RTC is dead


There is an RTC ”mission” that has turned into a full time affair attempting damage control on the Independent Movement. It is headed by two long-time RTC staff, both of whom ironically I had to handle numerous times on disaffection with Miscavige over the years. They are Stahli (Hansuili) and Sutter (Mike), Miscavige’s SS. SS describes their intent and function. According to Wikipedia, “SS is well known for establishing the police state of Nazi Germany and suppressing all resistance to Adolf Hitler through the use of security forces, such as, the Gestapo.”  Take away their 1.1 introductions smarmy justifications, replace “Nazi Germany” with “Radical Scientology”, and replace “Adolf Hitler” with “David Miscavige” and Stahli and Sutter (and Marion Pouw of RTC, all the OSA External Security and Intell staff, and local MAAs they call into termporary service) constitute a modern day version of Nazi German SS in intent and function.

While the RTC SS is a nasty piece of work, it is nothing to fear. The Scientology field that they are desperately trying to intimidate is far more informed than the general public in Nazi Germany were. And so their confrontations are more Keystone Cops than blood curdling Gestapo.

I was in the Sea Org for twenty-seven years and never, never did I see such an incompetent couple of bumbling fool missionaires last more than a day or two without being recalled. DM has had them out for nearly a year. That is an indication of just how far DM has burrowed into his bunker. A video tape was forwarded to me by two alert public that captured one of their attempted brainwashing sessions. They are laughable.

Sutter and Stahli are defending such an indefensibly criminal organization, they constantly sound as if they are tip-toeing around a floor covered with egg shells. They talk in generalities, they deal in platitudes. When confronted with any of the important truths we’ve disclosed on this blog, they stammer and stumble like Ralph Kramden when he was being dressed down by Alice.

In terms of overall effectiveness they are a Treason mission from Miscavige’s perspective. From our point of view they are Power. They push more people into becoming independents than they pull back into the sheep pen. I have collected far more valuable evidence on DM from them than they could ever dream of collecting on me.

If the Miscavige SS comes calling, I highly recommend you see them and ask them some piercing questions. Watching what are now considered the heavies squirm like earthworms can be quite entertaining. It can also do wonders for your own de-PTSing process.

All sarcasm aside, RTC is dead.

205 responses to “RTC is dead

  1. rory Medford

    RTC is DEAD!!!!

    Bravo, it was just a matter of time.

    If RTC is dead then will Scientology come back to life?

  2. Virgil Samms

    If it is Sutter and Marion together is it not S&M?

    I’ve actually requested they come and see me. No one came. Not even Marion. Not Sutter (well, I think he knows better). I really wanted Hansuli. But no, he only treatens old ladies or young girls. What a coward.
    I had a cougar problem on the PAC Ranch because he kept moving in on the little kids. He alsmost got a kid one day. I saw the game warden and he told me that there is something wrong with the cougar – it is weak somehow and has to go onto the ranch and try to get an “easy kill”. He gave me okay to shoot it because it was scaring the kids. I staked out behind the ranch with some meat and finally shot the cougar. No more easy kills for him.

    So these guys are the same. They think they are going for weaklings, but they are wrong. But, did SS go see Haydn? No, Hadyns IQ is 3X SS combined IQ. Did they go to see Rinder? No, they knew better. Did they go see a 75 year-old lady when she was alone and threaten her? You bet. Would they have threatened her if I were standing there? Not on your life.
    Come see me Hansuli. I’ll give you a real nice talk. Punk.

    Tom Martiniano – just so we clear.

  3. ” A video tape was forwarded to me by two alert public that captured one of their attempted brainwashing sessions. They are laughable.”

    Is there any way could you post the video on this blog? If nothing else, I could use the laugh.

  4. Marty, you had me laughing out loud with your reference to the absolute greatest television show EVER. Hope you plan to show the Hank and Mike video. I only know of three people that these stooges succeeded in getting back into the fold: Yael Sherlock (desperate to reconnect with family), Pablo Lobato (equally desperate to reconnect with his children) and Neel Smed (no clue why she caved since she had been in comm in the days leading up to meeting Hansueli wondering if she should even bother wasting her time and joking about it). Everyone else, swing and a miss.

  5. You just don’t quit, do you, Marty?
    Just when I thought I had all the comic relief I could take, you come up with: “When confronted with any of the important truths we’ve disclosed on this blog, they stammer and stumble like Ralph Kramdem when he was being dressed down by Alice.”
    Tom and I actually wanted these buffoons to knock on our door…. Fuhgettaboutit.
    Please use your editing abilities and smooth 2WC to get permission to post this video, could you?

  6. Famous last words from an OSA terminal which I read on this blog: “We are above the overt-motivator sequence”. Well, good luck with that one. I’m not going to operate on that datum.

  7. If the Miscavige SS comes calling I will beg, plead and cry for them NOT to throw me into the Briar Patch …

    I will promise ANYTHING just as long as they don’t throw me in the Briar Patch.

    And then — when they do, being the completely robotic fools they’ve become … they’ll hear me say —

    “I was born and bred in the Briar Patch” — as I go merrily on my way.

    Remember — if they come acallin’ – be true to yourself. Remember where you were born and bred and NOTHING can hurt you.


    Surely not the SS of RS.

    PS: To those of you foreigners or too young to remember the Uncle Remus stories — google Br’er Rabbit

  8. Here is to The White Rose.

  9. Very interesting comparison.

    For those not familiar with History, you can get a good idea of what it was like for Hitler in the bunker during the last days of his life by watching the movie “Der Untergang” (Downfall). It is brilliantly acted and is centered around the recollections of Traudel Junge, one of Hitler’s personal secretaries from 1943 to 1945. Hitler is played by Bruno Ganz, and most brilliantly, in my opinion.

    I thought this would give some mass to the comparison we see in this article relating the current COS to Hitler’s SS, etc. Even to the end, Hitler was intent on destroying everything left behind, and even had people executed a few days before he shot himself (including his mistresse’s own brother-in-law). A truly tragic affair in our world’s history.

    Now, I am not on the receiving end of OSA right now, and probably never will be, but from I have seen over the last year reading this blog, it is certainly not a stretch to compare what they do with the SS, in many respects.


  10. Yeap, I can attest to that. Hansuli makes a better impression because he mainly keeps his mouth shut. Mike Sutter makes an impression of a complete psychotic (which he actually isn’t or at least was’t), i.e. eyes glazed over, obsessively outflowing, the inflow is totally shut off, facts are disregarded, logic is completely ignored, no semblance of a comm cycle, attention span of a dodo bird. Very outpointy. He is definitely a few sandwiches short upstairs. He did an excellent job of getting me into the Independents camp.

  11. Mike Sutter. a DM doormat
    A poster called Misha wrote on

    the above site the following ~~
    I met with Mike Sutter and Hansuli Stahli and that was that. I found Mike to be basically psychotic: obsessively talking, not listening, totally shut off from any reason or observation, kind of hysterical, a total stranger to comm cycle, ARC, facts, etc. Unquote
    and this is my response
    # RE: RE: Survey: What Impinges? — Karen#1 2010-08-07 20:47
    Dear Misha,
    In reference to your comment about Mike Sutter acting psychotic, please read this posting by Dan Garvin, where Mike Sutter, in a room full of people offered to Kill for DM. (homicide)

  12. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Marty,
    I believe you that RTC is dead. The stooges around Seattle are also trying to convince people that I am a “squirrel”. First off I could care less what label they put on me. Secondly, I got out of the church partly due to the squirrel handlings that I got from the “Mecca”. If DM is the Ayatollah then I guess it’s appropriate for him to have a Mecca of Squirreldom. If there are any Scios out there reading this,if you really wanted to get at the truth,you would talk to me and get my side of the story instead of listening to hear say from a group of desperate squirrels. In Scientology you were supposed to learn how to think for yourself, not rotely listen to the “annoited ones”. What if hypothetically, there was an SP inside the church (there is, but for your sake I will say hypothetically)? How would you ever find out if you were not willing to look at all sides? The PTS Sea Org now say to not listen because it is “entheta”. What if an Ethics Office said he wouldn’t listen to you if you felt someone was suppressing you because it was “entheta”?? Does that make sense??
    Yes Marty, I think you are right. If RTC was supposed to be doing good for the church it appears that they have given up that goal and have all succumbed to the SP.
    There is only one course left and that is to continue to put ethics in from the outside of the church and get a Reformation accomplished.

  13. RTC ~~ psychotic conduct.
    Probably the beatings within RTC are beyond anything you and I can fathom.
    Here is the so called “high echelon” of the Church and the violence and abusive conduct is out the roof.
    Marty quotes
    “Working with Miscavige from 2000 forward was a continually deteriorating condition … regularly Miscavige would, in the middle of a conference, physically assault, punch open handed, tackle people.”
    “Mark Yager got beat up, kicked on, had large volumes thrown at him by Miscavige.”
    “Ray Mithoff got beat up by Miscavige.”
    “Mark Ingbar got beat up by Miscavige.”
    “Mike Rinder got it worse, [I saw him] get beatup at least a dozen times by Miscavige.”
    “Tom DeVocht got beatup by Miscavige a couple of times, and seeing that one time, caused me to leave.”
    Mike Rinder Quotes
    I was at the [receiving end] of repeated acts of random violence at the hands of Miscavige.” (ABC News report, Oct. 22, 2009, http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/scientology/scientologists-level-accusations/story?id=8792417)
       “I was physically assaulted some fifty times by David Miscavige.” (CNN report, Mar. 30, 2010, http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/30/scientology.violence/index.html)
       “[His physical assaults on me] happened more than once.  He’s a very volatile personality.  He will lash out for uncalled-for reasons.” (Australian News Channel 7 “Today Tonight” Interview, July 22, 2010, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOv0LtzXlx4)
       “There is no doubt that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of others who would tell the same stories of their experiences [with Miscavige] if they weren’t being coerced into silence either by threat of disconnection from their families, loss of job or legal action being brought against them.” (Comment at https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/)
       “Where is Heber [Jentzch]? … The answer is simple: Miscavige hates Heber. … Heber has not only witnessed Miscavige-brand physical and mental abuse, he has experienced it firsthand. … I have seen Miscavige strike Heber on at least 10 occasions.”  (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/

    Janela Webster quote
    Janela Webster (former head of AVC International, RTC, 1990 – 2007) made these comments in April 2010:
    “I am writing this to make it known my own personal experience with the physical and emotional abuse I either witnessed or experienced from David Miscavige. … Norman Starkey: how could you stand up [on CNN] and lie about David Miscavige not laying a hand on you? I was standing right there in the office when he just walked up to you and boxed you in the ears with no concern whatsoever. And you, a senior citizen in your ‘60s? … While I have my own personal experiences of being thrown in the lake; sleep deprivation; being incarcerated on the Int base and forced to sleep on a cot in my office for 7 months; starved on a diet of rice and beans for weeks; the most destructive and painful of all was the forced disconnection from my daughter in 2001.” (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/)

    Read more ~~~

  14. “A video tape was forwarded to me by two alert public that captured one of their attempted brainwashing sessions. They are laughable.”

    I think the world could use some more laughs ….where can we see this footage?

  15. I really appreciate this post, Marty. Especially the fact you point out at the end:

    “It can also do wonders for your own de-PTSing process.”

    Spot on.

    Running into an OT VIII the other day, currently the OT Committee chairperson, really did de-PTS me noticeably. This person could not keep her TR’s in, yet I really did which made it easy to spot some more truth about the actual scene inside the church. It is dead. It is criminal. It’s members, if currently in support of DM’s big dose of crazy, have very little actual confront and have all but forgotten who they were when they were younger and were just being themselves, enjoying movies, hanging out with friends, listening to their favorite music, being in love, laughing, etc.

    It’s very simple, actually….
    Support DM and you lose everything because you have lost yourself.

    I think a big part of PTSness is our own mental outlook. After all, we couldn’t be PTS unless we first agreed to it.

    Once you’ve de-stimulated long enough and then suddenly run into a churchie , if you can stay very relaxed and aware and simply obnose what stands before you in terms of valences and overall discomfort, you will come a long way in your de-PTSing right then and there.

    In a way, the enemy just became much smaller (pun intended).

    Thanks for your work on all of this!

  16. Too bad, Stahli was a decent guy 20 years ago. Never met Sutter.

  17. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. Great advice.

  18. Is one of these guys the big dude from the Upper Indoc film?

  19. martyrathbun09

    I agree “Downfall” is a great film that is useful in evaluating what we are facing.

  20. martyrathbun09

    Veritas, you are too much.

  21. Note to Hansuli —

    Read this:


    Scroll down to Tom Martiniano and remember — he’s got our back.



  22. Marty can’t show this video without exposing intelligence assets – at least not until those folks are ready to public break with Co$.

    Michael A. Hobson

  23. Well, now you’ve sunk to the level of calling people NAZIs.

    I doubt it was intended, but your posting gives the apparency that these individuals have done something effective in applying LRH policy on Suppressive Persons to you and your squirrel group. You would not be complaining if this were not the case. Before calling them incompetent, bumbling fools, you should take a look at yourself in the mirror. Or better yet, take a look at the mug shot of yourself (the pot is calling the kettle black).

  24. Marty cannot post the video without outing the people who provided it!

    Until they are ready to publically break with Co$, we’ll just have to wait.

    Michael A. Hobson

  25. Scroll down til you read: Tom Martiniano.

    On second thought – Hansuli – you best not come alone. Bring oh — I don’t know maybe 200 – 300 hundred …

    Even surrounded by that many — he was able to save many of his men.

    You didn’t know???

    Always a good idea to know who you are dealing with.

    Doncha think?


  26. Ouch !
    Mike Sutter offering to kill for DM….correct link

  27. Gary Morehead aka "Jackson"


  28. Keep up the good work mr. Rathbun! Bring down the cult!

  29. Yes the video would confrim peoples knowingness

  30. You’re funny VS. Why are you ignoring the elephant in the room?

    There are now over a dozen people, all using their real names, with firsthand accounts of Miscavige’s violent behavior. And they all corroborate Marty’s accounts. People like Mike Rinder, Janela Webster, Amy Scobee, Karen Pressley, Jeff Hawkins, Tom De Vocht, Steve Hall, Dan Koon, Gary “Jackson” Moorhead, Eric Knutson, Mark Fisher, Bruce Hines, John Peeler.

    Miscavige’s violence can no longer be denied or swept under the rug, hoping people won’t notice.

    Why do you continue to support and defend this type of criminal behavior?

  31. Cute Troll is cute

  32. Huh? You’ve obviously responded to the wrong post if you saw something about being effective.

  33. clicked on the leak says cant be found

  34. Very nicely put Tony

  35. Why on earth weren’t police called to investigate the beatings at the time

  36. yes the video is important

  37. Well said Marthy

  38. VS,
    I almost admire your utter inability to accurately duplicate what has been written here.

    Your pink sheet assignment: HCOPL “ROBOTISM”

  39. Great reporting! Take away the “mystery” …..and there goes most of the fear as well! ….let’s leave them “stripped naked” to show everybody that the Emperor’s “new clothes” are imaginary… he is just a naked little man on his bully pulpit like a modern day version of Musolini… no reason to fear his screaming rants!

  40. Ha ha VS
    Comic relief is the highest level of effectiveness you could aim for here.
    You claim that this posting is merely a reaction to the effectiveness of OSA’s tactics and yet… Here you are! An OSA bot in the flesh come to heckle and complain no less.
    Not only do you quite severely underestimate this group but you verily overestimate your own ability to needle or upset.
    Behold the torrent of derisive humor about to fall upon your head as a result of your pathetic platitudes.
    Get a life.

  41. RTC is dead.

    It is time for fear to end.

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.”
    – Sun Tzu

  42. Talking of mug shots ‘VS’ how about we see one of you?
    Or are you really really scared underneath all of that strained criticism?

  43. VS
    Are you Danny Sherman ? I had no idea you were doing so much dirty work for DM. Thanks for the Email from this Hushmail account


    The posting above sounds just like you.
    Why do you continue to make a fool of yourself ?
    Do you really feel you belong on this board?
    Interested parties have pieced together your “handlings” of those who whistleblow on the internet.

    The next time a Dirty Ops is run on me, or I hear from you or anyone in “Office of COB” ~~~~ I plan on publishing my recent letter to Elliot Abelson…….sunshine disinfects.

    Hey Sherman ~~
    Why is it that Marty and Mike have 20 ex RTC that fled DM’s psychosis?
    Are all Ex- RTC (that flee) SP ?
    Does DM only recruit SPs to RTC ??????????

  44. “…..Treason mission from Miscavige’s perspective. From our point of view, they are in Power…”
    Could it be, they are in the deepest confusion of confusions below Confusion and from the Indies point of view in Super Power? 🙂

  45. VS I’m going to sink to the level of calling you a ding dong. Because, guess what? People complain for valid reasons.

    How do you do that? Convince people that if they complain when you stick them with pins it means they are evil?

    If you think you can slap and slander people, abuse minister privilege by violating the sanctity of pc folders, abuse and embezzle people in the name of L. Ron Hubbard, alter the writings of the creator of Scientology for your agendas, which include keeping people introverted, scared and and dumbed down … and then point at anyone who says “No!” as an Suppressive Person, if you genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with that, then you are a danger to society and to yourself.

    Nazi is as Nazi does.

    Overdoing shots in the French Quarter is not even the same ballpark as your game. It’s not at all the same thing as RTC keystone cops trying to squash valid complaints about the abuse and misuse of Scientology. And doing so via conniving, illegal, and indecent abuses. That kind of evil gets stupid and bumbling, see?

    Radical zealotry…in service to what? who is your enemy here? People who love LRH? People who won’t be told what to think? People who want the true purpose of Scientology to be upheld without hypocrisy and smarmy other Miscavigisms? Quit kicking the cats. MEOOOWW.

  46. Karen #1. When I tried the link, it did not work.

  47. Michael Hobson said: “Marty cannot post the video without outing the people who provided it! Until they are ready to publically break with Co$, we’ll just have to wait.”

    If they’re already being visited by the Miscavige SS, don’t ya think it’s a little too late for confidentiality. Honestly, think about that. What’s there to lose?

    Like I said, please post the video.

  48. I have been surprised by the number (about four) of C OS active members who are expressing VERY negative opinions about Miscavige to me. I think the last straw for the guys I’m talking about was the big book pulping thing that started in spring 2009 (or so). That was SO patently ridiculous – plus the rumors of deletions/alterations from tapes have spread into the C of S field.

    At first I thought some of these guys might be plants, trying to sucker me into “disloyal” statements so I could be neatly expelled, but apparently not. This may seem a bit absurd, but I have the goal of never being expelled from the C of S before MISCAVIGE is – then I want to have some conversations with various sheepish sheeple, just to hear how they justify having been mindlessly loyal zombies all those years. In the meantime I get to hear all the latest nonsense from the remaining churchies, and still associate with Indies.

    It’s a bit arbitrary – frankly, I would never want to subordinate myself to ANYTHING resembling the COS ever again, Miscavige or NO Miscavige. Those days are long gone, there COULD have been a Sea Org, perhaps, but that moment has long passed, too many years, too many abuses and stupidities.

    There were some exciting times, particularly in the 60s and 70s – I’m glad to have been there…..nothing like getting fresh, newly written HCOPLs hot off the mimeo machine! I’ll never run out THAT smell! (pleasure moment)

  49. Dark And Light Wizard

    Considering RTC is dead like Morten Astrue-whatever is name was- Marty’s post the other day. Then who will be responsible for applying point seven of LRH’s major policy request of 7 th Feb 1965; KSW: HAMMERING OUT OF EXISTENCE INCORRECT TECHNOLOGY ?

    The Wizard

  50. These reposts (TR-3) of explosive outpoints are an important action.


    Visibility is important.

  51. crashingupwards

    VS, If good people do not speak up, the abuse continues. It takes confront, courage and a moral purpose.

    You need to regain all three of the above. Your post is a meaningless attempt to slow down a train which will not be stopped. You cannot dispute the facts presented on the abuses and corruption within the organization with generalties. Your wasting your time. People posting and reading here are not fools, sheep or easily led.

    Wouldnt it be nice to make the break on your own, regain your integrity and independence and maybee even help someone along the way. Get out now. Your life purpose is becomming smothered by being the dupe who has to get his stats up by posting e-mails attacking well-intentioned men and women. Get out now. Your words are meaningless and do not impinge. I respond only because I have been where you are and want you free to pursue a life of your own choosing. In your heart you know where the truth lies and where the hope lies as well. Good luck on getting out. Let your conscience be your guide.

  52. Independent Scientologist

    I think that everyone who reads and comments regularly on this blog would agree that DM just cannot go on in this fashion indefinitely. At some point he truly will drive the church into the ground and either be forced out or (more likely) abscond to South American with a pile of cash.

    So I’m trying to envision what will happen to the church and Scientology generally when he is gone. Marty has said that the church doesn’t matter because it’s dead. I take that to mean “cannot be revived, no way, no how.”

    But the Sea Org crew, the staff of the Class V Orgs, the public, the OTs – do they wake up at that point and experience a thorough de-PTSing? Do they experience enormous latent gains from their Scientology auditing and training? Is that the renaissance we can hope for on the 4th dynamic in the post-DM era?

  53. VS,
    Actually, I think the denouement was ‘Keystone Kops’. Anyway, that’s not the point now is it.

    You have made reference to LRH material on PTS/SP being applied effectively. Could you elaborate? Or is the mudslinging the extent of this foray into the land of us?

    You can write me at home too. slogan@eastlink.ca.

  54. Watching Eyes

    If your comment is the best the dwarf has to offer, he’s worse off than I thought.
    Now, go back to the dwarf and ask him these questions:
    When is he going to stop hiding out?
    What is it that he’s so afraid of?
    When will he publicly address the accusations of the beatings?
    What’s up with the new meters that have been sitting in a warehouse for five years?
    Ask him to show you the LRH policy on ideal orgs.
    Then run for your life because you’re going to find you’re his new target. Run!

  55. While VS sounds like an OSA agent to me, I unfortunately still have to agree in some respects.
    Even though I have been actively protesting the Scientology organisation over the last two years, I have to acknowledge that the atrocities committed by the SS and Gestapo can on no level be compared to what has been done and continues to go on in the Co$ to this day.
    Nazi comparisons are definitely overused and would be more appropriate when speaking in the context of the Red Khmer or what Stalin did to his own people.

    If you get hooked by German histrory, a more apt comparison in my opinion would be Scientology to the former GDR which built an elaborate system of informers that would spy on the opinions of normal citizens and give them away to the government if it was deemed “anti-communist”.

  56. Tommy,
    I asked for a meeting too. No response. Geez Mike, it’s been so long since we spoke, I thought it would be nice for a reunion.

    It’ll be a li’l different now.

  57. Yes, the film really gives an interesting psychological insight into a man who knew he was finished but kept going to the bitter end in a state of delusion. Some of these aspects might indeed transfer to Miscavige once the cult goes down.

    However, I’m wondering, isn’t Miscavige bunkering in pretty much what he’s been doing in the last ten years or from the start of his reign? I mean he was extremely reclusive before the appearance of anon and you, and he seems pretty much doing what he was doing before .. sending others out to do his dirty laundry, jetsetting around opening ideal morgues etc… or is there a noticeable reduction in public appearences? I remember seeing some magazine posts with Laurisse Stuckenbrock, him, Tom Cruise and Katie, and that he was not present at one of his grand “events” a year ago or so. Just asking out of curiosity.

  58. This comparison is closer to the truth than some (even including some Indies) might credit it to be. Hard-line CofM members will discard it out of hand without even so much as peeping, let alone really looking (like “VS” seems to be – or is it actually OSA? For who else is “allowed” to be on this site and even leave a “trace”, i.e. a comment?)

    My estimate is that you will see as much similarities depending on how much reality you (personally) have – on BOTH sides. Right, that is Nazis AND Scientology.

    Do a bit of Googling in case you think I am only making it up here. Most of it is covered extensively in Wikipedia.

    The Nazis had “successors” in the East German part (called GDR and that was under communist dictatorship). It continued to spy on and control the public. ANY utterance against the government = trouble and even prison.

    The GO had a “successor” and was called OSA (with MANY ex-GO now being “new OSA”). The SAME practice was applied in the “new West Germany” after WWII – the “ex Nazis” became the “new Democrats” with many retaining their official positions – just a prominent example – the co-author of the Nazi Race Laws became a close advisor to the first Chanellor after WWII).

    I just give you a few Wikipedia links in case you are lacking mass:

    However, there are more similarities between Nazis/GDR and current RTC/OSA and that is how they ended. The first ones mentioned died a historical death and for RTC/OSA I predict their end to be very similar too:

    The Nazis ended at the Nuremburg Trial with many hangings and some of the accused committed suicide before facing their death sentences.

    The GDR was “overthrown” by the population after more and more and then much more rallied to the freedom call. No more spying. No more prisons. No more disconnections from family and friends because of “different opinions” (that is actually GDR stuff, I am not referring to the CofM disconnection practice). It all ended at a huge public party at the Berlin Wall when it finally opened.

    If you have any personal knowledge of at least some of the organizations mentioned above the questions is not whether there is a similarity – the hard part is to find where they differ (the Nazi’s wore brown uniforms – the hues of their actions differ but it is the same color of dirt).

    If you take Science of Survival and have at least some personal reality on the validity of the predictions concerning low toned individuals and groups – that is how they die and they try to take as many with them in doing so.

    LOOK – and once you see – JUMP from that sinking ship.

    Samuel (who has a personal reality on what he is talking about above)

  59. Tom, Not only do you do ‘sudden’ good but I am convinced you can
    back it up!

  60. martyrathbun09

    Good point. In that respect, I’d second WH’s suggestions to see the movie “Other People’s Lives.”

  61. IS,
    Dude, you get what you postulate. You get what you put energy into. What do YOU want for your 3rd and 4th Dynamics?

  62. martyrathbun09

    If they are so damn effective, why does he think I am encouraging people to see dynamic duo?

  63. martyrathbun09

    No it isn’t. Invite them to your home and see for yourself.

  64. Herr Dok,
    The point is it is a DRAMATIZATION. That is, a record playing off. It doesn’t matter the ‘label’, it has the same source, Mr. Mind.

  65. martyrathbun09

    Jackson, ?

  66. Sam,
    I referred them to Sun Tzu a couple of days ago. That is a perfect quote.
    Then, it’s from Sam.

  67. What are the computer hacking capabilities of the Church?

    Who staffs these units, where are they based, and what are the procedures they follow to gain intel on people through their computers?

    What intel has been gained in the past through computer hacking, on whom, and how has it been used?

  68. veritas,
    You’ve gone pretty far with ‘ding dong’. I’ll cross the line, as is usual, and bring up ‘poo-face’.

  69. You mean this one?
    I’ve already seen it of course, and yes, I liked it very much, too 🙂

    On a related note, the director of this movie, Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck is best buddies with Tom Cruise. If I recall correctly, he also wrote an open letter supporting Cruise in his wish to shoot on historic locations in Berlin. It was originally denied because it was feared Cruise’s movie really was designed to heighten acceptance of the Church of Scientology in Germany, but later this denial was overturned.

    Back to the original topic: in the respect of good movies with the GDR at subject, I can also recommend these, which both have elements of a tragicomedy:

    “Good Bye, Lenin!”
    and the last one being “Sun Alley”, which is a bit “teeny” but with much more depth than the usual american teeny movies like “American Pie”.

  70. VS, are you posting here because no one reads Religious Freedom Watch anymore? Your efforts to stop communication say volumes about yourself and others who support Miscavige and his minions.

    Try reading more of this blog and if your head does not explode, you may find that there is much that can make your life better.

    Handling suppression is everybody’s business. You have more of it on your lines than any of the Indies and Scientology Underground people who post comments here.

  71. crashing upwards, You are right about speaking out against injustice…

    Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.– MLK

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.– MLK

    He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetuate it. He who accepts evil without protesting it is really cooperating with it.– MLK

  72. Marty,
    I asked this earlier but it must have got missed. As I understand it, you were with LRH when he died. Reports show that he had enough Vistarol in him to kill him and a bunch of fresh hypo marks. Are you able to talk about this yet? Will it be in your book?

  73. Dr. Faust,

    You wrote: “Even though I have been actively protesting the Scientology organisation over the last two years, I have to acknowledge that the atrocities committed by the SS and Gestapo can on no level be compared to what has been done and continues to go on in the Co$ to this day.”

    In your statement you touch on an interesting point, something I have been wondering about for for some time — I have to take it that you are not a Scientologist or you would have said so.

    If the abuse that goes on in Scientology cannot really be compared with the terrible abuses that have taken place on this planet in times past and which still take place, in one form or an other, in various cities and countries around the world, why do you protest Scientology and not those other, more terrible abuses?

    To a Scientologist, what has happened to their church is of course of great interest. But to someone wishing to protest gross abuse in this big wide world, who has never been a Scientologist … I’m sorry but I can’t help thinking of Tom’s brilliant “easy kill” story posted above.


  74. Since there have been so many requests to see the video I’ve decided to post it even if Marty won’t. Enjoy!

  75. Theo Sismanides

    Talking about the Nazis here, I just wanted to create the idea of D Day!! Let’s get one! What do you think guys? There’s a D Day to Nazi Germany. So, let’s see what’s it gonna be on RTC.

  76. martyrathbun09

    TEG, you’ve hacked my computer. Good on you.

  77. martyrathbun09

    Your question is loaded with an assumed falsehood (actually created). You’ll learn the truth.

  78. VS

    “Or better yet, take a look at the mug shot of yourself (the pot is calling the kettle black).”

    Wow! That one must have sent Marty reeling! You slashed him to the bone with that retort! Boy, you’ve done some damage now! I doubt Marty will ever be willing to say another word against the crimes of the c of m now, you’ve so completely put him in his place! What a crazy, wicked, brilliant retort! Who ARE you? Are you the secret weapon OSA has been holding back, but who will now be unleashed upon all the evil SP’s in the world?

    Oh God! We’re beat! We’re doomed. With intellect and wit like that on his side, dm will crush us all.

  79. Dark And Light Wizard

    Hey Jim. IS it not also advisable to distinguishing between the Bunny Boilers or Boilers ( The wicked witch SP as above) – AS we wizards call them at wizard HQ ( Boilers) and the Carriers; The flying monkeys… er I mean anti-social type persons and Potential Trouble Sources ( can be) like as described in LRH’s “Introduction To Scientology Ethics” book, whom do the bidding or carry the message or covert orders of the boilers-I mean; (Suppresive type persons). The Carriers are easy to spot but the Boilers are not as they are earlier in the command channel and do’nt all have green faces apparently. I am sure not all Nazi’s were inherently bad.


  80. Good. More Independents for us!

  81. Virgil Samms

    Jim, let’s you and I go visit them! Bring your bathing suit.

  82. CLASSIC… and perfect!! 🙂

  83. VS,

    If you are Danny Sherman, you know in your heart, bones and soul how ashamed Trevor would be if he were still with us, seeing how you’ve spent and continue to spend your gifts and your life.

    I have no knowledge of your other options at this point or how much resilience you still have. But you are not so blind you cannot see that what is happening here is real, that it’s based on real truth (not truthiness) and of great importance.

    Danny. This is me talking. Man, wake up. Please.

    Just Me

  84. Virgil Samms


    You mean SS&M have been “on mission” for 10 months and have only returned 3 to the fold? Good lord their batting average is worse than the Chicago Cubs! I mean, they are telling these “disaffected” public and ex-staff that Marty, Mike and the rest of us are real live SPs aren’t they? Shouldn’t that turn these people around? No?

    It appears to me that if Marty, SS&M visited some disaffected public that Marty would walk away with not only the public but probably SS&M as well because whatever SS&M is telling public ain’t working and they ain’t believing it themselves.

    ML Tom

  85. I dont know about D Day, but here is a recent RTC rally video, they look pretty happy to me, not sure about the audience though 🙂

    Good to be back, been on holiday.

  86. OTater/GaryLerner

    Beautiful!!! 😉

    Truth as-ises V. S. (vicious stupidty)

    Love & ARC,


  87. Eileen Clark

    The SS are running amok in the area I recently moved from. I’m really disappointed that they waited until I was gone, would have loved to see you again Hansuili. Last time was that night you and several other execs got to meet all the prospective candidates for Captain of the future Freewinds and selected Mike Napier for the job and me and Dave Englehart were ordered to take all night if needed to get him to sign up. Being good little soldiers at that time, we did. He sure turned out to be a personal disappointment to me, but not to you guys, eh? Got rid of his wife right nicely, and seems to have the dm-given right to schtoop whomever he chooses these days. Nice work, good little SS dopes. You and Napier make me puke.

    Won’t you please come by and visit me? I’m not as easily scared as some other females you tried to intimidate recently. Come on, my door is open. Even I can whip your asses, punks.

    Eileen Clark

  88. I think the only RTC member that has been able to hold a position in space is you Marty. You have somehow managed not to be unmocked. Shifting location was brilliant. When I first got involved in Scientology the staff were caring and respectful of all of the public. If someone, anyone, was in an arcX someone was sent to their home right away to clear things up. But over the last 30 years if someone is upset they just get hit with golden rod. It would be interesting to know if these guys are truly working to clean up the field or digging for declares. Anyway, 30 years is a long time to go without caring about your customers and what they are thinking and doing. But, O.K., we’ll see if they come by here I’ll have some brownies and milk waiting for them. I have some powerful good brownies.

  89. WH, You are just too cute. I love the ‘Remus’ stories. Love

  90. There is a documentary film being released this August 18th. It has won awards at Sundance and other film festivals. The footage of this film was shot in May of 1942 inside the Warsaw Ghetto. Take a look at the trailer. ” A FILM UNFINISHED can be viewed on many levels from many views.

    No offense to anyone who reads this blog or connected in someway with SCN’s space and particularly DM , his troops and anyone honestly serious about freedom.

    The expression “You had to be there…” Well, this film puts one inside the Ghetto in May of 1942. At that time the Nazi’s had already planned the final destruction of the Jews and leveling of the Warsaw Ghetto. By April 1943 just about everyone in the Ghetto was exterminated.

    The film was found after the war and was 2 reels. The film confused researchers as it was hard to understand. Many “oddities” were in the film.

    Years later at different times 2 more reels were found. One was of outtakes. It showed how the Nazi’s staged most of the scenes in this movie in the Warsaw Ghetto with people dying on the street right in front of the camera crew. For some scenes actors were brought in.

    As it turns out the film was apparently shot to show the “future Nazi’s” how awful the Jews were!

    The truth always comes out and sets things right.

    Do yourselves and your families and friends a favor and see this film. Please keep your remarks about the Ghetto and Jews respectful.

    DM is an amateur as well as Crusie. At this point they are using Hitler’s playbook.

    Be Well

  91. Marty, im from Italy, im a indipendent scientologist at the Heart.
    I hope see you soon.

  92. Why not just tell me now? Is it going to be in your book? What is the purpose of waiting to reveal what happened? Also, what are you saying is the falsehood? This is what the autopsy showed. You were in close contact with DM back then weren’t you?

    The truth is badly needed on what happened here. Just looking at the facts, it appears that LRH was murdered and it appears that you know what happened. Seems like an important thing for you to fill us in on, right?

  93. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Welcome to our group, VS!

    I’m sure that reading here about the overts being exposed of the Church of Scientology and David Miscavage can be quite rattling to one’s stable datums.

    Continue to confront and duplicate, and it will get easier to understand and acknowledge, I promise. (Of course, as I’m sure you know, fully apply Study Tech here too.)

    Here’s a quick and easy way for you to the spot tone level of anybody, but most importantly here, the church and David Miscavage.

    Which method of control (and any combination thereof) is being used on you by others?

    #1 – Cooperation
    #2 – Domination (punishment drive)
    #3 – Nullification

    Read more about it in Science of Survival (Book One, Chapter 27 “Method Used By Subject To Handle Others”)

    As for yourself, which method of control are you trying to use here?

  94. That’s a good question! And I have thought about it myself for quite a while. I’ll try to explain.

    Of course there are things happening all over the world that are much worse than what the Co$ does. Like ethnic cleansing in some countries of Africa. However, these things are very far away. And with that I don’t only mean far away as in “distance” but also emotionally. I don’t know these people. On the other hand, here is an organisation that wants to have an impact here in our world where we live.
    There are people here protesting against nuclear power and the handling of dry cask storage. Then there are people protesting against G9 conferences. I happen to protest in front of Scientology buildings. Truth of the matter is, I have gotten immersed in this topic, I kind of stumbled over it by accident and I have to admit, it is quite fascinating to learn about the universe that Hubbard created and what Scientologists believe in. That’s why I stuck with it. Who knows for how long still? Maybe I’ll move on in a year. Maybe not. I don’t plan much in advance. Time will tell.

  95. Last time I saw Sutter was when he showed up with McShane after I left the SO. They showed up after I noticed PIs parked and watching. During a meeting with the two in which it was established that I was not returning with them, Sutter asked me how much I wanted for a personal Yamaha motorcycle I had at the Int Base. Though I asked for 1/3rd of it’s worth, I was never compensated for it and still have the pink slip.

    Just so you know the integrity and honesty level of RTC under the Fuhrer (oops, I mean Dear Leader, if that’s more appropriate with VS or Snowhite) which Sutter represents by personal experience.

  96. V, I love it when you get ‘sudden’ and oh my are you good! Love!

  97. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    All scientologists.

    Right now, it’s only the de-PTS’ed scientologists from David Miscavage’s control who are keeping scientology working. But eventually (hopefully soon!), all scientologists (including church scientologists) will be doing what RTC utterly failed to do.

  98. For those not familiar with this superb film, here is the climactic scene with DM in the starring role: http://www.scientology-cult.com/videos/humor.html.

  99. Major, One thing that friends with integrity don’t do is betray a trust.

  100. Fabulous film, correctly titled “The Lives of Others.” No car crashes, no cop chases or exploding body parts but very gripping emotionally. I did work for a woman who grew up in East Germany and she said the film was an accurate portrayal of what went on there.

  101. (1) No, Marty Rathbun was never at Creston Ranch or even Winter HQ when Ron Hubbard was alive – Steve “Sarge” Pfauth could confirm the former and he & Sinar Parmon could confirm the latter.

    (2) The official Hubbard autopsy report said no such thing and has been posted online at numerous sites.

    (3) either you are greatly misinformed or you are deliberately spreading disinformation.

    Michael A. Hobson

  102. – Hitler and the current Church of Scientology –

    Marty’s entry got me to looking at some other comparisons to Hitler and Germany…
    How could Hitler dupe an entire nation and lead them towards a destructive end?

    We now know that Hitler had his own parliment building burned down (Reichstag fire) in order to gain support and oust opposition (declaring people communists). We know that he utilized a whole series of methods to rise to power and hold onto that power. We know that the pretext for the invasion of Poland was a false-flag event.

    Hitler created a “group think”. So has Miscavige.

    What is significant is that Hitler effectively duped the common man.
    The public were ‘played’.
    The public were chumps.
    And it was prohibited to speak out against any of the 3rd Reich injustices. “The White Rose” type activity would be squashed. In effect, the public had limited observation and information while being surrounded by the “group think”.

    In the Church of Miscavige today, any voice against this Hitler’s regime is quickly suppressed. Public are not aware of, nor allowed to even ‘look’ at, the testimonies and observations of others who bring up the outpoints.

    The Public is duped. The public is so duped that the “group think” opposes looking at the truth.

    The White Rose – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

    This whole road has been an enlightening experience…
    I am much less naive than I was 5 years ago.
    We know about Hitler duping a nation, we know about Miscavige duping a church. It would be silly to think that there are no other current examples of public being duped by governments or corporations.

  103. Wizard, Thats your job. If you are a wizard, do it!

  104. Sam, I’m especially fond of you.

  105. WH,

    Oooooh, you wicked, wicked person you! How could you? Overwhelm DM’s little boys like that? Tut, tut.

    p.s. Good job. Keep it up 🙂

  106. IS, My prediction is that the ‘Lemmings’ will need a leader and appoint
    one. And follow one. I can’t speak for anyone else but I would be happy
    with ‘standard tech’ to get me to a point where I don’t need help but
    need to help. And I will.

  107. Thanks Karen#1 for that synopsis – what a horror!

  108. Eileen Clark

    Interesting. What Dan Garvin didn’t know is that the whole Christofferson case was manufactured out of whole cloth by a single meglomaniac out of the same mold as David Miscavige. Ken Wasserman thought he was the answer to everything and that he knew best about how to handle a young woman who wanted her $50 back for a course she didn’t like. His ‘solution and handling’ did not, of course, adhere to the LRH policy of giving her back the money and ending cycle on it. The poor guys at COSMOD were trying to do a standard, by the book handling, but Kenny knew better. He was the the almighty learned one who almost daily could be heard on the phone to them, giving them direction on how to handle Julie Christofferson. The entire f**k’d up waste of time and money and resources was carefully orchestrated by Kenneth Wasserman, brilliant lawyer that he is (not). He is not entirely stupid, however, as he did manage to get paid off handsomely in the end to shut up and go away. He is a coward, liar and extortionist; physically attacked me, banged my head hard against a metal filing cabinet and tried to choke me because I got in his face and told him so, Walt Kresse (R.I.P) and Norm Taylor had to get him off of me….in other words, he is a snake. If he had stayed around he would no doubt be part of the SS RS.

    Hansuili and Mike, please come visit me. Walt and Normie won’t be there, but Tom is…heheheheh…the two of us would looooove to see you.


  109. Whoa- for what its worth:
    If inquiring minds want to know- REALLY know- about what is actually and has actually been going on- they would cut to the chase and seek out and read the testimonials, stories from the former top CofS senior executives. The common tread is UNDENIABLE: what motivated their declares was simply that they cried “enough” and refused to be party to the dirty tricks, the lies and deception and blathat was being run on unsuspecting staff and public by a handful of people in control. Not “management”, not the SO, but a handful of individuals. These individuals have duped many by reverse use of the tech. Their INTENTIONS ultimately tell the story.The senior execs of Scientology who are no longer there were declared mainly on trumped up charges because they REFUSED to continue to be party to the deception and power plays. No one is perfect, and YES there are SPs (Dear Leader being one of them), but NO, these former executives do NOT fall into that category.

    That’s my take on it and I’m stickin’ to it.

  110. Eileen Clark

    David Miscavige is bringing down the C of S.
    We are only doing a running commentary of how he is doing it.

  111. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Mike – but you don’t have the facts either.

  112. Why use hammers?

    I’ll be the first to admit that in both fighting FOR Scientology and fighting AGAINST Scientology, I’ve used the as instructed “hammers” many times. Even recently. And, I’ve found for myself, that hammering isn’t always the best or most effective tool to use.

    I’ve found that Bruce Lee Tech is way more effective in most cases these days:

    “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless – like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”

    “Notice that the stiffest tree is most easily cracked, while the bamboo or willow survives by bending with the wind.”

    “All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns.”

  113. Ackerland~thanks for the links – makes them much easier to find on Netflix.

  114. martyrathbun09

    because I dont have an R6 bank, and I don’t want to restimulate yours. I am going to give the truth in context where it has meaning, and not simple titillation value.

  115. Eileen Clark

    D&L Pizzard,
    Go somewhere else and get a life.

  116. martyrathbun09

    That is if you are a one-lifer and you consider body death more important than spiritual death.

  117. Eileen Clark

    How do you feel about all those sheeple, who despite heavy heavy evidence to prove that their ‘church’ is no longer extant, being your friends? Do you suppose they are adhering to LRH Policy and Tech? Do you suppose they are Standard? Do you suppose they have a speck of spine? Anyone who knows even the smallest little bit about anything that has happened over the past 10-30 years and has even the slightest duplication and understanding of LRH Tech and Policy, but remains in support of David Miscavige is at the very best an Enemy of LRH.

    I am sorry if anyone finds that offensive. However, enough is enough is enough is enough. How much longer does it have to go on and how much more destruction and abuse needs to occur before there is sufficient evidence to make up one’s mind? Give me a break.


  118. RTC = Virus
    Independants = antibodies

    Continue with dosage until all traces of virus are neutralized and eliminated.

  119. Two church pod people (men) are touring the northern Calif area. They offered free plane fare if this unmentioned person would go back to Flag. Free plane fare!! I wonder if they’re giving free accomos too. Maybe some free auditing too? It’s getting to the point where they can’t give this stuff away.

    Be warned: These two men are asking people to go back to their hotel room with them. God help anyone who is stupid enough to do that.

  120. Hadley and Dean ~
    Did you see the correction ?
    Mike Sutter offering to do a homicide for DM is posted by Dan Garvin here

  121. Thank you Jesus 😉

  122. Jim
    I think ‘poo face’ trumps all – although ‘ding dong’ comes close I gotta say.

  123. When I was last at the Base (early 2005), Hansueli Stahli had been assigned to be the Galley Garbageman by DM, considered the lowest, most degrading post on the Base. Mike Sutter had been assigned to the CD Manufacturing line, also a lowly post. They were both groveling to get back in DM’s favor. Lest one think DM has sent out his top trusted lieutenants, that’s not the case (he trusts no one). They were probably assigned this mission as a last-ditch, do-or-die attempt to redeem themselves, and I would not be surprised if they have “conditional SP Declares” issued on them, but “held in abeyance” pending their successful completion of the mission. That’s a standard DM tactic. I would imagine they are running scared.

  124. Sarge, beautifully stated.

  125. Tom,
    The sickly cougar going for the easy kill – Brilliant analogy!!!!

  126. TL Lets Look :
    Good Comparisons, thank you.
    There is one action that DM and his henchmen do which is extremely harmful, worse than anything done in the Hitler duped nation. That is screwing up the mind of the pc.

    Screaming 8 hours a a day “what are your crimes ?”. Unmerciful sec checking ~~ hauled out of bed, police meter interrogations ~ using the meter as a polygraph ~~ hour after hour.
    Seances at Int base where all in the SP Hole turn on one person.
    One example of this is Debbie Cook, the Former Captain of FSO and what she endured in the SP Hole
    New readers scroll down and read all

    Overwhelming the mind of the victim with reverse Dianetics, horrific Sec check sessions pulverize the MIND of the victim which is sometimes much more punishment than the physical incarceration because the pc is STUCK at that point.
    The fact that DM metes out this kind of punishment as head of “Church” is unconscionable.
    “Ministerial exception” indeed.

  127. Aleister, I haven’t a clue what you are talking about. Manhole cover. Butterfly. Chick pea.

  128. Mike, Thanks buddy. Marty will tell everyone when the time comes.
    I) Marty was not at Creston when LRH dropped the body. 2) LRH
    was not murdered.

  129. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    “It would be silly to think that there are no other current examples of public being duped by governments or corporations.”

    Awesome TL.

    911 is another fairly current example of duping most people. http://ae911truth.org/

    (However, 1247 architectural and engineering professionals are no longer duped or suffer stupidity on the subject.)

    Unknown to most church scientologists, these well-meaning, good-hearted scientologists are suffering from massive stupidity being under David Miscavage’s control and influence. They’re severely PTS which, of course, causes unbelievable and obvious stupidity to the rest of us observers, scientologists or not who are not PTS.

    The product of SP’s are stupid and dead people.

    Definition of Stupidity:

    “… is the unknownness of time, place, form and event.”

    Source: 1979 Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary

    If you’re a church scientologist reading this …

    Find out if there is something you should know that the CoS may not want you to know. Hint: Look where they tell you NOT to look.

    Make sure you’re not suffering from stupidity as defined by LRH.

  130. I hear ya! I have personal experiences too…(like being gang stripped naked). …and there are the other flows. Unfortunately, aberration is so contagious with “group think”. I have been duped by “group think” on a number of fronts (including the 9/11 official story).

    I liked this write-up “Mechanisms of Miscavige”.

  131. Yes fresh off the mimeo machine, Molly the famous Typist for LRH was allways very busy typing madley away in the Manor.This made me smile OT VIII

  132. Virgil Samms

    Actually Karin, right now Martyhas more RTC and CMOI staff under him than RTC and CMOI currently has.

    ML Tom

  133. Virgil Samms

    Wow Marty, this is getting interesting: Friendly people commmenting with knives behind backs.

    ML Tom

  134. Tom, that’s all I know of. If they don’t have family members hostage they have no chance, except in the case of Neel (and Ian Cunningham who had designs on Neel).

  135. Carol, don’t forget the free toaster (OSAI throws that one in).

    ML Tom

  136. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    I sure hear you Eileen!

    I don’t know WHAT they’re practicing inside it CoS, but it surely isn’t scientology!

    Clearly, most church scientologists are PTS Type 2 and don’t know it. They can’t name an SP. Of course, we know the main dude is David Miscavage. But DM is such a cunning 1.1., they can’t see that.

    The idea of David Miscavage being an SP is an extreme amount of evil for one to confront.

    (I ack everybody on this board for confronting this evil. That tells me this group is composed of very powerful OT’s here.)

    So the the majority of church scientologists suffer stupidity, loss of their freedom, and LOSS OF THEMSELVES. They are truly in a state of utter confusion.

    They’re in THE “Condition of Confusion” (Below enemy and treason), yet unaware of it.

    Of course, the ethics tech answer is … FIND OUT WHERE YOU ARE.

  137. If Trevor had not passed away suddenly and unexpectedly in 2002 (or 03) a la Morten Astrupgard, Dan Sherman would not be in his current pickle. He signed on to write a real biography of LRH, even completed a draft years ago, but has been DM’s lackey/speechwriter ever since. He refuses to join the SO but is well paid and cared for in exchange for his personal integrity, his artistic ambitions and his soul. Trevor would have knocked some sense into him. Trevor had a good nose for BS and spoke his mind. Mike can second this.

  138. Really, I’m not looking for titillation value, I am just looking for the truth about LRH’s death. Surely, you can understand why a scientologist would be interested in knowing the truth about this. You don’t have to go into R6 data to give basic information on this. For starters, you could just say whether LRH was murdered by a physical person, died of natural causes or died as a result of case phenomenon.

  139. martyrathbun09

    Curious, I bet the farm you aren’t a Scientologist.

  140. Speaking of Hitler, Ellen Brown’s excellent book, The Web of Debt talks about how Hitler got Germany out of the depths of the Depression (and we’ve all seen pictures of Germans with wheelbarrows of worthless Deutschmarks) in about 2 years. He had a plan drawn up to rebuild Germany’s infrastructure, determined the cost and then issued new money to finance it. Almost overnight there was full employment and the German economy recovered. I was told by Victor Barram who worked in PPRO Int Office that many Jews could have gotten out in 1937 or ’38 before things got really bad because business was too good. Victor’s family got out before it was too late when he was about 13.

    Hope this sheds some light on how the German people were able to be duped so thoroughly.

    DM has duped Scientologists using similar PR tactics as Hitler and Goebbels under the banner (one of Danny Sherman’s favorite cliches) of “The Big Lie.”

  141. Dear Marty,

    Thank you for the announcement of the long overdue death of the RTC.

    By way of of an old Greek saying to sum it up: A FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN.

    I consider this a moment to celebrate. In fact, I’m going to make a cocktail to toast the event.

    RTC is dead. Long live Scientology. Here’s to you Dave, you PoS.

    Cordially yours,

    Tom Gallagher

    P.S. I’ve discovered another video of the latest RTC staff meeting. It left me wondering if DM is in Moe’s valence.

  142. Official police documents of no relevance ?

  143. Dramatizaton or Re-enactment it may be, but the source is the human condition.

  144. What do you mean b y this above Virgil Marthy has more RTC and CMOI thanRTC and CMO I / ?

  145. What Faust said. They have a precence in my country too. And they are messing with the lives of my fellow country man and woman. Plus they are hypocritical and lie every wich weay it fills up their pockets. Oh and they mess with my Internet. Latest Scam of Scientology Netherlands. Okay more people do it but they do not pretend to be a or be with a Church.
    “LONDON – Gold Trader and former stock analyst Willem Middelkoop got competion. Prominent members of the Church of Scientology of Amsterdam jumped into the same hole in the market as he: the launch of economic doomsday scenarios in conjunction with the sale of gold.

    Two senior officials of Scientology, Manuel Nugteren, and Joop van der Linde, operate within an irry organization active on the Internet which tries to interest individuals in gold –these potential investors are told that the economic collapse is imminent, and that gold is the only safe investment there is.

    Meetings are organized in hotels across the country, nicknamed Freedom Events, which each time around is attended by one hundred invited interested parties. Recently, above mentioned events –which the participants pay for attending are held in the White Mountains hotel and conference center “Hilversum Koningshof” in Veldhoven.

    Sources confirmed that Nugteren and Van der Linde, have the task of pulling doubters over the line and urge them to withdraw as much money as possible to invest into the gold network. Manuel Nugteren has also appeared in promotional videos of the Internet gold network.

    Central to this gold trade network is the in Switzerland registered KBEdelmetall.”

  146. From my viewpoint you look like a nail D&L Wizzard.

  147. Sarge,
    Eloquently put.
    Me loves.

  148. RTC is/was more of a parasite sucking the subject dry.

  149. John Peeler,
    Forgive me, you, mate, are confronting the ‘force band’. It’s there. It’s real. There is the other side. The way through, is through.

  150. I want to apologise for my earlier posting. Months ago our esteemed collegue Marty pointed out that we should be taking the middle road and not partake in the same games that the lower-toned beings play at RS. I have omited the middle road in my comm at the top of this post and I apologise for it.

    Of course, if the gentlemen or the ladycome to see me I would be a very gracious host and offer them refreshments, food, comfort or anything they need. You see they are just lost sheep that know not what they do.

    I will listen to them with my professional TRs in and treat their comm as a precious commodity. For after all, they should be listened to.

    Once they are done speaking and telling their side of the story, I will shed light on them regarding where I stand in all of this in hopes that they listen to me. I will not be offended by any of their comms and apply what is greatness to them exactly per the policy.

    Then I shall apply the “Running Armlock” to both of the men while also sweeping their legs from under them and then perform a perfect pirouet while waist-flipping both men at the same time in Marions direction, allowing her to get out of the way, of course, and then give them both “Arch Stomps” (this particular pain lasts a long time). I will do all of this with love and ARC as I physically throw them out of the house whilst I have both in agonizing “Half Nelsons”.

    This is a human and no-violent activity and is meant as protection to all parties involved and they would only be in pain for 6 hours, but no more.

    ML Tom

  151. Thought Provoking


  152. T,

  153. After all — what is a community about – if not this … we run to each other :

    Lyrics to I Run To You :
    I run from hate
    I run from prejudice
    I run from pessimists
    But I run too late
    I run my life
    Or is it running me
    Run from my past
    I run too fast
    Or too slow it seems
    When lies become the truth
    That’s when I run to you

    This world keeps spinning faster
    Into a new disaster so I run to you
    I run to you baby
    And when it all starts coming undone
    Baby you’re the only one I run to
    I run to you

    We run on fumes
    Your life and mine
    Like the sands of time
    Slippin’ right on through
    And our love’s the only truth
    That’s why I run to you

  154. LOL are you trying to pry for intell here ? Hmm mI would hold of on that farm bet Marty. He talks with to much familiarity in his convo with you . He acts as you were best buds or something. Some failed control technique in this case. And talking about case phenomenon ? ORLY

  155. Jeffy,
    Ahh, yes, the ‘conditional declare’. Another of DM’s new thingies.

  156. Thought Provoking

    Very nicely communicated.

  157. Faust,
    You: “I have to admit, it is quite fascinating to learn about the universe that Hubbard created and what Scientologists believe in. ”

    That, Herr Doktor, is what we Scientologists call ‘whistling past the graveyard’.

    You fucking well hope you’re right.

  158. Allen,
    The compooter hacking abilities of the church?

    They know when you fart.

    Remember the G.O.? They were freakin’ the Justice Department out, dude.

    Look over your shoulder, they are there.


  159. Dat’s for da Wissard.
    I thought it was a rather humorous non-sequitur.

  160. Eileen,
    Hell’s bells. You scare me. Hansueli and Mike…poor things.

  161. Karen,
    You are a REAL auditor, so I can understand your outrage.

    We are all blessed with REAL auditors.

  162. First, I want to thank each and everyone of you for the information you have provided about your religion over the past year. I have been protesting the abuses for years, but now it’s not about scientology it’s about Miscavige the sociopath. What I see are people who are content with themselves and life, think about others and are truly caring. It’s really a beautiful thing to read through your posts. I finally get it! To Karen #1–your are terrific! (Davey had better watch out and take you seriously)
    It never ceases to amaze me how the “trolls” favorite comments are personal cut downs. There is never any substance to their posts. I have been calling OSA the Keystone Cops for quite a while. LOL
    Keep informing us all and stay strong. You are a wonderful community and I wish you all the best!

  163. Most interesting Jeff, didn’t know about Hansueli doing that. Dear Leader must be desperate and scraping the bottom of his barrel to find these Keystone Cops!

  164. Thou speaketh sooth dear Sarge

  165. With all due respect Cat Daddy, your response makes my point all over again.

  166. Uhm non-existent ?

  167. LSD in toothpaste I will forever remember that one.

  168. The “R6 data” made me laugh out loud. It’s not easy for a non-Scientologists to troll as a Scientologist.

  169. VS
    I love goofy posts like yours – they serve in several ways:

    1. It is beautiful to watch LRH’s definition of friendship manifest as Marty’s friends defend him (not that he needs it),
    2. It strengthens the group by drawing a very clear line in the sand between Indepentent Scientologists and robot Miscavigologists, between correct and incorrct analysis, between right and wrong,
    3. It serves as a looking glass into the tone level of the Cult of Miscavigology,
    4. I get a jolt out of watching the train wreck unfold as your goofy viewpoints hit the wall of unyielding theta.
    You are out of your league here ,but please keep on posting!


    PS There is something to understand here, we did not leave Scientology, the Church of Scientology left Scientology.

  170. I have been reading up on Mr’Crowley with regards of the Scientology factors.

  171. LookDon'tListen

    Good points.

    I’m in the same boat as you. What you say is true about people inside. I have gotten some comments from people and my first question to them was “Are you trying to set me up?” My second question was “Why are you telling me this?” I have noticed the people who have made comments were old timers and usually trained. I’ve asked them “What was your first clue?” One for one the answer was GAT. There are ALOT of people still in that feel the same way as Indies but for one reason or another (family, business) can’t disconnect and come out.

    I don’t come out because I wan’t to keep track of what’s going on there. I even still answer the phone when the caller ID says CofS or has a 727 area code. I guess I’m a little warped.

    Your referance to the mimeo issues brought back fond memories. Mimeo Officer was one of my first posts in the 70s.

    The one thing I find very funny is whenever I’m being recuited for the local Idle Org, I am told “Don’t worry, It’s not like the horrible 70s, 80s and 90s when you were on staff.” My responce is “Well, that’s too bad, those were the good days of being on staff. It was an adventure!”

    Like you OT VIII, I’m glad I was there during those times. Thanks for reminding me.

  172. Actually, the above by Virgil Samms is self-explanatory.

  173. Happy EX-Sea Org Day
    to all EXes !

  174. Wayne Froemke (AKA “Safe”),

    Thank you so much for mentioning: 911 is another fairly current example of duping most people. http://ae911truth.org/
    (However, 1247 architectural and engineering professionals are no longer duped or suffer stupidity on the subject.)

    You are right about the PTS situation of members of the CoM.

  175. Sassyanon
    I love to see the healing power of this group in action and love making new friends because of it.
    Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful self with us 🙂

  176. Jim, I hold no grudge against you, and I really have no reason to. I have once laid down and explained why I am of my opinion in one of the postings in a recent post of this blog. Maybe that is reason for you to dislike me. I don’t know. Let’s leave it at that, okay?

    I only tried to answer T Paine’s question sincerely here and for once I didn’t even produce a wall of text.

  177. You lost the farm then. I’m getting ready to start grade 1 and the PRD. I’ve never really been in a church other than a few visits so I kinda skipped the phase you guys went through and just went straight to the freezone where everyone basically considered you pure evil at the time. I don’t know much of anything about the R6 bank other than the fact that it doesn’t have anything to do with letting out some basic information about LRH’s death.

    What I do know is that there were a lot of things suspicious about LRH’s death. I remember reading a report that said there was an unusually high amount of this drug in his system and a bunch of fresh hypo marks. This has just become knowledge in the freezone from what I’ve seen. Google it, it’s not hard to find. I also know you were in the inner circle at that time with all of the people that wanted to destroy scientology. What I assume is that, through this association, you must know what really happened to LRH. You’ve also made comments that suggest you know the truth, verifying that I am correct about that.

    Honestly, I’d like to support you because much of what you’ve done so far has been helpful but it seems irresponsible to go on blind faith. LRH’s death is significant to me even if it is not to you and I need to know the truth about it. If you are holding out until the book is released, that is at least logical since that would make more money and be more prepared. But it does not look like that is the case. I am beginning to wonder if you will ever talk about this. I don’t see any reason to withhold the information. You say I’ll learn the truth. But I’m doubting it.

  178. Soltan nice to see italyon the line

  179. Oops, made a typo: meant to say “common knowledge in the freezone” about the drugs and hypo marks in the second paragraph. I actually didn’t know this was disputed by anyone and really, outside of this board it may not be.

    Let me elevate it to fact for those wondering. It was the San Luis Obispo County medical examiner that found this drug in LRH’s system. Check wikipedia’s entry for LRH to get all the references. LRH was about to be cremated when they blocked that and ordered a toxicology report. So it’s not exactly hard to prove.

  180. You are merciful. 🙂

  181. Dark And Light Wizard

    My apologize Jim Lad. Wizard will attempt to keep more on Source-ery


  182. LOOK DONT LISTEN Comments I find intresting !! Yes I can witness to those days,.They were full of Adventure as you say aswell as Happy and No such thing as this sort of Church as it is today and having to defend to be able to keep Scientology Working, This sort of Scenario in those days would have been ended with the peeople getting labelled and thrown out. Of course then LRH was there ! Those days were known as The Hay Days of St Hill !! which I am afraid not replaceable .

  183. In ref to your remark Virgil saying it means exactly what it says does not answer what is meant by your statement above You may think I am a bit thick , or wonder when reading what is the person on about . it reads to me recurited RTC/CMO I that already are out yes or NO ?

  184. Good question I am dam sure people will have their theory of facts
    related to this issue. Its whether they make it open or otherwise is another factor alltogether, Your question I think is valid.Other migth think otherwise , and just refer you to the websites.But your question is a valid , because only and only those that were on the scene at the time Know the truth , thats a fact. Certain information is widley spread through websites, but are they all the facts. Those on the scene at the time know. Its only if they choose to share reality with facts, and that remains to be known.

  185. LookDon'tListen


    Thanks for the reply. I agree, those days are not replaceable. It’s unfortunate for the newbies in the Church who have never experienced what real Scientology is all about. Frankly, I thought it was alot more fun when it was a pioneer activity. It actually felt like a group then. Now, It’s bits of third dynamic each opposed too enmeshed in It’s own woes to look outward. A dismal state of affairs.

    A note more on topic to the subject. Does anyone know who the two RTC reps are at the Flag AO. Everytime I’ve seen them, they were ripping the board I/Cs and DsofP for production in the HGC. They seemed to have no qualms about doing this right in front of public. Also, I didn’t realize WDAHs and Paid Comps was part of their stat/hat. Also, how come RTC has to video pass the End Ruds on a six month check. How trained are these guys. For that matter, when the video doesn’t pass, how come the auditor isn’t crammed before he takes you back in after miscalling an F/N or missing a read? Do they do all their crams at the end of the day? If the P/S, cram, retread, retrain procedure was followed on one of my auditors, he would have been back on Level 0. Yet, there he sits waiting for the elusive three swing F/N again. I don’t get it. Someone enlighten me.

  186. It's me again

    “because I don’t have an R6 bank and I don’t want to restimulate yours”

    Marty, what the hell is that suppose to mean? Do you even realize that there are good people posting on your site that still have an R6 bank and some could take that as an invalidation of their state of case? Maybe not directly were they analytically notice it. This could even act like a hidden standard…………. This is not Scientology!

    Attaining a level on the Grade Chart doesn’t make a person “better” than a person lower on the Bridge. Each level gives “abilities gained” that are not to be fed or forced on a person lower on the Bridge.

    I agree with the line in KSW “Instructor A was found to have huge ideas of how you must never invalidate anyone, even a lunatic”. You have that right, but do it via his email. The rest of these people on your site are not the lunatic.

  187. I could not agree more with your view from those days .Today is another world and quite a different view I am afriad . Quite self moviated and one even has to check for the intergity along with it.

  188. Indept Scientologist I think you raise a good question
    What do others think of this ?Its not just dead when DM is gone How can it be?

  189. A PDF file containing scanned images of documents related to Ron Hubbard’s death, including the death certificate, the post mortem examination, supplementary coronor’s reports, blood toxicology report and more is available at the following URL:

    Click to access hubbard,%20l.r._report.pdf

    Immediate ause of death was adjudicated to be Cardio-Vascular Accident of the brain (“stroke”) – that was based upon Dr. Eugene Denk’s account that Hubbard had displayed Dysphrasia (speech impairment usually associated with brain injury) for several days prior.

    With regards to the presence of Vistaril in Hubbard’s body, the coroner wrote the following:

    “Writer explained to Dr. Denk what was transpiring in this investigation and why. Dr. Denk stated that he had no objection to the performing of toxicology studies. He reported that the only medication he had given the decedent was Vistaril and vitamin B-12. The aforementioned attorneys requested that these tests be performed immediately because they chose to cease further action toward proceeding with the cremation process until he
    Coroner’s Office was satisfied that the decedent died of natural causes and not by some lethal drug overdose. Dr. Denk requested to accompany writer to the Sierra Vista Hospital Laboratory and witness the tests performed. Writer, accompanied by Dr. Denk, took the specimen to the Sierra Vista Hospital where the toxicology studies were performed. The
    results of the toxicology studies revealed no presence of any substance that would be contributory of the decedent’s death.”

    There were no signs of violence of any sort on the body – neither bruises nor injuries.

    The body was positively identified as being that of L. Ron Hubbard and no one else.

    The evidence of all these things is included in that PDF file. I suggest you study it closely.

    Michael A. Hobson

  190. Its Me Again
    He has a point Its me gaian as senstive stuff like this matter related to R6/case should be careful what is written. So as not to invalidate because it certaintly can be received like that when reading . and he has a point The person that refers to talking to Marthy about it.

  191. Curious,

    First you said:

    “Reports show that he had enough Vistarol in him to kill him …”

    The actual toxiculogy report I linked to below specifically states:

    “*Trace* of Hydryxyzine (Vistaril) detected on blood specimen submitted.” [emphasis added]

    The actual coroner’s report I linked to below specifically states:

    “The results of the toxicology studies revealed no presence of any substance that would be contributory of the decedent’s death.”

    and then you also said:

    ” … and a bunch of fresh hypo marks.”

    The report says “10” not “a bunch of” and “recent”, not “fresh”. 10 recent injection marks is consistent with Dr. Denk’s account of having administered that drug over the course of several days, as he told the coronor.

    Now you say:

    “It was the San Luis Obispo County medical examiner that found this drug in LRH’s system.”

    This last statement shows that you had studied the Coroner’s report before you ever wrote your first post on this thread, and therefore you *knew* your statements were false and misleading before you ever them. You are “hoisted on your own petard”, boy.

    This pitifully lame attempt to frame Marty Rathbun for the non-existent murder of Ron Hubbard is consistent with the attempted frame-up exposed in the parent article. It is nothing but a nasty propaganda attack aimed at causing anyone loyal to Ron Hubbard to break with Marty or avoid hooking up with him in the first place.

    Go tell your Diminutive Mentor you screwed this up so he can mete out whatever punishment he sees fit.

    Michael A. Hobson

  192. martyrathbun09

    Michael, thanks for taking the time to do what I didn’t have time to.

  193. Impartial English Girl

    It’s often struck me how similar the Scientology logo is to the SS logo from Nazi Germany… coincidence…?

  194. Thank you for the clarification Michael

  195. Marty, you are most welcome. This is what *I* do.

    Michael A. Hobson

  196. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    VWD Mike Hobson.

    You just busted “Curious” in a little black ops game here. Sneaky 1.1 nullification. That’s what David Miscavage and friends does.

    Thank you for paying attention my friend.

  197. WH,
    Ah, perhaps the warrior spirit does have some use still in this universe.


  198. OT VIII,

    It may be premature to give up on the concept of the Sea Org. Elite groups can be very effective in bringing about change. Problem with the Sea Org as it stands is that nearly anyone could join. Not only could join but forced to join. Robots do not comprise elite groups. Elite individuals comprise elite groups. And political correctness aside, not every individual is of sufficient caliber to belong to an elite group. Thousands apply to become special force troops and very few make it.

    The Sea Org should have been an organization that members dreamed of belonging. And worked hard to measure up. To belong brings honor.

    Elite groups win respect and admiration by accomplishment, not by force or demand. The “ethics presence” of the Sea Org was an enforced condition. “Respect us because you fear us.”

    Ethics is based in understanding not mis-emotion. Ethics presence is based in ARC and KRC. Control through fear is not really control at all. Mainly because control is pro-survival and fear exists in a band that is contra-survival.

    But, before I get too technical with this: a group of loyal officers who operate as thetans and bring about needed and wanted changes would greatly benefit Scientology. But they would have to be elite. They would have to REPRESENT the best of Scientology’s results. They would have to be actual OTs rather than wantabes. They would have to be highly trained and results oriented.

    So, in effect, an embryonic “Sea Org” is forming around this blog. It’s not fully operational. It’s members haven’t yet cognited that they are members. But, the cognitions will come and individuals will start to know what needs to be done, take responsibility for what needs to be done, and bring about methods of production/control to bring about those products.

    Just my take on it.

    Always an optimist.


  199. Official Investigation into the Death of L. Ron Hubbard

  200. It should also be noted that the needle marks might have been the result of Denk having administed the Vitamin-B intravenously (i.e. as needle injections). This is common when Vitamin-B is being used for medical or acute reasons.

  201. Pingback: David Miscavige vs St Petersburg Times: “It’s WAR!” | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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