Ayatollah Miscavige and Radical Scientology

We are living in interesting times.  The western media has created a branch of Islam called “radical Islam.” It is a means to take the actions of some blood-thirsty, violent radicals and position them as somehow influenced or caused by a religion practiced by upwards of a billion peace loving humans many of whom happen to inhabit land sitting atop earth’s currently most valuable natural resource, oil.

The term is convenient because it tends to appease the billion peaceful ones, while at the same time satiating the oil-thirsty appetites of hundreds of millions of westerners living high off Middle Eastern oil. After hearing out well-financed propaganda from both sides of the spectrum, we’ve got this idea developing that those religious organizations in “established”, wealthy and conservative settings need not be feared. What ought to be feared are “cells” of  “radicals” putting into practice a literal and “fundamental” interpretation of the Koran.

It is against this backdrop that the Church of Scientology has spent hundreds of millions to position itself as the conservative, do-gooder, PTS to the middle class, traditional, mom and pops “church.”  They also spend tens of millions annually to position those with the intelligence and courage to point out that that is all a facade as “radicals” clinging to “fundamental” (and “background”, or “no longer used”) data to practice Scientology outside of the corrupt golden domes.

And the sheep – overlooking the fact that the workable philosophy the whole religion was predicated upon was largely jettisoned to attain this desired image –  remain apparently comfortable. In fact, they are carefully and fearfully hiding that deep inside they are actually dying  slow, agonizing deaths.

I am pointing this out so that the intelligent and courageous ones don’t ever get duped by this billion dollar op being run by Miscavige.

Fact of the matter is, Miscavige operates the Church of Scientology very much as an Ayatollah runs “radical Islam” sects.

Think about it.

The Ayatollah implants his followers with the notion that Mohammad’s most radical individual statements against enemies he faced or perceived some 1500 years ago must be used to destroy imagined evil in present time. Infidels are defined as any and all not following arbitrary Ayatollah law, and the unfaithful as those who provide any succor or comfort to them. Miscavige likewise has implanted in his flock that “squirrels”, “disaffecteds”, “mental health professionals”, and non-compliant or non-sympathetic “wogs” must be conquered and that anyone who even communicates with them, let alone agrees or provides aid or comfort, is inherently evil (Suppressive Person); and therefore must be depowered and destroyed.

The Ayatollah preaches the idea that infidels, if not first converted or destroyed, will destroy Islam.  Therefore, “jihad” or Holy War against the infidels is a religious obligation.

Miscavige preaches the idea that earth’s population is intent on destroying Scientology and the planet if not first converted or destroyed. Therefore, unlimited payments are required to the IAS “war chest” as a religious obligation.

The Ayatollah keeps populaces in fear and under control by ruthlessly exposing individuals regularly for their personal sins. For example, the public stoning of an adultress. Miscavige keeps his sheep in line by regularly selecting individuals for public pillorying. While he is smart enough to make the public ones done without physical violence, behind his walls he metes out the worst kind of physical torture and violence. The operations and results are the same, the populace kept in a state of terror.

Which leads us to terrorism. Terrorism is defined at Your Dictionary.com as: “the act of terrorizing; use of force or threats to demoralize,  intimidate, and subjugate, esp. such use as a political weapon or policy”.

While some could, and some undoubtedly will, say I’ve gone too far in using the T word – some close Persian friends, some of whom practice Scientology and some of whom never heard of it, tell me otherwise. 

These friends lived under the Ayatollah Khomeini, and fled to the West to start new lives mid-life (an experience reminiscent of so many former SO members). They have told me that the most powerful incentive to become “demoralized, intimidated, and subjugated” was the threat of the group pressure of being ostracized for stepping outside the rules of the Ayatollah.

Practically speaking it was far more effective in keeping people acting as sheep than the periodic stonings, floggings, and bombings they read about or witnessed.

Miscavige uses SP declares and enforced disconnection in the very same manner as the Ayatollah dictates ostracizing; to punish the flow of information and terrorize people from thinking, reading and communicating freely.

And to top it off the Ayatollah dictates all politics by manipulating a straw dog president to run the government the way he wants it run.  Of course, DM told Tom Cruise to his face he thought George Bush would be the perfect Ayatollah expeditor for himself – because he would use martial law to enforce DM’s dictates. Regardless of how delusional the idea, please examine the intention and compare it to the Iranian Ayatollah-run system.

Miscavige does not overtly preach physical Holy War. But he certainly cleverly convinces his minions they must support one that includes eradicating certain classes of people.

Miscavige does not have innocents murdered spectacularly to instill terror in the populace. But, he certainly covertly brings more subtle ruination to lives, families and even religious organizations instilling a palpable terror in the hearts and minds of innocents.

Miscavige does not utterly control government officials, but you can take it to the bank that he is spending millions as we speak in an attempt to.

 The main difference between Miscavige and an Ayatollah is that the latter is more uptone. You gotta be firmly fixed at 1.5 (Anger) to be an Ayatollah. You gotta wear your intentions on your turban. Don’t let the fact that Miscavige is a died-in-the-wool 1.1 (covert hostility) fool you.

 And know, “By their actions you shall know them, whether good or bad, whether on another’s side or ours. And what in their actions gives us the keenest insight. Their ability to help.” (LRH, HCOB 28 May 1960)

 And know that irrespective of how much money Miscavige spends in forwarding the misconception that independents are akin to radicals, it is his church that constitutes Radical Scientology. It is his church that instills in minions the attitude, ”by any means necessary”. It is his church that creates the mind set that to kill one – regardless of injustice – is periodically necessary to bring the masses to toe the white line. It is his church that says individuals, families and societies are expendable in the quest of its own survival. And last but not least, do not forget it is Miscavige who continues to make his followers act in criminal fashion on the promise of the land of milk and honey and unlimited virgins. That is done while invalidating and crushing every being who makes it and recognizes he or she doesn’t need or want milk, honey or virgins.

 The Church of Scientology as run by David Miscavige constitutes Radical Scientology. 

 We represent Scientology.


136 responses to “Ayatollah Miscavige and Radical Scientology

  1. Whew — well this certainly makes it easier when commenting — no more
    quote marks around church, no more saying DMs church etc.

    Just simple – RA – Radical Scientology.

    Good call.


  2. Watching Eyes

    Radical Scientology! Wow, that’s exactly what the “church” has become. Exactly. What a brilliant analysis.

    Well, if an Ayatollah wears his intentions on his turban at 1.5, where would the 1.1 dwarf wear his? Hmm, his muscle tee’s? His tanning thong?

  3. Happy Ramadam.
    I was having very similiar thoughts today after talking to my dear muslim friend, who will fast even though this heat is so bad I hope he doesn’t fall over for lack of water.

    And comparing all these elements, how they are being projected, implanted, hard and soft into the populace. Again what we see is things turned upside down, flipped.

    And Marty, thank you so much for writing this with such clarity… you’re wonderful.

  4. Brilliant~spot on Perfect!

  5. The CofM Service Facsimile that kept me sufficiently separated from the real world is the one that says I’m Holier Than Thou. Exactly what David Miscavage wants. And exactly what Grade IV handles. But as planned, it’s doubtful anybody gets Grade IV anymore, not for real.

  6. Ne Obliviscaris

    Ironic. “RS” is now an abbreviation for DM’s church?

    Amazing how the actions of the church dovetail so neatly with TPTB’s agenda for the United States and the world.

    Obviously, it’s our turn in the barrel. Radical Scientology is just another experience model for SP’s to use.

    Thanks, Dave. Good job. You fucking coward. You haven’t got enough balls to use the vast resources at your disposal to help others. That’s what a real man would do. That’s what a true leader would do.

    LRH admitted that when he made mistakes, he had to eat crow. But you can’t do that can you? Because you don’t make mistakes. You’re the “Pope” of Scientology right?

    How about it Dave? Have you made any mistakes?

    No glib answers now, OK?


  7. “ayatollah you so”

  8. TheEmperorIsNaked

    The similarities are well worth calling out. It is a group dramatization played out over and over. How do we shake this puppy?

    I like the term Radical Scn. It is very apt. I also liked your Black Dianetics or Reverse Scn labels earlier. They are equally good. You just know DM reads LRH issues and reverses them.

  9. Greetings to my fellow infidels….
    Personally, I think DM is too short to be an Ayatollah. Perhaps a towel boy in a Turkish bath is more his speed.

    The more I realize who and what DM is, the more I can look back and enjoy the fact that I aint no “jihadi” no mo’.


  10. There is NO EXCHANCE in dm´s “church”. Solution: Donations and fund raising. Result: A bunch of CRIMINALS.

  11. Virgil Samms

    When I posted PTS to the Middle Class some months ago I pointed out the control mechanism which is the old “Heaven and Hell control mechanism that all despots use. Hitler used his prison camps or if he labled your ass as a Jew, you were toast. All his SS had to do was investigate you and you were gone. So you had to HATE Jews and everyone else besides Nazis. Same with Mussilini.

    It is the same mechanism that Saddam Hussein used in Iraq to control his minions. He ran then ragged. Gassed them if they did not behave.

    It is called a Reign of Terror. The only power that any SP has, whether you consider them powerful or not, is the power to restimulate. Keeping the masses in terror is how it is done. Hence you have terrorists like Hansuli Stahli or Marion Pouw, or OSAI collectively. They use declare and disconnection to keep the current parishoners in line.

    A friend of mine had just gotten on OT 7 this year and told us that she was told that if she got onto Marty’s website she would not be allowed to do her OT sections for the rest of her life. What cowards these people are to run a terror campaign like that. Its like telling little children that they will grow warts on their faces if they read smut.

    But once you apply the ol’ “disagreer” the shackles come right off and you see the mecanism. Thank Gawd I was born with my disagreer in tact and in good working order. I’ve used it quite a bit when I see things that control me. All Ihave to do is disagree with being controlled and I am no longer being controlled.

    So lurkers, get out your disagreer, dust it off and point it at the C of M and turn it on. It will work great for you. The shackles will come right off and you will be free. Free in the sunshine with the rest of us.

    ML Tom

  12. I watched the Church I belonged to become shadowy organization vulturing money for no exchange while becoming more and more ABUSIVE with drachonian punishments meted out unheard of in a civilized society.

    The dirty tricks of the cult of Miscavige are unimaginable…and this from a 501c3 tax exempt organization…….no accounting of monies and an abundance to DESTROY the enemy.

    Almost unlimited monetary resources at this time continue to flood in from the high rollers drinking the Koolaid in spite of wide internet exposure.

    Imagine Dm and Tommy Davis GLOATING over the recent summary judgement when such gross abuse is admitted and is on record. Anyone can can have court win heck, Larry Flynt, publisher of very extreme PORN won in the Supreme court on the 1st amendment. So even a porn spewing publisher can get a win on the first amendment….

    Some non Scientology friends of mine intently watching this all roll out on the Internet have often called DM’s regime TALIBAN Scientology

    I like that phrase as well. TALIBAN Scientology

  13. rory Medford

    One by One the flock leaves radical scientology

    It all comes down to observing, looking and really taking notice that the group you once knew (LRH’s Church) is vastly different and very 1.1

    Its very UNFUN to be part of this radical group and thats why sooooooo many people are leaving and going INDEPENDENT!!!

  14. rory Medford

    Even the true believers and the hard core are starting to ask questions

    and as they do not get the right answers they to will leave the church

    they will eventually make the decision they do not want to be part of this group

    its happening EVERYDAY in every mission, Class 5 Org as well as the Sea Org and Advanced Orgs where people are waking up and leaving

  15. Very true, Marty. Thank you.
    Ayatollah Miscavige’s spoke person, Tommy Davis, reminds me of Ahmadinejad (the president of Iran). They both are stupid robots.

  16. Marty
    Thank you for the huge amount of time and effort it takes to put together this and many other illuminating pieces of information in such a way that it clearly defines what it is exactly we’re dealing with.
    This blows charge always.
    The parallels are undeniable.
    That you care enough to share your knowledge and experience in a way that can be fully duplicated is invaluable and very much appreciated.

  17. Great analysis Marty.

    Another interesting parallel: the internet is bringing the truth to those under the influence of these regimes and positive change is occurring.

    I met a woman from Iran last year who told me of the strong movement there to liberate the country, and how many Iranians (particularly the younger generation) disagree with Islam now due to strong ties with the “outside” via the internet. The culture there is changing and people are becoming free of the oppression.

    As for Scientology, just today I received the following e-mail from someone on-lines:

    “I officially told a couple Scientologists that I wasn’t interested in Scn anymore (at least through the church, but I didn’t say that). I know how you feel about people coming out and declaring independence, but with keeping this job, I’m just quietly withdrawing. Just saying “not interested anymore” has seemed to work surprisingly well. No one has tried to do a big cycle to try to recover me so far, which surprises me.

    This has become a common theme – no attempts to recover those who withdraw their allegiance and support of the “church.” This is quite in contrast with the operating basis we all know well and which many of us had to deal with.

    It’s an indication of the epidemic spreading through church rosters. More and more public have woken up to what they have been supporting and want no part of it, whether they publicly leave or not. The truth doesn’t wash off, so no repair list or squirrel sec check will recover these people. And such lack of attempt to handle them indicates tacit AGREEMENT even by those still claiming their support.

    The church is dead. The philosophy lives on, and is bringing brightness to lives of many. I just ended session on my pc Jeff who had a persistent F/N and a big win, room brighter and looking “different”, with a huge smile and laughter. That’s what real Scientology is about and it’s why many of us read this blog. It’s because we want people to get real Scientology, and not be subjected to radical Scientology inside the church that ruins lives, families and bank accounts.

    Anyone who studies the technology and applies it skillfully with good heart finds it helps man communicate, solve his problems, become a more social being, makes it unnecessary for him to continue to excuse his failures with more failures and frees him as a spiritual being.

    The sun never sets on Scientology, but it has on radical Scientology and this despicable cult which has run a can’t have on the real gains available, ruined lives and cut theta lines between loved ones.

    Thanks again Marty for your efforts. Namaste.

  18. Lack of ability cannot be compensated by force. But this is a wonderful OT trap. And: One cannot handle or solve every problem. Especially not alone. Another very effective OT trap. I have seen pre OTs running into those traps. First, they find out that they have regained power. (Force) Then they find out that much can be accomplished by using force. That makes them kind of “only one that can handle it”.
    I know that trap myself.

  19. The Ayatollah of Radical Scientology. ARS. Needs an “e” at the end and it would be perfect.

  20. Holy cow, now we are talking business!!!
    Marty go, go, go, thanks again for taking the stand!! Fidelio

  21. Nicely put I have to say , Gosh Its hard to actually beleive one was in this church and this is the current state its in.

  22. Tara,
    That Service Computation, variously phrased, is the fixed idea/’stable datum in a confusion’, that is behind the ridge that keeps Scientology from being what it really is: genuine, effective compassion.

    Somewhere along the line, the Auditor’s Code point of not being sympathetic but effective has been taken as being in No Sympathy and that cuts the line to being effective.

    “Sympathy” also connotes, and means directly, establishing a ‘similarity’, a requisite R, a communication line at a comparable wavelength to someone you wish to have ARC with. It has also a ‘low scale mockery’, the tone of sympathy where one is validating being effect.

    You cannot hope to be effective in raising a person’s condition unless you actually understand it and assist them to understand it. That understanding is composed of A, R and C. Service Facsimiles barrier that. The one you’ve expressed is such a barrier.

  23. Ne,
    I’ve mentioned before, my father told me when DM declared me, smashed my marriage, incarcerated my wife for two years, cut my lines and assigned me to the ‘never to ever, ever, never do the OT levels’ list: ‘Jim, there’s nothing more dangerous than a wounded tiger.’

    He has ‘wounded’ many, many tigers. They are healing. They are coming back. That’s a lot of mistakes on DM’s part. I think he might be more aware of that today. He is more aware of just how dangerous these wounded tigers are.
    Or not, cause he’s pretty thick.

  24. Yes! Excellent analogy.
    By comparing 3rd Dynamics, an individual can become more aware. Deceptions are difficult to see when a person is buried by them.

    An excellent online documentary is this film “The New American Century” by Massimo Mazzucco. It helps to raise awareness.

    “PTS to the Middle Class” – Here is the link to Virgil Samms’s article which includes LRH quotes.

  25. Independent Scientologist

    There’s an interesting flip side to Radical Scientology. You have so many Scientologists around the tone level of fear who aren’t doing much of anything, radical or otherwise. Except donate money they don’t really have!

    Before exiting the church, I couldn’t help but notice how all of the OT VII’s and OT VIII’s that I know were all so quiet, backed–off and non-controversial. Maybe a better word would be “restrained.”

    Then I came across this passage in Milestone One about the Hubbard Chart of Attitude: “There are two more which ought to be on that chart. There ought to be a column which starts at the top with “win” and goes down to “lose,” and another one which goes through “freedom” at the top down to “restraint,” and below that the complete restraint of death. Death is complete loss, complete restraint – complete restraint is death.”

    So it’s to0 bad that we have to label the current CofS as “Radical Scientology.”

    I think I would rather have that label applied to the unrestrained, free-wheeling, straight-ahead Independents!

  26. Amazing how the actions of the church dovetail so neatly with TPTB’s agenda for the United States and the world. –Ne Obliviscaris TPTB = “The Powers That Be” refers to any group that holds power over a certain entity.

    You said it well!

    By encouraging members of the CoM to LOOK at other 3rd Dynamics and their deceptions, it will help to raise awareness regarding the CoM 3-D aberrations.
    For example: When a person realizes that America has been hijacked, then it is much easier to realize that the Church of Scientology has been hijacked.

    “LOOK”. … getting people to look can be tough.
    Repeatedly, naturally asking “What do you really see?” can sure raise awareness. (Ex. – the video on my name asks this Q)

  27. IF the independent movement continues with the open heart and mind that appears on this blog and others, then Radical Scientology will be shunned by all but the very insane.

    Disconnection used as punishment = RS
    Crush regging = RS
    Parishioners spending +110% of their income on RS = RS
    Holier than Thou attitude = RS
    Idle Orgs = RS
    Regging at funerals = RS
    Corporeal punishment = RS
    Three swing FNs = RS
    Lack of acknowledgement of staff and slave labor = RS
    Forced abortions = RS

    Within a few years – no more than a few decades, RS will have disappeared. Terrorists and charlatans have a short life span.

    Again – thanks Marty.


  28. (Sorry — this is REALLY long but Marty got me thinking (yet again) 🙂

    Just last night I was reading a book on Dzogchen — the highest form of Buddhist thought.

    The author, a renowned buddhist meditation master said that MANY if not MOST of the lamas and practitioners in Tibet were charlatans – prior to the communist invasion.

    WOW. Sound familiar?

    Radical Buddhism – who would have thunk it. But, it’s true and one can see the effects of that scourge on the country. The communist invasion in 1956.

    The inner darkness of those who were entrusted by the population to uphold the words of the Buddha enabled an outside force to destroy the country. (“as above so below – as within so without”)

    Several Buddhist teachers I have heard, have spoken about the necessity to have a depth and breadth of understanding of Buddhism brought about by 1) deep practice 2) intense study 3) community and 4) being an embodiment of the teachings.

    Without the above – in a hundred years or so – buddhism will be relegated to just a few self-help tools when in fact it is much more. (meditate to relieve stress for example)

    Sound familiar?

    While it is no longer my path directly – Scientology to exist into the future must be practiced by 1) daily study (Jim Logan is a great example)(Tom and Linda are opening an academy in LA)(home study is great too), 2) receiving auditing (there are now probably hundreds of non RS auditors) and 3) community (independent blogs and reunions for starters 4) being an embodiment of the works of LRH.

    The wonderful thing about a wisdom tradition (of which LRHs philosophy is a part) is that because it is based on truth – it does survive. Although the going can be REALLY rough.

    The communist invasion of Tibet – was horrific (murdering 1.6 Tibetans and destroying all but 6 of the 6,000 monasteries) and forced many to flee. Including REAL lamas who then came to the West and brought buddhism.

    Not unlike the REAL Sea Org members who were forced to flee — Marty, Mike, Steve, Jim Logan, Karen DelaCarriere, Nancy Many Tom Martiniano and Linda and many many more.

    We should never stop exposing the abuses currently extant within RS.

    But, we must also move forward with our own experience of LRHs tech and understand it perhaps now with a depth that wasn’t available when it seemed so easy for the taking.


  29. I don’t have the author handy on this one, but it’s very close if not an exact quote; Your thoughts become your words, your words become your actions, your actions become your habits, and your habits become your character.

    As for an individual, so for a group. Radical Scientology is a brilliant call, Marty. It’s certainly extremist and getting more so as the pressures increase on DM and from him.

  30. Joe Pendleton

    Interesting you say that Tara. My core service fac found way back in 1974 or so was “I am more worthy than you are.” Well, at least we know that that is an abberative computation, so we don’t have to dramatize it any more.

  31. Joe Pendleton

    Uhm……do we always have to choose virgins when we get up there? I’m just asking!!!!

  32. Miscavige is, perhaps, a reincarnated North Korean official from the 1950s.
    See link:


    “Every org a Peace Village”.

  33. In this case Marty, I do not agree with a commonly used description of Islam i.e.; “a religion practiced by upwards of a billion PEACE loving humans”. would have to challenge the use of the world PEACE and ask how do we really know this? Has anyone surveyed all of them? What are the sources used to make such a statement? Is this an extrapolation made from a small sample? All I know myself is that those societies that are dominated by Islam are antipathetic to free speech, to freedom of religion, to non believers, to human rights of women, gays and minorities, and most of all the road to freedom. And they dish out their version of Justice with medieval barbarism most often at the hands of savage street mobs. Don’t mean to undermine the main point of your posting in regards to DM but the use of Peace loving humans associated with that faith is at the very least highly questionable.

  34. Great article Marty, rings utterly true.

    Once you step out of the bubble it is hard to understand how those still in it accept DM’s implication that under the guise of the “end justifies the means”, he has to smash the individual, family and groups in order to “save” the individual, family and groups. It just doesn’t pass inspection because it’s an insane computation.

    But I guess if DM get’s you to buy into the computation you no longer inspect that area. That’s part of the deal.


  35. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, like the anatomy of a service facsimile; as Tara wisely pointed out.

  36. Virgil Samms

    And John, let it be said right here that you are a real Scientologist who is out there applying the tech, getting pcs through programs and making the planet a little saner by doing just that. Excellent on the PFN!

    My hat is off to you Sir!

    ML Tom

  37. Read the Koran — read Rumi — read Sufi thought.

    None of these are what the world now thinks is Islam. WHY?

    Because dictators, charlatans, have co-opted Islam.

    Not unlike what miscavige has done and has followed suit in Class V orgs, AO, the Ship etc. They follow the despotic leader.

    Aberration IS contagious — isn’t that a well known datum?

    BUT sanity is permanent — insanity is temporary (Chogyam Trunpa Rinpoche).


  38. Sam, I said it before but the man is a real Wizard!

  39. FreeToaster,

    I lived for 14 years in a town in England with hundreds of thousands of Moslems. They ARE a peace loving people.

    A tiny number of radicals (IRA) bombed pubs in that town killing many people but that doesn’t change the fact that the large Irish population there are also peace loving (and fun loving for that matter).

    I hope you are not buying into the long standing anti-moslem hype from a section of the USA media that has it’s own agenda.


  40. Service Facsimile.

    A mental image picture the PC (Preclear or patient) uses to make himself or herself right and others wrong, help him dominate others and himself escape domination, or to enhance his own survival and injure that of others. At least, that’s what the tech says; in reality, the term is applied to people who are not “up-stat” – running around like a chicken with their head cut off to make money fast for the cult. If someone is moping, looks depressed, is making excuses, saying “oh, poor me”, justifying their errors and generally “acting the victim” and trying to get sympathy instead of being 100% dedicated and “making it go right”, they are said to be ser fac’ing (pronounced FACKing). In other words, if someone isn’t living up to the fascist ideals of Scientology, they’re said to be dramatizing their ser facs.”If you keep pulling down stats in my area with your Ser Facs, I’ll write a KR on you!” Grade 4 deals with auditing this type of engram out of the mark. See Grade 4.

    fac·sim·i·le   /fækˈsɪməli/ Show Spelled [fak-sim-uh-lee] Show IPA noun, verb, -led, -le·ing, adjective
    1. an exact copy, as of a book, painting, or manuscript.
    2. Also called fax. Telecommunications .
    a. a method or device for transmitting documents, drawings, photographs, or the like, by means of radio or telephone for exact reproduction elsewhere.
    b. an image transmitted by such a method.
    3. dropout ( def. 5 ) .
    –verb (used with object)
    4. to reproduce in facsimile; make a facsimile of.
    5. Also, fax. Telecommunications .
    a. (of an image) copied by means of facsimile: facsimile mail.
    b. (of a method or device) used to produce a facsimile: facsimile transmission.
    Use facsimile in a Sentence
    See images of facsimile
    Search facsimile on the Web
    1655–65; earlier fac simile make the like, equiv. to L fac (impv. of facere ) + simile, n. use of neut. of similis like; see simile
    1. replica, likeness. 1, 4. duplicate

  41. Ne obliviscaris


    Pretty thick alright. Hey guys, see if you can wrap your noggin’s around this one. Forgive the premature ending, it was as much as I could get in one shot. It’s pretty long and steeped in allegory, so I’ve included the lyrics for ya’.

    Thick As A Brick

    Really don’t mind if you sit this one out.

    My words but a whisper — your deafness a SHOUT.
    I may make you feel but I can’t make you think.
    Your sperm’s in the gutter — your love’s in the sink.
    So you ride yourselves over the fields and
    you make all your animal deals and
    your wise men don’t know how it feels to be thick as a brick.
    And the sand-castle virtues are all swept away in
    the tidal destruction
    the moral melee.
    The elastic retreat rings the close of play as the last wave uncovers
    the newfangled way.
    But your new shoes are worn at the heels and
    your suntan does rapidly peel and
    your wise men don’t know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

    And the love that I feel is so far away:
    I’m a bad dream that I just had today — and you
    shake your head and
    say it’s a shame.

    Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth.
    Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth.
    Spin me down the long ages: let them sing the song.

    See there! A son is born — and we pronounce him fit to fight.
    There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night.
    make a man of him
    put him to trade
    teach him
    to play Monopoly and
    to sing in the rain.

    The Poet and the painter casting shadows on the water —
    as the sun plays on the infantry returning from the sea.
    The do-er and the thinker: no allowance for the other —
    as the failing light illuminates the mercenary’s creed.
    The home fire burning: the kettle almost boiling —
    but the master of the house is far away.
    The horses stamping — their warm breath clouding
    in the sharp and frosty morning of the day.
    And the poet lifts his pen while the soldier sheaths his sword.

    And the youngest of the family is moving with authority.
    Building castles by the sea, he dares the tardy tide to wash them all aside.

    The cattle quietly grazing at the grass down by the river
    where the swelling mountain water moves onward to the sea:
    the builder of the castles renews the age-old purpose
    and contemplates the milking girl whose offer is his need.
    The young men of the household have
    all gone into service and
    are not to be expected for a year.
    The innocent young master — thoughts moving ever faster —
    has formed the plan to change the man he seems.
    And the poet sheaths his pen while the soldier lifts his sword.

    And the oldest of the family is moving with authority.
    Coming from across the sea, he challenges the son who puts him to the run.

    What do you do when
    the old man’s gone — do you want to be him? And
    your real self sings the song.
    Do you want to free him?
    No one to help you get up steam —
    and the whirlpool turns you `way off-beam.

    I’ve come down from the upper class to mend your rotten ways.
    My father was a man-of-power whom everyone obeyed.
    So come on all you criminals!
    I’ve got to put you straight just like I did with my old man —
    twenty years too late.
    Your bread and water’s going cold.
    Your hair is too short and neat.
    I’ll judge you all and make damn sure that no-one judges me.

    You curl your toes in fun as you smile at everyone — you meet the stares.
    You’re unaware that your doings aren’t done.
    And you laugh most ruthlessly as you tell us what not to be.
    But how are we supposed to see where we should run?
    I see you shuffle in the courtroom with
    your rings upon your fingers and
    your downy little sidies and
    your silver-buckle shoes.
    Playing at the hard case, you follow the example of the comic-paper idol
    who lets you bend the rules.

    Come on ye childhood heroes!
    Won’t you rise up from the pages of your comic-books
    your super crooks
    and show us all the way.
    Well! Make your will and testament. Won’t you?
    Join your local government.
    We’ll have Superman for president
    let Robin save the day.

    You put your bet on number one and it comes up every time.
    The other kids have all backed down and they put you first in line.
    And so you finally ask yourself just how big you are —
    and take your place in a wiser world of bigger motor cars.
    And you wonder who to call on.

    So! Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday?
    And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you though?
    They’re all resting down in Cornwall —
    writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition
    of the Boy Scout Manual.

    See there! A man born — and we pronounce him fit for peace.
    There’s a load lifted from his shoulders with the discovery of his disease.
    take the child from him
    put it to the test
    teach it
    to be a wise man
    how to fool the rest.

    We will be geared to the average rather than the exceptional
    God is an overwhelming responsibility
    we walked through the maternity ward and saw 218 babies wearing nylons
    cats are on the upgrade
    upgrade? Hipgrave. Oh, Mac.

    In the clear white circles of morning wonder,
    I take my place with the lord of the hills.
    And the blue-eyed soldiers stand slightly discoloured (in neat little rows)
    sporting canvas frills.
    With their jock-straps pinching, they slouch to attention,
    while queueing for sarnies at the office canteen.
    Saying — how’s your granny and
    good old Ernie: he coughed up a tenner on a premium bond win.

    The legends (worded in the ancient tribal hymn) lie cradled
    in the seagull’s call.
    And all the promises they made are ground beneath the sadist’s fall.
    The poet and the wise man stand behind the gun,
    and signal for the crack of dawn.
    Light the sun.

    Do you believe in the day? Do you?
    Believe in the day! The Dawn Creation of the Kings has begun.
    Soft Venus (lonely maiden) brings the ageless one.
    Do you believe in the day?
    The fading hero has returned to the night — and fully pregnant with the day,
    wise men endorse the poet’s sight.
    Do you believe in the day? Do you? Believe in the day!

    Let me tell you the tales of your life of
    your love and the cut of the knife
    the tireless oppression
    the wisdom instilled
    the desire to kill or be killed.
    Let me sing of the losers who lie in the street as the last bus goes by.
    The pavements ar empty: the gutters run red — while the fool
    toasts his god in the sky.

    So come all ye young men who are building castles!
    Kindly state the time of the year and join your voices in a hellish chorus.
    Mark the precise nature of your fear.
    Let me help you pick up your dead as the sins of the father are fed
    the blood of the fools and
    the thoughts of the wise and
    from the pan under your bed.
    Let me make you a present of song as
    the wise man breaks wind and is gone while
    the fool with the hour-glass is cooking his goose and
    the nursery rhyme winds along.

    So! Come all ye young men who are building castles!
    Kindly state the time of the year and join your voices in a hellish chorus.
    Mark the precise nature of your fear.
    See! The summer lightning casts its bolts upon you
    and the hour of judgement draweth near.
    Would you be
    the fool stood in his suit of armour or
    the wiser man who rushes clear.
    So! Come on ye childhood heroes!
    Won’t your rise up from the pages of your comic-books
    your super-crooks and
    show us all the way.
    Well! Make your will and testament.
    Won’t you? Join your local government.
    We’ll have Superman for president
    let Robin save the day.
    So! Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday?
    And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you through?
    They’re all resting down in Cornwall — writing up their memoirs
    for a paper-back edition of the Boy Scout Manual.

    So you ride yourselves over the fields and
    you make all your animal deals and
    your wise men don’t know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

  42. This expresses my feelings about the current situation inside the CoM, in perhaps the most sublime way possible. These people stuck in Miscavology are there because they have lost their faith in their own ability to make a postulate stick. And so they willingly give their power away, to someone who can only betray them.

    “You and I have been through that, and this is not our fate;
    So let us not talk falsely now, the hour’s getting late.”
    – Bob Dylan “All Along the Watchtower”

  43. Important post, Marty.

    I have 2 honest questions for you:

    Isn’t L Ron Hubbard the Source of Scientology?

    Doesn’t Radical Scientology exist only because of the speeches and writings of L Ron Hubbard?

    This is a very important point, and I am wondering how you interpret this. I think many others are, too.

  44. Tom,

    Thanks for the kind words. I have my peccadilloes to be sure, so let’s not get too carried away here. I do however realize the overt of omission in not speaking up or in chasing butterflies when I should be auditing.

    ML John

  45. I did read the Koran, and analyzed it carefully from beginning to end and from a Scientology perspective, and I concluded that it is a slave ideology. It says right off the bat give up your self determinism and control of your life and become a slave to Allah and do his murderous bidding. Reading further, I was appalled by its tenets which preach murdering non believers , lying , pillaging , looting , thievery , treachery, and outright savagery. I concluded that it is a suppressive text and that anyone that would subscribe to its ideology qualifies as a suppressive person in my opinion. That is what I observed. No one has coopted Islam. Islam is the Koran plus the Hadiths. It is my opinion that it is an EVIL ideology that is a major threat to the road to freedom on this planet. And that my friend is a reality that we will all have to face sooner or later.

  46. Wow, Marty what a brilliant comparison. Makes sense to me. Thank you this.

  47. DM’s Birthday is Hitlers day of death *wink wink, notch notch*

  48. Ad Childabuse to that.

  49. martyrathbun09

    And Christianity is what?

  50. martyrathbun09

    Allen, your question indicates to me you’ve got issues like Free Toaster whose comment you can read on this thread.

  51. Dear Marty,

    Thank you for such a thoughtful missive. Radical Scientology pretty much sums up the official scene.

    This reminded me of a favorite performer, Cat Stevens. He converted to Islam and continues to tell stories through songs. Here is one that should fit in with today’s theme.

    ML, Tom

  52. Virgil Samms

    And that’s what I’m talking about. Pecs or not, getting drunk and arrested all shows you are alive. But at least you try to do something about it using LRH tech and that’s what makes you a Scientologist.

    ML Tom

  53. FreeToaster,

    Remember the man who preached “love thy neighbour” and “turn the other cheek”? The man who revised the Abraham doctrine of “an eye for an eye”?

    Well …

    In Islam, the Prophet Jesus (Arabic: عيسى عليه السلام‎ `Īsā Alayhi As Salam) is considered to be a Messenger of God who was sent to guide the People of Israel (banī isrā’īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[1]

  54. “Our best hope for the future is that the intellect—the scientific spirit, reason—should in time establish a dictatorship over the human mind. … Whatever, like the ban laid upon thought by religion, opposes such a development is a danger for the future of mankind”

    -Sigmund Freud

  55. Dominance: The ability to harm another

    “Humans have used their creativity to unleash the primitive concept of dominance and use their ability to harm others in a remarkably wide variety of ways. Here is a partial list: http://www.emotionalcompetency.com/dominance.htm

  56. Well, in my service facsimile, probably like many others in the CofM, the attitude applied only to the Thous, those determined worthy of shunning, degradation or at least a look down the nose at, like Marty mentioned in his post, the infidels, the “squirrels”, “disaffecteds”, “mental health professionals”, and non-compliant or non-sympathetic “wogs”.
    There’s no need to use this on PCs or PreOTs getting services and towing the line.
    It definitely wasn’t baked into my training either. It came from the good following of whacked administration. All roads lead to the top on this one.

  57. Joe~Like minds 😉

  58. Free Toaster congratulations on branding 1 billion + people Evil. Marty you are right christianity can be twisted into something evil too. Funny how the 3 abramic faiths want to hold eachother in deadlock.

    Thank God I am an Atheïst <—- lol

  59. OMG I’m laughing over your getting declared PTS to the Middle Class. What a joke! There’s the pot calling the kettle black!
    Excellent points about disagreeing.
    Yes, disagree! It’s OK to do! It’s your thetanly right!

  60. lol at leading questions.

  61. Miscavige ain’t no “Ayatollah”; nope, he’s just a small-time “Assahola”. He only has a small circle of Sea Org members in RTC and OSA that do his evil bidding, and a small circle of koolaid drinking celebs and “power Scientologists” that continue to flow him money. The rank and file Sea Org member would be disgusted if they knew what really goes on at the Int base; the rank and file scientologist hates the IAS and all the ridiculous, never-ending reg activities for which they get no exchange. The rank-and-file don’t even know they’ve been lied to about OT 9 and 10. It isn’t going to be hard to shatter all that; just keep the truth coming out. My only question is, what will rise out of the ashes? A new dictator? Would you want someone like Jennifer Linson to become the new “Chairman of the Bullshit ™”?

  62. OK, I read that wrong…I thought you got declared PTS to the Middle Class and was having my own laughing fits over here. Sorry.

  63. Modern evolution/big bang theory is a more vicious and subtle religion though. There’s no evolutionary pathway to make a human, the opposite is proven, and the only thing being found out is that SETI/Intelligent Design/some kind of Lamarkian thing, has at least part of the picture right. With the amount of evidence around now, there’s no other options. Modern science is political and dogmatic except for some of the people in physics, like the Cambridge U. Professor who says it’s proven, or at least must be inferred, that we all come from another universe. Freud I don’t know enough about to comment on. See the website UncommonDescent. Behe and Stephen Meyers have it right I think.

  64. ~~~Admiration flowing your way John~~~

  65. “Guilt-tripping – One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic, that I believe it illustrates how fundamentally different in character they are compared to other (especially neurotic) personalities. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.”


  66. WH, I loved what you said. Thanks

  67. Thank you for making it so clear. I’ve learned so many lessons.
    One I’m working on is the point of community. It isn’t enough that I could stand up for myself (and my children) and not be terrorized. I’m still working on this one…and how I fit into community as an auditor. Still working.

  68. I don’t see how pointing out similarities to something else helps as-is the current condition. Please continue with descriptions from your time creating in the church, Marty. 🙂

  69. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    I totally understand what’s being said and it’s awesome. What a great parallel!

    However, I’m a bit nervous with branding scientology with new “denominations” of it. Scientology is scientology.

    DM’s “version” of scientology (named here “radical scientology) is actually not scientology at all when one looks at all the church’s squirrelling of tech and admin.

    I guess I won’t be too put off by calling David Miscavages “brand” of scientology “radical scientology” as long as the public doesn’t equate …

    Radical Scientology = Literal Scientology (the “real” thing)

    Though we who are hatted here easily understand what is meant by RS, I’m not sure the public will, and will be confused instead, and thus we’ll only be potentially misunderstood.

    Other than this term I’m hesitant to use myself, this was a great post Marty. Thanks!

  70. Marty, your answer indicates to me that you are avoiding my questions.

  71. T Paine,

    You are right, the end never justifies the means, because:

    the means ARE the end

    {just a little wise thought I had one day recently, I find it useful. Especially useful if I feel compelled to use force to handle some sit]

  72. WH, Beautiful analogy my friend. Love

  73. Thank you! Thank you for this piece Marty! This is EXACTLY what I have been seeing with the fanatics. It hovers around sadism on the tone scale and the terrorism is blatant even at staff meetings. It is religous fanatics, sadism and terrorism bundled up into one big package known as “culture”. This culture has foamed up around the books and methods and obscured it. It is social insanity at it’s most ancient period.

  74. martyrathbun09

    I answered your question – you just haven’t gotten exterior from your fixed idea to recognize it.

  75. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    1) No. Scientology already existed before LRH. L Ron Hubbard did not “invent” scientology. He just named what already existed, and brought it to our attention in a way we can understand. In that sense, he is the “source.”

    2) Some of LRH’s material could be taken too literal for those low on the tone scale. But those who know him, and know his sarcasm, and are in good mental health … know damn well he was joking. The old man has a great sense of humor.

    P.S. Sidenote: I appreciate you posting your name and not hiding behind a screen name. (Though I understand there may be some good reasons for others here to remain anonymous too. But the more open we are with our names and pictures of us, the more honest we appear to the public because it looks like were not hiding. I at one time hid too! )

  76. That is what you get from a Bank……a free toaster!

    Need I say more? 🙂

  77. Hi Wayne-

    I can see your point, however, I have found that metaphors can hugely help others understand difficult subjects.

    I found Marty’s example above nails it. IMHO.


  78. It goes to the origins of first life. Placing the origins of life in an other universe does not adress the question at all because than you have to explain that.

    And if you belief you are a Spirit from another Universe than get your but back to yours and stop overpopulating mine. 🙂

  79. And loaded questions.

  80. Brilliant Marty! Radical Scientology. Terrorists. That’s what it is.

  81. Great comment, John. Really like your insight, perspective and dedicated actions!
    And, as for pecs, how does that saying go?
    “Every angel has a past and every sinner has a future”

    As you say: “The truth doesn’t wash off,…” and the truth about us, those who are willing to look and know, is simply pure theta.

  82. crashingupwards

    Marty, when the blinders came off of you, they came off for good. You went from eyes wide shut to eyes wide open and never to be closed again. You see it all and say it all.
    Your analogy is strong. It is the reality. And its a bit scary when you look behind all the PR smoke and mirrors at the motivation. But like the “great Oz”, when the curtain is pulled back, its managable. Thanks for pulling back the curtain. This too shall pass.

  83. “Freedom isn’t something you get and then have. It’s something you have to fight for and keep right on fighting for.”

    -George Wichelow


  84. Great point Marty.

    As more and more of us are realizing in retrospect, it was already becoming radical Scientology even 5 or 10 years ago.

    As I read this post and the one just before it about Morten Astrupgaard and the Vulture Culture, it reminded me of one of the most gruesome stories I ever heard, but couldn’t quite confront at the time:

    I knew a girl (brand new public) from Long Island, NY who had the misfortune of meeting an “OT VII” named Joe Reaiche about five years ago. He was already hip to “regging off the dead” since he was a former Sea Org member at Flag himself, who specialized in recoveries of wealthy Scientologists. Joe wound up telling this brand new public that her recently deceased sister was in telepathic communication with him. Joe told this new public that her dead sister wanted her savings and credit cards maxed out so that this new public could get Scientology services.

    According to this new public (who I was on the Purif with at CC), this was money left by her deceased sister to her nine year old son. Through the most underhanded means and machinations that only an ex Sea Org reg could pull off, Joe managed to bilk the estate for over $200,000.

    Luckily, the girl persevered in bringing justice and Joe Reaiche was finally Comm Eved and declared. Even this was a mixed blessing though because the church was more interested in Joe’s failure to tithe 10% of his ill-gotten earnings to I-HELP than in his shameless, illegal, blood-sucking of a brand new public.

    This is radical Scientology at it’s finest.

  85. Thought Provoking


    Thank you for expanding on sympathy. In my observation, many
    non-Scientologists seem to have a better grasp of this than Scientologists. Imagine having no sypathy for someone who has recently lost a loved one or even someone who is going through a difficult time in life? Without sympathy one comes across as uncaring, cold or just plain mean.

  86. Behe? You gotta be kidding me. My 13 year old son can poke holes all over his arguments. They just do not stand up to real scrutiny.

    The mountains of evidence for evolution are staggering. However, very few lay people understand it and the Discovery Institute doesn’t help either. Their op basis is to start with a fixed idea (borne of Christianity) and find facts to fit. Science doesn’t work like that – science observes all the facts and derives a conclusion from them. If the conclusion is later proven false (or more often, weak), the theory is rejected or modified to match the observed facts.

    You are also conflating evolution with abiogenesis. These are entirely different things – evolution is a continual on-going process, abiogenesis is a single event, a cause point. Per 8C which we should all be familiar with, Start and Change are definitely not the same thing.

    Behe’s frequent argument is that evolution cannot be true as it doesn’t explain abiogenesis. This is nonsensical and a straw man argument.

    Face it, the MEST in this universe operates in a total random fashion. That’s how it persists – you cannot fully observe it and as-is if it is constantly changing in unpredictable ways. RNA and DNA molecules are constantly recombining in new ways and occasionally a new combination happens that is better suited to survival in the current environment. Considering the enormous numbers of such events, statistical probability virtually guarantees that on the whole these better suited molecules will persist better. And that is all that evolution is.

    Apart from the sun that is – the sun is the engine that drives the whole process.


  87. I think an indication of radicalism was the TV incident in 1983 or 1984 when managenent stole the TVs from the Sea Org. Or better yet the crussing of the missionholders. I could roll it back even further but I stop here to keep the peace because I think I made my point.

  88. Thought Provoking


    What a moving post that was and so true!

  89. Thought Provoking


    I completely agree about the positive changes occuring. Despite being declared and off the comm lines, active public are contacting me and reconnecting with me. 🙂

  90. theo sismanides

    Μarty, yes, I think I like the way the Oracle put it: Fanaticism. And that is what an Ayatollah is for me. A fanatic as opposed to a leader who knows.

    You know one thing! The more I studied Scientology the more DM looked to me like a “lesser leader”. The more OT I would become (even without the Bridge but just by study and application within the SO) the “lesser” he became.

    Point is, the more we go up the more Ayatollahs we are going to find leading this world. One of them is DM. there are many more but they act in more “civilized” ways. Within a pseudo-democratic system.

    DM is not up to keep the task of a leader in a philosophy which is the highest level of knoweldge Man has or even had. I wonder why? Probably he has npt the breadth of mind LRH had. He is too little for the task. On top of that he is more inclined to Suppression and suppressing real knoweledge in people. He is horrified of that.Typical SP.

    So being an SP and (I feel sorry for him now as I write it, it’s not easy to fly a spaceship just by yourself or by terror, it takes a crew and knoweldgeand skills) … So being the “lesser” leader in that he has much lower understanding of the Tech and Admin than LRH and probably many other
    Scientolostis around, he has now found himself in that tight spot.

    He can no longer hide as the “lesser” leader and ithe planet is in need of change.

    Dave you are not considered an authority in leading Scientology anymore. Your Ethics Presence not there anymore because you called too many wrong “now we are supposed to’s”. You lead Scientology really as an Ayatollah which is a very poor perfomance for such a Vehicle.

    The people who followed you once BLINDLY, do not do it anymore and a tually it’s them now that you find as the ones most difficult to overcome. Why?

    Because the Planet is in real need of change and they have seen the Overt of Magnitude that has been committed in your Era. The DM Era. An Era of Ayatollahization of Scientology!!! This is your product DM and now it’s not just me saying it. It’s your once loyal officers saying it out loud.

    Can we ever be friends David? Hell no, eh? I knew it right back in 1995 there was something wrong with you. Now there is many more who know it, believe it, scream it At the top of their lungs and there is more coming. I am sorry. Life is putting ethics in once again. You proved yourself too small for the task. Life, not just me now, is demanding Change.

  91. Watching Eyes

    When I read your posting I thought the “RS” at the end of each item stood for rockslam. And a rockslam fit each & every item. Then I realized you meant Radical Scn. Funny.

  92. theta networker

    I appreciate the Ayatollah Miscavige and Radical Scientology piece and comments …

    Marty, I learned from listening to Malcolm X, many years ago, and I understand your admiration for him … I am not always the most cool — as opposed to angry — guy around, and I know that some could be labeled as “field knee-grows,” or sheep, or lemmings or not having gotten over their fixed ideas…Actually I think lemmings are kinda cute 🙂

    I would like to gently suggest that:

    (1) We don’t engage in any labeling that tends to devalue other human beings rather than grant them beingness.

    (2) It is best to strive to act as in WTH Precept 17-1:

    Instead of arguing with others, get them to look. The most flagrant lies can be punctured, the greatest pretenses can be exposed, the most intricate puzzles can be resolved and the most remarkable revelations can occur, simply by gently insisting that someone look.

    (3) Perhaps Hymn Of Asia can be read, on a secondary level, as allegory for Radicals vs. Independents:

    Example [near the beginning of Hymn Of Asia]:

    Today a piece of Asia Swings
    With a Troubled Mind
    To Politics
    Now let that be the
    Asian Mind, not yours.

    Makes me want to say:

    “Today a piece of Scientology Swings
    With a Troubled Mind
    To Politics
    Now let that be the
    ‘Church’ Mind, not ours.”

    Thanks for listening to all diverse opinions …

  93. Taliban Scientology–that is so funny!

  94. I heard it said that in order for a philsophy to become a religion that it needed to contain these two elements:
    Is largely unprovable.
    Requires complete faith.
    So now that DM has had his way with Scientology, it falls perfectly into the above criteria for a religion because he darn sure took any “provability” out of it which certainly makes it require that leap of “faith”.
    Way to go, knucklehead.

  95. Tom, Now That is funny!

  96. Scientology is and will be what we made/make of it. Ron’s long dead.

    I think Marty’s viewpoint is abundantly clear.

    MY viewpoint is that there is plenty of material that make up the subject of scientology to justify or rationalize anything. It is in establishing an understanding of the gestalt, and acting on the overall intent, that scientology “works”.

    An altering of importantces seem to be the root of your question; statements, policy, taken out of the whole context and applied as if they were the whole subject, more important in the situation than rational consideration would indicate, have brought disrepute to it.

    You can either be a fact hugger, or an it getter. Get it Alanzo?

    All Hubbard said was not of equal importance, similar relevance, or even universally useful. The map is not the territory, the words only clues to the meaning. Good clues, but they require a live and ethical being for them to “work”.

    But one suspects your question being a more rhetorical attempt to characterize scientology in lines with your disgust with it, rather than gain any further understanding.



  97. martyrathbun09

    Alex, you said it better than I ever could have.

  98. martyrathbun09

    Perhaps comment of the year!

  99. Alanzo,
    You have done the Data Series. You have even clay demo’d the definition of Sanity: “SANITY IS THE ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE DIFFERENCES, SIMILARITIES AND IDENTITIES.”

    You then “beg the question” in the way you phrase it, as if to enforce Identities (source) that are not identical. Let me put it to you this way: if you are auditing a PC in session, WHO is the source of the session? If you are at bat, and swinging for the fences, and hit a home run, WHO is the source of that? You have been riding this ideological fallacy for many years. If that is the extent of the expression of your spiritual growth in “Scientology”, then I am really, truly, honestly sorry. Because that ain’t “it”.

  100. Another Story.

    I hired a Public Scientologist for packaging and shipping (I am an Art dealer) about 2 years ago.
    He pleaded with me to loan him $3500 for an intensive at Celebrity Centre.
    This he claimed would be paid back out of his monies earned from working with me. At that time, I thought this was a good reach for services. Cathy the reg was all over me for the credit card before Thursday 2pm.

    Long story short, he did not work out. He left working for me within 4 weeks and claimed it was too bad I lent him the money, he was out and he would not pay back the $3500.

    I went to see the MAA at CC INT asking for help. She was rude and obnoxious and told me this belonged on WISE lines and had NOTHING to do with CC INT. I weakly protested that CC INT took my money and should at least help.

    I called WISE. They immediately demanded $500 up front to be a “member of WISE” and some ungodly fee to do the “arbitration” which essentially would have zero’d out the $3500.

    I walked away. The EP of the CC INT intensive I paid for was the public thumbing his nose at me for the debt he was not going to pay. CC INT would not hear of lifting a finger to help get the public pc pay back his debt.

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the privileges of being an autonomous BUSINESS modality without a clue on service or helping the public.
    No accountablility ~~ only threats to take away your Spiritual “ETERNITY”.

  101. Thought Provoking

    Crashing, I agree!

    For those of us who have been following the blogs for almost a year, this is very real and correct. I think only the newcomers to the blogs might feel a bit of shock when reading this analogy. The handling for this is simple, read some of the earlier blog posts here and at Scientology-cult.com. Particularly, the ones that talk about all the Int execs being in the “hole” including Heber, the forced abortions of SO members, the forced disconnections, etc.

    My advise to anyone feeling like their stable data is seriously shaking is to continue to look and find out the truth. Eventually, you will become more certain of what is truth and what is not from your own point of view.

  102. The Creation of Human Ability Los Angeles A.S.H.O. 1971- page 251 wrote:
    “Society, thirsting for more control of more people substitutes
    religion for the spirit, the body for the soul, an identity for
    the individual and science and data for truth. In this direction
    lies insanity, increasing slavery, less knowingness, greater scarcity
    and less society.

    Scientology has opened the gates to a better world. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion. It is a body of knowledge which, when properly used, gives freedom and truth to the individual.”

    (removed from 1974 and later editions for obvious reasons

  103. Marty you’re right. But if you weren’t, I could call you out on it or give you my opinion and you won’t call jihad on my arse.
    whereas the “spiritual leader of our church” (as he was refferred to in their latest PR film with the young pretty faces) has no time or tolerance for self determined opinion or thought. In other words what is true IS NO LONGER what is true for you.
    Best, Rev

  104. Radical Scientology likes to shut down all questioning, and tries to suppress the free exchange of ideas.

    I’m happy to see Real Scientology allowing it.

    Thank you to everyone who answered.

    And thank you, Marty, for posting my questions.

  105. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    I understand the purpose of using the term. Perhaps I’m too cautious from my past experience, though.

    I fought for years trying to help critics understand that the “church scientology” they saw was not authentic scientology. Finally, they saw the light and figured out that church scientologists are not the same as scientologists freed from the Miscavage cult.

    So I’m nervous about promoting any other “version” of scientology or giving a different version any livingness besides authentic LRH scientology. Any other [input word here] scientology is not really scientology and shouldn’t be given the credibility of the scientology term.

    The term “miscavology” is difficult to get confused with scientology and separates the two ology’s clearly. It’s my preference.

    I just prefer not risking the name “scientology” getting contaminated anymore than it already is with even more added adjectives.

    But as long as public understand the difference between radical scientology and scientology, then I’d be ok with it. However, IMO, I don’t believe they’ll understand the difference like us scientologists do.

    I just hope others will carefully think about this first before “radical scientology” gains more life and turns into a common buzz word among scientologists, and potentially creates more confusion than we already have.

  106. Amen.

    Thanks Dean!

  107. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Yes Marty, you are to be profusely thanked for being open and listening to any diversity of opinion here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! 🙂

  108. Ha ! “Arse.”

  109. Dear Karen,

    It goes to show that there is no honor among thieves.

    Tom Gallagher

  110. Marta – Perfect! (and it’s Gandhi).

  111. Cat Daddy,

    I don’t consider any kind of dictatorship over my intellect, even a figurative one, to be desirable. A being has more ways of knowing and understanding than can be satisfied by science alone.


  112. Jazakallahu Khayran. Radiyallahu anhu, ismaa Marty. Fata-Barak-Allah Ramadhan.

    جزاك الله خيرا. Radiyallahu الله عنه ، إسماعيل مارتي. فاتا باراك الله رمضان.

    May Allah reward you for the good. May Allah be pleased with him, who is named Marty. May Allah bless you this Ramadan.

  113. martyrathbun09

    I get what you are saying Wayne. I wasn’t even thinking about suggesting people use a new term. But, having read all the comments today – including yours – I am beginning to think it could be quite useful. When you get an earful about abuses when you mention the word Scientology, you can easily and rapidly differentiate, capture interest and set the stage for what real Scientology is with “Oh, that’s Radical Scientology.”

  114. Veritis, that was breathtaking!

    Yes, we are starting to build a new civiization. The snowball is growing and rolling downhill faster. The monster is dancing to our beat now at our will (Didja hear that the 3 swings of the F/N H”COB” is cancelled as of last week? That’s right!).
    And John, Lisa Hamilton is a good, good and sane terminal and can and will help you out, if needed. She is the best in the business.

    Let’s roll. People, start moving on the bridge! Let’s rock and roll!!

    ML Tom

  115. Karen,

    Just FYI, I had a similar situation with an OTV who owed me $3500 that I put on a Discover Card. This OTV made payments for a while, then stopped with no com or reason. I went to the Mission Holder where this person was on staff and explained that they had a staff member there who was extremely out ethics (and should not be working as an EO). Results? I was told to take it to WISE and well, you know the rest. I had to join WISE, and thankfully I got payments reinstated. However, the damage was done and it took this person years longer to pay off the card. Discover then closed my account. I never got to use the card once for my personal use.

    So, I know where you are coming from.


  116. That was excellent Dean!

    That SP declare shore did something over there. Made you kinda sudden but with deep thought.

    ML Tom

  117. one of those who see

    Great Quote. Thanks for posting. I have the old and new editions-will check this out.

  118. Watching Eyes – that’s the brilliance of naming dms group radical scientology – the initials are RS – which does stand for rock slam and that is exactly what dms group does – rock slam.

    (my initial post on this thread I used the initials RA a it was a typo – I intended to type RS)


  119. Alex, I agree with Marty. Very well said!

  120. tsb,
    Man! That is quite a story.
    RS – Radical Scientology

  121. theta networker,
    You make some very good points, especially in emphasizing that we encourage CoM members to “look”, to thoroughly view.

    People can learn a lot by looking at other groups and comparing the deceptions, along with the manipulations which follow.
    I advocate “looking” at other 3-D manipulations.

    There are many examples of groups and deceptions/manipulations.
    Knowing about these helps to raise awareness in how people can be manipulated.
    Most people are aware of some of the corporate/government deceptions in the field of health.
    Third World countries are deceived by the IMF and World Bank quite often.

    There is Operation Northwoods, Jonestown, the history of the Federal Reserve System, some of the documented false-flag events perpetrated by different governments, etc.
    (Online documentaries- http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online/ )
    I think that by comparing other examples of manipulation to the Miscavige manipulation, people can become more aware.

  122. It sure appears that Out Ethics PCs are allowed as long as the money is on the table, whether he ripped it off, devised a Ponzi scheme or committed fraud or perhaps just robbed a bank. One would think that the PC would not get any gains personally from being out ethics. It’s the current standard of Radical Scientology the conservatives are slack jawed about!

  123. read it again that is not what it said. “Our best hope for the future is that the intellect—the scientific spirit, reason—should in time establish a dictatorship over the human mind”

  124. Free Toaster here is a Christian Ayatollah

  125. Karen, I saw this happen many times . I never joined nor had anything to do with Wise. That group in my eyes was criminal.

  126. TheEmperorIsNaked

    On more try to get this up where I wanted it…

    Are you sure you studied Islam? I did see that non-believers are taxed, and I don’t like that, but that is a far cry from what you are saying. I also don’t like that women are really given low status, but again you are painting it much more extreme.

    Also, logic dictates that 1 billion slaves totally motivated by evil overlords would take over this planet in a heartbeat. That would be 1 in 6. It would be a done deal, nothing could stop them. So just on logic, your argument fails. I mean – think about it.

  127. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Wow Tom,
    That really sounded like an LRH quote. You said:
    “These people stuck in Miscavology are there because they have lost their faith in their own ability to make a postulate stick. And so they willingly give their power away, to someone who can only betray them.”

    LRH said something like: “people will elect leaders to kill or destroy them.” Sorry I cannot remember the reference though.

  128. Radical Scientology exists for the same reason that any radical group exists…some people can make a terrorist group out of ANY ideology, even the Easter Bunny. I’m not going to quit eating chocolate because somebody wearing rabbit ears uses chocolate and jelly beans to trick and abuse people. But I will not be doing the Bunny Hop with that critter, that’s for sure. And just because I like chocolate does not equal that I am a Radical EasterBunnologist.

  129. Free Toaster

    re: Islam , I stated what I observed. I looked and told you my conclusions. You do not need to accept them, evidently some of you do not. I’ll just say to all the good folks on this site that DM is the least of your problems right now. I never liked the guy and I am saddened by what he did to Scn and the SO and his outright betrayal of the old man. But as far as I am concerned scn succeeding would be a far better option than an Islam dominated world, the latter would be the nightmare to end all nightmares.

  130. Thanks Veritas,

    Some more wise words I just ran across:

  131. Rory Medford

    Scientology or should I now say Radical Scientology will take

    EVERY PENNY you have and MORE if you would allow it

    TIME had it right in their article aptly named


  132. Rory Medford

    It’s just disgusting the way every entity acts and behaves

    They are money grubbing, 1.1 entities across the board and as the saying goes


    Monkey see, Monkey do

  133. Free Toaster, if you want your blanket conclusions about a large group of people to be anything close to true, try looking at their actions rather than snippets of their scripture, over which they have no editorial control after all. You will notice that of the billion+ Muslims, at least 999 million are not practicing jihad.

    And another thing: as you sow, so shall you reap. If someone else were to apply judgemental generalizations similar to yours, they might conclude that because you are (or were) a Scientologist, you must also be an abusive con man like Der Leader.

  134. George Klein

    Service Facsimile
    Tone level has no baring .
    A system of thinking and being .

    My point a person can go way up the bridge and still have a service fact
    running their way of thinking and being .

    An example ” taking criticism of a their thinking or behavior ” as a personal attack and then attacking back .

    And to ” sciences and scientist ” they lie and fudge BS and make stuff up in droves . Paxil any one ?

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