT IX and X and what it means for this planet. The faintest chance this planet has lies on the upper OT levels. Just like LRH states in the following excerpt from Ron’s Journal 67:

    No, I don’t know the importance.

    “We are no longer dealing with the time span of man which is 70 years – we are dealing with the centuries, and we have enough time at the upper levels to bring it off, providing we work quickly enough at the lower levels and within the framework of the society itself, to prevent it from destroying itself before we attain our purposes and goals.”

    The purposes and goals of the current Church, based on their current actions, aren’t in alignment with my beliefs. Scientology has become a non-stop begathon (okay, it was always a begathon, but at least before it was a begathon with exchange). How about delivering some actual service?

    To pull this off we need the IAS to literally keep the planet here, so we have a chance to make it all the way.

    Because all the non-Scientologists and SPs have the ability to as-is the planet and will do so at any moment.

    Wait. Wait.

    So the IAS is mocking up MEST? That’s its purpose now? Not just ideal orgs, but an entire planet?

    Isn’t that the antithesis of what the OT levels are about?

    I want you to do your next status in the IAS now or at least a meaningful donation and I want it to be given to the Ship IAS office. What is your answer to my call?

    The Church is not supposed to be about status. You’re not a Scientologist, dear, if you think status is what Scientology is about.

    Also? It’s good for you to want. Not gonna happen.

  108. You inspired me to make my own round through the email, Veritas.

  109. Tony DePhillips

    That is all well and good but currently these types of super-bots are conning a lot of other “good people” out of their hard earned cash. I really do think it would be better for Sharon to be cutting and styling rather than what she is currently doing.

    The Bridge can be good if not laced with extreme financial irregularities and fanatacism.

    As a friend of mine said ” The church could be a good thing if it wasn’t delivering in a cult environment.”


  110. Veritas,

    Ya know, when you break it down like that, I’ve realized that this email, like many others I’ve seen in recent years, is sort of a fuzzy xerox of a bunch of breathless hyperbolic cliches strung together. Old hackneyed phrases thrown at you, and after enough chattering with them, why, of course you’ll see that you need to give the church 10,000.00 or more, right now.

    It has become sort of a dialect: int management-speak. Another sign that there is no more original thought or speech left in the church. Compare that to the characters we see commenting here!

  111. crashingupwards

    Lunamoth, your read it the way I did. Poorly written. Lousy grammar and totally devoid of any lines which would inspire anyone to do anything. Rehash, rehash, rehash. Even the LRH quote was matter of fact. Either her heart wasn’t in it or she is in way over her head.

  112. non-scientologist

    unreleased LRH material, (I miswrote)

  113. Thought Provoking

    The IAS bonus was also given to staff at my org and in some cases if it hadn’t been for the bonus, the staff would not have been paid that week. Nothing worse than being a reg and having to make the GI quota despite the IAS quota demands which you as reg were expected to pull off.

    On the other hand, if the org had just done the standard and the usual delivery people would be blown out, paying for their next bridge action and bringing in their friends to boot. There would be no GI problem in the first place. Deliver the good and get rid of the IAS, it’s a cross order on going up the bridge.

  114. Marty,

    Good job on putting all the pieces of the puzzle together.

    We’ve been involved in a very large string pull for some time.

    I think the OT IX and X fraud is the Sherman Tank to which the bottom of the string is tied.


  115. Holy crap! This is disgusting!

  116. I can’t believe that people who’ve been in for years and seen all the atrocious behavior are still placing their faith in this organization. I think they are just very afraid of what will happen to them if they do not comply, and after thirty years or so aboard the Freewinds, the thought of having to start all over must be overwhelming. Kudos to all the long-timers willing to tell their stories and make a safe space for the refugees.

  117. Free Scn:

    They may win some in the law courts under the guise of “Religion”.

    But criminal conduct has no 1st amendment protection.

    A Crime is a Crime is a Crime in the eyes of law enforcement.

  118. People who remain firmly entrenched within scientology — not those many many who lurk here or are under the radar – but those who do believe that “the next step WILL be the key” – remain because …

    they know in their heart of hearts they are bat-sh** crazy and hope that the next level will save them.

    Those who left earlier or are under the radar but firmly never going to go back into dms sessions — decided that even being crazy was far less scary than remaining IN the asylum.

    What was never expected — at least by me — was how fabulous life OUTSIDE the asylum could be. How people, those silly “wogs” or “dbs” were decent souls trying to live their lives — by and large.

    There is no faith within the CofS — just a bunch of terrified people.

    Having to start over again is easy. Staying stuck is what is hard.


  119. Joe Pendleton

    I think some of y’all are underestimating Herr Miscavige a bit. He is a MASTER huckster AND enforcer of other determinism. I would be shocked if he didn’t have a “plan B” of SOMETHING that could be issued as a further OT level (s). But this isn’t something he has to do soon. There are all sorts of “targets” that the public have to meet first and the whole “Super Power” scam shows us how long this all can be drawn out. It is likely that more upper levels will be released to celebrate Leader Dearest’s 50th year jubilee as the chairman.

    Something can ALWAYS be patched together and if the folk will buy the story about LRH”s death…..(I think this is when Miscavige started thinking about the truth of the line from the old Marx Brothers movie where Groucho as the President of his country tells his people…”well, are you going to believe me or your own eyes?”)

    It all depends on how utterly controlled the moneyed public allows themselves to be and continue to give.

    But…NEVER forget that if you stay on church
    lines, PART of your constructed universe is “agreement with management” – again, it is part of the world you live in and have agreed to. Greater or lesser of course and you can avoid IAS reges to the best of your ability, but you WILL eventualy be forking over more amounts of “contribution.”

    To show you how this impinges even on us who no longer are active in the church; a VERY close friend of mine is in credit card hell after becoming a patron. This friend has now requested a loan from me of $20,000 plus. See? Now I am expected to subsidize the IAS contribution even if I am completely opposed to the IAS. I actually don’t have the available cash and so declined the request. This person still works for the church and so his income is very precarious (in MY opinion anyway). But this is just an example of how these money demands ripple outward with bad consequences.

  120. Weren’t the “old” ot levels dropped due to the need for further work before them, such as NOTS? Not enough people were properly set up for them after OT3…

    I always thought that that was the plan, put old OT 4, 5, 6, and 7, back in the mix after the new levels thru 8.

    The old OT levels seem like OT ability drilling and such…

  121. Joe Pendleton

    Big gravity machine now being built in Antacrctica to counter psychs trying to throw Earth off its axis (for no other reason than they are just plain EEVILL.)

  122. The new OT4-7 were introduced several years before LRH passed on. When NOTs was introduced, there was no explanation to original OT7s regarding their achievements on the grade chart. Those who did the old OT4-7 were ignored in the switch to NOTs. IMHO, the original OT4-7 were more productive (by far) than the new OT4-7. Can’t comment on OT8… the “original” version was never released, so who knows what the current version is.

  123. And how would the Goverment call it 😉

    Come on you can do it: think !

  124. What an airy-fairy crock (Maxim’s).

    I’m completely behind the Independence movement. I believe that Drawing & Quartering would be far too lenient a punishment for DM, given his crimes in taking down what LRH spent a lifetime building.

    I’m also for free speech & for sure, people have accumulated a lifetime’s worth of bypassed charge under DM’s Reign of Terror. By all means, let’s vent as needed.

    But a “MacGuffin” that “drives the scientology saga”? Ron’s “stories”? “Oh the power of the game maker and the power of belief”(??)

    WTF is this guy talking about??

    I love it when these no case gain, open-minded types bring in the mythologists, “religious scholars”, ganja weed smokers and peyote chewers to tell us from their vast wellsprings of knowledge what Scientology REALLY is and what LRH was REALLY up to.

    Give me a break.

    Please consider keeping this drivel off the blog. Reading comments that disparage the tech or LRH gets me all “sudden”!

    What exactly is the “good food for thought” that Max is bringing to the table here?

  125. Many IAS donations are tight in with the “release”of those levels.

  126. Joe Pendleton

    Mark, fraud in the sense of promised spiritual gains would never be allowed to proceed. The church is allowed to freely exercise the religion per the First Amendment to the Constituion. All religions “promise” eternal salvation and ask for contributions. Can they “prove” it. And if such a case ever did get to court,, I have no doubt an “OT IX and X” would be produced.

    BUT… has been ruled that free exercise of religion does NOT include such criminal acts as murder, rape, kidnapping, child abuse, etc.

    In a civil case to sue the church, the best bet would be for loss of civil rights, mental distress, etc. Hard to win because almost all people in the RPF or who are extorted and are still in the church would only testify on behalf of the church.

    Still, I don’t think the point is “winning” any legal suit. The buttons to push with the society (and legally) are forced divorces, forced abortions, exploitation of children, extortion, forced detention and imprisonment (which besides being criminal are a loss of one’s civil rights).

    Rather than winning these suits would be the constant PR pressure and publicity (hello Oprah and other shows). Of course since the church has tons of money, this would all require a number of lawyers to take this on without remuneration, for free that is, pro bono as they say in the legal game. But I think this is a vital action.

  127. How am I expected to believe that Sharron is an OT when there is a grammatical error every second line in that email?

  128. crashingupwards

    Vicker. Your analogy flowed smoothly, but it lacks a lot upon consideration.

    Scientologists, whether inside or outside the organized church still practice scientology. They all associate with other scientologists. And yes, there is a certain comfort level in that and a certain value.

    Your implication that it is a crutch for Independents to not leave scientology completely is a flawed rationale and it implies that if one were strong that they would leave entirely.

    You would have to believe there is no value in scientology to state that. And in that belief, you would have to be ignorant of the material which makes up the body of the system, drawn as it is from many earlier workable therapies and technologies.

    I, for instance, completely left scientology. Following your logic, that would make me stronger than Independents who remain as practitioners. Let me assure you, as strong as I am according to your scenario, I am continually in awe and impressed by those who maintain their practice of scientology and who post here.

    By your analogy Martin Luther would have had to have quit Christ alltogether or be labeled weak.
    If you are not religious, say so. If your pride and vanity feeds on that fact, so be it. No need to make others wrong who practice a faith.

  129. Eileen Clark

    Hi everyone,

    Been off the lines for a couple weeks, but have just gotten caught up reading up to this posting.
    You all have covered things completely and I must point out that the exact time, place, form and event are evident in each posting and comments. That cannot be said for what/who is being written about. All this truth is blowing more and more lies away, clearing the air, making it possible for others to make their way through the labyrinth (” I ask for so little (much) . Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I (you) will be your (my) slave “).

    David Miscavige is working very hard at his own demise, it is unfortunate that he will take others, like Sharron and those other staff and public who refuse to take any responsibility for the wrongnesses they see/contribute to. In the Free Being lecture, LRH says (paraphrased) that the overt of omission is far harder on a being than those of commission. In the end it will be very rough for them to know they did nothing to stop him yet assisted him. We do not need to point out their errors or hold them up as examples. They are classically PTS to a very real SP and have given him the power he uses and abuses. There is not a Scn out here in the field who was not previously also PTS to him and/or his lieutenants, to greater or lesser degree.

    What is most important at this time is to keep up the attack on David Miscavige to expose his crimes while at the same time doing all we can to help those who are still suppressed to LOOK. And above all, we must make possible and increase delivery of standard LRH Tech everywhere and wherever we can. We have and can deliver the entire legacy of LRH up to OT VIII (questionable?), that is what will salvage Earth and we are way behind target to do that.

    That is my 25 cents worth of summary of the past several great postings and comments. IMHO
    The greatness, the care, the integrity and toughness, the thoughtfulness of each of you shines out of each posting. It was good to step away for a bit and come back just to see that.
    I think you all are very special and are part of a great adventure we will look back on some day.

    To those still lurking and unsure…what else do you need to learn/see/hear/experience before making a decision? It’s an ethics matter to be PTS and not report yourself for handling. I am certain that Lisa Hamilton could help you out there, as well others here. I am not auditing you so I can say what I like and what I’d really like is for you to stop dithering and get on with it. It is YOU who will make it or not, by your own decisions and actions. David Miscavige has no power over your spiritual future, unless you give it to him.

    I’m off my soapbox now. 🙂


    Thank you Marty and Mike for providing the data and means to get more and more of the truth exposed. Loved the interviews… 🙂

  130. L O L !

    Thanks to your daughter, Lunamoth.

    Just Me

  131. Allow me to temporarily summarize my thoughts on all of these provocative comments and observations:

    The crimes and lies behind the take-over and denigration of Ron’s work constitutes “a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.”

    And here it is being sorted out, finally.

    Thanks. Scientology is getting fun again.


  132. I remember a bit more about this. Sharron was going on very pointedly about the per day cost of running the ship. She came offering an incredible deal on accomos, something like half off, if one paid for the accomos services, in advance, before a certain time. The money she regged during that abbreviated ethics seminar was to be used to keep the lights on and engines running on the ship! REally sounded like they were hurting. Apparently the IAS doesn’t pay for the ship’s fuel if they’re hurtin’ for GI.

  133. I have done all the levels plus what ever was offered there is no such a thing as higher levels As Ot levels. But there is incredible amount stuff need to be confronted in order to achieve the promised state. the these stuff is not in orderly manner so it can not be put a number or category an it. Simply a maze, only will power, persistence, many hours of work will give the results. orzse.

  134. More Bingos! That GimmeYoMoney letter is full of holes. It holds as much water as a collander.

    Excellent point, Deidre. How can they call that tired dangling carrot “New” OT IX when there is not even an “Old” one that was ever released?

    And why don’t they just *deliver* it after all these years of terrorism (world ending, SPs everywhere). ahhh, it’s the Ace in the HOLE extortion gimmick.

    Additionally the ship is known for making its target no matter how.

    Yep, no matter how… legal & ethical or not, right?

    It’s nice to know that MEST can do that.

    However they made to the degree my OT Ambassadors pitch in and assist in pulling it off.

    Lil Elmer Dud as we chomp it. what’s up, Doc?

  135. windhorse,
    At around the time Rick and Vicki went into the Sea Org, they had their 2-D together… and Dean Stokes and Melanie had their 2-D.
    Some earlier track…Prior to Dean and Vicki being married, Rick and Vicki had a 2-D.
    If I am not mistaken, the start-up of a new Mission by Vicki was hampered by insufficient beginning resources.

  136. Fellow Traveller


    Theta does magical things.

    I had just responded to Mike Rinder’s survey and answered the question about most impinging fact: That the Cof$ does not have a monopoly on ones eternity.

    And here is this posting that gets around to OT 9 and 10.

    I admit I went through the tone scale on this post. All of it.

    I arrived at a point where I said: If there are veritases, Jim Logans, Martys, Mikes, Dans, Steves, Plain Old Thetans, Michaels (OnceUponaTime)m WHs, et al just with what has been released, well let me achieve those levels and revisit this scene with my compadres. Let me apply personal integrity and code of honor and truly walk the path that LRH blazed. Then see if this 9 and 10 thing and subsequent levels has the same significance.

    Anyone want a wager?

    Bruce Pratt

  137. Deirdre,

    The grammar is terrible in this email. Do you know if English is Sharron’s native tongue?

    I think you are dead-on accurate that her use of the passive voice (“we have been given a target”) shows her disagreement with it.

    I would further say that if English IS Sharron’s native language, this email, being so poorly written, is (possibly unconsciously) an effort to cloud or diminish the communication in it so as to render it less effective.

  138. Virgil Samms


    “The intention of the physical universe (and those who have become degraded enough to
    further only its ends) is to make a thetan solid, immobile and decisionless.

    “The fight of the thetan is to remain unsolid, mobile or immobile at will, and capable of
    decision. This in itself is the principal unresolved problem and it itself creates timeless mass which accomplishes the basic purpose of a trap.”

  139. becomingAware


    I agree with you.

    Always has been up to us but today’s post slams it home. Time to stop waiting for . . .

    Can’t buy our way out of this trap. Marty is putting the responsibility where it belongs just as you said.

  140. TheEmperorIsNaked

    I gotta agree with Tony on this one. Sharron is pretty good a lecturing others on operating on the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number of Dynamics. Does she? And where is her Personal Integrity?

    She is supposedly OT (correct me if I am wrong), does she honestly not know people are held against their will on the Freewinds?

  141. Thanks windhorse ~

    Yep. I haven’t heard of or seen Steve since the 70’s though. From time to time I stumble across people I associated with in the 70’s and early 80’s who are ‘still in’ but haven’t done a single thing for years.

    Sounds fairly typical for that era of Scientologist.

  142. Ne Obliviscaris

    I was going to say…

    Sharron was always a nice girl, but completely other determined.

    The ideal Sea Org member — no Q & A.


  143. ooopss..sorry formatting was off at the end of my comment up there, meant to say…

    Deidre, this is funny! >—> It’s nice to know that MEST can do that.

    But hey, even though the ship does it all, the she throws that little bone out OTs help a little:

    However they made to the degree my OT Ambassadors pitch in and assist in pulling it off.

    Aww, the OTs “pitching in” their $1.2 million helps the ship a little.

    And as for dangling carrots: Lil Elmer Dud is scratching his head as we chomp it. What’s up, Doc?

  144. RJ 38 was written by LRH and recorded by him. The “assistant” was played by Ron Clifford, long time Gold staff member who was formerly a voice talent in his pre-SO days. I directed Cliff because I was the Director in Cine at that time.

  145. Sinar, I basically stole it from something Voltaire (I think) wrote in response to someone who had sent him a critical letter. He wrote, “I sit here in the smallest room in the house with your letter before me. Soon it will be behind me.”

  146. Rick and Vicki showed up at Int in 1982. They both became utterly corrupt and used their positions (VA was top dog in RTC and Rick was Security Chief on the base) to make life as comfortable as they could for themselves while abusing people junior to them. Rick pulled stunts like standing Jackson outside MCI with a sign around his neck as the base paraded to a meal for some slight infraction in an effort to humiliate Jackson. Vicki was notorious for trying to get rid of anyone who had worked directly with LRH and spent her post time (I’ve been told) shopping in Hemet. Both became totally corrupt while in important positions at the base and were shot from guns when DM came to the base from LA in 1987 and cleaned out RTC which had become likewise corrupted under VA. Just your typical power corrupts story.

  147. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    I think her PTSness is making her stumble on her grammar. Obviously her sense of doing the greatest good for the greatest number does not include anyone on the planet (or universes for that matter) but Der MF/Nstein.

    Isn’t “terrible futures regging” a high crime?

  148. Yep. The speech is prethunk fabricated plug n’ play…
    But here….whhhoooa…the whoooosh of unruly, fresh, live, sparkling thought.
    Good point.
    and Jim Logan’s even comes with mockups visible by others it’s so alive:-)

  149. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Very good idea, WH!!


  150. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    I vant to suck your vallet, blaahh!

    It looks just like DM, though much taller than the real DM aka BatFace.

    ΘTater/Gary (looking for my wooden stake…)

  151. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    You do know how to tell the truth in a most delightful, eye-opening way!

  152. Marty,

    You said that you recovered material from Pat Broeker in a raid of his ranch, that he had claimed were LRH’s material to derive OT 9 and 10 from…(which was found not to be fruitful…)

    Did this material contain session data of LRH running SOP 8?

  153. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    Well sir, I do believe you have just insulted the Independent Scientologists here (and elsewhere)!

    Go back to your cave and continue hiding, please.

  154. Tony DePhillips


    I hope this won’t overrun anyone, but I have the need to say a few more things.

    For those of you reading this out there in internet land I wanted to make a comment. I have given over 30 years toward helping the church in some form or another. I never have claimed to be perfect or ever pawned myself off as the OT of the universe. But because I found things on the internet that I absolutely could not ignore that the church was being accused of ( and I could not help but believe a lot of it) I had to speak out. After speaking out and being further attacked my wife and I resigned and then were told by the MAA’s that we would be treated as SP’s since we were committing SP acts. The local Org has decided to put my head on a pike as they call it. They are still going around “convincing” people that I am an SP. Now if you haven’t been declared yet you may not know how this feels. Imagine the “church” going through your folders and then coming up with their story of how you are an SP. Your past friends convincing your other friends that you are now an SP. Very surreal. I am sure that I could pick anyone and go over their PC and ethics files and make a strong case “using generalities and exaggerations” that they are SP. Well, this is what your church does now. The organization that was dedicated to “putting ethics in on the Planet” has stooped to be one of the lowest and degraded groups around in my opinion. If they could only confront some divergent views all of this could have been prevented. So what If I told people that I don’t like the disconnection policies, the abuses in the RPF, the coerced abortions in the Sea Org, the violence and physical abuse of veteran Sea Org members, the lack of transparency in the churches finances, the abuse and violation of LRH financial policy etc.? People could have the right to disagree with me right?? But nooooo, they HAVE to call that kind of person an SP. Well, you get flat on it after awhile and it gets easier to confront the evil that is there. I have actually been having some great wins from all of this. You have heard the old saying “disagree and go free” right? In the church that got played out to get you to give more and more donations. Now that phrase actually means something to me again. To me it means disagree with all of the robots in the church that are dramatizing their banks on some sort of religious cult type drama. Ignore all of the wrong items and indications they throw at me. I have realized that the people still in and doing this kind of thing have not duplicated what Scientology is yet. Or they have and do not have the guts to demonstrate their knowledge. So by disagreeing with all of that , and thinking for myself I am freer than I have ever been.
    Well if having my integrity means that I am an SP then so be it. If that is the definition of an SP then ok I will wear it proudly.
    Thanks for listening. 🙂

  155. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    Is this the Kay Rowe that used to be on staff at the Santa Barbara org in the 70’s/early 80’s?

  156. martyrathbun09

    The only reason VA was busted was for continuing to listen to her LRH-appointed senior, Annie Broeker.

  157. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    I did the original OT levels 1-7 and at the time (’80) I had the choice of doing NOTs (OT-V) or the original OT-V, VI and VII. I knew that I would be able to complete those but not NOTs due to the cost and some of the indicators I saw from some of the people I knew that were doing it were not good.

    I loved those levels and doing New OT-VII and VIII back in the ’80s and for anyone who has done them correctly per LRH, I would bet that they greatly enjoyed the wins and abilities which enhanced NOTs and OT-8.

    As far as OT-IX goes, I believe I’m due a refund from the IAS. (Which I have asked for but have not heard back from them.)

    Gary 🙂 – (DM, I’m still carrying a “torch” for you. Shoves and Pisses, your favorite villager)

    “Any difficulties people were having with going Clear were handled in the mid ’60s and OT levels as they exist in Advanced Orgs were completed by ’68. There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s attainment of OT VI & VII.”

    Marty, I’m not waiting for anything but the development of NOTs doesn’t necessarily mean there aren’t these other levels still in note form. Target 1 is get DM off the lines. Target 2 is straighten out the mess he left behind. As soon as on-lines public realize that beyond the current highest level services there exists only chaos the better off they will be. I recommend they pick up their copies of Creation of Human Ability and work out how to get through Route 1, probably after doing the “Old” OT IV, V and VI in the Freezone as a gradient.

  159. Let me remove a generality from the lines here Tony. The one behind the spreading of falsehoods against you is in fact DSA Ann Pearce. She of course uses her lackeys – HCO and the Exec structure to directly deal with public. And of course behind her are her seniors at OSA WUS … I won’t bother naming them or their seniors, you get the point. You’re a stat to her.

  160. Lunamoth
    Give your daughter a hug from me. That was priceless! 😀

  161. My advice to anyone searching for the ‘upper OT levels’ as a solution to life or a means to increased ability is that if you want to be an OT – START BY ACTING LIKE ONE!!!
    Sharron is a classic example of an ‘OT’ who has not yet been able to experience the gains from the tech due to personal out-ethics and low responsibility (inability or unwillingness to be cause as evidenced by the fact that she being entirely other determined).
    It’s that simple.

  162. Tony,

    Thank you for this newest slice of your life’s journey post Scientology (organized church). I understand what you mean about this being surreal. One day, all of these people will know the truth. Thank you for having the guts and integrity to put your foot down. Your true friends are all around you now.

    Note to OSA: This character assassination has got to stop. Stop being spies and and low life crime syndicate thugs. Remember why you got into Scn in the first place? What kind of religion do you belong to? Did you really want to sell your soul? Come on, wake up.

  163. Tony,

    Your posts are always of interest to me, and I duplicated this particular comm perfectly.
    Although the “declare” may have been tough going, I personally think you are doing great and I congratulate you on your wins!
    I had a few losses myself in trying to find the R to bridge this subject but have read the successful actions of a few and it appears the “Friends of LRH site” is a good starting point. This blog is of course a superlative resource…but it would depend on the R of the being you were talking to.
    I applaud your integrity.
    My two bits! Congratulations on your declare! Wear it proudly!

  164. Well said, Tony, and utterly true.


  165. I’ve known and also audited her. She can be very nice as a person and makes case gain. However, under the suppression of RTC she has also shifted into a psychotic personality. I’ve seen it with my own very eyes. She was a wreck when I first began to audit her to a point nobody would want to audit her. I got her fixed up and winning again, but it didn’t last very long and she was also put back on NED and audited by someone else. She’s now a complete puppet of DM.

  166. Tony :
    Your story is timeless, OK, to keep telling it, it tells a whole current scene very articulately and the story should be told.

    It is true and absolutely sickening how pc folder data is used on their hate websites.

    This is as low it gets.

    Here’s a Story for the Marty Bloggers.

    A Mexican first name Daniel Asse pays $130,000 for his wife to get Bridge at Flag FSO.
    She returns with Golden age of Tech auditing up to Power Processing. Grade V.

    He goes to Flag and has 3 Ls. He returns to find his wife having sex with a Senior CS in Mexico.
    The EP of her Flag auditing and gift of $130,000 worth of services is out 2d with a staff member. (Senior CS)

    Daniel then finds out she has emptied their (husband and wife) bank accounts and “donated” his joint account funds
    to Ideal Orgs. This is to avoid Ethics for the out 2d.
    He goes ballistic and threatens major exposure.

    (for Ideal Orgs) while he is at Flag.

    Outright theft.

    He is refunded the stolen money and then gets a run around at FSO and AOLA threatening his spiritual future.

    He is now on multiple lines wanting ALL his money back and wants complete exposure of church corruption and what happened to him.

    I wish Emily Becker and Valerie would hop over to Mexico in a timely manner so that refund cycles do not flap on my lines.

    Imagine me having to listen to a comparison of the “Church” with corrupt Mexcian Federale.
    Such is the perception of the Church after one of these criminal reg cycles.
    Get with it OSA.

  167. I don’t know if English is her native language or not, but it’s also possible she didn’t actually write it.

    I hope I didn’t just get someone RPFed over that comment, but anyone still in the SO should be aware that can happen to anyone at any time.

    Interesting idea that it’s a form of (essentially) white mutiny, though. I hadn’t thought of that.

  168. Some great points, Tony.

    No matter how well the church would be reformed, no matter what they did at all, I would never go back.

    Once in the Freezone around those practicing ‘Standard Tech”, you never look back.

    The whole 10 yards of incessant Bullshit are of gone-by Days.

  169. Well, there were people who paid for OT VIII way back when, so when New OT VIII finally came out, it was given the “New” moniker so that the prepayments couldn’t lock in the much, much lower price.

    In other words, it was a scam for more money.

  170. Joe Pendleton

    Confession here about a comment I made re: believing in the LRH “death story.” I just watched the video of the announcement. I wasn’t there that night; found out about it next day. I realized while watching it that truth be known, HAD I been there that night, I would have bought it too. Probably enthusiastically so. It’s only subsequently that I found out about LRH’s years of illness and the fact that he didn’t write a program for a successor. Of course, the fact he did not make an audio announcement or even a written farewell should have been a big tip off (as that was very unlike Ron).

    I’ve never been to the ship. Is Sharron a blonde in her late 50s or so from Northern Californisa? If so, I CSd her as an interning auditor 30 years ago. If same person, I remember her as a high energy, uptone (kind of “uber perky”) and a good auditor too and fun to work with. Any videos of her?

  171. Your humble servant

    “There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s attainment of OT VI & VII.”

    Marty, you are saying that OT IX and X “do not exist.” It appears to me that Ron was saying higher levels do indeed exist, albeit “only in unissued note form.” What about these notes? Surely you are not saying that such notes did not exist at the time of Ron’s writing. What could have become of them? Lost? Destroyed? Hidden? Unknown?
    Certainly, unless we know definitely that such notes were destroyed and cannot be recovered, we cannot say that the higher levels do not exist in at least “unissued note form.”

  172. Two things Publius,

    -Be able to experience anything.

    -Duplication comes before understanding, I suggest you read his post again.

    Just sayin.


  173. Spiritual Enlightenment is not possible inside of CoS.

    In CoS, there is a F/N, an EP, and then the next reg cycle — ad infinitum.

    CoS has never produced an enlightened Spiritual Master and never will.

    CoS produces phenomena, some of which is apparently remarkable. Yet, even remarkable phenomena is just remarkable phenomena and does not ultimately liberate a person.

    In my experience, Scientologists who become spiritually enlightened leave CoS as a function of their own integrity. I have seen this happen many times.

    That so many OT’s need to pursue spiritual and physical healing after leaving CoS is clear evidence: CoS harms and damages people in session.

    There is a F/N, an EP, and then the next reg cycle — ad infinitum. As Tory said, you have to agree to be tortured. Why would a person agree to torture?

    Marty describes the CoS OT experience in a painfully true way: “an at-effect psychotherapy patient addicted by guilt to his or her sessions.”

    DM is offering “Lobotomy by Meter.” Go look at that long enough and you will see that what I am saying is correct.


  174. Tony,

    You two are a shining example of what it means to LIVE your religion, rather than just to belong to one.

    Thanks for the inspiration.

  175. Epic piece of writing,It’s Beautiful. You could demand your SP declare as a badge of honour.

    “You do not become a “dissident” just because you decide one day to take up this most unusual career. You are thrown into it by your personal sense of responsibility, combined with a complex set of external circumstances. You are cast out of the existing structures and placed in a position of conflict with them. It begins as an attempt to do your work well, and ends with being branded an enemy of society.”

    – Vaclav Havel

    You art fully plaing the Game having fun with it.

    “You’ve got to rattle your cage door. You’ve got to let them know that you’re in there, and that you want out. Make noise. Cause trouble. You may not win right away, but you’ll sure have a lot more fun.”

    – Florynce Kennedy

  176. “The beginning of thought is in disagreement — not only with others but also with ourselves.”

    – Eric Hoffer

  177. “Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.”

    Dalai Lama

  178. “We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.”

    Dalai Lama

  179. “Wickedness sucks in the greater part of its own venom, and poisons itself therewith.”

    – Michel de Montaigne

  180. Geir Isene OTVIII thinks he knows what the next three OT levels need to address. Also, other people contributed to the tech not just LRH so I think further levels could be developed.

    Btw, I remember at New Years 2000 event Miscavidge said “there are 8 filing cabinets full of the materials for OT levels 9 – 15”.
    Seems now that these are just auditing notes (if they exist). But, maybe something can be done with them. I also remember Dave sayin “these levels will let you be and do everything LRH ever stated about OT..meaning, yes, that..that..and that”
    Just a recollection that always stuck with me

  181. With all the promises of Stable Exteriorization, Exterior with Full Perceptions, Cause Over Life, etc, If there are OT VIII, Ls comps who still don’t feel that the are not stuck in the body, will not avoid the mid-life implant area and feel they are still slaves to the cycle of birth and death, then WTF in the first place?

    That being said, you’re still kind of blowing my mind with this post and I’m not sure I TOTALLY get how this can be, but I sure as hell want to know more.

  182. Tory Christman

    Thanks, Tony. Here is my very first video Mark Bunker made, 2 weeks after I’d escaped out. It has a message to Mike Rinder in it, too 🙂
    I hope you all enjoy it:


  183. As said, how long till Dave takes to the stage and pretends to channel LRH, like this..

  184. “The dictator is not only a sick man, he is also a cruel opportunist. He sees no value in any other person and feels no gratitude for any help he may have received. He is suspicious and dishonest and believes that his personal ends justify any means he may use to achieve them. Peculiarly enough, every tyrant still searches for some self-justification. Without such a soothing device for his own conscience, he cannot live.

    His attitude toward other people is manipulative; to him, they are merely tools for the advancement of his own interests. He rejects the conception of doubt, of internal contradictions, of man’s inborn ambivalence. He denies the psychological fact that man grows to maturity through groping, through trial and error, through the interplay of contrasting feelings. Because he will not permit himself to grope, to learn through trial and error, the dictator can never become a mature person. But whether he acknowledges them or not, he has internal conflicts, he suffers somewhere from internal confusion. These inner “weaknesses” he tries to repress sternly; if they were to come to the surface, they might interfere with the achievement of his goals. Yet, in the attacks of rage his weakening strength is evident.

    It is because the dictator is afraid, albeit unconsciously, of his own internal contradictions, that he is afraid of the same internal contradictions of his fellow men. He must purge and purge, terrorize and terrorize in order to still his own raging inner drives. He must kill every doubter, destroy every person who makes a mistake, imprison everyone who cannot be proved to be utterly single-minded. In Totalitaria, the latent aggression and savagery in man are cultivate by the dictator to such a degree that they can explode into mass criminal actions shown by Hitler’s persecution of minorities. Utlimately, the country shows a real pathology, an utter dominance of destructive and self-destructive tendencies.”

    RAPE OF THE MIND – Joost A. M. Meerloo

  185. Theo Sismanides

    Tony, 8008 says it all. We, the “SPs” have made a 0 of that MEST Universe Church and are now moving from the 0 of our own universes to an infitity of our own universes.

    Flattening a big button such as an “SP declare” is not a little thing. I can understand you.

  186. Oh, wow … Steve Ganns. Have not heard or thought of him in years. I used to enjoy his company within my circle of friends in LA in the 1980s. I recall several wonderful Thanksgiving dinners where Steve was at the table.

    WH, at some point we’re going to find out we already know each other from back in the day in L.A.

    Just Me

  187. “Disagree and go free.” What a wonderful, wonderful process.

    Tony, you should be very proud of the decisions and actions you and Marie-Joe have taken and continue to take.

    However, you are NOT an SP. I am taking that “SP” label off of you and throwing it on the ground.

    You are a courageous person who has acted in consonance with his own integrity. Integrity is the condition of being incorruptible, complete and honest.

    “A person of integrity!” is the label I am now putting on you. Wear it with pride and self-assurance and the best wishes of the many hundreds of your friends who also have integrity.

    Just Me

  188. A review of “What is Greatness?” might answer your question.

  189. Another George

    Following every comment on this thread (or is it a “threat” to DM) and the various views expressed with great interest, I couldn’t help but be reminded of something LRH said (believe it is on the PDC lecutres, can’t provide the exact reference) in regards to what he did when he hit a stumbling block on his research:

    Throw away any parts one is not totally and completely certain of an go back to and only use those basic-basic data one is sure of worked.

    Well, neither to proof nor to disprove the existence or non-existence of “New OT 9, 10, 11 …” here’s my food for thought:

    The End Phenomena of New OT VII (7) is:


    So, once you are cause you are cause and you can cause or un-cause whatever you want, ’cause you’re cause. It won’t get any more cause-er (basic, that is).

    Your SPHERE of influence and cause can get wider or smaller but if you are cause you still would cause that too, knowingly.

    Wouldn’t be CAUSE OVER LIFE mean being out of the trap? Done. Over. Out.

    And that includes (per LRH) a total independence of Scientology too (same problem, I believe it is in the PDCs but don’t have the reference).

    What do you think?

  190. “Today you are you, that is truer than true.
    There is no one alive who is youer than you.”

    – Dr. Seuss

  191. This leads to another large outpoint.

    Why did we even get the ship? While I admire the organizational skill that went into setting and manning it up all those years ago, can’t for the life of me see why we needed it.

    It has been a pain in the ass more or less from day one.

    So what’s the real reason we got it?


  192. Just Me — re: LA — I had no idea you hailed from LA – somehow I thought you were in the netherlands or hinderlands always 🙂

    Yes — surely we knew each other or perhaps only OF each other. Lots of early LA stories.

    Steve’s a great guy. Naturally — he’s a Texan 🙂


  193. Sharron is a blonde – uber perky and full of energy — 30 years ago — from Northern CA – now in her late 50s.

    Sadly I predict that she’s going to completely crack under this strain of her own lack of integrity. The cognitive dissonance will either create a mental meltdown or serious physical problems (which she has from time to time).

    Perhaps someone could whisper in her ear — Sharron your friends are OUT HERE!! We’ll help you.


  194. “If to be free is the most important goal of all, then to help someone to be or become free must be the most sublime and rewarding of human endeavors.”

    Elie Wiesel
    Nobel Laureate

    Thanks Swift — your posts are informing and helpful.


  195. Mordern-Shaman

    What Dave has’nt taken auditing for last thirteen years and did not get beyond (old) OT7 , how could be preach and brief about the higher levels.

    Why he is not doing New OT levels till OT 8 , what stopping him… or does he believe in what he is preaching/briefing/selling

  196. martyrathbun09

    Great point.

  197. martyrathbun09


  198. I wish I could remember the reference, but LRH says that at some point we will have to audit out Scientology itself. After all, the ultimate truth is a static, and anything to persist must contain a lie. Also, at a certain point on the bridge, a being ought to grow up enough to be able to create his own bridge. And of course no permission from some arbitrary management group would be needed here.

  199. martyrathbun09

    First, you answered you second para questions in your first para, imho.

  200. martyrathbun09

    I think it is all speculation, at the very best, and useless until one has studied and applied honestly all that is available.

  201. Thought Provoking

    The word that comes to mind is stupidity, literally…and that’s a senior church exec? Come join the church and you too can be like me.

  202. martyrathbun09

    Read previous answer to similar question. Many things changed – including numbering of levels by LRH AFTER that comment by LRH. What I am saying – once again – is do what is available. If you do so my position is you will get to a point where the need for the next level won’t exist.

  203. This discussion about Sharron has gotten my attention. I don’t know Sharron at all, but I do understand loyalty to an old friend.

    However, if Sharron is currently doing something like shaming money out of people who are financially endangered and inducing and collecting knowledge reports (written tattletales) about Scientologists who are reading about the Co$ on the Internet and discussing their Co$ experiences with others, I believe (my opinion) she should not be supported in those activities.

    However, when I say or think something like that, I wonder if I’m talking about “disconnection.” Am I saying you /we should disconnect from Sharron? (You see where I’m coming from, don’t you?)

    And the answer is, no, of course I don’t mean her friends should disconnect from her. But not supporting her is different from disconnecting from her.

    It seems to me disconnection offers a convenient way to avoid uncomfortable communication with people who don’t think or believe or act or live as we do. Disconnection prevents an exchange of ideas, a broadening of viewpoints, diplomacy or reconciliation. Put another way, it’s a gutless way to live.

    So we have “disconnection” the way the Church practices it. But there’s also “Disconnection Lite” — the way most of us practice it: She doesn’t think like I do, what she does is dangerous, it’s too uncomfortable a subject to discuss, I won’t bring it up, I’ll just be “social” around her.

    “Disconnection Lite” is what we do when we don’t confront destructive behaviors like alcoholism, physical abuse, texting while driving, hurtful gossiping about co-workers. Those behaviors, just like inducing and collecting KRs about friends and family to show to David Miscavige, are socially uncomfortable subjects for us to discuss.

    And pretty soon, despite the love that was there, we drift away from each other. No more affinity, reality or communication. That’s how old friendships are destroyed — not to mention all the other destruction that occurs because no one could confront even talking about the behavior.

    Just Me

  204. Thought Provoking


    Couldn’t a fraud case be pursued in regards to money being contributed for social betterment activities that only received a fraction if any of that money? That factually the burden of finance was put on public who ran the activity without the IAS funding. The same funding that the public was led believe their IAS contributions were sponsoring for these projects.

  205. Watching Eyes

    re: the ship, Haydn asked, “So what’s the real reason we got it?”

    I’m guessing they bought the ship to create an illusion. That illusion being that there’s something so huge, wonderful, intense, OT etc. etc. that it has to be delivered away from all society. Create a big enough illusion in hopes of masking the fact that OT 8 was a complete and total bust; a non-level if there ever was one.
    Wow the people with the MEST aspect (a ship) and hope they don’t twig on the fact that they were completely & utterly conned.

    In other words, a diversion. That would align with a tone level of 1.1, wouldn’t it?

  206. I think you stated it perfectly ‘Another George’

  207. Haydn — I wrote a long post asking the same question.

    Not only is it a complete pain, it’s beyond costly and absolutely no fun to stay aboard as public for more than 2 weeks tops.

    It’s actually embarrassing as a Church to own this type of fuel burning trophy.

    I’d be interesting in the REAL reason too.


  208. So well stated Karen.

  209. Virgil Samms

    Sure Mark – He’ll just write down some jibberish and say it is OT 9 and then write more jibberish and say it is OT 10. If it goes to trial he’ll send Rayto the ship and anone else in the know to Austrailia. I believe he’s already done this with OT 8’s 5 different versions.

    ML Tom

  210. Thought Provoking

    Great clarity now in seeing where DM sits relative to the theta mest theory. Instead of theta conquering mest he has chosen mest to entrap theta. Great reference!

  211. That really communicates!

  212. Karen#1, Wow what a story and I know there are more lining up behind that one.

  213. Marty,

    Such a mess. A conundrum, carelessly thrown in the park, embarrassing some who see–titillating others.

    Considering that you have trained to Class 12, and considering that you have had access to pretty much any material you wanted while a head honcho in the COS, I can slip into the viewpoint that you are correct that OT9 & 10 will not be coming from the church.

    (I can also adopt the viewpoint that you might have missed something–but that for later.)

    The implication is that by connecting the dots already extant in available material, one would reach the highest levels attainable using the tech provided by LRH. Done correctly, if one were thoroughly trained and audited through all available levels one would reach the highest awareness attainable using Scientology.

    If I remember correctly, the ability gained on OT8 when I was still around had something to do with knowing cause over all 8 dynamics. You know, mock up a Porsche and drive off for a merry trip in the country.

    It may sound as if I’m simply being flip, but that’s only part of it. I’m a proof is in the pudding kind of thetan. When Swami Grup-Grup’s adept tells me he can make trees appear and disappear, I have to say, “Show me.”

    I am from Missouri.

    “Oh, can not show you. That would invalidate my special talents. I am perfect cause and having to show you would admit to being the effect of your wishes, making me imperfect cause, thus unable to cause all the wonderful things which I choose.”

    “Uh, ok, so when have you made trees appear and disappear?”

    “All the time. I’m very powerful.”

    “Great, I’d love to study under Swami Grup-Grup, but I really don’t buy cars without a test drive.”

    “Ah, no problem. Let me demonstrate. Close your eyes.”


    “Now, imagine trees disappearing.”


    “There you go. I watched them disappear when you made it happen.”

    Opening my eyes. “Uh, you witnessed me making trees disappear?”

    “Oh, sure. Very impressive. I have no doubts you will make a wonderful student.”

    “Where did they disappear?”

    “In your imagination.”

    “How about that Oak over there? That’s the one I was imagining going bye-bye.”

    Without bothering to look, “Oh, yes that disappeared also.”

    “It’s still there.”

    “On second thought, maybe you are much too negative of a thinker to accept the teaching of Swami Grup-Grup.”

    Maybe so. I’ll have to live with myself.

    So, do you see my dilemma? I see all this knowledge in Scientology. I’ve seen so many people have gains, wonderful life-changing gains. I see all this possibility in Scientology, but I don’t see it having been realized to the extent promised in the fifties up through today.

    Scientology is an “applied philosophy.”



    Not a matter of belief or speculation. I don’t have to believe that results are attainable. I can experience them.

    And I can speculate. Extrapolate. See where things are heading.

    And, as of now, OT8 does not seem to be the end of the bridge. Not even close. From what I see, reaching OT8 and “connecting all the dots” puts a being at the gateway to another grander bridge.

    Forgive me if I seem to doubt, but I’ll see your bet and raise it another five grand.

    In Missouri, when someone claims he can put a round through a dime at five hundred yards, we take a sip of beer, nod politely, express how impressed we are, then say, “Now Fred, that’s hellified shooting. I’d love to see it. Just so happens I’ve got a Remington 700 tac in the truck. Sighted for two hundred yards, but it’s got a Leupold scope that you can fiddle with. Let’s put a quarter on that fence post across the field. That’s 300 yards, but it’s got a hill that’ll be a backstop so you don’t have to worry about killing someone’s cow.”

    Nothing beyond OT8?


    As Peggy Lee used to sing, “If that’s all there is my friends, then let’s keep dancing. Let’s break out the booze and have a ball.”

    Though, I couldn’t stand Peggy Lee.

    But, I love to dance.

    And have a ball.

    And throw conundrums–the nasty little things. Raincoats in showers, indeed!


  214. martyrathbun09

    I think LRH stated it most truthfully and most eloquently in the despatch that lead to the PL which Vaughn Young edited – and most definitely did not write as he falsely swore to in his over-publized declaration. The fact is, it is our CONSTITUTIONAL (AND HUMAN) RIGHT TO COMMUNICATE OR NOT TO COMMUNICATE WITH WHOMEVER WE CHOOSE.

  215. Virgil Samms

    Haydn – A toy for the Camera Boy.

    ML Tom

  216. martyrathbun09

    Micheal, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, but I do agree with something you wrote, and it is what I was trying to convey:

    “Not a matter of belief or speculation. I don’t have to believe that results are attainable. I can experience them.”

    Do so. To the extent someone wants to believe in IX and X, and XI to XV for that matter, more power to ’em. To the extent someone wants to turn people into financial criminals on the promise of attaining something that I know does not exist (a detailed path left behind by L Ron Hubbard to follow beyond what already exists and is largely available) I’m going to blow the whistle. If the whistle don’t ring true to you, more power to you. I sleep well at nights and thoroughly enjoy each day.

  217. rory Medford

    The comedy show continues, in the end the Independents will be laughing all the way to the bank because slowly but surely the truth about the OT levels, what happened inside the church, how the staff is treated and how the organization is being run

    just a matter of time

    tick tock tick tock

    keep the info flowing people are leaving the flock one by one

  218. Max, I loved it thanks. Nicely written.

  219. Hi Tory.

    Your video @ 11:30 was pretty intense. How can you argue with that. I have to agree, and your confront and TR’s are definitely “in”. You were getting through.

    I think if you would have kept doing that, with ARC like that (maybe you have?) you could fix things singlehandedly.

    I’m not sure I am with you on where youve been since this video, but I am with you at 11 min 30 sec.

  220. I have gained a thorough understanding of organizations, achieved the State of Clear (finally solved only with Marty’s help), had a bunch of my evil purposes dealt with and gained great insight into my fellow man through auditor and C/S training.

    Because of these things I lead a far happier life than I ever thought possible and because of these things I am able to truly love my fellow man. If I were a Christian I now would be a damn good one but I’m probably closer to a Hindu.

    If I only had from LRH what I have right now and received no more, he has gained my eternal respect.

    My only dream is that Scientology, real Scientology, survives in some organized form so that others who wish to partake are able to do so. Not just hold beliefs but engage in Scientology practices and take part in its organizations, whatever they may be, in a climate of fair exchange and with an absence of abuse.

    These, I believe, are the important things. Along with the fact that those running the C of S are conning their members. They’ve sunk the C of S and it’s heading for the sea bed. So I’d like to see this game ended quickly before the forces that exist in the world decide that ANY form of Scientology belongs where the C of M is headed.


  221. DFB,

    One huge and major difference between LRH and Dear Leader is that LRH cared about staff. As already extensively written earlier on this blog the SP rundown as per LRH’s instructions was to be delivered to all staffs first in order to empower them and achieve planetary clearing. He was specific enough to figure out the order to administer the rundown to staff in terms or their organizing boards. Public could do the rundown after staffs got it.

    It was placed as an LRH “strategy” for the entire Int Base and has been for 30 years – to develop and pilot this rundown and get the entire base staff through it, based on the countless LRH notes and advices on the subject starting in the late ’70s.

    Empowering staff is the last thing dear leader wants, as he himself refuses auditing to clean and better himself. I was ordered onto this rundown in ’95 at the Int base, though my next step and something near and dear to my heart was my NOTs which in no uncertain terms I let my auditor and CSes know. Halfway through the pilot rundown and in between sessions, the only auditor (Cl IX) was removed from all auditing lines and reposted as a supervisor for advanced courses. I still don’t know to this day what she did as there was no issue or justice action. The pilot ground to a halt at that time.

    In the mid to late 90s the only cash cow he had was the IAS for direct donations where no service is exchanged but significance such as status is given, similar to the Pope’s indulgences. The Lisa McPherson mess which DM himself had a major role in was creating a lot of bad press and noise as well as expense.

    Thus, Dear Leader turned to his favorite pastime – make money! And the SP project was born, involving hundreds of millions and changing the face of Clearwater. The soliciting of donations did not stop when the target amount needed to be raised was achieved, some years ago. If the building was finished and the rundown piloted and released, this cash cow would run dry!

    Why not sit on it 30 years some more? You know the staff are not going to get it as LRH intended, when you can make tons on public paying for it, the building, the furniture and chair they sit on!

  222. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks everyone for the responses, it really helps.

    Not that I need a license to survive from anyone, but just getting some duplication helps.

    A few years ago I never would have imagined that I was part of group where the “leader” DM had hijacked the philosophy of LRH and would be involoved in such corrupt activities that we hear on a daily basis. I mean this is evil with a capital E.

    Did you know that Ann Pearbottom the Director of Suppressive Affairs of Seattle knew of crimes committed in the Seattle area and hid them from police? Yes, sad but true. I truly believe that she is an SP and she works for the suppressive group called OSA.

  223. One other side to this. I’m not in your shoes, but I really feel you were on to something.

    I think the ARC and not attacking or being enemy like the Anon folks is a key here.

    Personally, I want to reform rather than destroy. When we attack and go into the role of enemy I believe we are not really focusing in on that goal. DM out and the church reformed back to what LRH intended and to what actually beings about the stated goals of Scientology is my goal. It seems like it’s your goal in the video.

  224. Tony DePhillips

    Can you email me at

  225. Note: Superpower is composed of separate individual rundowns and LRH originally named it the Humongous rundown. Each rundown was quite awesome as delivered by my auditor and gave new life and increased theta perceptions – to this day, I don’t understand why she was busted as she was a highly trained and experienced auditor and produced results in my book.

  226. Tony DePhillips

    You crack me up Rory!!

    tick tock, tick tock… LOL!!!


  227. MAXimus Cognitus,
    Damn thoughtfully said.
    I have considered the same thing just as I’m sure others here have.
    It’s really just like many other things in life–we do them for the dream.
    The hunter’s anticipation of the kill while he stalks.
    The artist’s dream of achieving the ultimate effect.
    The architect’s aspiration to build the most athestic and functional building.
    Why not do the same thing with spirituality or religion?
    You just can’t take yourself so seriously; that’s the quickest way to end up on your ass with any of it.

  228. I will give my 2 cents on Vicki and Rick Aznaran.

    Many people had problems with them. They were arrogant for sure and could be mean to people at times. You did not want to be on their bad side.

    My experience with them was different.

    Rick was my Case Supervisor on my OT levels 1-3 when he was the Staff C/S at the FLB. He was a very compassionate C/S for me and the other staff doing our OT levels. When he got to Int, he was in charge of base securty and took it seriously. He got in trouble from time to time. He also handled all of LRH’s and DM’s guns and was a gun expert himself.

    Vicki came to power in Clearwater in CMO CW. She joined the SO at a time when Annie Broeker and Pat Broeker were sent to Clearwater after the previous CO CMO CW Bitty Tompkins was removed for out 2D with DM’s brother Ronnie. (they later married of course).

    Vicki worked closely with Annie and I remember escpecially with Pat. When they went to Int, Vicki’s loyalty was to Annie and Pat and LRH from my observation.

    She did back up DM’s actions and was a yes woman for him at times, but also was independent.

    She was the person who pulled me up to Int to work for her when AVC International was set up and she made me the AVC Aide. She also was the person who recommended me to DM when he needed someone to head the Corporate Liaison Office.

    Her downfall as Marty notes, was that she was on the Annie Broeker side of things in the fight between DM vs Annie and Pat. Therefore she and Jesse Prince had to be taken down.

    I have friends who had only negative experiences with Vicki and Rick and I could see that. My experiences were more positive.

  229. to put the sea back in the sea org

  230. “Outcreating” Hubbard, He had a ship so Slappy wants a prettier ship.

    Some form of penis-envie If you exuse the psychology of that. 😉

  231. Thanks Margaret and Joe,

    It was RJ38. Recordings of Cliff were edited into the original tape as per a script sent down.

    In Feb ’82, LRH wrote a project to get his AV facilities set up at the Int Base. He had a huge amount of professional mixing and recording equipment in storage. It sent a loud signal that he intended to get back to the base to be back “online” and to complete his work.

    The lines were set up and new -state of the art at the time -equipment gotten at the Int Base and this RJ was as a result of the new lines of RAV (LRH audio visual).

    Other than baking breads, cookies and cakes occasionally as the comm lines permitted, I was on standby as LRH personal chef so I did many other things after he went off the lines.

  232. Richard Reed

    à la Jim Morrison:

    OT 9 & 10 – nothing more than pixie dust, sprinkled out there in the distance.
    Can’t you see it?
    David Miscavige.

  233. Tony, could you pm me?


  234. Marty,

    It seems to me that what you are saying (and have said) is that LRH may have left behind “unissued notes” for upper OT levels, but nothing was organized or arranged in such a way that it could be described as “a detailed path” … at least not in the way that the path to and through OT VIII was.

    Is that correct?

    For OT VIII, you believe that the original “New OT VIII” (as originally delivered on the ship) is the closest to LRH’s intention for the followup to Solo NOTs (VII)? Correct?

    What I’m hearing is that basically, Broeker was “wishing on a dream” that he could develop levels OT IX and X from these “unissued notes” — announced it to the world before the fact — and you, Miscavige (and others?) lost confidence that he could deliver.

  235. Wow- this is mind boggling.

    Someone I know who use to reg at Flag told me some stories that validate yours. It is not an uncommon for regges to outright LIE to the public to get their donations- IAS, books, etc. They invent stories playing the unsuspecting public. Its a common and accepted practice. Miscavige takes it to a new height though. Lying and perpetuating the lies about non existent OT levels -OMG! Is this why the St Hill size game was dropped? There were no such OT levels.

  236. Felicitas Foster

    I guess I missed the survey – where can I do it?

  237. ΘTater/Gary


    Absolutely hilarious!! Out of the mouth of babes.


  238. martyrathbun09


  239. And that is why OT 8’s are invalidated in the curch, thet are too close to finding out whatever I might think about the concept the invalidation stands. “Fresh meat” or “Zombified people” are easier to “handle”.

    If there would really be something like Satan , DM comes real close.

  240. Not sure where this fits exactly so I’m posting it on it’s own but it ties in with the posts that are aghast about no OT IX, X, and those that are upset and/or make less of Sharron and others “because they are supposed to be OTs” …

    Here’s what I learned early on as a Scientologist. That’s beginning in 1972 — a persons post, their training OR processing level is no REASON to 1) marry them 2) invest money with them 3) believe them 4) follow what they say as gospel …

    People change ON A DIME — ie — can plummet down the tone scale and some get stuck there — so the happy uptoned guy you married is now a complete smuck :),for example.

    OR — you invested $$ due to the latest greatest Scientology run business and it goes belly up. Why? Because the guy might be nice enough but he couldn’t put together a lemonade stand as a child – and still can’t.

    People bring to scientology their case — billions of years old and beyond. Much gets handled. Much doesn’t yet —

    Eventually it will IF the person persists on a workable honest path of LRH’s … or another workable applied path (like Tao, Buddhism etc).

    And for my money — I think we should cut those still IN the church some slack — if I’m not mistaken many of you here on this board were IN – not that long ago — as in a few years … and you changed 🙂


  241. martyrathbun09

    Mark, while there were some road bumps, closer to my experience too. All that noise about the personal out ethics was not even a blip on the radar screen compared to DM’s. He used it – quite calculatingly – to black PR them to the crew; because at the time he could not say why he really busted Vicki and Jesse. There was on reason and one reason alone, they followed their LRH-appointed senior, the Inspector General Annie Broeker over DM, who was COB ASI.

  242. martyrathbun09

    Well stated truths Sinar.

  243. Marty, I am in total agreement with your position. There appears to be this on going search for something . I have seen what some people put out for others to follow and I think to myself…WTF was that!

  244. As for cutting people IN the church slack — I agree that no one should SUPPORT Sharron while she continues to pander for dm … or anyone else.

    Non-support is different. It’s actually VERY kind to NOT support her while she harms others through her actions.

    (kinda the basis for disconnection I would say — non support to someone who is harming others)


  245. Your humble servant


    From what we are hearing, your auditor was busted BECAUSE she was a highly trained and experienced auditor who produced results. A psychopath suppressive person can’t have that, can he? He can only have auditors who accept prior reads, call ARC Break needles as F/Ns, make parishioners guilty of their overts, and produce results that are “a bit off” and subject to future problems and relapses.

    From what we are reading, have not hundreds of competent, skilled, hard working, and well meaning people been abused, hunted, persecuted, trashed, kicked out, and declared to be suppressive persons?

  246. Mark,

    DM put Rick Aznaran as the IC on the ’82 Renos at the Int Base and totally black PRed him as the TM as originally set between them was 6 weeks which was a complete impossibility by any standards.

    The entire base was on this day and night, securing for a couple of hours after 2-3 days straight of physical work and having to be woken up by Rick’s MAA to start it again.

    Rick and his MAA had an out 2D and was sent separately to Pac and Flag RPFs later, as I recall.

    I used to take care of LRH’s guns and turned them over to him when I went off on project in ’83 mostly off the base.

    Rick was put on as Security I/C at the Creston Ranch after LRH left, we drove up together and arrived early in the morning after LRH passed. We were there until DM started shutting down Pat’s operations in ’87. The Aznarans left around the time DM re-organized RTC to put himself on as COB as I recall. Most of the guys brought back from Creston at the time got busted to Estates Gold including yours truly.

  247. Dear FOS, Kris and Deirdre,

    Thank you so much for the data on Kay Rowe and John Woodruff. It is so wonderful to have such a community to find people and find out what happened to them. Very enlightening.
    Much Love, LM

  248. Virgil Samms

    After reading all of this I have formulated what I think is going on:

    OT VIII = basterdized by DM and made untenable, possibly 5 “versions”. I was told we only delivered a portion of it. At any rate, from everythng I read, it appears to be screwed up.

    OT VII = cause over life. Nice place to be. I want to be cause over life. If you are OT VII you should be cause over life (Life is Understanding).

    OT IX = Marty says it does not exist in C of S. DM, Broeker say it does. LRH says it does.

    OT X – DM, LRH says it exists. Marty says it does not exist in C of S. Broeker shows worksheet from an LRH session on OT X that has a long, long date on it. Nothing like this on existing OT sections.

    Existing OT Sections 4-7 not used and not planned on being used. Yet, looking these over, if one did them one would be VERY OT indeed.

    I see that finishing SOLO NOTS would be end of negative case gain, in other words end of the Walls of Fire. But no OT drills done to this point. So it is not visibly possible how someone could be at cause over life without OT drills.

    It appears to me that in order to be “Cause Over Life” one would have t0 do Ye Olde OT IV-VII where you have real, honest-to-God, OT-Maker drills. Then you cap it all off with the REAL OT VIII and you would have a being who is cause over MEST Life, Tought, Form and Event.

    Who cares about anything after that? Christo – if a thetan was in this good of shape there will not be any problem. And if we were turning these off 20 per day as a start, this planet would come way, way uptone.

    Did Broeker tell the truth about OT VIII, IX and X? Does he have OT VIII – OT X in his posession? DM thought so. It is possible he ran off with them and that’s why he’s hiding.

    When DM is safely behind bars, I believe Pat will think it’s safe and will show up.

    Pat if you read this you actally need to speak up now.

    ML Tom

    To me it doesn’t matter that

  249. Haydn,

    Was working for Pat/DM and have not seen anything in writing about the ship, but recall a crossflow from Pat that the old man intended that the level be delivered on a ship and offshore where no one could mess with the delivery taking place and it was away from any enturbulation caused by any governments or bad boys.

    Don’t have anything in concrete on it.

  250. Dear Karen,

    Thank you so much for relaying this data. In earlier research on the internet, what you are describing appeared to be the case. I found people communicating about OT 8 and their descriptions seemed vastly different. It became apparent there were different versions of OT 8. I had no idea there were so many. Above, you appear to have discussed four different versions. Is there any data that the first one was really the one LRH intended to release, and if so, was it complete? There have been comments on this blog about only half of it being released, but I don’t know if they were talking about the original LRH version, or not.

    I am wondering if the true and correct LRH OT 8 was ever released in it’s entirety. Any data would be appreciated.

    Also, Karen, if you are sponsoring a forum where these OT 8’s are able to compare notes, then this is very much appreciated. For those not receiving the LRH intended “version”, it is a huge betrayal to those completing OT VII, thinking they were receiving the real OT VIII. The non LRH versions of OT VIII could be a very accurate “why” of OT’s getting sick, dying, tragic accidents that I have heard about.

    I did not answer your comment earlier, but I think you are correct in that if the correct technology were being correctly delivered, there would be no question of Scientologists remaining loyal to the Church. Situations as posted above about the tech, make it a very dangerous proposition to get any auditing of any kind at all from the “official” Church. Actually, it is scary, and for many, it has apparently been life-threatening, or worse, fatal.

    Thanks for all you are doing.
    Love, Lady Minn

  251. Thanks Marty and Sinar,

    Sinar, you brought back memories I had forgotten. I remember now those renos of the Star of California and the crazy schedule. I had just arrived to the base for the first time that summer.

    One thing I remember is that Rick A had a keg of beer at lunchtime for everyone doing renos and it was nice on a 115 degree day!

    I didn’t know that you handled the guns before. Thanks for filling me in.

    I was responsible for sending all the people up to Creston after LRH died at DM’s order. They needed personel now and it was my job to get them there. I was proud at the time that I got it done, but felt bad later on after Pat and Annie were busted and all the people I sent to the Ranch were put into Estates. I thought they went to the RPF for a short time as well.

    Marty, you are right about the level of out ethics is an ant hill in comparison to DM’s.

  252. The Church uses the term “literally” when they actually mean “figuratively, fancifully or hyperbolically.” It’s a very consistent usage in speeches. At one point I put together a glossary so one can understand their speeches and e-mails:

  253. Thanks Marty.

    Forgot to mention that DM got the pilot rundown delivered to the Feshbachs for a million apiece, in ’95. Matt shilled it in an article on the St Pete Times in ’06 if you hadn’t seen it.

    Perhaps this was the initial idea for it to become one of DM’s cash cows and beginning of the SP Project in Clearwater.

    YHS: Yes, but I guess my auditor’s a hard core Kool Aid drinker as in the 2000’s she endured and finished a stint in the Pac RFP for 8-9 years and is still in as far as I know.

  254. English is her native tongue. She is from So. California, and has a high school education. I agree that this e-mail is very poorly written, sounds like it was done in haste and not proof read. Off the topic, but does anyone know if she has ever been in the RPF?

  255. Vent away Tony.
    You are more than justified in doing so and You are with friends.

  256. Tony ~~

    I am compiling a compendium of “Church” crimes and covered up crimes.

    Also Dirty OSA Tricks, applying OSA Network Series #15.

    Anyone want the Interrogatory on DM crimes?
    just put out by former Senior HAS PAC Lisa Hamilton ? Email me

  257. In my opinion, DM didn’t need to black PR Vicki and Rick to the Gold crew. Any one living at the base could see for themselves how those two operated and form their own opinions. If they were forwarding what LRH and Annie as the Inspector General wanted done, then it was based off false reports from VA or others that she was forwarding up lines as to what was going on. Many of the orders coming down from LRH and Annie during that time period were totally contary to how he operated in the earlier days and contary to policy but being used to overide policy and abuse staff.

    These two people do not deserve to be defended on this board for what they did during their time of power.

  258. Sharron is from Southern California, but got into Scientology in the mid 1970″s at the Berkeley Mission. She was super high energy, nearly always upbeat, and a very talented artist. There were lots of interesting folks at that mission in those days, including Reed and Mary Jo Slatkin, and Dan Jacobs, Comm Course Sup. If Sharron were to leave the church, she would possibly face disconnection from her only child who is still very much in, so far as I know.

  259. Tory Christman

    Thank you, dfb99 🙂

    I’ve told OSA since I was “in”, and certainly
    since I was out: YOU are C R E A T I N G
    your own enemies. They continue to do so, to this day, more than ever before.
    And I honestly believe a team of 5 year old’s could figure out the solutions they need, if given the task.

    I agree ARC is the most effective, and was taught by my Dad this lesson, far before Scientology. However, Anonymous has been an incredible help to all of us, whether you recognize it, or not. (granted, agreed, *some* are over the top—and those I am not for, but many peacefully picket and have done and excellent job of exposing C of $’s many abuses)

    I think one of the biggest errors DM and gang have done, and I try not to slip into the same mistake—is generalizing. Hubbard said, “Generalities are NOT true”…and ya know what? They are not. He was right on that one, spot on.

    My best to you 🙂

  260. Yeah Linda, covering the costs of a ship has been a problem of long duration.

    In conversations with Mike Napier in the past, he’s mentioned some pretty outrageous costs in docking fees and just anchoring in ports, aside from having to buy fuel, food, water and dump their garbage & waste.

    All those conventions, case debugs and OT hatting courses were offered as services in order to pay for their expenses. I imagine that the release of the Basics and ACCs also cut into the Freewinds GI from delivering OT hatting courses.

  261. Maybe you are right. Its handy to be able to float around in Internatonal waters

  262. Yesterday morning I was at a local shopping mall enjoying the sun, the flowers and the pretty girls, nine hundred miles from any thoughts about the church.

    Suddenly I found myself face-to-face with our local OTVIII OT Committee Chairwoman.

    She knows I’ve been out for a year but that I’m still in good standing (remarkably). She and I have always gotten along very very well.

    I stayed totally relaxed. She ridged and kept looking at her feet. I had zero intention of “enturbulating” her at all and didn’t.

    She tried to sell me on how beautiful our new org is. How we have 170 on staff now (I’d love to get the list of names for proof of this, but….).

    I just had this particular gentle thought going the whole time as I so easily confronted the thetan before me as it wobbled in the body uneasily. The thought was simply this:

    I have the truth.

    I later wondered why I’ve been pulling in several of these encounters lately. Aside from the obvious geographic factors, it suddenly hit me…….THEY are pulling ME in.

    I can’t tell you all how wonderful it felt to stand tall at that moment. In the church, you are basically taught to propitiate and cowar a bit before the mighty and pure VIII’s.


  263. Kudos to Marty for allowing a measure of open discussion on this blog. Unfortunately the Church of Scientology trains its members to viciously and personally attack anyone who questions anything about Scientology, rather than rationally discussing their beliefs and why they believe them. In my opinion, this hampers their ability to converse with others about their religion. If someone disagrees or questions what they say, they will just attack. Not good. They will even take a renowned and award-winning scholar and author like Karen Armstrong and try to position her with ” mythologists, ‘religious scholars’, ganja weed smokers and peyote chewers.” I love the quote marks around the words “religious scholar.” Please, Publius, don’t reflexively attack when someone presents an opinion different from yours. How about reading their opinions, understanding them, and then responding with your own ideas and thoughts on the matter – rather than an ad hominem attack?

  264. martyrathbun09



    Marty, isn’t it strange, that the head of a religious organisation , which believes in human potiential next to GOD, resort to use physical abuse to his subordinates.

    And Why, none of the high ups including yourself, Mike Render , Debbie Cook, Herber J and last but not the least DM couldn’t reach OT 8.


  266. martyrathbun09

    Great observation Jeff.

  267. You still entertain a simmer of hope. Do you know what is up with all these other names ?

    -Scientology library: “Patrick D. “Pat” Broeker (aka Mike Mitchell)”-

  268. “Every generalization is dangerous, especially this one.”

    – Mark Twain

  269. Synthia

    You have perhaps just answered a big question for me : How are staff being paid anything with the pathetic level of delivery at most orgs these past many months?

    Dm has created a second income-generating machine inside delivery orgs; what looks on the outside like a c of s is really a “donation-generating” installation, exchanging nothing with the public who support it, but able to continue sucking in that free money because the staff who make the calls and do the regging are
    given some pittance amount out of the public’s ill-gotten money.

    Dm has found a way to make himself wealthy not only without exchanging anything of value himself, but by creating an environment in which staff have no time or opportunity to do their actual posts, he removes any possibility that ANY exchange will take place.

    The more clearly I understand this operation that miscavige has created, the more of a criminal racket I see.

  270. Felicitas — you can find it on Steve’s site: Scientology-cult.

  271. Hello there my friend!

    I feel for what you are going thru. The same actions continue in Los Angeles against myself. The DSA Pasa Eden Stein, heading the “campaign” and soliciting help from a number of my previous “friends”. It can be unnerving, I know, but there is a degree of humor in it too. Seems that we are such powerful OTs that it takes a whole team effort to convince others of our “suppressiveness”. It’s actually quite funny the amount of effort being put into turning our friends against us. I don’t even put a lot of significance on any of it…soon the whole thing is going to implode…ya know?

    You’re doing great and I admire your courage. You made the right decision despite the VERY temporary loss of friends…and look at all the new ones you made!!

    If you ever want to visit, please let me know.


  272. Mark — This aligns with my eperience. Vicki came into the CMO when I did and was my junior (Ops Chf) from 79 through 81. Rick was way better as a C/S than a Security Officer! There are always two sides — I know there are people who’s experience with me in the SO was unhappy, others who were the opposite. But the fact remains, Vicki’s true crime was refusal to follow DM over Annie. And she was right. As LRH says, you gotta be right on the big ones, and that was certainly a big one. Though she was right it ended her participation in Scientology… Mike

  273. Marty, do you know what Pat Broeker held up at the LRH death announcement? It looked like session notes. A single “date” that was a paragraph long. He said LRH had opened up areas of the track that were almost unimaginably long ago. I thought thats why IX is called Orders of Magnitude.

  274. Thanks Sinar.

    I think its the fact that OT 8 was messed with plus DM’s out-tech thrown into the mix as covered on this and other blogs. I’ve run into OT8s and they aint no kind of product.

    So the problem is not the ship itself but the fact that it couldn’t deliver anything truly worthwhile so became a source of endless trouble and dev-t and got in everyone’s hair, not to mention the fact that it is crim regging HQ and has been for many years (IAS).


  275. martyrathbun09

    You know as well as I do. My opinion, a TOTAL IMPLANT. To give the idea that after OT VII, an OT is going to direct himself to dates like this is so far OPPOSITE the direction of OT VIII and the way out; it couldn’t be more polar opposite. Ok – for the idiots hoping Pat Broeker is going to come save them – he was drinking up to a case of beer a day when this video was shot.

  276. He doesnt look healthy. He looks like he could be hung-over.

    DM looks really sleazy in these videos. His eyes are shifty and his mannerisms speak volumes (to me anyway).

  277. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Bobo,
    I don’t have any way of PMing you. Feel free to email me and I will respond.

  278. Cat Daddy, While at Creston, we all had to use
    akas (also known as). Pat was Mike Mitchell,
    Annie was Lisa Mitchell and LRH was Jack
    Farnsworth. I was Joe Carpenter.

  279. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks for all you are doing Karen.

    You da master blaster!!

  280. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Sherry.

    I agree with everything you said. I never knew how powerful I was until the “church” started to grant me so much power!! I apparently have the power to totally destroy them single handedly. I am so evil they have to “save” everyone from me. LOL!! It is amazing to me how the “church” HAS to MAKE ENEMIES!! That actually seems to be one of their VFP’s. As you say, I think their dog and pony show will only be running a bit longer.

    We will have to come and visit you all down in Portland soon.

  281. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Sam!!
    Back atcha.

  282. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Fu Dog.

    I feel the same about anyone here trying to sort out this trap. I am sure we will meet sometime and have some good times. I personally have been booming since getting out of this trap and getting at the cause side of things.

    Have a great weekend!

  283. Tony DePhillips

    Tory, you have major guts.

    I can recall when I would have thought you were a raving SP. Now I understand you. I watched about half of that video and couldn’t stomach anymore. These people are so brainwashed they cannot think for themselves anymore. This seems to be another of their VFP’s: # of people who can’t think for their self.

    You are an expert communicator. What you said in the tape is true. Scientology is all about communication and they are afraid to communicate about their own group and what they are doing that is wrong.

    Tic tock, tick tock….


  284. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks cool Cat.

  285. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Foremost,
    Thanks for the comm. Just curious, if you are out of the church and doing well in the freezone how come you don’t use your real name? Not that it is that big of a deal. I was just wondering if you still have Scientologists around you that you are trying to protect.

  286. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Lunamoth.

    Coming from a writer like you, I will take it as a win.

  287. Tory Christman

    Hey! That’s *my* saying, I’ve been saying to
    Davey boy for many years now.
    It began, due to OSA doing black ops on me.

    I realized at the time, there were only about 4 people willing to speak out to the media—so I took a lot of S***t. Then I began posting to DM:
    You can RUN but you Cannot hide (from Karma)
    Tick Tock, Tick tock, Time is on *our* side!

    A bit of a history lesson, for those who missed this:

    I said that because at the time, even though there were only a few people who would say their names—-I KNEW *tons* who were out.
    Also, I knew just per Karma, you can screw people (as he/DM was) ….but eventually, it’ll come back to you.

    So I began telling Davey boy that, on-line. I didn’t know if he’d ever read it, I doubted it—but it felt good to remind him, and others, that time IS on our side! Those were fighting days for those who were there, you’ll remember it wasn’t easy, it wasn’t fun, but one thing I KNEW from being “in” C o $: OSA is filled with liars, and per LRH –they were violating the very tech they got into Scientology for.

    By the action of trying to cancel this newsgroup, ARS, OSA had created “The critics”. These were mostly computer geeks and just free speech advocates –people in the 90’s who were never “in” the “church” of Scientology, or using Scientology, at all.

    When OSA tried to cancel ARS (the only newsgroup at the time, posting facts they didn’t want known)—-DM and OSA went nuts, tried to enter a “Cancel” command—and in came the Free Speech Advocates! aka: “The Critics”. As I saw it, their view was: “We don’t know *anything* about Scientology, but these people have a right to speak freely”. So “Not on my watch” became my motto for the critics, and they became people who DID have our backs.

    These people, for years, did research, created Web sites, picketed, helped people get out, along with those Scientologists who had left “the church”. Granted, OSA ops infiltrated, and thus created great upsets amongst people…but they were and remain like mosquitoes: irritating, but a little “OFF” keeps them noted and inefficient at harming others.

    Due to the running of black ops on myself and others (Tons of lies written on the Net, physical harm to my car and house, posting my name and phone # on a porn site –which was reported to the police, and traced to the computer of the exact person’s computer who had written literally years of lies about me: “Truthseeker”, etc) —-I had been telling Davey boy—Karma WILL get you, and no doubt it will be in a way that you least expect.

    So when Tom Cruise was leaping up and down on Oprah’s Couch, and then yelling at Matt Lower, “You don’t know the source of Psychiatry, I DO” and putting down Brook Shields for medication she took after having a baby, I went “Bingo!” I knew Karma had hit.

    Sure enough, my phone rang off the hook with media calling, and I did interviews morning, afternoon and night, all while working. CNN, InSide Edition, Rolling Stone Magazine, German TV, interviews for magazines (NewTimesLA was my very first one), and tons of radio stations all over the world–it was quite a time!

    Move forward to 2008—-someone leaked Tom Cruise’s video onto the Net, where he states: “You’re either “in” or you’re “out”. Did OSA Learn from the 90’s and what a disaster their actions had created then? Hell no.

    Between this some excellent posters had left
    the “church” and were posting over on OCMB message board, telling deep stories about Gold Base, and DM. We knew them only as “Blownforgood” and “BTs2Free” and a few other nicks, but still no one would say who they were.

    After this Tom Cruise video leaked, once again, OSA ordered that video off of YouTube.
    Along came a spider……..a non group of posters on the Net, who were only known amongst each other with anonymous nicks, and they were now ticked off.
    Who are YOU, “church” of $cientology, to try to tell YouTube what can and cannot be put on YouTube? These folks, these thousands of nameless people, weren’t going to take that sitting down. Whether for “LOL’s”–(and although you may not see the “fun” in their actions, some of them did) or because they truly cared…. off they went.

    There’s way more to it, re these folks….but let it suffice to say we, (Mark Bunker and I and a few others) said: IF OSA just leaves these folks alone, we figured they’d be gone in a matter of days/weeks at the most. However, IF OSA acted as they *usually* do—-we could count on a wild ride. Sure enough, we decided to have a peaceful picket, which ended up with 9,000 people in just about every major city in the world, in Feb of 2008. It was A M A Z I N G.

    Overnight, people who had been around, suddenly felt safe enough to come out. It’s my view that “There’s safety in numbers”…and that’s what helped break the 4th wall, so to speak.

    Blownforgood announced he was Marc Headly,
    BTs2Free? John Peeler. On and on—people who had never picketed arrived each month to picket. Nancy Many, over the next 2 years, wrote her book: MyBillionYearContract.

    Larry Brennan arrived, Jeff Hawkins—MARTY RATHBUN AND MIKE RINDER! I remember when the news spread that *maybe* they had left.

    Really? No way! Really? YES WAY.
    No way, YES WAY! Can it be?? CAN IT BE???

    Exciting times for every single person who has ever taken time or even hoped that the abuses of the organization known as the “church” of Scientology would be exposed—-these people, along with the critics, along with the Scientologists who had left, and those never to return, along with families who had been broken up for years, some now re-connected thanks to all of these people—people getting FREE, really truly free of the chains of gigantic WRONG INDICATIONS….to all of you I say
    “Thank you!”

    Bless each one of you and may you continue to have the courage to take a stand, to take time to care, to take time to share, to offer one hand out to someone who just may get free by your very gentle gesture.

    “I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.
    Nelson Mandela”

    Thank you all for your help in making it possible for people to conquer such fears, take back their own lives, and live freely and with great joy.

    I love you all………..and I thank you greatly,


  288. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Penny!

    I have always enjoyed you and your sister. I like having tough thetans on my side.

    Talk to you soon.

  289. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Synthia,

    Thanks for the kind words.

    How have things been going for you since “coming out”?

  290. Holy cow! I’m really looking forward to the bigger picture being written up, Marty. As obviously this has been a big carrot for some time.

    I remember receiving a telex from RTC (which in and of itself was odd due to it being off-origin) when the Exteriorization and the Phenomena of Space lectures were being released.

    In a nutshell the telex said these lectures were vital OT hatting as they were the only place where LRH teaches how to audit while exterior. And that this skill would be needed after OT VIII on up the rest of the grade chart.

    The telex went on to further describe OT IX & X as being similar to OT VI & VII. The first being a course, the second the actual audited level.

    Having this “inside information” was titillating to say the least. And it fueled a lot of staff activity for quite some time. It’s disheartening to hear there is no OT IX &/or X and that we’ve just been being led on all these years.

    It’s looking more and more like Capt. Bill Robertson’s data is valid…

  291. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Very well said Eileen!

    Every church Scientologist is unaware they are PTS to the flaming SP … David Miscavage.

    Their PTSness blindsides their ability to look clearly at the situation, or even look at it at all.

    Even Marty and Mike were PTS to DM. Now that they spotted the SP (DM, of course), and “disconnected” from that suppressive force, look at Marty’s and Mike’s POWER now!

    I promise any church scientologist reading this blog, that you will be amazed how empowered you will be once you’ve spotted the true SP in the Church of Scientology, and, of course, properly applied the right ethics condition formula.

    You’ll finally be free of a major cause of suppression in your life, I promise.

  292. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    (Note: Perhaps I should have said “nearly” every church member scientologist within CoS is PTS to David Miscavage. Because, of course, there could be some insider “super OT” working to get ethics in from within. However, I seriously doubt this is possible anymore without getting declared because the church senior management ethics situation has deteriorated so badly.)

  293. Why “idiots”? Isn’t he just another piece of the puzzle? I don’t know enough about him to have much of an opinion — I mean the church doesn’t really allow us to speak of such things; and they certainly don’t document them.

    Similarly, when it comes to David Mayo — it was if his name were Voldemort and we should instead say, “He who should not be named”.

    From what I can tell, he got the shaft and didn’t toe the line. And that the very few people that were the go-between of LRH and the rest of the world, seem to be some of the most insidiously destructive people at the top.

    I guess I’m fine on being an idiot if that means I don’t have the full history of the church but assume that if DM didn’t like someone so badly and went on an all-out war against them to wrest the reigns of the church from them — there might be something there to look at…

  294. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    “If they could only confront some divergent views all of this could have been prevented”

    Man, I hear you!

    Apparently, a lot of people flunked TR O.

    Had every church staff and scientologist been required to do hard TR’s, perhaps all this suppressive insanity within the church would never have happened.

    It’s become so ever vividly clear to me that the ability to confront true evil is an extremely high OT ability.

    I commend you and everybody else here for your high confront! I’m seriously proud of you all, and am happy to call you my friends.

  295. martyrathbun09

    Idiots because they think someone other than themselves is going to need to appear to set themselves free. Do the bridge and learn all along the way in myriad ways how you are the only one who can set you free. If one has much familiarity with the subject, and any OT case gain to speak of, and is looking for someone to come along and splain it to him, still he is an idiot (and that is putting it mild).

  296. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    So true Marty.

    In fact, as an American, our founding fathers knew in the 1700’s that communicating or not to whomever we choose is a God-given or natural UNALIENABLE Right, besides being a constitutionally protected Right for every American.

    That David Miscavage doesn’t respect this Right is truly unAmerican!

    Then again, no SP I know from anywhere respects anybody’s native Individual Rights whatsever. It’s just the nature of an SP.

  297. Eileen Clark

    I think Marty is trying to tell us something.
    It serves him no good purpose to say those upper levels do not exist, if in fact they do. He is merely stating something and it goes against all that we have thought/believed/trusted about the upper OT Levels. He is the messenger, let’s not “shoot” him merely because it shakes stable datums. Truth sets us free. If it is truth then it will be seen to be true. If not, then, OMG, Marty’s not perfect.
    What will become of us now?


  298. Marty,

    I’m just trying to stir up a little shit, a little cognitive dissonance, just to see where the thinking here goes.

    I see needing the next OT level to handle a person’s case as a form of “needing to have before you can do.” But, it’s goes a step further to needing to have before you can be. A person is as OT as he/she takes responsibility for his/her own case and life. KRC.

    Doing OT levels and not taking responsibility is just self-cancelling. You have to learn; you have to know; you have to take control.

    As Hayden pointed out, the gains that you validly make are remarkable enough in and of themselves. Even if nothing higher might exist or not. Hell, just to become a well and happy human being is pretty remarkable if honestly attained–and that comes at Life Repair.

    Regardless of where LRH stopped his research and provided levels on the bridge, there is more to life beyond that. Doesn’t matter how high he went or how far he reached.

    So, does one sit around pining for the next level to be released? Or does one simply enjoy the day, take responsibility for life, and learn as much as possible without being dependent on LRH?

    I just don’t think LRH wanted to produce a bunch of spiritual slaves dependent on him and his thinking. He provided a path to attain spiritual enlightenment, but no matter how enlightened you might become, you can always become more enlightened.

    Certainly, we want to keep Scientology working so that others can walk that path as intended. But the subject of life goes beyond the entirety of Ron’s research. If he were still here, he would still be researching and finding new stuff.

    The real test is results. Can it be done? Discussions are fun, but words are not reality.

    I appreciate your efforts and the information you provide, but I reserve the right to question. Hell, I question myself continuously.

    And still sleep well.

    To question isn’t the same as to insult, though the insecure believe it is.

    We all know that there’s more beyond the church’s version of OT8. We mostly hoped that LRH had provided those levels with detailed instructions and technology. To know that the church does not have those levels certainly undercuts their authority and leverage.

    But, I do know that much of that higher level material is simply sitting in front of our noses, left behind in the fifties. Even the NOTs stuff was sitting there if you “connect the dots.”

    But, one must find the dots first.

    And then understand the order of connection. What goes with what? In what order and importance?

    So, what you write actually is a form of providing dots for the rest of us. And though you connect the dots in a certain way, I am going to test those connections to see if I come up with the same results.

    To simply buy everything you write or reject everything you write would be foolish on my part. I don’t do that with myself. I don’t do that with LRH. I don’t do that with anyone.

    But I certainly do appreciate your willingness to communicate and take responsibility for what you know–and to share it with us. You’ve made a great difference in a lot of lives. I certainly wouldn’t be willing to put up with the bullshit that comes your way.


  299. Tory Christman

    M: (“and that is putting it mild)”ly—

    T: ***very*** mildly—to say the least.

  300. Tony DePhillips

    Sorry Tory,

    I attributed cause to the wrong person!!
    You are a kick ass woman!!

    Tick tock, tick tock….LOL!!

  301. Well, I think at this point we’re getting into semantics. I’m not in any way thinking someone’s going to just arrive and “make me free”. But I don’t think that was the sentiment of either of our comments.

    I was replying to the statement, “Ok – for the idiots hoping Pat Broeker is going to come save them – he was drinking up to a case of beer a day when this video was shot.”

    I didn’t think you meant “save” as in a biblical sense. 🙂

    I assumed by “save”, you meant, “take over as head of the church and run things the way they use to be pre-DM.” or something along those lines. (Actually, I haven’t really thought much about Broeker as I have very little data on him.)

    I guess what I’m really getting at is you have data others don’t have. I have data you don’t have. To consider either of us “idiots” on a subject due to the lack of the others’ data might not be the best conclusion…

  302. Nice writeup, Tony.

    It really is interesting how even at the local level the church follows the bizarre cycle of 1) Enforce a policy to an ad absurdum level, 2) Attack a parishioner because of their unwillingness to unthinkingly apply said policy, 3) Declare parishioner an enemy (by action, inaction or direct declare), 4) Continue to create more of an enemy status by adding fuel to the fire.

    What’s most bizarre is that the DSAs/EOs/MAAs can’t observe this. It’s like they’re cleaning a clean but have no observational power whatsoever that they’re the ones that CREATED

  303. Pingback: Do You Believe in Magic? « Leaving Scientology

  304. Oooops…

    …CREATED the dirty needle in the first place. And they can’t observe that every attempt of theirs to clean the thing only results in a continued dirty needle! Instead they just nod wisely and mutter, “Yup, it’s overts & withholds…”

  305. Pingback: Top Posts —

  306. If OT IX and X existed, they would make CoS a huge amount of money. The fact that DM has never offered them supports the argument that they do not exist in any coherent form that can be delivered.

    Although DM has used IAS to raise a gigantic amount of money for the Super Power Rundowns, those Rundowns are still not available.

    Tragedy and comedy are often closely associated in life. Hence, the literary term “tragicomedy” was born of necessity. Even when things are very bad and falling apart, humor has never disappointed the human race:


  307. I had heard this too, but let it not be forgotten that the ship was needed as a base for the IAS so it could operate outside the US and fill its coffers since the IRS would not be able to get to it. OT VIII had originally been promised to the FSO who worked hard to reach 5.4X so they could be the delivery org for OT VIII and instead their hard work went unacknowledged with the purchase of the ship. The setting up of the freewinds was a major upset with the FSO.

    While on the subject of the IAS, let it be known that they are actually a suppressive group and are an external influence on all SO and Scn orgs and missions through their actions of regging the public for donations.

    From 1968 when I first started working directly with LRH as one of the first Commodores Messengers until the day he died, I NEVER saw him support donations. If an org wasn’t making money, the solution from LRH was to make them deliver. His standard response to orgs not doing well was to deliver, as income will follow delivery.

    LRH pushed for book sales and delivery (mostly training). I ran many messages concerning GI stat pushes to get them knocked out and saw many telexes and ethics actions on those that pushed GI instead of delivery.

    The IAS regges being in the orgs and even the Execs and crew pushing IAS donations is CRIMINAL and against all LRH policy on geting the orgs to deliver Scn in order to make money. Even bake sales were not allowed to help make money to cover basic bills as that is not Scn. All income was to be made from the selling of services or books – it was considered by LRH to be out exchange for a service was not delivered in exchange for money.

    After the GO was raided by the FBI and the GO execs including MSH, needed to raise money to pay for their legal expenses, LRH was steaming mad when he found out the Safe Enviroment Fund (SEF) was in the orgs trying to get donations for these people as that is not what Scn is about. Donations were forbidden. Orgs were and should still be expected to make money by delivering Scn services and the IAS shouldn’t even be anywhere near an org. That they are a distraction to the SO and Scn orgs delivering Scn, they are committing suppressive acts.

  308. Namaste.

  309. I love the video Torry! You rock!!!

    I’ve watched several of your other videos. You crack me up but also gave me lots of food for thought. Thank you!


  310. Thanks for the “history lesson” 🙂

    So glad you’re staying in comm!

  311. Marty thank you for keeping keeping the lights on 🙂

    Big hugs to you & beautiful Mosey!

  312. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    Excellent advice! 🙂

    A Cleared cannibal is still a cannibal. Sharron’s concept of out-ethics will not save her.

    Contributing to the overts and withholds of those that are staying in the CofS does not constitute survival for the planet, or any other dynamic.

    Your honor and integrity are the only things you carry with you on the whole time track that governs your sanity, compassion and self-survival. Everything else is MEST. We’re not MEST, Sharron!



  313. Tory Christman

    Thank you! Really? There was a time when you thought I was a major SP? Thankfully, now you know me. I understand being 3P’d to death—I just picketed tonight and faced a bunch of Sea Org at Celebrity Center LA for their Gala Event. Some of the things they said to me were pathetic—but I was able to point out major outpoints to them. Time shall tell if any of it sinks in, but I’m all for planting seeds.

    So far, my garden grows daily, and this makes me very happy! You are correct about their new VFP’s, and isn’t that sick?

    When I picket, I get to see them live, and talk with them. They try their usual bs with me, and happily, I know their game. (Magoo waives to OSA ops: remember when you got into Scientology? Is this *honestly* what you Ops thought you’d be doing 20-30 years later? THIS IS IT?)

    Thank you for your kind words, Tony.
    I greatly appreciate your views.

    Tick Tock, Tick Tock…..

  314. Tory Christman

    LOL…….Tony, thank you!

    I just wanted you to know the history behind the statement–as I think it’s quite important.

    Obviously the more people that use it, the better!
    My view is by the nature of how bad off the “church” is since Davey boy took over, I know the more people are going to leave. Also, by the nature of how he HAS to keep harming families and people with abuses, the more people are going to continue to help expose the very abuses he is doing, and thus the more people are going to leave.
    THUS :::: tick tock, Tick tock, Time *IS*
    on our side!!!

    Have a *great* week-end, Tony and all 🙂

  315. Tory Christman

    Great quote, Cat Daddy!


  316. A case of beer per day? Halleluja, I would be clinically dead, gee

  317. But Haydn,

    be not so hard. After all, they brought down the Berlin Wall!!

    BTW: wonderful new article of Jeff to the topic on his site.

  318. Tory,

    thanks for that history lesson! It answered a lot of questions I had.

    Tick Tock Tick Tock – that’s exactly the way it goes. Inexorably. Inevitably.

    You are a brilliant woman!

    Best, Fidelio

  319. Janis,

    the ship – a safe base for the crim regging IAS! That makes sense…

  320. Felicitas Foster

    What does POI stand for?

  321. martyrathbun09

    person of integrity – from the comment I was commenting on.

  322. Karen,

    Years ago, when I first got into Scn, Yvonne Jentzsch was on tour and came to the mission I was at. This is circa 1975 or so.

    I remember it being said by several staff, that Yvonne had done OT8, presumably as a reward for being a stellar Sea Org member, or perhaps to pilot this level.

    This was pre-NOTs. Do you know what happened to this version of OT 8, or if it is the same?

  323. Felicitas Foster


  324. So, what ever happened to the OT VIII that R announced in ’82? It was supposed to “handle amnesia on the whole track.” The “OT VII” being delivered now doesn’t do that. Also, contrary to what one posted above, it is DIFFERENT and separate from OT VII (Solo Nots) and not a possible achievement of OT 7.

    Contrary data. Both cannot be true…

  325. I think people are hoping that LRH wasn’t lying in the audio tape where he described the length of time it takes on the actual upper OT levels (not OTI-VII). Looks not to be the case however…

  326. Tory Christman


    You are most welcome! Thank you for taking
    the time to read it, and get it.

    I am far from a brilliant woman, and I’m the first to say so, even though I appreciate your kind words. A “kick ass woman”–that I can totally agree with. 🙂

    Freetothink:: Isn’t it amazing what a little communication will do. When I was waking up, I made (by myself–having nothing to do with the “church” or OSA) 4,000 posts in 4 weeks.

    To give you an idea of how much one person can help another, during that time, even *I* didn’t know I was waking up. I was posting furiously all day and all night. Most of the critics had decided “Magoo is FOS” and few would talk to me. I *nearly* closed my computer and would have remained “in” for God knows how long—except for 1 person.

    For those who know my story, yes, Andreas was the person who ended up being the straw that broke the camels back–but this was even before I’d met him, on-line. There was one guy, a Swede named Sten Arnie, and he would answer *every* single post I made. Those one line comments kept me in the game.

    So you never know how much your one communication just *may* truly help change someone’s entire life. And that, my friends,
    is why I say all the time: Thank you to ALL
    who have helped me on this journey towards true freedom. 🙂

  327. Hi Tony.

    Just curious, if you are out of the church and doing well in the freezone

    I’m doing exceptionally well, in any and all imaginable spheres of life.

    how come you don’t use your real name?

    I have never ever published my real name on any message board, and never will. Immaterial.
    Since I merely post some data and my opinions, they, not me, are up for consideration. Further, I am also in the process of completing some cycles, and so its best I remain merely a User Name.

    I was just wondering if you still have Scientologists around you that you are trying to protect.

    I have never protected any Scientologist for any reason whatsoever.



  328. Tory Christman

    Good point, Eileen!

    I mentioned this to some Independent Scios a few weeks ago, re LRH. I asked *anyone* at the table IF they could ~honestly~ say they had never done *anything* wrong. I looked at each person in the eyes, including one of their 27 year old daughters.

    She burst out laughing. I reminded her it isn’t just her, either, as *everyone* has stuff they’ve done. I learned that as a Security Checker, Sec Checking some top executives at Flag, and just people in general.

    Then I pointed out: As long as people try to keep L. Ron Hubbard in an all white box labeled “Perfect”—you shall lose. He would have been the first to say so, too.

    As my Mother-in-law (now x-and now passed on, may she RIP or rock around the clock with the angels–more her style)said about LRH:
    “He was a rascal!” She knew him from 1950 and had the greatest stories to tell about him.

    We are people, on planet Earth, surviving together, granted some better than others, but all in basically the same boat. To the degree any of us expects perfection, we all lose, imnsho.

    Does that mean we should allow criminality, lies, fraud? No-it doesn’t. However, there is a happy medium, and that I believe to the degree each of us works towards that, towards taking responsibility for ourselves and those around us, whether we agree or not, we shall all do better.
    This includes listening to others who we may very much disagree with. As Yvonne Jenstch said re “SP”s: “How are we ~ever~ going to get them back in, if we don’t at least take them out to lunch and talk with them?”

    More communication, not less, even if it ruffles our feathers sometimes. You never know when one of those people doing the ruffling just *may* help change your life, forever. Also, if your feathers are never ruffled, who needs a comb? 🙂

  329. Tory Christman

    Thank you, Marie-Joe!~

    So happy they’ve helped, and made you laugh 🙂

    That’s an excellent combo. You are most welcome! Thanks for your kind words.

    My Best, Tory/Magoo

  330. Yes, the numbering was changed. However, the supposed higher levels from IX – XV have names and phenomena, such as “Orders of Magnitude”, “Character”, “Operating”, “Future”, etc. Since they seem not to be part of, or incorporated into any other action on the bridge, then we can surmise they either exist, have existed, or were fabricated at one time or another. Unless I’m mistaken, the Grade Chart featuring the levels all the way through OT-15 was already in existence while LRH was still alive. I would be surprised if he never knew about it.

    Don’t get me wrong here, if you feel I’m trying to make a case for either point. Speculations are a dime a dozen.

    I fully understand, we are not going to see the next OT level until its either released, or been admitted to that it does not exist. And if Saint Hill sized Orgs will remain a requirement for their release, then yes, we can safely assume it will never be released in the foreseeable future.

  331. Your humble servant


    Would you be willing to post your e-mail address? I would like to send you an e-mail.

    Either way, thanks for your posts!

  332. he was drinking up to a case of beer a day when this video was shot.

    Yea, he does look like AA material.

  333. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    “I see that finishing SOLO NOTS would be end of negative case gain, in other words end of the Walls of Fire. But no OT drills done to this point. So it is not visibly possible how someone could be at cause over life without OT drills.

    It appears to me that in order to be “Cause Over Life” one would have t0 do Ye Olde OT IV-VII where you have real, honest-to-God, OT-Maker drills. Then you cap it all off with the REAL OT VIII and you would have a being who is cause over MEST Life, Tought, Form and Event.”

    I agree with you. Doing the Original OT-IV thru OT-VII then NOTs and then OT-VIII does bring wonderful abilities. But what needs to be included for those OT-Drills (which the Original IV-VII OT levels do give), is the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. Doing it on OT-V is I believe the perfect point to do it and is necessary to gain the proper OT Hatting (as it is a hat write-up for OTs) and enhances tremendously one’s OT abilities. You have to know what you are and what you can do as an Operating Thetan. That’s why LRH went through all of the trouble to codify Scientology.

    Knowing How to Know.

    Gary 🙂

  334. Tory Christman

    Hope that helps :_)


  335. Tory Christman

    Sweet, Cowboy Poet!

    Max—thank you for all of that. I enjoyed
    reading it–very nicely written, and excellent
    food for thought.

  336. Tory Christman

    ROTFLOL! She nailed that one, perfectly 🙂


  337. Alexis de Tocqueville

    I hate to come off as some kind of grammarian or something, but sheesh — she couldn’t get somebody to proofread this? She’s got KTL under her belt, if memory serves, and English is not her 2nd language:

    “As the Ambassador Ship for Top Command and you are an OT Ambassador I need to go over a specific Ship target we have been given that is crucial to achieve as it means New OT IX and X coming closer for all. I know you understand what I am saying.”

    And the ‘I am expecting you to assist your OT base!’ reads like a propaganda poster from the days of the Gang of Four.

  338. Elizabeth Hamre; Is this the Louise Hamre of AOLA MAA in the 90’s?

  339. It’s even deeper than our Constituaional and Unalienable Right. It’s right there in the Code of Honor:

    “Never give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it.”

  340. The inverse is also true: “always give or receive communication if you yourself desire it.”

    If only that inverse were also in the Code of Honor, then enforced disconnection would be against the Code of Honor. Which it should be.

  341. Re: assisting the OT base, a meme from the turn of the century, similar grammar:

  342. To: ANN HOWE No, I am older model. I never been on staff. Best to you. Erzsebet.[in hungarian]

  343. Pingback: Ingen OT IX och X? « Hubbardianen

  344. Dierdre: “If only that inverse were also in the Code of Honor,…”

    Dierdre, the inverse is already in there. By having both “give” and “receive”, it doesn’t matter whether “never” is used or “always” is used. The more important part, imho, is the “if you yourself desire it”. This ensures that the giving and/or receiving of communication is always self-determined.

  345. Margaret, I’m going to disagree.

    “Never give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it” means something completely different than “Always give or receive communication if you yourself desire it.”

    If the inverse I propose were added to the Code of Honor, disconnection would be more directly a Code of Honor violation. It’s already indirectly a violation with “Never compromise with your own reality,” but I know people who have rationalized that they were inhibiting communication, not reality, and thus disconnection was okay. That makes no sense to me, though.

  346. Dierdre,

    To me, having both would be a bit like using the phrase “straight up and vertical” … it’s redundant.

    But I do know what you mean. Saying it each way (i.e. “always” and “never”) would certainly make both flows abundently clear.

  347. I don’t understand, Marty. LRH stated that these upper levels were already developed and in unissued note form as far back as 1973, per

    “Any difficulties people were having with going Clear were handled in the mid ‘60s and OT levels as they exist in Advanced Orgs were completed by ‘68. There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s full attainment of OT VI & VII.”
    Can you explain?

  348. Pingback: Die Karotten OT 9 und 10 | kommrein

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