Valley vulture culture

Anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of Green on White can divine quite a lot from simply studying the promo that is put out in Miscavige’s vulture culture.

The following two pieces speak volumes as to the health and direction of C of M in Los Angeles.

The first piece indicates that apparently the Valley Org has for some time now out-sourced the subject of Ethics. Instead of putting an Introduction to Scientology Ethics book in folks hands, or even having them do Ethics light with, say, a div 6 course in Ethics, Valley is promoting public to instead pay for some outside consultant to tell them what Ethics is about.

The second piece is a natural progression from the first. Once you stop using books as the first line of dissemination, stop delivering courses, and start promoting some ESTesque interpretations of LRH tech, well you then dwindle down into the types of corny shifts the following piece evidences.

188 responses to “Valley vulture culture

  1. It’d be funny if it was not so sad.

  2. And I’ll bet dollars to donuts the corny talent show is merely the opening act introducing the main feature — a lock-all-the-doors, hysteria-inducing, vampire-sucking, donation-extorting engram in three acts that lasts until 2:00 am.

    I’m sure every seat will be filled. NOT!

    Just Me

  3. Once again, the investigation that is ongoing on this blog continues to reveal what should obvious to most in the C of M. It probaby is obvious, but as we have discussed previously, we know why they don’t stand up and question – fear.

    Well, there is no fear here.

    Books are Matter. And as was written above, they are important Matter used to convey our technology. And, when you take the Matter out of MEST, you get…….EST.

    And I am not referring to energy, space or time in this example.

    Once again, thank you for continuing to reveal the corruptions in Mestsavage’s version of a church. More and more, each day, each week, the magnitude of the corruptions becomes staggering to comprehend. And I get the feeling we are just getting warmed up.


  4. It’s embarrassing. We had something similar here in Sweden where the Malmo Ideal Org took the concept of a lame but popular TV show and made this into a corny fundrasing event.

    I said: “Please stop! You are embarrassing!”

    There are some good signs: Recently I have met some people personally and heard about others who has turned their backs on Miscavige here. More so than before summer.

  5. Hold the presses!

    I just recognized on that flyer the names of Jim and Tamra (“Jim and Tammy”) Meskimen. They are one of those four couples who celebrated the sudden and untimely death of registrar Morten Astrupgaard (see by sending out a mass email to Co$ members: “Any money you can put on account to give Morten a final upstat as he goes off into the next chapter would be so helpful and
    appreciated …. All we ask is that you fax a letter to 323-953-3224 stating ‘I,
    (your name) would like to make a donation in the amount of
    ($whatever dollar amount) on my credit card account # (whatever it
    is) and the expiration is (MM/YY) the three or four digit code is
    (XXX) my mailing address is…, please apply it to my account…’ and
    then sign it.”

    Talent show, my ass!

    Just Me

  6. A good friend of mine has some grown kids down in LA and when he tried to broach the subject of what DM is actually doing, the kids argued back, saying the following:

    DM is in no way leading the church. He’s simply the spokesperson and he’s the guy who is taking charge on cleaning up the mess David Mayo created (going on 30 years now).

    Idle Orgs are an LRH program and “management” (a generalization), is on policy regarding them and all the fund-raising.

    The WDC is in full effect and would never let a sociopath single-handedly run the show!

    Everyone on the net is an SP, period! We will NEVER look at the net! End of subject!!!

    We have to get these building because the nation of islam is reaching out for help!

    Tom Cruise is a hero and has not lost any power or influence. These are SP lies!

    The church is the fastest growing religion on earth. (yes, this is their view in present time. It’s the view of their Scn friends, too, down there).

    OK-back to reality: The Scn culture in LA is, in a word, scary!

  7. In 1990 or 1991 everybody and the cat had to do the new “Life Orientation Course” ( LOC ). It had lots of theory and practicals about ethics & conditions. This course was supposed to provide the basics of ethics ( and some more ) so that people could live successfully.

    The above promo shows that this LOC didn’t fulfill its promises and has been trashed. To be replaced by this new stuff.

    Or that the public may not buy a course of a few 1000 $ anymore – as this would be to the disadvantage of IAS and building vampires.

  8. martyrathbun09

    Hans, keen eye and mind you’ve got.

  9. martyrathbun09

    Interesting. Check out Islam’s stats in this week’s edition of Time magazine. The article is about America having gone Islamophobic since 911. So, it by no means is a promotion of Islam. But, check out there expansion stats since becoming the “most reviled” religion in America. 65% growth over that period. This “fastest growing” DM drivel is some demonstrably false.

  10. David Miscavige has certainly become what he resisted (David Mayo). Would any Loyalist from 83-84 ever have imagined that Miscavige’s COS would make the arch-demon David Mayo look like an APOSTLE of standard tech? (25 years later).

    Theoretically speaking, eplacing Miscavige with Mayo would cause a VAST reversion toward Standard Tech.

  11. A sick, cultural meme is being propagated by the Church of Miscavige.
    I was shocked to see the above promo pieces and also the “Ideal Org” fundraising promo at

    Miscavige is trying to create “middle class robots”, much like the brainwashing American media creates this middle class, duped society.

    “…The bulk of your PTSes may very well be PTS to a class, the middle class of which their particular SP is simply a member. Few of them realize this or even that the middle class (bourgeoisie) ARE very suppressive to anyone who tries to do something in the world besides support the system. My attitude in this is that both the capitalist and communist are alike old hat and a bore, that they’ve made a ruddy mess of things, exhausted the planet and, with their senseless wars, smashed up mankind…

    The deceptions are grotesque within our society and within the Church of Miscavige.

  12. Or how about the “new” LOC course we heard so much about in 2001 that was being piloted because the “old” LOC wasn’t getting it’s “product” of people joining staff on the Hat In Life step.

    I guess that was COB putting a hidden standard there of what the EP of the LOC was really all about.

    The KTL and LOC courses are to this day the most important and life changing services I have done.

  13. Now that I think about it, the LOC falling into complete disuse probably happened for the same reason the OEC/FEBC is cometely out of commission. Once DM makes a new (but unreleased) version, the existing version becomes considered “old” and “off-source” and everyone gets to wait the usual 5-8 years for the “correct” version to finally be released.

    This sequence explains not only why LOC, OEC and FEBC are no longer pushed, but also why ALL auditor training is no longer pushed.

  14. W.T.F.

    That’s all I can say.

  15. By your logic David Miscavige has become LRH too as he alsoo restisted him too. Your first sentence is highly flawed. David Miscavige certainly has NOT become David Mayo.

  16. Watching Eyes

    Just a quick glance at the first piece of promo tells me their art/design department must be out to lunch. It looks like one sentence that’s saying, “Unwanted conditions get up the Bridge fast”. Evidently there’s some truth to that when you look at all who’ve made it up the Bridge and can barely function, have died, are broke, losing their homes and a litany of other unwanted conditions.

    Weird promo and that’s aside from the fact that the org isn’t delivering ethics tech to it’s public. They’re now supposed to get LRH ethics tech on a via????

    As far as the second piece for their talent show, that leave me speechless. Did you notice this talent show is being held in their Chapel? The Chapel!! I guess they didn’t have enough money to rent a circus tent.

  17. MY EYES. I think I’m going blind now. In need of eyebleach.

  18. Idle Org

    As someone who has lived in the scientology culture of the LA area for many years, I would say that you may have inadvertently made a big generalization about the scene. Yeah, some of it is “scary.” We have the Meskimens, the Jensens, and all the other stellar, high-status m-Bots. What happens here does seem to have a higher profile than in some other areas. But I’m here, as well. As are my husband and kids (also out), and MANY friends, most of us probably not known to your friend’s kids as “out,” but we are. One awesome “out” couple lives intimately close to a very good friend of mine (who no longer speaks to me since I’m out), but their own status is unknown to her.

    So don’t let the incredibly blinkered vision of a couple of young church members color your view of the scene. You would, after all, be taking the
    word regarding “the view” of a couple of people who are refusing to look.

  19. Marty,
    I almost can’t believe it.
    What’s next, the Circus, how about a Carnival?

    I realizing my threshold and level of confront of this insanity is not as high as I thought. I may need to take a few day off from visiting this blog, I’m feeling a bit ill.


  20. Any old timers out there remember the creation of WISE and the whole subject of external influences and orgs farming out their public to outside sourses for money?

    LRH would be none too happy.

  21. IO,
    Yes, there are many inactive yet still connected that see the world exactly as DM (positions)PRs it.
    A recent example; last week I ran into an Scn acquaintance and talking about the Church he mentioned all the expansion going on (???) at which point I asked him if he actually saw expansion for himself with his own eyes because I looked with mine and saw the Org was not expanding as a matter of fact the Org was constantly smaller than it was over the last 30 years that I aware. I further stated he shouldn’t base his reality on the PR being TR3ed. And you should ask yourself things such things as, if the Org cannot expand and be successful then they mustn’t be applying LRH admin tech or aren’t being allowed to plain and simple.
    The look of blasphemy and comm. lag with the final acknowledgment being “hum you might have a point, I don’t know” was very telling.
    Not sure what he would have said if we went into all of the broken down, bankrupt and struggling OTs, lack of Bridge progress for the rest, etc, etc……
    Gradients I guess.

  22. I’ll check it out and yes, DM’s drivel is almost as big a joke as the veteran Scientologists believing him!

  23. crashingupwards

    Marty, your the greatest enemy of free speech to come along in a long time. Beacause you keep posting shit that leaves most of us speechless. Where does one even begin to comment on all this. Its just (blank).

  24. martyrathbun09

    Mark, Yes. As I recall, LRH’s evaluation on such reverse practices was entitled “Conevil”, short for confront of evil.

  25. IO,

    Thanks for this report of your friends’ kids who live in L.A.

    In my experience, there’s not a single Scientology culture in L.A. For example, many of my L.A. and SoCal Scientology friends are NOT living in the Co$ bubble culture. Living so near Big Blue for so long, they’ve seen too much to pretend it’s all hunky dory.

    In fact, I have at least five camps of SoCal Scientology friends: 1) those who are out of the Co$ and Done with a Capital D who will never go back and don’t care who knows it; 2) those who are terribly disaffected with both the church and the subject of Scientology, but are laying low because of friends or family they won’t disconnecct from; 3) those who are still in and rabid churchies and swear everything’s wonderful, 4) those who are still in and sometimes getting services, but are pretty miserable, and 5) Indies and middle-path’ers.

    I’m sure Karen #1 and others in L.A. can also speak to the diverse nature of SoCal Scientologists.

    Just Me

  26. IO,

    The spreading of ridiculous false data by Mestology is definitely scary as it is based on what seems to be just hearsay and not any verifiable data and stats as Marty pointed out. Perhaps the only WDC member active is the one created by COBuildings -WDC for Ideal Orgs Angie Blankenship.

    Fact is that LRH as Source is not acknowledged – first ad only mentions “LRH references” which could just be “based on the works” and the second doesn’t at all. The Valley Org fundraising website has nothing to do with LRH.

  27. Thought Provoking

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this was another way to bolster Valley org’s Div 6 stats as well. I’m thinking BIS in a Div 6 stat and I’ll bet that they have figured out how to justify each section of this ethics seminar as a Div 6 paid comp (mostly by recycled OTs hiding out in Div 6 so they can say they are on course). You have reminded me of another way the Org vultures turn into cannibals that eat their own, leading the public into a false sense of expansion. I can see the graphs now and the raves travelling through to the other orgs how Valley orgs Div 6 is in affluence.

  28. Good point, Mark. I do remember that.

  29. crashingupwards

    Mark, definitely some paralells. WISE was supposed to keep SCN business from using Org staff as a cheap labor pool and distracting them from their main focis of doing their posts. Bow the Field FMS are the new distraction channelling money from the fild into IAS and keeping moeny from going to services. Its even more deadly to expansion than before.

  30. Thought Provoking

    And maybe they aren’t around because they actually produces results, sounds like a death sentence to me.

  31. How has Mestology become Mayology???

  32. I would prefer David Mayo a million times over the current David M.

    In 1980/81 everybody and the cat coaudited on the new Happiness Rundown. Big wins for everyone !

  33. Sorry, but what is the “famous Guild Workshop” referred to in the ethics conditions promo piece? Sounds kind of squirrel to me, though I don’t know what it is. Anyone???

    At my local idle org, they’re considering a “bikini car wash” for a “fundraising event”. I got an email the other day that the OT committee are looking for young Scientology women under the age of 30 (but over 18), who are physically attractive and are “willing to do anything to make LRH’s dream of an ideal org become true”. I thought it was disgusting that they were using LRH’s name in what is basically a pimping and pandering proposition. I’ll see if I can find the email, but I think I deleted it out of disgust.

  34. I thought Valley was already Ideal. Or had paid for the building. What’s the fundraiser for?

  35. “because”,
    Good handling here…
    “…I asked him if he actually saw expansion for himself with his own eyes because I looked with mine and saw the Org was not expanding…”

    i.e. “What do you actually observe?”
    i.e. Directing an individual “to look”.

  36. Jerry Sanborne

    ‘Just got done reading your Blog for the first time, I am blown away! I did not know the extent of DM’s greedy & corrupt ways! What an enlightenment I have found, reading through your articles. No more money to IAS, that’s for damn sure. ‘Thanks again for such an awesome place to finally read the truth about what has been going on in the ‘church’. I think I have become an Independent Scientologist, thank you very much.

  37. Hi Mark,

    I vaguely remember the creation of WISE back in ’78.

    As far as I remember it was under SoCo (Social Coordination) which was part of the GO.

    I remember reading the the occasional Program Order, Mult Telex, etc, etc but don’t remember reading any actual policy on it.

    When the GO was disbanded and OSA took over and set up ABLE (Association for Better Living and Education) WISE seemed to take on a life of its own.

    I probably could go into greater detail on my personal thoughts about WISE which aren’t all that complimentary.

    I’ll just suffice to say that the majority of WISE members I’ve met are a bunch of elitist suits who have contributed to hijacking and perverting the subject of Scientology.

  38. I’d like to see occasional positive exchanges between official Scientologists and splinter Scientologists from time to time.

    I think if you gave official Scientologists some opening so they could say something nice on your blog here, that you could lure more of them into dialogues that might be more longrange profitable.

    It’d be nice if Chris Smith, Tait Rupert, Jim Meskimen were to come converse here, notice the pluspoints and valid arguments spoken here on this forum, and acknowledge what is discussed here.

    I agree with some of your posters who urge the official Scientologists who do come here to troll, to please use their names, and be normal citizens, and try to be above the gamesmanship, and to come here and hear and appropriately acknowledge some of the valid criticism against current official Scientology.

  39. Crashingupwards… haven’t you heard? He’s a suppresive! Me too! Muahahaha!! “All your base are belong to us!” ROFL

  40. Its disgusting what the hell does DM think he is playing at that he needs to use vs outside ? DM is obvilously sending a message out here as it comes across as thow he does not want those within to Deliver or except they deliver this type of training by those trained inside . Is that the case ? Any way one then ask’s what exactly is the training what do they actually get In regards to Ethics . DMs version ? Its getting madder by the minute and an insult .
    The promo is cheap and sick looking to say the least.

  41. martyrathbun09

    You are welcome, and, Welcome!

  42. OT VIII You could Google on Videos or on Youtube the Video Material available on David Mayo and you will SEE for yourself.

  43. Welcome aboard Jerry. We can always use a few more good men.
    Let us know if you need anything from the community here. We are all more than willing to help, and without regging you 😉

    ML Tom

  44. This is shortcircuiting the WISE sector, crumpling of the Class 5 and WISE sectors.

    I personally hate to see a total disintegration of all that LRH wrote for top management, I’d prefer them repairing back to what LRH wrote for top management.

    There’s a huge potential, if one is eternally hopeful, for fixing up top management, longer range.

    WDC and Exec Strata need time to really do their detailed studies of all that they are supposed to study, to competently run their sectors and their “points of business”.

    If Exec Strata were manned with competent people, allowed to learn and wear their “think tank” role, that’s something that Miscavige hasn’t and isn’t allowing these last 30 years, but it is something that could be still done in the future.

    If things don’t completely go down the tubes, which I don’t think they will, since organizations take on a lumbering life of their own (despite all that is wrong with official Scientology these last 30 years), if things don’t collapse completely, then I see still that someday a competently manned up Exec Strata could chip away at the Scientology movement major problems and provide saner strategic solutions.

    Were Exec Strata to really do their jobs, they’d be the ones responsible to come up with the correct strategic solutions, country by country.

    I think the longrange failures of Scientology’s top management belong to more people, because a lot more people share allowing this deterioration.

    Agreed Miscavige is the real Kingpin holding so much wrong in place and creating new wrongs, and agreed he needs to go first and foremost.

    I personally have a large degree of hope in a future rebuilt WDC and Exec Strata though, from my admin background. Possibly those having lived the last 30 years, seeing the lack of success in WDC and Exec Strata claiming and holding onto their role as top management think realistically differently. I think that the movement might not even attract persons capable of holding the top management roles due to the inherent flaws in the overall Scientology spiritual therapy practice game.

    I think independent field practice of Scientology in countries where it is legal, is fine, in the meantime until official Scientology management rids itself of David Miscavige and until top management of Scientology proves its worth to the rest of the parishioners including the independent field Scientologists.

    I do think top management COULD do it right, though. But it’s gonna be a lot of years of repair, or waiting until a few generations die, and new generations come along and figure it out. That is if the whole Sea Org doesn’t collapse in the meantime.

    The think tank concept of what Exec Strata was supposed to provide the movement, and what WDC was supposed to do in putting competent management there, was generally an okay concept.

    It’s still there on the books for those in official Scientology to try to attempt and get going for the parishioners’ benefits, if the Sea Org doesn’t collapse first.

    I myself have blamed LRH’s meglomania and egomania and space opera science fiction inflated cosmic role of himself, drawing on his own supposed past lives OT and executive and bull pen experience.

    But I’d allow for Exec Strata, if manned up with competent people, to solve ALL of Scientology’s major problems, no matter how entrenched.

    The only people seeing good in the Scientology’s administrative structures and promotion/dissemination departments, are the outside new religion scholars, who when they compare official Scientology to other new religions, what tiny Scientology does is way beyond what other even bigger new religions do. And even now, with Miscavige having decimated all of top management these last 15 years, STILL Scientology comes out with splashy ads and promotion and dissemination, which is still way beyond any of the other bigger and smaller new religions.

    I supposed getting official Scientology to retreat from official Scientology to a freer independent field Scientology practice, bypasses ALL of the whole administrative management problem history of the movement.

    That seems about right, since the Scientology practice is the tech, NOT the admin.

    So cutting it all back to basics, what seems to be the case decade after decade, is the splinter Scientologists retreat to maximum tech application, and minimum admin application, when they get OUT of official Scientology.

    And official Scientology lumbers on, in my opinion, due to mainly the overweighted admin structures. And the admin structures were flawed to allow a domineering bad manager like DM who’s been the ONE supreme bad manager these last 30 years.

    But LRH made it very clear in policy, that the admin side is a necessity, long range.

    I myself think it will be the admin structures that outlive Miscavige, and that those LRH writings about Exec Strata in particular, will longer range be what someday, way in the future, get dusted off and tried, and eventually some enlightened competent Exec Strata person(s) will slowly pick up the pieces.

    Another though, Marty, you mentioned you being the Neo to Jesse, and Jesse the Morpheus.

    Well, remember, there was a council for Zion (in the Matrix triology movies), and that council to me, is a valid important role in the long range Scientology future. And in Scientology, it’s WDC and Exec Strata.

    Imagine if the “hotshots” in RTC (or elsewhere, the people willing and competent enough to wear the real Exec Strata think tank top expert role) and from ASI were instead put into Exec Strata and told they were NOT going to be reposted but HAD to learn and wear their hats for real, for 30 years!

    Things might have turned out different.

    This is off topic to a degree, but it all stems from this crumpled WISE and Class 5 sector promo for Valley Org. And the Valley LA celebs, Rupert, Meskimen, Cartwright, that’s the celeb sector pushing to help their Valley class 5 org! I don’t see anything wrong with Scientologists in any corner trying to do what they think is right. They can help their Valley Org, they just need to fix their top management, oust DM, get their Exec Strata and WDC back doing a saner job of things someday.

  45. They can’t Chuck.Rightnow it is a suppressive act just to look at this site. A friend of mine told me, about 6 months ago when she went to Flag for the infamous 6 month check, that she was told by the D of P that anyone reading Marty’s site would never see the OT sections for the rest of their lives. For the rest of their lives! Not for eternity, which is where a thetan is, but just for this body life. So for reading, you get banished to hell. No other religion in the history of this planet has ever made such a prohibition.

    Anyhow, they would have to have an okay from OSA, IJC, WDC Idle Org, Jenny whatsername Linson and Chairman Of the Buildings Himself.

    ML Tom

  46. I will probably be a dissident voice here, but when I first got into Scientology in the mid 70s, there were lots of little events, coffeehouses, parties, and just get togethers. We did our auditing, our co-audits, and our training and we had good times and a sense of community too. I don’t see anything wrong with people helping one another and I don’t see anything wrong with doing things that are for fun too. It was really a big part of why people loved to come to the Mission. It was FUN!!!! People got together, talked, had good times quite in addition to doing courses and auditing.

    The big and important difference was that the Mission didn’t charge the public for these things. They were not fundraisers. They were not done to “get the stats up.” In fact, no stats were counted at all for these get togethers and fun times. They were done because people were on a big create and really enjoying having a sense of community, you know, like friends and all that. We had poetry nights, coffeehouses, Halloween parties, Christmas parties, we’d meet and work on various things at the Mission. The staff were great, always friendly, always happy to have people come in. It really was a place where you could come and set down your shopping bag and feel “at home.”

    It was probably one of the biggest reasons why I continued in Scientology before I had some major stable wins — I felt at home. I had somewhere to go to hang out with people that didn’t drink or do drugs. That was important to me and to others too.

    I hate the antiseptic orgs that are all business — I feel like I don’t belong there unless I am giving money or going on course or getting auditing. Just not welcome unless I have paid for something, am paying for something, am doing something as an FSM or on some project, or giving donations.

    And my criticism of the promo pieces is not what they are doing, but the intent behind it. Its still “all business” instead of free contribution and community.

  47. Valley’s gotta pay for the reno PLANS, then the renos themselves. This is why dm is investing in a whole new generation of fundraising field staff (Per marty’s last post); buying the building is only the tip of the iceberg for any idle org. There will be enough expenses to keep an army of fundraisers busy for a long time. Good thing they don’t also have to make clears and auditors anymore. THAT would be tough.

  48. Independent Scientologist

    Welcome from another Independent Scientologist!

  49. Hi Jerry!
    Welcome. You are among friends 🙂

  50. Yeah. Ummmm. What he said.

  51. Independent Scientologist

    Chuck, we spoke last week by phone. Very enlightening conversation (on my end).

    Yes, wouldn’t it be nice if those still inside the church would just communicate with those outside!

    That’s why I would probably never even consider going back to the church. I won’t ever again be part of a religion that tells me what I can and cannot look at, what I can and cannot read, who I can and cannot talk to.

    When I was still in, just a few months ago, I wouldn’t have given the time of day to an Independent.

  52. I guess the next phase of the insanity emanating from the CoM will be THE big money-maker: The Idle Orgs will be turned into tax exempt Bingo Halls.

    Yeah, that’ll do it. CHA-CHING!!!

    Sort of rhymes with dingaling.


  53. I clearly recall how this works statistically.
    When you provide a paid a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in the org, you can count everyone who paid and attended on the BIS (Bodies In the Shop) stat. This is the big Div 6 stat and it gives you points in the Birthday Game.
    As we know, the BIS in our orgs are abysmal. The stat is supposed to reflect pcs and students (from all divisions). It would reflect how busy the org is with paid public — a good statistic to monitor.
    With these paid seminars, let’s say they get 100 people to attend. Well, the BIS stat ROCKETS for that week.
    So when Der Leader holds up HIGHEST EVER BIS stats at the next event, rest assured, it’s the number of who paid for a seminar to learn how to take other people’s money.

  54. LOL!

  55. Chuck: “The only people seeing good in the Scientology’s admin … are the outside new religion scholars … [because] Scientology comes out with splashy ads and promotion and dissemination, which is still way beyond any of the other bigger and smaller new religions.”

    Problem is, it’s done using extreme duress and extortion and driving people into bankruptcy. The result is a bunch of expensive splashy ads, supported by broken, out-of-comm, and PTS people … who don’t dare talk to others about Scientology since the last thing they want to do is subject them to the vulture culture.

    The scholars are buying into a farce.

  56. “Never see the OT sections again for the rest of their lives.”
    Sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy. That said, if you showed up with cash…

  57. RJ,
    Close. I was posted in Action Bu in 1978 when WISE was formed. Alan Buchanan, Horwich, Jim Vannier (and others contributed in various fashions) had this h-u-g-e piece of butcher paper across one wall which turned the corner,then the next, then the next. (in other words, it covered 3 walls) What they were doing (under advice and direction from LRH) was diagramming out the external influences that were pulling orgs off their hats of training and processing. And boy, they found them. Public were making a mint off org staff by employing them in their companies. So instead of the org staff working industriously to boom their orgs, they were moolighting for their org public – who were getting rich. So WISE was formed to cut this line and control it. That was the simplicity of it. If you think it through., it was a good thing. I don’t recall what it was under; it was autonomous. It wasn’t under SoCo.
    But leave it to the alter-isers, who grew it into an invasive, money making, business-controlling activity.
    How hard would it be to execute the above? Easy is the answer.
    But no, the “church” has to have their hands of every aspect of your life, and so they now stick their nose deep into your business, and boy, when it gets BIG they know YOU ARE UP TO NO GOOD so they look deeper because why??? Well, RS knows man is basically bad and will do something illegal and put the church at risk. The peering and paranoia run deep into the lives of Scientologists. But that’s only 1 dynamic, and it has to also run deep into 3rd dyanamics to really thoroughly destroy a man.

  58. one of those who see

    Hi Han,
    Agreed. It has been major case gain for me to feel free to look for myself. I had swallowed the David Mayo = Demon for so long without any inspection by me! I have confronted the overt of that. I enjoyed reading up on David Mayo and listen to his Sunday talks. Having not been up lines in the 80’s I’m sure I do not know the whole story. Am willing to hear and learn more. I think on a past post Marty mentioned that David thought of himself as Source in some way. (Sorry Marty if that is not accurate. Trying to remember) Would love to hear from him if that was possible. He must be getting up there in years.

  59. “…she was told by the D of P that anyone reading Marty’s site would never see the OT sections for the rest of their lives… …So for reading, you get banished to hell.”–Virgil

    The irony. The Catch 22.
    Get auditing and improve your ability to confront, to look…
    …but you must not look or else you can’t get auditing.

  60. Good one Tom!

    Not to be overly sarcastic but lets get real. Anyone on lines or hoping to be on lines who would dare to even let the word ‘Marty’ escape from their lips would be subjected to the equivalent of mental aggravated assault by any number of terminals from OSA on down. It’s a brutal environment these days with harsh, harsh, harsh attacks on anyone not toeing the line completely at this point.
    The social veneer around orgs today is very thin.
    Once someone comes here or to a number of other sites to ‘check it out’, is in for some serious hurt if they make it known their mind and their actions have drifted to such a treasonous degree.
    Once they’ve looked…it’s like the old saying “how ya gonna keep em down on the farm once they’ve seen the big city”.

  61. one of those who see

    Hi Jerry!
    Welcome! I think you will enjoy the lively exchange of communication here.
    And the Freedom.

  62. That is a good point, Maria.

  63. Great Jerry, Welcome to the Indies!

  64. Chuck,
    There’s no restriction officially or otherwise for any of those guys you refer to – even Snowhite and VS to post here. On the other side it’s been “duck, cover and hold” and the Ultrabarrier!

  65. The dramo starts at the top and pushes it’s way down the org board.More and more unusual solutions. It just gets more and more desperate. Step up read the green on white and apply it you would be in awe of how it works!

  66. Maria,
    Many of us had very similar experiences to yours – Missions were very friendly places and cared about you as a being. Regging was for your benefit in order to move up higher within your capabilities.

    The flavor has changed with the advent of Dear Leader and his brand of Mestology precisely communicated by the promo – Charging for some kind of dog and pony show, with Dinner and dessert available for purchase! OTC providing ethics hatting for pay? This doesn’t seem like the islands of sanity or friendliness one would go to and hang out at of choice. It’s the COD up front of the COB world!

  67. For those that are curious, the “fundraising” for an Idle Org, goes like this:

    0) Start fundraising for an Idle Org.

    1) Select a building and get an offer price in mind.

    2) Fundraise an appropriate amount for a down payment. Since banks don’t like to foreclose on a “church” for obvious PR reasons, churches normally need to come up with a much larger than normal down payment. The down payment also has to be (or should be) large enough so that the church can afford the monthly mortgage payments.

    3) Make an offer and seal the deal.

    4) Make the down payment.

    5) Continue fundraising to make the monthly mortgage payments.

    6) Continue fundraising to pay for the reno plans/architecture. Didn’t DM hire some big outside non-scientology architecture firm to design the Idle Orgs? I remember a mention of that in a PR event.

    7) Continue fundraising to pay for the renos themselves.

    8) Continue fundraising to pay for the furniture, materials, vampire uniforms, etc. to go into the idle org.

    9) Continue fundraising to pay for the DM ribbon cutting ceremony, which I’m sure involves paying travel costs for DM so that he can stay in a local 5 star hotel.

    10) Continue fundraising to pay the montly mortgage payment.

    11) Continue fundraising to pay off the balance off the mortgage.

    12) Attest to “End of Endless Fundraising” case state, since that’s all you’re getting as all your auditing dollors went to the idle org for no exchange.

    13) Go off to “Target 2”, i.e. help your nearest Idle Org achieve it’s “Fundraising to Completion” target.

    Somewhere in the steps above the idle org is signed over to the C of $cientology, creating a worldwide, real estate “Vampire Empire™” in the process.

    Somewhere in the steps above, if the idle org can’t make it’s monthly mortgage payments, it’s bad news for them, but that’s what happens when you go off policy. I think I remember something in LRH policy about never using credit to buy things and that they should make the money first, and besides, isn’t there something called the Building Reserve Fund in which money to purchase a building is set aside from donations made for services like training and auditing?

  68. Harry Potter

    The younger generation people I know are split. I lot know there is wicked sh.. going on and they are taking it one day at a time. Losing the family is a big deterrent from speaking up.

  69. Lisa Hamilton

    Wow, it looks like the “OT Committee” is trying to make up for the fact that the real LRH organization has been suppressed out of existence through off-purposeness….it is so sad to see.

    Maybe those who are advertising this kind of crap will go to the seminar and realize they have to apply the correct conditions in order to change their conditions across their dynamics in a positive way.

    To those of you creating those seminars and promotion: you can contact me (or I am sure many of the people here) to get help sorting out your current scene. Things do NOT have to continue the way they are going. Really DO something to change things for the better.

    Lisa Hamilton

  70. CHUCK :
    The Church is not going to revert its stats and delivery and PR image because Exec Strata gets re-instated or is given the ability to perform.

    ++++The Church needs to stop being a CULT of ABUSE.
    ++++The highest priority is to stop abusive conduct, not merely post execs in Exec Strata.
    ++++The Key points of Abuse was recently summarized by Jeff Hawkins on the site “Leaving Scientology”. Here are they key points ~
    * Physically and emotionally abuses its staff
    * Imprisons staff in re-education camps
    * Uses heavy and demeaning manual labor as punishment
    * Uses parishioner donations to support the leader’s lavish lifestyle
    * Enforces abortions and divorces on its staff
    * Screens and censors employee communications
    * Deprives its staff of food and sleep
    * Restricts the freedom of movement of staff, and chases after them if they leave
    * Spies on whistle blowing ex-members with private investigators hired with Church funds
    * Disconnects families

    ++++++Greedily vultures $$$ and more $$$ out of every parishioner relentlessly.

    +++Maliciously and vindictively uses confessional pc folder data and manufactured lies to create HATE websites on former veterans who have left.
    ++++Does incredibly dirty tricks via Private Investigators and Chief Counsel Elliot Abelson such as “frame for murder” “allege child trafficking” and so on.

    +++++With Jesse Prince, former D/IG RTC they try to frame him and set him up with a Marijuana charge. It was a set up.
    ++++++With David Mayo, (former Senior CS INT who actually saved LRH”s life when he was very very ill )they actually used Interpol to arrest and throw him in jail

    ++++++With Tory Christman (Magoo) Also, they actually copied the a diabolical HATE website on “Religious Freedom Watch” full of lies, printed it off, and distributed them to every home and apt on the block where she lived, so that all her neighbors could read it.

    I could go on and on, but you get the picture. It is ABUSE. It is GROSS ABUSE as emanating from an entity that wants to be respected as a “Church” while it acts like a CULT.

    DM’s cult wants 1st amendment privileges and “religious” status while it acts above the law and dramatizes DM’s greed and attack dog mentality.

  71. That’s why we need a full blown org, delivering. Are you still starting a delivery center Tom?

  72. one of those who see

    Love that “Chairman of the Buildings” LOL

  73. Hey Lunamoth,

    To clarify, the DM-bot scene in LA is scary. Not the whole LA group of Scientologists. I certainly hope you didn’t get that out of what I wrote above. If so, my bad.

    According to my friend, it’s simply a much bigger culture than in my home town of Seattle. His kids are immersed in a far larger group that hang out at CC Int and several local orgs/missions down there. I left that part out but my friend may post a far more thorough report here. Afterall, he was the one who went there on an “observe and report” mission and not myself.

    There is zero tolerance for free, indie viewpoints, much like in Seattle or, from the writings on this blog and others, everywhere that DM-bots thrive on the planet.

    Might be fair to say that there is probably a bigger DM-bot following in LA than too many other locations on the planet, for obvious reasons having to do with Hollywood, the shear size of LA and LRH’s reach there in the early days.

    And I’m sure it’s fair to say that there is probably a massive number of people in LA who can think for themselves, as I would assume exists planet-wide, too.


  74. Hey Just Me,

    “3) those who are still in and rabid churchies and swear everything’s wonderful”

    The above is the exact one to which I was referring and you are exactly right about your categories. Sorry if I failed to make that more obvious.

    No intention here to invalidate Los Angeles.

    Afterall, Seattle is tiny and you guys can kick our asses!


  75. Jerry Sanborne
    Welcome to the Continuity of the TRUTH Rundown !
    You can ask Steve Hall to post your name in the list of Independent Scientologists

  76. Jerry,
    Welcome and enjoy! Hope you’ll share the news and save/bring a friend if you can. Speaking from experience, it will take a lot of time to set in… just what all has been going on. So many who have been on lines find themselves in stunned disbelief for a while. I’ve actually experienced case gain reading this blog. Hope you find similar wins! 🙂

  77. David,
    Are you still talking about ethics lines? or Registration?
    From your discription, and the state of the church these days, I couldn’t tell which you were refering too. 😉 j/k

  78. Chuck,
    Read the reference where LRH talks about the difference between giving Wrong orders, and Following wrong orders.

    Can Exec Strata and WDC be salvaged? Perhaps. But first they must confront the fact that for the last HOW MANY YEARS??? they have let DM take the Church off the rails and into oblivian. INTENTIONALLY.

    The reasonableness must be confronted for what it is. Trust has been broken and responsibility was tossed aside DECADES ago. DECADES.

    There’s more work to be done than just “back to doing a saner job someday.” The reasonableness must be confronted.

  79. Cheers, Carol! 🙂

  80. Look in your deleted email box. That’s wild stuff. It’s as if church promo writers are working on our side nowadays. They couldn’t be writing more on-point promo to emphasize what needs to be seen.

  81. Oh ok. If Ideal orgs are the answer then why not buy the rest of the Ideal orgs and be done with it next week? Downstats solved. He’s got 1.5 bil, shouldn’t be an issue. If it IS the answer, he’s got the money, what’s the problem? Don’t be CI to your own idea Dave.

  82. Gary Morehead aka "Jackson"

    Wow, after ALL of the Basic’s books sold, and the 2 plus years of full time sales push of them, they are NOT directed to BRING thier own copy of the ethics book for use of reference. No – they are generating bindes of xeroxed R references.

    Well because of my own “cut backs” I think I’ll tear out the chapeters of the latest Ethics Book, punch 3 ring binder holes in each page and assemble my own sections in an effort to not have to pay for the binder full of zeroxed copies!

    Will crackers be served or will they be serving !

    Jesus Christ — Meskamin WAkE THE FU*K UP MAN!

    — Jackson

  83. Tony DePhillips

    Good to hear from you RJ!!
    Where have you been??



    * How to Use Not-Isness to Eliminate All Distractions
    * How to Ruthlessly Control All Dynamics
    * The Value of Threats, Force & Intimidation
    * Why Obedience to Command Intention is Best For Everyone
    * Sensing Unwanted Thoughts in Others
    * The Advantages of “Based on the Works of” in the New Materials
    * Celebrity Worship – How to Benefit
    * How Donating Increases Your Responsibility Level
    * How the C.O.B. Uses The Secret Founder Hat
    * How Sex and Children are Destructive
    * Why Training is No Longer Needed
    * How to Never Stop Asking

    And More!

    For The Chosen Few: Confidential and Mandatory Briefing Upon Completion of Seminar!

    Plus…Super Elite Confidential Video of Supreme Commandant David Miscavige Revealing in Some of His Own Words How He Personally:


    REMEDIED MIS-PUBLISHED MATERIALS, CORRECTED GROSS OUT-TECH and TAUGHT EVERYONE HOW TO READ THE E-METER (Secret mandatory cognition you will have: because LRH secretly asked him to)

    AND…For the first time ever, finally revealed:

    WHY MONEY IS GOING TO SAVE THE PLANET (Based on Very Confidential LRH Advice which C.O.B. says he has in his safe)

    SPECIAL GUEST: C.O.B.’s Own Personal Dog


    COST: $360,000.00 with Special IAS discount if you’ve donated similar amount within the last three days.

    Crackers and Punch Available During Second Intermission


    We’ve just been informed that you will receive a limited edition pamphlet entitled: HOW TO BEAT YOUR STAFF TO ATTAIN YOUR GOALS

    by world renowned successfull staff beater and NEW Founder of Our Religion, Mr. Supreme Commandant David Miscavige, C.O.B.

    Autographed copies available for additional donation.

  86. MW,
    Pretty well thought out. However, perhaps an addition needs to be put in – 10A: Continue fundraising to pay the utilities, insurance and expenses for running the empty Idle Org.

  87. IO – I got what you mean. EVERYthing pertaining to scientology is bigger in LA because there is a relatively large concentration of scientologists (whether current, ex, indie, on the radar or below it). But I can tell you, the over-all climate here is very different than even just a year or so ago. Much less participation, more “disaffection” (read, “disinfection”), and a younger generation that is at best lukewarm (with the occasional zealous teen) and mostly pretty disillusioned and cynical about the church. There are very few young people who are not internet savvy, regardless of what the church says about that. And that awareness of what is really going on cannot be undone.

    In response to so many who are distancing themselves, you have those on the short leashes (active Flag public, the local OTC members, staff, some public with family members in the SO) becoming more strident, more hardcore. I take that not a sign that they are more dedicated, necessarily, as a sign that they are pushing back against something.

    You know how that goes. Think “rubber band.”

  88. Just Me

    Good summary of the scene, I think.

  89. …somebody set up us the bomb.

  90. Thanks Tom. Thanks very much. If I had the time, I’d go through this site and summarize the best comments and points made this last year or so on this site, and publish a pamphlet, label it something like: “Summary of the What David Miscavige Really Hates about Marty Rathbun’s Site”

  91. Silly, he doesn’t want to spend HIS money!

  92. OMFG …OTDT
    That was Hysterical!
    Ladies and Gentleman…We have a Wnner!

  93. Official Scientology as led by David Miscavige is a public menace, agreed.

    No one left at Hemet could fix up this mess, all are complicit, and incapable of shucking off all the conditioning they’ve been instilled with under Miscavige.

    I’m dreaming, I agree.

    It ain’t gonna happen like I fantasized, agreed. Management and the personnel at the top have been too damaged and DM’s handiwork has gone on too long to fix it and the public who support DM are certainly NOT the ones to go fix it. Agreed.

  94. Thanks Darla,

    For the back story on WISE.

    Yeah I remember those days when they were ripping off staff.

    For instance there was a AG of some note who used org staff for his marketing business on the side.

    Never mind the constant violation of the HCOPL Field Ethics by the public in search of cheap staff slave labor.

    I was there when they rolled out WISE about the same time a lot of other Div 6-7 activities were going on like the short lived Op Z.

    However you also have to remember that field activities of any kind was pretty much under the purvey of the GO and SoCo was the Bureau that took credit for any wins or successes in that area.

    Me I was just a techie who happened to be working in that area at the time.

    Larry Brennan could probably offer more background than I could.

    Maybe in theory WISE was supposed to be autonomous like say Applied Scholastics but in practice…

    Anyway even the GO’s SoCo didn’t have the audacity to use WISE as cover for their covert ops like OSA’s ABLE is currently doing.

    Thanks for the welcome Tony.

    I’ve been redrafting a novel and I’m now on the final chapters.

    Hopefully it’ll end up on the NYT Bestsellers list but who knows.



  95. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Welcome and VWD Jerry!

    You’ve stepped on the solid ground of dedicated Scientologists here that want to Keep Scientology Working.

  96. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    I could be wrong. But I thought most the Scientologists here ARE the official, on-policy, on-tech, on-source Scientologists, and the “splinter” Scientologists are the one’s in the squirrel Orgs with the misnomer … “Church of Scientology.”

    Or maybe I just got mixed up? Did I REALLY get it backwords? 😉

  97. First~Same here with KTL/LOC 🙂
    It’s obvious the CofM has/is systematically getting rid of anything that works.

  98. Stefan Tunedal

    Very good to meet you, Jerry.

  99. What in the hell is a Conditions Guild?
    And the “famous” Guild Workshop?
    Huh? And the purpose is to help others get up the Bridge? So confusing.

  100. Jackson~excellent point re. the book!

  101. Joe Pendleton

    Karen is exactly right. All this “exec strata”, WDC, CMO, Management, etc….all this completely bloated administrative structure with amounts of policy that are about 100 times what is needed to make a successful “venture’ of Scientology. In retrospect, I don’t think 80% of the policy was ever needed. Most staff couldn’t wade through it all to decide what the relative priorities and importances are…..and as a result we have all of what Karen has listed out.

    Strategic plans, etc. Geez!!!! All it would take to make Scientology a continually expanding proposition is:

    Make Scientology available and affordable.
    Train all the staff to be expert practicing Scientologists (that means they all get trained as AUDITORS).
    Treat each other and EVERYONE with ARC and caring.
    The above includes granting beingneress and treating people with respect.
    Respect others’ self-determinism.
    Create a culture where people are NOT abused.
    Take the big money out of Scientology (and if you want to obsess about stats, have folks keep track of their cognitions and applications of them – THEIR are some stats, baby!) . And if rich Scientologsts want to get rid of their cash and give it to the Church, then use the money TO PAY STAFF (at least enough to cover rent, food, medical).
    Make up the damage to the people in the field who left to keep their own self-determinism and respect (and this means partly to award them a ton of future services).

    The above would NOT be hard to do. It would be fun and easy. And it would be successful and expand Scientology big time. I could be an exec to get this done, Marty could, Karen could, Jim Logan could and I bet practically all of you could. But I wouldn’t get involved unless it was going to be interesting, fun and exciting. I can’t waste my time anymore.

    And you know something? If all the above gets done, there’s nothing wrong with aesthetic buildings and talent shows. I LOVE aesthetic buildings. I’ve been in the Vatican and Notre Dame (and the Kremlin and the White House too) and walked the streets of Paris and Edinburgh and many beautiful cities. It’s a key out. But it ain’t THE thing, dig?

  102. Mordern-Shaman

    Hi Marty,

    One BIG CORRECTION, the Nation of Islam are NOT MUSLIMS- they do not believe in prophet Mohammad as the last messenger of GOD-which is the basis of Islam and being Muslim.

    They Nation of Islam is a hybrid of Christianity and Islamic (secular) text.They do not offer prayers like muslims instead they do Sunday services , futher, as you may the vedio, culturally they follow their fore fathers Christian foot steps.

    The back group of Nation of Islam is that, it is created to subside the effect main stream black muslims known as BILALIANs (named after a black slave and a decisiple of prophet Mohammad). They do not go to MAKKAHA to perform religious pilgrimage (compulsory for a muslim atleast once in his life time). Thats why if you go their websites and read all their materials, they never claimed themselves to be a Muslim.

    The reason for this DRAMA, they are doing right now, is that ,its dying organisation in front of 9 million mainstream muslims in USA. THEY CANNOT BUY SOMEONE THEREFORE, THEY OFFER THEMSELVES FOR SALE.

  103. Boyd~No way! Please tell me you’re kidding!

  104. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    That’s a grim and hopeless look (not to mention complicated), IMO.

    I have a problem with calling the Church of Scientology, “official Scientology.” They are not practicing “official Scientology”, so why grant them the false credence/beingness of that title? It’s a misnomer to me.

    I really don’t think the problem we’re facing is all that difficult to resolve.

    First, I believe miracles in expansion will happen when suppression is gotten off of Staff’s lines so they can wear their hats.

    The dedicated official Scientologists HERE are working on that now.

    Second, the biggest and most urgent issue, that ALL Scientologists (including church Scientologists) can work on right now to help save Scientology as a subject and create vast expansion for it, is to HAMMER IN “Keeping Scientology Working”, HARD.

    The Scientologists HERE are working on that now.

    Third, the original “by L. Ron Hubbard” works need to be restored and published.

    This area is weak. A few Scientologists are working on this now but not enough, and it hasn’t come to fruition. We need reprints of the Ron’s ORIGINAL works.

    Fourth, Scientology needs to be FREED so everybody on the planet has access to LRH’s works at no cost them. Now that the Internet exists, this is easy to do. So there is no excuse not to do it.

    The Freezone Scientologists have already done this, but it’s not safe yet.

    IMO, there’s no need to wait for new “savior” executives from the future. Each individual can take responsibility for Scientology and its future, NOW.

  105. great post Karen #1, brilliant.
    One of the reasons I have started to departure from the church is, because every time I went to the church or I got a call I just always felt like one of those bodies on the plantation in the Matrix movie. After Neo took the, I think it was the red pill, he woke up seeing the real reality, a huge plantation with bodies serving only one purpose, as energy donors. NO OTHER PURPOSE for the surviving of the machine.
    So, I just HATED being an accumulator for the machine.

  106. Maria, you are so right.
    A friend of mine send me days ago a picture found on internet by her daughter on the website from another church.
    On the picture was just a short statement:

  107. This is a very important point. The whole SO seems to be a dysfunctional system in that they have allowed the abuses to go on. If you think about a family or a workplace as being a “system” of relationships – we tend to settle into roles within the system and to learn how to respond to each other in ways that the whole works. If one person decides to change their behaviours, that can throw “out” all of the relationships, because everyone has to adjust to the new reality and therefore it can knock the whole system off kilter.

    It is extremely difficult for a dysfunctional system to change without major structural overhaul, an influx of new blood (especially leadership) and fundamental personal changes on the part of individuals who are part of the current system, so they understand what they need to do differently and have the personal commitment and skills to do it differently next time. Because there will be a next time. DM may be in a league of his own when it comes to the evils he has committed, but there are enough other bullies and power-mongers about to be able to say with some degree of confidence that the Exec Strata would have to be able to confront similar personalities to DM, yet handle them differently.

  108. OTDT-

    Overheard at a staff muster, ” The beatings will continue until morale improves.”

  109. Thanks for letting us jnow.

    I could not have imagined that they are using mortgages.

    This gets them hooked to continuous fundraising.

  110. “A river has many sources” Many have contribuited to Scientology some of who’s names will be lost in history together. It’s a sorry mess that David Miscavige managed to drive long time friends apart. What else could David Mayo have done than to dight back. He fought like a lion but even lions get tired being chased by the likes of Interpol. and the Church who still retained capable people like for instance the owner of this blog and his best friend. David Mayo’s own words on the subject.

  111. Geir Isene : “Because:

    a) No-one is trained well enough to implement it
    b) People have M/Us (misunderstandings) regarding the tech
    c) The admin tech will not work in the presence of suppression
    d) The tech has been altered (presumably by others than LRH) sufficiently to render it unworkable as a system
    e) Too few know about it – hence there are too few implementations for significant statistical data.

    … so The Admin Tech is too fragile or too complex or simply unworkable compared to other systems that can be implemented with only cursory knowledge and with stacks of M/Us and under the very common pressure and even oppression experienced in the business world.”

  112. Yes, I remember some guy from WISE LA? Came to me and demanded the AO/ASHO mailing list for SoCal to promote WISE services to. I threw him down the nearest stairwell at AO. He apparently wasn’t badly hurt as he was able limp down the rest of the way. Never heard from him again…

  113. Tony DePhillips

    You are on fire Karen!!

    I LOVE IT!!!

  114. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Maria,
    I am glad that you are posting here. You have very good integrity and are very smart. I have always enjoyed your posts.

  115. This kind of promo is a prime example of why ya gotta just let stupid people do what they’re going to do.
    Don’t argue with them—before long they’ll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

  116. Tony DePhillips

    As far as I know, they don’t allow mortgages any more. The building has to be paid in full before moving in. Some of the older Idle orgs have mortgages, that was before this new policy was put in.

  117. Tony DePhillips

    Jackson I would love to see you attend!!

    That would be a seminar I would want to go to if you were there. You would be like a bull in a china shop!!

  118. Tony DePhillips

    “Sensing Unwanted Thoughts in Others” = hysterical!!

  119. Goodness Gracious

    I watched 2 of the videos on the Valley Org site – it was all I could watch without physical reactions – but what really came home to me, maybe for the first time, was just how much of an unnusual solution the whole Idle Orgs thing is. The videos obviously took quite some time and effort to produce. There are clearly whole mechanisms and org boards solely for the purpose of regging money for the campaign; OT committees the world over have been turned into reg machines. Leaving money aside for a moment; what a MONUMENTAL waste of time and effort. If all that time was channelled into training auditors, or giving Div 6 AMHM lectures, or something that LRH actually endorsed….

    I got a pitiful begging letter from a old-timer Scientologist in an area where there has been a small struggling org for decades. This org is in a small town and has been muddling along somehow. The letter informed me that an Ideal Org was planned for the area, and my “help” was needed. (Of course I gave that help in the form of a written reply with the exact LRH references being violated). But the point is, and I know this person to be of the highest integrity and standing, and a Doctor to boot, that I felt this person had been spiritually raped. To see him sending out begging letters to public in other areas at the whim of a DM – inspired unnusual solution, when he knows in his heart that no matter how big or glitzy a building they have it aint NEVER going to be a substitute for “solving it with Scientology” like LRH said, nor is the Idle Org ever likely to be solvent in this town. What a way to screw up a person’s help flows. It also occurred to me that one of the products of the Idle Orgs “strategy” – if you can call it that – is to give Org staff a massive loss. They see their neighbouring counties acquiring a big shiny building and they think they are somehow inferior because they don’t have one. DM has created a mentality it seems that only “Ideal Orgs” are worthy. Whatever happened to St Hill sized Orgs where EVERYTHING was defined and measured in terms of DELIVERY OF SCIENTOLOGY. Grades completed, auditors made. These days the only promo I get about lower bridge services tell me I should be going to Flag for them!

    As far as I recall, the last Executive orders LRH gave to staff were LRH ED 339R and 339R-1, the famous Birthday Game issues. I don’t seem to recall any mention of buildings in these orders. I DO remember clearly how delighted LRH was to have an Exec Strata in place to help staffs with their delivery, and how thrilled he was at the formation of the Universe Corps to get staff up the Bridge. Seems these have all been airbrushed out of Scientology history.

    I did consider the Idle Orgs strat had some small merit in terms of the public that might have been turned off by small badly renovated Orgs, and indeed I had a conversation with a fence-sitter the other day. He told me about an Ideal Org where there are now “upstat public” that would never have gone into the old Org. Fine, but there’s 2 problems with that. First, I thought Scientology was for everybody, not just those who are mesmorized by flat screen TVs and new chairs. Second, there may be some “upstat public” in this Idle Org (it may have been PR), but I know for a fact that the stats are not a shadow of what they were in the “old” Org with its old chairs, and actual people talking and giving intro lectures and laughing and not sending you to the next “IAS briefing”…..

    Finally, why on earth try and place huge Org buildings over the world when the PR area control is non-existent. Isn’t this arse about face? In surveys the public have a more negative opinion about Scientology now than ever before. OSA and DM have successfully tarnished the very word Scientology to such an extent that most public wouldn’t dream of walking into an Org. I watched body routers at an Org in my area and those public that didn’t actually cross the road to avoid being approached were not even stopping.

    I reckon a good dose of contrition, a complete change at the top starting with DM and his bots and a provable end to all abusive practices would see the biggest boom in Scientology history. That would be a good gift to LRH for next March 13th.

  120. Point #3 Make an offer and seal the deal.

    Should read, in the case of the Boston Ideal Org:

    Point #3 — get the building appraised. Then pay 2 TIMES the appraised price and give the owner exactly what he was asking. 4.5 MILLION. (do a drive by if you are in the area. The neighborhood is bad.

    Point #3A — Put the existing Org (without a mortgage, I’ve heard) in Back Bay up for sale. Wait … Wait … Hope for a nimble. Hmmm, nothing. Lower price. Nothing.

    Point #3B — Do the math. Exisiting Back Bay Org BEST case scenario sells for $9 million. Renovations at new Idle Org – best case $17 million.
    Short fall — 8 Million. (New Idle Boston Org needs to be gutted, foundation redone and shored up — been vacant for DECADES)

    Point #3C – Send Boston well-heeled public TO Los Angeles, meet with Jensens, learn how to be ummmm Humanitarians?

    Point #3D – change definition of Humanitarians from people who do acts of kindness which serve to help society TO: people with at least 100K who are willing to give it to dm to continue his real estate empire and are willing to learn HOW to get others equally blind to do the same.

    Point #3E – repeat step A-E for all cities until islands of insanity are linked


  121. I think this talent show is going to be filled with CC int public, not from Valley Org. I’m probably stating the obvious, but the talent show participants, I would imagine are online’s at CC int not from Valley Org, and trying to make a name for themselves, and its probably being promoted at CC int as well to attend. And there will be a sizable turnout from CC public, and the event can be labeled a success, even though hardly anyone who is on-lines at Valley Org was in attendance. I was at Valley org in 2003 for a Goodwill tour, and I remember there were 3 staff on post, and 1 public on course during the afternoon, and I highly doubt that Valley Org is doing so well now that there is a ton of public on-lines there. If I am wrong, please feel free to let me know.

    As far as the conditions seminar, I would be surprised if they got 10 people to come, and I am being generous. I did a lot of work on events and getting people to seminars as part of my hat in the SO, and getting people to these seminars was generally a waste of time, the public in LA are called by so many different orgs, first off most Scientologists don’t answer their phone if its from the Church(easy to tell, just look for the unknown number, or sometimes on my phone a 714-60 number comes up), second off trying to convince someone to go to a seminar rather than spending a day enjoying another destimulating activity such as family time(especially since they sacrificed so much of their week to the church already), and thirdly, on Saturday’s in the LA area there are plentiful activities for any Scientologist who really wants to attend a seminar or a lecture. Most if not all orgs have something going on, I remember having to convince public, that the seminar we may be having at AOLA was more important than say ASHO, all so I can get a stat, it was all about getting the numbers so I wouldn’t get in trouble( I don’t blame anyone for that, as I violated policy by not caring for the public in front of me, just to keep myself out of ethics trouble). Karma of course got back to me many of time, as other orgs convinced public to skip out on AOs events, to attend theirs, or public would just confirm so I would stop calling. So with many different orgs calling, public are faced with making choices to which to go to, and most elect to enjoy some time off from my experiences. I know I do.

    It does seem like a BIS stat push for the seminar, and 30 dollars for something I can get practically free in my ethics book, or Vol 0, seems very steep, and the promo doesn’t even indicate to me.

    Lastly, I hope you all are having a great weekend:)

  122. Han,
    In 1987 many of the HCOBs on Solo Nots had “LRH:DM” as signatory chronology on the bottom left. Many those bulletins didn’t have the flavor of LRH writing and definitely seemed to have been compiled from notes. Very choppy. Dated 1978. My take is that Mayo compiled/wrote those based on instructions from LRH.

    I had been so thoroughly Black-PRed on Mayo that I was puzzled and alarmed so I wrote it up on Tech Query lines but never heard back despite TR 3ing it several times. I wonder if they ever changed that?

    Does anyone know, did Mayo get a big bribe to disappear? Or blackmailed? Is he alive? I wonder why he bowed out?

  123. Miscavige is so on-purpose he has his heart set on clearing the planet even if he has to kill every man, woman and child to do it.

  124. Mayo.As far what ever dealings I had with him He was an Excellent CS. I don’t care what any one else might thinks or says otherwise. And yes its a good question why and how he went
    into silence .

  125. OTDT here is a Freezone page I used for a starting point.

  126. Maria, you’re definitely not the only one who misses that sense of “home” that many of the old franchise missions had. Long gone, of course.

    Shortly after our local mission became an org, we formed one of the first OT Committees, and part of our admin scale was to foster that sense of community. Our meetings were pot-luck dinners at the homes of various members, and in addition to dissem activities we put together some events that had the sole purpose to bring people together for a good time.

    It was highly successful and great fun for a few months, and then the org informed us we were in fact part of their Div 6. We were told to have our meetings at the org, where they provided a conference room and also new programs and targets, with stats expected to be higher in each subsequent week, naturally. It all became very serious, and many of the original members who created it stopped participating.

    It’s much worse now, however. Any activity that doesn’t immediately and directly involve somebody’s wallet is “other fish to fry”, and as a result all sorts of trickery is needed to get people within striking distance of a registrar.

    Outside of the church though, here on the blogs and in various locations the “disinfected” are connecting up, and new communities are being formed. It’s a trend that I expect will rapidly increase.

  127. Tara I was talking about the deleted emails box, like with hotmail where you can undelete emails.

  128. TL,
    Very good point. I think your statement strikes right at the core reason for OT VIIIs going bonkers and losing their minds. In it’s simplicity, it really is a mind blowing OT level capable of catapulting a thetan into a higher realm.

    I blew down 32 FACE DIALS on one single cognition in session on that level.

    But…that same power can hoist the thetan by his own petard with tremendous adverse repercussion if Not-Isness or compromising of knowingness is engaged in.

    Wonder why a lot of OT VIIIs crash, burn, die, leave or just plain seem blank and stupid? Not-Isness = Stupidity. A stupid person appears blank.

    OT VIIIs smash up against the upside down whacko-squirrel-monkey-actions in the Church, become quickly shocked and innately desire to withdraw from the entheta. They have to either cripple themselves, die, become stupid or leave.

    I got cancer right after OT VIII and cured it, outside the Church and without their help.

    I left by working my way back down the grade chart and body routing myself out, moonwalking backwards.

    It’s why I refer to myself as a former Scientologist…but I’m not really. I’m just very slowly recovering.


  129. Goodness you’ve got a good handle on it. There’s org boards set up to promote Ideal orgs with videos alone. There’s limited time to get real production done and he has thousands sidetracked into non-productivity running on a treadmill. It’s an empirical fact that the Ideal org program doesn’t work. You can’t overlay a real reality with your pet theories on “bringing in upstats” or some other total bullshit and expect results.
    LRH tried it and wrote

    “…Example: Stockholm took very posh, fancy quarters. Up to that time it has been viable. The overload of expense rapidly upset the salary sum, the staff began to moonlight (work on other jobs), and the org all but collapsed until cheaper quarters were found.

    Example: Phoenix 1955. A beautiful, big building at small expense was found. It was very prominent… the full reserves of the org went into furnishing these quarters. The area had to be abandoned, losing all reserves. ..”
    HCO P/L 23 September 1970
    Quarters, Policy Regarding—Historical

    It goes on with more. Senior policy, can’t be cancelled or cross ordered, but DM and a bunch of ignorant knowbesters think they know better about the direction we need to be headed. LRH the stupid dumb idiot doesn’t realize his way is stupid, dumb and retarded so the neo-scientologists are here to set him straight.

  130. Probably why DM didn’t like De-Dinging.

  131. Did anyone else notice that on the 2nd flier it states “Dinner and dessert for sale!”.

    Yet another indication of a dying organization.

    They are charging $45 ($20 for every kid) and that doesn’t even include a meal… :/

  132. I agree with what Joe Pendleton said earlier, that there are simply WAY WAY WAY too many written policies. The brilliant basics of admin tech by LRH and others are contained in a few issues. Without philosophical understanding and real world application of those basics, the rest of the materials might as well be wall paper or ancient incomprehensible Dead Sea Scroll writings.

    1) Promote
    2) Deliver what you promise
    3) Hire good people
    4) Expand
    5) Have fun

    Only way to win.

  133. Yes agreed. There’s just too much that’s gone on for too long to expect any of them to fix it.

    DM’s turned his zone of Scientology into sort of an East Germany.

    I’ve thought that the two big things that allowed the communist block countries to undo themselves, were Perestroika and Glasnost.

    Glasnost, see it on Wikipedia, seems most relevant to what is NOT happening within DM’s official Scientology zone.

  134. Sounds right to me what you say.

    I am from a long history of being part of the admin system, and thus have more views to give up.

    Fixing the mess, I’ll let that go as a hope.

    DM’s Scientology isn’t Scientology in the scriptures sense, due to DM.

    I think analogies with the former communist countries is relevant.

    It took USSR a long time to thaw from Stalinism. And it didn’t survive as a country, it split up, and Glasnost was a key ingredient to getting USSR to reform.

    Scientology being so much easier to dominate by a DM type of person, isn’t going to allow for Glasnost, which would be a luxury of self criticism that DM doesn’t have.

    DM will have to fade out of the scene, like Stalin to USSR, and then those left standing have to have a Glasnost, and that will take time.

    yea, skip all that. I agree, do you things as you work it out.

  135. Recent dialog of Supreme Commander Miscavige leaked out of the Bunker:

    Supreme Commander Miscavige:

    “I’m going to handle this entire planet all by myself, even if I have to KILL every single one of you worthless bread gobbling turds IN ORDER TO DO IT!!!#@!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Official Worthless Bread Gobbling Assistant at Arms:


    Supreme Commander Miscavige:

    “Why haven’t you ALREADY done that?????!!@%!!!!? My dog just barked, you must have CI!! GET OUT OF MY SITE!!! Hand me that goddamn bag of money before you go!!!!”


  136. Chuck they’re too damaged if you keep saying that. It depends on what beingness is granted. Command intention and the importance of the task can bust though all that if momentum is big enough. I was complicit for years but I’m doing fine, it can’t be that I’m that special. Once the venear is torn off it’s really not that hard to see a very clear picture. JB’s just fine too. This isn’t going to be as hard as you think, I’m pretty sure. If we have orgs there’s a whole new level and threat to them right there. I know of several hardcore people on our side in the SO. I don’t know all of their actual names but I got a couple emails from OSA and they made their point clearly in our conversations. You know how quickly Thalia N. and Breanna from Int. were basically defeated and basically on my side in my phone conversations with them? It took only giving some basic facts and their willingness to unload info to me was way up. The vast majority want this to happen once they get 1/10th the info. They’re looking in Data at the stats and aren’t convinced it’s simply a matter of them not working hard enough.

  137. LOL! Sorry, IO, the “good summary” reply was poorly placed and not meant as an ack to LA being able to kick Seattle’s ass!

  138. Agreed. A glitzy farce with people pushed into a denial mindset.

    Superficial appearances and model “Scientologists” paraded for years by OSA and PR people to scholars, as proof of what Scientology is “really”, has made a lot of entrenched false impressions that will take time to undo.

    Bottom line, is getting it public, what this new independent Scientology is doing and being.

    One scholar, Jim Lewis, absolutely a year ago, was very interested in talking with the freezone and new independents. And writing about this whole new (or recurring) chapter in “official” Scientology’s history.

    Here’s Jim’s survey, and there’s an email address for him via this site:

  139. Freedom Fighter

    “Don’t argue with them—before long they’ll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

    LOL!! So true!

  140. Goodness Gracious

    Yeah well, that wheel thing – what a bunch of crap. Who would make it round? It needs to be re-invented straight up and vertical!

  141. Tony DePhillips


  142. Those 5 things are really common bussines practice. An that note one of Hubbards sources for Scientology’s Finance Policies seems to be this book published back in the day.

    Carnival Showman P.T. Barnum’s The Art of Money Getting.”

  143. crashingupwards

    RJ, Darla’s response to you is accurate. WISE was formed on directives from LRH to keep Org staff from being used as a labor pool and distracted. There was an eval done and there were ‘Whys” and “whos”. It was manned by SO members at Flag initially. Their mission made sense, from reigning in out-ethics scn businesses from getting bad PR which would rub off on the Church to keeping Staff focused on their posts and field folks from using the Orgs for all sorts of promotions which benefitted the public, not the org. They had the power to keep you out of session if there were outstanding issues they had with you. They also went after the field auditors (independents) who were not giving anything back to the orgs(money) and attempted to get them paying a percentage to WISE, using the copyright and trademark arguments. The same with Scn businesses. To the extent they started to focus on GI the initial purpose became just ONE of their “products”, not the sole focus. But lets face it, Org staff often need to moonlight. Working for other scientologists make sense. More often than not its not a destructive situation. In fact it enables one to stay on staff. Even well run boomings orgs never paid a living wage. Only missions came close.
    WISE was on the lookout for anything that might cut the income lines to the Church or the staffs effort to increase income.
    One can understand why some of their actions would seem to belong to the GO. It seems to me that the GO could have and should have handled all of this. WISE actually assisting scn businesses with green on white consulting and PR expansion of the tech would also seem to be justifyable under the SOCO aganda of the GO, like ASI and Narconon, etc. The SO should not have had to get involved. But obviously the GO was “distracted” with the raids,etc. And the fact that the situation existed meant the GO had failed to prevent it.

  144. I think the first add is quite cool, also reasonably priced. Very nicely laid out. The issue I do have is that proceeds from the Donations go to the OTC instead of the org. On one hand this seminar is supposed to assist people to move up the bridge, on the other, buildings are being financed. Non-alignment of purpose, since buildings have little to do with moving anyone up the bridge. Non-sequiteur.

    The second add is very poor, because it doesn’t tell me what its all about. It’s in a chapel, has judges and people are being served. Doesn’t tell me what’s going on. Maybe they are trying to pull the “enquiry” string.

    If they were just fun events for the field, then OK. But if yet another angle to crush-reg people, then these ads would be very hoaky indeed.

    The future of Scientology lies in the Field, not the Church. Its not reformable. As soon as DM is gone, another carefully trained Bot will take his place, as most CO$ brown-nose OTs would insist on it.

    The entire bridge can done in the field without all the bullshit, intimidation reggings, high prices, so why the Hell would I want to fix something I’d rather not have anything to do with?

    I don’t care if CO$ makes it big time, or goes belly up, it’s neither here nor there to me. Lots of people now training in the field, and for the most part, its pretty standard too.

  145. I’m sick of seeing the huge outpoints. People in the church aren’t going to listen unless we impinge with new outside orgs. I’d like to know who has disagreements with this being the next step and why. If this can be clarified that we aren’t just doing general enlightenment of ourselves and others reading but not posting, then action can result. So lets hear some disagreements with this statement and flesh it out. I’d try to stay calm in my responses and not get 1.1:

    “People in the church aren’t going to listen unless we impinge with new outside orgs.”

    Is it legally impossible to do this? We should all know the exact barriers if there are any. If it’s too horrible to even talk about then it’s better we all know. Some will then do it anyways because they know all the factors. This is a good idea in my opinion, to have this conversation openly right now because I’m feeling an urgency pretty much every waking moment. Lets get a bunch of things squared away regardless of the outcome and take the maybe’s out of the way. I don’t care about niceness or anything like that, I’m talking about honesty and no vagueness. No buddhaness or vague super-overarching philosophies that in a vague way cancel that we need orgs and not just field auditors right now or we’re all completely fucked.

  146. Chuck

    I’m sorry man but you totally lost me somewhere in all that.

    My only comment is that it seems to me that we have a form of Watch Dog Committee right here with some highly trained and effective senior management and tech people contributing to this blog and others like it. Call it “whistle blowing”, call it “getting ethics in” on the DM and his bastardization of Scientology, call it “delivering REAL Scientology in the field”, call it applying KSW, call it what you will, but it is happening and it might well be the only chance Scientology and the future of LRH Tech has right now.

    I feel that trying to correct and repair and rejuvenate the “official” church is a fine idea but it will likely take years to accomplish once the CoB is ousted. It will take many years to get the general public’s confidence back. In the meantime we need real Scientology being applied in volume. I think the Independent field is the best avenue for that at this time, or maybe ever. It is where I put my support.


  147. Boyd~I’m shocked about the bikini car wash. I wish they would send a request for that out everywhere…go for it then. Make my day! BANG!

  148. OTDT~VWD and I’m sooooo glad you made it!

  149. This thread is so fun to read !
    Insousiance at his best !
    Want more of it.

  150. A real fund raiser for St. Bernard Project – helping Gulf Coast residents come back and adjust, rebuilding their homes, etc. now the 5th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. Pepsi is giving the winning orgs $250,000 to help fund their projects. Voting ends on August 31st. St. Bernard Project is in the top 2 for winning. 🙂

  151. martyrathbun09

    Go ahead, it’s a free country.

  152. martyrathbun09

    Reging people to go to scholars is about the least effective way for scholarship to take place. If they were serious scholars they’d be knocking on our doors.

  153. Tony DePhillips

    You missed your calling unless you are a comedian…

  154. Tony DePhillips

    They use the word guild to conjure up old school craftsmanship. It is just PR bullshit to mask incompetence. The “famous” guild will be infamous one day.

  155. Tony DePhillips

    Nice idea. I think the problem is that nobody wants to be the one to go up against the church’s legal dept and potentially get hammered financially. Do you think this is unreal?

  156. CU,

    I’m not disputing Darla.

    I was merely pointing out that in theory it may have been a separate activity under C/S 6 Diana but in practice it ended up under C/S 7 Mary Sue.

    As I was saying was that pretty much all Field Activities were if not controlled at least supervised by the GO under SoCo.

    The GO didn’t cease to function after the raids.

    Nor did their antagonism toward those “carpetbaggers” in the SO muscling in on what they considered their turf cease either.

    Anyone who was there knew that the GO and the SO used to fight like cats and dogs.

    Also I never wrote anything against the Staff’s necessity to Moonlight as covered under the Personnel series.

    My point was that various “Scientologists” took advantage of this fact and hired Scientology staff so they didn’t have to pay them a decent wage.

    However when the SO assumed full control of WISE. It became a Frankenstein’s monster.

    WISE may have initially been instituted to put ethics in on the business community but it was perverted by the elitist fat cats who took control of it and used it as a means of seizing control of the organization.

    This is obvious because the Sea Org under Miscavige caters to nothing other than this elite deviance.

    For instance the reason for these “Ideal Orgs” are so they have posh quarters to bring their elite friends to when they’re not committing white collar crimes or playing footsie with the Intelligence Community or the Military.

    This is probably one of the reasons that they shut Kingsley Wimbush down aside from the fact he squirreled was also the fact that he had many people consider what subtle external suppression they had on their lines.

    The truth is that the game is much bigger than just Miscavige.

    There are people like the Jensens, the Acuntos and others that keep this man in power.

    Where the hell do you think he gets all his funding from?

    To me it’s a rhetorical question.

    Since his biggest contributors are for the most part sleazy WISE members.

  157. Realize where all the “cuts”flow to . GFollow the money. The “scholars” are just props.

  158. Boyd H. – wonderful idea. A bit heavy on the vagueness side but I hear you.

    Get that org open. Do whatever it takes. Since you probably live somewhere, why not start as we did in the VERY old days. At your home.

    Once you get enough PCs and students, rent a place.

    It grows organically from there.

    I would hate to think we are all completely f***d

    Or you start immediately by renting a building. You’ll have to pay for it, just as LRH did in the beginning but think how you are stepping beyond the vague
    la-la land philosophies you mention.

    Love to seeing your spunk and willingness to be total cause.


  159. Cat Daddy,
    Thanks for the links on Mayo. I’ve read that one already as well as every other reference to Mayo I could find. I’m puzzled as to his thought process on bowing out. Maybe someone knows, maybe not. Could be that only Mayo knows.

  160. Boyd,

    The question is IMHO:

    What does it take to establish an Org that delivers courses and auditing successfully outside the existing Orgs?

    3 main barriers to be resolved;

    1. Legal rudiment – ironclad legally documented rights
    2. Financial rudiments – startup money until delivery covers expenses
    3. Technical rudiments – paid or volunteer personnel skilled to deliver

    Until the above are you can work on getting in KSW point 1-6 for yourself by getting highly trained and processed.

    P.S. By the way I was thinking about this and your previous posts on the subject prior to your post today, kinda scary.

  161. OTater/GaryLerner

    SP-ness. I haz it! Mwaah!

  162. OTater/GaryLerner

    Hi Jerry!,

    Welcome to the best place on earth!

  163. And, of course,
    11a; Continue fundraising in order to pay the Int Landlord RENT for a building that the local public have now totally purchased and paid for.
    11b; continue fundraising to cover upkeep and cleaning services, and essentials such as toilet paper, electricity, water, etc.


  164. Boyd,

    So I am guessing that you have seen the steps to setting up an org above and in LRH policies on exactly that. You see it isn’t “over there”. If you want one just do it man. Do not accuse others of not doing it. If you say where you are and how too contact you, others of like mind may get in touch and you would have the kernel of an Org already. Organize them, hat them, do whatever you want. If you really want one then build one. You can make it exactly the way you want it to be, and if you are right in your actions and intentions, it should flourish.

    If, however, that is the only reason why you want these Orgs, and not for the purpose of freeing beings or enhancing the freedom of beings, then they are doomed to failure. I cannot see for a moment however, that it will change anyone’s opinion on “the inside”. I do not think that Orgs outside of Scientology is what they are waiting for before they can see the outnesses that they are currently embroiled in, or party to.


  165. Tara,
    Thank you.

  166. I shoulda mentioned, all you have to do is click to vote for the St. Bernard Project, no donation by you. Pepsi donates the monies. Interesting point that the SBP uses peer-to-peer counseling, gets unemployed Gulf fishermen to help rebuild (along with volunteers). True community action making true physical universe change for others, enhancing and bettering their lives. What my “church” should do.


    Unedited transcript of briefing by Supreme Commandant Miscavige leaked from Int Base:


    “OK…we need MORE !!#$% MONEY! Everybody knows money is POWER! We need more power RIGHT #@!$% NOW!! The planet’s falling apart and I’m not going to let you worthless breadgobbling suppressives stop ME!!! WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THAT??”

    MINION #1:

    “Well sir, we’re exerting extreme amounts of pressure down the lines and monitoring the stats by the microsecond. None of us has slept in a month and we’re on it nonstop with no other thoughts.”



    MINION #1: (eyes widening)

    “You ordered me here, Sir.”



    (Dog barks in background. Supreme Commander jumps up and grabs Minion #1 by throat and kicks groin, spits in face, boxes ears, punches face, pokes in eyes, grabs around neck, throws to the floor, rips buttons off shirt one by one)

    SUPREME COMMANDER: (wipes blood off his knuckles with monogramed French handkerchief)

    “Look what you did to my knuckles! Get him out of here NOW before I unleash Louis Farrakan on every single one of you son’s of bitches! He’s got the brand new ISLAMATOLOGY SUPER SEVERE REALITY ADJUSTMENT RUNDOWN that he and I just finished drawing up! It’s 100% based on the works of LRH from confidential advices in my safe. But believe ME, you do NOT want to do this rundown. Now, where was I?”

    MINION #2:

    “Money, sir…money and power.”


    “WWWWWHHHAAAAAAT???!!!#% WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MONEY YOU #@!$$% IDIOT???????? (spittle flying as he lisps heavily)

    MINION #3, MINION #4, MINION #5: (silent with blank looks)

    MINION #6: “Your Exalted Highness of All, we have a new program in the works called GUILDS. First in a series of new clubs, associations and seminars. Out-sourced, just like you wanted. Fits right in with our fancy new titles and all. It’ll get more bodies in the shop and they can be hoovered, upsold, pressured for responsibility. Fits right in with your expansion plan, sir. ”


    MINION #6:

    “Yes sir! Absolutely sir! This is 100% Command Intention. Your idea, sir, thank you.”


    “Verifying the points we discussed on this:

    They don’t have to actually train, right? ‘Cause you know how hard that shit is and we don’t have time! The planet’s falling apart for chrissakes! No time for training or goddamn @#$%!! QUAL!! I put all those @$#!#!! drill packs together MYSELF and EVERYONE IS STILL BLIND!!!!!!!! So fuck ’em! Change in strategy. You know the plan:

    SNAZZY POSTERS! ASSES IN THE SEATS! QUICK SEMINARS! TITLES! TITLES! People go for titles and status! Guild Members! That’s got legs! New Guild levels and membership fees! And we can just suck those fuckers so dry, it’ll be like lipo-suction on a skeleton when we’re through with them. Aah! They’re just like grass anyway. Mow them bastards down to their roots!

    ALL MINIONS IN UNISON: (now standing at attention and saluting)


    SUPREME COMMANDANT: (flexing biceps and winking at dog)

    “Alright, alright, alright. Next time I’d like a few more Very’s before the well done. A few more, huh? Do I deserve perhaps a few MORE very’s? For personally saving all beings in the universe! ME! Well, Tom helps, Tom helps. OK. NOW GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY OFFICE AND IMPLEMENT THIS PROGRAM IMMEDIATELY IF NOT SOONER! I’VE GOT A PLANET TO BUY! START! START! START!” (bark! bark! bark!)

    End of Transcript

  168. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Perhaps some creative Scientologists can do an impinging video like this one “I’m a Vaccine Zombie!” (except ours would be “I’m a CoB Zombie!”)

    Watch the above video. It will likely crack you up as much as it does me, yet it’s speaks Truth.

  169. To -RJ and all those others looking at the initial start up of WISE. I worked with LRH to get the original done. There were two secret projects being run in 1978 == Oscar and Gertrude, very few people have ever heard of them. Oscar was to find the corrupt and distracting influences in the Orgs, and Gertrude was for the Guardian’s office — So, I bet no one from the GO knew about this.
    In fact very few people did. Initially World Institute of Scientology Enterprises,
    take a look at those words. Initially is did NOT contain any business consulting.
    It was to be manned by only SO members and Sepertate the Scientologists who were Business owner from having influence on the orgs. Making sure Moonlighting was kept in etc. Now the Gertrude programme found outside influences, right there on the manor grounds which was run by two Snr GO Execs (don’t remember who), but right there on the grounds they would hire staff to moonlight with them and sometimes they lost their 2.5 training time cause they had to work more at the Snack Bar, or whatever is was called.

    L. Ron Hubbard did not like seeing ex-staff Scientologist – that he had trained, out there making a lot of money and hiring his currently training staff. He saw it as losing his money — Like if you went to a college you should pay a percentage of what you make for the rest of your life. He wanted that money from these Scientology businesses, because he wanted their business disputes off org lines, he wanted them watched to make sure they were not violating “Moonlighting Policies”. “Not One Thin Dime for Wollersheim”, believe it or not Larry was the first to be asked. He politely declined. and then we were off to the races. He had no idea that he was truly being asked by LRH, and LRH did not appreciate the “NO”. So, we were off to the races with Larry Wallersheim.
    Now LRH was asking for 10% of the gross of the companyies and I attempted to explain that it should be the net because if a supermarket nets 3% of their gross, they are doing really well. That didnt’ go over too well he still wanted 10% of the gross from all these companies that were run by scientologists and any out ethics business matters they had between themselves, would go on WISE lines, not Org Lines. As an afterthought, Mike Smith had a business consulting company in San Francisco. On his own origination and for several years he had been sending out 10% of his gross in exchange for LRH
    helping him withi advice for individual clients ( they weren’t written by LRH, but really by Pers Comm) It truly was an afterthought because a bus9iness consulting firm was not taking money or staff from his orgs.

    It ended up being the core and largest money maker for Scientology. Instead of applying the Muliple Viewpoint System to their Consulting Sterling had the owners fly to LA — illegally giving an office and putting on their routing form a visit to the local registrar. If the guy knew what was wrong with his business he would not be coming to you. But, very soon it became a cash cow for Flag and other Scientology Orgs.
    And I do believe it was in 1988 when the WISE Business consultants were actually given a statistic of # of people and $ of money sent to Flag or local Orgs. I was quite aware that mixing a religion in a work environment was not legal in America, and that had not been my purpose anyway — so that’s when I quit WISE. SMI, originated with me receiveing a copy of a telex from LRH to the GWW, asking her to forward him some pictures of the Franchise Office WW. His answer was that GWW had the Franchise Network in an OutHouse,
    and this is why they were dipping into his reserves to pay for the lawyers of the GO guys. Per Policy the 10% every franchise mailed in to MOWW was supposed to be used for the protection of Scientology, meaning the legal fees which were now coming out of what he considered his pocket.
    Additionally the corporate restructure of the Franchises had to be changed because and written at that time, LRH could have been personally liable for any illegalities.
    So, there you go Project Oscar and Gertrude. Very few people knew of them, but they changed and affected a lot of people.

  170. Its sick to read this stuff from an UnEdited Breifing from Int Base. posted by OTDF in response to Tara 29th of August 2010

  171. Wayne/Safe~ That video is AWESOME! Thanks!

  172. Hi Nancy,

    Very interesting. Especially since I was sent on one of the first observation missions to discover the outside influences INTO the orgs. I went to all the various big businessmen in LA. Kenny Gerbino (who was former CC/Axiom staff) and became a big financial consultant in the LA area. John ? (can’t remember his name but former CC AG, who had a vending machine company IN the orgs, hiring SO staff to maintain them). Steve Lederman, who first came up with freeze dried cal-mag. Etc.

    It was a very confidential mission. The upshot of which eventually became WISE – headed by Roger Barnes. Who later became unhappy/disaffected and left.

    Had no idea you were on the line. I don’t even remember where I was posted when I did this mission …

    Memories 🙂 (oh, how they can fade) …


  173. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    You’re welcome, Tara.

    Though Mike Adams (aka “The Health Ranger”) may not be in Scientology, he sure is OT and is an example of what just one OT can do to impinge to wake people up. (Since I made the earlier post, 1,500 more people watched his music/cartoon video. His video is going “viral”, no pun intended. ha!)

    We have plenty of content for a cartoon video like the above:

    1) Cartoon of squirrelled New Slant on Life book called

    A New Slant On MEST
    Published by Squirrel Technology Center

    2) A meter with DM on the cans and it rock slamming

    3) David Miscavige beating on Management Staff

    4) Demo of Idle Orgs

    5) Zombies at an IAS event

    6) Reg’s doing their thing

    Let one’s imagination roll! I’m sure some artists and good writers can think of much more than this to make one of these videos. It could be done in a funny way, yet tell the Truth about what’s going on.

  174. Hi Nancy again —

    I think your memory is fading too! 🙂

    LRH’s telex to GWW wasn’t that MOWW was in an outhouse but in a quanset hut.

    Or is my memory fading THAT badly.

    One thing that isn’t clear — you mention – and “that is when I quit WISE”.

    Help me out here — how could you quit WISE? Weren’t you A/CS 6 at the time?


  175. WH– I was CS-6 at the time the first mission was fired off for WISE and Diana was on it, she was pulled off of the full time training she had been awarded.
    At that time, like I said, it was to get the outside influences off the Org.
    I dont remember who did the Obs for the Gertrude project, but finding the snack bar ON SH property, hiring staff, sometimes keeping them so they were late for post or got no study time. I think that canteen was owned by Herbie Parkhouse and David – the head of PR.

    The missions were doing well, better than the orgs and those of us managing the missions wanted to get them perhaps to take on some of their successful actions. And the missions were skipping the orgs and sending them directly to Flag, so it wasn’t that the missions were not exchanging, they got a ton of people on Flag lines —- but they bypassed the org, most were embarrassed by their Org. They had no toilet paper etc.

    When I was assigned to the RPF on April Fools day 1979, the plan was to revert to a nine division org board and there would be an Aide in charge of these kind of out reach activities. And again, there were no Business Consulting firms other than Mike smith in San Francisco, it was actually put in as an after thought and ended up being the cash cow. After April 1st I got bits and pices of data of when and where things went.
    And then I was off to the land of celebrities.

    WH – please contact me privately –

  176. WH — re memories, I do remember him specifically saying out house and he was furious at the Guardian’s office because all their legal fees were supposed to be paid by franchise 10% — yet they kept dipping into LRH’s pocket.

    Sorry dropped out time on the When I quit Wise, I left SO in 1982, but from 1982-1986 I worked in espionage for RTC and then OSA. in 1986 I was a Free Public Scn, and I worked as a Wise Consultant. So it was much later, like 1995 when they changed WISE’s Purpose to Getting people and money onto the bridge and that is when I stopped being a WISE consultant and sold my business.

    Whole lot of time and policy and org board changes in the middle of those two time period. Sorry.

    Also did you do your confid mission in the Fall of 79, cause I remember going on an “obs Mission” but there were two of us, which was weird, and we had to type all our telexes ourselve, it was from over the rainbow, CMO or special office. That mission mainly found J.Kember as the why for driving the UK off source….
    But that was the weirdest, and most secretive mission I’ve ever done. We were specifically told to just walk into GOWW and walk around –that went over well (LOL)

  177. Nancy – I honestly can’t remember when I did that obs/confidential mission to LA but I did it alone. Later into the mission, someone joined me but I haven’t a clue who it was. I was starting to spin with all the confidentiality. I too had to type my own telexes in some strange pre-arranged code I had worked out with Alan Buchanan and Horwich.

    And they couldn’t remember the “code” … it was very bizarre.

    I frankly don’t remember if this was ALSO the mission where I found one of the key mission holders as THE person who could splinter off scientology due to his lines into the celebs. That was a question LRH had specifically asked — WHO could splinter off Scn.

    Will email you from my hushmail account.


  178. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Marty, would you set the reply level for comments, 3 levels deep please, as suggests here?

    It would create less confusion in threads, especially in the email subscriptions. That would be awesome. 🙂

  179. I think you got this right – Contrition with a capital C, and very massive public contrition from the top down at that, including massive refunds to all donors.

    Then, huge signs at each org:

    These would be a small start towards redemption of the CoS.

  180. Well, it’s been done before. That’s how some towns and villages in Vietnam were “saved” from falling into ‘enemy hands’.

  181. What next? “Ideal Hooters”? “Ideal Risque Cafe?” “Ideal Deja Vu”?
    Ideal Lap Dance events “for adult donors only”? How about a paid “Ideal Dating” site? Ideal Outcall services? (very discreet, for Hollywood celebs and big donors only.But with secret videocams….). Or, maybe some of these are already being done on the QT?

  182. As regards the Missions skipping the orgs and going straight to Flag.

    I was a public Scientologist back then. No one at the Mission ever told me not to go to the org. But Flag, ASHO and AOLA certainly did. Not in so many words, but they put on these awesome events with great speakers and pushed that Flag was the MECCA of standard tech, ASHO the ONLY place where one TRULY learned to be a great auditor and AOLA was the HOME of the OT, where all was high, high ARC and fantastic results.

    The Class 4 org was thoroughly invalidated in comparison. Add no toilet paper and add the gloomy tone level when you visited there and add the terrible locations of some of those orgs (like right on skid row in some cases) and Flag, ASHO and AOLA were clearly “the only way to go.” Plus these tours had amazing regges. Man, were they good! If there was any money to be found, they’d sniff it out. Finally, these regges also did something we LOVED them for — they would make up these awesome packages of auditing and training — they’d always leave the grades auditing and lower training money with the Mission, and most of time take only the money for the services the Mission could not deliver.

  183. martyrathbun09

    Wayne, it was on three. I changed it to six. Is that what you wanted? More comments to threads allowed? If so, tell me how this new adjustment works. If not, tell me I screwed up.

  184. I think the comment by VALKOV 31August 2010 6.22am is
    worth making a remark on .For all its worth.
    The Current Managment be under Reconstruction and Open for New Leadership as the current needs exposing the on going Investigating and made known openly for DM’s HIGH CRIMES .

  185. Tony DePhillips

    Off the hook funny!!!

  186. Oh, and maybe Iraq and Afghanistan, too? “Saving them.”

  187. crashingupwards

    WH, your so right. The boston org was on Beacon st and has outstanding back views of the charles river over to cambridge from the large windows in the courseroom. Even had an auditorium. Classy building. Bought for peanuts back in the 70’s. The new location is sketchy. And there was no need to do it. No valid need.

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